The Sun.
London, England, 1829-02-06 00:00:00

MANIFESTATION OF

PUBLIC FEELING AT LEICESTER,
IN FAVOUR OF CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.

MEETING OF THE CONSTITUENTS OF MR. OTWAY CAVE,

PREVIOUS' TO MS DEPARTURF. FOR PARLIAMENT.

On Wednesday a Meeting took place at Leicester, pur-
suant to a hand-hill which had been circulated by Mr.
Otway Cave, inviting his constituents to a public &immi-
gration of their sentiments on the most important ques-
tions which are expected to be brought forward in the en-
suing Session of Parliament. The Meeting, in the first
instance, assembled in a large room in Mr. Baby's ware-
house, but the numbers increased to such an extent that it
was deemed necessary to adjourn to the open. air. In ex-
pectation of this a stage had been erected from the floor of
the upper warehouse, and !early 4,000 persons assembled
in the area below. On the motion of Mr. Bankart, sesionded
by Mr. Colsten, Mr. 0. Cave was called to the Chair, and
Mr. Brewin said a tew words on the object of the Aleeting.
Mr. Cave then came forward, and proposed the following
Resolutions, which had been handed to him :
" That the arbitrary levy of the borough rate exceeds in
amount the King's taxes, that it deteriorates the value of
the property in this borough, and renders it insecure and
unsaleable.

" That being misrepresented in our close mid self-elected
corporation, we request our representative in Parliament,
Mr. 0. Cave, to compel our corporate officers to render a
distinct account of their public receipts and expenditure,
in compliance with the order of the House of Commons,
which has hitherto been evaded on the most false and
frivolous pretences.
" That we also request our representative to support any
Bill that may prevent the application of any corporate
funds to electioneering purpmes, such application being a
breach of trust as regards the public, and a breach of
privilege as regards the House of Commons, and
moreover a secret cause of our enormous, unnecessary, and
increasing local taxation.

" That the Corn Laws are a mischievous and intolerable
monopoly, originating in the ignorant rapacity of the
oligarchy, and in the subjection of Government to a con-
spiracy of land and burgh holders. That the lords of the
soil are not benefit►ed by them to any thing like the degree
that they suppose, and that all other classes in the State
(including the agricultural) are injured by therm
" That they are avowedly a tax on the many for the sup-
port of the privileged few, a real and permanent evil to
the unprotected, the industrious, and the poor, for the
momentary or imaginary advantage of the powerful, the
idle, and the rich ; a drain on the resources of the country,
contrary to every principle of political science or justice,
utterly indefensible by any reference to reason, and a wicked
attempt to counteract the beneficent decrees of Providence.
" That the Game Laws arc a remnant of feudal barbarism,
a source of crime and misery, expence, and nuisance to the
country, causing the peasantry to hate the Aristocracy and
to find the means of resistance to their authority, Grailiariz-
ing their minds to outrages against law, and teaching them
the secret of their strength in arms, organization, and
numbers.

" That the sentence of civil death, anti mental and bodily
degradation, passed by our Colonial Legislature against
800,000 British subjects forcibly held iu slavery, by local
usurpation and tyranny, is unconstitutional, unnatural, and
unlawful. That to tolerate any pretence to property in
the flesh and blood of their fellow-creatures, is a deep
disgrace to the Government of a civilized and Christian
community, established without distinction of colour, for
the protection of all who live under it, which lately sent
its fleet to punish that practice at Algiers, which it main-
tains by its fleets and armies, and also by bounties, to its
Colonies. That to deprive of that liberty which is. their
birthright innocent human beings is robbery. That to kill
them for attempting in any way to resist that robbery is
murder. That should the British Legislature refuse to
guarantee their liPerktiop, these British subjecti.will, be
justified before God-and man, in resorting to any means
necessary for the recovery of their natural and inalienable
rights, and in freeing themselves by force from a thraldom
to which force alone has subjected them.
" That for the sake of saving from retribution our Weet
India Colonists themselves, and from manners brutalizing
and demoralizing no less to the master than to the slave,
for the sake of our starving manufacturers and our depress-
ed commercialists and agriculturists, taxed in their com-
forts and necessaries of life, for the maintenance of an im-
provident speculation, and a perpetual and daily crime,
Parliament be petitioned to abrogate all protecting duties
and premiums for the cultivation of sugar by slave labour.
"That the House of Lords, in numberless and recent oc-
casions have shewn themselves to be ignorant of the rudi-
ments of legislation, of what they owe to their dignity and
station, and in all questions mere particularly demanding
a delicacy and forbearance from them, to be actuated
by views and motives the most narrow, most vulgar,
1 and most interested. That their uncalled-for menace,
with regard to their order, their eagerness to sanction
every outrage on the Constitution, and crush every at-
tempt to ameliorate the hard condition of the people, must,
if persisted in, deprive them of all title to the respect and
confidence of the working classes, who, if otherwise treat-
ed, would look up to them as their natural friends and
protectors.
"That our gratitude is therefore the more due to the few
enlightened Noblemen, who, notwithstanding all these
(faculties and disadvantages, and in opposition to a cla-
morous and venal majority, still raise their voice in behalf
of the rights of Englishmen, and continue to fight the
battles of truth, freedom, and humanity.
" That we view with suspicion and mortification the re-
cent change in our foreign policy ; that we believe both
the honour and interests of this country to be bound up
with the independence and improvement of other nations,
more especially of these who were our allies in our days of
danger and emergency; that the virtual expulsion from
our shores of the loyal and constitutional Portuguese, in
seeming subserviency to the views of continental aggres-
sion and despotism ; that the neglect of the persons and
property of our merchants, in the case of the blockade of
Oporto, Madeira, and the Dardanelles, appear like a price
paid by our Qoyerotnent of submission to insult, injury,
mid destruction of the balance of power abroad, for per-
mission to' trample with impunity at home on the aggrieved
and unoffending inhabitants of a sister Island.
" That for the refOrm of all those abuses which impo-
verish and degrade our country, we cannot look to a House
of Commons, the majority of whose Members are interesied
in their existence, and although we do not despair of find-
ing some few among them who shall expose, if they cannot
frustrate, the machinations of A' borough-mongering fac-
tion, and shall contribute, not merely by occasional perio-
dical orations, but by continual argument and remonstrance,
t 9. Womate a thorough reform of the People's House of
Parliament, we place our great reliance on popular exer-
tions and meetings, and constant and universal agitation of
I the question.

"That the restoring ourCatholic`fellow subjects to the
rights of citizenship is no less an act of justice than state
policy, inasmuch as the present state of persecution distracts
the Councils of his Majesty, prevents the consideration of
questions vitally affiectutg the interests of the Empire, en-
daugcr4. ptacv of the sister kingdom, requiring an enor-
coto standing army, and thereby causing additional bur-
thens upon an oppressed and impoverished people, inter-
rupting the channels of industry, depreciating property,
and rendering the fertile lands of Ireland comparatively
barren."

Those Resolutions were afterwards put singly,, am car-
ried unanimously, excepting now ex,d then one hand ap-
pearing in the crowd..
Air. Q. 5pi:,1.41-411 CuLLEN then came forward, and
wi4,though -he should feel pleasure in addressing them, be
would have preferred, in the first instance, hearing the
opinion of some individuals among themselves, as many
would be found quite as clear upon the subject as himself;
but be hoped he should not leave Leicester withont
ing speeches, which for intelligence and spirit, would equal
those he had read six weeks age. In Parliamentary Re-
form, three things would corAe under consideration, and,
first in the list, wo4l he domestic grievances. Leicester
had 4 corrupt Corporation, but if it had been properly re-
presented in the House of Commons, it would, long ere
this, have got rid of the oppression of that body. In the
second place, there was the poverty of the people, which
would have been removed by a true representative assem-
bly ; and, thirdly, he would refer to thisufferings of the Irish,
whose grievances would have met with ready redress if the
Members of the House of Commons had acted with firmness
and honesty. Some persons might ask what he (Mr. C.)
knew of the Corporation of Leieester-? First, .he knew

that the inhabitants were about 4.0,000, and of these 10,000
were householders, all equally interested in having proper.
representatives, 0n1y,5,000, however, possessed the power
of voting, and the influence of these was rendered null
by an usurued authority, and not a right exercised by the
honorary Freemen, and who cannot, as honourable men
and pat;lots,:exclude their brethren, and disfranchise the
resident, inhabitants. There were 800 honorary Free-
mere__(A voice in the crowd, " the Unholy Alliance.")—
Well, let it he the Unholy Alliance ; one hundred of them
were Clergymen. No Corporation in England acted so
much against the law as Leicester, nor was there one to
be found in which one hundred Clergymen degraded
their pious vocation to the purposes of dirty intrigue,
and extending the power of an illegal Corpora-
tion, making themselves the mean tool of a meaner
tool than all who is their instrument or guide, whe-
ther top or bottom, he did not care of such an illegal
firction.—(Applause.)—The proper right of voting was
vested in the resident freemera, and though he would not
deprive the non-residents of the right of voting, yet let
them enjoy it for the plate in:which they dwelt. They
would not, however, deserve redress if they returned their
next members as they returned their last, that was, so that
while Mr. 0. Cave was pelting at Peel on one side, and had
got his bead into Chancery, the• other member should trip
up his heels just as lie was milling Peel tin their satisfac-
tion/ On one occasion Ire would allow thou to pull dif-
ferent ways, the boroughmongers should have one neck
with a rope round it ; be would give one end to Mr.
0 Cave and the other end to their other member, and then
they ntight pull against each other as long as they pleased.
—(Cheering.)—Mr. C. then drew a feeling picture of the
state of the county and of pauperism, as the parent of crime,
which pauperism proceeded from excessive taxation, and
one of the members of his Majesty's Government had in-
sulted the country, and the best firebugs; of its population,
by proposing expulsion from their native land as a remedy ;
but would this have been submitted to had there been a
man in the House of Commons to have treated the de-
testable and tyrannical proposition with the execration that
it merited, he would repeat a passage from Algernon Syd-
ney which applied to the subject:—
" Again there was another way of killing worse than
that of the sword, for as (Catholic) Tertullian says upon
a different occasion, to forbid birth is to kill, and those Go-
vernments are in the highest degree guilty of blood, which,
by taking from men the means of living, bring some to
perish through want, drive others out of the country, and
generally dissuade men from marriage by taking from them
all ways of subsisting themselves."
Modern philosophers and political economists might say
one country was as good as another, but he thought with
the Poet and all true patriots--
To deem of every country as the same,
Is rank rebellion 'gaiust the lawful claim
Of Nature, and such dull indifference,
May be philosophy, but can't be sense.
He would call upon them in the most solemn manner
to abisle by their native land, and if they could not
live in it, to die in it, and for it. Mr. C. then went
into a history of the Commonwealth, and then came to
the Catholic Question—seven or eight millions of Irish
were asking for those rights which their blood had been
spent in maintaining. There they are at the doors of the
House claiming admission, and the House answers them,
" forswear your oaths, and cast away religion, and then
you shall become the agreeable companions of our revels,
and he the partakers of our tithes, our taxes, and our
tyrannies." Mr. C. then detailed the various liberties
which the Catholics obtained, and the progress of the
reformation, and declared that in the present day his
friend, Lord Killeen, had been compelled to quit his do-
mestic habits, and though a more amiable man did not
exist, to become an agitator. He noticed especially that
the Dissenters of the revolution of 1683 had united with
the Church of England against the Catholics ; but that
recently, the Catholics of Ireland had exhibited the roost
beautiful example of Christian conduct by an act of splen-
did national christianity, unparalleled in all history, by
petitioning the legislature for the emancipation of their
former enemies without stipulating for their own liberty.
If the Protestants united with the Catholics, they would
mutually join in demanding a reform in the Conunons
House of Parliament.—(Vehement applause.)
Mr. SEAL, a framework-knitter, next presented him-
self to the Meeting, and declared that he came forward
with diffidence, but " England expected every man to do
his duty," and as the proverb says, " he who does his
best, does well,"so he would fearlessly discharge the obli-
gations he owed his children and his country. The vile
detestable organ of the corporation had dared to call him
" a raggatnuffin " (applause), and the society to which he
belonged " filthy vermin," but he would dare the base
calumniator to prove one immoral act of his life, and
though poor, he never turned informer to supply the wants
of his children. The same publication had called them
cowards, but he would tell the writer that he with others

