The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-01 00:00:00

NATIONAL SOCIETY-IRELAND.

Government that they were disgusted with what had taken
place, and that they telt themselves degraded by being com-
pelled by the Government to take the part in these proceed-
ings which they had been forced to take.—( Cheers.) He
well knew the great power of his opponents. He well knew
the odds against which he should have to contend.—(Hear,
hear.) He well knew that he was standing in the face of a
tyrant majority—a majority which was ready at any time to do
the bidding of the Right Hon. Gentleman— (Loud cheers)
an individual who was so persecuted that he could at any time
command 300 individuals who would come down to that House
and stultify themselyee to support the Government.—( Loud
cheers.) They beard a great deal said about the independence
of the country gentlemen.—( Hear, hear.) They were for ever
boasting of their independence at their agricultural dinners in
their village pot-houses.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) While
at the same time their clubs in London were absolutely ringing
with the most unjust, unfounded, unmerited, personal. abuse of
the Right Hon. Gentleman. They heard this unbounded
abuse one day, and yet they saw on the following day the same
individuals who tittered it receiving emolument and place from
the hands of the very man they had abused.—(Loud cheers. )
He, as an humble, but an independent Member of that House,
if they had anything like independence, called upon them as
gentlemen and as men of honour to support him. —( Cheers. )
It was his case to-day, it might be theirs to-morrow. He
called upon them, therefore, to support him. If they refused
to do him justice, let not the Hon. Secretary of War say, as
he said the other night, that he (Mr. Duneombe) was afraid
'o have the subject elucida'ed, and that he shrank from stating
the sources from which he derived his information. He had
been guilty of no underhand conduct—he had had recourse to
no dirreputahle means for obtaining that information—(Loud
cheers.) The persons who possessed that informati, nhe pro-
posed to call to the bar of that House ; and they might be
examined as severely as they liked.—( Hear, hear.) He
shrunk not from investigation, and let all the odium, and
all the cowardice, or shrinking from investigation, fall
upon those who opposed it.—(lmmense cheering.)
He should have to move for the attendance of various persons
at the bar of the House, but he woald, in the first place, move
'hat Lieut.-Col. W. L. Maberley, the secretary to the General
Post-office do attend at the bar of the House, and bring with
him a certain book, called the " President's Order Book," and
a certain other book called the "Inspector's Order Book."
( The Hon. Gentleman then sat down amidst loud cheering,
during the continuance of which messengers from the Lords
brought down certain papers which were handed to the
Speaker.)
Mr. DISRAELI said that the Hon. Gentleman the Mem-
ber for Finsbury. in laying before the House the statement he
hail just made, had distinctly alleged that in making that
statement he had no intention of making a personal attack on
any individual. He should have hardly thought it was
necessary to make such a declaration, had it not been
for the situation in which he was placed, connected
with the motion which perhaps originated from a debate to
which he meant not to refer. If the case of the last general
warrant that was issued by a Secretary of State was compared
with the last Post-office warrant that was issued by the Secre-
ary of State, he thought they might discover from that com-
parison that no personal imputation need be applied to vindi-
cate a public right.—( Hear, hear.) There was not
the slightest doubt that the last general warrant is-
sued by a Secretary of State was an act of tyranny--
an act of oppre'sion and an iniquitous act, but no person
would pretsnd that the Secretary of State who issued it was a
tyrant, an oppressor, or an essentially unjust man. On the
contrary, he thought Lord Halifax was a good-natured and
a well-meaning man. Custom freed the Minister from any
moral imputation; but when a point was called int / public dis-
cussion, he would not admit that custom and habit, though it
freed the Minister from moral insputati in, freed him also in a
legal point of view.—( Hear, hear.) What were the circum-
stances under which the Hon. Gentleman brought the case be-
fore the House? It vies a question which now not only en-
gaged the attention of the House, but interested also t! use of
the nation—( Hear, hear)—and he gave the Hon. Gentleman
who brought it forward credit for the same purity of feeling
as the Minister immediately alluded to; and he was surprised
that any Minister of the Crown should have ever risen in that
House, and say that such a question was prompted by personal
motives.—( Hear, hear.) It was only in answer to such an im •
pu'ation that he, for himself, expressed his feelings that no
personality in that respect influenced him in making a declara-
tion that applied not to the House merely, but to a particular
individual. Whatever might be the ebullition of feeling in
other quarters, he was of opinion that the individual to
whom he addressed himself had done him justice.
The Honourable Gentleman had placed the question
neatly and completely before the House.—( Hear, hear.)
All he said was—" If my letters have been opened, the officers
of the Post-office hare committed a bre.-eh of privilege, unless
indeed they have done so under the warrant of the Secretary of
State. If they have done that, produce the warrant and I will
appeal to the courts of justice to decide whether that war-
rant is a legal instrument or not." He was at a loss to under-
stand w het answer could be given to that direct appeal. Now
that was the view which was natu ally taken by the Hen.
Gentleman in his individual case. He believed that the
country wished that the warrant should he introduced, not
merely to vindicate the honour of the Hon. Gentleman, or the
reverse, but that an opportunity might be afforded to the sub-
jects of the Queen to try whether that instrument was a legal
tine. The situation of the Hon. Gentleman might he the
situation of any Member of that House, or of any subject of
the Qneen to-morrow; and the question which he
asked was, whether, when he had been subjected to a wrong.
he should not be allowed a remedy ? He knew that some Hen.
Gentlemen might say that this was a power which should
always be at the disposal of the Government ; others might
say that it was a disgrace to this country for foreign nations to
know that they exercised it: and others again might urge that
this could scarcely be the ewe, when every foreign nation
itself exercised the power. There was this distinction always
to be remembered, though foreign nations might have exer-
cised this power, foreign nations had never believed that Eng-
land exercised it. The question, as one of policy, was a very
simple one. The question was, were they to be ruled by a
popular Government, or did they wish to he ruled by a Go-
vernment of police?—(Hear, hear.) No doubt a popular Go-
vernment might have many inconveniences. No doubt it
would he much better, for instance, that the question of the
sugar duties should be settled without any loss of time ;
and it was a great inconvenience, as the Right Hon.
rifled bue.o ,glad utit'en:a thSt di Mtge
time. For his own part, he did not doubt that the question
might be settled by the Right Hon. Gentleman himself in his
Cabinet as well as. and perhaps better, than through their in-
terference.— Laughter. ) But that was one of the inconve-
nieeces of popular Government. By not prying into the cor-
respondence of individuals, they might subject themselses to
very great calamities; they might have Bristol burnt, as they
had had it burnt; they might have Birmingham assailed, as they
had had it assailed.—( Hear, hear.) But the country struck
thebala nce.—
veniences for the sake of a popular Government ; and the
country, after eamr,ubsteadr.e) It agreed to suffer certain incon •
decide this question. Now, he be-
lieved that that was an impartial view as regarded the general
question. He had said at first, what he felt now, that those
who, by a perversion of feeling which he could not compre-
hend, hail thought it expedient to turn this question into an
assault upon the Government or any particular Minister, were
not in any way justified by the facts of the case.--( Hear. )
With regard to the country,
though it sympathised with the
Member for Finsbury on this question, yet it considered it
of an importance still further than as it affected the Hon.
Gentleman's individual interest. The public wished that
there should be an opportunity of deciding whether these
warrants of Cue Secretary of State were legal warrants or
not. They wished the question to be decided as the question
,f general warrants was decided, and if it could be shown
that these warrants were legal, then it became a question
open to the discussion of that House, whether the power of
issuing them was such a power as, in a free country ought to
exist.—( Hear.) The lion. Gentleman who had introduced
this subject seemed, by some observations which he ( Mr.
D'lsraeli) almost regretted that he had made, to think that
an impartial decision of this question in that House was im-
possible. Certainly, when he recollected the last debate, to
which he would not now refer, he was not surprised, after
all the misconceptions and elaborate misrepresentations that
had been made—he was not surprised that the Hen. Member
should th nk the decision would not be a fair one.
He (Mr. D'lsraeli) could not believe, though the
Honourable Member seemed to suppose it, that any
intimidation was pu,posely or aforethought enacted in that
House. But there was not the slightest doubt that both on
this question before them, and on others that had been before
them within the last two or three years, there had been misun-
derstandings that could only have been the result of misconeep-
tions—perhaps mutual misconceptions—as to the relationship
between the leaders of a party in that House, and the sup-
porters of that party. He alluded to these circumstances, be-
cause the Honourable Gentleman seeined to think that, on this
occasion, a free arid impartial consideration of the question
was not to Le secured, and because, unless there was a correct
understanding on this head, he almost despaired of the Hon.
Gentleman's receiving that fair decision. When, after the
last election, the common and baneful differences of party had
been destroyed, and when every one knew that the constituent
elements of party in that House were changed, the old state of
parties ceased, and the old notions of party almost evaporated.
Under those circumstances, in a popular assembly of more than
six hundred persons, it was inevitable that there mu,t arise dis-
cussions, in which, though Gentlemen sat on different sides ofthe
House, vet on questions in which the elementary principles of
their political opinions were concerned, they would divide in
the same lobby, and take the same side. This had often hap-
pened ; the Hon. Gentleman opposite proposed a motion
which did not seem to affect the 'principles of either party, and
some Gentlemen on this side of the House supported it. Cir-
cumstances occurred which showed that a division which might,
if not embarrassing, still be unpleasant to the Government,
and then a system commenced which seemed to justify the Hon.
Gentleman in thinking that he could not get it fair decision.
It appeared to him that statesmen adopted two principles—
that of praise, and innuendo and imputation—the insinuations
of base motives and the allegations of fractious conduct. It
generally, continued the Hon. Gentleman, develops itself in
foreign matters. There is a little irritability on the Treasury
bench.—( Laughter.) That is almost immediately followed
by some impatience among the immediate friends of the Go-
vernment ; and then, if tt is observed that some gentlemen
get up, there is an imputation of mean and of personal mo-
tives—l might say corrupt :motives—against every gentleman
who is perhaps speaking or about to vote on the propositions,
although the question may not involve any party
principle or any political principle, but is devoted
merely to a matter of practice. Now in this
state of affairs, prebably at the end of two or three
nights' debate, when the course which has been taken has nettle
rally produced an acerbity in many quarters, and perhaps the
expression of a bitternes the sincerity of which cannot be
doubted —(Loud laughter)—at the right moment the Right
Hon. Baronet rises to cap the climax, and probably having
been just assured by one of his aide-de-camps that he is likely to
have a larger majority than ever, tie makes a passionate appeal
to his supporters, as if the strong Government were in the
throes of dissolution—( Loud laughter)—and those Gentlemen
who rise on this side the Hose after that are charged with a
desire to embarrass the Government by distinct political collu-
sion, or of Parliamentary intrigue. Now, I protest against
this. The system is not founded on justice or fair play. It is
not founded on the real understanding on which principles
exist. It is, in fact, though unintentional, tyranny--( Cheers)
—and is, to my mind, as degrading to those who exercise as
those oho endure it.—(Loud cheers.) No, I take a recent
case, because it is fresh in my memory—l mean
when the Honourable Gentleman, the other night,
called our attention to this particular instance of grievance.
He brought forward a motion which at the first blush every otte
might see would be opposed by the Cievertittent in existence,
and by the Government vvh t preceded them. That at once '1
takes from it the appearance of a party question. There is a
general impression in this House, that it is extremely' desirelfle.
that the decisions of Committees should elleayil be respected,
and never disturbed. I believe that impression is not peculiar
to either side of the House. The Hon. Member for Hull, from
whose character it would certainly he impossible to say that he'
was capable of anything kite political collusion, forming his
opinion from the statement of the Hon. Member for Finsbury
himself, said he was inclined to support the opinion of the Com.
mittee, but it was impossible that the individual instance of the
Hon. Member for Finsbury could be passed over. It so hap-
pened that certain circumstances were brought forward, as will
always happen in a popular assembly of this kind—circum-
stances which might indicate that a division was about to take
place, not embarrassing, but probably more disagreeable than
the Government ever anticipated, if they had condescended
even to think of the division in the first instance. Well,
then, immediately the sytsem, and all the powers of the system,
are put into action.—(Cheer: and laughter.) no Right Hon,

