The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-29 00:00:00

corn to this country. They never even had referred to the
agricultural produce of America. If they only allowed corn to
come from Australia without coming under the Canadian duty,
they would, indirectly, by that reception bestow a great benefit
upon both countries. 'they should exchange with other
countries,by which their food and the wants of the people might
be furnished. He would call the Right Hon. Baronet oppo-
site as a witness of the advantage of low prices, for he
had lately told them what the Ministry had done for them.
He had told them that as food had gone down in prices, and as
wages had increased, that crime had diminished and education
had extended itself. That was the account of the Right Hon.

Baronet opposite, who stated that the supply of food was great,
and the price of food was low. These advantages were
dependent only on the barometer ; but they should not depend
alune on the tenor of the weather, but also upon the good will
of the nation and the continuance of industry. By the adop-
tion of those principles vindicated in his Noble Friend's reso-
lutions, not only would great advantages be conferred on the
labouring classes, but those advantages would be carried to
their greatest height. The present state of the law, as it
affected prices of agricultural produce, could not be upheld;
for if it were, it would be impossible that there could be any
continued demand for labour. The more he persevered in

following this subject into its minute details, the more
the stronger he found his argument fortified, namely, that the
lower the prices of foist', the greater the abundance, as well
as the advantages to be derived to the country from such a
state of things. It was quite clear that a state of the law which
would enable the poor to supply themselves with a cheaper and
more abundant supply of food and clothing than they now could
do, the better would it be for all classes of the community, be-
cause it would cause an increased demand, net only for the ma-
nufactures of this country, but also for imported articles.—
( Hear, hear.) If the Government permitted a free trade in
corn, ;hat led necessarily to cause a further increase in the re-
venue of the manufacturers, and then again that would,
in its turn, lead to a greater consumption of agricultural
produce.—( Hear, hear, hear.) It was quite clear
that there could be no greater blessing to the
country than abundance and cheapness, while, on the
other hand, nothing could be more deplorable than
scarcity and high prices.—( Hear, hear.) They knew, from
what they had heard in that House that evening, that the agri-
cultural classes had not hitherto participated in the advantages
of a good harvest.—( Hear, hear. )—And, until the prices of
agricultural produce should be reduced to their proper level,
the farmers of this country would find it difficult to meet their
engagements.—( Hear, hear.) NI hat did the present state of
things augur but this, that the present supply was not com-
mensurate to the demand.—( Hear.) Whereas, if the Govern-
ment did but increase the facilities of produce, there could be
no doubt that the prosperity of the farmer would be increased.
These were the views he entertained on this subject, and,

holding them, he could not but support the resolutions of his
Noble Friend, for he regarded them, beyond all doubt, as
tending towards the prosperity of the farmer, and the pro-
motion •f the happiness of the working classess of this country.
—( Hear, hear.) But he should confess he felt inclined to go
even further than his Noble Friend in the assertions recognised

in the principles he laid down; but such as they were, if they
should nut be carried out to the fullest extent, he
feared that this House would see, in a few short

