The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-10 00:00:00

GROUP LL.

THE LONDON AND SOUTH-WESTERN
RAILWAY EXTENSION.

Mr. CHAMBERS (in continuation from our Afttrnoon Edition
of yesterday) said—The Bishop of Carlisle and his 'we, Mr.
Alleyne Williams, would be irreparably injured. When the
Committee were dealing with a question of this matter they ought
not to look to the persons, but ought to take into consideration
the protection which they ought to afford to church property, and
take care that it should not lose in value to the successors of the
prelate or to the Church, which would be benefited by that pro-
perty. The value of the property in question was 6001. a year,
which would be much lessened if Mr. Woodward could not receive
his rents. Mr. Woodward had within the last twenty years be.
come a rich and wealthy tradesman, and had erected m my hundreds
of houses, the rents of which would be materially interfered
with, and he would become a man of comparative poverty, and such
compensation as was generally introduced into railway Bills could
not recompense him. His other clients would be similarly injured, as
their property was new property, in which large sums of money had
been invested. The traffic tables, he alleged, were grossly erroneous,
and the preamble was not proved. It was originally intended to
extend the present line to some place near Hungerford-bridg
from the terminus at Nine Elms. But it appeared now that
there was to be no extension from the present ter-
minus, but from the Wandsworth junction, which was
contrary to what was advertised. He argued that the Committee,
when dealing with this scheme, had to consider whether
the present. line of railway could supply the demands
of the vicinity of London or the demands of dis-
tant passengers, which the traffic tables showed. It
would require four lines of railway to supply those
demands. According to the present ground plan it would
be impossible to do it. There should be an additional embank.
ment, for which there was no provision made in the estimate.
On the other hand, the Committee ought not to con.
sider the contributary branches which were contemplated—
they should look to the main trunk alone, and it was a case for post.
ponement of such a scheme until they knew whether the branch
projects were to be carried out. If an injury was to be done to a
vast number of individuals and was to be exeused because a greater
number were to be benefited, they should not do that injury
until they saw that the greater number were about to be bene-
fited. He then alluded to the advantages which it was
alleged that the intended extension would bestow upon

pleasure passengers, and argued that the pleasure excur-
sion traffic was the most futile and most unsatisfactory
that they could rely upon, as was already found out on the Brighton
line. He would conclude by saying that the present scheme
would destroy the comfort and convenience of avast number of in-
dividuals, and was to be carried out at the enormous expense of
800,0001., and he would ask whether it was not a case which
ought to be postponed until they saw more clearly with reference
to the advantages which the public would derive from it. If jus-
tice were done by granting proper compensation, twice the above
sum would not be sufficient. The result of the evidence which he
would produce would be that the intended extension would not be
for the public benefit.

Mr. Wiltshire was the first witness called. On examination by
Mr. M. CHAMDERS, he statedthat he had been a surveyor and architect
at Lambeth for the last thirty years, and was well acquainted with
the property in that locality. He surveyed the pro.
jected line several months ago He thought that it
was exceedingly objectionable, because it would cut property in a
diagonal direction, and passed all the great thoroughfares in a
diagonal line. It would be more injurious than if it went
directly across or by the side of property. He discovered that
there could be made as good a line, and not at greater
expense, which would not destroy property by so cut-
ting it in a diagonal direction. The property of the Messrs.
Burnett, Woodward, the Bishop of Carlisle, and Mr. Streeton, would
be injured in such a way as not to admit of compensation.
The witness was then cross.axamined by Mr. HILL—He adhered
to his statements on examination in chief.

Mr. Cottinghain, architect, wa, next examined. His evidence
corroborated that of the former witness with respect to the impos.
sibility of affording full compensation to the proprietors of thepro.
perty which the intended extension would cross.

After a brief cross.examination of the witness, the Commit.
tee rose.

GROUP N.
SOUTH DEVON AND TAVISTOCH
RAILWAY, &c.

At the sitting of the Committee this morning,
Lord Morley, Chairman of the Chamber of Commerce at Ply-
mouth, gave it as his opinion that the branch to Sutton Pool would
offer great facilities to Plymouth; that the inhabitants were in
favour of it; and that the traffic which such a line would carry
would be considerable.

