The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-07 00:00:00

MUSEUMS OF ART.

Sir R. PEEL said that the subject of which the Hon.
Gentleman had alluded, ha I not altogether escaped his
attention. But many suggestions of a similar kind
were made, such of which, individually considered, was
worthy of public favour, and of those suggestions he
could only select such as appeared to be most im-
portant. They had turned their attention to the im-
provement of the geological museum, and be hoped
that they would be enabled, in the course of the present
session, to make some proposal for the purpose
of promoting greater access to this improved geological
museum. He concurred with the lion. Gentleman in
the great advantage which would result from the encou-
raging and promoting a love of art ; but he advised the
House to be cautious in giving extensive power of taxa-
tion to municipal bodies.—(Hear, hear.) The Hun.
Gentleman was anxious to see a museum of art. An .
other Hon. Member wished to give municipal bodies
powers of taxation, for the purpose of purchasing paces
of recreation; and there was another object, perhaps of
more importance than either, for which local taxes
should be levied—namely, the ventilation and the im-
proving of the salubrity of towns. But they ought to be
cautious, lest they should make the taxes for those pur-
poses too expensive ; and thereby create a prejudice
against those objects, which they thought so necessary.
—(Hear, hear.) He would advise the Hon. Gentleman,
therefore, to limit himself to his own particular, plan,
and not to incorporate other purposes with it. There
was a great disposition amongst those who prospered by
manufacturers to remember the obligations which they
owed to those through whom they derived their wealth,
and to coatribute largely to the purposes of art.—(Hear.)
He hoped they would take care not to check this dispo-
sition to contribute, by making it a subject of local
taxation. At any rate, he hoped that these town
councils would think it preferable to try to raise as large
a sum as possible by voluntary contribution. He believed
if town councils should vote large sums for the purpose
of establishing museums of this kind, providing the
buildings and purchasing the objects for exhibition, they
would in many cases throw the public money away.
But, if the town councils would call on the affluent con-
nected with the place to contribute a certain specific sum
for the purpose of establishing these museums, stating
that, when established, they would undertake, by an
annual rate, to provide for the permanent charges of
the superintendence, they wou!d by that means induce
many to contribute for this purpose. In the case of
building churches, it had been found that many
persons would advance a certain sum of money
over which they would have some control, who
would not consent to burden their property for
that purpose. Where the authorities had said,
" If you will provide the edifice, we will guarantee
a permanent endowment for it," it was gratifying to
observe how willingly assistance was given. He be-
lieved town councils would find many persons, in places
where manufactures were prosperous, who would be
willing to make presents of objects of art, or of large
sums of money to be paid at once, if they were assured
that a museum would be permanently provided. He hoped
the Hon. Gentleman would consider this suggestion,
and that if he gave town councils any power to raise
money at all, it would be made subserviect to private
contributions.

Lord J. MANNERS said he should be happy to see
the proposition of the Hon. Member carried into effect.
If the Hon. Member for Montrose would renew his Bill
-he should be happy to support it. There was a growing
desire on the part of the people to provide means of
public recreation. lie had the pleasure and gratification
of living in a large house where there were many works
of art ; he had witnessed persons going there who were
delighted with what they saw, but he had never heard of
a single instance of any of those works being injured by
the visitors there. He could not sit down without offer-
ing his praises to her Majesty's Government for the care
they had taken of works of art, and for their restoration,
particularly in Glasgow and Elgin.
