The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-17 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 17, 1842

those who, by the aid of money, ease, and leisure might have the
means of extending their measure throughout society, which
might tend to soften, to raise, and to benefit society. That was
what the lion. Member meant, he supposed, by maintaining
the interest of the landed gentry, but it yet remained to be shown
that all those advantages, if advantage s they were, were to be
maintained only at the expense of protection. e ( Mr. R. )
did not believe that the gentry of England would be ruined
by an alteration of the Corn-laws. Could it. he supposed that
they would be less wise, less courteous, less country gentle
men, than before ? Was it to be imagined that they, who
were the ornament, the flower, the Corinthian capital of the
country, were supported by the 20s. duty nn.corn, and could
only exist in common with a tariff? He (Mr. Roebuck)
could not believe any such thing. They were a great benefit
ta society, but they would be just as much so without the
20s. duty on corn. Wealth, to be beneficial to society, did
not require to be in large sums and few hands.--( Hear. )
It was said that the Corn-laws did not take any thing from the
country, or that, if the landlords got with one hand they paid
with the other ; but surely, in that case, they may as well give
them their goods at once—( Hear, hear)—that was the mean •
ing of the argument. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
had endeavoured to prove, last night, that the advantage de-
rived from the Corn-laws by the landed interest did not amount
to more than five millions. He certainly differed from the
Hon. Member for Bolton, who said that they gained fifty mil-
lions. But assuming it to be five millions, w Inch was only as
a drop in the ocean of the evil, did they not, in addition, pre-
vent. them from stretching their commerce to many places
which would be glad to receive their products? Tt.e landed
aristocracy said they were our best consumers.; but if they
gave back the five millions they acknowledged to have taken
away, and allowed them to extend their commerce, they
would soon get consumers elsewhere. If as seas said by the
Honourable Member for Bolton, they received fifty mil-
lions for their own benefit, he (Mr. Roebuck) thought
they paid too much for their Corinthian column.—( Laughter. )
He repudiated the entire doctrine of protection. It could not
be shown to be of the slightest advantage to the country—it
increased the expenditure of the whole people for the benefit
of the few, to maintain a small section in a state of affluence for
that was the nature of protection. It meant that the great
body of the people were to undergo great privations and suffers
inns, that they were to endure great distress, that they were
to starve, that they were to be reduced to a condition harrow-
ing to humanity, and yet that the benefit, to be derived from
monopoly was so great as to outweigh all these terrible disas-
ters.—(Cheers. ) The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had
said if any odium attached to the sliding scale it was attached
to a fixed duty. He admitted it. A fixed duty was open to
al the objections of a sliding scale. He should be ashamed to
use arguments against the one and not admit them when he
believed them to be as forcible against the other. He believed
the 'light Honourable Baronet would give him credit
for that.—( Hear, hear.) It had been said by the advocates
of a fixed duty that the landed interest mostained peculiar bur-
dens, for which they sought to be remunerated. Now he
would answer that statement in two ways. In the first place,
he denied the assertion.—( Hear, hear.) Let them prove the
existence of those peculiar burdens ; but they always shrunk
from the proof.—(Cheers.) Let them prove the fact, and
then it w-suld be more economical to remove those burdens
directly.—( Cheers. ) He was glad to hear Right Hon. Gen-
tlemen cheer, and be hoped when they proposed relief, that
these Hon. Gentlemen would vote for them ; and then they
would say that their representations were fair and honest, and
that the agricultusists had been unfairly dealt with.—( Cheers. )
But he should say in the first place, "prove your grievance."—
( !fear, hear, and cheers.) One said he paid the Poor's-
rate ; why so did he (Mr. Roebuck). Another said
he paid the county rate. Why, so did he.--( Hear, hear. )
'the landed interest did not pay exclusive burdens, and he be-
lieved that the quota of the rest of the claimants would be
found to he larger than what Hon. Gentlemen supposed. But
if the Isnded interest did bear particular burdens, it had no
right to make that an argument in support of monopoly, but it
should come forward and lay its petitions on the table of the
House, explain its grievances, and ask for a remedy, and not,
as was said by an lion. Gentleman on his side of the House,
who said that in every vote he gave on the Corn-laws he con-
suited his own private interests, ask for relief on private
grounds. That lion. Gentleman 8£ not content with mak-
ing that statement once, but he reiterated it several times.
But then came the saving clause, that lie always voted for the
interests of the public. He (Mr. R.) supposed that any
Gentleman on the opposite side of the House would *ay the
same.—(A laugh.) All persons agreed in these generalities.
Every body working for the benefit of the public—in that there
could be no dispute—( A laugh)—were all virtuous ;
body could doubt it. —( Renewed laughter.) Ile (Mr. R.)
had not those Roman virtues. Such was not the conduct
which ought to be pufsued on public questions, for, if so, every
gentleman opposite might say he best consulted the interests of
his country by consulting his private advantage. He (Mr.
Roebuck) would beg to remind them, that they were not
sent there for their own private interests but to vote for the
public advantage, and not in the vain hope that by consulting
their private interests they might do some good for the country
thereby. They were there to represent the community at
large, and they must act as if their own interests were but a
fract ion. Those interests, to be sure, might enter into their calcu-
lation, but still they were only a fraction. If that were true
he entreated Hon. Gentlemen opposite, when they came to a
full and fair consideration of the question before the House to
discard all peculiar considerations, and to gire up such local virtue
as had been displayed by the Hon. Gentleman to whom he alluded,
otherwise they might imagine that in consulting their private
interests, they were also consulting those of the public, and
that in maintaining the Corn-laws, they maintained the pros-
perity of the country. The public abroad thought they were
sent to Parliament for their benefit, end if they looked to their
distress with the calm philosophy with which every man should
regard the sufferings of the poor; and if they maintained such
stoicism, a time for reckoning would soon come.—( Hear,
hear.) That time he believed to be about to arrive, for in his
heart he thought that at the present time the working
classes of the country were looking on at the great
experiment which was being tried with the most intense inte-
rest and anxiety.—( Hear, hear.) It had been said that they
took no part, or at least but a small part, in this agitation,
and he believed it.—(hear, hear.) But (continued the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman) let no mar, deceive himself. 1 he
wo king classes see there is a great experiment going on with
re,peet to two great classes of society—between the landed
interests and that which is called the mercantile interests.
First, they are waiting to see if the landed interests have a due
regard to their situation—whether they will .voluntarily yield
to the distress, and to the demands which that distress creates.
—( Hear, hear.) Such is their expectation from the landed
interests, from the mercantile interests, whom they regard as
more peculiarly their representatives ; they are waiting to see
if by their unaided efforts, they can so act as to compil the
the landed interest to do them justice, if that interest is not
of itself inclined to do so.--( Hear, hear.) If it should turn
out that the experiment fails, the people will come to two con-
clusions first, that you will not do them justice, and secondly,
that you are not able to do it.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) And
if the people discover the weakness of the mercantile classes,
the great body of the industrious portion of the community,
seeing the weakness of that class in this House, will hope for
their co-operation in other systems of agitation.—(Loud
cheers.) And depend upon it that the people, not looking at
it simply as a mercantile question, or as one of fiscal regula-
tion, but as one pregnant with the mind of a great statesman,
will in time compel that statesman to meet the wishes of the
age and force him onward, as they did before when he lagged
behind the knowledge of the age.—(Cheers.) Now, he is
again lagging behind and refuses to join in the onward march,
and he may be left behind now again to recover the opportu-
nity he has lost. This I believe to be.the time not only for
the interest of the people, or the mercantile classes,.but for
the statesman-like capacity of the Right Hon. Gentleman.—
( Cheers.) On him, and on his head alone, will be concentrated
the onus and the odium of his failure to relieve the distress of
the country. He will have shown either that he has not had
the sagacity to understand that distress, and the mode of its
relief, or that seeing and well-knowing it, he has not the cou-
rage to suggest it. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman resumed
Isis scat amidst loud cheers.
Lord ASHLEY said it was not his intention to enter at all
into the discussion of the matter now before the House, but he
did hope that in a matter quite personal to himself the House
would bear with him for a moment. At five o'clock to-day
he had been informed that the Hon. Member for Sheffield
(Mr. Ward) in his speech last night haul thought fit to make
something in the nature of an attack upon him (Lord Ashley).
