The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-18 00:00:00

THE BLN, LONDON, TITES DA T MORNING, FEBRUARY 18, 1645.

was a principle to which no one in that House could
object. But the whole question turned upon what the
Right Hon. Gentleman had stated, that a judicious
selection had been made in the articles to be reduced.
Was the selection so judicious as to warrant an ex-
pectation that the revenue would rise to such an extent
as to justify the expectation that the Government
would be able to get rid of this impost at the end of
three years. Now, he thought, in the absence of any
attempts to show this, either by the Right
Hon. Baronet on :Friday night, or by the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer on that
night, which articles were likely to produce this increase,
it was only left for him to meet an assertion by a
counter assertion. He said, then, there was no reason
able ground for expecting such a rise in the revenue.--
(Hear, hear.) He thought that the experience of the
last few years showed that the hope expressed by the
Right Hon. Gentleman was not quite so well-founded as
the Right Hon. Gentleman was pleased to say it was.
When the income-tax was proposed three years ago,
trade was in a reduced state, and the tax
was not likely to realise an extraordinary
large sum. Since [then, however, things had
changed, profits had considerably increased, and hence
the returns to the :revenue would be nearly double what
was formerly realised. But he believed the income-tax
was acquiesced in upon the assurance repeatedly made
in that House by the Right Hon. Baronet, that it was in-
tended to decrease a deficiency in the public Exchequer,
and so soon as the deficiency was made up, the impost
was to be discontinued. Now, they saw from this that
the tax was founded upon a state of things which existed
no longer, and, although another assurance was held out
that it was to be continued for three years
only, there was every possibility of its being
made ultimately permanent. He thought Hon. Gentle-
men had said, however, that it was desirable the tax
should be kept under their controul, and that at the ex-
piration of three years they would have the power to
reconsider it, but he confessed this was all he had heard
to induce him to believe that the tax would be of a tem-
porary, instead of a permanent character. At the time
the tax was first imposed there was a deficiency in the
revenue of two millions and a half ; and he was pre-
pared to say that this was not a sufficient defi-
ciency to justify the imposition of a tax of
so oppressive a character. But as he had
said before, the House and the country, relying on the
temporary nature of the tax,'consented to allow its oppo-
nents to remain in a minority, when the question was
first brought forward. Had there not been sitch a pro-
mise held out of its non-continuance he very much
doubted whether it would have met with the slightest
approbation. It was stated when it was first brought
forward that the tax pressed more on the rich than the
artizan. This was not the case, for the experience of
the last three years had proved that the income-tax was
a burden on the employment of the population of
the country. There was another objection to
the tax. It was confined to England. Why should
an Irish gentleman, possessing an income of 5001. a-year, be
relieved from paying the income-tax. There was no reason
whyjthe rich man in Ireland should not contribute his share
of the tax as well as the rich man in England. In this coun-
try there was some want of employment, but in Ireland the
want was painfully great. The Right Hon. Baronet, how-
ever, exempted the rich Irish gentleman from the tax, and im-
posed upon him another burden, which induced him to spend
his money in other parts of the world. Now, in no country
was it so desirable that capital should be introduced as it was
in Ireland, where there was a large demand for employ-
ment, and, to meet this demand, a very considerable
capital would be required. The rich gentleman was exempted
from the income-tax, and in its stead was a burden which
pressed more or less on the great body of the people. They
were told that in the reductions made on various articles of
consumption they would derive a benefit equal to an equivalent
for the income-tax. Now, they had had some experience
upon tills of late, but he would defy any gentleman to get up
and tell him that the country had derived any
very material benefit from the former reductions
made by :the Right Hon. Baronet. The Government had
taken credit to themselves for relieving the country from
certain duties, but it struck him very forcibly that his Noble
Friend (Lord John Russell) was entitled to participate in this
triumph ; for it would be remembered that his Noble Friend
voted with him when he made a motion, last year, for re-
ducing the duty on wool, while Hen. Gentlemen on the other
side of the House swelled the majority which defeated his in-
tention. It was not a little remarkable that, on refer-
ring to the list of articles on which there had been a falling off
in the duty, it would be found that there was no materialin-
crease in the consumption. It was still more remarkable that
in the articles upon which no change whatever had been
made, a very considerable increase was observable in the re-
turns of the imports. In the import duties delivered, he found
that with the exception of coffee no increase whatever had
taken place in the articles, the duty on which had been reduced
by the last tariff. In tin there was an increase, and also in
coffee, but in four other articles reduced there was no increase
whatever—that was in camomile, boots and shoes, corks, and
damasks. There was one article, however, in which there had
been considerable increase. He found there were 600 tons of
copper ore raised, he believed, by slave labour.—(Loud
cheers from the Opposition Benches.) When they came to the
other great articles of consumption—those articles with which
the Right Hon. Baronet did not deal—they found a large and
considerable increase. There was a great increase in the im-
portation of oranges, India sugar, molasses, tea, currant?, in
which no reduction had been made in the duties. In raisins

venue. Let that question be discussed on its own grounds, and
let them not be led, step by step, into a position from
which it would be utterly impossible for them to re-
cede. He believed that the course adopted would
leave the financial affairs of this country in an im-
proper state. One of the causes of attacks made
upon the late Government arose out of the posi-
tion of the revenue. Numbers were interested in the public
credit and looked with a jealous eye to the state of the revenue,
and when the present Government came into power they pro-
posed, in order to remedy the evil, the imposition of the in-
come-tax. The revenue was sufficient—the evil was carried,
and a surplus had been obtained. But would they wish it to be
said if, when they had submitted to this burden of three years,
he were again starting on the same course, when the Hon. Gen-
tleman proposed a system which would realise at best a sur-
plus of only 90,0001. Yet such he believed would be the
result of the financial course of the Government. The Right
Hon. Gentleman calculated upon 15,000 tons of foreign clayed
sugar, producing 42,0001., 5,000 tons of foreign muscovado,
producing 116,000/., and 23,000 tons of British clayed pro-
ducing 375,000/. This made up the 43,000 tons upon which
he calculated, and which would increase the consumption far
beyond anything ever known in this country. But upon these
43,000 tons depended no less than 911,000/., of which
amount, if the increased consumption did not take
place, the revenue would of course be deficient.
He would suppose that the increase would be half what had
been calculated ; still there would be a deficiency of half-a-mil-
lion. But even supposing the whole were realised, there was
one source of expenditure which ought not to be overlooked.
Reports had been made by Government Commissioners recom-
mending the construction of harbours of refuge on the south-
eastern coast, and it was estimated that four millions would be
necessary to complete the work. He contended that no delay
ought to take place in commencing those works. It was incum-
bent on the Government to begin within the year, and half-a-
million at least would be required for that purpose.
He considered that the income-tax being continued for a
limited period was a less evil than imposing new taxes. He
did not think that voting for the income-tax on this ground
was acting at all inconsistently with opinions which he had be-
fore expressed. He could only say, with regard to the amend-
ment of the Hon. Alember for Bath, that if the income-tax
were intended to be a permanent measure, the proposition of
the Hon. Gentleman might be worth consideration, but as the
tax was to be for a limited period only, he did not think it was
necessary to make any modification in it.
Colonel CONOLLY said, that judging from the limited
period during which this tax had been in operation he thought
it would be good and sound policy to continue it.—( Loud
laughter.) In the first place the income-tax relieved the
country from the deficit which the Hon. Mcmber for Halifax
had warned the Government from falling into again, and
relieved them from many evils which they had experienced.
