The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-04 00:00:00

GROUP 88.

WATERFORD, WE.ILI'ORD, 'WICKLOW, AND

DUBLIN RAILWAY.

The Committee resumed to-day at twelve o'clock, Mr. Colqu-
houn in the chair.

Mr. Sergeant WRANGRAM opened the case on behalf of the pro.
jectors of the line. The Learned Gentleman proceeded to show
the course the line was intended to take. It started at Dublin,
using the Dublin and Kingstown line as far as the latter
went. From Kingstown it proceeded along the coast
•Itoss; to Waterford. Near to Enniscorthy there were two
forks, diverging right and left ; one into the interior to Carlow,
and another to Wexford,' so as to connect the latter place with
Fishguard in Wales, from whence a line was proposed to Glouces-
ter, by Carmarthen, Neath, and Newport. The whole extent of
railway to be formed was 150 miles, connecting the most important
towns and districts in the south of Ireland with the west of
England. The Learned Gentleman having described the line,
reviewed the benefit which it would confer by connecting toge-
ther the rich mineral and manufacturing districts of this country
with the fertile agricultural districts of the south of Ireland. In
the event of Parliament sanctioning this Bill, he said it was in.
tended to improve the harbour accommodation of Wexford, and
to establish regular and efficient steam communication between
that place and Fishguard. Having shown the great amount of
traffic likely to pass over the line, and the engineering difficulties,
which he represented as being generally of a favourable nature, the
Learned Gentleman concluded by pointing out, at some length, the
advantages this line presented over the Carlow and Wexford line,
already brought under the notice of the Committee.
Witnesses were then called on behalf of the Bill.
The Secretary of the Company deposed to the capital of the Com.
pany, which he stated at 2,000,0001.

Mr. Lewis Vigors, Chairman of the South Wales Railway Com-
pany, gave evidence as to the value of this I.ne as a connexion
between Ireland and England.

Dr. Newland, Dean of Hearns, and Mr. Charles Doyne, were
examined as to the feeling of the inhabitants of the country
through which the line passed, which was generally favourable.
Mr. Gibbons, engineer, said that he was engaged in surveying
the line, and in making sections of the same. There were several
severe cuttings and embankments on the line, but nt,ne of a difficult
character. There was a tunnel of 500 yards long between King-
stown and Bray, and another through the Dips of Bray of 320 yards.
The heaviest eutting at this place was 43 feet, through schistus
rock. Between Bray and Arklow there were two embankments,
968 and 72 feet high. At Arklow there was a viaduct 150 feet
long and 16 feet high. There was a cutting through high rock at
the same places, averaging fur the extent of two furlongs 32 feet.
There was an embankment and viaduct over the River Bann 35
feet high, and another viaduct 100 feet high near to
Enniscorty over the river. There was a serious cut-
ting at New Ross of above two miles long, the deepest part of
which was 54 feet. The Barrow river was crossed three times
after leaving New Ross, by viaducts of 70 feet, 45 feet, and 35 feet
high respectively. Further on there was a tunnel 369 yards in
length. These were the principal engineering difficulties.

The Committee then acljourned till tu-morroar at twelve o'clock.

GROUP DI).
IMPORTANT DECISION.

.7.lar,E CALEDONIAN, TILE GLASGOW,
DUMTRIES, AND CARLISLE, AND TEE
CLYDESDALE JurzcTxorz.
The Committee met this morning at twelve o'clock, and, after
deliberating some time on the points which they had not defini-
tively decided on their adjournment yesterday afternoon,
The CHAIRMAN said that the Committee, having proceeded to the
consideration of the subjects before them, had come to the delibe-
rate and unanimous decision, that the preamble of the Bill called the
Glabgow,Dumfries, and Carlisle Railway Bill, had not been proved.
Mr. HILDYARD then said he appeared on behalf of the Glasgow
and Garnkirk Railway, to oppose the Motherwell branch of the
Clydesdale Junction Railway, and called Mr. King to give evi-
dence, who was examined by Mr. CRANFORD.
Mr. King deposed that the authorised original capital of the
Garnkirk line was 140,0001., and the rate of dividends on that
capital had averaged, for some years past, about 2e per cent. The
directors of the Clarnkirk Railway applied to Parliament last year

for anew Act, which they obtained, for the purpose of making

two different ext,nsions of their line. One of these extension;
was intended to carry the line further into the city of Glasgow, and
was now in course of construction The extension would
doubtless be a very considerable improvement, as it would bring the
terminus of the Garnkirk line to a convenient terminus, and both
passengers and goods I” carried nearer to the centre of the city and

