The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-20 00:00:00

GROUP L.

PORTSMOUTH ATMOSPHERIC LINE.

The Committee for this group resumed at twelve this morning,
Mr. E. B. Denison, in the chair.
Mr. R. Stephenson, the eminent engineer, was called by Mr.Cocx-
awls , and stated that he was engineer of the Chester and Holyhead
line. Had been called upon by the Directors about 15 months ago
to make a report respecting the expediency of laying it down as an
atmospheric line, and in consequence of that circumstance his at-
tention had been turned to the principle of atmospheric traction.

over about five miles of road; but he had found it very expensive.
He had taken his estimates of cost from Mr. Cubitt's evidence, and
coincided with him in the opinion that 67,0001. would be sufficient
for the stationary engines. But in the estimate for the vacuum
tube he differed, as he thought that it ought to be 4,8001.
instead of 4,5001. He based a calculation of 5001. per mile
for water to supply the stationary engines, for they ex-
pended 6,0001. for the engine at Blackwall, and 3,0001.
for the wells at Camden-town. He did not, however, know what
facilities there existed for the supply of the water on the proposed
line. The engine at Camden town was constructed by the Messrs.
Maudslay, and worked expansively, but not so much as it might do,
and he could not say whether it was more expansive than the
engine at Dalkey ; but he thought that not a single instance could
be adduced of a stationary engine being worked for so little as
11r. Samuda had stated, and he believed that the extra
expense on the atmospheric line would be above 9,0001.
He was not aware that, exclusive of the electric telegraphic,
the points and crossings and the valve, the two lines were about
equal,but such might be the case. He did not think that it would
be fair to take the number of trains into consideration, because the
weights carried by the locomotive trains were so much greater as to
render them in effect on a par with the greater number of trains
on the atmospheric line.
To the inquiries of Mr. OSWALD, Mr. Stephenson stated
that there was no opportunity of judging of the power of
stopping en the Dalkey line, for after the train left the tube
it went up a plane of 1 in 50, so that in fact it was going
up hill, but in his experiments they had failed in obtaining any great
facility in stopping. In starting he certainly thought the atmos-
pheric principle had something of an advantage.
To the re examination of Mr. M. Small the witness stated that,
in his estimation of working expenses, he had taken the traffic on
both lines as equal. With respect to the opinion expressed by
the promoters of the Dalkey line, he could say that he had fully
considered the reasons alleged, and was quite decided in his
opinions, especially as he was confirmed by the formula of Mr.
Hawkesley and the experiments of Mr. Samuda, which had been
published since his own. The connecting tube at Dalkey
was a solid cast-iron pipe, and was covered with tar, so
that there was every care taken to prevent leakage,
and he believed that a large quantity of the leakage was to be
ascribed to the pump. The same cause would equally operate
whether the pipe were long or short, and the leakage was pretty
uniform throughout the whole length of the line With respect to
the number of trains, they must of necessity be restricted to the
number of crossing places ; but 12 or 15 trains a day might be
worked with tolerable facility. That, however, depended upon
the equability with which the trains worked, and he thought it
would be practically impossible to secure perfect equability through.
out. The objections to the atmospheric line were chiefly to the
single line, for that was subject to all those overshootings
and collisions of which he had spoken. In stating that the
peculiar advantage of the atmospheric principle lay in the power of
overcoming steep gradients, he meant to assert that credit was
due to the rope which drew, as well as to the air which propelled
the train. He had founded his statements on Mr. Samuda's
tables, as well as his own, in fact, on both sets of tables.
Mr. Locke, the eminent engineer, stated that he had paid con-
siderable attention to the atmospheric principle, and had read
most that had been written on the subject, though he had not
