The Sun.
London, England, 1816-02-14 00:00:00

PEACE ESTAELISFINIENT.

)tCIS.

Ur. 151i()GDEN OrOpt up the iteport of'the
Colkiiii;.l ye §upply. On the readhig of the 'first
liesolution for a grant cif 11,024;1001. to provide
for boot a udiug Exchequer Bills.
Mr. W. ‘ITYLOTE tool( thii opportunity of oh-
jectiug.to The whole. proposed scale of eipentli-'
rare. lie had supported fh&measures- of tire Hon:
ileutleuntu opposite for carrying sta the war luau

eifeetive t Assner, because Le-though( that, in
CreittelitJaces of the times we•conld only eNiect
the sliad..,w of peace, an armed truce, and that it
was preferable:4o voutinite the- contest until it
shouldhaveAteen brute lit to a termitAation, winch
would, sernre to the euiruttw' the 'tett' of
peacel.:; BUt' what wait the result; now tharrthe
ekertiOns of the conflict were cr.> isl pronOsal
(91. ttPeate Establishment, which >lO
all pOrITOSCS, te;p4 e'iiiiblishmeot for war•--77
Aye were now tOblc, that Afte extent of, Our con-
tiireqs retitle-tied the maintenance of 'lto hundred
and lofty-trine thousand. tutu nveessarY• Jilt we
bad been formoly assured, that, depiiving
Fiance of thrise,milittiefStations, we should be
able, at pitiee, 'to do witii:a
_IeSS et'?osid'erT
"We eirrablishment than ifShe were allowed to 're-
tain then. Our situation at the Close of the
American itiiar,
.htid alai bez.n referred to, but it
wits very different. Atthat time the ivhole world
were indispbSed ag.tittst us : the French miey
our., and that of Sts tin was powerful and
.threatening. . N4w, on the earlitnry, every it-
try iu Europe Was ournliv the French navy teas
itiniiinlated,''the'Freneli artily- disbanded, and yet
a Peace listablishinent was priaPoSed more than
double that to which we had submitted tther the
American war, lie hoped Ministers wonid be
,reitarettto explain the, re4son why, in our present
situation with the rest' of Europe, they were
Mit able. to reduce the prpposed Estahlislintent
iover titan titter any Other Peace. lie then ob-
served Ott the increase in the various heads of ex-
pense. t variations iu the Ordnance Depart-
ment. had been from :360,000/. to two Milliotts,-;:-
He was convinced that the increase in the army
alone rendured,the call of the property tax on the
people neCessary.
. ,
Mt. Bs'adt:ar had approved
.of the Property
Tat: doting the'COurie.of the war, because its vsol
now 'protested apinst its
then. necessary;, Ind be
renewal. Ile wl,hcci Other iliCdll3 should he
adopted of prOviding fint the service of the year:,
thrkt .a.tax whieh took from reft(s
which they cotild not get , and front tenants profits
Which' tiny eould not make.
11/411%•11orsex,thought that it was. vain for 'Gen.
ttemeo in the Iltinse, or for the country, to ex-
.pest that they could be
,relieved by any way bat
one, the reduction of the praposeil esttiblitl +whit,
I-101id not :know
.whether it was to try the ditt-
pusitiOn of Parliament that hints had been thrown
nat about the':Poss'ibility of relieving Alininters
from. .their difficUlties by it little limn, ibsteini of
the Ptoperty Ta%, but he declared that stichex.
pedients would (Hay tend
,to
front' Inc...opposite side )—Let theta wake out that
the expenditure whsle is they proposed was' neces-
sary,.andk!e world be-the'fitac tee vote for it.; hot
he was persuaded that it Was not„ and that but for
the present establiShinent whicb threatened the ll-
()ernes of the conntry, we shimild get free of that
odious„a-nd oppr6sit4i. tax. These epithets he bad
always thought just, eVen- voting for it,
when its existence' was compelled
ties of 'the :,..s.tate. But the real question:. for the
!louse to put toitscli now, was, whether these
neeskit.,iett' any hoilger existed, aye o(no. it wits
impossible/41)m Mittisters should make .otit the
necessity for kteping an estaiiliShment of 60,000
Men for the tiritisb ittland, find for the whole Eui-
piip of, \\',il the necessity' of detekt.3:
now greater titjtsS:thini at the elOserof the
rlrne-
ricsut then a poweiful county at
our doors with to navy 01:,41, it Out -tiliatoE to 0111.4;!
not no tic thenrvy and alloy of F overt: atiii
intrted, the navy tit ;Spain and Itolland Was g,otN.
Was called upon to vote
estahlishinent, in time of peace, the.nutiate,uallee
of, which for a few years wouild he utterly itleoin-
patible Witlt thelnaintetiance of 'the liberties and
,constitution tile eintioty
)Iwits a ittitjee.t to
alter the charaeter of the nation rtlHOvelY to
others a ions, and the nature of, its Constit wroti.
By nature we 11 et'.t.! To'' our o,4vy
Nev. owed our
,security stud ottr gtatideur.
'stets- might he :debuted by the 'slieW of milittry
glory, awl 'wish to make m m,n e corY take its rank
amongst the military despots of tie world, but it
was not in; natstre 1110-we. shotild 'keel) it lot*
'Either theCons'titution or the ,G..)verninent mosh
five-'way, and- 'in such a struggle, the contest on
the Tait of our, liberties would Hot he long. He
hopol 014 the Chaticelarr: of ifi'e tf.xchettner
would 'deed, that all hopes of economy would • .he'
tt4' long such cStablishineut •.I‘irridd
be.kept, The. only one thing that roidil done,
was• ti,, retrench and t:..: establishment,
and then relie(coald be. initialled.
The Cnisscat.t.ox of The F.,xcntkirfcx thonglst
that it,,would he premature: to enter into detailed
exitlitnatitio now. lie was happy to find tluit the
Gientletnan was diSitOfied to time( the (peti-
tion ,on- fair principles.. agreed with hint
that the, qiiet don. was it, (potion of establish,
went. On it Ministers must , stand Or fan, If
,they ,were not able to establish the necessity for
tin. proposed establishment, then' their whole
plati,oiAnince must be_oVerthrown. 131 it if, On

