The Sun.
London, England, 1829-05-06 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(LAST NIGHT.)

A Ballot being held on the Dover Election Petition,
the Gallery was not open till a Quarter to Five.
Mr. HUME ►nowed that it be a standing order of the
House that a clear day's notice should be given of the third
reading of every Private Bill. The motion was agreed
Mr. DYSON brought up the names of the Committee
on the Dover Election petition. They were as follows
The Hon. J. Boyle, Mr. W. R. Colborne, M. H. War-
burton, Mr. J. B. Monck, Mr. J. J. Guest, Mr. E. W.
Pendarves, Mr. H. Howard, Mr. R. A. Dundas, Mr. V.
Tennyson, Lord Brecknock, and Mr. C. F. Palmer.
Mr. MOORE presented a petition from the Silk
Throwsters of the city of Dublin, praying that they may
be remunerated for the loss of their machinery and trade
by the reduction of the duty on thrown silk.
Mr. MOORE presented a petition from the Chamber
of Commerce of Dublin, against the Auction Duties Bill.
Mr. SEYMOUR presented a petition fro n William
Drinkhorn, of Somersetshire, a silk-throwster, against the
Silk Duties Bill ; also a similar petition from another
silk-throwster in the same county.
Lord DARLINGTON presented a petition from the
Graziers attending Smithfield Market, against the Bill foe
the removal of Smithfield Market.
After a few words from Mr. CARTWRIGHT and Sit'
EnwAan KIIATCHBULL, the Bill was ordered to lie on the
table.

Mr. HUME presented a petition from the Corporation
of Goldsmiths, of the city of Edinburgh, against the
Gaol Bill (Scotland.) The Hon. Member felt anxious to,
know from the Learned Lord opposite, what the course
was which he meant to pursue with respect to this Bill.
The Royal Burghs of Scotland would have great reason to
complain of the assessments which would be made upon
them if this Bill passed into a law, and they were therefore
anxious to know what course the Learned Lord intended to
adopt.
The LORD ADVOCATE said, that the course he
intended to pursue was this :-.—to have the Bill read a se-
cond time, and then to refer it to a select committee,
composed of gentlemen connected with Scotland, to con-
sider of its provisions, after which it would return to the
House, to be passed into a law this Session,—for he was
extremely unwilling to delay a measure of such import-
ance for another year.
Mr. FERGUSSON said he thought that the Royal
Burgh of Scotland bad no reason to complain, for by this
Bill they would be relieved from a great part of the ex-
pense which was imposed upon them under the provisions
of the old law. The landed interest of Scotland had
greater reason to complain, for they were saddled with an
expense, which was thus placed upon them contrary to the
constitution of Scotland.

Mc. H. DRUMMOND believed that the opposition
among the Royal Burghs to this Bill was very general,
and he hoped the Learned Lord woull well consider before
he pressed a Bill which was also so unpopular.
After a few words from Mr. HUME and Mr. FERous-
SON, in explanation, the petition was ordered to be printed.

Mr. HUME moved fur the number of surcharges made
by each and every surveyor during the year 1828. The
Hon. Member said that his object was to show the annoy-
ance of these taxes to the public, the distressed state of the
country, and the necessity of repealing a part of them.
Mr. WARBURTON brought in a Bill for suppressing

the unlawful disinterment of bodies for dissection. He
also presented petitions from the Surgeons of Norwich,
and from a medical society of Monmouth, praying for faci-
lities for acquiring surgical knowledge.
Mr. STEWART presented a petition from the Com-
missioners of Supply of the county of Lanark, praying
for delay in any alteration in the Scotch Law of Entail, in
order that a sufficient investigation might take place., He
also presented a petition from the same parties, prating for
a postponement of the Bill for the Enlargement of Scotch
Gaols. _ _

Sir G. COCKBURN brought in a Bill for transferring
the management of the Greenwich Out-pensioners.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH then rose to move for a Select
Committee on the claims of Mr. O'Reilly on the East
India Company.
The motion was put and carried.
EAST RETFORD.

Mr. G. LAMB presented a petition from certain free-
holders of East Retford, praying that pending the proceed-
ings against the Borough, it might not be deprived of its
representation, but that a new writ should be issued imme-
diately. The Lion. Member had expressed his conviction
of the delinquency of the Borough, and that conviction
remained unchanged ; but he still felt it his duty to sup-
port the prayer of the petition. The petitioners stated that
a majority of the voters of the Borough were perfectly in-
nocent of corruption, and they were willing to prove the
fact by oaths at the har of the House.
Mr. LITTLETON could not conceive with what pro-
priety the Hon. Member could call upon the House to con-
sent to issue a writ for a Borough, which they had by a
very large majority declared totally ❑nworthy of being
trusted with the right of representation. If they consented
to issue a new writ, they would stand convicted of the
most gross inconsistency in the eyes of the country. He
agreed with the Secretary of State (Mr. Peel), who hail
done himself the highest honour in being the first Minister
of the Crown to decide in that House that the elective
franchise was a trust held for the benefit of the cotnmu•
nity, and that those who held it were responsible for its

exercise, and justly deprived of it when they viol ited it.
He would beg his Hon. Friend, the Member for Bletch-
ingly, if he could, to persuade his Friend, the Member for
Hertfordshire, to postpone this business for the present
Session. Nobody could suppose by this that his (Mr.
Littleton's) opinion was altered. He could assure the
House that the delay had only strengthened the view he
had of the guilt of the Borough. But it was vet y well
understood that the Session could not be prolonged very
materially; and it was therefore impossible fur the ques.
Lion to he decided during the Session.
Mr. TENNYSON was aware that there was but little
prospect of bringing the subject to any conclusion during
the present Session, but could not accede to postpone it
upon the terms proposed by his Hon. Friend, the Member
for Duogarvon.

