The Sun.
London, England, 1818-02-25 00:00:00

HOUSE OF Co34Al'6l*S'.

_Mt...Johnson, from, the:Office, of the Chief•Seeretary foth
Ireland, presented a miniber of Betiirus relative •to Grand
Jury.P.re,Sentilients in Ireland -,-Ordered to lie on the.Talik,
Lord APSLEY presented a Petition ironi•Gloucester, pray-
ing, for an Amendment of the Bankrupt Laws,- • „
Mr. GORDON brought,iip the Report of the Gaol Cha'p-
lain7s Bill 1
..• ,
.Mr. CURSYEN. proposed a Clause, providing that there
should 1m no Chaplain in any t-laot, In which the Adult Pri-
soners-on the average of the last three years had not exceeded
twenty .in,number.. , • . . - •

Tbi;.Cladie was opposed by Loid FOLKESTONE, and sup-
ported by Mr. HARVEY. • ,
. The Gallia y was-cleared for a-division, but-we understood
that none took place.

. •
•• . STEAM BOAT \S, • • •" • -
Mr. HARVEY rose to tritlie. his.. promised motion on the
subject of Steam !coats, and having briefly stated, that the,
objects of..the.mertsure! that. lie *as .desirous to-introduce
were to .entorce.the Registry of Stram Boats in some place ,
near*.to that iii ,fothich-41)•ey were used, and to provide that
their PoilerS shtiuld,.he of Wrought Metal,. mored.for, anti
obtained leave to bring in ie*Bill,.to secure the Safety of Pas-
sengers•in Vessels navigated.hy means of Steam. •
,tilr. H.IIWf,Y subsetptently hi-Ought in the Bill, which was
read a first time, and .ordered to be read a second time trto
Thursday,: - , .

• On the nation of Lord MILTON, an Account was °Mitred
to he laid before the House, of all Faculties..geaoteit for I'. w&
in. 'Churches and, chapels•Tif Ease since the 'year '1790.
On the. motion of Mr. F. DOUGLAS, an Account was or-
.dered to:be laid before the House of all Fees and other Ey-
pence attendant:on Pardons granted under the Great•Scal.
Mr, PEEL brought. up the Report of the Goanititte on the
Petition from the Irish Royal Canal Company; and
Lord MILTON the tcport of the ComMittee on the -Pe-
tion of the Cutlers of Yorkshire—Ordered to lie on the
• .

•
Mr. CURWEN presented a Petition from the Calkers em-
ployed in Chatham pack-yard, complaining of in4di,ttate
provision on superaumtation.—ordered to lie on the lable..
Mr. Conceit expressing his hope that the subject would
be taken into consideration by the Lords of the Admi-
ralty.

, .
Gt;neral GASCPIONE presente.l a petition from the
'antlers of Liverpool and its vicinity aglinst the Leather

