The Sun.
London, England, 1820-05-10 00:00:00

CIVIL LIT-TI-1E QUEEN.

Lord A. HAMILTON. 85 well as could be Col-
lected from the tow tent in Which he spoke, asked
if q provision for the Queen w.ts to be included in
the tettlemeot of the Civil List.
The.CnaNcet;Loa of the EX6igaCIER answered,
that that provition and provisions for others of the
Royal Family would he distinctly brortglit hefnre
Pat liameut, but not as forming parts of the Civil
List.

—..... ,
"CATO-STREET CONSPIRACY.
-Mr. Alderman W 0.17, assUied the House that
he had no object in rising to address them, but to
submit a motion tvhicit required their interference.
Previous to this, he had done all that tic could to
induce the S,cretary of State to punish the indi-
vidual whose conduct bestow brought before them.
He had laid before the Noble Lord the documents
and-evidence on the case, anti bat further stated
much more to him which he had ascertairted. For
this put pose, he bad looked over. a :mother of de-
positions, and examined not fewer than 30' per
M-
SO. The.whole of these papers he AVOidti react
it his proposal for a Secret Committee were not
assented to.--(Laughter:) —He had fp, desire to
do so, if Minister would agree to his mo:ion ; if
they did not, he must read a great many. lint
first it would he necessary to say what his motion
was. Its object was generally to ascertain Ed-
wards's proceedings and those of big assoeiates,
for the fast two years, and particularly as con.
necred wit is the late Cato-street Conspiracy. -}f
he could show that Edwards had been t be.sole in-
stigator of the plot, that he had purchased the
swords, tin cases, and made himself most of the
implements of destruction; he thought it would
be impossible for the Houie to refuse the Com-
mittee. He could bring forward the evidence of
persons who had received good chapictets from
their employers, and whovated.that Edwards had
done every-hbiog in his power' to seduce them;
that be had taken them to various places to make
'poichases, and had even sent arms iato their
houses. He had traced the conduct of Rd..
wards for the last five years. He was then
liVing at Windsor, in the -capacity of a matte-
. tier, sometimes in- prosperity and at others'
in great distress. He had. been seen walk-
ing the streets wit-bunt shoes . and stockings
and selling. busts, when of a sudden be became
-rich, and acconnted for it by saying that a German
Count had left him money, dud that Lord Castle-
reagliihad 'assisted him iurecovering it.. He had
since been convicted of being connected with a
Police officer,: who assisted Castles during the war
in inducing! French officers to break their parole
and effect their .escape, in order to betray them
and obtain the reward offered-for their apprehen-
eioft. Upon all .these paints, he (Mr. Alderman
Wood) had procured the fullest information, and
sought out individuals, as in a former ease, in
which he had saved the lives of three men who
stood ha nearly tire same situation, though with a
different degree of criminality. Be had ascer-
tained that Edwards' had invited, the conspirators
to Cato-street, and told them, if they were dis•
turhed by the military, to meet hint at Lord liar-
rowhy's. • it was he who had placed Thistlewbod
--al Harris's. He had taken those lodgings liiM-
self, bin how had he acted towards his victim l'--
He had not betrayed hint immediately : No ;,•his
avarice hail induced him to wait till the 10001.
reward had been offered its the Gazette. After
escaping from Cato-street, the Conspirators were
going °a' together, it was he who withdrew This-
tlewood front them, and in order that he might lay
t,is hand upon hint when he thought proper, lodged
Iti!ti at Hat ris's, told him that be would call on
his wife, and went the next morning to- tell the
' people of the house to• keep hint till the evening,
as, he would take cares that Iris friends should
!ben assist in liii escape. Previous to this, lie had
take'. lodgings near Ilitekinghatrt-gate under the
name of Ward, and had given a reference .to the
porter of Buckingham House. The yoriby Al-
` detroatt the, Feitt the opinion • delivered by the'
1 Linril Ativuciim toc Scutliiimi alpha' spies. in a case

White a base in outer Ilan been teti t
to death for the.. atrocity of his secinctions. lie
(Mr. Alderman INrodd) did_ riot wish to pirsh the
matter against Edwards.so far, for he thought that
murder alone should be punished with death. lie
shiruld now proceed to read the depositions of
some of the witnesses, which he intended.to bring
tot4ard irfease his tkotiOn should
Pickhard, a weaver, stated that Edwaids had
made various propositions to him—had assured
him that a number of persons, six being sufficient,
would easily gain admissian -_to the gallery of the
House of Comuions, provided with machines of
•
destruction in the shape of •books, containing gun
barrels cot down, to be thrnwit• and fired in the
Rouse' tit a time when the Members wei-e- en-
gaged in debate. Batt his efforts had been-una-
vailing, and Pickhard had refuSed to listen CO hii.
propositions--
Mr. GRENPELL thOtteht thilt• it would'be' more.
satisfactory for • the House- if it was' made- ac--
quaioted with the authority on which this state-
ment resfed.
Mr. 14 F. teas' suriiiised b sncan inter-
ruption.'.
Mr. ,WY NNE said, that nothiai criuld rent) as
a • .
n„ g ,
Il
separate paper in the noose wit unt its per- •
mission; though it might be dune it it totaled
part of the .perch of an lion..Mealher.
Alderman Wool; reimnied. He stated that
the paper which i,e read inns si,-;ned by the indi.
vi.t,,als who had made delnsitions, tit ttllkb
they were ready to swear.7--(llear, hearl),-4he
rest were copies .ot those depositions, sonic of
which had been savor'' to, and.to all of which
,
tile parties were ready to swear. Wi)iiaa)
bridge said, that lie had been invited by Edwards
hi assist is, the murder of his Niajes' y's Ministers,
when the latter had used that borritileexpreSiodi
" the bloody It-kb-butcher mast he dote away.
with." He had known Eiliv"arda for lour or five
y..ars, and, had met him in. Holborn previous to
the last Smithfield meeting. Edwards aske`il him
to go there; saying that there would be bloody
he had
.tettisid, declaring that Lie felt no
dispoiition for such wolk. He had met FAWards
ag;ain alter the meeting, and had asked bias what
had been done there, . when Edwards replied that
they bad all been disappointed as the matter had
turned out. Another man staled I hat Edwards
was 'always eating to his house and proposing
various plans; saying that the best way for get.-
tiog of his Mijesty's'Minis'ers was to ettipl'ov
combustibles, «hick were ready to carry into ex-
ecution any measure teedinmended , by tie Colo
millet.. On another individual liti-w ardi' had tall
ed at six o'clock in the mot ping, telling.tinn that.
Manchester was on fire, that the•thd'Balley had
been forced, that Mr. Hunt had made his escape,
• ,
and that the time had come for Itlet l'OpOnS ita.,
But he had b,en too wise to hillow•this.
Another person stated, that Ell-wards was the habit of
valliog at his sh.,p, and asking whether all • itien were
Reformers. That having seen two swords-hanging '.filere, lie
had said that they would suit their ptirpose, and had 'asked
for them. That they had been given tsi hint, And that in a
few days he had called ;loin-, saying that he knew there !Nave.
mine, anti that they were of very cheap workmanship. The
witness then ackilowledged that a buridle of 2,v:swords bad
been sent to his house, which he had put iinoitie;eeitcit', with
the exception of two, and Edwards cart tea otlseveral ot them
under his- coat. Edwards had sent to him from Cato-slreet
to come and see what he was doing. Ile had.riJused at thst,
but haring aftertvardtt,,;iven way to iwpoittinity, had gum:
and found Edwards in is flannel jacket,! Manufacturing' coin.-
hustibles and gre; adeS: -Having been its the Navr,.rie-as
alarmed at seeing •sts moth powder near the Ste,' mid was
about to retire when two Irishmen Cilttle iii, 114 said Vol
should stay there no longer, as there 'was a spy in'Compahy.
He did • not know to whom they meant to ailtrde, but tie re-!,
tired as soon as they had gone away. An individual of the
•name Chambers. gave similar evid4nce with te:Pecl. to
the two Irishmen.. He (Mr! Alderman Wood) 'ought tO in
form the House that Ise had nut been de,i,red by tusylsf the
individuals whose t!epositions lee had received, to keep back"
their names, fur they were all equally ready to collie forward.
Another man stated that he knew boils Edwards and his tiro-
thee; that on the ?:tile of February, EdWillfl4 had dragged him
out of his house, and after locking tam up our 90.111 V tine, 4iad
taken him to!Catii-street, hut 011 seeing the stable he rat.
swat'. It was declared by another, that EdWards bad abso-
lutely stood with immense stick at the door of the stahles,
andliad sworn to knock filth clown if he attempted to escape.
Others said they had heard hint declare, that that was the
tune of all, others -whom his Majesty's Ministers ought to
he disposed of, and that all was ready for 'that purpose.
According, to another, Thistlewood and! Edwards had called
together on a Gentleinatt, tie whose friend Thisrlewitod
.ltatt
sold ate estate for 7,0001. Edwards began to explitio his
plans, but they had inet'with no enconiagement, and had
therefore retired. There was,
.alio 'a eery long aud'iii;
teresting paper expla.ining,, the whole of thiA'rnan's infernal,
conduct, from the et,tyinveucelment till the conspirators bad'
heels taken. One witness said that Edwards had been Pa-
tronized by Cot. Taylor, at Windsor. Allot her,who. was in the
waggoti at the last .Smithfield meeting, stated that. Edwards
had supplied him abundantly with gin, at the smite time telling
him that he must not Mince the matter, but must speak nut in
such a manner as to be understood, as they were well prepared
with fire halls, He woullinut fatigue the House with- further
details, but it appeared to hint Ilia shill' a traitor haul never
existed its the country before, In the whole evidence which.
he had collected, it was an extraordinary fact, that there ivai
not one single instance 'in which one person had seduced a»6-:
ther. Edwards always appeared to have [menthe sole sedintes..
fie had asked the witnesses if they had been addressed about
the
.plot by any other person previously to their introduction
to Edwards, and their answer had been uniformly that They
had not. He would probably be told that those persons
had been guilty-of misprision e' treason. 'This "night'
he the ease. But, if they had' not immediately coatroom-
cated the conspiracy revealed to them, did that lessen
the guilt uS Edwards Cettititily not. He could' prove
from respectable authority, that oney had passed throuh,
the hands of. a Police officer auto those of Edwards, and
that the latter stood at a short distance from the house,
when Thistlewood was taken. He had taken lodgings under
the name of Ward, hitt bad afterwards admitted 'that his
natre was Edwards, and that he had assumed the former its
consequence of being a spy of Goverament.—illear, hear,
hear! from the Ministerial side.)—Hle bad received this in-
formation from a credttable source;, far it came trout'
the fientleman who kept the seltoolof St. George's, Hatio-
versquare, and wliu had formerly heels cue of lite fir,t Iller-
chantS of the town of Ipswich. It appealed that. Eavards
had admitted that to. be Ins name alt his cU4e Mr.
Sheriff: Parkins or any other, person should have :called upon,
hits. The person in whose house he lived han'then exclaimed,
Good God, have I had a spy its tray house!' I shall be riiiueii
if it he known!' To. which Edwards hadad replied, that he was
7 sorry to. have taken hits in. The! Wui thy Alderman., after a
few it her observations, concluded by moving that a:Secret
Committee be appointed to examine the tatiminal
,conduct and
pructedings of Geofge, Edwards and associates, duriugt he
! last five years, and cspecia!ly his couriexion wit hi the parties
!' tot-tarsi; the plot lately discovered in Cato-street.

