The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-14 00:00:00

reference to its 'pre-with manaeement. Though then
vriNu,
Nia& chhiilsop of Cs'anterlitirTin rAt be a. ve . good -13°`
tfibologirme .soil even- a good naturalist, he t
_4 -•-- • --tire
After a few remarks from Lcrd STANLEY and Dr.
lit The vote weZe4ri. agreed tea, _ _
vnteeeet , eehuvierg" Wet proposed for the ex-
.
• -individuals sip- penses for the prieensfer juvenile offenders in the Isle of
tutiou, hlkeere : ought to be: certain
~ Wiqht,
pointed, who- would
be left Sir J. GRAHAM stated (in reply to a question from
be resPonsilife to the Govern-
ment, and that the management should , not e_
Mr. Hume) that some of the juvenile offenders had
New entirely in the bands of private trustees. The Hon. •
t f the baen sent out at the expense of the State to
Member then read extracts from the R
Zen-
Select Cominittee of the House, land, and the worse-conducted to Van Diemen's Land.
it An increase of expenditure had thus been incurred. The
we:e appointed. It was a close corporat e
stating hoseep' Ithr:dt9ruwastses
i"self-elected cor e• juvenile females, however, were not sent out of this
likely to act differently from all other , P(
of
with the rights country.
ratians? He had no wish to interfere
hepublic had Mr. V. SMITH doubted the of sending juvenile
those who founded the Museum, yet, as t .
offenders to a colony like New Zealand, where they
in a great measure become the ruling body, it ought to
exposed to a competition with parties whose
would
' tment of trustees by the be
be popularised by the appointment
Secretary of State. The library, too,
might
be thrown characters had never been tainted. He thought., WO, that
more open ; if they excluded the public
from suchi places,
the pub-
the course adopted by the Government was litely :t.o
the most erroneous notions were formed. Even
hold out a premium to crime, and might he considered
as a hardship by honest persons who had no means of
see the outside of the books, it might
lie could only emigrating from this country.
commence a course of training, by which a taste for.
Lord STANLEY said that the object of the Govern-
Sirreaaling might be infused.
ment was to send those offenders from the scene of their
ROBERT • PEEL referred to the trustees who delinquencies,
and to prevent ;that containinas
former
were. last elected, Mr. Grantley and Mr. Hallam, ie,
'non to which they might otherwise tse exposed.
show that men of eminent literary character were not
,elieved that the course adopted would, in it* Piii4,
overlooked in the present arrangement. He assured the lie .. '
siv.e the mother country itself than if 4e
to
House that there was no ground for supposing that the be less o.e
trustees neglected their duty 3 on the contrary,. there parties werc left
at home.
-
was no institution in the kingdom which was more care- After some eue32, eves then pred
. therconvereation the vote was agreed to.
isgge
fully managed, or in which the officers better discharged A vote of 8,3201. o
's
their duties. for the expense
of the works, and repairs . f the British Ambassador ' s
house in Paris.
Mr. G. KNIGHT .said that many improvements had ,
HUMIe thought the sum a verY large one.
been made, which proved that the trustees were actuated Mr-
The vote was then agreed to.
. by a liberal spirit. The public had confidence in the . A .
of 62 300/. wa .proposed for defraying the
trustees. He (Mr. Knight) would be the last man to sum
and v
18with the two Houses of
salaries expenses connected
opoose change because it was change, but he did not
• • • Parliament.
think the proposed change would be a good one.
In reply to an observation from Dr.I3OWRING, Mr. HUME proposed that 21,0001. for the House of
•
Sir G. CLERK stated that the trustees always took Lords should be taken off, until they knew what were
a quarter's allowance of the grant beforehand. the items.
