The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-22 00:00:00

railroad in England the company's agents had the
power of determining when it should be, and that
would render it valueless to the private speculator.
On the large lines indeed they could hardly find an
interval for what would be called " the indepen-
dent train"—(A laugh)—the time was filled up—
there was not an hour to spare---and, of course, to
passengers it would be useless for the company to
give leave to run a train in the middle of the night.
Besides, the company would not allow the use of
their punps and their stations and other necessary
things. Yet some Hon. Gentleman some three or
four years ago moved that the companies be compelled
to place against the stations along their lines a board
setting out what their charges were under the Act,
and this was done. 'The absurdity of it was evident,
because these were not like turnpike-gates, where the
charge to be made was truly stated ; but this was a
charge which never was, and never could be, brought
into practice ; and yet the people looked at the boards
as if Parliament had been doing something for their
protection.—(A laugh.) He hoped that, at all events,
this would be done away with.—(Hear.) Ile believed
that the late President of the Board of Trade had
gone into the Committee of last year in the hope of
making some material alteration, but he soon found
that the old companies were too strong for him.
Still he (Mr. Morison) was in hopes that some altera-
tions would shortly be made; but he must say that
the additional accommodation which had been given
to third-class passengers in consequence of the re-
commendations of that Committee were most praise-
worthy, and he was glad that the result showed, not
only that the operation of the cheap fares was to in-
crease the numbers who travelled by the line,
and so benefit the Company, but that with di-
minished fares an increase of income was realized.
He had been informed that on the Grand Junction
line there had been an increase in the third-class pas-
sengers of 308 per cent. while the revenue from third-
class passengers had increased only 70 per cent. There
had also been an increase in the second. class passengers,
so that the increase in the third class seemed to have
been at the expense of the first class. The attention
of Parliament should be directed to this subject. It
would be manifestly cheaper for the companies to
attach third-class carriages to the fast trains, as they
would thereby carry third-class passengers without
any additional power. They should certainly give
the lower classes the full benefit of the penny a mile
system. It was a great hardship upon them to be
kept 19 hours upon the road when they could be con-
veyed in less time. It certainly seemed singular
that the companies should choose to put
themselves to additional expense, by put-
ting on slow trains, solely for the purpose of
inconveniencing their passengers. The Government
ought to be permitted to give notice of revision or
purchase before the lapse of twenty-one years.
There was no knowing what might occur in that
period. It was holding out a vast temptation to job-
bery.—(Loud cheers.) In fact, the present sys-
tem held out a premium to bad manage-
ment, instead of an encouragement to good.
He then came to the question of amalgamation. It
was quite evident that they could not prevent amal-
gamation. He did not know that they ought to pre-
vent it ; but this was an additional reason why they
should be careful in their legislation on this subject.
At present, he believed that railway companies could
not be amalgamated without coming to Parliament ;
but he observed, that a power to lease and hire had
been granted in many railway Acts of late, and he
thought that Parliament ought to be very cautious
how they allowed that power. If the public were to
derive any benefit from the practice of amalgamation,
it must be by Parliament taking care that it should
not take place without a proper security that the in-
terests of the public should be consulted ; but he
thought that each company ought to have the power
to hire or lease, without coming to Parliament. Amal-
gamation, therefore, was an additional reason why
the House ought to be more careful in legislating on
this subject than they had been. Great improvements
had of late taken place in the construction of railroads,
but nothing seemed to be done to give the public the
benefit of any improvement, or any guard against the
impositions that might be practised by the companies.
He believed that they could not guard against amalgama-
tion, but when rail ways were completed in great districts
of England and Wales combination would undoubtedly
follow. Now, with reference to this point, it must be con-
sidered that the railway companies, would shortly, in
all probability have ramifications to every town in
England; they would command the services of the
most active persons in life—as for instance the law-
yers; they would always exercise a powerful influence
on the House of Commons ; and if the proper mode of
dealing with them were neglected they might become
too formidable in the House—aye, too formidable
even for the Right Hon. Baronet, with his large ma-
jority, to contend with. He (Mr. Morison) had
said last year that the railway companies should not
be allowed to add repairs to the amount of their
capital. It had been said last year that all reforms
were too late—that all the great lines were finished,
that all the trunk lines were finished, and that it was
past the time for doing anything with advantage; and
that as to the new lines, the small traffic on them did
not allow of small fares; and that if these conditions
were imposed on them they could not answer. Now, he
did not exactly know what was meant by trunk lines.
