The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-22 00:00:00

BAT MASK TS,

, y cm Or,
SMITHFIELM—Coarse Meadow Hay, gi 108 to 41
ful do., 4/ 16s to 5/8s ; fine Upland do., 5/10s to 5/ 158 i foft
Hay, 4/ 10s to 61; Oat Straw, I/ 183 to 2l; Wheat if, r-
dr
21 to 2/ 2s per load. A moderate supply, and a stool
mand.
41163 $
CUMBERLAND.—Coarse Meadow Hay, 3/ 12s to - co'
useful ditto, 4117 s to 5l 9s ; fine Upland ditto, 5/10s to 5,1.,11.;
Clover Hay, 418 s to 51 18s ; Oat Straw, 11 18s to wool
Wheat Straw, 21 2s to 21 3s per load. Both Hay
St raw met a steady inquiry-, at full prices. 1511$
WurrucaarKL.--Coarse Meadow Hay, 3/ lOs to 4/ se
useful ditto, 4l 16s to 5/ 7s ; fine Upland ditto, 51 gs2ll
Si 16s ; Clover Hay, 4/ lOs to 6/3s ; Oat Straw, 11 180 to de,
Wheat Straw, 21 to 21 2s per load. Supply but ta°der-
ind trade firm.

COLONZAZ. bur
Snan.R.---The market for British Plantation is fire the
only about 300 hhds have been sold ; in consequence
we
small quantity on show, rather higher prices have, he_',l,
again been paid, establishing an advance of ft" the
since last Friday week, more particularly enoffereil
lower sorts. The public sales have ollif holi of
10,941 bags, 240 casks Mauritius, the if spirit,
which found buyers and went off with touch
3:1-'
at prices establishing an advance of fully is to 27
nid
descriptions, but more particularly upon the low and
sorts. Very low to fine brown brought 35s to 420 atoll
low to fine yellow 43s to 565. The only transaction Pro' 000
consists of a large cargo of Porto Rico, containing nearly I' /gf
hhds, which have been sold (afloat) on speculation at 2,r
deliverable over the ship's side in London, the be),,d
paying the landing charges, and about 4,000 bags g°6-d,
clayed yellow Manilla, with certificate, at 23s to 23s ft
which is again rather dearer, and 1,000 bags very low vs°6,
brown, of old importation, at 17a 3d. The quantity 01. vA;$
tish Plantation landed last week at the East and West .10`.-0
Docks was 1,466 hhds 136 tierces 93 barrels, and there web,.
taken for home consumption, 1,380 hhds 74 tierces 129 barred©
The stock in the same places is 8,211 hhds 634 tierces 1,
barrels.
COFFEE.—The market is quiet.
Rime.---The quantity landed last week at the East read
West India Docks was 196 puns, 325 hhds; there were ti!
for home consumption 203 puns, 19 hhds, and exportea_,
puns, 16 hhds. The stock in the same places is 8,570 per'
2,499 hhds.
Ile i(P
RICE.-850 bags Bengal at auction sold readily at .0.
12s for mid broken to good mid white, being extreme r3fr,004
SALTPETRE.—I,9B7 bags Bengal were only partly dilll
of at 24s to 27s for 10* to 3i per cent. refraction, 1011*—
again a shade cheaper.
TALLow.—P.Y.C. is dull, at 38s per cwt on the spot,
Town 41s per cwt.
TEA.—There are public sales of about 20,000 packages
to-day.
INDbao.—The quarterly sales were brought to a close 9
terday. The quantity bought in was 840 chests,
that actually sold 4,197 chests, about one-half being 1,6
home use. The attendance was goo,' hroughout, and i';o
biddings were steads-. Compared with tne Januarj
_et iog
good to fine Bengal realised full prices, good dried copsnr-so,
sorts went 2d to 4d per lb lower, and ord, including Me" 108,
Kurpah, Oude, &c., from January rats to 2d per lb decl je,
Fine Blue Bengal sold at 5s 3d to 5 8d per lb, fine Parr r&
and violet at 55 to 5s 10d, mid ditto 3s 9d to 4s 3d, and
copper and violet 2s to 3s 3d per lb. ()tide' fine and g—na
3s 10d to 4s 2d, mid and ord 2s 6d to 3s Sd. Madras, fine and
good 3s 6d to 4s, mid and ord 2s to 3s 4d. Kurpah, fine did
good 3s 6d to 4s, mid and ord 2s to 3s 6d ; and Manila,
and ord is 7d to 3s per lb.

GOAL MILT.
Prices per ton at the closeIVIL ofL the market :—Carr's Hartle,,'!
16s 6d ; Chester Main, 15s 9d ; Eden Tanfield, 14s ; Hastinq,
Hartley, 178 ; Holywell Maio, 16s ; North Tanfield, 1256
Old Pontop, I3s 6d ; Ord's Redheugh, 14s 9d; Pontop Wind,
sor, 14s; Taylor's West Hartley, 16s 3d; Townley, ..155!
West Hartley, 17s; West Wylam, 15s 6d; Wylam, d.
Wall's •end Bewicke and Co., 18s 6d ; Killingworth, 1656;
Urpeth, 16s ; Whitworth 16s ; Braddyll's Hetton, 2053 u:
Hetton, 20s 3d ; Lambton, 20s 3d : Pemberton, 17s 6d ; Cars
do; 20s ; Heselden, 16s 9rl; South Kelloe, 19s 3d ; kdeil
Hartlepool, 17s; Tees, 193 6d; Brynddwy, hand picked.
20s 6d; Powell's Duffrvn Steam, 22s 3d; West Hartle,'
Netherton, 16s 3d. —Shl6s arrived, 32.

