The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-23 00:00:00

- opinions of Mr. Pitt, and certainly they were.
, applicable to the objections of the Hon. and Gallant
Officer. There was another observation made by the Hon and
Gallant Officer (Sir C. Napier) to which he (Sir I. Graham)
could not fail to refer ; he meant the lion. and Gallant Offi-
cer's observation with respect to the danger of the British ships
in the Mediterranean, as n matter of prudence and precaution.
He (Sir J. Graham) was sorry that an officer of such distinc-
tion as the Hon. and Gallant Officer undoubtedly was—
( Hear, hear)—ahould have proclaimed to the world that, if the
Mediterranean was attacked, our ships would have a good chance
of being defeated. The Hon. and Gallant Offieer did not. do
justice to himself in saying so, for, he was sure, the Hon. and
Gallant Officer. and his brother officers, would have been fully
able, under any circumstances, to sustain the honour of the
British flag.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Gallant Officer ad-
verted to various other points which it would be necessary for
him (Sir J. Graham) to follow ; the Hon. and Gallant
Officer recommended a new scheme of purchase in the navy.
It was impossible that his (Sir J. Graham's) attention was not
called to the subject before ; it had been already discussed and
considered ; much might be said in favour of that scheme, but,
upon the whole, he (Sir J. Graham) was of opinion, that it
would only introduce an entirely new system which would be at
variance with the wishes and interests of the British Navy.
It was true that the effect of political interest with respect to
prom tion could not be superseded ; but if the interest of
wealth were added, it would he impossible for an unobtru•ive
man to obtain promotion. But the Hon. and Gallant Officer
had suggested another mode of dealing with the crowded list of
captains, which was nut open to the same objection. The Hon.
and Gallant Officer proposed that there should be a list of aged
officers who should, e pecially in time of peace, retire from
active service. He could well conci ive that there was advan-
tage in that proposition ; and he had not understood his Right
Hon. Friend, the First Lord of the Treasury, on any occasion
to state that such a plan was not worthy of the most serious at-
tention of the Government.. But he thought that those were
questions which might safely be left in the hands of the Execu-
tive Government. He conceived that to press resolutions of the
House of Commons on a subject of that nature was a course
which, though it might relieve the Executive Government of
great responsibility, would not conduce to the real interest of
the service.—( Hear, hear.) Then the Hon. and Gallant Of-
ficer had alluded to the various measures which had from time
to time been suggested with respect to the manning of the
navy ; and ho had thrown out a suggestion that it might be
expedient, when the Poor.law Bill was under the
consideration of the House to introduce some clauses for mak-
ing the overseers of the poor to bind pauper boys compulsory as
apprentices into the service of her Majesty. Now, he must
say, that he did not think such a proposal would at all increase
the popularity of the Poor-law—( Hear, hear).—nor did he
think there was the slightest necessity to resort to such a step.
The national taste of British peasants living on the British
coast would obviate the necessity for resorting to compulsory
apprenticeship ; they would, when necessary, volunteer their
services.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Gallant officer sat
down with referring to the saying of Mr. Tierney, " Give us a
well-manned Navy and a full Exchequer, and we may bid de-
fiance to the world—a sentiment in which he (Sir J. Graham)
most cordially concurred." One oortion of it was already
realised; the Hoe. and Gallant Officer admitted that the navy
was well and fully manned. It would be for his Won. Friends
to persevere in their endeovours, and the last. proposition also
would be realised ; whatever deficiency there might be, the
Exchequer would be replenished. —( Hear, hear.) They ap-
pealed, with cenfidence, to the wisdom of Parliament and to the
good sense and patriotic feeling of the nation ; they had not the
slightest doubt that the Exchequer would be replenished,
and when that happy day an iced they would bid defiance to
the world. With respect to the resolutions of the Hon. and
Gallant Officer, there were some of them to which he (Sir J.
Graham) had no objection to give an assent, stating his con-
viction, however, that the matters to which they referred
would be better left to the Executive Government. Enter-
taining the highest respect for the Gallant Commodore, and
for the intentions with which he had brought the present sub-
ject under the consideration of the House, he should feel him-
self, notwithstanding, bound to move the previous question.
