The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-24 00:00:00

THE S UN, LON DON,_ T URSDA MORNING, JULY 24, 1845.

LONDON AND CROYDON RAILWAY.

The London and Croydon Railway Enlargement Bill wa3
read a third time and passed.
MANCHESTER AND LEEDS RAILWAY, No. 2._

1 ters. The Honourable Gentleman then commented on
the conduct of the missionaries of New Zealand, and
said that he was bound to say that though many
of them were very exemplary characters, yet there were
some who looked too much to the gain of worldly treasures.
He would net mention the merits or demerits of the New
Zealand Company, but he would say, that the natives would
not pay two-pence an acre for land, and they would not pay
custom-house duties ; and if they sent out 10,000 men to the
colonies they could not enforce them to do so. If the matters
in New Zealand became worse, it would be necessary to keep
up a native army and a large navy in New Zealand. Jealousy
would thereby be created amongst the bat lyre', and the most evil
consequences would result. There were only two motives by
which to keep the natives in awe, and those were fear and re-
spect. There could not be a better man in the world than
the Bishop of New Zealand, but there was a set .of low-minded
men in New Zealand, who termed themselves missionaries,
and those men had done all they could to poison the minds of
the natives. They had, in the Mahore language, designated
the English settlers as devils. What he (Captain Rous) would
advise would be to send out a Brigadier-General with 1.000
men in two ships of war, and he would deprive the New Zea-
lard Company of their charter, but would give them a fair
remuneration for what they had done. He would guarantee
their land to the settlers, and give them remuneration for their
labour hitherto performed, and he would abolish the protectors
of the natives, and would appoint more protectors of Europeans.
Mr. WARD explained that the 40,0001. to which the Hon.
and Gallant Officer had alluded, had been divided into 1,600
shares, and the title deeds had been deposited in the
hands of the Honourable Member for Essex (Mr. H.
Palmer.) He would remind the Honourable Member
for Westminster, that when the New Zealand Company sold
their land to the settlers 15s. in the pound of the produce of
thedand was paid to furnish labour for the land so sold. He
was very much (reposed to agree with the Hon. and Gallant
Member that it was not necessary to have a representative
Government in New Zealand, and he was much pained to hear
his Hon. Friend the Member for I.iskeard dwell se much upon
that point. If he had had the conduct of this question in the
last debate upon it, he would not have divided the House upon
it. Fie would have rested upon the immense admission of the
two Right Honourable Baronets opposite. This was a national
question. Ten thousand men and women had left their
native country, and had given up the advantages of civilised
life, and it was painful to' see their prospects blighted by these
squabbles.—( Cheers from the Ministerial benches, followed by
counter-cheers from the Opposition.) He need not say that
he did not like that cheer. He could wish to see these squab-
bles at an end. The first duty of a Government, taking all
the circumstances into consideration, was to take steps to put
an end to the present evil system, and they could only do that
upon clear and definite principles. What hid been the
conduct of all the officials in New Zealand? Why
it had been •to treat all the settlers as enemies.
He thought it a most unfortunate circumstance that the Go-
vernment of this country should have been entrusted to such
hands as Captain Hobson and Captain Fitzroy, the former pa-
ralysed by disease, and the latter with a mind harassed, if not
deranged, by the circumstances which he could not controul.
He did not make any distinction between the two Governors;
one was nearly as bad, or at least as incompetent as the other.
It had been said that if the Northern Star steam packet had
not arrived with 220 soldiers the colony might have been lost,
and this was answered by quoting an opinion of the Noble Lord's
near him, the Member for the City of London, that one
hundred soldiers were sufficient to preserve the peace of
the island. —(Hear, hear.) That might at fret sight ap-
pear a very plausible argument, but the Noble Lord
assertion had been made in reference to a country not divided
with fearful virulence against itself, net when the people were
cutting each other's throats, not where native and colonist
were inspired with animosity and engaged in downright war-
fare, but of a country at peace both among themselves and
among the foreign settlers.—(Hear, hear.) But how had the
alarming state of the colony been treated by the Government ?
Why, all regard for the property of the natives had been for-
gotten : the disputes were alone between the Government and
the Company, disputes as disreputable to the one as the other.
The Government did not care for the practical matters of the
case involving the interests and safety of 10,000 English settlers,
and a vast amount of native population.—( Hear, hear.) This
pettifogging conduct was more especially unworthy of Lord
Stanley, and he was sorry to see the two Right Hon. Baronets
opposite adopting and defending that conduct. If allowed to
carry out their own liberal views, for he was willing to admit
the good and laudable intentions of the Right Hon. Gentleman
at the head of her Majesty's Government, and the Secretary of
the Home Department. But they were shackled by their
colleague the Secretary for the Colonies, who impeded their
measures and frustrated their best endeavours. Why did they
not manfully resist such baneful influence, and boldly carry out
their wishes.

