The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-31 00:00:00

atiou which, besides giving us this surplus, enables us to take
precautions for the security of the country, and to remit that
part of our taxation which ha; appeared to us to press
most upon the labour and industry of the community.
Having a surplus, we feel that we cannot apply it better than
by taking precautions against eventual anti p. ssible danger;
and the increase of the votes for the Navy and Ordnance and
the vote proposed with respect to the harbaura of refuge sh.,v-i
that, while we attend to the claims of the people to the remis-
sion of taxation, we have not neg'ected the precautions which
we think necessary for the safety of the eountry. With respect
to the harbours of refuge, this is the first year that any pr.tpo•al
has linen made. The vote is purposely small, and I hope we
shall not be driven forward too fast. Nothing can be more
important than that we should take the be.t opinions a, to the
proper mode of securing the object. I take it for granted that
the House is satisfied of the necessity which exists lot those
' harbours of refuge which repeated naval commissions have re.„
commended The subj.-et has undergone sueh full investig.-
tion that there can be no nece-sity for any further inquiry.
Dover, Portland, and Harwich are the sites which, as the re-
sult of rep-ated inquiries. are pointed out as the most appro-
priate for harbours of refuge. We hare felt it our duty with
inspect to each of hose places to take the oriaiens of the
most eminent civil and military engineers as to the best
m ale of insurin, to the catintry the ga eatest permanent advan-
tage as the remit of the nomey esjiended. With re poet to
all these places, and especially Dover, it is of the utmost im-
portance that we should have the opportunity of profiting as
far as possible by the opinions of tho.,e tsho a-e best floalifie% to
give advice on the subject. These various matters are occupy-
ing the serious attention of the Government, and if my answer
to the Noble Lord be not entirely satisfactory, 1 entreat the
House to bear in mind that I brand in a position in witell
must appeal to their confidence, because I cannot state the rat-
t•cular facts uj:on which my own impression, as opposed to that
of the Noble Lord, is founded.—( Cheers.. )
Lord PALMERSTON said that he had not stated that
the naval and military resources of the country. were in a less
efficient condition than at. any former period All he con-
tended for, and he did it on three or four grounds, was, that
such had been the improvement in steam navigation, that troop
might be transported from one part of the empire to another
with the utmost facility, and the economy of the military
department of the country was so much improved from what
it had been in times past. He had no intention of impeach-
ing the energy which the Government had shown in moments
of danger, but he wished to prove that the previous organisa.
lion was defective, and that it ought, therefore, to be amended.
After a few words from Sir ROBERT PEEL,
Sir C. NAPIER said that they had at present: at sea eight
sail of the line ; but they, in point of seamen, were two rates
below their proper weight.—( Hear, hear.) It was only
the other day that the Gallant Admiral opposite found it ne-
cessary to increase the number of men in those ships, and he
could not have adopted a wiser measure. The Seere-
tary at War had stated, the other night, that no difficulty
was met with in finding persons willing to enlist into the army or
into the Ordnance, but he could ;ware the House that the
greatest difficulty was found in inducing sailors to enter the
navy. The Right lion. Baronet had also spoken of the state of
their steam naval force. He could tell the Right Honourable
Baronet that in this respect they were inferior to their
neighbours on the Continent, who built their steam-vessels fur
an increased number of men and weight of metal, while they
(the British) consulted only the rate of speed in their
naval architeeture.—( Hear, hear. ) He (Sir Chat les
Napier) was glad to hear that there were 50,, 00 efficient
pensioners—men able to bear arms in the country He was glad
to hear this, because they, with a huhe training, and the
30,000, the standing army in England and Ireland, constituted
a sufficient defence against foreign inva,ion —( Hear, hear.)
The statement of the Noble Lord had take': a great weight oil
his mind.—( Laughter. )

MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
Messengers from the Lords brought up several Bills.