On the motion for laying the petition on the Table,
Mr. BENSON adverted to the rionterotts petitions -for the
repeat of this Tax which hail been presented to the House,
urged their consideration on the !tight. Hon. Gentleman, the
Chancellor of the Exchequer' and trusted, that when the
Right Honourable Gentleman brought forward his Budget,
he would make pi ovision for the repeal of an impost, the ex-
istence of which was incompatible with that of the ma n ufactitre
Petition was then ordered to lu printed.
Mr. RENNET presented a I.etition from Benjamin IVbite-
ley, who had been confined in Yorkshire under the Act for
Suspending the Habeas Corpus, complaining of severity of
treatment.—Ordered to lie on the 'Fable.
Mr. BENNET also presented a Petitioa from Richard
Of Holmforth, near Hittirleistield, stating that he had been
arrested under the. same Act, and confided in ir.,n. fir -five
days and nights, in a cell with a person accused, and if.cr-
wards.ennyieted of murder, and with :mother who had cut
his throat ; arid comp4tioing, of other inflictions of severity,
nim'arralited by the nature .of his case. The Hooonrabie
;Member observed, that it was impossible for Ilia) to be re-
spotisiltle for the truth-of these allegations, but that •be felt
it his duty to present the Petition.—'ilut Pet itiou wasesrdered.
to be printed.
Mr. CALCRAFT presented the Report of the Com ruiltee
, on the Petition .from the High -Constithiielir
praying for compensation fur the at tendonce of himself and
officers on that) House. The Report stated, in substance-, that
throe was no just ground fur such an. application.- Ordet ed
to he on flue Table.
Mr. BI.NNET postponed front Wednesday, to Monday'
next, his 'notion for' .the abolition of the practice of giv!ng
Blood-money.
Sir .1. NEWPORT presented Petitions froi,T the Cities of
Waterford and Litimerrek, praying for, the repeal.of the Win-.
" dow Tax.--Ordeled to lie on the Table.
CONVEYANCERS.
Mr. %V. COURTENAY presented a Petition, signed by
onwards of 101) of the most respectable Attornies and Solici-
tors in the Metropolis, respecting the present improper
practice of Con veyaneing, by persons not bred or educated to
the Law. The Honourable Member pointed oaf many evils
resulting to the Public by the permission at iiresentalLorded
to persons not qualified, either by education or-habits, to: 'en-
croach upon the legal profession; and onless the Legislature
immediately put a stop to such practitioners, it was impossible
'to calculate,the mischiefs Which must inevitably arise to those.
Who employed ;hem, and to their families hereafter. The
Honourable Member concluded by hoping the House would
tahe:the subject cornplained'of into immediate consideration.
The Petition was read, and ordered to be printed.
SECRET COMMITTEE.
Mr. PHILIPS Nvished -tir ask the Right Hon: the Chancel-.
for of the Exchequer, whether fhe Report of thu Secret Com-
mittee would he laid before the House to Might?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered,
that it would probably not he presented till to-morrow.
Mr. PHILIP' postponed his motion for referring the Pe- -
!Rion from Manchester against the employment. of Spies and
Informers to a Select Conuultbee, from friday next to Thurs-
day se'unight.

CITY REVENUE.
Mr. HoLus SUMMER rose to submit a mltion
to the House for the putvse (f- obtaining from
the City of London an .Account of, their Revenue
for the five years ending the 3) st December last.
The application which the City of London had
lately made to be allowed to raise.mouey on the
credit of 'the Orphan Fund, or in other words,
to be a!4owed to tux the neighbottring counties,
to defray the adslitiotial sent of thirty-four
thousand pounds required to complete their
new prison, an
,object of the City of Lyndon
alone, certainly justified' biro in calling on the
Corporation of that City to lay an. Account of
their affairs before the Houie. The measure for
which the City Members now cattle forward was
one of a very extraordinary nature indeed. By, •
the fifty-second of the'litng, the City of London
was authorised to borrow 95,0001;mi the cre-
dit of the Orphan Fupd for the erection of a
• New PriSon. No one doubted, at .the time
this sum was granted," that it• was not. per-
fectly adequate to its purpose ; but the City of
eithei• Irmo having made choice of a si-
lhikit 101 l for building too lintitetl in space, or from
the. prodigality with which !hey had 'gone to
work, had spent this monty without, accomplish,._
ing their object, and they now came forward far
a fresh demand at. 34,0001. in addition to the
former grant of 95;000I: The House ought itot.
Co. give their. consent to-this additional grant tilt
the City spewed the manner in which the fortnrr
stun (rad been expended. . The Cot poration of Use
City of London bad been charged in their . own
Coort,•by none of their. most intelligent Menibt is,
with Wiisleftil and improvident expenditure. The
exprnee of ap -entertainment given bv them to the
Liberators of Europe was stated at 24;0001. • On
examination, I.la believed it would be toubd nearer-

