The Sun.
London, England, 1827-03-06 00:00:00

People ought to entertain to a Constitutional Monarch, The
pbrsonal virtues of a Sovereign could be no apology for a ser-
vility of feeling in the itibjects. But the King's Address—the,
whole transaction spoke no diffidence on the part of Royalty
in the allegiance of the Roman Catholics of Ireland. On
the contrary, the expressions to the public were those of
satisfaction at the dutiful attachment which his Majesty re-
ceived from his subjects of every class in Ireland. This.
conduct of the Sovereign had naturally made a deep impression
upon the hearts of the people of Ireland. No sophistry could ex-
plain it away. It had induced the Catholics to hope, that the
trust which his Majesty had reposed in them was to be followed
by some relaxation of the statutes that oppressed them. And in
order to make assurance doubly sure, they were, told—at a time
too, be it observed, when it was acknowledged that they were
good and loyal subjects—that they must not be admitted to au
equal participation in the rights and privileges of the Constitution.
(Hear, hear.) He asserted again and again, that if this proscrip-
tion was continued; if the Government intended to act under the
delusion which had hitherto clouded its every act towards the
Roman Catholic population of Ireland, the acts charged against
the Sheila, the O'Connels, and the other leaders of the Catholic
Body in that country, would amount to nothing, compared to the
feelings which would be excited by again denying to so large a body
of persons those rights and privileges to which they felt themselves
so fully and justly entitled, and in the hope to obtain which, they
again found themselves deluded.—(Hear, bear.)—But it was the
business of Parliament to prevent the arrival of such a crisis ;
it was their duty to provide for' the union, the happiness, and
the prosperity of the United Empire, by removing those disquali-
fications which disturbed its quiet, and endangered its security.—,
(Cheers.) He was almost ashamed to say any more upon this
subject ; but, if they looked to the page of Irish History, he meant
not to the history of the present day, but of 1798 ; and, unless
their minds were made up to a recurrence of the miseries of that
period, they must accede to some such measure as that which he
was then about to submit to them.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—There
Were but two paths left them to pursue. Indeed, he might say in
the language of the poet— . . _ . .

"Hi; locus est, partes übi se via findit in ambas.
Dextera quw ditis magni sub mwnia tendit;
Rae Elysium nobis ; at lwva malorum
Exercet pcenas, et ad impia Tartars mittit."---(Cheers.)
But he hoped that the House would feel inclined to take the right
path ; he trusted they would feel inclined to have their "goodness
glorified"—that they cherish in their minds the justice as well as
the necessity of redressing the long-suffered wrongs of their fel-
low-subjects, and thus contribute to the happiness and security of
the community at large--(Cheers.)—He had nothing further to
add, and should therefore move, " That this House deeply felt im-
pressed with the necessity of taking into its consideration the pre-
tent laws, inflicting penalties and disabilities upon their Rowan
Catholic fellow-subjects, with a view to removing them."

Lord MORP ETH rose to second the motion. He
hoped that, even at this late period, Parliament would be found
ready to deal out equal justice to their oppressed Catholic fellow-
subjects.—(Hear hear, hear!)—Was it not intolerable that so
large a portion of the population of these realms should, without
any act or fault of their own. be deprived of the greatest privileges
and advantages of the Constitution which their more fortunate
Protestant brethren had the happiness of enjoying ?—(Hear !)._
Was it not natural that persons so disqualified, without any fault
of their own, should resent their disqualifications ?—(llear !)___
That irritation, arising from this cause, at present existed, and
that, too, to an alarming extent, in Ireland, he must be a bold
Man who would pretend to deny.—(Hear.)—The Hon. Baronet,
in moving his Resolution, had drawn a feeling picture of the
state of the Irish Catholics.—(Hear, hear, hear !)--It was not
Ids intention to add to the colouring of that picture, it was
sufficiently strong and clear. It carried upon • the face of
it that truth which must come home to the mind of every
man open to conviction.—(Cheering.)—But he would call
for the concurring testimony of every Gentleman at all acquainted
with Ireland, when he stated that the Roman Catholic popfilation
of Ireland were, at the present moment, roused to a man upon
this question.—(Hear, hear.)—He agreed with those Hon. Gen-
tlemen who stated that much had been done for the Catholics of
Ireland. But it was the natural feeling and impulse of the hu-
rt:mu mind, that gratitude was not very great where the benefit
expected was not complete--(Hear, hear)—but that gratitude was
