The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 20, 1845.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 19.
The SrEeKsa took the Chair at the usual hour.
RAILWAY BILLS.

Mr. Mackenzie and other Hon. Members brought up re-
ports from the sub-Committees appointed to inquire whether
the standing orders on certain private Bills had been complied
with. The Committee reported in favour of the York
and Scarborough Railway Line, the Leeds and Bradford,
the Ashton and Stalybridge, the Manchester and Leeds
( Bur nley Branch), the Leeds and West Riding Junction, the
Hull and Selby, the Kendal and Windermere, the Chester and
Birkenhead, the Manchester and Carlisle, the Cockermouth and
Workington, the Leeds and Dewsbury, the West York, and
other lines. 'I he Guildford, Chichester, and Portnneuth, were
reported not to have complied with the standing orders.
I NCOM E-T AX.
Sir J. MORDAUNT presented petitions from several places
against the continuance of the income-tax.
Colonel WOOD presented a petition from Worcester, pray-
ing that the owners of houses rented above 61. in that city
should be rated to the poor-rates instead of the tenants, as at
present.

been received by the British aovernment until July, when
they received a letter from Sir Robert Gordon, our
Ambassador at Vienna, stating the facts of the case. The Aus-
trian Government strongly remonstrated with the British Go-
vernment for permitting the boat containing these 22 indivi-
'foals to sail, which clearly showed that there had been no collu-
sion between the two Governments. These 22 individuals did
land; the only account the British Government Lad received
was conveyed to them in a letter from Mr. Temple, the British
Minister at Naples. The British Government made no
communication whatever to Mr. Temple, because his Noble
Friend never suspected that 22 individuals, unarmed,
and seemingly defenceless, would direct a project against the
coast of Calabria. On the 26th of June Mr. Temple in-
formed the Government of what occurred on the landing of
theft individuals. He said that a party landed, twenty-two in
number, thus confirming the previous report; and, on the
night of the 19th of June, they fell in with a small force, con •
sisting of a few civic officers and three gens-d'armes. An
engagement took place, in which one of the twenty-two was
killed. St. Giovanni, the judge of the town, collected a num-
ber of the inhabitants, by which the project was entirely de-
feated, and the result proved highly satisfactory to the -Nea-
politan Government, inasmuch as the defeat of the party was
owing to the courage and fidelity of the natives themselves.
This answer to his Noble Friend was : that as they never
suspected that 22 individuals, who had up to the present mo-
ment resided quietly in Corfu, would attempt to in-
vade the Italian shores from boats, they had never
made any communication with them warning them
from it ; at the same time they had never made any
communication to the Austrian, Neapolitan, or the Roman
Governments, and the reasons why they had not done so was,
that they never suspected any such attempt was contemplated.
He had now given the only answer he could give. Any im-
pression that the Government had allured these individuals
to destruction was erroneous, and totally without foundation.
THE IIIAUM OF MUSCAT.

Mr. HUME wished to know whether there would be any
objection to the production of the correspondence between the
Imaum of Muscat and the present Government relative to the
affairs of that country ?.

Sir R. PEEL hoped the Hon. Gentleman would put the
question to-morrow.

WINDOW-TAX.
Lord DUNCAN postponed his motion with respect to the
window-tax, which stood for to-morrow, till Monday. He
had stated his intention to do so in the early part of the even-
ing, and he now repeated it in the presence of the Right Hon.
Baronet.
Mr. ',ERRAND wished to put a question to the Secretary
of State for the Home Department. Three sessions ago, Mr.
Moggeridge was appointed a Commissioner to go into the
inland counties, to Inquire into the distress existing there.
He had made his report, but it had not been laid on the table
of the House. He wished to know whether it was intended
to lay it on the table of the House ?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the report had been
made, but not printed, as far as it was it would be laid on
the table of tho House.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that Members had been in-
formed that yesterday or to-day they were to be fur-
nished with the list at the articles on which the duty was to be
taken off.
Sir R. PEEL said that it had been found to be convenient
to arrange the articles alphabetically, and as soon as that was
dune the list would be laid on the table.
SPERM OIL.

Mr. GEORGE SMITH wished to ask a question of the
First Lord of the Treasury, which was of importance to a large
class of persons. It was, whether it was the intention of the
Government only to reduce, or altogether to take off, the duty
on sperm oil?.
Sir R. PEEL stai I the duty on sperm oil was not to be given
up at once, but the Government did intend to provide for ulti-
mately relinquishing that duty ; but they would postpone it, to
such a period as not to interfere injuriously with existing inte-
rests. He might as well state new, that after the sth of Ja-
nuary, 1849—( Hear, hear, and laughter)—the duty on sperm
oil should cease.

SUGAR DUTIES.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL asked when the exact resolutions
proposed by the Government on the eugar duties would•be laid
on the table ?

Sir R. PEEL raid the House would be in possession of the
resolutions to-morrow, and he was did hope that he should be
able to furnish them this evening. In that case he hoped, in
the discussion of the income-tax this evening, the sugar duties
would not be debated, but would be left till those resolutions
wer e seen. _

Lord J. RUSSELL thought it would be more reasonable
for the Right Hon. Baronet to postpone the consideration of
the sugar duties till Monday.
Sir R. PEEL thought the Hon. Member for Manchester
had given a notice for equalising the duties on foreign and co-
lonial sugars on Friday next, and that there was no objection
on the part of the Noble Lord to that discussion having prece-
dence of the Noble Lord's own resolution.

Lor J. RUSSELL had no objection to that arrangement,
supposing, after the Hight Hon. Gentleman's motion was dis-
posed of, no further proceedings should be taken till Monday.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said, his only object in all this was
to prevent confusion in the trade, to which it was of great im-
portance that the opinion of the House should be known. He
should bate no objection to the discussion taking place on the
motion of the Hon. Member for Manchester, on Friday next ;
and on Monday they could take the discussion on the proposal
of the Noble Lord. . _ _

Mr. GIBSON said it was, then, to be understood that the
question of the equalization of duty on sugar would take place
on Monday next, and for that purpose, he did not think it
necessary to bo provided with the particular details of the Go-
vernment measure.

Mr. ESCOTT wished to know from the Chancellor of:the
Exchequer, whether any time would be allowed to those who
had pail the duty to clear off their stocks ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that it
was not the intention of the Government to allow any time.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether, as the duty on sperm
oil was to be taken off, the duty on common whale oil would
also be taken off?

