The Sun.
London, England, 1842-08-06 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The House met to-day at Twelve o'Clock.
The Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill was read
a third time, and passed.
The Exchequer Bills (9,193,0001) Bill was read a
third time, and passed.
The Slave Trade (Portuguese vessels) Bill was read a
second time, and ordered to he committed on Monday.
NEWFOUNDLAND BILL.
The Order of the Day for bringing up the Report of
this Bill was read, and the Report was,received.
On the motion that the Bill be engrossed,
Mr. B. WALL said he objected to the principle of
the Bill. He objected to the Bill because he had no in-
formation to go upon.—(Laughter.) A Bill of so great
importance as this should be fully understood by every
Member who voted upon it. But when he looked at the
papers before4them, he asked what was the information
they contained ? The Noble Lord gave them some in-
formation, but that was just enough to induce them to
vote with the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.) He should
oppose the Bill in every step, and would be glad to di-
vide against the Noble Lord. He proposed as an amend-
ment that the Bill be engrossed this day three months.
Mr. P. HOWARD seconded the motion.
Mr. IIUME recommended a division, that they might
have an opportunity of expressing their opinions by
their votes. .

Strangers were ordered to withdraw, when there ap-
peared—
For the amendment
Against it
Majority against the amendment
The Bill was then ordered to be engrossed, and the
third reading fixed for Monday at twelve o'clock.
MINES AND COLLIERIES BILL.
On the Order of the Day being read for the considera-
tion of the Lords' amendments to this Bill,

Lord ASHLEY entered into a defence of the Report of
the Commissioners. He believed that that Report had
been most carefully prepared, with the utmost impartia'ity
and the strictest adherence to truth; he was convinced of
this not only by the fact of the high honour and respect-
ability of the Commissioners, but from numerous com-
munications which he had received from the most
influential coal, owners of the kingdom, confirming in
every respect the statements contained in that Report.
It bad been said in another place that his (Lord Ash-
ley's) statement, that the whole trade in the north
was in favour of his Bill—that such a statement was
an exaggeration—was, in fact, a trick and chicane. He
denied that his statement was exaggerated, and in con-
firmation of it read several communications from parties
who were interested in the subject. Though the amend-
ments made by the Lords in the Bill would invalidate
to a great extent the utility of the measure, yet he ac-
cepted those amendments 4_,n account of the great prin-
ciple involved in the Bill. The Noble Lord concluded
by moving the adoption of the amendments.
After a few words from Mr. FORBES,
Lord PALMERSTON said it was with great pain he
observed the amendments made by the House of Lords
in this Bill, because those amendments went to de-
teriorate the spirit of improvement in the legis-
lature of this country evinced in. this Bill, to which
there could be no objection whatever on political
grounds. But under the circumstances stated by the
Noble Lord, he (Lord Ashley) had exercised a sound
discretion in not calling on the House to negative those
amendments. It was quite right, as the Noble Lord had
said, that those amendments, if carried out, would.
nullify the most important provisions of the Bill, but
it was to be hoped that the owners of mines
would counteract the effect of those amendments.
He regretted that the cordial support promised by the
Government had not been given to the Bill. He would
not accuse them of any insincerity, but their reluctance
to object to these amendments proved that there was a
power greater than their own which exercised a sort of
coercion over them. When the gentlemen were in
opposition they were in the habit of taunting
the late Government with giving way to the power of the
other House of Parliament, but it appeared that the pre-
sent Government was subjected to the same kind of

coercion.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the observations of the Noble
Lord rendered it necessary to offer a few remarks in re-
turn, for the sake of his own personal vindication. On
the introduction of the measure nothing could be
more sincere and cordial than the support which he
gave the measure, reserving his judgment as to a
few details, such as the limitation of the hours of work-
ing for boys between ten and thirteen years of age, and
the retrospective effect of the indentures of apprentice-
ship. The Noble Lord had insinuated that his colleagues
in the other House of Parliament had not been disposed
to support the Bill ; be denied the assertion that many
improvements contained in the measure had been ob-
structed by the other House of Parliament. What
were the present enactments of the Bill ? Why, the
employment of boys under • the age of ten years, was
prohibited, there was a limitation of the period of ap-
prenticeship, and the employment of females in mines
was alsoprohibited. All the great principles for which
the Noble Lord had contended stood as they were origin-
ally meant. Ile believed that if the alterations had not
been consented to by the Noble Lord who had the con-
duct of the Bill in the other House, his colleagues in

the other House would not have acquiesced. Having
gone into the details of the amendments the
Right Hon. Baronet proceeded to state that he cer-
tainly did not think the alterations were inconsistent
with the principles of the enactment. He thought
they were fair, reasonable, and just modifications.
With regard to hat the Noble Lord had stated of the co-
ercion exercised over the Government by the other

