Star.
London, England, 1808-03-04 00:00:00

MR. 301124 GIFFARD.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT, pursuant to his notice of
yesterday, rose to move for certain documents relat-
ing to the appointment of John Gifford, Esck to the
office of Accountant-General. As Mr. Gifford had
been dismissed from an inferior situation in the Irish
Revenue by Lord Hardwicke, and as he had been
raised by the present Government of Ireland to a
higher situation, it was desirable to know what were
the grounds of procedure in both cases, in order that
the House might judge of both transactions. The
Honotlrable Baronet, therefore, moved for a copy of
the patent which appointed Mr. Gifford to his present
situation, and for sonic account how the said situ-
ation became vacant, and also for copies of such
letters and papers as. related to the dismissal of Mr.
Giffard by Lord Hardwicke.
Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY said, the Honour-
able Baronet had assigned no grounds for the produc-
tion of those Papers • he had not stated any -miscon-
duct on the part of Mr. Gifford,nor any circumstance
that could render him ineligible to fill his situation ;
nor any impropriety in the conduct of the Lord Lieu-
tenant of Ireland, to render that appointment a fit
subject for Parliamentary discussion.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT replied, that as the dis-
missal of Mr. Giffard by Lord Hardwicke was in
consequence of his constant and jealous endeavours
to excite variance and discord between the Protestants
and Roman Catholics of Ireland, his present higher
appointment by the present Chief Governor of Ire-
land, rendered it necessary to enquire whether it was
the principle of the Noble Duke's government to re-
.
rive that discord which it had been the endeavour of
Lord Hardwice to remove, by cherishing and re-
storing to favour the persons who were the chief Fo-
moters of such discords.
Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY said, Ile knew
not that Mr. Gifford was the kind of agitator de-.
scribed by the Honourable Baronet. When he him-
self was appointed to his present office, applicatisn
was made to him le Mr. Giffard, who stated his dis-
missal by Lord Hardwicke, and complained of the
injury he had sustained as very oppressive: The No-
ble Lord, he doubted not, had such motives for his
conduct as he conceived to justify the proceeding
but knowing, as he himself had long done, Mr. ad-
fard to be an old and faithful servant to the Govern.
ment of the country ' • and never having heard any
thing objectionable in his official conduct, he did not
consider that it was a bar to his being employed in an
active situation, merely because his private opinions
' were opposed to those of the Right Hon. Baronet,
upon a subject on which there were very strong dif-
ferences of opinion in that country. He, therefore,
when the situation in qiiestion became vacant, did not
hesitate to recommend Mr. Giffard to his:Excellency
for the appointment ; and he did not think it very
usual for the House to interfere with his Majesty's
Government, in appointing its own Civil Oilicers,
upon such grounds as those stated by the Honourable
Baronet. _ _ •

Mr. CROKER rose to explain the transaction
which led to the dismis.:.t': if Mr. Gifford, and which
he thought ':remelt' harsh and oppressive, although
he diffcre -ntirely from Mr. Guard's opinion upon
the poli,cal subject to which allusion had been made.
Mi. Gifford, who held an office tinder the Board of
Customs in Dublin, was also a Member of the Com-
mon Council of that city, and in that capacity he did,
as he conceived he had a right to do, speak against
what is called the Catholic Emancipation, then about
to be brought before Parliament, and did exert himself
in promoting a petition from the Corporation against
it. This was .4 the very head and front of his of-
fending," and for this he was avowedly dismissed from
his employment; but he hoped that no friend to the
right of petitioning would say that such a proceeding
was not unjust. 41
-le had authority to assert, that
; the late Mr. Fox had spoken of this transaction as
extremely harsh and oppressive, and expressed his
decided opinion that Mr. Gifford merited a compen-
sation. _ -

