The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-23 00:00:00

tition by a large majority.—(Hisses and cheers, the former freeholders, candidly and fairly, possessing as you do, the
predominating.) elective franchise, if the law only permitted you to vote
Mr. SHIPLEY (of Carshalton) now rose and said, that ' for Catholic Representatives, whether you would not re-
if he had refrained from attending that meeting. he should ject such a privilege as a beggarly insult. I would ask you,
not think himself worthy of being a freehoder of the whether you would not assemble here not only once, but
county. He would not deny but tat it might be laud- from year to year,and even from week to week,and take every
able to have a strong aversion for the Roman Catholic legal and constitutional means to obtain what you thought
faith, but he (Mr. Shipley) would never say that your right, to return a Representative to Parliament who
it could be creditable to the sense and courage of Eng- ! had a community of sentiment with yourselves ?—(Loud
lishmen to be afraid of Popery.—(Great cheering.)— ' cheers.)—Well then, in Ireland our fellow-subjects pos-
Surely there could not be one person in that meeting who sees the elective franchise, hut they are only allowed to
had a just claim to wear breeches, who could entertain so return Protestant Representatives.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
absurd and groundless a fear.—(Great cheering, and a cry —Then, if you feel the force of what I have been stating
from a person in the crowd of—" You have been reading Ito you—if, as Protestant freeholders, you could only vote
Shakspeare.") They hail heard much of the Coronation for a Catholic Representative. Let me ask you, whether,
Oath as standing in the way of the rights of their Roman as Englishmen, you had your just rights, and thought
Catholic fellow-subjects.—(Uproar and confusion.) One your privileges could be secured by the representation of
gentleman amongst the meeting was aware that it did not those who differed so materially front you on the greatest
stand in the way. Mr Fallmer, the Member for the and most important of all questions—Religion.—(lra
county knew better—he knew, from his long intimacy rnense cheering, which continued for some minutes,)—
with the late Lord Liverpool, that the Coronation Oath Gentlemen, you Lave from me, I do assure you,
did not stand in the way of concessions to the Catho- a mast candid opinion, and the undisguised sentiments of
lies.—(Disapprobation.) The King, however, was not my heart.—(Cheers.) I have devoted a large portion of
bound only by the Coronation Oath, but he was bound, my time to reading and to observation, and I have had
he might say, by another oath—he was beund by as strung a considerable experience. Allusion has been made to facts
tie as the Coroeation Oath--by the seal of his ancestors—he collected by travelling in foreign countries. I have passed
was bound by the birth right of Englishmen, and by the twelve months in Ireland ; I have passed much of my
foundation of British liberty—Magna Charta itself—not time at the head-quarters of Popery in Italy, Ger-
to deny justice to any man. How much less then was he many, and other parts ; and, I do assure you, tbat
authorized to deny it to six millions of British subjects. the result of my honest experience is, that in nothing has
(Uproar.) the Church of England, to which I am devotedly attached,
A person in the crowd here called out, " Only five cause to be afraid. I appeal to any one who has known
millions."—(Laughter.) me, and I am sure he will say, that a more sincere and
There were many persons present who could inform devoted Protestant, both from education and habits, does
the meeting that, at the time of the union with Scotland, not exist; and if I believed there was any danger to the
the same alarm was attempted to be raised at the idea of Established Church, there would be no risk for me
admitting Scotch Presbyterians into Parliament. The too great to oppose it.—(Loud and continued cheers).—
measure, however, passed, but still no Englishman be- Now, gentlemen, 1 have touched on these points—points
came a Presbyterian. (Disapprobation.) On the con- as I conceive to be regarding our duties—and as men and
trary numbers of the Presbyterians had conformed to the Englishmen a still higher duty for us to discharge re-
Church of England. (Disapprobation.) Since that day mains—namely, that of Christianity.—(Cheers.)—l per-
the Highlander had laid aside his dirk, and had forgotten fectly well know that this question is argued by many, and
rebellion. (A cry of 1745.) Would they believe then by many whom I highly respect—entirely on religious
that the proverbially generous and open-hearted Irishman grounds. lam willing to meet those who differ with me
—(here the uproar became so great that it was some mi. in that view of the question. If lam asked to argue with
notes before he could finish the sentence—the Irish were them, then I approach the ground with the greatest awe,
evidently at an alarming discount)—would reward their and I take the goldesa law which pervades the Bible from
confidence by treachery. (Cries of no,no, and disappro- beginning to end—" Do unto others as youwouldbe done
bation. ) Let them not believe it—it was a lie—(cheer- unto." (Great cheers.) I have been taught—we have
ing and uproar)—and a lie dictated by the father of lies all been taught—" To love our neighbours as ourselves."
