Star.
London, England, 1808-02-26 00:00:00

mien but a very short time,
.indulge at the or
i'''''- -., te of that night would convince him.—
„„,,,,,tal stress° had hcen laid because there appeared
topsw- in the correspondence, and because there ap-
rod three l\erttersresof Lord Leveson of the same
N orh pcct to the first, he could tale
4113 da•te. if to assert, that if these chasms were 1
nil, the adjimrt matter would not serve either his
„no that night, or any other upon the like subject;
"--__A ,respect to the latter, the circumstance
was
al:al i ame re clerical mistake,but was such as every
7-11 aid man must acknowledge to be so, when it was
dent;that the whole of the correspondence was
d begun and ended, between the 30th Au-
r•Pan'll 211 September. The observations therefore
rmystery, and magnitude, being concerned in
at,a quiteout of the question, and to every ra-
loalit' mesa must appear puerile. When the opera-
commenced against Copenhagen, and as
Aticals/we te hof Aug
.„ ~ ust, the intelligence reached
',,„' a: ch the 20t
and at that moment the Court of St.
r-3 ,
„,..Ch under the influence of France. And
?e:s.thistopic he could enlarge at very considerable
---,..th..-but as this subject would again be discussed
''Neonesday next, he would retrain, at present,
on y observation on it, save only to say,
frff waskinnot fairly dealt by, when he was charged
vitirimp. utine allY thing like collusion on the sub' ect
„i Denmark, between the late Administratiort. and
itoce--there never at any time fell from his lips an
iota thatcherished or expressed it. (Here the , Right
r..endeman entered into a full and equivocal re-
Afum.rati;--01' the charge). He then proceeded to spew
did not desire the friendship of Great
that Denmark
Briain, eyen when France with an army, hostile and
t
daivroos to her, was on the very borders of Hol-
i
l . On the papers respecting this circumstance, if
S,ilothers were wanting, he could rely as a reason for
th„Botts that took place in the North of Europe.
if the para pers called for were produced, great public
venience must follow. In fact, they
if, could not 1,
I,„c.Pnroduced without imminent public danger. We
that ally in peril. And yet the ,
abut one ally—
Je/ht Honourable Gentleman would have his Ma-
corr
#ty's Ministers disclose all her esponde
enCourts ce, all I.
for correspondence that passed between th
d Stockholm and. London were to be exposed, be-
cause
a species of constitutional curiosity had de-
sanded it ; and to gratify its insatiable appetite,
se were to sacrifice a faithful and sincere friend. ,
-But that Gentleman conies down to the House, II
armed with the Moniteur, and from extracts
and paragraphs of that paper, calls upon Ministers for i
refutation of charges there made against them. He
cold not avoid having recourse, on this occasion, to
;murk, that so delicately careful was the Moniteur of ,
ttecientleman and his friends, that whenever it hap-
) '
they were run dry in a debate, it fortunately
rived the following day to replenish their resources.
y, on this event, when they were come to a kind of '
bath-like stillness, in drops a lucky Mcmitarr, and
sires a spark of fire to their drooping embers.—Mitai-
ors were also called upon to lay upon the Table of
that House, the whole of the correspondence between
tire Danish Chap d'Affaires and themselves, subse-
quent to the capitulation of Copenhagen. This could
not be done any more than that of granting copies of
the Correspondence between §weden and Denmark,
tfeibich this country had no legitimate possession,
and over which we had no right whatsoever. The
Right Honourable Gentleman, in truth, might as
nen callfot the communication that has passed on
.• • betweta every Court in Europe as those. Indeed,
• as to what did pass between Ministers and the Daniih
0 Charge d'Affaires, it was all a matter of confidence,
I at d, if produced, could not answer any purpose as
• yet specified. It was true that in his communications
i with him (Mr. Canning) he urged to him the pru-
• dence of his Court listening to terms of amity and
r peace; and, said Mr. Canning, " I take credit to
r myself, for recommending the salutary advice."—
Where was the error, he asked ? So little did that
respectable person think it error, that he adopted the
s opinion, and also forwarded the suggestion to his
e Court, but no answer was ever sent to it. There was
if a most wanton and unfounded report propagated, and
to roundly asserted by the Right Hon. Gentleman, that
tt i Ministers had endeavoured to violate the Treaty of
e. Copenhagen, and the terms of the capitulation, and
of this was unblushingly declared to be the fact in that
House, and before the world. Now, he took that occa.
