The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-26 00:00:00

(',OLONY OF HONG-KONG.
BOWRING said he was about to ask for some informa- I
tion from her Majesty's Government, which was well entitled
to the attention of the House—he referred to same proceedings
which had taken place in Hong-Kong, and although he knew
it was difficult to find a person to manage their interests in
China as they were managed by Sir H. Pottinger, whose bril-
liant administration exposed his successor to the danger of a
disadvantageous contrast ; it was at the same time the universal
wish that all the proceedings in that quarter should be charac-
terised by prudence and wisdom. It was of the utmost im-
portance that no impression unfavourable to the British repu-
tation should be made on the minds of the residents. A posi-
tion had been taken up by Governor in Council, from which
he was obliged to retire. He referred to an ordinance of the 21st
Aug., 1844, which, however, appeared not to be promulgated till
two months after date, so that the Governor in Council had time
to consider its effect. It stated that, for the purpose of secur-
ing order and tranquillity in Hong-Kong and its di psndencies,
the ordinance was published, but the immediate effect of it was
to create confusion, and to lead to an outbreak. It not only
referred to Hong- Kong but to its dependencies ; but what the
dependencies of Hong-Kong were he did not know. The ordi-
nance stated that all the inhabitants, of the age of twenty-eight
and upwards, wero to appear at the registrar's office, where the
following particulars were exacted from them, which, if even
bearable by the English residents there, would be perfectly
intolerable and impossible of execution to those educated in
oriental ideas. They were required to come to the regis-
trar-general's office, ',here the age, and birth, and place of
residence of every person were to be registered. They were to
state the date of their arrival, what the circumstances of their
family were, and those of their connexion, with places of resi-
dence, what their e nployment was, whether they were male or
female, married or single. What would be the feelings of par-
sons in England if they were subjected to such an inquisition,
and if they would be indignant at it, he asked them to con-
sider the feelings of persons accustomed to oriental habits.
When, some years ago, Mehemet Ali attempted to get at the
population of Cairo, he was every where met with so much
opposition, that he was obliged to give up the attempt. If
the difficulties to be met with in Egypt were so great, they
would be still greater in Hong-Kong. The consequences of
this ordinance was, that 3,000 of the inhabitants left the
colony. The Bazaar was in a state of great commotion. All
public works were suspended, and the markets of Ni ic-
toria Town were deserted. Every bead man was re-
sponsible for every coolie he had under him, and
arbitrary punishment might be inflicted on any person
who came to the colony and did not report himself
within twenty-four hours. Every overseer was also responsi-
ble for the inhabitants of the village in which he resided.
Any person who had a property of not less than ten dollars per
month had to pay one dollar for registration. It was no wonder
then that the appearance of such a document should have
created a great sensation in the colony. Meetings of the com-
mercial men were held on the subject, resolutions were passed,
and a remonstrance was made to the Governor in Council,
who stated, in a second answer which he made, that he was
surprised at the repetition of the statements contained in the
first letter, which had already met with the strong reprobation
of the Governor in Council, and the Governor in Council would
in future abstain from paying the smallest attention to their re-
presentations. Now he would ask whether it was right that such
a state of things should be continued ? He thought that it
ought to be rectified at once, that such a stigma might not
rest on the English character. The Hon. and Learned Member
concluded by making the motion of which he had given notice.
Mr. G. W. HOPE opposed; the motion on the ground
that the Government had not received any communication on
the subject.
Sir J. STAUNTON opposed the motion on the ground of
its being premature.
Dr. BOWRING said he did not understand that it was

intended to refuse the ultimate production of the docu-
ments for which he had moved. He would, for the present,
withdraw the motion, reserving to himself the right to rein-
troduce it when all the documents were in the hands of the
Government.
The motion was then withdrawn.
MEDICAL REFORM BILL.

Colonel WOOD ;presented a petition from medical practi-
tioners at Kensington, praying for some summary mode of
convicting unlicensed practitioners; also complaining that the
appointment of a Council of Health, without including a single
representative of the general practitioners, was most unjust.
On rising to move for leave to bring in a Bill for the better
regulation of medical practice throughout the United Kingdom,
Sir J. GRAHAM said he hoped that before he sat down he
should convince his Honourable Friend, who had just
presented a petition, that that petition had no reference
to the Bill immediately under consideration. Ile should not
feel it his duty to make any elaborate statement with reference
to the measure; but, considering the great importance of the
subject, and the excited state of public feeling, he would at
once candidly bring under the consideration of the House and
the public, the alterations which he proposed to make in the
Bill introduced last session. The House would remember that
when he introduced the Bill towards the close of last session,
he stated that, considering the great public interests involved
in the measure which he proposed, and the manner in which it
affected both the public and one of the most useful
and learned professions, hasty legislation would be most
imprudent, and that he should act most fairly towards the pro-
fession, and best consult the interests of the public, by
laying, at the close of the session, the precise measure which
he proposed on the table of the House, for the purpose of
securing that it would undergo general discussion. The fair-
ness of that course could net, he thought, be denied even by
those who were opposed to the measure, and its usefulness was
equally evident. The measure had been amply discussed, and
he was now about to state shortly to the House what
had been the result of the discussion, as regarded
the amendment of the measure which it was his duty to pro-
pose. He would now brief), recapitulate the leading objects of
the measure—objects which would, he thought, form the basis
of any measure which might be introduced on that subject.
The first object of the measure to which he adhered was the
establishment in this country of a council of health, which
should exercise general superintendence and control over me-
dical and surgical education throughout the United King-
dom, to consist of a board in the metropolis, of easy, and
therefore, as he thought, of useful access to the Execu-

