The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-05 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WE INESTIA* EVEN-ING, FPI3ReARY 5, 11445.

gulations.. The llon. Member gave notic3 that to-
morrow he would move that the petition be printed
with the votes.
MEDICAL REFORM BILL.

Mr. ESCOTT presented a. petition from the medi-
cal practitioners of Hampshire against the Bill intro-
duced by her Majesty's Ministry.
TROOPS FOR THE COLONIES.

Mr. HUME presented a petition from Reading (as
we understood), praying the House not to sanction
the embarkation of any troops to those colonies which
_were destructive of British constitutions. He (Mr.
flume) could not agree to the whole prayer of tho
petition.

laws which had passed in bygone ages, and had be-
come obsolete; but these orders were passed annually,
and therefore they ought to be drawn up in such a
manner as to.give the House the po xer of enforcing
them;,. He did not intend to submit any motion .on
the atbject, but should content himself with having
called the attention of the House to it.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did
not consider that the members of the Government.
Were more interested in this question than any other
Member of the House. These privileges were the
privileges not of the House only, but of the,whole;
people of the realm. The right of deciding on the
return of Members was vested in that ,House,'and
.there was no other legally appointed tribunal for the
decision of those quest one. As Members of that
House, they had the right of deciding if the persons
whose names appeared upon the poll were proper voters
or not, and from the earliest times it had been decided
that Peers were not admitted to vote for Members of
Parliament ; and, although not a lawyer himself,
he would venture to say' that it was contrary to
the law of the land for any Peer to do so.
As regarded the elections of Members of Parliaty ent,
anti the decisions upon them, that House was the
sole judge ; and he would take it upon himself to sly,
that if a Peer should claim the right to vote at an
election for a Member of that House, the House had
the undoubted right of rejecting the vote. It was
the privilege of the frouse to prevent any interference
on the part of Peers with the election of its Members ;
and for his part he should be very sorry to see any
alteration made in the resolution to -which the Hon.
Gentleman referred. Ile believed that any altera-
tion would be an abandonment of the privileges of.the
llcuse, and of that control which. it ought to exer-
cise over the election of its Members. ,
Mr. 'WILLIAMS said, that as the law now stands
a Peer 'goes before the revising barrister, and claims to
have hie name inserted in the list of voters. The
barrister knows nothing of the sessional order of the
House of Commons, and he allows the Peer to be re-
gistered as an elector. NoW, what he (Mr. W.)
wished to ask was whether, as the House had no
power to strike the name out of the registry after it
had once been inserted, there was any means by
which this privilege could be enforced ?
The SPEAKER (no answer being given to Mr.
Williams question) proceeded
,to read the orders,
several of which were agreed to seriatim, when
Mr. T.' S. DUNCOMBE said he should take that
opportunity of renewing a notice which he had given
last session of Parliament, of his intention to move
for a Select Committee to inquire whether; in any
counties or boroughs empowered under the Reorm Act
to send Members to the House of Commons, such Mem•
bers were returned through the illegal or unconstitu-
tional interference of Members in the House of Peers ?
Theitight Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exch-
equer said he should be extremely sorry if any altera-
tion were made in the standing resolution, thereby
implying that nothing would horrify him more
than its violation -by any Peer of the realm.
Why, the Right Hon. Gentleman must know per-
fectly well, that there was not a single county
Member, and that there w ,e-c. very, few borough
Members sitting either behind or before him, who
did not previous to their election consult some Peer
or other for the purpose of obtaining his influence
either requesting him by letter, or almost by
supplication on their knees, to concern himself in their-
eleetion.—(Laughter.). lie ventured to say that in
the case of some of the vacancies which had occurred
recently Peers had been consulted and requested .
to concern themselves in the elections; and
if a Peer had not given his consent to , the
individual standing for the borough, which partly
belonged to him, 'he ventured to say that they must
have been deprived of the' present Secretary for
Ireland.—(Latighter.) Yet, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer got up in his place, and with• a solemn
look, and still more solemn . voice, declared
to that .llouse that he should be sorry to
see any alteration made in the existing resolution.
Ile would test the Right Hon. Gentleman's sincerity.
