The Sun.
London, England, 1829-02-16 00:00:00

SrI.P,IT OF THELONDuN JOURNALS.

(FROM THE TIMES.)
A meetinz, avowedly Of Anti-Catholics and ascendancy
men. was held on Saturday last at the Crown and Anchor,
to pet;tion against the picise measure of adjustment recom-
mendol ht- lig llajcsty to Parliament. An unknown
Barri-ter appears to have been the principal performer on
this occasion, and he acquitted himself, as is usual ‘vitlk
Orange functionaries, in a manner satisfactory enough to
thn,.• of his audience who, like the worthy gentleman,
enioe c I a perfect freedom from prejudice and selfisliness, and
labour, 'I under a mani.est redundancy of politic:al foresight

and wi-don. The Duke of Newcastle, of course, cannot
do less than return this hopeful Barrister to the House of
Commons, where Oranee eloquence is at a discount since
Sir Themae Lethbridge has come round. Mr. Hunt stood
up to speak, and though he failed in the endeavour for a
bearing, he contrived to puzzle the wiseacres, as well as
partially to soften their hostility, by a hit at the
temporal nature of the pretended religious fears of the
Church. Lord Kenyon, with whose domestic afflic-
tion eeery body must sympathize, wilt only hindered
by it from attending the above meeting in person ;
but not from visiting it in the shape of a rather
voluminous letter, wherein the Noble Lord's wits have so
deserted him, that he actually takes up once more the eh-
cunt and abandoned question of the corenation oath, which
Lord Liverpool treated with undisguised contempt, and
which the late Lord Kenyon—the father of the present
one, and not, we apprehend, a worse lawyer than his son—
assured his late Majesty George 111., was not of a nature
to interpose any obstacle to further legislation upon the
laws affecting the Catholics. There is no terror—in fact
there is nothing but matter of laughter—in attempts like
these, for a mind so resolute as flea of the Duke of Wel-
lington, or for a Minister so intrinsically powerful. His
Greer's strength is threefold. He has for him—the King ;
the whale Irish nation hut a handful of monopolists ; the
mimic body (we make no qualification) of enlightened and
distinguished Englishmen ; and, as the cementing prin-
ciple of all, he has eternal Justire. Nor will the Duke
of Wellington suffer his advantages to lie idle, or permit
those in the pay of Government to undermine its delibe-
rate policy, undertaken on clear views of the safety of the
Crown, the Church, and realm. The impudence of under-
lings affecting to be "neuter" upon a question which in-
./selves the stability of the power which appoints them, is a
little too bad, and the bold Duke has taught them better man-
ners. Ilis mace is inimitable as a State Master of the Cere-
moniee, and to we opine a certain other " Master" has
fOund him. The Mater-General of the Ordnance is quite
welcome to his neutrality, but he molt take its conse-
setencee too. " Yes ; your Lordship a.ty he neutral as
you like. But, however, Lord Viscose~ B may
vote, the King's Muster-General will be pleased to
vote in support of his Majesty's Government." By the
way, we saw some disappointed faces on Saturday, of ar-
tillery officers, who had come up from Woolwich in hopes
of hearing that Lord Bereaford's conscientious hatred of
emancipation would force him to retire, and that Lord
Rosalyn had succeeded to the Ordnance, a Nobleman whose
appnintment to the administration of that service would be
hailed with joy by every moan who takes an honest inte-
rest in its welfare. Lord Lowther will, after a certain hint,
Le cautious what he is doing, or all the Lonedale boroughs
will not prevent a fresh Commission of Woods and Forests
being made out with time characteristic promptitude of the
Premier. To those who are weak enough to suspect the
Duke of Wellington's non-accomplishment of that great
triumph to which he is now aspiring, we say, " Fear him
not : the man has a sound head, and a stout heart,
a confiding Sovereign, and England anxious for success."
To those who swish that he should fail, disreputable as is
their party. and destitute of even a single statesman, we
sae, .' What do you propose to yourselves, what will be-
come of you if the Duke of Wellington, from being
thwarted in his attempt to save the empire, should resign
his oilier., as in such a case we know that he will?
Whom will you have for Ministers? The unmixed Whigs
are all emancipators ; the mixed- Cabinets are on every
side given up, as disgraceful to their members, and ruinous
to the Commonwealth. The only unmixed Tory Govern-
ment that could be formed with the least chance of enduring
even for a fortnight, has pledged itself to an adjustment of
the Catholic claims as an inevitable policy. What, then,
would ye have? Would you bare Ireland as the is, with
a prospect of what she must lie without freedom? Would
you re-enact the penal laws in their full and pristine bar-
barism? If not, where is your third course?"
(FROM THE MORNING CHHONICLE)
The result of the Meeting at the Crown and Anchor
Tavern i n Satnrday, will teach a salutary lesson to those
who speculate on the public credulity. The metropolis is
not for No Popery vagaries. Mr. Hunt moved a very
