The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-13 00:00:00

RAILWAY COMMITTEE.

(THIS DAY.)
Sub-Committee No. 2, met this morning. Tfie Committee con.
sisted of Sir J. Y. Buller, chairman, Mr. F. •Mackenzie, the
O'Conor Don, Mr. Walker, and Mr. E. Yorke.
The Committee had the.petitions of the following Railway Bills
before them, viz. :
Dundalk and Enniskillen Railway.
South. Eastern Railways.
Brighton and Chichester Railway (Portsmouth Extension).
London, Chatham, and North Kent.
DUNDALK AND ENNISKILLEN RAILWAY.
This petition was unopposed. The Bill is for a line sixty-two
mites in length, the cast of which is 750,0001. Engineer Sir J.
M'Neil, Standing orders complied with.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT'
(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAGER took the Chair at Twelve o'clock. iof
wantOn the motion of Lord G. SOMERSET the House
Committee on the
RAILWAY CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION -- n
tdies▪ e
Lord G. SOMEItSET said he wished to postpone tbe7v„issa nit
which gives a railway company power to vary its fares 7000
under certain circumstances, till a future day. He didol/1
commodate his Right Hon. Friend the Vice.Presidentma ,0 '-
of Trade. CIS°
.4
Mr. RICE suggested that some portico of the • - eld
.0 pe
should be struck out, in order that the power and disertea,
to a railway company to raise their tolls, should be resnt"Theprst
Mr. HATTER expressed himself favourable to the en 110110!
the real object of which, it would seem, was to coronsofe,
companies to abandon the old system of increasing the,floy
tots on those portions of the railway which had oris':do-
most in the construction, and required an additional e'r
the present workings. id
r tee/'
s„ ae
Mr. W. MARTIN said that he thought it was " beutPfe
there was an increase in the original cost of the railwal,,A
dirtily where there was a continual expense on a particular pee;
line, that there should be an increase in the charge.
.001
an instance in one line with which he was acquainted. our
such a r se that the gradient was, he believed, 1 in 37sters St'
that particular portion of the line it was necessary " osOri,
tionary engine. He did conceive that, in this instance, oil
pany were entitled to an extra charge. They might sal Dere
was a particular case, and perhaps hereafter such eartieee r
might be provided for by clauses in the special Acts. 13,04'
thought the matter was worthy of attention, while connot,*
general Bill, by which those special Acts were to be regunlereeeit
South-Eastern Company, ire their negotiation with the beenv,
Company, deemed it of importance to avoid the toll, 01"4000;
not conceive why they should now throw aside all 11Vieeiti
they had then used, and change their opinion upon sn'-iesrers,
this. There was a particular tunnel on the Brighton itio,
the Godstone Tunnel, which had been formed at alyn_.„,
expense. There was also a viaduct on the Soutte'SP; of
near Folkestone, some of the piers of which were lel re PTA
feet high. Now he thought, from the expensive nen:4 hod
works, there ought to be some increase of charge, ensa-erigela
see what pretence there was for charging 10s. on the Of%
line, while the South-Eastern Company only charged bt'ariser`
Folkestone to Reigate—.a similar distance. For these 7;10
thought that an equal mileage system was a right Prisoyei
adopt on those lines where the company had been put to;tioi'
nary expense; but in those instances where the Weal elit
been increased, he thought that there ought also to he s". eel:,
of charge. Perhaps these particular instances bie.„.'"
be met by clauses in the Special etenl'aaatoin
thought it requisite to draw the attention of the Caristni".;a,
points. He thought the companies ought to be proteewasbn•
by the clause they would be ; for he felt the public wee '
protect themselves, ttet
Mr. TArroN EGERTON said, it appeared to hirn,looo
view of the case which had just been taken was, in sortie log!!
incorrect; but yet that something of the kind ought to iee
s! e slv
so as to carry the object of the clause into effect. ';0001°
it would tell heavily against the lower classes. U e
en the
were obliged to adopt equal rates, they could not give lbesoritea
able terms tdthirat-class passengers wheal theyall desirell t° w
the neighbourhood of large towns this would proves great faue
The Manchester and Leeds Company, he knew, were aalbtst,
s
commodate the third class passengers, and if they couldki o
be_ar
remuneration for expenditure by other means, they weu_sse
to do so. He did not see why the principle of different re-
had been used by canals, should not be applied to railwlioslaea
Sir H. HALFORD said, that on the Peterboroughee' ort;
a certain law the public had a right to have oxen and ihwhge 10
not only a short distance, but all the way to London; W ea I'lo
respect to other parts of the country they Were unee'd Ole
limitation. Now, he thought the principle which they ht.l.bg
on that caaal, which was that of public convenience, rme
plied to railways. He should support the amendment' as
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET said that this WeeweiciP-0
proposal. It had often been mooted in Committees' ied leo§
been very fully attended by Members of that Housesitae te,
those Committees it had been decided that the Prinft'ses,o
clause was a good one. By the arrangements into whie'tro F' of
Eastern Company had entered, coal was carried eheePer id 0
to Tunbridge than ever it had been before; and no one "oftes'iol
that the effect had been very much to reduce the Prieeeressno
Tunbridge. Passengers from London to Tunbridge el,Mortof.