bad fought and bled in the service of his country. He
was now ready to sacrifice his existence in demanding his
rights as a man and endeavouring to put down the system
of misrule. It had been said, " that their language was
too strong," but no language was tou strong that was con-
fined within the pale of the law ; he would say from the
Poet—

Sons of the free, why are you slaves ?
WLy wait to fill untimely graves ?

lie then adverted to the state of the Catholics, to the

heavy national debt, and concluded by strongly recom-
mending radical reform, which could never be until the
people returned their own Members.—(Applause.)
Mr. DIGUY (framework-knitter) said he was another
" ragamuffin" but whatever might be said nothing should
deter him from the discharge of his duty. He would ask
them would they back the Golden Lion against the Cor-
poration goose ? The Clergy were not contented with the
flesh, but they would take the marrow likewise, and when
he heard the. Rev. Gentlemen say that their religion was
the best religion, he thought that it was a very hungry one;
he implored them to unite, for tyrants dreaded union.—
Applause. )
Mr. MILLER, in a speech replete with eloquence, made
an able appeal to their judgments, and exhorted them to
unite for Catholic einancipatiou and reform in Parliament.
Mr. LILLEY made a forcible speech, and said, if they
demanded to be free, free they should be—(applause)—
he called upon them to shake off the shackles of the turtle
soup eating gentry, and return two such members as Mr.
0. Cave.
Mr. CAVE again came forward and said he had been re-
quested to propose another resolution.
" That our Representative Mr. 0. Cave be instructed to
support Catholic Emancipation."
He continued, " with every word that has been said on
the present occasion I cordially coincide., and heartily re-
joice in the change of sentiment that has taken place among
the people of Leicester. I agree with all those who say
that this is not a question of religion, and that there is no
question, the settlement of which more vitally interests the
people of England, and more particularly the working
classes, who pay in every penny that is laid on the neces-
saries of the existence for the maintenance of a monstrous
Church Establishment, a Church without a congregation,
and a sham fight got up in Ireland between Protestant and
Catholic nominally, but really for the support of a faction
that tramples upon both. In deference to the opinion of
the majority, when 1 gust became candidate for the Borough,
I consented to resnain neutral as far as my vote went on
the Catholic question. But I openly avowed myself to
be favccurahle to Catholic emancipation, although in de-
, fre.uce to the feeling that then existed among you, I
stated that I should not vote on the question at all,
but I now consider it to have assumed within the last six
months a form altogether new, It is no longer a question
of the admission ofCatholim to civil rights, but whether
both Protestants and Qatholics, whether the Parliament
and Government, were. to be under the dominion of the re-
volutionary Bronawiek Clubs. (Great applause.) If you
think our still bowl to neutrality, am ready to resign
into your bands at this moment the trust you have confided
to me ; and should there be any one here present who en-
tertains opinions of this nature, I hope that that he will
put it to the vote, whether I am or am not to remain as
your Representative." (Tremendous cheering.)
The resolution was then put and carried by acclamation.
Mr. Cave then thanked the meeting for their attendance,
and was proud and happy to see them.
Mr. CULLEN again appeared, and passed some severe
animadversions on the supineness of the members of West-
minster and Nottingham, and other places, and hoped the
people would rouse them from their lethargy. (Cheers.)
Mr. DAY moved a vote of thanks to Mr. Cave, which
was seconded by the Rev. Mr. Wood, and carried by ac-
clamation, and the meeting broke up with the utmost
order.—There were uptvartls of 6,000 people present.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

lIOUSE OF COMMONS-(LAST NIGHT).

The SPEAKER took his seat at four o'clock,
and informed the House, that during the recess he
had received a letter from Lord Combermere, which
acknowledged the vote of th,n►ks which the House
had been pleased to pass on his conduct in the Bur-
mese war.-1 he letter was then read.

The SPEAKER also informed the House, that
during the last Session ho had received a petition
from Hugh Massey Dillon, and other Freeholders of
the county of Clare, complaining of the undue elec-
tion of Daniel O'Connell, but the recognizances not
being entered into according to the Act of Parlia-
liament, the petition was discharged.
Sir LUCIUS O'BRIEN stated that the recog-
nizances were ordered to be entered on the 31st of
August, before which time the House adjourned.
The question was finally ordered to be further
considered on Monday next.
Several Members were then sworn previous to
taking their seats.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR gave notice, that on Tues-
day next he should move for returns of the exact
state of the Court of Chancery.
Mr. PLANTA moved for several new writs,
for the following places:—For the Borough
of Plymouth, in the room of Sir G. Cockburn ;
for the City of Edinburgh, in the room of Sir G.
Clarke ; for the City of Colchester, in the room of
Sir J. Graham ; for the Borough of East Grim-
stead, in the room of the lion. Mr. Jenkinson, who
has been called to the House of Peers.

The SPEAKER then acquainted the House that
lie had been to the House of Peers to hear his Ma-
jesty's Speech read by Commission, and of which,
to prevent mistakes, he had obtained a copy•
The SPEAKER then read his Majesty's Speech.

Lord CLIVE rose to move the Address. After
some introductory observations, he alluded to the
discussions of a question which had agitated the
kingdom from one end to the other—he meant the
Catholic Question, which had produced the present

distressed condition of the sister island. It was not
necessary to enter into the political history of the
Union between the two kingdoms ; for the objects
he had iu view, it would be merely necessary to
review the proceedings of the last six mouths.
Since last last session the sister kingdom had
been agitated by two great parties. It rested with
his Majesty's Ministers, under such a state of the
country, to de something, in order to allay the in-
flammation; and he believed there was only one
course, for he had no doubt every one must have
observed that they could no longer remain inactive.
He thought they had adopted not only the most
constitutional, but the wisest course in advising
their Royal Master to follow the plan which he had
necessarily adopted. In fact he considered that
something was necessary for the liberty of this
country, and had adopted a course which would be
beneficial to the country, and
~at the same time
possible. With regard to his Majesty's pre-
sent Ministers, he knew no men in whom he
had greater confidence, or with whom he
would more readily, and he Dusted with greater
safety, entrust the Protestant Constitution,
of this country. He felt that something should be
done, if it could be done with security to the great
mass of the people. He felt that more or
less the intemperate discussion of the Catholic
Association had been the cause of the evils which

now oppressed Ireland. It kept up a perpetual
discord between the Catholic and Protest-
ant inhabitants. He was glad the Mini-
ster had had the firmness to tell the As-
sociation that they should not continue their
existing courses, nor act as they had done for
the last six - months.
_He hoped, therefore, that

In the Address which he should have the

honour of proposing, he should have the support
of the House. There never was a better or safer

time (he thought) at which the Catholic Ques-
tion could be discussed, than the present. He was
certain that the Protestants could never see two
persons in the Administration on whom they could
place greater reliance than his Right Hon. Friend,
and the Noble Duke at the head of it. (Hear.) The
Ministers saw that it was impossible for the country
to continue longer in its present state, and he had
no doubt that they would now take such course
as they wonld deem expedient for the general
advantage. If he looked abroad he was more than
ever convinced of the propriety of discussing the
Catholic Question at the present time. lie
confessed he entirely approved of the recommendation of his
Majesty's Government, viz. that part of the Speech iu
which the intention was expressed to put down the Catlin-
' tic Association, for he was certain that more of the evils
Ireland suffered, arose from the existence of that body than
from any other cause ; and it was utterly impossible that
any steps could he taken to calm Ireland until it was sup-
pressed. The Catholic Association had alarmed the whole
Protestant population of Ireland, and had induced them to
unite themselves into clubs, which, much as lie regretted
the fact, he was compelled to admit were almost necessary
in their self-defence, after the denunciations which the Ca-
tholic Body had issued against them. It was at the time
when his Majesty's Government showed a determination to

bring the existence of this body to a serious issue, that they

should recommend the consideration of the civil disabilities
under which his illajesty's Roman Catholic Subjects la-
boured. He was glad to have an opportunity to pay a de-
served compliment to that high-minded Nobleman' who
had acted in vindication of the Catholic population, and
who had shown himself anxious to promote their welfare,
and secure for them the full advantages of the British Con-
stitution. These were sentiments, he trusted, that Noble
Lord would never forget, as he had so often expressed
them. Upholding the dignity of a British Peer, lie yet
bad the respect of all the Protestants of *hat' Country.—
(Hear, hear.)—The Speech bad ihfiinned' them that the
King " continues 'to receive from- the Allies, and generally
from all Princes and State., the assurance of their un-
abated desire to continue the most friendly relations with
his Majesty." No further back than during the last year
in how many beneficent arrangements for mankind- bad his
Majesty participated ? Under his mediation is treaty of
peace had been conclu3lal between the Emperor of Brazil
and the republic of Buenos Ayres. His Majesty had also
entered into negociations with the view of settling: the
difficulties now existing in Portugal. The steps taken in
coojunction with his Allies, for the paciticatitin of Greece
had been successful. His Majesty had also succeeded in.
concluding a convention with Spain, for the settlements
of British claims on that country. It Pardainent tend.
advantage of this opportunity, which it could never hope
to better, this perplexing question might be easily and
fire ever set at rest. He trusted he might be allowed to
call the attention of those who were not aware of the
anarchy this subject introduced into Ireland to the
solemn manner in Which his gracious Majesty an-
nounced his intention to have a full, perfect, and complete
inquiry into the propriety of continuing the disabilities
under which our Roman Catholic fellow-subjects laboured.
He would call their attention also to his Majesty's Speech,
as evidence of the serious sentiments imprinted on the mind
of his Majesty, who had directed this Colmoullication to be

