The Sun.
London, England, 1829-04-08 00:00:00

you live tinder a Constitution which gives equal advan- '
tages to all subjects, you understand its nature, that you
value its principles, its landmarks, and its beauties."—
(Hear.)---When these happy effects should result from the
Bill, as he hoped they would, if it were passed with pro-
per securities, his Noble Friend at the head of the Govern-
ment would enjoy that repose which his great exertions
and sacrifices so well deserved. In conclusion, the Noble
Duke observed, that though deeply sensible of the import-
ance of the principle of the measure, yet, if it did not come
from the Committee with full securities, he could not give
it his further support.
The Earl of CLANCARTY said, there were one or
two points to which, as they had not been adverted to by
other Noble Lords, he would -briefly call the attention of
their Lordships—he meant the time and the occasion of
the introduction of this measure. He could assure their
Lordships that be was not at anytime an exclusionist ; on
the contrary, he was always desirous, whenever the pro-
per time should arrive, to take into consideration the dis-
abilities affecting the Roman Catholics, with a view to
their removal as far as might be consistent with the secu-
rity of our Protestant Constitution in Church and State.
But so very differently did different men view the same
things, that he owned that tlse very 'circumstance. which
induced some Noble Lords to support the present measure,
were those which'urged hiM to oppose it. He alluded to
the recent conduct of the Catholics in general through the
country. He said of all, becaute'. most of them had ac-
ceded to the conduct of the Catholic 'Association, all of
them bad acquiesced in it, and by none of them was it
disavowed.—(Hear, hear. )—That conduct, he owned, bad
greatly weakened his desire to extend to the Catholics' any
greater share of political power than they already possessed.
Since his entrance into public life, he bad adhered: to the
principles of a great statesman, who had•laid it doWn as a
rule that•the admission of Roman Catholics to political
power should, in the first place, be dependent on the good
behaviour of that body, so as to make it safe to admit
them ; and next, upon what he was sure would be con-
sequent upon that behaviour—upon the anxious desire of
the great majority of the people that such admission to
power should be granted. Nuw at the present day the
very reverse of this took place. They had first the con-
duct of 'the Catholic Association—that misbegotten mon-
ster, whose acts had never been disavowed by any of the
same community—a body which he would say had not
only not been opposed by his Majesty's servants in Ireland,
but (and he said it without intending to snake a charge on
any individual) which had latterly been encouraged in that
country. This led him to advert to what had fallen from
a Noble Marquis on a former evening—he was so confused
about days, that he could not say on which day of the
discussion it was, but—he meant the Noble Marquis (An-
glesea) who had lately presided ever hie Majesty's Govern-
ment in Ireland. That Noble Marquis had said, that he
would plead not guilty to the charge of having given en-
couragement to the Catholic Association. Now it ap-
peared to him (Lord Clancarty), that the opinions of many
in the country as to that point would rest on the answers
which the Noble Marquis might give to a few questions
which he, without meaning any disrespect, would beg to
put to him. He would therefore ask the Noble Marquis,
whether he had not exercised the highest prerogative of
the Crown, in liberating from a large portion of a punish-
ment which had been justly inflicted upon him an officer
of that Association ? He would ask whether that libera-
tion was founded on the report of the Judge who had pre-
sided at the trial,—whether their report was favourable to
the convicted party or unfavour.7.lde,—whether the report
of physicians had not been resorted to, the report of the
Judge net being considered sufficiently favourable? He
would also ask whether, before the liberation of that per-
son, any apology had been required from him, to the two
highly respectable Magistrates whom he had grossly in-
suited, and who had prosecuted him at a very consider-
able expense ; and, above all, he would ask the Noble
Alarquis whether any security had been required for the
future good behaviour of the person so liberated? He
did not mean- to say, that the Noble Marquis could
not give a satisfactory answer to each and all of these
questions, but he (Lord Clancarty) must say, that
unless such answers were given, he did not
think that the Noble Lorl could be acquitted of hav-
ing encouraged the Catholic Association in Ireland. It
should be recollected that this person was the envoy from
the Association to this country—that he was the organ
through whom they made their communications here, and
that he was in all respects identified with" the proceedings
of that body. The Noble Marquis had said that the Go-
vernraent of Ireland possessed a responsibility as the ser-
vants of the Crown, and that they had acted upon that
responsibility. That was true; but it did not alter the
merits of the case to which he adverted. 'He would ask,
what had been the consequence of the apathy of 'Govern-
ment in Ireland during the last five years which he (Lord
Clancarty) had resided in that country ? Was it not that
his Majesty's authority was in a state of abeyance there?—
that the monster of the Association had grown up to such
a size as even to astound those by whorls it was reared ?
