The Sun.
London, England, 1842-05-07 00:00:00

THE DUBLIN FREEMEN.

Mr. GREGORY presented a petition from the Conserva-
tives of Dublin, praying that some measure might be adopted
to facilitate the admission of freemen, and to insure the attend-
ance of the Lord flavor when required.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, as the petition referred personally
to himself, he might be allowed the liberty of saying a feW
words respecting it. Since he had been Lord Mayor, he had
admitted 1,400 freemen; but it was not stated that he had
admitted one, except on the proper and legal oath—the late
Lord Mayor admitted 600 in one evening. The petitioners did
not allege that he had not applied the same rule to all parties, or
that he had admitted a single person, or rejected a single per-
son improperly. He, therefore, considered the petition a kind
of public declaration in his behalf.
Mr. GREGORY explained that the petition did not com-
plain of the number admitted on either side, or of the right to
admit them ; it merely prayed for seine measure to facilitate
their admission, and ensure the attendance of the Lord Mayor.
Mr. O'CON NELL said he had omitted one day from illness,
but had any of these parties expressed their desire for his at-
tendance he would have left London for that purpose.
islr. HARDY presented a petition from 4,500 inhabitants of
Bradford, complaining of the excessive labour to which tho
operatives were subjected, with inadequate wages, at some parts
of the year, and of total want of employment at others ; and
praying that the House would agree to a Bill for regulating the
hours of labour.

CORN-LAWS.
Mr. VILLIERS presented several petitions from operative-,
in Staffordshire and Cheshire, praying for the removal of all
restrictions upon the importation of food.
Mr. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH presented several peti•
tions from millers in the county of Tipperary, and other parts
of Ireland, against the importation of foreign flour.
SOUTHAMPTON ELECTION.

Mr. H. BARING moved that a new writ be issued for this
borough of Southampton, the late election from that bo-
rough having been declared void by a Committee of the House.
Mr. WARD said that after the Report which the House had
jest heard at the bar—(Hear, hear)—which made grave alle-
gations not merely against the former Members, but against
a large portion of the constituency, insomuch that
an extensive system of treating and bribery was said
to be locally organised ; he thought that no step ought to
be taken until the House had the evidence before it.—( Hear,
hear. ) The Chairman had moved that the evidence be re-
ported, and until it was reported they ought not to proceed
further in respect to this election, especially when it was recol-
lected that the Committee had three several times to apply to
the House during the inquiry. If there were any doubt
as to the propriety of waiting for the evidence, he would move
that the Report be read by the Clerk at the table, and he would
subsequently move that the motion for a new writ be adjourned.
After a few words from Mr. Baring and Mr. H. [finite, who
seconded Mr. Ward's motion, the Report was read by the Clerk.
Mr. STANLEY said that the Hon. Gentleman who mane
the motion, having alluded to what passed at the Committee,
he begged to say that he made a motion before the Corn-
mittece that the writ be suspended till the evidence was laid
before the House, but he was not supported.
Mr. C. W. WYNN was rising to address the House, when
Mr. BERNAL moved that the Hon. Baronet be allowed to
address the House from his seat.--( Hear, hear.)
Mr. C. W. WYNN said, that as long as he was able to ad-
dress the House on his legs, he thought it was better that he
should conform to the usual course. With regard to the
motion before the House, he thought it better that it should
be adjourned.—( Hear.) He hoped the Hon. Member would
have no objection to adjourn the debate on the issuing of a new
writ till Monday next.
Mr. WARD said that he had no objection. He should
therefore move that it be adjourned till Monday next.
Mr. BARING said the most convenient course for him to
adopt would be to withdraw his motion altogether.
Mr. H. HINDE only wished the House should not act in igno-
rance of the circumstances. The evidence before the Committee
showed that a large sum of money was spent by local associations
before the testing of the writ; and the difficulty was, that if the
issuing of the writ were suspended, an opportunity would be
afforded of practising that very system of treating which it was
their object to put an end to.
The motion was then withdrawn.
NEW WINDSOR ELECTION PETITION.

The SPEAKER informed the House that he had received
notice, on the part of the petitioners against the return for the
borough of New Windsor, that it was not their intention to
prosecute the petition.
Lord F. EGERTON presented a petition (we did not hear
from what place) praying fur au alteration in the Turnpike Act.
Mr. GORDON presented a petition praying for au alters.
tion in the Poor-laws.

Mr. TURNER presented a petition from Cornwall (as we
understood) complaining of the proposed alteration in the duties
on foreign copper ore.
Mr. AGLIUNBY presented a petition from Cockermouth,
against the practice of administering oaths.
Mr. V. SMITH brought up the Report of the National
Breakwater Committee.

Mr. 'F. DUNCOMBE presented petitions from Bromley and
Sheffield in favour of a repeal of the Poor-law Amendment Bill.
Lord WORSLEY presented a petition from a place in
Gloucestershire against the Income-tax.
Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice that he should take an early
opportunity of calling the attention of the House to the state of
the administration of justice in Ireland.
ELECTION PETITIONS.

Mr. ROEBUCK then rose, and said, seeing both the Hon.
Members for Reading in their places, I rise for the purpose
of putting the question of which I have given notice; but
before I do so, Sir, perhaps the House will allow me
to say that in taking this extraordinary course—extraordinary
I know it to be—l am, I think, justified in so doing, by some
very extraordinary circumstances. It has been stated very
generally, that with respect to the election for the town
of Reading, that on the merits of the petition
being tried by the Committee appointed for that purpose, there
I was a compromise agreed to, and it is stated that to that cern-
promise both the Hon. Members now sitting were parties.
Thinking that they would he most anxious to be relieved from
the imputation connected with such a transaction, and
desirous of maintaining the purity of this House, I
thought it my duty, as it bad come to my knowledge,
to put distinctly to each Member the question which I have put
upon the notice paper of the House. I have heard, and have
reason to believe, that the Election Committee appointed to
try the question of the Reading Election had their business
entirely put an end to by a compromise made on the part of one
or both of the Hon. Members, now the sitting Members for
Reading, and that a bond has been entered into by some parties,
with their knowledge, if not in their name, that one or ether of
them, though declared by the Committee to be the sitting
Member for Reading, should resign his seat by the accept-
ance of the Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds,
thereby defeating entirely the determination of the Com-
mittee, and, as it certainly appears to me, thereby violating
the privileges of this House. Therefore, Sir, with perfect re-
spect for both these Hon. Members, I now proceed to put the
question to Lord Chelsea, whether he is cognisant of, or party
to, any arrangement by which it has been agreed that one or
other of those Hon. Members is to accept the Stewardship of
the Chiltern Hundreds, in order to vacate the seat,
notwithstanding that he has been declared duly elected by the
Select
Committee appointed to try the merits of the petition
presented to this House against his retarn ?
has
Lord CHELSEA said, as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
done me the honour to put my name first on the list of
those included in the notice v hich he has given for this evening.
, I am perfectly prepared to state to him how far I feel it con-
sistent with the duty which I owe to myself to gratify his
searching spirit of investigation, holding as I do a very strong
opinion that Hon. Alemb:Ts may justly consider that matters
of this kind are strictly private, and ought not to be in-
truded upon the House. 1 think myself bound to decline
most peremptorily and most unequivocally to give any answer l
whatever to the question which the Honourable and Learned
Member has put to me.—( Cheers from the Ministerial benches.)
At the same time I trust the Hon. and Learned Member will
allow me to regret that he should have so far departed from
the deep and sound discretion which characterises his proceed.,
ings in this House as to indulge in a practice which, were the
circumstances reversed, if I were the catechiser and he the
catechumen, he would see great reason to withstand and
condemn.
Mr.IROEBUCK— I feel perfectly satisfied with that answer.
I proceed in the same respectful manner to put the same ques-
tion to the Hon. Gentleman, the colleague of the Noble Lord.
Mr. C. RUSSELL denied that the Hon. Member for Bath
had any right to ask him is hat his intentions and purposes were
respecting his retaining his seat in Parliament. He (Mr R.) held
that seat by a right as perfect as that by which the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman held his—by the returns of a very large
majority of a very numerous constituency. That right had
been affirmed by the decision of the only tribunal which by law
was competent to consider it.—(Hear.) If any doubt existed
as to the mode in which the petition against his return
was withdrawn, it was for the Committee which formed that
tribunal, and not for the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath, '