tive Government, on all those great questions affecting
the health of the people which must, from time to time,
necessarily arise and claim serious consideration. His object
was, that in cases of sudden epidemic, and with respect to
measures which it might be necessary to adopt on the authority
of the Executive Government, with reference to the health of
large cities, and generally in all cases affecting the public
health, a council, easy of access, should exist, which might be
consulted by the Executive Government of the country.
That was the first object. The second object which he had in
view was to secure that all medical practitioners should have
equal facilities of practice throughout the United Kingdom ;
and also, that with that equality, as: regarded prac-
tice, there should be, on behalf of the public,
security for the possession on the part of practitioners of an
equality of attainments. The third object was, that those at-
tainments being secured by examination, and the standard
being kept uniform, there should be a registration which should
give to the public notice that the practitioners so registered,
having undergone examination, had come up to the required
standard ; and that notoriety being in possession of the public,
he proposed that public medical offices, for the encouragement
of medical practitioners, should be given only to such medical
practitioners as had been duly registered, and that

by law no title to practice .should be given
;o those who had not undergone the examination.

This was a short recapitulation of the leading objects of the
measure. Such were the objects secured by the measure
which he had the honour of introducing at the close of last
session. To those objects he adhered, and those objects
would, he believed, be attained by the Bill which he now
asked permission to introduce. Having recapitulated the
leading objects of the measure, it now became him to state
shortly in detail the alterations which he proposed to in-
troduce into the measure. Last session he ventured to pro-
pose the entire repeal of the statute of Henry VIII., which
gave to members of the Royal College of Physicians and
surgeons the exclusive right of practising in the metropolis and
within seven miles round. On the present occasion he did
not propose the entire repeal of that statute, but he proposed
its repeal absolutely and entirely with reference to all practi-
tioners registered under the Bill. He proposed, however, to
insert a clause exempting the Universities of Oxford and
Cambridge from the operation of the Bill.--( Hear, hear, from
some Hon. Members on the Opposition benches.) He
thought the Hon. Gentlemen did not exactly understand the
effect of that exemption. The effect of it would be to exclude
the physicians obtaining their degree at Oxford or Cambridge
from the advantage of practising in the metropolis and
within seven miles round, unless they became con-
..

sensing parties to, and came within the operation of
tho Act. Oxford and Cambridge were at present somewhat
jealous of the measure ; they did not, as at present advised,
consent to conic under the operation of the Act. He pro-
posed, then, to insert a clause, the effect of which would be
to leave those universities in the full enjoyment of the privilege
of granting degrees to medical men, and conferring on them
the right of practising in all parts of England and Wales, ex-
cept the metropolis and seven miles round. He hoped, how.
ever, that before the Bill went into Committee, an arrange-
ment might he made between those two learned bodies
and the Metropolitan College of Physicians, which would
supersede the necessity for this exempting clause. The
arrangement would, he expected, be this, that assessors should
go down from the body of physicians in London to Cambridge
and Oxford, and that :the same diploma which, being granted
by the university, gave the right of practice elsewhere, should,
by this arrangement, also confer the right of practice else-
where. He should then propose the withdrawment of the ex-
entpting clause in Committee; an arrangement being made
with respect to the uninesities of Oxford and Cambridge
similar to the arrangement with the other learned bodies of
Scotland and Ireland. He now came to the question more
immediately raised on the petition presented by his Hon. and
Gallant Friend, namely, the question of the repeal of the
Apothecaries' Act. Now he had come to the opinion
that it would not be expedient to propose the,
total repeal of the Apothecaries' Act.—(Hear, hear.)
It was his intention to propose to the House to repeal the
Apothecaries' Act only so far as the parties registered under his
Bill were concerned. The effect of this partial repeal of the
Act would be this. Complaints were made against his sill of
last session that he provided by it nos sufficient security against
empirical practice, and that, not satisfied with this, he in addi-
tion proposed to remove all the existing penalties against such
practice. He did not attach much value to these penalties, but
still the effect of this partial repeal of the Apothecaries' Act
would be this, that it left these penalties untouched in the
entire form in which they at present existed. He should also
propose an additional security, one which he thought was
quite justifiable and consistent with sound principle. He should
propose that no person, not possessing the proper qualification,
and not coming up to the requisite standard, should venture to
practise medicine without subjecting himself always to the
risk of the criminal prosecution to which any one was still
liable by the general operation of the law for pretend-
ing to be that which he was not. He could not see
why an attempt to carry such an enactment should be objected
to. He would here mention that this system of a registration
of medical practitioners had been attempted in the United
States, and had been attended with very good effect. By this
Bill he proposed that any person wins should call or declare
himself, or assume the title or designation of a physician, sur-
geon, apothecary, or doctor, or any other title recognised by
this Bill, should be liable to prosecution. But, in reference
to this part of the measure, perhaps the best course would be
to read this clause of the Bill to the House.
It was this : " Every unregistered person who
should falsely pretend to be, or take or use any
name, or title of physician, doctor, bachelor, of
the faculty of medicine, or surgeon, or licentiate of medicine,
or apothecary, or any other name or title recognised as that of
a medical or surgical practitioner, should be guilty of a mis-
demeanor, and be punishable by such fine or imprisonment,
or both, as the court befote which he should be convicted
should award," He hail thought it necessary to give to the
public this protection against empirical practice of the science
of medicine. He should propose, also, to repeal a portion of
the Apothecaries' Act, referring to the office of examiners for
medical qualifications; by the Bill of last session it
was made necessary that in England physicians should be
the examiners for the degree of licentiates in medicine. At
present it was necessary that in England the examiners should
be members of the civic guild of the City of London. To this
guild admission could now, in point •f fact, be obtained by
purchase, by inheritance, and by election ; there was no con-
dition attached to the functions, save that the examiners must
belong to this civic guild. Now he proposed that, in future,
these examiners should be apothecaries of ten years' standing,
or licentiates of medicine for the same time; he anticipated
that, after the lain* of teu years, they might be admitted u

