The Sun.
London, England, 1842-06-07 00:00:00

IRISH PAUPERS.

The HoN. MEMBER also presented a petition from
several persons of Manchester, of Irish extraction, com-
plaining of the treatment of Irish paupers. It appeared
that, when the Irish in Manchester applied for parochial
relief they were passed back to Ireland ; and instances
had. occurred in a hich persons had been passed from
Manchester to Dublin, and from Dublin back again to
Manchester, no less than six times. _

Lord BARNARD presented u petition from certain
mFdical practitioners in Cork, complaining of that part
of the Irish Poor-law, which related to the employment
of physicians in workhouses.
Mr. WARD postponed his motion with respect to the
Ballot till the 21:it. _ _ _

Mr. WALLACE postponed his motion which stood
fur to-day till the 14th.
SUDBURY ELECTION.

Mr. BLACKSTONE gave notice of his intention, in
going into Committee on the Sudbury DisCranthisement
Bill that he should ino,e the extension of the franchise.
Sir C. NAPIER moved for certain returns connected
with the navy.—Ordered.
SHUTTING *OUT ON:DIVISIONS.

Sir R. INGLIS said, he rose in the discharge of a
painful duty,. respecting a matter which those Members
who were present at the last division last.' night, w hen
the House was in Committee, would.recollect—he meant
the difficulty experienced on the part of Honourable
Members desiring to go forth to the lobby in
consequence of an obstruction within that lobby itself.
So at least ' those who were in the House under-
stood by what nad occurred at the time.
When the Committee met and the division was told, and
when other business had proceeded to the extent of the
Chairman leaving the Chair, an Hon. Friend of his, the
, Hon. Member fur the county of Peebles, made a state-
-1 ment to which he would not now furthercall the Litton-
' tion of the House, than to state that it affi.,cted
• in the strongest manner the character and • the
discharge of the functions of an officer of
the Crown who was appointed to attend that House as
its Sergeant-at-Arms. They all knew that the Sergeant-
at-Arms, the servant of the Crown there, had no means
of making himself heard in his own defence, except by a
communication on paper to some individual. This
, Hon. Friend, Sir William Gossett, the Sergeant-at-
. Arms, had addressed to him (Sir E. Inglis) a letter,
which, with the permission of the !liouse, he would
I now read. It was dated, " House of Commons,
7th t June, • 1842,"- and was signed, " William
GoSsett." It began--" Sir,—A statement having been
made last night to the House, by Yr. Mackenzie, the
Member for Peubleshire, that I had forcibly thrust him
from the door, of the House as he was entering
for a division, and that I had adopted a rude
course towards him, I fear if I were to allow this
statement to remain uneontradieted, I should
suffer in the estimation of the House ; and I feel
it due to my character, and to- the situation I
have the honour of holding, to clear myself
from an imputation which, if correct, would render me
unworthy of the confidence of the House, in the present
discharge of a most delicate and important duty, by which
decisions of the utmost moment might he aK,cted.
I therefore take the opportunity to pray. the House
will be pleased to have the matter fully investigated,
when I pledge myself that Mr. Mackenzie was not enti-
tled to vote ; that I did not thrust him back ; that
after the doors of the House was locked he asked me
through the wicket to admit him and other Members
thrust out ; and that he acted contrary to the rules of
the House in nut withdrawing from the lobby
when ordered.—l have the' honour to be. Sir,
your Honourable servant, William Crossett." lie
had also received a letter from an Hon. Member, who
was one of these who were shut out, but as that Hon.
Member was present perhaps it would be better that lie
should himself state what had taken place.—(Hear.)
Mr. ATTWOOI) said he might be allowed to state
what he witnessed last night. He was one of those shut
out from the division. lie apprcached the door of the
House for the purpose of hearing the questien put ; the
door was locked %%heti he arrived at it, giving him in-
formation that the question was already put,
and therefore that it would nut . be competent
• for him to Vote upon a question • which hip
had not heard, Two Members near hiin him requested
the door•keeper to open the dOor, but he refused in a civil
manner. The Bon. Menibet fur YeOles asked him to
open the door again, and he again refUseiii but ss lie
Mr. Attwoud thought, in terms of strict Citilit)%
It was his opinion that Members should not think their
personal conventence of such importance as that the rules
of the House should be relaxed in consequenc& Hie
observed, however, that the Honourable Member
for Peebles, instead of retiring from the lobby, took
his seat there ; and on being requested to retire, refused
to do so in very decisive terms. He understood the
Hon. Member was afterwards removed, and he was sure
that the officer of the Crown had not exceeded his duty,
under the circumstances, in adopting that course. It was
ullsolutcly necessary that Gentlemen who had not heard
the question should not remain amongst those who had
given .heir voices, and were in the lobby for the pur-
pose of being counted ; if they were to remain it would
be impossible to conduct the divisions properly.