Mr. Brunel, the engineer to the Company, was then examined.
He stated that the line and branches would be worked by atmo.
spheric traction. The estimated cost of the branches, including
land and the laying down of the atmospheric system, would be
Tavistock branch, 157,0001.; the Launceston branch, 130,0001.;
Sutton Pool branch, 22,0001. ; New Passage, 35,100/. On the
Tavistock branch there would be three tunnels, and a curve of
eighteen chains, on a gradient of lin 42. On the Launceston and
Tavistock branch there was a gradient of 1 in 261, but that was at
the point of starting from Tavistock; at the Launceston end 1 in
27i for three-quarters of a mile. On the Sutton Pool branch the
smallest gradient was 1 in 40 for a distance of the chains, and 1 in
64 for about half a mile. On the Millbury branch the smallest
gradient was lin 43; in New Passage 1 in 25. The smallest
radius of a curve on that line was 22 chains.

By Mr. BasmwELL—The Plymouth and Dartmoor line, worked
by horse power, could not be rendered available for the purposes of
the presumed Sutton Pool branch. They proposed crossing that
line. The atmospheric pipes might terminate on either side, or
•he would carry the apparatus and the lines across 18 inches below
those laid down.

Mr. BRAMWELL then addressed the Court on behalf of Alder-
man Johnson, the proprietor of the Dartmoor line, and held that
the projectors of the lines before the Committee had violated cer-
tain promises entered into with them respecting the taking of that
line for the purpose of using it on a portion of their line. They
subsequently altered their plan and proposed to carry their line in
the same direction, and within 40 feet of it, by which great injury
would be caused to the property of Alderman Johnson.
Ihe room was then cleared, and after a deliberation of three.
quarters of an hour the Committee adjourned until to-morrow.

GROUP P.
NEWPORT AND PONTYPOOL.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

The Committee having passed the remaining clauses of the New-
port and Pontypool Railway, the Bill was ordered to be reported,
and, as had been surmised, they proceeded with the consideration
of

THE SOUTH WALES RAILWAY.

