The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY" 20, 1845.

the Boston Union the board of guardians had refused to
comply with the orders of that' House. As far as the
Poor-law Commissioners were concerned they had done
all in their power to enforce the orders of that House.
It had, however, been found impossible to compel com-
pliance, and it would, therefore, be for the House to
take some steps upon it. He (Sir James Graham)
had always eondemned the practice of crushing bones
by manual labour, but objectionable as the practice Has
admitted to be, it did not come within the operation of
the law.

In answer to a question from Mr. BARNABY,
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said it was his intention on
an early day to ask leave to bring in a Bill to settle the
law with respect to orders of magistrates in bastardy
cases. This Bill had been rendered necessary by a
recent decision of a Learned Judge, who had held that
the orders of magistrates were at present illegal.
rI'ALIAN REFUGEES.

Sir CHARLES NAPIER wished to put a question
to the Right Hon. Bat onet opposite with respect to a
statement which he had made the other night regarding
the two sons of Admiral Bandiera, and twenty other in-
dividuals. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated that in
the expedition in which these individuals had been en-
gaged, the Governor of the lonian Islands and the Go-
vernment at home had been taken by surprise. Ile
wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether any re-
port was made to the Government at home of the cir-
cumstances, and whether any instructions were given
by the Home Government to the Governor of
the lonian Islands us to bow he was to act ? lie
wished to know whether any instructions had been
given by the Governor of these islands to prevent them
from landing. if Lord Seaton had acted a humane part,
instead of sending a communication to the Neapolitan
Gceernmefit, he should have sent the steamer to acquaint
those twenty-two unfortunate individuals and apprise
them of their danger. He wished to know whether the
Governor had represented to the two Bandiera,. and
twenty others that they had communicated with the
Government what he knew of their intentions ?
Sir R. PEEL said he had stated all he knew of this
matter the previous evening; but, for the satisfaction of
the Gallant Officer, he would endeavour to answer his
question. No communication had been made by Lord
Seaton to the Neapolitan Goverment, respecting the in-
tended landing of these 22 individuals until after they
had sailed. He did not recollect that Lord Seaton had
made any communication to the British Government of
the arrival of these individuals to the British Govern-
ment on the Friday after their departure. Lord Seaton
stated to the Neapolitan officer that one of the Ban-
deira had arrived in the lonian Islands in the month of
February ; that be then went to Malta and subse
quently returned to the lonian Islands, and then he had
conducted himself there in a manner not to excite any
suspicion whatever ; that on the 12th, when they sailed,
the Governor did not suspect their intentions, because

they left unarmed. On the 13th the Consuls applied to
Lord Seaton fur an armed steamer to apprehend these
people. The Consuls that applied to him were the Aus-
trian Consul, the Russian Consul, and the Consul fur
the Papal States.
An HON. MEMBER (on the Opposition side of the
House)—The Neapolitan Consul.
Sir R. PEEL—WeII, I am stating to the best of m)
retollection, sod if I be incorrect, I will state to-
morrow evening in what respect I am so. I have not,
now the papers by me. Lord Seaton distinctly stated,
when remonstrated with, that he considered those
reports very much exaggerated, and that he
could not think that it was the intention of
those people to land on the coast of Calabria.
Sir C. NAPIER said that what he wished to know
was, whether Lord Seaton had communicated to the
13andieras, after he had received the remonstrances of
the Consuls, so as to warn them of the danger which
they were incurring by atempting to land on the coast
of Calabria?
Sir R. PEEL said that about ten o'clock in the even-
ing of the 12th of June the Bandieras had sailed from
Corfu, and that Lord Seaton had not previously had the
least conception that it was their intention to sail from
the island. On the 13th the Consuls had made their re-
presentations alluded to. The Ilon. and Gallant Officer
.skesl if Lord Seaton had made any communication to
the Bandieras. Now, it was impossible that he could
have made any communication to them before they
sailed, because he had entertained no suspicion whatever
of their intention to leave the island. If the Hon. and
Gallant Officer intended to ask whether Lord Seaton
had sent a boat after them to make a communication to
them on the subject, the reply was, that most cer-
tainly Lord Seaton had not.
Lord J. RUSSELL observed that the statement of the
Right Hon. Baronet was, that twenty of these indivi-
duals had sailed in two boats from the island of Corfu.
Now, it had been stated in the public newspapers that
a letter had been written by one of the Bandieras the
day before his death, in which he stated that the per-
son on horseback, who accompanied them from the
island of Corfu, was the person who had betrayed them
to the Neapolitan Government. Now he asked if that
person had held any communication either with Lord
Seaton, or with any person in connexion with the Bri-
tish Government, on that subject?
Sir R. PEEL would state to the Noble Lord to-mor-
row. Re would have been perfectly willing to state to
the Noble Lord to-day if he had had notice of the ques-
tion. Perhaps the Noble Lord would be kind enough to
repeat the question to-morrow.
Mr. MONCKTON MILNES asked if there was any
objection to lay b. fore the House some portion of the
papers connected with this subject.—(Cries of •• All all,"
and cheers.)
.It was a matter that had created an in •
tense interest throughout the country, and the country
would not be satisfied without further information.
Sir R. PEEL was not aware whether or not the corre-
spondence contained matters which would render it in.
expedient to produce the whole of it. He had no
objection whatever to lay before the House the
substance of it, but it could not be expected that he
could pledge himself to produce the whole of the corre-
spondence v ithout having carefully perused the dispatches
of Lord Seaton. He thought the House would content
to give him time to answer the question ; but he would
at once state that no communication had been made
from the British Government to the Neapolitan
Government, and that no communication had been
received from Lord Seaton respecting the Bandieras,
until after they had sailed. The firtt communication
from a foreign Power, which the British Government
had received on the subject, was a letter from Vienna,
dated the 26th of July, containing a remonstrance
against our having permitted that expedition.
On receiving that intimation they called upon Lord
Seaton for a further report, and they received from him
two letters exactly in conformity with what had been
stated.
Mr. S. W. HOPE said he might also state, from hav-
ing been in possession of the correspondence, that the
Government had 'received no notice whatever, and on
further search lie had not been able to find any, of the
arrival of the Bandieras in the lonian Islands ;
the cnly notice of their being there was an
application from the Austrian Government to have them
aelivered up as deserters from the Austrian naval ser-
vice, which thi re was no power or wish on the part of
the Government to do.
Mr. 'l'. DUNCOMBE—Did the Austrian Government
give you any notice of the Bandieras being in Corfu ?
Mr. HOPE said the Government received no notice
whatever.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE—Why, it was in Mazzini's
letters !—(Great laughter.)
Mr. S CRAWFORD asked if was the intention of
the Government to bring in this session a measure on the
subject of the law of landlord and tenant in Ireland. Ile
would give notice of the question for Monday next, if it
would suit the convenienceof the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Sir R. PEEL said the evidence taken by the Landlord
and Tenant Commission was being prepared with every
expedition, and before he answered the question of the
Hon. Gentleman on the part of the Government, it
would be necessary that he should see that evidence.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD had no wish to press the Right
Hon. Gentleman, alid he would postpone his question to
a future day in consequence of what had fallen from
him.

