The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-17 00:00:00

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had given all the reparation in his peer. Ho could not. how.
ever, sit down without remarking that it would be very
well if the Hon. and Learned Member did nut use such severe
language, and if the House would, by a strong intimation, show
that it was determined to discountenance all such attacks.—
( Hear, hear.) It caused irritation and excitement not only
in that House but out of doors, and the repetition of such lan-
guage was by no means calculated to raise the character
of that House in the opinien of the public. A pledge bad
been given to the House of withdrawing the offensive words,
but he considered the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath
would not be justified in withdrawing his motion.
Lord HOWICK agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet that
the matter should not be withdrawn, in consequence of the full
and ample apology tendered by the Hon. Member for Sligo. If
the matter were withdrawn it would appear on their minutes that
a Member of Parliament was justified in sending a hostile mes-
sage to another Member for expressions employed in that
House on public business. He was not prepared to consent to
the withdrawal of the motion. He considered that the motion
hating been confirmed, the next course would be to form a
second resolution, to the effect, that after the full and ample
apology of the Hon. Member for Sligo, the House would not
take any further notice of the matter.
Lord PALMERSTON submitted that, in his opinion, a
resolution pointing out a single individual would necessarily
imply some opinion on the part of the House that blame and
censure had been incurred by that particular person Team it in
that resolution. It appeared to him that the apology which
had been made to the House by the Hon. Member for Sligo
was a sufficient amendment on his part to restrain the House
from any further proceedings. It further appeared to him
that the objections of his Noble Friend might be fully answered
by permitting the proposed resolution to lie withdrawn, and to
have, as a substitute, a general resolution, to the effect
that it was a breach of the Parliamentary privileges of the
House, fog any Member to take notice by a hostile message of
what had pissed from any Member in th't House. He quite
agreed with other Hun. Members that the Hon. Member for
liath deserved their thanks for the course he had pursued in
bringing the matter before the House. The effect of such
challenges gas to strike a blow at the constitutional functions
of Par Lament. There were many Hon. Members wlio if similarly
treated, might have been driven to the destruction of them-
selves and to the injury of their families. He thought that the
House ought not to try the Hon. Member (Mr, Roebuck) with
respect to his speech the other night. He ( Lord Palmerston)
wished to show the hue courage of his Hon. Friend in coming
forward in the way in which he did. There was many an
Hon. Member in that House whose courage had not been tried,
who had not been put in a situation like his Hon. Friend, and
who could not come forward and throw himself on the House
to vindicate not himself alone, but the privileges of the Home.
Ile thought the remarks of the Hon. Baronet misplaced,
and truly inapplicable on this occasion. He wished to know
whether this was a breach of privilege, and if it
were, what should be the way of dealing with it. The Hon.
Member, in the commencement of his address, made every re-
paration it was possible for map to do. It was not a question
in which his Hon. Friend (Mr. Roebuck) was alone eon-
,
cerned, it was a question of the privilege of the House. If his
Hen. Friend was sorry he ought to have been set right on
Friday, and they then ought to have tried him for his impru-
dence, and for the manner in which he expressed his opinion
on that subject. Had he not been held up in a way in which
the characters of others had not been ; and was the Hon.
Baronet to lay down a rule as to how he was to express his
feelings in that House. If they were to conduct themselves
peaceably and quietly they should above all have freedom of
opinion, and every man should be allowed to express his feeling
of the injury her eceived, and if he acted wrong he (Lord Pal-
merston) hoped that they would call him to order. They were
not now to try the Hon. Member for Bath, when the question
was as to the conduct of another Hon. Gentleman. He thought
that his Hon. Friend deserved the thanks of every gentleman
in the House.
