The Sun.
London, England, 1842-05-25 00:00:00

GILBERT UNIONS.

Mr. COLVILLE gave notice that in Committee on
he Poor-law Act he should move the addition of a clause
o the effect that the Gilbert Unions should continue for
,wo years after the passing of that Act.
Mr. MAURICE J. O'CONNELL wished to know

from the Neble Lord the Secretary for Ireland; whether
it was the intention of her Majesty'sl Government to
bring in a Bill in the course of the:pregent'Session with
regard to the medical charities of that country...
Lord ELIOT was sorry that he was not able to give
a positive answer to the question of the Hon.• Gentle-
man. His (Lord Eliot's) opinion was that a Bill
on that subject was very much wanted.—(Hear,
hear.) Acting on that opinion, he had • re-
quested the YoUr-law Commissioners to frame a
Bill in accordance with the suggestions contained in
their Report of last year. When that Report was
framed, he found that there were considerable objections
urged against it by members of the medical profession.
He was most anxious that that Bill should be.
passed without impairing its efficiency, and
he had accordingly - been in - communication with
those gentlemen on the - subject. Without ex-
pressing any decided opinion, he might venture to ex-
press a hope that all those difficulties would be removed,
and that he would be enabled to lay on the table of the
House, in the course of the present session, a measure

which would be satisfactory to all parties: At the
same time, in the present state of public business.
it was impossible for him to say when they could proceed
with a discussion on the subject.
SUGAR DUTIES.

Sir R. PEEL having moved the Order of the Day for
going into Committee on the Customs Act,
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the Right Honourable
Gentleman had stated that it was his intention to bring
on the Sugar Duties Bill at as early a period as possible.
As the subject was one of much_ importance, it was but

reasonable that the House should have an opportunity of
fully and fairly discussing it. Ile wished, then, to ask
the Right Hon. Gentleman if it was his intention to
bring on the Sugar Duties Bill in such a manner as to
. .

affold opportunity of discussing it separately from the
rest of the tariff ?

Sir B. PEEL said the Government had thought it right
to place the sugar duties on the tariff in order that the
House might have before it a full view of the proposition
which he meant to make with respect to the import
duties. He thought it would be advantageous, however,
to have a separate discussion on the sugar
duties, .and as it was necessary that he should
fix seine particular day on which the sugar duties
should be discussed without reference to. the tariff, per-
haps the most convenient course would be to give notice
that, on Friday week, he would take a separate vote on
the sugar duties, without reference to the progress which
had been made in the tariff:
CUSTOMS ACTS—TARIFF.

The Order of the Day was read for the House to
go into Committee on the Customs Acts,
•
House in Committee.

