The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-20 00:00:00

I
at a much smaller expense in , than they could hope to do re-
land, *here all the machinery of collection wculd have to be
established. But not being able to impose the income-
tax on Jr. land, he had made an additioe to the
stamp duties in th.,t cotietry. bringing them up to the same
amount as that paid in En and.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon,
end Learned Alembei for Bath had proposed that the tax should
be confined to real are! landed property in Ireland, and he had at
the same time told the House Hint that property was for the
geMeet part very much burdened, and that the debts on it were
nerally held by persons in this country. Ile would see, there..
e, that the amount of revenue to be derived from Ireland
would on this account be considerably diminished. The Hen.
I%leitther for Coventry had proposed io extend the income-tax
t° the Government offieere in Ireland, hut. the wording or the
17amendment of the Hon. and Learned Member fur Bath ex-
(,";''lY excluded those persons from the operation of the tax.—
rnHearhear.) The Hoe.. Member for Coventry sheuld also
emher that the officers simploved in Ireland were paid by
ttrelieell:o7el'ra'triu(lnif,itfhaeytahxa,d exempted that country generally from
he thought there would be no justice
e,,,e
neyur in selecting one particular dais. :Ind fixing it on them,
thanl they Were mace obnoxious to the tax or mere helpless
any other class of the community. This was not an
70",11i41 on which he could follow the Honourable Member
%,I:osentry through all the remarks he had made
~.i•ie estimates ; they would shortly come before the House in
ueerni and he should then be prepared to prove to the lion.
eo,,,,enian that they were framed with a due regard to eeo. o( my
tvith a due consideration to the permanent interests
apok eoentry. There were other lion. Gentlemen who had
contiT daring the evenine, who had alluded to various political
ire '
igloos,erwhieh the • thought re, dered it inadvisable to
Pete • 3
be chi income tax on Ireland. Into those considerations
pe,ititoliX think it necessary to enter. Having established the
it arm, eat, as a tax, it would not be productive, he..thought
it. ~,e'sary to enter into any other reasons for not imposing
haed:`olftl these observation he should leave the question in the
f
e lar the Nese, trusting that the House, in the absence o
ii,hrnge portion of the Irish Members, would prove that Eng-
cause" d° not desire to impose burdens on them, but that their
phene:rotild be effectually fought by the English Members
Air iler,lrish interests were concerned.
tarn 11`111E said it apeared to him the debate had taken a
what
the it ()tight not to have done, from an erroneous view of
tee anY. were called on to consider. He thought the income-
it m" °n • but the Right Hon. Baronet stated that
. was t e , as
L° °be a temporary one, he should not wish
I make ;ed. I,
he
alteration in it as regarded Ire •
',tem But he thought the Honourable and L. earned
the in :t for Bath had been misunderstood. He denied that
tinl Me-tax would be an injustice to Ireland, as it would
p,„),' fail on those who scold afford to pay it ; anti it should be hieri,e.ftntbered that Ireland would have a fair share in all the
tteref:ead,cinee from the present remission of taxation. He
lisrt or, thought it would be but fair that she should bear a
them, the burdens which enabled the Government to make
otey ,t-,2he increase in the stamp-duty paid by Ireland was
that `43.°00/. n' a revenue of 454,000/. , derived from
!hlbUricip,„re'• Thi's) was all the equivalent that Ireland paid for
e in,,," cif five millions borne by England. In dwelling on
aapoirniee and hardship that would be done to Ireland by
11101,4,11. R this tax on it, the last speaker had really made a
iteesrh;',„l4 "f, a molehill—and he was really quite surprised to '„sreisi."' Let Ireland if she was to have her share of the
oireetctaxation, bear her fair share of the burdens also.
tstar profPeil'erty had not borne a sufficient portion of that
14 lan • r d paids or the last fifty years the middle and lower classes
4ttleant 4° less than seventy-four per cent. of the :whole
Ist h. I the taxation of the kingdom. England paid the
vern'eause it was imposed by the Government, and the
%? Zeat imposed it w'th very little consideration ; and
cf(Rohet "'cause thole who did• it, and who managed the affairs
I,er it'tutitrY, suffered very little from the impoeition.—
~'flalb.' .;11.•,) However, as thi- proposition of the Hen.