been to Dalkey. He had read Mr. Stephenson's report,
and perfectly agreed with his conclusions. He had
paid attention to the gradients on the direct line, and
in the event of the atmospheric principle proving a failure, it might
be converted into a locomotive line, but it would be a very bad one,
as the gradients on one half of the line varied from 1 in 80 to 1 in
100. The increase of the length of the tube would have the effect
of decreasing the mean velocity, as the leakage would be greater,
and the friction greater, and the vis inertise of the atmosphere
would be more difficult to overcome. The velocity of the motion
of the air in the tube was greater the nearer the engine was ap-
proached, and the further the recession was towards the piston
the less; and the rushing of the air from the neighbour-
hood of the piston towards the other end of the
pipe occasioned a friction of the particles of the air among them-
selves, and thus retarded the piston and, consequently, the train.
He did not think chat a single atmospheric line could at all afford
the same accommodation as a double loco-notive line. The expanse
of the Chichester Railway for a double line, taking the main line
and excluding contingencies, was 17,4151. a mile. On the at-
mospheric single the expense would be 16,6501. a mile ; but if the
latter was a double line, it would cost more than 20,0001 a mile.
The atmospheric tubes would cost 270,0001. ; twenty
engines at 5,0001.-100,000/.—and four crossing en-
gines, 20,0001., and other engines as much more. This
made the whole cost of the way 420,000/. But from this,
there was to be deducted the cost of 30 locomotive engines, at
a rate of 1,7501. each, making a total of 52,0001. There was also
20,0001. for sheds and repairing, and 27,0001. for the other charges,
making altogether 100,0001., which, deducted from the gross sum,
gave 320,0001. for the establishment of the atmospheric power.
The interest of this would be 16,0001. a year. Now, the whole
expense for haulage on the Guildford and Chichester line would be
15,744/., so that the whole expense of the latter would
be less than the mere interest for the establishment of
the atmospheric power. With respect to the passage of trains, he
found from experience that there were certain hours of the day
which the public preferred, and at which thetrains must necessarily
be large. There was also a great adaptability to the locomotive
principle to supply the sudden and unexpected traffic and to answer
all its variety. He thought that the traffic of the Epsom line would
be as much as that railway could carry, and when the other traffic
came upon it he believed that they would have great difficulty in
meeting it, and at the time of Epsom races, it would be impossible to
convey it, especially when the North Kent traffic came en the
line at Sydenham. With respect to the crossings, he believed the
danger on the atmospheric line would be decidedly greater than on
the locomotive line, particularly as the trains come into the stations
at the top of their speed. They could certainly cut off the tube,
but great precision would be required; and they must either let
off the velocity, or the velocity would involve a certain degree of
danger. With regard to haulage, there were 37 tons of coals
consumed at Dalkey daily, which was equal to 411 horses ;
and applying that to 150 horse power, he found that in-
stead of being 5 7-10 d. it was 7 5.10 d. With respect
to the men at the station he had doubled them, for he was confi-
fident that for the mail trains they would be necessary. The
whole expense of the haulage would by these means be increased
from 71d. to Is. a mile per train. On the Dalkey Railway the
cost of haulage amounts to Is. a mile, where the trains were
lighter than they proposed to have the trains on this line. The
whole expense actually incurred on the Dalkey Railway was
1,4801., and, giving the atmospheric railway every advantage, he
found that the expense of haulage would be Is. a mile. On loco-
motive lines the expenses of haulage was from I Id. to 111 d. per
mile, and in this all the great lines agreed. Taking the estimate
as in tons, the cost would be three times in favour of the locomo-
tive principle, from the greater weight they could carry by one
train.
The Committee here adjourned.

