The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-02 00:00:00

T rill, SUN, Ltil4o,olqc gAttfßlYAit- kV—ENING:, .TTILY 2;14841

their own resources. On the 18th, it was stated that if
they did not soon see symptoms of an improved state of
trade, he had no doubt the Magistrates would think it
their to make representations to Parliament as to
the destitution existing in that town. He feared that
any attempts to raise additional supplies would prove
unsuccessful. He now came to the memorial presented
to that House by the Provost, the Magistrates, and the
Town-council of the town of Greenock. In that me-
morial it was stated that great distress had existed for
the last few months amongst the working classes of
Greenock. In the month of March last a public meeting
of the inhabitants was held, at which arrangements were
made for the purpose of raising funds for the benefit of
the unemployed. Upwards of 2,0001. were raised, by means
of which four or five hundred persons were relieved.
They were obliged to resort to the expedient of pawning
their furniture. Since the month of June last, 1,960
hands had been discharged in that town, more than
three-fifths of the number employed, and the other two-
fifths would have been discharged ere this, but for the
humanity of their masters. The memorial also stated
that the people had been called upon for poor-rates,
although the distress was increasing. The document
was signed by the Provost of .the town, and several
other Magistrates. He believed the distress extended to
all the principal :towns both •in England and Scotland.
(The Hon. Gentleman then read a list of towns in which
deep suffering was stated -to prevail) He felt per-
suaded that if some remedy were. not devised tbr the
evil, the star of those kitigdeins would set ere long.
He thought that the universal distress which prevailed
might be summed up in a few words. Trade was de-

stroyed, taxation was a grievance, want of employment
was also a grievance, and the danger was rapidly in-
creasing. He should be glad to hear if any of her Ma-
jesty's Ministers were able to contradict the statements
he had made. Ile had endeF,voured, in the shortest time

the forms of the House allowed, to bring the subject be-
fore the House. He would .jot attempt to ascribe causes,
neither would he venture to prescribe a remedy, as it was
not his province, nor did he possess the qualification.
He had made these statements, and be would be bound to
prove them before a Committee, and he would prove that
the distress existed to a much larger extent than he had
stated. He had no hesitation in saying that the
country was in a most ruinous and depressed state.
The time was come when they must turn the scale, for
unless some measures, which had not yet been promul-
gated to the country, were brought before Parliament,
the most disastrous results would .follow. It was with
this view that he would submit his resolutions to the
House. He hoped her Majesty's Government would
give them their immediate attention, as he had stated
that the last resolution was the one upon which he most
depended. The-resolutions were :—" 1. That the trades
and manufactures of this country are labouring under
great embarrassment and difficulties. 2. That the indus-
trious classes are also suffering many privations, and se-
vere distress. 3. That this state of things has been
gradually advancing for several years, and is now ex-
tending in a most alarming degree. 4. That the altera-
tions made in the Corn-laws, and in the duties on imports
and exports, coupled as these have been with an Income-
tax, to add nearly four millions of taxation to this already
heavily burthened country, cannot be expected to afford
that reliefwhich th e con tin ually declining state of trade, and
the distressed condition of the people, so urgently require.
5. That the welfare of her Majesty's faithful people, and
the future peace and security of the country, imperatively
demand that effectual me-:_ares shall immediately be
taken to rescue the working classes from the privations
and suffering they have so long borne, with a degree of
patience and fortitude which specially entitle them to
the affectionate sympathy of their Sovereign, and to the
respect, commiseration, and assistance of this House.
6. That therefore an humble address be presented to
her Majesty, praying that her Majesty will be graciously
pleased to refuse her conserk; to the prorogation of Par-
liament, until a diligent and searching inquiry shall be
instituted into the causes of the unprecedented distress
existing at present all over the kingdom ; and there-
after, until her Majesty and this House shall have been
assured, by her Ministers, that effectual means are se-
cured to provide sustenance 6)r the unemployed and
their destitute families, until their sufferings shall be.
terminated by a demand for. their industry and wages for
their labour," He should not object to a residution with
a similar object, though the terms were somewhat dif-
ferent from his own ; but tbo principle must be the same.
Mr. WALKER, who WILY totally inaudible at the
commencement of his speech, was understood to coin-
plain of the dreadful distress of the cotton spinners of
Lancashire, who were wandering about the country iu
hundreds, in the most abject state of poverty, being
quite unable to obtain a day's employment. In his own
immediate neighbourhood in Lancashire there was a
large foundry which used to give employment_to two
hundred persons. That establishment was, within the
last two months, broken up, and all those persons were
thrown out of employment. The House had now taken
up the subject, but he felt satisfied that they would
never arrive at a proper remedy until they removed the
restrictions which fettered commerce.

The question having been put, •
Dr. 130 WRING confessed thet he felt oppressed with
the burden of a heavy respocaibility, because the distress
of the district with which he was connected was even
greater than that of other places ; and if he could dream
that this House, representing, as it ought, the intelli-
gence, the benificence, and the sympathy of the country,
could separate without taking into consideration the state
of the suffering millions, then be should wholly participate
in that despair which was gradually taking possession of
suffering labourers and deserving multitudes. There
never was a period in the history of the country requir-
ing more the attention of the Legislature than the pre-
sent. The Right Hon. Baronet admitted that there were
1,200,000 relying for support on the public, and could
they view without alarm and anxiety one-tenth of the
population reduced to such a state ? An expense of
eight millions had been incurred in the prosecution of
wars, which many Members of that house considered

to be wanton and. unnecessary, and all those means by
which relief could be afforded to the people through the
removal of commercial restrictions were shut out.: It was

