The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-31 00:00:00

at an early hour, sat on the cellar stairs, and soon heard
a noise in the bar. Upon going towards' the bar he saw
the prisoner climbing user ale top of the pair of doors,
and told him that he had been suspected fur some time.
lie replied, "Oh, Sir, I have taken but a few coppers,
and I hope you will forgive me." The prisoner then
took out of his pocket two shillings and twopence-half-
penny in copper, which had been all marked. There
was other property belonging to the prosecutor also
found upon the prisoner.
A policeman stated that he found in the prisoner's
box some silver and copper, and brandy, screws of to-
!Kee°, &c., &c.
The prisoner—I am very sorry for it. I own to taking
the cigar. I have no father, and lam sorry for it.
Committsd for trial.
CLERK EIV WELL.
SEDUCTION AND VIOLENT CONDUCT OF THE SEDUCER.
—Yesterday Thomas Frederick Boughlon, aged about thirty-
eight years, of respectable appearance, who was described in
the police-sheet as a law stationer, residing at No. 9, Tooke's-
court, Cursitor-street, Chancery-lane, was charged by Joseph
Clarke, an elderly man, who described himself as a general
dealer, residing at No. 22, Rose-street, St. Luke's with having
been drunk and creating a disturbance round his house, and
with making use of threatening language, by which he went in
bodily fear.
The prosecutor said that the prisoner had become acquainted
with his (laughter, whom he had seduced, and they had been
living together. Witness made inquiry to trace and recover
her without success until her mother met her, on which she
_clung to her, and accompanied her home. On Tuesday after-
noon the prisoner came to his (prosecutor's) house in a state of
intoxication, smoking his cigar, and, parading backwards and
forwards, swore most vehemently that he would have
"
his wife. He subsequently came at intervals from that time,
until half-past nine o'clock at night, continuing to knock vio-
lently- at the. door. He was accompanied by three ruffians. Ile
exclaimed, I will have my
wife out. I demand my wife. I
am determined to have my property. I will have my wife this
night, or death will ensue." The witness was very much ex-
cited, and, pointing at the prisoner, exclaimed, °'l am in fear
of my life through that monster. I will call him a monster ; he
has seduced my child, and I want protection."
Mr. KCMG llTON—Ni'llere is your daughter now ? Witness
I have sent her to Liverpool this morning.
Mr. Bei:sue irosr—Was she willing to go 7—Yes, your
Worship.
Prisoner (to prosecutor)—Did you ever abuse your daugh-
ter, and tell her to come to me for protection ?-1\ ever, never.
Prisoner— You did ; and she came crying to me.
fly the Prisoner—l never accepted presents from you after I
knew you were a married man.
Henry John Leath, a lodger in the prosecutor's house, de-
posed that he was alarmed by a great noise and the prisoner's
exclamations outside the house. The inmates were greatly
alarmed. Miss Clarke was so terrified that she fell into hyste-
rics. Heard the prisoner call out, " I will have my wife."
111 e-s Clarke begged of her father and mother net to let the
prisoner into the house. Witness climbed over a wall at the
back of the house, and alarmed the police, who came to the
spot and took the prisoner into custody.
Mrs. Ann Moore, another lodger in the house, corroborated
this evidence. The prisoner asked witness whether Miss
Clarke was at home ? She said she was. lie told her that she
had been stolen from him on the previous night, when he was
tipsy.
Mr. Beou GIITON—Is Miss Clarke a prudent young woman?
Witness—Mist Clarke was, till her acquaintance with the pri-
soner, a steady girl, and her father was kind and affectionate
towards her.
Dayman, 161 G, deposed that at a quarter past nine on
Tuesday night he saw the prisoner knocking violently at the
door of Mr. Clarke. He heard the violent screams of a female
in the first floor as if in fits. Two other officers came up. The
prisoner said, "Itis my wife, and I will go in." He attempted
to force open the street-door. He was drunk. Mr. Clarke,
on seeing the officers, opened the door, and said he would give
the prisoner into custody for bigamy. The prisoner said he
was not married.
Mr. Clarke here said that the prisoner was a married man;
he had two wives ; but he could not say whether he was mar-
ried to his daughter or not. He had four children, and he had
given them an excellent education. His daughter was a pearl
worker, and was employed in a most respectable way.
Mr. Beouoirrow inquired hew the prisoner became ac-
quainted with his daughter? Mr. Clarke—She unfor-
tunately went to work in the same house as the prisoner. Ile
was continually coming after her, and he introduced himself to
them as a single man, when he kept her away from her home
and ruined her.
Mr. BuouieliTON asked the prisoner what he had to say in
his defence ? Prisoner—l never used the threatening or violent
language attributed to me by the witness. I met Miss Clarke
at the west-end of the town, and explained to her how I was
situated. She said her father treated her brutally.
Mrs. Clarke (emphatically)—He never did. I never, on
my oath, suffered him to be inside my house after I found ou
he was a married man.

11r.
RitoucsiTort Ordered the prisoner to find bail, himself
in 40/, and two sureties in 30/. each, to keep the peace towards
the prosecutor and his wife for two months.
WANDS WORTH.
ATTEMPTED MURDER.—.Yesterday Thomas Curtis was
charged with cutting and wounding, with intent to murder,
Jane Curtis, his wife.
The complainant seemed to be very weak, and the crown of
her head was covered with adhesive plaister. She stated that
her husband, herself, and some of the children had been haymak-
ing in different parts of Surrey, and on Monday evening they
stayed at Coombe Warren. The prisoner, who had been de-
ranged for nearly live months, was very quarrelsome, and began
ill-treating his eldest son. Complainant interfered to protect
her child, when the prisoner struck at her with a soldering iron,
which he used in his business as a tinker. Complainant
escaped the blow by jumping into a ditch, but the prisoner
jumped upon her, and struck ber on the top of the head with
the instrument. He raised his arm to inflict another blow,
which must have caused her death, when her son interfered
and took away the weapon. The police were sent for and the
prisoner was given into custody. The complainant added, that
she went to a surgeon, who dressed her head, and declared
it to be a very dangerous wound. She said she did not wish to
hurt her husband, but unless he was confined he would murder
her and her children.
