The Sun.
London, England, 1816-03-05 00:00:00

13,1111)EN1:10.

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.
. • .
is also natural-to expect, .oat •prudent
.iokistriOus man, contemplation of otarriage,
,shoulitmake choice-of a partner of like views 'and
habits. with himself. We. may calculate such a
prudent. woman to have saved 2UI. or 3t91.:
tf • Now, we will suppose a Maniied couple to
begin the world with a capital between them.uf
1201. ; irf this suns 201. way be set apart for fur-
nishing their .cottage (if in .the country), or a
tooth in town)-, and - 1001. w,ll remain to. be left
at interest. They, may live comfortably (oeseve-
ral yc.o.'S without breaking upon their .capital,
even should they liNyu U • or4itco children; the
:interest will pay their rent,. or perhaps something
More, . Unt..shuold.:they have a large family, the.
increase, ot young children will prevent the mo-
that 'l,4,in cabliibuting7 mucb towards •Opeout-
vino, and the children themselves can, for seine
years, earn nothing t. under this pressure, it must
tie expvcted, that something he with-drown.
from the capital ; but.it was laid by for this .very
-porpose,. and ac can_atiord to :allow it. Let 51.•
per week be tah.en for tour winter months, this
tvi.ll render the industrious faMily comfortable,
and supposing this Arra to have.been coin Muer!
during ten years, the capital has only lost 401.
Front tbis.tinie the,chiltreu will contribute
towards - the support at the family,
WrailloW,ceases-to he a growingbuttleen, and
there remains amatairr•stork to set time children
OctvArd iu lite, forliicknessr or for the wants and
to Cmiti es. of 4ge.f,'.

This simple statement of Mr. Davis, be as
intelligible is it is.- satisfactory; and.may be made
to produce the moat exttosive.benefit, by being
published,. in and in posting bills,•
among the.poor. • . . •
~The higher classes, likewise, have. tin . interest
in. these. objects : not only on the general prinei,
pie, that , the interest of our fellow-creatures .at
large. ic,our • own interest; and the cause .of the
poor,, thereause of the rich,,but, in at more, direct,
manner, because societies,on this stile and simple
as they Leach the poor man todepend
onthintsalf, will powerfully check the enormous.
and ..peeiraps.: progressive, increase .of the pones
tialee-Tetind, by the intervention of ashigher order of
manogirs, will effectually preient 'those illegal
combination's among :•worktnen, which. the ale-
house meetings of, the Friendly• societies afford .nt
,present the- opporl (wit y and-the Cover
-The-,public attention seems- nowawakened to
this great and universally interesting subject ;
amt. captor help brkieving that were a conve7
nista' plan at had, ready drawn out in a p:acticul
form, the Magistrates undother gentlefuen of the
'counties, and the leading inhabitants of. towns
(where such institutions. are most especially'use-
would.'• gladly avail ,themselvetof the sug•.
gestion for the benefit .ottlieir own poor, either
in• the shape presented to, theni, or with such inn.-
difications a 1 their better judgments •..tnay, deem
mos t applicable to circumstances of • each
neighbourhood. The plan which I annex,. per*
ticularly the Gth clause of it, is the result of long
and patient -consideration t I have adopted into.
It particular provisions, trout other systems at-
ready'. executed wish effect, particularly from
those of Southampton and Bath : and I•trust that
the notice of it, in .your Paper, will-draw the at-
tention' of those among your readers, who know
the value of-the maxim, that .the best way of help-

ing'thc poor, is to teach them to help themselves.
The officers, of the parishes and townships, from
their constant inretcoarse with the poor, have
pcculiorly the means, as•well as theomotive, fur
the .ettentmagenteut of these. h4I Vilf g 8 and on
families' may promote the object in en
111011iiert eqtlanation and recommendation

• •• . .
at it td their own servants and dependants.
I tini, Sir, Your obedient Setvant,
4) Inner Teuiplc "Lane, ' 110,641(.1i TWiSO•
inlon, 14n• 1414.

