The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-18 00:00:00

•

" Nusquarn tuta fides,"
the measure should pass, and be attended with the good
effects which its promoters anticipated, he should be glad of
it ; he would certainly do or say nothing to retard those
good effects; but as he !lid not anticipat c such beneficial
consequences from the measure, be would deem it to be his
duty now, and in subsequent stages of IL progress, to give
the measure his decided opposition.—(Cheers.)
The CI-lANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
was willing to give his Hon. Friend who h. d just sat down
credit for having taken the gourse which I.e hid taken on
this question, from a conscientious eonyiction of its pro-
priety; and he would only ask from his Han. Friend, in
fairneeo for himself and his colleagues, credit for the same
sincerity in *Looting the course which they had done, in
recommending that taseasure to the House which a sense of
duty painted out to them was imperiously called for, by a
regard to the lenticular state of Ireland and the general
safety and welfare of the Empire. Ile had heard with
regret the expression of distrust in public men which fell
from his Hon. Friend at the conclusion of his speech ; but
heeprisoled himself by the idea that, when his Hon. Friend
saw the :4'.antages which this measure would confer—and
when the benefits that flow from it were made apparent to
him—he (Sir E. filnatehhuli) was possessed of too much
English feeling not to be himself the first to retract the ex-
leseesion of distrust that now escaped him, and to unite in
general ssepgratulation at the peace and tranquillity which
the measurers/4d produce—(Loud cries of hear, hear !)
_His Hon. Friend load observed the same forbearance
which other Hon. Gentleness pad observed in not stating
what course they would recomrnesss% whilst they disap-
proved of that recommended by his Rigtat Hop. Friend.—
(Hear, hear.)-s-His Hon. Friend had stated-Lend stated
truly, that Ministers should not come down to the Hou'se,
and make it incumbent en Hong gentlemen to propose a
measure for them. Ministers had not dope so, but they
brourelat forward a measure formed and prepared, and
pointed orstSlse course which they would recommend the
House to follew, And if his Hon. Friend admitted
with him the danger, 4hl not agree with him as to the
mode of providing for itL-tl4 it was that lie called
upon his Hon. Friend to suggest what A:94a be would re-
commend the House to adopt as a proviswe egeinst it.
The time w,ae twine when it was the unanimous opinion of
his Majesty's Ministers that the general interests and safety
of the Empire required 14-4... t the Catholic Question ought
to be settled. And if any thing could entitle those who
game enat advice to his Majesty to the credit of sincerity,
and ha_ recommending a course which the .ezigencies of
the cdtantry--denaral47l, it was that the adoption a that
course was at vasiasue with the opinions that they
had formerly entertained and ,expressed on this ques-
tion. Considering the difficulties a this case, seeing
the iescreasing evils of the state of society in Iyelends—sce-
ing the inezpvenience of a divided Cabinet and of a disfidesi
Legislature, the eseeiod was arrived when, in the choice of
• that was before ,them, it was better and safer to
evi,a
principle of the aTelusion of Catholics, on
abandon t,..
•,erto acted, and Oppt the principle of
which he had hi,..)—Forni2ri hp bad cer-
their admission.—(He2.' bear'
tainly thought there was less t;! "'ger e
diffcrent g
f-c 11434.9 Pyt
he now felt it to be his duty to advise oPFse
from that which, when acting on that princip:::; be bad
advocated. His Hon. Friend had stated that he 5?.117
nothing in the state of society in Ireland that galled for this
measure that did not exist in an equal, and even in a greater
degree, in many antecedent periods ; and he referred,
as a proof of it, to the crimes and outrages of the ysar
1822. The time to which he particularly referred was
one at which his Right Hon. Friend the late Attorney-
General for Ireland (Mr. Plunkett) hail prosecuted certain
persons who were bound by illegal oaths fer the subsilaktien
of Protestant property. In prosecuting for an offence of
this description, it was natural that his Right Hon. Friend
should have expressed himself in strong and indignant terms
against such an Association as that of the Ribbonmen,
which he was then entleavouripg to suppress by the ordi-
nary means of legal process. But this was a different state
of things from the present aggravated Qyits of the state of
society in Ireland. In the case alluded to lay my Ijon.
