The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-27 00:00:00

MR. O'DRISCOLL.

Mr. ROSS wished to know whether it was true what had
been stated about the conduct of Mr. O'Dri,coll, a magistrate,
at a recent trial at Skibbereen. It was reported that that
gentleman had made use, on the bench, of the fo lowing ex-
pression—" By God. I don't understand these porularit)-hunt-
ing magistrates." If that were true, the matter ought to be
inquired into, and taking also his general conduct into con-
sideration, it would be a question whether he ought to be suf-
fered to remain any longer on the bench.
Sir THOMAS FREMANTLE said he saw an account of
what the Hon. Gentleman had alluded to, in the public news-
papers. He was not, however, prepared to give any oiificial
information on the sutject, but he would communicate with
the Lord Chancellor as to an inquiry into the matter.
Lord EBRINGTON said that Hon. Gentlemen on his side
of the House were not inclined to dispute that Mr. O'Driseoll
had on a previous occasion been very properly dismissed. The
excuse which was then given for his dismissal was, that from
the infirmities of his age, and not of his temper, he was inca-
pable of continuing his duties. He thought that dismissal
ought to have taught him a lesson to preserve a better guard
over his temper.
Dr. BOWRING would wish to know whether the negotia-
tion that had been going on between the Post-office autho-
rities of this country and Sweden, that had been for some time
discontinued, had been renewed.

Mr. CARDWELL said he was not aware that any proposi-
tion had been made for renewing the correspondence.
INSANE CRIMINALS IN SCOTLAND.
Mr. ELLICE begged to call the attention of the Right Hon.
Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department, to
the case of a person who had lately been convicted of murder
in Scotland. It appeared that the man was found to be insane,
and was acquitted of the charge of murder on that account ; but
notwithstanding that, the unhappy man had been refused ad-
mittance into any lunatic asylum, and he was now in a state of
raging madness. The Hon. Member then read a letter he had
received, stating that the man was in a dying state, yet there
was no accommodation for him in the prison in which he was
confined—namely, that of Cupar, in Fife.
Sir J. GRAHAM said he was aware that this was indeed
a melancholy case ; but, unfortunately, by the law of Scot-
land, the man could not be removed from Scotland. By the
same law, no public lunatic asylum could be compelled to take
him in, and no private one would. The man was at present in
prison, where he was to remain during the Queen's pleasure,
and could not be removed ; but all proper care should be taken
of him, and further than that he (Sir J. Graham) could not
interfere.

Mr. ELLICE could only state to the House what his in-
formant had told to him. He said that there was a ward in
the first Penitentiary in which lunativs could be received.
Mr. ESCOTT wished to put a question to the Noble Lord
(Lord Jocelyn) in relation to a case which involved great in-
dividual hardship, as well as an important general question.
He wished to ask whether any Government return had been
received from Bombay, referring to the ease of Lieutenant
Collins, who had been tried by a court-martial in that Presi-
dency, and illegally dismissed the service of the East India
Company—whether the Court of Directors and the Noble
Lord did not think that if this decision were illegal—if it were
unjust, full reparation might not be made to the individual who
had been so dismissed by this illegal sentence ?
Lord JOCELYN said that, by the last dispatches received
some weeks since, it was determined on that the case of
Lieutenant Collins should be reconsidered. The Government
had not since that time received any official information that
the subject had been so re-considered, and therefore he
was unable to satisfy the Hon. Member on the matter in
question.

Mr. COLLETT said that, before withdrawing his amend-
ment, he should wish to be assured that a House would be
made on Wednesday.—(Laughter, and " Oh, oh.") If he
were not so assured, he should press the House to a division.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no division took
place, the original motion being carried.
Mr. CHAPMAN presented a petition against certain claims
in the Merchant Seamen's Act.

Mr. S. CRAWFORD presented a petition from Liverpool
on the subject of Lord John Russell's resolutions. The peti-
tioners stated that some of the resolutions were objectionable, in-
asmuch as they had no reference to the extension of the franchise.
He begged leave to present a petition, signed by three
thousand silk handloom weavers in Middleton and its vicinity,
expressing their great distress consequent upon the want of
a law to protect their labour; and also a petition from the Pro-
testant Association of Cork, praying the House to withdraw
all support to Alaynooth College.
A petition was then presented from the Wesleyan Metho-
dists of the county of York, against the use of spirituous
liquors.
Mr. MILNER GIBSON presented a petition from the
working classes of Manchester, complaining of the want of
drainage and sewers, and praying for sanatory regulations.
Mr. FERRAND presented several petitions, having refe-
' rence to the resolutions of Lord John Russell ; one from the
delegates of artisans in Nottingham, Derby, and Leicester,
complaining of the increase of machine power, by which many
of them were thrown out of bread ; also calling the attention
of the House to the Fields Garden Bill, and praying for some
provision in it which would save them from dying in a union
workhouse. Also petitions from the inhabitants of Hartlepool,
who complained that they had been deprived of many of their
most valuable privileges, amongst others of votes in the election
of the Corporation.
CONDITION OF THE LABOURING CLASSES.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL then rose and said, Sir, I rise to
bring forward a motion of which I have given notice, and
which embraces a subject of vast extent, and one of the highest
importance. I would despair of being able to bring this
question on with any effect, were it not that the subject was one
which has occupied much of the public attention for tome
years past ; and, in bringing it forward now, 1 look for the as-
sistance of this House, in the consideration and elucidation of
those facts and opinions which have been already elicited in re-
ference to it. For my own part, I do not profess to have suffi-
cient confidence in myself to be able to deal with this subject
of such great importance as it deserves ; but I perceive, that in
regard to it, the Government are not prepared to come forward
with any proposition ; that no other Member of this House has
taken it into consideration ; and that various views and
opinions have been expressed out of doors in regard to the mea-
sures that the Legislature should deem it proper to adopt, by
which to improve the condition of the labouring classes. Sir,
I do consider it a matter of great importance, that this House
should have before it not ouly all the information that could
be got in reference to any measure which may
be proposed to be adopted for the permanent im-
provement of the condition of the labouring classes, but also
whatever you may be able to learn from the expression of the
opinions of persons who have given their attention to the ques-
tion, and the views which they may have taken of the various
plans that may from time to time have been proposed for the
approbation of the public, because while, in my view, some of
those propositions may have appeared to be sound, others may
appear to have been based upon erroneous views of what
should be beneficial for the public interest ; and therefore, if
not taken up in a determined manner, a measure may be
brought before this House that would receive general acqui-
escence for want o f a better, or it may be that such a measure
would be presented, on which a negative could nor be given
with satisfaction, or an affirmative with safety.---( Hear, hear. )
Sir, I must here say a few words more as to the intention of
this motion. Had 1 been of opinion that any such measure
would be brought forward by her Majesty's Government, I
would have taken care not to have done so , but as things stand
at present, when all legislative means of this sort must
originate with the Government—when the present Adminis-
tration has taken from this House to itself all attempts at legis-
lation, even upon minor importance, and have declared, more-
over, that whether in office or out, they will be responsible for
all measures of legislation which they may pass, affecting the
condition of the country. Under these circumstances it would
have been idle of me to have taken upon myself to bring before
this House any measure of this sort. In my view the reso-
lutions which I bring forward are closely connected together.
I am of opinion that if the Government at the present moment
wished to propose a measure useful to the country, and tending
to the improvement of the condition of the people, they should
consider all the subjects which are mentioned in these reso-
lutions. An Hon. Baronet addressed to me a question to-night,
as if he considered that these resolutions were totally separate
and distinct questions. Sir, I think it of importance that the
House should have brought before it the whole of this subject,
not only that they may consider any one measure in it which
they may think proper to adept for the Purpose of improving
the condition of the labouring classes, but also that tee may
learn, from the opportunity thus afforded, the opinions of men
of experience and weight as to the various plans which have
been from time to time proposed for the acceptation of Parlia-
ment. Whilst, in my opinion, some of those views are per-
fectly sound, and would tend to improve the condition of the
country, there are others which are founded on erroneous
principles. Upon mistaken notions of the powers of the Legis-
lature to promote the happiness of the people, and which, if in-
dulged in, would lead to consequences entirely different from
those anticipated ; my opinion in general is, that you should
endeavour to free trade from restrictions—to relieve industry
from those trammels which were chiefly placed on it by the
Legislature, but that in so doing, owing to the legislation of
the past, and owing to the present state of the country, it
would be necessary to adopt other measures accompanying those
measures for the relief of industry. And at the same time, it
is my opinion that the great subject of education and instruc-
tion ought to form a part of the deliberations of Government,
and of the measures brought before the House; and if any gen-
tleman tells me that this subject seems little connected with
those that I have mentioned in those resolutions, and that they
are separate and distinct, I beg leave to tell him why I differ from
him. I think we cannot expect that any measure proposed for
the general education of the people would be attended with
success unless we improve the physical condition of the people.
—( Isay, Sir,that I do not think that men struggling to
obtain the subsistence necessary to support life, are able or
willing to make those exertions which would be requisite for
giving an education to their children. Therefore, generally
speaking, I should say that, along with the measure for the
improvement of education—assuming that to be your object—
you should endeavour to improve the physical condition of the
people. —( Hear, hear.) And, to bring this matter into de-
tail, I hold in my hand a paper that was signed by Mr. Ash-
worth in 18e0, in which is given a table, showing the earnings
and expenditure of four different families, each consisting of a
man, his wife, and four children. In the first, the weekly
earnings %sere ss. 6d. ; in the second, 10s. 6d. ; in the third,
15s. 6d. ; in the fourth, 265. 6d. In the first case, where the
earnings were only ss, 6d., it would be found that the greater
part, in fact nearly the whole of that sum, was consumed in
providing bread, flour, oatmeal, and potatoes for these six in-
dividuals—food which was absolutely necessary for their sub-
sistence. If I look at the second case, where the earnings
are 10s. 6d., I find money expended for soap and candles,
clothing, and some further expenditure for other matters
which afford revenue to the State. If I turn to the third case,
where the earnings are 15s. 6d., I find a consumption of tea
and coffee, contributions towards a sick society, thereby show-
ing a certain degree of prudence and forethought. And when
I come to the fourth instance, where the earnings are 265. 6tl.
for six persons, I there find a further sum of 2s.
for clothing, 6,1. for education, 6d. for a sick society,
and Is. 4d. for savings._( Hear, hear.) These details show,
as appears to me, that it is only when the condition of the
labouring classes is comfortable, that you can expect prudence,
at least, the ability which enables them to follow out the dic-
tates of prudence, and the means of obtaining education for

