Star.
London, England, 1830-03-20 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS-FRIDAY.

The SPEAKER communicated to the house that he had been I
summoned to the House of Lords to hear the Royal Assent given to 1
several Bills (for which see House of Lards' report.)
On the motion of Sir G. CLERK, Lad Ellenborough's Divorce
Bill wu read a first time.
Mr. Aid. THOMPSON presented a petition from the Muter.
and Wardens of the Watermen's Company against the building of
a new bridge at Lambeth.—Labi on the table.
Mr. T. B. CARTER presented a petition from the licensed vie-
twiner. of Portsmouth and Poetics against the throwing open dun
trade of beer.—Laid on the table.
The Marquis of CHANDOS presented a petition from a hundred
in Buckinghamshire, complaining of agricultural distress. The
noble lord observed, if it were intended at all to ameliorate the
condition of the agriculturists, the most direct. and immediate
course would be to take off the duty on malt. He felt grateful
to Government for what had been done in taking off the duty
on beer, but he was fully persuaded it would not afford the relief
required. The duty on malt was particularly oppressive on the
farmers.
Mr. HEATHCOTE considered that the taking off the duty on
beer was necessar► w the doing 'say with the monopoly in the sale
of that necessary mice. That monopoly he considered to affect the
public as much as the duty on it. It was as undeniable fact that
the price of beer was kept up by those monopolists, 0-e brewers.
at the same price now as in the war time, when malt and barley
were double the price they are at present. The public derived no
advantage from the fall in price; it went into the pockets of the
monopolists ; and he considered that by throwing open the trade i
this injurious system would be at once destroyed.
Mr. C. CALVERT considered that the opening the trade would I
not be attended by the advantage to the public. It would transfer
the business into new hands, but without producing, in his opinion, 1
an increased consumption of 100 barrels of beer.
The petition was then brought up, and ordered to be printed.
I The Marquis of CHANDOS also presented a similar petition
from Burnham, complaining of distress.—Ordered to be printed.
Lord EASTNOR presented a petition from the licensed vic-
tuallers of the City of Hertford against throwing open the sale of

beer.
Mr. DUNCO3IBE presented a petition from the farmers and !
others in Ho'deniers and its vicinity, complaining of agricultural
distress.
Mr. SYKES presented a petition from the merchants. shipowners,
and inhabitants of Kingston.upon-Hull, complaining of the East
India monopoly, and a similar petition from the members of the
Trinity House in Hull.
Lord ALTHORP presented a petition from the parish of Wel-
lingborough, in the county of Northampton, against the severity of
the law relating to forgery.
Lord F. LLYESON GOWER moved for copies of certain cor-
respondence with the Irish Government on the subject of the Irish
estimates in 1829.
Lord F. L. GOWER postponed to the 26th the second reading
of the bill for providing for deserted children in Ireland.
Mr. BRA NSBY COOPER presented a petition from 'the inha-
bitants of Wootton-under-Edge against the truck system. „„,,
Mr. B. COOPER also presented a petition front the inhabitants
of the county of Gloucester, praying for some nseasure to prevent
the frequency of the crime of horse-stealing.
Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from the Rev. Thomas
Smith, of the city of London, praying for some measures fur fecal-
taring the erection of churches, and complaining of the system of
pluralities.
Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from certain electors of
Waterford, against the return of Lord George Berestbril.— To be
taken into consideration on Wednesday, April 27.
Mr. O'CONNELL moved for an account relative to the fees, &c.
received in the office of Commissioners of Bankrupts for the last
three years.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER suggested that
the papers would probably, be rather complicated, judging from the
lengthened description •of them in the notice, it might be con-
venient if the honourable gentlemen would give notice of Iris motion

respecting them. -
Mr. O'CONNELL said hedid no: apprehend that the production
of the papers would be attended with any difficulty, as they were
merely in continuation of similar documents laid on the table of the
house up to 1827.
A report was brought up from the lords, announcing that their
lordships had agreed to certain bills.
Lord MIS lON presented a petition from the inhabitants oil
Bury ht. Edmunds, praying for a revision of the criminal laws. j
Mr. BULLhR presented a petition tivm the inhabitants of a
certain district in orksbire, respecting the renewal or the East
India Charter.
Mr. W. WHITMORE presented a petition from the same die.
trice, praying for a free trade with China.

THE WEST INDIA INTEREST.