—(a voice in the crowd, " The Pope,"—great laughter) (Great cheering.) lam told in that sacred book, from
—to prevent that union amongst Christian people which which there can be no appeal, that that is the distinguish.
would shake the kingdom of evil to its foundation. (Die- ing—the all-prevailing principle of Christianity—(im-
approbation.) They had been told that the learning of the mense applause)—and I can assure you, Gentlemen, when
country was enlisted in the ranks of oppression, but lie I look at this question as a man—as an Englishman—or as
would tell them that the sentiments he uttered were the a Christian—that I feel convinced in these several capaci-
sentiments of the loyal, enlightened, and learned Uaiversity ties, lam discharging my duty in advocating the granting
of Cambridge.—(Cries of No, no, and uproar. )--He the removal of civildisabilities to my fellow Roman Catholic
trusted they would not suffer their good sense to be im- subjects in Ireland. Gentlemen, these are a few points that
posed upon—he hoped that men's minds would not be led respect principle. I have not yet argued the question de
astray, though all the Llacliguirds in England—(Here a /loss expediency, but upon this, as well as upon every other
scene of uproar commenced which it is impossible to de- way of considering the subject, the first question is, what
scribe—Cries of " Off ! off and "Go back to the Uni- is our duty? I own it does happen in this as in most
vet sity !" mingled with discordant noises of every descrip- other instances, that our interest accompanies our duty.—
tion kept Mr. Shipley from speaking another word for (Cheers.)—lt has been stated, as a matter of fact, that
at least five minutes.) six millions of our fellow-subjects in Ireland are all united
Mr. CATOE. then rose, and said, that he must entreat to a man to obtain what I conceive to be their just privileges.
that they would hear Mr. Shipley to a close. If they and do not think if I were an Irishman and a Roman Ca-
had only a little patience, they would 930 n perceive that tholic, that I could endure those years of villainy and op.
Mr. Shipley never intended to apply the obnoxious terms Pression which the Irish nation has been subject to.—
to them. (Cheers and confusion.)—Gentlemen, there is another im-
Mr. H. SUMNER rose amidst great canfusion.—l am portant view in which sensible and superior-minded men
not going to detain you ; I °lily rise to speak to order. look at this question. I shall tell you an anecdote that
Every person who is a freeholder of the county has a right was related to me a few days ago :—A very influential
to be heard ;he is entitled to a hearing as long as he be. gentleman told me he had changed his views on this subject.
behaved himself with decency.—(llear, and a leugh.)— I asked him if he had satisfied his own mind ? " Yes,"
But, Gentlemen, when he violates that, he forfeits his lie said, " I have; lam of opinion upon principle that
right, and ought not to be entitled to the indulgence. this question ought to be conceded. There is another
Mr SHIPLEY attempted to explain, but the noise was reason," he added, " why Emancipation ought to be
en peat that not a word could he beard.—(A voice " You granted—because it will make a difference, I suppose of
had better sit down—you look very ill.") ten millions a-ye.ir, to the Revenue in this country." I
The Rev. Mr. FERREE% Rector of Beddington, then pre- asked him to explain what be meant? He said, do you
seated himself to the meeting, but it was some time before know what a large force you have at present in Ire-
we could catch a single word the Reverend Gentleman land to keep that country in subjection ? We have
!laid. We understood him to speak in very high thirty thousand men there—thirty thousand men
terms of the character of Mr. Shipley, that he was ready to march to any part of the country upon the
friendly to enaancipetion, but a sincere supporter of the first appearance of insurrection ; and I believe the annual
Protestant Constitution.—(No, no, and cheers, mixed expenditure of that force to this country is little less than
with his.es, and cries of "We want no brimstone and three millions. In addition to that, in other ways, there
faggots.") would he in increased revenue to this country of 6 or 7 mil-
Payerrea then rose amidst great confusion, he lions a-year."—(Loud cheering.)—An Hon. Member of
wouto not teouble them long, but address himself to the the Legislature enquired what the revenue was of 14
subject up ,n which they had met ; the question was, millions of people in England ? and it was proved
should they or should they not surrender the Protestant to be fifty millions,—(hear, hear,)—while the revenue
Constitution without a struggle.—(Hear, hear,—end a per .of seven millions in Ireland was only five millions. Now,
son who we think must have been brought from London, why is this? If the Irish were placed on the same foot-
called out "'No we vont render.it.")—They were told that ing with ourselves—if there was an equal security given