The SPEAKER having put the question,
Captain BERKELEY did not wish to trespass on the
House, but as this was a subject which did not involve
any party question, and was one dear to naval men and to
the country generally, he hoped the House would bear with
him for a short time. He regretted that the Right Hon.
Baronet had adverted to a topic upon which he ( Captain
Berkeley) had differed with these who had been acting with him
in the Admiralty—he meant the manning of the navy. The
navy was nosy properly and thorougly manned, and he was in
hopes that the subject would be left at rest. But in justice to I
the Gallant Officer who had brought forward the present sub-
ject. he would mention one fact, and one only, because he did
not wish to meddle with the subject at all—with respect to the
circumstance of our ships being placed in jeopardy from being
inefficiently manned. Four sail of the line had been placed
under the command of his Gallant Friend behind him ( Sir C.
Napier), in the Mediterranean, in 1840. They were short of
their complement of men, and within a day and a halt's sail of
them were stationed twenty Egyptian ships to relieve Bey- I
rout. Had the enemy bore down upon us, and his Gallant
Friend were inclined to avoid the action ( which was not likely ),
he would not have had it in his power to do so, neither would
he be able, manned as his ships were, to oppose the enemy.
He only mentioned this as a proof that ships sailing with peace I
complements might sometimes be at fault; he hoped, however,
that they would never run that risk again. With regard to
what the Right Hon. Baronet had said relative to a naval man
being at the head of the Admiralty, he (Captain Berkeley )
must say, that. he could not understand why professional know-
ledge was to be a disqualification for a First Lord of the Ad-
miralty--at least not exactly a disqualification—but the Right
Hon. Baronet said it was much better that a civilian should be
at. the head of the Board than a naval man. He remembered
that when his Gallant Friend (Sir C. Napier) brought
forward a motion relative to bishops going to the
colonies, he was told that he had much better
leave the matter to those who had the manage-
ment of ecclesiastical affairs.—(Hear.) On the same ground
he conceived that a naval man knew much more of naval mat-
ters than a civilian could possibly do.— ( Hear.) Besides this,
he could assure the House that when a civilian visited the
dockyard he had not that weight with the naval officers
which a naval man would have.—( llear.) It fell to his lot
once, some time ago, to be appointed to a squadron, ap-
pointed for a particular service. The First Lord of the Ad-
miralty
was expected down. Every officer and man strained
his utmost exertions that their several vessels should be
turned out in a way fit for a Board of Admiralty to inspect.
The First Lord came—he was a civilian—every officer was
anxious that his own ship should be examined ; and every
midshipman and lieutenant was anxious to sco the First Lord
and that he should inspect every vessel. The Noble Lord
visited only one ship, and went away no doubt very
much tired with the labour of the investigation.—(Hear. )
He was certain that if the Gallant Admiral opposite (Sir G.
Cockburn) had been at the time First Lord of the Admiralty,
he world have made it a point to visit and inspect the different
ships, and thus gratify the officers and men. Add to that,
that it was upon those minute details, with which no civilian
could be thoroughly acquainted, that the efficiency of the navy
mainly depended, there was a prevailing feeling throughout
the navy—he feared not contradiction when he said so—that
they were neglected, and that if they had a naval officer at the
head of the service, they would not at least be so frequently
neglected. As he had said upon a former occasion, it was im-
possible that a civilian could enter into the feelings of officers
like a brother-officer. With regard to the number of promo-
tions under Lord Minto, and the nature of those promotions, he
begged leave to relate a circumstance which had come un-
der his immediate knowledge. At the Coronation he had
recommended a young man of the best character to Lord Minto
for promotion, confessing to him, however, that he was politi-
cally connected with the borough which he had the honour to
represent ; the reply of Lord Minto was, that he would promote
a person recommended by him, but it was on condition that he
should be entirely unconnected with politics. He did recom-
mend a person of that description, who received an advance-
ment in the service, while the party whom he had originally
recommended still remained unpromoted. He mentioned that
for the purpose of showing that Lord Minto had not been influ-
enced in the distribution of his patronage by political motives.