SU
The House then went into aPPLY. Committee of Supply.
On the motion that 80,3001. be vo:ed to defray ihe superan-
nuation of persons formerly employed
the civil departments
of the Government,
Mr. HUME advocated the improvement of the natural har-
hours of the country, that they might .f f,, a bet lice than
hitherto in the time of tsar. s thou2h he was a roan
of peace and not of war, tine h0n•0..-0 ant hf
y thou,"
ships annually entered and left our ti .r a—a number lei foot 1 y
avtoni*hing when the smallness of tier Nay taken nto
account—for which there was no 'hover protvetion in the its.
t ural harbours of the country. He hoped tnat the Governts, lit
would assist nature, and devote a sum of money to %hat he had
suggested.

Sir It. PEEL thanked the lion. Gentleman car calling their
attention to the subject. The report of the 1 will Commi.sion,
and his suggestions, should receive due attention from the
Government.

Mr. P. HOWARD wished to say a few words on the subject.,
as he had attended a deputation from the Isle of Man, whiith
had waited on the Right Honourable Baronet with
respect to improving the unprotected harbours of that island.
The authorities of that island were ready to devote a portion of
their revenues, to this object if they were supported in their
efforts by the Government. Independently of the advantages
which the construction of harbours of refuge would confer on
the shipping in that part of the empire, they would be im-
portant elements of national defence in the event of war.
Mr. 'WILLIAMS said the persons who received the vote had
in many instances rendered an important service to the country.
They had received large salaries, which enabled them to save
money, by which they might support them•elves when unfitted
for active service. Their support fell heavily upon the country.
The vote was then agreed to.
A vote of 1,850/. wars proposed for defraying the expenws
of the national vaccine institutions. It was agreed to,.
5,000/. was proposed for the Refuge fur the Destitute.
• In consequence of a suggestion made by Mr. li LIME,
Sir J. GRAHAM proposed that it should be reduced to
the usual annual amount voted, namely, 3,0001. for the bare*
purpose.

'f he vote of 3,0001. was then agreed to.
The next vote was one of 11,600/. for the Polish refugees
resident in this country.
Mr. BURT WICK did not wish to increase the number of
refugees, but thought some additional grant ought to he made.
if the Right lion. Baronet could by any remonstrance with
the French Government prevent the transrnissien of refugees
from that country to this, he thought it would be highly
desirable. It was certainly a very heavy tax t n
English benevolence, and money was expended on foreigners
to which our own poor had a prior claim, but there was no
alternative for these poor foreigners but starvation, if Parlia-
ment did not interpose.
Sir It. PEEL must decline making any remonstrance with
the French Government on the subject, and he thou..iht there
was some compensation for the expenditure in the reasons as-
signed for the refugees coming to this country. England
was the only country in the neighbourhood of
France to which refugees would be hdtnitt ed after
being expelled from France, anti
.the refugees themselves
preferred England to any other country, "as being able
to enjoy the greatest toleration and liberty there."—( Cheers.)
However, France was at present encumbered with 11,000 of
these refugees—this country had 12,000, so that, in fact, the
number was nearly divided.

Mr. J. ABEL SMITH said, that it might not be out of
place in Urn to remark upon the intelligence—the melancholy
intelligence that had reached this city to-day, of another alarm-
ing fire in Quebec, by which 1,3410 houses were burned and
thousands of poor people reduced to du tifiltion and suffering.
He wished to knew whether it was in the co, t, mplat ion of the
Government to alleviate the sufferings of these p peeple.
Sir R. PEEL said he had learned. with the utmo-t regret,
that another calamity had befallen on a previous similar
occasion. The Government then hail done alt that was
possible for the sufferers, and he felt c.oifid,lit that on thin
occasion similar care arid sympathy would be evinced. The
people of this country had exerted ifiem•elves in the most
creditable manner, and he trusted that .a like benevolent
anxiety would be now evinced. He thought, lio., ever, that
Parliament should show its sympatli) with their suffering
fellow-subjects, and he would pro, ei.s. a vote for that purpose
on a future occasion—the vote would, he th•oil:tht it right to
be not so much for the pu. pi,- of raising a sum as to
mark the sense of tive, House.—( Hear hear. )
The vote vca.- then agreed to.
A vote of 4,932/. was proposed to pay ti,e pensions of minis-
ters belonglng to the dissen.ine congregain us which had been
formerly included in the civil list.
Mr. HINDLEY proposed an amendment. t r the effect that
5,665/. paid to Independent Alinistern be withdrawn.
Sir. CARDWELL opposed the amendment and supported
the original vote.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the original motion 52
For the amendment
Majority against the amendment —44
A vote of 2.1461. was then proposed, to defray charities,
bounties, and other charges in Scotland.
W ILLIAMS objected to the vote.
The vote was agreed to without a division.
A vote of 1,329/. was agreed to for defraying the expenses o
the House of Industry in Dublin.
2,50 W. was agreed to for the Western and Lock Hospitals.
1,5001. was voted to defray the expenses of Stephens's
Hospital. _ _