And yet now their Lordships were holding out, as it were,
a proclamation for ever of the highest rewards for such
seditious conduct.—(Hear )—He would not ,trespass
longer on the attention of their Lordships, but merely to
add, that the provisions of this Bill left all the mischiefs
which before existed just as it found them.—(Hear, hear.)
—They did not at all grapple with the real danger, or suf-
ficiently support the principle, that the power of the King,
Lords. and Commons, should be supreme in the country.
The Noble Duke (Wellington) had told their Lordship.
that the effect of this Bill would be to promote the peace
and prosperity of the country. He sincerely hoped that
the antivipations of the Noble Duke might be realized in
that respect; and he could assure him, that, thßt however
strongly he objected to it, on the grounds he "had stated,
he would, now that he saw the Bill must pass, be as
earnest in hoping that the expected good might result
Croat it, as its most warm supporters could be.—(Hear,
hear.)—He, and he had no doubt every zealous Protestant
and loyal subject, would, when the Bill became part of the
law of the land, exert themselves to snake it as productive
of the desired effect as was possible.—(Hear, bear.)
The Marquis of ANGLESEA said, he was little prac-
tised in the ways of Parliament, for he owned he had not
paid that attention to them which from his rank and sta-
tion he ought to do ; but inexperienced as he might be as
to the usage of Parliament, it did appear to him, that if
he felt it his duty to bring a charge against any Noble
Lord, it would not be by putting to him a string of ques-
tions at a moment when it might not be convenient to him
to answer thent—(cheere)—and the less so when they had
been put (as was the case in this instance) without the
courtesy of any previous intienation.—(Loud cries of
Hear, hear.")—He would be disposed to give to any
Noble Lord whom he might deem it proper to accuse full
notice of his intention, and of the nature of the charge,
that he might be prepared to meet it.—(Hear hear.)—
Their, Lordships were at that moment abouCto go into
Committee upon a most important measure, and certainly
it was not a time to put him (Lord Anglesea) upon his
trial—(Hear, hear)—but he could assure the Noble Earl
that if after the present measure should have been disposed
of—for not a syllable would he now utter in the way of
answer to questions so put—(Cheers)—but whenever the
Noble Lord might hereafter please to enter upon the ques-
tion of the liberation of Mr. Eneas Macdonnel, or any

other measure of his Government in Ireland, he would not
only he ready to enter into the discussion and defence of
those measures, but would be exceedingly thankful to the
Noble Earl for affording him the opportunity,—(Cheers,)
The Duke of WELLIIsIGTON—AIthough his Noble
Friend (the Marquis of Anglesea) did not feel it his duty
to give any explanation of the circumstance to which the
Noble Earl had referred But first he would beg to re-
mind the Noble Lord (Clancarty), and the House, of the
report; which he had before urged for submitting the mea-
sure before them--reasons, founded upon the state of Ire-
land, and paramount to any consideration of the Catholic
Association. These reasons were referable to the safety
and honour of the State ; the first of which might be sa-
crificed if the Government took no step, and the second
compromised if coercive measures were not adopted for
putting down a body which had become dangerous. Ilis
Friend (Lord Clancarty) had lef# out of his consi-
deration that a most important Bill had been passed for
elapsed after
down
i aftei thetha Catholic
t body yhadAs7lbocnilaittt,i7, toantitlleaatuntohnotrl had
authority
yof
Parliament before he (the Duke of Wellington) had intro-
duced the measure now before their Lordships, and which
he felt it was his duty to snbritit as soon as possible after
the first measure had been carried. But his Noble Friend
bad Complained of the liberation of a person who had been
Convicted of libel before the expiration of his sentenee.
He would tell his Noble Friend that that step was founded
upon ylie report mule to Government of the state of that
individual's health, and that his life must be aterificed if
his confinement were prolonged. The Noble Lord then
at the head of the Government of Ireland had stated the
circumstance, and his Majesty's servants would not have
dune their duty, if they had not advised the course which
was adopted.—(Hear.)--But the fact had no reference
whatever to politics, for it would have been done had the
State of things In Irelaud been twenty timee went than
they were at the ar, liecr.)—He beriOed his
Noble Friend (Lord Clancarty) was personally interested
in the circumstance to which he referred---(hear)--but that
could have bad np weight, with the Noble Mavis at the
head of the Government, who was acting in the perform-
ance of a duty for which he was responsible ; and most
certainly the Noble Narcinis would have been answerable