The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-20 00:00:00

an extract from a speech which rruit have gratified the 111$1;
lion. Bat onet, if it did not parity all those around him. k...h
laugh.) [The lion. Gentleman then read, amidst Mu'_,
cheering and laughter, an extract from the speech
Conolly.3 A passage in that speech reminded him sit] Of
strange association of bed-fellows—( Great laughter)--snh"elp
lively crawlers.—(Great laughter.) I e could mitto„,fiess
thinking that the honourable and Learned Member fa
an old statement,
" Who drives fat oxen should himself be fat." s, e,
—( Laughter.) The Hon. and Learned Member (Mr. Ws,
buck) was perfectly justified in complaining of the absence u'
o f Co! e.nbc
Irish Members; but he ( Sergeant Murphy; could noshed eethe
the reasons which he gave fur that absence. He . his
Hon. and Learned Gentleman had been more guarded
tone and language. True it was, the Hon. and Learned•eM fler
ber excluded from his censure the lion. and Learned' rod
for Cork, but there was one lion. Member to whom Pelenad
allusion was made. Now every lion. Member present are
recollect. the course lately adopted by Mr. Sniiih O'Brien;
ifes
the admirable spreeh he made on the subject of thieer,sl
neral state of Ireland—a speech which elicited °a h hest
arobation, and had raised the Hon. Member to the highest
a of argumentative orators in that House.—( Hear. beras
lie ej
had no doubt the observations of the Hon. and Les
ere
Member would be echoed back from leeland, not as obsger.
o,
tiens sooting from Protestants or Orangemen, but from trbst
tleman whose career might be nisi, in some degree, to Hon.
of the Irish people. He regretted, too, that when the. _ did
and Learned Member talked of conciliation to America' "oft
nut recollect that it was so near akin to Canada. Pester-
therefore, extremely sorry when he heard him make ws.:rselo
merit. With regard to the motion of his Hcin°;lnsoo
and Learned Friend, what was his object ? He callee_hre, e
them to tax realised property in !I-eland. But
."_"0,
was he to find it ? Where would he find a landlord
oaring
not struggling with mortgages? Ireland had been lab° rasa
under many ills; it had been pictured by the Hon. and Leina,eJ
Member as a poor, impoverished country, and yet he ITeelistel
to burden it with an income-tax. The resources Of._,nsyl•
own
were not yet able to relieve the people from their se.`o,oael
and any change in their condition, it was too well knhat
bf
be detived, not from the imposition of an income-tax, ; this
the introduction of real and substantial capital fe" ifhis
country. He asked his Hon. and Learned Friend, thenn' Sei
motion was politic at the present moment? His '4lO
bs
Learned Friend had declared that ro increase ong" • O
i
made to the number of Irish Members, because Hp
lot
people did possess were absent from their posts. ',al to
answer to that argument was, that he was there to fulfil
duties of a representative. He would not enter further 'th,
measure, but conclude with a simple protest against
policy cf bringing forward such a motion.— ( Cheers.), ratite(
Colonel RAWDON denied that any Irish Member, in
on that occasion, would be actuated by any motives 01 etoela
ness, nor did he believe Hon. Gentlemen ePlin'ite tr
support the motion upon the selfish principle that it 01%1.0
lieve them from some portion of the burden itnr",,e4iellf,
income-tax.—( Hear, hear.) He thought it was e,lesthe Ore;
unwise to introduce the income-tax into Ireland ran • tie;
moments of her prosperity. It would press severdiettel•
small tradesmen and merchants, and might revive tha, r 17110;
which his Hon. and Learned Friend, the Member °bsaisho,
garcon, had sanguinely hoped was hourly being her
from this hitherto unfortunate country. 'Le fiol',:s
he should not be felt to be intruding on sod [or
but he could not but feel a great, objection to this tax! befel,
it was consequently his duty to his constituents to briegoolsi
the House one instance from history, which was dee° 111,
ntrY•
significance at the present moment to the coo .0,
alluded to the conduct of this country towards A.„Merile to linh:
begged to call the attention of Gentlemen of that lien-steo '
tr Iv .
consequences of that conduct, before they gave tnse e,s, t
the amendment of the lion. Member for Bath. it
posed by the country Gentlemen who were Membeesid°ollPerj,
House,' in the middle of last century, that if they eo,jeifb„j
taxes on America that their own burdens would be °ld 00,P,a
The necessary means were taken to impose those hue aestsiu.
