The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-31 00:00:00

Lord at the head of the Colonial department. He alone was
able:to do it, and restore the colony to a state of prosperity and
security. lie called upon the Right Iron. Baronet to step out
and take some decisive course for benefiting the colonies. The
Right Hon. Baronet was the only one who could do it, and he
reminded the Right Hon. Baronet that he who tolerated, par-
ticipated. Repeating his hope that the Right Hon. Baronet
would adopt decided measures, the Hon. Member concluded by
declarini his intention to oppose the vete.
Mr. SHEIL traced many of the evils which had fallen upon
New Zealand to the Colonial-office. True, Capt. Fitzroy had
committed numerous errors, but upon the vicarious hack of
Capt. Fitzroy all the chastisement ought not to fall ; for who
had appointed Capt. Fitzroy but the Colonial Department,
and should not the Noble Lord at the head of that office have
satisfied himself of the qualifications of Capt. Fitzroy previous
to his appointment? He would not doubt that Lord Stanley
was influenced by humane motives towards the New Zealanders
in the policy which he adopted towards them ; he would
not doubt that it was considered by the Government
that the treaty of Waitangi would conduce to the happiness of
the natives. But Lord Stanley deceived himself as to the ca-
pabilities'of the New Zealanders, who had strong claims to
his coramiseratien. Let them look at the results which the
policy of that Noble Lord had wrought on the minds of the
New Z alanders. They were told by the principal protector
of the aborigine; that, notwehstand ng the interpretation of
the treaty of Waitangi, they held the Government of this
country in scorn. It was, therefore, manifest that a great
change was necessary, that small doses had no effect, that em-
pirical and homceepathic prescriptions did not suit. Korora-
rika was reduced to the state of Old Sarum. The Govern-
ment might think that the decision of Lord Stanley was irre-
vocable, but they would find that this was a mistake. The
Committee which was appointed by the Government to make a
report were two-thirds Tories and one-third Whigs. On that
Committee they put members of the Government—embryo
Ministers. The great majority of the Committee were sup-
porters of the Government, several of them members of the
Government, and he was quite surprised to find that their re-
port had been dismissed with utter disregard. The object of
his observations was to show that great mistakes had been com-
mitted, and to show them that if they were not prepared to go
the whole length with the Committee, that it would be right
that the Right Honourable Baronet should use his influence in
inducing Lord Stanley to redress the grievances which had
been complained of. He would be the last man to say that Lord
Stanley ought to be treated with disrespect; but if he (Lord
Stanley) were ever so calm, and ever so enlightened, he would
venture to say that to him (Lord Stan!ey) New Zealand ought
not to be subject, and that the preservation of that great posses-
sion of the English Crown ought to be better regarded.
Sir It. PEEL was sorry that the Right Hon. Gentleman
had deprived himself of the opportunity of making that
speech on a former occasion. He, at the same time, sympa-
thised with the disappointment which he (Mr. Sheil) would
have been exposed to, if he had lost this cpportuaity of making
its The discussion on the matter had already taken place,
and lasted two nights, and he (Sir li. Peel) would have
been rather better 'prepared to meet these observations on the
second opportunity. He should not be prevailed upon, on this
occasion, to enter into any discussion with respect to the
matter. He could not do that which even it was painful to
bins not to do, namely, to enter into a defence of the Noble
Lord ( Stanley), and repel those accusations which had been
most unjustly cast upon him, without affording an opportunity
for another discussion, which he was desirous to avoid. He
thought that he had done everything in his power already
to vindicate his Noble Friend, and that he had succeeded.
