The Sun.
London, England, 1829-04-04 00:00:00

se -ions -aiteratiotta in our -laws. Between distant and
speculative dangers, and pressing and urgent ones
we are now placed ;—it is between these two we
are bound to balance, and upon that we take the
quotation into eonsideretien. My Lords, after what
has fallen from Noble Lords, there can be no
question of the necessity of well considering this
subject. For me, upon this subject I have been
unfortunate enough, as I am afraid I Imre agreed with
but few friends. I have been considered as a Liberal.—
(Lattghter.)—All the mischief' that now press have
been hid upon my shoulders.—(Continued peals of
laughter.)—On the other side I have been marked—none
had the honour of being more marked as a persecutor
and a bigot, because I have always attended to that
line of conduct which I have thought would best lead to
the peace and tranquillity of the country, and by which I
would continue to be guided.—(Cries of Hear, bear.)—
I say, my Lords, I had the peat honour of giving
to the people of Ireland every privilege that the British
Constitution allows, with the exception of a few offices
and that of Members of Parliament. I resisted giving them
seats in Parliament, and some political offices, and I don't
envy the situation of many of those who acted otherwise
but am rather proud of my conduct—proud that I was
enabled to put the people of Ireland into all situations
except seats in Parliament, and some offices; and Ido
not envy much this measure, which will at this day, in
any way detract from the liberties of the people
by taking from them their franchise. My Lords,
had the honour, much to the dissatisfaction of some,
of doing that, and I shall now continue to do all in my
power to give to the Catholics of England that which 1
rad under his late Majesty the power to give to Ireland,
and, I believe, if instead of yielding to their turbulence, due
attention had been paid to the loyal Catholics of Ireland, the li
anbappy dilemma in which we are placed would net now
have been brought about. However, in that dilemma we
are new placed, and after the speech of the Noble Duke
end hie Majesty's speech there can be no doubt of the
urgency of the measure. My Lords, the powers of Go-
vernment are paralysed. What is the cause of that?
The great mischief then is the divisions of the
Protestant. of Ireland. That has given power to the Ca-
tholice, and taken away the power of resistance, In my
mind it is necessary for the preservation of the Church,
and the exigencies of the State, that the minds of the
Irish Protestants should be set at rest.—(Hear.)—From
what cause this dilemma arises may by some he considered
doubtful. To what cause I shall attribute it in the first
instance ts, to the Noble Lord opposite. My Lords,
I personally blame no man, but it is became it has
tt.en made the source of English and of Irish party
that the subject has been continually worked upon,
and the public irritated. The next party whom I charge
with this are the landholders and gentlemen of Ireland, who,
fir election purposes, have sacrificed themselves and the state.
My Lords, they have forgot their influence in their own
country, and given their legislative powers to the Catho-
lito.—e Hearn—But there is another clans, and I am
afraid I must put myself into it, I mean every Member of
nay Lord Liverpool's Government for the last ten years.—
It ie therefore, to look to the situation we .tand
in, and to givegi„ an account of it. In the first place, let
us see what happenedon the appointment, in the first
instance, of a gentleman whd entertained those opinions
strongly, to be the Minister of that country..--(Hear. )
The Secretary of State for that country ie responsible for
the consequences that have taken place, because it is ime
poseible for any man to suppose that any Government fa-
vourable to the Constitution of this country could have placed
in the Government of that country agentlemanof his opinions.
',V are bound to kook with fear upon those person; who
have thus conducted the business which has brought us
lute this dilemma. My Lords, what was the next step?
Perhape the Noble Lord opposite (Elden) will admit
that it was the appointment of the Attorney General
to that country, a person still different in his opinions
upon it. The Noble Lord will, perhaps, excuse me
for saying, and also a Noble Marquis, a friend of mine,
that however I may differ from thew, 1 will do
the Catholics the justice to say that they were al-
ways mare ready and willing to execute the laws
than the lawyers and Ministers of this country.—(Great
?righter.)—My' Lords, I have heard a great deal of
English common law, and I have heard the; the law
against the Association was not rightly executed ;
that it the law against the Association was not sufficient, 4
other lava ought to have been made. With that opinion
perfectly agree. I hope no one will attribute to me,
or any Noble Lord, that for the purpose of keeping
office we were actuated by unworthy motives.—(Hear. )
Certainly there was no one who could not see to what these
things would lead. But it was hoped that better thins
would come, and we were afraid of bringing on the
crisis. The crisis did come, and what was the result?
The appoint meat of Mr. Canning, and the adoption ,pf those
measures by the Government'which have brought Ireland
and England into that state in which I agree with the
::';toble Dake, it is necessary there should now be a
settlement of the question. My Lords speaking on
this subject, I had almost forgotten his Majesq's visit to
Ireland. Who were the persons who were present ehert?
Who, but those who etc now the Catholic Bishops, who
;te their paraphernalia made en address to his Ma-
joint. Was that no symptom? could not that lead
men to expect something, and, last of 411, the lett-r
that was written on the subject. All these things must
have led men to expect what was to come to pads.
I should have been ashamed, after the statement which
had been made by the Noble Lord, to have troubled the
House at length, but I cannot forbear mentioning a story of
Eraenane.—(Hear, hear, hear, and laughter.)-1 mean a
dialogue between Charon and an evil spirit, ta which
the latter told him that he must have a larger beet,
for there were so many souls coming over the river Styx
ie consequence of religious disturbances, that his present
bark would lie unable to carry them over. I think that
story is peculiarly applicable to the present ante of the
country, for the father is now against the son, the brother
against
tne brother,and the landlord divided from the tenant,
and hardly say thing was now voting for them to come
Ltd blows. Such is the division of epinion amongst all
classes of persons, that I repeat the words, tie landlord is
divided from the tenant, end even the fair sex—(iateghter)
take part in broils. Every body ie trying to do this for
she sake of humanity towards the poor Irish, who are
coneorned in this question as much as the people of Mogul.
should chink that the sooner this matter is brought to
the contest the better, but it mast be clearly seen that
the mischief is with ourselves, and the Roman :Ca-
tholics of Ireland Lye no disposition to act harshly
towards us if we only do 4,,.em lustice.—(hlear, bear. j---
It is true we have had a /dila to put down the Catholic
Association, but is there any one man who supposes that
he can execute that law,—(hear, hear,),4sc I assert that
all laws, strong as they are, are carried by pix.b.rt,e
ll recollect that I put down the volunteers who had ear
tnany years domineered over that country' with
a simple proclamation. We then put dawn a more dan-
gerous association, but then we had the Paetestants of
Ireland and the people of Vingiand to support us unani-
mously. Now, however, you have a part of the
Pronotants of Ireland, and nearly the whole of
the landed proprietors, aesen tient to this mea-
sure, became they think it will improve their estates.
You have also a large majority of the House 40:nmans
in favour of it.—(Hear, 1.,),--I will now ask if, under
tliese circumstances, there is any Noble Lord who evil
take upon his Herculean shoulders the danger and
responsibility of refusing this concessien.—(Hear, hear.)
think no men has a right to resist this measure, unless
he is prepared to meet that danger and digiculty. lam
not only one of those who uppreve of this measure on
account of the policy of it, hut from what ought
most to operate on the consideration of il, the
present benefits to Ireland that will result from
it. Whatever the next grievance may be, for there will
still be some OUP, it will be long before so large a ma-
jority:of people of all rant:swill he enlisted Lia their cause. I