He denied that the trunk lines were sufficiently
extensive—in fact there were no trunk lines. They
had no trunk lines to the Eastern Counties,
nor any to Dover. There was no trunk line to
Exeter. The Great Western was a trunk line,
to Bristol, but it could not be considered as a trunk
line to Exeter. They had no trunk line to Man-
chester, or, in fact, to any place that
might be called a great market. Whether
they got threepence, twopence, or a penny,
he thought that the remuneration might well be
ascertained by the Committee who sat to investigate
the claims of any particular company, and might be
introduced into the special Act. The chances
were, that one-half of the present prices would
be a sufficient remuneration. An impression had
gone abroad, because 10 per cent. was generally
realised on the most prosperous railways, that that
per centage ought to be obtained from investments in
railway schemes. Where the prospects of returns
was uncertain, perhaps 10 per cent. was not an
unreasonable amount of profit to anticipate.
But it should be recollected that railways in England
were not now an experiment. They had become a
system. He thought that 7 per cent. was a reason-
able return, and indeed from the continental
railways 6 per cent. was considered a suf-
ficient remuneration. A great deal of Eng-
lish capital had gone to France for the for-
mation of railways, and it was evident, from
this outlay of capital abroad, that the anticipation of
something like ten per cent. from English railways
was almost universal. Now he thought that six per
cent. from the old lines was quite up to the
mark for profit. On a new line it might not be
sufficient, but the old lines offered a security almost
equal to that of Government investments. By his
plan he would secure to the public the benefit
of all future improvements. At present it did not
matter whether the line cost 10,0001, or 20,0001., or
50,0001. per mile, the company always began charg-
ing the same fares,' whereas the remunerating
price depended on the cost. In every
other instance where improvements took place—
in iron-works, or in cotton-mills—the public always
got the benefit. Why should not the same take place
with regard to railroads. If railroad companies
knew their own true interests they would perceive
that the only way of securing a monopoly to them-
selves would be to reduce the fares as low as possible;
thus making it not worth the while for others to com-
pete with them. That was the true commercial prin-
ciple, and lie was sure they might reduce the cost,
and yet get ten per cent. With regard to the Board
of Trade and their proceedings, that was a subject
which would be fully considered on a future occasion ;
but he might observe, in passing, that they seemed to
have an especial fear of insolvency, and they instanced
the case of the Eastern Counties and the Kent lines.
But why should they carry on lines which they had
reason to believe would not be profitable? They seemed
to think that new lines offered less security to the pub-
lic than old lines; but he would observe that there
might be insolvency also in the case of the old lines.
If there was any fear of.that kind, let them increase the
guarantee, and that would be sufficient. In such a
case, he (Mr. Morison) should think it better to have
recourse to new capital to form a new line; but the
Board of Trade always seemed to think that the old
line would be able to transfer its shares, but that a
new line would be less deserving of public confidence.
The House had the power to take guarantees so as
to give security to the public in this
respect. Then
there appeared to be a disposition in the Board
to take lines which were not direct lines. Now,
he thought, as the railway system made pro-
gress, there would be a demand for direct lines.
His constituents complained that in going. to In-
verness they were compelled to go fifty mites
out of their way. 'Why should that be ? The
House would in no long time be called upon for direct
lines, and he thought parties, on bringing a project
for a railway before the House, ought to look, not
at the minor object of beating an opponent, but at
what would be permanently beneficial. He believed
he had said enough to illustrate the effects of the pre-
sent system and its evils, but he felt that they were
creating in the railway department of the Board
of Trade an enormous power, without the control
which ought to be kept over it. He believed
that, as the railway system progressed, there would
be a demand for direct traffic.—(Hear, hear.) He did
not know why persons should be bound to go fifty
miles out of their way, as they were under the pre-
sent system. If he were a director or an influential
person connected with railways, le should advise the
company not to look to their immediate profit so
much as to their permanent interest, and by that
means to endeavour to secure their interests. He
thought he had said enough in illustration of the

present s 3 stem. He called upon Hon. Members to '
bear in mind that the railroad system had superseded
nearly all other means of conveyance ; whilst upon
that system itself they had placed scarcely any control.
Some Hon. Members had entered into compacts
against certain monopolies, without at the same time
perceiving that they were creating new ones, in sanc-
tioning the present system of railway legislation.
There could be no doubt that by and by the railway
companies of the kingdom would unite themselves to
serve their own purposes. They had a common in-
terest amongst them, and ere long they would come
to an understanding in the same way as water and gas
companies had done in large towns. By this under-
standing they would secure to themselves a great and
extensive monopoly, and it, therefore, became im-
portant that Parliament should take some immediate
and decisive steps to avert this coming evil. He con-
cluded by moving the following resolutions :-
1. That it is the duty of Parliament, in giving its
sanction to the establishment of new railways, to render
them the means of affording to the public the best
and safest communication, and the greatest possible
amount of accommodation, at the lowest possible rates.
2. That the clauses heretofore introduced into Railway
Bills to limit the amount of tolls to be demanded for
the use of the railway, having proved practically in-
operative, it is expedient to make more effectual pro-
vision against the undue enhancement of the cost of
travelling and transportation in every future Railway
Bill, by fixing the highest rates which the Railway
Company shall be allowed to charge for the conveyance
of passengers and goods.
