Star.
London, England, 1808-01-30 00:00:00

TOOLE PETITION.

Mr. M. T. TAY Loa, after a few observations, moved that the
heitring of the said Petition be postponed from Tuesday, the
2cl day of February, to Thursday the 11th of the same month.—
C rdered.

FOREIGN LICENCES.

Mr. HORNER rose, pursuant to his notice, and
said, that it would not be necessary for him to detain
the House to any length, as the object of his motion
could be stated in a very few words. He felt it,
however, in the first place necessary to observe, in
consequence of an observation which had fallen from
a Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Pei.
lval), that it was not his intention, in making the
lotion-he was about to make, to anticipate, in any
!spect, the discussion that might hereafter arise,
)on the legality.or policy of the Orderi of Council ;
idler was-it his intention to comment upon those
tences their alluded to by the Right Honourable
; his object was metely to put the House
possession of such information as might enable
t,rn to form an adequate judgment of the extent to.
-hick a practice, (unqucstior.ably within the Act,
Ind in its origin legal), had -been carried; whether
'ith regard to-safe conduct, or the commercial inter-
-surse in transports conveying foreign commodities
:cm one to another.. He was aware, that never was
!here a period in which it was more hazardous to at-
tempt to trade without those licences than the pre-
sent, and that, by consequence, never was there a
_ . _

ime in which the granting of. lkences by the Privy
;ouacil was carried to such a serious extent ; but he
contended, that thin very considemtion Was • the
itrongest argument wily it Was necessary for the Le-
;islatart of the country to ascertain its limits,- and if
thix was not possible, to preznle zilch as -both th 4
minciples of commercial 'policy,' and constitutional'
..or, rendered necessaq.-T- -When *it was • COnsidered
now largely the field gi riCimices.i!as Opened, by the

present extensive, almost universal system of block-
ade, the present would not be thought an unseason-
able opportunity for ascertaining the extent of the per-
sons to which the grant of those licences was entrus-
ted. Hehad said, that this unrestrained power was
injurious upon two considerations ; Ist, upon that of
commercial policy ; and 2dly, upon that of constitu-
tional law. With regard to the first, there could be
no doubt, it was not politic to throw into the hands
of his Majesty's executive Government the entire con-
troul of t'ne commercial intercourse of the country,