the propriety of making some, such attempts as that I most gracious Majesty to grant to that College the , by the report on the division, that they had not, to use a nau- I
made by the Honourable Member ' near him. Any 1 Charter which received the sign manual of the Crown on I tical term, gone "bout ship" but had recorded their votes in
I
person who inspected the magnificent works of his I the 14th day of September, 1843. favour of this motion.— (Laughter.) He would say it was
esteemed friend, Mr. Marshall of Leeds, might see Mr. HUSIE moved for a Select Committee to inquire .. o"
e
e,roupd, of common justice that this motion had been in-
how efficiently this nuisance might' be abated. The I into the state and manlier merit of the lighthouses, flees- trialueed to this H use. The lion. Member for Duttgat von
House would do well to apply itself to get rid of what i ing lights, buoys, and beacons, under the charge
Hou
e to deal with the proposition in accordance
. had appealed to the consideration of the House, and asked the
s
must be allowed to be a great nuisance, not merely with I and management of the Corporation of Trinity House
regard to taste or appearance, but with regard to its of Deptford Stroud, of the Commissioners of would appear that the Honourable A.,
be b
Member contended ''i'ih
it
injurious effects on the health of the inhabitants of the Northern Lighthouses, of the Corporation for preserv- with* the spirit of the Art of Uniloen
manufacturing districts.-(Hear, hear.) - ing and improving the Port of Dublin, and of all
that if this tax were imposed, there would be a breach of faith
.i
and good understanding; but he (Sir J. Tyrrell) would con-
Mr. P. BORTHWICK said that the Hon. Gentleman lights, buoys, and beacons, iu the hands of any tend for it that there were very few Members of the Hou is
opposite said that scientific and practical men should other corporation, public body, or private individuals who would take that view of this proposition. T.'pon a former
be examined before any Bill was brought in on the snb- whomsoever ; also into the amount of the gross and the occasion, when Mr. Bankes made a similar proposition to that
ject. Now, the fact was, that scientific and practical net revenue, the expenses of managing the same, and the Ht.,ase, he called upon the clerk at the table to read the seventh
men had been examined before the Committee, and their appropriation thereof ; also, itito the authorities wider clause of the Act of Union, and the argument then used by
opinion was that the nuisance of smoke could be abated, which the respective dues are collected and applied ; I.ll;aet gentleman would have completely upset the arguments of
and that it might be effected without any considerable also, to inquire into the circumstances attending the pur- the Hon. Member for Dutigarvon, and would not have left
and that it might be effiscted without any considerable also, to inquire into the circumstances attending the pur- h
all o
len .g tIIOI esmt a bocd, r
oft:
—D(trAn glaartiv
gohn , )
a n
Butd w o t
11
ed eHootn .
h aßvaerolneef tt
loss to the manufacturers:—(Hear, hear ) That chase of private lighthouses, and the state of the at the head of her Majesty's Government had said ti.at it would
being the case, and no witness having come before amount of these purchases ; also, to ascertain all the be unjust to impose the income-tax upon Ireland. Now, he
the Committee to show that it was impossible to annihi- changes or improvements that have been made (Sir John Tyrrell) held in his hand a report of the sentiments
late the nuisance, he thought the House ought not to in lighthouses, &c.. and the extent of relief which has rf the Hon. Baronet, uttered upon this subject in 1833, when
throw any impedient in the way of his Hon. Friend's been afforded by reduction or alteration of dues in the he said that Ireland should nut be exempt from any such iin-
Bill, but should allow it to be committed, averse as any one
United Kingdom since 1834 ; and how far the recom- poesatr,.)as sHucehosairmeja.siTuyerrwelooulwdssbeasemxturealn.ely unjust.—(Hear,
Mr. HAWES said as this was the second time the mendation of the Select Committee on lighthouses in h
Bill was brought before the House, he wished to ask the 1834 have been carried out. also, to consider whether to any unjust taxation of Ireland ; but in the present pro-
Noble Lord at the head .of the Woods and Forests, any and what alterations can be made in the amount position it was intended to deal only w.th the rich per plc of
whether the Government had formed any opinion upon of the light and other dues, and into the management thatea peered
ici country.—(Hear, ntry 7 Itiheear,Hohusaer. )
upon
nrotmhis thesl
subject, he
ethiaiatd alio-
:s*t in
the subject ? The question was one of importance, and of the same, for the relief of the shipping of the country.
one in which the manufacturers and manufacturing die - Mr. LIDDELL said it was not his intention to raise liesirtation) exist
nxisay that those eAo now occuuleie.d, seats en the
'treasury benches, g as well as those on thel other side, who
tricts weredeeply interested.—(Hear, hear.) Before legis- any discussion on the motion of the lion. Gentlemsn, the held ecamnissions in the army, were too much in the habit •f
lating on the subject, they, ought to inquire whether it Member for Montrose, but he begged to remind him that regarding their places as faiiiils-seats, and all were too often
were practicable at allto annihilate the nuisance; and if so the Committee which sat on the subject, of which found on the same side of the House. Yes, he would say
whether the Bill proposed by •the Hon. Gentleman was the Hon. Member for London was the Chairman, had again, that Hon. Members on the Ministerial side were too
calculated to effect that object—(Hear, hear.) Ile not allowed this matter to escape them. He did not see often to be found joining Hon. :Members on the Opposition side
agreed with his Hon. Friend, the Member for Durham, that the lion. Gentleman could obtain any further in- on the voluntary principle—(Laughter)—while those on the
that the Bill was impracticable in its present state, and formation than was to be found in the report of that Opposition side were to be equally often found supporting the
Right Hoe. Baronet on the compulsory principle.—( Great
if entertained at all should be referred to a Select Cum- Committee. laughter.) He had been led to understand that even now
mittee. Mr. HUME said, that he read both the report to there was a negotiation going on far a conciliation measure
Lord LINCOLN said that the attention of the Go- which the Honourable Gentleman at uded, and also with Ireland, between the Noble Lord the Member for London
vernment had been turned 'to the subject. lie had him- the report of the Committee on Shipwrecks, both and some of the pposition eierrbers.--( Laughter. ) Now, if
self consulted upon it several practical gentlemen. and he of which alluded incidentally to the subject. But the papers were in a sufficiently forward state, he would move
agreed with the Ilon. Gentleman who spoke last, that the object which he (Mr. Hume) had in view was a that they be laid upon the table of the House.—(Laughter. )
they had now to consider two points—was it practicable financial one, and neither of those Committees di- He bad heard much of justice to Ireland ; but he would say
to abate the nuisance? And was the Bill before the House rested its attention to this view of the subject. that, if this proposition was not carried, there would not be
adapted to the purpose ? As to the first question, he The Motisn was then agreed to. justice done to that country in pecuniary matters.—( Laughter.)
thought it was possible' to abate the nuisance.—(hear.) POST-OFFICE ESPIONAGE. If this were not carried, what was meant by the often-repeated
phrase of " Ilereditary bondsmen don't know."—( Shouts
But he was at the same time disposed to think with the Oa the motion of Mr. I'. DLTNCONIBE the order cf
of laughter.) He was not for taxing the lower orders of the
Hon. Member for Durham, that the Bill would not be the day for the adjourned debate on the Post-office in- Irish people ; but if the income-tax were imposed upon the
effective.—(Hear.) The subject was one of great corn- quiry was read. - - landlords of that country, he could not agree that the result
mercial importance. He was , inclined to think, under Ilr.-MONCKTON MILNES rose, and was would not be an outbreak in that country, because those who
the circumstances he had stated, it was impossible they • [LEFT SPEAKING.] . had to pay it were bound to keep the peace by the best possible
could allow this Bill to proceed. security—namely, the preservation of their own interests.—
Mr. MARK PHILLIPS thought the Hon. Gentleman qesCituat. Cow.—ln the Court of Exchequer, water- ( Hear, hear.) He had now nearly concluded ; but be-
forehad anticipated the acquiescence of the manufacturing
ibiai, day,zi.trt thei t titieeer ~aacs sittingstarrangeditdn i:fartese fb defendant
iirati Trinity
,ittl)i.e cave of on. ft 1 Dunneeiiihaen ft]
re. ipulirtoilfrpn,egr,3tsyi should-be o. tplikttli :lib; ei
Dunne,
th haere ; hen a
nte(!spiwderhas,ob.alrehrepseeehmeohpeed, before the close of this de-
interest in introducing this Bill.' In the borough he hadHonourable
Hon.ourbll‘efemtleerm
for
rr D
urnegpal
the honour to represent, the Corporation possessed powerof till:
and that the defendant is to —(Loud
to make experiments to suppress the smoke nuisance. pay I,sool.—Dublin Evettinc7lllViised, laughter.) There was to be a remission of taxyrevsnnttoo•
Trio power was given to them by a Bill introduced into a large amount, in Ireland, on sugar and on glass ; and, there-
that House last session by his - Hon. Friend the Member
IMPERIAL PARLIAMEN T. fore, if there were not an equivalent imposed, he could tell the
House that great discontent would be created, for the commer-
for Durham •, but he was notsaware whether the regula-
tions of the Corporation had yet come into farce. Ile did HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 19. cial interests of this country were crawlingly alive to such con-
not intend to oppose the measure of the Hon. Gentleman INCOME-TAX.