itnit.Eic WiLsoa supported the matio;i, and
holm-4(lldt 1.3.4 Mmlre6ty's, met ob-
ject 0. the plinciple .tile Committee, as it ,vould
serve to vindicatetbeir conduct- t4orn report
Wltiti had lately been its circulation. He "as In
Frame when the Cato-street eouspiracy had beet,
but at his return. h.rd Dryer lirdid, Any
one tleaking about the Late ilia.) lament-,
fiat Edwards. should, not haSe been, put
• the Yvem..sses' box. This was. the mute vxlrior-

(Hilary. as one of the Sheriffs of Londo44 bath called

'"1)-"" Pe.Secretalv of:- Sr.l4.t 541riet iime shier it,
.eXplanscel'trViiiciretiinStances respecting EdlwariiS,
;awl to Auvresa ou bib Lottletip the taceettlity UI

etsruintiq.; Lim on the late it ial. iie did not theed
to say that spies might not occasionally he eine
ployed, but he Was satisfied that an orgenised sysa
tem of spies wohld bets great trelional evil. Whets.
he admitted that spies might be occesirmelly ema
ployed, he meant under certain reetrioiens. Care
should be taken, that insteatllot observers they
should not become agents antk leaders. NoOsoney•
should be entrusted ro their bands to enable theta
to seduce, to arm, and to contrive plots, %%hide
otherwise would have had no existence. • In timed
like the present, it men'-like CaSAi's, (diver, and
Edwarde, were supplied avid) money, and allowed.
to set up their manufactures in the vieinieY of
our manufacturing towns, they might nut only
sedoce iudividuali, but bring whole [ironies to the
scaffold. He did not pretend to assert that Ed.
wards was altogether the plantser of the whole ea•
terprise, for there was Thistlewood's 0%411 eviar
hence, that be• had determined to sacrifice
Majesty's Ministers;as a r, quiet') to the men wind
had perished at 'Manchester. But Edwards had
seduced many others; who would not have other•.
wise joined: in the Conapiracy. He then alluded
to the cruel execution which had taken place ittt
France three years of several individuals wile)"
were thought to live fallen victims to the inssti.
gations of the.potice, and the hSrharity of who.se,
deaths produced a leis InipresNion of the want
of justice of the Government, than the refusal of
the letter .to allow the Perlice seducers to he exa-
niirred and rtkpislied. .nom rmained for Mini,
sttrs to show what connection they had
Edwards, end to explain why and wherefore they
hart hot pieced hint in the witnesses' box. '
Mr, BANK adoli!frd !hat there bed been case!'
which in!glif Induce' the House. to undertake-ire
quiritAi not justified by any precedents whatever.,
tint "i Ibe resent occasion, the t sv,. Hon.
berg who had opened the nue,tion had cienpleiely
mistaken the nature of the eons' itotionel power*
and pi ivileges of the House• Had it ever beenheerd that'i hat Assembly had been called epos 10
institute an inquiry inio the crimitrel conduct of
private individual ? Tire House possessed extene,
sive powers, but WheneVer it had trod no judicial
grounds, he did not think that it •had been able to--
do honour to itself, or to institute prteceedings -
beneficial to the country. It was proposed to riper
Point's Secret Coinniii tee to impriteiiito-the,cooe
doCt. of • a rive, e • individual, but what 'rower.
Would there be in such a Committee to licit pro- .
per evidence ? Was there Noe thing more unsetiass
factory than the evidence taken at the Ber Of the .
House, or by its Committees'? Other Ceort balk
the power of imposing the...most tolernit
,tion, of compelling witnesses to answer betore•
the Almighty tinder the seoction of at' uiith. But.
to the House the Constitution had wisely.retused
this power, thereby showing that it ought not. to
metklle with ttio,'e things,whicir might. only to be
triedunileC the: nbligetion of an oath: But hats .
the. law no •eneaos of- affording ivietedy 11 the
charges were true; why were- tbey not laotighc
before by`"..‘yhom 07. y could
perly be tried ? •What crosld prevent. rile witnesses'
:Ittnii.exhibiting thew ;'n Cotirts Of J.l.stice Tha
was Open. to.the rue,a who had 'tirade the de.
positions .rend -i.ut which Vie coo•+
steered as nothing'more than wriste piper, as they
had not been evvoin to, anti 11..eteky ,Velerniare
proposed a mode of in year ient inea tee subject-vv hi, It
would render to:Wiest tiseurvei-te
-the anceity a;rieattnity of Jan. oath. hat;
worthy Altiermau conceived it as'amishing rhic
all the depositions rthould He:fee its_ rFpretic tt ink
Ed -words ss t sole- seducer,.- sand-•tildt '1•1-;,1 titre
word was said abort esny body eke. NOW the
Aldeiiplio bad fi reit a 114;1; ni4ce, alit! it
surprising that hie acumen should "nett have sog,*
gested the idea of ticonapitary bin tug the (lees),
nents. '1 he wore so, .as ell the tuei were per-
fectly known to hairc been deeply itaplicaeed its the
riot, though not perhaps to a degree w rich vvuulc
have justified their b'eing brought to. trial.—(dear)
Was this a case inCii urgency, ingnii
was denied, inetent ruin twist ensue? Ai tbo tgts
the cbnthiters below wet e filled with goopowder,
and the House should run the risk of being eirtle."
tlealy blown up it it did not proceed to an innne.i.
diate examination I' Did the worthy Alderniaw
really believe that tile House was exposed to any
danger from the plot said to, have been stige,este4
Irby Edwards for the destruction of its Members
lie did not Mean to Say th,i't Edwards was an my
nocent man, but 'he thought that equel danger
might arise from others as well as atom
Meta, bear, bear I)—But the conspiracy Wati ROW
Shake!) in its foundation, and but little pi.ril're.e
ontined: It had been first considered that Ike ohs;
ject of the worthy Alderman- was to bring Ed-•
wards to justice e but this he had since disclaimed,
anti•hed said that he .would not wish even tire
miscreant 10 lieptit to death, as he thought that
capital punishment ought only to be inflicted-it!
cases of murder. IVlsat therefore did_ he notv:l,
want ? He wished Edwards to be sent out of the
coontry, which was. the very. object which at.
first he scented desirous, of 'pre -eutinge;, The,
gallant Member who had seconded the mom '
Lion, had also. taken an extraordinary view of the ,
subject. On lancing from another co6ntry,,wtls
the opioloos excited by some bet hAroits execnas
tioo which had taken piece there some years be. ;
fare,-he suited that he had *found senti-- • r
osenio.ernertained trete,, and that till were shocked).
.at Edwerds trot having beenestermined on the late :e
trio'!. iniend to 'noveltyr ingtrucijriot
to, the Secret Committee to invite why. Edward 9,
had not been put' !lit() .the witnesses' box*?
suideistood that he meant to. do so, and he wa
glatt that-was his .intention. first was .it.possible
that the House should lose' -its pristioog tinit itrr
coosiilerieg a motion SO grounded and CO seconds
ed.—(Hear, hear, (tear f),--e4lie. Gallant Mem.*
.
lat:r. had justly reprobitedtlieeetablishmette of a
.eentral syslerti ref. aare.itese and he Atould -admit ,
- Government. w.trteliks,tvoidil rest entirely tots
a system, avoeld be,tnefr4 to gov'ern.. ;But he '
would ask the Wort Irv. Aide:mato and hialion. Se'
coniirr, supposing 1.1)61.1i gang toot robbers was Obooll
r Io au ach tirerr ltezusea,. vrbett►rr they would tell tire'
Wormer,. " we won't believe you ; you are 01,
nt tatein,"get Out of vole sight;;" and whether
• , would stupidly 'take no precautions to provide''
gaiP eat' D.-77Tiie,yvP!
idry
, A Wei ntan was it-Magistrate, he ought "to-kno;
het the law of this country proceeded on the plats
lot encouraging accomplices taereveal. 'tiere s