to complain, consider, and adjudicate upon that measure.—
( Hear, hear. ) If Hon. Members of that House were to be
thus catechised respecting their seats, what Honourable
Member would be free from being harassed during
the whole duration of a Parliament ?—( hear, hear.) If the
H u,e should sanction such questions being put to Hon. Mem-
bers, they would make a stride, and a long stride, towards the
resumption of the worst and most improper jurisdiction, which,
after long experience, had been deliberately and wisely re—
nounced, and which, if revived, the seats of Honourable
Members would again become the sport of party contention,
personal envy, and inquisitiveness. In conformity with the prin-
ciple which had been adopted by that House he (Mr. R. )
declined answering the question put him by the Hon. and
Learned Member for Bath—(Ministerial cheers)—and he
protested against that House drawing any inference whatever
trom his refusal to answer the question which had been
now put to him, and which the Honourable and Learned
Member had no right, either personal or Parliamentary,
to put to him ( Mr. R.). The Hon. and Learned Member for
Bath might draw whatever inference he pleased in silence, a.i.d
his inference might be about as pertinent as his question.
Mr. ROEBUCK—I proceed in the examination I have pro-
posed, believing, that if I hear aught that would be detrimental
to any Member of this House, 1 will do that which is most
advantageous to the House itself. I shall now proceed to put a
question to the Hon. and Gallant Member for Penryn. —( Hear.)
1, therefore, as him if be was a party to, or cognizant of,
any agreement by which he, in the month of July next, or
anywhere about that time, is to accept the Chiltern Hundreds,
although he had been declared sleeted by the Committee ap-
pointed to try the validity of his election, it being notorious that
acts of bribery were proved at that election, and I wish to
know if lie is cognisant of any such acts ?—(hear, hear.)
Captain PLUM RIDGE—I do not think I have any fault to
find with the Hon. Member for the question he proposes.
( Laughter and cheers.) I shall answer the question truly,
without fearing that I shall compromise myself; and I say
that 1 was not cognisant of the arrangement until after it was
made.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition benches, and
laughter from the Ministerial side of the House.) I assure you
that tits arr,mgement did not please me then, nor does it now—
( Laughter)—but I always thought that when a person put his
case into the hands of his lawyer, it was to be entirely left with
him to settle it as he thought fit ; and in this case I think the
act was premature. I hope I have now answered the question,
and I could not do so more fairly.—( Loud cheer s.)
Mr. ROEBUCK—I beg leave to return thanks to the
Hon. and Gallant Member for the extreme candour arid fair-
ness with which he has answered the question I put to him.--
(Loud cheers.) I could expect nothing from the Hon. and
Gallant Member but a fair and honourable answer.—(Cheers.)
In the same spirit of inquiry which I have shown, I now beg to
ask a question of the Right Honourable Baronet,
the Memb©r for Nottingham.—( Laughter.) I wish to
ask whether he has been a party to, or cognizant of,
or whether, being cognizant of it, he has taken any advantage
of an agreement of the following description : that a sum of
money has been paid down to avoid the investigation of the
Committee respecting the bribery alleged to have taken place
at Nottingham—that a fresh sum has been paid down as a
pledge, by which it should be permitted to an Hon. Gent!e•
man to walk over the course, as it is called, whether he has
any knowledge of it, or whether any such terms, or any ap-
proximating to them, have been come to?
Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE—I can make the same ansiver as
has already been given, that I do not admit the right of the
Hon. and Learned Member to put the question ; therefore I
shall not answer it. I shall say no more, Sir, because Ido not
consider that more is called for. —( Cheers. )
Mr. ROEBUCK—I agree with the Right Hon. Gentle-
man that nothing more is called for.—(Order, order.) After
I had left this Ilouse last night, I understand that a motion—
( Loud cr.es of " Order.") lam speaking of the Hon. Gen-
tleman the late Member for Nottingham, Sir G. H. De Lar-
pent, I think.—(Loud cries of " Order.") I was but about
to explain to the House why I was going to ask the question.
—(Order, order. ) At half-past twelve or one o'clock, on the
day before, it was signified that that Honourable Gentleman
had accepted the Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds, and
therefore I cannot put the question to him.—( Laughter.)
Now, Sir, I am going to ask a question of an Hon. Friend of
mine, the Member for Lewes. lam about to ask hint if he is
cognizant of, or a party to, any agreement or arrangement, by
with which the question of bribery at the election of Lewes is to be
drawn from the consideration of the Committee, so as to admit
a Member into this House, who was not returned by the re-
turning officer, but who would come into this House by agree •

ment between the Hon. Gentleman arid that party ? This is
the only question I shall put to the Hon. Member.
Mr. ELPHINSTO:NE—In answer to the question, I have
to state that 2. compromise did take place upon that Committee
by my Hon. Colleague on the other side. I must further state
that neither directly nor iedirectly have 1 contemplated accept-
ing the Chiltern Hundreds.—( Cheers. )
Mr. ROEBUCK—I return my best thanks to the Hon.
Gentlemen. I have now to ask the Hon. Member for Har-
wich, or rather the two Hon. Members, whether they are party
to, or cognizant of any agreement, by which either of these
Hon. Members is to retire from the seat which he now holds.
by accepting the Chiltern Hundreds, for the purpo..e of letting
another person into the House, and by those means avoiding
the consideration of bribery before the Committee?
Major BERESFORD—I do in one singular particular fully
agree with the Hon. Member, viz. that his present conduct is
most extraordinary. Neither my Hon. Colleague nor myself
can conceive what right the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman has to ask me this question here in my face,
relative to any private arrangements of my owls; and
therefore, I decidedly decline to answer the question,
which the lion. and Learned Gentleman has asked me. How-

ever, if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman has any prima facia
case with regard to the Harwich election petition—it he has
any grounds to go upon, let him bring it before a competent
tribunal—let him bring it before this House, and then
I will be ready to explain to the House, and thereby
clear my character from the slurs these sort of questions throw
upon it, and I trust I shall prove myself free from all blame.
Before that tribunal 1 will willingly state all I know, and 1
perhaps may then gratify the active curiosity of the lion. and
Learned Gentlemen. I will not give an answer to the Learned
inquisitor himself, but to the House.—( Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
Order of the Day for the House resolving itself into a Coin-
mittee on the Property-tax Bill.
Mr. ROEBUCK considered that he was entitled on the
motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman to put it to the House
whether or not he was entitled to bring forward the question of
privilege of which he had given notice last night. He thought,
after having n a notice of the kind he had done,
he was bound to press on the House the question whether,
on the subject of breach of privilege, he had not a right
to be heard. lie had heard certain statements respecting
various Alembers of that House in connection with election
petitions. Thos... statements having came to his ear, and being
anxious at all times to preserve the character of the 1-louse,
he had thought it his duty to bring the subject under its consi-
deration ; arid, as a mere matter of privilege, he claimed
the right of being heard. Having stated that the state-
ment affected certain Members in the House, he de-
manded from it the consideration of the question, and
from the Chair its decision, whether or not, if he stated in
his place, that he had heard imputations against certain Mem-
bers whom he had questioned, he was not justified in bringing
it before the consideration of the House.

The SPEAKER said, if the Hon. Member had any accusa-
tion to make against any Members of the House by which they
had incurred a breach of the privileges of the House, he must
first move that those Members attend in their places ; and then if
he proved that they had been guilty of such conduct as was a
breach of privilege, it would be competent for him to move
for a Committee to inquire whether certain actions were or
were not a "Toss breach of the privileges of the House. If
he din not adoptr that course, he was not making such a motion
as would entitle him to precedence on the ground of a breach
of privilege.
Mr. ROEBUCK was ready to state the accusations, and
having done so he believed they would be proved to be a gross
breach of the privileges of the House, aed under these circum-
stances he thought he should be justified in moving for a Com-
mittee of Inquiry on the subject.
Mr. H. ELPHINSTONE said, that ifhis Hon. and Learned
Friend had any imputation to throw upon him, he hoped he
would bring the charge immediately, and give him at once the
opportunity of a reply.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that he would do what he could to
put the House in possession of the facts of the case, as
they had reached him. Ile was then prepared to state
certain imputations made against certain Members. All those
Members, or almost all of them, he believed were then in the
House; and as they were there he was prepared to make
in their presence the statement which he wished to lay before
the House. He had said before, that the instances he was about
to state were, he believed, a breach of the privileges of the
House, as ho was sure they were a breach of the
common law of these realms. Under these circumstances he
believed lie would be in order in moving for a Committee of
Privileges to inquire into the facts.
The SPEAKER said that under the circumstances stated
by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he should consider he
would be in order in moving for the proposed inquiry.
The House was, however, in this po•ition—a motion had been
made that the Order of the Day for the Committee on the Pro-
perty-tax Bill' should be read, and the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman could not make his motion unless the previous mo-
tion were withdrawn.

