The Sun.
London, England, 1829-04-06 00:00:00

passed in the first year of King Wiliam, and this I take
to be most important. By that Act, Papists were forbid
to carry arms, such a measure being considered necessary
for the safety and security of the Protestants. In the Bill
of Rights there is a clause for the Protestants to carry
anus, but there was no clause for the Roman Catholics
to do so. This was the only passage in the Bill of
nights front which it could be inferred that the Catholics
1% ere not to be admitted to eoinal privileges with the Pie-
-estants. But this Act was repealed by that of I'Ve roui
that Act repealed the law which prevented Cattiolics from
oecess to the throne, though much Ynore danger might
lie apprehended from such eccess then could accrue from
stating their opinions is this House, where they tuld be
replied to by Noble Lords who were opposed to them.
tlear.)—Another Act had also hen repealed which was
yet-eared to by the Noble Duke. By the Act of Cherlet
the Second any !screen taking office was obliged
ee subscribe tin declaration. After their entering upon
office by the Act of William, buwever, it appeared that
!71,is security was not stllowed sufficient, and it was ttcs
iseedingly enacted that they should sign the declaration
prior to entering on office. By the Act of 1781, the Act
of Wiliiees was repealed, and the law was restored to the
same teseition in which it stood under the Act'of C'haties
IL Time, my Lords I have proved that the Noble and
Learned Lord himself, has taken greater liberties with the
great foundations of British freedom--.(Hear, hear)__
than has been takes by his Majesty's Ministers, in intro..
during the present Bill.--(Cheers.)—Under thc act of the
Noble Lord the provisions of the Act of William Were
done away with, and insecurity was given in return. One
word more, toy Lords, before I have done, with respect to
the intentions of the framers cf the Bill of Rights. I
will trouble your Lordships with a short extract from tits
proceedings of this House for the purpose of ehowing the
opinions of the framers of the Bill of Rights when in 1706
they were fanning the Scotch Union. My Lords, upon that
occasion it was moved in this House " that it be an
instruction to this Committee to have a clause inserted in
the Act of Union, to make perpetual the Act of the 25th
Charles 2d, against Popish recusants," By this House
my Lords, that motion was determined in the negative.--
(Loud cheers. )—I now my Lords tome to the Scotch
Act of Union. In that Act a clause was inserted
for the purpose of oecuting the Establishment, It was
framed the same es the other, and it was enacted that
none could be returned to Parliament hut Protestants. But
in other clauses it states, that these shall be in force only
until the Parliament of Great Britain should otherwise
provide. So that the very Act of Union itself proved
that !site perpetuity of those Acts was not contemplated.
My Lords, 1 sin sorry for having taken up so much of your
Lordships' time, but I now come to the only remaining ar-
gument. It has been asked by some if the measure is
calculated to give tranquillity to Ireland ? I only say this.
A Noble Earl had selected grounds, which I believe to be
substantial why it should produce tranquillity, but the
grounds I take are not so high. If your Lordships can
satisfy yourselves that you have done justice to Ireland,
why should you presume or imagine that they
will not be satisfied. If the Roman Catholics of Ire-
land are satisfied with this measure, which I believe
the great body of them will be; and if you have no longer
the Protestants of Ireland divided against each other, you
will have but a few factious individuals to contend with.
You will net have the whole body of the nation
in all but a state of insurrection against you—(Loud
cheers.)—l go far with the Noble Lord who said that
there still are individuals who will attempt to excite
disaffection ; but I believe that the great body of the
Catholics will be tranquillized and gratified by this
measure. The Protestants as well as Catholics have
violated the law, though I freely admit, and I know
it from a long knowledge of them, that there is not in
civilised Europe a more industrious honest, or respect-
able class than the Protestants, and I am satisfied that they
also will be thankful when they are relieved from a nominal
superiority in which there is no advantage.—(Cheers.)—
My Lords, should this be the case, I believe, and I may
say that I know, that the Noble Lord himself will be most
happy that this measure which he now opposes has been
carried into effect. The Noble Lord then sat down amidst
loud cheers from all parts of the House.
Lord Farnham, and several other Noble Peers, rose
amidst loud cries of " Question, question."
Lord FARNHAM with great difficulty, at last ob-
tained a hearing, and said —I can assure your Lordships,
I should not have occupied your time at this late hour,
had it been possible for rue to have obtained a hearing
at an earlier moment. Ido think this, my Lords, a ques-
tion so important that every individual at all in-
terested in the state of Ireland ought not to give his vote
upon the subject without stating the grounds on whish
he gave it.—(Hear, hear.).—l will therefore, my Lords,
proceed_ at once to the state of Ireland. The Noble Duke
rested the motion solely on that ground, and upon that
ground I shall consider it. The great danger of this mea-
sure is danger to the Church of Ireland. It has been
taken up by the Noble Duke and others, for give
me leave to say there is no such church as that of Ire-
land. The only church recognized is the church of Great
Britain, and that is the majority of the people.—
Therefore it is a mistake made by the Noble Duke and
others who followed him. Though therefore the church of
Ireland be severed from the Church of England, following
the expression that has been made use of, I cannot
think, my Lords, there is any prospect of a Union. I
think the great gallantry of the Noble and Learned
Lord's argument on this question (Lord Eldon) is
taking Roman Catholics to be what they really
are not. I believe, my Lords, the Catholics are sincere
Catholics ; they do not profess what they do not be-
lieve. I should be very sorry to apply the term idolaters
to the Catholics, which the Right Rev. Prelate (the Re-
gius Professor of Oxford) thinks they ought not to be called,
hut isnot, I would ask, the worship of a creature, in which
they say the body, soul, and divinity of our Lord Jesus
Christ is embodied, idolatry ? if not, what is it ? Then
do they believe this ? If not do they abjure it ? If they
abjure it they are not Catholics. I shall be sorry now to
enter into a long discussion, but I trust another opportu-
nity will occur. The House will resolve itself into a
Committee in all probability, but I hope the House will
adjourn. ( Here the cries of Question became tremendous.)

