The Sun.
London, England, 1816-05-24 00:00:00

USURY LAWS.

Mr. SerjeanLONst.ow rose, porsuant to notice,
to move for leave to bring in a pill to repeal the
Usury Laws. Until the time 'of Henry VIII.
there had been n 9 laws against Usury ; and bi-
det:id it was to him a matter of surprise how they
could ever have been enacted. But it was asto-
nishing, to what extent the prejudice, agaiost tak-
ing interest for money lent, bad prevailed: Di•
vines had in former times been particularly se-
vere in their abtise of Usury., one of them having
said, that those who rook interest tor money were
.dogs,:ntonsters, viper , and devils. (A laugh.)
This prejudice evert extended to the Jntlres. who
so late as the reign ot James I. had declared that
to take interest for money Was infamous and
criminal. In later times, My. Locke had given
adthority against the Usury Laws.,
by stating that it was as inipossible to fix the rate
ot interest by law, as to fix the price of any com-
modity. There was also the authority of Air,
Bentham positively against the expediency,nt
these laWs. Experience,- too, proved that these.
laws were perfectly inefficient. Dr. Adam Smith
was of opinion that unless there was borne fixed
rate of interest, there would he nothing but pro-
digals and
.projecrors ; but this was completely
'refuted. by Mr. Beuthain. On the whole, he
thOught that,the laws were founded- on the re
mains of of- superstition—on a..profound igtiolance
of 'political economy.; that they were quite in-
efficient, as means were found to evade them,
and productive of serious evil. He therefore moved
forleave to bring in a Ltill,to repeal them.
Tile CIWWELLOIt of the FAcnitsaueß.—A! Par-
liament had: horroWctl motley to the extent Pf
150,000,0001., it certainly, would' be a very unsafe
experiment to repeal those laws under the opera-
tion of which these Loans had been effected. 'Tic
amount of our public debt was so enormous,, and
bad so extensive an infinenee on all the money
`transactions in .the kingdoin,' that there was the
strongest reason to ttoubt" whether altering: anV
.part of the system under which the debt was con-
Iraoted'would not have :the worst Consequences.
The creditors of the State would certainly. have
good reason to colaplain if the course was ,„,,v
changed, and there: would he a want of equity
and' gnod faith on the part of Parliament if it
made such a change. The effect upon time public
credit, too,--would be very injurious; not that lie
would state this positively, but at leasi it ought
not to be risked: It had been truly stated that
the laws were evaded ; but Sill!, upon the whole,
they served as a rule of direction. As to the hate
cd by those laws, there was a ti me wue.ti. money

could be obtained below the legal rate ; nor was '
there any reason to suppose that it was not a good
medium rate upon the whole. Practically the al-
teration proposed by the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman would produce no advantage, and it would
cause au uncertainty at first, would be
very injerions. He therefore found it his duty tN
move the previous question.
Mr. BARING observed, that, the Chancellor of,
the Ext.licqttet had said that the public credit
would be affected by the repeal of the Usury
Laws, but bad not pointed out how this effect
could be produced. For 'his own part he did not
see how it was possible that the repe rl should
have this effect. It it was supooSed that the ets
feet would be to cause some stock-holders to I
withdraw their money froin the funds for the pur-
pose of having it laid out at interest on the secu-
rity of landed property, he thought such nil effect
would he very beneficial. At present the lauded
proprietors, not being able to get money at the
legal rate, were obliged to have recourse to means
to obtain trimmest at the rate of 16 or 12 per cent.
He would not take up the time Of the, House-in
describing the different modes of evading the law
for the purpose of obtaining an exorbitant inte-
rest ; but be thought it would be proper to appoint
a Committee to inquire I the subject. it
seemed to be forgot thatGoVerment borrowed money
at fi per cant. and at the same time regulated the
Money market, while any rate above 5 per cent.
was contrary to law. As to the motion now he-
fore the House, he dill feel some objection to it,
an account of the time at which it was brought for-
ward, as owing; to a 'variety of causes the looney
market was now in such a state, and money was
so scarce, that mortgagees were calliag in their
money. In a year or two he thought it very pro-
bable, that the circumstances which occasioned
mortgage money to he dais called in, would pass
away, and then a motion of this kind might
be adopted. 'Oim this account he would feel it
his duty to vote against the motion, although he
agreed in the priu'ciple,- He thought great be-
. netits would result to commerce from the re-
peal of the usury laws. As 'a proof of this,
he referred to experience, nod from what .was
the case in those countries where -there were
no usury laws, as Vin them the rate of in-
terest was lower than the legal rate in this
country ; fOr instance, in Holland it was only 4
per cent. As to the present question, he would
rather the motion, were favourably received by the
House—that ise in such a way that it should not
be Absolutely negatived, but rather deferred to
some more propel, time.
