The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-29 00:00:00

MALT DRAWBACK MIL.

Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN regretted that he ft!l

obliged to persevere in calling upon the House to for-
ward this Bill through the stage of a second reading,
and so reluctantly act in opposition to the wishes of the
Noble Lord. The Noble Lord's resolutions were, how-
ever, vague and visionary, whereas the measure he ad-
vocated was real and practical. He hoped, therefore, the
Government would either allow the second reading of
the Bill, or give a definite promise to bring forward a
measure which would meet the difficulties at present ex-
isting.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CARDWELL admitted the practical nature of

he measure, but assured the House that the objections

to it were equally practical. The Government,' think-
ing it respectful to the Hon. Member who had intro-
duced the Bill, as well as due to the importance of the
subject, to institute a careful inquiry into its propo-
sitions, had taken the opinion of some of the most emi-
nent chemists on the possibility of meeting and con-
sulting them. Professor Faraday, in a letter to the
Board of Trade, had stated that no process was known
for rendering malt unfit for distillation and yet suitable
for feeding cattle. Professors Graham and Liebig had
given similar opinions, and acting upon those, and the
belief that the present Bill went virtually to the repeal
of the malt tax, he must, though reluctantly, give it a de-
cided negative.
Mr. MILES suggested that, pending a more favour-
able opportunity, the Hon. Member for Northampton
should withdraw his proposition. A more fitting season
would, he felt assured, arrive, when its success would be
less doubtful, and its effects more beneficial.
Lord HO WICK, while urging the withdrawal of the

present motion, advised the introduction of Egyptian
beans and Indian corn, duty free, considering them as
articles of great comparative superiority in feeding cattle.
Mr. ESCOTT deprecated the present as one of a
series of spurious measures for conciliating the farmers,
which, however, he believed they were not blind enough
to be duped by.
Mr. CURTEIS, while recommending that the mea-
sure should not be pressed, as he considered it still in
abeyance, would, nevertheless, if pressed, give it his cor-
dial support.
Mr. HUME trusted that the Hon. Member, after the
fair explanation of the Vice-President of the Board of
Trade, would not persist in his motion. He concurred
with his Noble Friend the Member for Sunderland, that
the introduction of Egyptian beans, and Indian corn,
duty free, would be far more beneficial than the mea-
sure now so strenuously advocated.
Sir R. PEEL said he would agree with the Hon.
Member for Sussex in recommending the postpone-
ment of this Bill. His Hon. Friend had said he would
have the positive decision of the House on the second
reading, either for the measure or against it. He would
recommend his Hon. Friend to withdraw the Bill alto-
gether or to postpone it. Without meaning to depreciate
from the authorities that had been adduced by diff,rent
Hon. Gentlemen, as to the advisability of feeding catt e
on malt, he must say that the opinions of Professors
Liebig and Faraday, who very much doubted whether
any advantage would result from so feedir, cattle, had a
very considerable influence with him. And even if there
were advantages to be derived, there were:other reasons
that would not render it advisable to pass the Bill. The
present opinion of the Government was decidedly unfa-
vourable to it, as they considered it was calculated to

lead to defrauding the Excise. He thought it only pro-
per to state that opinion at once.
Lord J. RUSSELL said, that during the time the
late Government were in office, the present Duke of
Bedford wished very much to promote a measure similar
to the one proposed, and requested him to inquire from the
Excise-office whether such a measure could be had with-
out danger. The question had been examined into by
the present Government, and, after making every in-
quiry, they had come to the same resolution as the pre-
vi.ais Ministry, that the measure would tend to defraud
and not benefit the agriculturist. The Hon. Gentleman
who moved this Bill considered it not only necessary to
say that he thought the Bill was of great importance,
but also to make an attack on the motion he had sub-
mitted to the House last night. He went quite out of
the wity to make that attack. He had said there would
be a slur cast on the Government if those resolutions
were carried, and another alteration in the corn-laws
would be necessary. The Noble Lord thought a slur
would be cast on the Government if the proposed Bill
passed, and said if the Hon. Gentleman thought the Bill
was of sufficient importance to move it, he was quite
justified in moving it.
Mr. BUCK observed that he would protest against
the measure, and recommended that under the circum-
stances the Bill should be withdrawn.