Sir R. PEEL said it was the intention of the Government
to take off the duty on whale oil, and at an earlier period than
that at which it was to be taken off of sperm oil, because the
same reasons did not exist in the case of whale oil for continuing
the duty for so long a period.
Mr. R. BLEWITT, before the Speaker left the chair,
wished to ask the R ght Hon. the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer a qUestion respecting a paper that had been put into his
hands that morning. He referred to the copy of the Naval
Receipts and Expenditure for the year ending the 24th
of March. 1844. It was a paper laid on the table
et the House, in accordance with the provisions of an
Act passed in the fourth year of the reign of William the
Fourth, cap. 40, sec. 60. A certificate was attached to the
paper in the following terms :—.“ We, the Commissioners for
auditing the public accounts, hereby certify that this account has
been audited by the officers under our employ, and we declare the
statements made therein to be correct and ratisfacterv, subject
to the notes and remarks by the Commissioners made thereon."
This certificate was signed by three Commissioners,
and he
wished to call the attention of the Right Honourable
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the
terms, in which it was written. It was stated to be
examined not by the Commissioners themselves, but by
officers under their direction, and notwithstanding they had
not done it themselves they certified that it was correct.
This was the most extraordinary document that he had
ever seen submitted to Parliament._( Great laughter.) If
these gentlemen are to be paid for this work, and do not
perform the duty themselves, he should consider it necessary
for him to move that the ofiee be abolished altogether.—
( Hear, near.) Now, what he wanted to a.k the Hon. Gentle-
man the Chancellor of the Exchequer was, what were the
,alaries paid to these three gentlemen ? He wished the Right
Hon. Gentleman to explain to this House and the country
what he a.,nsidered to be the value of their certificates.
WAYS AND MEANS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said those
accounts were audited the same as any other public accounts.
The lion.
were
Gentlemen
to must
aet
m hn
beou
ha wt
haereputhhliact
seirfv
itchee.
to g
Com-
missioners
every account themselves
it would be impossible
The SeltALltft then
left the chair, and the House resolved
I e
xti
itself into a Committe of Ways and Means.
NCOME-TAX.

would this evening move
Non. Baronet's resolution in
Mr. ROEBUCK rose to propose h;amendment He said,
thea itw
additiona
sundtoersttohoed,
Rightthat Hhe
reference to the income-tax, of which he had given
notice, he would now at once proceed to do so.
In the statement he was about to make, he would apply himself
to the principles and to the declarations of the Right Hon.
Baronet, and upon those he nould call upon him for his sup-
port. He would next address himself to the majority of the
Right Hon. Baronet, or, in the agricultural other words, to
aristocracy on the Oppo itibn benches; he would apply his
arguments to their principles and declarations, and 11 ea upon
them for their support.apply his would then arguments
to the Irish Members in this House, except such of them as
represented the landed interest of that country ; he would re-
mind them of their principles and declarations, and then call
upon them for their votes—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear ")
and therefore he would say that, whatever his explanations
might be, he ought to have an ample majority on his motion.
Now, in the first place, he would ask, what were the principles
of the Right Hon. Baronet ? The Hon. I3aronet said that he
had a diffiCwlty to encounter, and he proposed to remedy it by the
continuation of the income-tax. But he went one step far-
ther, and said he would make such alterations in the tariff as
would give an additional impulse to trade.—( Here the Hon.
Member was rendered almost inaudible by the noise created
by conversations going on in all parts of the House.)
The Honourable Member was understood to say he
would give a further impulse to trade by re-
moving certain taxes, and their vacancy he would fill
up by continuing the income-tax upon England, Scotland,
and %Vales, but made an exception in regard to
Ireland. But if the tax was to be applied by
a rule, he would ask, why make this exception ?
He would show that it was not according to the rule of pro-
ceeding which the Right Honourable Baronet had :laid down
for himself in respect to England and Scotland, to exempt
Ireland. lie thought that when he should have shown that,
he would have thrown the onus on the Right Hon. Bart., of prn-
'ring his reasons for the exemption. The exigency was on
the whole of the United Kingdom—it was common to Great
Britain and Ireland, and their united wants should be met by
their united means—which meant their united income and pro-
perty. On that principle the Right lion. Gentleman taxed the
property of England and Scotland. Nosy he (Mr. Ft.) would
ask him to go one step further, and to tax the realised
capital of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Ile did not ask him
to tax professions, trade, and even office.—( Hear.) But he
asked why should the realised property of Ireland be ex-
empted, when it did not differ•one iota from the other capital
of this portion of the United Kingdom ?—(Hear,hear. ) He
would now approach another part of the question ; and he
would ask the agriculturists how it was that they supported the
Right Ilon. Gentleman in this exemption ?"--( Hear.) They
came in tones of mingled hope and despair to demand relief ;
but the Right Hon. Baronet left them as they were ; and
when he asked them why they complained of him, they answer
like the puny child who has fallen over a stool, " because
you did not kiss the place that was hurt."—(Laughter. )
He found means, however, to extricate himself from this exi-
gency which the Right Hon. Gentleman wont himself to
create or promote. The Hon. Member for Somersetshire
was complaining of distress. In the most touching strains ho
spoke of the touching distress of the classes to which he was
attached, and of the touching condect of the Minister by wham
they had been thus so grievously touched. lie hoped that, on this
occasion at least, he should have the vote of the Hon. Member
for Somersetshire. What were his plans ? He could not tell;
but in this measere he had some intimation of the protection
of him whom he had created. Had they received any favour
at his hands? Had their interests been in any way pro-
moted? .No. But of this they did not complain. They
felt that they could get no relief from their burdens ;
they felt that the exigencies of the State left them
without relief, when relief was afforded to every
other elasi. Vet of this !hey slid
riot complain. No ; but
they did feel it a grievance that the Right Hon. Baronet had
not expressed even sorrow for their griefs. They had created
him—they had brought' him into existence—they had breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life—and what was the return
they met with? Why, the creature. who had life only by
their means, turned round upon them, and was ready to
strangle his creators. By this time they found that
the Right Hon. Baronet had an opinion of his own,
and those who had placed him in his present position found
that that opinion did not tend to their advantage. He did
then appeal to them, and on this occasion he did hope that they
would no longer crawl on their bellies. They wanted a leader,