Friend, the Attorney-General was a public prosecutes.
against an illegal confederacy—the Ribbonmen—who were
visitew with the condign punishment of the law. But
what was tiro nature of the prostate evil? All classes
throughout the country were excited to die highest pitch
of exasperation. Citiyen was assayed in hestiie reeling
and attitude against his fellow-citizen, and there was -a
perpetual menace of the disturbance which was only to be
restrained by the presence of military force. surely, no
man would approve of a tranquillity which was only to be
maintained by such means. He was surprised that his
Hon. Friend could see no ground for fresh and aggravated
evils in this state of society, and in the progressive

tendency to grow Worse which its continuance and long
endurance had created. The progressive and continued
extension of the mischiefs of such a condition of things
must eventually subvert the whole system of society ; and
it was on these grounds of new and additional alarm, that
the Government felt it to be its duty to provide an anti-
dote for them. His Hon. Friend had quoted a passage
from a speech of his Right Hon. Friend, which stated that
the two religions were inconsistent, and that one or other of
them must be ascendant. His justification of the measure
was, that it would establish the ascendancy of the Protest-
ant religion in Ireland—(Cheers.)—An opportunity would
be afforded for the Church in Ireland being more favourably
regarded and being more intimately known ; and when it
was so regarded and so known, he had every confidence
that its ascendancy would be fairly established. The pre-
sent circumstances of religion, together with the state of
society, and the peculiar position of the Government, and
of Parliament, impressed his mind with the necessity of a
change. The situation of the Church in Ireland was very
peculiar. He had greater opportunities than most persons,
from his official station in Ireland, of observing the condi-
tion of that Church. It was the religion of a minority of
the people of a country, the majority of whom principally
contributed to its support. It depended mainly on the
purity of its doctrines--the morality of its professors--the
good-will of the people among whom it was established,
and also upon the support of Government and the protec-
tion of Parliament. He had known many of the Clergy
of that religion in Ireland, and could bear testimony to their
exemplary conduct. Although they had to contend with
the difficulties to which he had adverted, yet he could
state that when first he went to Ireland, the resident
Protestant Clergy had conciliated the respect and affection
of those who differed from them in religious belief ; so
far did this feeling prevail, that in temporal matters the
Roman Catholics deferred to their judgment ; a good
understanding subsisted between the Clergymen of both
persuasions, and the Clergymen communicated religious
instruction and improved the moral feeling of the popula-
tion in their neighbourhood. But that state of things had
since much changed. The Catholic population had not
now the same confidence in them, nor did they pay the
same attention to them even in temporal matters. The
Right Honourable Gentleman proceeded to advert to the
moral improvement which lie expected would flow from
the proposed measure, and the advantages which the cause
of true religion would obtain from the subsiding of harsh
and angry feelings, which would dispose the minds of the
people to religious instruction. The petitions presented to
the House against concession afforded evidence of the in-
creasing difficulties and dangers with which the Protestant
religion was surrounded in Ireland. In the petition pre-
sented from the Clergy of Dublin it was stated, that the
Protestant religion was daily more systematically assailed,
and their faith and doctrines misrepresented. They felt
this adverse organization growing so stroag, that they
prayed the interposition of Parliament for their protection.