Mr. MILES said it was now necessary that he should
enunciate what he had stated .last'night, namely, that
in any proposition which he might bring forward,
he was desirous to study the interest of the consumer.
'He wished to have proposed something like Id. per
pound, which would amount to 9s. 4d, per cwt. for dead
meat. , His proposition was to embrace all cattle
of every description, which would embrace oxen, sheep,
and hogs. As he said before, he would take the
highest deduction that could be made from the gross
weight of the animal, viz. two-fifths of 9s. 4d. which
would leave ss. 511—he would say ss. 6d. His prop•
sition was, therefore, that the beasts imported for
every cwt. of live meat should be charged ss. 6d.
If the Right Honourable Baronet would agree to this
proposition of 9s. 4d., he was perfectly convinced
that the Right Hon. Baronet would find that it would
not only remove the feeling prevalent amongst the agri-
cultural classes, but that it would only be doing justice
between them and the consumer. After the kindness
andpatieuce with which he had been heard last night, he
would merely state his. proposition,, and he hoped the
Committee would adopt it.
Sir R. PEEL said he derived this consolation from •
the speech of his Hon. Friend, that if he was prepared to
adopt his suggestions all alarm which had been felt by
the agriculturists would be done away with—that was to
say, if he (Sir R. Peel) raised the duty on French meat
from Bs. to 9's. 4d. would entirely remove the fear of the
agriculturalists so far as meat was concerned. He did
not think that under the arrangements proposed by her
Majesty's Government there was any chance of such a re-
duction in the price of meat as would be injurious to agri-
culture. That %:eus the extreme point to which he could go,
and, therefore, ho could not consent to the proposition
brought. forward by the Hon. Gentleman. with re-
spect, to the lean cattle, he thought.the admission of lean
ersttle was a positive advantage. As far as lean cattle
went, he thought It. was amply sufficient, and he thought
the 'agricultural interest would have 'a right to complain
if he threw any thing further in the way of the importa-
tion of lean cattle. With respect to the fat beasts, it was
not the duty, but the difficulty of bringing them to this
country, that was the real objection. He thought
the proposition he had made was a very fair
and proper one ; and he trusted, therefore, that the
House would think he would adopt a wise course, if he per-
sisted in his phiposition with respect to fat and lean cattle.
Mr. PUSEY thought the present subject was one that
would be fair matter of investigation before a Select
Committee. Before five days had elapsed he would ven-
ture to say he would be ready to name such a Com-
mittee ; and he trusted that he would be enabled to make
out before them a strong case for a further protection
than was proposed by the Government in favour of the
English grazier. He hoped
.that the Right Honourable
Baronet, when he- considered the magnitude of the
interests which he (Mr. Pusey) and his Hon. Friends
around him represented, would be ready to accede to so
fair a proposal, as the appointment of a Select Committee
of Inquiry.
Sir R. PEEL said that it was admitted by his Hon.
Friend the Member for Shropshire himself, that
it was very difficult to determine the exact amount
of protection which should be given upon the diffe-
rent articles of provision, and upon the diffe-
rent kinds of cattle. He did not believe that a
Committee of the most consummate graziers could
come to any definite conclusion upon that subject. It
appeared to him that it was for the House to decide for
itself upon the matter on general principles. If he
yielded to the suggestion of his Hon. Friend; be should
be equally obliged to give way to parties in-
terested in other articles. Why not, for instance,
have a Select • Committee upon the subject of
the proposed reduction of duty on spermaceti oil ?
or upon the subject of the proposed reduction of duty on
seed ? By yielding in the present instance, he should
be involved in endless difficulty and delay ; and he could
not, therefore, accede to the suggestion of his Hon.
Friend.
Mr. PUSSY could not admit the justice of the Right
Hon. Baronet's arguments, because he assumed that his
Honourable Friend and himself were not disposed
to relax the existing tariff ; but he was as
ready to become a reformer in agricultural matters
as the Right Honourable Baronet himself.---(llear,
hear.) He wished to make the new tariff as consistent
as possible; and only desired that it might be ren-
dered 'such as would 'enable the friends of the
agricultural interest to give their assent to it without
abandoning their duty towards those who sent them to
that. House. It did not rest with them to support the
measure, but he did not know how he could look in
the face of the farmers, after supporting a measure which
they believed to be opposed to their interests.
Colonel WOOD said that he represented an agricul-
tural county, and he believed that the alarm which was
raised in the minds of the farmers was unnecessary, and
dying away.—(Cheers.) The last communication he
had from the county he represented was that the last
fair was much improved.—(Hear.) It was delay which
was to be feared ; and he therefore would entreat the
House to come to a determination on the subject as soon
as possible.—(Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend talked of
looking the farmers inthe face ; but he (Colonel Wood)
did not know what that expression meant when
he was conscious of doing his duty.--(Cheers.)
The farmers were not the only persons interested. It
should be recollected that there *ac a large manufactur-
ing population, and what *ere they to think if they were
disputing between Bs. and 95.;4d, °lithe hundred weight ?
They might depend on it they were lending themselves
to unnecessary alarm.—(Cheers,)'' They should not for-
get the good old English agricultural maxim, " Live and
let live."—(Cheers.) As far as the agricultural interest
was concerned, he did not think the alteration would
make the slightest difference to the honest English farmer.
Mr. M. GIBSON said lie hoped that Honourable
Gentlemen would not pursue this system of continually
deluding the farmers, allowing these laws to hang
over' their heads, allowing them to be in constant
jeopardy of having this protection taken from them,
when they must .know that the current of public
opinion was setting against protection, and that
there was a large and powerful party in this
country, daily increasing in numbers and in power,
and assisted by large funds, who were deter-
mined never to rest until they had succeeded in'obtainin,,,*
the. abolition of all unjust restrictions.—(Ministerial
cheers and counter cheers.) He now spoke the plain
truth, and he told Hon. Members opposite that it was a
duty which they owed to their fellow-countrymen not
to gull them any longer. Why, the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman himself said that the small
area from which cattle could be drawn, the difficulties
of importation, and the expense of transport formed the
true protection. Of what use, then, was any duty at all?
He must say that he was surprised that the duties
upon the importation of foreign cattle had not been
made lower than they were. Superfluous protec-
tion had been done away, but a sufficient duty
had been left both upon salt meat and upon
cattle 'to• prevent any._ considerable importation , into
this country. When he heard of the smallness of the
area from which supplies could be drawn, of the
expense of transport, of the increased population—
an increase greater than the increase in the supply,
he could not understand upon what principle the
Right Honourable Baronet defended even a 20s. duty
upon oxen, and an Os. duty upon salt meat.

