The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-08 00:00:00

THE sun, I,ONDON PutSDAV, PriffitlAll,l/0 s, 184/.

•
must gay there was a VerYgetteraiimpreaSibri that.tileir dlacistoild; Stag, time:. was Stiffieien4 ebiasultied slOsatese_Meer, G. Knight, Lord Viscount Mahon, and-Mr. Pendarves.
ear.) Ire did not: think that the country generally— i Sir R. INGLIS then moved the appointment of the
seesAnland; Colonel' poc,
teas those who formed the class of petitioners to that • following Members as a Select. Committee 'on public. pc-
House, would wish them to devote more of their time to titions : —Mr. - George William Wood, Sir Edward
debating, and less to the performance of practical busi- Knatelibull, Sir Robert Harry Inglis, -Mr.,Greene, Mr.
sumed in Mr. Charles Howard, Mr. Villiers Stuart, Can-
nes& If it was found that night after night was con- , Edward Buller, Mr. Brotherton, Mre Owen Stanley, Mr.
preliminary discussions leading to the postpone- ; Pusey,
ment of legislation, he (Sir R. Peel) did not believe that lain Jones, Lord Viscount Duncan, Sir Charles Douglas,
the people. would be satisfied. It was for them to strike Lerd'Fitzalan, and Mr. Buckley. - -
a balance between the advantages and disadvantages, and MaWAK LEY trusted that his Hon. Friend the Mem-
from the experience he had or the working of the pre_ - her for Coventry would not obeect to have his name in-
sent rule he would give it his support. seated in the list.
As the C4riniittee was now consti-
Mr. WAKLEY said there was a mode of redressing totecL the petitions were - -not-likely to receive-very fair
the grievance complained of, which was by cone„iti„g or generous treatment unless his lion. Friend were
more the feelings of the' people. If this were done amongst the number. After the statement that he was
these would be far fewer petitions presented; but, acting I often the only Member present, he hoped his Hon. Friend
in opposition to the-- people, the consequence was would accept the office, though perhaps he would not find
that they must . petition. The Right Honour- it very profitable. •
able Baronet considered that ministers had little I mr. ROEBUCK said-he believed he was perfectly cor-
er no peculiar interest in discussing ,the petitions of rect in stating that under the old rule respecting the
the people. Yet there were no persons in the public petitions. there were four separate stages in which
House who were so deeply interested .in discussing they might bee-discuseed ;he believed he was only stating
their grievances as the Ministers of the Crown. The what was known to every Member, when he said that.
late Ministry considered this their duty, and they most lno question was ever propounded excepting that of an
minutely examined them. Numbers of petitions were adjournment without a debate.
presented against them, a large nurnber praying their re- Sir R. PEEL said, that in the observations .he gals
moral. They could not have been pleased to hear or discuss made, he had referred not to the forms, but to the usage,
those petitions. In this case the Right Hon. Baronet of the House. According to the forms of the House, on
stated that they ought to look at the question practi- a motion being 'made that a petition lie upon the table,
tally ; they should do so, .and with a view to 'the jute-. a Member might, if he were so inclined,- asail himself of
rest of the community generally. He Would ask if the his privilege. It would be-seen on referring to the de-
mode at present adopted were consistent with the views. bates in Parliament, that there had: been very 'few debates
of petitioners ?He had seen a large bundle of petitions, upon the presentation of petitions thirty in number, presented by an Hon. Gentleman, all Mr. WILLIAMS did •not-- •
iphis
wish to persist inswing relating to one subject, and this occupied but half a mi- name withdrawn from the list.
cute. Considering the anxiety of people out of doors on The Committee was then appointed,five be the
to
public questions, the expense of petitioning, and the quorum.
great expectations entertained of the results of their On the motion of Sir G. CLERK, the following Select
discussions, what would be the feelings of petitioners, Committee on Printing was appointed—Sir Geo. Clerk,
when the grievances and opinions of thirty public meet- Sir Robt. harry -Inglis, Mr. Pusey, -Mr. Vernon Smith,
ings were presented in half a minute, scarcely the names Viscount Mahon, Mr. 'rufnell, and Mr, Patrick Stewart.
of the places being mentioned ? This was altogether far- COPYRIGHT OF DESIGNS.
meal, and unworthy of that assembly. There was a mode Mr. EMERSON TENNENT, having moved 114
'of lessening the number of petitions, as well as improv- the' House should resolve itself into 'a Committee of the
her their practice, and that was shortening the duration whole House to take into consideration the laws affect-
oeParliament. They should go back to their constitu- ing the Copyright of Designs for the ornament of arti-
ents more frequently. At present they had a lease for Iles of manufacture, -
seven years, and the unfortunate persons who sent them Mr. WILLIAMS said that it was not his intention to
have to pray of us to alter our proeeedings, but when take up the time of the House at that stage of its proceed-
they come with their complaints no discussion takes ings ; but as he had during the last session taken a
place. This is the House of the people; and this the very decided course in -opposition to any alteration of
course they take ; but what is the .course of the the present law, he could not allow that opportunity to
other House, who, as an .heredi.ary House, do pass without stating that he -Still entertained the same
