The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-24 00:00:00

:. ;. I 5 N
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welfare o f Ireland without reference to party feeling. H,e ire ere eveL. .e,•-...ept
seen a man so discontented with the favourable/ seftece
...;7-1
~rt,
which the measure had met with in Ireland. The Itt -III:. ' e , _ eilese,
e
Gentleman seemed to consider Irish agitation and ' -ettr.4,l)
as the field for his own peculiar exertions. The VAC 'e -!. '`-erseel,
Baronet then quoted the opinion of Lord Monteagleeeitsikikeede see.
last session, which was decidedly in favour of an inereal • -'ese,
the Maynooth grant, and asked, if they had not brougit.joses N -, r 4.! kt ei ki-
ward this, or similar grants, would not the Right Hon. Geritfit 'Li ':" 4 ''''
man have taunted them with inconsistency and impolicy in
not bringing forward some healing measure for Ireland? He
would have said this was the time, and that if they had done
so the Opposition would have given the Government all the
support in their power.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") But
the Right Honourable Gentleman, though he supported
the Maynooth grant, spoke vehemently against those
who proposed it, and extracted all that party virulence
could obtain from his support. He thought the conduot of
the Right Hon. Gentleman unworthy of the position he occu-
pied in that llouse. He deeply regretted that he felt obliged
to reply to the taunts of the Right Hon. Gentleman—he had
expected unanimity, and was sorry that any division should
hate taken place. lie proposed the measure for the welfare of
Ireland, but did not think it right that the obligations of the
Irish Roman Catholics should be withdrawn from those who
had long advocated their claims—their former friends—and
transferred to them.—( Hear, hear.) He only wanted te im-
press a belief on the House that the Government
had done their duty, and bad been actuated by a
sincere desire to benefit the Catholics of Ireland.
They felt that this was a necessary measure. It was an attempt
to conciliate the people of Ireland. It was not merely a series
of measures of concession, but it was an act of spontaneous
kindly motion on the part of the Government, and as such he
hoped it would be received, and not cause, as it was said it
would do, an accession to the ranks of repeal. He
thought that this feeLng had been evinced by the Charitable
Bequests Act of last seesion. But it seemed that the fear of an
American war was to have a great effect in the terms of this
measure, as if that which had been already arranged, had been
at all affected by the message of the President.
Why this measure had been arranged so long ago as last.
November, and he could assure the House that the discussions
which had taken place in the American Legislature with respect
to Oregon had not added one shilling to the grant to Maynooth,
.ini the sipetieh of the President had had no more influence than
the eiscussions themselves. He had anticipated that this
neeasnre would have the effect of increasing the good-will be-
tween the several classes in Ireland, and he thought that the
expressions of good will with which it had been hailed in the
House would have the effect of allaying the discontent which
then prevailed in Ireland. That the measure was not yielded
to agitation was evident from the power which the Government
had shown to contend with agitation. And what was said with
respect to America 1 Was it not evident that the proceedings
of America had not the slightest influence on the decisions
on this question, and to which the lion. Member who intro-
duced this question had not made the slightest reference.
What, did the Hon. Member intend to lay the great stress of
his argument on taking a sum of such paltry amount as
eti3Ootie from the Consolidated Fund, for eff,cting such a
great purpose as the conciliation of Ireland ? He (Sir Robert
Peel) believed, that the intentions of the Government would
be plainly understood, and he would not attempt to justify
this grant by any reference to the compact with the Esta-
blished Church in Ireland. He would take a more enlarged
view of Establishments its general ; nor would he on the nar-
row ground which had been proposed, attempt at all to prove
anything in support of the Established Church. He might
cite the opinions of Sir J. Newport, Lord Plunkett, and others,
to show that the appropriation of such a sum would in no way
infringe upon the claims of the Established Church.--( Hear.)
The Hon. Member who had introduced this motion had ex-
pressed a fear that the whole of :he principles en which the
Government had acted would be misunderstood in Ireland.—
( Bear, hear.) But he (Sir R. Peel) had reason to say that
the present impression in Ireland was highly satisfactory, as
showing the impression that was prevailing throughout that
country of the kindness and good will with which the present
Government were dispossd to act towards it.—( Hear, hear.)
