The Sun.
London, England, 1827-04-03 00:00:00

Grant) saw no Each dangers, but he, wad very willing:to
join with the Hon. Baronet in the appeal "lie had
that 'Hon. Gentlemen would think for themselves, and look
at the question upon its real Merits, balancing its advan-
tages and_disadvantages, without reference to party or per-
venal considerations. He was confident that the iciod.feel-
ing and- g:iod sense of the House would ansWer the appeal
satisfactorily., in approaching a change of the law- like
theReeea..,'........, it.-was4onsolatory to teem; thee no old English
ptejudiene and assoniationt eoalti hie brought lei rally round
it, for the Bill .now,to be altered Was only patted in 1815.
The Hen.. Baronet, had askeda very stature' questionej-
why was ie requisite to make any change at ,aII ? Hit (Mr.
C. Grant's) answer was very abort and plain-e-lhat the
existing law is erfoneous in principle, arta It'as failed in pracL
tice. `That were the objects to he attained by the Act of
1815 ? Front the debates at the time, and general impress
sion, he should say, they were mainly three-1. Unifore
mity of, price; 2. Protection to agriculture; 3. Inde-
pendence of foreign supply. Ide would ask whether as
of these purpoees had beet:. hecornplished , (Hear !) ? Thli
Papers Von. the ,table ehewed howethr Uniformity of, price
had been secured. In 1817 the average price of wheat in
June was 112 n. ; and in ,September, 745. In 1818, in
April, it e.g..: els. ; and - in August '7Bs. ; and, in 1312,
the v'eriation had been between 78s. and 644. In 1822
anther law had .been passed, which, in some respects,
etas an improvement upon that of 1813, and what had
been the fluctuation of price previous to, and just after
that improvement? On the 29th September, 1821, it
was 70s. 7d., and on the 20th December, 465. 2d.-
In January, 1822, it was 505., and in October of the
same year, ns. In one month of 1823, it had been 395.
11d., and in another 625. ;• and the variation in 1824,
was between 675. 7d. and 530. 7d. The difference in the
price of oenk and barley had been about in the same prO-
portiou. So much liir the supposed uniformity of price.
Next, as to the protection afforded to the farmers. The
skewing oftlie agricultural interest themselves was sufff-
dent evidence that the Act of 1815 produced among them
nothing but ruin and disaster : the testimony brought be-
fore the Committee of 1821, by Mr. Webb Hall and Me.
Wakefield, established this point; and, since 1822 all
that had been said at meetings and written in periodicals on
that side of the question was grounded upon the aSiling-
tion that the farmers had been much depressed. What
had been the effect of the :nets of 1813 and 182.:' on
foreign supply, as it had been at all times urged that it is
a paramount object in thaw measures to render the kin -
dom independent of other nations as far as regarded the
growth of grein? During . the whole of the last twenty
years, wit's one exception, there had never been so lareee
an imp'irtation of foreign grain, as in the years 1817 and
1819.,—it amounted to 2,32.5,000 qrs., or only 100,000
qrs. less than in the great scarcity of the years 1801 anti
1802. In 1817, the quantity of barley imported wile
not less than 700,000 quarters, and of oats 900,000 qr 4.
—both larger iraportations_than hal ever before occurred.
:Row did the Atte:4;B22 affect importations? Had, the
country avoided the necessity of . the introduction of grain
from abroad? Far from being independent, 'the Legisla-
ture had been compelled to sanction importations to a large
amount. The documents before the House proved, that
in the three years previous to the 20th November, IS26e,
643,000 quarters of barley had been brought in, and abolit
a million quarters of oats. The quantity of wheat brought
into home consumption in the same period was 807,000
quarters. It was stated in some circles, that at a meeting
not far from the House of Commons, it was admitted that
the law of 1822 had failed- in its objects ; and in reply to
the question then if it have failed, why do you suppoit
that law ? It was answered, that many circumstances had
hitherto interfered with its operation ; but thit
it was now on the point of being effectual and Of
rendering - the• price stable, of protecting the forme},
and of making the country independent of foreign
supply. It appeared, however, that the Act of 18,12 was
passed for the purpose of meeting certain given circuril-
stances, and of struggling against certain contingencies, vie.
falling prices and the change in the currency—and that
when they occurred, the law had proved totally ineffectual.