Mr. MACKENZIE said that lie had received a letter
front Sir William Gossett, informing him that he had
written on this matter to the Honourable Member for
the University of Oxford. About a quarter of an
hour ago, that Honourable Member told him (Mr.
Mackenzie) that he was in possession of that
letter, and intended to read it at five o!clock. lie
asked the Hon. Member to let him (Mr. APKenzie) see
the letter, but he regretted to say that he was nut
allowed to do so. He would retract no part of the
meat lie made last night ; he asserted then, and he would
do- so now, that he thought he was unjustly excluded
from voting, on the occasion referred. When he was on
the top step of the stairs the door was open, and he was
just in time act of entering when the door was pushed to.
With regard to his conduct afterwards in refusing to
leave the lobby, that was highly improper, and he ex-
pressed his regret at it. But he felt- that he was un-
justly excluded, and that he was not fairly dealt with. He
made no charge against the Sergeant-at-Arms. His
remarkS assumed rather the form of a question—a wish
to knew whether it was the rule that Members should be
excluded under the circumstance s, and lie ‘N as told
that he had no right to vote, unless he
was within the four walls of the House.
I Neither the Right Hon. Member for Oxford, nor the
lion. Member for• Whitehaven were more anxious to
observe the rules of the Reuse ; but the case was one.
of extreme peculiarity,, because it could be scarcely said
that he was either within the walls of the House or the
Lobby. 'I here was a dull debate on a dull subject—
everything to induce Members to retire, and they drew
their conclusions from the number of stranger: in the'
lobby. But if inconvenience was felt. in coining froth
the refreshment-room now, how much more would the
inconvenience- be felt in the New Houses, where long.
passages and 'galleries would have to be travelled by
• them.. He had expressed his regret for one part of his
conduct, but be appealed to his Hon. and Gallant Friend
it'wbttt a Aiwa- was.pot -true,

M. jor OtiD said, that lie wai pr.,,Kult with
his Hon. Friend, and he thought they st ere in rCeet f
time when they came to the door, which was closed. Bo
z.n, 'ilk% wes extremely hard, after hating remained
airing the: *hole fif the debate VI be excluded.—
(Laughter.) He could only sdj' dna in his opinion they
were unjustly excluded from the HotiSt,; find that his
Hon. Friend had truly stated what passed.
Sir J. GRAHAM hoped that the discussion wonld
not be carried any further. On the whale, he did not
think there was any contradiction to the statement of
the officer who discharged a - difficult duty. according
to the orders of the. House, and, at the same time,
with all the complaisance due to Honourable
Members. The order was that the -door should
be locked at the very moment when the question
was put, and when there was a press of Members,
this was very difficult to do with all the gentle-
ness that might he desired. He hoped what had
taken place would lead Members to attend more strictly
to the orders of the House, rnd at the same time sontirm
the Sergeant-at-Arms in
.the course he had usually
observed.
The contursation then dropped.
THE QUEEN'S LETTER.
In answer to questions from Mr. C. BALDWIN and
another Hort. 'MEMBER,
Sir J. GRAHAM said that the sums raised under
the Queen's letttr would be paid into the Bank
of England in the names of certain individuals
forming part of the Manufacturers Relief Committee; that
Committee was first formed in 1825, and had con-
tinued to discharge its duties at various rvala
up to last winter, when it administered relief in the ma-
nufacturing districts. At the request of the Government,
that Committee had consented to continue its benevolent
labours.
EMPLOYMENT OF CHILDREN IN MINES.
Lord ASHLEY rose, and was—
. [LEFT SPEAKING.]

POOR LAW COMMISSIONERS
ST. PAN CKAS.