Mr. N. CALVERT said that if the Borough of East
Retford were deprived of its franchise, he should move the
extension of it to the adjoining Hundreds.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought it inconsistent to move

for a niew writ for East Retford this Session, after the course
which the House had taken with respect to other Borough,.
They had been told that in the event of their entertaining
any measure with respect to East Retford, it would be sure
to be impedel in the other House. If such were the ca,e,
let the other House bear the blame, and responsibility . est
with their Lordships, or with Ministers, as it would mo
pltuperly do. Again, they were told that the Sessic
was likely to be so short that no effectins measure could IN

introduced. But ber^ nrra;n the blame would rest with
Governrre3t, and nut with that House. Let the House of
Commons (10 its duty, and the responsibility of delay or
pretractiun would rest with the Government.
Mr. DUNCOMI3E did hope and trust that as well for
the sake of these more immediately eonn:ected, as of the
interests of the country, the subject would not be
protracted beyond the present Session.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. ESTCOUBT thnught it would be impolitic and
unjust to introduce the measure in the caurse of the pre-
tcr,t Session.

Mr. H. GURNEY thought it would be hitter to wait
'until the next session rather ►han enter into the discussion
at so late a period of the year as at present.
Mr. Secretary PEEL was not aware that any iinputa-
ai,,o cotilil be cast upon his Majesty's Ministers, with re-
ileet to this motion ; and if such imputation was cast,
he inust say tiat it was totally unfounded. It was quite
dear to Hon. Members, that the early pact of this Session
id been a peculiar one, and fat med no established rule ;
it had been altotrether occupied in disposing of the great
Question of Catholic Emancipation.—(Hear, hear.)—
There was great difficulty in considering the question of
siisfrauchising the borough of East Retford, and transferring
tie representation to some other town. He had e petlect
mcoileetien of the manner in which the East Danford Ques-
tion was brought before the House. It came under their
consideration in -the shape of a petition, complaining of
liril,ery and corruption. The case went to a Committee,
who reported that the candidates had been guilty of treat-
ing ; but there was no other charge of bribery or corrup-
tion rrove•l.
Mr. BROUGHAM elys,erved, that there Wers._, tiro
cliarge,s of bribery and corruption proved.

. .
Mr. Secretary PEEL was aware, that in the preamble
Bill the words bribery and corruption were u•ed ;
hut he believed that the election had been set aside on the
gi ound of treating, The Right Hon. Gent. proceeded to
come extracts from the Report rf the Committee,
from whieh it appeared that the electors were in the habit
ref receiving 20 guineas foe a single vote, and those who
vette! for both candidates received 40 guineas. Upon that
'Report it was revolved, that Mr. Speaker should not issue
hi 4 writ for a new election until time was granted fur
ter:ber inquiry. Upon that occasion the House had come
to a decision, that the corrupt state of the borough of
East Retford was Mich as to require serious investigation ;
but the difficulty lie felt was that of being able to enter
effectually into that investigation during the present
Seision. Ile wished that there had been an opportunity
of introducing this subject early in the Session ; but a,
that had not been the case, he trusted it would-be allowed
to stand over to next year. If, however, the Hon.
Member persevered in pressing his motion, he hoped the
lien. Mernher fir Hertfordshire (Mr. N. Calvert) would
introduce Ibis Amendment—that of growing open the
right of voting to the Hundred of Bassetlaw ; that
measure he would suppelt.
Sir C. FORBES observed, that if every Borough in
coach corruption existed were to be disfranchised, he feared
they would hrie but a thin House of it.—(Hear.)
Sir T. P. ACLAND thought it most advisable that the
question with respect to East Retfurd should be postponed
next Session of Parliament.
Mr. Alderman WAITH3IAN had made up hif mind to
vote for transferring the Elective Franchise from East Re-
cord to Manchester, Birmingham, or some other large
town.—(Hear.) He differed altogether with the Hon.
slembcr for Ilertforshire ; and begged to observe, that
sooner than extend the right of voting to the Hundred of
lass.-tlasv, he would consent to restore it to the Borough
cf East Retford again. He hoped the Hon. Member fur
Hertfordshire would weigh the question maturely in his
mind ; and that, under ail the circumstances of the case, it
would be allowed to stand over to next Session.

Ihe petition was then brought up. Upon the question
that it be read,

Mr. TENNYSON was desirous of putting it to the
Eight Hon. Gentleman opposite, as to whether he thought
there was any probable chance of carrying such a measure
tlimugh both Houses during the present Session ; because,
if there was not, it would be madness in him to take up
the time of llon. Members uselessly.—(Hear.)
Mr. Secretary PEEL, in answer to the Hon. and
',Yarned Member, he had only to speak with reference to
other Bills of this nature. The Penryn Disfranchisement
Bill was introduced on the Ist of April, and was not dis-
posed of until the 29(11 of May. The Grampound Dis-
franchi,cment Bill was introduced into the House of Lords
on the 20th of March, 1821, anti it was not disposed of
until the 21.411 of May; so that in the other House one
Bill occupied nine weeks, and the other seven weeks.

Colonel WOOD said it should be recollected that there
was a great accumulation of business in the House of Lords
towards the close of the Session.

Mr. 0. CAVE trusted the Hon. Gentleman would per-
Fist in his determination.

The petition was then brought up. On the motion that
it be laid on the table,

Mr. G. LAMB wished only to say that he had not im-
puted any blame to the Hon. Member for the delay which
had taken place—that delay had arisen from peculiar cir-
cumstances. and not from the dilatoriness of the Hon.
illemher—hut that was no alleviation of the hardship to
the Boroue.
Mr. LIDDELL was favourable to the postponement of
the discussion to another Session.

Mr. P. THOMSON thought it would be highly in-
convenient to postpone the discussion, as the country was
looking up to them for a decision of the question.
An Hon. Miotsza, whose name we could not learn,
said, that further delay would give the inhabitants of East
Retibrd good reason to address the House agiin with
petitions.