Mr. BROTHERTON thought' it most important in
large communities that something should be done, not
only to improve the public taste, but the morals of the
people. Schools of design were sot sufficient, museums
were necessary, and if established he would venture
to say they would act as a sort of moral
police. In the great town of Manchester a tax
of a halfpenny in the pound would enable parties
to erect a building that would cost 50,0004 and in that
building might be placed works that would greatly con-
tribute to the delight, the improvement, and the educa-
tion of the people. In the town of Manchester alone, so
well did the people appreciate the value of such institu-
tions, that they had collected about 30,000 i towards

making a public park, and he was happy to say that tt
Right Honourat le Baronet opposite had contributed tat
munificent sum of 1,0001. towards this park.—(Greed
cheering.) But public parks could not be WO
by the people at all seasons of the year, partial"
larly in an uncertain climate like this, and War;
fore the greater necessity for public measures, 1"'
they would t only have the effect of elevating
the minds and improving the morals of the lower class!!!
but they would also eventually withdraw them from the
public-houss, where they now too often spent their earn;
ings in di .sipetion, and convert them at length ei
t 0
sort of morel police for the prevention of many crimes' to
(Hear, hear.) Besides, when once these amusevvell
were established, they would he sure to receive contrib:
Lions from gentlemen who could not heretofore tides
their property to the old corporations, for those b051i...,"
had no object but their own gratification in feastiePes
(Hear, hear.) He lad great pleasure in supporting luof
proposition. He thought it would elevate them ind," 0
the people, and raise science to a still higher posi'''
than it at present enjoyed.
Mr. HUTT highly approved of the measure, and (!ehe'
served that nothing could be more successful than ro
schools of design. Schools of design had been openlo
Newcastle, Sheffield, and Birmingham, which bad bee
attended with the greatest advantage, and works he"
been produced by than which were objects of &doltl;
Lion in every capital in Europe. Englishmen engil
be as renowned fur works of taste as they were for
cess in commerce and manufactures, and nothing •
more effectually raise the minds of the people from gem
and sensual pursuits than such pursuits.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said there was so little di it
of sentiment on this subject, that he did not thins
would be necessary fur him to trouble the House at erti
length. Ile would, however, express his hearty concur.
0:
rence in the views of the Hon. Member for Duraf,er'ee
and his hope that his wishes would be realised. eof
country was indebted for the establishment of schoole.Z.
design to his lamented friend, the late Lord Sidniotafe
Those who live in the principal seats of nianufec‘ab%,
ought to have an opportunity of improving their 10°,4
the exhibition of the best works of art. Sir Frutl'es
Chantrey had assured him that it was from the f°6
- s
these classic models being continually before his eee
he was indue, d to turn his mind seriously te'c'ere
the fine arts as a profession. In the large towns evert
stranger, on visiting them, must be agreeably ate
with the feelings of pride and pleasure with Which •
citizens regarded any work of art they happen 10360.
sess. He did not share in the fears the Right unt
Baronet seemed to entertain that the councils 1/°„..
spend any of the money entrusted to them for theses 13",
poses wantonly. Let them consider the benefits Fills,ce,
had derived from the establishment of schools of tj
sign, and from the exhibition of works of merit, 67,
the superior skill and perfection she had thereby .150'0
rived at in some kinds of manufactures. The clues/rp
was of national importance, and he was glad to °ee
much unanimity in the House on the subject. iK
Mr. SHEIL "hoped one of the provisions of the os
would be to enable the working classes to visit rane°o4
on Sundays. That was the only day they could alt'
such places. Surely it could not be said that so ha
t,e
°—
less a recreation was a desecration of the Sabbath ? tre.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill ;
Ewart and Mr. Wyse to prepare it.
