The Sun.
London, England, 1820-08-30 00:00:00

CROSS-EXAMINATION.

The Witness (Barbara Grant: or Kress) was
then called in, and Mr. BaouonAm continued her
cross-examination, as follows
Q. Where do you live now?—A. In a private house.
Where is it ?—1 do not know.
• How far from here do you live ?—I do not know, I came in
a coach.
On which side of the River ?—She came over a bridge.
Who lives in the house with you ?—Only the people of the
house and my brother.
Has he ever given you any money ?—No.
Did your brother never promise you money at any time ?-
111 v brother could not promise me money.
Why could he not; do you mean he had no money ?—Only
that which he had when he left home.
What trade is he?—One who makes pots.
Several Peers exclaimed, a potter.
Is hr a workman or a master ?—A master.
What is your father ?-111y father is serjeant to the army;
he is dead.
Did no person give you any money before you came here ?
No.

Did nobody promise you any money afterwards.?—No.
Did nobody promise to give vou money after you should
come from Carlsru he to England ?—No.
Will you say upon your oath that no person promised you
any advantage when you came to England I—Nobody bas
promised we any thing, but that I should have compensation
for leaving my occupation.
Some doubt arose as to the accuracy of the interpetrakion
to the last question it was repeated, and answered iu the
same manner.
1-low much compensation were you to have ?—I cannot

say.
Who told you.that you should receive any compensation 1..
Our Minister.
What did you say to the Minister said to hint that I
ought to be compensated, that I should lose my place.
What Minister is he I—Monsieur de Von Dergstedt.

Whose Minister is he?--I do nut know.
Is he not Minister of the Duke of Baden ?—I du not
know whether he is for the home business or for the business
away.
It was determined that she meant fur the Home and Foreio
you Departments.not know be is the Date of Baden's Minister ?
po
I do not
happen to see him ?—They called me.
Did hr, i
d know.i
sed you
tiu
for you? —Yrs. [Turn over.)
j

Did mot he come to thiTosun or the inn witty* you lived ?
--NOtsld. Volt Bergstedt.
Did not Baron Von Bergstodt some to ste the roam where
7ots:lvore. ?—I did nut see him.
Do.you not know to was there ?—No.
Did/on see, after the Princess left the inn, any other Gen-
tlemen come to the inn ?—1 saw nobody but Baron Von
grimm, who lodged in the inn.
How long did Baron Von Grimm lodge in the inn before
the Princess ?—1 cannot say, I paid no attention•to this.
, What cart did Baron Von Grimm lie in?--He lived•in
No. 13-14; before the Princess arrived in N0.:12 and 13.
Did he not give up No. 1% to accommodate the Princess ?
—Fes.
Was there any body with him when he came to look at the
rooms.?—Yea, his brother and another Gentleman.
Who was.t he other?-1 do mit know.
Was he n German or an Englislitnan ?—1 do nut know; I
never heard him speak.
What'. Von Grimm ?--As I could hear, be is the Anibal-
-1::tilor of Wirteentotricta.
Who is his brother ?—I cannot tell that.
Now, how often had you seen the •Princess before the day
von sav volt went to the room, and law her with Bergatui?-;
I had se en her very little; I had.too much occupation.
Did !rim not wait upon her at breakfast ?—Nevert'-
ttift ern never see her at breakfast?--Once I saw her.
Was that alter the time you saw her with Berganti ?—Tes;
afterwards.
Ito you mean that you saw the Princess at • breakfast in the
morning after the time vim hail seen her in the evening
?
; afterwards. They had spilt something ; I was desired to
clear av`i-ay the slot,.
Where did the Princess on that clay. or the evenimr,
of which you saw tier in a room with Bergarai ?—I do nut
Did she dine in the inn?—'": I have not seen it.
Did they ever dine in your house at all ?—I have never seen

them.
Will von swear that they dined in the inn?--I cannot
sw.•ar that, beei►4ct. I hays never seen them dine there ?
Will you swear that the Princess and Bergami slid not dine
/0 room every day while they were at your inn ?-1 cannot
ki..ow where they dined.
Did. you see the Princess and Bergami and suite go toCourt
while you were there ?-1 have seen them twice going in
a carriage; 1 do not know whether to Court.
Have you seen the Grand Duke come to Court to wait upon
her Royal Highness ?-1 hare seen the Grand Duke and seve-
ral other Gentlemen go up to the Princess; I cannot say any
thing about fur what.
To pay their respects ?—Yes, probably to make their
Court.
'Did yon happen to see them while the Princess was there
more than once?—Only once, as I was going down stairs the
Gentlemen were going up stairs.
Where slid her Royal Highness receive the Duke saw
that he went up stairs ; I did go to the top of the stairs.
1)o you mean to represent that the Grand Duke and suite
went to see the Princess at the moment she was coining out of
the room ?—No, I saw that they went down, and again up

stairs.
Will you swear that the Grand Doke did not come that day
to par his respects ?-1 cannot say ; I had occupation ; I paid
no attention.
Who gave yoU the order to go to the room to carry water ?
Ntabody told me, it was my business, I did it every evening.
Was it when you were making the bed that yon saw what
you hare mentioned when you were examined 2—Ye., when
it .was to he made ; I had nothing else to do with the bed.
Had you made any other beds that morning ?—lt was the
fr't I had made when they had left it.
When who hail left it ?—You say that when they had left
it i—dn you mean that .when whoever had slept in it'had left
it ?—Yes.
Do you mean No. Pi ?—tio. 12.
Was any body else in the room when you made the bed i--
Nobody but a servant.
Did he come into the room when you were. making it?

