The Sun.
London, England, 1818-03-04 00:00:00

CONDENINED SPANISH SHIPS.

Dr. PHILLIMORE wished to know whether it was the
pleasure of the ;louse that the motion, of which he had given
notice, should now he brought on.
Mr. AVILBERFORCE suggested the expediency of poSt-
ponino• the motion,: on account of the absence of an Hon.
Mezub'er of great weight in that House, who bad intended to
take a part in the Debate.

Dr. i"HELLINIORE was anxious to. say he had only been
prevented from bringing on the motion before by the pressure
of most important business. He naw wished to take that
Course which should he most agreeable to the House. He,
however, was inclined to postpone the' motion fo► the pre-
sent, but he wished it:to come on as early as possible.
Air. LYTTLETON thought the motion ought to be post-
poned.

Mr. WILBERFORCE thought it might bc well to postpone
it till Tuesday next. _

Dr. PHILLINIORE had only hesitated to pot it off on ac-
mint' of its having been preciously so frequently postponed.
The inotion was postponed till Tuesday.
The Amerierat Trade Bill was read a secoml time, and or-
dered to he committed on Monday, an,l to be printed.

AIIMY ESTIMATE,s.

Mr. A RBUTH NOT brought up the Report'of the
Committee of Supply.
Mr. LvITLEfoN did not mean at present to ob-
ject to the Resolutions contained in the Report,
but he.wi,hed to call the attention of the !louse
to our or two. points, which be thought of im-
portance. The practice of exacting from every
Of an affidavit before he received! his half-pay,
that he held no office of emolument under Go-
vernment, he thought ought to be dispensed
with, unless Cogent' reasons could be strewn for
retaining it. He also objected to the regula-
tion under which no Wi,tow possessing, from
other sources, an. income donble in amount to
the }tension to which the services of her husband
might give her claim could receive that pension.
it was hard that -the widow of an Officer who
badlosured his life fur an annuity tit 1001., and
paid for it sums
,which he could illspare',"Shotild,
on account of her clanit 'forfele.the 50!.
per annum to 'she' would under other 'cir-
cumstances have been entitled. He wished as
much as any-man for retrehinent ; but this was
not the economy which the HMISC and the coup,
y looked for at the hands of •Nliiisle'rs.
Loid PALMERSTON sail with respect to the afii-
da%it. it was required by the .:Appropriation Act,
so 'this •Was not. the occasion for Aisett'SSit'ig it 3
merits. Ile, however, at gued that it -cv,s justified
by the reason of the case, and the statements of
the Hononrable Gentletn.rit were not borne out
by analogy. The arrangement Complained -of
which regarded the IVidows' Pensions had the
recommendr;tion of the CoMmittee of Fitianct: in
the last Session of Parliament.