''nelre 'lath 'lath would cause au entire change in the taxaei ,0
-erie.; eau, which would very much benefit the country, the
tek it
t, why wit Made the better.—( Hear, hear.) He would
1 eorit a. sleould not the House call upon Ireland
stvieh 'e her portion to this tax ? The change
lashv, A hadthe her
impositio of it would cause would be
LqPII! not taken place in this country for the last forty
'aele would have the effect of giving employment to thou-
aet iihaed henefit Ireland in theusairways, which he could
littiPtetoiltled,Z.rattbteitoanil. nothing could he more easy. than to bring
*the 'machinery for the collection of the tax in
eald t: tit, if it Should not be imposed, and that other taxes
et tea we remitted in that country, the result would be that
NYtaall Id be im sesed on the bee instead of the honey, and
PI Y the 1 ' I
th, eer Ireland,liv would be destroyed. lie would. tell the
(14'111 v that if they claimed equal rights with Eng-
Za-54,51," '''"old bear an equal share of the public burden,.
stZiltry fair] He sh' euld like to see the property of that.
llithe,aectri?' taxed, if the owners of it claimed equal rights with
terit_a, why
s!_e?ut, if that tax should he imposed, that was no
U411,4,14%1" .h threats, as he h ,(1 heard to-night', of 'murder,
Ir nlve )' and fire• and all that, should be held out.—
t4,144d sliPe,tl , but, petting all this aside. t. e would say that
Its ,ti eed thenn be made to hear a full and fair proportion of the
he /le ) 7° let her call for equal privilege=.--( Hear, and a
Iste',lt The
irlotsme t if extended to Ireland, would not
tli is
he as -tae,
for there were very few
te th,,har,_that country wh,. paid 30(1/. a ear,aml, therefore,
i44'd te 'O7O of the tax would fall on the landlordite,•
ratiircluewmitehs ,
eat tillielei.
fo,:e persons in Irelansi who deliver
at 41 ?'eee, lie would like to know why they should not
Pl'is_" tithel.._•••-( Hear, hear.) For these reasons he would
itttsr tjh teen.
t'td. the le RT PEEL said he felt bound to declare that he
4144 an Member who had just sat down the fullest the, '111),t i,,.. unusual degree of candour.—(Laughter.) It
ssett,' stoeecullertant to the Hon. Member's constituents that te tt,othiehanderstand the consistency, integrity, and good
thee Noe., cheracterised the statement of the Hon. Member
ell thNele-ng for the vote he was about to give upon this ques-
ts 1011, tehwed laughter. ) The Hon. Member had said,, in
„teer's Nte„,a_t if it had not been for the " foolish speech' of ,
'sit 'aoth ."°'-'l' at this aide of the House--( Laughter)—he
to
itiqe.
okt"eqrne to this conclusion.—( Laughter.) So that
i°,l: lil, iPfli;„.the ?louse had to say they felt indebted.
11 het liie- sloe speech—( Laughter)—for the proposition
'''‘‘ tYtt ' Ni"-iernber 01 Hume) to make a total change
le t'llie eat of t •s• r.
•• in this count
ret,,,.) ~ exation now in exercise
Lila fe,,',`en ei."ow, was it ossible that such a change could
ittoe.l-1123.1.:4;:se,e(iinu the sentimentsP of a gentleman who, for the
ti,ttht fed "et ring which he had. s. seat in that House,
let' (e• °hew y measure of a financial nature that had been
la a' k ,---( Heat, hear, and laughter.) But here let
,dtSiqalteittt.feel) say that, during those forty years, he
Ohl '' ette;" the great services that that Hon. Member had
;sdtitsr, itt,'.'rY, although lie had never yet given him a vote.
'lt -iliest
,•',l:s and la ght . However, he should say, he
1it',471:,-teliiits kl,-..seti
jltua,tiegdnutt.h:t reerusdu)lit of the Hon. Member's exer-
perspicuity on this propo.sition,
Sllls I'l set:4aretd that he a ( uld upon this occasion give an
til'et t'irt;---( 'Au )w It should be admitted that, for
'it °-• I 4 Years thet. " Member had paid the closest at-
lartkd t:taatte 'cf.
11,4'41 ee ant's ' finainkcen, anti' always
bopposede whatH he
mcon-
i7:,,,,ithule this
._'!i•Ces-ary expenditutrew,a,
in
consequence of a
,ii,4_eieeh from this
dec.lared thatthe i
li:ilykts..sed
a..M. side of.