what was the consequence? A few short words were 5 asie,fe
in the speech from the Throne, and in 1764 certain. l't
duties were imposed on the North American Colonies iss;,
consequences very soon appeared. In 1765 a few nwolco
were contained in the royal speech—" The attention referee
merit was di:ected to matters of importance havie,grbe'rev;til
to America; disturbances had arisen there." e ride so
gentlemeniwere astonished. They stood aghast. "iPe
saw that they were in the wrong. They saw tbfeno,
to,
may see now, that such conduct was inworthe
trusted that there would be no repetition of this dor
vs-this
wards America. The motion before the House ^noeieb
to
tion was a most important one, and if the princiele,,is esserst
been used towards America were to be applied in Governt"'oo4
Ireland, he felt assured that it would render the ,tele,Ao,
of that country most difficult, if not altogether itel'''ihst 'ers'
the success of this motion would at once bring °n, dists,oo,
culty. They might defer the day of separation, buro'r A ses'iss
ration was inevitable. They 'might adjourn it 'ye faj
perhaps to a distant season, but to adjourn it fore
possible. • sia °rev
Mr. CURTEIS would make but a few observatlonm s to
sing the proposition of the Hon. Member for Bath ets.tlis.tie
ber of the Commission for the property and ines° 01%00
felt that it was a tax which materially affected tnewseli:'tiso
turing and commercial interests of the country• butcotePsstrl
so the landed interests, and his experience on that s, coder,
led him to oppose the extension of this tax to Irelanud.„....(PoitS
which materiaPy depended on the produce of its lanneeted
hear.) If the gentlemen who were con a t 1001
the landed interests of the country did , ° held
against this tax—for, to the tax altoget.ar,
00a,s
opposed—he would ask them how their constitesenre.sed ‘l,f, io
sati•fied with their conduct ?He considered hisnseb e t
by his duty to those who sent him there, to oPP°ees in bore
every way. He could not see how the lower eta that
could be benefited by the extensity& of this tat to tetistolee for
For if the gentlemen of landed interest were to be,° the 0ero!;
this tax, it would be impossible for them to aPP'efo; 011001
they possessed for the improvement of their estatni, it roll
if left free to make such application of their Ws"; IhAt otozr
be doing much more good to the country than Ostia iefett
possibly arise from the imposition of a property dint
tax. He believed that the major part of the lan Ist'
he would not say the whole of the landed intert WOO'
major part of those who formed it—were opposed ;et, si
They complained, and justly complained, that the n the'otif
Baronet the First Lord of the Treasury had give- r 0 thll
s
relief, while he left the whole burden of this " 'sirs'
shoulders. He must he considered disinterest' so voil
matter, for he came forward unsupported bid lieviel
section on either side of the House ; an
she 04
not, rely on the votes of Hon. Members on the billed P 5 it
him ; but notwithstanding this, much as he dis'i • nos'
the House to trouble, he should feel it his duty ji,co';‘,oo'
%clue n the main question of the continuance or th,° Mof
the
ance of the property and income-tax came before
tiiinport
retestti
solation he had, that he fully relied on the shjt, be rt,sc't
speeches of those members for Ireland who fsee°oo
and lie hoped that their votes would be given in,",ts Ate tit'r,
they might possibly get rid of the nuisance of days,
altogether. At all events, he should feel it h!'_,,sss
the sense of the House, whenever the main questioe s tie
before it. f o'oo'
0 eo
Mr. BLACKSTONE would not occupy n' he a too ,
of the House at that late hour of the night ; boon the ,a re
pelled to say a few words before he gave his vot.eht be id
of the Hon. Member for Bath. Whatever Might siee•thitit
specting the property and income• tax by the Rig to hifilat fact n
net at the head of the Government, it was p„ouldn
was intended to be a permanent tax, and ne, ;be itarjoSer
right that a permanent tax of this kind shout!' _
England, Scotland, and Wales, without incluchegann, 'oot tO.l
He well remembered a letter, addressed by the_sishen, ttsit.3
for North Essex to the Right Hon. Baronet et hstuot Pit
Opposition in 1838, when the Right Han• IlTenroalti thAtely
in reply, when an attempt was made to repea.s_ onset...o
0,
during a debate in that House—that it was 110, rinterr.ipt
could not be disguised that if they (the lamiruat ther,hseits
tbe el
tamed a repeal of the malt-tax, that it Muth,. sore teo
of the imposition of a property-tax ; and "'inly jot pet
the result which would in that case most certa,
votes sPuses.,f
that occasion the Irish Members gave their 4000.
Iciesics;
repeal of the malt-tax. He hoped the R. gLn e 11011,• n,bje
would at once assent to the preposition of majesty se
for Bath, in order to deal fairly with all her
a_ 009
,ore ss
Mr. WALLACE said that no man in th st • Plat
pressed a more decided or strong opinion ae: had ilesgose,
tax or an income•tax than he had done. at greo,adood
that opinion at the time the tax was imposene of deg in the
He stated then that he had seen such seen out to a,ej
that nothing would induce him to give his sdulT.tocr altee.rt s err
or a property-tax. Things, however, ha bet
tol!Ftd
distinction seemed now to be well understoeobjeenooe
oh)esibio
perty and an income-tax. He had now n° _but 11_,i00sessid
perty-tax—indeed, he thought it a just on'ehe seie't,e trod
strongly to an income-tax. 'With respect I.73_•l3Atb,het•oysi,i
Hon. and Learned Friend, the Member /war,
~astsia_.,•o
freely and fairly give his vote againste 1,!-ntlei he ler; I'l
on that vote he had very little doubt h srt:wever, ectly °better,
his constituents.—(Hear, hear.) If "should do l4)
proved of the course he bad pursued, Ives6eutel th I`4
them, "Your representation is in your.e but if Y
_oibr the
man, if you think fit—l am your servant,
is(,).000 ap
sins
I
have not served you faithfully, by
.all meta.
