The Sun.
London, England, 1842-08-10 00:00:00

WINE TRADE.

Mr. VILLIERS presented a petition from parsons
employed in the win© trade in Wolverhampton, praying
that a drawback may be allowed them.
Mr. DARBY presented a petition with a similar prayer.
Dr. BOWRING presented a petition from the brewers
of Leicester, praying that brewers' casks might not be
distrained.

Mr. WYSE gave notice that he would move early next
session for a renewal of the Committee to inquire into
the system of Scotch education ;- also, that he would
move for leave to bring in a Bill to provide for the better
regulation of Foundation Schools in Ireland.
SLAVE TRADE (PORTUGUESE VESSELS) BILL.
After a few words from Colston' PECnELL and Sir G.
CLERK this Bill went through Committee, and was or-
dered to be read a third time this day.
BANKRUPTCY LAW AMENDMENT BILL.

On the Order of the Day for bringing up the Report.
on this Bill being read,
Mr. M. PHILIPS said that he should make another
appeal to the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham) with
regard to the fiat. He considered it would be much bet-
ter if the fiats were issued from the several local Courts,
instead of being obliged to come up to London for that
purpose. It would lessen the - expense and delay of
suing.out the fiat, and was approved of by the mercan-
tile body. He should therefore move to insert the fol-
lowing clause, instead of clauses 3 and 4 :—" That it
shall not he necessary to strike a docket, or sue out or
prOsecute any fiat in bankruptcy, against any person sub-
ject to the bankrupt laws, to authorise the Court of
Bankruptcy, or any Commissioner thereof, to hear evi-
dence and proceed to adjudge any person so liable a
bankrupt ; but it shall not be lawful for such Court or
Commissioner to proceed to hear evidence, and adjudge
and declare any person liable to the bankrupt laws a
bankrupt, in the same way and manner as though a fiat
in bankruptcy had been issued against such person."
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that lie could not
consent to the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman. With
regard to the expenses of the fiat, the expenses were
regulated by a former Act, which gave the power to the
Lord Chancellor of reducing the expenses. He therefore
thought that the suggestion of the Hon. Member would
be no improvement, and would be found very difficult in
practice, and he thought the alteration would lead to
greater expenses rather than lessen them. He should
therefore oppose the clause; for, as the Hon. Member for
Worcester had properly observed, if they did away
with. the issuing of the fiat in London, and parties were
enabled to proceed at once in local courts, there would be
nothing to prevent application being made in more courts
than one at the same time against the same individual.
Mr. JERVIS thought the clause would only tend to
clog the Bill, and create greater expense.
Sir T. WILDE said the clause was of a twofold na-
ture—first, to prevent delay ; and secondly, to avoid
expense. The Commissioners were formerly paid by a
fee on each meeting of 1/. each Commissioner,
together with 11. for executing certain docu •
ments and instruments, and in the country a
further fee to a quorum, and in some cases travelling
expenses. A Bill was introduced abolishing these fees,
and placing the Commissioners in London, with a salary.
Well, it was not thought right that the
.public should
pa`• the expenses of prosecuting bankruptcies for the be-
nefit of individual creditors; therefore, it was considered
that a sum should be paid in lieu of those fees. The
question was, therefore, whether that sum was a proper
sum to be paid by persons availing themselves of the law
of bankruptcy—whether the fiat issued in London
or the country that . question would remain the
j same. With respect, therefore, to the expenses,

the Honourable Member was mistaken in supposing
that they would be at all affected by the circumstance of
the fiat issuing in London or the country. Now with
respect to that fiat, what was it ? It was merely a sup-
posed application of assent to appear before the Commis-
sioners. In other words, it was entering in certain
books the- issuing of a commission of bankruptcy against
a certain person. Well, but surely so important a pro-
ceeding as a commission of bankruptcy, which at once
stripped a man of his whole property, ought not to be
secret ; it ought to be placed upon record—some record
accessible to the whole country. Where could the entry
of that bankruptcy be made more central than in
London, which was the most accessible point in all the
country. The fiat, as it was called, was merely an entry
in a book, and he was sorry to hear the bond was to be
dispensed with, for when they considered that issuing a
commission of bankruptcy against an individual who was
not properly subject to such a proceeding might ruin
him, some precaution ought to be taken against persons
initiating such proceedings ; all such parties ought
to be required to give a bond of 2004, to prove
that the party against whom the fiat was to be
issued was a bankrupt. Now with respect to the
delay ; the delay was merely the post up and the post
down, but if in London the delay was not more
than two hours, a person might leave that House
and in two hours issue a- fiat. If it was to be
issued in the country there was only the application
to be made to the agent here. and the fiat was returned
,by post. It would be a ease of great importance indeed
in which the delay of sending to London would be of
any serious consequence. Such casesmight occur. With ,
respect to the fiat issuing in the country, this clause must
cause delay, as the person wishing. to issue afiat in bank-
ruptcy would have to send into the country to inquire if
there had been a previous fiat. It was therefore of the
utmost importance :that some public record, in
1 the most accessible place in the kingdom, should
be had, to ascertain whea proceedings in bank-
ruptcy issued. Could any place be more suited
than London ? Therefore he thought that the proposed
clause would only add to the expense and delay.
Mr. M. PHILIPS said, that after what had fallen from
the Solicitor-General and the lion. Member for Worces-
cester, he would withdraw the clause.
The clause was then withdrawn.

