The Sun.
London, England, 1820-08-25 00:00:00

UNIVERSITY INTELL!GENtE.

CAMBRIDGE, AUG. 24.—The following Gen-
tlemen of the University were ordained in Here-
ford Cathedral on the 6th instant :—Waites
Corbet, B.A. Trinity College; • John 'Stewart,
S. C. L. of Jesus 'College; and George Coke,
B. A,. of St. John's College, Deacons.—Edward
Bulmer, B.A. of St. John's College, Priest.

We are authorized to . state, that Sir Francis
Columbine Daniel, M.D. has accepted the ap-
pointment of 'Treasurer to the 'Medical. Board
established by Messrs. CoorEa and Co. at Char-
lotte House, Surrey.—Messrs. Coosa and Co.
have frequently inserted Letters from various
individuals who, have been radically .cured,
not only of Ruptures, but of other-- -claw-
gerous diseases, too often 'deemed incurable by
Professional men, whose practice' is confined.
The late Dicke .of Bedford tutfertunately lost his
life in a few hours, by a strangulated Hernia ;
Mr. Mills, of the Kent-road, also lost his life in
a few hours ; Mr. Shearman, of Mile Ehd, was also
afflicted, for many years, and many, many others,
whose names will never appear without their re-
quest. Mr. Johnson, of the Borough, who bad been
17 months under the care of several eminent sur-
geons, with a most dangerous disease, and whose
life was given over, as appeared by his affidavit
before Mr. Alderman Wood, then Lord Mayor,
and whoie case has been seen by more than 100 'Sur-
geons, was in a few weeks restored to perfect health.
Such are the proceedings at the
.Medical Board,
Charlotte House, Charlotte-street, Blackfriar's-
road ; and Woodstock House, near Bond-street,
under the immediate direction of Messrs. Cooptu
and Co., who are 'consulted daily from eiglas iu
the morning until eight in the evening.-,.Me
chanics, have advice gratis every evening fttfiiii
six to eight, and on Sunday niorningi -111101
twelve o'clock.

ROEBEItY AT TILE DUKE 01,13tiC4-PI/gli'3.-704
Monday night some thieves broke into,rtbe. b..d•
chamber of 'his Grace the Duke of BUCCLAyCiII,
at his house in Priq'Vardens, and stole a cud&
box containing 200/. •
Numberless thefts, were yesterday committed
by 'pickpockets during the QUEEN'S processiatiiii
and from the House of Lords.. These exhibitions
of her MAJESTY afford a fine harvest daily to Ite
light-fingered tribe.

PARLIAMENT,

HOUSE OF LORDS, Ave. 24.

THE QUEEN.

Their Lordships assembled this morning at a
little before ten o'clock, The Lord Bishop of-
Llarniatl, as usual, -read Divine Service. The
•I'yeYs were then called 'over.; and at ten minutes
aftt:T ten the COUnsel and Agents Were called in.
TIM ATTORNEY-;GENERAL, SOLI6ITOII-GEIIE.
and the other Counsel in support of the Bill,
ehtered the House•by the folding doors at the
Bar. "The Queen's -Connsel did not make their
appearance until a few minutes afterwards.—
They ,then-entered by. the side door.
The Lo an' CIIINCELLOR.—Mr. Attorney-Ge-
siY.ral,'you will proCeed., •
The ATrouNEV-GENtaAL.—We go on with a
fresh witness this morning, My. Lord, who 'is
sent for. • .

