The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-19 00:00:00

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SUN I:l,'Fit• s

RA AY C 033 Urfa,
(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.
THE reazAND PILAU 1.V.T11.7 TAT 0 T 01014
n
esj I.TICCOL:as
The Committee met again this day, at one o'clock, Lord flailier.
ton, chairman. •
The case for the Flood-road Trustees having concluded, the
room was cleared for the consideration of the preamble of the Bill'.
The parties were ca led in about three o'clock, and Wrri;
• formed by the Chairman Opt the preamble of the 13',e
tw,as declared. proven. The Committee had, however, coupe
a decision, bitnding the promoters to introduce a 'l'4:
into the B:11 which woul.i prevent the line crossing `„e
Flood road on a level. The Committee would meet the Mt'
of the proposed crossing by requiring the parties to construct.:
bridge vet the railway at the point where it would interfere
thing
the road in question. The Committee regretted that
anY
like an imped;Jrient should be thrown in the way of a line so
portant to the traffic of the country ; but they were bound to ae`
that the railway should be constructed with safety N the p W
üblic.
The unopposed clauses were then gone through, and the CO
mittee adjourned till eleven o'clock to-morrow.
GREAT GRIMSBY AND sizzrrzszo
AT
lock 104
The Committee on this Bill met to-day at one n'e•-- '
Orford, chairman.
geenpardnietled.arei
The Bill was unopposed, and the
proved, the clauses were agreed to, aPnrdeathinebClOhmarnviinttgele)e
COMMITTEE ON UNOPPOSED 13,,,k
The Committee on unopposed Bills met this day at three
Lord Shaftesbury in the chair. passel
The following Bills were taken up and dec,
and Hasten lared 0 have
wtharyo,ugalindCothmemEitatsetee:r—n Tchoeuntreisghltatoinlw,
aLyew(Eelsygs° De-
to Whittles
viatiou).

