The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-05 00:00:00

anything humiliating or disgraceful to either country, been hampered in his operations by the views of his
he would say look to their whole policy, and say if any colleagues, but now that he was assisted with the co-
concession had been asked upon the one hand or offered operations of an able Lord-Lieutenant and a talented
in
on the other, which would not have been asked and con- Secretary, might justly be anticipated. With re-
ceded if the circumstances had been reversed. He wished gard to the grant
anttolklaynooth, he must say the mode
the Noble Lord would, on some opportunity, take the and manner of that grant had tended greatly to enhance
sense of the House on the question, whether the course the reputation of the Government, and he should thick
which bad been adopted was not the most consistent must be a source of no small satisfaction to the people of
with sound policy, and dictated by wisdom. As he had Ireland. He, however, regretted that the Right Hon.
said before, the Government had indulged in no boast at Baronet did not intend, in any respect, to interfere with
the close of last session. They had taken credit only Trinity College, but still there was much for congratu-
for having acted with justice and moderation.—(Hear.) lation in what the Right Hon. Baronet had promised to
They had applied the terms to the conduct of both coun- do, and he should look upon it as the first step to an im-
triesnand in that there was no arrogance. The House portant and extensive improvement in the condition of
would- judge whether the statements made with respect her Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects.—(Cheers.)
to the state of the country—the improvement of trade— The lion. C. P. Villiers and Mr. Sheil rose toge-
the continuance of tranquillity —and the absence of po'i- ther to address the House, but there being loud calls
tical anxiety in Great Britain at least, were not justified for Mr. C. P. Villiers, the latter gave way.
by facts which were an indication of that prosperity Mr. C. P. VILLIERS thought the House was unwil-
upon which her Majesty congratulated Parliament. lie ling to prolong the discussion, and he should therefore
should shortly have measures of great importance, when take up but a small portion of their time. When he
it would be for the :'.owe to decide whether the honour considered the calmness and good humour in which the
and lutcrest of the country had been neglected and its House had met on that occasion ; when he reflected
condition deteriorated—or, that her Majesty's present upon the question which had preduced that agreeable
Government were worthy of that confidence from the feeling, he could not help making one or two observa-
House, without which no Ministry could subsist. tions upon it. It was stated that great prosperity existed
Lord J. RUSSELL wished to explain what be had in the country, and this circumstance had been fully ad-
said upon a subject of so much importance to this mitted by the Hon. Member who seconded the address.
country and to France as the case of Mr. Pritchard. He The Hon. Member went fully through the great change,
h-d given no opinion as to whether the reparation given the great improvement, which had taken place in the
was sufficient or net. Her Majesty's Government were circumstances of this country, remarking at the same
satisfied, and he was, therefore, satisfied that the repara- time up n the genial improvement in the commerce end
tion was sufficient. What he had said was, that when to o manufactures of the country. The Hon. Gentleman
Governments were en amicable terms and the beat un- not only admitted this improvement but proceeded
derstanding, the question out ht to have been settled to speculate upon the causes which had produced it.
