The Sun.
London, England, 1827-05-22 00:00:00

FOREIGN DEPARTMENT.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that being
anxious to elicit every thing connected with the Foreign
Office, for the purpose of contrasting its present state
with what it was in 1822, he was now going to move for
further returns. It appeared that large sums had been ex-
pended in building mansions and making great improve-
ments in the accommodation of the Foreign Secretary.-
10,0001. he understood had been expended in the purchase
of a house. This, with the other sums expended within
the last eighteen months, upon improvements connected with
the Foreign Office department in Downing-street, amounted
in all to 60,000/. The Noble Lord would not find fault with
this extravagance, if it were once settled that the Foreign
Secretary should be singled out, and provided with accom-
modation in every way superior to the Home Secretary, and
those of the Colonial Secretary. This fact of the expendi-
ture of 60,0001. was, he believed, not generally known to
the public. He should, therefore, move, that an
humble Address be presented to his Majesty, praying that he
might direct to be laid before the House returns of the amount
of all sums expended on the Foreign Office buildings, since
January, 1824, and also of all sums expended in the pur-
chase of furniture and other decorations, and likewise of
the purchase money paid for the house of Sir Robert
Preston in Downing-street.
Lord GODERICH said that there was no objection
whatever to furnish the returns, but the Noble Marquis
was quite mistaken in supposing that the public were not
acquainted with all the details of the expenditure. The
fact was, that each item had been distinctly voted in the
other House.

The Returns were then ordered.
THE NEW ADMINISTRATION.

Lord MANSFIELD said, that iu obedience to the ad-
vice of his friends, he was about to move their Lord-
ships that the Order for summoning them on the
7th of June be discharged. lie at the same time informed
them that he had no intention of renewing his notice of
motion. At the same time he wished it to be dis-

tinctly understood that his own opinions were perfectly
unaltered. lle did not think it fit to ask or avail himself
of the support of any of his Noble Friends whom be had
not previously consulted, and they agreeing with him upon
all general points merely differed upon the precise course of
proceeding which he ought to adopt. They thought that
it would not be -advi,seable to persevere in his motion,
and he had, thercfote, Tull other option but to give it
up.• He did not inetan now to state his reasons for so
doing, nor did he with to 'provoke a discussion upon the
subject of his intended motion. He yielded in this
instance to the *ice .his fiiends, but he begged to state
that if upon an} other occasion a discussion should arise
which would give him as opportunity of -expressing and
acting upon his opinions, he would tilt himself -of it
attlititigh his view might be different ft i th7iiginion of
those with whom lie generally agreed. Upon such an
occasion, with all his wishes for unanimity, he would ex-
press his own unbiassed sentiments.

The order was then discharged.
CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.

The Earl of HARE WOOD then rose, but spoke in such
a low tone, that although the most profound silence pre-
vailed in the House, the Noble Earl was scarcely audible
below the bar. We understood him to say that he
felt a most anxious desire to ask a question of
a Right Reverend Prelate opposite relating to a
subject of the deepest importance. He did not
mean to go into any details, but would rest satisfied
with a simple answer to a plain question. It was a
subject which he knew required to be touched with the
greatest delicacy—it was one always of much import-
ance ; but it was of still more importance at this parti-
cular crisis, that the true state of this question should
be understood. The Noble Lord had seen published
and promulgated an address on the Catholic Question to
the Bishops and Clergy of their dioceses by two eminent
Divines.—(Cries of " Hear, hear, hear.")—He wished
to ask whether the Right Reverend Prelate had made
that declaration upon any authority, and if so, upon what
authority ? It was necessary for the public to know the
authority, for if those opinions were forwarded on autho-
rity they could not be promulgated unless by the authority
of his Majesty's Council.—(Loud cries of hear, hear.)
The BISHOP of LONDON—My Lords, I feel some
difficulty in answering the question of the Noble Earl ; I
have no difficulty in answering it according to my im-
pression of its general import, although the precise nature
of the answer which he requires I cannot exactly under-
stand. If it be, whether a statement to my Clergy, made
by me as to opinions entertained in a quarter which I
cannot in this House mention—(Loud cries of hear, hear)
if I repeat the question has reference to that statement,
I feel no difficulty in saying that that statement was gene-
rally correct,—(Loud cries of hear, hear)—and (after a
pause), if your Lordships wished me to go further
and state more particularly I am ready to obey your com-
mands.--(Cheers. )_The Right Rev. Prelate here
paused, and after a short interval he sat down amidst loud
cries of " go on, go on.")
Earl SPENCER rose to order. He stated that there
was no question before the House, and lie had always
thoUght it improper to excite unpleasant debate on any sub-

