The Sun.
London, England, 1842-05-05 00:00:00

IMPEhIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 4.
The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four o'Clock.
NOTTINGHAM ELECTION.
Mr. HAYTER, the Chairman of the Committee appointed
to try the merits of the late Nottioglaana Election, brought up
their Report, declaring the sitting Members, Sir J. C. Hob-
house and Sir G. De Larpent duly elected.
NEWCASTLE AND DARLINGTON RAILWAY.
Mr. H. HINDE moved the third reading of the Northern
Union (Newcastle and Darlington Junction) Railway Bill.
Mr. FIELDEN moved, pursuant to notice, that clause 333,
which proposed to give powers to eight different Railway Com-
panies to do that which was not authorised by their respective
Acts of incorporation, and for which powers they had not ap-
plied to Parliament, should be expunged from the Bill.
Mr. S. CRA WFORD seconded the amendment.
Mr. H. HINDE opposed it, and said that if the Hon. Mem-
ber for Oldham succeeded in causing the clause to be expunged
it would seriously affect the interests of a Company to which
that Hon. Member himself belonged.
Mr. BROTHERTON said that, though he thought the
measure was one of public utility, it involved a very important
principle, and one which be thought the House ought to be
guarded in adopting. He should therefore like to see the
wards proposed inserted in the clause.
Mr. LIDDDELL said, that as the Bill had received the full
consideration of the Committee, he hoped the House would
not interpose any difficulty in the progress of the Bill.
Mr. HUME asked if the meetings of the different Railroad
Companies concerned had been regularly called, after due no-
tice had been given.
Mr. H. HINDE begged to assure the Hon. Member that
such had been the case.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared—
For the clause
Against it
Majority against expunging the clause —lO5
THETFORD ELECTION. _ _

Mr. PAK[NGTON, as Chairman of the Select Committee
appointed to try the merits of the petition complaining of an
undue return for the borough of Thetford, reported to the
House that the Right Hon. Henry Fi,zroy, commonly called
Earl of Euston, was not duly elected. and ought not to be re-
turned for that borough, and that Sir James Flower, Bart., was
duly elected, and ought to have been returned.
DOWNPATRICK ELECTION.

The SPEAKER announced to the House that he had re-
ceived a communication from the agent of the petitioner com-
plaining of an undue return for the borough of Downpatrick,
stating that the petition in that case would not oe proceeded
with.
HARWICH AND WORCESTER ELECTIONS.
The SPEAKER made similar announcements relative to
the petitions respectively against the returns for those boroughs.
KINCS'I ON ROAD BILL.
On the motion of Mr. BAILLIE, this Bill was read a third
time and passed.
Mr. SHIEL gave notice that to-morrow he should put
certain questions to the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland,
respecting the case of Mr. Biddulph.
On the motion of Mr. PAKINGTON, it was ordered that
John Thurston should be discharged from her Majesty's gaol
of Newgate.

PETTY SESSIONS BILL.