Mr. SHAW presented a petition from Dublin, praying
that the patronage of the Government might be equally ex-
tended to the several educational establishments in Ireland.
He stated that they had presented a petition previously to
the House, in which they had prayed to be relieved from
the injurious partiality which had been shown to the Na-
tional Society of Ireland, and stating that a portion of
the grant had been devoted to Protestant schools. They
prayed to be relieved from the difference thus made in favour
of the National Society.
INCOME-TAX.
Lord OSSULSTON presented a petition from Wooller, in
Northumberland, for a t eyeal of so much of the income-tax as
was levied on trades and professions.
CHARITABLE BEQUESTS ACT.
Mr. BLA KE prevented a petition from Kilmean, in the
county of Cork, very numerously and respectably signed, com-
plaining of the proviAens of the late Charitable Bequests Act,
particularly that part of it which proposed to abolish certain
monastic institutions which had been found very useful.
STOKE-UPON-TRENT. _ . .

Mr. RICARDO presented a pet tion from the inhabitants of
Stoke-upon-Trent, praying that a public market should be
erected in that town.

„_
RAILWAYS.
'.llr. O. GORE presented a petition from a place, the name
of which we could not hear owing to the noise that prevailed, in
favour of the Cheshire Junction Railway.
HUNGERFORD SUSPENSION BRIDGE. -
Mr. HAWES presented a petition, praying for a further ex-
tension of powers to the Hungerford Suspension Bridge
Company.
POST-OFFICE INQUIRY.