the other hand, as the lino. (144.ittleman had fairly
liked, they could makti out the ilecessitflor 811Cil
WI establishment., (lieu
peTliture which they Ow :-propoited would stand
confirmed, ' IVith respect to the
:establishment
itself., Goverment would have tin opportniijiy pf
entering into details nit the subject, Wilt!) ho
ttlisted, they would be mble to stibstkintiate'the 116.

Cessity,of every propositinn. .yiestion was
now placed on its fair ground, unit lie Shoidd
tbereforeOnly sald,:that the liberties of England
b'avitig been supported so !Ong nxidtir ait establish.
tuent,oflBand2o,ooo men, could not be ing.reat
di-tiger fec, n one of 25,00.

Mr. Tien/al' agreed that but. iittht danker %vas
co be avprebended from the' 25,000 men them.
Sewell. Ile did not fear they, trotild turn their
swortis agaiwA the throats 01 his :‘iajesty's`sUb-
Bitt he dreaded the influence which such

an army would create; and which tv'ait the more
alarming, tis sltould it
,lie te4iited iti its encroach-
ments there would he a large military force to put
tfitt I;iwEitl resiStance„, As 'touch tlB it WHS,
in his ,power, therefOre, he would soitenl an aliatn
from one end of the land to the' other, The
H9nsa would disgrace itself, if, on Buchan occa-'
Sion, it did not demand a *call of
,its
to 'oppose so monsoons a- propositioq,„ 'The
Noble Lord Opposite - might simile (Lord
Castlereagh), he was right to do it, for he

