The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-06 00:00:00

the slightest degree invade the general principle.—(Bear.)
I helitve I have explained sufficiently and intelligibly the
outline of the Bill us to civil privileges. If there he arty
point upon which I have net been sufficiently clear and ex-
icit, I alt b • happy to enter into further details to supply
the dsfieieriev.
Lord NUGENT asked, if we heard him correctly, a
question relative to the rights of Roman Catholics of Eng-
land and Scotland.
AL PEEL—The English and Scotch Roman Catho•
lice will be placed !mem the same footing as the Irish, as
fat as regards supremacy and the filling up of situations
teethe pietestatit Church. I have thus, Sir, granted
Roman Catholic the prayer of his. petition, , He may
°ilvet,tOesitlemf,4 grounds; but I again say, he has tto
•fieltt tosexpeet More than any other of his Majesty's sub-
eels. The elective franchise, Sir, is a subject of that
Importance that I approach it with tie—
eesees cau-
47.'."'c"eart hear, is absolutely necessary
,Iteretiott should he tirade= it is necessary for
e Of the Moral of; the pessplef
is rivcesSar for the great's,: tweerity of this
eeess:on, as it Weuid afford additional security. ,s was introduced in 1825 to raise the qualification of
a, vote, but owing to the particular circumstances at that
!flue it was not persevered in, The friends of Ire-
!'" trete aware that it stood upon bad grounds,
and was exercised upon bad principles. It was the
instrument by which the aristocracy of Ireland exercised their influence in the country, and the freeholders were ftenzrallyi made for the purpose of
-
1.,a fie aitogether diffetetit ftom the franchise in Engiana.
the! der the franchise, as it at present existed, the influence of
andlord was paralyzed, and the priest stepped in to deprive
hint of it altogither. It is in vain for any one to look to
what bed taken place in the counties of Monaghan, Louth,
and Alayo, and to assert that we had not a right to see
that the franehiee Was not exercised in its present inegitl-
Tete tnanner.—(Loud cheers.)-1 will, in the first in-
sdia:t!e, fiCirs look at this question on grounds altogether
distinct
from religion, and apart from any connection
with the Catholic Question. I will discuss it on the
gr_ou.nd of precedent and principle, and argue in this point
Z.1,.1 cont Pew— whether the alteration I ant about to propose
whether
11ronl the expression of popiller °C
it Will ettect a great improvement in
irekd
Pack "' In the first place, as to the number of- votes in
county, In some counties in Ireland the number
.reters registered are not less than 13,000, while in
others they are 15,000, and in some even as high as
7h
'OOO- If a comparison were drawn between the
n, "%eta voting in Ireland and those voting in England,
ftdurould be found that the numbers in Ireland implied no
;s,(lllate proportion of property. I ask, Sir, the House
"". took at the numbers who have voted on a recent occa-
sion •
in Ireland, and I also ask if it can be necessary, on
cutlet of prOperty, that such numbers of vote', should exist
the purpose of an independent representation of the
?---(Hear. )—Looking at the Counties of England,
sat
h
holder election for Bedfordshire, the number of free-
h.. "Ps polled, was about 4,000. For Berkshire, the num-
it Polled, Wee 2750. For Cumberland, over 4,000.
esbe bevonshire, 6298. For Glamorganshire, 1284.
PFor Aliddlesex, 10,000 ; and for Westmoreland, 4300.
is returns, Sir, from Ireland are imperfect, but I believe
I
eorrect in saying that the number of voters in many
ttinties are from 10,000 to 18,000. I beg to call the at-
tentiont.. of the House to what has been done with regard to
ImUla franchise, and if ever there was a precedent for any •
• "sure, there is a precedent for the present in those times
in which the 40s. franchise was first introduced. I will
Only, Sir, take the preamble of the Act of the Bth of
Henry V
aand if I wanted an instance in which
; Legislature had foreseen the evils likely to accrue
from
ed in. toe numerous a franchise, it would .be afford-
thus 11 the preamble of that Act.—(lt runs
'"" Whereas the elections of Knights of Shires to
come to the Parliaments of our Lord the King in many
cmeunties of the realm of England, have now of late been
oby very great, outrageous, and excessive number of
)odlP dWelling within the same counties of the realm of
,Zgl'aud, of the which most part was of peole of small
fence and of no value—(hear, and laughter)—whereof
etieol2' otf them pretended a voice equivalent as to such elec.
