The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-09 00:00:00

wrote again, stating that intrigues and such like were at work.
Again, he said, of his Majesty's sincere intentions he had no
doubt, but he was afraid of the intentions of the Minister of
the Interior; he doubted also his Majesty's confessors, and he
was alarmed at what was being done by the Duchess de
Berri. Here he would ask the House whether, if that
were not diplomatic correspondence, what was? Here
a man had interviews with the Prime Minister; nay, more,
he' had audiences of the Sovereign; he had to frustrate
the Ambassadors, to compete with a Royal Duchess ; and he
( Gr. D'lsraeli) must say that this appeared to him to be a
diplomatic correspondence. If it were necessary for this man
to have interviews with the Prime Minister, to have audiences
of the Sovereign, to frustrate confessors and Duchesses, why
did they have Plenipotentiaries and Secretaries of Legation
there? He believed himself that the transactions which
had taken place with reference to the commercial treaties of
Naples were transactions which, when better known and
understood, would produce a deep impression on the public
mind of this country. He was quite sure that when the Noble
Lord succeeded to power in 1830, and brought with him unri-
valled talent, that the great historical knowledge which he pos-
sessed, in addition to his abilities, were great recommendations
to the Noble Lord. He believed that if there were two can-
didates for public favou •, the aristocrat would immediately be
the favourite; he believed that was the general feeling in the
country; for example, he read the other day, that the great
soldier of the age was not merely a soldier of fortune, but
he was the son of an Irith Peer—thee was mentioned.
If such a system were maintained—if it were pursued indi-
vidually, it must I,ad to political disaster ; if pursued on a
general scale, it must lead to political calamity. Such was
the desire of the late Government to extend this system, that
they could not let even the Duchy of Lucca, in Italy, escape.
Why might not some member of the Florentine Legation
have done the business of a Minister at Lucca? Might not an
attache to that Embassy have ridden over the Duchy, and
made his statistical report on it in the form of a letter ? Nay,
he might have drawn up his Report in a letter to a lady ?
( Hear, and laughter)—and have it presented through the
agency of his fair friend at the next ball given by her Majesty?
In Switzerland it had been thought necessary to have a report
on the state of manufactures in that country, and a special
ms ion had been sent out for that purpose. Now the Minister
Plenipotentiary had been an old Consul-General, so that the
usual excuse that a diplomatic agent was unfit for the execution
of commercial duties would he of no avail in that case. The
report had been made, but neither the Minister Plenipotentiary
nor the Consul-General had furnished any information. In
France we had a Consul-General with a salary of 1,000/. a
year—a diplomatic establishment costing us 10,0001. a year—
end a consular establishment, consisting of 15 full Consuls,
costing us 4,000/. a year. In 1831 the Government was de-
sirous of obtaining information as to the manner in which the
public accounts were kept in France. Now of the diplomatic
aunts none of the consular body could supply the information.
The Finance Report was made, and it stated that from the
accurate mannerin which the public accounts were kept in France
fraud was impossible, every security being taken against mai-
versation. The Government was justified in the course it had
pu-sued, if they had no confidence in the diplomatic body, or
in their consular agents; but possibly the diplomatic and
the consular bodies might not share in the confidence of the
Government as to the
_perfection of the mode in which public
accounts were kept in France, and that might account for their
want of zeal; and, in justice to those Gentlemen, he should state
that the very day the Report was printed, news arrived in Lon-
don of the defalcation of M. Capiles, one of the public ac-
countants, who had gone off with something like forty millions
of public money. The consular body in these circumstances
might have some reason for holding back the information. It
was a notorious fact, that when treaties were made, Commis-
sioners were always appointed. In the year 1831 or 1832 two
Commissioners went to Paris for the purpose of making a
treaty, which was to be laid on the table after Easter, but it
was not yet laid on the table of he House, and he sup-
posed it was maturing. With regard to the late change
in the Government, he was glad that the country was
not deprived of the services of a gentleman whose
labours were attended with such benefit to the country—he I
meant Mr Bulwer—and if the treaty were concluded it would
be owing to him, and his considerable powers of diplomacy.
With regard to the report of the state of the manufactures of
Switzerland no useful information was obtained, in consequence
of the age of the Consul there. The same might be said of Bel-
gium and France. He now came to Austria, where, beside
his Excellency and the Secretary of Legation, there was a
variety of unpaid attaches—gentlemen who were learning
their profession—and he did not see how they could be better
employed than in obtaining information on the state of the
manufacturers and artisans in the various countries where they
resided. The House would perhaps allow him to allude for a
moment to the state of our diplomatic establishments in the
countries to which the Zolverein extended. He found that
in the districts in which that union operated we had five
diplomatic establishments, with an expense of 20,0004
a year. Of all those places, the one in which a man of
capacity might render the most valuable service to his country
was Leipsic. The Noble Viscount opposite had appointed to
the Consulship of that city a Mr. Jacob Hart. Now, if the
Noble Viscount had searched England over, he could not have
found a person more unfitted for the office. He (Mr. D'Lraeli)
did not ask who Mr. Hart was, who had recommended him,
what might have been his relations with the Noble Lord, or
what might have been his original pursuits; but he would sim-
ply state his belief, that considering everything that appoint-
ment was a disgrace to the :Minister who had made it. That,
however, was only a specimen of the consular system ; and in
justice to the Noble Viscount, he felt bound to say that he was
not sure that in some other place a similarly disgraceful appoint-
ment might not have been made, because consular appoint-
ments seemed to be considered as a refuge for the destitute.
All the men of broken reputations were made Consuls.—
(Laughter.) There was some unfortunate member of a great
Easily who could do nothing, and therefore he was made a
Consul. Why did the public treat the consular establish-
ment with contempt ? Because, although it cost an immense
sum of money, and if properly conducted might be of great
service to the country, there was no party or faction which
was not represented by some member of that establishment.
What was there in the stirring streets of Stutgardt, or in the
bustle of Munich, to prevent the Consuls from devoting a few
moments to the service of their country? Yet what was the
position of the Right Hon. Baronet when he came into power?
The information which he wanted ought to have been found in
the archives of the
,embassy; but that information being
wanting, Mr. Meek was sent on a rambling, scampering ex-
pedition for five or six weeks, for the purpose of preparing that
Report which had been laid on the table of the House.

He thought he had now laid before the House the condition of
every country from the Mediterranean to the Baltic, but he
Might say more—he thought he had referred to every country
from the Nile to the Elbe, and ha believed there was not a sin-
gle town between these two rivers that had not been visited by
the officers of the late Government. There was only one other
country to which he intended to call the attention of the House,
and that was China, where they had sent an officer to discharge
the duties of Plenipotentiary. The officer to whom he alluded
was Captain Elliot, and when he (Mr. D'lsraoli) said that of-
ficer was not competent to discharge the duties imposed upon
him, he believed no man would say he spoke with any degree
of bitterness against Captain Elliot. It was his (Mr. D'lsraeli's)
opinion that Captain Elliot had failed in discharging his duty,
but the real secret was not so much the inefficiency of Captain
Elliot, as it was the position in which he was placed by the
Government. There was a vacilating power between political
and commercial interests entrusted to him, and he did not know
which of them it was his duty to attend to—it was the divison of
duties which brought Captain Elliot into the fatal errors he
had committed. The late Government recal'ed Captain El.
liot as a species of punishment, but what did they do with him
afterwards ? They tni. de him a Consul, they sent him out toTexas
as Consul—( Hear, hear)—ho was put in a position of great
difficulty ; but the old official habits of the Noble Lord led to
the re-appointment of the officer who had committed these
errors in China, and amongst the names published in the last
September Dispatch of 1641, containing the names of General
O'Leary and Mr. Fonblanque, was also the name of Captain
Elliot. He thought he had shown the House such facts as
would enable them to form some idea as to how our consular

establishments were arranged and carried on. There was only
one more point on which he thought it his duty to touch. It
was said that a Consul must have commercial knowledge.