' their children.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore, I say at once,
that if any person tells me that he thinks the subject of the
condition and subsistence of the people unconnected with their
education and instruction, my answer is—that so far from their
being unconnected, they cannot be separated, and that you
cannot take a general and comprehensive view of the situation
of the people without taking within that view both means fur
their physical comfort, and means for their religious, moral,
and literary instruction.—(Cheers. ) In looking at the con-
dition of the people, I do not wish to go over details which
must be familiar to most Members of this House, with respect
to the wages on which a great portion of the p 'stele of this
country subsist. It is well known that, in many counties in
England—in many of the agricultural counties—the
wages are not more than 7s. or Bs. a week. That has been
stated repeatedly, arid when I asked gentlemen connected with
these counties whether that is so—whether such was the
amount c f wages the labourers earned—they answered that
andJubtedly such was the fact—such is the condition of the
labouring classes in these counties.—( Hear, hear.) Now, Sir,
if that be a fact, I need not say whit privations it implies—
what evil it signifies—and what an insufficient means of pro-
viding for the comfort of the labourers. Neither need I go
icto details, in order to show that the dwellings of the labourers
in many of the counties are totally insufficient for their ac-
commodation—that families are crowded together without any
regard to the rules of decency—that many members of a
family are obliged to sleep in tee same room—and that
neither health nor comfort is consulted in the struggle which
becomes necessary, in order to retain a room for which
they can afford to pay.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") But,
Sir, there are general considerations which, it appears to me,
we ought to take into account, and which involve a retro-
spect for a very considerable period of time. I am now, there-
fore, going to trace the changes which took place in a long
course of years ; going back to periods of the last century be-
fore the French Revolution. At that time we had a debt
of about 250,000,0001., and between 14,000,0001. and
15,000,000/. was the sum then necessary for the interest of
that debt and other expenses. There was then a poor-
rate amounting to 12,500,000/., and the practice of pay-
ing the allowance to labourers out of the poor-rate, was then
altogether unknown to this country. In the course of the war
which England carried on in 1793, various changes took place
—changes, in my opinion, much for the worse, as regards the
situation of the people—changes, the effects of which, 'think,
we are still suffering under, and which have, from time
to time, been brought under the notice of this House.
In the first place, we have an immense increase
of our debt, and a proportionate increase of our taxation.
That increase of debt was, in my mind, made in the most ex-
travagant manner. Many of the loans were contracted in such a
manner that more than 6 per rent. was paid for interest, and
that not reducible, but remaining to the future. Sums were
burrowed in the Three per Cents., as in 1797, when 2001. was
given, besides other advantages, to the lender of 1001. So
that it appeared, by the table at the end of Mr, M'Culloch's
late work on taxation (the last edition), that the sum of
400,000,000/., which we borrowed during the war, entailed
upon us the interest of a debt of more than 21,000,000/.—thus
obliging us to pay more than 5 per cent. interest. When, in
the beginning of the last century, debts were contracted in
times of war, the interest which was necessarily engaged to be
paid at the time and subsequently was capable of reduction,
so that Sir Robert Walpole (during the long peace, begun in
1713), during his administration, was able to reduce the
interest on the debt, by about half the total of the
amount which it was at the end of the war. That course has
not been possible with any Ministry of this country, considering
the mode in which the debt of the last war was contracted.
We have, therefore, in crensidering the taxation, to recollect
that the payment of the interest on this debt is guaranteed by
public faith, and that it is out of our power to alter it. The
whole amount to which we could alter the expenditure consists
between the amplest and the most narrow expenditure consist-
ent with a peace establishment, which is about 3,000,000/.
( Hear.) At the same time, in speaking of the subject of taxa-
tion, I think I should not omit to state that we have been able
from time to time to abolish or diminish taxes which were laid
on the necessaries of life ; such as the tax on leather, salt, and
candles, which have been entirely done away with. If any one
will look at the complaints of the weight of taxation
in the last century, they will see that tax (the
interest of the debt) pointed out as a tax most
injurious to the interests of the country. Still the power
which we have in one way or another, whether by direct or
indirect taxation, to bear this great amount of interest for the
debt was an obligation from which we could not escape, and
any one who examines the proposal made by the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Government this year for this com-
mutation of taxation—a relief of taxation by taking it from
those things upon which it presses with the greatest severity
and imposing it on those things which he and the House con-
sidered would be less felt—a change by which it was believed
taxation would press less heavily on the industry and resources
of the country. Another subject upon which great alterations
have been made is that of currency, alluding to which the
Right Hen. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) last year called it the fatal
measure of 1797. The tendency of that measure was greatly
to degrade the labouring classes.—( Hear, hear.)
I say, the tendency of that measure went to diminish the wages
of labour. These wages were neither increased in proportion
to the rise which took place, nor to the rise which occurred in
the value of money. At the same time that depression of the
general currency of the country led to effects which such de-
pressi tr, has always produced—that extravagant mode of living
—that sudden employment of high profits—that neglect of
frugality and vigilance which those engaged in agriculture or
in trade practise in ordinary times, and which neglect and
exitement produce lasting evils in the country. I do not see
that in this respect we can make any great change in the con-
dition of the labourer—at least to his advantage. I believe
that the measure proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman in
1819, and the Bill proposed last year, are founded on sound
principles, and without discussing what was their necessity or
their adaptation to the particular time in which they were
brought forward, I believe it would be the greatest misfor-
tune if the House would endeavour to depart materially from
the principles sanctioned by those measuresr At the same
time I think we must always remember that these measures in
themselves produce their evils—that they have disadvantages
accompanying them—that they produced a contracted cur-
rency which followed the measure of 1819, and at the time
created great evils, amongst others injury to the industrious
classes which lasted for a considerable time. But now, Sir, I
come to another subject upon which I think Parliament may
legislate, and with benefit—to overturn as they have
the enormous currency legislation of the war period—l alludef
to the policy of restriction and monopoly. If any one speaks of
that policy—of the policy of monopoly and restriction, or, as ie
is flatteringly termed, " protection to native industry," he
speaks of it as of an ancient establishment, as a matter becom_
interwoven with the laws of the country, and therefore ex
tremely difficult to touch. But, Sir, let us go a little further,
and look at what has been actually the case. We shall find that
the chief monopoly or restriction which now exists was intro-
duced by men who are still living—by persons who are still in
Parliament—by those who, although not now in the direction
of public affairs, still remain among us, and whose acts we must
therefore consider as the acts of our own time. I allude to the
system of restriction and monopoly, which was, in the time of
Adam Smith, called the mercantile system ; and Adam Smith,
in speaking of the restriction introduced by the corn-laws, says
he believes that those restrictions in favour of the monopoly
of particular trades were introduced by persons who
were used to the narrow spirit of corporations—that from cor-
porations it became common to traders, and was by them
adopted in the Legislature of the country—that the country
gentlemen, whose nature was, generally speaking, generous,
and alien to such partial restrictions, were induced to adopt
this policy, of little value to them, but supposed to be bene-
ficial, because it was so considered by the manufacturer and the
merchant. Adam Smith might be, and no doubt was, relating
what was conformable to the experience of his own time, but
the experience of our time has brought us to an entirely dif-
ferent state.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) We have
a vast export of manufactures, amounting. perhaps, to
50,000,000/. ; our manufacturers sell their goods at all the
markets of the world ; but they consider monopoly and re-
striction is of no use to them, and they are willing to admit
the imports of every country on the same terms as they desire
their own to be received in foreign countries.—( Hear.) They
therefore, have adopted generally, with a few exceptions, the
theory which Adam Smith and his followers proposed, and
which all the political economists adopted—that restriction is
mischievous—that it is unwise to favour one class at the ex-
pense of another, and that such policy is injurious to the
labouring classes, above all the classes in the community.
Well, Sir, if such be the case, let us look at the history of some
of those restrictions. I will look at one which has relation
to timber. ( The Noble Lord then quitted extracts from
M'Culloch's Commercial Dictionary, and other books, to show
that with a restrictive policy our imports of timber had been
greatly diminished, and that trade had been thereby
seriously injnred, and the same argument applied
to wool, against restrictions upon which, the
merchants of London petitioned the Legislature in 1828. )
1 he present Earl Fitawilliam had said such a course would be
going back to barbarism. Sir Mathew Ridley said he saw
total ruin to the manufacturer in the proposed measure, and in
the other House the Duke of Richmond proposed that a Com-
mittee should be appointed to inquire into the matter. Many
considered that this system of only Id per pound duty would
cause the entire destruction of the interests of all engaged in
the trade. In the report of the Committee of which Lord
Malmefbury was chairman, itswas stated there was a great de-
ficiency in the import of :foreign wool which was truly alarming.
Such was the view that those gentlemen entertained of a high
import duty on foreign wool. From the benefit which re-
sulted to the English wool-grower, it was highly desirable that
foreign wool should be admitted, for there were many articles
of English manufacture into which nothing but foreign w0,.1
could be introduced. In the course of the last year the duty had
been increased, but on the motion of his Hon. Friend the
Member for Halifax the whole duty had been taken off, and
the result hail been a much greater consumption of wool.
The woollen manufactures exported during the first eight
months of this year greatly exceeded the quantity exported
last year, and the British wool grower obtained a better prise
for his articles. I mention this as one of many instances of
the beneficial effects arising from the abolition of high duties
of late years, and it is an instance of the proposition which
I am desirous of maintaining, via., that those laws which
operated in restricting labour would impose on the people un-
necessary taxes. I think that proposition on general prin-
ciples cannot be disputed. It is impossible to deny, that if
a duty caused a higher price on what the people wanted to
buy it necessarily imposed a duty on their labour. If they
imposed those duties the poor man was less able to purchase
clothes and food, and to educate his children, and was most
likely to be dissatisfied with his condition. There is an opinion
which is still prevalent among a considerable party in this
country who maintain that it is right to give protection to certain
articles, and that it is right to protect the industry of the
country. On the other hand, it was contended that all re-
strictions of a protective nature should be abolished. I think
it necessary that one or the other of these opinions should be
acted on, or let us imitate Mr. Vansittart in the expression of
his policy that protection should be given to every branch of in-
dustry, or abandon the principle as false and unsound. For my
own part, I hold it as false and unsound. I should be sorry to
enter into an argument on the subject, as it has been proved so
by the greatest writers on the subject ; and it is, moreover,
a matter on which, as an abstract question, Parliament has no
right to interfere. I do not think Parliament should say you
mist go to the cheapest market, any more than they should
tell you to go to the dearest ; but every man ought to be in
a condition to go to thet market which he liked best—( Hear,
hear)—and, if there was any obstacle to prevent him, let the
Legislature interfere ; but if it was his wish to exchange his
labour or his pro.'.uctions in any market for the advantage of
himself and family, what business had the Legislature to in-
terfere and say you shall not make that exchange—you shall
not go to any person in a foreign country and make that
exchange you shall not dispose of the produce of
your own labour in what way you please? But this
Is not only an abstract theory, which is perfectly unsound in
itself, but it is opposed to the common sense of mankind ; and
it is a theory on which many mistakes have arisen. The
Ministry, in 1842, proposed a great alteration on the subject.
They were alterations in many articles immediately connected
with the produce of the manual labourers of this country. But
these alterations were made in a totally different manor, with
respect to some of these persons, and with regard to others.
There were many per sons greatly offended at the great extent
to which they carried their measures. I, myself, as a Member
for the City of London, knew of many individuals who were in
a frenzy at the prospect of their trade being reduced. There
were the rope-makers, who said that the ropes would be made
in Russia, if a low duty were put upon the raw material. There
were the corkcutters, the boot and shoemakers, who were all
much inflamed at, the free-trade plans introduced by the
Right Honourable Baronet. There were men who were
earning a certain amount, averaging from 15a. to 255. per

