The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-24 00:00:00

Mons in obstructing and impeding those banks but
commercial reforms ? What were all the interferences
with the Navigation Laws but commercial reforms ? What were
the wars in India and in China but the consequences of commercial
reforms ?—(hear.) A statesman, whose sagacity never was sur-
passed, Wit it down as a maxim, that the moment we opened the
trade with China, we should remove the foundations of our Indian
empire.—_(Hear.) The Bight Ilon. Baronet told the House that
he expected a period of prosperity to follow the distress which now
prevailed, and that be expected it from the experience of past alter.
nations of prosperity and distress. But lie (Mr. A.) called on the
Hen. Baronet to say whether he expected the prosperity about
to come to be followed by another period of distress—such as that
which had just been passed through ?—and if the prosperity was
not to be permanent, was it not the first duty of Government, and
of her Majesty, to avoid accelerating the years of prosperity which
were to be followed with a recurrence of disaster and distress, and
the ruin of thousands, and to consider in what way a remedy
was to be applied to the present disordered state of society,

from which those fluctuations were inseparable. In his judg-
ment they were bound in honesty, and by every dictate of wisdom,
to adopt one of two courses—either to maintain the present value
cf money and to raise equally Ge value of contmodites, or to be re-
duce the standard of value ; that was the only alternativo. Ile
(Mr. A.) could not in this debate point out the means by which
etth'r side of the alteration was practicable; but he would
demonstrate to any committee, or to any select body of men, that
Parliament had the power of preserving the value of money at one
standard—(Cheers)—and that every measure which they adopted
without reference to the prevention of prices from rising and fall.
ing, would bring the country into further difficulties.
Mr. ROEBUCK thought that the Right lion. Baronet bad not

scceived the slue meed of approbation from friends or opponents
which his conduct meriteil.—( Hear, hear, from the Tory benches.)
He (Mr. Roebuck) was disappointed when he saw the Right Hon.
Baronet opposed by those of his own ranks, who ought to have
been foremost in his support, and when the opposition was joined in
by those on the Opposition side, who ought, in consistency with
their former professions to have been still snore ready with their
support of the scheme.--(Hear, and laughter) The Right Hon.
Baronet had proposed a measure which, at least to him (Mr. Roe-
buck), appeared plain, easy of comprch‘insion,, straightforward, and
honest.—(Tory cheers, responded to by cheers and laughter from
the Opposition.) It could deceive nobody. The House could un-
derstand what it meant. The country could understand it. It
meant that if you desire to raise the revenue the country should
know distinctly and directly what they had to pay.—(Hear, hear.)
The people were not to be juggled and deceived into paying the sum
of money which it was necessary to raise. That sum was stated on
both sides to be necessary ; and for the raising of it there were be-
fore the House two distinct plans—the one to raise the money di-
rectly from the community—and the other to raise it indirectly by

way of tax on commodities of general consumption, although one
was the plan of the (tight Hon. Baronet, and the other that of the
late Government. Taking the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet as
a whole, and looking at it as one comprehensive scheme, he gave him
the full meed of his approbation for his honest and straightforward
course.—(Tory cheers.) The revenue was deficient, and neither on
the Ministerial or on the Opposition side of the House, could any
blame be attached to the Right Hon. Baronet fur that deficiency.
It was not occasioned by this side or by that—by the Whig or by
the Tory—but by the House of Cotnmons.—(Much claming.) They
might talk of the wars in Syria, and the wars in China and in India;
but the wars were as much the wars of tire Ministerial as of the Op.
position side of the House. They might talk of the increase of
the expenditure ; but the fault was as much on one side as the
other.—(Hear.) They were all for spending and none for saving.—
(Hear and laughter.) The whole fault was to be laid at the door
of the House, and one side was as much to blame as the other.—
(Hear, hear.) But he must tell the Right Hon. Baronet that the
whole ground of his approbation was that the people hail been made
to feel at whose door the blame was to be laid. Hitherto they
(the House) had been tampering with the finances. But the Right
Hon. Baronet came forward to say that he will not he a party to
paltry artifices—(Hear, hear)—that he was not going to resort to
loans, or to taxes on posterity—he said to them plainly—" I will
tax you."—(Laughter.) No one could say that the Right Hon.
Baronet had exaggerated the deficiency, and no one had asked for
any reduction of expenditure. The deficiency being admitted,
the Right Honourable Baronet asked the country if it was
prepared to adopt the prompt and immediate increase
to meet the deficiency.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Roebuck) thought
that was by far the must honest course to meet the difficulty in the
face, and to tell the people that the money is due, and that they
must pay it. His Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield said that
the measure would drive capitalists out of the country. His Hon.
