The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-19 00:00:00

He did not blame the Ministers for making those
accusations, because he had no doubt they heard
them from others who were interested in making mis-
representations which would lead to uphold the infamous
laws which ruined the country.—(Cheers.) One of
those charges was, that they paid for five hundred pair
of shoes and stockings, which were purchased for the
poor people during the severity of last winter.—(Shame,
shame.) Another charge was, that when the distress
was made known in various parts of the country, their
own members sent them down a quantity of blankets,
nvhich, after a careful inspection, were distributed
;amongst 1,500 families, who were without anything in
the shape of blankets or any other bedding whatsoever.
They gave those blankets to persons of the best cha-
racters who had known better days, and to those
who had the largest families. But after all they
could only give half a blanket to each family._
(Hear, hear.) And then they gave 1001. to
those who had clothes in the pawn-offices, to redeem
which would cost four times less than if they got
them new ones.—(Hear, hear.) Another abuse com-
plained of was, that the ministers of the gospel of every
denomination, who had colected funris to purchase
clothes to enable the poor people to come to the houses
of worship, put 5,000/. into the commili fund, which it
was stipulated should be paid to theni as their neces-
sities required it, for the ministers had many cases of
distress with which they had more intimate acquaintance
than any others. They received 3,5001. from this fund,
which they distributed as it was wantemi, and
they left 1,500/. in the common fund.—(Hear, hear.)
Commissioners were sent clown by Government to inves-
tigate the state of matters, and the Relief Committee was
in consequence sent about their business, at a time when
they were distributing relief to the amount of 450/. per
week. The Commissioners undertook the management
of relief to the poor with a view to effect a saving,
and to carry out the object nothing but oatmeal, bread,
and potatoes, were given to the people, without any
means being allowed them of supplying themselves with
milk, salt, or soap. The patient in a dying state, and the
siursinss, mother got no other food. At the end of the
first two weeks after the Coin rnissioners had undertaken
'the management of the relief fund, he (Mr. Henderson)
though Chief Magistrate of the town, knew no more of
the transactions of the Commissioners, or the expenses
incurred by them, than any individual now present,
further than in his magisterial capacity endeavouring to
preserve order. At the end of those two weeks they
were led to believe, not indeed from any direct informa-
tion, that 500/. per week was drawn from the relief
fund ; afterwards, that 550/. was drawn from the
same source fur the relief of the poor, and
at the end of six weeks it was for the
first time made known that the amount drawn from the
Lonflon Relief Committee was 6181. per week. Then,
when it was found impossible to put an end to
the distress, or drive off the people by hard usage,
they left the burden of relief to those to whom it was
before entrusted. A representation had been made to
the Government of this state of matters, but, he re-
gretted to say. without any effect. He found, on his
way up to London, that st Stockport, Bolton, and other
towns, the means allowed with which to furnish relief to

the poor was d able that allowed to Paidey. At this
tme the maximum allowance to a person with a
lirg.e family was four shillings io six shillings and
sixpence per week. The people were driven to borrow
meal of their neighbours, an:i some had forestalled a
day's allowance for so many weeks that it took the whole
of the allowance receiveA from the Committee to pay their
debts to them. A few cases would illustrate the state of
things better thin any general statement, and he had
collected a fete before he left.—(Hear.) The first
was a caste; of a husband and wife and two children,
one of diem suffering under severe inflammation, and
. to procure medical assistance and food they had only
4s, ta. a-week. Yet, on the case being reported to the
•ootntnittee, so limited were their means, that they stated
it was nut a case they could interfere with. Another
vase was that of a man a wife, and three children,
tto pi o • mother having just given birth to a fourth,
with only ss. a-week for subsistence. He appealed
to the meeting and to the British public, if this was a state of
things that ought to be permitted to continue? And there
were hundreds and hundreds of such cases. Not a day elapsed
without such cases being presented to them. Another case
that had attracted his attention was that of a poor woman who
bad rings ed long with a cancer in the bowels, and who had
died the day he visited the family. The father was nearly
naked, and he supplied him with shoes to attend his wife's'fu-
neral, and begged another gentleman to supply him with other
clothing. one of the daughters, a girl nearly fourteen years
cif age, was nearly naked, with the exception of a few rags.
