The Sun.
London, England, 1829-06-13 00:00:00

ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. Secretary PEEL moved that this liou3e, at
its rising, do adjourn till Friday next.

ATTENDANCE OF PROTESTANT SOLDIERS AT

CATHOLIC CEREMONIES.

Sir R. H. INGLIS presented a petition from the
clergyman and others of Wainfleet, Lincoln, pray-
ing that Protestant soldiers might be emancipated
from the obligation of attending at the processions
and other ceremonies of Catholics in foreign coun-
tries, and also (as we understood) that two officers
who were dismissed the service for refusing to sa-
lute at one of those festivals, might be recommended
to the Crown for restoration to their rank.

• Sir H. HARDINGE said, the case of those offi-
cers was not exactly as the Hon. Baronet had
stated. They were stationed at Malta, and had
been directed to fire a salute on the eve of one of
the religious festivals of that island, but they refused,
and the order was sent to the serjeant, who saw it
executed. They then remonstrated in a very im-
proper wanner at having the order given to the ser-
jeant, and for their conduct in disobedience of orders,
they were tried, and very justly, as it appeared to
him, dismissed the service. What they were called
on to do was not to join in any religious ceremony,
but merely to pay that respect which British troops
had always been accustomed to pay to the religion
of the people amongst whom they happened to be
stationed.—(Hear, hear.)—W hen our troops were
in Portugal, this respect to the religion of each was
paid by Catholic and Protestant soldiers, and it was
not an unfrequent thing to see a battalion of Catho-
lics attending their religious worship in part of the
field, and a battalion of Protestants assisting at
theirs in another; and for two years that he was
with the Prussian army in France, the soldiers,
though nearly all Lutherans, were in the habit of
tinning out to salute the Host. There was, he
contended, nothing either idolatrous or inconsistent
with Christian feeling to pay a respect to the re-
ligion of the .people amongst whom troops were
stationed.

Sir J. SEBRIGHT thought the case of those
two officers was one which called strongly for a
severe visitation; and he was glad that they had
bee dismissed.

Mr. TRANT agreed with the Hon. Baronet who
preceded him, that a man was bound to obey the
orders of his superior officer, but he differed from
him as to his view of this case in foto. He had
looked into this case, and he thought it one of ex-
treme hardship on those individuals who were dis-
missed, for he did not think it turned upon their
not firing the salute on the eve of the festival. But
why should our Protestant soldiers be called on to
take a part in those superstitious ceremonies, and to
violge their consciences ? Catholic soldiers had
heretofore complained, and very justly if the allega-
tion were true, of being compelled to attend Pro-
testant service ; and he did not see why Protestants
should not also, and with as much reason, com-
plain of being obliged to attend the religious wor-
ship of Catholics. This, he considered, called fur
explanation.
Sir H. 11ARDINGE said the objection of the
Hon. Member was not well founded ; for he could
state that no Protestant soldier was obliged to at-

tend Catholic worship, or to form part in Catholic
processions, or other ceremonies, in Malta or the

lonian Islands, or in any other part of the
If a Catholic soldier should choose to 'near a torch,
or take any part in ,tlr6o,it Ve:remonies, there could
be no object t. 6 'his doing so; but no Protestant
solditr Wns obliged to take any pail in them ; and
ilia Hon. Member was wholly mistaken if he step=
posed that any such regulation existed .Of
our colonies, or in any plate !where aritish troops
were stationed,

I Sir R. 11. INGLIS, in looking over the papers
connet;od With the case of the two officers, had
te-o.lit the military orders directing the officer- to
have saltnei fired on the occasion of particOlat fes--
tivals. The occasion on which thes'a offi.CerS were
directed to fife Wa-s on the tire 'Of the l'es!i-
val of St. Lorettio, time patron saint of the island.
The ()Meets 'cald liav no objection to.fire a salute
at z ttfital 'aur on any given day; but when they
wero told to fire it on the eve of the festival of tfrq
saint, it was impossible for them not to or..neCt the
act with a kind of worship of thal saint which they
could not feel, and tail(' not therefore conscien-
tiously ciTe.r.• in that respect, then, the order was
one which should not have been given, and which
ti.mscientiously they could not obey.
. . _ _

Mr. TRANT said, that in the course ef thfd next
Session he would move for furthtt information on
these orders, as they ok_lght to be inquired into.
Sir H. HARVINGE would refer the Hon.
Memo,Yer to the orders now in existence. They were
what he had stated. There was no compulsion
whatever to take any part in the procelsionsi or in
any of the religious ceremonies or tfitcse countries.
The petition was then brought up and read. On
the question thtkt it do lie en the table,
Sir R. H. INGLIS understood the officers only
remonstrated against being called upon to perform
such an act.

