Star.
London, England, 1830-03-16 00:00:00

office in this country as head-quarters; to give to that
office the whole and sole control of the department; and,
as a necessary purpose towards the improvement of the
revenue, to make the consolidation apply to the assimi-
lating the prices of stamps upon the same articles in all I
parts of the United Kingdom. This measure, though
not intended as such, will act in augmentation of the tax,
and consequently produce an increase of revenue; be-
sides that it will introduce a desirable uniformity into
this department; for at present the duties paid upon
articles which affect the property of the country is, in
Ireland, in some respects, materially different from
this country—a distinction which I confess myself Ido
not think defensible. As a' necessary: consequence of
a consolidation of the collection of these duties must be
the assimilation of the charges, for it could not be borne
that under the same management of the same class of
stamps would be charged at one price in one part of the
United Kingdom, and at another in another, and it will
be therefore the great object of this measure to regulate
and consolidate the iwhole of the laws relating to stamps,
and with a view to the equalization of the tax upon them
throughout the United Kingdom. I should upon this
occasion estimate the increase which I expect to
accrue' from this head of revenue at 110,0001. but
upon that score, as I said before, I must refer the
Committeee to a future occasion for explanation. It will
be also, Sir, my duty to place in your hands a resolution
for the regulation of another trade, which will now claim
more consideration than it has done hitherto. It will re-
late to that of spirits ; upon which it is proposed, by this
resolution, to impose an additional duty—this being in-
tended to apply to spirits of all descriptions. (Loud
cheers.) The House cannot have forgotten the grounds
upon which these duties were originally reduced to the
amount at which they now are. Those grounds were,
mainly the prevention of smuggling. (Hear.) This the
remission of duties succeeded in accomplishing in a great
degree ; but, on the other hand, the cheapening spirits
acted most mischievously upon the morals and man-
ners of the people. (Hear, hear.) In Ireland, particu-
larly, the prevention of smuggling was a main reason for
lowering the duties ; another being to rescue the spirit
duties from the opprobrium which attached to them, as
well as to discourage illicit distillation in the great extent
to which it had been carried on. But, while these objects
were plain enough as the reasons for lowering the duties
on spirits, it is no less certain—and it is impossible
to read the Reports without perceiving it—that, though
the duties were so lowered, at first, as to morally ex-
tinguish smuggling ; yet, when that system was once
completely got under, it was the undoubted intention of
Parliament to raise the standard of duty as soon as it
could be done without danger of causing a return to
smuggling.—(Hear.) I have been thus particular in
mentioning these matters, because I am aware that, if we
lay on a serious augmentation to those duties, we may
run into the very evil which, from the first, we wanted
to provide against, and unknowingly revive smuggling. I
therefore do not propose upon this occasion, to add more
to the duty raid upon spirits in Ireland and Scotland than
2d a gallon, raising it from 2s 10d to 3s, a sum which
I am told by those best informed, will not be large enough
to encourage private distillation, or to revive smuggling
establishments which have been demolished, but yet will
operate so beneficially upon the produce of spirits in those
countries as to contract the consumption of the spirits (an
end desirable to be obtained), without prejudicing the re-
venue—(Cheers.) With respectto England, where the risk
and danger of illicit distillation are not so great, and where
there is therefore less to warn us off an increase of the spirit
duty, I shall propose an increase, less, however with a view
of deriving more revenue from it, than to guard against
the danger of any proceedings being adopted here, which
might tend to defeat our intentions in the other parts
of the United •Kingdom ; but that increase shall not be
larger in proportion than that of Ireland and Scotland.
Here I propbse to add one shilling a gallon to the spirit
duty, making that Bs. which was before 7s. This stan-
dard, I have been assured by those best informed upon
the subject, will not act as an encouragement to smug-
gling, and will at the same time, be beneficial to the

revenue. The amount Which I calculate I shall
gain by this addition to the spirit duties is 330,0001.
The reduction of the revenue by the abolition of the taxes
on Beer, Leather, and Cyder, will be less than one
million a wear, which will be met by the measures I
propose. Some hon. members may find this surplus
short of their wishes, and others may wish further re-
duction of taxation; but I apprehend that the surplus
will be found sufficient to guard against any unfa-
vourable consequences to the revenue from another de-
fective harvest, and that it will be sufficient to secure us
against.any circumstances of that kind, though I admit
that it is not more than we may consider desirable. In
the difficulties we labour under, it is my duty to recom-
mend parliament to make such arrangements as will, consi-
dering the distress of the country,. guard against future
e‘ils, while we remove that distress to the greatest extent
possible (hear.) 1 should be unwilling, therefore, to reconi-
mend any measures that the present circumstances of the