to the harbour.- The expense of the extension would
to a r
beoinsto,ooo/.
In
The second extension was proposed to be ad
Cargill, by which an unfavourable line of railway wouldbextensioncalled
on the Kirkintilloch lire. The estimated expense of that
was 30,000/. or more, and it was nearly completed. A turiner
Conan arable sum, amounting to about :2.5,000/ had been expended
on the Coltbridge extension for the purposn of obtaining the benefit
to be derived from the Wishart and Coltness fine in forwarding
passengers and minerals to Glasgow. A number of coal proprietors
and iron masters had been examined before a Committee last year,
and had expressed very favourable opinions of that extension.
The expense of the conveyance of pig iron and coal would be
materially diminished when the contemplated improvements were
all completed.
The CHAIRMAN interrupted the examination of the witness at
this point, and said it was the wish of the Committee to hear
further engineering evidence as to the junction of the Caledonian
hire with the Clydesdale branch to Hamilton. They wished to
, know whether it would interfere with the Duke's palace at Hamil.
ton. It appeared to them exceedingly desirable that this junction
should be effocted, as the intermediate fork on the Motherwell
branch would, in that rise, be rendered unnecessary.
Mr. Locke, the engineer, stated that it would be impossible to
make a line to Hamilton without materially interfering with the
Duke's palace, and also with the town of Hamilton, besides pre-
renting some engineering difficulties in the passage across the
Clyde.

MI. CRA WFORD resumed his examination of Mr. King, who
proceeded to state, that if the Motherwell branch were constructed,'
the traffic along the Garnkirk Railway would be so greatly dimi-
nished, that scarcely sufficient revenue would be realised to pay the
ordinary working expenses of the line.

The CHAIRMAN said that regarding the Caledonian line as a na-
tional scheme, the .I.:ominittee were desirous that there should be
to obstruction offered in any way to the Glasgow and Garnk:rk
Lae, in its connexion with the Wishart and Coltness Railway.
Some unimportant discussion having ensued without any definite
decision being come to,
Mr. M.txwELL appeared to resume his opposition to the Clydes-
dale Junction Railway on behalf of Sir John Maxwell, the magis-
trates of Gorbals, and the road trustees and others of %Vest-street,
when

The CfIAIRMAN decided that the objections should not be enter-
tained as against the preamble of the Bill, but would be a matter
for consideration when the clauses were being proceeded with,
The preamble waS.oen neciari-1 "l.rf., been proved.
The clauses were immediately proceeded xith: and on arriving
at clause 26, which gave power to the Clydesdale Junction to csl,-

nect it with the Polloc and Govan Railway, under certain restrictions,

Mr. MAXWELL proposed to insert a clause which would have the
effect of compelling all the traffic conveyed along the Polloc
where it passed West-street, to be carried either over the street by
a viaduct or under it by a tunnel.

The proposed clause was negatived, and on the suggestion of the
Committee a second clause, to the effect that it should not be
lawful for the Polloc and Govan Railway to connect with, or to
convey any traffic from, the Clydesdale Junction Railway until the
consent in writing had been obtained from the Board of Trade, was
prepared and agreed to.

Several written clauses for regulating tolls, &c., having been
introduced, the remaining clauses were passed, and the Bill was
ordered to be reported.

The clauses of the Caledonian Railway Bill were then proceeded
with, and after a few trivial alterations had been inserted, were all
agreed to.

Mutual congratulations having passed between the Committee
and the various counsel, the Committee broke up, after having been
assiduously engaged, during a period extending over six weeks, in
the consideration of the important and intricate schemes comprised
in the group which had been referred to them, and which had
involved in the investigation the examination of upwards of two
hundred witnesses.

GROUP EE.
SCOTTISH MIDLAND ZUTICTION.

The Committee sat at twelve o'clock to-day, Mr. Baring, chair-
man. The examination of witnesses was resumed.

Mr. Blackadder, surveyor, deposed that the amount of land re-
quired to be taken for the line was 214 acres, 2 roods, and 6 poles ;
in value, 32,2421. 17s. 10d. The district of country through
which the railway passed was very favourable, and the inhabitants
generally were favourable to it.
Mr. P. Wallace, a member of the Perth Town Council, and an
extensive coach-builder, gave evidence as to the traffic between that
town and Forfar.

Mr. Jack, of Dunkeld, was next examined. This line of
railway as far as it went would be of great benefit to that
town and district. There were extensive slate quarries
in Dunkeld, large portions of which were at present carted
in the direction of Perth. The railway would afford
great accommodation to this traffic. The whiskey trade was also
an important one in the district. There were fourteen distilleries,
that made about 300 gallons weekly, or in weight 100 tons. These
distilleries consumed about 3,000 tons of coal annually. A great
portion of coal was likewise used in the town and surrounding
country. He had no doubt all these coals would be brought from
Perth along the railway to Stanley, and from thence carted to
Dunkeld ; at present they were carted from Perth. Carts could
now only bring a load once a day; with the railway they would be
able to bring two from Stanley. Wool and timber were two other
branches of traffic. The forest of Athol alone extended to 14,000
acres. The Marquis of Breadalbane and other proprietors had
likewise large forests, from all of which great quantities of timber
were annually sent away. He knew Blairgowric very well.
There were large markets and fairs held there, from which the
number of fat cattle sent to the south every year was on an average
2,000.

Mr. J. Hodson Anderson, corn merchant in Dundee, said he was
well.acquainted with the district of Strathmore. It was considered
the finest district in Scotland for barley and oats. He purchased
in Cupar Angus and its neighbourhood about 3,300 quarters an-
nually. He did considerable business at Glasgow, which was
an excellent market fur barley. The sale for that ar.
ticle in Glasgow was very great, as the distillers from
Campbeltown and the west of Scotland made their purchases
there. Were the railway formed, it would be of great service to
his business, if the rates were such as the company, he had
no doubt, would see it their interest to fix.