The Marquis coiCHAKlloipresen ied--a—petition from eettain
West India planters and merchants, complaining of distress. The
noble lord suggested that a reduction of the duty upon coffee would
be an easy and effectual source of relief, without producing any in.
jury to the revenue.
Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS gave notice that it was his inteii.
tion, after the Easter recess, in conjunction with his noble friend,
to bring under the consideration of the house the commercial dis-
tress of the West India colonies. and to refer their case to a cont.
mittec of the house. He should move for such committee on idle
4th of May.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that on this
occasion he could not avoid stating to his noble friend and his hon.
friend that he had by no means left out of his view the difficulties
of the interests which they represented, and it would be extremely
satisfactory to him to be able to devise any measures which would
afford them full and immediate relief. But in the reduction of
taxation which he had proposed, with a view to the general interests
of the country, he thought that those measures which he had aug.
grated were the best calculated to promote the general advantage.—
Taking all the circumstances of the country into consideration, he
still thought that the mode which he had proposed was the best
which could be devised in our present situation ; and although the
reduction of taxation which was contemplated might not afford any
immediate relief to the West India proprietors, yet any thing that
tended to better the condition of the consumers of their produce must
be attended with ultimate benefit to them.

Mr. GORDON wished that seven or eight shillings were taken
off the duty upon sugar. He was convinced that the increase of
consumption would save the revenue from any loss.
The petition was laid on the table.
Mr. WODEHOUSE begged to ask the right hon. gentleman
what course he meant to take with regard to the adjourned debate,
and the other business before the house ?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQID.R said he wished to
go into the committee, in order to get a vote to meet the necessary
expenses of the navy. The house would then resume, and be should
be prepared to proceed with the adjourned debate.
Mr. SPRING RICE moved for a return of the amount of spirits
in the possession of the rectifying distillers of London on the 15th.
arch.—Ordered.

Sir 11. W. RIDLEY presented a petition from an engineer,
stating that be had invented a machine for the lifting wale into
barges, and discharging it from them, by which a reduction of
three shillings a ehaldron might be effected in the price of cosh.
The petitioner prayed for encouragement
Sir ARCHIBALD CAMPBELL presented a petition fioni
the wrporation of Glasgow, for the opening of the tide with China.
Lord W. POWLETT presented a petition from certain lead
mining districts in the county of York, complaining of the rapid
Increase of the importation of lead from foreign ports, and said he
hoped the case of the petitioners would attract the attention of his
majesty's ministers to the subject, and induce them to propose a
proportionate protecting duty on the import of foreign lead.
Mr. BERRIES believed that protecting duties in cues like that
of the petitioners inflicted a deep injury on trade generally. In at.
tides of general use, and entering into the manufacture of other
wrought materials, competition in the market should regulate alto.
gether the price at which the public should be supplied.
The petition was read and laid on the table.

SUPPLY.

On the motion of Sir (1. CLERK, the house went into a com-
mittee on the supply.
In the committee a resolution was proposed by him, and agreed
to, that a sum not exceeding 603,2001. should be voted to his ma-
jesty, to defray in part the expense of victualling certain of our na.
val forces. . . .

The house resumed, and the report was brought up, and ordered
to be resumed on Monday next.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.
it was agreed that the house, at its rising, should adjourn until
Monday next.

STATE OF THE NATION.