When he moved for the Committee, he would under-
take to prove, as he had said before, that there were
very few Members, either for counties or boroughs, in
whose election Peers had not concerned tLemslves. How
the Right Hon. Gentleman could maintain his gravity
while making such a speech, was to him (Mr. T. Dun-
combe)' utterly inconceivable. If they put the resolu-
tion in force, three-fourths of 'the temporal peers, and
two-thirds of the bishops must be convicted of an in-
fringement. of the privileges of the -House of Com-
mons. What ai mockery, what an insult ' was. it
to pass this resolution unless it Were enforced.
(Hear, hear.) The time had arrived when it should.
be either acted upon or expunged. Ile himself had,
on a former occasion, voted for its being expunged.
He would much rather, for his own part, that
Peers appeared on the hustings, and voted for Mem-
bers of Parliainent. The tnlre they came in contact
with the people, tl,e more would their prejudices be
remov,d. They would find the humble mechanic
and others, who were now deprived of the right of
voting for Members of Parliament, possessing as much
ability and more patriotism than themselves ; they
would find men who did not wish to obtain,
seats in that House for the purpose of acquir-
ing some dirty star or -garter, for the paltry
purpose of obtaining a peerage; or for the
idiotic purpose of securing a baronetcy.
If this resolution were not expunged—if, after this
warning, they still adopted it, they need not be sur-
prised if he called upon the House to act upon it, and
he would in that case promise them that he should
move fur a Committee of the- House to inquire into
its operation and whether its intentions were carried
out at the different elections.
Mr. lIIJME, gild he . had frequently appealed to
that House upon the same subject, how they could
reconcile the spirit of the resolution.with the practice
observed at many elections. That was not a mere
question, as his Eon. Friend (Mr Duncombe) seemed
to think it, for the Minister more thanlor any other:
It happened that a Minister frequently sat on these
benches, having, perhaps, fifty behind him acting as
fuglemen on those occasions. Ile (Mr. Mime) had.
again and again, for many years past, warned the
House upon the subject ; but to hear common sense
appealed to by the Minister was something new, 'and
how; he asked, could this resolution •be maintained
on that principle. He recollected a number of in
stances in which inquiries were instituted before that
House, and in which it had been shown that Peers
had been known to propose , the Members,
and, in fact, of returning them for that House.
He agreed with the Hon. MeMber who had last
spoken, that it would be better if peers were' to go
more among the lower classes—if they were' to 'go
to the public hustings, where they would at least
learn that which would do them considerable good,
namely, the feelings which actuated the lower
classes. Ile was quite prepared to vote for the
abolition of the resolution. •
The gallery was then cleared for a division. None
however took place, and the order was agreed to.
ADMISSION OF STRANGERS TO THE

tion, in fact, had nothing whatever to do
the standing orders on the books of
the house. The exclusion of strangers did not
depend upon the sessional orders. It was a clear
right for any Member to call the attention of the
Speaker to the fact that. strangers were present, and
to revest that they might be ordered to with-
draw. It was an inherent right of each individual
Member, and rested upon the same principle which
wereo present it was in
nMember observed to
the -
gave any Hon.-Members the privilege of moving that
the House be counted, which was immediately done
upon
Pe
and upon the same.
made;
cprinciple,
suchmotion
tpn h
instantthe
eta bei a
t
i m strangersnng
to order them to withdraw. It
was open to the Right Hon. Baronet to move an
amendment to put an end to the latter privilege.
Mr. HUME wished to ask whether any new ar-
rangement had taken place by which the space
allotted for the accommodation of strangers had been
altered as the space already allotted for their accom-
modation, was extremely small.
The SPEAKER said he had not given any order
on the subject. There was great difficulty in making
desirable arrangements regarding the admission of
strangers.
Mr. lIUME. said that, on behalf of the publi., he
would. impress upon the House the necessity of snaking
arrangements more convenient than the present ones.
Those persons who came there to hear the debates
were much exposed to cold, and had scarcely any

room.
The SPEAKER said that every arrangement would
be made for the accommodation of the public con-
sistent with the accommodation of Members of that
House. •
• The question was then put and agreed to.
• PRIVATE COMMITTEES.