none but educated people could understand this question, but to property in Ireland to what there is in this country, I
lie would say the humblest individual could judge of the mea- have not the least doubt that the revenue of Ireland would
sure.—(Laughter, and cries of " to be sure we can.")— most materially increase; and for one thing, I believe, we
No Catholic, since the glorious revolution of 1635, had should have the house and window taxes taken off. You
been admitted into the high offices of State, or either of have been told to-day that the misery, and poverty, and
the Houses of Parliament ; and if it was put to the distress which enis.s in Ireland would not in any degree be
common sense of England, they never would.—(No, no, relieved by Catholic Emancipation ; but lam hot of that
and yes, yea, mixed with hisses.)—He wag aware Ireland opinion ; and if you ask tne why,—l would shnply state
was in a bad state, but it was all owing to the line of policy because habits of industry would be formed, and culti-
that had been pursued Ministers; they ha I suffered the vated there as here. At present theme is no capital there ;
Catholic Association to gain that niteh that they lauded and if you ask why, the answer is who would go to a
it over the land and enforced the Oeverronera to submit. country with a property where there is no security ? Who
—(llear, hear.)—He would ask them, suppose they bad would embark his property in the employment
a Roman Catholic Government, would they suffer of individuals and ig different ways, where an in-
a meeting like the present ? No, they would disperse it correction and rebellion might take piece io
an
with bloodshed, std punish the ringleaders --(Great hour, by which the whole of that property might
laughter, and cries of "you never read Sir Francis Bur- be swept away ?—(Cheers.)—l have therefore no hesita-
detest speech.")--If the measure was greeted would it give tion in saying that on the score of interest only, even if
tranquillity to Ireland.—(Yes yes—No, no.)—The people you look to the question upon that alone, you ought to
of Ireland bed peer, taught by their designing priers to vote for Catholic Emancipation.—(Loud cries of no, no,
expect that with Cetholie Tenancipation they would get and immense cheere.)-4 do assure you that is my firm
every temporal comfort.—(Cries cf no such thing.)—He persuasion.—(Great confusion, and cries of " eff, off.")
could assure them it was He would again: ask them —lf we are persuaded that our Church and Christianity
was it fit and proper that Minister; should champ the 4rll as they ought to be, and secure, then we need not fear.
constitution. V. hat had the Catholics to complain of, (Goofueloo, and pries of " Let well alone.")—l am quite
they were allowed to worship God according to the sure that not one of ion will become a Catholic, though it
dictates of their conscience—their property and numbers is my firm conviction, on the other hand; thet marry of
during the last 20 years had moch increased, it was ab- the Roman Catholics will become Protestants.—(Bravo,
surd to say they were treated wish injustice.—(Yes, they bravo—hear, hear, and cries of down, down. )—Gen-
are)—was it fit that Catholics should leg4late for tleman, I have addressed you candidly and dispassionately,
testants?—(Cries of " No, no," end " Yes, yes.")—lle and I entreat you to pay that attention, and that attention
would assert that they were labouring under go civil die- only, to the observaeione ; have made es an honest freeholder
shility—,(Yes, they are—No, no.)—yet Ministers were of the county of Surrey. As I !wit' before, I came npt
about to surrender the Constitution, and all the petitions here to address you, but I should not have discharged
'spinet it were treated wish ;corn. He would here eu- my duty, if_ bad abstained frpm attracting your attention,
logize the manly .14 d consistent cosoleet of one of their after having heard the sentiments expressed by pthers
RepresentativeeL,JeWhicli do you mean?)—tie meant which were so widely at variance with my own. I trust,
" Palltner."—(Cheere aidhimseee.)-41e was consistent that by your vote this day you will at least assure the
but Ministers, in the course of one short week parted King and iii: Majesty's Government, that you warmly
with all their principle, and lost the confideatce of the peo- concur in the measnre.--(Cri;:s of " No, no, no.")—I
pie.--(No, no, no, and yes yes.)—He could not conclude may be mistaken, but I hope the majority of this Meeting
withoo,t peticing the firm and honourable conduct of one will be found to approve Most cordially of tbg measure now
distinguishedudy.opate of the Protestant cause, he meant proposed by his Majesty's Government. I shall not lenger
the Attorney-Genevai, (or' perhaps now Sir Charles detain you, but thank you for the kndncss and attention
Wetherell) he would not lend loinulf ~,to the destruction with which you have heard me.—(Loud cheers and
of the Constitution, he would not, as lie emphatically said, confusion.)