A public meeting of the parishioners of this parish, con-
vened by order of the Vestry, was held last evenieg at the
Vestry-rooms, Gordon-street, Gordon-square, for the purpose,
as stated in the bills, of considering the Bill now in Parliament
for enabling the Poor-law Commissioners to abolish the paro-
chial Auditors of Accounts, and to unite this parish with other
parishes or unions for various purposes over which the Vestry
and Directors of the Poor had now the control ; also for ren-
dering in-door relief compulsory in cases hitherto at the discre-
tion of the " Board."
The meeting was convened for seven o'clock, but at that
hour the room was but 1 ery partially filled; by eight o'clock
there were a few more present, when on the motion •of Mr.
Douglas, Mr. Cooper, surgeon, was voted to the chair ; the
room, however, was by no means full.
The CHAIRMAN stated the Vestry to be of opinion that the
feeling of the parish should he taken on the matter which had
called them together, and that the parishioners should know
how far their interests would be affected by the measure
they had met to consider, which was brought in by a
Tory Government, who had promised so far to
amend the Poor-law as to render its protrisions so mild
as not to {tress too heavily- upon the poor. Sir Charles Napier
and Sir Benjamin Hall had been istivited to attend; it le p-
pened, however, that in the House that night there was to be
an important' de'eate in coneeeuence 'of Lord John Russell's
Bill tor the prevention of bribery at elections.—( A laugh.)
Letters from Sir Benjamin Hall and Sir Charles Napier
were read, both expressive of their concurrence in the sen-
timents which they presumed would pervade the meeting, and
regreting that their duties in Parliament pi everited their
attentlitig.—( A voice—" Let's adjourn till the Members do
attend, fur there's a very seanty lot here to-night.")
The CHAIRMAN continued—Ti e nill that was now in rar-
rament would take out of the parish altogether the power
which they now Lad of controlling their own funds. ' The Poor-
law Commissioners were to have the power of auditing the
accounts, and of cowrie the auditor would be a creature of the
Poor-law Commissioners, the result of which would be that the
directors of the poor would no longer' have the power of
granting out-door : relief.—( Hear, hear.) But that was not
all; they also said that they would take away all the children
from the workhouse, and would buil:i a boarding-schme some
ten miles from the parish, educate and board th:m at their
own discretion, and lor that would charge the parishioners not
more than one-fifth of the parish rate.— ( Hear, hear.) lie
thought these encroachments on their rights were ample
grounds for calling the meeting together, and in conclusion he
trusted that a fair and impartial hearing would be vouchsafed
to every speaker.
Mr. BARN ss rose to move " That this meeting views with
disappointment end disgust, the continual demands of the Poor-
law Commissioners for increased powers, and the readiness of
Government to advance their views, notwithstanding the
great effect which popular hostility to the present. Poor-laws
undoubtedly exercised in ousting the late Ministry from office,"
but he spoke in so low a tone of voice as to render his remarks
almost inaudible at the reporters' table. He was understood
to say, that the Poor-law Amendment Act was a most ineffi-
cient and uncalled-for measure ; it nut only materially affected
the comforts of the people, but it had considerably increased
the expenses of the parish. The union of a number of pa-
rishes was. calculated to increase the expense borne by the
perishioceis ; and
,in proof of this he might state as an ex-
ample; that. he himself hail some property situated in different
pat ishes, for which he paid a rate of 3s. 6d. in the pciund under
the old system; he new paid and, r the present system for some of
the property ss. for some ss. lid., anti for some 6s.—( Her. )
Mr. liAnuisos btiefly seconded the resolution, which he
hoped would be c stried unanimously.
Sir. KYEZOK regretted the absence of so many gentlemen
of the Veerry, who were actuated in all their movements by a
desire only for their own interests. He thought it a scandal to
the parish that the meetieg was so poorly attended.