Sir H. HARDINGE said the Hon. Baronet
was mistaken as to that fact ; they first refused to
obey the orders, and when those orders were carried
into execution by an inferior officer, they sent a very
improper letter of remonstrance. In reply to what
fell from the Hon. Baronet as to their conduct, he
would stare, that if any officer under his (Sir H.
Hardinge's) orders had refused to obey his orders,
would bring him to a court-martial, and have him
broke if possible.—(Hear, hear.)—What would the
Hon. Baronet think of a Catholic soldier refusing to
fire a salute on the sth of November from any al-
leged conscientious scruples ? Would he not think
that a case where a man should be visited for dis-
obedience of orders ?—(Hear, hear.)
Sir M. W. RIDLEY rose to protest against the
doctrine laid down by the Hon. Member for Ox-
ford, with respect to the scrupulons feelings of offi-
cers, as in any way justifying their disobedience of
orders. An officer had no right to consider the
orders he received—his business was to obey them—
his superior being responsible.—(Hear, hear.)—All
he had to consider was, that they were not unlawful
in themselves.

The petition was ordered to lie on tile table.
STATE OF THE COUNTRY.

Mr. SADLER held in his hand a petition from
the manufacturers and other inhabitants of Black-
burn, in Lancashire, which, from the great import-
ance of the subjects to which it referred, deserved
the serious, anxious, and immediate attention of the
House. The petitioners complained of the great
distress in which they, in common with other ma-
nufacturing classes of the country, were involved ;
and in any fair view which could be taken of the
state of the country, it was impossible not to feel
that the statement of the petitioners had been made
out. He thought that it was the duty of Parlia-
ment to consider the allegations contained in this
petition. He knew that it would be said that Par-
liament had no means of redress for the existing dis-
tress, and that therefore we ought to leave it to
take its chance. But such was not the duty of the
Legislature : on the contrary, the Members of the
Legislature were bound to alleviate the distress of
the country. The Hon. Member he►e read the pe-
tition, which, after drawing a lamentable picture of
the general distress which pervaded every branch of
industry, stated that the cure of this distress was, in
the opinion of the petitioners, within the reach of
legislative controul. The petitioners therefore en-
treated the House to cause an investigation to be
made into the stagnation of trade under whicl► they
suffered.

Colonel SIBTHORPE supported the prayer of
the petition, and regretted that Ministers should
have advisep so early an adjournment of the House,
in the present distressed state of the country. What
had been done during the Session ? Nothing, but
that foolish, detestable, and atrocious Bill, which
gave emancipation to the Catholics. Within the
last few days he had received documents from Ire-
land, corroborating the statements which he had for-
merly made of the arrogant, insolent, and ungrateful
conduct of those who were, in his opinion, devils in•
carnate,—he meant the Roman Catholic Priests.—
(Roars of laughter.)—He would give the Howe a
specimen of what they had done. [Here the lion.
Member read a placard, headed " Education Society,
to establish free schools for the moral instruction of
the poor inhabitants of Ireland. Patron, his Grace
the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin : Presi-
dent, Lord Cloricurry ;" arid then follows a tre-
mendous list of donations, headed again by his
Grace the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin.]
It would he. said that the Attorney-General for Ire-
land would inquire into the matter, and if it were
found to be as he had stated it, would take the re-
quisite measures to stop such practices. Why hail he
not stopped it already ? We ought by all means
to prevent it, or people would ridicule them with jus-
tice for having brought in a Bill which would be a
disgrace even to parish legislation.—(Hear, hear.)—
It might be very pleasant for Members of that House
to be walking themselves off to the sea-side, or to
be going abroad into foriegn lands for their private
amusement ; but he could not on that account ap-
prove of an adjournment at this season, for he did
not see what right members of legislatu re had to en-
joy themselves in leisure, whilst all their constitu-
ents were involved in distress. His Majesty's Mi-
nisters might smile if they pleased at what he was
-saying, but he regretted that they could not find a
better opportunity for their smiles than when the
distress of the country was under consideration. He
hoped that Ministers would not recommend any ad-
journment of the House until they had given their
most serious consideration to a petition so respect-
ably signed as that which had just been presented
by his Honourable Friend the Member for Newark.
Mr. BARING thought that the House had been
unfairly .dealt with by the two lion. Gentlemen who
had spoken upon this petition. The lion. Member
for Newark had told them that the present distress
of the country was capable of receiving a Parlia-
mentary remedy, but had not told them of what
description that remedy was to be. if the Hon.
Member for Newark had told them what remedy he
had to propose, it might have been an inducement
for them to have sat longer; but he had done no
such thing.
Mr. HUME agreed with the Hon. Members for
Newark and Lincoln, that the people had a right to
complain of the refusal of Ministers to take into con-
sideration, the general state of distress under which
they laboured at present. It was too much to say,
that Hon. Gentlemen should not mention the dis-
tress of the country to the House, unless they were
prepared with some specific remedy to relieve it.
He had himself followed the plan recommended by
the Hon. Member for Callington, and he had not
benefitted in the slightest degree by it. Taxation
pressed heavily on the country—he had proposed to
reduce it. Our system of corn laws rendered the
price of food dear, and established a blockade against
us—he had endeavoured to get rid of them. Various
charges pressed heavily on our commerce—he had
sought to diminish them ; and what was the result
of his labours? Nothing,—absolutely nothing. It
was the duty of his Majesty's Ministers, he con-
tended, to find relief for the distresses of the coun-
try ; and when such petitions as those now before
the House were presented, it was not fair to turn
upon those who presented them, and say, " You

