The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-01 00:00:00

his company to benefi t the town, by bringing their line close
to it. In all probability it would run by Andover, near the
workhouse. Every one knew where that was. It had
been alleged that his company had come into a part of the
country into which they had no right to enter. This he
denied. The South-Western Company had made their
election when they framed their line. After reaching
Basingstoke they deviated from the western course, and
went south to Southampton. They had no right, there-
fore, to claim the country between Basingstoke and Ex-
eter as theirs. But he had still a stronger case for the
London, Salisbury, and Yeovil Company. He could
inform the meeting that his company, the Yeovil
Company, had put- forward no plan, had made no
movement, until it bad been explicitly understood
that the South-Western Company did not intend to
construct a line in that direction.—(Cheers.) A
communication with the influential parties in the South-
Western Company had taken place, certainly not viith an
idea of binding either, as if by written agreement, but
merely with a view to ascertain whether the
South-Western Company had any intention of
making such a line. The answer given was
distinct—that they. had no such intention. It was
believed that their hands were tied. The country
was, therefore, open to an independent company.
His company had no intention, at first, of stopping at
Yeovil; but having, in the course of their formation,
ascertained that a party in Exeter were forming acompany
to construct a line to Yeovil, a communication with that.
party took place. The London, Salisbury, and Yeovil Com-
pany having received from them an assurance that their
intentions to proceed were sincere, desisted from pressing
the extended scheme. If, however, the Exeter
and Yeovil Company should falter, there was plenty
of time to
.make his company a lA.indon, Salisbury,
and. Exeter Company," and that would most certainly
be done.—(Cheers.) They knew the feelings of the
inhabitants in the district and the wants of the
country, and they would not disappoint them. Their
capital was sure ; reserving, as they would do, a few
shares for those persons along the line who hail not. yet
applied for them. He would wish that neither the surveys
which the South-Western Company were makinz, nor the
attempts of the Great Western Company to monopolize,
those districts, would prevent them from going on, after
the late declaration of the Right Hon. the Premier
in the House of Commons. As they had adequate means,
they would proceed in their work, and, by taking the
project in hand at this early part of the year, it would
allow them full time for accoraplishing the work they
had in hand.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CnoluniE, in reply to an inquiry as to how long
it would take to reach Exeter by the proposed line
and the narrow guage, said, not longer, in proportion
to the distance, than the wide guage. They could
run quite as fast on the narrow as on the broad guage.
On the Brighton line they had been for some time
rur.ning a fast train the whole distance, fifty-one miles
being completed in an hour and a quarter. It was quite
a mistake to suppose that the narrow guage was not
equally as safe as the wide guage for that route.
Mr. LOCKE said the South-Western Company had
never any intention of giving up this line, as they had
long since determined on constructing a line to Salisbury
via Andover. _ _ .

horse-power to their 20,000 horse-power.—(Hear, hear. )
Regarding the allusions which had been made to old and
imperfectly constructed ships, it should be remembered
that a long period had elapsed since their construc-
tion, but yet not one of those ships bad been t'roken up,
and only one of them was made a receiving-ship. It was
not at all extraordinary that changes should be made
in the construction of ships, now that some of the old
models had, by the progress of science and experience,
become obsolete ; in fact, the great cause of alteration
was, the increase of science.—(Hear, hear.) How-
ever, Hon. Members should not run away e ith the ides
that all the ships in the last war were bad ones; or of an
inferior construction ; it should be recollected that
during the war, the Inconstant, a frigate of small
power, compelled a French man-of-war, which was clear-
ing the harbour of Malta, to lower the topsails and
yards, and actually engaged with her until one of our
line-of-battle ships came up. Yet this French man of-
war was considered the ee plus ultra of French genius.
The Hon. and Gallant Officer mentioned other instances
where British ships of much inferior size and force were
victorious over foreign vessels. It was true enough, as
observed by the Hon. Member for Montrose, that Eng-
land was the only nation which, at the close of the war,
had not a scientific Board fur naval affairs. A school of
naval architecture had been subsequently established,
which bred many excellent seamen ; but he thought the
present system was as well calcu!ated to encourage
genius as any other. It was an extraordinary fact,
that, notwithstanding all that had been done to-
wards uniformity---to secure a principle which might
be gc nerally applied to ship-building—the Admi-
ralty had been unsuccessful ; and the meet ex-
cellent steam-vessels had been constructed on
totally different principles. As an instance, he might
quoted the Espiegle and the Flying Fish—both admir-
able vessels, but both constructed in different modes.
