The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-15 00:00:00

For the resolutions
Against the resolutions

268
46

Majority
The remaining resolutions, which are as follow, were
then severally put :
" 2. That every such petition not containing matter in
breach of the privileges of this Ilouse, and which, ac-
cording to the rules or usual practice of this douse can
be received, be brought to the table by the direction of
the Speaker, who shall not allow any debate, or any
Member to speak upon, or in relation to, such petition,
but it may be read by the Clerk at the table if required.
" 3. That if the petition relate to any matter or sub-
ject in respect of which there is any proceeding before
the House, or any notice given, it be referred to the Com-
mittee on Public Petitions without a question being put.
"4. That if the petition relate to any matter or sub-
ject which the Member presenting it is desirous of bring-
ing before the House, and if such Member shall state it

to be his intention to make a motion thereupon, 'insteac
of such petition being referred to the Committee on Pub,
lic Petitions,' such Member may give notice that he wil
make a motion on some subsequent day That the peti-
tion be printed with the Votes.'

"5. That, in the case of a petition complaining of some
present personal grievance, for which there may be an
urgent necessity for providing an immediate remedy. the
matter contained in such petition may be brought into
discussion on the presentation thereof.
" 6. That, 'subject to the above regulations,' petitions
against any resolution or Bill imposing duties for the
current service of the year, be henceforth received, and
the usage under which-the House has refused to enter-
tain such petitions, be discontinued."
On the fourth resolution being read, it was proposed
to omit the words "instead of such petition being re-
ferred to the Committee on Public Petitions."
On the sixth resolution being read, the following addi-
tion was proposed—" That all other such petitions, after
being ordered to lie on the table, be referred to the Com-
mittee on Public Petitions, without any question being
put."
On the motion of Mr. T. DUNCOMBE, the words
" subject to the above regulations," were struck out of the
sixth resolution, which was then agreed to.
On the seventh resolution, "That the said resolutions
be made Standing Orders of this House" being put,
Mr. AGLIONBY said, that this was the resolution
which he particularly oblected to. The first resolntion,
which should not have been entertained, was unneces-
sarily introduced by the Hon. Member for South Lanca-
shire. If it meant nothing why was it proposed, and if it
meant anything was it not to make more stringent the
rules at present in existence against debating the. peti-
tions of the people?—(Hear, hear.) If that was not
the object, why did they seek to turn the present rule
of the House on that subject into a Standing Order?
The present re olution had always been acted on, and
the Speaker had never had any trouble in enforcing the
regulation. The Ministry had been all but beaten on
the subject—the concession had been wrung from them
unwillingly; but they could not make a concession to pub-
lic opinion without at the tame time endeavouring to re-
strain popular rights. Had the concession been made
fairly by the light lion. Baronet it would have been
received with gratitude ; but now the people would
feel that in making the concession an endeavour had
been made to withhold all that possibly could be
withheld. It was taking an ungenerous advantage of
the House to act in such a manner. After the decision
of the House just now he would not press the matter to
a division; but if, as lie believed to be the case, there
were several Gentlemen who on the former division had
voted in the majority, but who objected to making the
resolution a Standing Order, if those Gentlemen wished
to divide against the resolution he (Mr. Aglionby) would
not shrink from goin'g to a division.
Mr. CURTEIS said he agreed in all which had fallen
from his lion. Friend, the' Member for Cockermouth,
and he begged to propose "That the said proposition
be made, and considered regulations of this House."
He thought all who had voted with thellon. Member for
Finsbury must support that proposal. •

The SPEAKER informed the Hon. Member that 'his
motion was • quite nugatory. The resolutions were
already in existence ; the object was to make the re.-
solutions Standing Orders.

Mr. WALLACE said he. had intended to support the
resolutions, but as the members both of tlit late Govern-
ment and the present one were combining to :re-
strict the presentation of petitions, he must decline to
do so.—(Oh, oh, from the Ministerial Benches.) The
object seemed to be to enable Hon. M/mbers on both
sides of the House to secure one particular time as the
dinner hour. He was extremely sorry to hear the
speech of the Noble Lord, the Member for Sunderland. If
the constituency of Sunderland were of that class,
which he believed them to be, he would be
taken to task in the proper place.—(Laughter.)
He could not say how it would be done, but if he were
one of the Noble Lord's constituents, he would be glad
to call him to account on the hustings for what he had
said that night. He had been accustomed to think that
the Tory party were moreinimical to the interests of the
people than their opponents, the Whigs, but he must
now alter his opinion. He would be much astonished
and deeply grieved if that Noble Person, in another place,
who hart taken an active part in advocating the liberties
of the people, were to get up in the House of Lords and
express such sentiments.
Mr. LAMBTON said that he rose to protest against
what had been said by the Hon. Member fin• Greenock,
with respect to the Noble Lord, the Member for Sunder-
land. The character of that Noble Lord, and the House
would agree with him, stood too high to be injured by
what had fallen from the Hon. Member. His attach-
ment to the right of petition was too well known in the'
north of England, and particularly in the borough of
Sunderland, to be affected by what had fallen from the
Hon. Member; and it was too hard for Hon. Members
to be attacked and taunted because they voted in a cer-
tain way, more particularly when they were absent.
Mr. WALLACE said that he was not aware of the
absence of the Noble Lord, and, if he was, he would not
have said what he had. But he now begged to repeat
the same words he had used.—(Laughter.)
Lord JOHN RUSSELL would only say, that if the
object of the regulations to prevent the discussion on
petitions was to allow official persons to go to dinner at
a particular time, when he was in office himself he was,
not able to go to dinner, and he believed the Right Hon.
Gentleman would not be able to go to dinner when he
pleased.—(Laugh ter.)
The question was then put and agreed to.
NOTICES OF 'MOTIONS.