they had found one, and they might find another if they would
try. And what did the Irish Members expect ie this matter?
How could they expect to be freed from this tax? He did, there-
fore, appeal to gentlemen opposite to extend this tax to Ireland.
The agriculture of the country could i.ot be relieved but by
extending the tax to the realised capital of Ireland. The land '
in Ireland was as fruitful and as valuable as any acres in the
county of Somerset. What did the manufacturers say to
this ? Why they were delighted with the scheme
of tile Right Honourable Baronet. It was said he
relieved the springs of industry—why, what was the fact?
Manchester was bribed—Glasgow was bribed—and so were
Newcastle and Sunderland. They said they could not compete
with foreign countries unless their labourers worked certain
hours. It manufacturers were honest in their measures to aid
the labouring population, they would vote with him in endea-
vouring to put this tax upon the rich landlords of Ireland.
They were beyond any appeal he could make ; if he were a
money-lender he might be able to appeal to them, but not
dealing in that commodity he could not reach their
understandings. But he was about to appeal to those who
professed to represent the Irish people. What, did
not the Right Honourable Baronet say all his phrases
were significant, and he watched him always, not to lind, like
the Hon. Baronet, that he was a difficult bird on whose tail
to put salt. —( ughter. ) The Right Hon. Baronet had put
a stamp duty on Ireland, but he asked him to tax the land of
Ireland. The Right Hon. Baronet taxed the capital enraged
in the employment of labour in Ireland. The stamp duty was a
tax on the transfer of all sorts of property, and was almost
entirely paid by the middle class of that country, and a large
portion of it tell on both the middling and labouring population.
Now the. Hon. and Learned Member for Dungarvon had hinted
to hint, the other evening, that he should take advantage of the
aajotirnment of this debate to read Burke's speech on the con-
ciliation of America. Now, what was in the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman's mind when he reminded him of America ? Why,
revolution ! That the English Government might be fright-
ened into an unjust tax, because the people of Ireland were in
such a turbulent state that they could not put a just tax open t hem.
That was the intrepretatien of considering the speech of Mr.
Burke, but he was sure the Right Hon. Gentleman could net
have had this notion in his mind. The grand argument of
that speech was, that America was not politically represented.
Did the Right Hon. Gentleman mean to say that Ireland was
not politically represented ?
An HON. aleatax it—Not fully.
Mr. ROEBUCK—Wait a minute! They had given Ire-
land some Members. Where were they now ?—(Cheers. )
What was the use of giving them any more if those
they had already given them were of no use to them ?
They ran from their posts—they deserted them like a sentinel
placed in a dangerous situation, who could not keep his heart
up to the difficulty of his position, threw down his musket.
turned tail and ran away.—( Hear, hear.) They had deserted
the ground on which the battle of the people of Ireland must be
fought.—( Cheers.) He did not accuse the leading
Irish Member upon that occasion—he did not mean
him individually, but the whole of his followers, who,
like him, had run away. They had done so because in that
House they felt they were unable, from their own personal in-
significance, to gein• the attention of Honourable Ale,nhers.
That he took to be the rationale of Conciliation-hall. He hoped
the Hon. Member would abstain, after that night, from plead-
ing the unequal representation of Ireland es any justification
for the existence of unequal taxation between the two coun-
tries. He would not impose any injustice upon any one. He
would be the last person to sanction an act of injustice, but he
wanted the Irish Members to show to him the injustice of his
proposal.—( Hear, hear.) If they pointed to the stamp duty,
he would say change it, because it was a tax which fell 'men
the actual capital of the country. He said, then, charge it ley
all means, and place it upon the landlords of Ireland.—( Hear,
hear.) Mark how they had been dealt with. The power of
governing the country had been conceded to them. Within
the last few years a large portion of the tithes of the country
had been given to them, and every man who bought an estate
now bought with it some of the tithes of the country. Why
should they not be taxed, then, in the same way as the
landlords and hard-working citizens of England?--(Hear.)
The commercial interests in that House were asked to sanc-
tion this impost by the small " bribe" (he might as well call
it, as it was, that word) offered them, while they were also
called upon to bear with the extra tax upon income,
in order to relieve the landlords of Ireland.
Now, mark well, his point was not with any class
in Ireland, but the untaxed landlords of that country.