It proceeded ,rpon an erroneous principle, that Parliament
was hound to keep the prices of corn in this country abose
the prices abroad,-,and to accomplish that design, resort
had been had -to a very high prohibitory price. The as-
sernptieet*angratnitous and unsound as well as unjust,
that. in at greit commercial country like England it was
p,o,,,ibie to eat at!- Zone main branch of intercourse with
other nations; without injuring both its internal and ei-
ternal trade. - Much uncertainty of price and injury to tile
agrieultitral as well as other interests of the country, might
wise either Aeon': art excess or a deficiency of supply, under
*he existing state of the law. If there was a deficiency of
hot-Resupply, the prices woukl. advance rapidly towards the
poisstwic,msramicebassmatisswessraa, carcla
''Peculatiess-itticakeign-.Coent would take place, and a 'ante
stock of iewould be accumulated; and the result would be
a great and sudden revulsion in the prices, and the farmers
would, in many instances, be ruined. In the case of an
excessive supply,. the price, unless exportation should be en-
couraged, might he ruinously low. But it was clear that
this country could not be altogetheindependent of the supply
of foreign corn ; and if so, in what circumstances was tile
country* placed under the existing law? The foreign farmer
would make no provision for the supply of this country, and
therefore when a supply was required; we were at the
mercy of the foreign market., and the supply must be pro-
cured on the worst terms. Another view of the subject
related to its effect on the exchanges between this and fu-
reign countries. In the case of an unqualified prohibition,
until the price rose to that which the existing law ate. '
pointed, then when corn did reach that price, a greatquab-
tity would be suddenly imported upon,. speculation, will
the knowledge on the part ofe the importers, that as ttie ~
ports had suddenly opened, so they might be suddenly slnit.
These sudden and violent operations must havea perniciohs
effect on the exchanges, whereas a regular trade in corn
would not have any great effect upon them-more than the
trade in any other article of commerce. Another point
was, that such an unqualified prohibition as he had stated
must materially affect our own currency. The dealings :in
corn in this country were immense, and a monopoly price
could not have a pernicious effect on our currency and cir-
culating medium, and produce those sudden expansions and
reductions, from which so ninny evils had resulted. lilt?
might also notice the effect of a prohibition on the manji-
factures of the country. Such a prohibition must create a
tendency in manufacturing capital to go abroad. It albs
generally admitted, that the price of corn regulated the price
of all other commodities, and thesacrifice which Must be
made in consequence of .a monopoly price of that article,
would fall not only on the profits of the manufacturing- capi-
talist, but on the wage' of the labourer. The condition of
the labourer might be and would be depressecf. He might be
made to work for
a greater number of hours than for-
merly, in order to procure sufficient wages to maintain
himself and his family. His comforts might be diminishd
until at last he could hardly,tvith the utmost exertion, earn
what would be necessary for a bare subsistence on coarsest
fare, and to that state lie was apprehensive this country vies
fast approaching.—(Hear, hear.)—A change would be
effected in the habits and comforts of the labourer, and the
result would be, that manufacturing capital would seek
another country. The prohibitory price of corn was, in
reality, a premium upon foreign manufactures.—(lleac,)
.--He had before said, and he now repeated, that the ex-
isting law had failed in practice, because it was wrong in
principle- The change now to be effected, consisted in
the substitution of a scale of duties for the prohibitory
price. He atetkoof a scale of duties as contrasted with the
prohibition, or a'fited duty, and -considered . it re far pre-
ferable to either.. ',helves not prohibitory, but softened
the gradations in the change of prices. With respect to
a fixed duty, it ought :to be observed, that although the
scale, of dutieseettetembiy
varying affected the operations
of the corn merchants, the interests of the agriculturists,
and great body of consumers, (night to be chiefly consult-
ed. Then, as to the medium price to be fixed, it mist
be in some degree arbitrary ;
but 601. appeared to be a fair
medium between the parties who were most deeply con-
cerned in the question. The Hon. Baronet (Lethbride)
had said, that corn could not be grows at home under
these circumstances ; and he had entered into some cal-
culations, as evidence that the assertion was well-founded.