'I he resolution was then carried unanimously_
Mr. NrcnoLsort, in a lengthened speech, which we regret
our limits will not allow us :o publish, moved die second reso-
lution, which was as follows :—" That one of the pretences
under vvhich the new Poor-laws were introduced to the omit-
try, was the establishment of simplicity and iiniformil in the
mode of administering relief by parishes at Loge; but t as pre-
sent Bill, giving power to the Poor-law Commissioners to
unite parishes with one union, for one purpose, with soother
union for another purpose, and so on with a variety of unions
for a variety of purposes, seeks to introduce intricacy and arti-
ficial arrangement into a subject su-ceptible of the greatest
simplicity, merely to confuse and delude the popular mind, or,
by the mani:old operations which it will enable the Poor-law
Commissioners to cudertake, afford a pretext for perpetual
cunt inuance."
Sir. ProsetArr, in a few words, seconded the resolution,
Which was carried unanimously.
Mr. DOUGLAS, in seconding the following resolution
" That this meeting views with indignation the attempt of the
Government to procure the sanction of Parliament to the re peal
of so much of the Act commonly called Hobhouse's Act (fur
the obtainment of which the nem ropolitan parishes struggled
long and manfully), as enables the rate-pa3ers to appoint
_au-
ditors of accounts, by which appointment the control of the
Monies, Wriest ed by themselves, is placed in their own hands,
and the vexatious abuse of a power,so important rendered im-
r possible"—said he need scarcely call to their mind the difficulties
which they had to encounter in introducing Hobhouse's Act
irto the parish. He slearld, however, tell them that, 'pre-
. vious to the - ititroductiun of the new system, by which
they elected their own representatives, the rate was Is. 10d. in
the i ounti—it was now only Is. Id.—( Hear, hear.) . Neither
need be tell teem of the difficulty which they had to exlude the
Pour-law Commissioners from the parish : the rate-payers
however, aided by the Parochial Committee. manfully re.
sisted their entrance, and resisted it effect ualiy. —(Hear, hear. )
He hoped that the zeal which actuated the rate-payers then—
' six years ago— wsuld be exercised by them now.—(Hear,
hear.) What could not be forced upon them then they we-re
going now to impose upon them covertly. In prod of this
i statement the speaker then referred to a variety of clauses in
the Bill, hem which it appeared, that noter ehstanding Sir .1.
Graham's statement in the liouse of Commons that it was not
1 1 his intention to interfere with Local Acts already in force, it
I would be quite competent, if the Nil were passed, to impose a
' new aid uecaileti-for code of re gulations upon the parish. Ile
would now ask them whether they thought it scouter be desirable
to have die Pm -law Commissioneis called into the' parish to
seperrenend their conduct of the poor and the aueitieg of their
accounts ? (No, no.) If the room had teen crammed to
excess he was sure that " No" would be sounded by every one
, I in the room. They ought to use their exertions to stir up
I their fellow rate-payers, and then he was sure that room would
I not be capable of holding the numbers that would assemble
there for the determined purpose of resisting the introduction
of the Poor law Commissioners into the parish.—( Cheers.)
Sir. liAnLev seconded the resolution wahout an observa-
tion, and it was carried nemine contradicente.
Sir. sanest proposed the next resolution :—" That by the
, mode of audit proposed by the Poor-law bill, parishes. with
Local Acts would be placed entirety in the hands of the Poor-
law Commissioners—subjected to re ntinuel annoyance and petty
vexatious, arising horn their ignorance of the constitution of
i the bodies established by such Acts, being Quasi corporations
Ifor important purposes, beside your relief; and, when popu-
! lady elected, not standing in need of the proposed control of
the Poor-law Commiseioners, which, in their casts, would be
misplaced and useless for any good purl use." They were very
I apt to become ;pathetic about Mines, after a time ; otherwise
I there would, nu doubt, have been a more numerous attericance
than he saw present. Hobhouse's Act had been carried, tome
vests ago, by a majority of more than two-thirds of the Vestry ;
and, by that Act, they secured to themselves the rlght of elect-
their own Vestry, and a body of men to see that the Vestry
did their s:I.V.;'• By the proposed bill, however, though the
ve.Lteir Vestry would still remain with them, as
power of eleming
• et accounts would rest with the Poor-
the electing of so auditor ...-
opposed
,would be rendered no
la* Commissioners, their vestre.7.'en
1.