Not having been in the House when the lion. Member deli-
livered his speech, he (Lord Ashley) had not the benefit or the
pleasure of hearing it, but as soon as he had information of the
terms in which the lion. Member had alluded to him (Lord
Ashley), he resorted to the only channel through which he
could obtain an accurate statement of the language attributed to
the Honourable Member. ( Here the Noble Lord drew forth
a newspaper from which he was about to read, when a cry of
" Order, order," was raised from various parts of the Ilouse.)
The Noble Lord went on to say that to the expressions of the
s
dht
otehge(invlsleottrhhdreoAuflilitiitl,e.
tsyht)e coconhutarindandeircleihci
contradiction.—
( aa a ne
d
AteeriAarhitgst. rhasaiihorahrictaillenhlgemvitease:ey,lgyet
( Hear, hear. ) He understood that the Hon. Gentleman said
h
p
n:shb:ors:ltbemmeafjohonstobanaysTetci
esatlaenttrelhyreeltareodacarei? :shit
_dienti
againsttti:dhi
,iwon(e—eweengdatr oHeset
teu:doNh aoptliarodenebwetn,ne.yi
chrgllt
bet
beehvalnadaneei
uvrNromdcae.ed
fe.ol)ebtrid Noble
tde:
bloodirts
Didue: forhacessous Lisoascli
posnnhiochi
rrl:nio.aidoennrsuen,tgaisnhuaomento%redfdresee:es:t bhai
hntteboi
ei
sanrnatdoio
agtaowutlwgel
htogi
.htamos' sttt:
p astates
h
of. barbarism. Did the Hon. Gentleman know whether he
nAoiwerawb-heerthfoerr
lie was present in the House at the time that speech was deli-
vered.—(Hear, bear.) Now certainly of a charge of that
nature it would have been but courteous that he should have
had some previous notice. What would the House think
tt:lstnic(K(hhhiiiocae:ll:oecariiilti
rni,i,elittir,eia,,,ersgi.p.,,r,at,(di
set Member,oohe
havingla
was
rf
eal
per
when he mentioned that he had not heard the speech of the
Bon. Member for Knaresbolough at all ? Nay, more ; he
(Lord Ashley) was not even in the neighbourhood of the
House during any one moment when that Hon. Member was
spesking. He would now leave it to the House to decide which
of the two had exhibited the greater tendency to restore bar-
barism.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. WARD took the earliest opportunity to express his
deep regret at the mistake which he had unintentionally com-
mitted.—(Hear, hear.) He certainly could not possibly be
supposed to represent a state of things by setting which to
rights it was in the power of the Noble Lord to cover him with
confusion, if he (Mr. Ward) did not implicitly believe that
the fact was as he had stated. The Noble Lord as he (Mr.
Ward) supposed, expressed his assent to certain sentiments
and in such a way as to warrant him (Mr. Ward) in alluding
to it. If in doing so, he had misrepresented the Noble Lord;
it but remained for him to express his sincere regret for the
circumstance, and trust the Noble Lord would pardon him.
Lord ASHLEY expressed his satisfaction with the explana-
tion of the Hon. Member.—(Cries of " Divide, divide.")
Lord SANDON rose amidst renewed cries of "divide," and
much noise in the body of the Rouse, which lasted in a
greater or less degree throughout the whole of the Noble
Lord's speech, and rendered hint for a considerable length of
time inaudible in the gallery. When the Noble Lord's voice
reached us, he was contending that although the petition
L.presented to the House from the Chamber of Commerce in
14i-ierpool expressed hostility to the sliding scale, and preferred
a fixed duty, yet that the late President of the Board of
Trade (Mr. Labouchere) was not warranted in assuming from
it that the merchants of Liverpool were of opinion that the
new eliding scale wee not a vast improvement on the old one,
and that great advantages to commerce would not prise from
it. He (Lord Sandon) had within the last few days received
communications from gentlemen extensively engaged in trade,
who stated that though they preferred a fixed duty on corn to
any other description of duty, yet that the proposed scheme of
the Government was exceedingly advantageous, inasmuch as
it would give a liberal amount of protection to the agriculturist,
and secure to the revenue what had hitherto gone
into the pocket of the foreign grower.—( Hear, hear.)
Vt hat did Hon. Gentlemen tell them had been the effect of
the present Corn-laws? They said the effect of them had been
to being into cultivation an immense quantity of land, which
never ought to have been cultivated. What, then, could be
expected from a repeal of them but that that land would be
thrown out c.f cultivation, and, as a necessary consequence, that
hundreds of thousands of labourers would either be „thrown
upon the pTsor-houses, or upon the -manufacturing districts,
where the price of wages must necessarily be low ered ?—( Hear,
hear.) Its behoved them to be exceedingly cautious how they
dealt wit ,h that question. Even it they were ultimately to
have a mach lower protection, it became them, as wise states•
men, d gradually. They bad already proceeded to a
cotfn:: tgetable°ceeextent. in lowering protective -duties. Hs believed

it was the opinion of a great number of commercial men that
the effect of the proposed measure would be to
supply food' at a cheaper rite. That would be
done without impairing in any important particular
that great sinew of our national wealth and prospe-
rity—the agricultural interest of this country.—( Hear, hear. )
He firmly believed that this great interest might be protected
in perfect harmony with the manufactures and trade of the
country ; and that by the judicious compromise which he con-
sidered the present to be, they would at once promote the com-
mercial interests of the nation, and remove those feelings of
virulence and inflammation among the different, classes of so•
ciety which had unhappily been excited. He woul t not trou-
ble the House with any more remarks on the snbjcct under its
consideration. He had risen merely for the purpose of ex-
pressing,
as he was entitled to do, his belief that commercial
mu were satisfied with the measure before the House, and
that they conceived it to be a great boon ; and that, in the lan-
guage of one of his Liverpool correspondents, they hailed it as
large measure, made in a very liberal spirit."—( Cheers.)
Lord SI ORSLEY said he was anxious to explain to the
House the reasons why he could not give hts assent to the motion
proposed by his Noble Friend the Member for the City of
of London—( Cheers from the Ministerial benches)—and he
was also anxious to explain to the House why, as a Mem-
ber representing a very large and very important agricultural
constituency. he could not also give his assent to the measure
proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet.—..(Hear hear, from the
Opposition.) As the motion immediately before the House
was that proposed by his Noble Friend, the Member for the
City of London, he would first state why he could not support
that motion. He did not believe that the evils ut.der which
the country was labouring, were to be attributed to the opera-
tion of the sliding scale, or that it was the Corn-laws which
had caused the distress that existed in many carts of the -coun-
try.—(Hear, hear. ) He could not shut his e 3 es to the fact,
that the manufacturers of this country had been for a length of
time increasing in wealth, under a system of Corn-laws simi-
lar to that which now existed.--( Hear, hear.) He could not
forget that they had seen such an increase of manufacturing
prosperity in this country, as had not been witnessed in any
other part of the world.—( Hear, hear.) Although distress
certainly existed to a great extent, it should be recollected that
railroads, and many other large speculations, had chiefly ema-
nated from the manufacturers.—( Hear, hear.) He foresaw
that great evils would result from the existence of a fixed duty;
but if he were obliged to consent to a fixed duty, he would ra-
ther acce t a low fixed duty than a high one, because, while
there would
a fair chance of adhering to a low duty in times of
scarcity, a high one could not be maintained.—(Hear, hear.)
