The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-06 00:00:00

(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
a r
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Twelve o'clock, 1111 the
diately afterwards the House went into Committee on
is
RAILWAY CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION BILL"
On clause 20 being put, getr
Lord G. SOMERSET said he understood the gen. else's
ber for Sussex wished to amend or substitute anothertoes
for the one which had just been put. The Hon. Gen 00
however, had not had an opportunity of consultlo the
parties who were in a position to give him informatlieet Olt
subject, and it was, therefore, thought most eltPeu „
the clause should be postponed till a future day'. to 0'
Mr. DARBY said he entertained great objectio?_oo
clause as it now stood. No doubt the same clausenf.„4ol'
introduced in all former Bills ; but it must be 2,7-
bored that the objection to it was corusiderabeo7o6o.
dr
creased when railwarprojects were few and far tforob
If the clause were allowed to remain in its preste.eot thol
a railway company would have power to do trll reprir
thought proper with an estate, and deprive the Pflaisf,
tor for an unlimited time with his right of ownershiP,
t:se 00
hear.) Still he must admit, if they struck this 01010
altogether, and substituted none other for it, great der, ell°
would arise. They would have one Committee t gyro'
view of the case, and another restoring the clause itl,tbird'
sent objectionable form, and thus in many instances tto;0001,
ship he complained of would be continued. genredecid:
then, some special clause ought to be 1
but ore more modified than that which tat lir
sent Bill contained. The next difficulty t before
been suggested to him was that the Bill had bersibeeo
the public for some time, and all the railway Actil,eyer,tb_e
prepared in accordance with its provisoes. g 11" the r
clause were to be so modified as to meet his views, „gee"!
moters of these railway schemes would be put to the,itieliO
and trouble of serving an immense number of au,`c,oar,
notices. Well, but why could not the engineer state! %1
mittee how much land he would require for the 11.1.11150.0
his line ? If he were to do this, the difficulty 'Owe, ea;
rid of; and then, with respect to future railways,th they
now frame and pass a special clause.—(Hear, hear.)in° be bt
exceedingly obliged to his Noble Friend for the co feer
taken, in postponing this clause, and he trusted et!,',..eseg
occasion they would be able, in some way or other, t
these evils, which, he must confess, from what W 3,13110044
had not been exaggerated, but on the contrary,
me
the facts had been rather understated. , „4,
Mr. HENLEY conceived that the House should itlifol:f
question in this way. There were now 240 Bills for_ telsl
before it, and would it run the risk of now making.o
faulty legislation, which might involve very
of
tions as regarded property, merely for the sake
cold
those 240 Bills ? hera
Colonel SIBTHOKP hoped that Hon. Mal-- ,e
get sufficient time for the consideration of this clA.tort,Pi.
they should be called upon to pass it. For his 07510
would have no hesitation in saying that the clatise.ro
stood would never give satisfaction to the landowiriliegit
country, for this reason—that it, in fact, meant'', te'ry Wit
nor less than the absolute total annihilation ef
in the country for the benefit of a few ape u ore:
should like to know from the Noble Lord (LordcGe•ivlibcWweirS;:t-
whether he had considered this clause with A '
ed
further modification.