Another daughter, a child four years of age, was so
affected bN the apparent happy change that had taken place in
the family, from a supply of bread and clothing being sent in
on the death of her mother, that he saw her actually dancing
in a corner for joy.. At the last meeting before he left, a
starving crowd sent in a deputation to wait upon them, and, as
a sample of their statements, he would read two extracts, the
first from a letter to W. H. Hyett, Esq., the Secre-
tary of the Relief Committee, signed by the Provost,
the B.+illi-• and Sheriff-Substitute, it was penned by
a gentlem do not friendly to Corn-law repeal. " Two de-
putations from public meetings came to a recent meet-
ing of our Committee, to complain of what was termed
• the ' cruelty' of driving the people to starvation, and of giving
them nothing but bread and meal to subsist upon ; thereby
forcing them to dispose (as they were doing) of part of their
scanty allo Nances to procure other necessaries for their families,
viz.—milk. soap, and such like. Both deputations (one of
which was headed by a parish clergyman) told us that it was
V.e unanimous feeling of the public meetings +hat the duty of
humane and respectable men in our situation as managers, was
to give adequate allowances !or sustaining life and health to the
• multitudes willing to work, but destitute of employment, and of
the means of subsi+tence, by no fault of their own." He would

now read the opinion of the same individual on this state of
th.ngs. .6 It cannot he expected tat the Paisley Committee
- should take personal responsibility of the debt ; and
to say that they are to be held responsible, is
to put an end at once to their functions at what-
ever hazard to the peace of the town." Unless funds
had been obtained from some unforeseen quarter, he feared
they must be put in the position stated its the letter. After
the allowances were reduced, many members of the Committee
withdrew, and he himself only continued to act on the assur-
ance to the starving people that he would use every effort to in-
' crease the allowances. Another deputation waited on them a
short time before he left, consisting exclusively of working men,
and the language of that deputation was simply this : " We
. are starving, and you must do something for us." Many of
that deputation bad not tasted food that day, and would not be
„able to draw their allowances till the next day. One of that

Tdeputation was a man of intelligence, able to discuss
the doctrines of Newton and of Fergussor, the theories of
• Hutton and Werner, or of Cuvier, who was capable of convers-
ing on almost every subject ; he was a leading member of the
Alechanics' Institution. Such was the man, who was
reduced, by no fault of his own, to tell them that he
was starving. But this individual possessed another qualification
that ought to attract the attention of the British public.
They were all aware of the immense sums that had been
lavished en the Duke of Wellington. In his own neighbour-
hood, in Glasgow, one hundred thousand pounds had been
subscribed to erect a monument to the Duke of Wellington—
(a Delegate—" 'they deserve to suffer !")—and for what ?
For conquering the French, and his brilliant campaigns in
Spain and Portugal. The individual whom he had stated had
declared himself to be starving, had himselt fought and bled
under the Duke at. Waterloo ; he asked those who talked of
British valour and Briti,h honour, if this was the way in which
those who had fought and bled, slimed he rewarded, while the
Lonours and glory were given to the officers alone ?—( Hear. )
From another document, not drawn up by a friend of Corn-law
repeal, ho found that there were at present 9.777 persons de-
pendent upon 'hem for relief. The distre!s at Stockport and
Bolton fed infinitely short of that of Paisley. This
was proved by the statement of the Government In-
epectors themselves; it was as great in Paisley as in all
.the rest of the country put together; and without the
means of increasing the allowances, he saw no mode of
preserving the peace, or lives of the inhabitants. Under these
cireu:nsianees, it became their duty as Delegates to consider
what was to be done. He was quite aware that the leaders of
both virties in the House had de. tared against granting any
sum of mon,,y from the public funds for the lAA' of the poor;
then, 'un,, the country submit to the dogmas of such
statesti en, who had never done anything to increase the
libcrtie, of Ihe people, except upon compulsion? On the Ca-
tholic que •tton, the Duke of Wellington and the Government
did not yi• Id from any conviction of thejustice of the claims, but,
train apiirehension of a civil war. Would that war have destroyed
10,000 human beings? But he doubted whether the distress
now existing would not be more fatai; and were they to be told
that they were to stand still, and that the Government could do
nothing ? They must appeal to the people of London
so as to act on the House of Commons; he hoped that they
would keep up an earnest and vigorous agitation, as the only
means of pre-erving the peace, order, and the lives oh their
fellow-subj-cts. Wi:hout their aid he saw no prospect except
of returnir g to a miserable population, disappointed and hag-
gard, and unable, without relief, to go through the winter.