He had beard nothing which could induce him to think that
the navy could not be governed by a naval man as well
as the army was governed by a soldier. Great incon-
venience resul.ed from the adoptien of a different sys-
tem. In the case, for instance, of an equal division
of votes among the Lords of the Admiralty, the subject would
be decided by a man who might, however, know nothing of the
matter. He also felt that there was so little patronage to be
distributed in the navy, that it would be considered the greatest
boon by the officers that one of their own beefy should be ap-
pointed to preside over the service. He could state that it was
his opinion, that there was mi re difficulty in finding officers to
fill situations, than in finttrig situations to give to ufficers.—
(Laughter. ) There was no reward for all their toil and
trouble, and he trusted that a retiring list would be made for
them. He hoped that, with respect to the dockyards, all
good artificers, having served a certain time in the navy,
would have the first claim to situations in them.
—( Hear, bet e.) It would be encouraging persons to enter
the navy, and contribute to render it popular. He had one word
to say with respect to the ages of Admirals. Hon. Members
of that House, who were more than sixty years of age, were
exempted from serving on Election Committees, and yet they
sent men at sixty and seventy years of age to contend with the
elements and the enemies of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
Having heard nothing to show that naval officers were incapa-
citated from being placed at the Board of Admiralty, he should
vote for the resolution of the Hon. and Gallant Officer
behind him.
Lord INGESTRIE said that whatever opinion may be en-
tertained of the discretion of the Hun. and Gallant Corn-
modore in bringing forward his resolutions at that time, there ,
could be no doubt that the navy owed him a deep debt of
gratitude for the way he advocated its cause in that
House.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") It may not be
right in a legislative assembly to meddle in matters
more immediately belonging to the Executive, but at
the same time, if the navy did not take an opportunity of
making its sentiments known, it would be impossible for she
Executive to know the opinion of the navy on any subject.
Looking to the experience and knowledge posse-sed by pro-
fessional men, he thought much was to he said in favour of a
naval officer being placed at the head of the Board of Admi.
ralty.—(Cheers.) If the resolution of the Hon. and Gallant
Commodore was for a future construction of the Board, he
would give his vote for it. With respect to the other t eso-
lutions of the Hon. and Gallant Officer, he should have no
hesitation in supporting his proposition. In consequence of a
protracted war, the list was too full of aged officers for the exi-
gencies of the country. He should not enter into any
statement of the ages of those officers, but in case
of a war some moans must be devised for calling
younger officers into active service in every rank. He would
propose some plan of retirement, as only just to those elder
officers who had acted as examples to those who were coming
after them. There were many civil officers connected with the
navy that might be filled by naval officers as efficiently as by
civilians, by which a great saving to the country might be ef-
fected in the half-pay.
Captain PECHELL supported the resolutions, and, in proo
of the good that accrued from such discussions, he would refer
to the useful Naval Commissioners whose appointment
ensued, no doubt, from those discussions. He thought
it was paying a very poor compliment, indeed, to
the services of the late Lord High Admiral, to say that a naval
officer ought not to preside. With regard tai what had been
said relative to the responsibility of the Board of Admiralty, he
(Captain Pechell) would say that he thought the Board was a
very irresponsible and secondary one, and he thought a better
instance of its irresponsibility and secondary character could
not have been given than that which had been stated, that
when the First Lord was applied to some time ago to
protect the fishermen of the coast of Kent, lie would net do
so, on the ground that he could not undertake the responsibility.
He thought, however just the apprehensions of the Gallant
Commodore, that our fleet would not have been beaten if an i
action had taken place between us and the French in the Medi-
terranean in 1840 ; still the manning of the ships should be kept
up if it were only to avoid the great labour that must other-
wise fall on the men, especially in cases of sickness. With
respect to the pensions of midshipmen for wounds, it should be
observed that those pensions were discontinued immediately
they were promoted. With respect to the manning of ships, I
the Admiralty ought to be convinced of the necessity of pre-
serving to the service the seamen brought up to the practice !
of gunnery in the Excellent at Portsmouth, and ought
not to suffer the navy. to be deprived of their valuable '
services. He hoped the time was not far distant when the
pay of thck,e. men would be inereaeed, audto arrive at the rank of
a petty officer would be a matter of ambition. There wts no
danger be thought of the interest of the navy belug sacrificed

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