without delay, and the chance of a rupture between the Now he must say that, considering the divided opinion
two countries have been prevented. in that House, it was improper to begin the session with
Sir C. NAPIER, who was for some time inaudible the discussion of such a question. A more important
from the noise in the House, expressed his thanks to the question to raise than that which had brought about a
Noble Lord for having brought the case of Mr. Prit- change from great distress to flourishing improvement—
chard before the House. M. Guizot himself had ad- from great deterioration of labour to a more than ordi-
mhted that the case of Mr. Pritchard was the case of nary increased value—from a great depression of corn-
humanity and justice. The Noble Lord at the head of merce to one of prosperity and improvement—could not
Foreign Affairs had demanded a great deal, but nothing be mooted on such an occasion. There bad hitherto
had been yielded to his demands. If a British officer had been two parties in that House who entertained decided
behaved to a French subject, under the same circum- opinions upon this subject. Each had enforced their
stances, in the manner in a which a French officer had, in views and supported them with peculiar energy in that
this case, behaved to a British subject, he had no best- House. The Hon. Gentleman who seconded the address
tation .in saying that, upon a court-martial, he would belonged to one party, and he had the honour to be con-
have lost his commission. lie would ask the Right Hon. netted with the other. The Hon. Member was dis-
Baronet why it was that all this had taken place ? posed to impose restrictions upon commerce, but be held
Where was the British Admiral ? Why was he not at an opposite doctrine. One of those doctrines had pro-
Otaheite to prevent all these eccentricities ? Why was duced the change, and it now became important for the
there only a small ketch to represent this nation, when House to decide and determine which of those views
the French had a large force ?—(Hear.) The only were correct. He believed he might now state that
excuse for the very slight reparation which had been every promise which the protective system held out to
made was, that the present Government had reduced the the country had been defeated, and that every object
navy to so low a state that we dare net show a bold face of protection had been disappointed. The protec-
to the French Government, and tell them that we would tive system which composed the important party
not allow such things to proceed. Why, at e e very opposite had fortunately been relaxed, and the result of
moment when this was going on, there was only ono that relaxation had been fully stated by the Hon. Gen
three-decker at Plymouth, and only an 80 gun ship at tleman who seconded the address. The object of this
Portsmouth, ready for service ; while the French had protective system was to maintain high prices, and every
steam-boats which would have enabled them to bring one must be convinced this could not produce the change.
ever ten thousand men on the very next day after the Had their combination succeeded, the change could
English Ambassador should have left Paris, to destroy never have been felt ; but to what, then, was the change
the dockyard of Portsmouth or Plymouth. He was ex- to be attributed ? Why, it was to the blessings of Pro-
ceedingly glad to find that the eyes of the Government vidence, and to no other circumstance. He could not,
w re at fast opening in reference to this matter. It was therefore, congratulate the party opposite with having
h's belief that when they had a large navy, there would any credit for it. By the intervention of Providence,
be no more insults, no more eccentricities, and no more the purposes of protection had been defeated--abun-
aggressions ; and he did hope, therefore, that means dance had been created, and prices had been reduced.
would be adopted to render it thoroughly efficient. The Government congratulated themselvc s upon those
Mr. PLUMTRE said he should not have troubled the results. They admitted that it increased commerce, be-
House -with a single word, but for the announcement nefited the people, and made the revenue flourishing ;
made with respect to the late President of the Board of and yet they were allied to the protectionists. He
Trade. With regard to the announcement made by the thought it was moat important to consider this question,
Right Hon. Baronet, he must say that to him that ex- because an Hon. Member connected with the protective
planation was almost unintelligible, and quite unsatisfac- system had risen that night and expressed his
tory.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the announcement alarm lest the Government should relax further this
that it was his fixed determination, without any condi- system. The Hon. Member who thus rose was unfor-
tion, to make further concessions to the Roman Catholics, tunately one of a prevailing party in that House, and it,
though he was quite ready to allow that the Right Hon. therefore, became more important for the country and
Gentleman intimated, at the close of the last session, the House to come to a correct opinion as to what was
that he intended to make further grants, he was very the real effect of this protective system—whether it was
much deceived, if the announcement made by the Right for good or evil—whether it had been beneficial or not,
Hon. Gentleman that evening would not create a very and he did trust that the Right Hon. Baronet at the
considerable sensation.—(Hear, from the Opposition.) head of her Majesty's Government would be guided in
He was quite satisfied that such a sensation would be his movements by no other influence but that which con-
excited ; and certainly, continuing to feel as he had ever tinued the present state of the country. The settlement of
done upon this subject, he should not consider it kis this question must determine their after prosperity as to
duty to attempt to repress such a sensation. He deeply whether to uphold this protective system was wise or
regretted that the Right Hon. Gentleman felt himself not. It was quite clear that the Hon. Gentlemen who
justified in making the announcement which he had formed the majority of that House were disappointed
made to the House and to the country that night- He that the whole country was prosperous, and the
felt very sorry that he had not—if he might so speak— labouring classes comfortable and contented. There
learnt that the course of concession taken by him before was every indication of a continued improvement. but
was an ineffectual course.—(lronical cries of " Hear, still Hon. Gentlemen who represented the majority of
hear.") It was too plain that concessions had only led that House were disappointed, and they were complain-
to further concessions. Concession had ever been the ing.—(Hear, hear.) But it was most important that it
fruitful parent of demand. That it would be so in should be made clear to the country whether they—the
this present case, be was perfectly satisfied, while any- protectionists—were right or wrong. For his part he
thing remained to be demanded.—(Hear, and cheers had no hesitation in saying they had got nothing to
from the Opposition.) The course proposed by the show in support of their system. He, on the other hand,
Right Hon. Gentleman was one not only highly unsatis- showed that the country was prosperous. He asked the
factory to himself, but he felt persuaded that it would country gentlemen opposite what they had to point out in
also he extremely unsatisfactory to every large proportion support of their system? Did they not complain them-
of the community of this country. selves? Were not the tenants of their land complaining?