altogether done away with when the grievance under which the '
Complaining party laboured was warranted neither by necessity or
Justice.—(hear, hear.)—Under such circumstances, it was the
intention, as it was the duty, of the Roman Catholic body, not
to relax in their endeavours to obtain that complete redress to
Which they were entitled.—(Hear, hear.)—Let it not be supposed
that he wished to sanction or encourage any undue or improper at-
tentrita to obtain those rights ; on the contrary, his wish, as well'
as
his hope, was, that those rights would be conceded by the sound
and dignified policy of the BritisliAdministration.—(Hear.)—Let
tue°4ool( to recent events--let them consider what has been passing
upon the Continent, and then take into their consideration the state
oflreland.--(Hear, hear. )-_He alluded not to any false reports—he
adverted not to any exaggerated statements—he took things ase
toy were. It might not be impossible that we should have again
in cailfor the aid of the Protestants as well in Catholic Spain as
Catholic Portugal
well ; we might
upon the plain's of Salamanca, as before the walls of Bade-
oe ; and with
Jp,orvices,
Mien
what grace, let him ask, could they call for those
rewarded they
had found that their former exertions were
Senate?` Chitrictions in the service and disqualifications in the
i(ers).—With what spirit could any. Roman Catho-
.lc go forth in defence of his country, when he felt that he must
return home the same degraded and disqualified being which his
tors had been, and this for no fault of his, but only because
he adhered to the faith professed by those ancestors ?—(Hear,hear,
hear.)—The main question for the consideration of the House
was this, were those who came determined to negative the motion
that night content with the present state of things in Ireland?—
(Cheers.)—And if not, were they prepared to submit to the
House any substitute by
which the tranquillity of Ireland could
be secured ?__(Hear, hear, hear.)—Unless they acceded to this
measure, or came providedld be • with an effective substitute for it, it
ylvou in vain to rail at the conduct of the Priests and Law-
,and other leaders of the Catholics in that country.—(Hear,
hear.)—What he and those who thought with him looked for,
was the safety of the empire and the security of their descendants.
(Cheers, ),—The
Roman Catholics,whose reluctance to take the oath
. excluded them from seats in that House, were equally excluded
Pcto another ground namely, because they were considered
tneanable of observing the obligations of an oath.—(Hear, hear,
ilear. 1.,
)---,-.e was as zealous as any man in his wish to support
the Established Church ; but he did not feel that that Church
required those outward bulwarks to support it. Let the Jesuit,
11.68 e dark and devious course required such assistance, have it
extended to him ; let the Apostolicals of Spain seek to support
their wretched doctrines by policy such as this ; but let not the
Church of England __a Church established upon the firm basis of
truth and justice.—seek to surround itself with such weak and
hollow propa.—(
toleratio Hear.)—Let her, on the contrary, show that
a and liberality which belonged to her as a Christian
Esiz tablishment.—(Hear, hear.)—They had been told that this
e,:lore would not remove the distresses which existed in Ireland
that it would not create capital—that it would not promote
tr
distress.
• He was aware that it would not at once remove those
s"exiies; but that was not the question. The question was,
±hot' far it would remove those discontents, and irritations, and
Zeao:
.burnings, which were at present caused by religious dissen-
that country.—( Hear, hear. )—Some gentlemen had found
tfaiwuith the Catholic Clergy, and some had declaimed against
were conductn of the Catholic Leaders; but if these complaints
wfnounded, why not adopt a measure which would take
wthe
at
re':n from these leaders.—(Hear, hear. )—The country
might be callt engaged in support of Catholic Portugal ; they
ciliate and unit to interfere with Catholic Spain ; why not con-
Protestants of e the, Catholics of Ireland with the Catholics and
Member) had
he felt
Lngland.—(Cheers.)—He, though a young
at some length upon this question, because
Claims of warmly and sincerely
b sti of tri,th and
. a . the Cathor • upon it —(Hear, hear.)—The
Justice.—(Hear,
succeed, as they were founded on the
H tion St? .Ll'lepin next Air. G. DA 1 , •---..-(liear, hear.)
was not hia inten
appeals of the addressed the House. It
y generally to the able and eloquent
but he must ton. Baronet in favour of the Roman Catholics
Baronet's argnautna'eenstre observations upon one or two of the Hon.
that the CathTo • The Hon. Baronet was mistaken in stating
Limerick, hiiteefacwtere dealt with in violation of the Treaty of
Terence whatever t° Was, that the Treaty 'of Limerick had no re-
joyrnent of the religioP°litical rights ; it only provided for the en-
that Treaty they could.