If the difficulties were so great . already, why not do
their best to admit food and provisions free into
the country ? He should -like to hear how the
Right Hon. - Gentleman ascertained that 20s. ought
to be the duty on an ox, and 8s . on
salted meat. He would not throw any obstacle in the
way of theSe reforms, but he must say that he did not ,
anticipate that trade and manufactures would he revived
by the tariff of the. Right Hon. Baronet. There was as
earnest a desire to obtain a greater measure of commer-
cial freedom, as there was before his tariff was introduced.
Mr. R. PALMER said, if there was anything calcu-
lated to alarm the agricultural interest, it was the speech
of the Hon. Gentleman, and the manner in which it was
received. The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the effects
of the Corn-laW League ; but he was mistaken if
he supposed the agriculturists were to be intimidated in
that manner by threats. With respect to the proposition
of his Hon. Friend, he should support it.
Mr. WARD said that the Hon. Member for Berk-
shire had correctly described this motion. It was
a covert attempt to carry out the motion which
the House had last night rejected by an overwhelming
majority. If there were no parties to this question but
Hon. Gentlemen opposite and their constituents on one
side, and the Government on the other, then a
compromise might be admissible ; but there was
a much larger body more deeply interested in the
question than either of them, and that was the great mass
of the consumers of the country.—(Cheers.) He had
listened with great delight to the speech of the
First• Lord of the Treasury repelling this insidious pro-
position.—(Cheers.) If he (Mr. Ward) had any complaint
to make against the tariff, it was that it did not go far
nough. When Honourable Members spoke of, their
constituents, he thMight they had higher duties
to perform than to attend to the mere local inte-
rests of the different fractions which had sent them
there. They had a duty to perform to the country at
large, and it was their duty to break through the fetters
of local interests.----(Cheers.) He would place himself
at the disposal of Government—(Cheers and laughter)—
on the question of the tariff; whenever the general interest
should be attempted to be neelaalizea by some particular
interest.—(Loud cheers.) If his Hon. Friends near
him should move for :protection to Irish pigs or Scotch
.:!attle' he would 'give them every opposition in his power.
He did not vfish to appeal to the fears of the agricultural
interest; -nor had his Hon. Friend behind meant to do'so,,
and lie did not believe that more alarm could be created
by that speech, than would have been if last year the in-
tention of the Government had been fairly an-
nounced to the country.--(Hear and cheers.) He
considered that what had been done was only valuable
as an approximation towards what ought to be done
—(Cheers.) The tariff was valuable in itself, but he at-
tached much greater value to the speeches of its sup-
porters. If they would read corn fur cattle throughout
the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Vice-Presi-
dent of the Board of Trade last evening, the Right Hon.
Gentleman would be very much puzzled to give anything
like a decent answer to his own argument ; and when
. the Corn-law should next year come under discussion,
that speech, no doubt, would, be referred to.—(Cheers.)
They had tried the :ystem of factitious protection long
enough. They had long tried the system of propping up
one interest at the expense of another. He would give his
support to such part:: of the tariff as he could approve of.
Mr. BUCK said that when the Right Hon. Baronet
' had brought forward his scale of protective duties on
i corn he (Mr. Buck gave it his support, and assigned his
i reasons for so doing ; and when the Right Hon. Baronet
• had brought forward his measure for an Income-tax, from
the clear and lucid statements which the Right Hon.
Gentleman made, he (Mr. Buck) considered it incum-
I bent on him to give his support to that measure, because
it seemed to him necessary to rescue the country from
the difficulties and embarrassments under which it la-