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.
(THIS DAY.)
Sub-Committee (No. 1.)
The Committee, consisting of Mr. Strutt, Chairwan, Mir
V. Stuart, Mr. Compton, Mr. Beckett, and Mr. Cavertdi°'
met in room No. 7 this morning.
DISS AND COLCHESTER RAILWAY.
The case was resumed this morning, and the Committed
proceeded with a great number of allegations respecting tb:
plans. These were all of a technical character, and a grea
number were sustained.
LYNN AND ELY.
The Committee met this morning some time after twerie
o'clock; Lord Palmerston in the chair.
The Committee proceeded to hear evidence on the part
the South Level and Eaubrink Commissioners. The firs'
witness called was--
Josiah Human, who was examined by Mr. PAGET. Ms
evidence was to the effect that the water of the Ouse WI
confined between embankments called the " New Cut," whic"'
prevented the water from overflowing the country. There
were also puddle walls, which were impervious to the water.
If any injury was done to the puddle walls the water would
permeate and lay the railway three or four feet under water.
Very strong vibration, or an unequal pressure upon the env
bankments, would be injurious to those walls. No embank-
ments ought to be made within 100 feet of the puddle walls.
After this witness had given his evidence, it was ogre"!
between the parties that the engineers on both sides shots)"
confer together, and come to some arrangement as to the
distance at which the line of railway was to be carried which
would protect the embankments from injury.
11r. Little, the superintendent of the works of the Eau-
brink Commissioners, was then examined, and gave evidence
of the same character with respect to the injury which would
accrue to the surrounding country, if any injury was done
to the cuts. The land in the neighbourhood of the Eaubrink
is very valuable.

GROUP T.
This Committee, which has several projected railvar in
the Midland counties committed to its consideration, met to-
day at twelve o'clock; Sir George Grey in the chair. Vbere
were five Members present.
The CHAIRMAN said they would take the London, Bed-
ford, and Birmingham first, as it was unopposed.
'Phis is a branch line proposed to be formed from the town
of Bedford to connect it with the London and Birmingham
It has been favourably reported on by the Board of

'rade.

Mr. BunKE appeared for the company. and called evidence
on their behalf to show the advantages that would result to
Bedfordshire by this line, and that the standing orders bed
been complied with.
The Committee decied the preamble of the Bill to be
proved, and then proceeded to the consideration of the clausce•
Clauses from 41 to 47, which have reference to the levying of
fares and tolls on the line, were postponed until the decision
of the House was known respecting the rate of fares that
should be imposed on railways generally. Several other
clauses and amendments were agreed to, and the further
consideration of the Bill was adjourned.
THE PETERBOROUGH AND SYSTON RAILWAY.
Mr. AUSTIN appeared in favour of this Bill, which has
been favourably reported on by the Board of Trade. The
Learned Gentleman stated at some length the advantages that
would result to the inhabitants of the east coast by the con-
struction of this line. The engineering difficulties were very
few, and the prospect of a profitable return for the investment
of capital very great.
Petitions were presented #gainst, the direction in which the