week, and who were therefore in a state of:ill1;i; and se7itli,
One of them told me he was skilled as rn. eh as any man, 'hit,.
trade, but wi;li all his exertions he was only able to proaine auch
self with meat for dinner during one day in the week' had
was the case of the persons affected by the measure that
been introduced. I will say, that to introduce changes
ea a
these men was hardly fair, unless you introduced measure
class,o
corresponding nature among the members of another
with
who were represented by Peers of noble descent, covered
eels
honours, having gr at weight both in arid our of Parlam
and who were most powerful to resist the alteration. I has: the
opinion of Adam Smith as my authority, who stated the
would include one party within the same law of restriction
30't
the other. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the late Preadei,nt
the Board of Traci., has shown the effect cf these reanrdie na
Iwill
as far as our own manufactures were concerned ; a ho
take out of his book some instances, which will show ,
little alarm was to be experienced, when it was most expiaital
The article of bonnets produced 13,0001. in 1840, and in 'art
and 1844 this amount was reduced to 12,0001. With seslaw
to cork, a duty of 7s. per pound had been imposed on 700
factured corks. The dut was reduced to 10s. per Pofaaetured
the wood, and to Is. 'per pound on the manu
_aa
corks. The amount of cork had been au,gmented,
ma-
only 2} per cent., •in proportion to the ras' The
terial, was introduced in a manufactured state.
where
Noble Lord instanced a few other articles, which, aora
the duty was high, bad been diminished in consurneitrites,
and where, on the contrary, tire duty was small, a etitnual
yowling increase had taken place. These returns, con
a_ for
the Noble Lcrd, show how very little reason there,
a Tt then
the manufacturers to be alarmed at the changes wateracturrd
took place. This showed with respect to all menu forriau
articles, that we were able to stand in competition with
ae 401
nations, and that nothing was to be dreaded from °a:natio.
fab
which foreign manufacturers might exhibit in their 'a
be' en re"
With respect to foreign manufactures, the duties hod s aro
duced to a great extent. The bootmakers and ropernaker
uld be
not much considered when it was announced that they aed the
totally ruined. The right principle remained to be aru`h.e toms
duties were reduced within that reasonable compass,' a, if this
petition could enter the field against thorn. I via, tn,e,nain that
principle is right—if it is right to reduce duties within /IN"
compass—let us abandon altogether the principle
tective system, and reduce all duties within that aomraf oar
acting upon this principle with respect to any article °with re"
facture, if you do not propose to abolish preaection
to what
spect to one article, you will be in a similar positir if thet
you were placed in with regard to the tariff of 184=_t it is aa
tariff imposes a dut of 20 per cent. I maintain that
extravagant tax. 'I
consider that the principle is '','eaasia-
false, and we should abandon it as a useless problens ansjo ;orb
tion. I now come to that great question upon whienthe
discussion has taken place in the country—l re.er to
an during
„her
tion of the corn-laws. As I have adverted on this aen awing
subjects--an the striking changes that had taken plaseten the
this session of Parliament—l will advert to what ha lot eel).
policy of the country with respect to them during the last ceo"
tury. There was, as Adam Smith says, a duty in the as during
tury against the importation of foreign corn ; hut', 00
the gr eater part of that century this Was an exporti%e
of eoraett
the people had no great advantage of the lowest rsraet ; las
as the corn sent to foreign parts found the best ma s, of
towards the latter end of the century, wills the incr.° artatienei
population, it was found necessary to prohibit that elsPcould
If they had acted on sounder principles that course instead:,
have been adopted. When we became an importing
et the ertrie
an exporting country, it was considered necessary tti
reapoab ss
laws should be revised, and to preserveour interests atop all
protection should be given to corn, The protection ; aeon
tended to 48s. per quarter, and consisted of a high dakt
corn under that price. In 1791 another chart" tee„saoo, thit
Mr. Pat said, in the course of the debate on trbe auscivarter,ibe
if a protective duty was put on corn up to 50st Nailed °star
would be quite sufficient ; but other opinions Pre" it 05'0a
time, and the protection was carried up to f 4s• Such a ae
and that was in effect a prohibitory duty. ria let asthe
as this is quite different from the present systen",3;ar On; the
how the change took place. During the time an -arid at tae"
years of scarcity, corn rose to a very high Price" City ae eta
same time the currency becoming depreciatataoaratills:.etdpeelfo,orceia.t,e;::
and
dn declaredthey p re,
aithatled theon 545.,A1r.
Fiwiatst,noitnaiot, sufficient 111,ae eeteaeo
which protection should cease. In 1815, whe°a that in'osa
was carried to its greatest extent, it was proPa'e
Pro of 545., which was the utmost price to Which,_l?. pro'''. e'
extended, that 80s. should be the price at said' ache he the
should commence. I consider that although it Inoatstiee.97.
cessary to check for a time the sudden flood of Oro, of °the
introduction of that law was as fatal as the men from his
—( Hear. ) We have been suffering ever fined that ass
effects of that law. Many years it was consieeroef it e,
law was not sufficient. The effect of the price tool; I,
jabot
net liked, and another alteration of the whale aid° be
which it was not necessary to refer to, in IStlatiahad thetaere
scheme of corn legislation was proposed, %%hi" tbat t the
authority of Mr. Huskisson. The proposition Wai'oo, ba rice
should be a high duty imposed when corn was a a, the Piot
duty was to be gradually diminished in proportiaaabie °nova
was increased. I thought it was somewhat desaltbe agora
head. Mr. Canning said, on the introduction °I iy of
~t
that at certain times there was a too plentiful suPtiiie o'as/it
and at other times we had been suffering from O.OOIP and
importation, and he proposed this measure, as ltd priee'that
itself to the pr o
ice f corn, and tend to give a I etted
would consult the interest of all parties concerne tra supa
it was a plausible scheme ; and for my own Faro rathertiors
the Bill ; and altogether my opininn, erienceard la
favour of the fixed price. We have hao e 5 foun or
and I think it has been shown that the systeua lea
.00e
rraicethere are -05
error, and that it failed in giving a stated
posing the general principle is correct, or t
t" eorn, it wagt d
to
particular reasons for imposing duties upon
than the
tea
ot, ctalcelateeaYs'
evident that the gradual or sliding scale was not
Presca Parr
tom, the desired effect. It was obsaous that
entire trade t_oe ftif
tern, as now carried on in corn, made the
take more of the character of a hoursgamblingad ffered .104
dealings of honest merchants, and
losses in their speculations ; and
fact within the last few years. Acßristol (alr. 3111e4yt,
moved for by the Hon. Alember for
s altered by the ot,
appears that the operation of the taw, a
stv's Governine-thog
wse°enraqdalt
neg.xlsteri etnbeee reatanit
Hon. Baronet at the head of her alajt
much the same as the law of 1828. antita ° trae#'
papers that since 1840 as before, the galffereetso tbe
It was shown l'Yf 04°
introduced was greatly increased at s. ea in
especially during the three harvest inont,carodues the
year 1840 the number of quarters of cs.heat ' orter,
the first six months of the year was 876,87?5%79°,,itc'
quantity during the three harvest months was "a. of el' Ie
la-9, during the first six months, which was a Yaeasaaattresa
2,750,969 quarters ; the three harvest months "'three 'aai the
1842 in the first six months 305,000; in the dead as ale
months 2,663,160. Thus showing that the ten,ea {tea the
law was to induce speculators to hold back till to/ frcatisa
produce of the harvest, in order to derive a hen„ee of the:lo
great rise in price. In the last year the experiernaare
was remarkable. In the last ear the price 01_ to irl"reta::
high, sufficiently high enough to enable personant at
it into the country in any large anrn of
nerating prices. In February the Priceeiearedt
was 535. 3d. per quarter, and the quantity &earl:lair/4
quarters ; in Alarch, 565. 3d., the quantitY_taared,
set 'se
quarters ; and in July, 545., the quantityt.a'censaa„ tie
quarters. The only system that can benefit neata ratis at
lead to a stability in the law, will be such as Thaoai, be
price from 565. to 645. and 665, per quarto of of evoce:t
only sufficient price to allow for the import: 'the ellerratieas
less than that will stop and arrest it. I ha c_ reporte datrtrbe
an assistant poor-law commissioner, who, ine at hat tile 0 f
the time of the bad harvest, in 1838, declar pri
tiog gin
then existing was much aggravated by the alat. operaea,
• stead py the'
corn, and that a lower rate of price, in- of .00
juriously, would hare much benefited tn,' brioa &art' a
,ana ureater dditi°lllr enabling them to improve the wages
labourers, or inducing farmers to einf""Y at, in a, the pia'
in the cultivation of their lands. This repeas,e tba'ai Past
the other evidence I have adduced, goes to Preiaataerco)
sent law is opposed not only to all correct_ybeethis
ciplas, but to the interests of the fartnersaaoets out it not
I will put another question to the House. Psrlr,
(fence suggest to you that protection is an ev_erit
lead you to behold in it a check to improve:l'oa ipp!elc,
ture, and an enemy to both landowrrrtsore as aane reetei.
(Cheers ) I may refer to the silk mantaac
under ',noel ter;
Lion of the influence of monopoly. Winlehe oiseachsrae ars
five system during a century and a-latlft „sect
seal
ring
ployel was of the most inefficient and idOPkept pe'oetaoloot
now, under an improved system, lt 11a of 01he
respect with all tae other great ranetaesrniet.
toke
Ivo
industry. So is it with respect to the I,ad to
to/tali:ere'
of protection given him only tenalsehe way s t 100
an imperfect, slovenly, agriculturist, and %ling. waitbert°ooo
skilful and successful in his important cat e „ad h
_eat ass
moval ,if that restrictive system on whichlincae
tScgit the 'art,
for support. I hold in my hand the eaulae ogee tiaivet'Pd
who made a motion in this House in 183'as, all'
a the Ir
tisties of the country. That gentleman yaotirovo
snierle ara
who said that he had taken great pains to a' that foif oak part
his possessiorr, and out of a quantity of lan°
nonce re tic
500/ a year, he received 800/., in conseaety that ' ear
provements. That gentleman further srat. a stated bola 5.10;
of England was covered with weeds, and. Toro, sehe
that the leases were fenced in with rester'e of tat
bars, so as to interfere with the free enerfeJ atitheisodesesnit
)
that the land was generally occupied by !,enaannd tbefieto,:eree
men careless how they treated the '
rents'(beadu(ebbsl4l
were indifferent so long as they got their
aaht to. . or
To advance agriculture in the way it nuaatareat core, are
is rata
cps ,e
a union of caital, skill, and labour, , he re-
a, to ad
been already dons in manufactures, and if the staa'aolta,e,so,,
one
can employed.
known to all, so will it be in farming,
similar 'aecl
doubtS Similar
atrh causesthat if foreign willgPrro°wd u's
were aloud kill e>3`
re` rte
their produce into this country, it sharpen The P
into our agricultural system. It Wilt cheers.) astera'aid at
energy, and enlarge our capabilities•--( .a the saace, ttire
time is most propitious for a change
tia"ken Poirot,
,a
commutation of tithes had lately landed in stateskill.
rs
considerable burden taken from off the, a a proPe!se of aepiete,
now there was every opportunity and
the eaerclaaa Octet ',a
• 1 and tn
law for the employment of capital and
avail tta ss4t
of land were not satisfied with the Prottsw "ioup t
onatals
( Hear, hear.) It was complained thate_eent systaeeir beeatebere,
them abandon protection, and theY, ac be open: rich ed aaot,
the improved markets which woulal being tn,incf, 311000 ot
They would find their advantage re flanri'j ;Pr' )
where commerce and manufactures:
_aes for ecause, ees%
employers being enabled to pay bett waa
la thee' Titase.s'twouldere
improved facilities given them, tannitara leaf og.. eSe des
increase in the consumation of agraca c: vra
But it was said that if corn were made supposingt. real oleo
reduced. 'faking this fact for granted,i; as atticeet as titatit
were not reduced in relation to tne
t impetus tha,o the tat beef,
reduced to a certain amount, sti,_ll,..sroiel:o7 prtorlwoohisho. Beo
1 tage eemploymentsaind by the grea the chap?" lA, a grarei t° ccwsll
to the of labour by
not reaucsana idar the
it', on the ether hand, wages were in enablt,'"o e Lora .0
would at once be given to the artisan
life; a
an jf
Noble j'adoe"
mart an increase of the comforts 01 , The _
benefitects .
at tae plea' ..nr
the labouring classes would be id tn
the co
,e
President of the Board of Trade 11 bent efit ° wee° t° of e° e 0
of 50,000 head of cattle was a distinctiongr bet estate,. Ote,
this be so, then I cannot see any
nmilio qui, hrgatalle
tation of 50,000 head of cattle. a
ilr,ata of corenniasses ;Otto
We do not find that when the Ithiu'operativt,
swan a tall
correspond with it, as many °to the subjeaeas giv.eeh I oe
A Mr. Dent, aho had written wive, not ashaons abst
that was theoretical and sinacnof Corn, frealeulante to taro
of wages in relation to the p e
t ricouse. Th, egiulat fora el('
read a few extracts to toe 0 stosoan, vibes
pase
made from 1792. and grounclediup _
aeeasreftts.
0.1(7.11
made by Air. Malthus, of allofwant ,
rer - jts lituje 14,
per quarter-ss. onialtelo
arid toe price at bread 82s• aae of wheat 6d., beiOg 10
_are
wlaebroeurfer,ri.in In 1795
ttohel wage}
heat
535.
is.
age,
wages were 9s. 6d., Price
highest
465• ‘2`l' es were in
wages were 10s., and when in aa4l wag
of gra, s,
10s., and wheat 665. 4d.; aS a „rice
less in wages than the
is
of 0,,e0r0ti0..0
° averageittiThaao °lap pill
will show that the
tn.... tiaras ranef ;alp e
now proceed to show the proh te
ht it will hat all bee the
Imy belief t ha
hero 0
(:11aT,_
efients
netittehe';a;ttoensugla:tfliit
faacr,imgripactorirend. by
It
corresps °many
excess of importation a think, bit teen ow
so it n aaltilinaa the A ye
prate of corn may not be highestirove_ in trod' ationct`shotaTiere
twill lead to a general I
for In
labour, 3 d so Vdha '605 ,and
'and,With regalos proPasilog Prod;
rests of all parties concerned'
law,
cart()
in bring s
re
if
adopted instead of the presente the 1-Ine to er°l)°'elitataieb
been brought forward bean..
not so much
courarY• ast
improve the demand
d.
ondaron no
as to state the true c
_e, it Won
my resolutims my object is of the that
were called upon to propose on

