The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-15 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, MARCH_ 15, 1842

Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL presented some petitions
from a number of Irish millers against the importatiOn
of flour into Ireland.

Sir W. CLAY presented a petition against the pre.
sent Corn-laws.
REFORM OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from Fins.
bury praying for a Radical Reform of the House o
Commons.
NOTICES OF MOTION.

Mr. WODEHOUSE begged to give notice, that on
to-morrow, he would move that a statement be laid on
the table of the House, spewing the average price of
barley in the years of 1838, 1839, 1840, and 1841 ; also
for a similar return respecting the port of Stettin.
Dr. BOWRING pursuant to notice, begged "to inquire
respecting returns ordered during the last Session, as to
the taxes in continental countries, especially those levied
on land." He would take that opportunity of stating that
he had no reason to complain of the want of courtesy and
attention on the part of Government. He found them
-very willing to give attention to any application of his.
With respect to the returns, he had found them of a
-eery unsatisfactory nature. The Hon. Gentleman
was proceeding to state that on a subject of
such importance as this, the Orders of the House
ought to be promptly attended to, when he was inter-
rupted by cries of " Order, order, Chair, chair.".
Sir R. PEEL said that several returns had been re-
ceived, Lnd others had not. Some of those returns which
had been received, were not drawn up in a form to make
them intelligible. The returns were not complete ; but
he should examine those which had been received, and
he had no objection to give the most perfect returns.
. Dr. BOWRING made some observation respecting
former returns, which did not reaah us.
Mr: GLADSTONE would take that opportunity of
stating that the returns respecting France (as we under •
stood) should be laid on the table of the House in the
course of this evening.
On the motion of Mr. MACKINNON, the follow-
ing Members were nominated a Select Committee, to
improve the health of towns by preventing interments
within their precincts :—Mr. Mackinnon, Sir Matthew
Wood, Mr. D'Eyncourt, Lord Ashley, Mr. T. Dun-
combe, Mr. Evelyn Dennison, Sir W. Clay, Sir R. H.
Inglis. Mr. Beckett, Mr. Ainsworth, Viscount Sandon,
Mr. Cowper, Colonel Acton, Mr. Vernon, and Mr.
Kemble.

decision condemnatory of the proceeding of the French • upon land at least to the extent of ss. an acre,
Government. M. Gonzales, the President of the Coun- The Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir R. Peel) went '
cil, on the 27th of February, declared that the Bri- into the discussion, but there were no grounds whatever
tish Government had at first appeared satisfied with assigned by the Right Honourable Baronet as a reason
the course taken by the French Government, but that for imposing a higher rate of duty upon the im-
Lo
Aberdeen had afterwards changed his opinion. portation of foreign corn, but the reasoning of the
There could be no doubt that any discussion in Right Honourable Baronet being of such incalculable
that House made on the Chamber of Deputies importance upon the subject, he (Mr. Ward) hoped that
ought to be deprecated ; but if a French Minister he would to-night advert to some of the reasons which
stated facts which affected the character of a British influenced him. Mr. M'Culloch said he believed that
Minister, he thought they had a right to expect an ex- land was more heavily taxed in England than any other
planation upon the matter. Now, he found that ; species of property in the country, and he assigned as a
M. Guizot, on the 10th of this month, stated that reason for duty on corn, that it should be sufficient to
he had official knowledge of a despatch sent by Lord ' counteract those burdens ; but that opinion was, based
Aberdeen to our Minister at Madrid, in which . upon the assumption that land was more heavily
Lord Aberdeen gave his full sanction to the pro- i taxed than any other description of property. Mr.
ceding taken by the French Government. M. ; M'Culloch also said, " that so long as taxation
Guizot added that he had too much confidence affected all classes equally, none of them had
in the firmness of mind and in the honour of Lord ' any right to complain, but when taxation began to press
Aberdeen, to suppose that he would retract that opinion. ' more severely on one class than on others, that moment
His (Mr. Sheil's) question was, whether Lord Aber- ; the more heavily taxed class were entitled to equivalent
deen had written any despatch to our Minister at protection." The question then was, whether land was
Madrid, signifying his approval of the course adopted by more heavily taxed than any other species of property ?
the French Government in reference to the delivery of The question was not whether the burdens on land in
the credentials of M. Salvandy ; and whether Lord ' this country were greater than those of Prussia or Poland,
Aberdeen, after having written such a despatch, had ! or other countries—they were to show that the land of
expressed a different opinion to that which he originally 1 England bore peculiar burdens—not only that they were
entertained. • 1 burdens, but that they were imposed upon the land,
Sir R. PEEL cordially agreed with the Right Hon. ; not merely for the benefit of those classes who were
Gentleman in lamenting that the necessity did arise for ; subject to those burdens, but for other classes who were
making references in that House to debates and discus- ! entitled to protection. Mr. M'Culloch's other argu-
sions which might take place in a popular Assembly in 1 meats went on to show that land was a species of pro-
another country. In order that he might explain the pert), that could not be concealed—that it was more
course pursued by Her Majesty's Government upon the visible than other species of property, and, therefore,
subject brought under their consideration, it was neces- that it was more heavily taxed. Then, as to the
sary he should enter into some details. What- speech of the Right Hon. Baronet himself (Sir R. Peel),
ever opinion her Majesty's Government might have en- he said he preferred the principle of the descending and
tertained or expressed upon the subject, had not ascending scale of duty on foreign corn ; however, the
the slightest practical influence upon the course taken convictions upon that subject entertained by the Right
by the Spanish Government. The Spanish Government Hon. Baronet at present appeared to be entirely new; he
had taken its course upon its own sense of duty. Before did not entertain them to anything like the same extent
the opinion expressed by her Majesty's Government had as he did in 1834. The question was at that time
been received at Madrid the question was disposed of. brought forward by Lord Chandos, who drew a most
M. Salvandy was accredited by the King of the French heart-rending picture of the state of the agriculturists
to the Queen of Spain. The English Government had at that period, and stated that their condition was becom-
heard with great regret, that at a critical period a dif- ing worse every day. During the discussion of the question
ference of opinion was likely to arise between the Go- in 1834, there was a great deal of talk and observation
vernment of France and the Government of Spain about the burdens then borne, but they were not pre-
that might lead to an interruption of all diplomatic rela- cisely defined. Every speaker, almost, dwelt upon
tions between the two countries. They therefore felt it the extraordinary extent of tithes, the poor-rtites, and ,
their duty,,actuated by a feeling of interest in the affairs other taxes, which, they said, would swallow up all the
of Spain, to tender their advice to the Spanish Govern- profits of the land. There was hardly a subject that
merit with reference to that possible case of difference. was not adverted to. Mr. Cobbett, who was at
There had been recently in Spain an attempt made upon that time in the House, attributed the whole
the Palace of the Queen at Madrid—an attempt upon distress which was then suffered in the coun-
her person, and there had been considerable excitement try to the standing army. The malt tax
and disturbance in some of the provinces of Spain. was also adverted to. Lord Chandos represented the
The deliberate feeling of the people of Spain malt tax then, as amounting to between 70/. and 801
in favour of the existing Government, enabled upon every farmer who had 250 acres of land. At that
that Government to suppress the attempts in question time the Member for Lincolnshire said that the malt tax
They thought it would be unfortunate in every view of was the most injudicious—the most partial, and unjust of
the diplomatic interest between France and Spain should all taxes, and the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) upon
it be suspended. They had very recently made pro- that occasion rode the storm most gallantly. The Right
posals to the northern Courts, particularly the Court of Hon. Baronet pointed out what must be the inevitable
Austria, earnestly recommending them to recognise consequences of the repeal of that tax—he said if it
the existing Government of Spain, for the purpose of 'was repealed they should come to the property tax.
giving stability to that Government, and through that The language the Right Honourable Baronet
stability encouraging the people to apply themselves used was, that it was better to bear " the light
to the pursuits of industry, and to the ordinary avoca- pressure of a malt tax than the dreadful scourge of a
tions which marked a state of tranquillity ; and property tax." The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for
they entertained fears, that if there should be an Dorchester, who was not then so nearly connected with
interruption of the diplomatic intercourse between the Government as he was now, enumerated the burdens
France and Spain, their efforts to induce the other upon land. Poor-rates, he said, pressed heavily, but as
Governments of Europe to recognise the Govern- to tithes, there was reason to hope that something
meat of Spain might fail. They therefore ex- would be done to lighten their weight. Then
pressed to the Government of Spain a hope that it might as to the county rates, a reduction of • that
be possible to reconcile these differences. The question rate was distinctly promised to the landed interests.
