The Sun.
London, England, 1829-02-21 00:00:00

ginally opposed to the appointment of the Finance Com-
elittee, he thought it would be now acting unfairly to-
words it, Parliament, and the country, if it were not al-
lowed to conclude its labours.
Mr. MABERLY asked whether lie was to understand
the Right Hon. Gentleman to say, that the revival of the
Finance Committee was postponed, or merely the consider-
ation of the propriety of the revival ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he
had stated that at present the appointment of the Finance
Committee would be inconvenient, both to the House and
the Government. He also stated that various suggestions
had been made as to the manner in which economical ar-
rangements might be effected, but be thought it better to
postpone to a later period of the Session the adoption of
one of those suggestions.
Mr. BARING was anxious that the House should
resolve itself into a Committee of Supply, in order to
afford the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir H.
Hardinge) an opportunity of explaining the intentions of
Government. With respect to the Finance Committee, it
Lad been proposed and appointed under the pressure of
severe distress. Fortunately the circumstances of the
country were now altered, and we had a real surplus of
revenue amounting to about 3,500,0001. It was not to be
understood that a Finance Committee was to be reap-
pointed as a matter of course, though it was well known
that many Finance Committees went over several sessions
of Parliament. If Government were seriously employed
on the work of reduction, no doubt they had a large mass
of materials to go upon ; and if they did betake themselves
in earnest to the work, he could not object to the Com-
mittee not being reappointed—as, in that case, many
members would be relieved from a very tedious and irksome
duty. At the present time, knowing how much Govern-
ment was occupied with a most momentous question,and how
little attention it could give to the business of a corn-
mittee,—for if the committee were to be reappointed,
Government must of course go in to it, he was
disposed to make every allowance for the delay, but
when he said this, he should add, that he still ex-
pected that some reductions should be in preparation.—
He would not now enter into the detail into which the
Hon. Member for Aberdeen had gone—nor concur with
him in his suggestion as to the application of what he ex-
pected of a surplus revenue. We were subject to those
fluctuations, by which in one year there was a corsider-
able improvement, and another a great deficiency; and,
under such circumstances, it would not he safe or politic
to make such an application of a surplus for one year, par-
ticularly with such a revenue as we had, and above all with
such a mass of debt. When the Hon. Member talked of
reducing so large a portion of our force as 20,000 men, he
could not concur with him. He was not prepared to
propose any reduction of our force, except perhips a few
regiments of cavalry. As to what had been said of the
number of clerks employed in some of the public depart-
ment, and the assertion that the work of 35 or 36 clerks
could be done by eight, he would only say that if such
were the fact, the mode of doing business in those offices
deserved consideration. He had no doubt that the great
number of clerks in some of the departments tended to en-
cumber the business, make it less intelligible, and serve to
facilitate frauds which might be more effectually prevented
were the business conducted in a more simple manner. He
had little doubt that such defalcations as hid been seen in
the office of Paymaster of the Navy, (and upon this subject
he would soon move for information, for he did not now
know even the name of the defaulter), and also at Green-
wich Hospital, would he found to have arisen from the
present practice of encumbering offices with useless checks
and forms, which removed the more direct and immediate
controul of the head of the office, or which at least ren-
dered it less effectual than it would otherwise be found.
Reverting to the re-appointment of the Finance Committee
he would' add, that though it had been objected that such
Committees threw in a great degree the responsibility of Mi-
nisters upon the House, still he thought that the salutary
controul thus exercised by the House was very useful to the
public, and that it was for the advantage of the country
that this power of the House should from time to time be
called into operation.
Lord ALTHORP observe I, that if Government, with
the materials for working which they possessed in the in-
formation obtained by the Finance Committee, intended to
enter upon the business of reduction themselves, they
could do it more effectually than any Finance Committee.
If the Committee should be re-appointed, they ought nut
to examine the estimates of last years. These should be
left to the responsibility of the Ministers of the Crown.--
This was not his opinion in the early part of last year, but
he had since then seen reason to change it on this point.—
He would not then go into any detail, but would content
himself with saying, that a general statement of the finan-
cial state of the country was what they had a right to expect
through the Committee.
The motion for the Speaker's leaving the Chair was
I tien parried, and the House having gone into the
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY,

. .