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brit whom he ,1-.0,:los :;Art ventine to compare Avid:
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Hon, bin!, had elso incurred
b 4 blame of the b:AtLtne Ildving preserved an
liliDerial city (r.olVetinfligratinti. its, horiSes tramender,
ender, and- its iohabitanti frotn asSassinatibn.
e had ittl many thritb;s -hrought :Against biur,
P.‘llehati never heel) considered. guilty
-itieof pie a tact proved by the recoil
the;ristorian an the subject Let.,.:Ark
~lltut stridom . tconjurationis vehernenter sumo-
et ; .-cahterosdcl emir ;._berte polliceautnr, denitine
?tram ot ens Huai) inaXinte manitestos ba-
1/13t•“—(Hear, hear, 'rear !)
lil4.l,••Hoaftousa, in giving his,vote this night,
Uti~lit 1r Aecessiry, titter what hail tallen tri to
.„,te Hon. Member on the floor, to stave. why he
''to. to vote tor so extraordin, y, "so til),ocrd"
ttq
;11101.i.01, He telt that he bad treed of more than
4stkalinritil:4ence of the 1-1 ,)iise, considering
very peculiar circumstances uncle
h.".eh hi- addressed them ; to that indulgenve lie

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more than in the weight of argiitylent
he might offer, ilisdilfietd!), was increased
/I,iving TA) cnn►hnt the opi.lion of so ivvecirol,

‘1111'!le-t'c'vd, snit inteiligent Alember the
bt , who had declared that there %vas
1,4 pi eredeia in the nsages of the liaise
,lio•
4" motion. Now linless senses were so
PI or so per vetted to preyent bin) front
,'inolishing het wren right and wrong, he
rrveived manir preeents, ell of whieh were
liiteei point. As to the need of evidence on
site v Cases whet e the House. had

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en,v,itoinvil than of inflicting punish-
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i‘lachinscians ag • Mi ii tuts wcie

I:4lred in ibis, way. own why not machionnons
tl4"itt,:t the p, ()pie fie thooght there was good
tl't for goi g into the examination, because
thr onto! 'mime nlrrsraioling elsewhere,
ll; ,vernfnent, by its tit% agent, had lu-

the late plot. "there were oilier
dis-
'' which were eqiniliy lamentable. The
tt oie.ht he sat in the House he •heard seve-
tlli expressions tbnplyiog a necessity for what
et called reducing the
people ; particular
threes of violence were • proposed to be used
1711(!S tlieul, which proved a feeling to exist
tliase walls which, was not at all under-
j'9int „,,,svie. lie would not say that the. Govern-
t k‘ere giti;ty in einpinying Etkvatils, or that
icq %sere innocent ; was part of die matter
tlittl'ieStion. Let ( oppotinn;ty he given for
111:,111'n' it up, snit stir Wing that .Gtivertituentl
_had
ti' sanctioned his -eriniei ieply to the tyser-
t44is of the Hot,. Member's, "drawn from the
~lnejent world, be supposed the Hon. Member al-
-44.'11 to Cicero. Toe lion Nlettihe•l had forgot
ittli/tltte that Cici ro did no' make Ftilvia and the
ii"i°,llrt47,es conspirators.—(Cheers from the'Op-
ttil,'tic)ll.)—He did nut apply this remark to Go.
t4'4lle"ti. but he was replying to the inference
, t, Flonottrable Aletriber's argument on 81,-
4041;10g tu the ancient world, as if its wisest iii-
li"4lants espoused the spy system. Now many
hothem reprobated it. An intelligent
i4il honest historian, Soetonius, placer) than
ocirersaria rerun, and eautiOned Princes
ta4 st itstug them Hie Emperor used 10
hih'e the soles to he venipt And sent into divan'
n'
; Constantine frequently pin the it,:
Ar'llvrs to death ; and not only. •-iitiong tile good
%tttiithtrn the butt !'strip, tore 11.(1 the de estation
1. spits prevaiE st•tt'l (hit he had no
for i„torm„., ; disliked than. and
t Plinceps; qui delo:ores non castiot, arridet
t4sll,ocii For 111,, optoioto, of 111',1 a"cienr w"tid
vgbich the ifimoarahle Member had referred
I'lN for his authoti y, "soil to which he (Mr.
.`•lll'ltottse) only alluded before nn assembly so
itatortned on the stibiqet, ta shew that
11 l'lttevii.e was not entirely in favour of the
tt,,ltctrable member. hot as the ancient world
tt:,t unifo.in support to the employment
11ii1P'es, neither did the modern world.—
:e0;014111y part of Macl.javel ethic) seemedto
:1k .41.4'1'411LT the employment of such instruments,
,hiitthe assertion that Governments must employ
''s Welt As men. Montesquieu laid down i bat
, ,
4Y'4.a Monarchy spies ought not to be ern-
tl, i• ,
reause there was a COIIII.I feeling
1444, ." 'hem. Ti.e prejudice, suit) Mr. Hob-
rttioe' which generally prevailed against such
tts
ttr sufficiently .ponted out the infamy of
e,niPlovtiteot.—(He.r.)-1t appeared '0 him
ihi4 . 1"e don b' C nm (Mr. Bankes),
..ven e
g 1114 t spies were necessary to good go-
' `4t:6-:1)-_,Ir haul made one mistake, and that
u, he ought to hate substituted bad—
:t`'ver''l,l)--for he did not recollect any good
010 rtitteat •
•,yru in which they had received em-
Si% • ent
~tri, 7 Some would make a distinction be-
-I,,.teeiv: 11)Y and an instigator, but he could not
`414,1,b justness of tar cold() :here, lie
in„de.„ onhisn4 spy without an instigation ?—(Bear.)
mtp '"
1 "yeti i telli rence—his silbsistence
Oe f,
lietwor what ifmaion he brought, and
,e, he 11104011 n itor i was 'not the nature of
4/14e'rvtirust" rt.ich. agents should 'remain passive
t)tis• no the contrary, he thought that where
A • -pit
rAe ), did not exist before, they would
e, (40e. AF
ler a few more remarks he hoped
Ot) aci:e would consent to entertain the tures.
4141,, 1' this, show that they participated in the
4,4lrlll°ut the Commons of England —(Hear.)
1, fIcRtv,oRTH, who was scarcely audible
1:14 sei,„ "left, %vas nudes:stood to state, that he
ti" cnte of those men who had been seduced
e late Plot, nor by Edwards, but by his
14'14 ofiwir'e)(Aii.r, And chiefly because lie earl in the
ths,.reading seditious p.iblications.—(Heer,
,411 e, I." •)--Atter cl)ifession hail been
li,titatede, (Mr. Butt: worth wished to have it
Oetore a Magistrate,but the tnan bad
• 't' tere'fi
eo,„ ed by the party with which lie had
%„.liieti:.lretra, 1,, had begged nut to, he
4,4letf4r t public. lie (Mr. fiut•erwortli) had
.01. this evening oti account of the pre-
hiri if he knew arty
t'tp'iled that he knew
t 4,5 him b
,ns
, lat since the late execion ,
concerned in tile plot had told
cohymnis I • •
'",l Ihet.ih. • • ut(l )ects piesetit at ore of their
b..t tievrr since —Olen; !)-I.le
Ihi„ocu, t 1 1,
'o'), whether he thought that the
.
(its
it'l*vicr Lad bccu, " by, Sir, du