3. That for this purpose every Committee on a Rail-
way Bill, introduced in the present or any future session
of Parliament, shall report a table of fees and charges,
the lowest which they shall judge to be consistent, under
the circumstances of each case, with a fair and reason-
able return for the capital to be invested.
4. And that every Committee to which two or more
competing projects for new railways may be referred,
shall require the promoters of each to put in statements
as to the rates of charge for the conveyance of passen-
gers and goods to which they are content to be limited,
and the amount of accommodation which they will bind
themselves to provide for the public at those rates ; and
that., in determining on the comparative merits of com-
peting schemes, regard shall be had to the extent and
nature of the advantages which can be thus reserved to
the public from each.
Mr. WARBURTON seconded the motion. At
first he had been inclined to sanction all the contem-
plated railways, believing them to be for the public
interest, and that they would lead to fair and equita-
ble competition. But since he had read the railway
reports which had come from the Board of Trade, he
could not conceal from himself that they must give
great dissatisfaction to all the established railway com-
panies. Indeed it was a matter of general conversa-
tion and dissatisfaction amongst those railway com-
panies, that these reports were founded upon Conser-
vative principles. That was the expression used, he
believed, by the managers, directors, and proprietors
of old established railways, when they happened to
speak of those reports. The Board of Trade stepped
in and decided on the question, whether those capi-
talists who were going to lay out their money were
doing it profitably to themselves ? Did they act on
this principle v. ith respect to any other investment of
capital ? had they done so in case of turnpike roads ?
There was a turnpike road on both sides of the river
Avon, quite parallel to each other. But he had never
heard that any objection had been made to gentlemen
who were disposed to invest their money in shares in
these roads, or that they were impeded from doing so
because it would be an unprofitable investment
of their capital. It appeared to be the de-
termination of the Board of Trade to throw
the extension of railway communication as much as
possible into the hands of the existing railroad
companies. It seemed as if a partial monopoly was
likely to be created, not only by the reports of the
Board of Trade, but by the tendencies of these com-
panies running lines through contiguous districts to
amalgamate, either by the purchase of the interests of
one company by the other, or by some individual
taking a lease of the line. It was notorious that the
line between Newcastle and Bristol was either leased
or about to be leased to the same individual. It was
necessary that Parliament should interpose some
check to this. Why not adopt the same system as
that of foreign railways, and establish a maximum of
rates beyond which a company could not go. On
turnpike-roads they fixed a maximum of tolls, and
more than that, the Turnpike-roads Act required re-
newal after a certain term of years ; but the public
had no such protection in the case of railway companies.
Extend the time of those leases even so far as ninety-
nine years if they would ; but if they did not inter-
pose some limit, the lines would fall into a limited
number of hands ; and it was a matter of apprehen-
sion with him that if this should happen the result
would be that the Government would eventually get
them, and if so, then they would be dealt with, not as
a public convenience but as a means of revenue, and
then they would be placed in the position of the Post-
office. He begged to apologise for delaying the
House so long, and to second the motion.
The SPEAKER then put the question, when—
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET rose and said
it was not his intention to allude to all the topics
introduced into his motion by the Hon. Member op-
posite. The Hon: Member bad introduced a vast
variety of topics, very few of which had any connexion
whatever with the subject itself. But he (Lord
Granville Somerset) would say he was not pre-
pared to deny that error had been fallen
into in laying down the scale of charges.
It was notorious that when Parliament fixed a maxi-
mum of toll, they imagined that they were protect-
ing the country against any overcharge on the part
of the company, and not lending themselves., as had
proved to be the case to an illusory management.—
(Cheers.) He would not deny that in some instances
the result of the present system had been, to enable
railroad companies to impose higher charges in the
carrying of goods and passengers than was fair or
just.—(Hear, hear.) But he could not help suspect-
ing that hereafter these charges would be regulated
by the same principles as those which regulated the
charges of other public bodies which undertook to
afford accommodation of any sort to the public. It
did not exactly follow that railroads running to the
same terminus were the only competing lines. A
great number of passengers looked more to
cheapness than to time, and a great number would
go round a considerable distance to save money.
Other lines therefore would exert a great influence in
regulating the charges for passengers, although per-
haps they might not run to the same terminus. Let

(the Member for Inverness) had said that the attempt
to establish a maximum of tolls on railways had
proved altogether nugatory. This he believed, and
he thought the time was come when Parliament
should interfere to protect the public against the ex-
cessive charges, both for passengers and goods, to
which in many instances they were subjected by
railway companies. It was well known that a re-
duction of fares generally produced an increase in
the receipts. But in many instances a larger reduc-
tion of fares did not produce an immediate benefit.