it sioa to declare in that House also, and in the face of the
it world, that it was untrue. Ministers from the first to the
iis lair were determined rigidly to observe the capitulation
of in all iubearings. It was very true, that when the intelli-
'se gene of the capitulation and the terms of it arrived,
'or two articles of it were not understood. The one was
nd that which did relate to the sequestration of British
his property, and its being doubtful whether all British
ty, property
_ was included, or only that which was found
in. el Zealand, and not what was elsewhere 'distributed
•ed throughout the Danish dominions :it was referred to
rnt therespective Commanders on the spot, and who also
ne, had signed the capitulation, to say how it should be
rch explained, when unfortunately both parties concurred
tee in declaring, that it related only to the property found
tan in Zealand ; and with whiat Ministers firmly abided.
eel The other was, whether, by the capitulation, hostilities
un- Were wholly to end altogether with Denmark, or I
ate , wisher only the Treaty related but to Zealand, the
se- slat of war. And in the same way a like reference
✓ a was made to the same persons, and they decided.that
uch it adverted only to Zealand, and did not include any
ether
onepart o( Denmark ; and with this also his Ma-
lion iesty's Ministers agreed. This much he thought it his
)gbt duty to say, in vindication of the conduct of Govern-
sof merit from so foul an aspersion. As to the subject
xiog
d al- , more immediately before the House, he wished to
bring to their recollection the fact of the insult which
i say ' beemark had received in the irruption upon her ter-
nPai-
iowst ....rani and the disgrace inflicted upon one of her
s, Ge-
which she did not resent ; and then, whenthe
Ora . Preach General offered Norway to Sweden, does not
:serer • Denmark conceal that fact from the British Court,
4hr Ind, relying on the friendship of France notwith-
aCo --!4nding, .signifies by that a tacit connection with
unfit her, in preference to a union with this country
he tx It has, however, been said, that we should not do as
ve to much to our enemy, as he would do to us. What-
How. ever might be asserted by new or Old MINI, WI'S be
at the would declare, that when she has excited nations
to de .against us, it becomes us to use all means to annoy'
✓g
for Nor did he look for credit on the score of fer-
ia 0,
~. bearance one atom, being determined to have recourse
Lightlf 'to retaliation in every way he could. He found no
Ica, 0 such thing as forbearance in the Monireor, and, con-

sideriag the Man with whom we were contending, if
he might imitate the example of his Right Hon.
Friend (Mr. Sheridan) in giving garbled extracts of a
Roman poet, to would he, and say=
Arno virotnilife esno,"--
Fas est ab hone Joust" '
Upon the whole consideration of the subject, and the
motion, he must conclude by saying; that if it were
gramed, we must be not only insincere to our Ally,
but indiscreet and unjust to ourselves. He would
therefore resist it.
Mr. WINDHAM thought that very little of the
speech of the Right Hon. Secretary applied to the
question. He begged to remind him and the House,
that according to the arguments advanced by that Se-
cretary, the motion of his Right Honourable Friend
could not be refused : for if it be true that no infor-
mation could be derived from the papers, there could
be no harm in producing them. By this plea, Mini-
sters would always be justified in withholding papers.
If it be true also, that these papers would furnish no
information, it was as true that the House ought to be
satisfied of that, and upon this simple reasoning they
ought to be granted. This mode of arguing came
therefore to the point, confidence, as was exactly
saying, " Don't cross-examine me, what I say is
true." The only reply that could fairly be made to
this, was, that the more peremptory the refusal, the
more determined was their suspicion. At all times
there was a jealousy in Denmark respecting its neu-
trality ; and with respect to her warfare, we must
look to find it of the most severe and determined de-
scription, excited as they are by the manner in which
we have commenced our attack upon them. No
confidence can, therefore, now be broken--no rule of
faith infringed upon--and, of course, no reasonable
excuse can now be offered for withholding them from
the House. In short, from n total absence of all ar-
gument, and no proof of any injury that can arise,
either to friend or enemy, by the production of those
papers, they are kept back, and confidence- is made a
stalking-horse for the refusal. There certainly was
a great degree of pliantness in the House e
on this
side
oc-
casion ; time, however,-would best prov h
was politically or morally right—those who solicited,
or those who refused.