was conscious Of his strength ; end until the
rTibject should be taken up out of doors by the Pe-
might smile, for ' ion; Of the people, -he well with-
in
these walls lie had nothing to-Areadr intuit, -
sent jwoposal Wits one which ~.,endatigerell;, rj
only the phrsei, but the liberties of the country.—
Toe Cbancellitt, of the Exchequer said that the
tiutli'tion was 'Olive placed- on efdir grotind,.and
that explanations would he given to substantiate
the propriety of. every article. But what intim-
mai ion vohld Ministers produce which was not al-
re itiv t...no'r.'n, to all ? In times of waiLkheyntight
have exclusive sources of intelligence, 'but in
peitee every thing Was Open to the pa,bkic. And
tiiii'-WaS t)OW uperiod of peace -the eiertiOns of
the Noble Lord had trauquillized titions, and
the Noble 'Lcird wore his blue ribbon, 'only be-
Canse he had established the peace of Eurape. Bar
let him drop his blue ribbon, or:his Peace Esta-
blishment, for those two things could not gotoge-
I her. nithetto `the exertions of the :country had
been encouraged, by the assnrance.th4t they were
made to gain indemnity for the past and security
for the future, Both were' niiw. attained ; but
what was the rise of that security ? That ugh itl
must become a military country ! The Navy could
bear to be reduced to only 5090 men more than in
in 17f4 ; but the' Army was swelled from 3.71,-gut)
t0'150,000. I. It was only in older to retail) their
'places that Ministers wished to establish that, nil
litary system,. It was out. to degrease their:• sup-
porters with their' patronage arid he had no
doubt it would be easier for them to pay olk ten
sail of
,the line than re; intent
of hussars. For years had they encouraged a ml.
litary spirit through tile country. To be sure
there were fewer attractions in a bluff tailor than
inya fine gentleman with mustachios and whishets.
What could be more splentilid,totollan the descrip-
tions of grand reviews, the effect of a new cap,,or a
line dress? Nit the people Lad to pa'y meal! that
and the &Inger was not only one of inert}, Gut "vine
of ban ruPtiy. That word was not too strOng,
was surprised that the Chancellor of the L,Celic-
quer, although' no man Conk, go ssith a mine
steady countenance through millions, should Say
that the revenue was flourishing, and the distressesl
of the country temporary; for What'could be inore
alarming than his. speech last night. lly doing
withant .a loan, said that Right Hon; Gentleman,
the public credit would be invigorated, and a sum
of 14 Millions, wonhl be thrown into circulation
for the benefit of. the people ! But virtually,there
'was a loan now exiiting. Time Chancellor of
file Exchequer had raised 36 minibus by loan lait
year, and of these rentahted in the
Bank, which the public could not take off.- He
believed lie was not iiseorrcct. It might lob
said there Were Only eleven but lie
thought it was nearer twelve than eleven. What
a pressure would not this produce on the public,
&
if the Bank bad not consented to-, prcdong the
payments.: had the Bank .acted differently, and
called Upon, Gentlemen fitr: their last-payments,.
the fUnds would be more. materially loiecred than
the,' Were at present, . He theti.entered into a de-
sct idit km, of :the, regular mode of payments, and
esked what good would the throwing of
into citeulatiou prOduce, when 12 millions
'were to be taken out of it ? The total of the
Peace Establishment was upwards of 29 millions.
Of this vote 23 millions were under military heads,
—lt was sitid that it sliould not be taken fit a ce.:,
puldr fil,tahlkhoo•nt. bur ~,hot flittarts
;j „ction take place in it ootild'tint be pre7
'cisely. 'stated. A Noble Lord bad spoken. of
eight ii, iiiun but for his part be should take it
Est three millions, which would. redact -the \e liOIP
to about 20;500,0001. Was not such 'a PeaCe
Establishment Most itt.bn;litioc!„ Bat G, ntlemen
skid the Irish proportion must be deducted out of it.
This he called falltiCy t :s'econd. T.ltat'propor'•
,tit.)it was estimated 'at 2,900,0001'.' ; but where
were those two millions to come from ? Was there
any chance that Ireland; iii her situation, after
paying leer own debt, would be able to pro‘ide
for this proportion I Were we all at once to be.-
ve that 'Vaa n! would pay thatl.' He did-riot
believe one word, ar one sbillinz of it: Even hi
0)11'6.64 Orennistancea she could not
She had hitherto gone on. but by loans, ant
we, must expert oin 'receive, but to. give her
assistance. 'rids he AiSp'o!it:tl and
ltc hived n tiene would shone WhenElie would
have -it in her power to assistus in her turn.— ~
But such an e p e t. tat.). tj was fallacious now.—
ll'ith,respeet to thelVayS and Memo, be. thOught
that ia times of peace they should be mentioned
before the Supplies. In' war, it,was Idle first to
state the actual seams, ant thin to stud!) every
nerve CO meet the necessary .exuen.ses. lde wished
the House wool,' have fi.r'st considered whatit had
got, as-it would • have been an additional argu-
ment to enforce retrenchment. What . bad the
(...hancellor of the Exchequer got for the service of
the-year.? First, three of.Stirplus,of unap-
plied ?grants, That was very good, but once paid,
nothing morerensained.flealstithoughttheamount
of the surplus ought to have beep greater, and
wiSliqd to know what int 4 becOtne of it. it Was
for the Noble Lord to say why. we should pay mo-
ney to Rossi* for,beittging more men into-thefleld
than we had hiagained.for. The Chancellorof the
Exchequer said that there had been. an, improve-
ment of one. in: '
the revenoe • ,liking
the years, as be.hatttioue,„that imprOvemeUt tiiigltt
seem real: Hut if the year were taken from the
month of July, 1,814, to July-, 1-3-15, it would -he
perceived that.there wits a falling. off
,of one mil-
The former year hail prnduced 67 tirit-
}tans, ant) ttac Dist Dray (6 When the: Right Ho.
flourishing a state, how came it that be only
estimated the surplus' of. theCunsalidated Fnria •
tit •Z,500,000/, which. Abe year 'before he had
taken at three millions ? There was; however,
for the 'a ey'ice of the year, 2,500,000/. 'front'
thatAtinrce. '',ro that were to bt., ;added three
anliiiiihMreofut,tel.;.l(74d6ilnlficye board rand hilt fax,
which, by the. Chancellor of the ,Rxcliegiter' millions acid u ;
i?el.yur"hipht°,l7fi.‘",eg'i'll%evTelittvi iebeeocf";;;Ye yea; Th'lts
fhet, all that lie :hail got.peotts he oat. to
'I here :sitig.tt be
other resources of a different kind, but Aracnot.
this 'may alarming ? The Wir Taxes bentmotet! at stx tt)illic~rls, wool' bole
deaigtied tiers the Wiz T r;s of. hCit'fit'Ottu. iCheartitei'dr"lLlWx.l;.
e up in t e wao.e •
itleven and., a it •