The witness Vince n:-.0 Guai:gilo," now entered,
and took his station at the Bar. . After he had
b4...,n sworn in the usual• Way, • ' •
Mr. Iv\rutiAms said, that before the witness
Should .be examined, he wished to know their
Lordships' -decision on a particular point which
he was about to' submit. lie did not wish to re-
new disCussion on any subject already decided.
upon br their Lordships,.
,but he Wasantious to
knew from their Lordships, if the point which he
had to subMit had been decided by their Lord.-
ships 'in any. other ease; in the case before the
House it had not been mentioned, much less
argued upon. He would not attempt to call up
day question wherein he found the larger body
Of authorities against hint ; but he apprehended
that his opinions were fortified by 'all known pre-
be. dents which were acted upon in determining
Stich- a point. He "was anxious to know if he
..n ht be allowed to put a question to -the witness
atS' to the importance 'of the oath which he had
taken in binding "his conscience: He knew that
lie had no right-to inquire" of 'a witness believ-
in,i; in• the existence of a' God and a future. state
roSp'ecting his belief. He was perfectly ready to
could 'be no question—that had been
Betided several times. But although that was
perfectly true, it was equally certain 'that every
person adduced in a Court of Justice as a wit-,
Jit6S,.ought to be Sivorn according to, that form or
sacrarnerital 'ceremony which Wetild be the Mast'
binding on his conscience. It was not on slight
grounds that he Maintained that opinion. Their
Lordships' would find by the case of Omeston
acid Parker, in' Cooker, and by cases which had
occurred since, in which that case was referred
toOliat such was the' `general :decision of the
authoritieS. The 'question
"person
in the first
Case Was, 'Whether or not-a: person being not of
the CatbOlic or'any known reliffion, not believing
lithe faith, but being perfecdy a heathen, could
be admitted as a witness, or _could ' be held res,,
ponsible for his oath, -if taken according to, the*
ordinary form. A long discussion took place,
on that occasion it.was determined by all the
Budges, and their decisionwas,reCgVeditS antho-
ritfin all subsequent cases, that the 'person to be
sworn should be swurn_by the ceremony most
binding on his conscience, according, to his own
acknow led gement.—[llere the, Learned, counsel,
recited the several opinions
,of the Judges.]
Now,:suppose a c;hinese„ to appear as
,a witness,
which had since been the case ; or, suppose a
IVishemetan to
.appear as a witness, which had
since ,been_ the case ; if. they ,had taken the
oath usually administered to them, and no
further pledge had been required of them as to
the bond of conscience, there would in no res-
pect be any binding obligation at all. The oath
would have been only, good in. form--,in effect it
would have been, useless, A Gentoo might be
sworn in a British Court of Justice.;, it had been
done. But the. Court referring to the decision of ,
the 'first case, required him to be,, sworn by the,
ceremony: which he ,considered the
,most binding,
on his, conscience. - ...• • - -
The LORD cIIANDELLOR said, that there could
be no., doubt as to the point of law. If a witness
believed. in, no 'God, and had.no belief in a ,future
stale, he could lc no witness. .
A'tr. WILLIAMS; was ready_ to ,admit that, and
he would accede ;;that no,such question
,could be
put—hut.he.maintainecLthat, supposing the wit-
ness ,t,p; bp. a Roman catholic, they had a right
to. inqlire of. hina,:jf . form of swearing
and ot Jaw in ,-,JAts. country there were not
p.artigniap, fortps,of ceremonies which ,he deem-
od essential; to the sanctity and binding of an,
oath,. lf,there were such ceremonies, a4d,,they
were., tabe left Out, in swearing Ihn,..the witness
wo.uldbe.in the same condition:as the Gentop or
Mahpuketan, to, whose, cases
.he had referred, sup-
posing thew, to have.heetisworn by the forms of
the Christian Yaith withoOthe bond which their
own Iteligin. imposed for the same purpose.-7
lie wished 'to. ask :the witness: if there were ..any
forniszwaUting in the eath which he had just taken.
• whiclk:,,would. be used in.his own. country on' a
like.AcGasiUn, ayd which be deemed necessary to
binding conscience.. He,did not questicrn the
veracitx.nithe.iwitness, but he-wished to know if
he ita.f,l6., the language of- theL Judges to: whose,
be ;,had referred been ",most solemnly
swOr4ttnil•by that ceremony which he ;admitted.
to benost•binding on his consience,"N ,
IV.lNakiro P otam mentioned the. case . of Cooper,
in l 7,644.i.a1ti1. dwelt. upon a remarkable expression
of tiordAk.fat.sfield in the proceedings upon. that
case, Ail* referring to the other case. of Omeston
v. Parker;, His Lordship said, that as the pur-
pose:wE to bind , the. Witness's conscience,. he
should be sworn by that form which had ihe most
peWerfu 1. effect upon his conscience. This lie sup
pot.te4j y. rAfejsep cc to other
,cases, and, to .sliew
the iiitplitalicepra:cting on thiS principle, he. put
to th 9 consyAr,giOn Lordships the sith-
tion ..EngiishSeiman would stand,.
who, going to China, should be sworn according
telhe,forms of that country.' What effect would
the .forin S- there lOh se rVed have on his mind, it he
were sworn as a Chinese' bad •be-eit -at the 014
Bailey, in 1806, in a case of murder? The incl.'.