Mr. BANKES moved the second reading of the Petty
Sessions Bill. The Hon. Member said that one of the evils,
which he designed to remedy by this Bill, was the demoralisa-
tion which resulted from the manner in which at present
prisoners of all classes were mingled whilst remaining in gaol.
Another evil, which he proposed to remedy, was the incon-
venience occasioned to witnesses by having to attend the ses"
sions before the time of the trial, on which they had to give
evidence. There was a great inceavenience to jurors as well
as witnesses. He had repeatedly had his attention drawn to
the evils of the present state of things, from officiating as
Chairman of Quarter Sessions. There was another point,
which was of less importance than the others, that
was the expense. The cost to the county of Dor-
setsl.ire of each prosecution of an individual was 16/.
He telt confident that if his mode were adopted it would con-
fer unspeakable benefit. Seeing the Right Hon. Gentleman,
the Secretary for the Home Department,in his place, he hoped
he should hear his views with respect to this measure.
It it was his pleasure to think favourably of it, he (Mr. Bankes)
wondil be most happy in Committee to adopt any suggestion
which the Right Hon. Gentleman, or any other Hon. Member,
:might be pleased to submit. The Bill, as it was, was
short, but he had no objection to see it still shorter, or to make
any additions to it which any Hon. Gentleman might suggest,
if it was not incompatible with the principles of the Bill. He
was not wedded to the Bill in its present form, but to the prin-
ciples. He knew that when the Bill came to another place, he
should receive much assistance, which he trusted would render
the Bill more perfect. He begged leave to move the second
reading of the Bill.
Sir J. GRAHAM could assure the Hon. Gentleman who
had just sat down that he had listened with the greatest possible
respect to what had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman. He
was disposed to view this measure with a prejudice in
its favour ; but from the consideration he had given
-the subject it had lei him to the conclusion that
it was his duty on principle to oppose the measure.
The great objection he entertained to the Bill was, that it in-
troduced a new principle, it made the jurisdiction of the
Magistrates not dependent on the Ministry, but solely at the
will of the party accused, because it would allow him to plead
guilty in the hope of escaping severe penalties. He doubted
greatly whether the object his Friend had in view, that of
saving expense to counties, would be effected by the Bill.
Mr. TATTON EGERTON objected to the Bill, on
the ground that it extended the evil which was proved
before the Committee on the Glasgow Police Bill, to
prevail to a great extent. For instance, is Glasgow, it fre-
quently happened that a man, being taken before one of the
lour Justice Courts of the City, escaped with a very light pun-
ishment, by pleading guilty for the first time. and then going into .
each of the other districts in succession escaped each in the same
evay. Whilst he made this objection to the Bill, he must say
that something ought to be done to lessen the very heavy ex-
penses to which the counties were put, and which were fear-
folly increasing.
11r. BANKES said that after what he had heard, he would t
net be successful were he to press the second reading of the
Bill, but he would bring it forward on a future occasion, if he
had the honour of a seat in that House.
The Bill was then withdrawn.
CHURCH PATRONAGE (SCOTLAND \ BILL.
On the Order of the Day for the second reading of this Biil
being read,
Sir J. GRAHAM said the House would remember, that
'when the Hon. Member for Argyle moved for leave to bring in
the Bill which now stood for a second reading en the Order-
liook, he (Sir J. Graham) stated, on the part of her Ma-
jesty's Government, that he thought, on account of the divi-
sion which unhappily prevailed in the Church of Scotland, it '
would be useless to bring in a Bill on the subject. It
was needless for him to repeat what he then stated
respecting the usefulness of that national establishment, and
that he regretted every effort made to arrest the progress
of the division, which prevailed was ineffectual. It was his
.duty on that occasion to state, on the part of her Majesty's Go-
wernment, that at that moment he had no reason to expect that
same Leg.slative measure, consistently with what appeared to
elsem to be soend principles, would receive so much acceptance
in Scotland as would justify them in bringing in a measure on the
subject. This had not been overlooked by her Majesty's present
advisers. Before they had been called to the Councils of their
Sovereign an effort had been made by one of the principal
members of the present Administration to contribute
to the 'settlement of that question. He had not
been supported by her Majesty's late Ministers, and
as at that time he had reason to apprehend that there was
ino such prospect of success as would justify him in pressing
/'orward the measure, and that it would not be received in the
manner in which it was hoped it would have been, the
Astasure was withdrawn. Her Majesty's present servants,
immediately after their accession to office, had directed
their attention to the subject as one of great and