&r C. FORBES—I think the time of this House will 1.
have been much misapplied, if we are thus to get rid of
this impot taut question for the third time, and in the third
Se•sion of Parliament. It is altogether an extraordinary
proceeding. It is very well got up.—(A 1 iugh.)—The
parts are well played on both sides.—(Laughter.)—l
know I must admit that I am one of the players.—(Hear,
rind laughter.)-1 don't deny it; but I have played my
part conscientiously, without favour or affction to this
side or the other side of the House, to the Ins or to the
Outs.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. BROUGHAM—I am no party to the play in
which the Hon. Member oppesite says he has borne no
part, in which he has neither joined this nor that side of
the House.—(Sir C. Forbes—Nor any indiveedual in it)
—nor any indiveeducl in it—!Laughter)—and when the
Hon. Member takes on himself to say that he has no
doubt there is a general juggle, of which he accuses all
around him, in order completely to get out of the way
this great and important question, by getting it postponed
in. another annual period, I have no manner of doubt,
that in two minutes by that clock, he will be proved to be
completely and entirely mistaken. Don't let him, however,
suppose (though I am very sorry to dispel the flattering
illusion) that his interference, or the observations be has
made on the conduct if all parties, have had any the very
slightest effect in producing the frustration of his own
confident prediction; for I can inform him that, before he
uttered one word of that sweeping accusation, which he
directed against all parties, my Hon. and Learned Friend
the Member for Bletchingley, was a competitor with him
for the right of addressing the House, in order to declare
that he had made up his mind to proceed with this ques-
tion.—(Hear, hear.)

Mr. TENNYSON observed, that having taken all the
pains he could to ascertain the sense of the House en this
question, lip should persist in his motion.

- The notate of motion was then read.
EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT
Mr. TENNYSON, in bringing forward his motion
trusted it might be allowed to rest on its own merits. He
trusted that the time had now arrived when the Govern-
ment would allow the House to decide this question, on the
same principles as those upon which the administrations
of Mr. Canning and Lord Liverpool had—the one in 1821,
the other in 1827—decided the cases of Grantham and of
P.-nryn—mmely, as an open question. But, whatever
might be the decisiOn of the Right Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
site on this point, he (Mr, Tennyson) disclaimed the ques-
tion as a party one. It was unfit for a party question. and
ought to be submitted to the fair decision of the House ;
and in whatever light the Right Hon Gentleman might
look upon the question, he (Mr. Tennyson) introduced it
in no hostility to him. He adhered steadily to the propo-
sition which he submitted to the House in the last Session
of Parliament, and its 1827,—namely, to transfer the fran-
chise, which East Retford had forfeited by delinquency to
the unrepresented town of Birmingham ; and he thought
he might venture to assume that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man hail no insurmountable objection to such a proposi-
tion, as he had pledged himself to acquiesce in it, provided
Parliament should agree to extend the franchise of the
borough of Penryn to the neighbouring hundred. No man
could disguise from himself that the time was not far dis-
tant when the Parliament would be compelled to give the
choice of representatives to all the large manufacturing
towns. Was the House to wait until that second act of
justice should be wrested from it ? He thought he might
venture to say, without fear of contradiction, that it was
the general opinion of this nation that by some means or
other the right of representation should: be awarded to
those great unrepresented places. For all these reasons he
begged to submit his
;motion to the House, for leave to
bring in a Bill to exclude the boroulh 4 East Retford
rota electing burgesses _to serve in Parliament, and to

enable the town of Birmingham to return two represen-
tatives in Parliament in lieu thereof
Mr. J. MARSHALL aeconded the motion.

Mr. N. CALVERT had no objection that the manufac-
turing town of Birmingham should possess the right of re-
presentation, but he objected to that town possessing the
right at the expence of East Retford-.
Mr. WILBRAIAAM said that flit 41testiori.iirow before
the Houle steed en a' i.'ty different footing from that 'on
which it was placed last Session. At that time they had
reason to believe that two boroughs would be prevented
from sending Members to Parliament; and though he
could not entirely concur in the proposal which the Right
Hon. Secretary for tire Home Department then made, of
transferring the franchise of one of those boroughs to a
manufacturing town, and giving the other to the landed
interest, yet he must confess the proposition was specious,
and, considering the situation in which the Right llon.
Gentleman stood, more, perhaps, could not not be ex •
petted from him. But the question stood now on a very
different footing. The House was at present bound by no
treaty like that to which he had just alluded. There was
no double case, but the question was simply the
event cf the borough of Retford being disfranchised, shall
the right of sending two Members to Parliament be trans-
ferred to the town of Birmingham, or to the hun-
dred of Baseetlaw Was it, he asked, just or politic to
withhold the elective franchise from great towns, for no
other reason than because they had not heretofore possessed
it? That the landed interest was fully represented in that
House was quite evident ; that the great manufacturing
towns were not represented at all, was equally dear. The
proposition of the Hon. Member for Hertfordshire went,
in fact, to diminish tl,e constituent body of England ; for
he proposed to give the franchise to the hundred of Has-
setiawa *which was already sufficiently represented. le
• begged to ask what were the elements of the eon-,
stituent body ? Were they net numbers, wealth,
and intelligence ? The population and wealth of Bir-
mingham it was unnecessary to irisist upon, and he be-
lieved that it contained some hundreds of persons who
possessed quite as much intelligence as the worthy electors
of the hundred of Ba-setlaw. Yet, this simple mode of
removing the existing blot on the representative system—
namely, the transfer of the forfeited franchise to liirming-
ham,—was to be passed by, because it was said to be a
measure cf Parliamentary Reform. He regretted the blow
which was struck against the principle of reform, more
particularly on account of the hand whence it proceedtd,
and the support it was likely to receive from a body of gentle-
men whose opinions on other subjects he much respected.
The Marquis of BLANDFORD opposed the motion.
Mr. WOOD expressed his intention to give the motion
his decided support.
Mr. G. BANKES complained that Hon. Members
were arguing the question on general principles, without
reference to tire particular evidence applicable to the pecu-
liar case. The House were bound to decide judicially on
the question, with reference to the evidence which had
been brought before them. On that principle he was in-
clined to give his preference to the proposition of the Hon.
Member fur Hertfordshire. The impression of his mind
was, that the evidence was not of a nature to justify the
complete removal of the franchise from East Itetford ; but
he thought that, by adopting the proposition of the Hon.
Member for Hertfordshire, justice would be satisfied, and
ample punishment inflicted.
Lord NORNIANBY concurred in the prrpos.tion of the
lion. Member (Mr. Tennyson). That the House had a
might to regulate the franchise of boroughs according to
circumstances, would not be denied. They had seen an
exercise of that right on a recent occasion, when Parlia-
ment took away the right of a whole body of electors in
the sister kingdom, against whom nothing had been
proved but an independent exercise of their franchise.
Without going into the question as to whether the House
spoke the sense of the people, which had been brought for-
ward by the Nohle Marquis (o(Blandford), he must say
that the argument of the Noble Lord did not apply to the
case of East Retford ; in that case bribery had been most
clearly made out against the majority of the electors. It
was proved there, that a candidate was judged of, not by
the weight of his principles, but by the weight of his
purse. It was therefore a case in which Parliament was
called upon to interfere. As a Parliamentary reformer he
was anxious to get what he could, for he knew that the
majority of that House was against reform ; but that was
no reason why they should not encourage such motions as
this, where a clear case of gross corruption had been esta-
blished.