Mr. WALLACE begged to call the attention of
the House; especially of those Members belonging to
Committees of Selection, to the waste of time and
money which the present arrangements' of private
Committees involved. • He mentioned last session,
that, in the- instance of- one railway-Billrthe expense
had reached the enormous amount of 100,0001. He
trusted the present session would not pass without
some effectual arrangement being made on the subject.
He was far from impeaching the conduct of Mem-
bers on these Committees, who bestowed the greatest
pains and labour in endeavouring to keep them
in a seasonable condition ; but they had -it not in
their power to do that which they so much desired.
Last session he called the attention of the House to
two private Bills ; the first was the Monkland Rail-
way Bill, the second was the Paisley Gas Bill.
Although these Bills came before the Committees on
March 25th, on July 25th they were yet in the House.
Now this was a fact which could not.be contradicted,
and he would leave it to the House to say whether
it was not its duty to alter such a state of things.
He would contend that the House had the
power to enabled Private-Committees to guard against
such. annoyance. It was not right that. solicitors
should have it in their power to send for counsel after
counsel, thui entailing .enormous expense ; but
while the solicitors had the power, it.would be useless
for parties concerned .in private Bills to expect any
curtailment of these- expenses. He -felt quite con-
vinced that it, would be grsatly. for the benefit of
those private
.companies, if counsel were prohibited
altogether from entering Committee-rooms. He did
believe that this practice gave a facility to 'parties
taking fees, which was not permitted by the
House in Committees on public • business, • and
which tended' materially to increase* the expenses,
and afford. facilities -for delay and procrastination -
which could not otherwise .occur. This was a
practiee that had brought discredit upon this II ,
ouse
and s hich discredit would go on increasing if some
step were not taken •to stop it. The Hon. Member
concluded by calling upon such Memcers of •pris
vete Committees as were then present,-to say.whether
they agreed with him in part or in the whole of what
he ha& said, and by moving for a Select Committee to
ascertain whether they could not suggest some mea-
sure by which to prevent.this dillatory mode of pro-
ceeding with private Bills.
Mr. EWART wished to put .a question to her
Majesty's Government•reletive to the constitution of
Coriimittees of that House upon private Bills. He
wished to seethe Members. of Committees on private
Bills free from all personal interest in the ques-
tions which - had to be .submitted to then..
This principle had been recognised with re-
spect to certain railway Bills; namely, those for
competing lines. Ile had a notice of motion on the
paper upon this question for to-morrow evening, that
the princip!e to which he alluded should he extended
to all Committees on private Bills ; but he wished to
know whether her -Majesty's Government would re-
lieve an individual Member from that responsibility,
which he, however, was ready to take upon himself.
Sir H. PEEL said he Nas not prepared to make
any announcement on the part of the Government
which would relieve the Hon. Gentleman from the
duty which he had undertaken. It would be very
difficult to define what was the direct interest of con-
stituents in Railway Bills, and it would be almost
on, as lie (Sir R. Peel)
impossible to determine what was indirect interest.
He hoped the Hon. Gentleman would wait until
,niveanopinion came
upon the question now.
hwiissheldmtigio
With respect to the observations of the Hon. Gentle-
man (Mr. Wallace), he could only say that it would
be excessively difficult effectually to -
control counsel
with respect to the length of tl • len. addresses.--
(Laughter.) it would be. also difficult to carry out
the lion Gentleman's, other
suggestions. He
(Sir Robert Peel) believed that, in the course
of last session, the sum of 75,000/. was expended
,
in the prosecntion of a railway Bill, which was ulti-
mately thrown out. This Bill, he understood, was to
be again brought forward, and there w •
as every pro-
bability of its succeeding.
Lord HOWICK said he thought there
ought to
be longer time. given for the presentation of petitions
for, railway Bills than for those for-other private Bills.
