The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-08 00:00:00

materially affect the regulations of the excellent Act
drawn up by the Noble Lord, for the protection of the
deep sea fisheries belonging to this country ; and,
in fact, petitions were pouring in every day from
the fishers all along the cosst of Normandy against
the regulations of the English Act, for the French
people complained of being restricted to a limit
of three miles, within which they could not encroach
towards the English coast, and that therefore they were
unable to catch the herrings beyond that limit. It
was true that no alteration had been made
in the English Act passed in 1843 ; but the
French people complained of it as an evil requiring
a 'remedy, and that remedy he found had been
proposed by a very active member of the Chamber of
Deputies, and addressed to M. Guizot. In fact, the
French Government had been bullied and badgered
upon the subject ; and he held in his hand an
extract from one of the petitions sent in, which
he would read. (The Hon. and Gallant Member then
read the extract, in French, amidst loud and continued
laughter from all parts of the House.) He said the
meaning of the petition was, that French fishermen
complained of the restrictions of the English Act.
What had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet would,
Sowever, allay the apprehensions entertained by our
own subjects.
Sir R. PEEL thought it would be unwise for him to
enter into the question any further—it was not for them
to canvass the debates on petitions which were presented
in the French Chamber. The fisheries between the two
countries were regulated by convention. There had been
no change in the convention, and no change was in con-
templation.

SCOTCH AND IRISH BANKS.
Mr. BOUVERIE put a question to the Right Hon.
Baronet (Sir R. Peel), which was but imperfectly heard
in the gallery, but which we understood to be, when
the question of the Scotch and Irish banks would be
brought under the notice of the House, and what the
nature of the measure would be ?
Sir R. PEEL said that from the press of other and more
important business he could not name the particular
period at which he would bring the subject under the
consideration of the House.
Mr. HUME said it would be desirable that the Right
Hon. Baronet should mention the nature of the measure.
Mr. ELLICE said it was extremely desirable that in
a matter of so much importance the Scotch people
should be made aware of the objects and nature of the
proposed change.
Mr. FOX MAULE said, that if no explanation were
given by the Government, he would, when the measure
was brought forward, consider himself at liberty to give
it all the opposition in his power.
MEDICAL BILLS.
In reply to a question from Mr. HAWES,
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he did not think it
would be possible for him to bring forward the Medical
Bills that night, and therefore he should at once propose
to take them upon that day week.
EXCISE ACTS.
The House then went into Committee on the Excise
Acts.

power of answering any objections that might be raised
by-Hon. Members. •
Mr. HAWES said that the Right Hon. the Chancellor
of the Exchequer had said that he intended to levy a
duty of la upon auctioneers, in lieu of several duties to
which they were at the present liable. Perhaps the
Right Hon. Gentleman was not aware that, in several
parts of the country, it was the custom for one of the
partners to take out an auction licence. He wished to
know whether, by this arrangement, it would be impe-
rative upon three partners in a firm to take out the li-
cence, which, in such a case, would be a gain to Go-
vernment of 45/. instead of 15/.
The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that a member of a firm, on behalf of the firm, would
not be obliged to take out more than one licence for a
particular sale. Every individual who sold by auction
was liable to pay auction duty.
In answer to a question from Mr. ROSS,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated
that there would be some exception to the Bill—excep-
tions which at present existed, such as auctions at the
Court of Requests in Scotland for small sums—auction
duty would not, of course in such cases be enforced.
The house then went into Committtee, whereupon
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
the repeal of the auction duty.
Mr. G. BANKES, in accordance with his motion, said
he would take the sense of the House on the subject.
Ile did not think he was called upon to show that
no good would be effect' d by the removal of the tax—
that would ensue from the remission of that tax ; but
what he was called, upon to prove was that greater good
would result from the application of the surplus revenue
to other purposes then those proposed by the Govern-
ment. There were other burdens which would affect the
agricultural interest, and which were in the contempla-
tioa of the Government. For instance, the new :nee-
:etre for the regulation of Justices Clerk?, and the Paro-
chial Settlement Bill, both of which would be thrown on
the county rates. It was not denied that great distress
existed in the agricultural districts, and yet those addi-
tional burdens were about to be thrown upon it. With
respect to the first measure, he would not deny that
there was a great deal of injustice in the present
system of fees to justices clerks, and he would further
say that he thought the great measure was based on a
sound and useful principle, but what he did say was that
when these fresh burdens were about to be thrown on an
already much depressed class of persons, they should
share the benefit of some of the relief which the financial
state of the country allowed the Government to propose.