Lord WORSLEY remarked that it had been stated
in the House that Professor Faraday had said malt was
not good food for cattle, but to his own knowledge, a
friend of his had fed cattle with malt and they had
thriven on it. He felt sure the Hon. Member for Nor-
thamptonshire deserved the thanks of all for good inten-
tions, and would recommend him to consider whether it
would not be prudent to bring forward at some future
period a measure for the total repeal of the law.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN said he thought it would
be advisable to give way at once. He proposed the
measure thinking that it would not inconvenience Hon.
Gentlemen. It was not for him to pronounce a sen-
tence on the Government if they were censurable. As
the law at present stood the farmer might do anything
but kiln or dry malt. Anything less than that he was com-
petent to do. He would wish to be informed definitely
what was the boundary to which the farmers might go.
There were many of them who were ignorant that
they might proceed so far in the manufacture of malt
without being exposed to a visit from the Excise. He
had consulted two practical farmers whose opinions went
to prove that malt was excellent when used as food for
cattle. Professor Faraday had been quoted as an authority
against malt being employed for such a purpose ; but he
would say to the Government that if they would consult
professors less and farmers more their conduct would give
more satisfaction to the people.
THE CONDITION OF THE PEOPLE.—THE
ADJOURNED DEBATE.
Mr. P. HOWARD said when he had moved the ad-
journment of the debate the other night he had felt
anxious to have addressed the House, but owing to the
lateness of
i the hour he did not at that time deem it ad-
visable to intrude his opinions on the subject. It had
been remarked, by a very acute observer of passing
events, that unity was as necessary to political as it was
to artistical effect. In former times it was the custom,
on the introduction of a party measure, to resolve the
House into a Committee on the state of the nation, and
although such a course might appear somewhat vague
in its object, or stringent in its effects, was tanta-
mount to a withdrawal of confidence in Ministers, If

