The Sun.
London, England, 1820-05-16 00:00:00

the isztist cif tits ecativey.lls which it related, lii
saying this,, he did not mean to attach anyeblatne
to the learered Lord opposite, for he had been het
a short period in-office-,7 but the fact was highly
discreditable to his predecessor and to the Mi-
nisters by whom he had been supported. 'rite
Commissioners with the
,exception of one, had
concurred in stating that five Barons in the
Court of Exchequer were unnecessary, and that
the beiiness could be easily carried on by tour
as in England. He should conclude by moving
that the House do agree with the recommen-
dation of the Commissioners on this subject.
If the House sanctioned the appointment which
had taken place, the next thing it should do should
be to save the public expence of such Commis-
sions, and to decide at onbe themselves. The
Commissioners -had not proceeded on views of
their own, but on the description given by the
Barons of the Exchequer themselvesee-of the ea-
lore of their duties, and of the time in which they
performed them. It appeared by their own ac-
count that the whole
.tine during which they sat,
(lid not exceed 6.5 or 66 days in the course of the
year, and as they did tort sit on Mondays or Sun-
days, it these days were therefore also deducted,
then there could not remain more titan two months
of labour out of the tevelce ; and they also stated,
that the average number ot petitions and memo-
rials which cumr before them was 1300 in a-year.
They sat as e Board of Treasety, but did not per-
sonally execute the ditties a ached to such a
Board. The were ice of the business devolved to
the King's Remembrances, who transferred it to
his Depety. The latter transacted and reported
upon it : the 'Report came to the Heroes, who
examined it, and expressed their approval or did-
approbation of it, when their whole tabour was
at an 'end. I hey went on no circuit—they CO9-
Ifitllled no Court of Equity open to all individuals
ati well as to the Crown--ethey took no share of the
Old Bailey Sessions, end of other varied business, as
in England, and yet five Barons were represented
as ne,essary in Scotland to perform • ditties tar I
more insignificant than those discharged by only
four here.—(tieer, bear !)-114(1 not, he should
wi•b to know, the situation of Baron of the Ex-
chever been given to the late Attorney-Genie:4l,
with a representation that it was an easy sinecure
office ? It any thing were wanted to prove this.
it Would be the tact of the Lord Commissioner of
the Jury Court having undertaken the !dens of
that office, in addition to those of one of the -Bcl-•
Ba-
rons of the Exchequer. It had been frequently
proposed to relieve the Court tit Session ot a pint
of its business, and to throw it upon the Court of
Exchequer, to give it at least the eppearAhee of
performing some duty. Why hed not this been
done ? Because the effices of lL of the Ex-
chequer had always been held ceet as metier of
patronage, and were int, odes) to ba kept as Such.
The late Lord, Chief Larou heel been in bad
health delete.; the has three years. Two of these
be bed spent eieeeet, elle on his return bad been
unable to resettle the performance of his (In-
tim, It the Lotd Chief Baron could thus
he spored for three whole years, could not a
Junior heron he now spared ?—(1-tear, hear !)
—lle bled elready steted that the Commissioners
were unanutous in their recommendation, with
the exception ot nee .voice ; now that dissentient
individual was the Person at the head of the Com-
missioners, the only one objected to, not on per-
sonal, but official greimds, at the time when the
Commission had been eti apno
I ed. For the senti-
ments of Si, Pry Campbell had long been known
on subj.-els of I hat kite!, and if it were not pos-
sible to attain unanimity, he (Lord A. Hamilton),
and all persons in Scotland, would have wished
that the dissentient individual might be Sir el"
Campbell, as he would have less weight than any
other, even though in the Chair. He then con-
tended, that the person appointed, Sir Peter Mitre
ray, was no lawyer, and had been none for twenty
years, though certainly an Advocate at the bar.
Lie had been Remembraneer to the Court, and
had transacted its business, but bad never attend-
ed Courts of Justice in any vvae connected vvith
the duties of the profession of the Law, The only
way in which he was.known in those parts was,
for having been lately a troublesome Candidate
for the County of Perth. Indeed, the best way
to secure Government patronage web to start
for a County on Ministerial principles, or first
to purchase the right of giving a vote, and next
to give it in opposition to the people. As the
opinion of the Judges had been set in opposi-
tion to that of the Commissioners, he felt him-
self hound to say something in bebatt of the lat-
ter. He then entered into a detailed examine-
tion of their fitness for the task which had
been imposed upon them, and contended that it
would be impossible to find any men better cal-
culated for the purpose. He maintained that the

