The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-29 00:00:00

last.
had been cleared up. Above all, he thought it was the
a'}' of the Hou-e to support the authority of its Committees.
L After a few wealth from Mr. REDINUTON, which were
'4ludthle in the gallery,
1)84' PEEI7. had more than once said how much he die-
theee appeals tO the House of Commons from the Corn-
„,,,'tteea. He thought the Committees should decide all these
_aestion, themselves. The appeal, however, had been made,
;,1(1 it was the duty of Members to decide what course it would
7,,,fittiug for them to pursue. It was a most important duty,
"'u was one entirely of a judicial nature. It should be rernern-
?sreet that this was a question affecting the liberty of the sub-
tt; it affected the liberty of the person who was brought up
their bar; and therefore every other consideration except
use of a purely judicial nature ought to be excluded.—( Cheers. )
,14 the first place, he assumed that the Speaker's warrant
ts. valid. The Committee had acted upere it as
"egrl document, and he was therefore bound to consider it
l•
egal. Such being the case, they were hound to consider
conrse the ought to rsue. Ihe Speaker had issued
Summons, any d the Committee had reported that he had
e'sohe. ed teat summons. He supposed that the Committee
nut' to imply. that the witness had wilfully disobeyed the
?Peaker's summons for the purpose of defeating the ends of
:tatice. He (Sir R. Peel) eeuld not be supposed to know
dlat had passed before the Committee, but the witness had
been examined at the bar, and had given his own account of
,!le transaction. He (Sir R. Peel) was at liberty to refer to
the evidence which had been given at the bar, and he must
laY that the evidence given by the witness at the bar was un-
,ltisfactory.—(Loud cheers.) The witness had the papers for
Teee or four months in his possession, much about the time
LUe present Session was about to commence ; and when it
"3 likely a petition, against the election would be
presented.—(Hear, hear.) At that period the witness
ht. those documents to another party, the Chairman of the
n Committee. The impression which the witness made
:Pon his (Sir R. Peel's) mind was that Captain Ward did not
teat
admit having received the papers. It appeared to him
4t there there some grounds for doubt in the matter, and on
Ithat account he thought it inexpedient to release him altoge-
ther. It was advisable that there should be an opportunity
t iaell of considering the question. Unless the detention of
the witness could be sustained in point of law a habeas
corpus would be moved for, and the prisoner would be dis-
charged without any remonstrance on their part. From the
e
41lure of the testimouy given at the bar, and the doubt
'Pittainieg respecting the
totedansaction, he could not re-
tencile it to himself ischarge the prisoner. He
thought that they were bound to support the Committee.
They compelled members of it to discharge an obnoxious duty,
'tut(' they ought, therefore, to support them in the discharge of
hat duty. On that ground he should give his vote for con-
tinuing the witness in the custody of the Sergeant-at-Arms.
Mr, O'CONNELL would be far from saying anything
lihieh would appear like presumption on his part, but he cer-
ia'uly must say, that he differed from the opinion given upon
the matter by the Learned Solicitor-General. Notwithstand-
-log the authority .of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he
01r. O'Connell) could not bring himself to proclaim for one
imoment that the warrant was not a perfectly legal one.
, he present was really a monstrous case, and ought not to be
'tittered away. The moment the summons reached the wit-
k'ss, he was bound to take care of the papers lying in his
custody, for the purpose of producing them.
After a few words in explanation, from Mr. C. BULLER,
Which were quite inaudible,
Mr. CHRISTOPHER said that all proceedings with re-
!art! to election petitions, ought to be taken entirely away
'rem this House.— ( Hear, hear.) They had seen enough that
!'elting to prove that he was right in thinking so. He did
uvot regret that these proceedings had taken place, for he
that very soon, whatever might be the opinion of this
fellow-subjects
the people of England would no longer suffer their
'now-subjects to be committed to Newgate, or kept in the
,tistody of any person whatever, when under similar circum-
awenies there was no Court of Justice in the country who
venture to do it.—( Hear, hear, and " divide.")
, Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House di-
'uleel, when there appeared—
For the adjournment
Against it
Majority
On our return to the gallery we found,
, Mr. THESIGER addressing the House. He wished to ex-
plain the grounds upon which he voted in the majority. He
considered that a motion for an adjournment would have the
effect of discharging the prisoner. He should vote for a direct
htotion for the discharge of the prisoner. He asked any Ho-
nourable Gentleman whether, if they entertained a doubt of
the validity of this warrant, whether they could avail them-
helves anything by an adjournment? With respect to the pri-
kmer's being detained in custody, he could tell the House that
they were not a responsible body. If they inflicted an injury
'll.l the man, he had no redress. If he had keen committed by
au illegal wrrant from a Magistrate, he could have an action
fie damages_; but under a decree of that House he had no
t,ttiedy. Therefor& feeling as he (Mr. Thesiger) did, he
'heal certainly not vote for the prisoner being detained in
eustody.
M• r. WARD said, the Honourable and Learned Gen-
ueman had cleared up a great doubt, which had
',listed during that debate. From what the Hon. and Learned
vehtleman had stated, the House was in a most extraordinary
kL anomalous position, which applied to all former election
trdings. The House had committed several persons be-
and this question had been reserved for the Southampton
~se's. and they now attempted to throw a shield over this wit-
ness. who, he must say, had said enough to make him appear
`u a very suspicious position.—(Cries of " No, no.") If this
Ulan had been the most consummate trickster in the world,
most hardened and determined trickster, he could not have
acted in a better manner than on the present occasion, and he
!teal done the best hecould to defeat the object of any inquiry.
leelieving that this witness had distinctly refused the production
papers which the Speaker's warrant required, ho ( Mr.
Ward) should give his vote for detaining him in, the eustody
of the Sergeant-at-Arms until those papers were produced,
laving it to the Solicitor-General to follow out in any way he
"ose theuestion as. to legality which had been raised. The
Laded Solitor-General had referred to cheers which had
"°wed from the Opposition benches certain answers which
witness had given. He (Mr. Ward) must remind him thatthat
lied taken place before.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER said that what had fallen from the
Hein. Member for Sheffield, had only confirmed him in the
°Pisrion he had before expressed. He was convinced from the
1144 in which the former and the present inquiries were
tarrie,l on, that before the termination of the Session, they
It'ould have the same scenes enacted night after night.—
(llear, hear.) He was convinced that it was neceesary to
try these cases before some tribunal which would be considered
feimpetent, and possess the confidence of the public.—(Hear.
hear,) He was desirous to maintain the privileges of the
!louse, but he would never give a vote to oppress one of his
countrymen.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.)
Sir GEORGE GREY wished to observe, in reply to what
'tad fallen from the Learned Solicitor-General, that the war-
'Etat, although issued on the 10th of September, was issued
Renerally for the witness's attendance before the Committee,
without reference to the time when the Committee might sit.
'-onsidering the doubt which had been expressed en the sub-
Pet, he thought a short Bill should be introduced to define
the nature of the Speaker's summons.
Sir J. TYRRELL said, in his opinion there were grave
'gel doubts on the point, and he was surprised at the conduct
41 teose who had been such great sticklers for the liberty of
the subject. He was surprised to see such conduct connived
4t by the Hon. Member for Sheffield, the Hon. Member for
„
k'oeis, and the Hon. Member for Finsbury.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL said he thought there was a great die-
tile:tiers between the advocacy of bribery and the utterance of
that species of deception which would make it impossible.-
I.lear, hear.) Did the Hon. Member mean to throw any
witpn this summons? It was not upon that ground that
the ness had resisted it at all, but having been employed a 3
",4 agent to expend 3,000/.—(No, no.) He stated at the bar
that 3,000/. had passed through his hands in that cheque-
, buak.—(Hear, hear.) Now, why had they not that cheque-
-1 ? Were Gentlemen to be deluded with the idea that this
!us a bona fide case of a man who had forgot whether he had
ueen summoned or not ? If it had been a nisi prius case he
(Mr, O'Connell) would have asked him when did he forget
't? Now, what aid the witness do with respect to the docu-
kents? Why, he kept them, from three to four months, he
!lid not give them to any person he could name ; he said that it
was some person that was at some time in his employ, but whe-
ther he was so now he could not tell. Those document'
showed the, expenditure of 3,000/., yet they were kept out of
• and then Gentlemen talked of the liberty of the subject.