Mr. WAKLEY moved that the petition from certain
electors and other inhabitants of the borough of Finsbury, re-
lating to the 12,st-office inquiry, which had been pt.< sented on
the 27th inst., be printed with the Votes. —Agreed to.
WINDO V-TAX.

Lord DUNCAN gave notice that, instead of moving the
resolution which he had put upon the paper, he should, on
Monday, March 17, move for a Committee to inquire respect-
ing the window• tax.
EAST INDIA COMPANY.—SUGAR DUTIES.

Mr. A STELI. presented a petition from the lion. the Pro-
prietois of East India Stock, agreed to that day, against the
discriminating duty upon white sugars.
On the motion of Mr. L ABOUCHERE, the petition was
read by the Clerk at the table.
POST-OFFICE SPY SYSTEM.

Captain PECIIELL -:res:•nted a petition complaining of the
opening of Mr. Duncombo's letters, and praying for a Parlia-
mentary inquiry.
FOREIGN ESPIONAGE. _ .

Mr. MILNER GIBSON presented a petition from a foreign
gentleman resident in this country, but whose name, from the
ro-near, praying' me tiouSe'to interteie %It'll the 'powera' or
the Executive Government when exercised in c )-operatioa with
foreign Governments in their endeavours to control the actions
of foreigners resident in this country. Ile stated, that it the
proceedings of foreigners in this country were to be regulated
by the rules adopted by the Austrian Government, it must put
an end to all freedom of discussion on poli'ieal topics,
and of that liberty which was the peculiar boast of England.
That it would further the ends of foreign espionage, and would
render nugatory all the efforts to promote freedom in the
world, and w told convert that which was merely intended for
legitimate efforts for the improvement of a country into a
colourable act of cons. iracy and high treason. He, therefore,
prayed the House to inter:ere, and in souse way modify the use
of the posers of the Executive Government in their control
over foreigners, and collusion with foreign States.
MARRIAGE (IRELAND) ACT.
Sir T. FRENIANTLE said, that with regard to the
question which had beets asked by the Hon. Member for
Belfast (Mr. Roe'), as to whether the Government in-
tended to amend the Act with regard to mixed
marriages, celebrated by Roman Catholic clergymen,
ha begged to say that it was the intention of the Government
to bring in a Bill to amend that Act ; but as the Bill had not
)et come into operation, he thought it would be better to wait
and see how it would work.

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 1, 1845.

Gentleman even brought forward the sanction of his great
example--a division was called for, gentlemen were sent for
from the country to support the C;overnment in danger, that
never was in l eril—(Laughter)—for there neeqs must be a
great party triumph when not a single party principle was at
stake, or a single party principle in danger.—(Cheers and
laughter.) Now, I really think that more liberal constructions
might come from the Treasury Pench at this moment. I
think the Right Hon. Baronet is the last Minister that ought
to be a political martinet. I conceive that he is rot a Minister
in a position requiring the devotion of his party. I can sup-
pose a Minister with a very small majority, holding office
merely in deference to hi: party. lie would have a right to
say, when a party fight or difficulty came, " I expect your de-
votion—you must be ready limier all circumstances to
support me.—( Hear, hear. ) That is not the position
of the Right Honourable Gentleman. It is quite
the reverse. lie has got a very large party
to support him, and although the Opposition before him is dig.
tinguished, doubtless, for eminent talent, and which numeri•
call is not very contemptible, }et it is not in the position of
being celebrated for the power of cohesion.—(Laughter.)
Tie Right Hon. Baronet, therefore, is in a position which
really should allow him to be indulgent.—( Laughter.) It is
very easy for him to turn round and say "I am quite fresh
for the attack, I am prepared to meet the fot—no one ever
saw me quail."—(Laughter.) But the Right Hon. Gentle-
man forgets that the foe before him does not wish to fight
him.—( Great laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman for-
gets that the victory is very easy when there is nobody to
oppose him. Another reason why I think the Right
Honourable Gentleman should not adopt that tone, is this :
the Right Hon. Gentleman should not forget that, after all, a
great many of his supporters were elected under different cir-
cumstances.—( The remainder of the sentence was lost in the
immense cheering which followed.) I think a little philoso-
phical consideration would show him, as a great statesman, un-
der these circumstances, that what I have stated is the least we
could expect from him.. I admit that I, for ,ne, was sent here
by my constituents to sit on this side, and the Right Hon.
Gentleman may object to me, though not on great occasions if
I have been sometimes in a different lobby to himself. But I was
sent here by my constituents to swell a Tory majority, and to
support a Tory Ministry. Whether a Tory Ministry exist or
not, is a question I will not enter into—(Laughter)—but I am
bound to believe 'that a Tory majority still remains, and there-
fore, if any cross over to the other side of the House, I do not
think it will be the majority. Now, I hope the Right lion.
Gentleman will, therefore, on reflection, take a more con-
descending and charitable view of our motives than he has
hitherto been pleased to de. I a:n sure that, for myself, I can
say I never for a moment misinterpreted the conduct of the
Right Hon. Baronet. I know that some would think that he
is shunning his own party and looking to new allies.—(Laugh-
ter.) I never for a moment believed anything of the kind.
The position of the Right Hon. Baronet is so clear and pre-
cise, that I cannot fir a moment suppose he would ever leave
it. I never believed that he was looking to a coalition, though
some of my constituents do. The Hon. Gentleman knows
that it is best to remain where he is. The Right Hon. Ba-
ronet caught the Whigs bathing, and walked away with their
.• clothes.—( This felicitous expression was caught up by the
House at once, and roars on roars of laughter followed.) He
has left them in the full enjoyment of their liberal position,
. and he is strictly conservative cf their garments.—( Great