r-.

_______,_. ......-
proposed in 1840. Yet still it would be a fixed duty. In
1840 proposed a fixed duty of Bs. per quarter. That is more
than I would now propose. I would prefer at present 45., 55.,
as te
Per'erbe6st.r uarter, as preferable to what I then proposed,
and
in the present
state of affairs, than a total repeal of
the whole dety as some oth• r parties proposed. Another pro-
Position is to impose a sliding duty of 10s. or Bs. gradually
going
Position down to a shilling. Now in comparing these two pro-
s my opinion isdecidedly its favour of a fixed duty,
because I consider a sliding scale necessarily entails a change
If
tyhe
carrnourat of duty and of price every. year —( Hear, hear. )
rA.__tvwa e asked whether I consider it
adesirable to have any
;ati,v,lain corn at all i should say, as an
from
b raet Principle' No;
ttlat
ellltsn,:reautyhe iejury likely to accrue o the sudden ;with-
long. established custom, however perniciitouass
may have been. It may be said, " If you regard
an evil, why will you not Consent-to its.removal?" But thus
ie ire 1., -
t gut also be inquired respecting a man who, during a pro-
;:-fatted life, has bn accustomed to stimulating diet ; no phy •
!iatnotl°uld advise an immediate change of diet, or prescribe
lis abstinence from the reeimen, however deleterious.
le hist light that I regard the present restrictions imposed
On
,Tern: and yet that there will come a time, as has already
it'll --''' 'or wool, when a total abrogation of duty will be Lund
-1-:lievitabie and accorded 1 for one entertain no doubt
nile, though I look upo' n such. a course at the present time as
pretnattir e, and its success equivocal, I think I do but consult
athre best interests of the country in proposing that chie
said My resolutions —.‘ That this House will take the
etatodtv.eaws into cOnsideration, with a view to such
hen ,ees and deliberate arrangement as may be meet
1 egeial to all classes of her Majesty's subjects."
now arrive at the next question vaiieh I consider materially
isteel,'ng the condition of the labouring classes of this country,u_
•me, In the words of my motion, I assert "that the freedom of
14strY would be promoted bya careful revision of the law 0,,
i•o.,:hial settlement which now prevails in England and Wales toZleg the war the system whereby the labourer was assistedui-
eiatiisipoverty, or remunerated for hie work, was most per
ixatr2 as the war continued the price of corn rose, and the
Pursued was to distribute the. effects of the high price
tilovaer. the tineene family, instead of increasing thed wages, and
and for. In
ih,zmore lur was employed than there was em .
al-
stem
that
e 'Nem was altered, and it has been said that the
att% eras injurious, but I w' ill avow my opinion, that if thatwould
441:i had been continued, the labourers of England _ wet:mil
tit
pai
reen reduced to pauperism, while the foccd and
them
cur Y charity of the poor-rate would have scarce,Y
guidenr the
PreseeTeans 0f subsistence, instead
of
' aas theun ewhole-
holue'"_,
a 3 stern,
charity being
9t4Plovien-sPe of. wages under tghievensuptenrintendence of
have 2_ r • I will again all to an authority from which I
hv urgiere than once quoted to-night. In a report drawn up
ge." • Tffnell, respectin the working of the poor-lawhi t
tthiiioat,e,...vwo,uittliit vuofhwitah.,l:: was long officially connected, 1 find t
the
paid in that neighbourhood, during
Wes netts Preceding the establishment of the ion
If
lull
bee,
'h, and for the two years succeed.ng, 810.1. 1 such
a tale,
lzi te wholesome effect of the poor-laws, is. it not ,
laboererisrePresentation to hold up that law as injurious c,i
211._
(Rear, itwhile in reality nothing could be mere bene csiasiu.,,
that law ear.) It is now a little more than teeacrhildren
eth° ree;ea'.e amended, came into operation. . The
em
~oy..
inent have "'en in a state requiring no immediate I
taeately e now grovvn up—they seek for labour,
ti
ipiteir-iii,lll.4ot,,aurit.i.fiucial state of labour which risecharact. four
ago, still inflicts its disas-
-0;o: col:18,440' "cLeie tau a few
yearsgrctalture, our manufactures, and
le:hi:viler araade alterations, but it is not suffi-
netoese4thtniZlii'ci•berere:iteeed
p, Your poor laws, it is not suffic ent that you
Measures
must erinciplesof that law; temporary and alleviating
ties of 4141 -- we It •
-ougOt must be adopted, to meet the exig,en-
(lentleroaPerabundant la:lnsur.—( Hear. ) The Right H__mc.
Partaleat rihsPPosite, the Secretary of State for the Home p -
the pr '• 55 undertaken to introduce a measure, admitting
tbknsfe°,Peitsilstirlthat it was a hardship that a man could not
at, while ',Jour to a locality where demand was greater
aye ),,ar
.'"eriting to this, he does not agree or propose thatt.
(Flea what 3 rtantlioltrious employment should give a settlement ,
r, hear.) be More rational, more equitable, more just ?
Woreio And what is the working, or the effect of the
ries frog_of the present law of settlement ? A young map mare
state ~L_Q the agricaural districts, he settles as an artizan
_s
sleit,c,tuatrivafactering town, gives the district the benefit o h i tome stui, fter ten or twelve years of thriving industry, by
Zirie "en panic in trade,he is deprived of work—he seeks
ile, Arnsoloif iernpora.ry susistnce from the Union, but is
tated n, ust go back to the town whence you originally Abet ass seek that relief we cannot afford you her .
(I°46t!uch Ystern is fraught with evils no one can surely
re'lnel evre
l'etd Jet,"°D.---Hear, hear.
e,fers that 'IN RUSSELL—The Hon. Member for Brecon lewd expression. He proposes that one year's residence. iod re a settement.; 1, however, do not think that a lels-
'litls 44 five years be advisable to establish as aru e.
far tregard to lesser periods of two or one years, if a relief_
,ejrillnedPofoarry .votress were required, it might be beneficially
I°4 r-• . a rnonths, even should not tip applicant. bel.o.f.
qehtiti.ioence in the town, because a great hardship I c
nddeniy cepsaled
artisan,
on a poor man engaged. as an ar
N4illiwnter but temporarily distressed, being sent back to,
eet place of residence, where, losing all employment or
eg all
eniPloyment he becomes a pauper, and eventually
whet, Moral elevation of character ceases for ever to be,
eher_i oder due care he might still have'remained—a good and
heulnlenaber of societ (Hear, hear.) I now pass to the
Plku oetanell of eny series of resolutions—" That a systematic
celp.r colonisation would partly relieve those districts of the
tkiettiy. where the deficiency of employment has been
1443 t° th4urieus to the labourers in huebandry." In adverting
question, difficult and delicate as I admit
:it to be,
%eh, blade my allusion cautiouely, because I conceive thate
noly be °' emigration too extensive, or compulsory, would. not
,that a
"advni_sable, but dangerous. Nevertheiess I consider
kik. °Qunt
--, eta tart' system, carried out with caturtionanadndthbeeneem7:
IN. Ibe made beneficial to the country
Nth r I have been told by
se that the
effeet 'Resented th tof Kent in this Hou ,
i.
_OO.
ti,_ itt hi„
.. e coun y Mr. Hedges, who for many
°dill
... of tees Parish, of voluntary emigration, has been p.
, happiness to
wastl
Zeci: he k_sgN'eatest advantage tcoultuteiedsisturfict, and by lute
_t;
Z.rt6
1,4704 r ived
it. The
price for labour in Canada h
embraced it.
140 g•
4 44
h bitants speak the
eae, cite ~ Y, and in est Canada 83. a. nd upwards. Wen
erni-ge 1 this go to arc ountry whose in a
seeltri4tillh'utl.ageand are characterised by the same habits, the
b„:equi Irs Positively advantageous.to them. ; But great care
thL'• std In the safe working of this system for you must
--"ltr,ao:.ti.ts emigrants men who are unable to bear extreme
must )out - ‘oe Privations to which they are too often subject ; nor
Itl4rtie hit%stem be that of indiscriminate assimilation between
yintshi,L,lrtf:_unkilown. They should go out, not only
aanc-
I 0,1,1?" glee rlected with each other. Inectehea arm
off
,•roev ,4"ae officers who choose to 1 theyll.
gratds
and '64 certain favourable terms. Let your eau-
Thent, and in °flit under th
They will a seen a transa 950 as head, and by that arrange-
Produce i ceept yallr ho
d send you their
etion all apartiesevi I be the gainers.
eritieh 1 0 returo,__(Hree Manufactures, an
next net shall advert •
now enter ear, heir.) The 9uestionwtiol
is, the important one of education. I i
eovasatsii,neterests,aaritdiefFael. into a subject connected with such
educ:tiea: That h
eaten •° - the peo demands such anxious and
maderotirnactthede
a great advance has been
edit ain a daub.. Preyurig these last few years: one can
tainatotactit; ious te that it was considered that
,Whatsart_general and useful, but an
notinquiry
she
_. religious ", proved it nominal, and
tothe
in,livaracter and i instruction which would: tend elevate
ie uia a late re mprove the social condition of the people. I
oauti;deufefrtehrieee
toPtohretit?f tape British and Foreign School Society,
: gaol returns, that in some counties one;
IY fuse • P°Pidation was unable to, read • in Devon, out of 6
and jecould either read or %lite, in denbighshiiressoneN-huawlf:
Sir ti,' ether count.
either the population was even ie.
..
41;1 i."e are eta,
If ' °tit it e_ eillents made in regard to counties in Eng-
it te to
bead,reaY be said that although these prisoners are un-
Cli_lnay
_yet religious instruction has been given to tham.
from :lei:" that they have received such oral uommunita-
knit', fro gYrilen in the gaols, and other ministers of the
zittlis..4eombeersitanlnldrs.itekarittles and fr *g, 1b rs that they cannot be
o' f ignoormannceeti- Ind°, I 'must confe.ss that I
reli Prevaieu,`":(4e, among whom reading and writing may
