The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-10 00:00:00

IRELAND.

Mr. COLLETT gave notice, that on the third reading of
he Agricultural and Commercial Bank Bill, he should move
:hat the report of the Committee, and the evidence on which
,t was founded, be printed.
RIGHT OF SEARCH TREATY.

Sir R. PEEL laid on the table the ratification of the treaty
with France for the regulation of the right of search.
Lord PALMERSTON wished to know whether there was
any indisposition on the part of the Government to lay on
the table the evidence which had led to the terms of the treaty.
Sir R. PEEL said that, as that would implicate the state-
ments of some members of her Majesty's Government, he
thought it would be inconvenient.

IRISH BANKING BILL.

Mr. ROSS stateclthathel;Yie;eivedseveral communica-

tions only this morning, which induced him to request the Right
Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government to postpone the
reading of this Bill for a week.
Sir R. PEEL said that he had already given sufficient no-
tice of the third reading of this Bill. Several other important
motions had with it been delayed for a long period, and were
now waiting for decision, so that be could not consent to any
postponement.
Mr. ROSS replied thatthe Right Honourable Baronet had
stated that he was willing to receive suggestions, and as the
communications he had received contained what he thought
were matters for serious consideration, he hoped his request
would be complied with.
Mr. ROCHE said that the Scotch Ranking Bill stood for
the first thing to-night, and it would probably occupy the
House till midnight, so that there was little probability of the
other Bill coming on at all, and that no inconvenience could
possibly arise if the Irish Bill were postponed.
Sir H. PEEL said that the same principle might be applied
to every Bill, and he eould not recognise it on the present
occasion, as it was very desirable that the Bill should be car-
ried through its stages m early as possible.
RIGHT OF SEARCH.

Lord PA LIIMRSTON wished to know whether Govern-
ment had any objection to lay upon the table o 1 the House the
evidence which had been taken before the joint Commission, and
which had induced the two Governments to abandon the right
of search. If Government had no objection to do so it would
prevent ary public inconvenience which might arise from the
want of information on the subject, and enable the
House to judge whether Government had properly or not sus-
pended the exercise cf the right. At all events, they ought
to have that portion of the evidence which related to the right
of search question, and as to whether the right was or was not
necessary for the suppression of slavery. lie wished to know
also, whether the Right Hon. Baronet opposite had any ob-
jection to lay upon the table of the House a continuation of
the correspondence which was produced in 1843, and which re-
lated to the affairs of Syria ?
Sir R. PEEL would have no objection to lay upon the
table the continuation of the correspondence relating to Syria,
but as a considerable time had elapsed since it had taken place,
there might be some portion of it which ought not to be produced.
He would, however, have no objection to produce portions of
the correspondence. With respect to the evidence of the officers
taken before the Commission, relating to the slave
trade, he did not think that any inconvenience
would arise from its not being produced, and the Noble Lord
would see that the instructions given on the subject to the
officers of the two countries were contained in the treaty.
PORTUGAL.

Mr. S. WORTLEY wished to know whether there was
any prospect of a re-opening of the negotiations between the
Government of this country and Portugal, relating to the com-
mercial treaties of the two countries.

Sir R. PEEL replied that no negotiations of any kind were
at present pending between this country and Portugal.
PAROCHIAL SETTLEMENTS BILL.

In answer to a question from Mr. S. CRAWFORD,
Sir J. GRAHAM was understood to say that he would
postpone to a distant day the Parochial Settlement Bill.
SCOTCH BANKS.

On the motion of Sir R. PEEL, the House went into Com-
mittee on the Scotch Banks.

On clause 8 being proposed,
Mr. FOX AIAULE proposed an amendment, to the effect
that the bankers be allowed to amend their returns of circu-
lation.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed the
motion.

Mr. HUME supported the amendment, and protested against
any interference with the Scotch currency.
Sir R. PEEL was much disappointed at the manner in
which the measure had been received. lie certainly had
thought that the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite
would have seen, in his (Sir Robert Peel's) exposition of this
measure, a desire not to alter, but to preserve within safe
limits the system of Scotch banking.
The clause was agreed to.
Clause 9 was then pa.sed.
On clause 10 being proposed,
Mr. HUME objected to it. He understood that the Right
Honourable Baronet had determined not to make any
alteration in the currency of Scotland, and he couid
not therefore allow this clause to piss without opposition.
All he wanted was an explanation of the measure. If it was
good it should meet with his support. The Right Hon. Ba-
ronet had stated that he wanted, in case of an overflow of
paper money, to guard against the Scottish Bank drawing on the

