The Sun.
London, England, 1811-01-02 00:00:00

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IMPERIAL, 'PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE 0-F COMMONS,

TUESDAY, JAN. 1.
The House having-resolved iiseif into a Commit-
ke ph the

STATE 01: THE NATION,
•
TheCIIANCEt.Lott GI the EIiCItEQULSR rose.
said„that ,attar what he had alrettly stated upon the
Subject .in general, but mole particularly upon that
part of it witiOt, now came nittler their considera-
tion, Iv, should .not delay them long., There 00\7•
retnaint d Ile more for him, to do
,than" to repeat
what be, bad said upon theforme.roceastott, and
recommended it to the pa rtieular consideration. and
attention. of the Committee,. The general sub-
struce of the le,,iolution which he was now to sub-
n3;l, wi►atever-ttttghl be the opinion,as to its porti-
enlar points,_ was of t+, coat imperta ,ee. He felt no
hesitation to proi upotOheir. nntuty, (4) this night
tic he did.the night below, the Consideration of his
ALtie“).'s ,If alter an early recovery,which
tic) Aran in the House Could say might not -take
phoe.--I titter„; the .lapse of six weeks his Majesty,
was :to surmount the daty,ers of his disordet,, and
recolleCting'what had been done in the !miller in-
watree,:shottld find that he slid noorneet with the,
same consideration now, ,as under situili r circurn-,
stances be had then experienced, he (the Chancellor
of the ExchNucr) •stfotild ask, what must. be his
sensatiotts,on such a &soot, ety .(Sorne, dhstraVoc-
tion expressed tin ;he bppar,i4un Aidc.) lie observed,
that. it there, Was. any imprupriety vhat, he bad
said, he hoped,,Qetitlemen.woidd bttya the.goedness
to state it, in ostler that he mii;kt have an opportu-
nity of noticing the objection ;' but .till some reason
was advanced, he should tetd.,himsets..eutitled to
contend, that if. any duty was binding on them :ifs-
ter a due attention to the public service, it, was the
duly of consulting the feelings of the.Monarch'un.
der tilt. present , distressing . cirehmstanCes, ;
would wish to know whether he could be, called
older for, sern•iment of this ,descriptton 1---Or
whethcr he was to be prevented Iron.. ptaliooo [hp
of the House. . wlhit operated so , shongly
opott his own He would'. beg the Commitite
t.-) consider, that the question this night
" then any, the. stwilk-st, pause tihoold be interposed
Nvith,- he witold not say tt sanzoltin,;, but even with
the ,mallot hope of las Maje6ty's.resot cry. Sorely
Vavlirment sVnitid hot, think ii'lll.,,:ebrory, with Intuit
less ground expeetat ion. than they had at present,
icy re-cstahli,h she lionschold, and prepare 4 dare-
fait state ut 111414 0131.1. WhiCt) NAktity totrk
be
proutond to wish.' Oe (the ChtuNetlot of the Ex...
cht(tin.i ) should . cut. if she .
'period was
•,alloWed ltitet:pose, it would lie getter
Alan nothin.4 ; but he
,was-ht that tope confident that •
no national Injory nor colifilitntinhal 4.l,w2.crcottld•
frontagreciro; RI period he
knew 1114 t bOMC 1.1:e q
of economy involved in
.tn•,t vute. that night, sod
the proposition,of il,nourable Friend (Mr.
Cannig) under the caleulat,,d, to
sots etountenance to the npntion ; bin did the out*.
tion' of economy wt h any ~weight pon the
st.bjt ? was the . Lord (;liar th 'the