Mr. G. PALMER said he thought that some clause
ought to be introduced for the purpose of checking the
accounts of the official assignee.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that they had not had
the advantage of the presence of the lion. Member for
Essex during the last two days' dis.ctusien on this sub-
ject, or he would have known that a clause had been in-
troduced of the nature desired by the lion. Gentleman.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL then proposed a clause,
providing that a return should be laid before Parlia-
ment every year of the monies paid into the Bank of
England by official assignees, up to the 31st December
in each year. Also the total amount paid for and on
account of bankrupts' estates, and of the balance in hand
of such assignees.
The clause was added to the Bill by way of rider.
Mr. HAWES then proposed a clause providing that
the official assignee should supply each creditor with a
printed account of all monies received and paid by him
on account of the bankrupt, within one month after the
final dividend was declared.

Sir J. GRAHAM suggested that the clause should be
proposed on the third reading of the Bill.
The clause was therefore postponed.
A number of verbal amendments were agreed to with-
out discussion.

On the proposition of an amendment in clause 130,
which allowed the assignees to give to the clerks and
servants three months' wages on the suspension of the
bankrupt's business,
Mr. M. PHILIPS said, that the proposed allowance
was entirely inadequate to the merits and circumstances
of those persons, who were for the most part of great
respectability, and entrusted with large responsibilities,
but who found it always very difficult to pass from one
situation to another. He suggested that the allowance
should be for six months.

After a few words from Sir J. GRAHAM, which
were not heard in the gallery,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that, as by clause
19, the allowance to the common labourers was only for
two weeks' wages, he should be ashamed to allow six
months to a clerk.

The original clause, with the verbal amendments of
the Attorney-General, was then agreed to.
The other clauses were then agreed to, the. Report
was received, and the Bill was ordered to be engrossed.
. .

The Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-
morrow.

COUNTY COURTS BILL.
On the Order of the Day being read for the House
going into Committee on the County Courts Bill,
Sir J. GRAHAM said, notwithstanding his earnest
desire to proceed with this measure, he telt that after
the wishes which had been expressed on both sides of
the House, he would not be justified in pressing
it forward during the present session.--(Hear, hear.) He
must say, however, that he attached very great import-
air:e to the measure, proceeding, as he believed it did,
on the ground of the ancient county courts, improving
their construction, adding to their jurisdiction, and
securing the safe and cheap administration ofiustice. He
must also say that he attached very great importance
to that provision of the Bill which insured that
justice should circulate from Westminster Hall,
and return to Westminster Hall, as the fountain of
law. He hoped to be able, at an early period 9f the
next session of Parliament, to bring the measure
again under the attention of the House. It
was one in which the great body of the community
had the deepest interest, relating to the mode of, obtain-
ing redress for actions for debt, and it came down to
them sanctioned by the authority of the House
of Lords. Perhaps, the House would allow the
Bill to go into CoMmittee pro forma, for the purpose
of introducing certain amendments. He thought there
Would be great advantage derived from allowing the Bill
to go through CoMmittee, with a view to its being circu-
lated in the amended form during the recess.— (Hear.)
Mr. AGLIONBY was extremely glad to hear the de-
termination of the Right Hon. Baronet. He would sug-
gest that the Bill should be introduced at the earliest
period in the next session, and that it should then be re-
ferred to a Select Committee.
Mr. C. BULLER said he had on a former occasion
announced his intention to oppose the Bill. He had done
so because he believed that it was founded upon a bad
circuit system, and because there was no provision for a
court of appeal.
Sir J. GRAHAM said, that:to show the disadvantage
of discussing the Bill at that time, he would state that a
court of appeal was provided.
Mr. JEIWIS approved 01 the course that the Right

