The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-16 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 16, 1842

Prisoner—That you certainly did. You drank with me in
the public-house on the left-hand side, where they fill the best
gin out of a decanter.
The LOAD AlAvon—Do you deny having drank with him,
witness ? Witness—l do, my Lord. He is a most false man
to say I did.
Prisoner—l have witnesses to prove that we drank together.
I know these ornamented collar gentleman well, and I can
pr.we that I have often drank with them in Fenchurch-street.
The prisoner, who acted in the rudest manner to the Court,
and the most brutal manner to the poor old woman, was then
remanded.

He (the Marquis of Normanby) considered it also as great
evils the time and manner in which those additions were
made. He should not so much object to the manner now if
the Right Hon. Baronet, at the head of the Home De-
partment would have himself by any intuitive knowledge
made these appointments ; but he would say that it wa:
quite impossible that the Right Hon. Baronet could have
any intuitive knowledge of these persons ; he must
necessarily have derived his information from local par-
tisans, and that was what they complained of.—(Hear,
hear.) With regard to the time of the appointments br
would observe, that in all the discussions which took
place on this subjee, in the year 1836, it was stated as
a great objection to the time, that it was just after
election had taken place ; when there was either great
party triumph or great party discomfiture, and people
were actuated by party feelings.' These objections would
apply to this case, for a general election took place last
year just previous to these appointments. It might be
necessary for the Right Hon. Baronet to make some
addition ; but was there any necessity for the enormous
addition which he thought proper to make ?—(Hear,
hear.) In 1830 the Borough Magistracy amountoi to
six hundred and thirty, and up to September of
last year it remained pretty nearly the same. But
whatever application was made representing to him (the
Marquis of Normanby) that variations had take place,
and that additional Magistates were necessary, he made
such additions as upon inquiry appeared the best accord-
ing to the best of his judgment, although he would ad-
mit that any person filling the office which he had lately
the honour to fill might make mistakes through
misinformation. Such mistakes were not what he now
complained of. What he objected to was, the enormous,
the extraordinary addition of some hundreds.—(Hear.)
Whenever he (Lord Normanby) made appointments 1w
endeavoured to distribute them amongst all classes 01
opinion.—(Hear.) With respect to the town of Hull
itself, he received representations that vacancies had oc-
curred, which it was necessary to fill up; but upon inquiry
he did not think that the number of men was necessary,
it had been at first. represented to him—(Hear, hear)
—and having decided on a smaller number, he
wrote down to five Members of the Town-Council,
requesting them to recommend to him some gentlemen
who were known to entertain opinions different from
those of the majority of the Council. To this be re-
ceived for answer that several of those gentlemen had
been requested to undertake the office of Magistrate of
the borough at the time of the passing of the Municipal
Reform Bill, and they refused to serve. However, after
a time one of those gentlemen did consent to accept the
appointment. He mentioned that as an instance of the
principle upon which he always endeavoured to regulate
those appointments. In the returns before the House
there was a deficiency, which he really thought could
not be justified. There was no return of the number of
Magistrates appointed in the borough of Lancashire.—
(Hear.) He knew it was necessary to apply to two
officers, but then the responsibility of applying to the
office of the County Palatine lay with the Home-office.
From the Ist of January, 1841, the number of new ap-
pointments had been only 58, and of these the greater
number took place on account of vacancies. But from that
to the lst of January, 1842, the number of new appointments
was 364.--(Hear, hear.) And let their Lordships mark the
distinction with which these appointments were attended. In
the whole number of small boroughs which send no Member to
Parliament, no new Magistrates were made in the first in-
stance. But after it was known that there had been no

liberal restitution in other quarters, applications were made
from some of these places, and the Right Hon. Baronet, per-
haps with no unwillingness, gave 41 Magistrates amongst 30.