laughter.) I cannot conceive why the Right. Hon. Parnnet
should desert his party, they seem to me never to desert him.
Never was there a case yet when he had less need to find new
friends. I therefore hope that he will be on reflection more
indulgent. I look upon the Right Hon. Baronet as having
obtained the shrew of liberalism—he is the political Pefruchio
—he has outbid )ou all.—( Great laughter.) Ah, Sir, if we
could only indure the Right Honourable Baronet to take
a larger and smore liberal view of his Parliamentary
position than he seems in moments too testy for
so great a man to indu'ge in, we might be spared,
Sir, some of the imputations which, from a man
like him, are really painful. The Right Hon. Baronet may
find it sometimes convenient to reprove the party on his right
flank. Perhaps we deserve it. I for one am prepared to bow
to the rod, but really if the -Right Hon. Baronet, instead of
having recourse to himself, would only stick to quotation. he
might rely on it that he would have a more severe weapon.
When he does appeal to authority, in prose or verse, I see he
is more successful, partly because I observe the Right Hon.
Baronet never refers to any passage which has not previously
received the meed of Parliamentary approbation—(Loud
laughter)—and, partly and principally, because his quotations
are so happy. The Right Hon. Gentleman, when he intro-
duces a great name into the debate, knows how important is
the effect, and occasionally how electrifying. He never refers to
any author who is not great, and sometimes who is not learned.
Mr. Canning, for example. that name never to be mentioned
in the House of Commons without emotion. We all admire
his genius—we all, at least most of us, must. deplore his un-
timely end, and is e all sympathise in his fierce struggle with
supreme dulness and sublime mediocrity. with the inveterate
fee and the candid friend.—( Great cheering.) The Right
Hon. Baronet must be aware that quotations from such an
authority most always tell,—a passage would he sublime, for
example. on friendship written by Canning, and quoted by the
Right lion. Gentleman.—(Great cheering.) The poem and
the speaker would be a felicitous combination, its effect in de-
bate would be overwhelming ; and, I am sure, that all that
would be remaining, would be for me thus rublicly to con-
gratulate the Right Hen. Baronet, not only on his ready
memory, but on his courageous conscience. (The lion. Gentl-
eman sat down amidst loud and enthusiastic cheers. )
Sir JAMES GRAHAM who was so indistinct as to be
scarcely heard in the gallery said, he rose to give the House
the reasons why he intended to oppose the motion of the Hon.
Member for Finsbury. If there had been tyranny, as had
been stated by the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down,
there was now open and avowed rebellion to it, and not as
hitherto covert mutiny. After what had been stated by the
Hon. Member for Knabury. he (Sir James Graham) would
not treat the motion before the House as a question of privi-
lege. He thought that a 1 the circumstances eon-
nected with this question antecedent to the 4th
of July, might with propriety be discarded. It was
of the utmost importance that he should recal to the
attention of the House what had occurred on the day when the
Select Committee had been granted. The Noble Lord the
Member for London had, on that day, distinctly stated that,
while he had filled the office of Secretary of State, he had fol-
teseset *Le sesess.ese et Sir R. Walpole. and had, in pursuance of
eis emieet stess, :.bunt warrants upon his special responsioiiily.
The Noble Lord had stated that he had come down to the
House prepared to oppose the motion of the lion. Gentleman.
He said that if the Secretary of State were prepared to say,
as Sir Robert Walpole bad sa'd, that he had exercised that
right, not from motives of personal curiosity—not from vindic-
tive feelings—not from motives of self-interest—but solely be-
cause he considered that the exercise of it was necessary for the
public good, he (Lord .1. Russell) should be prepared to oppose
the motion. He (Sir J. Graham) at that time proposed an
amendment to the House; he stated, on the whole, he con-
sidered that a Secret Committee would be preferable to a Select
Committee. '1 he:Noble Lord distinctly stated that he considered
also that a Secret would be preferable to a Select Committee.
It was best to be exact on such a point, and he would therefore
quote the very words used by the Noble Lord, which were as
follows i—" I entirely agree with the reasonings urg:d by
the Right Hon. Gentleman (meaning himself, Sir J. Graham),
for preferring a Secret Committee to a Select Committee. I
think that the proposed inquiry will be gone into more fully,
and that the investigation will be more strict. and that the
Committee will be enabled to arrive at more correct conclu-
sions."—(Cheers.) He would now call the attention of the
House to the proceedings which had taken place on this sub-
ject. In the month of June, a fortnight before this desisinn
had been come to, the Hon. Gentleman had brought forward
the question, and a division had taken place, in which the Go-
vernment had been run very close—he believed that the Go-
vernment majority amounted only to 26. When the Select
Committee was appointed, five gentlemen had been appointed
on it, who on that occasion had voted against her Ma-
je'ty's Ministers. Only three members of that Com-
mittee had voted with her Majesty's Ministers and
one had not voted at all. —( Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord the Member for London had distinctly stated that, in
his opinion, that Committee had been fairly constituted—that
he preferred a Secret Committee to any other tribunal—and
that it appeared that the composition of that Committee was
=atisfactory. That Committee, so constituted. had investigated
the subject, and had arrived at a conclu•ion which appeared to
be satisfactory to the House of Gimmons. It was of great im-
portance that the House should hear in mind what had been
the allegations of the Hon. Member for Finsbury before the
constitu ion of that Committee. He had, in the first place.
stated that there existed an inner office in the post-office, in
which letters were opened wholesale—that the Brighton bag
was called for—that the Dublin bag was called for—and he
stated it was his belief that everybody's letters were opened—
that even his own letters were opened. He said that the
Brighton bag and the Dublin bag were called for, and that the
Albany letters were sent for—that the opening of letters went
on wholesale—that, in fact, the e was a roving com-
mission for opening letters wandering about the coun-
try. The Honourable Member for Finsbury distinctly
stated on that occasion that he had no doubt but that his own

letters had been opened. Such was the state of the case when
the Secret Committee had been aprinted. But that was not
all. On the 16th of July the Hon. Gentleman had made a
fresh appeal to the Howe. He was asked to repeat the charges
he made to the House on that occasion. The Hon. Gentle-
man said he would prefer a 1311 of indictment, and he again
enumerated the charges he would prefer. He did not think it

necessary to repeat those charges, but he said he would be ready
to prove that the letters of foreign ministers had been opened,
end that for two years the most unscrupulous use was made of
the power of opening letters. He mentioned that the letters
of many individuals were opened, and he said he believed then,
, and believed now, that his own letters were opened. ,Now, on
the 22d of July, the Hon. Gentleman stated in substance all
the allegations he made on the 16th of July. He stated that
he would prove those allegations before the Committee, and
that the proof which be tendered broke down only in
conse pence of a condition which the Honourable
Gentlemen sought to impose on the Committee. The Ho-
nourable Member appealed, on the 16th of July, from the
judgment of the Secret Committee to that House, and moved
that it Elwell be an instrUction to that Committee that they
should hear the evidence he had to lay before it. The Noble
Lord, the Chairman of the Committee, said they were anxious
to have his evidence, and that other evidence, the moat ample,
had been ti`ated at their digposel, and that they had proceeded
with their inquiry without any reference to party or personal
considerations. But the circumstances and conditions under
which the Hon. Member for Finsbury required to appear before
the Committee, obliged them to refuse his request; and there-
fore they were either wrong in thus refusing him, or this
House was wrong in refusing his motion as to the instruction
to be given to the Committee. That Motion Was negatived by a
large majority of the House, and in that majority appeared the
Hon. Member for Portsmouth, and the Noble Lord the Member
for Sunderland. Nov he (sir J. flraham) would contend for it
that the Secret Committee was the best end safest tribunal before
which such a question could be investigated, and he believed
there could be no doubt of the fatt, that that Committee had
carefully and deliberately made that examination.—( Heat,
hear," from the Ministerial benches.) But the Hon. Member
for Finsbury, not satisfied with the report of the Committee,
appealed again to this House, and asked it to appoint, in lieu
of the Secret Committee, a Select Committee of inquiry. That
motion was put, was fully discussed, and again the Hon.
Member was defeated; but, not satisfied with that, the House
now found him for the third time appeeling to it, and calling
upon it to do that which would be exactly the conVertl of its
two former decisions. He ( Sir J. Graham) would not weary
the House by reading passages from the report of the Secret
Committee ; but it did appear by that report that all the elle-
, satiotil Centaieett in the lign. Mettibers tingittal eherge had
Peen investigated. The existence of the "inner office" at the
General Post-office had been inquired into, as well
as the tads done there, and also the charges
al3olil the tirigiiion Inge tied the Dublin bags,
and all the other items in the catalogue of the Hon. Member's
charges, had been minutely inquired into. They further in-
quired into the power that hod been exercised under those
Warrants, with a view to aacertalii whether that power had been
made subservient to private curiosity ; and the deliberate de-
cisiou of the Committee, solemnly come to, was, though they
were not. unanimous on the point, that each warrant had been
issued with discretion ; that in no case had any warrant been
issued from private or personal motives.—( Hear, hear.) In
the course of the observations made by the Hon. Member, he
had made use of some strong language and equally strong as-
sertions ; and he (Sir James Graham), if he felt inclined to do
so, would be entitled to use language just as strong ; but, with-
out appealing to such assistance, he would declare deliberately
and solemnly that he never opened, or directed to be opened,
without a written authority from the Home office, in confor-
laity with the long-continued practice of his predecessors, any