Mr. GEORGE PONSONBY vras convinced, that
the dismission of Mr. Giffard was by no means in
consequence of his exercise of any right he possessed
as a member of the Corporation of Dublin, but for
his unceasing exertions every where to sow dissention
and discord between the two great classes of his Ma-
jesty's Irish subjects. He (Mr. Ponsonby) had
scarcely any intercourse with his Lordship, (Lord
Hardwicke) although formerly honoured with his in-
timacy ; but from what he knew of the Noble Lord's
character, he was convinced there was no man less
likely to do an 'oppressive act. But if no ground had
been established, the very speech of the Hon. Gentle.
man who had last spoke stated ample reasons for the
proposed enquiry. Begging the Honourable Gentle-
man s pardon, he had committed a sort of bull in this
business ; for his own speech stated the very gronru3s
' for producing the papers, for the alledged want of
which he. gave his vote aga:ist the motion, for he had
termed the conduct of Lord Hardwicke rash, inconsi-
derate, and oppressive. The fact was, that the for-
mer Irish Government, reasonably apprehending that
they might be considered countenancing the conduct
I of this man, as influencing animosities and discus-
! :ions between the Protestants and Catholics of Ireland,
dismissed him. 'He would not pretend to say whether
the restoration of Mr. Giffard was meant to be consi-
' deied as an example of a new system of Governinent
directly the reverse of that under Lord Hardwicke : bat
if it were so, they *could scarcely have done any thing
more offensive ; o the great majority of the people.—
With respect to what had been stated of Mr. Fox's
I opinion, he had been •bOnoured with the confidence of
that great man npon ths subject of Ireland, and every
thing' rich relatect.tctits Government, and he never
heart:lQ/a utter a Single tittle of what had been stated:
' and he also knew it to be his opinion, that the con-
duck of LOrd Hardwicke,.in Ireland, had been conci-
Eatery and iMPartial, •
• Mr. MAURICE VITZGERALD vindicated the.
I conduct of Lord Ilardwicke's Govornment in this in-
stance: He; rose; Merely to state what he knew of his
Lcciship'sGovecnincrit,wkiCh was uniformly
1 tory and impart4l. The di scii siion iu question proceeded

from no wish to interfere with the exercise of corpo-
rate rights, but from a desire to vindicate the Govern-
ment against the suspicion of countenancing the out-
1-ageous conduct of a man constantly pretending to
!the confidence of the Government. He therefore
thought the production of the papers necessary to Yin-
, dicate Lord Hardwicke's conduct, and to ascertain
the principles of the present Administration.
Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY explained, that
the salary of Mr. Giffard's former effice was seven
bandred pounds a year, and of his present appoint-
ment about 1001. less.
Dr. DUIGENAN maintained, that it was the part
taken by his respectable friend, Mr. Giffard, in the
Corporation of Dublin, in support of a petition in fa-
vour of the Protestant Constitution, which occasioned
his dismission. On the morning of the assembly, a
person from the Castle called at Mr. Giffard's house,
to let him know, that if he brought forward his inten-
ded motion that day, Government would act with se-
verity towards him. He was already gone to the
assembly ; and the person who received the message
followed him hither, but too late, for the motion was
made. The very next day he received his dismissal,
and he had it himself from a man named Macdonald,
a Romish merchant, and one of the principal agita-
tors in promoting the Catholic petition, that, when
Lord Hardwicke had told him the next day of Mr.
Giffard's dismissal, his observation to the Noble Lord
was, that the transaction would do great mischief to
the cause, and that the act was rash, and ought to be
retracted. The Learned Doctor then reverted to the
petition, stating it to be in fvour of the whole -pro-
perty a/Ireland, at least the property of in
ifty of the wealth and respectability of the land. Is a
Protestant subject of the King to be cruelly dismissed
his employment ; to be sacrificed to a Romi ;11 mob ;
to have the beggarhood of the country hallooed at ,
him, for promoting a petition to Parliamcn in support
of the Protestant Constitution of his country ? He
contended it was no more than common justice to
restore this injured and persecuted man to his former
place, or a better ' • and he stated, that but for Mr.
Pitt's death, and the consequent change of Admini-
stration, it would have been done since. •
Dr. LAWRENCE said, lie knew nothing per-
sonally of Mr. Giffard, but hoped he was entitled to
a hearing as well as the Learned Doctor. He con-
demned, in strong terms, the language of that Learned
Doctor, in applying the phrase of " hallooing the•
heggarhood of the ceuntry" to three millions of his
Majesty's subjects in Ireland, of all ranks and condi-
tions, from the Peer to the peasant ; while it was ex-
pected, that not a word was to be said against the job
of the Learned Gentleman, for he had avowed the
appointment to be the result of his interference. •
Mr. G RATTAN said, he cor..3idered the motion to
be with a view to censure the conduct of the present
Irish Government, which he, for one, did most de-
cidedly condemn. As to the private character of the
person in question, he would say nothing ; but in his
public character, he had been very zealous in the ex-
citement of religious rancour and animosity, and was
in every way, and not without some ability, a partizan.
The excitement of religious discord in Ireland was at
all times mischievous, but at this time particularly,
dangerous. The great feature of Lord Hardwicke's
Government was conciliation ; and it was that which
influenced him in the dismission. He thought that it
should be a fundamental maxim in the Government of

