The Sun.
London, England, 1818-02-06 00:00:00

SUPPLIES.

The Report of the Committee of Supply was
presented, and the several Resolutions read and
agreed to, atter Mr. GRENEELL hart expressed the
hope. that a new arrangement would be made with
the Bak,' respecting the manageriient of the Ira-
gisceS of public money in its hands. The ail-
' vanee tirade by that establishment of six
'at tour per cent., only gave rbelsoblic a bonts of
64,000/. a year, which, with the three millions
also advanced without interest, formed no equi-
valent for the advantages which it tlerived from
.the large fiums which were left in its pOssession.
!:Those.stuns- had, for many years, stmounted to
eleven millions. Any Banker would:do the busi-
ness for:20,0001: a-years and yet the Bank re-
ecived for it upwards of half a million. -

The-CuAricou,of the ExcHeattatt said, that
it was his intention to make arraugemeuts with
the Bank, adequate to the advantages which it
&rived from the mamittetnedt of the fluidic money.
'The six millions-in question could not have been
Obtaihed any where else ar the time, on Audi ad-
vantageous te: in-: The Public had at !cast gained:
one per cent, Hi thought, however, in the pre-
suit state 'of- the Money market, that it would be
better io:pay off these six Millions, and to cuter
into some new arrangement with the. Bank. •

STATE OF THE NATION.

Lord CA4rrt.L.itiGri' did not feel himself called
upon, in proposing that the Papers Which he had.
brought ttoWn to the:HOUse by order Of the Prince
Regent shbirld be :referred Conitnittee, to
cuter at prrsent into ,any statement or explica-
linn respecting he subject which• they
Whatever views indivithials' might take of that
sObject, the House would come to the consideca-
(woof the :question with 'better meins'tvlieu it*
&Ironic! he'in"ptiSsesSion •Orthestibstance of the in-
'form.oion which •those 'Papers contained. 11c
,iih•onlit 'therefore' abstain. from saying arty thing
on the past or prcs;nit state of the country, and
would only spettk respecting ilie•conese of the
proceedings to be adopted. Ile had been 'cities-
'blued some nights'Since by art Honottrable and
Learned Gentleman respecting the 'forms to be•
observed in carrying on 'the proposed inquiry,
and a hope hid been exprestert;• that it 'would be
dbrerent in its nature from those in which Par-
liament had been'ettgaged in similar cases. He
cool(' assure the Hon. Member that it was not his
intention to dc-!art from Parliamentary proceed-
ing,. The -same linnoin able and 'Learned Gen-
deznan had also asked last night.whether the Cow-.
mittee Wnuld he armed .witir the pov.er of calling
for
.persous and papers, and he hind been lidded
by the question, supposing that the Honourable,
Member meant that .a new mode of proceeding.;
would be adOpled. As lie found that in the 104111
ofttinstructions the Committee last year had been
invested, With the pow.ers in question, he had now'
to state, that the precedent vvonld be strictly fol-
lowed. He' 'should make no further obicrVations
hurl' on what f4iteti from 'tile Hoti.:Gentie,
nran,.that the Couunittec was appointed with tht

view 6fieeniniiiending some Legislative prOeeetl-
itig. 'lbis idea was not in any degree Well founded.
He would &Ankly declare that he considered
1341 of Indemnity necessary tinder the • present
circumstances of the country ; but not as grow-
ing out of the.reconnuendationi..of a Committee.
It.was necessary, because it would giVe Govern-
ment the power of making fuller disclosures, add
throwing. its own .cooduct-upen. AO. .ekariiination,.
without, however, violating the faith which had
been pledged to individuals. He trusted that Par-
liament would be gratified to find theTrosperity
of the country reviving in its inj-engili, and the
great nuns, of, the peril passed away: "Yet it
would be wrong in them to, suppose- that danger-
.orp nkii were not still working i;vitli'a ilegiee of
activity which regoired correspondent vigilance
to countetart. • lie should'. reserve all Oleic
Copies,. however, for. the . time .wlien the
feet would come in a fuller vianner before. the
Howse, and he should conehitle by. moving-7
"That 114 e :Papers presented to the
,HOuSe, lay
order of his'-'Royal Highness the Prince Regent,
be referred to.a Committee."

