The Sun.
London, England, 1816-05-16 00:00:00

110U$14, oF cOAIMONS.

reetttinned from our second resel
The Cttesiceeeott of the Excneauee. ;TOT-
,heeded, from the Hon. anti Learned Gentleman's'-
'aro adnaitsiou, that, in point of sttiet law, every
hing tvhich had been done on the part of the
e;town, with reference to the stilieet to which he
hail adverted, %vas justified. The Hon.and Leatn-
Id Gentleman, however, with a wietrto the plithsi.
hility of bis own arguments, had not sufficieutly
upon the distinction between tint etintribu-:
thins paid ley France previous to the signing of
the Treaty, and those which had been paid since.
The contributions before the rl'reitty of :Peace,
wine, iu !mint of feet, the hoetty,ot war, flee to
prowess.ot ti conquering larttry, awl- were Stat...
V!,l iu the Convention of Paris, Lobe in lien of
those contributions winch •the Allied Ai my, on
rail- r ing Paris, had a right to exact, by way of ran-
sow. These,he apprehended, upon the audio' ity
of all former precedents, jurre • Lehi, belonged to
the Sovereign, and were, legally speaking, at his
disposal—(llear, hear !) A small part of t his
som, however, he hail only appropriated _to
particular services—immely, to the removal of
J.lte .works of art belonging to the Pope to
Rome, and to the erection of tt monument
to; the
_lost surviving branch of the
_House of
Stuart. The remaieder was left in the military
chest of :tiieDuke of Wellington. With respect
to the second hart of the transaction—namely, the
.snms which aril-!, been received sinee_the signing
of the Treaty, ;turf which had been gratited by
Way of indemnity for the expenses which we hat 4
incurred during the war, this involved entirely a
new question, and he would be ready to admit the
justice of the Ilan. and Learned Gentleman's at-
,gtonetite, provided the Clown had talten ot
itelf\to appropriate these SUMS Ot111:11V1Se than for
.the purposes for w Welt they were received. He
begged leave to state, however, that the lion,. and
Learned Gt naeman had totally misrepresented'
Mite statement tvhich he made on this subject on a
,former night. The Hoe. and Learned, Gentleman
said, that he represented the whole of this Sum
,to be choirs of the Crown, and disposable hythe
Crowe at its pleasure. Ile would appeal to the
recollection, of the House, however, whether lie
had ever held.stieh.en argument or whether, on
the culinary, he hint not distinctly stated. in the
call;; part of the Session, that these sums had been
,recuivol, and we ere to lft applied solely and exclu-
sively to public service ?--(Hear, hear !)—The
Sovereign, as the trustee of the nation, was the
only persan by whom these stims.could he reeeiv-
cd, and, as became the duty of, such trustee, he
held them till the, manner-of their applicatiim to
'the public service was determirie'd upon. . Ile ue-
Yer dill contend that this money was applicable to
any other porpose ; but bud unequivocally an.
natinced the-intention of the Prince Repot, both
..with regard to the sums actually received under
the Treaty, and those yet to be received, to apply
them to the, payment of :he expenees of Ihe army.
on the coaptineet, With respect to the adequacy
or inatreqeacy of the sums to this purpose, that
was,a Waiter of 110 11111/011ance, alt tongh he was t
..;ei.eenaved to :contend that the emitribtonnis at the
cod
,Of the five years would exceedihoseexpeneec
It appeared from the ;Accounts on the table, Oita
the sum already received for 1815' was but
of livres., or 600,0001. sterling. This might
fall short of the expences to be defrayed this year.
~but in the next year, the payment woelttbd in, -
creased to forty millions of !ivies, and at the end
of the five years it was estimated that there would
•.be a surplus of 500,0001. Another proposition
-which the Iltin. and Learned Gentlemen had
submitted to the House, was, that the sum,
intended to be applied tre the army, being received
front a foreign Power, was to be viewed by the
House with just suspicion, end. reprehensiou. It
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would Mill- to
the Conventiou, however, he would find that it
would not admit of the interpretation which he
seemed to have put upon it, for he would perceive
that it stated that the sum of 25-millions of !ivies,
or one million sterling, was appropriated for the
txtraotdiharyServieet of the British andPlll3Sll4ll
et'itlies, to their respective Soverigns, and not to
the arrnies-tternselves. Whatever those armies re-;
eeivedtherefove %vas thehoutity of their Sovereigns,
and in no reepeet the gift Oa foreign PI) wer. (Hear!) • !
;',The I-lon.. 'and Learned Geotlerean then stated
that the conduct of the Crown, on the present
OCCISIOII, VCRs' 'telt:My different 'front the 'course
;adopted in former times ; and in illostration. of
his propOsition cited, first, the precedent of
Queen Anne, in the Asiiento Treaty (a circuit',
TOtaace, by, the bye, which in these days cotild
mot but be regarded with abhorrence), -where-
by she stipulated to receive one-fourth part of.
the:Slave Trade of the Spanish West Indies, for.
,the privileges %bid) she granted to the South Sea
Company, On this occasion the I-lon. and Learn-
'ed• Gentleman had stated,. that Parbiuncht had
sent tip air Address to her Majesty, praying that
'she would apply the produce resulting front this
`treaty to the Service. So far was this
frmit supporting the Hon; and ',learned Gentle,.
'xitatt's argnifient, however, that it` had.a contrary
effect. For in this instance it distinctly slimed,
that- Perliament recognised the right of the Crown
'Boon,
stuns lo tpiestion, and sought that as a
boon, to which.- the public were not constito,
sionally entitled. And the Queen's answer the}
strongly confirmed this feeling ; for. in
-speaking of some minor slime, she said. " she
-evf,itild' apply them as she thought best for her
service."---'lhe tither precedent quntcd by the
Mon, and Learned-Gentleman, embraced a trans-
`s-talon still less applicable: to-his argument. He
alluded to the Vatch 'Treaty of 1760, respect-
ing the expellees' of the support of prisoners
tsf war. This entirely arose out of a settle,

