The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-02 00:00:00

GROUP L.

aumpronn, CHICHESTER, AND PORTS-
MOUTH RAILWAY.

The Committee assembled at twelve o'clock, Mr. E. B. Denison
in the chair, and resumed the inquiry on this railway, when Mr.
Sergeant TALFoURD, who appeared for the committee of the in.
habitants, called;
Mr. T. L. Atkins, a banker, at Portsmouth, who stated that he
had moved the first resolution at the meeting on the 7th of May,
of which much has been said. About 1,000 was the attendance at
that meeting, and the resolutions had been carried almost unani-
snOusli, and a great feeling had been manifested against the South
Western Company and in favour of the Atmospheric line. This
feeling partly arose from the detention at Bishopstoke
after the Southampton train had • ' been detached. An
impression has arisen 'that 'if the South-Western
secured the iwnopoly, Southampton • would get the
greater part of the traffic. In the bills published by the South-
Western Company, they announced that the packets for Lyming-
ton, Yarmouth,
_Plymouth, and Havre started from South-
ampton, although t'e packets also touched at Portsmouth, of
which no mention wNttever was made. In his opinion the
terminus at London bridge. would be more convenient than
that at Nine Elms or a: Vauxhall. The terminus
at Portsmouth of the atmospheric 2:4e was also better than the
other. All parties were united at Poil-smouth in favour of the
atmospheric line, and there was certainly a 'erect jealousy of the
port of Southampton.
To the cross-examination of Mr. GURNEY, Mr. Atkins stated
that there had been considerable excitement at then; eeting, and
great difficulty had been experienced by the speakers on :Ile side
of the Guildford line in getting la hearing. He had not
heard that there were books at the stations for the entrance of corn.
plaints, and he had not thought of writing to the Directors. The
Havre packets only stopped at the mouth of the harbour, and did
not come up to the pier, and apparently it was to the interest of the
south. Western Company to carry the passengers to Portsmouth
rather than to Southampton, in consequence of the greater fares.
He testified that a great body of the passengers to the Isle of Wight
went to and from the west-end of London.
To the reexamination of Mr. Sergeant TALFoURn, Mr. Atkins
replied that the coaches which went to the West-end had also
branch coaches, or went direct to the City after calling at the
West.end.

To the inquiries of Lord CUTE, Mr. Atkins replied that though
the feeling of jealousy of Southampton was exaggerated, yet that
there was certainly cause for it, and he did not think that there
was so much attention shown to the interests of Portsmouth as to
those of Southampton.

To the inquiries of Mr. Monicrox MILNES, Mr. Atkins re-
plied that the indisposition to support the South-Western Company
arose from the little inclination hitherto exhibited by that Company
to oblige Portsmouth.
To the inquiries of Mr. OSWALD, the witness stated that in his
opinion Portsmouth would be placed on a par with Southampton,
if a line were to be made which would bring the former place within
the same distance and time as the latter.