Ireland, to discourage religious animosity, and to dis-
countenance its promoters • for, if such men were clip-
ported and paid by the Government, this c )liduct
would be charged upon the Government itself. He
considered, therefore, the re-appointment of), I r. Gi Ward
to a lucrative situation an act of great imprudence,
if not of extreme folly.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
in reply, said, that, though he might not approve of
all the expressions that had been ned by his Learned
Friend, he should never be deterred from supporting,
to the best.of his abilities, the interests of our esta-
blishments, by any cry raised against him of bigotry
and fanaticism ; and on this point he should leave his
character to be judged of by his country at large, sa-
tisfied in his own mind that he had no wish to origi-
nate religious animosities. He wished, however, to
deprecate as much as possible the introduction of sub-
jects which had no necessary connection with the
point before the House, and which generally gave rise
to such violence and altercation. With regard to the
question, he thought thatthe grounds of Mr. Giffard's
dismissal and re-appointment were sufficiently before
the House, in consequence of the discussion which
had taken place, and even more completely than
would be manifested by the production of the papers,
which in all probability contained merely the simple
facts, and not the grounds on which they took place.
In that point of view, he thought the motion ought
to be resisted, and more particularly as there was no
charge of corruption, or of mal-administration. All
that was alledged against him was, that being a mem-
ber. of a Protestant Corporation, he had moveik;
counter petition, in opposition to a measure which he
considered as a pernicious innovation.
Dr. LAWRENCE, in explanation, said, that he
respected the Right Honourable Gentleman, the
more for boldly avowing his opinions, although they
were opinions in which he could not coincide.
Lord H. PETTY thought that it was laying suffi-
cient grounds for the discussion of this question, to
say, that it was brought forward for the purpose of
criminating the Duke of Richmond, who had thought
proper to act in this respect in opposition to the con-
duct of Lord Hardwicke. The Government of
Lord Hardwicke in Ireland -was a Government re-
markable for its justice, its mildness, and its libera-
lity ; and in that spirit of mildness and liberality it
had thought proper to remove from an office under
the Crown, a man who had been a great fomenter of
religious discord, and who had always used the most
opprobrious and insulting language towards the Ca-
tholics of Ireland. It was not for a single vote upon
. one occasion that he lost his place, but because he
had adopted a uniform system of strife, both in the
Corporation of which he was a member, and in every
situation in which he could act, to vilify and irritate a
considefable proportion of the population of 'Marc/.
' For this it appeared to Lore Hardwicke that it was
improper that such a man should be held out to the
country as holding an office under Government ; but
as the Duke of Richmond had decided otherwise,
and thought this man, ileserving of reward, it be-
' came an important question, because it seemed as if a
newMr.stem Was now to ke pursued.
system
ROSE believed that this was the very first time

that the removal of a Revenue Officer was conddov
A subject fit for parliamentary discussion.
Mr. W. SMITH conceived, that as the Riglstß
nourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of the pm!'
quer) had expressed so great a desire of having-7.4
subject discussed with temper, he must have had
mite pleasure and delight in hearing the temper
which it had been discussed by an HonontAie""
Learned Friend who sat behind him (Dr. Doi a4li
The calling three-fourths of the population ofN
“ the beggary of the country," was a phrase 44
liarly conciliating. He understood, that it wasPera not
merely in his corporate situation that Mr. Giffardhoj
fomented religious discord, but much more in his 4.
pacity as editor of a newspaper.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT replied at some hum],
and condemned severely that irritating and offers;
language which Mr. Girard had constantly nsad to,
wards the Catholics, both in the Corporation of D.
lin, and in the newspaper which he conducted.
thought that such a man was ar. improper per to
hold an office under Government.
A division then took place. For tlia motion,s7;
againt it, 103. Majority, 46.

ROCHYFORT EIIt:ADRON.
Mr. CALCRAFT considered that he should be
neglecting his duty to his country, if he did not eo,
dearour to institute a public enquiry into the circura
stances connected with the escape of the French squa:
dron horn Rochefort. He considered that the inability
of Sir R. Strachan to pursue them was owinz to th;
neglect of the Board of Admiralty ; and he could
expect nothing but failures from that Board as Ilya;
now constituted. At the head of the Admi-alty he Saw
a Nobleman (Lord Mulgrave), whom he considered
as inexperienced and as unfit a man to be at the bead
of that Board, as any person that could be found hi
the whole country. From the man who thoughtpro.
Vet, in 1805, to exeose to the whole world the molt
confidential communications between the Govenu
of this (*entry and of Austria, he could note/pea
a sounder judgment in any thing than he had shell
in the selection of Admiral Gambier, and in rnaaj •
other points connected with the Copenhagen midi.
tion. From such a First Lord of the Admiralty, he
could expect no better attention to our bl
squadrons than that which the fleet under Sirlia4A
Strachan had experienced. The circumstances ofibe
case, according to general report, and the inform.
tion that he had received was this : Sir Richard Sea.
chap was obliged to leave the anchorage he had take'
in Basques Roads, for want of provisions, edtidt
ought to have been furnished to him from the Maui.
rally. He was obliged to take a considerable offmg,
and cruize for those ships which he expected to arrive
with provisions. At length they did meet with de
Superb, the Colossus, and the Mediator, but, be.,
they could supply themselves with provisiom, the
French squadron had sailed, and they were not stir
ciently victualled to be able to pursue them. He us.
derstood, that even the supply which thelastreceival
from the Mediator, was not sufficient, and that ha
was obliged to look for the Ferrol fleet, and take
from them any thing which they could spare, before
he was in a condition to pursue the enemy. It app
peared to him, that in this neglect of the squadron
blockading Rochefort, the common routine of the
Admiralty had been lost sight of, for the regular re.
lievaig our blockading squadrons was a matter al.
most of routine, and only required that common vi.
gilance which was to be expected in every board of
Admiralty. He could not conceive an excuse for the
Admiralty, as he knew that the wind had been fait
for a considerable part of the time. There was as
service more, fatiguing and less encouraging, that
that of blockading an enemy's port; but it must be ti
heart-breaking.reflection, indeed, to our gallant cow.'
trymen employed upon this irksome duty, to thinkl
that they were neglected by the Admiralty, Antis
duty it was to supply their wants. Sir Rides*
Strachan had taken his position within three or
miles of the Rochefort squadron; It must have
a heart breaking thing to him, to be obliged to lea
so advantageous a situation, merely through want
provisions. If he had been supplied as he ought
have been, it was highly probable that he would h
added another laurel to his fame. Why he had