Sir R. INGLIS thanked his Hon. Friend for the Christian
manner in which he seconded the motion. He observed a
strong and concurrent opinion on both sides of the House, that,
if it should be the pleasure of this House that the motion be
withdrawn, the Honourable Member on the other side of the
House should express his regret. He hoped he would not be
misunderstood—namely, that he should apologise to the House,
and to the Hon. and Learned:Member for Bath, and express his
regret that the letter in question had been sent. Less than that
would not satisfy the House, or secure to any Member of the
House, as well as to the Hon. Member for Bath that privilege,
which he (Sir R. highs) regarded the most essential of all their
privileges—namely, the free expression of opinion is that
House.—( Hear.) He entreated of the House to attend to the
observation of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Member for
Devenport, and he hoped that if Hon. Members could not be
held responsible for language used in the debates of that
House, neither should they use those irritating arid offensive
epithets —( Hear, hear)—which gave unnecessary pain. With-
out taking upon himself the task of acquitting the Ho.
nourable and Learned Member, he thought that the Ho-
nourable and Learned Gentleman would, on reflection, feel
that observations were made by him, not only on Friday night,
but in other debates and on other occasions, upon the conduct of
Irish Members, which the necessity of the case did not
demand or justify. He did not mean to say that the conduct
of the Irish Members was justifiable, on the contrary he was
disposed to agree in the general view that they were not acting
properly in absenting themselves from Parliament. He did
hope that whilst on the one hand the House would interfere
effectually to prevent such pernicious conduct, Hon. Members
would feel the propriety of acting in a manner so as not to give
unnecessary offence, and with a view to maintain the character
of that House in the opinion of the public.—( Hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER then read the minute which bad been
made on the books of the House containing the offensive ex-
pressions before stated, and the apology of the Hon. Member
for Sligo already mentioned.
Sir W. SOMERVILLE expressed a hope that, after the full
and ample apology which had been mas!e by his Honourable
Friend, the House would permit him to pass without further
censure. During the time that he ( Sir W. Somerville) had
been in the House he had never known his Hon. Friend to
have been gully of a single offensive or unparliamentary expres-
sion.—( Hear, heae.)
Mr. ROEBUCK said, he had set. out with stating that it
was not upon his own account he brought this matter for-
ward, but in order to vindicate the privileges of that House
—( Hear, hear)—and therefore, when the House declared that
its privileges had been satisfied, it was far from his wish to
interfere, or throw any impediment in the way of the matter
being brought to a close. But he should be doing an injustice
to himself if he had admitted in any degree that charge which
had been made against him by the Right Hon. Gentleman,
the Member for Devonport. He had expressed an opinion.
that the conduct of certain Irish Members was most mis-
' chievous to the interests of the country—be then used that
language, which accurately described his own feelings and
opinions. He had done no more—he had a right to do
that—he repeated it—what he said was accurately true. His
language had been gentle and guarded—(Laughter)—yes
gentle and guarded as compared with the language of others who spoke of that House and its Members individually else-
where.—( Hear, hear.) As, however, the privileges of the
House had been vindicated, he would say no more on the
matter. That was all he asked.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN said the Hon. Member for Bath
had used insulting language to him, and treated him with
" perfect contempt."—( Order, order.)
The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member for Limerick could
not refer to language used in former debates at which he was not
present.

Mr. ROEBUCK said he had been accused of using lan-
guage unfit to be heard in the House, and he thought the Hon.
Gentleman ought to be called upon to retract those expres-
sions.--( Cries of " No, no," and " Hear, hear," and great
confusion, in the midst of which),
Mr. TURNER rose, but not one word the Hon. Member
said reached us.
Lord J. MANNERS was understood to express a hope that
the House would not call upon the Hon. Member for
Limerick to retract the language he had used.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN rose, evidently labouring under
great excitement, and •aid that which had been 'conceded to
the Hon and Learned Member for Bath had been denied to
him. He had used most offensive language towards him, and
had not retracted a single offensive expression which he had
used towards him in the debate on Friday night. Was that
so or not ?
The Hon. Member sat down, expecting an answer from the
Hon. and Learned Member for Bath, but the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, assuming a particularly derisive look, turned his
back to the Hon. Member, and did not stand up. There-
upon

Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN said the position in which I stand
before the country is this, that I have been insulted, and the
Hon. and Learned Member for Bath, whose offensive ex-
pressions still remain unretracted and unexplained—( Order) .