Mr. BATTLEY opposed the motion.
Mr. FERGUSSON had examined the evidence in this
case with much attention, and felt satisfied that the alleged
guilt was proved. He was sorry that this should be made
a party question, for be was unwilling that any measure
should be introduced which could tend to embarrass a Mi-
nistry to which the country owed so great a debt of grati-
tude as to the present; but, without having any such in-
tention, he must support the motion.
After a few words in explanation from Mr. G. BANKES
which were not heard in the gallery,
Mr. LIDDELL said he was sorry to be obliged to vote
against the Government, to which he admitted so much
was due, for their recent wise and generous conduct ; but
he was sure the time would arrive when he should dwell
with great satisfaction on his present vote.
Mr. LUMLEY opposed the motion, on the ground that
there was not sufficient evidence to support it.
Sir J. YORKE said, that although only very lately a
reformer, yet on the question of East Retford, the evidence
on which he had read with attention, he thought there
could he no question that it ought to be disfranchised. He
bad also come to the conclusion,—and that on the reason-
ing of the Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Depart-
ment,—that the franchise ought net to be transferred to a
narrow district, but to some large town ; and, as Bir-
mingham had been named, he would say, let it be Bir-
mingham. Every man hid his view of reform; but as the
new ga.-light had broken in upen his old oil-light, he
would say, that if there was to be a teform, there could
not be a better than exchanging from a corrupt small bo-
rough to a large and populous town.

Mr. Alderman WA ITI 1111 AN next addressed the House,
amidst incessant coughing, which rendered the commence-
ment of his speech quite inaudible in the gallery. He was
understood to say that he should support the transfer of
this franchise to the town of Birmingham, and not to the
neighbouring hundred. He would rather send it back
again to East Retford than consent to transfer it to the
hundred of Bassetlaw.

Mr. WYNN said, that upon a full consideration of the
case, he was convinced that gross, habitual, and long con-
tinued corruption had been established against the borough
of East Retford. He had never conceived that in cases of
this kind the House was bound to have specific evidence
against a majority of the electors. If the present were a
penal, instead of a remedial Bill, he should say that the
House was bound to observe all the rules of evidence
adopted in Courts of Justice. But in this case the delin-
quent was not an individual, but a borough. By favour
of his Hon. Friend behind him, he had seen the petition
which had been presented from the burgesses of East Ret-
ford. It was a very curious document ; anti he had no-
ticed that there was an erasure in it affecting a point of
such deep interest as the number of voters in the borough
of East Retford. The petition stated that there were in
that borough 213 voters,—and the figurea 213 were writ •
ten upon an erasure. He could not help connecting in his
own mind that erasure with the object which the peti-
tioners wished to accomplish by their petition. They
called themselves a majority of the burgesses of the place
and of how many persons did the House think that this'
virtuous majority consisted ? Of 107 exactly. So nicely
were the scales balanced, that there were 106 corrupt,
and not more than 107 uncorrupt electors in the borough 1
of East Retford.—(A laugh.)—The evidence however was
strong as to the general expectation and feeling of corrup-
tion in that borough ; and the question for the House to de-
cide was, whether it was satisfied that the borough was
so generally corrupt, that there was no probability that it
would ever discharge its functions fairly in future. He
had no difficulty in proceeding with the borough of East
Retford, on account of its corruption being so great and
undeniable; and indeed upon that point the House had
long since decided. The question, therefore, for their pre-
sent consideration was, whether it would be most bene-
ficial to the country to throw into the hundred of Baseet-
law the franchise which the House had decided should not
be left with the burgesses of East Retford, or to transfer it
to the large and unrepresented town of Birmingham. He
should certainly vote in favour of the proposition of the
Hon. Member for Bletchinglev.
Mr. HUSKISSON next addressed the House. He was
understood to say, that having always been an opponent
of Parliamentary reform, he approached with little satis-
faction any subject calculated to bring that question into
a prominent point of view. Protesting, therefore, in the
first place, against any revision of the representative sys-
tem of this country, he admitted that when a place like
East Retford had been guilty of gross, habitual, and long-
continued corruption, when that corruption was brought
to light, and when the proof of it was placed clearly be-
fore the House of Commons, it had no other alternative
but to apply a remedy to specific evil which had been
hroughtunder its consideration. Further than the declara-
tion which he had just made, he was not prepared to go.—
He should be wasting the time of the House most unpar-
donably if he should go through the evidence to establish
the general corruption which prevailed in East Retford.
It was sufficient to state the caudidates for that borough

were never called upon to make any declaration of their
political principles. The only declaration t principle
which the burgesses of that place expected from a candi-
date was his .declaration that lie would do " what was
just and right" according to the custom of the borough.
That declaration he fulfilled, if lie gave the electors their
40 gninea.i and ii was in evidence that tile return-
ing officer of the boroUgh, the aldermen of the borough,
and even the town clerk himself, had, participated in these
corrupt transactions. The question then before the House
was, how should they deal with the franchise which the
electors of East Retford had forfeited ; and they were
now called upon to determine whether they would transfer
it to some large unrepresented town like Birmingham,
or Whether they would pursue the course which they
had pursued in thy case of Grampound, when they had
transferred it to a county, or whether they would enlarge
the franchise by admitting into it those persons who were
already entitled to vote for the county of Nottingham, and
who were situate in the adjacent hundred of Bassetlaw.
He had heard with regret the declaration made by his
Right Hon. Friend that evening, that he should give
his decided support to this last proposition, which
came before the House as the amendment of the Honour.
able Member for the county of Hertford. He conceived
that this support was to be given with all the just sup-
port and authority of his Majesty's Government ; and
lie had therefore no doubt but that his Right Honourable
Friend would be successful. lie should regret that suc-
cess, because it would not be in unison with the senti-
ments of the community at large; he should regret that
success, because be was convinced that it would increase
in the public mind the feeling which already misled in fa-
vour of parliamentary reform : he should regret that suc-
cess, because lie felt that it would ensure the adoption of a
course which must pave the way for so fatal a measure as
a general parliamentary reform. He would take the li-
berty of informing his Majesty's Ministers that he had
thought it possible that, looking to the arguments which
they had formerly produced upon this question, they might
have changed their policy upon it, from a consideration of
the state of public feeling, and of the march of events
within the last year. When he talked of the march of
events, he thought that lie might perhaps ha allowed to
recall them shortly to the recollection of the House.—
About this time two years the Hon. and Learned Member
for Winchilsea crossed the floor of the House, to the great
surprise of the country, and took up his seat in a corner at
the back of the Treasury-hench. That Hon. and Learned
Gentleman—the le-tder, he might call him, of a great party
in that House, for on that occasion many Hon. Members
followed him—had no sooner made good his situation in
that outwork, generally so well and so cautiously guarded,
than