Consuls formerly had the power of examining the registers and
cargoes of ships; but since the Consular Act of Canning, a
Consul could not examine the register or cargo of a
ship ; he hail not, therefore, the power to examine
ships' papers. In old days, a Consul used to clear a
ship, pay harbour duties, and do a number of other
duties which now they did not perform. That, however, did
not constitute the duties of a Consul, who was a superintendent
of commercial interests. The fact was he performed no com-
mercial duties whatever, though he had to defend the commer-
cial interest in the same way as an Ambassador. There was no
difference between the duties of a Consul and the duties of an

SA • • M `." --
Ambassador, but the difference~
of degrees. The plan which
he (Mr. D'lsraeli) proposed was, that in every metropolis where
there should be a diplomatic mission, the consular department
should be conducted under one head. Also that every Vice-
Consul should bear the relation of an attache
to the British Minister in every important place. If the
House adopted this resolution it would be found to operate for
the benefit of the country at large. He believed it would be
the commencement of an era that would lead to the foreign
service of this country obtaining a character very different from
the one which it had hitherto maintained.—( Hear, hear.) If
it were carried out, instead of the present imperfect system, we
should see one coniinuoui service, well-regulated, we.l-con-
dueled, well-educated, and the result would conduce to the
houour of the Sovereign and the welfare of her subjects. The
Hon. Member concluded by moving the following resolution—
" That it appears to this House, that great inconvenience and
injury to the public welfare have arisen from the civil affairs of

her llajesty it; foreign countries being carried on by two dis-
tinct services ; and that, with a view of advancing those com-
mercial interests which at this moment so much occupy our
consideration, it is expedi, nt that measures sl ould be forthwith
taken to blend the consular with the diplomatic body."
Lord C. H AMILTON, in seconding the motion, besought
the House to weigh well the plan proposed by his Hon. Friend.
In his (Lord C. Hamilton's) opinion it was well calculated to
obviate the evils of the present sy tern. In the observations
which he was about to make, he would avoid, as much as pos •
sible, going into unnecessary details, nor would he indulge in
any personalities, or is any observations on the • appointments
made by the Noble Lord opposite, while he was in office.
The subject was one of the utmost importance to the merchants
of England, and every thing that affected their interests waa
worthy of the most anxious attention of the House.
When he regarded the
and`
of the subject in a com-
mercial, apolitical, and statistical point of view, and the great
advantage that must result to the country if a more efficient
diplomatic service existed, he hoped he might be allowed to make
a few observations.—( Hear, hear.) But More he entered on
the subject, he begged to say that he had no apprehension that
the Noble Lord, now at the head of the Foreign Department,
would make any appointments in the consular service, which
would be prejudicial to the public interests. Viewing the ex-
tent of the commercial transactions of the country, the frame-
work of their present consular establishment seemed to him to
be extremely defective. It was surprising to find how imper-
fect was the state of our consular establishments. There was
no digest of laws to which consuls could refer or which guide
them in emergencies. There had been certa'nly a considerable
re-modelling of the consular body in the time of Mr. Canning.
Merchants had formerly been appointed to the offices of consuls;
but the inconvenience of that system had been felt, and a dif.
ferent system was adopted. Not only were there no rules for
guiding the consuls, but t here were actually no quaLfications
for assuming the office. It was not necessary that there should
be any previous commercial knowledge, any acquaintance with
the language, habits, and feelings or the people among,t whom
they were to reside. The appointment was arbitrary; it was
generally conferred upon persons of advanced age, in broken
fortune, who were totally unqualified to perform efficiently the
duties of their office. Were it otherwise the Government
would not be under the necessity of sending out a person to
collect information; that expense would be saved to the country.
He thought the country had a right to say that if these Gen-
tlemen were to receive such high salaries they ought to per-
form the duties well which apinTtained to their dice, or if
they did not do that their salaries should be diminished. The
arbitary system of promotion which was observed in the con-
sular establishment naturally tended to prevent young men of
ability and talent from turning their attention to the studies
necessary to fit them for the office of Consul. There were now
170 Consuls in the Establishment, at a cost of 100,000/. a
year, and he thought it would be desirable so•to arrange that
those who acted with ability, and who were of service to the
country should be enabled to look forward to promotion.
At present, however, it was notorious that the highest con-
sulships were given to those who had not been brought up so as
to be fitted for the duties required of them. He would now
advert to Mr. Wood, of whom mention had already been made

by the Hon. Member who receded him. He did not wish in s
any way whatever to depreciate the merits and exertions of that
gentleman. But what he had to complain of was that a gen-
tleman's duty should be so vague and undefined; and, that
holding no higher rank than that of Vice-Consul he should
have to exercise such great powers. What were the functions
which this gentleman (Mr. Wood) discharged? He excaed
an insurrection in Syria—he headed an army—and.was saluted
as chief by two armies in the field. He was the medium of
conveying decorations from the Porte; and he had a
quantity of blank firmans for the appointment of Emirs,
to fill up at his pleasure. He also pardoned crimi-
nals on his own responsibility ; and interfered with the
proceedings of our Gallant Admiral and his officers.
He acknowledged that the case was one of a peculiar nature.
It was not the ordinary duty of a Consul to directs a province in
a state of war. But he wished these peculiar cases to be met
in a peculiar manner, and not to be thrown on the Consuls.
The ordinary duty of Consuls, if appointed in Europe, were
not very arduous, and not of much difficulty. It was merely
to make half-yearly reports of the corn trade, forward com-
mercial information, or anything that bore on European com-
merce, to relieve distressed seamen, and other duties which
were regularly defined. What he found fault with was, that in
an inverse ratio, as the sphere of the duties was extended, and
as they became more difficult, they were less defined, and the
Consuls had less guidance for their course of actionr This was
a state of things that it well became the House to inquire into.
The position of the Consuls differed very materially, according
to where they were placed. His Hon. Friend had alluded
so ably, and at such length, to the way in which the Consuls
were mixed up with the, diplomatic body, that he should not
go farther into it, but should merely allude to the ex-
traordinary position of their Consuls in the Levant
There their duties were perfectly inconsistent ; they were
obliged to act as magistrates, as notaries, and as offi-
cials of the board of health ; and it was for these that
instructions and regular orders were wanted. In criminal
cases, the Consuls in the East were obliged to withdraw persons
from the native jurisdiction,and try them without either counsel
or jury. These powers were given by stipulations granted to
the Levant Company, and though the Company was extinct
yet we still claimed the powers, and it was therefore necessary
that very great discretion should be used by the Consuls to
prevent the subjects of her Majesty from, in any way, infringing
the laws, or exciting animosity in the Turkish authorities,
which might possibly lead them to withdraw their protection
from us. The duty of Consuls was most extraordinary and
general. In all civil cases they adjudicated between British
subjects and the subjects of other states. They could fine an
individual and imprison him, yet they had generally no
legal knowledge; they were obliged to consult the
assessors, and the only remedy and safe-guard they
had was, either to submit to imprisonment, or
to pay the fine inflicted upon them. In criminal cases the Con-
sul could withdraw the criminal from the operatien of the Local
Courts. If he was an Englishman he sent him over to England,
and the moment he arrived in England he was at liberty. An
examination of the state of the law in Malta and the loni-an
Isles would show that, as viva voce examinations were required,
encouragement was given to criminals in proportion to their
crimes. Surely the House could not wish such a state of
things to continue. He would not trouble the House with
many instances of the injurious effects of th.t system as it was
at present conducted, but he hoped the House would see that
the subject was one that deserved its attention.