But, on the other hand, he contended that, if a low
fixed duty was to become the law of the land,
the agriculturists would find it impossible to cultivate the land
so as to produce sufficient corn for the consumption of the
people of this country. As he had already stated that he did
not and could not approve of the plan proposed by the Right
Hon. Baronet, he might almost say that he was quite at a loss
measureto accountatthis why
ti
theme; Right
because Hon.
ie•
obairioeneteetd hinadthcerioapovsseet.tiohnis,
befit' e the dissolution of Parliament, when Hon. Gentlemen,
whom he saw opposite, were on that side of the House, they,
in common with himself, were constantly presenting petitions
to that House, praying that there might be no alteration what-
ever in the Corsi-laws.—(Opposition cheers.) Their consti-
tuencies at that time prayed that there might be no alteration;
and, if he, mistook uot, many of those Hon: Members, when

they went before their constituencies, stated that they would
not consent to diminish the protection upon agricultural pro-
duce. He could refer to the speeches made by several Alem-
hers, to their constituencies, upon the hustings; and if the consti-
tuencies in the agricultural districts were not told explicitly that
there would be no alteration—if a loophole were left open for
the purpose of enabling them to support the Right Hon. Bart.
when he proposed his alteration, adhering to the principle of
the sliding scale, still an impression was left by Hon. Mem-

hers opposite upon the minds of their constituents, that no alte-
ration which might be proposed to be made in the Corn-lasts
would receive their assent.—(Cheers from the Opposition.)
The Hon. Member for Rutland stated to his constituents upon
the hustings, that " the present laws could not be altered for the
better."—(Continued cheering.) The Hon. Member for
Northamptonshire was "prepared to stand by the present law."
—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member for East Norfolk said that
" in maintaining the scale of duties the national safety con-
sisted."—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Suffolk de-
clared thi4.t he should " oppose any attempt to alter the pre-
tent system." Ills colleague also was opposed to any altera-
tion.—(Loud cheering.) Now he hoped that those Hon.
Members who had proposed those opinions in the pre-
sence of their constituents, and bad led them to believe
that they would not support any Ministry who proposed
to diminish the protection afforded to agriculture, would join
him ( Lord Worsley) in opposing the measure of the Right
Hon. Baronet.—( Loud cheers from the Opposition. ) And
not only had the lion. Members, to whom he had alluded, in-
timated to their constituents that they would not give their
support to any 'measure which would diminish the protection
of agriculture, but they had also conveyed an impression to the
county Members Members
w
minds of the agriculturists that the Right Hon. Baronet was
ou
not lik-ly t propose any measure which would have such a
tendency;l
iform
thefor, enwshiernigttshv ofperceivedas
party, t h t thhee
their
being opposed to a change, it was inferred from that that the
old protection would be continued.---( Hear, hear.) Although
he (Lord Worsley) had opposed the propos,tion of the late
Government with respect to a fixed duty, because he had ven-
tured to say that he approved of their general policy, an at-
tempt was made, on the part of some gentlemen in his county,
to persuade the electors that he was no longer fit to represent.
them.—( Hear, hear.) He stated to his constituents that he
had no confidence in the Jate Government, as regarded the
protection to be afforded to agriculture; but, at the same time,
he stated that he did not believe that the Right Hon. Baronet
opposite would continue the existing protection ; that although
he had with much pleasure frequently heard him say that he
would maintain the principle of a sliding scale, yet he was not
satisfied that the old protection would be continued.—OHear.)
He wzs frequently told in his own country that he misrepre-
sented the Right Hon. Baronet—(Cheers from the Opposition
benches)—ana the consequence was that there was an oppo-
sition raised against him at the election ; but he was proud to
say that he stood there the representative of 5,400 persons who
had voted for him under the impression, and who had sent him

. .
there fur the purpose of maintaining for them as great a pro-
tection as they enjoyed under the present law.-( Hear, hear.)
The Right Hon. Baronet, in his opening speech, had given
various reasons why he had thought it necessary to bring for-
ward his measure. Ile stated, however, among other things,
that he did not think that the Corn-laws were the cause of the
manufacturing distress, and that it could be accounted for by
other causes; and the only reason he (Lord Worsley) could
find out for the proposal to alter the present system of Corn-
laws, was that the agriculturists thought they might be altered
with advantage. Now, if the Right lion. Baronet were right,
as it appeared to him ( Lord Worsley) he was right, in not at-
tributing the distress that ,now prevailed to the operation of
the present lass s, and if the Right Hon. Baronet the rseeretary
for the Home Department were correct in saying, as he did
last night, that the manufacturers were now comparatively
prosperous, inasmuch as there were many new mills building,
and many had lately been erected--if these things were so, he
would ask why it was that it had been thought necessary to in.
troduce a new system ? If the manufacturers were not dis-
tressed, why were the agriculturists to be deprived of their
protection ?-( Hear, hear.) It these things were so, and if the
Right Hon. Baronet proposed an alteration because the agri-
culturists thought the law ought to be altered, he wished to
know why the Right Honourable -Baronet had proposed his
particular scale of duty ? Perhaps- the Right Honourable
Baronet thought that the agriculturists felt that the law
might be so amended, because his (Lord Worsley's) Hon.
Colleague (Mr. Christopher) had proposed a similar scale. In
the month of October last his Hon. Colleague, addressing his
constituents, said, that " it appeared to him, if he were oar-
rect in his estimate, that foreign wheat could be imported into
this country at 365. a euarter, exclusive of duty ; but that a
duty of 20s. would be a protection when corn was at 365., as
when it was at 50s. Therefore he would venture, with great
diffidence, to suggest whether they might not greatly simplify
the present scale, which he thought too complicated, by sub-
stituting another maximum and minimum duty, the maximum
to be 20s. when the duty was 505., and the minimum to be ss.
when the pi ice was 655. '-(Hear, hear.) Now he would ask
the Right Hon. Baronet whether he did not think he was
wrong in the scale he had proposed, when he said that the pro-
position of his (Lord Worsley's) Honourable Colleague
was so unpopular in the county in which it was
proposed that he himself had introduced an amend-
ment to the measure of the Right Honourable Baronet ?--
( Loud cries of " Hear, hear," on the Opposition benches.)
Although it was his own proposition, so much was it disliked
in the county which he represented, that he was himself about
to amend his own proposition.-(
Opposition cheers.) The
Government seemed to draw their scale of duty, by taking
the average to have been during the last ten years, 565. 11d.
Now he (Lord Worsley) hid taken the average during the last
ten years, which he found amounted to 605., in the third quar-
ter of each year, that being the time at which the greatest quan-
tities were sold, because it was then that the merchant made
his sales for the purpose of raising the averages, while it was
the time at which the farmer had any corn. He would
trouble the House with a detail of various quantities,
He b-lieved that the quantity of corn sold in the first quarter of
the year 1840 amounted to 949,156 quarters. In the se-
edeeefheacnt
defects
s which
se-
cond quarter it amo inted to 860,484 qrs. ; in the third quarter
to 1,1'21,339 ; and in the fourth quarter 982,830 ; but in the
third quarter when the average price was 60s. there was a greater
quantity sold, and the merchant was thereby being enabled
to raise the averages, while the farmer was not benefitted by the
high price, as that was the period at which he had this corn to
dispose of. The Right Hon. Baronet stated the other night,
that he considered the remunerating price to the farmer ought
to range from 545. to 583. But he (Lord Worsley) hadno he-
sitation in saying on the part of his constituents thatthey would
not consider that a remunerating price. He had hoard it com-
monly said by them, that on the present. system they would
consider a f ar remuneratin? price L.. be ,about 60e. He
would endeavour to show, with the permission of the House,
that the propo.it ion of the Government would not be beneficial
either to the public or the farmer. By the scale proposed by
stated to be a remunerating price, would be 16s. He (Lord
years, paying a higher' duty
the Government the duty at 545., which the Hon. Baronet
year 1831, 622 quarters of
paying a duty of 275. 10d. ;
Worsley) had taken the pains to ascertain the quantity of corn
introducedtilan 16s. diluer i
found
ut hde t
hl aastt
ituo
o e
wheat had been introduced at 225. 7d. ; in 1832, there had
been introduced 166,127 quarters,
235. 11(1. In 1834, 163,041 quartersad been introd
been introduced at
21a. 2d. In 1835, 47 quarters had
oduuced at a duty of
in 1833, 110,044 quarters had beeninhtardodeced at a duty of
ced at a duty of
quarters had been •
265. &I. In 1837, 210,254
quarters had introdueed at a
duty of 20a. 9d. In 183,,., n,,,,,
18,466
4n nu. quarters .been introduced
at a duty of 275. In 1839, , had been intro-
ducedand in 1840, 299,354 quart h d
at a duty of 18s. pd.; It appeared to Ili - era
a
been introduced at 20s. ad.
uld b b m that ifs h 275. In 1836, 997 quarters had been introduced
who
they had
Bd., in the year 1840
merchant at a duty of 20s. , , a duty
Sficient protection for the farmer.