not only intolerable but perilous to allow the people to
remain in their present state—no person could answer for
the consequences. There was a point beyond which
human patience could not extend—beyond which
patient endurance would bo exhausted.—(Bear, hear.)
The Right Hun. Gentleman held the reins of power with
greater force than any Minister whom they had seen for
many a year. Ile knew that any proposition of his would
be carried by the House. He had acknowledged the
amount of suffering in the country, and lie (I)r. Bow-
ring) could not believe that they were to be dismissed to
their homes with the tale that nothing could be done fur
the people. A country like this really ought not to de-
spair. It had again and again been said, that the apti-
tudes of the country were greater than those of any
other. The people were industrious and intelligent.
Capital was so plentiful that means could nut be found for
its investment. They had the ocean at their control,
and yet it was a fact, that the Government ruled over
millions who were in the greatest distress, and conse-
quent despair. And yet these were the men to whom
they owed their power ; those were the men who had

caused their reputation to be known in every nation of
the world ; those were the men, millions of whom were

suffering, and no means were taken to relieve their dis-
tress. The Poor-laws made most imperfect provision for
the sufferings of the people. It they were efficient, no
suffering would exist. In the district with which he was

connected, they were wholly inefficient. You might go
from house to house, and find neither bed nor furniture,
and the population were sinking lower and lower in the
scale of humanity. The present state of things was most
perilous to the public peace. He had much pleasure in
seconding the proposal of his Hon. Friend.

Mr. AGLIdStY was not willing that the debate
should close without some observations. If he were

asked what remedy he had to provide he should be
obliged to confess that he saw no remedy whatever. This
was no party question ; and he could not think that any
one would be so unjust as to say that the Right Hon.
Baronet and his colleagues were indifferent to the pre-
sent state of distress. He regretted that the Government

had not taken what he consi;lered the best remedy, the
Corn-laws, into better consideration. On this potut he
did differ with them. Could he see any legislative re-
medy that could be applied he should be willing that the
House should extend its period of sitting in order to pro-
vide it. The subject, was, however, surrounded with
great difficulties. The distress which prevailed was
known to every one, and he believed it would be impos-
sible to exaggerate its intensity. In the town of Carlisle,
with which he was more intimately connected, the labour-

ing classes were exposed to the severest privations. It
was under these circumstances that he gave his vote in

favour of the resolutions, for all parties ;greed that the
distress was general and overwhelming. He feared that
there was not such a prospect of a good harvest as would
induce them to hope favourably of the state of the country
during the coming winter.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he was glad that he
had given way to the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat
down, for although he (Sir J. Graham) had no reason to
complain of the language used by lion. Members who
had taken their seats, yet he could not but say that Ow
Hon. Gentleman had done that which he (Sir James
Graham) conceived was only justice to her Majesty's
Ministers. In the first place he had directly admitted
that for the existing distress they were not to be deemed

responsible, and in the next place he had stated that he
believed that it was impossible that any Member of that
House could more deeply feel for that distress than did

-
her • Majesty's Government. In the first place he (Sir
J. Graham) would strongly deprecate,the use of any lan-
guage in that House which had a tendency to create public
dyspondency. He was quite satisfied that the inevitable
effect of such language would be to shake public credit,
and by shaking public credit materially aggravate that
distress itself, and diminsh every respect fur the interests
of this country, and shake its institutions. It was true
that in many parts there was great suffering, but on the
other hand there was great wealth and power. One
party had displayed great public virtue and great pa-
tience, which was consonant with the character of a
people governed by a representative system, which system
of representation stood forward as one of our permanent
institutions. He would refer to one expression, which
appeared to him to have fallen unguardedly from the
Honourable Gentleman VI, ho had just sat down ;
those expressions appeared to him to present a pic-
ture of a desponding character, but he trusted that
that would not be realised. The Honourable Gentle-
man stated that they might expect a bad harvest.
Now he (Sir James Graham) thought, that after three
bad harvests, it was to be anticipated that the present
was to be a good one. The Hon. Member f'or Bolton
had produced documents, on bringing forward his mo-
tion, which had been studiously avoided by the Hon.
Member who had brought forward the question. He
'.admitted, to the fullest extent, that great distress ex-
ished. ; but he thought 6,- riovernment would desert its
duty if it did not, when the honour of the country was
concerned, impole such taxes as would secure the ho-
nour and charalvr of the Nitish name. That had been
1
dui coUrde that the British Government had pursued,
and any itrzation they had brought forward had refe-
rence only to that consideration. He would deal more

•
especially with the circumstances brought under the eon•
sideration of the House by the Hon. Member for
Greenock. If it was dangerous on the one hand to
aggravate feelings of despondency, it was equally so on
the other to hold out false expectations of relief from
the public purse. If an example were wanting, the
Paisley case would afford it ; that was a
case of distress of a most remarkable cha-
racter, pervading a large manufacturing community.
Into the causes of that distress it perhaps might not be
profitable to go ; but he should assign as one cause the
nature of the manufactures carried on in the town. It
was a manufacture confined almost to one commodity ;
the export trade was connected with the United States.
From the disturbances in those States a sudden cessation
of trade did take place ; and besides that, the expected
failure in the Scotch banks caused a failure in the manu-
factures there. The Hon. Member talked of Christian
people not being treated with respect. He (Sir James
Graham) thought they had been treated with a feeling
much warmer than respect, and to the honour of Scot-
land be it stated that a sum of between 25,0001. arid
30,0001. was collected in behalf of Paisley. This sum,
however large, was expended. Local subscriptions fail-
ing, it was nece!sary to supply further funds. Her Ma.
jesty's Government endeavoured to promote public col-
lections in this metropolis. The Paisley case afforded
striking example of the danger of the Government inter•
fering in cases of this nature-. The Hon. Gentleman had
stated objections to the system of Government stores;
but that system had been adopted as less liable on the
whole to abuse than any other. The subscriptions did
not come solely from the Government, but a portion was
contributed by private individuals ; and there was no
desire to encourage a belief that the public purse would
be opened to an unlimited extent for the relief of the dis- I

