The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-21 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TIIURSDAY EVENING, JUL! 21, 1842

REGENCY QUESTION.
(From the Gazette des Tribunaux.)
The other day a journal, ill disguising its hatreds
and desires under the farm of historical reminiscences,
enumerated at length the calamities which nearly
always in history accompanied regencies. It forgot
but one thing, which is, that the then form of Go-
vernment kept the State also in a minority, by con-
centrating all power in the hands of the Regent, the
choice of whom not being provided for by any precise
law, was left to the mercy 'of party strife. This
journal forgot that in searching history for lessons
respecting our future fortune, we should at least
search in histories where the Constitution is analo-
gous to our own. Had it looked to the History of
England, for example, it would have found that the
periods of minorities and regencies were as tranquil,
as useful, and as glorious as any other. Previous
to the Constitution of September 10, 1791, the law of
France presents few texts relative to this question.
It is in facts alone that is to be sought the solution of
such questions, and at each step facts are modified or
denied according to the interest of those who hap-
pened to be in power. Under the first race, there was
no rule. The Regency was exercised by he mother
of the minor King ; by his grandmother ; oftner it
was usurped by some officer of the late King's House-
hold. it was only under the second race, in a charter
of Louis the Simple, that that principle was first laid
down, which was afterwards reproduced in the Con-
stitution of 1791, that the right to the Regency
should be determined as much as possible by the
order of succession to the throne. The right of
the Queen Mother is also to be taken into
consideration. Nevertheless, these two princi-
ples were not always respected, buth Queen
Mother and Heir Presumptive being excluded frrm
the Regency, as was the case after the death of
Henry I. This was the germ of the Regency by
right of the late King's will. Queen Blanche was
thus named Regent by an Act of Louis VIII. during
the minority of her son Louis IX., and her firmness
overcame the obstacles which the young King's uncle
put in her way. Independent of a Regency during
' the King's minority, there was that during his ab-
sence. In this case the King could choose whom he
pleased. St. Louis preferred the Abbot of St. Denis
as a 'Regent, rather than the Queen or his brothers.
The settlement of a Regency during a minority was
to be sanctioned by the grandees of the kingdom.
This was the case when Philip the Handsome settled
the Regency which succeeded him. The edict of
Dec. 26th, 1407, is the first which is explicit on the
subject. This edict publishes, as perpetual and ir-
revocable, that - minor Kings should be governed by
the counsels and deliberations of the Queen-mother,
if alive, or the nearest relation of the blood Royal,
and also by, the deliberations and counsels of the Con-
stable and Chancellor of France, and other wise men.
An express clause of the edict forbids any interpreta-
tion or change to be made in it ; but the edict was not
the better observed for that. For instance, at the
death of Louis XI., the last wish of. Louis U. was
that his daughter, Anne de Beaujeu, should be Regent.
This was violently opposed by the Duke of Orleans,
heir presumptive to the Crown (since Louis XII.),
who pretended to the Regency by right of the edict of
1407. Jean de Bourbon made the same pretensions.
The dispute threatened to become serious, though the
edict was evidently in favour of the Duke of Orleans.
The States-General assembled at Tours settled the ques-
tion by declaring that, although the King was still a
minor, he should be crowned immediately and govern
himself; that the Duke should be President of the
King's Council, and that Jean de Bourbon and Sire
de Beajeu should have the right of sitting there. We
cannot follow all the details of the struggle between
Catharine de Medicis and the King of Navarre for
the Regency during the minority of Charles IX.:
a middle course was again had resort to. " The three
estates of the kingdom," said the Chancellor De
L'Hopital, "to whom the contestation was referred,
determined either by equity or our pressing solicitaw
tions, to give the guardianship of the person and pro-
perty of the King to the Queen, and the King of
Navarre to be her assistant and councillor. It was
thought that this would be a means of reconcilia-
tion, but it proved the contrary. The right of
Queens to the Regency was soon after solemnly
and unanimously acknowledged by. Parliament, which,
on the very day King Henry IV. died, gave the.
regency to Marie de Medicis. Louis XIII., warned
by the dangers which the state had run during his
minority, determined to avert, if possible, those dangers
from his successor. He, therefore, declared in the
month of April, 1643, Queen Anne regent during the
minority of the Dauphin, and the Duke of Orleans,
hil brother, lieutenant-general of the kingdom, under
Qbeen, with a council to regulate by vote all the im-
portant business of the state. But after the King's
death the Duke of Orleans and the Prince of Conde,
having declared that they would take no other part in
affairs but that which it pleased the Queen to assign
them, the Parliament setting aside the late King's will,
declared the Queen-mother regent, of the kingdom,
with liberty to choose her own council. The will of
Louis XIV. was destined to be as little respected as
that of Louis XIIL, and Louis XIV. had foreseen
it : "I have made my will," said he, " because I was