country would not justify, or which would diminish the two
millions of surplus which I consider necessary to repair any
mischiefs that may arise. gentlemen wil lbear in mind that
the 'surplus is not only desirable to reduce the National
Debt, but also to support public credit. It is necessary to
guard against public defalcation. In the circumstances
of the country it is also, I believe, necessary as a can.
tion, and as a guard against the greatest danger that
can befall us in g financial point of view—the danger of
borrowing under disadvantageous circumstances. There
is, however, something more than the revenue and the
expenditure of the present year to be looked at. It
must be obvious to the house, that in examining the ope-
ration of repealing them, they must !wok to the probable
.tdkct.of the reduction not only in the present year, but
also on the following year, 1831. The whole reduction if
3,400,000/. will only then come into effect. To
meet this or a great part of it, the house
has many resources on which it may con-
fidently rely. It may look to those other re-
sources, and rely on them with confidence to attain the
object of providing for the future deficiency. The poem,
by these resources, and by its exertions in maintaining
public credit, might employ that credit very advantage-
ously in the reduction of the interest of the National
Debt. In examining attentively the present state of
the country, looking to the state of the exchanges with
foreign countries, looking, too, to the great accumula-
tion of capital and to the diminished rate of interest in
the Public Markets for all public and private Securi-
ties, I cannot entertain a doubt that thi House has
the power effectually and conveniently to reduce that
part of the National Debt which now bears an inte-
rest of 4 per cent.—(Hear, hear!) It is, therefore,
my intention, as a result of an examination of thi
revenue, for the future to look for a part of nur riw
sources from a diminution in the rats of latereit. In a
few 'days I shall have the honour to propose to the HMIs
to fix a Aorta for giving notice on emus sari) day of
die terms on .whiob they would offer to do ,boidnis of
the ,
4 per Cent. Stock a Stott of lies annual veins. I w 1
not now enter rite details.wbiebtainiot he Valeigesi and