. •
Bank of En-gland.
Sir R. PEEL said that when the notes were convtrtible
into gold there was generally a tendency to issue more paper,
and to continue issuing and increasing the notes. For
a certain limited time the value of the paper would
be favourable ; but when a period of depression should
come it would be incumbent to convert notes
into gold, and the demand must have a tendency to
reduce their circulation. These remarks applied to the Bank
of Scotland, and were also equally applicable to England. The
value of the whole currency would be diminished, and it would
soon be discovered that paper was issued to excess, and with such
a simultaneous demand for gold from Scotland and England upon
the Bank of England, great inconvenience would result, and com-
mercial transactions generally would he greatly restricted and
impeded. It was, therefore, sound policy to ask that some
restrictory prohibitions should be made on the issue of notes.
Mr. WILLIAMS thought, in justice to the measure that
had bean passed last year, the Government were bound not
to afford any greater facilities for the issue of
paper money in Scotland or in Ireland.—( Hear.)
He remembered when the Bill of 1814 was re-enacted in 1826,
after it had been partly, repealed in 1822, so far as regarded the
circulation of one-pound notes, a strong objection existed
amongst the people of England and Scotland. He remem-
bered the threat of the Scotch bankers on that occa-
sion. They said that they had an immense amount of
property in the funds, and they would dispose of that property,
and get the amount in gold, and put the Bank of England in
difficulty. That threat prevented the Government from ex-
tending the issue of 1/. notes in Scotland. It was said
that there were no failures in the Scotch banks. He
remembered several failures. A short time ago,
in consequence of the failure of a bank near Pai,ley, there
existed the most intolerable distress, when the Paisley manu-
facturers were obliged to apply for charity.
Mr. HAWES denied that the Scotch circulation was sus-
tained during the time of the greatest drains by drawing on
the Bank of England.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had a state-
ment in his hand which he would read to the House, and
which would set the point at rest as regarded the pressures of
1833 and 1835. Ihe whole effect of these transactions4cotl was. to
benefit,Al
r.
HAVES
\gvrEe great extent, s
aid tthat
hienblatr3ki)n banking h ion te,,riems tl inwhole
o ~ f
the andScutch
debit in the books of the Bank of England was on account of
foreign credits. The Honourable Member then read a
number of documents relating to the banking trans-
actions between :Scotland and the Bank of England,
which we could not follow with exactness, or even with
perspicuity, in consequence of the rapid and indistinct man-
ner in which such difficult quotations were read.
Mr. FOX MAULS had understood the Chancellor of the
Exchequer to say that Scotch securities to the amount of
3,000,0001. were sold and paid for in gold in the year 1839,
and that this gold was carried into Scotland.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was under-
stood to explain that he had said the gold so received might
have been carried into Scotland under the circumstances.
Mr. MUNI Z considered that if the Bank of England had
suffered any inconvenience by the alleged operation, it was en-
tirely owing to the defective arrangements of that body itself.

Mr HUME considered that the bankers of Scotland should
not be interfered with, with respect to their issues, when there
was no occasion for it.
After a few words from Sir W. CLAY,
Mr. DENNISTOLIN said he was astonished to hear the
remarks which had just fallen from the Hon. Member fur
the Tower Hamlets, for he would just ask what had been the
facts of the case referred to ? The Scotch banks had at one
time been apprehensive of a run, and they got 50,0001. in gold
from England, but from that day to this not a single penis I had
been received from England.
Mr. COLLETT rose to notice a trifling omission which was
perhaps of no great consequence after all. He meant the
omission of the word t‘ silver" in the clause.—( Laughter. )
The clause was then agreed to, as were clauses 10, 11, and 12.
On clause 13 being proposed,
Mr. P. M. STEW ART moved that at the end of the clause
the following words be inserted Provided always, that such
banker shall not be liable in such penalty, unless the aggregate
amount of such monthly circulation of all the bankers in Scot-
land shall exceed the aggregate amount of the average circu-
lation of all the banks in Scotland, to be taken in manner
herein provided." Now he said in conclusion that if the banks
collectively were to work out the contraction and expansion
principle to which the Right Hon. Baronet referred, they must
adopt the amendment. NVith regard to its being practicable, let
it go into the Bill, and he bad no doubt but it would work
satifactorily.
Sir R. PEEL was really afraid of arguing the question any
longer. The Hon. Gentleman talked of the penalty being
tremendous. Now, in case of excessive issue, a bank no doubt
did incur a penalty. Supposing a banker were to issue
100,0001. in notes more than he could pay, there was no
penalty provided against his so doing, there was no penalty
except by a joint a,::tion. It was not possible, it was true, to
prognosticate whether or not such a case might arise. Sup-
posing the emergency should arise that the issue of Scotland
should fall below 3,500,0001. by effecting the union of banksthe
most effectual precaution had been taken for guarding
against any danger arising from suck a diminution: He must
oppose the amendment •as it contained every absurdity that
could be imagined.
Mr. TURNER having spoken a few words,
Mr. STEWART said, the whole circulation was tar same
now in Scotland as was provided for by the prop•sill Bill.
The measure was only intended to restrain speculation arid un-
due circulation. He would say let the Bill be judged of under
all circumstances, - and then a competent opinion could be
formed of it. The Bill had been treated throughout too much
as a banker's Bill, and not a measure for the people of Scotland.
It was right that improper restrictions might be guarded against;
and if his amendment was not received, the Government would
rue it.

