The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-09 00:00:00

RE SuN:_ LONDON; 'WEDNRSDAY, FEBRUARY 9,184 k.

Davis, R. Light, Alfred Pluekrose, Wm. Henderson, W.
Livermore, J. Rickards, Wm. Connor, Mary Regan.
• Several others were sentenced to varicus periods of impri-
sonment,

IMPERI

MEN T.

HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 8.
The LORD CHANCELLOR took, his seat on the Wool-
sack shortly after Five o'clock.
Lord DUNC.ANNON moved for several petitions re-
FeyrlB42 f!
lating to the Slumber, names; and residences of the Irish
Stipendiary Magistrates, who had been in office from the
Ist of October 1840, to the Ist of October 1841 ; of the
names and residences of those who'were dismissed in the
3r ;
sntdosf i similar
areturnsr •._(imott.hdporeldst.
( of October 1841,
CORN-LAWS.
Lord BROUGHAM begged to call the attention of
their Lordships to a petition which he held in his hand,
to the
and which he considered of great 'importance, both by
reason of the subject and of the body from which it pro-
ceeded. It was a petition from a Conference lately held at
Edinburgh, and which, having sat for three days, came to
a unanimous determination on the subject of the' Corn-
laws ; that was, a petition for their total repeal. That
conference, as perhaps was known to their Lordships,
was composed of the ministers and elders of the
various Dissenting congregations throughout Scot-
land. He understood that originally. an intention
was announced from 712 Congregations to send
Delegates to the conference, but instead of that num-
ber falling off, as was usual in such cases, 602
congregations were represented by their elders and
ministers. The conference assembled in Edin-
burgh—they met day after day successively for
three days, and the number who attended varied
from 1,400 to 1,600 daily. The debate was carried on
with the greatest possible order. In temper, manner,
and tone, there was the greatest moderation. He would
not trouble their Lordships with reading the petition,
important as it was, for the arguments which the
petition used were the same as were often urged
in that House, and were fainiliar to their Lordships.
The prayer was for a total repeal of the Corn laws,
and when he read in their own words the perfect im-
partiality with which they treated the plans both of
the late Government and of the present, their Lordships
would see that if any charge could be made against
their proceeding-, it could not be that of faction.- They
said that they view with equal disapprobation both plans
—both the sliding scale of Sir B. Peel and the fixed duty of
Lord John Russell. They passed an equal condemna-
tion upon all projects for taxing -the food of the people,
and they denounced them as opposed to religion and mo-
rality, and injurious to the best interests of sOciety. Ile,
however, and his Noble Friend behind him (Lord
Radnor, we believe,) entirely differed from the pe-
titioners on the ~grounds on which they put
their objections to the Corn-laws. He did not
regard the qUestion as a religious one at all, or one of
morality. Ile did not think that morality or religion was
at all connected with the question, unlesS by a very
strained construction. But he agreed with them in their
last statement, that the Corn-laws were adverse to the
best interests of society. Although this was a con-
ference only from Dissenting congregations, it was
not to be inferred that the congregations of the
Established Church did not hold the same opinions.
He was aware of no reason why a conference of Dis-
senting Ministers should be holden on this question
more than on any Other political question. He had
stated his opinions to the conference, but they had,
notwithstanding, intrusted this petition to his hands.
He (Lord Brougham) had never been one who had in
any way put upon exaggerated grounds his advo-
cacy of the repeal of the Corn-laws. He had
never held out the prospect of such a repeal very
much lowering the price of bread and other provisions
of this country ; that it would lower them to a certain
extent he had no doubt ; that it would lower them to
such an extent as had been stated by the advocates of
repeal, lie did not believe. There could not be a greater
error than those committed, who, in their zeal, allowed
themselves to be led into exaggeration ; it was
a mode of diminishing, and not of increasing, to
exaggerate ; ••erite it was like an unskiful person
looking through a magnifying glass, which might be so
used as to diminish, instead of to magnify. There was,
however, a great portion of truth in the argument by
which the total repeal of those lawswas supported, That
the best interests of society required their immediate re-
vision, which, if fairly performed, would lead to a total
repeal of those laws, he firmly believed. He would not
now do more than simply present the petition, and request
their Lordships' favourable ear to its prayer.