innand property of the Catholics, and without
''Wee another Act, of ivir exercise their religion at all. There
milder lam, upon this subject, which was of a
n--"ure, requiri
this had as little ref ng the oath of allegiance to be taken; but
catholieB
as
the
etherence to the political rights of the Roman
tt_ate of Ireland woul7;magi
Any person unacquainted with the real
rut such
the RO Tie, from the speeches made in that
such
tholan Catholics were in a state of bondage ;
Was not
and action in
ev e fact—they enjoyed the liberty of speech
orethren.-._(Lotai cry. Way in common with their Protestant
would be led t cries of ‘‘ hear, hear," and a laugh.)—One
mein was a ° think, too, that the disqualification as to Parlia-
- e disturb matter which met him at every turn, which tortured
an 1
ed his '
‘,,.,,,i
not
the
Poi imagination. It was not, however, so ; this
bc'dy of the point which formed the bond of union between the
Boman
Catholics a.nd the Aristocracy of the country;

that Union was formed and cemented by the Catholic Priesthood.
-.(Hear, hear !)—'They were the bond of union ; and not the
sufferings, the privations, the disabilities, and the thousand other
matters of which so much had 'been said and repeated in that
House. The habit of the 'Priests was to call upon their congre-
gations to adhere to the religion of their forefathers, and they
were in the constant habit of reviling the established religion of
the country—(Hear, hear !)--and calumniating its Ministers.
The Hon. Member proceeded • td read a long extract from Le-
land's History of Ireland, for the purpose of showing the opi-
nions entertained with respect to the motives and objects of the
Catholic Priests, as well as Laity. What, he asked, was the
cause of the war in which Oliver Cromwell was engaged ? It
was pretended to be for the restoration of the Royal Family, but
it was, in reality, for the restoration of the Roman Catholic Re-
ligion; and in the reign of James the Second the leading Pro-
testants were pointed out and attainted by name.—(Hear, hear,
hear !)—The overturning of the Protestant Religion was the great
object aimed at by the Catholics. They always invoked hosti-
lity to-the Protestant Church. They gloried—they triumphed—
in the prospect of the downfall of that Church, and spoke with
exultation of the approach of the danger which might be appre-
hended from the invention of the steam-boats to Ireland.—(Hear!)
—What was the result of all this ? The natural result was
the animosity and disorganization which had prevailed in Ireland.
But the worst part of the disorganization which had lately taken
place was still to be described. A new body had lately sprung up
in the political concerns of the country. The Roman Catholic
Clergy who had before confined themselves to the spiritual inte-
rests of their flocks, had lately interfered in political matters, and
wielded a despotic authority all over the country. A body, of
men, unknown to the Constitution—not recognised by the laws of
the land, and educated and brought up in hostility to the Protes-
tant Establishment—had now got the whole of the political power
of Ireland into their hands ; and it was hardly possibly to calcu-
late how much the natural bond between landlord and tenant had
been weakened by this mischievous influence. He had in his
hands incontrovertible proofs that such was the manner in which
the Roman Catholic Clergy had used their power. The docu-
ments to which he alluded related to the County of Waterford
Election ; and when he had examined them, he declared that they
exhibited the existence of such a power and influence, exercised
by the Priests over the Roman Catholic population of Ireland, as
lie had never before known ; and he would not do his duty to the
people of England, unless he laid before them some of the
proofs of that influence of the Catholic Priests of Ireland
over their flocks, the depth of which it would not
he easy for English Protestants to fathom. First, then,
he called the attention of the House to an Address
from his tenants to the Lord Waterford, some time before the
election—the voluntary Address of his Catholic tenants ; for his
Lordship knew nothing whatever about it, until the deputation
came to him to present it. The persons who signed the Address
stated, " that it was with the strongest feelings of regret that
they had heard it represented that his Lordship was an enemy to
their holy religion ; that they did not believe such representation•
and had never known any instance in which his Lordship had
given any preference to Protestants, at the expence of Catholics ;
that his Lordship had always conducted himself with great im-
partiality ; that they would be sorry to suffer any insidious prac-
tices to separate them from their landlord ; that they knew their
own comforts, and would not fail their landlord when the day of