"sign its death warrant"—they all ought to oppose it, if !.e:t. M`Narr. addressed the meeting, and was assailed
they del not, the Constitution was gone—he would con- from some quarters with a cry of tithes. He complained
elude by sa,kg, that every Englishman ought to oppose in warm terms that whenever a Clergyman came forward
the pernicious locus:tee jntroduced by filinisters.—(Cheers to address a public meeting persons were found to assail
and hisser.) him, as if he were ernly governed by temporal interests.
Mr. BRISCOE next addressed the meeting and said,— This was as it should be in this time of the liberal pro-
Gentlemen, I did not come here for the purpose rrss of the human mind, when people judging only from
dressing you, but after the speech that has just been deli- their .ewn selfish motives, fancied others were governed
cereal, cannot abstain from begging the favour of being merely by tire same, He entreated the country to bear in
heard. It thee been dated that this great question has mind that the utmost pains were taleen by Catholics to dia.
been, and can only he, armed on the ground of expe- seminate works in favour of their faith, to some of which he
diency. Now, 1 beg most diatiNgly to repudiate that meant to point their attention. First, in an article in the
argument.—(Cheers.)-1 appeal to the very first principles Westminster Revie
ibew, d
, entitled "state, the Political \Vaggon,"
of justice—to the political principles of the Constitution—l
wbere it was descr tire exclusion
aappeal to your feelings as Christians to hear me out in or*o Patholice, resembled a waggon to which teams of
the fey observations I have to make, for I address you as grey and black horses Fet:e yoked in opposite directions, '
Englieltmen and as Christians, and beseech you to hear me and consequently pulling different way?. Flow, what was
with patience, I ask yon, among those inherent and intended at the present time—to yoke these difierent to-
inalieaable principle, if tIVe rights of consciepee are not loured horses in the same team, without reference to their
among the first?—(Great and koiii cheering.)—As particular nature and disposition—when probably the
great injury has been done to the Roman CathOliCe, cmrFtee might find that the irregular gait of the animals
ItTll as to all classes of Christians, by not referring veosittl allele the vehicle to pieces, and spread its fragments
to gilt orineiples, I beg you to keep them in view. 1 ask along the road.
It Was" this danger which he wished to
you whether she rights of conscience are not paramount avert—it was this IM:hire 11P to save. The Bev.
to all others ?-....-(irea,r, )sear. )...-I say, fearlessly, that in Gentleman then warmly enforced the necessity, as loyal
all religious matters the eight's of conscience are superior to and constitutional men, of their rallying round the f2onsti-
all human authority and all human pOwe;.—(Cheers.)— tion at this motuent, when it was assailed by the most dan
Fj4Cll man has a right to worship God from tt.,e genius and insidious mean., and prevent the introduction
.nttar of is pure breast, without being amenable to Popery into the Legislature of this kingdom.
any hiernac teseoonsibility.--(Continued applause.)— lie thought the error earnmitted by tire Legislators of the
This is a right fie:34A by Heaven, and not to be abrogated country wall that they ihougl4 fhey pp ;.:14 without
by tr;an.—(Continue) clteers.)—lf in this you agree with regard to the Providence of Grid, whiclo' 14 yion,
guide of all legislation ; for not only did
me, I call upon you to render that g‘easy.pi of justice to should be the
othases which you claim separately for yourselves.—/Hear, Divine Providence rule in Heaven, but also upon earth.
hear.)—l aaw .:0 nu_,, be just and fear not."—(lear, Tie ahooght that the sacred word of God eliould be regarded
hear, hear, and cries ef that's fair play !Goit my boy !) all legislation, eaed that religion should be made a
friends, we have heard mueae le day those who have part and parcel of ir, latinof 14:74.7-(Cheers.)
Nay • ,• ou a,
addressed you upon the subject of religions Llarty., and by Mr. DENISON presented hmself' ainicretl •4and
you, what is seaerpurs. Ile said, that since he first offered himielf
sonic tb
for the flas lime. NOw I world ask
the essential and sacred prieciple of the British Constitu- the atientiog al; freeholders Of Surrey, he never had
tion? Is it got that
,every free-tpees eelject hal a right to' in the Ideat'ili;ghir:ed has eeatiroonle• He should, what-
a voice in the :snaking of those laws--(clrowned i" cries of ever might be the consequence Of *such avowals, oereecere
no, no,—bravo, brasios and great confusion)—those in the same course ; .he had altvdys avowed' himself,
which are to govern the proceedings of time country.— and he ;441 continued to be, the consistent friend'of civil
Gentlemen, 1 repeat that this is an essential and almost and religious liberty, and the supporter of those measures
sacred principle of the 'latish Constitution.—(Cries of which would give encouragement to Roman Catholics,
" No, no," and " Bravo.")-4 would ask you, as Surrey and place them on an equality with their fellow-subjcets.