satisfactory, but I propose on an early day to in lug the
whole subject before the House. (Hear.) The country-
possesses resources which will, I trust, enable us kn.,
make very large reductions ; and I have such contideueel
in the result of the measure I now propose, and in the con-
sequence of other measures for a diminntion of expendi-
ture, which are in progress, that I do not anticipate any
embarrassment in those financial calculations from a fail-
ure in any part of our resources, or that we shall not be
able to make still further reductions hereafter. It may be
the fashion to say to the Government, reduce the ex-
penditure ; but I would say, that the industry of that
Government has been already. .exercised to the greatest
extent in making all practicable reductions ; and that,
looking at what they have done, and considering what
they have pledged themselves to do, it was but right to
be content for the present, and to wait the result of the
measures which are in progress ; for although the reduc-
tions already made in the amount of expenditure which
was available for that purpose have been great--and that
they are great, no man I think can this night venture to
look at the evidence of it before and deny; yet the
same active industry, and the same thorough and anx-
ious desire to alleviate the burthens of the people, and to
diminish all unnecessary expences, will still be continued
in exercise, and I have no doubt with great additional ad-
vantage to the country. It is not, however, to the re-
ductions that have already taken place, however exten-
sive, that I look for the approbation of the House and
the Country.—lt is to the various departments of the
Government, all exercised as they are in an examina-
tion of the minutest kind into the expenditure of every
branch of the public service—that I look for the moans
of still 4urther relieving the burtliens of taxation, for
we aro prepared to engage in an inquiry, indeed, I
may say, we are engaged in an examination em-
bracing every public department; and we propose in
conformity with the precedent . which has in one case
proved so beneficial—that respecting superannuations
—to confide the execution of that inquiry to Gentlemen
connected certainly in some degree with the Govern-
ment, but totally unconnected with the particular
departments to which these inquiries are to be extended,
with a view of ascertaining how far it may be possible to
make still further reductions. The House knows well the
benefit derived by the Government from an inquiry of that
kind which I have already alluded to; and this much I may
say, that we are thoroughly convinced of the necessity of
preparing to meet the deficiencies by every possible exertion,
and that we are determined to undertake no change, and to
propose no measure which we are not prepared to justify by
our conduct with respect to the expenditure. I kno* the
extent of the labour it imposes on the Government ; but I
also know that my Honourable Friends are determined to
spare no exertion to increase the resources which may be
applicable to a diminution of the expenditure. In the
same manner, and to the same extent, the. Government
propose to empower a Commission to deal with the whole
of the Colonial expenditure [hear, hear!]. The Go-
vernment are fully aware of the difficulties which lie
in the way of this determination. They know that it is not
easy to find men conversant with all the details of this most
extensive branch of the expenditure; I Ist it appears to them
that the task will be more efficiently performed by men ap-
pointed by a Government desirous of concealing no abuses,
and of producing by every practicable means additional re
sources for the service of the country. It is for these rea-
sons that the Government, relying on the beneficial results
which hive been generally produced from Commissions
of Inquiry, have determined to avail themselves of Commis-
sions with reference to these branches of expenditure. And
here I may perhaps be permitted to advert to a subject
which came under discussion on one of the evenings which
I had lately the misfortune to be absent from the House —I
allude to the subject of superannuation allowances, and for
my own part I can now have no hesitation in saying that a
regntation has been already made on the subject. I
remain of the opinion I have always professed on this
question, that whatever may be done with respect to ,
the superannuations already granted, or whatever may
be the extent of our right to meddle with those al-
lowances now, we are bound to look narrowly at the
method of granting them in future. I think, however,
that there will not be any disposition to charge the Ge-
vernmen.t with indolence or indifference on the subject.
It is needless to advert at present to the circumstances
' which have prevented the regulations from being carried
into effect much sooner. It will perhaps be sufficient
to mention, that by the terms of a Treasury Minute,
passed in the course of last summer, every person here-
, after accepting office under Government is required to
submit to an annual reduction according to the amount of
his salary, and which is to be forined into a fund out of
which the superannuation allowances are to be paid ; and
it will be my duty, in the course of a few days, to
bring in a Bill to authorise the appropriation of
the produce of that Fund, and to regulate the me-
thod by which it may be most beneficially managed
for the advantage of individuals and the relief
the public purse. If it should, at the time that
Ate Bill is introduced, appear advisable that a Com-
Wifttee be appointed to investigate the whole of the.
subject, and to inquire into the necessity of going.
even farther into other brances of the public service
'dos thee Government have already proposed, I have no
limitation in saying that I shall feel it my duty to move
fir that Committee, and to go into any inquiry it may
fecbmtnend, with a view to ascertain to what extent it
may be right to go, keeping in mind what is just to the
public servant, and what is just with regard to the Pu -
4 (hear, hear.) With respect, however, to the.sa-
peannuation allowances of the public servants in the.
dill departments, I have no doubt that the precisions of
=ill will be found effectual and sitisfectery. The
gas to this subject, which is somewhat beside the
*ashen before the Committee, have dnitvn me
tos observations I was applying to the public el!.
penditure. I have already said that I placed . a
reliance on the economy of the govern.;
!tent as a method' of supplying any deficie
artfich might arise (roil the alteration of taFetine7.
Bat there is one other bonne on which I rely with groat
eenfidince, and which I think well calculated to supply
a r considerable proportion of any probable 'or in:
,rable deficiency of revenue—l mean the augnsen-
8641niwhich must necessarily take .piece in all the re/-
branches of taxation, by a repeal of those taken
Mich have pressed on particular portions of industry'
end.prOuooo [bear; hear *',4 is alinviat
possible to imagine that die Malt Tax should not
a very great lacrosse from the reduction of the duty .on
beer thew, hear!], and that the general
which generally results from the reduction of taxation
will have a 1901 It benskial effect .6m every,
_branch'
of itulustry which contribimen, immediately 'or • re-
the Revenue ••11). If

wit.l.l that mischance, if it does arise, and that it win
not shrink from the performance of its duty to, the
country, in making a provision., for the deficiency.
For my own part, I can say with all sincerity, that I
have laboured most earnestly to select the course
which I thought most conducive to the public good,
and that I have endeavoured, in the applioation of
those means in my . power, to give relief in
that quarter where I knew the greates distress to prevail;
and that I have exercised the discretion reposed in me in
that manner which I conceived to be most conducive to the
comfort and happiness of the labourin gclasses of the people.
(hear.) If I should be disappointed in the effects I anti-
cipate from that selection ; if the revenue, instead of
being benefited, should be injured, I shall still have the
satisfaction of feeling that my intentions were gootl,
and that I erred with an earnest desire to relieve.
I do not think, however, that we shall fail ; I sea

