The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-30 00:00:00

EDIPERIAI4VLAATMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, July .
Their Lordships Inosabled at Five o'clock.
Mssuispoes frees the Commons brought ill) everal Bills,
which were severally read a bet time, on the motion of the

Earl of DALHOUitIE.
DUALIN AND GALWAY RAILWAY.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented a petition,
signed by the High Sheriff and the Grand Jury of the
county of Galway, in favour of this Bill, and stating that if the
undertaking was not carried out, that great injury would be
inflicted on that part of the county.
The Earl of BESBOROUGH moved that the adjourned
debate on this Bill be resumed. The Noble Earl then pro-
ceeded to draw the attention of their Lordships to the report of
the Committee appointed to inquire into the allegations brought
against the Directors of the Company. It appeared, from
their report, that the Directors had not been in the habit
of inquiring irto the condition of those who applied to
them for shares ; that out of 971 applications, 663 were
granted without any inquiry, and that 29 only were
inquired into. . As he had said, he had no wish to
impede the progtess of the Bill, and in moving for the inquiry
which had been instituted, he bad no other object in view than
that the allegations contained in the petitiee of Mr. Pymm
might be inquired inte by a Committee of their Lord-
ships' House. The report which they made to the
House stated that the allegation that fraud had
been used to obtain the necessary number of signatures to
the subscription contract had been proved before them.
Nene of their Lordships who had read the report could hold
any other opinion than that groat; and systematic frauds had
been committed to a very great extent. In page 9 they would
find that the Company had resorted to the too prevalent prac-
tice of putting the names of respectable and well-kcown indivi-
duals in their prospectus for the purpose of making a show.
If parties allowed their names to be put in the pros-
pectusees of a company, they ought, at least, to
see that its affairs were carried out in a proper manner.
The Noble Lord then proceeded to quote extracts from the
evidence taken before the Select Committee on the peti-
tions, respecting the allegations contained in the peti-
tion of Mr. Pymm, relative to the allotment of shares,
and concluded by declaring his intention to persist in his mo-
tion that the further consideration of the Bill be postponed for
three months.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE admitted that the Noble
Earl had made a very skilful speech, but really if their Lord-
ships looked carefully intuit, they would find that it bore very little
upon the allegations of the petitioners, that the Directors bad
sancctioned the forgery of names to their contract deed. He
could see no reason why their Lordships should attempt to fix
upon this particular Bill the stamp of a character which was
equally applicable to several other Bills that had passed, and
several that were now before the House, because they had
framed regulations which afforded facilities for persons
committing frauds against the directors, against the company,
and if they could, against the public. Neither the f'ioble Lord
nor the evidence said a word which could possibly show that
any man had been induced against his will to sign the contract
deed, or that went to show that any measure, whether directly
or indirectly, had been taken by the directors for that purpose.
Mr. Fym, a gentleman influentially connected with the Dublin
and Kingstown Railway, and interested in the success of the
atmospheric
.principle as well as the Canal Company, thinking
that this project would interfere with his other schemes, found
out a few errors in the Bill. He (the Marquis of Clanricarde)
was most delighted, on public grounds, that their Lordships
had shown an inclination to suppress shameful jobbing and
gambling. They ought to check a system, but nut a particu-
lar Company, and while he hoped the result of the present ex-
posure would be a change in railway government, he was sorry
to see them pouncing on as unfortunate Bill because they scold
not understand the model contract as propounded by the House.
Pym had no right to present that petition, nor that House to
receive it ; he went before Standing Orders' Committee, and
was told he had no locus standi. It was not to be denied that
frauds had been perpetrated, but if he were to tell all the
frauds he was aware of, it would be tedious alike to the House
and himself. It was well known in the market that brokers
kept a black list, containing the names of all those who had
committed frauds. If, therefore, they passed laws which others
could not comprehend, and when the Irish framed a Bill threw
it out for non-compliance with those unintelligible require-
ments, while they admitted others equally culpable, it was a
strong argument for the repeal of the Union, which would not
be neglected elsewhere. He would now state that
a party who had fraudulently bought shares in the
Dublin and Galway Company, to the amount of
1,2501., applied for 2,0001. worth in the Direct Northern
and 2,00:1. in the Shrewsbury and Oswestry Company. A
man called Thomas Constable, who had applied for 1,0001.