significant Amendment, that, instead of " the Constitu-
tion in danger," they should use the word " the Tithes in
'Langer," and the Amendment was carried by a majority of
ten to one. This is as it should be. We are
far from contending that there are not people really alarmed
for the suety of the Protestant Constitution and
the Protestant religion. It is hardly possible that all the
pains taken to work on the fears of the people should not
have predneer; some effect. But, generally speaking, the
word tithes may be substituted for religion. Not that we
believe tithes will he endangered by Emancipation, though
it is clear the Clergy think go. The Protestant Church
in Ireland is not in danger from the Catholics, but from
the Protestant Landholder.. In England the Aristocracy
obtained the spoil of the Catholic Church, and possessing
the richest livings, derive far more from tithes than they
contribute to the Church. But it is otherwise in Ireland.
There is but a very small portion of the livings of Ireland
in the hands of the Landholders. The greatest number
are at the disposal of Bishops, the Crown, and Corpora-
tions. The Scotch Landholders exempted themselves
from tithes by a permanent conversion, beyond which the
income of the Clergy could not be raised ; but having
achieved this for themselves, they were too crafty
to
remain attached to a Church which held out no temporal
attractions for them, and therefore they prudently chose
the religion of England and Ireland, which would enable
them ns obtain estates for their children at the expence
of England, and more especially Ireland. They were Pres-
byterians so long as it was necessary to rid themselves of
tithes ; they became Episcopalians to share in the good
things of their neighbours. The late Primate of Ireland
was a Scotchnian, the present Bishop of Kildare (Leslie)
is a Scotchanin, and there are seldom fewer than two or
three Irish Bishops of the Scottish nation. Englishmen,
too, arc abundantly promoted to Irish Sees ; and these
Scotch and English Bishops take care to bestow the nu-
merous livings at their disposal on relations, on sons, sons-
in-law, cousins, brothers, ecc. This is a sore point with
Irish landholders, who consider the church a tax on them-
selves, for the benefit of strangers. Were Emancipation
carried, the effect would be a more intimate union between
Britain and Ireland, and a strengthening of the power of
Government. At present there is literally no Government
in Ireland, from the union of all classes of Catholics, aris-
tocracy and democracy, clergy and laity. But the Irish Ca-
tholics as such have no interest in the question of tithes any
more than Irish Presbyterians, and though Catholic land-
holders will feel on the subject like Protestant landholders,
the Catholics generally will not share the feeling. But the
security of the Irish church rests on the disposition of the
Parliament of else United Kingdom, which, we may be
sure, will never willingly part with the Irish Establisd_
went, and which will have now more power than ever.t
Had Ireland remained a separate kingdom, the Proteetan
Church would, perhaps, have been destroyed ere Omit , but
the Union has given the lrieh Church the support of the
English Church, which the English Aristocracy have
such x powerful interest in maintaining. We believe then
that the danger to tithes will be diminished, not increased,
by Emancipation. It there were only one hundred Pro-
testants in Ireland, the Church would still be maintained,
because the English Aristocracy will never abandon a tax
which yields to them more than their share of the rental of
the country, and which might be endangered by the pte-
eedent-of an Ecclesiastical Reformation in Ireland. Reli-
gion with the higher ranks is tithes. It cannot fail to have
been observed that all the agitation at present is in the
tithe countries; that the Scotch do not in the least partici-
pate in the feeling which has led in Ireland and England to
Brunswick Clubs and No Popery Meetings. No man can
suppose that the Scotch are less religious than their neigh-
bours ; but oil to feed the flame is awanting ; there is no
thing to be gained or lost ; there are no tithes ; and reli-
eions zeal without tithes is by no means unruly. Lord
Redesdale confirms us in our view by two pamphlets just
published by him, under the title of Letters to Lard Col-
eh,ester---mtrane productions inner; unquestionably, which
will amply repay the perusal. "In the eventful history,"
e les his Lordship, " of the times preceding the Revolution
(1688), from the first dawn of the Reformation in the
reign of Edward 111., and particularly from the accession
of Edward VI. and during the reign of Charles 1., the sub-
eequent, usurpation, and the reign of Charles H., we may
ee-i important lessons for our guidance in estimating the
etfecta of that dominion which reliLrions opinion!' have over
the mind of man ; and how much the zeal of opinion may
he ilflamed, and perhaps created, by the desire wealth
or power." That man who would not bestir himself for a
&00.1 living, must be strangely constituted. His Lordship
is right ; the desire of wealth iuflatues the zeal of opinion.

