The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-19 00:00:00

THE WATEitT 00 BANQUET

The Dike of Wellington yesteriayulebrated the 30th anniver-
sary of the ever-memorable battle of Waterloo, by his customary
banquet at Apsley-house. In the course of the day above 700 con-
gratulatory visits were made to the Doke, at Aps!ey House, the
visitors including the members of the Royal Family, and the leading
aristocracy of this country, Lis well as foreign ministers.
His Grace was surrounded on the occasion by upwards of 70 of
his brave companions in arms; his Royal Highness Prince Albert
honouring the Noble Duke with his presence on the occasion.
The guests began to arrive as early as half-past six o'clock, and
even at that hour a very numerous assemblage had congregated in
the vicinity of the Nohle Duke's mansion for the purpose of wit.
noising the arrival of the noble and distinguished veterans forming
the remnant of those who maintained the independence of their
fatherland on the field of Waterloo.
His Royal Highness Prince Ally rt arrived shortly after seven
o'clock, attended by the Marquis of Exeter, Major-General Bowa-
ter, and Col. Bowles, the two latter of whom, as is well-known, are
Waterloo officers.
The preparations for the banquet were on the same scale of
princely magnificence which has bee❑ so often described in the
columns of this journal.

Covers were laid for upwards of SO.
The Duke of Wellington was scpported on the right by his
Royal Highness P.;tice AlLert and the Marquis of A r.glesey, and
on his left hand sat his Excellency Prince Castelcicala and his Ex-
cellency Count Kielmansegge.
The following noblemen and distinguished officers were of tl.e party :
—Field.'Marshal his Royal Highness Prince Albert, Colonel of
the Scots Fusilier Guards; his Excellency Prince Castelcicala,
the Neapolitan Minister; his Excellency Count Kielmansegge,
the Hanoverian Minister ; General the Marquis of Anglesey,
Colonel of the Royal Ilorse Guards (blue), K.G., G.C.8., and
G.C.H.; General the Right Hon. Sir James Kempt, Colonel of
the 2d Foot, G.C.8., and G.C. H. ; General Lord Strafford, Co-
lonel of the 29th Foot, G C. 8., and G.C.H. ; Licut..Gen. the
Right Hon. Sir F. Adam, Colonel of the `?lst Foot, G.C.B. and
G.C. M.G. ; Lieut.. Gen. Sir Edward Kerrison, Bart., Colonel of
the 14th Dragoons, G.C.B. and G.C.H.; Lieutenant. General
Sir Andrew Barnard, Colonel Commandant of the Rifle
Brigade, G.C.B. and G.C.H. ; Lieutenant-General Sir
Henry Arkew, late Grenadier Guards, C.B. ; Lieutenant-General
Sir George A. Quentin, K. C.H. ; Lieutenant-General Sir A.
Woodford, Colonel of the 40th Foot, K.C.B. and G.C. M.G.;
Lieutenant-General Lord Fitzroy Somerset, Colonel of the 53d
Foot, K. C. B. ; Lieutenant- General Sir James Macdonell, Colonel
of the 79th Foot, K.C.B. and K.C.H. ; Lieutenant. General J. W.
Sleigh, Colonel of the 9th Dragooas, C. 8.; Lientenant- General Sir
A. B. Clifton, Colonel of the Ist Dragoons, K.C.B. and K.C.H. ;

Major-General tha Hon. E. P. Lygon, Colonel of the 13th Dra-
goons, C. 8.; Major General Sir John G. Woodford, K.C.B. and
K. C. H. ; Major. General Sir George Scoell, K. C. 13. ; Major-General
Lord Saltoun, K.C.B. and G.C.H.; Major-General H. Wyndham;
Major-General Sir Edward Bowater, K.C.H.; Major. General H.
D'Oyley ; Major-General Sir A. Cameron, K.C.8.; 'Major-Gen.
Sir J. May, K.C.B. and K.C.H.; Major-General James Hay, C. 8.;
Major-General Sir H. D. Ross, K.C.8., Adjutant-General to the
Royal Artillery; Major-General John Webber, Smith, C. 8.;
Major. General Sir R. Gardiner, K.C.8., aa.d K.C.H. ; Major-
General I). Mercer, C. B. ; Colonel E. Cheney, C. B. ; Colonel
R. Llewellyn, C. 8.; Colonel A. Money, C.B. ; Colonel R. Eger.
ton. C.B. ; Colonel J. C. Bouchier ; Colonel J. B. Parker, C.B. ;

Colonel Campbell, C.B. ; Colonel J. Grant, C.B. ; Colonel T. W.
Taylor, C.B. ; Colonel F. Calvert, C.B. ; Colonel M. Childers,
C. 13. ; Colonel W. Drummond; Colonel A. Macdonald, C.B. ;

Colonel W. Rowan, C.B. ; Colonel G. Bowles ; Colonel Allix

Colonel Lotd J. F. 11. Somerset ; Colonel W. Walton ; Colonel J.
Martin ; Colonel Sir J. Thackwell, Colonel of the 3d Dragoons,
K.C.B. and K.C. H. ; Colonel E. Wildman ; Colonel M. Maxwell
Wallace, K.H. ; Colonel W. G. Moore; Colonel the Hon. G.
Anson; Colonel Lord Sandys ; Colonel Stawell ; Colonel C. P.
Ellis; Colonel the 119 n. G. Cathcart; Colonel T Wildman; Col.
Gurwood ; Colonel B. Drummond; Colonel F. R. Lascelles ; Col.
Bowers ; Colonel Dyneley, C. 8.; Colonel L. Bolder° ; Colonel
Robbins; Colonel J. Oldfield, K. IL ; Lieutenant-Colonel the Hon.
G. L. D. Darner; Lieutenant-Colonel H. Webster; Lieutenant-
Colonel the Hon. H. Montague; Lieutenant-Colonel E. Bourerie ;
Lieutenant-Colonel J. Cox; Lieutenant-Colonel G. Wilkins,
C.B. and C.H., &c.

The band of the Noble Duke's regiment were in attendance, and
played during dinner a selection of favourite music.

After the removal of the cloth, the customary toasts were pro-
posed, and the company separated about ten o'clock.
Since the last anniversary the following officers present at the
battle have died :—Lieutenant-General Lord Harris, Major-Gene-
ral Clement Hill, Major-General John Fremantle, Colonel Sir
Charles Webb Dance, K.H., Colonel Sir George Charles Hoste,
C. H., Colonel Edward Clive, Colonel Charles King, K.H., Colonel
J. Logan, Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Croker, Lieutenant Colonel
H. Baynes, K. H., Lieutenant-Colonel Alexander Burton, Lieu-

tenantiColc;nel Thomas Cox Kirby, Lieutenant-Colonel Lewis Car.

michael, &c. Several of these gallant officers wcre present at the
Duke's dinner last year.
The Duke of Wellington subsequently honoured Lady Fevers_
ham with his company at her Ladyship's ball in Belgraie-square.

THE WEATHER AND THE CROPS.
WEST Yosocsitier.—A week of the most splendid summer
weather possible has again wonderfully brought on all the
produce of the field and the garden, and greatly improved the
prospects for the harvest. The last four days have been of the
temperature of the end of July or beginning of August—perfect
forcing weather, and just what was wanted after the protracted
cold of the spring, and especially after the rains of the pre-
vious week. The appearance of the country is that of a gar-
den ; all the crops promise well, even the wheat, concerning
which there had been some fears. The spring corn, the roo
crop 4, and the grass are splendid.—Leeds Mercury.
SOUTH YORK SIII RE. —The weather for the last ten days
or a forteight has been everything that the farmer could
wish, and in that short period the face of the country has
wonderfully changed. The pasture and meadniw lands have
rapidly advanced to a state of the greatest luxuriance, and
in a few days the hay harvest will begin in good earnest in
this district. A plot of seeds has already beers cut in the
Doncaster field, which will no doubt speedily be followed
by others. The wheat crops have been much benefited by
the late rains and the warm weather which has supervened,
but we hear many complaints that the plants are thin and
irregular, and that there cannot bean average crop. The high
winds and frosty nights which prevailed so much in April
and even in May have, no doubt, done considerable injury to
the young wheats, and in many situations, we fear, there
is too much ground for the complaint alluded to ; but in
others, where the plants have been stronger and the situations
more sheltered, less injury has been inflicted, and if we are to
judge from present appearances there is great promise of future
plenty. Potatoes are generally vigorous in the stem, and all
other crops are equally promising.—Doncaster Chronicle.
BRECONSHIRE. —A correspondent writes—Real summer
weather has set in ; balmy breezes from the s••uth, and a con-
sequent increase of 14 or 15 degrees of atmospheric heat, will
soon force up vegetation to the seasonable point ; and we are
happy to say that there are unequivocal appearances of uni-
versal abundance.—Merthyr Guardian.
SOUTII DEVON. —Haymaking has become general in and
throughout the west of England, and the crop is heavy and
abundant. The country has a very luxuriant appearance,
gay with the most delightful blossoms. The prospects of
the corn harvest were never more cheering. Wheat and
barley are in ear, and the grain, to judge from present appear-
ances, will be unusually fine.—Exeter Gazette.
CU MBERLA N n.—liuring the week we have had an uninter-
rupted succession of beautiful summer weather. Several re-
freshing showers have fallen ; and in every direction the grow-
ing crops exhibit the most satisfactory evidence of the genial
season we are at present blessed with.—Carlisle Patriot.
GLOUCESTERSIIIILE.—Summer has at length burst upon us
with an effulgence quite dazzling, and with a sudden vehemence
of heat truly oppressive ; but let us be grateful that while the
habiliments of man and woman are voted burdensome unless
made of the most zephyr texture, nature all around us is
clothed in a dress of magnificent luxuriance. We seldom
rem.'mber a season of richer promise than the present. The
trees and hedgerows exhibit an unusual richness of foliage,
while the gardens, fields, and pastures teem with verdure and
beauty. The hay harvest has already commenced, and
the crop is most abundant and of the richest quality ; a state
of things much to be rejoiced in, not only by the breeders
of stock, but by the public at large, as likely
materially to affect the existing high prices of butcher's
meat, although speculators in old hay will sustain in many
cases a serious loss. Numbers who have been standing out
in the expectation of obtaining the exorbitant sum of from
61. to even 71. per ton for their hay, and several of whom
have refused 5/. 10s. and Si. 155.,
will perhaps have to subm
before long to a fall in price of nearly one-half. The whey
fields aim ist everywhere present a most gratifying appear
ance, and should everything go on well till autumn, the
harvest of 1845, in this neighbourhood at least, will be the
most abundant ever known. Peas also look well, and pota-
toes are likely to be an exceedingly plentiful crop. Beans
were in several places damaged by the frost, but they have
greatly improved, and are bursting into a profusion of bloom,
so that an average crop may be expected. The orchard
bloom was very gay this year, and the " knitting" has pro-
ceeded satisfactorily in some places ; but in others we have
heard that a partial failure is feared. Speaking generally of
the crops, appearances are calculated to lead to the encourag-
ing hope that the present year will be one of joy and gladness,
and unusual plenty to all classes of the community.—Glou-
easter Chronicle.