Sir R. PEEL said the Hon. Member evidently wished to
give a portion of Scotch bankers an advantage over others,
and he could, by no means, agree to the amendment.
The amendment having been negatived without a division,
the remaining clauses of the Bill were agreed to.
On the motion being put for the Chairman reporting
progress,
Mr. HUME rose and said he wished to have a last word on
the Bill before it went out of Committee. His principal ob-
jection to the Bill was, that it limited the number of banks, and
established one of the worst systems of monopoly. There
ought to be freedom in trade, in n.oney, and cheques, as well as
in corn or anything else, and the Right Hon. Baronet, in his
opinion, was contravening the whole principle he so ably laid
down and explained to the House in 1843.

Sir R. PEEL said the Bill placed no restrictions on the
number of banks. No restrictions whatever were placed upon
banks employing capital in a legitimate way, but the Hon.
Gentleman had formed an erroneous conception of the Bill.
It only restricted the number of banks dealing in paper, and by
such means limited the number of banks dealing in gold.
After a few words from Mr. Hume, Mr. P. Stewart, and
other Hon. Members, the House resumed, when

The CHAIRMAN reported progress:and the report was
ordered to be brought up to-morrow.
THE IRISH BANKING BILL.

On the question being put for the House going into Com-
mittee en this Bill,
Mr. ROSS said it would be his duty to detain the House
for a few minutes before going into Committee. A meeting of
merchants and others had, he said, been held in the Hall of
Commerce in Dublin, where resolutions were passed denouncing
the present till, as being of a mischievous character, and in-
jurious to the best interests of the country. His own objec-
tion to the Bill, and he believed it was an objection very ge-
nerally entertained in Ireland, was to the modtin which the
averages were proposed to be taken. In consequence of most
of the banks in Irelandhaving provincial branches, every banker
would have to make a deposit of 31, for every 11, they might
have in circulation. He regretted that they proposed to
abolish the 30s. notes, which were found most convenient in
the markets of Ireland. By doing so, they would compel
bankers to keep a greater quantity of silver in their
coffers than heretofore, and entail much inconve-
nience upon those in the habit of making their
purchases with these notes. He had been instructed to give
his most strenuous opposition to the measure, and in doing so
he could not but regret that the Irish Members were not in
their places to oppose it. By being in their places they would
be doing their country far greater service than sitting in Con-
ciliation Hall hatching vain empires.—( A laugh.)
Colonel CONOLLY would be glad if some provision were
made for the increase which might occur in the circulation of
Ireland. The circulation of Ireland during the last year
in-
creased one million, which was shown by returns which had
been made to the House. This could not be assigned to
any other cause than the general improvement and cultivation
of the country. He was happy to see this in a country in
which it was proverbial that idleness and poverty prevailed to a
great extent. The exports from two of the most important
ports in the north of Ireland had increased to an incredible
extent. The exports from Dublin had also materially in-
creased. Although no one could admire the principle of the
Bill more than he did, yet he thought the restriction very hard
on local banks which had been encouraged by the improvement
in the trade of the country to increase their circulation. He
concluded by expressing his admiration of the principle of the
Bill and with a hope that the Government would make a pro-
vision for increasing the circulation of the banks in proportion
to the improvements in the commerce and with the derninds
of the country.
Sir R. PEEL wished he could impress upon the represen-
tatives of Ireland the strung conviction which he entertained
that the measure was intimately connected with the growing
prosperity of Ireland, and that no country on the face of the earth
would derive more benefit from a sound system of banking and
a staple system of government.—( Hear, hear.) No country
oa the face of the earth had suffered more from a bad system of
banking than Ireland. From his personal experience he was
satisfied that many of the eases of distress which occurred in
the south and west of Ireland arose from the simultaneous
failure of almost all the banks in those parts of the country,
causing individual cases of heartrending distress as well as
general injury to the country. By the failure of these banks
the Irish Exchange has been so greatly affected that in 180-1
rio less than 50 banks had failed. Since that year many more
had been established, but these all failing the whole community
had been plunged into general and universal distress. Of
these banks four had been established in Dublin, three in Bel..
fast, and one in Bala, but these had all failed he believed
without exception. Of the case of Lord Ffrench's bank he
could say nothing. But there had unquestionably been great
distress about that time, and one of the main causes was the
supposition that inconvertible paper was wealth. It might
have been supposed that the exclusive principle held by the
chief banks of Dublin would have prevented that run on the
provincial banks, but such had not proved to be the case. In
several parts joint-stock banks had been established, and he
believed that on the whole they had been managed with pru-
dence and ability, but their chief source of safety had been
their acknowledged liability of their notes being convertible
into gold, and the consequence had not been as was supposed
the prevention of this course of rendering them convertible