Mr. WYSE said that when the Right Hon. Baronet, Were not their labourers in a miserable condition?
at the close of last session, intimated his intention with They could not point out any thing or any class that
reference to the subject of Roman Catholic education, had prospered under it. He asked them, then, what ex-
neither he (Mr. Wyse), nor those who acted with him, cuse there was for confidence in this protective system?
considered that he was promising a concession to the He had heard with great satisfaction the
Catholic population of Ireland. He stated that the posi- Noble Lord, the Member for the City of
Lion of things in that country, with reference to ecele- London, express himself against this system.
siaatical affairs, and academical education, imperatively The Noble Lord had proved it to be bad, and the Hon.
demanded an improvement and extension of the means Gentlemen opposite were clearly not entitled to its pro-
of instruction. Maynooth had been very carefully die- tection. The Noble Lord had watched its effects, and
tinguished by the Right Hon. Baronet, from other in- now very properly came forward to expose its evils.
stitutions. That was an ecclesiastical establishment in- Protection was baneful, it was unjust, and ought to be
tended for the education of the Catholic priesthood in abolished. He said, then, they must watch the mea-
Ireland, and as effectual for that purpose as any institu- sures that would be proposed this session, and unless
tion in any country in Europe. The Right Hon. Baronet they could be assured that they were calculated to abo-
had stated in emphatic language that the religion and lish this protective system, he said the Government could
political principles of the institution in Maynooth had not expect to receive their support. He looked forward
been already to a certain extent recognised. The ob- to the measures the Right Hon. Baronet was about to
nervation that if ever so small a sum were granted, it propose with some hope, because he believed the Right
was as effectual an admission of the necessity of such Hon. Baronet mast be satisfied that, so far as he had as
an institution as if the largest grants had been offered yet proceeded, he had good reason to be satisfied
by this country. That was an obvious and common of his declaration in favour of freedom of trade. The
sense view of the question. It was not a financial ques- Right Hon. Baronet had reason, he said, to congratulate
tion, but a question of high moral policy, and as such himself upon what had followed from it, and he had now
it should be treated. He believed that ecclesiastical an excellent opportunity for still further pursuing this
education in Ireland could only be managed beneficially principle. He had little or no opposition—he had the
by leaving it in the hands of the Catholics themselves, whole country placing confidence in him if he would only
in purely ecclesiastical establishments, otherwise they merit it—(Laughter)—and he (Mr. Villiers) must say
would neutralise and negative the benefits which he would well deserve all the responsibility—all the
they professed themselves anxious to confer.— blame, if he neglected to act up to this principle, now he
(Hear, bear.) It would be premature in him was so fully satisfied of its efficacy.—(Cheers.)
to offer. any lengthened remarks at that stage of the Mr. SHEIL apologised for having rose to address the
matter. But he hoped that means would be taken for house with the lion. Gentleman who had just sat
hgiving any institution which might be established the down. The Honourable Gentleman occupying one
ighest moral character, and that its professors would of the back seats, he was not aware that he bad
have not only a religious, but an intellectual eminence risen first, or he should have given way immediately.