PAyarratt said he should commit the prisoner for trial,
where it would be ascertained if he was in an unsound state of
mind or not.

LATE ANI) IMPORTANT FROM
PERU.
(Frons the Liverpool Times.)
Letters have been receives! from Lima to the 19th of May,
brought overland across the Isthmus of Panama, and for-
warded to this country by the last West India mail. Their con-
tents are very important.
It will be remembered that the Peruvian port of Arica was
bombarded by the English steam frigate Cormorant in August,
1844, in consequence of a quarrel, originating in a gross insult
to the British Consul at Tacna, inflicted on him by some of the
military partisans of the Government which has just succeeded
in placing itself in power, under the lead of General Castilla.
The authorities at Arica having also insulted the commander of
the Cormorant on his demanding redress, and having refused
him permission to take in water, he immediately fired into the
town, and soon compelled the authorities to apologise. Letters
from Lima of the 19th May, received in Liverpool, state that
the British Government is not at all satisfied with this repara-
tion, and that it has sent a formal demand for redress, and for
the removal of the officers who were guilty of the original out-
rage, to the Peruvian Government. They also state that it
was
denotded, and that it that the Government would grant the redress
ortman Lima was therefore feared that Callao, the
P of , would be blockaded, if not bombarded', by the
of 2
English
a tithe st. The Collingwood, of 80 guns, the Modesto
,eam-frigate Cormorant, were at Lima, under
the command of Admiral Seymour, and two frigates were ex-
pected 110111 Valparaiso—a force quite sufficient to enforce re-
dress, if it was refused by the Peruvian Government. The
this
follounpleasant wing is a mevent ore comp m
lete summary of the letters relating to
In consequence of the British consulate in Tacna having
been forcibly entered by the local authorities, in the month of
May or June, 1844, Mr. Adams (her Majesty's Chargd for
Peru), demanded from that Government the dismissal and
disgrace of the prefect of Tacna, General Iguani, as a repa-
ration for the insult offered to the British flag. This being
refused by
General Castilla, the acting president of the re-
public, the Peruvian squadron in Islay was detained by her
Majesty's steam-vessels of war (it being assembled there for
the purpose of conveying troops to Lima, which city was then
held hy a party opposed to said Castilla). Under these cir-
cumstances, the Cormorant British steamer-of-war arrived in
Arica Bay, and proceeded, as usual, to take in water from the
shore, on the evening of the 31st May, which she was not
permitted to do. After some discussion, and being a second
time prevented from watering, she commenced firing on the
town, when the authorities, in alarm, permitted her to accom-
plish her purpose. Mr. Adams was on board the steamer at
the time.
who
The
bs air remained in abeyance, and General Castilla,
su became Presideut of the republic, re-
fusing any satisfaction until May last, when Mr. Adams (it is
supposed under authority from home) again brought forward
the question, demanding full satisfaction, and giving the
Peruvian Government a short time to decide in, it being gene-
rally understood that in case they did not act satisfactorily,
the whole of the Peruvian ports would be blockaded. The
British force in Callao Bay consisted of the Colliugwood, Cor-
morant, and two sloops of war, two frigates being also daily
expected from Valparaiso. The Peruvian general had gar-
risoned the castle of Callao, and an extraordinary secret court.
cil had been held on the 18th of May. The result had not
transpired, but fears were entertained that the Governor would
not make the desired reparation. The British Consulate had
required from the several
this h value of the British pro-
perty under their charge. In this position the affairs stood at
the date of the last advices."
Since the above was written, we have seen accounts
Lima to the 25th of May, which
stated
Seymour
ted that Admiral Se from
had sailed from Callao to Otaheite in the Collingwoo. If news is correct, the Peruvian Government must have give thisn
the satisfaction demanded for the outrage at Tacna and the insult
of Arica, though it does not seem to have done so until nearly
the whole British squadron. in the Pacific had assembled before
Callao.

This very po-
MR. WILSON'S ENTERTAINMENTS.--
pular vocalist has commenced his progresses in the provinm, in
which he proposes to include Guernsey and Jersey, in the south, and the principality of Wales in another direction. His opening
entertainment in Chichester, on Monday, was most suspicious. A very crowded audience on the eve of " Goodwood" was scarcely to
and others, let us hope, the
be expected of the Chichester folk •; some were engaged in pre-
paring to victimise their lodgers ;
greater number, to entertain their friends from a distance. Nu-
merous, however, the audience was, and of the highest class in
rank and intellect. There was a wealth of good looks too, which
all England, no, nor all the world, could excel. The fair dames
of Sussex mustered in some force, and the heights of Torres
redras were not more impregnable than the battery of bright
eyes, nor the troops that manned the said heights more potent than
were the soul-sweet and heart-subduing smiles that greeted the
melodious interpreter of Burns and his brother bards of Scotland.
We know, for isn't it in Lempricre ? that an accomplished son of
Jupiter built the walls of Thebes by the music
of his lyre, movit
Amphion lapides canendo, as jolly old Horace sings ; but Wilson
i the south of Eng.
has effected an exploit quite as great
o by concord of sweeten the
crowds of
land, lie has moved,
parallel one), who
strong sympathies in common
people, rocks of sense (to make the case a
cannot be supposed to have very
" Pheesic student," ,
' with Scotland, and not one of whom, a stray
the vernacular I
and the Scotch banker excepted, know anything of
of the north "Oh I potent charm of song.,. Yet it is not song
merely that works the wonder. " Wilson is so true to nature,"
though
say people of keen discernment and profound sense, who,
they have never seen the peak of Ben-Lomond, or sniffed a salt
herring in the Broomielaw, 011 still recognise nature even when
she meets them far away from her native hills. What Moore did
for the dear, and now deathless, melodies of Ireland, when he
wedded them to Immortal verse, Wilson has done for what were, 1
before his day, the comparatively little known lyrics of his native
laud, And, apropos of that, it were ill done to omit making some
reference to the manner in whirls " Tam Glen," ~ My spouse
Nancy," " Mary Morrison," and other such like gems of WWI,
are illustrated by the graceful instrumentation of Mr. Land,
MAYNOOTH GRANT.—Stich !