Mr. PRESTON opposed the motion, and reprov-
ed the infamous system of annuity 'transactions.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT contended. that the argu-
mertts urged against the motion tended 'to prose
its propriety. The means of evading the pressure
of high rate of interest, which time laws were in-
tended to prevent, were more grievous than that
pressure would prove if those laws did not exist.
In a country like this, that hail flourished through
commercial enterprize, it .would be sufficiently
safe to let. the trader consult his own interest,
which would be ',that of the country, without
binding him by legislative enactments. Let .him
procure money, us any other commodity, on the..
best terms he could, and the'real interests of the
community would he consulte.d. It had been Said,
would you depart froin the Statute Book ? But,
if the Statute Book had never been departed from,
by th'e side of the USUry.Lawi regul4tions against,
Solerers would still be found in force.
The ATTORNIIY-GENERAL said, that the real
question was, whether the House should at once,
at this period of the Session„ adopt a measure
that would' produce such important alterations in
Uhl money transactions, or whether, As it was pro.
posed on the other side,- it should postpone. the
consideration of it to a. time when it could be.
properly investigated. It appeared to him that..
all the arguments used, by the Hon. Gentlemen
opposite, spewed the propriety of taking a due
consideration of the subject under all its bearings..
He was not in a proper condition at present to
giVe a decislie (volition either for or against the ,
continuance of the Usury Laws, 'but he should
have no difficulty in voting for the previous
(ion, in,order to obtain time for investigation.
Mr. ARERCEOI4I4IB, supported the, motion. He
agreed that in the first instance the measure might
produce a great shock, and' perhapi,' even raise
the,rate of interest ; hut he was convinced that
it would ultimately and permanently
,decrease it.
He suggested the propriety of introduciug into the
Bill some provision-to protect those who had: al-
ready borrowed Money, against the first effect 'of
the measure.

The ATTORKEY-GmNERAL explained.
Mr. PONSONBY thought the author of the pro-
posed measure entitled to the thanks of the com-
munity. He was convinced that the extravagance
of many young men was much more destractive
to them at present than if there .were no laws to
regulate the rate of interest. Ile did not think
it practicable to introduce any proviskon in the
Bill, to protect those who Wad aleendy borrowed
money, hut the measure itself would provide a
remedy, because the mortgagee would have it in
his power to give as good security as the mott-
gager.might hope to procure in any other quar-
ter. Ile wished the measure, however, not to
be pressed on without due time for consideration.
Mr. FINLAY supported the motion, but was
anxious for inquiry upon the subject.
Mr. 13, finnw objected to the Usury Laws, on
the'grounri, amongst others, that persons of the
best character were liable to violate them through
ignorance, and must then sacrifice the money-they
had lent, in order to preserve what was far dearer
to them than Money; their, reputation. If Usury
Laws were to exist, they ought to-be made so
plain that he..who ran might read. He coincided
entirely with the sentiments of the Honourable
and Learned Geatleman who- had brOught the
measure before the House.
The ATTOIINEY,GENERAL, and Mr. Sn,w mu-
tually explained.

After Some ohserrat,iona from Mr. MART2N,
1411(1 General THORNTON, Sergeant ONSLoW re-
plied, and moved for leave to withdraw his tun-
tlon, giving notice, that at a future period be
should bring nn the metoure, when he hoped for
unanimity, Tt:e motion Was filen A6tEadrAwn, as

Ise Chantellor of the tixcneqw

'well RS that of t
for the previous question.
PROTESTANTS IN THE SOUTH OF FRANCE.
Sir S. ItaisalLLY could have wished that the task
he had undertaken had devolved upon abler hands;
lint as no other Member had taken up the subject,
he thoualst it would have been much to be la-
mented. had the Session been suffered to termi-
nate without its being brought under the notice
of the House: Various reports bad been spread
abroad of the cotnmission of acts of cruelty .in
the South of France, which had made a deep im-
pressing upon the 'country. Subicriptions had'
accoraiogly been taken Up, and Meetings beets
held to consider of the best means of affording
relief' to the unhappy sufferers. /t appeared, how-
ever, afterwards, that these meetings had beets
thought improper by Ministers, and a check had
been given to them. That had • chiefly been ,
owing to a letter of the Duke of Wellington, in
which it was stated, that every possible stepbad
been taken by the French Government, to pre-
vent and put a stop to the persecutions of the
Protestant's, and to secure them in the enjoyment ,
of their religious rights, and that the public its •
this country should not lightly interfere. The.