Mr. T. EGERTON—The great difficulty e3tlfi.eelt tilt;
all Committees on Bills of this s'Ort was, that salt s ClSir
had not been afforded for a full consideration of sue ce, boo,
as that now under discussion. In the present insrroiagoe
ever, that difficulty could be removed, by 13'5".10 be 0
clause until after the recess; and that interval co
ero,to
ployed by the engineer in endeavouring to t 1.0 to
minutely as possible, the quantity of land he won tvipb
take up at either side. Another point to which 1210.r0t,,
call attention was, the absolute necessity t here aPP7iii Off.;
for the introduction of some general clause upon t4le
in order to remove the difficulty that Comm The
counter in a special clause in each separate Bill' 011170
Lord (Lord G. Somerset) had certainly devoted folio
tion to this point, and therefore the House shout' of
indebted to him.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir G. STRICKLAND hoped that this would fo:rteng .°10116;
the clauses in a consolidation Bill, instead of ho e0'5,0 ofa-4,
private Bills ; for in its present shape it was .10 00
greatest alarm to every landowner in the couln_.,%iere ssa .e
l
he had thought of asking what would their anTbehoPiei
they could but look up from their graves s°°;,.100:01
manner in which the estates they had left thi"c0001.1,0
been infringed upon and cut up by these railWige belp
—(" Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp.) 'Pt it bes,
this clause his closest consideration ; but he
be 130.,.1
say, that as it now stood he thought it would be by
satisfactory. The suggestion of the Noble Lord,eolfr
reduce the power of deviation from 1,000 to 300
3 ,bet
Lord G. SOMERSET—From 1,000 to 500. se 00814
Sir G. STRICKLAND—WeII, even to 500,1 be t11.41° •
would go far to remove causes of complaint
the House ought to consider what was the am, the eugdilo
space to which they should reduce the power 01 for fAho
to deviate, consistent with the facilities necesserlos it Of,
a railway.—(Hear, hear.) For, after all, what 0111'
bargain between the engineer and the owner of or gtor
the purchase and sale of a certain quantity oftligte
—(Hear, hear.) Again, he would say, lirai I_, iv
as much as possible, even to one hundred yarixds'„--9,317",„
Mr. DARBY did not quite concur with the -"'ef deof
views ; for if the House were to reduce the limit et A
to one hundred yards, it would, in his opinientil:e dope'
railways altogether. What he wished to ha sec.ool
that the engineer should have sufficient time ttthl Sec
closely as he could what quantity of land b
Iv'
641
require.
Mr. ENTWISLE had no doubt but that thisorefill
.A
would have the effect of making engineers the
eedw
exact i
U.
ts
SOMERSET had no doubt, but tbst 1144 eg
next, or whatever day the Committee shouhe_ahea ep
this clause would be so framed as to meet the r-
parties.—(Hear.) htlll Acit
fle/S /1/
Mr. HAWES said, that any course which here
must be attended with some inconvenience too ...;01/140(
such a clause as that which was contained in be il°lllolr
was sorry, therefore, that the Noble Lord and the •
Gentleman opposite had consented to the IA./ `;ileel
this clause, and he thought they were talon.; tareesper",
rable responsibility respecting it. He had 01%0 0 opei
when last in Committee, of stating.his
the difficulty which was likely to arise rst) 0%,
tion of a clause of this kind.—(lleac, hoe 0. WA ace
done this in answering the objection of the that;tiote':
Newcastle (Mr. Harris), and he apprehonaie 004.0 ept ref
culty would be greater from not adopting a c'atit
ratter, than if they did adopt it. The polve,rbt ce for
sessed was altogether insufficient for the flg osiloBooo
engineers. Now he believed that it WashiftPthei:de itife
gineers to ascertain beforehand precisely „ len os
quire, and there ought, therefore, to be solltitet 110i,rse
to them. They could not always ascertain ret• en7o, 't-be
would require—and, indeed, the opportunity
a to the t°lo
requisite observation was sometimes derde rotionerof
Hon. Member for Lincoln had made an obse asgst#o
effect that if he had seen a surveyor setting ati, teeso 0.3 t.
land to ascertain what land, and which larletete, to OP-
for a railway which would pass through bitsiacehiel 4
resort to a very unpleasant argument W Loadios'bibr dog
Col. SIBTHORP—The argumentum alit that totiiil)jes
Mr. HAWES—Precisely ; and heenthgoiluiegeir_i
very likely mode of preventing an tlfele.° °1319.3-
that accurate information which Hen. 11
Ge to Whiet;lci
seemed to require. There were other cases', ,ear, the
not refer, but they had occurred only last4traer ,bet
sufficiently notorious. They should also rT eeialify ePl;eo'
Committees were called upon to report_ esPpeciellioai
House ; that the power delegated would 11e. that°
h taXe.ss
to every private Bill in Committee, in w-lboiad etee-toef.
