The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-21 00:00:00

to thr,w y stigma upon the gentlemen who composed
that body, either individually or as a body ; on the
contrary, he would most readily place his own honour
most unreservedly in their hands.—(Hear, hear.) lie
voted for the exelitFlun from the Committee of the lion.
Member for Finsbury, because he wished to have this
questie,r; tried by an impartial jury.—(Hear.) But he
would now say. fthere was any aathority by which
he (Mr. i)ancombe) could show that the opening of his
letters was unjustifiable. let him appeal to the law of the
land, and he would be certain of redress from Lord
Denman, or any of the other judges of the land
When he heard the Hon. Member for Pontefract speak o
the manner in which letters were dealt with under war-
rants for opening them, it put him (Mr. Ward) in mind
of the time when he was engaged in the offices of diplo-
macy for three years, during which time he believed
that correspondence of this sort was so Colls%Only opened,
that, upon every day after its arrival, he b Armee' it could
be read next day at Charing-cross.—(LaugAar.) In
fact, if letters were written in cypher at that time, so
continued was the habit, that in a vi ry short time those
who opened the letters became familiar with the charac •
tors.—(Hear, hear, and laughter) But he would ask
what had they established what were called " mes-
sengers " for, but to guard correspondence against in-
fringement in foreign Post-offices. (Hear, hear.)
Let him suppose that a committee sitting in Ireland,
who wanted to divide the two countries, were to hold
their consultations in France, were the Government of
England to yield to their too Quixotic notions of what
was right, by not seizing upon the letters of this com-
mittee, and thus risk a civil war by permitting this cor-
respondence to go on ?—(Hear, hear.) He would say
that if this House were to grant an inquiry by which to
secure all letters from being opened, no matter how
strong the suspicion attached to them may be, they
would be depriving themselves of the quickest, surest,
safest, speediest, and most secret means of securing the
peace of the country.—(Hear, hear.) He would, how-
ever, contend for it, that it was not from private or per-
sonal motives that this inquiry was instituted. He agreed
that the object was a public and a good one ; but he dif-
fered from the Hon. Member for Montrose that the
whole proceedings of the Committee should be made
public,—(Hear, hear.) He admitted also that the most
monstrous exaggerations had existed in the public mind
as to the conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet the Secre-
tary for the Home Department.—(Hear.) However,
he had silently borne the whole of the odium attached to
this charge, even to the extent of the allegation that
bags of letters had been taken from the Post-office to the
Home-office.—(Hear.) Notwithstanding all this, he
(Mr. Ward) looked upon this report of the Committee
a: a verdict of not guilty upon the whole of the charge.
—(Hear.) In the case of M. Mazzini, he had listened
with great attention to the charges made against the
British Government upon that point; but he could nit
satisfy himself that the charge of bloodshed made
against them had been made out ; and he should also
say that it afforded him intense satisfaction to hear the
lion. Baronet opposite declare last night that the Bln-
dieJa family had not been suspected. However, he
should still adhere to the opinion that the Right Hon.
Banaiet had tampered with dangerous ground when he
interfered with such letters as those of the
_ _

.......
Member for Finsbury,—(Hear, hear.) It had been
admitted that 22 men had embarked in open boats from
Corfu without arms or ammunition or any species of
self protection.
Mr. I)UNC()MBE—They had ammunition.
Mr. WARD understood they had not.
Sir R. PEEL—Yes, they had ammunition.
Mr. WARD—WeII, however, those men were in open
boats, and in that state they sailed from Corfu to Ca-
labria, and would it not be disgraceful to the Govern-
mom of this country not to grant a bill of indemnity,
niel'oliy to dotend the Goveromfe4 of this country for
th,,k, acts when the circumstances w,. re con,idered,—

