The Sun.
London, England, 1820-08-29 00:00:00

[New Times.]

It will be seen, with great satisfaction, that the
Queen has been allowed by his Majesty's Go-
vernment unlimited funds to conduct her defence
and to bring her witnesses to this
,country. We
have before stated that every possible facility was
given to the Gentleman whom she sent to the
Continent for the purpose of collecting evidence.
Our diplomatic agents abroad were specially
charged to render this Gentleman all the assist-
ance that he might need, and that it might be in
their power to give. This is a triumphant answer
to all the anticipative slanders which suggested
that an opposite line of conduct would be ob-
served. With regard to the unusual indulgences
requested on the part of her Majesty's Counsel
in the cross-examination of witnesses, the House
of Lords gave every possible attention to the ar-
guments in favour of the demand ; but the reply
of the King's Attorney-General seems tb be
quite conclusive. Such a rule; if adopted, must
either make a difference between the case of her
Majesty and that of any other subject, or else
all the Criminal Courts in the Kingdom must
grant a similar indulgence, if asked by persons
charged with any offence: and we need scarcely
say how utterly incompatible this would be
found with the general administration of justice.

PROVINCIAL JO URN BLS.

[Front the Bristol Journal, Aug.26.]

Title QUEEN'S CASE.—=The length and the im-
portance of the Parliamentary Proceedings on
her Majesty's case must be an apology this week
for our brevity of remark upon the different oc-
currences which have arisen. The evidence speaks
for itself, in terms too plain to be misunderstood.
The Box of , Pandora has been forcibly opened,
and when it will be closed we cannot anticipate.
--It is indeed to be lamented that public morals
should be exposed to the corruption which must
flow from so much obscenity ; but we do not
hesitate to say, it would be far more deplorable
that the two Houses of Parliament should be
scared from their duty, or shrink from observa-
tion in its discharge. They must now go
on without flinching, and they must spew
that they do not fear the eyes of the world
being turned towards their proceedings. Thus;
and thus only can they overcome those base
and shameless slanders, which have been heaped
upon them by the seditious and insidious press;
and above all, by that treasonable publication
which was issued into the world under the signa-
ture of the Queen. Many amiable prejudices

have no doubt been enlisted on the side of her
MajesLy, and there is every where an anxious
hope that she may be proved worthy to succeed
the great and virtuous Queen, who so long and
so faithfully watched' over the morals of Eng-
land ; but there. is also a great fund of good sense
and sound feeling, in the country ; no one will

shut his eyes to the truth ; no one but the Radi-
cal Reformer will listen, for a moment, to the
treasonable suggestion that justice is not to by
obtained from the two Houses of Palliament
the nation will receive with perfect confidence

the decision of that august tribunal ; and if it
should unhappily be found that the Queen is
guilty, the nation will confirm, by its sorrowing
acquiescencx, the painful sentence of her Ma-
jesty's degradation.

BRISTOL ADDRESS TO THE QUEEN.
Cootied 1-loose, Btistol, Ane. 19.
SIII,---The following paragraph has appeared
in a London Paper:—
" The Corporation of Bristol ascreed, on Wednesday, to an
Address to the Qneen, which will be presented by the Mem-
bers of that City." _ _ _ _ _ _

I am direCted by the Mayor of Bristol to

fOrm you, that the Corporation of this City have
not agreed to any Address is hatever to the Queen,
and that the statement is totally false. The Cor-
poration have called on the Editor of the Paper
in question to furnish them with the name of the
author, and the Mayor requests that you will be
pleased to I.;ontradiet the statement iu your next

Paper.
The following paragraph was inserted in the
Bristol Gazette of last Thursday :--.
We have been credibly infornicd that at a meeting of the
CorPor'll ion this day, Sir Henry Prot heroe gave notice that he
should, at the next House, move a Loyal Address to the
Queen, congratulating her Majesty on her safe and happy
arrival in this country."
This is the only time that the Queen's name has
been mentioned at any Meeting of the, Corpora-
tion of Bristol; and the Mayor has authorised
me to say, that it is quite unusual to give notices
on such occasions; and he believes, if the motion
had been made, no Gentleman at the Meeting
would have seconded it. I am, Sir,
Your obedient humble servant,
HENRI" DAY.

A detachment of the 19th Lancers marched
into this tom non Monday, to be 'stationed here
till further orders. On Monday last, the Ist
West York militia, commanded by Colonel
Dixon, having completed., the period of their
training at Doncaster, were dismissed to proceed
to their respective homes. They are a remark-
ably fine body of men, have conducted themselves
in the most orderly • manner, both*to the satisfac-
tion of the inhabitants and their officers ; and
have acquired .a precision in 'their evolutions, send
steadiness in firing, that would do credit to a
regular regiment.—(Shelie/dAfercztry, Aug. 26.)

