Star.
London, England, 1830-06-22 00:00:00

ITlit sugar trade was alai at a saes-tali, sad there vas es sad put
to the making of bastards (a cosi* kind of sugar).—(Roan of
laughter.)—lf thee' resolutidiss paled, the right hon. member (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) will have deputations from every
commercial town in the Empire, •coutplaining of their effects, and
telling him that the majority of That evening were wrong; he shotild
vote with the hon. member 11* Odlington (Mr. Baring) against
them, satisfied that a ease of greater hardship and distress never
had been pressed upon the attention of Parliament; he should, how.
ever, now give notice, that when the report of these resolutions was
brought up, he should move that the duty be 20s.
Mr. RARING said he should advise the right honourable gen-
tleman(the Chancellor of the P xeliequer)Abier to withdraw his re-
solutions. or to reduce the duty cis.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he certainly
should not accede to such a proposition.
Mr. HUNKISSON explained.
After some conversation, In which Mr. Brougham, Mr. Hus-
Mason, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Lonl ikon, Sir Robert
Peel, Mr. Bright, and Mr. Keith Douglass, took part, the house di-
vided, when there appeared
For the Resolutions
Against them

klajorky. l7
On our entering the house, we found Mr. BROUGHAM on his
legs, urging attention to the early conaidetation of the Chancery
Court question.
Lord MILTON offered a few words relative to the disposal of his
motion regarding the corn question, which stood for that night.
Colooel SI BTHORPE abo offered a few remarks relative to his
motion fur the better accommodation of reporters.

SALE OF LEES lILL.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the
order be read for the further considered= of the report on the Sale
of Beer Bill.—(Cries of no, no.)
Sir E. KNATCHBULL appealed to the house whether they
ought to proceed at so late an hour P--(Cries of go on, and no, no.)
Sir K. KNATCHBULL—What am I to do; am Ito go on?
—(No, no; yes, now, now.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—Is it the wish
of the house that I should postpone the business ?—(Yes, yes ;
No, no; and do on, go on.)—Well, I move that the amendments
be now agreed to. The question having been put for the " ayes "
and " noes," the " noes" called out numerously and loudly ;
whereupon a division was called for (it being at this time after one
o'clock,) and the gallery was cleared for one. None, however, we
understand, took place, though strangers were excluded five minutes.
On our re-admission to the gallery we found
Sir E. KNATCHBULL on his legs. He said, as the bill was
to be proceeded in, late as was the hour, he was desirous of moving
two additional clauses. He doubted altogether the efficacy of
the measure--he considered that it would sacrifice a large por.
lion of revenue without benefiting the public ; but the prin.
ciple of the bill having been adopted by the house, he would
limit his observations to the clause he was about to propose.
The measure was mentioned as one that would afford relief
to the labouring classes. If he believed that it would have
that effect—that it would enable those classes to carry home to
their families this wholesome beverage—he should approve of
the measure ; but he doubted most deliberately whether It I
would benefit them in any way whatsoever. The principle of
the bill, however, he must repeat, having been sanctioned by
the house, he would not debate it further ; but, by endeavouring to
economise the time of the house, he would limit himself to an ob-
servation or two as to the clauses he was about to propose. It must
be impossible for any member not to recollect that a large portion
of property would be affected by this Bill, if carried into effect in its
present form ;in fact, no one attempted to deny it. To limit that
evil in some degree was the object of his first clause. There was
not only vast property embarked in the trade, but it was impossible
not to recollect that it was so embarked on the faith of Acts of Par.
liament, and that the property so secured was consequently as
secure as that of the fundholdent. (Hear, hear.) The con-
sequence of agitating the trade was adverted to on the occa-
sion of Mr. Esteourt's Bill in 1828; but it was then said that
such bill would settle the question. (Hear, hear.) Yet, after
all that had been effected, after the question had been so so-
lemnly disposed of, then came this new measure, this new invasion
upon the property, this measure which was to demolish it at a blow.
On the faith of that bill, not only various sales and investments had
taken place, but mortgages had been effected, and settlements ar-
ranged. His first clause was to prohibit the consumption of beer
on the premises where it was sold. lie could not think that such a
clause would affect the principle of the bill ; those who wished to
purchase the beer from the houses proposed to be licensed,
would still have the opportunity. To adopt a contrary course
would be to encourage the increase of those houses of which
it was said there were already too many ; and in the country
it would encourage the consumption of smuggled spirits. If the
bill were passed in its present shape, the house would deviate
from the principle it had ever acted upon heretofore ; houses
had been opened for the public convenience; now they were to be
opened exclusively for the purposes of revenue. That was a new
principle—but if acted upon, he feared it would fail the Govern.
ment. It was absolutely necessary that some precautions should
be adopted in the licensing and controlling of Houses for the sake
of the morals of the country; and he therefore felt confident that
he should carry his first clause.- (Hear.)—His second clause would
be to limit the duration of the Act to three years, thus to secure a
revision of the measure after having had experience of its operation.
The question was then put, that the first clause be brought up.