ACCIDENT ON TIIE GREAT
-WESTERN RAILWAY.

SLOUGH, WEDNEsnAv.--Major.General Pasley, the Government

inspector of railways, arrived here to-day, accompanied by Mr.
yesterday, previously to
Seymour Clarke, for the purpose of inspecting that portion of the
theirline o
beingve r which
throwntl) e carriagesembankment,
traversed
between the Langley
station and the Dog.kennel-hridge. We may state, without anti-
cipating the report which the Government inspector will make, that
no defects were discovered in the line of rails to have caused the ac-
cident.

The up-line was opened for carriages by one o'clock yesterday,
within about three hours after the accident occurred. The
down line, the rails of which had to be newly laid down for
a considerable distance, in consequence of the injuries they
had sustained, was cleared and opened In time for the
train which left Paddington for Bristol at five o'clock yester-
day afternoon. 13y dint of the extraordinary exertions of
upwards of 100 men, and a large number of horses, the
second-class carriage and the two first-class carriages which
were lying in the field of Mr. J. Nash, and the second-
class carriage which rested on the declivity, were dragged up the
embankment, 15 feet in height, and " righted" upon the rails,
by 1 o'clock this morning. They were then takeen on to Slough,
where they were transferred to the up-line, and thence conveyed
to Paddington, where they were inspected by Major-Gen. Finley
previously to his proceeding to Slough. The wheels of the luggage
van, which was the first carriage which got off the rails,
and which caused the whole of the mischief, underwent minute
examination. No defects, however, prior to the accident, were
discovered.
Sir Richard Rawlinson Vyvyan, the Member for Helston, who
was in the train yesterday at the time of the accident, and who was
severely cut upon the forehead, is fast recovering from the effects
of his injuries. Sir Richard still remains at the Royal Hotel, and
was visited last evening by his brother, from town. Dr. Strong
(who sustained an injury in the knee) and Mr. Bristow (whose
shoulder was dislocated), who still remain with their families
at the Royal Hotel, are convalescent. Mr., Mrs., and Miss
Shute, of Southwell- park, Tewkesbury, with a female
servant, who were in a first-class carriage which turned
twice over in descending the embankment, providentially es.
caged uninjured. They immediately proceeded with post-horses
to Tewkesbury.
To the extraordinary strength of both the first and second.class
carriages, which, though very much damaged and shattered, stood
the shock so as to enable the passengers to move freely in them,
may be attriouted the preservation of the lives of the numerous
passengers which wore placed in the most imminent peril. The
galvanic telegraph between Slough and Paddington, which had been
damaged, and rendered for the time utterly useless, by the wires
and posts having been severed and broken, was repaired during
the night, and by nine o'clock this morning it was again in full
operation. _ _ .

To give some idea of the extraordinary speed at which the
express train was proceeding at the moment of the upset of the
carriages, we may mention that the preceding mile was " timed"
by Mr. Bristow, of Haverforthvest, and it was gone over in. only
52 seconds, being at the rate of between 69 and 70 miles per hour.