made to Parliament ; and he could not forbear fram
verting to the delicacy with which his Majesty, while he
urged the House to consider the state of his RoMan Catho-
lic subjects, pointed out the situation in which he stood as
the constitutional guardian of the Protestant Establish-
ments of the land. He would only further refer to the
eloquent words immediately preceding this passage, which
the Noble Lord read from the King's Speech. The Noble
Lord concluded by moving an Address tohis Majesty,
which was an echo of the Speech.
Lord CORRY then rose to Second the Address.
After what had been so well and so ably said by the
Noble Lord who preceded him, the observa-
tions he would address to the House would
be very short and very few—relative to the principal
topics in his Majesty's most gracious Speech. It was.
gratifying for the House and the country that the peace of
Europe was not likely to be disturbed. This ought to be.
attributed to the great ability of his Majesty's Ministers,
and the pacific course of policy which they have adopted.
It Was not his intention to allude to the unfortunate dis-.
pates which existed and were carried on between the'
Russian and Turkish forms. Ile much lamented it as an
unfortunate circumstance, but did not meals to enlarge upon
that subject. He would next adv., t to the Treaty of the
6th of July, 1827. It was very gratifying to learn
that the Mecca was now cleared of the Egyptian forces, and
that the evacuation was effecte I without the effusion
of blood, and that the greatest cordiality still existed
between the contracting powers.—(lfear, bear.)--lle
not much longer detain the House, but felt
called upon to say a few words upon a subject of great im-
portance, he meant tke improvement which had taken pace
in the revenue, which showed the resources of the coun-
try. It was likewise a subject of great congratulation to
the House that his Majesty's Ministers, notwithstatoing-
an increased revenue, had diminished as much as possible
the public expenses in every department.—(Hear, hear.)
The last topic to which he would allude was, that of un-
fortunate Ireland.—(ffear, from all parts of the House.)
He felt called upon to address some observations upon that
part of the Speech. In the first place, it must afford
great satisfaction to the country that his Majesty
had recommended measures to be taken for putting
down the Catholic Association.—(Lond cries of Hear.)—
As long as that unconstitutional body was suffered to exist,
anarchy and confusion must desolate Ireland. It called
forth the worst passions of the mind, and if not
put down must tend to the subversion of all order and
.good government in that country.--H(Laud ' cries of"
hear, hear, hear.)--.The Association could not be
tolerated:---it must bend to the law. in carrying
this great measure into effect lie felt confident that few
members in that House would refuse their assistance.—
(Cries of hear, hear, bear.)---Ile would merely say a
few words on that important part of the Speech, which
recommended a revision of the penal laws, and the dis-
abilities under which the Roman Catholics laboured.
His opinion on that subject was registered by the vote
he haul given on every Occasion when any Bill had been
brought forward. It was well known that he was a
zealous opposer of emancipation. He .bad opposed'
every Bill that was brought fin ward heretofore
because he never thought they had proposed meth-
' cient securities.—(Hear, hear.)—lt was for these rea-
sons that he had opposed the Bill last Session.
But looking at Ireland tier the last twelve months—.
the state of party feeling in that unhappy coun-
try—almost lewdering on civil war—he must con-
fess that time time had arrived when something
must be done. Even if he had entertained a contrary
opinion, when he saw the noble Duke at the head of his
Majesty's Government, and the Home Secretary of State'
those Noble Champions of the Protestant cause—when
he found that they were convinced sonic attempt was
necessary to settle that long-agitated question; he should
have felt called upon to give way to such authority. He,
however, was of the same opinion with them, and was con- •
vinced something must be done.—(Loud cries of Hear.)_
Whilst he admitted this, he would not pledge himself to
vote for an uuqualitied repeal of the laws. As a
sincere lover of his country, and wishing to remain
in peace, he heartily wished to see the question settled,
while he should sit down, reserving to himself the right of
not voting for any Bill in whielt securities were not provided.
Sir J. YOItKE said that iu the olden time of Napoleon
Buonaparte, or in the modern time of Daniel O'Con-
nell, a more politic speech, or one which in his
mind had produced greater feelings of joy, he
had never beard.—(Cheers.)—That Government should
have at last taken up this measure was most satisfactory to
his mind. The speech was most comprehensive, embracing
all nations, all subjects, all sizes, and all sorts. (Laughter.)
It took in the Ottoman Porte and the Catholic Association.

---
(Great laughter.) There was, however, something in it
joyoui to them, and something' also no less joyous to the'
country. It was with joy they would hear that
the finances of the country were in a flourishing
condition, and that economy was to be the order of
the day. With respect to the great question, he would
pass it over for the present, especially after the way in
which it had been taken up by the Noble Lord who had
seconded the Address--a way which did infinite honour to
him as an Irishman, as well as for the facility and manner
in which he had treated the subject.--(Hear.)—He must
say that he had never heard a more moderate harangue;
he had never heard a better one. The manner in which
that Noble Lord had performed his task was guarded and
circumspect, for he did not say that he was prepared to g►o
the whole length of what might be proposed, but reserved
to himself the right to make such exceptions as he might
think fit. Such was the case with him (Sir J. Yorke), and
he should wish to consider the whole proposal before he
pledged himself to anything, though he was at the same
time satisfied, that when the Ministry of the country thought
it right to concede the point, he for one ought to give way.
—lf the Catholic Association had any brains, the very
moment they read the King's Speech—(vast cheering)
they would shut up their doors—(loud and long conti-
nued cheering)—and place upon them one of Bratnah's
best patent locks (great laughter and cheering), and a key
which could never be turned again by the word agitation.
(Cheers.) He should now make way for greater orators,
and would only say in addition, that as it was at last re-
solved to make Ireland what it ought to be, he would go
heart and hand in every effort to effect that desirable ob-
ject.--(Great cheers.)

Mr. BANKES then rose and said that before the House
ei
agreed to the address prepared, he had to request some ex-
s s
aple,ipalraguio. taiao(nl s —sn eaaard general
.)
T he wordy of
the
Was
it inten-
tion of Government again to take the whole question into
their consideration with a view to granting concession?—
enough.dd trie,e
If this was their intention, he desired to know what
it was that they proposed? The House had a right to
know it, and the country had a right, through their Re-
presentatives, to be informed of it. Ile should have
thought, if it had not been for the rumours which had
reached him, that the Speech contained a sufficient pledge
that the Protestant faith should be maintained inviolate.
(Hear, hear.) He was unwilling to believe that it
might be otherwise ; but he desired to 'know if those •rti
motirs had any foundation. He was unwilling to believe
that they could be true, unltss he • should 'hear it from
themselves —(lrear.)—He blamed not those who took a
different view of the subject from what he did, but when he
saw a violent and sudden change of opinion, without a ch'..nge,
of circumstances to justify it. (Hear, heir, and laughter.)
He repeated the words confidently,—without a change a
circumstances to justify it, he thought it somewhat ex •
raordinary. (Hear, hear.) Was not the existence of
he Catholic Association (he asked) a crying grievance
four yews ago? Was not a statute then• framed hi order to
put it4loWn? and if that statute was not effective, was
it not the duty of Government to have asked the Pat lit.
went to strengthen tlirir hands for the purpose of putting.
it down effectually ?--(Hear, hear. )--He called on them
to answer-a-Plain question. It appeared as if cencessiona
were tohcl made, and as if in consideration of that the
Asociatipn 'was to be put down. This latter seemed to
laled door done
ft
os
r emancipationre. Ireland.__(
he the compromise, and if so, he could only say that it
f
was a bige one.—(Loud cheers.) so, treasork
been, and it was
)tlr olur
811 opened
ihteiaoß
Catholics)
ioi
done
its work, and the, speech they bad heard was the se_
sult.,—(Chrers.) Though words of the address
pleelged him' to nothing,, t;till. befcre giving his vote, he
should ask it it was the intention to give political power to
the Roman Catholics ; and, aboye till, to allow them to sit
in the two Houses, of Pail,itrat,? He was sure that
if this was their intention, the Ptatia.tant Church of Ira_
laud could not stand (ori many years.after•that concession.
wiA4 for an „Ons we r to this • question, as
Ilia conduct vow 01 be regulated s. )
Sic ROIWIT INGLISsaid that he was perfectly aware
thlt to consider, nwant to consider--(Lond•langlitee)._
but he would appeal tu.the lion. Member fur Westrnitlitkr,
or to any. other Hon. Member who had „advocated the
measure of Catholic Emancipation, whether: -he did not
understand by the word. ,t consider" in the Spekelt
neither more nor less than concessionelteers.)—
He was entitled to ask Ministers, .who, were in.their plates,
what were their iutentions. The question was. so simple,
that no One could hesitate to give an answer, .Ind, for his
own part, he must say, that the result now witnessed way
produaed by intimidation. (Item., hear.) This was a
grave charge against Ministers, for they ought to have stop,
ped the evil m the bud, en they wiausaemi the resx.lt cif
the Oct:Cott for ( late. What might not Bats hien 11. e

eansequince if a general election had followed after-the
session bad closed. The precedent of Clare might have
keen followed in at least 23 counties in Ireland. The in-
timidation was caused by the lowest of the population, and
if not effected by sedition, it was as nearly allied to sedi-
tion as'posaible. (Hear, hear.) Before they decided on
taking the proposed measures into consideration, they had.
a right to know what the nature of them was likely to be.
Lord MILTON said, that in consequence of what had
fallen from the Ilon. Baronet, he should intrude a little-on
the patience of the House. He had never come down
to Parliament at the opening of any former Session with
such feelings of satisfaction as he then entertained. In
one moment an end was put to the magic spell, by means
of wlich it had been usual to spread alarm through the
country. The Duke of Wellington had now achieved a
victory, which if not so splendid and dazzling in vulgar
eyes as those which he bad gained upon the Conti-
nent. was at least infinitely more useful.—(Loud cheers.)
The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite also had achieved a
victory over Lis own prejudices. He used the term not
in an invidious sense, but he had aced with ho-
nour to himself in conquering those prejudices by which
he had formerly been actuated.—(Great cheering.)—He
would not enter into a nice consideration of the phraseology
of the Speech, but if he understood it correctly, two mea•
sures were to be proposed ; one to put down the Catholic
Association and the other to carry Emancipation. As to
the first of these Sills he thought it a mere non-entity,
because the Association sprung ant of the grievances of the
country, and if these were taken away, the Association
must fall to the ground. If there was a bona fide inten-
tion of granting Emancipation, the Association would
cot require to be pet down. With respect to a Bill of
that purpose, he did not approve of it. But as it was
coupled with the others, he .should be sorry that any ob-
stacle should impede it. For his own part it should have
every support he could give it.—(Cheers.)
Mr. MAURICF. FITZGERALD said that it was with
feelings of exultation that lie came down that night to the
Souse. That such a measure should emanate sooner or
later front the Duke. of Wellington gave him no sur-
prise whatever.—(Hear, hear.)—The good understanding
of his Grace would not permit.him to suffer Ireland to re-
main distracted, but it was impossible. to suppose that he
bad been at all actuated by any thing like intimi-
dation. It was poisible that lie might have been
induced to adopt the present measure by the violence of
the reaction which bad been commenced, and which threat-
ened to involve the country in a civil war. It was,
in all probability, to give a check to that career which
threatened to bring the mob of one part of the kingdom
iu conflict with the mob of the other, that his Majesty's
Government have wisely determined on the present mea-
sures. He, as an Irishman, would act disingenuously
if he did not now declare that ken this very day
forward he should himself feel that the prosperity
of Ireland was improved, that there was a greater security
for kroperty—that the lauded interest would be raised in-
calculably, and that now, for the first time, the Protestant
Establishment in Ireland was likely to rest on a solid foun-
dation.

