The Sun.
London, England, 1820-06-09 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MURSDAY, JUNE 8.

The Aunual Accounts of the Commissioners of
the Thames Navigation for last year were present-
ed at the liar by Mr. ALLNUTT, and ordered to lie
on the table.

The Marquess of BUTS presented a Petition
from certain Land Owners and others in the ciry
of Gloucester. complaining of agriculturtil
tress, and praying relief.
On the motion of the Marquess of LANSDOSVN,
a message way ordered to be sent to the Com.
mans, drat Edward Ellice, Esq. a Member at that
House, be permitted to attend their Lordships'
lect Committee on the Foreign Trade and
Commerce of the Country, for the purpose of be-
jog examined.

On the motion of the Earl of DARNLEY, the
[rouse spin ordered the production of those ac-
counts respecting übequantities of the expenditure
for Statiouery and certain other articles used in
souse of the public offices in Dublin, which were
ordered on the motion of his Lordship in the last
Se,sion.

The Bari of RoSEBERRY presented a Petition
(torn the county of Linlithgow, in Scotland, coin-
phtining of Agricultural distresses.

Lour CALTnoaria, atter a few prefatory re-
marks on the peculiar importance of the case, and
the distressed situatiun in which the inhabitants
of Birmingham were placed by the pressure of the
times, presented a Petition from the Chamber of
Commerce in that town, praying for the adop.
lion of some legislative measures towards their

These Petitions was ordered to lie on the table.

THE QUEEN.

. Lord KENYON rose, t and adverting to their
'Lordships' decision of last night to ballot for a
CoMmittee this day, observed, that when he con-
sidered what had since taken place elsewhere;
and confident reports that were abroad, he was
of opinion that while it was more than poisible
some satisfactory arrangement may take place, it
.would be thepreferable way to leave the proceed-
jag of the House to which he referred still open
for consideration. A hope seemed to be enter-
tained that something would take place which
would prevent the necessity of the pending mea-
sores going to their fall extent. The decision
of yesterday, avowedly
.went on the principle of
its being consistent with public kistiCe; and at the
same time indulgent towards the
That was made under the then circumstances of
the case. Circumstances however, he under-
stood, had since occurred, from which the pnfrlic
were led to hope that the measure may be sins-
perided, if its necessity may not altogether be
prevented. In particular, their Lordships were
aware aware 'that in another place a circumstance that
wore a favourable appearance had occurred; and
he could not think their Lordships were disposed
to show less indulgence than was extended to the
party elsewhere, tinder this iMpression, he
thought it would he the more proper and elegihle
way, instead of their Lordships.entering upon the
ballot this day, to postpone it for a little time, to
afford the better Opportunity for steps of a conci-
liatory nature taking' place in the interval. He
should therefore wish that the proceeding of bal-
loting for a Secret Committee be postponed till
Monday next.
The'Earl of Lii'earooL'observed, he7was not
aware that any circumstances had occurrul 9f 'a

nature which Should induce their Lord Ships. not
to proceed to the ballot pursuant to the drder
of. yesterday. The ballot would merely go to
forming a Committee, but he was not inclined to
object to 'postponing tie meeting of the Coriimit-
tee till Tuesday, it any thing should occur that
might render their proCeeding unnecessary. The
mouse would then consider of the preferable course
to pursue; but as things stood, he thought the
proper course would be to proceed-to the bal-
lot pursuant to, their Lordships' Order of yester-
day.
. ,
The Marquess of LANSDOWN thought it was
clear; froth what bad fallen from the Noble Lord,
there existed no necessity for immediately enter-
ing upon the inquiry. He thought,- lit his view
of rite quCstion, the course moved for by the
Noble BarOn was -a less inconsistent proceeding
than that suggested by the Noble Earl. With the
former he partook in the hope that seemed to be
entertained by many, and particularly from what
occurred in the other House of Parliament, that
some means would be found to exonerate both
Houses front the painful duty which otherwise
may tall upon them. The proceeding to which
he alluded showed that a necessity for an imme-
diate proceeding was not felt elsewhere. View-
ing the question as he did, he must preferably
concur in the Noble Lord's motion.

