The Sun.
London, England, 1842-08-02 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, AUGUST 2, 1844

that there is no firm and honest-hearted pilot at the helm.
Your own intelligence, your own virtue, your own energy must
deliver yet!. The truth vie have espoused is inextinguishable.
and error and selfishness and lust of power must speedily fall
before it.
o We now separate. We return to the country to labour in-
oessantly for the accomplishment of the great object of the
League—the total and immediate repeal of the Corn-law, and
we are prepared to re-assemble at such time and place as the
Council in IManchester may determine. Hitherto we have en-
deavoured to merit the confidence of our fellow-citizens, arid
we trust we shall not be found unequal to any emergency which
may arise.
"Providence has given plenty; a few men of wealth and
title have opposed their mandate to the will of Heaven. 'Shall
mortal man be more just than God ? '
" Palace-yard, August 1, 1842."
The reading of this address was received with marked appro-
bation by the meeting, and on Mr. Bright's moving that it be
adopted by the Conference, and circulated throughout the
United Kingdom,
Mr. II vela, M.P. rose. He said that understanding that the
present was to be the last, or nearly the last, meeting of the
Conference, he was anxious to take the opportunity of-address-
ing the Delegates assembled. The gentleman who had spoken
the last but one, seemed to think that the cause had suffered
because, in the House of Commons, there was not a second
Hampden. Now he (Mr. Hume) must say, that during his
experience in Parliament for upwards of thirty }cars, he
had never known of any question which had been more fre-
quently, more powerfully, or more zealously brought before
the House of Commons, than that very question of the dis-
tressed situation of the country, and the evil resulting from
the maintenance of the Corn-laws. The gentleman who had
made the observation to which he (Mr. flame) now replied,
would perhaps find souse other cause to account for the want
of success attending the efforts of the friends of the people in
Parliament. He would, perhaps, find that the House of
Commons, as at present constituted, was an assembly in which
the preponderance of political power was possessed by the mo-
nopolist party—a party which was supported by the established
clergy of the country—(Hear, hear )—a party supported by a
great majority of the Magistracy throughout the oountry (for
during the Whig Administration but few of the Liberal party
had been appointed to the Magistracy)—a party whictt, though
in many instances opposed to the measures which their „leaders
proposed, yet kept together as one man. He regretted
that the same unanimity did not prevail among the Opposition
party and the friends of the people. He urged the necessity of
union among the operatives and their employers, which coua.i
alone enable them to succeed in their views. He dwelt on the
good that would result from the middle classes uniting at the
• next general election in sending to Parliament men who would
advance the'cause of the millions. If such had been done at
'the list election Sir Robert Peel could not, with his mutes be-
hind him, strangle, as he had done in the present session, the
...measures productive of advantage to the people. He (Sir R.
" Peel) would have been forced to bring forward measures more
in consonance with the wishes and interests of the people. 'they
:', must then change the present system. Without doing so
-there was not a ray of hope for the people. lie referred, in
, terms of eulogy. to the great exertions of the Hon. .11embers
for Stockport arid Wolverhampton (Mr. Cobden and Mr. Vi!-
hers) in the cause of their distressed countrymen, and pointed
out benefits to be derived from drawing the attention of the
people during the recess to the cause of their sufferings. and
,the only remedy to be had for them, and expressed his opinion
that the working of the Inceme-tax, with its inquisitorial
machinery, its Tory Commissioners, its exposures of men's
affairs, &c., would do much to teach the people what they had
to expect from a Tory Government. He had no further advice
to give them, except to urge them to do everything in their
power to effect a union with the working classes.—( Cheers. )
They must have the millions acting with the middle classes.—
(Cheers.) It only rested with themselves to have trade with
all the world. He could not admit that they could never have
any great trade with Europe. They might yet recover much
that they had lost, if free trade were not postponed to too remote a
period.—( Cheers.) He had seen in the American papers a
report laid on the table of Congress and the Committee on the
tariff in May last. The Committee in that report declared
that it was the policy and the desire of the United States to
enter into commercial regulations with every natiou on the
basis of equity, reciprocity, and fair competition ; but that the
Government of Great Britain, by its system of restrictions and
prohibitions, imposed upon the Government of the United
States the necessity of adopting a retaliatory policy—( Cheers )
but to show how desirous they were to establish equitable com-
mercial relations with Great Britain, they desired that the
President would enter into negotiations with Great Britain for
the purpose of establishing, if possible, commercial relations
between the two countries on a sound and equitable basis.—
( Cheers.) He hoped the subject would not escape the atten-
tion of Lord Ashburton. The nations of the continent of Europe
were equally desirous of entering into commercial relations
with us. Prussia, Germany, and Sweden, bad endeavoured to
do so; and the reason why these desires had not been complied
with was, as Lord Palmerston said, because the landed interest
would not allow of free trade in timber and corn. The landed
interest, then, was the cause of their present evils. If the re-
peal of the Corn-laws was carried, they would sown have the
landed gentt v themselves clamouring for free trade in every
thing else. lie had great doubt, unless the question of free
trade were carried, whether the public faith could be kept—
(hear, hear)—and no event could be more lamentable for
the working classes than any breach of the public faith. He
felt the League had already conferred great benefit on the pub-
lic, and he urged them to continue their exertions strenuously
during the recess.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. VILLIERS, AI. P., rose, and was received with loud
cheering.—He had hitherto abstained from presenting himself
to the Conference, because he was unable to forward their object
by communicating to them any local information, but he could
not help taking that occasion to express his opinion that by their
assembling in London, as they had done, during the present
Conference, they had conferred a great benefit on the country.
The public had been, in consequence, more fully apprised of the
distressed condition of the country ; they had been m ire clearly
how that distress had been produced by bail legislation.— I
( Cheers.) He thought that while the present defective state
of the representation continued it would be well to have a Con-
ference permanently sitting to watch over the proceedings in
Parliament. It had already done good by operating as a check
upon those foolish assertions which were wont to be put forth as
replies to the arguments for repeal.—(Cheers.) They had pre-
sented- the Corn-laws in their real character before the public—
they had deprived those laws of all moral support.—(Cheers. )
The Corn-laws were now only supported by a nume-
rical majority in the House, and an interested and intimi-
dated constituency out of doors.—(Loud cheers.) The great
hope of the opponents of the repeal was that the working
classes did not sympathise with the League. He (Mr. Villiers)
was by no means disposed to admit that such was the case, for
he could not admit that those disturbances of the public meet-
ings which had taken place were spontaneous manifestations of
the opinions of the working classes.—( Loud cheers.) But-
even if it were, that was no more an argument against the
repeal of the Corn-law than the fact that on some occasions the
slaves had committed outrages against those who were doing
their utmost to emancipate them, could: be considered as an ar-
gument against the abolitien of slavery.—( Cheers.) He believed
that those who bad been guilty of these interruptions were the
victims of interest and corruption—(Cheers)—and he thought
too highly of the working classes to believe that as a body they
were nor, fully aware of the importance to their own interests
of a repeal of the Corn-laws.—( Cheers.) He had once argued
the question with one who was no warm friend of the people,.
and who had said to him (Mr. Villiers) " I do not dispute
your argument, but a free trade in corn would be like the
addition of so much more fertile land to the country, and we
should have the working classes as impudent and independent
as they are in America."—(Cheers.) He believed it would
render them independent, and that would be the first step
towards gaining their political rights, and therefore, as a
friend to the enfranchisement of the people, he was
trill more zealous for a repeal of the Corn-laws.—
( Loud Cheers.) The supporters of the laws depended
on the ignorance and corruption of the people, but they would
signally fail. They dare not stop the Press, they dare not stop
tits. public expression of opinion ; the people were becoming
educated, and they could not be blinded to the fact that it was
for their interest that these laws should be repealed. —( Cheers.)
Ile believed it was only because the Government calculated on
the disunion and ignorance of the people that they disregarded
evidence presented to them as to the condition of the country.
—.Cheers.) Henceforth the League would be spared some
trouble, for many of the fallacies by which the Corn-law had
been supported had been completely exploded. They could no
longer delude the labouring population with the idea that these
laws improsed their condition. They could not cheat the
capitalist and the manuatturer into the belief that markets
Jetted be made by Act of Parliament.—(Cheers.) Their efforts
might now be usefully directed in their respective localities
to show the connection between increased taxation and in-
creased poor-rates, and these laws. The Income-tax had been
rovilered necessary solely through the existence of these re-
strictive laws. Mr. Huskisson, in the last speech he ever made
in Parliament, had predicted that if the Corn-laws and the
*ether laws restricting commermi, were suffered to remain unte •
'pealed, there would be a falling off in the revenue, and the only
resource they would have to fail back upon would be the impo-
sition of an Income-tax.—( Cheers.) Every Chancellor of the
Exchequer admitted that the revenue was greatly increased by
an abundant harvest, and seriously diminished by a bad one.
Now if they would open the ports they would have constant
rod harvests—( Cheers)—for they could always command
abundance of food.—( Cheers.) Then there was the sugar mo-
nopoly. By the laws prohibiting the importation of foreign sugar,
the revenue lost three millions a year, just the amount of the
Income-tax.—(Cheers.) Then, with regard to local taxation,
pauperism increased. and rates increased, as the price of food
got higher, and were reduced as the price of food became re-
elueed, Let them, when they heard men complain of the pres-
sure of Income-tax and the poor-rates, point to these laws as the
cause, and let them discover in the different constituencies those
who had voted for monopolists at the last election, and hold i
them responsible for the imposition of this tax.—(Cheers.)
Let them endeavour to find out who really wished to support
shine laws. Sir It. Peel and the Vice-President of the Board
of Trade hail, in the House of Commons, put forth as good free
trade yrinciples in their speechev as any member of the League
could have gone, but they, it was said, could not repeal the
Corn-law., because there was a Parliamertary majority
in favour of that law. Many members of that mejo-
rity, it was said, would be glad to see the law repealed, but the
constituencies were in its favour. Now they were told by
others, that this was exclusively a middle class question. Ile
should like much to discover who really was in favour of
.ventinuing these laws.._( Loud cheers.) He urged the
League to continue their exertions, and assured them that the
more they were villitied and sneered the more certain they
might be that they were rendering essential service to the
cause of free trade.—(Cheers. )
Mr. Coapaee M.P., rose, and was most enthusiastically
greeted. The Hon. Gentleman said they were going to sepa-
rate, not to dissolve.—(Cheers.) They were only going to
shift their encampment like a Mahratta tribe, to return
again, when least expected. They had been invited to adopt
another course, but he did not see how they could do so
without dissolving the League.—( Cries of " No, no.") They
could not, as an Anti-Corn-law League, enter upon any other
question whatever.—( Cheers.) It would be dishonourable in
ebein to connect themselves with any other agitation. —( Cheers. )
The funds for their support had been contributed by persons
of almost every shade of political opinion.—( Cheers.) A great
deal had been contributed by the fair sex—(Cheers)-7,0000.
had been sent by the Manchester ladies as the produce of their
• late bazaar—( Loud cheers)—and he was happy to say that
;slab greater part of it was still in the bank.—( Loud cheers. )
'lnc best Corn-law repeaters he knew were the la,ties
!cif Matichester. Under these circumstances, the League
.could not honourably mix itself up with any other agitation.
"The only way would be to dissolve the League.—(" 110, no.")
7Now was there any other agitation for the purpose of attaining
all the objects of the League and something more, so ripe, and
with such a bulk of people at its back, as to authorise the con-
ductors of it to say to the Anti-Corn League " Get out of our
. war, you are hindering us from accomplishing our object ?" He
thought there was none such.--( Cheers, and cries of " No !
Yes ! yes!") Now, as a practical man, he was accus-
-tweed to take stock, and be wanted to know where that agita-
aion was to be found.—(Cheers.) It was intimated that they
should join the Chartists.—(Cheers.) If by that were meant I
the section of the Chartists which acknowledged Feargus O'Con- I
nor as their leader, the League had not any more inveterate
opponents in the country.—(Cheers.) The organ of the
O'Connor Chartists never omitted an opportunity of de.
nouricins.' all attempts at a repeal of the Corn.laws. It never
attacked the aristocracy.
It always
Cobden, attacked
and atita a inty
-0 'Connell, Hume, Villiers,
qaeh ) It called the Anti. Corn-law League the plague. It
- would not do to join them.—( Cheers.) Then Mr. Sturge ,
:12ad asked them to join him. He had ascertained that of the
members esf the League attending this Conference pipe out of '