is the bad feeling that
the discussion of this question hasengendered, that two
gentl mene
of Omagh lately were neatly having a hostile encounter on tile subject. Hostile messages passed between them, which affair was
only settled by the interfereece of friends.—Arniag A Gazette.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, .July 31.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday. )
Sir IL PEEL thought it extremely unfair to find fault with
the Government with respect to the Land Commissioners. The
Ant of Parliament appointing them had far different objects
in
view than an income-tax. They took them as they found
them. They were the best machinery they could get without
creating new officers, and were selected as being more likely
than any other body, to give satisfaction to the country,
and to prevent any jealousy that might arise if the Go-
vernment had taken the matter into its own hands.
With regard to the assertion of the Hon. Member (Mr.
Hume) that the Land Commissioners who had levied a distress
on Mr. Fielden's property were actuated by political feelings in
the course they took, he could not believe that any person hold-
ing such an office could be actuated by such unworthy motives.
Mr. BROTHERTON said, when they considered that the
Land Commissioners were appointed through the instru-
mentalitymHootni.veßs acrootritiedt
ntohtathtohldeygccoodu,ldasntohtesbee
of Members of Parliament, the statement of the
paecrst uo
na tse
tdo
obyfrepolitical
held the opinions of those by whom they were appointed to
their cffices. When it was considered that Messrs. Fielden
and Co. had lost large sums of money in their business, it
must be evident that they were not liable for the income-tax.
Captain PECHELL hoped that the motion would lead to ,
inquiries into other cases equally as severe, and cited the case 1
of Mrs. Shuttlewood, a poor widow, with an income under
1501., who owed three years' rent, but who, though in difficul- 1
ties, was compelled to pa:, the income-tax.
Mr. FI
the Go ern m repent would con lied, and said he would not divide the house ifsent to the returns he had
moved for. I

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER consented to
do so and the subject dropped.
RAILWAY ACCIDENTS.
Mr. BERNAL called the attention of the Government to
the late railway accident!, particularly to that on the South •
Eastern Railway. The train after the accident was detained
full six minutes by the clerks and cheque-takers in collecting
tickets, though many of the persons in the train were suffering
from the severe contusions which they had received. Of late,
railway accidents had been very frequent, especially to the mail
trains on the London and Birmingham Railway. He wished
to know what steps the Covet nrnent had taken with respect to
the accidents to which he had alluded, and whether steps would
be taken to ensure more safety to those who travelled by rail-
ways?
Sir G. CLERK said that an officer had been dispatched
to inquire into the accidents to which the Hon. Gentleman had
referred. The Government had taken steps to insure a report
in all cases of accidents or loss of life on railways immediately
on their occurrence.—(Hear, hear.) As yet they had not re-
ceived ally official statement with regard to the accidents, al-
though they had seen accounts of them in the public prints.
He was bound to state that when the offisial report was re-
ceived, thst it would be fully considered by the Board of Trade,
with the view of affording better security to the public.
Mr. CLI VE considered that the late serious accident on the
South-Eastern Railway had resulted through gross carelessness.
Mr. P. HOWARD trusted that the active supervision of
the Legislature would be exercised over railways, that such
dreadful accidents might be prevented for the future,
amid that, in the next session of Parliament, his
recommendation might be carried into effect. The
way in which the Brussels and Antwerp Railway was managed
showed to demonstration that it was possible to prevent acci-
dent. Surely the engineers of this country were equal to those
of the Continent. He hoped that Hon. Gentlemen connected
with railways would take the subject into their consideration,
as they were surely as fully competent to manage their railways
as their neighbours of the Continent.
Sir R. PEEL said he certainly was not sorry that the Hon.
Gentleman had called the attention of the House to the
subject, especially, as at present, they had no means of
reaching those who were really the responsible parties.
The responsibility which attached to those tonnected
with the management of railways was at present in-
sufficient to ensure the safety of the public: He hoped,
then, that Parliament would insist that better security
should be given to the public by railway companies. It was
no argument to say that there were a number of accidents
occasioned by stage coaches. They had a right to demand
that large companies should give greater security against
accidents than they had hitherto given. Occurrrences of the
nature alluded to had a most injurious effect on the public
mind, especially at the present moment, when railways were
growing into greater favour than before. He believed that
many accidents which had occurred on railways might have
been prevented, and might be prevented, by proper caution.
These accidents followed from not having proper arrangements,
and the competition which had induced such rapid travelling
on these lines. lie thought that clue protection should be
given to the puhlic, even if it led to a reduction of profits.
Nothing could be so fatal to railway undertakings, and to the
interests of their proprietors, as any course that would destroy
the confidence of the public in the safsty of this mode of
travelling.
Mr. HUME said he would go further than the Right Hon.
Baronet. Those who undertook a certain amount of work in
matters that did not involve the loss of life were found to
execute it, and, surely, in the more important matters that in-
volved the lives of her Majesty's subjects, at least the same rule
should be enjoined. Parliament was entrusted with
certain powers, and they ought to enforce them for the
protection of the public. He was glad to bear that the
Right Hon. Baronet opposite was to take the matter into con-
sideration next session. He objected going into Committee at
that hour of the day, when such an important matter as voting
away the public money was concerned. It was a bad principle,
and one, he believed, without precedent.
The SPEAKER—There is one precedent for it.
The Hose MEMBER proceeded to say—He hail, on
former tensions, when he took a more active part in
the business of the House, objected always to the course
of bringing the estimates on after twelve o'clock at night, and lie
had been successful in getting that practice ahondoned. the
vote ought only to be taken when there was something like a
House and when it was convenient for Members to be present.
