The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-27 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY MORNING, FEBRUAR Y 27 1845.

sugar. The paper makers, the soap makers, conti lbw eel
largely to swell the income-tax, and they naturally
askd why they were to be exempted from having
their share in the benefit to be derived frim
a surplus revenue. The answer was, Brazil 'maintains
the slave trade. He (Mr. Macaulay) said that in the
United States the slave trade was more odious and de-
moralising than the traffic which was going on between
Africa and Brazil. In America there were two classes
of slavery. There were the breeding States, where
human beings were reared up and supported until they
were able to bear the fatigues of labour. Then there
were the sugar and cotton States, where the slave was
sent to end his days in toil. In the census of 1830 and
1840 they would see the fluctuation of human beings
which took place in these two descriptions of States. In
North Carolina and Virginia they would find an enor-
mous increase in the number of human beings. What
became of them ? If they looked to another par tof
the census they a ould ascertain. In Louisiana and
Alabama they would find a proportionate decrease
in the same period. Now, any Englishman who
had travelled in the United States must be aware
of the humid state of the climate of the places
he had just named. Was any description of slavery more
horrifying than the traffic which was carried on between
Africa and the Brazils, where they saw human beings
driven, in bands of three and four hundred, from one
State to another, in the same vs ay that the': drove oxen
in this country to Smithfield. God forbid that heshould
say one word in c x:enuation of any form of slavery, but
this, he must say, was more horrible than the other.
How a Christian could brit g up 500 or 600 human
beings till the age of maturity, and then send them to
labour, which generally terminates their existence in fi,e
or six years, was to him most surprising. There was
something in it that surpassed the same trade on the
coast of Africa. Brazil had given them the power to
exercise the right of search, but the Republic
of the United States stood out against the right
and threw every obstacle in the way to prevent a sup-
pression of the slave trade. The United States, re-
fusing to submit to this right, had virtually taken it
away; but not content with refusing to submit to the
right, they held themselves out to other countries as the
fosterers and apostles of slavery. Could they wonder,
then, that any nation entertaining notions of national
freedom and national pride, should say, " We do not
know why ate should submit—other persons have re-
fused to do so, and why should we do so?" It was
all vet y well for Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite to talk
about maintaining the right of search, but under their
present system it was impossible they could carry it out.
They would even have Spain asking to be released.
The reason the right of search could not be maintained
was in ccmsequence of the conduct of the United States
of America, and for the slave trade going on between
Congo and Brazil, the United States were more answer-
able than any other power. America seemed to glory in
being the evil genius of this traffic, and they openly
avowed their determination to encourage this state of so-
ciety. He thought he had made out a case that the re-
public of the United States had acted, and were acting,
in a manner most culpable, and to them ought to
ascribed the evil arising out of the African slave trade.
On those grounds. then, he would say he thought he had
made out clearly this fact, that of all the countries in
which the slave trade was carried on, the United States
stood alone as most determined to resist the right of
search, and as preser ting every manner of facility for the
continuance of the slave trade to a much greater extent
than that between Brazil and the Coast of Africa.—
(Hear, hear.) But was it because the United States
had this facility in the slave trade that they would treat
slaves more leniently ? or was it to be supposed that this
was a reason why those jobbers in black flesh would not
become more numerous than ever r—(Hear, hear )
It had been said that this right of search would be a
great boon, and one which all who detested the slave trade
should applaud ; but he would confess be was utterly at a
loss to understand how the Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite could reconcile it with his conscience to encou-
rage slavery in one part of the world, and lend his aid
to a partial suppression of it in another, and he would in-
deed be very curious to learn how he could do so.—
(Hear, hear.) There certainly was something like a
want of consistency here, for while in the Budget it was
stated that the object which,above all others, the Govern-
ment were anxious to effect, namely, the suppression of
the slave trade—they in the same breath said, that
under existing circumstances they could not interfere
with that trade in the United States.—(Hear, hear.)
It would be rather precipitate in him (Mr. Macaulay)
to have anticipated such a course by the Right lion.
Gentleman ; but as he had adopted it he (Mr. Macau-
lay) felt bound to state his reasons for the vote he should
give in favour of his Noble Friend's motion.—(Hear,
hear.) In the abstract he fully admitted and recognised
the power and authority that moral obligation ought to
exercise; and if an opportunity offered for doing a bene-
volent and kind act, to neglect that opportunity would
be highly blameable. There were some in the com-
munity who would attempt to justify such a course ;
but at the same time people were not bound
to look after the affairs of others to the
prejudice of the interests of their own families. If they
did act in this manner they would producs more misery
than happiness where they intended the latter—(Hear,
hear)—and therefore he would conter d for it, on the
same principle, that a Prime Minister should not injure
the interests of his own country in order to benefit
those of others. He would then say to the Right Ilon.
Baronet, it would be better to attempt the amelioration
or removal; of a grievance that affected the interests of
this country, than to attempt to deal with that which
did not. He would 11,1 s Hon. Gentlemen to look at the
factory system, and he would ask, would it not be ab-
surd for the Prime Minister to propose that he should
undertake to supply a measure for the emanci-
pation of the serfs of Russia, and call upon the Emperor
of that vast country to undertake the correction of the
English factory abuses?—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)
Now in taking this view of the subject, he begged to
assure the House he did not mean to deal in diffuse
argument or sophistry; on the contrary, he conceived
that this was a common sense view of the question, and
he had adopted it in order to vindicate his principles
and state his reasons for the vote he should give.—
(Hear, hear.) When he first came into Parliament he
found the slave trade going on in unmitigated force, and
he gave every aid in his power to bring about its sup-
pression ; and the Right Hon. Baronet the Home
Secretary, knew very well that he (Mr. Macaulay)
resigned his office into the hands of Earl
Spencer when he felt himself bound to differ
from him on the slave apprenticeship project ; and that,
too, at a time when office was as much acceptable to him
as it could be to any man.—(Hear. hear.) His resigna-
tion was not accepted ; but in the meantime the slave
trade had been very much mitigated, and lie was happy
to be able to say he lent his aid to removing the stigma
from England that the continuation of that traffic in
human flesh placed upon it. He now came to the ques-
tion of the slave trade in Louisiana, and his opinion was
that it did stand in the same position as those of the
West Indies ; for the former were obliged to work from
sunrise to sunset for the commonest necessaries of life.
They, too, had a right to be relieved, for all nations
were entitled to enjoy a state of comparative
freedom ; and he would be as anxious to lend his aid
for the amelioration of those grievances which Ireland
had to complain of, as for those of the slaves ; but at
the same time he should confess, that when he took up
a New York paper, and read the Speech of the Presi-
dent's son against the Government of this country, he
felt half inclined to retrace his steps.—(Hear, hear, and
a laugh.) The next point of the Right lion. Baronet's
policy upon this question, to which he would call atten-
tion, was in reference to the refining of sugar. But
here he would take the liberty of endeavouring to illus-
trate the course of the Right Hon. Baronet, by relating
an anecdote which he had read in a Spanish novel, called
Gil Blas." There was a character in that that put him
forcibly in mind of the Right Hon. Baronet's public
course. The character was an old silversmith, who
affected great piety, and the most scrupulous and austere
observance of all the forms of his religion. He went to
mass every morning, and never missed a day, while he was
remarked as being continually counting over his beads.
—(Laughter.) This old man made it a habit to tell his
apprentice that of all human crimes there was not one
of which he had so great a horror as the robbery of a
church, and that no inducement could be sufficiently
strong to make him become a purchaser of any articles
stolen from a church.—(Hear, and laughter.) In a
very few days after having indulged in one of those
sermons to his apprentice, a very suspicious, ill-looking
fellow came into the shop and offered a silver crucifix
and other articles of church plate fur sale. The silver-
smith recoiled with horror, and said he would not buy
them. " Not buy them," said the man, " Well, then,
will you melt them down for me?" " Oh, that is quite
another thing," said the old man—(Great laughter)—so
lie took the precious relics between the points of a tongs
and melted them down; and then,turning to his apprentice,
he asked him did he not observe how carefully he had
avoided touching the relics—(Renewed laughter.) Now,
he contended, that this was precisely the conduct of the
Right Hon. Baronet, in reference to the slave-trade ;
and he would contend for it that nothing could have a
more immoral tendency than such quibbling with so
vital a question.—(Hear.) He would ask, why seem to
admire the doctrines of Mr. Fowel Buxton, or Dr.
Lushington, and not practice them ? He did not mean
to accuse the Right Hon. Baronet of hypocrisy, but he
would say, he could not but regret the influence his
course would have on the public mind,—(Hear, hear.)
When he remembered the strnggle that had been made
in that house for the emancipation of the slaves, he was
indeed astonished how any of the Hon. Members oppo-
site could lend the weight of their influence and abilities
to favour the present system.—(Hear, hear.) When the
Bill was brought in for the emancipation of the slaves,
the Right Hon. Baronet said he could not take any part
in it, and begged to be absolved from any
share in the responsibility of it. And in the year 1833,
the late Vice-President of the Board of Trade said that
the reason such a cry had been raised about the differ-
ence between the amount of labour necessary for pro-
ducing coffee and tobacco, as compared to that of sugar,
arose from the peculiar properties of the different soils,
and contended that the grinding labour in this country
was much worse.