Mr. ROEBUCK said that he had' no desire to stop the
course of the Government ; but if the Right Hon. Baronet
thought it would be advantageous for the business
of the House that a question affecting its privileges
should be immediately brought under its consideration, he
(Mr. It. ) was prepared to proceed.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that he was quite ready to
bow to the decision of the Chair when given against him ;
on the other hand, he thought it most desirable that any
Member who brought forward a motion on the ground of a
breach of privilege ought to have that precedence to which he
was entitled. But, on the other hand, he thought it would
establish a very inconvenient precedent, if an Hon. Gentleman,
bringing forward a motion, should bring it forward contrary to
the rules of the House. For his part he was ready to abide by the
decision of the House. He need not say how anxious he was,
upon public grounds, that they should proceed with the mea-
sures introduced by the Government, but at the same time
although his Bight lion. Friend had moved the Order of
the Day for the Committee on the Property-tax, he (Sir It.
Peel) should not insist upon that circumstance if the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman was clearly entitled to bring forward a
question of privilege.—( Hear, hear.) If the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman were to bring forward the motion on Monday,
he (Sir B. Peel) should gain nothing, but at foe same time
he should say he thought that in the case of a motion of so
unusual a character (he would not say more) it would be tor the
public advantage that there should be seme delay before its discus-
sion. He was not aware what might be the facts which the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman might reveal, but he
could not think it would be desirable that the House
should at once entertain the question. The matter was one
of indifference to the Government as regarded the time
at which it might be brought forward, but he could
not help thinking that it would be more satis-
factory to the House, and more consistent with justice to
individuals, that the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
should give his notice for Monday next, and allow
the House the interval for considering the matter.
But if the lion. and Learned Gentleman insisted on the right,
which the Speaker declared he possessed, of bringing forward
this question, he, for one, should not insist on the accidental
circumstance of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, having moved the Order of the Day as an
impediment.
Mr. ROEBUCK said, he was quite in the hands of the
House as to whether he should go on now, or defer it till Mon-
day.—(Loud cries of " Go on, go on.")
The Hon. Captain FITZROY asked the Hon. and Learned
Member for Bath whether he included him in the list ?

Mr. ROEBUCK replied in the affirmative.
Capt. FITZROY said, in a matter of such importance he
trusted the Right Hon. Baronet would allow them time.
Major BERESFORD stated that his colleague, who was
unwell, had gone out of town ten days before the Hon. and
Learned Member had given notice of hi; intention.—( Go on. )
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in accord-
ance with the general feeling of the House, withdrew his motion
for reading the Order of the Day for going into Committee on
the Property-tax.
BBEACH OF PRIVILEGE.
Mr. ROEBUCK then said, the Right Honourable Baronet
at the head of her Alajesty's Government had termed the
course he had pursued on the present occasion, a very extra-
ordinary one; he quite agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman
that it was an extraordinary course, but he thought before he
sat down he should have convinced the House that the cir- ,
cumstances under which he acted were also extraoseli-

