The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-26 00:00:00

Y EVENING, JUNE 26, 1845.

RAILWAY t OMMITTEES.
(YESTERDAY.)

HOUSE, ()I,' Loiips.
ZEM7i3S A2P,ID ViTIZST :RIDING 3171 i C TEON
Ft 11V-017711.Y.

The Select. Conimittee to .whom the above railway has been
refer'', d re-assembled at the usual hour this mmning, and proceeded
with the oppoltion to the .scheme.
Mr. George Jackson, of the firm of Jackson and Co., carriers, of
Manchester, was called to prove that when the Manchester and
Leedeßailway was opened, its comdetition with the Aire" and
Calder and other canals proved highly advantageius to the public,
bust sine,an a,nalga,nition had %con made between the ra.lway and
the anals, the advanta;es resulting from the competition had
vanished,

Mr, Social% a magistrate of Huddersfield, deposed to the im-
portance of a line running through Bradford, and striking off to
the north-west, as the West Yotkshire would do. The people of
Huddersfield were decidedlytopposed 'to the West Riding line.
Mr. John Carr, of Halifax, put in the traffic talies which had
been taken for the use of the promoters of the West Yorkshire
scheme.

Mr. William Bound, a wortrd spinner of Bradford, gave very
positive evidence against the proposed railway. The traffic round
Bradford was extremely heavy, and it was therefore highly essential
that a railway intended to accommodate that town should have
the best possible gradients. The station of the proposed railway at
Bradford was 64 feet ab•ive the level of the earth, and considered
by the people of Br..df,,rd to be highly objectionable.
Mr. Henry Hanoi), manager of the Bowling Iron Works in the
neighbourhood of Bradford, and Mr. Serjeant, of the Barclay Tron
Works, gave corroborative test imeny.
The NOBLE CBAIRMAN here intimated the wish of the Commit.
tee to pass from the traffic to time engineering evidence. They
were inclined to think the result of the inquiry would depend
entirely upon the force of that evidence.
Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD said he should be prepared to go into
such evidence of er he had examined one or two other witnesses,
whose evidence would be of a general character.
Mr. Abbott proved that the Leeds and Manchester Company in
1833 undertook to make a branch to Halifax, but tht y failed to do
so until they were compelled in 1843.
Mr. Jonathan Aekroyd, a manufacturer of Halifax, proved that
the traffic between that town and Bradford was of the heaviest
description.

(MOW! lA,.
The Committee met at twelve o'clock, Lord John Manners in
the chair.

TaM LONDON AND ERIGHTON RAILWAY

SN.VORT. znA.Nma). •
Mr. Gregory, engineer to the Croydon Railway, was the firs.
witness examined in opposition to the Bill. Ile -stated thst the
Croydon line was nearly a level throughout, with the exception of
two miles five furlongs. Tile atmospheric line from the Dartmouth
Arms to Cr-,ydon would be ready to be opened in about six weeks.
The object of ,he atmospheric line was tl:supply transit for the short
traffic only, and to keep the present trunk lines uninterrupted for
the long traffic. The span of the arch on the proposed line crossing
the Croydon Railway was thirty feet, which did not allow sufficient
room for lay ng down three lines of rail. The height of the arch
was eighteen feet. Did not consider that height sufficient for all
the purposes of the line.

Mr. Richard Carter, a Surveyor, of Halifax, proved that the
stations on the West Riding line were inconvenient and objec-
tionable.

The witness was cross_examincd by Mr. HILL, and admitted that
he knew of no reason to prevent the promoters making the span of
the arch thirty five, instead of thirty feet. Considered it an en-
gineering blunder to allow only eighteen feet for the height of the
arch, which was to be brick built. Did not know of any reason
why the arch should not be otherwise than brick built.
Mr. Wilson, chairman of the Croydon Railway, was cress_
examined, but his evidence was chiefly of a speculative character,
and did not materially affect the projected line.
Mr. James Dudson, accountant to the Croydon Railway Com-
pany, said the whole capital of that Company, the atmospheric line
included, was 1,200,0001. ; the last dividend was Bs., the average
dividend 6s. on the whole of the paid.up capital. The cost of.the
locomotive power was Is. Gid per mile, and the rates and taxes
21. 2s. 4d. per mile. •
The Committee then adjourned till tomorrow at twelve.

Mr Young, a civil engineer, who had been professionally cm.
ployed on the Leeds and Manchester and London and Birmingham
lines, and who was the resident engineer of the Leeds and Brad-
ford line, proved that :dr. Ilawkeshaw's estimates were inadequate
for the construction of• the works of the proposed railway, while
the g:adient and stations were highly objectionable. It would
take very little more money to make them farourabl The state-
ments in the report of the Board of Trade upon these lines rela-
tive to the expense of tunnelling in the West Riding districts of
Yorkshire were incorrect.