upon such an uncertain principle, commercial men
could not be expected to engage in any speculation,
because there was no one uniform grounduponwhich
to claim such licences, nor was there any recognized
principle by which the persons exempted could as-
certain whether they laboured under any partial grie-
vance, or whether they were, for sufficient reas.on, ex-
empted from the benefits of such licence ; ar.d here he
could not help observing, that certainly it did appear
that those exemptions had been carried to a most se-
rious extent. But he had said, that this power of
granting licences so unascertained was also contrary
to the principles of the Constitutional law ; he meant
those principles by which it was regulated, that no
money could be taken from the subject but by the le-
gislative power. According to the true principles of
the Constitution, nothing but the Parliament could
levy money of the people ; and yet what was the im-
mediate effect of this system of granting licences with
a discretionary power ? nothing less than that of esta-
blishing an impost, a system of taxation on the sub-
ject, in contradiction to the very spirit of the Consti-
tution, and in open violation of the law of the land.—
By this system the entire foreign trade was thrown in-
to the hands of the executive, and thus the foreign
trade was exclusively submitted to the controul of
the licences of the executive, which licences were not
authorized by Act of Parliament. The Honourable
Gentleman concluded with moving,
" That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, pray-
ing that he would be graciously pleased to give directions to the
proper Officers to lay before the House a list of all the Licences
of Trade, granted by his Majesty's Most Honourable PrivyCoun-
eß to private persons, meaner that would have been illegal,
unless under the authority of said licence, from the month of May
1803, to the Ist day of November last, inclusive."
Mr. ROSE said, that there could be but one wish
on the part of his Majesty's Ministers, with respect
to the principle of the motion now before the House.
The Honourable Gentleman had prefaced his mo-
tion with a speech that did him great credit, and
shewed at once his candour and perspicuity. In the
same spirit of candour, he would suggest to that Ho-
nourable Gentleman an amendment in the wording
of the motion now before the House ; the motion
went to require a list of the licences, &c. and there
was annexed the distinction of legality and illegality,
a distinction that, perhaps, it Would not be so easy
to ascertain as might at first be imagined. As to
the first objection, it would be scarcely possible to
supply a list of all the licences granted within the
five years, specifying each, and severally distinguish
ing them.
Mr. HORNER begged pardon for interrupting
the Right Honourable Gentleman, but he thought he
could save the House and the Right Honourable
Gentleman much unnecessary trouble, by stating that
the wording of the present motion, as far as related
to the list of licences, specifying each, was a mistake,
to be attributed to his inadvertency ; as his intention
was to have moved rather for the number of licences
so granted, which would as fully answer the ultimate
object of his motion.—lt was then agreed upon that
the papers to be laid before the House should be an
account of the number of licences so granted, &c.
Mr. ROSE could not avoid pressing upon the con-
sideration of Lhe Hon. Gentleman the propriety of
another alteration in the wording of his motion. The
distinction that was attempted to be laid down as to
what orders were legal or illegal, would be necessa-
rily productive of delay, if not difficulty. Perhaps it
was not going too far to say, that all such orders were
in a manner illegal ; but yet, if such were not allowed
and to a certain extent, it would be impossible in such
times to carry on foreign trade at all. But even ad-
mitting this, he would yet say, that when the Hon.
Gentleman had complainedsuch licences, as being
unconstitutional, he should have adverted to the cir-
cumstance of an Act having been passed in the 43d
of the King, authorising such grants of licences.—'I
As an illustration of the difficulty arising out of this '
distinction of legality or illegality, he would adduce
an instan,e of three hundred licences being granted
within a certain period of time. Now according to
the present wording of the motion, those three hun-
dred could not be laid before the House till they had
been submitted to the revision of the Privy Council,
and till the Privy Council had decided which were in
their opinion legal or illegal. He wished, therefore,
to obviate this difficulty by omitting this distinction,
and moving for the production of licences granted
within stated times. As to what the Hon. Member
had said he should make the subject of his second mo-
tion, namely, the fees granted to the Officers of the
Privy Council, he thought that in general 'stated fees
were much less liable to abuse than gratuities, which
he should in every department whatever be prepared
to set his face against. As to the precise nature of
the fees of office on the granting of licences, the fees
amounted, for a whole cargo, to merely fourteen
pounds, including the stamp duty, which amounted
to 11. 10s. ; *which fourteen pounds 91. 4s. 6d. was
paid for the sign manual, 21. to the principal clerk, and
11. 10s. distributed among the other inferior officers,
and 2s. 6d. to the office keeper. In stating this he
would repeat, that there was nothing which he was
more anxious to put a check to than the system of
veratuities, He would join with any Gentleman in
annexing to it any punishment seasonably rigorous,
He would go so far as to subject it to the penalties of
a simple felony. For there was no one existing abuse
to which he was so anxious to put a stop. He had no
other motive in suggesting these alterations to the
Honourable Gentlernan, than to put him in the best
war of coming at the information he sought for,
which he believed could not be so readily obtained
by the motion as it originally stood-4or the very
merchants who solicited for licences were ip many in-
stances totall independent of those licences, though,
front a very Notifiable caution,they had apOed for
each licences. •
Mr. HORNER replied to the getkellectehter7-
iions of the Right' Hon. GeOepian, as the
ilistl'ilction of th.legality on illegality of the licences,
end denied that the 434 of the sing; as cited by the
4Right, How Gelithinan-1 applikt, because the 'object