He had therefore gone over and made experimeuts on the Dublin
line, and had not only made experiments himself, but had com-
missioned two other gentlemen to continue them, and had elimi-
nated anomalies which induced him to make a report
that the adoption of the atmospheric principle on the
Chester and Holyhead line would be injudicious. On small
railways of five or six miles in length without stations, that prin-
ciple might do very well ; but to trunk lines it would be totally in-
applicable. In his experiment' on thesDalkey line the speed with
trains of 30 tons each never exceeded 30 miles an hour; while on
locomotive trains the speed was almost always more than 30 miles
an hour, and was often more than 41) miles an hour with trains of
40 to 50 tons each. The first effect of the working of the engine
was to reduce the density in the pipe, and consequently gave room
for the admission of the denser atmosphere. It was, of course, a
principle in pneumatics, that just in proportion as the point was re-
moved from the en:,cine would b., the slownsss of tha reduction of
the density ; so that that part of the pipe which wa, furthest from
the engine would he the slowest exhausted, and as the train pro-
gressed, the rarified air in the tube wound oe gradually driven up
towards the further end, and that combiaing with the denser at.
mosphere beyond the piston, would tend to reduce the velocity of
the train. This, however, would be just in proportion to the length
of the line, and, as on the Dalkey line, this oaposition, combined
with the leakage, had created • he anomaly of which he had spoken,
soli had impeded the velocity. But just in proportion as the train ap
proached the engine the velocity was increased, and as it advanced
from the engine the velocity was diminished, so that there would
be a loss of power, and on the Oalkey line he believed that they
had attained the maximum, and the consequence would be that as
the pipe was increased in length the velocity would be reduced.
He had made no allowance for momentum; for in the experiments
the effect of it entirely disappeared. From Mr. Hawkesley's for.
mula it appeared the train could not be moved at all after six or
seven miles in length. The loss of power, as indicated by the fall
of the barometer, was 69 per cent. downwards, and on a 30 tons
train it was 57 per cent., the msan power being 43 per cent. He
had since applied Mr. Hawkesley's formula to the experiments, and
had found them almost precisely cur ect. He had before supposed that
the loss of power was owing to the leakage. On the Dalkey line
the leakage was 200 feet per minute per mile, and the Dalkey
engine exhausted 3,000 feet per minute, on a line of six or seven
miles in length. There would he a point at which the Dalkey
engine would not move a train at all. There were three
circumstances which would tend to impair the velocity
of the train—the leakage, which would increase in pro.
portion to the length of the line; the increased den-
sity which resulted trout that increased leakage ; and the in-
creased friction which was a consequence of the increased density—
so that the length of the pipe would act as a direct principle to pro.
duce all these three conditions. The velocity of the train was In
the ratio of the power of the engine to the diameter of the tube ; it
was the square of the two diameters ; so that just as
the pipe was increased the power of the engine must
be increased, so that the increase of the power of
the engines on the Portsmouth atmospheric line from 120 to 150
horse-power, while they had increased the diameter of the tube,
had obtained nothing for them. He believed that no atmospheric
line would be sufficient to answer the purposes of the public on a
great line. The line would be subject to greater irregularities,
for on a line cf sixty miles, with stations every three miles,
thirty stationary engines would be required ; while with
12 mile stations on a locomotive line, only 9 engines would be
required, and there would evidently be less liability from 9 engines
than from 30 engines. The consequence wauld be, that while any
irregularity which occurred on the atmospheric line would be a perma-
nent, or at least acomparatively durable obstacle, that on the locomo-
tive line would be only transient. In addition to this, there was the
advantage for the locomotive line that the power could be increased
in proportion to the weight of the train which the engine had to
convey, while on the atmospheric line the power must be always
stationary. The endeavour to meet the difficulty by more nume-
rous trains would prove a failure, for it is matter of experience
that the public would not be interfered with by such frequent
trains. There was certainly an advantage on the side of
the atmospheric line in saving the weight of the
tender and engine. The weights of these varied from 16 to
25 tons on the narrow gauge. On the broad gauge the
weight of the engine varied from 23 to 33 tons. The engine and
tender which carried the express train to Birmingham weighed 18
tons, and ran at a rate of 40 miles an hour, performing the 112
miles in three hours. In general the weight of the engine and
tender was about one-third of the whole train. There would be
great traffic on the Epsom line during certain seasons
of the year, and Mr. Stephenson believed that the
atmospheric principle could not satisfy the requirements of the
traffic. With respect to the safety, he believed that the crossis.g
places would prove seriously dangerous from the liability to colli-
sion. There was a 100 horse-engine to convey the train down the
plane to Eus,on-square, and for working 14 or 15 trains a day
over one mile of road, and he calculated that the expense was not
increased by the difference of the power to 150 horse power,
and the distance to three miles, as he found that there would be
an expense of 600/. per mile. The cost of the single engine was
1,4911. 15s. 4d. per annum, and assuming Mr. Samuda's estimates
as correct, viz., that a passage of 2,000 trains in the year would
occasion an expense of 331. a mile—putting this to the 9,0001.
per mile which had been allowed for other purposes, there was a
cost of 1,0501. a mile for working expenses alone. On the
South-Western line the cost was 5001. per mile, allowing
1001. for interest. This was the expense of a single line, for a
double line had not been calculated. WAh respect to the asser-
tion that the force of gravity alone would carry the trains down
the inclined ',lanes, he had to say that from his own experience he
knew that trains had been stepped by the attnoctere.
To the inquiry of Mr. H. MILNES, Mr. Stephenson replied that
the resistance of the atmosphere was as the square of the surface to

