The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-29 00:00:00

the comparative state of cultivation in France was as per- ,
fect ignorance with that of England. He believed that
the introduction of the improved system in England was
not anterior to the year 1791, and all the great attrac-
tions had taken place since them. This was the case
with the Norfolk system, and with the system pursued
in Lincolnshire and the Lothians. He did not like any
of those resolutions, which made the interest of the
labouring classes appear different from their own. It
was not the case; and in the declaration of such a prin-
ciple he thought they were arming Mr. O'Connell with
tenfold power, and they were only increasing their diffi-
culties, while, on the contrary, if they were to pursue the
right course, he was assured that the Irish peasant would
soon care little for Maynooth ; but would be led to con-
sider and value the means by which the welfare of his
family and himself was to be promoted.
Lord HO WICK said that there was one part of the
speech of the Right Hon. Baronet who had just sat
down, which he wished had been addressed to the Howe
in a former debate—he meant that part of the speech in
which the Right Hon. Baronet stated that the system of
protection to agriculture had been instrumental rather
in the improvement than the retarding of agriculture.
He did think, that it the Right Hon. Baronet had lis-
tened to the arguments advanced in introducing the
motion of the Hon. Member for Stockport (Mr. Conden)
for an inquiry into the state of the farmer and the far-
mer's labourer,with a view to suggest some means for their
improvement, that he would not that night have come down
to the HMSO with the observations which he had now
addressed to it. If he had listened to that speech,
which he was bound to say was replete with informa-
tion and sound reasoning, he would have conic to the
conclusion that protection had checked and retarded
the spirit of agricultural improvements. If such were
not the case, how was it that in this department of na-
tional industry there had been no improvement during
the long peace with which we had been so happily
blessed? He thought that that speech had fully demon-
strated to the House that it had been checked and re-
tarded, and the reasons adduced had in his mind been
decisive of the question. Yet the Hon. Baronet had
neither met the arguments nor assisted them in obtain-
ing the Committee. But what did the Honourable
Baronet say on the subject as to the extent of
the improvement. All he could say was that
there had been improvement. They should decide that
there had been improvement ; but would any one who
had heard the arguments advanced in that debate venture
to say that that improvement was the consequence of
protective laws. But it was not his object to press the
arguments of the Honourable Baronet into discussion,
but his object was rather to make some general remarks
to the House on the general tendency of the general
object of his Noble Friend's motion. The way in which
the motion had been met on the part of the Government
appeared to him most extraordinary. The only speech
indeed from that side of the House had been made by
the Right Honourable Baronet the Secretary for the
Home Department. When a Member of the Govern-
inent rose he fully expected that ho would pro-
pose one of two courses. Either that he would
have met the arguments or would have attempted
to deny the situation of the labouring classes. This was
one line ; the other was an admission of the condition
of the labouring classes, and all the evils which were
consequent upon it ; but, however much it might be
desired, that yet Parliament was unable to prevent them.
But neither of these two courses had been taken, and he
therefore thought the attempt to bring them before the
House by these resolutions was net a vain one, and this
he thought was a sufficient answer to several of the
arguments of the Hon. Baronet who had just sat down.
But how did the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for
the Home Department meet the arguments of his Noble
Friend ? He did not attempt to meet the argument
at all, but he came down to the House and made a
speech, in which he told the House that he should meet
his Noble Friend by moving the previous question.
There was no doubt but that the situation of the labour-
ing classes was in the extreme unsatisfactory, and yet he
refused to bring it under the consideration of the House.
The Right Hon. Baronet had stated that it was the duty
of the House to consider the interests of all classes of
the community, but he (Lord Howick) thought it was
especially their duty to take care of the interests of the
labouring community. This, he believed, it was in their
power to do; and it was the duty of the Legislature to
devise such measures as would improve the condition of
those classes who were least able to help themselves;
and he thought that the object of the Govern-
ment would have been to meet the whole of the
difficulty laid before them, and not to obviate all
inquiry by moving the previous question.—(Hear.)
This was the way in which the Right Hon. Baronet met
the questiou—(Hear, hear.) He said he would neither
affirm nor deny that measures were required for the im-
provement of the labouring classes which it was in the
power of Parliament to adopt. He (Lord Howick) would
say that was a mode of meeting the question which, if
the House coincided in, would sufficiently evidence that
it shrunk from its duty—(Hear, hear). He could un-
derstand that the Right Hon. Baronet might either deny
that such misery really existed, or that, granting that it
did, he might propose an amendment, calling on the
House to say that it was impossible that by any change
in the law they could relieve the distress which was so
universally prevalent. He (Lord Howick) could
understand a Minister of the House taking either
of these courses, but he was quite at a loss to understand
how a Minister could propose, or the House coincide,
in saving that this subject was unfitted for the console.
ration of Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) If he could rightly
understand the object of the Noble Lord who had in-
troduced these resolutions, it was to call on the House,
first of all, to recognise the fact that the condition of the
labouring classes of this country was far from satisfac-
tory—one in which something might be done for their
improvement and welfare ; and, next, to point out
what were the principles on which those measures he
would recommend for their relief, should be based.
Having laid down these principles, he (Lord
Howick) further understood the Noble Lord's
views to be, that this question was so large
and so important that it ought to be left with the
advisers of the Crown to embody and propose to the
House measures in accordance with his principles. That
appeared to him the proper and Parliamentary mode, and
he confessed that he did not understand the ground on
which the Hon. Baronet who spoke last (Sir John
Walsh) found fault with the resolutions, as calculated to
establish a difference between the labouring and other
classes. He (Lord Howick) did not so read them. He
did not understand the Noble Lord to argue that mea-
sures should be passed benefiting the labouring classes
at the expense of others. What he understood from the
speech of his Noble Friend was, that the adoption of mea
sures, founded on those principtes,would not only be bene•
ficial to the whole nation, but to every class in the commu
nity. He understood, indeed, that his propositions es
pecially referred to the labouring classes, as their coed