to -40,0001. than 24,0001. He understood that
. lltrving the last 37 years the C.UPoratiori had •ex-
Pco‘jed in improvement of the public streets, &c.
45,0001 , in gold poxes and swmrls to our N'aval
and, Nlilitary Officers, 7,8091—( Hear, front Sir
Curtis).—if the H tiouf able Baroffet
ecild s'iew \Oat they po'ssesseAl. any, superfluity,.
, then ice was ready to dlow that these were proper
objects of their intinifici,nee. Bitt:if they expend-
ed' their money on these objects, and then canie
'forward to ask, for public aid for objects, which
they were hound. fopro-videior Out of their oWn
Rinds, the!. such' an cxpendit.nre was most blame,
able. 'flteyJmd expynded.for the .Statores of the
Eing, Lord Chatham, aurl Mr: Pitt, Boxes
to the Duke's Of Kent and Sussex; and. to Colonel
NV,.ndte, and other pithl:ie men, upwards of 18;0001,
for (..oiours to iT,iluntver Regiments,. 1.6001,—in
Don:.tions to Public Cliaritiest3,oool.,in Donations
to Public Objects connected with Politics 25..9681.
The whole Of the stimS expended on.these rhfferent
, objects, amounted to no less than 126.5401. Now the
• sum required for this Ge.iol was 130,0001.; and thus,
,if.the Corporation of -the City had been just be,-
fp're they were generous, t he. soms which they has
so misapplied might !Live boensu.fficient to cool -
plete .their • prison. very particle •of this
126,0001.: so spent; was a misapplication. Un-
fortunately, liwever; this.was not, the first mis-
application. The Honourable. Gentleman then
went.into an aetontit of the transactions whicb
lea to the grant of the duty, commonly called the
()cobalt -Tax: Ile held in his hands •a brief
statetneut of the derrimits of the City, annually
disti.itAtted among the Members of the Corpora-
. . In that statement' he ohserved that the
Lotd Mayor and Aldermen of the City of London-,
were debtor s,,t-O the, amount' Of 53,0001. to a fund
Of which they• were the Trustees, and which
wa3 granted to them for a certain specific
Object. The Bridge-house Estate was vest-
ed.in them tor the building and repairing Landon
. Bridge when necessary. Of the fonds of this 85
't ate 33,000/. and 25,0001 3 per cent,Stock, nirw
, worth 20.0001 in all 53,0001. had been appropliated,
by the Lord Mayor and Aldermen, to other objects.
So that if omit or two • arches of London. Bridge
should- happen to he swept away, a thing very
. far front improbable, they most again come to
the biphran Food.. It Was. too lenient a term 1.0
call
,this a
,misapOcation—it was a downright
to.e 'eniliezzlent of these funds. But -this: was not
the'only misapplication of the fends of this estate.
By an ancient the,City of London had a
jtolsdicionin part of the County of Surrey, the 130
.rough of Sour hwark-:--akftiviiction Wrhich had long
beendoituant.lt had latel:filmwOer, been re,;ived,
for the creation of a plaCe for decayed Aldermen:
This was a-groSs and nefarious job. ' Would the
Alembiri :for rhe City-say, that when this
diction was revived, there was any, want of jus-
tice ? The copsevience was, that there.were two
Quarter Sessions and t %stn. Grand Juries in
County at the slunk time, anti DO person knew
where his. suit was going They had taken
from the Bridge-house Estatel,4ool. a year to de
fray that-expellee. With respect to the New Pri-
son, it was ilopossible that any thing could. be
inadequate. to its purpose,. or worse plan-.
ned ; itideed, it could 'frit be condemned in
strong•er terms than were made use of by Mem-
bers of the Court of
.the City of London. Be-
cause they had already tooled away the 95,0001.
already grant ed--t hem; were they further to be
clove(' with 34,000/. to he taken out of tae pockets
of thoe. who were already chargeable with Irea'vy
county Ives for their own objects ?,One' of the
pleas. of the City was,. that they were boned to
maintain gaols for the county of Middlesex as well
as for the city of London. But they generally
told only somticlr °tithe case as suited theinseiveS.
They di i not tell the House, that with this
rations ruivileges and immunities were at-
, • taelled, to which the city adhered with great jea-
lousy. Whey elected their own Sheriffs, and they
• woidtj'not allow any of the. Magistrates of Mid-
dlesex to ex.amine their prisons. By-nominating
to the office. of Sheriff persons whom they
knew would not serve, they contrived to raise
flout the fines a considerable revenue.' In one
year lately 'they had. raised in this' way 9,2001.
. :For the last lour vears they had, raised '20,000/.
on an average 5,0001.,,a year. On these grounds,-..
he felt it his duty to move for the following ac-
conn.—A statement 'of the Aniount of the:ReventteA
of Abe City of London, as received by the Cham-
berlain of the City, .for'llie five...years endiug' the
31st December, 1817, aistinguiihing the particular
heads resaid

