The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-13 00:00:00

IMPMAL PARLIAMENT

HOUSE. OF LORDS, July 12.
EMPLOYMENT 'IN MINES, &c.
The Earl of GALLOWAY presented a petition from
Callander, and other places in Scotland, in favour of
Lord Ashley's Bill.
BIRMINGHAM POLICE.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition, signed by
15,000 inhabitants and rate-payers of Birmingham, pray-
ing that the House would take some means to reduce the
expenses of the Police force, and that they might be re-
lieved from the present charter of incorporation.
SUDBURY DISFRANCHISEMENT.

The NOBLE LORD also presented a petition from the
Mayor and inhabitants of Sudbury, against the disfran-
chisement of that borough. The petitioners stated that
they thought Sudbury was no worse than a great many
other boroughs,, and that ,a whole borough ought not to
be punished for the delinquencies of a few. .
MINES AND COLLIERIES BILL.
BROUGHAM presented several petitions from
places in Shropshire, Yorkshire, and other mining dis-.,
tricts, some in favour of, and some against this Bill.
Numerous petitions for and against Lord Ashley's
Mines and Collieries Employment Bill, were presented
by the Earl of Wicklow, Lord Monteagle, Earl Stan-
hope, the Earl of Scarborough, and Lord Denman.
EDUCATION.—HULLAH'S SYSTEM.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE laid upon the table the
Report of the Education Committee of her Majesty's
Council, and said he had also to present, pursuant to
notice, a petition from 1,600 persons who had been in-
structed in music at Exeter Hall, chiefly at the expense
of an institution, which was endeavouring to disseminate '
as widely as possible a taste for music and other ele-
ments of a refined reduction amongst the humbler classes
of their countrymen. The petitions prayed that Perlin-
ment would render pecuniary assistance to enable
those persons . effectually to execute their ad-
mirable designs. Those persons first thought
that the best means of disseminating amongst
the people a taste for this science would be by teaching
music to schoolmasters and schoolmistresses. They
commenced on this plan in 1841, entirely at their own •
expense, but after it had become known that the school-
masters . !
and mistresses derived so much advantage, the
desire seized numerous mechanics and artisans to be
allowed to participate in it, and at the present moment
there were no less than 50,000 persons, in fifteen classes,
receiving instruction. Those persons desired to have
the means of acquiring, in a similar Manner, a knowledge
of other elements such as arithmetic and linear ,
drawing. Several Noble Lords were present, as well
as himself, at the choral meeting which was held
at Exeter-hall for the purpose of showing what had
been the proficiency of Mr. Hullah's class there in a very
short time—(Hear, hear)—and he could appeal not only
to them 'for the extraordinary proficiency, but he could
state a foreign musician of eminence—indeed it was Men-
delssohn—expressed to him his delight and astonish- .!;,
ment, and his conviction that Mr. Hullah had conferred'
upon his country the greatest possible benefit.--(Hear,
bear.) The Committee of the Council had had applicat•
tions from all.. parts of the country for assistance in
carrying Mr. Hullah's system into effect, and they found `-lje
that the grant of 30,0001. was altogether insufficient In
meet the desire for education which pervaded the ??
country. They had money granted for the establish'
ment of schools, but what was the good of schools unless
they had good schoolmasters?—(Hear, hear.) There 'pri
was a school under the management of Mr. Stowe at 1
Glasgow, and though that school produced excellent
schoolmasters, they did not seem to work together with
the General Assembly. The Government then agreed •
to- give : 5,0001. towards the establishment of l;
normal school-in Glasgow, and 5,000/. towards a normal, -
school in Edinburgh, provided the management ot
those schools were allowed to reside in the hands of the
General Assembly The Whiale of Scotland was now
provided with efficient schoolmasters. Other sums of
money were granted for the establishment of schools all
over the country, and numerous applications had been
made, on the part of others, to provide them with nor-
mal schools. Their Lordships must see, that if they; ,f'd
assented to all these requests, the demand for money
must far exceed the small sum annually allowed by Par-
liament for the purposes of education and school build-
ing. There was one part of the,present system to which
he objected as unnecessary and expensive, and that was
the system of inspection and reporting to Parliament.
He could not see what reason there was for reporting to
Parliament the state of every one of those schools, which
would lay open the managers of any of them, at any time,
to attacks in the House of Commons. He was of opinion,
however, that reports should be made to the Council Of
Education and the Diocesan ; but, for anything more
than that, he certainly could not see the necessity. He
could not help thinking that if Parliament would
grant the requisite funds, he was sure no one would
grudge the money, and they should go on so rapidly ill'.
the course of education, that England would, in a veil
short time, be the best educated country in the world.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was glad to see that
,(41i
the Noble Lord opposite was prepared to extend and
carry out that system which had, for the last few years,
been adopted to improve the education of the country-.
The Noble Baron, in presenting the petition, had stated
clearly and distinctly to the House the whole of the'
circumstances attendant upon the introduction of the
wonderful system of singing taught by Mr. Hullah-
He, from the first, was convinced that the experiment (A,
Mr. Hullah would succeed ; and the success had beef'
infinitely greater than he had anticipated. Immediately ~
after the first class was announced at Exeter Hall.l',
seventy persons subscribed their names ; and by the
time that class had gone through the course,
three other classes of one hundred persons - each
were formed, and there were now fifteen classes, ;';',/
attended by 2,500 persons at a time. He agreed with
the Noble Baron (Lord Wharncliffe) as to the excellent
influence of musical education upon the working daises,
and he hoped that Parliament would empower the Con'
mittee of the Council to give pecuniary assistance for
the extension of this kind of education. But he hoped
such assistance would not be rendered by a deduction
rom the present grant.—(Hear, hear.) Those who re-
commended the grant were told that they would fail fir
their object of creating a desire for education ; but
happily, as the Noble Lord (Wharncliffe) had testified,'
the result was, that an extraordinary stimulus had been
given to that desire, which was now so great as to re'
quire a very much larger sum than Lad been placed at
the command of the Council to meet it.—(llear, hear.) ,
-A great stimulus had been given to the benevolent to
promote education from private sources, in which they
would have despaired to embark, if they were not en-
couraged by the hope of assistance from the Govern' ,0;4
ment fund.—(Hear, hear.) The result of the experi-
ment showed that there could be no better instrument for
carrying a national system of education into effect titan
the Committee of Council, both in respect to inspection
and control. But a much larger sum than had been
hitherto granted was necessary to carry the system into •
full effect, and even in these times of distress he did n";
think that a grant could be more beneficially applie'e
In the vicissitudes to which the trade and manufactures ca
this country were liable, what could be more desirable than
to place the working man in a condition, by superior
education, to transfer his labour from one branch of in •
dustry to another?—(Hear, hear.) The Noble MaratlP
then read an extract from the evidence of a foreign In%
nufacturer, who employed a number of persons of various
countries, Saxon, Swiss, and English, who stated that anr
Englishman in his own particular branch was superi°,l
to the others, but that on account of the more halite':
nature of his education, he was as able as the Swiss, tafr
less so than the Saxon, to adapt himself to ernergencies--f
apply himself on an occasion to another branch of wall;.
—(Hear, hear.) He concluded by thanking the Noble
President of the Council for his statement, and expres'
sing his concurrence in his views.
Lord BROUGHAM believed that his two
Friends, the present Lord President of the Council, 00,1
the late Lord President of the Council, would Wee , '
that he should offer them his thanks for their gratifyieb
statements. But he differed from them in this, that ibis
did net think that education could progress too rapidly
although he had always been glad to assist its progros
however moderate, however slow. There was one path
of the Noble Baron's statement which he had heard 0..
regret ; it was, that 5,0001. had been given to certsl7
schools in Scotland, on condition that they were rb
under the management of the General Assembly. Tholi,
he (Lord Brougham) entertained the highest respect lurs
the General Assembly, he did think that the Dissent!,
should be allowed to enjoy the advantages of 'tll°.
grants to a certain extent ; he should, therefore, beg „e
suggest that a portion of the grant should be given !Orli
body in Scotland, answering to the British and Form
Bible Societies, if there were such a body. 811
Lord WHARNCLIFFE said it would be time enatluep
to think about allowing grants to the Dissenters 1"
they built normal schools.
The matter then dropped.
DRAINAGE BILL.
This Bill was read a second time.
DRAINAGE (IRELAND) BILL.
This Bill was read a second time.
MINES AND COLLIERIES BILL. this
Earl DEVON postponed the second reading °`
Bill till Thursday next. •
BANKRUPTCY BILL. oord'
The LORD CHANCELLOR stated that, in ae
ad co
since with a request which he had received, he h.., fon
sented to postpone the second reading of this Dal
Thursday till Monday next.
Their Lordships adjourned at a Quarter to Bight'