R House that he would arto.
',ea, corn-
Stetd tire` less ,e7tlfin, he ( Sir R. Peel) had been
tenf tiew,ost Ne_ ht to say.—( Great laughter.).l_e . tie (Sir 11.
a "!th rink th", what the Hon. . le
.oer would have said
t'ed e wts h e mterest of money, -.nel all that, but he should
titt.tliet(td;,ate t.'llY prepared tee hear that the lion. Member
al,ttli tide einc,,rea"d taxation, because of an lion. Member
tire' lie.4(rete-telan,,, se having' elis ered himself of a_feomolbisehr
eat sand ,idelieer -ghter. ) In reference to the Hon. M 0 llpf, that !,t, ed that s( foolish speech"—(Laughter)—let
teattti 11 lisiat Most heartily congratulated that Hon. Gentle-
", e,),lieuidWaiet felicitous speech—( Laughter )—for he (Sir
to neilt„id eet"),saY that he did think that a higher compli-
k's -,),sYste„,"e Paid any Member of the House than that
11-itt the e‘.o: the taxation rot the country was proposed
lit,,"ter 5 eehoi ,",,e'ause of the delis, ry of that speech.
litt'bee', owe,: 'sense burst into a general and loud fit of
111‘.11,Ne,itlelie4 a 4 much to the humorous tone of the Hon.
,tes,) Ratretied 3ats as to the mock gravity of his manner, while
l' 4tie t n 4 hewed to the Hon. Member for Done-
Ltil) k se• ° he
Done-
•t xli,' the erious, let the House consider what was the
Ito' :14, real, ,speeek of the lion. Member. lie (Sir II t:t,'"at 'all t;' "" admit that justice would require that this
th Rlsllo Ite4l, e extended to Ireland—(‘ Hear, liar )—and in
°I'll:. her V'" this tax was proposed to he imposed upon
tttS,e4'li,l:::t thhe •elaj:t!.t.,3_ ti Govewran'tntif d not decide that i t
4:14
ill ,4
te elthiec‘ite, isutdo irelanf,d), urin(thil they 1 eel maturely
calculation that the
e_ill'Yh‘tilit4t :PtinX the hard Mac ilinertivn fory cthe collection of it
terY, alettieso ecniwarrant such a step._( fleet-, hear.) And
ttel,tek ,itelencid the' the increased spirit duty, anti -stamp-
Iti4i'set i'essild„. would prove more roductive than the pro-
ttlits evtetTraeluci4".ll•—(. Hear, ear.)h Therefore the Go-
kls. ill, ore Irelandat it would be better to require en
Niteft,thet'aesie on account of other taxes than impt,se tweaea he Nntl--t liear, hear. ) Let Hon. Members re-
`s Malta Irel;Peltrisedint;stee of the Crown that he could call to
t, atidsh the
imposition of this tax upon Ireland, not
slattt at heeciald be peculiarly favoured at the expense of
4t,taie Y tetan'e loeal causes and difficulties existed in
141 it i alel'.' eapt_dered the levy of it impo-sible without
tattape„,ate at "ulture greater than the income.—( Hear )
tt , tte the i_
~
(elate s foe" of the • "fineliate effect which weuld arise from
:1‘9,„-• tee ,, e meow-tax and tho reesoyal of other
yt et, 1, it tir.sii,t, mrn
11.0,the4,, limn, ir,lapnadrinfc the lition of Ireland with
0 s_kii4ii,lo,,k
at could not dealt justly with.—
,(,,eoi. h Til 10 fas. By the repea of the cotton
'No
}))'eat,'l,,,,ae n nfaeturer was benefited to the amount
10Stei toots,,( ar whitt,e) in Ireland the duty was no more than
Old'lttee,"n thettr„,"ear• ) Certainly it was to he taken into
st-"e i t‘P"el. -"t of the c,t - d • Ireland id
i''" L'N'ort. 11" he hoped °n
n ' le in
elcotton
ktti r,f t leer ed into," to see tee ..ay when
