The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-21 00:00:00

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therefore, move that the report be received that day six
months.
Mr. COLLETT said that the decision had certainly sur-
prised him. The inhabitants on this line were not as in the
ether case divided in opinion, and he should, therefore, feel it
his duty to divide the House, not so much on this particular
line, but on the great question of the broad and narrow gauge,
as it effected the whole country, and he shculd, therefore,
second the amendment.
Mr. SHAW said that the decision of the Committee
had been fully discussed in Committee. The Honourable
Member for Sheffield had stated that Oxford was a less
impor tart place than Rugby. Without assenting to this, he
was yet quite prepared to concur in the arguments which had
been adduced by that Hon. Member. He must say, how-
ever, that this was not a question as to the broad and narrow
gauge, for the broad and narrow gauge they had, and they
could not get rid of it ; and the only question was the incon-
venience to be incurred, and he thought that no places were
more convenient for the alteration than Oxford and Rugby,
and he should, therefore, adhere to his resolution.
Mr. GISBORNE said that he quite agreed with the Floyd
of Trade, that Oxford was in itself a place of great im-
portance, and Rugby, on account of its consumption, was of
no importance at all. The Birmingham Company were in
such a position, from the abstraction of the traffic on one hand
from Liverpool, and on the other by the new line from Bed-
ford to Leicester, that they were certain to provide all the ad-
vantages which the public could require. The Hon. Member
said, that if the railway were lost now, the county would
never have a line at all. From this he was compelled to dis-
sent, for from the experience which they had lately derived
from the proceedings from one end of the country to the other,
he had very little doubt but that a project would be brought
forward next year, and he should, therefore, vote for the
amendment.
Mr. MACLEAN said that the House was not yet sufficiently
in lossession of information to enable it to judge of the ad -
vantages of those two gauges. A little more time would not
be lost if this question were postponed for a few months
longer. The alteration which it was proposed to establish
would require an alteration in every one of the coal waggons
which were employed on the Birmingham line. Those wag-
gons cost from 30/. to 40.. each, and as to the attempt to
lift those waggons into other waggons and trucks, it would be
so expensive that the attempt could never be made with any
probability of advantage. They might establish one gauge in
all lines running to the north, and another in those running
to the west.
Mr. NEWDEGATE said that it so nearly affected his con-
stituents, that. he could not refuse to occupy the House for a
few moments. The noise in the House was so great, that it
was next to impossible to hear what the Hon. Member said;
but we understood him to say that, as the whole district on his
side of Oxford must be supplied from the Goa) districts be-
yond Birmingham, there would be an increased difficulty in
getting their supplies if this interruption of the gauges was to
be made.
Mr. TANCRED said that the coal from the south and
western districts was already so cut off by the existing rail-
ways, that it was of the utmost importance that no additional
impediment should be thrown in their way. Their only sup-
ply now was from the Leicester coal field, and the coal of that
district was of so friable a nature, that it was lifted into the
carriages in large pieces, and if transferred from one carriage
to another would inevitably be made worthless for all domestic
purposes.
Mr. VILLIERS STUART thought that so much bad
been said against the Committee that. he thought it was high
time that something should be said in their favour. He, as one
of the members of that Committee, could assure the House
that the utmost care had been taken by the Committee to make
a full investigation into the merits of the rival schemes. He
had himself seen, not models, but carriages of the two descrip-
tions which it was proposed to employ in the transference fn all
one gauge to the other, and there was neither danger nor ex-
pense in the original outlay or the current expense. And
with respect to the friableness of the coal, there was not the
least probability that it would be in any way injured.
Mr. WARD thought that the inconvenience that would
arise from the shifting of 60,000 tons of coal from one rail to
another would not be compensates! for by any advantages arising
from the use of the broad gauge. He thought one of the very
first objects in a railway was an uniform line.
Mr. 13R AMSTON said that the Bill now before the
House would greatly facilitate trade in the districts which it
traversed. The Hon. Member for Sheffield had in the course
of that debate referred to a member of the Committee who
could not make up his mind on which side to vote. He did
not know to which of the members of the Committee the Hon.
Member referred, but if he referred to him (Mr. Bramston) he
was not ashamed to say that where great interests were in-
volved he did consider on which side, as an honest man, lie
ought to give his decision.
Mr. SPOONER said that if any Hon. Member would but
take the trouble to look how the great northern lines were
carried out, he need have no hesitation afterwards in supporting
the narrow gauge. He trusted that the House would remember
that this was not the decision of a united but a divided Com-
mittee, and that they would reject the report.
After a few words from Mr. Drummond, Lord George
Bentinck, and Sir T. Acland,
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the adoption of the report 79
Against it ...... ...
Majority
—36
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
Lord G. SOMERSET moved that the House at its rising do
adjourn till Monday.—Agreed to.
COMMITTEE OF PRIVILEGE.
Sir F. THESIG ER brought up the report of the Com.
mittee of Privileges, and fixed Thursday next for its consi.
deration.