Mr. ROEBUCK (in continuation from our Third Edition duct.—( Loud laughter.)
Mr. WILLIAMS had listened with attention to the speech
of last night) said—lf they pointed to the stamp duty, of the Hon Member for Dungarvon, but he regretted to say he
opposite ; but lie would suggest, whether it would not be
better to postpone the Bill until the results of these ex- he would- say change it, because se-it was a tax which fell upo had heard no arguments adduced in it which convinced him
periments were made known.
with his measure. During hear.) Mark how they
the actual capital of the country. He said, then, charge it by that this tax should not be imposed on the landlords of Ireland.
Mr. BECKETT thought -the Hon. Menber was per- all means, and place it non
fectly justified in proceedingHe (Mr. Wiliiams) did think that any landlord in Ireland,
had
eLlanddealoitrdws
io:fh.lrelTa'nhde.—po(wHereaor,f
whether he had 1,00111.,
ior 10,000/ ,or 20,000/. a-year, should
the recess, tho gentlemen of Leeds had several meetings governing the country had been conceded to them. Within pay this tax as welt as the tractesnien in England, A kin hail telly
leili. a-year profit by their trade. Now the proposition he
on this subject, and he took the opportunity of attending the last few years a large portion of the tithes of the country
( A. r. Williams) would make was, that those persons in Ireland
them. Most of those gentlemen appeared favourable to had been given to them, and every man who bought an estate
who received their incomes out of the public money, should pay
why
legislative enactments for the suppression of the smoke now bought with it soars of the tithes of the cuuntry.
nuisance, and he repeated the Hon. Gentleman was should they not be taxed, then, in the same way as the knowtliis tax,
i"tineelLi as they did in England. He should like to
perfectly justified in proceeding with his measure.— lrhdlords and hard-working citizens of England?—(Hear.)
20, 7. ay ear ofo the public money,
I srheloatinldd,nwotho retcheiisvteadxaboHuet
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Experiments had been tien tehnimsniiiiercoi2atl ihntetrhest: inalitli,athriHheo,usehwere. askedh t
as t o
well sane-
call
would likewisey wish to know why they Chief SecretaryPa of Ireland
made by several manufacturers, and he could it, as it wasP, thatywoerdm) offered them, ewhnilteg they were also did not pay this tax? That officer had 500/. a-year more than the
state that the results had been most satisfactory. called upon to bear with the extra tax upon income, Secretary of State for the Home Department, and not half so
In conclusion, he would only observe that what had in order to reieve the landlords of Ireland. much to do, and yet he had not this tax to pay. Neither was
it paid by the judges of Ireland, who received air agi2regate
taken place in Leeds 'afforded great encouragement to Now, mark well, his point was not with any class
sum of 150,000/. a-sear of the public money. He had before him
the people of the town, and the results were expected to in Ireland, but the untaxed landlords of that country.
documents by whlich
.to prove that in fifteen years, between 1821
be such as would lead to very satisfactory regulations. ihe Irish landlord paid no assessed taxes ; he
Mr. MUNTZ said, it would but very ill become him came now to this country—to this city, and brought
}.oars, only remaen.vtiiaritdeeonntllyt one-twelfth of the taxes ;in fifteen
to offer any objection to this Bill, considering that his horses and carriages, and lived here in lodgings,
tears, while while in the Tar 1844, thein !Ye yea: s, only one-six-
had lived in the midst :of smoke all his life.— ithned yet he was not called on to pay taxes for them ; while. if
Ireland did not exceed 4,0,7061 ,
ettindouEnnt
loatif
dtaxae.sd,poi,
the
ye
(Laughter.) But this he would tell the llouse, that in hor(sileihreßshneoublek) wished tof erasiet.his tnafiurmhitteires)byTkrieepfitnighat
same year, 51,000,000 e He thought that great injustice had
some trades smoke might be got rid id, while in others Hon. GentlemarPranyeaarxelisimn(add—res(sin it.—(Laughter.)
Shell) migght been done to Ireland ; but he would contend for it that in the
it would be perfectly impossible. For instance, it would keep his three horses and a carriage hgere if he chose, and item of taxes that country had been most remarkably pro-
be ruinous to the iron trade to do so, and therefore the live in lodgings, and pay no taxes for them, while he tested. It was well known that one-third of the Crown
patronage in this country had bo en bestowed on Ireland—
House ought to be very • careful as to what Bill (Mr. Roebuck), if he kept but one horse, down came
(Cries of " eO, no") --and therefore, if the Right Hon.
they should introduce before they legislated upon this the tax-gatherer. (Loud laughter.) Those Irish
subject. In the Bill formerly' proposed, it was intended landlords, those lords of thousands, came to London, travelled
tßairoteniet
ddidhenotlgive good reasons for not extending this tax
to appoint insprctors to inquire the extent of the rui- to Paris —Brussels—the Nile, came back again, lived here, .n.
ereawne, . (i Ir. Williams) would persevere in his motion.
sauce ; but he would say that if the nuisance was so small but—no taxes—(Laughter)—while if he (111 r. Roebuck) left in
were levier; t‘m.haineitt
cost
of import on which small duties
as to require inspectors, it could not be called a nuisance his home and took a little recreation elsewhere, there was his
not worth while to retsatinsctrhmuchainththe collection. that it was
failinghoose ready to be seized by the iron grasp of the never. at the sai time that theeoluoisds
at all.—(Hear, and a laugh.) But let the House under- of time and the vexation whichem th
tax-gatherer, whether he (Mr. Rebuck) was there -(collectioniear occasionedhear
stand this, 'that it was useless to expect to get rid of only be known to the importers.— , .) If the
or not.—(Laughter ) Then let the House look at the la-
smoke without an increase of the expense of fuel. He bours of the •of this country, though his Customs' duties on fifty articles were repealed, the sacrifice of
hod tried many experiments, and hail always found this earnings were
professional
the result manof
hard
toil, who,
yet had to revenue would not be more than half amillion.—( Hear, hear. )
Taking the cost of colic ction of the stamp duties, the income-
to be the result. The great difficulty that all masters pay a tax upon income.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member *
tax the assessed taxes, and the window-tax, it amounted
found was to make their men attentive. concluded by proposing his amendment, which was to the effect '
only to 4311,000!., and that was for the collection of
Mr. GILL said that both experience and reason that the property-tax be extended to Irelend. 16 850' OWL
.or about one-fourth of the whole revenue. If
taught him that there must be a considerable saving its Mr. SHELL said he would commence by saying to the allt the taxes were collected at the same rate, the cost would
fuel by the consumption of smoke. Hon. Member who had just sat down, that though he had
be only 1,600,000/. for the collection of 59 000 000/ that
„ ~ so
Mr. Alderman COPELAND said there was an appa- done him the honour of paying him a compliment in the
a vast amount could be saved by • • •
allusion. he had made, he regretted he could reasiThgattheea.revenue from
ratus at present in operation at all the dockyards of the other sources than the vexatious tax e under the
not reciprocate the compliment.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.")