Petitions were presented from the County of
Monmouth, front Litchfield, from Macelesfieja,
from Bridgewater, from High tVyciimbe, from
Belford, front South Moltott, in the Conti( y of -De-
vonshire, from Caine, froM Wigton, trout the pa-
rish of St. George.the Martyr, Southwark,:from
the ward of Dnwgpte (signed by all the inhabitants
except one), from- Loitheth, front the County of
Hourtagdon, from Norman Cross, from Mile-end
Old Town, from St..Litke's, Chelsea, against the
Property Tax, . •
Mt% (irteraett. had stated on a former evening,
that the Commissioners of ',fetus at Someqet
House had exercised their authority in art oppres-
sive manner, and had assigned that, among other
reasons, for his intention to vote against the tax.
He shotthithat evening Move, utiess the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer requested a .previous
notice, that a copy of the cOrrespondence betwixt
the Commissioners of Taxes and a mercantile
house.in the city, should lie hihl before the Houtie,..
which setters) show that his MIMICS Were not
made without just grounds.
Sir KNATCHntici., its presenting a Petition
front Woolwich, directed the attention of Minis-
ters to tli.tr language of the Peritinnet,:z and called
upon 'hefty to answer it . The Petitionersde-
scribed themselves to have borne with patience
the burden of the Property Tax during the war,
relying on .the -pledge which been given 'to
them, Met they'sluould be -relieved frPot it so
soon et peace returned. To this they stated the
Governaient to have beet, pOsitively pledged,_
The' present wns the first opportnnity.he had had
in this Session of addressing the House no the
subject, and he was now free to confess, that un-
less Government intended the Tax should he very
much modified, he should feel it
,his ditty to
pose the renewal of it ; but at the saute time, be
:wished to be distinctly understood to give no opi-
nion, for or against it, at present. lle chould be
glad to hear What' the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer ticould have to state`to the House on Wed-
nesday or'fintr.sday. Till he was in possession of
this, he could not make up his mint! on the sub-
ject. .A.Requisition for a County Meeting on the
ariertifces eumpliained of under the present Tithe
Law, had been already avined ;.--and a second
ltaiiteett7prepared, calling iota Meeting to Obn-
sider of, petitioning Parliament against the re-
newel of the Property-Tax. He would not an-
ticipate the result-of the proceedings on this
Lion, but under all circumstances, he was inclined
to hope the Chancellor of the Exchequer would
'abandon hiepresent pion.
"'The CH&NestLott of the EXCHEQUER thought •
he did himself and his coustituente great honortr;
by the 'course which he had-thought it his duty to
take on the present occasion, in deeliolug to give
an opinion for (Jr against the proposed measure,
till the gromids ow which it was brought forward
had been fully stated to the House. He' was quite
ready to declare. to the lion. Baronet, that the
Petitioners, With: 'respect to the supposed pledge
which it was said had been given, were cum-
pletely mit:Woe:tied. On the first intrmluctioniof
the IncomeiTax by Air. Pitt, instead of aldedge
being given that it should cease at the conclusion
of. the war, ituprodoce was actually moltgaged
for 36j000;0014., a suns which it would take eight
years- to pay off. From this it was clear, that he
(Mr: Pitt) bad nor Oleo pledged the House to do
e way that Tax immediately on the return of peace,
When, on the renewal of the war, a Tax upon
Income was againthOught necessary, it was no
longer final recourse to as a fund on which money
mighebe borrowed, but as the means tor meet ins;
the necessary supplies of the year, When 'granted
during the eiintiottance :of the war, '' 'and no
longer," no pledge was given that Ministers should I
tte prechuleti,.froin availing themsekes of such au
n •
impost on the return of peace ; they Were only
bound by:.th'ose words, again (0: submit' the
policy of , taking such a- course to the Cotisk
deration of the. House. In 1806, a hen it .103'
raised in its nuount.,. the Chancellor of the 111
Exchequer and the Ministers of -that it,ty, had
given 'no pledge' that they would never, on- any
subsetptent occasion, hut. its time of War, have re='
course to sect a mnsure. This they must have
Meant to leave open to the future consideration of
Parliament, on the presumptionkhat there it would
be tlispOsed of; accortruag to the circumstances