Friend aspired to the character of a political economist, and he
would ask his Hon. Friend could it make the least difference—if
tine people must pay the deficiency—whether it was made by a di-
rect tax, or by a round-about process ?—(llear, hear.) But his
Hon. Friend went further, and said there was danger in letting
the people know what they had to pay.—( Hear, and a laugh.)
Why the lion. Member for Sheffield was an advocate for the peo-
ple governing themselves—and was he now going to take the
whole of their affairs into his own hands, and keep them in igno-
rance of what money they paid, and how it was applied ?—(llear.)
Was that the course now to be pursued ? He believed that that
course of proceeding would bring its own remedy. The Right
Hon. Baronet had come to the conclusion, though he had been
slow in coming to it, of asking them to pay by a direct taxation,
and a direct taxation which would not be fair to the middle class
of the community. Such was the effect of the tax according to
the Hon. Member for Sheffield, and he agreed with the proposition ;
he would even add one more item to its strength, which was, that
it showed the disposition of the aristocratic class of this country in
a more striking and salient light than any other mode of taxation;
and that was the reason he liked R.—CI-Tear, hear.) They
taxed tire community not for the benefit of the public,
not fur supplying the expenditure of the country, but for the
interests of the landowners. The Corn-laws put a large surn into
the pockets of the landholders ; but then to supply the expenditure
of the rate, they say what shall we do P Why, we will meet it by a
tax spread over land and funded property, and over what he could
scarcely call income. What was the consequence P Why, having
first taken a large portion for themselves out of the pockets of the
people, whets they came to pay the portion of the tax to the State
that fell upon them, they in fact paid nothing at all.—(Cries of
" 011, oh.") That was his first charge against the aristocracy
of this :country. What did they do ? The Right Honourable
Baronet, he believed, had done the best thing he could do ;
he had clone far better than those on this side of the House had
proposed to do ; he was prepared to accept the plan—to admire it—
to receive it ; he could do no otherwise. But what did the aris-
tocracy do ? They said, we must be careful in our generation; we
cannot tax the people exclusively; we will tax ourselves, and there-
by have the appearance of great moderation and regard to the work- ,
ing classes. This was an exceedingly happy stroke of party politics,
for by it they robbed the Liberal party of all the power that might
be derived front the prevalence of discontent among the
poor. They had got the middle classes in their power,
and they said, let us tax the Fundholder. Why this
had been done in old times; it had been done in France
on the same actual principle, though differing in degree. There
the landowner was relieved from any portion of the expense of
the Government, and it was cast entirely on the monied and in-
tellectual resources of the country. When they came to look at it
fairly and honestly, they would find that tine land was exempted
from any portion of this tax.—(Cries of " 011, oh," and laugh.
ter.) They might laugh if they liked, but it was the fact. But
to pass on. What was done by the plan? They taxed tine fundholder,
and then they came down to what, he must say, was the depth
of injustice committed by this tax. That injustice was committed
by themselves. He thought that the lion. Baronet felt that injustice
himself, and was only prevented from repairing it by the jealousy
of the landed interest. The injustice of the titling had been put
in twenty thousand shapes; the injustice was so flagrant, that it was
impossible to increase the enormity of the picture. The man
snaking 3001. a-year by the hard toil of his body and mind, that
man paid as much as him, who though living in mere idleness, saw
his means increase, and received his income of 300/. though doing
nothing. Of one man, his very existence, and that of his
family depended on the merest accident; by any unfor-
tunate occurrence affecting his health or his intellect
his means of gaining bread for his family were gone ; he was dead
while he lived, robbed of the power of his intellect, robbed of
power
of his body, and the consequence is, that his charts -'le
starve. But let the other man die, no such co, -en must
lowed. Why, the difference was perceptible-
Right llon. Baronet told him that he coo' -Pali
; ten sequence
If ftthr 1
u.
tion, Ire would tell him, that he me ..0 not snake the dietint.
Right Hon. Baronet knew, r ..et make it —(Cht*“"te) The
was perceptible, and appree' ell as he did, that the difference
.
go into the market sins'
mile in thernarket ; he knew that Inc could
"
in, funded prop, fell it. Ilecould take one roan of 300/. a.year
_.ny, and 3004 a-year derived from intellectual ex.
bets,
triton, and .sne difference between those two men was the difference
- •
.en the value of their respective lives and perpetuity. Ile
e
_died go bite the market, and ask what would be the charge for
insuring his life to the amount of the principal that would return
004 V. a.ycar, and any insurance office would tell him that charge.
If the Right Hon. Baronet then would proceed fairly be must strike
off that amount from the man oflimited income, and tax him on the
remainder, and he would titers have a plan perfectly fair and
just, Why could not that be done ? Why could not Zr table be
made of the value of different lives, frem :0, 30, 40, to 50 years.