examiners under another name, that of general practitioners.
He came now to another alteration, which was one to which
he attached great importance. He earnestly desired that the
first entrance to the medical profession should be by oneexami-
nation, common to all, and that, after this first examination,
the practice of the science should be open and common to all
who should have passed this portal. But one objection had been
made to this principle, which, he must say, appeared reasonable,
and was indeed insuperable. Physicians had always strongly,
and, asit appeared to him, rightly, attached great importance
to an university education, whether that education was re-
ceived in one of our domestic or in a foreign university. At

cellor in that country, had taken place. He
must say that the individuals who had thus suffered were very
ill -used individuals, and that their dismissals were contrary
alike to policy and justice. The first case he had to bring be-
fore their notice was the case of Lord French. Her Majesty's
Government had always evinced the greatest anxiety to pre-
serve the Legislative Union of the two countries, and they had
dismissed Lord French for attending or intending to attend a
meeting, the object of which was to sever that legislation.
Colonel Butler, the Member for Kilkenny, whose case was
another which he had to submit to the House, in replying to
an invitatian to attend a meeting of this sort, had stated his in-
ability to leave his bed, and that. therefore he was unable
to be present. So that Colonel Butler was dismissed for
not doing the very thing which constituted the main offence of
Lord French.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. O'Driscoll, another
magistrate, had betrayed certain infirmities of temper, and he
was dism,s,ed, not for these defects, but on account of his age.
In the course of a few years Mr. O'Driscoll was reinstated,
under the supposition, he (Mr. Bellew) conceived, that in
those years he had grown younger. This would never have
been known but for the investigation which had been made in
that House. This was one of the reasons why he wished to
bring these dismissals under discussion in Parliament. The
Government had upheld the conduct of Sir E. Sugden in
these cases. Of Lord Lucan he had no personal knowledge
whatever, and he (Mr. Bellew) was simply actuated by a sense
of public duty in bringing the matter before the House, and
all the evidence he had on the subject he derived, not
from any personal connexion, but yet from Lord
Lucan himself. It appeared that the dismissal of Lord
Lucan and Mr. H. Maltby arose from a disagree-
ment between those two gentlemen in court, in which
language had been exchanged unbecoming their characters as
magistrates. In the course of their dispute Mr. O'Malley had
called Lord Lucan a liar and a scoundrel, and Lord Lucan had
called Mr. O'Malley a miscreant. After this dispute, of which
Lord Lucan had forwarded a statement to the Lord Chancellor,
he at the same time intimated that it was impossible for him to
remain in the commission of the peace if Mr. O'Malley were
retained. With this statement Lord Lucan had forwarded
several county newspapers on each side, so that there should be
no unfairness. In the progress of the matter four or five letters
passed, and at length the Under-Secretary was directed to stab()
to Lord Lucan and Mr. O'Malley, that it was his painful duty
to inform them that the Lord Chancellor had deemed it neces-
sary to erase the names of both off the list. Under such cir-
cumstances how could it be possible for his Lordship and Mr.
O'Malley to retain that respect as magistrates which was so es-
sential to the due administration of justice.? Lord Lucan
sometime afterwards complained that the Irish papers had
attacked his character, and the motive he gave for this was
that they intended to " write him out" of the commission of
the peace, and to prevent his being appointed the Lord-Lieu-
tenant of the county. He stated that the Lord-Lieutenant of
Ireland, through the medium of his secretary, had expressed to
Mr. O'Malley that the measures pursued by the Lord Chan-
cellor of Ireland ( Sir Edward Sugden) had received his fullest
approbation. Now he (Mr. Bellew) recollected that the
Right Hon. Baronet stated, in that House, that the conduct
of the Noble Lord (Earl De Grey) in the administration of
Ireland met with his entire approbation. Earl De Grey re-
tired, but Lord Eliot remained in that government. When
the circumstances came ander the consideration of that
Parliament, Lord Wharncliffe, as one of the members
of the Government, was disposed to put a favourable
construction on the conduct of the Noble Lord, and the
Lord Chancellor (Lord Lyndhurst) stated that he did not
feel himself justified in giving an opinion then upon the merits
of the case, but he afterwards said that the Chancellor of
Ireland was bound to remove the Noble Lord, and in so doing
his conduct met his (Lord Lyndhurst's) approbation. Let
them refer for a moment to the accumulation of evidence in
that respect. They had, in the first place, the correspond-
ence of Lord Lucan himself, there were five or six letters
from him and from Mr. O'Malley. Then they had the