A Message from the CommonS brought up the Appro-
priation Act Amendment Bill.
Lord BROUGHAM presented petitions from Kilmar-
nock, Arbroath, Paisley, and several other parts of
Scotland, in favour of a total repeal of the Corn-laws.
The Noble Lord also presented a petition from Usher's
Quay, Dublin, praying for an alteration in the Irish
Marriage Act.
Lord- STRAFFORD presented petitions from different
parts of -Ireland, praying for an alteration in the Irish
Marriage Act.
On the motion of the Marquis' of NOR MANBY a
return was ordered of the Magistrates appointed since
the Ist of February, 1841.
On the motion of the Duke of WELLINGTON, the
Appropriation Act Amendment Bill was read a first
time, and ordered to be read a second time On ThurSday.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition
from Arbroath, in favour of the repeal of the
Corn-laws. The Noble Marquis stated he had now

to call the particular attention of the House to the
petition of which he had given notice of his intention to
present; it was from a body so respectable and so deeply
interested in the commerce of the country, that
he felt it to be his duty to bring the .sub-
ject of it specially before the attention 'ot the House.
They had peculiar reasons for calling attention to
the subject, and bringing their views under their Lord-
ship's consideration. He had then to present to the
.use the state of the woollen manufactures of the
counties of Norfolk, Somerset, and Wilts, and he should
state to the House the mode in which those petitions
were agteed upon towards th close of last year. The
business in all those countries had considerably de-
creased ; upon communication between the master manu-
facturers of Leeds and the other parts of England, a
meeting was called for the purpose of throwing light
upon the .subject, and ascertaining the opinions of
the people of the West of England. Accordingly a meet-
ing was held at Bath, and there facts were stated
for the purpose of eliciting a statement of the ge-
neral condition of trade, and to enable the meet-
ing to lay those facts before that House, per-
sons of all descriptions v,'ere summoned to attend,
and they did attend ; and after a lengthened communi-
cation, and after much discussion had taken place, they
came to a resolution which they embodied in the petition
which it would be his duty then to, lay before the House,
That petition was the same as others in many
respects, but in others it also materially differed.
—(hear, hear.) It was very numerously signed; in the
first place, it stated that it was the opinion of the
petitioners that there was now a considerable
failure in the woollen trade, and that the
restrictions upon provisions had reduced and
neutralized trade, and pauperised the working classes.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) .'These evils were produced
by partial legislation, and more especially by the
Corn and Provision laws. The petition further stated
that all restricting and prohibitory duties upon provisions
were most prejudicial to the interests of all classes of the
community, and that all duties intended for the protec-
tion of British manufacturers should be repealed.
'These were the facts stated in the petition, and in the
first place he (the Noble Marquis) felt bound to state
that he believed they were well founded. There was
too much general declamation upon these subjects, but
facts could be adduced in support of it. The petition states
that in the town of Bradford; in 1820. there were 19
manufactories producing62o pieces of cloth weekly; from
1841 these 19 were diminished to two, and the number
of pieces of cloth were reduced to 200 a week ;
of the nineteen manufacturers, nine had failed
since 1820, five had given up for want of success,
and the remainder gradually discontinued busi-
ness. There was another principal town in Somer-
setshire, which, twenty years ago, had twenty-
eight woollen manufactories, now there are only
fifteen, and those not fully employed ; five were occa-
sionally employed, and throe were converted to other
purposes. He would not trouble their Lordships with any further
details on this point, though further details had been put into his
hands. lie was sure that he had stated enough, if any one of
their Lordships entertained a doubt upon the subject, to prove that
there was a rapid declension in their manufactures ; and to prove
that the consequence of that declension must be an increase of
misery, an increase in the Poor-rates, and a diminution in the
in the trade to quit
tonstimption of agricultural produce ltiio tahegrneaetigerhbeoluterhnototdhaonf
those towns, he had heard it said, and perhaps he had him-
distarsicesne to others.