Common Council of London had voted an address"
to the Prince Regent on thiS subject, which had'
been graciously received, but the answer was,
that there was no ground to interfere on the part
of this Government. lie did not mean to crimi-
nate, Ministers, nor did he believe that bad they
known the state of the case, and the conduct of
the French Government, a conduct so odious and"
detestuble, they would have disguised the evcao
that lfifil taken place. .VI that he imputed
to
them was, an over-credulity to the representa-
tions of the French Government. Ile made that
statement from no party motive ; but in, conse-
quence of .1-4CtS he had learned from persons near
the scene, and from letters received from that spot.
After all the pains he had taken upon this subject,
lie could see no danger from a 1110(100 of this
na
ture, though it had been asserted that mischief
might arise from it to the party meant to be yea
lieved. But he was unable to sec how it could by
possibility be injurious to the suffering partY,
however it might he annoying to their persecu-
tors. The letter of the, Duke of Wellington hall
struck the Protestants with consternation, as it
tended to deprive them of their last hope. Wretch-
ed, indeed, must the situation of the sufferers be,
if British sympathy was injurious to their cause.
But aothing, was so likely to afford them security,
and for a short time the manifestation of opinion by
theßritish public bad been attended with that effect.
It was important to know if the persecution bad
been owing to political or religious motives, and
if the French Government had afforded protects
lion to the sufferers. In the department of La
Garde, the most melancholy events bad taken plates
though be was far from maintaining:that any ge-
neral persecution of the Protestants bad taken
place throughout France. The situation a that
part of France at the restoration of Louis XVIU.
had been of a particular nature. That was the ,
first part where the doctrines of Protestanism hack
appeared even prior to the reformation itself,'
amidst the mountains of the Cevennes. The fold!
14wers of these opinions had remained unmolest•
eft till the time of the reformation; when they
::United with the followers of Luther. The Press*
.dent of Aix passed upon them a sentence of con-
deamation,•their villages were destroyed, and the -
first blood was sited at the end of the reign of
Francis First. The effects of that persecution
spread thethselves over all Fiance, in the wars
of the Huguenots, till, by the Edict of Nants,
their religious liberty was fully secured. .At
Nismes, a majority of the inhabitants at that
time were Protestants. In 1685, the Edict d
• Nato; was revokes by Louis Fourteenth,
ed by his .Mitiister Louvois. The mode or
conversion then adopted was by means of fira'„
goons, and it was reported to Louis, that all
France was Catholic. Atterwards the Protestants
wet c proceeded against, not simply as Protestants, • •
but as relapsed heretics. Under the operation of
that system, they continued till 1787, two yeah
before the revolution, all found in a Protestant
meeting being liable to lie sent to the gallies
and in a memorial to the French Ministry, it 'watt
stated; as a proof of clemency and forbearance's •
that only eight Protestant Ministers had been
hanged from 1745 to 1770. Government could
take away their children, and a child of the age 00
seven years could adopt the Catholic faith. The
marriage of Preoestants Were annulled, and the hus-
band was sent to the gallies. Louis XVI. was de-
sirous of amelioratingtheirunhappylot, and his Ali-
nisters were eagerto second his views .but prevented.
by the catastrophe, which all must deplore. The
first act of theaevolution bad been to relieve tho'
Protestants, and a Protestant was elected presia
dent of the national assembly. It was natural for
them to adhere to a revolution, from which they
received such advantages, though all that bad
been said as to their, being Buonapartists was tin`
founded. When the revolution bad degenerated
into acts of tyranny, under the name of Janos':
the Protestants no longer approved of it, and no'
Protestant bad voted for the death of the Kingt.
except with the limitation (which the believem
the most likely way to save his life) of an aptleol
to the people. 94it of 130 guillotined at one time
by Roberspierre. 100 were Pi otestants. Thep.
polittion of Nismes was 45,000, of which 30,00
were Catholics, and the test Protestants. b
May, 1790, some acts. of violence had taket)'
place betwixt the adheveats of the two religionts'
and in the earlier period of the revolution; but
. nothing of the kind had occurred after 1790.-"...