Mils landlord paid no assessed taxes ; he
came now to this country—to this city, and brought
his horses and carriages, and lived here in lodging',
and yet he was not called on to pay taxes for them ; while if
r he (Mr. Roebuck) wished to ease his infirmities by keeping a
horse he should pay taxes for it.—( Laughter.) The Right
' Hon. Gentleman near him (addressing Mr. Shell) might
keep his three horses and a carriage here if he chose, and
live in lodgings, and pay no taxes for them, while he
(Mr. Roebuck), if he kept but one horse, down came
the tax-gatherer. (Loud laughter.) Those Irish
, landlords, those lords of thousands, came to London, travelled
to Paris —Brussels—the Nile, came back again, lived here,
but—no taxes—( Laughter)—while if he (Jir. Roebuck) left
his home and took a little recreation elsewhere, there was his
house ready to be seized by the iron grasp of the never.
failing tax-gatherer, whether he (Mr. Itobuck ) was there
or not.—(Laughter.) Then let the House loiik at the la-
bours of the professional man of this conntry, who, though his
earnings were the result of nights of hard toil, yet had to
pay a tax upon income.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member
i concluded by proposing his amendment, which was to the effect
that tho property-tax be extended to Irelend.
Mr. SHELL said he would commence by saying to the
Hon. Member who had just sat down, that though he had
done him the honour of paying him a compliment in the
allusion he had made, he regretted he could
not reciprocate the compliment.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.")
His Hon. Friend had adverted to the absence of many Irish re-
presentatives from the United Parliament. Now, he (Mr.
Sheil) felt great sympathy with his absent friends, although
he had not thought it judicious or consistent with his duty to
his own constituents to follow their example.—( Loud cheers. )
At the same time he should be very sorry to impugn their mo-
tives, for their case was this, that Ireland was not adequately
represented. The case they made was, that the county of
Cork returned only five Members, whereas the principalities
of Wales, with a smaller population, returned thirty-three
Members. Many large towns had no representatives at all,
whereas every insignificant town in England, with 2,000 inha-
bitants, returned two Members. They said that they had not
the benefit of English institutions. But his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Roebuck) was willing to give them the benefit of such
English institutions as the same Church, the same income-
tax, but not the same registration or representation. They
said that they had tried for fourteen years since the Reform
II 11, to obtain juaice.—( Hear, hear.) They despaired of
success. They were overwhelmed by the majority of English
and Scotch Members, and they thought it better to try the
pressure out of doors.—(Cheers.) Net by force, but by a
gentle kind of violence.—( Cheers and laughter.) They
thought that by these means, more effectually than by their
presence in Parliament, they might induce that power and the
Government] to give them the benefit of English institutions.
—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Kendal wished the
income-tax to be perpetuated, and the Hon. Member for Bath
wished it to be infinite--( Hear, hear, and laughter)—so that
between them they would have it a divine tax.—(Laughter. )
He ( Mr. Sheil) did venture, between Tuesday morning and
Wednesday evening, to refer to the speech of the Hon. Member
fur Bath, and he did think that that speech contained some
' most admirable admonitions. That speech was said to be
imbued with some of the spirit of a distinguished individual
formerly a Member of that House, and he did believe that, on a
review of the efforts of that great man, that this to which his ob-
servation had been directed was the most important, if not the
very best. It exhibited that great man in all the fulieeis ot his
power, as comprehensive and sound in judgment as he was
bright in imagination and brilliant in idea. If the lion. Mem-
ber had drawn from such a source, he had drawn with advan-
tage ; and he did suspect that he observed something of the
spirit of his original in those forcible addresses which he had
heard in that House when the Hon. Member was warning the
Government of the day not to interefere with the rights of the
colonies, and when in estimating their supplies he emphatically
coejured them not for a moment to attempt to lay hands on the
revenues of Canada. Now, what was the course the lion.
Member was now pursuing? He was attempting to induce
the Government to violate the very principle of which he him-
self had, bat a few years ago, been such an able
advocate. No such plan as the lion. Member
for Bath had recommended had ever been adopted.
For when the income-tax had first been laid on by Mr. Pitt, in
1793, which was before the union, E 0 attempt had been made
to extend the impost to Ireland. The income-tax was re-
pealed in 1803, at the end of the war. The emergency which
occasioned it had passed away. It was always considered a
war tax—a tax to be imposed on the arising of extraordinary
necessity, and seasons of emergency alone could justify it. On
the renewal of the war in 1804 it was again imposed, bat even
then, notwithstanding all the outlay of this country, it was not
extended to Ireland. Neither Lord Sidmouth, nor Mr.
Pitt, nor Mr. Percival, nor Lord Liverpool, had ever thought
of extending the income-tax to Ireland, and he (Mr. Sheil)
did doubt whether after these experiments and occasions—
extreme occasions—any attempt to extend such a measure to
Ireland could be made of any profitable avail, and he
did think that it would be a little, as well as an unwise at-
tempt, to draw on the confined resources of Ireland to swell
the golden Pactolus of British opulence.—( Hear, hear. )
It was true that the revenues of Ireland exceeded the legitimate
expenses of that country ; it, did not exceed the debt of Ire-
land, but that debt was created by its connexion with this
country. It was hard, after suffering all that had been cast
upon them by this country, they should put upon then, the in-
come-tax. The ground and quit rents of Ireland had been
spent upon Windsor Castle and on the improvement of Lon-
don. —( Hear.) More than a million had been expended of
those rents in that way. The Right Hon. Baronet, as he un-
derstood, intended to extend the means of Catholic education
in Ireland ; could not, he would ask them, the ground
and quit rents of Ireland be applied to that purpose? lie
thought to place an income-tax on the people of Ireland would
be unjust and impolitic. If they were to extend the income-
tax to Ireland the lion. Member for Donegal would at once
join the repealers.—( Laughter.) He would at once take the
Grey Porter view of it, and he would become a sympathiser
with the Concilliation-hall. In 1782 the Irish extorted the
independence of their Parliament from this country, and there
were men who thought before they died to see that inde-
pendence restored again.—(Cries of " Hear," and cheers. )
Before he sat down—which he should very soon do—he should
be able to show that, without imposing the income-tax on Ire-
land, they might raise a large amount of revenue. Saving was
equivalent to gain.—( Hear, hear.) He was surprised his lion.
Friend, the Member fur Montrose, the other night, should have
forgotten his usual topics ; under the influence of the eloquence
of the Right Hon. Baronet, he seemed even to forget himself.
He did not say a word about saving the revenue, or economy,
or the reductions that might be made in the army in Ireland
under a better system of government. His Hon. Friend had
often pointed out how two thousand men were enough for
Scotland, and the evil of keeping up so large a force in Ire-
land. But on that occasion his Hon. Friend, who was gene-
rally as watchful as the dragon that kept guard over the Golden
Fleece, was lulled to sleep by the persuasive eloquence of the
Right Hon. Baronet, and yielded to the enchantments of that
fascinating financier 1—( Great laughter.) But his Hon.
Friend was gate right in the positions he had so often laid
down. They could, by conferring good government on Ire-
land, effect an essential saving. if they would adapt their in-
stitutions to Ireland, instead of adapting Ireland to their insti-
tutions—(Hear, hear)—the phrase was en antithesis, but it
was full of truth—if they would adapt their institutions to Ire-
land, instead of adapting Ireland to their institutions—they
would make money of them. Peace was a great happiness ;
let them not inflict merely a temporary tranquillity on that coun-
try ; let them make it a perpetual peace.—(Cheers.) Peace
would make it a larger contributor to their revenue. Pease
would increase its import duties—peace would make it consume
more sugar and coffee—peace would enable it to take more
British manufactures—peace would throw open a vast field of
enterprise—and in the prosperity of Ireland. they would for all
their munificence he usuriously repaid.—( Loud cheering. )
Sir J. l' II RE LL, after wingra.tulatieg the House on the
display of eloquence they had heard that evening, said, if he
did not in his own person exhibit an example of agri-
cultural distress—(lmmense laughter)—yet he hoped it
would be conceded to him that distress was in the habit of
meeting with " strange bedfellows."—( Renewed laughter. )
He was aware that many Gentlemen in that House were not
inclined to support any proposition coming from the Hon. Mem-
ber opposite, b 1 reason of his entertaining extreme opinions
on certain politteal subjects; but he (Sir J. Tyrrell) now trusted
to the courage of his'agricultural friends around him—( A laugh)
—that they would pluck up their courage—(Laughter)—and
that be would see by the announcement in to-morrow's papers,