House of Parliament, he had no reason Co believe Lut
that his colleagues in the other House, possessed
not in a superior, but in an equal degree, the
confidence of that House, as they (the Ministry)
did that of the House of Commons. In the
course of this session the Government had car-
ried through both Houses many extensive and im-
portant measures. They had commenced the session,'
now so near its end, possessing the confidence of Parlia-
ment, and he believed they had not forfeited it at its
close.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord ASHLEY, in explanation, stated, that when the
course was taken in the House which rendered the
changes inevitable, he (Lord Ashley) was asked if he
would consent to them ? His reply was, that he could
not help himself •, and that he was disposed to sacrifice
the children in order to save the women.
Mr. V. SMITH did not think the declaration of cor-
dial support of the Bill, made -by the Government, had
been fulfilled. •
Mr. S. WORTLEY regretted that these amendments
had been made. Still he thought the Noble Lord had
acted judiciously, on the whole, in acceding to them.
Mr. CHARLES BULLER said as the Noble Lord
bad acceded to the amendments, those who warmly
supported the Bill would not dissent from them. But
he must say, that the whole force of the discussion made
the value of the amendments less and less. Till the
Right Honourable Baronet defended them, he was
not aware how utterly worthless they were.—(Hear.)
He was afraid that the House of Lords was rather in-
clined to consider every measure in its relation to landed
property, rather than to humanity; but it had been hoped
that the influence of the Government would have in-
duced the Lords to pass this Bill without amendment.
What trust could they have after hearing the sup-
port given by the Right Honourable Gentleman
( pposite to this Bill, when they heard one member of
the Government in that House say that the Government
was passive, and another most illustrious member of that
Government sneer at the evidence upon which it was
founded? True ths House of Lords had passed the In-
come-tax and the Tariff, although he believed they
would have made the latter infinitely worse if they had
not been prevented from doing so by the rules of the
House. He was afraid also that they would damage the
Bribery Bill, 'notwithstanding the assurance given by
the Right lion. Baronet, that he would support it.-L-(A
voice from the Ministerial side of the House—" The
Bribery Bill has passed.") lie was very glad to hear it
was out of danger.—(Cheers and laughter.)
Sir R. PEEL said it was curious to contrast the fears
A lion. Gentlemen at the beginning of the session with
the fears expressed by them at the present moment. The
House of Lords had during the present session given
their ready assent to the Corn Bill and the Turin; two
measures =king greater changes than any which had
been introduced of late years. Yet all that was of no avail,
for the Hon. Gent. could not calm his fears of a collision
between the two Houses, because the House of Lords had
made some alterations in a Bill for regulating mines and
collieries, which had not been brought in by a Member •
of the Government.—(Cheers from the Opposi-
tion.) He believed that the Bribery Bill wouß
pass the House of Lords without amendment, but
he would not pledge himself that the House of
Lords should adopt all the details of any Bill. The
House of Lords was a deliberative body, and had a
perfect right to make any modifications in the Bill
which they might think proper.—(Cheers.) With re-
gard to sonic of the amendments, lie would admit
that he wrap sorry they had been adopted.—(Hear.)
But with regard to some of them, he thought they
were improvements. For instance, suppose a mall
a (irking in a mine should break his leg, or should be at
the point of death, as the Bill had left the Commons it
would be eontrt.ry to law fez- his wife or daughter to
come into the mine to see him. In many cases, the entrance
to the mine was through an adit, so that persons could walk
into it. Now, it would be rather hard to prohibit a child from
taking its father's dinner to him while working in the
mine. The object of the law should be to distinguish
between young persons going into mines for the purpose
of being employed there, and young persons entering a
mine for other purposes.
[LEFT SITTING.I

Colonel Sir Alexander Anderson, C./3., died last
eek at Edinburgh at an advanced age. fie was (me
the veterans of the Peninsular war, entered the army
1, 1801 ; received decorations for his services at Enda •
z, Salamanca,• Vittoria, Pyrenees, Nivelle, Orthes, and
ouloase ; knighted 1831.