The Sun.
London, England, 1842-05-26 00:00:00

RAILWAY TR,AVELLING.

Sir R. H. INGLIS wished to ask his Right Hon.
Friend, the Vice-President , of the Board of Trade,
whether it was the intention of the Government to
take any steps for the purpose of recommend-
ing the Directors of Railway Companies to dis-
continue the practice of locking up rail-
way carriages ? lie wished to know whether, if
any such recommendation had been made, the
Directors of Railway Companies had expressed them-
selves willing to yield to the public wish on the point,
and especially whether such a willingness was mani-
fested by one • Company which had hitherto shown
itself the most determined in adhering to the present
practice ?
r. GLADSTONE said that it was not until very
recently that the authorities at the Board of Trade had
felt it necessary to interfere upon the subject to which
his Right lion. Friend had called his attention.
There was no general rule among Railway Com-
panies in this country that the carriages should be
locked ; and it vas only since the accident which had
occurred_ in France, that a recommendation had.been
made to the Dimctors of the Great Western Railway
Company upon the matter, and that recommendation
was now under' their consideration. Ile had every
reason to believe that- there existed no disposition, on
the part of that or other Companies, to adhere to the
existing practice, and he trusted they would be ready
to defer to the w i::hes-of the public upon the subject.

Mr. DUNCOMdE said the Right Honourable
Baronet need not be under the slightest apprehension
that his Hon. Friends behind him would not support
the continuation of this heavy duty, because the real
reason why it was maintained was because it was a
sop to the agricultural interest.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. 0. GORE said, the object of maintaining the duty
was to support an industrious class of labourers, who kept
a Cow, to assist them in supporting their families. It
would be cruel to them not to maintain the prohibition.
Mr. C. BULLER said. he hoped the country would
recollect that when Hon. Members on that side of the
House proposed a relaxation of the duties, Hon. Mem-
bers opposite admitted that the present duty could not
always be upheld, and . stated that they would make a
a further reduction hereafter.—(Hear, hear.) The Go-
vernment had learned much since they were last in office.
and the longer they went on the more likely they seemed
to adopt the excellent principles of free trade. With re •
spent to this article, cheese, next to bread it was the
great necessary of the poorer classes. The Right Hon.
Gentleman said, he would consider the propriety of re
ducing more duties ; he had shown that he
had underrated the revenue fo be derived from
the Income-tax ; then lot him reduce the dutie:,
on the necessaries of life, not on timber.—(Hear, hear.;
The people did not eat that ; they were not reduced ti
that yet.—(Laughter.) The quantity of cheese importe;i
from the United States might be increased ; so that the
Right Hon. Baronet's argument, which had some force
with regard to butter, had none with regard to cheese.

COLVILLE said there was no class so meanl3
protected as the cheese farmers. Under these circum-
stances he should vote against the proposition of tht
Noble Lord opposite.
Mr. WARD said the Hon. Gentleman who had jar,,
sat down had made out an admirable case on behalf o.
the Derbyshire farmers ; but were the producers of
Derbyshire to be put in competition with the whole peo-
ple ? He thought the proposition of the Noble Lord wag
called ti,r by the circumstances of the case ; he 6elievet.
it would be of g►reat service to the working population o.
this country, and as such he should give it his support.
Dr. BOWLING said he thought the proposed plan.
with regard to foreign butter, would raise the price 2d.
per lb. Butter was an article which constituted one o:
the greatest luxuries of the people. Would not tht
Right Hon. Baronet consider the interest of the poor
consumers, who constituted the multitude, rather than
that of the producers, who were the few ? In leaving
the duty upon butter and cheeSe as heavy as it was be-
fore, a very unfavourable opinion of the tariff had been
raised throughout the country.
Lord J. RUSSELL entirely agreed with the propo-
sition of the Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland.