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORD' MONDAY, Ago.
.•
‘_THE QU N. .
. ,
AsTuchikNef the DIM , f ert
•v - ,
tv ttlt I larVl.SlMlZszoowse begged .• save 'to
offer a few words to the consideration of their
Lordships; and he thought that he was not wholly
without a claim upon their Lordships' attention;
as he was one of those who were anxious—toitear
the Counsel at the bar, with respect to the rule
which they should lay down in the mosle -of -ion-
ducting the cross-examinations, lie begged to obd
serve in allusion to what had fallen front a Noble
Lord near him (Lord Lauderdale)„ that he by -
no means wished to have it understood, that iti •,
expressing his willingness to hear the CounSel at
the Bar, he would have the House implicitly
yield to their opinions of the policy and conve-^
nience of their Lordships' proceedings. Certain-
ly not ; he wished that they should be invited to
suggest their views, and that the House should
listen to them. His opinion was, that if -their
Lordships were to make any rule which Would-
be a deviation frorn the regular course of prod
ceeding, that it would be satisfactory to such. of
their Lordships, as like himself were not per--
fectly acquainted with the subject, to have the
bearings of that deviation laid before theirs.. And
he was convinced that, in the propriety of this
course, their Lordships would agree, or at least
such of them as had expressed a wish that the
Attorney-General should be heard on Saturday
last—for it was quite evident that his Noble
Friend. who called upon the Learned Gentleman
to proceed, experienced the very same feeling of
anxiety, to become acquainted with the whole of
the difficulties of this question, and the probable
remedies which might be suggested, as he (the
Marquess of Lansdosine) had felt when he propos-
ed that the Counsel on both sides should be heard-
He therefore felt, and should continue to feel, that
whenever 'he saw'the approach of that which he
knew must frequently occur in the prosecution of
this case, namely, the. necessity of a deviation
from the regular practice of those Courts to whose
proceedings they wished as much as possible to
assimilate the present—that then they shottld
.
appeal to the Counsel on both sides, and hest
the arguments stated for, and in opposition 'tor
the proposed deviation. lie perfectly concurred
with the Noble Earl (Liverpool) as to. his recol-
lection of what was the understanding of their
Lordships ou a former occasion, when the rule
was laid down to which the Noble Lord had ad-
verted—nor did he remember that any specific
course had been marked out by the House with
respect to the mode of cross-examining.. But then
that question became afterwards a fit subject for.
consideration, and when the Noble Earl assentel
to the adjournment of the cross-examination oti
the part .of .her Majesty's Counsel, he was,
deavouring to afford them an equivalent fo-r-o°.
withholding of - a list of witnesses, giving the
Noble Earl credit for the belief that the liberti
of postponing the cross-examination k . . uld P!, si
such an equivalent. For his part, he en,' table"(
a very great doubt that it was in the iitriter.°'
the House tSt give any equivalent' toalier IVia;
testy's Counsel, in the absence of -that rusto
witnesses, which would have enabled them to
proceed immediately on the conclusion of the
examination in chief, with the cross-examination,
which would have prevented the evidence, tici
such cross-examination going on, front settli.4
itself on their Lordships' minds, and, above all'
which would have prevented it from settlit4
on the minds of the public. Every 6ileg
at all acquainted with the proceedings of Court;
of Justice, must know that, to the end &if
a cross-examination might be productive . ect
any !good, it was necessary that it .shout
immediately succeed the examination in chic(
;
Their Lordships had placed it out of the pe've
of the Counsel for her Majesty to avail tbeilf",
selves of the advantages which this course ..al
forded, and the value which their Lordships,-e
upon these advantages was manifested by °to
solicitude which their Lordships had shewilw
furnish an equivalent. The real question )..0
their Lordships' consideration now was, Coo6j
they get rid of all the difficulties which st° ,t
before them ? if, ifor inStatice, the Counsel, 0;t
knowing any thing of the witness from the in"ss,,
Trieste, were unable to proceed with the et ,0.
examination, would their Lordships preclude t'i j
resumption of it.at a future period, when it catty
be undertaken with effect ? And he svoulti 3,
-their Lordships, could they ask the Attorneli?
General to sum up his evidence before theits.
No, .it would be a great injustice, and-0911f'3.
be surpassed by that of not allowing her -101,
jesty's Counsel an opportunity of restnning 05
cross-examination at a future period. llerros
• so far from thinking that this case was free 'boot
.difficulty, that he thought no case was Wit tiaj
its difficulty, and the difficulty which ho ad
now shown to their Lordships, he appreben Imo
to be of a very grievous character. It Iva' void
opinion, therefore, that their Lordships sl'°:o,..
leave, an opportunity of resuming the cross, oil
mination hereafter, but that they should o?i, b
‘,lot
upon the Attorney-General to sum up tin."
cross-examination were concluded. 00i
I.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE chewed, that if het' ~0a
17,
thus early brought the consideration of ttii. questio,".;oile;
on being called in. the Attorney. General would hare. 0)' !,,
speech (as lie must hare understood that he was to °. ugilt I
order to-point out the course which their Lardshipt °
take during their future proceedings. ' .it Oligr:
Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought, that if the confritai reit
by the House on Saturday were followed if p. a "wstuid 3t 3.1)
cedent would be established, a precedent which w'' eeleio
time give Counsel an opportunity of int erposq/10700 s!iiii,
twenty-four hours in the course of an inqui,y• 1 .s.eloVitv
on the question, Whether the usual course of cro,
ej coto
lion should be departed from. be thought the Le3r" of geir
sel ought to have been bgard on Saturday,
that their Lordships had thought proper to adjoudr:,;;„.4. "fop
course into which they
doing this afforded them an opportunity of aba".bicht 'lied'
hut he • a, tl;3,
had been betrayed,
ta:ll:o.stoil'edr,ritto;
!owe d up, could not have failed to produce
consequences. It was extremely impottata 11)'!'.i. wltiiiiii.,,,
examination should follow the examination ii, c'hi.` 1,001'04,
evidence was still fresh in the recollection of the roce
voy
and this had been clearly exempliued in that xtrl7,l:t cps!r bog
when a most important fact re!atiee to the s,'•;atieelii,o
purposely left in obscurity by the Counsel 10,r ingif Lao'
was rendered clear by a question from Ual! (" th