He had many letters containing statements, confirming the
description which he had:given of the present condition of
the Clergy of the Establishment in Ireland. He would
refer to one of those statements contained in the speech of
a most respectable Clergyman, who stated " that he had
the greatest difficulty in collecting Church-rates—that he
was usually compelled to have recourse to law to recover
them, and that the tribunal to which the cause was referred
for judgment generally availed itself of the most frivolous
pretext to refuse a decree." It was further stated that re-
pairs of the Church had taken place three years ago, and
that they were not yet paid for, and that the salaries of the
churchwarden and sexton were not paid.--(There was here
much confusion and some impatience manifested.)—The
Right I-lon. Gentleman apologized for going into these de-
tails, but he thought it important to show how the Church
in Ireland was at present situated, with a view of pointing
out how desirable it would be to avail themselves of a mea-
sure which afforded the prospect of that situation being
altered and improved. This prospect, he thought, would
be afforded by diminishing the hostility and opposition
with which the Church was at present regarded in
Ireland—where, in niany instances, the strongest dis-
inclination existed to pay any thing except by the
compulsory process of law. The Right Honourable
Gentleman proceeded to advert to the benefits attendant
upon the Tithe Composition Act, which he took pride to
himself in forwarding through parliament; but much
good as that Act had done, he felt that this measure of
concession yet remained to conciliate the respect and con-
fidence of the population towards the Protestant Clergy, of
whose instructions it could never be hoped that they would
avail themselves with advantage until they ceased to regard
them with aversion. Did not the Church of Ireland suffer
from other causes ? Had it not suffered from the debates
which had taken place respecting it at various periods in
that House? Let the House recollect the speeches which
had been made on those occasions. Would such speeches
have been made if there was not something wrong in the
state of the Church of Ireland ? He trusted that by a re-
moval of the existing causes of discontent in Ireland, the
temper of the people might be amended, the voice of reason
be listened to, and a considerable moral and religious im-
provement be effected. Although he was not so sanguine
in his expectations of the benefice that would be derived
from the measure as some individuals, vet lie was convinced
that those benefits would not be inconsiderable. Called
upon as he had bean by the extraordinary position of the
question, he had no difficulty in makiug a sacrifice of all
personal considerations, and in declaring his conviction that
the:course which had been recommended to Parliament by
his Majesty's Government was that which, under all the
cireumatances of the case, was the best which could have
been adopted for the purpose of tranquillizing Ireland,
and giving to the Protestant Church of that country its
proper predominance. He would not trespass longer upon
the attention of the House.
Mr. G. BANKES, while he acknowledged that in
numbers and in talents those who with him were opposed
to the measure under consideration were overpowered, yet
maintained that neither in numbers, rank, character, or
talent, ought they to be eonaidered as contemptible.
Whatever obloquy, however, might be heaped in that
House upon the comparatively few who opposed this
measure, lie was quite content to share that obloquy with
them, provided he might also have his bumble share of the
praise arid good-will of the people at large which that op-
position had excited towards them. He was quite ready
to acknowledge that the proposition value before the House
under auspices of a very different nature from any by which
it had heretofore been ushered in to their notice. It was
impossible to conceal that the advocates had on their side
the pame which was justly called a tower of strength.
That that name was a tower of strength he should be one
of the laSt men in the house to deny. It was a tower of
strength which nothing could assail or move, unless it
were the prayers and supplications of the people--prayers
and supplications which, if carried to the foot of the
Throne, would, he was sure, be there received with the
most affectionate eonaideretien. And here he could not
avoid expressing his deep regret at the manner in which
the numerous petitions which had been presented to that
House had been treated. It had been said by an
Hotaqotable Friend of his, whose general candour he
was nevertheless quite ready to admit, that consider-
ing the unprecedented number of the petitions, he
thought that they had met with a fair degree of at-
tention. Now to him (Mr. Bankes) it appeared that pre-
cisely because they were so numerous were they entitled to
more than ordinary respect. Under such circumstances-!
lie regretted the sarcastic and severe scrutiny so often at-
tempted, but ire es any cases frustrated, which had been
resorted to with reference to these petitions. For himself
be had weighed with the moat scrupulous and unaffected
dittdeocia the opinions on this subject which he had enter-
tained up to the present time. When he found that those
for whose opinions he eyer di l entertain and for whom he
now entertained the most profound respect had sten oeca-
sion to change their sentiments, it appeared tp him to be
something like presumption on his part to venture to differ
#OO phew. But having deliberately weighed the opinions
could ;..1,4 always enteitained on this subject, be
could honestly say thast -he
was unable to discover any
fallacy in th&t.---He had ps.tenead with the utmoit atten-
tion to all that bad been orged 'hy the fir'iends of the
measure ; he bad listened with the ..iitmo3;k.
