The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-20 00:00:00

their duty to promote.--( Hear, hear.) In fact, to hear this
question spAren of as it had been in that if bilge. one w.tulti
scarce believe that they were in an assembly of reasona'ole men>
When we had acquired a colony, it had been the acknowledged
principle, that all the land which was not in the occupation of
the natives, or of persons to whom they had made made real
transfers of it, should be considered the property of the
owner.—( Hear.) And supposing it were otherwise, still it was
for the good of the natives themselves, for the advantage of the
colony, and for the general benefit of mankind, that the Crown
should assume that right.—( Hear, hear.) His Right
Honourable Friend the Member for Oxford had spoken

IT, he would not say exaggerated, terms of the
labours of the missionaries. But yet it could not
he denied that there had been on the part of some of them an
attempt to add to their duty in spreading Christianityftoo
rea y a yielding to the temptation to acquireproperty.—( Hear,
hear.) He thought that whatever title in land should be recog-
nised, that title should be held under the Crown, and not
under any sham treaty.—( Hear, hear.) Was it to be said,
that in consequence of such a treaty there fine islands
were to remain waste until it should be convenient to the

Crvwn to purchase the land from those wretched natives?
Of all the devices that co ad have been practiced in a national
as:embly, that surely was the greatest which asserted that

50 000,090 or 70 0110,000 of acres, such as was eompre.
hen4ed in the Island of New Zealand, should be taken from the
original possessors by the Government under a base 41,1nsi:in.
He would u ge the Administration, therefore, if they would not