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kneW that tire printiple acted upon In all Coats of Jus-
tice was, that the Counsel for the defence should make his
speech immediately, if that were physically possitlie ; and the
reason
„fit was clear, that the interval eve?' of twelve hours
Pliottltt lint he allowed to afford the opportunity of getting up-a
01Am .letence. He then stated the argument oil both sides,
1""1 gave it as his opinion, that the delay to lie allowed be-
'Keen the evidence fur the prosecution and that for the de.
fra te
was witch more than equivalent to any advantage that
the Queen could have hoped to derive from being indulged
a list of the witnesses. He she wed that a great advan--
''gc W 3% thus afforded to her Majesty's, Defenders ; and pro-
to argue, that if the claim for delay were admitted,.
c"eY could never hope•to arrive at the conclusion of these prii-
4`di"e.s. If eight or ten weeks were allowed to prepare tar
c. cross-examination, cont.! their Lordships in fairness refuse
iihilulgence to the Officers of the Crown ? It might
theta appear necessary, in consequence of what came out
lhe cross-examinations, to cal new witnesses, and then a
e
sil-e.rl delay might he called for to cross-examine them, and sub-
-I,,,attili)e.ittly a still further delay preparatory to their re-exarni-
per- ''• Acting thus, it was impossible for them to foresee the
jielq at which the Attorney-tieneral could close his case.
ce,.74% or oriniutt that the cross-examination ought to pro-
-4s it had •lotte in the former part of the inquiry. •
sidi,hr
LORD CHANCELLOR having considei ed and re-con-
;o 'red the subject, would feel it his duty to give the same
.),:."'m the questions which had been disposed of relatire to
mode of proceeding with the inquiry that he had given
.‘s,e,..,rettifore. He Was convinced that tarnishing her Majesty
re 111... list of the witnesses that were to he
.calle,d,. would nut
„ mine a fortieth part of the difficulties with which they had
contend. He congratulated himself and the House that
they had not come to a final determination on the question
'‘" bad been raised on Saturday. A more fatal precedent
tchu'd 'lot he established thau would have been formed had
,',st Norse been taken which !lie House generally srenied
•atiiiturdity to think proper. He described the course which
d been taken its the examination of a former witness, oil.
i'rving by the way that it was a mistake to suppose that
IT,4ding piestions could not be put by their Lordships. At
cunclusiott of the cross-examination of Paturzo, he read
rein the minutes—
t Ale. BROUGrt Ist stated, that not being aware of the at-
,"dance of this witness, he trusted their Lordships would
oet
a 'eel ,
tot front putting further questions to him,
%well •as the former witness at a future time,
.in case of
eieirite information which might render it material to do so.
oet-, be Cotiosel were informed, that the liouse would judge
0e,,,0c. application whets it was tliade, with the circ ta numsces
‘i.stoilitt,,s, it."
I his applicatioo his. Lordship held to be perfectly
1.1,, . the part of tire Learned Counsel. A distinct ap.
aCttion had heeit made to the House to allow Theodore
the',l4'ci to be recalled, in consequence of information which
• b ''"rl),•ti Gentleman had received, and which he regarded
selt.''"g "of very considerable ininneitt." He had pledged him-
• :" put only one or two questions, but on this he laid no
tit petting one question might make it absolutely ne-
t...a:. l•
it ry,
put '
another. The witness, however, was brought
d
restt,ti' " the ground which he had'stated. Thus flatters
atom,. °wtt to Saturday, when a new application was
to defer the cross-examination of a witness till in-
t!, Y
however,
be made into her character and situation in life.
nl '"wever, pot it to their Lordships, if the cross-examina-
rs. which •I I • into did not exceed the limits
aith: at. Kin sone
h.. "I Whiell. the Learned Counsel's questions ought to have
„,,-.tt4 confined if a future cross-examination were to be allow-
lee•He did not say that there was no difficulty in the way of
itr„,-leeding as it had now been proposed to their Lordships to
beer 4, by refusing to attend to the application which had
part-. tnade: but there woold be much more danger in de-
- „e 'll from that rule which hail been handed down from
44c, and which had been acted on in all occasions of
th4tn'tture. It was essential to the interests of both parties
te.,a the cross.examinations should immediately follow the
• iination in chief ; that if the integrity of a witness were
qeestion, he might have an opportunity of set-
niniself tight with the Court at once. e showed that the
ate,4,:')er-General could. not tell whether, or nut it would lie
t."ry to call more witnesses till the cross-examinations
tg.„,„'een gone through with. There was another point ot
tt.:S.t importance. Was the indulgence as to time that was
e";• claimed to be mutual ? If so, it would be seen whist
for "t" delays insist take place while evidence was sought
setlat Jerusalem, at Tunis, and other places. objected
b
the defence in the present case being conducted
I'l,::,Thinciples never before acted tipon under the benig-
it tLW of England. Were they to destroy all the laud-
ta
',whir? of the Coastitittion to avoid meeting the difficulty
th I t t face It was impossible for hint
a ey loss o .
111,4,PPrOve of any other mode of conducting the defence