tress in Paisley. The manufacturing community at large
were no doubt at present reduced to a very melancholy
condition. He (Sir J. Graham) had never denied the
existence of distress, and he deeply sympathised with
the sufferers. He entirely concurred. however, with the
Hon. Member for Cockermouth—a high authority on
the subject—that it was beyond the power of the Legis-
lature to devise an immediate remedy for the existing
evils. There were many circumstances which had of late
tended to depress our trade and manufactures. There
was, for instance, the war in China and the disturbances
in Central Asia. The consequences of these and other
events were deeply felt in this country, and he (Sir
J. Graham) did not believe that Parliament could apply
an effectual remedy, if they were to sit for a longer pe-
riod to consider the subject, as proposed by the Hon.
Member for Greenock. The simple remedy proposed by
Hon. Gentlemen on the other side was confined to a re-
peal of the G►rn-laws. So deep—so sincere, was his
sympathy with the state of suffering, that could he be-
lieve a change in the Corn-laws would remove that dis-
tress, no personal consideration should prevent him
going with them. But so far from that being the case,
he believed a sudden change in those laws would
reduce the farmers' labourers to the destitute condition
of the manufacturing population, and aggravate the evil
sustained by all. He believed the distress would only
iw increased by that sudden change, and, under these
feelings, nothing remained to him but to oppose the
motif,n.

Mr. WARD said that the Right Hon. Baronet had at
last given a tangible form to the debate. He could not ap-
prove of the form of the motion ; it was so ambiguously
worded ; they ought to have something positive and
tangible before them. The representations he had re-
ceived stated that it was impossible that any remedy
could be effective if they did not take the subject of the
Corn-laws into consideration. The whole trade of the
country depended on the freedom of intercourse and
commerce with other countries. He regretted that the
motion had not been brought forward somewhat later,
as he believed the more the Government inquired into
it, the more imperative they would find it to do some-
thing. The country asked the Government not to stand
between them and a better system ; they did not expect
wonders of the Legislature ; they did not expect them to
make unproductive branches of.trade productive, or to do
away with all the prejudices which restricted ourcommerce
with the continent of Europe. But they did ask them
to carry out their own principles, which they had them-
selves laid down, and which had been so ably expounded
by the Vice-President of the Board of Trade. He be-
lieved it was impossible to overrate the olepression at
Sheffield ; one-third of the population was out of ern-
'ployrnent, and the poor-rates were increasing to an extent
which the property of the town could not support. And
all those who were suffering distinctly traced their de-
privations to the operation of the Cern-laws. With those
feelings, he did put it.to the Right Hon. Baronet, whether
he would not be glad to have the shield of Parliament
interposed between him and such an amount of responSi-
bility. He did not approve or the motion, it was vague;
but he had stated what Parliament could do—they
could honestly consider. the Corn-laws. All these
iierable subscriptions were only blinking the real
'question; and he believed the Right Hon. Baronet had
arrived at the conviction that it would be necessary for
hiin to open the ports during the coming winter, and
that one of the first measures of the next session would
be an alteration of the law he had himself proposed.
Mr. WALKER explained.
_ _

,Mr. B. DISRAELI opposed the motion. The Hon.
'Member for Sheffield had alluded to the distress in that
town, and had stated that it might be remedied by a
repeal of the Corn-laws ; that might be all very well,
but there were other means of remedying the distress ;
it might be done by better commercial regulations.
Bat the Hon. Member had said it was not only Sheffield,
but Leeds. Now, with respect to that, he would ask,
did not the same commercial treaty which permitted
the goods of Sheffield to enter foreign ports, ap-
ply equally to Leeds, Birmingham, and Wolverhampton.
in all of which places it had been represented
the greatest distress prevailed? They had heard
a good deal lately of the French ordinance with respect
to increasing the duty on cotton and other articles the
produce of this country ; it was generally understood
that that was a great blow to industry in this country ;
he doubted whether it was, but this he believed, that
the cause of the distress was not single, but depended
solely on its foreign policy.—(Hear, hear.) ' He did not
wish to enter into any political discussion, but he wished
to show that their commercial prosperity was dependent,
in a great degree, upon their foreign policy.—(Hear.)
They lost the French commercial treaty, and the treaty
they obtained in consequence lost them their Levantine
commerce.—(Hear, hear.) Why, then, did they turn
round and say that the Corn-laws were the cause of
their present distress. The moment the French com-
mercial treaty was lost, the whole of their commercial
relations v, ith the East, the Levant, Egypt, India. and
China was disturbed.—(Hear, hear.) Of all our Eastern
markets, the most important and the most profitable was
the Chinese market. Tho Chinese were eminently a
commercial people, and our commerce with them was
rapidly increasing at the time the disturbances between
England and China commenced. Those troubles had
reduced the commerce with China to one-third of whut
it had been before. Here, in addition to the distur-
bances of the American markets, were great causes of
commercial distress, and yet those gentlemen who now
complained of this distress were the very persons who
had supported the late Government, to whose policy this
distress was owing. The Income-tax was the school-
master abroad, and that would occasion inquiry to be
made into the causes of the distress. No Minister for
the future would be suffered to silence discussion by
saying that negotiations were going on when they were
not, and that a treaty was not ratified when we were
acting on it.—(Hear, hear.) These things had occa-
sioned the distress, and not our agricultural policy. •
Mr. HUME agreed that our commercial interests had
suffered great injury from the non-ratification of the
treaty Of commerce with France, and from the disturb-
ance of the Levantine market. But the lion. Gentle.
man had omitted to make any allusion to the American
and German markets—markets more important than
those to which he had alluded, and from which it was
our own faults that we were excluded. If we had modi-
fied our Corn-laws at that time, America would not have
altered her tariff. From the. year 1825 to the present
time, English manufactures had been subjected to a very
heavy duty in America, sometimes amounting to 40 or
50 per cent., in consequence of the Corn-laws remaining.
This duty would have gone as profit to the manufac-
turers, or as wages to the labourers, if the Corn-laws had
been repealed. The delegates from the manufacturing
districts bad set forth to the country their views on this
subject. They prayed to be allowed to expound them
before the House. From the statements of those gen-
tlemen, it would appear that a person had sent out a
quantity of hosiery, for which he was to receive 216
barrels, of flour. Out of this he had to pay for freight
and charges 59 barrels, for duty in America 32 barrels,
and for the English duty 42 barrels. Both these ditties
were imposed in consequence of our Corn-laws ; for if
there were no Corn-laws in this country, the Ameri-