I ten Were in favour of Mr. Sturge's movement ; but still, as a
body, they felt that in honour they could not join it. Was there
any party holding those opinions stronger than the League ?
No.—( Cheers.) They would not mitigate the hostility of the
aristocracy or the Tories by joining agitation for an Extension
of the Suffrage to the agitation for Corn-law repeal ; and they
might lose the support of some Whigs who were in favour of a
total and immediate repeal.—(Cheers.) When they saw a
party strong enimh to carry those objects by moral force, then
I perhaps the League might dissolve itself and join such a party.
' (Cheers.) They had been taunted with being monopolists
themselves because the people had not the suffrage. He wished
the League bad the power of giving the suffrage.—(Loud
cheers.) It had not—it had not even the power to give them
bread, although it was trying Lard to do so ; and he did not
think they would tight the battle of the suffrage one whit the
1 worse for having full bellies.—(Cheers.) They must get a
general and united expression of public opinion against these
laws, and then they must fall. The agricultural labourers had
an opinion that they were benefited by these laws ; cow they must
prove to them that the Corn-laws pauperised the people by depri v.
#
1 ing them of employment in the towns : but all these things could
I not be done at once. The repeal could not be carried by a
coup de main. No turbulence could benefit the cause.—
I ( Cheers.) No beneficial measure hod ever yet been carried
by turbulence. Never, physically speaking, were the great
1 body of the people so powerless as at the present moment.
Two regiments of Life Guards and two of Infantry, with their
shrapnel!, shells, and rockets, and other infernal instruments of
destruction, would put down any attempt of that sort, and the
i larger the number of an unorganised multitude was that was
lopposed to disciplined troops, the more fearful was the destruc-
-1 tion effected among them. They must rely solely on moral
1 means, and as long as they did so they were omnipotent.—
1 ( Loud cheers.) The question after all was with the electoral
body, and the distress would soon reach them, and make them
think. Before another year distress would have reached the
' metropolis, and when the Londoners had undergone the
same discipline as the people had in the North they would be as
ardent repealers.—(Cheers.) He bad been told they ought to
stop the supplies. Now it was only a majority of the House
of Commons that could do so ; and to make any efforts effec-
tual in the House the stoppage must begin out of doors
( Cheers.) When the time should come, he should be pre-
pared to make sacrifices to procure the repeal of those laws,
but he protested against any small martyrdom. Such an exhi-
bition would only render a great cause ridiculous--(Cheers-)
There must be a united demonstration, and there would be no
necessity for anything else, for the laws would then fall with-
-1 out trouble.—( Cheers.) He trusted that next session, night
after night, and week after week, Corn-law debates would be
raised, until the Government, like the unjust judge in Scrip-
tare, would repeal the Corn-laws to get rid of their insportu-
, nity.—(Loud cheers.) He believed that many of the sup-
porters of that law began to think they were paying too dear
, for bringing upon themselves the odium and execration of
Europe and America, arid would be glad to give it up.—
, (Cheers.) If they could get the Parliament to sit for one see-
r , sion in Manchester he would engage they would have a repeal
• of the Corn laws ; and half-a-dozen towns in England felt on
1 this subject as strongly as Manchester did, the Corn-laws
would not exist another fortnight.—(Loud cheers.)
1 Mr. O'CoNNELL, M.P., then rose, and was received with
shouts of applause, which lasted some minutes. I come 'here
I (said the Right Hon. Gentleman) to perform a simple duty—
! that of returning thanks to the Anti-Corn-law League for
j having continued thus ably their efforts in support of that
j noble cause in which we are all engaged.—( Loud cheers.) I
feel deeply grateful to there for what they have done, and in
the name of that part of the empire of which I am more par-
ticularly the representative, I return them thanks for the
manly efforts they have made to get rid of a terrific nuisance.
—(lmmense cheering.) They say that political gratitude is a
lively sense of future favours.—(A laugh.) I feel doubly grate-
ful to them, not so much on account of what they have done,
as for what they will achieve.—(Loud cheers.) if it be wrong
to tax food for the purposes of revenue, what must be the enor-
mity of that guilt which taxes it for the benefit, not of the
nation, but of one particular class of the community ?
If any man were to come to your table, and say by word of
mouth, " You shan't eat that meat for which you have paid till
you give me a share of it," I believe—l know what your am-
swer would be ; it would rather come from your foot th m your
hand.—(Cheers and laughter.) But that's what the aristo-
cracy do ; only as they make more words about it, and sur-
round it with more mysteries, the original iniquity is forgotten,
and the injury remains. It has always been said that John
Bull is an animal of good common sense, and it was illustrated
in this way ; the Frenchman boasted that the French were
great in all the arts : " For example," said they," we invented
ruffies—see what fine things lace ruffles are." " Aye, aye,"
says John Bull, " but I added the shirt to them."—(Cheers.)
That was the common sense of John Bull. But John Bull's
judgment is uow at fault, and instead of deserving the admira-
tion of the world for his good sense, he ought to be the con-
tempt of the world for enduring this monopoly, which makes
bread dear, and maintains a class legislation. The question is
how to achieve the great measure we have in view ; for I be-
lieve no one intends giving up his exertions. It may assist you
to overcome these difficulties that you take new allies,
but every one must be convinced of the iniquity of the Corn-
laws, and feel it to be his conscientious duty to persevere for
their repeal ; by perseverance alone every great object is to be
obtained.—( Cheers.) I heard with respect my respected
friend who spoke last, express his opinion with regard to mixing
up other things with the Anti-Corn-law Conference. I hear
that you have got money for the purposes of this Conference,
and 1 admire the pecuniary honesty which tells you to apply
that money to the purpose alone for which it was given you.
Honesty is always the best policy—(Cheers)—and you are
bound in honesty at least to consult the donors before you take
another step.—(Hear, hear.) It is not my own individual
opinion that you do right in separating the Anti-Corn-law agi-
tation from the agitation for the extension of the franchise. In
conjunction with others I took the liberty of submitting a pro-
position to you for the combination of both. You have decided
it adversely to the views I entertained on the subject; but I
don't repudiate your judgment because it differs from mine ; on
1 the contrary, I believe yours is the better; and however I may
be attached to my own opinion, as is natural, I give you the
benefit of the wisdom which originated your decision, more es-
pecially as I believe you have rather postponed than rejected
what I proposed—(Cheers)—it is merely a question of clock.
--(Cheers.) The time may come when it will be actually
necessary for you to take your stand by that.—
( Loud cheers.) I hope to read in the newspapers of
your forming associations everywhere; never do I like to read
of your attempting to disturb other meetings, or that you pre-
vent the expression of the free mind of Englishmen ; I am sure
you will set the example of fair play to every one; and as the
Government is menacing every public meeting by turning their
constables loose upon them, I do hope that you will never en-
courage that bad Government by first disturbing any meeting
not exactly in accordance with your own sentiments, and then
complaining that your own meetings are not allowed to take
place. I can't conceive worse policy than that, and if a bad
example be 'set by others, do you set a good one to them
(Cheers:) Let' us loOk now at the history of this session, and I
see if we can comprehend our present position. You have, re-
collect, aParliament of class legislators, a Landlord Parliament,
and a Parliament of those who, if not immediately landlords,
represent their own money, which they iniquitously and
wickedly give out to obtain a seat. And when I heard my
Hon. Friend tell you to appeal to the constituencies, I thought
it was like the play of Hamlet, with that character omitted ;
for though you shall speak to the constituencies, and may
convince them that they ought to vote for John or Thomas,
down comes the giver of gifts with 6,0001. or his 12,000/. and
away go the less powerful arguments before the golden bribe.
No man can deny that bribery did not exist in nine-tenths of
the contested seats. Look at Nottingham and Harwich. There
wasn't a town in fact where bribery did not prevail at the last
election, and where the longest purse did not carry the day.
The extent to which bribery was carried is so notorious that
my Hon. Friends have only to affirm it on one side of the
House to have it echoed by Peel and Stanley on the other.
Some one has gone so far as to call the House of Commons
a gang of bribers—what becomes then of public opinion in
your narrow constituencies? Public opinion ceases to operate
on those who are depraved enough to take bribes, and though
large bribes have been given of 410/., 50/., and 100/. at a time,
yet there are found wretches who, when they can't get 100/.
will take 305., or if they can't get that will take an attorney's
fee, 6s. Bd.—(Cheers and laughter, and a Voice, " How will
you remedy it?") Do you ask me for my remedy? My
remedy is that every Englishman should have a vote, and
should be protected by the ballot.—(Loud cheers.) I am one
of the Sturgite Chartists, and I am an opponent of the
Feargusite Chartists, because the Sturgites allow to others the
liberty they want themselves„ and that's what the Feargusites
won't: do.—(Cheers.) It's a maxim in politics, as well as in
religion, that he who w'auld not do to others as he would wish
others to do unto him, can be neither a friend to liberty
nor a Christian. Don't let any one say to me that
the Feargusites cannot be reasoned with; I say that
they are open to reason, and you should endeavour to
convince them that your object and theirs are one. Tell
them that the Anti-Corn-law Conference is the advanced
guard in the cause of liberty ; that it wants to strike down that
odious monster, monopoly ; that it wants to do away with class
legislation ; and then let the Anti-Corn-law Conference suc-
ceed, and you'll have extended suffrage six weeks afterwards.
—( Hear, hear.) And though, as a body, the Anti-Corn-law
Conference cannot take up this question, and may feel a deli-
cacy and qualms of conscience on the matter, yet there can be
no delicacy and no qualm to prevent every individual member
from working for the suffrage.— ( Cheers. ) You've no chance
of carrying your vanguard if you have not a good firm battalion
coming after to join and to assist you. You have the two now,
and they will work well together.—( Cheers.) The Feargusite
is mad who says he won't have cheap bread, and the Anti-Corn-
law man is not wise who says he will not oppose class legisla-
tion.--(Cheers.) Thus, then, we may understand each
other, and we shall go on far better for the co.operation,
full co-operation, to the extent of the six points. That full
co.eperation is essentially necessary to your success.—( Cheers. )
Just let us look what a " class Parliament " has been doing.—
(" Ugh.") I am glad to hear that sound ; I like it ; I wish
to convey to him that emitted it, that it gives an honest sound.
(Cheers.) What has this Parliament done ? It is like its
own sliding, slippery scale—sliding from every thing honest—
slippery enough. Their new scale produces no beneficial re-
sults, it is a topic to talk on in the House, and to obtain
party cheers for the Minister. I wish you had heard one of
their yells when they heard him dole out this precious scheme;
but. they do not love him a bit too much.—( Cheers.) 'I his,
then, is the first step of the new Government, which autho-
rises robbery on the poor, combined with an attempt at de-
cision. It is mockery arid insult, added to robbery arid injus-
tice ; that's your sliding-scale Corn-law.--( Cheers.) The
second step was the tariff, announcing good principles, forcing
the enemy to be convicted out of his own lips, to take up our
arguments on which to support his measures ; making him
stand convicted before the English people, of knowing the
good things, but refusing to do them—of knowing
what was right, and refusing to practise it.—( Cheers. )
They convinced you that they knew what was right, and
for base and sordid interests practised what was wrong. But
what good has the tariff done ? By its left hand free trade,
lame and limping, one leg after the other—( Laughter)—it
has done positive); injury to particular trades ; it has aug-
mented the number of unemployed ; it has given fashionable
people cheap shoes and boots, whilst it has turned the poor
shoemaker into the workhouse. Never has a more insulting
measure gone through any Parliament.—(Cheers.) I
now come to the third great measure. The Whigs, ha;/ing
done too much—having abolished too many taxes—the only
good thing I ever knew them to do—having reduced the rate
of postage, thus enabling,the poor man to correspond on the
same terms with the Duke, Peel must have a remedy to this
great iniquity, and lie brought it forth in the shape of an In-
come-tax. Look at the gross injustice of this measure, taxing
a clerk's income as if it were real property—taxing the attor-
ney's clerk of 150/. a-year, who is liable, if he cut his finger,
or have the toothache, to lose his employmeot, at as high, nay a
higher. rate than the Duke of Richmond. There is another dis-
graceful characteristic of this measure. An Englishman used to
boast that his house was his castle, and how often have I heard it
said and sung, that you mustn't enter his castle. What has
become of the castle now ? The real castle is safe enough, be-
cause a nobleman inhabits it; but the cottage, which was
poetically called " a castle," is no longer a place of security
for the hard-working man, but is constantly open to the inroads
of the tax-collector. There is one good in this measure.
" The toad, ugly and venomous, has a jewel in its head,"
When the Income-tax comes into operation, there's the toad,
and I would place it in a market town, and show it as the result
of class legislation. Brave and generous people of England,
are you to submit to a system like this? 'f here is the entire
session for you now. I've given it you as it is. There is a
tail to it to be sure ; a constitution is to be destroyed in Nese-
foundland—there's a bonne bouche for Lord. Stanley. That's
the entire text of the session. A Corn-law equally potential
to crush and starve with the last; a Tariff showing that th,