tat,' thitt which accorded with the ancient established
lltailtllaid down in cases of this sort. He was of opinion
ktein !cross-examination ought immediately to follow the ex-
e:„-x.s.auutic+ciliiiiiunt chief. This would be the safest cuurse of pro-
always with an inclination to open ratite!. than
reWhere d°or against the further examination of a witness,
the c:4.'°"ithie 'grounds for doing tht, should be shewn. On
that or, ,lier'ee of an old man he would assure their Lordships
kme
'mn'ideratiott, they would find the practices nctined
W• England to lie founded on pi inciples tosa whicoh it
rate i,e_MO.st wise to adhere—that it would nut be well, to
W 111,1117 Inconvenience to-day, to depart from that course
'Used the sanction of ages; and that they might be as-
Itt,tt t ghat it would be better to acquit tett thousand persons
&sive
egitto . those established rules which had hitherto
is. ell their preceeditoss.
tent4Ett GREY said it was a'question whether it was not incum-
----(tieP°l•l their Lordships to drop the proceedings altogether.
ties ir:srs hear!)—He had supposed that the peculiar
whlch her Majesty was placed, by the bringing for-
by rep.ainst her a n tunber of vague and.indefinite charges, aid
deKteet's'ilf; her the list of witnesses, would have been in smite
erest coltinetisated for, by granting her Counsel the power of
14,4 we'tan'ioing, the evidence against her, undercirctinistances
tared °WI' leave no cause of Complaint. If, after haring as.
:ft!
.(attee.O'S COMISeI of this. indulgence,. some reasons
'esteeming thi•ir power, tie would advise their Lord-
'etc t(I consider well before they would ,withdraw the privi-
°f the Q - •
eats a liven s Counsel, and hear them urge their argil-
ti4ekg4,llst such a proceeding. It was not his intention to
Ist to the arguments upon the propriety of grantins,• a
11:14nutteVillt'stcs;' he should merely allude to them fur the
ot of. elucidation. He lamented that the House had
If 4do
• tli,ted the advice of his Noble Frieud (Lord Erskine).
nad
„„eirlso One so, those difficulties which now presented
'oe pr-esv_es would no longer exist ; and the consideration
Zedi,,,,:nt. question, calculated as it was to protract the pro.
e ft,s, • would have been rendered wholly unnecessary.—
rti Grey) was the first who had proposed to their
4111 "IK (0 a'. •
( ti :,rant a particular specification.of the ch.arges
•euriside ,C witnesses, and he would ask their Lordships to
Della r whether Oleic. was an Ximp upon record of a
*ill 4, he . d . .
t la almost said a criml, baying been charged
'to
.'ere
se a Ithtber of acts without specifical Mil of those
seles .
Jew 'ills Was a departure from the ordinary course
hulteeti.altogetliar, as he had before expressed him-
th Rti the ."e House had thought otherwise. He did pot ar-
,tr gra,l•!tirlgtnerit ot the House; but when be was told that
'hetet. those advantages which were granted upon all
ea'l it. Was contrary to all precedent, he must dissent
hikatittep.Was argued that if the imputed offence had been
'll Etigland, the charge would have been •one, of
:Nei; --s°n• How then w uld her Majesty here been eto.
414) 4Kainst ? • ° •byl• •
welt hef 1,.. She would have had, tats, a specifi-
tteliso, charges, a list of witnesses, and all othia ad-
,l• !tetteantcli were now denied to her. If she had been
I,,ueevei."te st Fainst in the other road, that of divorce, a
illteu to be equally utimaintainable with that of
e .kg
41 7„111K ..Purist her upon a charge of high treason,. as
ecles,!'"g head of the Church, was not amenahle to
'at at"ert ',"tial Courts, what would have taken place ?
felt 4arctsykoUld be furnished with a distinct specification
euet4tivaq. list of witnesses and as much time for tr..4i,ng
iu ltcti,4ge of all those privileges' as seas necessary for the
cot:t.°lf the ease. Besides, if any. new matter came out
"aui of the investigation, she would be allowed to
tat, ealrt d, intl to call witnesses to support her 'argument.
teas it then asking too much to request that her
N 1.1,4411,4110 permitted'to cross-examine, under such
ti4el °f t.;•,44's •IS WOlllll in some degree compensate for the re.
st,o9'.,e advantages ? Certainly not. It had been dis-
kip:Nis-547.5' by their Lord:imps that her Majesty should have
the' y rot those advantages, and could they with ra-
ite l'urp„,. that winch was the only thin, that ojeild answer
fie,,,l,lrre„Js Oran equivalent As to a precedent upon which
charged . • a e •i-
-oef,t, Of the
ei could be shown to e snail. et to sp
ss ut sci 'l4rges and a list of witnesses, the case of the
11'11141'.te o",lish'4',f):)lls. which had been cited at thei.r Lordships'
For it, ti . le of great force. A divorce having been
without an previous proceeding in
tker"Pdf -tAsticAt
d ee obtair 'named. A list of witnesses was also-applied
"d•--(Hear, hear, hear')—'Those advantages
arast granted
, 1 Tim the special ground of the peculiar
„"Ineh4Otis, t,.1.111 Winch the Duchess was said to stand; and
Pr Y ..:15%, fit to grant without hesitation, that
titled to the Queen of England. Nay, ereti
utruf es eXamination of the witnesses, for the pur-
ist 4tis certaittii
eai nart• • 'I; their places of residence and other bul-
k 4-Wars
t utiri . it. decisiw+ s tiermitted. It was Hot 11.13 wish to
4.lt4it whia of then Lordships; hut having adopted
itir ' ilk:Queen would be furnished with an.equi-
' •""JitaSco Pauli:ll to every body else, they