The adjourned debate on this subject was then resumed.
Colonel SIBTHORP took a review of several of the speeches
which had already been uttered on this subject. He principally
commented on the injurious effects produced on the public mind by
the differences of opinion prevailing within those doors on the sub-
ject of the causes of the present generally.admitted distress. It
must tend to excite doubt and dissatisfaction abroad. He knew
that great distress was felt, and a loss each year on wool was sus.
tained by the growers of Lincoln county only, to the extent of
200,0001. per annum, the tad worth 365. not fetching latterly more
than 17s. Within these 15 years past the poor.rates there were
really more than doubled ; yet the right hon. member for Liverpool
had calmly assured them that agriculture was not altogether ruined.
Very pleasant and satisfactory consolation truly ! It was admitted
the distress was but too general, and, if they did not grant the tom.
mittee of inquiry, the sooner they sent us all (as an hon. member
once said) into the Thames together the better. (Laughter.) The
noble duke, in the other house, had contended that timber bore its
far usual prices: Now he would say he knew it did not carry one.
half its former price; and when it was recollected there were five
hundred thousand loads increase of imported timber last year to
compete with our own ; this year he believed timber would bear no
price at all. (A laugh, and hear.) The petitioners came to their
table reluctantly ; but hunger was a sharp sauce, and forced their
distress to find a tongue and speak out those losses and privations.
He earnestly hoped the committee would be granted to the united
prayers of so many petitioners. The hon. member concluded by
reading a quotation frets Burke, as applicable to the subject, which
was in these terms:—" A vigilant and jealous eye over execute"- or
judicial magistracy, an anxious care of public money, an openness
approaching towards facility to public complaint—these seem to be
the true characteristics of a house of commons ; but an addressing
houseof commons ands petitioning nation,a houseof commons fullot
confidence when the nation is plunged in despair, in the utmost her.
ninny with ministers, whom the people regard with the utmost ab-
horrence (I would rather use a milder word)—doubt ; who vote
thanks when the public opinion calls upon then) for impeachment—
who are to grant, when the general voice demands accounts—who
in all disputes (rather differences) between the Feople and adminis-
tration, presume against the people—who punish their discord, but
refuse even to inquire into the provocations of them, is an unnatural,
a monstrous state of things in the constitution. Such an assembly
may be a great, a wise. an awful senate, but it is not to any purpose
a House of Commons."
Col. DAVIES said he would take that opportunity of stating in
an early stage, that as there was a strong party in that House in fa-
vour of mixing up the question of the currency with the question of
distress, and who thought they carried nothing except they carried
that question with them into the Committee, if the Committee were
granted, that he believed they would he very much mistaken in cal.
culating.they should succeed in carrying that object. For his part,
he should not support the Committee unless it were a distinct ar-
Tenement, that in the inquiry in the Committee the currency should
not be allowed to form any part of the question. It was a fact that
many of the Paisley weavers had gene to New York, and there in-
troduced that manufacture with success which used to be peculiar to
this country. This he considered one of the worst effects of high
taxation, that it drove the tuanufacturer out of the country. It
would be with England as it was with Holland, if that evil were
not remedied. An lion."gentlernan had proved last night, that the
consumption of cotton had Increased; but he had omitted to men-
tion the state in which the artisan was placed all the while—a state
of the gravest privation and wretchedness. Allusion had been
made to the great quantity of timber import, d, but the efrtct of that
was, to drive the British timber almost out of the market—there
was little or no demand for it now. His gallant friend (Sir fi.
Vivian) had proved, in a satisfactory manner, that the price in the
foreign market had an influence on the price at hone. To that pro-
position he was ready to assert. but the inference which be drew
fens it was, that we must pat the British produce on an equality
with his foreign rival, which could only be done by a reducible
taxes. The fact was, that at present we were newly ex-
cluded from the foreign ntarket. that our customers had not only
ceased to deal with us. but had become our rivals in the markets of
proposed Ameri
the Chant
and of the •
ast.
of tl.e itxcheqh respect to the reductioes
by W
Euer, he could tell :Ile
right hon. gentleman that tie reduction of the beer duty war" not
calculated to render that service to the poor which he seemed so co-.
fidently to anticipate. Unhappily the condition of the poor in re_r
of the counties was so miserable, that they never tasted beer at at
their wages affording no more than would pay for their lodging ars:
food. The way to benefit those poor people, and he did not ray se
to court any popularly out of doors, would be to give them cheap
bread. If they took off all the :messed taxes, and the taxes on
sugar and tobacco, it would be tin essential service to the public.
There were two modes of affording relief—a reduction of expen-
diture and a reduction of taxes. Ile was confident that a re-
ductioa of four millions of expenditure might be made, which would
cover any deficiency created by the repeal of the malt tax. A pros
petty tax of two per cent. would cover all the deficiency created by
the repeal of the 11%4C4M11 taxes, and the reduction of the taxes upon
sugar anti tobacco would not decrease, but add to the revenue pre-
' dewed by those articles. The reduction of the tax upon sugar had
proved this beyond dispute—it was followed by an increase from
two to four millions. A reduction, he thought, of two shillings 4
pound on tobacco in England, and one shilling in Ireland, would
answer every purpose. lie was anxious that the house should show
a sympathy for the distresses of the people, but he felt that lie could
nether vote for the motion, or the amendment.
Mt. HUDSON GURNEY admitted that the distress wss great.
He agreed as to the causes of this distress with the hoe. member for
Essex, and after alluding to the speech of 11y. liuskisson, the effect
,
of which he described as showing that the measure of his majesty '+
government were suLstantielly correct, he adverted to the state of
the alteration of the currency. Never was there such a spoliation.

I