Unless they adopted that course great inconvenience
and great it-justice would ensue, in consequence of
the adoption of the system of subjecting all railway
Bills to a preliminary examination by the Board of
Trade.--(Hear, hear.) The House was aware that
great decisions on projected railways had already
been arrived at; while the decisions on others
were yet .unknown. Even with respect to those
which- were known, the House and the country
and -the persons interested in those Bills were all left
in ignorance of the grounds on which the recommen-
dations of the Board of Trade were founded. There-
, fore, it would be unjust to call upon those parties to
decide at once whether they would abandon the
measures in which they were interested or noti
' If they now fix the time parties interested in these
measures would be forced either at once to take the
preliminary steps, and to incur great expense in
bringing their Bills before the Ilee„, or they
would be deprived of the opportunity of submitting
such Bills to the fair decision of a Committee. It
was not just to call on these parties to take either of
these decisions at present—(Herr, hear)—for he
believed that if'' they should find that the reports of
the Board of Trade were founded upon good and
adequate reasons the parties interested would not
commit the mistake of incurring a useless expendi-
ture of money in bringing their Bills forward. But,
on the other hand, it might happen that some of these
decisions would not prove satisfactory, and parties before
they determined to abandon their scheme, had a right
to canvass the grounds of the recommendation of the
Railway -Department of the Board of Trade.-
-(llear, hear.) He urged f his argument on the pre-
sumption that the Government and the House did
not intend that the decisions of that Board should be
final.—(Hear, hear.) When lie looked to- the report
of the Select Committee of last year he found
it distinctly laid down- that tha Board of Trade
was not to decide on the merits of Railway Bills
but was merely to investigate the representations
made, and to report to the House, stating facts and
opinions for the information and guidance of
Parliament, and for the purpose .of assisting
Parliament in coming to its decision. Such
had been the decision of the Committee of last
year. When the arrangement was recommended to
the house -by the Right Hon. Gentleman the late
President of the Board of Trade, he did not
propose it for the purpose •of increasing
the • influence of the Board, but for the purpose
of aiding and assisting the judgment. of the House.
There was an order of the House, that if any report
from the Board of Trade relating to a Railway Bill be
laid before the House, such report should be referred
to tie Committee on the Bill. It was perfectly clear
what was the view of Parliament in agreeing to the
arrangement made-last year. He belied the arrange-
ment-would continue; but he saw symptoms in what
was going on out of doors that an authority was
ascribed to these reports Of the Board of Trade,
which would be attended with great inonvenience,
and to which he desired to call the attention of the
House. No one was more anxious than he to im-
prove the system of private legislation, in which he
knew great abuses had grown up. He approved
of the recommendation of last year, but he thought
that the Board of Trade . should be„ confined
to the preliminary investigation of railway projects,
in which they might obtain valuable information for
the House, upon measures in which large in-
terests-,were concerned. But if, instead of being
merely advisers to Parliament, this Board
was to have an authority in determining
upon Railway • Bills—if their reports were to
be couclusive as to what Bills should be adopted, and
what. rejected, that would be the creation-of a new
. authority which Parliament never contemplated.
Was the Hhouse aware what was the amount of the
interest involved in these questions between competing
lines ? He would give the House one instance, that of
the London anti York Railway. In that company the
shares were 60,000, and these shares had been the
subject of dealing on the Stock Exchange. Bafrgain
o 2
were made in them at the rate

premium on each share, conditioned on the I
report of the Board of Traipe—that was to
say, that if this report, which wa, ; regarded :as con-
clusive, should prove favourable to the plan, it would
add 201. to the value of each of these 60,000
shares. Thus the deteriniaation arrived at
in an internal department of the Government
in the absence of all the parties concerned, would
effect the transfer of no less a sum than 1,300,000/.
from the pockets of one set of persons to those of another,
was a judgment involving such sums to Le pro..
nounced, by such a tribunal as the Board of Trade.—
(Hear, hear.) . Ile found no fault with the BOard of
Trade possessing certain, functions ; but such
a tribunal was utterly. urfitted for pronouncing
an opinion on subjects involving such enor-
mous Ennis. He could show them a particular
instance in which the sum staked was not
less 1,200,0001., and that was only one out of a mul-
titude of cases; and would it be said that those re•
ports were to be conclusive on subjects involving the
disposition of millions ? They (the Board of Trade)
disposed- of sums compared with which the sums ad-
judicated upon by the Lord Chancellor and all the
Judges of Westminster Hall sunk into insignificance.
But was that department constituted in a manner so
that they could ,ay it ought to Le intrusted with such
enormous responsibility. What did it consist of?