country by which smoke was consumed. head of Customs and Ex • eise. At the same time, he admitted
His Hon. Friend had adverted to the absence of many Irish re- tI at no one
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.could find fault with the reductions which the
presentatives from the United Parliament. Now, he (Mr. •
PENAL ENACTMENTS AFFECTING ROMAN Shell)felt with his •
great sympathy
CATHOLICS. he had not thought it judicious or consistent with his duty to that he had made more, and chosen other articles. Now, he
insist say that there
Mr. WATSON rose to bring in a Bill for a further his own constituents to follow their example.—( Loud cheers.) • t ataneeef a
burden
nwsas not in the whole history of taxation an
so heavy imposed upon the same amount
repeal of the enactments imposing pains and penalties At the same time he should be very sorry to impugn their mo- ofl population as now presi!eed upon the people of Great Bri-
upon her Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects on account tives, felt their case was this, that Ireland was not adequately
fain. —(Hear, hear.) We now in the thirtieth
of their religion. He expressed a hope, that if the Go- represented. The case they made was, that the county .of
year of peace, and the taxation was as heavy as at the
height of
vernment should permit • this Bill to be introduced Cork returned only five Members, whereas the principalities the war. The Right Hon. Barone
—it opposite (Sir J. Graham)
the discussion upon it would be taken on the second- Is‘fi Wales, with a smaller population, returned thirty-three
had written a boo( A lk—
augh)n which he proved, that,
reading. The Bill was similar in its operation to the embers. Many large towns had no representatives at all, • •
taking into account the state of the currency, although the
whereas every insignificant town in England, with 2,000 tuba-.• '
one which was introduced into the House of Lords last nominal amount of the taxation in the year 1813 (the most
bitants returned two Members. They that they had not
said
session, on the same subject, by Lord Beaumont. the benefit'
of English institutions. But his Hon. Friend
expensive of the war), was 81,000,000!., it was really equal
(Mr. Roebuck) was willing to give them the benefit of such
The measure had received the sanction of the Lord only to 52,000,000!. He could see no reason for the increase
Chancellor, and the principal law authorities of the House English institutions as the same- Church, the same income- of the naval expenditure, which was to be greater in this year
of Lords. He did not imagine that there could be any tax, but not the same registration or eP resentation. They of profound peace than it was in 1841, when we had 26 ships
objection to the principle of the Bill, and the details of said that they had tried for fourteen yearsr
since the Reform of the line at sea.—( Hear) He did not, however, object to
it could be more advantageously discussed in Com. 1311, to obtain justice.—( Hear, hear.) They despaired of keeping the navy which was the best defence of the country,
but he objected altogether to the proposed increase of the
P
mittee than on the present occasion. He was er- success. They were overwhelmed by the majority of English
fectly prepared to go into the subject, if the House and Scotch Members, and they thought it better te try the almY'. The average amount of the army in 10 years, when the
Whigs were in office (and they had enough to do with war in
wished him to do so.—(Cries of " Move, move.") But pressure out of doors.—(Cheers.) Nut by force, but by a
China and other places on their hands), was 105,059, but now
he thought he should' be better consulting the convent- gentle kind of violence.—(Cheers and laughter.) They
in profound peace it was to be 129,000 men, with an increase
nietee of the House by contenting himself with thought that by these means, more effectually than by their
simply besides of 2,500 marines, and 10,000 armed pensioners.—
moving for leave to bring in the Bill. presence in Parliament, they might induce that power and the
( Hear, hear. ) He trusted that when the Right Hon. Baronet
Sir ROBERT INGLIS wished to hear Governmenta to give them the benefit of English institutions.
came to the estimates he would. be prepared either to satisfy
some state- --(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Kendal wished the
rnents with regard to the objects ofthe House of a necessity for the increase, or to make a consider-
the Bill, and . income-tax to be erpetuated, and the Hon. Member for Bath
in the absence of such statements, it able reduction.—(Hear.) When the present amendment was
was impossible wished it to be infinite—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—so that
for him to vote for the affirmative of the question. between them they would have it a divine tax.—(Laughter.) disposed of, he should move that the tax upon income he ex-
ile begged to state deliberately, that at present he could He ( Mr. Sheil) did venture, between Tuesday morning and tended to salaries in Ireland.
Mr. ROSS would not at present go into a discussion of all
form nu opinion whatever upon the subject of the Bill Wednesdayevening, to refer to the speech of the Hon. Member
the questions which the Hon. Gentleman had introduced.
for he did not know to what penalties the Roman Ca-, for Bath, and he did think that that speech contained some
But he would say that his proposition for extending the income-
tholics were exposed :or from what it was proposed to moat admirable admonitions. That speech was said to be
tax to Ireland had so much the appearance of justice that he
relieve them. He should, like to hear the statement of imbued with some of the spirit of a distinguished individual
(Mr. Ross) might probably feel it his duty to vote
the Hon. Member before he decided u 1). pon the subject, ject, •
formerly a Member of that House, and he did believe that, on a
with the Honourable Gentleman if it came to a di-
review of the efforts of that great man, that this to which his oh- . .
and for that reason he would sugthe ' of gest propriety servation had been directed was the most important, if
the debate being adjourned.he would only say that, if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
very best. It exhibited that gr alld the fulanseshseoftchis
were placed in the situation of the Right Hon. Baronet, he
Sir J. GRAHAM (who addressed the House amidst power, as comprehensive and eatnradarilnia
great confusion, which rendered him at times inaudahle) bright in imagination and brilliantaee in idea.jn
rtheentHon. Mem"! would not have ventured to bring forward his present proposi-
tion.—(" Hear, hear," from Sir R. Peel.) There were con-
expressed a wish that he - had had an opportunity of ber had drawn from such a source, he had drawn with advan-
sideratioris of policy which, in some cases, must weigh against
speaking to the Hon. Gentleman on the subject before tape ; and he did tuspeet that he observed something of the
?ripteroposition which had abstract justice in its favour.—( Hear.)
he had addressed the House: The measure was only a spirit of his original in those forcible addresses which he had present position of Ireland was so very peculiar, that the
part of a larger measure which had received the heard in that House when the Hon. Member was warning the income-tax could not be applied to that
country, and he
sanction of of the other liduse of Parliament.—(Hear, Government of the day not to interefere with the rights of the
retted exceedingly the
colonies, and when in estimating their supplies he emphaticallysentimentsoi
theaddressed .by the Hon.
hear, and cheers.) The subject,: however, was one Member for Bath to the landlords sister. kingdom. They
which had been under the consideration of the rcevenues
tehtemeannotntiafor a
whatNow,inomen moment to awttaesnitttoee lay
sheantdhe s onH the
were at all times ready to subscribe to agricultural and medical
Commissioners for the Consolidation of the Criminal 11Ieisber was now pursuing He we., attemptlirig to indtoice institutions for the relief of the deserving poor. He thought
Law. To that commission, there had recently the Government to violate the very principle of which he him- then it would be injurious at this period oo extend the 'tog:me-
been added Sir Edward Bryce, Mr. Richards, self had, but a • few years ago, been such an able lax to Ireland, anal he trusted that, hereafter. this debate
and Mr. Amos, who , had just return ed from India. advocate. No such plan as the Hon. Member might lead Hon. Gentlemen to entertain sympathetic views
towards helmet. He entreated them not to turn their hearts
The first great question-which would come under the for Bath had recommended had ever been adopted,
against its mi4ortunes, but he felt assured that the debate
consideration of this Commission was the penal statutes. For when the income-tax had first been laid on by Mr. Pitt, in
would not be closed wilhont a better feeling being produced
The Commission intended to consolidate the statutes 1793, which was before the union, no attempt had been made
into one great code, arranging them under two separate to extend the impost to Ireland. The income-tax was re- towards that
lately
country. Every one knew the suffer-
ings it had undergone. It had been disturbed by poli-
and distinct heads. After this explanation it was for pealed in 1803, at the end of the war. The emergency which
tical commotions, and was it right, now that the public mind
occasioned it had passed away. Ite was always considered a
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to say whether or nowas becoming soothed, to pass an Act which would disturb the
he would persist in his motion. If the Hon. and Learned necessity,
tax —a tadxs to bens imposed on the arising
e lodf extraordinary
better feeling which was beginning to be engendered on the
Gentleman persisted in Isis motion, he would trot offer the
war inmleBrog4e :lc ywaas,one ti justify it. On
other side of the channel towards this country.—(Cheers.)
