The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-01 00:00:00

doubt the utility of his propositions. Now what he would \
propose was that instead of ten sail of the line there
should be twenty—not moored up in Portsmouth or Ply-
mouth, where there was a liability of all their services
becoming useless, but in the Cove of Cork. His reason
for this proposition was this, that in the Cove of
Cork they would have a full command of the Chan-
nel and all its bays.—(Hear.) In two months or
six weeks perhaps they would obtain a set of naval
officers of experience in their profession, and of high
character. But he believed that it was a very bad effect
which was wrought upon naval officers by serving in
small ships, and he felt assured that no educatien was
equal to that which was obtained by services in small
vessels. There were several series of services in the
respective ranks to which he was happy to bear testimony,
but to the terms of which he was not quite ready to
assent. The Hon. and Gallant Admiral the Commander-
in-Chief had been said to have been sixty-eight years in
the service.

Sir G. COCKBURN—That is wrong.
Captain ROUS—He believed, at any rate, that the
Gallant Admiral had entered the service in 1777, and
that would show the term of service which he had
stated. He thought it much better to have twenty sail
of the line effective in their department than ten sail of
the line lazy and useless.
Admiral BOWLES said that he thought these ob-
servations were superfluous and uncalled-for.
Captain PECHELL said that he had not the slightest
desire to confute the representations of the Hon. and
Gallant Admiral, but he did think that something was
due to the country, in order to assure them of the qua-
lities of the ships in the navy, and of the means by
which it was to be assured of the nature of the defences
on which the country depended. He was the last man
in the world to disparage the efficiency of the navy.
He was not one to cry up the Russians, or to allow the
representations of Admiral Darini, of the French
navy, but he did believe that some alteration was
necessary, in order to render the navy effec-
tive in itself and satisfactory to the country.
He would therefore support the Gallant Officer in all
that could be done to promote so desirable an object;
but he, at the same time, hoped that he would give
those vessels a fair and proper trial. lie (Capt. Pechell)
did not blame him for turning_ frigates of large con-
struction into steam-vessels. He thought the experi•
went was right, although he thought that such alters- I
tions were not in accordance with the strictest rules of
ship-building—sawing ships in the middle and putting
engines into them, leaving the fore parts, the bad parts
of the vessel still standing. But still it was a different
thing to do that only once and to do it always; and he
did hope that when the Gallant Admiral gave orders to
construct other steam-vessels, he would place the pro-
pelling screw in them, at the same time adapting them
for that purpose. It was more than two years since he
had drawn the attention of the late Secretary to the Ad-
miralty (Mr. Sidney Herbert) to this subject, but it
was only very lately that he beard of the systems being
so far adopted that the screw was placed in the Rattler.
He had recommended some time before that the pro-
pelling screw should be placed in the royal yacht, but
that recommendation was not acceded to. He yet found
by the public press that a vessel to be attached
to the royal yacht was to be acted on in that manner.
At the present time it was absurd to talk of steam
frigates being used as vessels of war, when half of those
vessels were required for the machinery and similar pur-
poses. He did hope that the construction of these ves-
sels would be on a different principle, and he thought
that the secretary of the Propelling Company would re
eeive the reward which his merit deserved from a grate-
ful coiustry. They had been indebted to Captain,
Symonds for great improvements in their naval architec-
ture ; for though he had not had the advantage of being
a ship-carpenter by trade, he was a thorough seaman,
and had opportunities of testing, and abilities to judge,
the merits of the ship. Thus he could remedy the errors
by supplying what was required by her. They were
also indebted to Mr. Whyte for certain improvements,
and he thought it was but right and fair, that they
should encourage competition. It was one of his quar-
rels with the late Admiralty that they did not encourage
Mr. Whyte. He had no hesitation, however, in saying
that their navy bad arrived at such a state of perfection
that they might fairly set at defiance the naval power
of the world. He had not been in the House when the
Secretary of the Admiralty opened his budget, and ho
rather thought that the Hon. Gentlemen had taken the
House by surprise on this occasion ; but, before he
acceded to this increase in the navy estimates, he should
wish to hear a few particulars as to the expenditure of
this public money. At this moment they were told that
a Committee was on foot in London, to endeavour to
ascertain in what manner the treaties of 1831 and 1833
had been carried out. They were told that a large sum
of money went to support a fleet on the coast of Africa,
which might, on to-morrow, be withdrawn. It was
rather an unusual circumstance that treaties obtained at
so much labour, and so much cost, might yet
be, with scarcely any notice, converted into so
much waste paper. They were told that the
Ministry of this country might find some other mode
of doing away with the slave trade, otherwise than by
retaining cruisers at the mouths of the rivers where
slaves were embarked, and in those other places where
they were landed. But it was curious to him to find in
every part of Europe parties flattering themselves that
they could by any other means than by cruisers do away
with this nefarious traffic. No complaint had, he be-
lieved, been made that they were not sufficient for this
purpose. As for the question which had been raised in
the French Chambers, and entertained by the Minister
of this country, he (Captain Pechell) should be ashamed
to sit in his place as a naval officer in that House, if he
did not state his opinion on the subject. The circum-
stance of a French Minister coming into this country—
into Downing-street—seemed to him the same as if
a thief were deputed from the " swell mob" to sit in
Scotland-yard with Colonel Rowan, for the purpose of
getting rid of the police officers. No doubt this commis-
sion and the Noble Duke,on the part of France, who was
a party himself to the treaty of 1833, would be glad to
get rid of this section of the British navy. Before the
year 1835, they had not been enabled, to any great
extent, to put down the traffic in slaves on the coast of
Africa ; for before that time the efforts of the officers
and men on that station had been completely paralised.
