The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-05 00:00:00

The room was then ordered to be cleared. On our return,

The CHAIRMAN stated that the Committee had come to the
unanimous conclusion, in considering the Scottish Central Rai,-
way Bill, that the preamble had been proved. With regard to the
Edinburgh and Glasgow Bill, that part of the preamble
which promoted the construction of a branch from Stirling to
Alloa had not been proved. The Committee considered, al.o,
in respect of the Scottish Central Railway, that it was not at pre.
sent advisable that Perth should be made a central station. It
would be necessary that some subsequent arrangement should be
entered into with the other companies, in order that their mutual
accommodation might be considered, but that the Scottish Central
Railway Company would be at liberty to proceed in the construc-
tion of their works until such arrangement was satisfactorily made.
In answer to a question by Mr. Clerk, whether the South Inch
was to be the locus of the station,
The CHAIRMAN said that a special clause having reference to
this would be introduced into the Bill ; and he referred him to the
Chester and Holyhead Bill for a precedent by which he might
know how to proceed.

The clauses were then proceeded with, which were all passed
with the exception of those relating to tolls and stations, the con.
sideration of which was ordered to be adjourned.
Mr. ANDREWS then proceeded to address the Committee on
behalf of the Campsie and other branches of the Edinburgh and
Glasgow line, but as the preamble of these Bills are ui.opposed, he
only stated their general outline. The Campsie branch was five
miles in length, and would cost 42,0001., and passed through very
important agricultural districts; there were also four small subdivi.
sional lines, one of which in its ramifications, would join the Monck-
land Railway, and the other would proceed from the Edinburgh and
Glasgow, and combine with the Moncklatid Railway
near a place called Claddens. An important alteration
was also contemplated being made in the station at Glasgow, which
would cost the Company 12,0004 It was to form an additional
depot for coals, to accommodate the purveyors.
Mr. ANDREWS then proceeded to call his witnesses, whose evi.
dence tended to confirm the statements he had made, and to prove
the advantages which would result to the public if the proposed
branches were permitted to be made.
The preambles of the Bills were admitted to have been proved.
The consideration of the clauses was postponed, and the com-
mittee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow,

Group I.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition.)

. ,
The Lynn and Ely Bill was recommitted; and the Committee
having passed the several clauses in the Bill, the Committee
adjourned.

Group B.
WEST YORKSHIRE LINES.

(Continued from our Afternoon Edition.)

Mr. Brown of Halifax gave concurrent testimony.
Mr. John Abbott, of Halifax, stated that in 1836, the Leeds
and Manchester Company pledged themselves to make a branch to
Halifax, but it was not until 1843, that they fulfilled their pledge.
Mr. James Stead proved that the Halifax branch was exceedingly
defective.

Several other witnesses gave similar evidence.
Mr. John Billing, agent to the Rochdale Canal Company, proved
that the Caldar and Hebble Canal Company was under the control
of the Leeds and Manchester Company.
Mr. H. Stansfield, of Leeds, gave evidence in favour of the
preamble to the Bill.
The Committee adjourned at Five o'clock.

