The Sun.
London, England, 1829-05-05 00:00:00

troduce any measure to the consideration of Pailia-
ment.—( Hear, Lear.) Tit the correspondence of the
Noble Marquis with Dr. (7iirti,, the Noble Marquis
says, however, that he did not my Aentiments
on that subject, and that he was left in ignorance
of my intentions with rcvect to the Catholic Ques-
tion. Now I shell take leave to read an extract
from the correspondence of the N. ble Marquis,
which shews clearly he was informed of my inten-
tions, anti of the ground of my proceedings.—
( Hear, bear.)—ln one of the letters of the Noble
Marquis, dated the 24th of September, he observes
to me, in speaking of the Catholic body, its condi-
tion, and its hopes, " that he was convinced there
never was a period when the Catholic Claims could
be conceded with greater safety on the part of
the Protestants, or with better expectations of con-
tent and satisfaction on the part of the Catholics.
It was impossible not to perceive that the re-
sistance of the Bishops and others to some of
the most material points of concession, or their
party, might be easily got over, and he had
strong reason to believe that they would make
but a very feeble opposition even to a proposition
for the payment of the Catholic Clergy, where there
would probably be as little resistance on the part of
the laity to measures connected with the forty-shil-
ling freeholders?' To this letter I replied on the
28th of September. I informed the Noble Marquis
" that I had not had an opportunity of laying his
last letter, and one or two others upon the subject
of the Catholic question which preceded it, before
the King, because his Majesty was at that moment
unwell, and there was no immediate necessity for
communicating to him their contents; and that I
was the less inclined to do so at that moment, be-
cause they related to a subject of which his Majesty
never hears or speaks without being disturbed by it.
—(Hear, hear.)—l beg, however, to remind your
Lordship, that as an individual Member of Parlia-
ment, I never can introduce or support any measure
for the relief of the Roman Catholics until that mea-
sure is the proposition of the Government, and until,
by their means, sufficient securities are provided for
the security of the Protestant Throne, and the mainte-
nance of the rights and privileges of the chnrch of
England. As one of the King's servants, and long
in close connection with the Government, I sub-
scribed most cordially, and determined to abide by
the opinions embodied in the memorandum drawn
up by Mr. Canning in the year 1810. In the terms
of that memorandum, I say that the very first thing
to be done, and that which must precede all others,
is to reconcile the King's mind to an arrangement.
Until that is done, and until I obtain his Majesty's
consent, I should deceive your Lordship if I did not
say that on the subject I shall not talk at all.—
(Hear.)—l conceive also that I must give just and
reasonable grounds of suspicion to the Protestants
of England and to the Prelates of the Church, if I
were to discuss with ;the Prelates of the Catholic
Church, or the demagogues of the Association, a
plan for relieving the Catholics from their political
and religious disabilities.—(Hear.)—You see what
is necessary as a preliminary to the discasssion of
this question. There are arguments connected
with the subject quite distinct from those drawn
from a consideration of the present state of Ireland,
or of the temper of the Catholic body. Some per-
sons, it is true, think that the arguments drawn from
the condition of Ireland render the settlement of the
Catholic question quite clear and incontrovertible;
but do these persons think that nothing is to be done
to preserve the peace, or secure the loyalty of the
people of England ?" (This is really, as we could
collect, the terms of these letters ; but es his Grace
read them in a very low tone, and ftequently with
rapidity, we cannot be answerable for peculiarity of
expression.) I subsequently had occasion to write
to the Noble Marquis on the 11th of December,
with reference to the agitation which was going on
with increased activity in Ireland ; and here I beg
your Lordships to advert to the peculiar situation of
a lord Lieutenant of Ireland. :The Lord Lieutenant
of that country is armed with the most extensive
powers—powers greater than those possessed by
the subject of any Sovereign in Europe—but exe-
cuted under the controul, and by the instructions of
his Majesty's Government in this country, commu-
nicated through the responsible servants of the
Crown. It is the business of that Government to
communicate with the Lord Lieutenant upon the
subject of any acts which are improper or inconve-
nient to the course of the public service, or which
may be displeasing to his Majesty tinder the parti-
cular circumstances in which the Government may
then be placed. With this feeling, and with this
view of my duty, and of the situation of the Lord
Lieutenant, and of the objects which were to be at-
tained—l say, I think I should have been very much
to blame, if I had abstained from making the
Government of Ireland acquainted with the cir-
cumstances in which they departed from the
intentions of the Government. I did, there-
fore, communicate with the Noble Marquis
upon those subjects, and the result is contained
in the letter to which the Noble Marquis
has directed your Lordships' attention. But I ask,
was I not fully justified in the political view I took
of these questions, and of the conduct of those per-
sons whose names have been mentioned ? I say I do
not think I was very wrong in the judgment I formed
respecting these two Magistrates, for in a very
short time afterwards one of them was struck off
the Commission by the Lord Chancellor, and the
other removed a short time afterwards for conduct
not very different from that which I had condemned.
Now when that has been the case, I think it is a
little too much that I should be charged with
writing letters of accusation against the Noble Mar-
quis, when they were really intended to make
the Noble Marquis acquainted with the difficulties
he was throwing in the way of the final settle-
ment of the Catholic Question. After this cor-
respondence took place, it was, however, quite
obvious that the Noble Marquis and I could
not go on in our relative situations of Minis-
ter and Lord Lieutenant. I may have been
wrong—God knows I am liable to be wrong as
well as others ; but from the correspondence which
had taken place it was obvious that all confidence
between. the Noble Marquis and me was at an end.
I did not take the responsibility of the Noble Mar-
quis's removal, as he seems to suppose, upon my-
self. I waited until my colleagues came to town,
and finding, upon making them acquainted with
what had passed, that their opinions were in accord-
ance with mine, I took the pleasure of his Majesty
upon the subject, and obtained permission to relieve
the Noble Marquis from the Government of Ireland
—I say to relieve him from the government. The
Noble Marquis, in touching upon this part of the
subject, says that I did not attend his Majesty until
the 28th, and that the order for his removal did not
depend upon the letter to Dr. Curti,. The Noble
Marquis is right in both cases; I did not attend the
King on that day, and his dismissal did not depend upon
the letter toDr.Curtis, but upon the transactions which
are detailed in those letters which he contends were not
confidential. I attended his Majesty, however, on
the 27th, although I did not attend him on the 28th,
and I took his pleasure upon the question of the
Marquis's dismissal, and conveyed it to him on the
28th. Having stated thus much upon the subject I
there leave it; but I must add that I deprecate such
discussions. They can do no good. They may do
injury; and I am convinced from the result of this
day's discussion, that the Noble Marquis would have
been more satisfied with himself if he had not
brought the question forward.—(Hear.)—l come
nowto the subject of the Noble Marquis's removal.
The Noble Marquis was told he would be relieved,
and it was intended to leave him in the possession of
the Government until he would be relieved in a
manner agreeable to himself, and with advantage to
the Government. To that communication the
Noble Marquis replied by his dutiful assurance that
he was disposed to await the time, manner, and cir-
cumstances under which it might be his Majesty's
pleasure that relief should take place. My coin-
, munication was dated on the 28th of December;
the Noble Marquis's reply was dated on the 30th.
In the mean time, however, I received from
Dr. Curtis a letter, dated the 4th of December,