which might arise. Hleing iriellyfa,4erted,
to what had been done by his ptiNfecessors in, of-
Ace, he now came to ep;•4: of the coursc'Which ha
hiroselfhati pitrsuA.LliCthe'laSt ytt,ar Ire badconte
down to the Honse.on the 20th of Febroary;
offeredix general statement of the Ways and-Areans.
.4:which it had occurred to him to pi ride for the
serViee of the year ; and among these the Property
Tat was notincliided. He had done this, riot
.eauSer Ire thought to propose a renewal of that Tax
would be a breach of good faith, as he 41;0;11;4
_Oat
,11 question which, was ppen to consideration
at. uny" time, bat becatese )lie thought it objec
tionable in policy-at. that period. The cireurti-
'stance' s of the present tiny were. widely different.
from those of the' country• then. lie had at
the time to which he referred suggested %other
taxes., "srime of which had afterwards. been adopt-.
eel by Parliament, and some had been mortgaged
for a term of y'ears. Among the taxes (heti pro»
posed was a large addition to the-Assessed 'faxes,.
and .certainly he liadilleard it male a question
many, ‘vhefafr this woidd net be more burthen
sotrie and severe oo the public than the Prtiperty
Tax, "white lit the same .time its prod/lee would
not exceed half the amnion Of the stain raised by,
that impost. It WaA on these consideration
that he' had determitteil 011 submittiog the renewal
of the Property Tax.to• the House.. 'Before he
'sat dOwn he thotight 'it right to say, that the very
iniportant husinesi• about to come on, 'namely,
the Army Estimates, together with ihe motion of
the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Western),
would, he apprehended,'' he quite as much as 'the
'Manse could go' through in the present week',
with every regard to the convenience or the health.
of its Members, and he should therefore postpone
his motion on 11)6 subject of the Property Taxi
till Monday next,
Mr. VoNsoNily observed, that there were few
in the House, and probably more out of it, that
did not enneeNe the faith of Parliament pledged
on this subject. The words of the Act, of Pat
merit were most explicit, murldng out, that the
tax Was to' continue till the 250 of• April, after
signing a Definitive Treaty. of, Peace, and 110
longer'. The. House was now threatened as they
had been on a former evening,. with an• addition
to the assessed taxes, Which was to prove mord
burthensome than the property tag itself. But
he would say, • that l'arliatnent ought to adopt
neither, and it Wee too much 1.0 assume that
liament must' grunt an odiotts•tax to defray an oru,
pone that should not have been inclined.- 'He
trusted the Chancellor of the Exchequer would
I;•sten to the voice hf the conntry at large., Srs
cleurly 'and unequivocally expressed,.and Abandon.
the tax.
Mr. Funrulttif 6644-the' ClVlllCelliir of the.,
Exchequer had told them he had not proposed the
renevel, of this :tax list• year; because he hart
thought it ineonveuient,ar the time. Ile might
have gone further, and told them he hltd other
reasons for acting as he did, which grew nut or
ilk reluctance to .I.e-eon/mend the coot/nuance of
the Propertv Tax in time of peace. Nobody had
then said Pailimnent did not stand pledged to
abolish this impost on the return uf peace, and
certainly the uuderstanding was, when it was re»
'leveed on the breaking out of a new war, that it
WAS renewed for the purposea_ of that war, and
fpc.those alone,'ithd ,tilemietta even then a pledgee
Was given, which theltultliu bad it tight to ex-
pect would he redeemed.' It was now required
of .the Bight lion. Gentleman that he should give •
up the Property Tax. It' he did not do this, he
would be made to repent it till the last hour ofhis
life. •

The Petition was then read, and ordered to lie►
on the table.

Mr. Drcs.ErksoN presented. a Petition (rout the
County. of Somerset, against the Property Tit):.,
Irt calling the attention of -the 'louse tot he prayer
of the Petitions, the nonounable Gentlemairspoko
shortly in favour. then .vie vs, •He stated the
French A mbussadocto be in the habit Or granting ,
50 passports a day,- 4 of which were for natives of
this country, whamere about to emigrate in on-
sequence of the distrewschiuh preVoilea tit home.
Cwoold beeolne..klitusterirto look into this, and
to bring these propla hick 1.1 ythe'ofily worin which
they eoula be brot4titt; book---by restoring the
country .to formerstate..:' •

Sir SI. W. Itint.hir. wi,,hed the. Chancellor of
the FAtehetiuer to aet upon :the hints gi%vo
these Petitioners, end to endeavour
.to do with.
out' the Property Ts%,, uy iliminiribing tire lose.,
tion snit thecxpendittiro of the country.
1141-. Goat LANGTON Oppoted tile maintenance
of It Standing Ariny, and .oontetideti the poi* .
had a right to be wholly., entuncipaied frutn the
Property Tax,.

• Mr. lilertivErt reminded Minfsters of :the 'reek
ings of sat isfactiom With Which the Prince Rekent's
recommendatiottot econotity lied been received by
tali l! itglitnil, them to ,eutisider with.
what n- scrutinizing tye. the ,people 'would look_;
.for the fulfilment of thy:expectations thus excited.
secontlethhe Atlitress wiiicll, was: tumid t
in illlSlVt'r to that 'Speech, oft the kesent occasion,
be felt it to he .isectssary for him to speak out.
Friendly-as he was to the Noble Lord and to the
rest of. his- Royal Highness's Ministers, must
say, were he .in .tlte situation of Ince of them,
he -would represent respectfully, 'but fit tidy, to
the Prince ltegettt; ;that the pledge
must be. redemo—f.tilitt there must be no
More eXCe4Seti. on.,,the Civil List, We lait,3r
have no more tancifill elections to create these
excesses,. either 'in the. form of a .1);ovilion ur
a Pagoda. liven tit' `money pa.d to this etnintty
from fraltce.nittst not- be approptiated- to such put
poses—.it :belongs to the tfootirry, and tua&t be
submitted, will' the other attli MeIIITIS Of the
year, to the eOnstitutiunal anti exclubive cendroul
of Yariittmeut, You noist,sdit) .et 41,1 era ATie•ot