were bound to consider well whether they should take away
from her Majesty's Counsel the privileges which they had pro-
mised ? He had understood that a reservation. of cross-exami-
nation was to be made. He was aware of the numerous in-
conveniences resulting froth' this course, but' these inconveni-
ences amounted to nothing when put its comparison with the
injury that must result from a denial Of those privileges.' There
was but one of three, courses tube adopted first was, to
abandon the prticeedings altogether. The td. was to correct
the error into_whiLit they had already falleq, by furnishing a
list of witnesses, and a specification of charges; and the
third was, to-do that which they had engaged tti do, by allow-
ing the present Counsel to reserve a cross-examination for a
• sub Sequent period. He {mete that an accumulation of diffi-
culties must necessarily arise out of the last course, but if
one of the three were not adopted. a severe' wound would be
inflicted upon the character of that House. The question
upon which they were now engaged was one upon which the
public ''opinion ought to hare an influence. 'Elie character
of that House had suffered already in the
public 'opinion, and
how much more
Would it suffer if their Lordships. consented
to depart from their rule at the suggestion of the Counsel
for the Crown ?

Lord GRENVILLE said, it was not necessary to make any
positive rule to allow the Counsel for the Crown to call a wit-
ness a second time, if any new fact or circumstance arose which
wont(' resider such second examination to the interest of their
client, since this would be granted in every Court of Justice,
and much more so in that House, which would grant, with-
out reserve and without restriction, liberty for the Counsel
to bring every circumstance forward favourable to the de-
fence. The re-examination of a witness had already been
found of great importance; [rut on Saturday their Lordships
had adopted a course of proceeding that did nut extend
but limit the right of defence. They Lad interrupted Counsel
in asking a question, which, if cross-examination was at all
to be allowed, he certainly had a right to put. But in that
interruption their Lordships looked to the effect the question
might have on a future cross-examination. Their Lordships
had, unfortunately. set the example of limiting and restrict-
, ing the cross-examination for the defence, and had thus win-
' late(' a rule they had laid down but an hour before. Their
Lordships had interrupted the Counsel in a question which,
according to the rules of law and the principles of justice,
ought to have been permitted.—(Hear, hear!)—Their Lord-
ships bad now nothing to. do
.but to recur to the course
they first adopted, which was, nut to restrain the Counsel
front putting any question which he considered of import-
ance to the interests of his client; and as, front a list of wit-
nesses having been refused, his knowledge of each witness
must be imperfect, he should afterwards be allowed to again
cross-examine any witness that he thought necessary to be
re-examined. Their Lordships ought to listen with the
must favour-11)1e ear, and to give greater latitude than in
ordinary cases. If they proceeded any further in their pro-
ceedings, this ought to he the course they should adopt.
The only question now was, what was to be communicated
to Counsel when they were called in ? If their Lordships
adopted any rule of proceeding which the Counsel thought
injurious to their client, they must hear that. Counsel. Their
Lordships, on Saturday, had acted wrong in asking Counsel
what deviation they wished from the ordinary course of ex-
amination ; for was it ever known that any Court ofJustice,
much less the High Court of -Parliament, applied to Counsel
for advice? Their Lordships should adopt -their own plan,
and, if objectionable, hear Counsel against it.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL rose tocorrect an error into whiCh
the Noble Marquis (Lansdown) had fallen. When he (Lord
Liverpool) wished to offer an equivalent to her Majesty's
Counsel for• any disadvantage under which they supposed they
laboured, by not having a-list of witnesses, an adjourned
cross-examination was never contemplated ; but that if new
facts or new circumstances rendered it necessary, the House
would feel no hesitation in allowing witnesses to be re-
examined. He wished particularly to impress on their Lord-
ships, that there was no understanding in the mind of any
iadividual, or in the House collectively, to allow an adjourn-
ed cross•examittatioo.

Earl GREY did understand that the equivalent to the de-
fence for not giving a list of witnesses was, that the Counsel
should choose their own time for the cross examination ; that
is, either to make it immediately after the examination in
chief, or to defer it altogether.
Lord REDESDALE made some remarks, which were inau-
dible below the Bar.
The LORD CHANCELLOR was proceeding to put the Re-
solution, when
The Earl of LIVERPOOL wished it to he understood, that
it was only on sonic new fact or circumstance arising that the
Counsel for the defence should be entitled to apply for a new
examination of any witness.-
A long desultory debate ensued as to the form of the com-
munication to be made to the Counsel ; the speakers were
Lord Redesdale, Lord Lauderdale, Lord Donoughmore, Mar-
quess of Lansflown, Earl Bosslyn, Lord Liverpool, Lord Ers-
kine, Lord Caernai von, and Lord Ellenborough. It was
finally ordered that Counsel should he called in.
The Counsel were then called to the bar, and those on the
part of her Majesty informed, that the order., in consequence
of which the Queen's Attorney-General had been allowed to
commence the cross-examination of the last witness pro-
duced, with the understanding of having the privilege to ad-
journ the same and resume it at a future time, bad been dis-
charged; and that it having been proposed that her Majesty's
Counsel should tie commanded to proceed with the cross-exa-
mination of witnesses immediately after the examination in
chief, as in ordinary cases, with a full claim of calling back
any witness for further cross-examination Ira case facts or cir-
cumstances not known before should come out in the inter-
val, the House was ready to hear her Majesty's Counsel
against the said proposed mode of conducting the cross-exa-
mination on behalf of her Majesty.
Mr. BROUGHANI proceeded to address their Lordships,
and observed, if difficulties had been found in the course of
proceeding, even should those difficulties be found insnr-
mountable, the fault did not rest with him or those who
acted with him. .1 he persons who 'patronized this Bill
of Pains and Penalties had universally supported the pro-
positions coming from his opponents, and had never
acceded any thing. to him. His Learned Friend now
complained of difficulties. but how did they arise ? not out
of any one of his requests being denied, but one of his wishes
being so fully and promptly granted. Even the last resolu-
I come to in this getat national drama,and which their Lot d•
ships were now about to abandon. arose out of an Act of his
Learned Friend. He had now to contend, that its all cases,
even between private individuals, the specification of time
and place, though not formally set out ou time record, was so
described as to resider it impossible to misunderstand. In
all cases an offender was told the county in which the offence
was laid. In the present case the Queen was told the acts
committed were committed in some ime of three 'quarters of
the globe—in Europe, Asia, or Aft ica ; in some part of these
countries, inhabited or uninhabited, in some of the seas:
rivers, harbours, towns, cities, or villages belonging thereto;
and the less they had been in those countries the more diffi-
cult would be the task of defeating accusation. Uudee all
these difficulties, he arid those acting with him, did humbly
conceive they understood the meaning of, and that they were,
through the,great goodness of their Lordships,to be indulged
with certain advantages in consequence of the peculiar situa-
tion of hardship in which their Lordships' wisdom had placed
them. He little dreaMt that when these advantages should
come to be sifted they would turn out only to be the indulgence
Which •any Court they would he entitled to ask for.—
The moment the extraordinary circumstances of his case
acre adverted to, and extraordinary courses were asked for
to meet it : then their Lordships reverted to Old Bailey pre-
cedents and practice, which it was said tied their hands; but
he denied that they were without precedent; there was the
ease of the Duke of Norfolk. Here the Duke gave in a spe-
cification, but her Grace was not satisfied with it, for the.
adultery was !set forth in fire parishes, and the time seven
months. Her Grace objected to this specification, and said
amend it state in what months and what parishes, and the
House ordered it; and his Grace gave in the amended speci-
fication, setting forth the months. In January, at Windsor;
in February, in St. Margaret and St. John's ; in March and
April, in Saint Martin's, and SO on ; and their Lordships gave
four days to enable her to go to Windsor, to sift the truth
of the evidence to be produced against her. Now it was not
true, that he seas not to call this case in precedent. It was
not true, that this was a solitary case. In fact, this was the
great case of authority in divorce cases, and was that on
which divorce law was founded ; and was a ease parallel, was
it not a case founded Ilene without previous proceedings in
the Courts below? Were they to say that this, which was
the great case of authority, was not to be cited. It was childish
to say so. .lug in this case one. witness swore to seeing
the parties in bed together ; another swore to seeing them in
the very Jet of adultery at Windsor; yet so full was the
cross-examination, which, hut for the indulgence given to her
'race, could not have taken place, the whole was answered
so fully, that tlre witnesses were discredited, and the Lords
threw out the Bill. The sum of the • observations lie was
about to make was, that their Lordships had considered
it right to retract the extraordinary advantages which they
contemplated to. grant on 'Saturday; and it was now said
that no cross-examination should take place, unless the
Counsel consented to make the witness his own. Whocould
look at this, and not see the crying injustice which would
arise out of such a proceeding ? He was told." Oh ! hut
we must keep to the roles of Courts of Justice." Hs would
say, fh, so, do so, by all means." It seas what he bad
proceeding
called fur from the very commencement of this