There was at its head a nobleman of high character and
ability, but who possessed little experience, and there
were assisting him four gentlemen scarcely of higher
official rank.than chief clerks in the _Public depart-
ments. One of theoe gentlemen was, he believed,
placed in that department from being private - se-
cretary to the Eight Honourable Gentleman op-
posite. Was a Board, having to dispose of such
encrmous interests, and thus constituted the
proper tribunal for the purpose—(Hear, hear).
And it was not merely that . the tribunal was
improperly coustituted. He said that none of their
proceedings were such as to make their decisions, if
..they were to be taken as decisions, in matters of this
nature, satisfactory.—(Hear, hear) He happened to
be unwillingly forced into connexion with a.
railway project, . and being concerned .in the pr 0...,
motion of that railway; project, he could speak
from experience unto the course adopted. It was
this, the promoters of Bills sent in a short statement
of the ground on which they proposed their measure.
That was followed by depositing in the Board of
Trade plans and sections giving full details of the
nature of the scheme. Before -any decision
was pronounced on their case, the case of the oppo-
nents of the Bill were made known. And after they
knew that case, the promoters of the measure put
forward a rebutting. case. The case of their oppo-
nents was to be put in before the 30th of
November; and the . favourers of the Bill
concluded, that before any decision was pro-
nounced by the department of the Board of
Trade, they would be informed of what the
case was which- had been sent in by the other side,
the allegations of which they would then be prepared
to answer. The session of Parliament was coming
near : sever.l decisions had been pronounced, and
they began to think they would be. pronounced upon
after the case of their opponents was known. Accord-
ingly they applied for an interview with the. Board of
lie had to acknowledge this extreme courtesy with
which he and the other Members of the de-
puta'ion were, on very short notice, received
by . the Board, They. knew nothing of the
plans of their Opponents except from the
public newspapers and the plans deposited with
the clerk of the peace. They stated very shortly. the
reasons why, in their judgment, their own scheme
was entitled to preference, and having done so they.
retired. Before they did so, however, one of.. the
gentlemen who composed the deputation ob-
served .to the President of the Board of
Trade, that he expected that they would have
been called upon to answer the case of their oppo-
nents. The reply of the President of the Board
was one of great importance. He said, " That is not
our course. There being such a multitude of projects,
it would be physically, impossible for us to hear the
comments of the _parties upon the opposing plans."
No doubt that was perfectly true. It would be 'phy-
sically impo,sible for tie 13(.ard of Trade to hear all
.the arguinents in favour of the conflicting schemes.

and precedence to Dr. Croly and Dr. Murray in the
Commission, he thought the Noble Earl would have
rated him soundly ; he thought that no railroad could
carry the No'ale Earl to the House fast enough to state
his surprise and indignwion at so extraordinary an inno-
vation. The Noble Earl had rated him in the noose
ino,t soundly for having given Voce and title to the
Catholic Bishop of Quebec; and the Noble Lords who
supported the present Government foi the most part
concurred in censuring him (Lord Normanby) on that
occasion. However, he concurred with the Noble Lords
opposite in the propriety of placing the Catholic bishops
in the Commission, with the acknowledgment of their
authority over those dioceses., the limits of which they
would have to fix. He had always thought that the dis-
tinction which prevented the Catholic bishops from as-
suming their titles was childish and impolitic. As well
as he recollected the tenour of the Act of Parliament,
they were forbidden to assume any titles not authorised
by. law. Now, with respect to the title of Archbishop
of Team, what was there to prevent Dr. M‘Hale from
assuming that title? There was no Archbishop of
'Tam authorised by law, and therefore Dr. M-Hale's
assumption of the title could not interfere with other
rights. What reason could there be why Dr. Murray
and Dr. Crolly should not be allow el to assume the title
of bishops? Another word as to Ireland—as to the
passage in the speech, that there wouki shortly be laid Le•
fore the House the report of the Tenure of Land Commis-
sion. Now, there Lordships would recollect that in the
course of lest session, he (the Marquis of Normanby)
had expressed his regret that so little information had
been obtained by the Commission, and that he be-
lieved it would not effect the object for
which it had been appointed. He believed
that most exaggerated expectations had been rai ed by
it which never could be realised. He did not think that
the report would give any. valuable information, but he
thought it was most desirable that it should be laid be-
fl:re the House as speedily as possible, in order to give
the Government an opportunity of stating whether they
intended to produce any measures on the subject, and
what the nature of those measures would be, in order to
allay the excitement which prevailed from the erroneous
and unfounded expectations to which the Commission
had given rise, and which had done, perhaps, more mis-
chief than the political agitation which prevailed before.