Dr. BOWRING gave notice that he would, on to-
morrow, move for a return of the amount of the land-tax
in the county of Lancaster.
NEWSPAPER STAMPS.

Dr. BOWRING said that he would, on to-morrow,
move for a return of newspaper stamps; and the amount
of duty paid for advertisements for the last three months.

THE INCOME TAX.

Mr. WALLACE gave notice that he would, on to-
morrow, on the bringing up of the report on the income
tax, move that each proposition of the tariff should be
discussed, and that the opinion of the House should be
expressed before the income tax should be further pro-
ceeded with than a second reading. The Hon. Member
also gave notice that he would move that the income tai
should not be continued longer than a year, unless sanc-
tioned by the House.
MEMBERS' SEATS IN THE HOUSE.

Mr. WAKLEY said he wished to put a question to
the Right Hon. Gentleman in the Chair, relative to a
matter which he should not have brought before the
House, were it not that it was one which concerned the
convenience of Hon. Members generally. Last night
during the debate he had left his seat, for the purpose of
consulting the Sergeant-at-Arms upon a point of form,
and during his absence an Hon. Gentleman had taken
the seat, and abruptly refused to give it up on his (Mr.
Wakley's) return. He added that he had been in-
formed by several Hon. Members that he had left his
hat in the seat which he had been occupying. It was a
source. of great inconvenience, and his object in troubling
the House was to ascertain what was the usual practice
of the House, and whether there was a rule to govern
the conduct of Hon. Members in this respect. He un-
derstood that a seat might be secured by being present
at the time of prayers, and taking possession of
a seat. If this were the rule it ought to be
known, as it was an extremely inconvenient thing
to find a seat occupied which had been held for two
or three hours by an llon. Member. He took possession
of that seat for the purpose of catching, the Speaker's
eye, and he found that it was a very convenient seat for
that purpose, and there were many seats in that House
from which it was very difficult to do so.—(Laughter.)
lie was anxious to know what was the practice of that
House. The Hon. Member to whom he referred—(Cries
of " Don't name")—but he would name; it was the Hon.
Member for Leicester.

The SPEAKER said no Hon. Member was entitled
to claim a seat unless he was present at prayers. If any
Hon. Member fixed his name to a seat, and kept that seat,
it was generally given up to that Hon. Member. Those
Members who had not taken their seats at prayers, but
who took possession of them afterwards, and left the
House, leaving a hat or a book behind him, the general
Practice was, to allow the Hon. Member to occupy that
seat by courtesy, but there was no rule upon it.
Sir J. EASTHOPE said he was really very sorry,
but, he mold only assure the House that he did not re-
move the hat, and at the time he did believe it to be the
Hon. Member's hat.—(Laughter.) A Gallant Officer,
who was sitting without his hat, took up the hat from the
seat, and instead of his putting it on his head, he put it
under the seat. The Hon.' Member for Finsbury tllrgot
that the application was made in. a rather peremptory
tone ; but he could assure the House that he would have
rather given up the scat if he had thought the Hon.
Member had been entitled to it, but he was induced by
the peremptory tone iu which the demand was made, to
ask the Hon. Member whether he had taken the seat at
die time of prayers. He said, that he had not, and he
(Sir J. Easthope) did not withdraw.
_ _ _

Colonel ACtON moved for leave of absence to Mr.
Litton till the Ist olJune.

Lord GEANVILLE SOMERSET said he thought
the application ought not to be granted unless there
was some explanation given that some family circum-
stance required such a length of absence as two months.

After ;t few words fi'om Sir G. GREY and Sir
V. BLAKE,

Colonel ACTON was understood to say that illness
was the cause of the application.
Lord G. SOMERSET suggested that one month was
sufficient.

Leave of absence was then grant.xl to the lion. Member
for a month.

Mr. BORTH WICK presented a petition from Notting-
hill and its neighbourhood, complaining of the state of
the lighting of the roads in that neighbourhood.
Mr. AGLIONBY begged to put a question to the
Right lion. Baronet, the Secretary for the Home De-
partment, of which he had given notice : whether, in
1841, there had. been any executions for burglary at-
tended with personal violence, or whether the sentences
had been commuted to transportation?
Sir J. GRAHAM said, since the change in the law,
there had been, in 1838, three convictions for offences
accompanied with violence ; in 1839, one conviction ; in
1840, thirteen convictions ; all of which had been com-
muted to transportation for life. In 1841 the returns
had not been made ; there had been more than one con-
viction, but no execution had taken place.