•letter from pirsonal or sin 'ictive f•elings.— ( Hear, hear.)
He would go further, and state in the presence of many Gen-
tlemen who had private knowt'dge of the tact, that there oas
a record lept in the Home-office, sn t ,n7n.her in the General
Post-office, of every warrant issued by him ; and that every
wart ant that had been issued by him had been produced by him
before the Secret Committee;—(Hear, brae. ) And not only
that, but he went seriatim through all the facts and circum-
stances connected with each; and without the least reservation
or dis4uise' stated to that Committee all his reasons for having
issued each warrant.--( Hear, hear.) If the House should en-
tertain any question as to his veracity in this point, then he
could appeal to the officers in the Home-offi e and the General
Post-office to bear him out. The Committee had had all these
officers before them, and no doubt they checked his evidence
by th ire. With regard to what had been said about the report.
of the Ct•mmittee of the House of Lords, he begged to remind
the Home that it was quite enough for him to confine himself
to the charges of the Hon. Member for Finsbury, and the Com-
mittee of this House. Notwithstanding that strong language had
• been used by him and other Honourable Members towards
him in the course of this debate, he was willing to Admit there
was some excuse for it, seeing that this was a question which
deeply affected the public, and which rendered an inquiry
necessary ; but that inquiry had taken taken place, the rudest
investigation had been made, and he had endeavoured to show
that every act of his in reference to the question had also been
investigated by the Committee, arid that Committee had given
a verdict in his :favour. —( Hear, hear; from the Ministerial
benches.) He felt that the time of the House was precious, and
that he would not, therefore, be warranted in trespassing upon
. .