years, perhaps a few months, the whole of their beneficial
schemes tumbled to the ground.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Here the Noble Lord wets interrupted by cries of " question:
question." Hon. Gentlemen might cry " question:l but he
thought they were bound to listen so the arguments of those
who were of opinion that the present system operated must
epressively on the working classes. In his opinion the time
for compromise had gene by. Compromise would have been per-
fectly practicable a few years ago, but now the time was come
when the corn-laws and every other protective duty ought at
once to be repealed. He would deal with the corn-law and
every other protective duty. lie would abolish at once and
immediately every duty not levied bona
_fide for the purposes
of revenue. Whatever was intended for protection he
would at once repeal. The difference between him and
the Right Hon. Baronet was as to the best mode of
arriving at free trade. The Right Hon. Baronet wished to do
so gradually—he (Lord Howick) thought the best mode of ar-
riving at it was the shortest, the most direct, the quickest.
This, too, would be for the interest of the agriculturists
themselves, because what they wanted was certainly for the
future. This was his great objection to a fixed duty now, for
there would be no certainty in a fixed duty. Expel ience de-
monstratingly proved that the wisest course was to get rid of
protection. The system of protection was a delusion. A gra..
dual relaxation of that system would be liable to great objec-
tion. It would keep trade in a perpetual fever, which would
cause great loss and injury. But this was not the question im-
mediately raised by the first resolution. The question raised
by the first resolution was, whether the condition of the la-
bouring classes was satisfactory or otherwise. If otherwise,
could Parliament improve it; and if they could improve it,
was it not their duty at once, and without delay, to apply them-
selves to the remedy.—( Cheers. )
Sir J. HAMMER argued that a reduction of protective
duties would not benefit the consumer in this country, inas-
much as experience had taught them that when the import
duty on any article was abolished the price of that article
abroad was immediately raised. It should be recollected that
one-eighth of the whole population last year received paro-
chial relief. There was one thing to which he was desirous of
calling the attention of the House—the education of the people
of the people in the fine arts. Some years ago an elector, after
telling him at the hustings that poverty had stripped him
of his franchise, expressed an earnest wish that he ( Sir J.
Hanmer) would in Parliament support measures for the edu-
cation of the people in works of science and art. He had since
done so, and would be always most anxious to forward the
views of the poor man whose object was to give his children
the means of obtaining a decent livelihood. In 1835, before a
Committee of that House on the fine arts, much valuable evi-
dence was given. And the engraver of the Mint, Mr. Cockerell,
an architect, and others, gave evidence to the effect that a ge-
neral diffusion of artistieal and scientific knowledge would be
most advantageous to the country. In fact he thought it
would open a channel for the employment of much useful and
ingenious labour. He thought everything ought to be done
which could be done to improve the cultivation of the land
and place this country in this respect on the same par with
other countries, as it was in point of skill and manufactures.
Sir ROBERT PEEL had heard with surprise the expres-
sion of the lion. Member for Sunderland, that apathy per-
vaded the majority of the House on the question then before
it, and had charged disregard of the welfare and condition of
the people upon his side of the House more particularly. If
he (the Right Hon. Baronet) thought that real indifference
was felt on the condition not only of the labouring classes, but
of the entire community, he should agree with the proposition
so emphatically advanced, that such was a proof of the incom-
petency of that House to legislate for the welfare of the country.
—( Hear, hear,) But it was in no such feeling that the list-
lessness of the House was to be sought. It was rather attribut-
able to the predominant conviction, that the Noble Lord had
not brought forward his resolutions either in the spirit or the
method calculated to ensure success in Parliam-nt, or advan-
tage to the country. He had alluded to the absence of the Mem-
ber for Dorsetshire in rather unfair and certainly unmerited
terms. No man could have evinced a greater anxiety for the
welfare of the people, nor have devised more satisfactory mea-
sures for their benefit and prosperity.—( Hear, hear.) But he
had taken a different course from the Noble Lord the Member
for the city of London He had suggested practical ineasu:es,
not general and indefinite propositions, and he was the last
person on whom an invidious expression on his absence should
be passed. The Noble Lord might have turned to the right
and left on his own side of the House and seen many Members
who would support him in his present motion, who were not
to be found in the number of those who supported him in the
early part of the evening. He would not take the course
pursued by the Hon. Members opposite, but would merely
mention what, perhaps, others were not aware of—that at the
early part of the evening an attempt had been made
to get rid of the question by counting out the
House.—(Laughter.) He could not see that any useful
purpose could be answered by undertaking a change in the