not pretend to, represent the people .? In this hostility to such a change. He was persuaded that the
House those who pretended to represent the people Hon. Member for Belfast, if he had been thoroughly ac-
were gagged and muzzled, and were not allowed a single quainted with the. eubSeet, or. if he 'had been a man of
comment upon' a petition,•unless it contained what was business,would never have interfered with the existing law.
called a personal grievance ; then, if it did contain For forty years no change. had taken place, and it was
a personal grievance, it was requisite to bring very remarkable that during the depression of last year
a motion before the House upon that, and it was this branch was the one in which -the exports for the
notorious to Hon. Members that such .a motion was last year exceeded those of the preceding. He should
set down night after night, and week after week, before not be so anxious if the Bill of the Hon. MeMber only
it could be entered into,. yet nothing wss done to get rid affected the home trade, but he feared his proposition
of so crying a grievance. He had seen personal griev- would strike at the root of the foreign trade also. He
vances brought forward in both Houses of Parliament, on believed that the Bill'Would have that effect, if it resem-
- the same night ;in the House-of Lords,- those motions bled, as he was led to think it did, the Bill which the
would be entered into and considered, 'whilst in this Hon. Gentleman introduced last Session.
• House no notice would be taken of them He remem- The House then resolved itself into a Committee of
bored, some time ago, that a motion of this kind was the whole House.
brought forward by his Hon. Friend, the Member for Mr. E. TENNENT said that present Bill was the
Westminster, in that House, and by Lord Brougham in same in effect as the one of last Session. There were,
the other House. In the House of Lords Lord Brougham however, some alterations, for he meant to extend the.
was allowed te_state his grievance, and the account of it time of the continuance of the copyright to nine months,
occupied three columns of the morning newspapers ; and not a twelvemonth, as in the former Bill. Some
whil-.t, in the House of Commons, a few minutes was all alterations in the details, as suggested. .by the Board of
the space alloWed to his Hon. Friend, the Member for Trade, would also take place. The - lion. Member con-
Westminster, for the recital 'of his grievance. He eluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to amend
(Mr. Wakley) should 'in future entreat the people nut to and consolidate the law relating to the Copyright of
present any mere petitions to the Ho* of Commons, Designs.
but to take them all to the Upper House. It was An HON. MEMBER, whoSe name we could not
there they would be heard and lietened to ; it was here learn, objected to the Bill as being injurious to the menu-
that they could not be considered. 116 (Mr. Wakley) facturers who lived at a distance from the registry-office.
was one who had taken , upon himself, in the year After a few words from Mr. GREEN, which were in-
-1836, the responsibility of recomMending that an audible in the gallery,
amendment of the practice of the House should take place. I)r. BOWRING said there were many difficulties in
If the- Speaker's time were so much occupied, a deputy this country which did not exist in other places. In
Speaker might be appointed, • that they might sit there France, for example, the Prudhommes undertook the re-
nt an early hour to consult on . measures for the interests gistration of designs. It had been found in this country
of the peopla that the cost of obtaining redress for those whose inven-
Sir WAL'ER JAMES then rose, amidst loud cries tions had been interfered with was so great as to render
of " Divide." He 'would only take notice of one re- it almost impossible for designers to,ebtain redress. He
mark which had just -fallen from the Hon. Member op- (Dr. Bowring) Wished to have two evils remedied—first,
posite (Mr. Wakley). He had, indeed, stated several that there should be a means of general registration;
things in which' he (Sit W. Janice) could net concur. and, second, that there should be economical means of
He - could agree with the Hon. Member opposite that redress in cases where inventions had been invaded.
that House ought to represent the people, and that they Mr. MARK PHILLIPS stated that he had been on
ought to, study- the wiehes and interests of the people ; the-Committee last year, -and he could only say to his
it was their business to look after the people's interests, Honourable Friend that time and reflection had con-
and the question now .was, whether they were to conduct firmed him in the justness of the views which he then en-
their affairs in a business-like way, or to delay their tertained. lie should offer no objections to his intro-
affairs in a tedious and vexatious way ? duction of the bill—he could only hope that a question of
Sir V. BLAKE supported the motion of the Hon. so much importance should be fairly brought before the
Member for Greenock. The ancient right of the peo- House.
ple, relative- to the presenting of petitions, had been Mr. EMMERSON TENNENT, in reply, stated that
curtailed in that House, and he thought there should be he thought it would be the most convenient course to
every reasonable license for discussing them, on. their postpone all discussion as to the details of the measure
presentation. until the second reading of the Bill.
Mr. WALLACE rose amidst loud cries of " Di- The resolution was then agreed to.
. vide."' He was well aware that the House at that mo • - The House resumed, and leave was given to bring in