But we shall take another opportunity to do justice to his
Lordship's letters, which must not be disposed of by a brief
usiun.

(FROM THE MORNING HERALD.)
We would draw the public attention again to another
isgueting bear-garden scene at a meeting of creditors
,coder the bankruptcy of the notorious Rowland Stephen-
son. We can see no use upon eartk of an authority or tri-
bun il the duties of which are thus executed ; still less can
we imagine any reason why persons who have lost their money
by fraud or insolvency, or both, are to he exposed, to actual
personal danger in merely claiming, their debts. Nobody
perhaps may be to blame in this matter : but if not, at any
rate the system is; and we think it would not be beneath
the person, who is at the head of the system—viz. the
Lord Chancellor, if he were to inquire into, and reform it.
As one mode of lessening the evil, we would suggest that
debts in town commissions, like those in country ones,
might be proved by ,ffidavits sworn before a Master in
Chancery; and as the depositions in the one case hare no
4tainp,hat these affidavits also should be exempt from
duty. This, we are aware, though it might get rid of
part of the thronging and tumult at these bankruptcy
meetings, would be only a very partial remedy. Some-
thing, we should think, might be done by the Commis-
sioners to obviate the disgr ice which attaches to them by
permitting the Commission under which they act " to be
worked," as it is called, in a storm. Why do they not
manfully adjourn, or suspend their proceedings, rather than
see the Great Seal scandalised by such scenes as they, in
fact, preside over, and, therefore, so for sanction? It is
true, perhaps, that the Learned Gentlemen might lose
their tees by so proceeding ; at the sstrie time we cannot
suppose that high-minded honourable men, as their rank in
life entitles them to he considered, can put a trifling loss of
money in competition with a heavier loss of credit.

SECOND EDITION.
SUN OFFICE, Seven o'clock.

I FERIA L PAR LIAMENT

THIS EVENING.

HOUSE OF LORDS.
The Lonn CHANCELLOR took his seat at a quarter East
tire o'clock.

