The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-05 00:00:00

as some branches of the spinning trade. But
taking the two, and calculating them together,
I believe I am perfectly right when I state that, at no
period in the history of our spilling and manufacturing
interests, has the balance applicable to profits
and wages been greater than during the past
year. The application of capital in new mills,
and the improvement of old ones and machinery,
have alse been much greater in the past year. With re-
gard to the woollen trade, it is a source of no small sails-
facf on that an improvement has taken place in this
branch too, because it fully bears out the statement
which has been made of the improvement of the people.
A great, in fact the larger, portion of our woollen trade
is supported by the home market, and, of course,
the increase of this market bespeaks an improvement in
the condition of the poor man. The flax trade, I may
state with confidence, has undergone a considerable im-
provement; indeed, I may state that the increase has
been upwards of twenty per cent.; but it is very
likely this increase is attributable to the removal of some
of the restrictions on this trade. Still, the difference
which has taken place in our flax manufacture speaks
favourably of the improvement of the condition of the
people, notwithstanding the difficulty that may exist to
estimate the quantity applicable to home consumpt ion.
It may be asked, have our foreign demands justified this
increase in our manufactures ? Now, if we run
through the articles of British produce which have Leen
exported this year, we shall find that the amount of
exports has been larger than in any former period.
There has, however. been a falling cif in two items—coals
and cotton twist. With regard to coals, I believe I may
state that this has resulted not from a falling off in the
demand, but from the strike among. t the workmen in the
mining districts, which no doubt Hon. Gentlemen are
aware of. With regard to cotton-twist, it will be seer.
that the item shows a falling off of 50,000,000
pounds. I believe, however, that this difference in the
exports arises, not from any indisposition on the part of
our foreign neighbours to take this article of British
produce, but to the great amount of consumption which
has taken place in the home market. All our manu-
facturers in this article have been, I may say, more
than fully employed, nevertheless they have been
unable to supply the home as well as the foreign market.
But we must look beyond this to ascertain the improved
condition of the people; we must look to the consump-
tion of those articles which are regarded as the neces-
saries of life. The customs are, perhaps, a better test of the
pewer of consereption than the excise ; but the excise
may be considered as showing the people's power of
expenditure ; and of melt, spirits, and soap, there has
been an increase. Looking at the articles of tea,
sugar, and tobacco, the gradual increase which was tak-
ing place afforded a satisfactory proof of the improved
condition of the people. Although the returns of the
savings' banks are liable to some exceptions, yet, as
connected with other proofs of prosperity, the increase :
in deposits, and the diminution in withdrawals, are
very pleasing circumstances, Another satisfactory
proof is the great increase in the returns of
all tee railways—thus showing either an in-
crease in traffic for business purposes, or a greater
power of expenditure for the purposes of recreation. It
may, indeed, be doubted whether this prosperity be of a
permanent character. I know that last year very great
doubts were entertained, though I ant not aware upon
what data they were founded, whether the improve-
merit which then manifested itself would continue for :
any length of time. But looking at the state of trade, and
the moderate price of raw materials, and looking also
at the fact, that no foreign markets are glutted, and
scarcely any overstocked, and considering, further, that
there is an abundance of capital, which in every
manufacture is the great element of prospe-
rity, I cannot see any reason to apprehend that
there is any exaggerated spirit of speculation in con-
nexien with the trade and manufactures of this country.
The new banking regulations, although their appli-
cability to the circumstances of this country can only
be tested by •experience—(Hear, hear)—those regu-
lations have proved a salutary check upon an over-
spirit of speculation, I believe that that spirit of
speculation has been absorbed by reckless railway
undertakings. Although I am fully sensible of the
importancelof such undertakings. and of the benefits I
which they confer by giving employment to la-
bourers of various kinds, and otherwise benefiting I
the country, I think is impossible to see the
exaggerated calculations made as to the result of I
those undertakings, without feeling that this is one of '
the dangers by which the country is menaced.—
(Hear,
hear) This is a danger also, to which, I
under our manufacturing system, we are unavoid-
ably subject ; but for that evil there is no
remedy except that of producing in the minds of the
manufacturers a spirit of foresight, and in the minds of
the operatives a saving disposition. Sir, the great pros- I
perity of this country has undoubtedly acted upon its
finances—(Hear, hear)—it has, undoubtedly, increased
its resources ; but it is impossible not to see that this
change of circumstances really originated in the adoption '
of the income-tax. I will not discuss the question whether
it be or be not (as we understood the Hon. Gentleman) a
convenient or proper kind of tax ; I only state the
fact that it has accomplished the great object
for which it was established. Sir, I believe
the excess of expenditure over income in 1842 was
2,149,0001., the surplus of revenue over expenditure,
in 1845, was, I believe, 3,356,0001., while the advance
require d from the Bank of England in January in this :
year is only one Mir I of what was required in 1842. The
value and price of securities resting upon Government
credit have corresponded to the improvement thus ex-
hibited ' • and this improvement is itself the legitimate
triumph of the wisest policy and the soundest
economy on the part of the Government.
Sir, I trust that the success which has attended the ef-
forts to produce a financial surplus in this country will
operate as an example to other countries labouring
under difficulties of the same character, and that it will
prove to them that, however onerous or however unpo-
pular for a time such a line of conduct may be, honesty
in the long run, for nations as well as for individuals,
is not only the best but the securest policy.—(Cheers.)
However productive may be the other sources of the re-
venue, it must be evident, that if there is any reduction
in this tax there will arise a danger of deficiency. I
confess that it appears to me, that if we
are to have any relief in the shape of the
reduction of other taxation, without considering whether
any further addition may be necessary to our taxation, it
would not be wise to give up such a source of certain
revenue, particularly when we consider that a great
portion of our revenue depends upon indirect taxation,
which is affected by causes over which we have no
control. In my opinion the maintenance of a surplus
revenue is absolutely necessary to support the credit and
reputation of the country, and, believing this, I consider
it would be exceedingly unwise in this House to abandon
such a certain source of revenue. It would be as unwise
in the House and the country to rely on one year of
prosperity, without referring to past years of adversity,
as it would be in an individual to reckon upon one

year of prosperity as the foundation of his ex-
penditure, without reference to adverse years ; and
I trust the House will go along with me
in considering that it is absolutely necessary
to maintain an efficient surplus. I see much in the pre-
sent state of affairs on which to congratulate the coun-
try. I see much grounds for satisfaction with the pre-
sent—much for hope for the future. But I should have
seconded the address of my Hon. Friend with feeling,: of
less satisfaction, if I had felt any anxiety for the future,
or if I thought that the House or the country would
adopt any course which would jeopardise our power or
the maintenance of peace, by adopting any measures
which might convert a positive surplus into a possible
deficiency. I thank the House fbr the attention with
which they have listened to me.—(Cheers.) I apologise
for having detained them so long, and beg to second the
motion of my Hon. Friend.—(Cheers.)