Mr. Nicholson, formerly manager of the Dundee and Newtyle
Railway, deposed that that line was a very imperfect cne, having
been farmed upon the principle of the old tram roads before the
present railroads were thought of. Imperfect as it was,
and with bad gradients and inclined planes, the an.
innual income of it, taking an average of three years, was
7,3281. Of this 2,6511. was for passengers, amounting in each
year to 59,2161. The passengers that travelled along the New.
tyle and Cupar Angus, taking an average of three years, were
20,985, and for the Newtyle and Glammis 13,328. The receipts
from both lines were 1,804/. The two last lines were those pro-
posed to be incorporated in the line under the consideration of the
Committee.

Mr. Errington, civil engineer, was examined as to the nature of
the works. The steepest gradient was one in 693. The sum of
300,0001. was, in his opinion, amply sufficient for all the purposes
of construction. The working expenses he estimated at 45 per
cent., but if the line was worked, as had been named by the Scottish
Central lin., this amount would be very much reduced.
This witness was subjected to a close cross-examination on be-
half of the Duke of Athol, the Earl of Mansfield, and Lady Wil.
loughby D'Eresby, all of whom had petitioned against the Bill.

This closed the case for the Scottish Midland Sill.

The Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock tomorrow.

GROUP F.
BROAD AND NARROW GAUGES.

The Committee met again at twelve o'clock this day, and soon
after the Hon. Members had taken their seats the room was ordered
to be cleared.

It may be said that in no other railway case during the
session was so much interest manifested. The passages
leading to the door of the Committee room were be.
sieged, and it is not too much to say that hope and fear were
marked on the countenance of each person. Stockbrokers and
dealers in shares were standing in groups, discussing the probable
result, and others were making bets on the success of either Com-
pany with as much cool certainty as if they had found the key
to the minds of the Committee. The speculation was in favour of
the Great Western, though upon what grounds it was difficuit to
imagine, save that the London and Birmingham had gone down
in the share market. The whole mystery will in a short period be
explained and made visible, to the no small satisfaction
of some, and vice versa, to the great joy of others. Express horses
from the rival Railway Companies were in waiting in Palace-yard,
to convey the decision to the London and Birmingham station, so
as to run an express train to Liverpool for the information of the
share market there.

It is thought the Committee will not decide to-day, but from
their anxiety to bring the matter to an end, there is but little
doubt of their declaring for one side or the other this day, though
it may be too late in the evening for speculation.
At ten minutes past three the parties were called in and informed
by the Chairman that he had to announce to the parties on both
sides that the Committee had decided that the preamble of the Bill
for the

."`”IririCIPTON, AND ITS BRANCHES,

was proved; and also that the preamble of the

OXI"ORD .LIND RUGBY RAILWAY BILL
was proved; and that the preambles of the
DUDLEY AND 'WORCESTER,
THE DUDLEY AND SLEDGLEY,

and the
lIIRMINGELAWL AND GLOUCESTEIZ rEvx.a.

TION

can vourh for its accuracy. Instead of 11 acres, the usual rate per
mile, 12 acres had been set down in the estimates for the pre-
sent line.

This having closed the case for the promoters of the Direct Nor-
wich line,
Mr. ANDREWS, Q.C., proceeded to *pen the case of the Norwich
and Brandon line, and made a preliminary objection to the oppo.
sition of the Eastern Counties Extension Railway, the East Dere-
ham and Lynn branch, landowners on either line, and the inhabi-
tants of the town of King's Lynn. The Committee, however,
having admitted the right of the various parties to oppose, at the
same time recommending that the conflicting interests should
merge their claims into one specific case, the Learned Counsel
briefly detailed the main features of the Bill. Its first project was
to embrace the town of Thetford, the branch in that direction
requiring no additional expense above the sum originally estimated
for the independent line. The second scheme was the construction
of the line from Wyndham to East Dereham, going direct across to
London, and affording considerable undeniable facilities to the vast
traffic in those districts. The next part of the project, wholly un-
connected with the preceding propositions, was the line from At-
tleborough to Diss, comprising a distance of ten milts, at an expense
of 100,0001., and as Disc was one of the largest corn growing dis -
tricts in the country, whose produce could now obtain no other outlet
but by Norwich, the advantages of a line connecting such
an important locality with the midland manufacturing districts, as
well as the vast consuming districts of the south, were as palpable
as they were considerable. On all these combined grounds, there-
fore, he demanded of the Committee a preference to the Bill of the
Norwich and Bandon line, rather than to undefined and un-
intelligible schemes.