some time quite inaiptible in the gallery when lie was
again audible, he was proceeding to this efiectl—As soon
as they (we do not know to whom the Right Honourable
Gentleman alladed) had recovered from their breath•
less alarm, the House was told that they saw in this
movement of the Honourable and Learned Member
for Winchilsea the earnest of a great change which
was shortly to be accomplished among political
parties. They considered that it involved consequences
the most alarming—they saw in it the repeal of the Test
and Corporation Act—they saw in it the settlement of the
Catholic claims—they saw in it nothing less than the ac-
complishment of Parliamentary reform. The Session
ended, however, without any of the points being either
carried or assailed. At the opening of the next Session
the Hon. and Learned Member for Winchilsea had re-
turned to his old place on the opposite benches. New
leaders had been appoiuted.—(Here again the Hon. Mem-
ber was for some time perfectly inaudible.)—When next
we heard him, he was stating that the fact was, that early
in the ensuing Session, after a very feeble resistance, and
on the very first summons, the Test and Corporation Acts
were given up. In the present Session, the Catholic
question had been granted without the slightest sutnmons,
and on conditions more favourable than any which had ever
been previously thought of. Now what remained be-
hind ?—Parliamentary reform. He trusted that it would
long remain behind. He hoped that the House would
always resist it firmly and strenuously.—(Hear.)—He
was sure that if the House adopted the proposition of his
Hon. Friend the Member for Bletchingley, the chance of
its making a successful resistance to Parliamentary reform
would be increased ; but that if it adopted the proposition
of the Hon. Member for the county of Hertford, it would
see Parliamentary reform, backed by a powerful auxiliary
out of that House—he meant public opinion—made an
annual question of discussion. It was on grounds like
these that lie was anxious to give his support to the pro-
position of his Hon. Friend the Member for Bletchingley.
He should not condescend to argue this question as a ques-
tion between the landed &sad the commercial interests
of the country. It was to him matter of wonder that
any man could suppose that the character of the House
would be changed by giving this franchise either to
the hundred of Bassetlaw or to the town of Birtninghatn.
He objected to the distinction which some Hon. Members
were drawing between the landed and the commercial in-
terests. He contended that the history of this country,
and more emphatically the history of Ireland, proved that
it was on the co-operating industry and success of the
commercial interest that the prosperity of the landed in-
terest mainly rested. Destroy the energies of commerce,
and your land will soon fall into that unproductive state in
which it was before this great stimuli to improvement
were created. It had been stated as a justification of the
course which Government had resolved to follow upon this
subject, that the two Houses of Parliament were divided
in opinion as to the best mode of dealing with forfeited
franchises, and that this had been adopted, as forming a
middle course, on which both could agree. Ile admitted
it to he true, that in the present question the two Houses
of Parliament were divided in opinion. The House of
Commons had shown by its votes, on more than one oc-
casion, that it was of opinion that the great manufactur-
ing towns of the country, which were unrepresented, ought
to be represented. It had sent up Bills in which that opi-
nion was formally avowed, to the other House of Parlia-
ment. The other House of Parliament differed from
them ; and up to this time both Houses seem firmly at-
tached to their respective opinions. His Right Honour-
able Friend (the Home Secretary) was not unfriendly
to the principle which he (Mr. Huskissoo) sup-
ported ou this measure ; and, therefore, he was the
more surprised to find him supporting the amend-
ment of the Honourable Member fur Hertfordshire.
As to the great question which had just been settled in
.a
free state, and where popular assemblies prevailed, those
who supposed that the adjustment of a measure which had
so fiercely agitated and led popular excitement for 25 years
would settle all conflicting differences, would find them-
selves mistaken,—at least if they thought that the great
measure being disposed of, no other was likely to arise for
embodying public agitation and excitement. There were
those topics still unsettled which must be heard, and must
in due course be determined. It was very difficult, in-
deed impossible, to look at the dangerous condition of the
manufacturing districts without reflecting upon the evils
which must be contingent upon the associations arising out
of them ; and how easy it might be to convert associations,
innocent in themselves, to the promotion of ulterior objects
of a very different complexion, and capable of being made
the source of the greatest danger to the best interests of the
country. These reflections naturally, nay necessarily sug-
gested thoughts which ought to call their attention to the
difficulties arising out of the change of their circutnstances
both in this kingdom and in foreign countries. Let these
considerations he promptly viewed and judged with saga-
city. Was it because they had most wisely and most for-
tunately stopped in one country the crater of that immense
volcano which threatened Ireland with universal danger
and wide-spreading conflagration, that they were to
cease from looking into the recesses of those sub•
terraneous caverns, where the elements of fire must
still be enkindling, and the latent springs of danger
preserved with all their elastic force? In the present
state of society,—in that of the population even of Ire-
land, in the absence of poor laws for that country—(upon
the policy or applicability of which he now pronounced
no opinion),—in the want of adequate capital to afford
employment to an impoverished race,—in the comparative
relation of landlord and tenant,—in all the various ramifi-
cations arising out of such a disorganized state of things,—
there was much remaining unsettled. There was much
to be done by the Parliament and the Government, and
many duties to he performed in the reconciliation of sup-
posed adverse interests. Now it was impossible to glance
at the proximity of these difficult questions without seeing
how much they must be aggravated by the disfranchising
this borough of East Retford, fitr the mere purpose of
transferring the franchise to the adjoining hundred of Bas-
setlaw ?—(Hear.)—The Hon. Member for Hertford (Mr.
N. Calvert) was indeed so well convinced of this himself—
(and to his view of that fact he begged to point the parti-
cular attention of the House)—and so entirely persuaded
of the universal corruption which reigned through the
borough, that in his first Bill lie hail proposed to disfran-
chise the whole of these corrupt voters en masse, and
throw open the franchise to the county. He had since,
however, forgetful of his first and juster intention, changed
his plan, and merely changed the form of election in the
borough, and intended it fur the hundred of Bassetlaw.—
(A cry of 6, Na.")--Was he to understand that his Hon.
Friend did not bring in such a Bill as he had described,
and then abandon it ?
Mr. N. CALVERT.—You mistake : I did not bring
in a Bill of that specific description. I certainly brought

