The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-16 00:00:00

to occupy the stations which they at present maintainekin the
country, and that they should be secured in the enjoyment of
the property they possessed, but that at the same time due con-
sideration ought to be paid to the manufacturing interest.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM would not have risen at that late
hour to occupy the attention of the House, had it not been for
sonic pase,ages towards the conclusion of the speech of the
Right Honourable Gentleman, in which he had touched
upon certain topics, in such a manner that to use
his own expression, flesh and blood could not resist. —( Laughter.)
And here he must say that although he always felt the pro-
foundest respect for the orders of theßouse, and for the man-
ner in which the Speaker enjoined obedience to those orders,
yet he thought the present debate exemplified in a striking
manner the danger of departing from those rules in the most
seemingly unimportant matter. Here they were in the second
night of this debate, and what, he would ask, could be more
illogical than the coursk they were pursuing? A very large
body of those who had spoken on this subject, were decidedly
of opinion that no protection whatever should be given to the
landed interest, and their arguments went to show that any
protection, even to the least possible amount was un-
just, and ought to be immediately withdrawn.—(Loud cheers.)
But what was the question which was now under discussion ?
The motion of the Noble Lord was not for withdrawing all
protection from the landed interest. The motion distinctly
admitted the necessity, and the question they were discussing
was as to the mode in which that protection should be granted,
and the amount of that protection; and this question they
were discussing before they had decided the prel:minary qllek-
t,on whether any protection at all should be granted or not.
( Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the present
dangerous state of affairs, and to the fact of men being banded
against one another in classes. Allow him (Sir J. Graham)
to ask, who was really responsible for this state of affairs ?
( Loud cheers.) When the Government of which that Right
Hon. Gentleman was a Member came down to that House in
the month of June last, and announced to the people of this
country that the time had arrived, in their opinion, when 'it
was necessary that the Corn-laws should be revised ;
when the people were appealed to on the question
by a general election, was it possible to imagine that the
question would not be agitated from one end of the country to
the other? Was it not impossible, to use the words of the Noble
Viscount, the head of that Government, to suppose but that
the very foundation of the island would be shaken by such
a proposition from such a quarter ?—( Cheers.) The Right
lion. Gentleman said, that he and his colleagues, when they
brought forward their measure upon this subject, were
desirous of staying the further progress of this evil
by proposing their measure as a fair and reasonable compro-
mise ; and he ( Sir James Graham) would say that that was
Frecisely the nature of the proposition of his Right Hon.
riend. The Right Hon. Gentleman had asked what was the
object of the present motion. His Right Hon. Friend, in
bringing forward his motion had said that the object of it was
not the injury of some particular class, but that he and his
colleagues would not have brought it forward if they had not
felt convinced that it was for the good of the
community at large. He adopted the language of his Noble
Friend, the Colonial Secretary, as it had been quoted by the
Right Hon. Gentleman, that evening. He (Sir J. Graham)
would adopt the view which he (Lord Stanley) then took, and
would produce this measure as the lowest amount of duty they
thought consistent with adequate protection to native industry.
The Noble Lord who had brought forward this motion, and who
delighted in the use of antithesis—and, generally speaking, no one
used that figure of rhetoric more than the Noble Lord—had cha-
racterised the measure of his (Sir J. Graham's) Right Hon.
Friend as one which would concede yet not conciliate, would
disturb yet fail to settle. He (Sir J. Graham) thought the
description more applicable to the fixed duty, of which the
Noble Lord was the advocate.—( Cheers.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite seemed to dissent. He knew not if that
Right Hon. Gentleman had been present at the meeting which
had been held at Leeds about a year ago, and at which these
words were inscribed upon one of the banners—" A fixed duty
is a fixed robbery upon the people."—( Hear, and cheers.)
So much with regard to the principle which is to disturb, and
yet to settle.-(Hear, hear.) He did not know what the
Right Hon. tord Mayor of Dublin might say to it, for that
Right Hon. Member declared at a public meeting that the
fixed duty of Bs. was desirable on this ground, that it was an
instalment, which, if obtained, would lead them to the entire
repeal in six months.—( Hear, hear.) So much for the fixed
duty, which was to settle this matter.—( Hear.) In the ex-
perience of recent years, he ( Sir James Graham) had found
finality, in the times in which we lived, was a mere phantom.
