The Sun.
London, England, 1845-08-02 00:00:00

committal of the'Bill.
On the question being put from the Chair,
Lord COURTENAY said that as Chairman of the Com-
mittee to which the grouped Bills had been intrusted, he might
perhaps be excused if he stated to the House the course of pro-
ceeding, and as that, and not the peculiar merits of the pro-
jects, had been made the chief subject of comment by the
Hon. Member for Sheffield, he would confine himself as strictly

as possible to meeting that particular question. The report
which had been that morning laid before the Members of the
House mentioned the number of Bills which had been referred
to the consideration of the Committee. The .Hon. Member
opposite complained of the apologetic tone in which the report
was introduced ; if apology were discernible, he could assure the
. .

Hon. Member that .it was not from any misgiving of error or
irregularity, but that impressed with the stupendous charge with
which they were entrusted they wished to evince a sense of that
importance, and also show their respect to the House. They,
therefore, were not content with giving a mere dry and general de-
tail, but explained the circumstances which led to their decision.
He must be permitted now to say that, although upon the merits
of the two Bills the Committee were not unanimous, but

divided in their decision, as respected the course of proceeding
throughout their sitting they were invariably unanimous.
Whether, therefore, right or wrong, regular or irregular, these
proceedings were adopted in accordance with the unanimonsdeci-
PlOll of the Committee.—( Hear.) The Hon. Member for Sheffield
had stated that an arrangement had been made, and a resolu-
tion adopted, wherein they stated their intention of including
in one Bill the Sheffield and Lincoln, and Tottenham and Far-
ringdon-street Extension. That was perfectly true ; and it
was on this ground that the Bills thus included were considered
as more or less in competition with each other, either
in a direct line north and south, or, laterally,
east and west ; and subsequent to this arrangement, on a spe-
cial application, the Hertford and Biggleswade was added to
the list by sub-grouping. That preliminary matter being
settled, they proceeded to classify the schemes in the order in
which they should be heard. The London and York was that
taken first, because it was the first in point of fact.
Throughout the entire case counsel were let in to cross-examine
every witness, and it would be found, on reference to the
repent, that one, two, three, four, and five counsel exercised
this right. If any Rlernber had been present in the Com-
mittee-room, during the seventy or eighty days that the
Committee sat upon the line, he would have seen the course
adopted, and been enabled to bear witness to the accuracy
of his statements. The Hon. Member had also referred
to the resolution adopted by the Committee on the
7th of June, to the effect that the Committee cannot, with a
view of instituting a comparison between the population in the
district within ten miles on either side of the London and York line,
and within a similar distance of the Cambridge and Lincoln line,
admit the population on lines which are not before Parliament.
The Hon. Member stated that that resolution applied to lines
competing with the London and York, whereas the fact was
that the Cambridge and Lincoln line, being the principal com-
peting scheme, the promoters were informed that if they des
sired to show that a further portion of the country beyond the
ten miles could be secured by the line as then before the Com-
mittee, it might be done on the same principle as that adopted
by the Committee in the previous part of the investigation.
Several Members of the Committee had expressed a desire of
coming to a decision on such parts of the case as would not
inflict injury on other parties who had claims to be heard before
the Committee; and, as far as the leading lines were con-
cerned, it was considered necessary and desirable to come to
some resolutions on such parts of the scheme as would involve
this arrangement of the business. In pursuance with this
application was made before the case of the London
and York was gone into, and when an objection was
taken to it in respect to certain errors which were alleged
to exist in the plans of that scheme, that the whole case be-
tween the two great lines should be taken, and that the counsel
on behalf of the Direct Northern should state the places at
which they proposed to prove the effect of the errors specified
to be so great as to render the work impracticable—it was
at the same time requested by counsel on the side of the London
and York, that the Committee should come to a decision on the
merits of that scheme, after the termination of the Tottenham
and Farringdon-street case. Himself and his Hun. Colleagues
on the Committee concurred in saying, in answer to
the application, that on the Monday following they would give
their decision separately on those applications. On the
Monday they met, and came to the conclusion that when the