trial came." This Address hay fi been signed by MO Catholic
tenants. Now, he would ask, whether any language could
have better expressed the feelings of a grateful and happy ten-
nantry ? What was the result ? Why, that in the space of
two short months after this Address was presented, the
greater part of these 510 tenants voted against their land-
lord..—(Hear, hear.)—This was monstrous treachery, and
when the Addressers were reproached with it, they endeavoured
tb excuse themselves by saying, that they had been compelled
to vote as they did, as they could not contend against the de-
nunciations of their Priests.---(Hear.)—To shew the way in
which these people had been practised upon by the priests, he
would beg leave to call the attention of the House to the substance
of some affidavits concerning this matter. It was sworn that
a priest (Michael Tobin, we think he stated) would neither hear
the confessions of those who -voted for such candidates as opposed
the Catholic Claims, nor give them extreme unction, but would
suffer them to ,die like beasts.—(Hear, hear! and a laugh.)—ln
another affidavit, a priest at Dungarvon had said that he would
refuse the rites and benefits of the Roman Catholic Church to
those who voted for such as were opposed to the Roman Catholic
Claims; another priest had stated to his flock, after service, that
he had a few words to say to them, and these were to beware of
the gates of hell, otherwise the gates of Curraghmore (a seat of
the Marquis of Waterford), which were now open for them. Ano-
ther Priest threatened his flock with all the vengeance of the
Church unless they voted for Mr. V. Stuart; and a witness
swore, that on attending a chapel in that county, on the 15th of
Match, previous to the election, he heard the priest say, that if
they voted for those who opposed the Catholic Claims, he would
neither confess them, admit them to the benefit of the Jubilee, nor
attend them on their death-beds. Another priest, it was wit-
nessed, had stated to his flock, that all the priests had orders
from their bishops to say, that no Catholics ought to vote for
Lord G. Beresford, or if they did, they would go to the
He might state similar facts against sixteen more Priests, but what
be had said sufficiently showed the manner in which they had pro-
ceeded. He had heard, with the utmost astonishment, some re-
marks made by the Learned Attorney-General opposite (Plunkett),
relative to the interference of the Clergy of the Protestant Esta-
blished Church in elections. The Protestant Established Clergy
had a right to interfere in some measure, because they themselves
had freeholds and votes ; but they had not certainly interfered in
the manner to which the Catholic Clergy had resorted. The
Roman Catholic Priesthood were looking for Catholic supremacy
in Ireland ; and unless the evil should be carefully guarded against,
the Protestants would be put down and a Roman Catholic supre-
macy established.—(Hear. )
Mr. SPRING RICE rose (at the same time with
Mr. Villiers Stuart, but the latter gave way), and said,. the
Hon. Baronet who had introduced the subject, and the Noble
Lord who had seconded his motion, had thrown out a challenge
to his Hon. Friend opposite (Mr. Dawson) and those who con-
curred with him, and called upon them, if they did not choose
to agree to the motion, to state precisely what was the alternative
which they contemplated. His Hon. Friend did not appear at
all disposed to be clear on that point, and appeared to be afraid
to exhibit the horrid lineaments of the only other alternative that
remained. It would be, to recall the worst times of all countries,
and. the bad times of that worst governed of all countries,, Ireland.
—lt bad been well suggested by the Hon. Baronet and the Noble
Lord near him, that the state of Ireland was, at present, not only
calamitous but dangerous. There were but two courses to be
adopted—either to grant the Roman Catholic claims or to put an
end. to Catholic opposition. If they persisted in refusing to grant
the Roman Catholic claims, the only other alternative was, to
suppress and subdue the Catholics. He would draw the atten-
tion of the House to the Question relating to the 40s. freeholders,
and endeavour to trace the origin of the disassociation between the
landlords and tenants. The Hon. Gentleman contended that it
originated at Waterford, but he (Mr. S. Rice) maintained that it
was much older, although it took place on the eve of a general
election. It was not in 1827, and in the county of Waterford,
but it had originated with the friends and predecessors of the Hon.
Gentleman in the county of Londonderry. It was an appeal against
the landlord's by the Protestant delegates of Dungannon to the
Protestant Electors of Ireland, and it called upon them on the
ground of duty towards themselves and Heaven. He (Mr. S.