nary, and that extraordinary evils required extraordinary
remedies. lie had deviated from the ordinary course of mak-
ing motions before the House, but it was in curse•
quence of there being grave suspiewn attaching to
the two Members sitting ler the town of Nottingham.
He should be able to show the House that there
was grave reason for suspicion against the two Mem-
bers for Nottingham.—( Cries of " One ! One !") Yes !
One had resigned. He should be able to show
the House that there was grace reason for suspicion against
the two :Members for Harwich, or at least against one
of them ; he should also show that there were grave
suspicions resting on certain transactions connected
with the representation of Penryn arid Falmouth ; that there
was the same grave suspicion resting on the two Members for
Reading, and also on the two Members for Lewes. Now what
reasons were there for entertaining these suspicions?
This was a matter in which of all others it behoved the
House to be watchful. It was no less an accusation than this.
that certain Members of that Howse had obtained their
seats through intimidation and bribery. He charged
the Right Hon. Member for Nottingham with bribery. He
charged the Gentleman who had recently resigned his
seat for Nottingham with bribery. He charged the
Honourable Member for Harwich with bribery. He charged
one of the Members for Penryn and &lin ;uth
bribery. He charged the Hon. Members for Reading
with bribery. He charged the Member for Lewes with bribery.
How, it might be asked, had these facts been with-
drawn from the cognizance of the tribunals by law
established? This it was that had led to the extraordinary
proceeding which he had adopted. The law was framed in
such a manner that those who were co snisant of their own guilt,
were enabled to withdraw the consideration of the subject from
the tribunal by law appointed. But should it therefore be said
that Parliament, which possessed large powers, which insti-
tuted inquiries of a much more stringent nature, should there-
fore suffer these things to be withdrawn from its cognizance?
An Act of Parliament had been paned, appointi ig a tribunal
for the trial of election petitions—any one presenting an election
petition had by that Act the power of withdrawing it, and this
was the manner of proceeding which had taken place. He would
suppose a case. Suppose a general election about to take
place, and that the two seats for Nottingham were about to
be contested; a sort of a Parliamentary Napoleon determines
to conquer that town ; he jumps upon it, as Napoleon would have
said, with both his feet —he rushes down into the town, he bribes
every man he meets, he frightens his opponent out of the town,
and he is returned. The party who has lost, petitions; the Corn-
mittee is to be struck, say on Monday—fear seizes the Member.,
and they enter into a compromise with the party opposed to them.
They pay down money for the purpose of exculpating them-
selves, and of escaping from the scrutiny of a Committee. They
further pledge themselves, to allow the other candidates, to walk
over the course. He (Mr. R.) hearing of those things,
put a question to the Right Hon. Gentleman who must be cog-
nisant of the circumstances. And now he asked the House
what would have beers the conduct of each Member of that
House if he had not been cognizant of the fact? Suppose
such a question as he hail asked to. night had been put to him,
what would have been his answer? Should he have
sheltered himself under the plea—" that the Hon. and Learned
Member for Bath had no right to put such a question ?" No.
He should have been glad of such a question ; he would have
said in the face of that House, and of the country, of which he
was a representative, that the whole statement was a
foul lie and calumny. Had nut one of those Honourable
Members already what he (Mr. Roebuck) anticipated
at five o'clock yesterday—accepted the Stewardship of
the Chiltern Hundreds for the purpose of keeping that very
contract which he (Mr. Roebuck) had then given notice of
bringing under the consideration of the House ? He ( Mr.
Roebuck) was met by a statement upon this subject
to which he must advert. It was said, suppose that,
under the circumstances mentioned, the Honourable
Member found it expensive to protect his scat,
what was he to do? He (Mr. R.) allowed that, but his
charge went further ; his charge went to say that he
heard, and had reason to believe, that some money had beer,
either promised or paid down, fur the purpose of escaping the
scrutiny of an Election Committee.—( Hear, hear.) Now, that
was not simply acting as if he was unable to go
through the contest. It was saying that he was guilty of that
which the petition laid to his charge—that he was prepared to
give something to escape from an inquiry. Now he (Mr. R. )
was prepared to say, and did say, that he had heard those things
circulated through every portion of the town in which he had
been. He was prepared to say, that if they gave him
power to bring the question before them, and to
examine the agents engaged in those transactions,
he would get out all about them. Was the House prepared to
say that that gross bribery—that bribery of a whole town for
electioneering purposes—as a gross breach of its
privileges? If they were prepared to say so, he
had no answer to make ; but, if not, there 'he was
in his place, to say that he believed the accusation, and
that, believing it, he was able to prove it. Now he would
go to Reading. He had heard, and he had reason to believe,
that a bond had been entered into for the purpose which he
was about to state. '1 he Hon. Member—he was obliged to
name hint because he wanted to distinguish them—the Noble
Member for Reading was to accept the Chiltern Hundreds.
(Laughter. ) The Noble. Member fur Reading, under a penalty
by which either he or his friends were bound, was to vacate
his seat by a certain day. He contended that that was.. a
breach of the privileges of 4the House. Of what was the Noble
Member accused? Of bribery, of intimidation, of corruption ;
and before the question could be tried, the Committee he be-
lieved only sitting one day, the whole thing was hushed up. He
(Mr. Roebuck) charged the Noble Member with having agreed
to withdraw because he was accused of having corrupted his
fellow-countrymen, and did not desire to meet their charge.—
( Hear, hear. ) Now to proceed to the town of Nottingham; it
was extremely important to know what were the secusations of
that. petition. I'he accusations which were included in the
allegations of that petition were these, that the Right lion.
Sir John Cane fisbhouse, and Sir G. H. Dc Larpent had
been returned bar the town of Nottingham ; but
that as far as the petitioners could learn, the
whole of the constituency had been corrupted ; that a large
number of them had been cooped, the meaning of which was
that they had been shut up in their houses, and that it was
through the strategetic operations of the Right Hon. Gentleman
that they had been returned. It appeared that there was enough
said to frighten the sitting Members.—( Hear.) But now he
would ask the House, what was to become of all the privileges
of Parliament, of all the honourable feelings which guided the
conduct of men in that House, if after an election petition had
been presented, it were hushed up in an hour, lest the grossest
corruption should be exposed to the public gaze ?. Nothing was
further from him than to attribute any thing dishonourable to
the Hon. and Gallant Member opposite, or to his Hon. and
Learned Friend on the other side of the House.—( Hear, hear. )
But they were now pursuing a course which, if allowed to pro-
ceed further, would break up the constitution of the country ;
and, therefore, he hoped the Honourable Gentlemen
on both sides would excuse him when, having
found both of them in the slough, he brought forward
their names. His lion. and Learned Friend allowed there
was a compromise, but he.did not state what that compromise
was.—( Hear, hear.) A compromise was entered into for the
purpose of preventing the charge of bribery being brought be-
fore the Committee. Here was the case aemitted, and,
therefore, he could not be accused of rashly rushing in to ac-
cuse any persons. He produced the facts as he found them
laid down. Hon. Gentlemen forced money into their hands,
which they employed for the purposes of bribing electors ;
and, in consequence of that bribery, they were returned to
Parliament. Petitions were presented against the returns;
and the parties had in their hands such proofs as enabled
them to say, " If you
,do not give up your seats at once, you
see the consequences. And being prudent men, connected
with one another, they made the arrangements ; and now he
saw the lion. and Gallant Member in his place.—( Cheers and
laughter.) He was not accusing them, but the system.-_
(Cheers. ) I'he Hon. and Gallant Member was there in con-
sequence of that system. It was the system he wanted to ex-
pose. There he is, and here is my Hon. and Learned Friend,
but where, oh ! where, is his colleague ?—( Loud cheers and
laughter.) And Echo answers, Where ?—(Cheers.) He
now came to the Hon. and Gallant Member for Penryn. lie
had
not
a acknowledgedparty, and
ahe was extremely angry. (Captain
arintat
whichcompromise, but one to which he was not
Plumridge was understood to express dissent.) lie begged
pardon ; the Hon. arid Gallant Member said he was displeased.
But what came out before the Penryn Committee ? The
Committee was appointed, am! a witness brought forward, who
swore to direct acts of bribery ; the thing became unpleasant ;
an arrangement was made the night before the petition was
withdrawn ; and upon its withdrawal the Committee declared,
" We beg to say that we did not believe one word of what the
witness swore."—( Laughter.) They withdrew the petition—
the world knew nothing inure. They did so, and the Hon.
Member retired in July.—( Laughter.) The Hon. and Gal-
lant Member was afraid of his friends—he was afraid of his
lawyers—he was afraid of that. They who knew the case to
the bottom, who brought the legal acumen, who had seen men
tried at the bar—they. said " the case is up ; we won't try
this ; you must retire il July."—( Loud laughter.) Was he
not to retire in July ? 'There was no answer to that—there was
no answer to his ( Sir. Roebuck's) application as to whether he
was to retire in July. Why, if that witness did not tell the
truth, why was he to retire? For what reason? He was in
good health—( Loud laughter)—quite equal to his Parliamen-
tary duties. Thee why did lie retire ?
Capt. PLUMRIDGIe --It is a bad basgain.—( Great laugh-
ter, which coctinued some time.)
Mr. ROEBUCK asked the House, and the people of Eng-
land, if this was proper language? This was the best argu-
ment that could be used. Did they come.
there to represent
their fellow-countrymen to watch over their interests, to take
care of all that was dear to them and to the House? and yet
the Hon. and Gallant Member said this was a bad bargain.
He (Mr. Roebuck) entreated Hon. Gentlemen not to permit
such language. He wanted to brand with shame those who
used their legislative capacity in this way, and to teach them
that they were unworthy °fa seat in that House. Such conduct
ought not to be permitted in that assembly. He now turned
to Harwich.—( Laughter.) The Members were charged with
bribery, treating, and corruption. There were three petitions.
One was presented by Mr. Bagshawe, supporting one of the
candidates,
Sir Denis le Merchant. Before anything hap-
pened • a sudden light broke in upon the sitting Members for
Harwich,.dthat Oe and the three petitions were withdrawn. The accts.
of those Hon. Gentlemen was to retire to
let ration
in
n said
same
Sir Denis le Merchant. The accusation was
bribery, treating, and corruption.. The petitioners had re-
tired, and the Members retired. The lion. and Gallant t
Gen-
tleman had told h;
-au that he might draw what conclusion he
pleased—he drew this
conclusion, that either he or his colleague
would retire.— (hear, hear.) Ho asserted now that one of
them was to retire,
Why was he to retire, or why had joy
gone forth to the friends of Sir Denis le Merchant? Why
did they say they had
got the seat of Harwich? Why, be-
cause a compromise had taken place between those parties.—
(Hear, hear.)
, A curious thing had occurred in Harwich—the
sitting Members
alone had presented their objection lists; the
other parties had been more careful.—( Hear, hear.) Now he
found in that list of objections' 83 for receiving bribes and 18
for offering. Now he wanted to know how many voters were ob-
jected to on the other side. He did not hesitate to say a great
many more, and if the House would give him the Committee
he asked, he would show clearly that there were a great many
more. The present case was a curious one with respect to
numbers; there were charged, by the objection of the peti-
tioners; 80 as being bribed 40 for having made bets on the
chance of the election, and 96 as corrupted. Those were
the objections of the petitioners, making altogether '216 ;
while, on the part of the sitting Member there were charged
with bribery, with attempts at bribery, with having bribed,
and with betting, no lam a number than 5013. Now, how
many voted ?—for Mr. Summers Harford, 311 ; for Mr. H.
Elphinstone, 109; Mr. Fitzroy, 407; and Lord Cantilupe,
308. There were, therefore, 722 objections to an election,
when the highest number for the candidates did not exceed
411. He hart been told that at the last two elections for Not-
tingham 4,000 persons had received bribes. Give him a Com-
mittee, and he would prove it to their satisfaction. Let them now
go to Penryn ; the Committee was appointed and sat one day;
witnesses were heard, and what was the statement of all the
members of the Committee whom he knew— of all the lawyers
with whom he came in contact? Why, that if they had gone
one step further, if it had only lasted five minutes longer, it
would have been totally impossible to have withdrawn the
petition
? And why ? Because the thing had been
so plain, that Honourable Gentlemen upon their oaths
would have been afraid to have committed themselves to the
statement. He contended that these things demanded inquiry
—he asked no more. lie wanted an inquiry such as would free
Hon. Members from the accusations made against them, or
that, justifying those accusations, would lay the ground for
further legislative measures; and what was the legislative in-
terference which he asked? Why, such as should enable the
House to consider election petitions as something more than a