been r...) supplied, was a subject which he thou
it was absolutely necessary for Parliament to inqu
into ; and in bringing forward a motion for such
inquiry, he hoped it would not be said that he
merely bringing forward motions to harass M.
Unless Ministers apprehended some danger from
production of these papers, he did not see on libat
pretence they could be refused. He underst
however, that -some of the papers were to be grameas
and others not. In moving for extracts of the
of Lord Gardner and Sir Richard Strachan,4is
not wish any ether disclosure but that which
to the object of his motion, the state of that fleet ass°
provisions and water. He concluded by moving,
Fora list of the ships that were under the orders of Rear Asi•
miral Sir Richard Straehan on the ist of December, Ist lanwltTo
and Ist February last stating against each the time when he last
walla from port, and time for which he was then victualled
For Copies of all the Accounts, commonly called WcekllA°'
counts, received from Sir Richard Strachau, between the Ist No
eemher and Slit January.
For copies or extracts of all letters received by the AdrAndia_ ,
or Lord Gardner, from Sir Richard Strachan, between the Ng
November and 31st January, relative to the state of provide*
andsertite, on board the ships under his orders, or which 111414
stollats.actual or probablenecessity he might be under (drill.'
the crews oh. short allowance.
iccount, chewing'the time during which the tifehkeir..
or aliy of the ships under Rear Admiral Sir Richard Seadell.
were at'short allawancii, and of what species of provisions.
For copies or extracts of all letters received by the Admirskll
or Lord Gardner, from Sir Richard Strachan, stating any ram.
which had compelled him to leave the port of Rochefort Oil' et
the escape of the French fleet on the 18th of January last : and eg
any letters which might state the necessity he had been under of
cabin provisions or water from the ships off Ferrol
Mr. WELLESLEY POLE was ready to give
every information the House could desire upon Ng
subject, for the purpose of exhibiting at once a fun
and clear view of the -conduct of •the Admiralty on
this occasion. That is, every thing concerning the
state and condition of the squadron under the com-
mand of Sir R. Strachan—the time and manlier
of its being supplied, and every thing else, erreig
part of the correspondence between that gallant Of-
i:er and Lord Gardner, and the Lords of the Ad.
thiralty, giving opinions on the subject of our
fleets and those of the enemy,- because such docu-
ments were of a nature which would carry idol"'
tion to the enemy which it was not adviseable to be
given.—( Hear ! hear! hear !) He was anxious to
state at once the situation in which Sir Richard
Strachan's squadron stood on the day the enemy n'u.