men know how to do right, but are determined to do wrong;
then an Income-tax to crown and bless the whole. Why, if
you were to consider, a priori, how to get bad results from a
Parliament, you would begin by making them demoralise the
town and boroughs of the kingdom : by getting a class of
wealthy men who are ready to traffic in the consciences of
others, you would get a great briber with an immensity of
money, and send him round to-buy up the souls of the people.
In the Harwich case a man came with tears in his eyes and
asked " Sir, would you deprive me and nay family of 7001. ?" I
blame that man, but I Maine the wretch more who gave it him.
( Hear, bear.) If . you had to form a Parliament of wickedness
you would take those, or some such materials, and you would
have are agitator in every district who would complain that the
landed interest was going to be robbed. I remember Mr.
Cobbett used to tell of a man in France who had done some-
thing very bad, and who, when they were flogging hiss, called
out " they're assassinating me, they're assassinating me;" so
would the landed aristccracy call out, " you're assassinating me,
you want cheap bread, and you're robbing me." Yes ! if youhad a
mind to have a slippery Corn•law, the provisions of a Tariff
such as I have described, and above all, that climax of in-
justice and wickedness—the Income-tax, you would just have
such a Parliament as this, and there is your present Parliament
and its history. Is this to be endured? 1 want to know who
ever saw a man who declared that he was unfit to have a vote.
1 would go 20 miles to see him.—( Cheers. ) I never met a
man who said that of himself, but 1 have met plenty of mis-
creants who said it for others.—(Cheers.) We have plenty of
them in our house—the majority of our House have said it.
The unstained ermine of the Bench proclaims every time a
criminal is about to be punished, " You cannot complain of
your punishment, because recollect you are yourself a party to
making the law." The Judge who says that, would, on ne ac-
count, be guilty of any jest or party ribaldry, yet what can be
a greater jest than the assertion that the people of this country
bad a share in making the laws? 'I hat which the Judges pro-
claim, shows that every Englishman untainted by crime, and not
incompetent by fatuity, has an equal right to his privilege, as
the Duke or the King to their prerogatives; and it is a sh true
and eternal disgrace to those who sit tranquil when their rights
are infringed on.—( Hear, hear.) I can only tell you this,
that there is another portion of the empire who will aid you in
your struggle.—(Cheers.) The morning pa?era contain an
expressiou of Lord Cloncurry's (the most popular nobleman in
the country) opinion of the Corn-laws to the effect that
they were a blind and abominable injustice.—(Cheers) I only
mentioned that to show that, from the highest proprietors down
to the population idle from want of employment, a strong opi-
nion is entertained against this abominable iniquity.—( Cheers. )
Though the Income-tax has not reached ua, because of our
poverty, I will tell you that you can take no fixed purpose of
asserting your political privileges, but you will find us ready to
assist you heart and hand.—(Hear.) But it will be idle to
expect success unless you convince the aristocracy that you are
determined to insist upon an extension of the set age; that is
a step you ought to take independently of this League, and you
ought each to commence that agitation, for without it, you can-
not be ultimately successful. I came here to cheer you
on ; to tell ion that you have scared and frightened
your enemies already; that those who pretended not to fear the
dangers of the coming winter have began to take precautions.
You will hear of a flight in October to places which are consi-
dered more secure, for they cannot contemplate the approach of
winter without apprehension.—(Cheers.) I agree with my
Hon. Friend, that the greatest political advantages can be
gained without violence and force. If the country has lost its
energy, if it has fallen into caducity and decay, I cannot hope
for a good resnit ; but I trust that it is not so, for I see in the
exerl ions of this Conference a revival of the energies of our
population, and I think we may hope for better times.—
(Cheers.) You have a time before you ; don't part as if you
were going, like children, to play, but separate like men going
to exert yourselves for the good of your country. It is the
middle, backed by the working-classes, that have always
achieved the greatest political advantages. The middle class
must hold out the right hand of fellowship to the opera-
tives ; they must not say, " assist me that I may vote," but,
" assist me that we may both vote."—( Cheers.) That is the plan.
I have seen it successful elsewhere, and I hope to see it suc-
cessful here. I return you my best thanks for what you have
done ; I conjure you to arise for your country; take care that
your country has justice and fair play ; and when she has jus.
me and fair play, she will be ready to meet the world in arms
and arts.—(The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman sat down
amid most enthusiastic cheers. )
Mr. RAwsosr proposed the following resolution without
comment :—" That this Conference begs most gratefully to
acknowledge the services of those Members of both Houses of
the Legislature, who have with such patriotic determination
advocated the total and immediate repeal of the Corn-laws, and
especially tenders its warmest thanks to the Hon. C. P. Villiers,
for his unflinching and able advocacy of this cause in the House
of Commons."