worth of shares in the Dublin and Gale ay, solicited 2,500/.
worth in the South Western (Ireland.) Another man
had sought shares in vari iur companies to the amount
of 27.5001., and William Shackel, who had appeared before
both Committees, and had applied for 3,500/. worth of shares
in the Dublin and Galway, solicited shares to the amount of
48,000/. in the Aberdeen, (hornet Valley, Cornwall and other
lioes. Let all those schemes be stopped, let their progress bee
at once arrested; but they let all these great English Bills go
by unobstructed, and when an Irish company, which could not
be supposed capable of finding out every particular, made a slip,
it was pounced upon for condemnation, On referring to the
advertisements of the period—if they looked to the Times
newspaper of the 24th of March in last year—it would be seen
that but four out of forty-nine advertisements for railway shares
required references. In the Times of last week he found
fifty advertisements, and amongst them but two asked for refer-
ences. This model ef a witness, Mr. Mowatt, admitted that
his own Company had allotted shares t, stablemen and
ostlers, and persons of that class. and that he had been deceived
by only 20 applicants. Mr. Mowatt admitted that his Company
only began the system of references when they found that persons
of a suspicious class were applying fo: shares. Now, it would
have been the case with the Dublin and Galway Railway, if
their Lordships had allowed the Bill to proceed, and heard
counsel in support of the Bill. Would they then punish this
Bill, and make an example of it, for the purpose of rooting out
the system, whilst others equally as guilty escaped without cen-
sure ? Such a oottrse would be contrary to justice. With re-
spect to the allegations of giving money to a Mr. Barry to pre-
vent him from laying charges against the Company, he wished
to say a few words. This person, who petitioned in the name of
.Gerrard Barry, could not be found, after lie had presented the
petition, as he was in the habit of going by the name of Barry
Gerrard. This was, no doubt, for the purpose of extortion.—
( Hear, hear.) Such practices were as common as could be.
Parties agreed to take shares in a company by signing the
names of each other, and so deceiving the company, that they
might bring charges against them when before Parliament, or
withdraw them on being paid for doing so. This person had
no doubt found that there were names in the contract deed,
which ought not to be there. Persons of the highest respecta-
bility were in the habit of compromising matters,
in which they knew they were right, rather than incur great ex-
pense and trouble. If, then, the Committee found that there
was sufficient money is the contract deed to carry out the
works, they bad no right to stop them. This might be effected
by a supplementary contract, which he believed was frequently
adopted. Besides, the Dublin and Cashel had volunteered to
subscribe 100,000/. to complete the undertaking, if they would
allow them to carry it out, leaving a considerable sum more
than would be required. Because the parties bad shown them
a bad list which had grown out of their own imperfection, would
they prevent so great a work from being carried out? General
• Burgoyne had stated that such arailway would be of the greatest
advantage to that part of the country. Would they do any
substantial good by stopping this Bill? They would de right
to no one who had been wronged. They would remedy no
flaw in the law, but they would stop one of the most im-
portant works ever undertaken for the benefit of Ireland.
What had they done for public wog ks in Ireland ?
They had made an attempt, and a successful one, to improve
the social, religious, and political condition of the people by
passing measures with respect to education. But the Govern-
ment had not projected any great works for the benefit of that
people. You have done nothing for emieration—you have
done nothing whatever for the benefit of public works in Ire-
land, and now that the capitalists of England and Ireland come
forward and say they will complete a great work which will
employ the population, arid will add to the wealth of the
country and improve it, and come to you and ask simply for
powers to do so, you refuse on the ground I have stated, but
which I bold cannot be maintained.