-
that paint. The only joint raised was on the que•tion "ra-
ther the Right Hon. Baronet had the power or not to or*
letters.
Lord SA NDi)N sail that he must differ from !he "1
Gentleman oproFito, for he conceived that the Committee did
not try the issue on 'he intention of parties, but whether their
power had been rightly, or-tasted. • of
Mr. WARBURTON again objected to the observation
the Noble Lord, fer he conceived that they were not ito"
panelled to consider the honesty of the Minister.
Lord J. RUSSELL said he had heard the statement of the
Right lion. Baronet the Secretary of State for the ll°leed
Department. That Right Hon. Genii wan said that he ha
exercis d the powers with which he was invested as Secretary
of ~.tate •Art
solely with a desire to preserve the public peace.
Hon. Meinber on his side of the House believed that his letters
ad been opened, and to asked the Secretary whether Suet
were the case (Jr not. Now, he (Lord J. Russell) could 11131_
help expressing himself as dissatisfied with the Government
persisting in the course which they had taken—( Hear, hear)
.-e
and lie felt that an Hon. Member was degraded when te_e,
correspondence between himself and his constituents rir
violated. The Right lion. Baronet said that he acted soil
with a regard to the public peace. They had not said
or
the Hon. Member had been engaged in any treasonable o.
improper correspondence, for if he had that would give the eo.t
of the Minister another feature. But the Right Hon. Genitellea
man would not give any answer, though he (Lord J. Rss ,
thought that he might have done so. It therefore appeareui.
him that the letters of the Hon. Member had been opeoe'L
Whether the officers of the Post-office were called
the bar of the House or not, it was clear that if the letter.
had been opened they had violated the privileges of the It'utthes
The Right Hon. Baronet said nothing of this privilege, oefe
declared that nothing had transpired to show that the Nub,
Member for Finsbury had acted otherwise than as a loYal_ote,
jest of her Majesty, and that nothing had come to his lin 6
ledge that affected his character as a Member of that Huy.,
This declaration he (Lord John Russell) thought very nrio
terially altered the position of the question before them•.
was ready to take the declaration thus made. Had it not eco
made, he might have felt that, considering the cireumst,
that a high privilege of that House had in his opinion:xi;
violated, a further investigation was necessary. ne and
thought that that declaration made a material difference..
he now conceived that that investigation was uncalled
The answer, it was tree, was unsatisfactory ; and, in his °l;if
nion, to have given an answer, yes or no, would have bees
better than the course which the Right Hon. Baronet bad red
sued. Yet, notwithstanding this, there was still a rev
point of which he ought to have the benefit. If a person his
cused of a treasonable conspiracy were to ask him whether !"o
letters had been opened or not, he would not be bounds IPlyo,
a direct answer to the question. After three nights' r. of
conceived that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chance toy
the Exchequer would not come to the discussion of hianiels
Particular topic with any very pleasant feeling. The D.a,
Hon. Gentleman seemed to have established a different st.
hen°
dard of rebellion than that of '45. He feared no re
, bite
against the Crown or the Throne ; the rebellion of the hire.`
benches.—( Laughter anti cheers.) Happily far bee.
self, he (Lord John Russell) had no aPPreaffeet
eion of such a rebellion —it did net
him.—( Laughter on the Ministerial side.) But there "- Ile
other to; is to which he must allude before he sat dowc.,,e did
alluded to the opening of the letters of M. Mazsinisi
atoll: that this was an act unworthy of the country. and Tejo'
the most despotic Government of Europe would hardlY
tioet
dined to commit, and one which was altogether ;non t the
with the freedom of the country. He did not believe tba_idirg
Government had any intention to betray a personlool
within the British dominions, and he had entertained ;hob
that information had been furnished to foreign Power' etteish
might cruelly implicate persons who had been enjoying .0 bed
protection. lie was happy to say that that imprelp so'
been removed by the explanation which had been give or
other place. Fear these reasons he could not. vote for the s°'
tion of the Hon. Member, but should, on this eteoa:n
port the Government.—( Loud cries of Divide, dirt°eah jits'
Mr. M. MILNES rose amid such clamour, and 9;°;oplsill
culty obtained a hearing. He said he was anxious Obis 00'
why he was about to take the part of a rebel, and en ,t bog'
sion vote for the motion of the lion. Member for roeetii'
His vote had nothing to do with his support of the Le 110'
ment, or with the character or feelings or honour of t°
Member for Finsbury. But he believed a secret warrtl'onber
an anorrnly, and of no avail tor any act which Ovas •tooti
tifii-d, because it was bad for an act not intended to be.l Hb
and if Col. Maherly were to be brought to the bar of thl
he could give no further information than he had sires rrofjcer,
He regarded his Right Hon. Friend es the head polie_isterot,
of the kingdom. Great laughter. ) As the first All sea
the Home Department, his sin yeillance was exterin,ororielea
powerful. He would not refuse to vote with the o°loo
Member for Finsbury, because he thought by refus' 0114
leave the question open whether or not they had been open JO
the Post. office underlings.--( Hear, hear.) Beakje''hich
not know but on some future occasion the power 0 esplsi
Home Secretary possessed, but which he declined l° ote le°
the exercise of to the House, might he abused hY io
honourable or conscientious Minister. He beliee,e pets I
heart that the Right Hoe. Baronet had not abused to"teo thjl,
the law conferred upon him, but there was no Paled ley
under other circumstances. and in the hands di° „„awat
viduals, it might not be abused. On these &Vie f6t*-
stitutional grounds he would support the motione--•
cheering from the Opposition.) 5t of
ibs
Mr. WATSON, who rose amid loud and earn- o.'oo
" &vide," said he would not trespass on the Ho.,ereo.
country called upon its representatives to record the
on this subject. He would vote for the rnotionofctbeeisfljig.
Member for Finsbury.—( Cheers.) The question ('„ Prlibs
Members' letters would ultimately become a elorati°-etsill tee
lege ; but previously to that it was necessary to aleolintdra
facts of the case. That could be only done la
Post.office officers to the Bar of the House. "1
.Ifortsilfi•
question affecting the rights of Members was to be ir Pr. 0,0
it should be considered whether it trenched upon ode or
leges. A most important admission had been ott iltsat
Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool, who said Lueletles•
cretion exercised by the Secretary of State bad4beteTte"
considered by the Committee.—( Hear, hear.) 0 rot,
was the meaning of the ts verdict of the Committee.,r 404
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, in the fervour of dies;o
struck the hat of Mr. Hawes who sat beneath him, arose
; roars of laughter followed, and it was sotne.:4o olt
the House regained its usual gravity.] The CorTirolortee $
in point of fact, given no verdict in favour of the ''l w'oo
for they had never considered the question at l'et";',et Lieir
not then monstrous to tell the country that the ":;ef 414
Baronet, or the Noble Lord the Member for the caiei:
don, had been ac ,&tted, when the matter of whirud 001
accused had never been investigated.—( Renew° tetif e
tits
" Hear, hear.") Then, if it had not been investigloo tbs
necessary to take the next step which the House 1.101
call the Post-office officers to the bar of the 11°u talk !001
discussions on this question they had heard greot r act, ot
motioes, but how could they talk about motives
t'd before,"
The Right Hon. Gentleman had been merely eslle, r,l#
Committee and asked how many warrants he hales„'eeDrit-elt
out inquiring into the circumstance/. In the teellikreeel'
took the liberty of addressing the House, and °l° 01100
he now believed, that those general warrants wereoee
sf
He was told that there had been general warrants petee
It. was no such thing. Was the licensing of b 0
the Second legal? Was it the aY'teiotiator
resent day ? Then the Secretary of State 040'011
warrant to seise upon certain papers, bat the
„ge Wheel'
rants had been deprecated by courts of law, ales tt
they had been brought under are notice of the inergriess hirer
minster-hall, condemned as illegal. The et° 094, mei
licensing system were not general warrants. et aeprir- le;
held that opening a Member's letters was a brrae", °petit a'
in 1822, the House had to consider the question O's 100 thr
ters going to the prisons at Manchester, fro, ..oai"eifi'
Parliament, and the House then declared that Tits Pt
hO. „ tole
letters of the Members of that House was a brew' ea le
leges. If it were in that case a breach of pri/ilegZbeW
a greater breach when the letters were addressed to fp dot
by one of his constituents.—( Hear, hear' )o belief
Glared, in the face of the country, his s"lein" 0100'
he believed general warrants to be illega7uder f tbs
was the opinion of the best lawyers in West" acts 11.0:01
(Hear, hoar)—and he consequently considered Ilene •
present and of former Home Secretaries, in ref, Steeps lb
warrants, to be illegal and unconstitutional. potsr ~%eel
State—nor several Secretaries of State—ceold
tot tregeel
law. Custom, and privilege, and prerogative, 0114 deritioe,
Wished by use e, or by Arts of Parliament, or bYvieraliellet'ire
of the courts of law.—( Hear, hear.) This ge 1
system appeared to be somewhat similar to that '1)
t° feP Y '
I°)#
robbing on Gad's-hill, which it was atsemn'eecheeed
usaase.—( The Hon. and Learned Member eo ° lee
§0 eri
ing he es ould support the motion.) 'de" flerr bet' 0
Mr. HUME rose, when the cries of " Di" oi rfooro
and the confusion so great, that the Hon. Member; ;eel 0, lilt
in any manner interrupted, he would move tO ,eoion.tioot
of the debate. He was determined to give eql,, fro!
sentiments on this question, which was altoget_7pieceOse
lb
one. It was a question in which the Comindreknoso oitp,
more importance than the House. He did not
o,,eniogi
Right Hon. Baronet could refuse inquiry. Th.eled teal' 'be
out a warrant was decidedly illeal, and
he
1?lelei gal likeele thel
when a warrant existed, the practice wee ceerseetorrA„
( Hear, hear.) It was a great want of trwra _et the. _ re,
Right Hon. Baronet not to declare whether or. to th, they.
had been issued. He allowed the odium to arias seise,,
office authorities ; and if they had opened with
need ne ed
were not to blame, and if they had not been lead beertrof
t e
were equally innocent. But he believed they
1, the lettePir "t#
The Right Hon. Baronet had not denied that h on. °the.,
Hon. Member for Finsbury had been openceleu44o4olre sea;
House did not stultify itself it must grant th
Nothing °the Vier,
wise it would be lost in public favour. _
calibersdtt'letteste
required than that Colonel Maberly should De
loOle
and asked, first, if he had opened the Hont• the.
of d be",
and if so, by whose authority? If by hat d
_opolote.,ooo,
or sty' (le" get°
cretary he must exonerate himself,
he Right.. -11 l fife:berreiro
the country. He must say that t e
treatment of his Hon. Friend was very haree onee
bet then read extracts from the speech of tb
Finsbury last session, before the Committe;"
mittee 'riot el
which the Hon. Member asked the Ce he fa
_net ,
whether or not his letters had been opened;, an if the 744 00_:
dared his intention of re-opening the !neclTcr froittee eofo
r for
rdi e":l:!untr !Is fi ;PI!
the Committee was unsatisfactory.
eolTnben
plaint reported ;
aiondr
tebfeer reference o
Atiheemlbi
report Ur'fforl•frlig
profession asked for an inquirirna.shAtandi;srepce hie
ow
solferritto
--(Hear, 'hear.) The insinuations reiphe •,
perOn-ror jir
ftohratt,hheeirheadrimbeez
minocsotrrbeesplootetneewi
to the,:rogbt °'/Ote
"ear' ping do,
quirt'Ho n.
could
o Member,ot abned surely
justifiably i nt o
admitted painful
ch a ch art
thge 0";b:s, to,
Right Hon. Gentleman tacitly
ld manfulle dope ea
lion. Member's letters, and he shou
s_ 0 he pi
1; fo
manner of the Right Hon. Baronet h
roud t° denlhe3 rit‘rgo•
himself t°. iont'idt
if he lrer'eapdoeoee
a of
mnadoifofhesphiraitti noort,
bhoenwouourldwhooavide bi.Leiript
with such conduct without denylngeenoring tbe a 110,
to
The Hon. Member concluded
he hoped the Hon. Gentleman redress to • s6l
Lord John Russell for his declaratbiont
otts be
svouiddinaottnaiglitwtw:itclll3bernhesitittes:
drop until he had obtained that
not h• of t
justice entitled.—( Cheers. )rep°with the!otd novo.; :0
Mr. AGLIONBY said the
he real subiee'
it
Committee, for, in point of fact, t
it
had beenovsoto'sr_r oor
with the conduct of Ministers, nor
considered at all in Committ_e:ero._er
of this beeoesr
the Committee, and neither a D
n the question,,lgeo, /(ii, the
persons out of doors interested
udgtoent'lorceree COd
.untry would n „Do
ae
lowed an opportunity of formingr etelnseure eras c done, s
co,
As far as the Hon. Member foo:4trieeo
had b,"" dot
0
public were not satisfied that j
the House to reteriacev.o, e
aiSsie`
(Mr. Aglionby) implored
(Heart r lOW floe
racter, by granting the inquiry. .
The t I
,bet,
the motion would not satisfy th_ierae.oiamo hea WI; tee
Mr. JERVIS said that the dem
•
Baronet oppesite (Sir, James U
denee of the.ell_rooectee 0..
got?
e
knew of nothing in the correspon
wise the t'ndlis trufst'lecl
for Finsbury. which could compr3 Hut was %ley's° ilois
Hwoans.
itG hear.
l.e
el. a gen
q-iu°ll:tri..)f. the
Itlibt et be
I,,.emberesn,u,tfffiettmbierainHit.o-t-oos(esitiotoeftahcr,otoh,erafoene.,:tu,:sday::::}:iniogy, t:trio:co:et:0,10
(ILa u have
g ) A
h toefir t.medyoGur..nlettipternrsanb,uat
member of ,teheea`e seeelliet,lohtet
inup tits placebe aaskneddsaidof
rran" be t-
by what authority they had beep, op( the wa. there, Alit
that his letters hawll e ol
oi ,th
clear that they bad been opened i!! tion ocalidocejeo:oo
pSreocdrue
ctaer yt
hoef
wSatrartaen?t s
(sodhevielriss") 001;c_ i,,ti;tereereeto
the Minister should have the povier b