anal with some surprise, to what fallen front 'the
Rigbit Ppoourable the Chancellor of the Exchequer ;
be had listened with the utmost attention to the atirnirabie
speech with which t../le Bight Hon. the Secretary of State
for the Home Department introduced the present Bill
to the House ; lie had listened' to 41 the deductions by
the Asoreus mind of that night lion. SiesStie:trian
had been led to after the course which he' had so long -pee
sued, and to make the w dpssbt to him painful change in
his conduct whielt bad eoseett• wpa:td not beef:ine hiin
(Mr. Bankes) to attempt, to Mow tik.e
man through a speech of such distinguished afallity ;Int 11,
might perhaps be permitted by the House to esly,est s9ip,e
of the leading circumstances by which the Right iten•
kiesatlemati appeared to be actuated. The state of Ireland,
as represeutei by the Right Hon. Gentleman, was not, as
NagieTstookl him, worse than it had been
hfiew(nAllarn.yllailkeesed)ing
years.
Right Hon. Gentleman
admitted that to the existing evils" etassthee remedy might
;se applied ; but that remedy, he added, syould b only a.
ternposaeyone. Now, his (Mr. Banker'
s), eonvietion 100,
that the
preseat rill was only a temporary remedy. There
,!vil.cets to be discussed, grievances to
ineaurledmoitvielldr;
e3;11olve all,. these avould remain that great
grievance, in the opinion of the Catboiics of Ireland the
Protestant Ascendancy. The Right Hen. coapeellos of

%L.
the Exchequer *aid Alt tglvas a Bill for'establishing the
Protestant Ascendancy ; and that that was one of the main
objects which recommended it to his mind. Now, al-
though he (Mr. Bankes) was not quite of that opinion,
yet, looking at what the state of the Church in Ireland
would still be, as compared with what the Roman Ca-
tholics would wish to make it, it undoubtedly was so.
Complaints, therefore, would still be made, for never
would the Catholics be satisfied with any thing short of
eqUality. He was justified, therefore, in characterising
the present as only a temporary measure. To many of the
Right lion. Gentleman's observations, as applicable to the
existing Church Establishment in Ireland, he bad listened
with considerable surprise. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man set out with stating the peculiar situation in which
. the Church Establishment in Ireland was placed, and
the difficulties with which it had to contend ; and add-
ed, that for those reasons it was necessary they should
continue to have the support of a Protestant Govern-
ment. But of what avail would that be, supposing that
a Roman Catholic were (as by the Bill he might be)
at the head of that Government ? Would that tend to the
security of the Church Establishment? There could be no
doubt that his Majesty's Ministers had not brought forward
the measure until they had most deliberately considered it;
and the only remedy they could devise for the danger to the
Church Establishment which would arise from a Roman
Catholic being Prime Minister, was, that during the time
that a Roman Catholic was Prime Minister all the patron-
age of the Church should be placed in the hands of Com-
missioners. But who was to appoint these Commissioners?