fight between A and B. At present, the return to a seat in
that House was considered a mere matter of Mr. A. or ,
Mr. B. If Mr. A. gains, his party gains; if Mr. B. wins,
why, his party wins. But the public burdens of this great
empire was totally unconsidered in the question, and
they bought and sold the constituencies of this coun-
try as if they were a flack of sheep.--( Hear, hear. )
Look at the case of Nottingham. The Hon. Baronet had
bought the whole constituency— (Cheers)—and Mr. Walter
has bought it through him. The Hon. Baronet had had a bad
bargain, anti had sold it for less than he had bought it
before, but still he had sold it. It was this he wanted to
inquire into. He did not confine his accusation to one side of
the House or to the other—he had made it no party question ;
but he stood up for the purity of the House, and, God willing,
he would make it pure.—( Oh, oh," and cheers.) He could
not make it pure it they allowed such things to go by without
inquiry. He now addressed himself to both sides of the House
—to the protection of the public wealth—the protection of the
Commonwealth and he asked to be allowed to lay these
things before them. They knew them to be well founded ;
there was not one of them but would say, however ill-advised
he had been, he had told the truth. What ! would the lion.
Member for Lewes sty that he sat there for nothing ? It was
impossible. Give hen a Committee, and he would prove
what he said.
Mr. FITZROY—I will vote for you.
Mr. ROEBUCK was glad to hear it; it was just what he
expected. But when all these things had gone abroad, anti the
public mind was impressed with these details of corruption and
baseness, would they shrink from inquiry? Was there any
man in that House so bold—any man so careless of his own
reputation, as to deny him (Mr. Roebuck) the means of in-
quiry ? lie hoped his motion would be seconded by the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Member for Nottingham.—( A laugh. )
He (Mr. Roebuck) would not appeal to others to do so—he
asked him (Sir .1. Ilobliouse) to second his motion.—( Cheers
and laughter.) He told the Right Hon. Baronet that his
(Sir J. Hobhouse's) character was concerned. That the ac-
cusations brought against him would not he got rid of by his
mere refusal to answer a question. He (Mr. Roebuck), there-
fore, called upon the House to grant him a Committee to in
vestigate those accusations which he had made in his place in
Parliament, in his own name, and he asked the House of Com-
mons to grant him a Committee to inquire into the truth of
those accusations.—( Loud cheers. )
Mr. FITZROY rose, amidst loud cries of " Hobhowe "
" Hobhouse." He had not the slightest objection to second
the motion.—(Checre.) Ile was thankful to the House for
having suffered this question to have precedence—for not having
deferred the discussion until Monday ; and he appealed to the
House if the Hun. and Learned Gentleman had not failed to
attach any suspicion to him (Mr. Fitzroy). He had asked the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, across the floor, if he included
him ( Mr, Fitzroy) in his list, and the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had said that he did. Now he (Mr. Fitzroy) had
paid the greatest attention to the speech of the Hon. and
Learned Gentle'man, and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
had failed to attach any accusation to him.—(Cheers. ) He
asked, how had the Hon. and Learned Gentleman attached to
him that he had committed any breach of privilege. He had
obtained, by petition, the seat which he believed to be justly
and :fairly his own, and it hail been conceded to him by the
Member against whom he had petitioned. Had he been guilty
of any breach of privilege, by taking possession of that scat
which had been conceded to him ? Was he to act as a public
prosecutor ? Because he had accused the Honourable
Gentleman, who had been returned, of bribery, was he
(Mr. Fitzroy) to subject. himself to the expense of sn
investigation, which might last, perhaps, three weeks?
If he were to be the public prosecutor, he hoped the House
would attach a large salary to the office. On account of the
emiesion to fill up certain heeds of objection, he felt aware that
it would have been useless to attempt to secure the return of
his late Noble Colleague; and as the Hon. Gentleman against
whom he (Mr. Fitzroy) had petitioned had retired, what was
there to prevent his taking possession of the seat? Was there
any breach of the privileges of the House in so doing? The
Hon. arid Learned Gentleman seemed to think that it would be
a desirable system to force every one presenting a petition
against the return of a Member, containing accusations of bri-
bery and corruption, to proceed at a great expense to investigate
every circumstance connected with those accusations, without
having the power of withdrawing them. Whether such a course
was desirable or not, it was not for him (Mr. Fitzroy) to say.
He should be inclined to compel the petitioner so to do. But
as such a law had not as yet been introduced, he maintained
that he was free from any imputation of having committed a
breach of the privileges of that House. He had taken a seat con-
ceded to him with no unworthy bargain on his part. He took the
see; because the lion. Gentlemen who had occupied it had
failed to defend it. He was one of those who wished the House, as
well as his own public and private character, to stand pure be-
fore the world ; and he believed that there was no political
guilt on the part of any man but must also attach to his pri-
vate character. He believed that all political delinquency mutt
attach to the private character. From any course of that kind
however, he had abstained, and he rose publicly there in the
presence of the representatives of England, and in the presence
of One far more high, to state that, during the contests which
he had fought fur seats in that House of Parliament he had
never, either directly or indirectly, obtained for himself a vote
by any corupt or impure means—( Hear, hear)—and for that
reason he would second the proposition of the Honourable
and Learned Member. He had always most sedulously
set his face against any such practices, and he
had to tell his constituents over and over again
that he would not accept a seat obtained by unfair practices.
If the Committee now moved for were granted, he should prove
the truth of his statement. If any persons, in public or private,
either in that House or elsewhere, should state that he obtained
his seat by mal-practices, he should answer them in the lan-
guage of the lion and Learned Member (to whom he meant no
disrespect whatever), " That such a statement was a foul lie
and calumny." He might be allowed, as the list of the number
of the objections made by both parties had been read by the
Hon. Gentleman, to state one fact in elucidation of that point. Ile
must state first that he deprecated the course pursued by the
Hon. and Learned Member so far, because he thought it would
revive, in the respective boroughs, the heat of party strife.
With respect to the bets alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman, he
must state that they were merely technical bets—bets of one
shilling, of a bottle of wine, or of a pound—made for the pur •
pose of raising a legal question.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon.
and Learned Gentleman must know that there were hundreds of
the objections made on both sides, which were not tit to be
prosecuted. With respect to the number accused of being
bribed, he could only state that they were men of
the highest possible standing in the town, and who
would scorn to be concerned in the transactions included
in time list. He was informed that their names had been in-
serted from the unworthy motive of insulting them. Ap lo-
gising to the Hi-use for trespassing on their attention, he would
conclude by reiterating the declaration which he had made,
that never had he been, and never would he be, knowingly
guilty of bribery at elections.— (Cheers.)
Mr. ELPHINSTONE, who was inaudible in the gallery,
from the rush of Member s to the bar, said that in Lewes it was
intended that a scrutiny should take place, and six
hundred persons were included in the list of objections.
But considering the state of the Election Committees, and their
incompetence to decide questions of law, it was not thought
advisable to come before Election Committees for these grounds.
He had said that neither directly nor indirectly was he cogni-
zant of the facts alledged, but lie had no doubt that gross
bribery had taken plae.e.—( Hear, hear. )
Captain PI. UMIIIDGE, who spoke amid great confusion
and in a low tone of voice said—Sir, I beg to state most solemnly
and most emphatically before this House, before the world, and
before God, that I never gave one penny to any ono before,
after, or at the election. and that I ain as pure arid incorruptible
as the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath himself.—( Hear.)
It was my pledge to all my friends before the election, that I
would not spend one farthing, and I have adhered to that
pledge most rigidly, and up to this moment I have not made a
promise to pay, paid, nor will I pay, one 6011,4 fur the expense
of that election; and I—no matter what perjury may say to the
contrary—l can pledge myself as an honest man, as an officer,
as a gentleman, and as a Member of this House, that I have
not paid, promised to pay, nor sv,ll I pay one sous, for my seat ;
and, moreover, that I had no paid agent.—(Cheers. )
Mr. WYNN said the question before the House was a most
important one, deeply concerning the honour of its Members.
It was a question, therefore, which he thought required due con.
sideration from them. It was a novel proceeding to bring for-
ward accusations of this description, and it required deliberation
as to how they were to proceed. He had already moved the
suspension of the debate on the general grounds, that it was
better in all cases of that sort to have time for consideration.
He, therefore, again moved the adjournment of the debate till
Monday next.
Mr. WARD said he saw no reason why the Hon. and
Learned Member for Bath should not acquiesce in the pro-
position of the Right Hon. Gentleman. It was desirable to
the country and to the House that they should arrive at a fair
couclusion. He felt that there could be no objection on the
part of his Hon. and Learned Friend to acquiesce in the propo-
sition, and he (Mr. Ward) should, therefore, abstain from
making a single obseivation on the subject theta and he would
merely second the motion.
Mr. ROEBUCK said he had no objection to the ad-
journment.