that economy which you have recommended. You
rethiettylltir theory to pract ice, tor tkil-Ricale
is wanting to bring your system to perfectinno—
Ile would farther say, that to pursue a
the reverse of that 'thus recommended; would he
to produce a state of things, which inexperience
could. not paliiHte on the one hand' nor poverty
support on the other. fie tViihed it to be under-
ouod, that when he voted-fur referring the Army
Estimates to a Committee, Itd.haci not given an
ipiniott on the Estimates themielves. lle bad
merely so vnted, because he thought- it was only
lit a Comtnittee that a reductioniwtheir amount
ertsibi be effected:
Mr. LAMIITON and, Mr. LYTTLETQN condemned
the Pronetty 'Vox, .EunLcalled on the Chancellor
vt the ENchequer to abandon it.
'l he Petition wactlien ordered to lie -on the
tolls,

Petitions against the Property Tax, from Oak.
.Jog.hain, from the Word of Lime-street, ;and the
iorougli of Tesrkeshitt'y, were presented, read,
. and ordered to lie on the table,
MILITARY CLUB.
Mr. C. FotaY presented a-Petition from Len-
-minstee against the Property Tax. He briefly
deserihed the Petition, which, in noticing the in-
tended Peace Pestablishment, complained of the
sistruce.of the Military Club, winch it repre-
seetedto be an object of jc..alotoiy and alarm.
C.-MotecK applauded the sentiments of the
Veiitioners with respect to the Military Clubhe
put it to
.the consitkration of the House, if
any other Club had ever been formed of a similar
»Ater?, coofined to any particular class of melt.
fle complained of .the favour shewu to the mili-
tary on most occasions, and in one instance, by
the creation of the Order of Knighthood, heal
which the people generally were excluded.. Ile
considered the character of the Military to have
been efteraterl from that of the rest of the com.
sunnily by the introduction of barracks.
Mr. dnOCit thought a more illiberal And unjust
attack had never been made on anybody of men
slicer that. which had been,made no the army by
the mention just made- of 'the Military Club. It
was rather severe that Officers who had been so
k)ug employed lighting our battles; should thus
be treated as traitors to that freedom, and ener
mitts to that Constitution which they had so gala
I -Indy fought to preserve.
- Mr. C. V. Wystrie protested against the con-
duct of the Tirol, Gentleman 'who- had just at
down, as being directly opposed to all freedom of
debate, when an objection was raised to the can-
Ya•sing of the institntions of the country in the
Mouse of Commons. lie. was ready, to uphold
and admire the personal characters of the 'Mein,
l'era of , the,Military Club, but be objected to the
formation of such a body of men, from whose
meeting civilians were excluded. lie was told,
tbat ,one of the rules of the Club was, that 1)0 po-
litical dismission should be introduced on any ac-
count whatever. This was very4cood, but how
did he know that some fine t iy,,when a sufficient
number were assembled together, this good resolu-
t inn would not he rescinded. To get itself tolerated,
it was easy-to pass a resolution like OW to %%thick
htmllre alluded; wit') the intention of subsequently
redciodiug it, for he did not supp'ose they would
come to Parliament to get adherence to it, made
obligatory. He objected to such an institution
as the Military Club, which would look up for the
countenance of the Crown, and the CrOWII alone.
in 1798, when it was in contemplation toittertlase
the pay of the Officers in the Army, a Message.
seas sent down to Parliament., in the first instance,
before any thing was determined upon.; but it)
18'14., when a similar incttaseof pay was. thought
necessary; it had been done by an Order in Conn,
eil,.which Parliament afterwards was invited to
sanction.
Lord PALSIEFISTOX rote to correct a mistake into
which 'the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last had
fallen, and %.%,bieh had surprised hint a good deal,
Considering his great knowledge in eollStitatioDal
precedents,. Thellon. Gentleman Said, that the
last increase of pay to General Officers had first
been ttiatle by, an Order in Council, snit that af-
terwards Parliament had been called upon to lc•
quiesee. Sorely the :Hon. Gentleman *est' know
that it is not possible for any regulation as to the
army, could he Made by an Order, in Council.
With respect to the navy, indeed, the case was
somewhat different-, and these were instances
of regulations, affecting that branch of the
service having been made, by Orders :from
the Privy Council. What. the ,honourable.
Gentle-Man probably meant "to states -was this,
that some regulation had been matte for Mertes--
log
,the puy of Officers before the consent of Par
liiimcut was obtained. Now fur himself he could
only state,- that during the time that .he had filled
the office which be now bad the biinottr•of occu,
vying, no such thing had taken place ; and he
should have thought thathe was transgressimgbis
duty if he had made any communication to' the
army of an increase of pay until the measure was.
eittbmittedto Parliament, and its consent obtained.
This had becn done in 1814, when the. last increase
r;f pay:44d. been Wade to, Gen
that occasion be had jtiniself brought ;down' the
estimates, and laid them on- tbeaeblei prepareteey
to opening the proposed measure to the !loamMr.
Mr. WY!4NW said, be Might have been ntiltalten
in alluding to the case of the increase of pay to Os,.
litral Officers. But there was one instance in-which,
lie was certain that
,he was perfectly correct;`
, namely. the increasenf pay.to serjeanti..fie was
perfectly certain that an Order of Council-had-been
vAned;--during the recess of; Parliament, directing
the increase of their pay,'
Lm'd Pat.stsarrON----As to theincreaseof ser-
jeants' pay, he did belieeethe lion.fientlernin.was
right'; there had been some slight interference by
an Order in Conned, but it was in a very trilling
matter; and not by any Means considered as aim.,
lately decided midi confirmed byrarliamenti-
Colonel Waorßeing,une of-the unfortunate
:Members of thatlfilitary Clitb,r which bad- been
unaccountably made the subject -.of so much dis-
cussion, wished to set theWon:;Qentlentan (Mr.
Dickenson)' right, by Stating the mature of an
stitution so muck -111iStepte*Itedor;:iit was :.Cer
tsinly trite-that there was-alitreat tuitither of mili-.
tary men in the Club, but then there ma: also a
great proportion of Gentlemett in the gat See-`
vice in the Club‘ as originally :formed,. and "in
cousequcuo of trjun9elyst. rfkicb Izs4 4attly-ligem