Viitet he ettP"`l f,), t,"rk, and Ireland would not be depe.n-
-e k " .."1011 d ."e suPply.—( Cheers. ) By the remis-
''l 2,4 o ut'es England would be benefited to the
kkttit I Ir'lstkt?ed 't"h°e°l.'i in Ireland only to I I,8001.—( Hear. )
er lilt 4 () 1 glass duties amounted to 774,0001.;
vr) %With n'Y
to Th
1011 tie ed . ( Hear, hear. ) ese
o,t tpd,rth Prheen h important difference. (Hear,
lc)) se e fel. e could convince the people
11;4,14 L•elie.,,:las'inr_,which animated the Government of
I t at th d that °as it was in Ireland.—( Cheers. )
ek'';'",:')..ttatte4t iou—the.re would be a universal feeling of satis-
Clfs:,!N„7"ter loin"' if thee could see the manufacturers of
toitaile4l"; titZtriee...(fequal competition with the mantrfac-
sr t. let r, he h 'arhear ) Now, it was with great
't ite `-ork eard his el
'4' 'ls ''' In says that • • on. and Learned Friend the
tlit‘tce 't. dire !It w, Ili his country, with the prospect of
te,ttlit;(4 etteß their
had devoted themselves to agitation
et! ,t_ ear , e(eir alt ~ '
pc,ti.ehs.7e,
po . near. )
„cenion to the improvement of their
kft tioll'ig ienton, oi.„ ri: agreed in the general proposition
li,.N, wh,",.teal„,4
t°ne mtnre should be placed upon an
Loan tri. h
the'
„taxation, but that was not the pro-
f,' eel Gls, t "ciuse was now called upon to
Os t4t it trad, Britain, landoffices, profes-
'le st 'sae !, were • ' •
eelletty Z. •ph• !lee ~rn_, , . subject to the income-
It. sr r taest
_,Ji wes'llo,P'-ed tt) subject in Ireland land only
telie,,,,i esid,dat.fee,(„d i r. equality. But in feet land was the
.1' 4' 4 • 4 t n Ireland 1) th
!ifR g et, 4 14(14 elr„
hi y e. tax, for if the lauds
Itee h.: erm. cen,.nt
t., was subject to the tax, which
'l4shea7;eetie
()To ef the ' T to reside in Ireland. After
eti•Nli; tr)
r, I eoile.....nrestion the difficulties of construct-
tinst k, ic,1R1,,,%1, the tax, and the different condition
tlfq ellPtieloollii ax'
~1.15 respect to wealth, induced him--
ittitletet,'Ree h 100•-...( Hear y temporary—to adhere to his
eti,pl, 4,1).,011;11 ,ithpaving
hear.) The Hon. Member for
to.' ,'051,11, sde „..,
_flaying cheered the lion and Learned
ttesidhooe ' tte ttnin",n he said the imposition•of the tax on
11.,Ilemtstien,°41,1 h `•,,. The word he cheered was "im 0-
11,t,
date
ittah.t:
et I,2,,thiii
I.' ih:sueBe,
tetl",t,v7o,erretghdear.t de.
notuutnhe:
y.hm:
suo,
heln question. tt political
hh. s 4 dirt Je5 open., . eendition of Ireland and the pros-
tt lei it ~_ Itter 'tt POlitieal • the minds of
kt 'try ',tilde
bestsere or agitation to their own into-
Ile teißhatlea 1
wi t the p„ple_
(Hear, hear )—he
Itij IN t lie ''etsge of " f"r the House to relinquish the
'stet l'e , 'erie eine or tte-
.,L
~t ti.. 1 404 ed f„,rn
ti.
.0 hundred thousand pounds,
twis7e",,ih,e, ~r , i and that th' income-tax, and to convinces
ti l etrisli nue e3' were disposed to take an in-
-4 Y tot 0 '"t• 4 'este, and WI I
t,mt geld , erhi it
~ ee 3,ears
_. 0 ust they were willing to
Cele,. 1th,,4 00 e„,,,_ ter th.fir.-,r. n themselves, they were riot
elk. et to
we w_tr:tiipel,,,e,, , 1 rime to Ireland. i oneht
. vr„,ft.
e,14,
tsh
and
41_,,etk:
.tl.lle reciproeel feeling of a
4t4.4tir,.