The Hon. Member for Halifax appeared very much to bewail
the possibility of having so small a surplus as a million
and a half. He (Colonel Conolly ) certainly preferred this to
a deficit.—( Hear, hear.) The income-tax had been the
means of restoring the stability and the credit of the country.
It had enabled the Minister to reduce the interest on-the public
debt. That was indisputable. He thought that in the position
in which he was placed he was called upon to state why he
thought the income-tax ought to be continued.—(Laughter. )
He considered that it was a benefit to the country from whence
he came.(Loud laughter.) It was a benefit to that country,
for it had relieved the great distress of the landed interest
there.—( Roars of laughter.) It was a positive and distinct
relief, and, up to the present hour, it had 'progressed in
abating the distresses of that country. That was distinctly in
consequence of the restoration of public credit. There were a
great number of landed proprietors in Ireland, friends of his
own, who had been distinctly enabled to relieve their estates.—
( The Hon. Gentleman was here greeted with a roar of laugh-
ter from all parts of the Howe, which completely drowned toe
remainder of the sentence.) Why, did Honourable Gen.
tlemen consider that no advantage ?—( Continued laughter. )
All these advantages had been produced by the very measure
which it was now by Hon. Gentlemen opposite sought to con-
demn. Hon. Gentlemen might laugh, but he could assure
them this was the case. The landed proprietors of Ireland
could now give employment to the labouring poor, for those
landed proprietors could now raise money at four per cent.—
(Great laughter)—whereas formerly they were compelled to
pay six per cent.—( Continued laughter.) The income-tax,
therefore, had relieved them from their embarrassments.—
(The House was here again thrown into convulsions of laugh-
ter.) He considered that the measure was a great blessing,
and was calculated to invigorate industry and promote com-
merce. Railways had now sprung up, together with other
schemes of enterprise, " for capitalists, said the Hon. Gen-
tleman, " have -now a probability of certain remuneration for
their money." (This somewhat novel expression of
the Honourable and Gallant Officer drew forth a
burst of laughter, which was continued for some
time, and renewed again and again at intervals.) It was very
easy for Hon. Members to laugh, but he thought their derision
would cease when they were compelled to listen.—( Hear,
hear, and more laughter.) What had been done during the
present session showed that there was a desire in this country
to conciliate Ireland, and to do everything which was calcu-
lated to increase the prosperity of that country— ( Hear, hear,
from Sir Robert Peelj—and he believed it would go far to
cement the union between the two countries. For these rea
sons he would vote for the proposition of the Right Hon. Gem
tlernan at the head of the Government.

Mr:G. BANKES was not surprised at the light-heartedness
which had been exhibited by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, seeing
that the cause of it was the prosperity of Ireland. He trusted
that that prosperity would go on increasing, and that ere long
a sense of justice iu the people of that country would induce
them to insist upon bearing, equally with this country, the
burden of the income-tax ; for he could assure his Hon. Friend
that there were now in various parts of England depressions as
serious, and distresses as alarming, as those which had been de-
scribed by his Hon. Friend as formerly existing in the sister island.
The income-tax was imposed at a time when the agricultu-
ral interest was in a more flourishing condition. The Noble
Lord, the Member for London, and the Hon. and Learned
Member alluded to, made reference to that interest. They did
not let, it pass without remark, though" his Right Hoo.
Friend at the head of the Government, and the Right Hon.
Gentleman, the Chancellor cf the Exchequer, did not in any
way allude to it. —( Great laughter. ) And he perceived this
with regret, because that such distress existed had been con-
veyed to the Government in plain terms, and they left it to
the Government to apply such remedy as was in their power.
The Hon. and Learned Member for Bath spoke of the pre-
ponderating power of the agricultural interest, though he
thought the Hon. and Learned gentleman had not chosen
the happiest time for such an allusion.—(Laughter.) But,
if such was the fact that they had such influence, permit
him to say he was unable to find any trace of it.
Why, in the present Budget, everything was given
to the commercial and manufacturing interest,
and nothing to the agricultural.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon.
and Learned Member very preperly observed, that the greatest
attention was manifested and paid to Manchester and Giasgow,
in the important reductions which had been made, which he
(Mr. Banks) as an agriculturist (and he believed he spoke the
feelings of the agricultural interest) saw with pleasure--
(Hear, hear.) There was no jealousy of the manufacturing
interest felt by the agriculturists. And, allow him to say,
it was not only since the reductions which had been made that
a preponderating influence had been manifested towards the
mercantile and commercial interest, but in the increase of ex-
penditure the same objects were in view.—( Hear, hear.)
For why was the navy estimate to be increased by upwards
of a million? Why, because in China and the Pacifist there
were found new outlets and new opportnnities for extending
throughout the world that power they happily possessed.
It was to protect their commerce that this million was to
be contributed and the agriculturists paid their share of the
burden cheerfully. —(Cheers.) Was their army to he re-
duced? No. Was that because the army was wanted in the
agrionitural districts? In the county he represented he did
not believe there was a single soldier. The army was re-
quired for the colonies. But did the agricultural interest com-
plain of being called to maintain it?—( Hear, hear.) By no
means. If then it was said they were a powerful and prepon-
derating influence, it could not at least be said they were a sel-
fish one.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, the Member for
London, who alluded to them, did not hold out to them that en-
couragement which they might wish to receive in case they
did not desire to continue their preponderance for the present
Government. The Noble Lord dealt with them more ten-
derly than he did with other interests, and he alluded with
something of triumph to the silk trade. He said that before
the monopoly was removed that trade was subject
to great alternations of prosperity and depression, but at last
the question was settled, but the whole of the silk trade in
London were ruined, and if he did not mistake it was while
the Noble Lerd was in power, that there was a ball at which
the Queen was requested to attend, for the purpose of relieving
the distress of the Spitalfields' weavers. The silk trade con-
sisted of a small number of persons, and they were easily over-
come, but that was not the case with the agricultural interest,
and the ruin of which would include 7-9ths of the people of
this country.—(Oh, oh.) That was his belief. The case of
the silk weavers therefore,'was no encouragement to the agricul-
turists. It was admitted the other night, by the Hon. Member
for Durham, that if they had a free trade, corn would be some-
thing dearer than it was at present; for, in the Channel
Islands, where the trade was free, it was dearer than it was
here, so that they had that advantage from the protection'which
was complained of. With regard to the present vote, as it
seemed to be agreed to on both sides of the House, he had no
choice left but to agree to it, though, looking at the stateof the
agricultural interest, he should be sorry to see a permanent in-
come-tax.—( Hear. )
Mr. WARBURTON said he agreed with the Right Hon.
Member for Halifax that if the duties on articles of consump-
tion were reduced, there would not be any necessity for the
income-tax.—( Hear, hear.) He also agreed with him as to
the inepolicy of a differential duty on sugar in favour of the
West Indies. They were now going to increase that diffe-
rential duty, because every one knew that almost the whole
quantity of sugar from the West Indies came in the state of
Muscovado sugar, hut that which came from the East Indies
was clayed sugar, so that that was a practical increase of the
differential duty of 10s. by 2s. 4d. But he would not have
risen on this occasion but for the allusion which had been made
to what had fallen from him a few nights ago, by the Noble
Lord and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. Now, all he
would say on the present occasion was, that he believed the
prosperity of the country would be greatly increased by a
permanent system of taxation—( Hear, hear)--because
a far greater proportion of the tax, when directly levied, would
come into the public revenue than when it was levied indi-
rectly.—( Hear, hear.) And he thought he saw some symp-
toms of an approach to such:a system, as contradistinguished
from the indirect system, during the present debate ; and if
the former were adopted, he thought it would be wholly to the
advantage of the country, and that the great mass of arti-
sans and small traders would he particularly benefited by it
But then he came to the consideration of in what manner that
system of direct taxation should be carried on ? In condemn-
ing the system of direst taxation, as it was now carried on, he
entirely agreed with the Noble Lord in characterising it as
very unwise.—( Hear, hear.) The present plan of taxation,
as regarded income and property, was to lay on the tax for a
short period ; that was making a short annuity and • long
one subject to the same degree of taxation. Now,
what could be more unjust than that? It was condemnatory
of the tax to lay it on for a short period. Now he would
shortly refer to the substitute that was proposed by the Hon.