of that Act related merely to a temporary suspension
of the Navigation Act.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.
defended the necessity of this discretionary power
being vested in the Privy Council, and said, that the
' object of all such orders was to ease the subject un-
der the operation of the strict letter of the law. He
took this opportunity of repeating his doubts of the
propriety or necessity of asking Parliament for an
indemnity, with respect to the Orders of Council, in
as much as it did not appear that in this instance more
had been done than had been done before, and in a
manner legalized by the Act already alluded to, the
+fsd of his present Majesty. After some further con-
versation between Mr. Homer and Mr. Rose, as to
the proposed alterations, it was finally agreed to by
both Gentlemen, that the two motions should be to
the following purport :
That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, praying
that his Majesty would be graciously pleased to direct the proper
Officers to LI before the House an account of the number of Li•
cences recommended by the Lords of the Privy Council to he
granted by his Majesty to private persons for commerciallkjeets
from May 1803, to the 31st of Decerah::: last, diStinguishiurtise
month or year.
Th.:t an humble Address be presented to his MojLsty, pra.Yrtig;
that he would be graciously pleased to direct the proper officers
to lay before this House a return of the amount of fees or gratui-
ties yearly paid, and received on account of such licences, by
all Clerks and Officers, from May 1803 to the 31st of last De-
cember, spewing the receipt and distribution thereof, and spe-
cifying such persons, and according to what rate such fees were
required ;
which were agreed to.
COPENHAGEN EXPEDITION.
Mr. PONSONBY rose, among other purposes, to
postpone his motion, fixed for Monday next, to the
following Wednesday, and now to move for copies of
such papers as his Majesty's Ministers were disposed
to lay before the House—by this, the House would
learn what papers, relating to this expedition, they
were not so disposed to grant, and thus a subject of
unmixed debate would come before the House. He
was sorry to say, that, from a communication he had
had with the Right Hon. Gentleman, he could with
any effect move only for the following papers. He
should first move, that an humble Address be presen-
ted for copies of the proclamation's issued by the Com-
manders of his Majesty's Naval and Military Forces,
while before Copenhagen.; and also copies or extracts
of the communications with the Danish Government,
touching the surrender of the Danish fleet by capitu-
lation—Secondly, that there be laid before this House
copies of the articles of capitulation concluded be-
tween the Commanders of his Majesty's Naval and
Military Forces, or either of them, and the Officers
commandinghis Danish Majesty's Forces in the island
of Zealand ; and thirdly, for the substance of such
information as had been received from his Majest),'s
Naval Officers, and the Officers of the Dock-yards,
with respect to he state and the ccuidition of the Danish
ships at the time of the surrender, or subsequent to
their arrival in the British ports. His design in post-
poning his motion was merely to give time for the
production of those papers, and to enable Gentlemen
to come fully prepared to try the merits of the propo-
sition he should then have the honour of submitting
to them. He wished, before he sat down, to know
from the Right Hon. Secretary when the papers called
for, relating to the offer on the part of this country to
Russia, that that power should mediate between her
and Denmark, subsequent to the expedition, would be
laid before the House.
Mr. Secretary CANNING replied, that as the
House did not sit to-morrow, the papers requited
could not be laid before the House till Monday.
Mr. WHITBREAD was proceeding to move for
certain accounts, &c. when upon a suggestion from
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, relating to the ab-
sence of his noble colleague (Lord Castlereagh), Mr.
Whitbread contented himself with giving notice, that
he would on Monday move, that there be laid before
that House an account of the names, tonnage. &c. of
the transports employed in the Danish expedition, to-
gether with sailing instructions and place of rendez-
vous ; and also an account of how many were taken
or lost, specifying which, and when and where so lost
or captured.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
MR. WHARTON IN THE CHAIR.'

The House having gone into a Committee to con-
sider further of the Supply granted to his Majesty.—
Mr. WARD moved the following Resolutions, which
were severally put and agreed to.
Ist. A vote of 130,000 seamen, including, 31,400 Royal Ma-
rines, for the year 1808.
2d. That a sum not exceeding 3,126,5001. be granted to his Ma-
jesty for wages for the above seamen, for 13 months, at the rate
of 11. 17s. per man per month.
3d. A sum not exceeding 3,211,0001. for victualling, at 11. 18s.
per man per month.
4th. 5,170,0001. for wear and tear, at SI. per man per month.
Mr. TIERNEY here wished to know whether any
allowance was to be made for the stores brought from
Copenhagen?
Mr. ITUSKISSON answered, that no allowance
was made in the estimates he was now proposing to
the Committee.