Must find a remedy far alein:'-` The House was
going adjourn without. having done any one thing
to reduce the taxation of the country, to reform the
Courts of Justice, or to introduce any one Bill to
ameliorate the moral condition of the people, gruff
though such was hotoriontly tho beSe, the aujourn.
merit was to tAlhplasso tosO riianths.before the ordi-
nary nessiods—(Hear.)—He therefore agreed with
the Hon. Members for Newark and Lincoln that the
people of England had good grounds to complain
that Government, which was hound to exinnine
into their condition, wes wont to giVe the go-by to
all the gat duties whiCh it bright to perfOrms
Mr. BARING. and Mr. Sanntn e*!delinecl.
Mrs WEBTERN esintbhded that inquiry into the
Mate Of trio country was absolutely necessiry.
An Hon. MEMBER said, that he was not inclined
to join in the cry that either the House or the )14d-
vernmcnt was indifferent tO tt.;. distress of the
country. Ho holed; however, that the House would
"sot alloW things to go on much longer in their
present condition ; for he really believed that the
country was retrograding, and that all property was
rapidly depreciating.
Sir R. VYVYAN could not forbear front alluding
to a fiatess---and rensiderhig the nature of the present
Gos'erbtlabint, he was entitled to call it a fiat,—
which had been issued by the head of the present
Ministry. It would appear from that fiat, that he
had given notice of his motion as a motion con.
nected with the currency of the country. Now he
had done no such thing, but he made no hesitation
in aveting that he considered that the withdrawal
of the one pound notes from circulation had pro-
duced a great effect in creating the existing distress.
Distasteful as that doctrine might appear to Gentle-
men in that House, he knew that there were thou-
sands out of it %rhos fully agreed with him as to its
correctness, persons who resided in all parts* the
sountry, and some of them even in London itself.
We have been told from 1797 to the present year,
we have been going upon a false system of credit,
and that we are only just now returned to a whole-
some state. We have been told that the state cur-
rency, by which he supposed was to be understood
gold, and the paper of the Bank of England, was as
extensive now as it was before 1797. Surely, surely,
when the population had increased as it has done,
and when its trade and commerce were stated to be
so much extended, the same quantity of state cur-
rency was not deemed sufficient for the present
year, as was deemed sufficient for 1797 ? lie was
afraid, that if it bad riot been for the false system of
credit, as it was now the fashion to call it, the laurels
of Salamanca, and of Vittoria, and even of Water-
loo, would never have been the meed of those who
now wore them ; and that even Great Britain her-
self would not have been the country which he
was still proud to say she was. He was con-
vinced, that if it had not been for the system of
credit, we should have been in a very different situa-
tion even from that in which we were now placed.
It was not his intention to have entered into this
question on the present occasion. If he conceived
that the session would last another month, he would
renew his former notice of [Potion; nay, if he were
certain that the House would sit only 1-1 days
longer, he would undertake, if a Committee were
granted him, to prove that a cause for our national
distress existed, and that a sufficient remedy might
be applied to it by Parliament. He had never
pledged himself to state what the nature of that
remedy was; all he had said was, that a remedy
might be found fol. it. You may look to the causes
of the distress for a remedy; but it is too much to
suppOse that any individual can point out what that
remedy is, when so many eases are stated for that
distress. In fact, in trade at present there was ge-
nerally no profit; and without meaning to stick per-
tinaciously to any particular remedy, he confessed
he saw no hope of improvement but by some.ause-
'jointed system of paper currency, which, by supply-
ing the public exigencies, would revive _trade, and
give it the same auspicious advantages under which
this country had heretofore flouriAel He was
himself perfectly disinterested in this suggestion, for
be was not in any way connected_ with the country
bankers, of the abuse of whom he wished to say one
word, although he had no earthly connection with
one of them. That country bankers might have
been often actuated too much for their own indi-
vidual advantage he could easily believe, but he
also knew that they had been eminently serviceable
to people in trade generally. In 1824 and 1825,
when the country wal, deluged with bank-notes,
there were no complaints against them : then there
was no accusation of their mode of conducting busi-
ness. On the contrary, nothing was talked of
but the general prosperity, which nobody lauded
higher than the Chancellor of the Exchequer. But
at the end of 1825, when some banks stopped
payment, through over-issues, and when a run upon
them became so general, that there was no knowing
who could have weathered the storm had the panic
lasted many days longer, then it was that the cry
against country ibankers was raised, and it was that
their whole system was suddenly and impetuously
denounced. With reference to the present state of
things, all he would ask was, was it decorous in
Parliament to separate without an inquiry into the
distress which was so generally pressed upon them
by petitioners ? Should it be said that those who
were selected by the greatest nation in the world to
guide their affairs, were ready to overlook inquiry,
and abandon their legislative functions ? They had
been told both by the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
and the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Peel),
who had admitted the prevailing
.distress, that the
vessel of the State was not permanently injured, but
would soon right herself. Why not prove how this
could be done in a Committee of Inquiry ? As far
as in him lay, he had sought that inquiry, nor was
he responsible because the opportunity was denied
him. Every day his notice stood on the paper
three weeks ago, and lie could not bring it on : then
came Easter week, when he was plainly told that
gentlemen could not be brought to relinquish the
sports of the field to attend the vital interests of
their country. He hoped his forebodings from the
present signs of the times would prove erroneous;
but if they were afflicted with the visitation -of a
bad harvest, if gold continued to be exported, and if
the country were left at the mercy of a 51. Bank-
note circulation merely, then he feared a concate-
nation of circumstances would precipitate a crisis
upon the kingdom, the issue of, which rielnust be'
a bold man who could contemplate without dis-
may.—(Hear, hear.)

