The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-12 00:00:00

LIVERPOOL .AND BURT RAILWAY.

The Committee appointed on this Bill met in the Rolls' Cour
this morning, at eleven, Lord Clanricarde in the chair,
Mr. Thomson, civil engineer, was called—He stated that the
length of the line from Liverpool tti Bolton was twenty.five miles,
and an additional five miles to Bury would make a total of
thirty miles. There was a branch to Ormskirk, and another
shorter one—making altogether thirty-four miles. The gra-
dients were not in the least objectionable, the most unfavou.
rable being 1 in 90, for a distance of three-and-a. half miles, and
1 in 97 for four miles. The estimate for construction was 911,7824
17s. sd. It was intended to connect the line with the Liverpool
docks, at present in course of construction, and thus facilitate the
coal traffic from the pits to the vessels lying there.
Messrs. liawkeshaw and Forsyth, civil engineers, were called to
corroborate the evidence of the first witness, and the Committee
then adjourned till eleven on Monday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
GROUP A.

The Committee met this morning at the early hour of eleven
o'clock, and according to agreement, the case on the part of the
promoters of the

MINSTER AND DEAL LINE.

was about to be opened by Mr. ALLIANDER, when
Mr. Sergeant Waswoussr, on the part of the North Kent Com-
pany, applied for permission to appear on the part of that Com-
pany, to oppose a part of the preamble of the Bill, on the ground
that the Company had a competing project for next session.
The Committee refused to admit the argument of Mr. Sergeant
Wrangham, as the North Kesel. Company had actually ceased to
exist.

Mr. ALEXANDER then addressed the Committee on the part of
.he promoters cf the line, and called

Mr. C. Kingsmill, the Mayor of the town of Deal, Mr. Richard,
a resident at Deal, and other witnesses spoke to the advantages to
be expected from such a railway communication as this line would
afford.

Mr. Kean, a resident at the town of Sandwich, was then called,
and gave evidence in favour of the line, which he said would give
great accommodation to, and therefore confer great benefit on, the
people of Sandwich.
Mr. HORNE, on the part of the corporation of Sandwich (who
have the tolls of a ferry on the river Stour, over which river th.s
line will pass) was about to cross.examine the witness, when
Mr. ALEXANDER said that his friend, Mr. Horne, had no locus
standi before the Committee.

Mr. HORNE contended that the railway would convey passengers
to the same spot with which the ferry communicated, and therefore
that it would injure the ferry. The Learned Counsel argued the
point at great length, but after a few words from
Mr. ALEXANDER, who contended that this line would not injure
tl,e ferry, and that even if it did his Learned Friend, Mr. Home,
would have no right to appear before the Committee,
The CHAIRMAN said that the opinion of the Committee was that
Mr. Horne had no locus standi, and therefore could not appear in
opposition to the Bill.
_

..
Mr. W. Lee, Solicitor, at Sandwich, gave evidence in favour of
:he line.

Mr. Coxhead, coach proprietor at Sandwich, and Mr. Crump and
Mr. Slaver, residents at Ramsgate, corroborated the evidence
of the previous witnesses, and spoke to the advantage to the people
of Ramsgate to be expected from this line.
Mr. George Stephenson gave engineering evidence as to the pro.
posed line. The length of the line was 8 miles 7i furlongs. The
line, as originally proposed, would be 10 mi.es, but the omission of
the extension to Walsall, reduced the length to the amount stated.
The cuttings and embankments were very slight, as the country
through which the line passed was nearly level the whole way.
The line crossed the river Stour about a mile and a half from
Minster. The river would be crossed by a swing bridge
of 40 feet span. The line would cross eight public roads
on a level, but these roads had but very little
traffic. The expense of the whole line was estimated at
157,0001. for the Minster and Deal branch, and 30,0001. far the
Margate Extension, making together 187,0001., which included
land and stations. The steepest gradient on the line was lin 264.
There was no curve with asmaller radius than a quarter of a mile.