The Marquis of CHANDOS said he should betray the
confidence reposed in him by his constituents, if be did
not at once declare his determination to oppose, to the ut-
most extent of his power, all concessions to the Roman
Catholics. Notwithstanding the recommendation con-
tained in the speech from the Throne, and the respect he
entertained for his Majesty's Ministers, he felt himself
bound to declare that the opinions which he entertained
on this question--opinions formed with deliberation, and,
after the most mature consideration—remained unaltered ;
awl that as long as he held a seat in that House, he was

resolved to oppose, with his vote and with his voice, any

attempt to surrender the privileges of our Protestant
Constitution: It was with regret that he felt himself
compelled to ditier from those friends with whom he had
always acted ; but the same feelings which, as an honest
man, le:I him at all times to support his Right Hon.
Friend and his Majesty's Ministers upon this question, de-
termined him to oppose them now. If the Houses of
Parliament were permitted on the present occasion to alter
the essential principles of the Constitution, and to form a
new one at their pleasure, he for one saw no reason why

the Members of these House+ shoshi not be at liberty, an

tidally or triennially, to form a new Constitution whenever
they were called upon to make a change. The Noble
Lord concluded by expressing again his regret in being
compelled to oppose those be had always supported.
Mr. BROWNLOW said that his feelings were of
mingled nature of satisfaction ■t the boon wide!)
it appeared was to be granted, and of regret at
those passages of the Speech which still seemed to imply
suspicions, and to speak of securities. He thought the
present was a great Jay for Ireland, and would reflect
credit upoa the Ministry of the Empire. lle would rather
1 die Duke of Wellington with his Bill of Emancipation
fat his hand than the great Captain of the age, with the
fame of all his victories around him. He thought a Bill
to put down the .Association would be unnecessary, for
the keowledge that concession was in contemplation would
of itself be sufficient to put a stop to the Association. Ile
Loped that Ministers would not be deterred by the taunts
which might be thrown out unworthily against them.
The ion. Member concluded by observing, that the Hower
lied the power of giving peace to Ireland and happiness to

the empire..
Mr. G. MOORE said that he fir one did not coincide
in the feelings in which the Nu le Lord and others
might indulge. Notwithstaniling what had • fallen
from the Member for Kerry. He trusted he should
never see the day when public opinion should cease to
_ _

fluent* the AstrninistrAtion. With regard to the Pufilit
3feetinz in Ireland ,t.o which the Hon. Gent. had called the
attention of the flow, they did not deserve the oblerya-

tans that he had applied to them. That Hon. Gentleman
}sad not bad the opportunity which he had lied of forming
a judgment of them—he feed not Lad an opportunity
of observing the frequent ine4tige which had taken
place in Ireland within the space of the last nine months.
He had had an opportunity of seeing the character of those
meetings, and he knew that they did not deserve the
aspersions that had been east upon them—if he had beard
the eloquent speeches made at some of those meetings, 1w
Ironed have found a vein of talent which had arisen from
experience, not the result of speculative theory, but
grounded on experience, and experieemes of the best de-
,seription. When lie spoke of mob meetings, be forgot
efizat meetings of that description were the best and surest
xeitterions of public feeling. It wag not necessary for him
o raise a diseuseion upon the merits of the Catholic
qeestion, upon which he laad heard so many opinions, there
was no man in that House who velued more highly the great
services of the Duke of Wellington, No MAU partici-
oted more than let did in the public gratitude for those
seeeeces, and few were more sensible of the talent and eine-
seem* eif the Noble Delp at the head of the Administration,
and be Loped that he would da every thing that could be
done fur tke settlement of this great question. He, the
Honourable Member, had formed ew pinion upon that
question whir4.l we-s the result of lung ezwrience and con-
sideration; lie tha a sacred duty to perfocei to his
constituents, au ite believed that Le shouti be
guilty of a very great dereliction of his public nue
ty if he suffered himieil to be seduced to surren-
der that opinion. He begged pardon for having so long
{gent the attention of the House; lee: he felt himself
called upon to repeat the sentiments velfiela he had ex-
pressed hefore, Lit his silence should be conetreed into
en acquiescence of the sentiments of others. In conclusion,
he hoped that the settler...lent of this question would not
stiffer materially from the geeiet constitutional settlement of
1768.—(Cries of question.)
Mr. M. FITZGERALD, in expleeisigeee denied that he
intended any offensive allusion to the Proteeteestepf lmelend,
'in the observations he Lead felt it his duty to male ewe? the
lion. Beronet'a (Sir R. foglie) sense of pulelic opiniott.
Mr. Secretary PEEL—I treet the Hon. Alernlier who
*poke last (Mr. Moore), and the ;Wale Lord, the Member
tic the county of Buckingham (Load ('Landes), arid the
two Hon. Members (Sir R. Inglie and Ate, anke*), who l
preceded them in the del ate, will do me the 3ustia to be-
that of all the painful &orifices which public teed
axe ee;:ed upon to offer up fur whet they consider for the
public pod, the most painful is that teterifice which they
ere compelled to ,:'eke in separaCng frenethoee with whom
coneurrieeer, proMegng
they have beau long a.,ti"g
a certain eouri-e of actio:l. 1 say again, that they Iteitrg
compelled to separate few) men, fur whose integrity of
motive, and rectitude of leine!ipler I entertain the teeet
profinoul respect, is with me, sacrifices, the meet
painful. I trust, however, it witii Lea admitted, that a
Alinieter of the Crown' stands in a sii,eekm somewhat
different from that of other 111011 ; and in tie* eeeeecity Le
has accrete to iuformation thee is not to be obia,leeel
ct.,y
others; Gut above all, that be etwds in such a relstioo
the Crown, and under eircinnetances of a nature so delicate,
%bit he is not at liberty to free iiirueet: (font that respon-
sibility by which he is compelled, witieeet reference to
party or personal obligations, boteitly and feel,;‘,„ end con-
seientiously, to give time best atileiee in his power ts,2.i the
treasures which ought to be pursued ,u; der a state of ele:elea
so extraordinary as that in which the .Gaerernment of this
country new Stela itself placed.—(Hear.)—With respect to
the question of Catholic Emancipation, whetever compacts
may have been entered into, or whatever rescue:3'ton! may
have been hitherto adhered to, I conceive that well com-
pacts and such reservations do not at all relieve a Minister/
of the Crown from the necessity of offering, in the exer-
eimee of the duties of his oillee, the adrece which each a von-