boured, and it was now with extreme regret that he felt
himself...called on to oppose the proposal of the Right
Hon. Baronet. He would not venture to say that he
never knew the alarm so great as it was when the new
tariff was proposed. If that were so, then it would not

bp changed -by either the speech of the Right
Hon. Baronet or that of the Vice-President of the
Board of Trade last night. 'When the- agriculturists
reflected on the immense capabilities of the Continent,
they could not •but feel the greatest alarm. He
sympathised with the labouring population in
the manufacturing districts, but he approved of their
laudable resistance to the Anti-Corn-law League.—
(Laughter.) For they felt that their (the Anti-Corn-
law League's) proceedings would be the means of reducing
their wages still further. The Right Hon. Baronet said
that this measure would reduce the poor-rates through-
out the country. He (Mr. Buck) hoped to God it would,
but he very much doubted it. It was not his intention
now to go further into the present suhject, because he
felt that the speech of his Friend, the Member for So-
merset, was so conclusive on the subject, as to render it
unnecessary fir him to do so. He would however say,
that if a free trade in cattle were agreed to, those who
assented to it would soon have cause to regret it. He
believed that the present proposition was inimical to the
interest he represented, and he should, therefore, oppose
it in every way he was able.
Mr. 0. STANLEY considered, after the division of
last night, it was of no use longer to oppose this part of
the measure. As strong as the agricultural interest with
the country was, it could have no effect against the com-
bined forces of the Right Hon. Gentleman. The Hon.
Member for,Brecon (Colonel Wood) had told them that
the markets, in the county which he represented, had of
late recovered from the, panic created by the.announce-
meat of the tariff ; but he (Mr. 0. Stanley) could testify
that that was not the case in the county with which he
was connected. The depression of prices which had
followed there from the announcement of the Government
measures, would, he believed, continue hereafter.
Colonel WOOD said, that what he had always stated
was, that be should not have supported the Corn-laws,
unless he thought that they were no less beneficial to the
manufacturing than to the agricultural classes, and he
was still ready to adhere to that statement.
Mr. VILLIERS said, that the Hon. Member should
have told the House whether he found any parties to
believe that the Corn-laws were no less beneficial to the
manufacturer than to the agriculturist. The Hon. Gentle-
man had told them that they were legislating for a
class. Had he seen the proposal for reducing the duty
on cattle, supported by those whose incomes were in-
creased by the privations of the people, he should have
observed the same economy of the time of the House,
and not have moved the amendment to the proposition
which he now intended to propose. The full extent of
the privation of the people had not been stated ; it was
not merely a small portion of the people, but millions,
who were deprived of the use of animal food. He had
got a statement of a Commissioner appointed by the
Crown—(Oh, oh)—if Hon. Gentlemen wanted to dine,
he could assure them that it was only what those he al-
luded to wanted to do also. It was the statement of Dr.
Kay, who was sent into Norfolk and Suffolk to inquire,
into the state of the poor. He stated that a man, his
wife, and four children, cost on an average 50/. a year ;
the , wages of the same family, if employed, was
only 35/. a year. If this were correct, the agricultural
labourer of Suffolk was on little better than half diet.
He said the Poor-law Inquiry and successive Parlia-
mentary Committees had shown that the families of the
agricultural labourers had an inadequate supply of
bread. He said that in half a year 63 individuals had
died of starvation, being One in a population of 100,000.
The want of food implied the want of everything else,
and hunger caused more deaths than were registered,
because its effects were chiefly manifested in diseases of.