Lords•of the,Bal•Chturber, the G othit
. 'and some.dew; othils atsd • the rine, ia Wales
would probridy .irrany..
,The
cspencc:vvould Le.:;o“.:;c.d,by H or 1.5,000 i, so
it GentiernQn it (p,estiOn
i.,(,finotny was notinvolvol, not
•to.knix,
degree,, that ,should make them apprchensive.of the.
consequehees. ,• When they ,considereds in addition'
to t his, that the grant .was lion required for any
lcrlgtb ,Of titne,,,,but, merely for the spites of twelve•
mirhtlift, surely', there was not a ,liberal man in.the
country who
,i.s.puld wish for any alteration while .a
• hope remained..., But it had been urged that this-
etablishutent„, being in the power of the Queen,
might be considerably abused. ,He would allow
that it was pnSiihte a Nlember might be dismissed
for his conduct in, Porliatnent by and.
this ha would allow to be rt', great,. abuse ot- the
. ,power whir which lter,Majesty was entrusted; but
in. would , ut it to their own common sense whether
.-they ceuld.saspect ;her of such an attempt, Whit a.
pp..64..r nr, ithylett.wilts. rcspeet to .tirpe.. Yet still,
it Got i,,kll' t,, o,,Ed,be,ritttistitd.with,clashing out
the words ." pewyr"of removal,' .be would, not
jet;such at modification.- In..•principle he, con=
ceived it to be wrongs the. porter .at 'his Majesty's
gate w;,, ~ppcitnol ity the Lord. .Chamberlain the
scull; n in bis kitchen by .the Lord Steward;: and
like rtlartht:r ; yet this should not inter-
fere with a ParliannentAry regulation.. ~Such bemg
the kievk. he took of the subject,' he would leaVe
ft with, the COllliniiittC to decide ; •but again ,•he
would harem them to consider the mischief they
wOuld do ii they did not agree .to the proposition
for, a limited tithe.r 11., allowed that the question
of Peerages was a'. much greater constitutional
COtiSidoration than the present'; hut the pie,.
sent had a nearer dirt cation his Majosty'S Per-
aortal feelings, and.was toore,calcolated:to Secure his
Easy return to tve [Unctions of his 'high office, and
the resumptioo of that; power with which ha 'was
invetite4 by the Cpu,stifto.ion. 140 concluded with
trro‘ ing the t flew:kV:ton. •
' The ques:ron heir put,
Lord Gowuh, stated. his obje6tion to the exPence
wh,d, welulrlitwitd Ina proposed establishment, and
which v. as' nntieeefisary; The oat suns he was
,petsuadtql,, \vutttd wiltingly:sivea every h requisite.
to support It.); proper Magnificence pf the ,Execuiiv
e
kiriveronierit i!luring his, Majesty's retirement
there was necessiol ito ty. tr ekternal splendour,.
tildes, titer: the. grunting
in:the present' instance,
g 6 tcl cQUStittite7 another political party, For
thesnreasons shottld .nrove,..aan limendrnent :to
the Chancellor of the ..Bchequet's itesoltmon, tha t
that part Whieli related to the rentovfoinr.g
.the purpose
of iiseiting, !,,toge-timr with ,the sole •directitut
isucti portion of his Majesty's household as should
be, deemed ,snitahlo to a due attendance and regard
.
to the Mop.' PertAt,
he mod o. at
Ivls. M
,Awrits inotested aginst t
t;tlit'Ang,, which consisted 10ther a
;in professionseof por.7
ioinai Litt achment to te' Sovereign than' m ob
tic•didserva-
- lions upon the Merits the Sovu-rlgi) than in obset si
10issup0tb the nerit°l . the piestion. hok