He must confess that one of the motives that had
induced this grant was the hope that it would lead to a
greater interchange of good will between the Catholic
and Protestant portion of the population.—( Hear, hear.) He
believed that it would not be looked upon by the Irish people
as a measure of concession to their fears, but as an indication of
kindly feeling on the part of the Government and the people of
this country.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that there had been
as many petitions presented from the Protestants of Ireland in
favour of the measureas against it—(Cheers)—and he did think
it most honourable to the feelings of the Irish Protestants that
they had come forward not to oppose the measure, but to sup-
port it. They had called it a measure liberal and just towards
their Roman Catholic fellow-subjects—(Cheers)—and he did
believe that if the House approved this measure, aesd the spirit
in which it was propoed, it would have the effect of isrhpitia-
ting the Protestants of Ireland.—(Great cheering.) The Pro-
testants of Ireland did not certainly expect that they would take
the revenues for the support of Maynooth from. the Iris&
Church, not that they cared for the money—the sum of
twenty-six thousand pounds was a minor . considera-
tion—they rejoiced in the Government measure as a proof of
kindly feelings towards their fellow countrymen, but it would
certainly be somewhat dishonourable were they to exact the
sum required for the support of this institution from the funds
of the Irish Church. He thought that the kindly feelings
evinced by the Protestants would in this case meet with a very
ungenerous return. He utterly denied the justice of the mea-
sure proposed by the Hon. Member for Sheffield. if he had
been diverted from the course he had intended to pursue in
this debate, if he had said one word which was calculated to
throw any impediment in the way of Hon. Members en the
other side, who had been prepared to support this measure
of the Government, he deeply regretted it. But
he felt that after the language used by the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, it would
be necessary for him to justify thus far the measure of the
Government. He gave credit to the sincerity of the mo-
tives which induced Hon. Members on that side to Pitt on
that measure. He acknowledged and he gave them credii for
their uniform advocacy of the Catholic claims • still he wall
most anxious that this measure should receive their sanction.
The motion of which his Hon. Friend the Member for the
University of Cambridge had given notice seemed intended to
solicit the votes of all who could by possibility be opposed to
the Government meaeure.—(Loed cries of ‘• Hear, hear," and
cheere.) And, locking at the motion which his Hon.
Friend had put cn record, he found that its ob-
ject was not to insure an annual vote, _ but
that the sum required for this grant should not be paid out of
the Consolidated Fund.—( Hear, hear.) His lion. Friend
might have objected to the increase of the vote, but, instead
of that, his lion. Friend bad given notice of a motion which
would compel Hun. Members—he should say which would al-
most compel Hon. Members—to vote with him.—( Cheers. )
The motion was to this effect, that the fund for Marooth
should net be taken out of the Consolidated Fund. It was not
that the vote should be an annual one. [The notice of the
Honourable Member for the University of Cambridge
upon the paper was here handed the Right Honour-
able Baronet.] lie found that the motion vas thus :
that the several sums proposed to be payable shall not be
charged upon or payable by the Commissioners of her Majes-
ty's Treasury out of the Consolidated Fund. It was not, as he
had already stated, that the vote should be an anneal one; but
that it should not be paid out of the Consolidated Fund. If he
could succeed by a combination of parties of extremely opposite
views in defeating this measure. ow, he hoped that those
who would assist the Hon. Member in thus defeating it, would
do so upon principle. He would have thought it perfectly con-
sistent, if his Hon. Friend had objected to any increase of the
vote, if he had proposed a motion in opposition to that increase
of the vote, and taken the sense of the House upon it.
But was it fair that he should place such a
motion as this upon the paper, and he trusted that those Hon.
Members who agreed with the principle of the Government
measure, but who were opposed to the mode in which Govern-
meet proposed to raise this fund—he trusted that they would
think it better, considering the state of public feeling in
Ireland, to ensure the passing of the measure, rather than its
defeat. He did not believe that any permanent geod to any
party would arise .tom a combination of men of such opposite
principles, and he hoped, therefore, that, even if the maj irity
of that House did not entirely approve of this
measure, yet, that, in consideration of the circum-
stances under which it was brought forward, they
would prefer the passing of the measure to its failure, and that
they would support her Majesty's Government in this case, and
afterwards if indeed they felt inclined to censure the conduct
of the Ministry, then they might with some appearance of con-
sistency oppose them. The Government were perfectly pre-
pared to abide by the measure. He bad thought it better to
encounter the storm of public opinion, than shrink from the
performance of a public duty. The Right Hon. Baronet sat
down amidst great cheering, the expression of which it was very
difficult to define, but amidst the storm of cheers and counter
cheers, it seemed that the Liberal party predominated.