He believed that the agitation on this subject would not
have arisen but • for the ill-timed appointment of the
Commission. Ile was ready to admit that the political
agitation had in some degree subsided ; but he believed
it would not have arisen to the height which it reached
if it had not been for the injudicious appointments made
by the Government. lie would not now allude to that
subject further than to say that it had been made matter
of an attack on him in that House, that the agitation was
increased in the time of his government. But he had
repeatedly shown from unquestionab!ft documents that the
agitation had decreased, and that crime. also had consi-
derably diminished during his administration. He had
also always stated that the present Government was not
to be blamed forAhe agitation which prevailed in its
time, as that was to be traced to the mismanagement of
previous Government§ for ages past. • In respect to other
topics, he concurred with the Noble Lords opposite,
that every one must feel satisfaction at the gratifying
state of manufactures and commerce. But, at the same
time, they should not forget that this prosperity was iu
the regular ebb and flow of prosperity following adver-
sity, which they always were accustomed to witness.
Let them hope that the periodical return of prosperity
would continue longer than usual. But let not the Go-
vernment claim credit for it, unless they could show that
they had prevented the recurrence of depression and
distress, -which usually followed upon the period of
prosperity and activity. He concurred, also, in the satis-
faction of the Noble Lords opposite at the good under
standing which existed with France and other countries.
IVith respect to France, he felt that there was a feeling
so sensitive connected with that subject, that he would
best promote the good understanding by saying no more
than that no one could be more anxious than he was for
the maintenance of peace with France and the rest of
the world. Perhaps it might be unusual to allude to the
personal visits of foreign sovereigns. But he would say
that the .:visits of two Sovereigns; so remarkable for
their personal characters and . elevated positions,
were matters of cordial congratulation.—(Hear.)
In recurring. to a notice of the periodical returns of
prosperity and adversity, he could not- but take some
credit fur the Government of whiCh he had formed a
part, in devising the measures which, while they took
some time in bringing forth the fruits n'f their results;
were not the less sure of doing so,.and, if they had at
length been productive of good to Ireland; no one would
rejoice more heartily with those who prepared her Ma-
j„ty's speech than himself, and those friends•on that
side of the House with whom he had the honour to act.
He rejoiced to perceive that there was a clause in her
Majesty's speech, referring to the measure which •was
passed last session, for promoting the health of the in-
habitants of large towns, and he saw that the words
which on this subject had been put into her mouth,
were in accordance with that deep and intense feeling
for the welfare of her subjects, which' all knew to be in
perfect unison with that greatnesS and benevolence of
character which was one of the_ most ..honourable fea-
tures of her mind. He rejoiced in this, and sin-
cerely and earnestly hoped that the measures which
might be brought forward, would tend to promote that
happiness and health among- the people which were ne-
cessary to insure that physical power which once dis-
tinguished the lower orders of this country, and enabled
them to achieve their ancient renown, and which toge-
ther with the moral rectitude by which they had been
characterised, constituted their chief greatness. With
this hope he most heartily concurred in the recommen-
dation of the speech, and trusted it would be carried
into effect-.

The Duke cf RICHMOND was unwilling to intrude
on their Lordships' attention, but there was one omit •
sion in the address which he felt compelled to notice.
The address congratulated their Lordships on the im-
proved condition of the country, and he would not pre-
tend to say but that in some respects ther2 was great
cause for congratulation, but surely her Majesty's Go-
vernment would not pretend to say that there was no
distress in the agricultural districts of the country ?
The Board of Trade was the medium through which
any communication froin Government we's received by
the manufacturers, but there was no such medium be-
tween the Government and the agriculturists. He
could state from his own knowledge that great dis-
tress then, existed amidst the agricultural tenantry, and
he certainly thought that the speech should have
directed that inquiry be instituted upon the subject.