the effect of the proposed measure occasioned a with-
drawal of confidence in the Administration, it
would not, in his opinion, tend to the benefit of the
country at large. He conceived he should not be
justified in yielding his assent to those restrictive reso-
lutions which would have that effect. If the Noble
Lord had said that the proposed measure was merely a
resolution to give his own private opinion to the House
—if ho had announced his intention of not taking the
opinion of the House, Hon. Members would have been
happy to have been enlightened by the expression of his
wisdom and experience; but for the Noble Lord uncom-
promisingly to pledge every Member to every one of
those resolutions was what he (Mr. Howard) could not
deferentially submit to. He was not unprepared to admit
that the unsettled state of the country was mainly at-
tributable to the panic occasioned by the First Lord of
the Treasury ; but he would have the House to under-
stand thoroughly the nature of the proposed resolutions,
and to ponder over them maturely before they came to a
definite opinion on the matter. The ultimate results of
this measure might prove to be dangerous, disagreeable
and bad. One of the principal objects those resolu-
tions was evidently to introduce a change in the corn-
laws, and that was a question which could not be pru-
dently under-estimated. When the Noble Lord proposed
the alteration of the present duty to four shillings or
six shillings he did not proceed with the judgment,
which, in his opinion, would result advantageously and
beneficially to the condition of her Majesty's subjects.
During the time the Noble Lord was a Minister of the
Crown he had proposed a duty of eight shillings, which
he considered would tend to satisfy the demands of all
classes, but the attempt was unsuccessful, Ho (Mr.
Howard) considered there were more efficient and more
practicable means to accomplish the desired object.
He considered that if there was a deficiency of corn,
that is was from the colonies they should be first sup-
plied. It was desirable, before altering the present
corn-laws in favour of foreign powers, to ascertain what
they would give this country in return. If this country
were to take an unlimited quantity of wheat, those
powers might impose an export duty upon grain to he
shipped to this country, and thus the condition of the
consumer and the country would not be improved, while
the whole agricultural interest would be made to suffer.
The other evening he was much satisfied at hearing the
proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary
for the Home Department, for altering parochial settle-
ments, and that measure, if modified in some of its
provisions with respect to settlement by birth, and set-
tlement by local residenea, would remove much of the
hardships which at present were inflicted on the work-
ing classes, and be a much more practical course towards
meeting the condition of the country, than the course
proposed by the Noble Lord the Member for the City
of London. With respect to emigration, it was his opi-
nion that it should not be compulsory. The Board of
Trade ought to be an authorised body to afford intend-
ing emigrants every necessary information, but not to
force such a step upon the people. There was at present
a prospect of successful emigration. The cloud which
had overhung New Zealand was elearing away, and it
would afford a wide and valuable field for the purposes
of colonization. That country, so favourable to
human exertion, and so well adapted to the
constitution of the people of this empire, he was sure
might be made a place of the greatest resort for emi.
grants, and produce not only on those who went there,
but to the country they had left behind, the best possible
effects. The Noble Lord had set out with stating that
this was a period of political tranquillity and commer-
cial prosperity, and then he want on to state a series of
propositions respecting the condition of the people. In
those propositions he sought to make extensive altera-
tions, in the face of the declaration by which they were
preceded respecting the flourishing condition of the
country. This appeared to him inconsistent. The Reform
Bill had been alluded to by the Hon. Baronet the
Member for Essex, who spoke the other evening with.
respect to that measure. He (Mr. Howard) thought the
results had been most gratifying, to both the country
and that House, as it left the Government more indepen-
dant and unfettered in its course, and less dependant on
party for support. To alter the provisions of that mea-
sure he judged highly impolitic, and hence he could not
support the motion of the Hon. Member for Rochdale
(Mr. S. Crawford) for an extension of the suffrage. He
believed, also, the country was indifferent to the subject.
In these times of prosperity worthy and industrious
working-men had the means of acquiring, by their
exertion, the elective franchise, and this he looked upon
as one of the great advantages of a representative system.
The Noble Lord, with his accustomed eloquence, had
adverted to the subject of education of the people, Now,
he (Mr. Howard) was not indifferent to the extension of
education, but it ought not to be overlooked that the
Executive Government, who had taken up that subject,
had encountered considerable difficulty on that sub-
ject. Were religion excluded, as in the case of the pro-
posed Colleges for Ireland, then objections were started
that such an education tended to infidelity ; or if, on the
other hand, religion were made a peculiar feature,
then the religions that were not favoured were

excited into -opposition. He had been much
pleased in listening to the able statement of the Noble
Lord, but he thought it out of all precedent to introduce
such a string of abstract resolutions as he had done.
He (Mr. Howard) had sat in that House fifteen years,
and he had never known any Hon. Member introduce,
at any one time, any motion that would involve
such extensive changes :as that of the Noble Lord.
At the present time he thought the motion out of place,
and hence he should oppose it. He believed that
nothing beneficial to the country could flow out of it.
Mr. ESCOTT agreed with what the Hon. Gentleman
who had just sat down had stated respecting the motion
being made up of a string of abstract resolutions ; but
they, nevertheless, involved important practical results.

The propositions of the Noble Lord contemplated great
changes. They set out with a statement respecting the
political tranquillity and commercial prosperity of the
country, and then entered into a series of questions, the
direct object of which appeared to be, the changing of
that Government by which this state e tranquillity and
prosperity had been brought about. —(Cries of

