The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-16 00:00:00

ton
t'rb 4 I

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock.

RAILWAY COMMITTEES

(TILES DAY.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.
THE YOB= AND NonwAY n riZIDLAND
RAILW.

The Select Committee appointed to investigate this case assem-
bled to-day, at three o'clock, the Marquis of Clanricarde in the
chair. The Bill being unopposed, the Committee declared it to
have passed. The Noble Chairman will report to the House.
The Standing Orders Committee, Lord Shaftesbury, Chairman,
also assembled at three o'clock, and resolved themselves into a
Committee on unopposed Railway Bills.
The following Bills were then declared to have passed the Com-
mittee :—The Bedford and London Railway; the Shrewsbury, Os-
westry, and Chester Railway; the Manchester and Leeds Railway ;
the Burnley, Oldham, and Haldham Railway ; the Berks
and Hants Railway; the Lowestoff Railway and Harbcur ; the
Kendal and Windermere Railway; the North British Railway;
the Yarmouth and Norwich Railway ; and the London and
Greenwich Railway.
The Committee then adjourned till one o'clock to-morrow.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP A.
SOUTH-EASTERN LINE.

The Committee having met this day, at the usual hour,
Mr. Sergeant WRANGUAM proceeded to the cross-examination of
Mr. Bidders, but the evidence given contained no material point
that had not been previously published.
The CHAIRMAN observed that General Lord Bloomfield was
present, and wished to make a correction as to a part of his
evidence which had been misunderstood.
General Lord Bloomfield then pointed out a mistake in a copy of
his evidence which had been forwarded to him, and in which a
statement, made with reference to the South-Eastern, had been
applied to the North Kent line.
Mr. Bidders' cross-examination was then continued—He spoke
at some length as to the number of junctions formed by the
South-Eastern and the number formed by the North Kent line.
Mr. ROADE observed that he had a communication to make to
the Committee, and requested that they should retire for the
purpose.
The CHAIRMAN assented, and the Committee accordingly retired
for some time. _ _ _

On the return of the members of the Committee,
Mr. WRANGIILM proceeded to examine kr. Bidders as to some
portions of the proposed line which were not included in the esti-
mates of the Company, and also as to a level crossing
which must be made by the proposed line over the now existing
Croydon (locomotive) line, and which might interfere with the right
of way of the Croydon Company. At Deptford it would be ne.
ces,ary to throw four streets into one. This street would have
150 trains passing in 15 hours; se that 10 times in each hour the
gates must be shut, and no person could pass through the street.
This would produce no great inconvenience, as the short trains would
pass in one minute, and the long ones in three minutes, and the traffic
of the street was very small and unimportant. A large number of
houses must be removed at Deptford, but they would be houses
of very small value, and which would be much better removed.
At Dartford Creek the line would cross a swing- bridge. He did
not think there would be any danger from such a bridge in this
instance, as the creek was at that point very narrow, like
a canal. In general a brick bridge was preferable to a
swing bridge. In entering London the South-Eastern line
would pass through the Deaf and Dumb Asylum, where
the noise could give no annoyance to the inhabitants.—(A
laugh.) It was necessary to pass through the Asylum in order to
avoid two churches. It was impossible to enter London without
some such inconvenience.
After some evidence on uninteresting points connected with the
levels of the proposed line at Chatham, Rochester, and Stroud, and
with some inaccuracies in the plans of the South-Eastern Corn.
pany, the Committee adjourned at five minutes to four o'clock.

GROUP GG.
GMILSGOIW MNCTION ZLAILVJAY.

