The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-24 00:00:00

press a belief on 'the House

had done their duty,

and bad been actuated by a

sincere desire to benefit the Catholics of Ireland.

They felt *hat this was a necessa-y measure. It was an attempt
to conciliate the people of Ireland. It was not merely a series
of measures of concession, but it was an act of spontaneous
kindly motion on the part of the Government, and as such he
hoped it would be received, and not cause, as it was said it
would do, an accession to the ranks of repeal. He
thought that this feeling had been evinced by the Charitable
Bequests Act of last session. But it seemed that the fear of an
American war was to have a great effect in the terms of this
measure, as if that which had been already arranged, had been
at all affected by the message of the President.
Why this measure had been arranged so long ago as last
November, and he could assure the Bouse that the discussions

which had taken place in the American Legislature with respect
to Oregon had nut added one shilling to tlw grant to 31a)nooth,
an:l the speech of the President had had no more influence than

the, diFeussions themselves. He had anticipated that this
measure would have the effect of increasing the good-will be-
tween the several classes in Ireland, and he thought that the
expressions of good will with which it had been hailed in the
House would have the effect of allaying the discontent which
then prevailed in Ireland, That the measure :gas not yielded
to agitation was evident from the power which the Government

had shown to contend with agitation. And what aces mid with
respect to America? Was it not evident that the proceedings
of America had not tht slightest iiditience on the decisions

on this question, and to which the Hon. Member who intro-
duced this question had not made the slightest reference.
What, did the Hon. Member intend to lay the great stress of
his argument on taking a suns of such paltry amount as
311,000/. from the Consolidated Fund, fur effecting such a
great purpose as the conciliation of Ireland ? He (Sir Robert
Peel) believed, that the intentions of the Government woule.l
be plainly understood, and he would not attempt to justify
this grant by any reference to the compact with the Esta-
blished Church in Ireland. He would take a more enlarged
view of Establishments in general ; nor would he on the nar-
row ground which had been proposed, attempt at all to prove
anything in support of the Established Church. He might
cite the opinions of Sir J. Newport, Lord Plunkett, and others.
to show that the appropriation of such a sum would in no w av
infringe upon the claims of the Established Church.—( Hear. )
The Hon. Member who had introduced this motion had ex.-
pressed a fear that the whole of ,he principles en which the
Government had acted would be misunderstood in Ireland.—

(Hear, hear.) But he (Sir R. Peel) had reason tosaYlhat
the present impression in Ireland was highly satis-aetury, 8.3
showing the impression that was prevailing throughout that
country of the kindness and good will with which the present
Government were disposed to act towards it.—( Hear, hear.)
Ile must confess that one of the motives that had