tangency of circumstance' demands, or from being respon-
sible for the consequences of that advice. There ate no
reproaches offered me by those with whom I have held
these opinions, that I can take ill, for 1 admit that I shall.
retain those opinions which I have always professed, - and I
only ask whether it may not be possible to retain those.
opinions, but yet, to feel unwilling to press them-to an ex- •
tent which would prove incompatible with the interests of
the State? If those who have hitherto held those.opirtione,
can be brought to believe that the prosecution of them is
likely to prove more injurious to the general interests of all
parties, and to the Protestant. establishment itself, than
the consideration of the question as 'a whole, I Contend it
is our duty to give that advice which seems to us best
adapted to. meet the exigencies of the times e end I believe
that there is leas of evil and less of danger to be apprehended
from a fair calm consideration, at the present moment, of
the condition of the people of Ireland as a whole, and by an
united Government, than we could find in any other course
which it would be pnssible to devise. I Pretend to-no new
lights upon this subject. 1 maintain the same opinions
now I have always held in this House. Lseis in the same
manner, and to the same extent, the dangers upon which
I have before dwelt, when 1 have been under the neces-
sity of stating my sentiments upon the question ; but I
have now no hesitation in declaring, I conceive the pre.-
sure of present evils to he so great, that I am willing
to endure the risk of contingent dangers, rather than en-
sure a continuance—perhaps a great aggravation—of
all the evils which at present exist.—(hear, hear.)—
I repeat, I maintain the opinions I have often expressed ;
but I see in the position of the Government, and in the
state of the Legislature, and in the disunion which has
always prevailed in that Government, and in the general
hearings of this question upon all the great interests of the
country, that I sin willing to accept almost any alternative,
rather than endure their continuance—(Hear. )---For neatly
five-and-twenty years—since, I believe, the year 1804—
there has been always a division in his Majesty's Councils
with respect to the propriety of Catholic Emancipation.
The Government of the country had, at intervals, before
that time, beeu composed of persons who made a cowmen
cause in their resistance to those claims ; but for the last
twenty-five years, I admit that men of different opinions
upon this question have taken a part in his Majesty's Coun-
cils. When Mr. Pitt returned to office in 1804, it is no-
torious that he maintained opinions upon this question very
different from some of his colleagues, but yet on grounds
which admitted of explanation, but not on principle, he
admitted the Members of his Cabinet to resist the claims of
the Catholics. In the year 1806, when the Pelinistry of
Mr. Pitt was broken up, and the coalition took place
between Mr. Fox and Lord Melville, the Administration
was formed on the same principle, and that principle,which
was found to be unavoidable, had been admitted into the
construction of every subsequent Ministry down to the pre-
seat hour. That an Administration has been formed of
persons holding different opinions upon such a subject is,
therefore, notorious ; and although no men feels more
deeply than I do the evils of such a principle, I believe it
to be an error which is unavoidable, and which I have
shared in common with ell those who have preceded me
for the period I mentioned. I believe, indeed, it was found
impossible to form an Administration under any other cir-
cumstances ; and that however painful might lie the situa-
tion in which suck circumstances placed individuals, or
however prejudicial the disunion proved to the interests of
the country, the plea of unavoidable necessity was permit-
ted to overrule every other consideration. It was natural,
I admit, that during a state of Witt, or when labour-
ing under the difficulties and depreesious which were
attendant upon a sudden transition to a state of
peace, the consideration of the weight due to a question
of this description should be postponed, and that men should
merge their desires for its settlement in their anxiety to
promote the other pressing interests of the county. I
say, however, that the reasons which operated to such as
extent then cannot hold good now. This question is
second to no other which can be brought under the atten-
tion of the Legislature. There is no immediate and press-.
ing danger now which prevents us from giving its difficul-
ties our full attention.—(Hear, hear.) This, therefore,
is my first position—that however expedient, or however
allowable it might have been for the Government to pro-
fess neutrality upon the Catholic Claims in other times,
such a state of things is utterly out of the question now.
At a time when there is scarcely an individual in the em-
pire who does not express an opinion upon the subject,
and who is not even making it the topic of his every day's
discourse, can it be 'Aid that the Government is not to be
called upon to express its opinion ?—(Hear, hear.) I
really do think that for the safety of the interests of Pro-
testautiam, it is necessary fur the Government to abandon
its neutrality. Besides the embarrassments attendant upon
a disunion in the Cabinet on the Catholic Question, there
was the additional embarrassment in the disunion which,
as a necessary consequence of it, prevailed in the Irish Ad-
ministration.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Indeed, the disunion
of the Cabinet was calculated in its direct and practical
operation to mate, necessarily and inevitably, a corre-
sponding spirit in the constitution of the Irish Government
As the principle of disagreement on the Catholic Question
was the principle on which the Asiministration in England
was formed, it was impossible to prevent the same princi-
ple from catering into the constitution of the Irish Admi-
nistration. Accordingly there have been at one time a
Lord Lieutenant in Ireland entertaining opiuions un-
favourable to the measure of Roman Catholic Re-
liefie and. a Secretary entertaining opinions favour-
able to it. Again, we have had the Lord Lieutenant fa-
eOitrible and the Secretary of opposite sentiments. This
wee!theitetural result of a divided Cabinet ; and although
there lettee! been occasions, fur instance, recently, of the
Lord Lieutenant -and the. Secretary cherishing united gentle
tnents on tlte question,
.yet they were under the guidance
and direction of a disunited Government. Thus, whether
the Administration of Ireland was united in favour of con-
eeseiiiii. 'or disunited against it, their conduct was always
contrefied by the principle Olt which the Administration
in England was..formed—namely, one of disagreement
upon the subject of concession. Seeing, then, the em-
barrassments which this principle had created hitherto in
the construction of the Cabinet—seeing, too, the embar-
rassment which; its prevalence extended to the administra-
tion of affairs in. Ireland—and seeing further that these
embarrassments not a only continued, but greatly in-
creased, I came -.to the_ conclusion that things ought
not to remain ei they aree-(Leud cries of Heat !)—not
only fur the sake of the-question itself, but in reference to
the public interests, and for the interests of the Protes-
tant Establishmenti, which it is our roost anxious wish
and duty to proteCt, it- is to be desired that things should
not remain in their present condition.—(Hear.)--Let us
consider what are the alternatives to wnich we have to
look, in the event of any other coursejthan that of concession
being now acted upon. Who now will propose as a remedy
the forming of an Administration on a principle prepared
eo resist concession under any circumstances? In the present
state of public opinion and of public men, are there mate-
rials for an Administration which, united its a principle of
resistance to concession, would be found adequate to the su-
perintendence and die ection of all the vast and complicated in-
terests of this Empire? If it be admitted, them as I think it
,must be, that the principle of disunion ought not to prevail
perenatsently, and if it be also admitted (as with equal forco
I think it nt‘st), that in the present state of public opinion and
of public men, an sleleninistration for such a purpose could
not be formed, I could not honestly advise the formation nf
a Cabinet on the principle of perseene.nt resistance. And
if upon such a principle—that of permiuserat
;resistance—
:an Administration could not be formed, would it, I a h, be
fair or resannab;e 12 form one en the principle of temporary
expediency ? I am aware 01.4 there are grounds and rea-
sons of a temporary nature which might be relied upon for
the present purpose of preventing CODC4I4,BiOO, ppd that ad-
vantage might be taken of these temporary causes for a ru
aistsuce to the measure. But the prevalence of public '
-07-les, and the violence which sometimes at those meet-
ings '4;4w been exhibited, should not prevent us front
taking our own fie en,--(i.ear, hear.) If we were to wait
nutil that objection be retun'sreel, I em apprehensive it is
one that would never cease, but thais st rpwld increase
and furnish cooti.nued grounds of resistance to inncesie'mp
hear.) To rely, therefore, upon this temporary
ground ctf, 9xpediency, might, it is true, be a minve-
' Meat principle ai; those who resist the policy of conces-
sion—but it would 'at the ?Ante time bean unfair one. Un-
k-as some principle o'f this Cotte,s;.ten:an can be stated
wAkic4 isi4ronsistent with any concession, si;cl saliich will
eanettio,n a Rt;rtn:,^ent resistance to 'it, I OWnlthili on ti
4/4444042 of *nob ,Mag,nite4e end importance I am "tiot'die-
powd to rely t, Pt Moro zeenatteinfniemporary expediency.
Regarding the 644;44 /lirejet data ligha-eseorei' ejns the i
disunion of aslministratiemaisnib j!? dash loci an !relan(lo
which it has so long promoted ; and nienedearing tlto '
nircunistancts of the country, I sin bums ,v IT
p4n.1ic4;,,i.12:::€ the formation of a Ministry united in a priu-
cio4, of perka,kt,:s4,4pposition to any measure of relief ;
and, in eeming ie t'ene eiie.e.leeion, I cannot consider that
the course by which t fee; t 4. ;:f ai ,an be injurious
or prejudicial to those establiebiate::4s 42:!e-
-eial duty to protect; for I caunot erns:Wee ghats
laate excitement and embitterment of animu.itie.:vmeA4,
teeasaas to their security or advantage ; but, on the contrary,
the tiveanterests of those establishments) lie in the cessa-
tion and ezti,;geAmentof them. The difference hetween the
two branches of th4egislature which have hitherto existed
0 on this question is a subject ii4;i:zh invites our most enxioue
attention. Surely it is not to be wished ti;st such a litTer-
. once should permanently continue. Some iinu..44u),bers

appeared favourable to measures of restriction; Litt let
those Hon. Members who now call for restriction and
coercion, consider how difficelte-show almost impossible
it was that the measure fir the suppression of the Ca-
thelie Association in 1825 should be attended with suc-
cess when that measure was immediately followed by a vote
of this House in favour of concession to the Catholics.
The vote in favour of that question greatly tended to
defeat the power and means ofearrying,iote effect the wee-
sure-of the suppression of the Association. The subse-
quent Pleasure rendered the 'previsatis sue ineffective (bear !).
In the last Session of Parliernent, a Resolution in favour
of Concession, at least if the consideration of it, was
earried by a majority of two kundred and seventy-six votes
—constituting a large majority iu its support. Consider-
ing the many former majorities that have been recorded in
its favour, and the Prospect of future decision, it is quite
visionary to come to the decision of lasting unqualified and
usteempromivisig opposition to concession, unless it be also
deeined desirable to perpetuate that collision between the
two branches of the Legislature, which we must all unite
in deprecating. Unless, then, it were desirable to perse-
vere in a course which would render this collision conti-
nual, and the Resolution of this House ineffective, I could
not, consistently with the bounden sluts of an Adviser of
the Crown, recommend to his Majesty the adoption of
councils by which these embarrassments and differeneee
would be continued and augmented. And here I must
remark, that there is a difference in my situation and that
of some of my Honourable Friends—for what may appear
to them to be right And proper in their capacities of indi-
vidual Members, may net appear so to me, acting as a
Minister of the Crown, its the discharge of the duties
which devolve upon me in that character. For me, act-
ing in that capacity, there was no escape from the course
which I conscientiously deemed it my duty to recommend.
Convinced, then, that the attempt of forming an Admi-
uhstratiim united iu the principle of resistance ought
not to be formed ; andisconvinoed that if the attempt were
made it would terminate in failure, it remained to con-
sider what alternative presented itself. Proceed-
ing on the two admissions I hive made—first, that thines
could not remain as they are: and secondly, that •resist-
mace could not be effectually offered to concession on per-
snament grounds—if the fon:Maio:l of a Cabinet,united in
the principle of resistance, could net be formett, the dAe
culty of forming one united in favour of it appeared, to be
not leas so, and in this position the only alternative that
presented itself was, that constituted as the Government,
we should proceed to the consideration of concession with
the prospect of accomplishing it with credit and aueorsai
and ie the manner best calculated to lead to the satisfac-
tory and final adjustment of the subject.—(Hear.)—ln
taking up the subject in this spirit, with a view to its ad-
justment, it may not he inexpedient to consider what have
been the opinions and decisions of the Legislature on the
Catholic Question, to regard the differences which have
subsisted between the Houses of Commons and Lords upon
it fur the last 20 sears. During the last 20 years that this
su4ject has undergone frequent discussion, there have been
five general elections—in the years 1807, 1812, 1818,
1820, and 1826. Four of the Parliaments, returned
at these several periods decided in favour of cuncesaion.
—ln the year 1812, there was a majority in favour of the
cousideration of concession. The numbers in that year
were—For concession, 2351 against it, 106 ; majority
fur concession, 129. In the next year, 1813, there was
a majority for going into the Committee—For going into
Committee, 264; against it, 224; majority in favour
of it, 40. In the year 1818, the Parliament returned
at the general Election of that year, was the only one
which rejected the Claims of the Catholics, and that re-
jection was only by a majority of two. The numbers
ie that year were :—Against concession, 243; in favour
of it, 241 ; niajerity against it, 2. The Parliament re-
turista! in 1820 passed a Bill through this House its favour
of concession by a majority of 19. This branch of the
Legislature also passed menses-es of relief in 1222; in
1821 a ICI was again carried by a majority of 21, and its
1827 it was lost by a majority of four; the numbers then
beines,—Fer the. Resolution of Relief, 272 ; against it, 276 ;
majority against it 4. The principle of the measure of
'concession was, however, carried iii the ensuing year; the
numbers then were—lu favour of the Resolution, 972 ;
against it, 266; majority, 6. Thus it appeared, on re-
ference to the history of this question fur the last twenty
years, that four Parliaments out of five derided in favour
of eonueesion. Fer this long period a difference has sub-
sisted between the two branches of the Legislature, pre-
judicial not only to the Administration, and obstructive
of its proceedings, but cal culated greatly to foment animo-
sities, and to eucourage faction in Ireland.—(Haar, hear.)
That it was never intruded by this difference to give
strength to the faction .1 am sure ; but of this I am no less
sure, that the'effect of this difference was to encourage it ;
and whilst by it the power of the Catholics was strength-
sued, the power and interests of the Protestants were de-
psesued.—(Lousl elks of " near, hear," frosts Mr. Flume.)
The consideration; therefore, of this difference between the
two branches of the Legislature—the injurious effect of
it, and the improbable prospect of its being removed
if this question is to be left open for discussion, as it
has hitherto been--s-leaves no alternative or remedy but
that Government and both Houses of Parliament should
take up the subject with a view to its final adjuetnieut.—
(Cheers.)—The Address which has been moved by
nay Noble Friend (Lord Clive) pledges no Hon. Member to
a specific measure ; but merely invites him to an attentive
consideration of this most anxious and important subject.
—( Hear, hear.)—The first measure which will be iutro-
duced, however, in accordance with the recommendation
from the Throne, is one which will arm the Executive Go-
vernment with sufficient powers to suppress au Association
the evils of which are so notorious, that I may be spared the
mention and discussion of them. • Until the ascendancy of
the law shalll have been established in Ireland, and until
the proper assertion of authority shall have been vindicated
there, every measure of concession must he postponed.—
(Hear, hear, hear.)—Until, as the Speech properly terms
it, " that essential object shall have been access-maid:el,"
the subject referred to in the latter part of his Majesty's
Speech cannot be fairly taken into consideration. When
that object shall have been accomplished, then, but net
until then, I shall be disposed and willing to enter iuto the
consideration of the other subject. I am asked whether it
is the intention of Government to bring forward any plan
of their own, or to leave the subject open to the specula-
tions of individual Members. I have no hesitation in de-
claring, that when the object to which I have referred
shall have been aeconsplished, that Government will be
prepared to bring forward a substantive measure, in the
shape of legislat iv provision ; and this measure, I am fur-
ther prepared to state, will be brought forward on the re-
sponsibility and authority of the Cabinet.—(Cheers.)—
I have only further to add, that this measure will be
brought forward as early as circumstances will permit, and
at that period of the Session which may appear .to his Ma-
jesty's Ministers most conducive to its satisfactory accom-
plishment.—!Hear, hear.)--,The general eisaracter of the
measure to be brought forward is sufficiently intelligible in
the Speech from the Throne; but although an, invitatiQP
has been held out to me to enter info the details of that
measure, it is a discussion into which I must positively re-
fuse to enter.—(Hear, hear.)—The discussion of the de-
Ws et this moment can serve no good end.—(Hear.)—
Suffice it to say that the principle of the measure is the
permanent settlement of his
,question on a satisfactory
basis.—(Loud cheers )—The object to bp accomplished is
the removal of civil disabilities that have hitlise to eels-
listed on grounds of religious distinctions.—(Loud awl re-
peated cheers.),-.' The abolition of such disabilities on such
grounds comprises the substance of the contemplated mea-
sure—(cheers)--subjeet to eertain exceptions and regula-
tions, which rest on special grounds.—(Loud cries of hear,
hear.)—ln saying tide I reserve to nsysself and to the Go-
yerpment the right of submitting hereafter such other
soessersa ste the Stacie and Governmentmay .reeuire ; but
again I desire to waiye the discussion of the details of this
measure, and to confine myself to the priociple of it,
which is the abolition of civil disabilities on the ground of
religious difference of opinion. Whatever the measure may
he, it should be the result of the most anxious deliberation
of his Majesty's Government, acting in co-operation and
'CesicaOsinss!ss, with both blouses of Parliament.—(Hear.)—
One tbinis`hoiirjey? lan anxious should he unierstood,_
which is, that the ineasuee s'ooitid R,ot he regarded in the
light of a compact with any party or any iieiosil:theara_
that it shall not be the result of a negoeiation With. (my
foreign Potentate—hut that it shall be looked upon solely
e,e e measure of domestic and internal legislation. (Cheers.)
t fie rotas;:: shall be submitted with reference to the
bpiniodi cad brought forward on the ra-
t•ltileivalt?ltceiatlat
Oleinsibiliti of thosie'hY wiihin it is s4F.sitted, due regard
Only.had 'to OW circumstances and
t jai` lof u (117,,,;!:.641'consulted of st e i.
rer
cper. ihoga
(Ivan
title
will,
oir7mithiet of di-
vesting the messes; if the gresiiete;' s eo"'''Pe'et;
Ilea• r-
after, when this question stseti LT. been 1ie414,
ment will be able to apply its mind to the attain efersie
land, iu the same way us to any other portion of the ems
kire !;• henceforth the Legislature will be placed in a
eptlitiorrAo oassisi_r with like impartiality the affairs of
Irebinel s an save the obstacle
and oljeetien of eiyil ;bs4kility•lifiv
be removed, the interests of the Protestanti-siii {belies
man Catholics of Ireland will be placed on the seine foot-
ing--(Loud sheers from the Opposition aide of the House)
—the Roman Catholics will be placed on the same footing
gs other subjecte.—(Renewed cheers.)—l wish I could