cans would not impose any, duty on our ma-
nufactures imported into America from this country,
He asked the Right Hon. Gentleman whether, if they
had listened to the arguments of America, that the. Bri-
tish labourer would not lave been in a state now of com-
fort and prosperity. The Right Hon. Secretary for the
Home Department said, that the distress had been accu-
mulating for years. Why, so it had, and it would go on
increasing, for they could not now send their goods to
those countries which had nothing but corn to return
them. The Americans in retaliation put on a duty of
20 per cent. on hardware, and other heavy duties, all
because we would not repeal the Corn-laws in this coun-
try. There was property in America which would enable
this country to receive 6,000,0001. in a few months in
payment of their debts, if these laws were repealed. So,
again, with respect to Germany and Prussia. Hon.
Gentlemen on the other side said, if you open
a free trade here, how do we know that
other countries will open their trade? He had
a letter in his hand, written by the Prussian Minister to
this country, in 1825, in which it was stated that the
importation of all foreign articles in Prussia was free,
with the exception of salt and playing cards, upon which
the Government held a monopoly, and that all that was
was required for a reciprocated system of free trade was
that the British Government should allow the importa-
tion of Prussian goods into this country, free. In this
letter these representations were made to Mr. Canning,
and the proposition was made by the Prussian Govern-
ment tc, him to allow Prussian goods to enter this
country free. The answer was dated July, 1826, and said
that their Lordships having fully considered the subject,
they could never entertain such a proposal Never
let any one say, after this, that foreigners had
thrown obstacles in the way of a reciprocal system
of free trade. If we had met other countries fairly we
should have had that system now. With respect to the
motion before the House, he was glad to hear that the
istress wa.s freely admitted and regretted. The Right
Hon. Baronet said that Paisley had suffered in conse-
quence of a
change in fashion, but he (Mr. Hume) found
that the hives in the manufacturing districts were still,
and the manufacturers of Birmingham and Sheffield
were not at work, therefore, the remark of the Right
Hon. Baronet did not apply to the state of
moment consume double the
a
dis-
tress. We could at this- general
mount of corn that this country produced, and yet
bey found that thousands were out of employraeut m