But, in reality, these ealeulations were extremely-uncer-
tain, as much of - them must depenfd on nonjectural esnie
mate ; as in the case, for instance, of turnips, which were
usually consumed on the ground- The best way, thee,
fine, to arrive at a sound conclusion was,
to look at the
even
• 404; and it Was material to bear in wind, that under
the existing law, the price of wheat had of late been
en -cultuial
i
tinder 575. per quarter. He allowed that the A
other
Interest was in a very depressed state, like all
interesta of the community, but he at the same time main-
tained, that the Agricultural Interests had of late very much.
'mPtened; the best proof of which was, the increased atnd
luem'aing capital, employed in agriculture, such as in drain-
ings end other imprpvements. After all that had been said
bout the depresed state of the agriculturists, he had not
herd "!aue-l' of late about &tellers abandoning their farms,
tee eenrg t° brinentip their sons to the same occupation.
to , - . .hCarit from farmers, that if agriculture were
for thii use /'.l.- 4114; 4ilaPideted state in which it had been
ahatelesennXv, years, they would advise their sons to
that if tiv 4NA* altogether, To this he had replied,
a rifinouse ' -., . -9. f cultivation. had been so long in such
extraordicary,LAZ"t44 ha 4 represented it to be, it was
it long age. --- 'Wiz. ct advieed their sons to quit
against the notion oft ' - ,"141.1 strongly militated
Az4r.e
treat d ' - '
epressum of agriculture,

was the great quantity of foreign manures, which had
of late been imported into this country. Re alluded par-
ticularly to bone manure. In the year ending the sth
of January, 16245 the 'value of . bones imported for
manure was 145900/. ; irr the year ending the sth of
January, 1825, it was 44,000/. ; in the year ending the sth
of January, 1626, it was 56,0001. ; and in the year ending
the sth of January, 1827, it teas 95,0001. It was impossible,
under these circumstances, that agriculture could be in the
_ ruinous state in which it had been sometimes represented
to be. Then, as to the rags, the quantity imported in the
year ending the sth of January, 1824, was 350 tons; in
the year ending the sth of January, 1825, it was 341
tons; in the year ending the sth of January, 1826, it was
615 tons; and in the year ending the sth of January,
1827; it was 428 tons. Then with respect to linseed,
rape-seed, and cakes, the quantities imported during the
corresponding period above-mentioned, were, for the first
period, 170,000 tons; for the second, 495,000 tons; for
the third, 686,000 tons ; and for the fourth, 527,000
tons and upwards. This proved clearly that a great deal
of capital was employed in the progressive improvement of
the soil, and its more effective cultivation for the produc-
tion of corn. It was true that the duties on the importa-
tion of some of these articles had been reduced, but not
on the importation of all of them. The Hon. Baronet
had appealed to the consequences of a sudden exportation
of manufactures. Now, a sudden exportation of nianufae-
tures might have some injurious effect on the agricultural
interests, but a regular commerce .would not. The in-
creased exportation of manufactures would, on the con-
trary, add a new stimulus to agricultural industry, and the
number of consumers at home would be increased in con-
sequence of such importation. Then with respect to the
importation of corn, this country had for some time been
importing corn from Ireland, and yet the agriculture of
this country had not the less flourished. Manufactures had
been exported to Ireland for the corn imported ; and thus,
a new stimulus was given to the manufactures of England,
while the consumers of its agricultural produce were pro-
portionately increased. The Hon. Baronet had also con-
tended, that the importation of foreign corn would most
materially and perniciously interfere with our home corn
market. But, if the facts were examined, it would be
found that the interference would not be at all so material
as the agrieulturists appeared to apprehend ; for, dur-
ing a tract of years, the importations of barley and oats
had been but trifling, and the importation of wheat
had not exceeded 6 or 700,000 quarters in any one year.
He would show, by reference to the official documents,
what had been the total and average qUantity of wheat im-
ported during the last seven years. The quantity import-
ed in 1820, time first year of that term, was 1,300,000 quar-
ters. The whole quantity during the seven years was
4,800,000 qrs., making an annual average of only 660,000
quarters. This, it was to be observed, too, was the result
under circumstances of peculiar advantage to the importer.