in the darkness that has lately surrounded vs a
ray of light. I think that there is even now a prospect
of our emerging from the clouds of misery .and dis-
tress, by which we have been enveloped, into a state ap-
proaching to something of the greater happiness and
prosperity ; but if I shall unhappily be disappointed its
that expectation, I shall deplore, but not regret my errcik.
I shall rejoice that I have made an attempt to relieve those
classes which have been suffering so much from distress ;
and I shall be well content to acquiesce is the obloquy
of having made a false calculation. The Right Hon.
Gentleman concluded, amidst loud and general cheers,
by moving, the usual Resolution f Our report of his speech
will, we trust, be found tolerably correct in substance
and in language; but the Right lion. Gentleman, from
the weakness, we presume, of recent indisposition,
dropped his voice at the conclusion of his sentence, in a
manner which made it extremely difficult at times to con -
jecture what was intended to be ciavered to the Coin-

mittoo.
Me. BARING observed, that no eentl.en in in the situation of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer could cont... down with a dearer
statement than the right honourable gentleman had • yet as the
financial statement was rather concise, he (Mr. lilting) foetal
that it did not meet the understanding of many members. The right
honourable gentleman proposed a reduction of :4,400,000/. and as Isis
surplus was only 3,070.0110/. the nominal deficiency in the resent::
next year would be 330.000/. and to meet this deficiency the rigs-.
honourable gentleman had no reemarce but in the probable augmen-
tation of the revenue, and in the stamp department. The lie-
nourable gentleman spoke in a low tone for some time ; wlom
we could hear him, we understood him to say that this was th.•
first Chancellor of the Exchequer who ever swept away all sues
plus Cris of " No, no !" ) The lionouraLle member would
say " Yes." As far as figurca would go. the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had swept away all surplus except what might
be gained by the proposed nduction in the four per cents. IL
(Mr. Baring) did not mean to say that there was an 'knu-
rly required for the public creditors, for there was no danger. Mr.
Pitt once said that no man could ever have the boldness to repeal a
law, meaning the sinking fund bill, which was to operate as a relict'
to the distresses of the people. Yet the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer came down to-night to fritter away what Mr. Pitt looked on as
a safeguard against the distresses of the people. The objection to
the operation of the sinking fund. was that it was abandoned. Mr.
Pitt's plan was, that whenever there was not a surplus to the pro-
posed amount of the sinking fund, additional taxes should be im-
posed to make up the deficiency, the ultimate effect of which
would be to relieve the country from the debt ; it would be like
a gentleman wasting his property to pay his debts. In the pre-
sent state
.of the country there should be a sinking fund of four.
or five millions at least; if this was properly kept up, it would
convert the debt into terminable annuities: (hear, hear, hear.)
When the statements of the right honourable gentleman shall have
reached the public, they will say, " Is that all ; are there to be no
more reductions ?" Without reference to the mode in which this was
accomplished, the number of persons iuterested in the public funds
was 1,370,000; the number of accounts kept at the ;Bonk of Eng-
land, on account of the national:debt, wax 274,823. I'hesc persons
were generally the most intelligent part of the community ; and if
no petitions came from them, it was because they felt secure in the
solvency of the nation. Ile looked on the state went of the right
hon. gentleman as hollow and unsafe; it gave the country ne pros.
pect of ever getting rid of the debt. The hon. member read an ex-
tract from a pamphlet lately published, proposirg to raise the I po
cents. to 3 per cents. giving 701. in the latter for 100/. of the ter-
mer. This would effect a reduction in the national debt of 30 per
cent. at-once, which would more than counterbalance the incense of
interest. He should not like to see a permanent financial system
established in times of distress. He would be better pleased. to
see the right honourable gentleman. withstand the premettre
.of the moment, and come prepared hereafter to establish a
peratament system of finance. The bon, member have here some
extracts from a speech of Mr. Pitt's, respecting the Sinking Fund.
in 1796, wherein Mr. Pitt strongly urged the necessity of a Sinking
Fund, as the only means of meeting emergencies. The bon. mem-
ber was sorry that the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not with_
Mond the present pressure, which he hoped would be only tempest%
aullt endeavour to support the Sinking Fund, France, America, atia