by the report on the division, that they had not, to use a nau-
tical term, gone "bout ship" but had recorded their votes in
favour of this motion.— ( Laughter. ) He would say it was !
on grounds et common justice that this motion. had been in-
troduced to this House. 'llle Hon. Member for Dungarvon
had appealed to the consideration of the House, and asked the
House to deal with the proposition in accordance
with the spirit of the Act of Union, by which it
would 'appear that the Honourable Member contended
that if this tax were imposed, there would be a breach of faith
and good understanding; but he (Sir J. Tyrrell) would con-
tend for it that there were very few Members of the Hou e
who would take that view of this proposition. I'pon a former
occasion, when Mr. Bankes made a similar proposition to that
House, he called upon the clerk at the table to read the seventh
clause of the Act of Union, and the argument then used by
that geutleman would have completely upset the arguments of
the lion. Member for Dungarvon, and would not have left
him a leg to stand on.—( A laugh.) But the Hon. Baronet
at the head of her Majesty's Government had said t: at it would
be unjust to impose the income-tax upon Ireland. Now, he
(Sir John Tyrrell) held in his hand a report of the sentiments
of the Hon. Baronet, uttered upon this subject in 1833, when
he said that Ireland should not Le exempt from any such im-
post, as such a measure would be extren.ely unjust.—(Hear,
hear.) He (Sir J. Tyrrell) was as much averse as any one
to any unjust taxation of Ireland ; but in the present pro-
position it was intended to deal only with the rich people of
that cauntry.—( Hear. hear.) From the feeling that ap-
peared to exist in the House upon this subject, he had no
hesitation in saying that those who now occupied seats on the
Treasury benches, as well as those on the other side, who
held commissions in the army, were too much in the habit •f
regarding their places as family-seats, and all were too often
found on the same side of the House. Yes, he would say
again, that Hun. Members on the Ministerial aide were too
often to he found joining Hon. Members on the Opposition side
on the voluntary principle_( Laughter)—while those on the
Opposition side were to be equally often found supporting the
Right Hon. Baronet on the compulsory principle.—( Great
laughter.) He had been lest to understand that even now
there was a negotiation going on fur a conciliation measure
with Ireland, between the Noble Lerd the Member for London
and some of the Opposition Members.—( Laughter.) Now, if
the papers were in a sufficiently forward state, he would move
that they be laid upon the table of the House.—(Laughter. )
Ile had heard much of justice to Ireland ; but he would say
that, if this proposition was not carried, there would not be
justice done to that country in pecuniary matters.—( Laughter. )
If this were not carried, what was meant by the often-repeated
phrase of " Hereditary bondsmen don't know."—(Shouts
of laughter.) Ile was not for taxing the lower orders of the
Irish people ; but if the income-tax were imposed upon the
landlords of that country, he could not agree that the result
would not be an outbreak in that country, because those who
had to pay it were bound to keep the peace by the best passible
security—namely, the preservation of their own interests.—
( Hear, hear.) He had now nearly concluded ; but be-
fore he aid so he hoped, before the close of this de-
bate, to hear some Honourable Member reply to
the unanswerable speech of the Hon. Member for Dungarvon.
—(Loud laughter. ) There was to be a remission of taxes to
a large amount, in Ireland, on sugar and on glass ; and, there-
fore, if there were not an equivalent imposed, he could tell the
House that great discontent would be created, for the commer-
cial interests of this country were crawlingly alive to such con-
duct.—( Lord laughter. )
Mr. WILLIAMS had listened with attention to the speech
of the Hon Member for Dungarvon, but he regretted to say he
had heard no argumenta adduced in it which convinced him
that this tax should not be imposed on the landlords of Ireland.
He (Mr. 'Williams) (lid think that any landlord in Ireland,
whether he had 1,0001., or 10.000/, or 20,000/. a-year, should
pay this tax as well as the tradesmen in England. who had roily
1501. a-yaar profi by their ti ads. Now the proposition he
( air. Williams) would make was, that those persons in Ireland
who received their incomes out of the puiblic money, should pay
this tax, as well as they did in England. He should like to
know why the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, who received about
20,000/. a-year of the public money, should not pay this tax. He
would likewise wish to know why the Chief Secretary of Ireland
(lid not pay this tax? That officer had 500/. a-year more than the
Secretary of State for the Home Department, and not half so
much to do, and yet he had not this tax to pay. Neither was
it paid by the judges of Ireland, who received an aggregate
sum of 150,000/. a-)ear of the public money. He had before him
documents by which to prove that in fifteen years, between 1821
and 1841, Ireland paid only one-twelfth of the taxes ; in fifteen
years, only one-thirteenth ; and in five y'ea's, only one-six-
teenth ; while in the year 1844, the amount of taxes paid by
Ireland did not exceed 4,097,000/., and England paid, in the
same year, 51,000,0001. He thought that great injustice had
been done to Ireland ; but he would contend for it that in the
item of taxes that country had been most remarkably pro-
tected. It was well known that one-third of the Crown
patronage in this country had been bestowed on Ireland—
( Cries of " No, no") —and therefore, if the Right Hon.
Baronet did not give good reasons for not extending this tax
to Ireland, he (Ur. Williams) would persevere in hit motion
There were many articles of import on which small duties
were levied, which cost so much in the collection that it was
not worth while to retain them, at the same time that the best
of time and the vexation which the collection occrsioned could
only be known to the importers.—( Hear, hear.) If the
Customs' duties on fifty articles were repealed, the sacrifice of
revenue would nut be more than half a million.— ( Hear. hear. )
Taking the cost of coil, ction of the stamp duties, the income-
tax, the assessed taxes, and the window-tax. it amounted
only to 431/,000/., and that was for the collection of
16,850,000/., or about one-fourth of the whole revenue. If
all the taxes were collected at the same rate, the cost would
collection of 59,000,000/., si that
be only 1,600,000/. for the
a vast amount could be saved by raising the revenue from
other sources than the vexatious taxes that came under the
head of Customs and Excise. At the same time, he admitted
that no one could find fault with the reductions which the
Right Hon. Baronet had made, although it was to be wished
that he had made more, and chosen other articles. Now, he
must say that there was not in the who'e history of taxation an
instance of a burden so heavy imposed upon the same amount
of population as now pressed upon the people of Great Bri-
tain.—(llear, hear.) We were now in the thirtieth
year of peace, and the taxation was as heavy as at the height of
the war, The Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir J. Graham)
had written a book—( A laugh)—in which he proved, that,
taking into account the state of the currency, although the
nominal amount of the taxation in the year 1813 (the most
expensive of the war). was 81,000,000/., it was re .11y equal
only to 52,000,000/. He could see no reason for the increase
of the naval expenditure, which was to be greater in this year
of profound peace than it was in 1841, when we had '26 ships
of the line at sea.—( Hear) He did not, however, object to
keeping the navy which was the best defence of the country,
hut he objected altogether to the proposed increase of the
army.' The average amount of the army in 10 years, when the
Whigs were in office (arid they had enough to do with war in
China and other places on their hands), was 105,059, but now
in profound peace it was to be 129,000 men, with an increase
besides of 2,500 marines, and 10,000 armed pensioners.—
( Hear, hear.) He trusted that when the Right Hon. Baronet
(ime to the estimates he would be prepared either te satisfy
the House of a necessity for the increase, or to make a consider-
able reduction.—( Hear.) When the present amendment was
disposed of, he should move that the tax upon income he ex-
tended to salaries in Ireland.