arose upon the 59th article of the Constitution. That All the authoritieleon the subject had overruled the ar-
article declared that the Regency should exercise all the gument. The peculiar burdens which were borne by
authority of the Queen, in whose name the acts of the the land were, even according to the Right Honour-
Government should be performed. They suggested to able Baronet, only three—poor-rates, county-rates, and
the Government of Spain that it might be pos- highway-rates, and for these it was contended that the
sible that an arrangement should take place farmers were entitled to a compensation far beyond Bs. a
which should reserve to the Regent of Spain quarter. All the other burdens had been removed—
the whole of the authority which the insti- the tax upon farm servants, upon dogs, upon horses
tution intended to devolve upon him, and should yet employed in agricultural labour ; and in those burdens
respect the Royal dignity in what appeared to be rather that remained, and which the Right Hon. Baronet sup-
a matter of ceremony and etiquette than a substantial act. posed the farmers to bear exclusively, there had been a
They suggested that these letters should be delivered to i great and grogressive diminution. In 1834 the amount,
the Queen in the presence of the Regent, but that any according to the returns, was 6,879,0001. In 1837, it was
act of authority connected with the reply to those 4,144,7411., which showed a reduction of 36 per cent. But
letters should be performed by the Regent. A in 1840 the diminution was only 26 per cent. If you
course somewhat similar to that had been pursued went back a few years earlier, for instance to 1820, the
both in the case of Greece and of the Brazils, amount would be found to be 9,685,000/. Now he asked
when the Sovereign upon the Throne was a minor. In was it for the period of the larger or the smaller amount
the case of Greece the letters of credence were delivered of the burden, the compensation was to be given ?
to the Infant King in the presence of the Regent, and (Hear, hear.) If any compensation were given, it would
were handed by the King to the Regent. In the case be a compensation for mis-spending—it would be to
of Brazil, the Regent of Brazil issued a decree re- require other people to reimburse the farmers for hav-
quiring the letters of credence of foreign Ambas- ing allowed their poor-rates to run high.—(Hear, hear.)
sadors to be delivered to him in the absence of But at all events the compensation could not be fairly
the King. That assumption by him was resisted by distributed, and in giving it to the farmers you would
the Courts which had accredited Ministers, and increase the burden of the towns. Look at the pro-
an arrangement was made by whim the letters were portion of agricultural property to other kinds of property.
delivered to the Regent, in the presence of the King. The whole rental of agricultural land was thirty-nine
Before that advice, however, could be received by the millions and a half. The rental of other kinds of pro-
Spanish Government, that Government acted upon its own perty was thirty-three millions and a half ; and the
construction of the Constitution of Spain. He believed duty on corn, which was to protect the one, was a heavy
that Government acted with perfect sincerity in giving burden upon the other, and greater than all the burdens
that construction to the article of Regency. The Go- said to press exclusively upon the land. The
vernment resolved, and the Cortes resolved, that it was railways were very heavily taxed. The agriculturists
inconsistent with the Constitution that the Queen should could not say that they had done much to make rail-
receive the letters of credence, but that even that ways. But they took good care to tax them when any
act of ceremony should be performed by the Regent line passed through a parish, and these roads were
himself. They never questioned the perfect taxed highly to the poor-rates. In fact, more than
right of the Spanish Government to place its one-third of the poor-rates were paid by property
own construction upon its own Constitution ; and unconnected with agriculture. The land was further ye-
as
he said before, the Spanish Government had lieved of part of its share of the burden by the shifting
give that construction to the Constitution, and had acted of the population into the towns, which had amounted
upon it before their advice was received in Spain. to 300,000 persons since the last' census. The agri-
They regretted that that construction was placed upon culturists had no more right to come to that House
the article, entertaining a sincere desire to promote the wel- for compensation for their poor-rates at the public ex-
fare of Spain, and fearing that those consequences would re- pease, than the parish of Marylebone, or of Lam-
suit which had resulted from the diplomatic interference beth, had to come for the payment of their
of France ; but they had never questioned the perfect rates out of the Consolidated Fund. Another
right of the Spanish Government and the Spanish of the so-called exclusive burdens was the
authorities, who were the superior authority, to county-rate. Now that impost was only the means
decide this question for themselves.—(Hear, hear.) of providing for the administration of justice
The advice was offered before they knew the con- and the protection of property and life. It
struction which would be put upon the article, was no more:than the Legislature took care to compel the
and no other Power had a right to quarrel with boroughs to submit to. When the charter was given to the
them for their interpretation of an article of their town which he had the honour to represent, the Secretary
own Constitution. Their opinion, however, on this insisted upon a provision for a similar impost for similar
subject had never changed. He (Sir Robert Peel) purposes. Therefore this was no exclusive burden
knew not on what authority the Honourable Gen- upon agricniture, nor one which called for com-
tleman said that M. Gonzalez stated that there had pensation.—(Hear, hear.) Again, looking to the
been a change of opinion on the part of the British proportion of arable and pasture land, it would be seen
Government. Their opinion was that the ceremony that the compensation to the holders of the one would be
might be performed by the Duke. They offered that direct injustice to those who held the other. The quantity
suggestion to the Spanish Government, in ignorance of of pasture land was 14,000,000 of acres—that of arable
the interpret tion which might be put upon the article land was 20,000,000.—(Here the Honourable Gen-
by the Spanish authorities. That report, to which the tleman was heard very indistinctly.)—With re-
Right Hon. Gentleman had referred, with respect to an spect to the highway-rates, why the roads
allegation of M. Gonzales, was entirely without founda- were the streets of the agriculturial districts,
tion. M. Guiz•it was certainly correct in his and they had no more right to come to the public for the
assumption that the opinions of the British expense of those ways, than the pt ople of the City of
Government had undergone no change. He had now London would have . to come to the House
answered, as well as he was able, the question of the for the disbursement of the lighting, paving,
Hon. Gentleman. He trusted that the House would, as and cleansing, from the Consolidated Fund. But
far as possible, abstain from these references. He ad- all the main trunks were supported by tolls.
mitted that the Right Hon. Gentleman had drawn a just The highway-rate went to keep up the cross-roads which
distinction between other cases and cases in which a were for the convenience of the farmers alone, and what
question arose as to the conduct of the _British Govern- use was a farm without roads ? We could draw a
ment. lie had confined himself to the explanation great portion of our supply of corn from Spain, but
sought by the Right Honourable Gentleman.—(Hear. that there are not sufficient roads communicating between
hear.) He had studiously avoided all reference to the agricultural districts and the sea ; and in Germany
debates, whether in the Spanish Legislature or in the there was abundance of corn in the interior, but there
Chamber of Deputies, believing that nothing had a were not sufficient means of conveying it to the coast.
greater tendency to provoke feelings of ill-will, and to He then came to tithes, which he said were not a
excite mutual recrimination, than allusions towhat passed burden on the agriculturists. It was a co-proprietary.
in the Legislature of other States.--(Hear, hear.) The farmers took the land subject to tithes, and they
Lord PALMERSTON said he quite agreed with the accordingly paid the less rent. He differed from man
Right Honourable Baronet in deprecating allusions in in that House on the subject of tithes. He had his owny
the Legislature of one country, to what might have passed views as to the purposes to which that. property should
in the Legislature of another. But, at the same time, be applied. But he maintained, however, that it was
there was perhaps something still more to be deprecated, public property, and the payment was no ore a burden
. which was that a misconception should go. forth to on the farmer than was the payment of his rent.
Europe with regard to the conduct and opinions of the As for tithes, they were certainly a burden on the te-
Government of this country upon political ques- nant, but for relief they should look to the Commutation
tions of great importance.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Act now in progress through the country, not to the
He thought, under all the circumstances, that import duties on foreign corn. But the landlords had
it would have been an unworthy compromise. It was not no claims whatever to redress on this account. Church-
now, for the first time since the Government had come rates were also spoken of as a burden on land, but really
into the possession of power, that misconceptions had their whole amount was miserable, not exceeding
arisen, and had been repeated in foreign countries, as 506,0001., on a rental of 40,000,000/ ; one-third of this
to the opinions and expressions of the English was paid by Dissenters. The Honourable Member for
Government. He begged to ask the Right Oxford and his supporters called Church-rates a
Honourable Baronet, therefore, whether it would be right of property, possessed by the Church from
inconvenient in this case to pursue the course that had ancient times ; then they should not also call them a
been adopted with regard to the conversation on burden on land for which they were entitled to com-
the occupation of Algiers, and to lay on pensation. In 1839 the amount paid by the land for
the table of the House any despatches or in- poor-rates and county-rates was 5,412,685/., and de-
structions that had been forwarded to Lord Cowley or. ducting the amount of county-rates, the sum paid
Mr. Aston, with respect to the difference between France for the poor and the administration of justice
and Spain. That was how the position in which England by the land was 3,680,000/. Their share of the
stood to France, for whatever might be the cause, it the
was 534,946/., making the whole
paid74oBul,n3t7oi.