W. J. Gidney, examined by Mr. GIRDEN—Is an ironmonger
and general merchant of Dereham, at which town there is a con-
siderable traffic, but materially crippled by the want of communi.
cation. The present communication from Birmingham to Dere.
ham is by Hull, Lynn, and Yarmouth, including a great deal of
water navigation and eighteen miles of land carriage, at
a cost of 555. per ton. A railway would effect a
saving of two-thirds, The expense of bringing iron from Yar-
mouth to Norwich is Is. 6d. to 2s. Gd. per ton cartage from
the terminus to Norwich, 2s. 6d. per ton, and 10s, per ton
additional from Norwich to Dereham. Remembers meetings at the
latter town some short time since to discuss the merits of the rival lines.
The feeling was almost unanimous in favour of the line to Windham
The population within fourteen miles round, and even as far as'
Disc, came to the Dereham market. Taking both the import and
export trade into consideration, he conceives the line to Windham
far superior, in every respect, to that directly to Norwich.
inasmuch as the former affords a readier access to the metropolis.
The price of coals at Dereham is 40s. a ton, and gas, which is now
12s. 6d. per thousand cubic feet, is materially enhanced in value
by the high rate of coals. The feeling of the farmers is decidedly
in favour of the Dereham and Windham branch.
Cross-examined by Mr. CHAMBERS—The trade at Norwich is
considerable, and a great competition and consequent low prices
exists in that town. There were two meetings at Dereham, but
does not remember resolutions against the Dereham and Windham
line being made by Lord Baring. Three-fourths of the produce of
the former town is not purchased by Norwich dealers.
Mr. John Reeve, examined by Mr. ANDREWS, Q.C.—ls a general
merchant at Dereham, dealing in seed, wool, wine, and spirits. In
the carriage of wool speedy transit is of great importance, as in
warm weather it shrinks, and thus loses considerably in weight.
It is a great advantage to obtain a speedy change of market.
The wool exported to France passes through London. He
asnttally makes up about 6,000 or 10,000 tods of wool. At
Swaffham and Wakeham there are also two other extensive
woolen-dealers, to both of whom railssay communication would be
desirable. Changes in the transit of corn and seeds are very in-
jurious, and therefore a transfer of such articles from one train
to another is decidedly objectionable. Mr. Blake was present
at the meeting of the inhabitants of Dereham, and instructed a
Mr. Bush to introduce the East Dereham and Windham scheme
to the public, and advocate its advantages.
Cross-examined by Mr. CsLVERT—Is perfectly sure that Mr.
Blake attended the meeting in the capacity of promoter of the line
through Windham.

Mr. CHAMBERS commenced a cross-examination of this witness,
but the Committee unanimously considering it irrelevant, he was
stopped, and the evidence rejected.

Formal proof was then given of the assents and dissents, the
traffic and distance tables, and the Commiitte ajourned.

GROUP KK.
xavr.nrooli awn EITE.Y LINE.

Bills were not proved.
The Chairman will report accordingly.
The announcement was received with loud cheering.
The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock te.morrow. •

The Committee resumed at the usual hour.