He considered some arrangement alight be come to, by which
the necessity of bringing on the estimates at unseasonable
hours would be avoided. lie thought that Tuesday and
Thursday night might be set apart for these'-who had
independent motions, Monday and Friday could be set apart for
Government business, and on Wednesday they might meet at
twelve o'clock to settle private Bills and business of minor im-
portance, so as to separate at six o'clock. This would leave the
evening at the discretion of Members. In meeting at twelve
o'clock, it should be arranged for no Committees to sit on that
day. He was sure that by this means much more business could
be got through than at present. Members by such a course would
haves holiday at least one day in the week, and the Right lion.
Baronet and his colleagues, who so assiduously attended to the
duties of their office, be allowed some relaxation from the
fatigues of business.
Sir R. I'EEL said the present session had been a very pecu-
liar one, from the great amount of private business. he calls
on the time and attention of lion. Members had consequently
been very hard.—( llear, hear.) So far as the Government
was concerned there had not been any disposition to delay the
House, but the contrary. Very early in the session he intro-
duced the Income-tax Bill and the question of the tariff; also
his general financial statement. All this was done to facilitate
business; and he must say, that as far as other Hon. Members
were concerned, there had been no factious opposition shown to
the measures of the Government. With respect to the ques-
tion referred to by the Honourable Member, he thought that
the proposition of meeting at twelve and rising at half-past six
on Wednesdays a very judicious one. Sitting in that House
for five continuous nights was far too much, and any arrange-
ment to alter it he would very gladly support. Members
ought not to be called on to sit every day for the five days the
length of fourteen hours per day. Means should also be taken
to bring about an earlier termination of the session. With re-
gard to Thursday nights, he thought it ought to be left to
Members who had motions to propose. Having said so much,
he hoped lion. Members would take such steps with regard to
the remaining business of the session as would bring it to an
early close.
11r. HAWES said that if such an arrangement as that named
respecting the House meeting on Wednesday at twelve o'clock
was agreed to, steps should be taken to ensure the attendance
of Members so as to make a House. He thought that at
such sittings questions that, in the present session had been
discussed three or four different times, might be settled at once.
He complained that though Thursday had been hitherto un-
derstood ss the night for independent motions since the Ist of
July, there had been no certainty of any Hon. Member having
the opportunity of commanding the ear of the House.
Mr. BERNAL thought that next session of Parliament it
would not be so easy to command the attendance of the Hon.
Members as it had been in the present. He thought there
ought to be some other tribunal to refer the consideration of
railway Bills than such Committees as had sat upon them in
the present session. He did not think it would be possible for
the Government to get a sufficient number of volunteers the
next session to sit upon the quantity of Bills that would be
brought under the consideration of the House.
Sir ROBERT PEEL was of opinion that it would be a very
unsafe step to divest Parliament of the control which it now
possessed. He was persuaded the House of Lords would do
its duty, and he had full confidence that Hon. Members would
also do theirs.
Mr. AGLIONBY said that, having seven years' experience
of the business of that House, and seen the evils of continuous
sittings, he congratulated the public and the Right Hon.
Baronet on the step that was proposed to be taken regarding
the Wednesday sittings. Such a course would be beneficial to
all parties concerned.
Mr. HA WES said that in the twelve o'clock sittings the
attendance of Members ought to be enforced. Since the open-
ing of Parliament he never recollected such assiduous atten-
tion to business in any session as had been given. All general
business brought before the House had been most carefully
attended to. He must, however, except the private business.
He thought some change was necessary in the mode in which
those Bills were considered.
Mr. BULLER wished to express an opinion on the way in
which the private business was managed. He would take the op-
portunity of stating that a more injurious mode of conducting
inquiries on such Bills never existed in any country. He was
opposed to stand-still legislation, and wished a change. The
Right Hon. Baronet had expressed himself satisfied with the
present mode, but he (Mr. Buller) was not. There were in-
stances of a Bill that session, which having passed through a
Committee of that House at prodigious expense, was again
submitted to the same ordeal in the House of Lords,
hus repeating the whole expense. But what
was the result even then ? The Bill was recommitted and af-
terwards thrown out—thus entailing prodigous expense on the
parties who were interested in the success of the measure.
There aught to be a court of appeal in which the whole inquiry
could take place, and the merits of the Bills be argued. lie
trusted that Government would take this matter into its most
serious consideration. At present these questions were
generally decided by parties without local knowledge
or opportunities of forming a competent opinion on
their merits. Ile considered they ought to transfer all the
powers now held by Committees to a general board, a com-
petently constituted tribunal, which should have the power of
examining evidence, deciding the preambles of Bills, and re-
porting the same to the house ; the reports to be treated in
the same manner as coming from Committees of that House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought that
it was worthy of consideration whether some alteration could
not be made in the present mariner of conducting these inquis
ries before Committees.
Mr. WILLIAMS recommended the bringing forward Bills
earlier in the session as a means of facilitating business. He
complained that within the last month so many as eleven Bills
hail been introduced into the House.
Lord PALMERSTON wished to say one word on the sub•
ject of accidents on railways, and on tle outset he thought it
necessary to state that this was not the first act of care-
lessness of which this particular local railway had been guilty. In November last he came by one of their
trains to London ; he was in his own carriage, which
was turned with its back to the engine, and had ample oppor-
tunities of seeing what was going forward behind the train.