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to l'inife left It ochefort. Upon that subject
.e not where the Hon. Gentleman had his
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bawo but the last that Government had from
Strachan, was dated on the 18th
which was the day after the escape of the
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nadron, and then that gallant Officer had
provision of bread, provisions of every kind
Xl4 weeks, and 6 weeks and 5 days water.
Oa
r Mediator was
sent out under the direction of
fliralt, lay order issued on the 3d of Decem-
B
which
order was forwarded immediately to
' „th ; but although the order was issued then,
wing out could not take place immediately, it
impracticable to load the ship until the 21st; and
am was loaded, she could not sail until the 6th
January on account of tempests. The Mediator
At Sir Richard Strachan, besides dry provato
i-
., °2 Marge assortoient of vegetables of all kinds,
olive bullocks for his squadron ; so that every
were taken for the relief of that squadron.
these, there were two line of battle ships sent
ts rebel; the Lavinia, with six months' provisions,
the coruheeland, one of the finest 74's in the
aR The provision-arrived on the 23d, and what
„ d surprise the Hon. Gentleman stal more than
button yet surprised, was this, that although the
dui and the Superb arrived with a transport
aeo .isith provisions for his squadron on the lad,
strachan allowed her to return to Plymouth
it It
~tit unloading her cargo ; did he thexefore say
e squadron Rases well off as he could have wished?
,T Do means ; but he knew he could have followed
e eoemy without unloading this ship, which if he
d been in the distress the Honourable Gentleman
,Dosed,itwould have been his duty to unload. Put
'troth was, that, although Sir R. Strachan had re-
'yea pri:ate intelligence on the 23d of the sailing
.the Rochefort Squadron on the ISth, he had rea-
, to doubt the authenticity cf the intelligence ; and it
not until the 29th that he had information of that
it, such as he thought it safe to rely upon. As to
• IL Strachan's being obliged to go into Ferrol, ow
count of his being unable to follow the enemy fat
,t of provisions. that he utterly denied. There
not the least foundation for that assertion. After
e had the genuine information upon which he did
it became impossible for him to sail inletcliately,
, mount of violent gales, such as aaivied way his
toioyards and it was owing to these inevitable ac-
dbenti the enemy were indebted for their escape.--
t en the Baltic fleet arrived at Spithead on the 13th
ed 16th of November, one half of their crews were
elided among the prizes. In the month of Novae.
et, twelve ships of the line were at St. Helen's, to
catch the Russian squadron ; eleven ships of the line
'ere under Sir Sidney Smith in the Tagus ; and four
kips of the line with that excell:nt Officer Sir Samuel
Hood. He then detailed the means which were
red to supply the squadron of Sir Richard Strachan.
The West-Indies were saved, Madeira was secured,
and a sufficient force detached across the Atlantic
tolook after the Gentlemen in America, if they
wet at all disposed to be troublesome.—(.X laugh. )
Before he had known the nature of the Hon. Gentle-
=emotion, he had intended to move some of a
hrtesclency ; viz. for Copies of all Orders issued by the
admiralty for the relief of the Squadron under Sir R.
man; also Copies of such Orders as have been
Oita by Acknirals Gardner and Young on the sub-
let, dtc. lie then descrihea the usual course of block-
s ng squadrons, which were under the command of.
the Admiral of the Channel Fleet. In this case, it had
been thought necessary, from extraordinary circum-
stances, for the Admiralty to interfere, although there
cas no: a doubt that Lord Gardner had done his

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dray Perfectly.
Lord TEMPLE did not think the Resolutions pro-
toad by the Honourable Gentleman would supply
the information required by his Honourable Friend,
beam they do ,iot include the letter of Sir R. Stra-
den to the Admiralty, requesting relief. By the
wry extraordinary mode of defence set up by the
Honourable Gentleman opposite, he had contrived
entirely to keep out of sight the principal charge—
& destitute state of Sir R. Strachants Squadron,
which enabled the Ftench fleet to put to sea.
Lord CASTLEREAGH stated, that the Adrian
otter had sailed 'with victuallers on the 14th Novem-
ber, and had arrived on the 30th.
.Mr. W. POLE stated, that the Colossus and Glav
data had:joined the fleet on the 12th, and the French
squadron did not come out till the 18th January.--
Our squadron and the Colossus did not communicate
till the 18th, and, on account of foul weather, the
Mediator was not cleared till the 19th.
Mr. CALCRAFT considered the present Board of
Admiralty as a very inefficient body. He particularly
censured an appointment of theirs which had given
great discontent in the Navy—(Hear ! hear ! hear !
)
The appoinunent of Sir Home Popham, as Cap'
tvt or the Fleet, over the heads of senior and meri-
torious officers, after the sentence of a Court Martial,
most be considered as a reprehensible and most inju-
dims act, ripOri the Gentlemen's own skewing.—
When the papers were Laid on the table, he would
engage to prove that there was a most culpable ne-
glect. The Gentlemen mule a great
o para
men de, and
boasted of doing what any. tualz, or set f might
easily do, having the British nays:lwesources at his or
their disposal. It was one of the immediate effects
of the escape of the enemy that Sir J. Duckworth
was obliged to unblockade Brest. He had been re-
proached with not having submitted his motions to
the Admiralty. What ! was it to be tolerated that a
Member of that House should be told he did wrong
in submitting any motion to it without having first
consulted the Admiralty ? He would not say that
it
was indecent, because it was a sort of language of
which he did not approve ; but he thought it deserv-
ed the epithet better than that part of his own conduct
to which it had been applied. He did chew the Ha
nonrable Gentleman hs Motions. He had made
every communication to him that civility required,
and more than he was under any obligation of doing.
—On the particular merits of the question he would
reserve himself till the papers were produced.
The subject was then for the present dropt.
COMIVNICATION TO ALLITS,
I ord H. PETTY rose, pursuant to a notice he bad gives
en a former occaslon ; the subject, he said, V:11 important,
.t it was nnected with the Orders in Council. it was, he
maintained, contrary to the common usage Or this country, to
lay unties or. articles betnnglit by compuicion to the ports of this
inedvna. Since the first introduction of this Bill nd information
boen Risen to the Honk!, respecting the way which these Ot-
ters tad been received, either by Sweden or Sardinia, because
she measure we equally As inuricso to our allies as to the enemy,