Mr. AUSTIN (with whom were Mr. Talbot and Sir T. Phillips)
appeared to open the case. He commenced by saying that the present
scheme was one of the most important measures that he ever remern.
bered to have been brought before a Committee of the House of Com-
mons for their consideration. It would appear from the maps before
the Committee, that the line was proposed to traverse a very extensive
range of country. The entire length of railway was 162 miles, going
through a country at present entirely without the means of railway
communication, and yet numerous in population, and abounding in
mineral and agricultural produce. The line would establish a com-
munication with various ports on the great estuary of the Severn,
and would terminate near the port of Milford, which was notoriously
one of the most important ports in the country. The shore
lying opposite to Ireland, and commanding all the extensive corn.
coerce derivable from the south of Ireland, It would be very difficult
to exaggerate the importance of that line. The Commissioners of
the Board of Trade, who had inquired fully into the question with
respect to the general utility of the proposed line, were of opinion
that the benefits that would result to South Wales would be almost
incalculable. He would shortly describe what the course of the
proposed line would be. There appeared on the map, on the line
called the Great Western, a place of the name of Standish, which had
hitherto ueen a small and unimportant place, but which In the lapse
of time, would, no doubt, become as notorious as some of the princi-
pal cities. Standish was the point of departure from which the
proposed project would emanate from the Great Western line.
Before proceeding from this point, the Learned Counsel called the
attention :of the Committee to the general bearings of the line
with respect to the Great Western Railway. It was pro-
posed to construct the South Wales line on the
principle of the broad gauge, and no difficulty would
arise on this head, as no opposition had been
offered as to whether the line should be made on the broad or the
narrow gauge. The proper point of departure for a South Wales
line would be, without doubt, from Standish, whether it was in-
tended to accommodate the internal districts or the coast; and it was
also the best means of communication for London and Manchester.
From St. David's to London the communication would be nearly
in a straight line. Standish would be also a very convenient
point, as it approximated nearest to the port of Bristol, and with
the west of England generally it would afford the nearest and best
communication that could be obtained. From Standish to Glou.
tester the distance was 72 miles, to Bristol 29 miles, and to Lon-
don 107 miles. It was intended to cross the River Severn
at a point six miles from Standish, which formed a con-
siderable bend here. On crossing the Severn the line would
enter the district of the Forest of Dean, which was
a mineral district of ♦ery east importance, and belonged to the
Crown. From thence the line proceeded along the coast, crossed
the Wye, to a point called Chepstow, where the line entered
the town of Monmouth ; and from thence, following the
coast, reached the town of Cardiff, which was a port of con-
siderable importance. The course of the railway would then
be entirely a straight line to Neath, a very large mineral dis-
trict. From Neath, the line traversed a rich agricultural
mineral country to Swansea, from whence fully three-quarters of the
entire copper used for manufacture was exported. The line then
proceeded from Llanethly to Carmarthen, towards which town was a
large converging of population and commerce ; it hence travelled
west from Carmarthen to Milford Haven on to Fisbguard, from
whence the distance across the channel to Wexford was
seventy miles. It was very important that a more
effectual communication between London and Ireland should
exist, as the present means of communication round Holyhead
was exceedingly inconvenient. The railway would also conduce
very considerable to promote the commercial interests of Ireland,
as regarded Wales and England. It could not fail to strike the
Committee how important it must be to obtain a nearly direct com-
munication between Fishguard and the ports of Waterford and
Wexford. Wales and Ireland would be mutually benefited.
The strong opinion that had been expressed by the
Commissioners of the Board of Trade as to the advan-
tages of the proposed line, would preclude the necessity, if
any existed, of entering into any details as regarded the en.
gineering department, or as to the produce of the country
through which the line would pass. He would proceed at once to
state that the estimated cost of the centre line, including all contin.
gencies, was 2,800,0001., which sum was small when compared with
the expense of lines of a similar important nature. The passenger
traffic was expected to realisean income of 220,0001. a-year, from the
conveyance of goods the revenue would be 205,0001. ; from other
sources about ao,oeoi., making altogether a gross revenue of
450,0001. annually. The working expenses of the line bad been
calculated at 40 per cent., which, being deducted from the gross
revenue, will leave a clear net annual income of 274,0001.,
and which will yield an interest on the capital exceeding
nine per cent. There were three branches on the line,
one of which was called the Pembroke branch, and was 19
miles in length ; the second extended from Newport to Mon.
mouth, and was 19 miles long, where it combines with the
Hertford and Monmouth line, and the third branch, which was
7 miles in length, traversed the Forest of Dean and also united with
the Hereford and Monmouth Railway, It was proposed to make
a navigable cut across the bend of the river where
the railway would pass. The Lords of the Ad-
miralty had demurred to the proposed scheme only with
hesitation. The Commissioners of the Severn Navigation were
satisfied the proposed mode of crossing the river would not be
injurious. The Board of Commissioners of the Woods and
Forests were strongly desirous that the line should be made, and
the Board of Trade had decided it was desirable to be made, so
that these three important and influential bodies are all pressing
in its favour. The only persons who were likely to be effected by
the construction of the bridge were those who were located above the
crossing, and it would appear in evidence that these individuals
were all unopposed to the project intended. The canal on the
side of the Severn would, without doubt, tend considerably to pro.
mote the traffic on the river, and would be a beneficial interference
There was little or no opposition on the line, for on the 215 miles
of railway there were only 15 miles opposed by landowners. The
Learned Gentleman concluded his address by observing that he
had left all details of an engineering nature entirely out of view,
but he was satisfied he had stated enough to convince the Commit-
tee that the preamble of the Bill ought to be passed.
The CHAIRMAN then said—l suppose, Mr. Austin, you have seen
the letter from the Admiralty.
Mr. AUSITN—Yes, Sir.
The CHAIRMAN observed he was authorised in saying that that
communication had been confirmed by a subsequent intimation from
the Admiralty.

Sir T. 'PHILLIPS called Mr. Buckland, of Swansea, as the first
witness—He deposed generally as to the mineral traffic of South
Wales, and the great advantage a railway communication would
afford in opening up markets for the disposal of the produce. The
further examination of the witness was postponed till to-morrow,
and the Committee adjourned.

GROUP QQ.
ASHTON, STALEYBRXDGE, AND LIVER-
POOL JUNCTION RAILWAY—(ARDIVICIC
BRANCH).
This Committee met for the first time to-day, at one o'clock,
Mr. Round in the chair, when the Ashton, Staleybridge, and
Liverpool Junction (Ardwick Branch), was entered into.
Mr. HILDYARD opened the case on behalf of the projectors of
this branch line, which is proposed to be taken from a point near
to the terminus of the Leeds and Manchester Railway in Man.
chester, to the terminus of the Manchester and Birmingham line
in Ardwick, one mile and a half in length, thus connecting together
the latter line and the Ashton and Staleybridge with all the other
lines at present radiating from Manchester. There were no en-
gineering difficulties, and the cost was estimated at 60,0001.,
on
which, the tables of traffic proposed would show an ample return.
There was no opposition to the preamble of the Bill.
Mr. Silverwood, Mr. Opeeshaw, engineer, and Mr. Carver, were
examined very briefly in support of the preamble, when the Com-
mittee decided that it was proved.
The clauses of the Bill were then taken into consideration, and
agreed to without any apposition, with the exception of one, which was
opposed by Mr. MALINS, on the part of Mr. Bennett. This clause
is one sought to be introduced by the Corporation of Manchester,
giving them the right of making a street, eight yards wide, from
Chancery-lane to Princes-street, close to, and alongside of, the
railway, and upon the land of Mr. John Bennett. The objection to
the clause was, that It was an unjustifiable Interference with the
right of private property, and would interfere with Mr. Bennett
using his property for the erection of mills and warehouses.
Evidence was called in support of the objection, when the
matter was compromised by substituting the word "road " for
" street," and reducing the width from eight to four yards.
The report was then agreed to, and the Committee adjourned.