IMPERIAL PA ILL I A.AI.!--_;liT.
"MUSE OF CO 'II,IIONS, .11vv? 18.
The SPEAKER took the Chsir shortly botire Four o'clock.
Mr. WILSON PATTEN moved, pursuant to notice, upon
the motion that the order made on Friday, the 13th
instant, that the report from the Commit tee on the
St. Helen's Canal and Railway Bill do lie en the
tab'e, be read, that the said order be discharged, that the 13111
be recommitted to the former Committee, and that that Com-
mittee have leave to sit and proceed, and report on Thursday.
—Agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. WILSON PATTEN, the Lords'
amendments to the Blackburn, Burnley, Accrington, and
Colne Extension Railway Bill were agreed to.
The Ercwash Valley Railway Bill was reported, and the Bill
ordered to be recommitted.
Molneux's Estate Bill was read a third time and passed.
Mr. WILSON PATTEN brought up the report on the
Liverpool and Manchester Railway Bill, which was ordered to
lie on the table.
On the motion of Mr. MUNDY, it was ordered that the
period for receiving the report on the Bermondsey Improvement
Bill should be extended to Wednesday, the .25th inst.
The Lords' Amendments to the Chester and Holyhead Rail-
way 13111 were agreed to.
N f.W ZEALAND.
Sir R. INGLIS presented a petition from a gentleman of
the name of Busby, el" New Zealand, praying that the rights
of the natives to the land they occupied might be respected in
any future legislation.
Mr. BARN A rtD presented petitions from the hand-loom
weavers of Kirk Eaton, praying for a Ten Hours' Bill.
Several similar petitions were also presented by different lion.
Members.
(In the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, the Lords' Amend-
ment to the Waterman's Company (Poor's and Endowment
Fund) 13i11 was agreed to. The Noble Lord also presented pe-
titions in favour of a ten hours' Bid.
The Grimsby D..cks Bill was reported.
Colorel WOCD brought ep the report on the Forth and
Clyde Navigation and Union Canal Junction BM, which was
ordered to lie on the table.
The Middlesborough and Pedear Railway Bill was reported.
The Totnes Markets and Waterworks Bill was reported.
IRISH COLLEGIATE EDUCATION BILL.
Mr. J. O'CONNELL presented petitions from various parts
of Ireland against the Colleges (Ireland) Bill.
THE TEN HOURS' BILL.
Lord J. MANNERS presented a petition from Huddersfield
in favour of the Ten hours' Bill.
Sir C. NAPIER presented a petition from Stockport to the
same effect.
Mr. MONCKTON MILNES presented similar petitions
from Gloucester.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD presented a petition from Hudders.
field in favour of the Ten hours' Bill.
THE BROAD AND NARROW GAUGE.
Mr. PACKE presented a petition from a place the name of
which we did not catch, in favour of the narrow gauge.
NEW MEDICAL BILL.
Mr. MONCKTON MILNES presented a petition against
th 36th clause of the New Medical Bill.
GENERAL BILLS.
Lord J. MANNERS wished to know whether the Bills
which stood for consideration to-night were to be taken before
the adjourned debate, for, if not, he thought that one day neat
week should be appropriate for the purpose, and perhaps the
Government would make a House on Wednesday with a view
of taking the discussion that evening.
Sir G. GREY thought it would be unwise to defer the
debate fir any consideration.
Sir R. H. INGLIS concurred in that opinion.
Sir J. GRAHAM thought that it would be following a
bad example to adopt the principle pointed out by the Noble
Lord. The business was already fixed for to-morrow and
Friday, and it could not, without great inconvenience, be altered.
COMMON LAW PROCESS (IRELAND.)
Mr. O'CONNELL said, that lie saw three Bills in the orders
of the day for amending the Common Law Process in Ireland.
He wished to know whether the Irish Judges had been con-
sulted on these Bills, and whether they were brought in on the
responsibility of Government?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, that they were not brought
in on the responsibility of Government. lie believed that the
Hon. Member for Cork had the care of them.
Mr. O'CONNELL then supposed that the Irish Judges
had not been consulted, and it would be better to get rid of
them.
Mr. Sergeant MURPHY said, that he was not the author
of the Bills, but they had been put into his hands from the
House of Lords. He had no fondness for them, and should be
as glad to wash his hands of them as the Hon. and Learned
Member could desire.
COMMON LAW PROCESS BILL.
Mr. Sergeant MURPHY moved the committal of this Bill.
Mr. O'CONNELL moved, as an amendment, that it be
committed that day six months.
After a few words from Mr. Sergeant MURPHY, the
amendment was agreed to without a division.
COMMON LAW PROCESS (IRELAND) BILL.
On the motion being put for the committal of this Bill,
Mr. O'CONNELL moved that it be committed that day
six months, which was agreed to.
COURT OF SESSION (SCOTLAND) PROCESS BILL.
On the motion being put for the committal of this Bill,
Mr. O'CONNELL moved that it be committed that day six
months, which was agreed to.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved the second reading of the
ARRESTMENT OF WAGES BILL (SCOTLAND).
The LORD ADVOCATE was understood to object to cer-
tain parts of the Bill.
Mr. DUNCOMBE said it was most objectionable that a
person, employing from 200 to 300 men, should be served on
Saturday night with as many summonses for the arrest-
ment of the wages of his workmen, and that in
the event of his refusing to comply with them,
that an action might be brought against him by the persons
suing. Such claims were often made by these persons when
not one shilling was owing to them by the workmen. No
course of this kind should be taken until the Court had given
judgment in the matter. Then one-half of the costs of such
proceedings should be paid by the pursuer, and the other half
by the person pursued, and that in the event of no debt being
due that the workman should be compensated by the person
snaking the false claim. He was of this opinion, because the
greatest extortion was practised on workmen, who would
rather pay the amount claimed than lose a day's work. The
arrestntent of wages in Scotland had been productive of the
greatest extravagance and of the greatest demoralisation, and
was opposed by both the employer and the employed.
There was no law of this sort in England, and why should there
be in Scotland ? He brought in a Bill for the assimilation of
the law of the two countries, and had very much regretted
that he withdrew it. fie would leave the matter now entirely in
the hands of the Government, but would not be satisfied that
the Bill should be put off from day to day, and that legislation
on the subject should be postponed.
Sir J. GRAHAM said it was a subject most difficult to be
adjusted. He had already given the opinion of Sir William
Rae, which was against the law for the arrestment of wages,
but at the same time Sir William Rae thought it might be
dangerous to interfere, and that the working classes would
themselves be the first to feel the evils of this interference.
He had no objection on the part of the Government to make
some modifications of the Bill (as we understood), so as to
render it more satisfactory.—[The Hon. Baronet was more
than usually indistinct.]
Mr. RUTHERFORD was understood to approve of the
course taken by the Right Hon. Baronet. He thought it ab-
surd that Gentlemen who were entirely ignorant of Scotland
and Scotch affairs should school Scotch Members on this sub.
ject.—( A laugh.)
Captain WEM YSS would not have said one word upon this
Bill but for what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet. He
paid 400/. a week to '2OO workmen, and he never made any
deduction from their wages. The power of attaching wages
would have the effect of encouraging shopkeepers who gave
credit to profligate workmen, to the prejudice of the families
of the latter.
The Bill was then read a second time,
RAILWAY CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION BILL
(SCOTLAND).
Mr. LABOUCHERE then asked how long it was proposed
to defer the discussion on the Railway Clauses Consolidation
Bill ( Scotland).
The LORD ADVOCATE replied, that day week.
Mr. LABOUCHERE wished the lime to have an
opportunity of discussing the principle of the Bill.
lie could never obtain an answer from her Majesty's
Government, aye or no, whether they assented to the principle
or not. What, he would ask, was the reason for postponing it
for a week t He confessed he saw no reason for doing so.
If the Noble and Learned Lord would bring it on to-morrow,
he would be quite ready to,discuss it.
The LORD ADVOCATE then appointed to bring it on
to-morrow.
Sir it. PEEL said that the only reason he had for postpon-
ing it was to give room for the adjourned debate, and thus
obviate any complaint that might be made of unfair advantage
being taken. Ile would not then pledge himself to any defi-
nite course respecting the further progress of the Bill until he
had heard the discussion.
Mr. WARBURTON thought the whole conduct of
the Bill so peculiar as to require further considera-
tion. It was first brought in without the clause ; in its pro-
gress through the House the clause was surreptitiously in-
serted ; the irregularity was discovered, the Bill was withdrawn,
it was re- introduced without the clause, and sent up
to the higher House. Subsequently it was returned, the clause
having been again inserted by their Lordships up stairs. He
hoped, therefore, that either the clause would be withdrawn
altogether, or another Bill be brought in by his Noble and
Learned Friend.
Mr. BROTHERTON doubted whether it was not an in-
fringement of their privileges for the House of Lords to insert
a clause which they had previously discarded.
Lord J. RUSSELL suggested that the House would have
an opportunity of discussing the propriety of the clause when
in Committee on the I ill.
Mr. RUTHERFORD thought the withdrawal of the clause
very irregular.
Sir R. PEEL considered the objection to the clause very
reasonable. A rule applicable to England was equally tenable
towards Scotland, and for that reason he had no reluctance in
saying he was unfavourable to its insertion.
Mr. LABOUCHERE inquired whether, then, the Govern-
ment disagreed with the conduct of the Upper House ?
S\IALL DEBTS BILL.
On the SPEAKER'S suggestion, this Bill was ordered to be
read this day six months.
Mr. FITZROY KELLY then observed that he had con-
sulted with various parties in the country on the subject of
small debts, and he should be ready to bring in a new Bill,
containing amendments, on Monday next.
UNIVERSITY COLLEGE (SCOTLAND. )
Mr. ELLICE, jun., said, if it was convenient, he would wish
to be informed whether the Government intended to oppose or
support the Bill ?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM was understood to say that he was
not in a condition to state whether the Government intended
to oppose the Bill or not.
NEW ZEALAND—ADJOURNED DEBATE.

On the reading of the order of the day for resuming the de-
bate on Mr. C. Buller's motion respecting New Zealand,
Captain ROUS said it was riot his fault that the subject had
not been brought before the House at an earlier period.
His object was to give the Directors of the New Zealand Com-
pany an oportunity of explaining the charges which he and
others had brought against them. He begged to compliment
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman for the able speech which he
made last night on bringing forward the subject, and regretted
that he had attacked the Colonial-office in the person of a gen-
tleman of pure philanthropy. He said that the New Zea-
landers were cannibals and notorious liars, and that he was
desirous of bringing them to a state of civilisation.—( A laugh. )
His Hon. Friend had given them terrible descriptions of the
New Zealanders, which they did not deserve. The other day
he met Mr. Browne, who informed him that last year he saw
400 acres of wheat entirely cultivated by the natives, and they
were able to sell the produce at 2s. per bushel. He stated
this to show the state of civilisation at which they had arrived.
The character of the East Anglians, in the time of Julius
Ctesar, would correspond with that given by the Hen. and
Learned Gentleman of the New Zealanders of the present
day. The Honourable and Gallant Member then went
into a detail of various negotiations which had, from
time to time, been made with the New Zealanders on
the part of this country for commercial purposes.
In 1834 they received a British flag from Captain
Lambert, of (as we understood) her Majesty's ship Trafalgar.
When the New Zealand Company was formed in 1838, the
former society was merged into the new one, and 40,0001. worth
of the new trade was made over to the old shareholders. Now