in two Bills, one for the disfranchisement of those who
were guilty of gtdss btibsry and corruption ; and the other
for transferring the franchise.
Mr. HUSKISSON—Then the tenderness displayed
in the alteration is not justice in the general principle
iVhich Might to govern such a case. It was creating, or
tatter stiperinducing, embarrassment where none pre-
viously existed ; far the case originally, and indeed at pre-
sent, when rightly considered, was simply this. They
were, as the Committee had left the subject upon the facts,
at perfect liberty, more than Parliament had been on any
previous occasion when such a subject had been submitted
for their decision, to disfranchise East Retford, and to
tarty the franchise and rights so forfeited to any part of
the country they thought proper.—(Hear.)—The moment
upon just grounds such a decision was competent for them
to make, he knew nothing in the history of the Constitu-
tion, in the precedent of their former proceedings upon the
like grounds, in the analogy of the decisions upon any cases
appertaining to such principles, which attached a prefe-
rence in the transference to mire vicinity or proximity
than to any other part of the kingdom at large. This
being the fact, whence the policy of overlooking the claims
of such a town as Birmingham, with a population of
140,000 souls, to bring in some local kundred,—with the
palpable knowledge of Birmingham, one of the great
quarters of a staple of the iron manufacture of' the
country, being unrepresented in Parliament; at the
same time knowing, likewise, Leeds, the great mart
of the woollen trade, being in the same state, and Shef-
field, the depository of the hardware trade ? Was this
a time when such a question was raised, to decide
in the negative, that Birmingham should not be represented
at all, and that a forfeited franchise should be assigned to
one of the hundreds which was directly represented by the
county members as well as indirectly by the borough
members, in the management of whose representative
sources so much could possibly be said ? So that in the
hundred thy were to have the exercise of the representa-
tive functions twice, and to have a twofold capacity of re-
turning members, while the large towns, with the great
interests which he had named, were to be deprived of the
chance of a single nomination. Ought any man in his
right senses to hesitate as to the course which it was pro-
' per to adopt under such circumstances? If Ilirmingliam
ought to be represented at all, which he thought there
were cogent reasons for admitting,..—indeed, lie should by
and by state them more strongly,—ought a question to
arise upon the alternative whether such would lie the case,
or whether a hundred in the county, like Bassetlaw,—one
emphatically named in the local topography as the Dukery
(Hear, hear),—should have the chance of being directly
represented? It was a matter of indifference to him in
whom the nomination should lie in such a case; enough
was it for him, upon the general principle, to know that
the county of Nottingham had now eight representatives;
and that Warwickshire, the depository of great trailing
interests, had now only six, and with a population so
much denser and more conflicting, and under every
circumstance so very differently constituted. When
the selection was pressed upon Parliament by any
particular occurrence, what answer could be given to the
claims of such a town as Birmingham, with trading in-
terests largely mixed up in the general commercial bearings
of the manufactures of the country? His Hon. Fmiend,
the member for Hertford, had alluded to the boroughs in
the West of England, and said how well they worked.—
Upon this, he (Mr. Huskisson) meant to say nothing more
than that lie knew enough of these matters to wish to avoid
discussing them in particular detail. After all, in the pre-
sent case the question was—had, in the particular instance,
that degree of forfeiture been itcurred by bribery which
justified the total disfranchisement of the borough ? It was
not necessary, in the fulfilment of the principle that
governed these transactions, that each individual should, in
the pursuit of what he conceived to be his private interest,
have vio'atcd his public trust ; it was enough to show that
the general corruption was so notorious in the body ex-
ercising the franchise, that they did not deserve to he
invested with public rights ; their franchise beta me, in such
a case, vitiated ; and, in fact, there was no other way of deal-
ing with the principle. They must act upon the general con-
dition of the place. He knew that in enforcing these opinions
he was exposing himself to the repetition of the imputation
of being of late governed solely by revolutionary theories.
All such charges he challenged with the fullest denial,
and dared the authoas of them to meet him upon the
proof. When gentlemen talked of the dangers of innova-
tion, they ought to remember, with Lord Bacon, " that
time was the great innovator." Time had 'raised these
great interests and populous towns, and it was the busi-
ness of a statesman to move onwards with the new combi-
nations which had grown about him. If he did not put
himself in advance, at least he ought to follow them with
a cautious, a prudent, but a steady step. It had been
Said most happily by one of the most nervous and power-
ful of modern Poets, that