The Right Hon. Gentleman then referred to the Returns
of the quantity of foreign corn imported from the principal
countries abroad from whence a supply of that commodity
could be obtained during the last 20 years, ending with
the year ISI9. From this statement it appeared, that the
total quantity imported from Prussia during that period
was 4,270,000 qrs., making a yearly average of 210,000
qrs. From Germany the total quantity was 1,508,000
qrs., the yerly average of course was 75,000 qrs. From
Poland the total quantity was 839,000 quarters, the yearly
average 41,950 quarters. The Right Hon. Gentleman
also stated the amount of corn imported from the United
States and from some other countries ; but in so low and
hurried a manner that the numbers could not be heard in

the Gallery. The conclusion he drew from these facts
was, that there existed no great ground of terror with re-
gard to the possible amount of foreign corn that could be
imported into this country. It was his absolute convic-
tion that the agriculturists were entirely mistaken as to
this part of the subject. The leading fallacy that pre-
vailed through all their arguments was, that things would
remain exactly as they now were, and that importa-
tion would take place at the same prices as were now
obtained, without taking into consideration the ex-
pences of carriage, and the stagnant state of the fo-
reign market. But the effect of throwing open the British
Market would be, immediately to raise the prices in all
the foreign markets. Mr. Jacob, in his Report, had given
an instance of the effect produced on the markets abroad by
the opening of the British ports. From 1816 to 1820,
there was at Dantzic a great demand for this country ; and
the:result was, that the average price of wheat during those
years, was 545. bd. per quarter. During the next five
years, when this demand had ceased, the average was only
265. 2d. per quarter. This was the consequence of closing
the British market. The same effect had taken place in
Canada, where, from precisely the same cause, the price of
evteseaaise4-esseae on she bushel one shilling in _five. The
atteinpti, on the part of those who were friendly to the
existing system of Corn Laws, to chew that grain could be
imported in vast quantities at very low prices, Lad com-
pletely failed. With respect to that frightful part of the
world, the Black Sea, out of which so many dead phan-
toms had been raised to terrify the landed interest—(a
laugh), what was the true state of the case? The mer-
chants in the Odessa trade had ahewn, in their evidence,
that it was not possible to bring corn to this country from
that port at a less price than 60s. a quarter. What were
the facts with regard to Dantzic? The latest price of the
best wheat at that port was 295., and according to the esti-
mate of the most expert ealculators, it could not he brought
to this country at a lower rate than 445. a quarter, inde-
pendently of the duty. These facts were incontrovertible,
and, in his opinion, were decisive of the question. By the
latest accounts from New York, it appeared that, including
all the expenses of bringing wheat •to this country, it would
Cost 54e. a quarter, independently of the duty. If ever
there was a delusion, surely then it was, that Foreign Corn
could he sent in such quantities from abroad as to inter-
fere materially with its price in the British market. All
the testimony given before the Committees of both Houses
of Parliament confirmed these statements, and those of
Mr. Jacob also; of whom, having mentioned him, he would
say, that though he did not hold himself answerable for
every allegation in his Report, it was but an act of justice
to that Gentleman to remark, that that Report had now
been a long time before the world, and had not been im-
peached in any material statement. Mr. Jacob might have
been inaccurate in some points, but in the main he had been
correct. The Right Hon. Gentleman, after some further
remarks, said, that for these reasons, he hoped the House
would oppose the Amendment.—(Hear, hear.)—He con-
jured the Landed Gentlemen not to deceive 'themselves by
thinking that they had not arrived at an important crisis.
One of the greatest evils of the existinglaw was, that it was
calculated to excite deep and dangerous animosities between
the first interests of the country.. He had hoped that the
agriculturists would have embraced the proposition' offered
to them with wisdom and delight, and would willingly
have acceded to the abolition of a law which had failed in
every other purpose but that of exciting animosity and pro-
ducing irritation between them and the rest of their fellow-
subjects.—( Hear, hear, hear. )---The late Resolutions of that
House, and this Bill, which was founded upon them, af-
forded an opportunity to the Landed Interest to remove
every trace of that animosity and of that irritation. —(Cheers. )
He believed that in general, whatever might be thought of
it by extreme parties, the public were satisfied with this
Bill. The proof of that fact was, that those who were
opposed to it had not been able to show popular feel-
ing, either on one side or on the other ; and he had no
doubt that when it was passed, it would soon lull to rest
those afflicting and pernicious complaints which had too
long been murmured against the Landed Interest (Cheers).
He appealed to them, therefore, for their own sakes, not
to lose this opportunity ; for, could they conceive, that if
it were postponed until circumstances of great pressure,
when actual scarcity had excited panic, any measure on
this subject would not be viewed in a very different light?