Ofi lgeal
general
ln
tbayxattiheen,laamndedennitnitnegresttes
was desirable that those contradictions that had been
made with regard to the language of the English Go-
fse3n,OnOdo,oroeoryl.,
small
proportion; they paid would be
vernment should be cleared up.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said the Spanish Government
•t would be but coming to the land tax
opsh. shifted l
had no other motive but to promote the wel-
land and housesfotl asu d
the t hlaatt latter it
sprwanags
fare of the country, and the interference of
1,11w7a2541
the English Government was made solely from the
fallent a x fo ronlaestiti yeares
117,3411, of which there far°hadndin-
burden
latter kind of property,
on which so much of Ihe3 had been shifted, might
same desire. His present impression was that the pro-
be said to have sprung up within the last 150 years. If the
duction of the papers referred to would be an imy-
prudent course. Though it would do no injur
land tax were now paid as it was on
oau g
rd
eba et
to the English Government, yet it would be no advan-
which was 4s. in the pound, the aaiVonanatllyAi• m 1
tage either to Spain or France.posed,
8,000,000/. ; but, even in agricultural districts,
Mr. SHIEL said the statement had first appeared in
the Morning Herald and the Morning Chronic k. portion was paid by household property. Though his
Hon. Friend the Member for Bolton did not procure the
Sir R. PEEL said at the time the English Govern-
ment offered its advice, they were not aware of the con- returns he asked for the other night, we had still
struction which the Spanish Government placed on some important data as to the proportion the landed
the particular article of the constitution, but the interests paid in other countries towards the burdens of
moment they were aware of it, they admitte
ut d the State. The whole revenue of Prussia was
its own interpretation on the Charter.
the right of the Spanish Government to p 51;000,000 of thalers, of which the land paid
EXC HEQUE R BILLS. as land tax 26,000,000, or more than one-half.
The Exchequer Bills Bill passed through Committee. In Austria the revenue was 164,000,000, of which the
CORN IMPORTATION BILL—BURDENS ON ' Ind paid 87 000,000. In France the revenue was
The House having resolved itself into Committee on milliardl and 'seven hundred and fifty thousand francosne;
the land paid 359,499,000 francs.' In Belgium the
the Corn Importation Bill,
Mr.WARD brought
said his motion on the 4
burdens" on land. He said he had some reason ;(; Ml' proportion paid by the land was also very large.
n ii The land tax in England was not a fourth of the
ar amount drawn from the poor man's tobacco,
and not more than the amount raised upon
that the motion of which he had given notice was,
point of fact, necessary to any legislation on the pres'eniti soap. Then there was the window tax, which no one
subject, and it was not his fault if he had not brought it would say was a peculiar burden on the land ;
forward. He had taken the earliest moment open to the amount of the window tax was 1,400,000/., and
him for the discussion, but he was disappointed in his of this the landowners paid, perhaps, one-third.
hopes by the very unusual appearance of the benches If they took the taxes on horses, dogs, carriages, and ar-
opposite on that day, which arose doubtless from a very
some
a other taxes,
Inorial bearings, the landowners were not the only class
subjected to them. But if they gave them the excluisive
natural wish to give the Right Honourable Baronet a contribution to the duties on dogs, game certificates, and
day's relaxation before making his important statement.
with
horial bearings, this would be about 389,000 L, leaving,
But the motion he had brought forward was absolutely
direct
essential to a consideration of the question. It was in-1,812,0002 as their share of the
trinsically important, and it had acquired additional thattaxation of the country. It must be recollecited
importance by the opinions that had been lately was only
the number of landowners and occupiers
general taxation
187,000.
expressed both in that House and out of it.—(Hear.)
this
the local_ and,
The subject was very generally debated out of that to place some of class, they had also
House too. Mr. M'Culloch went into the consideration of
it very carefully, and assumed that there were burdens the land was exem
pted from stamp duty, which was

perty. He begged, therefore, to move—" That it is in-
expedient to impose any duty upon the importation of
foreign corn, until this House shall have inquired whether
there are Ay special burdens peculiarly affecting the
landed interest of this country or any special exemptions
enjoyed by that interest, and shall have ascertained their
nature and extent."
Mr. S. CRAWFORD seconded the motion.
Col. T. WOOD (Brecknockshire) said he would only
address a few observations, as the subject was so much
exhausted after so many nights' debate, that if he at-
tempted to occupy the House at any great length, it
would not be disposed to listen to him. Though the
Hon. Member seemed to think that there were no
peculiar burdens on land, and went through a long
string of figures, in which he could not very clearly
follow him, in order to make oat that the land was not
very heavily burdened, yet he held in his hand a piper
that had been laid on the table of the House, which he
thought would show that there was one peculiar burden
in which the poor of the country was deeply interested,
and for which the land was peculiarly responsible. In
1826 it appeared that the poor rate was no less
than 6,966,0001., of which 4,795,0001. was paid
by land, and 1,814,0001. by dwelling-houses.
He was unwilling to draw before the House any contrast be-
tween the manufacturers and agriculturists, and the burdens
borne by each, because he did not stand up for the Corn-laws
on the ground that the land was solely interested in the ques-
tion, but because he maintained that renters were deeply inte-
rested on Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman put out
of his view the price of the cultivation of land in foreign coun.
tries ; but a main consideration in the question was the price of
production in foreign countries, and whether a multitude of
labourers would not be thrown out of employment if the Corn-
laws were abolished. That is the consideration whioh regulated
the Corn-laws for the last 150 yesrs. Hon. Gentlemen were
mistaken in supposing that the Corn-laws gave the agricultu-
rists particular gains. It is not the object of the Corn-law to
do that, but its object is, to prohibit foreign importa-
tion when the home supply was sufficient. That was
its object for the last 150 years. In the year 1791
when the price was 51s. the duty was very large, but when it
was 535. the duty was only 2s. 6d. If Hon. Gentleman
only looked at the law, they, would find its character was to
regulate the importation according to the home supply, and not
to give agriculturists any particular favour. In the year 1815
a material change took place. and it was enacted that when the
price of corn was ender 80s. foreign corn was prohibited, but
when it was 80s. unlimited importation was permitted. He
hoped the bonding system would never be departed from. It
was one which required a gradual scale of duties to bring the
corn gradually and smoothly into the market, and prevent a
supply from overstocking the market. He thought the Right
Hun. Baronet, in the measure which he had introduced,
had endeavoured to hold the scales as evenly as possible between
the whole of the interests of the country. However Hon.
Gentlemen opposite might endeavour to retard the progress of
the Bill lie believed that people out of the House were con-
vinced that the present system was the one most likely to hold
out a fair prospect of a regular and steady supply of corn. The
whole trade in corn aas suspended on account of the delay
given to the Bill now before the House : so he had learnt that
day from a gentleman from Mark-lane, and he was sure no
greater injury could be done to our poor agricultural and
manufacturing friends, for whom he was equally interested,
that by de eying that measure.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. GIBSON did not agree with the Hon. Gentleman who
last spoke, that we already had had'cliscussion enough. He (Mr.
G. )=thought we had not yet had half enough of discussion on
the burdens on land.—(Cheers,) We have had, indeed,
a great deal about the sliding scale, and the
fixed duty, and the various concerns of the landed interest, but
on no one occasion vet had we had a solemn and grave discus-
sion as to the peculiar buydens on land.—( Cheers) The Hon.
and Gallant Colonel surprised him by referring to the par
rates so far back as the year 1826, to shew the heavy burdens
on land. Why did not he refer to a later period?—(Hear,
hear.) The rates were certainly heavy at a former period,
especially in the agricultural districts, because the wages of
labourers were paid out of the poor-rates—(Hear, hear)—
and thus the traders and the occupiers of land were taxed to
pay the farmer's labourers.—( Hear, hear.) The Corn.law
question was fairly before the House, and the country was
much indebted to his Hon. Friend, the Member for Sheffield,
for the able statements he had made.—( Hear, hear.) They
now asked what was the reason that restraints should be put on
the Corn-law trade ?—( Hear, hear.) The onus of proving
the receipts of these burdens, lies upon the Legislature—it was
with them to show that there were peculiar advantages which
counterbalance those burdens. The manufacturers
contend that they had as good a right to produce
corn and other articles with their looms, by inter-
changing their produce with foreign markets, as
the agriculturists had to produce their corn. The manufacturers
say they have as good a right to get a price for their goods as
the agriculturists have to bring the produce of their fields to
market. When the Legislature imposed burdens upon them,
they were asked to show why they restrained them by sliding
scales and other measures of that sort. The Hon. Member
for Sheffield was right in saying that the peculiar burdens upon
land in England constitute the grounds upon which these bur-
dens could be imposed. The head of her Majesty's Government
talked of the necessity of being independent of foreign countries
for the supply of corn—it was clear his own proposition could
not be maintained by the reasons he had urged. In order to
keep England independent of foreign countries, as the popula-
tion of England increased, so ought the protection to increase :
the greater the number of the people, the stroger should be the
forcing power. If it was otherwise, you must inevitably fall
into the condition which the Right Hon. Baronet professed his
anxiety to avoid,viz., into a total dependence upon foreign supplies
of corn. The Right Hon. Baronet could not have any con-
fidence in his own measure. He (Mr. Gibson) did not wish
to use improper terms, but he should say he could not believe
that the Right Hon. Baronet had any confidence in his own
measure—it looked as if the Right Hon. Baronet was merely
pandering to the prejudices of the people.—( Hear, hear. )
The question before the House related, as the Hon. Member
for Sheffield had stated, to the peculiar burdens upon land in
this country, and not to the burdens borne by other countries ;
because, if the House were to consider the duties imposed upon
land in other countries, they should have a different Corn-law
and scale of duty for each of those different countries.