Mr. TIE RNEY--" What I expect would be this,
that in consequence of the great quantity of stores
coming to the public service, the estimates upon that
head would be much less than usual. I wish, there-
fore, to know, if any allowance is intended to be made
upon that account ?"
Mr. HUSKISSON—" In point of money. no al-
lowance is to made."
Mr. TIERNEY—" I wish to know whether the
estimates of the year are to be as lArge as usual ?"
Mr. HUSKISSON—" The estimate upon that
head will be just as large as formerly."
Mr. TIERNEY—" Then I wish to know, whether
any valuation or statement of the amount of these
stores is to be laid before the House ?"
Mr. HUSKISSON—" I am not prepared to an-
swer that question. A sum will be proposed to Par-
liament upon a future day, adequate to make the
purchase from the captors of the stores brought from
Copenhagen.; and it will be for the House to deter-
mine what will be the manner of disposing of them.
It is thought that a valuation of them will be made
out in the first placer but in respect to,d2e stores for
which provision' is to be made, there' would be no dif.
ference." •
- Mr. TIERNEY-41 Then I am now'' under-
'starbdt•that besides the exiSente of taking apse Stores,
literal:ilk are yet to pay for them ?"
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER—
" kis in the view of the Ministry to reward 'those
concerned in'that expedition. The estimate for stores
will be such as will be ssecient for the supply of The

year ; and, in that case, the
Copenhagen will fall to be pt
Annual Supply. The property
Crown, it will be distributed
judged most proper."
Mr. WARD took occasii

estimate for wear and tear wa
250,0001. less than it had been
sequence of the Ordnance D-
ed to the Navy for wear and
He lastly moved 521,0001, f
vice, at the rate of 7s. per
estimate, he took occasion to
rily increased 2s. per man WI
allowance of ss. per man hae
The report was then brougl
received on Monday next.

REVERVON
The Report of the Reversion "
Banta, and the Bill ordered to be
-and then engrossed. Adjqurned tc

