The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-16 00:00:00

E.BRUA,RYI 6, 84.

Right Hon. Gentleman's own agent, and that the Right Hon.
Gentleman relied upon those calculations.
Lord STANLEY—Oh, no, no !
Mr. 'WARD had given the figures as they were in Mr.
Meek's report, and he believed they were correct, they
showed clearly that no quantity of foreign wheat, to any consi-
derable amount, could be introduced into the English markets
if a high duty was imposed. The fact was, that the moment
the corn in the home markets arrived at a certain price, the
i S. duty of last year wduld just have done what the Right Hon.
Baronet now professed to do.—( Hear, hear.) A duty of 10s.
would bring the price of foreign wheat up to 55.5. a quarter;
but, instead of that, the duty upon wheat, whenever tke ave-
rage price was 545. a quarter (the present price which it was
proposed to maintain), was 18s. ; when it was 60s. a quarter,
then the duty was 12s. ; so that it must get beyond 515., be-
for the miserable advantage of Is. could be had upon thequar-
ter. The Right Hoe,. Gntleman denied that he (Mr. Ward)
had quoted Mr. Meek's figures correctly.—(Hear, hear, from
Sir R. Peel). He believed the average price of '4os. a quar-
ter in the foreign markets, which was stated by -Mr.
Me( k, was only when there was stagnation in the
markets ; the first indication of a bad season or a bad market'
in this country always had the effect of raising the aserage
prices of the foreign markets.—(Hear, hear.) After the eight
shilling point was attained, there was in his (Mr. Ward's) opi-
nion an improvement in the proposed scheme.—( Cheers from
the Ministerial benches.) He freely admitted that he li4ed
that part of the scheme, and he was bound to say he liked it
much better than the proposition of his Noble .friend (Lord
John Russell) last year—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial
benches, and counter cheers);—because the Noble Lord allowed
himself to be foiled by the plans so ably • and so judiciously
laid for him by the Rig-ht Hon. Gentleman opposite.—( Laugh-
ter and cheers.) The Noble Lord placed himself in
difficulties, out of which he should now get as well as lie
could. He placed himself in a position with respect to that
question, in which he (Mr. Ward) begged to state he would
not stand with the Noble Lord.( Loud cheers and counter-
cheers.) At the same time he agreed entirely with the Noble
Lord upon the general principles which he developed in the
proposition, which he had last year brought forward. In all
those prineiples he ( Mr. Ward) begged to state he most cor-
dially concurred—( Cheers from the opposition)—but he con-
ceived that the Right Hon. Baronet's scheme was a bad scheme,
and founded uponbad principles. All sliding scales produced the
same unfavourable results. He thought that if the fixed duty was
not made too high there could be a regulation upon which,
corn could be had always at a fair price and never rise too
high. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, that at all events his
scheme would maintain the price of corn at a certain price.
New, he (Mr. Wood) had taken an extract of the duties for
four years, and found that a variable duty was paid. I Is. a
quarter duty was paid on corn in 1833 ; 19s. in 1834 on
263,000 quarters ; 14s. in 1636 on 932,000 quarters ; and 28s.
in 1837 for 210,000 quarters. Why was that? Because corn
had then become such a drug in all the continental markets,
that they could afford to pay any amount of duty, if
they could only dispose of it—(Hear, hear)—but it was his
opinion, that if this country had a regular supply of corn, it
would never have to pay such a sum as would warrant an over-
supply of foreign corn. He would ask the House to consider
what the effects of the present system were, and what their
effects had been upon this country? They all knew the dig..
tress that existed ; he considered it impossible totreat that sub-
ject so lightly as the lion. Member for knaresborougb haddone.
