The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-08 00:00:00

DEBTOR AND CREDITOR BILL.

Lord ASHBURTON presented a petition, signed by
between 600 and 700 of the most respectable tradesmen
of Newcastle, praying for a remedy of the evils which
the Bill of last session had occasioned, and said he trusted
the session would not pass without some remedy being
provided.
Lord BROUGHAM said he had a petition, very nu-
merously signed by the tradesmen of London and West-
minster, on the same subject. They wished for a re-
medy, not by renewing imprisonment for debt, but that
they might be placed on the same footing with regard
to small debts as creditors for larger amounts.
IRISH CONSTABULARY FORCE.

The Marquis of NORiIANBY, after presenting a
petition from Mr. Charles Burnes, late Clerk of the
Rolls in Ireland, for increased compensation for the loss
of his office, begged to correct a misrepresentation made
by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Stanley), last night,
with respect to the appointment of Colonel Macgregor
to the Inspector-Generalship of the constabulary force
in Ireland. He deprecated the laughter and applause of
Noble Lords who were perfectly ignorant of the
circumstances, and moved for a return of the
date or the appointment of Colonel Macgregor.
That appointment took place, not as the Noble Lord
asserted, when the late Oovernment were in e2tretnis on
a charitable bequest ; but in May 1839, when they were
in their utmost strength. This was evident from the
result of Sir John Y. Buller's motion ; and, therefore,
he hoped that their Lordships would not refuse the re-
turn.

Lord STANLEY could not help thinking that the
Noble Marquis had exhibited some unnecessary warmth
on this subject. The assertions which he made last
night were founded on evidence given by Mr.
Drummond, the late Under Secretary for
Ireland. The Noble Marquis, just previous to
his quitting the Government, contemplated making
the alterations complained of, and those alterations
were subsequently carried into effect by the Noble Lord
who succeeded him. The Noble Marquis had recom-
im nded him to be confident of his dates before he made
these statements. Now, instead of Sir John Yarde
Buller's motion being made in 1831, it was made in 1840,
so that Noble Marquis himself was the party who
had fallen into the mistake. With regar3 to the amend-
ment proposed by the Noble Marquis, it was evident
that the emission was a clerical error. The motion
might stand in its present, and their Lordships might
rely upon having every information on the subject.
The Marquis of NORMANBY said the Noble Lord
had addressed the House with extreme carelessness on
facts. The arrang& ment made some years ago was,
that there acre to be no original appointments except
those of chief constables ; and now the Noble Lord,
eight years afterwards, came forward and stated that a
certain appointment which he complained of did not
come within his objection.
The matter then dropped.
GRANT TO MAYNOOTII.

The Bishop of LITCHFIELD presented a petition
against any additional giant to Maynnoth.
RELIGIOUS ORDERS. •

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city of Cork, praying their Lordships to repeal- the
clauses in the Catholic Relief Bill, and whioh had sub-
sequently
.been confirmed by the Charitable Bequests
Bill, relating to the extinction of Religious Orders.
Lord BREADALBANI presented two petitions from
the county of Argyl, praying their Lordships to take
steps to limit the number of public-houses in England, and
to prevent the sale of intoxicating liquors on the Sabbath.
The Noble Marquis also presented three petitions, one
from Melrose, in the County of Roiburgh, one from the
e Synod of Sterling, and the last from Gordon, ex-
pressing the fear of the petitioners that the privileges of
the Sabbath would be infringed by railway travelling,
Lord PORTMORE stated that it was his intention
after Whitsuntide, to call the attcntion of the House to
the expediency of providing compensation to tenants of
lands fur certain improvements. He would consider the
point, whether he should bring in a Bill as he did last
year, pr ask for a Committee on the subject.
The Earl of DEVON said that he believed it was the
intention of the Government in considering the sanitory
condition of the people of Ireland to make some
provisions for compensation fcr improvements ;
and he had no doubt that there could be no objection to
extend that to this country. Whether the measure
would be :atisfactory to the Noble Lord, or would meet
the object he had in view, was another question.
Lord PORTMAN expressed his gratification at the
statements of the Noble Earl.

SUGAR DUTIES.
On the motion of the Earl of DALHOUSIE, the
House resolved itself into a Committee on the Sugar
I)uies Bill, and, upon the understanding that the discus-
sion should be taken on the third reading on Friday, the
Bill went throu_h Committee without observation.
JUSTICES AND CORONERS.