you suppose they were ehildre.. They cv:_remen
of good understanding, and wanted no °rye to
excite them, for they were desperate in the busi-
ness."—(Hear, heat !) Eie (nr. Butter-
worth) was real:y.shoekid to see a t»otion of the
kind of the ptesvnt brou;:lit forward.--(Near,
hear'.)---It of a piece wins the q t'estions pin
to Thistlewood at the moment of Ins execution,
questions utterly devoid of coalition feeling.--
(Hear, hear !)--I-le believed that the speeches on
this occasion would do great Mischief; similar
ones had powerfully -contributed to produce the
late disinrbinces, and he should not himself have
spoken but in Conti-Min justice to the Government
Of the country.--llear, hear!)

. _
Mt. iitimit defended hi,; Honourable Friend, the
worthy Alderman-, troth the blame cast upon him
havin4 endeavolfred ascertain the truth, tit
the moment when an unfortunate wan ‘vas pre-
paring to appear before his Creator, by questions
which could not wound ,his feelings. lie consi-
dered that the solit:ol instance andticed by the
last honourable iViember, of a man who -knew
nothing of Eoiwards,:was t),, answer it, the, thirty
augntn:nts dud thirty depositions which had been
produced.
. . _

WyNs did not remember during the many
yr...1.s that h.- 11..0l been a Meifiber ot that House,
3 nritmti brought forward on such extraordinary
grounds as the present, unless it was the attempt
tirade with a• similar intent on a former
i!e contended• that no Secret Committees had ever
been granted,- but to lay the basis of a legislative
enacttnent, which was not even thought of on this
OCcdSlott.• Noce of the men whose depositions
had been- mentioned appeared to have done that
which was- the ditty of loyal subjects. They .had
given no information of the plot unboso;oed to
them with:mt reserve.—(Bear, hear !) This
tniOt not, perhaps, lessen the guilt of Edwards,
but it cert,.inly dimiNished their own credibility.
—(fleat).—None Could
,deny that there had been
a conspiracy, and it was quite natural that those
who were implicated in the plot should be atittious
to revenge the late of their comrades by giving
evidence against Edwards. It was matter of
regret that it should be necessary to employ spies,
but was it to be maintained that Mieisters ought
to refuse to attend to what was deposed by
such persons ? From his soul he believed that
there had been a plot,,;iind that but for the infor-
mation derived from the sources which had been
so touch objected to, he believed that that plot
would have been executed. liut it was said that
spies ought to listen to 'that was passing, but not
to encourage the conspirators to proceed in
their evil designs They ought to consider what
sort ot men 'spies were. 1-le believed. the're were
few instances of persons joining in such a con-
spiracy with the intention of betraying it from
she first. Having engaged in the plot their
courage tailed them, and to save themselves
they betrayed their fellows.- It was in this
way that spies and informers in such eases were
commonly obtained, and he thought it was one
of the greatest securities of the country that
they were so obtained, as the knowledge that
thhse %vitt, were most active in such plots were
commonly those who betrayed the other con-
spirators powerfully ()permed' 4an the minds of
many, and deterred them from engaging with those
ho entertained such designs. lie could not see
hat any purpose would be answered by acceding
to this motion. Edwards, when be made his dis-
closures, had of course been pronib.tirl sees:city.;
10 IiOW, that through his means the other con-
spirators had been prosecuted to conviction, were
hey to torn round upon him and punish hint
Ile could not see the shadow of on argumeut in
t.rsour of the motion, and should therefore most
cordially give his vote against it.

. -
Mr. DENMAN said, he feared that Hon: Gentle-
man, ill looking to the danger from which spies
rescued the Cuantry, forgot the greater danger of
!heir empl,,y,,,aw, sapping the foundations on
which the security, the enjoyment, and happiness
of the commuirity depended.—(Hear.)--,He could
conceive nothing of -so novel a nature in the mo-
tion. The worthy Alderman appeared to him to
act in a m.itther neither abhorrent to the princi-
ples of the Constitution nor the feelings of a man.
Similar motions for inviry had been made after
he executions at Derby in 1817, and Sir Samuel
Romilly had always beet io the minorities who
were favoArable to it. An inquiry was recommend-
ed before a Secret Committee into the general sys-
tem ; the otject of the motion was to disciiver, by
the examination, whether the proceedings against
these persons had been fairly and legally pursued,
There might be cases, he did not deny,:wnere
spies could be justly employed.—(Cheers from the,
Ministerial side.)—ln the Catilinarean conspi-
racy it undoubtedly was the duty at the Consul
to send out a spy.—(Loud cheering.)-13nt the
question Was not the same. The question het e
was, who supplied Edwards with money many
mouths before the time fixed for the execution of
the plot ? How it was that he beset Thistlewood
the moment be left Horsham gaol ? The question
was, whether here there was a manufacture of
crime by accomplices, who were afterwards to be
brought forward against their fellows in a Court of
Justice ?---(Hear, hear!)—He wasfar from mewl-
ing to accuse Ministers of countenonciog sucba
proceeding but he sail it was impossible, if once a
spy was employed, to draw a line beyond which lie
could not go; and the Minister who employed
such persons at all incurred a very great responsi-
bility. The questions pot to Thistlewood at the
place of.execution, were intimately connected with
the discovery of the truth, and might have led to
the discovery of a conspiracy of a more atrocious
kind titan that which had been detected. With
respect to the examination of 'Edwards in the
Court, it was very desirable that all persons of that-
description should be placed in the witnesses•box,
to undergo the most strict cross-examination by
the prisoner's Counsel. It might in this instance,
in a very great degree-, have evenuared their guilt.
If it appeared that the fair line was overstepped.
in the province of a spy, which he strongly
suspected, there could not be a`stronger case
for the. appiii.ation of a Secret Committee.—
The Honoutaide Gentleman then commented
with severity on the part acted by Oliver in the
year 1617. He could state from'the information
to the prisoner'; Counsel in the last case, that
Edwards appeared to have been a m!/5t active
instigator of use plans from beginning to end.