Mr. G. THOMPSON, in seconding the resolution, observed,
with regard to the proposal for joining with any other body,
that their course was plain; justice to those who had supplied
the funds ; wisdom suggesting that they should keep in their
ranks men of various opinions; prudence suggesting that they
should not allow those to leave them who, though on morel
and religious grounds, they were anxious for the repeal of the
Corn-laws, did not see that in this question was to be found the
gem of that great political:reformation for which they struggled.
The minister in his gospel, the deacon in his vestry, the Sab-
bath-school teacher in his form, and often the honest Tory—
these were reasons for confining the operations of the League to
its original object. If they desired to take the back-bone out
of the oligarchical monster who now trampled them in the
dust—if they desired to break down a haughty aristocracy,
they must deprive them of the power of making their broad
acres of insensate earth the means of tyrannizing over the
people of this country.—( Loud cheers.) He was proud to
second this motion. Mr. Villiers was a pattern to his class. His
was not the aristocracy which derived its lustre from birth alone ;
his was the aristocracy of virtue and intellect, which cast
around him a halo infinitely lighter than that which attended
Lords and Dukes, who were aristocrats by birth, and became
so without their own consent ; his was the aristocracy of vir-
tue and mind ; that was the aristocrocy for him (Mr. Thomp-
son) ; and let the aristocracy of pedigree, and the aristocracy
of birth, and the aristocracy of wealth perish for ever from the
face of this country.—( Loud and runt nued cheers. )
The resolution was put, and carried unanimously.
The CHAIRMAN then put the Address of the Conference to
the meeting, which was adop' ed unanimously.
Col. THOMPSON rose to propose the next resolution. He
would not have come in at the time he did if he had known
that he should have caused such an interruption.—(The Gal-
lant Colonel entered when Mr. O'Connell was speak-
ing.) He came in consequence of the loop-holes by
which he viewed the proceedings in the great world
from a report which stated that the trade of Manchester
was improving. .Now he did not know whether that was true
or not, but he would ask them, supposing it true to the utmost
extent, what the value and worth of such a circumstance
was? Suppose he had his pocket-handkerchief in his pocket,
but on coming up last week he lost two or three, was that
any evidence that he was as well off as before? When a man
was suffering from distress, or suffering with a rope round his
neck, and a doctor was called in, what would they say to that
doctor, if he said "Don't take the rope away, he is getting
better, and will come round himself?"—(Laughter.) Well,
what they were told about the improvement in trade was quite
as bad. Because trade was a little better than it was three
months ago, was that an argument against repeal? He thought
he had come there rather slightly charged, but he had heard
the word made use of in that assembly, and that word was in-
demnification. Why should they not ask for indemnification ?
Their case was harder than his ( Col. T.'s), and his was hard.
He had never been engaged in commerce. He had no claim to
be called an industrious man. He inherited the proceeds of
successful commerce, and he believed that half that was taken
from him was in consequence of the Corn-laws. He was a
loser as a lsndlord.—(Cheers. ) He had five children —where
could he place one to make 1001. or 2000 The earth had
been stopped, and there was no place for his young foxes.—
(Cheers and laughter.) If he felt that, how much must they
(the delegates) feel it every day, and every hour? The land-
lords said they had clay lands, and they must have money to
cultivate them. How ridiculous would it be for the manufac-
turers to say, " We have a lot of old spinning-jennies, and we
want to work them ; you most give us money."—( Cheers. ) One
point he would mention, and that was, they had made the
Minister believe that there was distress ; and he (Col. Thomp-
son) was much mistaken if, during the coming winter,
rougher faces would not double that conviction upon him.
When they (the Conference) came again, and come
they must ( Hear, hear, and cheers) another point
that. they would have to convince the Minister of
was, that the Corn-laws were the cause of that distress, as
he had not found that out yet. Therefore, when they visited
him again, they must be prepared with their reasons, and
have counsellers ready primed with powerful arguments, to
show that these prohibitions starved somebody—every body
except those who, like himself and fellows, had some means
of living through the existence of evil. He (Col. Thompson)
had said his say, and he would read the resolution which had
been put into his hands, which followed in the same track as
the last resolution, as it conveyed the thanks of the Crrifereuce
to an individual high in station and fortune, and one who took
his stank upon justice and upon right :
" That this Conferenee would beg respectfully to tender to
the Right Hon. the Earl of Radnor the expression of their
sense of tkc obligation which his country owes him for his
firmness in again pressing the claims of industry and com-
merce upon a reluctant and hostile Parliament, and of their
cordial sympathy with the views which have prompted him to
move the second reading of his Bill for the repeal of the Corns
laws in the House of Lords on Thursday next."
Mr. EDWARDS, of Lambeth, briefly seconded the resolution,
which was carried unanimously.
Mr. Asttnowx rose to propose the next resolution

" Resolved, That the cordial thanks of this Conference be
given to Colonel Thompson for his able and earnest efforts in
the Anti-Corn-law agitation, in which he was the pioneer ;
and the Conference expresses its hopes of seeing him again in
the House of Commons, con/ending there against the in-
fatuated landlord majority."—( Loud cheers.)
Air. LEwis seconded the motion without comment.
The re:e!ution was then put and carried with three cheers,
the meeting standing.
Colonel THOMPSOg in a few words returned thanks. He
said he had now received the reward of all his labours, and he
sincerely thanked them in return.

Mr. 'RICARDO then, without observation, proposed the fol-
lowing resolution, which being seconded by Mr. WILLIAMS,
was carried unanimously :
" That this Conference cannot separate without stating their
earnest conviction that the success which will accompany their
future exertion must chiefly depend upon the generous support
which they have received from the conductors of the public
Press ; and the sincere acknowledgments of this Conference
are hereby given to the editors of those London and provincial
newspapers whose exertions and co- operation have already
afforded to the cause of repeal so much valuable assistance."
Mr. GEORGE DA NIELS proposed the following resolution :
" That this Conference anticipates an early call for renewed
exertions, and they would emphatically renew the expression of
their confidence in the wisdom and discretion of the Executive
Council of the National Anti-Corn-law League, and their hope
that they will again call the Deputies together whenever circum-
stances appear to render that step desirable."
This resolution was carried unanimously.
Mr. WHITEHEAD then proposed the following .
•" That the punctuality, amenity, discretion, and dignity,
with which the President of this Conference has discharged his
arduous duties, have essentially contributed to the efficiency
and good oreer of its proceedings, and that the best thanks of
the eon fcrence be given to P. A. Taylor, Esq., for his conduct in
the chair, which has redounded to the credit, and done honour to
the choice of the body which elected him to preside over its de-
liberations."

The resolution was received with great cheering, and the
meeting standing.
The ttev. Mr. SQUIRE, in seconding the resolution, said
that the Chairman had displayed suaviter in modo, firrtiter in re.
The CHAIRMAN then rose, and was received with loud
cheers. He spoke as follows : —Gentlemen, I feel most deeply
indebted to you for the very kind and handsome way in which
you have been pleased to express your approbation of my ser-
vices as your chairman. I can a,sure you that to me it was a
labour of love.—(Cheers.) So deeply am I interested in this
question, and so satisfied am I that the prosperity, the happi-
ness, and the very existence of millions depend upon these abo-
minable laws being repealed, that I sat here pleased to be in
any way instrumental in contributing, as far as my power would
permit, my endeavours to put them down; and if I live (which
I believe 1 shall) for the time to arrive when we shall see the
accomplishment of this great work, I shall feel satisfied that in
all sphere I could have in no way rendered myself more ser-
viceable to my country, or have conferred a greater advantage
on my children, than by taking the part—the humble part—l
have taken in this contest. I return you my sincere thanks.—
(Cheers.) This Conference is now dissolved.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, Aug. 1.

Their Lordships asse:nbled at Five o'Clock.
The Assessed Taxes Bill was read a third time and
passed.
The Colonial Passengers Bill and the Stamp Duties
Assimilation Bill, were each read a second time.

The Stamp Duties Bill was read a third time and
passed.
BONDED CORN BILL.

The Earl of RIPON moved the second reading of the
Bonded Corn Bill, and briefly explained the- objects of
the Bill

Lord BEAUMONT felt it is his duty to offer a few
remarks upon this Bill, although he did not mean to
oppose the second reading. The ground on which he
objected to the Bill was, that he believed it would afford
means of evading the duties imposed by the present
Corn-laws, and would offer an inducement to the com-
mission of fraud.

The Earl of RIPON said that this Bill would do
much good generally, without prejudicing any class
whatever; and as to the objection respecting the alleged
facility it afforded fur frauds, all the Customs officers
had, when examined on the matter,"shown that no such
clanger was to be apprehended on th, subject.
Lord MONTEAGLE said that what had just been
stated by the Noble Earl would induce a person to draw
a, contrast between what was now said of this very
measure, and what was said of it last session.
The measure would most certainly have a bene-
ficial effeat, inasmuch it would have a tendency
to make the' trade in corn more steady, and the
price less fluctuating than under the sole operation of the
sliding-scale.
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
be committed to-morrow.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY seeing the First
Lord of the Admiralty, wished to ask whether it was the
intention of the Government to make any alteration in
the packet station at.Donaghadee and Port Patrick.
The Earl of HADDINGTON said that the Com-
mittee of the.House.of Commons had made a Report on
the subject, which was not yet printed; but he under-
stood that there Was no recommendation in that Report
to make the change alluded to. nor had the engineer, Sir
J. Rennie, made any such recommendation. His own
(the Earl of Haddington's) opinion was against any
change being made hi the station.
_ . . _ _

The Earl—of ABERDEEN laid papers on -the table
respecting the traffic in slaves.
The NOULE EARL also laid on the table a Bill to sus-
pend the operations.of a Bill which had been passed for
the suppression of slavery as regarded Portuguese vessels.
The Bill was react a first time ; second reading to-
morrow.

Lord BROUGHAM postponed till to-morrow, on ac•
count of the illness of the Lord Chancellor, his proposi-
tion on the subject of slavery.
The Earl of GLENGALL presented a petition from
Tipperary, praying for an amendmeut of the Irish Poor-
law Bill.
MINES AND COLLIERIES BILL.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a peti-
tion from Fifeshire against the Mines and Collieries Bill.
Lord REDESDALE, in the absence of his Noble
Friend the Earl of Devon, moved the, third reading of
the Mines and Collieries Bill.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY opposed the third
reading. He particularly objected to the clause (the
3d) which empowered inspectors to visit the mines, col-
leries, &c. The clause would be ineffective for the pur-
pose intended, inasmuch as it contained no provision to
force compliance on the part of the owners of mines to
furnish the means of entering the pits. The Bill, too,
was founded on a false notion of humanity.
Lord REDESDALE said that after the manner in
which the Bill was received by the other House, their
Lordships ought to look more to the principle of the
Bill than to any slight alteration made in its details.
With respect to the clause objected to by the Noble
Marquis, he had to say that the Noble Lord who had
introduced the Bill was perfectly satisfied with the clause
as it stood.--• The Bill was then read a third time.
Lord CAMPBELL concurred with the Noble Mar-
quis, that the clause was ineffectual for the object pro •
posed. He would move the addition of the following
words to the clause—" That the owners and occupiers
of such mines and collieries, or their agents, are hereby
required at all times to furnish the means necessary for
such persons to visit such mines, collieries, works, and
machinery." - - .