Cross.examined by Mr. HILL (on the part of some opposing land-
owners)—The estimates were for a double line. It was intended
to lay down only a single line of rails in the first instance, but it
might be necessary to have a double line at some future time.
Mr. Cubitt gave evidence of no public interest as to the proposed
Margate Extension.
Mr. Clutton, land.valuer, said that the value of the land which
would be taken by the Company for the line was 24,0001.
Mr. Thomas Armstrong produced tables of the available traffic
of this line. The total amount of traffic expected would be 6,592/.
Ils. 6d., which left a net revenue of 3,9551. 108 10d.
The CHAIRMAN observed, that by the request of a Member, who
had business to transact in the country, the Committee would ad-
journ to Wednesday.

Mr. ALEXANDER said that there really was no bona fide opposi-
tion to the line, and he thought the case could be easily concluded
if the Committee would meet for an hour on Monday.

After some discussion, the Committee adjourned to twelve
o'clock on Wednesday.

GROUP X.
YORK LINES.

The Committee rnet this morning at twelve o'clock, Lord Cour-
te nay in the chair.

Mr. Sergeant WRANGHAM contended that the notices tendered
yesterday to Mr. Webster were not sufficiently specific to justify the
opposition which had been made to the London and York Ilne.
That at the Greenwood lane, Ross, and at Robery Common, might

serve the purpose of the promoters, but the others were fr.r too
vague to justify the objections legally, and he was quite satisfied

that they could not be sustained.
Mr. AUSTIN, on behalf of the Eastern Counties Company,
contended that there was a defect in the evidence which
could not now be obviated. The precedent established in
the Portsmouth group held ht this case. The report of the Board

of Trade was to be taken into account, and though that decision

was not to be binding, yet, notwithstanding that decision, the
Committee had determined to give the accesses to the town cf
Portsmouth. Now, the parties for whom he appeared, had
certain portions of the lane to which they were especially
entitled, and he contended that the line between Biggleswitde and
London was certainly open to objection, and on that principle he
should assert his right to be heard in favour of the Northern and
Eastern Company, especially when it was recollected that this
Company hcd made the line which immediately led from the
metropolis. The Committee on the Portsmouth had decided that three
accesses should be given to that town. The whole of the evidence
for the London and York line had been received, and he thought
that he was fully entitled to adduce evidence in favour of another
line. He held, therefore, that the Committee were incompetent to
come to anydecision which should invalidate any other line—perhaps
a better line—between the two termini. This decison could not be
arrived at before they had the whole of the evidence before them.
He had evidence to tender that would materially affect that deci-

sion, which would in fact show that another and a better line could
be made to the north than that proposed by the London And York
Company.

Mr. HILDYALLD wished to inquire whether the decision was only
on the London and York, or on the access to the northern counties.
He felt assured that is here better means of communication were
proffered, he was perfectly entitled to give evidence of the advan.
tages which would be obtained by taking some other route.
Mr. Hope said that he had been waiting sixty days to be heard,
and he hoped on the sixty-first day he should not be refused the
opportunity of giving evidence on a portion of the line.
The Committee then retired to consider whether this evidence
should he received, and, after some time, declared that they could
not at present give any decision, and they would therefore go on
with the traffic evidence on the Tottenham and Farringdon-street
line. _

Levett, a measurer connected with Bow-street Police.office,
testified to the facility which would be afforded by the Farringdon-
street station, and asserted that Belgrave.square would be de-
cidedly nearer by that station than by one by the King's:crqss sta-
tion. Portman square would be about the same distance. yath
respect to Grosvenor.square there would be but little chfferer!fyi.latit
the facilities for communication to all the bridges by the 4i'fp.-0.6-:
don-street station would be the greatest.