into gold. The conduct of a certain portion of the joint-
stock banks had been to render the system suspicious, and bad
exposed the other banks to a run. And what was the course
of thejoint-stock banks in 1837 ? There was a bank at that time
called the Agricultural Bank of Irelard, which had far exceeded
its amount of gold in its issues, and what was the consequence ?
Not only had that bank failed but there had been very wide
and intense distress, indeed never had he seen such a depth of
distress as had been occasioned by the failure of banks at that
particular period, to the destruction of all confidence, and the
entirb disruption of all ties of property, and an injury to every
other bank in the country. There was at that time another
bank in Ireland, and he believed there still was, called the Pro-
vincial Bank of Ireland, which was, of the highest respecta-
bility, and 11.(1 conducted its operations with great skill and sa-
tisfactionexamined
btoeftohree
apucoblmic.mitTliteeeofsetchreetHaroynosef twhahtetbhaenrk,
ihnadeobneseen_
y
quence of the failure of that banhke,
hthaedrerehpandedbetehnatatnoyeveevril
arising to the other banks, and
one it had caused greatloss. He was further asked whether
Let' particular and
he
repliedt
e
there had been at that time sufficient gold in Irelaiel to meet
thatthe rheequuairdemnennt ttshoefsitihgehtepsutbdhocuhatt
thattha at ttit
t hue
er eh
largerwas un :so%
te s tei of n a b
speciel y,
of
no r h tahne had
dy
than
been
anthey
actuallyobliged
required,
keep a
e d,
fmrom the apprehension of a run, and the sum was increased so
as to greatly exceed the amount of their issues. The necessity
had arisen from no'requirement of unusual business, but solely
from the feverish state of excitement, and the excess was only
wanted to meet that feeling. When asked whether he could
tell whether that gold was in the country or whe-
ther it had been brought from England, he re-
plied that certainly there had been a considerable
quantity in the hands of the bankers in Ireland, but that a
very great portion of it had been brought from England, and
that for the purposes of the run it had all been brought from
England. When asked whether it was brought from Lon-
don, he replied, from London and other places ; a great part
from London, but some also from Liverpool and Bristol. The
whole of it, he believed, originally came from the Bank of
England, and he thought that not only the Provincial Bank,
hut also all the other banks in Ireland, had been compelled
to pursue this course, in consequence of the conduct of the
Agricultural Bank, who, though they professed to meet all
ex
their issues in gold, had used every expedient to get their notes
into circulation. When asked as to what amount he conceived this
increase had been made, he replied, certainly not less than
when
it agawina,s to meet itwas inquiredeettheextra or..
r
whether
dinary amount of issues, he replied that there was no doubt of
the fact that it was simply for the protection of the banks.
this w°'aes° usually
u a in
lly gross.
kept, And
or whether Now was it right that such a sum as 2,000,00 a shouldtr
have to be kept for meeting an emergency arising from no
real call, but only to save the inconvenience they could not
controul, and to asoid a disadvantage for which they were in
no way responsible. He thought, therefore, that it would be
no small benefit to the country to give a check on this un-
limited issue. It would also be something to give relief from the
state of painful suspense and excessive anxiety which such a
system must inevitably occasion. The Hon. Member (Col.
Conolly) said that the object of this measure was to reduce the
amount of the circulating medium just at the time when the
increase of trade and commerce required its expansion, but he
( Sir Robert Peel) thought that this restriction on these issues,
and the obligation to pay in gold, would be to enable the banks
to extend their issues, as they would be freed from those
liabilities to which they were now subject. An increased con-
fidence would pervade the country, and less expense would be
incurred in the obtaining and keeping gold. He had also been
accused of bringing this measure forward prematurely. but he
thought that this charge was, at least, entirely without founda-
tion, for when he brought forward hie motions respecting
the banks in England last year, he had distinctly given
notice that he intended to deal this year with the
banks of Scotland and Ireland, and he thought that
during the interval there had been ample time for considera-
tion of the banks. When he had brought forward that mea-
sure lie might with equal justice have included the banks of
the other two countries. Exactly twelve weeks before he
had made his speech introducing that measure, he had given
notice to the bankers of England of the nature of his intended
project, and no difficulty had been experienced either by the
banks or in the country. He had been told, also, that he had
dealt unfairly with the banks of Scotland and Ireland, as he
had taken the average of one only thirteen weeks, and the
In his opinion Ireland gained the ad-
other twelve months.
thought that the protection would greatest for Ireland, he
be
f hie ealculations—
vantage ; but as there was a 'difference, though he himself
would take the larger sum as the s o
would give theprivilege of
months. In addition to this he w
..
he prescribed distance of sixty-four miles,
( Hear, hear)—and he would. give bas=he average of the twelve
issuing notes within t •
boundaryline, provided the issue
• By that privilege all banks having
was based on specie.
which had hitherto formed the
more than six partners were excluded from not only circulating
notes, but also from having any houses of agency, or conduct-
ing any transactions in their own name in Dublin, where they
would interfere with the notes circulated by the Bank of