GROUP A.
slleg•
SOUTH-EASTERN (DOVVS) - soon of the
This morning the Committee resumed the einoid,,ertres--
abo:ler.lTinheomatatshie..uGsuoaolchh,oeunr.ginTeehre, first witness csi.,' SePhenwn
as engineer to the South Eastern line,an
gave evideffilinasep
North Ktnt and in favour of the :South-Easrern s r 000°'
iee greatecn
the town
which he had examined. The latter Would g
dation to the mass of metropolitan travellers to and from fociencl of
of Woolwich. He was quite satisfied of the
„ ihnjUneere tb3ssil
and assistant to alie'r --siiinostththoef
Mr. Vignolles' estimates, which were too Ma. "eld instead "-
resuir
700,0001., no less than 1,960,000/. being
1,200,0001. es to the
Mr. Sergeant SHEA then cross-examined the witnesistree, it al,"
number of level crossings on the South-Eastern line.
gent. There
peered, were much more numerous than on the North, 3100011 nu
was great danger of accidents where a railwaYeipase's Twee th!
a level; but careful watching would tend greed)? w_ Was
a level
danger. on the Manchester and Leeds lime thereend bra
Wife,
crossing which was watched night and day by 3 nUaltbil Place' he'
who were paid about fifty pounds per annum. erred, but he h
had °awl
ned on
other
believed, one accident, with loss of life,
rnalaithtivaeya:d,
bouftanthyeoytwheerrse.verSyuckhwaccidents had bePPe 1
that
-se stated
thheeßreei
Being cross-examined by Mr. Metioft, the wit,sre road. ....t
puur,roch esid 0.:
rsaoisrn:theaortnly. ale
Ice eo danger();
as l believed
rahenlot.oeert
;xi;
ueeasvgrrnieemhil
1.,
nwmacraresesod:snboy leveli A crossingg x
A N over a
acsroi‘twhitrad.tedvvon, the North Kent line at Faverehatn, as 00
With sfr. StePhe°gel
e salve e is the
on the South-Eastern line, was examined to t-e 00- '
Wel Jana°
tjh
oeii:eu
nt
gh
i-
nE
eeee
rte: pope ;coo: such
On his cross-examination by Mr. sergeant present anY
witness said that he did not think there Was ' A nee vesa
to be apprehended from level crossing" nineering et-eking so
Mr. COCKBURN then said, that as the
~,,ertl pity Or Kept Cam-
now concluded, he thought this a fit efir".,-,,u, North pro-
objection, which he thought would oblige the
sgainlsn: Os'
patty to give up their Bill, and to bring it for- cross dw of
jest. The North Kent line Was to
f the I"arce had
common, for which the consent °' dof ordn'in-, that
Ordnance must be first obtained. The 13°3: .of which I'
' Pi
given their consent on certain conditions, °es ~ vignolles be
stated that his tunnel must be 15 feet ;
they should pass the common by a tunnel. '
,ir; there ranst,b
11A ft. of brickwork, his
'l4
level
and over t , the few
so that from the surface of the e'rib Mr' to fors
the rails there must be 21 Vet. According
over 0,
it of on a
nn l' fourteen
live
nolles' own section the distance would be "J"
t that the
kbur° th a
The extreme limits of deviation were five fee" ")
. Mr. Cec ~... so
could not be constructed within the limits, i.atherieiss
referred to the decision of Committee against thineade b 7 Mr' see
Lincoln line, where a similar objection had been f 04
geant Wrangham. ; urnstaneea e. del
Mr. Sergeant WRANGHAM said that the c.rc i , 1,01 „
case were not the same as those of the Cambridgehea4o thst P.
engineer . the preSePt;
line, where it was admitted by the Butt in t
case the proposed depth being
was impossible to keep within the limas.
_d the lit 0
htickoJ -,,, el
of deviation 5 feet, making 19 feet ; and if 6 fec. -
so , tun- 4
easY t°
Mere requih" al
earthwork were necessary, it weuld still be
of 13 feet deep. But even if a tunnel of 15 feet ar , teat. r
to go tO 33.' sergeai°
the North Kent Company were at liberty
deviation, with the consent of the lantiowners.--(Ml:me 110'11;
Wrangham here referred to the Act of Paliament.)
e', 04::
owners in the present case were the Board of °Honest. of Po.;
was improbable that they, wishing the tunnel to pass: OSP b
surface, would refuse their consent to Its passing deer-r
been intended. 14 feet, an
coolant°
The CHAIRMAN was about to give the decision of the
flk
on this point, when to
Mr. COCKBURN said that he had not been heard in angdWer b°
Sergeant Wrangham, and that he had a right to be h
the Committee gave their decision. 60 a de'
The CitaiemiSi said that the Committee were satiffi'",
cidMed against Mr. Cockburn's objection. stilsret t°
r. CocKBURN insisted on his right to be heard io -
Mr. Sergeant Wrangham. di 0 tie
The CHAIRMAN said that the Committee were at lihe"
tide the question at whatever time they pleased. t to 0$
wish '
Mr. COCKBURN submitted to the decision, but to.
~,a
understood that he considered this a gross violation of th‘enitoti"
The CHAIRMAN said that the violation must be the is- he
Committee. t od tbet '.-
Mr. COCKBURN replied that he wished it to be under"
es.
thought so.
called an.• e$
Colonel Dancey, Royal Artillery, was then eaesoo heti
re es-
amined by Mr. MERREWETHER as to the danger to be 3*- the P
from the crossing of Messrs. Hall's powder district by
Asa
posed North Kent line. r. 31Sios‘
WETHER as to the value of the land through Mr. Clutton, land valuer, was then examined hi .14 pro
e 14r.
North Kent line would pass. that o
Mr. Merton, land valuer,• •evidence to
gave similar oo'
Clutton. 000 --si
Mr. G. Smith, also a land valuer, corroborated the Ps,, pror
dence as to the value of the land, houses, fte., 00 tu" of
North Kent line. octal°
Mr. Rodgers, architect attcl surveyor, °Poke to the •
aolte t°
the estimates of the South-Eastern line. air h ii%.
Mr. Bennet, solicitor to the South-Eastern line,
...o,et ._,4
~, church, I"' 0174
meeting of the incumbent, &c., of St. Mary
which the pulling down of the church was assented to.trect 0 the
had received a letter from the incumbent to the etne irevrsolthrilenv
resolution at the meeting. Being cross-examined by ''..,er. t'a cerisidi"
h svhich the
the witness said that he was aware that the ineurns-_, °wee
was not sufficient, but that the Bishop's consent had
rectly given. to ,
The CHAIRMAN then said that he had a Prs. sy the Paso(
which he thought would save time if assented to "s conee'o'ded%
He proposed that the examination of witnesses... eoneitiee
the South-Eastern and North Kent lines should o jroysoa os
before any further evidence against the London sod opitli°Potlf
was given. The Committee might then exsress seocroyaon
enosoo flea'
favour of one of these enes,,abd the case against th
sing that
might be carried on by that one. JO
Mr. MEIIREWETIRER &Oiled giving Z'y °Plni°"
the'
a 'sten eof Mr. Cockburn and Mr. Alexander• accented t°
Mr. Sergeant Wrangham and Mr. Wilmore ass
o'cleci,
Chairman's proposition. 1
The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow at 2
-------
nNS.
HOUSE OF COMM-
-4151°
GROUP F.
g Sli ,11100"
BIRIVS.INGHAIYI AND GI.OI7CV-„„g51 0 -
IArAL.Ir (WORCESTER BRANCO 411-- lab:
TENXIAIVX EXTENSION)• ,n 00 l,1,):J 'I"
This Committee met to-day at twelve o'clock; snt roes- .
s.
Hon. J. Shaw, Chairman, Mr. V. Stewart. Mr' ''''
ra,lol°,,
Lockhart, and Mr. Branston. „A for Pe_sseree°
Mr. Weeressex appeared for the Bill, and asic'rn engsvoloO'
to proceed with the ease in its behalf. '"- sod tli°
• shoo
had been entered into by the Birrni° tar ps-robes..,
tester Company to the Cheltenham and W"ctl, tbeseb the'
as soon as they were called on they would constrocs otia he,ob• 0
They had now been requested to fulfil that Pledge'rseetd6l_,/ oft.
fore, prayed that the consideration of the Bill be P's Dews e II•
Th • roper - deo
Great Western Company, on the grounds tha, i
... ost a
hop di.
The application was opposed by Mr. Cartes
.0 .04 'ola
not been given of the intention to proceed, and 2,151" wolC„,, IP'
had been given in favour of the Great WeSterdrtec`.ooo I°
CligiP
broad gauge, which would interfere with alfY
the esg'
Committee could at present come to.' sested bY De ref
After some desultory conversation, it was gig.- d
ss bettetteferf„jot
man that the further consideration of the Bill -sertere ‘) had
poned till such time as an opinion on the main uoits"'
WO
to this debate on the Oxford and Rugby—broad g la w•
nroloent011) °e'
been given in another quarter.
This suggestion was acceded to, and an adlo- lout
by mutual consent, of the Committee till Wide,' ,
at one o'clock. ----- .