Mr. PONSONBY expressed his surprise at the man-
ner in which this motion was taken up by Ministers,
and entered at considerable length into a view of the
conduct of this country against Denmark by decep-
tion. The question really was, whether we had pro-
posed a edntract of stipulation to Sweden for giving
up possession of Zealand on our evacuation of it? If
the charges brought against the good faith of this
country were true, to what could he compare such
conduct bat to the attack of two robbers, the one of
whom meeting a traveller on the high road, should
say to him, give me your money, and I'll spare your
life, on which the poor traveller complies, but as soon
as he departs, the robber whistles to his comrade,
who all the while stands on the other side of the
hedge, to come. forward and dispatch the unfortunate
person who had been just plundered? so it was with
us towards Denmark, if the charge preferred tees so
be credited, and until his Majestyl-s Ministers ratted
or denied it, he was afraid the imputation would rest
upon Ils. -
Mr. LAING was very far from supposingshatt
Moniteur should be taken as authority to call on Mi-
nisters to advance statements on every occasion,
felt in
opposition to those which it contained ;
but he
himself right in stating, that when it made deliberate
charges, which went' to dishonour and disgrace the
Country, it was the duty of Ministers, under anduch
un-
cir-
cumstances, to refute and repel such gross
founded attacks.
Lord TEMPLE wished to ask the Right Honou-
rable Seeeetary (Canning)
. one question, to which he
expected to receive a distinct answer. If the Right
Honourable Gentleman did not wish to give an ex-
plicit and satisfactory answer, he was certain that the
country would judge for itself, from his silence. The
question whiCli helneant to propose was this, whe-
ther or not any proposition was made to any Power
to occupy Zealand, after our troops should evacu-
ate it ?--( A great cry of Question ! Question ! fol-
lowed.)
i Mr. W. SMITH thought it not at all extraordina-
ry that the Gentlemen on the other side should be anxi-
egerofto"aQuqueeticinstion elwhuthcincOu'ldrathn 'ic;:,
believed, be answered to their credit.
QuestionouthansOMitlgnnorc.jaereTera:HrsyQuDAestiNonthienrose, ! d said, that he
should not occupy the time of the House long, in the
reply to which he was entitled, because, in fact, he
had heard no argument urged against the substantial
charges which he had made. He was not at all sur-
prized to contemplate that solemn silence, and grave
muscular rigidity, which distinguished the Colleagues
of his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Uniting).
na:
e If
he could not refute facts, or rebut charges of th
ture exhibited that night, he certainly had the merit
of drilling aiid shaping both the ccuntenances and
demeanour of his colleagues to his wis
iment his
ts
laughing.) He did not mean to compl
Right Honourable Friend, when he acknow
theledged,
that if eloquence and declamation could answer
purposes &,f a Minister, no man could besent sshunsbetter
qualified to fill and to continue in his pre
tion than the Right Honourable Secretary. But al-
lowing to his Right Honourable Friend all the rise&
to which he was justly entitled on this account, he
must say, that no eloquence, no dexterity of argu-
ment, or force of declamation, could make or efface
the impression produced by the,question of the Noble
Lord (Temple.) The proposition was a simple othno,
and perhaps the more difficult to be solved on at
account, because it might be considered beneath the
level of his Right Hon. Friend's capacity.—(A great
cry Quulion! Question 0-
tary CANNING said, in tnswer to the
, Mr. Secre
1 question put to him so directly by Gentlemen on the
`opposite side, he had no hesitation to declare, that it
was the intention of the Government of this ebantry
to execute the treaty concluded with Dennis*,
`raring to the striet letter of it. Possibly, sifter the
\ratification of the treaty, some doubts might have
arisen on points of policy, in consequence of a decla-
ration of Denmark in favour of France ; but he
.ivould again distinctly repat., tha lieinitters never
entertained an idea of retaining taAmd either by
• theitatelves or by auxiliaries, and that. proposition
was' made to Swedetioseeck eliti other pilleter, for that
purpose. ---
Lord TEMPLE dill'bot conceive !tit' question to

hick been at all answerei `That question war,
ther it was proposed tq any °the power tto ocenpy
Zealand after our *ls should have evacuated it
Mr. CANNING * 'ed, did the Noble Lord mean
to inquire whether; dm.. all 'hopes of a termination
of the war with Deninark'had ceated, Ministers had
it in contemplation, or actually pn)vided, to take any
hostile steps against that coliasrif ? .
