The Sun.
London, England, 1829-04-04 00:00:00

Lord Farnham, and several other Noble Peer a, rose
amidst loud cries of " Question, question."
Lord FARNHAM with great difficulty, at last ob-
tained a hearing, and said —I can assure your Lordships,
1 should no; have occupied your time at this late hour,
had it been possible for me to have obtained a hearing
at an earlier moment. Ido think this, my Lords, a ques-
tion so important that every individual at all inle•
rested in the state of Ireland ought not to give his vote
upon the subject without stating the grounds on which
he gave it.—(Hear, hear.)—l will therefore, my Lords,
proceed at once to the state of Ireland. The Noble Duke
rested the notion solely on that ground, and upon that
ground I shall consider it. The great danger of this mea-
sure is danger to the Church of Ireland. It has been
taken up by the Noble Duke and others, for give
me leave to say there is no such church as that of Ire-
land. The only church recognized is the church of Great
Brritain, and ohat is the majority of the people.—
Therefore ii is a mistake made by the Noble Duke
and others who followed it. Though therefore be the churcq
Ireland be severed from the Church of England, following
the expression that has been made use of. I cannot
thick, my Lords, there is any prospect of a Union. I
think the great gallantry of the Noble and Learned
Lord's argumeni on this question (Lord Eldon) is
taking Roman Catholics to be what they really
are not. I believe, my Lords, the Catholics are sincere
sincere Catholics; the do not profess what thay not be-
lieve. I should be very sorry to apply the term idolaters
to the Catholics, which the Right Rev. Prelate (the Re-
gins Professor of Oxford thinks they ought not be called.
lut is not I would ask, the worship of a creature, in which
they say the body, soul, and divinity of our Lord Jesus
Christ is embodied, idolatry ? if not, what is it ? Then
do they believe this ? If not do the abjure it ? If the
abjure it they are not Catholics. I shall be sorry now to
enter into a long discussion, but I trust another opportu-
nity will occur. The House will resolve itself into a
Committee in all probability, but I hope the Honse will
adjourn. (Here the cries of Question became tremendous.)

The Duke of WELLINGTON and the Earl of WINCUIL-•
SEA rose together, but the cries for the Duke were deaf-

ening.

The Duke of WELLIFGTON—My Lords, it is now
necessary that I should make some observations in expla-
nation. And the first thing to be noticed is that which
fell from a Right Reverend Prelate respeeting the Catho-
lic Assoclation.—(Hear, hear.)—lt will be recollected that
I stated last year that it was extremely desirable that
something should be done for Ireland. But although I
endeavoured to find the means of controlling that Asso-
ciation, I do say, that being satisfied it was for the general
interests of this country to bring forward this
measure, it would not have been my duty to retire from
bringing it forward notwithstanding : the conduct
of those persons was not what I could approve.—
I beg further to remind your Lordships that it
was my duty to propose to Parliament a measure
to pur down the Association; and which has so far suc-
ceeded that there is now, and has been for some time, the
most perfect tranquillity in Ireland. The next point for
consideration is the assertion made to the Church of Eng-
land in Ireland The matter on which I expressed
myself two clays ago. I call, my Lords, upon those who
apprehend danger to state clearly whether it is a danger re-
sulting from legislation or from violence. If from legis-
lation, that the apprehension is puerile. Impossible to sup-
pose the small number of jurors who can by possibility be
admitted into the Houses, of the Catholic religion, consi-
daring that we have a Protestant Sovereign on the
Throne, it impossible, I say, that there ran be may
damp from the Legislation to the Church of England, and
Ireland. But, my Lords, I beg to observe that the
Union of Irelalul with England is the Union of the two
Churches. They are called the United Churches of
England aud Ireland, and it is impossible
that danger can result to the Church of Ireland
without a brech of the Union. There is another
point which I beg your Lordship to Over t t0.,-(Hear.)
Although it is provided to admit Catholics into
lid,ir4nt: yet admitting them, we have by an-
other measure to be brought forward, propose mesas
which mnat pot down the iulluence of the Catholic priesta
in elections in Jreland. Then, my Lor(1:4, another charge is
the uric agaißst say Collgaguee and myself made by a Noble
Earl (Eldon) on the pross:benphget of vitv,4 of consiltency.
.alinit that many of my Colleagues as well
did heretofo vote against measures of a simi-
tion with this. I must like:7:7' "Y that wess.a:l
la.l.srcerndry:as:e4;nifli.:
felt, when we allopte4 phis measure, that we were sacri-
ficing ourselves aril our popularity to 4-4.‘iellich we felt
our duty to our Sovereign and country. Wesknew per)ecti
well, that if we had chosen to put Ourselves 'at' 01e head
of the cry of Protestantism, we should have been moat
more populous than even those who have excited the cry
of Popery against us; but we should have left on the country
burtlieu which would have born it down altogether, and
we should have deserved the execration of the Country
for it. (Hear.) Lords, the Noble Earl has particularly
adverted to me, and he has spot en tor:n.7, Of compli-
ment on my services on fOimer occasions, which
tell that Noble Earl I have performed those securities
itarouo bad repute and good repute, and that I never was
to he prevented diacharzing my duty to the country, not.
withstanding the cry agairait was doing ifs I was
those arg-9ted by my Noble and Learld yrfe,n4
.of ae-
cresy In this transaetlog 094* J beg to state to my
r4l Friend, that f aerry,..4l)4i
J em very sorry, that any thing that has passed either on
my put, 9. the part of any body else, would have been
painful towards him ; sot, I must say, that my Noble and
Learned Friend has done ,that in the cow -4 of that discus-