In the year 1802, Buoneparte pieced the Prod'.
tesjanta upon the same tooting with the Car
tholics ; that had been telt by them as 'a great bv-
netit, their gratitude for which could not be
blamed, though the persecution against theta
seemed to have proceeded a priori, upon the gar
position that they must be attached to Buonapart"
front the benefit he had f conferred upon them. 1"
tier Protestant had been appointed commandant ac
Prefect of a department, and they only tilled sob'
ordinate offices. No peculiar favour had Wl'
shewn to the Protestioits, as they were, o"it
.placed on an equal footing c, itti the Catholic'-
In April, 1814, Louis the Eighteenth was r" -.-
stored, at which time Buonaparte had hecom*
odious to the Protestants at Ntsnr.s, osll 146
A to
in other planers, from. their being' -

er conduct zit. tour women t: NevUnt 4;11411,1,P.
A proclamation %seas next pualished, offerlling. three
thonsimil francs to any person or persons who
Should take the assassin of General Le ,-Ittrtle,
or 'mike his name known ;' ltis name at that
time was Wa because he Lad been ad-
vertised, in l'lscre, by name. It was Clear, be
said, not withstantlitp, " the proelamations, thittbo.
steps were taken to bring to justice the persons
offending. Thc'Protestants had been' misled .ivit
ii
respect to the opening of their temples, and at the
last proclamation the_Prefect and iilliiibitituts of
Nistnes had received amnesty for the past. lie
Was not able to state that the PrOtestants were
then in a state of security. No -outrage of a nir-
derobs description had been committed since De-
cember; but he understood from a Gentleman at
Nistues, in March last, that the Protestants weve
driven away from the public vittlks ; the prisons
were tilled by that unitappynlescript ion of pet sous,
who, in almost every instance, bad been cow-
mitted on the charge of uttering seditious words.
There was evidently no anxiety on the part of the
Government to support the Protestants, but; on
the contrary, there was great delay in bringing the
murderers to justice. He thought the time might.
come %%lien all those persons who had plodoCed
the. horrors of Nismes, would be again let loose.
It was not his intention to addresithe Crown on
the subject, but he was desirous of knowing what
communications had been matte by the Govern-
menc of France to this :wintry, on the excesses
in the of France. Iu that view, 'he should

ly more than their proportion of teas, rind
leir joy was unanimous at the return at the
But in the course of ten months, a change
opinion had taken place adverse to toe Protest,.
as, and mention was often made of the neces-
ty of a new order of things, by a return to the
at
wer system. But by the Charter much security
'as ant ded to the Protestants, and from the "Y
which it had been confirmed by the King, they,
miceived that security to have been increased,
specially when combitted with the circumstance of
Ite long residence of the King in a Protestant
It, the beginning of 1815 the Protest-
aus began to be insulted in the streets O 1 account
if their religion ; mention was made of the ne-
:essity of a new St. Bartholomew's Day, and that
he hands of the. Catholics should be washed in
he hlooti of the Protestants. Soon after Burma-
'Atte appeared, and the Protestants expressed the
itine determination to support the King with his
:-.:atholie subjects. The declaration of the municipal
Jody at Nismes was signed by all the Protestant Mi-
dstrts, and the whole body breathed the most
ardent loyalty to the King. Soon after the Duke
Angottleme made his appearance in the_ South
)1 France, and it was said that the Protestants
lial not join his standard. Many Protestants, in-
aeed, did not join him, from the alarm under
which they were front the treatment they bad ex-
perienced, but no Protestant was admitted into
the Guards. From the 3d of Aptil; when Blt-
naparte resumed the Government, up to the 15th'
.Lily, it was contended that acts of violence
had been committed by the Protestants, 'and that
*hat followed on the part of the ,Catholics was
only in the way of retaliation and revenge. But
no act of violence had been done by the Protes-
tants in the town of Nismes, though, no doubt,
Li some quarters there bad been acts of violence
on both sides. On the 15th of July the Duke of
A agoulume's army retarned to Nismes, and many
of the soldiers in the town, who had laid down
their arms, were massacred in cold blood ; the
Louses were pulled down; the furniture destroy-
ed, coutributions were levied, the manufacturers
teined, and the vineyards pulled up by the-roots.
A woman, far advanced in pregnancy, had been
put to death by torture ; and out of thirty other
women that had been subjected to death by tor-
ttue, eight had died under it-200 pet sons had been
Intirdered, and 2000 driven into banishment.. No
step whatever had been taken, to bring the au-,
%hunt of these atrocities to justice. An old man
had been thrown over the ballustrades of hips-
own house, then dragged to the door, and some
signs of life still appearing, had' been trampled to
*tenth. Five persons had .been murdered at one
time, and several at rosother. A wretch of the
statue of Trestaillon, who had been a principal
actor in these, horrible scenes, asked woman if
Ire could see her husband who was then sick
confine(' to his bed ; being admitted, through'
fear., he pulled out a pistol, and shot hint dead !