Lord IUNCANNON seconded the motion.
After a short conversation the words were added to
the clause. and the Bill passed.
Lord BROUGHAM presomted a petition from the
borough and Corporation 'of Exeter against the Munici-
pal Corporations Bill.
The Insolvent Debtors Bill passed through Committee,
•On the motion of Lord WHARNCLIFFE, the Parish
Constables Bill was read a second time.
To be committed to-morrow.
The House then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Aug. 1.
The SPEAKER took the chair at the usual hour.
The minutes of evidence, taken before the late Election
Committee, were presented and ordered to be printed.
The following Bills were read a second time :—Hill's
Charity (Lewes) Estate Bill, Street's Divorce Bill, and
Duke of Buckingham and Chandos Estate Bill.

Mr. GREENE moved that the Committees on these
Bills have leave to sit, and report to-morrow.—Agreed to.
STREET'S DIVORCE BILL.
This Bill waa riqtd a second time.
SEWELL'S DIVORCE BILL.

On the motion of Sir J. Y. BULLER, witnesses were
called in and examined in support of the allegations
contained in the petition of Mr. Goodeve, respecting
Sewell's Divorce Bill.

• Sir R. INGLIS presented a petition from Dr. Millin-
ger, praying, on behalf of himself and his son, a physi-
cian, now residing in Constantinople, that an
humble address might be presented to the House,
praying that they would be graciously pleased
to direct such measures to be taken as would cause his
son's children, who were now at Rome with their grand-
mother, and were being brought up in the Roman Ca-
tholic faith, to be delivered up to him in order to their
being_ brought up in the Protestant faith. The petition
stated that the oldest boy was only eight years old,
and that though the Roman Government recognised the
civil rights of the father, it did not recognise his reli-
gious rights, and the only means he had of recovering the
children was by diplomatic intervention, and he, there-
fore, prayed that passports might be given to the chil-
dren to leave Rome. Also a petition from a gentleman
in Ireland stating that the petitioner had lately seen
various sums granted for the purposes of education,_ and
none for the appointment of ministers to preach the
gospel to the Irish people, and praying that a sum of
money might be appropriated for that purpose.
Lord R. tiROSVENOR presented a petition from the
inhabitants of Holborn and Oxford-street, in favour of
the municipal plan of metropolitan improvements.
Captain PECHELL presented a petition from several
places in Sussex against the Turnpike-roads Bill.
SLAVE TRADE SUPPRESSION BILL.

On the motion of Sir G. GLERK, this Bill was read
a second time.

LUNACY BILL.

This Bill was read a third time and passed.
MILITIA PAY BILL.

Mr. GREENE brought up the Report on Oa Bill,
which was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.
DUBLIN BOUNDARIES BILL.

On the motion of Lord ELIOT this Bill was read a
third time and passed.
FOUR COURTS MARSIIALSEA (DUBLIN) BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
NOTICES OF MOTIONS.

Mr. HUTT gave notice that he would move for leave
to bring in a Bill for the naturalisation of foreigners.

IPSWICH ELECTION.

Mr. P. M. STEWART moved that no new writ be
issued for the election of Members to serve in Parliament
for the borough of Ipswich, until the evidence taken be-
fore the Committee was printed and laid before the
House.

Mr. ESCOTT said, that though he had given notice
of a motion on Saturday for the issuing of the writ for the
borough of Ipswich, it was not his intention to per-
sist in that motion. He wished, however, to state to the
House that no time ought to be 16st in printing the evi-
dence, as it was of importance that it should be
laid before the House as soon as possible.
He was also desirous of stating, in justification of the
notice which he had given, that he was of opinion that
there was sufficient on the face of the Report
to justify the immediate order for the writ,
because, though he admitted that every allegation in the
Report was, true, the evidence would form no ground
fur suspending the writ. At the same time, he
thought he would be hardly treating the Committee with
due courtesy if he persevered with his motion.
The motion was then agreed to.
SOUTHAMPTON ELECTION WRIT.

Mr. MAZNIINNOIsaid that in rising to move for anew
writ for the town of Southampton, he was induced to do so
in consequence of the many applications he received
on the subject. He trusted that the result of the
Bribery Bill now before the House, would be to
put an end to that corrupt practice ; at least, no nerson
could be more anxious for that result than he.
He did not ask for the issuing of that writ
as a favour, but as a matter of justice,
It would be perfectly right to suspend the writ if the
House had before it any legislative measure for disfran-
chising the borough, but as no Hon. Member had given
any notice of motion with a view to that object, he
thought the House could not refuse to issue the writ.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said, looking to the circumstance
that the Committee had expressed no opinion as to whe-
tber the writ should issue or not ; considering, also,
the fact that there was then a Bill pending in that House
against bribery and treating, which was to have a
retrospective effect ; looking. to the fact that the chief
object of the 320 personsl whose petition he had pre-
sented to the House, was, that the writ should
not is:ine until some legislative enactment had been passed
fur the purpose of preventing treating and bribery ; and
understanding from the Right Hon. Baronet that lie
pledged himself,
as far as Government influence couldavail, that the measure should pass through both the
Houses of Parliament, lie would withdraw his opposi-
tion to the election for Southampton, and he hoped that
the candidates, whether Liberal 'or Conservative, would
conduct themselves better than they had done on former
occasions.--(Laughter.) •
Sir ROBERT PEEL said the Hon. Gentleman must
recollect what it was that he had stated . the other
night, viz. that he had hitherto supported the
Bill, and that he would never be a party, either
directly or indirectly, .•,o the defeating a measure
which he had supported in that House. He could
not undertake to promise that the Bill should pass
through the other House of Parliament. The Bill met
-with the general concurrence of her Majesty's Govern-
ment. - . _ _

Mr. V. SMITH said, although it was impossible for
the Right Hon. Baronet to pledge himself that no amend-

ments should be made in the details of the Bill, he
thought it was important that the House should know
whether it was intended to give the Government sup-
port to tilt. retrospective clause in the
hear.) Ile wished to know whether to that clause the
Right Hon. Baronet could hold out any hope of the
other House giving its assent.

Sir R. PEEL said perhaps it was hardly necessary for
him to qualify the statement that the Bill would
receive Government support.. There was no new offence
of bribery created by this Bill, excepting with respect to
head-money. He apprehended that, under the. existing
law, if a vacancy took place, and any candidate shoula
treat, he would lose his seat. He had recommended to
the Noble Lord that elections which took place after the
lit of June should be subject to the operation of this Bill;
that was to say, supposing there would be an
allegation of bribery with respect to any
election which might take place to-morrow,
then he thought the new tribunal should have power to
investigate that case as though it had occurred before
the passing of the Act, and that any election which took
place in future should be subject to the provisions of
that Act. He would give the same assurances with re-
spect to this Bill as with respect to any other Bill which
had received Government support.
Mr. V. SMITH said that assurance was all he wanted.

Mr. SHEiL, as a member of the Committee, said
they had come to the unanimous decision that it
was not for them to give any opinion to the
House on a matter so important as the refusal
of the writ ; on that point there was no second opinion.
They felt that to call on the House to stop the writ
would be a serious proceeding on their parts. At the
same time, they were agreed as to the import-
ance of adopting means of preventing the evils
before the coining elections. Since the Committee sat
he had seen some clauses drawn up by the Hon. and
Learned Member for Liskeard, and they seemed to him
all that could be wished ; they would meet the difficulty
with regard to " chair money" and " colour money,"
which they did away with.
'The writ was then ordered.
BANKRLTPTCY BILL.
Mr. P. HOWARD wished to ask the Secretary for
the ilome Department whether the Government intended
to proceed with the Bankruptcy Bill and the County
Courts Bill ?

:tiir J. GRAHAM said it was his intention to proceed
with the Bankruptcy Bill immediately. The course he
intended to take was this—there were certain clauses ne-
cessary to be introduced, and certain alterations
to be made, in consequence of communications
and representations from influential merchants of
the City of London ; he should, therefore, move
that the Bill be committed, pro
*Arm, this even-
ing. and he would make such arrangements as
should ensure the Bill being printed, and in the hands of
Members to-morrow morning ; and to prevent anything
like surprise, he would state that he proposed to
re-commit the Bill on Wednesday, when he
should endeavour to obtain the consent of the House to
go through the Bill, clause by clause, as quickly as pos-
sible. With regard to the County Courts Bill, its pro-
gress would depend on the progress of the Bankruptcy
Bill.

Captain PECHELL asked whether the Right Hon.
Baronet intended to proceed with the second reading of
the Bill this evening.
Sir J. GRAHAM—If there was no objection he
should certainly wish to do so. He did not think, from
the principles of the Bill, that there would be any objec-
tion to it.

Mr. C. BULLER said he should oppose the Bill in all
its stages. •

Sir J. GRAHAM—Even the second reading ?

Mr. C. BULLER—Ye&

Sir J. GRAHAM believed that the Hon. and Learned
Member had, on fiwiner occasions, supported the princi-
ples of
C.
Mr. C. BULLER—No, no.
METROPOLITAN IMPROVEMENTS.