Rice) did not apprehend that the Hon. Gentleman would assert
that a tenant was hound, under all circumstances, to act under
the directions of his landlord ; and if there ever were an exception,
calling upon the Roman Catholic Clergy and laity to abandon
every thing but character, it was in the late case. The poorer
classes might not expect or feel a direct benefit from Emancipa-
tion ; but its spirit, like the air, would influence them ; and if a
Constitutional reproach were fixed upon the Nobility, it descended
in degree to the lowest grade. He was ready to put the whole
question upon this point ; had any man ever met a Catholic pea_
san. of mature years who did not know that there was a distinc-
tion in the law between Catholics and Protestants? With regard
to the conduct of the Members of the Association, he was not
called upon to defend it ; but he would ask of those who objected
to the Association on the score of its violence, whether they were
willing to abide by this test; and whether, if the Association
were tranquil, they would consent to Emancipation? If the Asso-
ciation ceased to exist, and Mr. O'Connell employed himself at the
Bar, and Mr. Shiel confined himself also to his profession, would
the Hon. Gentleman, as an opponent of Emancipation, acquiesce
in what was now required? If he would, then he had a good
right to quarrel with the Roman Catholic leaders ; but, if not, he
only used an argument which was a make-weight in the scale
(the House exhibiting some signs of impatience, the Speaker was
obliged to call it to order, and Mr. S. Rice paused until order
was restored. )_Honourable Gentlemen approached this ques-
tion with different views. come looked upon it as a poli-
tical struggle ; but it was to be decided on higher prin-
ciples, and to be weighed and measured by another stan-
dard. It was not a question of a political power that ought to
govern the the discretion of the House. It was now the eleventh
1
hour, and he would appeal to the opponents of concession as to
the time already lost ; he would inquire of friend or enemy, whe-
ther it was possible now, by a combination of political wisdom or
legislative authority, to regain the ground lost within the two last

years. Some parties or other were responsible, and he regretted
it the more, because they were aware of the nsagnitude of the good
and evil. At the Union; the Irish had been told to trust their
lives, properties, and hopes, to a British Parliament.; and they
might depend upon it, when a general feeling was expressed, the
English people had too much generosity to allow it to be over-
borne by numbers. There was a great' number of Members pre-
sent now for the first time, and they ought to hesitate before they
connected themselves with a cause against which the great body
of the Irish people were united. It was not a question of a mere
sugar island, but of a mighty people on the other side of a narrow
channel ; it was a question of Irish interest and British connexion,
and he looked to the result with anxiety, inasmuch as, if it were
decided in the negative, it would entail misery upon Ireland.—
The Honourable Member concluded by thanking the House for
having shewn him so much indulgent patience.
Mr. V. STUART—It was not his intention to de-
tain the House by going at length into the discussion of the general
merits of the Catholic Question ; but to-night there were features
—features of a modern character—to which he felt himself en-
titled to allude—features which had been pointed out and criticised
by the enemies of Catholic Emancipation, as affording grave
reasons for opposition, but on which he, on the contrary, would
rely as grounds for concession. He referred to the conduct of
the freeholders, and to the interference of the Catholic Clergy, at
the late general election in Ireland. He would first speak of the
body of men which he had mentioned last in order—men,
whose unostentatious piety, and zealous discharge of their profes-
sional duties, where unsurpassed by the Clergy of any other per-
suasion—(Hear, hear !)—but who, unhappily, had been the ob-
jects of as much'uninerited obloquy as, he would venture to say,
party spirit, even in Ireland, had ever bespattered the victims of
its malice. God forbid that his motives, in defending the Catholic
Clergy, should for a moment be misunderstood : God forbid it
should be supposed that he was about to vindicate the interference
of Churchmen in temporal affairs: So much the contrary, that
he protested he knew no language strong enough' to express his
condemnation of such a practice ; but owing its origin to the
crabbed and crooked policy of the very men who were foremost to
cry out against it, it excited in him no surprise, but souse re-
gret that the Catholic Clergy, from the peculiar hardship of
the situation in which they were placed, were forced, in
self-defence, to follow the example set them by many of
their Protestant brethren, without any of their excuses and
palliations. (Much cheering.) He repeated, that after all, they
had bet followed the example set them by others ; for he
should be glad to know the occasion when the Clergy of
England had been slack in exerting themselves politically. In
reference to the conduct of the Priesthood at the County of
Waterford Election, he would state to the House' what occurred.