Since that year, however, he found that the British
cruisers had been eminently successful, and if they took
the two last years, they would rind there had been cape
tured eight vessels bearing the flag of the United States,
the Brazilian seventeen, the Portuguese sixteen, the
Spanish sixteen, the Monte Videan five, and an-
other ship sailing under no flag, making altogether
sixty-three slave traders taken in two years, only nine
of erLich, however, had a cargo of slay, son board, and
therefore he thought that the British cruisers had shown
themselves peculiarly efficient. Had it not been for those
treaties, those vessels would not have been taken. In
conclusion, he hoped that the naval officers employed on
that coast, subjected to the pestiferous influences of that
climate, would be found deserving the support of their
country, so that when they returned with shat-
tered frames and destroyed constitutions, the Board
of Admiralty would give them that promotion to which
they were so justly entitled, and which they preferred
before any pecuniary reward which it was in the power
of that House to bestow upon them.
Captain CARNEGIE would only occupy the House
by making one remark in reference to the strictures
passed by the Gallant Commodore on the construction
of their steam ships. He (Capt. Carnegie) would only say
that he would deem it the highest honour to be placed
an command of one of them.—(Hear, hear.) He thought
the Board of Admiralty, by their exertions for
the improvement of naval afchitecture, deserved the
support of the house, and the thanks of the country.
Mr. HUME admitted that observations made in that
House on the state of the navy frequently produced good,
and he, therefore, did not object to discussions of that
nature, but lie must remind the Committee that they
were altogether running away from the question before
them.—( Hear, and a laugh.) The question before them was,
what was the number of men to be employed in the navy
and what was to be the expense. lie was one of those
who always advocated economy, but he never did so at the
expense of the interest or the character of the nation.
He could not however suffer that vote to pass without
opposition. At the same time he was sorry the Right
Hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Treasury, was not
present, because the Right Hon. Baronet, when he
brought forward his budget the other even-
ing, said lie would reserve any observations
upon the proposed increase of the navy until
the navy estimates should come before the House. He
had therefore expected that the Right Hon. Baronet
would have stated the reasons for augmenting or con-
tinuing the present number of men employed in the
navy. The present taxation of the country exceeded
58,000,000/., and it was a matter of regret to him that
so few Hon. Members were present, when a large pro-
portion of that sum was to be voted away. They were
going to make an increase in the navy estimates, and
he wanted to know, from any Hon Member of the Ca-
binet, whether they could state *any reason why the
naval force of the country should be so much augmented
over what it was in former years. For every
previous augmentation, they had had a good and suffi-
cient reason assigned, and he could not understand how
it was that none was given now. The situation of this
country was much better now than it was ten years back
and he therefore considered Parliament had a rig ht to
ask the Government to ,
give some good reason for this
proposed augmentation. The Committee must not forge
that they might do harm by maintaining too
reatat
g
force as well as by keeping too little, because it not un-
frequently happened that an increase in either our army
or navy excited the suspicions of foreign powers, and in-
duced them to augment their forces. In 1836 the num-
ber of men employed in the British navy was 115,100,
bot in the present year it was proposed to increase it to
149.100, making a difference as large as 34,000, being
equal in comparison to the total force employed
in the 1792.. It did appear to him then that they
ought to have some explanation from the Government,
as to the grounds upon which this augmentation was to
sake place. The expense of the army, navy, and ord-
nance in 1835 was 11,000,000/..—that was 6,000,000/.
for the army, 4,900,0001. for the navy, and 1,000,0001.
for the ordnance, makinss a total of upwards of
11,000,000/ , but now the Government proposed to add
4,000,0001. to the expenses. Unless, therefore, some
satisfactory reason were given by the Government, to
justify it, he did not think it was the duty of the Com-
mittee to agree to the vote.—(llear, hear.) The
amount was one-fourth more now that it was in 1834 or
1836, and in the absence of any explanation, he must
move as an amendment that the sum be 36,0001. instead
of 40,0001—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT wished to say a few words
with regard to the question before the Committee ; and,
tit the same time, he would take the opportunity of
replying to the Hon. Member who had just resumed his
seat. The Hon. Member had said that no explanation
had been given for any increase in the navy estimates,
but he di&red with the lion. Measber. He begged
leave, in support of this statement, to remind the Coln-
anittee that, when his Right Hon. Friend the First
Lord of the Treasury proposed the continuance