~?1,,, et,. \ ey wereed.i•sis,iosnesd, and inferior positine in
to regae d with kind feel-
'l•l'elr 'ttk't4ll4 1111E1p
)stia foe he 1-1011 HY said
1,, k, kd. ,t} St g,c, I. , that he had no apire-
qtPit4" h leti‘n I'
who t.lng to the proposition ofi the
It tat shed he he iis, ''' brilliant
teoxelai i.buitteirlotf,Atiatil:nute alensd.
el''''eh:tlrnhhPa'.ll4thneed 'est(' With
e latti,ts.:.,e/ir.)ig tooli hg ostTer wshideeosfPe thee"
etsiits". ere::: for I)"flag__nr_i.6cent answer of his Hort.
Hmouusste._be
e would, however, reati for them

an extract from a speech which must have gratified the Right
Hon. Baronet, if it did not gratify all those around him.— ( A
laegh. ) [The Hon. Gentleman then read, amidst much
cheering and laughter, an extract from the speech of Colonel
Conoily.] A passage in that speech reminded him of the
strange asseciatioe of bed-fellows—(Great laughter )—and of
lively crawlers.—( Great laughter.) i!e could not help
thinking that the honourable and Learned Member falsified
an old statement,
" Who drives fat oxen should himself he fat."
—(l,aueliter. ) The Hon. and Learned Member (Mr. Roe-
buck) was perfectly justified in complaining of the absence of
Irish Members, but he ( Sergeant Murphy', could riot agree in
the reasons which he gave for that absence. He wished the
Hon. and Learned Gen leman had been more guarded in his.
tone and language. True it was, the Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber excluded from his censure he Hon. and Learned Member
tor Cork, but there was one Hon. Member to wham pointed
allusien was made. Now every Hon. Member present must
recollect the course lett ly adopted by Mr. Smith O'Brien, and
the admirahle speech he made on the subject of the ge-
neral state of Ireland—a speech which elicited universal
approbation, and had raised the Hon. Member to the highest
rank of argumentative orator s in that House.—( Hear. hear. )
He had no doubt the observations of the Hon. and Learned
Member would be echoed back from Ireland, not, as ebserva-
titans coming from Protestants or Orangemen, but from a gen-
tleman whose career might be said, in some degree, to be that
of the Irish people. He regretted, too, that when the [lnn.
and Learned Member talked of conciliation to America, he did
not recollect that it was so near akin to Canada. He was,
the; clore, extremely sorry when he heard him make his state-
ment. With regard to the motion of his Honourable
and Learned Friend, what was his object? He called apon
them to tax realised property in Ireland. But vrhe,.e
was he to find it ? Where would he find a landlord who was
not struggling with mortgages? Ireland had been labouring
under many ills; it had been pictured by the Hon. and Learned
Member as a poor, impoverished country, and yet he proposed
to burden it with an income-tax. The resources of Ireland
were not yet able to relieve the people from their sufferings,
and any change in their condition, it was too well known, would
be derived, not from the imposition of an income-tax, but by
the introduction of real and substantial capital front this
country. He asked his Hon. and Learned Frisnd, then, if his
motion was politic at the present moment? His Hon. and
Learned Friend hail declared that rio increase ought to be
made to the number of Irish Members, because those the
people did possess were absent from their posts. His best
answer to that argument was, that he was there to fulfil the
duties of a representative. He would not enter further into the
measure, but conclude with a simple protest against the im.
policy of bringing forward such a motion.—( Cheers. )
Colonel RA WDON denied that any Irish Member, in voting
on that occasion, would he actuated by any motives of selfish-
ness, nor del he believe Hon. Gentlemen opposite would
support tke motion upon the selfish principle that it would re-
lieve them from some portion of the burden imposed by the
incorrie-tax.—( Hear, hear.) He thought it was exceedingly
unwise to introduce the income-tax into Ireland in the first
moments of her prosperity. It would press severely upon
small tradesmen and merchants, and might revive that distress
which his Hon. and Learned Friend, the Member for Dun-
gareon, had sanguinely hoped was hourly being banished
from this hitherto unfortunate country. He hoped
he should not be felt to be intruding on the House,
but he could not but feel a great objection to this tax, and that
it was consequently his duty to his constituents to bring before
the House one instance from history, which was of remarkable
significance at the present moment to the country. He
alluded to the conduct of this country towards America, and
begged to call the attention of Gentlemen of that House to the
consequences of that conduct, before they gave their votes for
the amendment of the Hon. Member for Bath. It was sup-
posed by the country Gentlemen who sere Members of that
House, in the middle of last l'eollry, that if they could impose
taxes on America that their own burdens would-be diminished.