He had been a fellow-student of. the Noble Lord in the
finality-school—(Laughter)—and he thought he bad some ex-
perience in that school.—( Laughter. ) He thought he
ad experience in bringing forward large measures--( Cheers
and laughter)—and larger measures than were thought prudent
or necessary—( Hear, hear, and a laugh)—but such as were
brought forward merely to stay further demands.—( Hear,
hear.) But he had profited by his experience.—( Cheers and
laughter.) He had always endeavoured to fulfil faithfully the
purpose with which those measures were brought forward.
But he had not been one of those who, having declared for
finality, brought forward again still larger measures—and
measures larger than were considered necessary.—( Hear, hear.)
In bringing forward the present measure with regard to the
Corn-laws, it was not hoped to put an end to further dis-
cussions of the question, or to further agitation.—( Hear, hear.)
But, throwing aside all views of finality, and all views of per-
manent conciliation, he should be prepared to support on this
occasion the measure which would concede what was due to
the consumer on the one hand, and preserve what was necessary
to the maintenance of the producer on the other.—( Cheers
from the Ministerial benches.) The Noble Lord (Lord John
Russell) had said that freedom of trade was the principle, and
protection an occasional exception to the rule. Now, he had
read a work from the pen of the Noble Lord, entitled "Memoirs
of the Affairs of Europe since the Peace of Utrecht." In that
book he found the Noble Lord's opinions expressed thus :
" That the first rule was general freedom of trade, but it
seemed clear that some exceptions must remain—that it was
clear that when the production of a particular article was ne-
cessary to the security of a State—(Cheers)—and when a par-
ticular branch of industry had been long protected, the protec-
tion must be taken away very gradually."—( Cheers. ) The
Hon. Members for Lambeth and Kendal cheered ; but he had
thought that they were free traders.—(Cheers and laughter. )
The Noble Lord, however, said in his book, that
he " thought the protection should be taken away
very gradually, lest the people employed in the
protected branch of industry should be suddenly reduced to
want."—(Cheers from the Tory benches.) The Noble Lord
in his speech of last night, had not been satisfied with sneering
at the principle thus laid down by himself in his own book ;
hut he thought it not beyond him to sneer at the great and
" inimitable invention which was called the sliding scale."
Now he ( Sir James Graham) had had the honour to serve
with the Noble Lord in the Cabinet of Earl Grey ; and he
had had the honour of voting with him in 1833, in favour of
that " inimitable invention."—( Hear and laughter.) The
Noble Lord ( Lord Palmerston) near him (Lord John
Russell) said that there was something slippery in the sliding
scale. But he (Sir J. Graham) would ask, was there not
something of lubricity in this project of a fixed duty ?—( Tory
cheers.) In his opinion there was, for, in June last, the late
Government was distinctly pledged to a fixed duty of Ss. a
quarter , and formed a final plan for fixing that dutys with a
view of not disturbing, but of settling the question ; and it was
brought forward as a measure on which the Government was
prepared to stand.—( Hear, hear.) Did it not appear from
that, that the Noble Lord, and the gentlemen who
were prepared to act with him, were prepared to slide
away from their former propositions ?—( Cheers.) He
thought that the Hon. Member for the Tower Hamlets abso-
lutely disclaimed the Bs. duty, and asserted that the Noble Lord
was not bound to it. The Noble Lord then had slipped away
from that.—( Cheers and a laugh.) " The Noble Lord," said
the Hon. Member for the 'rower Hamlets " was at liberty to
adoyt such a duty, as upon hearing the evidence, would appear
to be equivalent to the burthens of the agriculturists." So
much for finality. The Noble Lord proposed that
his duty was to be fixed until the price of
corn rose to 735. or 745, a bushel. That was to be the duty,
fixed, immutable and invariable. But yet, when the price
mounted up beyond that, the Noble Lord thought that the duty
ought to drop to one shilling.—( Hear, hear.) Whatever might
be said of the graduated scale applied a fortiori to that propo-
sition.—(Hear, hear.) He (Sir J. Graham had been very
much struck with a pamphlet referred to by the Noble Lord,
and written by a gentleman named Hubbard. He remembered
discussing that pamphlet with his Right Hon. Friend, and he
remembered saying that he agreed with it tip to the point where
the author coincided with the Noble Lord.—(l4ear, hear.)