Sir C.' MoticK, as the Treaty of 1315 provided
that the lonian Isles should share the expense of
the garrisons and tips requisite to secure that
utilitaty possession which was necessary to the
protecting country, wished to know what propor-
tion of the expense they had borne ?
Mr. GouLßo RN stated a Constitutional' Body to
,have been funned in the 'lonian States, to raise.
the stuns necessary for the maintetfance of the
garrison 'of 3000 men to be kept up' there.
Mr. Lvvr4TotY wiShed to know 'What part of
the Report of the Comm it'tee which had'been men-
tioned., recommended the arrangement 'with re-
spect to the Widows' Pensions, Of which he (.Mr.'
Ly4tleton) had complained.
:Sir W. By ROUGus commented on the Report
generally, and compote(' the present estimates of
the present, the third year of peace, with those of
1792 and 1793, the last year of peace before the
French Revolution and the first 'year of war. The
whole of the force maintained for Great Britain
and Ireland, and the Isles of Jersey and Guernsey
in 1792, amounted to 27,701 'men; including of-
ficers. Now when there was less' daoger to be
apprehended, there was ati excess for` the home
service of 29,.'"26 men. The whole regular force
voted by Parliament for 1793, when the war had
broke out, Was 70,521 men. Over this there was,
on the total amount of the foree.now kept up at
.
the cOrnine.ncement of the third )tear of peace, an,
excess of 11,12 i men. He concluded by' moving,
as an amendment, that the total force be lin,ooo,
juStead of 11'3;000,
Mr. CURWEN thought the House must be
rinsed by the eloquent Speed) of his Hon. and
Learned Plielid'who spoke last. He insisted upon
the necessity of every possible retrenchment,. and
said the amendment had his cordial support.
Lord PA 1.51. IiSTON said, that without meaning
any disrespect to the Hon. Baronet (Sir W. Bur-
roughs), he did think it necessary to waste
the time of the Ilonse io.giVing any answer to
the thread-bare argiunents which. it contained.—
Thete was no p'arallel between the VatiOus pe-
riods mentioned • by the Hoir. BarOnet and the
present time, whet' the •circumstanct:s of the
country were so Much'Changeil, aiid the increase
in the pOpolation had increased the number of
turbulent spirits in the country.--(Hear, hear
front the Opposition.)
• Mr. CA LC RAFT -said; that the Noble Lord
who spoke last treated the arguments adduced
. •
against the amount of the proposed Peace' Estab-
lishment as if they bad been torn' to shreds ;
whereas, in truth, they reirraiired totally Unanswer-
ed.. He thought that; when it was eoltsideredhow
flattering; an account of the'tratiquir stay!. of Ire-
landdiad been last night'gieeo by the Right Hon.
.Gentleinan opposite' (Mr: it 'would be al-
lowed that a considerable reduction might be 'made
in the amOunt of force: for •Ireliind.
lteCUSeil Hon;'66l-itlemati "(Mr;

le raft 4) OF iArsliripreie Chit; What Veliatl last . t
said iespecting the state of Ireland, For althoot
Ate had ttafed Sonrcetof satiSfactioo
the (louse the inlet th.*State• of Iteland
notch iinpriteed, vet he had stated it as Isis declik.l
opinion that no'force of •a leas • an)oollt. c..an
'peollosed WaS compatible With the s,tety of lie-
:land; This waS*hiS-opinlon ; the opinion of othcr4
might he different. But certainly he Was more
cOnfihnedin his opinion *ben ite.conSidered that
the onlylerO NiernberS Who differed from it were
'the anuottrable'ti"entleman who Spoke last, anti
the lion. Waronet (Sir W.l3urrelq,-.,:hs)---two
-Jli:mbers than whom there were node who could be
more' perfectly ignorant•us to the stAt'e of Ireland;
anti 'consequently whOse ;opinion respecting_ the.
amount of'' force which the present. si(1136,111 4
that country reqtrired, was lik•ely to be Of sci
tveight.--(Heal', heir woohl-he'-agrerd
till hands that nothing could he more inittrioni or
unsate than. a sudden reduetion in the iniiitaty
lot ce in Ireland,
.and he was sure that the 1-101.15 e
would be of Opinion, that no further reduction'iti
the military'force.in Ireland beytind that thittie
the present estimate, was consiStent With the in-'
term-ll:security of that country. •
Sir Josue NENVratiT felt bound to. express .bit
sense of the Obligations which- were 'tine to the
Itig,ht lion. Getitletrian (Mr. Peei)'for the 'course
of policy which he had purSued with reSp`ec.e,ttt
Ireland; in substituting.the civil for the military
authority in the preservation Of the peace of Aar
country. The. lednction of the military force-ill
that country Should be gradual and,,prOgresive,
for it could nOt be doubted that any ludden-iitiAlt.
donment of the policy hitherto actett'OpOn've•ntslri
be productive of very bad conseqUeirees.
thought that with respect to the. Cblonies; they
should be made to conirihnie at least iii•sothe'Re;-
gree to the support of the furce Maintained for
their protection. . .
_ .