• Mr. ROSS would not at present go into a discussion of all
' the questions which the Hon. Gentleman had introduced.
But he would say that his proposition for extending the income-
' tax to Ireland had so much the appearance of justice that he
(Mr. Ross) might probably feel it his duty to vote
with the Honourable Gentleman if it came to a di-
vision.--( Hear.) As to the Hon. Member for Bath
he would only sly that, if the Hon. and Learned Gentlemen
were placed in the dtuation of the Right Hon. Barone.,
would not have ventured to bring forward his present proposi-
tion.—(" Hear, hear," from Sir R. Peel.) There were con-
siderations of policy which, in some cases, must weigh against
a proposition which had abstract justice in its favour.—( Hear.)
The present position of Ireland was so very peculiar, that the
income-tax could not be applied to that country, and he re-
gretted exceedingly the sentiments ad tressed by the Hon.
Member for Bath to the landlords of the sister kingdom. They
were at all times ready to subscribe to agricultural and medical
institutions for the relief of the deserving poor. He thought
then it would be injurious at this period to extend the income-
tax to Ireland, and he trusted that, hereafter, this debate
might lead Hon. Gentlemen to entertain stmpathetic views
' towards Ireland. He entreated them not to turn their hearts
against its misfortunes, but he felt assured that the debate
would not be closed without a better feeling being produced
towards that unhappy country. Every one knew the suffer-
ings it had lately undergone. It had been disturbed by poli-
tical commotions, and was it right, no-.s that the public mind
was becoming soothed, to pass an Act which would disturb the
better feeling which was beginning to be engendered on the
other side of the channel towards this country.—( Cheers. )
Lord BERNARD said, connected as he was with Ireland
by birth and other ties, he could not quietly listen to the sen-
timents which had been expressed with reqrd to the landlords
of that country. Before, however, he proceeded to discuss that
question, he would take leave to ref,r to the opening part of
the speech of the Hon. Member for Dungarvon. The Hon.
Gentleman had complained that Ireland was not fairly repre-
sented in the Legislature of the United Kingdom ; but he
could distinctly state that this was not the fact. The Hon. and
Learned Member for Bath had charged the landlords of Ire-
land with desiring to shrink from sustaining their share of the
burdens which the exigencies of the times required to be im-
posed on the country. If there was a great financial scheme to
be carried —if measures were to be proposed from which it was
reasonable to anticipate most important benefits would result,
he was sure that the landlords of Ireland would not be found
shrinking from bearing their part of the national burden. But
the Right Hon. Baronet,when he brought forward the income-
tax, thought it was expedient that it should not be extended to
Ireland. What did the Hon. Member for B,th propose? He
proposed to do one of two things—he either proposed to tax
the real property of Ireland, or else he proposed to tax the
whole of thecountry. Now if it were merely the landed property
in Ireland which lie proposed to tax, he would tell him that
the national exchequer derived an equivalent for the
income-tax in the stamp duty. But there was another
ground on which it was decided not to extend the
income-tax to Ireland three years ago. There was no
machinery in Ireland by which the tax could be collected. The
expense of its collection would swallow up the larger part of
the sum to be collected ; and he agreed with the Right Hon.
Baronet that the substitution of an equivalent was more ad-
vantageous to the interests of the nation. In the reigns of
Richard 111. and Henry VIIi. a tax of four shillings in the
pound was imposed on the landed proprietors to prevent absen-
teeism. In 1775 the tax was reduced to two shillings in the
pound. But this all equally failed to bring back the landed
proprietors to the country. But the Right Hon. Baronet, in
not extending the income-tax to Ireland, held out an induce-
ment to those whose duty and inclination it ought to be
to reside upon the property, and to minister to the wants of
those whom Providence had committed to their care.
If the Hon. and Learned Member intended to restrict the tax
to the landlords of Ireland, how little would it produce to the
revenue! For was it riot notorious that a great proportion of
the rental of Ireland was paid away in mortgages, and in re-
ducing incumbrances imposed upon the estate• by their ances-
tors? Was it not equally true that these mortgages and in-
cumbrances were paid to persons residing in England, who
paid the income-tax out of them in this country ? He did be-
lieve, then, if they were to extend the income-tax to Ireland,
the returns would not exceed the present proceeds of the stamp
duty. But if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman meant to
any that the tax was to be extended tt,roughout Ireland gene-
rally, he would urge upon him to consider what had been the
peculiar position of that country up to the present time.
What was the state of that country twelve months ago? He
spoke from personal experience when he stated that large
masses were in the habit of being collected—( Hear, hear, from
Sir It. Peep—for the purpose of intimidating the Govern-
ment. It must be remembered, also, that at this time dread-
ful and simultaneous fires occurred, which were accompanied
by the most ominous silence amongst all parties, so as to leave no
doubt who were the originators of them. When be looked at
these cireurestances, and remembered that the judivous esiurse
and the firmness evinces! by her Majesty's government in that
country had restored peace, tranquillity, and happiness, he
thought it unwise to extend a burden to Ireland which would
be productive of no practical good. He spoke from personal
exlierience, and he could assure the House that it would be
an unwise step to adopt the amendment of the Hon. and
Learned Member. Men who a short time ago were engaged
in organising large bodies of men, for the purpose of con-
spiracy, were now laying out their money in improving their
farms, and devoting themselves with no second object to the im-
proving the conditien of the country. When that was the :
case, was it wi-hin the pale of political wisdom to come forward '
and create another source of discord in the country ? As an