land. This was a great boon, be conceived, to the people of
Ireland, and he thought it might be safely granted. In Scot-
land the banks kept but little gold. Indeed, he might say,
that the business was done in that country upon gold. He was
free to confess that as vet no loss had been suffered by the
country or the banks, but yet it was unsound in principle that
there should be no requirement of having assets to meet the
claims made upon them. Practically, he might say, there had
been no gold kept in Scotland. In Ireland, he believed, the
banks had conducted their business most creditably, and had
always a large amount of specie to meet their circulation. He
believed that in the Bank of Ireland there was at least
400,000/., and at Belfast there bad been banks inferior to
no existing banks in Ireland for the soundness of the
system, and proving the excellence of the principle
of always obliging banks to meet their issues with gold,
and he believed that the establishment of this principle would
have the effect of increasing the issues rather than contracting
them. The banks would not be obliged to keep so great an
amount of gold as they would otherwise require. They would
not have so great a stake in the risk of the country. He be-
lieved that, owing to the branches of the Bank of Ireland, they
were obliged to keep 'BOO,OOO/. at the head-office, and the
Provincial Bank of Ireland kept a proportionate amount. In
addition to this, they were obliged to keep a quantity of stock
both at the head-office of the Bank of Ireland and also at the
Provincial Bank. For the relief which this 8.11 would give
them from the competition, and thus enable them to extend
their issues accordingly, all he asked was, that a provision
should be made to the full amount of the issues, and this was all
the restriction he required—a restriction equally required
by the safety of the country, and the convenience of the banks
themselves. That was the position which he took, and he
believed it to be a sound one, and he should resist every at-
tempt to change it. With respect to the two periods which
had been named, during which he had assumed the averages,
one commenced twelve weeks before the 27th of April, and
the other embraced twelve months before that time. This
appeared at first sight a little unlavourable to Ireland ; but he
would do away with this, and take the same period with re-
spect to Ireland as he had taken with respect to Scotland,
and increase the amount of circulation which that
would have made it in the first instance. He
thought that, by this measure, he was conferring a great boon
upon, Ireland, and he hoped that it would be so received
in that country. He hoped that the Irish Members in that
House would not stoop to any minute criticism, but that they
would take the measure as a whole. had intended to assi-
milate the position of England, Scotland, and Ireland, and he
had done so as far as circumstances would allow. He believed
that it would prove a great means for the extension and im-
provement of commerce and agriculture, and would, at the
same time, have the effect of adding a beneficial security which
they had never hitherto enjoyed, and that the banks themselves
would, in the course of anotker year, allow that the measure
had been productive of all the utility which he had anticipated.
Mr. ROCHE said that the Right Hon. Baronet had en-
deavoured to make out a case by showing the mischievous ten-
dency of the present system, and by carrying them back to
that period of horror ; but the state of things at the time the
fifty banks had failed had been entirely altered. He
had also pointed them to the period of 1837,
when the Agricultural Bank of Ireland had failed,
but he had omitted to inform the House that the public had
net suffered anything from that failure. The question was not
as to either the extent of the circulation or not, but whether
they were to have one Government bank of issue. As to the
whole question of tike circulation, for that he was not compe-
tent; but the question he had to consider was, what right had
the Right Hon. Baronet to interfere with the currency of Ire-
land at all? The Right Hon. Baronet had alloWed that the
banks of Ireland had been stable—that, to use his own words,
they were most respectable, and had conducted their opera-
tions with great prudence and ability, and that only six of them
bad failed. What pretence, then, was there for interfering
with them? Could he assert that there bad been any excess
of paper issue ? Could he prove that the business had not been
properly managed ? The Honourable Member for Coventry
(Mr. Williams) had stated that the systems of banking
in Scotland and England ought to be assimilated,
but he had at the same time allowed that the increase of
trade and commerce required an increase of the circulating
medium. What were they doing at this time ? They had
allowed that it was necessary that for the prosperity of the
country, railroads and all the other national improvements
should be introduced, but how was this to be effected without
an increase at the same time in the circulating medium ?
Why should they take with one hand, what they gave with the
other ? There were two banks in Dublin, the 'Royal Bank of
Ireland, and the Hibernian Bank, which were located in
Dublin, which all allowed to have conducted their business
in a most creditable manner, and to have paid reasonable
dividends according to the amount of their capital, and yet
which were allowed on all hands to be unable to become
banks of issue. He thought that these banks ought to enjoy
the advantage of the enlarged issue, without the
restrictions which the Right Honourable Baronet imposed.
But it was not his intention to offer any impediment to
the Bill going into Committee, as the object which he should
oppose would come before them in the clauses, and when these
were before them he should certainly move amendments on
several of tbem, as he thought the measure would thereby be
rendered more agreeable to the feelings and interests of the
people of Ireland.
Mr. VVA DDINGTON said that he thought the measure
would require much to render it palatable for those for whom
it was intended. He thought that Ireland ought to be put on
a par with Scotland, which he thought to be of great impor-
tance in the present rising, thriving, and promising condition
of Ireland. When they were applying the principle of these
tw) Bills to Ireland they ought to keep in mind the peculiar
cirmaistances of each country.
Sir R. FERGUSON complained that in the limits chosen
by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, he had cut down exces-
sively the circulation of the Irish banks ; whereas he had given
to the Scotch banks all the advantage of their own statements.
The limitation of the circulation would operate materially to
the repression of industry, and to the injury of the general
interests of the country. The Hon. Gentleman then went
into numerous statements of monetary items, upon which he
founded his opposition to the Bill.
Lord CLEIIENTS hoped that the House would not sup-
port such partial and injurious legislation as was attempted in
this Bill. _ _