The train was drawn by an engine in front, and propelled micas
sionally by an engine behind; and if an accident had happened
in any of the tunnels, the engine bellied must have
inevitably run into his carriage, tor there was only a
luggage-waggonsmall bet sveen the carriage and the
locomotive. Just previous to arriving at a station the engine
behind dropped off, so that the passengers might not be aware
of what was going forward, and after the train had passed the
station, up came the assistant engine ag&n.e-( Hear, and a
laugh.) He mentioned the eircossatance to the Board of
Trade, and he than ascertained for the first time
that the company, from some false motive of economy, had had
a number of engines built which were not sufficiently powerful
to work the line, and they were, therefore, compelled to receive

the aid of an assistant engine. His principal object in rising,
however, was to call the attention of her Majesty's Government
to a subject of far greater importance—he meant the
present state of the national defences of the country..—( Hear. ) Any man who valued peace, or who was at all sensible of the advantages derivable from peace, must feel that this was a mat-
ter of first-rate importance, because upon the existence of
peace depended the prosperity of the trade and com-
merce of the nation.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He had
occasion to state, on a former day, that France
maintained a standing army of 340,000 men fully equipped,
with a large cavalry, and a large artillery, and in addition to
this she had nearly a rnilion of the National Guards of Paris,
trained, disciplined, reviewed, equipped, clothed, and accus-
tomed to all the fatigues and duties attendant upon a time of
war. If this country were totally inaccessible, if there were
impassable barriers existing between the two countries-.-if the
Channel could not be crossed—he would admit that their present
forces and means of defence were amply sufficient for the na-
tional protection. But it was not so; the Channel could be
crossed in a few hours, and France had a navy in every
respect superior to our own ; and the Channel, therefore,
became no longer a barrier. France had a steam fleet ca-
pable of transporting 290,000 men. She had harbours inac-
cessible to any foreign Power for the safeguard and refuge
of this fleet, and around these inaccessable harbours she had
immense bodies of well-disciplined men, regularly and alwaes
stationed. With this state of things on the opposite shore of
the. Channel, it was impossible that this country could remain
secure, unless Government established similar safeguards, and formed a steam navy capable of repelling any foreign
intruder..—(Hear, :hear.) He might be told that our I
present relations with France were of the snort
amicable nature, and he trusted they would always remain an;
but it was impossible they could be sure, from month to month,
that this peace would continue to exist between two such great
countries, having had large interests in nearly every part of the
globe. Questions of the utmost delicacy and difficulty might
arise unexpectedly, and they would be quite unprepared fir
averting evils which might result from them. When these
questions arose, moreover, they could not deal with France in
that spirit of independence which was consistent with the in-
terest and importance of this great country, if they were not in a
state to convince her that cur shores were inaccessible to
a foreign invader. On a former occasion he pointed out the
defenceless state of our naval arsenals, when the Right Hon.
Baronet told him that measures were taking for removing !het
deficiency, and he had no doubt it would he done effectually.
He dwelt a'so, at the same time, upon the necessity of harbeurs
of refuge, when the Right Hon. Baronet stated that the subject
was under consideration, and Government intended to take a
vote for the purpose of establishing seine of them. The vote,
however, was too small • but he trusted this small beginning be vigorously followed up in the next
session.—( Hear, hear.) But it was not only har-
bours of refuge they wanted ; their steam navy was in a
deficient state. There were no disciplined bodies of men sta-
tioned near to the coast, as in France, and, in the event of an
invasion being attempted, it would take up a considerable time
in getting the steam fleet ready to be used in repelling the enemy
—he was much mistaken if it could be done under three months.
He contended that there was a constitutional mode of guarding
against this state of things, by resorting to the practice,
which, from motives of economy, had been abolished, namely, of
calling up the militia. A short timeago he asked the Right lion.
Baronet, then Secretary for the Coloniesewhether it was intended
to billet the militia, and the Right Hon. Baronet told him that
it was not. He had therefore felt it to be his duty, before the
House went into this Committee of Supply, to urge
upon the Government the great importance of re-
organising this portion of our military force. There
was no constitutional objection to this course; while
it would considerably increase the army at a comparatively small
expense. It was not enough for Government to have a majorite,
in that House—it was not enough for them to pass their mea-
sure and scramble through the session—it was not enough for
them to introduce good measures for domestic legislation, and he
admitted that some of their measures this session had beers ex-
cellent—no, it was not sufficient for a Government to do all
this; there was something else for them to do. They ought
to put the country in such a state of security that they should
be able to set at defiance all hostile invasiuns and hostile threats.
Sir R. PEEL said—Sir, I feel all the difficulty under
which any person placed in my situation mast labour in dis-
cussing publicly the question to which the Noble Lord has
felt it his duty to call our attention.—( Hear.) I totally differ
from the Noble Lord as to the defenceless position of this
country.—( Hear, hear.) I think I could prove that the Noble
Lord's impression on that subject is altogether erroneous ; but
I am quite sure that I should not be acting consistently with
sound discretion if I were to state the facts upon which my
own opinion is founded.—( Hear, hear.) Nothing could he so
unwise as to encourage parties—a small minority I trust—in
other countries who may be bent on hostility to ours.—(Hear,
hear.) I should be very sorry to furnish them with instru-
ments to be used against their own Government, and thus to
prevent that Government, though sincerely desirous of
maintaining peace, from securing that object on account of
the clamour of a certain portion of the community.—( Hear. )
I must say, generally, however, that the Noble Lord has
greatly underrated the power which this country would pos-
sess, in the event of hostilities, for the vindication of its honour.
—Cline, hear.) So far from concurring in the opinion of
the Noble Lord, I believe that in case there should be a
necessity imposed on this country of resorting to hostilities,
there never was a period when such a demonstration as would
then be called forth has been made; the Sovereign, sup-
ported and encouraged by the almost unanimous voice of the
people, being determined in a just cause to make efforts worthy
of the ancient character of this country.—( Hear.) I have a. strong opinion that. upon that head we hare nothing to fear—
( Hear, hear.) I think it is hardly possible to estimate what
will be seen to he the dormant energy of this country if a just
eause should call it forth. At the same time, I must say that
I concur in some of the principles which have been expressed
by the Noble Lord. I think it would be most unwise in this
country to trust altogether to present appearances, arid I bold
that it is most advisable that this country should be able to f. el
confident that, in the event of sudden hostilities, she would he
strong enough, and bas the means, for her own protection. I
quite agree with the Ncbie Lord, that on the sudden occur-
rence of hostilities, as for example in the year 1793, unless you
are in a slate cf preparation, the cost of sudden exertion is
im-
mense; and that it is a most unwise economy which would
leave you to make sudden, precipitate, and unlooked-for efforts,
in order to secure your own safety. I think also, with the
Noble Lord, that this country should be in such a state
that any other power may not on that account be encouraged
to resort to hostilities for the purpose of obtaining advan-
tages. I trust, indeed, that we shall be able to preserve the
friendly relations which exist between this country and
France ; this, I hope, will be the case, both for the sake of
England and France, and for the sake of the civilised world.