GROUP P.
THE ABERDARE RAILWAY.

The Committee assembled this morning at the usual hour, and
proceeded with the further consideration of the clauses to be inserted
in the Bill.

Mr. WILLIAMS appeared to request the Committee to allow the
clause which had reference to the passage of the railway through
the lands belonging to Mr. Crasham Bayley might be struck out,
and he proposed to insert a new clause, which should have re.
ference to all the owners of land who were placed in a similar po-
sition as Mr. Bailey with regard to the passage of the railway.
The clause, after some little discussion, was agreed to, and
ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Sir T. PHILLIPS appeared to support the petition of Mr. Powell,
who leased lands from Mr. Bruce Price, and intended shortly to sink
a coal mine in the vicinity of the railway. He wished to have
sufficient accommodation afforded to him for the transmission of
his coals, and for that purpose required the Company either to
bring their railway close to his land, or to make a branch from the
pit, or to allow him the power of making a branch to the railway.
The clause, with amendments, was agreed to.
The remaining portion of the day was occupied entirely with
the passing of clauses connected with the arrangement of tolls, and
the interests of landowners.
The Committee then adjourned.

GROUP SS.
EREWASH VALLEY RAILWAY.
The Committee on this group met shortly after 12 o'clock this
morning, and re-committed the Bill authorising the construction
of the Erewash Valley Railway, for the purpose of agreeing to the
amendments introduced into the preamble.
A clause was inserted in the Bill, giving the promoters power to
make the negatived branches, provided they could obtain the con.
sent of the landholders through which it would pass, and also
giving the Company a right of way over the Erewash Canal.
The remaining clauses were agreed to, and the Chairman having
been directed to report the Bill as amended, the Committee
broke up.