After a slight conversation the vote was agreed to. Strangers were ordered to wkhdraw and the Com-
Sir G. CLERK moved that a sum of not less than mittee divided, when there appeared-
-106,0851. should be granted, till the 31st of March 1843, For the originallmotion 9O
for the expense of work upon public buildings, furniture, For the amendment 23
watching, lighting, taxes, &c. Majority against the amendment —67
•
Mr. HAWES protested against the principle that
Mr. HUME made some remarks deprecatory of the
systeni of letting out part of Hampton Palace to branchesmight be the expenses of the House of Lords
whatever .
they had no right to know how they wereincurred.
of the nobility free of rent, by which means the people_
The CHAN L
'LLOR of the EXCHEQUER said for-
ofwere prevented access to some of the most elegant parts
the House' of Lords to ad-
instances, the practice wasfor - the Palace. The Hon. Gentleman, amongst other
those expenses, in-
mostdress the House fora grant to meet
inserted
in
~
• inetances, stated that certain apartments, including a
stead of which they were now
beautiful chapel, were occupied by Admiral Whit-
Mr. HUTT said there was a Clerk of Parliament who
shed, who refused to allow any one to see it. Another
. lady, who occupied thirteen rooms, used one very ancient received 4,000/. a year, and never attended.
and elegant little room as a lumber-room, and that she Sir R. PEEL said it might excite jealousy if they en-
would not give up for the benefit of the public. He did' tered into this case, which was the testy case, he believed,
think, since thines had come to this pass, that they in which the House of Lords had any control over public
. .
should pause before they granted this money. money.
Lord LINCOLN was happy to inform the Hon-
The. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
nourable Gentleman that Admiral Whitshead had
hoped they would not involve themselves in a contro-
given up the chapel for the benefit of the public, versy with the House of Lords.
Mr. HUME said he would move that the vote should
in consequence of a representation that such was
the general desire. No doubt other parts, which be postponed until they ascertained the amount of the
were particularly desired, would be given up. It was fees. He would not surrender the rights of the Commons.
absolutely necessary to reserve a few rooms in the Palace The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
for store-rooms, a.s , the public had access to almost it was not giving up their rights. It was a privi-
every room. lege which the other House had enjoyed from time
Mr. WILLIAMS should like to have the items given immemorial.
in detail, and he would move for returns of them. Mr. HUME then moved that the vote be reduced by
• With regard to those Palaces he believed that large 12,0001.
sums were spent tnr the purchase of houses round
The gallery was cleared for a division. but the amend-
Buckingham Palace ; and he would like to know whether meat having been withdrawn nu division took place, and
they were not still purchasing houses around the Pia the vote was agreed to.
laces. Here were seven Palaces for her Majesty. He The following votes were then proposed and agreed to ;
did not think so many Palaces were necessary for the 53,8001. for paying the salaries and expenses connected
Cott/fort of her Majesty, or for the dignity of the Throne. with the department of the Treasury.
He believed there were some of them which were never 15,400/. for paying the salaries and other expenses
seen by her Majesty. Why should not Kew Palace be connected with the office of her Majesty's Secretary of
fitted up for the Duchess of Kent ? He did not see State for the Home Department.
why it should be kept for the King of Hanover. who aas The next vote proposed was 78,000/. to pay the salaries
a foreign Prince ; or why 8001 should be paid for the and expenses of the Department of her Majesty's Secre-
Princess Sophia while she could have one of them. If tary of State for Foreign Affairs, which *as agreed to.
hedid not receive en account of the expenses of each A vote of 15,523/ was agreed to for the salaries and.
Palace he- should oppose the vote. expenses in the Department of the Secretary for the
Mr. EWART did not think it right that the public Colonies.
should be excluded from Richmond and Kew Park. A vote of 32,195/. was then proposed for the salaries
Some persons were. . . and expenses of the Privy Council and Board of Trade
Mr. PROTIIEROE hoped that Bnekingham Palace I Department.
would be completely fitted up for the Sovereign, and that Mr. HAWES said he did not think the two offices of
a chapel would be attached to it. It was necessary for reesident of the Board of Trade and Master of the Mint
her Majesty now to go publicly to St. James's Palace to shoold be combined in one person.
chapel, and it was on those occasions that the late The vote was then agreed to.