The income was at first somewhat reduced, and
railway directors naturally felt a great inclination
to try fresh experiments. On the Great Western and
Birmingham lines the charges were considerably too
high, and he believed that a reduction in their prices
would be advantageous to the companies as well as
to the public ; for experience had shown that such a
result almost invariably occurred. He knew that it
was difficult to interfere with companies which were
already established, but he thought that in the new
Bills such clauses might be introduced as would im-
pose a low table of rates; and those low rates, as they
would be levied by companies possessing in some
respect lines competing with the old ones, would tend
to bring down the rates of the old lines. Perhaps it
was hardly fair to put the new lines under less advan-
tageous circumstances than the old ones ; but it
should be recollected they were formed at less ex-
pense, and with greater probability of traffic. In
France high fares were not necessary, to secure a
fair remuneration for the proprietors. There were
two plans by which railway proprietors looked for
their returns, either by charging a considerable rate,
and depending for remuneration on their first-class
passengers, or else by very low fares to very largely
increase their traffic. They could not, as the Noble
Lord said, put up railways to auction, and knock
them down at will. Their interests, he knew, were
to be considered, but so also were the interests of the
public. This was a very material element in deciding
upon the rates which railways should be entitled to
demand. He deeply lamented that something had not
been done long before this, and he hoped, therefore,
that, though late, the present occasion would not be
lost. There was one point which had been mooted
by the Hon. Member, and which well deserved the
consideration of the House. The French lines, by the
Acts which authorised their formation, reverted, after
a certain period, to the Crown. Now he thought some
principle of this kind might be adopted with advantage
He would not state any particular time ; he would
give to the railway companies a sufficient time to
realise their property, but after that period they
should revert, like the French, to the State. Ile
might name the ordinary terms for building leases,
ninety-nine years. Now ninety-nine years was a
long period in the lives of individuals, but it was
but a very short period in the life of a country.
They must recollect, as one reason why he would
apply this principle to the new lines, that though
several lines had already been formed, a great many
more would, to a certainty, be hereafter constructed,
and they must look to the future and legislate for
posterity. A heavy debt had come down to posterity,
and it would be a sort of set-off hereafter if these
railway lines should become the property of the
public. He had always felt a facility in communica-
tion was one of the very great necessaries—one
of the indispensible requisites in a high state
of civilisation.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") They
were in a crisis of railway legislation, and he hoped
that her Majesty's Government, before the Bills now
in the House went into Committee, would take the
subject into their serious consideration, for the doing
so would, he was assured, be a great advantage to the
public.
Sir R. PEEL said, this was a subject which the
more it was considered was seen to be surrounded
with the greatest difficulties. On the one hand, it
was impossible not to feel that competition in the case
of railways did not give that perfect security as to
charges which was afforded by competition generally
in other undertakings. In the case of stage-coaches
and of post-horses an effectual check was given to
high charges by competition ; for, if one innkeeper
charged 2s. a mile for a pair of horses, and another
ls. 6d., the latter would be most likely to secure the
patronage of the public. But, in the case of railways,
a long period must elapse before any check in the
form of competition could be brought into operation ;
for, if a railway company now established, and having
a monopoly, adopted exorbitant charges, a long prepa-
ratory system of conoert and consideration was neces-
sary before a competitor could enter the lists. A com-
pany must be formed ; subscriptions must be obtained;
then there was great uncertainty as to the grant if a
Bill by Parliament; and, before a Bill could be passed,
the monopolising company might have reduced its
charges, and the necessity of competition would conse-
quently be materially diminished. He agreed with
the Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland that it
was difficult to overrate the importance of this sub-
ject. It was of the highest importance that they
should increase the facilities of communication, and
that they should diminish the charges of locomotion.
lie (Sir R. Peel) (lid not look merely at the pecuniary
saving to be effected, but he could not conceive a
greater political advantage—anything more likely to
improve the social character and habits of the people,
than the extension of the means of intercourse be-
tween different parts of the country. He would make
no reference to any individual railway schemes ; but
he thought they ought to look forward to the result
of mechanical improvements as applied to those
schemes, and they might depend upon it—speaking of
ultimate results—that the shortest lines would be pre-
ferred.—(Hear, hear.) The tendency of the im-
provements which were almost daily introduced
was decidedly in favour of the shortest lines. He
(Sir R. Peel) had expressed this opinion in the
year 1839. They chose to establish a railroad
between Liverpool, Manchester, and London,
and it was thought desirable that the line should
go round by Birmingham. It was said, " Include
Birmingham by all means in your line between Liver-
pool and London ; it is useless to take a shorter line
through a country much less productive." He (Sir
R. Peel) then ventured to predict that the people of
Liverpool and of Manchester would not be sent round
ten or twelve miles out of the direct line in their
journey to the metropolis. lii 1845 it was found that
the shortest line was the best, and that Birmingham
ought not to be included in the route ; but 170,000/.
had been expended in testing the merits of the scheme,
and, without in any degree undervaluing the legal
profession—(A laugh)—he must say that so large a
sum spent in such a manner was worse than thrown
away. Now, in order to save a distance of nine miles
between Liverpool and Manchester, this new line,
making a cut from Rugby to Stafford, was about to
be established with universal consent. This ought,
in his opinion, to be a lesson to the House. He did
not wish to refer to any particular line of railway,
but speaking generally, and contemplating ultimate
results, he was certain that when they were estab-
lishing communications between different parts of this
country and between Scotland and Ireland and this
metropolis, whatever course they might now take,
many years would not elapse before the shortest
lines would be preferred. It must be under-
stood, however, that he did not mean the
i
shortest line merely n respect of distance. He
thought there was too great a tendency to adopt
the shortest lines, without reference to gradients.
