The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-24 00:00:00

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defence had been done. A letter had been written from a ma-
gistrate in the Bay of Islands which required the presence of
the Governor there, but he refused, on the ground that he
could not leave the seat of Government. Such co duct was not
in any way defensible. He was persuaded that if he Governor
or any officer of experience had bean there, the olony would
have been saved from the disastrous fate whic ► it eventually
suffered. He would ask what would have been t e fate of the
125 British subjects in the Bay of Islands, if an American frigate
had not been there to succour them ? Did not t s fact furn►sh
a disgraceful reflection on the English Government? His Gal-
lant Friend opposite had said he thought that the Governor

acted petfectfj right in remaining at the seat of government,
but would it not have been better to have sent back the North
Star to have armed all the colonists, to have imported more
troops, and have attacked at once John Heki, and
prevented him from taking possession of Auckland. He
thought it his duty, as a British officer, to state these
facts ; the only manner in which he could account for the con-
duct of some of the officers at New Zealand, was, that there

must be something in the climate which infected their minds.
Too much praise could not, however, be given to Captain
Robinson for his gallant and intrepid conduct.—( Hear, hear.)
Everybody in the Bay of Islands must feel indebted to that
brave officer, and he hoped that the Admiralty would feel it to
be their duty to promote and reward him for his brave con-
duct.—(Hear.) He regretted being obliged to comment on
the conduct of any officers in the service, but he felt it to be
his bounden duty, as a Member of Parliament, to do so. He
would not trouble the House with further observations.
Lord IN GESTRE said he was anxious to bury in oblivion
every topic which could lead to irritation that had been men-
tioned in former debates. He felt bound to state that when the
deputations waited on Sir Robert Peel, they were treated with
the greatest courtesy and consideration. The Right Hon.
Baronet referred them to Lord Stanley, and that Noble Lord
evinced the utmost desire to promote the objects which the de-
putation had iu view. Much had been said about a loan, but
•

he was not ashamed to say that the New Zealand ;ennpany
would, had the title to their lands been guaranteed by the
Government, been anxious to obtain a loan, so that they might ,
more readily effect their purpose, and promote the welfare of
the colony. It would have been most desirable to have re-
moved the capital from Auckland to Port Nicholson, for the
inconvenience was very great, but Lord Stanley was averse to
it. He would apologise to the Right Hon. Gentleman the
Secretary of State for the Home Department, and the Under-
Secretary for the Colonies, for any harsh expressions which
he might have used towards them. He must say,
that notwithstanding all the obloquy that had been
cast upon the New Zealand Company, that he
had never seen a bo‘ly of men act from purer or more disin-
terested motives to promote great national object. He would
,in justice to Captain Fitzroy say, that he believed his disposi-
tion was to do the best, though he thought the line of policy
pursued by him had been injudicious.' Regarding the recent
lamentable events which had taken place iu New Zealand, he
must say, that he thought they would have been averted by
a proper and decided line of conduct towards the natives.—
(Hear.) As to the treaty of Waitangai, though willing to
admit to the fullest extent the rights of the natives—he
would not admit the construction put upon that treaty by the
Government. Either the land belonged to the natives, or was
under the control of the Crown. In either case the inter-