fall under the odium of adopting that device, to say what was
their interpretation of the treaty of Walton,. Differ-
ences as to its meaning were entertained by Honour-
able Gentlemen on his side of the House, and
among others the Noble Member for London. from
the Gentlemen on the benches opposite. It must be de-
cided now, and for ever, whether a state could take land on its
own right, or give tobacco and Jews-harps for it. The way in
which everything hitherto had been done in the island
was to mar prosperity, and to destroy an infant and
promising colony.—( Hear, hear.) But it was not his
desire to discuss the misfortunes of the past, but he had
risen rather to inquire the intentions of the Government for
the future. Did they mean to continue the island of New
Zealand a penal colony, and govern it as such? Were the people
not to be allowed to govern themselves? And was it in-
tended to establish any, and if so, what institutions, there ?
We have seen all the mischief that had resulted from the con-
fused policy respecting New Zealand. When the Government
were called upon to state their opinion on the subject, was it
satisfactory to state that no change was intended in the
administration of the colonial affairs ? He considered that
Captain Fitzroy had not acted very judiciously in the expe-
dients to which he had resorted, but the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had stated it was a difficult matter to make
man in a foreign country responsible for every action which he
might see fit to perform, which his wisdom or experience might
dictate. He would, not, however, say one word against Cap-
tain Fitzroy, notwithstanding the errors of which he had been
guilty. He wished to ask the Right Hon. Secretary for the
Home Department upon what principle he intended to govern
New Zealand? what encouragement did they mean to give to
the colony ? The Hon. Member for Leominster, who had dis-
tinguished himself by the speech he had made last
night, suggested that the Government should purchase
the colony from off the hands of the New Zealand Com-
pany. He objected, however, to this course, as, in
the first place, it would cost a great deal of money; and, in
the second lace, the New Zealand Company were better
acquainted with the country than any new governing body
could be, and he thought they were still capable of pro-
tecting and increasing the interests of the colonists. Tell the
New Zealand Company what was to be their legitimate station
as landowners, and what was their present situation with re-
spect to natives and settlers—let the Government tell them
this distinctly. The colony had already entailed on the Go-
vernment considerable expense, which was likely to be still
further increased. It had been said that a regiment of troops
was to be sent out. He wished the Honourable Mem-
ber for Montrose was here to take that fact under
his especial revision. The expense of sending out a regiment
of troops included various charges of commissariat, victualling
staff, and other expenses. The expense at the lowest would be
100,0001., and the country would be unnecessarily saddled with
it. The evils of misgovernment were now rife in New Zealand.
Captain Fitzroy found everything in disorder, everything in con-
fusion, and no means were pointed out by which he could repair
those evils. It appears that New Zealand was governed by
a council constituted under a provision of the 3d and
4th of Victoria, with relation to New South Wales
and its dependencies. The question then would arise
as to how far New Zealand could be considered
independent of New South Wales. This was a question to
which he thought the Government should give a definite an-
swer. —(Dissent from Sir Robert Peel.) At least the
Government were bound to tell the House what they in-
tended to du with respect to New Zealand; and if they intended
to bring in an Act of Parliament to constitute it an indepen-
dent colony, some steps were necessary to amend
the state of things in that unfortunate island.
They had had people murdered, and it was most proper they
should find means of putting an end to those disturbances.
There was another national point which he would like to bring
before the Right Hon. Gentleman. They were going to esta-
blish for the first time a purely agricultural colony on the same
principles as their own constitution What were they to do with
respect to the laws if the land—were they going to send ov -r
their whole code of laws ? Were they to establish the right of
primogeniture? If they did not meet this in the first instance
by some intelligible principle, which could be easily worked out
in New Zealand. they would now establish a scene of contu-
sion and contention, which would take them many years to
settle. He wished the Government would enlighten them on
these subjeCts. He expected that before this debate had been
brought to a close, that they would discover what hope there
was of good to be done without going into Committee. If they
were to be left to the mercy of the Colonial-office, or any Co-
lonial-officer, for the future Government of this country, thou-
sands of miles distant, the Government would find that
year after year complaints would le made here by the New
Zealand Company, and year after year addition grants would
be ;ooked for. He scarcely knew how to talk of the Colonial
Government on this matter. If they conformed to the rules
laid down by his Noble Friend, and inspired the agents
abroad with a little good temper and a little forbearance in
the exaction of their duties, such difficulties would not arise.
He did not wish to impute anything to the Noble Lord at the
head of the Colonial-office. Nobody could admire him more
than he (Mr. Ellice) did, for his talent, but there seemed in
this transaction to be an absence of other qualities quite as in-
dispensable to the duties of that office, as the great talent
which he possessed. He held it to be impossible for any man
to have sufficient power and time, to execute all the duties
thrown upon larn by the increasing business of the Colonial-
office. There was New Zealand. That colony had been
added to the responsibility of the Foreign-office within the last
four or five years, and this colony was increasing in diffi-
culty every hour. A good deal of that difficulty might
be cured by a little forbearance. The Government should
conciliate men, and, as far as they could, unite men together,
and not quarrel with men because one was impertinent,
another unreasonable, and a third had a prejudice, which it was
impossible to subdue. When he saw the situation of the poor
colonists, subjected as they were to the violence of the natives,