Several plans bad been proposed, amongst others the
parabolic curve, by Lord Dundonald, but he would not
anticipate the results until they all had a fair trial. The
llon. and Gallant Officer had alluded to alterations
made in the construction of steam-vessels recently built.
The Surveyor of the Nary, one of the most accomplished
sailors in the navy, had, certainly, directed some alte-
rations, and he thought he should be allowed to carry
them out without interruption. He hoped the House "
would allow the estimates to be gone through, after the
explanation he had given.
Captain BERKELEY was glad to hear the lion. and
Gallant Officer state our superiority in point of steam-
vessels over our neighbours. He did not think the pam-
phlet of the Prince de Joinville was written in a hos-
tile spirit, but it kindled a wholesome spirit of improve-
ment in the British public as ree arded our navy, which
was of the utmost importance. He thought the increase
sought for was necessary, and he should support it cor-
dially. The best way to preserve the peace of Europe
was to maintain and fortify our maritime power. The
Prince de Joinville had suggested a steam navy as the
best mode of bringing the contending Powers into a hand
and hand conflict. If such should be the case, he be-
lieved that, taking former occurrences for our guide, we
should be, in ninety-nine encounters out of a hundred,
successful. Then it was in the power of the British
Government to fit out a fleet of steam-vessels, from her
mercantile superiority, capable, not only of contend-
ing with France, but with the whole world. If
they were to refer to Glasgow, to Liverpool, and the
other great ports of our commercial intercourse, and
which formed* the entrepots of the navy of the kingdom,
they would immediately see the immense power which
the country possessed in the way of a steam navy, and
how available they would be in the ability to form a
steam navy for the purposes of war. If the Committee
would allow him to suggest, he would say that the best
way to form a navy of this kind would be to establish
some power, by which they would be enabled to form a
steam navy by which this country would be enabled
to meet the power of the whole of the world. They
had little to do but to place pivot-guns on the decks
or these steamers to render them most effective vessels of
war ; and they might estimate, from the return of the
mercantile navy, the number of effective vessels of war
which they could command, and by them they would
be enabled to calculate their prowess for effective war-
fare. This power might, it was true, be indefinitely
extended ; and if the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secre-
tary for the Admiralty were anxious that it should be
extended, he for one was not anxious to restrict his
powers nor those of the Government. The question, as
it appeared to him, was as to how far the Government
were entitled to this vote of credit on the strength of
their past performances. For his part, he conceived
that all that was necessary was to invest the Govern-
ment with a power to make arrangements with the
proprietors of these vessels as they stood at present, any
at a moment send them to sea. Now he had a plan to
suggest, and he did so with considerable diffidence, but
yet, as the object was the public service, he did not con-
ceive that any trespass that he might make on the patience
of the House would be too great to obliterate the im-
portance of the public service, and he was exceedingly
desirous that if the powers which the Government pos-
sessed were used to enlarge the effect of this mercantile
power, there would at once be a steam navy that
would be able to compete with that of all the
world. What ho would beg to suggest would be,
that the navy should be drilled upon the custom
of the marines, and what he wished was, that the navy
should be drilled according to the fashion of the marines
and in the same divisions as the marines were classed.
If they did this, the navy would be able to act as
marines, and the whole force would become one of effec-
tive artillery. His object was to couvert the navy into
as valuable artillery as the navy had proved theniselves
to be (luring the tune of war.
Sir GEORGE COCKBURN said, it should be recol-
lected that all these men were trained.
Captain BERKELEY said that he was aware that
the question which had been raised by the Right Hon.
Baronet, one of the Lords of the Admiralty, was one of
great importance, and he was aware that many of the
marines had been trained under the admirable system of
Sir John Pritchard, at Portsmouth. By that system
the whole of the sailors had become gunners, but it
should be recollected that marines were engaged during
a long series of years, that they were occupied during
the whole of their engagement in a continual series
of exercises. The marines were engaged during
a period of twenty-one years. Throughout the
whole of that period they had the full opportunity
of rendering themselves effectual ; and he must say that,
while he acknowledged the claims of the navy, he MUSS
at the same time acknowledge that the marines were
entitled to equal respect. He believed that the designs
of Sir W. Symonds had done very great good, to the
naval service ; but he must, at the same these, say
that
it was necessary also to consider the feelings of the men
who were engaged in that service, and what their claims
would be in the event of war. Under these circum-
stances, he trusted that the Members of that House
would well consider what they were about, before they
voted those immense sums for the use of the navy.