It 16s. would not be a su
quantity of 299,354 quarters co e rought in by the
that
correct tthe
e tine '.'merchants
ntity ot corn in 1840 at s li. o igh a
introduced that large qua
have made a profit b
duty must be supposed to
1:a that, the• y the transac-
tion. His tonstituents said proposed method of
It should also be rememberedhlo:
taking the averages vrou system ;
acknovrledged to exist in the presentrrectly made u . but Le thought
that the averagr s might be correctly
and the purchpasby taking "Pa-
rate returns from the
thegrowe
other ; and thise 1•, and making
one party act as a check
" ents, he trusted' being the una-
nimous feeling of his constituents,
T ittleie suggestion
vernment.
wouli be entertained by h.
1 d'n scale did not farmers ge-
nerally thought that the sit g
latter what had give protection
enough for wheat ; but still,
to
kbeen intimated in
an, supposed
the speech ofan Hon. Gentles'
be now the inten-
tionstter than the
of the Government, it
vas
ornmurat f ley had expected.
But in the large agricultural c
not twoY from which he (the
were
thought ought not to
oats and barley, which they hare less pro-
tection than the present,
ireect to raise 'hat great labour, ex-
pense, and preparation requ•-i
ng
, (I, scale th erop. No aoulst the
Government thought the si , ey proposed was the
O. lie had in
best, but others did not thick s
from Germany stating that the
Gentleman
whom Sir Robert
Peel sent to make inquiries wast,laughed at for his ignorance
) asur d
and unfitness, for he (the age" -
laws e the merchants and
farmers there, that if" the;
Cornturni were repealed, imme-
diately their land would grosv,
___ev, 'wand wheat.-(Cries of
,H -mild co
" Hear, hear," and question. ) .
race .
b. . nclude by pressi
the Government to consider the p practicability of adopting some
better mode of taking the, averages, for tothe.fianger involved in
is constituents lookedwith e
more
alarm part of the subject;
his
Ines, that
alarm than anything else. of his remarks would
give a handle to the opponents a sliding scale, but still
thinking that a fixed duty would be most injurious to the
country, as it could not inallitail a Pll4cient protection and the

farmer when corn was low, nor satisfy the consumer when
prices were high, while justice might be done to both by a
more stringent system of taking the avarages under a sliding
scale, he must on this principle oppose tho proposition, of the
Noble Lord.—(Cries of "Question," and cries of . Peel.")
The filet Hon. Baronet was about to rise, but
Mr. CHRISTOPHER begged leave to say a few words in
reply to the reflections of the Noble Lord, whom
he must congratulate on his new born zerl in
sehalf of the agricultural interests. 'When he con-
sidered that at the commencement of the last ses-
sion, his Noble Friend had thought fit to vote for an address to
the Crown, which attributed all the distress to the Corn-laws,
he thought it would ill become him or. the present
h7scasion
either to tax him with having deserted the interests of
con-
stituents, or to apologise to the House for coming forward tog explain the course he had pursued. His Noble Friend had
ecorded his vote in favour of a Corn-law Administration, and
he thought, therefore, that it ill became him to accuse his Right
Hon. Friend at the head of the Government, with supporting
the agriculturists. His Noble F. iend had been pleased
to state that. he (Mr. Christopher) was the
person who recommended to his constituents, the
adoption of a maximum duty of 20s. on the importation of
foreign corn. He did take an opportunity, at the commence-
ment of the last Session, when he thought not only his Noble
Friend, and those who acted with him, but when both
(louses were pledged to entertain the question of the revision
of the Corn-lass, he applied his mind to the subject, and
offered the suggestions which he thought for the benefit of his
constituents. He did not say that the maximum duty of 20s.
should be levied on foreign corn. What he stated was, that
that if foreign corn could be introduced in any quantity, ex-
clusive of duty, at the price of 365., that then a maximum of
20s. would be a sufficient protection.—(Cries of " Hear,
hear.") He stated, also, that if corn could be introduced
in any quantity under 36s , that then the maximum duty should
he 255., and he stated also that if corn could be introduced in
any quantity at a lower rate that then the duty should be 30s.
He had taken the opportunity of making these statements, not
in any part of the county he represented, where he would be
supported by party feelings, but he made it in the presence of
many of the tenants of the Noble Lord, and whether he stated
that the maximum duty should be 265. or 255. as a sufficient
protection, it was not only well received but. cheered by the
persons living on the estate of the relatives of the Noble Lord,
and it was not until six weeks afterwards When the oble
Lord, for the sake of embarrassing the Administra-
tion, chose to agitate the country, that his own tenants
ever heard anything of a maximum duty of 20s. In six weeks
however, after that declaration had been made, many letters
were written by the tenants of the Noble Lord, and the con-
sequence was, that a panic arose from that agitation. This
he would say, however, that since the proposal of the Govern-
ment had been put forth, ever. with all its defects, he believed
from the information he had received from the county he re-
presented, the great majority of the county would rather
accept the measure as it was, than be companions with the
Noble Lord to reject that measure and the Government, and so
o leave the agricultural interest at the mercy of the Noble Lord,
He should have other opportunities of addressing that House,
as he hail given notice of a motion—(Laughter)--that when
the House resolved itself into a Committe, lee should state to
that Committeegood and sufficient reason why the Committee
should adopt a maximum duty of 255. in preference to the duty
proposed by her Majesty's Government. Whether the House
agreed to that proposal or not, so persuaded was he that it was
desirable for the permanent settlement of this question for
the benefit of the agriculturist, and for the benefit of
those he represented, and whom the Noble Lord rcpre •
sented, that he would rather see the measure proposed
by the Administration, passed without a tingle alteration, then
see the agriculturists left to the tender mercies of the Noble
Lord opposite.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the course
of conduct he hail pursued, all he could say was, that he was
not afraid to meet his constituents at any time, and enter into
a contest with the Noble Lord before them.—(Cries of
" Question, question.") The Noble Lord had imputed to
him that he had acted the unworthy part of concerting with
the Administration to overthrow the agricultural inte-
rests, and to compromise that of his constituents.
Now, with respect to wheat, he had no hesitation in appealing
to his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government
and his colleagues to say, whether on any occasion, whether
directly or indirectly he had ever made a communication
with them until he had declared his opinion in the presence of
his constituents?—(Cries of " Question, question.")
Lord WORSLEY, in explanation, observed, that in what
he had stated to the House he had not the most remote idea
of casting any reflections on the Hon. Member.
Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY said that he was not going
to desert the landed interest, for fear being charged with at-
tending too much to tho demands of the middle classes. He
!la tight that by adopting a sufficient fixed duty they would •
get rid of gambling specnlations, which pressed so heavily upon
manufacturers, while the sliding scale did not protect the
landed interest. Under these circumstances, and entertaining
those opinions, he would support the motion of the Noble Lord.
Sir R. PEEL rose, amidst much cheering, and addressed
the House as follows :—Mr. Speaker, Sir,—After the demand
Ifit it my duty to make upon the patience of the House in
bringing forward the measure, I shall feel it incumbent to limit
myself as much as the nature of the motion will allow, and I
will confine myself to the issue raised by the proposal of the
Noble Lord. lam a little surprised at the nature of the issue
raised by the Noble Lord. I am quite aware that I have to
contend against two classes of antagonists, entertaining two
opposite opinions; the one led by the Noble Lord, the advocate
of a fixed duty ; the other, conducted by those who are the '
decided enemies of all duty. Now, I was a little curious to
know by what process these two classes of antagonists could be
brought to range under the same banner. The Noble Lord I
expected to affirm that a fixed duty ought to be preferred to a
sliding scale. I heard much from the Noble Lord and those
who support him in coudemnation of those who oppose his
measure, but they did not clearly anounce their opinions.