he slmuld be glad to know what consideration was given for
the 40,000/., for if he was not grievously mistaken, at the time
the new Company was es'ablished, the original society was not
possesscdof lard in New Zealand that was wt r.h more than 100/.
in the market. When Colonel Wakefield went out, twelve ships
followed him, which carried out 216 cabin passengers and 900
labourers ; and it was a singular circumstance that these ships
did not know their destination till they called at an interme-
diate port. 'These cabin passengers were persons who had been
secusiomed to the luxuries of life in their own country, and were
landed on a barren land, amidst a population of savages, with
scarcely any preparation for their reception. It was most ex-
traordinary what negotiations had been entered into with
human beings of the lowest scale in existence, with respect to the
purchase of land between the 41st and 43d degree of latitude—
( A laugh )—just as if they knew the meaning of such terms.
Mr. Carrington, the agent of the New Zealand Company, said
that the purchase-money was never paid, and that the promises
of the New Zealand Company were looked upon with the
greatest distrust. The nature of the ar isles that passed in
these negotiations was rather strange, comprising knives,
spoons, combs, and no less than 144 Jews'-harps. In 1839
Lord Normanby appointed Captain Hobson governor of
10
1,1)7
colony, and sent nut orders, graphic in composition, but
very sound in prineiple. (The lion. Member here read ex-
tracts from the document in question, which, from his posi-
tion, his back being turned to the galley y, were w hilly
inaudible. ) If they, instead of issuing such choice instruc-
tions, had laid an embargo on the Company's ships. and not
put—to use a homely expression—the cart before the horse,
and if the Governor, instead of withdrawing to an uninhabited
corner of the island, had settled where the great mass of the
population were collected, they would not have struck
so fatal a blow to the vitality of the colony.
By the treaty of Waitanga the natives were given all the rights
and privileges of Englishmen, and a right and title to their
lands, but the Governor turned round and said to them, "You
shall not sell your land to an Englishman nor to a native, but
to me. at 75 per cent.," so that it seas absurd to say that they
had endowed them with the privileges of Briti,h subjects.
What right had they to exact such a monstrous tax as this
from the unfortunate natives? Then the Government could
not grant lands to the New Zealand Company which they
themselves did not possess. No one in that House, or in the
country, could understand the diffieulties which any one,
placed in a responsible situation in New Zealand, had to con-
tend with. When Captain Fitzroy went out he found the
treasury bankrupt, the colonial accounts neglected, that the
English had fled before the natives in an engagement, and
that 5,600/., out of a debt of 25,000/., were owing to Govern-
ment officers. Placed then in such an embarrassing position,
he (Captain Rous) considered that he had acted to the best of
his ability—that he could not have acted better than he had done
for the public good. He had another charge against the New
Zealand Company respe sting the harbour duties which they
had imposed, and which had had the effect of driving ships
from the ports of the colony to those of the Society Islands,
and, besides, no country being so well adapted for smuggling,
tobacco was sold by many of the natives at a shilling a pound,
whilst honest shopkeepers could scarcely sell it at 2s. It was so
with spirits, which were easily smuggled into the colony, and
sold at reduced prices, so great were the facilities offered to
smugglers. Would it not be more just to abolish duties
which gave so inefficient a protection to the revenue, and to
adopt in their place a property-tax. Capt. Fitzroy was blamed
for not bringing the parties who took a part in the Wairou mas-
sacre, to justice. Why he did net arrive in New Zealand
until a year after that occurrence. As he could not try the
parties he thought it best to virtually acquit them. He believed
that Capt. Fitzroy would gain golden opinions before he died,
for his conduct in New Zealand. Then the New Zealand
Company had received a large sum of money illegally, for they
disposed of great quantities of land, and realised large sums of
money before their charter was granted. They stated that
their capital was 300,000/., whereas it did not exceed 160,0001.
His next charge was equally serious, because it was their duty
as Gentlemen to protect those who suffered from it.
(The Gallant Member then read a statement published by
the New Zealand Company, stating that emigrants on their
arrival in the colony would find the officer of the Company
ready to give them useful advice and employment in the ser-
vice of the Company.) Was not this a strong inducement to
ablebodied men to leave this country? Instead, however, of
carrying out the promises which they put forward the agent of
the Company found that he could not give those who had gone
out sufficient employment, and was obliged to send them twenty
miles into the interior for the purpose of being employed in the
clearing of land; but they returned at the end of a week weary
of the employment to which they had been sent, and means
had to be taken to obtain suitable employment for them from
landholders who were paid by the Company for this
purpose. These then were his charges against
the Company, and all he 'could say was that if
they were unfounded—that the documents which he had read
were not true, he should be happy to make an ample apology
for having brought them before the House. With respect to
the report of the House of Commons, he had given notice of a
motion to the effect—that the Company had acted irregularly
in disposing of land to emigrants in the manner they did. He
was sure neither side of the House would allow the rights and
privileges of the British Crown to be trampled upon, and he
therefore relied with confidence upon their agreeing with him,
that a factious party like the New Zealand Company ought not
to be allowed to trample and tyrannise over those whom they
had unfortunately got:into their control.
Mr. AGLIONBY would not deny that he had some pecu-
niary interest in the New Zealand Company, and perhaps it
would be thought unbecoming in him to take part in the de-
bate, but he could assure the House that the considerations
which had induced him to join the New Zealand Society were
far from being of a pecuniary nature. He had allied himself
with the Society at the earnest entreaties of a number of re-
spected friends, who had represented to him the good the co-
lony was likely to do to a number of poor persons in this coun-
try, and having been now for three er four years connected
with the Society, he could state that he had never for one
moment regretted his alliance with it, because he believed lie
had all along been associated with an excellent body of ho-
nourable and high-minded men, for the purpose of carrying
Out what he believed to be a most benevolent
object.—(Hear, hear.) The Gallant Officer had stated, in his
usually clear and straightforward manner, the opinion he had
formed of the proceedings and conduct of the New Zealand
Company, and had no less frankly added that all he wanted
was an explanation. He (Mr. Aglionby) fully believed him,
and he could assure the Gallant Captain that his complaints
were, one and all, founded on misapprehension; but the present
was neither a convenient nor an equitable time for him to enter
into a vindication of the New Zealand Company. If he there-
ffore merely now gave a plain and flat denial of the facts the
Gallant Member had stated, it was from no disrespect for the
character and integrity of the Gallant Officer, but because
if he were to attempt any vindication he should be met by
unpleasant and unfair assertions frem some Hon. Gentlemen
who might have received information on the subject from the
same source as the Gallant Officer, which would no doubt be
followed by counter assertions from the Hon. Gentlemen con-
nected with the New Zealand Company, and thus the debate
would resolve itself into a petty squabble of a personal nature.—
( Hear, hear.) But most of the points to which the Gallant
Captain had alluded had bean fairly investigated before a proper
tribunal, and that investigation had resulted in the entire and
unequivocal exoneration of the New Zealand Company. At the
proper time, however, even in that House, which appeared
to him (Mr. Aglionby) a most inconvenient tribunal for
entering into details, he should be prepared to enter into full
and minute explanations, but this could only be done by him
when the House felt disposed to go into committee on the
matter. The Gallant Officer had evidently a misconcep-
tion, too, of the financial circumstances of the New Zealand
Company, or the Gallant Officer would never have ventured
to make so bold and sweeping an assertion as that the Company
had swindled large bodies of people out of their money and out
of their land. He did not know where the Gallant Officer had
collected his details, but he wished the Gallant Officer, before
going into committee, would refer to the various papers and docu-
ments which had been published on the subject, and he was sure
the Gallant Officer would find that he had fallen into error.
But he could excuse the Gallant Officer, because it was quite
evident to him that the Gallant Officer had been misled by
parties who were in the habit of making Members of that house
vehicles for their own misrepresentations. Dawn to the time
of Captain Hobson's arrival in the colony there was perfect
harmony between the colonists and the natives ; so that they
were, in fact, as one family. It was not yet too late to restore
that state of things; but it could only be effected by an entire
abandonment of the principles which have governed hitherto
the colonial department of the Government. The colonists
had suffered much. He hoped it was not too late to place them
again in a state of security and prosperity. He implored the
Government and the House not to go now into minute
questions, but to consider the best means of promoting the
interests of the settlers and the natives. He implored
the House for God's sake to listen to the evidence on both sides,
and not to be governed by the testimony of one party alone.
Before he sat down he would refer to the case of Dr. Evans,
who memorialised the Colonial office, praying to be informed
as to the position in which those settlers would be placed who
had made purchases from the natives? The only answer he
received was, that the Ministers were about to send out a new
governor with full instructions. Was that a sufficient answer
to an Englishman who had embarked all his property in settling
his family in that country?—(Hear, bear.) He again im-
plored the Government to reconsider their policy, and to take
measures to promote the prosperity of the colony, and the wel-
fare of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
When the Hon. Member sat down, several Members rose to
address the House, but upon repeated calls for the" new Mem-
ber," who rose at the same time, they gave way to
Mr. BARKLY (of Leominster), who said, that although
he had no present interest in the Company, he shared with every
Member of the House in an anxious desire to see our colonies
flourish, and the system of misgovernment which had so much
depreciated their importance put an end to.—( Hear, hear.)
He believed that the object of the New Zealand Company
was to render a most valuable service to the country.—( Hear.)
Bus ho did not think that any just complaint could be made
against Lord Stanley or those who co-operated with him in the
Colonial-office.—( Hear.) He was well acquainted with the
mode of doing business in that office, and he could speak for
the urbanity, politeness, and attention of the Noble Lot d,
and the Right Hon. Gentleman the Under-Secretary for the
Colonies. Ho approved in the main of the Noble Lord's
colonial policy, but he must express his regret, that the in-
consistent policy which was occasionally pursued at home, was
followed in respect to our colonial possessions. The same
policy which at ene time encouraged the agriculturists to hope for
a perpetual protection, and another time induce the free-traders
to expect the speedy abolition of all protection was followed by
giving ;to Canada a free importation of corn to this country.
He would not undertake the defence of the New Zealand Com-
pany as a merely commercial body, but he thought that the
fate of a large body of our countrymen, settled in a distant
land, had a claim upon the grand inquest of the nation.—
( Hear, hear). He had no wish to attach unnecessary blame
to Captain Fitzroy, but he must beg to call the attention of
the House to the deplorable change wbich had taken place in
the feelings of the nation since the arrival of that officer in the
colony—the events which followed the massacre of Wairou—to
the unredeemable paper currency, and to unpunished murders.
They ought to give the inhabitants of New Zealand something
more of what resembled an Englishman's idea of a representa-
tive institution, instead of the council that at present existed.
—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the settlers, they ought to
send them a sufficient force to set their minds perfectly at ease
with respect to themselves and their families, or make them
friendly with the natives. With regard to the natives, there
ought not to exist the slightest feeling against them ; he would
have them treated with firmness, but at the same time with
the greatest kindness. They ought to be treated as spoiled
children. He did not admit that the provisions of the treaty
should extend to the middle or southern islands
altogeth ei
ors
sf ai
God
nmo
da irtyt
a,e dnhdteot v
‘hb,
eaes
egnounoitvt eeornes
exi
oeonmf po tf
thoseftrhoemw
inhabitantshito.
Co, which were
1 sil
dtle. r re edosupt
oughts
hcaltt
ttnilettict'eoalmbl e the first object in the colonisation of an island. He
had some experience of missionaries, but the intolerance of
utonebdeucaetnetdirly men,edepaesnmdeadnv
upon. He
missionarieseg
were, ought not
that was due to them as ministers of the Gospel, but "
buthtehewmoualldl
justly suppress their desire to interfere in secular affairs.—
( Hear, hear.) Worldly aggrandisement was manifesting itself
in too great a degree in the grants
of land. With regard to
the Company the Government
ought to be prepared to buy
up all that would be sufficient togive
security to those who
raens(ildmedakienitNaeuwbZuemablale nd.They ought to increase the grant,
instrument in raising New Zealand to
that high and important position amonr, the nations of the
world, which it was destined to fill, when"' perhaps the institu-
tions of this country may be indebted to the perseverance and
gratitude of the descendants of the New Zealanders. —( Hear,
hear.) There were few subjects on which he would have fell
it expedient to have troubled the House for such a length o
time; he thanked the House for its attention.—(Cheers.)