merit of account, oriiinating hi Parliamentary

grants,, with which the- Crown had nothing to
440, and. therefore nothing could bb More wise
than for tire-. Grown to leave it to the tionseof
Commons tti say, ithetlicr they were satisfied
with the proposal, of 'the French King or not—
Licari, hear !)----The third precedent mentioned by
*ate and. Learned Gentle:l)oh was as little

:applicable to ,the proposition Ile rutant 5-np- port
lib the two former.. He allufleti to the:contract tit tli
4". C9nYpaoy, for the renewal of their

Charter. The Sum paid for ilitt:tutTatttege tifai
Stipulated by ParliaMent, and was, consequently
placed under the controal of Parliament alone, in-
dependent of the Crown. The flonourable and
Learned Gentleman hadritegt Atfitifildverred
the danger wilier: might result front placing- at
the disposalasfthe Crown, dining., five ,yeat:s,
sum of five or six by rendering it
independent of Parliament.
,Ifc yislied to ask
the Honourable nod -.Learned Gen:leman whe.;.
titer any such danger was apprehended in
time tact yeae; when Parliament without hesita-
tion, had placed at the - dispos4 of the Crown
tia less a son) than six milliouo—(Hear, hear !)
,---Was there any fear theiri of the Crown becom-
jag independent of the'peoplei and, if nbt then,
upon what principle was snspiciott to be har-
boured Dow ?--(I lour, hear !)—The Honourable
end Leaf-lied Gentleman had hinted at the temp.-
whin to make bad treaties,_ and to sacrifice the
real interettts at the country, for the sake of
pecuniary 'reward. If Miniaters.could be so wick-
ed, appreh'entled the contrOul of Parliament
would at all times exl)ose, them. to punishment,
and would effectually elieeld.such to
the application of the- snins which hail beet) re-
ceived, 'this had already been lfetert;ined by Par-
liatinnt i.t the Supplits wi.i4:l) they had toted ;
fdr those sums, like the surplus of the vote's of,
the 111111N' year, Would .b.e. included in the Ways
and Means, and thereby prevent the recurrence
to ()diet' mode's of defraying the expencvs which
had been •sanctioned froon t
whole, as the Hon. and Learned -Gentleman did
not shew any misapplication at the money in
question, or improper conduct on the part of the
Crown, he should move the previous questiou—
(Loud cheers).
Mr. TIF.ItNEY observed, that the argarfientS- of •
his Honouraidt' and Learord Friend had the effect
of establishing all that. he wished---qitnely, the
5111145 received by way of indemnity Ivom France,
was received by the Grown, not for its separate
use, but for the use (if piddle. That was the ob-
ject of: his speech,' ettl.(l,it had been fully attained.
tVhatever might, have.. been the intention of the
Crown upon this ,subject; - he thought it ought to
have been made -known to Pnrliainent by a Mes-
sage. Such bad been the course adopted by
Pitt, with respect to the Dutch I)roits, He-
thought the more secure mode on this ocelSion
:would have been to have paid the money, into..
tlae Exchequer,. and to have, left it
„for
ment afterwards
.to .dispoSe of it as they might
think expedient, and not, as seemed' to be the
practice; to: spend it tirat, "sod account for the
pude of its expendit tire afterwards. The House
ought to' have some security that this Money would
be applied to the .public service. Time was suf.,
fiClein eiblise.to suspect that this would not be the
case, from tile sum expeoded its the erection of a
monument-to Cardinal de York;e. -trate proposi-
tion-for tire erection of this motounent had been
submitted to ihe House, he was sure this soli'
-alteady-idven Wonid not: have' beo. voted ; nor
did he. heli(live the Noble- Lord {Castlereagh)
would hare had the face Jo come down with
such a proposition. 'Tie 'history of the coun-
try contained the best ' monument to • •the
'House of Stuart, and afforded a lesson to'. all
Xiiies, that when they ,-aeteel ill, the people