Member for Bath. He did not care whether the income was
levied for professional toil or manufacturing toil ; but what he
would say was this, that the system of taxation was unequal
when they levied the same amount of per centage on income
gained by professional toil, as on income derived from land.
Now the substitute the Honourable and Learned Member for
Bath proposed was this—he would take it that they were
about to lay an income-tax on for one year, said the Hon.
Member for Bath.'On the man who had property in land or the
funds, I would lap on a certain per eentage heavier than on the
man who derived his income from manufacturing or profes-
sional toil. Why did he draw these distinctions ? Why it
might be for these reasons, that the person who had an in-
terest in land for the one year, had a reversionary interest after
its expiration. Now, to t„ a person in reversion was
impossible, the plan therefore of the Hon. Member for Bath
was utterly impracticable, and the conclusion that he drew from
that was, that to lay on an income-tax for a short period was
unjust. If they had it at all, they must levy it with justice,
and they could not do so without they made it permanent, and to
do that-the House did not seem to show any disposition. If he
thought there was any chance of the proposition of the Hon.
Member for Rye coming to a vote he would support it, but as
he saw no chance of that, he should offer no opposition to the
present proposition.
Mr. R. PALMER thought that, looking at the condition
of the agricultural interest, it was not too much to suppose
that they ;Wald expect that parhething should have appeared

an article of immense consumption, there had been a large in-
crease, notwithstanding the heavy duty imposed on them. The
same increase waa visible in cigars; sponges, ginger, and other
articles. It would be observable that this increase was not
attributable to the reduction of the duty, but on account of the
great prosperity of the country.—(Great cheering from the
Ministerial benches.) Ah, but this prosperity was not in con,
sequence of the small reduction of duty, but it was caused by
circumstances. They had had, for instance, cheap corn. An
increase had been made in the imports to China ;
and really, altogether, this prosperity was attributable
to causes not at all under the control of the
Government. The impost was proposed to be continued, to
enable the Government t• make experiments in taxation ;
quite a different reason to that assigned three years ago, and it
was neeeseasy that they should now form their conclusions upon
past experience. Now, this past experience of the last year
or two, made it evident that the reductions proposed by the
Government were not of a nature to make an important alte-
ration in the revenue of the country. It was necessary that
they shoult satisfy themselves on this point, before they:sanc-
tioned the continuance of this tax, as they would find it would
become a permanency, without their being able to help them-
selves. He was aware that some Honourable Gentlemen
behind him were favourable to its continuance, but he
believed the majority of the House held a contrary opinion.
Now, he wished to go over the Right Honourable Baro-
net's statement. In the first place, in reference to the ex-
penditure: It amounted, last year, to 48,700,000/.; and it
was proposed this year to increase it one million. He con-
curred in the necessity of this increase, for the additional fortifi-
cation of our ports would require a large expenditure.
The navy, as far as he was able to judge, would require
augmentation; and, under these circumstances, he could see
no reason why the increase should not take place. The Right
Hen. Baronet stated the receipts, from ordinary sourees, to be
47,900,0'!0/., and from the income-tax, 9,700,000/., making a
total of 57,600,0001. The total expenditure for next year
would be 49,700,0001., leaving a surplus of 3,400,0001., and
with that snm the Right Hon. Baronet proposed to Ideal. He
entirely concurred in the statement of the Right Hon. Baronet,
that they ought to leave the consideration of the China money
out of the qaestion altogether.—( Hear, hear.) The Right
Honourable Baronet, therefore, very properly omitted it.
The Right Hon. Gentleman, with a surplus of 3,400,000/.,
proposed a reduction of duties to the amount of 3,310,0001.,
thus leaving himself a surplus of 90,0001. Now, the items
upon which the Right Hon. Gentleman proposed an alteration
might be divided into two classes. Upon one class he reduced
the whole of the duty ; and, so far as that was concerned,
there was a total loss. This class included glass, the smaller
articles in the tariff, coal, mid the auction duty. With respect
to the latter duty, he had not heard any strong
argument in favour of its reduction. He regretted that
his Right Hon. Friend the late Chancellor of the Exchequer
was not in his place, for if he were he believed that it would
be found that the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had
rather gratuitously assumed that he would approve of the
selection of the auction duty as a fit item for reduction. He
should not say anything in opposition to the proposal with
respect to coals, unless it were that he could not
reconcile the wisdom of taking „off the duty new,
with the reasons alleged for imposing it two
years ago. upon these articles there would be a diminution
of revenue amounting to two millions, and the Right Hon.
Gentleman had not given them the least notion as to how he
expected that that deficiency would be made up. He had as-
sumed an increase of 400,000/. upon the Excise, but he (Mr.
C. Wood) did not see the smallest ground for such an assump-
tion. Again, what right had they to expect a great increase
in the receipts from the Customs? He hoped that the
existing prosperity would continue and even increase,
but there was no probability that it would do so to a sufficient
extent. He would not now argue the whole question of the
sugar duties—he would not repeat the arguments against the
distinction made between slave-grown and free-grown sugar,
but would deal with the question solely as one of revenue. He
did not, however, understand the 70,000 tons of British clayed
'Agar which the Right Hon. Baronet expected to receive.
Great difference of opinion had been expressed by great au-
thorities in reference to that subject. If the 70,000 tons were
East India sugar, then it might be urged that the duty on West
and East India sugar having been equalised, and on the faith
of that equalisation capital having been sent out to India, large
manufactories established, and preparations made for car-
rying on an extensive trade with this country, the
parties who were engaged in such speculations
had a right to complain of the conduct of the Government.—
( Hear hear.) On the other hand, if it were true that the East
India Ssgar would come in, not as white clayed sugar, hut as
something else, then he anticipated that the benefit to the re-
venue gas scattered to the winds. They were driven to the
necessity either of admitting that hardships were inflicted on the
East India speculators, or that there would be a loss of revenue

to the amount of 160,0001.—(Hear, hear.) It was quite clear
that at present the difference of duty upon British colonial sugar
was about 40 per cent.; and he believed that if the proposition
of Ithe Government were carried out, it would not be less
than 100 per cent, The Right Hun. Gentleman stated that
the highest quantity hitherto imp )rted for home consumption
was 207,000 tons, and it would be found that 17i pounds per
head was the greatest consumption which had ever been known

of late years- in this country. -Taking the population at
18,000,000, 210,000 tons would appear to be the maximum
amount consumed. The two statements very nearly agreed.