The necessary means were taken to impose those burdens, and
what was the consequence? A few short words were contained
in the speech from the Throne, and in 1764 certain stamp
duties were imposed on the North American Colonies. The
consequences very soon appeared. In 1765 a few more words
were contained in the royal speech-6 The attention of Parlia-
ment was di:ected to matters of importance having reference
to America; disturbances had arisen there." The country
gentlemen:were astonished. They stood aghast. They evidently
saw that they were in the wrong. They saw then, as we
may see now, that such conduct was unworthy of us. Ile
trusted that there would be no repetition of this conduct to-
wards America. The motion before the House on this ques-
tion was a most important one, and if the principle which had
been used towards America were to he applied in this case tic
Iceland, he felt assured that it would render the Government
of that country most difficult, if not altogether impossible, and
the success of this motion would at once bring on that diffi-
culty. They might defer the day of separation, but that sepa-
ration was inevitable. They 'might adjourn it for a season,
perhaps to a distant season, but to adjourn it for ever was im-
possible.
Mr. CURTEIS would make but a few observations in oppo-
sing the proposition of the Lion. Member for Bath As a mem-
ber of the Commission for the property and income-tax, he
felt that it was a tax which materially effected the manufac-
turing and commercial interests of the country. but much more
so the landed interests, and his experience on that Commission
led him to oppose the extension of this tax to Ireland, a country
which materially depended on the produce of its land.--( Hear,
hear. ) If the gentlemen who were connected with
the landed interests of the country did not stand
against this tax—for, to the tax altogether, he was
opposed—he would ask them how their constituents would feel
satisfied with their conduct ? He considered himself called upon,
by his duty to those who sent him there, to oppose this tax in
every way. He could not see how the lower classes in Ireland
could be benefited by the extension of this tax to that country.
For if the gentlemen of lauded interest were to be saddled with
this tax, it would be impossible for them to apply the means
they possessed for the improvement of their estates; whereas,
if left free to make such application of their means, it would
be doing much more good to the country than any that could
possibly arise from the imposition of a property and income-
tax. He believed that the major part of the landed interest—
he would not say the whole of the landed interest, but the
major part of those who formed it—were opposed to the tax.
They complained, and justly complained, that the Right Hon.
Baronet the First Lord of the Treasury had given them no
relief, while he left the whole burden of this tax upon their
shoulders. He must he considered disinterested in this
matter, for he came forward unsupported by any great
section on either side of the House ; and he did
not rely on the votes of Hon. Members on the benches below
him; but notwithstanding this, much as he disliked tm*:.:ing
the House to trouble, he should feel it his duty •
wk(n the main question of the continuane:
or tgo`tlisvoitdienoi_t
before it. One eon-
speeches of the property and income-tax_
solation he had, that he fe"
...ay relied on the support of the
speeches of those me-...oers for Ireland who might be present,
'.:eat their votes would be given in his favour, and
athnedyhtrehoped
...grit possibly get rid of the nuisance of this odious tax
-iiogether. At all events, he should feel it his duty to take
the sense of tke House, whenever the main question was brought
before it.

Mr. BLACKSTONE would not occupy much of the time
of the House at that late hour of the night; but be was com-
pelled to say a few words before he gave his vote on the motion
of the Hon. Member for Bath. Whatever might be said re-
specting the property and income- tax by the Right Hon. Baro-
net at the head of the Government, it was plain to him that it
was intended to be a permanent tax, and he could not feel it
right that a permanent tax of this kind should be imposed en
England, Scotland, and Wales, without including Ireland also.
He well remembered a letter, addressed by the Hon. Member
for North Essex to the Right Hon. Baronet, when in the
Opposition in 1838, when the Right Hen. Baronet had stated
in reply, when an attempt was made to rep,al the malt-tax, and
during a debate in that House—that it was his opinion that it
could not be disguised that if they (the landed interest) ob-
tained a repeal of the malt-tax, that it must be at the expense
of the imposition of a property-tax ; and he warned themaf
the result which would in that case most certainly ensue. Oa
that occasion the Irish Members gave their votes against the
repeal of the malt-tax. He hoped the Right Hon. Baronet
would at once assent to the preposition of the Hon. Member
for Bath, in order to deal fairly with all her Majesty's subjects.