Now, it was clear that this argument would be irresistible,
if it could be clearly shown that no foreign corn would be
brought into the home market till that point of price when
the Bs. duty fell to Is. should be attained. The Hon. Mem-
ber then read the following extract from the pamphlet of Mr.
Hubbard, to which he had referred :—" To establish a fixed
duty, with a reduction to be made contingent on the averages
reaching a certain price," the very proposal, be it observed, of
the Noble Lord, " would be to foster a grasping spirit in the
holders of corn as surely as the present varying system. In
the present year the price migh: have reached 90s. a quarter
in the months of September and October ; and why might it
..have risen ? Not because there was not a supply of foreign
corn in their warehouses which might have been profitably sold
at the prices then existing, but because the holders, re-
lying on the prices rising to such a point that the
fixed duty could not be maintained, the holders
would keep back their corn until an order in Council kindly
remitted the duty in order that they might exact the utmost
price." Now it would require no combination to effect this ;
It might be certainly and absolutely effected by a unanimity of
feeling in the dealers, and no blame would attach to them for it,
but the blame would fall on the system that allowed of it.
This argument was, in his opinion conclusive against either of
the plans suggested from the opposite side of the douse, either
of the plan for the admission of corn when its price reached a
certain amount, or that which permitted an order in Council
to be issued on the responsibility of Government. It had been
urged that salus populi, suprerna lex, and that the Govern-
ment ought to exercise a dispensing power over the law, and
deal with the question on its own responsibility. Now he was
satisfied that whoever would look at the past debates on the
Corn-laws, though they would find a great difference
on other subjects, yet they would find a great uniformity on
this point. That this was the question of all others on which
the Executive Government ought not to be armed with such a
power. If it lay with the Executive Government, it
would always be open to the suspicion of having been unduly
exercised ; and that the interference had either been too long
delayed, or too soon called into operation.—(Hear.) The
Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had referred,
he thought with considerable boldness, to the disputed autho-
rity of Mr. Huskisson on this subject. In the last speech of
Mr. Huskisson on this question, he certainly did appear to
throw some doubt over the principle of protection itself as
applied to corn.—( Hear.) But he would call to the at-
tention of the House that the passage, if it was rightly
understood and taken in connection with the circumstances
of the time, they could have no doubt but Mr. Huskisson re-
ferred to the preference he was disposed to give to the ori-
ginal Mr. Canning. Mr. Canning made two
the other in 1828, and he believed
propositions—onetli t proposalrHuski ssooifnn j 42
referred 37 to the latter of these two plans,
giving his decided preference to the original proposal of Mr. Can-
tt ,
the House
,t
hweasa opinionmatter
of surmise, and he would of
ning contrary to his plan of 1828. T
read
thoa
h
Mr. Huskisson, not taken at the distant period of 1814, but
when the subject was under discussion for the last time, and
he believed during the period when he was a responsible Mi-
nister of the Crown. The House would find that on

the 22d of April, 1828, Mr. Huskisson, not indirectly, but
directly, dealt on the question of a fixed duty, and said, " One

of the' Hon. Gentlemen opposite had spoken in favour of a
fixed duty ; now, abstractedly considered, this might be well
enough, but when they regarded the circumstance's of the
country and the wants of the people, they would see the impos-
sibility of adopting such a principle. If a high and permanent
duty were imposed, then in periods of scarcity the poor would
be exposed to suffering and misery which no claims of the
home grower to protection could ever justity. When legislat-
ing on this subject, therefore, they were bound to consider the
circumstances of the country and the wants of the people."
Could any Hon. Gentleman, then, atter this, doubt whe-
ther Mr. Huskisson was for a fixed duty or a
sliding scale, which was his own invention?--(Hear.)
Now, the Hon. 111emLer for Sheffield had asked what would
be the effect of the plan proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet
on the price of provisions ? To answer that question, he
thought it was necessary, in the first instance, to come to an
understanding as to what, in common years, would be thp
price at which foreign wheat conld be landed and placed in
bond, with all charges paid, In the British market, if that
question could be settled, or placed on any thing like a fixed
foundation, there would be no difficulty in giving the Right
Bat, Gautleman as explanation. To do this, he should not