The address having been read from the Chair,
Lore JOHN RUSSELL said it was with great satis-
faction that in the terms of the address proposed by the
Hon. Gentleman opposite, he most readily concurred,
neither scarcely to the observations which fell from those
Hon. Gentlemen had he any thing to object. Neither to
the Speech from the Throne, nor to the speeches which had
been so ably addressed to the House, had he any serious
objection. At the same time there were topics in the
speech of her Majesty, and the address in answer to it,
which, he thought, called for remark on the part
of those Members of the House not immediately
connected with her Majesty's Government. The
first topic of the Speech to which the Ho-
nourable Gentleman alluded to, was the gratifying
circumstance of three foreign Sovereigns having paid
visits to her Majesty, their sovereign, in the course of
the last year. That those visits might pertain to more
amicable relations beta een those Powers and
this country, and thereby tend to maintain
the peace of the world, must be their most
anxious wish and sanguine expectation. And though
the Hon. Gentleman who moved the address, and who
is younger and more ardent than he was, wished that
those inert ased relations of commerce, of amicable
and social intercourse, might rapidly put an end to
the prospect of war, he did not think either that
Her Majesty's Government held that expectation in so
strong a manner as the Honourable Gentleman, for
he perceived that at the same time that her
Majesty's Government expressed their hope for
the continuance of peace, they were taking precautions,
in order, upon the event of war, to defend the honour
and interest of the country. However, it was impossible
not to acknowledge, and he did so with pleasure, that the
prospects for the continuance of peace were not so
clouded with those appearances which last year
shook the confidence of the country in the
maintenance of peace. He was happy, how-
ever, to congratulate the House and country, that
the amicable relations which existed between other
countries were not in danger of being broken. The
Noble Lord, in allusion to the relative position of affairs
between France and this country, went on to .say that,
while he rejoiced, in common with others, upon the
present amicable position of this country with foreign
countries, he begged to say, at the same time, he could
not by any means participate in the praise which her
Majesty's Ministers had thought proper to give them-
selves, on the conclusion of the business of the country
last session.—(Hear, and a laugh.) They praised the
moderation any. wisdom with which they had conducted
the public business. Now, for his own part, he could.
see nothing in the discharge of their public duty by the
present Government that could entitle them to all this
credit for the exercise of their wisdom ; neither could he
discover any act of theirs that could be deemed so very
worthy of all this praise that they seemed so willing to
lavish on their public conduct.—(Hear, and laughter.)
Yes, he would repeat it, he could discover no act of the
present Government that called for this excessive self-
adulation of their great wisdom and moderation.—(A
laugh.) What was the actual state of things whereon
the present Ministry took so much credit to themselves ?
An individual in the employment of the French Govern-
ment in a foreign country was suspected by the French
commander, of conduct tending to disturb the popular
tranquillity in that country, and he was thereupon placed
under arrest, and eventually condemned to solitary eou-

finement, and it was further intimated to him that, in the
event of an insurrection breaking out in the country, he
would be held personally responsible in the event of its
becoming necessary that blood should be shed —(Hear,
hear.) It had been said that there were no sufficient
grounds for this " gross outrage," as it had been called,
upon this individual ; but the French authorities,
not content. with this " gross outrage," had fur-
ther resolved that Mr. Pritchard should not be per-
mitted to remain in the country. In all the circum-
stances that had taken place in this transaction, there
appeared to him (Lord J. Russell) to have been very
serious divisions and misunderstandings. That the com-
mander of the French forces in a foreign country should
deem it a proper course for him to adopt, to remove from
that country an individual whom he had reason to believe
would be instrumental in producing an insurrection
amongst the inhabitants, he (Lord J. Russell) did not
mean to dispute. he French commander might have
deemed that a fair and legitimate course by which to op-
pose an insurrection ; sad he (Lord J. Russell) would
say that an insurrection in that country he would not by
any means wish to see. But he would say, that every
case should be judged by its own merits ; and, there-
fore, he would say, that this French commander was
not, under all the circumstances of the ease, placed in a
situation which would warrant him in placing the indivi-
dual he had alluded to in solitary confinement, and to
tell that individual, that in the event of an insurrection,
he should be responsible for the public peace with his
life, was indeed what it had been termed, namely, a
" gross outrage," and demanded some explanation.—
(Hear, hear.) Now, it seemee to him, that in the whole
of this transaction the present. Government had not acted
in a manner to deserve praise for wisdom. They had not
acted promptly in it ; on the contrary, what were likely
to have been the consequences? Was not a space of four
weeks permitted to elapse before any decisive step was
taken ? and during that time was not this country
under great apprehension that a war would en-
sue ? Under these circumstances, he would say that
her Majesty's present Government were not entitled to
ask for more than moderate and fair credit from the
country for the part they had acted in this transaction.
He could not see what there was in keeping the country
in a state of alarm for so long a time as he had men-
tioned, to entitle the Government to praise; and he did
think they were bound to show that it was to ensure the
safety of the French garrison that the course the French
Commander had taken in reference to Mr. Pritchard had
been done.—(Hear, hear.) While upon the subject of
the French Government, he would say it was not his
wish to allude particularly to the disputes which had
taken place in the discussions in the Chamber of Depu-
ties upon this subject.—(Hear, hear.) It might perhaps
be inconvenient were he to do so now; but the corre-
spondence which had taken place upon the subject be-
tween M. Guizot and another individual, had appeared
in the public newspapers, and he supposed that was
authentic. By that it appeared that a demand wag made
by an individual, which was resisted by the French
authorities, and the letter demanded reparation for what
had followed. Now, he would repeat, that in the whole
of this transaction it did not appear to him there was
anything for which her Majesty's Ministers were entitled
to praise for wisdom or rnoderetion.—(Hear, hear.)