he country. Repeal the Corn-law, and such would not
be the ease, and he fully believed that the landed in-
terests would not suffer. The Right Honeurable
Baronet's reasoning was quite fallacious • 'on this
subject. The distress was general all over the
country, and that which at one part affected all.
The county of Forfar was ip a state of great distress.
Linen weaving was the trade which the people of that
county carried on. France 'and America were the prin-
ciple receptacles of their manufacture, but now they
would take very little. 'He would beg to read a letter
from Mr. Edward Baxter, of Dundee, in proof of what he
said. "In that town," said Mr. Baxter, " the poor's-rates
in 1840, were only 5,662/., last year the rates amounted
to 7.0871., and upwards of 1,200/. had been subscribed
for the relief of the poor. In January, 1842, the number
unemployed, who subscribed themselves as paupers, was
942, (and he would beg to remind the House that, before
a man in that country would. subscribe himself a pauper,
he must be in great distress.) Besides that, since that
time, four mills in the town had stopped work, throwing
695 men out of employment. Wages for spinning and
weaving were very low. in January, 1842, since then
spinning wages had been reduced 10 per cent., and other
wages from 14 to 16 per cent." What would be the result
in consequencie of the present ordinancea France, it was
almost impossible to conceive. What was to be done he
did not know. The Income-tax would rather add to
their distress. The tariff would, in time, do something,
but, in the mean time, the people were starving. There
was a remedy, however, to which the people all'
pointed, and he would ask them whether they
were not called upon to throw their ports open
and unburthen trade ? An lion. Member bad inquired
what would be the effect of the repeal of the Corn-laws ?
Why this would be the effect: Directly they knew abroad
that the orn-laws wer to be repealed, lage suplies
would coCme over here; the manufacturers lere wopuld
immediately commence their work again, till the goods
might be exchanged for corn, and the hands would be
immediately taken into employ. Notwithstanding the
patience and good conduct of the working classes, their
demands had been mocked at.--(No, no.) No ! He could
not mistake the votes of the House. They had denied
them bread—they had denied them their just demands.
Was food cheaper ? No, food was clearer.—(Hear, hear.)
The people asked for bread and they gave them stones.
Was that to relieve them ? They inust re-consider the
Corn-laws, that was the --Only remedy. The House
was acting a cruel and" hard-hearted part, and on that
ground he thanked his Hon. Friend for bringing his
motion before the House. They might cavil about the
remedy, but he (Mr. Hume) thought the repeal of the
Corn-laws was the best remedy: If the Government had
a remedy, let them try it but do not consign the whole
population of England to misery, destitution, and death.
11Ir. M. ATTWOOD w9s understood to say that
America had, to a certain extent, followed the free trade
policy recommended by the Hon. Member fur Montrose,
and the consequence was that the distress in America
was second only to that which existed in England. He
remembered well the words of Mr. Huskisson, when
speaking of reciprocity. He said that so long as foreign
articles could be admitted free, so long as taxes
could be reduced, and the Exchequer still remain
in a favourable condition, they might expect that
foreign nations would fellow their policy ; but if
they could not do that—if. whilst they reduced the taxes.
and admitted foreign produce free, the Exchequer be-
came empty—they then might depend upon it foreign
nations would not follow their example. And what had
the Chancellor of the Exchequer to show now ? Nothing
but an empty Exchequer, which required an Income-tax
to restore it ; and would they expect, with that before
them. that other nations would follow their policy, and
would act with them on a system of reciprocity ? He
(Mr. Attwood) did not attribute the present distress to
the condition of the Corn-laws, but he did attribute it in
a great measure to the extraordinary fact that the British
manufactures could' be purchased in China, Bombay,
and in almost every market of the world at as cheap a
rate as at the place where manufactured in England.
This might appear to be an anomaly, but it was a fact.
The condition of the people was such that Parliament
ought, if they could not relieve, to show that they were
determined to apply all the remedies they could to the
evil. It was not in the mouth of the Government to say
they had not caused the evil, and there let it
rest ; but they ought to Join with Parliament,
and :assist it in doing 'all it could to remedy
the sufferings of the . people.—(Hear, hear.) . Par-
liament ought not to separate without some such course
being pursued. He denied that the Corn-laws were the
sole cause of the distress in the country, but the people
ought not to be left in the desperate state in which they
were without inquiry and relief.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was not one of those who
took the most favourable view of the course pursued by
her Majesty's Government; but, although he had no
getfirecriatc),7olitanicheeiornplatlnier councils
sifortiereli or confidence
efofthedist in the
resses of
the country, yet he should not feel justified in taking
so hostile a course as that which had been
adopted by the Hon. Member opposite. That
Hon. Gentleman, after raising their apprehensions for
the tranquillity of the country, had suggested no remedy.
—(Hear, hear.) All that he had done, was to say that
there ought to be inquiry into the cause of the distress.
—(Hear, hear.) Now, in his opinion, to adopt such an
inquiry , would be holding out no reasonable expectation
to the country of any relief.--*(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Gentleman had not even proposed the favourite scheme
of the one-pound notes.—t Hear, and laughter.)
Mr. M. ATTWOOD said that he never proposed any
such scheme,