various kinds. . Such was the aspect of things in this
country. Now, what was the state of the manufactur-
ing districts in Scotland ? It appeared, by a recent ac-
count from the town and county of Stirling, that a man
was detected in stealing potatoes. He was taken by the
policeman; in company with the owner of the potatoes,
to the place where he lived, and it was found that he
had an aged mother ' rind two sisters depending upon
him for support. There was a pot on the tire, and on
the lid being raised it was found to contain a dead dog,
which was boiling for the family.
An HON. MEMBER asked why they bad not applied to
the poor-house ?
Mr. VILLIERS said the circumstance occurred in
Scotland. In that country there were no Boor-laws.—
(Hear, hear.) He believed that the people were much
worse off now than they were four hundred years ago.
In an account, quoted .by WilliaM Cobbett, from For-
tescue, the Chancellor of Henry the Sixth, it was stated
that the people at that time had an abundant supply of
all sorts of _flesh and fish, and that they were well clothed
and well provided with household goods. That was before
the new Poor-law.—(Hear, hear.) lie believed the
people were not nearly so well off now as in any previous
period of our history. To show the state of feeling to-
wards the people in the time of Henry VIII. he would
read to them the preamble of an Act passed in that
reign. After saying, that whereas previously meat had been
sold at a cheap price, so that poor persons might obtain
enough from the proceeds of their labour for them-
selves
and families, it continued that then . mutton,
veal, and pork were sold at so high a rate
that the subjects of this realm could not get enough for
their subsistence ; it provided, then that butchers and
graziers should provide the people with meat and corn at
a cheap rate. In 1666, and this was worthy the atten-
tion of Irish Members who were desirous of upholding
the present system of prohibition in order to raise their
rents, an Act was passed, prohibiting the importation of
all live cattle into England from Ireland, with the idea
that such a' measure would raise the rents in England.
He found, however, one Roger Coke, in 1690, writing
that the effect had been to lower rather than raise the
rents. -See the effect that dear food had upon crime.
From returns he had in his hand of the amount of crimi-
nals imprisoned during the last five years, it appeared
that in 1836, they were 20,000 ; in 1837, 23,000 ;
in 1838, 24,000 •, in 1839,27,000 ; and in 1840, 30,000 ;
and the price of food had been /;radually rising. during
each of those years. Since the yaar 1837 pauperism also
had increased 25 per cent., notwi thst;anding the opera-
tion of the new Poor-law ; and there could be no doubt
that when food was dear, poor. rates were also high.
The Right Hon. Baronet said, wl ten proposing his new
tariff, that the mere rumour of an rilturation had lowered
-the contracts which certain persons had with some unions
20 per cent., and that he (Mr. V.) thought was a proof
that by that means the poor-rates were lowered by re-
duction in the price of food, and tli at they were raised by
a rise in the price of food.—(Criel ; t if " Question, ques-
tion," and " Divide.") He would. not detain the House
long. If Hon. Gentlemen wished .to have their dinner,
he was sorry to keep them, and —he wished that they
would show the same mercy to.thn se whose cause he ad-
vocated.—(Hear, hear,) He said they had not shown
that this alteration would do an y good to the people.
The preSent privations of the poop le showed what thety
had suffered hitherto, and he thou i ht they ought at let ist
to indemnify, them for what.they , had suffered: by midc-
irig a generous and free change in . their system, and do
not let them have anything to do 1 iith the Queen's be gg-
ing letter. He considered that thl Is tax was not for the
good of the country—not for the se, ke of the revenue; but
eelely for the purpose of improvi ing the rents of I and.
Therental of this country was 77,0 30,000 L, and that was
a large margin to operate upon, `,. Ind, considering that