Mr. GLAI)STONE was understood to deny that he
ever had said any such thing.
Mr. MACAULAY—He could refer the Hon. Member
to the report of his speech, and he would find he had
quoted him correctly. But, speaking of the horrors of
the slave trade, he could not help expressing his surprise
at observing the manner in which Hen. Members oppo-
site moved from side to side, instead of sticking to the
West India question.—(Hear, hear.) Having now stated
his reasons for the vote he should give, he would con-
clude by declaring it would surprise him much if Hon.
Gentlemen opposite could reconcile their conduct with
their professions.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. GLADSTONE said that the Right Hon Gentle.
man had brought a .evere charge against him—namely,
that he had used conflicting arguments at one time or
another, as they might happen to promote the West
Indian interest. During the whole of these discussions
he (Mr. Gladstone) had never, to his knowledge, said

one t,ord upon the ',attire of tl e sugar cultivation.
being in itself destructive of life. In the year 1833 there
was an extremely exaggerated notion abroad on this
subject. He had stated so then, and he believed so still;
but in all the speeches with which he had troubled the
House in the discussions within the last four years, he
had never said a single syllable as to the effect upon
human life of the sugar cultivation of Brazil and Cuba.
He therefore begged to observe that the exceedingly
severe charge which the Eight Hon. Gentleman had
made was totally groundless and incapable of being sub-
stantiated.
Sir J. GRAHAM, in rising to address the House,
disclaimed any desire of placing himself in competition
with the Right Honourable Gentleman who had
just sat down. It would be disadvantageous for
almost any Gentleman in that House to t follow a
speech so able and so brilliant as that which had
just been delivered by the Right Hon. Gentleman.—
(Cheers.) And he could assure the House that it was
from a sense of duty alone that he rose to address them
on the present occasion. He felt more particularly im-
pelled to do so by the personal appeal which the Right
Hon. Gentleman had made to him. That appeal re-
lat. d to a circumstance which redounded to the honour
of that Right Hon. Gentleman, and he (Sir James Gra-
ham) willingly- bore his testimony as to the strict accu-
racy of the statement which he had made. It referred to
the period when that gr. at question of emancipatio❑
of slaves in our West India colonies was under
discussion, during the administration of Earl Grey, of
which he (Sir James Graham) was a member, a hen the
question respecting apprenticeship arose, and the Right
Hon. Genth man, then ho7ding a place in the Govern-
ment of Earl Grey, differed in opinion from the executive
Government on a material point, affecting, as he thought,
the interests of the slave, and he was anxious, by his
vote, to support a particular arrangement for the ad-
vancement of that interest. The Right Hon. Gentleman
on that occasion, r. garilless of all personal interests, and
from a sense of duty, did place at the disposal of the Go-
vernment the office which he then held, in order that he
might support that principle to which lie was attached.
He (Sir James Graham) had taken a part in public af-
fairs with reference to slavery and the slave trade, as
he believed a consistent one. He was a member of
the administration in which the Right Hon. Gentleman
retired. He was a colleague, and an intimate colleague,
of his Noble Friend the present Secretary for the Colonies,
whose duty it was to bring forward that particular mea-
sure ; and to the best of his belief, he had given that
measure his cordial and sincere support, and ever since
he had had a seat in Parliament, he did not think he had
omitted an opportunity of recording his vote
in favour of the emancipation of the slaves,
To the best of his belief he had given his uniform and
constant support to the measures of emancipation, which,
in his judgment, he thought conducive to the interests
of the black population of our colonies. He must be
permitted to observe on the able speech which they had
just heard, that, brilliant as that speech was, connected
with one portion of the subject then under discussion,
yet he could not regard it as taking a comprehensive
view of the nature of the subject then under discussion.
The Right Hon. Gentleman commenced his speech by
observing that he would not deal with this as a commer-
cial or a financial question, that he would rather treat it
as a subject touching upon political morality. Now he
(Sir J. Graham) thought that such a great question as
that under discussion could not be considered in
such a light, for this question could not rightly he
regarded abstractedly as a question purely of political
morality, discarding financial and commercial conside-
rations. On the contrary, he was bound to treat this
question as one involving not only a question of political
morality, but also a question of finance and commerce
of the highest moment. The Right Hon. Gentleman
said that when he considered this question of slavery,
he took a very different view of it. With respect to the
slavery of the West Indies, in regard to political mo-
rality, and that of the slaves in the territories of other
countries not immediately connected with our domestic
legislature, it was not for him (Sir J. Graham), occupy-
ing the station which he did, to follow the Right Hon.
Gentleman into a discussion on the social institutions
of a great country with which her Majesty entertained
amicable relations. At the same time, from mauy of
the private feelings entertained on this subject—he was
bound to say individually—that he could not express,
with honesty, any great difference of opinion. He was
bound to say, as a Minister of the Crown, that this ques-
tion must be looked on as a question of finance and com-
merce. He thought an abundant supply of sugar might
be obtained at a lower price, with very great advantage
to the consumer, by a reduction in the duty on sugar
imported from the British colonies and British posses-
sions.—(Hear, bear.) He could not altogether dis-
card from his consideration the present position
of the West India colonies. He thought the Noble Lord
who had opened this discuscion did discard that con-
sideration. Although the West India planters had been
compensated by a liberal pecuniary grant, yet the means
by which their property was cultivated was almost de-
stroyed. Considerations of humanity had induced them
to impose restrictions on their obtaining free-labour as a
substitute for slave-labour. Under these circumstances,
he conceived that it was the duty of the British Govern-
ment to supply the British consumers from that market.
He could not discard from his consideration the fact,
that in the East there was a population of 100 millions,
who were ready to consume our manufactures to an
almost unlimited extent. But they had not the
means of paying with their produce, and making
remittances. It should be remembered that there were
places under this Government whose native manufac-
tures had been entirely destroyed. They had a soil
peculiarly well adapted to the growth fof sugar.
An Honourable East India Director (Mr. Hogg),
had said that the valley of the Ganges, pro-
perly cultivated, was capable of producing a
sufficient supply of sugar for the whole of Europe, in-
dependent of all other sources. Now under these cir-
cumstances, the question was not one purely of a moral,
but of a mixed consideration—of commerce and finance.
Would the House permit him shortly to address them
upon what had been urged with respect to the dis-
tinction between free-labour and slave-grown sugar?
The Hon. Member for Dumfries was the first in that
House to trace that distinction. In 1840 the ques-
tion was first raised by that Hon. Member. On that
occasion the Honourable Member said that it was
his wish to propose that the reduction of the duty should
be made in favour of free-labour sugar, only—that he
was anxious to confine the benefit of the reduction to the
manufacture of sugar not made by slaves. On that oc-
casion the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Taunton resisted the motion of the Hon. Member for
Dumfries. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Taunton, and the Noble:Lord and his colleagues opposed
that motion. On that occasion, the Hon Member for Sheffield
(Mr. Ward) presented a petition from Sheffield, praying
that sugar, the produce of free labour, should be ad-
mitted under such advantages as to exclude all sugar the
produce of slave labour. The Hon. Member fur
Sheffield, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member
for Taunton, expressed the opinion that this petition
was indicative of the feelings of the people of this
country. In the debate which took place on that occa-
sion reference was made to cotton and tobacco, which
wt re the products of slave labour, being admitted into
the British market. How did the Right Hon. Gentle-
man the Member for Taunton meet that case ? Why,
exactly as they (the Government) did now. In the
first place, the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Taunton contended that cotton and tobacco did not enter
into competition with similar articles raised by free
labour in our own colonies.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
He thought, if he was not mistaken, that the expres-
sion of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Taunton was, that he was not prepared to open a flood-
gate to the supply of sugar which would inundate the
British market, if the proposition of the Hon. Member
for Dumfries were carried. What was the language
used by Dr. Lushington on that occasion? He said
that the admission of slave-labour sugar was, in his
opinion, an abandonment of the whole of their anti-
slavery policy, and that if it was their object to main-
tain that policy, it would be impossible to admit foreign
free-labour and foreign slave-labour sugar on the same
terms. That was not only the opinion of Sir S. Lush-
ington, but of many other persons who were distin-
guished advocates of the Emancipation Act, and who
admitted that the measure proposed, if carried,
would be a departure from the established policy
with regard to the slave trade, :and that it would
be a national disgrace, for the sake of a paltry gain, to
depart from a policy to which the faith of the nation was
pledged. He had voted on that occasion with the ma-
jority. He had, in 1841, adhered to the same course
which he adopted in 1831, and from that line of policy
he had not receded. The Noble Lord who brought for-
ward the present proposition had made one or two ad-
missions in the course of his speech, which seemed to him
(Sir J. G raham) to be almost conclusive with regard to the
vote to which he hoped the House would arrive that night.
He admitted that the West Indian proprietors were entitled
to some protection, and that that must be given in the shape
of a discriminating duty of Bs. or 103. He( Sir J. Graham)
would not follow .his Right Hon. Friend the Member fur
Newark into the calculations he made with regard to the effect
this would have upon the revenue. He believed that that
could not be effected without considerable loss to the re-
venue. It was not contended by her Majesty's Government
that it was possible to give a protective duty to the colonies
( which they did not mean to deny was their object) without
some loss to the revenue. But it was enough that the Go-
vernment had benefited the consumer by reducing the price of
sugar by Id. or 11/2d. per lb. Nothing was so easy as to say,
when you enunciate some general principle, that those who did
yet at once put it into practice were dishonest, but, on the other
hand, those who would do so without considering all the bearings
of such a course might be called absurd. Nothing was so dan-
gerous, when one was dealing with a great question, as to con-
sider it without reference to the circumstances which might
surround it. He was of opinion that the measure brought for-
ward by her Majesty's Government would effect great objects,
would give to the British consumer a considerable reduction in
the price of sugar, which was an article of first necessity. Com-
bined with that reduction of price it would give to the British
colonist great relief from the difficulties of his position. It
would give great encouragement in the East Indies to the
growth of that particular product for which the soil was best
suited, and all this would be effected without stimulating the
slave trade, against which the faith and honour of the country
was pledged. He thought it would be a difficult matter to re-
concile their professions of desiring to put down the slave trade if
they opened the British markets to the consumption of slave-la-
bour sugar. To make no distinctionbetween free-labour and slave-
labour sugar, would be to give a great stimulus to the slave-
trade. And to make such a distinction would in his opinion
be a great discouragement to it. Any such result fostered by
the Legislature, sanctioned last year by a large majority,
would be consistent with the course they had heretofore pur-
sued, and to which the faith of Parliament was plighted. He
had, therefore, no apprehension that a measure which lowered
the price of sugar to the consumer, without departing from the
anti-slave trade policy hitherto adopted. would not receive the
sanction of the British community, and he could not hesitate
to give the present motion his most decided opposition.
Mr. C. WOOD said he did not feel surprised that the Right
Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, had not at all adverted
to the brilliant speech of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Macau-
lay.) He did not attempt any reply to a speech, one the most
brilliant in language and most unanswerable in argument
which he had ever heard.—( Hear, hear.) The complaint of
the Right Hon. Baronet was, that his Right Hon, Friend bad