Their only desire was that the pressure of taxation should be
distributed with justice ; if it were not so they were bound
to explain the reason of it, and if possible to dis-
tribute it equally. They had the power of doing so ;
it was absurd to say that they had not ; and of all means
of making compensation, the most absurd was the grant-
ing protection, as it was called, because the commu-
nity was called upon to pay to an almost unlimited extent by
such means. The Hon. Member for Sheffield was right in
asserting, that the peculiar burdens borne by the landed inte-
rest, was the only ground upon which they could ask for pro-
tection. It was very well to talk, at Agricultural Associations,
of agriculture being the great cause of national prosperity—it
was very well to tell the farmers that ; but it would not do in
that House, or among sensible men. It was idle to suppose
that the safety and prosperity of this great empire, with our
colonial possessions, depended upon keeping a few acres of dry
sand, or wet clay, in corn cultivation.—( Cheers.) The pe-
culiar burdens upon land, were the only grounds upon which
this protection could be justified; and if they refused this
Committee, there would be good ground for the suspicion
which existed, that they were legislating for their own
pecuniary interests. Every one knew that, by increas-
ing the price of food, they increased their own incomes.
at the expense of the community—(Cheers.) The Right
Hon. Baronet had admitted, by his constantly maintaining
that all the distress was not attributable to the Corn-laws,
that a small portion of it was so. Now what right had
he by his laws to inflict even a little distress upon his country-
men. If they refused this Committee, they would justify the
suspicions ent rtained of the motives. They had resisted the
importation of corn from Canada—they had resisted the im-
portation of corn from Ireland • nay, at one time the land-
owners in the neighbourhood of the metropolis had resisted the
formation of turnpike roads, because the opening a communi-
cation with the counttj, would, by inducing competition, act
unfavourably on their pecuniary interests. Seeing these things
the people would be justified in suspecting that they were actu-
ated by the same motives at the present time, if they refused
the Committee. He would say that this corn question was
exciting a feeling among the thinking portion of the commu-
nity which had never been known in former times. Hon.
Gentlemen mistook the matter if they thought there was not
an earnest desire to have the Corn-laws repealed. People were
beginning to feel, and to express the feeling, that you have a desire
to degrade and depress the commercial and manufacturing in-
terest, people begin to think, and they have reson for thinking,
that you wi.h to uphold agriculture by keeping down trade
—that you want to elevate one particular class by depressing
another. He would ask, if that was the feeling, whether it
was not calculated to arouse the bitterest animosity between
different classes in this country ? Was it fair or reasonable that
they should always be seeking to secure power and position to
a particular class by means of legislation, instead of endeavour-
ing to promote the general good, in which all should partici-
pate ? It was the feeling of this country that they were legis-
lating with a view to maintain one class in a particular position
in the social scale by depressing the manufacturing inte-
rest. He knew that many manufacturers had upheld
the agricultural interest, but he could tell them that
this servile opinion was passing away and giving place
to loftier views of what was due to the claims of industry and
enterprise, and they would not be satisfied till they were placed
on a lull, fair, and equal fJoting with other classes of the
country, however high their rank, however elevated their
station, or however ancient might be their claims.—( Cheers. )
Mr. DARBY said he was not sorry the House had been
counted out on the night the Hon. Gentleraan had fixed for
his motion, as it had obliged him to develope his views more
fully. If it was the object of the Hon. Gentleman to prove
that, if there were no particular burdens on land, there ought
to be no Corn-laws, he thought he had mistaken the result of
the Corn-laws in the Corn-laws themselves. But a small
portion of corn could be imported at a time, and if they threw
the corn land of the country out of cultivation, by reducing
the price below that at which it could be grown, they would
soom come to famine prices.—(Hear, hear.) The object of
the law was to keep corn at a moderate price, which would en-
courage its cultivation on our own soil.' The authority of the
Import Committee had been referred to, but he would tell
Hon. Gentlemen opposite that that Committee was of no au-
thority whatever. It had exceeded its powers. Why, the
other day, Lord Melbourne himself declared that the report
had brought to his mind nothing new, and had not influ-
enced any one of his opinions. Indeed the Noble Lord, the
head of the late Government, said he was indignant at its being
supposed that the report had caused any one of his opinions to
be changed. If the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ward) had his
Committee, it should not be so narrow. The inquiry should
be made a good deal wider.--( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gen.
tleman said that the malt duty was paid by the consumer, and
was, therefore, no burden on the land. But did not the Hon.
Gentleman know hew much loss it entailed on the farmer, or
how often they went to the Chancellor of the Exchequer to ask
leave to steep the barley to give to their cattle and it was pe-
remptorily refused.? Did not the Hon. Gentleman think that the
tobacco tax •affected the farmers, when he knew that tobacco was
cultivated for a time in Ireland at a great profit, and was sup-
pressed because it interfered with the revenue.—( Hear, hear. )
But the object of the law was not to protect the farmers, or
compensate them for their burcens, but to secure a constant
supply of corn at a reasor.able price ; and if the law was done
away with, then the price of corn would be raised to a famine
price.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Jacob himself said, that if one-
tenth of the corn lard of this country were thrown nut of cul-
tivation, the deficiency could not I e made up from all Euripe.
Dr. BOWRING thought that the Hon. Gentleman who had
just sat down had a right to complain that they were not al-
lowed to cultivate tobacco and beet-root, if they did not want
to be protected by a high duty on foreign produce of the same
kind. The Hon. Gentleman had referred to the Report of the
Import Duties Committee. A great tribute had been paid to
that Report by the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), who
had adopted its recommendations with respect to 750 articles.
—( Hear, hear.) If this inquiry were gone into, Hon. Mem-
bers would find that there was no ground for alarm, on account
of an alteration in the Corn-laws. It was an
undoubted fact, that in almost every other country
but this, land was the great source of revenue. Mr.
M'Culloch estimated that the land tax in France was equal to
one-fifth or one-sixth of the whole revenue. From returns
which he held in his hand, it appeared that the tax called the
impot foncier, realised ten millions and a-half sterling, and
the taxes of registration to seven millions sterling. The land
tax in France amounted to fourteen millions of the whole reve-
nue. The land in this country was more productive than the
land in any other country, and could bear greater burdens in

paid by all except the landlords. The probate duty'
for 1841 was 197,0001.. and legacy duty, 1,200,0001.,
not one shilling of which was levied on real property.-
(Hear, hear.) The sale of lands, tco, was only occa-
sional, but the transfer of other property was perpetual,
and personal property was always taxed in its transmission.
On the transfer of landed property of the value of
seven hundred pounds, and not exceeding one thousand
pounds, there was a stamp duty levied of 9L, but on a
transfer of personal property, in consequence of death,
of the value of 8001., and not exceeding 1,000/., there
was a probate duty of 221., in addition to the
legacy duty. On a transfer of landed pro-
perty of the value of B,OOOL, and not exceed-
ing 10,0001., there was a sta:np duty of 851., which on a
transfer of personal property of the same amount there
was a probate duty levied of 240 L in addition to
the legacy duty. If they took the stamp duty
at 2,000,0001., the utmost that the landed
interest contributed to the stamp duty was half a mil-
lion, leaving one million and a half to be set
against what the landed interest were pleased
to call their peculiar burdens. When they came to consi-
der the exemptions of the landed interest from taxations,
they were really infinite. They paid no probate 'duty,
they paid no legacy duty ; and since 1797 upwards of
81,000,000/. had been paid for probate duty and legacy
duty on personal property ; and the House ought
not to forget, that when the probate duty and the
legacy duty were first proposed by Mr. Pitt, he in-
tended that both kinds of property should be equally
-übject to it. The Bill to that effect had been brought
in, and had been carried through that House
after immense opposition. It had been carried
on the third reading by the casting vote of the Speaker,
and had afterwards been dropped as a peace-offering to
the country gentlemen, and since -that time no Minister
had brought it forward. He (Mr. Ward) was sorry to
find that even the Right Hon. Baronet did not consider
himself powerful enough to propose it. He (Mr. Ward)
had heard nothing of a proposal for the extension of the
probate duty and the legacy duty to real property
in the Right Hon. Gentleman's statement of Friday.
Their exemptions from smaller duties were innumerable.
The farmer paid no duty on the insurance of his stock ;
every other species of propertypaid a duty on insurace.