opinions of Lords Elliot, Wharncliffe, and Lyndhurst—yet
after all this, would it be believed, that Lord Lucan was
appointed to preside over the magistracy of that very county
he had formerly been dismissed from. Let them look at the
effect of this procedure—this placing him at the head of that
local magistracy. It might be said by the defenders of the
Government that they had no choice, and were therefore
compelled to make that appointment. But the case was not
so. They might have appointed Lord Strangford, who had
taken no part in politics. There were many other noblemen
who could equally have been chosen to fill that high position,
and many of them would have given more satisfaction than that
of Lord Lucan. In the late trials in Ireland, one of the charges
brought forward against Daniel O'Connell was, that he had
brought into contempt the administration of justice. But
could Government for a moment doubt that the proceeding
they were then discussing would tend, more than anything
ever done by Daniel O'Connell, to bring the magistracy into
contempt? It had been said by the Right Hon. the Secretary
for Ireland that that country was as much an integral por-
tion of the empire as Yorkshire or Wiltshire was. But
would that proceeding have been for a moment tolerated in
either of those counties? He (Mr. Bellew) had often heard
in that House that the union with Ireland must be maintained,
the Church upheld, and the law respected.—( Hear, hear, and
laughter.) Now, considering that they heard these words,
" the law respected," at the very time that this appointment
was being made, he thought it a perfect mockery.—( Hear,
hear.) They were all aware of the great difference between
this country and Ireland as respected outrages against the law,
not because there was less crime in England, but because the
law was more justly and fairly administered. The impression
had been created that the appointment of Lord Lucan was an
unjust one, but the lower classes reasoned that
he was supported by a great many friends in
the Government, by whom his faults were overlooked.
He was of opinion that the unpaid magistracy should be above
all suspicion, and it was most important that they should con-
duct themselves in such a manner as to command the respect
of the people. This appointment of Lord Lucan had a ten-
dency to create instead of removing an impression calculated to
bring the law into contempt; and it was a matter of the very
highest importance that such an impression should not be
created at that time in the minds of the Irish people. It ap-
peared, from Lord Lucan'a own statement, that for two years
previous to his dismissal, he had not acted as a magistrate,
and he ( Mr. Bellew) thought it more extraordinary that he
should have acted at all. He would conclude by moving for a
return of the correspondence which took place in the years
1842, 1843, and 1844, between the Lord Chancellor of Ire-
land and the Earl of Lucan, relative to the dismissal of the
latter from and subsequent restoration to the magistracy; also
for a copy of the Commission appointing the said Earl of
Lucan Lord-Lieutenant of the county of Mayo.
Sir T. FREMANTLE said that there could be no objec-
tion to the production of the papers, for he believed that it
was perfectly well known that they had been ordered in the
other House upon the motion of the Noble Earl (Lucan) him-
self. —( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Louth had com-
menced his address by telling the House of the jealousy with
which the delinquencies of magistrates were regarded in Eng-
land, and that, on the contrary, those delinquencies were
passed lightly over by the Government in Ireland. The Hon.
Gentleman referred, as an instance, to the case of a Noble
Duke who, upon being accused of impropriety in the discharge
of his duty as a magistrate, was obliged to set himself right
with the Government and the public by bringing an action
at law. Now, the fact in the case of the Noble Duke
referred to was, that the Noble Lord had brought the action
of his own accord, and that the Government took no part in
the matter whatever. But, contrary to the opinion of the
Hon. Member for Louth, the present Lord Chancellor of Ire-
land had frequently marked his sense of improper conduct on
the part of magistrates, by dismissing them from the commis-
sion,—( Hear, hear.) And such was the case in reaped to
Lord Lucan himself.—( Hear, hear.)
After what occurred at
Casrlebar, the Lord Chancellor thought it his duty to dismiss
the Noble Earl. But after an interval, and after the infliction
of that severe punishment, the Lord Chancellor thought it not
inconsistent with his duty to replace him. All the members of
the Government in the House of Lords approved of the con-
duct of the Lord Chancellor, and thought that there could be
no objection to placing the Noble Lord in his proper position
as Lord-Lieutenant of his county.—( Hear, hear.) Was it to
be contended that one offence, or rather an accidental error—
the use of a single word under circumstances of great
provocation having been visited with the severest
censure that could be passed by the Lord Chancellor, was to
last as a stigma for Lord Lucan's whole life, and that he should