attempt on her Majesty's life had been made. A vote of 2,000/. was agreed to to defray the salary of
Mr. HAWES regretted that the Hon. Member who the Lord Privy Seal.
had just sat down made any allusion to the attempt upon 35,266/. was voted to defray the charges of the office
her Majesty's person.—a(Hear, hear.) He hoped that of Paymaster-General.
her Majesty would be always seen amongst her subjects. 18,103/. was voted to defray the salary of the Comp-
-(Hear, hear.) With regard to what had fallen from 1 troller and Officers of the Court of Exchequer.
the Hon. Member for Dumfries, he perfectly agreed I 2,006/. was voted to defray the salaries of certain Pro-
with him, that the Parks ought to be opened to,persons I
i fessors of Oxford and Cambridge.
wishing to drive in them. TI . public derived great 1 A vote of 13,368/. was agreed to, to defray the charges
advantage from the opening of Bushy Park, and he did of the Commissioners and other Officers of the Insolvent
not see why Kew should not be opened also. If it were Debtors' Court.
kept for the King of Hanover, he thought it was an 6,2821. was voted to defray the expenses of Parkhurst
abuse of the public money.—(Hear, hear.) Prison in the Isle of Wight.
The Earl of LINCOLN said that more than half of After a short discussion, 6,300/. was voted to defray
time expenses of which the Hon. Member for Coventry ' the expenses of model prisons.
complained were incurred for the public and not for the The next vpte was for 2,257/. to defray the salaries
Sovereign. With regard to the allowance of 800/. a- and other expenses of the State Paper °thee. After a
year to the Princess Sophia, it was most economical, for short conversation the vote was agreed to.
the Palace to which the Hon. Member alluded could not The vote of 3,400 L for the expenses of the Ecclesias-
be fitted up for less than 10,000/. or 12,000/. With tical Commission was then agreed to.
regard to what had fallen from the Hon. Member for On the motion that 59,800/. be granted to defray the
Halifax as to the building of a chapel for her Majesty expenses of the Commissioners and Assistant Commis-
attached to Buckingham Palace, he did not think he sioners of Poor-laws,
was taking too great a liberty with the name of the , Mr. FERRAND expressed a hope that the Govern-
Sovereign in-saying that no sentiment of fearwould have ment would consent to postpone the vote, until an inquiry
any-effi?et in preventing her Majesty from attendance at was instituted to ascertain the value of the services of
diviner worship, or . taking her usual drive in the parks. the Assistant Commissioners, who, as far as his expe-
He might mention an instance of the anxiety which her rience went, did nothing but go round to the unions at
Majesty and Prince Albert entertained to save the pub- certain times, and shake hands with the guardians, whose
lie money. „Last year the House would recollect a con- proceedings they did nor always report afterwards very
siderable suns had been voted for the purpose of building faithfully.
two beautiful conservatories on the groUnds of Bucking- After a short conversation the vote was agreed to.
ham Palece. Iler Majesty, however, instead d'enaploy- The next vote of 15,000/. for expenses incidental upon
ing that money in beautifying her garden, caused a. the Commission for suppressing the African slave trade,
chapel to he erected' with it contiguous to the Palace,— was agreed to without opposition.
(Hear.) • With regard to Richmond and Kew Parks, he The next rote proposed was that of 112,470/. for
certainly, must say, that' it was not nearly so difficult to Consuls, Vice-Consuls, and contingent expenses of su-
obtain entrance to theM, as people not living in the perintending the trade with China.
neighbourhood- were apt to ,imagine. He had himself, Mr. DISRAELI said that he really believed Consuls
though as little known to any of the gate-keepers as any had.nothing to do, and he did think they ought to pause
one else could be, freqaently ridden in the Park. Kew before they granted such a large sum.