the weight.
To the cross-examination of Mr. TALBOT, Mr. Stephenson re- •
plied that he had heard that the line at Dalkey was wider very
unfavourable circumstances. At Dalkey there was a connecting
pipe running at right angles with the mails pipe, the leakage in
which was 119 feet in a minute, while that in the vacuum tulae
was only 126 feet. But this excess was, in his opinion, attribut-
able as much, or more, to the pump than to the connecting pipe.
The pump was working very efficiently when he was at Dalkey, but
the connecting pipe need not be more than a very short length lie
had stated all this to the Croydon Committee a year ago, and had been
made the subject of their investigation. He had then stated that
the velocity of the traits on the Dalkey line was at its maximum,
but it appeared to him that the velocity was accumulating at the
moment the train left the tube. There certainly was a slight accele.
ration, and that he attributed to the diminished friction which had
been laid down in Mr. Hawkesley's formula, and the decrease of
density as the train approathed the engine. Last y..ar he had
attributed the whole of the loss of power to leakage, but at that
time he knew nothing of friction. The only difference be-
tween his evidence then and now was, that the loss of velocity
was to be attributed to two elements instead of one. He could
not say whether the result of friction was to be ascribed to the ex.
haustion of the air by the pumping engine, or whether it was the
effect of the impulse of the piston in the tube. The motion of
the train was partly the effect of propulsion and partly the effect
of suction. The rapidity of the motion of the air, at the first stroke
of the pump, was equal to the force of the stroke. But this would
act only on the first column of air which the pump commanded,
but the next column would not move at all, except to an attenuation
allowed by the vacancy left by the air drawn out. The leakage in
the tube arid tenacity of the air would be indicated by the height
at which the barometer stood respectively at the engine and on the
piston, but only by a single ratio. Indeed, he could not see the use
of two barometers at all, butTif one only were used, the depressing
condition of the mercury in the barometer would indicate the
weight of the air in the tube, and consequently its density. The
atmospheric engine was certainly nut so efficient a machine for trac-
tion as the locomotive. On a small railway of sor 6 miles its length,
with a large traffic,the atmospheric principle allowed of an economical
increase in the number of trains. He had stated that the locomo.
tive trains had been obliged to bend to public convenience, but he
could not say that the public had ever been obliged to bend to the
trains. It was, however, true that the London and Birmingham
Company had advertised that the express trains would consist only
of a limited number of carriages. He dared to say that it would
be a convenience if third-class carriages could be taken by the ex-
press trains as well as the first-class carriages. There was a diffi-
culty in dealing with a large number of passengers on particular
occasions, and he would not wish to start quick locomotive trains
oftener than a quarter of an hour from each other, but he thought
the atmospheric trains would be equally dangerous. In the event of
two trains arriving et the same time, and to overrun, and not to
bring up at the stopping places, there would be a danger of collision,
and whether the points were down or up he did not see that the
danger would prevented. This would only happen at the crossings.
He had not estimated the number of crossings, but he believed
that every section of pipe would be a meeting.place. He was,
however, assuming the experience on a locomotive line
and applying it to the atmospheric line; and on a
double line, upon the locomotive -principle, there was
a great immunity, but if the man at the junction whb had com-
mand of the points turned them the wrong way the collision would
wba relisneg.
pußt uutptohneraenlahsenroap,
an boirlditLy of a
ry
crtor,asi
in in
g tt.rp td
i•ancee,d
foforr,
ione liorderne
to get from one line to the other, the engine would have to be re-
versed. On steep gradients the atmospheric principle had the ad-
vantage, as on a locomotive line the engine would slip the moment
its weight became its load. They
the assumed the engine at IS tons
ealnudatlhte. carriages at
but astohathd merely attractive power exerted was
ureferenee to exeenditure
35t
c
of fuel, economy in fuel, velocity,
as this
this wTohtieltigrtaadkieenattroafinlul:n 100 is equal to about Su feet in a
33
aplane or 1 itiy„', An engine such
0 at forty miles an
mi.e, anti an esgide. of this power would basely take itself up at
that speed. The advantages 01 the atmospheric I
overcoming steep gradients, and it would, of course, overcome lay
in
gradients better; but, on a long line, he thought that •easier
-,
it was no,
only commercially disadvantageous, but inschanically undesirable.
Locons,..vss engines could work up gradients of 1 in 100, but at a
vary reduossi need
To Mr. M MILNES, Mr. Stephenson stated that he haa con-
templatsd a combination of the locomotive and atmospheric prin.
ciplis on the iine which he had charge of from Tiiiig itemrester,
where, going up to Dudley, there would be a gradient of BO

THE STTN, LONDON, FRIDAI MORNING, JUNE 20, lit4s.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF LORDS, .June 19.