THE SUN, LONDON, TVESDAY E VEXING JUNE 10, 1845.

Lord Lurgan deposed as to the trade between Armagh and
Newry. The trade was very considerable, and likely to increase,
were this railway formed. The feeling was generally in favour of
this line.
Sir John Rennie, civil engineer, gave evidence as to the survey_
ing of the line,
.which he executed in October last at the desire of
the Company. The line was 71. miles 55 chains long_ The
distance from Newry and Armagh was 22i miles. Three
miles of this portion of the line had a gradient of I
in 81. The severest of the remaining gradients were 1 in 102,
lin 150, and lin 140, respectively. The other gradients were
of a very slight character. The gradient of 1 in 81 was near to
the Armagh station, arid would not at all interfere with the swift
progress of the trains. If at any time there was a heavy train
passing, from the proximity of the station an extra engine could

easily be got, There were much less gradients worked by locomo-
tives. One on the Gloucester and Birmingham of two miles in
length was 1 in 37, and the inclined plane at the Euston station
of the London and Birmingham was lin 65. The deepest
cutting was 75 feet. There was only one tunnel on the whole line,
of 310 yards in length. There were no engineering difficulties;
and the roost expensive part of the line was between Newry and
Armagh, which he estimated at 15,5001. per mile. The whole
capital was 900,0001., which he considered amply sufficient for all
purposes. The line at the Newry terminus was only four feet
above the quay. The Belfast Junction was crossed about three
miles from Newry.

Mr. BROWN put in the traffic tables, from which it was estimated
that the annual receipts of the line would be 102,489/., which,
after deducting 33 per cent. for the working of the line, and inte-
rest on borrowed capital, would leave 6 per cent. on the capital of
the shareholders. This was taking the traffic at the very lowest
estimate. The portion of the line between Newry and Armagh
would yield at least 8 per cent.
This closed the evidence on behalf of the line.

At this stage of the proceedings, Mr. ALEXANDER, on the part
of the Newry and Enniskillen Company, stated that, before going
further there was a difficulty to be overcome respecting the clauses
of their Bill regarding the formation of the joint railway from
Clones to Enniskillen. They objected to the clauses as drawn up
for insertion in the Dundalk and Enniskillen Bill, providing that
each Company should construct one-half of the line, and considered
it would be much better formed by a joint committee acting for both
companies.

marks, but not for the purpose of relying upon them as a principal
point In his case.

The CIIAIIIOdAN thought it better If he dropped the Barnsley ani
Ashton traffic altogether.

Mr. AUSTIN agreed to do so, and Mr. Wilkins then withdrew
his opposition.

Mr. Brown, a coal and salt merchant, living at Masberough, was
then examined. He was a manager of the goods traffic on the
Don Navigation from 1829 to 1829. His province was to receive
the dues at Rotherham. The supply of water on the Don Navi-
gation for the last eighteen months was very bad. Two days were
at present occupied in passing between Rotherham and Goole.
The distance was thirty-eight miles, and the carriage of goods cost
Gs. Bd. to 7s. per ton. The witness then proceeded to give evi-
dence on the difficulties of the Don Navigation, and the traffic
which at present existed in that district, all of which have been
already referred to in Mr. Austin's opening speech. He consi.
dered that the proposed line would be of great advantage. The
people of Sheffield were all favourable to it.
Messrs. PICKERING and Buss cross-examined this witness at
considerable length ; after which,
The CHAIRMAN asked if there were many more witnesses to
be examined ?
Mr. POLLOCK replied that there werc a considerable number, but
the time of the Committee would not be occupied unnecessarily.
The Custamsx then ordered the room to be cleared, and the
Committee remained in consultation for about a quarter of an
hour.