Concur, if you please, its what the Noble Lord has said ; reject
I say, if you will, my plan, upon these considerations ; but if
you bring forward abstract propositions, in order that you may
conic to what are to be the measures of Government, then it is
fitting with the dignity and character of our proposition to put
upon record, the great principles on which you found your ob-
jections. The Noble Lord has said to me, "it is very well
for you to say this—you are in opposition, and are not charged
with the functions and responsibilities of government, but you
have been long in public life, you have the confidence of a large
party, this is a great question, and has undergone repeated dis-
cussion, and the country wants to know the principles on which
you would be disposed to govern." I did then expect that
the Noble Lord, not uniting in the third reading of a Bill
with men of opposite opinions for the rejection of that measure,
but at the outset, putting forth the grounds and principles on
which the measure could not be entertained, I did expect that
the Noble Lord, after the eloquent condemnation I heard from
him on theevils of ambiguous and abstract resolutions, I didex-
pect, I say, to hear something more from him than such a reso-
lution as he has proposed. How those who advocated the prin-
ciple of no duty at all can vote for this proposition, I cannot
understand. The mover of this proposition is an advocate for !
a fixed duty, and you may infer the character of abstract resolu.
lions from the principles of those who move them.—( Hear.)
The Noble Lord merely affirms that this House, looking at
the evils which have resulted from a graduated sliding
scale, is not prepared to adopt the measure of her
Majesty's Government, founded on the same principle, and
which would be attended with similar results. Why, a fixed
duty plainly lurks under these expressions.—(Cheers.) Your
Mover is in favour of a fixed duty, and how will you, who are
opposed to all graduated scales as mischievous, and to a fixed
duty as a positive injustice, how will you agree with the ad-
vocates of a fixed duty ? Ambiguous as the terms of this mo-
tion may be, this I know, that it does involve a fixed duty,
and nothing else ; and how you can agree with it I cnnnot per-
ceive. Now, the motion the Noble Lord ought to have made
is clearly this—with his principles—(A laugh from the Opposi-
tion benches)—Oh ! I only meant if he intends to carry out
his principles.—(Tory cheers.) I pay, it seems, a greater
compliment to the Noble Lord than his former colleagues.—
(Renewed cheers.) Both the principles are at issue. The
question whether a fixed duty is preferable to a sliding scale ;
and if the Noble Lord had acted on his precedent of 1830, it
is clear that the resolution he ought to have moved should
have been this :—Resolved that no settlement of the Corn-laws
can be permanent or satisfactory that does not include the
principle of a fixed duty.—(Loud cheers.) Acting on the
precedent of 1830, when it was very difficult to bring men of
conflicting opinions to join in one common course, and
unite in one common vote, that distinct kind of
resolution was the one which the Noble Lord brought forward.
But here, in this place, and at the present time, when
opinions are even more discordant, the Noble Lord knows
that he could not, form a compact and alliance with men of such
apposite views, if he had not connected himself with an ab-
stract prineiple, in order to bring those who are the opponents
of all duties to concur in a vote, in the hopes of concealing
from the eyes of that intelligent public, which, wo are told,
has its scrutinising eyes fixed upon us—to conceal from the
public by this division, what is the real nature and extent of
the difference between them. My object to-night is not to
maintain an argument with those who advocate absolute free-
dom. My conflict, if conflict it can be called, is with the de-
tails of the proposal of the Noble Lord. With regard to the
general principle the Noble Lord has laid down, as the principle
which should govern all legislation on this question, in those gene-
sal principles there is no material difference between us. I agree
with my Hon. Friend that the object that ought to animate us
is the welfare of the great body of the people.—(Cheers. )
I cordially concur with this principle ; and that man cannot be
the true friend of the agricultural interest who tries to get for
it any temporary benefit by calling on the other classes of the
community to submit to sacrifices in order that such a benefit
may be secured to it. Then, with respect to the Noble Lord,
he has told us that he would submit to any odium rather than
do an injustice to agriculture. He said the agricultural interest
was entitled to protection. First, on account of the peculiar
and special burdens to which it is subjected ; and, secondly, it
was entitled to protection if, in consequence of the long endu-
rance of laws originally and continuously defective, yet if, under
the sanction of the Legislature, men have embarked their capi-
tal and committed their pecuniary interest on the faith of what
the Legislature has done, then, said the Noble Lord, it will be
competent for you to retrace your steps. Sound policy may
enjoin you to retrace your steps, but considerations of equity
and of justice command you to combine with the establishment
of a better system a temporary protection, for these will have
been fostered under the system you have built up. These were
he sentiments of the Noble Lord, determining the course which
iie thought should be pursued with respect to agriculture. As
said before, I do not materially differ from the

Noble Lord on these principles. Our difference merely is as
to which will be the better practical measure to adopt ; and
it is because I believe that the measure I propose, namely, a
graduated scale of duty, varying inversely with the price of
corn diminishing,—l admit the amount of protection to a cer-
tain extent now received, but guarding the agricultural interest
against competition when the price is as low as it is consistent with
the interest of the consumer it should be, and dismissing the duty
altogether, when the interest of the consumer requires its aban-
donment, a better principle than the Noble Lord's for a fixed
duty—therefore, it is, that for my practical measure I do contend.
A fixed I duty why the Noble Lord himself seems inclined to
abandon it, he will have no sliding scale ; hut, in one respect,
he adopts it. The difference between us is that the
Noble Lord slides on one leg.—( Cheers and laughter. ) For with
respect to a higher amount of duty, the Noble Lord is prepared ,
to maintsiin a system of averages for the purpose of determining
when the duty at a certain point shall cease. Well, I think
my plan ensuring that cessation, is better than the plan of the
Noble Lord, because, as has just been stated in the able speech
of my 'loin Friend, the Noble Lord's plan provides that at
725. there is a duty of es., but at 735., determined by
the price of the averages, the duty altogether
ceases. If opportunities of combination can exist; if it is so
objectionable, that a duty shall aggravate the evils of high
price's ; if corn being at 70s. is an inducement to hold it till it
reaches 735., in the hopes of getting the 35., what an im-
mense inducement to hold back ; and the practice on the are-
rages will be found, on comparing the scale of the Noble Lord
eith mine, when a duty of 2s. in the pr.ce makes a difference
of Bs. in the duty —( Hear, bear. ) And with respect to Aline-
rice—supposing an American, finding the duty remitted at 735.,
ships corn for this country, and the holders of corn here have
poured it in, and availed themselves of the remission of duty,
should it be their interest to raise the duty again, which they
can do by combining, the American, vlho has imported on the
faith of the duty being abolished, is met here by a duty of 8s ,
on account of the price having risen. Why he must be aware
of the immense difficulties attending the question of a fixed
dutv,when after sirmonths deliberation, he proposes an amend-
ment, subject to almost all the evils of the existing scale.
I think that whoever considers the conflicting opinions which
have been given during the course of this debate by Gentlemen
on both sides of the House, by Gentlemen representing both
the agriculturhl and the manufacturing districts, must come to

the conclusion, that he who undertakes a revision of the Corn-
laws, undertakes oae of the most difficult and onerous tasks that
could be undertaken by any Government.-(Cheers.) Con-
trast the speech of the Noble Lord the Member for Lincoln-
shire with the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Pre-
sident of the Board of Trade.-( A laugh.) I beg pardon,
I mean the Right Honourable Gentleman the late
President of the Board of Trade.-( Hear, heir, and cheers. )
I am sure the Right Hon. Gentleman will pardon the mistake,
which I assure him was net intentional.-(Hear, hear.) It
was only last night the Right Hon. Gentleman told me that
my mode of taking the averages, while it diminished the price,
raised the duty ; while the Noble Lord says this evening that
the greatest alarm has been created in the agricultural districts
by my proposed change in the system of taking the averages, as
it was considered that the farmers would b prejudiced from
the mode in which it was proposed that the averages should be
taken. I am surprised that the Hon. Gentleman opposite
should give the countenance of his authority to the prejudices
which have been excited on this subject.-(Cheers.)
For myself I disclaim any intention of affecting the averages
improperly by the system I have proposed-( Hear, hear)-and
if on consideration of the subject I shall be convinced that the
effect will not be what I anticipate, I shall be prepared to make
any alteration which on consideration I may deem fit-
(Cheers). 1 propose merely to correct fraud, and any
protection I may take for agriculture, I will take directly
and not indirectly by any unfair tampering with the averages..