That man had been twice in custody, and hall not
yet been punished. They came to a resolution
att Nismes, that no Protestant„should be admitted
into the National Guard, and that all but the Nit-
Culla' Guard should be disarmed. A dead body
had been dug out of the grave, and treated iii the
tuost brutal manner. ‘Vhat,steps had been taken
by the French Government to put a stop to
`these excesses ? The then Prefect of La Garde
took. no steps whatever, and another was appoint-
ed, who at first seemed inclined to adopt mea-
sures of severity, when an insurrection was likely.
to take place. The severity was relaxed, Tres-
taillou was released, like another Barabbas, at the
desire of the people, and after some time.the Pre-.
feet became popular. Could it then be said that
all possible steps had been taken by the French
Government 1 On the 17th of August acts of vio-
lence had been. renewed ; on the 21st the elections
'were to take place, and .on the lath muny had
beep murdered. On the 20th of August the Na-
tional Guards bad been reviewed, and on the 24th
twenty-four companies of infantry and one of
cavalry marched into the town'. A sufficient force
'Was thus in the bands of the Prefect, had he chosen
to avail himself of it. Upon the arrival of the
Austrians in Nistoes, complete tranquillity was re-
stored They left it on the 15th Oct. and the:next
(fey Trestaillon entered the town, at the head of a
party, when he was taken into custody, and sent
away nobody knew whither'. Not a single mint
had been punished of those concerned in these
larders. The lion. and Learned Geotleinan pro-
eeeded to read set eral proclamations issued by the
Ptefect and Mayor of Nismes, palliating the ex,
tesses that had been committed, and stating that
the popular spirit had not been disgraced by•
spirit of robbery,—(par nn esprit de brigandage.)---
't lie Hon. and Learned Gentleman adverted to the
4ttaek on General Lc 'Garde by the Catholics un
the 12th of November, at Nismes ; avid calling the
attention of the House to the proclamations which
followed, be contended that there had been a
studied concealment of the enormities committed
on the Protestants, and an endeavour to avoid
brittging the anurdercrs to intnishinent: lie ad-
rnitted that he was deficient in extensive informa-
tion, in consequence of the &fficulty under which
the French press laboured. There had been no
possibility of obtaining any thing like a true pub-
lication of the unfortunate events which had dis-
turbed the department of the Garde. The difficulty
txtisoivieg to the VrenchGovernment,which did not
suffer any statementin favour of the Protestants to
appear. The police were ever vigilant to sun--
press every paragtaph having thae;tentiettcy. -Tbe
smile cention was observed in the French Senate.
Ile (Sir S. Romilly) was in the Assembly of De-
puties, when one of the members, M.D'Argenson
moont6l the tribune to disclose the state of the
country, and the eirettmatances connected with
the disturbances in the South. A great part of
the Assembly rose in consequetwe, and though
thee "were 'ready to admit the proposition that the
coootry was disturbed, they insisted that M.
D'Areenson sltojlld be called td order, fur daring
speak of miseries in the South.
.Such was the
conduct of • the -Chamber of Deputies only four-
, tieen days bcfore General •Le Garde was wounded.
?he iltcmpt to assassinate that Officer was made
on the 12th of November, laid when time news
reached Paris, it was received with indignation.
=mt. Ltreat ltoptlists, as th','Y were termed, pub
the Quotidienne an article, in which they
tineertook to 'prove the disturbance was only
IL; effect of an alii:ay, occasioned by the hivroz

tnove—
" That an bumble address be presented to hisnoyal IliA-
ness the Prince Regent, praying be would give directions to
be kid before the 1-louse, copies and extracts of all commu-
nications received, relative to the Protestants in the South of
France."
If there should be arty objection to the motion,
still he should rejoice that he had made it.' lie
was glad that he gave his Majesty's Ministers an
opportunity of communicating some information
on events which had been studioeily conceided.
He was anxious to bear (as the Duke. of Wel-
lington stated in his letter) that the French Go.
vernment had. done all it could do to put an
end to these. excesses. The unhappy Protest-
ants suffering in France were objects to whom the
benevolent intentions' of this country might well
he extended. They had exerted themselves in
behalf of the natives of Africa, and certainly they
Could not refuse to interfere for Europeans perse-
cuted for their rCligiouS tenets. At the moment
the horrible scenes were passing iu Languedoc,
two Protestant armies were in Paris. The Icing
'could "not look out of the palace windows without
seeing cannons loaded ready to deluge the streets
with blood in case of insurrection.. Deep would
be the responsibility, it With the power iu our
hands we did nit interfere, in order to prevent a
recurrence of the melancholy calamity of Nisnies.
