The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-17 00:00:00

extended. Now, the Committee had afforded him no aid as to
the time. They had been silent on that subject, and, there-
fore, the House must have recourse to the evidence on that sub-
ject. It would be a matter for the serious consideration of the
Government, whether, in the event of their extending the
period of the copyright, they ought to extend
the copyright of designs for calicos for a longer period than
six months. It was true, he believed, as had been
• stated by the Hon. Member for Belfast, that there was a
strong feeling in favour of an extension of the time among the
manura turers in Scotland. The Hon. Member for Belfast said
that the calico printers in Ireland•were unanimous on the sub-
ject ; that might be so, but it should be recollected that there
wits but one calico printer in Ireland.—( A laugh.) But what
*as the opinion in Manchester? The Hon. Gentleman said
that there were 48 houses in favour of an extension of. the
time, and 36 against it. But 36 was a very considerable mits?:
rity, and when they were called up, n to alter the law th. e
nion of such a minority ought certainly to be regarded.
The
House should look, however, not at particular towns, but at
what was the general opinion of those engaged in the trade.
He (Mr. Shiel) would admit to the Hon. Gentleman that Mr.
Potter was a most important witness, and that Mr. Potter was
in favour of an extension of the time ; but they should look to
the admissions which Mr. Potter had made. That gentleman
had made the important admission that the great majority of
those engaged in producing these designs were against any ex-
tension. He was asked if the consumers were not benefited.
and he said they were.
He then stated, and it was of import-
ance to be known, that the lower orders were interested in the
matter. What was the evidence of a witness produced by the
Hon. Member' -for Belfast himself, to sustain his case ? and
he said -the lower orders had an interest in large quantities
being produced.—(Cries of Hear, hear.") They were
not to neglect the retailers; and how were they affected?
If this Bill were carried, an injunction would lie, not
only against the pirate, but also against the 100 or 209 retailers
who dealt with him. There was no doubt on the subject.—
(Cheers.) He did not mean to say that the objection was in-
superable, but it was a
_strong one. He now came to the evi •
dence of Mr. Kershaw, No. 3,883, who stated that the re-
tailers petitioned against the extension of copyright; and yet
the Hon. Gentleman was himself the person who produced the
book in which that evidence was given.
Mr. E. TENNENT said he referred to the petitions of tho
persons themselves, and not to the book.
' Mr. SHIEL—At all events it showed the interest the re-
tailers had in the matter. The motion for the retailers was
obvious ; it was to escape from difficulty and litigation. The
matter, therefore, stood thus between the parties ; there was
on the one hand a great body of manufacturers who were very
naturally in favour of extension ; and there were a large body
of capitalists, who had been in the habit of copying, and of
retailers who dealt with them, who were opposed to it.
Would his Hon. Friend forgive him for saying that he would
have acted more judiciously if he had abstained from making
remarks upon individuals, such as Mr. Brooks and Mr. Lucas,
who he said were pirates ? Instead of that Mr. Brooks had not
copied for ten years. When' the Honourable Gentleman
mentioned Mr. Brooks's name, he thought that fact
' should have been mentioned ; and Mr. Lucas, so
far from acknowledging that .he dealt with pirates,
' said'that he dealt with those parties 'only who gave in goods
after the three months had expired. A pirate, under the pre-
' sent Bill, was one who copied before the three months had
expired: Such remarks, then, he thought, were not right, and
It must give Mr. Lucas great pain to see himself misrepre-
sented. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to read a part of
Mr. Lucas's evidence before the Committee. He then con-
tinued—Was it right to say that Mr. Lucas bought 60,000
pieces a-year principally from pirates ? He deprecated holding
up Mr. Lucas to such charges, and read an extract from a
newspaper alleging that that gentleman had dealt with pi-
rates. Were they to extend the copyright from three, to six
or nine months? In 1787, a protection of two months was
granted, but the Bill was only for two years. In 1789, three
months were added, but the Bill was temporary. In 1794 the
Ili I was made perpetual, after an experience of seven years,
but the period of copyright was not extended; it was still
limited to three months. From that time to the present the
law hard not been changed. The trade was in a prosperous
state, and, therefore, they should pause before they made
any large or extensive changes in a matter of such importance.