I

tilssehslotofulrd be
efusincgontitu
public
ted innlopenetteye,,b:p'dotntnil:occ,),gni a
iii,t
of the impossibility of collecting theta. At sock
t4o t isnnt smuggling, gt gh leiYn offered the
was ‘a greatest
in
i u
great
prevented during the war, by the- number of
vessels at the disposition of Government. lig
-Itepeould ask any Gentleman in the House, it he
:{really thought the of 95 per cent. on tea.,
et:it su
irangleeainet
riet.
-would be paid in time of peace i• Other duties °1
that sort could be enforced to their full eNtcot,
unless the country should go to an expense itt 01;
naval establishment ,equal to the revenue 01 the
tax itself.
_Taking all these circuniseinces
elrtshiie.ielr vaa tiroin.,isxhee,diida tint p
ot
eriod of
think tltatpteiaic.
eepr:itst4
o
I: mount-to more than four millions. 'But.
euett
should, it rise to six, the whole amount .of WAYs,
mill Means would only be eleven mrnion: anti
an half, to meet an expeniiiture of eigh"ell
supposing IsVe tier
Pta°l::
a
The Right Honourable
.Vientlenten moo thetT•
ti
fere obtain the rest from other quarters. lie
ic"ortult hpinotistiLolec°s7itot:diricitOtrte (I),u5it be kOOl ; that l
,000(?1
trays and Means, anti yet he had the face to Caine
down anti proptise such a Peace
He had no right to do that moil he should lea"
satisfied every man in the country that the
latice'betWeen the expendithre aild receipts
equal. Feu-Abet purpose let . him adopt a plop
course, and agree to the appointment of a Cnuovi
mittee to inquire hit° the state of the cotooll, d
its expenditure, and receipt's. Many taxes st°(i
in momentary jeopardy of momentous ilecr",s in
.
times of neace,.though, from the mode iu vil"c"t
was going on, he was likely to provide ktOinst
in oli a
i
diminution thosen belts,caps,untiotlier andeles
irratc
ikfthilitaryaccoutienient. Considering our °e'l--1 ltd
kit had till', he would sound the alarm ;
that not a aingle Petition would be
the *House, without containing a passage ‘vol'ithem i
M ".,
i*gai"st the dangers of expensive esiabli'',4
Mews. Ministers might count, as they 01"1111
upon a majoi ity ;
,but lie confidently heliev
that that majority would receive instructions few;
their coustituents,as soon as they were iiitorm7t
what WitS going on, and that they would deft"
s,
proper to obey them. At. any rate Ministers
Soon give time most explicit informatioo ; they
will haye to inform the llonse why it is tills
the military establishment Of the CountrY 1:1
been made so much to exceed the otisi';tl
establishment, and ; why Great Britain is t° it
loaded with expense throngh entangling hci„s'E.
in Continental-politics. As
,to the Property, 1.;
he would: declare his firm opinion, that if wit
eople would submit. to bear half of ,it, they "'fiat
-lolly entitled to be -saddled with the whole.
would say agiin
_to Ministers, -you stoat re(11Ir.
'c
your establishments -to a prOper peace establi*
ment, which'wilt- be the only real earnest yoh et;
give the .public-of yroir good inteotions. Noh‘"7"
could believe; if it was deterniined to nii{intalti,
those establishments cm the- indicated' footittg:
that there wit-spot same secret object tot.tt°c`:.,
immense regillations„ If peace hail beeri-aceouta •
plished for Europe, and it bid fair to hold.o,l!b-ls ,
was inctiinbent to show ou what possibi gmtt.„.ll
see Cottlit want 411 xll,tztC►ttat~ uiilit:tr eel shit