ha tents and ‘ln3hert who, if such pains were taken to teach
ihe
Etid 0 be a
far
fral truths, might, in point of _ learning,a
find, i°ese, Was th ein unins,ructed people. What, I
(my, t
Pe coin the sarn e ease in Sussex. some short time a,, .
hi es i„ . e return 1 have already quoted, that out of 171.
fee
eintie, il,ii jorddluid not know the Saviour's name; 24 knew his
thai tled ar, • more l and only 6 out of the whole number had
It!..e r ,vv._ y instruction. Some indeed of them had been, by
th2vtat: ,acknowledgment, at places of worship, but when.
ro4W, sirnuid all was darkness and confusion to their minds.
eeli,b'eillgcloufsay, that when you take measures to promote
krti 1 ItlY rest', :tne people _where you take measures ,
0_
to re-
itistaetoes riecessaire_tio,n which may press upon the introduction 1
rs, ~,‘...
~,Y for food-4 say that as Christians„and as le.
tliZatsce."`;., should not shut your eyes to this gross state of
to e are
e 4.10 not forget that while, in this month of May,
41 %Aside,. xcellent and pious men' meeting day after day,
the „ilie sr;°l2l Bums they shall distribute in China,
thaCotiore' Sea Islands, and in A frica, fort
tu lin she
„of the Christian faith--do not, I repeat, forgcu
44,4nd, a "tY of Sussex, and in every other county i
Ithir erizeitwiir.e.tached number of persons, who have felt the lash
e doul: Christi: I w, are existing in total ignorance of every duty
phi uf that tj's ouglat to perform. Sir, I cannot entertaind
keluteril; / "e House will wish to pass measures to amen
tin
Wouideirot entertain a doubt that the present Govern-
,lt'cti g this i efe see measures passed, with the view of cor-
jeeo! ih.'arraing evil. True, we are here met by the ob-
eoh°Nies, atosti9l measures may jar with certain sectarian '
144446 e interfere with l'g. n and that you cannot
Nes " aria • •re " ' the religious
'theta tad
r. , In disregard of
Yoh e of e.,. )gnts of conscience, passgeneral
a"
dkiecto inak2lncation.—(Hear.) But this you can
t....
Pie,' and Lhasa grant to those who apply for it for that peg.. thtie plant's dean Promote and assist to educate the li:h..
stye
e toout
Or , entry ; anoth pother
teachteeraschtoerssc,hoaonlds
sthurtouued..
s., tee brnaii se • eis to endow
..lith,ssoose t ramaries. And here I must call the attention
-"d -'e ken° what is the present situation of schoolmasters.
theiZeillar CePend much— the important religious education
lite sre re nowledge of thepeople of this country, and yet
lie al° of these me who remain satisfied with their sta-
nolittietris ihe-rfaecatTtio*.uso
tonreturnto the situation of teachers.
k: th:terlod
thfin mant would remain a
have
eolmaster for a
understood
)4'14. /i' t: the case" wjl7rrs'egard to the National
Si " and "a" frequently asked the Secrery of the
ih
t 4. al,e h orei-n
a, s• School Soclet with regard totst, and he
!h4thool.e /le -.e
marl clever young men educated in a sehool
ey •e, 1)o:'4h-road, they )go fromg us and take charge of
likehttilre oil People finding that they are worthy of confidence
seesliete:e sitiel!tlied away to other more profitable pursuits and.
•aeir ,•'' Tb.'es and leave to inferior masters charge of their
to iloilitips l' is a misfortune. They are in consequence of
those% nf e' et°l4"Yed by merchants and manufacturers in si-
!he of 'Pertance. Rut not surely more important than
hi
bleu in.structin g the children who are to form
tstrut of the conntry.—( Hear, hear.) It must
y rot l' who ;le observation of every one, that it is the schoole
rhepee eertee•allY forms the school, for 'though one may teach
~, ii-eroitiCatee-ris:ortds or certain' parts of the: Bible or the
aro 8 eipi,
,_ ,ne cantot communicate one idea, still less
kiein lire, si " accordance With the doctrines of the Bible.
aktiss as Ir, that all Hon, M be s who hear me are a s
to i n of th ant, to second any Mein
r for improving the edue
teett4oee oo° People and it meatnsdone if we vainly 1,1
414.1 seho:jlYUlrrY regulaticoanns7or s
4,.. it ... ,
of es
the
otherwise.
be
to drive the child to 4 'nit th 'uncle of
ed M be. established ones or
,Y this e schools ucation is impracticable, but you can
‘l. Now 010(1. founded by Protestants or Dissenters, and
tittteti, „s- ts!'ii get rid of the objection I have referred
toe "Y The ~" regard to the national schools, it has been
staaoll that
w‘,orninittee of Education that if they were to
eel° requireool4 be required for educational purposes, they
cpee'lPeriiso t° eznend 130,0001. in addition, implying a
that i 4 for ee re °!. 411',000e. I still think that, the grant you
etopiet should purposes should be increas d. I think
10114 of Etil he less than 150,(1001', per annum for the
s° *t e Part 1,3 and and Wales and I think that the
tr, th Part oro . that SUM ShOilict,go to the national scheel ;
I'llie eNo It Might b bi eel an assistance
we "eh wel school 5 elml n' "
Ztill b °°ls th„ ,8, and the rest might he expended on the
oueutplid
undeur,nout the country. And this might very
Rai e i the priv the supervision of the Committee of Edo-
"atiu aro arn, Council, and lam of opinion that in that
4fterit: Thi °ut't of o might
th • -1.41 „S, the, Scrod be done to the cause of edu-
h eir,pr, end if 1 , is the resolution to which I beg the
!!ertelaleati*erneas may, the approbation of the Heuse—" that
sf,,_:x well
a_
..de of late years in the education of the
40 p4t1:41 by li'dit!„,rnore general diffusion have been seen with
14 shottidsk4euse.” I mean nut by these words that
" instructed in the way proposed by Go-

vernment—not on the principle of exclusive support to the
Established Church, but on a principle of separate
education for all the denominations into which the
inhabitants are divided. I have given a very im-
-1 perfect outline of this measure, which I think ought
to be introduced for the purposes of education. I have, in un-
dertaking to introduce this measure before the House at this
time, taken into consideration the improvement which hag at
this period been effected in our trade—the general and political
tranquillity and obedience to the law which prevails over the
empire—a tranquillity which obviates the possibility of affirming
that it was brought forward to put down clamour or to further
any political end or party object. You ought also to take ad-
vantage of such a period, and to propose such measures as you
may think beneficial to the great mass of the people. I have
given you my views of what is the course of policy which I
would adopt; and whether you think free trade, or the prin.
ciple of protection should maintain the ascendancy, you
should not, at least, wait till a time of disturbance or calamity
mould arrive, before you do something for education. If you do
so—and I pretend not to know what measures may arise in that
time—it will not be so beneficial as at this time. And let me
say one word to those who support the agricultural interests in
this House—namely, that the settlement of this question will
be most favourable to them. Adopt my resolution ;
add to it any further resolution that you may think fit,
according to your own principle, and as your own
views may dispose you ; but my opinion i that
your laws cannot stand as they now are. The condition of the
people requires alteration—not for the purposes of providing
directly for their well being, but for the purpose of giving,
as far as in you lies, freedom irom those restraints on food an%
education which your own legislation has imposed.
The resolution having been put,
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD rose, and said that the
amendment of which he had given notice, on the first resolution
of the Noble Lord the Member for Lon ion, had reference to a
period long before this time. In the year 1842 a petition had been
laid before the House, signed by 3,324,000 of the working
classes of the country, praying the House to sake into its consi-
deration the propriety of extending to them some measure of
political right, by an extension of the suffrage. A motion in
conformity with the prayer of the petition was brought before
the House by the Hon. Member for Finsbury and by himself,
but that motion did not meet with the opinions of the House,
and had, in consequence, been thrown out. The Noble Lord
had advocated the principle of the new poor-law, but he de-
nied that many of the propositions that had been put forward
on that subject had met, with the assent of the late
Goverament. It was his (Mr. Sharman Crawford's) belief
that the object of the New Poor-law was totally to deny to the
poor man the right of relief. He believed that the operation
of the poor-law was to diminish wages, because the poor man
was willing to take any wages rather than submit to the means
of subsistence that the law held out to him.—( Hear, hear.) In
his opiniou the Poor-law Commissioners ought to be compelled
by public opinion to relax the restrictions that were placed upon
the poor.—( Hear, hear.) As to the law of settlement, he
would not now enter into that question, as he should have an-
other opportunity of doing so, when he hoped to be enabled to
persuade the House not to adopt the proposition of the Right
Hon. Baronet on that subject. With respect to emigration he
was anxious that means should he taken to keep all the able-

bow
wed.
1843
esrc
nano,
ad 01
ature4,
too

bodied labourers in this country, and he .was sure, if
the means of the country were properly carried out, that
could be easily done.—( Hear.) He thought that 44 millions
of acres of arable land would be quite sufficient for that pur-
pose and for the comfort and existence of the whole population.
The great evil of the country was that the poor were driven
off the land, and that there was no mode by which the agri-
cultural labourer could elevate himself from his condition.—
.