policy of the law. And as to the expediency of bringing for-
ward a series of propositions, each of them deserving a separate
discussion, and requiring some considerable time--such time
as was worthy of the importance of the subject—the test was best
found in the course adopted by his followers. One had alluded
to the poor-law, another to the suffrage. But, independent
of the number and incongruity of the propositions, it was im-
possible to follow or adopt them. No abstract resolution could
or ought to be adopted as to a change in the laws, before the
mode whereby the change was to be effected had been promul-
gated, or at least suggested.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to
colonisation, there never had been a time when a more exten-
sive scale was proposed and open to a Government than when
the Noble Lord was Secretary for the Colonies. lie (the
Right Honourable Baronet) would not retort by taunt or
reproach, but he would remind the Noble Lord opposite,
that, with all the facilities offered at that period,
he was unable to suggest a plan of systematic
I colonisation. That the subject was of importance he freely
and unequivocally admitted, but before' he pledged himself to
any system ho should like to know its nature and details.—
( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had done justice to the course
pursued by his opponents in the prosecution of this debate.
The absence of asperity had been marked, and he hoped that
such calm and dispassionate discussion would always charac-
terise the consideration of a subject so important and mo-
mentous. But what had been the course adopted by the Go-
vernment with respect to the education of the peo-
ple? They had lately proposed for Ireland a vote
of 75,000/. for the purposes of national educa-
tion. In 1841 the vote was 50,0001. In 1841 the sum
proposed for educational purposes, in England, was 30,0001.,
in 1844, 40,0001., and for the present year the amount voted
had been no less than 75,0001., being an advance of 35,0001.
on the present over the preceding grant. But he thought they
had done nothing which ought to dishearten them. They had
increased the grant for educational purposes from 40,000/. to
70,0001. He considered it a great object to promote educa-
tion, when it carried vvitls it the approbation of all parties.
The resolutions of the Noble Lord, he thoaght, would be of
little value, when compared with the system which the Go-
vernment intended to promote, and to aid which the
Government would call upon those who, by their money and
time were capable to co-operate with them in the attainment
of the object. But let us not he too liberal with the expendi-
ture of the public money. Let us proceed gradually, with pru-
dent generosity, to insure the co-operation of thee who are
willing and competent to assist us. lie knew of no higher con-
necting link between the lower and the higher classes than the
desire of those who were able, and came forward voluntarily to
contribute to the comfort of individuals, to whose labour they
were so much indebted. The Noble Lord demanded that we
should give our support to a rather liberal and extensive mea-
sure for the promotion of education. We have already had the
authority of a fatal experience of measures founded on liberal
and comprehensive principles.—( Hear.) It is easy to make
the proposition—it is more easy to bind ourselves by a pledge,
but let us pause and consider before we in any way commit
ourselves. We thought that the Educational Hill was a liberal
and comprehensive measure, but we had reason to congratulate
ourselves that nopledges had been given in a restricted degree.
He objected to toe resolutions of the Noble Lord that they
amalgamated together too many circumstances which could
be much better disposed of by single discussion, and he ob-
jected to the Noble Lord's request that we should legislate
with respect to education, to colonization, and to parochial
settlements. This, ie his opinion, was the principal objection
against the reception of the resolutions that had been proposed
by the Noble Lord. The Right Hon. Baronet then proceeded
to read the resolutions which had been proposed by Lord John
Russell, and said that he was surprised that the Noble Lord
the member for Sunderland had expressed his intention to vote
in favour of those resolutions, because the Noble Lord had
previously indicated some objection to pursue such acts and
deliberate arrangements as might be more beneficial to her
Majesty's subjects. He ( Sir Robert Peel) did not know how
he could differ from the Noble Lord, or take those resolutions
into consideration unless accompanied by those arrangements
which would be more beneficial to her Majesty's subjects. He
really thought that the Noble Lord would have promoted that
course as they had not pledged themselves to any particular
course, except it were accompanied by " these acts and de-
liberated arrangements," which were believed would most pro.
mote the interests of all classes of her Majesty's subjects. But,
considerin=, the nature of the policy that had been hitherto
pursued, he could not conceive how it was possible the Noble
Lord the Member for Sunderland should vote in favour of the
; resolutions proposed by the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord the
Member fur Sunderland had underrated agitation on the sub-
ject. The Noble Lord who had introduced the matter, had
also declared, that in the event of the resolutions he pro-
posed being carried, he should recommend a fixed duty of
either 55., 65., or 7s. If he was well supported by his
i friends and the House he would propose 6s. ; if
otherwise, then he would propose 45. The Noble