paramount importance. They had endeavoured to ascertain
if, on the principles on which alone they could consent to bring
forward any measure, such a measure would be accepted by
even the least violent of the contending parties in Scotland.
They had, however, seen nothing to justify the expectation
that any measure which they could bring forward, as a measure
to restore peace and harmony between the contending parties,
would be so received by the country. They had indulged in a
.hope that such might have been the case, but the result was
;not such as to justify such a hope. So matters had stood
suntil his Honourable Friend, the Member for Argyleshire,
Shad brought in the Bill which was now before the House.
sine, that period, the Government had entered into communi-
cation with various parties in Scotland, whose opinions were
'entitled to the highest respect, and who were connected with
the popular party in the Church, and the result of the commu •
lineations which had reached her Majesty's Government led
them to believe that an opportunity for the settlement
of this question was now afforded them, from the
-temper of all parties concerned, such as at no former
:period had manifested itself. Of that opportunity he was most
anxious to avail himself, and in consequence of Chose commu-
nications he had to state to his Hon. Friend, and 110 the House,
that her Majesty's Government had reserved the discussion of
efteis question with the parties principally interested; and without
*expressing himself so as to induce the House to in tdulge in too
sanguine expectations on this subject, he felt bound to declare
that he did -not despair of the result of those con munications
leading him to a favourable issue. If legislative measures
could restore harmony and peace to the Church of Scotland.
the means must be introduced upon the res?onsibilitv of
the Executive Government. The principles upon which
alone the Government could introduce a measure for
the settlement of this question were, first, to de-
tend the civil rights of the patrons, with regard
to presentation ; secondly, to defend what he considered to be
ti e indisputable rights of the people to make of 'jections to such
presentation ; and thirdly, to maintain the righ is of the Spiri-
t ela Courts to decide on those:objections. Thee were the prin-
k., pies on which alone the Government could c( wisent to pro-
p, se any measure for the settlement of tl cis question.
He' had reason to believe that consistently with th, 'so principles
a settlement could be obtained. He did not ask the Hon.
Ge,scleman for any indefinite postponement of h us measure ;
but -.under the circumstances that he had state d, with refe-
rence to the hope of the settlement of the qaestion
which oivided the Church of Scotland, and which
now s;'iook the peace and prosperity of that country, he
asked him to consent to a postponement fi it a short
period, and if within that period a measure for the complete
arran4 extent and satisfaction of the question was ,n( it introduced
by the Government, the Hon. Gentleman was .quite open to
prceeed si-ith his Bill.
Mr. CAMPBELL said, he need hardly state to the House,
that if it lied not been for what had been just statt xi Oct the part
of the Government, he would not think of postponing his Bill.
—( Hear.) But when the Government told him th at I
hey now
had a measutre to propose, he thought he would test consult
the interest of the country in giving way till he saw wt at that
measure was- He would not withdraw his measure, but . simply
postpone it. He reserved to himself the right of disci issing
that measure, and if it were a measure which the Chum ch of
Scotland ought not to accept, he would oppose it. With that
understanding he had no hesitation in postponing the set and
reading of she Bill for six weeks.
Mr. FOX MAULE would make a few observations on Ws sat
hadl falefia from the Becht Hon. Gentleman end the Host. Get
t
eman who had introduced this Bill, and had made it tb e pro.
perry of the House.
ifeatwas never more surprised his
life, at any course than
man who introducer! this measure
that taken by the Hon. (
explanation which had been and more especially at ter the.
H.nne Department of the nat given
by the Secretary ft
me nt had at last made upr the
theirureof the measure which (le 'Vern-
nearly as h, could gather fromminds to introduce. F or as
the words of the 1
Honourable Baronet, the measure tight
enent had been terrified—( Hear,sure which the Got ern-
was nothing more or less than the measure /—into adop ting
upon which the opinion of the people ande Lord Aber&
ex res
Scotland had been unequivocally of the Church of
F. Maule) had asked the Right Hosp. Gentleman 'Whi he (it. Ir.
of her Majesty's Government whether it wtase'rn lat tilt' 1". ad
bring forwasd anymeasuen, measure upon the subject's intent lon
answer which left it open to him to pursue any'co he
gI
But when .his Hon. Friend the Member for Elginurse he p. leased.
see. an
Hay), submitted his proposal, which brought (Sir A. L.
(justice:l of the present state of the ethhe whole
of
Scotlaud before the House, the Government state hd
dis-
tinctly that they were not prepared to bring in any
xneasare themselves. They did more than that ; for in at isomer
to a charge made against them for not introducing a met sure,
lig bulled round and asked him (Mr, F. Mauls) are; the