The Committee on this group re-assembled at twelve, but it was
nearly one o'clock before business was commenced, owing to the
absence of Mr. Muntz and Viscount Grimston. At the latter
hour Mr. Muntz entered, having but just arrived in town from
Birmingham, and the proceedings of the day were commenced by
Mr. Hope calling, on the part of Mr. Campbell of Blytheswood, one
of the opponents,
Mr. J. Kyle, a land-surveyor in Glasgow, who was examined
as to the nature and difficulties of the strata through which the
tunnel beneath the Blytheswood property would pass, and the
effect which the termini in Bothwell-street would haveupon the
surrounding valuable property. The witness exhibited a model of
the newer portions of the city where the proposed line would inter-
sect them. The witness added, that at a certain depth the pro-
moters would come at quicksands, which, he thought, would pre-
sent insuperable difficulties to the progress of the works.
Mr. J. Collie, architect, was examined, and after giving evidence
in corroboration of that given by the previous witness, added that
the valuation of property made by himself showed that the pro-
moters' estimates were 100,000/. below what they ought to be.
Mr. W. Broome, builder, Glasgow, had been extensively em-
ployed on the Blytheswood estate. Had examined the bores
made by Mr. Keyle with the view of testing the quality of
the soil. He found that a considerable proportion of it was
running sand, or quicksand, and his experience told him
that such a foundation was the very worst that could be had
for building purposes of any kind. He considered that Mr.
Collie's valuation was a most reasonable one, and not in any degree
too high. That valuation would be some 100,000!. above that
furnished by the promoters.
Mr. John Bennie had heard the evidence given by his friends
Messrs. Collie and Mr. Broome, and he fully concurred in their
valuation.
Mr. J. Hayman, carter, in Glasgow, had been in the habit of
carting for a considerable period to the most considerable merchants
of Glasgow, and his general rate was is. a ton. Few goods were
stored in Glasgow, and the through traffic would therefore be of a
very limited character. The goods' managers at the railway
stations were in error when they quoted the charges at 2s. 6d.
per ton.
Another witness, called to corroborate the preceding evidence,
was under examination when the Committee adjourned.