besought to do so, but mine will be treated as was my
father's." In this will, wishing to conform to the
edict of 1407, he appointed no regent, but a council
of regency, in which he named the Duke of Orleans
chief. This council was to be composed of princes of
the blood, not younger than twenty-four years,
Ministers of State, Marshals Villeroi, de Villars,
d'Harcourt, d'Uells, and De Tallard; and the number
was not to be increased, even in case of the death
of one of them. All business was to be settled
by a plurality of voices. The Duke of Maine had
charge of the King's education, and the govern-
ment of the troops of his household. The day
after the death of Louis XIV. this will was annulled
by Act of Parliament, on the grounds that if
the Duke of Orleans were chief by virtue of the
King's will, he was also by his merit and high birth.
He was therefore proclaimed Regent. There is great
obscurity as to the real term fixed for the majority of
the Kings of France. According to Tillett the ma-
jority was fixed at the age of fifteen, after Hugues
Capet ; but Dupois, in his " Traite de la Al ajorite des
Rois," observes that Tillet spoke without authority ;
and adds that in 1184, Philip was still a minor, though
twenty years old ; that St. Louis was a minor till
twenty-one ; from whence the author concludes, as
from other examples, that the full majority of Kings
is not reached till twenty-one. Philip the Bold was
the first Who modified this state of things ; for by an
ordonnance of 1270, he fixed the majority of his son
at the age of fourteen. We find the same age indi-
cated for majority in an Act of Partition made in
1344, by Philip of Valois, and in the edict of 1374, by
which Charles V. orders " that the eldest sons of
Kings of France present and future, shall be of age
at fourteen." These prescriptions were generally fol-
lowed afterwards. Under Catherine of Medicis it was
disputed whether fourteen years commenced, or four-
teen years accomplished, rendered the King of age.
Catherine caused the former to be decided.

To prevent the return of similar disputes, the Con-
stituent Assembly thought fit to regulate in absolute
terms the organisation of the Regency. In the terms
of the Constitution of 1791, the King is a minor till
the age of :eighteen is accomplished ; the Regency
belongs to the nearest of kin to the King, following
the order of succession. The Regent must be twenty-
five years of age, a Frenchman, and not heir-pre-
sumptive to another crown. Women are excluded
from the Regency. The Constitution then fixes the
conditions for the election of a Regent, in case the
minor King has no near relative. 'The election is to
be made by a college composed of special electors
named in each district. The Senatus Consultum of
28 Floreal, year 12, treated also of the Regency.
According to this Senatus Consultum, the Emperor
is a minor until he is eighteen years of age accom-
plished. The Regent must be twenty-five accom-
plished. "Women are excluded from the Regency.
The Emperor names the Regent from among the
French Princes ; and in default of any among the
grandees of the empire. In case the Emperor has
not named the Regent, and none of the French Princes
having attained the age of twenty-five, the Senate
elects the Regent from among the grandees of the na-
tion. Regent is not responsible : the powers of the
Regent are limited, especially in the declarations
of war and signing of treaties—cases in which
the Council of Regency must decide by a majority.
The care of the Emperor is entrusted to his mo-
ther; in case of her death, to the prince named by the
predecessor of the minor, or by the Senate. Another
Senatus Consultum, of 1813, somewhat modifies these
dispositions. Instead of excluding women from the
regency, it declares the Empress-mother Regent as
well as guardian. The Empress disposes of the
regency either by will or letters patent.

The Augsburgh Gazette gives some additional de-
tails respecting the late disturbances at Mantua.
It appears that, for some time past, several of
the young men of the town had been excited
against the Jews by fanatical sermons, and only
waited for a favourable opportunity to testify
their hate. On the 30th ult., one of them
being in a cafe with several Jews, gave one a kick
and blow in the face. This was the beginning of a
violent quarrel, which gradually extended itself to
various parts of the town. The Commandant having
hastened to stop the riot, one of the leaders pushed
him violently back, and tore his decoration from his
breast. The armed force was called out, and fired on the
rioters. Several were killed, and others wounded. The
populace then took part in the quarrel and opposed the
soldiers, and as the garrison is but small in summer
the tumult continued for three days. The country-
house of the Jewish family Finzi was pillaged, and
for three days the Jews could not stir out of their
habitations. At last troops arrived from Verona, and
tranquillity was in some measure restored.
In the course of the last week a woman of Ghent
was delivered of four children ; they were all bops
alive, but died soon afterwards.

1 URKEY.

CONSTANTINOPLE, JUNE 29.—The Austrian Charge
d'Afthires ad interim, M. Cletsel, has forwarded to
the Porte a communication from Prince Metternich,
wherein its attention is called to the disorders pre-
vailing in the administration of Bosnia. Numerous
families of Christians had, in consequence of the op-
pression and grinding exactions of the Pacha, taken
refuge in the Austrian territory, and the effect of this
misgovernment is said to be a general insecurity of
the frontier. The Prince expresses his hopes that
the Porte will spontaneously take such measures as
are calculated to restore confidence and tranquillity
to those districts—that the refugees will be recalled