There was one case to which lie would direct their notice; it
was the case of Mr. Larkins, the Consul at Alexandria. He
had been Consul there during the Syrian warfare, and for his
good conduct he had received the approbation of the Noble
Lord atihe head of the Foreign Department. He had ren-
dered most essential services to that country, for on account of
his high character end influence in Egypt he had been enabled
at all times to procure access to Mehemet Ali. His health
had suffered in consequence of his arduous exertions, and he
had applied for leave of absence to come to England on ac-
count of his health. He had afterwards applied for a further
extension of his leave, and the Noble Lord had written in re-
ply, s-ating that with regard to the reduction in the salary du-
ring his absence he regretted to say he could not depart from
the general rule, and considering it improper that any person
engaged in commercial pursuits should hold the office of Consul,
he (the Noble Lord) had deemed it advisable to advise her
Majesty to cancel his (Mr. Larkins) appointment of Consul at
Alexandria, and to nominate Mr. Stoddart as his successor.
Mr. Larkins remonstrated, and stated that he had long since
ceased to be engaged in commercial transactions. The Noble
Lord replied that his being engaged in agricultural pursuits in
Egypt would be equally objectionable, and that he (the Noble
Lord) was convinced that the change which lie had recom-
mended was for the benefit of the public service, and that there-
fore he could not advise her Majesty to make any alteration in it.
He had mentioned these cases merely for the purpose of showing
the defects of our present system of consular establishments.
He had, however, no remedy of hie own to propose ; and he
would leave it to the House to deal with the subject as in their
wisdom they might think expedient. He hoped that some
plan would at length be adopted for effecting an improvement
in the system. He concluded by apologizing for having E 0
long detained the House, in seconding the motion.
Mae- a considerable pause, and cries of " Question, ques-
tion," Dr. Bowring rose, and also Lord Palmerston—the
former resumed his seat.
Lord PALMERSTON said—Sir, I certainly (rd imagine
that upon a question affecting a great public establishment,
some one of her Majesty's Ministers—( The Speaker here
intimated that Dr. Bowring had caught his eye, and accord-
ingly Lord Palmerston sat down amidst great laughter. )
Dr lit) WRING thought with the Noble Lord that on such
a great subject, some Member of her Majesty's Government
would express an opinion.—( Hear. ) But as the Hon. Gen-
tleman the Member for Shrewsbury had done him the honour
of following him through the countries into which he had had
the privilege of being sent by her Majesty's late Government,
he would trouble the House with a few observations. It was
of great importance to the comfort and safety of our travellers
that they should receive assistance from our consular estab-
lishment. He thought the pre_en. system required great reform.
Bathe (lid not think the Hon. Gentleman or the Noble Lord
who followed him had touched at the root of the evil; which
he (Dr. Bowring) thought was in the defective education of
the gentlemen who filled those departments. They were
geneteilly chosen at a time of life when they were not capable
of apelying themselves to the acquirement of the knowledge
necessary for the efficient discharge of their important duties.
It was his conviction that England, instead ef bring worthily
represented abroad, was most unworthily and defectively re-
presented.—( Hear, hear.) Many of the Consuls were wholly
ignorant of the language as well as the laws, customs, and
commercial interests of the people amongst whom they were
sent to represent this great commercial nation, and promote
its interests. But he did not think the Noble Lord, the late
Secretary- for Foreign Affairs, was to blame more than his
predecessors ; for, in fact, he did-not believe that the materials
for forming a good consular establishment ex sled. Let
the House look to the way in which Consuls were se.
lected. Gentlemen who had influence in that House pressed
upon the Government the selection of their personal friends.
When they were removed into remote regions their corres-
pondence was almost unknown, and neither Parliament nor the
public had the means of forming a correct estimate of these
parties. He should wish to see the Consular returns laid re-
gularly before Parliament, as that would be the only means of
knowing who did their duty and who did not. The Noble
Lord had referred to the situations of the Consuls in the
Levant. It was known that there the) exercised the func-
tions of Magistrates, and they were Judges, both in civil and
criminal matters. There was hardly a single Consul there who
knew the language of the country in which he lived. Many were
appointed to the office on the decline of life ; and in one
instance a Consul was assassinated by his servant because he could
not sufficiently explain himself in the language of the country.
He would not go over the ground traversed by the Hon. Mem-
ber for Shrewsbury, but he would make one observation with
respect to his (Dr. Bovrring's) Report on Candia, as it had
been referred to by the Hon. Member. When he was travel-
ling in Syria it was his privilege to fall in with Mustapha Pacha,
a man of most extraordinary character. The information he
had sent :with respect to Candia he found confirmed by this
personage, and he therefore added that report as a kind of
addendum to the report upon Syria; although it was not neces-
sary for him to do so, yet he felt assured that with reference
to M. Anglais it was of great value. He (Dr. Bowring) had
seen that report translated into foreign languages, and he had
great pleasure in having received testimony from other coun-
tries of its value. The lion. Gentleman the Member for
Shrewsbury went out of his way to refer to a Report he (Dr.
Bowring) had made with respect to the French accountancy.
He would say that the French accountancy was the most
perfect in existence. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James
Graham) had applied the principle with great advantage to the
accounts of this country.
Sir. R. PEEL said he wished to say a few words, not so
much with reference to this subject as with reference to the
speech of the lion. Member for Shrewsbury, who had brought
forward that motion. The Hon. Gentleman had referred to
a peculiar appointment in 1830, a period at which he (Sir R.
Peel) had nothing to do with public affairs; of course he was
unable to speak of the personal qualifications of the gentleman
appointed ; be must therefore refer to the general question upon
which the Hon. Member grounded the motion he bad brought
forward. He alluded to that minion which implied a direct
opinion, and which required that House to affirm that opinion
—that great inconvenience arid injury had arisen to the public
welfare from the civil affairs of her Majesty in foreign countries
being carried on by two distinct services ; and that with a view
of advancing those commercial interests which at this moment
so much occupied their consideration, it was expedient that
measures should be forthwith taken to blend the consular with
the diplomatic body. That was, that the House should express
and opinion without any qualification that the diplomatic and
and consular functions ought to be united in the same person.
fle (Sir R. Peel) was net prepared to give his assent to that
proposition. He was not prepared to affirm, without qualifi-
cation or reserve, that in all cases the diplomatic and cone ar
functions must be in the same person. Questions of this kind
should, of course be decided by authority. Now, so
far as authority was concerned, he could find no authority
which held it to be necessary that these two functions should be
united, except the speech of the lion. Member.—( Hear, hear,
and a laugh.) Because in the first place he found that in 1825
this very question occupied the attention of the House, and
then they were called upon to form an opinion upon the sub-
ject. if he were asked to name two men who were most calm-
lated to form a judgment on this question, whether it was desi-
rable or not that the diplomatic and commercial functions should
be united in the same person, he should name Mr. Canning
and Mr. Huskisson, and he found that a Bill had been
brought in upon this subject by these two men It was quite
clear, therefore, that upon consideration •at that tune,
their opinion was that the consular and diplomatic functions
ought to be disunited. Some years ago a Committee of that
House was appointed fully to consider the state of the con-
sular establishments. It comprised the names of many indivi-
duals perfectly well qualified to form a judgment on the sub-
ject. On the Committee were Lord Palmerston, Lord Lowther,
eiir J. Graham, Lord Stanley, Sir U. Vivian, Mr. Poulett
Thompson, together with a great number of names of com-
mercial men, Mr. Hutt, Mr. Warburton, Mr. M'Kenzie, the
lion. Gentleman Dr. Bowring himself, Mr. Ferguson, Lord
Mahon, and a number of others. This Committee was ap
pointed acutely to inquire into the consular department. Evi-
dence was brought before that Committee, and in the course
of that evidence the question of whether it was fitting to unite
the consular and diplomatic functions was fully gone into. The
Report of that Committee was no': in favour of it.