719 Marquis of NORMAislifWTsied to know

time.

whether it was intended that the House should not sit on
Thursday.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE said it had been arranged
that the House should not sit on Thursday.
The Marquis of NORMANBY observed that such
being the case, he should bring forward his motion with
respect to Justices and Coroners on that day instead of
Thursday, as he had given notice.
The House then adjourned to Friday,

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at Ten Minutes before
Four o'clock.
Petitions were presented against the London, Wor-
cester, and South Staffordshire Railway Bill.
On the motion of Mr. COWPER, the Harrowgate and
Ripon Junction Railway Bill was read a second time, and
ordered to be committed.
On the motion of Mr. E. TENNENT, the Belfast
Improvement Bill was read a second time, and ordered to
be committed.
The Wear Valley Railway Bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed.
The Manchester, Bury, and Rossendale Railway Bill
was read a second time, and ordered to be committed.
The Blackburn, Darwen. and Bolton Railway Bill was
read a second time, and ordered to be committed.
Lord POLLINGTON presented a petition from Pon-
tefract against the grant to the College of Maynooth.
Mr. W. PATTEN presented similar petitions from
different parts of Lancashire.
Mr. BAILEY presented petitions from Hereford on
the subject of the game-laws ; also a petition from
the physicians, surgeons, and apothecaries of that city
against certain port!ons of the Medical Bill.
Mr. BROTHERTON presented petitions from Sal-
ford, praying for the repeal of the Bill for abolishing
imprisonment for debt ; also petitions from Stratford-
upon-Avon and from Salford against any farther
grant to the College of Maynooth ; and a petition
against the Medical Bill.
Sir G. STRICKLAND presented a petition, signed by
2,100 Catholics of Leicester, praying the House to limit
the number of houses for the sale of spirituous liquors,
and to prevent the sale of them on the Sabbath day.
The Hon. Baronet also preseAld a petition from Fleet-
wood deprecating war, and Ti•aying for no further in-
crease in the naval force of this country.
Mr. CHUTE presented petitions from Norfolk against
any increase of the grant to the College of Maynootb.
Mr. B. ESCOTT presented a petition from Mr.
Charla Bird, a barrister of the Temple, complaining of
the abuses in the Crown Court of Exeter, and praying
for a Commission to inquire into the subject.
GRANT TO MAYNOOTd.

Mr. GREENE presented a petition against any grant '
to the College of Maynooth ; also a petition against the
law of settlement.
Mr. LAWSON presented a petition against the grant.
Mr. DENISON presented petitions from different
parts of Surrey against the grant to the College of
Maynooth ; and also petitions praying for the repeal
of the malt duties.
Mr. CHRIbTOPHER presented five petitions from
places in the county of Lincoln, against any further
grant to Maynooth.
Captain JONES presented petitions to the same effect
from the north of Ireland.
Mr. T. EGERTON presented seven petitions from
Wesleyan congregations near Macclesfield to the same
effect; also two petitions from places in Cheshire with
the same prayer. The Hon. Gentleman also presented
a petition against the Parochial Settlement Bill, and a
petition against the Medical Reform Bill.
Mr. PLUMPTRE presented a number of petitions
from the counties of Kent, Yorkshire, Ayr, and Lei-
cester, against any further grant to Maynooth.
Dr. BOWRING presented petitions from Lancashire
to the same effect.
BEDFORD AND LONDON AND BIRMINGHAM
RAILWAY.

On the motion of Mr. 13:STURT, the Bedford and
London and Birmingham Railway Bill was read a second