reference at home they would be mistaken. While this in-
quiry was going on they would have fresh disturbances and
fresh outbreaks. They ought to have had a man of higher
rank, such as Lord Ashburton, commissioned to settle all these
disputes upon the spot. The expense would be as nothing in
his mind. He felt strongly on this point, but from what he
knew of Lord Stanley, he felt assured that this dispute would
be speedily at an end, and the same prosperity restored which
had fist marked the proceedings of this Company in its origin.
He thought that it was necessary, to bring this dispute to a
conclusion, that all the circumstances ought to be stated.
Sir R. PEEL said, that before entering on the main
question he wished to make one or two observations.
chief point was to disencumber the question of some of its
minor difficulties. In the first place, he would say
that Mr. Stephen was, in his conviction, an in-
dividual of the highest integrity. From family con-
nexion, from personal position, and from all those
things that distinguish the character of a man, there was every
reason to believe that no imputation whatever could be thrown
upon his character. Whatever might be the impression on the
public mind, though he had no connexion whatever with Mr.
Steieen, and did not even know him, yet this he would say,
that a man of finer ability, nobler integrity, or of more amiable
qualities, did not exist in the employment of Government. He
felt bound to bear this testimony to the character of Mr. Stephen.
He would now refer to another individual equally meritorious,
and for whom he entertained the very highest respect, an officer
whom the Gal'ant Commodore opposite had, in his opinion,
unjustly aspersed, lie meant Captain Robinson, and the manner
in which that individual had conducted his operations in New
Zealand, the efficient services he had rendered—services which,
though in themselves not peculiarly distinguished by the
amount of numbers engaged, were yet of more real importance
to the country than many not confined to the same narrow
limits, and he thought that the House would not wish to see ser-
vices so conducive to the public advantage, and merit and ability
spent in the service of the country go unrewarded. That
officer had latety set a gallant example to others engaged in the
service of her Majesty. He had been seriously wounded in a
successful effort to quell a disturbance in the colony ; and
here, on the floor of the House of Commons he (Sir R. Peel)
begged to say that that coedurt should not bass unnoticed.—
( Hear, hear.) He repeated that that Gallant_ Officer should
be rewarded, not merely because of the act of justice to him
but for the encouragement of others.—( Hear, hear). He
( Sir Robert Peel) felt it an act of duty to reward
such conduct at the very earliest opeortunity. ( Loud
cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Member who brought
forward this motion, said it was incumbent on the Govern-
ment to assign a reason for the course of policy they bad pursued
in New Zealand. After the recent discussion which had taken
place upon this very subject, he (Sir Robert Peel) thought
that some good and sufficient reason ought to have been shown
for calling the attention of the House again, at this period, to
the affairs of New Zealand. Certainly this mode of procedure
was not calculated to allay or to reconcile differences; it bad,
in his opinion, rather a tendency to widen the breaches which
unfortunately already existed between the two authorities
in this country in whom the management of the affairs of the
colony was confided. Such a reason was unquestionably re-
quired, for surd/ the Hon. and Learned Member should have
been the most anxious to forget past differences, and to
avoid—studiously avoid—useless discussion, and not to throw
difficulties in the way of a harmonious settlement of that colony.
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman admitted that he could not
himself assign any sufficient reason for this motion. He ad-
mitsed that the present state of New Zealand, and the unfor-
tunate conflict which had there lately occurred, did not justify
this motion. He (Sir R. Peel) thought that it ought rather
to have been discouraged. But the Hon. Gentleman said,
" Now I will assign the real reason for this motion." He could
tell the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that if it were not well
founded he was incurring a great responsibility.—( Hear, hear. )
He ( Sir R. Peel) did not deny the perfect right of the Hon.
and Learned Member, or of any other Hon. Member, to make
this motion in the House of Commons. He did not deny their
or his right to bring this motion forward in his or their places,
as a Member or Members of this House of Parliament ; but
he objected to this motion at this time, on the ground that the
welfare of New Zealand, and the interests of this country would
not be benefited by a discussion of the subject.—(Hear, hear.)
The only ground, then, that could be assigned for this motion,