ror some months previous to the election instructions were given
by the Clergy to the Freeholders, as to the manner in which they
were to discharge their duties at the election. They were told that
they were to he guided in giving their votes by the dictates of their
conscience; that they were to vote for the person best qualified to
represent their feelings and their interests ; and that, in short, they
were to vote consistently with a faithful observance of the oaths
prescribed for them to be taken. This was the whole of the con-
duct observed by the Catholic Clergy—this " the head and front
of their offending." As to the charges adduced by the Hon. Mem-
ber against any individual Clergyman he could only say, that he
wally disbelieved them. With resneet to the conduct of the
forty shilling freeholders, he was himself favourabl- to' the fair in-
fluence of the landlords over their tenantry, though he was not an
advocate for an absolute controul. He wished to see a tenantry
grateful for the kindnesses of a protecting landlord ; but there were
limits to gratitude, as to generosity, and other virtues. A nation
could not be generous with her honour, a woman with her virtue,
or a freeholder with his franchise.—(Cheers. )—He would ask,
would not a freeholder be unworthy of the exercise of that fran-
chise which the Constitution gave him, who would vote for a
Candidate who, even by his own avowal, was ready to brand him
as a traitor to his King, a perjurer to his country, and an idolator
to his God?—(Cheers.) _ _

" IVas•ever voter in such humour woo'd?
Wasever voter in such humour won ?"

(cheers and laughter). If a Candidate was to, canvass a manu-
facturing town, who was to declare himself favourable to a high
price of corn ; or a Candidate for an agricultural district declare
himself for a cheap price, could either expect to meet the support
of those to whose interests he declared himself opposed t hear,
hear, bear!)? Or was it reasonable for an Anti-Catholic Mem-
ber to expect support in becoming the Representative of a county
when he was opposed to the religion of a majority of its freehold-
ers (hear, hear!)? Ile•was adverse to the interference of the
Clergy of any religious persuasion in political concerns; but the
interference which was now complained of, was the natural and
necessary consequences of the law; for that interference there was
but one cause—Catholic oppression ; and but one cure—Catholic
Emancipation—(cheers).
Mr. G. BANKES admitted that the measure
brought forward by the Honourable Baronet was supported by
the mighty names which formed that constellation of intellect
described by the Honourable Baronet, which was capable of
shedding the greatest light on any subject or effecting any ob-
ject, in the accomplishment of which they engaged. But it
was a defect frequently in persons of surpassing talent, that
they overlooked difficulties that struck upon the attention of
less gifted persons. If the Catholics were admitted to political
power, was it not natural that they should endeavour to obtain an
ascendancy of the members of their religion ? The consideration
of the succession furnished another palpable objection to the con-
cessions required by the Roman Catholics. Was. the exception
of succession to the Throne to be made? or, if it was not to be
pillars,K ,
Kingdom
dTino The
stilleh
t eninggreaterw Catholic,
a
a sthi io
ema
Constitution.
h el anomaly
yet presiding
aoon lud,d t
iofec
i tur
Houses
was
a oe fr
notafel
aIl
rieaya din Protestant
ae
nno
dft
tmt
hh
Church.aee de
essential that the King should be a Protestant, he owned he
was desirous of seeing the pillars of the constitution also
talihit"Dnisataeituntteerd
athewere
soundnessvere admitted o f
tothe
Parliament,
hol whole ed i
xfivchen.
IRPdIi
tie
srof
fowmet: eaaescinbdt
uas f
rant
ci todt h—amt
het inhot
tces a
hEhnsaut
dal
db, iha
Its
be
e deionntCae hirdeuesrrt ce hdi n
tmhsaoutrbeDv
subverting
iaennngt
eßtr
the
erisi ironCzat:tt ha
Protestant
as
in i
its religion—(hear,
(h earit 11.na3 ea,r)t_o the spirit r
with aviitonvf otfhasertetliingginnupheanbs
objected.—
There were many respectable authorities which considered super-
stition more dangerous than even Atheism; of these he would
refer to an eminent one, Lord Bacon, who said, that " Atheism
leaves a man
to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws,
to reputation : all which may be guides to an outward moral
virtue, though religion were not; but superstition dismounts all
these, and erecteth an absolute uncontroulable monarchy in the
minds of men "—The Priesthood in Ireland, and the manner in
which they exercised that influence at the County of Waterford
election represented this uncontrolable monarchy.—(Hear, hear.)
He Wished to disclaim any invidious or offensive comparison be-
tween Atheists and members of the Roman Catholic Religion._
The Honourable Gentleman then referred to the travels of Captain
Head in the New States of South America, to show the great power
possessed there by the Catholic Priesthood. At one place, they
had excited a rebellion, and seized the Governor in his bed, for the
purpose of putting down the Charter of Toleration, which was,
by their orders, publicly burned by the hands of the common
hangman. This was the case with regard to republican, regene-
rated, South Anierica.—(Cheers.)—How was it in Monarchical
Europ Had
e?• Had France made no retrograde steps with respect to
religious freedom ? Had the Jesuits made no progress When
there been no attempts made against the liberty of the press ?
di
t
the House considered the systematic efforts making, in eve
to increase the power of the Church of Rome, this was,
surely, a strange moment to select for admitting its adherents to
civil rights, which it had been hitherto deemed advisable
to deny
them in this country?
