The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-27 00:00:00

I'IIN__STTN, LONDON

make en aberration as to the weight which had been placed on .
the evidence of Sir W. Jolliffe, that there was no doubt but that if
a railway were to pass through that district it might do good to
somebody, and the Committee would therefore have to throw over-
t retro all the evtttet.ce on this particular pond on both sides, espy.
wally as the r oach traffic on the Peterstield line was at present
uereroyed. ?Ir. Cockburn pursued the contrast between the evi
deuce for and against the traffic on the intei mediate districts on both
lines, showing that the traffic on the South- Wr stern line was far
superior to the other, and indeed between Godalming and Peterstie.d
there was no comparison. Godalming and Havant was common to
both, with the advantage of placing the former place six miles
nearer to London than it was on the atmospheric line. Chiches-
ter, which, next to Portsmouth, was the most imp, rtant place on
the line, was made 19 miles nearer on the Guiltord line than the
other to Hungerford-bridge. Mr. Cockburn then went through
the evidence as to the distances which had been stated by Mr.
Locke and Mr. Horne, and which we gave at the time, showing
the prevaling distance of the several places on the
line. The population on the two lines was as flee to
four in favour of the Guilford line; and therefore, with respect
to both population at.d distance, the point was quite in favour of
this line. There was an advantage, too, possessed by the South.
Western Company in the two stations which they possessed at
Vauxt•all and Hungerfordi bridge—the former already in existence,
and the Bill for are latter having already passed the House of
Commons—while the other side only had the one at London,
bridee. In addition to his, there was the facility possessed by
the former Company in toe ability to take goads out of the lighter and
place it upon the rails at Nine Elms, so that for timber and all ot!.er
heavy goods there would be an advantage which was riot possessed
by the other line, and if the other line hid the advantage of Dept-
ford-creek, there was, practical y and in reality, no benefit to the
atmospheric company, as the hoods could be conveyed to Nine
Elvis in one tide, so that no extra expense would be incurred.
With regard to passengers, Mr. Horne stated, that before any rail-
way was established, all the coaches had been removed to the
west-sod of the town, which showed that the tendency of the
traffic was to the west, and nut the east ; so that, looking a, th•
stations, the advantage was evidently in favour of the South.
Wearerii project. Further than this, it was a fact that the
Brighton Company were now about to apply more than 100,0001.
iu making a branch from New Cross to Hungetford bridge, in
older to avail themselves of the west-end terminus. The station
at Lonuon-bridge having • he Brighton, the Dover, and the Croydon
lines all funning to it, was exce,oingly crowded, and it would be
tnanitestly unwise to increase that inconvenience. The coolness
with which the South Western project was lo .ked upon by the
Portsmouth people he was quite ready to allow. It had been an
unpardonable offence in the South. Western Company to chase
Southampton instead of Portsmouth. There had always been a jea
lousy betwt en the two places, and he feared there always would be.
But with respect to the delay which had been alleged as taking place on
the line, it was proved that the Soute.Western tine was worked with
as much rapidity and punctuality as my other line in the country.
Then, as to fares, they had put in tables of fares of the other great
lines, and showed that the charges on those lines were the same as
those of the South-Western Company. The jealousy of feeling
should be tett eut of the question; and if he had shown thai one
line was shorter than the other, better for the intermediate
ui,tricts, and equally as good for Portsmouth itself, the others
we: e rninor circumstances, and he aid not think the Committee
would allow themselves to be prejuinc, d by any mere expresson of
popular feelit g. Then thi re was the question of expense and
engineering difficulties The gradients of the South. tti estern line
were far more favourable then on the other line. It, therefore, it
was necessary to snake either line a locomotive line, the advantage
was cire.rly in favour of the former, and if it was thought necessary
to make the line an atmospheric line, the South- Western Company
were quite ready to make theirs an atmospheric line. In the
event, however, of the atmospheric principle being inapplicable to a
long line, then the question of gradients became one well worthy of
serious considera ion. It was readily conceded that on a short line
the atmospheric principle might be very efficiently brought into
action as between Dublin and Dalkey. But on a long line the
whole of the eviutrice had gone to show that the difficulties
in working the principle were so great, and would in
volve such an immense expense to overcome them, that to all
practical purposes it would be totally inefficient. If, from the
moment hat they had overcome the vie inertia. of the mass they
hod to put into motion, there were no other calling to oppose than
these would be to its progress, he had e•ery reason to believe
that what was said by the other side would be tines but there were
such causes. The constantly opposing power of the increasing
density of the air in the tube after the first exhaustion would offer
such an obstacle as would in proportion to the increase in the