again imposed, but even
any objection to it. then, notwithstanding all the outlay of this country, it was not Lord BERNARD said, connected as he was with Ireland
Lord JOHN RUSSELL was understood to express extended to Ireland. - Neither Lord Sidmouth, nor Mr. by birth and other ties, he could not quietly listen to the sen-
timents which had been expressed with regard to the landlords
his approbation of the course which the Commission Pitt, nor Mr. Percival, nor Lord Liverpool, had ever thought
of that country. Before, however, he proceeded to discuss that
intended to pursue, and he was glad to hear that the of extending the income-tax to Ireland, and he (Mr. Shell)
question, he would take leave to refer to the opening part of
criminal code and the statute law were about to be con- did doubt whether after these experiments and occasions—
the speech of the Hon. Member for Dungarvon. The Hon.
solidated. At the same time, ho saw no objection to extreme occasions—any attempt to extend such a measure to
Gentleman had complained that Ireland was not fairly repro-
of introduction of the Bill by the Hon. and Learned Ireland could be made of any profitable avail, and he
stinted in the Legislature of the United Kingdom ; but he
did think that it would be a little, as well as an unwise at-
Gentleman. could distinctly state that this was not the fact. The Hon, and
Lord J. MANNERS said, as the Hon. Member for tempt, to draw on the confined resources of Ireland to swell
Learned Member for Bath hadcharged ' *
the goltlen Pactolus of British opulence.—(llear, hear.) • • • •
Lymington did not propose to proceed any farther than It was true that the revenues of Ireland exceeded the legitimate land with desiring to shrink from sustaining their share of the
the first stage of the Bill before Easter, he trusted the expenses of that country ;it did not exceed the debt of Ire- burdens which the exigencies of the times required to be iin-
Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for the University of land, but that debt was created by its connexion with this nosed on the country. If there was a great financial scheme to
be carried—if measures were to be proposed from which it was
Oxford, would withdraw his opposition to the measure. country. It was hard, after suffering all that had been cast
Sir R. INGLIS said be , did not oppose the Bill ; he upon them by this country, they should put upon them the in- reasonable to anticipate most important benefits would result,
he was sure that the landlords of Ireland would not be found
only wished for a postponement to give time for confide- come-tax. The ground and quit rents of Ireland had been
shrinking from bearing their part of the national burden. But
ration. He would, however, withdraw his opposition. spent upoa Windsor Castle and on the improvement of Lou- the Right Hon. Baronet,when he brought forward the income-
Leave was then gireti to bring in the Bill. don. --( Hear.) More than a million had been expended of tax, thought it was expedient that it should not be extended to
those rents in that way. The Right Hon. Baronet, as lie un-
THE BANDIERAS. derstood, intended to extend the means of Catholic education Ireland. What did the Hon. Member for B..th propose? He
proposed to do one of two things—he either proposed to tax
Sir R. PEEL said a question was put to him a short in Ireland; could not, he would ask them, the ground the real property of Irela d n-, or else he proposed to tax the
time ago, which he had answered, stating that if he and quit rents of Ireland be applied to that purpose? His
in
nhololof the country. Now if it were merely the landed property
were in error he would correct it tomorrow. But he thought toplace an income-tax on the people of Ireland would
was now desirous to correct an error he had fallen into, be unjust and impolitic. If they were to extend the income- thelre and which he proposed to tax, he would tell him that
national exchequer derived an equivalent for the
, before the debate on the Post-office began. He had stated tax to Ireland the Hon. Member for Donegal would at once income-tax in the stamp duty. But there was another
that the consuls who applied to Lord Seaton with respect join the repealers.—Laughter.) He would at once take the ground on which it was • decided not to extend the
Grey. Porter view of it, and he would become a sympathiser
to the embarkation of the Bandieras at Corfu were theincome-tax Ireland tothree years ago. There was no
with the Concilliation-hall. In 1782 the Irish extorted the
Austrian and the Pontifical Consuls, but he was in error independence of their Parliament from this countr and there machinery in Ireland by which the tax could be collected. The
in this, as the Neapolitan Consul also made an applies- were men who thought before they died to see that inde expense of its collection would swallow up the larger part of
tion, and this was the communication received from Lord pendence restored again.—(Cries of " Hear," and cheers.) the sum to be collected ; and he agreed with the Right Hon.
Seaton on the subject. The brothers Bandiera conducted Before he sat down—which he should very soon do—he should Baronet that the substitution of an equivalent was more ad-
•
themselves with propriety during their residence in be able to show that, without imposing the income-tax on Ire. vantageous to the interests of tire nation. In the reigns of
Corfu but on the night of the 12th of June they in corn- land, they might raise a large amount of revenue. Saving was Richard 111. and Henry VIII. a tax of four shillings in the
, any with other individuals, to the number of twenty-one equivalent to gain.—( Hear, hear.) He was surprised his Hon. pound was imposed on the landed proprietors to prevent absen-
p
Friend, the Member for Montrose, the other night, should have teeism. In 1775 the tax was reduced to two shillings in the
persons, embarked in a small vessel and sailed, as it is
forgotten his usual topics - under the pound. But this all equally failed to bring back the landed
supposed, for the coast of • Calabria. ". The Austrian influence of the eloquence •
of the Right Hon. ' Baronet, he seemed even to forget himself, proprietors to the country. But the Right Hon. Baronet, in
Neapolitan Consuls ' waited on me to be fur-
He didnotword
and
nished with the means of bringing back the or the reductions that might be made in henue, or economy, merit to those whose duty and inclination' it ought to b
vessel. This there was no authority to do, but I placed under a better system ofgovernment. Htise
Harmy in Ireland to reside upon the property, and to minister to the wants of
on. Friend had
at their disposal the means of communicating the de- often pointed out how two thousand those whom Providence had committed to their care.
men were enouh for
partiire of the vessel to the Neapolitan authorities. Scotland, and the evil of keeping up so large a force in Ire- If the Hon. and Learned Member intended to restrict the tax
CLERKS OE QUARTER SESSIONS. land. But on that occasion his Hon. Frien, who was to the landlords of Ireland, how little would it produce to the
Sir J. GRAHAM hrivily moved for leave to bring in rally as watchful as the dragon that kept guard over the Ggolclueen. revenue 1 For was it not notorious that a great proportion of
a Bill to regulate the appointment and payment of Clerks Fleece, was lulled to sleep by the persuasive eloquence of the the rental of Ireland was paid away in mortgages, and in re-
ducing cumbrances imposed upon the estates by their anc-
and other Officers of the-Courts of Petty and Quarter Right Hon. Baronet, and yielded to the enchantments of that
es-
Sessions of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol fascinating financier 1—( Great laughter.) But his Hon. tors? Was it not equally; true that these mortgages and inFriendcumbranceswere
was quite right in the positions he had so often laid
Delivery. down. The paid the income-tax out of them in this country ? He did be-
Mi. FERRAND wished to ask the Right Hon.
y could, by conferring good government on Ire- lieve, then, if they were to extend the income-tax to Ireland,
for the Home De art- land, effect an essential saving If the would ads• pt their in-
Baronet, the Secretary, Of State P stitations to Ireland, instead * • y the returns would not exceed the present
proceeds of the stamp
of adapting Ireland to their insti-
d • e •
ment, whether it was his intentions to epriv , magistrates lotions—(Hear, He h ) h
ar, ear t e phrase was an antithesis, but it- duty. But if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman meant to
of the power of appointing their own clerks. If that was full of truth—if they would adapt their institutions to Ire- say that the tax was to be extended ti,roughout Ireland gene-
•
were the case he believed it would cause a great many land, instead of adapting Ireland to their institutions—they rally, he would urge upon him to c,rnsider what had been the
magistrates to retire altogether from the commission of would make money of them. Peace was a great happiness. peculiar What was the state of that country twelve months ago? He
the peace. let them not inflict merely a temporary tranquillity on that coon-
/sir. ESCOTT said he apprehended that was not the try ; let them make it a perpetual peace.—(Cheers.) Peace spoke from personal experience when he stated that large
nsassßes were, in the habit of being collected—( Hear, hear, from
proper time to discuss the clauses of this 8111. He must, would make it a larger contributor to their revenue. Pelee
however, sincerely, thank the Right lion. Baronet for would increase its import duties—peace would make it consume )—for
H. 1 eel the purpose of intimidating the Govern-
ment. It must be remembered, also, that at this time dread-
The object which more suar and coffee—ace would enable it to take more
introducing so important a measure.ful arid simultaneous fires occurred, which were accompanied
British manufactures—peace would
he should keep in view in the further progress of the ..throw open a vast field of b}• the most ominous silence amongst all parties, so as to leave no
. . enterprise—and ire the prosperity
measure would be to take care that no provision was in- doubt who were the originators of them, When he looked at
their munificence be usuriously
traduced into the Bill to enable any person who derived Sir J. TYRRELL ,ft e
r u,
rr.ePraatkuli•a7-in(LotuhdecHheering.) these circumstances, arid remembered that the judicious course
profit from former extortionate practices, to be remu- display of eloquence they had heardg that gevenin House on thehe and the firmness evinced by her Majesty's Government in that
nerated in proportion to his past extortion.—(Hear.) did not in his own person exhibit an g'of ' example men- i .