The witness was closely cross-examined by Mr. AUSTIN, but Le
did not appear to swerve from his former evidence.

Mr. Lovel proved that the line between Loughmore was most ob-
jectionable. It was upon a very severe gradient, and entered Btadford
upon an unnecessary elevation. A better line could be cbtained, with
more favourable gradients c.nd a lower station, at very little addi-
tional expense. It would be extremely difficult to form a junction
between the Nest Riding line and the Leeds and Bradt'6rd Valley
line. The line was decidedly ill calculated to accommodate the
heavy traffic of the district ; and he was confident a better one
could be obtained if time were allowed.

GROUP X.
CATVI23I;IIDGE AND LINCOLN LIAM:,
Mr. Robert Hubbard, editor f the Smithfield Reporter, was the
first witness called this day at the sitting of the Committee. He
produced returns of the number of sheep, cows. and other live
stock brought to Smithfield market from the various breeding
counties, in each year, for the last fourteen years. It had been
his business for that time to atten I that market regularly, and make
those returns for the information of the public through his paper,
and certainly not with any view to forwarding the Cambridge
and Lincoln Railway scheme, or giving evidence upon
it, or for any other. Witness had also had
means of ascertaining the quantity of slaughtered
meat brought to the principal London markets in a year,
namely, the Newgate and Leadenhall markets. The average was
about 130 carcases of beef, 1,200 of mutton in each week, frem
Yorkshire and Scotland; but in the present year this number had
been greatly exceeded, the number of sheep being 3,000 in one
week, of which 1,000 came from Lincolnshire. •

Mr. Robert Stephenson, the engineer to the London and Bir.

n.i.igham Company, confirmed the testimony of Mr. Locke. He
added that he could lay down a better line than the West Riding
if time were allowed.

The Committee shortly afterwards adjourned till to morrow at 11

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP A: .

LONDON, CROYDON, MIAMI:IA.IW, AND
OIEVINCiTO2.f (ATMOSP.SEETVW =NM),
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday )

Sir WALica who appeared on the part of the Commis.
sioners of the Navigaticn of the River Medway, cross-examined
Mr. Sherrard, but no important point was made out by him.
Mr. AIRRREWETHER here stated that Colonel Cockburn was now

Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant KINGLAKE—There was no fat
stock brought to the Islington market. That market has been
closed about six years. Has seen a good many lean beasts at the
la, ers there, about five or six years ago, as many as 300.
Had taken care to get his information as to the arrivals of stock
at market, from the salesmen and the drovers vlso ; is quite
sure of that. Did not apply to all of the drovers. Does not know
many of them by name.

present, and requested that his evidence be now taken.

Mr. Sergeant WRANORAM said that before the examination of
any other witness he wished to make an objection to the further
progress of this Bill, founded on the evidence of the former
witness, who had stated the intention of the Company to erect a
bridge over the river Medway, for which the consent of the Ad-
miralty had not been obtained. No bridge could be made over
any part ofa creek, river, or arm of the sea, in which the tide flows
and reflows, without the consent of the Admiralty. There-
fore, if the Bill were to pass through both Houses of Parliament, it
would not be possible to make any use of it. He (Mr. Sergeant
Wrangharti) thought that the Committee must direct Mr. Mellor to
produce the consent of the Admiralty to the passing of the river by
this bridge, and if it were not produced to put a stop to the evidence
on the part of the Croydon Company.
Mr. WILMORE said that the objection was entirely new. In
all cases in which the non.consent of the Admiralty had caused
the rejection . of Bills the Admiralty had made formal objections to

By Mr. LANE—One of the parties who had been engaged in
making out the traffic tables with Mr Parkes was next examined,
and he corroborated that gentleman's evidence generally. His cross..
examination did not elicit any evidence of importance.

. - -
The witness was not cross.examined at any length, and when
his evidence had concluded the Committee adjourned.

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS.

xoncEs GIVEN AT' THE PRIVATE BILL OFFICE.

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 25,

Committee on Group P of Railway Bills, adjourned till
Tuesday, July 1, at twelve.
Richmond (Surrey) Railway,—Third reading, Friday,
June 27.

them. But even if the formal consent of the Admiralty were ne.
ccsaary, it could not be expected that the Committee would reject
the Bill merely
because it was not produced on the instant.
The CHAIRMAN thought it was necessary to produce the consent
of the Admiralty.

Liverpool and Manchester Railway,—Third reading, Fri-
day, June 27.