tion at that moment was one peculiarly requiring the in-
terference of the House. Now, if he were right in his
construction of these resolutions, he thought it followed
that they on that (the Opposition) side of the House
were entitled to expect the support of every no. Mem-
ber who agreed in thinking that if the condition of the
labouring crsses were such as required the adoption of
some means or other of improvement, whether they were
agreed or not as to whit that improvement might be,
because if they differed as to the means to
be adopted for this object, they might do so in a
subsequent stage, by moving an amendment whe❑ the
actual measures were brought under the consideration of
the House. But this he did think, that there was some-
thing amiss in the presen social system that required
amending ; and he was of opinion, that those who
entertained those views, however widely they might
differ from them on other subjects, were bound to concur
in the adoption of the Noble Lord's first resolution.—
(Hear, hear.) He could not help feeling somewhat
disappointed, in seeing that the attendance in the House
was not better than it was. (There were about forty
Members present)—and, above all, he was greatly disap-
pointed in not seeing in his place the Noble Lord the
Member for Dorsetshire, and other gentlemen who had
concurred with him in bringing at various times, under the
consideration of the House, the condition of some portion
of the population of that country. That Noble Lord
had devoted much of his time and attention—and in a
manner highly praiseworthy—to the bringing before the
House the condition of the women in mines, of the chil-
dren in factories, and of other branches of the labouring
population ; and therefore he (Lord Howick) confessed
that he was very greatly disappointed that that Noble
Lord was not present to support them in proposing some
means for relieving the distresses—not of a particular
section, but of the people generally, especially as all those
grievances, and all those sufferings did not arise from
any particular local cause, but were symptomatic of a
general evil, which lay at the bottom of the whole case

-namely, the inability of the working classes of this
country to obtain a fair remuneration for their labour—
an inability to command a market sufficiently certain.
All these distresses, all these grievances, arose from this
one source; and the attempts made in various ways to get over
the difficulties which the population were labouring under, but
added to the existing evil.--( Hear, hear.) When, therefore,
this proposition of the Noble Lord was one not tending to dam
up the channels of industry, but to open still more the sources
from which prosperity flowed, he did feel disappointed at the
absence of the Noble Lord, the Member for Dorsetshire, be-
cause, had the Noble Lord been in the House, he (Lord
Howick) had so much confidence in the sincerity of his inten-
tions, in the honesty of his motives, and in his fervent desire
for the welfare of the poorer classes of his fellow-countrymen,
that he was sure that if they could have shown to him that by
the adoption of the principle on which these resolutions were
founded the welfare of the poorer classes could be promoted, he
was sure that that Noble Lord would have supported them
whatever might have been his previous opinion, or however
opposed these resolutions might be to his former policy or to
the opinions of the party with which he was politically con-
nected.—( Hear, hear. ) He (Lord Howick) had already said
that the objects of this motion were just to call on the House
to recognise the existence of a state of things in which the
interference of the House was necessary in behalf of the working
classes, and he had also expressed his opinion that
he thought they were entitled to expect the
support of all those who did not consider the present
condition of the working classes as satisfactory, unless, indeed,
they also thought that no legislative enactment could assist to
remove them. Now he would ask if, in the speech of the
Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department,
he had said one word which was calculated to lead to the con-
clusion either that the present cor.dition of the working classes
was in any way satisfactory, or that it would not be in the
power of Parliament to remedy it? That the condition of the
working classes was far from satisfactory he was willing to take
on the evidence of the Right Hon. Baronet himself. He said
that the Noble Lord rightly stated the wages of the labourer
in the agricultural districts of England. He believed per-
fectly well that if throughout the whole nation they
took the average rate of wages, the statement of
his Noble Friend might perhaps be too low, but
in very many of the counties of England they had the strongest
proofs that the statements of the Noble Lord were correct. If
they looked at Wilts, Dorsetshire, and Sussex ; parts of
North Devon, and other counties in the south and west of
England, the rate of wages would be found to be miserably
low. He would ask the Right Honourable Baronet whether
the wages in these counties could be considered satisfactory
whether they were not such as necessarily to entail great
suffering and great pi ivations on those by whom they were
received? (Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Baronet