! anticipate the same satiefaetory tatsulte--the same prospects
of tranquillity and prosperity that *bme Hon. Members
anticipate will follow the measure of concession to the Ro-
man Catholics. However, come what may of the measure
itself—if hereafter the Roman Catlsolics-attempt to trench
upon the authority of the Crown, or to attack say of the
institutions of the country—the measure of relief which is
now proposed to be dealt out to them, if carried, will serve
to rebuke and to defeat every effort that may be made against
them.—(Hear, hear.)—Some Hon. Members seemed to
consider that they saw no differeece between the present
condition of this question and its fortifier ptatition—at the
same time, the Hon. Member who bad made this as-
sertion admitted that within the last six months the Ca-
tholic Questioa had excited the most intense interest ; aid
he also instanced what he regarded as one deplorable
event—the County of Clare Election ; but it was worthy
of remark, that at the same time the Hon. Member cited
this instance, and seemed to regard it slightingly, he ad-
mitted that if an opportunity were affoided to-morrow,
twenty-three Counties were prepared to imitate the example
of the county of Clare.—(hear, hear.)—ls not this them
a subject calling for and justifying legislative interference.
—(Hear, hear.)—This of itself was of importance to
show the degree of excitement which prevailed on this
question.—(Hear, hear.)--An lion. Member (we believe
Mr. Bankea) had referred to this measure, as being the
result of intimidation. To Latium of this kind I tun dis-
pOsed to pay little attention ; because, as I know no more
ignoble motive of action than that of intimidation, which
deservos to be'lsranded as cowardice, so I am unconscious
of acting under it. But theta is another species of fear of
which I am equally unwilling ail indisposed to Le thought
apprehensive--" the fear of being-thought to be afraid."--
(Loud cries of hear, hear.)—l have no fear of any intimi-
dation which might be menaced to overawes the Govern-
ment, but am sure that if the threat, which lard been held
out to intimidate -the Protestant spirit, bad been persever-
ed in last summer, not only the whole power and authority
of the Government, but also the physical force of every loyal
subject in every part of his Majesty's dominions would be
directed and devoted to the defeating of it, so that the
wicked abettors of such an attempt would be iavolved in
signal discoinfiturv.—( Hear, hear.)—But apart from any
intimidation of the description to which I have alluded,
there is an apprehension which is not unbecoming the
mind of a Statesman—net unworthy but creditable to the
mind of a legislator "eotastantis viri," to entertain ;
that is, the apprehension that arises from the mieekiefs
and injuries that may arise: to the interests of the British
Empire from the disorganisation of society—from the ani-
mosity and embitterment of feeling which pervade all
classes of the sointuuuity iu that country.--(Cheers.)—
As to the violence of any body of men in Ireland, I again
declare that it presente no intimidation to me; and I will
add the declaration of my belief; that if any attempt at
carrying the threat of intimidation into effect bad been
persevered in, the naked clergies of the King's subjects,
uusupportel by a single soldier, would have defeated and
crushed the attempt.—(Cheers.)—Whilst upon this sub-
ject of Catholic concession, I will advert to one point
which has not been much dwelt upon in this House—l
mean the administration of justice in Ireland ; and I do
observe in the present administration of the law in that
country, that if some substantial alteratiou in the law be
not made, it is impossible to expect the due and efficient
administration of the law in any ease in which matters of
disputes are referred to the tribunal of a Jury.—(Cheers.)
There are other subjects on which the present system so
injuriously operates, that an alteration is desirable ; but
its the first instance, the barrier must be first broken
down, which separates the Catholics from their fellow-
subjects, before all the measures of beneficial import to Ire-
land can he effectually fulfilled.—(Hear, hear.)---w mea-
sure of equitable adjustment, which shall be satisfactory to
every good Protestant, and to every reasonable Catholic,
will precede and prepare the way for other measures,
calculated, I most sincerely hope, to augment and con-
firm the happiums and prosperity of Ireland.—(Hear,
hear, hear.)—Having said thus much upon the
subject, the House will, perhaps, bear with me a short
time, in making a fesv observations applicable to my own
peculiar situation. That situation, the House will readily
believe me, was not bee from erribarraseMent. The opi-
nions which I have now expressed, are not opinions which
have recently occurred to use ; them opinions first arose in
my mind shortly after the separation of Parliament ; I
was not then in London, and so early as the month of
August I communicated with my Noble Friend at the head
of the Administration, intimating to him that it was nut
fur the interests of the King's subjects that the principle
of neutrality which had hitherto prevailed, and been acted
upon in the Cabinet, should be persevered in ; and having
funned the opinion that the time Lad arrived for the con-
sideration of this question, I freely intimated that convic-
tion to my Nohle Fr iend. That conviction was formed
front the impression that there would be lean of evil hi a
change of system than in an adherence to the present one.
(Cheers.) Placed in this situation, I felt that my first
duty was to give the best advice to my Sovereign which
had been impressed on my mind from a conscientious con-
viction of its propriety and urgency. My peculiar situa•
thin lcul rendered this duty peculiarly incumbent on me,
as, from the period of my first entrance auto public life, I
had offered an earnest, though, I trust, not violent—an
miqualitied, though, I trust, not intemperate, opposition to
the proposed measures of concession. (Cheers.) In the
opposition which I bad offered, unqualified as it was, I
did not rely on grounds) of temporary expediency. The
opinions which I advanced were the result of reflection
and conviction. In my past conduct upon this Question,
however, it may be permitted me to say, that I con-
fined my opposition to this House; I never attempted to
raise a resistance to any measure of concession out of
doors—in short, I may truly say, that all the objections
and obstacles which I have ever raised have been confined
and restricted to the deflates in Parliament. And when
in Atigi.st last I addressed a letter to my Noble Friend at
the head of the Administration, it was because, from
the connexion of my office with the Administration of
Ireland, I deemed it necessary that some change should
take place, and it was therefore that I notified to
him my concurrence in entering with him into a full
consideration of this Question, with a view to its final
and satisfactory adjustment. I notified to my Noble
Friend that I concurred with him in thinking
that there was no other course; but I accompanied
that notification with the expression of my continued ap-
prehension of the dangers that might nevertheless result
from its adoption. [Here the Right Hon. Gentleman read
the letter which he bad addressed to the Duke of Welling.
ton on the subject, but so rapidly, and in so lowa tone of
voice, that we were able to collect only its general ten-
dency, which was to the effect, " that on i political ques-
tion uf so much importance, he, of course, should not be
influenced by any false delicacy, or by any fear of lectu-
ring imputations of inconsistency from taking whatever
runt any new, position of circumstances might require;
that he was ready, therefore, to hazard any sacrifice on
that point; that he had a strong opinion that the pro-
posed conemeiim to the Cethulies would not be satisfactory
to the country ; but that, eling that 41! per9nal and pri-
vate feelings should !.;t1 subordinate on etteli an occasion, hs
was ready to do every thing iu his power to prcintO:e tb's
object iu view."] Undoubtedly, Sir, I felt my own situa-
tion to be one of great difficulty. Still, however, I had
no hesitation in adopting the course which I have pursued.
'I had no'hesitetion in declaring to my Noble Friend that
no consideration whatever would induce me to throw any
ia,taele ipm t)4e way of the attainment of his purpose. Had
I thought it could hare been irdecepfully reeisted, I would
Rat have shrunk frurn any sacrifice, 'be it ;ilia if
which resistance to it uaight have drawn upon me; but I
was persuaded that it could not be so. With respect to
my Noble Friend, I can justly say that he has done all
that is in the power of man to do, to ascertain the most
prudent co,.oses to pursue. It was not until after great de-
li,beration that he had advised his Majesty to resort to the
treasure note allow
Any pn,luet
to ruflurnt:¢hp• tp_ct otros,idi;ti
,tsand 6gflitc:beeupe!'clitr,hoQ7,7:,,uu lohnn4:b:
tea e
painful sacrifices on this occebioti. rtiave alone ovary'
thing in my power to five myself from any efiaius wlsiclr
might have embarrassed me in the unfettered exercise of
my discretion respecting it. I have adopted the course
which, under all circumstances in which the country is
placed, scenes to me to be the most free from peril ; and
tlaat.aS:t,l:pg em.t.eai th 4 4:.4ae to attend to the so-
lemn ipippctiQp of cailt;der;i w:til 'the an-
itctninittYerewstsh,kbhuit time
tdtht7atiqttl lld';i4l4l4ott heP. i 6
he n
United) pl~duilr.
(Loud cries of hear, hear, hear.)
Mr. BROUGHAM spoke to the following effect :—Sir,
it is not my intentiuu to detain the House at any length on
the Pwef,,:;.4 occasion ; fur I perfectly agree with the Right
Hon.Gentlernan who ;ma addressed you, that this is by
no ideates the proper' time to enter into at-e; consideration
of the nature -of the measure *Lich it inaylecome Parlia-
eatrit to` adopt with' t- pact to that ihtereating 'subject
;1;;.elt 'el pea,ls!44.gchlog' teis tliephblie attention:...lllten
a Speech from the 'Arena ea-4448'e
'A t.°
parliament to take any particular topic into consideration,
it is fitting that neither House of Parliament shouts/ take
any course which may hare the air of dictating to his Ma-
ceity'd Government the nature of the measure which in
ross:aticy reeserunendation they may think it their
tiu'ty to propoae:' liO'N•t* 4;;; C:otz feelinis the slightest
disposition to do eo, that I most etee'r'fari4tkaare that I,
for one, am perfectly satisfied with the general description
of the propost.d measure comprehended in the Speech from