Sir H. HARDINGF, rose to move the Estimates. He
began by saying that in presenting the estimates to the com-
mittee, he would confine himself principally to noticing the
difference in the items between the past and the present
year, and to giving such explanations of each item of charge
as would make them intelligible to Hon. Members. He
would say a word as to the whole force to be kept for the
year—that amounted to 89,723 men, exclusive of the forces
on service in India. If that farce had been kept up, according
to the view taken of it by the Hon. Mernher fur Aber-
deen, with reference to the state of Great Britain, or in
anticipation of the settlement of the question with respect
to Ireland, Hon. Members would no doubt expect that
Lamsiderable diminution n ight now be made, particularly
as the teenquillity at home was confirmed by assurances
from the Throne: thpt no interruption wile likely to take
place in the elate of our feeeign relations. But Hon.
Members would recollect that the force kept pp for some
years past had not so much a reference to our state at hums
3.e,' Do the relief of gat risons abroad, and that it was in the
soot aff ;lose garrisons that a reduction could be ex-
pected; if Ai-0,213p mild be male. On this part he would
state that there was a dimioation this year of our force by
1,200 men, by the reduction of stafi corps, by four com-
panies: from the African Corps, and this was ea: elusive of
the retly,a;iin of 5,000 men by taking 50 from each of the
Yegiments. 71,;e ae:Paction of expence of this last would
be 196,p001. this year. It was 80,000/. in the last, mak-
ing a difference of 20,`,'00/. 'The e.,:;;•Qutage of this gra-
, dual mode of diminishing the amount of foi,ce; by smell re-
ductions from each regiment, was this---that it saved in a
great degree the expense whitd, would he atter.-ies. in the
disbanding of a large number at once.; for 1::a 77ust
pecassarily include a number of young livaa 7/111.-1}
would thus come upon the pension list. As te the
Staff corps, It wae fonod that we could do without
those twelve compan'ga.a. They wpre reduced in this
way—seven companies were allowed to yulnnteer alto
the corps of Sappers and Miners, and frio
ave,re taken into the Ordnance. This gradual reduction
would ale() create a great saving in the way of pension.
The next iiNG cf readuction was that of four companies of
400 men from the African ,;.::ous. This created a saving
of 9,0001. There was also a dinainuti,aual a:;,,out 900/. in
the stati of the waggon-train by the reduction of a raa;aer,
and a paymaster, and some minor reductions. In the corps
iu ties Est Indi,es there Ivies a reduction of 5,800, making
a diminutio4 of ,expen,ce of 128,p0p1,; but then it should be
considered that thii sum wearld pot be wholly !eyed to the
public, because a provision should be &lade [Tr apane of
those who were returning home. The whole diminution
of feaeae of 1929, as compared with 1827, would be 12,000
men, and a,5 camoared with last year, more than 8,000.
There would I.' a dimix,:etjon of expense amounting to
73,0001. On the miscellaneous Cis swap and contingencies,
—such as oil and emery money, marching raoriei, aria target
rallowances, &c., there would be a saving on the reductions
of 6,8881. The. next charge in the estimates was the staff
in Great Britain and abroae:. This amounted to 117,136/.,
on which a diminution of expense had bean -41,10419 76•-• e
• •
Mod; saf this reduction originated with'the Commander-hi-
Chief himself, J r u reduction of a large portion of the
medical staffs, which meaeaare was nine!' assisted by the
co-uperatien of the Director-General of the Medical pe-
part:neut. In the charge for " public departments,4 %%41414
now amounted to 105,9281., there was a reduction of
'4,92-91. 1 hie yeae. It was but doing justice to the Noble
Lord (Palruereton) eh,/ bad ~-.l7.!!eded him in office, to
state, that the greater pall; of tins ;4: was reeldt of
arrangements made by him before he pitied 'L.flaii,Va.,o4
here he might add, with reference to what fell from the
; nap, 2,!esnber for Callington (Mr. A. Baring) on the
euqect'Orthe fed action of clerks, that there had been in
the last year of ttra war -W..? leFise in tile office of the Se-
cretary of War, and of that ournber'9l tr4,i hey, eadaead,
Yet with that reduced number there existed 'tie'aVe;;.tial-,
despatch in the arrangements of the accounts, ao that there
was o arrear. This could not have been effected without
the most aatiere e.-.f.erions on the part of his Noble Friend,
and in any thing wh:cti lit ca4d pow do in the way of
reduction or regulation, he should be only giaaaini the
field which his Noble Friend had reaped.—(l-fear, hear.)
in all,: charge for medicines, amounting to 16,560/., there
would be a, (;intion of 1,200/. In the expense of the
11-a 11,
• volunteer corps these wouiq I,u-: diiireinution of 5,000/.
and upwards. In the charge I,lege
; there would be a diminution of nearly 3,060/., and next
' year it would amount to about 4,0001., out of a gia;ss
sum r,l 12,9601. ; and there was a prospect of its being
; brought to a snin of 8,000/. in the course of a short time.
- The diminution had been made by the reduction of one