meat -was against Jilin. In :reply to certain objections the Bill, which was accordingly brought in, and read a
which had been made to his motion, lie begged to ob- first time.
serve that never had there been more 'business done than EXPIRING LAWS COMMITTEE.
in the years 1833, 1834, and 1835. when the right to On the motion of Sir G. CLERK, the Select Com-
discuss petitions. was exercised and admitted. He be- mittee on Expiring Laws was nominated .—Sir George
lieved that the time of the House would not be uselessly Clerk, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Sir Thomas
wasted in debates on petitions. What the people com- Fremantle, the Attorney-General, Mia Pigot, the So-
plained of was the monstrous practice of delaying a sin- licitor-General, Mr. Sheil, -Lord Eliot, Mr. Baring,•Mr.
gle point for four or -five nights, for purposes of party Wilson Patten, Sir George Grey, Mn'. Charles Wood,
triumph. He had no doubt but that the leading parties- Mr. Greene, Mr. Gladstone, and Mr. Home Drummond:
on each side of the House had already arranged bet Ween —Five to be the quorum.
them the weeks' debate, which was to be continued-from NEWSPAPER STAMPS.
Monday till Friday next, as they used to do last I)r. BOWRING moved for a return of the number of
Session.--e(Hear.) New that was the abuse of time of stamps issued to the ,different neWspapees in the months
which /he public complained. The people did not ob- of October, November, and December last, and a return
ject to the time spent in doing their own work, but the of the amount of advertisement duty paid by each.—
time consumed in Ministerial work and trickery. The Ordered.
people should have their political food. given to them day The House then adjourned at Half-past Seven o'Clock.
by day, or they would not take it at all. He was ter-
tam he brought before the House a proper proposition,
but as it had been overruled by the Speaker he should
abide by that. He thought the matter should be re-
ferred to a Committee, from which he expected the
greatest good. He begged to tell the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet opposite that he did not wish to take up the time
of the House, and that he would be content himself not
to occupy more than two minutes on presenting a peti-
tion, which he thought would be sufficient for all persons
who had not very dull brains.—(Hear, hear, and
laughter.) He adhered to the motion which was put,
and he would divide the House -upon it.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and, the House
divided, when there appeared—
For the motion 5O
Against it
Majority against the motion — 187
LOAN SOCIETIES.
Mr. M. SUTTON obtained leaVe to bring in a Bill
to explain and continuo, until the Ist of August, 1843,
the Act to amend the laws relating to Loan Societies.
LIBRARY COMMITTEE.
• Sir R. INGLIS moved the re-appointment of the
Library Committee..
Mr. WILLIAMS commented on the needless expense'
in printing a number of Reports and documents which
were read by nobody, and were generally Sold.for waste
paper. He should wish to call the attention of the Hon.
Baronet to this sukect. He also wished to be established
an entire new system of appointing the Committees of
the House,
as a different plan was very much needed.
As an example of a better system, he would take the
plan adopted by the House of Representatives of- the
United States. There they appointed Committees at
the commencement
of the session, and there was no in-
stance of the same person being appointed on two Com-
mittees. In this House, if any Hon. Member wished for
an inquiry into any subject, he moved for a Conimittee,
and he takes care to place on it a majority of Members
entertaining his own views
of the question ; he selects
men of the best abilities, and the best conversant with
the subject on his own aide, but, topreserve an appearance
of impartiality,
,some men of opposite opinions were se-
lected, but they were generally taken from among those
who were likely to pay the least possible attention to the
subject. The consequence is, that the Committees had
not that weight and influence with the House which they
ought to have, as many of them were merely moved for
to gratify some crotchet of a particular Member, without
havit'e any practical object to carry out.
Sir R. INGLIS said that the House had concurred
without discussion in the course which he had proposed for
the last seven years: The objections of the Hon: Mem-
ber for Coventry did not apply to the present practice of
the House in respect to Committees. It used to -be the
practice to appoint the same Member upon several Com-
mittees ; as, for instance, his Right Hon. Friend the
First Lord of the Treasury, used to be appointed upon
every Committee ; for his services, however short the
time he could devote to each, were considered of the
highest value. But now no Member was appointed to
two Committees. There .used to be .sometimes forty
Members on a ComMittee, but lately the number of
Members on each Committee was not more than fifteen
or sixteen ; and on the Library Committee there was no
necessity for so many, as their functions were very few.
Yet it was necessary to re-appoint them every Session.
With respect to the second Committee, he could say that
he should have no objection whatever that the name of
any other Hon. Gentleman should bekubstituted for his.
As for the third Committee, that on printing, the Secre-
tary for the Treasury generally nominated the Members,
composing it, and would doubtless give the best expla-
nation respecting it. He (Sir R. Inglis) had no objec-
tion whatever to withdraw from this either ; but he pre-
ferred that some one else should state why he should be
on the Library Committee.