On the question being put,
Mr. C. WOOD wished to say that he believed the witness
not only perjured himself before the Committee, but he
believed had perjured himself before the House of Lords no
less than ten years ago. He (Mr. C. Wood) utterly dis-
believed all the witness had said.

Mr. WYNN said he thought it was absolutely necessary
that mo.e power should be given to the Committees of that
House A week or a fortnight was not sufficient punishment
for such a crime, nor was it likely to deter others from com-
mitting it. Ile hoped the House would recollect what the
general character of the evidence was, and would inflict greater
punishment than it had hitherto done.
Mr. ROEBUCK wished to know from the Hon. Member
for Halifax, why, if the Committee was convinced that the
witnes,ei had committed Ferjury they had not reported it to
the House.

AGLIONBY said that the Hon. Member for Bath had
anticipated him in the question he had put. It had given him
great delight to hear same of the answers of Members on that
side of the House, and the manly declaration of the Gallant
Member opposite; but he had heard with regret other Hon.
Members, who had not pursued the same course. The Hon.
Member not having reported the conduct of the witnesses, it
was his duty to bring forward some question before the House
on the subject, in order to see whether some legal measures
should not be adopted.
Mr. C. WOOD did not say that the Committee were
unanimously of opinion that the witnesses were guilty t,f per-
jury, but the Committee could not believe a word they said.
Mr. IN AKLEY was anxious to impress upon the attention
of the. House, that if they were to have an inquiry it should
be ample, and that they should net have a few victims only.
He asked the Speaker to read the motion before the. Hou,e.
The SPEAKER said the question before the House was a
motion for a " Select Committee to inquire whether certain
practices connected with the trial of petitions presented to this
House against the return of certain of its Membe:s be not a
gross breach of its privileges."
Mr. WAKLEY said he understood that a great number of
petitions had been presented against the return of Members to
this House, but that some of those petitions had never been
prosecuted to an inquiry. Practices equally evil and corrupt
as those stated by the Hon. Gentleman had taken place in re-
ference to the withdrawal of these petitions. `,Would not this be
regarded as a partial inquiry, if they merely inquired into the
four or five cases that had been gone into ? He hoped
the Hon. Gentleman would amend his motion, so as to take in
all the other cares.

Mr. HUME differed from his Hon. Friend. If they wished
for any good result from the inquiry, they must put some
limits to it.

The debate was then adjourned till Monday nest.
PROPERTY TAX.

The Order of the Day for going into a Committee of the
whole House on the Property-tax was then read, and the
Speaker left the Chair.
Clauses 83 to 93 were agreed to.

On clause 94 being put, words were proposed to be inserted.
exempting literary institutions, and churches and chapels, from
the operations of the Act.
In reply to a question from Mr. S. O'BRIEN,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, there
were difficulties in limiting the exemption to literary institu-
tions, which required careful consideration; he would give the
subject his serious attention.
Mr. HUME said, that in many parts of the country there
w•ereßible class-meetings and schools held in chapels—he wished
to know whether a circumstance of that kind would deprive
them of the benefit of the exemption.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if the
chapels were used for the purpose of Divine worship, that con-

stituted the exemption. In his opinion, a school or a Bible
class, might be fairly considered to be connected with divine
worship.
Mr. HUME said the churches and chapels of Scotland were.
as the Heuse must be aware, used for mcetirgs of various
kinds, but he presumed that they were not, on that account, to
be deprived of the exemption. lie thought that the words had
better be left out, and the Commissioners left to decide what
was, and what was not, a place of divine worship.
Mr. P. SCROPE asked what remedy would a man have
who was supposed to be worth 150/. a yaar in trade, but in
reality was not worth so much ? Would he have to pay the
tax, or would he be exempt? And if he were to be exempt
from the tax, what would be the mode of relieving such a per-
son-2 Would he have to pay the tax in the first instance, and
would an allowance be made to him afterwards?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
was no other mode of giving exemption than that pointed out
by the lion. Gentleman. The party should pay the tax in the
first instance, and then get a certificate for the amount from
the Commissioners of Stamps and Taxes. if such a course
were not adopted the Hon. Gentleman must see that facility
would be given for much fraud.
After a few words from Mr. HUME,
The clause was then agreed to.
Clause 95 was then proposed, and the blanks harieg been
filled up, the clause was agreed to.
Clause 96 was then proposed, with the Schedule D and the
rules thsreunto annexed. On the first rule for the computa-
tion of the duty on trade being proposed,
Mr. HUME objected to the duty being computed on an
average of three years. His Hon. Friend the Member for
Greenock proposed to calculate the duty on the profits of the
past year. He (Mr. Hume) thought it ought to be calculated
on the current one. If he believed our distresses to be tem-
porary, he should not care so much about the average of three •
years bring taken, but he thought the distress would go on
increasing, and that therefore it would be most unfair to calcu-
late the duty nn an average of three years.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that on
that point a great variety of opinion existed. 1 hose who con-
sidered the three last years as bad years, and who were of
opinion that things would mend, approved of the average of
three years. It was generally found in matters of this kind that
to take the estimate for the longer period would give the fairer
result.
Mr. HUME only appealed to the Gcrvernment to do what
was just. He secand only ask whether the profits of the year
were better than they were last, year ? He did not think they
were, and therefore it was hard to tax the present year, which
was ba with the amount of last year.
Mr. W. ELLIS said that as far as he could understand,
the universal sentiment was that the country was in a state or
gloomy depression, which, however, might be removed as soon
as the Government measures were passed. With regard to
list year, the grt atest losses were sustained ; and he believes'
there were few commercial houses that paid their expenses.
The years 1339 and Ir4o were tolerably good, but the last
year was very bad. And if there were any signs of returning
prosperity, he would not object to the Government measures;
but there were no appearances of a revival of commerce.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said there had been a general com-
plaint respecting the depression of trade for the last three years
and more. It was impossible to say that one of tho•e three
years had been prosperous. He thought that any tradesman
would give the preference to the average of three years being
taken instead of one year. Hun. Gentlemen must recollect
that in that Bill there was an option given to compound for the
tax. Su/posing the next year should be a bad one, or good in
the preceding one, in that case the party would be charged
upon the average of the last three years, and so, if the two
years were bad. Now he (Sir R. Peel) should be very sorry
to express any very sanguine expectath.n of the recovery of
trade. He was bound to say that the spring had disappointed
his expectations, for he was in hopes there would have been a
restoration of trade; but lion. Gentlemen must admit that the
spring had not advanced far. The House ought to adopt mea-
sures likely to restore the trade o! the country, and
he thought the measures proposed would have that ef-
fect.—Hear, hear.) He did not think it was an in-
justice to calculate the average of the last three years, nor
did he think that any one could complain in parties being al-
lowed to compound for the tax. He thought a great number
would be found to object to a shorter period for the average
than three years.
Mr. WAK!,EY said he thought that it was a matter of ex-
treme difficulty to tell what was the best course to pursue where
so many interests were concerned. Some men were of one
opinion and some of others, and he really did not know that
he had himself come to any conclusion as to whether it were
better to take the last year, or the average of three years. The
Right Hon. Burenet had, with a good deal of candour, admitted
that he had been disappointed with regard to a revival of trade.
Ile believed that the badness of trade was owing to the no-
certainty of measures in that House—( Hear)—and he did
think that the House ought to go to work on Monday.
and go through with this question and the tariff immediately,
—( Hear, hear.) It was quite impossible that trade could re-
vive, till thee Bills were decided one way or the other ; and
he believed that if the Right Hon. Baronet would appeal to
the House, the Members would concur with him, that every
other matter of business should be set aside, till these important
questions were settled.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord S. WORTLEY said, he rejoiced io hear that opinion
expressed by the lion. Member for Finsbury. Ho was sure
that there was nothing so anxiously looked to, as the adoption
or rejection of these measures.—( Hear, hear. )
Sir R. PEEL said, if the House would apply itself, for about
a fortnight to these matters, they would get through them. He
had a delicacy in pressing these questions on the House; but
he was sure, if the House would, for a fortnight or three
weeks, take these questions from day to day, there would be a
great saving of public time in the end.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. MUNTZ said, that though he differed from the Right
Hon. Baronet as to the result of these measures, ho thought
the sooner they ware got through the better.—(Hear, hear.)
At present, it was quite impossible for mercantile men to
know what to hue, or what to sell. He would, therefore, with
a great deal of pleasure give his vote for the Hon. Member
for Finsbury:
After a few words from Mr. M. ATTWOOD,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained
that he hail given the power of compounding for a period of
three years, which he gave as a reassn against taking the
average for less than three years.
Mr. HUAI E proposed that the blank be filled up with " one
year," as the duration of the term on which the Income-tax is
to be calculated.
Mr. BAILEY thought the three years' calculation would
operate unjustly.
Mr. BARING said that by clause 125, parties had the
poseur of recovering, it' they had paid more I ban the average of
their income for three sears.
Sir R. PEEL thought it would not bs fair or just to take a
less average than three years.
Mr. ATT WOOD advocated the substitution of one year in-
stead of three.
Alter a few observations from Mr. FIELMIN and Mr.
MUNTZ, the Committee divided, when there appeared—.
For the clause
For the amendment
Majority f it the clause — 49
• Rule 2 was agreed to.
After a short conversation, rule :3 was then passed.
Mr. B. WOOD suggested that the deduction of bad debts
should be left to the discretion of the Commissioners.
Mr. GILL thought some explanation was necessary on the
subject, as to whether a bad debt entered in a merchatit's book
as such would be allowed by the Commissioners.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that under the old la- s the Com-
missioners were empowered to levy the tax on the whole
amount of a bad debt, lost that the party upon whom the tax
was levied upon application obtained a remission, and he only
paid on the amount he recovered on the debt.
After a few words from Mr. TURNER. and Mr. B. Wotan,
the rule was agreed to.
Rule 4of this clause was also ordered to stand part of the
Bill.