Mr. John Turner was the first witness called. He is a native of
Haywood, 8 miles from Bury. Haywood contained a population
of 15,000 persons. The following was a statement of the amount
of goods annually brought into Haywood from Liverpool :—Cotton,
8,506 tens; coals for manufacturing purposes, 71,101 ; flour, 261;
iron and lead, 1,720; timber, 1,000; groceries, 80; potatoes, 936;
stone, 400 ; cannel, 15,000 ; coal for domestic purposes, 15,600.
The whole amount being 101,304 tons of commodities annually
imported from Liverpo,,l into Haywood. The present price of
carriage was Its. Bd. from Liverpool ; by the projected line it
would be only 9s. 3d., as they would carry them at 3d. per ton per
mile, which would be the maximum price. This would afford an
annual saving to the people of Wigan of 7,8501. 15s. in respect to
coal, and in cotton of 1,027/. 16s. 2d., the coal for domestic pur-
poses 7801., in sundries 537/. 101., in agricultural produce 2341.
and by carriage 634/., by the greater cheapness which they would ob-
tain produce through the new line. The whole saving to the people
of Wigan by the projected line would be 11,0241. Is. 2d. yearly.
Mr. William Pearce, superintending agent to the Earl of Bal.
carras at the Wigan coal mines, stated that he bad been thirteen
years in his Lordship's employment. Lord Balcarras was the
largest coal-mine proprietor in that district. He raised a large
quantity of cannel coal. Lord Belcarras employed 1,000 colliers,
and had engines of 450 horse power. The quantity of tons
raised by his Lordship annually was 200,000. Ihe cannel coal was
sent to Bolton, Bury, Haywood, Middleton, Rochdale, Ashton,
and Oldham. Coal was sent thence to all parts of South Lanca-
shire and North Cheshire. There was a large number of collieries
around Wigan at which there were annually raised 1,500,000
tons of coal. Had seen the plans and sections of the Liverpool
and Bury Railway; knew the neighbourhood through which it
would pass. Was therefore enabled to say that the line would
pass through the most productive parts of the Wigan coalfields. A
large portion of these coal-fields was not worked at all in conse.
quence of their remoteness from any mode of transit. There were
60 1-5 square miles of coal-fields through which no line passed,
or 38,528 acres, or 1,186,341 acres of one foot thick of coal.
The whole district of coal-fields, calculating in this way, would
supply 15,000,000 of tons after supplying the immediate neighbour-
hood. He had not taissn_insc, calegleijoiLaa,vl,p4,l,/jayidwirmsdifty,
from those coal mines was 22,530 k tons. The coal imported into
Liverpool annually was 1,183,844 tons. The coal fields in
question would last for 1,267 years—in effect they were
inexhaustible. The average export was 109,435 tons from
Liverpool. The export from Liverpool had been of late years
decreasing, not only from the higher price of coal but from the
duty. The present mode of transit by the Leeds and Liverpool
Canal cost 3s. 7 d. per ton. The people of Liverpool would save
in coal for home consumption by the projected line 107,4441.; for
exportation 17,3271. anually. Thus the whole yearly saving
to the people of Liverpool by the new line would
be 124,7711. The coals for export from Liverpool would
iu his opinion, increase to 404,927 toes annually from the superior
facility, this would be a saving of 30,3691. 10s. 6d. Was aware
that parties would enter into a contract to open new mines if the
projected line were opened. Bolton consumed of coal annual:),
6.614 tons, five.sixths of which, would be carried from
Wigan by the projected line, or 5,512 tons, which, paying
3d. per ton per mile on the projected line, would pay
the railway 2061. 14s. The carriage of other coal to
Belton from Wigan would average annually 4351. 6s. The witness
went into calculations showing that the general coal traffic on the
projected line would be 71,776/. Th,,oght the superior facilities
which the new line would afford would lessen the price of coal so
much that they would be largely exported to Ireland and other
places. Coal would, if cheaper, be used as ballast.
Cross-examined—Was a member of the Committee of the pro-
posed railway. The great body of coal lay rather to the east of
Wigan. On the existing line the gradients were, in his opinion,
better than on the proposed line.
This witness was cross-examined at greut length, respecting the
precise situation of the coal-mines, and their contiguity or distance
from the proposed line. The evidence was of no public interest.
Mr. William Ormanby—Was:principal bookkeper at the colleries
of the Earl of Balcarras. In three years 2,300 tons of coals, be-
longing to the Earl of Balcarras, had been pilfered in the transit of
the coal from Wigan along the Leeds and Liverpool Canal. This
witness confirmed the evidence of the preceding one.
Mr. William Mercer, lived at Newton.in.the-hulls, and was
agent to Mr. Leigh. Had been educated as a land-agent and col-
liery-viewer. Was acquainted with the district through which
the projected line would pass, and generally agreed in the evidence
given by the two last witnesses.
Mr. Robert Daglish, coal proprietor, near Wigan, and milling
engineer—Thought 1,500,000 tons of coal wereannually raised in the
neighbourh
eziei of Wigan. Confirmed the testimony of Messrs.
Peareand Mercer, but added no new material fact.
Mr. Thomas Lehey, agent to Mr. Bankes, mine proprietor at
Wigan, gave testimony in corroboration of Mr. Peare's. The
projected railway would save some 45 or 50 per cent, to the coal
proprietors at Wigan and its vicinity.
Captain Lewes, manager of the Manchester and Leeds line of
railway, was generally acquainted with the district proposed
to be traversed by the Liverpool and Bury line. Thought if the line
were worked out, the coals of Wigan would be carried to the West
Riding towns. Before the railway was made between Rochdale
and Oldham, two coaches a week were the only conveyance. Last
year, by the railway, there were 40,000 passengers, not including
pleasure excursions, and the number would be greater but that a
change of carriages took place on this Ilne. In his opinion, the
same kind of intercourse would occur between Wigan, Bury,
and Bolton, if the projected line were carried out.

Mr. Richard Manly Foster, superintendent to Messrs. Bromelaw
and Foster, coal-mine proprietors at Bickerstaffe—Knew but of one
line which would be beneficial to the public, and that was the
proposed line.

At the conclusion of this witness's testimony the Committee
adjourned, at four o'clock.

GROUP L.

The Committee en this group sat at twelve o'clock, and re-
sumed their inquiry on the Portsmouth Atmospheric line, Mr.
E. B. Denison in the chair, with Mr. Oswall, Lord Clive, Mr.
liyvian, and Mr. Monckton Milne present.
Before, however, entering on the main business of the day, an
application was made to the Committee to take the Horsham
branch of the Brighton line in..° consideration on Friday.
line was only eight miles long, and as all opposition t oeit had bee,
an hour.
withdrawn, the evidence not likely to e-
-.,upy more than hall

no
,"
the
The CHAIRMAN said
gnat the only consideration with the Com.
mittee was th,
... vublic benefit, anq the only obstacle was a doubt of
thea t.
I-I be Occupied to the detriment of the line they
d nir,;w which,
,d co(r)lusideration,
asnstur wrance of the Counsel for the line that he would pledge
himself that the evidence should not occupy more than half an hour,
the Committee' undertook to take the Horsham Branch on Friday
afternoon, at three o'clock,