he would bear testimony to the ability and assiduity
with which his Noble Friend Lord Dalhousie had inves-
tigated the questions submitted to the Committee under
his management.—(Hear.) The imperfection of the
mode in which railway Bills were investigated
in the House, where the subject was but
little understood, was admitted upon all bands. In 1839, a
Committee was appointed, the result of which was the recom-
mendation to refer all railway Bills in the first instance to a
Committee of the Board of Trade. The members of the
Board of Trade were subjected to the strong suspicion that
they had encouraged gambling speculations, by communicating
information to certain parties who had speculated in railroads.
Now, he would take that opportunity of declaring explicitly
and solemnly, that no member of the Railway Board had either
directly or indirectly conveyed to any person interested in par-
ticular railway schemes any information of what the decisions
of the Board of Trade were likely to be, till after:the decisions
were publicly made known. The Honourable Gentle-
man referred to the change of value which had
taken place in the London and York and Cambridge lines.
Why, that was the result of speculations on the Stock Ex-
change, totally uninfluenced by anything that transpired from
the Board of Trade. There were three competing lines, rod
two of them had coalesced, not in consequence of any eueges-
tion from the Board of Trade, but (as he supposed) eons the
consideration that it would be their interest. This saving be-
come known on the Stock Exchange, it was natually conjec-
tured that such coalition would strengthen the claim before
Parliament and the Board of Trade, and tb; would account
for the rise in the value of their shares. Tte Hon. Gentleman
had gone at great length into the reason f, the Board of Trade
giving a preference to the Direct No-eern Railway and the
Cambridge and Lincoln Railway err the London and York
Railway. The reports of the ward of Trade had not been
laid before the House se,te a view of binding the
House, but mere" s- the purpose of supplying neces-
;are informat'-'
and for the purpose ef putting the
House inesession of the opinion of the Board of Trade,
after a, .samination bad been made by them into the schemes
„ ;lick they offered their opinion. These reports were
'Tito prejudice the interests of private individuals, who would
have full and ample opportunity before the Committee of sup-
porting their views, and of contesting the opinion given by
the Board of Trade. The decision upon the various schemes
was left entirely to the Committees of that House. The Com-
mittees of the House had dealt with reports that came before
them in such a way as they conceived they were called upon
by the evidence before them; but some allowance should be
made for the great number of Bills that were brought before
them every day, when Hon. Members intended to find fault
with those decisions. Under those circumstances, he did
think that, in furtherance of the views of that House,
he would not be unreasonable in asking the Hon. Member
to define the cases of which he had to complain.
He understood that a charge had been made against the Board
of Trade, of which he was a member, that the reports of the
Railway Department of that Board were not sent before the
Select Committees on the Bills. He (Sir G. Clerk) should
have thought that the Hon. Member for Finsbury, before
making these charges, had well ascertained the reality on
which he founcled his accusation. He would, with the per-
mission of the House, read to that Hon. Member the standing
order upon this subject. It would be found at page 25, and
was to this effect, that every report made by the Board of
Trade should be referred to the Committee on the Bill, to
which it had reference. Under these circumstances, he trusted
that the Howe would give the experiment a fair trial before
they consented to any of the alterations or improvements sug-
gested by the Hon. Member. He trusted, before the House
gave their opinion upon the question, that they would wait and
see what were the opinions of the Committee upon the sub-
ject. He opposed the motion of the Hon. Member for
Finsbury.
Mr. LABOUCHERE thought the nature of the standing
order had been somewhat misunderstood by his Hon. Friend
the Member for Finsbury, as well as by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman who had just sat down. With regard to the reports of
the Board of Trade, he was not prepared to say whether they
were really deserving of credit or not; but of this there could
be no doubt—they would receive the strict scrutiny of a com-
mittee of that House, whose report would be laid on the table
before the end of the session, when they would be able to say
positively whether the reports of the Board of Trade were de-
serving the consideration of the House or not. On that ground
he was not prepared to support the motion of his Hon. Friend.
At the same time, he did not regret that his
Honourable Friend had brought the question before
the House, for however ready he might be to admit the ta-
lent and abilities of Lord Dalhousie, an 1 the other members of
the Railway Department of the Board of Trade, there was no
doubt the Board had committed serious mistakes and errors.
In his opinion, a great error was committed in the constitu-
tion of the Railway Board. It was an anomaly:in the constitu•
tion, and in his opinion it would have been much better if the
B lard of Trade had taken the authority and responsibility on
itself. He hoped, therefore, Government would give the sub.
j ect their best consideration, and see whether some alteration
eoold not be made in the present machinery of the Board of
Trade, so far as it related to railway matters. It appeared to
him that the Rail way Department had, in some measure, mistaken
the objects for which they were appointed. What was the ol'jcct?
It was this. They were told last year that railway legislation
had reached that point when it was necessary to establish a
tribunal to go into matters connected with railways, which
could not, by any possibility, or without incurring vast and un-
necessary expense, he broils ht before a Committee of the House
of Commons. Accordingly, powers were given to the Board
ef Trade to establish a tribunal of this nature, but it was in-
tended that the Railw,y Department of the Board of Trade
should be instrumental in affording information to the Com-
mittees, and not that the Railway Department of the Board of
Trade should take upon itself to pronounce a peremptory de-
cision upon any scheme which might be laid before them. In-
stead, however, of this being the ease, he could not help re-
marking that this fault run through all their reports, namely,
that they had adopted a peremptory and decisive tone. In
some instances the Board appeared to have entered into certain
arrangements with particular companies, for he found, in some
of their reports, that one consideration for their reporting in
favour of such and such a scheme was, that the company had
undertaken to charge low rates of fares. Now this was cer-
tainly an important principle, but the Railway Board had failed
to apply it t, all railways alike. For instance, in the case of
the Great Western Railway, no considerations of this nature
appeared to have ;,aided the Board in forming their conclu-
sions respecting the le anehes promoted by that company, not-
withstanding it already possessed a large and powerful mo-