the Throne; which general description I understand to
mean that the arrangement to be made should be on a
wide basis and of a permanent character; not a narrow
niggardly measure—not a grant of a mere part or parcel of
that which is required, reserving the remainder until some
other more or less distant seasoy. What I understand is,
that we are to do all that ought to be done, and that we
are to do it at once—that the mind of the Legislature is to
be applied to the question, and that after the due delibera-
tion which its' importance demands, we should make to
the Roman Catholic.' such concessions as way once,
and fir all, terminate the differences between ns ; that
we should giVii the Roinan Catholic. what we can afford
to give, and what they ought to be satisfied tee receive.—
sir, I say what the Roman Catholic. ought to be satis-
fied to receive ; for I entirely concur with the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman is the opisien which Le has ex-
pressed, that this great measure, from which I trust seek
important benefits will result to Ireland aid to the Em-
pire at large, would lose the greater part of its value if it
were to be the result of negociation or compact. Sir, I
consider the Catholic Question as substantially carried
(hear, hear, hear l). I consider that all the essential parts
of that question are irretrievably cancelled ; above and
before all, the admission of Roman Catholics into both
Houses of Parliament, and their equal eligibility with Pre-
testants to the great offices of State, with one or two ex-
ceptions, on which it is quite unnecessary at present to
touch, and the peculiar nature of which is such that the
Catholics themselves must admit that it is but fair and
just that they should be excluded from them. It has keen
said by an Hon. Baronet that some of those by whom
this proposition is about to be propounded have changed
all the principles which they formerly maintained, with-
out any adequate cause existing for the alteration. Sir,
if, even in the case of circumstances remaining the same,
the result of a larger and longer experience should be to
induce a wan to change the opinion which Le formerly
held; and conscientiously to support an opinion diame-
trically opposite—even in that cease, I should never im-
pute to such a man any motives inconsistent with a
manly and honest discharge of duty. Sir, I prefer those
who in their lives are ready to profit by experience,
to those who appear to live only for the purpose of con-
firming themselves in their perversity (bear, hear, hear !).
I have little esteem for the man who fruitlessly
adds year to year of a long and sad lifia on whom no ar-
gument, on whom no experieniz can operate ; but who
iecreases his years witboat increasing his wisdom.—(•
laugh.)—But, Sir, I entirelydiffer from the Hon. Baronet
to whom I have already alluded, as well as from the Noble
Lord opposite, when they say that no change of circum-
stances has occurred to produce that change of opinion
which they condemn. What ! has no difference in the
state of things taken place within the last three or four,
to say nothing of the last fivs.and-twenty years?
Undoubtedly I, and those who agree with me on the sub-
ject, have always maintained that no such change was
waisted. We did not require the multi' of any experi-
ence to convince us that concession to the Roman Catho-
lics was as expedient as it was just. We, without the
benefits of experience, contended in favour of the conces-
sion ; as, having derived that benefit, we now continue to
contend in favour of it. But we all know that different
men may see the same subject in different lights. lam
perfectly aware, fur I have heard it in all quarters, that
the circumstances which hare occurred within the last
two or three years, and still snore emphatically within the
last year and a half, have greatly changed the opinion of
many persons both in Parliament and out of doors with res-
pect to the Catholic Question. It has appeared to them
that the elements on which their opinion must be founded
have materially altered; and well may they so con-
ceive. Sir, the observations which fell from the Right
Ifonourable Gentleman on the state of parties in the
country, with reference to this great subject, seem to me to
be unanswerable. If it be necessary, as all must admit,
that the Government of this country should be an united
Government, and act in concert for the public benefit, it
is clear, as the Right Hon. Gentleman so well stated, that
of the two alternatives they must choose one. They must
either make the Catholic Question a Cabinet measure, to
carry it to its fall extent and immediately; or they must
make it a Cabinet measure to deny it, and to deny it for
ever. For it would be childish, indeed, to suppose that it
would be practicable for any Government in the present
day to say, " We will resist concession to the Catholics;
but we will not resist it fur ever ; we will resist it only for
six months, or for some indefinite time, until circumstances
shall change." I repeat, Sir, thit Government must either
at °nee carry, or must for ever resist concession. If they
resist it, perpetuity of resistance must .be the cardinal point
of their policy. Now that is impossible. I address my-
self to men who hare not changed their opinions on the
subject at all. If there is any man who hears toe, and
who maintains the doctrine of non-concession, in spits of
events, in spite of experience, in spite of all that has lately
ocenrred in this counts y, in spite of all that has lately oc-
curred in the Sister Kingdom—if there is any luau en
whom the events of the general election in 1826 have been
lost—if there is any man on whom the election for the
county of Clare in 1828 has been thrown away, and who
still holds that great mischief must result from carrying the
Catholic Question, and who still maintains that they ought
never to receive any further coneessiou—l ask that man to
point out, either in this or the other House of Parliament,
the materials of which his Anti-Catholic Cabinet world
be composed.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—Sir, I contend that
there are no materials in existent* for suck a Cabinet.
Suppose the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, unfortunately
for his country, unfortunately for his own reputation, had
continued to adhere to Lisopinion that theclanns of the Ca-
tholics ought never to be listened to, he alone must have
formed of all the persons here—l speak of course of the
persons capable of administering the affairs of a great na-
tion—he alone, with the exception of oue or two other in-
dividaals ou the beech above him, and with the exception
of one or two noble persons, members of a House to which
it would be disorderly further to allude—be must alone
leave formed the Cabinet by which continued resistance
could have been made to ties settlement of the Catholic
Question. It is quite clear, therefore, that the thipg is
I might almost say physically impossible. That
the change of circuanstanees which it in:
perfectly,being the
case,
dictates will well justify individuals who formerly voted
against concession in now voting in favour of it. What is
the change of circumstances these indicated ? It will, I
presume, Sir, be acknowledged by every body that it is ex.:
pedicat thAt the Government of a country should be car.
ied on by the regalarly constituted authorities; ; that it is
petlieut that the Government of Ireland should be carried 012
by the Lord Lieutenant, Magistrates, and other functiona-
ries, aided by the civil and military power. Now, Sir, I
ask, has the power of the State in Ireland been for some
time peat effectually in the hands of the constituted autho-
rities ; or has it not been substantially administered by the
Catholic Association? That is a state of things the con-
tinuance of which cannot he otherwise than mischievous.
The friends of the Catholic Association—say the Catholic
Association themselves—must concur with their enemies in
deprecating the continuance of such a state of things, as
utterly inconsistent with the safety of the Government and
the peace of the empire. Bat, are tt than
,lere more ways
One bf jostpog an cod to thia state of ? No man living
will venture to say that it is possible to 'put tiouin the 'Ca;
tholic Association in any way but one—namely, by carrying
the Catholic Question. —( Hear, hear. )—And this, Sir, leads
me to advert to that part of the King's Speech, which of
course I treat as the Speech of leis Ministers, on which,
and on which almost alone, I feel any disposition to masks)
the slightest comment. I confess, Sir, that I wish the re-
walal444jioa of carecasion to the (:astluelies had preceded
instead'uf following' lie. sieeiinkendatien of putting &nets
the Catholic Association ; and for this simple reasouo--I am
'as clearly convinced as I am of my own existence, that it
the measures lead been taken in the succession which I have
described, the carrying of the first would have rendered the
second perfectly unnecessary. Concession to the Catholics
would have instantly put a spontaneous end to the Catholic
Association. The Association was originally created by the
lcSisfitYg lets ; %Aileen That law ceased to exist; the Asaouiatioa
ts'aMllaatlt 114 arratigindeilt; hoWk:
ever, not leaving been amide, we have now only to listen to
thee propositions which it is the intention of Ministers to
submit to Parliament. All I trust is, that the propositions
will be so framed as to abstain from -invading any general
constitutional principles; and that Parliament will not be
reoatired to pun:lounce upon the hatefel alternative of either
repeating st‘ treasure,aleei teadeoey 6i which is relieve the
Citholie burly fleorn their distbilitiisoir•tio adapt it'ast 'fin
aakne'ti of constitutional principles too large to be eon-
seated to even for snide an object. - What means, is
distinctly this I—Great as wield be the rshie of et:Storing
religious peace and political tranquillity to Ireland, if those
objects are to be obtained only as a consideration for Par-
lionesses arming his Majesty's Government with powers
over all classes of his Majesty's subjects, Protestant as well
as Catholic, dangerous to their civil liberties, it will be-
come us, at least, to papse before we consent to any such
proposition. Into what, in my opinion, ought to be the
d'eUtils'• of the' proposed memoir', ;I shall, : of courts?, at
pie end, 4balii4'6#o-itifetil4tl :YIP L4411.111T aid
we shall then have an opportunity of exert:lei% our ju'iti:
ment respecting them. I trust that, to use the words of
the Speech, the powers which it will be 'proposed to
Parliament to entrust to his Majesty's Government
will be only " such powers as may enable his Majesty
to maintain his just authority." But, Sir, 1 would fain
hope that the news of this Speech from the Throne, and
of the declarations of hie /Majesty's Apaietere is both