The principal inquiry before that Committee appeared to
be directed to the question whether or no the
Consul should correspond with the Board of Trade, and whether
the consular establishment should be under the Board of
Trade or under tLe Foreign-office. But the weight of autho-
rity was against this, and it was consideied that the consular
department should be continued under the Foreign-office. The
quest ion was duly considered as to the union of the diplomatic and
consular functions, and that Committee contained the names of
men peifeetly capable of forming a judgment on the subj 'et,
arid that opinion was, that the consular and diplomatic functions
should be separate. Considering, so far as authority went, the
House (.f Commons appointing a portion of its body to consider
this subject, there was no one authority in favour of the motion
brought forward—viz., in favour of a motion for the consular
to be blended with the diplomatic functions. He ( Sir R.
Peel) must say the House of Commons ought to be cautious in
affirming a resolution in favour of a proeosition of this kind.
N av, with respect to the part of the proposi-
tion which stated that men should be appointed
to these offices perfectly calculated to conduct the commercial
affairs of the country in the department in which they are
placed. There might be circumstances in which it might be
perfectly fitting to employ men whose attainments did not
extend to commercial transactions. On that ground also he
should refuse his assent to a universal proposition like that pro-
p. osed Looking to the reports, he could not see how the
pro-
position could be carried out. He looked at the different con-

fular departments—he found that in Calais, Paris, Havre, Bou-
logne, Oporto, and many other places, there must be Consuls,
and the men ought to be qualified lot the office. If he was told
that the men were unqualified, he should readily believe that a
British functionary should be employed to watch over the com-
mercial interests in those qameere, but how could they unite
the consular body with it? How could he affirm a resolution
that the consular should be blended with the diplomatic body ?
It was a universal unqualifledproposition. He would take the
case of a great country such as America, where he could
show that it was necessary to have a consul where there was no
diplomatic functions. Now, if this was so, how could they
affirm a proposition uniting the consular with the diplomatic
body ? He took the case- of Archangel, Warsaw, and ether
places, to which the same argument applied; and this was an-
other ground why the Houss of Commons should not affirm a
proposition that the diplomatic and consular bodies should be
blended. At the same time he should be sorry to oppose a pre-
position that in some cases they should be blended. There
were many cases in which, in his opinion, they ought to be
blended ; and there were many cases in which they were blend
ell; and he thought that in every ease where they could be
blende I, and thus save an additional expense, they ought
to be united. But it was impossible. to lay down any
general or universal rule. He thought it should not be
in the discretion of the Executive Government to determine
I in what cases those functions ought to be united, but that they
should have the power in
particular cases, where those func-
tions could be united ; for lie thought it would be a saving of
the public fund. He could not deny, as was stated by the
Hon. Gentleman, that one situation disqualified the party for
the other (as we understood). It was important to the mer-
chants and trade of this country that the persons appointed to
the office of Consul should be duly qualified. With regard to
the question of appointment, this subject would be duly con-
sidered, and with respect to the union of the two functions he
could assure the Hon. Member, that when they could take
place they would, and he (Sir R. Peel) was glad to have that
opportunity of making that public advertisement to all those
who might hereafter apply tohim for appointments—(Cheers)—
to say that he would not interfere with consular appointments
upon political grounds,and he took that opportunity of stating this
for the information of all those who had a disposition to apply,
or who expected an appointment.—( Laughter. ) Every ap-
pointment ought to be inquired into and certificated. No
appointment ought to take place except they could be justified
on the grounds of commercial knowledge and fitness of the
party.—(Hear, hear.) This he hoped would be received as
an answer.—( Laughter.) If he could get this thoroughly
known, he should be willing to resign any particular advantage
as a Minister, and consider himself amply compensated in
getting rid of these applicants..-...( Cheers and laughter). He
could only state that he was fully conscious of the importance
of these appointments, and so far as he could he would see that
they were given to persons fully acquainted with commercial
affairs. He hoped the Hon. Gentleman would not press the
Reuse to affirm a resolution of this kind, as it was contrary
to opinions formed upon the fullest inquiry. He hoped the
Hon. Gentleman would not press his motion to a division, but
if ho did it would be his (Sir R. Peel's) duty, founded on con-
viction, to give a negative to the proposal.
Lord PALMERSTON said le certainly was anxious that
theltight Hon. Baronet and some other Members of the Go-
vernment should state their views of the proposition made by
the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Shrewsbury, because
the speech of the Hon. Member in bringing forward the
motion was ostensibly principally directed to a change in the
establishment in which he (Lord Palmerston) was no longer
responsible. He agreed with the Right lion. Baronet who had
just sat down, that no grounds whatever had been shown by
the Hon. Gentleman making this motion for the proposition
which he had submitted to the House. He (Lord Pal-
merston) would say that he never heard a speech which
was so little supported by evidence, and which was more sup-
ported by assertion than by proof, than that by which the
motion hal been introduced to the House.—( Hear, hear.)
The Hon. Gentleman had toll them that the subject had' occu-
pied his attention for several years; and he had particularly
considered the appointment of Consuls. He (Lord Palmer-
ston) was afraid this was but an unprofitable employment, so
far as enlarging the mind was concerned.—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) If the Hon. Gentleman had taken the trouble to
have studied the written law of nations, or any materials
which would really throw light. on the subject, he thought he
would not have made his motion, or if he had made it, his well-
known ingenuity and talent would have advanced better
grounds than those he had laid before the House. That mo-
tion was to transfer the consular duties to the diplomatic
agents; yet if any thing more strongly fixed in his mind snore
than another, flat was that one. Consuls had performed their
duties to the satisfaction of all ; and yet the Hon. Member
came forward with his usual talent and activity with a
new system, which was to unite the consular with
that of the diplomatic body. Upon the entire ques-
tion it was quite manifest that the Honourable Gen-
tleman opposite had brought forward his proposition for the
purpose of enabling him to enter into details and criticisms
upon the appointments which he (Lord Palmerston) had
made. It was true that every man, no matter what posi-
tion he was in, thought himself' competent to make ' a good
Consul—every man, as the Rtlit Hon. Baronet had said,
whether in the army or navy, or pursuing a mercantile life,
or in legal pursuits, no matter what, he thought his former
course of life fitted him for consular duties. That also would
lead persons to look with a little more caution than they
would otherwise probably have, and when there was -a great
number of candidates, several must be disappointed, and it was
not unlikely that those who had been selected should 'be the
object of criticism. With regard to the question itself Of con-
sular appointments, he was surprised that the Hon. Gentleman
who had turned his attention to it should not see from the
nature of the thing that it was impossible his proposition could
be acted upon. The Hon. Gentleman proposed that the Am-
barsador should perform twofold ditties, that there should
be Consuls who should act as Charges d'Affaires, Vice-
Consuls who should be Attaches. It was plain that the
lion. Gentlemen understood very little about the duties of
those offices. The duties of Consuls were iu many respects to-
tal ly different from those of diplomatic agents. 'I he Consul's first
duty applied to the adjustment of all shipping affairs, and to
the settlement of disputeabs tween the crews of our ships and
their masters; to attend to all complaints made by British
subjects who went to those places for the purposes of trade.