Mr. George Hillyer was then called by. Mr. RAWLINSON, 011
behalf of the Corporation of Portsmouth. He stated that he was a
miller and coal-merchant at Hemsworth and Havant. He sent
about 12,600 tons of coals to the interior, at the rate if
eightpence to lenience per ton per mile, making up to Petersfield
from eight shillings to ten shilling per ton. He knew the lime.
works of Mr. Seward at Buxter-hill, and the quantity of lime sent
down to Portsmouth was very considerable. There were 27 mills
in that neighbourhood, which could grind from 1,800 to 3,000
quarters weekly, and the u eight of corn amt flour carried to and
Crum those mills was probably 200 to 250 tons a week.
To the cross-exam nation by Mr. M. SMITH, witness stated that
from 1,500 to 2,000 tons of coals were sent from Hemsworth to
Petersfield, which contained about 2,000 inhab:tatits. About 2,000
tons of timber were exported to Sunderland, Swansea, and other '
places equally distant, but he could not, from his own knowledge,
say whether the Guildford line uent through a finer timber coun-
try, but he thought that they were about equal handed. In the Pe-
tersfield district there was the /Sear forest and the Weimer forest, but
he knew nothing of the timber on the other district. He believed
that barely hall of the corn ground in the neighbourhood of Mid-
hurst and Petersfield came from Chichester market.
To the re-examination by Mr. RAWLINSON, the witness replied
that coals were from 3*. to 4s, a ton cheaper at Henswoith than at
Chichester, as thero were no port dues, but only pilotage, to pay at
the former place.
Mr. Gale, a farmer, residing about seven miles from Petersfield,
stated that he had purchased about 2,500 quarters of oats at Ports-
mpoecitruettsrh..fi,:d tauind.h had bought more hay than any other individual in that
neighbourhood, the supply of the latter coming chiefly from about
and
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had sent three or four horses daily from Petersfield to Portsmouth.
There were three people in the neighbourhood of the former place
to whom he had sent 300 quarters of oats yearly. He named
several villages to which this railway would be a great convenience,

TAE S UN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING., JUNE 4, 1845

but some of those places were as much as seven miles from the line
of railway.

To the inquiry of Mr. OSWALD, the witness stated that ,coals
were about the same price as in London.

To the inquiry of Mr. M. MILNE, the witness stated that the
trade in the Petersfield line had very much declined since the
formation of the South-Western Railway.
Sir W. Jolliffe, M.P., stated he resided at Merstham, in
Surrey, and had considerable property in and about Petersfield, and
was Lord of the Manor of that place. The Valley of Petersfield
was, in his opinion, as productive as any part of the county,
and he thought that this line of railway was absolutely indispens-
able to the prosperity of the county. Hundreds of horses
had disappeared from the country since the formation of the South.
Western line. He was anxious for this line, as it would open the
communication with Portsmouth, and buyers from Portsmouth
would have less competition in the Petersfield market than at Chi
cheater. Since the formation of the South-Western line
the means of communication had been very defective ;
in fact they had no land carriage whatever except
common cartage. He paid 10s. a ton land carriage
for all the coals which he consumed. There was a good deal of
timber growing about Petersfield, especially oak, fit for ship, build-
ing. The advantage of railway communication, therefore, with
Portsmouth, was self-evident. Some very good hops were also
grown in the neighbourhood, which they were now obliged to send
to Weyhill, which, if this railway ware formed, they coeld
send to the Borough market. The country b. tween
Petersfield and Godalming was traversed by several sterile hill
ranges, the moat prominent of which was the Devil's Dyke.
Large plantations of oak had been made by the Government during
the- last fifty years about Petersfield. He had himself sold con-
siderable quantities of timber this year, but many of the trees had
been cut down, and the new wood would not be ready for
cutting for nearly fifty years to come, except for tillers and
saplings. He was Member for Petersfield, which by the Reform
Bill had been put into schedule B, and he had taken a large interest
in the atmospheric line, and had become a Director, because he
thought not only that the district would be greatly bepefitted, but
because upon it the very existence and the whole prosper ity of Pe-
tersfielddepended. He felt assured that the Company was a bona
fide Company, and, if the Committee passed the preamble, and Par-
liament gave them an Act, the line would most certainly be made.
The Atmospheric line was the first that had been projected, and
he (Sir William) thought that he had heard of it some months be.
fore the South-Western line had been at all spoken of in public.
Certainly the population in that district were unanimously in its
favour.

Mr. Chace, a farmer, residing within about five miles of Peters.
field, who, in addition to a farm on his own hands, also managed
2,000 acres for Sir Harry Featherstone—The land was exceedingly
good for pasture, and he had about 300 sheep on his own farm, and
there were from 1,400 to 1,500 on Sir H. Featherstone's ground.
Harry had also another farm, where there were about 1,200
sheep. He had about 700 ewes which lambed, and, together, about
240 to 250 beasts of the best quality, fed on the farms. They
sent a good many:calves to London, the cost being about ss. each for
calves, and Is. 9d. for lambs. He had attended the market at
Chichester, which was about fourteen miles distant, since he was
sixteen ears of age, and it was attended by people from all round
the country. There were two great stock fairs in I'etersfield in the
year, which were by far the greatest fairs in the neighbourhood.
There was also a considerable quantity of game sent up to London
during ti.e existence of the coaching system, especially during the
early part of the season.

®Mr. Parsons, a resident at Petersfield, confirmed the testimony of
the other witnesses as to the abstraction of the trade.