( Hear, hear ) The manufacturing districts were overwhelmed
with labourers from the agricultural districts, and that had
arisen from the causes he had pointed out. He believed there
was no mode by which the House could make itself more
popular with the working classes than by respectfully consi-
dering their petitions which expressed a desire
to be properly represented in that House, and to participate in
making the laws which were to govern them. The Hon. Member
then concluded by moving the following amendment to the
Noble Lord the Member for London's resolution : " That the
present state of political tranquillity, and the recent revival of
trade, afford to this House a favourable opportunity to give im-
mediate attention to the claims so repeatedly urged in the peti-
tions of the people, for an extension of the Parliamentary suf-
frage, as well as to consider of such measures as may tend
permanently to improve the condition of the labouring
classes." . . . .

Sir J. GRAHAM then rose—With the permission of the
House be should have wished to have addressed it immediately
after the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London had
sat down, but as on the first resolution it was his intention to
move the previous question, and as the effect of that motion
would have been to have prevented the Hon. Member for
Rochdale from moving his amendment, he felt it but right and
courteous on his part to give him an opportunity of doing so.
After reading the resolutions of the Noble Lord, he confessed
that he had come down to the Home with great doubt and per-
plexity as to the course he should pursue, because he
felt assured that it would be no slight task to
follow him through the different positions he had
laid down ; andif any thing were wanting to increase the
difficulty, it was the statements of the Honourable Member for
Rochdale. Having made these preliminary observations on
the difficulty of following the Noble Lord, he felt bound in
justice to him to say that any thing more comprehensive, or
more worthy of the subject, than the speech of the Noble Lord,
he had never heard in that House.—( Hear.) It was totally
devoid of any party feeling or any acrimonious assertions. He
believed that no subject was more difficult to start with than
that which related to the improving the condition of the labour-
ing classes. Their labour was their only property ; and no
subject, therefore, could be more important than their
welfare. He trusted that the House would believe
him when he said that he intended to meet the Noble Lord in
a spirit totally devoid of party, and a desire, if possible, to
benefit the working classes. The Noble Lord had asserted
that the present Government had been unmindful of the in-
terests of the working classes, and that the Member s on that
side of the House generally were careless about them. In
order to deny that he thought he need only refer to what had
been done by the Noble Lord the Member for Dorsetshire—
Hear, hear)—and what had been the course pursued by the
Government with respect to the measures of the Noble Lord.
It was true that some modifications had been made in them,
but their general principles had been approved of by the Go-
vernment, and no doubt they would ultimately be
carried into effect. The Noble Lord had said that
the wages of the agricultural labourers of England did
not exceed Bs. a week. Now, his information on the subject
differed from that of the Noble Lord. He believed that the
average was 10s., and that it was somewhat higher than it
was a few years ago. In Norfolk, Suffolk, and Lincolnshire,
he was certain the average was above 10s. He would now
follow the Noble Lord through all his resolutions. In the
first place, he would address himself to the protecting duties.
The first resolution could not be looked upon in any other
light than complimentary to the present Government. The
second resolution, which was with respect to the
protecting duties, he would now proceed to. The great policy
of Mr. Huskisson was not the abolition of protection, but a
substitution of the protecting duties for the prohibitory system.
Mr. Huskisson was a strenuous advocate of the corn-laws of
1815, and was the principal author of the corn-law of 1828.
He admitted that whilst Mr. Huskisson was the advocate of a
protective duty, he was also the author of a gradual de-
crease of the duty, in proportion to the increase of the
population. He asserted that such had been the po-
licy of the present Government.—(Hear, hear.) He did
not wish to weary the House with unnecessary details. But
as the Noble Lord had gone so far into them, he must follow
for some way. In the first place he must call the attention of
the House to how much had been done in the last three years
in relieving the productive classes from indirect taxation bearing
upon their enjoyments. In 1843 and 1844 no less than
6,300,000/. of indirect taxation had been repealed.—( Hear,
hear.) At the same time, by means of direct taxation, the
deficiency had been removed, the income was raised above the
expenditure, and the naval force of the country had been en-
larged so the amount of 1,000,0001, per annum.—( Hear, hear.)
When the present Government came into office, they ((mod
1,152 articles, of almost the first necessity to the working
classes, subjee to duty. They reduced that number more than
one-half. —(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord referred to the
ante tedent history of the National Debt, am had stated truly
that reductions of the interest had at times served to relieve
industry in a considerable degree. But the present Government
hat not lost sight of that question. On the contrary
they had last year been able to effec an operation of great mag-
nitude, by!which a a saving of more than a million was obtained.
The Noble Lord would excuse him for saying that he was
rather amused by the dexterity. with which the Noble Lord
evaded the responsibility of his own restrictions. He thought
that when a member of that House brought forward such a re-
solution as the Noble Lord's fourth, it was the duty of that
Member to move for a Committee of the House to go into the
consideration of the question, whether or not the food of the
people should be a matter of protection.—( Hear, hear.) That
would be the right course, instead of bringing forward so vague
a resolution. —( Cheers.) He thought that the course taken by
the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton was the right course,
as it went to the question directly.—(Cheers.) But it was
quite clear that the Noble Lord himself had not made up his
mind upon his own question. Then he said that the time
was gone by for a duty of Bs. a quarter upon corn, and that
• duty of 4s. or ss. would be sufficient.—( Hear, hear.) The
Noble Lord now repudiated the idea of taxing food for the
purpose of raising a revenue, and was willing to admit of a
duty for the purpose of protection. But, in fact, as a matter
of protection, a fixed duty would be a delusion. Four or five
shillings, when prices were low, would be no 'protec-
tion at all, and when they were high, no Govern-
ment would be strong enough to preserve the
peace of the country with such a restriction upon the
importation of food. He was satisfied that all the speculation
which the Noble Lord attributed to the sliding-scale would be
as nothing compared to what a fixed duty of ss. would give rise
to. The Noble Lord said that the sliding-scale caused fluctua-
tions of price. He (Sir James Graham) denied that. He
thought that absolute fixedness of price could not be attained
with the variability of our seasons. But he would say that no
law could produce less variability than the present law. It
was very true that a larger amount of foreign corn was brought
to market in the three months antecedent to the harvest, than
in any other quarter. That, however, was the result of very
natural speculation.—(Hear, hear.) He thought it very na-
tural that the holders of corn should keep it back, until they
saw what the state of the harvest would be in respect to quan-
tity and quality.—( Hear, hear.) He did not wish to overlay
this part of the question, but he would absolutely deny that the
present law produced uncertainty. In the last twelve months,
the fluctuations in price had been--considering the nature of
the seasons—very small. Since the Ist of January
last, to the present time, 57,000 quarters of fo-
reign corn had been introduced and brought to market
at the highest duty of 20s. a quarter. And with respect to
barley, he was able to show that nothing could be more equal
or advantageous tkan the present regulation. One million one
hundred thousand quarters had been introduced at the highest
duty, and notwithstanding that importation, the price had never
fallen much below 325., and had not varied more than Is. or
Is. 6d. per quarter. Of 135,C30 quarters imported, 131,000
were entered for consumption. New he would ask what wou d
the effect be if there had been the uniform duty which the
Noble Lord recommended in force, with such harvests as we had
had the last two years ?—(Hear. ) The Noble Lord said that
no impulse had been given to agriculture by protec-
tion. But the Noble Lord should admit that since
the termination of the French war, there had been
a great improvement in agriculture, so much so as nearly
to keep pace with the wants of a population which had doubled
in the mean time.— (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had stated
that the increase of the population was nearly miraculous—
that it amounted to 250,000 a year. The Noble Lord under-
stated the fact, for in the last year the increase had been
370,000. In the last four years no less than 1,500,000 had
been added to the population of these narrow islands, whilst
the whole amount of the population of Canada was
little above 1,00tr.000. The population of Holland was but
2,800,000, and that of Switzerland not quite 2,100,000. Bat
this country, with the conduct of which he (Sir J. Graham)
and his colleagues had been charged for the last four years—
(Cheers and great laughter) —the population had increased by
a number equal to more than two-thirds that of Holland
or Switzerland, and beyond that of Canada.—(Cries
of " Hear, hear.") But at the same time the rate
of wages had risen, and the prices of all the necessaries of
life had diminished.—( Cheers.) But he thought that if
they were to do away suddenly with the protection to the agri-
culturist, which—( whether wisely or not)—had existed a
quarter of a century, they would inflict a great injury upon the
whole community. The Noble Lord had said, that measures
should be adopted to improve the condition of all classes of the
community. But he would ask, was it not the fact, that all

Y

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, MAY 27, 1845.