Sir WlLLiiot -CURTIS. maintained, that' the City.
Of London -did not come- forward on thi'S occasion
in forma pauperis—they were obliged to keep up
gaols, no tor themselves alone, but for every
county in 'Engrantl, in some degree, and for the
county of Middlesex. The. prisoners maintained
for orner people by the City of London, amounted
tb 250 a year ou an average-; they were ahliged
to maintain prisoners not belonging Co the City,
&ter they were convicted, at a heavy expense. It
was- on this account that their funs were not
adequate to the expense of completing this prison.
What the City of London now came forward to
a:.1: for this.prison- was sanctioned by the House
tlt- to elves. The City of'sLondon was ready.ar.d
to•show how they had expended the for-
mer "grant of 95,000/. The- Hon. 'Gentleman,
(Mr. H. Sumner) had said that the building of
this prison was a job—bnt, Without meaning any
thing offeosive, he would say, that the Honour--
able Gentleman had asserted"that which was not
the fact. ‘Vith respect to the limited' space on
Which. the' 'prison was built, Gentlemen ought to
know the value of ground in the city of. London
;-7-not.all inch of ground could be purchased with-
our putting two or three guineas on it : and then
it was not every situation that could be taken.
People might say, •--why not build,a gaol in this
or that place; but the moment a place was sug-
gested, hosts of objeotors came forward-0 don't
put a gaol near me ;.`wheti they fixed on another,
place, it yas just the saaib .thing; at last they
availed themselves Of the-breaking up of a large
brew_i,ouse. With respect to the accommo-
dations' zn .this —prison, which had given Ilse
to so .rutt.th ".observation, --he Wished to ob-
s&ve, :hat this was a- poor marii.s prison ; the
rich people wetit to the Bench, where, they
could- drink their Burgundy and Qhampaigne ;
tubbed 'their neighbours, -aud went

into a prison to come ,out white-washed, too
common a practice now,a-days. This was a pot.
man's prison, and the putting forty or fifty in one
day room could' not be considered any great
hardship. The lion. Baronet then 'entered into
a deterrce of ihenr•esents which had been made by.
the City. The Hon. Bironet afterwards noticed
the allusions which bail been made.to the under.-
standing between some of his elder brethern, in
the time of King ,Cha'rles,' and Parliament, the
result of which-was :he grant of tlie duty on coal.
'Lk would 'endeavour, if he lived,. ,to have this
name clianell:( he did not like to haave this funol.:
called the Orphans' :Fund: Tl;g City praye.!
the 'House to allow -them' to t‘ise • money for

this object •on the Orphans' Fund, and" tliey
Would trot trouble them any more. The Ho-_
noirrable Baronet then alluded to the pro-
visions given in the New Prison ;.the bread,
lig said, was as good as what was, used by any
family in England; he had formerly unintention-
ally mis-slated the- quantity of' meat allowed, 'it
was. four half pounds inst-eac of four pounds ; but
a pound of bread a day-, and four half pounds'of
meat.a week, for men who had forfeited their
liberty,
.antl .sonie their lives; Vt;As quite enough.
What was the iillowance to his Majesty's soldiers
and* sailors ? -.To give p.risOners more would only
be idling- them- full of gross humours, and 'all
that-=-(Laugh !)—The Hon. Baronet concluded
.with moving.as air Amendment, that there belaid
before the Home an. ACcount of the Produce. of
the several Duties.conStituting the Orphans' Fund
for the, last sig years, an Accorint of the. se, I
veral Charges and Debts outstanding, chargeable
on said yutio, and :of the- Application .of -the
93,000/. granted for the erection of a New Pri-
son in the City of -Landon.
Mr. 'F.;e:rjeatit Orssr.ow obsetlved, that the Hon.
Baronet had -endeavoured, by a' facetious speech,
to divert tire attention of the House front the sub-
ject before-it ; the Honourable Baronet, however,
in all that speech,. had not urged one argument in.