Mr. HOPE made a few observations in explanation, aftett
which
Sir R. INGLIS said that though he was not one of those
who were in the habit of complimenting young Members, he
could not rise without congratulating the Hon. Member -ho
had just sat down, on the tone, temper. and talent of tins
speech which he had just made.—( Hear, hear.) He could not,
at the same time, say that he should coucur with him in the
conclusions which he had drawn, though lie liked the manner
in which he arrived at them. le would state how much he
differed from the Hon. Member for Cockermouth, and still more
from his Hon. and Learned Friend, to whose speech he listened
with perfect attention yesterday evening. The principal error
in the speech of his Hon. Friend, and upon which he (Sir R.
Inglis) held that the falsity of his conclusions entirely depended,
was the assumption that when they were dealing with the New
Zealanders, they were dealing with people with whom it was
notsei v
epsososni bal e n
yn us rp
eficti
etshoe
ft.
ettihe ualiei
toyi.d eof
He
dEnglanddescribed
edt shouldheth
as pu i
savagesthm-
and cannibals, who, from their degraded state of ignorance,
were totally incapable of appreciating the value of land, and
truly incompetent to make a bargain, which they themselves
professed to respect and desired to preserve. He was not
prepared to come to the conclusion to which the
Honourable Member wished to lead the House, that every
acre over which the natives had not carried the spade or ;dough
was as much the property of the New Zealand Company, or of
any first comer, as if that Company were purely and absolutely
the inlinbitants. Several }ears ago, when the question was first
brought forward, he hebeved in 1838, he (Sir R. Inglis) was
one of those who contended that they had no more right to pro-
fess to colonize new Z...a1an.1 than they had a right to prof. ss to
colonize the kingdom of France. He made that statement
under no anticipation that any Honourable Member wool I fake
that illustration, and adopt it as his own, as his Honourable
Friend did last night. From the moment when, whether
right or wrong, they recognized the independence of New
Zealand, from that moment they had no right to deal with it as
the New Zealand Company now wished to deal with it. The
first discovery of a country was sufficient to give the nation
which had discovered it the right of pre-occupancy as against all
other nations, but never had it been contended that they had a
right to claim property as against the inhabitants of the coil.
flow different was that from the doctrine which his Honourable
Friend laid down last night? lie said that the New Zealanders
had no idea of the sale of property, and then be rather incon-
F istently proceeded to maintain the statements of the New
Zealand Company with respect to the purchase which they had
made from those whom, by his admission, knew nothing of the
sale of property. It was very convenient for the New Zealand
Company to say that the natives had no knowledge of property ;
but if that be true with respect to the area which still remained
open, surely it must be equally true with respect to
the property which it had become possessed of. The
whole of the property purchased, consisting of some millions,
had been obtained for the sum of 7,388/. 7s. 7d. The price
which they sold it at, amounted to 128,1361. These were the
protectors of the natives of New Zealand ; these were the per-
sons who complained of the missionaries for instigating the
natives against them, and of Captain Fitzroy for taking their
part. With respect to the allegations made against the
missionaries, he thought they could be met as easily as they
were made. ;le agreed with the Hon. Member for Ceominster
that the glory of God was the main object to be regarded in
the conversion of these unfortunate creatures, and, he believed,
that that was a truth recognised by the great bulk of Mein-
hers on both sides of the House. He would now ask any man
to state what was the difference in the state of New Z-aland
when it was visited by Captain Cooke, or even later,
in 1814, and its present condition ?—( Hear, hear.)
So recently as 1814 a white man could not land on it, or walk
alone in the country without endangering his life; while, on
the other hand, in the past year, the Bishop of New Zealand
had walked 300 miles in the visitation of his diocese, and in a
situation where it was impossible to procure a conveyance, and
during all that time he experienced the greatest hospitality_
hospitality that would do honour to the most civilised people in
the world.—(Hear, hear.) What, then, he would ask, could
this change be ascribed to but the influence of the missionaries?
In the northern island there were even at present 33,000
Christians, 14,000 of whom were attending school, and there
were-no less than 3.200 of them regular communicants. He
therefore thought that he had made out a case in their favour
which entitled them to the gratitude of the House for those
glorious results. It had been said by the Hon. Member for
Liskeard that the missionaries took the lead in speculations for
the purchase of land, and these were Church of England mis•
sionaries. He ( Sir R. Inglis) was not in a position to say
much of the missionaries of the Church of Rome, as their resi-
dence there had been but very recent; nor had he sufficient
information to enable him to do so ; but there was this impor-
tant difference between them and the Wesleyan missionaries
on the one hand, and the missionaries of the Established
Church on the other, that the former were removable from
station to station, while the latter settled down, with their
wives and families, in a particular locality. There was, there-
fore, he contended, a necessity thus imposed upon them to in-
vest a certain portion of their salaries in the purchase of land.
It had been stated that 196,000 acres were possessed
by the missionaries; but when every deduction was
made, it would be found that their portico was
less than one-half of what the Government allowed
to the other missionaries in New South Wales. The greater
part, toe, of this land W 23 described (and he believed most ac-
curately) as nothing better than moving sand. This led him
to the proportion of cultivated and uncultivated land in New
Zealand. It had been stated that there were 713,000,000
of acres altogether in the country, of which 60,000,000
were cultivable ; but he apprehended that that state-
ment could not be sustained by the actual survey.
He had it on the authority of an eminent na-
turalist who had visited the country, that the proportion of cul-
tivable land was far less than in any other country in the world;
in fact that there was not more than five per cent. of the
whole island that could be cultivated. Supposing therefore,
that Mr. Fairbairn or Mr. Taylor hail received a grant of
5,600 acres of this kind of land, he did not c,insider that they
had received a greater amount of remuneration than they
would have received from Government, had they been situated
in any other part of our South Australian colonies. He
thought that they were entitled to be supported. There never
was any irregularity proved against them, and he thought they
did not deserve the running fire which bad been kept up
against them in the speech cf the Hon. Member fur Liskeard.
With respect to the son of Mr. W. Clarke he did not consider
that he was entitled to the censure which had been passed
upon him, unless it was for the atrocious crime of being a young
man. He thought that no one could he got so well qa .litied to
fill his situation. He had now to thank the House for the in.
dulgence which had been given to him in making these re-
marks in defence of the missionaries. He would now, therefore,
say to the House that if there was one duty more incumbent
on them than another it was that they should not avail them-
selves of their position—that position which had been conferred
on them from on high for other purpo,es—to sanction an inva-
sion of the lands of a weak and defenceless people.
Throughout the speech of the Hon. Member for Liskeard
there was an utter disregard of all parties concerned, with the
exception of the New Zealand Company, and of a certain por.
tion of their fellow-subjects who were in New Zealand. He
was willing to admit there could be few public companies con-
taining a greater number of respectable names ; and he ad-
mitted, also, that they were not jobbers in the market, as the
shareholders of other companies were. They were not gam-
bling or jobbing speculators. He thought that the gentlemen
who composed that company had no unfair object in view
in joining it but to gain an honourable profit ; and he
was sure they had no wish to invade the rights of others. He
was not, therefere, one of those who wished to run down the
New Zealand Company. lie would now briefly advert to an-
other subject which he had already slightly glanced at, namely,
tho right of the natives to these lands. He had it on the autho-
rity of one who had travelled among them, that there was no
people in the world who possessed a more keen sense of the
rights of property. They had, he might almost say, a here-
ditary sense of those rights. Was he to be told, then, that those
people, who had a name for every hill, every valley, and every
mountain in the country, that they had no sense
of the rights of property ? He would beg leave to read
a petition from Mr. Busby, a missionary, which he was pre-
vented from doing that evening, when he had presented it to
the House. (The Hon. Member here read the petition.) He
(Sir R. Inglis) could not understand, after the unbiassed state-
ments of these respectable authorities, the grounds which had
been put forward by certain parties that the natives had no
right to the land of which they disposed, or that from their
ignorance they should be deprived of its full value.—( Hear.)
He had, in conclusion, to to thank the House for the kind in-
dulgence which they always extended to him, but especially to.
night, while he went through those minute details which he
felt bound to refer to. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by
giving his decided negative to the resolutions brought forward
by the Hon. Member for Liskeard.
netio,
Mr. HAWES said it was not often that colonial subjects oc-
cupied the attention of the House, and he was glad to find
hthoatticet.haes pftreisnevnotivoendenoht only adcomeso prominently
onftltyhe Before
ltraeiey theirin
e
the
New Zealand, but indeed all their colonial policy. In taking a
prinprcoip
part in the discussion of this question he would not be influenced
by any party factions or motives. Before he went further, he
would address himself to one or two points on which the Right
Honourable Baronet had spoken in a manner calculated to
excite prejudice, if not delusion. He had said that the New
Zealand Company had put 121,000/. into their pockets, having
sold land for 123,00'1., which they had purchased for little more
than 7,0001. But it should be remembered that the 7,000/.
was not to be considered the value of the land ; subsequent
to their purchase, large sums of money had been expended
upon surveys, roads, bridges, and other improvements,
ail calculated to give a value to the land. He
had had a paper put that evening into his hand containing but
a sketch of the amount which the Company had expended upon
emigration, transmission of ships, surveys, public works, wages,
and trusts of churches and parochial charities. The sum there
mentioned was 377,0001., but he had been assured, and he felt
convinced of the tiuth of the statement, that that estimate was
200,000/. short of the sum actually spent by them. Again the
Right Hon. Baronet said that nothing was mentioned by his
Friend the Member for Liskeard, but the rights of the New
Zealand Company. That assertion, he must be permitted to
say, was not correct ; other, and equally sacred interests, had
been discussed, but even if the charge were true, which he em-
phatically denied, his Hon. Friend had but considered
the interests and rights of the New Zealand Company in-
volved in the right of forming missionary establish-
ments in their colony. He thought the Colonial-office had
made serious errors, and to them he would now call, and, if
possible, keep the attention of the House. A report had been
laid on the table, expository of the course pursued by the
Government towards the colony in question. In the spirit
and intentions of that report he entirely concurred ; but
changes had taken place, and changes of such a character as
precluded the applicability of the recommendations of the
report to the altered circumstances of the colony. The speech
of the Under-Secretary of State had given him no satisfaction.
He had expected that the Hon. Gentleman would have, at
i
least, addressed himself to the evils of the colony, and admit-
ting, have shadowed out some means of remedying them.
i incumbentember
for o n
Liskeard hm to
iia
dn odt c
—( Hear, hear.) A part, however,
of h
tithat thewas i
New Zealand as debased. What he said was,
s o
e they
were not as morose, vitiated, or unsociable as the North Ame-
rican Indians, they were inferior in the arts of i Tcv ization and
of war. But even these admissions of deficiency
he turned into
arguments in their favour. They were easily to be engaged in
trade, and showed great capacity for all thes art of civilisation.
Such 'ens the present state of the colony. But fewa
since it had been prosperous. He had before him the
aee(ynteahrats
of the ships that left the harbour in the year 1844, at which
period the inhabitants were thriving and its trade increasing.
But, by a dispatch of Captain Fitzroy, dated October 15,
he found the very reverse. It was there stated that there was
no export, no funds. No titles to the land were issued.
The salaries were several months in arrear, and
the local Government had no resources. --(Hear.)
Surely, when such an alarming change had occurred within a
short period, the House ought to have heard from the Govern-
ment the reasons or the remedies for the decline. Nothing,
however, had been given. The entire speech of the Under Office
Secretary was absorbed in a defence of the Colonial —a
petty defence of the pettiest officers
of the colony.— ( Hear. )
As the Government had not ventured to touch upon these
points, he would himself discuss them. It was the actual in-
fluxhad been the prime and
of settlers into the colony that
original
president,and in consequence of the influx
Busby was appointed d
been obliged to seek the interference
of questionable settlers, had
that • dthe
t home. At perm missionaries,
of the Government a.
of whom he wished to speak with all respect, but who, he mu-t
say, did not deserve the credit which the. Right Honourable
Baronet had accorded them, had oppo.ed colonization generally.
~ The internal wars," said Mr. Busby, " had depopulated the
country." The missionaries could, therefore, hay.