So far are this country and the House of Commons from
grudging the prosperity of France, that I am sure I speak the
general feeling when I say that we saw the returns respecting
the commerce of France with great satisfaction.—( Hear, hear.)
I wish that more intimate commercial relations may be esta-
blished between the two countries ; but Ido trust also that
whilst France is increasing in her commerce, she will see that
she owes that increase of prosperity to the maintenance of
peace, and that there will be among all rational people in that
country a deliberate opinion that the honour and interests of
France may be much better maintained by cultivating industry
and promoting commercial prosperity than they could be by
seeking that which is perfectly unnecessary for that most gal-
lant country, whose reputation stands so high at every period
of her history, namely, the maintenance of her glory by the
increase of her territorial possessions.—( Hear, hear.) But,
Sir, I must own that I am rather surprised at the Noble
Lord's excessive apprehensions on this subject ; because the
Noble Lord was in office for a period of ten years, and I ven-
ture to say that this country is in a better state with respect to
the means of repelling aggression than she was at that time.
—( Hear, hear.) Did the Noble Lord see France expend the sum
of fifteen millions sterling upon the fortifications of Paris,
and issue an order increasing the army suddenly to the ex-
tent of 100,000 men ; and doer the Noble Lord think that this
country now stands in the same position with respect to
France as it did in 1841 ?—( Hear.) There was no militia
ballot at that period ; there was not near the same amount
of military force that there is at present ' • and I very much
doubt whether there were as many sail of the line.—( Hear.)
The Noble Lord has, I admit, suggested many points deserving
of serious consideration. It is impossible not to see what a
change has taken place with respect to navigation.—( Hear.)
I think that this country has a perfect right to consult its own
security. If it were proposed to increase the military or naval
force of the country for the purpose of aggression, we ought
most seriously to consider the policy of such a course ; but, as
to taking measures for our own security in the event of public
hostilities, the last consideration which should present itself to
the mind of a Minister of the Crown is, " What will other
powers think ?"—( Hear, hear.) I should certainly not hesi-
tate to propose to Parliament, without reference to any other
powers, what I considered necessary even for contingencies.—
( Hear, hear.) With reference to the dockyards, let me ask
what was the state in which we found them ? The Noble Lord
does not tell us that years passed without any measures of im-
provement being adopted.
An HON. MEMBER—Steam was not in existence.
Sir R. PEEL—The improvements which are even now
going forward make it desirable that we should not be hurried
on to the adoption of measures, lest the money which we
expend should be entirely thrown away. We have a perfect
right, however, to take precautions for the defence of the
naval arsenals and dockyards of this country. For the Navy
and Ordnance we proposed this year an addition of 1,100,000 e in the estimates. I am placed, with respect to this matter,
between two fires.—(Hear, hear.) Every word that I say in
one direction may induce other parties to exclaim, " See what
the Minister said in the House of Commons ; tee must now
have two or three millions more."—( Hear, hear.) I should be
exceedingly sorry to see a race run between great powers—not
a race in commerce and civilisation—but each increasing as
far as possible its military and naval force.—( Hear, hear.)
There must be a limit to that. It is a question of the nicest
discretion, whether you shall propose large sums for the army
or the navy, or whether the effect will be to add to voar rela-
tive strength. I know not a nicer question with regard to
economy and to every other public object than the extent to
which yeu will proceed. I hope, however, that this country
will never depart from that policy which has secured its safety,
namely, that of being strong as a naval power, and at the same
time not attempting to enter into competition with the great
military powers of Europe--( Hear, hear.) Say what you
will, this country would not be satisfied with the existence of
a standing army of 100,000 or 200,000 men kept within our
own land. I admit that the amount of military force is nest
sufficient now to enable you, consistently with due economy,
to meet the demands which may arise; but with respect to
our becoming a great military power, and relying upon having
a military force able at once to meet that of other countries,
except for the purposes of our own defence, that is a compete
tion into which I trust this country will never enter..-(!tear,
hear.) I do hope that this country will always have such a
degree of naval strength as will enable her to feel entire con-
fidence, in the event et* hostilities. Then, with regard to the
d
subject of local militia, let me ray that I
apprehend we leave a
emands in case of necessity, upon a body of disciplined
men amounting to 50,000, in whom we might repose great
hearcenfidence. I refer to the Chelsea pensioners.—(Hear,
. ) When I was Seeretary of State twenty years since, I
even then felt that the militia was in an unsatisfactory state, ;
and that there ought to be some local force constituted in this
country. The Noble Lord is aware that under the Act
there is no prohibition against proceeding to ballot for the
militia. The Act suspends the obligation to ballot, which
would otherwise be imposed on the Crown; but, in case of
necessity, the Crown would still be able to resort to
this force. I would observe, that there has been that
change in the state of society within the last few years
which would probably render the present militia laws not
exactly so suitable as they were, and they might, perhaps, un-
dergo useful alterations. It is not necessary, perhaps, that I
should now enter into any further explanation on this subject,
which the Noble Lord has introduced. lam bound to content
myself with stating that his impression as to the defencelessness of
this country is totally at variance with my own. I . lot alsnot
of that which concerns the public spirit and the honour of
Englishmen—( hear, hear)—for lam sure tht cante Noble
Lord will admit, that with whatever difficul ltiesidbeappeal to
the country might be attended, that appea wou . entirely
successful.—( Cheers.) Whatever may be required for the
public service will be asked for without scruple by her Ma-
jesty's Government. lam sure the House will feel the ne-
cessity of plaeieg this country at all times in such a state of
security that it will not have to depend upon temporary and
possibly delusive appearances of tranquillity, but there will be
actual peace, without any anxiety as to the result of the imme-
diate occurrence of hostilities.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord said that we had fortunately a large surplus. But who
is to be thanked for that ?—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) We
have a large surplus in consequence of that imposition of tax-

ation which, besides giving us this surplus, enables us to take
precautions for the security of the country, and to remit that
part of our taxation which has appeared to us to press
most upon the labour and industry of the community.