was that language was held out by himself and his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Hope), in the course of last debate, which was at vari-
ance with the policy lately pursued towards the colony of New
Zealand. He (Sir R. Peel) was indeed acquitted of any in-
tention of gaining a majority, by holding out a delusive hope.
But, said the Hon. and Learned Member for Liskeard, that
language was calculated to have had bad effects, and Mem-
bers were induced to vote with Government, or at least
not to vote against them.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposi-
tion.) He said that the course of conduct subsequently
pursued by the Government was at variance with their pre-
vious language. Hewes about to examine that, but should not
relieve him from the necessity of dividing on the question.—
( Hear, hear.) He was about to defend himself and his Noble
Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies, but should con-
fine himself to this point. He should enter into no examina-
tion of past differences with the New Zealand Company. He
would remember that the New Zealand Company now existed,
and that it was desirable for the public interest that a co-
operation shculd exist between them and the Government
—( Hear, hear)—and he still retained the opinion he had
formerly expressed, although late circumstances had forced
him in some degree to alter his course of policy.—( Hear,
hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member fur Liskeard said
that he could not refer to any particular expression in his ( Sir
IL Peel's) speech, his remarks would apply to the general
tone. 'I hat speech he ( Sir R. Peel) freely admitted
might have been made in a conciliatory tone. It perhaps
avoided all reference to past disputes with the Colonial-office.
lie wished to look forward to peace; he had no desire to look
back upon differences and disagreements-4 Hear, hear)—and
he wished to promote an early and satisfactory arrangement of
those differences.—(Cheers.) But every word of that letter
which he wrote to the New Zealand Company—every letter
and every word in that letter—he was prepared to maintain.—
(Cheers.) If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman expected
some explanation on his part as to the topics in that
letter, such explanation he was not prepared to give. He
would not supersede his Noble Friend in the conduct
of the Colonial-office, for in his opinion he most cordially con-
curred.—( Hear, hear.) He believed his Noble Friend to be
influenced by a sincere desire to promote the welfare of the New
Zealand Company as far as he could consistently with his duty
to the Crown, and his faith to the country. The Honourable
and Learned Gentleman asked if he meant to imply approbation
of the whole of the past policy of the country as it respected
New Zealand? That was not the point. The real question
was, whether the correspondence which had taken place since
his speech was delivered was at variance with the sentiments
he had then expressed.—( Hear, hear.) He abstained from
noticing any other part of the subject. He would con-
tent himself with asking this one question, was any
part of this communication at variance with the
declaration he had made in that House? For his own part he
said no. Now with respect to the general spirit of that de-
claration be admitted that the general tone was conciliatory.
Had his Noble Friend acted otherwise ?—( Hear, hear.) Had
he shown any indisposition to receive the deputation from the
Company, even after the imputations which had been so
liberally delivered on his conduct ? He had not had an oppor-
tunity of reply, and yet he did not exhibit any other than a
desire for friendly communication with the chosen deputies
sent to confer with him ; and in order to prevent mistakes that
had occurred before, it was suggested that minutes of the con-
versation should be taken, and that they should be considered a
record of the interview. Now, as respected the general
character of his instructions, he would refer the House to the
dispatches sent to Captain Grey with respect to the New
Zealand Company. In these dispatches he spoke of the policy
of bringing the claims of the New Zealand Company to a fair and
amicable conclusion. What could a Minister say more ?
( Hear, hear.) That Gallant Officer's instructions were similar
to those given in a former instance to Captain Fitzroy—they
bound him to no particular rule, but left him general powers.
His Noble Friend bad acted with a desire to avoid all cause of
complaint in selecting Captain Grey. If they had selected
some individuals from that House, it might have been asserted
that they wished to build up family influence, by sending out a
person there, with a handsome salary, who knew nothing of the
country. But that could not be urged against the appoint-
ment of Captain Grey. If- they were wrong in this, they at
least acted from a sincere desire to settle the differences in New
Zealand. But how did his Noble Friend conclude his dispatch ?
He said that his general instructions to Captain Grey were—
to remove all obstacles to the prosperity of the colony,