It was very well in discussing questions as to how much
territory—how many isles each country should occupy,
to insist upon maintaining honour, but when they came to
negociations regarding trifling and individual interests,
the question of honour could have little or nothing to
do with it. He would insist upon having their rights,
but with respect to the ;isolated question of honour, he
thought it was better not to make a demand that was
unreasonable. The demand, however, having been made
the negociation ought to be conducted with forbearance
and moderation. Now it did not appear to him that the
negociation had been conducted in this manner. It had
been continually boasted at former periods that this un-
derstanding existing between the two Governments was
different from that of any other Government, either in
England or France. They formed, it was said, a union
of perpetual harmony, which nothing could disturb.
Now, he must say, the events of the past year led him
to think there was no such good understanding as bad
generally been represented, or in fact which ought to
have existed. There was not that ready
acquiescence on the one side, nor that readi-
ness to express satisfaction on the other. In
fact, those two Governments bad been divided by the
press, on the one side, and on the other by a course
which a particular negociation bad taken. But they had
heard denunciations against articles which had appeared
in the press of France directed towards England. Now,
many articles in the Ministerial Press of this country
were in a tone of violence and bluster towards the French
nation, which made him quite ashamed of certain por
Lions of the English newspaper press, He trusted, how-
ever, now that this feeling of prejudice had passed away,
the two nations would maintain peace. He trusted
there would generally exist between them a feel-
ing of mutual national interest—a feeling of na-
tional sympathy a feeling tending to enhance
one great object, namely, the good and peace of both.
He trusted they might see that harmony restored be•
tween the two countries which would lead to one great
purpose and that purpose the consistent mainte-
nance of the interests of the two countries.
When, however, he remembered that the late eulogised I
understanding which subsisted between England and
France had produced the present state of Spain, he
must own that it was a result which any minister,
either in England or France, ought not to boast of. •
He trusted that the existing good understanding be-
tween the two countries would not only continue, but
that it would be ripened into still greater friendship,
and that the influence of the two Governments, wherever
and whenever that influence was exerted, it would be
used for the promotion of commerce, the increase of
freedom, the general diffusion of lino% ledge, and the
suppression of slavery. There was one subject not
touched upon in the speech, but upon which he antici-
pated they should have some explanation from the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. He confessed that he
was not pleased with what he had hitherto heard upon
the subject to which he had alluded, he meant the ap-
pointment of a Commission to inquire into the powers
of the right of search as established in 1831 and 1832.
It did not appear to him that there was any necessity
for a revision of the powers established at that time.
But, however, if the Government thought it right to
disturb the agreement which had been come to between
the two countries, there could be no doubt that it would
be a serious obstacle to the maintenance of har-
mony. He thought they ought themselves, in-
stead of adopting this course, to have man-
fully and fairly entered into a negotiation between
the :three countries, and to have declared on what foot-
ing they proposed to place the right of search, as esta-
blished in 1830 and 1831, instead cf placing itupon the
responsibility!of a Committee of gcntlernen of high honour
tied integrity. Certainly, this did not appear to him to
be fair or advantageous to the people of England. The
people of this country wished to see, and they on his
side of the House were as anxious for the suppression of
the slave trade as any of those who voted for the resolu-
tion of the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool, in
1841. And they naturally look with some jealousy to
any step which could in the slightest degree reduce the
means resorted to for this purpose. The Hon. Gentle-
man who seconded the address had alluded to the visit
of the Emperor of Russia. He said he hoped the Em-
peror would see that the sole interest of both nations de-
pended entirely upon concord and peace. That the Em-
peror would perceive that some of the restrictive duties
placed on English produce diminished the trade and
commerce of his own country. He quite agreed with
the Hon. Gentleman, but he hoped the Hon. Gentleman
would agree with him when he said that it might happen
to the Emperor of Russia to reflect upon the subject which
gave rise to the observation of the Hou. Gentleman, and
lead him to feel its truth. But still the Emperor must
desire, before he complied with the wish of the Hon.
Gentleman, to know if his sister the Queen of England
would direct her Ministers to take off some of the re-
strictive duties imposed on foreign commodities.—(Loud
cheers.) He would not pass altogether to the conside-
ration of foreign affairs without congratulating the
House on a subject which, although it had not been
mentioned in the speech from the throne, had yet been
the subject of much conversation in the country—he
meant the improved state of our commercial relations
with China—(Hear, hear)—and he could not do so
without recollecting that when his Noble Friend the
Member for Tiverton said that he hoped that our com-
mercial relations with China would open and improve
the market for the trade and manufactures of this coun-
try, that statement was received with marked tokens of
dissent from the other side of the House. That opinion,
however, was now found to be perfectly true
and just, and it was in a great measure to the
increase of our commercial transactions with China
flute the present tendency to a revival in the commercial
and manufacturing interests of the country was to be
attributed.—(Hear, hear.) The speech next proceeded
to direct their attention to domestic affairs, and reference
had more particularly been made to the state of Ireland.
He was glad that the Minister of the Crown, acting no
doubt from the information he had received, had been
enabled to advise her Majesty to state that the violence
of political agitation and excitea.ent had abated in that'd,
country, and that symptoms of improvement manifested
in other parts of the country had extended to Ireland.