Mr. HUME said that at a time when the sustenance of
the people was so extremely dear, when the people wen
in a state of starvation, it appeared to him very cruel to
raise so large an amount of revenue as 400,0001. from
articles which were necessaries of life to the poor.
The Committee then divided, when the numbers were—
For the amendment

Against the amendment ll5
Majority against the amendment 56
On the item cheese being proposed,
Sir P. EGERTON said he did not think the amount
of the differential duty was sufficient, and he felt
that he spoke the sentiments of the chief producers of
the country. In fact, great alarm existed that American
cheese should be brought through the Canadas into this
market as colonial produce. If the differential duty
were made a duty of 55., the amount would be equal to
10s. 64.. and would increase it from 2s. 64._

Mr. LABOUCHERE was surprised at the course pur-.
sued by the Government with regard to cheese. The
consumer was interested in it more than he was inte-
rested in butter. He thought their conduct with regard
to cheese was clearly inconsistent, and' he thought that
the Right Hon. Baronet yielded to local influences.
Sir R. PEEL said the Goveinnient had come to this
conclusion with regard to this clause as they had to all
other articles in the tariff, without any reference to poli-
tical feelings. Whether the proposition were right or
wrong it was not made for any political or local reasons.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that he received the state-
ment of the Right Hon. Baronet with perfect confidence.
Mr. GLAI)STONE corroborated the statement of the
Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel).
After a few words from Mr. TATTON EGERTON,
Mr. M. PHILIPS said that cheese was an article of
such importance to the working classes, that he should not
think he would be doing his duty if he did not express
his opinion in favour of a reduction on cheese. There
would be a tendency to deteriorate• the taste of the public
for cheese of the best quality. He moved that instead of
maintaining the duty at 10s. 6d., it be reduced to 7s. 6d.
After a few words from Captain EGERTON,
Mr. HUME said if they expected the United States
fairly to admit our manufactures, they must not, as
they were now doing, do all in their power to keep out
theirs : on the contrary, they ought to admit them at
the lowest possible terms, and they would then admit
our manufactures in return. At the present moment
they might be watching what we were doing. The en-
deavouring to keep out American produce was the very.
worst thing we .could do.
Mr. COBDEN wished to remind the House that the
importation of cheese from America had constantly de-
creased during the last few years ; the importation from
Europe also had considerably decreased. The falling off
in the price of agricultural produce was, he thought, to
be attributed solely to the poverty of the consumers. He
was of opinion that they should give every facility to the
admission of every article that could come in from
America.
Mr. WAKLEY said no doubt the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, the First Lord of the Treasury, had laid hold of
the monster monopoly, and had given him a most ter-
rible shake ; but he was always returning to the
charge.
Last night they had him from Kent ; to-night
they had him from Cheshire. Where it was to end he
did not know. What a shame it was to hear Hon.
Members
doing all they could to keep the people from
food—what a pity it was they could not cat timber.—
(Laughter.) They said they must protect the farmer.
Protect the farmer ! Pooh ! It was not for the farmer they
oared. They were looking out to keep up their rents, and
that wa.; all they cared for.—{Hear,) He was con-
vinced that the proposed tariff would give no substantial
relief to the people. lie believed that the agriculturists,
if allowed to carry out their. views, would- plunge tho
country into confusion.
Mr. ]YARD said that if the House would not do jus-
the People would do justice to
themselves.
tice to the people,
After a few words from Mr. COLVILLE and Mr.
JERVIS,
Mr. BARING supported the reduction of the duty.
Sir R. PEEL hoped the House would be disposed to
consider the tariff as a whole, and bear in mind all its
difficulty, instead of trying to put him in a minority on
any particular item. He really thought the wisest
course would be to allow him to finish the tariff that
night.—(Great laughter.)
Sir J. GUEST moved that the duty should be reduced
to 55. instead of 7s. 6d.
Sir ROBERT PEEL would consent to the withdrawal
of the proposition for a duty of 7s. 6d., and take the divi-
sion on the proposition fur a ss. duty, so as to have but
one division.

Mr. J. JERVIS explained.
Zar. MARX PHILIPS would not withdraw his propo-

-- Mr. ESCOTT denied that the farmers of this country
were desirous of keeping up the price of potatoes. No
good farmer wished to grow more potatoes than he could
(Ise in his own establishment ; and though the Hon.
Aember for Essex had come there to illuminate the
Treasury benches, he could tell him that there were
farmers who could very considerably illuminate him upon
the subject.
Mr. BECKETT DENISON said, though he and
his colleague represented, perhaps, a larger portion of
potatoe-growing country than any two Members of that
House, he could not feel justified in voting with the Bon.
Member for Essex. He considered that the proposition
s\ as one which would tend to alleviate the burdens of
the working classes, and he should, therefore, vote with
her Majesty's Government.—(Hear.)
Mr. PALMER withdrew' his opposition, and the Hon.
Gentleman's proposition was acceded to.
A variety of other articles were agreed to without
.alteration.