wish to be judged by bicprialessitrie and therefore
should make none. Ile agreed in the second Reso-
lutioni. which -asserted that they were bound to sap-
ply ihe d0r6.0 in the Executive, and also: la the
third,. Which pledged theM to. preserve that atttho
rityeenfiie, Jo „the powers and prerogatives of -the
Crown, thepeople were as, much, if not more, in-
terested than the Sovereign 'himself. It was for their
benefit 'such eowera and prerpgatives were given.;
but in the present case the- Right Hon. Gentlemen
proposed to do what he bad no precedent to'bear him
Out in. There was indeed one precedent, though he
could, net, t hink such, as the Right Hon oereble
iGentleMen would he willing to at on, that of the
Lords. Ordainersi at the close of the reign of Edward
:the Second, who tohk upon thettitlVes thd Appoint.-
mem the King's household:. With' respeli to the
1; precedent of mai even Lord Thurlow himself de-
!dared that he, was willinglo'reake alterations in it.
!Bet the Right Hon. Gentlemen, had put iLto the
feelings of the ~Flooe-, whether that Parliament
should not aet as cenlsiderately towards his Majesty,'
as the' Nrhatnent- Of the fer Mer period, atel he,
seemed to conclude, not that the Regent would apt
wrong, but that lie would an as wrong as it was
possible. .1.4 e! .(Mr, M,),waiesurproted to hear, after
all that had fallen from the Right Hoh. Gentleman
himself au the subjeel;sotritich of the pelsolial
cltit-
raeterof his Nlajesly introduced bite the deb lie, our•
waif the, measure propo.ed 01 a mere IlegotiVe
it did not Merely reftise fo• entrust the preroglitites
to the Regent, but entrusied theitt to a person tot
recognised in the Constitution. :As to the quest ion
of economy, he did em consider it as discohnedvd
with the present nuestion, as had represente.i.
Did the Right ;Joi Geotleman mean to propose new
taxes, to supply. the, 'vett& ? And did he slot know
that it was not so muchitheium, as the consideration
that it might he spates,. which would op.eate %repo
the people ? All thoy were how called upon to, do'
was.; to provion Majesty's comfort and con-
veniehee, for Splendour was a thing he'ebuld not
hOW enjoy ; it therefore would net he I ight -to Mt-
, pose an eetal tax..tioo oar she pie for the por;.,
pnse of suppirrongari additional huusetiolii. Si!eing.
Orithiog to 4,11. a LI tratti the tiniagenient re the ribuse•
hold by the Regent, Lee should heartly stipilort the
ameedinent I , • •
Mr. G. jOttNpToNS declared, that he was aOtuated•
by no other Motive than the' good of the country
in the: condliff lie purseed iti,• that House. Ile ~p-proved
proved of the, sentiments of the flight lion. G.•it-
denten under hint (the Chancellor of the •F:xclie-
(pier) with regard to his Majesty, and wii6ld-riave.
thought that• he, was waoting to that resdect
1.4 uwed to a beneficent Sovereign? if he had iieli-
yeiO4 himself in -any other tenns, lint ,ilitriAigh
lie 'al PieVCd of his conduct iii that respect, he
would not agtee with hen indhe vote he should
give. that tilato.: IL!. had considered rthe precedents
upon the subjed to the best of his ability,.especially
that of 1788; and though he agrc'ed with it, as tar
iS if went to recogoise the ,fieht ie the House to
supply the defieteney that had unfortunately taken
place, he did not apprme of the restrictions which
were then intcsidt'd to be pin upon the Regent, or_
eottsider them ae ; and she same Motives
that should induce tbetu to Consider ths . pciwers of
the Ding to be grinted for the 'good of the people,
•shoold influence them to look upon the powers of
the Regent as granted for a, shinier,- purpose: He
lareeeted the party. spirit that preV,ailed o hen: tee
question of ll,tency was first discus's-A. in 1788,43nd
attributed ilh.2 detects t at precedent to the Hush
of victory which at that tine!. animated the admitti•
stration. On this, account he • thought- it was. ilia
Mr.. Pitt pushed his doetrines farther than' he -tad
originally intended.. He .was surprised to hear the
ex*pences of the. Household 'stated at so 10-At a rate,
andbelieved•that he was not mistaken when ha
serted that, it would giee•the Queen the cemtnaud
of 4•00,001.., It was gratifying to ebierve, how this
ferent the temper
..which distioguished the. present
discussions.WaS from' that- which prevailed oft the
former occasion, and be was'stire that' tbeir Consti-
tuents would horns a t;itter oinuian of theol. tom
'the centreat they muse perceive. He -ivonld do the
Right Hon. Cientiewan on the heeeth under him the
juStiee to saf,' that he did not see in his cotiduCt
wish to arrogates, any power to himself ; be did not
wish (ego out of his way to pay hint a compliMent,
he had not done so when, his power proMiSed,th be
-
•ot longerdoration, than it did new but in jeuriee
110- must remark, that hefted shewn an independence'
arid.vigour of conduct which did Into honour. The
Right flan,. Gentleman seemed to 'argue that ,the
granting of the .po.kee to make 'peers to,' the Regent
Would create an obstaele to his Majesty's return to
power. He (Mr.. J.) 'believed he did not go too' far
when lie said, that if the whole House of Lgrdsi or
• the Rowe Of Commons, was to eOdearour to ex.,
elude I. 4 Aelajesty, good feeling aridlgood ease'
of the , ele'of-tatgland would be sufficient to de•
feat such an intentioe" . • •
HILEY ADDIKc,TON wished to express
self not so coldly as the Horf:' Gebtleman. who had
lost sat dowo. With regard to the observations' of
the Hon. Gehtleinatt (Mr. Marlin) who had done
every thutg theist of c-,riliog the Chancellor of thO
Eichequer to order ter Making th'e of 'hili'MajeSty!ll
Millie, the oecasion, he Woukil contend,'did tuily
-
juitity itAintrodOion, for ihcy were now debating
in consequence of his Majesty's illness. Every step
they took involved,
,some consideration v.ith respect
to him. He 'Weida go„findher, and say that they
might debate ihe,questien Lino!) the 'ground Of per-
sonal feeling'alone; be wot Id not do So, for he h.td
a. stronger ground to go upon, that of the Coosti•
tution. Atter sonec further observations in detenee
of the,prectdeni of 'l7BB, ' he'Cooeluded.'WCili' ex;
'pressing hie determination to, rote for the Origihal
rittestiote.
Lord Met,Tos said that: the'question fiiityr was not
whether the Prerogative shoithi he withheld' tiorn
one, Wt, whet4r it shouldbe gii:ett to
soother,. whether they' would 'create an estate Within'
eta estate. Tno flight Ran.(rerolcamil was desirous
to giVe theinflueote to her Majcity, lie' (Lord M.)
entertained every resiiett'faher ALije,,,ty as the wile
of his Sovereign, tint he did not see why satiytcue
should- wish 10 plitce 'hi' the 'bawds at the Queed
those powers which would 'tlol, liittuSt to thti
hands of the regent.' 'The rObjedw as to separate die
Court front the Cotdverninent, and create an mile-