House, when it reaches Ire . will have the effect of
anticipating the necessity of auylaiwers whateier. Of.
this I am sure, that if ever I have'tiikeu leave.to advise
my Catholic fellow-subjecte Nutt Inyldiren-in Parlianaeiat
(the only plaee in which I ever-have saisired, or over will
' advise theta), if they have ever, eontlemeeded to listen to.
any suggestions which I may kaveithroyealtut for their,'
benefit, I here declare to them that I sasveronotearnestly,
l never more deliberately, I never, sp,maxitialrimplored
them, and conjured them, by their regard foe their osen
honour, by their regard for their own interoste, their
regard for the interests of the Empire at.
regard for the peace of the country, and, ralkovs:4ll; by
their hopes for the success of their own coupe, Atones to
be satisfied with the assurance in the Spect,th from the
Throne—at once to be satisfied with the commentaries
of his Majesty's responsible advisers in both llotities on
that assurance—at once to be satisfied with the stile of .
the question both in and out of l'arliatnent--aaAOce
freely, I cannot say unasked, for I have asked theiti;:;l4i
uncompelled, to put an eud to the eorporate ekistenee
the Catholic Association, and to fling themselves wire:
servedly on the justice of the country.—(Hear:)-.-If t 144,
comply with this advice, I will answer it with iii'
head—that is, if it be necessary to do so.—(A laugh.);--
I will pledge whatever little credit I may have with them fiir
having been the humble advocate of their claims in this
House, that the question will be as certainly parried, and car-
ried to their Leal ta' content, as if the Bill had already re-
ceived the Royal Assent--(Hear, hem.):--Nothing could •
then prevent its being carried; nothitag.can endanger its
being carried, except its being accompanied by provisions
injurious to the principles of civil liberty ; provisions which
will be wholly unnecessary unless they. adhere to meetings
and proceedings, the whole occasion for which all candid and
impartial men must acknowledge is,.from this night, for
ever over—( Hear.)—lt is almost eupetluous for we to add
that, laying aside all personal, laying aside all party coml.-
derations, I most heartily rejoice that this groat and grand
work has been achieved, by whose hands soever.' ~Could I
do otherwise? Good Clod, Sir ! who would stop. at such
a moment as this to ask by whom the benefit we are receiv-
ing has been conferred ?.—to what party in the State., it is
attributable ? When so great, se inestimable an advantage,
maturing eiyil peace and religious tranquillity--securiug
quiet at home and strength abroad, is about to be conferred
upon us, all petty political distinctions sink intreinsigui-
ficance. We are united—at least for a titne--(A laugh.)
There will be abundant time for discussions of a lase im-
portant nature, after this, one of the most valuable, And
extensive, and lasting benefits which the country ever, re-
ceived, has been secured.--(Hear.)
Mr. `f RANT followed ; hut the noise in the Reuse was
so loud, that we could hear only a few occasional sentences
of the Hon. Gentleman's speech. He implored the House
not to be lad away by the sophistry of the Right Hon.
Seetetary of State for the Home Department. Had not
Mr. O'Connell said, that if the claims of the Catholics
wore not conceded, a hundred thousand of them would
come and set fire to the four corners of the city of London ?
What, in fact, could prevent them from coming and be-
sieging us at our own doors? The Right Hen. Gentleman
said, that if he had persevered in his opposition to the
Claims, the House would not have supported him. if that
Ikuse, however, had refused to do so, the country would
have furnished him with a House that would have support-
el him. He was sorry t. see that his Majesty's Govern-
ment was not what it formerly was.

An HononaAttu! Mxissua who spoke under the gal-
lery, and whose name we were unable to learn, declared
that his opinion ou the subject was totally unaltered. • He
conceived that no further privileges could be granted to the
Catholics with safety to the Protestant Constitution.
Mr. CRESSETT PELHAM, as we understood the
Hon. Gentleman, expressed his deep [egret at the abandon-
meet by the Right Hon. eeeretary of Mate for the Home
Department, of the principles which he had hitherto
maintained with so much firmness and succees.

General GASCOYNE must, as sa Englishman and a
Protestant, declare the apprehension which had been ex-
cited in his mind by the language in the Speech from the
Throne. He had listened with great attention to the
Right Hon. Gentleman's explanation, and he 'must say
that a more unsatisfactory one he had never hoard since he
had the honour of a seat in that House. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had declared that reasons of state had induced
him to change the sentiments which he had once main-
tained ; and the very grounds on which he now consented
to concession were those au which he Lad uniformly, and
again and again led those whom he now left in the hint',
He lamented the course which had been pursued by the
Right Hon. Gentleman' for more reasons than ono. ,He
lamented it for the immediate cause ; he lamented it forahe
sake of the Right Hon. Gentleman himself; he lamented
it because in future no confidence could be placed in the as-
surances of any Minister. if this question were carried,
let not his lion. Friends despair of Laving Universal Sof- •
frage and Parliamentary Reform.—(A laugh.)—Only let
them get up au Association, and in time they would suc-
ceed ; for there would come a day whet' some Minister of
the Crow* would assent even to their project.—(Cheers,
and much laughter. )._...The Minister, he would say, who
gave ground among dangers, might see a necessity for con-
ceding Parliamentary Reform—(Cheers-from Mr. Hume.)
—He saw how the Member fqr Aberdeen was already re-
joicing, and he Lad no doubt that the Members for West-
minster would find themselves too well eseouraged. He
disapproved of the Speech, and especially of the steggeatioo
it urged for the relief of the Cetholiee. He entered hie
protest against it, and could not but regard it as one of
those extraordinary and ominous Speech,* -from this Cabi-
net which were unprecedented in history.—(Laughter.) •
Lord ASHLEY was glad this question was at last
likely to be brought into a tangible shape, so that the
Nouse might ascertain, on the one hand, what was de-
manded for seem ities, and, on the other, what was asked
for concession*. Parliament could have no better security
for the safety of the measures that would be proposed than
the character of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel).
Mr. H. GHATTAN said, the Right Ilan. Gentienaan
(Mr. Peel) had beeu accused of changing Lis colours; but
if he clitogC4 them, it was yreditOhir tf) Lire. He had
taken down the Orange standard itt the north of Ireland,
and in the south he had prevented it from being..erected.--
' Instead of reproaches, therefore, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man deserved the. thanks of that House, .end Lis country.
Every body saw that the affairs of Ireland were approach-
ing'a crisis; life was no longer safe, nor property worth a
year's purchase. But now a hope arose, and the Ugh"
that Acne in the Cabinet, he hoped, wonld lopg shed over
it splendour in its etuest refulgence. He did pot forget
that his Majesty, when Prince of Wales, had .assured the
he (Mr. H. Grattan) regretted in the Speech
ppasseoladgeeof Ireland of his great regard fur them. The only
which
was that relative to the Catholic Association, which was ren-
dered totally unnecessary by the passages that followed it.
The Catholic Association had been attacked as the cause of
the diserders of Ireland ; but if the Catholics bad no rights
to 'reclaim, the Association would dissolve itself. Go-
vernment had it on the oaths of their own servants that
the peace of the south of Ireland was owing to the exer-
tions bf the Association, That it, language had. been Nig-
lent he admitted ; but surely no English gentletna would
c"4"" I;a;YDIiP taI4IPI.Pf their itte4th at in-
timidation. What was the whole *history of the Euglish
Constitution but one contiuued course of ietimidatiou
against the Crown, from which the great Charter of our
liberties had been so extorted. His Majesty, by his
Speech that day, had done himself great honour, and he
felt much satisfaction in finding that in the rising genera'
tion noble and generous feelings were iliffoeed,
King's Ministers, it was eeil, vo4ld yield t:4 'Joe. o,Con--_
eell 404 the Qdbolle Asisn'Ciatidn.`. No such thing they
would wisely anticipate the natural course of events. • .
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH did net riselo prolong
the discussion. There were some points of the Speech
which he would readily pass over without discussion, but
there were other parts ass to our foreign relations, with re-.
spect to which he entertained great doubts, and would oro'
bablyhe desirous to ask for itiforrw.;tioc. Las would cites=
teemie lb., few words be iatended aoneldeeekt•td the !tow
hyli4oteeling Ofeisit4faeitoo,” grisater ilian'la4 any. former
public occasion or debate, which he had felt at the
Speech which the King's Ministers had advised his Ma-
jkaty to deliver to Parliament, illustrated, as it had beas,
by the clear, explicit, and sufficiently 'explanatory collo-
mentary of the Right honourable Geneemaa
opposite, wir, r.e t uppaared. to i.hansi•:;atfeeld
nein wantiut ire, duty ,:;and :prudence,' if, in teeatiuB
Such a mighty. subject, he Lad expree4d More fellY
the nature and purport of the OTPPoSitiora he intended to
Sehmit.. He trest'ed a,nd. believed that this Speech of Lis
•Vajes;ty'e would prove, in-its final results, the happiest
communication that ever was made from the Throes of
Eughtud—a cornsnunicatiou tending to produce national
bunion), and unanimity, in which England, by doing jus-
tice to England, widened and deepened' the foundations of
her own safety and prosPerity. The Hon. Baronet (Sir
11. Inglis), the Noble- Lord opposite (Chandos), and the
Hon. Member. for Dorsetshire (Mr. Bankes), • whose ten-
.

I

iistency he unfeignedly regretted, bad talked of not yield-
ing to.'intlro;d4Giorr, L Eq.,41 ssido:La ve~iute 'a Zhsa s 4
itrlviia ie 'ilia' if ajeety?; t t;.r<on lay that
they had an effective practical answer to this ituputati.ua
upon them, and that was to be found in the language
thrown out against them by those very oppoucuts; for
they have informed the House and the country, that it
h their wish to stir up a spirit of popular oppo,i,
tiou against the passing of the intended Bill, for the
Relief of the Cotholios. This tbreat
~rflyt held OA