to their homes, and protected in their persons and
property.
The country of the Montenegrins is also reported
to be in a state of similar disturbance and insurrec-
tion, and the suppression of these disorders has been
alleged as a pretext for marching an additional force
of 2,000 men into Roumelia ; but the real cause of
this reinforcement is, more probably, the precarious
state of the relations of the Porte with the Greek
Government. Negotiations, however, are said to
have at length opened on this subject—protocols are
being already drawn up, and bid fair, before the labour
be complete, to be as numerous a progeny as those
brought forth by the Belgian revolution.
I mentioned to you last week that a circular had
been addressed by the Porte to the different Lega-
tions on the subject of the abuse of protection con-
ferred on Ottoman subjects by foreign passports. It
was occasioned, I find, by some previous corespon-
dence which had passed between the Porte and the
Russian Charge d'Affaires. On the complaint of
the Turkish Government with respect to the Rus-
sian protections granted to its subjects at Odessa,
M. Titoff promised to write to Count Woron-
zoff, the Governor of the Crimea. He accord-
ingly did so, and received an answer to the effect
that as the individuals in question were the bearers
of foreign, and not Turkish, passports, from Con-
stantinople, the authorities could not refuse them
Russian passports, when they applied for them on
their departure. If the Porte wished to put a stop to
this abuse, it shoed take the proper steps at Con-
stantinople. The contents of this letter having been
communicated to the Porte by M. Titoff, the circular
I have alluded to was in consequence despatched to
the Foreign Legations.
Yermanos, Archbishop of Therapia, has been elected
to the vacant chair' of the Patriarch. He was on the
9th ult., inaugurated at the Porte, and afterwards
harangued by the Grand Vizier, who told him he was
sesponsible for. the loyalty of ten millions of the
Sultan's subjects. Rifat Pacha, ex-minister for foreign
affairs, has been appointed Inspector General of
Finances in the European provinces of Turkey. He
is to proceed forthwith on a circuit, to fulfil the duties
of his appointment.

Mr. BROTHERTON expressed his regret that this
Bill should not pass this session. •
Mr. COWPER expressed his regret that the House
was about to close its sitting without having passed any
measure for relieving the deplorable state in which vast
portions of the poor were placed in large towns. This
question had been before the House for two years, and
had been amply discussed in the House of Lords. The
necessity of the measure bad been proved beyond the
shadow of a doubt, and yet the Right Hon. Baronet
said they must wait for a Report.
Dr. BOWRING hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would
consult the various town councils of large towns on the
subject, before he introduced another Bill.
After a few words from Mr. R. YORKE and Mr. T.
EGERTON, the motion was agreed to.
POOR-LAW AMENDMENT BILL.
On the bringing up of the Report on this Bill,
Mr. ESCOTT moved the insertion of the following
clause :—" That it shall be lawful for all boards of guar-
dians of the poor in England and Wales to grant such
relief as in their judgment shall be necessary to poor
persons at their own homes, any order, rule, or regula-
tion of the Poor-law Commissioners notwithstanding."
He was neither a decided opponent, nor a decided sup•
porter of the Poor-law Amendment Act ; his object was
to amend the Act, with a view to the benefit of the poorer
classes of this country. He should not speak as a par-
tisan ; he believed they were all desirous to improve the
condition of the rate-payer and the recipient of pariah
relief, and with that belief he should address himself to
the clause now before the House. There was one
important object which the Bill did not seem
to contemplate, . and as it was proposed to
continue this Commission for five years without
the introduction of any remedial clauses, he conceived it
to be imperative on him to do his best to supply what
was wanting in that Bill, and with that view he had
given notice of the motion which he had the honour now
to bring forward. He should, no doubt, be told that the
great objection to his clause would be that it was in
direct opposition to the principle of the Bill. He could
not see that. If the principle of the Bill was to encourage
the honest labourer and to discourage the idle vagabond,
to relieve the distresses of the poor, and at the same time
to save the money of the rate-payers, then he would
-declare once and for all, that lie was for the principle of,
the Bill. If the principle of the Bill was that the honest
distressed labourer and artisan should receive no relief
unless he entered the workhouse, then he would say,
once and for all, that he was opposed to the
principle of the Bill—(Hear, hear)—and before they
separated, he should feel obliged to the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet if he would tell them what really was the principle
of the measure. He must dispute the rightfulness of
Parliament ever instituting the. Poor-law Commission ;
he should like to know in what author upon Parliamen-
tary influence, they would find the authority for insti-
tuting such a Commission, for delegating to three men
the power of making laws, which power should be only
vested in the two Houses of Parliament and the Crown.
He should wish that the Noble Lord the Member for
London were present, that he might ask him what was the
authority upon which such a Commission had been insti-
tuted. The Commission having been institut_ d, they must
acknowledge it, but still he could not see, nor could he
ever ascertain upon what authority such a Commis.
sion was established ; this being the case he thought they
should pause before they continued that Commission for
five years. He had heard in that House that the pro-
hibitory order could not be enforced in the manufac-
turing districts, but that the agricultural districts re-
ceived all the benefit from it, their rates were lowered,
and labaur was cheap. He (Mr. Escott) spoke only
with regard to the agricultural districts, and he could
say upon his own knowledge, that the prohibitory order
had been productive of the greatest mischief, both to the
rate-payers and the industrious poor. The prohibitory
order was this : they told an able-bodied man that be-
cause he was able-borlied he should receive no relief
unless he entered the house. He (Mr. Escott) had seen
the effect of this order ; it was that the able-bodied did
not continue able-bodied long. That was the effect
upon the industrious poor; whilst the idle dis-
honest vagabond went into the house, and fat-
tened upon his idleness. Umder the prohibitory
order not only were the best punished, and the worst
indulged, but that which they fondly thought would be
the means of raising wages, had turned out to be the
moans of reducing them to a dreadful extent. Labour
was abundant, and rather than enter the workhouse,
and leave his wife and little ones to the hard hand of
fate, the honest poor consented to work for trifling
wages. In all the parishes in Somersetshire the rates
were raised under the operation of the New Poor-law,
although the poor were suffering extreme destitution.
And how were they raised ? A man and his wife, and
five or six children, threw themselves into the house, and
it cost the parish, five and twenty shillings a-week
to maintain them. If the poor man had
received 2s. 6d. a week out of the workhouse, the parish
would have avoided paying the difference. The object
of this clause was to provide for this case. He knew
there were some objections to the adoption of such a
clause, but he asked the Secretary of State to consider
which evil would be the least. Was it better to give a
family half-a-crown a week to save the necessity of their
going into the house, or was it better to adhere rigidly
to one uniform principle of political economy? Heimight
be told that the clause which he proposed was a mischie-
vous interference with the power of the Commissioners,
and would diminish the power of doing good. He did
not believe that it would have that effect. If he thought
the useful authority of the Commissioners was
likely •to be injured he would not have pro-
posed the clause ; but, in point of fact, it referred
to a matter over which the Commissioners had no au-
thority, namely, the prohibitory order.—(Hear, hear.)
The Legislature had, in the 15th section of the original,
expressly provided that the Commissioners should have
no power of granting out-door relief.—(Hear, hear.)
Now, he was aware that there were environs where none
of the evils which he had described existed ; but how
were they avoided ? By acting expressly in opposition
to the law.—(Hear; hear.) The object of his clause was
to enable that to be done by law, which at present was
done against the law. He had met with a Chairman of
a Board of Guardians, who had boasted to him that
he paid no attention whatever to the Assistant Com-
missioner. In some uniins, the guardians gave
out-door relief by covert means,' by granting a
loan of two or three pounds, which they did not expect
to be repaid.—(Hear, hear.) Why should they not re-
move the necessity for such a practice ? He had fre •
quently been told by Hon. Members that if he had seen
the operation of the law in their part of the country he
would change his opinions.—(Hear, hear.) He believed
that in particular districts the law was wisely and hu-
manely administered, but in such cases it was because
benevolent and exemplary individuals made up for the
defects of the law itself.—(Hear, hear.) He believed
that if the House passed' a third Act, repealing all the
statutes which had been passed since the statute of
Elizabeth, and leaving the law as it then stood, they
would confer a greater benefit upon the country than by
legislating during the whole of the nest session on this
subjecl. With respect to the continuance of the
Commission he did not agree with those who
thought that it was intended to make the Corn
mission perpetual. He had one ground for holding
that opinion, which he thought would satisfy all who
considered it. When the Bill was introduced in the
House of Lords the Duke of Wellington said, one of the
objects of the Bill then before the House was to brink the
law back to the hands of the Magistrate, and replace it
in the hands of those of the overseer, according to the
old system ; when they had got back to the old system
no one would be more glad than himself to see the plan
abandoned. He believed that when the Duke of Wel-
lington uttered those words he had in his eye a
return to the old parochial system.—(Hear, hear.)
He should take the sense of the House upon the ques-

