The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-20 00:00:00

et a much smaller expense, than they could hope to do in Ire-
/and, where all the machinery of collection wculd have to be
established. But not being able to impose the income-
taa on Ireland, he had made an ad lition to the
',tamp duties in thst country, linneine them up to the same
Amount as that paid in England.- ( Bear, hear. 1 Tie Hon,
and Learned Mee.hei fur Bath hart prop • •ose,i that the tax should
be confined to real a•.d landed prop erty i Ireland, dh•
ha at
• the same time told the House
that thatn propertyanwas ford the
Pe'aast Part very much burdened, and that the debts on it were
t orally held by persons in this country. He would see. there-
tore, that the amount of revenue to be derived from Ireland
Route( on this account be considerably diminished. The lien.
bieuiter for Coventry had proposed to extend the income-tax
to the Government otti ear; in Ireland, 1 ut th. wording o. the
ammtment of the firm_ and Learned Member for 11„th ex
, tressly excluded thine^ riereine from the op •rer ;en of the tax -
- hear.) The Hon. Aiember for Cee,,,try sheuld also
;Member that the officers employed in Ireland were paid by
•
• 4'l"d, and if they had exempted that country genera:ly from
_La °Peration cf. a tax, he thought there would be no justice
• ZZroatever in selecting one particular class, and fixing it on them,
eatise they were maee obnoxious to the tax or mere helpless
any other class or the community. This was net an
Csiiits on ss hich he could follow the Honourable Member
Oo Coventry through all the remarks he had made
isettee estimates ; they would shortly come before the House in
0 ail, and he should 'then be prepared to prove to the lion.
o:etiernan that t
due hey e
co rsideratie framed w
toiththe rem:at- a due regard
interests
to eco-
rilotrn,y.,
fmthY and with at
ow
o
:°t'sie:reag There were other lion. Gentlemen who had
en during the evenine, who hsd alluded to various political
which they thought re: dered it inadvisable to
hraPes de
the income tax on It eland. those considons
re !lid not think it eecessary to enter.lnto Having established the
t°%tion that, as a tax, it would not b. productive, he thought
st:lneeeeesiiry to enter onto any other reasons for not imposing,
panda
Villth these observation he should leave the question in the
aof the House, trusting that the House, in the absence of
berte rtion of the Irish Members, would prove that Eng-
„ass__' Nen donut desire to impose burl ens on them, but that their
NZ would be effectually fought by the English Members
. ever Irish interests were concerned.
taiHUME said it appeared to him the debate had taken a
wi;tithisat it ought not have done, from an erroneous eiew of
tax e "eY were called on to consider. He thought the income-
. it ,:" efiioas one ; but as the Right Hon. Baronet stated that
-'lll to he a temporary one, he should not wish
)and, any alteration in it as regarded Ire •
flfeßut he thought the Honourable and Learned
the Teer for Bath had been misunderstood. He denied that
ou/e-tne-tax would be an injustice to Ireland, as it would
teet; 'a On those who eould afford to pay it ; and it should be
he,.!nberd that Ireland would have a fair share in all the
h4setirs arising from the present remission of taxation. He
• pert o:re thought it would be but fair that she should bear a
QIN.' the burdens which enabled the Government to make
ettly increase in the stamp-duty paid by Ireland was
that I,;•„'•°°W. On a revenue of 454,000/., derived from
tburrs'ree• This was all the equivalent that Ireland paid for
the h,:n et five millions borne by England. In dwelling on
440--.44'ttee and hardship that would be done to Ireland by
tiseu„','eg this tax on it, the last speaker had really made a
eks.Viin of a mole-hill—aud he was really quite surprised to
Ipeti nine,
s; Let Ireland, if she was to have her share of the
Witte! °° of taxation, bear her fair share of the burdens also.
hW ktet•l Property had not borne a sufficient
portion of that
,s•11s- for the last fifty
kg, yam no less than pr seventy-four p cent. of the whole
ht tint of the taxation of the kingdom. England paid the
fOovehee cause it was imposed by the Governmetit, and the
Ithyie,rnent imposed it with very little consideration ; and
of the weause those who did it, and who managed the affairs
country, suffered very little from. the imposition.--
(-sown of the Hen.