country had restored peace, tranquillity, and happiness, he
t iougl,t it unwise to extend a burden to below! which ,ou;d
Sir J. GRAHAM begged to state in reply to the Hon. cultural distress—(lmmense laughter)—yet he hoped' it be productive of no practical good. He spoke from personal
Member for Knaresborough, that he did not seek by his would be conceded to him that distress was in the habit of experience, and he eaold aisiire the House that it would be
Bill to deprive magistrates of the power of appointing their meeting with " strange bedfellows."—( Renewed laughter.) exthe Ilon, and
an unwise step to adopt the amendment of .
own clerks, but he objected to allowing them to receive He was aware that many Gentlemen in that House were not Learned Member. Men who a short tune ago were engaged
any fees except in Petty Sessions or in open Court. inclined to support any proposition coming from the Hon. Mem:- in organising large bodies of men, for the purpose of con-
Mr. WAKLEY moved for a copy of any petition, to- ber opposite, by reason of his entertaining extreme opinions '
spiracy, were now laying out their money in improving their
on certain polittealsubjects• but •1 he (Sir J. Tyrrell) now trusted farms, and devoting themselves with ne second object to the im-.
gather with a copy of the signatures attached thereto, to the courage of his' ric l'
which was presented to the Crown by the Council of the —that they would ;flieku
uturathefrdends aruund him—(A laugh) proving the condition •of the country. When that was the
ir courgge—(Laughter—and case, was it within the pale of political wisdom to come forward
Royal' College of Surgeons of England, praying her that he would see by theannouncement in to-morrow's papers, and create anotheg pounce of discord in the cottutry ? As an

Irish Member he most cordially approved of the financial Meg;
sures proposed by the Government. He believed the nrol'elit
reductions would improve the manufacturing interests of :' ,
country, and enlarge the mares, of the Irish egrieuluriivesa,
who were in a great treasure di le ',dent oir the English He
nufacturers.—( Hear, Lear, from Sir Robert feel.),_ he
looked forward to the many gratifying results wh'ettese.
thought. the reduction in the duty of cotton would proslaeeke
So far as Ireland was concerned, a greater boon could ri thei;
given, for it would encourage their manufactures ; and woos
they considered the water power, and the magnificent rive
at_
Ireland, might they not hope, at some future time, the "toe
merce of Ilse country would be increased. The western re .
of Ireland was peculiarly adapted for manufacturing purpots se:
but now they were compelled .o go io Liverpool fortheir coleee
He hoped, hoe ever, to see the time when ships dome front in
States of Amer ca would he bound landing their cargriee oittintl
coast of Ireland. Let the House remember the agriceuelitire
advantages of Ireland. He could assure those Hon. 0.1 de,
men who talked so much of the abstract principles of free trltr,
that Ireland would posse s the means of affording this eeti,esi
ample and sufficient food, if they would only assist her,,l. us.
veloping the resources of the country. If they would 01Y 'ot,
prove her situation. he was stile that, at no distant OP
~,,,
would be able to minister to the wants of the inereasing Pilytde
lation of England. It was his firm convict on that she
.7040
yet be the means of saving this country from being humble
the dust to ask for food from a foreign nation.—(Cheeras/f the
Mr. BELLEW concurred in the latter sentiment' e e per
Noble Lord, for he believed the resources of Ireland had P
o'er
been sufficiently developed. He thought it was in the Viand
of her Majesty's Government to make her a flouriehing.o
prosperous country.—( Hear, hear.) Beewe the incolteo,
could be extended to Ireland there were two things to be it;
sidered—first, that there was an easy mode of celleetiebeer.
and secondly, that the country was in a prosperous &lobed
both as regarded agriculture and manufactures. Bet sell
was more of an agricultural than a nianuffeeturing countrett,4 0
they must recollect that only one million of the tax coke bee
England was eunfributed by the landed interest. Prost!
strongly did this show the inexpediency of extending lh„'etiegos
Ireland, where te o-th rds of the population were enPßee,euto tetle
culture. Before the union the taxation of Ireland had w",ha yeer
millions. Bat what was the fact between that tittle"' of bi
1-01—ond 1807, the taxation of Ireland had been illetelostelli
mere than 500,0001. a year, and this he thought li le.to el '
answer to those Hon. Gentlemen who thought that tows.
this nature should be imposed on that country. In Peeuelee 1
them this statement, he felt that it was a sufficient grv-id, oo
his opposition to the tax. While such claims we," nie red ie
property, and while Ireland became in this way ini-eleil
the debts of Great Britain in an unequal degree, eel oes.,
her previous position, was it fair that a propertittil ski:
now be imposed on the country ? He (Mr. Bebe-tisseo
English gentlemen whether it was right to impole,„-ofre.,
Ireland •.: hen so little e imparatively had been taken 11",,s'eti11
the taxes imposed upon her ? Much had been said re 11;e0
the lighter burdens imposed upon Ireland, as if tbst ) fat
source of encouragement for absentees.—( Hear, h 0 titer
he felt assured that all those who were intimate ent",,eb f,
tual position of that country, would be aware that tr that"- u:.,
Terence could fairly be drawn, and he did not Willie,' 41
Hon. and Learned Member for Bath had exereis e shies
discretion in now pressing this tax on the country, °Joel,
so much had already been imposed which she was P°
to bear. leri
Mr. NEWDIGATE said that he would not trrecoleer;
upon the House, and that he would not have treneePt;
them at all, were it not that he did not think that it see.-
Gentlemen with whom he acted ought tamely to spit tepee.
calumnies which had been heaped upon them bi,jetoco
i
Member for Bath. Calumnies which he felt for hilti7tieefeto
—and he did not doubt but other Members on hs 6;0019.ej
House felt the same—were as gross as they iverri',(frjo
and mistimed, foul, and invidious, and unjustifie-- „,eieb
cries of " Hear, hear," " Order," " Chair," durior's • 0
Hon. Member attempted for a short time to proceedt/toietio,
Mr. C. BULLER said that the use of !rich eofeS,Pbe Ole,
foul calumnies was clearly contrary to the usage n „'eftle. ,
and such as could not be tolerated when used 111°— . If
towards another, and he protested against it. es "tier
Mr. GREENE said that the Hon. Member Weesd pet
out of order, in the use of the expressions which he " le
plied to the speech of the Hon. Member for Bath' No i°°l
Mr. NEWDIGATE begged to apologise to the- eros' 0
the words ehieh had just fallen from him, but the Or tbitor
of the Hon. Member for Bath had been BO 0,04. sus
felt bound to meet them with terms enuallYor, :the,fieelf
nected as he was with the county with Whien..lo,P.Ftr
Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government hie intern,',
concerned, he would have been glad to hear his ets., jii
tion of the question which the Hon. Member fee., PP,
brought forward, and the position which he took tao. suss
think that if a property-tax wee to be imposed se 110,0'
1 it would be one way of reaching the absentees hie cis'
country. But this he thought would he a toisee,rgesseilf°olli
and if the Honourable Member for Bath atte".`belie 411
way to enlist the Members with whorl he acted, bieetitglissili
would be disappointed, and if he wished, like the I',e) cou'e
Mancha, to attack windmills, he (Mr. Nerdigs;rie'
that he could not have taken a more effective ette lei
curing his object.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) , , 0 tbilersi
Mr. Al UNTZ said, that nothing had been 11"6 9ipie je
of the subject by which Hon. Members should beiod cow"
When he saw that gentlemen connected with Iteteh le
there and enjoy the great remission of taxes 11100tbi1:etlii
joyed by the people of that country, and then/Li/toot; VI
it, he did think that there was no sufficient argigeotresl;
replies to what had been alleged by the 11"'„0014,0",
Bath, and when he saw that those gentlemen, :„eetli'tiere
take such large sums from that country, 10° 'if
.to 4 Or
various parts of Europe, he felt assured, that nes,o O.