"11( Hear hear.) Why, wits it not a notorious fact that bribery
ad taken place to a great extent, and if parties were not
punished it would be carried on with impunity. He believed.
that the present case was one of the most monstrous that
ilsud evi r come before the House, and it proved
Z., unfit that House was to investigate such questions. He
o•
ught the present system worse than the last ; the first ques-
elOu rMni asked was, who was the Chairman, and the result of
▪ eennmittee was always
.predicted from that circumstance.
°oll a state of things ev,,s most melancholy. Some Hon.
`-'entleman 'of influence ought to bring in a Bill to have a
Ittlaried Judge—( Hear, hear)—appointed to "preside over
Cheese Committees, where, at times, some of the nicest points of
;aw were raised. He trusted this suggestion would not beL
i'lrown out in vain, but that some one at either side of the
ouse would bring in a Bill for that purpose, so that it might
,"'" Sin longer a matter of reproach to the House that Hon.
r '3entlemen could not be trusted on their oaths. Nothing could
'e ineiv lik ily to countenance immorality in the public at large
'Than the prevalence of suchetbelief.
Mr. S. WORTLEY wished to suggest that the Right Hon.
lenticular, was wandering wide from the question, though he
(Mr. \V'.) agreed in what had been expressed by him on the
littdeject. But the question actually before the House was, whe-
therthey were justified in retaining the person called to the
ZIP' in custody, in consequence of his having disobeyed the
"Jecept. contained in the warrant issued by the Speaker, in
`ue case of the Southampton Election Committee. Ho must,
t, the -same time, say that, if ever there was a tribunal be-
'Ore which a point of law could be discussed satisfactorily, it
Wits the House of Commons. He apprehended that, in the
.Plesent case, they stood in the position of a court of justice ;
tun 'he Speaker's warrant having been called in question, the
''Peai;er, as the proper officer of the House in the matter,
• took the proper steps to enable him to come to a decision,
4,N1 having pronounced that decision, they were justified in
following it up.
Mr. C. BULLER thought that the House had nothing to
" in the present case but follow up the action of the Corn-
kittee in committing the ,witness to custody. Such was
the intention of the statute respecting Election Committees.
The Hon. and Learned Member here read the portion of
the Act applicable to the case, and then went on to say—
;;Zuw the Chairman. of the Committee, by the direction of
Ze Committee, hid delivered this man into custody ; he had
,`,ut"tt " come before the House and reported what had taken
ee • and it appeared to him (Mr. C. Buller) that the course
e_ P
she' House to pursue was to receive the Report of the
Chairman, to confirm his authority, and continue the impri-
'hUment until the evidence should have been given.
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON said, he was at a loss to under.
stand why, if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman were right,
tile Committee were called upon to report to the House at all.
"( Hear, hear.) Either the warrant was valid, or it was ie-
.'ultd. If it were valid, the man was bound to produce what
fax required, arid, in case of refusal, the Committee were
'telt in committing him ; but if it were invalid, in what
!osition would the matter stand ? Why, if they continued the
",prisouinent of this man until to-morrow, in all probability a
'tit of habeas corpus would then be issued.
Mr, ROEBUCK said, it appeared to him to be a great
mistake to suppoee, that when the House had once de-
termined to commit a person for contempt, the Queen's Bench
‘;'oeld interpose its authority by issuing a writ for his release.
,i'he Queen's Bench would never consider on what ground an
Zelividual had been committed, if the tribunal itself were legal.
now- desirous as he was to bow to the authority of the Hon.
and I,,,,imed Attorney-General, lie would suumit to him this
• sqepose a witness had been hound over to appear, arid the
.11'€. was reepited. The form of that House was to respite the
""e generelle's
Mr. TIiESIA3 ER—The recognizanees would he respited.
s Mr. TLOEBUCK said the ordinary form of the House was
r'e'spite the case whether or not, sand to adjourn the conside•
ration of the case for a certain time. He would put it to the
lion, and Learned Gentleman opposite whether, when a case
" this sort was adjourned, they also adjourned, or, in legal
titrase, respited any summons which might have been issued.
lhe warrant being served it was sufficient warning to the in-
dividual that he was to come before the Committee with certain
documents. He had no excuse on the ground of morality.—
' tlear, hear.) And he should like to know what excuse he had
' point of law—a poled they never heard of till the present
-Low%