" A thousand years scarce serve to form a State—
One hour may serve to lay it in the grave."
Upon the principle entertained in these lines he had uni-
fortnly endeavoured to avoid any rash, hasty, or danger-
ous experiments. and lie had always borne it in his mind,
that one hour might serve for the destruction of their long
and proudly cherished power. The Right Honourable
Gentleman concluded by conjuring the House to adopt
that principle of wise and b-neficial Reform which was
now placed within their reach, and they would experi-
ence the same effects from their concession as those so
beautifully described by Mr. Burke, in rpeaking of the
Welch, and which were embodied in that quotation so
elegantly applied by the Noble Lord at the head of the
law departments of this country (the Lord Chancellor),
in the discussions upon the Catholic Relief Bill. Ile did
not at that moment recollect the words, but he was con-
fident that by conferring this favour upon the great ma-
nufacturing interests of the country, they would allay
discontent and sacure themselves against the consequences
of innovations which circumstances had rendered un-
avoidable.—(Hear, hear.)
Ale. PEEL must say, that notwiti.strnding the sur-
pri.e and regret of his Right Hon. Friend who spoke last,
at the course which he (Mr. Peel) was about to take, he
could not see the extraordinary cause for it, when he was
merely supporting the resolution of the House of Com-
mons of last year, under what appeared to him, at least,
very similar circumstances. In return for this expression
of astonishment, his Right Hon. Friend must allow him
to give way to some surprise at a few of the observations
which hal just fallen from him. He must be allowed to
dive-t himself of all credit for that general horror for re-
form which his Right Hon. Friend had imputed to him,
as well as of some of the arguments in support of reform,
with which he seemed disposed to invest him. Indeed,
according to the expressions of his Right Hon. Friend,
it Was obvious that the Noble Lord opposite ought to
depend upon his vote for his general motion on the state
of the representation. His Right Hon. Friend appeared
to have been particularly struck with the quotation so
often repeated—

- Simul alba nautis
" refulsit,
" Defluit saris agitatus humor;
" Concidunt venti, fugiuntque nukes,
" Et minax (good sic voluere) ponto
" Unda recumbit."
And he applied that splendid passage, with which Mr.
Burke had illustrated the passing of the Welch Acts,
where a new kind of representation was conferred upon
general principles, to one where the change was to he
expressly foundrd upon specific delinquency. So that, he
repeated, his Right Hon. Friend stood committed for the
wider range of reform, at the moment when he thought
he
was merely enforcing the limited one. He had like-
wise called to his aid arguments deduced from what be
termed the smothered volcano of Ireland ; and asked, do
you believe that the settlement of the Catholic question
will, without the aid of poor laws, tranquillize the country ?
I am not, (continued Mr. Peel,) called upon now to say
whether it will or not. I see no direct connexion
with the one and the other, and I cannot help thinking
that he seeks an unfair advantage, in endeavouring to
gain assistance against us, and from the settlement
of a question in which we cordially acted with him.
With respect to what his Right Hon. Friend had said on
the subject of Parliamentary reform, he could only say
tkat he had always, as touch and as readily as his Right
Hon. Friend, acted upon the principle of disfranchisement,
when a clear case of delinquency hart been proved against
any borough. Ile had dealt with Penryn, for example,
on that principle, and voted fir the transfer of its fran-
chise. To be sure there were particular circumstances in
the case of Penryn to warrant the vote had been given re-
specting it by his Right Hon. Friend and the other mem-
bers of the Government.—(Hear, hear.)—He did not
understand the nature of the cheer, but he contended that
a large majority of that House had voted for the transfer
of the franchise to Manchester, his Right Hon. Friend,
nevertheless, agreeing with Lis colleagues in the principle
that the transfer should be made to the adjoining hundred.
He saw no ground of exception to that principle in favour
of East Retford, and therefore could nut adopt the course
Lis Right lion. Friend was at present pursuing. 'With
respect to the principle of voting for the transfer of the
franchise of delinquent boroughs to the large unrepre-
sented towns, he need not say he was not opposed to it,
having, as he had state.l, voted with his Right Hon.
Friend for the Noble Lord's (J. Russell's) motion to trans-
fer the Penryn franchise to Manchester. In conclusion,
the Right Hon. Gentleman repeated, that he saw no new
ground for then voting differently from hie. vote of heat

Session with respect to the transfer of the East rtetford
franchise, and therefore would support the proposition of
his Hon. Friend, the Member for Hertfordshire (Mr. N.
Calvert), for transferring it to the adjoining hunched of
Bassetlaw.

Lord J. RUSSELL, in a low tone of voice, was on-
destood to say that 'it was his intention next Session to
propose a general measure fir franchising the largest popu-
lous manufacturing towns, without reference to the elec-
tion-corruptions of boroughs.
Mr. BROUGHAM had been prevented by illness or ac-
cident from expressing his sentiments on the question be-
fore the House on former occasions ; be therefore would
do so briefly then. He thought the case of delinquency
against East Retford had been clearly proved, and there-
fore could not hesitate to rote for the transfer of its fran-
chise to one of the large populous towns which were at
present without representatives. It could not be said in
doing so that the agricultural interest would be thereby
lessened, for East Retford had been equally open to com-
mercial as to agricultural purchasers, the former being
equally ready to advance 40 good and solid reasons to each
elector for his vote with the landed gentlemen, and the
electors equally willing to adopt them. The change of
hands—he used the the term " hands" literally, without
any figurative meaning, when speaking of the corrupt
electors of East Retford—was a matter of indifference to
the good electors of that borough, who were equally im-
partial whether their representatives belonged to the
agricultural or the manufacturing classes of the commu-
nity, provided t'ley were equally liberal with their
forty golden arguments. Indeed, be believed it so hap-
pened that the representatives were chiefly commer-
cial gentlemen—perhaps on account of the manufacturing
importance of the county of Notts in train oil—(a laugh),
for he never heat(' of any other manufacture in it.—
[lt was here intimated to the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man that there were five or six species of manufacture in
the county of Nottingham.l The very fewness, and the
earnest endeavour to prove the existence of those five or six
manufactures, bore him out when he asserted that though
Norwich ;night have its crape representative, and other
manufacturing towns theirs, the large manufacturing towns
of Yorkshire, Warwickshire, and Lancashire, were actually
unrepresented in that House. Before he had had the
honour to a seat in that House, he and another Hon. and
Learned Gent, had been at its bar professionally, to all in-
tents and purposes, the representatives of Birmingham ; but
this representation was but temporary. With respect to
the divisions that bed taken place on former occasions on
the present question, be saw not how they could affect the
rotes of Hon. Members on that evening ; for though it
was true that the proposition of transferring the franchise
to Manchester had been in one instance negatived by a
majority of 36, and in another by a majority of 18, and
the motion for transferring it to the adjoining hundred of
Bassetlaw carried by a majority of 90, still it was well-
known that those divisions were—owing to causes which
he would not then take it upon him to specify—upon any
thing rather than the simple question on its own merits,
awl free from the influence of divisions in the Government
on certain great questions, as to whether East Retford should
or should not be disfranchised, and whether the right of
representation in that House should or should not be trans-
ferred to the town of Birmingham, or to the hundred
of Bassetlaw.—(Hear, hear.)—The present vote, then, he
contended, would be given on very different grounds, and
he trusted would be in favour of his Hon. Friend (Mr.
Tennyson's) motion. Indeed lie was confident it would,
and that in the event of the Hon. Member for Hertford-
shire pressing his motion to a divisifin, he (Mr.
Brougham) would be found in a large majority against
him. He was then more confident in his hopes that the
franchise would be transferred to a large town, because
the principle had been acted upon in four similar cases,
twice in the case of Penryn by that House, once Lefore in
the case of East Retford, also by that House, and once in
the case of Grampounil, by both Houses of Parliament.
With respect to the question of Parliamentary Reform, he
begged leave to say that lie was friendly to every moderate,
safe, and prudent plan of reformation in our present sys-
tem ; and that if any such plan was more feasible, and
moderate, and useful than another, it was that inserted in
the motion before the House, and in the scheme of the
Right Hon. Member for Liverpool, though he had declared
himself an opponent of Reform_namely, to transfer the
franchise of corrupt boroughs like Penryn and East Ret-
ford, to the large, wealthy, populous manufacturing towns
of Sheffield, Birmingham, and Manchester, arid perhaps
he (Mr. Brougham) would add, to the City of Edinburgh.
The House then divided—
For Mr. Tennyson's motion lll
Against it
Majority —B6
On our re-admisssion to the gallery we found Lord
J. RUSSELL. in possession of the Chair, moving an amend-
ment (as we understood) to Mr. N. CAb/ERT'S motion
for leave to bring in a Bill to prevent bribery and corrup •
tion in the borough of East Retford. The amendment
proposed by the Noble Lord was, that the House should
pass to the other orders of the day.
Mr. FANE observed, that he had intended to bring on
his promised motion, which had reference to nearly the
same object—namely, moving for a new writ for the
borough of Eest Retford; but if the House were disposed
to entertain the motion of the Hon. Member for Hertford-
shire in preference to his own, he should submit without
repining.
Mr. N. CALVERT had hoped the House and the No-
ble Lord would have permitted him to introduce his Bill,
and let it be read a first time ; and had that been the case,
he was prepared to fix the second reading for Friday.
se'nnight. If the House wished the motion should be post-
poned, lie would make no opposition to its wish.—(Cries
of " Go on, go on.")
Mr. H. GURNEY thought the motion of his Hon.
Friend would render superfluous and supersede the neces-
sity of the motion of the lion. Member (Mr. Fane) for a
new writ.