answer to the reasoning of the Honourable Gen-
tleman Whir brought forward the motion. The
duty on Coals in particular was a verY heavy Tax
gut. the very poorest of the people ; alit! before t•he
City of London could claim such.a Tak•for Such

_ .
objects as tl►e building, of-Prisons, they.otight to
skew how -they had expended their termer revenue.
He thought the honour of the City was implicated
in this affair. He really did not see on What ground
they could refuse atior.ding every it.rtorniation to
the [louse, and he. shonld therefore vote for the
motion.

Mr. Alderman WOOD contended, that the City
of London 'had not embezzled 'any part'of the
Bridge-house Estate—in-no one one instance had
they' made gifts of any part of that property.—
With respect to the 24,000/. 'said to, be vxnended
on an entertainment to the Liberators'of Europe,
this was for two .dinners: one of them to the
Duke of Wellington; cost 5000/.; and though he,
had opposed the war, he.had moved for that very
dinner. The Honourable (Jen tie man who brought
forward the 'motion, and the Hon. and Ltarned
Gentleman, did not.seem to, be aware, when they
spoke.of the misappiicatiorrof the proceeds of the
Bridge-house Estate, that the county to which
they
_belonged had _horrowedmoney frOtn that Es-
tate for the purpose of making a' Sewer in St.
George's Fields, an object of the greatest
for which, however, they could not other-
'vise obtain funds.—Anotl!.,er item of ex
pence on that Estate 'was for the erection" of
a Justice-hall in'Southwail, which was built at

Ike earnest request of the people of tite Borough,

. . . .. . . .....
who complained that stnali offences-.:.-re not pro-
stieutea on a•ccQunt..of Oie distance 'ot the Ses-
sions at Guildford. The expence cif this was
not 12001. ..tt was to be .r4.,collected, that the

Fridge at Blackfriats •Itful !wet) built out of t.%)e
bad been said Co bave b'en applied,

solely to the benefit or the City of London. The
building- of that
,Bridge,„ 'and other corrummica-
tidos, had increased the rental of Surrey 500,01/ot.
The City of London, too, it should be -recollected,
.paid i 1,500/. yea'rly towards the Orphans' Fund,
The City nosy only askedf6r 17,0001: from. this
.
fund ;, and, though they were not alarmed at
scrutiny, he did not think such a. request' as this
warranted the House in calling for. their ,a 6-.
counts. The Prison to which this was to be iap,.
plied Was principally for Middlesex Debtors.t4
There were i.how 400 prisoners in it who did 'hot
belong to the City of London ;. and 3;0001,.7 a..
year additional expellee was.iucurred by reoiting
them.. train Newgate. It had been said, that in
reti.-tr for their supporting the Gaols of 'the
Coiinty of Middlesex, the City had the finei paid
by those who declined the office of Sheriff; blit it
was to be remembered that these fines were* only
paid by Citizeni---r-no other persons in the Cohnty.
of Middlesex were liable" 'serve.that irtlise,which
was =tn experce of 2,5001. a year to any one, who
undertook it:
• Mr. BARCLAY contended Southwark received no"
benefit from the monies paid out, of the City'
BlaCkfriar'S-bridge, it it was a benefit to
Surrey, had also been -a benefit to London. As
to the money which had been borrOVed for—the
sewers in Se. George's-fields; it was oh- good se-
-
curity,-and,Would he repaid:* Many other sums,
issued from the same Fund, would, he feared,-ne-
ver be rethrneil. .1f the' City; was to apply in
forma Tauperi.t for. money to 'maintain its Own
prisons, when-London-bridge was to be rebuilt
they might expect tr similar apPlication.- The
-City now said, they had received money already
licitzt the Orphans' Fund fur the same purpose..
It :Was the duty of •the'flouse to see that this was