There was no window tax paid on farms under
200/, and there were none upon dairy win-
dows. -Upon a recent decision of the Judges he found
.the houses occupied by bailiffs were exempt. He (Mr.
Ward) had paid window duty for the house occupied
by his bailiff last. year, but he should do so no
more ; so that he should gain something from his re-
searches on this question, whether the country did or no.
(The Hon. Gentleman here read the decision of the
Judges in the case of Lord Middleton's bailiff, to the effect
that houses occupied by farm bailiffs were exempt from win-
dow duty. Thee there was an exemption from tolls, for
lime, manure, and agricultural implements ; there were no
drainage tolls, and there, was no duty on -shepherd dogs.
a
There were, in short, thousand things in which the
fact of a man being a farmer exempted him from duties
which he would otherwise have to pay. From
examining the cases of - dispute respecting as-
sessed taxes which had come before the Judges,
he found that not only had the house of a bailiff been
ruled to be exempt, but a house occupied by a brick-
maker, who was also a farmer, paid no duty. As a brick-
maker he paid duty, but as a farmer he was exempt,
and his exemption as a farmer covered his
liability as a brickmaker. The same decision was given
in the case of a wheelwright, a land-surveyor, and a cattle-
jobber, who, king also fanners, were exempted. Amongst
a number of letters which he had received on
the subject of his motion was one from a person in busi-
ness near Edinburgh. He said he was living at a little
distance from Edinburgh. He occupied a house to which
there were ten windows, and these were assessed at 1/. 10s.
His neighbour, who had a house with fifteen windows,
for which, together with land, he paid a rent of 1901.,
paid no duty. Again, for every 100/. he insured on
his stock in trade, he paid a duty of three shillings to
the Government. His neighbour being a farmer,
was a privileged man ; he paid no duty. Again, he was
assessed for his saddle horse 1/. 11s. 6d. His fortunate
neighbour paid no duty. If his friend wished to have a
public sale of his stock, he could do so without a license ;
whilst he himself must employ an auctioneer, or take out a
license, and upon every article sold he was liable to pay a
duty of 5 per cent. He did not make these remarks for the
purpose of instituting an invidious comparison between
the farmers and the other classes of society; who were a
meritorious class of persons, and deserved every
encouragement.; but he could not see why there
should be this distinction, why, if the principle were a
good one, it should not be extended to the various
branches of trade and manufactures.-(Hear.) At all
events, those who enjoyed these exemptions had no
right to complain of peculiar burdens. It was very
easy to call everything a peculiar burden.-(Hear,
hear, hear.) He had no doubt that before another
year had expired, they would hear that the income-
tax was a very peculiar burden on the farming interest.
-(Laughter.) Now he would call the attention of the
House to the amount of taxes upon the farming interest.
The local taxation was 4,336,0001. ; the general tax-
ation was 1,812,000/. ; 'making a total of upwards
of 6,000,000/. Deduct 2,000,000 L, at least, for pro-
bate , duty and legacy duty, and 500,000 L for all
minor exemptions, and 4,149,0001., was the total local
and general taxation payable upon land with a rental of
130,500,000L-(Hear, hear.) He had taken some
pains to obtain an account of some assessments
paid in London,- and at a short distance
from it. He found a farm which paid a rent of 323/.
The poor rates upon that farm were 691. ; the sur-
veyor s rate was 17/. 3s. ; the Church-rates, 4/. ss. •
making a total of 951., without the land-tax, which was 23i.
Now with respect to property in London. In the parish
of St. James's a house, for which 200/. rent was paid, was
subject to a yearly charge of 17/. Bs. for local taxa-
tion. In Piccadilly, in the same parish, where
the rent of a house amounted to 130/., the
whole of the taxes came to 11/. 17s. 9d.
He took a house in the City, the locality was Bishops-
gate-street, and the rent was 1201. The poor rate
was 121. 10s. ; Church-rates, 71. 10s. although
the occupiers were Dissenters ; Police-rates, 21. 10s. ;
Assessed taxes, 12/. 10s. ; Consolidated rate and
clearing rates, 2/. 10s.; Sewer rates, 3/., making a total
of 42/. 10s. upon a house in London, while the
rental was
Now, with this fact, how could
they talk
the peculiar burdens which are
felt on land, and ask for more compensation than Bs. of
duty a quarter on foreign corn ? He did not see that
there was a difference between these various
olf2o/ t.
species of property ; and he did not see how claims
could arise upon one species of property that was
not equally applicable to other species of property. He
could not see on what groundi they were to compen-
sate one class at the expense of another, and
that compensation to be given by a tax upon food.
This was the simple ground brought forward in that
speech, from which he had so largely quoted, entitling
the, and of this country to a large-the word used was
more--protection than would be given at an Bs. duty, as
proposed by the Noble Lord, the Member for London.
The effect of a duty was not to be calculated from the
price raised upon foreign wheat imported, •but what
was the price of the whole amount of corn
consumed in this country. It was in point of fact the
rise in prices on all food. If twenty millions of quarters
of wheat were consumed at a duty of Bs., that duty would
produce eight millions, and if at 4s. four millions.
which was enough to cover the whole of the burdens
which he could discover affected the landed interest.
Fourteen or fifteen shillings duty, which was
what the Right Hononourable Baronet contem-
plated to be the average, supposing the corn
came in at 12s. to 165., that would add 15 millions to
the price of corn consumed. This, too, was a tax for
the benefit of the landlords ; for the public re-
ceived but a fraction of it. This had
bean denounced by many of our public servants. He
could riot quote better names than Hume, M•Gregor,
and others, who were all unanimous in opinion, as to
the effect of any duty being imposed on foreign corn.
A Committee was but a preliminary step to any legis-
lation upon the subject of the Corn-laws. He
might be told that the present was a matter,
of mere political economy-of mere opinion-and :ha: it
did not admit of being sifted by a Committee of
that House.-(Hear.) But they had Committees
upon subjects very analogous in their nature ;
they had Committees upon the Import Duties last year ;
he had found a very high authority for the motion which
he had submitted to the House ; and which showed that it
would be likely to be attended with the most useful
practical effects, The authority in qnestion was that
of the Right Hon. Baronet himself (Sir Robert Peel.)
He found that in the year 1830, upon the motion of
Lord Chandos, the Right Hon. Baronet recommended
a Committee very similar to that which'he (Mr. Ward)
then proposed to the House. The Right lion.
Baronet on that oseasion complimented Lord
Althorp on his determination to discontinne
the charges upon the horses of farmers, and other bur-
dens which pressed upon agriculturists. The Right
Honourable Baronet added that "he wished the Noble
Lord would consent to appoint a Committee of intelligent
Members of the House to consider the whole question
of those taxes which bore directly or indirectly upon agri-.
culturists ; and to inquire whether the whole system of
local taxation, including the costs of criminal''
That
pro-
secutions, county rates, &c. were fairly appropri himi ate
(11
was a passage which very much confirmed
Ward) in the belief that the Committee he now
pro-
posed might produce great benefit to the country.
Honourable Baronet
-(Hear, hear.) The Right
the
agriculturists there asked for an inquiry in favour of
w asked for an
agriculturists ; and he (Mr. Ward) no
inquiry in favour of the other classes of the. community.
then distressed-the other
The agriculturists were
classes were now suffering. He only wanted to arrive
at the truth ; he wanted something tangible-something
which could form a safe basis for legislation. He did
not like to see a suspicion spring up in the country ;
its preponderancein that House;
that one class, owing to
was favoured at the expense of every other. Let them
appoint a Committee of intelligent Members of that
House, and they would thus, in any future discussion, be
enabled to point out the peculiar burdens which pressed
upon agriculture, while the country, on discovering their
claims to protection, would be ready to acknowledge
their justice. With these views, he had certainly felt
justified in moving for a Committee before any further
progress was made in the discussion on the Corn-laws.
He felt his own inability to deal with it, as it involved
many matters of detail which were always unpalatable
to the House. But he did most earnestly beg the Right
Honourable Baronet to promise to. grant them this
Committee, for, if he did, he was perfectly satisfied,
should it be fairly and impartially appointed, that it
would lead to very useful and satisfactory results. His
own opinion was, that there were no peculiar burdens on
land-(Hear, hear)-except what were fair charges, in
proportion to its value as property. When it was re-
membered that it had been stated frequently that the
land exceeded in value all the other property of the
kingdom, it was naturally to be expected that there
shouldbe some charges on it more than on other pro-

si hes fell upon the landlord in countries where there Wore;
tablished Church, and was a great discouragement to To
ture. But the Hon. Gentleman would say there natute
considerable alteration in the tithes as they were cods,. It
The Right Hon. Varonet then read an extract from
cardo, which stated the opinion of the writer, that the to
were a great burden on the land, and justified a dutien7`bly
shillings. This was the opinion of Mr. Ricardo- Hebat tlO
entirely wrong, and the Hon. Gentleman right, ~ 100,
differed from the Hon. Gentleman. hat there
It. Peeot#
say, on the part of the landed interest, that there was nes Paths.,
upon him to resist that inquiry, as the result would be dot
vourable. But he could assure the Hon. Gentlemanlas 10;
that inquiry took place it would occu rather more u_s; ie,
days. The authority of the Hon. Gentleman was greidell
without disrespect to the Hon. Gentleman, there vsrt,osset
equally great.—( Laughter. ) To what extent the
irutil Ise
imposed upon land must be determined rather by ge
_!teis tY
toning, than taking the entire charge. Another hurusee Y,
Hon. Gentleman had referred to was the poor-rate
_7Ol
stated that this burden fell equally upon the trades„„w thiJ!
landlord, but the Hon. Gentlemen must rernera'"opel
the recent alteration took those rates from the (efesrsell
men, and they were entirely on the land.-ised?