Another measure was the Parochial Settlement Bill—
that, he could not but consider, as a most unwise
and impolitic measure, and one which would
have the effect of materially increasing the al-
ready enormous amount of the county rates.
He would give it all the opposition in his power.
Another great burden on the late-payers would be the
establishment of lunatic asylums. Even the "smoke"
measure of the lion. Member for Leamington, and the
proposed museums,
would entail expense on the agri-
culturists—the payment of inspectors and officers would
fall upon the rate-payers. The lion. Member then read
a letter from the board of guardians at Dorchester, in
which the burden of poor-rates was complained of, as
pressing with great severity on persons of the humbler
class, some of whom, though proprietors of small patches
of ground, were not earning more than ss. a-week. He
thought the charges of gaolers, and expenses after con-
viction, were burdens of which the public ought
to bear a fair proportion. He thought, also, that
on this question he might reasonably expect to have
the support of the Gentlemen in the House who
avowed themselves to be connected with the Ants-Corn-
law League. Those Gentlemen declared, and he believed
with truth, that they were not disposed to injure the
agriculturists ; and they were aware that with the in-
terests of the latter class, their own were to a great ex-
tent woven up.—(Hear.) They admitted that they were
dependant to a great extent upon the prosperity of the
home market. To show this, he (Mr. G. Bankes) would
read an extract from the last trade circular of Manches-
ter, which ran to the effect, that in the beginning of the
previous month, the trade of that town had been in a
prosperous condition, but that there bad since been a
considerable falling off', in consequence of the depressed
state of the agricultural districts. He trusted, therefore,
that for their own interest, if not from a higher
motive, the manufacturing gentlemen in the House
would give him their assistance.—(Hear.) He had
heard with regret his Right lion. Friend the Secretary
of State say, that the county accounts were kept very
inaccurately. But he would call the attention of the
Hon. Member for Montrose—(A laugh)—to those a :-
counts, and he would be happy to receive any sugges-
tion from him how to improve the mode of keeping
them. He had now offered to the consideration of the
Rouse a proposition for suspending the remission of a
duty which yielded about 300,000/. But there would
be other funds at the disposal of the Right lion, Gen-
tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and if his
Right Hon. Friend kept this money in his pocket for
the present, the next time he put his hands there he
would find some more in it, which could be applied to a
further relief of the county-rates. He did not ask for
the relief upon the ground of distress or destitution, but
he claimed it on the ground that the aviculturists
were fully entitled teat, after so many bonuses had
been given to other elitsMS who were less in want of it.
But the repeal of the auction-duties was no boon to any
one. He had received letters from a vast number of
auctioneers in all parts of' the country, stating that they
would bee-some said almost—others entirely—reined,
as their business would not enable them to pay the
increased duty of 151. for their licenses. His 'Right
lion.-Friend said that the remission of the auction-
duties was a boon to the agriculturist; beceuse they
would be allowed to sell stock by auction of their pre-
mises. And was it a boon to the agriculturists ti take
elf the duty on the sale of imported corn, flour, and malt?