,infused but little of that spirit of Christianity
which should have pre-eminently distinguished them. Mr.
BuGby's plan was then a confederation of native chiefs. Such
a system was absurd, because the English would have virtually
retained their Governor under the guise of a native ruler. New
Zealand never was an independency. The British Crown had
invariably asserted its supremacy there. The Company had
but exercised the right to which all Englishmen were entitled
of colonising an uninhabited and dependant State. The
Church Missionary Society had been the first to oppose this in-
disputable right, opposed as it had always been to colonisation
generally. And why ? Because they had become large pos-
sessors of land, and, as interested parties, they ought not to
have interfered with a Company which had been the first to in-
troduce British sovereignty into the islands. Such interference
was unwise and unfortunate. If such was the state of things,
the Government were not to be thanked for interfering ;
they had been driven to it, it was their own iu-
terest, and, after resisting. and refusing all demands, they
had been at length compelled to interpose. When the Right
Hon. Baronet had said that a State larger than Great Britain,
yet containing not more than 100,000 persons, was so fully
occupied as not to have any waste lands, he could surely not be
serious. The colony comprised an extent of 78,000,000 of
acres, of which the New Zealand Company originally possessed
themselves of 20,000,000 acres. That right they had, how-
ever, waived, when the Government asserted the sovereignty
of the island, and established its rule there. It therefore must
be admitted by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Under-Secre-
tary of State, that the waste lands were either native right, or
vested in the Crown.

Mr. HOPE—No, no.
Mr. HAWES—Oh ! If the Hon. Member denied that the
title was vested in the Crown, the whole conduct of the Go-
vernment was manifestly unjustifiable. Some years ago, when
supporting a measure which comprehended the whole gist of
the propositions now advanced, he (Mr. Hawes) totally differ-
ing in politics, as he ever had, from the Hon. Member, divided
in a minority, and he found on reference to the Parliamentary
Votes on that oeeasion the names of H. Baring, G. W. Hope,
and W. E. Gladstone—the question which those Members, in
unison with him, supported, being the self-same as that now
propounded by his Friend the Hon. Member for Liskeard. In
1842 a similar vote was given by the Hon. Member, but in
1845 he chose to forget that conduct, and showed a
vacillation of which he could not have believed him capable.
That was the information he had received, and which he had
endeavoured to obtain from authentic sources. To this mo-
ment the affairs of the Company had been left divided and in
eonfirsion, and they had not received one single farthing under
the agreement up to the present hour. He was induced to
ask, what authority had interix.sed the difficulty which had led
to the present state of affairs in that colony? If the object of
the Government was a single one, why had it not put things
in order ? He was persuaded that the whole of the bad ma-
nagement of New Zealand was, more or less, to be ascribed to
the home Government. It followed from the system of colo-
nial legislation. They had too much to attend to, and they
evinced a coldness to listen with interest to the concerns of
parties in the colonies. That was a great fault, but nothing
else could be expected from the present system of colonial ma-
nagement. The home Government were imperfectly ac-
quainted with colonial usages and wants, and it was impossible
that any other result could happen than what had already oc-
curred in New Zealand. He was one of those who some time
ago associated with other gentlemen, generally to promote co-
lonisation, and they intended to promote a superintendence over
the affairs of the colony, considering that that was a
point to which their attention could be directed
with advantage.—(Hear, hear.) They made application to the
Government of the day for the legislative sanction to ferm
themselves into an independent association, but were refused
because they were not a joint-stock company. The present
New Zealand Company were actually forced to become specu-
lators in the land, and it was the Government who compelled
them toit. They had proposed to the Government to become
an incorporated company, with large and liberal views, similar to
those which had been founded in America years ago, and
which had flourished ever since. The colony, of New Zealand
would never submit for a moment to the injustice of the Go-
ment at home if they possessed power to defend and assert
their rights. As an instance of how colonies flourished when
they were placed beyond the immediate reach and control of
the home Government was the possessions in the East Indiei.
The East India Company was a chartered association under an
Act of Parliament, and the colony over which they had juris-
diction was notorious for having enjoyed a long and almost
uninterrupted course of prosperity. He did not know a single
instance of a colony in which the Government had interfered
which was not brought into distress and danger and ultimately
to ruin. What was the cause of the present distress in New
Zealand? Similar causes led to similar results, and
the constant interference on the part of the Govern-
ment was the primary cause. It was impossible
properly to govern people at so great a distance, of whose
wants and necessities nothing or but little was known. It was
proposed to send out a new Governor to New Zealand, unfet-
tered by instructions from home. He was glad to hear it, for
instructions to New Zealand Governors had led to a vast deal
of laborious trifling. He was not, however, pleased with a
Governor being placed under the control of the Colonial-office,
and he was sure the country would never be satisfied with such
an appointment. He believed that New Zealand presented an
opportunity for establishing a municipal institution, and thus
laying the basis of a constitutional government, which, when left
to itself, would realize a greater amount of property than could be
looked forward to from any other source. The best had not yet
been done—the proper course had not yet been taken. If the posi-
tion of these extensive islands in the southern seas was looked
at, the establishment of an independent Government there
would lay the foundation of a powerful empire. He trusted
that something, more than a mere vote being come to on the
resolutions which had been proposed would be realised. He
considered that the country was now in a better position to dis-
cuss the great question of Colonial Government than it had
everbefore been. Theclaims of New Zealand for an independent
Government would gradually fall with more strength upon the
Legislature, until eventually they would be forced to adopt one
of two courses, either an independent Governor must be ap-
pointed, or a system of representation similar to the British
House of Commons must be constituted.—( Hear.) A spirit
was springing up in different colonies, which would lead them
to demand a greater share of independent Government than
they now possessed ; and he should be happy to see the time
arrive, when the emancipation of these colonies from home in-
terference was accomplished. It bad been suggested that from
time to time all the statistics and other information connected
with the colonies should be obtained, so that a digested report
might be had of all the circumstances going on in these places.
He was afraid, however, that the Colonial-office already had
more business to attend to than it could well perform, and was
satisfied that the sooner it was relieved of some of it, the better
would it be for the interest and welfare of those colonies.

