The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-27 00:00:00

Zbirb Witation

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock.

RAILWAY COMMITTEES

(THIS DAY.)

Group F.

The Committee met again this day at I I o'clock, in Room No.
11. Present, the Right Hon. F. Shaw, Chairman ; Mr. V. Stuart,
Mr. Lockhart, Mr. Bramston, and Mr. Drummond. The Coin-
mittee resumed the inquiry into tho
LONDON, WORCESTER, AND SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE
RAILWAY.

Mr. W. Lewis examined by Mr. TNVALLS —Was mayor of Wor.

cotter in 1844. The meeting was convened by himself in an official
capacity. It was held in the month of March, and he presided.

The feeling was all in favour of the Great Western line. It was a

line which opened up a communication to the mining and agricul.
toral districts. It would cause a great increase of trade generally
to the South Staffordshire districts. All the towns affected
by the railway would feel the advantage of the communication. The
Great Western line would be seventeen miles nearer to the southern
districts than the line of the London and Birmingham.
The CHAIRMAN—ReaIIy I think it would be better for counsel to
examine as to the immediate bearings of their line. This makes
the eighteenth witness— I think eight would have been sufficient
for the purpose. I therefore hope the examination will be kept to
comparisons, and not as to the general utility of railway communi-
cation. for we are all agreed upon that head.

Examination resumed—Remembered a meeting on the 14th
keptcmber, and the public feeling was greatly in favour of the
Great Western line.

Cross-examined by Mr. DANIEL—At the meeting in March,
1844, the Great Western scheme included the town of Stratford,
and it was to that part of the line that the people of Worcester
gave their wannest assent.

Mr. Thomas Nelson Foster, examined by Mr. CRIPPS—Is a seed
crusher at Evesham. Crushes about 6,000 quarters of seed an-
nually, for making oil.eake. The course of the Great
Western line will open up a part of the country, to
which at
,gresent there was no access by canal, railway, or na.
vigable river. Attends the Chipping Norton market.
It is to that market that the greater part of the agricultural pro-
duce of the country goes. The principal districts to which
witness wished to get with his produce were Oxfordshire and Berk-
shire, which are not at present well. supplied. The Chipping
Norton market is not well supplied with coals. The Stratford
district is well supplied with coals and other produce, in con-
sequence of its water conveyance. The feeling of Evesham is
highly favourable to the Great Western line.
Cross-examined by Mr. DANIELS—At the meeting held in
March, 1844, the line proposed was to go through Stratford and
Banbury.—oil-cake was as much required in those places as in
Berkshire, and arable districts of the country.
Mr. Henry Webb, examined by Mr. Crtires—ls a dealer in seeds
and oils, and manufactures about 1,400 tons annually at Liverpool.
His trade with London was very small, as the carriage was so high.
A railway to Worcester by the Great Western line from Oxford
would be of great advantage to the traders of the districts. Is

acquainted with the goods stations of the competing
lines, and thinks the Great Western is the most
preferable of the two. Dealt considerably in salt, but
would double that trade if there were a railway to bring
it from Droitwich.

Mr. Robert Heman, examined by Mr. Twau.s—ls a farmer in
a very extensive way. Farms about 2,300 acres. Grows corn
and seed. Has much more than he can find a favourable market
for ; in fact, produces much more than could be consumed. Deals
largely in cattle, and was subject to the greatest inconvenience
from the want of a railway or Canal to Chipping Nor-
ton. The tram railway to Stratford was constructed
for the coal accommodation. On the first day that line was
opened ceals fell 10s. per ton. A railway direct to Chipping
Norton from the mineral districts would be of the greatest advan.
tageto the traders, both mineral and agricultural.

The CCAIRMAN—The promoters have now brought every de-
scription sf evidence in support of the superiority of their line
over the narrow gauge, and the only other class of evidence they
can bring forward now is that of a fox-hunter.—(Laughter.)
Examination continued—Has attended Reading market. The
price of the best wheat there last Saturday was 585., while in his
district it was selling at 445. The Great Western line was far
superior to the London and Birmingham, inasmuch as it went into
districts left untouched by the London and Birmingham line.

Cross-examined by Mr. HILDYARD—The Great Western line
would be of the greatest advantage to the mineral traffic. It was
also better adapted to agricultural produce than the London and
Birmingham. The broad gauge would be of more convenience to
the traders, the carriages would be more roomy, and the transit
would be so much better, for the goods would not be packed so
high upon each other as they would be in the narrow gauge
carriages.

The Cn►IRMAN—I really think we have had sufficient evidence
to prove that the public feeling in the South Staffordshire districts
is with the Great Western line, and I think it is but waste of time
to call more evidence on that point. The Committee are all satis-
fied that so far as the case for the promoters can be made out in
point of popularity, it has been done, and the evidence now ought
to be on the engineering.
Mr. TALBOT—A very patient hearing, Sir, was given to the other
side, and if the Committee are of opinion that our case must close,
there is an end of it.