The report of Sir Henry Parnell, recommending the
abolition of the auction duties, was only part of a grand
scheme which that financier had in his head to abolish
the Excise altop;ether. He would show, however, that
it was the opinion of that great statesman Lord North,
who introduced this impost in the first instance, that
there were reasons more important than mere considera-
tions of finance, which induced hint to propose the auc-
tion duty ; amongst which some of the most important
were, that great increase of auctions led to great inter-
ference with fair trade, and gave rise to much fraud and
cheating.—(The Hon. Gentleman then read an ex-
tract from the speech of Lord North, recommending
the importance of the auction duties on those grounds.)—
His Right lion. Friend will see that when there wag,
no duty there were frauds. There were then auctioneers
who made groat fortunes. The auctioneers what de-
scried this measure were men of high character and dis-
tinction, but if their humble brethren Lad no right to
consideration on their part, they had, a right to the con-
sideration of her Majesty's Minie'cers'; 300,000 persons
were a portion of her Majesty's subjects who were worth
considering. They would find every one of these
against the measure, who 'would then pay 15/. instead
of 301. This would be free result of that measure which
would as he had stelld gratify persons of considerable
means and of Mgh rank and station in life, but who
would not require their pecuniary aid, and would injure
a large and inestimable body of men and would not do
any benefit to the agriculturist. His Right Hon. Friend
in his arguments said that taxes were obnoxious because
there were so many objections. He did not see the
force of that argument. He seemed also to urge
that it was objectionable on account of the amount
of trouble which •it gave ; he would ask his
lion. Friend to read the report over again. It was quite
clear that if those duties belonged to the Customs, in-
stead of the Excise, all these evils which were objected
to would be remedied. With respect to the sale of
landed estates, they were not sold generally in this man-
ner, though auction was sometimes made use of, to as-
eertain the prices of them. It would be easy to exempt
landed estates from the duty, and to substitute in its
stead a stamp duty, which would secure the pay-
ment of the duty, without any complaint or any diffie
culty. There were remedies there pointed out which
were not acted upon, because it was desirable that the
Excise should be done away with altogether. He thought
that a great many would be injured by the proposal
which was made. He would venture to hope that his
Hon. Friend would think it worth the re-consideration
of the Government ; and for the purpose of giving them
time to re-consider it, he would take the sense of the
House upon it.
Mr. XL GIBSON said that he differed from some of
the remarks of his Honourable Friend. The Honour-
able Gentleman came forward asking for relief to
the agricultural interests of the country, ne
called the proposal a small one, and also a
modest one. What was the agricultural interest? Was it
the interest of the labourer, the farmer, or the landed
proprietor? If he meant the agricultural labourer, he was
at a loss to understand how any remission of local t -
tion can benefit him. His distress is a chronnweicsesudolifstioe issd.,
tahned
oitfhaenr3e•tahsiengin, hceonisseaciushenacdee beeftttehretheahneahp d
e n
asn-oeunitdorpeplrieevsesiotnhethearlig agricultural
ulnadbeoru,rehres
wfrooumidtgohe
permanent
dt
uctoiredsiaellsy,tteuyt towteerlel,hitmhethettetunbtyryle,avvete'nigc
twhieth
auctionhi nnos
benefit by it, and that it would bettor the agricultural I
labourer, was urging
him to have a doubt of the Hon.
Gentleman's infallibility. 'With regard to the farmers,
he himself was an agriculturist and a justice of the peace,
and he ought to know something about the county-rates.
Ile knew when bodies were asked for the representation
of their interest for the levying of these rates that it was
often said that they did not pay the county-rates, that
the county-rate came out of the rent. If the Hon. Gen-
tleman took the trouble to read the report on local taxa-
tion, •
tion, he would find that the Commissioners told them that
the poor-rates, county-rates, and rates for lunatic asylums,
all these burdens were merely portions of the rent inter-
cepted befere it found its way from the pocket of the
tenant to the pocket of the owner of land. What be-
nefit could it bo to him ? With regard to the third
class, the landed proprietor, he would make it his own
case. When the Hon. Gentleman came forward and
asked them to take off a tax which put money into the
pockets of the landed proprietors, lie must say that it
was not a modest proposal. lie would tell them that
when this proposal to benefit the farmer, by adding to
the rents, was understood, it would throw discredit ma
the heads of the landed proprietors, to which class he
himself belonged. They imposed a larger portion of •
those county rates on the town populations than
they did on the landed proprietors. But lie would not
enter into that matter, as it did not form part of the dia.,
cussion. lle attributed that movement of the lion.
Gentleman to a pressure from without that he could not
withstand. They had heard the other day of
Honourable Gentinsen allowing the " grease and lard"
slipping ti." ;sugh their fingers, He supposed now they
..sre tryieg to recover some of what they had already
lost
t the farmers would They would not
Ma-
jesty's Government was
be-
lieve that the lion. Gentlemanfinedottiia also at the head of this
movement. He believed that the
at the head of' her
Hon Gentlemen were
now suffering from having tampered with their country
bonstituencies—of having premised what they never in-
tended to carry out. Ile read passages in a speech of