Now the Right Hon. Gentleman calculated on an increase of
43,000 tons beyond that amount; and if that increase
were not.realised, the Right Hon. Gentleman would lose tone-
fifth of the income which remained from that source. He an-
ticipated that the increase was one which could not possibly be
obtained within the year. He contended, then, that neither
from the' xcise nor from the. Customs was there the slightest
reason to expect such an increase in. the :revenue as would
enable Parliament to take off the inceme-tax at the end of
three years. He had not the slightest doubt that if the sugar
duties were dealt with upon different principles, the income
derived from that source might be much: increased. They
had not as yet derived the full benefit which might be secured
from that source. He believed that if the Customs' duties
generally were dealt with in a:proper manner, the income-tax
might be taken off at the expiration of three years ; but if that
were not the case, there was no hope of obtaining such a result,
and Hon. Gentlemen opposite might rely upon it that they
would have to pay the income-tax all their lives. The
result of the present system. was to obtain only the
minimum of the revenue. If. the House of Com-
mons did not interfere to . prevent the continuance of
this system of indirect taxation, there was no alternative, but.
direct taxation. No other means would exist of paying the
public creditor except the direct payment of the income-tax.
It would be impossible without such a- resource to make the
revenue equal to the expenditure of the country. It was im-
possible to deal with the income-tax without combining with
it other questions ; and he wished Hon. Gentlemen to be
warned in time as to the consequences of the system which
lion. Gentlemen had adopted and were now pursuing. Let
the question be fully and fairly discussed . whether .or not the
incamatai Was to be ocavidind. the ptrmiaeat mix of re.

. _.....
in thi :Budget in their behalf, especially when the large sue- the distress which prevailed in many parts of the country. said that he would not occupy the House many minutes.—
plus'. the Government had in hand was considered. He re- The Hon.
member for womersetshire had stated, and stated ( Hear, hear)—but he could nut after the speech of the Right
gr ett ed very much:that it:appearednot to be, in the power of the truly, that he (Sir Robert Neu had been touched at the dis- Hon. Baronet avoid expressing his disappointment. After the
G eve rnment to relax some portion of that taxation that would tresses mentioned by members of the agricultural deputation statement of his Right lion. Friend near him, as to the ge-
relie re them. He hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet would which waited upon him.—( Laughter.) Yes, he had been neral financial condition of the country, and after the state-
not, 'be mistaken in supposing that his measures would do good, touched with the statement made by members of the deputa- ment of the Right Hon. Baronet himself, he could not but
not. only for the agricultural but the manufacturing inte- tion. His Hon. Friend (Mr. Palmer) said he did not express express his disappointment that the Right Hon. Baronet h
res ti ; ; he thought, however. from what he had seen, that any sympathy with the sufferings of the agriculturists. But, not answered the statement of his Right Hon. Friend 'in the
thes greatest disappointment was felt with respect on a previous evening, he had stated most explicitly his belief whole course of his speech.—( Opposition cheers. ) He (Lord
to tine course pursued by the Right Hon. Baronet on Friday that in some parts of the Country severe agricultural distress Hosvick) would ask what, according to the Right Hon. Baronet's
last. The House was now called upon to renew the income- prevailed. But he thought this distress was in a great degree own fieures, incorrect as he thought they were, what was the
tax for three years, and according to the statements of the local, and in a great degree attributable to the influence of the state of affairs ? His Right Hon. Friend had shown what tlamt
Ri; ;1 it Hon. Gentleman he hoped that at the expiration of that seasons: In „we parts of England, during the early part of was upon the figures of the Right Hon. Baronet. It was thin.
per is el he would be enabled to give it up. He (111 r. Palmer) last summer, the drought was very great, and the hay and that although they were renewing ;the income-tax for three•
tru st ed that the Right Honourable Baronet's hopes would be turnip crops had suffered to a very great extent, but yet he years, and that their getting rid of that tax was a prospect
reanesed, and that he would find himself correct in that respect. could not say that this distress was universal, for in the no:th further „d further removed, like the visible horizon on a large
Th e income-tax as a permanent one would be an intolerable evil, of England, in Scotland, „d in Ireland, the harvest was rather retiring to the same distance from the vision the more
Wis din the discussion of the income-tax took place in 1842, he abundant. He wished it was in his power to provide any plain,
expect to approach it—( lau h)—for it was now inti
rec ollected what he said on that occasion, and that was, that effectual remedy for the distress which prevailed ; but the youae that it yet be continued for five years instead of
thc sit who derived their income from the funds or real pro- House must know it was very difficult to provide a three. might Notwithstanding this, there would still be a surplus in
per t' f, had a greater stake in the country than those who de- remedy for local depression, particularly when that the next year of only 90,000/;—(Hear, hear.) At present the
rive !el it from professions or manufactures, and that therefore depression was the result of unfavourable seasons. Right Hon. Baronet had a surplus of 3,400
the. r ought to pay a greater rate a duty. He considered the He had heard it stated that he had no sympathy with the and out of that surplus he at once disposed of 31e•Ci°13L,---;
inc, sine.tax, as it was now levied, most unjust. He thought, sufferings of the agricultural classes. Now, he begged to re- ( Hear. ) He (Lord H. ) would ask was a surplus of fetn""`"-nn
hoc rover, if the proposition of the Honourable Member for mind his lion. and Learned Friend that in his address to that sufficient to calculate upon for the emergencies of this cowl,' •
Be' de were carried into operation, it would have the House at the opening of the session, he did express his belief ___( Hear. ) The ye
rwhich had passed was one of a great
effe et of excluding those who obtained their in- that very serious distress did prevail amongst the agricultural harvest and unusual prosperity ; and was it advisable to run the
cost ices from professions or manufactures from the classes.—( Hear, hear.) But that distress last year was par- ,000 e, eso deal with,
balance of the expenditure for the next year so close and fine?
ope ration of the tax altogether, and that was never intended. tial, and principally owing to a great drought. The hay hat-
--( Hear. If they did so, they would run a great risk of a.
He thought that this must be the case, for, unless he was this- vest in some districts had been a failure, but that was positive deficiency. Not only that, but the Right Hon. Baro-
tak ell, if these words were left out of the resolution, the par- confined to certain districts. It had not been felt net. on the most favourable showing, expected only a surplus of
ties :assessed under schedule D would be exempted from the in Scotland or in Ireland. From the former coon- 90,000/. Small as that balance was, it was entirely problema-
ope ration of the tax. He agreed, however, that those parties try there had been no complaints of the harvest ; tical, and depended entirely upon the raising of a large addi-
oug .E,t to be charged in a ratio somewhat different from the and in the latter the crops had been very abundant. But if tional sum upon sugar.—( Hear, hear.) He believed that no
hog Wers of real property. He could not vote fora proposition the crops had failed in those countries, he doubted if he could one gentleman, on one side of the house or the other,
which would exclude them from the assessment of the tax be called on to provide a remedy against such an occurrence.— would venture to say that such a surplus would be rea-
alt oe tether.
M r. M. GIBSON said, from what had fallen:from the Hon.