and to bring so 'some conclusion, if possible, the discontent ex-
isting on the part of the New Zealand Company.
The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to say that he (Sir R.
Peel), speaking in the House of Commons, and exercising
his influence with the House of Commons, made a declaration
and gave the House an assurance which his Noble Friend the
Secretary for the Colonies afterwards failed substantially
to carry out. The Hon. Gentleman, in' fact, had told the
House that he (Sir R. Peel) had said that he thought that
with regard to these distant colonies, the system of representa-
tive Government was the best that could be applied to them,
for securing peace and tranquillity, but that he believed the best
mode to be adopted at. present for securing the contentment of
the inhabitants of New Zealand was to establish local Govern-
ments. Now, that was not what he did say, but the particular
declaration that he made was this—lle said it was quite clear,
seeing how the settlers were spread over the northern parts of
the island; that it would be ne easy matter to apply the priniple
of representative Government according to the rule
adopted in this country, and that he believed the
best plan for them to pursue, was to form
municipal bodies, giving them extensive powers of local taxa-
tion for local purposes ; and these municipal bodies might
afterwards form the germ of a future representative govern-
ment, It was impossible that these local bodies should have
supreme powers, because it would be inconvenient and create
confusion to have one law in existence in one part of the
colony and another in another part. He apprehended that the
constitution of the franchise, as respected these municipal bo-
dies, was exceedingly fair and liberal, for every male above
the age of twenty-one was entitled to a vote for a muni-
cipal representative. That it might hereafter be found
necessary to extend the system of representative Govern-
ment he was Certainly not prepared to deny, but this he would
say, that the time had not yet arrived for the House to take
that question into its serious consideration. He hoped he had
now given a satisfactory answer with respect to the
declaration which the Honourable Member said he
had made on a former occasion.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.")
With respect to Auckland, he hoped that he had proved to the
House that he had said nothing which had not been fully borne
out by the instructions of his Noble Friend. With respect to
the treaties, he had said that nothing could be more unjust than
to depart from those treaties. He believed that the whole ques-
tion before the House resolved itself into this—Was the Go-
vernment prepared to take possession of the land, or to secure
to the New Zealand Company the property of the land which
they had purchased? ( Much cheering.) He admitted
that the New Zealand Company had a right to be
put in possession of their lands, provided that was
not done to the damage of the rights of the natives.—
(Cheers.) He wished to show the House that it would be un-
just to his Noble Friend the Secretary of the Colonial depart-
ment, if they condemned his policy in a matter which involved
the question, whether the Crown had or had not a title to the
lands upon the right of discovery. When motions adverse to
his Noble Friend were made, he was entitled to ask upon what
grounds they were made? The Right Hon. Gentleman then
read extracts from the reports of the Committees of the House,
respecting the right of the British Crown to the sovereignty of
New Zealand. What construction was to be put upon those
statements ? Did they not place the Government of this coun-
try in a position which rendered it necessary to interpose ?
They had stipulated on the part of the Crown that, as the price
and condition of their sovereignty, the natives should not be
called upon to relinquish their land,excepting upon fair cession.
His Noble Friend did not contend that there necessarily was,
on the part of the native chiefs and tribes, a claim to all the
waste lands, but his Noble Friend thought, after the engage-
ments which had been made, that the rights of the natives
ought to be ascertained before they determined what lands the
Crown should lay claim to. If the native tribes could establish
any claim, it would he to the interest of the colony that that
claim should be allowed. That was the spirit in
which he had spoken on a former night, and that was the spirit
in which he spoke now—a spirit not in hostility to the New
Zealand Company, but a spirit consistent with a sincere desire
to see that , Company restored to prosperity. A pledge had
been given to the natives of New Zealand, and that pledge,
however unwisely given—and he admitted that it had been un-
wisely given—that pledge ought to be maintained. Conside-
rations of policy should induce them to adhere to that pledge.
,They might depend upon it that the seeds of future
government in New Zealand would be very imper-
fectly sown if they did not do so. Let them beware of i
taking the same course as France had done with respect to