Mr. Secretary PEEI. could not help thinking
that the presentation of a petition afforded a most
inconvenient occasion for the discussion of such
subjects as those which had been introduced ; and,
therefore, that it would not be expedient on his part
to enter into a lengthened consideration of those
subjects. He was bound, however, to say that the
Hon. Baronet, the Member for Cornwall, was by no
means responsible for not having brought forward
the motion on the state of the country of which he
had given notice. He (Mr. Peel) regretted very
much that the. Hon. Baronet had not had an oppor-
tunity of making his motion ; and he believed that
the failure in making a House on the day appointed
was entirely accidental. It had certainly been out
of the Hon. Baronet's power to submit his motion
to the House on any subsequent day. With respect
to Epsom Races, he could assure the Hon. Baronet,
cathuatschewi(lyMtih%
e House Peel had never alleged them as a
should not transact public
business. Nay, it happened oddly enough that
the House was engaged on one of the prin-
cipal days of those races in the discussion, on a
petition, of subjects similar to those on which
the present conversation was taking place, up
to so late an hour as four o'clock in the morning.—
The Hon. Member for Lincoln had entirely misap-
prehended him (Mr. Peel), if he supposed that it
was his intention to laugh at the questions of so
serious a nature. He hoped that he was the last
person in the world to treat such questions with
levity or ridicule. The fact was that he had mis-
taken the object of the Hon. Member for Lincoln,
and had thought that he intended to make a humo-
rous speech.—(A laugho—.He waa far from deny-
ing the existence of distress. In many parts of the

country ; distress waS Severe, and was acemn.
panied by great privation and suffering, and ho
deeply. regretted it. Particularly in the district
from which the petition had been prevented by the
Horn Met to proceeded was the distress great. He
doubted, indeed, if any other part of the kingdom
had suffered so much from the effect which the in-
troduction of machinery had had on the hand-looms
of the weavers, as that district. --It was impossible
to look at the efforts of the population in that
district to live; and at the imidequacy of
their wages; without painful commisseration.—
But he (Mr. Peel) very mulch feared, that while
the existence of severe distress was admitted;
it must also be admitted that in the Complicated
relations of society it With impossible to apply a
satisfactory remedy. He Was convinced that on
Mature reflection the Hon. Baronet, the Member for
Cornwall, would see that the solution of a rmehe-
inatical problem was a thing entirely different from
the administration of practical relief in a case such
as that in question. Those persons must not be
supposed to be indifferent to the distress, who were
adverse to the pulley of entering upon the enquiry
tecommended by the other side of the House. They
felt that unless they could be pretty confident that
such an enquiry would be productive of a satisfac-
tory result, it might aggravate the evil which it was
intended to diminish. The Hon. Member for Aber-
deen had dedared that there Were at least two sub-
jects which ought to be fully investigated before the
separation of Parliament—namely, the Corn Laws,
and the question of Emigration. Now, really, if
there were any two topics which during:the last
four years had occupied 'the attention of Parliament
more than any others, they were precisely those
which the Honourable Member for Aberdeen had
described as demanding enquiry. The Corn Laws
the Honourable Member for Aberdeen had himself
brought under the consideration of the House but a
short time ago, when Idle subject was fully discussed.
The Hon. Member had himself made a speech on
the occasion which lasted three hours and three-
quarters, and to which he (Mr. Peel) had listened
with great attention. The Hon. Member's propo-
sition was to substitute a fixed duty on foreign corn
for the present scale of duties; but the House did
not agree with him on the subject. Constant fluc-
tuations on such a subject were most injurious.
What advantage could accrue to the country, if, on
every question such as that of the Corn Laws, the
legislation were never allowed to be settled even for a
single year? Having made an experiment respect-
ing it last year, was it desirable for the House to
pledge itself to enter into an enquiry on the subject
next year ? Were such questions to be always at
the mercy of any man who chose to get up and agi-
tate them, and propose that they should be un-
settled ? If, whenever distress existed in any parti-
cular place—distress attributed to machinery, or the
importation of foreign wool, or the system of corn
laws—an enquiry was immediately demanded, there
would be an end to all confidence, and no one would
venture to embark his capital in any commercial en-
terprise. He must protest, however, against an un-
willingness to enter into such enquiries being consi-
dered as an insensibility to distress. With respect
to the existing distress, he must say that he did not
take so gloomy a view of the subject as some Hon.
Gentlemen seemed disposed to take. He could not
allow that the capital of the country was daily di-
minishing. Still less could he allow that our com-
merce was carrying on by the application of capital
from which the capitalist received no return. Such
might be the case for a single year; but when he heard
the same thine•stated fur eight or ten years, his answer
was, that under such circumstances the capital would
be withdrawn. Against the allegation that the capital
for the country had diminished, he would state one
strong fact. In the year 1815 (a period when the
currency of the country was increased by a piper
circulation), the rental of the county of Lancashire
was valued, for the purpose of determining the con-
tributions to the .county rate. That valuation was,
'he believed, perfectly fair. By some persons, how-
ever, it had been considered unfair, and another
valuation had taken place last year for the same pur-
pose. The valuation of the rental on land and on
the manufacturing establishments of Lancashire, in
1815, amounted to three millions. Last year the
valuation, although the improvement in the currency
would have a tendency to diminish the nominal amount,
was four millions. That fact he opposed to the
statement that the manufactures and the agriculture
of the country were carrying on at a positive loss.
He repeated, however, that he did not deny the ex-
istence of distress—distress occasioned by the un-
equal distribution of wealth, by the improvements in
machinery, by the progress in mechanical skill, and
by many other and complicated causes ; but he was
persuaded that any attempt to legislate with respect
to them would only have the effect of aggravating
the evil.