He thought if a choice were made, that a period of six mon hs
would not prejudice the trade of she country, while at the
same time it would promote the interests of individuals. That
period would be an ample protection for the home market ;
but if he found a more extended period would give an advan-
tage to the continental m irket,-he should pause before he gave
it. There were three objections to the extension to six
months—first, that it would put a restraint on the English
copyist, whilst it would be impossible to restrain those of Bel-
gium, France, and Germany. The next objection was, that
by extending the time of the copy-ight they would furnish an
additional incentive to piracy; for they would by that means
be holding out a further temptation to the few parties who
would be dispose', at any risk, to violate the law. The exten-
sion a the copyright would also interfere with the
facilities with which commercial operations ought to
be carried on. That point had been clearly established
be Mr. Lucas in his evidence before the Committees of 1840.
The consequence which would necessarily follow from the
adoption of the proposition of the Hon. Member for Belfast
would be thi.—that a merchant, before he purchased goods,
should ascertain which was the original producer, and that pro-
ducer might dictate his own terms. Mr. Lucas stated that in
his opinion nothing could be more destructive of the commerce
of the country than such a state of things, and he considered
that everything which fettered trade was prejudicial to trade
He would refer the Hon. Member for Belfast to the apprehen-
sions expressed about the introduction of the registration sys
tem in 1840. This system was fully at work in Frence, where
there were fifty-eight registering offices for patterns. Now,
were the manufacturers of Scotland, of Manchester, and of
Ireland, to send their patterns to one office in London ? If
they were, how was the registering officer to act ? If, as stated
before the Committee, one manufacturer issued no less than
500 °rigidal patterns in a year, how was the officer to examine
and give certificates af the originality of the millions of patterns
that must be sent to him ? and therefore, before the Hon.
Member for Belfast determined upon the plan of registration he
proposed, he (Mr. S.) trusted he would most attentively con-
sider the objet' ions made by the present head of the Government
in 1840. He entreated the Vice-President of the Board of Trade,
and the House generally, to consider the difficulties which would
attend a system of registration. The Right Hon. Baronet, the
Member for Tamwo,-th, had said he wan afraid there would b
much difficulty in establishing such a system, so evanescent
were Crosse matters. As to the officer making certificates that
particular designs were original, the idea was monstrous. The
Right lion. Gentleman opposite had justly said, that they
should endeavour to produce an alliance between manufactures
and art; but let them take care that they did not give an
colossi. agement to art greater than they gave to commerce. It
was not, he believed, by individual remuneration of artists that
art itself could be promoted. He was most anxious to protect
individual property in design as far as was c.,nsistent with the
public interest; but it should be always borne in mind, that it
was by cheapness in production that the commerce of this coun-
try had been advanee,i.
Mr. E. TENNENT explained.
, After a few words from 11r. SHIEL,
Dr. BOWRING said, that he did not object to the purpose
of the Bill, but he conceived that it was inefficient for the object
in view, namely, the protection of invention. The Hon.
Gentleman in his Bill did not define what invention was. In
France the system pursued enabled them to protect copyright
• at a small expente, and there could be no doubt but that the
protection thus afforded had been beneficial to the arts of
design, but the system proposed by the present Bill of leaving
the decision of these questions of invention to two Justices
of the Peace, afforded no security whatever to those meri-
torious rren who, by their inventions of new designs, had done
so much for the credit of themselves and of their country. The
Hon. Member shou'd begin by creating a proper tribunal for
judging in what invention consisted, and also a proper tribunal
fur affording justice to those whose inventions had been in-
vaded. The Bill was inefficient, and would lead to alterca-
tions which would be unit-, elligslale to those who would be called
upon to judge them. He feared the Bill would not accomplish
the object the Hon. Gentleman had at heart
Mr. MARK' PHILIPS would, if he had consulted his
own feelings, have abs'ajned altogether from serving
upon the Cummittee.—( Hear, hear.) Manchester was the
great seat of the entail-printing trade, 'and however ho
might decide, he was certain of offending some portion
of his constituents. It was, therefore, with fear and tretrn
tiling, that he entered that Committee. He, however, felt sa-
tisfied that no man could be a fai, er juryman on the subject
th•n himself, fur he had never had any connexion with the
trade, and whichever way the question might be decided, it
could not at all affect his ir.terests. Ile had thought that these
circumstances would have entirely exonerated him from any
charges of improper conduct ; but since he had last spoken on
the sul jest, it had been reported among his constituents that
he had spoken either dishonestly or in ignorance. Now, he
did not pretend to greater wisdom than his neighbours,
but it certainly was hard to be taxed with dishonesty
under such circumstances, and therefore he stood there, on
the present occasion, to justify his own acts and opinions.