The Consul was charged also with attending to the distress of
British subjects, and to supply them with means to enable
them to return home, and to pored them against the local
authorities. These were the duties which were to be per-
formed by the Consuls, and in their nature they were wholly
different from diplomatic duties. It was true that in places
ltml emuiatinp'isi
multiplied
where there were no ministers, the Consul would have ditties
of a diplomatic nature to discharge. It might be said that
then his duties were political, and in some respects that they
eme of a diplomatic character. How was it possible
that the Government of this country would permit,
suppose twenty or thirty diplomatic agents from
different foreign countries, to bedispersed throughout this coun-
tryt those
Surely a
the
agents
Englishti se iin nst
GovernmentGbe oi
ntuioogtnhpoiesutretnr
thet a
theire
edo
country.
ion,
or°uPtldh°:
lies
to send so many agents to this country—it would be a depar-
ture from international usage. It would either indicate cir-
cumstances calculated to excite suspicion, or it would show an
inconsistency with the arrangements of the country. The
diplomatic agents act by letters given to them by the Govern-
ment who appoint them. They hold their offices durieg the
pleasure of the Government which sent them out. They act
not only by the letters of credit they had obtained from their
twined f
own Governme
thentf, but also by the exequatur which they ob-
fromforeign Government, which might be with-
drawn at any time without any reason being assigned. The
Honourable Gentleman (Mr. D'lsraeli) had converted all
those Consuls into Charges d'Affaires. In the first
place, the Honourable Gentleman had been totally
in error in attempting to do that, for there was no such thing
as a Charge d'Affaires where there was a British Minister, the
co-existence then of a Charge d'Affaires,_ and of a Minister in
the same place was not c impatible according to the nature of
the things. But according to the Hon. Gentlemen's pro-
positions there would be 20 or 30 Charges d'Affaires in a place
where there could be no possible communication with the
authorities, and the Hon. Gentleman could invest them wi h
powers, which they could not possibly exercise. It was plain
then, the plan proposed by the lion. Gentleman was so incon-
sistent, that if the Hon. Gentleman read the report to which
lie had referred, he (Lord Palmerston) was sure he would have
derived much more information from it than the Hon.
Gentleman did by watching the appointments made by the late
Government.—(Hear, hear.) It was perfectly true that there
were many cases—(and the Hon. Gentleman felt the difficulty
of it)—in cases in which the two characters of Consul end
diplomatists were combined ; first when there were no diplo-
matist agents to a place, and secondly from motives of economy.
When questions arose upon the local authority, it was the
duty of consular agents to interfere. That was the case with
the consular service. '1 lie Hon. Gentleman adverted to the
manner in which those appointments were made. He (Lord
Palmerston) was not then speaking of the Government to
which he belonged, but he wished to state that the Executive
Government had not been inattentive to the general principle
which the Hon. Gentleman wished to be pursued, where that
principle could be pursued consistently with the diplomatic cha-
racter, and that the consular duties could be properly fulfilled
first. The Hon. Gentleman said he wished to render a proper
tribute of approval to the Consuls in the Levant. He said
they had performed the duties of their office with satisfaction,
but he ( Lord Palmerston) totally disagreed with the observa-
tions of the Hon. Gentleman. He said there were two species of
duties which those Consuls had to perform, their coasular
duties and diplomatic duties. The Hoe. Gentleman said that
the consular duties were of an inferior kind, and that inferior per-
' sons were appointed to discharge them, hut that the
diplomatic duties were of a superior kind, and that a superior
class of men were appoints:d for them. -That he (Lord P.) did
not at all admit.—( Hear,' hear.) Jr wits- true there existed
a great differeneo between the nature of 'both duties. There
was this important distinction between them: upon 'the dip-
lomatic duties depended peace 'or war with the country,
whereas, although the other duties were of a serious charac-
ter, those grave questions of peace or war could not directly
arise;; therefore, with regard to the Levant Consuls, he ( Lord
Palmerston) did not see that he need do anything else than
confirm the expression of approbation of the Honourable
Gentleman for the proper discharge of the very mixed
duties, which, under the existing circumstances, they were
called upon to perform.—( Hear, hear.) Then the Honour-
Hon. Gentleman went to America.-1 Laughter.) He admit-
mi:ted that in 1831 er;lB32—however, he was not quite cor-
rect as to the dates, because it was not then the arrangements
he alluded to had taken place—but he (Mr. D'lsraeli) said that
many Consuls were then appointed with the character of
Charges d'Affaires. Undoubtedly many Consuls were ap-
pointed by him (Lord Palmerston) with the authority or powers
of Charges d'Affaires, but it was in many instances from
In South mo-
tives of economy that was done. r America it was
quite true that the political interests o, this country were con-
cerned in a minor degree in its commercial relations with that
country, and, consequently, most of the euestions which
arose there were of a diplomatic nature ; yet they
had more er less eeference to the commercial interest
of the country ; therefore he (Lord Palinerston) did not feel
feel that, with a due regard to the state of South America, it
was of importance to have a diplomatic agent there, and it
was therefore essential to give a diplomatic character to the
Consul-General who had the care of the commercial interests
of that country.— ( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman was
not exactly lucky in following correctly the facts—( Hear,
hear)—or from the information which the 'lon.
Gentleman
had received from others with regard to the course which he
( Lord Palmerston) had pursued. The Hon • Gentleman Ir.d
said that a Minister had been firs: appo:ntecl by the late Go-
vernment, and then that Minister had been recalled for the
purporie of giving, hima
(Lord Pahnedrston) an opportunity of
appointing some of his political frien
.s.—( an
and counter
cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman admitted that political adher-
ents should be appointed to offices, but he ( Lord Palmerston)
was very sorry the Hon. Gentleman himself sees an exception
to that rule.—( Lau:Ater. ) peobehly, however, before '
the
determination of the Ses ion the maxim laid tam.be
y the Hon.
Gen.lernan would he practically carried out in his own per-
son.—( Loud laughter.) Then with regard to Colombia, the
Hon. Gentlemen talked of that as if it still existed as a single
colony ; if the Hon. Gentleman knew anything of passing
events—( Hear, hear)—he must have known the Republic of
Colombia was split several years ago into three different
States, namely, first New Grenada, Venezuela, and Bogota.
The Minister who was at Bogota was allowed to continue. It
was not thought fit to do anything harsh by 1,;
m, either by re-
calling him from his place or calling upon him to retire upon a
pemion.; H owever, that M inister came home on leave of absence,
and after being home for two years, be then intimated his
wbh not to return, lola as he was in ill health, that he wished
to retire upon a pension. He was aeconlingly allowed to re-
tre upon a pension, and he was not caled home, as the Hon.
Gentleman said, for the purpose of making room for another.

, -
—(Hear, hear.) The same principle which applied to Bogota
epplied to the other States—a Charge d'Affaires 'and a Consul
caving been appointed in both. The vacancy created by the
restnation of the Consul at Bogota had been filled up without
any increase of expense to the country. The Hon. Gentleman
said that the individual tie (Lord Palmerston) appointed was
net fit for his offiee. The Hon. Gentleman had his opinion
upon that subject, and he (Lord Paltnersten) had his own
opinion.--( Hear, hear.) He would not have appointed
that gentleman if he had not known that his talents
and qualifications were such as 'eminently fitted him
for the office, and he was perfectly convinced that the duties
of the office would be most satisfactorily performed by him.—
(Hear, hear.) It was said that he did not understand the
Spanish language. If no gentleman could be appointed as
Consul who did not perfectly understand the language of the
country to which he was to be sent, the public would be fre-
quently deprived of the services of many useful officers. A
knowledge of any language could be easily acquired, but,
above all others, the Spanish language was the most simple
and easily acquired by a gentleman of ordinary attainments;
ar.d by this time he was sure his Hon. Friend, who he hoped
nad before now arrived at Bogota, in spite of the Hon.