—( Hear.) It was admitted upon all sides, that the country
was placed in the greatest misery and distress. The Honour-
able Member for Leeds, who had seconded the address to her
Majesty, had candidly admitted it, and made the most feeling
confession of the fact. That Hon. Gentleman stated that
he had received accounts of the existing state of distress froaa
all parts of the country, and that he firmly believed there was
no exaggeration in those accounts ; besides, there were many
Members in that House ready to testify them, if necessary—
( Hear, hear)—Honourable Members from all parts of the
country, and connected with almost every branch of trade,
and every large manufacturing depot in the country. They
were all aware of the distress prevailing in Leeds, in Glasgow,
Paisley, Bolton, Nottingham, and several other places ; from
all j branches of industry the same stories of distress had
come.—( Hear, hear.) As to Sheffield, the people we c
better off there than in many other places. That was
owing to local circumstances, and even there the privations of
the people were so great that it was impossible for them to
contend against the incubus which had been cast apon them by
the present Corn-laws.--( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman
then entered into a detail of the privations to which the in-
habitants of Sheffield were subjected, and stated that these
privations were entirely attributable to the operation of the
laws with respect to the importation of foreign corn. A an
instance of the deteriorated and impoverished condition of the
people of Sheffield, Mr. Ward stated that there were at pre.:
sent .no less than 31,000 houses uninhabited in that towni
whereas in 1837 there was not a single house vae.ant there. That
was a proof of the exemplary patience !.as the Right
Hon. Gentleman called it) with which the people had endured
the distress they were suffering under ; the only thing that
placed the people of Sheffield at all in a better position than
their neighbours was, that under the late law there had been
a gradual coming in of American corn into the country, but if
the Right Hon. Gentleman's scheme were adopted, it would
totally prohibit the introduction of American corn—( Hear,
hear)—and upon that ground in itself, if there was no. other,
he (Mr. Ward) . was determined to give it every possible oppo-
sition. His constituents at Sheffield had derived sonic advan-
tage from their trade with America, and from the introduction
of corn even in a limited degree ; but against that
trade the present Government appeared determined to close
the doors of this country by imposing a high and prohibitory
duty.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) The importation of
American corn into Sheffield had formed the basis of trade
there within the last three years, but the measures proposed by
the Government must have the effect of putting a stop to it,
although he would beg leave to ask the night Ho-
nourable Gentleman why he recommended a sliding scale
to be adopted in this country, and why .he wished for 'a
fixed '
duty in Canada. Why should there not be a sliding scale in
Canada as well as in England?—(Cheers.) The whole arose
from a mean jealousy on the part of the landed proprietors.—
(Loud cheers.) He hoped the present measure would not be
persevered with. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Vice-Pre-
sident of the Board of Trade, said that the reduction of Ame-
rican produce would be in proportion with the introduction of
foreign wheat. On the contrary, there was a want of em-
ployment in the country, arising from the prohibitory duties
on foreign corn. It was stated that joint-stock banks and an
over supply of machinery had a great deal to do with the dis-
tress which existed in the country. He believed that the •
power of production was the groat cause of it. The ROIL
Gentleman then went into a detail of the diminution of the
home consumption of cotton, and showed that it was clear
over-production was not the cause of distress ; it
was the want of the power of the population
to consume. The Right Hon. Gentleman had but one choice,
he should give industry fair play; he should release it from all
its shackles, but the scheme he proposed could nut assist bins
in doing, that. If the Right Hon. Gentleman could be shown
that his proposition was only a modification of the old measure,
of which he (Mr. Ward) believed it to be a most servile copy—
( Laughter and cheers)—how was it possible he could persevere
with it ?—(Loud cheers.) A better speech against the proposed
measure, he (Mr. Ward) never read than that of the ltight
Hon. Baronet in introducing it to the house—(Hear, hear,
hear, and laughter)—he spoke to the last moment with_.l
a manifest consciousness that he could not meet even the
expectatiobs of the Hon. Gentlemen on his own side of the
House.—(Hear, and 1 aughter.) If the Right Hon. Gentle-
man thought his own opinion was better than that of every
lion. Gentleman who had spoken to the question, lie deserved
credit, at all events, for a good deal of self-opirnen.—(Laugh-
ter. ) But he (Mr. Ward) believed, if a good and an effec-
tual remedy was sot applied to the existing distress, it
would excite the deepest and the bitterest disappointment.
Did they think that those flimsy coverings which they threw
over their proceedings in this House were not seen through
'by the public? They were.—(Loud cheers, and counter-
cheers.) He repeated it, they were seen through ; and who ii
the people of this country saw that not one man would vote in
favour of this tax who had not a personal interest in carrying
it, it explained tall that had taken place lately—it explained
the dissolution—and it was enough to demoralise the country.
—( Cheers, and laughter.) He looked on the measure pro-
posed by the Right Hon. Baronet as one which would disap-
point every reasonable man in this country. It could riot give
the slightest relief , yet he had no doubt the Right lion.