efrec.at^d with :mother Club, the number Of naval
,meti and been so touch increased as to bear au
exact proportion to those who belonged to the
Army. But in addition to the junction of these
two great
,beanches of the Service (a junction
which .he would have thought calenlated to era-
dicate any disposition to view the Institution with
jealousy), there was :another eliss. of Officers,,of
Whom the Club ‘vaseomposed, towards whom of
all others it would be' aimot impossible to enter-
:ant any jealous feeling—he meant Ofileers who
had been in the service of th.e lase India Coin-
pally---who had returned from India with eon-
sitkrable fortnnes, autl Who, having invested
their money 'in this comitry, must be con-
sidered as -the most .interest.ed in the main-
tenance of those civil .otahlishitients by which
their property was secured. But, besides these,
the Chib included others Whose 'habits, disposi-
rimy+, and principles were such, that they must
•he equally incapable of, exciting jealousy. For
instance, there,were many 'Militia 4.)tlicers no less
time 36 Colonels of Militia Ilegiments—great of-
fruiters perhaps by being assueinied with such a
Club, but there they were. (A laugh,. and Hear,
hear !)—There were Wisp many Lords Lientemons
of Comities. The lionoerable Gentleman said,
that 'this was the only Ciub from will all per-
sons who were not of the sante pi alession were
excluded. „But this vas finite a mistake ; there
bad been 'no kss than tour naval clubs. There
were also many other professional clubs ; for inb
stance, of Lawyers. And there were, too, clubs
of another kiud, very exclusive in their nature,.
Nay, the lion. Member who presented the Pe-
tition, was a member of a chtb in which there
were not many Gentlemen.—(A
trusted the House and the. Hon. Member woold
excuse the slip which be had made ; what he
meant was, that the club to which he had alltide
was composed solely of persons in the habit of
voting in opposition to the measures of Govern•
mole.-..((;sits of" name it !" train 'the Opposi-
tiort.)---die did tiot'iVish to n:iine it very particu-
larly, but perhaps lie Would be 1;i:del-stood When
`he mentioned.that its members %vete in the habit
olmeeting.at Brookes's.—(llear, hear !) great
deal too much had been said, about the Military
Club. It was certainly deSirable thatethe two
great branches of the service, tin:Artily-and Navy,
should be completely combined+ and should have
opportunities of social intercoase. A near relit-
dim Of the lion. Creutleimovopposite (Mr. Wyuite),
was One of the Members of_ the Club, "and, was a
Than of whom he might safely say,
.that wotild
Ile the last to joist in any associatioo.front which
there cools) be any danger to the .Coustitution.—
He repeated, that by the very principles of the
iostitution every thing political was excluded, and
its,tneetings were merely for the sake of convi-e
vialitY,
•
11Ir. Ross observed, that after all that had liicen
said, the House would perhaps be surprised to hear
that he was a treither of this formidable Mili-
tary Cluh—(A laugh, mot hear, hear !) though
it was very well known that he was neither a na7,
val nor a military man ; but he had recaived an
invitation becoine a member of it front at;
Lord of so high a character, as to be at once a
sanction for his aceeptance of it. It was of course
accouot of the official situation which lie held
that lie }bid received thik; invltation, by which he
felt hirresrle iaigi,ly boiroured. So fats was
froth seeing,any*thing objectiotiablein'the lnsti-
tutiOn„ that he thought it highly commendable.—
Thera was nu') novelty in its nature; for Naval
Clubs on a similar Alrineiple had long been esta-
blished. Aml as to saying thatthere was reason
to appreheittl tluitsoine inroad rtgainst the Consti-
I et ion was intendea by Stich ale eslabllsl,njent, eon-
siSting of nayal'and military men; if any mischief
of this kind were it tentled by a combine tiOn of that
class of society, the object might have been equally
elteeted by their calliug a meeting, for the express
pnrpOse, without prOetedink tt, establish a Club,
(ire at inconvenience to lit. pnblic guiViCe had beeu
heard to reitilt from Commanding Officers on
foreign s;ations not being, personally,acquitint
; 11114 to obviate this, nothing coidd he better
calefilated titan this Club. He could not gee
011 irlsait pOsitive grmind any danger to the COn-
stitinion_wai to be apprehended from the convivial •
meetings of persons. comiected with the Artnyend
Navy. Times had been iu which the Constitn-
tiOn had been put in greater danger by clubs of
laWyerS, than it could be .by this Institation.---
(Hear, hearl)—lie had heard with shame and
eonaero the att.tch which had been wade upon
this, Club. For his owo part lic,thonght it was
estalli4hed on an execlieu:a principle—he felt him,
self hottoured by being admitted a member of
lie felt warmly interested in ils'anrew—and hoped
it would long coptinuie flourish.-r-,Wear, hear
Loul i‘ituro:st, hoteud of finding that: the ob.
jections to this glob .Were removed by what had
been said, found them increased. ,
'the Hon, Captain. W.at,neottavz said, there, was
no analogy seliatuier between. the ,Naval Clubs
which hal been, so: long instituted, and Ibis Ali-
tart' Chub, The former generally 'consisted Of.
half-payptiicers, writer could scarcely beconsider-
ed as wider the inguetice of the Crown.
General Ascot c: Ni thought that though no,-
thiog s.itisfaetory' had yct beers Said itl vindication
of the Military Club it would bar initis,power to
do away every
„weal v rhble impression:that (Mkt-.
eti 'Hipluit ( ligiger.) The establislaticut
„.f a military Club veas no innovation. " o far
back as the war he 4lug
,William's time aclub-of
this 16141 had-beets established, nntter the natoeof.
The " Snonatter a ‘4German
Club - had been formed. by the Officers wbobad,
served in the, campaigns in that .country; and df-
tatwards an " American Club; inahort,. he iio,rlit
• I ,
safely say twit there Clubs
were fifteen or sixteen
of the same 'description-!,-that was to say, otitn,:
postalof mint-44 mt,e, vVho ,assembled to enjoy-
each other's Society, and to talk over' military lick;
ventures aud.exploits. 4tnong the rest,.moro re-
cently, there had been the " Holland Chiba";
and the " Irish Staff Club." Of all these that
remained in existence, a jtillClfrall had:„ been ef,
faceted, and an arrangement- had been !lade
to have the Alemhers dine ,togetfier once a
month. lint the ehief intentkon of the Esta•!.
I
bliahment was, that it should be made ua,eful.
to nail-pay 04cets, who might :have a dinner,-
or what was. -commonly called an ordinar Sc A r
cheap rate, anti at the same thug $ place file OSirc-