- The Manchester and Leeds Railway Bill was read a third
time and passed.
WEST LONDON RAILWAY EXTENSION.

The Lords' amendments to this 13111 were taken into con
s.ideration and agreed to.
ACADEMICAL EDUCATION.

The O'CON6II DON presented a petition in favour of a
general system of academical education for Ireland, from a
county in Ireland.
111 r. ESCOTT presented a petition from a private soldier,
named William Follet, complaining that he had been illegally
dismissed the service, and praying for inquiry. The Hon.
Member gave notice that, to-morrow night, he should move
that the petition be printed with the votes.
Mr. SCOTT presented several petitions from turnpike
trusts in Scotland against the Bill for abolishing spirit licences
to toll-bars in that country.
COUNTY RATES BILL.—PRIVILEGE.

Uponthenio!i;n that the House go into Committee nn the
Conn.}, Rates Bill,
Mr. F. FRENCH rose and said, I see, Sir, in the public
papers a report that a breach of the privileges of this
House has been -committed, in regard to a speech being
published in the Times newspaper of yesterday morn-
ing, which is attributed to me, and declared to be in-
correctly attributed—in fact, that I never made such a
speech. Now I dare say that there are many Ho-
nourable Members in the House at the present moment
who can bear me out in 'stating that every single word
reported in that speech was spoken by me in this House. I
sat by the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London,
and on the Ministerial Benches sat the Prime Minister, the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Depart-
ment, and many other persons, and every one of them will vouch
that the report in the Times is literally and wholly
correct.—(Hear, hear.) I came into the House without any
idea of speaking on the subject, but an opportunity appeared
to me to offer itself,- and I made some notes while
in the House. I happen to have those notes still
in my possession, and I have compared them
with the speech, as reported, and ,they bear out literally the
accuracy of everything in the speech. Now a reply to that
speech has come from another quarter—a very powerful quar-
ter. It is perfectly true that from long practice the individual
me), wield his weapons with greater dexterity than I can, but
I have yet to learn that, when occasion may require it, I can-
not strike as hard a blow as he can. I neither court nor far
him, but it is not my intention to carry on a war of abuse,
which would neither accord with my own feelings, or be con-
sistent with my position as a-Member of this House. I think
I may trespass on the House for a ft w minutes, while. I state
toy position with respect to this matter. The House is aware
that for many years I have taken a good deal of interest in the
subject of railways for Ireland. Some }ears ago, when a pro-
position was made for constructing railways in the south of
Ireland out of the public funds, I opposed it, believing that
a line to the west would be more conducive to the interests of
the United Kingdom, and tend more to develop the resources
of Ireland. In the year 1841, shortly after the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman at the head et the Government came into power, 1 brought
the subject at considerable length under the notice of the House.
The railway—the Irish Great Western--ehich gave rise to
the present question, was not got up by solicitors or engineers,
as these things usually are—it was a Noble Friend of mine
and myself who were the promoters of the line. We expe-
rienced the greatest hostility as well from a rival company as
from all the stock-jobbers in the kingdom. Every possible ex-
pedient was resorted to, to throw obstacles in the way. Not-
withstanding all this, shares to the amount of from two to three
millions of money were applied for. I will now state shortly the
circum-tances connected with the allotment of these shares.
All applications were placed in a committee of directors. It
had been stated, however, that considerable negligence had
been shown with regard to these applications. I can say, how-
ever, in-reference to this point, that a respectable company in
Edinburgh, Messrs. Miller and Hope, stockbrokers, had the
selection of the applicants in that part of the country, and I am
quite sure that they would allow no individuals on the subscrip-
tion list unless such as were respectable. In London the lists
were deposited with Mr. Hazeltine, and severed persons, including
the solicitor for the Bill; and Mr. Harris, another solicitor,
went round and inquired into the respectability of the parties.
A provisional Committee was also appointed to inquire into the
application, and to make the allotments. Shares to the amount
of two millions were thus allotted. Notice was subsequently
given, that unless the subscribers paid up the calls, the depo it
on the shares would be forfeited. In consequence of the deci-
sion respecting the standing orders, the money was not to be
had. General Caulfield and others then came forward and
said that they would pay up the money and take there shares.
It was a mis-statement, however, to say that the direc-
tors had held any shares in the company for the pur-
pose of trading in them with a view to profit.
I never in my life held above forty shares in this or any other
railway. 1 hold these at this moment. I have never parted
with one of them ; and. under these circumstances, I think it
very hard that it should be imputed to me that my exertions in
behalf of this line had been influenced by any pecuniary or
sordid motive. I assure the House that to the extent of
forty shares I am interested, and no further, and my loss could
not, in any case, exceed 30/. There are a number of other
things connected with this matter, which I do not think it
necessary to introduce before the House. I admit
they occur in the speech I made ; but I must
advert to one statement which represents me as
canvassing for the support of a powerful individual in
another place. That is perfectly true.—( Hear.) I did see
that gentleman for about two minutes, and that was all ; and I
asked him to withhold his opposition until my Noble Friend
should be in his !dace to answer the allegations. I was not be-
fore aware, that my powers of reasoning were so great, that in
an interview of two minutes I could convince this gentleman.
It has been asserted, also, that the statement I made with
respect to the agents were untrue. The statement which I
did make before was, that there were interviews with the
agent, and that five letters were written—and that, I repeat, is
true. So far, I was correct. It was said that the
agent was not permitted to open the subject.
As to browbeating the witnesses, I had not done so. I received
the evidence from themselves; and with reference to Mr.
Parkes, whose name was mentioned, he merely proved that in
farty railway schemes the system was the very same PS in this one.
There is another circumstance to which I wish particularly to
refer ; I allude to some words which I spoke under great ex-
citement. lam anxious that that imputation should not re-
main, and I am prepared to state that the strong personal ex-
pressions which I made use of towards that individual was
under a mistaken feeling, as I have since found that he did not
make use of the expressions which I did ; but althoueh he made
use of words to the same effect, I have no hesitation in with-
drawing all the personal expressions which I made use of to-
wards that individual : and further I will state, as every man
should do, who has made a mistake as I did, my regret that I
used any expressions, offensive either to that individual or to
any other person:
Mr. CLIVE said, as Chairman of the Committee
to which the House had referred the Bill, he might
be permitted to say a few words with respect to the
share list. The Committee did not permit an examination of
the share list, because the parties did not call upon them to do
so. He thought it right to state this, as it might be inferred,
from what had subsequently taken place, that the Committee
bad not paid that attention to their duties which they ought to
have done.