be considered no longer worthy to serve her Majesty, or to
take his place in the county in which he lived on an equal
footing with the other gentlemen ?—( Hear, hear.) The Hon.
Gentleman had said that he (Sir T. Fremantle), in a recent
statement, spoke of conciliating Ireland and of maintaining the
laws impartially ; and he said that the conduct of the Lord
Chancellor and the Irish Government in the case of Lord
Lucan was a contradiction of that statement.—( Hear, hear.)
Now he (Sir T. Fremantle) insisted that the law had been
fully vindicated by the removal of Lord Lucan from the com-
mission of the peace in the first instance ; and that there was
nothing contradictory in replacing him after the lapse of a con-
siderable time, especially as his hasty conduct had been pro-
voked by conduct studiously provoscing on the part
of the person to whom he made use of an angry expression.
Lord Brougham had said that no stigma could lie on the No-
ble Lord after the explanation he had given ; and Lord
Campbell had also said that Sir Edward Sugden might have
fallen into an error in other matters, but no imputation could
rest upon him after the expression Lord Lucan had given of
his sorrow at what had occurred.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said he had listened with some
attention to the speech of the Hon Member for Buckingham,
and he could not help expressing his regret at hearing the Hen.
Member speak in praise of the manner in which the Govern-
ment had followed up this strange proceeding, as well as at the
Honourable Member himself attempting to justify this
very extraordinary proceeding. He would appeal to
any other Hon. Member of that House, and he
would ask them if a magistrate of their county had been dis-
missed for a gross insult in a court of justice to another magis-
trate, what would they think of the conduct of the Govern-
ment wholeould not only reinstate the magistrate commiting
this outrage, but place him at the very head of those mis-
trates by making him Lord-Lieutenant of the county—
(
Hear, hear.) He would ask Hon. Members opposite which
of them would endure it?—(Hear, hear.) He would repeat it
for the third time, and ask was there one amongst them who
would bear it?—(Cries of " Hear, hear," from Lord
Ingestrie.) Oh ! the Noble Lord, the Member for Stafford-
shire, would.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) He would ask,
was there another Member who would? No, not one.—
( Hear, hear.) It had been said that they in Ireland were
very sensitive people; but with such conduct as this before
them, and that, too, the conduct of a Government
professing conciliation to his countrymen, was it to
be wondered at that they should feel aggrieved ?
( Cries of Hear, hear.") But he would pass by
this part of the subject; he would not further allude to the
delinquencies of other magistrates, though he was one of those
who, after having held for eight years the commission of the
dismissed,
h not for any misconduct, but for
is political opinions, and therefore
peace, had
given )seene expression
ession
he did not deem it any dishonour.---( Hear, hear.) But if
delinquencies such as had been attributed to Lord Lucan were
to be not only passed by, but be rewarded with promotion,
he would ask was it to be wondered at that the Irish people
had no great confidence in the administration of justice towards
them ?—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet opposite
had said that Lord Lucan had been sufficiently punished ;
but that punishment put him very much in mind of people
who took the total abstinence pledge for good example sake,
and then broke it because it was inconvenient to keep it any
longer.—( Hear, hear.) The Honourable Member op-
posite had said he assumed that the Irish Lord
Chancellor was right in dismissing Lord Lucan, but that he
had expressed regret soon after for the language he had used
which caused his dismissal ; but let Hon. Members opposite
remember that it was before, and not since, the Noble Lord
had been dismissed, that he had expressed this regret. The
Noble Lord had not expressed any regret on the subject after-
wards, that he (Mr. O'C.) was aware of; but he was
aware that the Noble Lord had said in his place in the House
of Lords, that his dismissal was an act of the grossest injustice,
and that if the other magistrate who had been dismissed with
him should be restored, he would look upon that as an
act of still greater injustice.—( Hear, hear.) There were
other matters which he might bring forward, but he would
not trespass longer upon the attention of the House. He
must beg, however, permission to remind Hon. Members of the
last public appearance in Ireland of the Noble Lord, previous
to his restoration. It was on the occasion of his refusal to
grant a lease of building ground for the purpose
of establishing a convent by an order called the Sisters of
Charity. The Noble Lord refused upon grounds which turned
out afterwards to be a miserable subterfuge to conceal his in-
tolerable bigotry. It was very well for the Government to
talk of their intentions towards Ireland, but their measures
would prove of no avail if, day after day; and week after week,