Mr. BROWNLOW felt that it was perfectly idle,
on his part, to add anything to the unanswerable arguments that
had been adduced by the Honourable Baronet (Sir F. Bur-
dett) in support of the claims of the Catholics. But he could
not avoid joining his prayers and entreaties to those of the Ho-
nourable Baronet for the success of this great Question. The
Honourable Gentleman (Mr. G. Bankes) who had preceded him,
had travelled over every land on the face of the Globe, in search of
materials for his speech. There was no country, he believed, the
Honourable Gentleman had not mentioned, except unfortunate
Ireland, which was the subject of the discussion—(a laugh.)—
He had heard that some of the opponents of the Catholic Ques-
tion had declared their determination to " show a good fight in
defense of their cause, and if necessary, to nail the colours to
the mast, and go down with the ship." Now, he asked any man
of common sense on the other side of the question, who was dis-
posed to speak the truth, whether, if they succeeded by a few
miserable majorities, in defeating the Catholics, they could be-
lieve the system they were upholding would be safe or perma-
nent? Any man who would answer that question in the affir-
mative, must be ver)", little versed in the history of the Catholic
Question. Dean Swift, in writing to a friend on the subject of
the Sacramental Test, observed, that the Catholics at that time
were without leaders, organization, or power. How different
their condition in 1790, when the petitions were set on foot for
the repeal of the Penal Laws? The state of Ireland was like that
of a man on the edge of a hill, where he could not stand, but
must move either backward or forward.—(Hear !)—What, then,
was to be done ? Was Parliament to go back and re-enact the
Penal Code ? If that was the meaning of the Hon. Member for

Derry (Mr. G. Dawson), he wished that Hon. Gentleman had said
so openly. Certainly he did understand that Hon. Gentleman to
mean, !by " firmness and decision," that he was disposed to
have recourse to violence against the Catholics.—(Cheers.)—
But the Hon. Gentleman, however strongly disposed he might
be, would. not avow that such was his intention. Indeed, the
project of re-enacting the Penal Code Was altogether impossible.
No man in Ireland would hear of it for a moment.—(Cheers.)—
Since then the question could not continue as it was, nor be car-
ried back—for nohOdi had ventured to make any such proposi-
tion, though the Hon. Member for Deny (Mr. G. Dawson) had
darkly and mysteriously hinted at it—what other course remained
but that of carrying it forward ? Justice, better late than never,
would enforce a total repeal of that Penal Code which was par-
tially relaxed in 1793. • The Hon. Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) had
stated this part of his case with admirable truth and decision. No-
thing could be more ridiculous and untenable than the present
state of the law in Ireland. When it was proposed to extend the
elective franchise to the Catholics, the Irish Parliament was asked
whether it would bring ignorance, bigotry, and numbers within
the pale of the .Constitution, while the countervailing influence of
the education and property belonging to the Catholics was still
excluded ? Yet this was precisely what had been done. A
favour was given with one band, and a blow with the other.—
(Cheers.)—The Honourable Member for Derry objected that
the. Priests had interfered with the elections.—He (Mr. Brown-
low) had seen a good deal of this kind of support, and he had
felt the full efficacy of it himself. In some instances the
Priests had succeeded, and in many others they had failed.—
But he bad seen the ties of landlord and tenant broken as fre-
quently for Candidates both equally zealous in the Protestant in-
terest, as in any contests in which the Catholics had been con-
cerned.—(Hear.)—The Priests, during the late elections, had
made use of no unfair influence, as far as his observation had
gone. The consequences of deferring the settlement of this ques-
tion would be increasing danger and insecurity to all classes of the
Irish people. Already, there was no safety for life, liberty, or
property, in that country. 'I here was no such thing as law or
authority in any part of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)—The Consti-
tution was tumbling to pieces, and society was dissolving.—( Hear,
hear, hear.)—lt was to such . a state of things as this that he
invited the special consideration of the House. They had been
told that the Catholics were, to a man, discontented. There
could be no doubt of that fact. The spirit of freedom bad spread
its sacred flame throughout the country, and every man was de-
termined to be emancipated, or cease to exist. But- the House
was told Oa-, state of things had been produced by an unlawful
Associatiffi: How it had been produced, it was comparatively
immaterial to inquire. The fact was, that the evil existed, and
the question was, how it was to he remedied ? The Catholic
Association undoubtedly possessed the affections and confidence of
the Irish people; it wielded the physical force of the country. If
Parliament wished to wean the people from the Association, sod
consolidate them into one mass of loyal snldects, it must .he by
giving them all a share in the Constitution. He implored the
House, therefore, to adopt a measure which would conciliate Ire-
land, and place the country in a state of security,—(Hear.)