The items down to that of onions, exclusive, were
agreed to.
On onions bring proposed,
Mr. HOUND said he thought this was another case
in %% inch the home grower had been roughly dealt with.
He did not think the amount of duty was 6utlicient pro-
tection. He would -say that what the growers waisted
•vas protection, but not prohibition.
After a few words from Mr. IVARD and Dr. BowEING,
Mr. GLAI)STONE said, that althoug►h the finest
onion seed was produced in Spain and Portugal, the
English grower had nothing whatever to fear from foreign
competition.
'The item was then agreed to, as were the remaining
items in the schedule of seeds.

The next schedule was that enumerating the different
kinds of woods. These were agreed to.
The schedule containing ores and minerals was then
proposed.
Sir CHARLES LEMON wished this schedule to be
postponed for a few days, as an important meeting had
been held in Cornwall, and a deputation sent to London
On the subject, which would arrive to-morrow with a
petition.
Sir R. PEEL did not think it desirable that it should
be postponed, more especially as there would be another
opportunity of making any change in the Bill.
The items to copper ore were agreed to.
On copper ore being proposed,

Mr. EJRNER moved as an amendment that the
words " containing not more than ten parts of copper
per ton of metal" be omitted. He felt convinced that
this was a measure in Which the interests of Cornwall
were deeply concerned. This mode of raising the duty
was not only injurious to the mining interests generally,
but it was highly injurious to the revenue.
Mr. GLADSTONE said that the Hon. Gentleman's
motion would affect but a very small portion of the
question. It would, in fact, only affect a class of ores
which, up to the present time, had scarcely come into
this country. The effect of the motion would be altoge-
ther trifling, but even so, it was not expedient to adopt
it. It was expedient to encourage the introduction into
this country of low ores. It was desirable that an induce-
ment should be held out to foreign countries to import
their ores into this country, in the working of which
Englishmen so much excelled. Machine making was a
manufacture peculiarly adapted to the genius of this
country, and nothing would be more beneficial to that
manufacture than the introduction of ores. _

Sir CHAS. LEMON said if they raised the duty too
high with regard to the rich ores, they would run the
risk of compelling them to go elsewhere to have the ore
smelted; but there was no danger in that respect with
regard to the poor ores. The effect of the present scale
would be to take out of their hands the power of selling
the ore.

Lord ELIOT believed that the proposition of the
Government on this subject was calculated to be most
beneficial to his constituents, and he should therefore
give it his support.
Mr. LABO COHERE rejoiced to see that it was the
determination of her Majesty's Government to put this
trade upon a more fair and equitable footing.
Mr. CHARLES BULLER would cordially support
the proposition of the Government, although he thought
it might produce some prejudicial effects on the miners
in Cornwall, for it should be remembered that private
interests ought to give way to public good.
Aiter a desultory discussion the Committee divided,
and the numbers were:—
For the amendment
Against the amendment . 153
Majority against the amendment —l5l

On the item bar iron being proposed,
Mr. HU ME said, he was much disappointed to find
that the duty on this article had not been entirely abo-
lished. He hoped the Government would reconsider this
subject;
iltr. PARKER said that he had been in that House
many years, and scarcely a year had passed but his cell
stituents had memorialised the Board of Trade fur the
repeal of this duty, but without success.
Sir R. PEEL was happyy to inform the Hon. Gentle.
man that the Board of 'Trade had couseuttd to reduce
the duty one-third.—(Laughter.)
Mr. VILLIERS thought this was one of the most un-
warranted and wanton attempts to cling to protection he
had ever seen, and he should therefore oppose it.
Mr. M. PHILIPS thought this duty should be done
away with, because he did nut think any interest was pro-
tected by it.
After a few words from Mr. FOSTER the other items
with respect to iron were agreed to.
Several other items being then agreed to,
Dr. BOWRING proposed the Chairman shoukl report
progress, and ask leave to sit again.
The question was put and negatived without a division.
Sir ROI3ERT PEEL said he would name to-morrow,
and take his chalice of being then able to proceed with
the tariff.
The Chairman then reported progress, and obtained
leave to sit again to-morrow.
The Report on the Customs Bill was then brought up
by Mr. Gite.ENE.
The other lOrders were then disposed of, and the
House adjour dat a Quarter to One o'Clock.

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