for the same rate as they were to a place ten miles ie dtle:ao
so that the charge for travelling forty miles was the same, eel 0:4
conceived was a great advantage to the public. TN °: the Po.
equalise the charges ; and the mover of the amerllinee.;eiliitl
Member for Dover, might as well say that a person tr”calioof
hundred miles should be carried at the same rate as °D estlite
travelled ten. He really thought that if the CornPeeloseress
stirred in the matter the House would have been better 70sl'is
wards the propositiun, and he hoped the clause would b,ge, ,e,
Mr. BROTHERTON said that he could not exee',„ioel Pot
the principle that the public should he carried ferl/ ceoleeioel
same charge as they could travel thirty. As an top/1
posing a colliery, which was largely used by the public, "0,
thirty miles on a line of railway, and another should bevis!j,
at forty. The difference of charge between thesetwo Ole° 1e el
yet something in the nature of the amendment ought te'tbegoa
But to keep out a certain colliery, you put on double.noefeeie,
the ten miles; and although it appeared to be adde7yelef
the public in the first instance, it might prove deublissaos dyer
el
geous in the end. It was absolutely necessary that Pe'cii beet"
warehouses in the neighbourhood of a railroad ah°°,e. gitellAe
right of sending their goods by the call at a uniform red` las rissi
the case upon the canals. Any person could See ape ofd
by the Bridgewater Canal upon paying ,aag teal),
rate of toll. If the railroads had the power of refuse
goods, or of charging what they pleased for differentst;ic to;j",
line, they would have a complete monopoly, and be rgs tocied
any man who expended his capital in building we'a.t di oof
neighbourhood. He admitted that there would beg",,,,
in framing a clause to guard against the inconvenie°
thought it was desirable to take it into consideration. soli tg •
Mr. DARBY agreed with the Hon. Member nor
co* '
there would be great difficulty in properly framing :1"
had been upon a Committee in which the subject be'
discussed, and he was of opinion that it would give the— :
dolt
a great advantage over the puolic if this amendment foeriegi.
An Hoe. Menisait said they could not charge more
maximum.
maximum.
,a) 1 P",'
Mr. DARBY—They could not charge more .--mnareerer
mum, but they would raise the toll all through tbe___A— 101
would vote against the amendment; but he b°,F7OOll
Friend (Lord G. Somerset) would introduce an euara,
clause, to meet the views of the Hon. Member for saw' ror-eof
Lord M A FISHA M was in favour of the amendineet.Poo)
the Hon. Member for Dover, as it would havethe effeelesi
the monopoly which railways were acquiring at the tape,.
canal companies. In his county, what was called n; ries fd
tion" of the South-Eastern Railway with the Med.'"
aoodP4
Company was, in fact, to raise the price of carrying 'we "
instance, the price of coals had risen since the °Pfuetd•
railway, and such would be the case throughout the v" • oat
would support the amendment. rso
Mr. MORRISON also supported the amendmen-en d 01/
that it would be a great protection to the public, ... 01 f
would be no diteculty to the companies In
They had almost suppressed every other means of sen
it was necessary to guard against their monopoly. la (SSC 01.,
Mr. ENT WISLE sail that some gentlemen'
ibeaensqlew
questions connected with this subject, dealt with .'its 01#
railway companies were something else than carrocoopse'ovi
were coal-init.e proprietors, or something else .tsfbenras
tablished for the accommodation of the public. ale - ae?
to support the clause. s ea.
Mr. PLU PTRE said that' the fact was, the.Lbw
ri
panics, almost invariably, did act in sonic ether ri9eay epee....o
of railway shareholders ; and by the admission Of bless stlYr-
the Member for North Lancashire, he was bound " late
ete
amendment.
Mr. HORSM AN said that, in the case of a partiewelareste .°;4114
which he was acquainted, the company charged a I°o'oll •
parts where they had to compete with the canal; b xp
the rate as soon as they got out of the competition. jt
toale
the amendment. It Wu". SO IRLord G. SOMERSET defended the clause as fAres '4O/
perfectly just for a railway company to increase tbet:aiii r.
on that portion of the line which required an adelitw'saetr"
age
the working, or which had originally cost more tban
in the construction.
.t t Pre"..:034.