and being without the protection of the Government, ha said
that their conntryrnen in that distant part of the world had a
right to appeal to that House. He again repeated to the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite that he (Mr. Ellice) had
only risen to express his opinion as to what course ought now
to be pursued by Parliament in the settlement of this question.
They ought not to waste any more time in recrimination.—
( Hear, hear.) He hoped that course would be abandoned
on both sides, as it could lead to no good. —( Hear.)
He expressed himself more in pity than in anger, from the
hope of saving the colonists, who had been the victims of a
miserable policy, and with the hope of realising a future good.
Mr. CARDWELL said he would take the advice of the
Right Hon. Gentleman so far as to avoid saying anything that
could excite irritable feelings, yet he could not altogether give
up reference to the past proceedings connected with the colony.
He. sat in the Committee on the affairs of New Zealand last
year, and he could bear testimony that with regard to the
resolutions which had been come to on the business of the
Committee, there had not been the slightest recriminatory dis-
pute. Neither had there been any expression of feeling in re-
gard to the New Zealand Company, nor any reference to what it
had done. except in so far as it was necessary for the inquiries of the
Committee to refer to certain points of policy in its proceed-
ings. Though he could not agree with the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman that it was useless and unnecessary to enter
into any defence of the colonial policy, yet he
would refer to the policy only so far as it tended to elucidate
the question The Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland
(Lord Howick) had acur dely stated the question—That it was
the protection of the settlers, and the rights and interests of
the native population. This was not a subject of recrimina-
tion, but a question of great and prominen. importance. To
that topic he //field esinfiee himself, and that only. What was
the real question? That all the difficilltie3 which had been
experienced had arisen from the land question. He was happy
0 say, however, that that difficulty was id a great measu,e
-vercorne. He believed ihat, all the la id in tie progress of
scttlement had now been definitely arranged, with not sin2,:e
exception. The land held by the New Z •aiand Comp-my W 44
under a very different claim to th.:t of any ener an
.he colony, for, while all the other land of the colony requir,s
a coefirmatory grant, that of toe Ncw Z.-altos Genpssr
.as an absa at.. g ant. that grant wis m ice by ,„„
Noble Lord the Member for the Coy of Lo,i‘e,
(Lord J. Rue-ell). He would not *Vernet to give another ver-
sion of the report of the Committee, but he should cont-nd
that it the basis ,e 1 which the report of the Committee was
founded was bad, he should destroy toe arguments of that re-
port, and the itiference to which they woill,l naturally lead. He
wouio not ..V tiat the fink res. ilute in of the C. in it ee %VA?,
at varaoce wi.h me es vience Jail b-ime them, but he wool.;
'row that the c.mclus;inis at wh ch th Commit tee arrived were
cinerary oi the history of New Zealand. He held in his hand
a letter written by the Noble. Lord, on the lath March, 1840,
to his Noble Colleague at the head of the Foreign-office, from
which it was evident—firstly, that there were no*. less than
three enactments on the Statute book. all clearly disclaiming
that New Zealand was a part of the British dominions ; and,
secondly, the acknowledgment of William IV., that New Zee-
land was a new and independent State. The Noble Lord the
Member for Sunderland (Lord Howick) had so frankly taken
upon himself his share of the blame for the first transactions,
that he should not quote it against him, in the way of taunt ;
but he would adduct a document, in which it was shown that
such was the state of New Zealand, that the natives were
being butchered in the islands, merely for the purpose of send-
ing their heads to the museums of thus country. After that
there had been an express mission to the Courts of
New Zealand, which plainly showed that they were
to be regarded as a flee and independent people.
Such had been the opinion of the Noble Lord the Member for
London in 1840, and at the same time, or rather at an earlier
period, on the 22d of June, the Member for Taunton, in a
Treasury Minute of that date, expressed sentiments exactly in
consistence with those he (Mr. Cardwell) had that night pro-
pounded. He would refer to the treaty of Watonga for a short
time. Honourable Members were familiar with the language
of that treaty, and, therefore, he would not read it, but just
call the attention of the House to the first clause, by which the
Government had bound themselves to grant to the natives all
the forest rights and fisheries which they might possess,
and the second clause reserved to the Crown the right of
pre-emption. The pre-emption was confined to land which
was not occupied by the natives. It was asserted that Sir G.
Gipps and the Noble Lord did not understand the treaty. Why,
Mr. Williams had explained to them exactly the position in
which they stood before they would consent to sign the treaty.
" Oh, do not sign it, for after you have
your lands." Another said, " Oh, by
done One partye
o they
e had a d
. w suali d„ take
all means sign it, for they will not take your lands."
And thus were the opinions expressed in this remark-
able debate. The whole of this had been expressly
stated to Sir G. Gipps. Why, he thought that it was a Jibe
on Sir G. Gipps and the Noble Lord to say that they could
not, or would not, understand the treaty. After all this, Dr.
Evans and two others went to Sydney for the very purpose of
asking the opinion of Sir G. Gipps, and it was after that in-
terview that Sir G. Gipps had stated that he could not assent
to any decision on the matter ; for until after inquiry it was
impossible for him to sag whether arty injury had been
done to the natives or not. He did not know what instruc-
tions had been given to the two Commissioners which Sir G.
Gipps had sent over afterthis ; but to his mind it was impossible
for any man to use plainer language for indicating his knowledge
of the nature and principles of the treaty. The N.ibe Lord
was accused of framing tiro plain and inconsistent agreements
within a few days. One was dated the Bth of tinvember and
the other shoved that a communication had been sent out to
Sir Gipps which was dated on the 21st December, which
recognised the other agreement. The correspondence with