The Sun.
London, England, 1827-02-15 00:00:00

nally drawn up in the Ancient British language, but it had been
carefully translated, to be presented to their Lordships.
The Marquess of LANSDOWN, in rising to pre-
sent the petitions of which he had on a former evening given
notice, said he bad thought it right, from the respect due to their
Lordships, as well as from the respect due to the petitioners,
whose petitions he was then to have the honour to present to
their Lordships, to give notice of his intention to present them this
day; but he did not, therefore, mean to go into any discussion of
the general question relative to the Catholics. He felt it, however,
to be his duty towards the petitioners to state, with respect to
the first petition—similar petitions to which had frequently
been under their Lordships' consideration, and which was the
Petition of the Roman Catholics of Ireland—as well as with re-
spect to the second petition, which was then, for the first time,
presented to their Lordships, and was from the Roman Catho-
lic Bishops of Ireland—that he had read them both very care-
fully, and he could assure their Lordships that there was not one
expression, in both the petitions, disrespectful to their Lord-
ships; he would say, not only not one disrespectful expression,
but not one expression which any Noble Lord, the most hostile
to the petitioners' claims, could construe into disrespect to their
Lordships. He was sure that their Lordships would never find
it disrespectful in any class or description of his Majesty's sub-
jects to come forward, and state explicitly and plainly the claims
they might have on account of services already rendered, or of
services they were disposed to render—claims which, he thought,
were not only the privileges of every subject of this realm, but
which it was their duty to make—that, for these services, they
might receive that proper reward, which was to be found in a full
participation of all the honours and blessings to be enjoyed under
the constitution of this country. The petitioners first stated
plainly and clearly, the privations to which they were exposed
by the law; after which, they proceeded to point out the indi-
rect privations which the privations imposed by the laws
brought on them, and to which the laws did not intend to sub-
ject them. They then proceeded to state that these privations,
existing only for one class of the King's subjects, exposed
them to be marked by their fellow-subjects, and thereby placed
a bar between them which ought not to exist. Having stated
thus much, he would not enter further into the merits of the
question; but he could not avoid calling the attention of their
Lordships to two circumstances connected with-the petitioners—
he meant their numbers and their property. Their numbers
must have been known to their Lordships on former occasions;
and though he would not take on himself to assert that they were
now much more numerous, yet he was sure, if their numbers
had not increased, they had not diminished ; and if their Lord-
ships now compared them with their numbers when they first
came before their Lordships, they would find, he thought,
a great difference. But, if they had not increased in numbers,
he had no difficulty in stating, that, in respect to property, there
had been a very material alteration since they first petitioned their
Lordships. They had acquired much more wealth, and possessed
now much more property than formerly. Nobody knew better
than he (the Noble Marquess) did, the fallacy of all statistical
statements, which were not verified by exact and official docu-
ments ; but lie could state—and he believed every Noble Lord who
knew any thing of Ireland would confirm the statement—that the
property of the Catholics, both moveable and immoveable, was in-
creasing in amount, in almost every part of,lreland. It was at pre-
sent greater than at any former period, and was rapidly increasing.
With that property their power increased, both directly, and from
that influence which property always gave. The power thus ac-
quired could not he allowed to occupy a neutral space in the poli-
tical course of the country. If properly brought into harmony
with the settled current of our social system, we should derive
from it, inevitably, all that increase of national power and wealth
it was calculated to give ; and if not, instead of finding it a
source of happiness and strength, it would bring on mischief
and destruction. He had mentioned these changes, as lie thought
them worthy of their Lordships' consideration, when the
measure relative to the Catholics should comes before them
at a future time. He had only said thus much ; be-
cause, in presenting these Petitions, he felt it due to
himself and to the petitioners, and he should enter fully into the
general question when he submitted a substantive proposition to
their Lordships, which it was his intention hereafter to do. He
should then be able to argue the question fully, and with refe-
rence, not to a part of the King's subjects, but on grounds of
public national interest, closely connected with the welfare of the
Protestant interest, of the Protestant establishment, the Protest-
ant church, and Protestant throne of this country. The motion
he should submit to their Lordships would be supported by a con-
sideration that had a reference to the good of the whole country,
which could only be promoted.. he thought, by admitting all our
Catholic fellow-subjects te the full participations of all the bles-
sings of our Constitution. When he brought forward his motion,
lie should point out plainly what cons-se he thought ought to be
pursued, and he should put it to those Noble Lords who might
differ from him, to point out as plainly—if they refused to listen
to his proposition—what course they proposed to pursue for the
political improvement of Ireland, because lie believed there was
not one Noble Lord in that House who would say that Ireland
ought or could remain in its present political situation. The
Noble Marquis concluded by moving, that the first petition—the
general petition of the Catholics of Ireland—should be read at
length.
After the petition had been read,