CUSTOMS.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee on the
Customs Bill.

BUTTER AND CHEESE.
Mr. EWA RT, conceiving that the House, at that late hour,
was not in a position to do justice to the subject of which he
had given notice, obtained leave to postpone his motion on the
subject of butter and cheese till the next supply night.
REDUCTION OF THE DUTY ON TALLOW.
Mr. E. BULLER then brought forward his motion for a
reduction of the duty on tallow. He said that, in 1842, the
duty on articles similar to tallow was very materially
r.duced, and the result had proved most satisfactory.
It was unfortunate that both then and in 1834 the
article of tallow was omitted from the reductions made in the
tariff', because it was an article largely imported into this erten-
' try, and one considerably used by mant.Vacturers. In the pre-
sent year the duty on articles of the same description was again
reduced, but still the article of tallow remained untouched;
and it was because he thought it was an ascertained principle
that articles of a similar character ought to be dealt with in the
same manner, that induced him to ask for the abolition of the
duty on tallow.
After a few words from Mr. EWART, which were not dis-
tinctly heard,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
whilst he opposed the motion upon financial grounds, he was
ready to admit that the subject of the motion required the
serious consideration of the Government.
Sir R. PEEL opposed the repeal, on the ground that the
Government was not prepared to make the reduction.
Mr. WILLIAMS said that that was no ground for the re-
tention of this tax. The weight of taxation was thrown upon
the great mass of the working class. It was better than can-
great advantage would be de-
o o
saidre s
hc laats sa.
it
n
rived from taking the import. duty off tallow.
rn.g NC° tEh Le
Mr. E. HULLER then replied and withdrew his motion.
COPPER ORE.
On the motion of Mr. PARKER that all duties on 'the im-
portation of copper ore should cease and determine,
Sir C. LEMON spoke of the value of foreign copper ire,
particularly that brought from France 'hrL Chilia, and con-
tended that the trade of the country in copper would he
greatly benefited if the House slvrald accede to the motion of
the Hon. Member.
Mr. TRELAWNEY made a few observations which were
not audible in the gallery.
Sir G. CLERK contended that it would by no means be
beneficial either to this country or to foreign countries to have
the duty altogether abolished.
Mr PARKER withdrew his motion.
Dr. ROWRING moved that the duty on pine logs, not
exceeding In feet in length, and 11 inches square, be reduced
to 12s. 64. per load. He considered that if the duty were re-
duced to the amount he had proposed, that the trade in tim-
ber with Sweden and Norway and the Baltic would be greatly
increased, more particularly at the present moment, When
great quantities of timber were required for the railways in the
course of construction.
Sir GEO. CLERK opposed the motion, on the ground that
when the motion was under the consideration of the House in
1842, the duty on foreign timber was greatly reduced, and he
now saw no reason to make the alteration proposed.
The galleries were cleared for a division, but none took place.
The House resumed.