GROUP K.
WYNDHAM AND DEHEHAM =NE.
The Committee on this line resumed this morning at the usual
hour, the Members present being Viscount Sandon (Chairman),
J. L. Ricardo, R. Cobden, and W. Martin, Esqs.
Mr. Pare, examined by Mr. CALVERT—Has been engaged to draw
up an account of the present traffic on the road between Wyndham
and East Dereham, and a sketch of the probable accession upon
the construction of a direct line of railway between those towns.
The entire revenue which he anticipated for that line would be
24,9191., while that for the circuitons line by Wyndham would
not exceed 19,4891. The former would perform the journey by
travelling over fifteen miles in forty-five minutes, and the latter
twenty-two miles in one hour, six minutes, leaving a balance of
twenty-one minutes in favour of the former. Has examined the
traffic tables put in by the other side, and finds that the increase
anticipated by them between Wyndham and Dereham is 50 per cent.,
while between Attleborough and Diss it is rated at 100 per cent.
upon the very same data. The population of Norwich, by the cen.
sus of 1831, was 56,134, and in 1841, 62,341. being an increase
of only 2 per cent., while in the ten years between 1821 and 1831
the increase was more than 21 per cent.
Cross-examined by Mr. GIRDEN—When he calculated 626
journeys travelled on an average by seven passengers, he had sup-
posed they would be both pair and four-horse carriages. He had
generally allowed one or two travellers per gig as likely to come upon
a rail if constructed, but had in all his calculations deducted 50 per
cent. from the present amount of transit. Has thrown aside
several of the averages which he might legitimately have included,
and has adopted the principle of halving the average of transit on
a road for any three weeks in the year. Thus at one gate
the assumed two.thirds of 2,080 passengers who posted on
the read is taken in the tables at 1,560, and by gigs
the same proportion is taken of the 35,568 observed
travelling. Has no doubt but that the passengers through
Marlingford would avoid, rather than adopt, the line by Wyndham
to Norwich. Considers the average of 2d. per traveller as a very
fair rate to name. On the London and Birmingham the fare is
rather more than that, and on the Colchester line 21/2d. is the
average price per mile.
Reexamined by Mr. JAMES—Has tested his calculations by the
precedent of other lines, and the result has proved his complete
accuracy. There is no analogy between this and the Great
Western, Colchester, and London and Birmingham lines, named
as criterions of traffic by Mr. Girden.
Mr. William Gravatt, civil engineer, examined by Mr. JAMES—
Was engaged last year in the month of September to survey the
direct line between Norwich and Dereham. Has estimated the
cost of the main line at 140,9371., the New Mills branch at 10,7571.,
and the Fakenham branch at 26,1701., making a total
of 177,8641. The distance of the main line is 15 miles 8 chains,
of the New Mills Branch, 1 mile and 17 chains, and of the Faken.
ham branch 2 miles 46 chains. The land, the cuttings, earth-
works, embankments and bridges, are surveyed for a double line, into
which the rail could be converted at any period whatever.
The gradients are 1 in 450 for half a mile, 1 in 257 for three
miles and a furlong, I in 285 for one mile five furlongs, 1 in 360
for one mile three furlongs, 1 in 917 for six furlongs, the ruling
gradient being lin 300. Proposes to have a terminus at the
New Mills, in order to obtain the traffic now coming up from
Yarmouth by the canal navigation. The continual stoppages on
the Dereham and Wyndham line will entail a delay of five mi-
nutes at each station.
Cross-examined by Mr. ANDREWS, Q.C.—Has been engaged
in the construction of the line in the Thames Tunnel, the
Bristol and Exeter as far as Taunton, a distance of forty.
five miles, and a large proportion of the Great Western.
Took down some btidges on the Bristol and Exeter line, after
having erected them. Thinks six at least required this alteration.
The causes of the bridge being raised was the change of gauge
adopted on the line, an order having been made by the House
of Lords that the gauge must be the same throughout
both on the Great Western and Bristol and Exeter Railway. Has
also been en !aged in the Direct Northern and Churnet Valley
lines, neither of which have yet passed the standing orders.
There are sixteen level crossings, for which 2,0881. has been esti-
mated, or 1301. per crossing.
By Lord SAN DON—A gate-keeper will be placed upon every crossing,
acting also as policeman on the line, at a salary of 501. per annum ;
a cottage would be required for each, requiring 2501. for con-
struction.
Cross-examination continued—The number of bridges across
the line will be 10, at an average cost of 5411. each.
Has estimated 1,7871. for the construction of sixteen culverts, and
takes 101. per ton for rail, and 71. for chains. The worst gradient
on the main line is 1 in 55, five chains and a half in length,
but by an arrangement with the Eastern Union this
objectionable inclination will be avoided. Has a plan
and section also for avoiding the crossing of the road
on a level. Does not know whether St. Stephen's-street, in Nor.
wich will be considered a level. The steepest level on the New
Mills branch is lin 48. Contemplates a traffic of corn, flour, and
coals on that rail, and proposes to work that distance of a tons
and eight chains by horse power. Calculates thirty.three tons
a-day will be enabled to be drawn by each horse,
the th
whole e expen
distance.
se being
per ton nett, Is. 3.loths of a penny on
The cost for keeping the horse will be 3s. 10d. a-day.
including the driver at 12s. a-week. The draught of
a horse up the incline would be 4 3-10 tons gross,
and eleven journeys could be thus made daily. The equivalent
about 21 tons gross. A
weight on a level would be
similar incline was on the Merthyr and Cardiff line,
which he had laid out, and where
ichThothelarigreoant
a great advantage
cwoaus I d
wi
th experiencedeaseb
eby r a
ttrhiesteep
carried
to
cutting on the direct line would contain 239,4cubicc yards.
the descent,
latter
doinstriwcth.
competency
Re-examined by Mr. James—No eng
was ever attributed to him for the taking down the bridges
on the Bristol and Exeter line. The level crossings do not inter-
fere with any turnpike-road whatever, but merely intersect lanes
and other unimportant pathways. The gradient ofl rsin 48 was
put down because it came out in subtraction, 250 being at first
estimated as the ruling gradient ; but that can be at a future period
wholly rectified.
By r. RICADO—The putting down lin 48 as the gradient
M R
By a subsequent
was merely an oversight in making the survey.
arrangement, and altering the average gradients, the difficulty will
be altogether obviated, and the short distance now with the steep
incline become almost a perfect level.
Mr. Brough examined by Mr. JAMES-1S the assistant of Mr.
Locke, C.E. Has heard the evidence of the last witness respecting
the objectionable gradient of lin 48. That difficulty can however
be overcome by raising or depressing the level of the line to the
extent of a foot.