'T;

f

- -
they were assured that the measure would make no.dif"
erence in their rents, but would be made up to them
in
the reaced cost of living, he hoped they would set a good
example, and do justice to the people. lie would nor,
:nove that instead of 20s. the sum of Is. be inscrted.T—
(Cheers, and loud cries of " Divide, divide."). 4
The CHAIRMAN said, that he should put the originall
question first.

- The question was then put, when
Mr. ESCOTT, amidst loud cries of "Divide," said he
should oppose the motion of the Hon. Member near him.
—(Cheers.) He considered the present measure vitts
good in proportion as it'diminished the difficulties villie"
lay in the way of the importation of cattle into the coun-
try.—(Cheers.) He believed the interests of agriculture
would be aided, and not defeated by the present to
or
sure.—(Divide.)
After a few words from Mr. R. YORKE, amidst ltgld
cries of "Divide,"-
.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished to say a few words
before the division. He was certainly not surprised at
the sensation created by the joke of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, which had been intended as a mere pleasantry;
Though the statements were very absurd with regard;
to cattle, they were not more absurd than the statement
made last year with respect to corn. With regard to the,
proposition now before the House, he certainly could flo
vote for the Hon. Gentleman's amendment. He woula
beg leave to call the attention of the Hon. Gentleman toe
statement made by Mr. Meek, with regard to the imPorta:
tion of cattle. He thought that the importation would tea
be very large, but such as it was, it would be forced by the
operation of our other laws relating. to agricultural pro'
auction. Mr. Meek stated that the butter and cheese
imported from Hamburgh, amounted in 1818 to
1,000,0001b5., and in 1836, it increased to 4,000,000 lbsci
That was owing to there being less corn grown, 0,1 ;
more land being- used for pasture than formerly. He
thought that this very clearly showed that the effect of •
the Corn-laws,.a,ssnow proposed to be established,was
induce the persons to apply land to grass, and to loolc
for profit to the exportation of cattle.. Nov he theaglt
'
that the best way to prevent. that from being carried bci
an excess, was to adapt .the. Corn-laws to the cattle dal, •
and to egualize the two—(Hear, hear)—so as not t°
force thdtfarmers to apply theniielves too much to grsi,
ing. As he could not vote for the proposition of Vie
Hon. Member now before the House, so neither could b°,
vote for the proposition,of another Hon. Member, %Ole"
was to be afterwards brought on. He thought the pro'
position of the Government, that the duty uP°"
cattle should be 20s. 'per head a very fair one. •
(Hear.) The duty was not excessive, for it amounted t°
no more than eight per cent, ail valorem ; and therefore;
although he should have preferred a different rate, Yet
he did not like to oppose that which came from the Cled:
vernment, as it was really an improvement on the toll'
There might be many things in the new tariff which 11°'
might with to have been otherwise, but wherever be
found that they were, after all, improvements on the iv!'
sent system, he would not oppose them.—(Hear, heart
Sir R. PEEL said that the course which the. Nob:
Lord intended to follow almost prevented himfrom j',
freshing his memory as to .a certain province in Russn
—(Hear and laughter.) The Noble Lord had areas
them (the Ministers)
,of having raised an alarm respect'
ing the quantity of corn which could be imported fr,,i'°
a single province in Russia. The fact was the late Lor„
vernment sent out a gentleman to collect informatioii°`;
the Continent as to the corn which those countrie"
could supply ; and amongst the Reports there
it as one from an English Consul in Russia, 11.11°
gave the amount of corn which could be ""'
poreded from that country in one week as 38,000,00. ars
Now the Noble Lord who was so anxious to obtain t'
most correct and the fullest information preparaterr ,t 4