The cry of order, order, qiestion, questi on, it 0406-.
came general, and after a few Words from Dr. 'Law-
rence,
The question being loudly called for, thenumbers
gallery
was cleared, and the Holt* divided. The
were—Aies, 86 ; Noes, le4. Majority against the
motion, 99. •
Whilst the Ayes Were in the lobby, Mr. PON-
SONBY stated, that it was intended to go to anotllir
division that night. uestion
_
Mr. WINDHAM then added, that ontheq
of the Army Estimates to-morrow (this day)„ it was
likely there would be a considerable discussion, the
attendance of Members would therefore be particu-
larly necessiz
On thegallery being re-opened, we found Mr. W.
TAYLO moving for some documents relative to
the importation of specie into this country ; the mo-
tion was resisted by the Chancellor of theo Exchequer,
and was, after some conversation, agreed t be with-

drawn,
Lord CASTLEREAG-1 was proceeding to
As
move for the usual documents preparatory to the dis-
cussion on the Army Estimates--
Mr. TIERNEY begged his Lordship's pardon.
for a moment, whilst he asked any of the Right Hon.
Gentlemen on the other side, if it was their intention
that the Army Estimates should be biought to-
morrow ? It could hardly be expected that the ques-
tion on the Orders in Council Bill would be brought
on at the then late hour of the night ; and if shed
one
was to be brought forward to-morrow, he woulwas
be
glad so know on what day the other question
likely to be discussed ? . -
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
lamented that he was not able to point out any open
day on which either of these subjects could with con-
venience be discussed. According to the custom of
the house, notices were to have precedence of the
other questions on the Order List. But if Gentlem
were to persist in the practice of giving notices hen
number of trivial questions, at a time important
subjects were appointed for discussion, they must
üblic business.
considerably retard the p
Mr. TIERNEY observed, that the practice of
giving notices was considered as an obreta:f general
convenience. It the Right Hon. and eel Gen-
tleman wished that the practice should be done away,
he might appoint a day for the discussion, and see
whether the house would be likely to agree with him
in that desire. At present, unfortunately for him,
the only two notices that were likely to create discus-
sion came from the Mends of that Right Honourable
Gentleman. To be candid with the Hon. Contleman,
he publicly avowed that it was his intention, from th
il
e
darkness that was kept about the Orders in Counc
business, to consult privately with some of the best
informed merchants as to the probable effects of that
measure. He thought that some time would h
~ben given that we might, have an opporttntitya ve
of
hearing something from America, at stiCh a crisis as
the present, before the carrying of such a measure
into execution.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE it
R
persisted in his determination ; adding, that if
should be necessary that the House should sit on Sa-
turdays, the questions before it must be disposed of as
speedily as possible. The two questions were then
fixed for to-morrow (this day.)
Lord CASTLEREAGH's motions were after-
wards put and agreed to. • •
On the motion of Mr. CALCRAFT, it was or-
dered, that returns be male to the House of the num-
ber of men raised for the Militia since the time of the
last returns, distinguishing the number of principals
and substitutes, with an account of the average price
fixed in the different counties for the payment of sub-
--,tes.—Adjourned at half after twelve o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS.
The Bishop of St. David's took the oaths and his seat.
The Bank Loan Bill, and the Unclaimed Dividends Bill, passed
through Committees, and were reported.