' where they could meet their old friends.—
This was changed into, what. had been called a
" General Service Club,"-aud included Officers of
the Navy, Militia Oflieges, and in short, Gentle-
MeneonneCted with the Army or ‘Navy.. There'
was no reason to, suppose that military men Were
more tinder the influence of the Crown 0)0)4 atiy
other. class of men. FOr his flier, part, he denied
that there could be any man who gave more on-
biki-sedattention to the affairs of his constituents
1)a» himself, or who,aeted more independently.
It Was a subject on which he would challenge any
man—(;l laugh). lie .meant he wouldeballenge
atw loan 'to state that this was not The fact. There
%viis'nothing in this Club at' all conitecteilwithpo=
lines; and consequently not The shadow of foun-
datiim for what had been said of its endankti
the Constitution.
ntiouourtm rose amid cries for the ques-
tion. This Club was not to be considered alone
and as u 06111nel:red with the other symptoths of
the times. Lie saw in it Part of a gradual pro=
gressive attempt to alter the habits of the comp-.
try; and indeed (as had been absolutely stated_on
the otherside of the House), to make us More-of
a military nation. Unwilling us he'was to prolong
this conversation (as there would be other oppOr-
t unities for going into time -subject) he could not sit
down Oh hoot noticing, that influence had actually
been used' to induce different persons to become
memlietiof thisChib.This single tart was quite suf-
ficient to show a very lively interest was taken In its
conestrus,-in some' quarter which did not need
to be more particularly.natned. And further, he
understood that to the very quarter alluded to' (in
Which no doubt a strong interest 'VHS taken in the
application which he had Mebtioned, rind. from
whieb, no doubt, suggestions or directions were
received a to the individiials to whom the appli-
cations should he addressed)-i-to 0)3- very quar-
tet, a regular retlll.ll was made of those who gave
it) their moues in acceptance of the invitation, us
well as of those who refused. lie ,eonetadel by
enlogizing the Noble Lord at the head Of the
Club (bordllynedoch),- whom he Lvould be proud
to call hisfriettd, and from whot», last arch men; -]
any thing unconstitutional was to he apprehended:
Colontl Wool.) begged to-he,allowed to say a
feW words beyond mere explanation. There wit's—
on of tile Club, he wished -distinctly to
state—not one tittle of foundation7,fdr 'that hues
been said the Hon. and Learned Gentlemiu
who bath just sat-down, about officers being
courted to become' Alenthers,.and 'returns made
to'a certain 'high' personage; When any person
who was a candiOate for admission, was rejected,
or, as it was called bluck•balled, the person so ex-
cluded', otenurse heard of his rejection. .130
ex-
rept'this, there was not the slightest foundation
for- what .the Hon. and Learned Gentleman bad
asserted.

