The Sun.
London, England, 1829-05-16 00:00:00

tendered himself to be sworn, would perhaps be
obliged to make his appearance again on another
day, and be then placed in the same situation. He
thought the House was able, at the present moment,
to decide on what ought to be done. They ought
to decide this question, not only on account of the
Hon. Member for Clare, but for the sake of their
own usages, of their own dignity, and of their own
proceedings—(Hear, hear.)—Impressed as he was
Ivith the importance of this case, and thinking that
the discussion of the construction of the law could
not he carried to too great an extent, still he could
not bring ItimseW to believe that there was any ne-
cessity for delay in coming to a decision on the pro-
position of his Hon. and Learned Friend.—(Hear.)
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, when any Honourable
Member intended to make a motion on any subject,
it was the regular rule to give notice of it, and he
thought it was not unreasonable to ask for two days'
notice on this motion, whether or not the Hon. Gent.
returned for the county of Clare should be heard by
himself or otherwise, to assign reasons for his refus-
ing to take the oaths. He thought it was too much
to ask that he should at once be heard at the table,
and that the House ought to adjourn the considera-
tion of this question till Monday. It was compe-
tent for any Gentleman to move whether or not the
Hon. Member for Clare should be heard at the
table, at the bar, or whether he should be heard at
hear.)—He certainly was not aware
of any case where, upon a Member refusing to
take the oaths, he had ever been heard, and
he thought :his a sufficient reason why the question
should be postponed till Monday.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD had no objection to the
question being postponed, but he did not see how the
Hon. Member for Clare, after he had been declared
duly elected, could be refused a hearing.—(Hear.)
By the opinion of the Chair, Mr. O'Connell had
been prevented from stating the reasons why he
objected to take the oath 4 he ought certainly to be
afforded an opportunity of so doing. It was of
little consequence whether he was beard at the bar
or at the table, but it would be depriving a Member
of that House of his privileges, if it was refused to
hear his objections to taking the oaths.
Mr. PEEL—We must first determine whether
those objections are to be made at the table or at
bar of the House, and to enable us to come to a
decision on that point, we ought to adjourn the
question, when we may come better prepared.
Sir F. BURDETT was of opidm, that it would
be better to adjourn the question until the cases,
which had been cited were looked into. He was
anxious to postpone the discussion, because, con-
trary to the opinion of his Right Hon. Friend
who had just sat down (Mr. Fitzgerald), and
of his Right Honourable Friend below him
(Mr. Tierney), he considered that it was a very
important question, whether the Hon. Mem-
ber for Clare should he heard at the table or at
the bar.
Mr. PEEL begged it might be borne in mind that
be had given no opinion on this subject.
Lord MILTON was of opinion, that the House
might, by its vote this evening, indicate what its in-
tention really was, and that he thought could not
be done too speedily. There was no doubt on his
mind but that they ought to hear the Hon. Member
for Clare in some manner or other; and the whole
question, as put by the Right Hon. Secretary, was,
whether he should be hear at the bar, or at the
table.—(Cries of "No, no.")—Did he understand
the Right Hon. Secretary rightly, when he sup-
posed him, in the course of his last observations, to
state to the House, that the question was, whether
Mr. O'Connell should be heard at the table or at
the bar ? He certainly did not hear the Right Hop.
Secretary add the third alternative,—whether Mr.
)'Connell should be heard at all.
Mr. PEEL said, his idea was, that they could
not here this gentleman until they had determined
whether he should be heard at the table or at the
bar. There were some gentlenfen who might think
that he ought not to be heard at all; and to give
Hon. Members an opportunity of considering what
course was most proper to be pursued, ha had moved
the adjournment of the question,—reserving to him-
self the right of hereafter stating his impression on
the whole case, but abstaining from giving any

opinion now.
Sir J. YORKE said he believed that Fanshawe
had been sent for by the Speaker. He was asked
whether he would take the oaths, and having an-
swered no, he was asked his reasons. He gave
them and withdrew, and his seat was vacated.
- Mr. BROUGHAM would repeat what he had
said at first—namely, that he was unwilling to make
the motion which he had submitted to the House.
The impression on his mind certainly was, that the
Hon. Member for Clare ought to be heard at the
table; but he was not so confident in his opinion as
to wish to press the motion forward. He was not
so confident in his opinion as others had a right to
he who had studied subjects of this kind more atten-
tively; and he stated that as his reason for not acting
hastily. With respect to the cases of Fanshawe
and Monson, he thought they bore strongly on the
present. There was this peculiarity connected with
them—that the two individuals had bean members
of the Convention Parliament ; but he dealt with
them in connexion with that Parliament which con-
verted the Convention Parliament into a lawful Par-
liament. Sir H. Monson refused to take the oaths, I
and Sir Michael Fanshawe acted in the same way.
They were heard at the table; and these cases, he •
contended, had the precise bearing of the present.—
He
was not prepared to argue that Archdale's case
was exactly similar. He was described as a
Quaker, who, being required to attend Parlia-
ment, refuseJ to take the oaths, having first
written to the Speaker, and being afterwards
called upon by him. This might possibly make
a difference in the case of Archdale; but there was
no difference in those of Fanshawe and Monson, at
least not such a difference as essentially to alter the
bearing of those precedents. He had abstained from
making any motion until the House pressed him to
do so. He then stated, that to bring the question
in a regular and formal manner under discussion, he
would move " that the Hon. Member for Clare be
heard at the table." But, as something of the same
doubt which he at first felt was still prevailing in his
mind, he had willingly acceded to the adjournment,
that more ample time might be given for the consi-
deration of the subject. Now, however right it
might be to proceed deliberately,—however proper
it might be to discuss whether the hearing of- the
Hon. Member for Clare should be at the bar or at
the table, such a discussion might be very right,
and he believed it was very right; but as to the
possibility of the House coming to the conclusion
not to allow the Hon. Member for Clare to be heard
either way, such a decision—a decision that he
should not be heard at all—he looked upon to be
be utterly out of the question.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord DUNCANNON—I am requested by the
Member for Clare to apply to the House that he
may be heard before the House in support of his
claims.
The motion for adjourning the debate till Monday
wag then agreed to.
Mr. PEEL—It is understood that it will take
precedence of every thing else.
SMITHFIELD MARKET BILL.
Mr. Alderman WOOD brought up the Report
on this Bill, and moved that it be received.
Mr. R. GORDON looked upon this as an absurd
and ridiculous Bill. He should therefore move,
that the Report be received this day three months.
Mr. BYNG said, that the Bill effected much
benefit, in preventing carriages passing
.through
Smithfield on market-days, and in changing the
market-day from Friday to Thursday.
Lord ALTHORP said, the Bill was only to last
two years, and he supported it as an experiment,
Mr. WODEHOUSE objected to the Bill.
Sir J. MACINTOSH opposed the Bill, as it
would have the effect of prolonging and diverting
public attention from the abominable and intolerable
nuisance of driving beasts through the streets, to the
danger of passengers.
Mr. COKE suspected that the Corporation ex-
pected to gain something from the passing of the