The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-11 00:00:00

PUBLIC PETITIONS, &c.

Lord PORTMAN gave notice that on Thursday next he
should introduce a Bill relating to tenants andtenancy in Eng-
land.

The LORD CHANCELLOR presented a petition from a
Dissenting congregation in Dublin, in favour of the grant to
Majnooth.
The NOZLE AND LEARNED LORD laid OIL the table, by
command of her Majesty, the report of the Commissioners on
Criminal Law.
The Bishop of NORWICH presented a number of peti-
tions from Dissenters in Suffolk against the grant to Maynooth.
The Marquis of BREADALBANE presented a petition
from Members of the Free Church of Scotland against the
grant to Maynooth. He stated that they had erected 630
churches. He also presented petitions of a similar tendency
from the members of the congregation of Albion chapel,
London, and from the members of different religious de-
nominations from Staleybridge, Loughborough, Dewsbury,
Halifax. Plymouth, and several other places.
The Earl of HADDINGTON did not mean to say a single
syllable on the subject that arose out of the grant. He rose to
dissent from what was expressed by the Noble Marquis as to
the cause of the disruption that had taken place in the Free
Church of Scotland. It was not in consequerce (as he un-
derstood the Noble Marquis to state) of the Auchterarder case.
That was not the cause of the disruption. They stayed in
several years afterwards. It was because of the conditions
which were afterwards imposed upon them, and which they
could not conscientious!), submit to.

The Earl of CHARI:EVILLE presented petitions against
the grant to Maynooth and the national system of education,
and postponed the motion of which he had given notice for to-
night till Monday next, so as to afford the Noble Earl time to
procure certain papers in reference to it.
ENDOWMENT OF MAYNOOTH.

The Duke of WELLINGTON moved the order of the day
for the House going into Committee on the Bill for the en-
dowment of sl.ayrooth.____

The Duke orLEINSTER said he had had no opportunity,
during the former debate, to address their Lordships on the
subject of this Bill, and he wished now to detain the House
for a few minutes while he removed some of the aspersions
which had been cast on the College of Maynooth. He had for
several years resided near to that College, and he could assure
their Lordships that he had never heard of the least miscon-
duct, or of anything improper having been committed by the
inmates, or the principals of the establishment. He had the
honour of being personally acquainted with some of them, and
for his part he had never met with more worthy men. They
always abstained from participating in. politics, and were loyal
and true subjects of her Majesty. He begged to thank the
Government for having introduced the measure, and to assure
them that he thought it would prove a great boon and a great
benefit to Ireland.

The Earl of CL A NCAR TY said, notwithstanding what had
fallen from the Noble Duke opposite, it would still be his duty
to move that the Bill be committed that day six months ; be-
cause he thought it was opposite to the Constitution, and in
direct violation of the principles of the Established Church.
He called on Noble Lords to consider well the consequences
which would arise if the Bill were passed into a law, anti
trusted they would not allow the Anglican Church to rest on
mere sufferance, by recognising the principle that the Roman
Catholic religion, or rather an antagonist church, was deserv-
ing of the support of the State. The Christian religion was
not founded on expediency, but on the Scriptures, and as a
member of that religion, he never would consent to a measure
to perpetuate an institution, the education taught in which was
in direct opposition to the tenets of the Church. They talked
of the hardship of giving some of the professors in the College
of Maynooth so small a stipend as 1501. a year, whilst
a curate in the Protestant Church, who might have
a large family to support, received no more than 751.
a year, but who was no list a gentleman because
he was in want of the necessaries of life, fur he held
that the true characteristics in the education of a gentleman
were to be found in the Christian religion. It was stated that
they could not enter Maynooth without perceiving evidence
of the poverty of the institution in the filth and dirtiness which
abounded in every part; but if they went into a poor curate's
house they would perceive, instead of filth and dirtiness, fru-
gality and cleanliness. Then, with respect to the policy
of tne measure, the ostensible object of the Govern-
meat in proposing it, was to strengthen the union be-
tween this country snd Ireland, which was a great and im-
portant design ; but they should have considered whether the
people of England were in favour of strengthening their union
with Ireland by charitable endowments. The Protestants of
England and Ireland, and the Presbyterians of Scotland, con-
demned the measure as impolitic, and as uncalled for. He
gave credit to the Government for their motives, but he could
not conceive a worse moment than the present for proposing
a message of peace. Ireland would say the concession was
wrung from a reluctant Parliament. He called upon Noble
Lords to state whether the petitions which they had presented
against the Bill contained the genuine sentiments of the pe-
titioners or not. He was clearly of opinion that the feelings
of the people of England were against the measure. Let that
question he adjourned, and let others be brought forward, like
the one before their Lordships last night—measures that would
take care of the poor, and be of a beneficial tendency to the
country—then such a measure would go over approved of by
the people of England, and would be received by the people of
Ireland as a " message of peace" indeed.
The Earl of WI CKLO W said that he would not detain the
House long. The question had been so much debated already
that nothing new could be said upon it. He considered that
her Majesty's Ministers were influenced by a regard to the
public welfare in bringing such a measure forward, but much
as he approved of it. he would not regard it with such satis-
faction if it were not an index of other measures, having for
their object the welfare of the people of Ireland. There was
another subject which he would allude to, and which was almost
suggested by the measure at present before their Lordships—
he meant the endowment of the Catholic clergy of Ireland.
That was a question which he had long considered was impera-
tively necessary, and he was quite convinced that it was merely
a question as to time and mode. There were, he thought, two
pays by which it was proposed that this should be accomplished,
either by making it a charge on the Consolidated Fund, or by
taking a portion of the funds of the Protestant Church for that
purpose. The first he considered an objectionable mode, and a
mode which would not be sanctioned by the Government or the
country. The second was also objectionable, for he could not