inent of not leas. than 150,000.0044-,; -
Lord CASTA.G.ItaAIiH felt it oeceskaey to
sonic point of the Right lioti.-bentleMaicsspecoi!
though there could be no doubt-that a totrir%, oc •
casion would be more proper for him • to^ '14".illt";
the general arguments itrising.aot of thiquesti°o
for thellouse must fee} that, Wherever thiglit 131
,whUht be,quitb impossible to come to nn/
decision, at present. He should , therefore cadl
-confine 'himself to a few remarks on the night
Hon. Gentleman's- speech. He telt astonished
ffiit the Right [lon. Gentleman should do such it"
justice to, his own talents as to argue agai"'C
the conduct and system of the Government °'".
;.partial grounds,. wit hoot
tilinglookin fairly: at
lotirse a events. NVas any more ahsot
that! to assert, that because the' e were no 100:
in the market, there could be ito pressure in it -
Time largest loan that ever was. made took eLic't
last year; and he c:lll,se, there remained ten or.
twelve millions of that loan to be paid tip, wss
this au orpiment to Authorise the Right Homier'
ahle Chattel-Ilan to attack „and I.4eak .down Chit
Whole system of taxation of:the country; clu,`;
entleavotir to destroy the pnblic. confidence ?
tine inarteti Were not sustained, it was
I to expect to have the influx of capital which o'l
!tight Honourable Gentlemen argued last yea'
we could hot- iitice, took the ii'dys
Means of the year, lie went through) the filet
`ltaxes,, and he envied against their bcittg.l"•
diettive; brit the Itiglitilon. tientleinan'targll"
meats always bore that tincture of.itespotolincf
which had pervaded them ou ulmast;every occki:
sion for the. last liftece
_or sixteenyears but e
was happy to. say that this agile of theitight Hriiti•
Gentlentart had mat affected the tone or nerve!,,
the country. ,We Inure siirvived the difficelt°
that assailed us, and have i•elieverl the
noarable. Gentieetan from_ fris alarms. Bdt tlje
cottatry iris also the .proild satisfactiott to k°";.,,,_:t
that occasional resoarces are always preseu"'"
themselves,
and they rvtll always be re powerfal re-. • '1
lief, to Ipng as the public funds are nplield, ,mat i
the public credit ne.iintained. Titerefore,,liew"' [
say, do not let the country htediscurnaged,
time when nothing reinaies to he .done but t.c
hseacvienoehttitto:nsevig;oreratit3
;a iill%;:tei iti saes
i:,ll,)twi,elitiettlii te
sytittrijiiew!;?cretiost.,
tipoo the iti,waiit idea, ttmonded on soch'Blolll •
at atiect thel/iglit Honourable Gentleipatestniill;:
that a System of taxation is intended which .911 it
produce their ruin. SO tar tom what the ttily
llntiorrraltlt Genacinaif had said agniaßt the Deft=.i 7
perty Tex being' argnment for' its being
rented with, hit ohiervations timid direaly agolnst
Ia
the proposition. What he ha N Lacs said ee iso Togy,i
conclusive arguments why the Propeta y Tax eh°ll;
not be ireproviaeutly dispensed witn ; uiict
the colatty shoelii relieved frotti
tiny
tiew
altogether ; he bad nor fliav met I t;t: questil".
•
He (fiord C..) would maintain titer if ti.,eseektaiu
to
blislimeitts, so deprevated by the Eight
Gendenten and his friends, were Ise ate; urc'
ss4.ry, for the country, they could toe he toet - Fiend
oilic.e system than that which his It 4 .
.had proposed. plc whole question .ts,whethei ti ,
11.CCeSSititi v 4 the State required ii4C5O C"