not unnecessarily increased. If, when they called
for the accounts, it appeared that the City,had
fairly expended its utopey—that_ it had been just
to its creditori as well as gen.:rous—it Would be
proper to relieve then; 'but if the money had
been squandered; he did-rtbt think he should do

his ilpiy if 'he_ supported tiiem in such a course.
Ete supported the motion. •

Sir J. SHAV" said, that when the City of Lon •
don purchased.from the Crown the Shrievalty of
.tlie County. of Middle Sex, they wete placed
,as to
this the sante situation 'as .-Ibe King stood as to
other counties. Yet hi those counties, the She-
ilas of which were appointed by the King, his
Majesty did not raaintaiu the -gaols. Why there-
fore should the.sole-bUrden of the Maintenance of

the gdois of Middlesex hre tbrowtron the City,
incase within this shire they initi.be en. poitessel

of that branch of the Royal Prerogative ? The
City had. acted liberally in making the improve-
went which was deemed necessary in their new
gaol, without obtaining any pledge froM Parlia-
ment ; but. he !toped the House would not now
desert them. 'He should support the amendment.

City would ,not
, it they had not
Mr. B. StlAyst said, that as to the maintenance
tbAulniftll)leuspeoxn,
Itillicein
of
Daveth tea gk
ea r°)l st
h°e
received some equivalent. . He did not think. it
fair that they should- receive money:out of a tund
to ‘vhich. all the home counties around had to
'contribute. . . • _ .

Mr. Alderman ATKINS supported the; amend,
mew.

Mr. N. CALVERT said_that he (lid not see any
reason why- the County. of Middlesex should not
he rated to the support of the. prisons in Lon-
don., to which. their-criminals were committed ;
hut there was no reason for the tax on- the adja-
cent- counties, known by the name of the Or 7
phans' Fund, being, applied to-that put poSe.
Mr. BENNET said, that the New Prison in
Whitecross-street, which bad bee'n spOken of, was
`one of the worst contrived and most discreditable
he had ever seen. The men in that prison were
separated---the• London debtors acrd. the Middle-
sex debtors ; bin the women were alknixecho-
gether. As to.'the state ,of Newgate, a Gentle-
man who recentlyhad•v visited it was of opinion,
that his account of it had not been over coloured.
His object was .to impress. on the Hans& that
these prisons- should be made schools of reform
and not schools' of crime; and that they should
not be made places of torthre,' by want of food,
and want of rest, and deprivation of health. He
supported the motion. . •
Mr. GRENFELL wished fo know, whether the
sum which the City demanded would cause the
continuance
.of the Tax on Coals to the Orphans'
Fund; longer than it otherwise would
Sir W. Corms said, 'the tax was to continue
till 1837; but even if the sum demanded were
granted, it would not'contintte longer, ,
- Mr. H. SUMNBR said, that this tai tVaS limited
to 1837, bur
-was to expire so much sooner as
the sums charged on it'shonld be discharged. The
grant no* demanded would, therefore, prolong
the duration of the Tax. He allowed a rate on
Middlesex, for the
.maintenance of the City Pri-
sons, might be justifiable, but he saw no 'reason
for charging the other neighbouring, counties who
supported Gaols of their own. The manner in
which the City had- first acquired the, controtil of
this fund was very suipicious, ds they gave a
bribe of 10001. to Mr. Speaker Trevor, who had
been obliged to put the question on his own ex,,-,-
pulsion,
The House divided, when the numbers.were7--
Fot thC Motion 24'
- Against it ..• •• I 1 •
Majority.. . —l3