The Sun.
London, England, 1842-08-05 00:00:00

hours, and when I took him to the stable to dress him, the
other servant, Sherman, pointed out to me that the horse was
lame, and I observed that he flinched when he was made
to move from one side to the other. I immediately informed
Mr. Dilly of the circumstance. The horse was taken to Epsom
on the Monday, and I accompanied him, and observed that he
favoured the near hind leg. On the Tuesday, at Epsom, I
rode the horse at a walking pace in the paddock for about an
hour and a half, and I found that he still continued lame.
By the SOLICITOR-GENERAL—There were not many other
horses in the paddock at the time, but they were all horses
that were to run at the races. I don't know that Cana-
dian was so lame that any one who saw him could per-
ceive it. There were several people, trainers, and dif-
ferent sorts of persons, looking at the horses, but I did not hear
any one remark that my horse was lame. Ido not know why
I walked him about for an hour and a half on the Tuesday.
Several persons looked at the horse in the stable, but I did not
say any thing about his being lame.,
Re-examined—Mr. Greville had another horse called Pale-
mon that Was to run at these races.
By Lord AEINGER—I did not find out that the horse was
lame until he:was taken into the stable after I had exercised
him on the Sunday. Sherman first found out that the horse
was lame. I began to dress the horse, but I did not discover
that he was lame.
Thomas Sherman—l am in the service of the plaintiff, and I
remember Canadian being exercised on the Sunday before
Epsom races, and I assisted Humby to clean him after he was
brought in. When I went to turn the horse from one side of
the stall to the other I discovered that he was lame in the near
leg behind.
Cross-examined—l don't know but what Canadian is now
at Littleton. I saw him on Tuesday last, and he was
not lame then. He was lame a month ago, and he was
lame for several weeks after the Derby, but no
one attended upon him, and nothing was done to him except
that the leg was bathed with cold lotions. No veterinary surgeon
attended upon him. I could not find any hurt or swelling when
I examined the horse, and I don't recollect that I ever saw such
a lameness before.
Mr. PLATT—Was it not the like mange? Witness—l can't
say that exactly.
Mr. Wm. Field—l am a veterinary surgeon, and I was sent
for by the plaintiff, who wished me to go to Littleton
to see his horse, Canadian; and he told me if I
thought it would not hurt the horse, that he should
like him to go to Epsom. On Monday, the 23d inst., I went
down to Littleton to the place where the horse was. Mr.
Greville told me that he wished the horse to run, and that he
should see him at that place, and judge for himself whether he
was capable of running. I found the horse lame, in my
opinion from injury to the near hock. There was a slight
appearance of heat on that part. I made a careful examina-
tion, and observed that there was snore apparent lameness
when he turned, than when he walked straight. He was not
in a fit state to run a race, but I considered his being re-
moved to Epsom would not hurt him. I prescribed
the application of cold lotions to the leg. I have no
doubt that the injury was ,ef a character very likely
to show itself more after exercise, and when the horse got cool.
Having prescribed for the horse, Lreturned to London and saw
Mr. Greville, and told him my opinion that the injury might
be speedily removed, but, in the then state of the horse, I told
him it would injure the horse if be was started for the race.
On the Tuesday I saw Canadian at Epsom, and the lameness
then appeared to be in the same state. When the horse was put
into the van to go to Epsom, he was lame.
Cross-examined—I thought the horse might recover in two
or three weeks, but he would certainly not have been well
enough to run for the Derby.; and I believe I expressed this
opinion to Mr. Greville on the Monday. The horse was what
I should call very lame, and not competent to run for the
Derby with any chance of winning, and I said this to the
plaintiff, and I think he told me that he should follow my
advice, and if he found the horse in the state I reported,
that he should not run. I was to send the horse
to Epsom if I thought the journey would not injure
him. When I sent him I did not see any chance
of his being able to run. I have never seen him since. I
considered rest would be the only remedy. I think it very
probable the injury was occasioned by a sprain or stretching of
the hock, land I thought that was the seat of the disease, from
the heat I felt at that part. I think it is possible the horse
might have been walked round the paddock at Epsom, and that
experienced persons, trainers and others, might not have ob-
served it, unless it was pointed out. I think that walking or
trotting the horse would be injurious, and I cannot tell with
what object he was walked about for an hour and a half. I
had given directions when I was at Littleton that the horse
should be kept perfectly quiet.
Re-examined—lt would be necessary to see the horse in
action in order to judge whether he would be fit to run un the
Wednesday.
By the Cou AT—I told Mr. Greville on the Monday that the
horse could not run without danger.