Great North of England (Clarence and Hartlepool. June.
tion) Railway.—Third reading, Friday, June 27.
Irish Great Western Railway (Dublin to Galwai),—Re-
virt, Friday, June 27.
Scottish Midland Junction Ilailway,—Third reading, Fri-
day, June 27.
North Union and Ribble Navigation Branch Railway,—
Third reading, Friday, June 27.
.Newry and Enniskillen Railway,—Third reading, Friday,
June 27.

Mr. WILMOIIE was willing to produce it, but could not produce
It on the instant.

Mr. Sergeant We'mulls( would withdraw his objection if Mr.
Wilmore said he had the consent, and could produce It.
Mr. WiLmotte said that he had not obtained the formal consent
of the Admiralty, but that he had no doubt but he could obtain it.
The CHAIRMAN thought it was sufficient to produce the consent
of the Admiralty any time before the conclusion of the case on
the part of the Croydon line, but that it would give more satis-
faction to the Committee to produce it at once.
Mr. WILMORE undertook to produce the consent of the Admi-
ralty to-morrow.

Epping Railway,—Committee oa Bill, Thursday, July 3,
at twelve.

Birmingham and Gloucester Railway (Gloucester Exten-
sion, Stoke Branch, and Midland Railways Junction),—Third
reading, Friday, June 27. . . •
Great Western Railway (Ireland) (Dublin to Mullingar
and Athlone),—Third reading, Friday, June 27.
London and South Western Railway (No. 2),—Third read-
irg, Friday, June 27.

Mr. MEattEweTnEn, on the part of the
SOUTH-EASTERN LINE,
en called and examined, ,

Colonel Cockburn, Royal Artillery, and head of the Laboratory
at Woolwich, who gave evidence as to the danger to be appre-
hended from a railway passing by Messrs. Hall's powder mills.
Mr. WI t,moRF, then proceeded with the evidence on the part of the

s..STawpori and Pontypool Railway,—Third reading, Friday,
une 27.

Mr. Greene,—Further consideration of the report on rail-
way Bills. (At the time of private business) (deferred till
Tuesday, July 1.)
Lord Granville Somerset,—Resolutions to be proposed as
an amendment to Mr. Greene's motior :-
1. That privileges in regard to the dent sit of plan;, to the
giving of notices, and to applications to owners, lessees, and
others, shall he granted to parties promoting rail .ray Bills in
this session of Parliament, which Bills shall, through want of
time, and without negligence on the part of the promoters
thereof, not receive the consideration of both Houses of Par-
liament.

2. That these privileges shall not be extended to parties
whose Bills shall not have been reported to the House, and
their several reports taken into consideration and sanctioned by
the House, unless on the recommendation of the Committee on
the group of Bills to which the said Bills belong.
3. That each Committee on a group of Bills may report to
the House, for its favourable consideration, the Bills, if any,
which they may not have been able to consider, but which the
parties have been prepared to proceed with.
4. That, in regard to Bills so recommended by a Committee,
the House will, in this session of Parliament, decide whether
they Shall be permitted to enjoy the privileges aforesaid.
5. That parties wishing to re-introduce railway Bills, privi-
leged under such conditions, and exempted as aforesaid from
the depositing of plans, and from the giving of notices and
making applications (but which Bills, and the lines intended to
be sanctioned by them, shall be in every respect the same as
the Bills which have passed in this session a second reading),
shat give notice by advertisement for six successive weeks in
the months of November and December next, in the London,
Edinburgh, or Dublin Gazette, as the case may be, and in
the local paper or papers which may be usually in circu'ation
in the parish or parishes through which the line of railway is
proposed to pass, and such newspaper notices shall have the
same effect, and no other, as the ordinary notices given to indi-
viduals or otherwise have, in respect to the promoters of the
Bill, and all other persons.

6. That parties propo ing to re-introduce such 131115, privi-
leged and exempted generally as aforesaid, but which Bills
Alan propose alterations in the line or construction of the rail -
way. or in the datum line, or in the sections, or in any other
respect whatever, :hall give the novices, and make and deposit
the plans, and comply in every way with the ordinary standing
orders, so far as the variation extends, and for I,ogo yards
beyond the extent of the variation in each direction.

7. That facilities ought to be affirded in the nett session of
Parliament by this House to all such Bills in their progress
through this House.

