The Sun.
London, England, 1829-05-05 00:00:00

MILITIA ESTIMATES.

The Order of the Day for the House resolving itself into
a Committee of Supply was then read.
Mr. HUME wished to know from the Chancellor of the
Exchequer whether it was the intention of Government to
,liaprse of part of Somerset-house for the purpose of build-
i ig a college.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it
certainly was the intention of Government' to assign the
eastern'aite of Somerset-house for the erection of a college,
on condition that the front should be built in uniformity
with the rest of the building.
Mr. HUMltasked-, whether Government had abandoned
the idea of consolidating the 'public office;
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
that the Speaker do leave the chair. -
Mr. HUME as he understood the attention of the Com-
mittee of Supply Was to be called to the Militia Estimates,
would say a few words on the subject. He had long
doubted the propriety of calling out the militia at all. In
ISIS he proposed to get rid of the militia, but he found
the feeling of the House decidedly against him. Since that
perinil the militia-had cost the country 4,016,0001. Had
°ley performed any services equivalent to that expenee ?
1 objected not only to the expense, but to the manner in
which the militia "was raised. He could not see why Mem-
hers of Parlia.urnnt should be exempted from the ballot any
snore than the working classes. Then it was most unfair
to compel a por.r man to pay the same fine which was im-
posed on the rich.
Colonel SIBTHORPE said, it was admitted by those
best acquainted with the service, that tke militia was the
eery best nursery for the regular force. He, therefore,
ti eught the Militia Bill which had been introduced most
oppressive and unjust in its operation on men who had long
eavetl the ii country faithfully.
C donel WOOD said, on the most pressing occasions
during the war, the services of the militia had been most
effective. The Hon. Member was quite mistaken in sup-
posing. that there were so many exceptions from the liabi-
lity to the ballot as be had stated ; for if a Member of
Parliament were ballotted he must serve, or find a substi-
tute, as well as any other man in the country.
Mr. PEEL could not bring himself to enter into a se-
rious discussion on a subject introduced as the Hon. Mem-
ber had introduced this. The Hon. Member was quite
mistoken in supposing that his privilege as a Member of
Parliament would protect him from the ballot. He (Mr.
Peel) feared that the only exemption the Hon. Member
could claim must be on account of age—(a laugh)—for he
knew no ether.
Mr. HUME could assure the Right Hon. Gent. that he
was quite serious on the subject, though he had laughed at
his joke about the supposed ground of his exemption, He
did not think he was quite so venerable as to have that
claim.—(Same Members here said " forty-five.)—(A
laugh.)—lf that were the age, he feared he must admit
the exemption.
The motion was then agreed to, and the Speaker having
left the Chair, the House went into the
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Sir H. HARDINGE said, it was not necessary to de-
tain the Committee at any length in stating the particulars
of the estimates. The whole amounted to 328,534/., ex-
clusive of 1,418/. for out pensions for the yeomanry staff.
The amount last year was 283,198/, but the apparent in-
crease this year arose from having the sum of 71,000/. for
the pay of militia sergeants and for local militia transferred
from the army accounts. These being set off against the
sum of last year's estimate, would make a diminution of
about 26,0001., which added to the saving from the re-
duction of a number of officers and non •commissioned
officers, would make after this year a permanent saving of
61,000/. The whole sum of the expense would be very
different from the 400,0001. at which the Hon. Member
for Montrose put it. There was, it was true, upwards of
300,0001. for the whole estimate, but then that arose from
the large force kept up during the war, and the conse-
quently large sum in allowance for disembodied militia.
The officers received a larger allowance in proportion to their
length of service than they could have expected at the time
they were embodied. To those officers (lieutenants) who
had served three years, there would be an allowance of 3s.
per day, and those who served for a shorter time would
receive 4s. per day for life. The paymasters had 1143 legal
claim by any Act of Parliament, but they had an equit.
able one, and would be allowed as euperannuated lieute-
nants. The adjutants would receive 75., their full pay
allowance. The sergeants of British militia would be dis-
banded, but the sergeants of Irish militia would receive,