absenteeism an imposition on realised property M
',AK,
best tax. •eb elf"/
Mr. ROEBUCK said the best argument white,. r ,
sibly ha adduced of correctness in debate was the s 0005
temper.—(" Oh. oh," and disapprobation.) i 00%,0,
Sir H. BARRON said that he felt assured thg, -nr
would feel that the Hon. and Learned Member ... Kluir
totally failed in establishing his results. 13efr reieirte,
upon the main question, he would beg to show toe, pee;
which the Hon. and' Learned Member for 1331"0the..„1 'Oa
with respect to the attendance of Irish Members it itl!,ef
He would beg to assure the Hon. and Learned i'et Oeifej
when he imputed the absence of those Members ;01_.i,fi 07,
than the real cause, that he evinced only gr°lese-slirtelejr
ignorance of the characters of those whom he be ooo.fr
that he used expressions in their absence which
pd ilir %I
dare to utter if those gentlemen were present ; %jell_ eeijer
that Hon. Member to repeat the expressions se:..(ii
used, when those Hon. Gentlemen were present' .„f' Ili
of " Hear, hear," " Order, order," " Chair, cbsillott'es
The CHAIRMAN interposed, and said that tbe .
ber was out of order. d ifil4
Sir H. BARRON said, that what the Hon. „eljisbee, 10,
Member said with respect to those Irish Membeose ;to'
absent was incorrect. But he would nowt; 001 eirlet
facts ; and in giving those facts, he Wou,'„ lle„o"terg
upon any opinion of his own, on ~t`"loe . Tietvg
of this or that man, either in or out of the P° in'te,,,o,fr,
returns laid, by order of a `elect Committee ells-breeefesi
purpose, on the table of that House. Before li32pebt:bslt
union with this country took place—the Fold: this riosto
land was 450,000,0001., and, in the year /81uit the els v.,.
increased to 764,000,0001. The Irish Pebt Isikt" !wire
first mentioned was only 28,000,0001., butsninh;;e U. Orr 0
had accumulated to 118,000,0001. The le,er that 0/40010
tam had not been doubled in that time, esh"e fods _.dli d
had absolutely quadrupled within the sense Peelederisosl
return for this burden, what benefits had heePe.een leeeered
Ireland in the way of taxation? Why, het."„ had 'aeot,,s
1842, as much as 40,000,0001. of annual titeettil sleeetrAo
mit ted to England; while, in Ireland, the iw, " oorr tsLot
relief had been only 2,000,e00/., or her en eesoeeeer,
part of the remission of taxes which had he the oro,oTo
country. -At the time the union took plseet et. tri
_jell
entered into was, that Ireland should heitoife's ro
teenths of the whole taxation a the reetee_li Ile,
what had been the case? Had this ,eg imPrOtifrol
adhered to ? No, the amount actually Gees; ego
2,000,000/. of Ireland, for 15,000,000/. Ter „ tolesear 0
Mr. Foster, a man of the highest attainuter7teorSP"Vo
speaker of the Irish House of Commons, and.etostieaed roe
a 'hat country, loudly appealed against the Ireland' 0.10 00
vain. Ile enew semethine of the state 01,‘ le esS leo./
r, as the de:iberate (Onion of one te hse indone Iluresettee
pended en, and not of one perieeily ignore) on s„f 11.511'
which he professed to speak.---( Hear, hear. /
fait
eyeele'ef
to Ilansard's Debates he found that the teelo so 4%001,0
which had been 440,0001. was increased into irity to., iosi
and in 1816 to 5,760,000/. Another ali 130 P. C$ ill
would refer was Lord Fitzgerald.
( Sir H. Barrow) would suspect him olloastqltro'coasgstileisi_tilbsoteotleo
for that nobleman, and he might, therefore,
00 Otto ,
citing him as an authority he was citingthe elsoiefl,
all might depend for evidence 00,,, tbst :0 reeld
hand. Ile would refer to a letter „",.stee 'lied roe
which had been written to Mr. L':' or Ire est,O
That Noble Lord then stated that the peorPeeeteti sof:4 te't 0
45 000,000/. of taxes mere than she cont r 010_4 0;01
time of the union ; and yet it was said %%e 017" efriesi
enough ; that the income-tax ought to bea,Piressndtsole/10,
it was the only panacea for all the ills 1 .6 oho, to ois
confident tat every gentleman in the filitioo loot ope
the questions ould vote against the prep ought i in stlter,
Member for Bath.—( Hear, hear.) isle , se, ooe: ottl ,at
the condition of Ireland that which justifite:E,,,/01010010,
that the income-tax, as it respected Irellhr en a
116 60010,
politic and unjust tax. If they had e"nteeteloss, bees 00404
taxation on Ireland they would, in his it:eland r's; eerfort
more than their duty.—(Hear, hear. e
etaeot fr" evil' °'
Parnrandiortle,the deco
provement, for by withdrawing the
had withdrawn a great number of rich „ was
__ tee,lfts
nexions and friends.—( Hear, hear.) 4.; i 0,07.0,0 el
England to make many sacrifices in ordfret,rooeiroeotrytiii
dition of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) At the lot a
.i, 10100
land was over-taxed ; there west h wee 'joie, file
Europe with her resources
whtf Ireland .0 Is
lb:
taxed as Ireland. The landlords
had ,ekess lici.iettiati testi
greatly injured by the alterations thatran drostesfetre,
..1
tithes, added lo which there was a fit , !end he
..eueeti.stesi
present moment at the state of Irelat?ll i..'tw difer.', oil ':,, it
the time was not far distant when sail arty hstegpa 17'00
be laid aside, and Ireland would agaiart Come he
easier se.f_A ter ofir
Ireland could be governed by the he ireiene had 00 tin
hear. ) ' at the (105.
le
could by the sword.--( Hear, 0 tree t joe ,es
greatly taxed.—( Hear, hear.) It werse about i'sliesiols—,abefl
relent had now found that out, and w e, Goes.
ereo _ i
hest also 'el' et It " helirte
grant for education. They -- bin too, -te
inquire into the state of land in thatitewatter. catatoberio(
been much better if they had in
n ,hing W idell ,
Colonel CONOLLY thought if. '
injure Ireland it was the proposition
AUER la Poe
Bath. e ExCHE— shoo- 401,0
The CHANCELLOR ef the be did, thatshteing his '0441 It'.
of the Hee. .
id
it el,
impossible, holding the situatioean
without 0-1, be inch its t...
this question to come to a decisre he sbou testi vole e 7,
with respect to it. Whatever_enT_bsiab seho_ reeet gb; otf
give the lion. and Learned Ci ."e he eouldo!'ich jos'
the i.e greb
.40 ,
matter forward on many occasions, to 9 test 're
credit for much skill, or ere
disc manner,at,trttaeuti
itself'
infs. eLlirooollfl,lo,
brought a subject forward mostthate.woulil
tisfaction in Ireland, and th
eezepereoso.i.ntidsrhYbi4itnieer,,f
eoloolarageor
perhaps endangering the peacebaoctit
Hon. Gentlemoati male eet..set. re. ote.
with respect to the absence f . man,, dies titelntehoughs iosaid,b;
that House during the diseus,"l:o) that, but Coloons it of t 0
give no opinion with respect's., =souse of t'u inseresteie
geo,
could be said that the Brit
e,n
niegicetthey ott i e
r,
consequence of that
He was satisfied that tiliehl;„d an?, ;leobeaie
country. Aan those "'"° of it." -ee to ss
to the people of Ireland, a
t, _
_reseeee oto Jo jott e 011$.
selves from the house, that
_lict,Fr. 'louse !'.....,'„, th !I, use
selves
was not. necessary to Hear, Hai'.)
