Star.
London, England, 1830-05-15 00:00:00

as Parliament continued to make this allowance of 6,0001. the gross
absurdities of Clerk of the Pipe, Clerk of the Nile, and King's Re-
membrancer would be retained, for Parliament by granting the
money was sanctioning the abuse. (Hear, hear.) The wood tallies
of the Exchequer which had been so often alluded to in that
House. and which an Act was passed to put an end to at the expi-
ration of certain vested interests, were accordingly put an end
to about six or seven months ago ; but the principle was still kept
eq. for now instead of wood they had parchment tallies, so that but
advantage was to be derived from the change--(hear, hear.)
There was also out of this sum of 6,0001. an allowance of 171. 10s,
to each of the Barons of the Exchequer, for stationery—a most petty
thing, and which should be done away with, when it was considered
what a liberal provision had been made by parliament for these func-
tionaries. He thought the house ought to call upon his Majesty's
enbil.ters, to state why they paid so little attention to the report of
their own commissioners, and why they left every abuse of tile ex-
chequer precisely as it was in the reign of Henry the Second.
Mr. O. DAWSON admitted, that a great many amendments
might be effected in the exchequer, and several had already been
sarried into execution, in accordance with the report of the commis.l
@loners, to which the hon. member had alluded. The vote at m-
ean before the house had no reference whatever to the clerkship al-
luded to by the hon. member. With reopen to the sum appro-
priated for messengers, it was as reasonable as could be expected.
Hen. members must be aware, that if their valets were sent on such
messages, they would find it difficult to reconcile every shilling of
their accounts, and such business as this could not be effected with
proper expedition unless a liberal allowance was granted to the mes-
sengers. •
Lord ALTHORP said, he felt disappointed that some change in
this system had not taken place wading to the advice of the Fl.
mance Committee.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, mach had
been done in accordance with the report of the commissioners.
Mr. HUME said, according to the returns it appeared that the
vote, or a great part of it, was for the officers of the Exchequer.
One portion of it was explicitly charged as paid to the Clerk of
the Pipe. He thought the house would be perfectly warranted in
refusing the vote, for the Court of Exchequer ought not to be suf-
fered to remain as it was for another year.
Mr. BERRIES said, a change in the system would be effected
as soon as possibly.
Mr. GORDON, in reply, said he trusted he had succeeded in
drawing the attention of the house to the subject, for it was now six
years *Wes the report of the commissioners had recommended the
abolition of the office of Clerk of the Pipe.
Mr. HUME wished to ask, if a messenger had not been sent to
the Duke of Buccleugh, to request that he would come to London
so move the address ? If this was the way the messengers were em-
ployed, it was no wonder the charge for messengers was high.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that at this
distance of thus it was impossible to say.
Mr. P. THOMSON said, the expense of messengers to Paris
twice a week was most extravagant, and the messengers not content
with charging double, made also a trade of smuggling—The vote
-vas then agreed to.
The next vote was 950 L far Professors of the Universities of Ox-
'GM and Cambridge, for lectures —Agreed to.
The next vote was for the sum of 13,7781. for salaries of Com-
missioners, &c. of the Insolvent Debtors' Court.
Mr. WARBURTON said, when we had so many commissions
of bankrupts he could not see the necessity of voting such a sum for
the Insolvent Court.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL defended the neceralty of main-
taining both the Insolvent Debtors' Court, and the Commissioners
of Bankrupts, but the hon. gent. spoke in so low s tone as to be in-
audible.

Mr. O'CONNELL said, that the business of the two courts was
very different; but it was remarkable that in thesister kingdom young
banisters, inexperienced, were generally appointed. He condemned
the practice of appointing as Commissioners of Bankrupts prac-
tising banisters, for they pleaded before each other to the great de-
triment of the public. He had also known a fee of ten guineas paid
tea young barrister' who was a commissioner, to obtain his opinion
one supposed case, and, after he had given that opinion, the real
case has come before him the next day in his character of Commis-
sioner. He could see nothing to prevent the junction of the two
courts; for, though different in practice, and though many people
became botiltrupts, expressly with the intention that they should
not thereafter be insolvent —yet there was that connexion between
the objects of both, that a plan might easily be devised for their
advantageous union. If no one else took up the subject, be should,
next Session of Parliament, introduce a bill with that view.
Mr. WARBURTON said he had • bill for the purpose of al.
tering the constitution of this Court, which he hoped, before long,
to have brought before the House.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY said he thought an alteration might take
place with goat economy, and with great advantage to the public.
Mr. P. THOMSON said that mercantile men would prefer a
composition of five shillings in the pound where the property was
equal to ten, rather than make a bankrupt of the debtor, as by so
doing they risked the loss of the whole in law expensea.—(Hcu).
----- - - - -