----- -
SUGAR MONOPOLY.
In comparing the price of Sugar produced in foreign
plantations with that of Sugar made..in the British West
Indies, it has been usual to take as a. basiS of calculation
their respective values in the Mineing4ane Market—that
is, after certain charges, such as freight, insurance,
dockage commissions for 14
been added to the prime cost of the Sugars. This mode
of comparison answers wel:enna:teignihentct)
and
demonstrate
excess of price the Sugar monopoly compels the British
sale, e. , have
what
to pay, over and above the foreign consumer, for an ar-
ticle of a similar quality, and in every respect of the
sane value, in the markets of Europe; but it fails
to show the actual per centage advantage the British
West India Planter enjoys over his foreign competitors;
the extent of this advantage should, however, be clearly
ascertained in order that the public may understand the
quantum of protectioniwhieh the contemplated alteration in
the Sugar duties will confer on British colonial interests.
For instance—Sugar raised in Porto Rico (superior in
quality to the bulk of Sugar imported from Demerera,
Berbice, and the Leeward.lslands), is offered in Mincing-
lane for 18s. per cwt., which price includes the charges
alluded to, while the Gazette quotes the average price
(the like charges also included) of Sugars imported from
the British "West Indies at 38s. per cwt., exhibiting an
excess of 20s. per cwt. in favour of the latter, or about
110 per cent. ; but if the charges which have been added
to the prices of these Sugars, be again deducted, the per
centage difference will very considerably exceed 110 s.:
per cent. Assuming frOm the proximity of the two
islands, Jamaica and Porto Rico, that the charges of
importation into Great Britain are of an equal amount,
and taking that amount from the British West Indian's
own statement to be Bs. 6d. per cwt., we proceed to de-
duct Bs. 6d. from the ex.duty price of both kinds of
Sugar, as above quoted; by which probess the real price to
the respective producers, before the Sugars are put on
hoard ship for Great Britain, will be ascertained.
Thus, from 18s., the price per cwt. of Porto Rico Sugar,
is to be deducted Bs. 6d., leaving 95.. 6d. ; and from 385.,
the price per cwt. of British Plantation Sugar, Bs. 6d.,
leaving 295. 6d., exhibiting a per centage difference in
favour of the British over the Porto Rico West Indian
planter of inure than 200 per cent ; the monopoly, there-
fore, confers, and has, from time immemorial, conferred
on the British three times the valve the foreign 'West
Indians obtain for their Sugar ; in other words, a planter
in Porto Rico will sell three hundred weight of Sugar
for the same amount of money which, his British compe-
titor in Jamaica obtains for one.