293%
54%
54

74%

2 0

-----
GROUP GG. „ogli. of
sidTerhethCeomcinisteteseo:nreassosemmubclxedotfhtishemforilnlian,g;ar:P;„:aleo;loooo;
decisions of
avikrciixoN , eetioidttgergol
it
efore entering ow their consideration, boweve
gin 0
r. Sergeant WII&NGUAM took an objection
and A s hGalraesloolwdeParspienrto
..4i 0....,01
the preamble, namely, that the consent of the Edinbni."_!. line "
Sancti
gow RailwayAO"
had been to the formation of the bra P.
harbour, of 41/‘5-06
thatwas put in
Company had
es 22, 25, 26,
This fact ~1 by Sr'
was corroborated by a letter reCeiv.-- „oil/
the secretarof .. Se"
y the said Company.
The Committee_,,,ienCvs
of
the
clauses passed the preamble ins
cone
,f to':
were agreed to without orpsi" the laii"ae, 111'
Claus
on
of a majority of those presentt
thhaaisdktenatnileenectei'nbiliens-,:1i0ei."1"4,.
t Ta:Li
upon the oua gall'
• 3', were objected to by Mr. Sergen
w... .
they were also passed with some verbal amendroe ,_„bridir,
Clauses were added to protect the Garnkirk and
to_e flon'"
way and and 27, which referred to _..oti
, the Bill was then ordered to be reported ",.
Alb
The Committee then went on to consider the ‘.40-.
33 v.-a (10_,t 4
AltniimaD iniANcii or 1:r,..--tit siiP -fps' 01',
NIZIVLARNOCIE, AlO3 .5."-- The Y" jOr
Mr. TALICIT opened the case for the in P° e
Counsel described Barthead as a :place of sonw in ?..0. 111 Go,
of manufactures, and numbered 5,000 JohabL": 'in pith .4100
•,e SW vot/a p
would open up the district by giving a ccurununo. l grest pit id
gow, Paisley, Greenock, and many other pleoescolet concith t 0
and considerable goods traffic. The lAnrned to deal 1,10 1'
very able address by calling upon the Cominittete!
idence W
preamble of the Bill in accordance with the v 01''
dare
/t 1
would adduce. opening
The Committee, at the conclusion of the
prornoter:.ortince e
00
journed till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

--
EAST DEIZZIKAIVIC4II°:DP :;3219111° CO
se 9%/111 A
he ust''..
RAILWAY. bled at t- 0 10
The Select Committee on this group re•assierab. _ coder)
al Mr. Bidder, a
thhoeut this morning, and proceeded with the rebutttd*
iorviicb, ifig
case of the promoters of the East Derinalo sfe case f°'
rest Railway, and the atfirmative evidenc
WR¢'
breectil
yuctliam branch of the Norwich and Brariooo ••• 00 4041
though it would increase thudistance tretween on -„„, ono..
oads, it would cost less for construction
,Norwich some few miles, yet, lt3 a porfion of the 1.7,:5t pere;;lr
roved th:at the WY.n Derma
„if
and W., h wieDirest line, and hence p'ro's in, di. pp ~..
to the latiblie, The
eitiMates pleteffier: eg "..
0 .
...e#4
lhantoggileroul, opoitiolo