The CHAIRMAN—ReaIIy we have been sitting here for three
weeks, and we have heard witnesses on the same points over and
over again, and it is high time we should draw to a conclusion.
Mr. TsLisor— At least, Sir, we are not to blame for all that
delay. We commenced late last week, and we surely must make
out our case. The evidence which we adduce is evidence in con.
tradiction to the other side.

Mr. E. L. Williams examined by Mr. TALBOT—Is engineer to
the Severn navigation. The traffic to Birmingham and South
Staffordshire is very great, ard requires railway accommodation.
Was decidedly in favour of the Great Western line for the
mineral and agricultural traffic of the districts. It would give
better recommodation than the London and Birmingham line.
Prom Droitwich alone comes at present 50,000 tons of salt, and
that amount would be more than doubled by the railway commu.
nication.

Cross-examined by Mr. HlLDYARD—Attended a meeting at
Worcester last September ; it was a meeting called to support the
great Western scheme. Not any one spoke in favour of the
London and Birmingham. He made a speech at that meeting,
and he expressed himself dissatisfied with the manner in which
the London and Birmingham Company had been treated. That
company was not represented at the meeting. Was not in favour
of the London and Birmingham line at that meeting, but he very
chivalrously felt it ought to have been represented, being a com-
peting interest. Had written for some shares in that Company for
the line going to Tring—did not obtain them. That was not why he
did not support the London and Birmingham line in preference to
the Great Western line. The latter was a better line for the die.
tacts. It was known that he intended to give evidence for the
Great Western line; and it was owing to that fact that he was
sacrificed—meant that the shares he had written for were sacrificed.
At this stage of the inquiry the Committee adjourned to twelve
o'clock to-morrow.

Group R.
DUBLIN AND ARMAGH RAILWAY.
The Committee met to-day at twelve o'clock, Mr. Gibson Craig
in the chair, when the examination of witnesses was resumed.
Mr. A. Dickson, distiller and miller, of Belturbet, in the county
of Cavan, was first examined. His evidence went to corroborate
the depositions of the witnesses of the previous day, but beyond this
there was no point advanced by him requiring special notice. He
was generally of opinion that the inland line would be of much
greater service to the county of Cavan than the Belfast Junction.

Sir John Burgoyne said he was one of a Commission appointed
in 1836, with the object of reporting on the most favourable lines
of railway in Ireland. They presented their first report on the
llth of March, 1837. The second report was presented on the
13th of J uly, 183 S. The Commissioners proceeded in the various
directions, according to the instructions of the Commission, to as-
certain the best mode of supplying the lines of communication, both
as to passenger traffic, and the development of the present and future
capabilities of Ireland. Engineers were appointed, amongst others
liar John M`Neill. Besides the employment of engineers for the
purpose of surveying, witness, along with his brother Commis-
sioners, took an active part in the proceedings. Their attention
was directed to is general system of railway communication, so as
to connect the most important towns and centres of traffic and
population in the kingdom. In carrying out this system of cem-
rnunication, the only lines they laid down were main or trunk lines.
A set of maps were made, and the principle they started
with, was to take Dublin as a starting point, and to lead from these
trunk lines through the most important districts. Having done
this, the next step was to inquire into the engineering difficulties,
and next to ascertain the probable amount of traffic, in order to
learn the prospect of their paying for the construction. The map
befo7e the Committee would show the trunk lines which were
then drawn out by the Commission. Many other lines
they endeavoured to ascertain the best line from Dublin to the
north. The Commission deemed a line going up from Dublin as
far as Navin, and from thence to Armagh, would be a very excel-
lent one. Finding that there was an Act of Parliament already
obtained for a line from Belfast to Portadown, they thought it the
best course to take the line to Armagh. It was further considered
at that time that au inland line would best develope the resources
of the country. They also gave attention to a line from
Dublin to Drogheda along the coast. At that time, how-
ever, an Act had been obtained for a tine to Drogheda,
and it had been surveyed. They had made statements in page 44
of their report, from information derived, during their investiga-
tions to the effect that the line proposed to be made from Drog-
heda to Dundalk and Newry was but a speculation that would
depend for its success altogether on the trade between the towns
named, and that the Carlingford mountains, would present almost
insurmountable engineering difficulties. With respect to the
coast line witness considered that if the line inland, recom-
mended by the Commission, was found, the coast line
would have to depend altogether on the traffic of the
towns along it. He thought the inland line the best adapted to
develope the agricultural resources of the country. With regard
to the best line for the wants of the northern district, suppos-
ing only one was CO be had, he thought the Great Western line
from Cavan to Enniskillen would be more useful than any of the
lines round, as far as opening up the resources of the country was
concerned.