Mr. ATWOOD would not enter into the ques-
tion of whether the existing distress had or had not
been exaggerated; but of this he was sure (and he
would appeal for the truth of the declination to
every lion. Member who was conversant with the
subject), that the present condition of all the great
branches of our trade and manufactures was such,
that they could not be sustained for five years longer
and were, in fact, rapidly verging to destruction.
When that situation of the capitalists of the coun-
try was considered, in combination with the situa-
tion of the millions of labourers who depended upon
those capitalists for employment, the contemplation
was an awful one. He did not impute blame to one
Member or another, for not having brought the sub-
ject forward ; but he thought that its not having
been brought forward was a reproach to the House
of Commons itself, and a proof that it was an inef-
ficient body, and incompetent to discharge the great
duties of legislation. With the elements of pro-
sperity which this country possessed in its capital
and in the industry of its population, why should
these things be ? Under any circumstances, the
House of Commons ought to have relieved itself ,
from the imputation of being their cause.
Mr. HUSIUSSON said, in every word which
had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend with respect
to the principle which ought to influence the House
in the institution of any solemn inquiry into the
state of the country, and also with respect to that
state, he fully concurred. He could not agree with
the Hon. Member for Cornwall that the state of our
fore4m.trade was no criterion of the growth of our
industry. It was too much, when it was proved
that there was no diminution in our foreign trade or
navigation, to turn short and deny the importance
of the fact, and allege that our ships were sent to
sea merely because they would rot if they were not
kept afloat. He would tell the Hon. Member for
Cornwall, however, that there was evidently a great
increase even in that part of our trade which that
lion. Baronet seemed alone to value—the home
trade. There was undoubtedly a great improvement
in agriculture, both in this country and in Ireland.
Yet we continued to import corn. What could that
arise from but an increase of consumption ? and
that increased consumption could proceed only from
an increase in the home demand for our manufac-
tures. The Honourable Baronet asserted that our
merchants sent their ships to sea, because they
thcught it better that they should be afloat than
rotting in harbour. But it was unfortunate for the
Hon. Baronet's argument that more new ships were
building than ever. According to the Hon. Baronet,
the ship-builders must be labouring under some
strange delusion, to go on building ships at a period
when the owners of the ships already built were
losing by them. But, as his Right Hon. Friend had
justly observed, it was impossible that these com-
plaints, which had been thus continued for 13 or 14
years, could be well-founded; or the country could
not go on at all. It was the same in France. •Trade'
and manufactures there were represented to be in
great distress. But new works, new roads, and other
evidences of the benefits which a country derived
from being in a state of peace and protection, were
manifesting themselves in every quarter. In his
opinion it was not in the power of an honest Legis-
lature to apply a remedy to the existing evil; and
the remedies which he. had heard mentioned were,
he thought, calculated to aggravate that evil, and

-I.

ultimately to involve t country in a convulsion of
property, and even, perhaps, in a convulsion of her
institutions.
Mr. MAXWELL strongly recommended that the
taxation on the necessaries of life should be dimi-
nished, and a tax laid on property.
Sir G. PHILLIPS deprecated the idea of intro-
ducing a paper currency in Manchester. He saw no
signs of a depreciation of capital, and saw every pros=
pct of a relief to the country in the opening trade to
the East Indies.

