The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-14 00:00:00

Hear, heat.)—But we are told, my Lords, that to the
attainment of their object there is an obstacle opposed in
the opinions of the people of England. If it be meant to
state, that there exists among the inhabitants of the coun-
try an impression conceived, or I should say more cor-
rectly, received (hear, hear,) from I know not what cause,
that there is a possibility of danger from admitting the
Catholics into power—if this be meant, I consider myself
mound in candour to allow that it is the case; but in mak-
ing this admission, and professing a great respect for this
class of persons, who are most respectable in their own
calling and station, I must at the same time he permitted
to say that the subject is not one on which they can form
a competent judgment. I must confess it seems to me not
extraordinary that they should declare their opinions, and
that these opinions should serve as a guide to your Lord-
ships in all questions falling under their own observation,
and personally interesting to themselves, that they should
address your Lordships on the representatiou being inade-
quate, on the administration of justice being imperfect, on
the pressure of particular taxes, and on any local grievances,
these are questions en which they are most competent to
judge; but I am surprised that we should now be told that
their opinion is to be made great account of, when, being
fully engaged with their own daily occupations, they declare
themselves capable of judging of the laws and statutes which
extend to the most important and intricate subjects which
influence the whole Constitution, and which, in their re-
sults, effect the religious freedom and the civil policy of the
empire. Theit opinions, my Lords, is now to be held a tri-
bunal from which there is no appeal.—( Hear. )—And your
Lordships are invited to lay aside your own unbiassed judg-
tnent, to reject the petitions of the most learned and intelli-
gent part of the community, who are, without exception, in
favour of these measures; and who are best qualified, by
their studies, observations, and experience, to form a cm--
met judgment on the subject. But though the Govern-
ment may now appear to be suspected by the people, it is
my opinion that whenever the measure shall have passed
through this House, and shall have become the law—l
bare no doubt the good sense of the people of England,
with which, as a body, they are practically endowed—when
they shall perceive the real effects of the liberal measures,
and find out that far other consequences result from them
than what they expect ; the spectres which now flit before
their eyes will shrink into their true dimensions anti sub-
stance , and they will find reason to rejoice in the act of
the Legislature, and be ready to give it their hearty con-
Ettrrence. When it is said, my Lords, that the majority
of the country is opposed to the measure, I must observe,
that the classes most competent to form en opinion have
expressed a decided opinion in favour of the measure re-
commended by his Majesty's Government. This opinion
was not the less deserving of their Lordships' attention
because it was one formed by slow degrees. In the course
of thirty years that the question has beer discussed and con-
sidered, it has been regularly and continually progressive,
and has increased in favour with all classes of the
people. If in the course of that time the impressions of
persons most interested from situation, and called on by
their office to consider the question, have all gradually be-
come liberal—if we have seen, my Lords, those who en-
tered Parliament prejudiced against the measure, and on
being called on to form a distinct opinion, from a serious
consideration of the effects of the present state of the law—
if we have seen these persons gradually forming an opinion
directly adverse to their past impressions—if we have seen
my Lords, public men of great liberality sent to govern
Ireland, and from the duties of their office hest acquainted
with its situation—if we have seen them go to that coun-
try adverse to the measure, and when there, greatly to their
honour— (Hear, hear)—declare that nothing but conces-
sion could enable the Government to preserve tranquillity,
must we not all, my Lords, be convinced that the ques-
tion has made great progress, and that the opinion favour-
able to concession is the one most deserving approbation ?
And these changes have been made under circumstances
when there was no temptation of emolument to induce the
change ; when all those persons would, had they been in-
fluenced by vulgar ambition, have the strongest motive to
remain attached to their opinions, but who have greatly
enhanced the reputation of the public men of this country,
by following the example, and embracing the opinions of
those who long ago gave up office and emolument to main-
tain their opinion on this question, and among whom were
to be found some of the greatest statesmen and orators that
ever adorned this country. But while these successive
conversions have been going on, there has not been, I be-
lieve, my Lords, one person converted to the other side.