vidual who was then sworn had a saucer brought
in, which was broken before him, and certain
words having beenutterecl„he was considered to
be duly sworn, because an oath so taken would
have been binding on:hiin in his own country. In
the Rase, he had supposed, an English • seaman
might admirthe oath tendered to him in China
under these forms ; but could it be expected to
have the same effect on his mind as that modeof
swearing to which he had been accustomed, in his
own country, and which he regarded as alone
fitted to such a solemnity—as alone competent to
impose upon him what was called the obligation
of au oath ? To a person so situated, it might
with propriety be said, you shall not be sworn
in the way which you say you hold to lie bind-
ing, but in that which you regard -as " the most
binding."
The LORD CHANCELLOR desired the Learned
Counsel to state, for the information of the
House, what was the question that he wished to
be put to the witness. •
Mr. WILLiAms wished to know, first, in what
way it was usual for persons to be sworn in his
own country---whether any ceremonial was con-
sidered to be necessary to an oath, which had
not been observed here ? -
The LORD CHANCELLOR interrupted the
Counsel, to request that he would confine himself
to one question.
Mr. WILLIAMS said, his question came to.this
—whether or not any ceremonies were observed
in the country to --which he belonged which had
not, been attendedl•to here, that he .considered
as binding on his. conscience ?
The Loan CHANCELLOR gave it as his opinion
that the witness might be asked whether the oath
now taken was binding on his - conscience ; but
the question which-hadbeen 'proposed he thought
could not be put.
Mr. I.IROUGHAM said they did not &by that
the witness might consider the oath which he,
had now taken to be binding on his conscience.
Lord ERSKINE was of opinion that the witness
should be bound by the oath, which had the'
most powerful effect upon his mind ; and in-'
stanced- a case in which his- Lordship had been
concerned, where a- witness, a foreigner, consi-
dered himself bound by nothing but a ceremony,
which was calculated to excite anything rather
than a serious' feeling:l—The Noble Lord spoke
in• so low a tone, that it was impossible to catch

the particular details of this case.
Mr. BROUGHAM said their objection was not
that the oath was not binding on the witness,`but
they contended that if there was a mode of sNyear-
ing which he held to be more binding, that
ought to be had recourse to on the present ben.
sion.
Lord ERSKINE suntested that Ole witness
might he asked whether the oath that he had
taken was the most binding on his conscience.
(Cries of " No, no," from several of their Lord-

ships.)
Earl 4'3 REY conceived the witness might be
asked if there were any form of swearing known
to the witness that would be more binding on his
conscience.

vv
. ,
Lord REDESD ALE said, if the question sug-
gested were proper to he put,- every foreign
witness that had been examined, since he knew
any thing of a Court-of justice, had' been .iMpro-
perly sworn.
The Lon!) CHANCELLOR, thought it would be
proper add perhaps most agreeable to their Lord-
ships, that the Learned Judges, who were then iii
the House, should retire to consider the question,'
and give their Opinion to the House,
Thequestio.ns were thee which the Queen's.
Counsel had Wished to put to the witness.
Lord EltsKiNE again spoke in favour of the
question being put at once.
The Lo nn CHANCELLOR. said, he recollected a
trial at-the Assizes in a northern county, where
a witness, who was a very eccentric man, refused.
to take the usual oath. On being asked the rea-
son why he objected, he replied, beeause he had
taken an oath to swear no oath ; but that he
swore by his conscience, and . held up his hand.
After` some little, hesitation 'he was permitted to

swear in this manner. The question for the con

. . _
sileration of the'Judges in the present case was,
whether a witness having taken ,tbe oath usually
adrninistered in that court-of JustiCe in Which he
was to be examined without objection onThis part,
could be'asked if he , considered that oath to be
binding and ftirther,i whether he knew'of any
mode of swearing that would be more binding on
IM conscience ?
The Earl of LTvEnpnor. considered the ques-
tion which it had been proposed ,to put to the
witnesS, might hare, been properly put to him if
he had objected to the oath which he had now
taken, and said On hi's mind it would not be bind-
ing. It, was, however, unusual to put such a
question -to a.witness who had made no objection
to the oath.