41:d Norwich Direct line, as put in by Mr. Gravit, were far too
While the traffic calculations were ex( ezdingly exaggerated.
.Mr. CALVERT informed the Committee that the promoters for
"cm he appeared had entered into an agreement with the Eastern
Union Extension Company to work their joint trains in conjunc-
tiou, in the event of Parliament sanctioning their railway.
111 r. Locke, on behalf of the East Dereham and Norwich Direct
line, confirmed the evidence of Mr. Gravit as to the cost of con-
struction.
This having closed the case on behalf cf the direct line.
Mr. CALVERT addressed the Committee on the evidence adduced
in favour cf the Dereham and Norwich direct, and applied hsrn.
"elf More particularly to the difference of time and c_ st between
It and the line via Derehsm. The distance travelled by the latter,
"reeding that required on the former, was at least seven miles;
an d eight stations, entailing a delay of at least 50 minutes, were either
t
be stopped at, or the traffic anticipated at them wholly given
P' His Learned Friend had denied that the fares would be higher
on the line he represented, and had cited the maximum clause
an effectual precaution against high tolls. But the
cardse of Trade required on a line returning 10 per
"`• a diminution of its tolls. The direct line would
nquestionably within a short period return at lea. t that amount,
t the additional cost of working the line seven miles longer
2.t11d at once prevent its ever attaining the requisite per centage,
`tht its ever lowering its toll. The traffic at present passing be-
twhn Norwich and Manchester would be diverted into channels
•-"°ll3' unconnected with the former ; Yarmouth would obtain
a large proportion of it, and the town which the line affected
to
benefit would be materially, if not ruinously, injured.
Upwards of 22,0001. of the money subscribed for the circuitous
lute was, independent of the purchase of acreage necessary for
°i! construction, to be spent among the landowners for the interest
e good-will. Such a waste of capital was wholly uncalled for,
while unprecedented by any line previous or contemporaneous,
LariTeicisought by the projectors of the Direct Railway. His
Friend appeared to rely considerably upon the advantage
:42ailig to Wyndham by facilities of communication, while the
4-4 or Norwich had been virtually disregarded. Did that dis.
sal7; howeV2r, require no accommodation ? Was its progress so
th 'rand its prosperity so palpable as not to need an increase? Let
e POPulation tables of the years 1831 and 1841 attest the accuracy
w
such a proposition. The census returns of the former year
14
I p3pulation of 60,000, and "of the latter, 67,000 inhabi-
V..a bare increase of 6 per cent. in ten years ; while, in the
leeding period, he found the increase had been more than 21
Brent. Such a circumstance was a remarkable and undeniable proof
cif
th, f comparative declining state of a town, which, from its central
hay.tit'a, might, but for want of more ready railway communication,
r 2 been expected of unusual prosperity. The gradients of the direct
„; Were far inferior to its rival; the site of the termini presented
ilar advantages, and considering the propositions of the two
thee' in every particular, he contended there was not one on which
Cornmittee were not warranted in giving preference to the
'get%

The Learned Counsel having concluded his address, the Commit-
2d.
...
—JoUrned at half-past four till to-morrow.