prevent the reerr-law Commissioners,
better than puppets,
therefore, api•ointing an auditor of accounts, the.Y,
this Bill. To prevent tne Poor-law Commissioned-et° du-
this
their children, was another reason why tiiey-.2P-
posed the Bill. He hoped they would use their exertions
to watch narrowly the passing of that Bill which was geing
so quietly through the House. The parishes of St. James
and elarylebone were on the alert, and would nut allow it to
pass quietly. In St. James, where he had the honour to be
a vestryman, and where Hobhouse's Act was in force, they
now spent from 20,h00/. to 25,0001. per annum ; formerly
they spent 45,0001. The Poor-rates were Is. 2d. in the pound
pi evious to the introduction of liobhouse's Act; they were
now 4d.—( Cheers. )
Mr. At his seconded the resolution. He thought the only
legitimate course for them to adept on the present occasion was
to petition Parliament, and that was the plan he begged to
propose fur their adoption.
Mr. WALL, a Chartist, rose to speak to the resolutien amidst
a good deal of confusion, which was ultimately quieted by the
Chairman. Though he was one of the people, and highly
deprecated the system at present pursued by the select few in
the parish, who constituted the Vestry, he would join with that
meeting heart and hand to oppose the introduction of the Poor-
lew Commissioners. This was not a party question. All
should unite to oppose the Bill itself as a vs hole—tot. this clause
or that clause, but the whole of the Bill, as one calculated to
rend from the people piecemeal the whole of their rights and
privileges.—( Loud cheers.)
The resolution vas then put and carried unanimously.
Sir. DOUGLAS next moved that a petition, founded upon the
oregoine' resolutions, should be signed by the Chairman, on
behalf of the meeting ; and that Sir Benjamin hall and Sir
Charles Napier be requested to present it to Parliament.
The Cu-enema N seconded the motion in an appropriate and
pointed speech. He was glad to et e that the meeting was now
nearly full; and lie rejoiced at this, inasmuch as he knew that
the parish of St. Pancras was looked up to by the country d.s-
tricts as the champions of the old Pout-law.
The resolution was carried with cheers.
A vote of thanks was then carried with acclamation to the
Chairman, which, having been briefly aeknowleeged, the meet-
ing quietly separated.

Sheep-stealing has not yet received. any check in
the Fort st of Dean. On Monday week, five skins were found
in a stone quarry, in Bieslade. Three of them were evidently
those of sheep that had been killed in the past night, and the
other two appeared to have lain a fortnight where they were
discovered.—Monmouthshirc Merlin.
JUVENILE PRECOCITY.--",Boy, what is y OUT
name ?" Robert, " Yes, that is yOUr Chriitiall Lame,
but what is your other hauler "Bob, Sir." . _

. I

DI PEI:IAL PAR I. IMUENT.

I
Ap.
I HOUSE OF COMMONS, Jure 6. , ~
'the
NEWCASTLE-UNDER-LYME ELECTIA2:
I Mr. O'CONie, 1.,i,L {iii continuation) pewee
i
I say—What Would be thought of the morality
t'steP,.'
1 country if the }Those did spot take some decided
very
lagainst practices like this ? Bribery was ills" . tbs.,
common. These witnesses told the Committee that
were to get what was going. William Fellowsts gave a des bee
tion of a articular species of bribery practised in
rough. It appeared that there were constently,rentql".4 it
with flags in the borough ; the flagsbearers were paide;Sess,
appeared that they were accompanied by burgesses as r.u''''", it!
Every burgess who accompanied a flag received 3/. "eie,...
money. andss. as fees. Bands were hired with the mane :see
So common was bribery in this borough—to such a system Pe qv
been brought—that there were actually bribery agencies el. ite
blished in the borough. 'there were established agents
_.4
bribery. who received a regular commission. The bribe *Rss
usually 31. a-head, ; the voter received 21, lids., arid the eg ,;,
received 2s. as his commission. There ,was maiketieg tpurdt2ts.
there were dinnerings regularly paid fur by the el' no.