le-

it at too great length ; but perhaps he might be pardoned for
saying a word or two in reference to the manner in which his
private feelings had been wounded by Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. 'Member for Finsbury had
made allusion to the early intimacy that had existed between
them. No doubt he was at one time upon terms of great and
close intimacy with the lion. Member, an intimsey of no re-
cent date, but one that had been transmitted to them
by their forefathers from an early period, and there-
fore it was with feelings of the greatest pain that he
found himself compelled to come into collision with
one in whose society he had paused many joyous and happy
days, and many pleasant and convivial evenings—( Hear, hear,
and laughter)—and he was happy to say that that intimacy
was not the result of unison of political feeling.—( Hear, hear. )
The Hon. Member had stated that it was from no personal feel-
ings that he had brought en this question, but in the discharge
of his public duty; and that it was because of his political
opinions he had become the advocate, in that House, of those
who demanded the fulfilment of the provisions of the Charter.
It would ill become him ( Sir James Graham) to comment
upon the Hon. Member's line of public conduct ; it was before
the public, and would be judged by the public ; but he was
bound to say of the Hen. Alember, that no circumstance had
ever come to his knowledge,in the discharge of his public duty,
that was inconsistent with the Hon. Member, either as a loyal
subject of the Queen, or with the dignity of a Member of that
House.—(Loud cheers from all parts of the House.) But the
Hon. Member for Liskeard had said that he (Sir J. Graham)
was bound, in the discharge of his public duty, without acting
injudiciously, to give a plain answer to a civil question.
Mr. BULL ER.—I said " a civil answer to a plain ques-
tion."—(Laughter.)
Sir J. CR AII AM—Well. a " civil" answer.—(Laughter. )
Now, he would say, that while he held the public office he did.
tie felt bound not only to answer so the best Pt his ability ques-
tions put to him, not only b) Hon. Members of that House,
but by the humblest member of the community ; but at the
same time he should say, he conceived it to be incompatible
with the free discharge of his duty, to answer questions of a
particular nature.—( Hear.) In conclusion, he begged to as-
sure the lion. Member that in nothing he (sir J. Graham)
had said or done in this matter, did he mean him the least
personsl disres ect.—( Hear, hear.) On the contrary. he could
say with sincerity that his feelings towards him were of a de-
scription that nothing he could say sh old ever shake.—
(Cheers)—and he would now sit clown, again repeating that
he knew nothing of Wm that reflected on hi: character, either
as a loyal subject of the Queen, or the dignity of a Member
of that House.—(Cheers.)
Lord HOWICK said he could wish that this subject. had
not been brought. before the House again, but that
front what had already transpired, her Majesty's Go-
vernment would have deemed it sufficient to
have framed some Bid that would hare guarded against those
abuses in future.—( Hear, hear. ) But as his Learned
Friend had brought it on again before tee House, he ( Lord
Howick) would say the House were bound to consider the sub-
ject again, and renew the inquiry if necessary. The Right
Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department had
not, in the whole course of his explanation, said one word in
denial of his Hon. Friend's statement. The Right Hon.
Baronet did not deny that it was in accordance with prece-
dent, that, when letters were opened, an inquiry was granted,
with a view to ascertain that such a step had been taken by
competent amhority. The Hos. Member for Finsbury hail
stated that he could prove that his letters had been opened—
that nothing in the course of this debate had been sated as a
Puflicient authority or reason for doing so, and therefore he
was justified in pressing for en investigation. But the Right
Hon. Gentleman had resists(' the demand of the lion. Member,
for Finsbury, by the assumption that the question had already
been tried and disposed of by the Secret. Committee. Now,
whst had the Commit tee done? They had reported
that M. Mezziors letters had been opened, and
stated the grounds for doing so, and that they did not con-
sider the Right Hon. Barenet blameable ; but, with regard to
the Hon. Member for Finsbury, the Committee had not only
given no judgment upon it at all, but they left it a matter of in-
ference or doubt as to whether his lion. Friend's letters had
been opened at all or not, or any warrant issued for the par-
pose.—(Hear, hear.) If the Committee had reported that a
warrant had been issued far opening his Hon. Friend's letters,
then the Hon. Baronet would have been justified in acting on
that; but the Committee had done no such thing, nor had they
stated whether any such warrant had been issued at all or not.
Nay, more, the Committee did not even agree, they were not
unanimous as to the fact that there had been a discreet exer-
cise of judgment in the warrants that had been issued. —( Hear. )
It might be that a Minister might do a wrong act from a right
motive ; but he (Lord Hossiek) would say that, let a Minister
holding so high an office as that of Secrete( y for the Hume De-
partment make a mistake from motives, no matter how•good,
it was right that it should be investigated.—(Hear, hear. )
His Hon. Friends the Member for Liverpool, the Member for
eu.tt use zurimier for Kendal, had expressed their opi-
nions that the Court of Inquiry had not had the good fortune
of agreeing among themselves. Coupled with this fact, there
was another remarkable eircumslan. e. It was this—throughout
the whole of its details there was not the slightest notice of the
opening of the letters of his Hon. Friend the Member for
Finsbury in the report. Taking these things together, the
doubt still remained whether his Hon. Friend's letters had been
opened or not. They could not agree then, whether his Hon.
Friend's letters ought to have been opened or not. He need
not recapitulate his opinion of what the
,facts had been, but
there were the strongest eircusr.stances to justify the opinion
that they had been opened. It appeared to him that it was
evident that they were divided in their opinion, and he did not
believe, therefore, that he was precluded from this inquiry.
He felt that it was an extraordinary power to put into
into the hands of a Secret Committee—(Hear, hear)—
and just in proportion to the extent of those powers
he conceived it was necessary that the country and the House
should be satisfied that they had been rightly used. This was
a requirement which in all honour and jus. ice they were bound
to satisfy. He had always understood that the functions of a
Committee were to consider the evidence laid before them,
and that, having so considered it, they were to come to a deci-
sion, and then lay that decision before the House. 'I he Com-
mittee were not the judges—they were only the purveyors of
justice ; and it was the House whose business it was to decide,
when the Committee had submitted their decision to its judg-
ment, whether they had rightly decided or not. The House
was not bound by the decision of the Committee, for the House
often overruled them, and not the House only, but the Go-
vernment also. During last session he had had the honour of