would drive theuk Out of the coiintrV. Uc
agreed that those engaged in the battle or 'Water-
hull were entitled to -a reward_, bitt whether he
rmoil go to. the ex,:ent of a million wax another
qdiestion ; he not object *to swell a vote,
yet he could not diSgoiSe from himself that there
were many other soldiers, who were (leprivetlAsy
accident from being .present at that, battle, who '
were opcilly entitled to participate in that re-
ward. .;
Upon'the.whole, hr thou& Parliament
ought to act for itself, and that the money should
be lodged in the Lxchequer, pod left. for, theta to
dole it out as they might think proper.
Lord GOTLEIVEAGH thought it impossible that
to clearer and'More satisfactory explanation clinic!
have been produced than that given by his'Right
Hon: Frienil the. Chancellor of , the Exchequer to
the (Intim No greater tribute could he paid to
its merits than the attempt to answer it made by
•the Right lion. Gentlenian opposite, for he had
flown off 'entirely from the question. As to the
application of the inoney,:the subject ,had already.
been amply 'discussed whets the, treaties had been.
-laid before Parliament, and 'had received its up-
.probation. The Army Grants had: heen..afr,,ady
voted, and the amount of
.those sums would be
deducted from- the supplies to be produced for the
`service of the year.' They had not been'tletailed
in the Ways and Means,. because' they were: not,
.levied front the.people, but the vote of supplies
would be lessened in proportion to their amount,.
He repeatedhiS former statement respecting the rea-
sons which had imincedthe Prinee Regent to join
in the erection of it monument to.,CardivalYorke.
But the sum applied to that purpose had not been
taken out of the funds intended for the public set.--
vice, but out of those Which, remained distiuctly:
:nuclei. the power of the Crown. • As to' the're-
lioquishment by fluSsia and Austria of, their re!-
speetive shares, .it was in order that the arinies
who hail fought'the battles 6hould-be properly re-
munerated out of a regular cOntfibtition, instead
elf the irregular one imposed au rariS
Blticlicr at the arrival of the English and Prussian
armies at that capital... But the tro'opS Could out
reteive these sams before theyhadt come into the
hands 01 tile Crown ;, and:it, was well Understood
that they: could .only be applied to' the , public
)et-vice,

Mr. l'oNsoNtay complimented his Hononrahle
Friend 'on having': brought forward the present
-motion,' because- in the early part, of the Session
it had been. customary to represent the skims in
question as belonging to the Crown alone, This
was no (Unger maint;tined, aitti .1111jest1's
bistere had now adopted a more constitution.d
vievi of the qoestion. Ike retninded the, House?
that even before rite Revolution, under leS
11. in 1674 or 1676, they hail voted that they were
the only. body, who lvid the-right of granting, Hp-
plying, and appropriating the rinbiic nioney, anti
had refused to share that privilege with any.other
holly, It was that conviction, that Nan:oat:tit
Ayoub! not suffer themselves to be trampled dOwn
by the Crown itsclf, that formed one of the
strongest bulwarks Of our, libo-ties..

j Sir-JAI.ICS shiAtiy

The It. esolutions were then put and negatived
without n
Mr: WARD presented Accounts of the Contin-
gent Expences of the Ordnance for the lust ten
years.- °tiered to be kid on the table.
To a question- tram Mr. PO'NSONiiY when Lord
CASTI.V.JIRAG4 would tiring .on rite It ePor; thei
Alien Bill, hit
The House went into a Committee pro fart/tat
on the- Ci4il List Aet;,lmblin-the blanks were filled -
up, and the liepott ordered to be received next
Friday,
Mr. VESF,Y rITZGEII4O moved, that on Friday
next the lionseshonld.resolim itself into a Com-
mittee of the whole„lionse, to consider the Se-
venth Article of the Union:. Agreed to.