There was a regular system of bribery and of bribery age ere
He would now call the-attention of the House to the mg"
this
00. ,
voter
of Thomas Dilmore, at p. 26. This man's son way a be•
fel' the borough. Dilmore was asked, did you. bear Iht; it?
bevy oath enSt to your son? Yes. Did you hear him take be,
Yes, 'and mine more besides. Now that* son ha ',l,
fore been :proved to be bribed. The Leber,
." ,
it. He suffwed his min to take the oath without int,- rferstigu 8
prevent it. He would ask if such a case had ever befire,CZ.,,
under the cognisance of a civilised assembly ? . A. 'ear',
knows that his son has been guilty of the crime* of brily;e,
he sees him about to consummate it by the crime of Veljuyijes
Does he attempt to interfere to prevent him? NO • i et
he express any regret that he has been the suborner %so
his s:•n's perjury ? No Ihe justifies it. Was it fit that 41,
things should be? Was this the scene that moral Englalber
hibited ? This was the source from wieich the purity of
cost
legislation originat, ti. They were sent ',here by the ects
drunkards, bribers, and perjurers in the woe.hd. Such_sest
having been established in evidence, he thougist they ''i't'.7,ot
not to issue the mit without further inquiry. ' Was spiel
worth while, when they found such practices aceomf;oo
with bribery and perjury, to pause until a full investigAt'?issii
made, end ssme method sought for the purpose of get;s, a.
of these objectionable practices ?—( Hear. )
The question having been put,
Mr. LIDDELL said he h fed the Hone would not btrisilln:
duced by three portions of the evidence produced by the Pete.
Member for Cork, with allehe ingenuity of a lawyers letbee
sent to the suspension of the writ. He was confident eit,
was no case whatever made out for the suspension of therm
and as in the opinion of the Right Hun. Baronet (Sir B. dsy
every .case was, to be decided on its own merits, he trusle,iee
Hon. Gentleman would not persist in asking for its susec'Lot
The Committee gave no recommendation for the suspeo,l° tile
the writ. It was true objectionable practices prevailed '11:,01,,
borough.—( Hear, hear.) But if such practices were 'I It
he hoped the House would suggest some remedy for thea''st
it was an evil that poor voters took money it was a stillgrethe
evil that men of education were found to go down t"
tees
boroughs with large sums of money in order to induce cos
poor electors to give their votes, not according to .theiti'd
science, but for a sum of money.--( Hear, hear.) He teee
the House of Commons would give a decided opinion opt, ot
practices. But in a large constituency of 1,000 voters, e 0
no reason why the whole should be punished, because $Ol
yielded to the temptation held out to them. The fleal'iti
Learned Gentleman the Alt•mber for Cork, would Ma isto
appear that the amount of treating was more' esteneiveiet
was really the fact, and if the petition depended on the aselo
of treating alone, the Committee would not be jut
avei ling the election. . The amount of the bills for treatie'd
osly 50/., or a little more, and that was riot an extraoy
sum considering the time over which it extended, narnelPeit
weeks.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped he had said enough trol
duce to House to believe that there had been consieepet
exaggerations in the charges which had been made, $
negative the motion of the lion. Member for 1111111trU5e. V
. Mr. C. BULLER said is seemed to be assumed by ot"
Gentlemen opposite, that the i-suing of the writ would ei it
attended with any harm. Now the plain statement eti.:'
case was, that the bribe was paid to the electors, afteet,
election, in order to avoid the usual consequences.. Ther"e:
here heaps upon heaps 01 evidence of money having bse;se,
on the part of the Honourable Member, under the ty
market money. ' The Hon. Member having read iever';Cs,
tions of the evidence taken before the Committee, olesef./sj
the character pf the borough was notorious for scande
continued bribery, aed the whole evidence showed eltat
witness that had been examined had been ej
under the semblance of flag and colour sr,
He must say that he differed from
,many gentlemen 'OP'
(the Opposition) side, of the House, with respect to thrill'
of disfranchising b "roughs. He thought ,ti ats a • great -
their legislation bad been objectionable. They should
peed the writ without haying some guod result—some
remedy in view. But, in the present instance, they*
great object in view. Bribery prevailed in this borouglj
extent tba' was disgusting, anti his Noble Friene (Low
Russell) meant to move for leave is introduce a
end to such an evil ; and they should not, W
adopting measures to stop the evil generally, di
would countenance the evil in particular instances,
Mr. O'CONNELL said that the Hon. Alernbe
stood him (Mr. O'Connell ) to have confined his ol
the evidence of the two cases he had adduced. H
had stated that the directions respecting the '
general during the canvass.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that in
amendment of the Hon. Member for Montruse
mean to say that he approved of the practice if
money, which appeared to have prevailed in I
Newcastle; and he was ready to admit that some
practices had taken place in the boroughs at the
but that was no sufficient ground te justify the H
recourse to extreme measures ; inasmuch, as the
nn elections at which some proceedings of an
character had not occurred. He should observe'
had not in any case a constitutional right to
merely for the purpose of punishing a bora'
wished to disfranchise a borough, it should be ,
of the whole. Legislature, and wi h the consent
He apprehended that the Commons would not
even t unp eerily, unless well a view of gtvirg ti
a Bill for its pi imanent suspension. It did we
appear to him that any case of general bribery
of Newcrstle, whirls could justity such a step as
made sut. No witness before the Newcastle C
refused to answer a question ; there had been
and with regard to heating it was not considere,
cient waved to unseat the Members, much lei
suspension of the writ. The Committee had
eases of bribery, but they had made no report at
borough, and had not made any recommendatiot
should be suspended.. lie did not consider th
grounds for proceeding against the borough of N
objected to suspending the writ, on constitutiont
the House of Commons had no power of suspeni
purpose of punishing the borough.