8. That petitions for such Bills, when re• introduced to the
House, shall be referred to the Committee on petitions, which
may sit on the fourth clear day after the presentation of the
petition, provided seven clear days shall have elapsed between
the first day of the session and the meeting of such Committee;
that the Committee on petitions shall ascertain and report to
the House, how far the parties promoting each such Bill have
complied with the conditions aforesaid.
9. That, in cases where the Committee on Petitions shall
report a non-compliance on tl.e part of the promoters of a
Bill ( which they seek to introduce as a privileged Bill) with the
conditions and provisions herein contained, th,. report of
the Committee on Petitions shall be referred to the Stand-
ing Orders Committee, arid the Standing Orders Committee
shall suggest to the Honse the course which they think it will
be most expedient to adopt in regard to such Bill.
10. That, in cases wherein the report shall state a compliance
therewith, the Bill may be introduced forthwith. and the se-
cond reading of the Bill may take place on the day following
the report.
11. That parties promoting such privileged Bills shall not be
exempted from the necessity of making the deposit of five per
cent. in the ordinary manner.
12. That the Committee on petitions shall satisfy themselves
that an adequate subscription contract, binding in the usual
way the subscribers to the undertaking, has been entered into,
and is valid at the time when the Bill is submitted to them for
consideration.

13. That where no petition against such re-introduced Bill,
or parts thereof, shall have been presented, the Committee on
the Bill may sit ou the third clear day after the second reading
of the Bill.

14. That where a petition has been presented against a Bill,
or anv parts thereof, seven clear days shall elapse between the
second reading of the Bill and the sitting of the Committee.
15. That to the Committee on the Bill shall be referred
any evidence taken in the present session for or against it ; but
that the promoters may offer other evidence, if they shall so
think fit ; and petitioners against the Bill in the next session
shall enjoy the same rights, in regard to evidence, which they
would enjoy were the Bill not privileged.
16. That the reports of such Wits may be taken into consi-
deration on any day of the sitting of the House, provided 24
hours' notice thereof shall be given to the Private Bill Office,
and shall appear in the votes.
17. That, presuming the House will adopt in the ensuing
session the same mode of nominating and of constituting Com-
mittees on railway Bills which has been established this session,
the same. Members who have composed the Committee on each
such Bill in this session, shall, so far as is practicable, compose
the Committees to whom the re-introduced Bills shall be re-
spectively referred.—( At the time of private business) (de-
ferred till Tuesday, July l ).

length, and there was a branch laid out to Farcham of something more
than six miles. The earthwork II oulf cost 27,961/ ; the crossings
of the public and turnpike roads he estimated at 33,619/. ; for the
permanent way, stations, and p1aut,.127,353/..4153-, rand for con:
tingesces he had alloWed 29,9374, making for the engineering ex-
ponScs a total of 258,500/. In addition to this there was a charge
of 61,5001, for laud, making the aggregate expenSe 320,0001. The SOU CH WALES RAIL WAY.;
Ai
revenue from passengers would be 19,693/. Bs., and from goods •
VIVIAN moved, pursuant to notice, that this
8,445/. Os. 10d., making a total of 28,1381. 9s 6d., and deducting Bill be returned back to the Committee that sat upon the
from this 40 pei cent. for working expenses, there was lilt a ba-
Bill, and that the Committee should have leave to sit and
lai,ce of 16,883,, Is. Bd., which would give S return or more, than proceed with the measure on Monday Lex:.
.5 per cent. on the capital of 320,00 o!, the aggregate expense. of i Captain BERKELEY opposed the motion, believing
the line.
that the interests of the public were not consulted in the
Mr. Driver, the eminent lanA surveyor, testified to the accuracy formation of this Company, but only those of the Great
of the land valuation.
Wes:ern Railway Company, who had bought up the
After somecross.examination hy`Mr. Sergeant WRANGIIAM, lino. He believed that the bridge that was proprsed
Mr. WitavEtr.v replied, and• in the course of his oliicrvations, to be built on the line would be a total annihilation of
stated that petitions fur this line had Nett sent from Portsmouth, S
the river evern. The present measure way a com-
Hisvant, Bognor, Little Hampton, Worthing, Shoreham, 'etp.ely new Bill—it was nit the measure that was first
arid Brighton ; that from Portsmouth signed by more
than 3,500 persons, while only two had been presented against introduced into Parliament. The populous districts of
it, one fr..m Bognor, and the other from Fareba.n. • This, he Gloucester and Cheltenhain were entirely thrown over-
thought, was a suiticieat indication of the public feeling. on the I board by the measure.
subject, and of the sense of their own interests which the inhabit. - Lerd G. SOMERSET supported the motion. He
ants of that great district entertained. With this observation, he admitted that he was not himself an impartial person
would rea•lily leave the decision of the case to the fairness, inde- with respect to this measure, but while he did so, he
fatigable industry, and excellent judgment and intelligem:e of the Committee.
ttee then adjourned till tomorrow.
mast con 'ess that he did not think there was much impar •
The Com
thrifty in the speech of the Gallant Member opposite.
mi
All he seemed to think was that the interests of
the city of GI uceater were paramount to every other.
The interests of the city of Gloucester, it should be
remembered, were not the representatives of the into-
' rests of the public at large. He believed that the pro-
posed Railway would be a great national benefit, and
the Committee were of the same opinion, because they
had unanimously voted ap,aintit the preamble of the
Bill. He hoped the individual interests of the city
of Gloucester would not be allowed to supersede
a great national undertakine.—(Hear.) As far as
he was concerned, he should support the pro position, in
order that the merits of the measure might be fully gone
into and considered.
Mr f ii. BERKELEY trusted that the House would Mot
sanction such a princiele as would be set up if the motion
was agreed to.
Mr. HODGSON HINDE thought the present was a
question essentially of standing orders, and not one be•
tween the city of Gloucester, the public, and the Great
West,rn Railway Company. The question was,
when parties brought one measure belbre . Par-
etnent, were they to be allowed to proceed
with another of a totally different description ? If
the present motion was carried, the House would in effect
be ordering the Committee to take a course which they
declined to adopt. They hatl determined that they would
nob proceed with the Bill, and the present motion was
to compel them to do so. Ile should therefore oppose
the motion.
Capt. OSBORNE supported the motion.
Mr. ESTCOURT also supported the motion.
Mr. C. WOOD considered the question to be whether
the Committee were justified in discontinuing
to proceed, with the Bid ; he thought they were
not justified in so doing, because the course they. ought
to have adopted was to have brought their proceedings
to a close; and then . have. reported them to the House.
Alt that the motion of the Honourable Gentleman (Mr.
Vivian) required of the House to do was to direct the
Committee to renew its investigation and report the re-
sult.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