Now, the Right Hon. Gentleman said that the Noble
Lord should be held responsible for the appointment of Captain
Fitzroy. lie (Sir R. Peel) was of opinion that be was tech-
nically and constitutionally responsible, but he did not think
that be was to be considered as culpable for every act com-
mitted by Captain Fitzroy. Was the Member for London to
be held responsible for every act of Messrs. Spain and Hodg-
son, whom he had appointed ?_( Hear, hear.) In the eyes of
the law, the Noble Lord was responsible for the appointment
of Captain Fitzroy, but would he be considered responsible for
every act of his by a person not looking technically at the mat
ter? He (Sit R. Peel) took the case of the militia. Captain
Fitzroy got orders to raise a militia, but he did not act in ac-
cordanie with those instructions. Was his Noble Friend to be
held responsible for Captain Fitzroy's non-observance of his
orders? Capteia Fitzroy declined to obey the instructions
given him undo mistaken views, and he thought the responsibi-
lity should rest with himself. Never was a man appointed upon
more pure or more disinterested motives—he was thought to be
the most clever man for the performance of the duties assigned
to him. He was surprised that a man who had distinguished
himself in that House, should have acted so. He was selected
because he was believed to be well qualified to discharge
the duties which would devolve upon him. He would not
enter any further into that question, because he thought it
might give rise to an untimely discussion. With respect to
municipal institutions, they should, he thought, choose the
largest town in a district, and incorporate with that town as
large a district as possible. The natives resident within that
district should, of course, have the advantages of British sub-
jects.---( Hear, hear.) He thought that at present the law
provided that every male of 21 years of age had a right to
vote. It was necessary that the body which was entrusted
with the powers of taxation should have as extensive powers as
was consistent. He thought that the municipal Government
should have as extensive powers as were consistent with a
superior legislative body. There ought not to be different
principles of legislation in different parts of the country. The
constitution of this superior power was a matter of the greatest
importance. The governing body ought to represent the
public opinion of the colony. It ought to have an influence
over the governing body. In what mode that could be arrived
at he would not lay down any precise rale. It would greatly
depend on the individual whom they would appoint as go-
vernor to that colony. He would not go any further into the
subject through the fear that he might provoke that discussion
which he was so desirous to avoid. _ .

Mr. HAWES believed that if a negotiation was once inst.
tuted between able and upright men, representing the interests
of the colony and the Government, they would arrive at some
satisfactory result.
Mr. C. BULLER said that he was glad t hear that nego-
tiating: between the different interests werrnow taking place,
and he would be exceedingly disappointed if they did not meet
with the beneficial result which he anticipated. He wished to
call the attention of the Honse to the estimate now before them.
His Noble Friends at his side of the Honse would see that he
objected as much as possible to the expenditure which had
been incurred in the colonies. The Hon. Gentleman then
alluded to the estimates of Captain Fitzroy. He estimated that
the expenditure of the present year was 36,0001.; but that the
expenditure of next year would be 26,000/. His calculation of
the revenue was modest, but it was, nevertheless, fallacious.
He made out that the income derived from the property-tax
would amount to 8,0001., but the return for the last two
quarters would show that it would not amount to 4,0001. The
Honourable Gentleman then complained of the salaries given
to individuals employed in the Government of that colony, and
said that the Government ought to be enabled to pay salaries
whitfli individuals had a right to expect for their services.
Mi. AGLIONBY was rejoiced that an explanation had been
given by the Hon. Baronet, of the intention of her Majesty's
Goverosnent towards New Zealand, and he hoped and believed
that the result would be to make New Zealand a self-support-
ing colony.
Lord EBRINGTON was glad that some prospect of au
agreement between the Company and the Government was
likely. He thought, however, that they would not arrive at
any beneficial result until the Government laid down some defi-
nite and intelligible principle with regard to the management
of the waste lands in New Zealand.
Mr. HOPE explained.
Mr. WILLIAMS said that he thought that this vote was to
be opposed, but now that the Gentlemen had got possession of
a minion acres in New Zealand, they were anxious that as
much money as possible should be expended on them. He had
no doubt that if the session lasted much longer, the Secretary
for the Colonies would come down with a supplementary vote
for Wew Zealand; he begged to know if such was not his in-
tention.
Mr. HOPE stated that he had already said that the accounts
sent by Captain Fitzroy were so vague that the Government
were compelled to form false estimates upon these financial
statements.
Captain OSBORNE said that the present vote had nothing
to do with the family quarrel between the New Zealand Com-
pany and the Colonial-office. With reference to the imme-
diate vote, he must say that it was too small, and on that
ground alone ho would oppose it.