Lord KENYON, in explanation, observed, be
had great satisfaction in perceiving that tl►e Noble
Earl would not object to postpone the period of
entering upon the inquiry. It seemed to be a ge•
ueral wish that no proceeding should take place,
as long as the probability of a conciliatory ar-
rangement appeared. He thought the course he
proposed would be more consistent with the dig-
nity of the House, as well as more decidedly to
show its favourable disposition and desire to wait
as long as such a hope rationally prevailed, and
he would take the liberty of persevering in his
motion, to which he really saw no reasonable ob•

jectiou. •
Tlre Earl of LAUDERDALE was of opinion, that
the principal ground assigned by the Noble Lord,
namely what had occurred in another place, was
by no means an adequate reason for their Lord-
ships departing from their decision of yesterday.
He knew not what took place elsewhere, nor
could he think it becoming the dignity of the
House to act upon such a ground. Its own forms
suggested the mode of acting most consistently
with the credit and honour of the Hoise ; and he
never could think it a conclusive reason for their
acting as now proposed, because forsooth the
other House did so ; they should attend solely to
the credit and consistency of their own proceed.
ings ; so feeling, he could not concur in the pro-
position made by the Noble Lord opposite.
Lord HOLLAND argued, that there could be no
inconsistency in their Lordships adopting the
proposition of the Noble Baron. Notwithstand-
ing the vote of yesterday, it was perfectly in order
for Their Lordships so to do. The vote of the
Commons, to which they could regularly refer,
showed the light in which that House regarded
this important .question, and that its consideration
safely admitted of postponement. He was far
from thinking with his Noble Friend who spoke
last, as be never could consider obstinacy in a bad
case a commendable proceeding. He found by
what was said, that the sentiment of a large por-
tion of the House was, that the most manly,
open, and consistent way, would be to extricate
itself from the difficulties in the. way he had re-
commended yesterday. For that reason he would
prefer the mode of postponing the ballot itself, to
that of the period of its commencing the Inquiry,
so that they might be free to act as circumstances
may arise. After animadverting upon part of the
arguments used yesterday by Noble Lords on the
Ministerial side of the question, and contending
that their proposed course would be found the
most inconvenient and objectionable way of pro-
ceeding, as he thought was sufficiently,exemplified
by the argument now used for .their departure
from the vote of yesterday, on the ground chiefly
that the other House of Parliament
,had come to a
different conclusion. He expressed his opinion
that what %yes now proposed was more consistent,
and would better uphold the true dignity and
character of the House.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL, in explanation, con-
tended. that to act, on, the ground of proceeding
contemporaneously, (a principle which his Noble
Friend's motion went to favour) would go .to pre-
clude that House from acting upon its own view
of the question. He had never said that the con-
temporaneous proceedings of both Houses should
take.placei an the contrary,.bis idea was, that
both Houses should act. on their own views dis-
tinctly of the case. Neither was there any in-
consisteocy in appointing the Committee by ballot
that day, and postponing the commencement of
its inquiry until Tuesday, which would afford the
desired interval of delay, with a view to the pos-
sibility of some conciliatory arrangement taking
place. A longer delay he was inclined to object
to, on the.grotind he
-had yesterday stated, that if
,auy benefit could resultfrom the proceedings, it
most be from .their acting without any material
delay ; 811 d he.. still continued ,in the sentiment
that the HOnse would hest consult its own dignity
by proceeding without reference to what passed
elsewhere..

The E4rl of CARRMAKVON observed, it appeared
to hint clear_that the wished tor..delay was found-
ed upon the hope that during the intetvid some
circumstances would arise• that might render un-
necessary the proceeding of a Committee at all
In that view, he thought it would be the wiser
course not to appoint .the Committee, which
would be prefeiable to acting upon the. sugges-
tions of either of the two Noble Lotlls oppraite.
Another reason.for .postponement was that they
could not know the course the Counuous Might