and he only called foe it in What he cousiderA as the Sive!Mt
' hour of this proceeding; for be believed it
.was nearexpiring.
But be begged of their Lordships not to grant-them in part,
not to adhere to them partially, adopting only such as tended
to benefit the King,' mid inhere the Queen. Delay was now
proposed betweeit the examination of wittiessta' on each side.
Let it be so; and
,during that delay, HO from day to day,
misrepresentation and falsehood were sure to go abroad. He
saw in an Evening Paper of Saturday st•statement, 'that the
moment a witness was about to prove the act of adultery
committed in' the Queen's bed, she was stopped by the
Queieh's Counsel. Now this was false, infamously false;
though, to make. it serve the purpose of the writer, who, he
believed,. knew it to he false at the time be wrote it, to
make it a useful lie, it was mixed up with a certain par-
tom of truth. With respect to the mode of proceeding, did
their Lordships believe that there Was any thing in the dress,
education, or habits of a Counsel, which enabled him in an
instant, having never seen a witness, or heard Of him before,
ou looking in his face, and being told by their Lordships to
cross-examine the witness, to .proceed to examination with-
out further information? Now suppose instances and acts
should vane to his knowledge of a witness being bribed,
could he call evidence to prove that ? Certainly not, unless
he had previously put the question in truss-examination- If
their Lordships should think fit to call on them to proceed
from day to day, to hear witness after witness examined as to
transactions taking place in various parts of the globe, with-
out having the power of answering them, they would then
adhere to those rules which had been adverted to. He shhuld
here conclude his address to their Lordships, but for some
misconception which appeared to have gone abroadl on their
Lordship?. minds as regarded the calling back Majocci. He
was taken as pledging himself not again to call hint back, but
what he had said was, that if indulged in the irregularity of
calling hien back, then he would nut ask the indulgence
again till he came to open his case.
Mr. DENMAN followed on the same side, and contended
there Was no security for the Queen, for the humblest sub-
ject in the realm, or for any one of their Lordships' august
House being dragged to the bar of criminal justice, at the
mercy of any perjured wretch, unless freedom of cross-exa-
mination in its fullest extent was preserved to Counsel. He
demanded nosy, on the part of the King and the subject,
the free exercise of this most importantright. He would ask,
what would he the situation of any individual brought into
Court, charged with crime, if lie might not have the oppor-
tunity of inquiry, who and what was the character of the
witness against him ? Thus in the case of high treason, a list
of the witnesses was given in the first instance, and the Crown
could afterwards add no witness to the number; thus a party
accused of high treason might set up a defence supported by
perjury. and the Government might know it, yet no new evi-
dence could be called to contradict it; this at first might ap-
pear contrary to justice, but reflection and the wisdom of our
ancestors had thought it better to risk the escape of an in-
dividual, though guilty, than that any man should he sub-
jected to have witnesses brought against hint by the State,
without having the power of 'inquiry as to the evidence to
he brought forward to substantiate the charge. He would
ask, suppose he should have received information going to
impeach the character of a witness, to load him with infamy,
but yet such information might not be so clear as to justify him
as an advocate or a gentleman in putting questions without
further information; if afterwardshe obtained that informa-
tion, was he not to be allowed to call again for such a wit-
ness. and to put the questions to him ? Another subject he
must advert to; it was apparent front the examination of the
witnesses, by some of their Lordships, that they put ques-
tions on information derived from sources closed to Coauser:
this was another subject of hardship, and he must be allowed
to say, that sinless they were now indulged in cross-examina-
tion to the fullest. extent, time best source of her Majesty's
defence would be denied to her ; and better a thousand times
would it he that they should withdraw from the contest, un-
der the feeling that time illustrious party concerned was de-
voted to destruction. He again implored their Lordships,
before they adopted this rule, to consider well the conse-
'quences; in adopting it they would not only sacrifice the in-
terest of the party in this case, but of every individual in the
country.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, anyone, to hear the
speech of his Learned Friend, would be led to believe that
their Lordships were now about to depart from some esta-
!dished rule, for the injury of an individual ; instead of dis-
cussing; how far they could grant indulgence to the accused,
by departing from certain regulations laid down by our an-
cestors its their wisdom, and whicla had been adhered to for
ages, the greater part of his Learned Friend's address had
been made up of declamation. Much had been said of the
refusal to grant a list of witnesses ; but this boasted advan-
tage, he was convinced, instead of being an advantage, was
a disadvantage to time persists accused since it obliged a prose-
cutor to give in a swelled list of witnesses to answer all emer-
gencies ; and frequently a • list of witnesses, amounting to
MO, was delivered, when not more than 10 were afterwards
found-necessary to prove the Fact, yet the accused had to
provide himself to answer every one of these witnesses,
though not a tenth of them was afterwards called. Mr. Jus-
tice Forster, observing on this Law, had lamented that for
the•sake of public justice, it was not repealed. His Learned
Friend (Mr. B.) had particularly adverted to the case of the
Duke of Norfolk. He could not have intended to mislead
their Lordships, but he had not stated time case fairly. He
could find no list of witnesses in that case, as stated by his
Lererned Friend ; and so far front the charge being confined
to fire months, it embraced a period of six years. The At-
torney-General then proceeded to read the elates in the Nor-
folk , case, to prove his statement correct. His Learned
Friend said, the Duke had beets called on by the House
to deliver in an amended specification. True, the House
lead called on bins to do so, but why was that; why be-
cause in his first specification he had only stated that the
Duchess bad committed adultery, without stating with
whom, • when, or where ; and for that reason the House or-
dered a new specification. The Learned Gentleman then
proceeded to comment on what bad fallen from the Counsel
on the other side, as to the mode of cross-examination; the
time which would be given at the conclusion. of the evidence
on the part of the Bill, would afford abundant time for in-
vestigatioa into time character of the evidence. It was his
Learned Friend who, at time twelfth hour, wished to alter his
course of examination. He contended that the best time
to cross-examine a witness, with a view to elicit truth
and promote:the ends of justice, would he to take time
examination immediately after the examination in chief.—
His Learned Friend had complained of observations in
flme Public Prints on the evidence, as reflecting on
the Queen. If his Learned Friend read . the. Papers,
he would soon discover that the witnesses and their Lordships
had much greater reason to complain than the Queen had.
He contended that all the advantage of cross-examination was
given to the Queen's Counsel, and their Lordships were now
called On to depart from the established rules for taking evidence
on the assumption, they were to adopt a course which would
render this proceeding almost indefinite. With respect to the
decision of the case, no one could look at their Lordships'
proceeding through the last week, and not see how anxious
they were to do justice to the illustrious parties concerned.
Resting on this conviction, be should conclude his Address,
assured that whatever decision they might come to, their
Lordships would only be actuated by a view of eliciting the
truth' nut only in this case, but in every case which might
come before them. •
The SOLICITOR GENERAL said, the Queen's Attorney
General had, in the course of his Address, brought charges
against himself and the King's Attorney General, as to the
manlier in which they had conducted these proceedings. If
the
have
ragnus I,:eernteds of
ie Mr. Brougham had been intended only for
their Lordships. he should not have colisidered it necessary to
but as they appeared to be intended for
other purposes, he must advert to them himself, and the At-
torney. General had been directed by their Lordships to lay
before them the evidence in support of this Bill; and in time
discharge of the duty thus imposed on them, they had endea-
stuffed to inform, themselves of the evidence, and had laid it
before their Lordships with no other view, than a view to
osomotejustiCe. He trusted their Lordships would hear tes-
timony to this fact. His Learned Friend had complained of
reflections in the public prints, on the Queen. Could his
Learned Friend ever take up a paper and not perceive that
see
tenfold.
He would
one
nextco concerned in
o w ch
apdr obceeeend istal
ds
the libels on their Lordships' Ho•use, on time witnesses, on the
hat
i‘C:',;e'srisle:i'thholding the list of witnesses; he was bold to say, that
there was no criminal charge known toour laws, although the
charge 'night go to effect the life of the indivival, in which
a list Of witnesses was given, He denied. that the supporters
of the Bill desired to depart from the regular course of jus-
tics ; un time contrary, it was his Learned Friend and his co-
adjutors who were Desirous of departing from that course
which would be pursued on any similar occasion. The
Solicitor General proceeded to cowries!, that the other
side could have no claim to the list of witnesses: the
argue»euts of the Counsel were unfounded; but his Friend
seized every argument founded or unfounded to make
out the shadow of a case. - His Learned Friend had said
he, mild not examine the wit ness of yesterday,_Why
could lie not That witness spoke to a fact at s.visich the
Quern was present, and could he most, on consulting with his
illustrious client, cross-examine her, and it any new facts
should come to his knowledge as related to this witness, she
might he re-examined on application to their Lordships. He
had on more than one occasion had reason to admire the ex-
cellent examinations of souse of their Lordships, If the cross