The QuestiOtt haNiog been read,
"; `Mr. eat',:tt Said, that. he' had no objection to
refer those. Papers-to ,IsCoMmittee, but he thought
it unwarrantable that they should have come aown
to Parliament without u Message from the Crown,
to state the grotinds nn which they were sent. Liu
bad been told that there were precedents for Inch
a course ; but, at the 'conimenceinent of a Ses-,
'a ben the Speech front the.' Throne Was' to-
tally silent on the subject, when- the ,country
seemed restored to trangniility, and the Hon.
Gentlemen opposite took delight in expatiating
on'its leviving prospVrity, it was rather astonish-
ing that such Papers should be sent down to the
Honse. Iu former. instances they' had been for-
warded, not to ask for the advice, but for the as-
Sistance of the House, and with a view to sonie
legislative measure being passed, to answer the
'wants of.the Cron n. But now, there came merely
-a bag, relating to the internal state of•ilse ono-
try. Then let it be referred to the Committee on
the Your Lan s, and no other. The Noble Lord
had not said what was the object of the Crown
in sending those -flapers.,• or 'what was to be ex-
peace} from -the Conimittee. 'Neither Lad anS,
"Message been sent, because it fnust.have told the
views of Government, which.wete intended to be
kept secret. He looked at all.bags with jealousy,
and when they catne down without any message,
and with such it 'mysterious sp`eech as that of the
Noble Lord,.he thought that all should share that
jealousy.' The trnth•of the whole was this : his
.41..liqesty's--Ministers -found- that for nine months
they had made a strong prima, focie case on tte.
mindstof-the country- against themselves, and they
now wished, with the assistance of a Committee,
'to make a prima fociei case for theinselVes. --The
Noble Lord had candidly avowed- that he wanted,
a Bill of Indemnity. That he wanted it waS-no
secret;, but what -would • be the effect of a Coml
tnittee appointed by ballot ? Why, to recommend
a -11111 of Indemnity ; AIMI to indemnify whom ?-7.
t6e.'persons who had appointed thit Committee.,
lie. did not deny that there were oe.:,tsions. when'
indemnity might really be wanteo, and no owe
would become Secretary of State tulles's he shontd
proteetetlin the.cietation -of his doti,s.• Butt.
Was this -a case of, that nature What. had been
done under the Suspension of the Ilabeaq .Corpus?
Had the leaders'of.the cOnspiraey been taken_np ?-
No;' but Illinisters,-lia...with a drag •net,..had awept,
some' coun ties,- and ltept some 'obscure
for -months Bat it was necessary 'that-
this should be done. All the stage:effeet possible
was to be given to the Suspension Act; bccatie.
alarm' had been.the daily bread of the nation. Tlie
people Were to rise, the Soldiers to be suffocated,
and the- Coustitutiots overthrown, tinless saved
by therigorouslncasurys of the. Administrationt
Heniost ,Aemnlj7 declired,lhat whatever.bad spirit
might ttave-show n itself in 'the country, and what-
'ever clanger might have existed in particular dis-
tricts, 'there was not one solitary.instance Which
just ifiedrheneeessityoftheSaspensitin ofthellabcas
'Corptis'.'He did' not now sr ok in the dal k ,oron the
intimations of a Minister,. but from the evidence
produced .at the late Trials at Derby. He had read
hoar i't'r+ls attentively, and.had been repaid.for
his trouble by the splenditl abilities displayed in
the defence by Mr. DeisMan ; and lie could say
that he had not found a little- of evidence that
called tar more than the'ordioary :course of law.
Ministers telt, in fact, that the alarm which they
had excited never required the remedy Which had
been applied., It was therefore natural for them
to. be anxious respecting the manner in which the
eXtraordinary powers entrusted to them had been
exercised. It was his opinion.that they had I)4:en.
exerted with unnecessary rigour ; and unless they
,could make' it 'ont clearly that' the SnsPerision
could not possibly be' taken off earlier (Iran it had
been,' there vapid be a strong caie against: them
for every individual whom they had kept one
hoar longer in prison than he ought-to have been..
As to the sjes, if any thing disgaved the coun-
try, it was the unblushing publicity with which
those infernal scoundrels had been countenanced.
It was certaittlynecessaey that Government should
have information upon important subjects, but it
it should be proved that, in consequence of the in-
flammatory language 'Of those men, many pdor
wretches • had been seduced iota ;;Hilt, it would
tarnish a greater mass of infamy than he had ever
heard of. Who were tt,w oot their trial, but
'the 'Government themselves:? And should not
then the House require that the Committee ap-
pointed to try them'shotild be different from that
proposed'? It was well known that, all Sec et
Comniittees were appointed by Government : lists
of names were sent to 'their friends to put hot; a
glass on the'Tsible, and the COminittee was con-
-stitured, And could'such a Committer, whatever
might be its results, give safislaeliou'to thecoum:
try ? But. what 'authority had ;the Connnittee to
report ? Who asked that it shoull do it ? ()I if
it were to report, Why shimid it he more than the
contents. of the Ba'g, ? ,But let stk.!), C;otnn►it-
lee revolt, and who could doubt the nature of
that Report, dirt. Miaisters had heel' the most
mild and just that ever lived ?---And Om a Bill of
Indemnity 'was to lie laid bilOre the 'loose. All
this was a niece juggle to screen them. But in
•doing. this they had filed a Bill of indieitoent
against:thetuselves: They had pot.thimselyes oil
attic' trial, and that before any motion had beet