Mr. TURNER presented a petition against the pro-
posed grant to the College of Maynooth.
MIDDLESBOROUGH AND REDCAR RAILWAY.
On the motion of Lord H. VANE the Middlesborough
and Redcar Railway Bill was read a second time.
On the motion of lord INGESTRE the Oxford, Wor-
cester, and Wolverhampton Railway Bill was read a
second time. The Noble Lord pros. nted a petition
against the Trent Valley Railway Bill; also a petition
from the diocese of Lichfield against the further grant to
Maynooth.
Mr. ENTWISLE presented petitions from Lancashire
against the proposed grant to Maynooth.
On the motion of Mr. BUSFEILD, the Huddersfield
Waterworks Bill was read a second time.
Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition against the im-
portation of hill-coolies into the West Indies ; also a
petition from Bridgewater against the increase of the
naval forces ; also, twenty-three petitions against the
grant to the College of Maynooth ; also, fifty-three
petitions against the sale of intoxicating liquors on the
Sabbath.
Sir W. JOLLIFFE presented a petition from a place
in the county of Somerset against the grant to May-
nooth.
Mr. HAMILTON presented petitions from various
places in Ireland, in favour of Church education.
Mr. CHARTER'S presented a petition from Glou-
cestershire, complaining of agricultural distress, and
praying for relief.
Mr. B. YORKE presented a petition from York,
tord tOU KEEN X Iffeitited a petition from Totnes
against the union of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor.
Mr. VILLIERS presented a petition against the grant
to Maynooth,
Colanel WOOD presented two petitions against the
addit'onal grant to Maynooth.
Captain PEC HELL presented a petition from a sur-
geon in Brighton, named Pickferd against the Physic
and Surgery Bill. The Hon. and Gallant Member, at
the same time, presented petitions signed by forty-
seven medical practitioners, and agreed to at a public
meeting of the profession, held in Brighton, against the
Medical Reform Bill.
Mr. GROGAN presented several petitions from the
inhabitants of Dublin against the proposed increased
grant to the College of Maynooth.
-Sir J. TYRRELL presented several petitions against
the grant to the College of Maynootb.
BURIALS IN LARGE TOWNS.
Lord MAHON'presented a petition from the parish of
Paddington against the interment within the precincts
of large towns.
SCOTCH BANKING SYSTEM.
Captain GORDON presented a petition from Aber-
deen against any interference with the present system
of banking in Scotland.
NOTICES OF MOTION.
Mr. HUTT gave notice that on Thursday next he
would present a petition of an extraordinary character
from the Legislative Council of New South Wales,
praying to have conceded to that colony the right which
had been granted to Canada of importing corn into this
country.
The Hort. Mr3tnEa was
when about to give another notice
on the same subject,
The SPEAKER decided that he could rot do so
until after the other notices had been gone through.
THE CONDITIONCLASSE S. OF THE LABOURING

classes in E
gALAND COngland and Wales.
MPANY.
Evne notice that, in the Committee
Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice that on this day fort-
night he would bring forward a motion resin cting the
colAidirit.iAonTGEoLfEitohNeNElßavvbyougzrai
of Supply, he would ask leave of the House to make an
explanation respecting statements which had been pub-
lished as to his conduct in connexion with the New
Zealand Company.
Captain ROUS took that opportunity of giving no-
tice that when the :question was brought forward he
would move a resolution to the effect that the conduct
of the Directors of the New Zealand Company was op-
posed to the interests and policy of this country.
On the motion of Sir R. FERGUSON the following
return was ordered:—Account of the produce of the
excise duty received on spirits in Ireland, during each
of the years ending the sth day of April, 1844 and 1845;
and. the number of gallons brought to charge, showing
the increase or decrease in gallons and in duty. Ac-
count of the number of gallons of spirits brought to
charge in Ireland, and the duty paid thereon, in the
quartors ending the sth day of April, 1844 and 1845,
showing the increase or decrease. Account of
the number of gallons of proof spirits (distin-
guishing the quantities produced from malt and
from a mixture of malt and unmalted grain) on
which duty was
paid for home consumption in Ireland,
in each quarter of the years ending respectively the sth
Jf April, 1844 and 1845, and in each of the years. Ac-
count of the number of detections and the number of
persons prosecuted for offences in Ireland against the
laws for the suppression of illicit distillation, in each
quarter of the years ending respectively
the sth day of
April, 1844 and 1845, distinguishing those convicted.
Account of the number of persons confined in each gaol
in Ireland for offences against the laws for the sup
pression of illicit distillation on the sth day of January,
the sth day of March, and the Sth day of April, 1845
(in continuation of Parliamentary
Session 1844),
Paper No. 411, of

OREGN.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL movO ed an bumble address to
her Majesty for a copy of the dispatch of Lord Syden-
ham to Lord John Russell of the 9th 01 August, 1841,
respecting the territory in dispute between Great Britain
and America.—Ordered.