an important change in the Corn-laws, caused tbe3o
Report to be printed, without asking a question as
the grounds on which this extraordinary statement No:;
founded.—(Hear, hear.) It passed:altogether unnoties
until he (Sir R.Peel) called attention to it, and suggest
that there must be a mistake in the figures. _That stalee4:
meat had never been questioned ; it hacf been print ...A
and he (Sir R. Peel) was the first person who had 1311;
if there was not some arithmetical error in al
statement. Reference was made to the . oriins
letter, and there, not the figures, but the v/07ii
thirty-eight millions of quarters, were-found vvrit„L
at length in the handwriting of the C0._„175)
I The Noble Lord charged his (Sir R.
side of the House with countenancing the- erilo
The Noble Lord himself was certainly more open t 0 it
charge of making that exaggerated statement, airt°°
was the Noble Lord who had caused that statement
be printed' at the public expense ; and until he (Si ii
Peel) had made inquiries on the suject. had not awe
on the Consul for any explanation.—(Cheers.) the
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and
Committee divided, when there appeared—
For the original motion • 209
For Mr. Villiers' amendment
Majority for the original motion
Major VIVIAN rose to move alit the duty on cattle'
meat, and other provisions mentioned in the tariff,
ported from the Canadas, be equal` to the impart
from other foreign countries. It was well known ttlunt
Canada could export but little of those provisions, are
they obtained their provisions from America. Thew(
were seventy thousand' square miles of fine coonre
in Ohio, with every facility for a large supply
that country ; and, therefore, with a dieeereeoso
duty in favour of the Canadas of 25., the consetli,
would be that the settlers in America would imw°""utd
• turn their attention to producing cattle, and they %cat
have eventually an immense quantity of foreie_r the
sent by the Canadas at a duty of 2s. He truster lie
Right Hon. Baronet would reconsider this matter. ,d,
(Major Vivian) was bound to bring the subject forwlt.
as his constituents were largely interested in the Ins
Sir R. PEEL said that he could not accede to the rot
pok.l of the Hon. and Gallant Member. The P.res.„3
arrangement would be beneficial both to the colonist
to the consumer in this country. alli
Major VIVIAN said that the parties who would 0,0
benefit by the Government proposition would be
Americans, who imported cattle into Canada. 01i°
Mr. C. BULLER said that the route from the
River by Lake Erie into Canada, along the River,. he •
.Lawrenee, with all the rapids, was so circuitous, the,!'llej
thought it was quite clear more would be lost than'ion,
by the difference between. the duties ; he was of
therefore, that the system could not departed frolloil
this instance. He wished to point out to his 11011., of
Gallant Friend, that if there were any apprehensiooo
provisions being brought-in. from Ohio to SidneY• the
that would not give the Canadas any advantage over'
United States.—(Hear.) The difference was only
10s. This kind of smuggling could not be apprebe°;pi
and if it should take place, he did not see
00
particular harm in it ; because if the people 50,0
get food a little cheaper, he did not think ijo
that was a matter calling for the interference of rose
House: If he wanted to find reasons for voting, aglici
any clause in this measure, he should be able to 71,0:
plenty of a theoretical nature for voting against
_lc/
clause. They had now to contend with a great era'ale,
the question of the Canadian timber trade, that had u;tB,4v
an evil of their own fostering. Let them beware 'l,lO
they raised up such another enemy for the future. jj
did not think, however, that any protection that ell
be given could foster a cattle trade in Canada. 11.°,
.wish to go out of his way to find arguments agaill.',",,rd
the tariff. He looked at it as whole, and he consult,'
it was the greatest measure that ever was earrie!o,
favour of free trade. He did not say the greatest
it
sure that had ever been proposed, but, if they got ;of