paper produced by the Learned Lord as his jus-
tification, was no justification at all of the new
appointment. For what did it say ? That al-
though tour Barons would be adequate to the bu-
siness, three would be still better. He objected
to the opinion of men being brought before the
House without having been signed by them-
selves, and when they were not perhaps aware
that it would be so produced. He conceived that
the Judges, to whom the Learned Lord had ap-
pealed, were perhaps uneonsciondy biassed
against the Report of the Commissioners. The
Court of Sessions hail, in fact. been reported tip..
on, and the declaration of the Judges in Teply
showed how far the highest Authorities were in.
floenced when their own case was in question.—
In this declaration they bad stated that they were
unanimously of opinion, with the exception of
one, that it was highly inexpedient, if nut itn-
possible, to retake the transfer of duties which
the Commissioners had recommended, and " that
the present duties of a Clerk of Sessions

were sufficient to employ the ►hole time and at fen.

tion of one maS►." Now would it be believed
that amongst those overburdened individuals,
whose duties it world he inexpedient and impos-
sible to increase, as they occupied their whole
attention and time, Sir Walter Scott was the
principal Clerk of Sessi►►ns ! Had be never writ-
ten, never done any thing but what related to
the duties of his office) if it were possible to
name en individual whose time had beets employed
more differently, anal who had done so much on

other subjects that it was difficult to conceive that

be could ever !rave doue any thing ilia a Court of

Oiee, it would be Sir Wairei That ti
pe riots who had almost written more thrill any
man in the land could ;cad, should be able to
perform suet) overpoweting. duties, was really
more than could he believed. That those duties
could be of such overpowering a nature was
therefore an opinion which ought to be scooted
from the Land's-end to the Orkneys.—(Hear !)!es.
He did not think that his Majesty's Ministers
would have allowed the last appointment to take
place, if they had been aware of its nature ; for he
could not believe that they Would be felt) de se, and
nothing was more calculated to create disgust than
such proceedings. He then read some extracts
from the Report of theConsmissioners showing that
theßarons of the Exchequer had no control!! what-
ever over the charges of the Treasurer. Should
the decision of the House be in favour of the late
appointment, it would not carry conviction to
the people or to the Bar of Scotland. Such was
the opinion entertained of this transaction in that
country, that he a,jured the House to consider
deeply the vote they should give. The lime
might not be distant when this transaction would
meet him in the County of Lanark from the
tumults of those whom he was celled upon as Deputy
Lord Lieutenant to repress. How could he jus-
tify what he so sincerely disapproved ? With what
collier of consistency could he put down with the
point of she sword those whom distress drove to
madness, it the House should do these things
without compunction ? Those men, though poor
and in misery, were not dull of iiitelligence, and
their numbers were multiplied by acts like these.
—(Hear, hear !)—Bills bad been passed to pre•
vent public meetings, and he had voted partially
for them but this was a subject oo which public
meetings might be held, and it was a pity that
the people could' no longer express their senti-
ments. He concluded by moving that the House
do agree with that part of !he Report of ihe Com-
niissionets appointed to inquire into the state 'ot
the Courts of Justice in Scotland, relative to the
Cottle of Exchequer, which stated, '' that five
Barons were more than necessary, and that the
business of the Court of Exchequer might be con-
ducted with equal advionage by four, as in the
Court of Exchequer in lingland, and without add-
ing materially to their duties."
The Lorin ADVOCATE contended, that an iosti-
oe ion estebiiseed oy. a national compact, and
which had proved beneficial during the course of