The Prime Minister. It was true that it was declared that
it would be a misdemeanour on the part of any Prime Mi-
nister, being a Roman Catholic, to give counsel to the King
with respect to the patronage of the Church ; but he might
recommend the Commissioners to whom was to be en-
trusted the dispensing of that patronage, and, for aught
that appeared in the Bill, he might counsel those Com-
, missioners. Those Commissioners, too, were liable to
be removed ; for there was nothing in the Bill which
stated that it should be a permanent commission—that
would be too fatal a measure. Those, therefore, who would
'Have to dispose of the patronage of the Church would be
but the creatures of the Prime Minister. The rights and
the privileges of a Prime Minister were well known.—
They had been fully discussed in that and the other House
of Parliament in 1827. The power of a Prime Minister
emanated from him like light from the sun. If, there-
fore, he entertained certain opinions, whether or not lie
expressed those opinions in words, his power was suffi-
ciently great to cause them to be respected. Those were
some of the difficulties respecting the Church Establishment
which were not sufficiently removed by the Bill. Yet he
was perfectly satisfied that if it had been possible to find
a better remedy for them, his Majesty's Government, men
of acknowledged talent, would have devised it. As to
securities, those proposed were inadequate to meet the
fears, whether well or ill 1 ounded, of those who opposed
the measure. He was aware that there were some little
decorations in the Bill purporting to be securities. They
were of infinitely little consequence, but he would just ad-
vert to them. Among other matters, the Irish Eccle-
siastics were no longer to be permitted to do what they bad
so long obtrusively and almost insultingly done—assume
the titles belonging to others, and call themselves Bishops
of Dublin, Limerick, &c. It was well to abolish this
practice, but he thought the benefit purchased at too high
a rate. Besides, we had already got this security, as it
was called, by the law. The Hon. Member here referred
to the provisoes of the Irish Statutes of 1781 and 1782,
and contended that by them Popish Ecclesiastics were for-
bidden to assume- the rank or emblems of Bishops of the
Established Church.—(Mr. Doherty, we believe, intimated
across the table that those Statutes had been repealed by
the Statutes of 1793.)—He did not think that the Sta-
tutes of 1793 repealed the Statutes of 1781 and 17821 at
least not in express terms, whatever it might do by impli-
cation. If, however, the Solicitor-General for Ireland dif-
fered from him on that subject, lie must bow to his supe-
rior opinion. The argument of the Right Hon. the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer was rather at variance with itself
when he spoke of the growing disinclination in Ireland to
pay tithes, and tile disrespect shown towards the Pro-
testant Clergy ; and he (Mr. Bankes) could not follow the
Right Hon. Gentleman in his reasons why those circum-
stances tended to show the expediency of a Bill which
would certainly increase both those feelings. Another ar-
gument forcibly urged by the Right Hon. Secretary of
State had not led his (Mr. Bankes's) mind to the convic-
tion to which it had led the mind of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman. He meant the argument derived from the deci-
sions which • the two houses of Pailiament bad hitherto
come to on the subject. In that House it was true that
the opinions on the Catholic Question had, until the pre-
sent Session, been nearly.balanced. But.was it so in the
other House? Was a large majority in one House of Parlia-
ment to give way to nearly balanced numbers iu the other?
When in one House there had always been a majority against
the measure, and in the other it had never been sanc-
tioned but by a very small majority, was it just or reason-
able to expect that the former should give way to the lat-
ter ? However disagreeable it might be to the Hon. and
Learned Solicitor-General for Ireland, he must advert to
the Constitution as established in 1688. He would do so,
however, in better language than any which he (Mr.
Bankes) could command. Ile would read the sentiments
of those who in 1688 appeared to have taken into their con-
sideration the very question of the securities for the Pro-
testant establishment. He would first quote the Bill of
Rights, the declaration made by the Prince of Orange on
his landing. "It is likewise certain that there have been, at
divers and sundry times, several laws enacted for the pre-
servation of those rights and liberties and of the Protestant
religion ; and among other securities it has been enacted,
that all persons whatsoever that are advanced to any eccle-
siastical dignity, or to bear office in either University, as
likewise all others that should be put in any employment
civil or military, should declare that they were not Papists,
but were of the Protestant religion, and that, by their
taking of the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy, and the
Test. Yet these evil councellors have, in effect, annulled
and abolished all those laws, both with relation to Eccle-
siastical and Civil employments." Again, " They have
also followed the same methods with relation to Civil
affairs ; for they have procured orders to examine all Lords
Lieutenants, Deputy Lieutenants, Sheriffs, Justices of the
Peace, and also all others that were in any public employ.
