The Sun.
London, England, 1827-03-08 00:00:00

DEBATE ON THE CATHOLIC QUESTION.

[The following extracts were alluded to in the course of the debate.]

Mr. Plunkett read the following extract of Mr. Burke's
Letter to Sir Hercules Langrishe :
" I voted last Session, if a particular vote could be distinguish-
ed, in unanimity, for an establishment of the Church of England
conjointly' with the establishment which was made some years
before, by Act of Parliament, of the Roman Catholic, in the
French conquered country of Canada. At the time of making
this English ecclesiastical establishment, we did not think it ne-
cessary for its safety to destroy the former Gallican Church settle-
ment. In our first Act, we settled a Government altogether mo-
narcliical, or nearly so. In that system the Canadian Catholics
were far from being deprived of the advantages or distinctions of
any kind which they enjoyed under their former Monarchy. It is
true that some people, and amongst them one eminent Divine,
predicted at that time, that by this step we should lose our domi-
nions in America. He foretold that the Pope would send his in-
dulgences thither; that the Canadians would fall in with France ;
would declare independence, and draw or force our Colonies into
the same design. The independence happened according to his
preci'ctions, but in directly the reverse order. All our English
Protestant countries revolted. They joined themselves to France,
and it so happened that Popish Canada was the only place which
preserved its fidelity—the only place in which France got no foot-
ing—the only peopled country which now remains to Great Bri-
tain. Vain are all the prognostics taken from ideas and passions,
which survive the state of things which gave rise to them. When,
last year we gave a popular representation to this same Canada, by
the choice of the landholders, and an aristocratic representation,
at the choice of the Crown, neither was the choice of the Crown,
nor the election of the landholders, limited by a consideration of
religion. We had no dread for the Protestant Church, which we
settled there, because we permitted the French Catholics, in the
utmost latitude of the description, to he free subjects. They are
good subjects, I have no doubt ; but I will not allow that any
French Canadian Catholics are better men or better citizens than
the Irish of the same communion. Passing :.ta the extremity of
the West to the extremity almost of the East, I have been many
years (now entering into the twelfth) employee. in supporting the
rights, privileges, laws, and immunities, of a very remote people.
I have not, as yet, been able to finish my task. I have struggled
through much discouragement and much opposition, much oblo-
quy, much calumny, for a people with whom I have no tie but
the common bond of mankind. In this I have not been left alone.
We did not fly from our undertaking because the people are Ma-
hommedans or Pagans, and that the great majority of the Christians
amongst them are Papists. Some gentlemen in Ireland, I dare say,have
good reasons for what they may do, which do not occur to me.—
I do not presume to condemn them ; but, thinking and acting as
I have done towards these remote nations, I should not know how
to show my face, here or in Ireland, if I should say that all the
Pagans, all the Mussulmen, and even all the Papists (since they
must form the highest stage in the climax of evil), are worthy of
a liberal and honourable condition, except those of one of the de-
scriptions, which forms the majority of the inhabitants of the
country in which you and I were born: If such are the Catholics
of Ireland—ill natured and unjust people, from our own data,
may be inclined not to think better of the Protestants of a soil
which is supposed to infuse into its sects a kind of venom un-
known in other places."

The following is the extract from the letter of J. K. L.
(Dr. Doyle) to Lord Farnham, to which Mr. Plunkett alluded,
and to which other Members se frequently referred:—" I think
the Church Establishment must fall sooner or later ; its merits
in Ireland are too well known ; it has been brought to the
light, and its works being such as do not bear the light, it will, it
must suffer loss as soon as an impartial judgment can be passed
upon it; clamour, bigotry, enthusiasm, and a spirit of selfish-
ness, constitute its present chief support. It derives no aid
from reason, justice, or public utility. Its old connection with
the Crown, and that wise aversion to experimental innovation,
which characterises every wise Government, unite to defend it ;
but if the passions of the people were calmed, some man with the
spirit and power of Burke, who arranged that chaos the civil
list,' and purified without injuring them, the revenues and pre-
rogatives of the Crown itself—some such man would arise, and
free the nation from the reproach of the Irish Temporal Esta-
blishment ; he would relieve religion from an incubus, and the
land and the country, with its proprietors and cultivators, from
an intolerable pressure. The concession of the Catholic claims
would hasten this desirable result, not by any revolutionary move-
ment, as your Lordship seems to apprehend, but by removing an
immense barrier, which the agitation of those claims now opposes
to the progress of reason and justice, and by uniting all classes of
Irishmen in labouring to renovate their country, and to restore
her, divided and almost lifeless as she is, to a state of health and
vigour. Can your Lordship, laying your hand on your breast,
appeal to your conscience or honour, and then say that the
Irish Church Establishment requires no reform. It is impos•
sible that you could, my Lord, because it is monstrous to think
of an annual income, amounting to several millions sterling,
being appropriated, in such a country as Ireland, to the mainte-
nance of the pastors of less than one-thirtieth part of the popu-
lation, laying aside all notice of the laws by which this revenue is
protected and collected, their partial nature, the mode of ad-
ministering them, and the character of the agents by whom they
are executed. The English people are as yet but imperfectly ac-
quainted of the nature or viciousness of this Establishment. We
in Ireland have been accustomed to view, from our infancy ; and
when men gaze for a considerable time at the most hideous
monster, they can view it with diminished horror ; but a man of
reflection, living in Ireland, and coolly observing the workings
of the Church Establishment, would seek for some likeness to
it only among the Priests of Juggernaut, who sacrifice the poor,
naked, human victims to their impure and detestable