Mr. Berks, a miller, having the largest mills in London, stated

that be ground 600 quarters a week, and that his mills being
situated ju-t beyond Blackwall on the Thames, were most con-
veniently situated for the reception of corn by water. the heel
a considerable quantity of corn from Lincolnshire, partly for Mix-

ing, but a good deal was used alone. In consequence of
.ccintrary
wins,a last winter they had been kept out of cons for six. weeks.
By h, use of the Farringdon-street st tion they wcu'd save
the metage. That station was situated in a large con-
suming district, indeed the most populous district
in London. There were more bakers' shops in it than in any
other district. The cartage from the former to the port ,trasfrcl.
quarter, loading 2ii. a quarter. Other expenses were pretty.much
the same as on other merchandise, Allowing Is. for merchants,
profits, 3d. for insurance, and id. for metage, the whole expenses
amounted to about sd. a quarter. The expenses might be stated
at I/. 75. 6d. a ton, and there would be a saving of at
least 3s. fid. a ton by this station. The total charge
including freight, was 11. 19s. girl. The usual charge for car-
riage was Sd. a quarter, and having the option of the Farringdon-
street station and the Thames Junction station, he should certainly
use the former. The saving. suppose the price by rail and the
freight were the same, would be 10d. a quarter, and without taking

ime into consideration, he should certainly use the rail. The

whole saving by rail would be 17s. 6d. a ton. With respect
to time and certainty the advantages were immense, for now
they were obliged to keep large stocks, and in considera-
tion of delay there was this difference, that corn would

be sold at Mark-lane at one month's credit, instead of at two
months, as was now the case. The western districts had greatly
interfered with the form of the existence of the railway. There
had been a large crop in the neighbourhood of Reading, and it
was only by going down into the district that they had been able
to nullify that competition. A considerable quantity of wheat went
from Lincolnshire into the western districts, though not through
London.
" '

To the cross.examination of Mr. PAGET, the witness stated
that even if they did the work themselves, the dealers would
have to pay the 4d. a quarter, and the advantages he said were
so great, that though his mills were on the river, he should use it.
He expected to bring back the corn by the back carriage of those
waggons which delivered the flour at the bakers' shops in the north
district of London. His connexion comprised an area of 14 miles,
and though the Shoreditch station might be useful for the imme-
diate neighbourhood, and a good deal of wheat would be brought
there, yet the Farringdon-street station was by far the best ; and
though there were other good stations, the Shoreditch and the Far-
ringdon- street must continue to be the best.

Mr. n
oLane testified, tt Oh thee ,
hpoloesitolofnsthomfn t
wer
ed i lteirtyi eisn,g but
she:
e
and distilleries, or how many should be considered as one or the
could
other.
To the cross.examination of Mr Sergeant WRANGHAM the witness
stated that they only claimed a portion of the traffic on the old
coach line. Five rni:es and a haif was the distance which he
claimed, and certified the table which had been put in. They assumed
that the whole of the omnibus traffic would produce upwards of
41,060/. including Tottenham, Edmonton, and all the places within a
few miles, and considered that the passengers ought to be taken as
through passengers. Indeed, he considered that all the omnibuses
would cease. The passengers even now went nut of their way,
and, therefore, it was evident that when they could save three
miles they would prefer the railway. Cheshunt would be just the
same distance, and of Gout se the time consumed would be reduced
by the superiority of the speed. The omnibus fare is now Is. but
he could not say exactly what the railroad fare would be.
He supposed at Is. 3d., the distance being ten
tulles, or perhaps eleven. For the latter distance the
tare sill be Is. 4 d, but the time now occupied was three.
quarters of an hour, while by rail it would only be filteen minutes.
Assuming the charge to be the same as by the Eastern Counties, '
there would still be a saving of four miles. He had formed his
calculation on the assumption that the saving would be three miles
on the nearest side of Cheshunt. He had taken all the omoibuses
from Eidie!d, which was half a mile from the railroad, and further
off than Cheshunt. He was not prepared to say that either Bishops-
gate street or the Exchange were neater to Farringdon.street than
to the Shoreditch station. In fact, the reverse was the case.
Southgate was a considerable distance from the railway, but he
thought not so much as four miles. The present charge VMS fid.
by omnibus, but when the railway was made, the passengers would
have to pay the two fares instead of one. From Enfield they
claimed 7.0001. a year, conceiving that all the passengers who went
along the track of the omnibus would go by the railway. From
Stamford Bill they claimed 4,4.2001. a year.
To the CHAIRMAN. the witness replied that the instance front
the point of separation was about five miles.
To Mr. Sergeant WRANGIIASI, Mr. Law Stated that the number