Gardens were the only ones which remained to her Ma- Sir C. NAPIER would not object to the vote, but he
jester and her family; they had been formerly kept as a thought sufficient attention was not paid to the appoint-
kind of nursery, and he would submit that it would be as meat of foreign Consuls.
well to preserve the limitation which at present existed , Lord PALMERSTON said that the necessity for the
of ,keeping them private four days a week. It must be appointment of Consuls in all foreign ports, where there
recollected. that the Botanical Gardens at Kew were al- was a British trade, was indisputable ; and he had been
ways -open. - • repeatedly applied to for the appointment of Consuls in
tire tPRO'THEROE explained. places in which there were none, and in which British
Mri'lreWAßT begged to ask if means were being taken subjects trading there had suffered incanvenience, insult,
to cart' out a motion which was made some time ago for and loss, in consequence of there being no such repre-
extending Reeent's Park to Primrose Hill. sentative of this country. The duty of the Consul was
Lord LINCOLN stated that Regent's Park had lately to protect British traders, and he believed, that for the
undergone considerable improvements. most part, that duty was most efficiently performed.
Mr. HUM E disapproved of certain ground in Kensing- Mr. HUME inquired why there had
been lately a
ton Gardens (as we understood) having been let and Consul appointed for Syria, where there had been none
subsequently. built upon. before the last two years, in which the trade of the
Lord LINCOLN stated that it had been done in accord- country had been destroyed ?
ance with an Act passed in the last Parliament. Lord PALMERSTON replied that the unsettled state
3Ire'PROTHEROE agreed with Mr. Hume that the of Syria, to which his Hon. Friend alluded, was really
ground should not have been built. upon.—The vote was 'that which rendered the presence of a Consul in that
then agree.d to. country necessary.
The next vote proposed was that of 4,753/ for ins- Sir C. NAPIER believed that the appointment of a
proveMents on the Holyhead and Liverpool road, the Consul in Syria was one of the best the Noble Lord
Holvherel Harbour, and the Shrewatury and Holyhead (Palmerston) had ever made ; and he had to say further,
road, which was agreed to. that he had thought it so necessary, that he had taken
A vote of 33,748/. was then proposed for the new great pains to persuade the Noble Lord to make it.
buildings at the British Museum, including the improve- After some further conversation, the vote was agreed to.
ments on the south front. The sum of 8,800/ was then voted to defray the sale-
After a few words from. Mr. HUME the vote was ries and expenses of the inspectors and superintendents
agreed to. of factories.
A vote of 5,395/. was proposed for providing temporary The sum of 5,800/. was voted to defray the salaries
accommodation un:il the new Houses of Parliament and expenses of the inspectors of prisons.
should be completed.—Agreed to. The sum of 26,9951. was voted to defray the expen-
The next vote proposed was that of 105,0001. for the i diture of the Mint.
expenses in building the new Houses of Parliament till The sum of 3,1111. was voted to defray the expenses
the Ist of April, 1843. of the Children's Employment Commission.
Mr. HUME wished to know when the buildings wouhl The House then resumed, the Chairman reported pro-
be completed at the rate they were going on at pre- gress, and obtained leave to sit again on Friday.
sent; twenty years, or when? HER MAJESTY'S PROTECTION BILL.
Lord LINCOLN said he could not precisely say when On the motion of Sir R. PEEL, the Protection of her
the buildings would be entirely completed. He thought Majesty's Person Bill was read a third time and passed.
it was probable they might sit in the new Houses in the 'CORONERS' COMPENSATION (WARWICK).
session of 1845, certainly in 1846; the Victoria tower, • Sir C. DOUGLAS obtained leave to bring in a Bill to
however, and ether parts, might not be finished for a compensate the Coroners and Clerks of the Peace for
considerable time. the counties of Warwick and Lancaster, and the Clerk
Mr. HUME said the expenditure was most extrava- to the Justices of the Peace for the county of Warwick,
gent and unnecessary; they might make a fine building, acting for the Birmingham division of the Hundred of
but it Would never do for a House of Parliament.—The Ilemlingford; for their loss by the incorporation of the
vote was then agreed to. boroughs of Birmingham, Manchester, and Bolton.
On the vote for 2,018/. for the Museum of Economic The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the
Geology; House adjourned at a Quarter to Two o'Clock.