The Earl of ELDON presented several petitions against
further concession to the Catholics.
Lord COLCHESTER in presenting a petition took this
opportunity of stating to their Lordships that notwithstand-
ing the aauction given to the view of Emancipation to the
Catholics, his sentiments remained the same. He could not
consent in the present disturbed state to Emancipation.
Ile wished to say with respect to the Noble Duke at the
head of his Majesty's Government, that the public debt of
gratitude to him for his former excellent services was
immeasurable. Ile had hoped, in the same Noble Dukes
to have found an uneompromised and uncompromising de-
fender of the Protestant Constitution as settled at the
Reformation. But he spoke it with regret that the coun-
try had been totally disappointed, her hopes bad totally
failed. The measure recommended to hie Majesty tended
directly to overthrow the Protestant Parliament as settled
at the Revolution. The assumed principles that re-
ligious principle should not he any bar to constitutional
power, would bring into danger the Statutes of this
country. It was nevertheless with this view that they
were called upon to consider the claims of the Catholics.
It appeared to him and to the country, that the House
should have thefullest explanation of the measure tobe brought
forward. That it should have the utmost time given also,
for deliberation, and the greatest attention bestowed on it.
—(Hear, hear.)—lt would net have been inconsistent in
the Noble Duke to have stated the first day of Parliament
what was the extent of the measure, and what the guards,
as they are called, for the Protestant security. He hoped,
however, it was not too much to ask now whether the
whole of those measures were to be comprehended in
one Bill, concessions, regulations, and all, or whether the
concessions were to he in one, and the checks, guards, or
whatever they might be called, in another. He hoped also
that the House might be allowed to know in which of the
'liaises it was intended measures should originate. As to the
time when those measures were to be brought forward, he
should think all would be most satisfied of during the pre-
sent Session. He should propose, that as soon as the An-
nual Bills of the Army, were disposed of, which would
be, he apprehended, in three weeks or a month, he
should propose that his Majesty be advised to dissolve
the present Parliament, and have another called.—
( Hear, hear, hear.)—This would be more satisfactory
than any other, and the cs,untry would be satisfied
with any measures whether it were deemed wise to pursue
she measures gone with since the Revolution, or whether
soy course should., be pointed out. He hoped that he
slmul I not be thought unreasonable, if he at the present
time expressed some answer as to the mode in which
the measures were to he brought forward. The
Noble Lord then presented a petition from the Archbishop
and Clergy of Dublin against Emancipation.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—Upon the first day of
the session I had the honour of presenting to the consi-
deriition of your Lordships the general purport of the
measures, which I expected his Majesty's servants would
receive his Majesty's authority and command to introduce
into Parliament. I beg leave to decline to go any further
into the measures, or at the present moment to describe
more accurately what those measures will be, whether con-
tained in one or more Bills, presented to Parliament,
or whether it will be brought forward in this,
or the other House. My Lords, those treasures are
to be brought forward upon the responsibility of his Ma-
jesty's servants.—(Hear.)—We are now responsible for
the advice we gave to his Majesty to mention this sub-
ject in the Speech of the Lords Commissioners from
the Throne. We shall be responsible in conscience
at least for the success of those measures ;—(llear, hear.)
and when they have been adopted by this and the other
House, they will become law. But, my Lords, whether
responsible or not, I positively reject the charge that these
measure have been suggested by fears—(Hear.)—of any
thing that occurred in this or any other country. I
distinctly assert, that it' ever there was a period within
the lapse of twenty years, in which there was a total ab-
sance of all cause for fear, in consequence of what might
puss on those measures, this is that period. I will nut
say for what reason, but I can, and will 'prove it to be
so in this clearest manner, if it should be necessary.
It is true that though it may not be fear, or any
dirty motives for bring forward the measures. We intend
to bring them forward, toil will found them on a clear and
distinct view_ for introducing this subject into this and the
other House, with a view to an adjustment to the question.
I beg the noble Lords to understand that in doing so, we
bave not undertaken a task very agreeable to 118. I
will not talk of the sacrifices which I have made myself,
because they are trifling when compared with this. Bu t
I must say that a difference of opinion with the Noble
Lord himself is disagreeable to me. But when I look of
the sacrifices of a Noble Friend near me and a night
Honourable Friend in the other House, I cannot
conceive what his sacrifices must be, and what must have
been the sense he entertains of the inconvenience and
danger of things that arise from the state of
things 'n this country and Ireland, before he could
adopt that which he has adopted, and is now
endeavouring to carry through. Under these circum-
stances I entreat your Lordships to pause, to weigh this
question well, to consider it well, and to come to no deci-
sion on it until you see what it is we shall propose to you,
whether in what we shall propose, we shall not meliorate
the condition of this country and Ireland, whether it will
not place its Constitution on a better foundation than it has
beets placed upon, since the Union with Ireland. I will not
enter into the question, whether the consequences of that
will injure that Throne, which I would certainly sacrifice my
head to maintain, or have the effect my Noble Friend is
so apprehensive of. (Hear, hear.) But of this I
ail certain, that that is a question which the Noble Lords
have never clearly proved, and which I think I shall prove
when we conic to discuss this, that the Protestant interests
are exposed to greater danger now than they will be by
the measure to be brought into Parliament.
The Earl of ELDOY considered that until this evening li
the Noble Duke had given no information whatever to the
House upon the projected measure beyond what was to be
found in his Majesty's speech, and indeed he was left in
doubt as to what was meant by any thing that had ken
staeed just now. He would take the liberty of asking the
Noble Duke again, what he was really to understand of
the nature of measure.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, why I really must
beg the Noble's Earl's pardon, but 1 did deny it was the
intention of his Majesty's servants to bring forward the
measure or measures, having for their object of what's called
the Catholic Question incluoing the removal of all disahili-
sies, with exceptions founded on special grounds, anti that
measure shall be attended by other measures, rendered
necessary by the removal of disabilities, I have declined to
give any further explanation, and I hope this will be con-
sidered satisfactory.
The Earl of ELDON, then understood, that the Noble
Duke meant to bring in -a Uleitiure, for the removal of all