Lord R. GROSVENOR said he believed the Right
Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's G averment had
had an interview with a deputation from a Society into-
mted in the improvement of the metropolis, and who were
anxious to better the system on which the improvements
were carried on, and whatever was done should be done in
a comprehensive and extensive manner. The plan for a
line of communication between Piccadilly and Long-acre,
and the North and South of London, had been departed
from ; he wished to ask whether her Majesty's Govern-
ment had taken any steps to form a Committee, or tri-
bunal, to consider the subject, or obtained any means of
laying down some comprehensive system of improvement
with regard to the metropolis ?
Sir R. PEEL said, the question of the Noble Lord
involved two considerations ; first, whether it was not
desirable to have some tribunal that should judge of the
plans for the improvement of the metropolis, and to
proVide better regulations connected with the health
of the inhabitants ; and having been a member

of a Committee connected with the subject, he
did not think a Committee was the best tribunal
to decide such a question. He thought a better
tribunal would be one totally unconnected with those
local interests by which the Members of the different
places must be affected. In the hope that he could prevail
upon persons to consider the subject, not with a view
of making those improvements, but to suggest the ne-
cessity of theth—(Hear, hear)—he had had an inter-
view with the Board of Ordnance, with a view of con-
sidering the propriety of preparint, an Ordnance
map. He believed that a perfect and accurate map of
the metropolis would greatly facilitate its improvement.
With respect, however, to that map, he must suspend his
opinion until he had had an estimate of the cost of pro-
such a map.— (Hear, hear.) For his own part,
he thought there could not be a better application
of public monLy than in public improvements.
With respect to the other improvements and con-
siderations involved in the question of the Noble Lord,
all he could say was, that formerly the proposed width
of the new streets was 60 feet ; since then, however, it
had been proposed to make them only 52 feet. That
proposition had been sanctioned by the late Government
and Parliament, and such being the case, he could not
venture to set aside such an arrangement.
WRIT FOR BELFAST.

On the motion of Mr. CRTPPS, a new writ was or-
dered to be issued for the election of two burgesses to
serve in Parliament for the town of Belfast.
FACTORY LABOUR.

In reply to a question from Mr. S. WORTLEY,
Sir J. GRAHAM said that it was not the intention of
the Government to make any proposal for the abridge-
ment of labour in factories. _ _

In reply to a question from Captain PECHELL, rela-
tive to the liability of naval officers serving within the
tropics to the payment of the Income-tax.
Sir R. PEEL said he should decline to answer any
questions relating merely to the interpretation of Acts of
Parliament.
PUBLIC INFORMERS IN IRELAND.

Mr. SHELL said he wished to put certain questions
to the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, relative
to the very remarkable evidence given by an approver
of the name of Hagan at the last assizes for Armagh.
It appeared from a report which appeared
in a public print that the approver stated
that he went about administering unlawful oaths,
and making Itibbonmen Eby the hundred, with a
knowledge of the police and certain Magistrates. He
(Mr. Shell) wished to ask the Noble Lord opposite
whether he believed the report of the evidence of
the approver to be correct—whether he had seen
any report of the trial, on the authenticity of
which he could rely—whether he believed that
Hagan stated he had been employed by the
police in the way mentioned in his evidence—whe-
ther the Magistrates were aware that the approver,
after he had first given his evidence before them, went
among the people administering illegal oaths to them ;
and finally, whether the Government had been informed
by the Magistrates of the course of proceeding they had
adopted ?
Lord ELIOT said that he was not then able to answer
the questi:mis of the Eight Hon. Gentleman. He knew
little more of the facts of the case than appeared in the
public prints. He was aware that an approver of the
name of Hagan had been in confinement for some time,
and that he had made communications which had
led to the apprehension of certain individuals. he was
not aware, however, that the approver had been em-
ployed by the police or the Magistrates to administer
unlawful oaths, after he had given his evidence. He
believed that crimes arising out of secret societies could be
proceeded against only upon the evidence of an approver ;
but at the same time he should express his conviction,
that the employment of an approver in the way stated
(if the report were correct), was certainly objectionable.
He should repeat, however, that his only knowledge of
the circumstances of the trial was derived from a perusal
of the newspaper to which the Hight Hon. Gentleman
had referred. He would write and obtain more accurate •
information on the subject, which he should be ready to
communicate to the House.

Mr. COBDEN (rave notice th.:t he should ask to-
morrow whether the Government were aware of, or had
sanctioned, the construction of two steam-frigates, one
of which was the Montezuma, and was now lying
at Blackwail, to be sent on the service of Mexico
against the Texas, and one of which, it was stated
in the Morning Herald of that day, was to be commanded
by an officer in her Majesty's service, and manned and
officered by British subjects.'
CASE OF 1)11. APDOUALL.
Mr. THOMAS DUNCOMBE rose to bring forward
the motion of which he had given notice, to refer to a
Select Committee the petition of Dr. M'Douall, and the
petition of the inhabitants of Deptford, complaining of
the arrest of 1)r. M'Douall, and of the conduct of die
police for preventing a public meeting. He believed he
had precedents in his favour for the inquiry which he
wished to see instituted. He would commence by stat-
ing the circumstances of the case. It appeared that
1)r. M‘Douell had been invited by several house-
holders at Deptford to attend a meeting convened for
the purpose of hearing a lecture by Mr. G. Thompson at
a Dissenting chapel. That meeting had taken place ;
and lA-. M'Douall, who lied assisted at it, had expressed
his intention to exert himself in putting an end to dis-
turbances which had taken place at the commencement of
the proceedings. When he arrived he found that the dis•
turbance was over, and the meeting adjourned to a place
called the Broadway, where the inhabitants of Deptford
were in the habit of assembling. Many of the gentle-
men who had interested themselves in the proceeding of
the lecturer accompanied Dr. M'Douall to the Broadway.
It appeared, therefore, that those gentlemen took no ob-
jection to 'his conduct. When Dr. M'Douall arrived at
the Broadway he was invited to address the people.
He ascended a pump, which was frequently used
on such occasions ; and he (Mr. T. Duncombe)
believed that there was nothing unconstitutional in
mounting a pump to address the people. Dr. M•Douall
had addressed the meeting for about a quarter of an hour
when he was interrupted by a party of the police. He
was arguing, at the time the police interfered, in favour of
free discussion. He was stating that a fair hearing should
be given to every man, whether archbishop or chimney-
sweeper, landlord or labourer, shopkeeper or scavenger.

Those were the words reported by Superintendent Mal-
lalieu, to the policeman. When asked by the Magistrate
as to the language used by Dr. M•i)ouall, he said he heard
him use the words " The tyrant aristocracy of the
country, who are trampling on the rights of the poor."
That was perfectly consistent with the account
given by Dr. M•Douall Ilia :self. Dr. M'Douall
stated that .MaHallett, the policeman, said to him. "Come
down, or I will knock you down you are holding an
unlawful and iller al meeting, and using exciting lan-
guage." Dr. M-Douall asked him by what au-
thority he was interrupting a meeting which
was assembled peaceably, and would disperse peace-
ably ? Mallalieu said, " I hold no conversation
with you you must come down ;" and he was
then pulled down by two policemen, and desired to leave
the place. It should b* recollected that at this time Dr.
M'Douall was under recognizancs of 5001. in conse-
quence of a riot two or three years ago ; and that he
was• littlo likely, therefore, to say or do any thing
to excite a breach of the peace.—(Hear, hear.). The
Superintendent, when he otlerod to disperse the meeting,
told him .to go away, telling him the way to go. lir.
M'i)ouall, " That is not my way ; my way is towards
London, and that is the way to Greenwich." Upon that
he was arrested by the police, and taken to the sta-

. .
tion-house. What was the treatment which he ex-
.perienced when there ? In the first place, good
bail was offered and refused. The trustee of
the chapel offered bail for the prisoner, and the reply
was "It you will lay me down 1.000 guineas I won't
let him go," giving as the reason that the town was ex-
cited. The gentleman offered to take him three or four
miles out of town in his own carriage, but nothing
would satisfy the policeman, and Dr. M'Douall was left
nit night, and until eleven o'clock on Wednesday, in the
station-house, which had in it an offensive privy, and an
unglazed window ; his property was taken from him, and
all communication with his friends was refused. No
common felon, no murderer, no miscreant, could
possibly have been treated worse than this indivi-
dual, who was attelang, as he was prepared to show the
House, a meeting lawfully assembled. He requested
that he might he allowed to communicate with
his friends previously to appearing before the
Magistrates, in order to prepare evidence that the
meeting was not unlawful, but he was told that
no interview would be allowed except in the
presence of a policeman. The next day he was called
before the Magistrates, and who appeared as wit-
nesses against him ? Why, these very policemen ;
not a single inhabitant of Deptford came forward to
state that there had been anything like a breach
of the peace. There was no person but the policeman
to uphold such a statement, and he, according tc the state-
ments that had been made, was interested in the ques-
tion. If any breach of the peace was committed, it was on
the part of the police, and no one else. Now what, he would
ask, was the conduct of the Superintenden t ? In his opinion
it was most improper and indecent. He called the parties
who had surrounded Dr. M'Douall the scum of the
parish ; what did the Magistrates say to that statement
of the inspector ? Only that he should not use
such terms. Now, what was the end of all this?
Why, as soon as the examination of the policeman
had concluded, Dr. Dl'Douall said he should
summon several persons from Deptford, in order to show
that no disturbance had taken place, and upon
his making that statement what did the Magis-
trate say ? Why, that if he called the 2,000
persons that were about him, I.e could not convince him
that it was not an illegal meeting. In the result, Dr.
M'Douall was held to bail, himself in fifty pounds,
and two sureties of twenty-five pounds each.
After that he went and asked i\Ellalicu for a copy of the
charges, which was refused him. He then went to the
Magistrate, who desired him to go back to
who would give him the copy. He did so, but
Mallailett repeated his refusal, and stated he
did not care what the Magistrate said, and in conse-
quence of that refusal he was not able to insert the
charge in his petition. He therefore came to that House
and asked for an inquiry into the conduct of the policeman.
The inhabitants of Deptford met on the following morning,
and agreed to a petition complaining of the conduct or the
policeman, which they stated, and truly stated, to be a violation
of the Constitution. They looked with jealousy upon that
interference, in consequence of what had taken place in Staf-
ford—a proceeding which had never been perpetrated in the
worst times of Castlereagh and Sidmeuth. They prevented
those meetings, too, at a time when the people were perishing
with want, and would not relieve their distress. He (,Mr.
Duncombe) maintained that there was not law, or anything
like law, in such interference. The Hon. Gentleman then
quoted the law as laid down by Mr. Justice Bayley at the trial
of Mr. Hunt, for conspiracy, in York. The lion. Gentleman
also referred to the opinion of Mr. Sergeant Hawkins on the
subject, who stated that if the meeting did not give rise to '
fears or jealousy, it was not of an unlawful character. Was
there anything in the meeting of the inhabitants of Deptford
to create fears and jealousy, or anything of an illegal cha-
racter collected with it? He contended there was not, and
that there was no justification for interfering with it. If the
doctrine of the Right lion. Baronet was right with regard to
the interference of constables, what was the use of the Acts
to prevent the assembling of the people in 1819 and 1820?
The Hon. Gentleman then referred to the reasons given by
Lord Sidmouth for bringing in the Seditious Meetings Bill,
which was opposed by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite. On
the 11th of July, 1838, a meeting was held at Cold-bath-fields,
which was dispersed, upon which Lord Althorp moved for a
Select Committee upon the subject, to which the Right
Honourable Baronet assented, and which was opposed by
the Right Honourable Baronet the Member for Kent.
How often had the police been used as spies both here and in
Ireland? On the affair of the Manchester massacre ( which the
Whigs stated to be an unlawful meeting), Mr. Tierney moved
for an inquiry, the amendment by which he did it contenting
an assertion that the Con.titution had been violated, and that
it could not be violated with impunity; for that amendment
the Right Hon. Baronet voted. The petitioners had much
reason to complain ; they had submitted their claims in
respectful language to the House, and he hoped the Howe
would support him in inquiring whether or not there was any
foundation for those complaints. He believed the statements
could be more than proved ; it was stated that nothing could be
more outrageous, violent, and tyrannical, than the con-
duet of the police; nothing more quiet than that
of the people. It was of no use their talking in
Queen's Speeches of the patience and forbearance of the peo-
ple, if when they met peaceably to express their opinions
and grievances, a body of policemen was to interfere with them.
If they proceeded in this manner they would be compelled at
last to call in the military. He concluded by moving—" To
refer to a Select Committee the petitions of Dr. M'Douall and ;
the inhabitants of Deptford (presented 29th July), complaining •
of his arrest, and of the conduct of the metropolitan police in
preventing a public meeting of the inhabitants of Deptford on
the 26th day of July, and that the said Committee do report
their opinion thereon to the House."
Mr. O'CONNELL seconded the motion.