In apportioning the duties on Sugars from various
parts of the world, this view of the case cannot be too
thatbaeb
strongly urged on the attention of the Legislature, the
more especially as the West Indian Proprietors will not
fail to clamour loudly for what they will be pleased
to designate "protection," meaning, all the time, per-
mission, through the powers of an Act of Parliament, to
plunder the community at large. Protection ! indeed, on
what plea can the West Indians ask for protection ?
Their old story about the extra costs of free labour
havingn:i
llnotabnuonlivatigtoly down e
with
to cultivate their plantations by free than by slave labour.
Let these monopolists learn to protect themselves. Let
itth ies farpu cheaper for them
able
writers
them. if they wish to thrive, relinquish the luxuries en-
joyed through an extensive and ruinous system of ab--
senteeisin. Let them proceed, forthwith, to the West
Indies, reside on their estates, and superintend the work-
ing of them. While theyremaii.i in this country, apinn•
their betters, any pecuniary aid would be worse than
useless, for. it would, in fact, be taking 80 much money
from the industrious and deserving to encourage with it
the, indolent and careless.
February 8, 1842.

Dr. BOWRING complained of the very bad attend-
ance of members of the Committee on petitions last year.
The Committee on printing, however, was regularly at-
tended. He thought that every Member nominated to
the Committee on.petitions should give a pledge to attend,
if chosen, for the matters referred to it were of very
great importance.
Sir R. INGLIS said that when he was Chairman of
that Committee, he read every petition that was referred
to them by the House.
Mr. EWART bore testimony to the conscientious
manner in which the Right Hon. Baronet discharged his
duties. He (Mr. E.) thought the reduction of the num-
ber of Committees from 40 to 15 was a good, rather than
an evil, as it increased the responsibility of the Mem-
bers; and if the latter number were reduced to seven it
would be a still greater improvement, for the same reason.
No gentleman ought to be appointed a member of a
Committee who had not first promised to attend to the
duties of it, and he thought that no person ought to be a
member of two Committees at the same time.
On the motion of Sir R. INGLIS, the following Mem-
bers were then appointed:—Sir Robert Harry IngliS, Mr.
Chancellor of the Exchequer, Sir Robert Peel, Lord
John Russell, Mr. Baring, Mr. Williams Wynn, Mr.
Rutherfurd, Mr. Shaw, Lord Viscount Palmerston, Mr.

Feb. 7,
, a medical man, re.
__.---------
'S BENCH LAW INTELLIGENCE.
BRAY V. COURTBNEY,
This was an action brought by Dlr. Bray,
i
COURT OF QUEEN
the ; •
P antaf, who is a
grocer, to recover damages from the defendant
siding in Great Marlborough-street, for an assault.
Mr. Jarvis and Mr. Chadwick Jones conducted the case of the
plaintiff, and Mr. Thesiger appeared for the defendant.
It appeared from the evidence of plaintiff's witnesses that the.
defendant's mother was indebted to the plaintiff in the sum of 81.,
that the plaintiff had gone to defendant's house to ask for her
address ; that the defendant, who was at dinner with some friends,
was called out, and told the plaintiff that he knew nothing of his
mother's address, at the same time ordering him to leave the house,
which plaintiff was about to do, and was going to take his hat air a
form when defendant knocked plaintiff down, and turned him out
of the house, in doing which his hand was eut.
Mr. THESIGER, for the defendant, contended that no more via
fence had beets used than was necessary to turn 'the plaintiff out of
defendant's house, and that therefore the verdict of the Jury must
be for defendant, as he bad a perfect right to turn plaintiff out of
his house if he refused to go oti being desired so to do. It appeared
that defendant and his mother were not on friendl-
; terms. The
Learned Gentleman then read a letter from the plaintiff's attorney,
offering to compromise the action, if defendant would pay his mo-
ther's debt, pay plaintiff the sum of 21., and the attorney his costs.
This defendant refused to do, as he felt that the whole affair had
been greatly exaggerated.
C n '
Defendant's witnessed ouesei swore that rto—
gy never lima