Lord J. RUSSELL—" Nec sine te possum, nec eheu vivere
tecum !"—( Loud laughter. )
Mr. WARD—The Noble Lord near him hail suggested a
very apposite quotation, " Nee sine te possum, nec eheu vivere
tecusn." That was indeed too true, but he conjured the Right
Hon. Baronets to protest against and repudiate the conduct of
their colleagues, to deal promptly with the danger now in-
creasing rapidly in the colony, and, by an act of worthy
liberality, protect alike the settler and the native. _ _

,
Mr. G. PALMER hoped, considering the situation of four-
teen thousand British subjects, that sufficient protection would
he afforded. They had not even been allowed to protect them-
selves ; and from necessity they had formed themselves into
militia bodies, to resist the aggressions of the natives. He was
quite certain that neither Lord Stanley nor the New Zealand
Company would wish to promote any difficulty or disagree-
dainhtes twoaabegmeiLadeeleerttathinemthbeye
referred
o tlnefutthi i
ineer
tehGweei were reper
onawmn
eyernct
stoo,ma
complaints
the colony. promote the proper interests of
Sir C. NAPIER observed that the island of New Zealand
was a most fertile spot, and susceptible of the highest improve-
ment, and he thought that the Government had not extended
sufficient protection to its colonists. Several murders
had been committed in the vicinity of the Bay of
Islands, and the murderers, with one exception, had
escaped unpunished. The only protection that was afforded
was derived from a French frigate which happened to be in the
bay at the time. Independent of those murders, several out•
rages bad taken place at Falkland, which also went unpunished.
It did appear to him that the colonists, seeing the Government
so supine in assisting them, had considered that they were left
to defend themselves froin the aggressions of the natives in the
best manner they could. He had no doubt that the disastrous
ai te s
t%iVgaaitriaeun,
at o whichfur
further
rt e unpunished.xeesses.
Having
a constitutedving
stated
the
proceedingsprimary
opinionu t
the
great neslect of the Colonial Department in
preventing the massacre at Wairau, he would allude to the last
catastrophe that had taken place. The first dispatch of
Governor Fitzroy stated that the natives seemed to
entertain a general dislike to the British Government.
The natives cut down the flag-staff at Auckland
four times, nor was it to be wondered at, when a
half-civilized people saw that they could cut down a flag-
staff with impunity, they would cut it down a second, a third,
and a fourth time. He would allude now to the Gallant Go-
vernor's dispatch, which was a most extraordinary document.
Although he had said Auckland was in danger, nothing for its
defence had been done. A letter had been written from a ma-
gistrate in the Bay of Islands which required the presence of
the Governor there, but he refused, on the ground that he
could not leave the seat of Government. Such conduct was not
in any way defensible. He was persuaded that if the Governor
or any officer of experience had been there, the colony would
have been saved from the disastrous fate which it eventually
suffered. He would ask what would have been tPe fate of the
125 British subjects in the Bay of Islands, if an American frigate
had not been there to succour them ? Did not this fact furnish
a disgraceful reflection on the English Government? His Gal-
lant Friend opposite had said he thought that the Governor
acted perfectly right in remaining at the seat of government,
but would it not have been better to have sent hack the North
Star to have armed all the colonists, to have imported more
troops, and have attacked at once John Heki, and
prevented him from taking possession of Auckland. He
thought it his duty, as aßritish officer, to state these
facts ; the only manner in which he could account for the con-
duct of some of the officers at New Zealand, was, that there
must be something in the climate which infected their minds.
Too much praise could not, however, be given to Captain
Robinson for his gallant and intrepid conduct.—(Hear, hear.)
eo
Everybody in the Bay of Islands must feel indebted to that
brave officer, and he hoped that the Admiralty would feel it to
be their duty to promote and reward him for his brave con-
duct.—(Hear.) He regretted being obliged to comment on
the conduct of any officers in the service, but he felt it to be
his bounden duty, as a Member of Parliament, to do so. He
would not trouble the house with further observations.
Lord INGESTRE said he was anxious to bury in oblivion
every topic which could lead to irritation that had been men-
tioned in former debates. Ile felt bound to state that when the