a century, should not be hastily done away. if
the recommendaiion of the Report were adopted,
the alteration should be deeply considered, and
till it was resolved upon, the number of the Be-
rolls of the Excheq er should not be changed.—
It was known to toe House, that the introduc-
tion of Jury Courts was new to Scotland.—
It was introduced against the prejudices of the
people, and merely as an experiment. On that
account no new Judges had been appointed, the
former had acted in both Courts, that in case of a
failure they might remain in the situation which
they formerly held. It was wonderful how that
Court had succeeded, and its success was to be at-
tributed to the great zeal and diligence with which
its duties had been performed. The Judge had even
introduced ass Act into Parliament, which had not
produced hint arty benefit, but had considerably
added to his labours. It also happened, that
two individuals of the Jury Court were likewise
Judges of the Court of Session and of the Court
of Justiciary, where they did much business.
Ile maintained that the, report at the Commis.
sioners bad not only not been unanimous, but
thatithey had no power or right by law to decide
on the subject. He then defeeded the appoitit-
ment of Sir P. Murray, who possessed a degree
of knowledge of the Scotch law which had not
been attained by any other individual. IVith the
exception of one year which he had spent in
London, Sir P. Murray haul since 1799 dis-
charged the ditties of King's Remembrancer of
the Exchequer. He had chosen to attend that
Court as principal Reinembrancer, and his expe-
rience in that capacity had better qualified hitn
for the office of Baron-. then any law practice..
Precedents of a similar kind were to be found
both in Scotland and in England. In the for-
mer, Baron Stuart Moucrieff had been appointed
in consequence of having acted as Deputy King's
Rementhrancer, anti in the latter Bat tin Perrott
had also been made one of the Exchequer Judges
because be had for many years filled air-office in
the Court of Exchequer. By the appoint-
ment of Sir P. Murray, a considerable saving
had been effected as the office of King's Remem-
brancer ceased with 'him, and a salary equal to
half that which be received as Baum of Ex-
chequer fell in to the public. He maintained
that no pledge bad ever been given that he
appointment should not be filled up, and that
there was no foundetioit for the ridiculous
rumour that it - was intended to appoint an
additional Judge. The Act of Union which
declared that Scotland should have a Court
of Exchequer, also fixed the number of the Ba-
rons at five:—(Hear, bear !)—The Act of Queen
Anne said, that at no time the- number should be
more than five.--e(Hear, hear!)--This way of
wording the Act was necessary, for had it said
that the Court should consist of five Barons, the
death of one of its members would have rendered
the whole Court incompetent. Souse latitude of
expression way therefore allowed, but he was con-
vinced that the bitent of the framers of the Act
was, that five Barons should be appointed, as in
fact it had been done then, and ever since. In
England the people were accustomed to see the
deity performed by tour Barons, but in Scotland,
and he admitted it might be a prejudice, they pre-
ferred hailing five. Neither were their ditties as
insignificant as they had been represented. - They
had considerably increased with the increase of
the Revenue. They had to pass charters of
landS belonging to tine Ceown, besides their judi-
cial if their number should be reduced
to tour, and the two Barons should differ trout the
other two, as there was no other Court to appeal
to, no charter of land on which the electioo for
counties, as' the Noble Lord had stated, might de-
pend, could be passed. To obviate 61101 ail evil
there was no other remedy than the appormnient
which had taken place. And what was there against
these advantages ? Nothing teat the Repart of a
Parliamentary Commission, recommending iii
one sentence, that one of the Barone of the
Exchequer should be left out entitely. There