jest which was not regularly before the House. On the
present occasion, the answering the question of the Noble
Earl might lead to a discussion of the greatest importance,
to produce which, the Noble Earl had stated, was not his
wish.

The Earl of ELDON said, that the Noble Earl had

asked whether the declaration, stated to have been made by
a Right Rev. Prelate at a meeting of the Clergy, was cor-
rectly reported. To that question an answer had been

given, and the question now proposed was, by what autho-
rity the Right Rev. Prelate had made that declaration.
If it was intended by that question to elicit the statement
of an authority which ought not to be mentioned in that
House, he begged leave to say that he for oue would not
give his consent to such a course of proceeding. The fact
that the Right Rev. Prelate bad made the declaration
which had been reported, had been established ; and that
circumstance was sufficient.

The Earl of HAREWOOD stated, in answer to the
Noble Earl who spoke last but one, and who objected to
the practice of putting questions as leading to debates, that
he did not find that it was either an unusual or unparlia-
mentary practice; and he was the more inclined to follow
that praotice, because he had heard questions put to which
no direct answer h.sd been returned by the Noble Lords
opposite, who stated, that whenever a motion respecting
the stability of Government should be brought forward,
they would then give an answer to the questions which
had been put to them. He was not desirous of provoking
iany discussion; and he had begun by saying that he was
zic.'irft

aware of the delicate nature of the question. All he wished
to produce was, a declaration from the Right Rev. Prelate,
that when he made the communication in question to the
Clergy of his diocese, he had authority for so doing. That
declaration he had produced, and he inquired no further.
—(Hear.)—He did not inquire by what authority that
.communication had been made; for lie knew that it must
have been made upon the authority of his Majesty's advisers.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN rose to order. He was
of opinion that those Noble Lords to whom the Noble
Earl had alluded, as declining to answer questions until
they were put in the form of a regular motion, had only
done that which it was competent for them to do; and he
thought that by that course they had merely consulted the
general convenience of the House, because much inconve-
nience arose from incidental and protracted discussions.
It must, however, rest in the bosom of every individual in
that House, whether he would exercise his own discretion
in answering the questions put to him, and he must say
that he (the Marquis of Lansdown) hoped the Right Rev.
Prelate would pause before he answered the second ques-
tion put to him by the Noble Earl opposite; because, if
the object of that question was to induce the Right Rev.
Prelate to state an authority which he (the Marquis of
Lansdown) would not name, if the Right Rev. Prelate
gave an answer, from that moment he made himself the
responsible adviser of the opinions which had been com-
municated, and lie must be answerable for every conse-
quence attached to those opinions. He did not, therefore,
consider the question being put as obliging the Right Rev.
Prelate to answer it ; and lie thought that the Right Rev.
Prelate would refuse to give an answer to the question,
which must commit him as having been the• giver of ad-
vice such as in the history of Parliament and the Constitu-
tion of this country had not been given before. He there-
fore trusted that the Right Rer. Prelate would pause be-
fore he gave an answer; and he was sure that the House
would not insist on •an answer being given ; and even if
any motion should be made, it would not be necessary to re-