General GA S COYNE supported the petition, and
expatiated upon the general distresses of the country.
Mr. D. WHITTLE HARVEY could not pos-
sibly sufftir the present opportunity to pass of ex-
pressing his sentiffients upon What was tt very mate-
rial feature in the inclinations of the House upon
this subject. The House had expressed its opinion,
and they had been reiterated in discussions, and
against them he now felt it is duty to enter his pro-
test. Every individual in the House was prepared
to admit the existence of extreme distress more or
less modified, yet no remedy could be assigned—no
remedial or palliative measure whatever could be
devised with which the House would concur. It
was idle to pretend that the country demanded in-
quiry. Petitions and motions for inquiry were a fal-
lacy. The country demanded no inquiry; it had
had inquiry enough, and if the House had not ar-
rived at a conviction of the causes of the existing
distress and its remedies, all he could say was that
there was not a man in England out of the House
—not a man of common sense or common ho-
nesty,—who was not convinced, and thoroughly
convinced. The sense in and out of the House
were distinct. The whole country demanded
a diminution of taxation, and a mutation of its
nature.—(Hear, hear.)—He would maintain, that it
was an absolute impossibility for the country to go
on under the pressure of a war scale of expenditure
—a weight of taxation, and with a contracted peace
currency. It was absolutely necessary for Ministers
to do one of two things. NVas it posSible that they
Could say that the expences of Government could
Hot be carried on under the enormous sum of
seventeen or eighteen millions per annum ? This
would outrage the sense of the country, and it
would be to deny the experience of all other coun-
tries as well as the history of their own. The
House had been told that the Finance Committee
was to explore the resources of the country with a
view to relieve its burthens. The whole country
had been led to entertain sonic hopes of this Finance
Committee, and those hopes had been strengthened
by the fair manner in which it bad been selected.
It had been composed of gentlemen of all parties,
and of all sentiments—of persons intimately ac-
quainted with finance, and who possessed the con-
fidence of the country. But what had been the re-
sult ? The Government had rendered its labours
nugatory, and at last, after all the expectations of re-
lief, the country found the Committee was suppressed.
He wss surprised that the Hon. Member for Aber-
deen (Mr. Hume) bad not divulged to the House the
causes of the failure of that Committee. Such an
exposure would have surprised the country after it
had been induced to believe that the Committee
must eventually lead to many substantial and prac-
tical benefits The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
the Member for Liverpool (Mr. Huskisson) had said
that every remedy which hail been proposed for the
evils of the country was pregnant with mischief,
and a road to the subversion of the institutions of
the country. Under this excessive apprehension for
the institutions of the country the people were to see
every valuable institution perverted, invalidated, or
in its essence destroyed. Was the country to be
told by the Right Hon. Gentleman that it was at
the maximum of taxation ?—(Hear, hear.)—lf so,
why did the Right. Hon- Gentleman support the ap-
pointment of the Committee; and why did he lead
the country into such expectations from its labours ?
Petitions were presented to the House for a return..
to a paper currency, for a repeal of the Corn Laws,
fur a metallic currency; but he only wished that the
country would see its own interests, and combine
towards one great uniform object—a system of rigid
economy. Some complained of the Poor Laws;
for his part, he slid not see why the tithe system
should not be revised. It could not be concealed,
that when any measure was brought forward in that
House which had for its tendency a diminution of
expellee, all who could Teak about the Corn Laws,
or make long speeches about- the currency or the
silk trade, walked out of the-House or opposed it.
He was astonished'at the plea urged against this pe-
tition—that it was too late in the Session to do
good upon such subjects. Was it too late to do
good ? He could say that it was not too late in the
Session to do evil.—(Hear, bear.)—Within a few
days a Bill of the most objectionable nature had been
carried through the House. He alluded to a Bill
which was in itself of the most objectionable nature,
and its object was to support the Worst parts of a
Court which was the greatest infliction upon the
country. He alluded to the Ecclesiastical Court
Bill. When private interests were to be promoted,
no period of the Session was too lute; but when any
great measure for the relief of the country was to be
pursued, the pretence was, that the Session was too
fur advanced to do any good. It was only by the
people coming to the House unanimously for the re-
duction of taxes that any good could be effected.
Mr. SADLER explained.
Mr. MABERLY considered the Government
pledged to carry on the reforms which they had
taught the country to expect from the Finance
Committee.
Mr. ROBINSON said, that owing to what had
been stated relative to the shipping interest, he had
provided himself with certain tables which he would
read to the House.—(The Hon. Member proceeded
to read a short numerical statement of the shipping
employed in Great Britain.)
Mr. P. THOMSON did not mean to defend the
statements of the Right lion. Gentleman ; but the
Hon. Member opposite had really not done justice
to them when he referred only to the number of
ships, and not to their tonnage. The amount of
tonnage engaged was the best criterion of the state
of the shipping interest. He knew that interest
laboured under disadvantages; but while there con-
tinued to be new ships built, and capital employed
in the building of them, he must say it was a proof
that the statement that capital could not be em-
ployed on ships, with the chance of obtaining a re-
turn, was unfounded.
The petition was ordered to be printed:— •
Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from the
cotton weavers of Wigton, in Cumberland, complain-
ing of distress. The petitioners stated that they
were compelled to work for fourteen hours a day,
and could only obtain, at an average, ss. or 6s. per
week for their labour. _

Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from the
Master, Wardens, and Corporation of Cutlers in
Allerton, respecting the trade to India.
Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from
certain inhabitants of the City of Glasgow respect-
ng the administration of justice in Scotland, and
complaining that in the course of certain criminal
proceedings the Courts had gone into the investiga-
tion with closed doors.
Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from a
number or persons who had been educated at the
College of Clonbroose, in the county of Kildare—a
College which was under the direction of Jesuits.
This petition might to have been presented by him
while the Bill which had recently passed had been
in progress through the House. It contained the
strongest testimony of the tiaiform good conduct of
the tutors at that College—of their fidelity to their
Sovereign—their attachment to the Constitution—
to their excellent principles, moral and religious, and
their respect for the laws.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN INDIA:

Air. BROUGHAM presented a petition from
the Refugees for Debt in Chandernagore, in ,he
Presidency of Bengal, praying for an alteration of
the Law of Debtor and Creditor. He observed
that since this petition had been signed, an Act had
been passed which be believed, to a certain de-
gree, adopted the recommendation in the petition.
Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from

Mr. .antes Craigden, who co'mplained halll/15
been refused a license as a victualler for a house NO:.
Vauxhall.
Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition fit
Mr. Valentine Blake, formerly a Member of th"e
i
House for the town of Galway, complaining a be
inadequacy of the Bill for the regulation of the toll_
of Galway, and praying Parliament to give to turt
Chamber of Commerce, and to a reasonable nuinbe,
of the inhabitants of that town, a concurrent joie
diction with the Magistrates.
Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition trdijil
Mr. James Forrester, of Brampton, in Cumberls!"
complaining of ninny local and personal grievance'
in the collection of the poor's rates. The o°l3i
Member then observed, that being in possession .°-
the House, he would mike this opportunity of
.„r"
reeling a misapprehension of what had fallen filr;
him on a late occasion with respect to the Fonfid'Ll
Hospital. His authority was extremely srui.ll;-uu,
as he underutood it had been referred to on acetica
of the opinions lie was supposed to have delivel
he wished to correct the error. He was stiPrt
to have complained of those who had the recllngf
merit of the Foundling Hospital, on account of tbei
having deviated from the original intention .Bcd''';
stitution of the charity, and to have urged 0101.0
recur to its original plan, and to restore it t°,
original character of a FoUndling Hospital. 11° t
this was not only not what be hail stated, but J:
the reverse of what he had stated ; for he was
fully convinced, that in having acted as the truste7i
of that charity had done, they had converted
from what would have been, in the present state
things, a positive public nuisance into a signal be
fit. If it had been continued on its original
tution, it would not have deserved the name c',"
charity ; for though its intention was benevolent, it:
operation Would hare been •most hurtful. 0..
Foundling Hospitals of Dublin and London per
their venire little better than public nuisances,
would have been most injurious if the trustees, (tufi
ra
a blind wish to adhere to the letter rather than
follow the spirit of the charity, had not madethl
alterations which the change of circumstances J!,. •
rendered necessary. Instead, therefore, it of Jamerl
that they had made those changes, he had emirr
his wish that other institutions had the same po7.
to deviate from the course first adopted. The 007,
take of what he had said had. given Orribragetst°;
many worthy persons who had been educated ct to
Foundling Hospital, and who regretted that
person should entertain an unfavourable opinion of 1.:
Another misapprehension which had occurredWiOre;
Bard to what he had said, was, that he was.a-r,,
enemy of infant schools, and in some parts of the 07011
tiy his name had been used as one of their 1:
ponents. Now it did so happen, that he wag,°,;.:
of those persons who had first established theillLer•
He remembered when his Hon. Friend the
for Midhurst, and another Hon. Friend (Mr. P'"t/'
who was not a Member (he wished he was), 'l4r
the Marquis of Lansdowne, Lord Deere, and ;
Macauley, had spent a whale day in a discussicoOlv
to that name they should give a school which that
had assisted in establishing within 1.50 yards °to
House, and after much pains therdeterMine,
adopting the name of " Infant School." HeO-4;
dotted this to show that he could not be an ene01,..d.:
these schools, and to show how completely be
been mistaken.
General GASCOYNE moved for Returnsi'l7j_,
every Seaport, of the Number of VEssels nrivigweee
by Steam, their Tonnage, and whether they IY.!:';‘'
employed in the Coasting or the Foreign Trade' 44'
Mr. LEN HARD gave notice of his • triren!iol,-;
bring the subject of Patent InVeattiena
consideration of thillianie early in the next Sel'aff-74'
Mf'llUME presented a petition from
•
Kelly, of Clipstone-street, comp] fining of The s.
,E 0
of the Law in Ireland. The petitioner litated,l7l,
in 1820 he lent to the Governor of the couillY
Kerry, who was also Custos Rolulorum, Rod Gott
of Militia in that county, a sum of 3001., and
not having received -payment in the manner' then
stipulated, he had commenced an action agabig_ill7,.
debtor inid had recovered a verdict, and tliat-eXec::
lien had been issued upou-thejudgMent„
the peculiar manner in which the .Sheriff was sitit
ted, the officer had not been able to execute U"'
process, for that be had been kept at bay and ll° -
unable to approach the castle of the individii
against %dim] the process was directed. The (Pe,
Lion was one of importance,-because, if the precrs
of the common law was not executed, the coign •
must be in a very bad state. The petitioner o'7, .
complained to Mr. Secretary Peel, and the Drltirle
Wellesley bad instituted an investigation into
matter, but the result had not been communiat,';;
to him; and lie now prayed that there might bei,
further inquiry into the subject, or that the 001.14:
would give him such relief as they might thin[
meet.
Mr. V. FITZGERALD presented Papers fee
cne of the Protectors of Slaves and others,
the measures adopted by the Government for