twitesir
wits
bjueestnitilaehdieto,
dispositionethnattertthaeinrethweasopainion
that part of the country to which he was then alluding, and to
establish itself in other and more distant districts, particularly
those of the northern part of the kingdom but on entering
and in theo greatest degree,
into communication with these individuals, ho found that they
acknowledged no ground whatever fort supposingto that the trade
They had
they might
that in the
appeal with great confidence),woollen manufacture
even in that of the districts of the north, and of Scotland,
al‘p.apsearleedmototintghe irfaocint (athnedseit .
flou-
rished, the same distress and depression was found to exist.
He stated th ,t the petitioners
the
o opinion that the Corn-
where it the most recently,
reat
laws, if not the principal, were ff
1.) r d of the depres-
sion of trade. He was not himself
that
pie a to say that the
Corn-laws were the sole cause, of depression ; he was
d to think that they caused it to that
not, perhaps, dispose
overwhelming degree to whichpetitioners
considered many of those '
we 11 advised, l
that if thereoners
considered they did ; but he was
producing that
were other causes that worked in declension, it
was the Corn-laws which interfered with every natural re-
medy, and deprived trade and commerce of that vis medicalrix
which they drew from one source, to remedy casual evils which
they felt from another. It deprive
d
thoseremediese of their
efficiency at the very moment when
their effi") The petitioners had
stated a fact so. strongly, so simply, and so strikingly,
illustrative of this view of the subject, that he must beg leave
•
to lay it before their Lordships. In the course of last autumn
sonic of the principal manufacturing establishments in those
districts had consigned a considerable quantity of cloth to the
United States on limited credit, and, in consequence of the
monetary embarrassment which occurred in America, it, was
impossible to obtain payment; but the agents of those persons
stated,, that though they could not _pay in money they could
have remitted corn ; but, in "eonsequence of the state of the
Corn-laws, the manufacturers were unable to avail themselves
of this offer. It had also been proved that the depression
was not owing to the withdrawal
of the orders
of the East India ComPanY• eensequenee of
these circumstances, these manufacturers craved their
Lordships to repeal all prohibitory duties,
sort all
monopoly duties of protection which were not intended for pur-
poses of revenue. He felt that the proposition was made at a
period at which there was a promise of a charge taking place,
and when the Corn-laws were about to share the fate of the
woollen duties, he trusted with as beneficial a result to the agri-
cultural interest as the abolition of the foreign duties had
proved to be. The time had now arrived when the defects
of the Corn-laws had become too apparent to be overlooked.
Their mischievous effects upon trade and cornmerce were now
fully understood ; it was, therefore, necessary that some altera-
tion should take place. He entertained'now the same opinions
he had always done upon the subject, and those opinions were
that if any duty was imposed upon the necessaries of life they
should be fixed duties, ale had thought it noctoary to state

thus much on presenting the petition, considering the import-
ance and respectability of those who had signed it.
On the motion of the NOBLE MARQUIS the petition was
read at length by the Clerk.
Lord BROUGHAM was sure that his Noble Friend did
not mean to say that this was the only, instance in which a
body of manufacturers had petitioned yfer an abolition of all
protecting duties. It was true that in -
gnertahl it had appeared
that they were more in favour of
protection an of free trade.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE had only said that it was
very rare to receive a petition from a body of manufacturers for
the abolition of all protection.
Lord BROUGHAM remembered two instances of such pe-
titions, one of which was a petition, not from one body of ma-
nufacturers, but from delegates rom all the trades, which
prayed for the total repeal, not only of the COrn-laws, but of
every kind of protection. But the present petitioners wished
to have a fixed duty on earn, that is, a bread-tix.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—OnIy for the purpose of
revenue, not for protection. - - -
Lord BROUGHAM—If they wish for a filed duty on corn
for the purpose of revenue, that was in plain short language a
bread-tax.