The accounts which he himself had received from per-
sons who had lately come from Ireland, referred, with
much apprehension, to symptoms which had recently
manifested themselves in that country. It was observed
that the ties which held society together, the ties which
connected the richer class with the poorer, the ties
which bound the priest to his flock, were loosened, and
great apprehensions were entertained that those agrarian
outrages, of which they had recently seen accounts, were
on the increase. That there was no danger of any in-
surrectionary outbreak no one could doubt. That poli-
tical agitation was now as violent as it had been three or
four years ago, no one could aver. But he could
say, that there did not prevail that general
affection towards the Government and Parliament of
this kingdom which ought to prevail in a free country
towards the Government and the Legislature. He could
not help attributing much, although certainly only a
part of this feeling, to the injudicious, and also he
must say, unjust proceedings, which had been taken
agdinst some very leading persons in that country.—
(Cheers.) The country had seen the spectacle of these
persons put upon their trial, of a trial which had lasted
a considerable time, and of sentence pronounced
upon them. Those persons had been sent to prison,
where they had been confined for several weeks, and
when the matter came to be examined before the Su-
preme tribunal of appeal, the whole of the proceedings
had been reversed as irregular and informal. More than
two-of the judges had said that the proceedings with
regard to the jury were unjust and unfair, although they
did not rest their judgment on those grounds, basing
the grounds for the reversal of the judgment on the
badness of some of the counts. One of those Judges,
and that one no less a personage than the Lord Chief
Justice of England, the highest common-law authority
in the realm, had declared that those prisoners had
not been fairly submitted to trial by jury.—(Hear.)
It had been said, that if those sixty names which had

been omitted had been continued on the panel the verdict
might not have been a conviction but an acquittal.
But the Chief Justice had said, that although he hai
no.hing to do with that, he was bound to see that
every subject of her Majesty who was accused
had a fair trial, and was not deprived of his rights, and
more he bad said, that if such proceedings were
to receive countenance, and to be drawn into
a precedent, a trial by jury in Ireland would be a
mockery, a delusion, and a snare.—(Loud cheers.) Was
it possible that the people of Ireland could have any con-
fidence in a Government when they saw that in the con-
duct of that prosecution they had resorted to means
which had been thus condemned by the highest autho -
rity—and when they saw the trial by jury, which was the
safeguard of every subject of the Queen's, and by which
alone they were enabled, out of that House, to discuss
public 'netters freely, was taken from them, and a fraud
substituted in its place.—(Cheers.) There was one part
of those proceedings, however, to which he thought the
particular attention of the_ Right Hon. Gentleman at
the heed of the Treasury ought to be directed. The
right of challenge formerly existed, and formerly when
the sheri If made an incorrect list, there was a remedy which
in anc:ent times was res rted to. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had, as he (Lord John Russell) firmly be-
lieved with the view to better the law regarding juries,
made certain alterations. Lord Denman argued that
that alteration did not prevent the subject
from having a practical remedy, if the clerk
of the peace, recorder, or other authorities
having jurisdiction over the jury-list, neglected
ther duty ; but there were other authorities in West-
minster Hall, who did not take this view of the mutter
—(Hear. hear)—and that there was something in the
statute which precluded the subject from a remedy.
Now, upon a matter of so much importance, there ought
to be no doubt—(Hear, hear)—if any doubt did re ally
exist on the subject, he looked upon it in the light of a
great constitutional wrong. The privilege which the
subject had ,in challenging the array could not be too
clearly defined. If a doubt existed, it was incumbent on
the Government to bring in some measure, enactive or
declarative, so that the subject might have his remedy,
and prevent the recurrence of such a wrong as occurred
in Ireland, where a jury was struck off on a State trial,
although sixty names of persons competent to serve as
jurors were left out.—(Hear, hear.) Another subject
which had been alluded to in the speech, viz., academical
education, was hinted at in such very general terms,
that no person in the House, whatever objection he
might hereafter make, would dissent from those general
allusions. He did not expect that his Right Hon.
Friend the Member for the University of Oxford even
would have any objection to make.—(A laugh.) At the
same time it was understood that some measure was to be
proposed on that subject, to which that phrase had re-
ference, and which, it was said, had deprived
the Government of the assistance of one of the ablest
of its Members. That Right Hon. Gentleman who held
the office of President of the Board of Trade, and who
explained in so luminous a manner the changes in the
tariff—(Hear, hear)—it was said, he repeated, that that
Right Hon. Gentleman had left the Government on ac-
count of the measures which the Ministry were preparing
on the subject of education. He trusted some member
of her Majesty's Government would give some further
explanation of a measure which had been productive of
such a consequence—that disruption in the Government
which evidently had been caused by the conscientious
objections of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had ceased
to be a member of the Government. He knew not what
the nature of that measure might be, but he felt assured
that of whatever nature, it would be liable to:great suspi-
cion, and be probably received with hostility in Ireland
as well as by a portion of the people of England.
He had seen that, with regard to the mode in which the
Bequests Act had been received. He gave his humble
support to that measure. He believed it to be a good
measure, and that it was framed with an honest inten-
tion. He thought it carried into effect, so far as the
nomination of the Commissioners were concerned, and
that was the only part which the executive Government
had to do—he: believed it was carried into effect, as the
speech from the Throne said, " in the spirit in which it
was conceived ;" but it was impossible to deny that that
measure was not brought forward with that calm prepa-
ration which it ought to have received.—(Hear, hear.) It
was mentioned early in the session. It concerned a most
important and difficult point—namely, bequests to a cer-
tain portion of their fellow-subjects, professing the Ro-
man Catholic faith. One would have thought that that
question would have been brought forward earlier, that
those professing the Roman Catholic faith, especially
that some of the archbishops or bishops, would have
been asked their opinions.—(Hear, hear.) It would not
then have been said that an attempt was made to en-
croach on the independence of their religion ; and those
objections would not have been raised to a measure which
the Government—he freely gave them credit for it—
honestly wished to carry into effect. Instead of that,
the measure was brought forward late in the session, in
the other House of Parliament, so that it did not come
down to that House till near the end of the session.
Repeated alterations were made, amendments were
framed, and suggestions offered, which, because there
was no authority from the Roman Catholic prelates,
were not satisfactory with regard to an Act intended for
their benefit, so as to enable them togive their own money.
and to bequeath property for Roman Catholic purposes.
There was no judgment, there was no discretion shown
in the mode in which it was framed.—(Hear.) Why,
then, should they be surprised that certain parts of that
measure were caught hold of as a proof of the intention
of the English Government to attain some hostile in-
fluence over the Catholic Church? They had, there"ore,
done a great mischief. There were persons in Ireland
whose influence ought to be cherished—such men as
Archbishop Crolly and Dr. Murray. What had they
done? They felt it to be their duty to accept office
under the commission, but by the mode in which the
Act was framed they had exposed them to hostility and
insult, which they should be the last in the world to
expose them to.—(Hear, hear.) But there was another
point which he could not refrain from mentioning, be-
cause it was put forth before the people of Ireland, and
he thought naturally put forward as a reason why dis-
trust should be felt. It was this, that for years and
years together those who were now in power counte-
nanced every hostility and insult towards the Roman
Catholics, of alienation and animosity against the Irish
people.—(Cheers.) Those phrases were now retnrned
on them. They knew perfectly well how sensitive the
people of England were on this subject—how much the
Protestant religion was endeared to them, and
how unwilling they were to see anything like
a Roman Catholic supremacy in this country.