exaMination tt•as to be postponed, so mast these questions on
. the part of their Lordships, and though it might be said their
Lordships could put them hereafter, yet he denied that they
could ever be put with the same degree of spirit and effect,
and the examinations to forward the great object in their
Lordships' d, justice, must all take place again. The
examinations most be conducted, as he contended, in the
usual course. Cross-examination was not •only•necessary to
disci edit a witaess, but it went also to corrs►borate and
,give
strength to his testimouy. Another objection to this made of
proceeding would be, that if this indulgence was given to the
Queen's Counsel, the Counsel in support of the Hill would
have a right to ask delay as regarded the opposioglestiniony.
The Attorney-General would have a light to contend-that tilt
the evidence was entirely-closed he ought not to- be called out
to sum up. He must also object to this mode of proceeding,
as regarded the witness himself. If cross-examination :fol-
lowed examination in chief immediately, a witness might he
able to explain any thing which appeared contradictory ir► his
testimonv, but if it was to be delayed for the time mentioned,
it would be impossible for him to do so. The Solieitor-Geoe-
ral then proceeded to advert to sonic inconveniences which
such a course wools! entail on the Queen. If ion cross-exami-
nation took place after, witnesses.might be examined, and state
facts without contradiction, till contradiction became insp.,.
sible. He contended that it would be impossible to gran tlion
application of his Friend without entirely defeating the object
of the present inquiry.
Mr. BROUGHAM, in reply, denied that he had misquoted.
the Not folk case. The Counsel on the other sine assumed all
the law and all the talent on the present occasion ; those me
the Queen's side had only a book or two to depend upon. His
Learned Friends quoted from the octavo volume of Cnbhca's
State Trials, whilst he (Mr. B.) hid only the folio edition of
the Journals of their Lordships' House; and-in page 46 and
47 of the 15th volume of their Lordships' Journals he had read
the record of the Norfolk case, which he had stated to their
Lordsbips. God forbid be should triumph over his Learned
Friends, 'though they had been too apt to triumph over hint.
The Learned Counsel then proceeded to read extracts (rotation
evidence of the several witnesses examined in that case,
to shew the extent to which their Lordships suffered cross-
examinations to go in that case. Next as to a list of
'witnesses being given; here again his Learned Friends
had the advantage of Cobliett's labours ; he was sorry he bait
not that valuable hook. His Learned Friend, looking to hie
authority, said, there was no list of witnesses given: but their
Lordships' Journals again misleading, said there was a list of
witnesses. with their residence given, and other particulars.
So also the specification of times and places, for they were all
set out in their Lordships' _Journals. Now, came the King's
Solicitor-General, and of him lie stood still more in awe ; for
besides his acknowledged sone/int-it y of talent as a lawyer, be
was continually saying," You go along ; you are only the
• Queen's Solicitor, whilst I am the King's Solicitor.- Now thi s
was cruel; it would be sufficient sure that lie should de-
pend on his talent, without thus crushing his adversary with
the weight of his rank ! Surely his Learned Friend might sa-
tiate his ambition with the laurels he was daily gaining by his
• talents ; latirels, to which no triliort; of applause he could pay,
could add a single leaf. He should now contend again, that the
person accused bad a right to such a specification of time and
place, as could leave him no room to doubt. This specifica-
tion was even given in an action for debt, and in an action of
covenant the breaches would be assigned ; and he was ready
to contend, that in nn civil action was a defep:la•A left in ig-
norance how, when, and where the cause of action arose. In
an indictment, a matt was not tried for any felonious inter-
course, for a • long life of criminal acts; but he was tried rita
some specific charge. Mitch had also been said of adhering
to precedents, and their, ,Lordships were now about to lay
down a rule as related to Pains and Penalties. Was it likely
then that Bills of this description should come so commons
that it was necessary to lay down a rule never to be departed.
from? Was it necessary that their Lordship, should now lay
down a rule never to he departed from, let who would he eon-
victed, guilty or innocent, by adhering to it. ? Was it likely
that at any early day another Bill of Pains and Penalties
would be introduced against a Queen? It was-now said.
that better that 10 persons should be convicted, than the es-
tablished rule broke down. He would say, better ten escape
who were guilty, than their Lordships forfeit their characterfor
justice. :tiro lied seen, in. the course of these examination.,
the facilities with which hfs Learned. Friends could get their
witnesses o►er. If they did not come willingly—if bribes
could nut induce them—they were forced by their Govern-
ments to come over. Would the saute aid be given to the
Queen ? Would she have assistance to find her witnesses;
and when found, would they be forced to come over ? On