Irish Member he most cordially approved of the financial tne;s:
sures proposed by the Government. He believed the propn.7
reductions would improve the manufacturing interests of
coontry, and enlarge th, market 61 the Irish agri rulturi
who were in a great measure deproqlent on the Erglish n
nufacturers.—( Hear, hear, from Sir Robert reel.) he
looked forward to the many gratifying results whichiuc e.
thought the reduction in the duty of cotton would prcanbe
t:.
So far as Ireland was concerned, a greater boon could n
given, for it would encourage their manufactures ; and when
they considered the water power, and the magnificent rivecrosino,
Ireland, might they not hope, at some future time, the rt
merce of .he country would be increased. The western pa
of Ireland was peculiarly adapted for manufacturing purposes,:
but now they were compelled to go to Liverpool fortheir cottot.
He h ?pert, however, to see the time when ships di,e, t tromn the
States of America would he found landing their cargers °, rid
coast of Ireland. Let the House remember the agrieuitni
advantages of Ireland. lie could assure those Hon. Gentle-
men men who talked so much of the absti act
that Ireland would tosses the means of affording this cottftet,,Y
ample and sufficient food, it' they ould only assist, her i
voloping the resources of the country
y would only 11;te
prove her situation. he was sore that, at no disteit dAy,
would be able to minister to the wants of the inereasing
lotion of England. It was his firm conviction that she w", in
principles of free trade,
that
yet be the means of saving this country from being hunthlo
the dust to ask for food from a foreign nation.—( Cheers. )„"
Mr. BELLEW concurred in the latter sentiments of
'e,
Noble Lord, for he believed the resources of Ireland had Pei
been sufficiently developed. lie thought it was in the Pere,'
of her Majesty's Government to make her a flourishing .s.nz
prosperous country.—( Hear, hear.) Becore the incomee;
could be extended to Ireland there were two things t° be it;
sidered—first, that there was an easy mode of colleetiq,oo,
and secondly, that the country was In a prosperous conidettilind
both as regarded agriculture anti manufactures. Be r And
was more of an agricultural than a manufacturing country,a io
they must recollect that only one million of the tax collecteho
England was curoributed by the landed interest. Nell
, to
on strgly did this show the inexpediency of extending this f
Ireland, where two-th rds of she population were engagedingt
culture. Before the union the taxation of Ireland had been three
millions. But what was the fact between that time-"lbeia
lfsol—anti 1807, the taxation of Ireland had been inerlhaeiest
mare than 500,0001. a year. and this he thought a SU to Of
answer to those Hon. Gentlemen who thought that A . g to
this nature should he imposed on that country. In l'etl„nd foe
them this statement, he felt that it was a sufficient gond,es
his opposition to the tax. While such claims were Ted ifl
property, and while Ireland became in this way in";:frring
the debts of Great Britain in an unequal degree, eOnbould
her previous position, was it fair that. a property-t",'„,sei
now be imposed on the country ? He (Mr. Bellew/co os
English gentlemen whether it was right to impose t2Cfrors
Ireland ,-,hen so little c imparativelv had been taken aolJena[;
the taxes imposed upon her ? Much had been said ref?'
the lighter burdens imposed upon Ireland,
soiree of encouragement for absentees.—( Hear, het.''')the se-
he felt assured that all those who were intimate with
~eh
tual position of that country, would be aware that A° 5,.." t the
ference could fairly be drawn, and he did not think ojlB
Hon. anti Learned Member for Bath had exercised 100
discretion in now pressing this tax on the country, °TI 0600
so much had already been imposed which she was not
to bear.
Mr. NEWDIGATE said that he would not troll opal
upon the House, and that he would not have tresliaLlee Von'
them at all, were it not that he did not think that t!', to the
Gentlemen with whom he acted ought tamely to Oho,'" Hong
calumnies which had been heaped upon them hY `iiittleeu
Member for Bath. Calumnies which he felt for himself the
—and he did not doubt but other Members on his sid °Ole'
as if that 040
House felt the same—were as gross a- they were noodled
and mistimed, foul, and invidious, and tinjust.fiable.-,), the
cries of " Hear, hear," " Order," " Chair," during ";bir
Hon. Member attempted for a short time to proceed.) 0000
Mr. C. BULLER said that the use of such an elrLeylet°e;
foul calumnies was clearly contrary to the usage of t'sfelnhe.
and such as could not be tolerated when used by on
‘,
towards another, anti he protested ag t•t
Mr. GREENE said that ;he Hon'. sM'em. ber was fe„•t:tor
out of order, in the use of the expressions which he had j-
plied to the speech of the Hon. Member for Bath• nose, (or
Mr. NEWDIGATE begged to apologise to the ric'eoiol4
the words which had just fallen from him, but the elPrthst
of the Hon. Member for Bath had been so strong, Cosi
felt hound to meet them with terms equally strong'
meted ass he was with the county with which .t".loffe',
Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government wat‘
concerned, he would have been glad to hear his loth ",74
tion of the question which the Hon. Member for He
brought forward, and the position which he took tll'•
think that if a property-tax we, eto be imposed ths
it would be one way of reaching the absentees from
country. But this he thought would he a miserabi',
and if the Honourable Member for Bath at ten-1147,0d I's
way to enlist the Members with whom he acted, he b;e„ht of lyt
would he disappointed, and if he wished, like the thong,
Mancha, to attack windmills, he (Mr. Nevotligatei for
that he could not have taken a more eff-ctive course rt
curing his object —( Hear, hear, and laughter.) this
Mr. AIIJINTZ said, that nothing had been said °n; fluent' os
of the subject by which Hon. Members should 4,1,00!""
When he saw that gentlemen connected with 'relent, ~,so
there and enjoy the great remission of taxes whie„thiajis
joyed by the people of that country, and then give..„n; t i° (or
it, he did think that there was no sufficient argot 4
replies to what had been alleged by the Hon. raid g 0 slli,
Bath, and when he saw that those gentlemen °lid tiOos
take such large sums from that country, and Op" a illAro
various parts of Europe, he felt assured, that next Othe ne
absenteeism an imposition on realised property wi°
best tax. aid
Mr. ROEBUCK said the best argument which e'ofolie
sibly be adduced of correctness in debate was the loss 0
temper.—(" Oh, oh," and disapprobation.) the ilotto
Sir H. BARRON said that he felt assured that joh h,,1
would feel that the Hon. anti Learned Member for t. ente.r to
totally failed in establishing his results. Before °,ettise 11!),
upon the main question, he would beg to show the res fit Led,
which the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath hattylosit
with respect to the attendance of Irish Members in lb% r, then
He, would beg to assure the Hon. and Learned 3ler°
ble
when he imputed the absence of those Members tort
11111
than the real cause, that he evinced only gross an et Ifi-at
ignorance of the characters of those vrhoin he Ins4,,ettlksti
that he used expressions in their absence which he A he 01,a
dare to utter if those g
entlemen were p aresent ;
that Hon. Member to repeat the expressions wl" 00`.je
used, when those Hon. Gentlemen were present.--„
of " Hear, hear," " Order, order," Chair, chair. ge-'
The CHAIRMAN interposed, and said that the 000'
tts.
ber was out of order. Lescor?