EDITION TO COPENHAGEN.
The Earl of DARNLEY gave notice of Ids intention to bring
forward a motion on Thursday, respecting the Expedition to Co-
penhagen.
OFFICES IN REVERSION SILL.
On the motion of the Earl of LAUDERDALE, the second
reading of this Bill was postponed till Tuesday. .
DEBTOR AND CREDITOR.
On the motion of the Earlof MOIRA, the second reading of the
Debtor and Creditor Bill was postponed till Friday the th of
March.
TRADE TO TkIE BRAZILS.
On the second reading of the Brazil Trade Bill,
Earl BATHURST observed, that some misap-
prehension had existed with respect to sugar from
the
Brazils coming into competition with the sugar from
critr-own colonies, in the home market, and thus in-
n the West-India interests. This, however,
wwould be effectually prevented by the high duties
imposed upon foreign sugar. His Lordship urged
the importance of the trade with the Brazils, from
whence might be derived cotton, tallow, and vitreous
other articles, and which might also be of essential
benefit to our colonies, as a vessel trading from this
country to the Brazils' might take in there e
latter of
a cargo of
articles of provision and lumber, of th
which there was a photiful supply in the Brazils, and
carrying them to our colonies in the West-Indies, it
might from thence bring home a cargo of colonial pro-
duce.
Lord AUCKLAND adverted to the state of the
sugar market, hoping that it would not be still fur-
ther depressed. His Lordship stated, from the in-
formation he had been able to procure, that the
quantirr of !agar produced in the Brazils was about
19,000 hogsheads, the quantity produced in our own
colonies was about 240,000 hogsheads, the latter of
which was already about 70,000 hogsheads more
than our own consumption required; and, with re-
speCt to the use of the surplus in the distilleries, he
observed, that the whole distilleries of the United
Kingdom would not tonsurne more than 111,1X/0
hogsheads. With respect to cotton, he believed be
produce of the Brazils to amount to 44,00000
pounds; that °four own colonies wasabout 16,11
- '-
pounds. lie was ready to admit this fen
trade to be of very great value to this countri.

•• ,

. ,
tosli **Wert with reaped t‘e
idea of inaking this cnuatre an toterpet for colonial.
produce, that it would be found impossible to force
upon the Continent, that qirantity of colonial pro-
duce which it would consume under other circum-
stances, and with a direct trade:. He did not vie*
this Bill precisely in the same light as his Nola-
Friend, and if considerations arising out of the
tuaticte of the Prince Regent of Port Wholly
a decided Opinion
to oppose it, he must still give
with respect to some circumstances connected wits
it: As to the idea of the Noble ord, that core
.
and lumber could be procured from the Braeilk
for our West India Colonies, be thought It
not to be expected, nor did he conceive it possiliii
that under the present circumstances of the 13razilei
any attention coidd be paid to the cultivation of corn ei?
the cutting. of lumber, particularly under that system
of cultivation which would be adopted there, namelf,
by means of slaves, continually imported ; it was far
Cher to be apprehended that, from the fertility con-
sequent upon breaking up new lands, so large
quantity of sugar might be prduced, as greatly to
diminish the price of-that article. It was upon this
system of importing slaves that he founded his prin-
cipal objection to the Bill. His Lordship briefly reca-
pitulatedthe proceedings of Parliament with respect to
the abolition of the Slave Trade ; and observed, that
that Act would confer immortal honour on the Par-
liament that agre-d to it, and would be remembered
when all petty disputes and dissentious were forgot-
ten. Ministers, he contended, ought to have followed
up that Act, and the Address to his Majesty then vot.
ed, by refusing to enter into any commercial engage‘
meat with the Portuguese Government unless it con-
sented to abolish the Slave Trade; otherwise British
capital would be employed to a great extent in carry.
ing on this detestable teaflic to the Brazils, which
would thus derive great benefit from which our colo-
nies were excludeil. The Legislature had decided,
that wherever commercial benefit might be derived
from that trade, nothing could justify the inhumanity (
• its continuance. The Brazils must exist as an indepen-
dent State, by the protection afforded by the British
Navy—was it then to result, that notwithstanding the
Act of the Legislature, this trade was to be allowed
to be carried on by British capital, and under the
protection of the British Navy ; and this too, for the
still further increase of produce, of *which there wee,
unfortunately, too great an accumulation in our Owl
colonies ? Every consideration of humanity, out
and policy, required, in his opinion, that Ministers
should have made the abolition of the Slave Tea
previous condition to entering into any tommer
engagement with the Portugueze GOVEIIIMent.