and dignity in the country, which would ensure for the Being an Irish Member, and being still of opinion that
institution general respect. II ith reference to the ex- it was possible to induce Englishmen to -take considerate
tension of academical instruction in a secular sense, that and sympathetic views of the evils of Ireland, he might,
was a subject that would demand the closest attention, perhaps, be permitted to say a few words and advert to
Ile could not infer from the word "academical" whether some of the opinions which had been expressed that
it were the intention of the Right Hon. Baronet to em- evening. The late President of the Board of Trade,
brace by his measures schools immediately coming in who had placed himself lower down the House, or more
point of order between the elementary schools and the properly speaking, in juxta position with his former
university, or whether he meant to confine himself to seat, had deprived her Majesty of a valualle servant,
university education alone; but thus much he must say in retiring from office.—(Laughter.) He could not help
in lisaine, that if a mixed system should he found neces- thinking that it was unfortunate that the lion. Gentle-
sary, it would be extremely desirable not only to pre- man should have sacrificed the statesman to the author.
vent the religious opinions of Catholics from being tam- The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government
pered with, but also to avoid wounding the sensibilities had good reason to exclaim, " Oh, that my friend had
of other portions of the community. Ile believed not written a book!" lie had read the book of the Right
that the success of the measure would in a Honourable Gentleman, and it was impossible for him
great degree depend on the observance of these to have read it without remembering that portion of it
particulars. One question of very great importance in that bore upon Ireland. It distinctly treat, d upon the
connection with this subject was that of re-forming and question of Maynooth. The Right Hon. Gentleman con-
orning the University of Dublin. —(Hear, hear.) Re- ceived it was a question of contract. If he said the Irish
serving those unquestionable rights which the Protestant Parliament contracted for the permanent maintenance of
clergy had to an efficient education of their own church, Maynooth, it ought to be maintained in a manner be-
he did not see why the people of Ireland generally fitting the dignity of the nation, and the great task the
should not have the benefit of an institution so largely institution had to perform If such a contract had not
endowed.—(Hear, hear.) lie would reserve all further been made, then the maintenance of Maynooth must
remarks on the subject until the propositions of the depend upon the vote of the British Parliament. Now,
Hight Iron. Baronet had been laid before the House. he contended that it was a matter of contract at the
Mr. BELLEW said he cordially rejoiced that since time of the Union. Care was taken to provide for this
they last met one great source of the amelioration of Ire- contract, and it had been satisfied by subsequent grants,
land had arisen in the projected railways in different extending over a long series of years ; and upon the
parts of that country. He rejoiced at this, not so much Right lion. Gentleman's own showing, it ought to be
because capital would thus be dispersed, as because maintained according to the dignity of the country and
habits of industry and peace would be generated and en- the magnitude of the task it had to perform. In other
eouraged. The benefit would be not in the mere expendi- words, the Right lien. Gentleman said the grant ought
ture of the moment,but in the pereianently improved habits to be large and liberal. Now, he would ask, was 8,000!.
which might be confidently anticipated. In connection per annum a large and liberal grant to provide religious
with this point, he had the strongest hope that the re- education for three millions of persons?—he meant, '
port of the Landlord and Tenant Con:mansion would three millions was the number at the time of
prove very beneficial to Ireland. He had always be- the Union, but now it had increased to the
lieved that in appointing that commission her Majesty's extent of eight millions. Having said thus much,
Government had been actuated not by a desire to he could not help expressing some regret that the
divert public attention, but to secure practical results. Right Hon. Baronet in his speech had not more fully
The question involved was one, in comparison with expressed himself with respect to the question of acade-
which all others seemed unimportant ; and this very mical education. lie had been liberal in his statements
attempt to improve the existing state of things deserved with respect to his intentions relative to Maynooth, but
the gratitude of the country. With regard to the he was very brief when speaking upon academical
Charitable Bequests Bill, he had resided iu Ireland for education. He would tell the Right Hon. Baronet that
the last five months, and had never witnessed anything he would have many difficulties to contend against in
like universal opposition to the measure. Great un- Ireland, unless he made some alteration in the academi-
fairness KO n
nnsrepresentati were resorted to
.by its cal education of Roman Catholics. The Roman Catholic
opponents ; while numbers° who took part in this population of Ireland were bound in honour to use every
agitation, he did not hesitate to say, opposed the mea- exertion to throw open Trinity College, and, until this
sure, not so much on account of its substantial demerits, were obtained, other concessions would be far from favour-
as because they were unwilling
itio consider any measure ably received.