Captain ROUS said that he fully felt the effect of the
observations 'of the Hon. Member for Ripon, and that
he was alive to the great importance of those points
which that ion. Gentleman had introduced. With him
he was inclined to complain of the way in which these
things had been represented to the House. He had
complained that the Eurydice was a donkey frigate, but
he must beg to dissent from this opinion for the fact was
that it was necessary to distinguish between these donkey
frigates, of which the Hon. Gentleman seemed to be so
fond, and others of the same class which were of a much
more weighty order. The fact was that the Eurydice
was of 940 tons burthen, and the general class of frigates
to which he had alluded were not more than 600 tons,
and he thought, therefore, that the opprobrious term of
" donkey frigates" might be obviated by a little altera-
tion in the estimates.
Sir G. COCKBURN explained by stating that
these " donkey" frigates had been built before the im-
provements in naval architecture had been obtained.
Captain ROUS said, to a certain extent, this might be
true,. but the fact was, the Admiralty had been reduced •
to the position of cutting down vessels from their real
grade to that of an inferior one, in order to obtain-the
effective benefit of their qualities ; for instance, a vessel
of 900 tons burden had been reduced to one of 600 ; line-
of-battle ships had been made frigates, and frigates had
been changed into corvettes. lie would adduce this one
instance—that of the "Penelope," which, from a frigate
of first-class character, had been extended into a
steamer.—(Great laughter.) Now he thought such a
sum as 1,273,0001. ought not to be expended without a
full knowledge of the facts which required it being ex-
plained to the House. With respect to line-of battle
ships, he must say that the business was better observed,
but he could not forget—and if he had forgotten, the
observations of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary
the observations
conservation
of ther.
Pitt, navy,
shortly
to the Admiralty would have reminded him—that no
less a sum than 200,000,0001. had been expended since
the
ecoPlleea
He
perfectly
a_ter
teedinththe
the
peace of Amiens —that it was necessaryto
render this
r
country perfectly independent of all foreign
powers in
the way of naval architecture and
1806, he had moved the a • ppointment of a Select Committee
on the state of the dockyards ; and he did not think
that the same retains
Prime Minister s which had been granted to the
in 1806, when the country was in a
state of universal
war, should be refused in 1845, when
the Country was in a state of peace. At the present
moment, we had 306 vessels, including 88 sloops and
other smaller vessels, and el ?f •riga es t . At that time—
the time to which
he referred—there was no less than
1,100 vessels of one sort or other in commission. Of
these, a great number were some of the line, and some
of the lowest class were 50 gun frigates. Now, he held
the surveyor of the navy in the highest esteem. In
1841 to 1844, it would be advisable to give a full
statement of the state of the navy in every class of ve asel,
and he believed the expenditure of 100,0001. would be
little thought of by the country if it were necessary to
put the navy in an effective state ; and to render the
people satisfied that their favourite service was effective
in every portion of its department. For these reasons,
he was exceedingly happy to find that an experimental
squadron was about to be sent to sea ; and he trusted
that if three months were not sufficient that they would
take six to establish the respective qualities of the ships
of the squadron. He had heard the late experimental
squadron had not been able to find a gale of wind, and
that they had sailed with all their canvas set, and that
occasionally double reefed top-sails had been used, when
in fact they ought to have been under royals. He be-
lieved that large ships were the very worst school which
could possibly be used by officers in the navy, and he
was anxious that men who were to be used as effective
officers should have the best possible education. Instead
of the ten " lazy" sail of the line, he would have
twenty, and those ho would snake the best possible
school for young officers; T.:ie had been led to understand
that the Admiral tie which the lion. and Gallant Mom-
boy referred..;iad been sixty years in the navy. Nov be
k"_ ay bins to -- be a man of first-rate education—of high
attainment in his profession, and of
consummate experi-
ence;of that
but still he thought that the experience
Gallant Officer was insufficient bzi prove a case which
was intrinsically bad. He (Captain Rims) was aware of
his serer in the Mediterranean, but still he must
f•P`