only dealt with the political and mural view of the
question, omitting altogether any notice of _ the com-
mercial and financial view of it. But it was admitted,
that in tint view of it the Government were out of court.—
( Hear, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend took the political and
moral view of it because the financial and commercial one was
entirely given up.—( Hear, hear.) And his Right Hon.
Friend had not left the Government a leg to stand on, as far
as the we ral aspect of the question went ; and the Right Hon.
Baronet must have felt this strongly, for h did not even attempt
a reply. In answer to the argument of his Noble Friend, that
the Government measure would encourage slave.grown, sugar,
bemuse the free-grown sugar, which now supplied the markets
of the world, would be attracted to this country, and its place
would be supplied with slave-grown sugar, the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Member fir Newark said that the whole quan-
tity of free-labour sugar would not be supplied by slave-labour
sugar, though he admitted the measure had that tendency.
Now he (Mr. Wood) thought that was mere quibbling.—
(Hear, hear.) How could he doubt but that the measures of
the Government would have that effect ? ( Hear, hear. )
With regard to the calculation of the Right Hon Baronet (Sir
R. Peel) he said that 280,000 tons of sugar would be con-
sumed in consequence of the reduction of id. or lid. per lb.
Admitting that his calculation was right, it would not give
a large consumption, after all, for it would only be 201 b. per
head in a mutation of 28,000,000 rople. That amount was
consumed in 1831. There was aothing extravagant, there-
fore, in the calculation, supposing the price was lowered.
But would the price be brought down ? Ile did
not think that there would be any reduction of price
equal to the amount which the Government reckoned upon.
He considered that there would be no adequate benefit given to
the commercial interest by the course that was to be pursued.
It was almost impossible to say to what particular species of
sugar the duty would apply. He believed that there was the
greatest difficulty in discovering the difference between white
and cloyed sugar. Three •fourtha of the description of sugar
upon which the Right Hon. Gentleman relied for procuring
duty was sugar of the higher price. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man had almost relieved him from the necessity of saying any-
thing on this subject. by stati,
that the supply from colonial
sources would be larger than he had calculated. Of course,
in tint case, a less amount of foreign sugar would come in, arid
thus the loss to the revenue would also be greater than
had been anticipated. He believed that, in spite of the course
now pursued by the Government, they would in the end deal
with sugar exactly as they had done with coffee. After re-
sistingtt hh ee my
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to the
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ouene,
the same course with respect to sugar. Notwithstanding all
that was said on the subject of slavery, the question, stripped
of appearances, resolved itself into this—whether a heavy tax
should be imposed on the people of this country, for the bene-
fit of the West India colonies? He thought the Government
were to blame for not seizing the opportunity now afforded to
them of admitting all foreign sugar. They would, in his opinion,
have acted with more wisdom had they pursued that course:
He did not believe that the benefit to the consumer mentioned
by the Hon. Alember for Newark would be adequate to the
loss he would feel from the differential duty. He was sorry,
also, to hear that the income-tax was clearly settled onthcm for
three years, and that there was no indistinct prospect of their
having it imposed on them for a st:11 longer period.
Sir R. PEEL said, one complaint that had been made by
the Noble Lord opposite was certainly unreasonable and unjust.
The Noble Lord said that the Government had not, on this
occasion, entered into any detailed explanation of their reso-
lutions respecting the sugar duties. Why, the wish
of the Government was to have an opportunity of
entering upon that detailed explanation.—( Hear, hear.)
They had that day given notice for moving the Committee of
Ways and Means. His Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor
of the Exchequer was particularly anxious that the Govern-
ment should have an opportunity, in that Committee of Ways
and Means, of supplying that explanation which he ( Sir R.
Peel), in the general statement he had made, had omitted to
give. His Right Hon. Friend was interrupted in that inten-
tion by the Noble Lord bringing forward a motion, perfectly
fairly he admitted, but which at any rate prevented his Right
Hon. Friend from of availing himself the opportunity he
sought. The Noble Lord, in bringing forward his motion,
raised quite a different issue from that which would be raised in
the discussion of the details of the resolutions of the Govern-
ment ; and the Noble Lord contended that before
they entered into the Committee of Ways and Means, before
they discussed the resolutions of the Government in detail, they
should join in a discussion of that question, which had been
more than once discussed, namely, whether or not it was poli-
tic to exclude 'slave-labour sugar from competition with the
produce of their own colonies. The Noble Lord avoided en-
tering on all the details of the subject, confining himself parti-
cularly to the subject—a great and important subject—to
which his own motion referred. He said nothing about the
establishment of a discriminating duty on sugar, he said
nothing of the details of the resolution; he (Sir R. Peel)
thought that the Noble Lord invited them to enter into the
great question whether or not there ought to be any discrimi-
nating duty on sugar the produce of slave labour. They had
followed his example, and endeavoured to imitate him. He
thought, therefore, that with respect to the complaint of the
Noble Lord that the Government had not given a detailed
statement of their intentions, that complaint was quite
without foundation.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord had referred
them to the income-tax. Now, he ( Sir R. Peel) was cer-
tainly surprised at observing that while the Noble Lord con-
stantly attacked the income-tax, and denounced the policy of
continuing it, he yet expressed ;his determination to vote in
favour of it.—( Cheers and laughter.) Why, if Hon. Gentle-
men opposite disliked and disapproved of the income-tax, why
did not they vote against it ?—(Cheers.) If it was such an
inquisitorial and oppressive tax, why did they concur with
him (Sir R. Peel) in the propocal for continuing it for a
longer .—( period • 2 Cheers. ) And observe, it was stated that
the Government gave no sufficient guarantee that the income-
tax would cease at the end of three years. They said themselves
that they saw every probability of its continuance beyond that
period. Why, how could they reconcile this declaration with
their vehement objections to that tax—( Hear, hear)—while
they were so passively content to go on with him in its fa-
vour?—( Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman opposite said that
he (Sir E. Peel) had convinced him that there would not ac-
tually be a su. plus—nay, that at the end of two years frem the
present time there would be a small deficiency, and therefore
he voted for the income-tax ' • he voted for it to supply that de-
ficiency. But the Honr Gentleman contemplated rally a
small deficiency of some 500,0001. or 600,0001., and if it was no
more than that amount, surely their financial.ingenuity might
supply that without recourse to the income-tax. Why, he
(Sir Robert Peel) asked him to vote for a tax producing
5,200,000/ a-year ! and yet the Honourable Gentleman
said he was content to continue the present tax.—( Hear,
hear.) He said that at the end of one or two years there
would be a small deficiency—and, therefore, the Hon. Gen-
tleman came to the conclusion, not that a small tax producing
some 500,0001. or 600,0001. should be imposed, but that a
tax producing the large sum of 5,200,000/. a• year should be
continued in operation.---( Hear, hear.) And this, not for
three years only, for the Hon. Gentleman said himself that
he believed it would be imposed for six. But at the end of
three years it was very possible that the Hon. Gentleman
might be reminded elsewhere of his support of this tax, and
therefore at the beginning of 1845 he thought it prudent to
leave it on record, as it might be convenient to him at the end
of 1848, that he had in debate disapproved of this tax. The fact
was that Hon. Gentlemen opposite decidedly approved of
the proposition of her Majesty's Government.—( Cheers, and
laughter.) It was not because they saw a probability of a
small deficiency that they voted for this tax, but because they
saw that this was the proper time to try a great, and, he
would call it, a bold experiment with respect to the taxation of
the country !—(Loud cheers.) But Hon. Gentlemen opposite
said, also, that the attempt to make commercial treaties with
other countries had failed. Had he ever denied it?—( Hear,
hear.) And her Majesty's Government proposed this—that
as other countries would not enter into those treaties, at least
as far as the negotiations with respect to those treaties were
protracted for a very long time, so that the relations of com-
merce were thereby disturbed in the meantime, while in the
end the negotiations did not come to a satisfactory termination
—they proposed measures, not stipulating for any reciprocal
advantages from other countries; but believing the reductions
they proposed to make to be intrinsically good, and calculated
to promote their own interests, they were ready to make those
reductions, trusting that the efficacy of this example would ulti-
mately tell other countries. It her Alajesty's Government
had been wrong in their attempts to make these commercial
treaties, at all events it was an error into which other Govern-
ments had also fallen. Up to the present period, every
Ministry had attempted to make commercial treaties, and
if other countries w4uld enter into them, it would doubtless
secure a double advantage. It would secure the great advan-
tage of carrying on a traffic with many of those countries; it
would also be a great advantage if they induced those foreign
nations to make reductions in their duties on the produce of
this country. But the question was, should they propose a
great benefit to themselves, in the hope of, in time, prevailing
on those other countries to give them the benefit of reciprocal
treaties? The Noble Lord approved of the proposition of the
Government.—(Cheers.) Then, he also approved of the
income-tax. If he did not, would the Noble Lord ask them to