The question having been put,
Sir J. GRAHAM said he was sorry to feel it his duty to
detain the House for a short time in resisting the motion of the
Hon. Member. In the first place he should confine himself to
the facts of the case, relying on the information he had received
from Mr. Jeremy, the Magistrate before whom the ease was tried
The most important fact, and the one on which the whole ques-
tion totally turned, was the character of the meeting to which
the petition related. He should state the character of the ori-
ginal meeting, of which the one in the Broadway was only a
continuance. The meeting was called in a Dissenting Chapel
at Deptford, for the purpose of hearing a lecture on the
Corn-laws from Mr. George Thompson, one of the paid lec-
turers of the Anti-Corn-law Conference. He had in his hand
the original summons of the meeting, to which the clergyman
and trustees of the chapel were parties : he had not a word to
say of this meeting itself, though he might regret that a place
of warship had beets us,d for such a purpose. The clergyman
of the chapel was on the platform, together with the
trustees. On the doors being opened a general influx of
strangers partaking of the opinion of the Chartist: took place,
and, immediately on their arrival, the utmost confusion arose.
A wish was expressed by them that the clergyman and the
trustees should have the platform, and that the chair should be
taken by a working-man. On this, he had been told, that a
scene of the utmost violence and confusion instantlt arose.
Dr. M'Douall wished to address the meeting on behalf of the
Chartists ; there was great shouting and confusion. One of the
trustees escaped from the chapel, and called in the police. The
moment the police appeared, there were shouts of " Attack
the police," " Beat the police," and reference was
made to a scene which had recently occurred at.
Kentish-town, when a collision had taken place between
the police and the populace. The chapel was cleared,
after some struggle. Dr. 111‘Douall declared his inten-
tion of holding a meeting in the open air, and a multitude, in a
state of great excitement, followed Dr. I%l'Douall to the Broad•
way. This he ( Sir J. Graham) contended constituted a
continuance of the riotous assemblage in the chapel. Arrived
at. the Broadway Dr. M'Douall mounted the Deptford rostrum
—the parish pump—and proceeded to address the multitude.
The language he made use of was violent, and the multitude was
in the highest state of excitement. The alarm of the inhabi-
tants was great. The Broadway was part of the road leading
to Greenwich, of the Great Dover-road. The multitude oc-
cupied the carriage-way and the footpath, completely blocking
up the highway; the evening was far advanced; it was be-
tween eight and nine o'clock. Darkness was approaching, the
meeting was tumultuous and excited, and the language held
by the Doctor was violent. Under these circumstances the
Superintendent of Police felt it to be his duty to call upon the
naeeting to disperse, and entreated the Doctor to descend from
the pump. The Doctor refused. The Superintendent said
he should be forced to compel him. The Doctor then con-
sented to come down, and an offer was made to make a clear
passage for the Doctor to go home. He refused to go; and it
was not until then that the police felt it was their duty
to arrest him. A violent attempt was made to res-
cue him—violent language was used—blows were struck,
three or four more persons were apprehended by the police,
and under these circumstances the Doctor was conveyed to
the station-house. It was perfectly true that in the excited
state of the town bail had been refused. Dr. M'Douall had
complained of the confinement, and of the manner in which he
had been treated ashen he had been locked up in the station-
house. Now he could state that an offer had been made to
Dr. M'Douall to afford him any accommodation he might de-
sire, but he ( Dr. M' Oouall) had refused every offer that had
been made. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Duncombe) then pro.
ceeded to state what took place the following morning when
the case was brought up for hearing before the Magistrates.
The Hon. Gentleman relied upon the fact, as he stated, that
none but policemen were examined. He (Sir James Graham)
thought he understood the Hon. Gentleman to say that to
independent witness was heard.
Mr. T. DUNCOMI3E—I said no inhabitant of Deptford.
Sir JAMES GRA II A Nl—The Hon. Gentleman said that
no inhabitant of Deptford was heard. Now he (Sir James
Graham) would not trouble the House by reading much of the
evidenCe which he held in his hand taken before the Magis-
trates. The Hon. Gentleman said that there was some doubt
with respect to the charge. Now he (Sir James Graham)
would read the charge made before the Magistrate upon which
the hearing took place. Dr. M'Douall was charged with caus-
ing a great number of disorderly persons to aseemble together
in a place called the Broadway, in the parish of St Peter,
Deptford, and with using language of a violent and inflamma-
tory nature, tending to excite a further breach of the peace, and
causing a great obstruction to the passengers in the public
streets and thoroughfares Now the I-lon. Gentleman said that
the testimony of the police was not to be relied upon. . He
(Sir James Graham) admitted that he did not place so much
reliance on the testimony of Superintendent Mallateu, who was
the responsible person, in refusing to take bail for Dr.M.Douall,
and who took so prominent a part in compelling him to
desist in addressing the multitude. lie (Sir James
Graham) found by the evidence of Smith, a police-
man, that a crowd was in the street. He the witness)
saw men and women rushing to the chapel, one after
the other. He saw the defendant get on the platform. The
police interfered and there was a cry to serve out the police,
and give them bludgeons, the same as at Kentish-town.
There were three cheers given for O'Connell—(Laughter)—
three cheers for the Charter, and three cheers for Dr.

Mr. O'CONNELL—I beg your pardon, did you say
O'Connell?