(Hear. hear.) As regards the report of the Committee
he should say that they were bound to make that report
without having recour,e to antiquarian inquiries.—
(Hear, hear.) With regard to the charge of the Hon.
Member for Finsbury that his letters had been opened,
he (Mr. Ward) would say that that was not only a stigma
upon the Government but upon the Honourable
Member himself—(Hear, hear)—and if that Hon. Mem-
Member had one spark of manly feeling he
would never cette until he had obtained the inquiry he
sought for.—(Hear, hear.) He would conclude by say-
ing, thlt he would support the motion of the Hon.
Member for Finsbury, provided it was simply for an
open Committee, for an inquiry into his own case ; but
he was sorry he had involved it so much in one of a
general character. If he separated the two, there was
no motion that had ever come before that House that
he (Mr. W.) would support with more pleasure.
Lord JOHN MANNERS entirely concurred with the
Hon. Member opposite, and he hoped the motion of the
Hon. Member for Finsbury would be altered. He (Lord
John Manners) would be content to give a silent vote
upon this occasion; but he wished to explain his reasons
for the course he should adopt on this subject. Had
the motion of the Hon. Member for Finsbury been con-
fined to a mere inquiry into his own case, he (Lord John
Manners) could understand it; but in its present state
he humbly submitted it could not be looked upon as
calling upon the House to pronounce a vote of
a violation of confidence by her lajesty's Ministers.—
(Hear, hear.) He could not see how the Hon Member
for Finsbury could imagine he had been alluded to in
the report of the Committee upon this subject; and,
therefore, he (Lord J. Manners) should object to any
Hon. Member imagining himself the touchstone by
which to test the veracity of the report of a Committee
of that House.—(Hear, hear.) What were the real facts
of the case ? They were simply these. The Hon.
Member complained that his letters had been opened ;
and he (Lord J. Manners) would say, that if the Hon.
Member's motion were confined to that, he could not
help saying he agreed with the Hon. Member that he
felt himself a degraded man, so long as any such suspicion
attached to him as was apparent by this treatment
of his letters.—(Hear, hear.) He (Lord J. Manners)
fully . agreed with the Honourable Member, that
no man ought to permit his letters to be
opened, without instituting an inquiry, for his not doing
so was an admission that he was a bad citizen, and an
enemy to his country.--(Hear." On those grounds, he
would say to her Majesty's Government they would do
well to pause ere they refused the lion. Member's me-
don, for he (Lord John Manners) would say that it
would be unendurable in any man to lie under any such
stigma, and therefore the Hon. Member for Finsbury
should find it equally unendurable; and the stigma cast
upon him could not be removed unless the inquiry he
sought for should he acceded by the House?—(Hear.)
What as to hinder the Rigttt Hon. Baronet from say-
ing that which was notorious, that in 1842 the country
was in a state of alarming dionrhance, and letters ad-
dressed from the disturbed districts to the Hon. Mem-
ber for Finsbury were opened by hi orders?—(Hear,
hear.) Ile did not say that this was the course which
ought to be followed, but he thought some course
should be taken to satisfy the House and the country,
for nothing could be more mischievous, if not danger-
ous, than to have the matter as it was.—(Hear, hear,)
There was the Hon. Member for Finsbury—a gentleman
of considerable flueney of tongue arid great powers of
,oettlar vituperation—having made there extraordinary
tat-inents answer or explanation, sitting in his
place in that )louse, and oppo.itt•• to the Right lion.
Baronet against whom tilt se statements were directed,
and whom he was assisting at the time in the legislation
of the country.—(Chews.) What evil could arise to
the public if the Right Hon. Gentleman took the course
which he ventured to suggest?—(Hear, hear.) Would
it interfere with that more private coarse which
had been recommended by his Hon. Friend the Mem
her for Pontefract?—(Hear, hear, and great laughter.)
It would certairil• riot make that private practice more
odious than it was. An explanation would render the
system more tolerable to- the people of England, and
more likely to he useful to the Scat,,, if necessary to re-
sort to it, which would. not be the case if after such
statements there was to be neither denial nor explana-
tion. if the House was to be left to chance-fight, and
medley disputation, their position would be deplorable.
These considerations induced him—(wthough he would
not vote with the Hon. Member for Finsbury's present
motion) ; for, after the report of the Secret Committee
and the explanation of the Right Hon. Baronet at the
head of the Administration last night, he thought the
House had nothing further to do with the case ; and
the only case they had to deal with was, that of the
Hon. Member himself. These considerations, he re-
peated, induced him to beseech the Hon. Member so
:o word and alter his motion as to enable

him—(Loud cheers)—to vote with him, without casting
an imputation on the Committee of last year, or upon the
Right lion. Baronet, upon whom so many cruel and un-
just aspersions had already been cast.—',Hear, hear.)
He hoped these aspersions would be retracted before the
debate closed, and that the motion would be so amended
as to enable him to vote for it.
Captain LAYARD thought that any one who denied
the honour and integrity of the Committee of last year,
must be deficient of either himself. He thought, how,
ever, that they had decided as ithout sufficient evidence
and that the course pursued by the Right Hon. Baronet
rendered necessary another inquiry and an open Corn-
mittee.---(Cheers.) When he first heard of M. Mazzini's
case, out of the House, he could not believe that a man
of the Right Hon. Baronet's honour would be guilty of
the conduct attributed to him. He was, there-
fore, astonished when M. Mazzini's F-tition was
presented to the House—he was more astanished
when he heard the Hon. Member for Finsbury say that
he could prove the allegations—(Hear, hear)—and still
more so when he heard the Right Hon. Baronet say in
his place that no Committee should be appointed, but
that he took whatever he had done upon his own respon-
sibility. What was that responsibility when there was
no open inquiry ? When it went forth to the country
that there was a Secret Committee, people were con-
vinced that his character would not be justifies', and that
no searching inquiry would take place. It had been said
that M. Mazzini had his remedy at law if anything
illegal had been done ; but it would not have been wise
for that Lentleman to have cone to law with a functionary
of the Right Hon. Baronet's influence. But he took a
wiser course, and pieced his case in the hands of a gen-
tleman whom he did not now see in his place.
Mr. DUNCOMBE (who wits sitting immediately be
hind the lion. and Gallant Member)—Oh ! yes ; I'm
here.—(Great laughter.)
Captain LAYARD regretted that the presence of the
Hon. Gentleman would prevent hint from speaking alas
(Mr. Vs.) merits as he was about to have spoken.
But he would say that the Hon. Gentleman had talents
enough for aoy cause which he might take into h:s
hands, and industry and spirit enough to bring it to a
conclusion.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear," from both
sides of the House.) Referring to the report of the
Committee, he found it admitted that the opening of
foreign letters had been the practice, but that it was al-
most discontinued. He regretted that the Committee
were not able to leave out the qualifying word " almost.'
(Hear, hear.) The House was aware that the
privilege of opening letters was not confined to the
Secretary of State, but was exercised by the letter-car-
- riers themselves, as appeared. in the late well-knctwn