.7 lingOW_ Cawwbetheier
voie,,t.:
people of Ireland.—( House, nep an lei In 1:0
elate subject before th
should ,rot - Hear' / cesollios
expedient that they
i Ireland.-- (11L'elit by the, et, 0...0,
on real property .n ,be guide(
rojabs sit, 041110
posing all taxes, they must
, or they „tie be, to
Iv
and eireuinstanees of each
appearedcountry'
equal, f,e_s_in he errs to tll.
a tax that, though it
a. en 1842, ",nogs jeriu'irseibst.oi,e
very unequal and very erklustjad direeted, le
,0 uis 00,00 i.
income-tax for England, he e.,etaii. I h so tor
oobeesi
subject of an income-tax lo 1.,,,,!ht icope...e_ef,acti.eg 03101,
quirt' was that. though tiwy .
returns to the -0 bsge, ~ a
prove a heavy beldam. yes the , „writ. itiewee rt:
bole'
~.a:..it P - f saes ete
' be letie, if ail) theie, fle-'re_ heavy 100 ". lototile rsly ds',
had. Imes been subjset ler;i
had been aC,C AO Pl bye
hear," and laughter.) le,'
~ by eiree
ee tbet. o,t d,
1 large amount of revenue, parsq l
count'? e the Irdn
b direct
1. hedtaxation, i
nand throughout ibis
the beet Lad 400 000
for collecting
..eater 0'"" ,- •
taxes, and other!, that had neverabeen im.mrsentot of 1,
~.
Therefore we could hero collect ir

financial tn.:
I the Vrol4 Wlsfri
terests of
egrieUlUtiess:
e Engn'h
Peel. )
Ito Whleh
he
ould produre_
n could Lot De
es ; and whe.
ificent ricers °f
ime, the t
3e western p,
'ring purpooin:
lor their cot,
ch. ect from tithe
carg,'" can t
he agricuttincs
Hon. Gell,ll ,
es of free 01 e
ng this eo,unt,r_i„
,osi,t her in
would only iris
sh
iistrot
3e.reaoing
that ohe I°o
F„ing bumblo,
e; '
.( Cheer..
ititnents 7 err
elan.' had 7,er
• in the 11" .4
flouriohing tef
the lore: eett•
'inns t°
ie
'ernes co
Ireit.stoi
e. Bet
ng country,o
tax .
collected 1,
w
est. l‘g, to?
ading thio
engsge_di,,Pko
d had bee
h" yole
time-40d b!
ern
ght icre;teifol
°li%
t that a 0
~, re
In put rfor
cient groloe
la were jared is
way inio.deog
ree, O°ool
perty-t°, okr
Bedew./ 500
impose tg foes
S/ 14
taken nee'
„, said reel re
we
if that JO
tsr he tr.! Or
it; with
that go 'llob for
4
think- r.-
eifa
exercised oobieb
untrl, en titt•ti
%v as pot
tot trestl or
tropashe tlO a
nk that t7t to tb
to subprbe.
ti
e ,bY i n
of
o"be
r hils!
rOn sresKie c11,04°1
ef
Istiflablu
during siP . r 0
r OCeed re
Oi°ll
; „
f th..eepber
ge 0 a
bl .01/
ceetor
tor had ;01
.:13 be fd
a03.-.00
the.' 09
to
,„%or rite
ut tbe ; teet
so
iitron ',tot
II y ole°We,,el6ll
wide., .., ins,
it was. t. errettoll
r his -nslk
bet for , Podf
took 1,0 101011
)sed or-- fro
jet
;elite° bie 17°1410
miser° tea 01,10
terottisor'f,
ted. be btn
• K 404 ,
It
the, re)
eschgs.oe o
ire f° ar
01004
m sa•
id Ade
mid be Scow"
h Irele 00 /4
Whiv'tbitlitO
gige noeng i° 0°
it Ogg° ObdiPi
Hon' °ld
o°%l al
:eonei. 0,5
next • t
toab,
)er(9
• b °sip°
vsble_.,
Ls the tor- orp
) t-beeli'°l
Kt that , 130,,redi
ibex fe'be.°
Before istoVele
the rnbetldleeir
Bath trt Ott
t,e,
boot- or- or
red ell pej
nbell ;f
6°s' -elirntr,l
he '11,10°,..4
dab
..A"brt
0t i bid sr
orb' bed
on, At.
rsite
r, n1'1°000;0,1
„t the
ry
Elon• ibo„
ow enniot °trete
„ulcl 0100°,00
the ttetatiO
Houser tied
jer
the
ee ;Peori.,..evy brefFS 05 °
tidedl) • 111.14
t tids
:316, the -. Pe.
,bt et 6 t101511(5
n 151 'res 0s
t ofof. io
)eb
that
riero,
iile t.n..A.
erw-rerrell,6 0
eeno"„ 16,0' j
tege"ov-st '
ratio° .em°
w bolt 010;01
tiO
Onrolf ojeti,
bece~en23 Ogfeedfetil
t"e trio"' s'd
bolt e• ter
roP",,,g
e reetne d
weepro°o
iiy t 1
00
Oro ,to
for ja
tot i io
ientio t
terwar.to
id • otic''and
✓ be ito
'7.0 lee
For lie to free j
It ef relerl
On f
) • 0_„, to
00,110 Lvev
810 so,'"iehni°
lorirl 10°11 bi."e
who
_iitie-
nir pc thy
Elio 01 0 ip
re, e° 00 e
ig 00e olit.ite tao,"
the volYe,e111;
hat . _;10
10 Jr
Fester lin" 0"
r ire d
to
pc..A to tiat
'te``o_"oll6:',
laced tir id°
P lseci" delfoo'
Ire an .0
c"f the Ali,
isev :pp
010- there ,
outshone in oo' 01
AN 0 lijOre
nd'o: 'llllo'
!ndioo, 11,4$110eired ;el
land r_ bete",
'304 frlheif ty
3.310,110,,h, 0 ott
t was rr thgt
lrt
irsPr° otte° it
got
resent Art 000
71 aO7 rt..
.10
relay(' iso to
lake( ? iio do!
iiattiarac-oten
be "eisfrei
diferei 0- 0, I-
beirrl tle ref
ya rhl's 0 •
o f Terre
Ea -bey" v
that to° 0
e to if'`.ooeo fo
,ut
~„;00 ,jha
but
00,0.)
• but i` he ll°
( liser'„iate for
-- ale Der
, was igeri
1100.

said "rid
(lug— toa re.„;00
it be 'h°lli3 °Pic] t°
statb4 • clllle tt
Iti be In cighthiol
~dbro
fe
ioirnot glv
).0" whichte„ doe
tbegcron3seec
o
dry '`strlr°ood
its
. plm,o ~dl,
•ish i‘ien-,ge `‘o
(14
abject'
ht it rts i°
e
thoug"o,ol.ll,,t
o 0,10000 , of it
intercb''cid
they thietf
• iib
6, los 11, AiAtmihr
o
th
e 0111 ,4
tt) it
'MM. dirt ,to
whe
we inn
falenar')
by ,13
might 1 in reg:',llo
ould be' 05e' flia
e.) be P'rtles to
• inquir; !bat u' id
0.
,e 5" 013' „oil'
s 0% tier
,a 0 C 1
lln ('‘ °re
xatioo: to
„mon' drily bYeils•
and p' badirisrJ
✓tbeY _
,S tax, the 1,00:5
31sea uP°l Orf"
apt
130