Mr. King, of Buriion, stated that he held 1,100 acres in one
farm and '240 in another, and that the whole of the country round
Petersfield was admirably adapted for feeding stock, and was very
rich in all kinds of agricultural produce.
Mr. Munday, a cattle-dealer, residing within two miles of
Petersfield, stated that he had about 2,300 sheep on his own
lands, and purchased 500 to 600 beasts, and from 10,000 to 12,000
sheep yearly. The land throughout the whole district was ex-
ceedingly good for grazing, and the stock was of the very finest
description. He bad himself obtained several prizes for show
cattle, as had also some of his neighbours, and he believed that
there were at least 1,000 beasts fatted every year in the valley of
Petersfield. The cost of conveying sheep to market was 9d. a head
to Vauxhall, and 2d. from there to Smithfield. The expense of
getting beasts to that market was from Ss. to I Is. a head, and this
railway would be a very great advantage. This witness also testi-
fied to the growth of a considerable quantity of timber in the
district.

Mr. Hallam, a butcher at Calmore, said he had slaughtered be-
tween 800 and I,ooosheep since February last, and sent most of
the carcases to London, at a cost of 2s. 4d. a cwt. During the
existence of the coaching system they had sent their meat for
2 %d. a stone, and at present they were suffering much from the
distance of the railway.
Mr. Canley stated that he and his father had farmed the tolls of
Petersfield market for more than 50 years, and that the number of
sheep penned at the December fair was from 7,000 to 10,000, be
sides which there were about 600 or 700 beasts. He was also an
auctioneer. Had sold 2,663 oak trees at 4/. a load this year
for Sir W. dolliffe, but the price would have been at least 1/. a load
higher If they had had any good conveyance to the coast, and the
country was altogether well wooded.

Mr. S. Chace, a farmer at Steep, north of Pctersfield, confirmed
the previous witness as to the quality of the land, and stated that
there was as good malting barley grown in the neighbourhood as
anywhere in the country. He also dealt in provisions, and had
paid 2001. a year for carriage for the last thirty-eight years.
Mr. Hearsay, a farmer in the neighbourhood of Lisa, which was
a little farther up the line, gave similar testimony, and stated that
a farm had lately been sold in that neighbourhood at 501. an acre.
Mr. Simmons, a paper-maker and coal-merchant at Haslemere,
stated that there were fifteen corn-mills and seven paper-mills near
that place, and that the formation of the proposed railway would
reduce the price of coals nearly 15s. a ton. Beside this paper and corn
business, there was also a large turnery in the town, the wood
about the place being well adapted for that purpose. There was
also a manufactory of pyroligneous acid and of naptha. The ter-
minus at London.bridge was decidedly the best, and the formation
of the railway would save him at least 3001. a year in carriage,
and to another firm there would be a saving of double that amount.
The Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow.

GROUP LL.
THE LONDON AND SOUTH-WESTERN
RAILWAY EXTENSION.

This Committee sat at twelve o'clock this morning, and pro-
ceeded to hear the evidence of Mr. Bennett and Mr. Deacon, who
distant front
Westminster, Waterloo, and Hungerford-bridges.
The CHAIRMAN said it was the desire of the Committee to know
whether there were any witnesses to prove that the extension
would be advantageous to the inhabitants of the west end of the
town; there was no doubt-that it would be beneficial to those
who resided near the bridges in question.

Mr. SMIRKS said that they had already shown that it would be
favourable to the city of London. He wished that the Committee
would adjourn till to-morrow, when he would be able to produce
the necessary evidence.

Mr. M. eRAMBERS suggested that the Counsel on the opposite
side should produce evidence with respect to the traffic tables.
Mr. SMIRK& said that, if he thought that the branch of the lino
which had been before the Committee would have taken so short a
time, he would have been able to produce evidence on that point, but
the principal witness was at present under examination before
another Committee.

The CHAIRMAN wished to be certain that the evidence would be
ready to morrow if they did adjourn.
Mr. Salle KE assured the Committee that it would.
After a short discussion, the Committee adjourned to twelve
o'clock to-morrow.

GROUP N.
cosmixfAzzl?,ll.XLV7AY.

At the sitting of the Committee, the case of the petitioner was
proceeded with.

Mr. R. T. Hall, a surveyor in Cornwall, some time an
assistant to Mr. Thomas, the petitioner. He said, in No-
vember last, he was occupied for some time, in conjunction with
Mr. Thomas, in surveying the central line, indicated on the map
by a red line. On that portion of the line, at Halgarven and west-
ward to Falmouth, there were no curves of less radius than
chains, and that there were only two of a radius of 30. The ge-
neral curves on this part of the line were about three quarters of a
mile. No roads from Halgarven to Falmouth were crossed on a
level.