A young man paid less to au insurancesoffice, because the value of
his lite was greater ; he would, therefore, confer more on the
stare. The value was the exact run of the difference between two
men's lives against perpetuity ; such tables were in the possession of
Government, and the necessary cutlet might be laid down in half an
hour. If it was not adopted then, a gratuitous injustice would he done
by the landed interest to all the other classes of the community.
He should like to hear that answered ; he wanted the people of
this country to be told why it could not be done. They wanted
somebody lucre bold enough to elect ire the injustice of the tax, and
astute enough to prove that it was not an injustice tot::
b equally
tintsqualls •
the man of unequal means and permanent property, for
plan they prevented that care and precaution which onablvd men
to secure to their families those provident resources which should
supply them with the means of living hereafter. He admitted
that it would be a cruel injustice to the people of this country,
if it should be carried, no matter how grave might be the neces-
sity. If there was a grave necessity for taxing the peeple, dint the
gravity of the necessity excuse the unjust means of meeting ?
(Hear, hear.) Does robbing rue do the community a benefit?—
(Hear, hear.) If there was a necessity of levying this sum, let
them cut it off him, and lay it on those who could afford to pay it.
He would furnish what he could, and the poor man would furnish
what he could.—(llear, hear.) The reason they taxed him was
because he did not possess land; for if he possessed land,
they would nut dare to tax hm, - (Oh, oh.) The people of
the countty had a right to know and understand that this was the
real case. He dint not lay the blame to the door of the Right Hon.
Baronet ; he begged to reiterate that he laid the charge of Nuts-
tice upon the majority of that House—a majority which the Right
Hon. Baronet could rot control, and who were bringinz into open
daylight, so that he who ran might read, the injustice of
the scheme to the people of this country. Pursuing this
subject, he asked the Right Hon. Baronet to answer him, and
explain why it was difficult to make the calculations
of the value of the uncertain incomes he had spoken
of. He did nut ask the value of every man's means, because the
Right Hon. Baronet must know that, cvin under his own 1,,
tern, he got but a rough, though practical estimate of each man's
wealth, but lie wanted the same thing in another shape. He
wanted a practical estimate of each man', power of paying—taking
the value of his life, and the value of his net income, and striking
off from that the amount necessary to insure his life to the amount
necessary to produce his income. That was a fair way
of estimating it, without reference to the individual's
health or strength. If they made the tax equal to all, this would be
fair and just ; if they wanted more money, increase the tax ; if
they required fifty millions, or whatever the suns might be, if they
could not levy it in any other way whatever, let teem add more to
the per tentage of the tax ; let them add the penny or twopence,
Mit still keep up tine difference between tine two classes of income;
then they would fairly tax the community, and have the money they
required. Is had beta urged as an objection to the proposal
of the Right Honourable Baronet, that it was a " vulgar
plan." A vulgar plan I He wished there was more of such vul-
garity, at lea,t as to statesmanship. He could not see any vulgarity
in endeavouring to pay their debts. If they were honest in private
life, they would make their expenditure equal to their income; if
they were dishonest, they would go on day by day making their
expenditure larger than their income, but they would come at
length to the natural result; there would be a stand still, a bank..
ruptcy, or, if there was no actual bankruptcy for any one but the
trailer, yet there was a bankruptcy of honour and honesty, annul they
were ruined. And what was honesty in private life might be
extended also to nations. (Loud cheers.) He could not
conceive in what sense it could be thought vulgar to
pay their debts.—(Cheers.) But there was another objection
willing to
eereoet,i,
tiest:lsifa:matr:htdl vulgarity,
iteriv
ri:tatay
c,.
sprays
bha,uemerteconui:ten,:t:lst•atoi
to
made, which was stated to be of a far more formidable
sai
nature.
that
clanger
t'Th They elyaxmt
oi
,g,tkahtsebaceno inquisitorial
be
eat
nnnercial
what each man made was ascertain:d•
him a matter beyond his comprehension. He knew 3 that in this
country there was a great disl'ke to let it be known how tnuch each
I man was woe h. He thought this was a vulgar prejudice—(Hear,
hear)—that was what he called vulgarity. If they were poor let
them honestly say so ; if they were rich there were plenty who
would find it out.—(Laughter.) He could not understand by what
process it could be that what was called credit increased the