Yes when I was in it he came to assist me in turning up the
mattress.
Who was this servant?--T cannot tell.
Was there more than one set-cane—There were two

have not observed them closely; I know not to whom they
belonged.
Did you ever see them before ?—Never ; only when the
Princess was there walking about.
Have you ever seen them since ?—No, not since she left.
Did you ever see them any other time in that room except
when you were making the bed on that day ?—I never came
into the room but to make the bed.
Did yon ever see them before, when you were making the
bud ?—Now and then.
Did they ever before assist you in making the bed, except
on that day ?—Now and then, if they came into the room.
Have you any doubts that they were the servants in the
suite of the PI ineess ?—I suppose so_ they came with her.

Did they not go away with her ?—Yes ; all went away with
her.
Was there one Yager with her do not know.
When you had a conversation with Von Bergstedt, about
a compensation for coming here, what did you say ?—I told
his Excellency " Must Igo ?—for if 1 do not must, I cannot
leave liere, as I am a married woman, and hare business to
attend to."
What did Von Berestedt say in answer?—He s2tid,

would not go, I should be forced. I said, '° well then I must
go."and god may settle every thing here as he pleases."
rA short interruption was here occasioned by the sudden
indisposition of a Noble Peer, Lord Hardwielce. The atten-
tion of the whole House was directed towards his Lordship,
and.there was a general call for water. His Lordship was
' condocted into Sir Thomas Tyrwhitt's room, where, we are
happy to say, he soon recovered sufficiently to resume his
scat]
The witness also appeared mulch agitated ; a chair was pro-
cured for her, and a glass of water handed to her. The cross-
examination was after a short time resumed.
Vi:' hen you asked for a compensation, what did the Baron
say ?—I-le could not give me any thing, he said. I must
leave it to the Gentlemen, and I should be recompensed.
Aid he net say you should be compensated also when you
retiurned from England ?—N(,
Had your fatuity the Ormuise of any thing ?—No.
Will you swear that no premise was made to your husband,
or any of your family ?—I can swear that no promise was

made.
Whether was the 16 or 18 ducats you got for going to
Hanover a compensation or an indemnity ?—I cannot say; it
was for my going from my place to ,Hanover
What do you consider the ducats were for that the Gentle-
man,gave for seeing you in the morning ? —He gave them to
rue for my trouble. •
How long did yon remain with this ducat Gentleman ?
Not long the first time; the servant chewed me in.
How long the second time ?—Not long at all.
Was the Gentleman's name Mandeville, or Mandevil; or
what was his name, any thing of that sort ?—I cannot say.
What do you generally get as chambermaid, when persons
sleep at your int, ?—I cannot say ; it comes to a common
purse, and'is shared.
How much is your share for half a year ?—lt is divided every
quarter.
How much every quarter then ?—Sometimes 18, 20, or 30,
accopling to the number.
Eighteen. twenty, or thirty what ?—Florins.
Da you know a place called the Glass-house near the Gate
of Carlsrnhe ?—Yes.
Is there not a place of that name which serves for a plea-
sure,garden ?—Yes.
Have you ever been there ?—I have walked there with my
husband for pleasure.
Ever without yOur- husband.—Yes, before he was my
husband.
Ewer with any body else, ur alone ?—With my husband, ser-
vaNtt, and maids.
Have you ever walked there alone, or without your bus-
ban,l?-•--Never with any body else.
Never alone ?—Never; before I knew my husband, I went
there with my brother and sister.
By day or night?—By day.
Newer by night ?—Never.
Mr. Beonutiam (not to the witness) we shall soon see that
Abort what time were you in the habit of making the beds
at Carlsrnhe ?-3ust when Gentlemen rose and came out.
Obi you always go into the room as soon as the Gentlemen
came out ?—Sometimes yes and sometimes no.
After yon bad seen the person you took for the Princess
didkyou not go to see whether the Countess of Oldi was in her
roont?—l did not go for that purpose, I just carried the
water there.
Will you 'swear that it was not in part to see if the Coun-
tess of 01,11 was there ?—I cannot say this. I did not go fur
t bat purpose.
Will you swear that you never told any person that you
did go to the room to see if the Countess were there or not ?
I cannot recollect it. I have no thought about it.
Will you swear that voa have never had any conversa-
tion about going into Madame Obli's room that night ?
—I cannot swear that, I never went to the room for that
per wise.
Same difficulty arose in understanding this question. and
Mr. Brougham observed. that if the question put to the wit-
ness by the interpreter was not precisely that which he had
directed,tbat the anssverto such question should be struckout.