There were some, however, particularly attended to. For
instance, Hull, where a triumph had been just gained, and the
appointments were, no doubt, intended to reward those gentle-
men for their exertions.—( Hear, hear.) Bath was the next
where a signal detest had been suffered, and when it was
politic to encourage those who lent their services in a nicely
balanced state of parties; in one day 90 Magistrateswere added
in 10 boroughs; nor was it on account of the insignificance of
the non-Parliamentary boroughs, that caused them to be over-
looked, for Buckingham, Grimsb y, and Harwich, all small Parlia-
mentary boroughs, were similarly favoured with Hull and Bath.
In Nottingham, and in Sunderland, where there had been a
striking contest after the general election in October last,
in November an addition of eight Magistrates were made to
the borough. Plymouth, no very considerable place ; Tiverton.
Wallingford, no very considerable place—these were the towns
in which an addition of ninety Magistrates had been made. He
would revert, for a moment, to the case to which he had parti-
cularly alluded—that of Hull. He had felt great anxiety with
respect to the appointments, and he had made twenty-four in
addition ; but since then there had been an addition made, and
now the borough contained no less than one-fifth more than
any other borough in the country. He wished to call the
the attention of the Noble Lord to the convenience that would
be attendant upon applying to some public body to give
information on the subject to the Government.—(Hear. )
The Aragistrates of the borough of Hull complained
that the name of Dr. Alderson, an active partisan, had been
inserted before the names of all the Magistrates in the commis-
sion of the peace. These Magistrates were told that in general
the Magistrates were inserted according to the rank the person
held in society. They accordingly went to Bluemantle.—
( Great laughter)—and he replied that medical distinction
gave no rank. He (the Marquis of ' Normanby) was not
quite sure that Bluemantle was right in that respect.—
(Laughter. )—He should not have adverted to this if there had
not been another Doctor in the case, who was the Mayor, Dr.
Chalmers ; and Dr. Alderson bad been inserted before Dr.
Chalmers. He trusted that, in future, information would be
obtained from some person with respect to these appointments
being made, and that. those persons should not be those who
were prejudiced on one side or the other, and unless they had
recourse to this system, they would constantly do injustice.
He did not think, it
.roulcUsho w good sense to bring in
a Bill for; the purpose of altering the spawn, but if these
appointments were continued to be made in a similar manner to
that to which he had alluded, Borough Magistrates would soon
be held inlthe most sovereign contempt, and be made the means
of political corruption. He did not mean to say that that was
the case in the present instance, and ho hoped to see the remedy
in future applied which he had recommended, and which was
the only one in their, power to apply.
The LORD CHANCELLOR confessed he felt grateful to

the Noble Marquis for having called the attention of their
Lordships to drat. petition, because many observations had
been made from time to time as to the manner in which the
Magistrates had been recently appointed. The responsibility
of those appointments rested with him (the Lord Chancellor),
although, as his Noble Friend had correctly stated, he had
conferred with the Right Hen. Baronet, the Secretary of
State for the Home. Department, as to the manner of filling
up those commissions; and he. (the Lord Chancellor)
was desirous of satisfying their Lordships as to the
propriety !of the course which had been pursued.