ment, if they would concur with the King in the repeal of
the Test and the Penal Laws; and all such whose con-
sciences did not suffer them to comply with their designs
were turned out, and others were put in their places, who
they believed would be more compliant to them—(a laugh)
—in their designs of defeating the intent and execution of
those laws which had been made with so much care and
caution for the security of the Protestant religion." Again,
towards the close of the declaration :—" We now think fit to
declare that this our expedition is intended for no other
design but to have a free and lawful Parliament assembled
as soon as is possible ; that none be suffered to choose or
to be chosen Members of Parliament but such as are quali-
fied by law ; and that the Members of Parliament being
thus lawfully chosen they shall meet and sit in full free-
dom, that so the two Houses may concur in the preparing
of such laws as they, upon full and free debate, shall judge
necessary and convenient both for the confirming and exe-
cuting the law concerning the Test and such other laws as
are necessary for the security and maintenance of the Pro-
te4-ant i•eligipn."-,(Hear, hear, hear.)—Were these senti-
ments after Wards forgotten, or pot gcted open? Let the
following passage from the Bill of Rights show To
which demand of their rights they are particularly en•
couraged by the declaration of his Highness the Prince of
Orange, as being the only means for obtaining a full re-
dress and remedy therein." These passages which he had
offered to the House in preference to any thing which he
cold have stated from himself, appeared to him con-
elusive pn the Feint that the Test and the Pool Laays, in
4efepeg pf the Protestant religion, were net matters for-
gotten in those days. flu felt obliged to the House fur
the great indulgence with which they had heard hint.
He confessed that he had expressed hirmelf with great
strength, but he did feel strongly on the subject, though
lie trusted that his views were only those of a fair and ho-
nourable opposition.
Members rose at once ; but after a cry of their
rOgeCtaile navies, ,tl4.s
Cas-
tlereagh
1 o:YR:stalst ind Pn o.l:pt s
said,
tAr
n
Hiso
self, awl
,
. iSPEAKER declared that Lord
lia
tion should
b,
in which he stood, and still more unworthy of the
name he bore,—(Hear, hear)—if he could contemplate
Ci4a possibility of an attempt to settle the destinit s of his
country; 'ne gave a silent vote, or omitted to record,
helruated flfr the :tdst.tirn6 riiihju those walls, his con-
scientious opinions in which`llo''.lidd been Jure4, ip
otltlie present,
poshie_
4tich it was his pride and' glory totontinae.'
thatas. the humble representative of the 'Most
Peoli:sttont count` --
Tno.t Protestant part of Irelandl-
iixe Prpyjnee':or
sity whatever to 4e;:ea'N upOtlie /-MtTd.3' and iitoveyxil
enjoyed by the people of parl':9l ' TheS, Ni 4?
e felt hito4f4f 151.det no neces-
rich, prosperous, and happy. There was rt,liliirg tt4 drive
them from the peaceful firesside, and they felt grateful for
the blessings they enjoyed, and they trusted that Provi-
AeP!-'e, would bestow on them a long continuance of their
ProspailY and happloesa. It might be asked, for what
reason should that pOrtipn•of Irelan.l be marked out for
such peculiar blessings,
why were peQpie 'PP fte.rliarly'
situated ? The reason was obvious. They had no restric-
tive
laws whatever. They suffered under no restrictions—
.

they laboured under no disabilities. No Withering blight
had crossed the pathway they had trod. They had
learned what every Englishman was bound to learn—
that they were free. But they were willing to barter
that state of happiness for the diffusion of equal bless-
ings to those around them. There was an,, old saying,
" that men grew rich only in proportion as their neighbours
thrived." This was perfectly consistent with theory or sci-
ence, and it related to nations and districts as well as to
individuals. Nations now felt that it was better to have
rich than poor neighbours. The people of that part of
Ireland which he represented, were powerful and happy;
but they had not yet arrived at that degree of mature and
perfect prosperity which was attainable under a'different
Constitution. He confessed he had heard it asserted that
this was strictly a political and not a religious question.
If be was wrong he spoke under correction, bat he con-
fessed he had never been able to see how this could be con-
sidered as a religious question. They were not met there
to debate upon the errors of the Vatican, the increase of
the order of the Jesuits, or upon any such abuses; they
were all detestable to the country, and deservedly so.