present they enforced an examination before a general tri-
bunal ; that examination was an early one, and that early ex-
amination was made before a general tribunal, that examination
not being inconsistent with the long study and education neces-
sary to the accomplished physician. Some difficulty had been
felt as to the limitation of tthe age before which such examina-
tion for physicians should be undergone ; he did not
think, on the whole, thirty-six would be too late a period of
life. But with respect to surgeons, he thought the objec-
tion on this point would not apply. An university education
did not form so invariably, or by any means so frequently,
a part of the medical education even of the most accom-
plished surgeons ; this objection, therefore, did not apply to
them, and he hal the satisfaction of saying, that, as far as
the inquiries he had made went, there would not be on this
subject any objection en the part of the College of Surgeons
to a proposal which he thought would be a great improve-
ment on the Bill of last se'sion. lie proposed that no persons
should, under this Bill, be qualified to act as surgeons, unless
they had previously been examined as a licentiate in surgery.
There was also a provision in the Bill which appeared to be

a departure from this principle of uniform examination; the
difference, however, was more in appearance than
reality. It was in the proposal to which he attached
considerable importance that there should be an examination in
midwifery, in addition to that of medicine and surgery. He
proposed that the council of health should be, by a provision of
the Act, empowered to examine general practitioners for all
three parts of the United Kingdom, in midwifery also, those
practitioners to be distinguished on the registry by a mark
against their names, denoting that they had passed this
examination. Now, his Hon. Friend the Member for Middle-
sex had just presented a petition, in which a request was made
that medical practitioners should be incorporated. He had
given his most anxious consideration to this subject, and at all
events he did not wish to preclude himself by any stipulation
on the subject, from adopting that suggestion till the pro-
fession at large should have had an opportunity of considering
the measure.—( Hear, hear.) There was another important
alteration he wished to propose to the House. He had last
year proposed to repeal the Apothecaries' Act, and entirely to
obliterate it. But he had now departed from that intention,
and would not totally repeal that enactment. A separation which
he should have deeply regretted, between the general practitioner
and the College of Surgeons, might have been, in some de-
gree at least, apprehended as a consequence of his measure of
last session. He thought he had modified his measure, in this
respect, in a very important degree. He proposed that no
person should be qualified to practice as a surgeon without pre-
viously passing an examination as a licentiate of surgery.
He would not now anticipate the discussion that would cer-
tainly arise on the question of new charters to Medical Corpo-
rations. But it had been thought necessary to introduce into
the College of Surgeons, for the first time, a peculiar order
which existed in every other medical college in Eng-
land, Scotland, and Ireland, without exception—
namely, the order of Fellows of that College.—( Hear. )
It had been thought necessary to create this order, as the con-
stituent body of the elective council of the College.—( Hear,
hear.) He was not now arguing the question—he was only
stating the difficulties that in the change would have to be
overcome, but, if they were surmounted, and the connexion
between the College of Surgeons and the general practitioners
preserved, he was convinced that this latter class would become
more noble and more useful than it had been at any ante-
cedent period. Now, reserving to himself a full right of con-
sidering the policy of advising the Crown to grant charters of
incorporation, he confessed he should be driven to give that
advice with the greatest possible reluctance, were he
not anxious to sustain the character, the standing, and
position of the general practitioners. He thought they were
the most useful body of men in the community.—( Hear.)
In large cities, where great numbers of people were congre-
gated, a division of labour was not only possible in the profes-
sion, but led to excellence, to increased skill, and greater re-
muneration. In cities, therefore, it was possible to divide the
medical profession into the physician, the surgeon, and the
general practitioner, arid this division had actually arisen from
the force of circumstances. But dealing, as it was his duty to
do, with the interest of the entire community, he could not
dissemble from himself the fact, that the great body of the
poorer population, covering the greater area of the kingdom,
must look to the general practitioner for assistance, and he
thought it was his first duty to the public to do all in his power
to uphold the character and position of the general practitioner.
He now sincerely stated that he entertained the greatest doubt
whether it would be for their advantage, and for the honour
and dignity of the profession, that they should be separated
from the College of Surgeons ; and he entertained the san-
guine hope of connecting the general practitioner with the
College of Surgeons. He was most anxious that the altera-
tions which he tendered in the most conciliatory spirit, might
meet with the wishes of the general practitioners, whose opi-
nions he was most anxious to obtain. He had given the whole
subject his most serious consideration, and the changes he pro-
pesed were the result of it. He considered it indispensably
necessary for the whole profession, that the body of the several
practitioners should be connected with the Collegeof Surgeons,
a noble institution. which had produced the most eminent
surgeons in Europe, which had one of the finest museums
in the world, and which was renowned for the
progress which it had made in the science of human