-The Duke of WELLI3IG'roN and the Earl of Wuscutt-
glEA rose together, but the cries for the Duke were deaf-

•fling.

The cries of " Question" were renewed, and

The Duke of WELLINGTON rose to reply. LThe
ladies and strangers who were seated at the foot of the
Throne, unanimously paid his Grace the compliment of
rising when he presented himself to address the House.]
His Grace spoke to the following effect :--I am anxious
to trouble your Lordships with a few observations in an-
Nwer to some of the remarks which have been made upon
the conduct of my colleagues and myself. Ido not
intend to keep our Lordships longer thaa is abso-
lutely necessary for explaining that part of my conduct
which I think requires that explanation. The first
point is one which fell from several Noble Lords, but
principally from a Most Reverend Prelate, in the early
Part of the debate. He made the observation that we
ought to have put into execution the laws against the
Roman Catholic Association. I must remind your Lord-
ships that I stated last year, as well as on other
occas:ons, that it was extremely desirable, before anything
was done for Ireland, that a certain period of tranquillity
should elapse. If that opinion was just, it may seem that
I ought to have proceeded against the Association before I
introduced thismeasure. But I must say, that although
I endeavoured to find the means of prosecuting this Asso-
ciution, I was bound, when my opinion was that this mea-
sure was essential for the interest of this country, to bring
it forward at once; and it was not my duty to refrain from
bringing it forward, notwithstanding the conduct of those
persons was not what I approved of. Moreover, I con-
sidered it my duty to propose in the first instance a proper
measure to put down this Catholic Association, which
measure having been passed has been found to answer its
o,rject ; and there is now, and there has been for some
little time, tranquillity in Ireland. The next point is
that which has been repeatedly assumed by many of your
Lordships in the course of the discussion, but particularly by
the Right Rev. Prelates who have spoken, that the Church
of Ireland (or, as I have recently been reminded, the Church
of England in Ireland—a laugh) is in danger. I call on
those who apprehend that danger to state clearly whether
that danger, on this particular occasion, is more resulting
from legislation or from violence. If they say it is re-
sulting from legislation, I answer that their apprehensions
are puerile. It is impossible to suppose that a small num-
ber of persons admitted into this House, and a small num-
ber admitted into the other House, while we have a Pro-
tcstant Sovereign on the Throne, should be productive of
legislative danger to the Church of England in Ireland.
I beg to observe, with respect to the point relating to the
Union of the two countries, that a fundamental article of
the Union is the junction of the two Churches, called the
United Church of England and Ireland. It is impos-
sible, therefore, that any mischief can occur to the
Church of Ireland, without a breach in the union of
the two countries. There is another point to which
I beg leave to advert for a moment. Although it
is true that we do admit into Parliament members of
the Roman Catholic persuasion, yet at the same time,
by another measure brought forward with it, and
on which we equally rely, we propose regulations
which will have the effect of destroying the influence of
the Catholic Priesthood in the election of Members of Par-