Mr. HUME approve.l of the object of the teuilding,
but
deprecated maintaining a laboratory for ;las:lying
ores for privet The
Private patties.building was totally -unfit
for its purpose. He objected to the vote.
The vote was egreeno.
On 19,026/.
being proposed for finishing the buildiaaos
for the model Peron, •
Mr. WILLIAMS said the present vote was for maim
taming 230 convicts at 13s. a week each, in a
country
where the wages of hundreds of industrious men
were 3s. ,a . week. He presumed that the model
prison was to be on the plan of the Sin Sin
of
prison 'in the State New York h
1 but there -Si
convicts, -by their labour, paid the full cost of their
maintenance. The whole of that immense prison was
built by the prisoners themselves. In this country no
means were even taken to effect this object. Besides,
why not transport them ? The cessation of the system of
transportation had much injured the penal colonies, and
. they would now be glad to give 5/. for every convict
they could send them. The yr would willingly hire the
labour of the convicts, labour being so valuable.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said when they came into
office they found the building so far completed
that they could not abandon it, even if they had
doubted its policy. But so far from disapproving
of it, they thought it an experiment well worth trying.
The experiment, therefore, should undergo a fair trial,
and he hoetal the House and the Government would ap-
prove of if. Ai to the transportation, he did not approve
of
the coatinuanee of it as a secondary
punishment.
S uhieet to propee regulations the abases of the system
. might
.be rensoved,soas to render it an effieient secondary
punishment. He intended that this prison
should come
in aid of the system of transportation, by instructing
.
prisoners or_skilled labourers
previous to sending them
to a penal colony.
' Dr. BOWRING asked whether, in the architectural
arrangements in
arrangements of the prison,
,there were any arrangements
for central inspection ?
Sir J. GRAHAM had not been able to visit theo-
son, but he believed the best mode f. pri-
son, construction was
adopted.
Mr. lIII'ME approved of a better system of prison
discipline being adopted, if transportation were to be dis-
eontinued.

A BILL FOR PROVIDING FOR
THE FURTHER SECURITY AND PROTEC-
TION OF HER MAJESTY'S PERSON.

1 This Bill, :which was introduced by Sir Robert Peel
on Tuesday and read a first and second time, consists of
'two clauses. The first provides that persons charged
with an attempt against the person of the Queen, shall
be tried in the same manner, and according to the same
c curse of trial, in every respect, as if such persons stood
chArged with murder, and none of the provisions con-
tain.ed in the previous Acts against high treason shall
extend to the indictment for attempting her Majesty's life.
The second clause makes ample provision for the pu-
nishment of those who may be inclined to follow the
example of the wretched being committed to take his
trial for the last attack on her Majesty, and is as follows:
" Be it enacted, that from and after the passing of this
Act, if any person shall wilfully discharge or attempt
to discharge, or point, aim or present at or near to the
person of the Queen, any gun, pistol, or any other des-
,nption of fire-arms, or of other arms whatsover,
although the same shall not contain any explosive or
destructive material, or shall discharge or cause to be
discharged any explosive substance or material near to
the person of the'Queen ; or if any person shall wilfully
strike or strike at, or attempt to strike or to strike at,
the person of the Queen with any offensive weapon, or
1 in any other manner whatsover ; or if any person shall
' wilfully throw or attempt to throw any substance, mat-
ter or thing whatsoever at or upon the person
of the
Queen. with intent in any of the cases aforesaid to injure
the person of the Queen, or with intent in any of the
cases aforesaid to break the public peace, or with intent
in any of the cases aforesaid to create alarm to her
Majesty ; every such person so offending shall be guilty
of a high misdemeanor, and, being convicted thereof in
due course of law, shall be liable, at the discretion of
the Court before which the said person shall be so con-
victed, to be transported beyond the seas for any period
not exceeding seven years, or to be imprisoned with or
without hard labour for any period not exceeding three
years, and during the period of such imprisonment to be
publicly or privately whipped, as often and in such man.
tier and form as the said Court shall order and direct,
not exceeding thrice."