Of late years, however, there had been a more equar.rateefi:
apportionment, but if he looked to the amount of Psne,es le ,
must say that a very large proportion of the amount At test F
upon land. When he looked to the returns he innsed 0,
1826 the proportion of rates upon lands, houses, .":188,001s
species of property was, 4,523,000/. upon land; I, fsetenel
upon dwelling. houses ; and 255,0001. upon oill.gcl Dot er
and other species of property of that sort. He di. e boil
those returns as an accurate statement of the relative reern
upon the different species of property to which v fill
Then again there was the malt-tax—that was ley
barley alone, the produce of the land, not less than 101 it 01
annually. If such a sum was levied from one articjesseof
very difficult to say what amount of restriction there esee
,
land, for if a restrictive duty was imposed upon
the land, it was just as great a restriction as if t d Isr
upon the land itself; and after all the lengthened 0;04
discussions of that Committee it would remain hies (el
induced Ii 'r These were the gen'ral impressions which
„t ersreel
R. Peel) to submit to the House that the present
question was, whether he should postpone the Crirthe fit
indefinitely. The expression made use of IV, 007
Member (Mr. Ward) who brought forward tuescrets„it
that it might be a very " tedious business -Qoesolt
" Hear, hear")—so tit might be ave " tedious % (Sir
se
the egrrippl
the Hon. Gentleman's motion was adopted, but e „or
Peel) would ask the House to consider what the countrJitiot°o
think of him, if he said £hat he would acquiesce ineateitligei
which would postpone the measure which he had suspese.es
the House, merely because a very plausible arguenenA,ol,ro
in its favour by the Hon. Gentleman opposite.---('-„sselwei
ironical cheers from the Opposition.) Would it ""atereo.,s
he should postpone the Corn-law Bill—leave the ,l hive,
landlords and of tenants, and of men who dello re,
from corn—in a state of uncertainty, until eli;
nourable Gentleman opposite should, in three test foe
have his motion brought to a determination.
ostslen"
reasons, he (Sir Robert Peel) should give his tusejesre.)l
--
opposition to the motion of the Hon. Gentleman i
Mr. STRUTT said there was a great deal of inestioe di t
in the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet. The tee it I,iy
not whether tithe was a burden on land, but whe".ee
burthen on landholders.—(Cheers and counter ebeere
eis e ,
pr:o
Right Hon. Baronet must have greatly changed :soliteLei
within the last one or two ye.rs, for it appears teat cesevir
ago he entertained the opinion that those rates werensoj,
upon land. On the 24th of July, 1840, the Right Or'ett
rones delivered a speech in which he stated that it o'4n
ingly unjust that Dissenters should be expected to el OW
rates, and why he should now turn round and say tii„a ll
ti,
ought to receive compensation for the burthens in'l7ooSis 00
them, by taxing other persons for them, was most in., it pi
From all that was said upon the subject this eves' theta i
most satisfactorily proved to the House, that hithertoeoise or
been no sufficient reasons shown to justify the esev „We
landowners and the imposition of burdens upon othlesesetp
the people of the country. The burthens in ottilA
poor-rates were increased generally in proportioner. etTp
increase of population, and it seemed to him (Araey 9
most unjust that the landlords should now hoe, they
upon Parliament for redress, upon the grounds ot. a 0 il
great burdens upon land. The burdens to which isl3torieter
subject had been imposed for many successive ernbeee:o
could be shown that all the old feudal burdens had
antieSit
witted for a specific tax. So that even taking an
view of the matter (which, however, he did not then es dot
take), and even in the whole course of the debt!, tetiet
House he had never heard any which appeared to im-stikee
been so very decidedly on one side of the quests that WA,
upon his (the Opposition) side, as the debate 6f t ore, 'l,O
(Laughter and ironical cheers)—he was quite
es4b°,
events, that a case had been made for inquiry, alth „isit,:joe)
it was not easy to satisfy Hon. Gentlemen on the °Pls- 0 fr
of the House.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) It was be
that his Hon. Friend's motion was too minute. .4.'"e "dal
pealed to the House, whether, if it was shaped in be sag
way, in order to meet that objection, it would not Idler:01
terms of it were so vague and uncertain that it eon's boo ty
brought to a conclusion. Toe Right Hon. Baronet. Crolp
something like that even as the motion stood at present ft to
whole he would give his most hearty and cordial OW
vopt
motion of his Hon. Friend.
Mr. CORDeSN begged leave to remind the liniheel4
that immediately after the Queen's Speech had heel/light 0014
he had taken the earliest opportunity to ask the „lees 0
Baronet to state to the House what the special
.htl'i. gir,4o6
to which her Majesty's Speech referred—the ant We to add,
the Right Hon. Baronet was, that the proper tiraeoteet,e,
that inquiry was in his speech in the debate ; the Visteoti
Baronet delivered his speech and did not define tsest el
burdens were—he was then again asked to stateeeesob°ol
were, and he declined to do so. Then the Hon. nof r:;:o
Sheffield brought forward his motion, and instee.'„ estire4
censured by the opposite party for doing so, as ,"- est fet4
the Hon. Gentleman ought to have their thasn's'peieel
them an opportunity of answering those inquiries . gene
reasonably expected they should answer. The 1116
(Mr. Ward) gave notice of his motion for Thu e url,4
that day there were 30 or 40 Gentlemen on this (site
sition) side of the House, but the benches oPPese
vacant—the Members on that side of the House wet.' Ite'pei
a, VI .
away—(Laughter)—because he (Mr. Cobden) heareter°,,y
came down to the House at four o'clock, that it was "-es) ribo
the motion of his Hon. Friend was (in vulgar parlan,o
" burked "—he had observed that Hon. Gentler-405i
were constantly at their devotions in that House—(l's
—were on that occasion absent—even the Hon. Bersteerfr
Member for Oxford, was nit at prayers on that e ,s AS
( Question, questine)—and now that the Hon. Gentled re,
Ward) had brought his motion forward to-eighteane shire
there was a House, it seemed they were not to ilteeifetovi
sion ; there was some reason or other why the IO ,if
Baronet would not entertain the question—some fibetievp
C° to have been introduced long ago, but he (Mr. or 2
peeled to the Right Hon. Baronet and the countge Int
after what had taken place, it should be said that As 01001
were anxious for the passing of the Corn-law Bill* per!' elf
his constituents were concerned, he could say they mope
opposed to it. He had then a resolution which wore other
agreed to at a public meeting held at Stockport t" Isagb
set/
in the open air, with the Mayor in the chair--( 'oprtY
calling upon him to give his most decided tell 10
to the measure.—(Hear, Hear.) He won' 0 pee Right Hon. Baronet and Honourable Gentle ,
10,
•--
opposite side of the House, that he had come there to
be ei,s
gee
the wishes and interests of his constituents, and thath the:Ye,
mean to bow to the behests of the majority wince frev,
Hon. Baronet might command.—(" Hear, hear,s teo
Robert Peel.) The principal object to-night but its eaTes°
that there were no special burdens upon land, hut tee t 1
shown that they (the landed proprietors) were exe orby
,heri
taxes, and that they were to be exclusively bornsae 09
classes. He could state the opinion of Frenchmer:,‘ 0,10,
for that.—(" Oh, oh," arid " Question, queetion•eitesso'b,
heard how Learned Gentlemen on the opposite side; toboosi
read similar opinions.—( Hear, hear.) The tales t s 0
land was now subject have been borne by it for „r, ?
