The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-16 00:00:00

tom, ben), e submit tor:. then, t, u-I,ament ; and having done sa,
to sus,ain them man ully. With regard to education, it was
their intention to ad ere to ti.e minute of 1.539. The nation
granted 30,0004 under that minute, for the purposes of educa-
tion, but that 3009/. secured the expenditure of at least
120,0001. by private individuals. for the purposes of education.
He entirely agreed with the Hon Member for Tavistock, in
thinking t hat cue attention should be paid to the investigation of
the subject of 'he teal-appropriation of :urns which had formerly
been devoted to purposes of education. It was the duty and
the desire of the Government to pay the most anxious attention
to the subject. It was their intention to go fully into the in-
vestigation, and he believed that it would be found that ample
binds existed ; and if it should be necessary to apply t.) the
Legislature for power to appropriate those funds to their legiti-
mate destination, the Government would have no hesitation in
applying to Parliament for the necessary powers.
Sir ft. INGLIS admitted the ju'tire of the rebuke of his
Right Hon. Friend, but he pleaded in his justification the ex-
aa.ple of the Hoe. Member for Montrose.
Mr. VERNON SMITH was rejoiced at the manner in
which the Secretary of State for the Home Department had
spoken out. The Hon. Member for Oxford wished Go-
vernment to 'ake the same ground which they had occupied
in 1839 as an Opposition. He denied that the minute of 1839
was the result of any compromise. He hoped the present
Government would act up to the spirit of the minute, and not
suffer themselves to be driven front their purpose by the Right
lion. Memb:t for Oxford, who evidently was desirous of creat-
ing a difference between the Fresidtnt of the Council and
the Secretary of State for the Home Department.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM explained. He readily retracted
the word dictate, for the compromise was the result of the
opposi' ion offered to the measures of the Government.
Mr. \V YSE was glad to see that there was a disposition on
the part of the Government to establish normal schools. They
ou,:ht to insist that in all schools for ,eachers, there should be
established a minimum of instruction, without which no teacher
sf,ouid be permitted to be'sent out fr ,n) the school. Before he
sat doun, he begged to express his satisfaction with the con-
duct of the representatives of the Government in the other
Home of Parliament, and that the differences of party did nut
induce a different course of policy upon this impo:tant subject.
He was r. jolted to fled that there was a prospect of this country
being equal to other cuuntries on the important subject of
education.

The tore was then agreed to.
he next vote was for 4,5161. to defray the expenses of the
University of London during the year ending the sth March.
In answer to a que,tion from Mr. WOOD, •
The CHANCELLOtt of the EXCHEQUER said there
was a reduction in the amount of the vote, but that the manner
in which that reduction should be made was left entirely to the
Senate of the University
Sir J. 'GRAHAM stated that it had been the opinion of
Mr. Warburton that nothing could be more objectionable than
the multiplication of salaries to the Examiners.
Mr. HUME thought they ought to have had a Report on
the subject before they were called on to vote such an estimate.
He objected to the Members of the Senate hay ng the disposal
of funds of which many of them were to be the recipients. At
the present time they were quite incompetent to form an
opinion of the propriety of the vote. He thought the Chan-
ceilor of the Exchequer would be able considerably to reduce
the amount of the vole.
The vote was then agreed to..
On the sum of 3,147/. being proposed to defray the expense
of the School of Design.
Mr. HUME askew if any Report had been drawn up of
vi bat had been done in this school during the past year ?
Mr. GLADSTONE stated that the l'epoit was in Prepara-
tion, and wooed be ',resented in a few days.
Mr. HUME thow.ht they had better postpone the vote till
after the Heron had been completed,—(oh, oh.)
The vote was agreed to.
A vote of, 30,01)01. for the expens"s of the Revising Barris-
ters, for revising the list of voters for England and Wales, was
put and agreed to, after a short discu%si•ni, during which