would be the greatest measure ever carried in fay°,
free trade.—(Cheers.) When he saw the exte""cip'
which Ministers were disposed to carry free trade
ciples, he was almost inclined to forgive their pil-tis
for the manner in which they had, in this tariff; ,""olla
attacked monopoly. He was anxious the taritr
be carried with the gloss of free trade upon it, esti •-•,4'
fore he.was inclined to accept it without looking °V
mirable a gift-horse in the mouth.—(Laughter.)
Viseount HOWICK said that as the amendment
Hon. and Guilt= Officer appeared to be at first siga",::
conformity with the resolutions, which he (Lord •"i:
ick) had submitted to the House, he could nobtoof
against it, as he intended doing, without shortly 001/ 41'
the reasons by which he had been determined tos
that course. It was clear, as had been stated 137,Dsv
Right Hon. Baronet, that it would be impossible .ipe
cattle could be brought from Canada ; and, thereforV
proposition of the Hon. and Gallant Officer mustibe:palii
tory. He (Lord Howick) could not help seeing th t tlO
amendment had been moved, not to carry inteeffeenjel;
principle far which he (Lord Howick) had come
but to allay the unfounded alarms of the gentlerl by
landed property. He did not wish, by any vote oca
to lend any countenance to that alarm. He apprcflid el 4
that part of the tariff relating to cattle, and he ceu'thoiei
vote for an amendment that would be supported Mart"
who opposed it. But though he approved of this thad
the tariff, yet he thought the Right Hon. Bareil,,e 1b
begun his free trade at the wrong end in regard rose'
Interests-of agriculture. The tendency of the irnkr,oe
ments in agriculture was to increase the prodo„e"t the
stock, and diminish the cultivation of corn. Ptirovr
course now taken tended to discourage the
system, and to encourage the mistaken attention Po svitn
the Cultivation of corn. The principle laid dole,
regard to cattle, applied with double force to grat, ;04,
Sir R. PEEL said it was very difficult to forta:tio;
ment as to what the practical effect of these re"lt
would be. It had been asserted that the proteeti°ll;sit
to spring corn was much greater than that gieeclilei
wheat, as spring corn was that most used ilia
cattle ; and the Noble Lord proved that he Etc° nrorj
and for the benefit of agriculture in giving lessrstav4s
tion to spring corn than heretofore. It had bee; 0j0,.0
that there need be no apprehension of the econoinloo
of importing oats in the shape of fat beef, :hos
country that sent them the most fat cattle sent ; f
most oats also. ' ' °
en 9
Lord HOWICK said the Right Hon. (.1 gea,
seemed now to take a pride in having encounliiet',,p,•:‘,
importation of spring corn, because it was aSIA-, 0;14
feeding cattle. But the great mistake lie
milted was this, that he had not consim.; elew of ,
on the same principle as he had consider„ololltili,
The tendency of the system was to discourage tP-„oci
li
tion of the best systems by the agriculturistsiiettte
encourage them to trust to the old system of lintsa'.,
tivation for raising their rents. All these """tie ""ne
however, only. showed how destitute her Maic.s. obr
vernment were of any fixed principles on. Ow bie
No general or fixed principle was adopted. the .14110,3
Sir R. PEEL said he wevery sorry thati:h 00
Lord had so soon repented the compliment vOtio
just paid to the Government.—(Cheers) Vflt if)4oo
just mention, with reference to the Corn-lo";t;qu
week eliding," the 12th of May, 1842, 15,t of "es
of Whe-at had been admitted. at a dut? quiffelat
a,nd that in the following''Weelt,
had been admitted at the same uty. kb tbes.„,,' $0"
showed that reduction might bee xpected froir eX:,
tion in the duty, and that the public could n0,10.1.0t r''
to the inconvenience of a sudden and ex tr'vl
price.—(Hear, hear.) h Rigctig°
Mr. LABOUCHERE said he thought t-kehe okte
Baronet had shown a disposition to eYvide

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sear bin' •
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riculture
eut ri2C a.

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