There would then be no longer an option, whether 60s.
should be assumed as a protecting price. When the coun-
try was driven to this extremity, Parliament would be
obliged to look to the wants of a starving population ; be-
cause humanity, if not justice, would demand it.—(Cheere)
The rejection of this Bill he should regard as one of the
most fatal events to the prosperity of the country. When
he looked at the growing intelligence, and enlightened
mind of the people—the power of the public Press—and
the real justice of the question—he thought the Landed
Interest were much mistaken, if they expected it would
not be again presented to them, under circumstances of so
different a character, as would probably leave that House
' no power of arguing it.—(Cheers.)---On these grounds
in stating which he had ventured to trespass so long on the
attention of the House—he would support the second read-
ing of the BilL—(Loud and long repeated cheers.)
Mr. WESTERN complained that Government had ha-
bitually directed the attention of the public to the corn law
of 1815, as the comae of the distresses of the country, when
they were really attributable to other circumstances. He
averred, that however manufactures might be supposed to
have suffered, the distresses of
agriculture were in
general
equal, had been greater, and lure, were little below them.
But for the behaviour of Govertuatealt, the people by this
time would have become satisfied With the working of the
law of 1815. The practice of charging
all the difficulties
of
the country to that measure was unfair. He did not
mean to go largely into the subject of the currenoT but lie
must be allowed to say that the Bill of .1819 wtch
re-
stored the old standard, had produced all the fluctuations
which had occurred since. It had been avowed by the Mi_
meter in 1822, that the measure he was proposing had for
its objeei the enlargement of the quantity of the circulating

medium, and it was Well known that it increased in quan-
tity during the years
.1824, 1825, 1826. In fairness,
then, the Right Honourable Gentleman ought to have
shown that the fluctuation of prices in grain in other coun-
tries under a different system was less than it had been in
this country. He undertook to show that they were less
in this country than elsewhere. By Mr. Jacob's report
at Hamburgh, that emporium of free trade, the prices va-
ried in 1817 from 625. 3d. to 81s. 9d.; average for the year,
725. In 1820 the average was 565., the lowest price being
265. 4d. The average of the last years for the same place
was 235. 5(1.; that of March, 1825, being 20s. 9d. that
of Sept. in the same year 19s. Id. In 1817, at the same
place,barley averaged 355. id.; which fell in 1825 to 10s. Bd.
average for the last five or six years, 118. At Cracow,
during the same periods, wheat, first at 575. 10,1., fell at
last to 12s. 9d. ; average for six years, 19e. Sd. At Dant-
sic, in 1817, average price of wheat 84s. ; in 1811 it was
225. 6d. ; in 1825, 265. 4d. The variation was qua-
druple in those countries, while at home it was only double.
He objected to making corn subject to those principles of
free trade which had failed with respect to other commodi-,
ties. He was completely hostile to the application of those.
theoretic principles which, he believed, would bring fatal
consequences in their train. The design was to keep our.
markets always open to the commodities of all the nations
in the world. They were bound to look forward. England
must necessarily remain the highest and most enticing
market unless they could reduce her superior wealth and
resources to the average standard of property, and to the
poverty of other nations. He complained of the bonding
system as another means of inducement and temptation to
speculate in corn. The tendency of the bill proposed was
to drive capital abroad, not only to grow corn, but to pro-
vide ships and navigation to bring it here. This was
proved by the increase of foreign tonnage whenever expor-
tation was admitted. If the measure could be proved to
have no tendency to increase the importation and consump-
tion of foreign corn, his objections to it would be dimi-
nished. Of this he was quite persuaded, that the hn-
portation of foreign corn would have the effect of
driving capital from the cultivation of British laud.-.
It had, he knew, been assumed; that the high war
prices had brought poor land into cultivation; That
he denied, and on the contrary; was prepared to
contend that the high prices had brought into cultivation
large quantities of the richest land-they likewise stimu-
lated a more improved system of agriculture, so that in
point of fact the public had in the result a greater and a
cheaper supply. What was the time when this blow was
aimed at agriculture? When they were told by a disciple
of M‘Culloch that an Emigration Committee must expa.
triate the hest part of their agricultural population-when
100,000 of the peasantry of Ireland were to be sent to
Canada, at an expence of 1001. for each man. In this
state of things, to call for the introduction of foreign corn
upon the proposed scale, would be to promote the growth
of labour abroad, and discourage it at home. They had
beard a-great deal of the average prices according to Mr.