On our re-admission,
The CHAIRMAN requested Mr. Austin, the leading counsel in
the case, to be sent for.
Mr. Austin, having been engaged in addressing another Com-
mittee, could not make it convenient to attend.

Mr. Muttptiv, on behalf of the Dundalk and Enniskillen Com.
pany, replied that the understanding between the two engineers
when the agreement was drawn up, was, that each company should
join 12 separate miles of the 24 miles from Clones to Enniskillen.
A joint committee he considered would lead to interminable diffi-
culties.

The CHAIRMAN then said that the Committee found it would be ex.
ceedingly difficult to come to a satisfactory conclusion with re-
spect to the proposed lime. There wer• three schemes at present
before Committees, the decision on which would materially in-
fluence the Committee as to the course they should adopt with the
proposed line. In the first place there was the Swinton branch to
Doncaster; secondly, the proposed Sheffield and Gainsborough branch;
and, thirdly, and above all, the projected London and York line,
which would run side by side with the proposed line, at many
points not more than 2i miles distant. He did not mean to say how
far any of the projected lines would, if carried, interfere with the de-
cision of the Committee as to the proposed line, but he would suggest
the propriety of withdrawing the proposed line for the present, and
suspending any further proceedings with it till another session. He
would be glad that Mr. Pollock would consult with Mr. Austin
till to-morrow, as to the course they should think right to adopt
under the circumstances, and communicate their intentions to the
Committee by to-morrow morning.
Mr. Pommes assented to the proposal of the Chairman.
The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

After a lengthened conversation,
The CHAIRMAN stated that the Committee were of opinion that
the 24 miles between Clones and Enniskillen would be best formed
by a combined committee, and they further considered that
the clauses to be proposed, in conformity with this arrange •
ment, should be submitted to the Board of Trade previous to their
being brought before the Committee at their next meeting.
The Committee then adjourned till Wednesday, at the usual hour.

GROUP X.
CAMBRIDGE AND LINCOLN LINE.

The evidence of Mr. Rendall (continued from our Afternoon Edition
of yesterday)—
The cross-examination next referred to the cuttings on the datum
line. On the 16th mile from Cambridge, where it would cross the
"great wash," there was a discrepancy discovered by the
Counsel between the actual height of the cutting and
the distance marked on the datum line, by which it
appeared that this line, if carried out in accordance with
the section, would pass at a distance of ten feet under the bank of
the Great Wash. (Some discussion arose on this point, as to whe-
ther the question ought to be put, but the Committee allowed it,
and the witness said that such a work could not, in fact, be done).
Mr. Sergeant WRANGIJAM said that, with such evidence, he
would contend that it would be idle for the Committee to enter
any further upon the investigation of this line, for if it even re.
ceived the Royal assent to-morrow, it could never be proceeded
with, owing to this fatal objection. The Learned Counsel then
proceeded to read the Standing Orders, applicable to his objection.
Mr. HILDYARD said that it was distinctly understood between
all the counsel that all Standing Order objections should be waived,
and that they should fight out the Bills on their merits. However,
his application to the Committee now was that they should proceed
with the inquiry, and that this objection was met by a clause in the
general Act, by which no work could be proceeded with until
any additional proposed alterations should be intimated to the
clerks of the peace, &c.; and this difficulty might be proposed to
be met, either by a trough, or by deepening th beds of the river.
Besides, the Committee had the power to ordee the insertion of a
clause to rectify this inaccuracy, which he conrtended was nothing
more than a technical objection. Whether the House rf Com-
mons would approve of the alteration or not, was another question ;
but certainly the Committee had the power to do so.
At the close of the discussion the room was ordered to be
cleared , and the Committee remained in consultation three-quar-
ters of an hour, at the expiration of which period the parties were
re-admitted, and

The CHAIRMAN stated, that the Committee considered this to be
a question of such great importance, that they would take until to-
morrow to decide, and that they would announce that decision at

one o'clock.

They then adjourned at five o'clock.

HOUSE of LORDS.—(YESTERDAY,

RAILWAY BILLS.
The Chester and Holyhead and the Leeds and Bradford Railway
Extension (Shipley to Colnes) Bills came before Lord Shaftesbury
in Committee at half-past five this evening. The Bills being
unopposed, went through ; they come on again to-morrow, how.
ever, to have some slight alteration of a few clauses.
These were the only Railway Bills before his Lordship to-day,