tion, and, in making that statement, he 13:vggPd to say
he had never pressed forward a question to a division
which he did not think for the good of the public in
general.
Sir J. GRAHAM considered that the course pursued
by the Hon. Member entitled his suggestions to the con-
sideration of the House. He felt how interminable the

discussions on the present subject were, but he must say
that the proposition of the Hon. Member was not only
inconsistent with the present Bill, but that which was
introduced in 1834. It was at variance with the work-
house system altogether, and the laws that had been in
existence for the last century, ar.d would place the relief
of the poor under the statute of Elizabeth alone. He was
of opinion that, if the House agreed to the proposition of
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, it would nullify and
render void the Act of 1834, and he was quite satisfied
that this would create inextricable confusion.—(Hear.)
Mr. FIELDEN supported the clause as proposed by
the Hon. Member for Winchester. He denied that the
guardians had the power of affording out-door relief. He
always considered that the Poor• law was founded on in-
justice, and ought to be blotted out of the statute-book.
Mr. WARD would endeavour to remove the law from

the statute-book if he thought it was unjust, but he did
not think so. With respect to the poor man's wages, if
the man had but 7s. or Bs. a week where lie ought to have
125., the man had his remedy against the farmer by
throwing his family into the workhouse, as by that
course he increased the amount of the poor-rates upon
the farmer. Therefore, the effect of the new Poor-law
Bill was to increase wages. In the Union of Ware, in
Hertfordshire, 20 labourers employed in the gravel
pits received wages out of the poor-rates before this Bill
passed, while, since its enactment, the number was only 17.
Mr. O'CONNELL would vote with the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman if he went to a division, because it
extended the principle, or rather the practice, of out-
door relief. The principle of out-door relief was ad-
mitted by the Right Hon. Baronet, as he, said that nine-
tenths of the poor received out-door relief at the present
time.—(Hear.) Tho working of the Poor-law in Ireland
was exceedingly dangerous: The two workhouses in
in Dublin were full, and a person could not be admitted
without an inmato going abroad. He should support the
Hon. Gentleman, as the workhouses were full, while the
number of mendicants had not decreased.
Mr. HARDY supported the motion.
Mr. AGLIONBY thought the guardians might very
well be trusted to exercise a discretion in administering
out-door relief ; he should therefore vote fur the motion
of the Hon. Gentleman opposite.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL opposed the motion.
Mr. H. KEMBLE was of opinion that the Poor law
Amendment Act required some alterations, at the same
time he thought that the object which the lion. Member
had in view was attained under time present law. He
hoped the Hon. Member would not press his motion to a
division, for if he did, he (Mr. Ketuble) should be com-
pelled to leave, or to skulk out of the House, because he