The Protestant iiihabitants of that city were now
obliged to be jostled in the streets by the noir-
derers of their wives, mothers, and brothers. The
appeal of such persons to our hemanity he consi-
dered irresistible. Sir Samuel Itomilly concluded
by making his motion.
Lord CASTLE,RFACM tail, be bad beard with
pain the statement of the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman he could assure hint, 'however, that the
picture he had drawn was a mostexaggerated one,
and more likely to create sentiments of ho3tility
between the different religions of Europe than im-
part the balm of comfort to minds distorlied.—
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had placed hint
.in a painful situation : he had called on the Go-
vernment to answer and explain a case with as
much confidence as if he knew that Ministers had
the power of ascertaining all the truth belonging
to the disturbed affairs of another nation. He
begged to enter his protest ugainst the line of
,policy the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
had recommended. His Mrsjesty's Ministers could
not be the Ministers of Foreign States, and exe-
cute the duties which solely belong to those
States.. The Hon. ,Gentleman had congratulated
the Government on its benevolent intentions, some
time since, with a View to compose the minds of the
Protestants of France ; hitt it the lion. Gentlemau
thought his Majesty sGovernment had ever taken
up that question, he was in error. Government
had, on'the contrary, been impressed with a be-
lief that more isarMthan good had been done by
interference, and that those who endeavoured to
serve the Protestants of France had done them
injury. The'Noble Lord deprecated the policy of
interterence in the religious disputes of foreign
States. There was a time when it was the inte-
rest. Of States to mix policy and religion together,
but that time was guise ; the spirit of philosophy,
of tolerance, an Christianity, had rendered all in-
terference its religious matters. unnecessary. He
called to the recollection of the House the reli-
gious feuds which had occurred in this coit•ttry
andlreland, and chew a conclusion that the rsri-
fish Government. would not have permitted
any foreign power to interfere. The conduct
of the French Government had been improperly
described. France was only distorbed by local
feud, carried on by persons infitienceti by politics
and religion. The same feeling had Owl' to a great
extent in Ireland. In Arileigh the two accts had
levied war against each other for two years, anti
the aria of the law was not
,able.to reatraiu their
animosity.- The lion. Gentleman admitted that
no excesses had occurred since December in France,
yet he came to hat row up the feelings of the House
with tales of religious severity. He could not,
consisten with public duty, consent to give the
information required. Ile would not give it to
Parliament," because. he could net constitutionally
ask them to make use of it.--4 Hear, hear 1) There
had been no communication that did not satisfy
the Government that 'bis most Christian Majesty
was influenced by a sincere desire to prevent the
metannloily events which had disgraced pert ofhis
tiontinious. The Protestants 'Of It'rance, protect.
ed first by Louis XVI. and taken urebyßuonstearte,
had acquired power and interest previous to the
restoration of the House of Bourbon, which had
led to the animosity between both religions. He
• had on hesitation in saying, he bad acquired the
1 best informatiou On the cause and state of the
excesses in France. The_ Noble Lord then re-
(erred to a letter, received front en individual on
whom he could rely for impartiality. The pare-
_ graphs read by the Noble Lord were in substance
us follow Both parties (speaking of .Catho-,.
tics and Protestants) are changed since the,

au army in France ought rather tn prevent out in»
terference than to prompt it ; in delicacy to a tree
(;'overnment, we 'Shoot(' not ASStitte an authority
in their domestic policy becanse We have Lord
Wellington and his army there.
Mr. W. Sstrrit supported the Motion, and fe-
tnarked that the excesses had been proved and ad»
mit(9l On all hands' to have been conimitted by.
Cathoties, under a Catholic: GoVernment,
had not brought a single aggrlis4or -to punish
meat ; and this was ground ,sufficient for the in.
terterence.

.
superiority was found anumg the Protestants,wln
o
were superior io wenltleand power, To toy know-
decLe they were the strongeso party, -Hod they
succeeded infproctiring tor them P. ttrei a maim ity
of puldie oftices.- • These •they cootioned' to enjoy
under the tosterieg care of Hawn-Tarte. The sue--
eess of the flint hoot sepplanieh the Protestants,
and gave roont to the Cathidies to hook for situa-
tions, Which they conceived they had a right to
in consequence tit their fixed loyalty. On the-de-.
feat of Ileonapirte, great animosities ensued, ite;.