ifteessia, were reducing their debts ; and was this to be the only
;country that would not endeavour to get rid of her burdens ? As rt
was, bethought the right hon. gent. bad made a iudielows eeivc-
don in the reductions which he proposed ; bnt instead of re-
, Hering the peasantry of the country, as the right honourable
gentleman hed stated he should do, by repealing the tax on beer, ii •
would be found that he would relieve the artisans of the towns. It
was the tradesmen and mechanics in large towns that would chiefiy
benefit by that repeal. He looked on what were!called war tasts
as a bad system • suppose we went to war for six months only, we
should undergo all the machinery of a war viz at a great expen•e
He, therefore, thought it would be better to borrow/ money for bush,
occasions. The hon. member concluded by expressing the satisfac-
tion with which lie heard the speech of the right hon. gentleman,
and he was sure the country would heat it with equal eatisfac-
tion—(hear),
Lord 4LTHORP differed from him bon. friend in some nape**.
but he agreed with him in this, that the public creditor had n
reason to feel alarmed. He thought that the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had made a good selection in the taxes which he proposed
to reduce; but there were many other taxes which bore hard oft the
labouring classes, and which were not very productive to the tr.
venue; such as the duties on tobacco,'which ought to be got rid u!.
He hoped his hon. friend would persevere in his motion. He wale
not one of those who considered that the country was not able to
bear the present amount pf taxation, if that tasation did not terse
upon the industry of the counts y.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr ROBINS(IN spoke in favour of the proposition made to the
house by the Chancelloi of ahe Exthequer' but thought Al. at the-
right hon. member aaght io have gone much farther ; but as he tta.L•
a motion relativeee the reduction of taxation that preseed upon the,
poor, he should opt advert to the subject tallier upon that occasion.
Mr. HUM: exprtsied his gratification et Mae statement made to the.
house by the right how. the'Chancellor of the Etehequet t•no tax wee
more pernicioas this) the tax upon beer, and he was satisfied that
he reduction would be ultinistely a saving to the country o'
8,000,000 i. insteatlOT3,ooo,9llol. annually. Hy the redaction on
leather, he was aleo•Of opinion that the public would reap consider.
able advantage, batty the xerdations of the menu?, thentariaa..
tuee of the article. of leatheetme confined to a few monopolists,,
F* making these *auctions% the Chancellor Of the Exchequer was
deserving* great *edit. Bit bk. Huntet) only regret was, that
he did not go far enough: • HE thought the right hen: gent. might
have gone further tettboatuay fear of 111 toncequetwee arleciagoo the'
revenue therefrom for from tree year 1816 up io 18281 a reduction
of (awake had taken !Lee to the extent of 9,136,0061.; anti
• yet the. revesse.4o the kin year was little more 'than a (dittlicif
shone the amount proem/Cis the year 1547 So that hods this.
he algae* that the right honourable gentlemen seed ifoot-**,
for the revenges in the reduction of taxation. He thought a
redaction .tif two * three millions more Might • biker
'place with great safety.' The ditty upon *Mk atiM •maillen ought
decidedly to Betaken off: ;these taxeirreased, heavily upon.the!
pmple, and their aggregate amount exceeded 1.3111150004. • If thaw
:duties were taken or, there meal still be a taigas in the avvenuv
'of 7110401/06 the Chancellor of the Exchequer having stated that
after the redesetimu *high he eonternplated• mere would. hi snit in
,the Treasury 2,130:8001.... Be also thoweln that there *humid he 4.1.
!reduction of half a million *Fon the estimate for rite twiny, nasty;
ordnosee, Re. which ridittions he ttentgtat, would bo Made up Av
the imprount mode itf collection salvrid respecting the nverue.
and the othp. eetablialmtesia. . • •
, Ms. BAMICLAN mink that On redisction anti al* tan tignn -beer
:would hes pest 'dewlap to the public.. Neve tie; the tax is oft:
'brewers -- fhlitave s objection Pe • -bear -" baps

- ;

'1!. .1 . • •

St

• ' • ••• .0;

ai lately, a the Revalue [hear: bear 11. 1f these Cersi;;Zwers-7;0741K;;;;X:;;;:;;S 1.4;71:71;"-ZrZe .t7e;; •
celettlifife 5hp4,1141 prove favourable—and I here thaw" *rut
,i - ' . •._ • . • • • , .•
eq,.:retert
.to Ipprebeligi they wio not.—ttmia tile 31r- ki*Bleiti.T__elsi Windt et,allfroil OttOhe mate
wafter°. et Abe .farther easpluo wall* ebe meet* vest suds by thralmtstagbelibrilelbsestr. • Iles Ault othe
saws. Ain ganker to the corafpris of the VI • griugotitake mativred, rim jai .gat,* •
woo, the4iet Aug tees eirimilit tv,..
, if, „94 tiiie 0174 bolo uu4i9Wilito, 'low .ow 4b.4.1.• •..mi 14 . saikamkbommi Derliftriti tti• :
401099iei 99 t 9 9, lil & ICReciai gicklig
I ara%confideat that arliesserit _will kaoW burr. le persheia•mibe ' . r..
:fripboid . :1 •*-- • • f: ..
. . ...
.._ . . •