deputations waited on Sir Robert Peel, they were treated with
the greatest courtesy and consideration. The Right Hon.
Baronet referred them to Lord Stanley, and that Noble Lord
evinced the utmost desire to promote the objects which the de-
putation had in view. Much had been said about a loan, but
he was not ashamed to say that the New Zealand iompany
would, had the title to their lands been guaranteed by the
Government, been anxious to obtain a loan, so that they might
more readily effect their purpose, and promote the welfare of
the colony. It would have been most desirable to have re-
moved the capital from Auckland to Port Nicholson, for the
ineonvenience was very great, but Lord Manley was averse to
it. He would apologise to the Right Hon. Gentleman the
Secretary of State for the Home Department, and the Under-
Secretary for the COlonies, for any harsh expre.sions which
he might have used towards them. He must say,
that notwithstanding all the obloquy that had been
cast upon the New Zealand Company, that he
had never seen a body
disin-
terested motives to promote great national objects. He would
in justice to Captain Fitzroy say, that lie believed his disposi-
tion was to du the best, though he thought the Ens of policy
pursued by him had been irjudiclous. Regarding the recent
lamentable events which had taken place in New Zealand, he
must say' that
to he
i theht thought
ylwaoi
tual
belongednd haveatoi
theb thoughne eant i avertedvwe si,i l
ion rg
was
os
1 a proper and decided line of conduct towards the natives.—
(Hear.) As men
treatyhn
landetoef act
vfrom parer or more
admit to the fullest extent the rights of the natives—he
would not admit the construction put upon that treaty by the
Government. E
under the control of the Crown. In either case the inter-
pretation put upon the treaty by the Government could not
t
u the g of
be sustained. He did hope that, in spite of all the angry feel-
ing which had been engendered by this discussion, all party
feeling would be allowed to subside, and that course be mutually
agreed upon, which would
the colony,
secure the interests of the em-
pire, and the welfare of colony,
- Mr. HAVES said he was most anxious that all party feel-
ing should be laid aside in this debate, and that the question
should be entirely considered on its merits. He believed the
Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Goverment was anxious
•
to do what was right , . and he hoped the debate would not be
brought to a close without an expression of opinion, on the
part of the Right Hon. Baronet, which would be satisfactory to
both sides of the House. He had al ways thought that the waste
lands of New Zealand should be in the hands of the Crown.
Because this had not been the case, New Zealand, in-
stead of being a flourishing colony, was in a de-
plorable state. He agreed with the Honourable Member
for Liskeard (Mr. C. Buller) that local municipal institutions
should be formed in the colony, from which Members of the
Legislative Assembly should be selected, and who, as a matter
would bring much local knowl I to bear
et ge on the
of course,
interests of the country. The policy which had been pursued
towards New Zealand had led to occurrences of a disastrous
nature ; and it was now time that another and a better course
should be adopted. The Colonial-offiee, for instance, had
pursued a line of conduct which plainly evinced that
Government was •
the policy of the to destroy the utility
of the New Zealand colony.—(Hear, hear.) This he
could prove by a reference to various documents, if it were ne-
cessary to do sae Nothing could be more mischievous than
the obstructions which were thrown in the way of this com-
pany.
Great companies, like the New Zealand Company, ef-
fected
and brought about fected great good, results which the Go-
vernment could not achieve. He wished to speak with respect
of the Colonial-offlee, but he could not divest himself of the
belief that that department of the Government had been mi--
led by information supplied to it, and had consequently adopted
a mode of policy towards that colony which could not be
easily justified. They would now have to held possession of
that colony by force of arms, instead of measures having in
view the conciliation and the peaceful government of that
colony. They would not effect any great good until the Go-
vernment asserted their right to the waste lands of the colony.
And what was the opinion of the Committees of that House ?
Just this—that unless the Government. took the whole soil of
New Zealand under their control, confusion and strife would
be the consequence. If they thought they could settle it by a