Earl BATHURST had but a few words to say on the
subject, after what had fallen from the Noble Earl who moved
the motion. Their Lordships would remember that the
Committee had made no report upon the merits of the
scheme. They had only reported that fraud had been
committed and that the directors had been guilty of
great negligence. It was therefore for their Lord-
ships to decide whether the Committee should proceed
further with the inquiry or not. If their Lordships thought
these frauds had been so clearly proved that they ought to be
marked with the strongest disapprobation, their Lordships of
course would not allow the inquiry to be carried on further.
The Earl of WICKLOW had come down with a sincere
hope that he should be convinced, by the arguments of
the Noble Marquis opposite, that their Lordships ought to
allow the Bill to proceed, but he regretted, having heard the
argument of the Noble Marquis, that he frit himself cons
strained to support the motion and resist the amendment.
There was no doubt frauds had been committed in other rail-
ways, but there was none to equal those in the present instance,
and he could not conscientiously do otherwise than support the
original motion.
The Earl of ST. GERMANS said, having been a member of
the Committee appointed to inquire into the allegations of the
petitioners, he could not be ignorant of the fi awls which had
been committed by this company, arid he ahni ,:ted that the mode
adopted by the directors in allotting share' hail been exceedingly
lax and careless. They had, however, filed a supplementary
list in accordance with their Lordidrps standing orders, and he
thought it injudicious for their Lordships to stop the Bill at this
stage. The Committee had not inquired into its merits, nor
could they say whether the parties were or were not competent
lo carry out the undertaking, and until the Committee had made
a report upon that point, their Lordshipa ought to pause
before they postponed the farther proe,ress of the Bill.
Lord BEAUMONT havinual.o served upon the Committee
alluded to by the Noble Lord, wished to any a few words on the
subject before the debate closed. 'lie should feel not the
least hesitation in voting for the motion of the Noble Earl, if
by doingso, he thought he was punishing the pities who corn.
mitted the fraud; but they were not doing so. Theya ey were note
touching them in the slightest degree.—( Hear,) H
could not see why the country should suffer by the rejection of
this Bill ; nor why innocent shareholders should be punished
for the faults of managers who committed themselves
Ta culpable line of conduct with their ees oen.
The truth was, the House of Lords could not allow
this matter to pass away in silence. Some steps must be
taken to prevent similar misconduct, for he believed, as had
been well observed by the Noble Marquis, that if English rail-
way projects were as closely investigated, many cases of the
same, if not of an equally flagrant kind, would be discovered,
He would earnestly recommend the House to acquiesce in the
suggestion of his Noble Friend opposite (Earl Bathurst), and
refer the case again to a Committee. If the Committee found
the contract to be suffieiently valid and bona fide to admit of
the work being carried out, then he would recommend their
Lordships to allow this Bill.
The Duke of CLEVELAND said it would be most im-
portant that the House should ascertain that no frauds existed,
and if they did, projects in which they should be discovered
should be thrown out. He did hope that before the session
. closed the House would come to some resolution to prevent
such practices. It would be of the utmost consequence that
the House should do so.
Lord REDESDALE said he agreed with the Noble Earl
opposite ; and it was his opinion that where acts of fraud were
detected the parties should be punished; for if they were not,
they might as well object to punish pickpockets, if they ac•
septed the exeuse that other pickpockets had committed tt
same offence for which they steed charged the swap day.
Lord MONTEAGLE felt assured that, if the Bill should be
passed, after the discovery of these frauds, the result would be
that other Bills would be attempted to be passed which might
be got up in the same way; but, at the same time, he would
say that the parties to the Bill wore not guilty of any participa-
tion in the fraud, because they might ha .ie been taken in ; but
then, to a certain extent, the parties bad a right. to be punished,
because they should have taken the proper precautions to have
prevented such an occurrence.
The Earl of DEVON felt bound to oppose the motion ; and,
in i• •..' yhe also was as anxious to do jus-
tice as anr et car him ; but, at the same time, he
would be glad to know to wham it was that he was called upon
to do just:ea? He would cardend for it that if it was to be
considered injtastiee so any party, it was injustice to the
Haase ihself He would contest chi' 1t that if this Bill were re-
Patted, on iciurj, to a gait eitent4uld be Wide on thoVo