• . , „
owned that the Whole Of the spy system
appeared to him so detestable, that whenever
he thonght of it the words of Mr. Burke al-
ways r ectirred to his metnory—." Tie seeds of
desteoetioo are laid in civil intercourse and social
habitudes, men's tables and beds are surrouraled
with snares, arid all the means bestowed by Pro-
vidence to make life sweet and happy, are Per-
verted into sources of fear and foist.; y." It the
Government must take spies into employment, in
like manner mast the Directors of the Costalos
and Excise, and the Bauk. It was ;robable that
the systeru was carried to mach zoo great an ex-
tent, and he should most certainly gist: his humble
support to the motion.
. The ATI-ORNEY GENPRAL contended, that
throughow all the evidence offered on site trials,
there was not a tittle to support the opinion that
Edwards had beet; employed by the Government,
hot that, on the contrary, the natural inference
from the whole tenor of it was, that having been
engaged in it, and having coere forward to give
iotoionatioli neat the, time of execution, the Go-
vernment fiat! been enabled by his means to deteet
and crush one of the most taut conspiraeies that
irid ever disgraced this or any other cotintryea--
He asked the lion. Alderman would he have
thought it necessary to produce Edwards at the
trial, it he had known what was stated by a man of
the name of Moonmelit, that when Thistlewood
and he were grotig tsp hand-cuffed 'ogether to
Lord Sidmouth's office, Thistlewood had told
him to say before the Privy COuncil that it was
Edwards who had seduced him into the plot, and
that lie was at Cato-ttreet.—(Hear, hear 1)—
when Monument replied, how can I say that wio•ii
he was not there. The other answered, no mat-
ter, PI( describe his class, so that you may say
he was there, and giye a descriotion of the chitties
he wore.---(Cheeta from the Ministerial benches.)
hit further desired him to send that round among
the rest of the prisoners, that they might all say the
same—(Cheers.)—Edwards had never addressed a
single speech to the conspirators, and had never
proposed any plan. The Honourable and
Learned Gentleman then read an extract from
the speech made by Brunt when brought up to
receive sefitence, confirming, he said, in a Most
extraordinary manner, a statement made by
Adams, and unsupported by any other witness,
purporting that Brunt objected to a plan pro-
posed for making an attack on London the night
of the King's funeral, because it did not include
within its objects the assassination of the Mi-
nisters.—(Hear, hear, hear !).—After citing ano-
ther passage from the same speech, he asked,
could it after that be said that Brunt had been
instigated by Edwards ? 'Kidd, in his speech,
had called the Ministers a set of villains. Nose,
those individuals must be creduloos beyond any
thing who could conceive after this that these
•men required instigation to any erime. Again, it,
was imagined that Edwards had the means, and did
contribute money to further the plot. New it had
appeared that at a meeting at
.which Edwards at-
tended, it had been proposed to tteat the men who
were to assemble at Cato-street ; Thistlewood pro-
posed to subscribe 6.i. and Brunt offered to ontri-
bloc it worm! note; Edwards ,dfered nothing. But
was it possible to suppose that it he had been in the
possession of money for the purpose imputed, lie
would not have made an offer of it ?—(Hear )
He then condemned the .conduct of Alderman
Wood in putting the questioes to Thistlewood
But what evidence had lie obtained ? The first
question -was, 117 hen did you become acquainted
with Edwards ? Answer : Two days atter leaving.
Horsham gaol.—Where ? Answer : At Preston's.
—The worthy Alderman was at a loss -to know
whether Preston in Lancashire was meant, or
Preston the cobbler's (and he might ask the worthy
Alderman whether be had not had a communica-
tion with that person within the last 24 hours ?)
But he was informed by Thistlewood that it was at
the latter. He now came to the last question, and
it was fortunate that Thistle Wood did not lend him-
self to what seemed to have been the views of
others, for if he had then declared that Edwards
supplied them with money, it would immediately
go forth through the country, Oh, Thistlewood
has declared it just before being launched into
eternity. - The question was, ad Edwards give
you money ? But .what was the answer ? A trifle,
now and then a•pound note. Was Ed,Vards a
man Opening' to have money ?--No, not 'much !
Undoutitedly the conspirators had much more
money than they ought'eo have had, from what-
ever quarter it had come; and if what he' bad
just said should come to the ears of certain per-
sons, they should -know that Government were
not without proofs which might serve
.tor bring-
ing them ro justice. The four affidavits relied on
by the worthy Alderman came front Chambers, a
witness produced at the trials, but whose teti-
mony had been discredited by rise Jury; Tidd's
daughter, whose evidence had been considered to
strengthen the case for the prosecution, and Irons
persons of the names of Toebtidge and (we be-
lieve) Pinckbard. The worthy Alderman seemed
.10 have
_postponed Isis valtiable information till
after the execution of the convicts, as if to throw
a slur on the trial -and conviction. He for one
should certainly oppose:the motion.—(hear.)
Sir F. BtaabeTT, rose, principally to amake this
observat ion, -that if ever a speech was made cal -
citlited to support a motion which it was.intend-
ed to oppose, it was that of the Learned Gentle-
man who had just sat down. If the case was
91116 as lie had desciihea it to be, what, in the
name of God, could he objected from the other
side to the inquiry called .for by this motion 3. The
Learned Gentleman•said dime could be no doubt,.
rind would admit that there could be no doubt
of the existence of the -Conspiracy e but he (the
Attorney-General) had added, diet the late sof-
terers had stated Edwards to have nothing to do
with the plot, asserting that it %vial wholly of their
own framing. He (Sir F. Burdett) would say the
reverse of this was the fact, fur they had all,
glorying as they did in the plot for which they
aatfered, said they shookd consider themselves to he
murdered it Edwards were not Oared in the wit-
ness- box, that they might hive the satisfaction
of proving that he had instigated them to the
courses., which they had been induced to
sue. The manlier in which the worthy Madman
had been treated by the Attorney-General, was
not only in.ltis jtidgment wholly unparbansentary,
but certainly calculated to deter a hlembtr of Iliac

House from performing his duty, as tlie Worthy
Alderman had &Me, and for which he Loos'',lvied
hirn really to deserve the thanks of his country.—
Of the existence of the plot tor doubt cont.! be
entertained, as the sufferers had gloiird iu it ; bat
he had no hesitation iii saying that had they oot
admitted it, the evidence give:, on ,he trials would
not haVe removed all doubt from his mind. He
confessed that he regarded spies with that abhor-
rence with which till very lately they had always
beets viewed in England. con-i6r-.1 ri stn
as symptomi of the times, Wheo did •liese
creatures. make their appearance ? wasprosperous tithes, nor -nndet good Govere•ments.
—This he instanced by referring to the Roman
history, and appealing to the !loose it t, ey Nete
not found most ill use in the reiges of L\ei Ca-
ligula, and the other tyrants who had worn die
Imperial purple. Adverting to the conduct of Cas-
tles and Oliver, he maintained that it the former
was an accomplice, the latter woes unquestiouably •
Government Spy. For the mischief induced by
his means they must be held responsible. " Quf
tacit per aliumfocit per se," WHSa niaxiit wltis
he had a right to apply to them, and tse'must
tend that they hod no right to stir tip any part of
the people to outrage by menus of spies, as they
appearet! to have done, Spits ought not to be used
.as they had been on the late oce Nitta, Virnile con-
lending against this, he co;opl,ined that a smile
was called forth by what he had said, which he
should not have expected the most bribiaut effu-
sions of wit to produce on such an occasion. To
him it seemed evident that the coospirators bad
been seduced into the plot by Edwards. It ap-
peared very plain that these poor men were With.
OW, money—were, in fact, almost starving;. The•.
House had been told that no ne%v swords had b,wn,
produced on the trial ; hitt where, he wished to
know, did those funds come trout which had pur-
chased the aims which had been found in their
possession ? He admitted, that Mary Basket's evi-.
Bence went, in some measure, to support the case of
the prosecution, but still Edwitods Was found at the
bottom of all ; and where, lie could wish to know,
did that person, who had recently been a very
poor man, get the money which enabled him to
dole out occasional donations to Thistletvood ?
The Honourable Baronet then enlarged on the
evil effects of employing spies, and confessed that
he had so much vulgar prejudice about him, that
he abhorted and ele ester! them. He did no, think,
that they ought to be used at all, he considered.
them the have and pests of society, and wo-tid '
Almost rather that we should go back to the woodS
thixo have recoutse to such vile means to delta
conspiracy. Montesquieu had said spies were not
einidoyed by good Princes; but Maelli.ivel went
farther, and proved that the practice was as impo-
litic a 5 it was hateful.' In the present case,
was of opinion that the country would not be sa-
tisfied it inquiry was refused ; and he, therefore,
should vole •for the Committee, in the hope that
the granting of it wonld lead to tire et iniinatioo or
exculpation of Ministers.