MOUSE OF CO:ILIIONS, June 25.
The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Fuvr
o'clock.

Mr. .VILLIERS made a few remarks, which were
perfectly inaudible in the gallery.
Mr. W. COLLETT said he should support the mo-
tion of his lion. Friend the Member for Gloucester,
that the Bill :be referred back to the Committee.
Captain BERKELEY withdrew his opposition to the
motion of the Hon. Membor for Gloucester (Mr. Vivian),
with the understanding that he (Captain Berkeley)
would be under the protection of the Standing Orders
Committee.
After a few words in reply from Mr. VIVIAN, the
motion was agreed to.
RAILWAY BILLS.
Mr. GREENE postponed his motion for the further
consideration of the report on Railway Bills.
Lord G. SOMERSET said that he would, under those
circumstances, postpone the resolutions he had given
notice of till such time as the report was brought under
consideration.
COVENTRY, BEDWORTH, AND NUNEATON
RAILWAY.
The report of the above Bill was brought up and re-
ceived, also the reports of the Bristol and Gloucester
Railway (No. 2), the Norwich and Brandon Railway
Deviation and Diss and Dercham Brunches, the London
and South Western (No. 1) (Metropolitan Extension)
Railway, the Great Western Railway (Ireland) (Dublin
to Mullingar and Athlone), the Cocker mouth and Work.
ington Railway), and the Middlesborough and Redcar
Railway.
FALMOUTH HARBOUR IMPROVEMENT.
This Bill was read a third time and passed.
WEXFORD AND CARLOW RAILWAY.
Mr. Sergeant MURPHY moved that the Wexford,
Carlow, and Dublin Junction Railway Bill be re-
committed. He said there was a very essential
difference between this railway and the one
which had previously engaged the attention of
the House (the South Wales). The grounds upon
which the Committee rejected the preamble of this
Bill was that it did not provide for the improvement
of the harbour of Wexford, and further, that if any
future railway was to be constructed into the town of
Wexford, it should provide for the improvement of the
harbour. The promoters of the Bill had no idea of this
difficulty being started, and therefore, under the circum-
stances in which they were placed, they had no power or
opportunity of meeting it. lie now, however, was in-
structed to say, that if the House agreed to the recommit-
tal cf the Bill,steps would be taken to meet the objection.
The Hon. Member for Newcastle-uuder.Lyne (Mr. Col
quhoun) coul f say whether what he had stated in re-
ference to the decision of the Committee was correct--
whether the preamble of the Bill had not been rejected
on aceJunt of the dilficuliies r.sp,,eririk the harbour at
Wexford. The promoters'of the Bill prayed for its com-
mittal in order to carry out, if possible, that portion of the
joint scheme for the construction of the line from Call )vi,
to Enniscorthy. Under these circumstances he thought
the House ought to agree to his motion, as in the event
of the recommittal, they were prepared to grapple with
the question of Wexford harbour, and to provide for its
efficient construction.
Mr. W. COLLETT was opposed to the recommittal
of the Bill.
Mr. COLQUHOUN informed the House. that the
lion. and Learned Member for Cork had not stated cor-
rectly the grounds upon which the Committee had de.
tided the case. The construction of a harbour at
Wexford was not the reason of the rejection,
but the ger.eral insufficiency of the estimates—(Hear,
hear)—the land and engineering expenses being
under-rated. On these grounds the, Ciutunittee had
decided to reject the preamble of the Bill before the
question of the harbour came before After they
had decided to reject the Bill they agreed to recommend
that in any future Bill the construction of an efficient
harbour at Wexford should be a prominent feature.
Mr. Sergeant MURPHY said it appeared be had
misconceived the grounds upon which the Committee had
come to their decision; he would, therefore, withdraw the