ear ; and, in that case, the stores that rate
:openhagen will fall to be purchased as
tar
~nnual Supply. The property thereof be;„„!, Beath C
:rown, it will be distributed in the mauves 6; tim •Ae. ne
udged most proper."
Mr. WARD took occasion to obsery sores ;
estimate for wear and tear was for the cants', dig
?50,0001. less than it had been the precedin,T„
;equence of the Ordnance Department being. ' the I
eel to the Navy for wear and tear to that •
He lastly moved 521,0001, for Ordnance for,
vice, at the rate of 7s. per man per math.—
estimate, he took occasion to observe, was ,
rily increased 2s. per man this year, -as the tithe I
allowance of ss. per man had been found luso. • '
The report was then brought up, and otlertd da
received on Monday next.
Chalea
REVERSION RILL.
The Report of the Reversion Bar was brought th Ham'
Bankes, ar.d the Bill ordered to be read a third time i; in a
and then engrossed. Adjourned toMonday. 7:4 br
aAI
• THE EVENING STAR, 4'll'
.
LONDON. qty
SATURDAY, JANUARY 30. 'cans
Kixo CHARLES% MARTYRDOSS.NO business /1/1;;. and' IC
Exchange. would
PRICE OF STOCKS YESTERDAY, bf Pla
Bank Stock 227 k India Bons, pay a is.t4 sbOuld
per Ct. Red. 631 641 Imperial 3 pee Cat
3 per Ct. Cons. Ann. 63.1,-i Imperial Annuities' •
4 per C. 84 Ex. Bills, is. dig, 2: with t
5 per Cent. Navy 9611 Cranium, 31 •
Long Ann. 18 1-101 English Tickets, 91
rR
India Stock, 1711 Cons. for 25th ace, ev_L cop 0
THE COURSE OF EXCHANGE to mot
Amsterdam, 35 7 2 U Palermo, 92 Pula la to Bue
Pitto at sight, 34 11
Rotterdam, 11 2 2 U Genoa, 4si
Hamburgh, 34 4 2 U Leghorn'
491 Video
1 Venice, 52 Li, p.., apply
Altona, 34 5 2 U.
*ant pert 6011 th
Paris 1 day's da. 23 6 Liv,. Naples, 42
Pitto, 2 Us. 23 10. Lisbon, GO say
Bourdeeuz, ditto 23 IQ Oporto, CO
Madrid, ' • 41 Effect. Dublin, let their r
Cadiz, 41 Effect. Cork., ill for six
Bilboa, 41 Effect. New u:as,
Agio on the Bank of iolland, per cam. " °
• the
.1k
Opinions are divided respecting the Five •,••
the Line seen off Cork on the 23d histanr. I
number agrees with that of the Rochefort 5q.... . e
which originally consisted of six ships, one of
tl
the Jemappe, having returned into port ; but, as •, e
steered to the southward, it is aliedged they coold
possibly be off Cork at the time alluded to.
Sir JOHN DUCKWORTH'S squadron also , , e
five ships, and is thought by many to be that sot "
Cork.
It is believed at the Admiralty, that the above • .1
were French. It is rather thought that Sir ' . 1
STRACNAN is in pursuit of the enemy more to 44
southward, and from him favourable act= •- I
hourly expected. all
Dispatches were yesterday received at the .• brig
ralty from Lord Cou-prowoon. They were brats'
to Portsmouth by the Tigre, which arriviclon . • •
' day from the Mediterranean. It is said, that
Coturicwoon's dispatches, which are dated the.
December, off Toulon, contain an account d'
mation having been received by his Lordshici
• the French had determined to make an amok ■
• Sicily ; and that, for that purpose, a naval face '
expected at Naples from Rochefort and Brest k ',
probable, therefore, that the squadron which
escaped from Rochefort has pr aceeded to the -
terranean, and we shall be glad to have this .•! '
tore confirmed, for we shall then have every -
to expect that some of our squadrons will fall in ' 'Ol
them.
Toulon is closely blockaded by our fleet, and
French force in that port consists of only five a
the line. Lord COLLINGWOOD has captured Seel
• nish qhips of considerable value.
• • 1 '1
Advises from Admirals PURVIS and Sir
SMITH were received yesterday of so late a • ,
the middle of the present • month. They avid u
material importance. The French and Spaniel •
at Cadiz manifested, towards the end of D. •••.'
a disposition to put to sea, but since that taw'
have remained in a perfectly inactive state.
' Tagus continues to be closely blockaded. T 1 i 2
t parations for the siege of Gibraltar are contiod,..
the French and Spaniards, but the troops
on the Spanish lines are not yet very numerous ,
A number of letters arrived yesterday from
Holland, and Hamburgh. They all concur in'
ploring the dreadful effects of the late tyrannici
crees of BONAPARTE, and in foreboding eventual
t to the mercantile interests, from a persevergo
r those oppressive anfl impolitic expedients.
• Another vessel arrived in the River yester Jay
Lisbon,
December.Th
which placee
she
accounts lef
brought roanboritt
by
the lhaerttera;:i.
every important. The tumults and insurrections,
3 certainly did take place about the middle oflast
have been so effectually quelled, that sin ce that
I. a general tranquillity has prevailed, k one -'
e it seems that the French hive shorn a desire t°'
ciliate the Portuguese. They hive ilot removed'
Government appointed by the PaMcE REutsvaa
.
r- eve of his departure. Qf -course, the Prisdicticl
1, this Government embraces. those departments,'
which concern the civil administration, and 4..
;e impart a power to the administrators in
!a with the substantial prerogatives of the "'•
Le 'power, at all dims sovereign.
•