length of the tube impede the velocity of the train as at last to
bring it to a standstill. Mr. Hawkesley had by theory arrived at
a certain formula, which had been confirmed by the practical
experiments r:f Mr. Stephenson. Mr Alexander had put it on a
question of the credibility of witnesses. On the one side they had
Mr. Brunel, Mr. Hawkesley, Mr. Cubitt, arid Mr. Samuda;
and on the other they had Mr. Locke, Mr Bidder, Mr.
Hawkesley and Mr. Stephenson. Without additirnal experience,
who cou;d decide between them ? With respect to Mr. Samuda's
evidince, it was not to be questioned but that Mr. Samuda was a
gentleman of great ingenuity and scientific attainment, but in this
instance an interested and, therefore, a suspicious witness. With
respect to Mr. Brunel, this was just the sort of thing to seize
upon a mind I,ke his, which was always ready to grasp at a diffi •
culty which was to be overcome, and he would be ready, there
was no doubt, to undertake anything simply for the difficulty of itself
if for no other. Then as to Mr. Cubitt, he was precisely the wit-
ness for 1,4 n ; and Mr. Cubitt had, with great prurience,
referred laying down his line Letwezn Epsom and Croydon until he
had laid down his line between London and Croydon, and he would
iatt lay down that line till all these Bills, or as many of them as
should he fortunate enough to get through the House of Commons,
got into the House of Lords. Mr. Cubitt was a prudent man. It
WAS phiiily impossible for ,ny man to say whether this princip e
ever could be brought into action or not, and the question was
whether a line should be adopted which could be worked by the

atmospheric principle alone, or whether they should take a line

which, if that principle failed, could be worked as a locomotive line.
The St.uth- Western line had, therefore, a scientific advantage.
They touched upon a better line of country, and reached the several
positions ::t shorter distances, and at less expense, both in the
tortnation and in the working There was also great uncertainty
a, to the passage of the trains, and an inflexibility about the sys-
trm which w. u.il prevent the atmospheric principle from supplying
the wants of the putnic, and they were involved in the incontist
ency of having the less powerful apparatus between London and
Epsom, where the traffic was the greatest, and especially during
the rare.. it, spring and autumn. and the mote powerful apparatus
on that portion of the tine where the traffic was least; so that
the:, In opostil to bring the whole of the trattic of the Portsmouth,
line on to the Epsom line, whicn was already overworked. Mr.
Cockburn then went through the estimates of expense given in
tvh;ente, to show the amaunt in favour of the South-Western
hie, and after throwing out a suggestion for a mutual formation of
the !me between Chichester to Portsmouth, concluded his ob-
servations by stating that the formation of the atmospheric line
would offer no competition for the public advantage of Portsmouth,
but would entirely and unnecessarily injure the South. Western
Company. This being a better line in every respect, he trusted
the ommittee would give it a preference.
The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow,

returns, showieg that 40,000 people would be benefited by the
Wandsworth Extension. Atter some furtier observations, the
Learned Counsel cone tided by calling on the Committee to declare
the preamble of the hill proved.
The room was then cleared fur deliberatim, and after the lapse
of a few minutes, strangers were admitted, whereupon
T. e CHAIRMAN (addressing Mr Hill) sad the Committee are
unanimously of opinion that the preamble of the Bill has not been
proved.

The Committee adjourned at five o'clock.

GRuLTP 1.

LINCOLN AND CAMBRIDGE RAILWAY.

The Committee at to-day at twelve o'elsek.