Mr. GLADSTONE admitted that the law '- 8„14
was fair from satisfactory, but still all the exi'tlecisir'or
possessed the same power proposed to be given b? have 01 lel
he could see no reason why future lines should 0'
x„oefi-to IF";
advantage. In some cases individuals might be e ceor/1 00'
ship, but on the whole he thought the present system 74 y
Considerable inconvenience would be Pr''lll,,.c egu'issiefi
were to establish the principle of. char/IMO ietfeaaese,
along the whole line of railway ; but, in by
.:,
00
of this objection, the Hon. Gentleman would not gesie ifr"refF
he persisted in the amendment, seeing that if
,thev wised AO
passed before Easter the necessity for it would eel 1010 rs
arid then the same clause would be n LYN:lO.lOst jetlbi
ho 4
railway Act that came before Parliament. f esreS,de polls
see what would be the effect of an equalisation °vim 1",,.
whole line of a railway. It might be owe
. •of adele tibs
peP
that on one portion of a long line
~00ait ,
rate of charge should be reduced so as to ae‘coopempreS
public convenience; but did they think a ray/a/be, ettleecd 1/11!
consent to make this reduction if the Hon.' Mein tester
were in operation ? For instance, on the ganc.o6lll",he:
mingham line it was extremely important that tralo:Tia
stantly kept running between Manchester
date
and at low rates of fare, " to aeOnteleaerift
bouring population of the district.
choter 'opf_d
pd
Now, would it be fair for them to say to the Manche ,fies
mingham Company, " If you choose to carry l's;_earTporel
Manchester and Stockport at one halfpenny or thue`_,e le
mile, you shall not be allowed to do so, unless Yoiejeey, oilee' •
establish the same rate throughout the whole line ?..toreplAole_.:
did that, it would seriously inconvenience the oPerlosing ;:owi
whose avocations required" them to be constantllier3Y spin,,
passing between Stockport and Manchester. _ vsewel
commodate this traffic, it was necessary fur tbe: the • 117:,
to increase the fares between those portions of) ,ett,eo/ le
were better able to bear it.—(Hear, Med ertineoe
going to have a complete chain of railways fr",Thogolft:4l
north of Scotland, passing through Edinburgh, afilnvesilra▪ n
and Aberdeen. In some part of this route 11°"d is tine
aware that steam-boats were constantly plying, stile of tb.ooo ;61.
for the public convenience, that the srl'° coopen..eilee-te
of railway should be enabled to enter into by Cii'dooa
these steam-boats. Now, they could only
ddiroetl:lfroO
toc,ooV,lo!'
low rates of fares for carrying passengers
_sere a et
Aberdeen. But how could they do this if they:lol ,ece
London and Birmingham and Grand Junction airy palseSet.'„
" You shall not enter into this competition to
tel:0006 Piiis
this low rate, unless you are prepared to make qa cleat Or A!
W" q"1 • tlitr
throughout the whole of your lines." It
a.„„joireibo
mingham and Grand Junction Railway Come 10,.
agree to this proposal, and thus the public leo:Two owner,'"
and the
.boatli the ,ht
cage of this railway convenience,
secondary advantage of competing with the st 70, to
tall
,100
just mention a point which was anal3e tee- rel„00.:a,
he had mentioned. As the present rnomena__ canal !V"
a considerable, and perhaps unfair advantage, recfbein.! did
—for instance, a railway company had the Power
colon;
but the canal company had not. The cane' bot, pr-of.
wish the power to be taken away from rail"! (wired 010
Crary, they thought it an advantage which the; 001
ss 00001
themselves. Under these circumstances, sh
A tn.
amendment. to bin- ht
Mr. RICE said that he did not wig.' - bet opie 100
to the exact terms of the runendinen4
pain
that the House should confirm the general I)_..ujiris.idere
amendment sought to establish. It would beoll"..er eon-
to strike out the word either," reed leave lit '
to boola
to settle the precise terms of the clause. te In 100
Mr. HAWES said some railway companies we trAlProk o,jee
of running what were called excursion see'ioSf
others issueddaily tickets, which enable Pers°c.n.s ereerie
place to another, and return (advantage he same faille p CIO 60 1700/
no doubt that this was an to ,
but to the inhabitants of populous °"
towns it was of incalculable benefit.----(Hemercober, hr 0100
if they adopted the amendment of tie Hon.
a orillialreleti' •
they would entirely put an end to this pra•s- %ea diva
After some further discussion, the Conlin"'
1 919
there appeared
For the amendment .................. '
Against it ................................... ss" 01/
Majority against it ................. . eltbice
Lord MARSHAM moved the expulsion °l_. effect Poetry,
gether ; and a long diseussian ensued upon lb` collet`
clause would be supposed to have, in giving P
monopoly to railway companies.