GROUP L.
I'ORTSMOITTII ATMOSPHERIC LINE.
,
kt.'"ae Committee for this group resumed at twelve this morning,
E. „ B. Denison, in the chair.
'. 111'. Stephenson, the eminent engineer, was called by Mr. COCK-
' Cr, and stated that he was engineer of the Chester and Holyhead
Cr,
Had been called upon by the Directors about 15 months ago
ake a report respecting the expediency of laying it down as an
itt c*Pheric line, and in consequence of that circumstance his at-
4dao had been turned to the principle of atmospheric traction.
.
ito- 'ad therefore gone over and made experiments on the Dublin
4:: and had not only made experiments himself, but had com-
h3ned two other gentlemen to continue them, and had elimi
-
deed anomalies which induced him to make a report
el. the adoption of the atmospheric principle on the
, hirer and Holyhead line would be injudicious. On small
el "431 of five or six miles in length without stations, that prin.
el
do very well ; but to trunk lines it would be totally in-
ttaigeable. In his experiments on the Dante), line the speed with
of 30 tons each never exceeded 30 miles an hour ; while on
470tive trains the speed was almost always more than 30 miles
40 ,_"°°r, and was often more than 40 miles an hour with trains of
eN"' 50 tons each. The first effect of the working of the engine
Ise lb reduce the density in the pipe, and consequently gave room
kin! admission of the denser atmosphere. It was, of course, a
lt,e4le in pneumatics, that just in proportion as the point was re-
114d from the engine would be the slowness of the reduction of
44 density ; so that that part of the pipe which was furthest Irons
lientrie would be the slowest exhausted, and as the train pro-
100a, the rarified air in the tube would be gradually driven up
et.7,d4 the further end, and that combining with the denser at.
llisr Ire beyond the piston, would tend to reduce the velocity of
41 Zia- This, however, would be just in proportion to the length
bith „hoe, and, as on the Dalkey line, this opposition, combined
t.'"e leakage, had created the anomaly of which he had spoken.
Its:Pedeel the velocity. But just in proportion as the tr i 4.11 ap-
kti, heti the engine the velocity was increased, and as it advanced
. N the engine the velocity was diminished, so that there would
4427, ,°f power, and on the Dalkey line he believed that they
"As Dia-amed the maximum, and the consequence would be that as
Nat`le -"
e *as increased in length the velocity would be reduced.
blade roallowance for momentum, for in the experiments
b., tireN
Nia i. -. ,Of it entirely disappeared. From Mr. Hawkesley's for.
keel` appeared the train could not be moved at all after six or
Iftee stiles in ler gth. The loss of power, as indicated by the fall
4"hatotneter, was 69 per cent. downwards, and on a 30 tuns
SlO 4 Was 57 per cent., the mean power being 43 per cent. He
'l4Ze applied Mr. Hawkesley's formula to the experiments, and
the tot
:d them almost precisely correct. He had before supposed that
44 1. of power was owing to the leakage. On the Dalkey line
• , ttlel,. 11. "age was 200 feet per minute per mile, and the Dalkey
alles
Mr length,
3,000 feet per minute, on a line of six or seven
t
. %Kite length. There would be a point at which the Dalkey
%teen. would not move a train at all. There were three
. 4 Ctances which would tend to impair the velocity
letti: train—the leakage, which would increase in pro-
, aity to the length of the line; the increased den.
INL'ilich resulted front that increased leakage; and the in-
are friction which was a consequence of the increased density_
'llat,i‘the length of the pipe would act as a direct principle to pro-
these three conditions. The velocity of the train was in
a-"Of the power of the engine to the diameter of the tube; it
t‘e%
4 v., square of the two diameters ; so that just as
tee laci
tvdias increased the power of the engine must
nor , so that the increase of the power of
bed :411111054,11 the Portsmouth atmospheric line from 120 to 150
li n(51,.... while they had increased the diameter of the tube,
IL booed nothing. for them. He believed that no atmospheric
tsim hat 4 sufficient to answer the purposes of the public on a
The line would be subject to greater irregularities,
t 14,1444 line of sixty miles, with stations every three miles,
eltsee-s,`dorterY engines would be required ; while with
ellite4ttationson a locomotive line, only 9 engines would be
le7 frete"tned there would evidently be less liability from 9 engines
e....111t4;40 engines The consequence would be, that while any
11.'"ii te '2.whick occurred. on the atmospheric line would be a penile.
,t ih, ',least a comparatively durable obstacle, that on the locomo-
044*°old be only transient. In addition to this, there was the
te.prOpete,for the locomotive line that the power could be increased
Zee, tet°rl to the weight of the traits which the engine had to
N, rale on the atmospheric line the power must be always
11'4 ittZ. The endeavour to meet the difficulty by more name-
ee the Would prove a failure, for it is matter of experience
14,-Rak Public would not be interfered with by such frequent
11 ,n.
ritetsZere was certainly an advantage on the side of
etNte 4"Pheric line in saving the weight of the
teol'al engine. The weights of these varied from 16 to
lttlFlltet.,°,4 the narrow gauge. On the broad gauge the
7. °f engine varied from 23 to 33 tons. The engine and
ei7ite, tea carried the express train to Birmingham weighed 18
Cite farce
at a rate of 40 miles an hour, performing the 112
Cat e..'ee hours. In general the weight of the engine and
At* 1-;about one-third of the whole train. There would be
k tilt 4ue on the Epsom line during certain seasons
rakietle ears and Mr. Stephenson believed that the
kik Principle could not satisfy the requirements of the
st`tkeleetT b respect to the safety, he believed that the crossing.
le.. Th d Prove seriously dangerous from the liability to colli-
N 7 to ;I.° Was a 100 horse engine to convey the train down the
istt Ate 2,ston-square, and for working 14 or 15 trains a day
Itelksecfitt3ic of road, and he calculated that the expense was not
it ~,the ,/ the difference of the power to 150-horse power,
lemtistk-41tance to three miles, as he found that there would be
,e9i) le f on
, t.,". °;..".01. per mile. The cost of the single engine was
a'‘ltt.-4404t•tei,"- per annum, and assuming Mr. Samuda's estimates
le, .. 'a, that a passage' of 2,000 trains its the year would
Vitt ell expense of 331. a mile—putting this to the 9,000/.
‘teW 1 e"ich had been allowed for other purposes, there was a
ICl47'Nit,__s4 ha mile for working expenses alone. On the
tekielort '''ll line the cost was 5001. per mile, allowing
lie, liti:tereste This was the expense of a single line, for a
14tliat th had hot been calculated. With respect to the asser.
letytenode force ,of gravity alone would carry the trains down
that trl3.lanes, he had to say that from his own experience he
It, NI '''oa had been stepped by the atmosphere.
‘lilfittehnqUirY of Mr. M. Mtefees, Mr. Stephonson replied that
Villht e.
Of the atmosphere was as the square of the surface to
IS
tetha .
ed 4 eat h%-seeXamination of Mr. TALBOT Mr. Stephenson re-
,l:,,,‘tt4hi had heard that. the line at Dalkey was wider very
Natii: circumstances. At Dalkey there was a connecting
'As tte. a at right angles with the main pipe, the leakage in
40110.19 feet ill a Minute, while at in the vacuum tube
44, " feet
111,1:10,eh But this excess was, In his opinion, attribut-
, oktne wa,of more, to the pump than to the connecting pipe.
;14,44:asetio
i Pi rking very
ot eleciently when a
lie was at Dalkey, but
tie‘ Pe need n be more than very short length. He
klit,7 s' ,is to the Croydon Committee a year ago, and had been
vt'ketct of their investigation. He had then stated that
4Sk:tOD-4Ori the train on the Dalkey line was at its maximum,
c444.4e.114 tfedaintolehftimt thattheTvheelorceict slavcwcumulating at the
yerwtaain
as a slight aceeles.
' 1e.4 th . he tube.
INAitbea 4 4, he attributed to the diminished friction which had
Zille;t4t °tit*: M.Mr. Hawkesley's formula, and the
year he
.' et, the _train approached the engine. Last year
, e, le e„.whole of the loss of power to leakage, but at that
14"1: "1 .;_nothing of friction. The only difference be-
,,,k.y
,p etttitence then and now was, that the loss of velocitldy
IN ht.the,uted to two elements instead of one. He cou
Itik4 Of th ' the result of friction was to be ascribed to the ex.
tti..,ttttlitslzaii;,,euitrieboyf the pumping engine, or whether it was. the
e the piston is the tube. The motion oft
lethll,k ihrt-13' the effect of propulsion and partly the effect
litt,Stlani, Wast of the motion of the air, at the first stroke
Ils"lt,,'O th„ equal to the force of the stroke. But this would
I 114 t 4 Neal' first column of air which the pump commanded,
k :,4141:1 the 4441 would not move at all, except to an attenuation
r
t:ith 41d tevaearley left by the air drawn out. The leakage in
'lt‘ Lthe h l'aeity of the air would be indicated by the height
0 "lON a arornet
\A ikt 13, he er stood respectively at the engine and on the
0 'tie tet°lnete 7 a single ratio. Indeed, be could.not see the use
I, tSherlo. f thts at all, but if one only were used, the depressing
If tlot 't.the ,tie Mercury in the earometer would indicate the
O% entir lo the tube, and consequently its density. The
1 kitt:tocetZ,was certainly not so efficient a machine for tree-
os`te ''ttaen -ttlfe• On a small railway of 5 or 6 miles in length,
IL tt le e th
csi„ tipa the , ° atmospheric principle allowed of an economical
ii VOL, 44 4roher of trains. He had stated that the locomo-
t '4, 4 ten .
tots, 1 e titobliged to bend to public convenience, but he
If t v, th .
Lt 4 y b re, ho e Public had ever been obliged to bend to the
L'i taittead ede *ever true that the London and Birmingham
teNt, rani Lenised'th t the express trains would consist only
's
*4,4ll:,l4lltAltt'ite_llceit!
tsalifi carriages.
.He dared to say that it would
ii, er *ell rd.class carriages could be taken by the e. x-
et 4. i t, i 4 Ing Wit as the first-class carriages. There was a diffi.
IV k thsh4 h b 4 large number of passengers on particular
\ t he
it% 0, 011,Clue,ter not wish to start-quick locomotive trains
104 ;'ris tr„ of an hour from each other, but he thought
00
1:411t:t.li 4'4414 ha Would be equally dangerons. In the event of
✓ kt itit.the stop" the same time, and to overrun, and not to
tel tetStbettet the Deping Places, there would be a danger of collision,
10i ‘,0.!ii,4-`llireeeothta Were down or up he did not see that the
eety.lre itatire, eu• This would only happen at the crossings,
l'a Si:, -tttio ell the number of crossings, but he believed
kb,,, 4114 n Of Pi
Pe -tes; Min. elPe would be a meeting-place. He was,
e`ttet
,lie:ig its tothe . experience on. a. locomotive line
ki'l 41% Upen the atmospheric line ; and on a
0 yt, thet4ity the locomotive principle, there was
1(144 etet kitt;,•bLlt if the man at the junction who had com-
t tkrit, there turfed them the wrong way the collision would
J ,N,, frog. '''', as ne .
NI - alio, Possibility of a train intended for one line
ill le fat., thtcbe tine at an ordinary crossing-place, for in order
e.• itel, , et _ ate, ' to the other the engine would have to be re.
id lett 'll ' gradient
tvt,, t h,n_lt 10,0_ 6 the atmospheric principle had the ad-
'l II le tat7at tt."°tlve line the engine would slip the moment
fs 14 flit lo 'gee s 1°a(1- They assumed the engine at tl6 tons
01 hi 1. 'gee
at
35, so
Ai. Nil , b, that the tractive power exerted was
f NI.. 014 °Uiy i that had merely reference to expenditure
re ;ti‘he graspt a in fuel, end velocity, An engine such
r Nt,,N4ktet4444,in on a plane of 1 in 330 at forty mites an
00 ' ocokiii• Tat'
'4, I in 100 is equal to about 52 feet in a
di* hatter..,,3._,,,::;,ttali:s power would basely take itself up at
et. Iladiere 5 the atmospheric principle lay in
4 but -., and it ;route, of course, overcome easier
' 111 1 01 4 1011 g line, he thought that it was not