Lord J: RUSSELL did not say that the Hon: Gentle-
man had proposed such a scheme, hut those with whom
he agreed in opinion had.—(Hear, hear.) As to the
present discussion, there ought certainly some allowance
to be made for her Majesty's Government. They must
allow that they were not responsible for the distress that
existed. They must allow that they felt as much for
their fellow: countrymen, as any other men. They must
allow, also, that no particular scheme would alleviate
their distresses. But having stated this much, he must
state that he entirely disagreed with the course taken
during the present Session. He (Lord J. Russell) believed'
they were mistaken in supposing that the financial deficiency
was the only evil they had to d: a 1 with. The primary evil was
the depressed state of trade, and the financial deficiency was
but a secondary evil. The whole plan of the Government was
framed with the view of making the income equal to the ex-
penditure, and afterwards to relieve trade from its embar-
rassments. In this first object he admitted they were likely to
succeed; but, with respect to the Income-tax, he thought it
was neither justified nor necessary. He thought the spirit that
had been shown by the country to bear that tax, was enough to
convince any one that the spirit of the people was unbroken, and
that they were ready to meet any difficulty. With respect to the
second, the greatest evil they had todeal with was the embarrass-
ment of trade, and the present distressed state of the country. The
Member for Whitehaven, thought they were wrong in adopting
the plan of Mr Huskisson. Ile (Lord John Russell) could
not agree with that because he did not think that the alteration
made with respect to cotton and woollen goods, silks and gloves,
had been any cause of the deficiency of the revenue of the
country, and more than once it had been shown that the con-
sequences of these measures had been to increase the industry
as well as the wealth of the country. Where, however, the case
of the Government failed was that, not agreeing with the prin-
ciple of the Hon. Gentleman, but agreeing with the principle
of Mr. Huskisson, they relied upon certain changes they
had made, but refused to apply the same principles to other and
greater articles.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet,
the Secretary of State for the Home Department, had told the
House that he thought the changes in the tariff would augment
the industry of the country. If that was the case, if the Right
Hon. Gentleman was right in that isupposition even to some
extent, how could it be, he would ask, that measures founded
upon those principles should be correct with respect to oil and
other articles, but that when they came to corn and flour they
were not equally so ?—( Hear, hear.) He considered the admis-
sion of foreign corn was of the greatest importance to this
country. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, when he
(Lord J. Russell) made this observation, observed that he had
proposed an Bs. duty ; that was perfectly true, and it
was his (Lord John Russell's) firm belief, that if, during
the ernbarasssments of last year, they had established
such a duty foreign countries would have sent over large
quantities of corn to this country. He agreed with the Hon.
Gentleman the Member for Montrose that they might consume
a greater quantity of foreign corn than at present without in-
jury to the agriculturists. The pre ent depressed state of the
country was not to be attributed to the want of exports, but
to the fact t hat workmen were paid low wages, while they had
to pay high prices for their food ; but if foreign corn
was admitted, they would get their food cheaper, employ-
ment would be increased, and the country generally benefited.
Great alarm Jiad been created by the anticipated changes in
the tariff; and yet the Government persevered in the measure.
It was found, too, after a shertinterval, that the fears of those
parties to be affected by the tariff had not been realised. He
believed in like manner, that if theywere to effect a material
alteration in the Corn-laws, although apprehensions might at
first be created among the 'agriculturists, those apprehensions
would speed.ly subside ; and that the agriculture of the country
would be placed upon the best and soundestbasis. He did not,
however, mean to say that the Corn laws were the only source
of the national embarrassments. But still those laws had
not
first always
h avp
certainly largely contributed to create those embarrass-
Mr. D'l waeli)
difficulties
the consent of
to the unsatisfactory condition of our commercial treaties.
embarrass-
ments.
aedn tosn. a The
inrm
eHronne.casAilnenmbletrtrifohrutSehdr Shrewsbury (Mr. (0
our
in our power
other nations in any modification of this kind. But it would
tilouitmitprwoayse ttahebetroebast
not be wise, while waiting for such consent, to delay those
ill system which we could improvements in our commercial system
be
our-
selves effect, and to which we would -he only
.parties. He
.
in approve of the principle of re-
taliating on foreign nations their )towards our manu-
factures. He did not think, for instance, that because the
people
French Government had punished their by prohibiting
the importation cf. our linen thread, that the British Govern-
ment
should punish the English
people by prohibiting
i Ile believed, Hear, hear.)
articles of French produce.--k
on the whole, that the Government, while h
sound principles in the formation of the new tariff,tey had adopted
. had
n had not pro-
perly carried out those principle3f 's
an
to
not pursued the
course which would be most beneficial a
the country. Expe-
rienceew Corn-law haul contributed
had proved that the n very
little, if at ail, to au increased importation of corn from ether
countries. Indeed, he feared it might be said that, considering
the present. high price of corn here, b
t. ere had been a lest im-
portation since the new law had comeLnetoopel ation, than there
nad been under the law of 1828.11
trade. felt convinced that, it
they applied to that very great article of
_ ade. and of subsist-
ence, the same principles which badthey. applied to other arti-
cles, and upon which their lessoning had been so just, and
their majorities so triumphant—( Hear, hear)—if they were
to apply the same principles, he felt convinced they would be
making a material, a most useful alteration in their legislation.
He should certainly be ready, if any. one were to propose it,
to give his vote in faveur of an alteration of the present Corn-
laws.—(Hear.) But he must consider that the House had
made up its mind with respect to the plans of the present
Session. The Right Hon. Gentleman who had made the mo-
tion of that night had not inted to ny definite remed for
existing evils ; he had
onlysated io his resolutions that it was
the duty of her Majesty's Ministers to advise the Crown not to
' prorogue Parliament until some remedy was found for the pre-
sent distress. But knowing what the duties of a Government
were, how advisable it was, and Is he (Lord J. Russell)
thought how
deft it was, not to place upon them, without giving
a clear and nite alternative, the whole of the responi nobility
for not finding a remedy for the evils from which the country
suffered, he owned he could not refuse to go into the ordinary
1 e.,
Committee of Supply upon such a motion as that of
the Right Honourable Gentleman.—( Hear.) He believed
that the principles which he had stated on former occasions,
and which he had repeated that night, with respect to the com-
mercial policy of the country, were the principles apoli wilich .