To the inquiries of the Cturemast—Mr. Atkins stated, that he
was aware that the proposed line by Guildford would be shorter
than the line to Gosport by eighteen or twenty miles, and would
bring back the traffic to Ryde, but he did not think that the
South-Western Company would give so fair a chance to Ports-
mouth as to tiaUlhampton. The first object of the people of
PottsrhOuth WaS an independent line, but their chief objects were
expedition and economy.
Captain Saar, formerly in the army, but now retired on full pay,
and a witle-Merchant at Portsmouth.-.. Was well acquainted with
Both lines, and believed that the advantnes derived from the
direct line would be greater than from ate other, and cer-
tainly thsi proposition of the atmospheric I:fte was very
enthuslast.cally received at the meeting on the 7th
of May at Portsmouth. The general opinion was in favou7 of the
Atmospheric line; And the terminus of that line would be most ad-
vantageotit lot the Milt
mileagethe
charge chargei.
theto t36oasiprOi
From the cross-examination of Mr. 6nusley, it appeared that
the
ewn was sg lesssi thans tn o
cip
thatsa r to ow
a
to Southampton, although the diatat4i ikag greater; but
yet he thought that business had been impeded. Southampton,thes am:ti;
and
Mr. R. Gibbon, a merchant and general shipping agent, fe:1,44,
at Portsmouth, stated that his firm paid Ss. 6d. a ton for goods
more than they did at the docks at Southampton. The terminus at
London-bridge, as well as that at Portsmouth, for the atmospheric
line was the best for the town. The Mediterranean packets
lay in quarantine at the Motherbank, which was about
five miles from Portsmouth, and fourteen from Southampton at
high water, and two miles farther when the sands were bare.
Many passengers landed from the Oriental at the Motherbank this
week, and had left Portsmouth before the other passengers
reached Southampton. In his opinion it would save two hours to
the West India packets and the Government packets, if they stopped
at the Motherbank. There were three American packets out and
three home every week. About fifty large East Indiamen called
at Portsmouth yearly and about twelve Madeira packets.
From the cross-examination of Mr. Goartev, it appeared
that the extra charge of eight shillings and sixpence a ton
arose from a charge of 2s. fid. for unloading and 65. for cartage
from Gosport. The delay of which he complained was the refusal
of the Company to let his firm have their goods before
ten o'clock in the morning. They paid six shillings for
cartage of goods from the City to Nine-elms, and he was
not aware the Oriental Company had fifty tons a week by
water, but they were of a different quality, being shipped to China
and the United States. He had been on the Committee of the
Town Council, appointed to communicate with the South- Western
Company, and he believed that the answer was, that the Company
were ready to be bound to make the transit in every way as speedy
and efficient as to Southampton, and subject to such regulations as
the Board of Trade might impose. To the requirement of the Town
Council, that the journey should be performed in the same time
as to Southamptom, the distance being; two miles more, the
Company had replied that they would be bound to work the line
fairly, and without any favour to the one town or the other. At
the meeting on the 7th of May, four out of the number (nine) on
the Committee had resigned, but three others had since been ap-
pointed ; but no communication had been had with the South.
Western Company since the report of the Committee had been
made to the Council.
Mr. Sergeant Darman said that he should now decline to call
any further witnesses from Portsmouth, but he wished to correct a
misrepresentation which appeared to have arisen from what he had
dropped in his observations yesterday. It had been supposed that
the people of Portsmouth had desired that, in the event
of the atmospheric line being refused, the House would pause
before they adopted any line, whereas what he had said was, that
in the event of the atmospheric line being refused, they hoped the
House would pause before they adopted the Guildford line.
To the inquiries of Lord CLIME, the witness stated that the
extra charge of Ss. 6d. a ten on goods was merely imposed on ex-
port goods. The chief object of their communication with the
South-Western Company had been to obviate the stoppages at
Bishopstoke, Chichester, and Portsmouth, and if they could obtain
a security that the goods sent to Portsmouth would be delivered
as soon as those sent to Southampton, the difficulty would be re-
moved,
Ill.WLltiaox then rose to address the Committee on behalf
OF the Corporation of Portsmouth, and said that he thought they
had acted rightly and wisely in their attempt to protect the interests
of the inhabitants. There was no doubt that Portsmouth was en.
titled to h line connecting the town with the metropolis, and the
question was, who was to make it? It would be recollected that
before the Southampton line had been completed an at-
tempt had been made to induce the South-Western Com-
pany to bring the line to Portsmouth, when it was replied to
them that they could come no nearer than Bishopstoke, which was
five miles from Portsmouth. The original intention of the South.
Western Company had been to go to Bath, and they had fought a
very severe battle with the Great Western Company in Parliament,
and had been defeated. They had, therefore, no right to rely on
the vested interest which they assumed from their Gosport line,
and had no ground to depend upon for an opposition to a
direct line going through an entirely different country, and they
had therefore no claim on the Committee. This Guild.
ford line was not put forward with a view to the
accommodation of the public, as had appeared by the evidence of
Mr. Chaplin; but when the atmospheric line had been proposed
and published, the South-Western Company came forward, at the
eleventh h our, to interfere with it. No doubt could possibly be
entertained that the feeling of the inhabitants was unanimously in
favehr of the direct line. Of all the witnesses called in favour
of the Swill:lrd communication, one-half had been strangers ;
and thro who were not, were not in a position. to

know anything of the trade of the port. With respect to
the termini, that of the atmospheric line took in, within a radius
of half a mile, fully three-fourths of the borough, while that
of the Guildford line was down at the edge of the water, in a
distant, unfrequented place, and possessing the single advantage of
transferring the Government property with greater facility. As
regarded the prejudices of the inhabitants of Portsmouth, their
feelings might, he thought, be distinguished by a milder
term than that which had been used, and such promises
had been held out to them by the proprietors of the
atmospheric line as fully justified the preference which they
had expressed. The charges on the Southampton line had only
been reduced during the last three months, the second-class car-
riages were all open and exposed, and the passengers by that class
were only allowed 561bs. of luggage, while on the Manchester line
they were allowed 100Ibs. and 1121bs. This was a great consi-
deration for persons going to a seaport, who generally required a
larger quantity of luggage than was usual. Another point was
the refusal to grant sufficient accommodation to the tbird.class
passengers, none indeed except such as the Board of Trade might
direct, and the results of the traffic in past time was a
sufficient testimony of the fact. With their express trains there
was no accommodation for second-class passengers, except for a
limited number of servants. This was a grievance, and showed the
effects of the monopoly ; and, besides that, the delay at Bishopstoke
occasioned no small inconvenience. The interest which this Com-
pany had always shown for Southampton would doubtless induce the
Directors to give a preference to that town ; and, if this line were
made, they would have no competition whatever to contend
with, and that was the only security of any useful
character for the public advantage. The Duke of
Richmond had expressed his opinion that, if another railway were
formed, the probability was that they would all fall into the same
hands, and the monopoly be worse than ever; but he cited the
opinion of Sir R. Peel to show that such was not likely to be the
case. He would say one word about the line in favour of which
the Corporation had petitioned. Not only would the atmospheric
line supply a large area of country with railway communication,
but it would leave the coast line open, create competition, and
give the fairest opportunity for testing the principle that had
ever been offered to the public. But as this would be
brought fully before the Committee on Monday by the Learned
Counsel for the atmospheric line, he would say nothing further
on that point, and he would therefore beg of the Committee to
recollect that the people of Portsmouth were the most important
body upon the line, and their feelings and their interests ap-
peared evidently in favour of the opposing line. With these ob-
servations he would leave the matter in the hands of the Com-
mittee.