Gentleman opposite (Mr. D'lsraeli), was now perfeetls
able to speak both Spanish and French —( Laughter. )
However, at Bogota the Consul could not be at a loss fora
Spanish iuterpreter, because it was quite clear that several
persons, even amongst the British merchants there, could be
found sufficiently trustworthy to act as interpreters—( Heer.
hear)—so that, in that respect, the Hon. Gentleman must have
been either grossly deceived by the character he had receives,
of the merchants there, or he had only heard of the first act o:
the drama, and then, when the curtain was drawn up, the
representation was very different. When the curtain was
drawn up, the Hon. Gi sitleman found that the Consul-General
was sitting in the discharge of his duties with a very respect
.ble British merchant acting as his interpreter. He (Lord
P.) controverted the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman.
He denied that he gave consular duties to those who were as,
peinted to act as diplomatists, but he thought that
those duties could at least for some years to come be
confined to those who had at present been discharging
them. Then the Hon. Gentleman, following him (Lord P.)
through every region of the earth—(Laughter)—in every
part of which he had the misfortune of incurring the Hon.
Gentleman's displeasure and disapprobation—(Laughter)—
the Hon.- Gentleman next went to Egypt ; there he found a
very respectable gentlemen Mr. Parker, who retired very shortly
after he (Lord P.) came into office. Col. Campbell, and Col.
Hodges were then appointed, and he (Lord Palmerston) might
justly say, he was proud of these appointments.—( Hear, hear.)
The Hon. Gentleman said that Colonel Hodges commenced
his career in Portugal ; true it was he did so--he served for
some time in the army which placed Donna Maria
upon the throne, and distinguished himself in that
service, and he (Lord Palmerston) had yet to learn
that intrepidity and great valour, high honour, and such general
:conduct as attached a distinguished officer to the men under his
command, were to disqualify such a man from holding a respon-
sible office. Those things should rather have qualified him for
the discharge of his duties —(Hear,
.hear.) Again, the Hon.
Gentleman (Air. D'lsraeli) was totally misinformed with re-
gard to the affairs of Servia, and he (Lord Palmerston) f It it
his duty to contradict the Hon. Gentleman's assertion, when
he stated that dissensions or convulsions in that country were
fomented by the British Consul there.—( Hear, hear.)
Now he would say that the appointment of Col. Hodges was ,
one for which he (Lord Palmerston) took some pride to him-
self;
and he would add, that the able manner in which he
performed his duties in Egypt led him to send him to Ham-
burgh.
They had followed the plan proposed by the Hon.
Member opposite where it could be done, and he thought that
the diplomatic arrangements of Hamburgh might well be left
in the bands of those who managed the consular affairs. Now
with regard to Mr. Wood, she Hon. Member said that he had
not performed his duties. The fact was, that Mr. Wood was
not Consul when he first went to Syria, but whilst there he per-
formed services of great importance to the Government in
which he was engaged. Whether the Hon. Gentleman re--
gietted the expulsion of the. Egyptians from Syria, he (Lord
Palmerston) did not knew, but those who did consider that as a
step of good policy, he was sure would acknowledge that Mr.
Wood had rendered great and efficient services to the accom-
plishment of that object. Again, the Hon. Member spoke in
terms, which he (Lord P.) thought might have been spared,
with regard to the Consul at Leipsic. That. Consul had some diffe-
rences with some of the local authorities at Leipsic, but he had
reason to believe that those differences were made up ; and
he (Lord Palmerston) would say that Mr. Wood had furnished
them with some most useful statistical information relative to
that place. The Hon. Member then entered into a long
statement relative to the system pursued by the late Govern-
ment in sending Special Commissions to inquire into and re-
port on matters of a statistical nature. He (Lord Palmerston)
must say that he considered that practice most useful and bene-
ficial. It was all very well to say you'thave Consuls here and
Ministers there, and attachees at anoher place, and what do
yon want with any other assistance? He (Lord Palmerston)
was of opinion that they might have good Ministers, good
Consuls, and deserving Attachees, and yet they might not have
that detailed information which was fit should be acquired for the
benefit of the Government at home. It was possible the greatest
industry might not acquire necessary information. Of this
the Hon. Member had given them a specimen to-night--he
had made them a speech which showed a good deal of indus-
try in a particular way, and yet be had shown such a la-
mentable want of information as would not enable him to
obtain any support for his motion. But were we the only
people who adopted the course which the Hon. Member con-
demned? They would find that at the time of his (Lord P.'s)
lion. Friend's mission to Prussia, with regard to the Com-
mercial League, France and the United States sent over
similar envoys, though they had at the time most able and
efficient ministeas at Berlin. Agin, the French sent Special
Commissioners here to examine and report on our system of
customs. The United States also sent Commissioners to more
than one country in Europe to obtain information with regard
to the Post-office system. If we were wrong, then, we went
wrong in good company. We went wrong in company of the
Right Hon. Baronet opposite, and the Governments of France
and the United States; and so far from that being any reflec-
tion on the diplomatic' ministers, or the consular
ministers, he thought it was only another proof
of the desire of the Government to obtain the most
accurate information. Again the Hon. Member was wrung,
in thinking -that Consuls did not make reports of important
information, both statistical and commercial ; for it was the
duty of every Consul regularly to send home reports of this
kind to the Government.; and the Hon. Gentleman was wren.
theamain when he said that these reports were not read by wrong
Secretary of State. He (Lord Palmerston) would say that
when he was Secretary of State, he read every report
which arrived, from that furnished by the highest
Consul-General to that sent in by the lowest Assis-
tant-Consul in the service.—(Hear, hear.) It certainly was
very laborious reading, and took up a great deal of; time ;
still it was a great mistake to imagine that because there was
a Clerk in the Foreign-office who was the Superintendent of
the consular branch, that the Secretary of State did not give
the same minute attention to those matters whieh it was his
duty to give to every point in his office. The Hon. Member
then thought that it was unnecessary to have sent the person
who was deputed to Naples for the purpose of settling the com-
mercial tariff of the two countries. Speaking of the Minister
of Naples, he (Sir R. Peel ) say that he had always per-
formed his duties with intelligence, integrity, and zeal ; and he
( Lord Palmerston) was one who would not say b 0 if he diii not
think so. The censure of the Hon. Member, then, was mis-
applied ; and it would be, indeed, advisable, if the lion. Mem-
ber would make himself better acquainted with the facts before
he entered into these questions. Mr. -Macgregor was sent to
negotiate some alteration in certain clauses in the tariff; he
discussed the question of the treaty, but had gone farther
than he was instructed to do, and the general arrangement
which he had thought should be accepted by her Majesty's Go-
vernment, was one which he (Lord P.) did not think it his
duty to sanction ; he believed, in consequence, that the treaty had
not to this day been ratified. Again the Hen. Member objected
to the seeding of Mr. Macgregor to Sicily. Her Majesty's
Government having sent Mr. Maegiegor out to revise that ta-
riff, and that they might receive the most detailed accounts
from him, which could not be contained in written despatches,
it was his duty to go to Sicily that he might obtain most per-
fect information. He (Lord Palmersten) felt it his duty, in
in justice to the consular body, who had been much censured, and
whom it was the fashion of Gentlemen in that House, who were
wholly ignorant of the matter of which they were treating,
to censure—to say that though there might be some less per-
fect than others, yet, taking them as a body, there was not a
more able and efficient body in Europe. He (Lord Palmerston)
felt much obliged to them fir their assistance, and he thought
there could bno doubt that they had rendered the greatest
service to the country.--( Hear, hear.) As to the Government
being ill-informed, he would say that, during the time of these
Consuls, the Government of England had been better
informed than any other Goverment iu the world ; that
might appear a bold assertion, but. he said it most
deliberately.—( Hear, hear.) The motion of the Honourable
Member being, he (Lord Palmerston) believed, only an OCCA-•
siert on which he might retail the complaintsof those hundreds
of disappointed candidates for consulships against the more
successful candidates, he need not, perhaps, have gone so
much into the matter contained in his speech. He thought,
however, that he had shown that that part of the Hon. Mem-
ber's scheme, which consisted in the very reverse of the words
he had made use of, viz., " giving diplomatic power to consu-
lar agents" had been followed out by the Government
as far as possible. It came across him that there
were two persons whom the Honourable Momber criti-
cised of -whom he (Lord Palmerston) had yet said nothing,
though it was his duty to do so. The Hon. Member said
that we had a Consul-General in Venezuela, but instead of his
residing there he was living at St. Petersburgh, and the
Consul was dying at LIN', rpool—a very pretty antithesis, but
well suited to the rest of the HOn. Gentlemans' speech. What
was the fact ? The Consul-General having completed a most
important treaty, applied to him (Lord Palmerston)
for leave of absence which he obtained, but said the Hon.
