The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-05 00:00:00

made. Such an expression would be disrespectful towards the
House.
Mr. GIBSON said, he recollected distinctly that the Right
Hon. Baronet stated there should be no discrimination as to
the sources from whence income was derived; and if they
attempted to levy the tax on any such principle, they should be
obliged to abandon the plan altogether. He did not, however,
mean to say that the Right Hon. Baronet vi-:shed to imply that
there should he no modification of the details.
Sir R. PEEL said, he did not mean to recognise the prin-
ciple of discriminating between the sources of income, and
should do his utmost to guard against it.
Mr. PRICE addressed a few words to the House in explana-
tion. He did not mean to say that the tax ought to be aban-
doned, but that it ought to le modified.

Mr. WALLACE said he had been a Commissioner under
the old income tax, and knew something of its worki: g. In
the first place they would allow him to state, that wherever he
bee been during the time he had not been doing his duty in
that House, the present plan had been very generally discussed,
and also the qu stion whether the Right Hon. Baronet would
be able to carry it. He must state that he had heard among
all parties a belief expressed that he would not be able to do it.
They did not doubt his willingness to carry it, but there were
some who doubted his power. Again r. f rring to the working of
the machinery of the income tax, the Hon. Member said that
as a Commissioner he had found the duty so disgraceful, and so
incompatible with the feelings and conduct c f a gentt•man,
that he told his father (who was then alive) that he would
never again go into such a den of sin and iniquity as he then
found himstlf in.—(Laughter.) :Hon. Gentlemen might
laugh, but by the time they had felt the operation of the in.
come tax for two or three years, he believed they would change
their tone. He spoke of the days when twelve ler cent. was
exacted, but he did not see that there was any difference in
principle, and not much in practice, between the old plan and
the present. The Right Hon Baronet had passed a certain Bill
called " Peel's Bill,' and that and other enactm: ids supported
by lion. Gentlemen opposite were more at the root of the evil
than the conduct of the late Government. If it were true that
the country was at war, why could they not borrow the money
over again as they did befo e ? If they were not at war, why
should they raise the revenue which was wanted by an income
tax ? • Why could they not at least postpone it for a time ?
Whatever endeavours might be made to keep the result of the
inquiry secret, it was sure, by the indiscre.ion or the go-sipping
of clerks, to get wind. In its operation on mercantile men
their income was taxed, while it made no difference for
the amount of their lines from one year to another.
He had no doubt but there would be many abuses in the manner
of raising the tax. There were abuses in every public depart-
ment ; and civil situations were not eenferted on men of merit,
but on men supported by patronage. Tbat was the principle
upon which Magistrates were now appoi ted in Scot'and,
where they succeeded each other from father to son, as Lords
did in this country. They had now in Scotland, he had no
hesitation in saying, a most discreditable country and town Ma•
gistracy.—( Laughter.) Magistrates were appointed solely be-
cause they held a political posith n the country—because they
were horn with " the silver spoon in their mouth." lie be-
lieved it wi uhl be the same with the appointments of Com-
missioners under the proposed income tax. He objected to the
proposal on various grounds; he believed that the feelings of the
people were decidedly opposed to it. He had reason to know that
the country approvedof the conduct of those who had done every
thing in their power to obstruct the adoption of the measure.
That was what the people wanted the Liberal Members of the
House to do, and they would not justify the conduct of some
opponents of the tax who quitted the House and left others to
obstruct its passing. The people considered the Hon. Member
for Pillsbury (Mr. T. Duncombe) as their greatest champion,
from the opposith nhe had given to the measure.—( A laugh. )
The ()I position to the proposition was called " factiou,," but
the people could not understand what that word " factious"
meant. The opponents of the measure had dens their duty,
and the country could not see how they could be accused of
faction.