After a few further remarks from Lord Efts-
.
KINE and the LORD CIIANCELLOR, the Judges
retired to consider of the question proposed to
them.

!Lord DARNLEY, While the Judges' Were' out,
reminded their Lordshipsth4t they had decided
'that no "Witness,-who„ had been present during any
part of these preceedings,. should be competent to
be examined in their progress.. 'The order. that
had been made in the case.of one of the parties
ought to be enforced with, equal severity under
similar .circumstances againsit the other. On a
former day Sir 'Who: was one of
the witnesses for the defence,' 'had been. Compel-
led to retire froni below the Bar. The rule.ought
to apply eghallY to "the Witnesses for the prose-
cution, and none of them ought to be allowed to
be present during the proceedings: Ile also
thought it would be desirable that the witnesses,
should not be kept all together, .and those who
had alreadi''given " their evidence ought to be
precinded from eo-rmnunicating with those, who
had, not iilreadY;been examined:
The earl of Liv.Enpoobsaid the witnesses had
been placed where they now were, because it
was- necessary to provide .for their personal safety.
With respect-to 'their being together, he did not
know how it was possible to preient that. It was

natural for persons from the same country to as-
sociate, , All that could be done was to lay strong
injunctions on them not to converse with one
another ou the subject of-the evidence that they
had given or were to give.
sti\
The Earl f WINCHELSEA thought the sugges-
tion which h -been thr .out lesterdmorn-
ing, on te sub ct„..tof ,pv.. ring
.plate hg„,
housesiertments, and ships, which her Royal
Highness-was described to have been with Ber-
garei,-ought not to be lost sight of. lie was of
opinion that plans would be found extremely use-
ful, and would be found to shorten the proceed-
ings very much. A sketch of the deck of the
polacca for instance would give their Lordships
a better idea of the situation of the tent than
could be obtained from a long examination of the
witness.

Lord DARNLEY again spoke of the importance
of keeping the witnesses apart.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL shewed that this was
impracticable, and appealed to the experience of
any person at all accustomed to the Assizes, if
the inconvenience complained of, was not of con-
stant occurrence in all ordinary cases in this
country. Persons coming from the same town to
the same place on a particular occasion, might
be expected to converse together, and were likely
to establish themselves at the same inn. It was
to be supposed that strangers coming to this coun-
try would act in a similar manner, and he saw no
way- of preventing it. He knew of nothing that
could be done but to lay strong injunctions on
the parties not to converse on the subject of their
evidence. _

The Earl of HARROWDY spoke to a similar ef-
fect, and sheaved the in-conveniences actually ex-
perienced to be unavoidable.
Lord DARNLEY was 'of opinion, that all that
could be done ought to be done to keep the wit-
nesses apart. It would, for instance, be highly
improper that Theodore Majocci,,who had given
his evidence; should have a free connection with
Mademoiselle Dumont, who had yet to be exa-
mined.—(A Laugh !)
The proceedings were here suspended a con-
siderable time,•during the absence of the Judges,
who had retired to deliberate upon the points
urged by Counsel at the bar.
The LORD CHANCELLOR at length rose and
proposed a Resolution, of which he had given
notice on the former day, to the following
effect :

"' Resolved, That if any prosecution should
hereafter be had in any Court of Justice, touch-
ing the evidence, or any part thereof, given before
this House, in the proceedings upon the Bill of
Pains and Penalties against the Queen, this House
will, notwithstanding any privilege to the con-
irary, give to the Court below, if it shall be de-
sired therein, all the evidence which may be re-
quired in the case, and which may be in their
Lordships' possession."
On the motion of the Noble and Learned
Lord, this Resolution was agreed to, " notwith-
standings any privilege to the contrary."
The Judges then re-entered, and the Chief
Justice ABBOTT delivered their Lordships' opi-
nion upon the point submitted to them by the
House. _ _