Me. S. CRAWFORD said that the object of the Bill was
to assimilate Ireland to England, in monetary matters. Eng-
lead was in a h:gh state of prosperity, and did not require the
aid of bank notes to stimulate its industry. Ireland was in a
very different position, and he objected altogether to the pro-
posed restriction. He had no objection to place a wholesome
restriction upon the issue of bank paper ; but he thought this
measure would go to the extent of restricting the circulation
below the wants of the people. He would reserve to a future
occasion what more he had to say upon this subject.
Mr. WYSE had no objection to a careful restriction of the
issue of bank notes. But he thought that Ireland, with a po-
pulation of 8,000,000, and a circulation of 7,000,0001., should
hare, at least, as large a number of banks of issue as Scotland,
which had a population of only two millions and a half.
'the House then went into Committee upon the Bill.
On the reading of clause 1,
Sir WM. SOMERVILLE rose to move, pursuant to no-
tice, a series of amendments, of which the following was the
first and principal, and that to which he first applied himself :
" And whereas there have existed in the city of Dublin, for a
series of years now last past, and still exist therein, two Joint
Stoct Companies trading as bankers, one known as the Hiber-
nian Joint Stock Banking Company, and the other known as
the Royal Bank of Dublin, but which said two Banking Com-
panies being united in covenants or partnership exceeding the
number of six persons, and residing and having their establish-
ments or houses of business within the distance of fifty miles
of Dublin, were not, before the passing of the said Act of the
seventh and eighth year of the reign of her Majesty, nor are
they now, entitled to borrow, owe, or take up any sum or
sums of money on their bills or notes payable on
demand, or to make and issue such bills or notes accord-
ingly payable on demand: And whereas said two Joint-
Stock Banking Companies. on the 6th day of May,
one thousand eight hundred and forty-tour, were there-
fore not lawfully (or at all) issuing their own bank notes,
and it would be of injury to said Joint-stock Banking Com-
panies if the power of becoming banks of issue was withheld
from them respectively when extended to several banks to
trade hereafter as banks of issue within the City of Dublin and
sixty-four miles thereof; and it is therefore expedient that
the said two Joint-stock Banking Companies should be autho-
rised by law to become banks of issue in Ireland, as if the r had
been banks of issue on the sixth day of May, one thousand
eight hundred and forty-four, anything contained in said re-
cited Act, passed in the seventh and eighth year of the reign
of her present Majesty, to the contrary in anywise notwith-
standing." In support of this paragraph of Ms resolution he
went into a history of the banks to which it refers, and
quoted largely from the Parliamentary evidence relating
to the operations of the Bank of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.)
He then referred to the establishment of the Belfast Banking
Company, the Northern Banking Company, and other joint-
otock banks in Ireland, with their branches. This state of
things, continued the Hon. Baronet, caused the Bank of Ire-
land to establish branches also, and, in 1825, it established
twenty-three branches, but of these, six only were within the
described circle of sixty-four miles, affording accommodation
to a population of 1,300,000, the richest and most flourishing
portion of the people of Ireland, while, outside the circle, there
were no less than 131 branches. A great deal had been said about
the Scotch system, but the case which he detailed to the House
in reference to the Bank of Ireland, would, he considered,
make it abundantly apparent that there was no analogy what-
ever between the system in the two countries. The Scotch
bankers never had a monopoly to contend with, as they had in
Ireland, and, therefore, he did not see how Hon. Members
could refer to them in proof of the proposals of joint-
stock banking in that country. He should like to
lonow what effect it would have if the Hon. Baronet
would introduce an Act to confer a monopoly on any bank
within sixty-four miles of London ? Would he not have an
oppo.itioo from the bankers and merchants of London that
-a6uld quickly defeat such an attempt? The shares of the
banks to which his clause referred, and which had suffered so
much by this monopoly, had fallen 15 per cent. And he con-
sidered that these two banks had a stronger claim than any
other banks of Ireland to the benefit of any advantages which
were intended to be conferred upon the banking system of
Ireland. He would rather throw himself, however, upon the
Right Hon. Baronet than upon the Scotch Members of the
House, whose assistance he expected, with the hope of pro-
curing that modification of the clause which was the object of
his amendment. The Hon. Baronet concluded by moving the
following amendment :—" That in clause 1, and line 5, after
the word' thereof,' shall be inserted, and also so much of the
said recited Act of 7ch and Bth of her present Majesty as pro-
hibits, after the passing of that Act, any other person than a
banker, who on the 6th day of May, 1844, was lawfully issuing
his own bank-notes in any part of the Vnited Kingdom, as far
as same may be held to include in its enactment said
ithernian Joint-stock Company and said Royal Bank."
The Han. Baronet h
had been
establiah_edad distinctly proved that joint-stock banks
favourable than any in Ireland, under circumstances more un-
had realised a liberal remunerating
concern in that country, and which
The circulation did
interest on the capital in-
vested.llettrdi
tynot f
tdependrade i
in
upon
general.the issuelt w
Lao f
notes, but upon the r
proposed to repeal theleognsdrizent of last session, and which
applied to the whole kingdom, preliminary to the passing of
the present Act, and in the restrictionsas contained in that mea-
sure both England and Scotland were included ; but the Hon.
wheeTption for two banks
Baronet asks us to make a particular
whether it would be exile_
Ireland. It should be considered
theset. two banks to
client, under the circumstances, to admitt
the particular privilege of issuing notes to
less than 900,0001., in addition to the other a-dvatamonotilgnets otfhne no
possessed. The Hon. Gentleman did not seem
that though there were no other joint-stock banks irier!inwbaline'
there existed private bankers, to whom a circulation of note;
was desirable, and alto possessed as good a claim to the consi-
deratifen of the House of Commons as those two banks.
Those banks had established themselves entirely under the fos-
tering care of the Hank of Ireland, and an excellent profit
bad resulted on all their transactions. When the Hon. Gen-
tleman told the House that the banks had suffered great losses,
owing to the depreciation of their shares, and time ought
to be given them on that account. He would reply, that all
the banks in Ireland, included within the circle, had suffered
to a certain degree a depreciation in their shares. The Bank
of England had felt the effects of depreciation, on the occa-
sion of the discussion of last year. The shares had fallen from
207 to 204. The shares of the Hibernian Bank had also
fallen from 37 to 3li. It was urged, because these two joint-
stock banks had suffered a greater depreciation, as contra-dis-
tinguished from the Royal yank, that they had a claim to re-
lied. The Royal Bank and other banks had fallen in a limited
degree, but not to so great an extent as would give any cause
for alarm, when the measure should come into operation. If