Sir .1. GRAFI t M—lt was O'Connor.—(Laughter.) He
(the witness) told the defendant that that was not the proper
place to go on in that way. The Honourable Gentleman
said that that evidence was partial and not to be relied
upon. Now he would reed to the House the evideenn
of a eitness named William Dew, a watchmaker, 14°,
if he was not a resident of Deptford, was not connected
in any way with the meeting —( The Right Hon, Baronet
then read the evidence of William Dew, which appeared in
The Sun of Wednesday last.) With respect to the charaeter
of Dr. M'Douall, the Hon. Gentleman had notified that this
was not the first occasion or, which he had been present at
riotous and unlawful meetinge It appeared that in August,
1839, he was tried at Chester for raising a tumultuous meeting,
sentenced to twe;ve months' imprisonment in Chester Castle,
and required to find sureties, his own of 5001. and two of 1004
each, to keep the peace for five years. Now, with respect'!!
the harshness of the proceedings before the Magistrates. After
hearing the statements against the prisoner, the Magisteste'
before Dr. M'Douall entered into his defence, notified to hi?'
that he would then declare his opinion as to the case as it stoa.s;
he thought there was not any evidence adduced that was sat Bei"'
to induce him to commit him for trial for holdingan illegal meet'
ing, he was willing to take his recognizancesin 501. and tw. isuses
ties of 251. each, to keep the peace; and so far frail o Ot'
111'Douall objecting to•this course, he willingly acceded to it,_s
and upon the closing of the case he stated that he was sears
with the arrangement, and thanked Mr. Jeremy for deal jell 9°
leniently with the case ; and so far from Dr. M'Donall press'
ing forward the hearing of the witnesses, he declared Itir;te,!,
satisfied with the course pursued by the Magistrate.
Hon. Gentleman seemed to think that some novel course b'
e
been pursued with respect to this matter. Now he beggosd t
state distinctly that no new power had been given is) the
constables ; and if any illegal act had been committe I b
the constables, the law was prepared to vindicate snit
conduct ; and if any constable had been guilty of an nlerj
act, the law would be the first to punish it.--(1101"
It was competent for the House to interfere to remedy aset:"_!sj
ficiences in the existing law ; but it was not part of their
functions to interfere in the ordinary administration of puttee'
He was not by any means prepared to say that great and peel
liar cases of urgency might not arise, in which it would be the
duty of that House, as the great inquest of the nation, to :intl.
tute an inquiry into the administration of the law. But be did'
not think that the present was a case of sufficient imports uselte
justify such a course of proceeding. It was not a case sot.llch
~.
resembled, for instance, the disturbances at Preston, or • t".•
still more serious disturbances at Manchester. The
Gentleman had said that the powers exercised by the toll
ought to be closely watched. Now he (Sir J. Gra: estl3
did not deny that. He did not deny that the motion of the floe.
Gentleman would be attended with advantage in showing tr''',„
parties who considered themselves aggrieved might have aril
case discussed in the House. But he could see no benetlitt.olL
would be likely to arise from en inquiry into the far ts
present case. He was satisfied that no injustice had b cell <,lot
and that upon the whole the parties in question h,4 ale °
only with justice but with leniency.
Mr. O'CONNELL said it was quite a mistake to t toPP°9I,I,
that his Hon. Friend had directed his motion agair cst
Jeremy. It was of the police, and not of Mr. Jeremy lbst.T
complained. Nothing could be more unprovoked and
fiable ahan the conduct of the police in the case, and th,
ceedings against Dr. Al'Douall. The right to meet to pet i
sanctioned by the Constitution, and the right of the pe A,
meet for the purpose of public discussion was only anothe 107,
of expressing public sentiment ; therefore it was one of Sari"
ante when it was sought to put down the expression' of pof,l
opinion.—( Hear, hear.) When the Right Hon. Ila ele
talked of 'Manchester it ought to be recollected that it a ra
interference of the police which produced such seenes.--e!: ffel
hear.) It had been said that there was great excitemerst
because that was the case men were to be dragged to no
geons. He thought that there was a clear illegal arrest i a
case, and it would be satisfactory to the public that an u iqu•
rf
should take place.—( Hear. )
Mr. HAWES said that he hoped a more satisfactory' ststr,s,
ment would be made than that of the Right Hon. Bs els;el
which was most unsatisfactory. The Right Hon. Baror est the
down the law that a constable had full power to decide r it
legality or illegality of a meeting, and was entitled to di irons
if it was one of an illegal character; but if not, he w attlusso
liable to an action. And it was for the prospective dams go To
might be given against a constable that the meetings ' ,j
people were to be put down.—( Hear, hear ) He bets,
that they would have a decided condemnation of such
and that they were not to pass through the ensiling tutelthe
with the doctrine of the Right Hon. Baronet in fore r. Tid
allegations in the petition were not denied. It had be tea
that the public ways were obstructed. But was that, tehee
assigned by the Secretary of State as a reason why P,us be
meetings should be prevented? If they were they wo
going back to the days of high flown Toryism, and if-such a ILAO
trine remained unchecked and unreproved, they woul d "its
have the Right Hon. Bat onet proposing a re-enactment of the if
seles% Acts.—( Hear, hear.) Nobody would accuse him of
blaming the conduct or the police. He was always 'sf
retain to them a due exercise of their. power ; as a Mena;
order. he would go a good way to maintain their a atberldit
But the present case was a wanton abuse of their pow s° 00
would have well become the Right Hon. G. aide! h
to have expressed his disapprobation of it s suet
stronger language than he had done. A public ineo sing_ao
not to be put down by such interference. There I had bee
two inquiries, and if the police had not been to blai
had had an opportunity of showing it. If that hod y tra,
on
preserve anything like a popular character, and to be Ise' led eso
by the great mass of the community, it must certainly
its tendency to abuse its authority. Under all citcounsitan;
he thought the House would not be justified in refusing
grant the inquiry. '•
•es of
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought that inesr_sr„
this description, unless called for by special and extra°
unusual
circumstances, by loss of life or by some 's.
lY
excitement, were calculated to be exceeding
whether
chievous. He did not pretend to decide •E'n of the
the meeting in question was legal or illegal. Ther°r,iforopsois
meeting was the announcement of a lecture by M•
It appeared that Mr. Thompson did not attend 83
eed the trus-
and that some circumstances occurred which in-us to
for the po ice
tees to send for the police. The trustees sent
clear the chapel.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE—No.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had understood that such.
was the case. At all events the chapel had been cleared. The'
Doctor said that if he could not be heard in the chapel, bes'..
would be heard in the open air—went to a vacant space nut nisi
at 'flounced,
doors—assembled a meeting, and blocked up the public high"
way. Now clearly it was the duty of the police to clear ate
public highway; and while a person was haranguing a mad'
tude it would be absurd for the police to attempt to clear eel'
way, enless they also removed the person causing the miscleik
They were perfectly justified in removing the cause of tl'.e air
struction. That was the law ; but he hoped that ye Hi
Member would imagine that he was attempting to jerstify t
application of the extreme rigour of the law ; on the etrateary,
thought that a great deal of forbearance ought to be practise TP:
They were asked to inquire into the law. For what ? Tb
had been told of two cases in which inquiry had. taken els fbe;
but those cases were of quite a different character. In •
ss
Calthorpe-street case, there had been an actual riot, a pot' s
man had been stubbed by one of the multitude, and a 0 1,1
nor's jury had actually acquitted the person stabbing him, ni.he
of opinion that he had done it in self-defence. It would.
most mischievous to institute an inquiry instead of leavings',
person aggrieved to his remedy at law. If a part,/ 'mf
himself aggrieied, he should apply to a Cte.tet ,se°
Law for the remedy instead of to that House,. I
Hon. Member had said they ought not to separ ate 4,0
out some expression on the part of the Government am
subject. His Right Hon. Friend had stated that on all 01 '"ej
sions where the authorities had been a, plied to they as !el
under great responsibility, and e hat more, lie would ask, 41'4.
be required? He (the Attorney-General) in' ready to
tend to every complaint; but he trusted the Hon. Aleeetuiet
would not think it necessary for the Ceivernenerit to give belt
would not think it necessary fur the liuvernenent to give je
opinion upon every particular case.—('sear, hear.)
thought it was not competent for the Hoome to interfere in ."
present stage of these proceedings, swat he trusted t.1, refOte
the law would be allowed to take its course.
Mr. SHEIL did not think the Hon. and Learned ( ieotlie#
man who had just sat down had paid attention to w Dente
been stated by the Right Hon. Barosiet, the Secretary of
for the Home Department. It was his opinion that the" e°':
had exercised a sound discretioa. It would appear as if i Clef
were about to have new principles relative to the inte rf ere"
of the police with the right of the people, laid dowst the
Right Honourable Baronet, the Secretary for
s,•et
Home Department. The meeting in Vse pressr,
case had been held for a perfectly leeitimata
pose, and had been dispersed by the cons' abutter
upon their own aathnrity. The House had beentold a.e n'lest
day, in the Sedgely case, that they should not interfe re, oat
they might seem disposed to disturb the vetdiat of a Jar y. ne;
there had been no verdict of a Jury in the present int 40° b
Le 4
so far was that from being the case that the Msgis trate'
declared there was nu evidence to show that there 'bad
anything illegal. The Right Hon. Baronet, the : ;care
the
for the rime Department, had stated that he approv ed of
conduct of the constabulary, and that they had used a wised ‘',lts
crution. Now he ( Mr. Shell) should say that in ma king
det''
statement the Right Hon. Baronet himself had not us rd a to.".si
discretion. If the ease were an isolated case between 'man ape
man, or the Right Hon. Gentleman and Dr. 111 T ealts'
( Mr. Shell) would have said nothing ; but the reasc n he !Lei
tached so much impsrtance to this case was, that it as Kilda load
to most dangerous consequences.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the Bight 'Hove. Gent
tleman seemed to suppose that before any constabise
a Magistrate must have read the Riot Act, or iss aed a, fo2co‘s
mation.—( Hear, hear.) Now, the object of reading the !It
Act was for the purpose of inflicting a penalty iuponperts
remaining after the Act had been read. But if the oonstsTs
saw a person creating a disturbance, he was at liberty, to tail
that party into custody. All they could say was, that he dot
it at his own peril. and if he arrested a party who was no
guilty, he was liable to an action. But what were the ft s
upon which the House was called upon to grant a Cot emitt
From the statement of the Hon. Gentleman, it was quite It";
possible for the House to judge what the facts were. E
.3,1 e era
Hon. Gentleman who had spoken on that side 00.1;
no blame whatever to Mr. Jeremy, the Mr igistriles'-;
Now let them look at the history of the case down to the t:),se
it was disposed of by Mr. Jet emy. It must be recoil teed `s-'t
Mr. Jeremy did not discharge the party, and he did Est tif
was a false accusation, but on the contrary, he said,. tbigr-re,
is brought before me, he is guilty of a breach of ''lie eta je
His conduct has not been such as would wart ant W
committing him, but he must find sureties to keep the pe 140
—( Hear, hear.) (The Hon. and Learned Gentleman tit'.
read the evidence given by the policeman Smith, as publis Peo
in The Sun of Wednesday last.) In his opinion there was
ease for inquiry.
Lord PALMERSTON said it appeared to him that ti
who had objected to this motion had given very good ea
why the House should grec to it. The Attorney-General Itss,
it was quite right and proper that when grievances bad been.fee
they should be brought under the consideration of the House:, a°
yet he was against any inquiry taking place. What was d!:
character of the present discussion ? Here were stat•errients
on the one side tending to show great impropriety of my adr_,
on the part of the police; here were statements on the .otl
side alleging that the conduct of the police was wise as id Si!:
erect. Why if there could be a case in which the public se
terest required that there should be some inquiry, it was such
ti
case as that. He thought it was very expedient `that!,
House should come to some conclusive determination
to the facts which had been brought under its consider•. Y•
Lion. It appeared to him that there were good ground
for inquiry, because it seemed to him, upon the state
th e
ments which had been made on the two sides, that ,
conduct of the police was not very wise or
hear.) It had not been alleged by the Attorney-General_ n
the Solicitor-General, that the meeting wasan illegal one. ~!s!
Attorney-General said he would undertake to say tha n t•I
that
account meeting led to the obstruction of a thoroughfare, it must
account become illegal Why, probably no fair took place. .
country town which might not be dispersed on that groiondl_r.
( Hear, hear.) Upon what ground, then, was it th at Vo,
ill'Douall was arrested? It must have been in conserdiaenc!ie:
something which he said which was in it. nature Pei"' ap
which was illegal. I3u. whet, he was brought before the
cMagis-
trateenishepNarltagieisthriaettei d,,id.asnotilliieugtatimbeent hhisetrial for any not.'tutto
over to keep the peace.—(Rear, hear.
he was not disposed to go so far as his Hon. Friends had dope
no'
in approving the conduct of the Magistrate. it appearedses
him very questionable whether, if the Magistrate found se
• h rce4ered
thing in the conduct of Dr. M'Douall whist e -
Nsiotnwp,lyheboetZ.s?
him
him to bail to keep the peace.—( Hear, bear.)
liable to prosecution, whether there was any grounntle w
for holding
iial