Mr. BERNAL agreed that there was no
snpension to be built on the drunkenness prey;
easfe. But they came to this point of
1 doctrine, and here he thoueht that his Hi
Learned Friend took tee narrow a view of it. '7
earnest, the House must suspend writs when th,
I tion to do so was thrust under their noses. W:.
Committees the power of sitting and reportinK;
It was proved that the objectionable practice ot gi"""re',
money had prevailed at the last election, and also at sled`
one. He would not now enter into the question whets,(',
money was or was riot bribery; but he must say. th3tteel
were rot sufficient grounds in this case for suspending ~
it would be vain even to attempt to suppress timbers'. eist:
Mr. WYNN said, he could not retrain from exereSels'i
, opinion that, in this case, there were abundant gelbsOt
I
further inquiry. For the second time, there had benefit e
tice of head money.—( Hear; hear.) But it would s bit
if money were taken before the elec or voted, it Wes.estt,?).,
but, if it was taken afterwards, it was only a grat,,,b ~ier,!.
1 (Laughter, and Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. fide
then went on stating the evidence that was taken; cotes
Committee, and said that there was sufficient to ,i' btrfi
House, in his opinion, to suspend the writ. The It Art
I Gentleman concluded by stating that he would sul'l
motion tor inquiry. 104 rf,
Sir R. PEEL' had stated, in the discussions that - ne,d
ous'y taken settee, that he found it difficult to adopt 'lice e
elide capabie of general application. He must, t bereft:, of •
ot the merits of each particular case, upon a reyie eilfti
special circumstances of that case. In .endeavouringeeq
that course, it had been supposed that he bad.l,lo
Meting, decisions; and as a proof of that the cases-
eses'f
and S uthampton had been referred to. In the' °O4-er
wick he had come to the conclusion that sufficient gr tb '
not been brought forward for suspending the writrc
that such a course ought not to be pursued unless i'le if
by sti Aug circumstances ; and the Noble Lord oiletes:;i:i
that
ts
case.lnnt thatvv itthherreesupeercet noto gsr,oiuuntidlasmfuFrtosou,si
iefndhisogOioir i
foo
I decide upon the Rei ort of the Committee alone, ee,
have voted for the issuirg of the writ ; but when Nebstee,,
I wards of 300 of the electors of that plate, affit ming ! ,r,si',
sive bribery had prevailed there, and that if an inqu'rtio fy
lowed they should be able to prove it, he felt bou'"ltserje'
the suspension of the writ. Looking, however, at ee t",r.
case, he did not think there was so strong a gro° 04.'01
pending the writ as there was even in the Ipswieht O; hri,
aemitted that the mode of distributing money um ' , is-It*i
I of m ttket money, was 'nest objectionable ; as it 055 flisP,
1 prevalence of the custom certainly did in some riegee4ll
the charge of bribery. Ott the whole, he saw Ito ',,, gl j
disfranchising the borough; and he should thertl.
''
O.