The following is the opinion of the Attorney and Soli-
citor General in reference to Mr. Canning, respecting a
correspondence with the Pope :-
4, Sir, we have had the honour of receiving from Mr. Planta,
a letter directed to his Majesty's Law Officers, stating that hii
Holiness the Pope, had forwarded a communication to hie
Majesty, announcing his elevation to the Papal Throne, and
that this communication has been accompanied by a compli-
mentary latter from Cardinal Goasalvi, to his Majesty's Prin-
cipal Secretary for Foreign Affairs; and, further, a question hav-
ing arisen in that Right Hon. Gentleman's mind, whether, in the
event of his noticing or replying to this communication, he
would be, in the opinion of his Majesty's Law Officers, accord-
ing to the existing law of the land, liable to a premunire ; we
are of opinion, that under the Act of sth Elizabeth, chap. 1.
sec. 12. any one allowing or admitting the jurisdiction of the
See of Rome in this realm, is subject, for the first offence, to a
premunire ; and as, in the present case, the Pope claims to exer-
cise authority over the Roman Catholic March in these coun-
tries, we are of opinion an answer to the letters referred to migh*
he interpreted as a sanction of these claims to authority, and, con•
aelu •ntly, that the party so communicating might render him•
selt liable to the penalty of premunire.
(Signed)

" R. GIFFORD.
" J. S. COPLEY."

- -
DARING ROBBERY.--OR Saturday evening, about
nine o'clock, the cottage of Christopher Ockendon, .earth stopper
and gamekeeper to Lord Petre, near Norsey Wccd, was entered
and plundered by five men. About the time mentioned, Ocken-
don hearing a knock at his door, opened it, when two men entered,
and one of them said, " What, you are smoking, are you?" Three
other fellows also -ntered, and one of them presenting a pistol, de-
manded his money, saying, they were all " broke down" and
must have some. Ockendon, alarmed, said he only had a few
shillings, which he placed upon a table, and they were imme-
diately taken up by the thieves, who also tor.l his watch out of
his fob, and on Susan Chinnery, his house-keeper, attempting to
go out, one of the ruffians pointed the pistol at her, and threatened
her life if she dared to stir. They proceeded to bind Ockendon's
hands with a cord, but he resis,ed their efforts, and they then
tried to gag him with a handkerchief, and threatened to blow his
brains out if he made any noise ; whilst two of their gang went
up stairs with a candle, and broke open a hutch, from which they
took a 10/. Bank of England note, a guinea and a half from a tin
box, and a silver watch, leaving a sovereign which was wrapped
up in a piece of paper. They then went into the housekeeper's
room and took a pair of nearly new jean shoes and about ss. in
silver. After threatening Ockendon and his housekeeper that if
they stirred within one hour of their departure, they would murder
them, the thieves quitted the house,f locking the door outside.
Ockendon, immediately after they were gone, went out of his
hack door and gave the alarm, and a number of persons
coming to his assistance, an active pursuit was immediately com-
menced by Mr. W. Ralph, Mr. Curtis, of Billericay, and others,
hut their exertions to overtake the villains were baffled by the
darkness of the night. A horse, cart, and a set of harness were
stolen from Mr. Gotta, which the villians made use of on the pre-
sent occasion. Two of the men were tall, and dressed in light-
coloured great-coats. They have since been traced as far as
Dunton.—Essex Herald.