remove three millions of taxation without that tax? It was
impossible that Hon. Gentlemen opposite could, in the face of
the country, reconcile the votes they were giving, with their
speeches, under any other impression that would be favourable to
them,except that they approved in their hearts of the proposition
of her Majesty's Government.—( Cheers.) Now, he must own,
after reading the resolution of the Noble Lord, after having
listened to a great part of the speech of the Noble Lord, he
could not understand why the Noble Lord did not, the other
evening, vote for the motion of the lion. Member for Man-
chester (Mr. 111. Gibson).—( Cheers.) A great part of the
speech of the Noble Lord was occupied in showing that they
were putting money in the pockets of the West Indians, by
establishing in their favour a discriminating duty ; that that
was a great loss to the consumer in this country; that the
State did not get the whole benefit of it; that the difference
was not divided le tvveen the consumer and the producer, and
that a large share of the reduction went into the pockets of the
producers.—( Hear, hear.) Why, if he ( Sir R. Peel) had not
read the resolution of the Noble Lord, and had only listened to
a portion of his speech, he should have taken it
for granted, that the Noble Lerd was one of the
Gentlemen who would have given their cordial support
to the proposition of the Hon. Member for Manchester. The
Noble Lord appeared to be oscillating between these benches
and the benches opposite.—(Laughter and cheers ) For the
Noble Lord had made that excellent speech in faveur of the
motion of the Hon. Member for Manchester, and then said,
" on account of the position of the West Indian colonies, con-
sidering the great experiment they made respecting slavery—
considering that sufficient time had not elapsed to test that ex-
periment, he was exactly of his (Sir R. Peel's) opinion, that
the West Indies had a good right to protection." The lion.
Member for Stockport, assuming all the airs of an injured
fair one—(Laughter)—said, on a former evening, that he (Sir
Robert Peel) had jilted him.—( Great laughter.) He ( Sir
Robert Peel) felt very grateful to the Honourable Member
for the support to which he had referred as having
given him, on another occasion, on the proposition of
the Honourable Member for Bristol (Mr. Miles) when he
( Sir R. Peel) had the good fortune to vote with the Hon.
Gentleman, on the only occasion on which he had ever voted
with him in his life. The proposition of the Hon. Member
for Bristol was, that the duty on colonial sugar should be re-
duced to 205., and that there should be a discriminating duty on
sugar produced by free labour, which was not sugar of British
production. 'I hat was the proposition of the Hon. Member
for Bristol. He ( Sir R. Peel) said he thought the reduction
of duty on West India sugar to 20s. would be of very I ttle
benefit to the general consumer, and that he thought it
was infinitely better, when they made a reduction,
that it should be such a reduction as would be
felt ; arid he had held this language that unless a
discriminating duty was established as to the pro•
duce of British plantations, they should not attempt to
impose a duty on sugar the produce of free labour. If the
House would not sanction the imposition of a discriminating
duty on sugar the produce of British plantations, they ought
not on sugar the produce of free labour. He thought Hen.
Gentlemen might with justice accuse the Noble Lord of
"flirtation." The Noble Lord, at the beginning of the present
"
session, said that " protection" was the bane of agriculture."
That phrase sounded remarkably well; but if the question were
put to the Noble Noble Lord that all protection to agriculture
be removed, it would be found that the Noble Lord would
record his vote for the continuance of this bane on agriculture.
—(Laughter, and cries of " Hear, hear.") The Noble Lord
laid down the general principle that protection was the bane of
agriculture.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL made an observation which was
inaudible in the gallery.
Sir ROBERT PEEL-oh, but the Noble Lord said, at