nopoly, which in some respects militated against the wish of
the public. With regard to the motion before the House, he
certainly did think it would be most unwise and injudicious to
pass a standing order in one session and repeal it in the next.
Mr. GLADSTONE hoped the House would tree in the
construction put upon the motion by the Right Hon. Gentle-
man who had just resumed his seat, because they now stood in
this position—every one of these reports had been laid upon
the table of the house; some of them had actually been re-
ferred to Committees, and others were about to be referred,
and it was impossible they could he of any value whatever in
guiding those Committees if they rescinded the standing order in
question. Generally speaking, he considered these reports
were valuable documents, in so far as they opened the imme-
diate question which each Committee would have to discuss.
Ile therefore submitted whether, at the present moment, it
would not be exceedingly injudicious to make any arrangement
which sht'nld withhold these reports from the consideration of
the Committee. He regretted exceedingly that the standing
order in question was not passed through the House till so late
a period of the last session, but at the same time he must
protest against the assertions which some Hon. Members had
made, that the order was smuggled through the House. The
subject generally extended over the whole session, for he believed
the first motion made was for a Select Committee to inquire
into the best mote of railway legislation. That Com-
mittee was immediately afterwards appointed, and,
so soon as its labours wire brought to a
close, a Bill was framed and brought in, founded
upon the report. Ile entertained a very different opinion to
that of the flight Hon. Gentleman who last addressed the
House respecting the appointment of the railway department of
the Board of Trade. It was quite impossible for the Board
to have taken the duties and functions of the Railway Board
upon itself, because its duties and sphere of action was already
sufficiently extended without adding to it. Then, again, the
appointment of the Railway Department of the Board was
purely of an experimental character, and if errors had been
committed, they were errors of a remedial tendency, but, at all
events, without the assistance of such a Board, it would have
been quite impossible for Government to have got through the
vast mass of railway business which had sprung up
within the last six months.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
He thought that the Hon. Member for Finsbury was prejudg-
ing a question which was not yet in a fit state for decision.—
( Hear. ) The Hon. Gentleman said that they ought to have
limited a certain company to a maximum of charges. But it
appeared to the Beard of Trade, that the case in question was
not one to which the principle of a maximum ought to be ap-
plied ; nor, indeed, could the principle apply equally in all
cased. Every case should be considered on its own peculiar
circumstances; and in some cases it would be for the advantage
of the public to fix a maximum of charges, whereas in others
there could be no limitation without a risk of putting an end to
the works altogether. On the whole, he thought the House
ought not to prejudge the question as to the efficiency of the
railway department of the Board of Trade. It had been ad-
mitted that their reports wet-, drawn up with great ability, and
although he did not agree with them in all their de-
tails, he thought it would be unwise to interrupt
their progress, tiler all the inconveniences had been gone
thought, and the House was about to reap the advantages.—
( Hear.) He thought that nothing would be more unwise than
at this moment of time to attack the reports as a whole, in con-
sequence of alleged errors in respect to a particular line ; and
it was admitted that any errors which had been committed
were errors of judgment, no malversation being alleged. He
thought that any allusion to the reports on particular lines—
such for instance as the London and York—ought to be
avoided at the present time, when the reports were going into
very stringent examination in the Committees, where they
would be subject to the hostile scrutiny of wealthy parties.—
( Hear.) There could be no doubt that when the reports
were. against the justice of the case they would be rejected. He
thought that it would be dangerous to go into the subject at
this moment—and he would not express a wish that the House
would reject the motion, but that the Hon. Gentleman would
withdraw it---(Hear, )
Mr. GISBORNE could not agree with the defence set up
by the Right lion.teintte tleemoaia who last spoke, for the conduct
of the Railway Committee
the Board of Trade. The re-
ports of that department were
torete last patch upon our patchwork
of railway legislation. Th
of Trade had volunteered to
do that patchwork. In the evidenced before the Committee of
last session all the witnesses from the Board of Trade stated
that they alone could do this business, and he believed the con-
sequence would be that the Board would engross the whole
power of railway legislation. He believed that the reports
would have great influence on the judgments of Committees of
the House, and that in all doubtfßuloctwaeasstheyth would follow the
the manner in which
advice of the Board of Trade.
the Board despatched the business sufficient entitle
f them to
that confidence ?—( The Hon. Member then quoted from a re-
cently-published pamphlet a statement to the effect
. that the
Railway Committee of the Board having 2,500 Bills before
e of
them in September, made up their judgment upon inspectionan
plans and examination of surveyors'
liehed the official report in November.) The ingenuity onfpmubn
could scarcely devise a more certain means of error. —(A
laugh.) They did not hesitate to decide against the general prin-
ciple of competing lines.—( No, no,) But the fact was that
the public were already deriving the advantage from the fear of
competition—in reduced fares and improved accommodation—
so much, that we heard very little now of the complaints which
were ao general a year ago. He could not approve either of their
decision respecting the compulsion of parties to complete their
lines, whether they could or not.—( Hear, hear.) There was
one line, now in existence ten years, which had been able to
advance no farther than thirty miles from want of public sup-
port. According to the Board of Trade, that company should
be compelled to go on, though they might sell to a richer com-
pany able to carry on the works. If they offered the line for
sale they would be in the condition of the negro pig-dealer.—
(A laugh.) The negro offered his pig for sale to a white,
who would not have it because it was a little one.—(A laugh.)
" Yes, massa," says the negro, " him be little, but him d--
old.''—(Laughter.). —(Laughter.) He thought the statement of e Railway
Committee on another matter was quite as funny.--(A laugh. )
They stated that of two lines to
.Harwich, which they called
A and B, they preferred A ; but as there was a Peer in con-
nexion with the line, they sent to the Admiralty, and the Ad-
miralty sent back (they did not say whether by a porter, or
bow) that they preferred line B. The Board of Trade
preferred it also. Having seen how the Board did
their duty, and how little pains they took to arrive at a righ
=Wiwi, let the Howe look to the next step They Fob