He would now refer to the observations made by the Noble
Marquis, and direct their attention to the petition from Hull,
by taking the Corporation of Hull itself, as an instance of the
general spirit in which the Government acted. When the Mu-
nicipal Corporation Bill passed, it was found necessary to re-
model the Magistracy. New Magistrates were appointed in
many places, the borough of Hull amongst others. For this
borough twenty-three Magistrates were appointed. Did those
who made those appointments do so without reference to party
or ParLamentary objects? Out of the twenty-three magistrates
so appointed, four were Conservatives, and nineteen were of
the other colour of politics. He did not mean to say that all
of those were of the same party, but there were nineteen who
might be characterised as Whigs and as Radicals—steady
pro-
portion of them, zealous, warm, active, and eager partisans. Such
supportei sof the Government; all of them, or the greater
was the composition of the magistracy of Hull, up to the time
the present Government same into power. Two of those Ma-
gistrates, whom he had designated Conservative, never acted ;
one resided at a distance, and another was disabled from acting

by, his health. The Magistracy of the borough were therefore
of one colour of politics, warm and eager partisans of the late
Government. if this was the proceeding of the late Govern-
ment, what had been that of their successors ? They added
eight names to those formerly appointed. Those eight were of
respectable character, and of weight and station in the borough
of Hull. Ns) impWation could be:madr against theie appoint-
ments, founded orslthe character of those individuals.,: They
were Conservatives., and,he ould ask their Lordships whether,
considering.the character ofw the bench up to that time, the Gos
vernment were not justified in the course they pursued, and
whether it was not their duty to dilute and soften the spirit of
partitanship that had exist. din that borough ? If any complaint
were to be made it should not come from the Noble Marquis
and his friends.---( Hear, hear.) It ought to be from the Con-
servative party, because, when the Government had the
power to place a majority of Conservatives on the bench, they
had appointed only eight, leaving two to ono against the party
which the Government represented. But why did the Go-
vernment do so? Because it felt it to be its duty, to act with
forbearance, good temper, and moderation, and thus put an
end to that party feeling and those party disputek which should
never be displayed on the bench of the Magistracy, or be
mingled with the administration of justice or the performance
of those ministerial duties that belonged to that class. He
appealed to their Lordships whether they were not justified in
the course they had pursued ; whether it was not the duty of the
Government to appoint Magistrates who would dilate the
party spirit of the borough, and be least offensive to
tha inhabitants of that town ?—( Hear, hear.) His No-
ble Friend said that Government were wrong in having in-
creased the Magistracy of Hull ; but of the 23 appointed, two
had died, two removed to aistant places, and three never quali-
fied, leaving an actual number of 16, to which the Government
added eight, which would only make one more than the origi-
nal number of 23. The Noble Marquis objected to some of the
appointments; but his (the Lord Chancellor's) answer was,
that as the names came in they were arranged in the usual man-
ner in the office by the proper officer, and if one were a doctor
of medicine, and the other a knight, they were arranged only
according to the rank they appeared to have by the returns.
This much he would say for Hull, and now lie would say a few
words, to enable their Lordships and the public to understand
the general conduct of the Government. When they
found in a particular borough an delusion or a
preponderating number of Magistrates of one class, as at Hull,
they added a small number of Conservatives for the purpose he
had stated, but earefullyiabstaining from swamping the exist-
ing Magistracy.—(
Hear, hear.) The Government wished to
show its power, but avoided giving offence, they desired to heal
wounds and remove rievances, and by being moderate them-
selves to encouragemoderation in the opposite party. In no
case do they make a majority of Conservatives,. The Govern•
ment were not without authority in this course. A late Noble
Baron, a Member of that House, who was a high authority,
alluding
and it is the flutyof appointing Magistrates rests with the Lord Chancellor,
to a similar subject, thus spoke—" tl:e responsibility
of that high functionary to recommend
only such persons as he thinks duly qualified to
discharge the duties reposed in them. I do not mean to ques-
tion the motives, or to impugn the conduct of any particular
party, but I think, in common with the mass of the country,
that if men of ono colour of politics only be nominated to these
offices, though justice may not bo corrupted in consequence,
the administration of it would be subject to doubt and sus-
picion."—( Hear, hear.) This he thought was justifiable, because
the Government look to mitigate the preponderance of one
party on the bench. His Noble Friend complained that a
great addition had been made to the Magistracy. In conse-
quence of that statement, it was necessary for him (the Lord
Chaucellor) to call their Lordship'sattention to the circumstan-
ces under whirls the appointments ware made, and he must say
it did appear most extraordinary that the Noble Marquis should
have brought before their Lordship such an allegation. Take
the case of Yarmouth-19 Magistrates had been appointed.
Of these one was a Conservative, and the 18 were violent
political partisans on the other side. That was one instance.