Jacob's report, but they should recollect what value ought
to attach to averages when the paper prices and restored
currency prices were jumbled together in one common
amis. The Hon. Member then referred to Mr. Jacob's
prices (upon a five yean's average) ; at Hamburgh of
235. 5d., Dantzic, 275. 4d., Berlin, 275. Bd., Warsaw
and Prague, 21s. 5d., and Cracow, 19s. ld., which made
a main average of 235. Bid. This would he to promote a
delivery of the article in the Thames, at 30s. This price,
with the additional duties, would at once bring the fo-
reigner to compete with the home grower, when the price
was 555. in this country. In any view which lie could
take of the proposed measure, lie thought it was an expe-
riment not only doubtful, but dangerous, and more parti-
cularly so in the present depressed state of agriculture ;
and that, if carried, it must inevitably have the effect of
annihilating capital, and driving the most able agricultu-
rists from the country. .
Captain GORDON said, that connected as he was with
Scotland, he could not refrain from making a few observa-
tions on the present occasion. It was obvious without any
great insight into political economy, that the beat criterion
of the prosperity of any country would be found in the con-
dition of its labouring population. At present, he re-
gretted to say that there was not an adequate demand for
labour. In 1815 it was said this country could grow her
own adequate supply of corn. At another time they had
been told by the same authority, that distress had fallen
upon the country by over production ; and at a still later
period, they, were informed that they ialttistelford some en-
couragernent to obtain the aznieta,nee ~oet ,thet.-gretwat og
foreign corn, to supply the home market. If the last pro-
position were adopted, that in the proportion of the contri-
bution of the foreigner to make up the 15,000,000 of quar-
ters, which was the average consumption of the country,
there usu.% be a subtraction et borne :lablessas, Wow,
unless this diminution were to be supplied by a counter-
vailing increase of demand for the manufacturing interests,
the country would be injured by the depreciation of its
agriculture. Whatever injury followed, would be first felt,
he feared, in Scotland, from the nature of the land
which was there cultivated. They might be told, per-
haps, that pocir land ought not to be cultivated. What,
however, was to happen to these for whom it furnished
labour? That was what he apprehended. When the
proper time came, he should propose that, with respect to
the averages, the prices at the maritime ports of Scotland
and Ireland should be included, in order that the averages
might be taken throughout the whole United Kingdom.-
For the present lie should support the amendment of the
Hon. Baronet.

Mr. R. PALMER disapproved bah of the resolutions
and the };i11.

Mr. W. WHITMORE said, that as hehad so often de-
livered his sentiments upon this subject on former occasions
he did not feel himself justified in trespassing long upon
the attention of the House. He could not, however, re-
frain from offering a few observations upon one or two
points. It had been said that the result of this measure
would be to throw lands of inferior quality out of cultiva-
tion. No such thing would take place. No such
thing had hitherto taken place, although the average
prices for the last seven years had been less than those of
the preceding ten years. Since 1820 the average prices
had been 575. 3d., and during the ten years before 1820
they had been 87s. The land in England was not capa-
ble of producing sufficient for the consumption of the
country, and therefore a quantity of Foreign corn
might be admitted without injuring anybody. With
respect to the low price at which it had been
asserted And foreign corn would be imported, the
matter had been very highly coloured. In 1821, at Dant-
sic, the best wheat fetched from 345. to 365. per quarter ;
wheat of the second quaility from 31s. to 325. per quarter;
and wheat of a third quality from 28s. to 295. per quarter.
He did not believe that any but wheat of the latter quality
would find its way into this country. The agricultural
gentlemen had therefore been frightened at a bugbear ; and
in truth it was impossible to bring corn into England at
the low price which has been stated. In all the calcula-
tions upon this subject, the profits which the merchants
must necessarily make upon the transaction had been
wholly left out of the question. When these were consi-
dered, together with the freight, he was sure it would be
found that this wheat could not be brought from Dantzic,
and sold in the London market, for less than 475. per quar-
ter.