f"rn-bWeear.) However, as this prop,
t. tn tor Bath would cause an entire change in the taxa
loetjad, which would very much benefit the country, ttie
ehOntrib
-„It was made the better.—( Hear, hear.) He would
""Y should not the House call uponW Ireland
itute her portion to this tax ? The change
it IL, the imposition of it would cause would be
Oars I.'ed not taken place in this country for the last forty
attas at would have the effect of giving employment to thou-
St et,'" benefit Ireland in a thousand ways, which he could
tete detail. Nothing could be more easy than to bring
elando 1 er'tion the machinry for the collection of the tax in
hOttlbut, if it should not be imposed, and that other taxes
the be re,•
tee Itted in that country, the result would he that
eetttsii °nisi be imposed on the bee instead of the honey, and
stal 'Y the hive would be destroyed. He would tell the
(11t,ef Ireland, that if they claimed equal rights with Eng-
e,„"keY ahowld bear an equal share of the public burdens.—
t%nit; "ear. ) He should like to. see. the property of that
eeklithY fairly taxed, if the owners of it claimed equal rights with
eTen ; hut, if that tax should be imposed. that was no
itN1141;111,1/ stich threats, as h ,c 1 heard to-night, of murder,
4t , n, and fire. and all that, should he held out.-
- le') But, remit., all this aside,would say thet
ett-ust°4ld be made to bear a full and fair proportion of the
Oh.) ~then let her call for equal privileges. —( Hear, and a
EZlelt e 'he income-tax, if extended to Ireland, would not
ittletet ;II heavily as was imagined, for there were very few
1,-" the h. 4 that country who paid 3001. a year, and, therefore,
,arden of the tai would fall on the landlord ; and with
persons in Ire lani who derived the r incomes
'hie lex
vti Offices, he would like to, know why they should not
tth • Hear, hear.) For these reasons he would
Roe,Ton.
147.5.! RT PEEL said he felt bound to declare that he
• -946 "on• Member who had just sat down the fullest
ita te, e,n unusual degree of candour.—(Laughter.) It
is,,tllo,ipPortant to the Hon. Member's constituents that
Vesufsl"•nederstand the consistency, integrity, and good
44iteeoe4h characterised the statement of the Hon. Member
1 ,(Ring for the vote he was about to give upon this guess
laughter.) The Hon. Member had said, in
, that if it had not been for the foolish speech" of
es4;,4lll.„,A.letaber at this side of the House—(Laughter)—he
to `"•hav
side .come to this cenelusion.—( Laughter.) So that
vcitaL jorr the House had to say they felt indebted
httel ele ilereet speech—(Laughter)—for the proposition
to.ll' Nfernber (Mr. Hume) to make a total change
-,ra of to now in exercise in this country.—
lestteetlite; New, was it possible that such a change could
L 'Ott, :race in the sentiments of a gentleman. who, tor the
vel74it
it)rarl—(
opoesears, during which he had a seat in that House,
lkiNiit7 every measure of a financial nature that had been
Hear, hear, and laughter.) But here let
ett Peel) say that, during those forty years, he
e 'flitted the great services that that Hon. Member had
Iseitis,etsse°l,°°try, although he had never yet given him a vote.
isies'itaPtss"etr, and laughter. ) However, he should say, he
44.1,bt anticipated the result of the Hon. Member's exer-
lehl'oe tett treat judgment and perspicuity en this proposition,.
theltiy,,,a'wered that he wruld upon this occasion give an
Itettii%at font°---(Laughter ) It should be admitted that,for
%Ott Y Years, the Hon. Member had raid the closest at-
lee,klk to tbnatters of finance, and always opposed what he con-
tug ,°Onnecessary expenditure ; but the Hon. Alem-
itte"`'' night declared that it was in consequence of a
tiltits,'netseseh from this side of the House that ho would advo-
N!) at ned taxation lie (Sir R. Peel) had been left com-
') " nwa what to say.—( Great laughter.) Ho (Sir R.
hat
what the Hon. Member would have said
IN?) h, 'wing the interest of money, and all that, but he should
th'tdvecasa hardly prepared to hear that the Hon. Member
'Ntt side 41e increased taxation, because of an Hon. Member
;Pk, the House having delivered himself of a foolish
Nes eta `(?P'at laughter.) In reference to the Hon. Member
%aY P'itered that t, foolish speech"—( Laughter)—let
n Gentle-
kilal,passPou that
telle Most heartily congratulated that Ho .
1"i) os ',Molt felicitous speech—( Laughter )—for he Sir
L'et ,ay that he did think that a higher compli-
elsheW"ala 4,„--,: he paid any Member of the House than that
LAW • altered 01 the taxation of the country was proposed
‘4l4te because of the delivtry of that speech
"°l° Halle -
ewinss .e burst into a general and loud fit of
tarpas much to the humorous tone of the Hon..
ell \ed en 'very, as to the mock gravity of his manner, while
IsiLllet'totikand
.bowed to the Hon. M.ember for Done-
-4l of
"base un serious, let the House consider what was tßhe
"peeele of the Hon. Member. He (Sir
this
Zit yslietsid,Y to admit that justice would require that
.i
Rs;" leto ee extended to Ireland—( Hear, hear)--and in
leotodad, h„' r hen this tax was propose t to b. imposed up es
n' her
r 1 en
Goverment did not dr code that it
`ltpso'red extended to Ireland, until they had maturely
of ~,ankleet, and had feund by calculation that the
tfeY„, he,,°°t et 4'141g the machinery for the collection of it
Lies bse elto warrant such a step. —( Hear, hear.) And
7ttysitin Irel°and that the increased spirit duty, and -stamp-
tee4l poeciattld, would prove more productive than the pro-
iiie„7et could.—( Hear, hear.) Therefore the Go-
ne "Itt '-'eited that 'he better to require an
etie
Lie guest !arid aceaccount of other taxes than impose
Zled,t,tettt, Hear, hear.) Let lion. Members re-
„tl,-I,llpr-,;'' Minister of the Crown that he could call to
brandkletrad the imposition, of this tax upon Ireland. not
stl‘teoe, enould be peculiarly favoured at the eense
in
keltesisaotry shectese local causes and difficulties listed in
se-'teo7 an that rendered the levy of it impossible without
so,ltio,4sPencliture greater than the income.—( Hear )
Zvi 1141'4h:4,045t the immediate effect which would arise from
t'to4 found it, the ineonie-tax and the re•roval of other
eke, h:eat
Britain' el""ring
the condition of Ireland.t7it Os.tse ate)lreland would not he dealt justly with.—
bO,
Isook et the facts. By the romal of the cotton
~,ttstk,/,‘"s‘an manufacturer was benefited to the amount
ifeZr, hilst in Ireland the duty was no more than.