. Lord Ertsitt4E expressed his opinion !bat their
Lordships could not consistently retrace their
steps, on the ground of What passed:in the other.
House of Parliainent. A Riiyal Message was re-
ceived by both HOuses, on, certainly, a most af-.
leering subject. If the Sovereign though; he
bad reason to suspect the fidelity of his consort;
there was no cootie be could so properly adopt as
to take the sense of Parliament upon the subject.
He had so recurred; and. had laid upon .he table
doctiments which he was desirous might be in•
soected and considered of, in his (Lord E's)
opinion, the most forbearing, consistent. and
respectful way. Whatever might be his avowed
opinions of Secret Committees, lie yet held that,
in several cases, they were necessary, more par.
ticularly in a case of such difficulty and delicacy as
the presery In cases where individuals were
openly accu!ed of crimes, though conclusive proof
may fail, still a at ain upon the character would
remaitt. The proposed mode was in a great de•
gree calculated to avert this. He thought there
was no case before, them that would lead to his
belief that an impeachment would take place ;
and this he observed in answer to the alleged con-
tingency, that their Lordships would or may be
placed in the situation of both Judges and Jurors.
He agreed in the effect of the law as stated by the
Noble Earl (Liverpool) -yesterday; nor did there
seem to him any thing on the face of the proceed-
ings that could lead to the procedure of impeach.
ment. He thought it was immaterial whether
the proceedings of both Houses were contempo-
raneous or not. There could be no doubt hot the
obvious reason for the postponement in •the House
of Commons was only the hope that same accom•
modation may be effected in the interval 5 and he
agreed in the principle with his Noble Friend
(Lord Lauderdale), that the House in the present
instance ought not to retrace its steps.
The Earl of ItossLym said, their Lordships
seemed of opinion that some short postponement
was desirable, and between the two propositions
to that end, he had no difficulty in preferring the
mode suggested by the Noble Lord. (Kenyon), as
more consistent with the true dignity of the House.
As the obvious ground was the hope that some-
thing favourable might occur in the interval, the
tnode of putting off the Ballot till Monday was
the most dignified and consistent course of the
two.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH seemed of opinion that
a sort of middle course would be still preferable,
namely, to appoint the Committee that•evening as
ordered, and to fix its fist sitting for Saturday ;
because it forcibly struck him, that if any success
was to he expected in the way of conciliation, it
would best be obtained by that House showing
a determination to proceed in the way propos'eti
without much delay, unless the negociatiim bid
fair to be favourably terminated aphist a parti-
cular time.

The Earl of DoNOUGHNORS spoke at some
length. The present debate be could not hut
regard as a continuation of yesterday's discussion.
It applied to the same questions and argoincutS
On butts sides, and was founded on the same
principles as were advanced last evening. There
were no new or rational arguments advanced for
altering the discussion of last night. No solid
argument could be bounded as to what had occur.
red in another place. The postponement for a
few (lays was not material. The mode originally
proposed was a line of decent, re:Teeth'', alit!
conciliatory proceeding. 11: was afros! altering
:tbe mode the House had deliberately decided up-
on. They would forget their duty to themselves,
or" what was due :o the high Personage in ques-
tion, if they were contented to alter the comae
decided upon on the single ground of the other
House not having come to its decision upon the
subject ; and as to the effect of the law upon the
case, as laid down yesterday by the Noble Earl
.opposite, it appeared to be sanctioned by the
concurrence of the greatest Constitutional Lawyer
in the country, his Noble Friend near him.
The Marquess of LANSDOWN explained, and
said, that his Noble Friend (Lord Donongtnore)
bad been completely mistaken, when he thought
that he wished to change the course of the pro-
ceeding which bad taken place last night. It
could not now be stopped. The observations he
had addressed, to their Lordships were to the two
suggestions of the Noble Baron and the Noble
Earl, grounded, as be understood, on certain ne-
gociations out
_oldoors.
The LosD CHANCELLOR put the question, that
their Lordships should then proceed with the
ballot ; on which they divided, when there sips
peered—

Cantehts
Proxies
----108

Non• Contents
PfOXitS

- 29

Majority

Their Lordships then j oceeded with the
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY reported, that, tie..
cording to the ballot, the tollowing Noble Lords
were appointed as cons

iititing the Se. rei Coin.

mittte :
The Archbp. of Canterbury,
The ,Lord Chancellor, •
The Earl of HarroNehy, L.P.
Duke of Beaufort,
Duke of Northumberland,
Marquess of Lansdown,
Marquess-of Buckingham,
Earl of Liverpool,
The Lords' Committe,
ittettley next, dud the ii

Earl of Dottoogitmore,
Earl of Braoch:oop,
Visc.,unt Sidmout
Lord Bist),,p of London,
Lori! Itede.dale,
Lord Lao4rdalr,
Lord Eiskior.

weir ordered to sit on
cloud rapers columuni.