induced this grant was the hope that it would lead to a
greater interchange of good will between the Catholic
and Protestant portion of the population. —( Hear, hear.) He
believed that it would not be looked upon by the Irish people
as a measure of concession to their fears, but as au iedication of
kindly feeling on the part of the Government and the people of
this country.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that there had been
as many petitions presented from the Protestants of Ireland in
favour of the measure as against it,—( Cheers)--and he did think
it most lion mrable to the feelings of the Irish Protestants that
they had come forward not to oppose the measure, but to sup-.
port it. They had called it a measure liberal and just towards
their Roman Catholic fellow-subjects—(Cheers)—and he did
believe that if the House approved this measure, and the spirit
in which it was propued, it would have the effect of propitia-
ting the Protestants of Ireland.—( Great cheering.) The Pro-
test ants of Ireland did not certainly expect that they would take
the revenues for the support of Maynooth from the Irish
Church, not that they cared for the money—the sum of
twenty-six thousand pounds was a minor considera-
tion—they rejoiced in the Government measure as a proof of
kindly feelings towards their fellow countrymen, but it would
certainly be somewhat dishonourable were they to exact the
sum required for the support of this institution from the funds:
of the Irish Church. He thought that the kindly feelings
evinced by the Protestants would in this ease meet with a very
ungenerous return. He utterly denied the justice of the mea-
sure proposed by the Hon. Member for Sheffield. If he had
been diverted from the course he had intended to pursue in
this debate, if he had said one word which was calculated to
throw any impediment in the way of Hon. Members on the
other side, who had been prepared to support this measure
of the Government, he deeply regretted it. But
he felt that after the language used by the Right
lieu. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, it would
be necessary for him to justify thus far the mea ore of the
Government. He gave credit to the sincerity of the mo-
tives which induced Hon. Members on that side to vote on
that measure. He acknowledged and he gave them credit for
their uniform advocacy of the Catholic claims ; stmt he was
most anxious that this measure should receive their. sanction.
The motion of which his Hon. Friend the Member for the
University of Cambridge had given notice seemed ;:.itended to
solicit the votes of all who could by possibility ue opposed to
the Government measure.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear," and
cheers.) And, looking at the ru"'l'ion which his Hon.
Friend had put t•ti record, 'oe found that its oh-
ject was not to tus'Ore an annual vote, but
that the sum required f_"•or this grant should not be paid out of
the Consolidated L.' oni.—(Hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend
might have `;',,jetted to the increase of the vote, but, instead
of that , ;iis lion. Friend had given notice of a motion which
I nuld compel Hon. Members—he should say which would al-
most compel Hon. Members—to vote with him.—(Cheers. )
The motion was to this effect, that the fund for Maynooth
should not be taken out of the Consolidated Fund. It was not
th it the vote should be an annual one. [The notice of the
Honourable Member for the University of _Cambridge
upon the paper was here handed the Right Honour-
able Baronet.] He found that the motion was thus :
that the several sums proposed to be payable shall not be
charged upon or payable by the Commissioners of her Majes-
ty's Treasury out of the Consolidated Fund. It was not, as he
had already stated, that the vote should be an annual one; but
that it should not be paid out of the Consolidated Fund. If he
could succeed by a combination of parties of extremely opposite
views in defeating this measure. Now, he hoped that those
who would assist the Hon. Member in thus defeating it, would
do so upon principle. Ile would have thought it perfectly con-
sistent, if his Hon. Friend had objected to any increase of the
vote, if he had proposed a motion in opposition to that increase
of the vote, and taken the sense of the House upon it..
But was it fair that he should place such a
motion as this upon the paper, and he trusted that those Hon.
Members who agreed with the principle of the Government
measure, but who were opposed to the mode in which Govern-
meet proposed to raise this fund—he trusted that they would
think it better, considering the state of public feeling in
Ireland, to ensure the passing of the measure, rather than its
defeat. He did not believe that any permanent pod to any
party would arise from a combination of men of such opposite
principles, and he hoped, therefore, that, even if the majlrity
of that House did not entirely approve of this
measure, yet, that, in consideration of the circum-
stances under which it was brought forward, they
would prefer the passing of the measure to its failure,. and that
they would support her Majesty's Government in this case, and
afterwards if indeed they felt iuclituel to censure the condne:
of the Ministry, then they might with some appearance of con-
sistency oppose them. The Government were perfectly pre-
pared to abide by the measure. He had thought it better to
encounter the storm of public opinion, than shrink from the
performance of a public duty. The Right Hon. Baronet sat
down amidst great cheering, the expression of which it was very
difficult to define, but amidst the storm of cheers and counter
cheers, it seemed that the Liberal party predominated.
Lord J. RUSSELL (who was for a considerable time inter-
rupted by the efforts of Mr. Colquhoun to be heard, amidst
loud cries of " Order") said that he did not wish for
one moment to detain the House for this night
or to lead to an adjournment.—( Hear.) But he had already
stated that he would support the motion of the [lon. Member
for Sheffield ; and he thought it right, before the discussion of
this night closed, to state his reasons.—(Cheers. ) And he
thought, at the same time, that it was his duty to say that,
when the motion of the Honourable and Learned Member
for Cambridge was bro.'ght forward,he would give it his de-
cided negative.—(Cheers.) He would go further, and say.
that if the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Shit-
field was not acceded to, he would glee the utmost support:
! in his power to any motion which would have the effect tot.
carrying out the same principle.—( Cheers.) He had no
wish to obstruct her Majesty's Ministers in the measure
which they had proposed • but he believed, if they
had not been supported by those who agreed with him, they
would not have held the position which they no* held.—
( Cheers.) He agreed with his Right Hon. kriend, the Se-
cretary of State, that when they had been so long in the
wrong, they might ultimately be right. He did not agree
with those who said that if this grant were acceded, the
Roman Catholics should have no further claim. He
did not agree with those who said that the claims
of the Roman Catholics of Ireland could terminate in any
grant.—(Cheers.) He did not believe that grants were their
only object ; he could not be persuaded that grants would be
their only satisfaction. He begged to express his dissatisfac-
tion with the statement. (The Noble Lord was here in-
h tm tenor
to
say o
the
n t i
Iterrupted. by loud cries of " Order, order," " Bar, bar.")
people Noble
they
Lord's
When
wecould
again
observations, we e understood
offered an adequate establishment for the
of, u
I eland
of the funds already existing no satisfaction to lreland eft,:
n to those opposed tes
the present Establishment could be expected.—( Hear, hear. )
He did not attach any great importance
and he did not wish now to
go into any argument
upon the adequacy c. f
that grant—(Hear, hear)—nor
was it from any disagreement with the sentiments of his Right
lion. Friend opposite that he thought it his duty to contrast.
former statements with present acts. lie thought it to be hies
duty to contrast the conduct of the present Government frost
the year 1836 to the year 1843 with that which they were al
present pursuing, and he came to the conclusion that either
there was the greatest blindness or want of foresight on their
part from IS3ti to 1843, and in that case he could have no
opinion of their candour, and must suppose them to be a
Ministry more i g want'.nn capacity, than tiny Ministry that bads
ruled this country fur some time; or, if they were wise, be
mu t deny that they had acted with any sincerity.—(Cheers. 0
fie would not further enter into their present and past conducts
hut he would state that h..: would vote in favour of the motion
of his lien. Friend the Member for Sheffield, and after that
he would give his most steady and cordial support to the
Bill._( Cheers. )
Mr. COLQUHOUN then moved the adjournment of the,
debate.
Mr. MITCHELL said that they had already had six nights'
det-,:te on this subject, and the result of this adjournment woald
be that, at the end of the session, most important business would
be left untouched. He wished to take the sense 01 the How
upon a division.
Colonel WOOD coneutred with the Honourable Cewtko
man who had just sat down.
Mr. WAR said that, in consequence of the general suppo-
sition that the debate on this motion would occupy stone
nights, every standing order for to-morrow had been further
postponed. .
The debate was then adjourned, and after the other orders.
of the day were gone through, the House adjourned at One,
o'clock.

GRAY'S INN, ArarL Manigy, F3+,
was thii day called to the degree of Barrister-at-Law,
by the Honourable Society of Gray's Inn.