( Hear, hear.) He sincerely wished he could suggest some lised. The Right Honourable Baronet calculated it upon no
mode of relief for local distresses in agricultural districts.--
Al, !E lber who last sat down, and from the Hon. Member for
(Hear, hear.) But it would be very difficult, if not impossible less than one.fifth of the whole consumption, and upon no less
Di arsetshire, in reference to the alleged neglect of the egri- to do so. One suggestion had been offered to him as a remedy
eu Itural interest, he must say, in the language of the Right --namely, that the malt-tax should be repealed. Now he did ha 1 sumi t
itehar one
I f thereinil li owne,
rtehaenryecdei receipt of i
nwthmmehn
twi
na stehnetreceiptentirely
r 00-f
that sum, there would be no surplus but a deficiency. When
Ben . Secretary of State for the Home Department, with re- believe there were certain taxes that did press heavily upon they consented to the continuance of the income-tax, was it a
speot to Ireland, that " concession had been carried to its certain agricultural localities ; but with regard to the satisfactor state of things, that they should have a positive
lien-lost limits."—(" Hear," and laughter.) It would be highly malt-tax, he would say, he did not think it was deficiency yinstead of a surplus ?—( Hear, hear. )He for one
satisfactory if the Hon. Gentleman and his friends would point such a one as that the repeal of it would afford thought it most unsatisfactory.—( Hear, hear.) lie like his
out the particular grievances of which they complained. The the relief suggested.—( Hear, hear.) He (Sir R. Peel) Right Hon. Friend objected to the continuance of the tax, but,
urn- versal remark which ho had heard made was, that the agri- was opposed to the repeal of this tax in the year 1835 for the like him, he did Not see how it was to be dispensed with.
cultural interest enjoyed great exemptions from taxation, and same reason, namely, that such a step would not give general They were willing to vote for it as a tend
in distributing the national burdens, particular care had relief to the agricultural classes.—(Hear.) Hear.) It would perhaps votary measure. But they thought that in so
be ea taken to throw the largest amount of them on the tom- have given relief to one class of persons, sons, namely, the brewers voting for it, the country was entitled to such an arrangement
m serial and manufacturing community, and leaving, in many —(Laughter)--hut general relief it certainly would not give. as to give a well-founded hope that at the expiration of three
ire ,leortant items of taxation, the agricultural interest untouched. —(Hear, hear.) Nothing could he mo.e able than the manner
Bat he would not dwell on this subject, as the question imme- in which his Hon. and Learned Friend had made his state- years they would be able to get rid of it.—(Hear, hear. )
di ately before them was the income-tax. lie felt a little diffl- ment ; but he (Sir R. Peel) did not think his Hon. Friend
'rhere were two description of taxes which were certain to
give great relief without loss to the revenue—he meant,. first,
cu ity as to the course he should take on the preposition of the had succeeded in showing that the malt-tax was one which bore the protecting duties.—( Hear, hear.) Now, what was a pro-
liH .onourable Member for Bath. Nor could he go with the with peculiar pressure upon the agricultural districts.--( Hear.) testing duty e—( Cheers. ) It was a duty which levied mach
Hionourable Member for Kendal, though he agreed with him Neither could his
on. Friend say that the income-tax pressed
money from the people which never went into the Treasury.—
that when a man got rid of his income he got rid of his heavily upon the agriculturists, for this reason, that it was not (Cheers.) For instance, the duty on sugar.—( Hear, hear.)'
Treasury.--
in come-tax also.—(Laughter.) There could be no doubt paid by any one engaged in agriculture who had a less income
of 'that, and that he supposed was what his Hon. Friend meant. than 3001. a-year.—( Hear, hear.) But again he would say weight Sugar could be obtained from Brazil at 12s. or 14s a hundred
--(Laughter.) If a man could be supposed to be immortal, that he admitted that local taxes did press heavily upon certain of an equal quality to colonial sugar, and the people of
this country were compelled to use colonial sugar. They were
I,nd to have enjoyed his income all his life, he would also have portions of the community ; hut it would be very difficult, if not
paid the income-tax in perpetuity. But the more fortunate impossible, for the Government to interfere with it.—( Hear. )
gory, and
the money which ought to go into the Trea-
mi an who got rid of his income in three or four years, would He would say that he did think her Majesty's Government hadand as the Honourable and ;Learned Member for
Bath himself said, part went into the pockets of the
no t have that cause of complaint, as he would only have paid acted judiciously in defraying the expenses of criminal pro- West Indian, and part was absolutely wasted.—( Hear, hear. )
his income-tax for three or four years. But he (Mr. M. Gib- secutions in some in3tances out of the Consolidated There were other duties which might be repealed with ad-
son ) could not look on the matter in Chia light, It appeared to Fund; but it would be very imprudent if they inter- vantage for financial purposes. He meant those duties which
bin 1 that there was a wide difference between an income made
roperty. feted with those taxes which were levied for the purpose of were
too high, and which encouraged smuggling, and the re-
by professional and mercantile exertions and real
p making and repairing roads and bridges.—( Hear, hear.) For
Bert still he was not disposed to agree that the trading comma- it was very important that such taxes should be under the duction of which would cause an increased consumption and an
improved revenue. The public would gain and the treasury
nine' ought to be exempt from paying the income- control and management of the people of those localities who would not suffer. If they were to put the duty upon sugar
in. He did not think that offices and trades ought had to pay thetu.—(Hear.) This, however, he would say, u ,en a fair and reasonable footing, and get rid of the distine-
nnt to pay some amount of income-tax on their re- that it was his firm conviction, that if that House supported tilon between slave-grown sugar and free-labour sugar, he he-
ti erns; but the most reasonable course would be, if some plan the measures he had proposed, the ultimate relief that would
c, surd be devised to effect it, to capitalise income. He believed result to the community at large would be found to be more lieved that in a financial view the revenue would gain. But
he would o further, and say that when they made any reduc-
tl that had been done in former times. He was informed by his really beneficial than if he had repealed all local taxes, tion on sugar they ought to take the opportunity of equalising
Won. Friend the Member for Montrose that it was done in and had paid them out of the Consolidated Fund. the duties wherever the sugar came from. Instead of loosing
the property-tax of 1692, and he referred to the statute-book _.( Hear, hear, and cheers.) If his Hon. Friend was of 3 500,000/, as was proposed no, and which was wantonly throw n
to End if there could be any powibility of such an enactment, opinion that it would be expedient to repeal the malt-tax, he away, the revenue would gain. The protecting duty on cheese and
and he found his Hon. Friend was correct. He found there certainly must be embued with a sympathy for a peculiar butter, and other articles, might be abolished with advan-
th at, in trade and manufactures, the capital employed was class.—( Laughter. ) But the repeal altogether of the duty on tage. There were other duties of extravagant rates, and great
vedue.d. Here the duty was computed on the interest which glass and on raw cotton would be found, eventually, to be cost in collection, such as the duty on tobacco, which ought to
would be received on such capital. Thus, if a man's goods, most beneficial to the agricultural classes.—( Hear. ) Indeed have been considered on this occasion..—(Hear, hear.) The
or mill, or machinery, was valued at 1001., the interest of the he could not conceive a class who would be more benefited last mentioned duty was exorhitant and was productive of in
capital was computed at five per cent., and the person paid on by these two measures than the agricultural labourers. When finite smuggling. The Right Hon. Baronet would have done
an income of 5/. Now, in 1692, te Government was in the heavy duty should be removed from that material made of great benefit to the country if he had dealt on tan p of
great want of money, and unwilling to remit any portion cotton-wool, which was generally worn by the labouring agri- common sense—that is, of free trade.—(Cheers and a laugh. )
of trlxation. At that time there was actually a tax on births culturists, they would then be enabled to purchase their clothes
mart iages and deaths, on widowers and bachelors ; yet even at a low rate, and surely that would be a boon. Then space of three years, he would, be able to make a surplus
then it was not thought necessary to put the same tax on in- with respect to glass, surely when the duty upon an article so And if he did not do so, how could he expect that, in the short
sufficient to dispense with the income-tax ?—(Hear, hear. )
come as was imposed on real property, Now, if that was done necessary to the comfort of all classes should be reduced from But he did not object to the vote the Chairman held in his
before, why could it nut be done again ? He thought it would Is. to 3d. or 4d., was it not clear that the landlord, theeenant, hand. He only took that opportunity of saying he did most
be a very reasonable proposition to move for a Select Com- the peasant, and the labourer would derive benefit from it ?