Mr. FLOOD then addressed the Committee on behalf of the land-
owners of the line, after which
The Committee deferred their decision until they had heard the
evidence on the atmospheric line, which is to be opened on Mon-
day, and adjourned till twelve o'clock on that day.

GROUP N.

CORNWALL RAILWAY.

The cross-examination of Captain Moorsom was resumed at the
sitting of the Committee—

The cost of the Bodmin branch, four miles in length, and which
would be a double locomotive line, would be 41,3261., and was
made up of the following items :—Fencing, 1,4731. ; earthwork,
8,8331.; masonry, including bridges of all kinds, 5,9851.; perma-
nent way, 14,4121.; stations, 3,6391. ; contingencies, 3,434/. ;
land, 3,5801. He then detailed the cubic feet of the various via-
ducts and cofferdams on the whole line, the positions of the level
crossings, &c. The length of the boat at the Hamoaze was 58 feet;
the space occupied by carriages was about 13 feet in breadth. The
boat was divided into two roads, and the engine by which it was
worked was in the middle. If it was necesssary to convey six
carriages across, three would be placed on one side and
three on the other ; if three, two on one side and one
on the other. The carriages would be drawn from the
boat by ropes. Several reads were crossed on a level.
The passenger trains might be worked at thirty miles an hour, but
the average speed would be from twenty to twenty-five miles an
hour. Each train without the engine and tender would weigh
about twenty tons. There would be five passenger trains up and
five down daily, with three trains for the conveyance of goods, but
the number would depend upon working arrangements. The
working expenses would be 3s. 4d. a mile. He could not say
whether the Board of Ordnance had or had not given their consent
to the line crossing the glacis at Devonport.
By Mr. DIERREWETHER, on behalf of the promoters of the Bill—
Sharper curves than those of the proposed line were worked at
great speed, and without inconvenience on other lines—on the
Manchester and Leeds, for instance. The majority of the roads
crossed on a level were not of an important character.
Mr. Cole, of Liskeard, had been occupied for the last 40 years in
surveying land in Cornwall. He had surveyed the land which
would be required west of Liskeard, and had estimated the expenses
at 18,6531. 163 acres would be required, at a general average of
1091. per acre ; from Eldad to the ferry, at 5,440/. At the
latter point only one horse would be required, the expenses.of which
was included in the estimate. The land there was principally oc-
cupied by market.gardeners, and the remainder was pasture.
Mr. John Bowen, Mr. Carworth, and Mr. Whitley had also sur.
veyed portions of the line and given their estimate.
S r C. Lemon was examined by Mr. Rowe with respect to
the various county meetings which had been held for the
purpose of constructing a railway in Cornwall. From the
first he was in favour of a coast line. Money was
a great obstacle to the construction of a central
line. It was important that there should be a direct line to Fal-
mouth from Exeter. Some of the leading magistrates were against
the line, but they bore no proportion to the great body who were in
favour of it. The mercantile body were in favour of it, and much
of the feeling which had been expressed against it had subsided.
The report of the Board of Trade on the line had dispelled the
delusions which were entertained by many respecting it. •
To other questions put to Sir Charles by Mr. MERREWETHER,
and Mr. DENISON, he replied that, with the increase of population,
there would be a diminution of expense and increased facilities, and
that the Bodmin branch might be greatly extended.
Mr. Prothero, of Truro, the solicitor to the Bill, handed in
the Various particulars in connexion with the Company.

Mr. TALBOT said he was instructed to withdraw the opposition
of Lord Vivian to the Bill, arrangements having been effected
with his Lordship, who was desirous not to oppose what might be
of advantage to the inhabitants of the county.
Mr. MERREWETHER said the opposition of the'parties interested
in the Terpoint Ferry was also withdrawn, so that there only re-
mained the opposition of Mr Thomas.
The Committee then adjourned until Monday.