once against which the Government would have to
struggle. ,The Right GetiAleman appeared ti.
'be very 'cautious establishlng a 6acf, pretenent, but
while he was.so anxious to guard agaics,t a h'.ld
re-
gent, he forgot that it was as necessary io guard
against a bad tahretv, as if 'ambition might' nut be
equally injurious in one charader as in the ether.
Ile begged Gentlemen also'to carry in their minds
that they would hereafter be ealled.upon to vote some
preVision for the notification of the King's, recovery,

and that Would probably be not by l'adiatnt-at,.bui
by the Privy Council, which was the-Council of the

Queen.
Mr. STEPIIEN said, he could hardly refrain frotn
of ering his admiration of the sentimetits- expri-s,eth
by the last Speaker but one, and his warM di,apPro
bation of the dotirine of an Hon. Friend of

Never was he more astonished than upon hearing
his Hon, Friend maintain ihat they should put all

. .
considerations of Personal respect to the Sovereign
out of their minds on • this occasion. It wotrlq
indeed be it most crud and pedantic interpreta-
"Lion of the Orders of tile House to think or

.
entorCing-. themunder 'such' circuit.' ances. It
was fair, it. wore riglit,..for his ajnotitable Friend to.
consider the feeling 4 of his Majesty,. and to pro-
ide-that when the use of Ids understanding should

he.restored lie should not see strangers around him
Unforiunately they had many -proofs that neither-
age .00(sicktiess, ot,r,politicti habits .had blunted the
edge of 'that e,:tquii.ite sensibility of which he was
possessed. His virtues too they must all hive • re,.'
vtireneed; it was in vain that any attempt Was made
to paint suspicions elitert.linyd of succeeding ad-
ministratioto, to tho tOunt,iin from which they ticiu
ed, tl e peoph:!'lUund ih thevirtueS, hot h public. and
private, of his Majesty, an art haute t 0 ibe poisO6 of
partrteelih.g. He did not Want coniidenc'e', in
V. the
illustriOns personage in whose hatitls• it Was propos-
ed that the po4er should hehad.an drat
resped for him which his rauls and' virtues te mand-
ed, • but - of ,hint they had -not yet had t,txperieoce,
they hid wit hech gpvetned by 1.... fifty
was surp'.-iSed- his Flintitirahlo atuf