Alt. CANNING confessed himself to have been
so satisfied with the state.ot the case, as it ap-
pealed from several speeches at both sides of the
House, that he determined, from many obvious
reasons, to have abstained from mixing iii tie de-
bate ; and if the matter were sitifeted to rest
on the grounds stated by the worthy Alder•
man, he should not h.,ve altered that determina-
tion ; but having heard what had fallen from the
Hon. Baronet, he'relt he had sufficient grounds to
justify his altering it. The worthy Alderman
said, in bringing the question forward, that he
disclaimed all intention of attacking ;
but the lion. Baronet says, it is an accusation of
the Government. Under that imputation, coining
from what quarter it may, and put forward with
whatever design it might, he could not, in justice to
himself or to his colleagues, remain silent. One
vice ran through all the reasoning of the Hon.
Baronet, namely, that lie assumed as fact every
thing stated in certain papers, which by courtesy
were called depositions. The Hon. Baronet also
asked Ministers to purge themselves from the cm.,
ployment of spies, and had in a manner put them
on their trial. 'The charge against than was the.
employment of spies, and overt act was the
detection of a conspiracy. Now this, iu his viw,
was no very heinous crime. It appeared the views
of the conspirators were only to 'dispatch a few
persons who filled obnoxious situations, and so
tar not very unpalatable to ttra:iy persons; but
then it should be considered that through their-
blood the destruction of the metropolis was likely
to have ensued. He did not take credit to hint.,
self or his colleagues for their being incidentally
saved, but they certainly deserved somethhig for
saving- their I; wintry. Nobody denied the inten-
tions of the coesoirators—few had the hardihood
to doubt:of their atrocious character, and fewer
still had the face to deny the perverse and (halm.
'Heal .spirit of their designs ; but not wittist.oa
lug ail this it was assumed, as a matter of
Prima facie evidence against the Gov, rnment,
that they succeeded in detecting such a conspiracy.
But they had detected it by liftman tneans, not iike
the Puritans of old; and they availed themselves
of the treachery of a fellow conspirator to effect
the public safety, and they secured it. What
.would be said to the Government, if aware of
(1-,lager, they had-neglected the meaos by which its
extent could be asiertained, and those who plotted
it punished, as they ought Why, perhaps, it
would be regarded) as en addition-al.. ground Inc
placing them nu their trial. Theo spies were not
to be believed; bait was no man to believe
another unless he could press hiin to his
Itosous--tunless you could make him the deposi-
tary of your cotififence ? Such a• proposition was
absurd ; and although the lionom,.able Baronet
complained of a smile at what be said, he might
have called it a laugh—he would find that ah•
surdity wouldsalways excite laughter, as 01. t: had.
found it on that occasion. Who could give
information of a conspiracy without participating
in it ? Suppose, in a private fari4ily, a man's set;
yam told him he was to he moldered, would the
toaster tell the servant, go you spotted traitor, yot
have betrayed your fellow conspirators, .your as-
sociates in crime, I will not listen to what yon
say. Would he do this, and take no precaution
against the danger that awaited him ? Suppose
this occulted to the Worthy Baronet himself—
why if his taste was of that description that he
wished hintbelf Worm up, he (\lr. C.) could have

irost:ible objection t' it ; but if it sn tap-
pened tha7 he had others to take care of, sup-
pose r omen and children to be placed tinder his
ocrsoos who looked up to him for pro-
tee i u, he thowllit on a balance of moral ditties,
that lie so oantic notions of hatred to spies would
be ci•tnple•ely overbalanced by the ;;seater calls at
the other side. A nation was a fatally on a larger
-scale, and the Government was bound to protect
it. But the ,ligtiment of the lion. Baronet was,
yuti should all, v the conspiracy to go on rather
titan 'eke such means of preventing its Deem t ence,
as were troitly within their power. Several 01 the
iientleme•t, on the other side went even a step fur-
ther. They iidienied the difference between a spy
and Atfinstigator. Theemploymeot of spies was in-
viden, al to the present state of things; and it should
not be forgot ten what duties a Government
would betray if they .di:l not employ them when
circumstances rendered it absolutely necessary. It
was said, you may have an informer, but not a
spy. Well, then, suppose you were informed of a
plot against you, to take place in eight or ten
tlaysee-suppose such a case, you have heard some-
thitlg, not the whole design, and he would leave
it to those who weighed morality by grains and
scruples to say s nether you were not to send
your informant back to collect entire,inforrnation,
and whet her you were t►dt to• act in such. a man-
ner as to ascertain all you could, before you pro-
ceed to detect anti punish those who ba'd so plot-
ted Why common sense would say, send him
back,--and then was the fanciful distinction at-
tempted to be drawn between a spy and an informer
atntee destroyed. The informer instantly became
a spy. If you admit you may receive ittformattot►,
it was mere drivelling to say, you should not pur-
sue it to save your country. There was no halting
on such an occasion. So far lie hoped lie had
stated the matter clearly and not extravagantly.
Ile telt as strongly as ally man the stain inflicted
oil human nature by such men, but they were
only brought belote a July for what their evidence
was worth. And for the senseless cry.raised against
their employment, it could only arise from a stu•
yidity danger itself could trot enlighten, or from
motives -of a character far worse. He would not
say such motives influenced the Worthy Alder-
min who brought forward this motion, but with-
out offence, he said, if any man wished conspi-
racy to prosper, lie could employ no other topics
than those which had beet► urged to-night.—
(Loud and Continued cries of hear, hear !)--
it would be tinpatliamentary to say such mo-
tives influenced any Honourable Member, butt

be was satisfied, if the present motion were
granted, the next conspiracy would sucreed.—
And now for the Worthy Altierman.—(Laugh.
t e r.) e was not responsible for the laughter
that ensued upon the mention of the Worthy Alder-
Man. He himself most be aware of his faculty to
excite merriment, he was elevated on a high pe-
destal, and stood first on the rank of all the Al-
derm?n that ever_were. In him (Mr. C.) his
earliest wishes were, by diver:ing him from the
consequences of his present ill-advised motion, to
restore him to that popularity which he so well
deserved. If any man suggested to bins (Mr. C )
the expediency of arresting a man on his way to
the scaffold to expiate his offences to the injured
laws of his country, be would pause before he
agreed to such-it course. It be were told at the
same time that the culprit was an Atheist, he '
would call on bins at the threshold to an-
other world to give bins admonition, and di-
rect Isas thoughts to the Being whose mercy
be had forgotten ; but was that the ob-
ject of the Worthy Alderman ? No such thing,—
Perhaps he had a family to provide for, and humanity
o•emeted him to give him hope that he would :lid them. No.
Terhaps, in the conflicts and the agony of his trial, he might
hare impeached some innocent fellow men, and, from a ge-
nerous interposition, he went. forward to persuade the cid-
e prit from adding the sins of inflice and of calumny to his
other stns. No such thing. If any man said to him (Mr. C.),
wttl sot stop sUCti a man, Will you become a pander to his
5105, will you be the means of letting him go onwards to
eternity with a convicted lie in his mouth ? I would base
treatatl such a proposition with scorn, just. as I would the
tempter of mankind, if he came in a tangible shape, to tempt
me into sin.—(Hear, hear !)—lt was strange that that which
was noised abroad its ail the newspapers made no part of the
motion of the Ilon. Alderman. Indeed, it appeared as if the
dying saying of Thistlewood were intended to have been
called the legacy of a saint to his beloved, the ill-governed
country. He hoped, however, that on this subject nothing
Aeould be thought of it more. But it also appeared that
Thistlewood, when asked if Edwards had giveu him money,
replied yes, a little now and then ; a few pounds occasionally;
but all that overflow of wealth that so unexpectedly came
upon him, as would appear front the Hon. Alderman's
opening speech, was all that seas mentioned by hinnwhile the
niggardly souls actually advanced were scarcely adverted to
by the 'Honourable Mover. He should here take an oppor • '
t unity of saying, that the stateraent of the Learned Attorney-
General, as to men of property supplying money, bad been
misconstrued. He said, a Gentleman's servant had supplied
some; but the Government was awat'e it was given by persons
above that raids, and they knew the patties. If, however,
under all the circumstances, the Worthy Alderman thought
the conduct of Edwards demanded enquiry, why not prefer a
hill of indictment against him?' For it did not happen that
arty thing a Lord Mayor or Aldernem fancied oug,tit to be
done, should he done: unless it were that, as a Lord Mayor
had backed some warrants signed by the Secretary of State,
he considered, when he signed a warrant, that the Secretary
Of State should back his warrant in return. True, an 'Alder-
mail was a great man, and a Lord Mayor a still greater;
but it should he understood that a Secretary of State was not
their servant. if they thought justice denied, they conic
complain to the ordinary tribunals ; but there was no Alder-
Inallie road to justice with which be had the honour of being
acquainted. The Right Honourable Gentleman then areued,
that if both Thistlewood and Edwards were to he considered
even as belongiag to the same class in criminality, and if
they had both of theta cOnfessed their haviug conspired
with Others to overturn the Government, still the Execu-
tive autilti be entitled to choose whom they would fix on,
as approver, to serve the purposes of prosecuting the rest.
in that ease they might, perhaps, has!' selected Thistle-
wood, bad he nut been suspected to he the actual perpetrator
of the murder. lint when the Gorernteent had once selected
an approver, would it Le fair or just to turn round on him
also, mid prosecute him is au accuroplice I;ere he ought to
ex the circumstances of,Edwards's infarmation. He had
not previously been introduced to Govethieent, mach less
traiued by them as a spy. He came with the iabirmation
• spoutaneously. He, it was true, came from time t, time to
make further discoveries, because it was not deemed prudent
to act tin the first disclosures rnade.--(ilear!)—He would
riot, bowever, admit, r tat Edwards sv4s la the sante category
of etrandees as Thistiewood and others. He had been slee-
p/17.a! ;Ind shocked In hear it argued that eveni!i4, as if Go-
✓erntaent-had teamed and this maa and falai' per-
s as spits. Nothing could la: nioee abhorrent to his n -
I.gre. and he trusted To that of his friends its oflice, than so
insidious and hateful a practice.—(Lund cries of Hear,
hear I)--.Was it to he expected, then, that upon the faith of
tineunworinpaper, Rout some petsoas whose participetittil
its
the guilt of the conspiracy could he preyed, and from ee hits
who at lea.l must have Teen guilts- of a 1111.1.15i011 of ti eason
in its concealment, his Majesty's 3linisters should consent to
it measure so fraught with hijostiea as lapseeutiag this man
Edwards, oil %%hose infarmasam they had been enabled to
• and defeat the objects of the conspirators, and which
finally led to the conviction of many of the conspirators them-
selves ? Now, all tins was to be effected Sty the proposed Com-
tnittee as it hail hat, cot fessed stud CV, II 11101:: ; for the Ha-
llow:11;1e Baronet, than whow no matt better knew the effect