Having a surplus, we feel that we cannot apply it better than
by taking precautions against eventual and possible danger;
and the increase of the votes for the Navy ate! Ordnance and
the vote proposed with respect to the harbours of refuge show
that, while we attend to the claims of the people to the remis-
sion of taxation, we have not neglected the precautions which
we think necessary for the safety of the country. With respect
to
hasthb pheesefilrystsmyeaalr that
i,andanlyhperpeopowsael
eeelntarmboauders. oflrehfeugyee,tethiias
purposely
shall not be driven forward too fast. Nothing can be more
important than that we should take the best opinions as to the
proper mode of securing the object. I take it for granted that
the House is satisfied of the necessity which exists for those
harbours of refuge which repeated naval commissions have re-
commended. The subject has undergone. such full investiga-
tion that there can be no necessity for any further inquiry.
Dover, Portland, and Harwich are the sites which, as the re-
sult of repeated inquiries, are pointed out as the most appro-
priate for harbours of refuge. We have felt it our duty with
respect to each of those places to take the (Onions of the
most eminent civil and military engineers as to the best
m ,de of insuring to the country the greatest permanent advan-
tage as the result of tint money expended. With respect to
all these places, and especially Dover, it is of the utmost im-
portance that we should have the opportunity of profiting as
far as possible by the opinions of those who aee best qualified to
give advice on the subject. These various matters are occupy-
ing the serious attention of the Government, and if my answer
to the Noble Lord be not entirely satisfactory, I entreat the
House to bear in mind that I stand in a position in which I
must appeal to their confidence, because I cannot state the par-
ticular facts upon which my own impression, as opposed to that
of the Noble Lord, is founded.—( Cheers. )
Lord PALMERSTON said that he had not stated that
the naval and military resources of the country were in a less
efficient condition than at any former period. All he cern-
tended for, and he did it on three or four grounds, was, that
such had been the improvement in steam navigation, that troops
might he transported from one part of the empire to another
with the utmost facility, and the economy of the military
department of the country was so much improved from what
it had been in times past. Ha had no intention of impeach-
ing the efiergy which the Government had shown in moments
of danger, but he wished to prove that the previous organisa-
tion was defective, and that it ought, therefore, to be amended.
After a few words from Sir ROBERT PEEL,
Sir C. NAPIER said that they had at present at sea eight
sail of the line ; but they, in point of seamen, were two rates
below their proper weight._(Hear, hear.) It was only
the other day that the Gallant Admiral opposite found it ne-
cessary to increase the number of men in those ships, and be
could not have adopted a wiser measure. The Secre-
tary at War had stated, the other night, that no difficulty
was met with in finding persons willing to enlist into the army or
into the Ordnance, but he could assure the House that the
greatest difficulty was found in inducing sailors to enter the
navy. The Right Hon. Baronet had also spoken of the state of
their steam naval force. He could tell the Right Honourable
Baronet that in this respect they were inferior to their
neighbours on the Continent, who built their steam-vessels for
an increased number of men and weight of metal, while they
(the British) consulted only the rate cf speed in their
naval architecture,—(Hear, hear. ) He (Sir Charles
Napier) was glad to hear that there were 50,e00 efficient
pensioners—men able to bear arms in the country. Ile was glad
to hear this, because they, with a little training, and the
30,000, the standing army in England and Ireland, constituted
a sufficient defence against foreign invasion.—(flear, hear.)
The statement of the Noble Lord had taken a great weight off
his mind.—(Laughter. )
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
Messengers from the Lords brought up several Bills.
SUPPLY.
The House then went into a Committee of Supply.
On the motion that 80,300/. be voted to defray the superan-
nuetion of persons formerly employed in the civil departments
of the Government,
Mr. HUME advocated the improvement of the natural har-
bours of the country, that they might offer a better defence than
hitherto in the time of war, although he was a man
of peace and not of war, one hundred and fifty thousand
ships annually entered and left our ports—a number perfectly
astonishing when the smallness of the island was taken into
account—for which there was no proper protection in the na-
tural harbours of the country. He hoped that the Government
would assist nature, and devote a sum of money to what he had
suggested.
Sir R. PEEL thanked the Hon. Gentleman for calling their
attention to the subject. The report of the 'I idal Commission,
and his suggestions, should receive due attention from the
Government.
Mr. P. HOWARD wished to say a few words on the subject,
as he had attended a deputation from the Isle of Man, which
had waited en the Right Honourable Baronet with
respect to improving the unprotected harbours of that island.
The authorities of that island were ready to devote a portion of
their revenues,_ to this object if they were supported in their
efforts by the Government. Independently of the advantages
se hieh the construction of harbnurs or refge would confer
the shipping in that part of the empire,u
they wouldo be on
portant elements of national defence in the event of war. int-
Mr. WILLIAMS said the persons who received the vote had
in many instances rendered an important service to the country.
They had received large salaries, which enabled them to save
money, by which they might support themselves when unfitted
for active service. Their support fell heavily upon the country.
The vote was then agreed to.
A of the na vote
onal of I,Bsvaco/. was proposed for defraying the expense,:
ticine institutions. It agreed to.
5,000/. was proposed for the Refuge ferwas the Destitute.
In consequence of a suggestion made by Mr. HUME,
Sir J. GRAHAM proposed that it should be reduced to
the usual annual amount voted, namely, 3,0001. for the same
I urpee.e.
The vote of 3,000/. was then agreed to.