physiology. It was impossible that this arrangement could
be otherwise than that of conferring honour and distinction
on the general practitioner. He could not anticipate from
any other arrangement equal benefit to the general practitioner.
He would pass en to another alteration in the Bill of last
year. Previously to qualifying as a physician, the Bill im-
posed as a necessary condition that the candidate should, for
the three years immediately preceding examination, have re-
sided in the University. Upon consideration, he found it
would be wholly impossible to carry out this provision. He
therefore proposed to substitute two years after examination,
or three years antecedent. And instead of three years' resi-
dence in a Foreign University, one year was proposed. He
now came to the question of the constitution of the Councils.
If he had filled any other station he would have ventured to
have proposed to the House some alterations in this respect.
His own judgment led him to believe that, upon the whole, it
would be far safer to leave to the Government, acting upon its
responsibility to Parliament, the power of nomination. But
he felt it necessary, situated as he was, to depart in some re-
spects from this principle ; but, upon the whole, he would ad-
here to the plan for the formation of a Council proposed in
the Bill of last session. The matter was still open to discus-
sion. but he intended to make it a condition that the nomina-
tion of six members of the Council should be reserved to the
Crown ; and that a portion of those six, so appointed,
should be general practitioners and country practitioners, for
it was only fair that those important classes should be re-
presented at the Board. In the Bill of last year there was a
deficiency which he now proposed to remedy. It conferred
no power on the Council to remove from the registry men who
had been guilty of flagrant misconduct. By the alterations
under the Bill, it gave a power of removing from the re-
gistry any party who had been convicted before any courts of
law, or who had practised, or attempted to practice upon false
testimonials. There was one other alteration. He proposed
to give to the faculty of physicians and surgeons in Glas-
gow equal and co-ordinate powers of licensing with
the College of Physicians and Surgeons in Edinburgh. By
the Bill of last year, he had conferred on the Glasgow Col-
lege the power of licensing both in surgery and medicine ; but
subsequent experience had convinced him that they could have
no such power. The question had been raised before the Su-
preme Court in Scotland, and it was clearly proved that the
Glasgow College had no power of licensing, and that the power
existed only in the College of Physicians and Surgeons in
Edinburgh. He was not aware of any other important change.
He had pointed out such alterations as he thought were neces-
sary, and so far from those alterations being at vari-
ance with the great objects of the measure, they were
perfectly consistent with it. He had been anxious
to avail himself of all the discussion which had taken place on
the subject, and had not been at all affected by the angry spirit
which had been infused into those discussions. He had
endeavoured to take a calm and dispassionate view of
the subject, being perfectly disinterested, and having only one
desire, that of promoting the public welfare. He would not
consider that his labour had been thrown away in the least de-
gree, if he were fortunate enough to introduce some improve-
ments in this most useful profession. He would not now press
the measure upon the consideration of the House, but would
give time for further discussion and further consideration.
But he hoped this session would not close without some
measure beneficial to the profession receiving the sanction of
that House, and passing into law.—(Cheers.) The Right
Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving for leave to bring in a
Bill for the better regulation of medical practice throughout
the United Kingdom.
Mr. WAKLEY heard the statement of the Right Hon.
Gentleman with the greatest satisfaction; and he now believed
that the difficulties which pressed upon the subject would be
amicably arranged and finally settled. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had shown by the alteration which he proposed his anxiety
to meet the wishes of all departments of the profession. He
believed the Right Hon. Gentleman and the Government
had not been at all aware of the difficulties which beset this
question when they first took it in hand. There were so many
interests involved in it. so many laws affecting the profession, so
many rights apparently opposed to one another, as well as
to common sense, that it was extremely difficult to legislate
upon it. He felt very strongly against the former Bill, and he
had so expressed himself. He thought many of its provisions
were most objectionable ; but he now felt satisfied that the
Right Hon. Gentleman, in the alterations proposed, was
anxious to conciliate all parties, and to listen to any suggestion
which might be thrown out from any side. He would now
only ask for the postponement of the second reading of the
Bill, so as to give time for full deliberation with reference to all
its provisions; and the Right Hon. Baronet would receive
the gratitude of the most important bodies of men to be found
in the country.—( Cheers.)
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
Sir J. GRAHAM moved for leave to bring in a Bill to en-
able her Majesty to grant new charters to certain Colleges of
Physicians and Surgeons. He heard with great satisfaction
the speech of the Hon. Member for Finsbury. He would ac-
cede to the postponement of the second reading of the Bill till
after Easter. In compliance with this feeling, he was quite
ready to lay on the table of the House four charters. Those
charters were, a charter for the physicians of London, another
for the physicians of Dublin, another for the physicians of
Edinburgh, and another for the College of Surgeons in Edin-
burgh. These, he thought, would sufficiently secure the ob-
jects he had in view.

Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
DISMISSAL OF MAGISTRATES IN IRELAND.

Mr. BELLEW said that he rose to move for the return of
which he had given notice, of any correspondence which took
place in the years 1442, 1843, and 1844, between the Lord
Chancellor of Ireland and the Earl of Lucan, relative to the
dismissal of the latter from, and subsequent restoration to, the
magistracy; also for a copy of the Commission appointing the
slid Earl of Lucan Lord-Lieutenant of the county of Mayo.
In making this motion, he (Mr. Bellew) was folly aware
that the House had been engaged during the last week
in the discussion of matters of much more general
interest than the business which he had to bring before them.
But he did not hesitate to say that none of those matters
created a deeper anxiety than that which he was about to sub-
mit to the House. It was a subject in which the public in
this country always took the most lively interest. When last
year the misconduct of a police magistrate had been publicly
noticed, not twenty-four hours had elapsed before the matter
was brought before the House ; and they had the assurance of
the Secretary of State for the Hone Department that his at-
tention should be directed to it. When, also, last year the
conduct of another magistrate had been brought under consi-
deration in a court of law—he alluded to the observations
which were made in the case of the Queen v. Humphries upon
the conduct of the Duke of Marlborough—the Duke of
Marlborough was Lord-Lieutenant of the county of Oxford—
aryl it was necessary for the Noble Duke to give suffi-
cient evidence of his general efficiency as a Ma-
gistrate in order to prevent his dismissal from the
commission. He (Mr. Bellew) wished that there was the
same sensitiveness in her Maiesty's Government in the case of
Lord Lucan. His (Mr. Bellew's) motion had as a particular
object to ascertain on what principle the dismissals of magis-
trates from the commission of the peace in
Ireland, since Sir Edward Sugden had been Chan-

'ACHE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 26, 1845.

they were to be goaded by such a man as thi3. The people
of Ireland fully understood the vacillating movements of the
Government, who took a little step at one moment to annoy
the extreme Orange party, and at another, a movement to an-
noy the Roman Catholic party.—(No.) They were not so
blind as to be unable to distinguish between their vacillating in-
decision and the impartial justice to which Ireland was en-
titled.—( Cheers. )
Mr. T. B. C. SMITH reminded the House that, iu the course
of the session of 1843, the same transaction was brought forward
in another place, when Hon. Gentlemen opposite complained
bitterly of the Government for having removed the Earl of
Lucan from the commission of the peace.—( Hear, hear.) On
that occasion Lord Campbell said Sir Edward Sugden, the Lord
Chancellor of Ireland, had fallen into an error of judgment in
dismissing Lord Lucan from the magistracy, and now a com-
plaint was made of his restoration. In the October of the fol-
lowing year, 1843, the Noble Lord was restored, and the whole
of the last session of Parliament had been allowed to intervene
before one word was said upon the subject. When the Noble Lord
was removed from the magistracy, an Hon. Member complained
of its injustice, and now the Government were attacked for
having restored him. The fact was, the Hon. Member
did not care how they raised an imaginary Irish grievance.
Having said so much respecting the way in which Irish griev-
ances were got up, he would take the liberty of doing that
which the two Hon. Gentlemen who had spoken on the other
side of the House had not done—viz., stating to the House the
facts of this ease. It appeared that the Earl of Lucan had,
two years previous to the transaction in question, removed Mr.
O'Malley, as agent of his estate. From that time Mr.
O'Malley took every opportunity of trespassing on Lord
Lucan's estate. On one occasion he met Lord Lucan's game-
keeper, and commenced a volley of abuse about Lord Lucan. That
led to Mr. O'Malley being summoned before the magistrates
in petty sessions. It pas true that Lord Lucan appeared in
court on the bearing of the case, but took his place amongst
the strangers in the court. This was stated in the Newry
Telegraph, a newspaper opposed in politics to Lord Lucan.
, The Right Hon. Gentleman then read from the above news-
, paper, a, report of the proceedings which (took place on the
hearing of the case before the magistrates, After such lan-
guage as that used by Mr. O'Malley was it to be wondered at
that Lord Lucan should be irritated? He was satisfied that
the House would be of opinion that they had acted properly
in depriving Lord Lucan of the commission of the peace, but
having for a time deprived him of the commission they thought
it right to restore him.
Mr. ROSS thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman the
Attorney-General must have taken a brief against the Lord
Chancellor( Hear, hear)—for he had shown that the Lord
Chancellor was wrong. But he wanted to prove, that be-
cause they were right in depriving Lord Lucan of the com-
mission, they were also right in restoring him. That appeared
to him to be a strange doctrine. The Irish Government
seemed to be proceeding on the principle of amendment by
rustication.—( Hear, hear.) But while they overlooked the
offence of which Lord Luca. had been guilty, they deprived
his Hon. Friend and others of the Commission for entertaining
certain political opinions. This seemed to him to be like the
case of Alt. O'Driscoll, to which he directed the attention of
the House last year. In that ease it was that Dineen, who
was so inhumanly treated, had the law opened to him ; but that
reminded him of what Horne Tooke said, in a similar case, that
the London Tavern was open to him.
The motion was then agreed to.
ART UNIONS.

Mr. WYSE moved for the re-appointment of the Select
Committee on art unions.—Agreed to.

WINDOW DUTY.

Captaia PECHELL moved for a return of the number of
appeals against charges made in respect of windows, from the
Ist day of January, 1839, to the 31st day of January, 1844, in
which the surveyors of the Crown have appeared before the
Commissioners to sustain the several assessments to the duties
thereon.

After some observations from Mr. CARDWELL and Mr.
COLLETT, strangers were ordered to withdraw, but the motion
was negatived without a division.
Sir J. GRAHAM brought up the Medical Reform Bill,
which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second
time on the 7th of April.
The House then adjourned at One o'clock.