Sir C. BURRELL expressed himself confident that had the malt
tax been repealed, the effect would be more beneficial to the coun-
try. He objected to the bill, and particularly to that part of it
which went to allow the beer to be consumed on the premises where
it was bought. That would be most prejudicial ;it would abstract
labourers from their homes, husbands from their wives. The clause
now proposed, therefore, had nis decided support.
Sir J. SEBRIGHT said he had from the first doubted the effi-
cacy of the bill, and he considered it would be a great hardship
upon publicans, many of whom had vested their all, and more than
their all, in their houses, and on the faith of acts of parliament.
The principle of the bill, however, had been adopted ; and while he
lamented that some clause was not proposed that would limit the
evil, and that be could support, he reluctantly stated that he could
not approve of either of the clauses now proposed.
Mr. BRAMSTON observed that many had considered the num.
her of public.houses a great evil ; this hill went to increase the
evil. As to destroying monopolies. if the bill passed, he considered
that they would still continue to exist. The present system of
licensing, by the notices, &c. secured a wise and salutary controul,
while the proposed plan imposed no controuL lie felt it to be his
duty, theeefore, to support the amendment.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQITER observed that the
argument used by the member for Kent had been answered on the
occasion of the amendment moved by the member for Reading (Mr.
3lonck.) He had heard nothing that induced him to alter the bill
mit had been reported to the house. (Hear, hear.) The hon.
member foe Kent (Sir Edward Knatchbull) called on them not
to abandon the cause of the brewen and the publicans. They
were an influential body, and their cause had been powerfully
and ably pleaded. He admitted their great respectability, and the
just importance of their case; but he was bound, on behalf of the
Government, to attend to the interests of the public.—( Hear, hear,
from Mr. Brougham.) He, therefore, implored the house not to
adopt the amendment, as the adoption of it would go to debar the
labouring classes from enjoying those benefits which were contem-
plated by the repeal of the beer duty and the present bill. In
reference to Mr. Emmet's bill, it was asked, why was the
trade again to be disturbed ? Because that was now deter.
mined on which was not then contemplated—the repeal of the
beer duty. If the duty was rtpwlW, without this measure
being carried, it would only benefit the privileged dealers it
would confer no benefit on the labouring classes. The brewers
and publicans had made their case known hilly and ably ; but
let it not hence be inferred that there was no anxiety on
the other side of the question in the country. He had received com-
munications this day from Kent, Sussex, and other places, stating
that though the parties bad not the power of rapidly combining to
make their sentiments known, if time was allowed, they would for.
ward petitions to the house. praying the adoption of this measure in
its present form. It was urged that the bill would be of ruinous
injury to them alreadngaged in the trade; he, however, did not's°
the length of those who held that opinion—he did not believe that
the Wiwi, would be by any means to the extent which was con-
tended for by some. It was incumbent upon government to take
measures calculated to extend the sale of beer at a cheaper rate, and
to relieve the people at large from the exactions they had been
subjected to. The other argument of the honourable member
was as to the effect this measure would have on the morality of
cm country. He said the public would suffer ; but he would ask
the hen. member bow his clause would tend to improve it? He (the
Chancellor of die Exchequer) thought the retail brewers not being
allowed to sell beer on their premises, had been productive of great
mischief, and had given rise to most vexatious prosecutions, not
front causes arising in crime, but simply front error to let beer be
drunk on the premises • and it would do away with those vexatious
prosecutions, and extend the trade. For these reasons he felt bound
to oppose the clause of the hew member, particularly so as the bill
as it now stood was saddled with securities, and made all persons
who might hereafter embark in the trade subject to all the liabilities
sadpeo shier that now existed against the Licensed Victuallers. It
was Intended by this measure to give a boon to the public, therefore
' let it be unshackled; he dould not think the home would adopt the
clause ' • if it did, the hopes and just expectations of the country
would be disappointed, as the measure was looked upon as one cal-
cuLtted to afford great relief. He would not temple further on
the time of the house, but merely content himself by again ex-
presemg hL eppositioa to the clause of the honourable baronet's.
Mr. BENEtT saki he could not think the tiontse;if adopted