But this was in every respect a national question, and it
involved the salvation of the country. By grasping, as it
had been well observed, the long lost but newly found
energies of Irish prosperity, they would strengthen their
own Constitution. This was an object most peculiarly to
be wished for. Was the conversion of Roman Catholics
to Protestantism desirable? If it were, he would under-
take to say that there would be more conversions in one
hour after the removal of the Catholic disabilities, than
in a century of agitation and degrading restrictions. If
increased strength were desirable, they would have it ten
thousand fold from the confidence, the loyalty, the pa-
triotism. which would spring front this measure. Was
happiness their aim, it would be spread with enthusiastic
and overwhelming energy by the removal of religious
disabilities. It had been said that the Protestant Church
required certain securities—that exclusion, and restric-
tions, and disabilities were necessary to maintain the fabric
of that glorious Church Establishment, and without which
its permanence could not be secured. In his opinion the
Protestant Church needed no Such bulwarks. The se-
curity, strength, and stability of the Protestant Church
consisted in the purity of her doctrines and in the
character of her ministry, and in that bright and happy
spirit of uniform charity in which she had been established.
The effect of the present measure would be, to unite two
countries in the bonds of peace and amity—to cement
the interests arid identify the feelings of two great and
powerful nations—to snake their hitherto-divided interests
and objects to be pursued in one common course—to ratify
and make perfect what had hitherto been unratified and
imperfect—to change the source of rancour and heart-
burnings into a source of prosperity; such would be the
effects of the measure which his Majesty's Government had
so happily propose) to the House.
Mr. SADLER, in addressing the House, confessed that
if he could attend to the dictates of his own diffidence he
should remain silent, but at a crisis like the present he
was willing to expose himself to the imputations so illibe-
rally cast upon all who expressed the opinions he felt him-
self bound to maintain. He could not justify himself in
giving a silent vote on that measure which had been so
ably defended during the night, although in expressing his
opinion he knew he should have to labour under the charge
of bigotry; and a stigma yet more distressing to a generous
mind, that lie was wanting in benevolence and liberality as
well as in truth and intelligence. He had seen enough
since he had entered that House, to know the treatment
that they must meet with who continued in the course
which had been so long dear to them, but he was pre-
pared to take his humble share of it. He knew that in
opposing the measure before the House, he spoke the sen-
timents of a vast mass of what he had heard described as
the ignorant, the bigoted community—he meant the reli-
gious community of England, many of whom were as
competent to decide the question as those who had taken
so much pains to stultify them ; they were even much
better able, as they brought to the question the light of
common sense, and the stability of principle.—(A laugh.)
—Perhaps he might trespass on the understanding of the
House; but before he ventured on one argument upon
what he thought to he the principles of the British Con-
stitution, he might be allowed to revert to what had been
that evening the subject of general discussion. It is the
condition of Ireland that has been presented to us as what
was to incline the House to make such tremendous inroads
on the British Constitution. It was asked what did they pro-
pose to do with respect to Ireland? Could Ireland be saved
otherwise than by the extinction of Protestant Ascend-
ancy? This was the question askedhy all the advocates
of the measure, and to this question lie would now confine
himself before he proceeded to notice the subject of the
Constitution. No man who knew anything of the history
of Ireland—and lie spoke in the presence of those who
would rectify him it wrong—no man, he said, who was
acquainted with the history of that country would at-
tempt to attribute the distress now so much dwelt upon to
what was called Protestant Ascendancy, or to any thing
relating to the Protestant Religion. The distress of Ire-
land, its difficulties, its disorders, bad nothing to do with
the Protestant Establishment, nor with Catholic disabili-
ties, for that distress existed in its full force before the
Reformation, and consequently before Protestantism could
be guilty of that with which it is now accused. Ireland
was equally distressed when the Catholic religion was the
sole religion of the country. He could prove this by
history, but he believed it would be scarcely necessary to
do so. Could effects remain the same when causes were
different? That the causes of the distress were not
changed, lie might appeal to a late Right Hon. Secretary
for Ireland, who, although he is not now a part of his
Majesty's Government, was yet favourable to the question
before the Douse. In his speech, delivered to Parliament,
and which was afterwards deliberately given to the pub=
lic, he said, that the evils of Ireland, for the last six years,
had sprung from—what?—Protestant Ascendancy ? No
but from local causes. If it were necessary, he could
bring forward proofs. Every evil of Ireland, that had
existed from her first connection with England, had origi-
nated in her feeling herself a conquered country. This
had been her misfortune. Her lands had been wrested
from the original possessors and parcelled out to strangers,
upon the express condition of their residing upon them,
and afterwards upon the condition of their supporting the
Protestant religion. These conditions had been entirely
neglected. The parties had kept possession of the lands,
without fulfilling any of the terms upon which they
hai been granted. The evils of Ireland were clearly
to be traced to what would render this or any other
country distressed—the desertion of those who owed every
thing to their country. He begged the House to con-
sider what bad been said by every writer of note, that the
train of evils consequent upon this had been the source of all
the miseries of Ireland. Employment had been taken
from the people, and they had been driven to desperation.