Lord ALTHORP said he agreed with the Solicitor-General that
the two Courts could not be united, for the Insolvent Commissioners
bad to go circuit, a duty which was wholly incompatible with the
duty of Commissioners of Bankrupts.
Mr. BATLEY could not agree with this opinion, nor did he
think that Commissioner, of Bankrupts should be suffered to prac.
tiae, for, almost invariably, a great portion of their time was devoted
to the bar, which ought to be devoted to their duties as Commis.
stoners.

Mr. SYKES complained of the existing system as inconvenient
and expensive.
Mr. J. WOOD thought that the present practice was perfectly
aisreflUME said, he thought the Bankrupt Court the greatest
nuisance that could be inflicted on the kingdom ; and it was, there-
fore, lamentable to hear the Solicitor-General uphold its existence
on the ground of its excellence and its utility. The expense of the
Bankrupt Court was 260,0001. a year, a sum not to be equalled by
the expenses of any Court in Europe. It was disgraceful of the
Ministers and of the Law Officers of the Crown to permit the eels-
trace of such a Court for a single year. (Hear, hear.) Some of
the Commissioners belnew were men of great ability, and were
anxious to redress the abuses of the Court—who, be would ask,
prevented it ? %S-ax it the Lord Chancellor ?—Perhaps so. Was
it the hon. and learned gent. opposite (the Solicitor-General ?)-114
believed it was, or he would not have lauded It as he had done.
(hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the hon.
member for Aberdeen had altogether mistaken the argument of his
hon. and learned friend (the Solicits-General), who only contended
spinet the propriety of uniting both Courts.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, be had no more controul
over the bankrupt court than the hon. member for Aberdeen had
himself. He was not disposed to retract any expression of appro-
bation he had given to the commissioners.
Mr. WAITIIMAN said the fault was not in the commissioners,
but in the system. There could be no necessity for 74 commis-
'loners, except to swell the patronage of the ministry. He had him-
self taken the opinion of a commissioner, who had told him that a
man was amenable to the bankrupt law. The next day he was sur-
ptised to see him as counsel for this very man, contending for the
opposite proposition before two other commissioners, In which be
succeeded, and he (Alderman Waithman) lost thereby a debt of
I,OOOL (A laugh.) This had given him such a distaste to the
bankrupt court, that he would make any sacrifice rather than go
there awn.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY said, that the principle of the Insolvent
Debtors' Act was very imperfect. It appeared by the return of the
provisional assignee, that he received fees to the extent of 16,600
a year out of the miserable assets of the people who passed through
that Court.
Mr. BRIGHT said, it was Incumbent on government and
the law officers of the crown to Caitlin! :this Important sub-
ject, for the benefit of the public. The creditors of insolvents
got 'nothing. There never was a system of laws that worked
so much immorality as the bankrupt and insolvent laws of this
cautery. He did not mean to say that the Commissioners of the
Insolvent Court Here not respeetable men; he believed they pa.
fanned duty; but the system was so vicious, that it must be
emtkely . The Court of Commissioners of Bankrupts
abounded w such evils as no commercial people should be af-
flicted with, and government should, without loss of time, set itself
to provide a remedy.
Mr. MONCL said, there should be a Bankrupt Court appointed
with permanent Judges; not having the same persons Ju one
da and practising Barristers the next.
The Resolution ma agreed to.
4, 0341. was voted for the Allen Office.
Oa the resolution that 11,1364 be granted for the Penitentiary at
Milbank,
Mr. HUME rose to make some observation, when—
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, to prevent
deftly, be would withdraw the motion.
On she resolution, that 60,8821. be opted for superannuation
allowances to officers of public offices and departments,
Mr. LENNARD said he thought the superannuation allowance
was defective in principle. Time who had large salaries should lay
wit a reeitina fee their old age; but those who had small salaries
could not be expected tease.
Sir NEWPORT macurred in this opinion.
Mr. MABERLY said there were two heads of expense in the
saperannua flan list whieb should not be allowed to enter it. One
was the office of Commissioners in Scotland, and the other the
linen Board of Ireton& They might as well call people out of the
Meets to give supseanapatioo 'llama* in.
Mi. DAWSON defended the gnat.
The resdutlest nomad to.