lished the reports two months before the meeting of Parliament.
Now, they said that it was not intended that the report should
have any effect upon the value of shares. Why, then, was it
published in the Gazette ?—( Hear.) What other elc ct would
the publication have, but to raise some shares a, d depress
others? And the fact was so. It was known that shares
which had been at a discount rose to a premium, and others
which had been at a premium fell to a discount. If this depart-
ment of the Board of Trade was to exist, he thought the Go-
vernment ought to give it a Parliamentary and
Legislative character, and not the picked up one it at present
had. If the House was to place it under some legislative con-
troul, he had no objection to its existence.—( Hear. )
Colonel SIBTHORP believed that the Board that had been
constituted on the subject of railways, which be destested—
(Laughter)—was most unconstitutional, and led to more
gambling transactions than any institution that had ever been
introduced into the country.—( Hear, hear.) They were worse
than the gambling transactions that took place during the time
of the rage for lotteries.—( Cheers.) He was not sure whether
the people had sec gone more mad on the subject of railroads
than they bad with respect to 1 dteries.—( Hear, hear.) At
least ;t was enough for him to say that his experience, and that
was not small, justified him in asserting that on no subject had
he ever seen so much foolery displayed or so much money
squandered.--( Hear, hear.) He apprehended that the most
serious consequences would result from these schemes, and
that they would ultimately tend to the injury of every good
proposition (Hear, hear, and laughter.) For himself, he
was glad to confess that he was free of railways—(Laughter)
—and he had always been of lotteries.—(Laughter.) He
meant to keep so. He thought that in most cases the
opinion of the Board of Trade with respect to railways had
been, if not most erroneous, at least defective—( Cheers. )
He believed that the gentlemen who formed the Committee on
railways in the Board of Trade were men of the highest in-
tegrity--( Hear, hear)—but if the Hon. Member who had
brought forward the resolution had made a motion impeaching
the Government for appointing such a Board he would have
supported him.—(Hear, hear.) It might be con-
sidered selfish on his part, but he must confess
he should like to see every Member of that House
brought to the table, and asked upon his solemn oath whether
or not he was connected with railways ?—( Hear, hear.) If
he thought railroads would benefit the public, no man would
be more forward than himself to support them; but, believing
that they would have an opposite effect, he would most deter-
minedly and strenuously oppose the motion.—( Hear. )
Mr. BERNAL considered that great gratitude was due to
the Hon. Member for Finsbury, in bringing forward the present
motion, as he thought that great benefit would result to the
public from it. Much had been said on the constitution of
the Committee on the Board of Trade on railroads—he would
not say much on that subject.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.)
How that experiment would turn out it was impossible for him
to say, but he would express a hope that it would be success-
ful, and that the railway projects it had approved of would be
carried out.—( Hear, hear.) But at the same time he could
not but express a hope that the enormous speculations that
were now going on with respect to other lines would be put
an end to; because it must be apparent to all that in the
speculations that were taking place, nobody contemplated as
they ought to do the ruin that was likely to ensue from such
speculations.—( Hear.) He did not augur so favourably of this
experiment as others Cid. He wondered how the Board of
Trade were enabled to do even what they had done. The
Hon. Gentleman then proposed an amendment, that an humble
address be presented to Her Majesty, that she may be pleased
that all documents and statements relating to any railway Bill er
project be laid before this House, and that the proposals of every
such Bill should be presented to the House, and that the coun-
sel and agents connected therein should have leave to inspect
all such statements and documents.
Lord HOWICK agreed with his Hon. Friend that they
would be greatly indebted to the Hon. Member for Finsbury for
bringing this motion before the House, as it was one of great
importance and ought to be well considered. He agreed with
the reasons which had been assigned by Hon. Gentlemen for
not pressing the original motion of the Hon. Member for Fins-
bury, as he (Lord Howick) was of opinion that the Hon. Gen-
tleman had not correctly read the standing order which he
wished to have rescinded. He thought that the offer which
had been made by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite to lay
these documents before the House would be a most valuable
concession, and one which his Hon. Friend should be perfectly
satisfied with. The Right Hon. Gentleman the late President
cf the Board of Trade said, that it was premature to discuss
the manner in which the duties of the Board of Trade should
be performed. He (Lord Howick) thought that the reports
of the Board of Trade were calculated to carry great weight
with them, and a great deal of injustice would be done by their
entertaining any prejudices against any party. And, in order
to do away with such injustice, they should carefully look to
the conduct of the Board. There was no blame to be attached
to any individual member of the Board. There was no doubt
that they had performed the duties entrusted to them ; and he
would go further, and say that they had shown considerable
diligence and ability in the performance of those duties. But,
notwithstanding that, he was bound to add that those duties
had not been satisfactorily performed—not from their
fault, but because they had imposed on them duties
which it was physically impossible for them to perform.--
Now, without casting any blame on any individual officer, it
was proper for their own sakes that this question should be
brought distinctly before the House. He would take this op-
portunity of saying that the manner in which the reports were
drawn up, and the result of their inquiries, were entirely un-
satisfactory. With regard to carrying on proceedings in the
Board of -Trade, they were told that the Board of Trade had
received statements from the parties concerned, and that the
opposing parties had not had submitted to them the
statements of the opponents. They had no opportunity of
pointing out the errors fallen into by their opponents, or
their misstatements or misrepresentations. Interviews hail
taken place, in which only one party was heard. Was this a
proceeding which was likely to succeed in eliciting the facts of
the case? How was it possible that the Board of Trade, re-
ceiving statements fetm certain parties, not exposed to the
scrutiny and examination of those against whom they were
directed—how was it possible that they could correct the
errors and ascertain the misrepresentations contained in those
statements? And if they looked into those reports they would
find that there were direct and palpable blunders in point of
fact of seli,Ats importance. He would not go through many
instances of the kind. There was a petition en the table com-
plaining of the Board of Trade, with reference to their pro-
ceedings in connexion with the South-Eastern Railway. In
this petition there nas a distinct allegation of material errors
fallen into by the Board of Trade ; and the parties were so
confident that they could prove those errors, that all they asked
was, that they should be allowed to have the matter referred
back to the Board of Trade. The Hon. Member for that part
of the country (the Member for Maidstone) made a motion to
that effect ; but the Right lion. Member the President of
the Board of Trade declined all discussion on that point. The
Board of Trade in that instance, in comparing two different
lines, stated that one line had considerably heavier earth-
work than the other, but it was capable of proof that that line
which was represented as being of heavier work was actually
much easier. It had also been stated in the petition that the
Board of Trade had recommended a certain line in consequence
of the cheapness of the fare, but at the same time forgot to
state in the report that another company had offered to
b. ing the fares still lower. These were facts
which it was essentially necessary to point out to the considera-
tien of the House for its guidance in the adoption of Railway
Bills. They had pointed out to them two circumstances
which should be particularly attended to. The first was—
when a lorg line of railway ran into one having a short
tr ific as such junctions produced fearful collisions, and was
attended with great danger, there was a recommendation
from the House that a statement of that fact should be
given by the B -ard whenever it occurred. There was another
objection—railways passing a public road ; and it was a stand-
ing order that every case of that kind should be distinctly
pointed cut to the House, as it was considered most essential
to the public safety. put, notwithstanding these recommenda-
tions, in the South-Eastern schemes, where there existed 25
crossings of public roads, including in these crossings four in
the populous town of Deptford, none of these facts were ever
noticed or pointed out by the Board of Trade. He held in his hand
a railway communication from Scotland, in which it was begged
to direct the attention of the Committee to a level passing over
a road which might be considered one of the most public streets
of Glasgow. These were omissions of material facts, which
made the reports of the Board of Trade most unsatisfactory, and
most unfit to direct the judgment of the House. He could not
help observing, on coming to lock at several of their
reports on railway Bills, that they were, as in the cases
just mentioned, perfectly inconsistent with each other. What
in one case they deemed a matter of the greatest importance,
in other caws they over passed without the slightest notice.
They very often decided right, but it generally happened that
every point which made against the railway which they recom-
mended, and in favour of that to which they objected, was en-
tirely kept in the back -ground, and on the other hand every thing
which could be urged in favour of the line, and against those
who objected to it—every such point was placed in the strongest
light in which it was possible for an able arrangement to put it.
hese were the inconsistencies contained in the reports of the
Board of Trade, and they might be thus accounted for, for he
found in the minutes which were laid upon the table, that the
general nature of their decisions showed that they came
to those decisions long before they made their reports.
The usual course was to publish the announcements of the
proposed lines in the Gazette, and when the Board of Trade
had announced their derision, they went on to other cases,
and then drew up their report. and it did so happen that in
many such cases those in favour of the line carried it; and,
therefore, the Board of Trade were naturally induced, in the
absence of all opposition, to report in favour of that line, and
it followed that the Committee reported in the same
way. The Board of Trade must, in all instances, bear
in mind the statements they had received, and on these alone
should they make their reports. He was the more convinced
that this was the fact because he found that in one of the
cases reported on by the Board of Trade, that report was
founded upon a speech made by a shareholder at a meeting
entirely in favour of a certain line.—( Hear.) Therefore, he
would say, that he did think that the grounds he had stated
warranted bim in coming to the conclusion that the reports of
the Board of Trade had been framed in the fallacious manner he
had endeavoured to describe. However, he was willing to admit
that the blame did not rest quite so much upon the Board of Trade
as had been imagined, for the officers of that Board had re-
peatedly stated, that it was physically impossible for them
to sift out from the vast mass of evidence before them, suffi-
cient facts to warrant them in coming to a satisfactory conclu-
sion upon any particular case. On these grounds, then, he
would say, that it was wrong in some measure to make the
Board of Trade subservient to that House. He did not mean
to say that there were not faults to be found elsewhere, but be the
fault where it might, greater care should be observed in matters
where the public interests were deeply concerned, and that the
views of the Board of Trade should not be hastily or rashly
taken up by the House or the Committees of the House.
And he would also contend for it that the House should not
entrust the Beard of Trade with such an amount of power and
responsibility as they had hitherto exercised. The House
should have proceeded much mere cautiously and guardedly
than they had done in such projects. If they intended to make
such changes as had been suggested by his Hon. Friend, the
sooner they withheld a portion of the authority now vested in
the Board of Trade the better, for it was preposterous to sup-
pose that it ever could have been contemplated to invest the
Board of Trade with the power of the disposal of property of
such a vast amount as that which they now enjoyed. From
the course that had hitherto been pursued by the
Board of Trade, it would appear that the House
had been framing rules and regulations to very little
purpose, because the Vice-President of that Board had ad-
mitted that they had gone mush further in the exercise of
their functions than the Legislaturei had ever intended they
ssthaotueldd,thbautt
tahtetßohe
asardmehatdime
found that
ait Right Hon. Gentleman had
impossible not to go Jbeyond
the line marked out by the Legislature.To this he would
reply that there was a limit of authority.t conceded by the
ptielein elidby the House,
exceed these
House to all Boards and Committees
beyond which they should not go. lafp
regulations then all he could say was that tlysis Hon had been
making rules to very little purpose. He (Lord Woe •
con-
ceived that the duty of a Committee on all subjectsick) nected with railway matters was to weigh well the ere"-
a
sons laid before them that would warrant them in reporting
in favour of the line ; and to report accordingly to the
House. On these grounds then, he would say, that he
cordially concurred in the motion of the Hon. Member for
Finsbary, and hoped that the House would concur in making
the necessary amendeents in the present system.
Lord G. SOMERSET said he entirely concurred with the
Noble Lord opposite, in so far as the present business of the
Hoorn in rilway questions should not be transferred to any
other tribunals, but at the same time he should say, that
he never considered the decisions of the Railway Committees