Could the House, therefore, contemplate the relief of Ire-
land by the measure now proposed ? Let it be considered
how the property of the country was administered by the
absentees---the heartless absentees, who gave their order§
to others to execute, and cleared themselves of the evil
consequences. Whole tracts of country were swept of id.
stb
habitants, from their being deprived of employment. It
was only a few years ago that the crowded manufacturing
districts of this countrywere distressed wider similar
causes—the want of employment, and the consequent watt
of bread. Demagogues had appeared among them.,
.afl4
had inflamed the people, by representing that all their tine
tresses arose solely from the want of Parliamentary Re-
form. Agitators had pursued the same course with re-
spect to Ireland. They had taken advantage of the dis-
tresses of that country, and had told the people that all
their
thadsufferings
solely from the want of Emancipa-
tion. n
periodo of turbulence in png!apd
lenders—soreGovere-
were tried, condemned
and punished,,
netoizee dthe arose
and riots ceased ; but, with agitators of the
Catholic population of Ireland, Government, so far from
acting a similar part, had actually connived at their pro-
ceedings. Could any man suppose that the proposition
before the House could have any effect upon the great mass
of the Deople of Ireland? The only proceedings on be-
half of Ireland in thii Bill, with respect to the gyee; mash
of the population, was the wresting from them a for-
feiture of their long exercised privileges. They tore from
the peasant what lie long enjoyed, in order, as it was said,
to possess the Catholics with more power. If Government
did no better than this, Ireland never could, and never
o It* to be calm.—(Llear, hear.)—He would venture to
stiggese.tyliat o-aght to be done, and what must be done,
or otherwise doiriun6ht nit* "pe do;ng no':.hitig. Le-
gislate for Ireland, taking with you the tights• com-
mon sense and experience.—(Loud and continued
laughter.) Go to the task with a warmth of bene-
volence, and with a kindness in your bearts.—(Loud
and continued 1341.5. q 2f. laughter ).—Government must
de'Velope interiCal' tesiiiireee of the country, 1,10%V unexe
plored anChaittiost rintouelied: Intirodnee a' moderate 'syS-
tem of .the Poor Las Vs. iloverritnent should concede to
'poverty and 'ffistrese those rights .which God and 'nature
ensl.,Awli had 1,-een ocenclalensly withheld so long.
They ifiusedifffise .dnuini the people
.of that country the
betteenidiire p rbfisrian edeeatirieJ 1 Tti'ey thuit!4,i;ltltis
and then their labour would reward them richly. Those
were the means of improvement so obvious, although they
had been ridiculed by theoretical fully. (Loud and con-
tinued laughter, with cheers, and cries of hear, hear.)
There would be resisted by interestedness; but they would
fin rio I°4 blue VggeFPi:zik Ireland. Could the house
. i listen to selfish agitatore, whose vleWs sere riot the inice!