The CHIEF JUSTICE said, that the Judges now
present had Considered the point proposed for
their conside'ratioil by their Lordships, and had
sent for books of authority to consult before they
pronounced their decision, which circumstance
had led to the delay that had unavoidably oC-
Vtirred.—(The Judges were out upwards of half
an hour.)—The Judges were then first of opinion,
that the fit and proper ' time
.to ask about the
witness's belief of the influence of an oath as ad-
ministered to him, was before his evidence was
entered upon. But in as much as the adminis-
tering the oath ill the - usual form, might take
place'before the witness's belief was inquired in-
to, still, the witness may afterwards' be asked
'whether he considered the form of the adminis-
tration of that oath binding. If the answer of
the witness be in the affirmative, then the Judges
were of opinion that' the witness could not be ask-
ed respecting any other mode of administering an
oath, which may be deemed by some more bind-
ing. If the witness says, he thinks the manner
in which the oath has been,
,or is about to be ad-
ministered to him binding, then in effect, he so-
lemnly swears to the truth of what he is about to
say, and of course imprecates the Divine ven-
geance upon himself if he swerves from the truth.
—(Hear.)
Vincenzo Guerguilo, examined by the SOLICITOR-

GENERAL.

Q. Was the witness a master of a vessel de
nominated a polacca, and called the Industry ?

A. Yes.

Was he also the owner ?—Yes; but she is no
longer called the Industry, but the Abramo, as
she is now made a brigantine.
Was that vessel used for the purpose of con-
veying her Royal Highness from Augusta to Tu-
nis and into Greece'?—The polacca was hired at
Messina, where she was armed, and
,at Augusta
her. Royal Highness embarked for Tunis and
Greece.

Before her Royal Highness embarked at Au-
gusta had an arrangement of the cabins been made
by the witness ?—Yes ; it was made at Messina.
Whether the Princess and Bergami came on
board the vessel at Augusta before they embark-
ed, for the purpose of seeing the disposition of
the cabins ?

The last question was afterwards separated in
the following manner :
Did the Princess, attended by Bergami, come
on board at Augusta ?—Yes.
Did she. view the arrangement of the cabins
made by the witness ?—She did ; she ordered a
door in the diming-room to be' closed.
Before that' door was Closed how many doors
were there from the body of the vessel into the
dining room?—Two ; one on the right,' another
on the left.

'Which of the two doors was directed to be
closed ?---The door to the' left.

Does the mitness mean on the left as you look
to the prow of the vessel'?-Yes.
in 'what way was that door closed; was it

only locked up, or was it so fastened as not
to be opened during the voyag e ?—lt
die
nailed up, so as not to be opened during
voyage.
Wa3 there any cabin contiguous, to the dining-,
room on-41at side of the vessel, wtesre the 000 v
nailed' vp ?—There was.
ernbared„cq.board\he vssfieJs
Apo Ttfpied that cabin nearest the door 56
closed up ?—Mademoiselle_ Duvont and Made-
moiselle Brunet.
Who occupied the cabin on the opposite, sick
of the dining wow, where the door was left open ?'

—J3ergami:
Will you ask the witness whether the ladder
from the deck came directly down to the. ctining-
roam ; or if there was a door shutting on the bot-
tom of the stairs led directly to the dining.-
room, but at the top was a hatchway which at
night might be shut up to stop the communication.
When that was closed was there any other
communication than the hatchway ?—No.

Beyond the dining-room towards 'the stern,
how many cabins were there ?—Two ; on the
right hand was the bed of the Princess, and
on the left hand that of the Dame d'ffonneur.
What sort of bed did the Princess occupy, a
single or a double bet! ?—lt was about six and a-
half feet in breadth ; he says " palms," seven
of which are about equal to six feet English.
Did Bergami occupy the cabin assigned to him
during the voyage, or did he afterwards change
the place of his sleeping ?—A few nights he slept
in his own cabin, and then he passed to the dining-.
room on to another sofa.
Where was that sofa situated ?-onthe right
hand.
Was it so situated that a person occupying the
bed of the Princess could be seen by a person in
Bergami's bed, or was it not ?—lf the door of the
Princess's room was open tilt-14y could.
Does he know how much an English foot is
Yes.
How many English feet asunder were' the beds
of Bergami and the Princess ?—Tets or twelve:
feet.