This was really understating the matter, and he
believed it would be found that it could not be brought to
market for less than 50s. The opposition which was
made to this measure was founded in gross delusion, and
reminded him of a petition which had been presented to
that House 70 or 80 years ago against the making of turn-
pike-roads, which the petitioners stated would ruin their
markets, by facilitating communication and introducing
competition.—(A laugh.)—He should certainly give his
vote in favour of the second reading of the Bill.
Mr. G. PHILIPS thought the bill before the House
preferable to the present system, and therefore he should
vote for it. He thought that Government had no right to
busy themselves with calculating and enumerating prices,
and fixing a minimum of price as they were now doini,. ,
but that people ought to be left to buy and sell by them-
selves. The doctrine, that when prices were high, the
profits of the manufacturer and the wages of the labourer
were high also, and that therefore the best policy was to
raise prices by artificial means, was one which he thought
that no man in his senses would adopt. By a parity of
reasoning it might be proves that high poor-rates were ad-
vantageous. It was a remarkable fact, that the price of
corn and poor-rates had risen and fallen together, that the
poor-rates were high when the price of corn was high, and
low when the price of corn was low. The only objec-
tion which he had to this measure was, that it did not
carry the principles of free trade far enough with regard
to the trade in corn; he had, however, no alternative
between this bill and the old system, and therefore he
should vote for the Bill.

Mr. E. WODEHOUSE could not bring hinn•elf to be-
lieve that 60s. was a fair remunerating price. A great
deal had been said about the prices of corn abroad, but he
thought that the House was still only imperfectly acquaint.•
ed with the prices of the foreign markets. The Ho,
Member entered into a detail of the various prices which
foreign and British corn had reached for several years past,
and deprecated any rash alteration of a system by which
the agricultural interest of the country had been hitherto
protected.
Mr. C. PELHAM made some observations, which were
totally inaudible in the gallery.
Sir THOMAS ACLANI) was extremely unwilling,
after the discussions which bad taken place, after the arl?i-

tration of the Government had as it Were been awarded,
the subject should come to be again agitated in the next
Session of Parliament. If he doubted whether it would
be wise for the agriculturists to press for the 645., against
the opinion of the House, it was because that opinion had
been expressed in a satisfactory manner, and on repeated
occasions. After all that had taken place, he was con-
vinced that any resistance to the Bill would be to place the
agricultural interest in a worse situation than it had been
before. For this reason he found it impossible to concur
with the amendment of his Hon. Friend (Sir T. Leth-
bridge), but as he was desirous that the Bill should he
passed in as complete a state as possible, lie should propose
any such alterations in the Committee as he thought might
tend to its perfection.

Mr. BANKES thought it was much better for the coun-
try to stand by the law of 1822, than to trust to the ex-
periment of the Bill before them. The universal prayer of
the farmers was that the House would let them alone. If
the prices from 1793 to 1799 were referred to, it would
be found that the present prices of corn were as low within
a shilling (last week they were lower) as they had been
then. He conceived that the system of prohibition to a
cer+ extent was the safest principle after all for the coun-
try ~. .illow.—(Coughing, and cries of " Order.")—His
's Ministers, in framing the resolutions respecting
the iiumission of foreign corn, seemed to act on the prin-
ciple that corn in this country should be as cheap as it was
elsewhere. Now this, he conceived, tb be perfectly erro-
neous. If you want corn as cheap as at Odessa, why the
only way to effect that object would be to go and live at
Odessa.—(Here the coughing, and cries of "
Question,"
became so general, that the don. Gentleman was forcedto
discontinue his observations for a few moments.) There
was one maxim which he conceived should govern a nation
as well as individuals,--he meant that maxim which en-
forced the necessity of industry, in order to increase the
means of life. He could not see why a nation should not
follow this rule, which was so useful to individuals; and
he would further say, that the best mode to secure the in-
dependence of a country was to encourage the production
of its own lands, and to give employment to its own labour.
Every other means of enriching a country would be illusive
and perishable.--(Loud laughing.)
An Hon. Member, who sat at the Ministerial side of the
House, but whose name we could not learn, gave his sup-
port to the Bill, although he was of opinion that his Ma-
jesty's Ministers had not acted altogether fairly to the coun-
try by proposing a rate of duty which they afterwards al-
tered.

An Hon. Member, whose name we were unable to
learn, gave his cordial support to the Bill.