tion ought to be what course a railway definite Pules
the power given by this clause was a 'L.llst P°„o 4a.V
he thought it was better to know,"re leas terse
given, if they gave any powers at all. There
ii! Rare
but that gentlemen who represented the la they iflt7,
anxious to avoid the inconvenience
wbfithe 13ridPIPeile
jected by making a railway. Members o the at IOAIO
it was true, were greatly inconvenienrect_ioere. V 010
railways in many cases. Many other classe,.'who tION,ef
convenience, but it was the landed intere_sttist 01000f,vole
instance felt this inconvenience, and he heir 000
thought that, as a class, and it was much to_
0, caqiige file
had readily conceded their property inr.T:saysll. ostler
public benefit. They did, it was true, de.rb tliol itecoo,
the making of a railway, in commons 71Lantage.t 00000,
but they were the first to suffer the di aTt when i!t. to
struction and the last to enjoy the benen.,__t the, Ad
plated; and he was, therefore, anxious tir_twe Topple,
should be secured as far as it was possible t° sec Agelloted
clause which they were discussing was oinit"°o the nel tys
granting land for deviation would be left told belled 0
and the whole of the power of the House wt iff",,01700
to such Committee. Hon. Gentle:nen en° ucticiareep,
the Committee would exercise its functions.,o)opito
that was the case, it was, in his (Mr. Haweio. ...(013047,0
to know what power they were about tos the P OV,
Mr. TATTON EGERTON said thd to be (T 5104
Member (Mr. Hawes) had professers, het beef, 1
to secure the interests of the land proPrino'n. adeso3,teelefeed
Egerton) conceived that the course the 11. Ft° 4;1
to be adopted was only likely to affect the irate le
large landed proprietors. Now, they were_qbey °utle if
their own rights. If they felt a grievaloc! it yees., for.
before the Committee and state it. Bubb, eare°,oo Ar;el
landed proprietor whose interest ought to deViaiiliolf.t
of
small freeholder were injured, as by very o'oo
was required by this clause he wt 0..,. boat! prct,'
almost sure to be, he had no poweLun'don,
pense of bringing his witnesses to .ilfs 0011 1,10
his injury before the Committee.
..7.% by Olt OA 001
therefore thought that the latitude gips tiougO..igois oce,
landedh tdniPodrt:ntPwenrtoletitticiluil
_esti ir 4:00j
excessive,.and ought to be abridged... 11_0o p,relo hot
engineers were able to ascertain wi.th inhey e,
they were accustomed to do, what v'esSl
nod V- „ate vi
and not take as they seemed in9l •
aieloteo
three miles for their spoil earth. One
etyaneer t° his O.:
it was utterly impossible for
of
wh07.40, tie
arrived at any particular pobrrtiidognesctuaes tio`libehoebtAltbo"ittboit:ttifce,
for tunnels:pi. stone for his
thfoa.rt,bguitvvbi7sabsn.o-pe;reinh_Ltteid,horst_ar.
by.% ;
imti
powers,ghwastof tolt
be
enndo somethingthjautstwi fiheeant justification
deviation
alai bu t 0
b nit t.t. it AA,
toeurgehstt
wouldto begiven tci
effected.the small
Mr. R. PALMER said het oug
edthat
wasnatu
sufficientlyr e ought tto
rbeec
iisnes.e rtTedii,e)b,
a thousand yards or only 250 y
and w he
would
d thoughtreguir et. h
ethe i
de nngnitn-
seaperer
so.sk,u_gfrhystinytti.cdeeilittioessdloene,,miLltot,
for the railway by which his property Ise
fact,ln m a )a-ncna siens
tt;,veaos
neves! lretde
da
untttetniinntipgoptetarrir:capiei
inestiodsllol.oin i 0
was the case with regard to a. c conipanY seieeenie !olf
f,
which
property,the G
nearat lY We
et eardni
nRg.
vf iich sP°"e eed pri
excellent land, and left the earth,rae eye- j.,0 out" 40 power of temporary occupati.aoiln.vitAh)-Tviiicilingt tl;eigebboltitthil;;lrtti°
six acres, besides leaving a mises
told that he he Aeg
he took legal advice, and
"oval, yet' it, brilid
an action to compel its remto
remove in teP°'
it would be impossible Al use , te 0,0 „
not a
etthi
ni
nn k.
Itihee
stare thesewdo fbseelt
sty
o:opheora,ol t
so:een.,
iat
o,ePso
occupation was sometimes equa
taednvsiisveed
ptohwe
(Committeenr, thoeabre.)cautio:i..st
Colonel SIBTHORP said than7,ightliileard-thrite
ep
that surveys were made during the '•-•
) Ile r for °elate tOB
engineers came to oath.—(Lang meuibe Pau ere beio pea
good old English speech of the hold P_oaps", he „411
great pleasure, and he thought theyl__°..'l„ey aa'Atotib,
gave such unheard of power t•
for .otet?.., aff '-
begged to tell the Hon. Member I ve.
given land fur roads, and would do so I'o' • •