rnittee to inquire whether some amount, and, if any, what (Hear, hear. ) With respect to the proposed reduction in the the income-tax was to be accompanied. The people of this
strongly protest against the measures by which the renewal of
amount ought to be placed on trades, professions, and offices, auction duties, he begged that the House would not take a country were going to be burdened with a most oppressive tax,
and also to inquire whether some less vexatious and inquisi- hasty view of that, until they had the proposition fully before and they had a right to expect that it should be accompanied
tonal mode of laying it on professions might not be suggested? them.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord opposite had
He thought that met the whole case. Disapproving as he did taunted him, in respect to this tax, with repealing a that at the expiration of three years there would be a probabi-
by measures which would hold out a reasonable expectation
of imposing the same amount on income as on property, he tax which nobody had objected to. But he hoped the lity of their being released from it.—(Cheers.)
should support the proposition of the Hon. Member for Bath, Noble Lord would read the opinions of Sir Henry Parnell Sir JOHN TYRRELL assured the House that at that late
but he should have preferred letting the present resolution and the Chairman of the Stamps and Taxes Department, upon period of the evening he would detain them but for a very few
pass, and when the Bill was in Committee, the Hon. and this subject. He (Sir R. Peel) would move this evening for minutes. It seemed to be the general consent that this was to
Learned Member might have taken the opportunity of pro- certain returns in reference to the fees paid at certain auction he the final and closing debate as far as the agricultural interest
posing by way of amendment some practical plan like that he sales, and then the Noble Lord would see if it would not be a
had alluded to.
material benefit to that branch of commerce to have it proceed was
sennrasonable claim upon the attention of the
thoughternhede
had;ande, as a humble representative of that body,
Mr. MILES said he had not on a former occasion objected in future unclogged by any tax.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble House. He must say that, notwithstanding the able speech of
to the income-tax, because he felt that unless it was imposed Lord quarrelled with him (Sir R. Peel), because the army and the Right lion. Baronet that night, and the three gents'
could could- not possibly be ally reduction: of taxation, that navy estimates were so high, but he hoped to be able to satisfy Sp could benefit the country ; nor could any great reduction be the House and the Noble Lord that those esti- Hon. Baronet taken a most able and comprehensive view °fever),
made unless it was kept on for some time longer. If the income- mates were not larger than the present necessities eech of the previous night, in which not only had the Right
interest in existence, except that great interest of whniscth he
tax gave additional vigour to the industry of the country, and of those branches of the public service demanded.—(
mtheu say,i
at the same time enabled them to relieve some of the direct However, upon this subject he would not dwell, as it would be that he participated in the opinion of those who g
burdens on agriculture, he believed it would be a blessing— very ungrateful in him to quarrel with one whose support he that that interest had been hardly dealt with.
_lt was some
Hear.)
(Laughter)—aye, a perfect blessing—(Great laughter)—if it understood he was to have in his proposal for a renewal of the was an extremely humble representative. Still, be
what ominous that the 14th of February—viz., St. Valentine's
was imposed only for a limited time.—( Laughter.) If it income-tax for a further limit; and, therefore, he would say Day—(naughtery_was a most unfortunate day for the
was proposed to make it permanent, he for one would no more upon that subject.—(Laughter.) When the Noble agricultural interest, because, when the Right Hon. Baronet
say, No ! He did think that the Right Honourable Lord had first said he should oppose that measure, he (Sir R. on the 14th of February, 1834, was paying his addresses
Baronet had introduced this measure with the best Peel) should confess he was most agreeably surprised at hear- to that interest ho said—(Continued laughter)—and the lan-
intentions, but he must say he had not considered all the in- ing the Noble Lord say, at a subsequent period, that he would guage that he used upon that occasion would not, he was
terests connected with the question. He found commerce and vote for the continuance of it— ( Laughter)—and he begged to sure, be tedious to the House..—(Hear.) At any rate it
manufactures both flourishing, at least as compared with the assure the Noble Lord that, great as was his surprise at would be intelligible to the country, and would.
two or three years past ; but he found agriculture in a de- hearing this announcement, it was not greater than the plea. let them know what they were to expect from
pressed state, and yet there was no attempt indirectly to re- sure he now felt at having the honour of his Lordship's support any future Minister. It would., show, too, on what grounds
niece agriculture at all. He was not one of those to stand up —( Renewed laughter)—and let him add the hope that nothing the agricultural interest had been led to entertain those hopes
in that House and ask the Right Hon. Baronet to take off the he had said that evening would have the effeeteof shaking the which he regretted to say had been blasted entertainer
her Majesty's
malt-tax, for, in the first place, his surplus would not allow it; Noble Lord's resolution.—(Continued laughter.) Perhaps, Government who, had not felt it their duty to show their feeling
and, in the next place, he did not wish that the agriculturists after all, if the Noble Lord and his colleagues were sitting upon for the agricultural interest of the country in the shape of their
should monopolise the whole of the reduction that could be those benches—( Pointing behind him amid much laughter)— financial interest. He held in his hand a sufficient proof to
made. But when the Right Hon. Baronet was asking for the his Lordship would find that, no matter from what source de- justify the asurculturists in their expectations, and he hoped
continuance of a tax which amounted to 3,400,000 t., he did rived, the addition of the 5,200,000/. of the income-tax a very it would receive the best attention of Hon. Gentlemen oppo-
think that agriculture should be considered as well as comfortable thing—(Loud laughter)—and would gravely site. The Right. Hon. Baronet was a very difficult bird to lay
manufactures and commerce. He thought, considering the declare that that tax was for the public benefit, and ought salt upon his tail--( Laughter)—he could not expect those.
party who immediately supported the Right Hon. Baronet, to be continued for a further limit.—(Loud laughter. 1
e Hon. Members would think over the obtuseness of any agri-
and the small remission which had been made in direct Ma- Certainly they might have a discussion in that Committee, cultural member whose hand was confined to the plough
tion, a great benefit might have been conferred on agriculture, when the Hon. Member for Kendal brought forward his mo- and whose conversation was of oxen. But still he did think
and on the nation in general, by diminishing the county rates. tion—( Laughter)—when the Hon. Member for Bath brought that the Right Hon. Baronet had used the agriculturists
Great good would also be done by placing them under a better forward his motion—(Laughter)—or when his Hon. Friend with extreme hardship after taking the cheers and confidence of
system of management. Agriculture was greatly depressed, the Member for Somerset brought forward his motion.—( Con- that interest at Cambridge. It was glaring, not only from the
and agriculture was not relieved ; but he must say this, that tinued laughter.) He certainly thought that the House had language of the Right Hon. Baronet, but from the fact that a
he gave credit to the Right Hon. Baronet for such remissions seen enough from the preliminary debate to come to a right Noble Lord was translated to the other side, for no other
of taxation as those on raw materials, on cotton, and on glass. conclusion upon the subject. Then, wiih respect to funded services
But he did think that the Right Hon. Baronet would also property, it was said that it was a great injustice to tax it, as tur erval in than those which he he had rendered to the agneul-
terest.
have turned an attentive ear to the remonstrances addressed to the country had entered into an engagement with regard to it
Several How. Mements—What Noble Lord?