Mr. Isaac Day—l am a trainer of horses, but not publicly,
and I have; had experience with horses. I was at Epsom
on the 24th of May, and, by desire of the plaintiff, I went to see
Canadian, and found that he was lame, and certainly not in a
fit state to run in the Derby on the following morning. I bled
the horse on the Wednesday.
Cross-examined—I heard that Canadian was not to run be-
tween two and three o'clock on the Tuesday, and I think Lord
George Bentinck was the first who told me of it. I was at
the Spread Eagle on the same night, and I saw Mr. Craven
there, and heard some observations made by that gentleman,
but not in reference to Canadian being withdrawn from the
race. I was in the large room about half an hour, but
nothing was said there about Canadian. I think Mr. Craven
matte some observations about withdrawing horses, and it was
with reference to that that Mr. Craven mentioned the name of
the plaintiff. I heard Mr. Craven say that withdrawing the
horse was nothing short of an infernal robbery, and lie
said the members of the Jockey Club were all infernal robbers.
He said that he always ran his horses to win, and did not bet
against his own horses. Mr. Greville's name was mentioned,
but I do not know that it was in reference to these observa-
tions. Mr. Craven appeared to me interested. I won't swear
that he did not say the withdrawing of Canadian was an in-
fernal robbery. He did not say that he had heard Mr. Gre-
ville tell some one that he had betted 10,0001. to 300/. against
Canadian. I did not hear any such remarks, but I will not
swear that they were not made. Mr. Craven became very
violent, and I left the bar-room where he was.
Mr. Fulwer Craven examined by Mr. THESIGER.—I was
at the Spread Eagle at Epsom on the night before the Derby,
and I will swear that I did not say that I had heard Mr. Gre-
sine declare that he had betted 10,0001. to 3001. against Ca-
nadian, and that ho considered it a good bet at the time.
Cross-examined—l betted on Attila. I did not bet against
Canadian particularly.
Sir W. FOLLETT—Excuse me for asking the question ; but
were you sober ?
Witness—lt was after dinner, but I have a recollection of
what occurred. I did make some strong observations relative
to horses that were sound being withdrawn on the night before
a race, and the observations would have applied to Canadian if
he had been sound, but I don't know that the name was men-
tioned. I said also that the racing fraternity, the Jockey Club,
trainers, betting men, myself included, were all infernal rogues.
(Laughter.) I willnot swear that canadian'sname was not men-
tioned. 1 bare no recollection of saying that Charles Greville was
a rogue. Ido not think any one said to me, " You are quite
right, Sir, it is an infernal robbery." I heard Charles Greville,
on the 1,000/.day at Newmarket, say that he had betted 10,000/.
to 300/. against Canadian, and that he thought it was a good
bet at the time. I will not swear positively that that one ob-
servation was not made in the room, but I did not hear it. An-
other horse that was expected to run besides Canadian was
withdrawn on the Tuesday. He was not quite an outsider, but
the odds might have been thirty to one against him. I don't
know what were the odds against Canadian. He was a favourite
with a good many people on account of his running at New-
market. I never made use of the expression " Unlike Charles
Greville, I run my horses to win."
By the COURT—There are so many stories about betting
made on these occasions, that I don't attend to one-half of what
is said.
Dilly re-called—The horse was lame for several weeks after
the races, but no veterinary surgeon attended upon him. He
did nut run at Goodwood.
Mr. Robert Stephenson—l am trainer to his Grace the
Duke of Grafton. I have known Canadian since he was a
yearling. In the year 1841 he met with an accident, and
was lame for two mouths, and the fact was publicly known.
lie was afterwards sold to Mr. Greville, and at that time he
was perfectly sound. About two o'clock on the Tuesday, I
learned that Canadian was not to run. Mr. Greville told
me of the circumstance. I know that it was part of the
bargain when the horse was purchased from the Duke of
Graton that he was to have 1,0001. more if he won the Derby .
I went to see the horse at Mr. Greville's request, and found
him lame, and not in a fit state to run. I have been trainee a
great many )ears, and I have known instances of lameness
coming suddenly, and disappearing as suddenly. I knew the
horse Robert de Gorham, who ran at Epsom. He was at one
time in the next stable to Canadian. Their speed had never
been tried against each other.
Cross-examined—Canadian had been tried against a horse
called Chatham, and beat him. Chatham had ran against Ro-
bert de Gorham, and beat him easily. I don't think it follows
that Canadian would have beat Robert de Gorham. Chatham
was ill when he ran against Canadian.—(lt will be remembered
that Robert de Gorham ran second to Attila, the winner of the
Derby). I examined Canadian, and felt a slight heat about
the near hock. lam not aware of any harm being done to the
horse by walking him about when he was lame.
Re-examined—Chatham ran on the last Derby, and he was
of course, beaten by Robert de Gorham.