Though in recent instances unfavourable gradients
had been overcome by the construction of new en-
gines, he doubted whether there was not an unprofit-
able expenditure of power in such cases—whether the
mechanical power of locomotive engines was not ma-
terially interfered with by unfavourable gradients;
and whether the exertions made to diminish the gra-
dients, and to run as nearly as possible upon a level,
would not be amply repaid. He was alluding not to
the shortest lines merely with regard to distance, but
to the shortest lines in point of time. Though the
question of controlling the charges of railway com-
panies was one of great importance, it was encom-
passed with numerous difficulties. Suppose that two
companies undertook competing lines, and that one
of them said, "We will afford the public most ample
accommodation; our carriages for every class of pas-
sengers shall be most convenient, and our third-class
carriages shall be constructed with a view to the
health and comfort of the poor who travel by them ;
but in order to do this we must make certain charges."
Then suppose another company said, " We will un-
dertake the line at a lower rate of charges ;" surely
it was not fair to assume that a decided pre-
ference should be given to the latter ?—(Hear,
hear.) They ought not to disregard altogether
the advantages held out by the former. But all
the check that was to be imposed was a pecuniary
check. [Lord Howick was understood to say,
that was not the only check that ought to be im-
posed.] How were they to provide against imperfect
vigilance, ill-conducted establishments, inconvenient
carriages, and disregard of the public comfort and
accommodation ? He did not see how this check
could be made perfectly effective in these respects.
It was difficult to say what was the proper check,
and to reconcile the difficulties by which the question
was encompassed. It must be remembered, that it
was necessary to hold out inducements which would
lead men of capital to embark in such undertakings
as railway schemes. It was very well to say, " Look
at the profits of the London and Birmingham and
Great Western Railway Companies—are they not
extravagant ?" Hon. Gentlemen must recollect the
risk of those persons who invested money in these
speculations ; they must remember how uncertain
was the return upon the millions invested in the Lon-
don and Birmingham Railway, and what must have
been the consequences to the shareholders had that
undertaking proved a failure. Mr. M`Culloch, writ-
ing in 1834, said, "It is true that the railway between
Liverpool and Manchester has answered, but th
e cir-
cumstances of that railway are so peculiar that it is n?,
criterion of the probable success of other railways."
That eminent man, writing only ten years ago, ex-
pressed his belief that profitable lines of railway
communication could not be established to any

them take the case of Worcester. There was a direct
competition .for railroad conveyance between London
and Worcester, between two companies which were
directly opposed to each other—the London and Bir-
mingham and the Great Western. The charges for
the conveyance of passengers to Worcester would be
regulated by the competition between these two com-
panies. The proposition of the Hon. Gentleman did
not contain any great advantage over the present
system. At the present moment all the matters to
which he had alluded were made subjects of inquiry
before the Standing Orders Committee. The only
material alteration he proposed to introduce was, the
fixing a maximum charge. Now, he feared
that if they fixed a maximum charge it would
be an encouragement to railway companies to keep
up their charges.—(Hear, hear.) He did. not think
that it would do for the Committees of that House
to adopt the plan proposed by the Hon. Gentleman.
If they once got into the habit, while Bills were
passing, of listening to offers from companies as to
which should carry passengers cheapest, he was afraid
that, not only would the accommodation afforded to
the public be lessened, but that serious danger would
ensue. Now, with regard to the Honourable Mem-
ber's motion, they would have to consider how far
their present standing orders were sufficient to effect
the object which the Honourable Member had in
view. Many of the existing standing orders
would have to be struck out and others sub-
stituted, for it could not be supposed that the
Committees would be bound by these resolutions.
With regard to the mode in which the lion. Gentle-
man proposed to carry out his proposition, he must
say that all the railway Bills contained clauses carry-
ing out the proposition of the Honourable Member.
Whether they were useful or not he had already
stated his opinion, but they did state what ought to
be the principles of the maximum of tolls. He
thought it much better that the line from London to
Exeter should be under one management than under
many. As it was now, people travelled in five
h)urs from Exeter to London ; but he thought
it would be very different if it was in many hands.