would not pledge himself to the opinion that the guar-
dians were not capable of exercising a discs etion in ad-
ministering relief.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD trusted the Hon. Member would
divide the House upon his motion. Hon. Members
might skulk if they pleased, but he should vote for the
motion of the Hon. Member opposite.
Mr. HUME approved of many of the sentiments of
the Hon. Mover of the motion, at the same time he

thought that the effect of his remedy would be to over-
turn the whole existing system, and send them back I
again to the old law, of which he wai happy to say they
were now rid. He thought he should be best support-
ing the interests of the working classes by voting against
the motion.
General JOHNSON supported the clause.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the clause
Agatnst it
Majority against the clause —3s
Sir T. D. ACLANI) regretted that the Hon. Baronet
had omitted the 29th clause, empowering the guardians
to appoint local committees. He hoped he would con-
sent to add that clause.
The Bill was then ordered to be engrossed and read a
third time on Friday next.
THE CASE OF MASON

On the motion for going into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he rose for the purpose of
offering some inter ruption to the pleasing occupation of
voting away public money.
Lord SANDON hoped the Hon. Gentleman would
defer his motion.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE.said, when his notice had been
on the paper the whole day he was surprised at the sug-
gestion of the Noble Lord. Here were eight individuals
who, he contended, were improperly and unjustly impri-
soned, and he could not consent that they should remain
in that condition. If the Right Hon. Baronet, the Se-
cretary for the Home Department, would consent that
he should bring forward the subject on Frday he would
postpone the motion, but upon no other ground.—(Hear.)
Sir J. GRAHAM said there would be another day
for going into Committee of Supply, when the Hon.
Gentleman would have the same opportunity of bringing
forward the subject. He was not aware until yesterday
of any of the facts of the case. He thought that that
evening was a very inconvenient time for proceeding with
the discussion.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE then postponed the motion till
the next supply day. _

SUPPLY.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee of
Supply, Mr. G REENE in the Chair.
Sir G. CLERK said he would now proceed with the
Irish Estimates.
A sum of 8,293/. was voted to defray the expenses of
the Foundling Hospital in Dublin.
14,251/. was voted for the House of Industry in
Dublin.
A vote of 1,000/: was agreed to for the Female Or-
phan House in Dublin.
2,5001. was voted for the Westmoreland Lock Hospital.
1,0001. was voted for the Lying-in Hospital.
1,500/. was voted for Dr. Stevens's Hospital.
3,8001. was voted for the purpose of defraying the
expenses of the House of Recovery and Fever Hospital,
Dublin.
5001. was voted for the Hospital of Incurables.
On the vote of 8,928/. for the College of Maynooth
being put,
Mr. PLUMPTRE said he should oppose the vote,
and take the sense of the House upon it.
Lord CLEMENTS defended the grant.
Mr. BATESON opposed the grant. He thought the
College had not answered the object which it was at
first intended to attain. The College was founded in a
time of war, for the purpose of preventing the Roman
Catholic students in Ireland from going to the
Continent fur the purpose of receiving educa-
tion. The College had not taught the students to yield
tribute to those to whom tribute was due. The College
was founded to prevent a spirit of revolution gaining
ground, by obviating the necessity of Roman Catholic
families sending their children to the Continent for an
education. He trusted the House would not agree to
this grant towards a system which was most baneful to
the peace and well-being of Ireland, as the Roman
Catholics of Ireland were enslaved by the system, and
by it a spirit of revolution and treason was created.
Mr. HAWES would enter his
.protest. against
the language used by the o -ponents of this grant.
The Hon. Member ought to be a voluntary religionist.
He called on the Hon. Member to consider well the
course he was pursuing, for he struck at the root of all
State contributions to an Established Church. He was
ashamed of the debate—let them be consistent, and re-
fuse all State grants to every Church. He did not object
to grants to Churches; if voted fairly and impartially.
He did not assume infallibility—he lett that to the Hon.
Member for Kent. He deprecated many of the topics
which had been introduced by the Hon. Member who
spokelast. What good could arise from his abuse of the
clergy of the majority of the people of. Ireland ? The
Hon. Gentleman had called himself a Protestant. He
wished he hail called himself a Christian, and then he
would have felt that he had no right to attack his
fellow Christians in the manner he had done. He hoped
the Government would not be influenced by the Hon.
Member's reasons.
Mr. BAILLIE COCHRANE opposed the vote. The
Regium donum was on a different footing. It Nvas
quite a different thing to vote the Regium donum and to
vote a sum of money for the support of a religion
diametrically opposed to our own.
Sir G. H. SMYTH having found, on investigation,
that horrors and filthiness were taught in Maynooth,
felt conscientiously called upon to oppose the grant on
account of the immorality of the system of education
there. He could not vote for the grant when the Pro-
testant religion was *in danger, and surely it was in
danger when that powerful man, the Lord Mayor of
Dublin, said he hoped to live to see the day
when high mass would be celebrated in Westminster
Abbey.—(Loud laughter.) S irely the Protestant
religion was in danger when the Lord Mayor of Dublin
said that.---(Continued laughter.) He (Sir O. H. Smyth)
had always opposed Catholic Emancipation violently—
(Roars of laughter)—and he thought it was most unfor-
tunate fur the country that that measure had ever been

carried.
Mr. MONCKTON MILNES said that after what
had fallen from English, Irish, and Scotch Members on
that (tho Ministerial) side of the" House upon the grant,
it might not be inconvenient for him to say a few words
why he could not conscientiously refuse to vote for the
grant to Mayn ooth. He could not say that the extravagant
wish of the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork would
frighten him out of his propriety, but he must say, in
reference to the extracts from theological works alluded
to, that isolated passages thus selected could not
be with justice brought forward as a charge
against the Catholic religion. He thought the
English Government were bound to interfere in the
education of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, and while
he insisted on the justice of allowing the grant to May-
nooth, he trusted that, considering the fiscal difficulties
under which the State at present laboured, no one would
seek for an increase of that sum.