Mr. WALLACE said that no man in that House had ex-
pressed a more decided or strong opinion against a property-
tax er an income-tax than he had done. He had expressed
that opinion at the time the tax was imposed at great length.
He stated then that he had seen such scenes of degradation,
that nothing would induce him to give his support to an income
or a property-tax. Things, however, had now altered; the
distinction seemed now to be well understo srl between a pro-
perty and an income-tax. lie had now no objection to a pre-
perty-tax—indeed, he thought it a just one—but he objected
strongly to an income-tax. With respect to the motion of his
Hon. and Learned Friend, the Member for Bath, he should
freely and fairly give his vote against it—( Hear, hear)—and
on that vote he had very little doubt he should be supported by
his constituents.—( Hear, hear.) If, however, they disap-
proved of the course he had pursued, he should directly say to
them, " Your representation is in yourselves—find a better
man, if you think fit—l am your servant, but if you think I
have not served you faithfully, by all means choose another for
yourselves." He should vote without hesitation against the
proposal of the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath.
Colonel SIBTHORP thought it to be his duty to support
the motion of the lion. Member for Bath.—.(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) He should also vote against the continuance of the
income and property-tax until he was told byflie-Right lion.
Baronet at the head of the Government that it was not his
intention to prolong its continuance beyond three years.--
( Hear, hear.) If the tax was to be inflicted on the people of
England and Scotland. why, he would ask, was Ireland to be
exempted ? He considered that he did his duty to England,
Scotland, and Ireland, in voting for the motion of the Hon.
Member for Bath.—(Cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON said that whatever the result of the
motion of the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath might be,
he certainly would have the satisfaction of having performed
that evening an unexampled thing--(Laughter)—for he had
obtained the support of Hon. Members who, on most subjects,
were directly opposed to him, and whose opinions were gene-
rally as wide from those entertained by the Hon. and Learned
Member as the poles were asunder. He had been supported by
the Members for Birmingham, Lincoln, Essex, and other places.
—( Hear.) lie was not sorry the Hon. and Learned Member
had made the motion, because he thought the result would
show the people of Ireland, that there was a majority of that
House, who entertained a kind and considerate feeling to-
wards Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He was not sorry the motion
had been made, but he regretted the manner in which the
Hon. and Learned Member had couched his speech.—(Hear,
hear.) He thought there were portions of that speech with
regard to Ireland, and Irish Members in that House, in
which he had expressed himself in language which he (Lord
Palmerston) could not but think the Hon. and Learned
Member would, on mature and cool consideration, be disposed
not wholly to approve, and which, if any other Member had
made use of, he would have been the first to condemn.--
(Hear, hear.) He (Lord Palmerston) did not lay much stress
on the argument that they ought not to subject Ireland to
the tax on account of the agitation that existed in the country
—( Hear, hear)—he thought the fact of agitation existing in
Ireland, if it was not founded on proper grounds, was no reason
why the tax should not be applied to Ireland—(Hear, hear)
—if, otherwise, it was just and expedient—( Hear.) He could
'not shut his eyes to the fact, that the Irish
people considered that they had been long labouring under a
heavy grievance, of which they thought they had a right to
complain.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman
had not been consistent in arguing the grounds on which his
motion was proposed. He contended that they ought to lay
equal taxes on Ireland, England, and Scotland, while he him-
self proposed to apply one portion only to Ireland, and there-
fore, instead of producing equality, he carried out that ine•
quality of which he complained to a further degree. If the
tax was to be imposed on Ireland, he (Lord Palmerston) saw
no reason why it shoubinot he imposed in the same manner as
it was done in England. If there was ground for extending
the tax to Ireland, let them extend it in an efficient manner.
He, however, thought it would be impolitic to extend it to
Ireland, as it would not produce the s -venue that was ex-
pected. They might gain some little more revenue bv makiug
the tax apply to Ireland, but he thought the imposition of it.-
worth! show that a narrow view indeed had been taken of the
subject. If they employed all the means in their power.to put in
force the resources of the country, they would greatly increase
the prosperity of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Ireland contributed
far less to the recourses of the empire than, from her population
and capabdities, might be expected. Capital was lowing into
it, and railways were extending, and he trusted that the
country would stand in a different position from that in which
it had hitherto done in relation to the United Kingdom, and that
she would be able to give that contribution to the revenues of