Friend -talk of economy. It had heemi said that the
establisiovient might be rated at ,400,0001. e-year,
ient- Most of this was devoted to tradesmen's bills, i
aod'uoi to any Parliameutary influence.' Besides it
stras-iioW only demanded for a year, perhaps not •for
hall a year,' perhaps the whole stint required
might not aiuoent to 40,0001. and would 'they t 4;
fuse that to a Mon irch. who had reigned over them
fifty years ? Honoitrahle 'Mind Learned Friend'
supposed that the people of England would approve
of such a saving, not merely on account of the' sum ,
itself, but ou ar.count of • the popular purpose, with
which ' it
.wa. withheld. But he (Mr, Stevens).
Would defend Ow people of England fro:u such
imputation. He was sure they wvnld, pay ten times
the ,sum, rather than see liter Sneereign income.
Oieneed, he was seil'•; the; !;td say, cum.;Upend he
economy that saved 1.15 tlll3, while a left our nee.
petted and bene ()kilt Monarch in a situation sr)
little according with obi wishes. He would ask by_
woat kind of feeling did the Gentlemen upon'the
opposite expected to be supported. He was 'sur-
prised at the objections made to the restrictielis, as
they were limited to the very tnodernte period of
one year, end maintained teat n evil could follow
from acceding to the original motion.
Sir SANIU they great in-
iust ice deneto the:Royal Person ab ut to bc 'invested '
with the regal pes,vers, in the spezch of the last Hon.
'_Member. The Hun. Member had stated, that vest-
ing the power of removing the Oilicer! of the house,.
hold in the .regent, was in effect the same as to
moving them from the person of the mooarch im-
mediately. Had 'the House any reason to ddubt
that the feeiings of his Royal Highness it ere in uni-
son with those of Isis Royal Father ? What security
had the country in the adanuistration of the house- •
hold affairs under her Majesty more than under the •
regent ? But Gentletrien seemed to think that the
Prince would .not act in such a Manlier as to. provide
(Or the comforts of his Majesty: They bait tuAle
an Improver asti of his Majesty's
,oathe by Statitig
that nothing would atieCt him so much as the re-:
coeval of the .Lords of his Bed-tbattber. What
ground had they to suppose filet his Royal
'ness Wrfuld so act ? out the 'wholt... at his conduct
evince a contrary disposition.; With respect to the
necessity of imposing restr:ctions; the Hattriurable
and teamed Gentleman eiiiereained great drih!`its as'
to that necessity. lie -could, not agree in. opinion
With those who contended that the two Rouses qt
Parliatrient
.possessed the right by 'substituting
!something 'winch sliotaid stand in place Of the
',executiVtepOwer, without airy power), .or is least
, Without' all the power which bedringed'io the ex-
cutive. \Vas it intended to be insisted that Pilia
ment werecompetent to create a new WWI ?
• What powetsdid'they possess ne 'say that. time Itny'al
Autfctirify should be's° restricted ? The right was vita'
vested in them, but in the three branehei of. the Le-
gislature by the' Constitution ; therefore to
that they were sufficient to create such Conititutitin,
was in effeet to assume what to them did not 'apper-'
tain. The deity niPsrliameut was in fact to restore
undiminished the Whole Constitution, As to ileit
branch of the IloYal Authority- connected with the
bestowing of Peerages, he could not see any distinc-
tion (who drawn to that reSpect, so to warrant a
shspicion that the Regent would exercise theene.-:
rogative but upon national and just PC4160214.
! Would it ibe contended that hisßoyal Higtiness
. would be so athised as to advancer to thohonours of
the Peerage any persons
.but those who for Memo-
: riiMS, gerV:leefi were entitled to it ? 'He well knew
!hat even the Right Hen. and Learned Gentleman
had refused to be Chief Justice of toe Conerrioti Pleas,
because he was not to‘be'made e'Peer vii iiieOcom
It was a proof therefore that none but per-.
"sons of meth were ennobled, ,yet he: did not etieiin
to sily the,Right nut entitled
to be rewarded fur ilia l tltalic services.. The dis.
unction that was to be tnade-in that
„resped was
cint'sequelitly invidteus; 'it was such, a distin&iint
which he could- riot comprehei.i.; The Honour..
able and Learned- Gentleman then adverted 6
the, precedent of.
_17.8. npoir v these Re.;
Solutions were grotieded, and, iii coireneneteg
tlllf t) that piecedem, took Occ;.15101) femok 14,015
`this cliaracfer- di that - Statestiein,.
Pitt. Those who loved memory et thin" pelsore,

SIUf.

he observed, Were fond
. . . . .
or enlogiiing .
birn, bat •11
his opinion hii memory did not claim any eulogy;
he had t ot the pretensions to the character of a VII
man ; it was the pro Vince and duty of a great noa
to administer to the comfOrts—=to ituprove a 33
better' the condition, ot •the State over .which it
had pl, ased hi; country to place him. That Mr'
Pitt possessed great and splendid. talents could ill
be denied, but that -those talents were'empli,Yejt°
/Ito