Mr. George Weatherby—l am Secretary to the Jockey
Club. The horse Canadian was entered to run in the last

Epsom Derby, the Ascot Derby, the Drawing-room Stakes at
Goodwood, and the Duke Michael Stakes at Newmarket.

The horse was entered in the name of the Duke of Grafton,
-- - - - - - -

The amount of the Derby Stakes would be 5,000/., with some
trifling deductions;
,the Ascot Derby would be about 400/.4
the Drawing-room Stakes about 1,200/, and the Duke Michael
Stakes would amount to about 1,000/. I remember some ne-
gotiation in reference to a bet between Colonel Peel and Lord
Charles Fitzroy, and it was disputed whether the former had
laid 10,000/. to 300/. or to 100/. against Canadian and
another horse belonging to the Duke of Grafton, and ulti-
mately the Jockey Club recommended that the bet should be
withdrawn. Mr. Greville has paid all his forfeits upon the
races I have mentioned.

Cress-examined.--It was, I believe, a joint bet between Col.
Peel and Mr. Greville against Canadian and Oneida Chief.
Before the 1,0001. day at Newmarket, the Jockey Club re-
commended the withdrawal of this bet. The decisions of the
Jockey Club are considered to be binding. The principle
upon which the Club acts is upon a consideration of what is
. .

fair and honourable in the matter in dispute. If the Duke of
Grafton had continued the owner of these horses, he might
have withdrawn them from the races if he pleased, without
assigning any reason. The Jockey Club knew nothing of any
bet, and if the owner of a horse chose to order him to

strike out the name he must do so. If a person the owner of
a race-horse betted against him, he might withdraw him if he
pleased; at least, I know of no rule to the contrary. If the
owner of a horse makes a bet that his horse will not win, and

be then withdraws him, by the rules of the Jockey Club the
bet must be paid to the owner of the horse. A person who
makes a bet, if he loses, must pay it.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL—TiIIit is to say, if a person who
has a race-horse, one even who is likely to win, and he bets
against him and withdraws him, and prevents him thereby from
winning, the bete must be paid ? Witness—l know of nothing
to the contrary.
Lord John Fitzroy--I am brother to the. Duke of Grafton,
and I manage his racing establishment. Canadian was the
property of the Duke, and I remember his being lame in 1841.
I negotiated the sale of the horse with Mr. Greville, and it
was arranged that 2,0001. was to be paid down, another LOCO/.
if he won the Derby, and he was to be taken with all his en
gagementa.
Cross-examined—A person who his a horse engaged to run
in any race may withdraw him at his own option, and without
assigning any reason for it. There is no rule of the turf to
prevent the owner of a horse from betting against him, and he
would receive all such bets if he withdrew his horse, andif there
were a dispute the Jockey Club would decide to that effect.
Lord ABINGER—They appear to have a peculiar code of
morals if they say that a man who bets 10,0001. against his horse,
wins the money by withdrawing the horse for• the purpose of
getting the money, and without any other reason being given.
Lord John Fitzroy—l do not defend such a course of con-
duct, but I only say that such a.proceeding might be effected.
Re-examined—l should consider it a most dishonourable
act for a horse to be withdrawn by its owner, when he had
made bets against it ; and I don't think any gentleman would
be guilty of such conduct. No man would be tolerated in
i.,:.ciety who was proved to have done such a thin.