cases of the Direct Northern and Farringdon-street Extension
lines were closed, they would proceed to consider the merits
of the two competing lines before them, for effecting a second
trunk railway communication between London and York, viz.:
that of the London and York Company, and that which con-
sisted of the Cambridge and Lincoln, the Direct Northern,
and the Farringdon Extension lines, in conjunction with the
Eastern Counties Railway, already executed as far as Cam-
bridge. All were agreed on this resolution. They were guided
by the arguments of the report of the Board of Trade in ex-
cluding that part of the Midland Counties Railway which was
considered to he in competition with the London and York line.
They considered that it would be exceedingly objec-
tionable to extend further the Midland Counties scheme,
considering the circumstances under which that Company
bad acted. They took that step with due deliberation,
subject to the responsibility of that House. They felt justified
that the course they took was in conformity with the interests of
all parties concerned. An application was made to them on July
16, on behalf of the Eastern Counties and the York and North
Midland Companies, to be allowed to present rebutting evidence
against the London and York line. The application was
made by Mr. Talbot, and an answer was returned to the
effect that the Committee, in the exercise of its discretion,
considered the London and York, the Cambridge and Lincoln,
the Direct Northern, and the Tottenham and Farringdon
Extension, with the existing Cambridge Railway, were the
only two schemes that competed inter se as it respected a direct
trunk communication from London to York ; and that the
Cambridge and Huntingdon line should be taken next in
order. These resolutions were come to, after a due
examination of evidence and a careful consideration of
the question. The opposition of Lord Lindsey had
been referred to, and on that subject he would say a few words.
Counsel on behalf of that Noble Lord had been heard, witnesses
called and subjected to examination and cross-examination ;
many questions were asked by the members of the Committee,
and a map of the place was used to guide them in their inquiry.
In fact, it was not without much care and consideration that
the Committee decided, and then not before the case on behalf
of the Noble Lord had been fully heard. The principle on which
the Committee acted was, at every stage of their business,
to select such Bills as might be considered competing
schemes, and to view them in connexion with each other.
The House had entrusted the Committee with
a certain discretionary power, and it had been
honestly and he trusted impartially exercised.
That was the resolution they had acted upon. He was not
conscious of having omitted any part of his duty as a Member
of the Committee, but thought all of them bad acted in ac-
cordance with precedent, and in conformity with the immense
interest involved in the case. He would further say, that
they had endeavoured to do the best they could, and hoped
the House would consider that they had not acted in any way
improperly,
Mr. BARING WALL said he felt very strongly that the
attention of the House should be drawn to the manner in which
the London and York Committee had acted—if that Committee
had adopted the same principles as had been acted upon in others,
a great number of the complaints of his Hon. Friend the Mem-
ber for Sheffield would have been unnecessary. He would not
now enter into the merits of the case, but thought the
Committee had taken every pains to arrive at a proper result.
(The Hon. Member spoke in so low a tone of voice, that one
whole sentence of what he uttered was not audible in the
gallery.) He could not think, looking at the question of com-
munication from London to York, that it could be said the
Committee had doge wrong in coming to the decision it had
done. The Committee bad given indications of their wish to
hear all the opposing lines, and they would have heard them if
they could have come to a decision before the Parliament was
prorogued. On the whole, he thought the Committee had
exercised a sound judgment, and he trusted, therefore, that the
House would not accede to the motion of the Hon. Member for
Sheffield.
Mr. DARBY said that if the Committee had exercised an
improper discretion he fur one trusted the House would recom-
mit the Bill. He trusted, however, the House would look at
what the system of grouping was, and that they would look at
the effect upon it, if it was to be said that the Committee did
not exercise a sound discretion. The Hon. Member for Shef-
field had totally mistaken the principle upon which the
groups were classed. If the Committee were not to exercise a
discretion each railway would have to he sent to a separate
Committee. He was prepared to maintain that the Committee
had taken not only the right course but the only oue it could
take. It was upon a general agreement of counsel that the
Committee had pursued the course which was so much com-
plained of by the Hon. Member for Sheffield. The Hon.
Gentleman had laid that the decision of the Cununittoe was