Sir H. BARRON said, that what the Hon. ant'„tio 'die
Member said with respect to those Irish Members ~. to 'die
absent was incorrect. But he would now court&Peps
facts ; and in giving those facts, he would loots1,,;11
upon any opinion of his own, on the bat "dis
of this or that man, either in or out of the Hons°'tecl flt the
returns laid, by order of a , elect Committee appoin before
nit,
purpose, on the table of that House. Before It3ol--bi of 1,,,e1
union with this country took place—the Funded pe, 'debt tie
land was 450,000,000/., and, in the year 1816, thilse titufsee bt p
increased to 764.000,0001. The :rish Debt at ,t,' this .I'-ti,
first mentioned was only 28,000,0001., but, in 18,."brest130d
had accumulated to 118,000,000/. The Debt 01 tof 10,p
tam had not been doubled in that time, while that PIO,' a
i cl. art
had absolutely quadrupled within the same pert° ,erred
.sse
return for this burden, what benefits had been eon 'silo re,
ay
Ireland in the wor taxation? Wh betweeunsd l'eer't "1
1842, as much as 40.000,000/. of annual ty, axation e- 000, di
rni'ted to Etieland ; while, in Ireland, the wh"le iitssent-bit
relief had been only 2.00, i• 00/., or hardly orie.d te lent
part of the remission. of taxes which had been pis
tee,reea'ea.
country. At the time the union took place, the
t,67o.arsoet
entered into was, that Ireland should bear ~e, eet
teenths of the whole taxation of the rnill.e et bass
what had been the case? Had this
agree
„o
adhered to ? No, the amount actually cnt Pr' os
2,-0 1,0001. of Ireland, for 15,000,0001. for "reod wh?iielite
Mr. Foster, a man of the highest attainments, arords3t al
speaker of the Irish House of Commons, and a"' ties, bAntbiS
of that country, loudly appealed against the inJus 'd-, An ,W
vain. He knew something of the state M Irelan to be, ea
toatios.,ooo,l.: be
was the deliberate opinion of one whose word
tw:as„objeee',.o
to which
Hansard's he e professed
Debatesto s pheea k
found. - (
pentled on, and not of one perfectly ignorant of ue; refecd
which had been 440,000/. was increased in 1810 t°,o ationi,ite
and in 1816 to 5,760,000/. Another authoritl loess bib'
lletharal thheear.) 99" °I iren°llb
would refer was Lord Fitzgerald. No one Wh°,oiitiCt.l4 in
( Sir ff. Barrow) would suspect him of any strettlg_4-iree ;"0. bolli
for that nobleman, and he might, therefore,
_.'n on r ill
citin,z him as an authority he was citing
the nottleeeisei
all might depend for evidence on ,yt nob 106;
hand. He would refer to a letter of "" in a pain
"hick had been written t i Mr. Foster' Reign trete,
That. Noble Lord then stated that the peonleenft to pAY s,oeo
45 000,000/. of taxes mare than she contract
_55 ot.'er so
time of the unions; and yet it was said she
ewd 01,00ne oss
enough ; that the income-tax ought to be niae,ao. otO°4
it was the only panacea for all the ills of Irei to node 1100'
confident that every gentleman in the Home wn of theos iti
the question would vote against the propositioht
there win%
Member for Bath.—( Hear, hear.) No theug
00, in s_ t itt,
the condition of Ireland that which justified all
_I, , rt?o,,, el
wa peal,
that the income-tax, as it respected Ireland, _ sod
ne
laid on a e 0
0,
politic and unjust tax. If they hail not .
~, bay
„I i
taxation on Ireland they would, in his opin:i rcguire'r, they
more than their withdrawing er, hear.) Ire' t front h.,' coo',
'movement, for by the ParlillonVorde. thelinty 0
had withdrawn a great number of rich I w_te the!, con'
flexions and friends.—( Hear, hear.) It
.wncose the ire',
Enland to make many sacrifices in order to
..
n"t 00,otor. 0
dition of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) At the fee ea out :1,,/ilf
not 90 0 be&
land was over-taxed; there 7." as
..h w d WI els
Europe with her resources wh" crew to
taxed as Ireland. The landlords of in,,_l2 plaeel it the,
greatly injured by the alterations that had
_t.ssa:,,_factiotnt, tilt.
tithes, added to which there was a strong (11 . h"; to, e too a
present moment at the state of Ireland; unndifferettees a free,:
the time was not far distant when all OM _ happy 5n.,,,,, tt
be laid aside, and Ireland would again beeree_
~"erbsp_see"; too
Ireland could be governed by the heart earetiarntr had hoosertilre
could by the sword.—(Hear, hear.)
true that !hre's° t t
greatly taxed.—( Hear, hear.) It was
bout t° .fleione" ;
Foca had no found that out, and were an_ comosissenidhsv
grant for education. They had also
usnetrty, a
but • w hese. )to
inquire into the state of land in that counner......( H eaire'n 1 tei I ,00
been much better if they had done it s was eamersber.
anything
Colonel CON OILY thought if .von,
~
: : of the sr
injure Ireland it was the proposition •I it .t
Bath. ,-7FR sa" rtln
cHE-,- ".houid re. •oo
The CHANCELLOR of the EXA that he. ' bis ol'lto
impossible, holding the situation he
withoutdid, stating ._dineut, _
this question to come to a decision „houia 11:::ought i";
with respect to it. Whatever credit
of ,0 bac
not
_ive ha,
give the Hon. and Learned Gcntlem. WO"nlit 1;4.6 ba,
4 ' • Which " ass
matter forward on many occasions,
nuer
in
eatet a
04
credit for much skill, or the
Imlacreate the groesequeoC r,
brought a subject forward that wow (t disastrous. celf._.( fle.av
tisfaction in Ireland, and the most
country str°fnesoin
perhaps endangering the peace' ,
~,,,ressed ''slenilwes oobl
hear.) The Hon. Gentleman Ilan ' 1-
of the Irish ~ Ile °ear
with respect to the absence of manuYn
,Lnt subject.
,lit it 0, :0
that House during the discussioot.
a.:',ot he th
)linKs weuldth'it
give no opinion with respe:ct to
Horse
T "
of Corin(rests of et
could he slab that the British Ict the inn
te
woulti trretn
consegeetice of that absence. neglect
niffht they w
ed libel's
country. He was satisfied that
bc,„„°° had air.s,_ grin ale
to the people of Ireland, and thoge,eunee
or .i n t 0
1 040 Thee-
selves from the House, that theyer House 0 d,s
1 'to the t,'' was
was not necessary to enforce the
ow „
He now -an:heeler '-
_to
people of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) namely, iocone joi-
di.oe subject before the lions
p_,,,,,,,e
isenar.) idditien
expedient that they shoul
ll._ ,r„.;,l'ae, I
the e()°,i one
on real property in Irelanie
for
n
uided bY,,,, „hice %lite,
posing all taxes, they must -
..„, they roii.:.(,ll_, is re „ii,
anal cmcu,nstances of each country; ol_nai. 5y0ut_te0".,,,,,,,5e,0 :be
a tax that though it appeared to,ln iejl4.2 „e • Iv_.i.iri:,s ttt `io,
very unequal and v,ry iinjicit.
.1 :'_'ete'd I,:, 1 qt.
ult of 1140414
income-tax for England, lie haLet,':ide. The rests, that
o,oold
subject of an income-tax in Ir
.Ig, irnpo,o a.„_nbecier i
ivy
quiry was that, though they I "
returnsm to rho 14 EtiglaThest,
prove a heavy burden, yet the ,
silt pitent. _i--('
rabbis,
6
be little, if anything, more than ,
,4 taxation to
ey a " stom
had long baen subject to a - ,b eo aecu , et ) eta
' hey ha° e . Ana r bad et!
hear," and laughter. ) r , by direc. they 00-,
large amount of revenue, PartlY this eonntrY the vel,oo'
direct taxation, and throughout 1, iv' tax.
.., ir
fro
.e
blished a machinery ftr collecting t . 04,(1 upo',o6 u
never been 1P ot 01 '
taxes, and others, that had ter woo
Therefore wo could hero collect a grea •