Group 00.
This Committee commenced its sittings at 12 o'clock today in
rocm 17. Present—The Right Hon. H. Labouchere, Chairman,
mr.
. Divett, Viscount lngestre, Mr. Lindsay, and Mr. G. W.
Hen cage.
The Bills and projects referred to the Committee are the Hull
and Selby (Bridlingtdh Branch), York and Scarborough Deviation
Railway, York and North Midland Railway (Bridlington Branch),
and Whitby and Pickerington Railway.
The CHAIRMAN said it was almost unnecessary for him to call
the attention of the parties to the rule of proceeding in the
arguing of the Bills and projects before them. No
doubt they
would agree to adopt them.
The Counsel and agents agreed to the Chairman's suggestion.
The first Bill called on was
THE WHITBY AND PICKERING RAILWAY.
This is a Bill for authorising the sale of the Whitby and Picker_
mg Railway to the York and North Midland Railway Company, and
for enabling the said Company to make certain deviations or alte-
rations is the line of the Whitby and Pickering Railway.
Mr. BULMRIt appeared as agent for the Bill. He had great
pleasure in informing the Committee that there was no opposition
to the measure.
Mr. Richardson, the solicitor to the Bill, was the first witness
called to put in the Acts of Parliament by which the line was em-
powered to be constructed.
Mr. Hudson was then called to prove the preamble.
The CHAIRMAN—Are you the chairman of the Company to
which you propose to sell the present line of Railway ? Mr. Hud-
son—l am. At present the Whitby and Pickering Railway it
worked by horses. It is not adapted to the traffic of the line.
It would be of great advantage to the public if the Whitby and
Pickering line were united with the Pickering branch of the York
and Scarborough Railway. The proposed deviations of the Whitby
line would be of the greatest convenience. To carry cut fully the
advantages of the present Bill it would be necessary to construct a
mr,oaclies, in the parish of Whitby.
This was ehe bliglifthe preamble.
The CRITE
to NAlria4A put the question, the preamble was de-
clared be proi ,
The clauses were t 124 tone into and passed, with the exception
of those relating to thwrates and tolls, which were adjourned for
further consideratioa.'
The pronaptirrpOsz that for coal, lime, culm, stone waste,
Pig liclu‘ngtirilk tiles, slates, metallic ores, and potatoes,
• a

the sum of 3d. per ton per mile should be charged. For corn, flour,
coke, charcoal, bar and hoop iron, castings, pig and sheet lead,
timber, dye woods, hay and straw, the sum of 4d. per ton per
mile should be charged. For malt, meal, sugar, soap, oil, and gro-
ceries, tallow, hemp, cotton, wool, leather, hides, mal' liquors,
machinery, butchers' meat, provisions, fruit, and vegeta es, the
sum of sd. per ton per mile ; and for goods, wares, and merchandise
not particularised in the above, the sum of 6d. per ton per mile
shall be the rats of charge. For every person conveyed, 2d. per mile.
for each horse, mule, &c., not exceeding ten miles, the sum of
2s. 6d. ; and exceeding that distance, and undar twenty miles,
45. 6d. ; and above twenty miles, ss. 6d. ; and for every carriage,
not weighing more than two tons, 6d per mile.
The above rates will undergo some amendments on the re. con-
sideration of the subject.
The next case taken was that of
THE YORK and SCARBOROUGH RAILWAY DEVIATION.

Mr. HOPE appeared as counsel for this Bill. He said It was a
measure to enable the York and North Midland Railway Company
to alter the line of the York and Scarborough Railway, near the
city of York. There was but one petition against the clause,
and that was from the Great North of England Railway Company.
The only difference between the promoters and the opponents was
the mode of crossing the Great North of England line. It was a
matter of great moment to the promoters, inasmuch as the point
of crossing the latter line drawn up by his clients was the one that
could be used with advantage and safety to the public. The oppo-
nents proposed that a crossing should be trade, at a great disad-
vantage and with considerable danger to the passengers en both
lim s. lie trusted, that after evidence which he would call, the
Committee would declare that the preamble had been proved.

Mr. Stephenson, the engineer, was then called, and his evidence
fully bore out the arguments of the Learned Counsel.
The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

Group S.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition

Samuel Thorpe, carrier between the towns on the proposed line
fur above thirty years, said that the traffic which would flow on to
the line would be annually about 233,140 tons, and the total
freightage would be nearly 62,0001._ _

Mr. Harley, eoach proprietor in Lincoln, returned the traffic of
the coaches on the line at about 6,0001., and van traffic at 2,0001.,
the greater part of which would be absorbed by the intended line.
William Filkins, laceman, Nottingham—Thought that the rail.
way would be of the utmost importance to the trade of the town,
and naturally diminish the alterations or fluctuations which had of
late years proved so injurious to Nottingham.
William Hardinett, residing near Nottingham—Was a maltster
and thought that the proposed line would do a great deal of good
to the district!.

The examination of the witness was proceeded with till four
o'clock, when the Court adjourned till tomorrow.

Group 0.
GRAND JUNCTION POTTERIES LINE.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition.)