Mr. 13ROUG.HAll firmly believed that the fan
'vas' implicitly as he had stated it : he had heard it
on such authority; that even after what the Ilan.
Colonel had said, he could not dqubt that it was
the ham

General OAStOTONft said, that neither returns
nor communications of any: kind were ritticle to.
tity'quarter as to the election of •the.lllcmhers of
the Club, excepting the circulars sent-to tie dif-
ferent 'Members of the old Clubs which .bad becti
incOrporateti. with that in question..
Alr. WiIfiTIRRIK thought Out it was inicurnbeni
on .the [louse to look w;th jealousy:upon such an
institution/which bad the Duke of York, its Coin-
launder in Chief, at its head--(Cries of, No, 710 !)
which was formed during profound peace, and
into which Members -of the Administration were
•
itdinittett.

Mr. Goocit wished it to lie understood that be
did not wish to cast any impotatiori against those
honourable Membc:s on 'the other aide of the
BMOC, for. the course they hail -taken on this oc-
casion. 'But he meant. to say; that in his opinion
the Members o!, the Club were•quite as vrtli able
to judge of constitutional principtes,•and perhaps
•more likely to -support- them truly, than some of-;
:those by whom- they were attacked.
Mr. It. WARD desired the • Uouse to observe,
that a Member of the Club (Colonel Wood)'had
ixpressly contradicted the assertio►t of nu hon.
and Learned Gentleman opposite, respecting a
return being made to any quarter.as to,the eke.
Lion or rejection of 'eandittateslor admission
the Claim, The Honourable and Learned Gen-
-1 tertian bud thought-. proper to repeat his as-
serticrt7,•-anti his honourable • Friend 'was, by
the, cities; of debate, precluded 'trout again
Ohl) to contradict it. •
• After a few wards of. •niutual 'explanation • }lo.'
t wren Mr. Goners and Mr. FOLVE the chnversa
lien ended. •The. Petition W. 85 then ordered- to lie
on the table.

d to Government to info= the utmost econom:
from the highest to the lowest in the kingdom—
(Loud cries of Hear, hear !)--qind he had no
doubt that Ministers would act on this system.—
(Hear, hear !)
Mr. WysNE expressed his entire con currence
all that had been said by the Notle Lord, bat
feared Ministers would not act on at. economical
system.

Mr. PONSONBY wished the House to .hserre
what were the Noble Lord's objections to ebe
income Tax. The Noble Lord objected to h,
first, as it affected tenants ; secondly.. Ai"
fected landlords ; and 3dly, as it Oared PI,
cornmerciaLinterest. Now, he would ask,
class of society would remain to pay the
And if loch was the situation of the county;l
this tax here imposed by Ministers, vilo; G"'
the nation think of such a set of men..
Altera few words from Lord Mitrotir, the_
titian was brought up, read, and ordered to ire on
the table,