the close of last session, that he thought agriculture was fairly
entitled to protection.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear," from
the Ministerial benches.) He said he thought so, on account
of the local charges to which agriculture was subjected, as well
as on account of the malt-tax—(Renewed cries of " Hear,
hear,")—and the Noble Lord did disturb the agricultural mind
dur ng the recess, by holding out strong expectations that he
should propose some measure for removing or diminishing the
malt-tax.—( Cheers, and cries of "Hear, hear.") His
agricultural friends—( Laughter )—were in expectation of some
proposition of this sort.—( Hear, hear.) But the Noble Lord
would content himself with voting for his proposition for re-
moving the duty on cotton, and the Noble Lord would vote
with him if the question should be introduced, notwithstanding
his previous calculations against any reduction of the malt-tax.
—(Laughter and cheers.) The Hon. Member should not say
that he ( Sir Robert Peel) had jilted him. It was the Noble
Lord who had jilted him--( Renewed laughter)—with those fine
promises ; and when the Hon. Gentleman came to the Noble
Lord, asking him to fulfil his decla-ations, the Noble Lord
turned round and voted with him ( Sir Robert Peel.)—( Cries
of Hear, hear," in which Mr. Cobden and other leading
Members in the Opposition joined.) He thought it was better
not to enter into all the details of the resolution. He would
confine himself to the question whether or not it was right that
sugar, the produce of slave labour, should be admitted into
competition with sugar, the produce of free labour. He was
glad that this matter had been discussed in the tone and temper
in which it had been. It was a question involving great financial
considerations. Although they had been charged with hy-
pocrisy, he believed it was their duty as Ministers of the
Crown to bear with those imputations. Every Ho-
nourable Gentleman who had used them had disclaimed
any intention of giving offence ; but the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had certainly charged them with dissimulation in no very
courteous language. But the Right Hon. Gentleman added
that though he disliked the proposition of the Government,
nothing was further from his mind than to charge them with
hypocrisy, " Although," he said, " you have recorded a reso-
lution recognising this principle, if it were not for that resolu-
tion and a mistaken idea of consistency, I am convinced you
would have taken a different course, and one more in accord.
ance with your own convictions." In short that they, the Go-
vernment, would not have excluded slave-labour sugar from
competition with sugar the produce of free-labour. Now,
he must say, that having considered and reccossidered the
subject, even if this resolution had not existed, he should
not have been prepared to admit sugar the produce of slave
labour into competition with sugar the produce of free
labour. Notwithstanding the very able speech of the Right
Hon. Gentleman, he did not thinkit would Ise just towards our
colonies, or at all consistent with the principles which they
had avowed in the face of the world, to admit sugar, the pro-
duce of slave- labour, at the same discriminating duty into
competition with free-labour produce. First of all, concerning
the question of policy. So far as this country was concerned,
if we regarded commerce and fiaance alone, he was bound
at once to say that he could not defend this duty.—( Hear,
hear, from the Opposition.) He thought, upon mere ab-
stract reference either to finance or commercial considera-
tions, they ought not to make distinctions between
free and slave-labour sugar. But it was impossible to dis-
regard the condition of the West Indian colonies.— (Hear.)
He admitted that Parliament had behaved with great
liberality so far as individuals were concerned, and that a
great pecuniary sacrifice had been made ; but he did not
think that pecuniary sacrifice, however onerous to the people
of this country—however complete as a compensation in in-
dividual cases—arid he doubted that it was complete—but he
did not think, he repeated, that that relieved them from the
necessity of considering in what relation we were to these co-
lonies, nor would it justify them in admitting slave-grown
sugar into competition with theirs. Now, first as regarded
the slave-trade and slavery. You would tell them in that case,
to enter into competition with Brazil and Cuba, countries where
not only slavery existed, but where the slave-trade was carried
on to a great extent, and in violation of public engagements.
No doubt but after some time the colonists, with free !about,
might be ultimately able to compete with slave labour. It
might be gainful to the commerce of this country to admit
sugar, the produce of slave-labour, and to the consumer as well,
but it would so disturb the relations between this country and
foreign countries, so materially interrupt progress towards
an improved condition, and so disable the colonists from bear-
ing the burdens to which they were subjected, that he doubted
whether, ultimately, if we maintained existing colonial rela-
tions, the sacrifice we would be obliged to make for their inte-
rest would not countervail any immediate advantages from
sacrificing the produce of these colonies. The Right Hon.
Gentleman asked how it was possible for them, with any re-
gard to consistency, to make the proposition they had made,
looking at what they had done in respect to the admission of
other articles the produce of slave-labour. How was it possible
(continued the Right Hon. Gentleman) to make a proposition
regarding particular articles, the produce of slave-labour,
which they would not extend to other articles likewise the
produce of slave-labour. And he referred in particular to
articles the produce of the United States. The Right Hon.
Gentleman spoke with the greatest indignation at the state
of society there, in relation to slavery. He had not only ani-
madverted on the state of the law and usages of society there,
but adverted to the declarations made by public men and the
acts sanctioned by the constitutional organs of public opinion.
The Right Hon. Gentleman said, that if there was any country
against which the indignation of the civilised world should be
directed it was the United States of Aiuerica—that the United
States continued slavery in its most aggravated form—that
there were some States which bred slaves for the purpose of
labour—that the United States was the Power which had pre-
vented the extension of the right of search, which if universally
adopted would be effectual. '1 he Right Hon. Gentleman said
that the present state of public opinion in France would not
have existed if the United States had not resisted the
right of search. All that might be true. But the
United States had a right to continue this condition of slavery
—they had a right to refuse being parties to the right of search.
They might have been very unwise to take either one course
or the other, but being an independent Power they had a per-
fect right to use that discretion. The Right Hon. Gentleman
esid that we admitted their cotton, and why thould we exclude
their sugar? The Noble Lord did not think that it would be
wise to interfere with the proceedings in this matter of the
United States. He did not think that it would be either
right or wite to interfere with the slaves passing from one slave
State to another. He seemed, indeed, as he had said, to en-
tertain great doubts whether, by such interference, if he did in-
terfere, he would be in any way serving the interests of hu-
manity. But what, notwithstanding all this, did he
say ? He charged the Government with hypocrisy, in refusing
to admit sugar the produce of slave labour, while at the same
time, by the repeal of the duty, they had given free admission
to cotton, which was the produce of stave labour also. But
what was the cr se ? There was a material difference between
the two articles—there was a material difference between the
production of the sugar of Cuba and Brazil, and the cotton of
the United States. The labour necessary for the production
of cotton was far less than that necessary for the production of
sugar. Again, there was a material difference also in the
healthiness of the cotton plantations and the healthiness of the
sugar plantations. But he (Sir R. Peel) did not mean to rely
on that; but he did rely on this—that the two countries which
would enter into competition with the sugar of our colonial
possessions-- Cuba and Brazil—were placed under very
different circumstances from those colonies, and it was
necessary to consider this, in the imposition of the duties
on sugar. The Noble Lord had said that he recognised certain
duties which he had to fulfil to his own country and his family.
The slaves, he acknowledged, were so situated in relation to
him as to give them a claim on his humane interference. But
he said, at the same time, that he doubted whether his inter-
ference would do them any good. Now he (Sir R. Peel) did
beiieve that the importation of slave-grown sugar into this
country inflicted such an injury on the lowest and most help-
less of all human beings, and such indeed as to give them a
claim on our sympathy and interference. He said this claim
was the greater from the injury being inflicted on the most
helpless of human beings—he meant the negro population.
What was our position with respect to the slave trade?
They had put themselves into a position to interfere with
those countries which deal in slaves. We had resolved
to do all in our power to put down the slave
trade wherever it might exist.—( Hear, hear.) For
what purpose, he would ask the Noble Lord, was it, if
not for this, that this country had constituted its cruisers the ge-
neral police of the world? The Noble Lord thought that we were
unwise in this respect, and that might be, but we had used our
utmost exertions to put down the slave trade. Other countries
had engaged to co-operate with us in this great object. Many
persons say that we are unwise in having entered into this
undertaking. He did riot argue with them, he argued with
that House ; and he did say, that having entered into that
undertaking, it was their duty to carry it out. In 1837, the
Hon. Member for Oxford had said that those countries would
zealeusy co-operate with us in the suppression of the slave
trade. They had accordingly entered into treaties with Spain
and Portugal for this object, and the Governments of those
countries would do their utmost to suppress that abominable
traffic. From various circumstances, the effect of this traffie
was removed from us. We did not carry on the slave trade
ourselves, and, therefore, its horrors were not brought before us.
But he did believe that those horrors were in no way de-
creased, and he had a firm conviction that, if the sugar, the
produce of slave-labour, were to be introduced into this coun-
try, it would give a very great stimulus to the slave trade, and
increase those horrors which we had been at so much pains
and expense to prevent. It was thought, and said by some,
the anti-slave trade feeling was extinct in this country, but he
believed that such was not the case, and that if the exertions
which had of late years been made by the country to suppress
the slave trade had rendered that feeling dormant, it had not
by any means been extinguished. He did believe that, though
dormant now, the feeling would immediately revive if any
measures were to be taken which were likely in any way to re-
vive the horrors which that feeling protected. What were
these horrors? In a space where the decks were only from two
to two-and-a-half feet apart, between 600 and 700 human
beings were crowded and transferred in that state from the
coast of Africa to Cuba and Brasil. Only conceive the hor-
rors of from 600 to 700 human beings being crowded into such
a space, and enduring through the whole of the Middle Pas-
sage in a confinement of two feet-and-a-half. On their
arrival in Brazil, their limbs were so paralysed that they were
unfit for the business for which they had been conveyed there.
The two countries which carry on the slave-trade are those
countries whose produce the Noble Lord was desirous to in-
troduce without discriminating duties. Beside the advantage
which those countries possessed in the cheapness of slave-
labour, there was also another. In Brazil there was more fresh
land, virgin land, than in any other from which sugar was
introduced into this country. Now, the opening
of the markets for the importation of Brazilian sugar,
without any differential duty, would be greatly instrumental in
promoting slavery. The effect of the efforts of this country
showed the full advantage derived in the suppression of the
slave trade. Last
,year the number of vessels captured and
condemned was thirty-seven or forty-seven vessels. In 1844,
as compared with 1843, it appeared that the vessels condemned
by the Commission Courts—he did not allude to the Admiralty
Courts—was in 1843 fifteen, while in 1844 they were thirty-
five. 'I his, it might be said, was an imperfect test, and he was
bound to allow it, for he believed that as many slaves were now
landed on the coast of Brazil as there ever were. They did
not diminish, but this was no fault of the arrangements with
that country, but the fact was the authorities neglected their
duty in this matter. In Cuba, when General Valdez
(who was appointed to the office by Espartero)
was Governor, to his honour be it spoken, he
had honestly and earnestly exerted himself to suppress the
slave trade. During his government the efforts to that end
were eminently successful, and the number of slaves intro-
duced into Cuba declined from 13,800 to 12,000, to 10,000,
and in 1842 to 3,1 00. And he ( Sir R. Peel) believed, that
if General Valdez had remained, the slave trade in Cuba
would have been altogether suppressed. In Brazil, he be-
lieved the authorities were equally sincere, but private inte-
terest had proved too powerful for public duty, and the slave
trade had revived, and, without the concurrence of the au-
thorities, he believed it would revive. Would it be consis-
tent to have a naval armament upon the coast of Africa, for
the ostensible purpose of preventing the slave trade, and,
at the same time, to have vessels laden with sugar, the produce
and the support of that trade, sailing from Cuba and Brasil to
our ports ?—( Cheers.) Those countries had entered intout
engagements with us for prohibiting the trade,slave_ear
they had not fulfilled those engagements.—(B ,h
He must admit that there seemed to be some inconsistency
in allowing the importation of slave-grown cotton, and pro-
hibiting sugar.—( Hear.) He owned it was difficult to take
any course on those subjects that would not be liable to the
imputation of inconsistency. But he did not think that any
one on the opposite side of the House would prohibit the
importation of cotton which was the production of slave labour.
--(Hear, hear.) But the question was, whether the importa-
tion of sugar from Brazil and Cuba, which was the great curse