}ears. He would state what the taxes were Ifrt)dieseetio,
the Conquest, when the whole of the taxes were
s„ titatee,
land. The Hon. Gentleman then went on to shn"sess ,Iv
series of years the proportionate amount of tasc'eoese ' tiOtti
fourths of the entire of the revenues of the land---"e La ,
reign of Anne, one-fourth—to the reign of George re NIP
fifth—George 11., one-sixth—for thirty years of ,tg 008. V,
George 111., one-seventh—from 1793 down to I S'l':,,,Otb,s6
—and from that time down to the present, one twenty;, by
whole revenue was derived from the laed.--(11, e the tiS,
Then there is the land tax which had its origin 'ne tee til'
services—the landowners were exempted, and the" 4, il_sAoo
4s. was put on instead—the tax levied first was sie-14
pound of the full year's value—it was regularly la seeteu,eo
tax paid upon that valuation, but it was never re-olualf-otg
1692 ; that was not the system allowed in the
....osslarl
taxes—the taxes paid on windows for instanceZe lend
according to the valuation of 20 years ag.se nee °pe
prietors had been exempted from their services uYtheir
sie
made by them with the Sovereign to give ur osertnotil;
services for that tax, but they retained their
services, which as Lingard said, was a dishonour t°Paiel°l
The irre!ularitiee of taxation were arguments agastlfied,
tire..—( Hear.) No taxation ought to be levied uile of
the pressure were unequal, it was a proof that GeatseOf
either to be abolished or reassessed. The 1-On'ised, ee,
then showed that in several of the counties of Bog ,t 00.0
the land tax of 1815, as a guide of taxation, was n?:sess 0
s di
The highest tax was levied in Bedfordshire, when it tigli;
and the lowest was levied in Cumberland, when,
of
PAd. 'I he parishes showed the same inequalitYo ot to.. of
In some it was Is. tid. and in others it did not Innvisubst I‘IX
than the one-tenth of a penny.—( Hear, hear.) ad toreth.el. r
reason of that ? It was because some countiee 3.,,, 001. fY
become rich and populous • but he would
fro
teeeto that
a reason why the others should' be exempt I;ope 000;
amuuut of taxation ? What said Adam stste,,,elti,
subject ? He said that " the subjects of every t tee "siter;
support the government as nearly as possible, ibru john fore,i
W 53 a violation of that just principle and Ar ' e be gtlit
Chairman of the Board of Stamps, in his evidenicB36, ,
dot;{
committee of the House of Commons, in APri!: seueherae,,;s
the collection of the tax as three or four times as stt Di': tee
sum raised and paid into the Exchequer-essebieett°,,.os
Whatever degree of attention may be paid to the„,sen4 serreo'o4
House, it would be well discussed out of it. They 0.4
the eve of new taxation, and the budget of the 0 .r no'
of the' r 9.0.
would call the middle classes to a proper sense Teel Fos
duty, though it had no other good effect• hoolcee_ bg
s . lA,
have fiscal discussions amongst the clays ofak were theii
And when they discovered that the profits of st
son
rogue
int°rosirs
assessed, and that the inquisitors were to be ssee erogbeter
houses, they would be inclined to inquire into the bentlises's
the rentals of Hon. Gentlemen opposite. 0°1301.---itatil,
were scarcely aware of the powers of the Reformilat seil,eol2,
hear.) They scarcely knew the powers Oven bY.! to trit;ooF
middle classes, because they were never eallet!.(Ted ebef_epte.
but now that their pockets are touched he bVer, unjust we/
exhibit sufficient spirit to resist those who uph ui t bad lee be
down( Hear, hea-.) If the Right
Bar
tnhee PearV
and proposed a preperty tax to relieve
utmost elset"Ai
s of toes sit
nOt.,
(( Allier.
a• r , Cobden)
hear) b
uwouldt,
when
h loine n
finding
nhdi
imn g tiohethmeean .
.11
ing classes were exhausted, and that they coulded
to apptsops
more taxation, the Right Hon. Baronet proposed those gripe!,,
wouldscrew tolotohke
umairdrdolwelyciluatsosest,hehemb,emlioepvoeldy thatot ~_r
7:14 ad?),
kindred monopoly of sugar.—( Hear.) They " :oe trades
he meant to get additional taxation. . of th°
.10.,
dification
of the Right Hon. Baronet the means of
Hi necarie..ajs s of; e_
itnitiett
heard anything better said ef the mo
Hon. Gentleman that it was not quite se bad
the 21'a el°
d that pes
whichse t; system.—( .H—o(u. Question,
Gentlemen que s toilopno.
s)iteHeadvthocoantgeht be lath
201:
• • because if the Corn-law was to, (elre leg
susplctous,
its repeal ought to be advocated by his Gott
o'e old
den's) side of the House, and not by the
alsieh , a
crd
opposite. There was nothing in the law c
elietess ed
reconcile the country to it. So far as he was a (It: oce reseal
t' eso
sve cis
the feelings of the manufacturing classes, they did test
the measure of the Right Hon. Gentleman .- the ' silo
restore them to prosperity, and nntil he put corn int_:' he reo`tiie
of persons generally, and not confined it to a fe_rve reefer
not reconcile the feelings of the people to it, °r on
county contented.—(Cheers.) per,' oe
Lord WORSLEY said that having opposed- ny.osiest
tiisl
of the Corn-laws, he felt it to be lis duty to eeb;"estes eei
motion of his Hon. Friend.—(Hear hear ) If it 11°est
press peculiarly on any clans, 'he thought to Awe
be only fair that means might be take° coup to
the taxation more evenly throughout the. 00 Os ,
But it appeared to him that the object of the motion I

consequesce. But if land here was taxed at the same rate as
in other countries it should have to pay at least 30,000,000/. In
Switzerland they were taxed at one half of the expenses of the
State. In Egypt the tax upon land fluctuated at from Bto 14
per cent. upon the value of the land. So f .r, therefore, from
land being subject in this country to any peculiar hardship, all
the evidence went to show that the history of the legislation of
this country was a history of exemption from burdens.—( Hear.)
It was but natural that the landed proprietors in this country
should have turned the power they possessed to their own
benefit. He could hardly blame them for it—it was the course
of human nature. All that was now asked was an inquiry into
the burdens which pressed in this country upon agriculture,
and to which such constant reference had of late been made.
Mr. SCARLETT was much surprised at the motion of the
Hon. Gentleman apposite, which he must oppose, because he
did believe that the land was subject to peculiar burdens,
though the subject was an obscure one. It is the
opinion of the French economists that the land
ultimately paid all the taxes. The landlord being the largest
proprietor was the greatest consumer of luxuries, and conse-
quently the taxes on luxuries fell on him; and this view was
not the result of his own genius, but was derived from Adam
Smith's chapter "On Revenue."—(Laughter. ) If the House
went into Committee it would appear that the landowners bore
all the burdens of the State.—( Laughter. ) As the price of
corn regulated the price of all other commodities, if they re-
duced the price of it by one-tenth, they would reduce the
income of the country by one-testtih.
Mr. CHILDERS—There was a great distinction, of
which they should not lose sight, between land and
agriculture. It would be seen that every country in the
world had borne burdens on land heaviee than England had
done. We raised an immense revenne, it was true, but
the land paid comparatively a very small portion of it.
He could not discover anything but the land-tax, which fell
exclusively on the land, and that amounted to but 1,400,000/.,
or abut one-fortieth of the whole revenue of the nation,
while he believed the burdens on land were not greater than
in other countries. In Holland it was not thought necessary
to have protective duties on the importation of corn on ac-
count of the peculiar taxes on the land, and yet, though the
importation into Rotterdam and Ostend was nearly free, the
price was generally from 50s. to 555. They must distinguish
between what were burdens on land and what were taxes on
agriculture. Thus tithes levied in kind he believed to be a tax
on agriculture. Under the old Poor-law, also, the system of
labour rates, and of rour.dsmen, was a burden upon the
farmer, but, by the Tithe Commutation Act, and by the New
Poor-law Act, those burdens had been removed. The
burden that at present pressed the most severely on the
farmer was, in his (Mr. Childers) opinion, the Corn-law itself.
The Corn-law inflicted the greatest injury on the agricultu-
rist, for, by holding out to him the temptation of an increased
price, it induced him to crop his land improperly. If the
Corn-laws were abolished, he doubted not but that agriculture
in England would soon be equal to what it was in Scotland ;
and .that the farmers, by adopting improved systems, would
soon be able to defy foreign competition.—(Cheers.)
Mr. G. PALMER would not accuse the manufacturing
interest of being actuated by any desire to injure the agricul-
tural interest; but, on the other hand, he could not admit that
the landed proprietors had any wish to starve the manufac-
turers. The two interests were mutually dependent upon
each other, and whatever injured the one must eventually in-
jure the other. The manufacturer was merely a bird of pas-
sage—was here to-day and may be in Belgium to-morrow. lle
should not be very far from the truth if he was to say that some
manufacturers had embarked their capital in Belgium. He did
not mean to say that they had no right to do so. They had a
perfect right if the country permitted it. He would appeal to
the manufacturers on the other side of the House, if a bale of
cotton could not be purchased in Liverpool on a Monday morn-
ing and sent to Manchester, brought back to Liverpool, and
shipped on the Saturday night? Could the agriculturist plough
his land, and sow his corn, and reap it in that time ?—( Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Member for Salford (Mr. Brotherton) had
stated that the manufacturer used to get Is. 9id. in the pound
of cotton after all the expenses were paid, and that now he could
riot expect to get more than 6i.d. Now he (Mr. Palmer) would
like to know what he would say to the agriculturalits if he
expected even a profit of bid. upon 51/2d., the price of a
pound of cotton. Cotton was purchased by the mann-
nufacturer at sd. a pound, and if he got 63/4d. upon that he
had no reason to complain. But there were other advantages.