5(10/. was voted for the expenses of the Hospital of Incurables.
On the vote of 35,264/. being proposed for Non-conforming
and other ministers in Ireland,
Mr. SHARMAN CRA WFORD. according to notice, op-
posed the vote on account of its smallness, and proposed that nu
less than 366,000/. be devoted to these clergymen.
Mr. WILLIAMS did not agree with the liberality of his
Hon. Friend, and opposed the vote on the principle that nu
class of clergymen should be paid by the State.
Mr. HINDLEY obj,eted to the vote on the same grounds,
and said that these clergymen could have very little depen-
dence on the effect of their religion on their flocks, when they
looked to the State for provision.
Mr. HUME suggested that after the passing of the vote
no new recipients should be taken on the fund.
Mr. WILLIAMS, said if the Hon. Gentleman would not
press the amendment to a division, that he would do so, as
his constituents objected to the State paying the ministers of
any religion.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the vote
Against it
Majority
On the sum of :1•2,565e being proposed for the colony; f
New Zealand,
Mr. J. A. SMITE-I asked the Right Honourable Baronet
for an explanation of the present position of the affairs of New
Zealand.
Sir R. PEEL said that this Ras not the time to enter into
a discussion of that subject. If the HonourableGentleman
was desirous to open op the matter afresh, he could have an-
other opportunity ior that purpose.
Mr. HOPE said that the present vote had nothing to do
with the matter to which the flu!.ourable Gentleman alluded.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that this was the last colony which
should be dependant upon them for support. If a little care
were taken in its management, such a vote as the present would
be altogether unnecessary. It would be able to maintain itself.
He would recommend, in New Zealand, what he would call .1
by properly political surve • appointed persons, and in ever,
district so surveyed, a power to be granted to every one,
whether white or black, to register himself, with the view of
voting, and when the country was so parcelled out into
counties, and not into states, he would tecomniend a general
representative syitent. Let not this great question resolve
itself into a petty squabble between the Colonial Government
and the New Zealand Company, but exercise a broad and
comprehensive principle ; and then there would be an end to
those painful discussions which had lately occupied the time
of the House.
Mr. HUME said that the way in which our colonists had
been treated all over the world re quired that Parliament
should pass an Act declaring what rights should he enjoyed ty
the settlers in our colonies. Ile se. °fleeted the high hope
that were excited, a few years ago, when that colony was flit
settled, and he was much glieied since to find the evil•
which had clouded them, and disks; pointed so many.
the mischief, all the petty titian ening and division
in the colony had arisen from the meddling of the Home-office.
He thought that no good could take place until the rights of
the colonists were properly defined, and a settled form of go-
vernment conceded. The United States of America managed
their colohics in a different way. When they colonised a tract
of country, they had it surveyed and sapped out, and the su-
tlers had a valid title given to them to the tracts of land allotted.
Had this been done in New Zealand, a great deal of the evils
which had overlalsen that colony would have, beet, R,,,:d,(1.
implored the Right Hon. Baronet to interfere and snake a pro-
per settlement of the question, as no one trusted the N ble