&owed, no doubt, by Priests, and increased by
the weakness Of Government. I could not learn
that between 1814 and 1815, any tactual hostility
took place between the parties of the Garde.-Be-
earal songs were sunt;, insulting to the Protes-
tants, by the lower classes, hut as the respectable
parties concealed their itnintosity, their resent.:
meta might ,have been smothered, if the re-;
„appearance of Buoneparte had not led them to ex-
press indignant -entiments. The Duke d'Aogott-
lame, then in the South, prepared to meet him;
and to save Lyons, but deserted by .his generals
and troops, be could do nothing. Two hundred
of his faithful followers fell victims to the Pro-
testants or Bonapartists, which are synonymous
terms. .(Ilear, hear !) The Protettants brought
troops- to the Usurper, and did much injury to
the Royal cause. The re-action then commenced,
and the Protestants of the higher order suffered.
Marn,: travelled through the department of
-the Garde, and remained auNismes, I can ven-
ture to say, the lives lost in the Gattleavere under
one thousand; those lost at Nisines were three
hundred. A considerable Monber• of houses were
plundered. Although there was a diSposition on
the part of theMagiserates to keep the peace, they
could not for want of military. Matters were In
this state, when the arrival of the Austrian corps
tinder Count Staremberg diqiersed the inhabi-
tants. The severity tell on the Protestants, who
were excluded front the national guard. A consi-
derable body of Protestant peasantry marching on
Nistnes were dispersed, after 'some resistance
by no Austrian corps.. These evils could not
have been remedied by any Means so well as by
the appointnient of General Le Garde, and in
that officer the Protestants lost a friend. It is sa-
tisfactory to state, that while the Protestants of
Nismcs were suffering, their brethren in the sur-
rounding departments have been tranquil. The
'troubles appear to have been Cie effect of a poli-
tical and religious feud. •In Moutoelier, where
the Protestants arc in great numbers, no interrop-
!ion has occurred ,between time two sects. At
,Lyons, where the Protestants arc GOOO in num-
ber, there has been no interriiption. One of the
Ministers of the Reim-died Religion is ninCh ad-
mired as a preacher. Many of the Roman Cutho-
lie persuasion attend hint, and his sermons are
more admired than those of the Catholics.''
The documents' then draw the conchision, that
'the disturbances were eoufiaed to the depart-
ment of Nismes and the Garde, anti ptaceeded
from political as well as religious 'party feel-
ings. ~
That this department is now in a state of
perfect tranquillity, and further there was no
probability of the disturbances. being renewed,
and the Protestants feel that the . Duke d'An-
goulemehdd been eminently useful in suppress-
'ing the evils which,hed afflicted them. A post-
script is added, in which the interference oldie
Protestants of this country is.condenmed, et cal-
culated to excite fresh mischief, amid bad -done a'.
great deal of harm to the persons whom it was
intended to serve Hod protect, Ile did not deny
that' much suffering had been endnied, but it teas
not the way to alleviate these suffering', to blow
up into a fiery religions ' controversy the disputes
of a single department of'France • and he would
protest against the right to interfere, with the in-
ternal concerns of that country, though we hail
found it necessary to place an army there, to pro-n
tect the peace of Europe against. the designs of
'the revolutionary factions which cycloid again in.
volve the world in blOod and warfare. .The ,Bri-
tish people should support the Government of
France, not. for its preservation there, but fur the
preservation of the peace, of the world..(HcAr,
hear 1),
'Mr. Beotionam begged most distinctly to dis-
claim, for himself and his friends, the smallest
intention of giving tiny sanction to those prin-
ciples w Web .the Noble Lord had in such 'a
lofty
tone been combating-. The whole of the state-
ments made by, his flon..Friend were inore,than
made Out by the official statements of the Noble
Lord. In the le ter which he had reed, and, the
candour of which he did not intend to impeach,
it appeared that atrocities of the blackest descripe.
tion .had taken place-1000 Protestants had been
murdered, and thousends persecuted nod iihpri-
boned, and this, too, in the short space of three
months. The ease thenarna clearly made out ;
end what was propOSed to be done ? why, to pur-
sue the settle course which this country hail al-
ways adopted in, cafes of a similar nature; not
et ante -to address:the-French Government, And
threitten theer.with the sword, as the "Aherne-
tive between.- an attention to omit. representa-
tions, and the disregard of them, but to ad-
, .