Mr. COCKBURN having replied, the parties were ordered to with.
draw.
After an interval of some time, the parties were admitted.

The CHAIRMAN informed them that they considered the pre-
amble of the Bill proved on the condition that certain clauses should
be inserted in the Bill.

Group E.
NEWCASTLE AND BERWICK LINE.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition.)
Mr. Sergeant WRANGHAM then addressed the Committee to the
effect that if, for the sake of the branches being made, the best
trunk line is set aside, the moat irretrievable injury would follow to
the public The question was, which of the two lines of which
they had the plans would make the best trunk line. They were
aware that there already existed a chain of railway communica-
tion between London and Edinburgh, passing through the
western parts of England. By this chain the distance would not
be more than 399 miles. The Board of Trade in their report on
the case state that the line of eastern communication is not many
miles loss than the western. He (Sergeant Wrangham) would
prove that the eastern line would be the longest of the two.
If the line recommended be adopted, the distance from Edin-
burgh to London would be 407 miles. It became then a
matter of deep moment to the Committee to select the
shortest, quickest, and cheapest mode of communication, and at
the same time to retain to the eastern parts of the kingdom that
advantage which it already possesses. His Learned Friend (Mr.
Hildyard), in opening the case, had stated that it was connected with
the shortening of the line at the south side of Newcastle, and
claimed credit for the fact of his line being in conjunction
with the former; but he contended that no efficient improvement
could be made. The real line to be adopted was, to run
the straight course which had been once sanctioned by Parliament,
and had been laid down by the Great North of England Company,
and which abridged the distance between Durham and Newcastle
by no less than seven miles. If the Newcastle and Berwick
line be adopted, the other could never be carried out,
as it would be directly opposed to their interests.
If the improved line of railway called the Northumberland line,
which was now before the Committee, and denoted by the yellow
line in the map, be adopted, they would have a great saving both
at the north and south sides of Newcastle. The Committee had
the best security for the advantage of the scheme of which he
was the advocate. If the Northumbeland line be adopted, the
direct line through Durham must pay, as a matter of course.
On the line which he advocated there would be no level crossings,
as on the other, which would be at the expense of paying 501. a
year to 64 watchmen. The distance from Gateshead to Berwick,
according to the proposed line from Newcastle to Berwick would
be 67 miles, whereas the other line would shorten it by three
miles and a half, by making it only sixty-three miles.
The Committee should consider the importance of such
line as regarded the different modes of traction, one being atmos.
pheric and the other locomotive. He was surprised that the
Board of Trade, in their report on atmospheric railways, did not
seem to consider it all important gradient after the successful ex.
periment at Dalkey. The Learned Counsel then entered
into the superior merits of the atmospheric line which he
advocated. The loss of power on the atmospheric line
to acquire acceleration, he contended, was nothing—
whereas the loss of power en a locomotive line was enormous. He
then quoted from Mr. Stephenson's evidence before the Board of
Trade to show that the more frequent the trains on an atmospheric
line, the less would be the loss of power. If it be their interest
to have a number of trains, it must be their interest to carry
the public at as high a rate of speed and as low a rate of fare
as they possibly could arrive at. At what cost would they
propose to carry the public ? They proposed to have a greater
number of carriages and a greater speed. The speed on the loco_
motive line was to average two hours and a half, and they pro-
posed on the atmospheric line to carry them f rem Newcastle to
Berwick in one hour and a half on an average. Now as to cheap.
ness, the locomotive line proposed to carry first-class passengers
for I6s. 6d., on this atmospheric they would carry them for half
a guinea. A prop3rtionate comparative reduction would be made
in the second and third classes. He believed that there could not
be a more favourable opportunity for confirming the success of the
experiments already tried, and manifesting its advantages to the
world. But if it were thrown out it would be suppressed, and the
public would lose the benefit of it for some time. They had an op-
portunity which, if once neglected, would not be recalled.
It was said that this was a mere experiment, and that that should
be a bar to its trial ; but surely they had had time to see the ad-
vantages of the Dalky line. He then alluded to Mr. Stephenson's
evidence, given in 1825, with regard to the velocity of locomotive
engines, when he stated that eight miles an hour would
be speed which it would be impossible to arrive at. It
was rather too late in the day to treat this as an experiment,
and to put it aside as such in favour of a system itself in its ma-
nority, and not to allow them to enter into competition with the
locomotive system. He trusted that the Committee would not
treat this as an experiment, but that they would listen to the
evidence of the engineers whom be would call, and judge
from that evidence whether it be not rroved to their satisfaction to
be a practical benefit, and whether the evidence be
such as to satisfy the Committee that they should pass the preamble
of this Bill, by which alone a great benefit would be carried out,
and by which the foundation will be made for extending over the
rest of the kingdom the benefits of a system of cheaper and more
rapid communication than any which had as yet been investigated.
Mr. Samuda being first called, stated on examination that in
1839 he and his father laid down a half mile of atmospheric rail-
way at Wormwood Scrubs, and worked it successfully. In 1842
an arrangement was entered into between the Government
and themselves to lay down a line of 11 mile in length, from
Kingstown to Dalky. Dalky was 71 feet higher than Kingstown.
It was constructed with a steam-engine fixed at the upper end of
the line,tand a connexion between that steam-engine and the
pipes, which were used for the purposes of exhaustion. Not having
the Parliamentary power to seleet the most convenient place of erect-
ing the steam engine, they were obliged to extend the place for the
engine house to the upper extremity of the line at the distance of
about one-third of a mile from the spot that would be mcst fa-
vourable. The witness then entered into an interesting detail
connected with the Dalkey and Kingston Atmospheric Railway.
He estimated that the atmospheric pipe on the Newcastle
and Berwick line would cost 4,3001. per mile. The
electric telegraph would be about 2001. per mile.
Cost of a pipe per mile, would with the telegraph
would amount to 4,5001. They would undertake to take the mail
trains from Newcastle to Berwick in one hour and ten minutes. The
ordinary trains would travel at the speed of forty miles an hour.
By the nature of the arrangements there could be no collision, for no
two trains could come in opposite directions on the same tube.
There would be no annoyance from fire or sparks or blow.
ing off of the steam. It would give to the public a much
more commodions and pleasant mode of conveyance than could be
arrived at by the locomotive system. It presented a great advan-
tage with respect to surmounting steep gradients. A locomotive
system had to sub-divide its powers, one portion for itself' and the
other for the train, which would be useless. There would not be
such a loss of power on the atmospheric plan.
The examining Connsel having intimated that this evidence I
would occupy some hours, the Committee adjourned.