Sir HO WARD DOUGLAS said he had read all the volumi-
nous papers which had been presented to the House on the
affairs of New Zealand, and he therefore rose to address the
House with a due sense of the importance of the subject before
it. He should net, however, occupy their time in referring to
documents to bear out his views, as they had been quoted at
great length by the Under Secretary for the Home Depart-
ment (Mr. Hope), by the Hon. Alember for Liskeard (Mr.
C. Buller), and by other Hon. Members. The subject of
New Zealand had occupied his attention for many years, and he
spoke with peculiar interest respecting it, as he had the
honour to command the troops serving in that colony.
No Member of that House, or any subject of the realm, could
attach higher importance to a properly managed system of
emigration than he did. It was because he was of this opinion,
and because he had the interests of that colony, which was a
fruitful one, at heart, that he deprecated and condemned that
rash, that unauthorised, that ill-conducted lawless scheme of
colonisation which had been attempted in that colony by the
brew Zealand Company, and the failure of which had been the
cause of all that had happened, and all that might happen, of
a serious nature, in that colony. In support of this opinion he
quoted a passage in the report of the Committee last year on
New Zealand affairs, which stated that the Company were
guilty of impropriety and irregularity in sending out persons
to the colony in the way they had done. For the words
" impropriety " and " irregularity" he wouldsubstitute " rash"
and " lawless." It was the duty of Lord Glenelg to have
stepped, and cf Lord Normanby to have adopted strong mea-
sures to have prevented any colonisation without the Queen's
authority ; and had he (Sir H. Douglas) been there he would
have sent those who attempted to carry out so objectionable a
system to New South Wales.—(A laugh.)
Lord J. RUSSELL—That would have been against the law.
Sir H. DOUGLAS—He repeated that he would have sent
them there until colonisation could be adopted with the
Queen's consent, and until the course they proposed to
adopt was not illegal. He then referred to letters sent
by Lord John Russell and the Marquis of Normanby to
Captain Hobson, recognising the strong claims of the natives,
who had made some progress in the arts of Government, and
recommending measures for the proper management of the af-
fairs of the colony. The Company caused the Government
to (adopt measures for its own protection and for that of the
colonists. The Company proceeded in their undertaking with-
out the authority of the Government, and now called
upon them to break the guarantee which they (the
Government) gave to the inhabitants of New Zealand.
By what right had Sierra Leone been held but by the same
circumstances ? and it was a new principle of colonial law re-
specting native rights which had been promulgated by the Hon.
Member opposite ; a law not to be found in Vaughan or Black-
stone's Commentaries; he denied its authenticity, he suspected
its origin. It had been introduced from the land where the
black man was a slave, and the red man hunted and tracked like
the wild beast of the forest, and he knew how it had travelled
from those parts. It was carrying out a principle adopted there;
but the tenure of Canada was the reverse of that. He called
upon the New Zealand Company to surrender their charter ;
and having thought much on the subject, and studied it much,
he came to the conclusion that no good result in the way of
colonisation would be effected, until the Queen's anthority was
made paramount, with a colonial representation.—( Cheers. )
Lord HOWICK said that he concurred so much in the re•
commendation of the Hon. and Gallant Member, as to the ne-
cessity of giving to the colony the benefits of self-government,
that he would not follow the Hon. and Gallant Member
through the earlier parts of his speech. But he must say, that
he had heard with great pleasure the speech of the Hon. Gen-
tleman the Member for Leominster (Mr. Barkley), who had
addressed the House in terms and in a temper which left but
one impression that the House would be greatly benefited by
that Hon. Gentleman taking, in future, an active part in
their discussions.—(Cheers.) He agreed with that Hon.
Member in thinking that it was not the case of the New Zea-
land Company the House had to consider, but the interest of
the colonies of this country, separately and in the aggregate.
Be
thought that the conduct of the Government towards New Zealand was faulty throughout, and ought to be retraced.—
(Cher The Hon. Gentleman the Under-Secretary for
thfe
.Colonies had stated that the Noble Lord now at the head
of the Colonial Department was unjustly accused for the faults
of his predecessors. Now he (Lord Howick) denied
that statement, ile was perfectly prepared to show
that the policthat the Noble Lord's policyy
opreceding Governments was such
was entirely adverse to it.—( Hear,
hear.) He did not f
think that any colonial Government could
be entirely free from error, but that which appeared to him to
be the most free from error was the policy of his Noble Friend,
the Member for London (Lord J. Russell.) The dispatches of
his Noble Friend were proofs of the statesmanlike views of his
Government. Th(egherreeate fault was in the appointment of in-
efficient officers.—
c He therefore did not blame Lord
Stanley for anything more than the appointment of such a gen-
tleman as Captain Fitzroy, that was fault enough.—
(Cheers and laughter.) He would net at that time of the night
take up the time of the House by the disastrous con-
sequences of Captain Fitzroy's
ciently exposed in the documents read by nt 'these were suffi-
is Hon. Friend the
Member for Lambeth. He would not now go into a discussion
Government of thequestion whether the Company or the G
mos, to blame. But he thought that the country was indebted
to the Company for having secured those magnificent islands to
the British Crown.—( Hear, hear.) He was bound also to say,
that he thought their plan of colonisation showed great
wisdom in its design, and great perseverance, prudence, and
moderation in the mode of carrying it out.—(Cheers.) He
was surprised to hear the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman (Sir
H. Douglas) say that the disasters of New Zealand were to be
attributed to the rashness and lavishness of the Company,
whilst the same Gallant Officer in the same breath recom-
mended that the whole of the Company should be of once
transported to New South Wales.—(Cheers and laughter.)
The facts were that the management of the Company was en-
tirely successful until the officers of the Government made it a
system to thwart and annoy in every way the Arts of the
Company, and to render the situation of the sutlers uncom-
fortable and insecure.—( Hear, hear.) In the northern part
of the island the Company did not interfere in any respect, and
If anything wrong took place there it was owing to the mis-
management of the Government. There was sort of

Irregular colonisation taking place there ; horrih!e
crimes had not been unfrequent, and scenes of anar •
chy and confusion followed each other. Such Banes
took place in 1832, and took place in New Zealand, that it was
not unfrequent to see the heads of the natives brolght into the
museums in this country as matters of curiosity, and it was
found necessary to make a prohibition to their importation.
In 1842, there was a vast improvement, but since the establish-
ment of British authority there things have got worse, when
the New Zealanders had nothing to do with it. The Govern-
ment of that country must have been ill conducted, or else such
an alteration for the worse would not have taken place. If there
had been a good policy and a proper firmness such a state of
things would not have followed. Is was all attributable to the
erroneous policy pursued there. With regard to the land case,
it was allowed by Lord Stanley himself that it was the unset-
tled state of that matter that produced all those evils. The
Hon. Gentleman (the Member for London) had stated that the
treaty of Waitanga was thoroughly comprehended, but if the
House permitted he would be able to meet those arguments. His
(Lord Howick's) complaint was that neither those who had
been entrusted with the colony, nor her Majesty's Govern-
ment, had understood the paramount importance in colonization
of the proper administration of waste lands. The principle of
wise colonisation was, that of selling land to be distributed
to those who really meant to use it; and by applying the
price so received in great works necessary for the successful
occupation of land. Had the Government understood
this system of colonization they would have immediately ob-
tained from the natives of New Zealand their acquiescence
in the disposal of the land. By this means, all mischievous
dealing in land would have been done away with. The laws
respecting real property in this country were quite unintelli-
gible to the natives of New Zealand. He ( Lord Howick )
recollected, when he was in the New Zealand Committee, one
witness incidentally said that he knew a chief in New Zealand
who had stated that he had a great title to his land, inasmuch
as he had eaten the former owner.—( Laughter. ) The Mem-
bers of the Committee would recollect that.