Hon. Baronet pursued with regard to the Bill, but in its
present shape it would revive some of the worst fea-
tures of the old system of the Welsh Judges. Under the
Bill a person practising as a Barrister might advise in a
case which he was afterwards ix) try as Judge, which he
thought a serious objection.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BERNAL was &so of opinion that the Right
Honourable Baronet had taken the best course, as the
Bill at present stood ; but it was to be regretted
that the measure had been brought so late
into the House of Lords, as to allow no full
consideration of their Lordships' amendments in this
House. It was, therefore, the best course to postpone the
measure till next session.
Mr. T. MU NCOMBE would ask the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet whether it was his intention to include the county of

Middlesex, with the Metropolitan districts and the 'ad-
jacent parts of Essex, in the Bill of next session, as they
were excluded from the present measure ? There were no
courts in the kingdom that so much required amendment,
or rather abolition, as the Courts of Requests of the
metropolis, and the County Court of Middlesex was a
sink of inquity, oppression, and extortion. That Court
had been in the possession of Sergeant Heath and
his Deputy for twenty-five years, and during that
long period the proceedings were marked by injustice
and oppression, as was proved in the year 'lB3B,
before a Committee up stairs. The fees, which were of
very great annual amount, were extracted from the vice
and misery of the metropolitan parts of the county,
and the Court . sent annually hundreds of wretches
to Whitecross-street. prison without shoes to their
feet, or a penny for subsistence.—(Hear, hear.)
When the Committee of 1838 wanted' to ascertain
the amount of fees, and the number of persons committed
in execution, it was found that no books were kept by
the Court.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that the Bill of
next year would include the metropolitan districts, and
abolish that sink of iniquity, extortion, and oppression.
Sir THOMAS WILDE said, that Mr. Sergeant
Heath did no more than his duty. If parties
applied to his Court for a summons, he was bound
to grant it, and if, after judgment given, defendants
refused to pay the debts, it was Mr.. Sergeant
Heath's duty, clearly the same as that of the Judges of
Wesminster Hall, to order execution to issue. The
Hon. Member ought not to make these general charges
against absent individuals at the close of a session. He
ought to bring forward some specific charge against Mr.
Sergeant Heath, if he had done anything wrong. He (Sir
T. Wilde) believed Mr. Sergeant Heath to be a most
honourable and learned MUD. He did not mean to
claim exemption for any particular Court from the effects
of this measure, but he felt bound to defend Sergeant
Heath from the attacks of his Hon. Friend.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE founded his charges on the evi-
dence given before the Select Committee which had sat
to inquire into the proceedings of the County Courts
of Middlesex. Front that evidence it appeared that
Sergeant Heath did not sit in his Court, but performed
his •
bois. From the evidence' it appeared that in that Court
office by deputy—that deputy lying a Mr. Du-
between 200 and 300 causes had been disposed of in the
course of as many minutes. How wasrgiteia)hostsuibeleattiol
haadd-
minister justice in that manner? Se
been asked certain questions relative to the purchase
of appcintments which he had declined to answer. If
that evidence were printed, the House would see the
Enthaedleion. Gentle •
g r oTuhned
Ao
rrir
T o whichß s tEhle,
.ccTseEs
ihz
Aa dLbseae
ind
man should have moved that the evidence be printed,

The SPEAKER informed the House that he had re-
ceived a petition, signed by Mr. Beard and others, against
the return of John Walter, Esq., for the borough of:Not-
tingham.
The House then adjourned at Three o'Clock till Five.
The House resumed at Five o'Clock.
SPY SYSTEM IN IRELAND.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from a
public meeting held in London, against the present spy
system employed by the Government in Ireland, praying
the House to abolish the system, and also to present an
Address to the Crown, praying that the Crown would
repeal the sentence lately passed on the three men at the
Armagh Assizes who were found guilty of Ribbonism in
that country, upon the evidence of one of those spies.
The HON. GENTLEMAN said, that understanding from.
the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland, that the
Government knew nothing of the employment of those
spies, and as it also appeared that the Magistrates said
that they knew nothing of the matter, he wished to ask
the Noble Lord who it was that had employed those spies?
Lord EI.IOT said that the person referred to (Hagan)
during the time he was out of custody on bail, was
beyond the control of the Magistrates. That individual
was certainly not employed either by the Magistrates or
by the Government.

Mr. HAWES asked if it was the intention of Govern-
ment to lay the see.ond Report of the Revenue Commis-
sioners before the House.

• Sir R. PEEL said that the parties examined before
the Commissioners had given their evidence in a free and
open manner, that was most advantageous. to the public
service but he (Sir R Peel) considered it would not be
attended with advantage to the public interest to publish
the Report.