those two banks were conducted on the same principle of pru-
dence that had hitherto characterised their proceedings, there
would be no doubt of a successful result, an' great advantages
would generally result to the country. Those banks had carried OR
their operations by borrowing notes from the Bank of Ireland,
and they would have greater advantages under the present
measure, as the provincial banks would be brought within the
circle. The measure would effect, in a like degree all the
banks in the United Kingdom. He could not give the Hon.
Baronet any hope of his acquiescence in the amendment pro-
posed to the House, for he did not believe it was founded
in justice or in policy.
Mr. REDINGTON contended that the argument held out
by the Right Hon. Gentleman, that equal laws and equal
' rights, as regarded the banking system in England and Ire-
land, although very plausible, was not correct. For his part
he would wish the monopoly of the Bank of Ireland entirely
destroyed and a great impulse would be given to the com-
mercial interests of Ireland.

The O'CONOR DON begged to assure the Right Hon.
Gentleman that there was no measure that would give greater
dissatisfaction to the people of Ireland than the present measure.
Sir ROBERT PEEL desired only to promote the perma-
nent interests of Ireland. There was apparently a misunder-
standing as respected the intention of the Bill ; it was intended
solely to prohibit the issue of notes to those banks that had not
been authorized by the measure of last year. In the case of
the Scottish banks, there were several of them who had obtained
their capital, had issued their advertisements, and had even gone
so far as to print their notes, and who had pleaded their entire
ignorance of the law which the Administration intended to put
in force, and yet had been prohibited from issuing their notes.
This was a harder case than that of the two joint-stock banks
in Ireland, which had never possessed the privilege of issuing.,
notes, and which, without possessing that privilege, had suc-
ceeded in realizing very large profits. It was now endeavoured
to exempt these banks from the influence of the present law ;
but it was quite impossible to acquiesce in the proposition of the
Hon. Baronet to except these two banks from the effect of
the law. . .

Mr. WYSE argued that the arrangement was adverse, not
only to the existing banks in Ireland, but it would seriously
limit the circulation in Ireland ; indeed, so much so, as to be
highly injurious to the whole of the people. It appeared to
him not only to be unwise, but an act of great injustice to
assimilate the banks of Ireland with those of Scotland.
Mr. C. WOOD did not agree with his Hon. Friend, who
looked upon the measure as another act of injustice towards
Ireland. On the contrary, he thought it would be a boon to
the country, and he was somewhat surprised to hear any
Honourable Member connected with Ireland oppose it.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD thought nothing could be more un-
conciliatory than resisting the wishes of the Irish Members,
who were almost unanimous. It was politic for the Govern-
ment to accede to the wishes of those Members, for they re-
presented the feelings of the Irish people. He would support
the amendment.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE said the cases of analogy between
Ireland and Scotland did not hold. They were now going to
interfere with the trade of banking in Ireland by subjecting
them to great competition. He believed there was a scene of
prosperity opening in Ireland, of which no man could calculate
the extent, and he hoped it would net be blasted by any re-
strictive measures. The monopoly of the Bank of Ireland he
considered the most odious of all monopolies, and should resist
such monopoly to the utmost, and divide the Committee upon
the present motion.
After a few words from 111 r. COLLET,
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority against it —6o
The clauses up to 7 were then agreed to.

On clause 8 being put,
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL proposed to omit in line 8, "one
year," and to insert " six months ;" in line 9, " first day of
April," and to insert " 25th day of March."
After some conversation—
Mr. ROCHE considered that nothing could be more reason-
able than the amendment of the Hon. Member for Kerry.
Mr. ROSS expressed himself satisfied with the clause as it
stood.

Sir ROBERT PEEL said, with regard to the restriction
imposed upon the currency, it was done to ensure the perma-
nent welfare of Ireland. It was his firm impression that it
would operate to ensure the prosperity of the country.
Mr. FRENCH complained of the way in which the averages
had been taken. They were taken at the same time as that
for the Bank of England in 1844, whereas they ought to have
been taken in 184.5. This had a material effect on the amount
of the circulation.