Colonel VERNER said there never was in any coun-
try, certainly not in England, an institution supported
at the public expense, against which so many grave charges
had been brought, and which had been so weakly met.
He would quote the published opinions on the subject, of
one of the chief supporters of the present Government;
and one who was not only a supporter, but one of its
brightest ornaments. It was the opinion of W. E.
ladstone, Esq., student of Christ Church, in a pamphlet,
entitled, " The Church in relation to the State." In
that pamphlet it -was stated, " that this grant was
niggardly in amount, and was vicious in principle, and
would be a thorn in the side of the country, so long as
it was continued. If, indeed, the public faith was pledged
to the College, by all means let it be kept up." He
(Colonel Verner) knew that that Right Hon.
Gentleman was one of the last men to forfeit
that pledge, if it had been given, but he (Colonel Verner)
denied that it had been made. Those were the senti-
ments of a gentleman whose opinions were entitled to as
much weight as the opinkpns of any individual is that
House. The Duke of Wellington himself had also ex-
pressed a similar opinion to that of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman. The Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, had
often told the House how much the Government was in-
debted to the Catholic priests for their exertions in pre-
serving the peace of the country. He only wished he
could say the same thing of his own part of the kingdom.
When were the priests ever found coming forward to
support the authorities ? The Hon. Gentleman con-
cluded amid the greatest marks of impatience.

Mr. BROTH'ERTON moved that the Chairman do
report progress.—(" Oh, oh !" and "Go on.")
Lord JOCELYN would support the grant, believing
that the Government was pledged to do it, but hoping
that an inquiry into the system would be granted by the
Executive.

Lord ELIOT thought the discussion had partaken
more of the character of a theological controversy than
a political debate. The grant had been approved by
every House of Commons that had existed since it was
passed, and nothing he had heard had induced him to
think it ought to be refused. He thought so large a
portion of the Irish people ought not to be exposed to
spiritual destitution, which would be the case if they
were deprived of the opportunity of receiving instruc-
tion in the fundamental truths of their religion. The
Commission of Inquiry, issued in 1835, had given it as
their decided opinion that nothing either immoral or
disloyal was taught in the College ; the class•books that
had been alluded to were the class-books used in every
Roman Catholic college in Europe ; there might
be a question raised as to whether those who were
intended for the priesthood should receive such a course
of instruction, but the plan adopted at Maynooth was
that followed in every other Catholic college. As to
the objections founded on isolated passages extracted
from the works alluded to, they might as well go to the
College of Surgeons, and object to the anatomical plates
of their class-books that they were indecent and obscene.
He thoughtno more forcible argument for repeal could be
used than refusing this grant, and it was utterly inexpli-
cable to him how those wished to maintain the Union
could vote against the grant. He felt bound to bear his
testimony to the conduct of the Catholic priests in the
disturbed districts.
Mr. O'CONNELL would, if he considered himself at
liberty after the speeches which bad been made, vote
against the grant, for he, on principle, objected to taxing
one set of Christians fur the religious purposes of an-
other ; besides the grant was a miserable, niggardly one.
(Hear, hear.) It appeared that the Right Hon. Baronet
the Member for Colchester, had been unfortunate in his
readings; he had diligently sought out that which every
one else would avoid. It was a taste perhaps peculiar to
the Hon. Baronet.—(A laugh.) The Hon. Member for
Kent, it appeared, was °Glided. lie was sorry for it, for
he thought there were none who would take the trouble
to appease the Hon. Member; but the Hon. Member
need not take the trouble to go so far as Maynooth for
the.doctrines which had offended him; he would find them
much nearer home. He would only have to travel as far
as Oxford to find them—(Cheers and laughter)—as the
lion. Member for l'ontefraet could tell him, who it ap-
peared had approached so near to Catholicity that he was
determined never to join it.—(Cheers.) He knew not what
had become of the Hon. Member for the University of
Oxford. He would not say the Hon. Baronet had
skulked away—(Cheers)—that it seemed was an unpar-
liamentary word—(Loud laughter)—but he wondered
where he was. lie was sorry to see, too, that the Gal-