Hear, hear.") That was the only in►elligible
meaning that could be applied to the motion. He con-
sidered the question had been brought forward at a very
improper time, and with no hope of leading to any be-
neficial end. He looked upon it as a dangerous ques-
tion, and more calculated to excite the feelings than to
appeal to the judgment of the peop!e of the country.
This was no time for bringint, up the question of the
people's distress, or with profit and advantage to all
parties concerned. With proper management, and with
a due cultivation of the soil, there was HO necessity fur
emigration. With regard to education, he thought
there was no necessity for going into the sub-

ject at present, seeing that the matter was in
the hands of the Government. But the great question in-
volved by the Noble Lord's motion was that of exciting
an agitation to make the working classes discontented
with their conditicn. .Such discussions did no good
as they led to no beneficial or practical result. The
Noble Lord the Member for Dorsetshire had much to
answer for in this respect. He had brought subjects
before their notice which were only calculated to excite
benevolent feelings without ending in any benefit to the
parties who were the subject of those feelings. The
Noble Lord (the Member for London) he was afraid
was liable to something of the same charge. Any en-
couragement of emigration he (Mr. Escott) held would
be attended with no great benefit, nor did he think it
necessary that such a step should be carried out. He
believed that this country even with its present prices
could beneficially employ the whole population, If the mo-
tion of the Noble Lord were carried it would be followed
up with the most important alterations in the corn-laws.
The Hon. Member for Essex had stated that there was no
plan proposed. Certainly there was no new plan. He
remembered a Noble Lord, not then in his place, the
Lord Palmerston, two years ago, on a motion on the
import duties, reflected on what he termed the Govern-
ment's pedantic adherence to former professions.
That Noble Lord had a right to act upon the oppo-
site principle himself; but he (Mr. Escott) could not
say that the Noble Lord who had introduced the present
motion had so acted, for he had certainly shown a
most romantic adherence to his former opinions. He
had made inquiries from Members both in and out
of that House, with respect to their feeling on the fixed
duty, and with the exception of the Noble Lord the
Member for London there was not one in favour of it
That being the case, he should like to know how or with
whom he meant to form his Government with
respect to the fixed duty. The Noble Lord the Mem-
ber for Sunderland might certainly change his mind upon
the subject ; but, till he heard that that was the case,
he had no right to assume it as fact ; and under these
circumstances he was at a loss to how the Noble Lord in
tended to carry into effect the principle for which he had
so perseveringly contended. There was another reason
which made the conduct of the Noble Lord still more
astonishing. It was not more than six weeks ago since
he had heard the Noble Lord say that protection WAS
the bane of agriculture.—(Hear, hear.) He did not
indeed. On a great question such as the corn•laws—a
question on which so much depended—it was absolutely
necessary that the House should deliberate carefully as
to any course it should adopt. It seemed to him that
there were two parties in that House, and the country
too, on this question. He denied, however, that there
was auy great feeling agitating the country in reference
to it. The great free traders and protectionists who
had been so prominent two or three years age, had
softened down, and there was now no longer anything
like the interest which some time ago had been taken in
it. In the country there was no agitation. He must
say, that it was creditable to the Honourable
Members on that side of the House to give up
the high rates of duty, which they had recently
done. It proved there was no selfishness connected
with them; and he did not hesitate to say, that they had
acted a noble and a generous part. The other part of
the House who took a different view of the subject were
of two classes—part of them, who called themselves the
farmer's friends, and for whom he entertained the greatest
respect, were, he thought, influenced in their opposition
by the best motives. He considered that they were desi-
rous to promote the interest of the people, and he
honoured them for their intentions, however much he
differed from them as to the mode of carrying them out.
But he did not understand the other class of the farmer's
friends. He did not understand those who went down
to the country and made an outcry, and raised their
shouts against measures which they themselves had, by
their votes, helped to carry into effect.—(Hear, hear,
and cheers.) That was a sect of farmers who were to
get credit for their good intentions! From the moment
that the late Corn Bill had been changed, and upon the
circumstances of that change, it was impossible for the
Government to fall back upon the old principle, and the
result was that the whole system of protection was com-
pletely undermined.—(Hear, hear.)
An HONOURABLE MEMBER here rose, and moved that
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corn, and put money into the pockets of the landowner