The Sun.
London, England, 1842-06-24 00:00:00

arrival of Mr. Ellice he wrote to his Noble Friend an
account of an interview which he had had with two of
tits Ministers of the Shah of Persia. That interview
took place in consequence of Mr. Ellice having been in-
structed to inform the Ministers of the Shah that the
English Government could not eneourege his pretensions
to dominions beyond his own empire, and that the
Affghaas were to be considered .•as an independent
State. On his making this statement both he Ministers
protested against considering the Affghans as a Govern-
ment er a consolidated State ; they declared that a
large portion of Affghan belonged to the Shah
of Persia, and they stated that they considered
that the dominion of Persia extended to Glinenere
Commenting upon this letter, in 1836, he wrote stating
that he felt that the Government could not permit
the extension of the Persian Government further east-
ward, with a duo regard to the Indian Empire of
England. Count Simonovitch was recalled, and the
unhappy man employed in all these intrigues was heard
of no more. The rumour was that he put an end to
his own existence. Dost Mahorned Khan received a
letter from the Russian empire, accompanied by presents,
in which way all matters of importance were transacted;
and at the same time that he received that letter lie
received another from Count Simonovitch, thus open-
ing a political correstemdence. Every body knew the
pretension to power that had arisen in these very ter- •
riteries, which they were then adverting to. Was the
Governor-General of India to pass this over without
explanation? Was the Noble Lord (Palmerston) to treat
such a thing as this as a trifling matter? The time
was come when they were called' upon to show to
the Shah of Persia, that the permission of England
wes at least as valid as the permission of Russia.
They did show it, and an effect was produced
est once —(Hear.) A great deal had been said
about :he opinion of Sir Alexander Burnes, of which he
wished to speak with the greatest respect. lie (Sir J.
C. Hobhouse) had had the honour of corresponding with
him, and he considered him an honour to his station.
But, supposing Sir Alexander Burnes had given an opi-
nion contrary to that upon which Lord Auckland had
Feted, was that a charge against Lcrd Aiickland ? Was
the Governor to act uniformly on what one man said?
Was he not to consult others, and act upon what he con-
sidered as the best opinion ? He would tell the House
what the opinion of Sir Alexander Burnes was. But, in
the first place, he must say that there had been no garb-
ling whatever. There were certainly parts of the cor-
respondence suppressed, but that was for a very good
reason. They never, in ray way, attempted to conceal
the (pinions of Sir Alexander Burnes. One great pro-
ject in this affair was, whether there should have been any
intervention at all. Now, what was Sir A. Burnes'
opinion upon that paint ? In a letter to Lord Aulkland,
in 1839, he stated that having laid before his Lordship
the strong demonstrations on the part of the Russians,
and, considering the affairs of the country, he thought
that the Government ought to interfere. On the sth of
March, 1838, in a letter, also published, he stated that
the circumstances were in lull justification of that move-.
dent. In another' letter, dated June 3, 1838, he stated -
that the British Government -could not, with credit to
itself, permit the present state ofaffairs in.Caubul to con-
tinue, and he considered that they ought to demand an
explanation from the Cabinet of St. Petersburgh. -The
letter went on to state that if it was the object of a Go- •
vernment to destroy the power 'existing in Caubul it
might be done by means of the brother of Shah Soojah,
but that it was necessary to complete success that
the British Government should lake the question up,
and that it should not be left to'lhe chiefs themselves.
The letter then gave reasons why. the Sultan Dust Ma-
homed Khan should net be chosen: He stated that he
had no ability to rule ; that he liras a very good man,
but incapable of acting for himself ; and the letter con-
cluded by stating that it would be only to send two re-
giments with the Shah Soojah, `and nothing further
was required tq fix him for ever on h's throne. Now,
this was the opinion of the very man whose opinion
was taken as being in contradiction to that which was
stated to have been followed by Lord Auckland. He
(Sir J. C. Hobhouse) thought it necessary to read these
statements to the House, to prove that many parties
were deceived. He thought, if they quoted authorities,
and add him that Lord Auckland did not follow au-
thorities, when they told him that he had the n cans of
forming a right judgment and did not do so, he (Sir
J.. C. Hobhouse) said that they were wrong. Now, the
lion. Gentleman had quoted another authority—
Mr. J. H. BAILLIE—I quoted from the published
documents.
Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE—It was no less an authority
than Colonel Wade, who wrote in a most decisive way
in favour of Lord Auckland's policy. Ile might quote
twenty other authorities on the subject. Did Lord
Auckland rush headlong into this enterprise ? No ; he
maturely considered all the perils and the magnitude of •
the scheme, and in undertaking it ho had a full know-
ledge of the awful responsibility which he" took
upon . himself.—(Bear.) In a letter addreSsed to
the Secret Committee, dated the 20th of June, 1538,
he stated that there was nothing in the appearance
of Russia, to alarm him, and he believed that the
Russian agent was not to be trusted. On the 12th May,
following, he wrote to say that circumstances had oc-
curred Which would materially modify his views, for the
RuSsian agents put themselves prominently in aid of
Persia, and that opposition must be resorted to.
Extraordinary excitement was produced in the pub-
lic mind throughout the Affghan States, and in a
letter, dated the 13th October, he said that of the justice
of the course which had been- adopted, there could be no
reasonable doubt. In another letter, Lord Auckland
said that he was • fully aware. of the re,ponsibility of his
Situation. It was dated June 12,1838, and he again stated
his conviction of the hostile proceedings against Russia.
And in another part he said the seige of Herat had much
occupied the minds of the people of India and our
shrewdest observers, including Mr: Sutherland, Colonel
Skinner, &c., have concurred- in describing the fever. of
restlesness as beyond anything that had ever been seen
—"religion, and circumstances attendant upon the Rus-
sian name, lad affected the minds of all." The Hon.
Member, had affected to laugh at the effects of these
matters upon the minds of the people. Did the Hon.
Member know more than Lord Auckland—did he know
more than Mr. Sutherland or Col. Skinner ?—(Cheers.).
He must say that with these opinions before him, he
could not but think that. Lord Auckland' exercised a
sound discretion in the part he undertook.—(Cheers.)
He now turned to that part of the Hon. Member's charge
which referred to the necessity that there was of warning
Persia off Affghanistan. He thought that the opinion of
Sir Alexander Burnes on this subject would be sufficient,
who said that Persia should be kept back—dins far
shalt thou go, and no father. Then came the question
as to whether a judicious choice had been made with re-
spect to Shah Soojah. They knew nothing against
Shah Soojah. At the very time the insurrection was
brewing against Sir Alexander Barnes and Sir W. Mac-
naghten, they were warned of the mischief that was to be
anticipated by that very Shah Soojah himself. In 1814
we made a treaty with the Affghans, and made them an
independent State ; the whole of that treaty was meant
fur the protection of India, and when Persia showed
herself willing to be backed by Russia in the aggression
of our empire, of course we treated her in the same way
its when she was barked by France in 1809. For whe-
ther backed by Franco or Russia it mattered net ; it was
the fact of Persia, backed by a powerful ally, approach-
ing so near the frontier of India as to unsettle men's
minds. It was not the first time that we had gone to
Central Asia. In 1814, when Hindostan was attempted
to be taken, Lord Wellesley entered into a treaty with
the Persians to prevent India being attacked. In 1809
the Government of India counteracted an attack upon
India much in the same way. It sent Mr. Elphinstone
to Caubul to persuade the Affghans that they should
make common cause with us, and attack or act with
Persia as the case might be. The threatened invasion
did not take place—but it was this mode of acting that
prevented it. The Hon. Gentleman thought fit to say
that he did not think it at all likely that the States would
rise up against eve and he laughed at the Nepaulese.
He (Sir J. Cam Hobhouse) was of opinion that those
States should be watched closely, and with a jealous eye.
He was of opinion, tco, notwithstanding the opinion of
the Hon. Gentleman to the contrary, that the success
of the Affghan campaign in 1839 was attended with
very beneficial results ; and he could tell the