The CHAIKMAN introduced to the meeting,

Mr SIIA KPE, of Manchester, who proceeded to address the
meeting on the spread of manufactures and the disposition of
the Governments abroal to encourage them. He saw a very
strong disposition on the part of these Governments to support
their own native establishments of every description. With re-
gard to all the various railway establishments, they had intro-
duced an amazing number of mechanical establishments, and
were bent upon making their own engines and their own
machines of every description. As regarded the cotton, flax,
woollen, spinning, and weaving, be had been astonished
at the progress which was made. He had been through a cotton
mill in St. Petersburgh, a month ago, which was under the
management of a Scotch gentleman of the name of Craig ; he
never saw a cotton mill under abetter system of management.
lie had been assured that their yarn competed in the Moscow
market with the yarn of the first spinner in Manchester.
Mr. COBDEN inquired whethar foreign countries did not
adopt our improvements in machinery almost as soon as they
were made.

Mr Stu ant—Yes, by means of models and drawings they
obtain them almost immediately.
Mr. RAWSON asked, if the law remained as it was, were the
wages in hi. (Mr. Sharpe's) branch of business likely to fall ?
Mr. !. HARPE—Yes, they must go down. Last week they
had given notice of a reduction to take place this week They
had also been under the necessity of reducing their hands for
the last three weeks..

Mr. COBDEN inquired what proportion the wages now paid
bore to those formerly paid?
311'. SilAitrE replied that within the last three weeks they
had been reduced 20 per cent., inctiuliog the reduction in the
number of hands. This week there would be another reduction
of TO per cent.
Mr. CottneN said, as much had been said about machinery
throwing workmen out of employment, he begged to ask Mr.
Site' pe how bug it took to bring a new machine into opera-
time whether it came suddenly into operation, or Whether it
took semis time to bring it to bear ?
Mr. SIIA itrE raid that must depend in a great treasure
upon the character of the machine. It had taken meny }ears
to bring, some of their inventions into operation. In the case
of one of their patents they had expended twenty or twenty-
five thousand pounds before any meceedeil in bringing it into
operation. In the case of their self-acting mule they applied
for anti obtained an additional grant of seven years, because
they had not been sufficiently remunerated. He wished it to
beFleariy understood in what caincity he came :here. H;s
polities were Conservative—( Hear, :car)--he was a Cirt..
aervat.ivn in principle. He came there as an indisidual
who. had been e tensively connected with engineering.—
(Hear, hear.) He had been abroad three or four times within
the last three months, and had witnessed a great deal more than
he had expected to see. He thought the time had now arrived
when the Government should do everything which they could
do, consistently with the interests
tonfarll classes,
of thisasses,to relieve the
commercial and manufacturing te
(cheers. ) Every foreign country was es country.—
pushing and forcing, if .
he might use the term, its own branch of manufacture, more
particularly that of mechanical engineering. They were gettin
over Many if oar badlands, andthough
they were avowedly

not getting much profit they said they hoped, by experience,
to get a good profit eventually. Fifteen years ago his own
firm had bad offers from foreign countries of large and
liberal support, provided they would settle there. He
had heard, within eight and forty hours, of a very liberal
offer which was made to an establishment connected with
manufactures. His own firm had received indirect offers in
the present year. He hoped they would have no cause to
listen to them, but he really did not know what was to become
of the mechanical branch of business in England. As he had
before said, he thought the time was come when it behoved
the Government to do every. thing in their power to relieve the
commercial and manufacturing interests.
