The Sun.
London, England, 1818-02-04 00:00:00

INTERNAL STATE OF IHE COUNTRY.

The Order for summoning their Lordships
ing read, •

Viscotmt.SmmonTß,-pursuant to the notice by
bad given, moved that the papers and documents
which-he had yesterday presented by command of
ihe,Prince. Regent, he referred to the considera-
tion of a Secret Comtniitee.
On the Qnestion,

The Marquis of LANSDnWNfi had to express
his apprehension that the proposed investigation
,vas Meant .as a prelude to the adoption of certain
legislative measures, of a nature and effect which
he could not, consistent with his duty., approve.
The information thus communicated was-natural-
ly supposed to relate to.the conduct of his Wes:-
ty's Government, connected with the state of the
country for some time last. The proposed mode
did not appear to him•as likely to afford an im-
partial and
,satisfactory view of the subject., . To
induce these, the, fullest inquiry should be
.insti-
tuted particularly to ascertain whether or not it
should be followed by the measure which he con-
templated.. And, in any point' of view, ~he
thought such a proposition .required some pre-
vious explanation on the part of the Noble Secre-
tary of State. -

Viscount SID:SW(ITH explained,•that the. course
of proceediug,adopted in the present instance was
in strict unison with those precedents which pre-
vailed,- as to the particular practice of their Lord-
ships' House. _ Last yeas-. she proceedings -cer-
tainly, commenced in, pursuance of a Royal Mes-
sage, under. which they were originally institut-
ed ; but, subsequently, the mode now adopted
was pursued. It was not for hint to presume to
strike out what the course.of proceeding in the:
Committee should be, or to say.what measure
tray likely to result from their Lordship' Report.
All he proposed .was, to rater the rapers to a
Committee of Secrecy ; and, on the Report which.
the Colnmittee should make, it would be for the,
House to consider what measures should he
founded on it. He had no hesitation in stating,
that the, purpose was. to put their. Lordships in
possession, through the medium ofa Committee,
of correct information as to the internal state of
the Country since the ,report of last Session, anti
the manner its which his Majesty's GovernMent
had acted in relation to it. With
.respec to the
other House of r oadw
iament, its piactice as.to
authorise its' , Committees to send for persons,
papers,.. and records. With their Lordships it
was different ; their.comtuittee, if it thought pro-
pel., may apply to.the House to order the attend=
ante of witnesses, who would previously be
sworn at the Bar of the House, and which was
generally dove on_ the motion of. the Chairman
This mode of procedure was sanctioned by uniform
precedent.
The Earl of. CARNARVON was of opinion the
Uotise migh.t.he more deliberate, in its conrseof
proceeding—there existed no. necessity for expe-
dition. The 'country was stated from ant itority
!o be in internal peace and tranquillity; their Lord-
ships, therefore, had not to act its this affair upon
the , spur. of the occasion. 'Fite province of. the
Committee was avowedly to. inquire how Mini-
ster's had acted ; but it was evidently little short
of deluding the country: to hold. it out as. possible
that a full or proper inquiry could be instituted
upon information furnished ,by Ministers alone,
who naturally would lay before it only such evi-
dence as
,they thought proper. The Report of the
.Committee sboticl, in_ justice, he considered in
connexion with the judicial proceedings which
had taken place, and with which Ministers seemed
so enamoured. • No danger could now. be asserted
as likely to result front such a mode, of proceed-
ing. But he feared the course adopted in 1501
was strictly meant to be followed here—that of
laying a foundation -for • a Bill of Indemnity,
which would shield them from all. prosecutions to
which their conduct may otherwise give rise; even
front injuries which might have resulted front the
conduct of agents employed by Ministers them-
selves. An inquiry.'in the way proposed could
neither be regarded as impartial, nor expected to'
afford satisfaction to the country. It should he
general, and both sides of the question fairly in-
vestigated ; .and. pet haps it would appear that
'much of the evil .that had fallen ow, may ,be trkteed.
to the very office of the Noble Viscount himself.
It was in rain, he must repeat, to expect a full
surf fair inquiry, when, the -whole was to be
founded on statements furnished by . Ministers
themselves.

The Earl of Livitroor. said, that the question
now bef►►re the.Ho►tse was whether it wouldfol-
low the course which had been the uniform prac-
tice of Parliament' with respect tci, all such cases.

V.":72lth respect to suet! procce ings, occasionally
- originating. in a M. ssaee trout the Crown, it could
inat:e no material tinferenee ; because the option
as to the: tu o modes would alike test with his
Majesty's Ministers. The practice of that I-louse
was not to delegate to its Committees the !tower
"of sending for persons, papers, and vecords.k.it was
fiir Ilicc.;oottnitree. itself,. f.sho'ltl& it, deem, expe7
Client, to apply specifically to the House for such
a: power. The Committee, therefore, would have
the power, if it should deent.it necessary, of calling
for further information; and the mode now pro,
posed was sanctiooed.by the almost uniform prac-
tice of the Hott,.e i.n such.cases.,, Tinder such cir:-
eurnstances, lie could entertain no doubt 04 lo the
course which their Loidships would now think
tit to adopt. , The present was not the pro-
per time for meting into . aoy detailed
discussion upon the subject ; nor could he
think of anticipating what •• would be thE
coo their Lordships would adopt in relation tai
the: report. With respect, however, to what the
Noble Earl,had thrown out relative to the judicial
proceeding's, lie must say, that a reference to those
trials would prove so far that the report of their
Lordships' last Committee was Confirmed and
borne out, instead of being invalidated.. It was
proved the existence of, the
,eircumstances alleged
were founded in. tact, not only by repeated deci-
sions of Grand. Juries, hot by what had transpired
at the trials .which actually took place. Mils of
indictment had been found.against 50 persons, of
whom 36 were, either convicted on full trial, or
had unequivocally confessed their own guilt. He
begged Jeave.al,o to remind.the Noble Lord, that
it was the nuanimons.opinion of the Committees
of both Houses of Parliament that. the Habeas
Corpus Act should_be.sospended. In the preseut
instance, the proposed Committee could in its dis-
cretion exercise the poWer of calling for further
information on the subject before them, should
they think prOper so to do.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, it was far
from his intention to offer any opposition to the'
mot ion
_; on the contrary, it was his opinion that
the subject should go to the consideration of. a'
Committee. What he meant to say was, that
under the particular circumstances of the case, it
might be advisable to institute a more extensive
scale of inquiry. In the present mode, where all
the information was to come front Ministers.them-
selves, the result of such an inquiry, he must say,
could not be expected to prove satisfactory to the
country..

The. Earl of CARNAEVON explained:that be had
not said the reports were falsified by the
but that they were far from being borne out by
the judicial. proceedings., The Noble Earl seemed
to conceive the idea that they were borne out by
the decision of a Grand Jury • it should be re-
collected, howeVer, that those decisions, as well
as those to be expected from the Committee, pro-
ceeded entirely upon ex pare evidence.
The question was then put, and the papers were
ordered to be referred to the consideration of a
Secret Committee ; and further, on the motion, of
the,Noble Secretary, of State, that the said Com-
Mittee be balloted (or, in the usual way, at five
o'clock. on Thursday next ; to which , day their
Lordships adjourned.