Their Lordships assembled at Five o'clock.
SIR HENRY POTTINGER.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL brought down her Majesty's
answer to their Lordships' address expressive of their con-
currence in her Majesty's mesaage,recommending that a pension
of 1,500/. a year should be granted to Sir Henry Pottinger for
his services in China.
The Duke of WELLINGTON moved that it.be entered on
the journals of the House.
Messengers from the Commons brought up several Bills,
which were read a first time.
SCHOOLMASTERS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
This Bill was read a third time and pawed.
LEEDS AND WEST RIDING RAIL WAY BILL.
Lord BROUGHAM presented a large number of petitions
in favour of this Bill.
SMALL DEBTS BILL.
Lord BROUGHAM said this Bill, which was to save small
debtors the expense of employing attorneys and solicitors, had
been sent back because it contained a provision giving a deputy
gaoler the fee of a shilling for swearing the affidavits of
persons placed under his charge. The Commons, therefore,
objected to the Bill, because it passed a tax, and it ought there-
fore to be sanctioned by them first. He had struck out the ob-
jectionable words, and he now had to move that the Bill, as
amended, be read a first time.
Lord POR rm AN objected to the Bill because it proposed,
fir the first time, to give deputy gaolers the power of adminis-
tering oaths.
Lord BROUGHAM said the clause did nat affect the prin-
ciple of the Bill, and he had no objection to s'rike it out.
The Bill was then read a first time.
COMMON LAW PROCESS BILL.
Lord CAMPBELL said he had to move for a Select Com-
mittee of their Lordships House, to search the journals of the
House of Commons respecting three Bills, which their Lord-
ships had sent down to them. He was under the impression
that such a Committee would report th-t, after the Bills were
read a second time in the House of Commons without any discus-
sion, the Committees on them were postponed for six months. It
might be supposed from this that the Bills were unconstitutional
and likely to act unjusily towards Ireland, but the fact was not
so. Representations had been made to him that debtors
holding property in Ireland were in the habit of residing out
of the kingdom, and thus evading the just claims of their credi-
tors ; for it was a technical rule in the law of England and
Ireland that no process could be served without the debtor re-
sidel within thejurisdietion of the Court whence they were issued.
It was necessary that provision should be made for the serving
of process in England or Scotland, or even in France or
Germany, so that a person who had contracted a debt in Ire-
land, and who had left that country, might be placed within
the pale of the law, and that a creditor might have a
remedy against his debtor. A Bill giving those powers
passed with the consent of the Noble and Learned Lord.
It was a measure so well considered and of such a beneficial
tendency that he thought such a course to be most extraordinary.
He thought that when the Government supported a measure in
one House of Parliament, they should also support it in the
other. He thought the Secretary of State for the
Home Department should have got up in his place and
stated that they had been approved of by her Majesty's Go-
vernment.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the whole mistake
lay in the Noble Lord entrusting these Bills to a Learned
Friend of his in the Lower House, who had never read them.
After a few words from Lord CAMPBELL,
Lord BROUGHAM said, that the law was in a mostshame-
ful state, and he hoped that if the Noble Lord again brought
in such Bills, he would entrust them to other hands than the
Learned Sergeant.
The motion was then agreed to.
BISHOPS' PATRONAGE (IRELAND) BILL.
The Archbishop of DUBLIN moved the second reading of
this Bill.
The Marquis of CL ANRICARDE moved that the second
reading be postponed until the 30th instant. It was only laid
on the table on the 16th, and he would venture to say that not
one Noble Lord, except himself and those who had received
private intimation of the fact, were aware that the second
reading would be pressed to-night. It was a most important
measure, and greater time ought to be given for its consi-
deration.
The Earl of WICKLOW considered that there was no
necessity to postpone the second reading beyond to-night. The
Most Rev. Prelate was anxious to leave this country to attend
to h's duties in Ireland. He (the Earl of Wicklow)
looked upon the Bill as a natural consequence of the
Bill of last session; and, besides, it was necessary that no time
should be lost in passing the measure, that the claim on the
Right Rev. Prelate might be settled.
Their Lordships then divided, when there appeared—
Contents—For the second reading 35
Non-contents
Majority —l6
On oar return to the gallery we found
The Marquis of CL A N RICARDE complaining that there
had not been allowed sufficient time to consider the provisions
of the Bill.
Lord BROUGHAM supported the Bill, and protested that
he could not see what stateable grounds of objection there were
to the measure.
Lord COTTENEI kV' thought, that as the Bill had been laid
on the table of their Lordships' Holm on Monday last, they
were new in a condition to judge of its merits.
Lord CAMPBELL thought it wis a most excellent Bill.
What he would most respectfulv suggest, however, was, that
before any step was taken in reference to the certificate of the
judge, the matter should be submitted to a Board before the
action commenced.
Lord BROUGHAM thought that 53 suits pending at one
time were quite enough to make any man's hair stand on
end.—( A laugh. )
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he pitied his Noble
and Learned Friend, as a Member of that House, if he were
obliged to sit on 53 suits. —( Laughter. )
Lord CLAN RICARDE complained of the improper haste
with which the measure was hurried on. He thought that the
rights of guardians and trustees should be regarded, and that
it should be pstponed till all parties concerned had had time
to judge of its eff,cts.
Lord DEN 'IAN thought that latterly such suits had'dwin-
dled down to comparatively a small number.
After a good deal of conversation, in which the Marquis
of Clanricarde, the Earl of 'Wicklow, Lords Brougham, Cotten-
ham, Denman, and the Lord Chancellor took part,
The Bill was read a second time, and committed.
The Bills on the table having been advanced a stage, their
Lordships then adjourned.