Mr. HINDLEY said, that since the Bishop of New Zea-
land had gone out the peace of the colony had not been im-
-1 roved, but rather the reverse.
Admiral DUND.I•3 defended the Bishop of New Zealand.
Ile knew no man who did his duty better, or teat of greater
b:eiefit to that colony.
Mr. ABEL SMITH concurred in that opinion. The
Bishop of New Zealand was &serving of the highest respect
for his conduct since his at rival in the colony.
Mr. HOPE, in answer to a question from Captain Oa-
he ne, said, that the salary of the Governor of New Zee-
land would be raised from 1,200/. to 2,5004 but it was not
eentemplated that that should be a permanent arrangement.
After a few words from Mr. PILOTHEILOY and Mr. Ht NDLIT,
Mr. AGLIONBY said that the New Zealand Company
had always granted assistance to any religious denomination
that required it in the colony ; and as the Protestants were
more numeroas than any other class of religionists, of course
they received the largest amount of assistance.
The vote was then agreed to.
1,5001. was granted fur the Health of Towns Commission,
as were also
3,400/. for the expenses of the " Digest of the Statutes " of
the Common Law Commission.
6,0001. for the expenses of towns survey of Ireland.
On 2,5971. heing proposed to defray the expenses of the im-
provement of the river Shannon,
Colonel SIBTHORP objected to the vote. He considered
it was a waste of the public money. The Hon. Gentleman en-
tered minutely into the history of these improvements, and con-
eluded by stating that it was a mere job for the improvement of
the properties of two Noble Lords, the Marquis of Lansdowne
and Lord Monteagle.
Captain OSBORNE—Does the Hon. Gentleman say the
properties of the Marquis of Lansdowne and Lord Monteagle ?
Colonel SIBTHORP— Oui.—(Laughter.)
Captain OSBORNE said that the Marquis of Lansdowne
bad no property on the Shannon, neither, he believed, had
Lord Monteagle.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was happy to
assure his Hon. Friend that the money had been well applied,
and was productive of the greatest possible benefit to the public.
Lord SANDON did not agree with the Hon. Gentleman
that it was a job. He believed it was an undertaking of
great public utility.
The vote was then agreed to.
782/. was then voted to defray the expenses in effecting im-
provements in the ambassador's house in Paris; as also
13,000/. for the expenses of the British embassy at Vienna and
Constantinople.
50,0001. for the expenses of steam communication to India
by the Red Sea.
16,000/. for the commission of volunteers in Canada.
On the vote of 150,0001. being proposed for the construction
of harbours of refuge,
Sir C. NAPIER said that, while approving of the general
application of the public money to such beneficial purposes, he
objected to Dover being included in the ports thus improved ;
it was a harbour that could never be used; the expense would
be thrown away.
Admiral DUNDAS said that if the Gallant Captain would
read the report of the Commissioners on the construction of
harbours of refuge, ho would soon change his opinion as to
the incompetency of Dover. Among the Commissioners one
only, Sir W. Symonds, entertained a doubt of the efficacy of
that port, and even that Gallant Officer did not propose to
omit it, but to couple Dungeness with it.
After a few words from Mr. WILLIAMS, the vote was
agreed to
On the sum of 1,200/. being proposed for the purposes of
St. Margaret's Church,
Mr. P. BORTHWICK objected to the vote, on the grour.d
of its being a monstrous disfigurement to the neighbourhood.
The Georgian Gothic style introduced in its interior rendered
it a most glaring instance of bad taste, and he would rather see
it pulled down, and another erected in a more populous part of
the parish. Like Westminster Abbey, whose original architec-
tural beauties were being hidden behind the unseemly monu-
ments sprawling their monstrous shapes along, like to nothing
in heaven above or earth beneath, the Church was a deformity,
and the sooner it. was removed the better.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that even
supposing the ellnreliwasean eye-sore, it could not be taken
down and rebuilt in another place under a sum of 40,0001, and
the question sasq, whether the " House was 'prepared to vote
that sum for such a purpose. Besides, it should be remembered