The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-15 00:00:00

LOAN SOCIETIES BILL.

This Bill passed through Committee, and was read a: third
time.

SCOTCH POOR-LAW.

Mr. WA KLEY, seeing the flight Hon. Baronet the Secre-
tary of State for the Home Department in the House, wished
to know when the Scotch Poor-law Bill --

Sir J. GRAHAM said he would answer the question if the
Hon. Member would tell him what time the previous business
would occepy.

HIGHWAY RATES BILL.

---
This Bid went through Committee, and was ordered to be
read a third time to-morrow.
PAUPER LUNATICS ASYLUM BILL.
On the motion that the House go into Committee on this
Bill,

DUNCOM BE objected to any further progress of this
Bill until the amendments which had been, or which it was
proposed to introduce into the Bill, had been printed and
handed to the Members.
Mr. WAKLEY also objected to proceeding with the Bill,
and said that it would only take the printers four, or at must
six hours, to supply copies to the Members.
Mr. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from a person
named John Miller, of Camden Town, tomplaining of unjust
and oppre,sive treatment.
Lord DUNCAN said that as it was evident that considerable
discussion would en-ue on the Bill before the House, it would
he impossible to take the Scotch Poor-law Bill to-day, and he
wished to know what the Government intended I. do ?
S:r JA :NIES GRAHAM said that he would rte when the
Bill would te taken at five o'clock to-day.
The House then went into Committee, and the two first
clauses were passed.

On the proposition of the third clause,
Mr. T. DUN COMBE said that this clause had b Ater be
postponed until they had got the returns from the inspectors in
lunacy of the cost of visiting the several houses and their state ;
but this was a part of the plan of keeping the House in the dark.
Lord ASEILEY said that the only return not before the
House was that of the amount paid to each commissioner.
Sir C. NAPIER said that before he received his half-pay
he was obliged to make a declaration, and he did not see why
these gentlemen should not be subjected to the same test
before they received their salaries.
Mr. WAII BURTON saw no use in the declaration.
Lord ASHLEY said that the treasurer's accounts were a
sufficient guarantee of the rectitude of the payments, and for
the travelling expenses there was also sufficient evidence.
Mr. T. DUNCOM BE then moved that the clause be post-
poned. They ought to have paid commissioners, responsible to
the Government and the country, and not men who were part
amateurs and part professional, and who were responsible to
nobody. In the petitions presented the other day by his
Noble Friend, it was positively stated that there was no means
of ascertaining what had been done. Mr. Percival had not
complained of the Commissioners, but there had been great
complaint from those who had suffered ; and in Mr. Pater-
noster's case there was a great injustice committed, and
the result was always against the prisoner. '[he
person complaining had no chance whatever of redress.
Before they passed this clause, which made the Commission
permanent, they ought to have evidence that the Commis-
sioners had hitherto done their duty. He asserted that they
had not. Ile thought they ought to see if they could not have
a better Commission formed than at present existed. He would
not press his motion, for the postponment of the clause, but
would call upon the Chairman to read the clause at length.
Mr. V. SMITH defended the conduct of the Commissioners
generally, and especially with respect to the case of Mr.
Percival.
Mr. CHRISTIE trusted the Noble Lord would not only be
induced to reconsider the present clause, but the effect of the
Bill altogether. He was sorry that his Hon. Friend the Mem-
ber for Finsbury had withdrawn his motion for postponing the
clause.
Mr. WAKLEY felt convinced that the present Commission
would never work well.—( Hear, hear.) He objected
even to three Commissioners, believing that ene Com-
missioner, who should lie responsible to the Home•office
for his actions would do more good than three or even eleven
Commissioners, of which the present Commission was formed.
He thought that amateur Commissioners could never do that
good for the public that one properly paid Commissioner could
do. It had been said that insanity was
a purely mental
malady ; now he asserted that in nine cases out
of ten it arose from disease. Therei was no cast. of insanity
without structural derangem_en lie trusted that the Noble
Lori would reconsider the
i clause with reference to the Com-
missioners, as he thought t
_might be framed in a manner that
would operate far more beneficially for the public.
Sir C. NAPIER hoped the Noble Lo would reconsider
the clause. He considered that an unpaid Board was not so

good as a paid one.
Lord ASHLEY denied that unpaid Commissioners were not
so competent to perform their duties as paid ones. For him-
self, he would say that when he entered the Commission, he
did so with a determination to do his duty, and he
considered himself as responsible for the performance of those
duties as if he he had been paid a hundred guineas a visit.
As to the statement of the High Member for Finsbury, that
one Commissioner would be sufficient, he asserted, without fear
of contradiction, that it would be impossible for one individual
to perform the onerous duties.
Mr. W A BU R TON agreed with the Hon. Member for
Finsbury, that paid Commissioners were better than unpaid
ones; but, at the same time, he thought there should be un-
paid gentlemen connected with fortunes,
Commission, who would
represent persons of moderate who were afflicted
with insanity.
Mr. HAWES preferred a mixed Board to one constituted
of paid or of unpaid Commissioners alone,
Sir .1. GRAHAM was anxious that the Commissioners
named in the cause should be continued in the Commission.
The CHAIRMAN then proceeded to read the clause, pro-
posing that Lord Ashley and several other gentlemen should
form the Commission, when
Mr. T. DUNCONII3E rose and said it was his intention to
take the sense of the House upon an amendment which he should
propose, to the effect that those gentlemen whom he called the
amateur Commissioners should be excluded from the Com-

mission.
Mr. V. SMITH opposed the amendment, arid contended that
great advantage resulted to the public from the Commission
being composed in part of unpaid, or, as the Hon. Member for
Finsbury caileit them, amateur Commissioners. They acted
as a sort of check upon the paid Commissioners, and caused
them to perffirm their duties with fidelity.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM would oppose the amendment of
the Hon. Member for Finsbury on public grounds. If what