For these reasons he would advise the Hon. Member
to withdraw these resolutions. But if he could de-
vise any other mode of attaining the object he had
in view, so mach was he impressed with the
importance of the principle, that he was quite
ready to go with him. For instance, if he would
propose some alteration of the standing orders of the
House, which would have the effect of obliging rail
way companies, before their coming to Parliament, to
lay down some rate of charges, it might accomplish
the end desired. But as great inconvenience would
arise from passing the resolutions in their present
shape, he trusted that he would now withdraw them.
Lord HOWICK said that he had heard with great
satisfaction the declaration of the Noble Lord (Lord
G. Somerset) that though he did not coincide alto-
gether in the terms of these:resolutions, yet that he
was prepared to accede to the principles which they
contained. And if the Hon. Member should be in-
duced to withdraw them, he hoped that her Majesty's
Ministers would adopt some other mode, and that
speedily, to accomplish the object at which these
re solutions aimed. At any rate he trusted that the
Government would take up the matter, and give it
their best attention, before the great mass of railway
Bills which had been introduced this session were
committed, so that some general rules might be esta-
blished to give the advantage of cheap as well as
speedy communication between different parts of the
country, without having any check imposed upon the
exorbitance of railway directors. Liis lion, Friend '

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY MORNING, MARCH 22, 1845.

great extent. Yet the proprietors of the railways he '
(Sir R. Peel) had mentioned, when the result of the
speculation was so uncertain, committed themselves
to the extent of 6,000,0001. ; and was it to be said
now, when railroads could be conducted at so much
less expense, that 4 per cent. was enough to remune-
rate them for their enterprise, while, had the capital
they embarked been lost, the country would have
made them no compensation ? The Noble Lord
(Lord Howick) seemed to think that if a maximum
rate of charge were prescribed in the case of new
railways, the old companies would be induced to adopt
a similar scale of fares ; but of that he (Sir R. Peel)
was by no means certain. It might happen that, on
a railway where only 10 trains were now run daily,
it might become necessary in a year or two to run
20; and, while the public called for this increased
accommodation would they provide by an inflexible
rule that, under no circumstances, should the corn- .
pany charge more than a certain amount of fares ?
He (Sir R. Peel) wished that the influence and
authority of the Government could be clearly exerted
for the purpose of insuring a good principle of action;
but the more he considered the subject the more was he
convinced of its difficulties. In order to achieve a
temporary object, in order to reduce the extra-
vagant charges, it was now proposed to act
upon a principle with regard to railways which
Honourable Gentlemen who suggested it would hesi-
tate to apply to ordinary commercial legislation.
They did not say to the dealer in ordinary commo-
dities, " Such is the maximum charge you ought to
make for your goods." The present case might be
rather special, but he doubted whether it was so
special as to justify them in departing from the rule
applied in other cases. He thought that it would
not be desirable to lay down any general rule for the
conduct of the Committees; but he trusted, as their
number was limited, that each would feel that it had
a public duty to discharge, and that each would do
its best to further the public interest. He did not
know how the Government could interfere, except
by the expression of a hope that the Committees
would do all in their power for the benefit of the com-
munity.— (Hear, hear.) He did not wish to notice
the resolutions in detail, but lie trusted that the Hon.
Gentleman opposite, after the discussion that had
taken place, would consent either that the previous
question should be moved or withdraw his motion.
In the first place, he thought it was very unwise for
the House to agree hastily to any resolution laying
down what it was "the duty" of Parliament to do.—
(Hear, hear.) Then, as to the " maximum charge,"
he had already stated his reasons for not hurrying on
to a conclusion as regarded that paragraph of the re-
solution ; at any rate, he was sure that before the
House sanctioned the principle of establishing a
maximum of charge the subject ought to undergo a
much fuller consideration than it had received in the
course of that discussion.—(Hear.)
Mr. J. E. DENISON said that the Right llon.
Baronet, in an early part of the session, had stated
that the reports of the Board of Trade were by no
means intended to be final. Ile (Mr. Denison) was
of opinion that, when a report was issued by the
Board, the grounds upon which it was founded should
be discussed in that House before such report was
sent to the Committees, as a guide to them in the
decision they should come to.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. S. WORTLEY (West Yorkshire) did not
exactly see how the suggestion of his Hon. Friend
who had just sat down—though be agreed that great
inconvenience had arisen from the present arrange-
ment—could be carried out. He did trust, however,
that the Committee would not consider the decisions
of the Board of Trade final, though an opinion, he
believed, had gone abroad, amounting almost to a
belief; that their decisions were to be regarded in that
light. He (Mr. Wortley) was ready to concede to
the Board of Trade every credit for the manner in
which they had conducted the business which had
been intrusted bo them ; but, notwithstanding, he
should he veiny sorry to have it assumed that their
reports were final decisions, when they were, in fact,
merely preliminary inquiries entered into with the
view of assisting the Committees; and he did hope
that the Committees appointed by that House
would be sensible that with themselves still rested the
responsibility of sifting the merits of every scheme
brought before them, and that they would express
their opinions freely and independently, both as to the
merits of the schemes and of the suggestions of the
Board of the Trade. With regard to limiting the
charges on railways, he must admit that that part of
the question was full of difficulties ; but that was no
reason for abandoning all attempts to overcome it.