. .
Sir J. GRAHAM stated that it was his intention to intro-
duce a Keg stration Bill during the present session, which
would provide an appellate jurisdiction, and would, he hoped,
obviate the d,screpancy of the present Act, which had given
rise to such contt aoictory decisions.
The vote of 12,300/. to defray the expenses of Sheriffs, for-
merly charged in the civil contingencies, and to make good the
defictene,es in the office of the Hemembrancer of her Majesty's
Court of Exchequer, was agreed to without discus-ion.
On the vote of 110,0001. to defray the expense of criminal
prosecuti,,ns, formerly taken from the County-rate, being pro-
posed,
Cllr. HUNIE said that it was quite time this vote should be
stopped. The country gentlemen had for the last two or three years
had a good time of it, and thv public now ought to have their turn.
They ought to go back to the good old times when this vote
was paid out of the county rates • it was astonishing how easily
the sticklers for existing laws and old customs abandoned their
principles, when maintaining them touched their pockets. He
thought the vote aught ro be postponed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said this
vote bad been fTmerly agreed to by the House on full conside-
ration. It was thought necessary to the administration pfjus-
tice that the public should pay a large portion of the expense of
bringing offenders to justice. The difficulty of finding the
means of prt.setution, had been attended with an increase of
crime, and for that reason the Government had to pay one-half
of the expense charged upon the county-rate for that purpose.
The expense was formerly taken out of the poor-rate, and if
the Hon. Member threw it back upon this fund he would not
work a very popular change.
Mr. HUME said the question was not whether the change
would be popular, but whether it would be just. Uhat he
complained of was, that the Government had nu check or con-
trol 0, er this expenditure.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the
accounts were properly audited every year by the Government.
Alr. HUME said that was not the question ; it was ac
power of directing what was to be the expenditure in the first
place, not the auditing it afterwards.
The vote was then agreed to.
10,9001. for the subsistence of Polish refugees was s ated
without discussion or opposition.
On the vote of 4,740/. being proposed, to enable the Trustees
of the British Museum to purchase certain collections of anti-
quities and natural objects,
Dr. BOW RING asked whether the collections to be pur-
chased could not be included under one vote, instead of being
put down separately ?
Lind STANLEY said the vote was for the annual amount
of the purchases, and it was impossible to foresee under what
Leads the different items would come.

After a short conversation the vote was agreed to.
A vote of 30,0001. to aefray the expenses of the steam corn.
munication with India by the flea sea was agreed to.
3,1101. was voted for the civil establishment of the Bahama
Islands.

8,1881. for the civil establishment of the Bermudas.
3,0701. no Prince Edward's Island.
10:680/. for the establishment on the western coast of Africa
W 33 agreed to.
7,099/. for the establishment of Western Australia was
agreed to after a short discussion.
On the sum of 13415/. being proposed to defray the charges
of the Ecclesiastical Establishments in the British Provinces in
America and New Zealand,
Mr. V. SMITH trusted that the Government would with-
draw this vote, in order to bring it before the House in some
more subitantive shape,by which the general principle of esta-
blishing Bishops in the Colonies, to be supported by this coun-
try, should be fully discussed.
Lord STANLEY was surprised at the observations that had
beer. made by the Right Hon. Gentleman, because the present
vote was proposed in consequence of the suggestion of Lord
John Huss it, when Secretary for the Colonies, and when the
present Government came into office they thought they were
bound to adopt the act of their predecessors, and being of that
opinion, hey had proposed the present vote.
Mr. HUNIE though,. the House ought not to sanction the
outlay of public money in this way ; and if Lord John russell
ha,t suggested such an expenditure. he ought to pay the money
out of his own pocket.—(Laughter,) He would propose that
they should reduce the amount by 874/., but i': they did not do
so, he would then move that Lord John Russell should pay it
himself.—( Laughter. )
Mr. M'ILLIAMS seconded the proposition of the Hon Mem-
ber for Montrose. _ _

—Theorigitial question and amendment having been put,
Mr. WILLIAMS did not see why the starving people of this
country should pay the salaries of Bisho; s of rich colonies.
Nr. PA*KINGTON said 1,000/. a year was given to the
Boman Catholic Bishop of Quebec, while the Protestant Bishop
was lett without a farthing to support his station.
Air. ItUNDALL said he had pleasure in voting against the
vote altogether. .