classes had improved in their circumstances since the present , against it, and in ease of its being rejected, then he should
Govei nment came into office ?—( Hear, hear.) He would move the previous question.
ask, what was the condition of the manufacturing districts Sir C. BURRELL said, that in the course of his speech
when the present Government took office ? Look to the state the Noble Lord had made some reflections on the county of
of Paisley, in 1842. —(Hear, hear.) Look to the condition Sussex—( Hear, hear)—at least such was his impression of the
of Stockport at the same period.—( Hear, hear.) He observations which the Noble Lord had male. When the
then read extracts from the reports of the inspector Noble Lord recollected how great the changes which a few
of factories at Stockport, to show, that the menu- years made in the population of the county. and when he espe-
facturers of that place were then in a state of the cially recollected hew that population was now tending towards
greatest distress, that the works were almost all closed, and the the coast, he thought that the Noble Lord would change his
operatives thronging the streets in a starving condition. Mr. position, and allow that the lower classes in the county of Sus-
Saunders, an inspector of the woollen district of Yorkshire, sex were not so reduced as he representedthem. Had he known
made a statement from which it appeared, that in 1838, the thatcounty properly he would never have so aspersedthe gentry of
number of 54,000 persons, of all ages, were employed in ;the that county. In another part of his speech he had spoken
factories. In those factories there were now employed of the want of education among the labourers, and
114,000, showing an increase of 38 per cent. of persona of all of the disregard which was felt for their wants. He (Sir
ages. Tee reports of the manufacturing districts in Scotland C. Burrell) thought that he might pretend to know something
and Ireland were at least as satisfactory, and there were in some , of the country, and he could assert that it was a constant
districts a want of hands. He (Sir J. Graham) had there also desire among the landowners, and all connncted with the
some individual cases represented to him by Mr. Clements, property of the country, to find employment for the peor, even
an Assistant-Poor-law Commissioner, which he would not read, though at a s icrifice, rather than send them to the poor-house.
through the fear of delaying the House. He (Mr. Clements) ,He knew something of the labourers, also, for he had been in
stated that in one manufactory in his district, the the habit, for many years, of paying upwards of seventy
number of labourers who worked for thirty days labourer:, and had never heard that they were either in want or
during the five weeks ending the 3d of May, 1845, 1 dissatisfied, and he was certain that there was a great desire
received 384/., while the same number, who worked nineteen j throughout the country to meet the necessities of the poer, and
days during the five weeks ending the 3d of April, 1842, re. j provide them with employment, and he should be glad to know
ceived 2161., making a difference of 138/. A master-mason 1 from what source the Noble Lord derived his information.
told him (Mr. Clements), that during the distress of 1841 I Lord JOHN RUSSELL certainly did not desire to throw
and 1842 he would gladly accept employment at two shillings any a-persions on the county of Sussex. He had derived his
a day, but that now he was getting three shillings and seven- information from the report of' the Commissioners to investigate
pence per day, and that, if he close to leave his present the state of the prisons in the county, and to report upon the
master, be could receive four shillings per day. He ( Mr. state of the education of the prisoners whom they might find in
Clements) further stated that they could now get anything the gaols.
they liked to ask for. He then dilated on the relative condi- Sir C. BURRELL--Would the Noble Lord state what
lion of the operatives, and how it depended upon the price of gaols ?
the necessaries of life. He (Sir James Graham) wished to Lord J. RUSSELL—Certainly not.
assure the House that upon the point of the extent of Mr. LA BOUCIIERE said that he had listened with great
wages in the manufacturing districts, he instituted the most satisfaction to the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the Secrc-
careful inquiry, and he held in his hand an account tary for the Home Department. He was glad to perceive from
of the wages of the various departments of labour, and prime- that speech the course which the Government intended to
pally of the skilful labourers in Liverpool, Sheffield, Leeds, pursue, and that they intended to carry out many useful and
Newcastle-on-Tyne, and Manchester, comprising six years, practical measures for the advantage of the country. He was
which stated the annual average of wages in 1845 was as high the last person to object to such a course, or to any set of men
as that of any of the five antecedent years ; and, on the whole, when they evidently were desirous of promoting good and great
with the exception of one or two towns, it was higher than in purposes. But still he thought that there was some doubt of the
any of the previous years. He would read to the House the utility of the mode which they adopted in carrying out
account from Newcastle-on-Tyne, which stated that the their designs; and when this impression was prevalent
wages of labourers had been on the increase, and that the in the country he thought he was not going ton far in stating
workmen were generallly employed. It stated that in 1841, his opinion that the distress of the lower classes had riot been
1812, and 1843, the trade was had, but that it revived in 1844 ; sufficiently considered. —( " Hear, hear," from Lord J. Rus-
and the most of the trade prices given for work had advanced. sell.) He thought, therefore. that the motion of his Noble
In Liverpool it said that in the years from 1840 to 1844 1,000 Friend was both a useful and a wise one, and that he had
workmen were out of employment, and now that there were taken a wise part in bringing this matter before the considera.
scarcely sufficient applications for work. During the last six weeks tion of the House. He thought it was ba'ter to resort to good
ending on the 19th of April, 1640, the wages paid in a certain advice rather than to resort to the hazardous assistance of the
establishment then were 303/. ;in 1841, 3951. ;in 1842,260 e; empiric. He could not but repeat that he had heard the
in 1843, 282/. ; in 1844, 2901.; and in the six weeks ending speech of the Right Hon. Baronet with great satisfaction. As
the 19th of April, 1845, that house paid to the same hands no an indication of the course which the Government intended to
less than 695/.—( Hear, hear.) Ile (Sir J. Graham) said pursue, it certainly was good ; but what did the speech amount
that the amount of wages was not the only one ingredient in to ? That there had been a great revival in trade—that cora-
the comparative comfort of the labouring classes; they should merce and manufactures had been aroused from their great
look also to the prices of the articles of the first necessity. depression, anti that the people were relieved from the dread-
He stated also that in the agricultural districts, so far from ful depression ce high prices.—( Hear.) During the present
there being a fall of wages, there had been an actual increase year this had been remarkable, and he trusted that such
in many counties. He would wish to call their attention to measures would be taken as would effectually prevent any re-
the command that the same amount of labour had over the ne- turn to the disastrous pion of high prices. But what was all
cessities of life compared with that of former years. this ascribed to? Owing to the speeches of the Hon. Gen.
He was not one of those who denied that a bad har- tlemen opposite all these advantages had been ascribed to the
vest was one of the greatest curses that Provi- wisdom of the Government, and it was not until they were in-
dence could inflict, and that an abundant harvest was terrupted by the laughter on the other side of the House that
one of the greatest blessings that it could bestow ; that all they began and perceived that seasons had something to do
human legislation was vain against the dispensations of Pro- with it. When, in additiou to this, they were induced to
vidence, and that all legislation was inoperative when compared look further they might, he thought,' ascribe some thing
with the blessings of Providence ; but when he came to read to also to those periodical changes to which commercial
them the prices of the articles of the fiat necessaries he would affairs were always subject, and to the low prices
show that a great many of them had decreased during the pre- which had ensued in consequence of the general prosperity.
sent legislation. He would compare the present year with the Assuming that tha argument of the Right Hon. Gentleman
prices of the year when the change of Government took place. was correct, what a strong argument it was why they should
In the year 1841 the price of wheat was 645. per quarter, in proceed in a course which had been been attended with such
the present year the price was 465. per quarter. In 1841 the beneficial effects. Let them then proceed—let tirem develop
price of barley was 335. per quarter, it was now 325. 3d. per the resources of the country and open up its channels to the in-
quarter. In 1841 the price of oats was 21s. 11d., it was fluence of still further changes in these high prices. —(Hean )
now 21s. 4d. The price of flour was 10ed. per quartern, Ile was not, however, disposed to go much into detail. He
it was now Bid. The price of oatmeal was 61 considered ,that the calm and tranquillity which pervaded the
per quarter, it was now 3d. The articles which he country was favourable to the consideration of such questions.
was about to enumerate would not so much depend on the The Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir James Graham) said that
harvests. The price of beef in 1841 was 7d. per lb. it was the country was at the present moment in a state of great pros-
now 50. per lb. The price of mutton was 7d. per lb., and periry, and that part at least of that prosperity was owing to the
within the last fourteen days it was 6d. per l'e. The price of late commercial changes that had been introduced by the pre-
pork which was 7d. per lb. in 1841 was now 6d. per lb. The sent Government. If that was so, let them take care that a re-
price of sugar which was 7d. per lb. in 1841 was now sd. per coil would not take place, and producea state of thines worse than
lb. The price of coffee which was 2s. in 1841 was now Is. 4d. what preceded those changes. The country ought, he coo-
per lb. The price of currants which were 9d. per lb. was sidered, to be grateful to the Noble Lord who had brought
new 6d. Candles were sold in 1841 at 7d. per lb. they were forward this great question, influenced, as he was in doing so,
now sold at 6d. per lb. He could enumerate various by no factious or party feeling. He (Mr. Labouchere) per-
other articles, almost every one of which
and-
fectly concurred in the resolutions which had been brought
ponded with those already referred to, and there forward by the Noble Lord, and he would earnestly implore
was not an increase in any one article. He thought the Government to take them into their serious consideration.
that the Noble Lord did injustice to her Majesty's Government, He had great objection, however, to the manner in which
and to the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of that Govern- they had brought about the changes which they had already
ment, when he referred to the measures which he had adopted, introduced. Not only did they disarrange trade and commer-
with respect to the monetary system of this country.. It was cial affairs, but he believed that they had been the cause of
most true that there was a large increase of the circulating prt :lucing the great discontent which prevailed in the manufac-
medium, but while there was a necessity of paying in gold, turing districts. He thoughtthat whatever claim the landed in-
their prosperity was decreased by the undue issue of paper, terest might have to a protective duty, they were not entitled to
payable on demand, which was not only evanescent, but was have it in such a way as todamage the commercial interests of the
attended with the most severe pressure upon all classes, and country. They—the Parliament—of that House, had set an
upon none more than upon the labouring classes. In the year example, he would not say for what purpose or pretext—they
1841, the amount of bullion in the hands of the Bank of had pursued a course, in reference to sugar, which set a bad
England was only 5,000,000/., and the amount of notes in example to the rest of the world. He thought that their re-
circulation was 16,4,10,000 e. When he was now addressing cent measures and policy, in reference to Brazil, had the ten-
them, the amount of bullion in their hands was 16,00,00 U/., dency rather to perpetuate than to put an end to the slave
instead of 5,000,000/., and the circulation in notes, instead of trade. But as that was not the time to enter into that ques-
being 16,400,0001. was no less than 21,163,0C9/., and consequent tion, he would not detain the House further, but conclude by
upon the measure of last year, vti`h reference to the Bank of giving his hearty support to the resolutions which had been
England, there was now a progress in -the same respect in the brought forward by the Noble Lord. —( Hear. )
banks both of England and Ireland. Measures were taken Sir J. T YRRELL considered that parties in that House
against the undue circulation of that sear, and he believed that and in the country were in an extraordinary position. They
they were going certain lengths with respect to the Bank of had an opposition doing the business of the Government, and
England which would render that prosperity not only not they had a Government who were deserted by those who
evanescent, but stable, and these measures were not only in ought to be, and had been its most strenuous supporters. For
progress, but had received their completion and had produced his own part, he gave his best thanks to the Noble Lord who
theirwffects. Then let him call attention to the state of ape- had brought forward this question for the opportunity which
culation in this country, for it should be admitted that specu- he had afforded him of expressing his opinion on it. lie did
lotion had had great effect upon the state of the labouring popu- not think that any Member of the House was open to the
lation in this country ; and the first class of speculation to which charge of prolonging the debate when he attempted to lay