They knew the pride of the people of England, and
how ill they would bear the statement that Ireland had
not only her fair share in legislation, but that the Irish
Members of Parliament governed the country. Yet,
knowing this, they did everything they could to excite
ill feelings, and to provoke animosities.—(Hear, hear.)
Wherever they perceived the spark of religious intole-
rance, they blew it into a flame ; wherever they per-
ceived the plant of national prejudice growing, they
watered it and trained it till the noxious and poisonous
tree overspread the land.—(Loud cheers from the Op-
position.) Such was their conduct for years ; and now,
when they adopted a better policy—now, when they
wished those things to be forgotten—now, when they
desired that Ireland should be conciliated—how could
they wonder that those who were the agitators of Ire-
land—that those who had led the people to unpopular
victory, should remind them of the past ? How could
they wonder that the phrases " surpliced ruffians,"
" demon priesthood," and others of the same
kind, should be thrown back upon them, when
they, themselves wished that they might fall into
oblivion, and that something more conciliatory might be
devised ?—(Hear, hear.) Such was the retribution—
(Cheers from the Opposition)—the not unjust retribu-
tion—,Renewed cheers)---that fell upon men who, in-
stead of appealing to sound and enlightened opinion,
endeavoured to get hold of some popular prejudice or
some mistaken notion, and to find their power in mis-
leading and deluding their countrymen.—(Cheers.) At
the same time, he could not but feel satisfaction, with re-
spect to this subject and many others, in seeing that
the present Government had adopted views which many
of those who acted with him (Lord J. Russell) had long
since adopted ; that with regard to Ireland especially,
after endeavouring to force on that country a Bill which
would deprive it of its electoral franchise, they had re-
frained from the attempt, and had admitted by their Bill
of last year, although that Bill was a most defective one
in itself—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Shiel)—had ad-
mitted that their former Bill was not fit for the Govern-
ment to carry.—(Cheers.) Yes, those were the very
words used by the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear,
hear.) The Bill for which the Conservative party had
struggled for years—for which they had crowded to
that House—for which they had, in repeated divisions,
mustered in order to gain a majority, and to
force it against the Government of the day,
that Bill was now admitted to have been an injustice,
and when they themselves proclaimed this, when they
themselves admitted that such was their course, they
could not wonder either that he should rejoice in the re-
cantation of the opinions which they then held, or that
the people of Ireland should still feel a want of confi-
dence in them when they now said, "It is true that what
was formerly offered to you was an injustice, but what
we now offer to you is a boon." With respect to other
questions also—with respect to the question of educa-
tion, we were told that nothing was so dangerous as to
give to a Committee of the Privy Council any power
over the grants for the purposes of education. A grant
was nearly denied for this purpose by the Hon. Gentle-
men opposite, and it was only by a majority of two in
a Committee of the whole House, that the grant was ob-
tained. I need not remind the House that the doctrines
held on that occmion were of the most extraordinary
kind. The Right Hon. Secretary of State for the Home
Department was of' opinion that if they gave such
power to the Committee of the Privy Council, it would
be a despotic and irresponsible body, and if that
despotic power were used fur the purpose of educating
Dissenters, the Established Church would be in
danger. Such was the nature of the doctrine
held on this question by the Right Honour-
' able Gentleman. The First Lord of the Trea-
L sury held an opinion not quite so exaggerated, but still
• nearly similar to the former, and what do I see now ?
To my great satisfaction, Sir, a speech that has fallen
from the Noble Lord, the President of the Council, in
which he states that the transfer of the power from the
Treasury to the Committee of the Privy Council, was
absolutely necessary in consequence of the increase of
• the business of this department. The Noble Lord is at
I the head of the educational department of that Com-
mittee, and he say's, the transfer was absolutely essential.
This is an extraordinary speech, and I only wonder how
the Noble Lord managed to slide over this transfer when,
; on the votes of the other House of Parliament, there was
entered an address from their Lordships, presented by
the Archbishop of Canterbury to the Queen, praying
that any grants for the purposes of education might
not depend on this House of Parliament only, but be
founded only on a legislative measure. His Lordship in
his speech slurs all this over, but I wonder he had not
told us that the Archbishop of Canterbury and other

THE SUN, LONDON, 'WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 5, 1845.

Noble Lords had been entirely in the wrong. There
remains one topic—a very gratifying top's, -as
it stands at present. It is the state of the
manufacturing and commercial interests of the coun •
try. The Honourable Gentleman who seconded
the address has given us a very interesting account of
how every manufacturing interest, even the iron trade,
which did not partake of the prosperity of last year,
is now in a comparatively flourishing condition. But
while that is perfectly true, and while we have every
reason to be thankful to Divine Providence for the
bountiful harvest with which we were blessed last year,
there is another reflection occurs to me, which I do not
mention either to damp our expectations, or diminish
the force of what has fallen from the Hon. Gentleman
opposite, but for our warning as legislators. In 1836,
on the 4th of February, on the very day of the year on
which we are now met, an Hon. Friend of mine who
seconded the address went through the various items of
iron, and wool, and silk, and cotton, and proved that
there had been a large increase in the export of them
all compared with the precious five years. He drew an
elaberate picture of the state of the country—and at
that time we had had, in 1835, a favourable harvest—
but we must recollect, that however much we might in-
dulge in these anticipations, it happened that 1838, 1839,
and 1840, brought us to a very different conclusion ;
that however flourishing our manufactures then
were after 1836, when we had a bad harvest,
when it did not please Providence to con-
tinue that state of plenty which we had enjoyed
and taken advantage of, we suffered most severely both
in trade and manufactures. No man can expect the
course of the seasons to be altered, or to have in this
country every year those bounteous harvests with ehich
we have been blessed in years past. If we cannot ex-
pect that, can we do anything to remedy the evil which
deficient harvests occasions ? I think we can; not by
interfering with the course of Providence, but by look-
ing to another dispensation of the same Providence,
which enables men to exchange the produce of their
own country for that of the distant regions of the earth.