Mr. RAwsox begged to inquire whether, in all the cir-
cumstances of the case, it was not imperatively necessary that
they should be placed on a level with foreigners ±n the article
of food ?
Mr SHARPE said it was most desirable certainly. He did
not propose to give an opinion as to what was best to be done,
except so far as to say that the commercial and manufacturing
interests should be relieved.
Mr. Rawsox inquired whether there was a prospect of a
further reduction of wages ?
Mr. SHA RPE said, it the orders did not come in more freely
in future than they had done lately, they must, at all events,
reduce the number of hands.
The CHAIRMAN said it was curious to observe the different es-
timates formed by the Government of this country and foreign
countries in reference to the importance of manufactures.
Every other Government seemed to think that to en-
courage manufactures was to promote the well-bring
of a country ; it was reserved for the British
House of Commons to tell them that you might encourage ma-
nufactures to too great an extent.—( Hear, hear.) The
landed aristocracy of this country were a distinct race of beings
from the landed aristocracy of other countries. The former
saw that their country would be benefited by the increase and
encouragement of manufactures ; our landed aristocracy were
only:careful lest the encouragement of manufactures should in-
terfere with and lower their rents.
A DELEGATE wished to ask the Provost of Paisley, as Chief
Magistrate of that town, whether, if the peeple should be
driven by hunger to help themselves to food, he would feel
himself justified in ordering the 'military to fire upon them ?
Mr. HENDERSON, Provost of Paisley, said he would not
shrink from answering the question. The views of himself, and
other professors of religion on that snb)ect, were so well known,
that the question need scarcely have been put. It was well
known that they held the opinion that military force, under all
circumstances was unnecessary and improper. At the same
time, he felt that he would be bound to use every effort
in his power to preserve the peace, and life, and property.
He was convinced, that a single word of advice would
better preserve the peace than a thou-and soldiers.
If they saw a house on fire, and the life of a human being
in danger, their first effort would be directed to save the
human being ; and if there were ten thousand persons who
were starving, as was the case in Paisley, would they be justi-
fied, under any circumstances, in sacrificing their lives ?
(Hear, hear.) If they saw a valuable cargo about to be lost,
and there were two or three individuals on board the vessel,

would they not forget the property, and endeavour to save the
lives?—( Hear, hear.) Within little more than a year, not
only the whole of Great Britain, but the whole of Europe,
had been agitated by the loss of the President steam-ship.
To what, on that occasion, had the public anxiety been di-
rected—to the property, the vessel and cargo--or to the human
beingson board her ?—(Cheers )—the human lives undoubtedly.
—( Cheers.) The Duke of Richmond had a son on board that
ill-fated vessel—that son's life was valuable to the Duke. Could
there be a doubt but that the Duke would gladly have paid
double the value of the vessel and her cargo, if by so doing he
could have saved his son's life.—(Cheers.) Then should the.
Duke of Richmond remember that the life of every other human
being is as dear to his relatives as was the life of his son to
him.—( Loud cheers.) These were his notions and views on
the subject—which he would be prepared to act on, an I justify.
Mr. RAWSON said that, as an opinion had gnus abroad that
if the price of food should be reduced, the price of wages
must be reduced likewise ; and, as Mr. Sharpe had stated,
that, if things remained as they did, he should have to dis-
charge more hands, which would lead to a reduction of
wages, he wished to ask Mr. Sharpe, if free-trade were es-
tablished, whether he should not be able to employ more hands.
Mr. SHARPE would not say positively. He hoped and be-
lieved that fresh orders would come in in consequence of the es-
tablishment of free trade, and that would keep up wages.