motion.
The motion was accordingly withdraws.
Mr. COI3DEN then moved,—" That, it having been
represented to this House by petitions from various
public bodies, as well as from merchants, manufacturers,
anti others, that serious impediments to the internal
traffic of the country are likely to arise from
the breaks' that will occur in railway com-
munications from the want of an uniform
gauge ; and these representations not having been
fully inquired into by any of thi Committees of this
[louse upon private Bills, and it being desirable that the
subject should be further investigated, an humble address
be presented to her Majesty, praying her Majesty to be
graciously pleased to issue a Commission to inquire,
whether in future private Acts for the construction of
railways provision ought to be made for securing uni-
form gauge, and whether it would be expedient and prac-
ticable to take measures to bring therailways already con-
structed, or in progress of construction in Great Britain,
into uniformity of gauge ; and to inquire whether any
other mode of obviating or mitigating the apprehended
evil could be adopted ; and to report the same to this
House." This was the first attempt to carry a narrow
gauge in the north of England—he would not say
which was the best gauge—either broad or narrow would
do very well, but he thought the opinion of the best engi-
neers should be taken upon the point which was the best
gauge before it came into general operation, so that a
uniform practice might be adopted. The Committee
could likewise report where the line of demarcation
could best be placed, so that both gauges might not be
mixed, which would subject the conve% ance of goods and
passengers to great delay, expense, danger, and incon-
venience. In the eastern counties, in Kent, Surrey, and
Sussex, the narrow gauge prevailed, and were they to
introduce the broad gauge into those districts ?
Mr. MARK PHILLIPS seconded the motion. He
had felt great difficulty in deciding on the question
which was yesterday before the House. The Committee
on the I3ills which had been before the House yesterday
had been called upon to decide the question of the gauges
incidentally. It was a most embarrassing subject for a
Committee to have to decide upon, and the Committee
ought not to be held to have decided in favour of the
broad gauge against the narrow, when the question
only came before them incidentally, and they had merely
decided that one line of railway was better adapted
to the requirements of a particular district
than annther. It would be a matter for great regret if
that should be considered to have decided the question
of gauges. It appeared to him that the motion of his
Hon. Friend for a Commission to examine the question
was a most wise one. They i anted something to guide
them in the consideration of this important question.
He did not think that a Committee of the House of
Commons was a proper tribunal for its consideration—
a Commission would be a much better one. Great
inconvenience would arise from the admixture of gauges
in the midland counties, and for that reason he had
voted in favour of the narrow gauge !ine to Rugby.
He considered the question a most embarrassing one to
be left to the decision either. of Committees or of the
House, and it was highly desirable, therefore, that the
proposed Commission of inquiry should be appointed,
Sir G. CLERK would not object to the appointment
of the proposed Commission, because the question had
now assumed so much importance, that it was become
absolutely necessary that it should be submitted to the
decision of some tribunal, the decision of which would
carry weight with the country. There was one
point, however, which he would wish to submit to the
consideration of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, who had
brought forward the motion, and that was w' ad
whether it
would not be expedient to withdraw that part of the re-
solution which directed the Commission to consider how
far it may be practicable to reduce all the
gauges to one uniform gauge. That part of
the resolution was calculated to produce unne-
cessary alarm. However desirable it might have
been at first to have
.e had all
_t.he railways laid down upon
n
ono uniform gauge, believed that now it would be