Mr. Joseph Machon, of Pinkston, Derbyshire, dealer in coals,
was the first witness called. The coal •fietdt in that neighbourhood
are most xtensive, and equal to supply any demand ; Is well acquainted
with the ♦arious qualities of coals ; is of (pinion that the Dukes-
mi re and Winderworthmere coal was full; equal to the Durham,
and has no doubt but if this line were made the coals from these two
places would be consumed very extensively. Fhe cost ofWinderworth-
me re and Dukesmere cool at the pit's mouth was ss. fid. per ton. It
could ne put on the railway at Clay's-cross at 5s per ton extra. The
distance from Clay's-cross to Rugby was seventy miles, and from
that, by the London and Birmingham Railway, was eighty-two
miles, making in all 152 miles.
The CilklßMAN—That has nothing to do with the Cambridge and
Lincoln Line.

Mr Lue—The London and York Company say they can supply
coals from the same places at a cheaper rate; we say they evinot,
for we came in competit.on with them, and we want to show we can
buy those coals much cheaper. The London arid York have also
taken crt dit for an increase of 190,000'. per annum by coal traffic
alone ; but we say they can receive no such sum. for we will
afford greater facilities for transit.
The witness then proceeded to say that the distance he- had
mi taloned of 152 miles would cost 3s. 40. per ton per mile for the
transit of coals, which would bring the price to 9s. 6d., or to
l4weisre6lds.. tIo, h;e rchtmheenthanertei,,n,aLso2ii,d.o6nd.
for
delivery,usive of city dues, which exclusive
sod id. per ton
for the use of waggons, which would bring the price up to 19s. to
all charges. The Wallsend
themnd publics
taey per on,
coalt weirnecludinnegar
the coal-fields already
mentioned, and 166 miles from London ; the price in Lon-
don of these cows to the public, including all charges, would
be 20s. ld. per ton. If the Silkston and Peterborough line be
made, the distance of the town from the coal-fields would be 93
miles. The coals could be sold in that town at 11v. 10ti., includ
big all charges. St .mford would be 81 miles by railway, and the
coal could be sold there at I Is. The Erewash Valley coal-fields
were very extensive, and equal to any demand; they were situate
about nine miles frcm the Midland, near Derby. A Bill has
passed the House of Commons granting a line called the Erewash
Valley, which joined the Midland; the Erewash coal was as often
sold in London as the Durham coal ; the distance of the Erewash
from London was 131 miles, and that coal could be sold in Lon-
don at 18s. 3d., including all charges ; the same coal could be sold at
Stamford at 9s. 6d., and at Peterborough at 10s. 3d. ; the distance
of the first was 60 miles, and the latter 73 miles from the Erewash
Valey. fie d. Is quite certain that the London and York could
receive no such income as 290,0001. a year from coal traffic alone.
Mr. John Woodhouse, coal-viewer, was the next witness. His
depositions were unimportant, being met ely corroborative of that of
Mr. Machon.

Mr. Irish deposed that he had been employed as a traffic taker
for the w,ol trade, and that a great quantity of wool was brought to
London from Yorkshire, Leicestershire, Lancashire, &c., and the
expense of the transit of which would be greatly diminished if this
line were made.

Mr. J. P. Carpenter gave evidence as to the amount of road
'raffle by coach, which bore out the testimony of Mr. Parks.

The CH•IQYAN here stated that the Committee would sit until
five o'clock, so that if Mr. Hildyard should not be present, Mr.
Lee, or some other counsel should be prepared to go on, as the
Committee would not adjourn before that hour.
Mr. LEE said he hoped to be able to close his case before that
hour.

Mr. Pinch, of Tpswich, was then called, but was not examined.
Mr. George Leather, C.E., deposed that he was well acquainted
with the course of the Witham and the proposed loup railway.
He deposed as to the height of the different bridges, and the extent
of space between the extremities of the arches, and the surface of
the water at the different heights of the tide, and of the water in
the canal above the different locks, in order to show the height
at which it was proposed to place the rails above the water surface.
Two other witnesses having been called, one of whom gave tes-
:imony as to the population of certain districts,
Mr. tiILIALAD said he was happy to announce that the case for
the Cambridge and Lincoln scheme had closed.
The Committee then adjourned at half-past five.