Mr: PORTMAN wished for a change in the Corn Laws
because he-was persuaded that the system heretofore ptw-
sued could, not be maintained any longer.—(Hear, hear.)
He did not like the resolutions of his Majesty's Ministers ;:
hut, objectionable as they were, he preferred them to the'
existing state of the law. The country considered that the
question of the Corn Laws was disposed of; therefore, if
the House rejected this Bill, the country would be placed
in considerable alarm.
Sir EDWARD KNATCIIBULL had seen no reason to
change the opinion which he bad expressed before with re-
spect to the resolutions proposed by his Majesty's Ministers,
which he now felt it his duty .again to oppose. The Hon.
Baronet complained, that those who composed the majority
by whose vote the resolutions were carried on a former'
evening, were members in the interest of Government,
aided by those Members who composed what should be the
Opposition.—(Hear, hear.)—His Majesty's Ministers, in
proposing the present Bill, seemed to act upon the principle,
that the system of free trade was good for the country.
Now, he was one of those who thought that free trade'
might be carried too far, in which case it was a system the
most unwise for a country to pursue, unless, indeed, a re-!
duction of taxation were to follow it, without which, the'
principles of free trade could never be enforced. When the
Chancellor of the Exchequer brought forward his financial
statement, the House would then see hovi far the resources of
the country would warrant a reduction in the taxes. If the
price of corn wasreduced, it ought inevitably to follow that the
price of every thing else should be reduced in the same propor-
tion. Were his Majesty's Ministers then, he would ask, wil-
ling to reduce the taxes ? Were, they willine• to propose, that
every description of foreign commodities should be impor-
ted at a reduced duty ? Were they. willing that all de-
partments of the state, civil and military, should be placed
,upon a less expensive footing? But the country would
yuel whether,oLnot liras- a time to reduce the army
believed iit,to be quite impossible to reduce
those establishments at present, consistently with the wel-
fare and safety of the country. Under these circumstances
he was of opinion that these resolutions would produce, if
any, only a partisl good ; and unless the Government was
1.11113+.4 Lisa public 'establishments, lessen the
duties on foreign goods, and reduce the taxation, the
passing of the present Bill would produce no relief what-
ever to the country.

Sir W. W. WYNN gave his cordial support to the re-
solutions proposed by his Majesty's Ministers, and should,
therefore vote for the second reading of the bill. He
denied the truth of the observation of the Hon. Baronet
(Sir E. IC...itchbull), that the resolutions proposed by
Ministers -1-2 re carried by their friends, aided by the votes
of the Opposition ; for he (Sir W. W. Wynn) had given
them his support, although he belonged to neither party.

. Sir T. GOOCIL had not changed his opinion with re-
gard to this Bill, although he had come down to the House
with his mind open to conviction.—(Laughter and cough-
ing.)—He had not heard any argument w alter his opi-
nion, or to cause him to change the vote which he had
given on a former evening. The Hon. Member for Bridge-
north had given the House a detailed essay on political eco-
nomy, but he (Sir T. Gooch) had heard so much of politi-
cal economy as connected with the corn question, that
without any objection to the men, he was heartily sick of
political economists altogether, and he wished_ them no
further harm than that a clause should be inserted in the
present bill, enacting that every vessel laden with foreign
corn destined for this country should take back, instead of
ballast, a cargo of political econornists.—(Great laugh-
ing. )—lt was all very fine for his Hon. Friend (Mr. Whit-
more) to talk of the benefit which the country would de-
rive from cheap bread ; but if his Hon. Friend were in a
country where the bread was only 3d. a loaf, and he had
but a penny to buy it, he would derive very little benefit
from his doctrine of cheap bread, and would soon wish him-
self back amongst the electors of Bridgenorth.—(Renewed
laughter)—Whenever this law passed, it would have the
effect of stimulating foreigners to bring land into cultiva-
tion. which would otherwise lie neglested. Thousands
an ausands of acres of poor land would thus be brought
int mpetition with the poor lands of this country, and he
mtt, be a bold man who could tell at what low price fo-
reign corn could be sold here. In conclusion, he must say,
that not having heard any thing in the arguments of this
evening to alter the opinion he had before expressed, he
would oppose the Bill.
The House then divided, when there appeared.
For the second reading, 24,3 I For the amendment, 78
Majority 165
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed to-morrow (this day).