or of the Board of Trade, as binding upon
that House. He (Lord G. Somerset) was willing to admit that
he had been in error in reference to some technical points,
and, therefore, he would wish to know whether it was the in-
tention of the Hon. Member for Fin-bury to press his motion.
He (Lord G. Somerset) understood that the Hon. Member
intended to withdraw it ; if not, he (Lord G. Somerset)
should certainly say he had a great objection to it.
Mr. HAWES said he had read one of the reports of the
Board of Trade with considerable care—he alluded to the report
on the South-Eastern schemes. A more inaccurate and more

careless document had never issued from any public body ; and
yet they had been told that these documents were intended to guide
the decisions of the House. Why such documents would only
mislead the House. The Board of Trade had assumed the
position of advocates and partisans. What was contained in
the circular letter that had been issued to the Parliamentary
agents? There was one part of that circular which the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite had entirely omitted to notice. The
passage to which he (Mr. Hawes) referred was as follows—"I
am directed by the Lords of the Committee of the Privy Coun-
cil for Trade to call your attention to the course of
proceeding with regard to railway Bills intrusted to your
care, which will become necessary in order to give effect
to the supervision of the Board of Trade over such Bills
during their progress through Parliament." Why was
it intended that the Board of Trade should have
the supervision of railway Bills, when they were before Par-
liament? He would be glad to have this matter examined into.
By the existing arrangement of the Board of Trade, parties
who wished to submit information to the Board, pending an
inquiry, were prevented doing so. It was quite clear that
such a tribunal as that, acting, as it necessarily must, with
great precipitation, could never give satisfaction. It might
be said to those who objected to the Board of Trade, " What
other course would you propose ?" He did net think it was
necessary to answer that question. He thought that there was
great objection to the transfer of the business of that House to
a Government Department or Board. Another objection which
he had to the Board of Trade was, that they did not make any
reference to the locomotive system on railways, as compared
with the atmospheric system, as in the case of the Newcastle
and Berwick railway. Altogether, he thought the functions of
the Board of Trade were most objectionable.
Mr. BECKETT DENISON said he had been averse to
taking any part in this discussion, simply because the London
and York Railway, in which he took considerable interest, had
been reported against. He would, therefore, reserve much of
what he had to say until after the Committee on the Bill had
completed its labours. He had the most perfect confidence that
the Committee would do justice to all parties, and if that
Committee should come to the same conclusion as the Board of
Trade he would be one of the first to bow to that decision. His
Hon. Friend the Member for Finsbury had made a pointed
allusion to a conversation which his Hon. Friend the Member
for Finsbury had had with him (Mr. Dennison). He cer-
tainly had said that he was in a condition to prove that four
days before the Gazette came out respecting the London and
York Railway, it was very generally circulated in the City,
and letters went into the country conveying the intelligence
that the London and York Railway would be reported against,
that the Cambridge and Lincoln would be reported of favour-
ably, and t at the Direct Northern would also partially
be reported in favour of. When this was mentioned to him
he said the latter part of the story was a most
extraordinary one ; that the Direct Northern, which professed
to be seven miles shorter than the London and York line, should
he cut off at Lincoln. Why did that company make such an
arrangement if they had not previously known what was to be
the decision of the Board of Trade? It was quite clear that
they had some foreknowle,lge of the fact. He was quite ready
to prove what he had stated to his Hon. Friend. He was
ready to produce persons at that bar who would state that they
were in possession of this knowledge on the Saturday preceding
the Gazette which announced the decision of the Board..