rhente or not Htewas tit;ty preppreil to enter into,
that eptestion when6er the opportunity should'
alive, even thi, night, if it :were deemed neces-.
'eary ;''but the House must feel that this would
only be wasting their time, when it was not pos.
bible to come to any cOnclusion `he must, how,
tever,. congratulate the house in having—made
considerable progress in the•subject, The 'ins.;
Jim) was clearly enderstood, and it only remained
to be discussed, whether a Peace Etablishment,'
.entottpting to nearly 20 millions, coul'il be jiistis'
Eedishe would beg the House to secollect, that
:they were not now arguing on-the question of 30
snillious, but only on- 20 millions. As to the
notion which the Right Honourable Gentleman
bad endeavoured toestabli.th, he should be some-.
thief.; alined of the principle, • if he should
think that thii country apes the policya the con-'
Illicitly( Governments, in raising large armies to
Wake Otuselves a military nation, and imitating
their powerful y strength. Such a .pre.
Irosterous notion had never entered the heads of
.3.lliiiiters. We were, a power ltd. naval nation,
end this being the height- of our ambition,'ilur
reilitary efforts were confined to the extent
re-
oiuired by our commanding situation. As to the
peace, he would say that he should never have
confidence in it, or in airy peace, till he saw the
authorities of every country ,in Europe_en-
ihroned, superior to, as they ought, and taking
precedence over all the military establishments
Of their respective States. (Hear, hear !) The
Military mania of the Continent was an evil,
that time only could cure ; for such a ink.
hwy. interest had been excited in every mind,
7asst he should never consider the march of public
'taaire to be likely to go on in a right course till be
cox the military spirit of the Cominent abated to
its proper level. Ile therefore could not recome
Mewl to his country to leave itself without the
•
weans of aresurrection of its strength, if time and
circumstances. shoeld render it necessary. The
ltight Hon, GeUarlll4(ltt ho expressed so much
alai in at our Peace Establishment now, was
7denth:r of the Government et the time 4, the.
Peace of Amiens; and, when the establishment
was formed after that peace, he did not conceive
that the spirit of the Country was gone, when be
proposed forty-seven thousand men Ide England
soul twenty-three thousand for Ireland. Was thii
comparatively mote necessary titan the• amount
popused at the present period ? We might-be told'
that.the army of -France was now disbanded : he
ould grant it ; but he .would contend, that it.
. was not in that state which ought to prevent this
country adopting due means of precaution.
If the Right Hon. Gentleman thought Miaistera
were not as anxious as he and his friends could.
be to have the subject fully discussed, he Would-
bay, that he totally inisunderstorul the policy on
which they act. They were ready to have a call
of the House, and the Right Hon. Gentleman
might move it. in order to procure a full attepd,
since, whenever he pleased ; he (Lord C.) would
trot oppose it ; fur he should feel rejoiced to i
dispatch the question in the largest assembly
1113; could heobteieed. The Ministers wOuld
call on the pLople for aid, and the good
sense of the peopleaerruhl not tvithdraw their cone
&vice from Government, because they were told
that it was necessary -for them to preserve what
hail been acqte'red, ,J).l firmucts and perse-
IferibCt. The Right. Hon. Gentleman, lee was
'ell'res Would not be able to put to hazard these
gre3Linlvantages; by partial censure andattifounde
ed clatnour. His Mhjesty's Government wits even
more Anxious to atbird relief to the people titan
tehey Could' possibly be to receive it, and they must
e convineed that nothing but the most powerful
necessity' could induce the 'Government to call up.
Ott ;them. •to -the pit ronage of the Crown,
'this was-.a *urn out subject with theaighellon.
lieneleinan and his Frauds, nod wavgonly resort=.
:ed to when. all other argoments had feiltl.ese
:It wos, the Owlet to. which the Opposition
vetteatedou desploate occesions, and in which they
'Akio themselves cp, as their forloru hope. (Hear!)
He aid not think flint those ,hlto..know. how all,
It'irehly impertielly oheeoinirs of the army
were admiuktered her the illustrious Personage ne
lie head of thee importaut Department would be
tikt: away Ity atiy such false insinuations. Eve6y
holy k l'etymage was is
liters iuflueoced•byconsiderations of Party, as ail
;no alive ;• and, the-Right Hon. Gentleman and.
bits. friends, knew well, .alibotigb: they.wereinot in
the Government, that they could go to his Royal.
Highnerts red I 'commend- any trifieei• of talents,
:Willull!_tv(T Meeting wide. 4 negative. In.-fact;
, there...was .say one hrtinch of the Govern. '
tneot„against which, more than another, the.
charge of undue patronage would not.in any way
; it the tine its spiest ion—it Was :the -ode
ithiqe all others hi whien such patronagt.T-ould
lover he olgaioed. Rem.; ing to the subjeut of the,
military establishment, his Lovilship• observed,
sher thie.waS, toe
.the occasion Ott
.which he could
aulimit the local considerations which inthienced
Goeernoteet n particular number of men were
eppoioteti tootle service mote than to another ;
tut would pledge himself to sheet, by comport!,
*nos. between the Peace Li'itablislimeto,. of 1792:
and ISo2,•relat the expeece of the Right Ho-
nourable tientletuan's army in the letter. year. .
would have been to the country. At present)
instead of the bugbear of t Iv? Peace E'soahlishmeut,
nesting the ciruntry thirty millions, the Right •
Getoleman had relieved us tram the night-,.
hairs of ten millions.. ilia lie (Lord C.) only
irkted to reserve the full coesideration of the
subjeer for the present, and when, it come to he
d!ketissed, be lionht teeely state wirer the col'itii-
4ferathins tire that reinier necessary so large AU
eat-allies} trtcitt ; after this, he trusted the Right
ninon-rabic Genii-email would be prepared to
Mute what branch any reduction .soarer be ,
1a .''le. fiat, at all events, be Apprehended he
‘5..001 not be able to shake the policy. ot
,1"14.....1,000 men in Ireland, end 25,005 in Eng-
laud, with as view to casualties and oar tWces: .
"11 severity: He felt certain, that whatever
the eimise of objections might be that would be
Thilde on the other 'side, they would prove: LIP"
*?"11'1. Hon 'be Was sure that the country would
Wait (14 this occasion, and bear the necessity that
Ix,isted. whit the game patieoci tool good tv II aas
it bad ilispleeed throughout the tsar: The ,g4°:`
stelis'e tha peOple would ilidueOliCal to.‘Vait_tmt
Litt sitt/j-il hatlbeeu amply ditetiseed by their rc» •