Mr. PEEL was not disposed to see the time of the
House wasted fruitlessly, after the strong majority which
had been already arrayed against the adjournment. If,
therefore, the Noble Lord was resolved to divide the
House by pressing his opposition to this fresh proposition
respecting the borough of East Retford, it would be far
better to submit to that postponement of the motion which
he thought might, very consistently with the.usages of the
House, have been dispensed with.

Lord J. RUSSELL said, he felt that the case of this
borough would, with more propriety, be comprehended in
and decided by the result of the more extended motion on
the subject of reform generally in the representation,
which would be so soon under their discussion. Under
this impression he confessed he felt no part of his original
objections to the motion removed.
Mr. N. CALVERT filially consented to postpone his
motion, and the discussion of it was accordingly adjourned
until Monday next.

Sir A. GRANT brought up the Report of the Com-
mittee on the Disembodied Militia Estimates. The Reso-
lutions Were agreed to.

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at Half-past Twelve.

STOCKHOLM, APRIL 17.—1 n the night of
the 18th of March, half an hour after midnight, very
smart shocks of an earthquake were felt in various parts of
Sweden, in the direction of N.W. and S.E. accompanied
with a noise in the air as in a hail storm.

The Commissioners for the Inspecting of
Charities, under Mr. BROUGHAM'S Act, passed in 1820,
have been at the Angel Inn, Bury, since Monday, the
13th April, where they have summoned before them all
the Trustees of Charities, Overseers, Churchwardens, &c.,
in that town, and in all the parishes within ten miles. It
is said that gifts have been discovered, which for years
have never been applied, as directed by the donors; and in
some cases even books are missing, supposed to have been
destroyed.—Esges Herald.
It is stated that a letter has been received by a
Nobleman in the north of Ireland from an illustrious
Statesman, in which, after alluding to Ireland, the writer
says, " I am determined the problem shall be solved—
why Ireland, with all her resources, should remain for
centuries a weight, instead of a support, upon the re-
sources of the empire." The same noble individual is re-
ported to have said, more than two months ago_" Wait,"
said he, " until the Catholic question is carried, and you
will then hear of something wlsiell will surprise you much
more." This, from a variety of circumstances, is sup-
po.ed to have referred to the Church question, which is
now so much spoken of.—Dsiblin Evening Post.

On the 2311 ult. a party of farmers having met
at the King's Arms Inn, St. Colomb, after enjoying a
cheerful glass, seine of the party proposed that 21bs. of
beef steaks should be provided for each person presenr, and
he who took most time in dispatching his portion should
pay for the whole. One of the company who had already
dined, offered to eat 3:1165. with bread, &c. in half an
hour, for a wager. The bet was speedily made; the
o'r'
steaksl were procured, and when they were half dres,ed the
glutton set to, and actually cleared the whole, with two
penny, loaves, a pint of beer, and a glass of brandy in 29
minutes; after which he danced a hornpipe, to the asto-
nishment of the spectators,--- West Briton.

PRICES OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOC/It•
...
Bank Stock - South Sea Stock ......... ...*
....,
3 per Cent. Red. 86%1X, Old Annuities ................•. ,
3 per Cent. Cons. 8714%14 New Ditto .. . ................. .1%......
:-11,i per Cent. 9.5a,i, Ex. Bills, XI,OOO 2d. 69 AT, pru-a,
Ditto Red. 951454, Ditto .500 2d. an Dl*
4 per Cent. 102%% Ditto Small 2,d. •-• ‘^' Lin
Ditto, P,26 102 Ditto Commercial . ........ rjr.,
Bank L. Ann.
India StrTk 220 India for Account . ..... t..
~,57)4

~87*

51 pm. iCons. for Acct.,