The Noble Lord, the Member for Lincolnshire, says that there
are scarcely any two persons satisfied with the scale I propose
for wheat, but that, with regard to barley and oats, my plan
meets with universal condemnation. I think that, looking to
the manner in which this plan has been received by persons of
extreme opinions on both sides, and considering the diffi-
culty of effecting anything like a satisfactory adjustment of
the question of the Corn-laws - considering the opinions
advanced by th , advocates of free trade on the one hand and
by tne advocates of protection on ti e other, I say that con-
entering the different opinions which have been advanced by
the extremes of both parties, I feel confident that moderate
men of all parties -if not entirely approving of the details of
the proposed plan-will accept it as the result of much anxious
deliberation, rather than enforce extreme opinions, and that
they will infer from the manner in which it has been received
by those entertaining extreme opinions on both sides,
that on the whole there is nothing very unreasonable in it.
and that if in itself it is a good measure it will be most de-
sirable that it should be adopted.-(Cheers. ) It has been
brought forward by myself and my colleagues, under the be-
lief that on the whole it was the most safe and practicable
measure that could be proposed in the present artificial state
of our social relations. As I stated when I first proposed the
measure, it has been brought forward, not for the purpose of
protecting any particular class-not with a view of favouring
any particular class at the expense of the others, but because
we believed that, on the whole, it was the measure best cal-
culated to Serve the general interests of the country. -( Cheers. )
I offer it to the House under circumstances of great difficulty,
as a great improvement of the existing law, and a compromise,
which moderate men of all parties ought to accept. The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite, in his speech, which
was throughout characterised by great ability, urged
me not to lag behind the spirit of the age, not to
propose any fall' measures, not to make any compromises of
principle, but to bring forward such a measure as shall at
once stamp me with the character of a statesman.-(Cheers.)
I must tell the Hon. Gentleman that I disregard that taunt-
I bring forward this measure as one calculated to effect a great
practical good. I do not pretend to brimk it forward as one
announcis g some great principle from which the person bring-
ing it forward may reap for himself some temporary popu-
larity, but which when carried will leave all the practical evils
precisely where it found them.-(Cheers and laughter.) I
stand in a different position from that in which the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman stands. I stand in a diffeient position
to that in which the Noble Lord stands. I am trying to effect
a practical adjustment of this most difficult question. It is
easy for the Hon. Gentleman to say, carry out the great princi-
ples of free trade ; but what do I find? I find mighty interests
which have grown up under the present system.-(Loud
cheers. 1 I find that, under the present system, twenty-
two millions of quarters of wheat, and forty-five millions
quarters of grain have been grown annually in this
country. When I think of the immense capital embarked
in growing this enormous quantity, what immense
pecuniary interests do I find involved-what complicated social
interests-how many families are there dependent for their
subsistence and for their comforts on the contimianee of the
present system ?-(Loud cheers.) Am I to disregard these in..
teiests altogether, and apply the principles of free trade-am I
to disregard these immense social and pecuniary interests alto-
gether ? How many leave have there been granted on the
faith of the continuance of the present system ?-( Hear.)
Take the etNe of the tenant-at-will. Is it any answer
to him to say this is a landlord's question ? His capital has
been embarked in agriculture, and any sudden influx of foreign
corn must, and would, most materially affect him. But if
disregard him, what am I to do with the leaseholders ? How
many thousand leases have been entered into on the faith of
the existing law ? F r 150 years past agriculture has been
pro'ected. Can I disregard that fact? It is no proof that the
protection was wise in the first instance, but it is a reason for
touchinglightl, those interests which have been established, and
grown up under the present system. Then again recollect that
under the Tithe Commutation Act. All your calculations
have been made upon the price of corn under the existing eye-
tem. Then, again, with regard to Ireland, the Noble Lend
proposes to admit oats at a duty of 3s. 2d. Does any one
think that it is either wise or just, without an hours' notice to
the Sister Kingdom, which sends us two millions of quarters
annually-is it wise or politic, without notice, to admit such
an influx of oats from the Continent, as would eventually drive
her produce from the market, and which must be the
case if oats are admitted at 3s. 2d. 2-( Hear, hear, hear.)
Sir, when you make an arrangement with respect to corn, it
is desirable also to consider what other produce is to be affected
by your regulation. I would wish to substitute, for the
principle of prohibition, in respect of other articles of produc-
tion, one of protection.-(Hear, hear.) I find that the pro-
posed duty would be, as regards Ireland, an absolute prohibi-
ti,,n,-(llear, hear.) And, Sir, I find that there are so many
interests involved, that it is our duty to adopt any measure
which may affect them, with the greatest caution.-( Hear,
hear.) And I must say, that whatever may be the cla-
mour of those who say that there ought to be no
prohibition or restriction on the importation of corn, I am
still of opinion, that if we act with regard to caution and jus-
tice, we should adopt that measure which will give the largest
share of satisfaction to all, and create no new source of dissatis-
faction.-( Hear, hear.) It was in this spirit, Sir, that the Go-
vernment brought forward the measure which I have laid be-
! fore the House in opposition to those who are advocates of an
entirely free trade.-( Hear, hear.) I do believe this measure
to be, a great improvement upon the existing system.-(Hear,
hear.) It is one whit-h the agriculturist can accept without
danger, and which will at the same time admit foreign produce
more advantageously to other classes than it is admitted at pre-
sent. The Noble Lord speaks of the immense advantage
of his plan as promoting our intercourse with the United
State., and of putting them upon the same footing as the Baltic
Countries. The Noble Lord told us what an immense advan-
tage it would be to be able to carry on at all times a regular 1
trade with them.-(Opposition cheers.) But the Noble Lord
said et the same time that corn from the United States would
furnish us with corn at 475. a quarter, exclusive of the duty ;
yet the Noble Lord fixed the duty at Bs. the quarter, and that
would amount to no less a prohibition upon American corn than
that which I propose. But I do not lay a stress upon the corn-
paris in. I only say that it would be a prohibition of
the constant importation of corn from the United States.
-(Cries of " Hear, hear." j It may be less a prohibition, and
less objectionable than the present, but it is a pt ohibition as far
as regards the United States.--(Hear, hear.) I have pro-
posed the duty, not because I desire to promote the interest
of a particular class, but because I thought it necessary to give
the farmer such protection as would be sufficient to encourage
him to pursue a system of improvement.-( Hear, hear.) It
has been shown that the average production of corn is 45,000,000
of quarters, and I thought it right to give the farmer an encou-
ragement to go on in that course of production without gua-
ranteeing to him a continuance of the same prices in
every season.--(Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Baronet
then went into a comparative statement of the average prices
of corn at the ports, which he said were chosen by the Noble
Lord (J. Russell) as illustrations of his principle, and which
he (Sir Robert Peel) contended would give for foreign an
average of 41s. 21d. per quarter. Well now, what does Mr.
Meek say with respect to this ? He says, that during the last
twenty-five years the average price of wheat has been 28s. Iod.
per quarter. The average price of barley 14s. per quarter,
and the average price of oats 10s. 6d. Mr. Meek says in case
of a regular demand in England fur foreign corn the quantity
g-own in Denmark would be considerably increased. I know
that in passing a law for the importation of foreign corn
I. must consider in coming to that determination, to what ex-
tent I shall affect the agricultural interests by this system of
legislation. I must not consider what may be the price of corn
at the present moment, but what may be the future prices as
operated upon by increased improvement in railroads and
other systems of transit. I take all these considerations into
account, when I am trying to legislate upon this question, and
I hope and trust that my steps are legitimate. Now Mr. Meek says
that the rate of freight from Elsinore varies from 3s. to 3s. 6d.
a quarter. He says the prices paid for a number of years ap-
pears not to have exceeded for wheat 3s. 6d., for barley and oats
Is. fid. to Is. 4d. (ar we understood). I think I have shown that
if wheat at Elsinore is 28s. 10d. the quarter, and the freight does
not exceed 4s. the quarter, that Denmark corn could be
introduced here when the price was much lower than 61s. or
625. But then you will say, perhaps, the quantity from Den-
mark .is not material.-( Hear, hear, from the Opposition
benches.) But Mr. Meek has calculated that from 150,000
to 300,000 quarters--and he says he should suppose that this
would be the smallest quantity which might be expected to be
shipped to Great Britain in years of scarcity here-that is, that
when the prices were high, from one country alone, according
of Mr. Meek 300,000 quarters might be ex-
it,Vtirdle,ti,lnulCintsye brought in in years of common necessity. I
say, then, seeing that this quantity of corn would be sent
from Denmark, do not discourage the home producers, do not
tamper with their interests, by permitting the corn from Den-
mark totally to disturb your market by throwing into it this
excess. (in that ground I vindicate my duty of '2os., not as a
protection personally intended for the farmer, bat in order to
prevent our being totally dependent upon foreign countries.