only commercially disadvantageous, but mechanically undesirable.
Locomotive engines could work up gradients of 1 in 100, but at a
very reduced speed.
To Mr. M. MILNES, Mr. Stephenson stated that be had con-
templated a combination of the locomotive and atmospheric prin-
ciples on the line which he had charge of from Tring to Worcester,
where, going up to Dudley, there would be a gradisnt of 1 in SO
over about five miles of road ; but lie had found it very expensive.
He had taken his estimates of cost from Mr. Cubitt's evidence, and
coincided with him in the opinion that 67,0001. would be sufficient
for the stationary engines. But in the estimate for the vacuum
tube he differed, as he thought that it ought to be 4,500/.
instead of 4,5001. He based a calculation of 5001. per mile
for water to supply the stationary engines, for they ex.
pended 6,0001. for the engine at Blackwell, and 3,0001.
for the wells at Camden.town. He did not, however, know what
facilities there existed. for the supply of the water on the proposed
line. The engine at Camden town was constructed by the Messrs.
Maudslay, and worked expansively, but not so much as it might da,
and he could not say whether it was more expansive than the
engine at Dalkey ; but he thought that not a single instance could
be adduced of a stationary engine being worked for so little as
Samuda had stated, and he believed that the extra
expense on the atmospheric line would be above 9,0001.
He was not aware that, exclusive of the electric telegraphic,
the points and crossings and the valve, the two lines were about
equal, but such might be the case. He did not think that it would
be fair to take the number of trains into consideration, because the
weights carried by the locomotive trains was so much greater as to
render them in effect on a par with the greater number of trains
on the atmospheric line.
To the inquiries of Mr. OCwALL,