of the negro race, was to be permitted or not ? The growth
of sugar in those countries was the greatest aggravation of all
the horrors of the slave trade.—( Hear, hear.) The
question was not whether we were inconsistent or not, but
what was the course which we should pursue, all things
considered, for promoting the great interests of humanity.
We bad entered into engagements with other Governments,
who joined with us in establishing a sort of naval police on the
coast of Africa. Now, they might depend upon it, that if
this country were to take measures for receiving an un-
limited quantity of sugar from Cuba and Brazil, we could
not expect the co-operation of the Governments who aided
us in our efforts for the suppression of the slave-trade,
whilst we encouraged it with one hand, and
thwarted it feebly with the other. He believed that the
Governments of Europe were alive to the real state of this
question. They felt that after the measures we had taken it I
was not safe for them to continue slavery in their own posses-
sions in its present state.—( Hear, hear.) The King of
Sweden had very recently taken measures for its modification
in his possessions ; and the question of abolition in the Danish
colonies was under discussion in the States of Denmark. A
petition, most numerously signed, had been presented to the
States, pra)ing slavery to cease.—(Cheers.) In France the
question was under serious consideration whether slavery should
be continued or not. And Portugal was making honourable ef-
forts to fulfil her engagements with this country. Even in the
United States, where there were peculiar obstac'es—where
there had been a resolution of Congress that no petition fur the
ab,dition of slavery should be received ; public feeling was un-
dergoing a change—the resolution was rescinded, and now it
was competent for every Member to present such a petition.—
( Cheers.) He might venture to say that, notwithstanding
the state of public feeling in the United States, it would be
very difficult to maintain slavery there on its present footing.
It was not for him to offer any opinion upon the internal po-
licy of the United States—( Hear, hear)—but, speaking of
Europe. he believed that there prevailed through Ger-
many, France, Sweden, and Denmark, a strong opinion that the
time had arrived when they ought to follow the example of
England—(Cheers)—that the time had arrived when an end
should be put to the state of slavery.—(Cheers.) He hoped
that the House would not come to any decision which would
interrupt that course into which the current of public opinion
throughout Europe had turned.—( Hear, hear.) England was
now admitted to be the only power that took effective measures
for the suppression of slavery--which made vigorous, deter-
mined efforts to put down the slave trade on the coast of Africa.
—( Hear, hear.) There might be an inconsistency in ad-
mitting cotton the produce of slave countries; but that
inconsistency did not affect the moral position which
England held in the eyes of Europe on this question.
The efihrts which we had made were acknowledged as most
generous, and even splendid. But if we departed from that
course—if we unintentionally, but practically and certainly,
encouraged the slave trade, by admitting the sugar of Cuba
and Brasil, it would be an admission that their efforts had
failed, and it would appear to justify the assertion of Mr.
Colquhoun, that we were reviving the slave trade on the coast of
Africa under the name of apprenticeship. Whatever imputa-
tion might base been cast upon him (Sir R. Peel) for the
course which he had taken upon the resolutions in 1841, he
assured the House that if he now stood unfettered, he would vote
against the proposition of the Noble Lord—that sugar, the pro-
duce of slave labour, should be admitted into the markets of
Great Britain.—( Cheers.)
Lord PALMERSTON said that, whatever might be the re-
sult of the debate, nothing could be more satisfactory to him
than the discussion.—( Cheers and a laugh.) 'I he Right Hon.
Baronet had made no attempt to answer the arguments which
had been urged in favour of his Noble Friend's proposition.--
( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet, as was usual with
expert debaters, began his speech with topics in no way relavant
to the question. The Right Hon. Baronet began with the
income-tax, and taunted the Opposition with inconsistency in
supporting that tax, and complaining that use had not been
made of the surplus, so as to enable the Government
to dispense with it at the end of three years.—
(Hear, hear.) It was perfectly consistent for men
to think that protection was the bane of the interests which it
was meant to prosper, and at the same time that it was not ex-
pedient to n ithdraw it from the interests which had been long
vested upon its faith. The Right Hon. Baronet had taunted
the Opposition with their want of success in their commercial
treaties with foreign Powers. Now, the Right Hon. Baronet
some years ago seemed to expect that when he came into
office he would be able to settle these matters. What was the
fact? Why, the Right Hon. Baronet's Government had en-
tirely failed.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet threw
over the commercial and financial part of this question, and
justified the distinction they made between free-grown sugar
and slave-grown sugar, on the ground that they had under-
taken to do all they could to suppress the slave trade. In this
respect, his ground was much narrower than the ground taken
up by his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
and the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of
Trade, because they took their stand upon the general prin-
ciple of humanity, and contended, upon that principle, that
the country ought to do everything toward discouraging slavery
and the slave trade. The Right Hon. Baronet renounced this
advantage, and took his stand upon the arrangements existing
between foreign Powers and Great Britain, on the subject of
the slave trade. The Right Hon. Baronet, in reply to the un-
answerable argument of his Hon. Friend the Member for Edin-
burgh, founded upon the importation of cotton, said the United
States had not entered into a negotiation with this country, and,
therefore, none had been violated. The United States were
free from any engagements, and of course they had, said the
Right Hon. Baronet, a right to breed slaves and employ them
in the production of cotton. But, with regard to Brazil, the
case was different, and he made the distinction to punish them
for doing that which they had undertaken not to do. The
Right Honourable Baronet had thus avoided the principle of
humanity, and thrown himself solely upon the rights given to
this country by the treaties. Brazil and Spain had entered
into treaties, by which they bound themselves not to prosecute
their trade in slaves. Those treaties were broken, and, there-
fore, as a punishment, this Government said they were enti-
tled to say their slave produce should not be admitted. If this
argument, however, applied to one, it was applicable
to all import duties on slave produce. If this protection
were given to sugar, it ought to be given to coffee.
But what did the Goverdment do last year? Why, they re-
duced the discriminating duty on Brazilian coffee, the produce
of slave-labour.— ( Hear, hear.) This they did last year, but
had they done nothing this year in direct violation of their
principles? The Government proposed to reduce the duty on
copper ore, and where slid copper ore come from ? From
Cuba. How was it got from the bowels of the earth ? By
the labour of slaves.—(Hear, hear.) Thus by the tariff
of last year, and by the measures proposed,
the Government directly violated the principles they
asked the House to sanction—( Hear, hear)s—and withheld
from the population of this country comforts and indulgences
which might otherwise be afforded to them. But he must say
that this course was inconsistent from beginning to end.
He need hardly say that he concurred in all that
had fallen from the Right Honourable Baronet about
the horrors of the slave trade. It was a matter
upon which the people and Parliament had always been
united, and however strongly Honourable Members op-
posite might declare that the Opposition only agravated the
slave-trade by their present course, he would venture to say,
that there were those out of doors, who would confirm their
opinion. Instead of the evils being increased there was no doubt
they had been greatly diminished. In the year 1840, 1841,
and 1842, the number of slaves imported into Cuba and the
Brazils had very considerably fallen off, and no one
denied the assertion of the Right Honourable Ba-
ronet that this change had resulted from exer-
tions made by the Government to suppress the traffic.
Now, though he should feel sorry that there was any division of
opinion upon this subject, he was very glad to hear the state-
ment of her Majesty's Ministers, that it was their intention not
to relax in their endeavours until the slave trade should be en.
tirely done away with. But whatever the opinion of the Go-
vernment should be on this question, or whatever their argu-
ments might be in support of this absurd doctrine of
protection, he would ask how they meant to defend
the course they intended to pursue of continuing
this protection? Of what value, he would ask, would it be to
the country that large estimates for the naval force should be
granted, in order to keep up a number of armed vessels on the
slave coasts, if those vessels had not the power of the right of
search ?—( Hear, hear.) What had been the object of all
modern Governments of England on this question? In
the year 1814 it was a great object of Lord
Castlereagh, and it was with that view that he
entered into a treaty with Gene, and a few years afterwards the
Duke of Wellington tried to get a consent from France for the
abolition of slavery, but he found it to be impossible. Again,
in the year 1818, the same experiment was tried with France,
but again a refusal was the result. The same experiment was
tried in 1823, and again in 1827, and with a like result. Well,
then, the present Government came into office, and
what did they do? Why, so far from following
up this subject with perseverance, they recklessly threw it over-
board altogether.—( Hear, hear.) Then came the letter of
Lord Aberdeen, which was now on the table, and that letter
recommended the trial of an experiment as a substitute for
what previous Governments recommended.—(Hear, hear.)
Now, he would ask, what would b e the result, if 20,009 tons
of sugar were taken out of the market ; whether that were
the produce of slave labour or free labour, it would
create a void which should be made up, and until it was, the
price of what remained would be increased.—( Hear, hear.)
Therefore it would be quite absurd to make distinctions which
admitted of no difference, as in the proposed plan of the Go-
vernment. Therefore, whatever might have been the argu-
ments of Honourable Members opposite, there was no
real ground on which they could support them ; and
when those arguments came to be read by the public,
and particularly the speech of his Right Honourable
Friend the Member for Edinburgh, the opinion of the public
would be that the interests of the consumers had been sacri-
ficed without any consideration for humanity, but that it had
been done merely to promote the West India interests, which in
the end it would be found had not been benefitted, but pa-
ralysed by such legislation, and upon whom real benefit wonld
be conferred if all protection were withdrawn, and a fair and
Lull and free competition given to every branch of industry.
Sir C. NAPIER contended that sugar would be shipped
from Cuba and Brazil and sent to Florida, reshipped to this
country, and admitted as free-labour sugar. As to the slave-
trade, he believed that sending vessels to the coast of Africa
was useless, unless they also sent cruisers to the coasts of
Brand and Cuba to stop the slave-traders that escaped
from the coast of Africa.—( Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman
had put words into the mouth of the Noble Lord the Mein-
for the City of London, which he (Sir C. Napier) did not
think the Noble Lord had used. The Right Hon. Baronet
stated that the Noble Lord had said that the slavers only con-
tained two feet of stowage room for the slaves. This was
evidently a mistake, for two feet would not be sufficient to
stow a turkey in.—(Laughter, and cries of " Divide.")
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared--
For the amendment
Against it
Majority against the amendment —94
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned shortly before One o'clock.

PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS.

TUESDAY, FED. 25.

a an
in dR
aCi la wayal
:
and
T The Huddersfield
Manchester South Junction an Huddersfield and MaiichesterdßAiaitlrwinac3h,
Bills, were read a first time.
e;rtrfeoprodrtanredferßreigdgletsowatite
Line),—Petition
Eastern Counties
Accrington and Coke Extension Rail-
way,—Petition o r Billßai lwr
reported; r tend
Blackburn, Burnley,
Petition for Bill reported, and Bill ordered to brought
Select Committee on Standing Orders.
way,—
' Chester and Holyhead Railway,—Petition for Bill reported,
'n by Mr. Walker and Mr. Wilson Patten...
and Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. Owen Stanle
Colonel Paget, and Mr. William Collett. y,
Eastern Counties Railway, (Ely and Whittlesea Devia-
tion),—Petition for Bill reported, and Bill ordered to be
brought in by Mr. Eliott Yorke and Mr. Ward.
Eastern Counties Railway (Cambridge and Huntingdon
Line),—Petition for Bill reported, and Bill ordered to be
brought in by Mr. Eliott Yorke and Mr. Ward.
Caledonian Railway Bill,—" for making a Railway from
Carlisle to Edinburgh and Glasgow, and the North of Scot-
land, to be called ' The Caledonian Railway,' " presented, and
read a first time.
Monkland and Kirkintilloch Railway Bill,—" to enable the
Moukland and Kirkintilloch Railway Company to improve
the guage of their rails," presented, and read a first time.
Cockermouth and Workington Railway Bill,—Read a
second time, and committed, and referred to the Committee
Qf Selection,

Blackburn and Prestep Railway,—Petition for Bill ; re-
ferred to the Select Committee on Petition for Private Bills.
Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle Railway Bill,—" fir mak-
ing a RailwaY from the Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and
Ayr Railway, near Kilmarnock, by Dumfries and Annan, to
Carlisle, to be called, The Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle
Railway,' " presented, and read a first time.
Dublin and Belfast Junction Railway, with a Branch to
Bells,—Petition for Bill; referred to the Select Committee
on Petitions for Private Bills.
Chester and Birkenhead Railway Extension Bill,—Read
second time, and committed, and referred to the Committee
of :.-election.

PRIVATE BUSINESS, WEDNESDAY, FEB. 26.
Clydesdale Junction Railway,
Newcastle and Darlington randling Junction) Railway,
York and North Midland (Bridlington Branch) Railway,
Cambridge and Lincoln Railway,
Cornwall Railway, . .. .-
York and North Midland (Goole Branch) Railway,.
Shrewsbury and Birmingham Railway.
London, Worcester, and South Staffordshire Railway,
Glasgow Junction Railway,
Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock, and Ayr Railway
NOTICES GIVEN AT THE PRIVATE BILL OFFICE.
TUESDAY, FEB. 25.
Surrey Iron Railway Company (Dssolving),—Committee
on petition, Monday, March 10.
Blackburn and Preston Railway,—Committee on petition
Monday, March 10.
Dundalk and Inniskillen Railway.—Committee on petition,
Thursday, March 13.
Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle Railway,—Second read-
ing, Monday, March 3.
TT—
R. I"

_AIL WA Y COMMITTEES
The Sub-Cotnntittee, No. 2, met yesterday. Pre-
sent Sir J. Y. Buller, Mr. F. Mackenzie, Mr. Kemble,
Mr. Yorke, and Mr. Walker.
SIiREWSBURY AND BIRMINGHAM RAILWAY.
The Committee was occupied the whole day in inves-
tigating objections to the petition: The opponents sus-
tained a great number of objections, arising out of omis-
sions and :nisdescriptions on the plans.
The Committee adjourned at four o'clock till Friday,
when they will take the objections arising upon the errors
in the books of reference.