Yesterday the friends of Parliamentary 'Reform
dress our own Sovereign, requesting, that toe .
influence of the. Executive should he delicately J, tinted together at Freemasons' 'r avert), to cele-
and most 'respectfully exercised, in behalf of ' brata the purity of election : they, consisted of
about' 400. Among. the persons, present we no-
our tinfortonate fellow Protestents its another
country.' And then, too, there was a long tlisser aiced Sir .F. Burdett (chairman), Lord Cochrane,
Sir John Throckmorton, Mr. Curveen, M. P. etc.
tation elm the intetference,of the Protestant As-
sociatious in this country, who had been stimulut- Lard COCH-RAcoursea, in the course of the evening,
ed by the most honourtdde motives dlot..Call ac= entered into a refutation of the har late ce.es that
et
'taste the human breast ; these excellent men were had, beams brought against hint.
told, that they most not take any part in a tines- .- . Major CAItTWKWHT stated, that a Petition from
tion so powerfully appealing to their 3yrnpathies, Edinburgh in favour of, Parliamentary Reform,
because it wou4l only make the bigotted atroci- signed by 12,000 persons, was about to be pre.
Otis persecutors more ferions,- and would excite - seated to 'Parliament. Many more, lie stated,
them to inflict new miseries upon their defence- 'would have been presented, had not the Speeker
less lellow-countrymen.--What an argument was j 7refused:ttl receive them in a printed form._
this! It would at once condemn all the exertions. Some characteristic toasts were given) which
which this country had ever 1113tle in hehalinf : were followed by tones—meant, no doubt, to be
afflicted .huntanity.,.—Fle: was 'anxious that this ! .pecnliarly,appropriate. We give three of them as
question should be discussed to shew that the Par- specimeos, and leave out Reeders to decide is
liAtuent of this country still 'intim:tined a strong of the three is the most facetiotts :---- ,
feeling in the cause of PrOteStallisM, and of the ! " Ttio King ftndr(,!Dnsii,tition, and a speedy recovery et
rights of - religious liberty in every part of : both." Tette, " Itnte Britannia."
i " The Princvss Charlotte ; ,tail tufty her dorrieslkkappliwirs
Europe.
,
i lie as great as the litople's love ,vi ! th: isertaio, if site i,ets net Lord Btettetbo-contended that there was no ma-
tention on thethose. principiei her fatii4r professed." Tone, 4$ Rope, told
putt of his Noble Friend to int,» : a fbtter4; "I'4"
puce intwor..lty tnotives to- the Learned Gentleman" The only reowdv for our grio,.ances—a radical Reform in
who had introduced: till* Metion to the lintlae.,.. .' nettles oat.",
' the Commons notite et Partiauteet,"-,-Tenv, e. sick the

Sir S. RostiLLY, in reply, complained of the
injustice which' had been done him on this sub
jest by the Noble Lord. Nothing gas further
from hit views than the interference ascribed to.
him. All he wanted was' the papers explaining
the interference which had already taken place.--'-
The Noble Lord had characterised the. distur-
bances as the quarrels .of two parties, viz. Protes-
tants and Catholics. He denied that such was the
fact, there had not heeti a single Catholic put to
death as such, and it was clear front the statements
of the Noble Lord, that the instigators of the 'ig-
norant Catholic people were actuated by political.
animosities, -and the Protestants were made the
prey of these malignant passions compoutided with
the fanaticism of the workers of the ruischief.---,
lie was satisfied that much good would result„;
from the di9cussion of this day, as it would shew
that there was a Quarter of the globe in which
atrocities of this description would be stigma-
tised with all flit:indignation and abhorrence ‘vhicit
it merited. Ile would animadvert as freely upon
the proclamations of Louis XVI. as upon those
of our own Prince Regent, because both were
acted upon by their Ministers ; and he. was de-
cidedly of opinion, since he had heard the expla-
nation of that Noble Lord, that Lord Wellington
was not justified in the facts of that letter, in
which he took upon him Self to say, that religious
worship was restored.. tie had no intention of
pressing the motion to a division, being satisfied
that much good had been done by the discussion
itself, and he felt happy that the motion had been
brought forward.
Lord CASTLEREAGH. and Lord BINNING seve-
rally'explained.
The question was then put and the motion ne-
gatived.
Mr. BANKES moved, that the Report of the
Committee on the Elgin Marbles should he re-
ferred to a Committee of Supply. The motion
was agreed to. and it was agreed that it should
stand for an Order of the Day on Monday.
The adjourned debate ou the Alien Bill was
funher postponed till Monday.
The Report of the Soap Bill was brought up anti
rtgreed to, and the Bill ordered to be read a third
tune on Monday.
The other. Orders of the Day were disposed of,
and the House adjourned at One o'Clock. this
Morning.