Mr. J. MILNES—I put the question myself.
Lord HOWICK continued—That was one of the grounds
which were considered by thenatives of New Zealand as sufficient
for the establishment of titles to land in that part of the world.
This being the state of things, an English gentleman was sent
out to decide according to the rules of English law, disputes as
to the titles of real property in New Zealand. Why, such a
tribunal as this gentleman had to preside over was ridiculous,
and its proceedings must only be a farce. He (Lord Howick)
was sorry to trouble the House at this length, but having been
on the Committee on this matter, his attention had therefore
been directed forcibly to this subject. If the Government had
properly understood this subject, they would not now have
been placed in those difficulties with which they had
now to contend. Mr. Hobson had pointed out in his
dispatch of 1840 the great evils which had arisen, and were
arising, from jobbing in lands both by natives and Europeans.
He would just read an extract from the last report of Mr. Corn-
missioner Payne, dated the 6th of July last, which would
clearly show the state of things in New Zealand. Mr. Com-
missioner Payne stated that he had travelled over the country
where he found millions of acres of land upon which the human
foot had scarcely ever trod, and it did appear truly lamentable
that the present few inhabitants should be differing on the sub-
ject of land when there was so much of it unoccupied in other
parts of the island, which they could easily make available for
their purposes. The natives were little disposed to agree to
his laws • not because they wanted the land themselves, but
merely because they objected to Europeans taking possession
of it. Now this was the course of the present policy of the
Government. They had taught the natives to extort from
settlers compensation for lands which had perhaps for ever
been lying waste and unoccupied. Where was the sense of
such policy as this? Well, then, this was the main cause of
the present difficulties in New Zealand. Let him now con.
trast this with the effects which might have resulted from
a different policy? Suppose they had said to the natives, " You
have givn up the right of possession of the land to the British
Government, and the British Government will give you for
that land what it is worth ; but, with respect to the waste
land, which you have never occupied, the British Government
will give you no compensation, but they will take care that it
is so improved that it shall mutally turn out to your advantage."
If this line of conduct had been taken with proper firmness, the
acquiescence of the natives might have been ultimately obtained.
If the Crown had been appointed trustee of the waste lands no
occupied by the natives, many evils would have been avoided.
Industry would have been peomoted, there would have been
no disputes between settlers and natives, chiefs would have been
maintained in their position as regarded the whole community,
civilisation would have gone on, and the greatest and most
noble scheme of civilisation that had been promulgated for the
last 200 years would have realised a glorious result. Nothing
was more certain, ask appeared from the evidence of those who
were well acquainted with that country, than that there was
a disposition on the part of the New Zealander to look up with
almost superstitious reverence to the white settler, and that
they would readily obey all commands that might be put upon
them. This was the state of affairs at first, but by allowing the
power that had been originally exercised' to fall into desuetude,
contempt had gradually increased, and the effect of the power
of the white man was destroyed. Mr. Shortland, in June 1840,
in his account of affairs in New Zealand, had told the Governor
that he was assured of the allegiance of the settlers, and he had
great pleasure in informing him that her Majesty's Go-
vernment was established amongst both natives and settlers,
and the entire population was in a satisfactory state.
This was, in 1840, not less than one year from the arrival there
of Captain Wakefield. The report also stated that there was a
slight disturbance with respect to some land occupied by the
natives; but the moment persons representing the Government
interfered, the matter was completely and quietly adjustied. In
1841, Governor Hobson wrote to the Secretary of State,
stating that the native chiefs had expressed their willingness to
comply with every order that he might give. From that
period, and for two years after, Captain Wakefield's arrival there
he extorted a general acquiescence and submission to the power
of the Government., He said, also,:that the natives were con-
structing a road. He interfered, and told them they could
not do that, as the Queen only had the power of ordering it,
and the project was at once abandoned. The policy
of the Government seemed to have been lessened by
degrees, and their power had been slowly falling. The
first effect of their mismanagement was the encroach-
ment of the settlers on the land of the Hudson.
In December, 1841, two years after the Company's settlement
Mr. Clark, the protector of the aborigines, set forth that
they were peaceable and tractable, but remarked that
some apprehensions were entertained by them, respecting the
retention of the lands. So that up to this time they had the
natives respecting their measures, and evincing a friendly
feeling towards them, and as being desirous of amicably set-
tling the disputed claims. The native who barbarously mur-
dered Mrs. Roberts and her children, and in whose case the
Governor showed great laxity of duty, by not promptly using
the authority which he possessed, was brought to justice, and
suffered death, so desirous were the aborigines not to violate
the law. Three months afterwards (on March 12th, 1841,)
the Governor wrote to the effect that depredations were com-
mitted on propel ty by the natives, and regretted that he had
not sufficient power to put a stop to such practices, as a spirit
of hostility had arisen between the native and white settlers.
How a British officer could write in this strain, he (Lord
Howick) did know. The power of the Government ought to
have been sufficient, and was sufficient, to protect the rights
of the colonists from aggression, and they ought not to have al-
lowed those rights to be trampled upon in the way they had
been. In February, 1842, those disturbances became more
serious, and for several months peaceable British settlers were
wantonly and outrageously interfered with, and had their pro-
perty destroyed by lawless natives. The unfortunate men in
seeking redress for these enormities were bandied about from
one official to another, and then told that they might seek their
remedy in a court of law against the natives of New Zealand.
In some of the outrages the natives made no claim to the land,
as was the fact in Mr. Swainson's case.—( Hear, hear.) The
Noble Lord proceeded to read the letter which was of great
length, and which concluded by saying that the colonies ought
to be governed by moral influence, and not b} physical force.
Now he (Lord Howick) asked was it right to give to those per-
sons whose houses had been burnt down—whose lives had been
endangered, and their crops destroyed—the op• ion of
a civil action against the barbarians?—(Hear, bear.) The
Governor would take no means to repress the savages
who broke through all laws, and at the same time
he enforced the laws against the settlers, who
were sacrificed to their obedience.—(Hear.) In a further
part of the letter the writer stated that he had great difficulty
in watching over both parties to prevent a collision, which
would be most disastrous. This was the forerunner of the
massacre of June, 1843 ; and they subsequently allowed this
barbarous chief, who had been the cause of all the worst
scenes of atrocity which had taken place in New Zealand, to
trample upon their laws, giving him an overweening
notion of his own power and their weakness—( Hear )
and encouraging him in his outrages. The consequence of the
impolicy of their officers was the tragedy of June, 1843, when
the lives of British officers of the highest rank and character,
and gentlemen against whose character not one word had been
said, were sacrificed in a manner which was really painful
to contemplate. He said it deliberately, and most de-
cidedly expressed it as his opinion that this dreadful calamity
was directly traceable to the impolicy of the British Govern-
ment, and he believed the blood of these murdered
men still cried out to them to give better pro-
tection to the settlers in the colony of New Zealand.
For what does civil government exist, if those things are to
be allowed? If their power be used firmly not to oppress the
natives, not to rob them, but, on the contrary, to maintain
due discipline, and to teach them what were the blessings of
peace, order, and security. If that had been the policy of the
Government from the first instance, no man could read those
papers, and believe that any resistance would be offered to
their authority. If the European settlers were organised as
they ought to be, their authority would be absolute. If he
had made out his case that this state of things was the result
of a bad policy, it was the duty of the House to acquiesce in
the amendment of his Hon. Friend. If they carried that vote
for going into Committee, in Committee their resolutions
should be mainly confined to condemning what was
passed. They could not improve their policy, with-
out pronouncing an opinion on their past errors.—( Hear.)
He thought that any governor that was sent out ought to go
out armed with full powers to dismiss any of the subordinate
officers of Government, if he should see cause. To many of
these parties was to be attributed the anarchy which at present
existed in New Zealand. The Governor should be a man of
the highest character and station. He should be sent out with
unfettered powers for the restoration of order, and when that
restoration was accomplished, he (Lord Howick) hoped that
the Government would revert to the old custom of our ances-
tors, and allow the colonists to govern themselves. All experience
was in favour of self-government by the colonies. In New
Zealand was to be found the ill-effects of a distant Government.
He saw the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary-at-War
cheer that sentiment—he smarted, perhaps, under the sting
which he (Lord Howick) had so often felt of that pest of
Boards, the Board of Trade.—(Loud laughter.) It might be
said that the principle he advocated entailed a want of security
to the natives; but if the policy of the Government should be,
as recommended by the New Zealand Company, not to keep
the two races distinct, but to assimilate and amalgamate them,
before long a great part of the native population would possess
the English language, and take their place with their fellow-
subjects of the British race.—(Cheers.) He would conclude
by repeating the declaration with which he commenced, that
the substantial question before the House was the approval or
disapproval of the policy pursued by the Government towards
the colony of New Zealand.—( Hear, hear.) Independent of
considerations of the administrative incompetency at home
as compared with that abroad, independent of the differences
between the Company interested in the colony and either Go-
vernment, he repeated that the proposition virtually was the
disapproval of that House of the course pursued by the
Government at home, arid the adoption of a new and more suit •
able system of administration.—( Hear, hear.) If they regarded
stheu
suffering interests
ering in
those
hotsee
parts,Brith i
he who
shouldhad colonized,adm
irea and
nda wereppleud
theirnow
sympathy, and if, in turn, they would do justice to the settlers
and the natives they could not reject the motion of his Hon.
Friend the Member for Liskearr (Cheers.)
explained aatla thatse self-Government.
had not proposed a Govern-
ment Air
cAo iEs tSs
nment.
Mr. MANGLES then moved the°avtdebenurdnimspeonstedofotfh,eadnedbathtee.
The other orders of the day were
House was adjourned.

Canada, and also
Dispatches for theeneral or
for the Governors of the other North American P • rovinces,
were sent off last evening from the Colonial-office.
The Judicial Committee of the Privy Council sat yesterday.
Sir Thomas Wilde and Mr. Fitzroy Kelly, Queen's Counsel,
were heard on an appeal from Bengal, Casement v. Fulton.
Mr. Turner, Queen's Counsel, commenced his address for the
respondent, and had not concluded when the Court rose at
four o'clock.