lant Officer, the Member for Armagh, was. not in the
House. That Gallant Officer was one of their Colonels
—(Laughter)—and he thoughrhe ought not to have left
his post. He thought he might have come reeking from
the battle of the Diamond.—(Cheers.) He did nut be-
lieve that the Hon. and Gallant Member had designedly
exhibited his Orange handkerchief, when he had talked
of the feelings of intolerance inculcated at 3laynooth
He agreed with the Hon. Member, that feelings of into-
lerance were bad ; but there was something worse, and
that was
,the pretence of feelings.—(Cheers.) Wha4
protection, he would ask, did the Catholics get from
the magistracy in the district in which the Ga.llua
Colonel resided?—(Cheers.) There was the Catholic
village of Magheray, which had been wrecked in do
Gallant Colonel's presence—the village had been do
stroyed, and the inhabitants forced to fly fur their lives.
The Jury, however, had not been found unfavourable to
those brougllt before them, for not one individual had
been convicted or punished for it. The Catholic clergy
were subject to many provocations. Was it nothiegy
when the Protestant gentry brought up their youth with
the bitterest feelings of animosity to the Catholic
rer
ligion?—(" No, no," from the Ministerial benches.) esl
yes ; animosity the more apparent, from the flimsy Y
Yett
beneath which it was attempted to be hidden.—(Loi'l
cheers.) Feelings the most malignant were encourage,'
among the youth of the gentry against the CalhulAjc.
clergy calumnies the most foul were propagated
against that clergy—calumnies which he (Mr. O'Conne,i,,"
would undertake to disprove, and to the proof of whl'l
he had repeatedly challenged the calumiators.—(Cheers')
Those who poisoned springs, were accounted miscresol?
unworthy of civilisation ; and what should they accotot
those who would fain poison the. minds of the youth e'
a country against a body of men the most worthy, If
most exemplary, the most self-denying on the face
the earth?—(Cheers.) The people of Ireland loved tile
clergy. If they were sick, if they were dying, tireP
their clergy were administering to them consolatier)'
Their clergy never deserted them.—(Cheers.) It lost:
fact, that the typhus fever never raged in Iceland, btl,l
an immense number of the Roman Catholic clergY-
victims to it.--(Cheers.) And these were the clergo
whom a youth had had the presumption to attack, ill
spirit of the bitterest animosity.—(Cheers.) Shsl3/-
1 on him for doing so.—(Cheers.) Shame, shame cn
th
, who educated him in such principles.--(Loud cheers.
He was sorry he bad taken up the attention of tbs.
House so long, but he felt it his duty to fling off th°se,
calumnies. He regretted to hear so many cheers wl'er'
there Aught to have been disapprobation. The xoCi
bers of the Catholic Church might be assailed, but theY
never would be conquered.
ng
Colonel VERNEIt explained. During the wreel'il
of the village of Magheray, he had risked his life sever'
times to save the village.
Mr. O'CO3TN ELL—It was the Orange yeool4l
that wrecked it, and not one of them was ever punishe
Mr. BATESON said that the Right Hon. Aletedr
for Cork had cast a strong imputation on a very et.,
relative of his, the late Member for Londonderry'
(Mr. O'Connell) had mentioned the word " miscreitebt,
in connection with that gentleman, in allusion t°
t
manner in which he (Mr. Bateson) had been brought 1111;
Now he would not mention how the late Meraber 0
Londonderry had brought him (Mr. Bateson) up. Wile
would mention how he had not brought him up.
had not brought him up to be a cowardly blusterer tl
mendicant hypocrite.—(ob, oh; and Hear, hear.) Uo
Mr. O'CONNELL said he could forgive the Y9",i
gentleman for the language he now used. He bad 0.1
an admirable specimen of what might be expected-1.
him. _ _

------
The Olhnmittee then divided—
For the grant , 95
Against it
Majority in favour of the grant —4'
3001. was voted for the Royal Irish Academy. .0
The sum of 3001. was voted for the Royal Hiberill
Academy. tbc
7001. was voted for the salaries and expenses et
Commission of Charities in Ireland. , ole
1,9501. was voted for defraying the salaries of
Royal Belfast Academical Institution. • ~
17,345/. was vote-A for the expenses of the baildni',
department in Ireland.. , of
.On the vote of 23,4631. for defraying the expense"
the Secretary and Privy Council of Ireland,
Colonel SIBTHORP objected to the vote, when Iv
Mr. BROTHERTON, moved that the Chairman
port progress.—Agreed to.
The House then resumed.
The Wide Streets (Dublin) Bill was read a flux.
• a tipc
and passed.

BRIBERY BILL. A be
Sir THOMAS WYLDE asked when a day cool
fixed for the bringing forward the Bribery Dr.
Sir R. PEEL said it was the wish of the utri; be
ment to proceed with the supplies, and he i'shoulu the
better able on Friday to say what day he .....ould.fix for he
Bill. Considering the state of public business', the
thought it would be advisable that the House toviard.4
end of the session should meet at twelve o'clock e`

day.—(Hear, hear.)
SOUTH AUSTRALIA BILL.
On bringing up the Report of the South Austri°
Bill, re.
Dr. BOWRING thought the Bill ought to be re.
poned, as the Hon. Member for Montrose had givell'rt.
Lice of two special clauses on the bringing up the Be Lye
Sir R. PEEL could not postpone the Bill becaus°
Hon. Member for Montrose was not in his place. v
Mr. B. WOOD thought the Bill ought not to
brought on at that late hour of the night. , f 111
Lord STANLEY said the question bad been
discussed last night. He should press the ,
Dr. BOWRING moved that the debate be 116J°4'''''.
Mr. P. WOOD seconded the motion.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw; or)
House divided, when there appeared—
For the adjournment • 1
Against it
58
Majority against the adjournment "-A" with
The announcement of the numbers was receivuu
shouts of laughter. rtleiet
Bill
to Report was then brought up, and the °
to be read a third time this day.
PRISONS BILL.
The Prisons Bill was read a third time and passe reol
The Common Law Courts (Ireland) Bill eltsd on
-
a second time, and ordered to be committe
Monday next.
a this
The Election Petitions Trial Bill was read
time and passed.
The Customs Act Amendment Bill went thrd
Committee. Report this day. ittee,
The Stamp Duties Bill passed throne?. Conllll
Report this day.
The Exckequer Bills Preparation Bill went thro
Committee. Report ordered to be received this se'
The Game Certificates (Irel nd) Bill was read $
cond time. GO
The House then adjourned at Half past Two 0