Baronet would carry it.—(" llear, hear," from the Toriss.)
But he knew there was a power beyond this House which had
actuated the framing of this scale ; he believed the Right
Hon. Baronet would have made a better scale if they. would
have let him, but' he had sacrificed his own convictions
for the purpose of keeping the party together which he had
the misfortune to lead. He believed that he (the Right
Hon. Baronet) had many reluctant followers, and that he
was forced to assume a semblage of union which did not really
exist.--(Hear ) He prevented them from splitting, but lie
had better have done so by stating his own conviction, instead
of bringing forward such a measure as this, which had caused
him (Mr. Ward) to give his support to the motion of the
Noble Lord, for if they came to choose between a motion
like this and a total repeal, he thought there could be no doubt
as to which deserved their support • and he (Mr. Ward) should
rote for the motion of his Noble Friend the Member for
London.—(Hear.)
Sir E. KNATCHBULL then rose, but he spoke in ss low
a tone of voice, and also turned his back to the reporters,
that we were rot able to catch the whole of his remuks. He
trusted the House would bear with him for a short time, and
he would premise that he should not detain them longer than
was necessary. Gentlemen opposite had accused them of not
having abided by their former opinions ; he would not stop to
inquire whether they were right er not, but he
would say, that if Gentlemen on his side of the House
had receded from those extreme opinions which had been
ascribed to them, those on the other side had been guilty of
the same thing. Did the Hon. Member for Bolton remember
that he had stated last evening that the people paid 50,000,000.
of what he called a tax upon bread.—(lfear.) This night he
had reduced it t05,000,000/.—( flear;hear)—and if all the other
statements of the Hon. Member were to be reduced in the-.
same degree, they would find that the people of this country,
instead of being injured by the proposed law, would be greatly
benefited by it.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman op
posits hid alluded in strong terms to the speech made by the
Hon. Member for Knaresborongh ; he had no doubt the Hon.
Memlier would defend that speech and the statements con-
tained in it, nor would he meddle with that speech in order
to defend it ; but he must beg leave to say that the Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite, in accusing the lion. Mehaber for Knaresbo-
rough in the terms which he had employed, had done more
than one Member of that House was justified in doing towards
another—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—and he (Sir E.
Knatchbull) hoped the lion. Gentleman opposite would be more
cautious in his future strictures on the speeches which might
proceed fora his side of the House.—(Cheers.) lie would
now revert to the absolute question before the House. They
had,entered at some length into the question of the scale. lie
thought this should have been deferred till they met in Com-
mittee, because he knew they should have to discuss it over
and over again ; but in reference to the proposition made by
the Noble Lord, whether a sliding scale or any other plan de-
served his preference, he had said few words on the subject,
and an Hon. Gentleman had observed that the Noble Lord
had never mentioned the Bs. duty. He had ingeniously given
that the go by. But what was the Object of the Noble Lord's
speech ? lie either intended to propose the Bs. duty, and to
make that the law, or else to have no duty whatever ; but he
had left them in great difficulty to know what was his opinion.
But if the Noble Lord expected that the landed interest
of this country would place any reliance or con-
fidence in him, he would be very greatly mistaken.--
(Hear.) The plan proposed by the Noble Lord could not
be tried with the consent of the interest he (Sir E. Knatch-
bull) represented. lie had marvelled greatly what the Noble
Lord would say when he came to the its. duty, and when he
had got there lie had said, what was very evident was the only
thing he could say, namely, that they could not retain that
duty. He (Sir E. Knatchbull) would now quote from a very
high authority on the subject. Mr. M'Culloch had said that
a simple fixed duty on corn would be better than anything
they could propose, if it were possible it could be retained.—
(Cheers and loud counter-cheers.) But when it was the fact
that when corn reached a certain point the duty must be re-
moved, they had an entire answer to the whole question.—
(Hear, hear.) In e series of twenty years that occurrence
might not take place; but who knew when it might occur? It
might lie in the first or second year, and ho would warn the
Gentlemen who represented the landed interest, that when the
time came for the removal of the duty, they might depend upon
it, it would not be easy again to renew it. Ile must say that
the landed interest had freely received the proposal made by
the Right Hon. Baronet, and he (Sir E. Knatelibull) should
never have agreed to it unless it gave to the agriculturists such
ample security for their property as might enable them to