• . r.
Made in the horse arramst them. They 141"
come down with their.li'ag, saying, touch it wits' •
dare', our characters are in it. In fact notlihl4
could create More disgust. through the co..sittry
than the tiseaSure prOpitsed.
. Mt. BaTtlVliii' contended, that the Ili roceedior.
prOposed was nut new. Ile appeared to the con-
duct of the Right. [lon, Gentlemaa himself, who!
in 1801, hid supported a iimilat measure.
‘vhicl
had been adopted b_. the_l-lonse, and the Cum
•
inittee thus appointed had reconint6ded the Sus!!
pension of thellabeaS COrpies aantiili Bill or In'
detonity. The 14ottie,, he thought, should fallost
that pi ereelent „ not becauie itwas a precedent,
-hut because it wordifsuit the necesO!eti of thi!..pri./.•
'sent case. As to the atksei Hilo of the' Right [boor,
Gentleman, that the leaders of the Conspiraey lieu-t
not beetr .taken•up, he cantended the they h;uti,.
such at they were. . liVos-it meant that only 1)0'7.
sons of a certain rank should have been arrested ?
•He wished the itight lion. Member, when' be
.(sikeel of appealsi would appeal to the
.Magistracy
in the parts disturbed, to kttow whether they liatt
not piesied,Goireindient for the application of the
measures.adopted. That there. was in the eottittri
a disposition toeffeet a general rising, 'hid ap-
peated in the .first Repot t orthefCommittee. 1:11e
day of rising had been atterwardspoatponed,
,as
the second Report Would show ; and, in: fact; the
conspitacy had in one case exphided., ..This Was'
' all proved'; for the criminals bad been put on their • .
trials and convicted. Could such an insiirrectiots
as that in which they heti been' voyaged have been,
attempted without the epeetatiim of soppore
from the country ? It that support 'had not befit
given, ,and ihesinsutrection had broken: Out only at
one place, it was in consequentefof.thertneastirel
adopted. There had been _no promiscoons arrest
of persons, no harshness, and those talten up were
actually the leaders. , Ile then :defended the ap-
pointinent of a Crimmittee by (,allot., which via.
left it teethe .House to decide by Ps vote oil .thei
choice of Members, as had been clone in the 0"
Otination of the fop Mer Comatiiree, When several
names bad been proposed instead of those on the,
list. As to the powersentensted to Ministers, ilte•
'Right' Ilonciurable Gendeman might be assured
- that they'llael-not been exercised lßeyond Wlctiftha
nature of the., case required. As to the peesoosr
described as informers„ the Hon. Gentleman had
acknowledged that Government might en-Our
men to procure iriforoiation; but coosidercd IC
wrong to set persons originally to ingratiate them-
selves with the conspirators. . In the Case of er.ne
' who had been intich talked of ((liver), the hlaino
fell chiefly on the circumstance ; for it was by ac-
cident that he had
.become acqnainred with ilia
existence of cOnspiracies, which lie hail cotiono-
nica•ed to Government, who then desired hinsta
continue to gain information. The proper cha-
, meter in wbichnthis person stood tell there(ores
1 under the deseriptiougiveo by the'- Right 111 ti .
1 Gehl/emu. Ai to the incp,iry priposed, it would
i not show the uccessity.ot- measures similar to thOs.t•
of the last Session,' brut it would display the stistd"
Of...he country, and prove Miti'si.ers en!irled -tot st
.eratitode for the wonthr :itr-Which, they I) O r i: x' 0- d
tiled their powers. -• • .
;\lr.:freeNssrexplaineil.
Mr. DOOGLA'S, glVt.' dots S'f,lVlT)r} protesi" ggniosc
the form of the Committee-propon-A. It 1 •"`'ili