He hoped that if the income-tax were continued the
agriculturist would be excluded from its operation, for it
was a moral impossibility that a tenant with only 1001.
a year could stand it.—(Hear.) The farmer at present
lost instead of gaining. If they made the inquiries
he prayed for, they would find that what he had stated
of existing agricultural distress was but too true, not
in any isolated spot, but in the different parts of the
country.—(Hear, hear.)

TheDulie of MONTROSE said that any alteration
of the present currency in Scotland would be viewed
with the utmost distrust by the commercial men there,
and he regretted exceedingly that her Majesty's speech
expressed an intention on the part of the Government to
interfere with it. - The- same feelings actuated all classes
in that country, that any alteration of it would be altoge-
ther unnecessary, more especially when not a word of
complaint had been uttered by any person to the present
system, and when great complaints had been expressed
to the English banking system. It appeared to him sin-.
gularly strange, that Government should interfere in
that case at 11, when, by so doing, they were assured
the advantages then resulting from the system would by
any such alteratior. be completely lost. The merchants
of Scotland were decidedly opposed to any alteration in
the system, and therefore he hoped that any change pro-
posed would be trivial, and not of great importance.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE could not let tke remarks, or,
more properly, questions of the Noble Lord who had last
spoken, pass unanswered. With respect to the remarks
of his Noble Friend who sat in front (the. Duke of Rich-
mond), who stated that he thought her Majesty's
speech, in r, ference to the improvement of the country,
should in that consider the state of the agricultural dis-
tricts. He spoke of the state of the farmers as not being
very flourishing. He (Lord Wharncliffe) thought that
when the state of the country was referred to, it more
particularly meant the condition of Manufactures and
commerce. With respect to that part of the Queen's
speech that spoke of the banking system in Scotland, it
did not say any change in the currency ; and he there-
fore wished to set the Noble Duke right in that parti-
cular. He should be sorry if anything should arise to
disturb the unanimity which seemed at that time to pre-
vail in the House, and therefore he would add nothing
further on, the subjects referred to.
Lord BROUGHAM did not wish to prolong the de-
bate, but as several topics in the speech had been adver-
ted to by the Noble Marquis (Normanby) behind hini,
he (Lord Brougham), inasmuch as they were very
vaguely mentioeed in tho speech, would also make
few remarks upon them. One of these was a very gra-
tifying one—he meant that of the financial state of the
country. No one more rejoiced than himself in the pre-
sent improved condition of the labouring classes of the
country ; and their Lordships might remember that it
was but two short years since he had felt it to be his
duty to bring before that House the misery and distress
which prevailed among the lowest because the largest
classes of the country. The contrast which appeared at
that time, from the state of thing when he had called
their Lordships' attention to the subject, was most gra-
tifying, and it was the more gratifying that such itn—
provement was not confined to one or two branches of
the community, but was perfectly general over the excise
and customs, those two great indications of the pros-
.perity of the kingdom.—(Cheers.) Nothing, therefore,
could possibly be more gratifying than this improve-
ment, for by reference to the financial state of the
country they would observe that the last year showed a
considerable increase over the year preceding, and that
again over the one that went before, as did that last over
the year 1841, thus exhibiting a fact which could not
bat be peculiarly pleasing, satisfactory, and, what was
more, trustworthy—trustworthy inasmuch as the im-
provement was a progressive and not a sudden one.—
(Cheers.) He was led to speak of the income-tax, but
he must be distinctly understood as not pledging him-
self in favour of any motion of the Noble Marquis's,
whom he had heard for the first time that day with
great pleasure. He was a worthy scion of his illustrious
line, and none of them could forget the one who sat in
that House, and that other whom no subject of
these realms ought to name but with a feel-
ing of admiration for his splendid generosity—a
generosity never to be surpassed, scarcely ever to
be equalled—(Hear, hear)—but which, he was sorry to
say, from the thoughtlessness of mankind, had never
properly been made the subject of a nation's gratitude.
—(Cheers.) In giling his .concurrence to the address
he did not pledge himself to a continuance of the income-
tax ; for his compliance depended greatly upon the other
taxes, whether those might be added or remitted.' 'fill
they should see the plans which were intended to be laid
down, he thought it would be improper and inexpe-
dient to say whether the income-tax should be repealed