PRISONER'S COUNSEL BILL 0011
Mr. EWART moved for leave to bring in e
enabling the defendant's counsel in civil, and the
Jury
soner's counsel in criminal cases, to address the PEW
the close of the evidence for the prisoner or def°l'e of
The most eminent lawyers in Westminster Hall were,
opinion that a change in the present system wu'enthete
sary, and it was with the concurrence of many °'
that he brought it ferward. The present hardshiP• too
that the defendant or prisoner called witnesees'oet,
speeches would be made for the plaintiff or Eros°
and only one for the defendant or prisoner. Thies'ooe of
cially in criminal cases, was a gross injustice, en", foe
counsel, sooner than subject themselves to a rerY oee
the prosecuting counsel, forbore to call any n'i'",„e ned
Another hardship was, that if witnesses were —OO
for the defence, and their testimony did not, °oat
respect, confirm the statement of the defendant's le 00
an unfavourable and unjust impression might be 03,ad fie
the Court and jury, and the defendant's counsel 'II ee°
opportunity of reconciling little inconsistencies, tinbt be
planting trifling misunderstandings, which 034 ased'
productive of the greatest disadvantage to the sec tail
Again, different modes of practice prevailed o°loiy#,
matter, and it would be desirable to estsblishunif°„eres of
In the Sessions Court in Scotland, in the Coint°1,,„"0010
that House, and other places, the defendant'e,n, jOO
had the right of reply, which he thought scus-eee
and reasonable. He did not move to ask for,e" eve
bring in a Bill, but only requested that the kl7injoel•
the Government would devote its attention to the a"
Mr. lIITAIE seconded the motion. be or
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL could not 6SI,pM
proved of such a measure as that contemplated 'La
if
Hon. Member, although at the same time he 987",7,
many of his observations. He felt the diffiu'Vedt°.
which the prisoner often stood, but at the same reseDi
not think that any serious evil accrued from the Pests°
system. The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the 'silo*
in Parliamentary Committees and elsewhere, of be
the speeches of defendant's counsel, but that ell elee°i:
felt to be so inconvenient that they were shoat ted'"
doning it, and adopting the same plan asereft:ootec
Westminster Hall.—(Hear, hear.) The xl°""sat
Gentleman had not brought in a motion wor
Bill, but had moved for an inquiry. He (the AtFor
General) thought the better course would hfee 00"
Hon. and Learned Friend to refer this inqui:esuirli
Commissioners who were already appointed for °
into the working of the criminal law. On
that Commission he would find the names ce
who were men of great experience, and whose likwe
sees, in his (the Attorney-General's) opinion, /e,r,ssiej°?
to be satisfactory to the country. They were
not only into the principles, but also into the "tee
the effect of this alteration in the practices of this floe'
nor courts at Westminster. The inquiry °Yodel
and Learned Friend was, in fact, a portion 0' be ll°
of that Commission ; but if, after their decision;ioolo'
still anxious for further elucidation, he (the .Ahsee
General) was sure that the Government would
,$) the
M
objection to the inquir.
r. HUME, said thy iron
at after what had fallen ito reolt
Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite, h° ,e
that nothing could be more proper, or ni°re 31150
better, and he would advise his Hon. Friend to ee I
his motion, and leave the matter in the hands he
Government. Once* 04
Mr. EWART said that, under the WOO ov. tict
fully saw the propriety of acceding to biletser cos
Learned Friend. He was satisfied that the In" e Oho
not be in better bands ; and he should, therePrireve
as
the advice of his Hon. Friend, beg leave to v''
motion. •

The motionSA was then withdrawn.
LE OF HAFOD ESTATE. , his V,
Mr. HUME said, that in the absence hebfic'
Friend the Member for Coventry, he w°,ll,;cl 10, -,1;
make the motion of which he had given notic-',,, sifj.;; 0
ing so, however, he did not feel it his duty.t° tos'Yet
word, and he should simply put the motion in or Fore to
the Noble Lord at the head of the Woods anfects,4
an opportunity of making a statement of he
!owe%
which the motion referred. He then, for th: dvs the
of Coventry, moved for copies of all survey -„Ø„ to
fed
tions of 7,438 acres 36 rood.; of land beloagiirs
Crown, adjoining to the Duke of Newetot,,ja t° her.