Did any person sleep in the dining roomy or
within or beyond the dining 'room, towards the
stern, except Bergatni, the ,Princess, and the
Countess of Oldi ?—No ; Bergatni slept in the
dining room, the Princess in the room on the stern
at the right hand, and'the dame d'honneur in the
room on the left hand.
Did this 'occupation continue during a great
part of the voyage ?
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to this question being'
so put, as it might lead the witness.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he was ex'
tremely anxious not to put any thing that might
he considered as leading where it was material ;
but their Lordships would'easily perceive when
it was unimportant or when it was of consequence"
The question was then varied as follows :
How long did that occupation of the- cabin"
continue ?—From the middle of March to June ;
but afterwards the Princess changed to sleep no
the deck under a tent. After we were from Jaffa,
whet.e we took on board seven horses and 07
asses, the Princess always slept on deck undo.
, tent. _ _

What bed or beds were placed on deck under
the tent ?—A sofa bed and a travelling bed of the
Princess's ryas put up.
The witness has told us that the Princess al
Bergami slept below, but that after they left
Jaffa, the Princess slept in a tent on deck : DPW •
where did Bergamf sleep after they left Jaffa
Under the, tent together with the Princess, ID.
different beds.
Mr. WILLIAMS objected that the interpretation
was not sufficiently literal.—(Order.)
'The SOLICITOR-GENERAL desired that thei
might have no interruption by conversation at the
bar.
Mr. BROUGHAM observed, that if their Loll'
ships did not wish to have the best interpretation?,
they would take the course they Were then I'u r'
suing. But if they did, on the contrary, the!
must perceive that from the very order of their
Lordships' House on this occasion, it was al)s°-..
lutely necessary that the interpreters should has.°
a private conversation between themselves; before.
the result could be made known to the IIoase•.
lie hOped and trusted, their Lordships vreut.
allow business to be done in the only waf
could be done.
• The SOLICITOR-GENERAL—" Marquess, voi,
the Interpreter) repeat, in Italian, the answer °
the witness."
The Interpreter accordingly did,
.as follorsti;
cc Sottola tenta unito a la Principessa." Belle° 0.
the tent, together with the Princesi ; and urn,
asking witness, he said, by together, he meant
two beds not joined.
Flow long did Bergarui continue to sleep in this manner
Until they landed at the Porto Auto.
it
Ask whether at night the tent was open, or whether
was closed all round ?—During the night the tent//,

closed. • lOC'
Who generally closed the tent ?—I was aciminalidcd to c '
it, and I commanded to others. into
Was it completely stopped that no one could seg of
it ?—I stopped it always as well as. I could with pie`es
canvas.

'Was the tent closed ?'—He pinned it down.
Did witness often see the Princess when the te"t ''.3
open ?-7Yes. bed.-
•: .
' Was her Boltil Highness in bed at, such times ?I"
for the most part. - • ei, i"
Where was Bergami when the witness saw the lir"'c .
bed ?—Geuerally in the tent. . , . ilitigt•
Did he see Bergami come out of the tent on a inui
when he first made his appearance?—Yes, generally.
liwaYs c"'
Was he always dressed at such time, or not ?..--,-- -
tirely dressed. • ' , it?...
When the tent was closed, was there any light witlt blo°
If there was light, it rmist come from without ; and if-
strong, the light was carried away. ' oink
to tint
Who was in
the habit of taking the light, belong:•-;',o p"
tent, away, when it was litinded out ?—The wtt"
nerally. • /......
Who handed out the light?—Bergami. ti . JO •
Did the Princess lie down on the bed, during

:Often. ,• • •
Did she do so sometimes after dinner ?—Yes-;
Has witness seen'iletimmi there at the same "•
Has witness closed the tent when her Royal 141.'
,Bergaoii were there, as he has described ?—Y"' ce'4
Was that after dinner I—Sometimes.
li the Prin
When the tent has been so closed down, w'tv.- d jowl'
:and • Bergami in it, .how long did it remain el°“'
r DC
'About hall an boor, or a quarter, or an hour. w"
The witness has said, he has seen the Princess

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