Group G.
BERKS AND HANTS RAILWAY.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition.)

To an inquiry from Mr. YORKE, Mr. Saunders stated, that on a
line of ten miles he thought that the charge ought to be higher
than on a long line, such as that between London and Bristol.
On this point Mr. Yorke divided the Committee, and on the In.
troduction of strangers, the Chairman intimated that the Com-
mittee had agreed to an amended clause which, instead of the pre-
vious rates submitted by them, enacted that the only increase of
charge should be one of 15 per cent. additional on all goods carried
not further than one-half the distance of the whole line. By another
clause it was decided that the charges should be on the average of
the charges made on the Great Western Railway, but that in no
case should the charges be greater than the maximum stated in the
previous clauses.
An objection was taken by the agent of the South Western
Railway to the clause which regulated that, should any difference
arise b_tween the Great Western Railway Company, and the corn.
parry of the South Western, respecting the junction of the literks
and Hants Railway. The guages of the two railways are different,
and the South Western Company were anxious to have the forma-.
tion of the junction under their own control, while the Great
Western Company were anxious to make the junction a matter of
mutual agreement; arid should any difference of opinion arise, that
the difference should be referred ;to the Board of Trade. The
Committee conceived the latter plan to be the lairer of the two, and
overruled the objection.
By one of the clauses it was enacted that no station should be
made within less than three miles from Strathfieldsaye, without the
consent of the Duke of Wellington; but the distance was amended
to five miles instead of three miles, and the alteration was adopted
by the Committee.