After a few words from Mr. WILLIAMS,
Sir R. FERGUSON said that neither Ireland nor Scotland
were at all satisfied, and he was surprised to see English Mem-
bers getting up and saying again and again that this measure
was far more favourable to them than to England.—( Hear,
hear.) He was quite astonished that English Members would
stand up and tell them that they knew their own affairs better
than they did themselves.—( Hear, hear.) Instead of being
able to issue as much paper as they were able to do before, it
would oblige them to contract their issues.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL would take the liberty of con-
curring in the rebuke which had been just admtnistered by the
Hon. Member for Londonderry to those worthy friends of
theirs who knew their affairs so much better than they did
themselves. He thought, however, that the Member for
Cork had taken the matter too much to heart.
For his own part he was so much accustomed
to be in a minority that he thought nothing of it.
He would not, however, press his amendment to a division, as
he had little hopes of carrying it, and he did so the more
readily as he had one to bring forward of far greater im-
portance. He would therefore withdraw his amendment.
The Hon. Member then moved' to omit all words after the
words " at the" to the word " of," and to substitute the
words " several offices or places." It might be answered him
that the principle had been applied to England and Scotland
without complaint, but measures that were applicable to one
might be destructive to another country.
Mr. HAWES considered the complaints of the Irish Mem-
bers groundless, The conduct of the Government in the in-
troduction and progress of this Bill had been liberal in the ex-
treme towards Ireland, and indulgences were extended towards
that country which were neither observable towards England
or Scotland. Still, believing the present clause might pos-
sibly be injurious to trade, he hoped the Right Hon. Baronet
would re-consider the subject.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER narrowed the
discussion to the simple question, whether the Bill would give
to Ireland such an expansion of the currency as was necessary
to meet the demand of increasing trade and circulation. The
bankers of Ireland had 1,100,0001. available for general pur-
poses, 800,0001 of which was kept at the branches, and
300,0001. at the head-office ; and while the circulation of the
Bank of England was 3,000,0001. he considered that the sum
he had named would be an ample margin for increased
currency.
Mr. M. O'FERRALL regretted that the Government
would not adopt the amendment, and strongly advised them to
do so.
Mr. S. WORTLEY considered that if a certain amount of
issue were allotted to each bank, there would be no difficulty in
dividing it proportionably between the different branches.
After some remarks from Mr. Ross, Mr. Warburton, Mr.
Redington, and other Hon. Members,
Sir R. PEEL said that he preferred the Irish banking
system to the Scottish, because in Ireland they made their
payments at the branch banks, not at the bead office, and that,
he considered, afforded a greater security. If he could adopt
the amendment, leaving full security to the holders of notes, he
should be very glad to do so.
The clause was agreed to without a division.
Clauses up to clause 13 were then passed.
On the proposition of the 14th clause, which would do away
with the fractional notes in Ireland,
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said that he hoped that the clause
might, if it could be done, be postponed.
Sir R. PEEL thought it could not, with any consideration
of the public convenience, be delayed; and he hoped Hon. Mem-
bers would not offer any unnecessary impediment to the Bill.
Sir D. NORRs.YS said that this would be a great interfe-
rence with the usages of the country.
Sir R. PEEL thought that if they had fractional notes of
ss. and lOs , they would prevent the circulation of the silver;
and the same argument applied to a 255. note as a ss. note.
He had a very strong impression, that if they were to allow the
253. note, they would prevent the circulatiod of silver. So
long as they had the notes they would not have the silver.
REDINGTON said that the Right Hon. Bart. had
always expressed a respect for the feelings of the country ;
but when the time came he invariably found some reason for
throwing these feelings overboard ; and if there was to be an
abolition of the small notes, they might have the 30s. note.
Mr. M. O'FERRALL suggested that they might pursue
the medium plan, and abolish the small notes, and retain the
30s. notes.
Mr. C. WOOD advocated the abolition of the small notes,
on the ground that from the evidence laid before the Commit-
tee, it was clear that the small notes superseded the use of
silver specie, which was kept at great inconvenience in the
provincial banks, and the Bank of Ireland, and had in many
cases to be reshipped, because it could not be used in the
country.
Colonel RAWDON apprehended that much inconvenience
would arise from the passing of this clause. It often hap-
pened that people found it very difficult, in their small deal-
ings, to get change of these notes, and therefore the silver cir-
culation would be much more useful.
Lord BERNARD believed that the abolition of the 30s.
notes would be of the greatest benefit to the country, and there
fore he cordially agreed in the proposition.
Clauses 14, 15, and 16, were then read and agreed to, as
were also clauses 17, 18, 19, and 20, with some verbal
amendments.
Clauses 21 to 32 were agreed to, with some verbal amend-
mendments, and ordered to stand part of the Bill.
The House then resumed. The Chairman reported progress,
and the report was ordered to be received on Thursday.
PRIVILEGE. _ _ _

The SERJEANT-AT-ARMS appeared at the bar, and in-
formed the House that in the action of " Howard v. Gossett,"
execution was levied on Saturday for 4361.
Sir R. PEEL moved that the communication just made to
the House by the Serjeant-at-Arms, be referred to the COIR.
mittee on Privilege.—Agreed to.
The standing orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at one o'clock.