/id2lAWEESßUßYobserved, that the trade
in thsrPortag colonial produce, had been previ-
ously .ankd on through the mother country, and the
colony having become the seat of GOVEITIMEnt, there
was no principle upon which these connnercial ar-
rangements could have been refused. As to the Slave
Trade, his opinion upon that subject was well known,
but the abolition of that trade having become an act
of the Legislature, it became the duty, and it was the
wish of the Executive Government to carry. that act
into effect
boo effect, and to use every means to carry
*objec.t of the Address to his Majesty, with respect
to inducing roreign Powers to abolish Irat Trade.—
The circumstances in which the Portugueze Govern•
meat had been placed, and the departure of that Go..
eernment for the Brazils, had hitherto precluded any
attempt to enter into negociation with a view to at-
tain that object. It was scarcely possible to prevent
British capital from being embarked in this trade, car-
ried on to the Brazils ; but no opportunity would be
lost by the Executive Government, in endeavouring
to procure the consent of the Portuguese GOVernMent
to abolish the Trade. It could not be expected of him
to enter into any discussion upon the supposition of a
refusal on the part of the Portuguese Cover: mesa to
consent to such abolition.
AUERICAN INTERCOURSE BILL.
At the request of Lori Auckland, it was agreed
by Earl Bathurst to postpone the third reading of this
Bill, till to-morrow, which was ordered.
FRENCH DECREE.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE adverted to the
Paper laid on the table, containing information re-
specting the increased rigour in executing the French
Decree, which had been received previous to the 11th
of November, ISM, and cbserved, that there was no
secret in it, the publication of which could endanger
any person, or tend to destroy any source of inform-
ation, the most important parts of it having already
appeared in the public newspapers. He theref ore
moved, that it should be printed.
pLord HAWKESBURY did not think it necessary
tb have them printed, especially as the Noble Lord
who pressedlor their pro.duction, had treated of them
*papers of public notoriety. (These are the papers
erdered by the House on Tuesday last, against the
'wish of Ministers.) As they had then considered
them so well known, he could net see why they should
now want them to be more public. They were upon
the table for their Lordships to refer to, and it was
for them to decide whether they should be prin ed.
Lord GREY thought it, was absolutely necessary
to have them printed, to ice whether what had been
called a private correspondence was the same as that
which had appeared in the public newspapers.
Lord BA'rHURST maintained they ought not to
be printed,
sash y would then be circulated all over
the world, lgh they were from private individu-
als
; and he instanced the ill consequences of printing
some Papers relative to Toulon-ey were upon
to
the
table, and their Lordshipsps who wished might refer
them.
Lord GRENVILLE thought the only difference •
was, whether their Lordships should. be accommce
dated with the Papers in t e hir own hands, or be com-
pelled to compare themk*at the table.
The motion was then put and Tried. -
The Earl of LAUDERDAL .erefd;
that one part of the information contain:4 lathe ra-
per an the table, bad appeared some time shasois an
Evening kiewspaper, from which either Master. merit
have recessed it, or to which they sent, it.. What, be
4 alluded to ems a letter from Rotterdiati Isaias his
- •.. September 1807, satin t,
--d in evialing tLe

_--;~',

lietlefit - in September , stain
he United Lordship read, dated 1507tg,
111030 that increased rigour had been need in executing the
Aieved dee iernmereiel reitriCtiOnfi ; bat Os Lordship observed,
14,00000 that-in: that per thanalissa tarked-to it an order
11, Ili of the. pirector-Gatend of the CusuirErnerriop
ettl'of the thist rekels 461 in dap ..11eh had
sari. touched in jib._, Spit 'WI seized,

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