Rules 1,2, and 3 of the second case in this clause were
agreed to.
Itules 1,2, 3. 4, and 5, applying to both the cases of this
clause, were agreed to.
Rules 1,2, and 3 of the third case were agreed te.
Rule 1 of the fourth case was agreed to.
Rule 1 of the filth case was agreed to.
The 6th and last case in this clause was agreed to.
Clause 97 was agreed to.
On clause 93 being proposed,
Mr. FRENCH moved that after the word " pei iods," the
words " except only such annuities, and yearly interest of
money, as shall be payable in Great Britain to, or on behalf of,
any person bona fide resident in Ireland," should be inserted.
After a short conversatian, the clause, as it originally stood,
was agreed to.
Clause 99 was agreed to.
Clauses from 100 to 117 inclusive, were agreed to without
discussion.
On the reading of clause 118, to the effect that Commissioners
might put questions in writing touching any assessment or
schedules, and receiving answers,
Mr. GILL opposed the clause, as it was most unj,st and in-
quisitorial, empowering the Commissioners to bring before them
the clerks, agents, and servants of any person with whose
return they were dissatisfied. It was true that those persons
were not compelled to answer or to take an oath. But it
must be evident to any man acquainted with business what
the working of such a clause, would be.
The
to say that the clause was not compulsory, and the Commissioners
would not resort to the powers which it entrusted to them
except in extreme cases.
Air. HUME said the clause was such as could
scarcely be tolerated in Spain in the worst time, of the Inqui
sition. But he would recommmend the Hon. Gentleman not
to attempt to amend it, as it was not worth Interning.
After a few words from Mr. HOWARD, the clause was
agreed to.

—Clauses from 119 to 127 were agreed to. Clause 128 was
paned with amendments. Clause 129 was agreed to without
discussion, as were all the clauses from 130 to 157. On clause
158, which gives the exemption to all persons of incenses utmer
!WI. a-year being put,
Mr. E. BULLER thought, as the clause stood, there were
no words which would enable these parties to claim the ex-
emption.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
the Hon. Gentleman's objection would be met by filling up the
blank with the words " one hundred and fifty." The clause,
so amended was agreed to.

Clauses from 15.1 to 16L were agreed to, with a few verbal
amendments.

Clause 166. giving power to the Commisnoners to grant re-
lief from double assessments, were agreed to, after a short
conversation.

Clauses 167, 168, and 169 were agreed to, without any
amendment.
Clauses 170, 171, and 172 were agreed to, with a few ver-
bal amendments.
Clauses 173, 174, 175, and 176 were agreed to, without
any amendment,
fhe remaining clauses were then agreed to up to 188, which
provided that the Act should remain in force up to 1845. On
this clause being proposed,
Mr. HUME moved that " 1843" be substituted inr " 1845 "
Strangers ,A ere of tiered to wi.hdraw, and the House
divided, when the numbers were—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority
—122
On our return to the gallery, we found
Mr. I'. HOWARD sta:ing that he had voted against the
amendment because he thought the measure too expensive to be
made to continue hut for one year. But he thought that two
years was quite a sufficiently long period for the continuance
of the measure. He therefore moved that in the words ".one
thousand eight hundred and forty-five," the word " four" he
substituted for " five." The Hon. Member subsequently
withdrew his amendment, and the clause was agreed to.
Clause 189, the last in the Bill, which directs that the Act
may be amended or repealed in this session was then put and
as to.

52
....... 174

-Mr. F. MAULE said, he wished to ask the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite a question in reference to the second rule
in Schedule C. He ought to apologize for asking the ques-
tion, as the Right Hon. Gentleman had made a statement on
the subject. However, he (Mr. F. Maule) was not in the
House at the time. He wished to know what course the Right
Hon. Gentleman meant to adopt with respect to the motion of
which he (Mr. Maule) had given notice—of including other
places of worship, besides those of the Established Church, in
the exemption from the operation of this Bill?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he' pro-
posed to insert after the word ," chapel" the words " or other

building licensed according to law as a chapel o r house of
divine worship, and wed for no other prrposes.
Mr. FOX MAULF. said that the Right Hon. Gentleman
had done justice t.l all dcunminations.—(Cheers.) But he
wished to know whether the words in the clause would ex-
empt- Dissenters' chapels in Scotland from the tax.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQURR said that
the words were taken from the Assessed Taxes Act, and if he
found, on inquiry, that those chapels were not exempted, thr
words should be altered.--( Hear, hear.)
Mr. FOX MAULE said, that what the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman stated was perfectly satisfactory, and he begged to re-
turn him thanks.

Several supplementary clauses were then agreed to.
EXEMPTION OF SOLICI FORS FROM THE
INCOME-TAX. .

Mr. H. R. YORKE moved " That it be an instruction to
the Committee on the Property•tax Bill, that they have power
to introduce a clause to exempt attorneys and solicitors from
the annual payment of ce,•tificate duties during the time they
shall he subject to a tax upon income." •
The clause was then brought up, and, on its being proposed
to be read a first time,

Colonel SIBTHORP said he would support the clause,
because the solicitors were called on to pay a duty for their
certiticates, and he hoped the Right lion. Gentleman would
take their ease into his consideration.
The clau,e was then read a first time.
On the qttestion being put, that the clause be read a second
time, . _ .

Tile CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that it
would not be proper to exempt attorneys and solicitors from
the operation of the tax, on account of the duty on certificates
which were necessary fur the conducting of their professions.
If they were to allow all persons who paid duties an exemption
from the Property-tax, Ile feared it would fall very short of the
amount that was expeteed from it.
Mr. Alderman HUMPHERY said, that if the present
clause passed, he should propose that merchants be exempted
on account of the duty they laid en receipts and bi is of ex-
change.
Mr. WA KLEY said, if the Chancellor of the Exchequer
adopted this proposition with regard to attorneys, he most
adopt a similar proposition with regard to other persons simi-
larly situated. 'ihe lieenced victuallers, for instance, like
the attorneys, wereobliged to take out a licence to carry on
their hu,iness, and he thought th.- claims of licensed victual-
lers to exemption were much stranger than those of the
attorneys.
Mr. HUM E advised his Hon. Friend to withdraw his motion.
He thought the tax upon those certificates aught to be taken
off, but that the present was not the proper Hate for bringing
it forward. If this exemption were allowed other exemptions
would be claimed, and it would be impossible to know where
to stop. If his Friend brought forward his motion on a proper
occasion, he (Mr. Hume) would suppiirt him.
Mr. H. R. YORKE would say, dna if there
were other parties equally entitled to exemption.
they Ought to be exempted. He had no connexion
whatever with attorneys, and had brought forward
his motion, only because he believed it was founded in justice
and fairness; and therefore, although he was at. all times
anxious not to give the House any trouble, he felt bound to press
his motion to a division.