Governmeut must ultimately act. He lamented that the Go.
vernment had postponed the consideration of the remedies for
the existing distosse, but he should leave to them the responsi-
bility of determining the time at which they should propose
the e remedies. He would nut, by any vote for a vague and
indefinite remedy, tend in any way to augment the national em-
barrassment. His vote, however, as he had said before, would
be given for any alteration in the existing Corn-laws. Tint
was a subject upon which he had a clear and definite opinion,
and he should therefore be prepared to give a decided vote upon
it. tie could not, with equal satisfaction to himself, give a
vote in favour of the present motion ; and he should refuse to
concur in any course which wouldset aside the ordinary proceed-
ing by which the Government sought to obtain the supplies
necessary for the service of the year.---( Cheers. )
Sir R. PEEL rose and said, that however various might be
the opinions of gentlemen on different sides of the House with
respect to the commercial policy of the Government, or the
easons which ought to he adopted for the purpose of miti
gating that distress which all admitted to prevail, he still ap-
prehended that no Honourable Gentleman would be
inclined to give his vote without attending to the
proposal to which he was invited to give his assent.
lie should, therefore, call the attention of tke House to the
practical proposition of the Member for Greenock. In much of
the first five resolutions, which spoke of the fortitude with
which the people had borne their sufferings, he entirely agreed.
But the sixth contained the proposal of the Hon. Member, and
it was, that a humble address be presented to her Majesty;
prayirg her Majesty net to prorogue the Parliament till a
searching inquiry had been instituted into the causes of the
present distress. Why, what a shabby way was this of meet-
rug the difficulty ?—( Hear, hear.) They had arrived at the
first of July, and no notice had hitherto been given of such an
intention. If such an inquiry was considered likely to have
useful practical resu'ts. Why was it not proposed at a much
earlier period? By what moils, was it to be instituted? Was
it to he a Committee of Inquiry on evidence given at the bar
of the House into all the complicated causes of the distress of
the country, or was it to he by a Select Committee? Upon all
the practical parts of the question the Hon. Gentleman had
evaded giving any opinion. But he said he knew if the inquiry
could be completed, still there would be no prorogation till
effectual means had been secured for providing for the suste-
nance of the unemployed poor and their destitute families.
Why, what did that mean, but the same thing as the motion of
the Member for Knaresborough ? What Government could give
such an assurance as that it would take means to revive the in-
dustry and commerce of the country. To promise the peopl e
sustenance could not be duneunless they adopted the principle
of the resolution of the Member for •Knaresborough, against
which the Honourable Member for Greenock himself voted.—
( Cheers.) He hoped the House would not sanction such a pro-
position. He believed he had said enough to show that
it would not be wise in the House to evade the pre-
sent difficulty and encourage expectations on the part of
the suffering-people from an inquiry, the result of which could
not be otherwise than deceptive. —( Hear, hear.) Yet he un-
derstood the Hen. Vember for Whitehaven intended to vote for
the motion for inquiry ; he was surprised to hear him state that
intention when, with all his practical knowledge of commercial
affairs, he had sat tranquilly till the first of July, and never
intimated that he had any such intention. He had never even
stated his opinion of the causes of the distress; yet, surely.
those who had been engaged all their lives in commerce were as
competent to form an opinion of it; surely they could not
be simile enough to believe that there existed in cer-
tain official departments a remedy for the disorder that
existed. He was surprised, then, that his refusal to suggest a
remedy should be so intense, when he was just as competent as
her Majesty's Government to form an opinion of the kind of
remedy required.
Mr. W. ATWOOD—I am not " the Doctor."—(Leud
laughter, and cheers from the Opposition.)
Sir it. PEEL—Then the Hon. Gentleman took exactly the
same course lie had cone himself—not being responsible, he
would riot give a remedy; but he (Sir R. Peel)had undertaken
that respensibili'y, and had offered a remedy—( Hear)—all that
the Hon. Gentleman had de is was to attend a consultation of
doctor.;, but he would offer no opinion of his own.—(Cheers.)
He totally dissented from the remedy proposed by the Govern-
ment, but he proposed no other. He said the Government were
wrong in making any relaxations of commerce they heel done—
tid he, then, propose to increase restriction ?—(No, no.) It.
appeared he did not; then what were his opinions on our com-
mercial system ? From the praise he had given the policy of
the United States, he seemed to think we ought to refuse to
purchase any produce of a foreign country which they were able
to raise themselves. But the Hon. Gentleman would find him-
' self defeated by high duties on such productions ; he would
find the revenue diminished, but domestic industry not pro-
tected. Ile had expected to hear him advocate the abolition of
the law which makes paper currency convertible into gold.
He disclaimed the intention of re-issuing the one-pound
notes ; he thought the repeal of the Corn-laws would aggravate
the distress; he apprehended, therefore, that he had no
other remedy to propose, but the resorting to what was called
the " little shilling," the making ninepence or tenpence, pass
for a shilling, or else the relieving the issuers of paper from the
obligation of converting it into gold. But let him get the Com-
mittee of Inquiry ; what was the prospect from it, what time
would be consumed till they could come to the recommendation
of some practical measure ? He now came to the speech of the
Noble Lord, who took an entirely different view of
the subject, and who was prepared to adopt a tore much less
hostile to the Government. Ile said he thought the Govern-
ment had attached too much importance to their financial
difficulties ; but considering that the deficiency hail existed for
five years, and amounted to ten millions, he believed the coun-
try would coins to a different opinion.—( Hear, hear.) He
said the people gave a great indication of their spirit by their
cheerful acquiescence with the Income-tax ; what stronger proof
could a people give of its confidence in a Government? What
must they have thought of the late Government? Was it not
probable that they had come to the conclusion that the time
had at rived when the revenue and the expenditure ought to be
equalized ; that delay and evasion were no longer practicable—
and that some vigorous and decisive measures were necessary ?
There had been a very prevalent impression, upon the proposal
of the Income-tax, that the members of the late Government
intended to give it their support. What circumstances had
induced them to change their view, he of course could not tell,
but that impresion prevailed ; and the very circumstance that
they thoeght it necessary to take time to consider the measure
would naturally lead to the supposition that they thought there
were solid reasons for the proposal. Nor was it the Government
alone who took that view of the matter. Looking at the general
position of this country ; seeing that on the north-west trontier
of India there were hostilities of doubtful issue, whilst on the
other frontier of India, namely China, there was a war, the du-
ration of which it was difficult to forsee ; considering that our
differences with America had continued for several years, and
perceiving that, with respect to that country, an intimate alli-
ance with which hail formed one of our chief hopes, there had
grown up, front some cause or other, feelings of jealousy and
hostility greatly to be deprecated—combining all these consi-
derations together the people came to the opinion that it was
desirable to make a great effort to equalise the revenue and
the expenditure, and the burden should fall upon the property
of the country, and not upon those who were engaged in pro-
ductive industry. Now, with respect to the tariff. The Noble
Lord, by his general admissions, had gone far to show that her
Majesty's Government had pushed the principles upon which
the tariff was founded to as great an extent as was consistent
either with public feeling or due protection to existing inte-
rests. " See," said the Noble Lord, "what you have done;
you have reduced the duty on oil ; you have reduced the duty
on seed, on ore, and on timber ; you have affected a great many
interests. All I complain of is, that you have not carried your
principles much further." Now take the case of cattle. For
a long time the complaint had been that the provision laws im-
Feded the commercial intercourse of this country; but up to
ebruary, 1842, no Government had ever talked about cattle
—( Hear)—the subject was never mentioned. The late Go-
vernment said they would doubtless have made an alteration, for
it was conformable with their principles; but he had never
heard the word mentioned in that House. He proposed duties
which were not objected to on the other side of the House—a
duty of 1/. per head upon cattle, and Id. per pound upon meat.
The Noble Lord said that a great panic had been produced
by the alteration. He said he knew -cases in which farmers
had bought cattle, had fed them, and had afterwards sold them
for a less awn than they cost. This showed that a relaxation of
monopolies was not unattended with practical evils—that they
were often productive of individual injustice. The farmer
who, in consequence of the panic, unwisely, but not unnatu-
rally, parted with his cattle, had a right to complain, per-
haps, of the proposition which he had made. The Noble Lord
said that he (Sir R. Peel) had disregarded the panic, had
braved opposition, and was now rewarded by finding that the
panic was unfounded; but the Noble Lord did not give him
much encouragement to proceed, for he told him that notwith-
standir g the reduction of duties he had done no good. Why,
what was the Noble Lord's argument ? He said, " adopt
the principle of an Bs. duty with respect to cern, and the sane
consequences would follow as in the case of cattle. Why,
what, according to the Noble Lord, would those consequences
be ? That the panic would prove to be groundless, but he
would do no good whatever.—(Hear, hear.) He asked the
House to judge of the position of the Government. One class
of gentlemen declared that all which had been done WRS in