•
pretentatives, Ann . mr.itlpmt:A43pleion that Gu4
vernment Would lead..tkemseives tO force any tint
illeCeSSßry establishment WV the nation-, hiefr bat
30 nobly sustained itself throughout the 1000--.;
.
"grand, and trying contest.
Mr;. lily toe; faulty.- denied that the prtiSeiTh
Nation Of tile *country was analoeimi t 43 the situa-
'tion of
_the ,councry .at, the, Peace of Amiens.: At
'the last. mentioned period Holland and ,Spain were;
under. the' direct influence of Buonapart e, who
possesso._,a4 ; unbroken arm.y.. At present Hol-
land was our Ally, Spain was.our Ally, and Bun-
imparte %vas at Sr. Helena. With r,?spect to what
the Noble Zoril had said of . the hostility to pa-
tronage as being the citadel of opposition, he had;
been bred in a different sihoollroni-the Noble-
! lie had always undrritbod that it was the
4,94,.. of that Itonse to watch with jcalptisy the
patronage' of the Crown, and not to comply to
any measure from persona' -respect' towards' the
whtthertounnander in Chief orZther-
whoinfit.thight originate. ~Without any
reference to the nanowledged-merits of the tire-
sent illustriots Commander in Chief, it 'was
kilOW it to be,in the liature Of things iniiirssible
but that the possession of tuilithry:patronage,mtmt •
be. a source of great influence to Ciovtroment,
Who hail therefore an ititrest in tgiending' it in
all its various departments. Li •
The ReSojntion. was then- agreed to,- as were
all the others.
On the motion of the CuANcet.t.on of the Es-.I
CHEQUER, it ryas ordered• lliaT the Hoty•e should
to• motility resolve itself into a Committee of
Ways and Means,
Allmy OF occurxrcox.