Lrt us, then, consider in the course of the present year,
and endeavour to ward off the storm, which in some
season of deficient harvest may come upon us, by giving
to the productions of other countries, which wo can
enjoy, a freer inlet into this country than our present
lass allow.—(Hear, hear.) It would only be acting in
consonance with the principles of the present Govern-
ment, and of gentlemen en the other side of the House,
who do not hold with the great society that met yester-
day—(Hear, hear)—that the protection of British: n-
dustry is the true way to obtain a permanent and flou-
rishing condition of the country. On the contrary, with
respect to many articles they consider that principles
opposed to those of protection principles, which if not
entirely free trade are known as free trade, are those
by which the intercourse of nations ought to be regulated.
and by which this country ought to be governed. If
then they continue to hold these opinions—if they differ
from the great authority of those who yesterday cele-
brated the principles of protection, let them give us the
benefit of their convictions, though they might be called,
as they have represented us to be, the enemies of agri-
culture.—(Hear, hear.) The question for them to decide
was whether they should do in a season of prosperity,
calmly, deliberately, and with all the dignity of legisla-
tors, that which we may have to do hereafter hastily
under the pressure of popular clamour, when they might
be unable to deny that which they might be afraid to
grant.—(Hear, hear.) If they think it best, with respect
to Ireland, to take advantage of the present time, and
boast that Ireland is more tranquil, then, I say, when
trade is prosperous shall we lose that opportunity ? I
think that if you were pressed by a foreign war, and
internal commotion, you would give Ireland almost every
thing she asks for, except repeal.—(Hear, hear.) If
that is the case, take advantage of the present favourable
opportunity, and show yourselves worthy to rule that
great nation you are called on to govern.—(Cheers.)
Mr. MILES said he should not have risen at all but
from the understanding that on Friday week the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer would make his financial state-
ment, and the remarks of the Noble Lord. What the Noble
Lord meant to express with respect to agriculture, be
was at a loss to understand. Did the Noble Lord mean
to say that protection was the bane of agriculture ?
(Hear, hear.) If the Noble Lord entertained this opi-
nion when he was a member of the Government, or even
last year, why did he propose a fixed duty ?—(Hear,
hear.) Had he found it convenient to change his
sentiments, or had he allied himself with the
Anti-Corn-law League ?—(Loud cheers from the
Ministerial benches.) The Noble Lord had appeared to
think that the agricultural interest was in a state of
prosperity—(Cries of "No, no")—and he thinks this the
very best time at which another alteration in the corn-
laNs might be made. Now, if ever there was a time at
which it behoved an Administration to be cautious—
(Hear, hear, and ironical cheers)—this is that time. In
the north of England the harvest might have been a good
one, but in the south, west, and east, it had not been
an average. As they were given to understand that the
income tax is to be continued, he rose to claim on behalf
of the agricultural body, in any reduction of taxation
that may take place, that their interests tn.ty not be for-
gotten.—(Loud laughter.) As to the speech from the
Throne, and the address in answer to it, he had nothing
to say against them; but though he gave a general con-
sent, still he would not pledge himself to any of the de-
tails.

The Right Hon. E. GLAI)STONE (who sat at the
lower end of the House) rose amid a marked silence.
He said, be was aware that it would be inexcusable on
his part if he were to endeavour to relieve his Right
Hon Friend at the head of the Government from the
task of replying to the numerous imputations the Noble
Lord opposite had chosen to bring against him, but he
could not without apology intrude himself on the House
with what related immediately to himself. He would
not venture on such a step were it not that the acts of
public men were acts in which the public at large had
an interest, and that however irksome and offen-
sive it might be to detain a public assembly
charged with high functions with matters
in which self appeared to be prominent,
yet the object was to remove misunderstandings by
which great interests might be liable to prejudice. The
Noble Lord would allow him to thank him for the kind
manner in which, in spite of the difference of rank, sta-
tion, and talent, by which they were parted, he had
thought fit to make reference to him. He now felt
placed in a situation in which it was difficult to recon-
cileHf t under
apparently conflicting duties. On one hand he
fully recognised the claim of the House to be fullybu
t in-
or
omuseed ()
of
a t he
ee ep mt o
otffiiv e ees
wl
led.
ich
the Crown,
the A(
oirb Members
undergo
rs
the scarcely less grave responsibility of qui;ting it. He,
t
therefore, could not refuse to attempt some explanation
of what had recently occurred with regard to himself.
But, on the other hand, he could not help seeing great
inconvenience in any detailed explanation, or of refe-
rence to measures not yet under the consideration of the
House. Ile should, therefore, endeavour to state simply
and frankly the motives which had actuated him in the
painful step to which he had had recourse ; and he must
appeal to the patient indulgence of the House to receive
that statement, not as a controversial or party one, not
as an argumentative justification of his own conduct, but
as an explanation, which be trusted would prevent mis-
apprehensions that might be mischievous. In what he
had to say he could cast no blame on any one. He had
acted according to what he believed his own position
and the situation of those with whom, and under whom,
as a servant of the Crown, he had acted required. If any
syllable should reflect on those whom he regarded and
esteemed, he hoped such a feeling would be
put aside and disclaimed by them.—(Hear, hear,
hear.) At all events he might gain one object
of public utility, by first stating what was NOT the
cause of his resignation. He had not resigned, as had
been supposed in some quarters, on account of any
matters connected with that department of public affairs
of which he was entrusted with the charge. He had
not resigned on account of any question, so far as the
intentions of the Government were known to him, con-
nected with the Established Church in Ireland. A cause
which he was about to name to the House was the sole
reason of his resignation ; and again he was driven to
advert to himself, and what he had said and done in
former years. He had taken it on himself, some years
ago, whether wisely or unwisely was not now the
question, to state ,to the world, and that in a form
the most detailed and most deliberate—not under the in-
fluence of the moment—not in the heat and rancour of
debate—but on mature consideration, the views which
he believed were most conformable to the truth. With
respect to the relations between a Christian State and
the profession of its religion, and the policy with respect
to it. Of all questions, perhaps, that could be raised, the
question of that policy was, in its ultimate effect, the
greatest and most important. The manner in which he
took on himself the responsibility of treating it was
most deliberate. But he had never been guilty of the
folly which some had charged on him, of holding that
any theories, even in such a department of human of
fairs, could be alike, and in all cases immutable and in-
flexible. But, on the other hand, he had a strong con-
viction that those who had borne a solemn testimony to
opinions of great importance on conscientious questions,
ought not to be responsible for the making any material
departure from the principles he had so stated. Now
it will be in the recollection of the House that
his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government,
at the close of last session, declared in general terms the
nature of the inquiry he was about to make into the pos-
sibility of extending education in Ireland. He like •
wise indicated the spirit in which he would treat that
important matter. As he had said before, he was not in
possession of more of the intentions of Government. He
only referred to them so far as they were known to him,
and with regard to what they contemplated with respect
to the Roman Catholic College of Maynooth, he knew
nothing that might not be fairly and justly inferred from
what the Right Hon. Baronet said on that occasion.