*

int' saying to them—" Ybu shall hire iiiiiiiieliktieitit iiii 40.
Lion bufCchat is agreeabie to us." It is dielketent of this celes-
tes, to encourage comerieree, instead et afebiorik Suppose for It
moment that Sweden would think k td ehcourage the
Americans to trade witu her and . Obi articles on which we
have laid in per cent. duty, gratis, t us of the folds%
prospects held forth by Ministers, who ameed to be blind to
every thing, in order to carry Into execution their favourite pro-
-1 jectj he therefore felt it his duty to call for what informe-
r tion Ministers had received from our Allies respecting the Or-
ders in Council, and moved, " That an Address be presented to
his Majesty, that he would be graciously pleased to cause to be
laid before that House the substance of any communication re-
ceived from his Allies in Europe, relative to the Orders of the 11th'
of Noiember."
The VHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER felt no difficulty
in meetor this question, and could assure the House that Sweden
cordially agreed with this country in supporting a measure so well
calculated to distress the enemy i he concluded with opposing the
motion.
Sir A. TIGOTT supported the motion, and contended that
Sweden would,in all probability, see her interest in making a di
pot for the very articles which the bill restricted.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained.
Mr. PONSONBY denied that Ministers had received any in-
formation from MT remaining allies. How could Sweden or Sar-
dinia communicate on a subject which Ministers themselves could
not comprehend
Mr. Secretary CANNING said, that the Hon. Gentleman bad
conceived Sweden and Sardinia to be allies, and gone off with a
grand effusion about the inherit s which the nations of the Conti.
sent were to expect from an alliance with Great Britain. Now
the fact was, that Sardinia was strictly a neutral. (Lord Temple
observed that they had sent an Atnbassador there.) Does the Noble
Lord mean to say, that *e are hot to sead Ambassadors to neu.
trots ? No such demand had been made of Sardinia, for the rea-
son that she was a neutral. Sweden had given the assurance men
tioned by his Right Hon. Friend.
Mr. PONSONBY explained.
Dr. LAWRENCE could not collect from what had fallen from
the Right Honourable Gentleman, or his colleague, that any com-
munication had b•sen made to bicily. He hops d Ministers had Iv t
forgotten tiurDey of Algiers in making their communications, as
their
l ts, wasnzuleN sroe ly) muched !ut h a
!the spirit of
the . his =Ant
of ea.n
Am-
bassador to the Court of Sardiniawas not a new appointment. It
was the intention of the last Administration to send a person there.
U Sardinia were to be considered as an independent power, it was
proper that his Majesty should have a Representative there.
Mr. LAMBE made a few observations iu suppott of the motion.
Mr. ROSE said, that the only way in which Su eden could co-
operate was by imposing concurrent dillies, and how could do
that until she ascertained what duties we proposed I
Mr. WHITBREAD asked if Ministers had or bad non ny com-
munication with Sweden, previous to issuing the Orders in Colin.
eil i end whether they bad any, and what assurances, that she
would co-opesate with them in their plan for distressing the Colt-
.