But then his Noble Friend said they consulted the Town
CounciL Take the case of the Borough of Guildfo d. In that
borough there was a very large number of Conservatives ; the
inhabitants were called on to make a return of names; they did
so, and mentioned all Conservatives. What did the Secretary
of State do ? Ho appointed one Conservative and two Ra-
dicals. Was this to go on? Were they (the Ministers) to be
trampled under foot by their opponents ? Take Wigan.
Every appointment in that borough was confined
to Whigs and Radicals. That was another case. Talk
of taking the sense of the Town Council! Look at Ro-
chester, where the Council consisted of half Conservatives
and half Whigs. They sent up names, and the Goverment

appointed six of their own party and no other. Really, for
the Noble Marquis to have the lace to make such charges!—
( A laugh.) Take another ease, Coventry. That borough
had twelve Magistrates. Perhaps they might ask how he knew
who were Conservatives, and who were Whigs aed Radicals ?
He would tell them. Out of these twelve Magistrates, sight
were on the Committee of the Members who supported the
Noble Marquis's party. The four others had no votes for the
county, but three of them voted to the borough for the Whig
Member, and the fourth was a Whig Member himself.
(Hear, hear, and cheers. ) What had they (the Mi-
nisters) done in this borough ? They had been content with
having one-third of the Magistrates Conservatives. Take
another instance, the borough of Leicester. There were ten
Magistrates for Leicester ; nine of them voted at the election
for the friends and supporter: of the Noble Marquis. In Ply-
mouth there were eight Magistrates, two of them were Members
of Parliament, consistent supporters of the Noble Marquis; five
others voted for them at the election, and one was a Conser-
vative. In Bristol the Town Council agreed that twelve names
should be returned by one party, and twelve by the other.
Now, how were they marshalled—were the twenty-four ap-
pointed? No, the twelve Radicals were taken, and only six
of the others. In Manchester the whole of the Magistrates
were Radicals. After this how could the country be
surprised they had attempted to regulate these matters.
Ile was answerable for the manner in which he exercised the
prerogative of the Crown. Every care had been taken in the
appointments; and previous to making them he had com-
municated with the Secretary of State en the subject.
The Marquis of NORMANBY said that the cases to which
the Noble and Learned Lord had referred were precisely the
same as those which were brought before the House in 1830.
With regard to Guildford, he begaed to say that the Noble
and Learned Lord had certainly been misinformed, lor there
was not one Whig Magistrate in the borough. He (the Mar-
quis of Normanby ) had been requested to add others to the
Commission, but he refused to do so, because the number was
complete. He would again repeat that the present Govern-
ment had made most unnecessary additions to the number of
Magistrates. They had added no less than 364 to the Borough
Magistracy since they had been in power.
The Earl of WINCHILSEA said, that he thought the Noble
and Learned Lord was entitled to great praise for the manner
in which be had acted in this matter, and for his endeavours
to put a stop to the disgraceful system of partisanship that
existed under their predecessors. With regard to the borough
of Rochester, he could bear testimony to the disgraceful appoint-
ments which had been made in that borough. He thought that
the Noble Marquis had gained nothing by his motion, but an
exposure of the system of partisanship which prevailed under the
Administration to which he belonged.