Mr. HOTINKa asked whether any ohjection
would be made to thr prodnction of a copy of the
agreement between the Allies, to regulate the ap-
portionment or the Army of Occupation in France.
If not, he should then move an address.to the
Throne for theproduction•of it. •,
Lord e•STI.V.REACH had no objection to pro-
duce it, end sai'd it should be laid upon the table
the following dtty. • •
FRENCH CONTRIBPTIONg.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH asked, whether anv pay-
Meats already made,by France, as part of the in-
deMnity to, this country, had been considered as a
droit of the Crorn; or as "applicable to the 'public
scr• ice ?-

The CHANCELLOR or the Ex.: nEcttion was not
prepared lo .resolve-that question. It was not a
case in which he was competent to give irregular
()pinion, hut it would he referred to tilt: prOpCy
legal authority.

IVYNtat asked what bec:truc 4* the
700',0001. whia, he understood, had already been
paid..
The C0.47.4met.L0a of the 'EXCHEQUER Itati, no
objection. to .state,
.thrit of this, 400,0(101. or
100,0001. had Keen applied to the British-
chelt at Paris.
• Mr. %V. WvniNi said, the House should have.an
aecurate account of sums applied to•the- publfe
service—particularly of sums applied to the set.-
vice of the army,, without the knowledge or eon,
sent of Parliatnent. .

Mr..BROUGIiAN expressed his surplice, that no
legal opinion should have heea taken upon
question tit whether these sums were or were not
droits of the 'Crown, and that,withont any deci-
sion upon that pOint,the Money had been applied.
Lord CNSTOIREAGII Said, that, even though Ow
money bad bc.At appropriated, there was still no
irregularity., as the Crown .world be looked talon
as the trustee of the army, and the question, Its to
the right in the money, Might be afterwards,de-
eided. It was 16 be regarded as a prize ot the
'army, and not only ot oars, hut of how otthree
or..four• other Sovereigns. The appropriation
untold not; he repeated, prejudice the ultimate tie.
eision of it, whether •it come under the 'class of
droits of the Crown or not,

BRou GH AM wa, principally anxious to know
%I-I-tether a leg4l opinion had been taken upon it.
„Mr. IiAttING postponed his notice, relative to
the lute transuct ions at 'Ceylon.