That hope is sincere. 1% hat I contend for is, that tI e supply
from abroad shall be supplemental, and that it shall not be so
substantial that our main hope shall be upon it. If you take
that as contrasted with the supply of wheat which we might
get from foreign markets, to the extent of some 22,000,000 or
95,000,000 of quarters, and if again you tell me that I cannot
look for the introduction of those 22,000,000 of quarters of
corn, you only convince me that my proposition is a just one,
and that by it we should not be exposed to the hostility
or to the caprice of foreign markets; for depend upon it the
tune may come when deficient harvests may be in other eosin•
tries as well as in this-the time may come, I say, when you
will regret you had not taken advarskge of such a measure as
I now propose to protect your interests, and that you will then
find you have relied too much upon the supplies of other coon.
tries, each of which, in turn, might be hostile to you,
and in times of scarcity imposerhicotiant s,
;enorr knouspov, thisro.bibitors•
duty upon their productions
too that, in a question of this sort, exposed as it is to the vat ia-
lions of seasons to such great fluctuations as those which
must naturally have the effect of rendering our own produc-
tions variable, depend upon it that the strict principles of free
trade in an article of national subsistence, such as this is, can-
not be settled without danger ; and my firm belief is, that it
you rely so much on other countries for a supply of corn, the
hostility or scarcity of those countries might produce the most
fatal results. I do believe that the scale which I propose be-
tween 545. and 60s. will admit. of the introduction of a fair
quantity of corn, and that it will not induce so great a quantity
as will be injurious to the country._(hear, hear.) But I
want to secure those interests.-( Cheers.) Let us take the
upper pert of my scale, lot instance, and consider that scale
with those hitherto proposed. Take, suppose, that part of the
scale between 645. and 725.-times which indicate severe pees-
sure. When corn is 625. a quarter, I think even whet, it is
abo, e 60s. a quarter, the interests of the consumer ought
to predominate.-( Hear, hear.) I th nk the interests then of
the grower ought to be overlooked, and that the interests of
the consumer ought to predominate.-(Cheers.)__ou. en can
That is un-
questionably a fair protection. But how H
s.ayathatmyscaleiscnhoceirms, andprovemceonutntoern
cthheeerpa.re) Gentlesenmlt law
is
really a delusion.-(am,
confess, surprised how Hon. Gentlemen can compare those
scales, and say there is no difference between them.-(Hear,
hear, and ironical cheers.) I will now read the scale
• of duty which I have proposed for the adoption
of this House, as compared with, the present
scale. Whert.the average price of wheat is from 655. to 665. a
quarter, I propose that the duty should be 71., whereat the

present duty is 21s. Bd. ; at 645., it is, according to my scale, only
Ss., whereas it is 225. Bcl. Now, it continues at Os- from 661. to till. a quarter, and then it is diminished grativaNy until it.
comes down to Is. a quarter. I say that that scale is tls best
calculated to secure real and permanent advantages to ti,
country, and benefit our agricultural, rs well as our
commercial and manufacturing interests.--( Loud cheers.)
Now suppose corn 665. per quarter, a duty of 6s. attaches ;
the same duty attaches also for 675. and 68s. ; it ap-
pears to me the holders of foreign corn would rather
realize his corn at 685., with a duty of 69., than wait for
the chance of the price rising to 725. or 735. I think he
will pour in his foreign corn when the duty is 6s.
These are the calculations which will enter into his mind; and
my belief is that foreign corn will pour in to such an extent
when corn is from 645. to 655., as vt ill be a great service to
the consumer. Now, what was the scale proposed by Mr.
Canning in ItOS? At 645. his scale proposed a duty of I 2s. ,
mine a duty of So. ; at 6is. his was 10s., mine is 7s. ; at 665.
his was Se., mine is 6s. I will now take the Noble Lord's
scale, end I will compare the high price in his scale with the
high prices in mine. lie would continue the duty of
Ss. when co n was from 645. to 70,5. ; at 70s. under
my scale the duty would be 45., at 735. on my scale Is. ;
at 735. on the Noble Lord's scale, unless be slipped them
down to nothing, would be Ss. How can it be pos-
sible to examine the two scales and not admit that mine is
more favourable to the eonsureer than the duty of Ss., and
'hat inference is drawn by those who ate better judges of
this subject than we are. You are not to judge from the
statements made by the free traeer, but you should examine
j the reports of those who are most conversant with the corn
trade, and they have come to a unanimous conclusion in favour
of my scale. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Coventry
-and much amused I was with his speech-represented those
dealers in corn as innocent doves, easily to be deceived. At
first he says " This will cause great relief to the country, many
holders of foreign corn will not keep it back till a duty camel
to a shilling a quarter, but they will admit it at Ss. and 7s. The
advantages to consumers will be considerable," with the
view that if my Bill became a law I should be doing a great-
deal for the Corn-law. But he says " they will be deluded at
at first, though the time will soon come when they will see
that it is better to keep their corn till the duty comes to a shil-
ling." But this attempt to deprive me and my plan of the
advantages which must result from it, greatly to the relief of
the consumer, shows to what extremities lion. Gentlemen
have been led. I received this morning a letter from Liver-
pool, from one of those unfortunate gentlemen so easy to take
in ; it is dated Liverpool Coin Exchange, Feb lb. it rays
that " the proposed scale must be considered a great change."
Let us take the prices of the old scale, and compare them with
the present. \l'ith the present price of wheat at Liverpool,
61s. lOd., the duty under the old scale would be 2.35. Sd. ;
under my scale it is I Is. On rye the duty is 9s. 6d , under
my scabe it will be 2s. 6d. The duty on beans is 18s. 3d.' under my
scale it will be 6d. On Peaske duty is 16s. 9d. Under my
scale it would be 2s. 6d. ; and oIA American flour the duty at
present. is 15s. sid. per barrel ; under my scale it will be
I3s. 6d. But yon tell me it is of no advantage. It is impos-
sible, when you look to particulars, and when you apply your
judgments to the case, to come to that conclusion. lam new
speaking when prices are high, and I think it is impossible for
any rational man, considering the arguments that have been
adduced, to say that I have been practtsir', a miserable delusion,
and sin giving no advantage whatever. Yon tell me to abandon
the whole thing. You say that all parties are disappointed
and some say it is better to retain the present law"; that is
better hold to the grievance that public indignation may be
directed against it. I think it the wiser policy to improve it.
-(Cheers)-and till you fall back on an Ss. duty, the
N'Lble Lord says -"Do not disturb unless you settle ; the reten-
tion of old customs is, according to Lord Bacon, very unwise."
But the disturbance of old- customs, unless you settle
and arrange amicably, is more unwise still.-(Loud cheers. )
He tried the Bs. (filly last year, and he proposes it now, but
does lie hope to carry it. with satisfaction to the country? If
he does, notwithstandins, that detachment of allies, who lie
upon his left flank to night-(a" laugh )-and who, though they

may vote with him upon the present occasion, do not appear-
to be his very ardent supporters—he seemed to
have shown considerable uneasiness during this dis-
cussion, because they told him that his measure
aided those principles which they advocated; and, under
these circumstances does the Noble. Lord, supposing that, by
dint of a majority, he may carry his fixed duty of Ss., hope it
will be a permanent and satisfactory settlement of the question?