Mr. CIIST opposed the motion.

Mr. G. MOORE, said, that this was not a question
of national injury or oppression, but of relative constittitoaal rights.
It was a question to he considered not with refereno- to the.fed-
ings of any particular class ofliis Majesty's subjects. it with re-
ference to the security of the whole kint,:cloni„ rt w,s objected,
to those who opposed this measure. that they,opposed the rights of
the people; but there was no foundation for this obi slim'. He,
for one, did not resist the concession of political pow( r to the Ro-
man Catholics on account of their faith alone, or on account of
their adherence to that faith, with reference merely to religious
considerations, but because they held tenets which went to the re-
cognition of a system of ecclesiastical domination—which went to
ttie recognition of the supremacy of a foreign power, exercising
a jurisdiction theoretically ecclesiastical, but directed practically
to political objects, and too often executed by political means.
It had also been objected to those who opposed concession, that
they opposed natural and indefeasible rights ; but as this argu-
ment had not been insisted on to-night, it was not his intention
to dwell upon it. The notion of abstract right had been aban-
doned in argument both by Mr. O'Connell and Dr. Doyle. In
arguing this question upon the ground of expediency, he did not
think it had been stated so fairly as it ought to have been. They
were not now debating upon the elements of a constitution to be
formed and adopted ; they were not called upon to discuss what
should be the form of the Constitution, but to change the existing
Constitution, which had been established upon a principle to
which this measure was opposed. - He.maintained, that before and
up to the time of the Norman conquest, independence of the See of
Rome was a governing principle in the Constitution of this country.
The guards which had been established by our ancestors for the safety,
of the Protestant Establishment had been wisely, deliberately and
cautiously adopted ; they had been adopted by men who had experi-
ence of the fatal effects resulting from Papal domination. Such were
the men by whom the Constitution was settled; and by whom
was concession sought to he obtained? It was sought to be ob-
tained by those who had no experience of the evils against which
our ancestors erected these constitutional safeguards, and who had
every experience of the blessings which had resulted from these
salutary restrictions. It was the Constitution which had secured
the Protestant Religion—a Religion which was the source of that
force,itTnhhdi
siempwiev,navasdhs eittnehhhcece:Cicao, finnssite.tiliti.ituasue
dit•tai
Constitution
11e B that
it,tsvih,hsepiyEci ri,miivteptr
etioirefey,
called
odt
were
heightenterprise, t that at
of moral
pros-
perity, and carried British resources into every quaeurptceoarnlioetfdotluellepigaonlnogbete..;
on
achieve an experiment which, if once made, could never be recalled.
The agitation which prevailed in Ireland had been designedly ex_
aggerated by those who had caused the agitation. No ,doubt the
leaders of the Catholic Association had been too successful in aug-
menting or keeping alive any existing discontent, but, there was
abundance of evidence to show, that the people of Ireland were
not in the state in which they had been represented to-be; and in
whatever state they might be, the measure now proposed was
least of all calculated to tranquillize that. country. The Hon.
Gentleman concluded by apologising for having troubled the
House at that late hour, and sat down by declaring his opposition
to the proposal of the Hon. Baronet.—.(Hear, hear !) •
, Mr. R. MARTIN rose amidst loud cries of ad-
journ; but after a short time succeeded in obtaining possession of
the House, which, howeVer, manifested many symptoms of im-
patience while the Hon. Member was speaking. The Hon. Mem-
ber entered into a history of his own contest for Galway, and
expressed his gratitude to Mr. O'Connell, by whose assistance he
owned, and by that of the Catholic Priests, his election, had been
secured against the power of that Government he had faithfully
served for 30 years.—(Loud laughter and cheers.)—He owed his
return to the Catholic Clergy and Mr. O'Connell. The Hon.
Member, remarking the impatience of the House, concluded by
declaring that he would support the Catholics.
On the Hon. Member resuming his seat, there were again loud
cries of adjourn, and on the motion of Sir John Newport, we be-
lieve, the Debate was adjourned till to-morrow (this day.)
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House Adjourned at One o'Clock.