he would call attention was the amount of capital that before the House the judgment he had formed on these
had been embarked in railway speculations within the last four all-important questions. The Noble Lord had brought forward
years. Up to the year 1841, there were laid down in this his motion on the corn question, feeling that this was the
country 2,345 miles of railroads, at a cost of 66,700,000/. ; in great battle-field, and the main question for their considera.
the year 1844 there were 728 additional miles laid down, at an tion. The Noble Lord had done great injutice to the agri-
additional cost of 10,4C0,0e0/. ; and during the present session cultural interest, inasmuch as there was a great fund at the
the creation of new lines of rail amounted to 6,000 additional disposal of any Minister who might think fit to carry it out for
miles, with a capital equal in amount to 80,000,000/. Last the benefit of that interest. By the 43d of Elizabeth it was
year, the lines of railway which received the sanction of Par- enacted that all persons should contribute to the poor-rate in
liament extended to an outlay of ten millions ; and this year proportion to their means.—( Hear, hear.) If that were now
it was expected that the outlay in the country upon rail- the case he thought Government would soon find a large fund
roads that should receive the sanction of the Legislature, at their disposal for the
purposes of education, and for vile_
would amount to about 20,033,030/. Now, of course, a great viating the distresses of the poor • but it happened that of late
deal of this money whould be expended in giving employment; Ministers had fought very shy of the commercial and menu-
in fact, for many years to come it would give very extensive factoring districts of the country. Yet there were many indi-
employment. There was another matter in connexion with viduals in the large towns of this country who did not con-
this subject, to which he would beg to direct attention, in re- tribute one particle to the maintenance of the poor-rates—
ference to the state of the working classes—namely, the dimi- Howell and James's, or Storr and Mortimer's, for instance, who
nution of crime in England. He found, by returns that had would tell him that they had invested their money in pro-
been laid before the House, a very considerable decrease in perty.—( Laughter. )
the diminution of crime. He found that, in the year 1842, if the principles of Hon. Gentlemen
uh
oppositeter
were
there was a diminution of full 50 per cent. ; in 1843 were harshly dealt with, as those on that side of the House did
it was still greater ; and the diminution of crimes of not carry out their own principles. With respect to malt, for
ean o question
true,
oc
un e which,they
an atrocious character was still more remarkable for instance, they did not take off any portion of the duty, and yet
the last year.—( Hear.) He would next call attention such would be the increased consumption, and such the addi-
to the Report of the Poor-law Commissioners that had been tional amount added to the revenue, that no loss would be sus-
laid on the table of the House this year, by which it appeared tained by any such course—on the contrary, when the agricul-
that, as compared with last year, there was a diminution equal tural interest complained, they said to them, "We cannot
to 20 per cent. as compared with the year 1843, of able ho- forego any such imposition;" and when they asked for a trifle,
died persons relieved in the workhouses. With regard to what they told them that it was unworthy of the agricultural interest
the Noble Lord had said about the law of settlement, he (Sir to make such a demand. He could not, however, descend to
J. Graham) begged to say that his opinion was in favour of personalities, because he was perfectly aware that they ought
making birth the test of a right to settlement, though objet- not to be tolerated when great interests were
lions might arise to the regulation in the rural districts at stake ; but this he would say, that when the
which could not apply in manufacturing towns. manufacturing districts were in a state of depression, the
With reference to the Noble Lord's opinion upon emi- Right Hon. Baronet altered the corn-laws,.but when the agri-
gration, he (Sir James Graham) was rather at a loss cultural interest complained—as they did at the commence-
to understand the Noble Lord. The emigration to America ment of the present session—the Right lion. Baronet's re-
was a comparatively cheap and short voyage—it cost but 71. medy was to make the manufacturing and commercial interests of
but there all the Crown lands in that country belonging to this the country so rich and at the same time so hungry—( Laugh-
had been made over to the local authorities, so that there was ter)—that he was not able to find them provisions. That was
not much to be expected by emigrants going to that country. the way great interests were dealt with. It had been said that.
And as to Ass walla, that voyage occupied five months, and they were not in a condition to form an agricultural adminis-
cost 191., while in Sydney there was at present such an excess tration.—(Hear, hear.) But be that as it may they thought
of labour that people were wandering about there unable to that they had done so. He for one did not consider that any
get work, and therefore the Government should exercise greater reflection on the intelligence of that body than it would
the utmost caution in recommending emigrants to that colony. be in a nobleman who had not two sets of butlers, nor two sets
Ile had before him a table showing the emigration which had of cooks, and who did not offer his guests the entertainment
taken place from the United Kingdom during tee last ten they had expected. Those on the bench below him he thought
years. In 1641, 18,000 persons emigrated ;in 1842, 28,000 ; had forfeited their confidence, and so far as they
1843, 57,003; and in 1844, no less than 70,000 persons emi- were concerned they might look for other friends.
grated. During the first quarter of the present year, the emi- It was true they might not
get better.—(Laughter.)
grations from the United Kingdom amounted to 13,507 ; the The great parties in this Howe were so united that there was
number for the same period of last year, being 7,286. He now very little difference between them on great or small questions.
came to another point on which the Noble Lord dwelt with —e Laughter.) It was necessary to call them by name to spe-
great earnestness and anxiety—he alluded to the means taken cify their opinions. He felt considerably indebted to the Noble
for the education of the working classes. He admitted with Lord for bringing forward those resolutions. He regretted '
the Noble Lord, that all efforts to improve the education of the that he could not vote for them—(Laughter)-because they.
working classes, without attention being paid to the improve- were not of a practical character. The Noble Lord
ment of their physical condition, would be found useless and tended that they should be so.—(Continuedtlauguhutderiu'uk But
unavailing. Ile was satisfied, that in the first instance they he must do him the justice to say that he ktecp
must pay attention to the improvement of the physical con- keeping a man at the mast-head watch
dition of the working classes. Their physical condition being moved, that he might avail himself of
he should
utmost attention on their moral improvement. Had the Go- fidence of the Queen. Under circumstancestheseeiiedi
a anyl awoghpepnortt
f
improved, it became the duty of the Government to bestow the taking the reins of Government, and of obtaining the con-
utmost not believe that
vernment shown neglect in this respect ? In 1841, the annual sit down.—( Great laughter.)
not for him to point out.
and last year it was 70,0001. Since her Majesty's present What might happen in the future was
vote for education was 30,000/. ; in 1842, it was 40,0°04 ; the constituencies of the country had changed their opinions.
hu
laughter.)
set
ty out,anow
had been granted to the National School Society, Lord held power he . had not propounded
Government came into office, the sum of 10,000/. —( Loud laughter.) During the ten years
auy winhtiecthligtiteleNntoebale.
ing master., and the sum of 750/. had been granted to the great pains
1,000/. in aid of the Normal schools for train- sure in tll t House
od,
lte wornth
its
sesipmepcnt
rttoa
needeu.catlitlealwtheroeugashkhede tookwhy
grahctt
chiefly
deplored, he would say that they arose from a
granted to a school at Chelsea, 3,500/. to a Normal school at for one
Foreign School Societies. The sum of 3,5001. had been all classes were in the receipt of such small wages, which he
school of the West. Riding of Yorkshire. The sum of 9,0001. policy which they intended to pursuet towardsh those engaged in
Battersea, and a further sum of 3,500/. granted to the diocesan want of confidence in the Ministers and in that flobiuceaslerliygashwtt:obntuhgte:
mehig,httdme
a
hyhenamnpittobe acorn-law
establishment
hblei
sehnulgrantedNormaltot eGsechn :real!
aAssembly u
we f
atotlEadnidu
Edinburgh,
hhe,
being
itstlfyar
right,theorys theyhw.
men as well as of
vances—had been made for the foundation of schools in Great debate. The Hon. Member and generally speaking very large advances--progressive ad- It could not be disguised
btheratctunwelwudase
that house, he saying
that
when
Britain. No less a sum than 320,000/. had been spent in the they next put their noses into
of
establishment of schools since the year 1833. Those sums taken if there was not changeaN
had been advanced in addition to subscriptions of private Lord POLLIN GTO differed entirely • measures.
from the views of
individuals. Altogether within the last twelve years the Right Hon. Baronet who had Just sat down. An ancient
as much as one million of capital had been philosopher said that there were two great feelings in our
expended in Great Britain in building and founding schools. nature, the sympathy and antipathy,.. but the strongest feeling
Nor had the Dissenters been behind hand in this, for they hail of of all was the sympathyantipathy.y- He thought this observa-
subscribed as much as 70,000/. He had now but one other tion very well applied to mans tin• Members on that side of
subject to notice in reference to the moral improvement of the the House who opposed the Government. The Hon. Baronet
to his own country, hut would
people of this country, and that was in reference to a measure boasted of his affection James's
t , yet raise
brought forward by his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the a palace of foreign stone in St. J s reet, erected by foreign
to the -
Government, and which received the sanction of Parliament artists.—(Hear.) With respect. e corn-laws, he had not the
in the course of last year. He alluded to the measure which same feelings of dislike to their repeal as many Hon. Members
enabled the Ecclesiastical Commissioners of England, without on that side of the House.—(" Hear, hear," from the Opposi-
any contribution from the public funds, to build churches and tion.) He objected to colonization. on any hut a full and colo-
of sending convicts to
to place endowed ministers in densely-inhabited manufacturing plete system. The plan our colonies had
districts of this country. The measure had now been in opera- been most pernicious. Withrespect
.to the question of educa-
tion for about t welve months, and during that time thirteen tion he thought much good had been done by the attention
churches had been built, thirty-nine were in progress of being which Parliament. had lately devoted to the subject. He pre-
built, and forty-seven were contracted for to be built. ferred no education to education without religion—total dark-
Those churches would afford accommodation to 260,000 nese was better than false lights, which would lead them to
people. He had now shown that, coincident with the destruction. said
measures which had been proposed in the last three or four Mr. VILLIERS rose and that .he bad been listening
years, there had been a most remarkable revival of the trade of with the greatest attention for some hours to the discussion
this country. There had been, on the whole, an increase in promoted by the Noble Lord, and he took great anxiety
the wages of labour, and there had been a diminution of crime to find an answer to the principal question raised
and a diminution of pauperism. Much religious instruction hail by his resolutions—to see some reasons why
been afforded, and, on the whole, he did hope and believe, that lie should not intrude himself upon the attention of
the account which he had been reading would be regarded as the House, either by an answer to his Noble Friend's
indicative of no neglect of duty on the part of the Government. arguments, or by a determination of his Noble Friend
He was confident that the British public would see that they to relieve him from the trouble of obtruding himself on that
had faithfully discharged their duties, with a sincere and honest House in future. Ni) one could.
~dislinte the great question
desire to promote the interest and happiness' of all classes of raised by his Noble Friend that night—it was a question of pro-
ber Noble Lord
Majesty's subjects, but more especially the interests and tective duty, because the brought before the
welfare of the labouring classes. He must say, that in his opt- House the condition of the labou classes, with a view to the
nion the resolutions which had been proposed by the Noble improvement of their condition. Ile alluded to many timings
Lord, must be regarded, both by the House and by the which had deteriorated the condition of the labouring classes,
country. as demonstrations of a disapprobation of the con- but which were not within the reach or cor.troul of the Legis-
duct of her Majesty's Government, and as indicative lature, but he alluded to one thing in particular which had
of an opinion that her Majesty had been ill advised. He should been the especial cause of _ this deterioration and
feel it to be his duty before he sat down to move the previous which was within the control of Parliaments—( Hear. )
question,
but to arrive at that previous question it was first ne- He had presented to the House that night a high duty with
cessary to negative the amendment of the Honourable Member 11 that lie had said on the subject, and they had been waiting
hear the
for Rochdale. He could hardly think that the Honourable n that side of the House to, theory defended, and to
would be disposed to press the amendment to a hear whether it was practicably true what had been prqposed.
Gentleman
division. If, however, he should persist in pressing his amend- He really listened with interest when the lion. IllemUer for
tnent, it would be his (Sir James Graham's) duty to vote Sussex rose, and thought he would rise with just indignation

' ~. ~,

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