wal §ttKir,rt the Opihlons
.idnals who had named the report. Vier:
exceeded their powers, as they were directed fir
to inquire into ''the salaries, fees, and etn°l
ments of the several officers, clerks, and minisTi,
of justice." He wished to know under whicif
head it was supposed thist the Judges cone. of
the constitution of the Court and the numberbi
Judges necessary had been to he inquired into'
those Commissioners, the Judges of course Otio‘f
have been ihe first to be named, but nothinfc
the kind Was thought of, as the inquiry
tended to be similar to those instituted in I";
1093, 1732, IW, nd 178 S. On those-occ:f
sions, it could not be shown from the records
the House, that the inquiries bad ever extede,
to the Judges, or to the constitution of the Coorr
d
The Noble Lord, he remarked, might have' WI;
some of the observations which he had mode,
one venerable Judge, now advanciug to his 11111-.
tieth year. That which bat! been advanced 11',
Specting that individual he would take upon I)
self to say was illiberal—was einfounded.—(o''
of " Older, order !")
The SPEAKER said expressions had Wien fol
the Learned Lord which were integiskr, tlnt
which he thought he could not have ittrendc`

o use.
The Loan ADVOCATE was ready to make 11:1/
apology if he had expiessed himself itnpropeto';
tie, however, felt strongly thatehe iemat ks whito
had been made on the venerable person to erh"',
be bad elluded might have been spirted. '
Commissitthers, he proceeded to show, It gin.°
be ptestmed, were ill valified to give en oritri"''
on the constitution of the Court. One of !i!
had for a considerable period been retired ll'
country--another hail passed some vears-in lit
• and the third had not for a long time preetiseti yl
the Bar. These Gentlemen were pertectle
to Condnet au inc/oily into the sulAneS,
emoluments of tie Officers of the Court ; 176
from their- previous hi bits, to decide on the c"le
stitutiou of the Court itself, they were wholly tat'
-
(plalified. 'Theirittltort, therefore, ought ilot
ilaVe any mat etiai weight with the House; even ill
stood alone ; but wheti they had opposed to it 0e
.
great authority ot Sir Hay Campbell, one of 4:14
coadjutors of the. Commissioners who trained o'4l
report, together with that of the Chief Baro.ii
S. Shepherd), whose judgment it was 011110'=
impossible to .think would he other than ive:
partial, fair, and right ; they must pause hefoid
they pledged themselves to adopt the course re:f
commended in the report. lint it was hiotc.
that Ministers wished to avoid all the re„,,,lir°
which the Commissioners had suggested. IP°
was not the fact.. The first instructions whicft
,report received after their eport was made, wet P,
;
prepare Acts of Parliament founded oo it. Lass
December he had given notice of two Bills to 0,1
wave
the Court of Session afiti the Court of .4.V:
mitalty. Some delay had unavoidably occorWi
but the time had not been lost. 'The Measures i°
be proposed to Parliament had been submitted ft/
the highest Law Authmities in Scotland, and
bad now brought them up- with him with' the Or
probation of all whose opinions on such subjee'i
were valuable, and the several Reports or
Commissionets, 'where it was .practicabh. and 41c#
sirable, would be acted npon one after another Kb
fast as.possible. Wl:at they had suggested wool"
be brought before the Hou3e. A more extenst4
reduction tile's bad yet been recommended
possibly be effected, but at all events ttte subjl
would receive the fullest consideratiOn. It 104
been siiid that the •here Lord .Chief • Baron lo
beets absent for three years. This was a inistali
He had never been absent bet one year, and 11"'
always regularly attended in terns time.
Lord A. HAIVILTON end the LOU) ALVoCA.-01
severally explained.
Sir 3. NewPfinT contended, that the cono-c/
of Alioisters, with respect to the CommissiolP
ought to be viewed with the greatest jealoosy,'!P
they had objected to it at first, and delayed it ":'1
terwards for seven months, and only appoititctl''"
when a notice was given ot further proceeding`' `a
the subject in that. "loose. If ;he Noble LoC'
was correct in his argument with ,rest cut to the
powers of the Commissioners, they ought to lit/
brought to disgrace, for in that case it would or
pear they were not espial to perform the task or. •
signed to 'them, as the first thing they did was f!
mistake the pat'ore of their powers. But was.ll".
to be gravely argued five years after their uppoia!'
mew, and-after so many reports had been recei°:
ed front these Commissioners The Learoew
Lord had contended, that five Batons were re

quire(' under the articles of the Union ; but, bc,
cause the Act of Uoion said that there should 0‘?"
be more than five Barons, it was most ext-rani"
'homy that 'the Noble Lord should contend 10,
that Act would not be satisfied if fewer than fie."
were appointed. The subject ought now ill
be inquired into, and he contended fhat ti'g
situation ought and should have been keil
vacant ; for was it nothing, if, on inquiry,
should be found that the Constitutiorr of the Cotir4
might be advantageously altered,. to say here 00
another Judge to be provided for, as he most b
removed from his situation without any fault Of
his part. It was said that the Commissioner,
were unfit to conduct the inquiry on which thei,
had entered. If it were so, it should be reale°
bered that they had been appointed by his ilia:
jesty's Ministers ; but: it was never found edo
that they were improper persons till it was gee
that their Report went to touch that patroll-;
by which Scotland had .so long been governe
f
The Noble Lord had referred to the authority
Sir Campbell; but.lte, though be did not colic'
with the other Commissioners-in this Report, D;
proved of a similar inquiry with respect to tit;
Judges of England: The Learnt(' Lord o°4l.
not to make Sir 1. Campbell blow hot and c01‘11;
he ohu.ht to take the whole of his statement, if fic
relied on it at all ; for the authority of the preserd
Chief Baron be had the sincerest respect
he had the means, of forming a jad%'illeta, but
1),3
This case his decision had been- 'given, riin;,,.,
had been but N one CN 11148 CS Sion of the 01'a c
1 0
which lie now filled, The bosiness of the Corr
he contended, in opposition to the Lord Advac°e,
~,,..
bad not increased ; ant).he, tvco, the wP`f
thooght that instead of )frustrating the object "i!v oe;
the Commissioners, it would be better to dis'

lie Commissioh altogether. a•J
Lord CASTLEREAGII the N-Jble. Lor-