amelioration of the: condition of the Slaves. ,eto
Mi. EASTHOPE presented a petition l'oett
some of the claimants on Spain, statinobeirlftbel
that measures were about to be adopted, betweell
two Governments for compromising-the ansouttij:
their claims ; and if that were the case, they wiof
to lay before the House some of the particulal4,
their case. They stated, that although the lori,
now refused to recognize their claims, a large eto
tion of the money they had advanced on the ,
the King and the Cortes had been applied to to
personal expenses of the King, and that four milli be,.
of it had been employed in liquidating the old del,
E Sir T. FRMANTLE gave notice of the ibe
tention of his Noble Friend, the Member for the
comity of Buckingham, to move an alteration in
Game Laws, in the early part of next Session. e.
Mr. ROBINSON moved for certain rettirnt; cf.%
netted with the Trude of Newfoundland and
brador. •

Mr. HUME moved for an account of the:rir
penses and Charges in the case of Briscoe V.
roe, in the Court of Arches and Court of Delegr7:
distinguishing the items.
sit 4
Dr. LUSHINGTON did not intend opP° „t;
the motion, provided the returns could be made °.
but he doubted that it could be conveniently
Ile did not pretext' to deny that abuses esister,.
the Court alluded to by the Hon. Member fec Arent
Been, but it should be remembered that theii„.‘lnis
abuses in the Court of Chancery, the Courtbf D-zoy
Beuch,,and the other Courts of Law. It was
to point out those abuses, but it was not easy to;)
a remedy for them.

Mr. PERGUSSON opposed.the motion.
Sir C. FORBES expressed a hope that the f
Member for Aberdeen, seeing that 'the -settle t
House was against him, would, .for the Pm-
withdraw his motion.
After a few words from Mr. TRANI' and fir'
DAWSON • e 1.4
Mr. HUME observed, that, in making 0115 dot
tion, he meant HO attack upon any proctor, or feol ;
individual—his object was to expose the or
with a view to its correction.

The motion was then put and • d
came ~0611
Mr. HUME had another motion to pr°Y
t r
which, however,
it was not his intention w 4 bio
against the inclination of the lion. Member an of of ,
Learned Friend, as he had not given him nut'c; or,
it; it was a return of the items of a ohkirg- 0 ,
3381. 18s. lad., together with a further char? •
431. O. 30., made by Messrs. Toiler and Su"'urt of
proceedings in the Court of Delegates and Cuti
Appeals, in the case of Pemberton and Evans el'
Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that the Partle,sitle
lulled to had undertaken to conduct the cU-41' fit► the
oat a shilling profit ; and the money charge°
bill was actually rianiey out of pocket.
111 r. HUME was still anxious for an inquirP the -
After a few words from Mr. D. GitAtt34l,
motion was put and carried.
LONDON UARBOUR BILL. • 014
On the motion of Mr. Alderman W°°'"
Lords' Amendments to .the London Harbour
were read and agreed to.
FEES IN TUE KING'S BENCH- „,/
Colonel •SIBTHORPE, in the *blocs v'

Noble Friend `tire for Carlow, -presented a
petition from certain persons complaining of Fees of
the King'e Bench Prison.
The House adjourned at five minutes past Nine
till Friday next.

PRICES OF STOCES THIS
. Rank stock ....... ....212 11
3 Pei Cent. Red. ........ 87% 4 Per Cent. Cons. .......... shut
§,k; per Cent................. --
4 1/itto Red. ........... . ......... 9634%
per Cent. ........ shut
,IllAJitto, hisg; .......... ..... 1u3304
oitto Scrip ............. —.—•
'link L. Ann. ......... 1932 7-16
India Stock . ......... shut
Ditto Bonds. ..
53 5t pm.