9r:

~iM .

HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 12.
POOR-LAW AMENDMENT BILL•a, use brti e
On the motion of Sir R. PEEL, that the 4.°
into Committee on this Bill, •
fr6l/1' n..'"
Captain PECHELL presented several petitions Ater Iltis
Chester, Sundridge, East Grinstead, and vari°ll9 ?
places, against the Bill.
Mr. LIDDELL rose, pursuant to notice, to put of• state ~;," or;
tion to the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary- °'-%efir."_,lly,
for the Horne Department, relative to the powers
dent
cised by tne Central Board of Commissioners tullie:;(lll.i!,4,;Qt
eleventh clause of the Irish Poor-law Act—viz-, ro-Cetr '-14111,01
legation of the whole powers and authority of tu,sobs
tral Board, in reference to the administration the
~,11,.;(
English Poor-law, to any one Commissioner,
to 7 .')
consent of the Secretary of State. He wished t° loaf.
whether that clause was intended to extend to Ire out H;
and if it did, whether they were prepared to carrY • ,
the provisions of the Bill in that country ? to
Sir JAMES GRAHAM did not think it eecessa
00•
enter at length into the subject raised by bise
Friend. It must be well known that when tb
b bat the- •
Act was passed it was not considered necessarY id, but
number of Commissioners should be increase,rehol.
• 7
was considered necessary that one should be ill ". A.et
and that he should have all the powers give° bYA ttbaet the
to the Commission itself. He, therefore, ni0"0114
Speaker do now leave the Chair. ~,bt goo. "
Mr. THOMAS DUNCOMBE asked the Rill before
Baronet if he seriously intended to press this
the Commission had expired ? A fortnightedsto Core
had proposed that a short Bill should be P 4435
Btllince be. •

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