ply to the question.
Earl GREY felt all the inconvenience of discussions
like the present. He must, however, say one word as to
the situation in which the House was placed in conse-
quence of the question put to the Right Rev. Prelate. He
thought the Noble Marquis was right in saying, that
though it was the constant practice of Parliament to allow
questions like the present to be answered, still it must be
in the discretion of the person. to whom questions were
put, to answer them or to decline so doing. He would
therefore have concurred with his Noble Friend, in think-
ing that it woul4 have been improper in the Right Rev.
Prelate to have given an answer to any part of the question
which had been put to him. He did think that the
question itself was, both with respect to the character of
Parliament and the situation iu which their Lordships
stood in that House, in discussing public questions of
the greatest importance; and it did appear to him, that
such an answer was made by the Right Reverend Pre-
late to the first part of the question, as was in fact an
answer given to the whole. The Right Rev. Prelate
stated, that if the Noble Earl alluded to the account
given in the papers of a speech delivered b'y him to the
clergy of his diocese, that statement was substantially
correct. And he understood the Right Reverend Prelate
to proceed further, and to state that he undoubtedly would
not have been so presumptuous as to make that statement,
if he had not sufficient authority, for so doing. It was a
fair inference to be 'drown from what the Right Reverend
Prelate had stated, that that statement had been made
under authority of the greatest„ public importance. He
would not allude more Particulaly either to the subjecVor
the consequences which such a declaration might have

kereafter ; but it did appear to.him that tberewas ground,

if the Noble Earl (Hare Wood) chose to.avail himself of it,
in consequence of that statement; for coining down to that
House with a motion to enable their Lordships to declare
their opinion on the character of that proceeding, and upon

the conduct of the advisers of the Crown. He had an
opinion of his own upon the proceeding, which he should
not express until such a motion should be made. As the
question which the Noble Earl had put had been distinctly
answered, be thought that the discussion had better drop.
Lord ROLLE said a few words, which were not heard

below the bar.

The Earl of 1-lARROWBY said, that the point now
was, had the question been answered in such a manner as
Parliament, consistent with its duty, could recognise it to
have been answered? If the House thought it necessary
to put on the words of the Right Rev. Prelate the inter-
pretation which the Noble Earl who spoke last but, one, had
put on them, then it was the duty of their Lordships to
have stopped the Right Rev. Prelate in the midst of an
unconcluded sontence, and prevent him from attaching to
himself the responsibility which he might otherwise have
to bear; because he (the Earl of Harrowby) was net
blind in the importance of the question; nor blind to the
impropriety of the suggestions now for the first time made
to a British Parliament, respecting the private opinions of
the King on any question which might be brought forward.
He knew nothing so perfectly destructive to the character,
so perfectly incompatible with every privilege of Parlia-
ment—nothing could render it so unsatisfactory to their
Lordships in sitting in that House, and mocking themselVes
and the country!with the idea of discharging their duties, as to
permit themselves to suppose, many manner or degree that
there was upon any measure, whether now pending or which
might hereafter be pending, a previously formed opinion of
the King. He would state, and state it without fear of
contradiction, that no man had a right to presume before-
hand, what would be the opinion of the sovereign upon
any measure which might be brought before him by both
Houses of Parliament, or to say that he would take or 1
ject the advice of those persons who were at that very mo-
ment his confidential servants. If such were not the true
doctr;,,e of the Constitution, then all those who had for
centuries past been ~.ndeavouring to establish a free and
representative Constitution in this country had been mis-
taken. Upon th ;se grounds he trusted that their Lord-
ships would not permit themselves to be carried into far-
ther discussion upon an incidental subject ; and if ever
there should be brought forward a motion in consequence.
of the manner in which the question of the Noble Earl had
been answered, it ought to be met by a direct and indig-
nant negative.
Earl GREY thought the mode in which any motion
ought to be treated must depend upon the nature of the
motion itself.
The Earl of HAREWOOD begged, whatever impro-
priety or informality there might be in the present course
of proceedings, that the whole burden might be thrown
on his shoulders. He would not have started the subject,
for he was aware of its delicacy, had he not seen that a
declaration upon a question that was connected with the
best interests of this country was made the subject of pub-
lic communication.--(Hear.)—He then thought himself
justified in bringing forward the subject, on the ground
that that declaration was no longer a private declaration,
but bad been made public.—Adjourned.