The SPEAKER—If the Hon. and Learned Member for
Bath had made use of language of an unparliamentary cha-
racter, it would have been my duty to call him lo order.--.
( Hear, hear.) It did not appear to me that the language
used by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman in the debate on
iyiem unparliamentary,ber: andon th tahteornenfoarsei
occasion,
id
calledot callthe
hFirmidatoy
order.night wa
Nso
Hon.
Hon. and Learned Gentleman to order, or in any way signified
that he was using language of an unparliamentary character,—
( Hear, hear.) I cannot, therefore, admit that either then, or
on the present occasion, the Hon. Member for Bath used un-
parsliiarm H. en
language.—( Hear, hear.)
tWary. BARRON—When language, said to be of an
offensive character to Hon. Members of this Meuse, was used
by the Hon. Member for Cork ( Mr. O'Connell)—
Just at this moment Mr. O'Connell himself entered the
House, amid loud cheering and waving of hats from Hon.
Members on the Opposition side of the House, and derisive
laughter from the Ministerial benches. Mr. Brotherton, Al-
derman Humphryes, Mr. Hawes, Mr. Roche, and others came
over and shook hands with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman,
as soon as he took his seat. There was great excitement for a
moment, or rather the excitement which previously existed
was increased. The Hon. and Learned Member seemed in
excellent health and spirits, and laughed heartily, apparently
at the coincidence of his name being mentioned just as he en-.
tered. Soon after Mr. S. O'Brien went over to the Hon.
Member, who shook his hand warmly.
Sir H. BARRON went on to say that when Mr. O'Con.
nell had used offensive language to Members of that House,
Hon. Gentlemen opposite took a very different course from
that which they now pursued. The Hon. Member for the
University of Oxford told the Hon. and Learned Member for
Cork, on that occasion, that he should be cautious of using lan-
guage of an offensive character towards Members of that
House ; but the Hon. Gentleman had not given that caution to
the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath, which would be quite
as well placed; for it was notorious that the Right Hon. and
Learned Gentleman was in the constant habit of using offen-
negHedtuvo
aeAnngii.oeye
np
occasionn,
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bnayrl
sive and dictatorial language towards Hon. 'Members.—(Order.)
The SPEAKER interfered, upon vrloicb
others,oßv, f
faheStonhi
er,
used
offence.
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himself aaol
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under the privileges of that House should not use language
calculated to wound the feelings of Hon. Members._( Hear.)
Sir R. PEEL again interposed. He
thought the privileges
of the House had been vindicated, and
regretted that the Noble
Lord (Lord Howick) was resolved upon pressing his motion.
The Right Hon. Baronet instanced the case of Mr. T. Hope,.*
now the Lord Justice Clerk, who had in similar
acted a manner
as the Hon. Member fur Sligo, and
whose apology was accepte
by the House.
After a few words from Lord SANDON and Sir V. BLA K
the resolution expressive of the approbation of the House a
the course pursued by the Hon. and Learned Member for
Bath, and condemnatory of that taken by the Hon. Member
for Sligo, and also the amendment expressive of the satisfaction
of the House at the apology of the Hon. Member for Sligo,
were put and carried.
The subject then dropped.
Mr. OSBORNE asked whether the Right Hon. Baronet th
Secretary of State for the Home Department would bring o
the Academical Education question, in case the hour a
which the Irish Banking question concluded was late.
Sir J. GRAHAM said he would not pledge himself to the
House, buto would not certainly bring up the report on the
Academical Education question at a very late hour.
ANNUITY TO SIR
_FI. POT !INGER .

. - -
Sir R. PEEL said that he believed that the unanimous
feeling of the public, the appreciation of the conduct, character,
and public services of Sir Henry Pottinger were such, that
independent of the personal question of merits which were
universally acknowledged, his claims upon the gratitude of
his country were equally well appreciated. He proposed that
thegreat services which Sir Henry Pottinger had rendered to