him, he hoped in a proper form and a proper spirit—not by that it should not be taxed ; and when Lord Sidmouth attempted Sir JOHN TYRRELL alluded to Lord Ashburton. He
Noble Lords or Members of that House, but by,farmers, know- to introduce such a measure in 1803, Mr. Pitt got up and said would take the liberty of reading one or two short ex-
ing and practically exercising the trade of agriculture. When that it would be a violation of the public faith to allow funds raised tenets, expressing, as they did, what that body had a right to
they stated their depression to him it could not be but all on a distinct engagement that they should be free from all he Right Hon. Baronet had objected that no meant
be T
the past feelings of the Right Honourable Baronet must claims, to be subject in the same manner as other property to bad been suggested for relieving this interest, but they had relied
be touched.—(Laughter.) They have nothing but their the burdens of the country. He found it necessary, therefore, upon his devising some measures for this purpose. He did not
representations, and the voices of their own Members in that to draw a distinction between permanent and temporary in- say that any direct remission of taxes would have such an effect,
House, and he had hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet would comes and the property entitled to claim exemption. But but still he thought some commiseration ought to have been
have been touched by their statements. But he was sorry to the opening up of that subject would induce a discussion expressed for the sufferings of the agricultural body. He
say that their hopes had been dashed from them. Though which he was anxious then to avoid. But he could not resist quoted from a debate which took place on the 14th of February.
hey contributed to the property-tax no less than 2,400,000/n saying that in the mode of testing the exemption in such a case, 1834, on the subject of the Budget, brought forward by Lord
outt of an amount of 4,900,0901., yet no one single tax had the circumstances attending the scrutiny would be just as Althorp. On that occasion the Right Hon. Baronet had
been touched from which they derived any immediate benefit. stringent and as inquisitorial as any that had taken place under made use of the following expression—" It was admitted that
The whole remission was given only to manufactures and the operation
of schedule D. They would have to go into there was the sum of 1,200,000/., which might be appropriated
Commerce; by that agriculture would no doubt' be examinations for the purpose of determining the nature of
to the reduction of taxation. It would be difficult to show how
indirectly benefited, for he had always maintained that the property on which the duties were to be levied, and as
that could be employed se as to give relief to the agriculturists.joool.
no interest could be benefited without producing he had already said, a new inquisitorial tribunal would be but if it could be shown that relief could be given, the ,
an effect on all. But the only time the Right established, much more onerous than that which had been He'could
ought undoubtedly to be appropriated for that purpose. h Honourable Bareuet the other night mentioned the agri- complained of ; and he would just ask the House if, from the say that relief ought not to be given at tthtebonetxpcon.se otfo the
interest was when ho announced the remission of the very nature of the tax, it could be otherwise ? He very much public credit, but if it could be given w .
..i
cultural
' injury
Right
But they were not asking him, as landlords, doubted, in the case of such taxes as glass and cotton, whether public credit he should most certainly advise it. The
auction duty. .
of taxation,as he believed it was the land- the sum remitted could be said to be abstracted from the per- Hon. Baronet concluded by expressing this opinion—," He
for any reduction ,
this . .
lords alone who would benefit by remission, because when manent interest of the country, because the remission of such hopedthe Noble Lordwould keep his eyes open to the opinions
agricu ' ltural produce was sold there was no tax uon it. It taxes gave an
impulse to the creative powers of their trades expressed in his Majesty's speech with regard to the agricul-
was for the tenants he spoke; and fronttheletters
received, he could assure the Right Hon. Baronet there was a they might escape that tax by not consuming the articles ; but
not allow the session to terminate without giving
general gloom in the counties around the metropolis, who of in respect to the articles reduced—let them say cotton and effect to them." After language of that kind they
course had had an opportunity of reading his
_powerful speech glass—they were articles of manufacture of which they were had a right to expect that something would be done for
the other night. He could assure the Right Hon. Gentleman a component part, and by the increase of labour in which, the them. They relied upon his wisdom, his acuteness, and his
that the greatest despair prevailed in these counties. They,had workman would be enabled to buy absolutely necessary articles ingenuity, and they expected that before that time some relief
looked to him to protect their rights and now their distresses as wearing apparel, cheaper than before, thus amply compen. would have been afforded. Many causes had been assigned
were passed over without vouchsafing a single farthing of sating for the general pressure of the income-tax on the corn- for the agricultural distress, but he believed is the prevailing
relief after imposing nth them a tax of upwards of 2,000,0001. inanity. What was it that he would propose afterwards ? Why, opinion amongst agriculturists that the distress, whether
All he could say was at agreeing as he generally (lid with that a person having 5,0001. a year should contribute founded in mistake or not, was attributable to the course
much that was said on both sides of the House—(Great about 140/. towards the maintenance of the credit of measures which had been introduced into that Houses
laughter)—he yet certainly could not sit down with that kind of the country, and he would ask them that day, not merely by the Right Honourable Baronet, tending as they had
of spirit which would tamely submit to everything a Minister to increase the expenditure, but to make an experiment, and done to depreciate the value of agricultural
.produce.
chose to dictate,--( Hear, hear. ) Even if he stood alone he if that should not succeed—if the country should not derive any The language of Lord Ashburton, also, on the occasion when
would at a future period give the House and those county mem- immediate benefit from it, they might afterwards reconsider corn was proposed to be introduced from the Channel islands,
hers who had been returned hy their consti- their present determination. He (Sir R. Peel) was asked by was worthy of note. The Hon. Member then read an extract
tuents for asserting certain principles which he the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Devonport (Sir from a speech by Lord Ashburton, deprecating the introduction
hoped and trusted.hbey would carry out—he would ►give them G. Grey), if he could give any assurance that the income-tax of so much corn from Canada, the greater part of which, he
at a future period the opportunity of stating whether in this would expire in three years? He answered to that, as he did said, came, no doubt, from the United States. He did not.
great remission of taxation the agricultural interest was or was on the other night, that he calculated that the taxes removed mean to argue that any conclusive opinion
was there ex—
not to be benefited. Before he sat down he merely wished to would increase the consumption of other articles; but he was pressed; but if the agricultural interest were under the im-
p osing the in- free to say then, :in experiments of that kind, three pression that they were suffering fromantdhaatneaeurs ,
should be axe
come-tax again he should give to the tenant-farmer a right of years was rather a limited period—rather shortlf a reason why great disappoin
rtherah. stmsteantted b thegagricultural inte-
appeal. At present they were taxed on half the amount of experiment, and he would own that he would d
for himself pressed, and great grievance
their rent, but had no appeal against the charge, whether they have extended it to five years. He had good round enter- measures ofythe rest, in consequence of the . . . gRi ht Hon. Ban
made any profit or not. He therefore wished them to have tainine a rational expectation that at the end of three years he ronet. Now, he had . no hesitation in saying, also, that he.
had been hardly dealt with by
that right of appeal allowed them. Agreeing on the whole would be at liberty to discontinue the income-tax. He told the thought the agricultural interest
with the principle of a property-tax, he would sit down, hoping Right Hon. Gentleman that his ground was this. The u-
POP the Noble Lord the
that this measure would be greatly and generally beneficial, lation of the country was greatly on the increase, and the con- often had a bone to pick with the Noble Lord on this subject.
the Noble Lord wassupported and surrounded,
yet at the same time expressing his belief that in bringing it sequent consumption of articles paying duty would be greater. Those by whom
habit ofsaying that
forward the agricultural interest had been perfectly overlooked. The population of the country was on the increase. They had were in the
..the
hen
agricultural
interest
accused that
Mr. V. SMITH thought the agricultural Members ought a vast amount of surplus capital, and by the application was predominant, and agriculturists had even _ been _
d the Hon.
to take a straightforward and decided course, and should 'not of that capital to various branches of industry their manufac- night—. God knows how fruitless?" excl i
the Right Hon. follow at the heels of any Minister. He believed the agricultural tweeswordd increase ; they should have an increased demand for Member—with having great interest with
go the Noble Lord
Ba-
condition was one of great distress, but they should have voted labour, and the demand for labour would increase the consumpe ronet.—( Great laughter. ) A few years arve the agricultural
for his Hon. Friend when he brought forward a motion for in- tion of the country. They would find that the trade of last himself said that he thought it right to
Lordg shook his head ;
• onto the burdens which peculia
rly affected agri- year had greatly advanced, if they looked at the declared value interest a predominance. The Noble
(L d laughter)... he
culture. He admitted that there were some bur- of 1844 as compared with the declared value of 1843. In 1843 but, after a diligent search Loud
though his me..