pretation put upon the treaty by the Government could no
be sustained. He did hope that, in spite of all the angry feel.
ing which had been engendered by this discussion, all party
feeling would be allowed to subside, and that course be mutually
agreed upon, which would best secure the interests of the em-
pire, and the welfare of the colony.
Mr. HAWES said he was most anxious that all party feel-
ing should be laid aside in this debate, and that the question
should be entirely considered on its merits. He believed the
Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government was anxious
to do what was right ; and he hoped the debate would not be
brought to a close without an expression of opinion, on the
part of the Right Hon. Baronet, which would be satisfactory to
both sides of the House. He had always thought that the waste
lands of New Zealand should be in the hands of the Crown.
Because this had not been the case, New Zealand, in-
stead of being a flourishing colony, was in a de-
plorable state. He agreed with the Honourable Member
for Liskeard (Mr. C. Buller) that local 'municipal institutions
should be formed in the colony, from which Members of the
Legislative Assembly should be selected, and who, as a matter
of course, would bring much local knowledge to bear on the
interests of the country. The policy which had been pursued
towards New Zealand had led to occurrences of a disastrous
nature ; and it was now time that another and a better course
should be adopted. The Colonial-office, for instance, had
pursued a line of conduct which plainly evinced that
the policy of the Government was to destroy the utility
of the New Zealand colony.—( Hear, hear.) This be
could prove by a reference to various documents, if it were ne-
cessary to do so. Nothing could be more mischievous than
the obstructions which were thrown in the way of this com-
pany. Great companies, like the New Zealand Company, ef-
fected great good, and brought about results which the Go-
vernment could not. achieve. He wished to speak with respect
of the Colonial-office, but he could net divest himself of the
belief that that department of the Government had been mis-
led by information supplied to it, and had consequently adopted
a mode of policy towards that colony which could not be
easily justified. They would now have to held possession of
that colony by force of arms, instead of measures having in
view the conciliation and the peaceful government of that
colony. They would not effect any great good until the Go-
vernment asserted their right to the waste lands of the colony.
And what was the opinion of the Committees of that House ?
Just this—that unless the Government toak the whole soil of
New Zealand under their control, confusion and strife would
be the consequence. If they thought they could settle it by a
reference at home they wou'd be mistaken. While this in-
quiry was going on they would have fresh disturbances and
fresh outbreaks. They ought to have had a man of higher
rank, such as Lord Ashburton, commissioned to settle all these
disputes upon the spot. The expense would be as nothing in
his mind. He felt strongly on this point, but from what he
knew of Lord Stanl ay, he felt assured that this dispute would
be speedily at an end, and the same prosperity restored which
had fi-st marked the proceedings of this Company in its origin.
He thought that it was necessary, to bring this dispute to a
conclusion, that all the circumstances ought to be stated.
Sir R. PEEL said, that before entering on the main
question he wished to make one or two observations. His
chief point was to d'sencumber the question of some of its
minor difficulties. In the first place, he would say
that Mr. Stephen was, in his conviction, an in •
dividual of the highest integrity. From family con-
nexion, from personal position, and from all those
things that distinguish the character of a man, there was every
reason to b 4ieve that no imputation whatever could be thrown
upon his character. Whatever might be the impression on the
public mind, though he had no connexion whatever with Mr.
Stephen, and did not even know him, yet this he would say,
that a man of finer ability, nobler integrity, ,or of more amiable
qualities, did not exist in the employment of Government. He
felt bound to hear thistestimony to the character of Mr. Stephen.
He would now refer to another individual equally meritorious,
and for whom he entertained the very highest respect, an officer
whom the Gallant Commodore opposite had, in his opinion,
unjustly aspersed, lie meant Captain Robinson, and the manner
in which that individual had conducted his operations in New
Zealand, the efficient services he had rendered—services which,
though in themselves not peculiarly distinguished by the
amount of numbers engaged, were yet of more real importance
to the country than many not confined to the same narrow
limits, and he thought that the House would not. wish tosee ser-
vices so conducive to the public advantage, and merit and ability
spent in the service of the country go unrewarded. That
officer bad lately set a gallant example to others engaged in the
service of her Majesty. He had been seriously wound,cl in a
successful effort to quell a disturbance in the colony ; and
here, on the floor of the House of Commons he (Sir R. Peel)
begged to say that that conduct should not pass unnoticed.
Hear, hear.) He repeated that that Gallant Officer should
be rewarded, not merely because of the act of justice to him
but for the encouragement of others.—( Hear, hear). He
(Sir Robert Peel) felt it an act of duty to reward
such conduct at the very earliest opportunity. (Loud
cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Member who brought
forward this motion, said it was incumbent on the Govern-
ment to assign a reason for the course of policy they had pursued
in New Zealand. After the recent discussion which had taken
place upon this very subject, he ( Sir Robert Peel) thought
that wale good and sufficient reason ought to have been shown
for calling the attention of the House again, at this period, to
the affairs of New Zealand. Certainly this mode of procedure
was not calculated to allay or to reconcile differences; it had,
in his opinion, rather a tendency to widen the breaches which
unfortunately already existed between the two authorities
in this country in whom the management of the affairs of the
colony was confined. Such a reason was unquestionably re-
quired, for surely the Hon. and Learned Member should have
been the most anxious to forget past differences, and to
avoid—studiously avoid—useless discussion, and not to throw
difficulties in the way of a harmonious settlement of that colony.
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman admitted that he could not
himself assign any sufficient reason for this motion. He ad-
mitsed that the present state of New Zealand, and the unfor-
tunate conflict which had th,re lately occurred, did not justify
this motion. He (Sir R. Peel) thought that it ought rather
to have been discouraged. But the lion. Gentleman said,
" Now I will assign the real reason for this motion." He could
tell the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that if it were not well
founded he was incurring a great responsibility. —( Hear, hear. )
He ( Sir R. Peel) did not deny the perfect right of the Hon.
and Learned Member, or of any other Hon. Member, to make
this motion in the House of Commons. Ile did not deny their
or his right to bring this motion forward in his or their places,
as a Member or Members of this House of Parliament ; but
he objected to this motion at this time, on the ground that the
welfare of New Zealand, and the interests of this country would
not be benefited by a discussion of the subject.—(Hear, hear.)
The only ground, then, that could be assigned for this motion,
was that language was held out by himself and his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Hope), in the course of last debate, which was at vari-
ance with the policy lately pursued towards the colony of New
Zealand. He (Sir R. Peel) was indeed acquitted of any in-
tention of gaining a majority, by holding out a delusive hope.
But, said the Hon. and Learned Member for Liskeard, that
language was calculated to have had bad effects, and Mem-
bers were induced to vote with Government, or at least
not to vote against them.—( Near, hear, from the Opposi-
tion.) He said that the course of conduct subsequently
pursued by the Government was at variance with their pre-
vious language. Hewes about to examine that, but should not
relieve him from the necessity of dividing on the question.—
( Hear, hear.) He was about to defend himself and his Noble
Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies, but should con-
fine himself to this point. He should enter into no examina-
tion of past differences with the New Zealand Company. He
would remember that the New Zealand Company now existed,
and that it was desirable for the public interest that a co-
operation shculd exist between them and the Government
—( Hear, hear)—and he still retained the opinion he had
formerly expressed, although late circumstances had forced
him in some degree to alter his course of policy.—( Hear,
hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member fur Liskeard said
that he could not refer to any particular expression in his (Sir
R. Peel's) speech, his remarks would apply to the general
tone. That speech he ( Sir R. Peel) freely admitted,
might have been made in a conciliatory tone. It perhaps
avoided all reference to past disputes with the Colonial.office.
He wished to look forward to peace; he had no desire to look
back upon differences and disagreetnents—( Hear, hear)—and
he wished to promote an early and satisfactory arrangement of
"those differences.—( Cheers.) But every word of that letter
which he wrote to the New Zealand Company—every letter
and every word in that letter—he was prepared to maintain._:_
' (Cheers.) If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman expected
some explanation on his part as to the topics in that
letter, such explanation he was not prepared to give. He
would not supersede his Noble Friend in the conduct
of the Colonial-office, for in his opinion he most cordially con-
curred.—( Hear, hear.) He believed his Noble Friend to be
influenced by a sincere desire to promote the welfare of the New
Zealand Company as far as he could consistently with his duty
to the Crown, and his faith to the country. The Honourable
and Learned Gentleman asked if he meant to imply approbation
of the whole of the past policy of the country as it respected
New Zealand? That was not the point. The real question
was, whether the correspondence which had taken place since
his speech was delivered was at variance with the sentiments
he had then expressed.—( Hear, hear.) He abstained from
nnt!cing any other part of the subject. He would himselfcon-
tenthe
had
askingade in
th
uasotene, question, was any
part of this communication
at
declaration varianceFo r his
wwnithpartthhoe
said no. Now with respect to the general spirit of that de-
claration he admitted that the general tone was conciliatory.
Had his Noble Friend acted otherwise?—(Hear
,hearam Had
he shown any indisposition to receive the deputation
Company, even after the imputations wlueb bad been so