Heil. Gentleman that the disasters in Atighanistan,
great us they were, had not produced the same
feeling in India as they had here.—(Hear, hear.)
He knew it. It was only this morning that
he had seen a gentleman from Calcutta, and he was
quite surprised at the feeling it seemed to excite here.
He had " no doubt there had been. a great loss of valu-
able life, but as for thinking that the loss of the Indian
empire was concerned, or that the disasters were such as
had never occurred before, or never were likely to occur.
again, he thought it was ridiculous." He (Sir J. C.
Hobhouse) differed entirely from 'the Hon. Member.
Ile thought all Lord Auckland's policy would and must
be carried out, He believed no Governor would dare to
alter it. Was a great disaster to turn them from perse-
vering in their policy ? He trusted not. The Hon.
Gentleman had talked of this war as if nothing had yet
been gained from it. It was lamentabrb to see the igno-
rance that existed on Indian affairs. The Indus at this
moment was navigated by English steam shipS, and a
British flag hung there ; and at this moment the Ameers
of Scinde, where, a few years ago, an Englisnman dare
not shiw himself, were now as much under the con-
trol of the English as it was possible for a tributary
State to be. The Right Hon. Gentleman said that the
commerce of the Indus' had fallen off. From 1840 to
1841, the exports to the Indus rose from 5 lacs in
1840, to 43 lacs of rupees in 1841. There was a fact for
the Hon. Gentleman. The Hon. Gentleman said • com-
merce was falling off, and then spoke something
about cotton twist. Now he could tell the llon. Gen-
tleman that the export and the import duties in Calcutta
had both. considerably increased during the last com-
mercial year. The exports had increased 801,000 L, and
the imports 1,300,00(L The Hon. Gentleman said this
had been productive of many pernicious effects. He
should like to ask, what was not productive of pernicious
effects to a certain extent ? The Hon. Gentleman made

Jut the whole charge upon India to be 20,000,00(.1. A
paper which he held in his hand made the return
17,000,000/. sterling. The charges occasioned by the
war amounted to only 2,700,0001., and the revenuq only.
fell off 467,00 d, and that falling off was occasioned in
consequence of the discontinuance of the opium trade.
So much fou- the finances of India. And besides, 52,000
were- added to the Indian army during the administra-
tion of Lord Auckland. 'There were only 11 steam
boats in India, but 131 steamers were added since.—
(.Hear.) And was it nothing that the British flag
was seen where it never appeared before, on the Tigris
and Euphrates ? The best moral effect was pro-
duced in Europe by
,their policy in India, and he hoped
the Right Hon. Gentleman would not give way to any
groundless alarm, but would follow out the same policy
with respect to India. History proved that their Indian
Empire possessed an elasticity which always caused it
to rise after temporary depresion.—(Hear, hear.) If
they trusted to Parliament they never would have an
Indian empire at all. The same cuckoo cry was always
raised when they met with reverses iu Indic The Hon.