Originally he believed that Parliament had intended
to have applied some limitation of the description pro-
posed, and though it had failed hitherto, he did not
know but that the principle would be consistent with
the practice of Parliament and advantageous to the
public. He hoped if his Noble Friend (Lord G.
Somerset) could see any means of meet.ng the propo-
sition, that he would not fail to act upon it.
Lord G. SOMERSET was understood to say that
he would direct his attention again to the subject.
Sir G. GREY was of opinion that the best plan
that could be adopted was that which the House had
acted upon lately—viz., to establish as competent a
tribunal as possible for the examination of the details
of the Bill, and to discourage, as much as possible,
any appeal from that tribunal to that House ; but
there were certain great principles which must come
before Committees, in the course of the session, affect-
ing the guidance of railways, which, though it was
difficult to determine how they should be disposed of,
were, he thought, worthy of the consideration of the
House. It would be extremely unadvisable, and it
would be a blot in our railway legislation, if there
were to be a great want of uniformity in the Bills
• and in the decisions of the Committees. Let them
look at some of the principles which the Committees
would have to decide upon. First, there was that
great and important principle which had occupied a
prominent place in the reports of the Board of Trade
—the principle of " competition," to which also the
Right Hon. Gentleman had referred. Were the
railway Committees to act upon the principle that
competition was undesirable, or were they to trust to
competition for the purpose of securing to the public
the benefits which might be supposed to arise from
it ? Then, again, there was the subject of " gra-
dients," which had been also referred to by the Right
lion. Baronet. Let the house look at the report of
the Board of Trade upon the West Yorkshire Rail-
way. They entered there very fully into the sub-
ject, and took exactly an opposite view to that which
the Right Hon. Baronet had taken of it. They jus-
tified their preference of a line which had worse gra-
dients than another that was before them, by saying
that the improved power of locomotive engines now
was such, that it was riot worth the while of com-
panies to incur a great expense in looking for good
gradients and good curves.—(Hear, hear.) That
report would go before a Committee of five gentle-
men, and would naturally have a great influence with
them. These were subjects which he thought it was
desirable that the House should determine on.—
(Hear, hear.) With reference to the principle which
had been introduced in the resolution of his Hon.
Friend, he would say, that Parliament had from the
first proposed to limit the charges on railways, but
that it had been attempted in a way that was per-
fectly illusory. He repeated, that Parliament having
originally felt that monopolies might be created by
railway companies, did attempt to guard against
them, but that in that attempt they had utterly failed.
—(Hear, hear.) He quite agreed with the Right
Hon. Gentleman that the country was greatly in-
debted to those companies and gentlemen who had
originally risked their capital upon railway schemes,
and who had brought the railway system to its pre-
sent state; but looking at the great number of Bills
to be brought in this session, and considering that in
a short time railways would supersede every other
mode of travelling, he did think that the Government
ought seriously to turn its attention to the question
whether some more effective method might not be
adopted with the view of preventing the evils which
had been referred to in the course of the debate, and
to the existence of which it was impossible that they
could shut their eyes.---(Hear, hear.) He had risen,
however, principally to state his opinion that there
should be sonic uniformity in the decisions of the
Committees, to insure which he thought that great
matters of principle should be discussed in that
House.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. PARKER had no doubt that every one was
desirous, or that it was the duty of the House to see
that the public should be carried at as low a rate as
possible upon railways ; but if the House laid down
any plan fbr limiting the charges, founded upon the
supposition that acting upon that plan every railway
company would receive a fair and just remuneration
for their enteprise and the outlay of their capital, had
the House not also a corresponding duty to perform
on the part of the companies ? Should not the house
in such a case guarantee to the companies an amount
of remuneration somewhat approaching that which
their enterprise merited?—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MORISON then consented to withdraw his
motion, and it was withdrawn accordingly.

It is said that Mr. Colburn has in the press a new
work by the author of " Coningsby."
TROTTING MATCH FOR FIFTY PouNDs.--Thurs-
day morning (Thursday) the match between Mr. Lee's
celebrated horse, Highflyer, and Mr. Collett's horse, to
trot two miles in harness, came off over that distance of
road, on Wimbledon-common. The match has been for
some time pending, and attracted a good muster of the
local sporting fraternity. The horses, harnessed to
light carts, were brought to the starting place, andhwere
quickly at the conto..t. They continued nearly together
three quarters of a mile, when Highflyer broke, and his
opponent went ahead, and turned the mile in three
minutes and sixteen seconds, being forty yards in ad-
vance ; and when within a quarter of a mile of the goal,
the horses were trotting at great speed, and were in
equal positions as to winning ; and after a very splendid
race, Highflyer trotted in the winner by fifteen yards,
accomplishing the two miles of road in seven minutes and
three seconds, and apparently little the worse for the
rue. The horses were driven by their respective owners.