Lord COTTENHAM thought it was important to know in
what way his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack had been
influenced in the appointments which he had made. His Noble
and Learned Friend could not have known personally all
those 364 persons.—(Hear.) He could only have chosen them
on the representation of others. Now, according to the old
plan there was a local authority, in the person of the Lord-
Lieutenant of the county, who was acquainted with the lo-
cality, and who knew the character of those whom he recom-
mended.—(" Hear, hear," from the Duke of Wellington. )
There was now in the boroughs also a local authority, which
was consulted by the late Government—the Town Council—
and if that body were not consulted, he should ask what autho-
rity was to be consulted ?—( Hear, hear.) Was the Great
Seal to be affixed to Commissions of the Peace upon
the recommendation of persons whe had access to the
'Lord Chancellor, and were not before the public in any re-
sponsible character ? ( Hear. ) His Noble and Learned
Friend mast have a very extensive knowledge of the boroughs
throughout the kingdom ; still he thought the recommendations
of the Town Council, which was a public and responsible body,
was a much safer source of recommendation than any private
individuals._( Hear.) His Noble Friend, in the charges which
he made against the late Government, had gone back as far as
the year preceding 1836, and he could only find two cases—
Guildford and Bristol. But those cases had been discussed in
Parliament in 11136, and the charges were proved, to the satis-
faction of both Houses, to be entirely without foundation. He
did not see why the same course should not be adopted with
respect to the appointment of Borough Magistrates, as in
County Magistrates. These were appointed upon the recom-
mendation of the Lord-Lieutenant. There was no office in
boroughs certainly, similar to the Lord-Lieutenants in !coun-
ties, but there were parties holding official situations in boroughs
capable of making the recommendation. This might be inconsis-
tent with the ancient institutions, yet his opinion was that the
alteration would have a beneficial effect. He was at a loss to
know to whom t• apply for the information required in these
appointments, but it certainly should not be left to politically
interested parties. He hoped his Learned Friend would state
to their Lordships whether such a system would be adopted, as
had been recommended by his Noble Friend with respect to
obtaining this information (as we understood, but the Noble and
Learned Lord spoke in so low a tone of voice that we frequently
found great difficulty in understanding his points.)
Lord BROUGHAM said, that before his Noble Friend
answered his Noble and Learned Friend who spoke last, he
wished to say a very few words upon this most important con-
versation. He was exceedingly glad that the subject had been
brought before their Lordships, for nothing could be more im-
portant than that which related to the administration of jus•
tice. The principal ground upon which he wished to address
their Lordships was that the Noble Lord who had spoken last
had referred to the appointment of County Magistrates, and
recommended the same course to be adopted with respect to
Borough Magistrates. lie (Lord Brougham) would remind
their Lordships of the course adopted by the Great Seal with
respect to County Magistrates. In order to have a person
of responsibility and of undoubted local knowledge, it had
been the usual course to act upon the recommendation
of the Lord-Lieutenant. The Great Seal was undoubtedly re-
seonsible for the appointment, and was at liberty either to fol-
low or reject the advice of the Lord Lieutenant. Generally
speaking, unless a satisfactory reason was given, that recom-
mendation wes acted upon. It did so happen that when he
(Lord Brougham) held the Great Seal, for the first two years
there was one perpetual list of complaints made to him by va-
rious persons connected with the different parties, that political
influence was used in the recommendations of the different Lord-
s It was said that the Magistrates were all Conser-
vatives, and that not one Liberal Magistrate had been appointed.
He did not think, that during the whole of the four years that
he was in office he was besieged on any subject so much as
this ; for the first two years especially. At the end of that time,
a general election—that which was commonly called the Reform
Parliament—took place. At that time recommendations poured
in upon him from Lords-Lieutenant for the appointment of
County Magistrates. He was eonsequently led to inquire the
reason why the administration of justice should just happen
to require so very ample an addition to the Magis-
tracy. This was in the months of December, 1832.
and January 1833. He did inquire, and he found that those
persons were all well and duly qualified to exercise judicial
functions. In making those inquiries he did not impute
any improper motive to any one, and he was bound to
say that in no one instance did he find either of the persons
unfit for the commission. He was bound to say this to justify
himself and his Noble Friend on the woolsack. He gave the
lists of the different Lords-Lieutenant to the Whig Govern-
ment, requesting them to point out any objections to the
names. He gave the list of recommendations made by the
ruling Members to the Lords-Lieutenant for them to examine
them, and no objections were made. He did not recollect any
one objection being stated save one, and that was because he
was a manufacturer, because the rule was not to appoint a
manufacturer to the commission, as there were frequently dis-
putes between the master and the men respecting wages. He
did not think that there could be any objection on the part of
the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary for t heHome Department,
to adopting a similar course with respect to borough Magistrates.