Or
vote for the issuing of the writ. votet,
sl
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he should 1 fey ,
the immediate issuing of the writ, and he shout(i 1',41
duty to do so for the reasons which the Hon. B"irrs -Vi
Gentleman the Solicitor-General had assigned Or esistel 0
contrary course. The Hon. and Learned Getit , ~.0 vi);1,
thatsit
uttratiit:edihye chthatoon;ei
hoped he
considered
s (a doubtfulLa o
bribery;r(Lord
s j.
Russell) "han:llhehwreohuheld:dds:ti<°l'kt)::s's4l::titilf:
the Bill which he was about to introduce. I°e
h*: ita, sl"
ever, po doubt but the practice was illegal, and I;teeerett4
of see... House, as much as possible, te• diseot", it "se it
if that were the case, it did not appear to him tbig.eugh for of
advisable to issue'llses writ at present for rite b° oy, to4reo
castle-under-Lyme,
bee,,use the electors wool(' t, i!serise
was doubtful whether heitiesmoney partook of
bribery, they might receive it wiShout any dartgr.:'a 'II V
it, re fieivetc
the censure of the House ; and the practice wool $l.
bility, prevail at the new election, as it had preew
elections, ...ere":
The House then divided, when the numbers r 1,1.;
For the motion ........ - .................... 97.,
Against it ....................................
..., 4°
rte
Majority for issuiug the writ ... ... i . b be,
On our re-admission to the gallery we fount a o"ciiisliitte,
Mr. HUAIE speaking. He would sugge' eee, 'ilieste,ree
mode of proceeding than the present see- sa•Tst cat;, epreere
to repeal all the lass against bribery, and to eta, Pees ;'ster
down to their coristitueuts and buy all they eimla`ite to:"lio,:ere
to him an attempt to blind the people of t:, g`tees 0;1,,
of 11
was a disposition to stop bribery, when he now
~. es is
ot the Crown, leading the opposition to inte:uld be
1 1,
fore, regretted that the time of the House se ell
the
occupied. that
The SPEAKER then put the question
to
issued, which was agreed to. johle jeste io
Lord JOHN BR
IRBUESRSYE RUSSELL thenELE Cr
e 01°ve 1311 9'o
bring in a Bill for the better discovFrY;ient. lan e'
the Election of Members of Pad° briherY. s ts!
that the Hone had considered that . sour ,rte sst
end ete‘ en le
evil se Isich poisoned the fountains . sre rtes,„,e
presentation. lie knew that ingertirMcssaie oeti Teri,:_i
beets brought forward showing that as they.. (s'e cetqcters_tet:,
ELECTION aye
of forti.b:rai„,:i
corrupt practices—as they could not estr_ l7the elferit
.rogi.,
Bence and complete purity in the exere: e.2'te pre
__`,l tbideeeet',l
chise—it was useless to attempt by Tit) bearitpt ,or.l:t
bribery. But until he (Lord John Rusie.iber ," tho Yes l'ss
ment supported by some considerable !nver et9rte„te,,igti
he should consider that in this, as in sallb, punt% (Vol bed
endeavour byinquiry, by penalty, arm L'Atilo" It Poo otTie
an end to that which the law could teae:ti
he to (10 elf /t'' e's.ct
riot be able to do all that they w is-- . tberitY' tesh I tee- s
reat al pu ith tee-
said with respect to bribery by ag , is,e to ee e , ;lg
.ei tne ,ev tt ,es
me the bribery I will show st , e eesfese te se' i
(Lord J. Russell) believed that to 0
_t:l be 0 t 00
to the penalties ot bribery—tbere
_eau.. gig Ile
committed with respect to which tper* :.- ,

3d (Lao -tf
L 11,11 to
.I°,
while thefib
lo that
us. od.
fiber baths
obseriaot.
He ()Jr.,l
liquor ha ,
n opPoatle
'Sc, he, "vii
pay:ng 00,
tho
tie ebierlllo
e last eleoo
Hoose''i,"
Sere pere
object'Of,
a that the, os;
suspetwij,
ough. aieb'
done bY
t of t
h o
igo
stypen o
do/time to
it, he ,
in the
ad
ti t .b
Connoitte2
no coU 50;
.od even
;ust'
?ss to j
d revottcst
1
,t aitari,e,
that I it
3n ere
there
Neweaitic,'o;,
nal ittotlflof,
tiding it
gr9nn iti
vaihng •
A
If
-yretien tj:e