tipeni?
Lord H. PETTY replied generally to the arguments which 11.
been urged against his motion, and a division thereon took plies—
Ayes 71—Noes 130—Majority 59.
LIVERKOL PETITION AGAINST THE ORDERS IN COUNCIL.
General GASCOIGNE, in proposing that the
Petition of his Constluients might be received, as
aured the House that those who sibmed it were of the
most respectable description of merchants, many of
them personally known to him. They did not peti-
tion against prerogative, or the power of laying taxes.
They would feel perfectly satisfied, while the defence
of the Country was entrusted, as heretofore, ton the
gallantry of the Navy and Army; but they canot
conceal their apprehensions at this new mode of corn
mercial warfare. The town which he represents was
more particularly interc.ted in the trade with Ame-
rica. At this moment, three-fourths of the trade
between this Country and America is with Liverpool.
He took a general view of the trade and revenues of
that town. One-third of its whole foreign trade, in-
cluding that with the Baltic, now suspended, is with
America. Considering all these circumstances, he was
astonished they had not petitioned Parliament sooner.
The CHANCELI.OR of the EXCHEQUER
wished to know whether the Petition objected to the
money clause of the present Bill?
General GASCOIGNE was at a loss how to an-
swer that question. He conceived the Petition was
directed against the principle and general provisions
of the
The SPEAKER said, it was against a standhig
rule of the House to receive any petitiun against
money clauses.
Mr. TIERNEY considered the Petition as cne of
the greatest importance. He did not thir.k the prin-
ciple laid down from the Chair applicable to this case.
It was not,the levying of duties, but the general re-
gulations of trade, that were petitioned against. He
had never heard it contended that this measure was
to be looked upon as part of the Ways and Means.
(gear ! hoar /tear ! ) It was only fixing a mode by
which the Order of Council was to have effect.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER de-
fended the rule laid down as consistent with the prac-
tice of the House for a century past. The Bill was
not for supporting so much of the Orders issued in
Council, they existed in force by the King's p rero
r!ge
tive and authority, as the raising duties Hea
firer ! from the Opposition)—that is, said he, to give
effect to the Orders of Council by levying these du-
ties.—(liege ! again frost Oiltarition.) He felt respect
for the petitioners, but .also felt it his duty to oppose
their application, especially as he was conscious he
acted under tl-e respectable sanction of the opinion
given from the Chair.
Mr. PONSONBY said, he really pitied the Right
Honourable Gentleman ; for not a step did he take
in this Bill, but covered him with. difficulties. If
the prerogative had done all that was necessary, why
did he (the Chancellor) bring the Bill into the House?
The Bill was not to raise duties for the current year,
but for carrying into effect the Orders in Council : the
Petition was therefore against the Orders in Council
themselves. But the Right Honourable Chancellor,
with all his arguments, could not argue against the
title of his own Bill—he could not tear the seal from
the bond. Would it not be wise to depart from usage
in this case, where so much depended on the immate-
rial breach ? When a novel measure of thivkind was
ever devised before, the greatest of men were ever
anxious to have every light upon the subject ; but he
was so confident he could not be wrong, that he would
not hear any thing about it. It was the attribute of
wisdom to be accompanied by modesty, and the
Right Honourable Gentleman had shewn less than
was reconcileable with that quality.
Lord CASTLEREAGH had expected more ad-
dress in the leader of the party, than to expose the
weak features of the case to observation, and in
making his retreat to so expose himself to the fire of
his opponents. He saw no analogy between the case
adduced by the Right Hon. Gentleman on the ques- ,
tion of war. He felt extremely overawed by the
Gentleman's mode of address in the commencement,
but was afterwards much indebted t 6 the Right Hon.
Gentleman for what he had said, as it supported the
principle laid down by his Right Hon. Friend. He
saw, he said, no great injury the -merchants of Liver-
pool could particularly sustain by the measure.
Mr. SHERIDAN said he felt none of that awe

ilitided to by the Noble Lot. Wither the begin-
ning, the end, tier the conclusion of the Noble Lord's
speech was calculated to excite airy thing tie awe.
--7-lAluch laughter.) .He contended, that to reuse the
admission of the titian, wrii to shut the door against
the glnribis privileges given to the Flople by the Bill
of Rights, namely, the right of the PeOple to petition
IParliament. He felt teat reptigitance against using
[language at this .crisisto ePress the spirits of the
' Country, like an HonOurable Gentleman on, a former
occasion, holding out that -five millions of .starving
manufacturers were crying for peat*. Setah language
might perhaps turn Ministers a i
nti but i Would cer-
tainly briag Bonaparte in—an alternative which was
the worse of the two evils—(Lid lairener.)
General TARLETON said he was retutned to
Parliament by 1400 voters in Liverpool, the greatest
number that ever polled, and he thought it very odd
that not one of these voters had signed the petition
before the House, nor even intimated any such senti-
ments to hiin as were conveyed in that Petition--;
(Loud laughter)—Nay, not even the chief magistrate
had taken any share in it. It was in fact a party .Pe-
tition, and the Gentleman who presented it was a
very good sort of man, but he was a Sectarian.—
(A laugh)—The Honourable Gentleman who had
lust nit down lial said, that we might turn out Mi-
nisters, but we would turn in Bonaparte • to this he
would add, that such speeches as he had ileard from
the opposition, would turn out the country.—(Loud
and long cceeinucd peals of laughter.) .
Mr. WHI'T'BREAD said, that whatever danger
the country might be in from the conduct of Oppo-
sition, there was one corner of it which he was sure
would be safe. This was Berwick-upon-Tweed, of
which his gallant Friend (General Tarleton) was Gr:
vernor—(Much laughter.)—The gallant General had
for many years graced the Opposition Benches with
his transcendant talents and Ciceronian eloquence,
but he had never told the cause of his change of opi-
nion, unless we are to suppose that there is v_enething
magical in being GoVernor of Berwick.--(Here the
How: was once more convulsed with lan,gker.)—He ar-
gued that the Petition ought to be received.
Mr. HUSKISSON maintair.ed that this was a
mere Money Bill, and that the Petition was therefore
incompetent
Lord H. PETTY argued at great length in favour
of the Petition. It was net the cause of Liverpool
he was arguing, he said, but the cause of Britons,
and of the whole world. Ministers affected to foll3w
Mr. Pitt. They did so in every thing that was bad,
and in nothing that was good.—(Hear! hear!) It
was always contrary to Mr. Pitt's line of policy, to
smother such applications in their infancy, and in
many similar instances he had allowed the Peti-
tioners to be heard by Counsel.
Mr. ROSE replied to the Noble Lord, and con-
tended that the true mercantile interests of tie Coun-
try were consulted in the opposition here given to the
Petition.
Mr. SHERIDAN appealed to the Speaker, if he
had not given his private opinion upon the compe-
tency of receiving this Petition t
The SPEAKER said that hem nceived. he had
two duties to perform, the one prie and the other
public ; it was his duty when consulted privately by
any Member of that House, to give his opinion as to
the proper mode of proceeding, but he did not think
he was called upon to state that opinion publicly.—
(Hear ! hear 1) He -had stated what was the usual
practice of the House in similar cases, and it was for
the House itself and not for him officially to give an
opinion whether this was a money bill or not. He
should therefore put the question, and there was only
one way in which his private opinion could be pub-
licly known, nor would he shrink from the discharge
of his duty, if thus called upon, but he was well aware
he could not be called upon to give his vote, except in
the case of a balanced opinion. (Hear ! hear ! hear ! )
Mr. SHERIDAN apologized. He thought it had
appeared from the debate of this evening, that the
Speaker had given an unfavourable opinion of the
present motion.
The House then divided. For bringing up the
petition, 80 ; against it, 128. Majesty, 46.
Adjourned.