He could easily understand this, because by going to the
Board of Trade, and putting questions, the answers
to them might give a hint as to the coming decision.
He had been in communication repeatedly with the officers of
the Board of Trade, and he could safely state that he never
went further than to lodge a statement with them, and he
considered it to be his duty never to ask a single question re-
specting either the London and York Railway, or any other
railway which the Board might have under their considera-
tion. He was upon the Railway Committee that sat last year,
and which recommended that Railway Bills should be sent to
the Board of Trade. His Right Hon. Friend the President of
the Board of Trade had stated meet accurately that
it never was the intention of that Committee that
the Board of Trade should rule the decision of that House.
He believed, however, that the Board of Trade had far ex-

ceeded the duty which bad been intrusted to them. He could
prove that the report respecting the London and York Railway
was inconsistent with itself, as there were contradictions in
various parts of it. He therefore said that it would have been
much better if the Board had confined itself to considering the
written statements which had been sent in to them by the pro-
moters of the different lines. He believed that conversations
had been held with the Board of Trade, by which a
knowledge could be obtained respecting the decision that
was about to be made. He thought that the Gazette, which
contained the decisions of the Board of Trade, for or against
a railway, ought to be accompanied simultaneously with the
report of the reasons for their decision. After the report ap-
peared in the Gazette, it was customary for parties who had
been reported against to make representations to the Board, to
induce them to make some alteration in their reasons for
coming to the decision which had been announced in the
Gazette. He said that it was not fair or just. The report of
the Board had in many instances been compiled from state-
ments which had been submitted by the favoured or success-
ful parties. He had been in conversation with a gentleman
with respect to one of these reports, and upon his doubting its
a,curacy the gentleman replied, " Oh, do not doubt it, for I
drew it up myself."—(Laughter. ) The Board of Trade there-
fore were compelled to become the advocates for or
against a railway. Now vvith respect to the fu-
ture proceedirgs of this Bill he should take the
liberty of suggesting a mode by which a great deal of dissatis-
faction which existed with respect to the Board of Trade, might
in future be prevented. He thought the Board of Trade might
perform the duty of the Classification Committee, and refer in
groups, to the Committees of that House, the various railways
that came before them. lie believed that if their functions
were confined to this they would give satisfaction, but this not
being the case, his conviction was that the reports, as they were
at present drawn up, would, in many instances. pur,ale the
Members sitting on a Committee, and render them no assist-
ance whatever.
Sir G. ST RICK L AND said he believed that the Committees
of that House, to whom the management of Railway Bills was
referred, had done their best to lay down rules by which an in-
justice might net be done immediately. He was sorry, how-
ever, to think that both landed proprietors and speculators in
railways had received great injustice by means of the legi.-
lation of that House. The effect of the reports of the Board
of Trade, instead of lessening that injustice, had greatly aggra-
vated it ; and be trusted the House would, before they sepa-
rated, re-con,ider their rules and regulations, with a view