Cross-examined by Mr. AUSTIN— He had not at any time
been of opinion that the coast line should not be carried
forward to Portadown and Newry. He believes that a
lino would be desirable so long as it did not interfere with the
*construction of the inland line. Ile thought the inner line should
have been constructed first, but, assuming that the inland line
could not be constructed, it would be advisable to carry on the
•Dublin and Drogheda to Belfast.
To the CHAIRMAN—His only objection to the coast line was, it
would interfere with the formation of the inner one. He was in
favour of both being constructed.
Re-examined by Mr. CHAMBERS—He was not enabled to say
sc.tiid i
whether the carrying of the Bill for the coast line this session
werebens tterfere with the passing of the inner line; the Committee
able to decide that question. Calculating upon tables
that had been drawn up in 1837, he was of opinion that both lines
might be made to pay.
To the ,HAIRMAN He would prefer the Dublin and Armagh,
and
Dublin, Cavan,' —and Enniskillen lines, to the Dublin, Cavan,
and Enniskillen, and to the Belfast Junction or coast line from
Drogheda to Portadown. He thought, however, there should be
three tines. lie hd objection to the coast line, but he con-
sidered the great trunk linese
should be first constructed.
To Mr. ALEXANDER--fi knew of no instance' in which the
report made eight years ago by the Commission had been acted
upon, but it had been in his Opinion departed from most injudi.
eiously. •
Mr. Lewis, agent to Lord Rossmore'
linesaid he was well acquainted
with the district through which the inland passed. He thought
that line would be of the greatest service in conveying the
agricultural produce of the country. The people of Monaghan
were decidedly in favour of this line. The mark
Monaghan are very considerable, and a line such asantdhefaoirnse in
f
question would be of great service in connecting the town with
the larger commercial lines.
Mr. H. Lindsay, civil engineer of Armagh, was next examined
--He had betn an engineer for 29 years. He had had his atten-
tion called to the railway between Dublin and Armagh somewhere
about the Seth of October last. He had also had his attention
willed to the coast line, which, in his opinion, presented geolo.
gical difficulties of a very serious character compared with the
inland line. Between Johnsburgh the rock was the transition
formation; in other parts of the line the primitive, or granite, pre.
vailed to a peat extent, through portions of which cuttings would
be required of from 40 or 50 feet. There were no such difficul-
ties on the inland line, as it was principally carried through the
carboniferous formation. He objected to the coast line on account of
the steepness of the gradients, there being a number of them running
from I in 100 to 1 in 108. The average gradients over the whole
line were one in 208. The gradients of the inland line ware as
two tie sae in its 'print., compared will the coast line. With respect

to the cuttings and embankments, it would be about equal, leaving
out of consideration the crossing of the Boyne and the filling
up of the valley at Newry; but the great difference would be in
the soil to be cut ; the granite prevailed in the coast line, and he
thought it impossible to have it cut at Is. 6d. a yard, as had been
proposed. He had known as much as 4s. paid, and on the Dublin and
Kingston as much as ss. The bridge over the Boyne, he thought,
would cost 100,0001. He considered the elevation of the line at Newry
so far above the quays very objectionable, and likely to be a cause
of danger. The amount of population that would be benefited on
the inland line, taking ten miles on each side, was 574,560. In
point of trade, and in point of payment and remuneration, he
was decidedly of opinion that the inland line was superior to
the coast line. If the coast line were formed, cross lines
would still be required to Enniskillen, Dundalk, and other
places, to the extent of 121 miles, whereas cross lines of 50
miles in connexion with the inland line would give the same-
amount of accommodation, thus making a balance of 71 miles in
favour of the inland scheme.

The Committee then adjourned till Thursday, at twelve o'clock

Group K.
LOWESTOFFE:RAILWAY AND HARBOUR.
The discussion on this Bill was resumed this morning by the con-
sideration of the clauses, all of which, being unopposed, were passed
after slight alterations. The following important clause, however,
which was carried last night in the House of Commons' compulsory
on all railway companies, was inserted in the Bill :—" Be
it enacted that nothing herein contained shall be deemed or
construed to exempt the railway, by this or the said recited Acts
authorised to be made, from the provisions of any general Act re-
lating to such Bills, or of any general Act relating to railways,
which may hereafter pass during the present or any future session
of Parliament, of the maximum rates of fares and charges autho-
rised by this Act." This being the first case in which the above
west important clause has been applied, great interest was evinced
as to the spirit in which it would be met by the railway companies.
The agents for the Bill expressed their perfect concurrence in the
principle of the clause, and the Committee gave an unequivocal
opinion on the expediency of its insertion, and its invaluable benefit
to the public.

A few protective clauses, suggested by the opposing parties and
agreed to by the promoters of the line, being inserted, the Bill was
passed, and the Committee proceeded to the discussion c,f