being in the chair of—a
Con milre which had to investi-
gate the rights of private parties, and he had found
that the decision at which they arrived was materially
affected by the subsequent conduct, not of the House,
but of the Government. The Cu•nmittee to which he
alluded was the Committee en the affairs of the New Zealand

Company. There was a disagreement in the Committee, but•
of course the decision to which they came was the decision of
the majority. But what was the case? After the House had
ri.en, the result of the agreement of that majority had been en-
tirely frustrated. The Right lion. Baronet had stated that his
opinion did not coincide with that of the nasj irity ; that it was
evident that there had been considerable :fifference in the Com-
mittee, and that, in his opinion, the minority were right, and
he hail acted upon that opinion. Such was the result cf the
review of a decision of a Committee. But in the case of a
Secret Committee the business becasoe much more involved
and difficult ; and in the case before them it was peculiarly so.
There was just reason to suppose that in the Com:nitiee a hish
sat to investigate the proceedings of the Post-office, there was
a very considerable difference of opinion. Indeed, it was very
likely that, at the conclusion of the discussion, they had not
came to any decision at all. They had been invested with
powers of the very highest order. They had been engaged
in an investigation which involved the privileges of the House
itself. Yet notwithstanding all this, and in a matter which
of all things the House ought to be made acquainted with, the
Government refused to tell the House what were the arguments
on which they acted, and he believed there was reason to think
that the Committee had come to no decision whatever. The
Government had asserted that the Committee had given a ver-
diet in their favour, and they left the House and the country
to come to the conclusion, that the grou ..ds of their acquittal
were sufficient. But this, in his (Lord Howick's) opinion,
was a very unsatisfactory mode of coming at a conclusion. A
difficulty had consequently been created, which nothing but
furtherinvestigation could remove ; but that, as his lion.
Friend the Member for Liskeard (Mr. C. Buller) had said,
would remove the whole difficulty. Why, then, refuse what
it was so easy to grant? The matter was now becoming abso-
lutely ridiculous.—( Hear.) Why did the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet refuse to say unckr what circumstances it was that he
had issued his warrant ? Would it not be better to say at
once that he bad issued the warrants? That he had issued
them under such and such circumstances; that he had acted
to the best of his judgment ; that he might possibly be wrong,
but that he intended to do right, and that having thus dis-
charged his duty, the House might then do as they think
proper. The Right Hon. Baronet said, that if he answered
this question he would be placing himself in a situation which
would oblige him to answer all the questions that might be put
to him. That might apparently be a sufficient reply for the
Bight lion. Baronet, hut for his (Lord Howick's) part he
must say that it weighed very little with him. Such a course
was, indeed, practically making it impossible to ascertain whe-
ther any injustice at any time had ever been committed. If
the Right Hon. Baronet kept these facts from the House,
how could it be possible for them to ascertain whether there
had been any improper abuse of the power which had
been confided to him? Under all the circumstances, he
thought that his Honourable Friend bad a clear right to
press for an elucidation. If that elucidation were obtained the
House would be in a proper position to limit this power in
future. If the Right Hon. Baronet persisted to refuse any ex-
planation of the reasons on which he had acted, he (Lord
Howick) could not conceive hat the refusal was tantamount
to anything but an._ acknowledgment that the letters of his
Hon. Friend had been opened, and he consequently could tile
no other course than to go out with his Hon. Friends on this
vote.—(Cheers and loud cries of" Divide, divide," from every
part of the House.)
Lord SANDON rose amid much confusion, and, after much
interruption said that he wished but to say one word as to the
conduct of the Committee of which he had been Chairman.
This was necessary from the remarks of the Noble Lord oppo-
site. He th aught that the Committee did not consider them-
selves invested with a discretion to investigate the right of the
existence of the power of opening letters or not. They did not
conceive that they had any right to investigate the difference
between political warrants and criminal warrants, but they con-
ceived that they were called upon to express their opinion as to
whether the power itself had been properly or improperly used--
whether the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the
Home Department had or had not misused the powers with
which he was invested. They went into the investigation, and
satisfied themselves that for the last twenty-four years every
Government had exercised these powers, and the decision to
which they had come had, in his opinion, pointed out the only
way to escape from the difficulty.—(Loud cries fer division.)
Mr. WARBURTON said that he did eos altogether differ
from the Noble Lord, but there was one point on which. he
did differ from him. The course pursued by the Committee
was that which they conceived would answer the require-
ments of the constitution and the country. There was no
point raised as to the intention of
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