By other clauses all obstruction or injury to the Kennett and
Avon Canal was obviated.

The remaining clauses were then passed, and the Chairman
signed the Bill. As the Chairman would have to report en a great
many circumstances, Mr. Burke, the Parliamentary agent to the
line, had prepared a report, comprising all the facts of the proposed
railway, which he read to the Committee. This, after the intro-
duction of a notice of the principle of a graduated charge according
to distance, for the first time legally recognised by the Bill for the
line, was approved, and received by the Committee for presentation
to the House. This concluded the investigation before the Select
Committee, and it was agreed that the Bill should be reported
accordingly.
THE SOUTHAMPTON AND DORCHESTER RAILWAY.
The consideration of this Bill was postponed till Wednesday
morning.

kthieLßl‘ililA, Vend stated
EEADW.IpLpTeaS,
appeared
forN Dt
the promoters
oRf
Mr. STmtElti
that the opposition of Mr. Ainstey had been arranged,
Mr. GREENWOOD appeared for the Somersetshire Canal Com-
pany, and proposed a clause for securing the interests of that
Company. In doing this he alluded to the statements of Mr. Sly.
head, and the inquiries of Mr. Entwistle, which we noticed in our
report when this railway was last before the Committee. The
ground of opposition then taken to making the Radsteck Branch
was now abandoned, and the desire of the Canal Company was not,
therefore. to interrfere with the carriage of coal to the south and
south-West, but to preserve the monopoly of he iage of coal to

the north and northeast. The preservation of this monopoly
would preserve the property of about 19.0 shareholders, who
held to the extent of 1,0001. and under, who were all people of
small substance, without enhancing the charge to the public to any
considerable extent.

Mr. SLYHEAD thought that the Counsel for the Canal Company
ought to have adduced some authority for his proposition,
whereas there was not a single Ast of Parliament which can-
tained such a clause. It was a❑ unprecedented thing for any
one to ask. There was no security whatever that these canal
companies would not very latgely increase their tolls. The same
principle cf public advantage which applied to the south and west,
applied equally to the north and east. It would be introducing a
precedent of great and injurious effect to the public interests.
When the Great Western line was formed, it came into direct
competition with the Dartmouth and Bridgewater and with the
Kennet and Avon Canals, and no such plea had then been set up.
The CHAIRMAN here interrupted the Learned Counsel, and
stated that he thought it was impossible for the Committee to
sanction any such principle as this. Mr. YORKE agreeing in this
view, the proposition was immediately withdrawn, and the Corn-
ittee went into the clauses of the Bill.

The rates of charge for the carriage of passengers and goods were
precisely the same as these provided in the Bill for the Berks and
Hants Railway.

On reading the clause by which the Company proposed to take
a power of increasing their charge for carrying goods less than
the whole length of the line, Mr. Saunders stated that
the length of the line from its junction with the
Great Western Railway to Salisbury was thirty-eight miles, and to
Weymouth seventy-flee mil s, but that the Company held thcse
as one line, and in consideration of the distance, they conceived
that this extra charge ought to be allowed. Considerable discus-
sion arose in the Committee, and Mr. Saunders was ex-
amined at considerable length, the result of his replies
establishing the principle which he had avowed during
the consideration of the Berks and Hants Railway.
The conclusion was that an increased charge of 5 per cent. was al-
lowed on all animals and good carried not more than three-fourths
of the length of the whole line ; 15 per cent. on those carried not
further than one-half the whole length ; and '25 per cent. on those
carried not further than one-fourth of the whole length.

Provisions were made for protecting the rights of the Duchy of
Cornwall, and the Kennett and Avon Canal, as arranged at the
sitting last week.
A clause fer the protection of Mr. Ainstey's property was intro-
duced with that gentleman's consent. Provisions were also intro-
duced for saving any intrusion on the barracks at Fordington, near
Dorchester, and the clauses were concluded.
Mr. BURKC then read the report, which, atter it had been
amended in some unimportant particulars by the suggestions of the
Committee, was approved and adopted.
The Bill was signed by the Chairman, who was instructed to
present it to the House.