CIVIL LIST.
In answer toe question froM Mr. BEWSED
ME CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated'
that the delay which had taken place in- the pre'
duction of the Papers relating to the Civil List'
beyond the time prescribed by the Act, was owing
to the necessity of examining an the 'Wools
oufpretnnitelleusilrlntegfiaxiledihbeywtohrekAient
tobfePbstorikaimngetneryreo;:
col smiler the direction of the Board.of ilq""'"
The CHANCEALLit
oHYR
oEfSTtItiMeATER:c.
own •
moved the
sOrderur
()
soef, the
p llrDs
naayn
tt tor. the C
his no:::::J,titnctgot:
of Supply,
move that the Cotnmittee should .be'instrunted to
make provision for the support of the
Ark
my in France. He did not think it t°
trouble the House with an
m y If fanerk
arguments its tAv4)°,,
rOf a measure so, evidently necessary.
shoold snake default in tise paytnent of the eon:
tributions, unless the Committee made the r'"",-,
sionfnr Which 'he moved) , there ti,oilicf b e no
firlt
Means of issuing a firthing for .the support ot,
that Army. -
Tlme CHANCELLOR of the Exciseauri did net,
object to the Motion; but as his Noble Fritnti in"
,
tended to move in the Committee a itesolatiedtct
the same effect, be thought it would be unneto,
nary press the motion.
The Sr Rattail observed, that by ngreeing,tesg•
motion-of the Hon.. Gentleman (Mr. Wynne) 118
House would give a mandatory iustructiors to tI/4
Committee.
Mr.W.VNNEsaid,.that this was what IteWlihed-.
Time CHANCELLOR of the Excitenots4 "1.1
meant to say. that the vote on the subject %roil'
be equally good with or without the motion ; blitt
if the lion. Member thought proper to pros it'
he could not disagree to it.
WETHEEALL supported the Motion, .d.
took the opportunity of expressing his disupprot
hation alike amount of the estimates.
The motion was then agreed to.
On thr question that the Speaker 'should lets:
the Chair,
• Mr. PuoTtrenssa slid not rise to oppose die tu'r
tion, hot found himself called upon to deliver 1:':
sentiments an so important a subject. 111 ti'6"gd-
the establishment firoposaa e
...NOpeace of permanency or security coll.
be expected until. the civil system res„med its as!!
cenclaricy'dver the military; and in that ricwtil.
.thought it was intended to keep up too. gr'eni " •
military force. He was constrained to admit,
from the able statement of the Secretary for Re's
land,' that .the state of that country required for,
the present the maintenance of a large force. A*:
to the -.retrenchments that could be made in ,tno
'establishment,
the :Noble Lord had stated, thst
the reduction of 20,000. men would only prodec°
a savins, of 600,000/. lie did not think the 33"
jog could be so inconaiderable, He should hi'
;glad to see Ministers take leave of their establish:
=meat, which. they Must:keel') doWn if they wishea
to stay in their places,
Alrilloettisowthought, that after the abundant
-discussions which had already taken place, it I.''
been agreed that the House would go into a Coal's,
mittee. That method would be mare convenieq:'.
and what the two last Hon. Gentlemen had sad.
might-as ,well have been spoken in the Committee''
Lord /Nitta e slid not wish to create dell, b"t:'
he owed it to his conscience to state, that onlet's
some more tirteitOt person should, uddertake the
task, he should feel it his dirty to oppose. sti.
bringing up. the Report of the Committee, tr:l
Estimates. were not materially altered. c"`"`
not see that in a question of exorbitant taxaiioa.
on the one hand, and unnecessarily large exPen"
diture on the other, it %yds possible to 'sel)Blll,..te
them. from each other. The House Inuit toosttivs
the Income Tax as the price which the country
was called upon to pay, and lie 'aid not think that
is Standing Army ought to he the object for
the people. of England should be called upon £o' J 4
pay such a price. He trusted that the Hot"
would look into every item, Of, those Estimates,
and 'not sanction that gewgaw' extravaga—L,L.-7
which tricked out the British army so as to lita'rfr,
it appear like an army of millineis, and madelg;
British Prince be surrounded by a gang of C3c!:
man Hussars, nutter than trust to the respect Ostt
,
affection of the people.
The motion was then agreed to, and the 81""4"'
left the Chair,.and the House resolved itself into a,
Committee.
::Lord PaotensToN stated, that after the amplP
discussiqn which the-Army Eitimates had already
undergone, he should not enter it second time into
their details. it woutd be unnecessarily rrastinC
the time of the House. But he should he pre*
pared to follow any ',lion. Gentleman on that sub"
,acct, sand to give every kind-sot •explana(lon
might be required. He wished,. however, to
press HpoH, the Committee, that they
were 110 t:
consider the. establishment proposes! Its a
peaC.
establishment, but sts en intermediate arrog7
.meat between a state of wet on the one i""(d
and a state peace on the other. }le tow.
also, that although Government had not h;ulti01:
since the signature of the Treaty, to eartY i nto.
effect all the retrenchments which they inten"le".
:in this branch of the public.service, yet it svonld b
fmtud,. by Cul the - Gentlemen who would
badalicediheau sitectedi although ktiOrf
ithastintates With those for the lastye*r, t hi; tr)
still Li;