The next vote was one of 11,8004 for the Polish refugees
resident in this country.
Mr. BORTH WICK did not wish to increase the number of
refugees, but thought some additional grant ought to be made.
If the Right lion. Baronet could by any remonstrance with
the French Government prevent the transmisrien of refugees
from that country to this, he thought it would be highly
desirable. It was certainly a very heavy tax on
English benevolence, and money was expended on foreigners
to which our own poor had a prior claim, but there was no
alternative for these poor foreigners but starvation, if Parlia-
ment did not interpose.
Sir R. PEEL must decline making any remonstrance with
the French Government on the subject, arid he thought there
was some compensation for the expenditure! in the reasons Re-
signed for the refugees coming to this eourery. England
was the only country in the neighbourhood France to which refug
:t
ees would be admittedood o
after
being expelled from France, andhe refugees themselves
preferred England to any other country, "as being able
to enjoy the greatest toleration and liberty there."—( Cheers.)
However, France was at present encumbered with 11,000 of
these refugees—this country had 12,000, so that, in fact, the
number was nearly divided.
Mr. J. ABEL SMITH said, that it might not be out of
place in Lim to remark upon the intelligence—the melancholy
intelligence that had reached this city to-day, of another alarm-
ing fire in Quebec, by which 1,300 houses were burned and
thousands of poor people reduced to destitution and suffering.
He wished to know whether it was in the contemplation of the
Government to alleviate the sufferings of these poor people.
Sir R. PEEL said he had learned, with the utmost regret,
that another calamity had befallen on a previous similar
occasion. The Government then had done all that was
possible for the sufferers, and he felt confident that on this
occasion similar care and sympathy would be evinced. The
people of this country had exerted themselves in the most
creditable manner, and he trusted that a like benevolent
anxiety would be now evinced. He thought, however, that
Parliament should show its sympathy with their suffering
fellow-subjects, and he would propose a vote for that purpoin
on a future ocsion—the vote ,he thought it rigle ,to
say, be not so much for the purwouldp. r., as to
mark the sense of the House.— ore of raising ase
(Hear, hear.)
The vote was then agreed to.
,e nsions of minis-
had been
A vote of 4,932/. was proposed to pay the P
tors belonging to the dissenting congregat
'was which
formerly included in the civil list,
'amendment, to the effect that
A DIE.
i r . Hc IANRDDL:
EY preparedL
osend the amendment and supported
5,6581. paid to Independent Ininisters be withdrawn.
the original vote.
The House., awn divided, when there appeared—
For the original motion... ...................... 52
For the amendment ............... ..... 8
Majority against the amendment ...........
A vote of 2,1461. was then proposed, to defra ciatrities,
bounties, and other charges in Scotland. y
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the vote.
The vote was agreed to without a division.
A vote of 1,329/. was agreed to for defy
the House of Industry in Dublin, aying the expenses o
2,5001. was agreed to for the Western and Lock Hospitals.
1,5001. was voted to defray the expenses of Stephens's
Hospital.
WO/. was voted for the expenses of the Hospital of Incurables.
On the
and other mi v i
onisters te of 3526/.
an being proposed for Non-conforming
n Ir4eld,
Alr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD, according to notice, op-
posed the vote on account of its smallness, and proposed that no
less than 366,000/. be devoted to these clergymen.
Mr. WILLIAMS did not agree with the liberality of his
Hon. Friend, and opposed the vote on the principle that no
class of clergymen should be paid by the State.
Mr. HINDLEY objected to the vote on the same grounds,
anti said that these clergymen could have very little depen-
dence on the effect of their religion on their flocks, when they
looked to the State for provision.
Mr. HUME suggested that after the passing of the vote
no new recipients should be taken on the fund.
Mr. WILLIAMS, said if the lion. Gentleman would not
press the amendment to a division, that he would do so, as
his constituents objected to the State paying the ministers of
any religion.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the vote
Against it
Majority —sB
On the sum of 22,565/. being proposed for the colony i f
1‘ itrs Zealand,
Mr. J. A. SMITH asked the Right llonourable Baronet
for an explanation of the present position of the affairs of New
Zealand.

Sir R. PEEL said that this wa s not the time to enter into
a discussion of that subject. If the Honourable Gentleman
was desirous to open up the matter afresh, he would have an.
other opportunity for that purpose.
Mr. HOPE said that the present vote had nothing to do
with the matter to which the Honourable Gentleman alluded.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that this was the last colony which
should be dependant upon them for support. If a little care
were taken in its management, such a vote as the present would
be altogether unnecessary. It would be able to maintain itself.
Ile would recommend, in New Zealand, what he would all la
Political survey by properly appointed persons, and in every
district so surveyed, a power to be grantd to evy o ne,
whether white or black, to register himself,e with the erview of
voting, and when the country was so parcelled out into
counties, and not into states, he would recommend a general
representative system. Let not this great question resolve
itself into a petty squabble between the Colonia I Government
and the New Zealand Company, but exercise a broad and
comprehensive principle ; and then there would be an end to
those painful discussions which had lately occupied the time
of the House. t
Mr. HUME said that the way in which our colonists had
b: en treated all over the world required that Parliament
should pass an Act declaring what rights should be enjoyed by
the settlrrs in our colonies. He recollected the high hopes
that were excited, a few years ago, when that colony was first
settled, and he was much grieved since to find the evils
which had clouded them, and disappointed so many. All
the mischief, all the petty quarrelling and division
in the colony had arisen from the meddling of the Ilome.offiee.
He thought that no good could take place until the rights of
the colonists were properly defined, and a settled form of go-
vernment conceded. The United States of America managed
their colonies in a different way. When they colonised a tract
of country, they had it surveyed and sapped out, and the set-
tlers had a valid title given to them to the tracts of land allotted.
Had this been done in New Zealand, a great deal of the evils
which had overtaken that colony would have been avoided. He
implored the Right lion. Baronet to interfere and make a pm.
per settlement of the question, as no one trusted the N bie