Mr. Stephenson stated that there was no opportunity of judging
of the power of stopping en the Dalkey line, for after the train left
the tube it went up a plane of 1 in 50 so that in fact it was going
up hill, but in his experiments they had failed in obtaining any great
facility in stopping. In starting he certainly thought the atmos-
pheric principle had something of an advantage.

. . .
To the re examination of Mr. M. Smith the witness stated that,
in his estimation of working expenses, he had taken the traffics on
both lines as equal. With respect to the opinion expressed by
the promoters that the Dalkey line he could say that he had fully
considered the reasons alleged, and was quite decided in his
opinions, especially as he was confirmed by the formula of Mr.
Hawkesley and the experiments of Mr. Samuda, which had been
published since his own. The connecting tube at Dalkey
was a solid cast-iron pipe, and was covered with tar, so
that there was every care taken to prevent leakage.
and he believed that a large quantity of the leakage was to be
ascribed to the pump. The same cause would equally operate
whether the pipe were long or short, and the leakage was pretty
uniform throughout the whole length of the line. With respect to
the number of trains, they must of necessity be restricted to the
number of crossing placeii ;'but 12 or 15 trains a day might be
worked with tolerable facility. That, however, depended upon
the equability with which the trains worked, and he thought it
would be practically impossible to secure perfect equability through-
out. The objections of the Atmospheric line were chiefly to the
single line, for that was subject to all those overshootings
and collisions of which he had spoken. In stating that the
peculiar advantage of the atmospheric triumph lay in the power of
overcoming steep gradients, he meant to assert that credit was
due to the rope which drew, as well as to the air which propelled
the train. He had founded his statements on Mr. Samuda's
tables, as well as his own, in fact, on both sets of tables.
Mr. Locke, the eminent engineer, stated that he had paid con-
siderable attention to the atmospheric principle, and had read
most that :had been written on the subject, though he had not
been to Dalkey. He had read Mr. Stephenson's report,
and :perfectly agreed with his conclusions. He had
paid attention to the gradients on the direct line, and
in the event of the atmospheric principle proving a failure it might
be converted into a locomotive line, but it would be a very bad one
as the gradients on one.half of the line varied from 1 in 80 to 1 in
100. The increase of the length of the tube would have the effect
of decreasing the mean velocity as the breakage would be greater,
and the friction greater, and the els inerthe of the atmosphere
would be more difficult to overcome. The velocity of the motion
of the air in the tube was greater the nearer the engine was ap-
proached, and the further the recession was towards the piston
the less; and the rushing of the air from the neighbour-
hood of the piston towards the other end of the
pipe occasioned a friction of the particles of the air amopg them-
selves, and thus retarded the piston and, conseqUenny, the train'
He did not think that a single atmospherie line could at all afford
the same accommodation as a double locomotive line. The expense
of the Chichester Railway for a double line, taking the main line
and excluding contingencies, was 17,415/. a mile. On the lit-
toospheric single the expense would be 16,650/. a mile ; but if the
latter was a double line, it would cost more than 20,0001 a mile.
The Htmospheric tubes would cost 270,0001. Twenty
engines at 4,0001-100,0061.—and four brossing en-
gines, 20,0001., and other engines as much more. This
made, the whole coat of the way would be 420,000/. But from
this, limre was to be deducted the cost of 30 locomotive engines, at
a rate of 1,7501. each, making a total of 52,000/. There was also
20,0004 for sheds and repairing, and 27,0001. for the other charges,
making altogether 100,0001., which, deducted fram the gross sum,
gave 320,000/. for the estAlishment of the atmospheric power.
The interest of this would be 16,000/. a year. Now, the whole
expense for haulage on the Guildford and Chichester line would be