-Mr. MARRYATT said that the circumstances of
the Colonies were such, that feW or none of theni
were capible of maintaining the inirtUry forte tfo-
- for their protection.
Mr. BROUGtIAM said that the burden of thi.
proof why the inilitary establishment tit th‘
present year should he one battalion greatir
than that Of 1792, lay not upon those who thought
with him that there should be no increase. but
upon those who proposed the increase. Witft
respect to the state of Ireland, he alluded to the
claims of-tha- Roman Catholics, and the state o.f
disqualiscatiou in which they were kept, as heim:
the catise why that country nOw reunited a large
military force. lie hoped, 116wever, that 'thy:
policy which rendered the maintenance of ihiA
force necessary would he abandoned. On the
whole question, he expressed touch regret that
so little attention was given to the Amy
mates. He gave the amendment- his cordial sup-.
port.
Sir 3. NEWPORT and Mr. BaouGHAta mutually'
explained.

Lord CasTLEßeaort could not allow the flues--
lion to go to a division without saying a few?
words. It was not front not feeling the great im-
portance of the queStion' that he had not sooner ,
offered himself to the attention of'the House, bat
because•he had•heard'uothing Urged in the coslrse
of the tlebaiVibien as an_ argnment t.gainst the
proposed establishment ; and be. referred -t-.0 tt e,
thinness rmf the House on'the preSent- OCCa,itni as
evincing a feeling, that after the previous distos,a.
sions, the opiAons of most Menibers seemed tr)
be quite Settled as to the necessity Of the amount
of force proposed. The Honourable and Learned
Gentleman (Mr. Brougham), wished to htez.
the year 179'2 as fixing the standard, accotil."
ing to which the -estimates of the pres,ettg-,
year sliould be t eplated.—NQw, i+cith respr:ct
to the establishment of 1792, he begged the
House to recollect that Mr. Pit!, in that year,
when he proposed- the estimates, stated, that
he hail framed -them on a• prospect of a long
period of profound peace, In this it urtlrap-
pilY- proved -that Mr. Pitt was mistake'' ;Afor
the war broke out the very next year ; atael
the consequence of the lowness of the esta
blishthent in the year 1792, was, that -thi*
country suffered very much from. an extreme
..de-
gree of military feebleness during the first years of
the war. Thelion. Baronet (Sir W. Burroughs)
thought that eve could do at present with a farce
of Io,ooomen less than that in theEstimatesibuC
then he forgot to state the particular quarter ill
which the reduction was•to be made. Was it really
seriously said that any reduction could be matleiii,
the. 26,000 men to be kept up for the hoi.ne
service ? In which part Of the Home Establish"
:trent would the Honourable Baronet • make his re-
duction ? Not less than 11,000 men- were re'
qttired for the service of tire metropolis•aad the
clock-yards, and could 16,000 be sufficient for tba;
Of all' England ? • lie concluded by assuring.thss
House that Ministers intended to make every pos'
sible redaction which would not be inconsisiCilt

With the interests-. and safety of the country.,-,
M. BRotiGnANI Mid Lord CAsTLERgAGH lllu
explained.
11.1 r 111°11;1)1 that the present vote•vca*
hrger than the •neeessi,y of the case required'
Last year, front the agitated state of the countqf
he had not thuttgbt aoy 'reduction could safely b°
made its the-force propo•ed for England ; but Roc'
t hat order end trautiaillity-otte•more prevailed, I,t('
was of a .41i11.erent- opinion.• A to the army it,t
ireland, he svislted it to: lie reduced gradually.
The Ilotre,.tiven divided.
• For the original 1
'For the Atneadinent 27
.Majority for tilt, Mutitin-84
The other'llesolutions -were them agreed to, and Bills of'
:der,h,ceurdingiv.
I)Ce Mutiny, t'lle West India Trade. Regulation, and "th.:
Madder Duty were sera!ly introduced, read a6P
add or,*red for'a second reading toniorrOw, • -
Adjourne,i,