Those views were, he considered, a great departure from
what he thought the best and most salutary to maintain, in
accordance with the state of the institutions and opinions
of the people of this country. He did not wish to go into
any controversy on his own opinions, or discuss what im-
portance they bore in his own eyes, or the consequences
to which they might lead ; but he felt bound to state
that he thought the measures contemplated involved a
material departure from them. Whenever those mea-
sures should come under the consideration of the House,
he should apply himself to them without any selfish re-
gard for mere consistency, and with the single view of
arriving at such a conclusion as, on the whole, the in-
terests of the country seemed to require. But it was one
thing to discharge that duty for oneself, and quite ano-
ther thing, after what he had declared would have
'been right, to be a party, as a Minister of the
Crown, to the recommendation of such a change.i
em
He would not detain the House by explaining to t
how difficult it was to form a correct judgment upon
matters involving so many consideratijotntisdrawn from so
many opposite quarters, yet he felt duty, .
re-
turn for that public confidence which
had
been
vested in
him, to explain why he was no longer a member of her
Majesty's Government. Upon subjects which he under-
stood it was the intention of the Government to bring
forward, he thought it would be right to place himself in

a position in which he could exercise a free and unfet-
tered judgment, and, as far as might be, an unsuspected
judgment. On that account he had taken a course most
painful to his feelings, and separated himself from men
with whom, and under whom, he had long acted in
public life, and of whom, he was bound to say,
although he had no longer the honour of serving his Most
Gracious Sovereign in association with them, that he
continued to regard them with unchanged sentiments
both of public regard and private attachment. He had
now stated as much as was necessary to prevent any
erroneous impressions, to discharge himself from that
responsibility which devolved upon him, and at the same
time had taken pains to limit his observations, so that
premature discussion upon those topics might not ensue.
I They all knew that the subject of the Roman Catholic
Church in Ireland, the College of Maynooth,: and things
immediately connected with it, were regarded with very
sensitive feelings by the people of this country. In ad-
verting to these things, he felt it his duty at the same
moment distinctly to state that he was not prepared to
take part in any religious warfare against the measures
which his Right Hon. Friend might propose. He could
understand the principles on which her Majesty's Go-
vernment acted ; and he had even ventured to vindicate
the principles on which a Christian State allies itself, for
religious purposes, with a Christian Church ; but as
men's minds had become more liberal, and as political
opinions and parties had -undergone so much modifica-
tion, he felt himself bound frarkly to state that he could
not undertake to draw distinctions unfavourable to his
Roman Catholic fellow subjects in Ireland, but trusted,
with a fervent hope, that they would be regarded by the
Government with the same favourable sentiments as
members of any other profession of Christianity. He did
not wish to say anything that might prejudge the question
but would ccnsider it fully and calmly when it was
brought under the notice of the House. He would, how-
ever, again distinctly state, that he was not prepared to
take part in any religious warfare against a measure
such as it was anticipated might be introduced, uor to
draw distinctions between Roman Catholics, on the one
hand, and other classes of his fellow Christians, on the
other.—(Hehr, hear, from the Opposition.) It was un-
necessary for him further to detail his views to the
House. He would ressrve his own judgment on this,
as on other matters. He was far from attributing any
blame to his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Go-
vernment or any other member of it, for any dereliction or
inconsistency in the measures about to be brought under
the notice of the House, as far as he was apprised of
them ; and he had only to conclude by thanking the
House for the attention with which they had listened to
him whilst he made explanations which recent events
and public duty rendered- necessary.—(Cheers.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL then rose amid profound silence
and addressed the House-as follows :—Sir, I feel confi-
dent that this House will show a generous regard for the
strength of private feelings and personal esteem by bear-
ing with me while I allude to my Right Hon. Friend,
instead of commencing by adverting to subjects of deep
interest, which have been introduced in the course of this
discussion. The subject which has bet n brought under
the notice of the House by my Right Hon. Friend is one
of deep interest to myself and to my colleagues. For
the abilities of my Right Hon. Friend I entertain the
highest admiration—an admiration only equalled by my
respect for his private virtues.—(Loud cries of " Hear,
hear," and cheers from both sides of the House.) I con-
firm, in every respect, the statement made by my Right
Hon. Friend. My Right Hon. Friend did intimate at a
very early period to his colleagues that it would:be im-
possible for him to co• operate with them as a Member of
the Government, and with the responsibility and entire
participation a hich that station implies, in the measures
which they had in contemplation with regard to educa-
tion. If my Right Hon. Friend did not:immediately
press his resignation, I am entirely responsible, being
unwilling to the latest moment of forfeiting the advan-
tages of a colleague who was capable of rendering such
eminent services to the country, and who was so distin-
guished an ornament of this House. In order to pre-
vent all misapprehension, I think it right to state
that my Right Hon. Friend did not resign on
account of any Question of commercial policy.
For the three years that I have been connected officially
with my Right Hon. Friend, and during which we have
introduced several measures connected with finance and
commerce, I feel it my duty openly to avow that it was
impossible that any men could act together with so little
divergence of opinion between them. My Right Hon.