15,7441., so that the whole expense of the latter would
be less than the mere interest for the establishment of
the atmospheric power. With respect to the passage of trains, he
found from experience that there were certain hours of the day
which the public preferred, and at which the trains must necessarily
be large. There was also a great adaptability to the locomotive
principle to supply the sudden and unexpected traffic and to answer
an its variety. He thought that the traffic of the Epsom line would
be as much as that railway could carry, and when the other traffic
came upon it he believed that they would have great difficulty in
meeting it, and at the time of Epsom races, it would be im-
possible, especcially when the North Kent traffic came on the
line at Sydenham. With respect to the crossings, he believed the
danger on the atmospheric line would be decidedly greater than on
the locomotive line, particularly as the trains come into the stations
at the top of their speed. They could certainly cut off the tube,
but great precision would be required; and they must either let
off the velocity, or the velocity would involve a certain degree of
danger. With regard to haulage, there were 37 tons of coals
consumed at Dudley daily, which was equal to 411 horses;
and applying that to 150 honor power, h• found that In-
stead of being 50.• 7.10 •it was 7d. 5.10. With respect
to the men at the station he had doubled them, for he was con&
fident that for the mail trains they would be necessary. The
whole expense of the haulage would by these means be increased
from 71d. to Is. a mile per train. On the Dalkey Railway the
cost of haulage amounts to Is. a mile, where the trains were
lighter than they proposed to have the trains on this line. The
whole expense actually Incurred on the Dalkey Railway was
1,4804, and, giving the atmospheric railway every advantage, he
found that the expense of haulage would be ls. a mile. On loco-
motive lines the expenses of haulage was from l Id. to 11 id. per
mile, and on this all the great lines agreed. Taking the estimate
as in tons, the cost would be three times in favour of the locomo.

Ave principle, from the greater weight they could carry by one
rain.
The Committee here adjourned.

GROUP P.
THZ ABERDARE RAILWAY.

The Committee assembled this morning at the usual hour, and
proceeded with the further consideration of the clauses to be inserted
in the Bill.
Mr. WILLIAMS appeared to request the Committee to allow the
clause which had reference to the passage of the railway through
the lands belonging to Mr. Crasham Bayley might be struck out,
and he proposed to insert a new clause, which should have re-
ference to all the owners of land who were placed in a similar po.
sition as Mr. Bailey with regard to the passage of the railway.
The clause, atter some little discussion, was agreed to, and
ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Sir T. PHILLIPS appeared to support the petition of Mr. Powell,
who leased lands from Mr. Bruce Price, and intended shortly to sink
a coal mine in the vicinity of the railway. He wished to have
sufficient accommodation afforded to him for the transmission of
his coals, and for that purpose required the Company either to
bring their railway close to his land, or to make a branch from the
pit, or to allow him the power of making a branch to the railway.
The clause, with amendments, was agreed to. _ . .

The remaining portion of the day was occupied entirely pith
the passing of clauses connected with the arrangement of tolls, and
the interests of landowners.

The Cc romittee then adjourned

uliOL1)
EILEVIASH VALLEY RAILWAY.

The Committee on this group met shortly after 12 o'clock this
morning, and re-committed the Bill authorising the construction
of the Erewash Valiey Railway, for the purpose of agreeing to the
amendments introduced into the preamble.

A clause was inserted in the Bill, giving the promoters power to
make the negatived branches, provided they could obtain the con.
sent of the landholders through which it would pass, and also
giving the Company a right of way over the Erewash Canal.
The remaining clauses were agreed to, and the Chairman having
been directed to report the Bill as amended, the Committee
broke up.

GROUP X.

cAranizancm AND laNCOLN StAILWAY.

Major Hanley, of Boston, was the first witness called at the
sitting of the Committee this day—His opinion was, that the Cam.
bridge and Lincoln line would be much more convenient and use-
ful for all purposes to that part of the country than the London
and Yorkshire.
To Mr. Sergeant KINOLAILE—Was also in favour of the Cam-
bridge and Lincoln line, because it was a line capable of being
cheaply constructed.
Mr. Wm. Parker, J.P.—Resides near Bourne. Was in favour
of the Cambridge and Lincoln line, because it passed through the
centre of a country capable of great fertility, and would afford much
accommodation to a large population, which was annually increas-
ing. The line would pass through a district called the Black Sluice,
which was a continuous level of 100,000 acres. There is now a
Bill before Parliament for draining and improving the Black Sluice
navigation. _

The entire day was taken up with the production of witnesses
whose testimony was of a character precisely similar to the fore-
going, and presented no new feature whatever, and varying only
as to the locality from whence the witnesses came, all of whom
concurred in the general opinion that the Cambridge and Lincoln
scheme would be productive of great benefits to the whole district
through which it was to pass, benefits which they contended could
not be the result of the formation of the London and York line.