wgS,
DUTCH AND LiERIVIAN PAP'-0(110
THE HAGUE, JULY 16.—The melancholy intelligence •
death of his Royal Highness the Duke of Orleans, bas totod
profound impression in this place. It is the subject Of ;01l
conversation. Our Court is greatly affected by this melee
event. I
THE HAGUE, JULY 17.—His Majesty King Willim ftlijAitHe'
rick, Count of Nassau, gives audience every day. tis
that he will leave the Hague in the course of this week- a4sf
General Nepven, his Majesty's Aide-de-Camp, setsoutL
for Paris, to convey to his Majesty the King of the Freoccre
the whole Rojal Family, the expression of his esty'aslil tlis
condolence on the melancholy death of his Royal Higeer-
Duke of Orleans. f the
All the elections of Members of the Second Chamber of
States-General are now known. Of the 19 Deputies oher4 io
out by rotation, ten have been elected, of the nine ot?!,te
room of whom new Deputies have been chosen, five D 7.
quested their constituents not to re-elect them.
DLTCh lON U:.—AMSTERDAM, JULY 18. '
NOPCY• B''
Actual Dett, 241 per Cent
.Jitto, ditto 5 per cepa. -
Arnett Sendic,4% percent. 93% ;81t t
Ditto, ditto, 3% per cent
Commercial company, 4% per cent l44lti
Ditto (1835 and 1837) 5 per cent.. ....... )4 %,""
Loan 1837, 5 per cent. .........
Exchange on London, One month
Two months 12 5
Hamburgh, One 35 75
Two months 35 5a
Dutch Papers, July 19
AUSTRIAN UN Ds.—Vturota, Jots 9
flveper Cants. Metalliques
1(0)4:i
Four per Cents. l7g
Three par Cents.
Rank Shares ..............
THE VIEW OF THE THAMES I' A.s
os'
MEDWAY BY THE LORI) MAYOR, AS C
- -
SERVATOR. ,ota
race,
Mr. Smith, the chief clerk in the Town Clerk's-en, bit`
Mr. Johnston, the Lord Mayer's private secretary; hatoi n
during the last two days engaged in making prepernteed'
the reception of the Lord Mayor's and the Lado._,t
guests at Rochester, where the grand dinner is to 7,-peig,P;
and at Southend, at which the nobility and gentry of t4.l7,chey-
bourhood are to partake of a splendid d6euner a la. P 7
with the Right Hon. Baronet and his Lady. tO'esr
The Lords of the Admiralty have issued instructions
tain Bullock, R.N., to render every assistance and pa the
dation to the Conservator of the Thames and MedvraY,er to,
survey, and Captain Bullock has ordered his small stgw,io el
follow that in which the view is to be taken, for the ger
the ladies. ttd tb°
The Aldermen who have already passed the Chair,
eel cop'
Sheriffs, are amongst the invited persons to the itorvocot
nected with the Corporation, as are the following lc Toe")
the Corporation : The Recorder, the Chamber/ail), lb Toe
Clerk, the Common-Sergeant, the Comptroller, thee under
biancer, the City Solicitor, the Secondaries, th
Kb
Sheriffs, and the Clerk of the Peace. viers
Amongst the distinguished persons invited to the rdiof '
are not connected with the Corporation, are the 1,4
roeete
Admiralty, the Secretary of the Admiralty, the 1.1•P
tives of the City, the Fort Major at the Tower. with
The invitatior, to the nobility and gentry W rula lobe!'
Lord Mayor and Lady Mayoress, include a grat
31embers of both Houses of Parliament.
The water bailiff's six-oared shallop, with his state Wates, sotil
a six-oared shallop, with the city watermen in
rincifie
their d,Topeor
the boat and men of Captain Fisher, the p.:Liogh'
master of the port of London, are to be in attendance w
ont the excursion. aMwe'
Each invited person has received, along with
tahleirl,fli,„...e,,tosbsece
map of the various points to be inspected omens
Medway, and a card contag the arrangement° to, where
for the dinner on Friday, at the Crown Inn; Recve,s
bes 6
dishes will be laid for between 160
std 200.
Mayo'' ...11
Alderman Coeland was the l Lord _ that occ.
s,lleilo,aneyr,t:hriae,l:tfyntthteheretmaons,ntidist septennial view was taken, and uPfuthere Wet!,
tinwgeurisehed
ship's hospitality. most srlend and Loro
pen"' partakers of
co toe
The Constitucional of Barcelona annoy n
..terro•
execution of Felipo, after having undergone sole
Journalgationa i.sdt a
treceived t spiritual
the little consolation
be:ll,s_l:,:jnunitedti,
under the orders of a chief named Pla_ de":_". The
broken up, and has entered Franco one by °":,,,jee
Spanish French
rebels, a
French frontier.
rewhsoaithl
had
do
choanvceeft;ierdresttheeduitseeniveos.
0-n
the