—( Hear, hear, hear.) If the Noble Lord passed a
fixed duty last year, this year, as Minister of the
Crown, he would come forward, glowing with the
light, which had broken in upon him, to propose
another alteration.—(Cheers.) I speak it not in his dispraise,
but I speak to warn him not to be too confident of being able
to maintain a fixed duty of Bs. If prices should rise, in years
of scarcity, you may depend upon it, a pressure would be made
on you, and you would not be able to maintain your fixed duty.
—( Hear, hear. ) I must think that that Corn-law which in-
volves a self-adjusting power, which is able to do without call-
ing in the intervention of Parliament, has a great advan-
tage over that other law which trusts to the exercise
of executive authority ; and, therefore, if the Noble
Lord is dissatisfied with my plan, and if the dis-
turbance of old customs is, according to the sage advice of
Lord Bacon, a very unwise thing unless you settle perma-
nently, the Noble Lord must, I think, abandon his proposi-
tion, and act in confo:mity with that. philosopher's advice,
if he thinks a duty of 8,. will permanently settle the question.
—(Cheers.) I thought it. absolutely necessary to vindicate the
scheme I proposed against some of the imputations—unjust, I
think—which have been cast upon it.—( Hear, hear.) I know
the difficulties of any arguments or statements on such a ques-
tion. lam confident of the difficulties of my situation, and that
when I try to answer your objections by showing that foreign
corn may be introduced with advantage under the
scale I have proposed, I am fortifying the objections of those
who are averse to any change.—( Hear, hear.) if I try to
calm any apprehensions there I see a note taken on the other
side—( laughter)— and if I try to answer any unreasonable
objections from the other side, I am met, not by a hostile
note, but by the intimations and whispers of those who
sit around me. Ido believe that in a mere party sense it may
be wiser to say " We will stand by the Corn-law, we wilt resist
all change." Some say " Amend the averages." The Noble
Lord (Lord Worsley) is one.—(Hear, hear.) He
says all that the Corn-law requires is an amend-
ment of the averages, and, therefore, he opposes
ray measure.—(lle.,r, hear.) But other consiskoralsons
pressed on those who were et arged with the administration of
the affairs of this country.—(Hear, hear.) I stated before—
I repe..t it—that in considering this question, the arrangements
which ought to be made consistently with enlarged and com-
prehensive views, and avoiding thu disturbance of capital in
the investment of agricultural pursuits, looking to the prosperity
and social hapiness of the people, looking to the state of com-
merce, and the advantage. when there may be a deficiency at
home, of having a supply of foreign corn, and introducing
that corn so that there may be the least disturbance of the mo-
netary system, making the greatest approach to regular stealing,
and giving the greatest encouragement consistent with due
protection to agriculture to the interests of manufacturing in-
dustry—having to consider all these things, to weigh them, to
balance their relative and comparative merits—the measure I
say we have determined on is that which we conscientiously
believe upon the whole to be the most consistent with
the general interests of the country.—(Loud cheers.)
We have not conferred with the agriculturists for the purpose of
ensuring their concurrence and support. We have not per-
mitted an abatement in this particular or in that, in order to
insnre the success of our measure: I gave a proof that I was
ready to incur some risk—risk to the Government—by permit-
ting and advising that which I believe to be for the best advan-
tage of the community, and upon this principle we
shall continue to act.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.) We shall
expect, no doubt, violent opposition from some; from others
exaggerated apprehensions. Conscious that we are acting on
a principle which we believe to be right, our hope and confi-
dence is, that when the first storm of passion may have passed
away—when cooler judgment and reason, and the examina-
tion of the documents which we have presented to the Howie
shall have mitigated unjust apprehensions on the part of the
agricultural body that then, though extremes may
not be reconciled, and may continue irreconcilable, yet,
after all, according to the old practice of this country,
reason and moderation will gravitate towards that which is just,
and, supported by that principle, anti by those who, though dif-
fering with ns in degree, may yet think that their present mea-
sure is an improvement, we entertain a confident hope. that we
shall triumph over all obstacles, and have the satisfaction,
without injury to the agricultural interest, and with benefit to
the commercial and manufacturing interest, of amending the
laws which regulate the trade in corn.—(Ministerial cheers. )
Lord PALMERSTON rose amidst loud cries of " Divide,
divide," and " order." Ile said, Sir, at the close of the last session
of Parliament, I ventured to express the apprehensions which I
entertained that the measure winch the Government announced
their intention to propose in the present session of Pat liament
could not satisfy the expectations of the country, if it would be
merely some re-adjustment of the sliding scale, or some change
of the central pivot, and I took the liberty of warning the
Government that such a measure would give satisfaction to
none.—( Hear, from the Opposition benches.) The experience
we have had since Parliament has met has justified the appre-
hensions which 1 entertained, and the warning which I then
gave. After five months' experience—after ransacking the
Continent for information, the Government comes down with
a measure which is as imperfect as the one it seeks to remedy,
and which has been justly described by my Noble Friend
(Lord .1. Russell) in that terse and epigrammatic language, of
which he is so aisle a master, as a measure which disturbsevery-
thing and settles nothing.—(Opposition cheers.) And what has
been the result ? The result has been that whilst on the
one hand the Government have dissatisfied their opponents.
onthes._ot(hoerptititin c,yohayshieedisrcz and discontented
the
ogfres,s,tNobu,l,kfroofmthtehier
friend
Ministerial side,) Sir, the truth of my assertion is to be
found in that. silence with which the lion. Gentlemen in that
(the Ministerial) section of the House received the speech of
the head of the Government the other night.—( Cries of " No"

from the Opposition benches, responded in by cheers from the
Opposition side.) Why the Right Hon. Baronet himself ad.
mitted that. this measure would give almost universal dissatis-
faction. He has described in a lively manlier, within the
litt few minutes the objections with which his measure is met.
—(Cries of " Adjourn," Ordt r, order.") there were two
courses open to the Government to be pursued in this matter.
They might either have taken their stand upon the law as it
if, as they asserted on a former occasion, they thought that this
law was a good one, and that it was illexpedient to alter it. If
they had taken that course, they would, no doubt, have been
supported by a large majority of their party in this House, and
might perhaps have carried their measure, and perhaps it would
have been for the immediate interest of that party if the Govern-
ment had persevered in that course. Another course
was, if they thought that the state of the country required a
change in those laws--if they were desirous of conceding some-
thing to the feelings of the people, by attempting to apply a
remedy to the distress of which the House has heard so much,
they might have come dawn, disregarding all taunts
from those who disapproved of their course, and re-
commended perfect freedom in the trade in corn. Sir,
in such a course they would no doubt have been opposed
by many of those who, at present, support them. There would
have been a temporary secession, perhaps, of their supporters,
but they would have had support from other quarters—
( Laughter)—and would have carried their measure, That
course would have been best for the country, and I beg leave to
say that I think it would have been for the permanent interest
of the Government itself. They have, however, decided otherwise.
It is not given to man, much less to men in office, to please all
parties ; but it has been given to them to displease almost all.
—( Hear, hear.) I have no doubt, Sir, that the measure will
be carried.—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches. )
Silence gives consent, and though none of those gentlemen to
whom I have alluded are found to express their acquiescence,
no doubtthey will be found voting with the Right Hon. Baronet.
-- (Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, lam a(rain.t this scale. lam
against the other scale. Conceding if you will to the Right
lion. Bat oust that the scale which he now proposes is a mi-
tigation in some respects of the scale as it now exists, Still -
is liable to sonic objections which the Right lion. Barone,:
overlooked.—( Hear, hear.) When he states that thise .
offers less scope for speculation and for
ter-
pose of raising the prices, I think he is:inistaken.vai(iiist.ng
hear.) Sir, this scale arrives at the Why, that
point by smaller degrees than the former olnet.o.p.a____ to
very circamstance offers, perhaps, additional unn•
to raise
persons to endeavour, when corn is at aeertat
Varier this scale
gambling for t
it to the price at which the duty
hat vanishes.irthey could but raise
persons who combine would feel_
d that if
little, the duty
the price, and if the price shout
would not be a large one ;
which they would fall back upeane,
if they failed in getting
k
whereas, by the present
„1.,
of
one shilling adds materially
it up to va.niihin croice.
hye top ay. Therefore the Rom,
to the duty which it