MR. MA ZZINI.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM, in answer to a question
from Mr. Duncombe, which was not audible, said that
he was not able to lay before the House any further
information, in reference to the statements made by him
regarding Mr. Muzzini.
SCO ICH AND IRISH BANKS.
Sir ROBERT PEEL announced that he would take
any early opportunity,
of stating to the House what the
measure was which the Government proposed to intro-
duce relative to banking establishments iri Scotland
and Ireland. The pressure of other import-
ant business was at present very great. But
he would in the course of a month, and before the
period referred to by lion. Gentlemen who had remarked
upon this question on former evenings, state the nature
of the measure to the House.—(Hear, hear.)
THE POST-OFFICE. .
Mr. T. DTJNCOMBE then rose, for the purpose of
moving for leave to bring in a Bill to secure the inviola-
bility of letters Passing through the Post-offic. He
felt that it was a reflection on the system of Govern-
ment under which w*! lived, as well as a reproach to
our institutions of which we were so proud, that any
Member of that House should be obliged to seek for
the inviolability of his correspcndence. In submitting
this motion to the House he would abstain as much as
possible from everything of individual or of a personal
nature. It was with the system he was going to war.

It was a system he felt it his duty to endeavour to de-
stroy. Committees of this House and of the other
House had been appointed during the last session to re-
'port what was the state of the law on this subject.
All that the Committee of the House of Commons had
told them was, that the law in 1844 was exactly the
same as it was in the time of Queen Anne, but they did
not tell them what that law was. The House of Lords
had gone one step further, and had told them that the
only way the intention of the law could be explained was,
by the fact that that power was fully recognised by Act
of Parliament; because it did not give the Secretary of
State the power of detaining letters. They told them
that the power appeared to have been exercised from
the earliest period, and that it had been exercised ac-
cording to several Acts of Parliament. That was all
that the House of Lords said in reference to the matter,
admitting that there had been no law. He would grant
that the practice bad obtained, from old usage,
and was recognised by those Acts of Parliament ; but
if they referred to thee() cases in the Appendix of the
Report of the Commons, they would find that there had
been no such proof that letters had been stopped
in the Post office opened, and then sent foward
to the parties who ought to have received them,
there was no evidence that such a system of fraud and
forgery had ever been exercised; they were used in
Courts of law as evidence against certain parties. The
law was so different on that point that they
did not allow them to ask where was the warrant
whereby these letters were taken ; it seemed
that they came into the hands of the Government some
way or other, but they would not allow it to be asked
who detained those letters. The first of Vic-
toria increased the power of the former Act of Par-
liament. He had the authority of the highest
men—the highest legal authorities, for saying
that there was no law for the exercise of that power now
made use of. All that was done by the Act was to re-
lieve the servant of the Post-office from a misdemeanor

in detaining or opening any letters. It left the legality
of the warrant totally and entirely untouched, j ust the same
as a constable who produces his warrant is exonerated
from all responsibility as to the legality of that warrant.
The same thing might be said of the orders that were
given for the admission of strangers into the gallery of
that House. If a stranger in that gallery were to be
apprehended, he would produce the order as his protec-
tion. Yet it was clear that the power of admitting
strangers did not exist in that House. But admitting
that the Government possessed the power of opening
letters, the question the Ili,use had to decide was, what
advantage they had obtained by its exercise. They all
knew the difficulties in which the present Government had
been placed ; and they all knew the ill feeling which had
been created by the exposures in that House. And if
there was ever any benefit derived from this subject, he
would ask any rational and sensible man whether, after
the disclosures which had been made, a man engaged in
a treasonable correspondence would net be an idiot or a
fool to send that correspondence through the General
Post-office. He said, therefore, after the exposures
which had taken place, that the value or utility of this
practice had been destroyed. If this system was to be
of any value at all it must be practised in secret.
There was no middle course. They must either stand
by the present system, or abolish it altogether. Why
should they not expunge from the statute-book this
odious power, if such power existed? Such a power
existed in no other country. One of the articles of the
Belgian Constitution protected the correspondence of
the Belgian people. The power of opening letters
did not exist in the United States, nor in Canada.
It did not exist in France. Monsieur Guizot had de-
clared, in his place in the French Chambers, that in
law and in fact the correspondence of the French
people was inviolable. Honourable Gentlemen opposite
smiled, but that had been the declaration of the Minister
' of Foreign Affairs in France. If correspondence in
this country were violated, there was no redress because
• nobody was responsible for it. Sir Robert Walpole had
declared that this power ought only to be exercised in
times of great internal danger. From that time down to
I the present day the power had been increasing. It had
been used, not only for criminal warrants, but also fur
• political purposes.