of such an laquiry, bail not hesitated to nsi nll, that were
sneli an intpury instituted, it would have the eflect of put-
tin,: the Government itself 1111 its trial. Upon tanking out
such a meagre ca,e as this, would the house :t,sent to the ap-
pointment of a Committee, as proposed by the Worthy Al-
derman, or give implicit credit to the calumnious assertions
of the Honourable Batimet or his man, respecting a set of
Ministers, who, it rotr.t.t he admitted, at least in this in-
stance. bad been through these means the preservers of
their country ?—(hear 1)—If the motion should he carried,
its effect would be, first, to imply that blame attached to his
Majesty's Government; and next, it would necessarily fetter
the hands of Government upon the recurrence of similar cir-
cumstances. 11, on the contaary, the motion were rejected,
the House would repel, with nterited contempt, the charge
tirade against the Executive, of having propagated and nur-
tured spies; they would overawe and keep io check turbu-
lent spirits winch might be disposed to enter into dangerous
and revolutionary associations ; they would take from con-
:piracy its solidity, and weaken the bond of union; and leave
the State to struggle with its secret and domestic enemies,
withont depriving' it of its natural 111CillIS of coping with the
danger.---[Phis speech was received with loud and general
• applanse.l.

Sir F. BURDETT rose to explain. In reply to
the many absurdities which the Right Hon... Ge-
ntleman (Mr. Canning) had charged upon him, he
would take the liberty to point out some senseless
ex►►ggerations which that Right Hon. Gentleman
had been guilty of with regard to his (Sir F. Bur-
dett's) sentiments. In the list of his, absurdities it
had been represented that if his own house were
on fire, and the lives of his whole family depen-
dent on the steps he should take, in such a case
would he hesitate to receive, or to Act upon the
information of an accomplice in the mischief. He
had only blamed Government'for keeping in con-
stant pay a regular set of spies, who insidiously
went about the country for the purpose-of fo-
menting discontents and planning conspiracies, in
order to inveigle the unwary into the snares
of
the law.—(Cries of No, no, from the Ministerial
benches ) Ile would not retract what he had
said ; and under this explanation be would repeat
that the Right Hon. Gentleman's logic was most
absurd and senseless.
CANNING-4' Sir, I do not think I have
misrepresented the Hou. Baronet. I did not think
so before he last rose; nor do I think so after the
explanation he has given. 1 did not say that the
Hon. Bat onet contended for the rejection of evi-
dence after detect Mn."

Mr. BaouGuAnt was about to address tbeHouse,
when •

Sir F. ButtnKrr again rose. He begged par-
don for such frequent interruptions, hut, before
matters went any turtber, he should like to hear
from the Right Hon. Gentleman, what be meant
when he said, his (Sit F. Burdett's) man in that
House 1 The Right Hon. Gentleman, he thought,
WBB full of levity that night. He bad accused a
worthy Alderman of being dtuntt with popularity ;
but, for his part, be thought the Right 11011. Gen-
tleman was himself drunk with insolence.
Air. CANNING said, the Hon. Baronet saw and
beard the things that were not. With respect to
Iris giving a certain friend of the Hon. Baronet,
the title of his man ; he did so in allusion to some
speeches he had read, which were delivered during
the recess, in which be bad been designated as
standing in that relation to the Hon. Baronet.—
(The Right Hon. Gentleman alluded, no doubt,
to some part of the speeches delivered on the
Husings in Covent-Garden, in the course of the
late Election.)
Mr. BROUGHAM then rose, and briefly corrected the
erroneous i.pinion which appeared to he entertained by the
two lion. Members for Westminster, and by other Hon.
Members of that House, in regard to what had fallen from
him on a former night, on the subject of the employment of
spies and informers. He was far from defending the system
of their employment, which he never advocated, but only
excused, as sometimes rendered necessary, under eases of
peculiar emergency. It was rather hard that many of those
who had been most severe 'in their animadversions on
what he was supposed to have said on a former night,
seemed to have forgotten that spies were by nu means stran-
gers in the administration of the old Whigs. The Ho, and
LeMrned Gentleman, in conclusion, observed, that they had
been employed to a great exteut by Sir Robert Walpole; and,
to take a precedent of a different character, out of an older
date, he would observe, that Niug William was known to have
constantly retained them. lie recommended the Hon. Alder-
man to withdraw his motion ; but wily under the idea that
the Courts of Law were open to hint for redress. If in those ,
Courts he should meet with any impediment to the prosecu- •
tinn of this Mall. either by finding a noli prosequi entered by
the Government, or nom any other cause, it would then be
time far bon to come into that House.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL explained, that with respect
to a mistinderstandite, which had arisen in a passage its his
speech, he had said that the late conspirators received money
from a Gentleman's servant, and Irons other quarters, and t hat
he hoped what he then said would reachtheir ears;—(Hear)—
and he still hoped that might be the case.
Mr. Aldermais WOOD then rose to reply—Notwithstand-
ing the violent attacks that had beets made upon bins, be
should not be deterred from doing what it was Its duty
to do. It would appear from what hail fallen from the
Learned Attorney-General, that he (Alderman Wood) drew'
his conclusions from the information of persons who were
concerned in the late conspiracy, and that he kept back
the names of his informers ; so far from it, he had given
up the names of the whole. But it the Honourable
Gentlemen opposite were to be believed, their evi-
dence was not to be compared to that of Dwyer---a man who
bad heel' concerned in a burglary, mid who they were afraid
to call as a witness on the second trial. The lion. Alderman
then went into a history of what took place at his interview
with Thistlewood on the morning of his execution, and con-
eluded by declaring that he would stake his existence if
be Aid not prove Edwards to he the sole instigator of the
plot; and he was willing to withdraw his motion, if the
Attorney-General would rise in his place and pledge himself
that he would not enter a process to stop bins from prosecut-
ing Edwards in the King's name : if he would du so, he
would prosecute him at his own expense.
Mr. CANNING said, be understood the worthy Alderman
wished to withdraw the motion; therefore he took the oppor-
tunity of stating, that he fur one would not suffer the motion
to he withdrawn.
Sir RoDERT WILSON then rose, and observed, that he
felt embarrassed in bringing to the recollection of the House
that sonic asperity had occurred during the debate. He ex-
pressed a hope that the House would juin with him in wishing
the motion withdrawn, and that what had passed might be
buried in olivion.
The SPEAKER was satisfied there could be but one wish
on the subject alluded to by the gallant Officer. He was
sure, if any expression unguardedly fell from the lion. Mem-
bers its the course of debate, they would in justice give each
other that satisfaction the Hon. and Gallant Officer had sug-
gested.—(Hear,near.)
The SPEAKER then said, as the Hon. and Gallant Officer,
in his address to the House, did not point distinctly to the
Members to whom he alluded, it was his duty, after the
silence Wan bad taken place, to state the IlallleS :—Sir F.
Burdett and Mr. Canning.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT then rose, and in a low tone of
voice staled, that he considered it his duty to say what he
did. It occurred to him that the Might Hon. Gentleman said
the Worthy Akleianair was drunk with popularity.--(A cry of
No, no!)—He did not mean to say the Right Honourable
'Gentleman it,ed the express words, but certainly he tout; the
meaning to be that the Worthy Alderman was intoxicated
with popularity. The words he used in consequence of that
impression were not intended to he-personal.
Mr. CANNING never wes more .surprised in his life. There
was no quarrel. Ile took nothing amiss from the lion. Ba-
ronet. If the lion. Lieronet was the champiati of the
Wert by Alderman, he could not help it. Ile did nut mean
to give any of in what he bad said, and he was surprised
o rind there was any unpleasant feeling on the pat t of the
Hier. Baronet. No two persons could be more hostile iii po
lilacs than the Hon. Baronet and himself, but he had nut the
lea-( private or personal hostility.
The SPEAKEtt then expressed that the Hem. Memberspru-

THE SUN.