esetutatioh._nr
yourselves." He should vote vi ohout h
bee far jilt ta 4FO-11
proposal of the Hon. anti Learned Alem_ e
Colonel SIBTHORP thought it toabt...: (iffaur_oPee tot,
the motion of the Hon. Member for Bt 11e,e'ontinfilget ezil
laughter.) He should also vote agai
nstold hY the '3:O al
income and property•tax until he was „hat it eye le
Baronet at the head of the Government,Joss thrs eeeKoSe,
intention to prolong its continuance ts.eL on
..nsirosglttss,
( Hear, hear. ) If the tax was to be
_indicteda was
England and Scotland, why, he woulq. duty t•
he
en'inution u` to
exemptedet
Scotland,
and? Her r
iconsidered
voting a Ifioe
rd sit
hit
• id.,
t J
Member for Bath.—(Cheers.)
ber le° Pa rer
motion of the Hon. and Learned Mern
_r has-log(0e bowed,s
satisfaction wefts"' si
Lord PALNIERSTON said that whatever tu th 70te°
he certainly would have the Laug, tost e j
that evening an unexampled thine.—;ss Who, on efi.estteS
obtained the support of Hon. MenDwehose orinio_ooo ,d
rally as wide from those entertained had beenni
ouyie4h.,
were directly opposed to him, and
He
the lion, ..airr,,stesr
Member as the poles were asundrc..,,vie, Eona,Lae n.netlilt) 0001;
the Members for Birmingham, Line iTon. and
thereesl
of th
—( Hear.) He was not sorry
the
hhe thought majoritYee 10°:,
had made the motion, because was a feenLe
Was era the les
show the people of Ireland,
House, who entertained a kindle
was not r (wit,
serrY hi& se
d the rut eeeb"-;11
hal been made, but lie regret
couched
his wt
'reeOU'ee
wards Ireland.—(Hear' hear.tlatlledn'e"
%tie° °E;.„tll:hat lb
idl7,'"l
I!°lenibers e whice fegroget
hear.)Hon anti
H e Learned
thou
gh
t there Member
were
regard to Ireland, anti himself in languago and die ot
the 14° ber 11/
which he had expressed
cool considereer Alenil:telatPts
3Piaeltmebeersrtowno)uldco, uolnd tndthnk
ye and whisk, the nest v inuc"ed
not wholly to appro been Aid not .e., isela air
made use of, he would havearuseo) "' subject coo is
(hear, bear.) lie (Lord P
....nt wit to.,ted in te'sistrilgoo
on the argument that they
station that Xis enorcae'o)
mla'otutrbeu
.0
.0
the tax on accouot of thegaglr fact of aut4;:js ifatea.. b
0,1
—(Hear, hear)—he thoursht onnerenper gOlantii I
Irle c?ifib
Ireland, it it was not founded
died to Ira ulear•)the irt
why the tax should not be aPI, e,peslient that tie to
- otherwise, it was just anti
tbt; fact, 131,0004 i rigi",o
his eyes t° ~ long had a dere
not shut
peop they _ on - .0
heavy grievance, or we The Hon. 7.-grout.oa
_not hist
l • considered that they thought teaYinca G.gigh 1;11
complain.—( Hear, hear.). s
He eonw". Scott nd, at
motion was pronoset •
had not been consistent In aegusir,gte‘tilwtha"t.athilY, es"hiledbetheare;
ortion "IY;oearrit'l aree•
self proposed to apply
equality, hfurther •rgt'er A°
equal taxes on Ireland,
fore, instead of rroducing
ined to a - d Fatent. nison.jiett
he count (r sooe stee er.
quality of which
n Irelano, d nthe • for e to
tax was to be imposed o
t be imp
was t re , it
no reason why it should no.,
„here was. grout'
oclene%oo fr.
it was done in England.
1, extend it 'n °joie Ohat 04:siegt
England, ani via
out
tb
the tax to Ireland, let them its be ilikenue t o'l'
1 the • eve Too, the
t protium.
more r--;„,pos' or ,
Ireland, as it would
-11 some tit the "" 'aken
He, however, thought it woos ,
he thotig
had t
bee° -00erit,tisre ej
te
peeted. They
the tax apply to Irelend,
view indeed .0 their Plitty
might pi
tot,
would show that a narro
f country. they e IrellerePais itso
subject. If they
force the resources n- the c Hear, hear' s fool fleAliet
the prosperity of Irelan
the thau,ita. ,
far lees to the resourses of
jenire',. cgibe Itrs'o,
t.iodet',,,
employe;all the moms twodid grticonotopteto
eb
i
5 were be
, slog' _AO
might be etx„1,,,..n a. and froin two, Ao#
it, and
acnapdalreabitiwiesa;
tion to loe .00 to
it had hitherto done in re a otributi
• e that coo
she would be able to giv .
country would stand io a differs.,
(olted s- ts

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