Pa;ir° be made with the most worthyatcnighte and
leen, ea dwelling within the same counties." What fol
hers
it Will be seen, is peculiarly applicable :—" Whereby
rsuslaughters, riots, batteries, and divisions among the:
ef3tlemen and ether peopleof the same kind, shall very
'kelY rise and he, liefssconvenient and due remedy be
,r°rided in this beuhla)
the 15' ; our Lord the King, considering
shar.eintses, hath provided," and so on, curtailing the
e„ogling- franchise, and declaring that no man should be
taed to vote, unlees he were possessed of a freehold of
:ff„e,..anuuld value of forty shillings. The statement of the
„,—` of this measure, as related in a high. and most unsus-
r'efed authority,ise'
exceedingly apposite that I heg
perm
th Laws to read it, It is found in a Treatise on
Nathaniel
Litsys and Qin stitntion of England, written by
.iathaniel Bacon, who was Secretary and Executor of
Learned Selden. Bacon was the decided friend of
po•pular privileges, and this is the account he gis of the
cs)lb3"( ed tct
of the statute of henry VI., and the effectve it pro
read
1 upon the country. [The ight Hon. Gentleman
a long quotation from then work to which he re-
It began in ahem terms :—" Thus the number of
ectors is reduced, but the electors are more considerable
flUr before then any man of English blood promiscuously
the right to give or receive a vote, although hie rest_
Bence was over the wide world." It proceed to state that
(` the change was no less good than great," and dwelt upon
the inclination of the lower orders " not to judge of per-
sotto or times, but to be led, for the most part, by affee-
fion, rather than right understanding." In this way the
issPectability of the General Council of the nation was
Netted, and the rights of those whose estates were charge-
sto the taxee of the country, were impaired. The
44 went to shew in what way this restriction of
th
e Purchase was " beneficial to the men of England ;
thtugh, perchance, they considered it not, for it abated
11:Power of the Lords and great men," while it re.en-
-7`l the body of the people more grave and respectable,
'I
1. 'titled the spur of ambition to other incitements. The
tist advantage, noticed by the author, regarded the separa-
tu.a of the inferior clergy and the diminution of the
the monist' and friars. [This last passage was
s‘lu;LY cheered by the [louse.] Coupling this description
s consequences of the Statute with the preamble of
Nis Act which cut tailed the franchise, it seems to me that
lug can be more apposite or appropriate to the sub-
hi BThe measure I o,; pose will have the effect adverted
b.,acon ; it will raise the respectability of the voters,i
that is the sole object in view. I hope there lyf o
sistoute an independent constituency in the place
.o a
eslaitimeney dependent either on the landlord or the priest.
eq(Hearhear.) Ido not say, and I cannot contend, that
e effect will be to diminish the Roman Catholic influd-
-4; but I assert that the spiritual controul exercise
jet. the voter is illegitimate, and that it ought not to
et:lL—Much cheerio Before the House comes
te:ideeision upon this important question, I entreat that
t-efr'sovvillread the evidence taken before the House
of Lord,
as and Commons upon that subject, I hope that
ftes'teaenaleZ, Whether for or against ,the Catholics, whether
lor an Ecclesiastic, will read that evidence,
141 tint sure they must agree with me that there
fffeYer sea,
such concurrent testimony afforded of the evils
of
an Measure as there is there of the evils of the Elec-
Fi'anchiee. The Franchise in Ireland is wholly
,tererat from that of England. In England tbe Franchise
(date
for life, but still it was not advisable to accom-
the practice in Ireland to that in England,
li wonld be a teo violent and sudden alteration of
,qe law, and therefore it would be very advisable
o‘h,al'oid it. In the evidence before the House, various
tai were given as to the amount to which the elec-
i!e franchise should be raised ; some have stated that it
be raised to 20/. in order to ensure a respectable
sti'istituent, but for my own part I think that too violent
ep alteration of the law, and as there is an intermediate
%vat between 40s. and 201., I ant inclined to be satisfied
nti"l' 0/,
--(Hear.)—lt is very difficult to estimate the
11',,:":4 that would be entitled to vote under this alters-
V, but doubtless they would be very considerable.-
4ta,to be observed, that the regit tered number of freeholds
.ie's animal value of 501. or 201., would affiwd no cri-
lZe; there is no intermediate registration between free-
enn,"%,°f 201. and 40s. ; all those of 101., 121., or any
sr below 201., are treated as 40s. freeholds ; hence we
f euot to conclude, that all who are registered as 4015.
tZeholders are sa in fact, for they may be freeholders to
:keel-tent of 101., 151., or any intermediate sum below
4444 I Should propose, in the first place, that the deter-
-41, tiOn
of the freehold should not, as at present, rest only
tioC,the oath of the party. Nothing can be so objet-
'' et, a°le as that system of law in Ireland, which leaves
'itittotYts,hine to the oath of individuals ; it has introduced
. `f et country, I am.afraid, a great deal-cif- lax swear-
if it do not merit the terms fraud and perjury. Any
..tottri,PaY go before two tae nd rgister his vote
letti,l upon the responsibility of his oath, however igno-
's een", may be of the nature of the sacred obligation. The
trtt'istruction of the law, too, is this—not that the man's
"ranl`l is worth 40s. a year, but that he would rather
• fteo,""u in it than accept 40a. a year; thus numbers of
„ Ids
where the interest is un-
alit,ti are constantly made
414...:54131y less than 40s. a year. A mats who holdsf.
ttke,--e, a term of years has certainly no power o
thtitZt freeholds, hot numberless freeholds are never-
"fated and sworn to, without the slightest pos-