SOLEM QUIS DIOEHE FALSIIIVI AUDEAT ?

LONDON,
IVEDNES I)4Y, MAY 10, 1820.

We received this morning the Paris Papers of
Sunday last, but we have scarcely room to notice
them. In the Chamber of Peers, on Saturday, the
projet respecting' the Financial Accounts • was
agreed to, 118 to 2, In the Chamber of Depu-
ties, M. LUNE made the Report from the
Committee on the new Election Projet, recom-
mending its adoption, with some amendments, of
which the only material one seems to be that where
the number of Electors in a Department does not
exceed 300, they shall all assemlae in one Col-
lege. The Report was ordered to be print-
ed, and a number of Deputies inscribed their
names to speak for and against the projet.--
A discussion of some length took place
respecting the communication and printing
of papers connected with the subject,
after which the discussion was ordered to be
opened on Monday next. The discussion was
then resumed on the projet respecting the Ctis-
toms, and ►vas again adjourned till Monday last.
The KING transacted business. 'on Saturday with
the Duke de R tctrEt.tEu'and Marshal MACDoNALD.
The report of the arrival of the Queen of ENGLAND
at Paris is 'spin contradicted. The Gazette de
France says—" We are assured that the issa,sin of
M. MoutaLtAaT (the Garde dn Corps) has been
arrested, and that arms and a Out of conspiracy

were found at Ills residence." there is no furOlel
news in these Journals from Spain.

Saturday.

FIVE PER CENTS.

73 f. 30 c.

11F.FfililiED STOCK.
Of the 22d March, 1817 lOO f. 70 c.
22d March, 1320 BB f. 80 c.

A Letter from Parts mentions a report whicli
was circulated in Loudon two or three days agtfr
that there had been a.dreadfui commotion at Lyons►
i❑ consequence of the expected arrival there Gf
the Duke d'ANGooLEma. The regular trbor
were called out And afterwards the Swiss, who,s
is added, were cut to pieces. It would be observed'
in our Paper of yesterday that a Telegraphic
Dispatch bad announced the arrival of the Dula
d'ANGOULEM6 at Lyons, and nothing is said °
the Path Journals of any commotion.

QuEEN.—We understand that Mr. no
a Gentleman in full confidence of the QUEEN (b'l‘.
not in political matte's), has recently received
letter from herself, desiring that he will, superiir
tend ail necessary preparations for her receptiool
and stating that she will certainly be here abaul
the middle of this month.—Creclat Judaas
pella !

Letters received this morning from Batavia, 4
the 2d of January, state, that the whole of al
Cotton Crops have been destroyed by the locusti
arid business is exceedingly dull, as English maio
factures, excepting fine qualities, sell 30 per cell'
cheaper than they can be purchased in Englaal
but the fine articles sell at a good price, and 1'
which there is a good market.

We have certainly no right to question the motives of
Member of Parliament, even if it were not dangerous to 41°
so, lest we should incur the displeasure of the [louse,
surely we may be allowed, without breach of privilege, °I
pity the understatidinss of those who may propose ineasurg!i
rather calculated to disturb the minds of the People, thong'
be of the least advantage to the Country. Al Alderrosil
WOOD, therefore, has our full compassion as to the subid
which he last night brought forward in the Housiii CO'e
mons. No earthly benefit could possibly be derived to thiJ
Country, or to any other State, frora the motion which
introduced. Is any Government to have information
horrible plots have been devised for its destruction, and if
general plunder and massacre, and not to be allowed. to
iu practice the only means necessary, nay essential, to defS
them ? The idea is ridiculous, and those men who tbioY
otherwise, can hardly be deemed competent for a share IP
the Legislature of any State. We have given so ante
a report this day upon so extraordinary a subject, one so 01
fit for Parliamentary discussion, and one, in one opittio*

of so very injudicious and indiscreet a character, partieularli
in the present state of the Country, that we shall defer a"i
observations which we might otherwise be ioclimed to.(4801
on the occasion till to-morrow, if, indeed, it would" not 17°
snore consistent with sound policy and common sense told
the matter sink into oblivion.
We cannot, however, conclude without referring
Readers (which is all we have room to do) to the able are
ment of Mr. CANNING, upon the expediency of receiving
formation from accomplices, and- employing them for
general good and the public safety; whildhe, at the
time, expressed his abhorrence of employitixata instigator
the diabolical purposes disclosed by the Informer. It 0
be seen that the Worthy Alderman was so completely eve):
powered by the argumentative wit and sarcastic httruour cl 7
played by Alr. CANNING- and MP. BANKES, that he did
venture to press his motion to a division..

CORN-EX.CHANGE, MAY i toosidarable (pant-it/1;
Wheat remained over from Monday's supply, and hasiaa
further arrival this morning from Suffolk, with hut hales
wand for it, the sales were exceedingly heavy, and only 0.)4
select samples of White from Essex found buyers at Monts's,
prices, all other surts were nearly unsaleable; Erne Igal',f,
Barley supports Monday's prices, having but littlest waft'
The arrivals of Oats were large; the trade was not so hriP.,l
on Monday, but prices remain the same.—ln Beans and r
there is no alteration.
The H, maws- ,f the gr—

MAIDSTONE, MAY B. sops in _ yos gri—,44l
lout: exceeding yellow and unhealthy, and the frost of VITO
night, we fear, has been very destructive to much of the bl

THE CORONATION.—fin Gazette of last
contains his MAJESTY'S Proclamation, ()Mel
the Coronation to take place on 'rueaday the
of August next.
This day the KING held his first Levee.--I
particulars to-morrow.
The Waterloo, ALkAGER, and Essex, Nest
e'
from China, have arrived off the Start.
4 eit°
Mr. JOHNSON, one of his MAJESTT'S me-4
gers, who arrived in London on Sunday itiorttifiro
with dispatches from France, left town
the evening, and sailed front Dover at tour A do
and arrived at Calais the same morning, it ip4licre
posed he was charged with dispatches of iinese
ance. Mr. KRAUS, a private messenger, also
rived yesterday with dispatches.
CITY BUSINESS..—At a Court of Aldermen, -eft
yesterday at Guildhall, the Right Hon. the -00
M4,7c0:1, in pursuance of the power vested io
by the Act of Common Council, for regulolift%
tft'e Election of Sheriffs, nominated the folio`' to
Gentlemen, to he publicly put in not inatio/
the Livery for that Office t'or the year ensuin6'
Robert Sulam, Esq. citizen anti mercer.
Jolin Tt'eobatd, Esq. cordwainer.
Joseph Bunsor, Esq. ginner.
Alexander Copeland, Esq, stationer.
John 15 oolley, Esq, glover.
Samuel Broolie, Esq. cordwainer.
George 11.Kchus, Esq. needlemaker.
Richard Butler, Esq butcher.
Jacob Clements, Esq. merchant tailor. co
ti
Thanks were unanimously voted to the
MON SEPJEANT, fOr.titAreat attention and avdo°
displayed by him at the late long, and arduous
sions at the Old
,liailey.

. --- -- =-----
At.
MATH._:___ _: f the
Yesterday tnerning, in Whitehall-yard, the Lady 0-
tortiej-Gcneral, of a (laughter. .
---

eY
DIED.
On Saturday, the 6thin,t. , at hi, house in (ilegri; hi!
place, New-read, Captain Charley 1). Jermy, Ft*
Stith year

Printed by J. 13, CA Rsm:as, at No. 1121 .•.