estate, in Cardiganshire, which has been
Grace by private contract for 1,0491 15s. "00d P"ici
Majesty's Commissioners of Woods, Forests, 00/A
Revenues, as stated in Appendix, No. 2 (A), I°.r 5 of r
O
Commissioners' report for 1844 ; and also
correspondence relating thereto. 110
.d not / for
The Earl of LINCOLN said that he di „,crober efi
from meeting the motion of which the Ilon. Aiht he'ol
Coventry bad given notice ; and he only thoug voiles to
unfair and improper not personally to Pot $ reseaci,
this nature before the House, and bethere 1) 0,00
0 e 0,
support it. The House must be aware thathiro
bpi'
dently intended to cast a slur upon him—t° throw
tot syber,
picion around his proceedings—and exten a woe
v.,
eion to the Government of which he was 0600' ht
He should just make these preliminary obser._are 011,50
cause he felt that, as a public servant, tn And
to he no suspicion resting upon feeliegf,;o,
said this, not only in justification of his ownte sbe
such public servant, but also out of respect, been Vie
vernment of which he formed a part. It haoution of ro,
posed that the transaction to which the 01 „coo of
Hon. Gentleman referred was a contract the p
self (the Earl of Lincoln) and his father, tn
of 1101‘13
Newcastle. That was not the case. The estate
_d opott,l,
had been in the possession of Colonel Johns, Is".chiell
certain claims had been made by the Crliwu'ci"to 011.0:
Colonel, and subsequently his devisee refusf
The estate had been put up for sale by ten_eftsle
and, in order to clear the title, and make th
marketable, it had been veined by two geonir,
Morgan on the part of the Crown, and and
Murray, on the part of Colonel Johns 032, wht
e,t,
visees. These circumstances oceurred in theWoouct.
Lord Duncannon was at the head 01_501100,0,
and Forests, and they were Piciad
the proceedings of the deviaces of Lo: arid ,be
with which the Duke of Newcastle need o`-' eof
not hail anything to do. The Puke'sePlicidcb°4t
estate was a subsequent transaction;
at the auction at all. Mr. Moro
of the property was 8,061 acres, and thateentivery ` c),ci
led
thatt.le :th!itieesotetfrolv,
was 1,098/.—(Laughter.) This might. anhe belle
se
ordinary to some Gentlemen opposite, p ,00 II
(rig,
should be able very briefly to exP_lsul could he,lect
was aware that no property of the urow_ea _cereal.
posed of except under the valuation 0f,,,,,!:t vela
surveyor, upon oath.—(Hear, hear.)so ;12.. 040,0
had been made and stated upon oath, a
Mr. 3liirrsi 14c
valuation was 1,0981., while that of
6321.—(Hear, hear.) The fact was, in ordesrscatert;aeitlioer
sale of the estate at all, it was necessary to
d Colonel J0h,0,0
extent of the rights of the Crown, ai t
of the Crus
,
his devisees, though they derried the
nrsign
idered tha.,:eurse
to any portion of the estate, yet cto
arsne the :10, tto
matter of prudence, it was better
they had taken, than contest these °riPginhtrattlinrucrervsthrie
unclear sale. This valuation waSs,.
B.
ASa
authority of Lord Duncannon and ir Ste rge
as Commissioners of the Woods aitlind.it'ohreesgtsc;nse
ready to produce that authority; a
see, by the survey made under it, thast thTeneextfiel'ont_iloteiern
land was, as he had stated, " e;errs°:
also probably aware that in order
8,061 act"-,
:,convey
ust $ -.tree"
which the Crown had ally rate, there ranee
d :hand3fr,
to Trno,onby,
beiog.
of the Treasury. He was ready
signed by Lord Nugent. Sir John 0
fod est° the
Baring, Lords of the Treasury for the irn9 te,
In one of the conditioas of sale of thetnll: pot
iefveri
was stated that the Crown laid
waste lands, but that the right ocflatidlanienoCor°brelletittiausc7l'aeisl,lllo
purchased, and the venders stipulate
en
..
of the
~ess
be taken by the purchaser in conostqeuniaco
jeon oceirvertt7ol
of the Crown to any rights t
for Sto b° f°°
estates. It was not universal 59, C They __,,
and the warrants to be issued tifterwardi_teigoo,
that the warrant, in this instance, was "