There had, been
an immense
dealte present Government. Mr. SHAW said Trinity College was already open to
1311. of misrepresentation the Roman Catholics.
in Irelanal respecting thiii
gone the Mr. SHEIL in continuation. The Hon, Member for
round of all the Parishea in In laultd, had
the clergy the University of Dublin intimates that Trinity College
would no tenger havecontrol over their co
that the ancient acts pressing upon Itonigreaegati"s' and is already open. He dissented from this. Did the Hon.
which were repealed last year, were to LCathiolics, Gentleman mean to say that every fellowship was open
enacted this. No doubt there were many inju'u,arasto"ouo-shtarned- to Roman Catholics ? Were the professorships open to
unnecessary provisions in the Bill, but it Roman Catholics ? or, in fact, were Roman Catholics at
thought, quite so bad as some people had represented ine all entitled to compete for even the lowest degree
Ireland. He trusted, therefore, her Majesty's Govern, the College ? They were not. (Hear,
of the
And this was a serious loss to all Roman
ment, in bringing measures forward to improve the posi-
a Catholic
b a
of laymen.success Fellowships ell
afterow shl h
ife, oafd t
alsennte andd
men.
enn.e.re
Thet e
tion of the Roman Catholic clergy, would bear in mind
the danger to which they bad exposed themselves in Irmish numbered distinguished men, whose only re-
supporting the principle of this Bill. Another objection commendation at first was, having taken up a degree at
the people of Ireland had to the Bill was, that although one of the universities. No, they would
be satisfied
the Commission consisted of good men, still the Right with nothing but anopeeqou,arlria, and the first step to this
Trinity College. He dissented
Hon. Baronet had the power at any moment to dismiss was the throwing
majority of the
them. Now, no man in that House believed ti at such from the Charitable Bequests
Murray him-
would be the case, but what had occurred during the Roman Catholics were opposed to it. TheD
trial of Mr. (4Connell, would fully jusofy the doubts self, who, to his honour had accepted offirc.e underman them,
and apprehensions of the Irish people. When they re- had declared that he was opposed to
collected the early promotion of Mr. Sergeant of this Bill • and at first he went to
bthisehoCpalsttoledo
Sergeant Lefroy, and Mr. O'Brien,Di a perilous thing for a Roman Catholic
against several of its
when they r.recollected the
..e.lrrus' Bill and the —to remonstrate
g the police-101Ni they recol- lie communicated with Lord Ileytesbury, and it ervaaussLs:
iseCpytedsytslr disarntsia;T. of the repeal magistracy—when timated to him, that changes were to be made in the
they recollected all these things, they could net be sur-
I Bill. The Right lion. Gentleman, the Secretary of
great is ant of confidence in the State for the Home Department, had not yet spoken in
prised that there was a
legislation of the Right Hon. Baronet.--(Hrar, hear) this debate, and perhaps he would say is hat changes
But still it. might said, that a great chapge was about. were to be wade. There was another mistake made,
to take place with regard to Ireland, and he most sin- j which was this, that the Bill restricted tbleatriguh.ats ofa
(Sorely lao•ped that such would be the case. Ho believed i devising property beyond a certain. time. ri
that the ktight Hon. Baronet for the la-A two years had mistake, because they allowed personal property to be