Mr. JAMES WILSON, of London, wished to ask Mr. Sharpe
a qnestion in connection with this important subject, which
went to show the influence which the price of food exercised
on the rate of wages. Mr. Sharpe knew the manufactories on
the Continent, both for cotton-spinning and machine-making—
he alluded particularly to the Phoenix manufactory at Ghent,
and he would ask, seeing the great perfection to which the
continental manufacturers had attained, whether the rate of
wages in this country must not approximate more and more to
the rate of wages on the Continent? and if the wages should
even be equal, how would it ever be possible for them to com-
pete with the Continental labourers, while food in this country
was double the price it was on the Continent?
Mr. SHARPE said that the excellence of the English work-
men was such that employers could afford to give higher wages
than were given on the Continent, and yet to undersell the fo-
reigner ; but still, unless something should he done to counter-
act the progress of manufactures in Europe and America, they
would soon undersell us,

Mr. Witson—There is a constant progress of approximation.
I%lr. SHARPE —Certainly:
Mr. WILSON knew that on the Belgian railroads, where five
years ago almost every man employed was an Englishman,
they now had but one Englishman employed, mid he had been
told by Count Cogan, one of the managers of the Phoenix works
at Ghent, that every day they were decreasing their number
of English workmen, and increasing the number of the Belgian
ones. The fact was that machines were now made so much by
machinery, that the same degree of manual skill was not now
required that had been required heretofore. Therefore wages
were constantly, approximating, and when they became equal,
how could the English workman compete with the foreign one
if food were double the price here that it was on the Continent ?
Air. COBDEN said that admitting that the English workman
obtained higher wages, he was only paid at the same
rate as the Continental labourer. He was paid higher wages
because he was more skilled. Was he not entitled to the full
profits of his labour ?—(Cheers.) That point had been ad-
mirably put by Mr. Deacon Hume, who had asked the aristo-
cracy—Does the skill and ability of the English workman be-
long to him or to you ?—(Cheers.) His bones and sinew s
belong to him, not to you • and if he earns high wages that
is no reason why you should take a portion of them from
him ? They were not paid higher wages than they were paid
on the Continent. There were English artisans in every large
town ow the Continent, from Ostend to Moscow. These men
were paid double the wages that were paid to Continental
workmen. Why? Because they earned them. These Conti-
nental capitalists did not send to England for the purpose of
getting dear labour. Their labour was cheaper ttian the la-
bour of the Continental labourer, because they were mere
skilful workmen, and they instructed the others, and thus they
were paid double wages, because they were worth doubie the
money that Continental workmen were. —( Cheers. )
Mr. Dux, of Paisley, had very little to add to the state-
ments already made by the Provost, except to observe on the
effect which the general distress had produced on the value of
property. Every one was aware that rents had in conse-
quence fallen one-half in Paisley, and even those reduced rents
could scarcely be collected. This was another ingredient in
the general distress, for those who had smite little property
were less able to afford relief to the sufferers in consequence
of the depreciation of their own property. There were WOW
inhabitants in Paisley, one-fifth of whom were living
on the other feur-fifths ; and unless some remedy were
devised, they would ultimately eat up the whole population.
He had been reminded since he came to this Conference of
the success of the manufacturers of the Continent, and he
understood that they had every improvement in Russia as soon
as here. He met the other day a friend newly returned from
St. Petersburgh, and that friend told him that he was sent by
the Russian Government to go over all the manufactories its
England, and observe everything that was going on in the
shape of improved machinery. There were six persons em-
ployed in the same way by the Russian Government. In six
months he would go back and report the result of his observe-
firms, whilst his place would be taken in this country by
another. 'l hey (the Conference) had seen that other countries
considered manufactures as of some importance. —( Hear,
hear.) Nor was it any wonder, for in manufactures consisted
the greatness of England. If it had not been for manufactures,
how wouLt it have been possible to spend 800,000,0001. in
expensive wars to prevent reform at home.—( Hear, hear.)
But unless trade were set free, it was certain
that the manufactures of other countries would continue
to increase and ours to decrease. Our best artisans, as
well as our capitalists, were emigrating to America; the
strengthen, as well as add to the wealth of other Governments.