Lord PALMERSTON said he should certainly vote for the
proposal of his Noble Friend, the late Secretary for the Colo-
nies. He thought the Colonies ought to support their own
clergy. He should not, therefore. vote for this proposal as a
permanent arrangement. hut merely on the recommendation of
his Noble Friend, that the provision ought to be made.
ilhe Committee then divided—
For the original motion
For the amendment
Majority against the amendment lO6
On our return to the gallery we found
Mr. HUME addressing the Committee. He said he should
move, when the House went into Committee of Ways and
Means, that the amount of 7001., the salary of the Bishop of
New Zealand, be made up by the late Administration, as it
was granted in direct violation of their expressed opinion.
After a short conversation the vote was agreed to.
A vote of 18,696/. was then proposed for the charges of the
Indian Department in Canada.
Mr. HUME said he had understood that this vote was to be
reduced.
The vote was then agreed to.
The sum of 1,023/. was then voted for the civil establishment
of Heligoland.
The sum of 59,8501. was then voted to defray the salaries
of the Stipendiary Justices in the West Indies, the Mauritius,
and the Cape of hood Hope.
The sum of 24,0001. was voted to defray the expenses of
providing for the religious and moral instruction of the negio
population.
The sum of 5,0921. was voted for the expenses of the
Emigration Board.
The sum of 5,0001. was voted for the relief of the sick
and destiti:te emigrates on their arrival in Canada.
The sum of 11,5001. was voted for the civil establishment of
St. Helena.
The sum of 2,0001. was voted for the civil establishment. of
the Falkland Islands.

Th, sum of 75,8501. was voted to defray the law expenses
hnd grants to Scwtch Universities.
Ihe sum of 200,039/. was voted to defray the expenses of
the Commi•sariat.

The sum of 50,0001. was proposed to enable the Lord Lieu-
tenant, to promote education in Ireland.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL did not wish to disturb the har-
mony which seemed to pervade, the House on the subject of
ecucation. He was glad to see that Hon. Gentlemen opposite
felt it to be no lunger necessary to persist in their sectarian
distinctions, which were cdlculated to create disunion and bad
feeling.
Mr. CAMPBELL said that although Hon. Gentlemen on
this side of the House declitit d to divide, that was ho proof that
they had aban, oned their opinion.
Captain JONES said that a ProtestatA could hardly be
found in the nal° al schools of Ireland.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL—Where?

Captain JONES—The north of Ireland.
Air. V. SMITH was surprised that the Noble L',rd the Se-
cretary fur Ireland should leave the defence of this vote to the
Gentlemen opposite, while these Gentlemen all abused the vote.
Lord ELIOT thought that the taunt f the Hon. Member
was not altogether unmerited, but as Honourable Gentlemen
did not mean to divide, he did not think it necessary to speak.
He mu.t say that Hon. Gentlemen behind him had indulged in
very gt oss misrepresentations. In every national school to ire-
land, one or too hours a day was laid apart for religious in-
structiOn. But was his Noble Friend the author of this system ?
Decidedly not. The very same plan had been chalked out in
1812 by the Archbishop of Armagh, Dr. Elrington, and
ethers. The Scriptures were not withheld or excluded from
the school, but selections from Scripture were used, and those
selections consisted chiefly of the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of
the Apostles; his belief was that instead of the relig,ous Institut-
tnni of the pupils being neglected by this means, they were
thoroughly instructed in the first principles of religion. A
Commission had been appointed to inquire into education, and
they had expressed their approval of the uati mal system, whilst
the much-boasted Kildare-treet system had failed altogether,
the children haying been found to have no knowledge of reli-
gien whatever ;all they
learned appeared to be,le.arned by rote,
.14iad-to make no iwpresooo4o4 ile wt t alio disV