N's_tlnt t'on thst' he ) Certainly it was to be taken into
ht',t.rihi,i most of the color, used in Ireland paid the
ittee*'tott Lie ported he hoped to see the day when cotton
the'erN,„l st'to Cork, and Ireland would not be depe.n-
Nt'ene o; attetiou"_r the supply. —( Cheers.) By the rsints-
-111
,teel 274 nnn",eties England would be benefited to the
ti„, IsNtnrl in Ireland only to 11,800/.—( Hear. )
L'-'t "and -"'" glass duties amounted to 774,000 L;
eq.) %tablish°4lY to 5,547/.—( Hear, hear.) These
wi be_,en important difference. (Hear,
1.1 et the e' " be could convince the people
ors, te eelinge wh• • het••else]. ealemoi - which animated the Government of
that ee.,
s, • ated as it was in Ireland.—( Cheers. )
tOrhtee., that there would be a universal feeling of satis-
4kt(s2 entititt°,' if they could see the manufacturer, of
licheelslemties °Riand equal competition with the manufac-
Mu 7-k dear, hear ) Now, it was with great
for Corke heard h• L
ti is on. and earned Friend the
e.are e_ Ines 84Y, the •
thee tfie~([le"tinß est, eel, die Men in Iris country, with the prospect of
,Lincad devoted themselves to agitation
r, hearanention to the improvement of their
seciii,lfeetiolns )t. agreed in the general propos' io
inns ° tee empire should be placed upon an
110. Which Peet to taxation, but that was not the pro-
:`a',te House was now called upon to
Lb and Great Britain land, offices, profes-
'Ate Alt it trades, .
tree lees was Britain,
subject to the income-
tstiLtrty inns That w Pro Posed to subject in Ireland land only
tve;,7
ed resit iff,:ete,'T Pat equality. But in feet land was the ts 'ed ;T isn Ireland by the tax, for if the land-
s), ~he eratio, „r nt
iuslite;wieg'atid he was subject to the tax, which
to him to reside in Ireland. After
tispe"ele,,,itans
coil question the difficulties of construct-
tit '"' Enfrie ,let!ng the tax, and the different condition
kseitsel:alltirel:ott'e4zut.,:ri respect ts wealth, induced him—
%et ehe "time Was onl tporary—to adhere to his
It otlete amen h• •--( Hear
li
'l4ll,,"'en "rk with hear.) The Hon. Member for
eot4Posite, wh "ating cheered the Hon. and Learned
eis, • nes be ~o• en he said the imposition of the tax on
Ilde,a„ could Att. he word he cheered was " impo-
te look "ens .h. he die , A I
eti !eh re the moral and political
beit ,
presenterd into th•s uestion When
'raiittt wereeleh wer:
otndition of Ireland,g
and. the pros-
lheeietiN dteir"'edPefr:P4 t° that country, when the minds of
Iteeiset ;, (tutu political agitation to their own inte-
teseeis re'ts of the
people—( Hear, hear )—he
slthe hsalight hventege of else for House to relinquish the
esculde i• derived one cr two hundred thouand pounds,
eri^ v'
of
tr°ln the income:tax, and sties onvince
tl' iel"" ef and that they
were disposed to take an in-
h_ 4
t_ for
three, and whilst they were willing to
te„t s ears upon themselves, they were not
Zit, `r: be cotith.,'" the first time to Ireland, He thoueht
htkt, waetalesttantsrZiateudelz . the reciprocal feeling:. of a
e (hees,"; they were e
posed to regard with kind feel-
dis""e" and inferior position in
Altlaione',l?eat; t
etahe th "RAH y .
t4,Betthil°esuctse ePeedi es:ids% thatth he had no appre-
e
writ exhibition of talent and
• ere'ertle esiet,
,e•sote brim • • f.!roposit ion of th
eotintl hathd he nstenedmto
gratin nee,arvon
ti pleasure, but with no less
e asemi;eard the
gnificent answer of his Hon.
tesit bet er for Du*"
whose speech must be
• tatighser, eto the other side of the House.—
•)He Would, however, read for them