to their revision. The Board of Trade had lost sight
of the public interest in their decisions.—( Hear, hear. )
The Railway Board had favoured small schemes, which cut up
the country without showing any regard for the interests of the
landed proprietors, and which would never pay any profits.
He would support the amendment of his Hon. Friend below
him, and he hoped that after this session the reports of the
Board of Trade would be entirely put an end to, or that it
would be differently constituted.
Mr. G. BANKES said that he had come to the conclusion
respecting the Board of Trade which the Hon. Gentleman who
had just sot down had come to. The reports of the Board of
Trade had favoured the large companies who possessed so much
influence, and those persons who felt themselves injured by
their proceedings could not obtain attention to their com-
plaints. He thought the Board of Trade had greatly
exceeded the powers which it was the intention
of Parliament to give them. lie lately saw a re-
port of the Great Western Company, in which they stated
that the Board of Trade sanctioned an agreement between their
company and another company; but he bad never thought that
that. Howe had constituted that Board a board of reference. It
was evident that they were assuming to themselves a regular
and permanent authority. He begged leave to call the atten-
tion of the House to one care of considerable hardship which
had been already brought forward in another place. It was
the case of a lady of rank and fortune, hut, unfortunately for
her, she was opposed to a powerful company, who had said
that they could command 100 votes in that House. She re-
monktrated against a railroad passing within 100 yards of her
mansion, and expressed her dislike at it; but the day after the
agent or surveyor of the company called on one of her tenants,
and en his declaring that he would be guided by this lady,
this agent or surveyor induced him to sign a paper, giving
his consent, on the representation that this lady had assented
to the railway, which was contrary to the fact.—( Hear, bear.)
Now, he believed there were many cases of that kind. And
in the instance he had mentioned, when a remonstrance was
made, she was told that she must get used to railways as
other persons.—(" Hear," f. om Colonel Sibthorp. ) In the
case of another person who had to deal with this very company,
when he found no other means to avail him, he took up the
surveyor under the Wilful Trespass Act, and had him fined .5/.
—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") He thought that the Board
of Trade had too much power, and he should vote for the
amendment.

Mr. COLQUHOUN said that it was rather surprising that
not a single Member had risen during that debate to bear
his testimony in favour of the Board of Trude, except,
indeed, the Vice. President of That department—( Hear)—
who, however, only ask of them to suspend their judgment rill
after the reports. He thought that there ought to be either a
preliminary inquiry into the sebject, for he had doubts whether
the Board of Trade was not unwisely constituted. He thought
it gave an impulse to dangerous and imprudent speculations
and to call on the House to say they were satisfied with the
Railway:Department of the Board:of Trade as at present consti-
tuted was unreasonable. He would vote for the amendment
which had been proposed.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE replied. He would withdraw his
own motion in favour of the amendment of his Hon. Friend
the Member for Weymouth, which was one of the resolutions
he intended t• propose himself to-morrow. He should like to
get an answer from the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir
G. Clerk) to the question which had been already put to him—
namely, what was meant by the power of supervision given to
the Board of Trade over the reportsof Committees of that House?
What right had the railway department of the Board of Trade
to send for documents to Parliamentary agents, relating to
particular lines? When they had laid their report on the
table of that House their functions had ceased, and they had
no right to further interference—they had no right he repeated
to interfere with Committee; of that House in any manner;
any such interference or supervision was an impertinent
assumption of authority, which the Legislature never
intended they should possess. Throughout the discussion
not one Member had attempted to defend the course pursued
by the Board of Trade. On the contrary, it clearly appeared
that these reports were of no more value than the paper on
which they were written. The Right Hon. Gentleman the
President of the Board of Trade ( Sir G. Clerk) had attempted
to defend them, and he could say very little for them. Great
alarm and jealousy had been excited in the public mind by these
reports, the worthlessness of which was now fully ascertained.
The business of the house had been thrown back a full month by
waiting for these reports. He felt obliged to the Hon.
Member for Weymouth for his amendment, which he would
adopt, and withdraw the original resolutiou.
Sir GEORGE CLERK said that, with respect to the super-
vision, it was recommended by the Committee of the House,
in which that department of the Board of Trade had origi-
nated. One duty of supervision was to consider the various
schemes resented;p the other to point out to the House the
introduction of any new clauses which might affect the public
interest. The communication of the Board of Trade with the
Parliamentary agent was necessary to prevent clauses of an
extraordinary nature being introduced into the Bills.
Mr. DUNCONIBE wished to know what right the Board
of Trade had to give suchdirections to Parliamentary agents?--
(Hear, hear.) If orders had to be communicated they ought
to issue from that House, and not from the Board of Trade—
(Hear, hear.) In point of fact, they had no right whatever
to issue such orders—( Hear, hear.)
The original resolution was then withdrawn, and the amend-
ment put, and carried without a division.
Mr. WARD presented two petitions, one in favour of the
Eastern Counties Railway, and another against the Eastern
Union Railway.

Mr. MAYNOOTH.
r. S. CRAWFORD said that he had given notice
that, at some future stage of the Maynooth Bill, he would
move a resolution against all State grants for Ecclesiastical
purposes ; hut he found that he could not do so at any stage f
the Bill until it was reported by the Committee, when
would do so.