dens which peculiarly affected agriculture, in the shape the declared value of the exports was . 44,812,000/. ;in 1844 could assure the Noble Lord,
the be • erfect, there were several He_
of local taxation, but Hon. Members opposite were the declared value was 50,650,000n,being an increase over mory might imp
all silent regarding them, except the Hon. Gentleman who had declared value of 1843 of 6,838,000/. in the course of the year. neurable Gentlemen on
both sides of the House who
although having made so many on
just sat down. Yet a most valuable paper had laid for two With a surplus capital applied to the internal improvement had heard the declaration,
that his memory should fait
years on the table of that House, descriptive of the extent to of the country, he thought it a rational prospect the subject it was not
Onsurprisingbringing up the report on the address,
which local taxation was carried on. He would not give to that at the end of the three years there would him.—(naugtl4l;r.)
-the Noble Lord said :—" Sir, at the times
agriculturists the same answer as they usually received when be such an increase of revenue that the House might in the year 1
Bill passed, I stated my belief that it mug
they complained of their burdens,—to cultivate the land better, be safely asked not to conti 'nue the income-tax for a when the Reform
predominance to the landed interest ;and al—
reply
he thought they had very great reason to longer period. The Right Honour a ble Gentleman thenecessarily give a
it
may be deemed that such predominance has beera
the same that they could not] cultivate the land without Member for Halifax might not have formed opinion though unduly given, I still think that a predominance its
We were now about to saddle ourselves with a per- that he did, but he begged the Right Hon. Gentleman to con-.
capital.
somewhatour of that interest tends to the stability of the general instin
t tax and it would be idle in him to rail against sider that if they should have a falling off in the sugar duties
manent proper y- ,
fens of the country." The Noble Lord had shown by his
it, for under the circumstances of the case he feared it was of the next year, they had a surplus revenue to make up for the tu 1
but too necessary. The Hon. Member for Kendal had given deficit. Those were the grounds on whichade his language this session that the agricultural interest had nothing
h e
m many to expect at his hands.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Ba—
reasons for the continuation of the income-tax, which he con- calculation. They were about to take them off
manufacturing ronet (Sir R. Peel) had stated that he was touched with the
fessed were to him wholly unintelligible. The Hon. Member of the raw materials which pressed on the
admitted, with the representations made to him by the deputation from the agri—
for Donegal had given reasons for its continuance, which were interest of the country; and though he titiitoena
some
part of the culturists. As there was no effect, it must have been A
perfectly intelligible, because he would not have to pay it.— Noble Lord, that there might betha loss
the Noble Lord's political very light touch ; yet he had no doubt that when a
( Hear, hear.) The prosperity and peace of Ireland revenue, still he could not agree syla
follow that a reduction of dissolution took place, that great and important interest would
had been adverted to ia the speech from the throne, economy, for it did not necessaroi
fythe revenue. He must say re-appear in the shape of advertisements and addresses to con..
and had been since adverted to in language of taxation would cause a redutionoo
this ; point were most extra. stituents.—( Laughter.) An Hon. Member below him (Mr.:
triumph by Hon. Members opposite ; and if such were the case, the opinions of the Noble Lord
se that a reduction of duty would Miles) had signified his intention of testing the sincerity of
he saw no reason why the income-tax should not be extended ordinary. He shoultdbestoupp
:factures of the country ; and this those who professed sympathy with the agricultural interest, by
to Ireland.—(Mr. Shed here gave marks of dissent which create an increase icarease in
the demand for labour. Surely the bringing forward a motion on behalf of that great expiring inn
caused general laughter in the House. )—He thought the Hon. would lead to an in
Baronet had, with his usual adroitness, barely alluded to the computation of a loss of revenue on certain articles could be well serest.—(Laughter.) It would then be seen whether the agrie
as,therefore,goodreason to hope that, by reducing culturists were to have no share in the taxation of the country.
450 articles in the tariff upon which duties were reduced or borne. ThetrteLton
they would enable the manufacturers to He could only say, that if no other Hon. Member should do so.
abolished ; but the House should recollect, that from these 450 the duty
with other nations ; and that competitekn' would tom- he intended to give notice of a motion to extend the operation
articles the revenue lost 320,000/.—( Hear, hear.) He was comp
• etetemanifold for that which would be lost -to the revenue of the property-tax to Ireland. He thought at any rate that
of opinion that the Right lion. Gentleman should have, some pensbae
repeal of the duty.—( Hear, hear.) It might have been he would have the support of the Chancellor of the Exchequer
days prior to his statement, laid upon the table of theintended by
osstible, as he stated on Friday, to avoid
the continuance of the in such a motion. In fact that Right Hon. Gentleman hat
House a list of those articles which he
from p
income-tax. But ho did not say one word in favour of the himself some years ago advocated a similar proposition. The
to affect by the proposed measure. He could not refrain
constituencies of continuance beyond the three years which he had proposed: Hon. Gentleman here quoted an extract from a speech of Mr.
saying, that considering how many of the
abolition of He was far from saying that they ought to make it a per- Goulburn, in which that Right Hon. Gentleman advocated the
Hon. Members were affected by this diminution orrre._
( Hear, manent tax during peace. But he hoped that during peace they policy of extending the income-tax to Ireland as well as En..
duty, the House had been rather taken by surp
would not trouble would not break its efficiency as an instrument in land. He (Sir John Tyrrell) thought it behoved_ that
hear.) At this late hour of the night he
ht
time of war, b making too man exemptions from its appli- House to extend the tax. to Ireland. The R
the House with an) further observations.
Gentleman that to- cation.—(Hear.) atpresent much less burdensome Honourable Gentleman the Member for Dungarvon
Sir R. PEEL assured the Right Hon.
It was
11
table of the House •
think might thatthere machinery by which to cull the
on the
morrow or next day he would lay_
hle of the articles now included that
be true with reference to the year 1816 ; but
they would find any very urgent demands for its repeal in tax. 'This might
of the poor-laws in Ireland,
papers which would spee
ifVhe w o
it was proposed to remove the duty. the course of the next three years. He was convinced that, now they had ot the machinery
He thought it was unjust
in the tariff, and on vvhic
could be no difficulty.
lly that a remission of duty would
take looking to the effect of the taxes repealed, and the danger to and there
He had stated genera
place
' of manufacture. Surely the Right which our manufactures were exposed by the competition of that such a man as
Lord Hertford should be allowed to extract the raw materials
in
Hon. Gentleman did not expect him to go through the whole rival nations, there were the moat urgent reasons for the 30,000/. or 40,0091. a year to spend in Paris or Naples, with.
450 articles ? He thought by so doing he would have wearied repeal of the taxes on glass and cotton. In repealing those out paying any tax whatever.
the House, and the mention of many of the articles would taxes it was his firm conviction that they would
confer great The Marquis of GRANBY, who spoke from beneath one 4
rather have provoked laughter. He was sorry to hear from his benefit upon all classes of her Majesty's subjects.--( Hear.) the side-galleries, .and who was very indistinctly heard, ,wit
Hon. Friend that he bad considered him insensible to Lord HOWICK (who rose amidst cries of " Chair, chair"), ere und -tood to express a hope that the Right Hon. Baronet a