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS.

PROM THE EVENING PAPERS Or YESTERDAY.

GLOBE.—The increased grant to Maynooth Col-
lege was the subject of two notices of motions last even-
ing in the House of Commons. Sir Robert Peel gave
notice that he should, on the 3d of May, move that the
House take intoconsideration the proposed grant to May-
nooth. Mr. Ward gave notice that he should, on a fu-
ture day, propose that all further money grants for the
purpose of religion, be made out of the funds appro-
priated to the maintenance of the Protestant Episcopal
Church. It will be at once seen that these two notices
involve the entire controversy to which the proposed in-
creased grant to Maynooth necessarily gives rise. First.
the expediency of the proposed increase. Secondly, the
funds out of which the increased grant to Maynooth
shall be supplied. The former applies itself to the pro.
priety of endowing Popery at all ; the latter raises the
question, whether the very ample revenues of the
Church of the minority ought not to provide the funds
for this increased amount to the ecclesiastical school
of the majority ? It is already known that the
Premier intends to make this increased annual sum
to Maynooth a permanent payment. It will there-
fore be no longer the theme of annual debate in the
House of Commons, or of strife out of doors. The
question, if settled now, will be settled once for all—
this, at least, is the intention of the Government.
Sir Robert Peel has afforded ample time for deli-
beration. Whether the Right Hon. Baronet was desirous
of feeling his way before he encountered the formi
dable opposition, both within and without tLe walls of
Parliament, which ho is aware is preparing to meet his
proposal, and therefore fixed a distant day, to afford him
time for conciliating the malcontents on his own side
of the House ; or whether, relying upon his subservient
majority, he looks down from the height of his power
upon the contemptible things which venture to lift up
their puny voices ogainst his will—whom he leaves to
complain, or to be silent, as they may be disposed—
it may not be easy to decide. The six weeks
will be employed in preparing for a resistance
to this measure more formidable than any which the
Government has had to deal with since its accession to
office. We have some claim on the confidence of Minis-
ters, so far as pre-monitions of such movements are con-
cerned. We cautioned and warned them against the
storm which was preparing for their factory-children
education scheme in 1842. The tokens of that well-
arranged and simultaneous agitation, provoked by an
uncalled-for attempt by the Government to cripple, if
not to destroy, the Sunday and week-day schools of the
Wesleyans, and other bodies of Dissenters from the Es-
tablished Church, resulted in that cordial union of the
sectaries before which the power, of the Government was
weakness. Have Sir Robert Peel and Sir J. Graham
so soon lost the impressions made on them by the
scenes which the House of Commons exhibited, night
after night, in April and May, 1842 ? The table and
floor of the House literally covered with petitions—the
agitation out of doors increasing as the Government
evinced a disposition to recede—until, at length,
unable to subdue the storm it had excited, and fear-
ful of encountering its energy, the obnoxious measure
was withdrawn. The same spirit has been again suc-
cessfully invoked. The same indomitable opposition is
in preparation. The stern determination which
pervaded the different bodies of sectaries in
1842 and which they embodied in the many
thousands of numerously-signed petitions with which
they importuned the House of Commons to reject
the measure—is rapidly taking possession of those
stern hereditary adherents to Protestantism, and firm
opponents of Popery in its creeds and practices. We
write advisedly. We state with confidence that there
will be an opposition as firm, as numerous, as well
concocted and arranged, as energetically expressed
in hosts of petitions as numerously signed, and
as earnestly enforced, to this attempt to endow
the Roman Catholic College of Maynooth out of
the national revenue, as any measure which has ema-
nated from the expediency-guided Cabinet of Sir Robert
Peel ; or would have been called forth had such
a measure been proposed by a Whig Administration,
and Sir Robert Peel had been prompted, by the
hope of office, to denounce it—as he would then
have denounced it--as a measure fraught with danger
to the Protestant institutions of the land. The members
of the Established Church in both countries will, to a
very large extent, swell this torrent of discontent with
the Premier's proposed endowment of Popery. To the na-
tional jealousy of the real or imaginary aggressive policy
of the Roman Catholic religion which pervades the great
majority of the people of England and Scotland, every
class of the Irish Protestants will be added. Sir R.
Peel's policy in Opposition was to preserve and foment
these feelings. He employed them to gain the object of
his ambition. Can he complain if they do not now sub-
side? Having effected the purpose for which he in-
voked their aid, he now finds it convenient, for its
changed position, that they should be at peace! But
having sown to the wind, he will reap the whirlwind.