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
what had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman opposite will, I
trust, have the effect'of allaying that feeling of irritation which
the expressions he made use of on a former evening appears
to have occasioned. lam sure lam the last person in the
world who would wish to pursue this subject, as such a course
cannot fail to be painful to all parties. Perhaps the
Honourable Gentleman will allow me to avail my-
self of the opportunity now afforded of suggesting
to Hon. Members who sometimes violate what are the fixed
rules of this House, which we are bound to obey, not to call
into question the acts and conduct of Members of the other
House of Parliament, who may have acted in their legislative
capacity. lam sure the only mode of securing a proper feel-
ing of respect, and a proper observance of our own feelings, is
to show that we are not desirous of violating them. I think
we may do this, by abstaining from alluding to statements
which have been uttered in another place. I have thought it
my duty to avail myself of this opportunity of making these
observations to the House.
Mr. ESCOTT said he had been in the House the whole of
the time the Hon. Member (Mr. F. French) was speaking,
and never heard one single ssntence of the speech.—( A laugh,
and cries of " Hear, hear.")
Mr. DARBY said a few words, but not with reference to
the speech referred to.
Sir J. Y. BULLER said that he objected to the expenses
of this Bill being put on the County Rates Bill.
Mr. M. GIBSON also objected that the clause was unne-
cessa,y to carry out the provisions of the Bill.
After a few words from Mr. DARBY and Sir J. Y. But.t.rn,
The House divided, when there appeared, on the division
for the 11th clause, that for the addition of the terms instead
of the full and fair value of the property, the words " at the
rate at which the property was valued to the poor,"
For the addition ... ... 43
Against it
Majority for the addition —32
The other clauses, up to clause 31, were then agreed to.
Mr. M. GIBSON thought this was the proper time for
moving the amendment of which he had given notice, and he
should therefore move the following clause :—And whereas by
an Act passed in the session of Parliament holden in the fifth
said sixth years of the reign of his late Majesty, intituled, " An
Act to provide for the regulation of Municipal Corporations in
England and Wales," it is enacted, that after the grant of a
separate Court of Quarter Sessions of the Peace to any borough,
it shall not be lawful to assess any messuages, lands, tene-
ments, or hereditaments, within such borough, to any county
rate thereafter to be made, but every part of such borough
shall thenceforward be wholly free and discharged from con-
tributing otherwise than as thereinafter provided, to any rate
or assessment of any kind, of and for the county in which any
part of such borough is situated ' • be it therefore enacted,
that nothing in this Act contained shall extend to render any
such borough, or any property situated therein, liable to be
assessed, or to contribute to county rate, save as in the said
recited Act is mentioned and contained.

The amendment was agreed to.
The other clauses were then gone through, and on the
preamble being submitted,
Mr. HAWES wished to'know if the evidence had justified
the cone%ision at which they had arrived.
Mr. E. DENISON said that it was certainly very desirable
to know whether the lands appropriated to public bodies was
to be considered as amenable to this Bill.
Lord G. SOMERSET said that he could not be answer-
able for the Government, but so far as his conceptions went,
those lands which were not subject to the property-tax would
not be subject to the provisions of this Bill.
Mr. DARBY said, that the investigation ought to be made
by those who had to ascertain the rack-rent, and not according
to their figures, but according to the real value of the land.
Mr. G. PALMER thought that the country ought to be
altogether re-valued. The difference of value had led to
such serious differences in the country that he thought for the
sake of justice the country ought to be re-valued.
Sir J. Y. BULLER said that the machinery of the Bill
was perfectly easy.
The Bill then passed through Committee, and the report was
ordered to be received to-morrow.

The House having resumed, went into Committee on the
Death by Accident Compensation BM.
After a few verbal amendments,

Clause I was agreed to, as were also clauses 2,3, 4, and 5.
Some amendments to some of the clauses being withdrawn,
the Bill pa.sed through Committee, and the report was ordered
to be received on Friday.

The Deodands Abolition Bill then passed through Com
mittee, and the report was ordered to be received on Friday.

SLAVE TRADE.

Sir R. PEEL took the opportunity to present some corre-
spondence with respect to the slave trade which, on a former
occasion, he did not think it his duty to produce.
NEW ZEALAND-2-ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Capt. RODS resumed the debate. lie said that he wished
to know in what capacity the New Zealand Company came
before the House? He wished to know whether they came there
as supplicants, or as patriots demanding redress, or whether
they wanted a loan of a sum of money ? The answer that he
received from the Member for Cockermouth the other night
was, that if became to the New Zealand house he would show
him the accounts. He did not think that it was a proper busi-
ncss for them to borrow money from the country when their
capital was said to be 300,0001., and they had not paid up
100,0001. He thought that they had forfeited all their char-