according to the recommendations of their colonels, an
allowance of Is. per day. The corporals, who were en-
titled only to a retiring pension, of sd. per day, after 20
years' service, would receive that sum without reference to
their length of service as corporals. He would not go
into further details now, as it was intended to revise the
whole of the Militia Acts, and to consolidate them into
one Act, which would be introduced in the next Session.
He concluded by moving, that the sum of 247,304/. 151.
7d. be granted for the charge of disembodied militia for
the year 1829
Colonel SIBTHORPE complained that the quarter-
masters, who were a most active and deserving set of men
had been unfairly dealt with in the proposed regulations.
Mr. HUME, though he objected to the whole establish-
ment of the militia, did not object to the clear and candid
manner in which it had been brought forward by the Hon.
and Gallant Officer. He was sorry the Hon. Member for
Limerick (Mr. S. Rice) was not in his place on this occa-
sion, as it was to him, while in office, they were indebted
for some of the intended alterations, and he regretted that
the Hon. Member did not continue long enough in office
to complete them. He contended that the House had as
much right to interfere with the management of the
militia, as with that of the regular army, inasmuch as
both descriptions of force were created by Act of Parlia-
ment. A Gallant Colonel on the other side of the House
had stated, that a militia force was necessary, because we
had at present only four regiments of regular troops at
at home. Now, if we had no more than four regiments
at home at present, he must confess his inability to under-
stand the accounts laid upon the table. From those ac-
counts it appeared that we had 47,000 men employed in
England and Ireland, and he did not conceive that such a
number was formed into four regiments only. What was
the duty which the militia had performed since the termi-
nation of the war ? From certain reterne which he had
moved for, and which bad been laid upon the table by the
late Secretary at War, he found that since the peace the
country had only been benefitted by the service of seven of
these corps, though it had expended nearly 4,000,000/. in
supporting them. He had no objection to the present
grant; for, if the system were to be continued, the sum
now proposed was as reasonable as it possibly could be,
Colonel WO DD said, that he had not defended the keep.
ing up of the rnilitia in time of peace, on account of the
services which it had rendered the country since the close
of the war, but on account of the necessity of having it id
a state of preparation in case of the sudden breaking out
of a war. He had never said that we had only four regi-
ments of regular troops at home. He had said, that we
had only four complete regiments of regular troops in
England.
Sir G. PHILLIPS thought there was considerable
hardship in the proposed reduction of the paymasters of
militia, especially as they were appointed to what was
called by various Acts of Parliament the permanent staff
o° the militia.
Sir 11. I lARDINGE said, that the paymaster to a my
litia regiment was always a lieutenant; so that on the dis-
embodying of the regiment to which he belonged, he re-
tired as a lieutenant, and was entitled to receive an allow-
ance accordingly. But though the paymaster of militia
had no legal claim to a retired allowance, he (Sir H Her-
(huge) thought that he had in some cases an equitable
claim. He therefore was desirous to place the paymasters
in the same situation with the surgeons and quartermas-
ters of militia, and had consequently recommended that
they should receive certain rates of retired allowance in
certain cases. He had drawn a broad line of distinction,
giving rates to those paymasters who had been in service
during the war, and refusing them to those who had not.
Mr. HUME thought that the statement which the
gallant officer had just made was perfectly satisfactory,
He observed that during the last year an expense of
24,000/. had been incurred for the subdivision meetings
and for the lists for ballot. He wished to know to what
extent this expense would run this year, now that the bal-
loting lists were to be discontinued?
Sir H. HARDINGE supposed that not more than
4,004)/ would be expended on this head during the next

year.
The grant was then agreed to, as were two other grants
.one for SI I 9s. I I for the disembodied Militia

of. Ireland, the otlier for 1,483/. 4s. 9d. for the charge of
the reduced allowances to the yeomanry for the current
year, after a 'short 'conversation between Mr. Hulls and
Fir H. lIAIMINGE. "

The House then resumed, and the report was ordered
to be received to-morrow.