Now he (Mr. Palmer) would like to know how many times in
a year of full employ the manufacturer turned his capital. He
should say from seven to eight times a year, and oftener if there
was a demand for goods. He did not merely turn his capital,
but he worked by means of bills, a system carried on for the
last twenty years by which, in the course of a week or ten
days after his original purchase, he could go again into the mar-
ket, and purchase a fresh supply of cotton. Could the agricul-
turist do this? He (Mr. Palmer) would like to know how he
could manage to work up his capitalmore than once a year, and
that a real and not a fictitious one. If he got twenty or thirty
per cent., he thought himself well off. The manufacturers of
this country were like a great snowball placed in the middle of
a large common. It was not with a view to promote individual
interest, but it was from a conviction that the whole interest of
the country, the existence of the security of the country, of pro •
perty and credit, every thing depended on the produce of the
soil; in fact, it was that which Almighty God had given to us to
support life, and this was the real and only capital they had to look
up to. He sincerely wished that, before this great measure
had been proposed, there had been a committee appointed to
inquire into not only what burdens were on one interest or the
other, but what burdens were existing which required protection
against foreign capital. Not that he would withhold the hand
of good fellowship from his neighbour. Far from it, he would
encourage foreign trade, but he would never sacrifice home
property to any foreign trade whatever. If they were but true
to themselves, no power on earth could injure them. What
was the case of the administration of Mr. Pitt ? Did he not
raise the interest of millions of the country. Did the country
not thrive under it—was not every individual at the end of the
war in a state of prosperity ? The Right Hon. Baronet would
find in levying his tax that there is a great fa ling off in the
wealth of the inhabitants. But he hoped the Right Hon.
Baronet would succeed in his measure. He (Mr. Palmer) had
not the slightest objection to the tax, and it would have his
hearty support,lbut he would not attempt to dress his fish before
he caught it.
Sir R. PEEL said he wished to call the attention of the
House biiefly to the time at which, and the circumstances
under which, the motion of the Hon. Gentleman was made, he
believed upon the fourteenth time that he had occupied this
House—(Loud cheers)—in the discussion of the Corn-laws.—
( Hear, hear.) And as yet they were not allowed to go into
Committee upon it. Some Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite
side of the House who differed from the till, who objected to
the principles and details of the Bill, yet who seeing the large
majority by which that Bill had been carried—considering the
sense of the House had been fully and fairly expressed—con-
sidering that the trade of this country, and especially the trade
in corn —( Hear, hear)—was so embarrassed on account of the
delay—seeing that that Bill was admitted to be a great improve-
ment on the present law—(Cheers)—by many opposed to it—
seeing that they admitted that it was a mitigation of the exist-
ing evils, arising from the present state of the law, have come
to the conclusion, perfectly justifiable in my opinion, that the
the sooner the question was settled the better.—(" Hear,
hear," and Cheers.) The question, in his opinion, for them
to consider was whether or not there was a prospect of over-
ruling the sense of a majority of that House. If there was
not, then they ought not further to protract discussion. Many
Hon. Gentlemen having had the whole of last Session to con-
sider the propriety of this motion—knowing that the Corn-
laws were under discussion—foreseeing that they would be un-
der discussion, had full opportunity of appointing a Committee
in the last Session. But the Hon. Gentleman permitted them
to have thirteen nights of debate, one on the motion for the
Bill, three on the motion of the Noble Lord for a fixed duty
instead of a graduated scale, five nights debate on a subject
identical with it, viz. an absolute repeal, four other nights since
that, making altogether thirteen nights ; and on the fourteenth
the Hon. Gentleman proposed that the whole of the Corn-law
Bill should be suspended until a Committee shall have made
its report. Now what he (Sir R. Peel) called upon the Hon-
Gentleman to do was in fairness to adhere to his own notice.
The object J this notice was not to mislead.—( Loud cheers
and laughter.) If the object of it was to instruct the
House and inform them what was the nature of the motion
which "ought to be brought forward the Hon. Gentleman would
not have had occasion to ransack musty speeches or looking
for old debates in 18:34, but, after thirteen nights of debate,
when the country was expecting the House would, at last, de-
cide what was to be the law regulating the importation of corn,
the Hon. Gentleman came down and occupied their time, not
with reference to the existing debate, but resuscitating old
speeches of what the Duke of Buckingham had said, and what
he ( Sir R. Peel) had said in 1834, and to satisfy the impatience
of the country by reference to the proceedings of six or seven
years ago. But he (Sir R. Peel) asked the Hon. Gentleman
who had given so much time and attention, at last to make up
his mind what his motion would be.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.)
He ( Sir R. Peel) came down that night, presuming that the
Hon. Gentleman would have given so much attention to the
subject that he would have, at least, adhered to the notice he
had given—a perfectly legitimate notice, which ran thus :
" On the motion that the Speaker do leave Chair, to go into
Committee on Corn Importation Bill, to move that it is
inexpedient to impose any duty upon the importation
of foreign corn, until the House shall have inquired whether
there are any special burdens peculiarly affecting the landed
interest of this country, or any special exemption enjoyed by
that interest, and shall have ascertained their nature and ex-
tent." He (Sir R. Peel) asked the Hon. Gentleman to stand
by his own notice. He asked the Hon. Gentleman to ask for
leave to withdraw the motion, and adhere to his own notice..—
( Hear, hear.) Let him (Sir R. Peel) fairly understand whe-
ther the House was then to pass that Corn-law Bill, and pro-
ceed to its completion by that House, or whether or no it should
be pos'poned indefinitely, until the Hon. Gentleman had
formed his Committee. He (Sir R. Peel) asked the Noble
Lord (Lord .I. Russell) who sat near the Hon. Gentleman,
whether it was not consistent with the usage of Parliament,
that he (Sir R. Peel) should ask for the notice being adhered
to? When a notice was brought forward by the Hon. Gentle-
man for a Committee, it was competent to him to renew that
notice, but the Hon. Gentleman had expressly joined issue
with him (Sir 11. Peel) as to whether they should go into Com-
mittee, or whether he should—perfectly fairly and legiti-
mately, he admitted—take the sense of the House
on this question, that a Committee should be appointed to in.
quire. Now, consistently and fairly to bring forward that mo-
tion, he had ample time, considering the discussion; but it
was perfectly unusual for an Hon. Gentleman to give notice,
and not to say one single word to those opposed to him of his
intention to change that notice, and to make a whole speech,
and then at the close of it to bring about a motion by with-
drawing that motion of which he had himself given notice.
Whether this was fitting or not he'(Sir Robert Peel) wonld not
consent to the supension of the Corn-law Bill, until such a
Committee should have been appointed, and made its report.
Putting that Report altogether out of consideration whether or
not it
.was fit to susFend that bill, they might depend they
would not carry public feeling with them. ''hey knew in the
last Session that he (Sir R. Peel) never attacked the Noble
Lord with what amount of burdens there were; but what he
said was, that the Noble Lord would labour under great difficulty
when he proposed his Bs. duty to cover the burden on land:
Ile (Sir R. Peel) said that the objection would equally apply
to any protection, for if they were called upon to show the
burthens, the objection wouid apply to a fixed duty. He dSir
R. Peel) rested his proposition upon a combination of interest.
He stated, in the first ilace, that in consideration of that pro-
tection, they must look to the 150 years that capital had been
invested under a system of protection to agricultural produce.
He (Sir R. Peel) stated, that nothing could be more unwise
than to risk disturbing new interest by withdrawing that pro-
tection rapidly, without full consideration, and under which
capital had been applied to the cultivation of land. He ( Sir
R. Peel) stated, that any person was perfectly right to differ
from him. He stated, as another reason, it gave protection
whet e it was necessary to the cultivation of the soil, and the
growth of domestic pi oduce, and to prevent dependence upon
foreign countries. lie (Sir R. Peel) stated, that it was neces-
sary that protection should exist as an insurance against
any possible calamity. He (Sir Robert Peel) had
stated, that there were especially peculiar
burdens
affecting land, as compared to other great interest.
The Hon. Gentleman ridiculed the notion of tithes being a
burden. He wondered how any one could be absurd enough
to suppose that tithes were a burden on land. The Hon.
Gentleman was a great authority, but there were others equal
to him, who entertained a different opinion. They wrote at a.
time comparatively barbarous. _(Laughter and cheers.) lie
would mention Adam Smith. What Adam Smith said was,
that taxes upon the produce of land were really taxes upon
rent, that they were paid by the landlord, and were considered
as a land tax. The Right Honourable Baronet then read
an extract from Adam Smith, which stated that the