MONEY and COMMERCIAL NEWS.
CITY, WEDNESDAY EVENING.
Consols closed at 993/4 y.i, ; New Three. and-a-Quarter per
Cents. at 104 ; and Reduced Three per Cents. at 100%,
being rather firmer than in the morning. Exchequer-bills
were 665. to 645. premium.
The Foreign market was without the slightest animation.
Brazil were 893/4 ; Mexican, 35% ; and Dutch Two-and•
a-Half per Cents., 63%; Spanish Five per Cents. were 27%.
The additional transactions in Railway Shares have been
these :—Birmingham and Gloucester were 32%; Chester and
Holyhead, 3 to 3%; Churnet Valley, 53/4 %; Eastern
Counties, 24 to %; Great Southern and Western (Ireland)
614 %; Great Western, 95 to 94 ; Ditto, Fifths, 18%
Great North of England, 88; Ditto, New, 37; Guildford
and Portsmouth, 2; Hull and Gainsborough, %; Hull and
Selby, 29 to 313/4 ; Birmingham, 130 ; Brighton, 10 9%;
South Western, 365/ to 37-N ; Croydon, 41, ; Manchester
and Leeds, 65 ; Midland, New, 6 ; Newark and Sheffield,
1%; North British' 51,4 to 5 ; Northern and Eastern, 16%;
North Kent, 1/8 ; Rugby and Tring, 2% % ' • Shrewsbury
and Birmingham, 13/4 ; South Eastern, 71/2; Trent Valley.
18 ; West Cornwall, 2%; York and North Midland, Halt,
25 ; Ditto, Scarborough Branch, 21 to 22 ; Boulogne and
Amiens, 3% to 44 ; Great Northern of France, 1%; and
Orleans and Bordeaux, 43/4 premium. Midland, Birming.-
ham, and Derby have been 6 ; and Strasburg and Bale,
13/4
discount. Australian Bank shares were 41A e• London Joint
Stock, 4; and London and Westminster Bank, 7% prem.
(Fron The Sun of Last Night.)
The Cotton market at Liverpool yesterday .wis quieter. Sales, 2,000 to 2,500 bales, all to the trade, at previous rates.
—Shares rather improved. Birmingham and Derby, 941 ;
Birmingham and Gloucester, 131 ; Bristol and Gloucester,
58 ; Caledonian, 71,E ; Cambridge and Lincoln, 595. ;
Chester and. Holyhead ,8; Churnet Valley, 7% % • Eastern
Counties, 17% ; Ditto, Perpetual, No. 2, 235. ; Edinburgh
and Glasgow, New Quarter, 5% ; Glasgow and Dum-
fries, 16s. 6d. ; Glasgow and Greenock, 15% ; Kendal
and Windermere, 4% ; Lancaster and Preston, Quar-
ters, 7 ; Liverpool and Preston, 2% 3 ; London and
Birmingham, 230%; Ditto, 321. Shares, 41% ' • London and
Brighton, 58; London and South-Western, 501. Shares; 124
12%; London and York, 7%; Direct Northern, 2; Man-
chester and Birmingham, Quarter, 11% ' • Manchester and
Leeds, Half, 601/ 61; Ditto, Quarter, 1414 %; Midland
Counties, 1251 A •, Newcastle and Berwick, 14 13%; North
Wales, 111; ; Shrewsbury and Grand Junction, 5%; South-
Eastern, No. 1, 14% % ; Ditto, No. 2, 93'; Trent Valley,
19% 20; Paris and Lyons, 3; Orleans, Tours, and-Bor-
deaux, 61/2 3/4 ; Boulogne and Amiens, 51. 121.; Northern of
France, Si. lls. 3d.
There are no arrivals to-day with later intelligence from
any quarter.
The public securities have been rather lively to-day, but
the market continues unsteady. Consols for present transfer
have realised 99% to 99%, and for the next account about
993/4 to 99%. Exchequer-bills have been fluctuating from
635. to 675. prem. ' • New Three-and-a-Quarterper Cents. have
realised 104% to 103% ; and the Three per Cents. 100% to
1004. Bank Stock is 212 to 213; and India Stock 281 to'
283, being rather better.
The Foreign Investments are flat again; Spanish Five per
Cents. at 273/4 %, and the Three per Cents. at 404 to %.
Por uguese Converted have been 60% to 61%. Mexican
Bonds have realised 354 to %, and Buenos Ayres 42. Dutch
Two-and a-Half per Cents. have been 63% to 14.
The Share Market is more buoyant to-day, with one or two
exceptions, as the list subjoined will show.
ONE CLOSING
PRICES OF BRITISH FUNDS. O'CLOCK. PRICES.
Bank Stock
3 per Cent. Reduced
3 per Cent. Consols 99%% 993/4
New 314 per Cents
Long Annuities toexpireJan.lB6o 12 1-16 12 1-16
Ditto 30 years, Oct. 10, 11359 ll% 11%
India Stock
India Bonds, 1,00 W.. ...... ...... .. 72 72
Ditto under 1,000/. . ...
South Sea Stock
Consols for Account... ....... 99% % 99%
Exchequer Bills, 1,000/., 1%d.... 63 66
pm. 64
Ditto 500/. .
pm. 64
Ditto Small ... 67 64 pm. 64
Ditto Advertised 63 65 pm. 66
ONE CLOSING
PRICES OF FOREIGN FUNDS. O'CLOCK. PRICES.
Brazilian Bonds
Buenos Ayres Bonds, 6 per Cent 42
Mexican, 5 per Cent. 1837 35%4 35%
Ditto, Deferred Stock 1614 16
Portuguese Bonds, 5 per Cent
Ditto, Converted
Ditto, Account
Spanish 5 per Cent. 1840.
Ditto, Passive
Ditto 3 per Cent. •.. .. ...... 40%14
Venezuela Bonds, 2 per Cent 45 44 -
Ditto, Deferred
Belgian Scrip, 2% per Cent
Dutch, 2% per Cent
Ditto, 4 per Cent., Certific 991% 98%
PRICES OF
CLOSING
RAILWAY SHARES PAID. AT ONE O'CLOCK. PRICE&
Birming. and Gloucesterloo ..... 131% 132%
Ditto 1/2 Shares
Bristol. and Exeter.
Ditto New..... ......... 2 ......
,14
Bristol and Gloucester... 30 ....., 55% 577
Caledonian
Cambridge and Lincoln 1% 2%41A.. ... . 2% •
Chester and Holyhead... 5
Churnet Valley
Cornwall
Direct Northern
1 Mblin and Belfast June 2% 51%
Dublin and Galway..... 21,( 3
Eastern Counties 141. 163....... 1634 1714 ..... .
Eastern Union
Ditto Extension
Edinburgh and Glasgow 50
Ditto, Quarter Shares 12%...... 15%
Great South. and West.
(Ireland)
12 .. ........... •
Ditto Extension
Great North of England..100
Ditto New ..... .. ........ 5
Ditto New
Great Western ... 80 ......1741A
Ditto % Shares 5O , 99 99
Ditto Fifths
Guildford, Farn'm,Ports. 21 ... ..
Hull and Gainsborough 1% 214
Hull and Selby
London and Birminghm (5t0ck)...228 . 230
London and Blackwell. 16/. 13s. 4d. 7%
London and Brighton... 50 ... 57% 58%3/4 59% 59%
London and S. Western 41/6310d 78% 79
Ditto New 2%...12 111,4%
London and Croydon, 13/. 15s. 9d. 18%
Ditto Guaranteed 5 per
Cent. -
London and York 2% 676 7% -•
Manchester and Birmin. 40
..... 6314
Ditto Quarters
Manchester and Leeds... 73
Midland... 100 125 .. —
Ditto New 2 ..... 73/44 $
Midland, Birm., Derby...100
Newcastle and Darling-
ton Junction ... 24 ..... 47p 49 .... ..... --
Newcastle and Berwick 1% ...... 13'4; 13 ... ..... •••••
Newark and Sheffield ... 114 2
North British
Ditto, New
Northern and Eastern... 45
North Kent
Rigby,Wor'ster,&Tring 1
Shrews., Wolverhamp.,
Dudley, and Birm 21,1 41,1%% 4I
South Eastern & Dover 33l 2s 4d... 393/ 3/
/4
Ditto, No. 1
Ditto, No. 2.
Ditto, No. 3 2% 7% 8.......,..
South Wales
Trent Valley •
Waterford and Kilkenny 1.. 2 8 ............ ...
West Cornwall
York and North Midland 50 * ........ '
...... 103 1022.. .. ••
....
Ditto 1/2 Share 5......
Ditto Scarboro' Branch. 20
FREN....."""'•......
CH RAILWAYS.
Boulogne and Amiens... 2
Great North, of France
.. 4 ... ... 5%
Orleans and Bordeaux... 2 6IA%
e ..aris and Lyons .) ....
.. ...... 3
-
Paris and Orleans .....
Paris .... 20 .
and Rouen ........ 20 .•
423/4
Strasbourg and Bale I_ 14
Tours and Nantes 1
JOINT STOCX BANKS,
Australasia
Colonial
London Joint Stock..... 10 - ,
London & Westminster. 20
MANCHESTER STOCK EXCHANGE, FEB. 25.—We have had
a steady market and a fair business. The quotations are and Exeter, New Shares, 6 3-16 ; Chester and Holy-.
head, 7% 8% • Great North of England, 30/. Shares, 19%;
London and iirmingham, Quarter Shares, 29 ; Manchester:
and Leeds, .Quarter Shares, 14%; Manchester, Bury sult.
Rossendale, 10% ; Midland, 40/. Shares, 8; ShoffieT and
Manchester, Quarter Shares, 13; South-Eastern, 1,lum"!
Barnsley Junction, Half Shares, 2%;
chester, and Cheshire Junction, 7% 8; Blackburn, D-a—rweln.,
Eanlydßanoldto
HeyuddleArsfie d'
and Sheffield Junction, 4.36; Kendal Valley,
4%;
213e3dPord; , C 1 um! e d; o
En Caledonian, nw, a
t6iNalC i
el ,Churnet
974 i Yn;
Oxford and Rugby, 314 ; London and York, MI
Wor-
cester,
and Sheffield, 2,4 •
and Buxton, 3%; Newark
Leeds, Dewsbury, and Manchester, 33/4; London and Wok-
Manchester
Trent ' Valley, 19% % ; Union Plate Glass, 18.

27.%

-
17%

11%

18'

.....
3%

13
6$
5
6 4

104