The Noble MARQUESS rose to present the se-
cond petition, from the Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland.
Their Lordships would, he hoped, bear the petition read at length, I
as it would make them acquainted on the authority of these gen-
tlemen, and in an authentic form, with the opinions entertained
by the Irish Catholic Church, with respect to some controverted
points of importance. They expressed to their Lordships, that
they were not disposed to disturb the loyalty and obedience of
their countrymen ; that, on the contrary, they had always endea-
voured to promote the peace of the country. He would not enter
into the religious part of the petition, hut he believed that none
of their Lordships would deny that, but for their useful, their un-
wearied endeavours to preserve the peace of Ireland, tranquillity
could not exist in any part of it.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—The
Noble Marquess then moved, that the petition be recd.—During
the reading of it, the Earl of Liverpool removed to the table, and
seemed to pay particular attention to it. After the petition had
been read, it was discovered to he informal, in not having, we
believe, any signatures attached to the first sheet of the Petition ;
and on

The Earl of LIVERPOOL'S suggesting that the
ipformality might be remedied if the petition were withdrawn,
which, hg observed, would not be of much consequence, as the
petition had been reed,
The Marquis of LANSDQWN consented to with-
draw it. The Noble Marquis then gave notice, that he should
submit a proposition to their Lordships relative to the Catholics,
founded on the petitions just read, on Thursday, March Bth. He
was not ignorant that before that time it was probable the sub-
ject would be agitated in another place ; but he gave the notice,
because, whatever might be the result of the discussion elsewhere,
it was his intention to submit a preposition to their Lordships•
He was most anxious to do so, because the responsibility of not
having brought the question before their Lordships last Session
belonged to him, and feeling anxious to do hie duty to the pe-
titioners, -it ',was his intention, whatever might be the course
adopted by the other House, to submit a motion to their Lordships.

The Earl of WINeYIELSEA (in what was, we
believe, his first speech in the !louse of Peers) said he did not in-
tend to enter into the whole question any more than the Noble
Marquis, as he should avail himself of the opportunity that would
speedily offer to explain his own opinion of the propriety of grant-
ing further concessions to the Catholics ; but lie sincerely trusted,
before their Lordships consented to admit the Papists to the full
enjoyment of political power—before they were allowed to fill high
stations of trust and honour—before their Lordships consented to
repeal the Test Act—before they conceded any thing more to the
Catholics—that they would carefully examine the grounds on
which the wisdom of our ancestor* had found it proper and expe-
dient to exclude the Catholics from the enjoyment of political
power. He felt it very gratifying to be able to state, as one of
the changes that was going on, that a peculiar and striking one
was the reformation which was undoubtedly taking place, and
might at no distant period include the great majority of the Ca-
tholics of Ireland. He was not also without hope of seeing their
Lordships' attention c4lllO to an examination of that political
power which the Roman Catholic Priesthood had exercised over
their flocks for the last 12 months: He trusted their Lordships
would not abandon the course they had hitherto pursued, from any
subserviency to public clamour or views of political expediency.

- -
Lord CLIFDEN coinmded that the Roman Ca-
tholics were not Papists, and he expressed 165 doubts if the refor-
mation in Ireland were so extensive as the Noble Earl imagined.
He was convinced that the best way to promote such a reformar
tion would be to put an end to the penal laws against the Catho-
lics. At least, he felt for himself, and be believed it was in hu-
man nature, that as long as any restrictions on them existed, as
long as their peculiar faith er.posek them to peculiar hardships, so
long would a feeling of honour prevent numbers from deserting
their ranks.—(Hear, hear. )—I will not desert my people while
they are under a cloud, was an old, and, he believed a Scripture
saying. He fully agreed with his Noble Friend, that the Catholics
never were stronger than at present; and he wished the Noble Earl,
who was strongly opposed to them, would tell how the question
could be settled, and the peace of Ireland secured. The