Stt angers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Commit-
tee divided, when there appeared
For the clause
Against it
Majority against the clause ... --165
Colonel SII3THOIII3 moved the insertion of a " Clause to
secure payment of the tax from foreigners temporarily residing
in this country, and deriving income or profits' from any ern-
ployment or business therein." Ile thought that foreign dancers
and singers, who derived from this country very considerable
sums, ought not to be exempt from the tax. Some of theirs
received many thousands in the course of a few months, and
yet they were not liable to any tax.—The clause was brought up.
Mr. HENLEY moved the insertion of a clause, ". To enable
the Commissioners, or other Government officers, to relieve
occupiers of land, in certain caes, from the whole, or any part
of the duty charged upon them under Schedule B, as to there
may seem just.'—The clause was ordered to be brought up.
On the Order of the Day for the second reading of this clause
being read,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that he
thought sufficient indulgences to meet the exigencies of the
case had been shown to that parieular class to which the clause
referred. Ile thought it much better that the clause should not
be inserted.

After a few words from Mr, DARBY,
Mr. HENLEY said, he thought he was bound to have
brought this under the attention of tke House, but it was nal
his intention to press it to a division. He begged to witladraW
his motion.
Mr. F. MAULE said he thought that the Hon. GentLerean
had done quite right in withdrawing his motion.
Mr. B. WOOD wished to know whether the Right non-
Baronet proposed to introduce his clause, of which he (Mr'
Wood) had given notice, into the Bill.
Sir R. PEEL said that he should commit this Bill 03
Monday, and that he shOuld proceed with the tariff on Tuts'
day. He was sorry to inform the Hon. Gentleman that, after
much consideration, he had come to the conclusion that it
would be very dangerous to insert his clause, inasmuch as it
might lead to great evasions of the tax.
Mr. T. DUN COMBE said he had to move a clause fin;
the purpose of placing the borough electors on the same grin"'
as the county electors.
Sir R. PEEL expressed a wish that the Hon. Member
should give notice of his clause, and move it on the bringing
up of the Report. He had no wish to place the borough elec'
tors in a worse condition than those of the counties. But a'
this act was a temporary one, he would avoid as much al
possible any enactment that should interfere wi h the assessed
taxes.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he would propose the clattse aR
bringing up the Report.
After a short conversation between Colonel Sibthorp, the.
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and Sir Robert Peel, the Ho°'
resumed, and the Report was ordered to 15e brought up
Monday.
The remaining clauses and the preamble were then agreed
to, the Report was ordered to be brought up, and ordered t°,
be received on Monday.

POOR-LAWS.
Sir J. GRAHAM said, he should state on Monday they ad
on which he should bring on the Poor-law ContinitanceA the
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of,
House, at One o'clock, adjourned till Monday.
MONEY MARKET and v N faISTS.
SUN.—Businesz in the English funds has been enn6e6d
t o
price (f
.
sale by the Bank broker, which depressed the
Consols to 921 94 for money, and 923 921 for the account_
Bank Stock, 167 16'14; India Stock,. 2471 2481 ; Exchequer
Bills, 37 39 premium.
Foreign securities were rather flat, and the price of Belgian
was rather lower, being 1911 1024; Dutch Two and a 11,
per Cants. were 53 53'.}; the Five per Cents, 101 101 V
Danish, 801 811 ; and Brazilian, 67 63.
Railway Shares were a shade lower, although some exten-
sive business was done in them. London and Birminghael,
90 92; Great Western, 52 ; the Half Shares, 14/ 15 l'r";;
•
Birmingham anti Gloucester, 52 54 ; South Western, 631.
Gosport, 631 64 ; North Midland, 64 66 ; the New Shoe'.
31/ 321 ; South Eastern anti Dover, 30/ 315 ; East 9t
'
Counties, 9.1 10; Blackwall, 11 H 125; the New Shares,
10/ ; And Brighton, 364 365.
The foreign Exchanges were not al favourable as on this
day week. Hambro' 13 13; Amsterdam, 124} 12 44 ; „B°";
terthin, 12 41 ; Antwerp, 12 41 ; Frankfort 1514 1514 ; rTark-,
25.80,25 83 ; Vienna 952 9 ; Trieste 9 53/ 9 54i ; '7•
bon, 534 ; and Cadiz 361 365.
The bonds are quoted: Portuguese Five per Cents., 37 . 37.
the Three per Cents, 22 221 ; Colombian, ; Mexican,
33 ; Spanish Five per Cents., 235 234 ; and the Three r
er
Cents., 23 234.
Some; further information has been brought to light ar:
the subjt:et of the surreptitious issue of upwards of sesterd
millions sterling of the Three per Cent. Spanish Stocks' at
bad as the statement may appear, it is greatly to be feared itt
worse remains yet to be unfolded. To those who may bait Toe
to be unacquainted wi:h the trickery of Spanish finance,
such
es
diselnsures may appear exaggerated or daub, ful, but to sue,t.
may have had experience, painful and expensive perhaps,o";u,;',
will be perfectly credible. The Madrid Gazette of the pea
tilt., reported a speech made in the Cortes on the 25th, by .air
Pedro Gil, in which in allusion to the contract with M. „ 5
manca laid before them, seventy millions of reals in 09°Pnti
had been given by the Government to th..t gentleman a, 17e,
of the guarantee for his advances. These coupons bsan%
doubtless, been converted into stock by the several ageols,ar,,s.
the stock thus created found its way into this and other m".-.,„
The settling, it is to be lamented, will be a day long to be '-
membered by many who have purchased these docunaents.
COURSE 01" EXCHANGE—(YESTERDAY•I,
Amsterdam CF. 12 755 Gibraltar ................• 4"0 it,
Ditto, at sight
95 95
Rotterdam ...... ...2 U.' 12 8 Genoa
Antwerp
47
Hamburgh M.B. 14 0 Venice
40
Altona
Paris, 3 days' sight ... 25 75 Palermo, per 0z..........
Ditto, 3 months 25 95 Lisbon
Marseilles
llourdeaux 26 0 Rio Janeiro ............... 27
Frankfort on Maine... 1524 Bahia
Petersburgh, 3Us ... 364 Buenos Ayres
Berlin..
• ht 4bi
Vienna, effec. fl. 3M. 955 'Philadelphia 46 s•
Trieste, ditto 9 56 PlucEs OF BULLION, PER 9
Madrid
.5
Cadiz
Bilbao ... 36 New Doubloons 0 0 si,t
kareelona.
Seville 36 (Silver in Bars 04 II

----------- ---
CHEAP PRO VISIONS.
TO THE EDITOR OF THE suii,r, by
üblie many (it' your readers
111-
copying from the Carmarthen Journal of hiwaY pro-
the paragraph headed " The Weather, and Cheap
visions." It is a positive fa. t that a family can livle
In
Pembrokeshire as cheap as in Jersey or France. 't el
true wine, spirits, and tobacco ore cheaper in the Clialln
nd
Islands and on the Continent, but then at 'Milford
Laugharne fish, poultry, eggs, and meat, are cheaper
coal, house-rent, and scrrant's wages are less than blur'
what is charged in Brighton, outhanipton, Bath,
Chel!enham. T. G.
Port of Fishgnard, Pembrokeshire, May. 2. lof
[We have nut received Bic Carmarthen Journal
Friday.]

B IR TII S.
On the 6th of March, on board the Conqueror, on her voyage
to Madras, Mrs. Clement Dale, of a daughter. t Itir•
On the 3d inst., at Tredegar-place, Bow, the lady of J.
Nyren, Eq., of a daughter.
On the 3d inst., at the Vicarage, Cleobury, Mortimer, ShreP
''
shire, the lady of E. M. Moultrie, of the Middle Tour
Esq., barrister, of a daughter.
Oil the ,Ith \ inst., Mrs. Frederick A. Packer, Castle-street'
Reading, 13crks, of a son.
On the stli inst., at Penton-street, Pentonville, Mrs• rd'
ward Iluckley, of a daughter.

111 ARR! ED.
On the 4111 inst., at St. Mary's, Lambeth, John Lynn, .11,";;
Esq , of Fethard, Wexford, to Emily Elizabeth, only daugl''
of Thom.is Ilariison, Esq., of South Lambeth.
stio
On the 3d inst., at Evershot, Dorseishire, Charles Aug° t
Smith, of Crooms, Greenwich, solicitor, to Anna, elrfr°
daughter of Thomas Martyr, Esq., Greenwich.