;Mr. Bray. At all, but that Bray followed defendant to hiSdining-
roomiafter defendant had desired him to gd ; cti vrhish defendant
seized plaintiff by the collar, and swung him out of the docif. ft
was distinctly denied that defendant struck him.
Mr. JA RVIS replied.
Lord DENMAN summed up, and said if defendant had desired
plaintiff to leave the house, and he had refused to do so, he would
be justified in laying hands on him to do so ; but he would not be
justified in knocking him down.
Mr. JEavis submitted that the declaration charged plaintiff with
wounding defendant, and that had not been justified by the p!ea,
and therefore the verdict must be for the plaintiff, as plaintiffs
witnesses proved that plaintiff's hand was cut, consequently there
was a wound.

Mr. MESMER submitted to the Court that the declaration was
met by the general plea, not guilty.

Lord DCNMAN apprehended not. The other acts were specially
justified, and the wounding ought to have been justified also.
The Jury returned a verdict for the Plaintiff—Damages, 101.

COYLE V. DRADBURN.

This was an action of trover to recover the possession of a
deeuc:. en tin th, hands of the defendant.

Mr. CHAMBERS stated the plaintiff's case, who is a lady,
the widow of an officer in the Spanish Legion, killed in the
late civil war in that country. She had obtained from the
Spanish Government two certificates, one as a pension, and
the other for arrears of pay, amounting to 141/. 7s. 11d. She
entered into an arrangement with the defendant, who ad-
vanced her 351. upon the latter certificate. When the price
of the certificates afterwards rose, she applied to the deendant,
who informed her that he had sold the certificate, and that he
had her own authority for so doing, which the plaintiff denied.
The defendant was asked to show the authority upon which he
made the sale, which he refused. A tender of 351. with inte-
rest was then made t' the defendant, which he would not accept.
John Holloway, managing clerk to the plaintiff's attorney,
proved the demand of the certificate and the tender of the money.
Mr, Goraldo, a clerk to the Spanish Cummission, proved that
a certificate was granted to Mrs. Coyle for 1411. 7s. 11d., on
the 31st of December, 1839. Upon similar certificates, three
instalments had been paid. The whole was to be paid in six
instalments. _ _

The plaintiff's case having closed,
Mr. CURRY addressed the Court for the defendant, and
read a letter of the plaintiff to the defendant, desiring him to
do the best he could with the certificate.

Charles Black, an agent, proved that the value of Spanish
c-ri ificates w not more than from 20 to 30 per cent. in Fe-
bruary, 1840ebut they rose considerably higher after. Three
instalments had been paid, and the other three may be worth
from 60 to 70 per cent. The price rose after some discussion
which took place respecting Spanish securities in Parliament.
Dr. Barry proved that he bought Spanish certificates in
March, 1840, for 25 per cent. Did not know the value of
those instalments which remained unpaid. There was no
market for them at present. They were a mere " fancy ar-
ticle." He dealt considerably in Spanish certificates.
William Smith, a clerk to the defendant, proved that he was
authorised to sell certificates for him. Could not say if the
certificate in qyestion was among those he sold. Had a con-
versation with Mrs. Coyle, who expressed dissatisfaction at the
sale of her certificate. He did know where the certificate was
now.

The plaintiff's case having closed,
His LORDSHIP summed up, and directed the Jury to find for
the plaintiff, but to what amount it was for them to determine.
She was clearly entitled to the three instalments which were
paid, though there appeared no nzala fides on the part of the
defendant, he having paid the full price for the certificate at
the time he got it. It did not seem that the plaintiff's letter
was sufficient authority for him to sell it.
Verdict for the plaintiff 1221., minus the 351. originally paid
by the defendant.