He should not trouble the House with any details ; he simply
wished to say that he approached the subject with a sincere
desire to arrive at what was just and sound. Many news-
papers and pamphlets had reached him from the district., where
the question possessed a peculiar interest, containing insinua-
tions against the evidence given before the Committee, which
he thought displayed exceeding bad taste. If the ta•te those
persons displayed in their designs were not better than the
style of their writing, he dirt not think any one would be likely
to pirate them. Heexplainedthemode in which Parisian designs
were published in this country, and stated that a house in
Manchester had purchased a pattern which another house un-
k owingly perchased alio, and were about to publish, till it
wa accidentally made known to them that it was already in the
hands of another house. Whatever might be the superior
taste of the French in matters of design, he did not think it
was attributsb'e to a natural organisation in which they
surpassed our countrymen, but to the superior care which
the French Government had always taken to facilitate
• the access of the artisans to the observation and study of works
of art. But in this country, all the public collections or works
of art and objects of taste were fenced round with restrictions
which excluded, for the most past, the great body of tl.e
w rking people front deriving either amusement or instruction
from them ; and such institutions were closed on the days, and
in the part., of the year, when it was meat easy for the working
classes to visit them. Another fact which he had always con-
nected with our inferiority in taste was, that our public inst.tu-
' tines were c'osed on the Sunday, the only day on which the
working classes could spare time to examine them, while they
• were open on the Continent on that day. He must also ac-
knowledge that the School of Design in Manchester had not re-
ceived that support to which it was entitled from those who
were bound to uphold it, and certainly he could not a•k the
Government for aid to it while those persons held back ; how-
ever, the offer that had been made by the Government would,
he believed. have an excellent effect in arousing the
spirit of Manchester. He did not think that the ex-
tension of the period of copyright would have any ef-
fect in giving more employment to engravers, to calico-
printers, and to designers, though the latter stated to the Com-
mittee their expectat.on that it would. In short, an extension
to six months sva not necessary became a good pattern would
always sell itself, and si„ r r
,i,kee
no-
velty and variety. linker' -'s must live only by having s
Air. Warwick, who was for a longer
time, stated to the Committee that a lady would riot buy a second
dress 0 the sane path, n, though itmighthave been a good one,
hut she must have amt. er. All that was required was protection
for one tea3on fi r the sale of the goods. Ile would next refer to
the cost of thedesign. From the evidence takenbefore the Com-
mittee it appeared the c et of printing was .55., which included
the cost of the design. The proportion of the cost of the de-
sign was the 192 d part of the cost-price, and 352 d part of the
sel ing pi ice,. so that the cost of the design was really of trifling
importance. An increase of the copyright trail injure our
t ade. It would have the effect of increasing the cont,,,,f,ll:haet
article, and by that increaie they would reduce the consump-
tion. He grounded his apprehensions on experience, f
had occurred might occur again. . He was not advortat n; the
cause if piracy, but he must say that, under all the circum-
stances of the case, he thought there was sufficient protection
for one season ; and he would say, that upon a matter of so
effeminate a nature, created one day and forgotten the next
that they were not wise in attachingcso much importance to
these inventions, which were se difficult of definition.
Captain FITZROY apologised for addressing the House oa
this subject, end he should not have thought of doing so had
I.e considered his own ability; but his first consideration was his
constituents, and he therefore should have been deserting his
duty if he had not risen to say a few words on this subject.
Under the present system the manufacturer was obliged to put
a high price on his goods, in order to provide against those
that syn.ht remain in hand, as there was not a sufficient time
given him for the copy right ; but under the proposed change