If a cause could be shown, then eject them ; if not, it was to
talk of an Utopian state of things to believe that party was to
have no effect, and that it was love of discharging the duties
of the office, and that they must be given to those who were
the best fitted to discharge the duties. At the present time
it appeared to him that the spirit of party divided arid split up
the country more than at any former period, not only in
counties and large constituencies, but the most insignificant
communities. It was almost impossible to expect that, in such
a state of things Magistrates would be chosen without re-
ference to political bias. This was to be lamented as unfor-
tunate, and he had wished he could have lived to see the time
when it would not be the case; but he should have been more
surprised if the change in the late Government had taken
place without being followed by a considerable change in the
Borough Magistrates. They had now unknown advisers, con-
cealed nominators of the Magistrates. Why not make the re-
commendation of political friends the constant rule in such
cases? Why not permit the Members for different places to
biggest the names, and show, if they could, some cause of ob-
jection; prove that from their characters and capabilities they
were unfit for the office. He could see no objection
to adopting this course. He by no means intended to
say that they ought always to be bound by the ma.
jority of the Town-councils, and for this reason.
the councils were chosen by the majority of the community
they represented, and his Noble Friend said, generally speak-
ing, it was better to have the Magistrates of the same political
opinion as the majority. If the councils changed, then the
Magistrates underwent a proportionate change. But lie thought
there was another thing which he considered it incumbent on
the Government to consider, and that was the protecting the
minority against the majority. if he was morally certain that
there was the greatest possible disproportion between the two
parties, and that that disproportion could be shown to be so
large as ten to one—if he was satisfied that the proportion of
ten to one was a just expression of the feelings of that place, he
should say, all the more on account of that very disproportion,
all the more because the numerical strength of the minority
was so insignificant, it was the duty of the Government to pro-
tect that minority against that majority, and see that the majo-
rity did not have it all their own way. Ile thought his Noble
Friend was mistaken in stating, that these appointments had
been made principally in the Patliamentary boroughs. He
found, from the return, that there were thirty-three Parlia-
mentary boroughs where no Magistrates had been added; and
in those thirty-three places were some that had been con-
tested, and where additions might have been expected. These
were such places as Leeds, Newcastle-under- Lyne, and another
borough which was very well known—the barough of Sudbury.
In conclusion he hoped his Hon. and Learned Friend would
lay down some general rule which might guide them in their
future appointments.
The Marquis of NORMA_NBY briefly explained, and stated,
that though they (the Ministers) might talk of having acted
the same way as the Opposition, he would beg to remind them
that eight months previous to his (the Marquis of Normanby's)
quitting office, he had only appointed fifty-eight new Magis-
trates, whilst in seven months the present Government had
made no less than 364 new appointments.
After a few words from the Duke of BEAUFORT,
The petition was allowed to be laid upon the table, and their
Lordships adjourned at Half-past Seven.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 15.

The SPEAKER took the Chair pit tho usual hour.

AIUNTZ presented a petition from the Birming-
ham Law Society, praying that Attcrneys, Solicitors,
and Proctors, might be exempted from the income tax.
Mr. YORKE presented a petition from 2,700 persons
residing in York, expressing their gratitude to the
House for upholding the right of petitioning, and pray-
ing that the income tax might not pais into a law.
POOR-LAW.

Mr. HARDY presented a number of petitions from
several townships in the West Riding of Yorkshire,
praying for the repeal of the New Poor-law, and for the
restoration of the Act of Elizabeth.
CORN-LAW S.

Mr. THOR NELY presented a petition from Ormskirk,
in the county of Lancaster, kigned by 1,340 of the inha-
bitants, praying for a tctal repeal of the Corn and Provi-
sion-laws.