' be a- mere mockery, di6.gra-tetnl mid :htiogtfiotts "'
, Old-louse. •It (he Noble* Lord. enidrr-n-"ot •tei.tic
~the investigation of hi* Conduct (,)-' a faii-illb„„„!,
• it wonid he more to tire- ban o7tr OtireMol:se it*/
' lie shoidd patneibil Committee iiiinserf,• and- trust
. 'io his own lefinetire to 'carry it-by a niajority:,,Pe
'denied that the case of isCa, cfuot.ol by (lie' it iir,liZ
Pon. Gentletrnip opposite, was in. all.respzets' :a-
. milar to the present ; for tbottie smile -CdmPiit
tee had recommended the.' 'Sit'Spentsr(-41 oLibe; 'Ha..,
beas Corpus ant: theßill.of ,1.-41eals.',i1F:- Every 4-
peoyanee of frail& sloodel-be a verieled,. traill heliOnoor
of the House of:Commons, like that .iIP a tvaitiao,
should he wit bout suspicion and wii hoot' slt4ii.--;
As to a Committee 'appointed by ballot,i it' had.
been dauowtedged that persons bolding* rilaqrs.
under Government Might become its members !
What, some of the criminals themselves_ were ter
be•their own judges ! He 'appealed to the maftli-
ness and candour of the Noble Lord. If in 'piri,‘
vate life he were called to account far his condtect
before !mire obscure individuals, what would.,liti'
the first thing he woold ask ? Wottid it not ',ha'
. the perfecrimparti,dity and independence or slie.
tribunal by whichshe .shoulA.lre tried "i• And why;
should he now abandon' tittit- lofty sentimentti,;.
when still more important'snbjects were .concern
ed ? On the verrUct of the Committee proposed,,.‘
it*woUlddePend whether. individuals commit.tell•
under the suspension of the flaheas Corpus vrowle.V
have their remedy at common law against his Zilfa-•
jest y's Ministers, or whether they'would be ile-
- barred front the exercise of that right. - The Coin-,
. mittee would the'refore he not only political, but,'
legal, and the individuals concerned would liave,se
sight to he hcnrd against the measure iii view.,---
' • if the Noble Lord w,isloe'd for a Ccimnii:tee, Allot.
to examine, but to applaud leis measures, let'lliat.:
appoint one at once hi'rUielf, "
" Then let Ida! give his little serirtte la‘q,
" And sit attentive to his ownappiatore.r ~
But let him not attempt to -give such a Comm it red'
an appearance of impartiality. As to the oeces-,
' sit y for the measures which had been adopted, he •
' contended that it hail never existed. -WAS it-tbes
suspension of the Habeas Corpus. which bad Cl'c.:
' ferited the attack on the Butterley Iron Works ?.
No.; bat the presence of mind and firmness of a
single met seer that had dissipated the whole:
ctowd of assoilarrts, With respect to the late
Trials at Derby, he had an observation to.,iymice
on one paint which gave lifll smite' pain, and
which afforded a groond for many sUppositinos-. lc
,1 ,
tlif;','((ii:sertis7eo; txiiirtilg:illioy,eti 'tttc,ia,,x't,'
trit.ll,lt:s:'::::lr,g:t(ileiiite,::::::i'll''frYtic:i sitr(anv,tr:elliitn'eaabsryeesatf.e(if)it.lfC. oileo:(‘ll:ll.:::ii)lrs,:tet..l:)t.lieel.tecbrgtyer. s°.,'lisl.ral:s.igrti:tily'e.cgi -ti,.
e
1 them from.mher Circuits, and. that they should
have been engaged, 'as it were, not to use, 'but to
neutralize. their editors, aod.deprive the Prisoners
ii;f)eirifirieye:triii(liiiNiltilliriiitnioi.4.
D.) die;
.I.l:Hei:oristilitsi:oe:litiy)4lBl.l.l;(iit.:c.'llei;itras!i,{einl7igliii:le.i.iat.lictil 'efeiipginlle;stloreetst.ociipla:e:vieoles.iit):lel,:eica,4l-(triv,isi:inlc,ilJl4.,.4l-t.:.:
procluced disenot,ne, btu oh having • tot ue<f• iii.--
slieces4.---Mr. BarroOrisr eXlqllfiell„ .7 I
- -
Sir S. RomiLLY did nut think it improp4r thiq

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