Who asked you at Hanover ?—An Ambassador, mho be is

do nut know:.
Who have you spoken to on this subject since you came
o this country ?—Two Geutlemen, hut who they are I do

lot know.
Have you ever spoken to any one else about then► ?—N4,.
Do you know a Major Jones in this country!—No, I know

nobody.
Do those two Gentlemen speak German ?—One of them.
Was he a German, or an Englishman ?-1 don't know.
Besides the house you are now in, have yon lived in any
other house in this conntry
Did you never lodge in any other house ?-1n a hotel only
for a few hours.
What servants besides yourself were there at the inn at
Carlsruhe ?--Two tellers (waiters) and a groom.
Was there any other chambermaid beside yourself ?--
Only one.
How many maids hail the Princess ?—No more than two
and the Countess.

Questions by the I'imts•

A Peer from the Gallery—l would ask whether, when the
courier of the Princess came forward, to order the beds, did
he give any reason for 30 ordering them ?
r. Brougham.—My Lords, we can hare no interest in ob-
ecting to any questions which it may please your Lordships
to put,. hut he would humbly suggest that the informatitiu
here asked for is of an ipse dixit nature, and can never be
looked upon as evidenee.—(The question was withdrawn.)
By the SI4IIIC Peer.—When you saw the stains on the bed,
as you have already stated, had the bed any appearance of
two persons having slept in it ?—Nu ; the cushions or pillows
were one on the top of the other.
The Earl of Limerick.—The witness said, when she went
to make the bed, they had left it ; I wish her to be asked what
she means by saying Meg !--When I made the bed there
was nobody in the room. I have seen nobody when I made
the heti.
Another Peer.—Had the witness any conversation with any
person respecting the observations she had made in Ber-
genii's bed room, particularly as to that occesiou when she
said Bergami was in his bed, and the Princess jumped up ?
I have never made any observation to any body about it.
Lord Hood.—l want to know if you ever said any thing to
any body on the euhject of the stain you observed in the bed ?
—I spoke to nobody about it, except to Mons. Von Spring,
and he asked me about it.
How long was it after the Princess left the inn that you
were asked about it ?—The same day Monsieur Von Spring
asked me,
Asked what ?r-Asked me in his room about it. At
first I was unwilling to tell, but he asked me again, and I told
A Peer in the gallery here observed,:that he thought their
Lordships lost a great deal of what the witness stated in con-
sequence of the interpreter's imperfect knowledge of the Eng-
lish language.
Mr. Brougham.—My Lords, there are two interpreter's
here, both on duty. The interpreter who is at present per-
forming, has been much engaged in translating his own lan-
guage into English, and is among those who has hest acquitted
himself, and is especially well versed in the English language.
Besides, the other interpreter is on the watch, and does fre-
quently interpose.
The LORD CHANC2LLOR stated that there wets two sworn
interpreters on duty at the Bar, one for each side, with whom
the part of objecting to the interpretation properly rested,
according to their Lordships' regulation'.
Lord LeurieRDALE rose to ask a question of the witness.
His Lordship observed with great warmth that since the com-
mencement of these proceedings he had not asked one single
question to elicit au answer regarding any fact of which he
had obtained a knowledge in the Secret Committee. This he
declared upon his hanour ; and he stated this more especially
with a view to represS any misrepresentations of • his conduct,
as scandalous misrepresentations were more frequent at this
moment than he had ever before known them. The question
he had to put was, whether, when the witness took the break-
fast into the room where the Princess and Bet gami were, she
observed any one else in the room ?—They were all in the
room,Gentlemen and Ladies.
Can she state who those Gentlemen and Ladies were ?
The Countess was there, and there were other Gentlemen
with her.
She has stated that, as a part.of her duty, she carried water
into No. 12, did she continue to do so after she had seen the
incest there ?—No, she found it shut after that, and she put
the water down before the dour.
Did she generally find the door shut or open after that
night, when she went to carry water?—Many times shut, and
many times open.
Does she mean that the dour was merely closed, or ac-
tually locked ?—She attempted several times to go in, but
could not.
Who took the water generally to the Princess's room?—
The Maids.
Mr. Brougham having obtained permission, asked the fol-
lowing questions through the medium of the Court :
IVhat time of day did you generally carry water to the bed-
rooms ?—lt was never in the day-time, only in the evening,
or when it was asked for in the morning.
How often did you find the door locked ?
It was intimated that this question had been already an-
swered.
Mr. Brougham observed, that the Interpreters differed as
to the meaning of the witness, and he could not see what
objection their Lordships could have to its being put over

again.
A. She could not exactly say, but many times.
The examination of this witness was now concluded for
the present, and she was conducted from the bar out of the
House.