Friend, being no :longer a Member of the Government,
felt himself precluded, by motives of delicacy, from ex-
plaining the nature of those measures which the Govern-
ment have in contemplation, but as I am not precluded
by any such motives I think it better distinctly to state
the cause of the difference of opinion between us.
I am sure the House will recollect that on the motion
of the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Wyse) last session
that I, as the organ of the Government, conveyed an
intention on the part of the Government regarding the
education of the Irish people to this effect—that the
Government would, during the recess, apply themselves
to the great question of academical education
in Ireland. I admitted that looking to the
population—looking to the state of that country with
respect to Universities—looking to the state of Scotland,
with respect to the opportunities there for academical
education—and seeing that England had the great Uni-
versities of Oxford and Cambridge, and that in the metro-
polis another University had been recently established
—seeing that in Scotland there were not less than five
Universities affording opportunities for academical edu-
cation—looking to the state of Ireland, Kith only one
in that country, with the exception of the Belfast Insti-
tution, I was disposed to admit, that in Ireland there
were not the same facilities for academical education that
existed elsewhere.—(Hear, hear.) I did not make that
statement to escape from any temporary difficulty. I
made that statement with the full intention of fulfilling
any plsdge or engagement I might make or imply.
I do not shrink from those declarations.—(Hear, hear.)
lam prepared to the full extent to fulfil them. We have
considered the question, and at an early period of the
present session, will lay before Parliament a measure
giving increased facilities for academical education in
Ireland, and open to all classes of her Majesty's subjects
in that vountry.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.)
I stated also, with reference to that particular grant, to
which, as my Right Hon. Friend states fairly, much re-
ligious excitement attaches—l say that at the close of
the last session, notwithstanding the feelings with which
this grant is considered by a large body in this country,
I did not shrink from declaring that among other
institutions connected with academical institutions, the
state of the College of Maynopth would be brought
under the consideration of Parliament. We intend to
make a proposal to the Honse, and I will frankly state
on this, the first day of the session, that it is our inten-
tion to propose to Parliament a liberal increase of the
vote for the College of Maynooth.--(Hear, hear, from
the Opposition.) When I was on the Opposition
benches a motion was made for the purpose of taking
from the College of Maynooth the allowance which has
been annually granted. I stated thee, it is some years
ago, that it appeared to me that an engagement had been
entered into by the Irish Parliament., which was exclu-
sively Protestant, to provide domestic education for the
ecclesiastics of the Roman Catholic Church. I said I
did not think that engagement was fulfilled by a
merely nominal vote. The engagement was to sup-
ply the wants of ecclesiastical education, by the
foundation of colleges for education. In that country
the population has increased ; and such bring the case,
and the means of foreign education having been dimi-
nished, I say we are only acting in accordance with the
implied and honourable engagements of the Irish Parlia-
ment, in supplying increased funds for the education of
the ecclesiastics of that country. But I will also state that
we do not intend to accompany that increased vote by
any regulations with respect to doctrine or discipline of
that Church, which can diminish the grace and favour of
that grant.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear," from the Op-
position.) I rejoice in having this opportunity at the
commencem. nt of the session, for making frankly this
declaration, because' there is no subject by which reli-
gious feeling may be more easily excited. I refer
to the retirement of the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman in proof of the sacrifice which we have
made, by the danger to which I may possibly
expose my colleagues, by the apprehensions which
may be created among -a large and sensitive class,
notwithstanding the endeavours of my Right Hon.
Friend to prevent it. I may, I say, refer to this as a
conclusive proof of the disposition of the Government on
this subject. The Right Hon. Baronet adverted to the
insinuations which had been thrown out by the Noble
Lord (Lord J. Russell), who could not resist the oppor-
tunity of taking a petty party advantage of the seces-
sion of his Right Hon. Friend, and attempting to poison
the minds of the Irish people, and diminish the grace
and favour of those projected measures. The Right
Hon. Baronet adverted to the Catholic Bequests Bill,
which he said had been introduced without compulsion,
or even suggestion, by the Government, who had no
other view than to improve the condition of Catholic
charities in Ireland. They had appointed those distin-
guisbed and amiable Catholic prelates, and did not at all
interfere with the appointment of Secretary to the Commis-
sion. Who could wonder that feelings of national animosity
were cherished by the people of Ireland, when a gentle-
man, of the Noble Lord's position, repeated such ex-
pressions as " surpliced ruffians," which he (Sir R. Peel)
denied most positively had ever been used or countenanced
by himself, or any of his colleagues. The Right Hon.
Baronet complimented, in a marked manner, the mover
of the address, who, he hoped, would frequently dis-
play to the House the talents and discretion of which be
had given so distinguished a proof on that night. Also
the seconder (Mr. Baring), who, he trusted, would
frequently inform the House upon those commercial
affairs with which hp was so intimately conversant.
He repudiated the " small insinuations " of
.the
Noble Lord, which wholly arose from
party feeling.
He rather thought that the Noble Lords temper was
disturbed by the contrast of her Majesg s speech that
day with former speeches, of which t_he laugh.) The
present speech congratulated Noble Lord had
been the author.—(Hear,
hear, and
lated the House and the country
on the state of trade and commerce— the increase of
manufacturing industry, and above all, the state of the
revenue—c Ministerial '
heers)—and he supposed that
these allusions suggested to the Noble Lot reminis-
cences very distasteful to him, and calculated to disturb
that temper in which the Noble Lord usually met the
House at the beginning of a session.—(Laughter.) Ecce
lacrytnas istas quia, non lacrymalnlis laugh.)
The Noble Lord had referred to a quarrel which had
taken place, at a distance of 4,000 miles from Europe,
between a gentleman named Pritchard and an officer in
the French naval service. In respect to that quarrel, and
the matters which arose out of it, the Noble Lord was
of opinion that both Governments were bound to take
steps to prevent so lamentable • a consequence
as a war between France andEngland. Now,
the Noble Lord was also of opinion that the French
officer was justified in taking measures to prevent revolt
in an island of which France had the actual sovereignty;
and if revolt was meditated, and that French lives were
menaced, Mr. Pritchard being found to be active in pro-
meting the revolt and the attack upon the French, the
' officer had, by the law of nations, the right to interfere,