be a consenting party to any measure that would despoil the
Protestant Church in Ireland of its property. He considered,
however, that something must he done in reference tothis sub-
ject, and if they deferred it long, he foresaw that it would
ultimately bevome a party shiboleth, and agitate the
country to as great an extent, if not a greater extent,
than the grant to Maynooth. What he would propose to do,
instead of the two modes that had been frequently suggested
for the endowment of the Catholic clergy of Ireland, was to
make the endowment a rent charge. This charge, he con-
sidered, was one to which the landlords of Ireland could have
n, objection, for, on referring to the Tithe Adjustment Act in
' 1737, up to the Church Temporalities Act, he found that the
landlords had benefited to the amount which had been taken
off the revenues of the Church. By the recent Church Tem-
poralities Act no less than 60,0001. was taken from the Church
and put into the pockets of the landlords ; and if this were
added to the 195,0001. referred to, it would make a sum of
255,0001. He thought it most strange, also, that when the
25 per cent. was struck off the 750,0001., which was the
revenue of the Irish Church, there was nothing like the outcry
on the Opposition benches which had been given to the mea-
sure at present before their Lordships. Now, if this sum of
255,0001. was put on as a rent-charge for the endowment of
the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland, he considered that it
would do exactly for that purpose, and, by making this pro-
posal, he would be only asking their Lordships to place the
landlords in the same position as they were twelve years ago.
Surely, then, if (as he believed) a measure of this kind I
would give satisfaction, and promote the tranquillity which

was so much to be desired, it would not be asking too much
from her Majesty's Government to introduce a Bill for that
purpose. That, or something similar, would to found to be
the most effectual, as well as satisfrctory, mode of securing
the peace and good feeling of the Irish people; and he hoped
that before the present session expired they would bring for-
ward a measure of that kind.

Earl FITZ WILLIAM was sure that her Majesty's Govern-
ment ought to feel grateful to the Noble Earl for bringing for-
ward the subject which he had just introduced to their noticp.
It was one which they should take up, and which fol-
lowed almost as a necessary consequence after the step
which they had just taken. He had formed a very
erroneous judgment of the ability of her Majesq's Government
if they did not follow up the measure which was now before
their Lordships by other measures of a conciliatory nature, and
above all by the measure which had just teen referred to by
the Noble Earl. He did not assent to the proposition of taking
the money for that purpose from the consolidated fund ; and
he believed that the Catholic clergy would persist in refusing
to take such a payment. His plan was not exactly the same,
hut was nearly of a similar kind to that proposed by the Noble
Earl. The income of the clergy of the Protestant Church in
Ireland might be now somewhat smaller than it was, and there
was no doubt that it was so ; but it was no longer
levied in kind, and the poor were altogether exempted from the
payments which were formerly exacted from them. With re-
spect to the mode of paying the Catholic clergy he thought
they should be placed en the same footing exactly as the Fro.
testant clergy. As they were not married men it might not,
indeed, be necessary to give them the same amount of income,
hut in his opinion they were placed on precisely the same
footing. It would be impossible to get rid of the feeling which
such inequality would give rise to in the minds of both the
clergy and people of Ireland. He would therefore props se that
whatever would remain to make up their income, after the
twenty-five per cent. was allotted to them, should be made up
by an additional charge on the land. He begged to apologise
to their Lordships for having occupied their attention again on
the measure before the House, but as the question of the
endowment of the Catholic clergy had been introduced he
thought it desirable to state the opinions which he entertained
upon that subject.
Lord CAMPBELL said, that as he had been referred to by
the Noble Earl, he felt inclined to make a few remarks, but,
looking to the state of the House, and to the omens of adjourn-
ment which it indicated, he would postpone anything he had
to say till a future stage of the Bill.

Lord CLANCARTY said that he would not press his
amendment to a division, and he would therefore, with their
Lordships' permission, withdraw it. He admitted having op-
posed a measure of a similar nature while he sat. in the House
of Commons, but things and circumstances bad changed since
then. Ireland had long existed in an excited state, and the
present measure was introduced as an earnest of their willing-
ness and desire to deal fairly and liberally with the people of
that country. Reserving to themselves the option of intro-
ducing larger measures whenever an opportunity or occasion
should present itself, they had thought it better to bring in this
Bill in the first instance, to convince the people of Ireland that
they wished to deal with them rather on conciliatory than on
coercive principles.
The Marquis of BREADALBANE was sure the speech of
the Noble Lord would have a due effect upon thesister country ;
but he believed the people of England would not be gulled by
the measure.—( Hear, and a laugh.) The speech of the Noble
Lord would show to the people the feeling entertained by in-
fluential members of their Lordships' House on this most im-
portant question—a question which he maintained was con-
trary to the fundamental principles of the Constitution, and op-
posed to those safeguards of the liberties of the country, which
were established at the Revolution, and which had never been
violated till now. He regretted that he was compelled to differ
from those friends, with whom he generally acted ; but en
another occasion he hoped to have an opportunity of stating
more fully the grounds upon which he opposed the Bill.
The House then went into Committee on the Bill, and the
whole of the clauses having been agreed to, the House re-
sumed, when

The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and the Bill was or-
dered to be read a third time, on Monday next.
LANDLORDS AND TENANTS' BILL.
Lord STANLEY intimated his intention of moving the
second reading of this Bill on Friday, instead of Monday next.