Mr. Rowe said it was with much pleasure that he had to inform
; the Committee that, after a consultation with his client, and after
• considering the great body of important evidence which he had
I offered for the last two days, it was not his intention to call any
additional witnesses, and he was prepared then to address the Com-
mittee against the preamble of the Rill. The Learned Gentleman
then addressed the Committee on behalf of the petitioner. Mr.
Thomas was an honest man. He might not be an engineer of the
old school, but that was no argument against his consistency, and
his opinion was as much entitled to consideration as that of Captain
Moorsom, who, as a matter oft nurse, was most desirous to get his
scheme adopted by the Committee. He (Mr. Rowe) did not re.
present Mr. Thomas only, although he ostensibly appeared for that
gentleman, but he represented a great and important body of the
inhabitants of Cornwall, who considered that a central line would
offer far greater facilities than the coast line. He held that the
promoters of the Bill had obtained a favourable report from the
Board of Trade by false colouring, on the assumption that the
line would be worked by atmospheric traction, whereas
they had not sufficient money to construct such a
line ; and even for the construction of a double locomotive
their estimates were 300,0001. below the sum which would be
necessary. Captain Moorsom had stated that the crossing of the
Hamoase could be effected in a minute, while Mr. Stevenson, Mr.
Rendell, and other scientific gentlemen whom he had called before
them, had shown that such an opinion *as abstad, as the passage
' could not be accomplished in less than half an hour, and that
they would rather go several miles round than cross the Hamoase
by means of a floating bridge. The electrical telegraph could not
be properly or safely laid down. Then the drawbridge over the
Penryn.creek, which was navigated by large Bliin=i Wletild Only be
four feet and a half high at high-Water, And if the Admiralty did
not consent to the ermstrUetion of the bridge, a daneeroee pier;
projecting a considerable distance into the ei:o.,i, '.;7as to be
....,
constructed. Why; what ieould be greater obstacles to
the free passage or tht Shipping
than such a bridge and such a pier ?
A line might nave been constructed from Plymouth to Falmouth
in
a more northern tiirettion, avoiding the Hamoase alto-
gether, end offering greater accommodation to the nutlet in
Ithose districts than the toast line toiall. 1-ire eulogised
the Central line, and referred to the small obstacles
vhich it Would have to encounter in comparison with the proposed
line; that the gr ,ients and curves on the one were moderate and
practicable, whilst on t..e other they were not only imprac-
ticable, but dangerous in every sense—opinions substantiated
by the evidence of gentlemen well competent to judge—not
only of engineers, but of Members of Parliament, and persons of
high standing and inlluenee in the county. He concluded by call.
ing upon the Committee to reject the preamble of the Bill, as its
adoption would, in a political, commercial, and social view, be most
injurious to the county of Cornwall.
Mr. Sergeant KINOLAKE said the real nueStion reaS; whether
Cornwall was to have a railway
or not, and he held that If the
proposed scheme were not carried out the county would not have a
railway at all. Looking to the south coast of Cornwall—to the
wants of the noising interests—to the wrote of the inhabitants of
Liskeard, St. Austel, Truro —the line laid dorm by Captaih
Moorsom, whom his Learned Friend had most unjustly caltirh-
niated, was the one which the inhabitants of Cornwall required.
No evidence on which sissy could depend, had been adduced
to show that the unknown line advocated by Mr.
Thomas was practicable. No levels or sections had been
properly taken. Were the Committee setisfied, then, that suffi-
cient evid: eee had been adduced to prove that that line was a
better line i e.,11 the one proposed? They had not had sufficient
evidence to show that that line could be properly constructed ; and
in his opinion It had been improperly
intruded on the Cots.mittee. If they had not the gradients complained of on the
proposed, line they would be compelled to tunnel to a great extent,
and no line could be constructed on account of the expense; but in
a county like Cornwall—a county which undulated more than
many other counties—such gradients could not be avoided. Mr,
Stevenson's dictum with respect to the rate of speed
on the line was most exaggerated. Somehow or other
engineers were actuated by a strong feeling of hostility towards
each other, and were apt to exaggerate when giving evidence
before Committees. Mr. Stevenson was a most suspicious witness.
The Learned Counsel then referred to the report of the Board of
Trade to show that they had not been imposed upon, and had con.
sequently given a preference to the coact line ever the central one. The
Board of Trade considered that the central line was impracticable
on account of its expense, that the gradients and curves on the
coast line were not objectionable for an atmospheric line, and that
with ordinary locomotive power they would not be dangerous ;
that on public grounds they could not report in favour of the
central, but saw no reason why they should not report in favour
of the coast line and recommend it for the sanction of Parliament.
It was true in the sections one gradient had been put down as 1 in
60 whilst it should have been 1 in 40. Upon that solitary lac this

Learned Friend had grounded the assertion that the favourablere-
port of the Board of Trade had been obtained by misrepresentation..
The other deep gradient was at the Penryn station, and could not
be dangerous, as the carriages, as a matter of couse, did not run at
the top of their speed, but were almost stationary. The other
steep gradient was on the Bodmin branch, and the objection there-
fore could not apply to the main line. Then the Hamoaze would
be crossed on a plan which would be perfectly safe. No deception
could have been practised by either Mr. Brunel or Captain Moor-
corn as it was a special prevision in the agreement, between
the Great Western and the other companies who had agreed to
take shares to the amount of 250,0001. in the Company, that the
estimates should be made with a view to atmospheric or locomo-
tive traction. The estimates too were not fallacies. He con-
cluded by contending that the promoters had proved their case ;
that taking into consideration that no landowner opposed it, with
the exception of Mr. Thomas, whose opposition arose from his
being interested in another line, he submitted, therefore, that
they must report in favour of the preamble.