Mr. CHRISTMAS sa;d, that upon the whole he approet
of the proposition before the House ; and he thought that the
exigencies of the country required that some such. measure
should be adopt; d. He should not, honever, approve of the
adoption of indirect taxation under ordinary circumstances, but
he felt that the country should not now hesitate in taking such
a course. He would, at the same time, admit that some alte-
rations might be advantageously effected in the Government
proposal. He thought, for instance, that pro`essiorsal men or
persons deriving their incomes from salaries, and whose meant
might at any time be diminished by illness, or other causes,
should not be called upon to pay to the same extent as the pos-
sessors of realised property. Still, in his opinion, the time had
come when some extraordinary step should be taken to meet
.the public exigencies; and he m ould remind the Ilouse
that in a great country like this there should, as much as pos-
sible, be an excess rather than a deficiency in its revenue. He
should observe that these were some parts of she tariff proposed
by the Bight Hon. Baronet which lie could not approve of.
He did not, for instance, approve of the regulations relating to
the importation of foreign provisions, which would be felt, said
be greatly prejudicial to the interests of Ireland in particular,
as he had season to know. It his opinion it was advisable to
inert ase the duty upon foreign cattle, as the present proposal
was very generally disapproved of. He was extremely desirous
to see an alteration in the duty on starch. The manufacturers
justly complained of the present duty, and were entitled to
great consideraticn. The Hon. Member concluded by stating
that he would support the proposal of her Majesty's Govern-
ment.

Mr. WAKLEY said, he thought that Honourable
Members on that side of the House were labouring
under a great disadvantage. The major proposition having
been carried, he could not see what they would gain by resisting
the measure. His opinion was that they should rather husband
all their strength to resist the proposal in its future stages.—
(Hear, hear.) He would not waste tho time of the House by
going at present into the general propositions submitted for
their consideration, but these was a proposal in reference to the
landed interest, on which he wished to offer a few remarks. It
had been felt by all gersoni in this and every other civili ed
country that taxation to be useful must be imposed according
to the means of the people—that there should be no apparent,
no virtual inequalities. His constituents asked him why it
was that a special provision had been made for the fainters
whilst no such provisions had been made fol. the trading por-
tion of the corranunity,s,-(Hear, hear.) Of course they referred
to the proposal for exemi tit g farmers from that scrutiny,
that oppressive, annoying, andtorturing ordeal, which trades-
men were to undergo in giving an account of their income.
He was free to confess that he,believed the Itght lion. Baronet
had applied all the vigour of his intellect—and a great intellect,
he doubtless had— to the circumstances of the country ; that
he had sincerely applied his mind to the necessities of the
empire ; but at the same time looking
_at the tariff and at all
the proposals of the Right. Hon. 13a. eriet for the relief of the
nation, he could see no aecurdance between the propositions
made and the intentions manifested. Let the House reflect for
a moment upon that scrutiny to which tradesmen especiaily•
were to be subjected. They had heard the, account of 11,s
Hon. Friend behind him, of the operation of the income tax
when his Hon. Friend was himself a Comtnssioner. Was it
nothing to undergo such scrutinies as he had described? Wai
it nothing for an individual to be questioned? Was it nothing fa-
him to be put upon his oath, to be treated with contempt,
and even when he had given his statements upon oath to have
his evidence rejected? Yet this was the kind' of "ordeal
which the tradesmen of this coo"), were to undergo. Trom
this scrutiny, however, the farming interest was to be ex-
empted. His constituents inquired why one rule of legislath n
was to be adopted with regard to tradesmen and another with
regard to farmers? He was under the necessity of referring
them to the Right Hon. Baronet for an answer. He could
discover no satisfactory ground for the cxemp•ion. He knew
very well that the farmers were complaining that their interests
would be ruined and sacrificed by the introduction of foreir'm
cattle on the terms proposed by the Right. Hon. Baronet. They
might calm their fears. They would suffer no very great sacs i-•
flee. All the calculations had been most shrewdly made before
they were submitted to the House.—( Hear, hear.) , The
Right Hon. Baronet never intended to inflict :tijury on the
farmers, and if he had thought that his propositions would have
that effect, he might well have hesitated before he submitted
them to tile House. If the necessities of this country
demanded that the people should make sacrifices, he
believed that they would willingly make them ; but be be-
lieved, that there was no necessity for that which was now pro •
posed, and if there were a necessity for sacrifices, let them fah
with equal weight and pressure upsn all classes of the commu-
nity. Now, what was the first proposition with reference to
farmers ? Why, that a farmer who rented a farm of less than
3001. a year, should not pay one farthing of income tax ; and
besides, the farmer was to be entirely free from the scrutiny
which, after all, was felt to be the master grievance.—( Hear. )
The second proposition was, that when the rent was above 300/.
a year, the profits should be assessed at only one-half. The
general belief was, that that was proposed to secure the good-
will of the 5 1. tenants; that it was intended as a sop to Cer.
berus--a means of satisfying the great landed monster of this
country. He could not understand the ground of this distinction
With reference to the tariff, his great objection was, that the