impracticable. It would be impossible to oblige a com-
pany who had laid down their lines, either upon the 7 foot
or on the-4 foot 8 inch gauge to adopt now the other
gauge or some intermediate gauge between the two.
It was not necessary to prefer the adoption of one gauge
more than the other, and, in fact, it was at present imL
possible to say that it would be expedient; considering
the vast number of railways that were now in progress;
to lay down any definite law on the subject. If the
gauges on existing railways were to be changed, it would
necessarily lead to an alteration in the structure of wag-
gons and carriages, and thus an increasing expense
would be entailed on the various railway companies. He
did mot consider that the superiority of one gauge over
another was after all a matter of very great importance,
He should have no objection whatever to the proposition
of the Hon. Gentleman, if it was considered how far it
might be practicable to re-organise existuig railways.
Mrs S. WORTLEY quite agreed with his lion.
Friend and also with the Right Hon. Baronet, that this
question had, in effect, been already settled. The enor-
mous expense that would be entailed on the country by
changieg existing gauges, and the general ineonvenience
that would result would induce him to leave the
matter as it now stood. He trusted also that the
Honourable Member for Stockport would not persist in
the terms of the motion of which he had given notice,
but would be satisfied with the question as it had been
already decided. He trusted, however, that as the up-
portunity had been afforded for further inquiry into the
principle of the broad and narrow gauges some general
plan for the public convenience should be definitely
adopted before the construction of any future railway was
commenced.
Mr. BARING quite agreed in what had fallen from
the Honourable Gentleman who bad just sat down, es-
cially that which was contained in the latter part of
hi, observations. He confessed that he was very tin-
willing to interfere with the public convenience to the
extent to which this alteration from the railway gauge
would lead. He would admit that it was a
great principle, and one that ought to be decided be-
fore any other railway was formed.
Mr. RICARDO thought certainly, before any of the
earthworks of new railways were begun, it was necessary
to ascertain what the gauge should be. With great
respect for the lion. Gentleman and the Right lion.
Baronet, he must say that the object to be attained was
the permanent advantage of the country. Whatev4 r
might be the result, great inconvenience must be ex-
perienced wherever the two gauges should meet ; and it
was absolutely necessary that some rule should be
adopted for avoiding the great impediment which was
daily telt from the uncertainty in which the question
was now left.
Lord G. SOMERSET was willing to concede the
motion or the Hon. Member for Stockport, and trusted
the Commission would arrive at such a conclusion as to
make it reasonable for them to call upon all future rail-
ways to adopt one particular gauge.
Mr. WARD was glad Government had conceded the
motion of his lion. Friend, because he thought it was
highly desirable that the question of gauge, setting aside
the contest between the two rival companies, should be
referred to an impartial tribunal, whose decision should
guide them for the future. In his opinion, neither the
broad nor the narrow gauge was a security against acci-
dents, nor did lie think sped had anything to do with
it. for trains had travelled at the rate of 60 mites an hour
without accident or inconvenience, while the majority of
the accidents which had already taken place, had occur-
red to what were termed slow trains.
Mr. SHAW thOught that, if any Gentleman would
take the trouble of reading over the evidence taken be-
fore the Committee, which was commonly called " The
Woad Gauge Committee," he would find great difficulty in
arriving at any certain conclusion.—(Hear, tear.) He
believed that the "medium gauge" of five feet three
inches, which was adopted in Ireland, would be the
beat as a uniform gauge.—(Hear, hear.) He thought
the inquiry was worthy the attention of the Govern-
ment.—(Hear.) He hoped they would undertake it, and
carry it on laboriously.—(Hear, and a laugh.)
Mr. HAY TER could not anticipate any advantage
from the inquiry, but, on the contrary, thought that it
would, lead to great inconvenience.
Mr. COBDEN said, in explanation, that the object of
the inquiry was not to find a new gauge, but to establish
some uniform principle.
The motion was then agreed to.
Lord NEWRY presented a petition from the county
of Down complaining of the expenses that were in-
curred in building union workhousm s in Ireland, and
praying that a remedy might be applied to the evil.
Mr. M. GIBSON presented a petiien, signed by the
merchants and manufacturers of Manchester, praying
the House to address the Crown for the purpose of
having the treaty entered into by the Government of
Buenos Ayres to give free access to the River Plata
enforced.
A petition was then presented agiinst the abolition of
tests in the Scotch universities.

Sir R. PEEL said that he presented a petition the
other night in favour of the colleges about to be insti-
tuted in Ireland, which he stated to be from Loudon. It
was not from London, it came from Dublin.
LUNATIC PAUPERS BILL.
This Bill passed through Committee. The Report
was brought up and received, and ordered to be printed.
STATUTE LABOUR (SCOTLAND) BILL.