the contrary, had he not reason to doubt that those Govern-
ments which forced the witnesses for the King to come over
would be ready to prevent the Queen's witnesses leaving the
places where they resided ? Under all the circumstances of
the case, he implored their Lordships not to suffer themselves
to be confined by precedents and rules of Law Courts, but to
adopt the only course which could do_ her Majesty justice.
Lord LIVERPOOL said, it being now five o'clock, he shooki
move that their Lordships do adjourn, thus taking till to-
morrow to-deliver their opinion ; and previous to their doing
so, he must say a word or two, in answer to what had fallen
from the Learned Counsel on the subject of witnesses heist:-
brought over. It was right that their Lordships should know
her Majesty's Legal Advisers had the power of drawing an
unlimited amount for the purpose of enabling her Majesty to
provide for her defence, firing over witnesses, and all other
purposes connected with these proceedings. As to witnesses
being forced to come over where bribes would not operate; be
must declare he knew of no installed where bribes had been
offered. Some Governments had the poww•er to force their sub-
jects over, others had nut that power ; but he moist he per-
mitted to say, that in those countries where the Government
had the power it roilld he equally exerted to aid the Queen
•in bringing over her witnesses as it load been to send over
those who came to support the Bill. It was only on condition
that each party should possess equal advantages that he would
be a party in such a proceeding as the present.—(Hear!)
Lord V.R.SKINE said, be certainly did not rise to ohjectto

the adjournment, though he was convinced it was utterly itn—
possible their Lordships should ever accede to the rule of law
now contended for by the Counsel for the Co•oml. It would
l►e most expedient, however, that their Lordships should take
time until to-morrow to consider the arguments they had
heard, and now adjourn, and lie trusted they would now Ile
disposed to do at last what should hare formed part of their
preliminary proceedings, namely, grant to her Majesty a list
of those witnesses which yet remained to be examined, with
a specification of the times and places where the alleged of—
fences are said to have been committed.

The House then adjourned at a quarter past fire o'clock.

SOMRESET ASSIZES.—At these Assizes a cause
was tried, BINGHAM Y. GARDENER., which ex-
cited much interest. Our readers will recol-
lect, that in Mavlast, it was stated in the News-
papers that a lady (Mrs. Bingham, the plaintiff,)
was charged with having stolen a ,1. note from
a box which was held by k person for a charita-
ble collection, at the door of the Octagon Chapel,
Bath; it appearing that the articles in the News-
papers which charged the lady with this offence
were written by Dr. Gardener, (who 'preached
at the Chapel on the 'occasion) the lady brought
an action against the Doctor, for what she con-
sidered a libel on her character ; the cause was
tried before Mr. Justice Burrough and a Special
Jury ; after the evidence had been gone through
on both sides, the Judge summed up ; he de-
sired the Jury to place themselves in the same
situation as if the circumstances had been brought
before them on a criminal indictment as a Graced
Jury. If the evidence was sufficient to warrant
their considering the act as one of a felonious na-
ture, they must find for the defendant; but if
they deemed the defendant's evidence not com-
pletely sustantiated, then must they find damages
against him. The Jury, by their Foreman, Sir
T. B. Lethbridge, Bart. M. P. after consulting
twenty minutes, returned n verdict for defendant.
Mr. Serjeant Pell was employed for the lady,
and wept profusely (as did many others in
Court) while • making his reply.—Both partieS
move In the first circles in Bath; the plaintiff is
a maiden lady, 70 years of age.

A Monument to..the memory of the late la-
Theiard Duke of KENT is proposed to be erected by subscrip-
lion; and we understand that a committee is,about to be
formed here, of those friends of his itortl Highness to whoin
in his life time he was endeared hy numerous acts of kindness.,
and those si,turs which shed a lustre un,his exalted mks-4
(Plyin6ulle. and Dock Telegraph.)