Lord ASHBURTON was sure that he would not be ex-
pected on the presentation of a petition to enter into a discus..
sion of the questions of free trade, the Corn-laws, and the
causes of commercial, and manufacturing, and agricultural dis-
tress. Each of those topics would be sufficient for a whole even-
ing's discussion, yet, he could not allow the observations of the
Noble Lords opposite to pass without. a few words. He be-
lieved that there was really very great distress in those districts
of the West of England from which the petitions came. But
it appeared from the words of the petitioners themselves that,
out of 3,000 looms, fully one-half were unemployed. Now, as
ne'such decline of trade was experienced generally in other
parts of the country where the woollen trade was carried on, it
must be supposed that this particular. district was subject to
some disadvantage in carrying on that trade, which was not felt
in other parts of the country. The decline had not been sudden; it
had been gradually going on for years. The woollen manufac-
tures had in fact gone to the coal districts, from the west to the
north, just as the silk manufactures had gone from Spitalfields
to Manchester and Macclesfield. In fact, he believed that the
migration of particular branches of manufacture from one part
of the country to another—not to ray from one country to an-
other— was one of the penalties, as had been said by a Noble
Lord upon another subject, this country mu,t have to pay for
the possession of this kind of wealth. Whenever distress was
occasioned in one part by this sort of disturbance, or other
cause, the petitioners were not content to state the extent of
the distress, but to explain imaginary causes, and point out
s apposed remedies. There were always changes of some sort,
and nothing could be more mischievous than perpetual change
—one day a protecting duty, another day an alteration of
it, and again the transfer of the protection from one
branch, or one article, to another.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.")
lie was suprised that his Noble Friend had been deceived by
such a fallacy as the supposition that the Americans could not
trade with this country because we could not take their corn.
His Noble Friend seemed to think that the time had now ar-
rived when the millenium of free trade was to take place. No
one would more rejoice than he would at such a circumstance;
but vrhat was...the real fact? Why, every country in Europe
was endeavouring to exclude the articles of commerce of this
country. Whether the alterations contemplated by the pea.
tioners would be beneficial or not, he would not attempt to
say ; but, for himself, he believed that there was necessity for
protection.—(Haar.) He would say nothing with respect to
the present system of protection, but of this he was con-
vinced, that protection was necessary. He believed that
any Government that was foolish enough to propose a
total repeal of the Corn-laws would, bx doing so, sign
the warrant of their own destruction.—(Cries of " Hear.")
If the House considered the subject attentively, they would
find tbat the interest of the agriculturist and the general inte-
rest of the country would not be served by a total repeal of the
protecting duties. He (Lord Ashburton) wished to enter his
protest against the principle that whenever any distress existed
in the agricultural districts, that that should be a reason why
the Legislature should interfere and upset the whole system
acted upon in the country.
After some conversation, it was ordered that the petition
should be laid upon the table.
The Earl of MINTO presented a petition-from a place in
Scotland, praying for the immediate and total repeal of the
Corn-laws. The petition, which was signed by 1,600 persons,
prayed that all duties imposed apon articles of commerce were
founded upon principles of impolicy and injustice ; they there-
fore prayed the establishment of free trade in corn, and all other
articles of provision.
Earl FITZ WIL LIAM presented petitions from the borough
of Leeds,' and also from Nottingham, praying for the repeal of
the Corn and Provision-laws.
Lord MONI'EAGLE moved for copies of the appointments
of Mr. Percival and Mr. Eadon, together with the production
of the other papers of which he gave notice yesterday.