Right lion. Baronet did not fit st secure a reduction in the price
of bread. Many persons doubted whether the proposed alte-
ration in the Corn laws would, on an average of 3 ears, at all
affect the price of wheat, though it might, and probably would,
secure a more regular trade. Many of the duties were re-
duced 50 per cent. ; for example, the duties on articles of ma-
nufacture in brass, pewter, copper, shoes, gloves, and furs.
The effect would be, to throw thousands of w orkpeople out of
employment, whilst no material alteration would be made in
the price of food. He firmly believed that the Right Hon.
Baronet intended to benefit the country; at the same time, he
must repeat his conviction that the proposals made would have
a most injurious effect on the interests of the great body of the
working classes of this country.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Much had been said with respect to the introduction of cattle.
The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last said, that on this score
they were greatly alarmed in Ireland. If the landed interest
of England would but investigate the subject—if they would
but give due consideration to what were really the wants and
necessities of the working people of this empire—if they but re-
flected cn the immense amount-of wealth they themselves accu-
mulated, in consequence of their having given freedom to the
commeice of this country, they. would be satisfied th-t in order
to improve their own possessions, and acquire security f r their
outs property, they must unfetter the giant of commerce in
this country, and by so doing they would retain what. they had
already acquired. He therefore trusted that the Right Hon.
Baronet, before considering the question definitivtly, would
take a review of his proposition, and notwithstanding the cla-
mour that might be raised by interested parties, that he would
see that it was not inconsistent with his duty to make a pro-
posal to the House which would have the effect of bringing
wheat into the market at a lower price than at present. if the
Right Hon. Baronet did so, he would be hailed as one of the
greatest blessings which this country ever produced in the Alai e
of a Minister. Millions and mil ions would bless his name.
Mr. STUART WORTLEY Nad no desire to prolong the
debate, but he would not let it close without making an ob,er-
atiori on the extraordirAry staten.ent of the Hon. Gentleman
opposite, namely, that certain exemptions were allowed to the
farmer which were not given to other classes. He (Mr. Wort-
ley) denied that there was anything like an exemption in the
proposed general art angements. It was perfectly nue that the
assessment was to be made on the farmer according to the pro-
portion- of rent paid to the landlord. The Hon. Genth man
asked why any distinction was made between the agricultural
tenant and the tradesmen in towns on the subj et of the
income tax? The Honourable Gcntl man ap;.eured to be at
a loss for an answer to that question. Ihe answer
was very obvious. It was sim, ly this, that in the
case of the agricultural tenants, they had something which
could be taken as a test of the amount of property on which
the assessment was to be laid ; whereas, with respect to per-
sons deriving incomes from trades and pi ofe!sit ns, no such test
existed, and they were therefore compelled to make an inquiry
before the assessment" was made. With respect.. to the pro, or-
tion to be laid on the tenant, that might form a subject of dis-
cussion, but it was a totally different question from the one
mooted by the Hon. Member -tor Finsbury. That Hon. Gen-
tfseman said that the Right Hon. Gentleman ought to take an
opportunity
,of reducing the duties on agricultural productions,
and not throw the whole weight on the manufacturing interest.
The Hun. Gentleman might find it su t his purpose to say that
the whole weight was thrown on the manufacturing interest
but the country would not heed such statements. In the ar-
ticle ofwheat, the difference in the towering of duty according
to the proposed scale from that of the existing one, amounted
to fifty per cent. He (flr. Wortley) would be glad: to see
anything like relief extended to those persons deriving incomes
from trades and professions.—(Hear, hear ) They had a fair
claim for relief being extended to them iu such a manner as
that the other classes should not be
.seriously damaged, and
he trusted the Right Hon. Baronet would exercise all his inge:-
nuity, and adopt any practical suggestion that might be