LordJ. RUSSELL (who was for a considerable time inter.-
lrouupdte de
rbiyestheof s-,ff, °Or trsdoe
rf
~A)lrs.aiC ou
doltqhuahthne tdoidbe
nhoetarwd,isahm ifdosre
one moment to detain the House for this night
or to lead to an adjournment.—( Hear.) But he had already
stated that he would support the motion of the Hon. Member
for Sheffield ; and be thought it right, before the discussion of
this night closed, to state his reasens.—(Cheers. ) And he
thought, at the same time, that it was his duty to say that,
when the motion of the Honourable and Learned Member
foe Cambridge was brought forward,he would give it his de-
cided negative.—(Cheers.) He .would go further, and say,
that if the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Shef-
field was not acceded to, be would give the utmost support
in his power to any motion which would have the effect of
carrying out the same principle.—(Cheers.)
.He ' bad no
wish to obstruct her Majesty's Ministers in the measure
which they htd proposed ; but he believed, if they
had not been supported by thosewho agreed with him, they
would not have held the position which they now held.—
(Cheers.) He agreed with his Right Hon. Friend, the Se-
cretary of State, that when they had been so long in the
wrong, they might ultimately be right. He did not agree
with those who said that if this grant were acceded, the
Roman Catholics
llwaltidltst
ilhhonleoioucttlshd didobos
those
hopatlevwbrereheslluoai
aenndvdoees
adetiohfatuuhairtadtththgtaeretrarrnamttcsihtul
weaaitmeer claim. He
in any
satisfaction. Ile begged to expressg htisswoudb
gdtolfnirdeal
yintrhton.eboitt)l
icyctoa erhaee ener
grant.—(Cheers.)
c.
dissatisfac-
tion with the statement. (The Noble Lord was here in-
terrupted by loud cries of " Order, order," " Bar, bar.")
When we could again collect the tenor of the Noble
Lord's observations, we understood him to say, until they
offered an adequate establishment for the people of Ireland out
oft ethe i
df unnodts
present Establishmentaaittraecahany great
d y elistincould be expected.—( Hear, hear.)
importance to the grant of 26,000/,
existing
no
satisfaction
to
those
opposed
te
the
and he did not wish now to go into any argument
upon the adequacy of that grant—(Hear, hear)--nor
was it from any disagreement with the sentiments'
of hißight
Hon. Friend opposite that he thought it his duty to contrast
farmer sta'ements with present acts. He thought it to be bit
duty to contrast the conduct of the present Government from
the year 1836 to the year 1843 with that which they were at
present pursuing, and he came to the conclusion that either
there was the greatest blindness or want of foresight on their
part from 1836 to 1843, and in that case he could have no
opinion of their candour, and must suppose them to be a
Ministry more wanting in capacity, than any Ministry that had
ruled this country for some time; or, if they were wise, be
must deny that they had acted with any sincerity.—(Cheers.)
He would not further enter into their present and past conduct,
but he would state that he would vote in favour of the notion
of his Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, and after that
he would give his most steady and cordial support to the
Bill._( Cheers. )
Mr. COLQUHOUN then moved the adjournment of the
debate.
Mr. MITCHELL said that they had already had six nights'
debate on this subject, and the result of this adjournment would
be that, at the end of the session, most important business would
be left untouched. He wished to take the sense of the House
upon a division.
Colonel WOOD concurred with the Honourable Gentle.
man who had just sat down.
Mr. WARD said that, in consequence of the general suppo-
sition that the debate on this motion would occupy_
rose leer
niehts, every standing order for to-morrow had been est Is
postponed.
of the day were gone
o'clock.
The debate was thenthardojuogurhn,ettaHndouasferearj
dthouernotbedereet r 0
nd to rea

GRAY'S INN, Aran, 23: Henry Manisty, Esq.,
was this day called to the degree of Barrister-at-Im,
by the Honourable Society of Gray's Inn.