Member' he .was living at St. Petersburgh ; perhaps,
he was, because having his family living there, and taking
advantage of hit leave of absence, he went there.—(Hear.)
He was an able and most valuable public servant ; he had
been a long time at his post, and certainly deserved the
leave of absence which-he obtained. But then the Consul
at Puerto' Cabello died at Liverpool some time ago, and a
Mr. O'Leary had been appointed in his place. Mr. O'Leary
was a naturalized subject of America; he spoke the
Spanish language, and by a long residence in that
country knew something of the people. How could we
think of appointing such a man—one who spoke the
language, and was well acquainted with the country ?
He (Lord Palmerston) must ask the Hon. Gentleman to give
up his case either against the Consul at Bogota or at Puerto
Cabello. He would give him his choice, but he must give up
one or the other. But who was General O'Leary ? He was a
British subject, though by long residence in South America
he had obtained the privileges of a South American subject.
They were not very difficult to obtain, for, after living
there two years, they gave it to you and said, " you shall be
an American subject." General O'Leary became an Ameri-
can subject, he served with great distinction in the Colombian
army, and he (Lord Palmerston) was quite sure that he was
perfectly competent to take care of British interests at Puerto
Cabello. And he would now give the Hon. Member a piece of
information, it was, that this American subject was not acting
as Consul-General in the room of Sir It. Porter during,
his absence ; here then was a double charge
that this person, who understood their language.
and was well acquainted with the country, should be appointed
to perform the duties of his chief. He (Lord Palmerston),
should not trouble the House much farther, he thought he had
gone thiough the names of all those whom the Hon. Member
meant to make his victims. If he had omitted any he hoped
the House would judge of them by those whom he had defended.
He could only say that it was fair warfare for Hon. Members
on one side of the House to say what they pleased
against Gentlemen on the other side; and anything personal
lie might have urged with any
against him (Lord Palmerston)
degree of antitheses, or any point of epigram he chose, because
as ihe Right Hon. Baronet said, though now out of office, he
had aright to defend himself; but he thought' it-
not very be-
coming for a Member of that House to draw into the matter per-
sons who had no connexion with the party persons sensitive of
their character, more so perhaps than Hon. Members might
suppose—and whose power of serving their country depended
much on the weight their characters. bore.—(Hear, hear. )
He would therefore beg of the Hon. Gentleman that while ha
eave him the fullest permission to turn his steel on himself—( A
laugh)
—while he gave him the amplest liberty to attack him,
he would, in behalf of those who were serving the country in
official situations, entreat of him to spare their feelings, and
that he would take pains to make himself acquainted with
the facts on the subject before he stated in that House what

would go forth to the public and inflict pain, and perhaps in-
jury, on the public servants of the country.—(Cheers. )
Mr. SMYTHE said that although it might appear presump-
tuous in him to rise after the statements made by the
:tight lion. Baronet and the Noble Lord, he would beg
the indulgence of the House for a few moments. He
agreed with the Hon. Member who introduced the motion
that improvements might be made in the consular establish-
ments, and he had no doubt that, if the consular body receiver'
larger pay, they would be more inclined to attend to the infor-
mation which was expected from them. The lion. Member for
Bolton might, in sucha case, expect an appointment, and he
might exclaim, with the poet :
" Oh ! fortunarn natam, me Consule, Romam."
(A laugh.) But he could not give his assent to the sweep-
ing condemnations of his Hon. Friend. The Hon. Member
spoke of the appointment of Mr. Wood and the Syrian expedi-
tion in disparaging terms, but he could not agree with him in
that opinion. His Hon. Friend also spoke of the Noble Vis-
count opposite in a manner to which he (Mr. S.) could not
give his assent. He thought that Noble Lord had performed
,he duties of his cffiee with great ability, and that in the
treaty of London he displayed some of that consummate skill
for which his illustrious ancestor, Sir William Temple, was so
celebrated, who concluded the treaty of Nimcguen with sue!.
ibility in a former period of their history_(liar, hear. )
He (Mr.- S.) was of opinion that the consular es-
tablishment should be confined within those limits defined bs
Mr. Canning, and he thought that the duties of Consul should
not be confided to persons engaged in trade. Sonic of the
Consuls, he believed, were allowed to trade, and others wen
not. The Consul at Venice was refused the liberty, but it
was allowed to the Consul of Trieste. The same distinction
was observed with regard to the Consuls of St. Petersburgh
and Odessa. The leading object of the Consuls was, it had
been observed, the procuring of commercial information for the
country ; and that being the case, he saw great objectiors might
exist in the way of affording such information. The info.ma
tion was obtained as well for the public as for the Government-
and it could not be expected--at least it was not wise—that the'
private interest of the Consul as a merchant should be at
variants, as it was, with the information he was obliged to
afford the public on commercial subjects. A Consul
engaged in trade was also liable to the accidents cf
other persons engaged in trade, and he might become
a bankrupt. And, in his opinion, it was not right that the inte-
rests of a great nation should be placed in the hands of such
persons. He threw out the hint for the consideration of the
Right Hon. Baronet, who might perhaps be induced to take the
matter into his serious consideration.
Mr WILLIAMS rose amid cries of " Oh, oh." He would
not occupy the House for any length of time. He wished
merely to direct the attention of the House to the want of
a Consul at Cracow. 'Austria, Russia, and Prussia, had Con-
suls there, and he believed if the English Government had an
agent in that place, its occupation by foreign troops would be
r prevented. He had no doubt that the establishment of a Consul
at Cracow would be consisiered by the people of Poland as a
manifestation of the feeling, towards that' unhappy country,
of the people of England.
Sir WILLIAM SOMERVILLE did not rise for the pur-
pose of addressing any lengthened observations to the house,
but there was one subject alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman
a Inch, in his opinion, did not receive a sufficient answer; he
alluded to the unworthy attack made by the Hon. Gentleman
upon the Minister at the Court of the Two Sieilies. He (Sir
W. Somerville) in a subordinate situation, had the honour of
serving under that Minister, and he was bound to state that a
better or more able individual was not to be found in the
foreign service of the country.—( Hear, hear.) The impression
which the Hon. Gentleman sought to make, by his ob erva-
tions, on the House was, that the individual had been selected
by the Noble Viscount (Lord Palmerston) on account of his
relationship, and had been placed above others on ac-
count of the affinity which he bore to him. But
the fact was, that he was one of the oldest diplomatic servants
in the service of the country, and he made his way up from an
humble post to the high position which he now held.—(Hear,
hear.) He (Sir W. S) having had the honour to serve
under him, and the pleasure of his friendship, could not sit
down without offering that tribute to him.—( Cheers. )
Mr. WARD said that he was happy to bear his testimony to
what had just fallen from the Hon. Baronet, because he (Mr.