Lord CLIFFORD rose to beg their Lordships to postpone
till after the Easter recess a motion of which he had given no-
tice to the House on the Ist of October last, for the appoint-
ment of a Committee to inquire how far it was in the power of
the Government and Council of Madras to afford protection to
natives of this country and Hindostan, and to hear evidence on
the subject, and report it to the House. The reason why he
thought it necessary to bring thatmotion forward was, that the
Governor-General of India had asked fur the fullest informa-
tion on every point to which he had referred when speaking
upon thatsubject on a former occasion. He understood that a
report had been sent to the presidency of Madras, stating what
had taken place in that House on the 23d of September. His
speech on that occasion lasted upwards of an hour, but did not
occupy more than twenty lines of the columns of the newspapers.
He had, therefore, thought it necessary to;make a protest in the
papers as to the report which had appeared on the 24th, rela-
tive to what he had said on the 23d. If any of the reports
which appeared in the public papers of the 24th. had been for-
warded to India, those reports were only calculated to promote
confusion; and the question on which lie had addressed their
Lordships was one of so great consequence, that it was abso-
lutely necessary that false reports should not go abroad. He
would not now go further into the motion, which he wished
their Lordships to postpone till after the recess, but would
merely ask, whether any answer had been received at the
Board of Control, with regard to the information which had
been sent .out relative to the correspondence between Lord
William Bentinck and J. Manuel de Castro, the Governor of
Goa ? Notwithstanding the decided measures on the part of
the Crown of Englan3, by the law of India no Roman Ca-
tholic in mature could enter a Roman Catholic chapel, though
built with his own money on his own ground, without having the
service pet formed by people declared to be out of the See of Rome.
The Roman Catholic population had at present to submit to
the alternative of no entering a Roman Catholic chapel to
assist at divine worship, or of contravening the orders of the
head of their Church, by assisting at divine worship performed
by triests not in communion with the See of Rome. He would
not sly that he was quite positive on this subject, but the in-
formation he had received was from his own brother, who had
been a resident on the spot. Such was the state of the Catho-
lics of a large district, and it might be-the state of all the
Catholics io the Khistna. This was the statement to which
he had drawn the attention of their Lordships on the 23d of
September last, making a motion at the same time for the pro-
duction of certain papers; some of those papers were laid on
the table ; others it was declared could not be found at the
India House, which was the case with nearly all the papers
relating to the subject. He repeated his motion on
the 4th of October, and notwithstanding this declaration, the
papers were produced. He entreated their -Lordships, between
the present time and the Easter recess, to direct their atten-
tion in some degree to the subject, which he considered as one
of immense importance to the peace of India, and one on
which he thought it most material that no false reports should
go abroad. H had thought it right to protest against what
he had been made to say in the public papers, though he did
not think htmself called on to state what he did say on that
occasion. When the aggrieved parties came forward, as they
intended to do, with a petition and address to her Majesty, and
not till then, he should bring his motion forward. He had ex-
pected that the address and petition would by this time have
arrived in this country, but circumstances had occurred to pre•
vent it; he expected both the petition and the address, how-
ever, would reach this country by tha Easter recess, when they
would be presented in due form. He was not authorised to
state the precise terms in which they were couched, but there
was one particular about them which had pleased him much.
In the address to the Queen, it was expressly stated, that if,
on examination it should be found that any injury had been
done to any one, it was the petitioners' first request that no
vindictive measures might be taken on their account against
the persons who might have aggrieved them. They asked for
tranquillity and security for the future, and not for vengeance
for the past, which they utterly disclaim. Ile concluded by
asking the Noble Lord the President of the Board of Controul,
if he had received any further communication on the subject?
Lord FITZGERALD agreed with the Noble Lord in the
importance of the subject he had broughtbefore the House, and
when the matter was brought before it in a proper shape ho
was sure that it would meet with that attention which it de-
served ; at present, hots ever, all that he could say was, that
information had been received on the subject that clay, but the
Noble Lord who had sent it accompanied it with a statement
that he was afraid it would not be so satisfactory as it might
have been had more time been allowed.

After a few observations from Lord CLIFFORD, the sub-
ject dropped.
The 1-louse Adjourned shortly before Seven o'clock to
Thursday.