(Hear, hear.) Is there one man, I ask, whose name is of
any value, who is looked up to with respect by ahe public,
who, having been in office during any time these thirty
years, in having known Ireland, has felt it his duty to
give up his liberal opinion, and declare that it is neces-
sary to have recourse to coercion ? (Hear, hear.) If
there is net one man of talents who has left ale liberal
side, is it not true, is it not good to know, that all the
able and considerable persons of the kingdom lend the mea-
sures about to be proposed to this House their support, and
who, seeing the real danger of our present situation, do not
suffer themselves to he led away by the apprehension of
another danger, to oppose the measure which the Noble '
Duke has brought forward on Lis own responsibility, as
necessary to maintain the tranquillity and obedience of the
people ? This measure is supported by the principal mem-
bers of the most learned profession of the world—the de-
dared opinion of the liar of England is in its favour ; such
also is the decided opinion of the Bar of Ireland ; and '
though the opinion of the Bar of Scotland has not yet bees
declared, I have no doubt that it will also be on the
same side ; it is supported by the Merchants and
Bankers of Liverpool—the second city of this country.
Your Lordships will soon learn also, from a peti-
tion
I am about to present, that such is the opinion
of the merchants and most respectable people of the
city of Glasgow—the second city of Scotland ; and it
is else the opinion of the merchants and bankers of Dublin,
and even of those persons amongst them, who, being de-
scended from the refugees wile went to Ireland after the
repeal of the Edict of Nantes, might be supposed, on ac-
count of their descent, to have strong prejudices on this
subject. It is most certainly the opinion of the most in-
telligent classes of the community, that this question
should be settled by means of reasonable concession to the
Catholics. But I may be told that this is not the opinion
of the great mass of the nation. I fully admit that the
opinions of even the least informed classes of the commu-
nity, as expressed in their petitions, are entitled to the
most respectful attention of your Lordships ; but still, my
Lords, when the petitions come from those who are noto-
riously incapable of forming just conclusions on the subject
to which the petitions refer, your Lordships will consider
not so much the numbers by whom such petitions may be
signed, as the real interests of the nation. That at least
one intelligent body has declared against the settlement of
the question by means of concession, is a fact which I la-
ment. Oxford has declared against concession ; but, on
the other hand, Cambridge has declared in favour of the
removal of Catholic disabilities, by rejecting a petition
which had for its object resistance to all concessions to the
Catholics, and the events in that University afforded re-
markable indications of the progress of liberal opinions
which had overcome the prejudices of a similarity of situa-
tion to that of Oxford. I had formed my opinion upon
this subject early in life, and I thought it my duty to
support a proposition brought forward by two Noble Lords
for settling this question, by conciliation and concession to
the Catholics. In consequence of this I lost the confidence
of the University of Cambridge, which I had twice before
enjoyed. But there is one distinguished Society there which,
even at that early period, marked its continuing of con-
fidence. Since that time 20 years have elapsed, and dur-
ing a period of three years, no petition at all on this sub-
ject was presented from Cambridge. Lately, a petition
against concession to the Catholics was brought forward in
the University ; but that petition was thrown out by a
great majority, even in the first stage of its progress; and
if it had come into the Senate, it would have been thrown
out by a still greater majority. Let me not, then, be told
that the learned men of this country are adverse to the
settlement of this question by concession. As to the
mode in which, and the conditions under which, what is
called Emancipation ought to be granted, I will, with your
Lordships' permission, say a few words. When I was ap-
plied to by the Catholics five years ago to present their pe-
tion, in which they prayed for unqualified and uncondi-
tional emancipation, I informed them that I should be
most happy if the question were settled on the principle
of concession and conciliation. But lat the same time
stated, that when I presented their petition, I considered
my duty to them discharged, and I desired that it should
be distinctly understood, that I reserved to myself the full
and free right to judge as to the time when, and the mode
in which the measure of concession ought to he brought,
and under what conditions it ought to be carried into ef-
fect. I never thought that the measure ought to be pro.
posed without some conditions calculated to allay the
alarms of those who might honestly and sincerely have
entertained apprehensions : and I now say, that to the
conditions under which the measure is now proposed, I
see no objection whatever.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—
There is another measure, accompanying the great measure
of conciliation, which must be considered on its own merits
—I mean the measure for the disfranchisement of the
forty-shilling freeholders. lam one of those who think
that this latter measure is entitled to the consideration of
Parliament, only on grounds applicable to itself exclusively,
and that the Bill for settling the great question of Catholic
Emancipation ought not to be framed in such a way as to
take away with one hand what it gives with the other.