—( Hear, hear.) The aristocracy would find, too late, that
they had taken away the only thing on which their strength de-
pended.—(Hear, hear.) In the year 1838 he (Mr. Dick)
formed one of a Deputation who waited on Mr. Hume, and
urged him to let the Whigs be turned out, as they were doing
do good, and it was desirable that the Tories should have an op-
portunity of showing the people how little could be expected
from them. It was his opinion that agitation should be carried
on in such a way as to crush the organic institutions of the
country, and to make the House of Commons what it ought to
be, the representative of the people.
Mr. WALKER, Delegate from Linlithgow, then addressed
the meeting. e said, after the many cases of distress that
have been already before the Conference, I conceive it quite
unnecessary almost to say snore on that subject. Yet merely
for the sake of showing how very general the depression of
trade is in every quarter of the country, I may simply rum over
a few facts. In the town of Linlithgow, whose staple trade is
the manufacturing of shoes, business has of late fallen off most
lamentably. It has been rapidly declining for the last nine
months, yet the master shoemakers; partly in sympathy for
their workmen, and partly in the hope of a revival of trade, if
not in the spring, at least in the beginning of summer, have
continued to employ their hands as long as they could possibly
afford to do so. But now, being completely disappointed of all
demand for those goods, and their stocks having accumulated
double the amount ever held on hand befere, they have been
reluctantly driven to the dire necessity of discharging a great
number of their workmen ; so that besides many in short I
employ, there has been, for the last two weeks, no less than
seventy workmen going about perfectly idle, there being no
masters in the present crisis of trade in a condition to give
them employment. Batbgate, a place in the neighbourhood,
and principally occupied by hand-loom weavers, is likewise
in a most deplorable state for want of employ-
ment. It is only the best hands who are in employ, (and
it may be a man with family), and earning
from three to four_ shillings per week, so much
are wages now reduced. Whitbarn, a small village, with
a hundred weavers, is also at the lowest ebb. Here employ-
ment for the present is not to be had at all. Blackburn,
another village, had lately two mills going, but now one is no
more, and the other at a stand still for a time, which thus
greatly augments the number of unemployed. Indeed, so bad
are prospects in these districts, that property in shops and
other buildings have fallen one-half in value. Beness,
Wirtlestan, South Queensbury, and every other village in the
county of Linlithgow are involved in the general distress and
depression of business that at present hangs so heavily on this
country. It is really grievous to contemplate the amount of
want and commercial distress that at present exists throughout
the land ; and it is even more grievous to contemplate that,
although there has been a clear mode of allevaition pointed out
—the abolition of the Corn-laws—yet we cannot preval on the
Legislature to see it. They cannot see it, or they will not see
it. Tu be sure, none are so blind as those that won't see. If ,
I remember rightly, I think it was Mr. Windham, who,
many years ago, exclaimed (in the fire of his imagination)
one night in the House of Commons—" Perish commerce ;
let the Constitution lire." Could anything be more sublime
and_ ridiculous? The idea of commerce perishing and the
Constitution pretending to live, notwithstanding, is most sublime
and ridiculous, indeed. Yet, the majority of our present
House of Commons seem to carry the sublime and ridiculous
eve nto a still higher degree, for they would not only perish
commerce, but their motto appears to be—" Perish commerce,
perish Coust it ut ion, perish everything; let the landed interest
Well, let it live, let.the gentlemen of the landed interest
live, but surely it is too much, too bad, that they should only
live on the ruin of all other classes. It cannot last—it must
not last.
Mr. TAYLOR, of Somer's-town, would not intrude himself
upon the meeting, but that, he should be ashamed to go back to
his constituents with the reproach of having been the silent
member. He should like to go back with power
to tell them that they could do something to pro_
mote the object_ —Ol for which they were leagued,u, hear.)
Sir Robert Peel had sent a person down to London Bridge to
sea what amt of persons went to Twickenham and ?mob and