effectual, that nothing would avail but a repeal of the Corn-
laws. The Hon. Gentleman opposite, a man practically ac-
quainted with commerce, said that the Corn-laws were not in
the slightest degree chargeable with the present distress, and
that commercial prosperity had coexisted with them, and that
it would be absurd to expect any relief from their repeal. Ile
implied an opinion, in fact, that all commercial relaxations were
unwise, and that additional protection to domestic produce
ought to be at once afforded. The grand remedy now proposed was
a Committee of Inquiry. Why, what was the practical course
which her Majesty's Government had pursued ? They had re-
duced the duties upon corn by one-half.—( Oh, oh.) At ,
that moment foreign corn was admitted at 93., whereas if the
old law had been in operation the duty would tuve been
235. Bd. They proposed to relieve the country from financial
difficulties, and they staked the existence of the Government
upon the proposal. They proposed to equalise the revenue
and the expenditure by direct taxation. Did they stop there?
Did they appropriate the whole of the proceeds of that taxa-
tion to the payment of the public establishments? On the
contrary, they applied a great part of it to the remission of du-
ties which impeded foreign commercial intercourse, and they
revised, almost without exception, the whole of the commercial
tariff of this country. In proposing, however, the revisal of the
tariff they did not think it desirable to disturb the employment
of capital by too sudden and precipitate changes.—( Hear, hear.)
His firm belief was that they adopt( d the proper course. They
were blamed by some for going too far, they were blamed by
others for not going far enough. He asked the House to esti-
mate all the difficulties with which they had had to contend,
and he could not help thinking that any impartial man would
come to the conclusion, that those difficulties had been fairly
and successfnlly encountered. He now came to the Corn-laws.
This proposal was net a proposal either for the repeal or for a
modification of those laws, and any gentleman who
was in favour of absolute repeal, would be perfectly justi-
fied in resisting a motion for indefinite inquiry. It was
perfectly open to such a person to propose the repeal of
the Corn-laws, but he earnestly hoped that no such propo-
sition would be made. He hoped that a fair trial would be
given to the law as it now stood. He retained the opinion
which he had heretofore expressed on this subject. He did not
believe that any of the proposals which he had heard with re-
spect to the Corn-laws would have the effect of mitigating the
distress under which this country was labouring, and he could
not help thinking that if they adopted any measure of that
kind, which involved the agricultural population of this country
in distress, they would only aggravate privations which the
commercial classes were now enduring. He found that the
commercial prosperity of this Country had been consistent
with the laws which bad till lately been in operation with
respect to the import of corn. It was stated, on the authority
of the Chamber of Commerce of Manchester, that
up to the year 1837, and for many years pre-
ceding, the manufacturers and commercial interests
of this country had been in a state of unexampled
prosperity. He knew it would be said, that, during the four
years preceding 1837, the price of provisions was very low ;
bu: there had been no foreign corn imported during those years,
and consequently there hail been no demand for the maallfac-
tured cottons of this country. The Hon. Member for Stock-
port had said that cotton manufactures in this country required I
no protection, that it was absurd to demand protection far
cotton manufactured in England. That was to say, that not-
withstanding the high price of food in this country, yet
that still we had contrived to outstrip every other corn.
petitor, as regarded the production of cotton. He (Sir
Robert Peel) could not deny that distress existed
in many parts of this country—that it was most grievous the
districts concerned in cotton manufactures. 4..1 wally Other
districts distress and privation were suOsreci, but they -existed
in an especial degree in thnse districts connected with cotton
manufactures. It may be said that a great portion of the mills