TIIE EVENING STAR.

LONDON.

=-*

FRIDAY, MARCH 4.
PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONF O'CLOCK.
Consols, for money, 631 64—for April, 6414--Reduced 6414
Omnium 31—Exelieq. Bills, par
PRICE OF STOCKS YESTERDAY.
Bank Stock 23114 India Bonds, es. 2s. a 3s. dls.
3 per Cent. Red. Ann. 61141 Imperial 3 per Cent. 63if
3 per Cent. Cons. 631 S 4 Imperial Ann. 71 13-16
4 per Cent. 83 821.1 Ez. Bills, 2s. disils. pre. 2s. die.
5 per Cent. Navy 9751 English Tickets, 211.

By letters from our fleet off Lisbon (tee next page)
it appears that some French ships of war have actu-
ally entered the Mediterranean. Still however doubts
are entertained whether they be the same that sailed
from Rochefort. A few days will probably remove
the present uncertainty.
The Earl Spencer hired cutter arrived at Plymouth
on Wednesday. She left Sicily the 13th January,
passed through the fleet off Cadiz the 12th February.
Sir RICHARD STRACIIAII had arrived with his squadron
at Gibraltar. Our cruizers in the Mediterranean
have captured a Russian frigate and a sloop of war.
The commander and crew of this cutter have no
knowledge of any drench squadron having passed up
the Straits

In regard to what has been reported for several days,
respecting an expedition fitting out at Antwerp, we
are enabled to state, on the authority of a gentleman
who left that city not more than a fortnight since,
that at that time no particular exertions appeared to
be making for any such purpose. Three ships of the
line were nearly ready for launching, and two others
were lying there in a complete state of repair, but
they were altogether unmanned and without stores.
It was understood that these five ships would proceed
to Flushing early
.in the spring, but they were not des-
tined for any particular service. There were but few
troops in the neighbourhood of Antwerp, the greater
. part of those lately stationed there having marched
to reinforce the French army on the frontless of Hol-
stein/ . _

•
THE ARMY:

aikaAL WIMSLOCKE'S TRIAL.
DAYi MARCH 4:
The Court Was
.unustiallY crotideci this niorning;
an account of the fineness bf the. Weather:
Captain Foiniai Strurracocitz't Aid.dcz
Camp, was tinder eiaininatien tuna tWelie o'clock ;
when Capiiin WuriiinanAii; Who iaso acted as Ale;
deCanip, was called in, and he Continued Under
examination when our express left Chelsea: • ..
The Duke of CUsnizar.Ann Was in his place to-day

again.
Yesterday morning marched froni Deal for DoiTr;
the Ist Division of the East York Militia;vihith
Mair.heci in there on Wednesday. afternoon from
Ramsgate i the Sd division of the same R iment
marched into Deal yesterday alftekcion from. -
gate, which are quartered oil tilt town.' . .
',.'he Commanding Officer of the Rearevisbire Mi-
litia received a route, on the 20th Ult. to March fom
their quarters at Playdon Barracks, neat,Rye, SusEevi
to return to their former quarters at Pevensey b. ri
racks, in the same county, and there to remain
Major General Omuta is going out to take the coin=
viand of the British troops an Malta.