The report of the Committee was brought up.
Mr. SUOLLETT moved that tho Bill be re-com-
mitted for the purpose of adding the following ciam:e
And whereas it is expedient to abolish the personal
performance of statute service, and the levying of the
conversion thereof in money, or any assessmt nt
in
lieu of such conversion, as a personal or pull tax ;
be it enacted, that irom and after this present
year, 1845, it shall and may be lawful for ail such
trustees, at a general meeting assembled, if they shall
think tit, to order and direct that in any county, or dis-
trict of a county, all such performance statute service,
and all such levying of conversion, or ase.essnient in lieu
thereof; shall maie and deti-rtnine. And be it enacted,
that it shall and may be lawful for all such truswes, at
a general meeting as,embled, if they shall think fit, to
assess any sum not exceeding the amount of the conver-
sion or other money which by the reason of this Act shin cease to be exigible, and to cause the same to
be levied upon all lauds, buildings, and other
heritable subjects not hereinbefore e.xempttAl from
assessment, or to be added to the sums otherwise as-
sessable by any local Act ; and all sueh sums so assessed
or added, shall be levied and applied in the same
manner as the money might have been levied end
applied in lieu of which the said sums arc assessed ;
Provided always, that all such sums shall be payable by
the occupiers of the lands, buildings, or other heritable
subjects so assessed, but such ocAtpiers shall be en-
titled to deduct one-half of such sums from the rent pay-
able to the owners or other parties has ingright to such retg.
And be it enacted, that in the case of such assessment
being laid upon lands, buildings, and heritable subjects, as
aforesaid, the annual value thereof shall be ascertained by
such trustees, in manner prescribed by the local Acts now in
force, or in such and like manner as the annual value of
lands, buildings, and heritable subjects, is authorised
and directed to be ascertained in counties and burghs
respectively, under and by virtue of an Act passed
in the second and third year of the reign of
her Majesty Queen Victoria intituled, An Act
to improve Prisons and Prison 'Discipline in Scotland
and it shall be lawful for such trustees, if they shall think
fit, to assume the amount ascertained as the annual value
of such lands, buildings, and heritable subjects in counties
and boroughs respectively, under the said recited Act,
to be the amount on which the assessment hereby
authorised to be levied,
.may be levied for the purposes
of this Act."

Mr.
BAILLIE said that as many petitiiins had been
presented from Scotland. some of them by himself, from
Inverness, against the Bill ; and as a considerable oppo-
sition was exhibited towards the principle of the Bill,
he trustel that, under these circumstances, the Bon.
Member would not press his motion.
Mr. H. DRUMMOND said that the opposition from
Inverness was most absurd, and he could not think of
withdrawing the motion because of it.
Mr. P. M. STEWART thought the Bill would confer
great benefits on Scotland generally, especially if in.
formation were procured from the different counties and
Wands threatening to oppose it. He hoped, therefore, the
Member for Perth would withdraw his opposition, and
at least allow the report of the Bill to be brought up.
Mr. HOME DRUMMOND was understood to asst,
and the report was accordingly brought up. The House
then went into Committee on the Bill, and on the third
clause being read,

Mr. GIBBON' CRAIG rose to address the House, but
from the excessive noise in the House, and the low tone
of the Hon. Member, his re:narks were wholly inaudible
in the gallery.
Several other clauses, with some verbal amendmev.ts
suggested by Mr. SntoLLETT and Mr. EDWARD ELLICE,
jun., were agreed to.

Mr. EDWARD ELLICE, jun., movi4l an amend-
ment, that servants should be altogether exempted from
the tax, and that the clause affecting them should be
struck out.

Mr. I'. MAXWELL STEWART agreed with the
Lion. Member for St. Andrew's. He thought that the
Bill did not g 3 far enough. lie could not understand
why servants should be subjected to a contribution at
all. lie should, therefore, gladly support the amend-
ment for their exemption.

Mr. LOCIC[IART said it was an important subject,
which required great consideration. Ile h.d not yet
made up his mind on the subject, and would recommend
postponement.
Mr. EDWARD ELLICE, jun., then withdrew his
amendment, as it appeared to him the House were. not
willing to entertain it.

The other clauses were then agreed to, and the Bill
passed through Committe.
The House resumed, and the Report was brought up
and agreed to.

Omnr. tpheAmvoltDionDtuhaNtrothAesHou
DOG STEALING BILL .
which made the offence of stealingros
this Bill, se go into Committee on
objected to thatri
portion of it
ru such
v
dog punishable by transportation amn article
.eari sass
was of opinion that the present law was‘ )sufficiently
strong for the punishment of such offenders, if magis-
trates would but carry it out in full force. BY the 31st
section of the Act of George 11., magistrates were em-
powered to inflict a fine of 201. on a person convicted of
stealing a dog. By the 63d section of the same Act
magistrates might grant a warrant giving a person
authority to search for a dog which had been stolen.
Mr. HENLEY had been informed that there was
great difficulty in obtaining a search warrant, and when
obtained, of carryinc, it out.
Sir JAMES (FRAHAM wished to say a few
words before the House went into Committee on the Bill.
The clause making the offence of stealing a dog put ish-
able by seven year:' transportation would require their
serious consideration. The lion. and Learned Member
(Mr. D. Dundas) must admit that in the lstv, ski now
administered, there were great anomalies.---(Laughter.)
He was credibly informed that in a case of a person

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