Ward) was also connected with the Hon. Mr. Temple in the
year 1816. But he would net have alluded to the subject at
all if the motion of the lion. Member could have been followed
by any practical result. The Right lion. Baronet opposite
had given unanswerable reasons why no person could vote for
it in its present shape. There was one point to which he wished
to call the attention of the House, which was, that when they
..had a diplomatic establishment in the centre of the country,
they should not encumber it by having a resident Consul in
the capital. The young men attached to the foreign diplo•
matic departments might be accustomed to more attention to
the commercial intercourse between this country and the
country in which they resided, by making the correspondence
of the Consuls pass through their hands. In South
America a large establishment of Consuls. General
had been appointed by Mr. Canning, by means of
which the country had derived much advantage. As to what
had fallen from the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury, with re-
gard to the ignorance of the Consul-General of Bogota of the
language of the country, it did not appear to him (Mr. Ward)
to be at all necessary for the interests of the country that
such knowledge should be possessed. One of the mist
brilliant diplomatists which this country ever possessed, he
meant Lord Hey tesburv, was totally unacquainted with the
Spanish language when he was at the Court of Spain,
but that did not in the least disqualify him from giving
useful directions to the Consuls of the country which he re-
presented. It was always to be supposed that communications
might be easily carried on through the medium of trustworthy
persons, as interpreters; at the sime time it might be
desirable that a knowledge of the language of the
countries where they were placed should be ob-
tained by persons entrusted with diplomatic duties.
They could never in this country make diplomacy so far a pro-
fession as to induce persons to adopt it, as they did in other
countries. When one Government in this country superseded
another, they were obliged to have persons in their
own immediate confidence, and therefore persons
were placed over the heads of others, and appointed
to situations to which they might not be so well en-
titled. He was inclined to think that some good might result
from the motion of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, but, if he
pies ed it to a division, lie (Mr. Ward) should feel it his duty to
vote against it.
. Mr. LABOUCHERE had a few word; to say in consequence
of what had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman. The late Go-
vernmeut had thought it so inexpedient that there should be a
Minister and a Consul-General resident in a fort ign metropolis,
that he believed his Noble Friend (Lord Palmerston) abolished
the situation of Consul-General where there was a resident
English Minister. This was the case In Paris, Madrid, Mexico,
Buenos Ayres, and Naples. He believed there were two or three
places where there was a British Minister, and a Consnl-General
also ; but those places were particularly situated. *iamburgh was
one of those places, where the extensive nature of their commercial
intercourse required an English Consul.
Captain PLUMRIDGE said it was evident that every English
Consul ought to understand commercial business. No situation
was more difficult than that of a captain of an English man-of.
war, when called on, as he frequently was, to act as an English
Consul, and to arbitrate between the captains of merchant
vessels and their crews. The Consuls had no power to do this,
and he hoped whoever had the appointment of Consuls would give
them this power.
Mr. D'ISR A ELI replied. He said he had to thank the Noble
Viscount for his aspirations for his (Mr. D'lsraeli's) political pre-
ferment, and if he had learned any of the secrets of the Noble Vis-
count's astonishing career by which he had continued to hold
office with every Government for the last twenty-five years—
( Hear, hear)---he should think the debate had been productive of
some advantage. He dissented entirely from the principle laid
down by the Noble Viscount, that they were not to question the
personal character of an appointment as Foreign Minister, that the
Government was responsible, and If they thought a person who
was appointed was not a proper character, they had not the
power to question the propriety of that appointment. It had pot
been his object to enter into personal details ; if it had been he
could have adduced four times the number.of cases he had done ;
but he had not instanced any cues of a personal nature, except as
illustrative of the principle he advocated. The Noble Lord as..
serted that he wanted knowledge of the subject, that he ought to
have read the Report, and have studied the law of nations, and
then he would have seen that a Consul required an exequatur.
But he might venture to say that he had not erred, as neither the
Noble Lord himself, nor any other Hon. Member had denied the
principle he wished to enforce. He denied that he had attacked the
character of the Hon. Member for Haddington, and said that though
-the Right llon. Baronet, the leader of the House, had declured
that the responsibility of separating the commercial and diploma.
tic duties of Consuls was too great, yet no one had defined what
those duties were. It had been said that they had to arbitrate
between captains and their crews, and attend to the clearing of
vessels, but these were to some extent diplomatic acts. What were
these commercial duties ? What was their commercial character?
No one had described it. Though the fate of the motion was evi-
dent*. yet nothing had been elicited during the debate but what
must tend to advance his view of the question.
The motion was then put and negatived without a division.
INTERMENT IN CITIES,
Mr. MACKINNON robe to move for a Select Committee, to
consider the expediency of framing some Legislative Enactments
(due respect being paid to the rights of the clergy) to remedy the
evils arising from the interment of bodies within the precincts of
large towns, or of places densely peopled. He raid, In bringing
forward the motion of which he had given notice, he trusted he
should .he excused' for making a few observations on the subject
under contemplation. He was first Induced to bring the subject
forward front having been a member of the Select Committee, ap-
pointed the Session before last, to inquire into the state of large
towns, and though the object of the Ccaninittee was not precisely
the same as the present motion, yet, the subject
incidentally came under their view, and he had
thought it of such importance that he had been
indnced to give it his best consideration. Subsequent to that
many persons in the City of London, and several individuals
of high character, had mentioned to him their desire that the sub-
ject should be brought forward. Under these circumstances, there:
fore, he trusted be should not be thought presumptuous if he endeat,
voured to show the House the necessity of the measure he should sub.
mil to their notice. For many centuries they had kept masses of filth
and corruption within the walls of large and populous towns,
while almost every nation of Europe had adopted the plan of de-
tached burial-grounds. The object he had in view, had, he believed,
the sanction of her Dl:lesty's Government, and of the leading members
of the Church, and that object was to prevent the inhumation of the
dead-within the walls of large towns and populous cities. How it
was possible that such a custom could be so long persisted in in
this country, passed his comprehension ; and perhaps the House
would be surprised when he informed them that in almost all the
nations of the world a different system of things had been as, rued.
The ancient Egyptians had the custom of burning their dead ;
the Greeks adopted the same custom ; and the Romans followed
the same practice. It was one of the laws of the Twelve Tables
that nobody should be burned ria, buried within the precincts of a
town or city. It was impossible for any practice to be so injuri.
ous to health as the practice they now observed. He believed
that, setting aside the custom of the ancients, and looking solely
at the injunctions of the primitive Church, they would find that
the early Christians did not allow the dead to be buried either
within their towns, or within the church. The first person who
was buried within the walls of a church was the Christian
Emperor Constantine, who had been a Pagan.—(Laughter.)
Now he would come to the point, by quoting the opinions of two
or three medical men on this subject. Mr. Clark stated, that the
effluvia caused in churches by the decomposition of the dead buried
L-cneath and around was most pernicious to the health of congrega-
tions and inhabitants. The Lancel contained set eral illustrations
of this truth. In short, the inhumation of bodies within towns
was universally admitted to be bad. The heads of the Church, and
the city of London, had communicated this ft-cling to him. He
knew this was the feeling of the public at large, and therefore he
felt it his duty to bring forward the subject, convinced that the
Legislature would take it up, and with these few uortis he would
read the inction.—( Rear, hear.)
Dr. BOWRING, in seconding the motion, rejoiced that this
country, which was behind every country in Europe in this respect,
had at last taken up this important question. The best eflects had
already resulted front the interference of the Legislature in burials
in France and Spain, and he looked also fur the Lest results from
legislative interference here.

Mr. WAKLEY was quite grateful to the Government for ae.
ceding to the motion. He hoped the Hon Gentleman would take
care that no cemetery proprietors should be on the Committee-_
(Hear, hear)—and also that the Committee should inquire into the
heavy charges the poor had to pay in some burial grounds. He
heard that in a neighbouring cemetery a poor man's grave cost 10s.
He would give the name of his authority fur this fact to the Hen.
Gentleman. They should take care that no monopoly should result
from the proposed measure.
Sir J. GRAHAM was decidedly of opinion that the time was