ranklin's sailing,

the Government
ali tn,
there, that they must depart from the river of Plate
in forty days from the date of the order, loaded or
tot. It was the general opinion there, that the Ame-
woo and Portuguese were all spies for the Engl..h ;
and, for the term of two years, no neutral whatever
would be admitted into any of the ports in the river
d tate, under any pretence whatever, even if they
sham have a Royal licence.
e, General Liniers had entered into a new treaty
with the Commander of the British squadron left
oiling in the River (which consisted of a frigate, a
sloop of war, and a cutter), that the British were not
to molest the River trade, that is, from Monte Video
to Buenos Ares, or any of the ports above Monte
Video; and that the Spanish Government are to
ripply the British squadron, or any ships of their na-
gon that may put in there, with what supplies they
nay want. Maldonado was appointed the port for
neir rendezvous ; and this was to continue in force
for six months.
On the 17th October, was boarded off Maldonado
by the British frigate Nereide, Captain Corbett, who
took the Chief Mate out of the ship, he being an
Englishman, but otherwise treated us politely. The
war and cutter were also in sight. They in-
that it was their determination not to mo-
River-trade, as the Spaniards supplied them
thing they wanted. Captain Corbett also
he expected a war between England and
and that we should be taken before we got

" On the 2d December, fell in and was boarded
French privateer schooner from Guadaloape ;
with water, and was treated politely ;
12.58. N. and long. 50 W.
u On the 6th, was boarded by a French Govern
teem brig,called the Victor Hughes, and the schooner
Galliter, from Cayenne, with a schooner in com-
pare! vas informed that they had captured an English
brig from Africa, with slaves, bound to Charleston.
u On the sth, spoke the schooner Polly, Bond,
• Tures Island, 68 hours out, bound to North
Carolina."

lamer OF A LETTER t RDNI CARLSTTAM, DATED 7TH
JANUARY, 1808.
" I have received intelligence from Stralsund,
French are fitting out in their harbour there,
privateers to cruize against England and Swe-
t wrote immediately to a high quarter, to
a defence in our harbours this winter; espe-
the season is so mild, it is to be feared the
Ay attempt to burn all English vessels lying
harbour.
had such an effcct, that orders were immedi-
' to the Governors in the fortifications, to

BUENOS AYRES:
I papers 114 letters were received yesterday from
i south carolina to the 25th ult. They contain no-
Z 64 new with respect to the politics of the United
Ste; but the following extract affords some inte.
robs information from the River Plate :
CHARLESTON, DECEMBER 24.
t The Franklin, Ehronstrom, arrived this day from
d,
n DSOs Aye
REPORT OF CAPTAIN EIIRONSTROM.
l
g captain Ehronstrom sailed from Buenos Ayres
re tke 14th of October ; left at that place ship Diana,
ci los, of Wiscasset, expected to take in a cargo in a
to kA days for England ; brig Betsey, Forest, of
charieston, taking in a cargo for the Cape of Good
/jape t also the Danish ship Fortune, Petenor, tak-
:, too a cargo for London ; and five Portuguese yes-
,
ids, brigs and schooners.
" About a week previous to the Franklin's sailing,
411 the neutrals received orders from the Government

Th sio:p of war
ad, brined us, tl
the• la the Rive
s every th
us, that
America, an,
ists kat
zen On the
by a French
e supplied her
•at lat. 12. SS.'.
to " On the
tent brig, ca
Calker, fo
tam;vasit
k. brig from
-ou • " On th
rh from Turk',
L, Carolina."
e 14
into[ EXTRACT OP
tba
" I have
:e 1, • that the Fre
It • tine privat
latd dee. I vtr(
Prepare a d
:onjee 607 as the
rea• enemy may
wi la our harbo
n It had
td ately issued
•
sail take serious
ye Da
Yesterday
' rem Helvoi
tkbarked as
)trEl ee retur
atetie)einn-
of mJ 'lnTs,hebw
shipsthe cute 11'1
nnberi r ;
itised tehe
le
The this forenooi
BY the le