Star.
London, England, 1830-06-22 00:00:00

SpAND IMPROVEMENTS.

Mr. HOBHOUSE presented a petition from 900 of the most re-
spectable inhabitants of St. Martin's, respecting the improvements
now in progress in Westminter, particularly in the Strand. They
resided in the Stetted and its neighbourhood They were in favour
of the improvement., bet th:y would not have prayed for them,
could they have imagined that the alteration would have proceeded
so tardily, and therefore so ruinously. It had been promised by
the Office of the Woods and Forests, that the works should pro.
ceed nearly as rapidly as the inhabitants and petitioners pleased.—
That promise had not been kept—many houses were left in an iso.
lated state, while others were exposed to the threatened falls of shells
of houses, and the trade of many of the petitioners had left them in
consequence of the rerra.rination and the obstruction of the streets.
He had before been told—and perhaps it would be repeated—that
there was not money enough in the office to carry on the improve-
ments with greater rapidity; but he could not but think that the
petitioners ought no: to be placed in a worse situation titan they
would have been bad the alterations been undertaken by private in.
dividuals. The petitioners wished to know what course they should
pursue ; they had nppl6 d to the Office of Woods and Forests, and
to the noble lord (Lowther), and now they applied to the house,
which he feared in this ease was only relying upon a broken teed.
If something were net done, man: of the petittonets would be en.
tirely ruined.
Lord LOWTHER submitted that the holed of woods and fo.
rests had not proceeded quite so tardily as was represented, and
added that there was not quite so much want of money as was al.
leged. There would be tat delay on that account. The ground
must be first dived. That was now done. The plans were
agreed upon ; they would be lithographed and ready for public in.
apection in a few days; anti instead of six months being passed in
such proceeding, he trusted that in six weeks the works would be
proceeding with. The buildings at the Holden-elms would not be
pulled down; there would he a delay there for some months, till
the works by Southaulmo".strom should he proceeded with, if not
completed. This d.lay was unaroitiable. The buildings near
St. Martin's church would be completed in six weeks.
Petition to be pr:.
DEATIIS AT ulEiti:A LI:oNT.

Mr. BERNAL thathelntie;;; reason to believe
that the return* ree:•n hid 4.•`4re- the hens- respecting the num-
ber of deaths on boars' the ships ut war at Sierra Leone and tie
western coast of A6i.-a. wtre v. ry incomplete. lie knew, for in-
stance, that the Nortl, had lost more men than were stated.

Sir (i. COCKBURN +.M.I there might be some error rnLes ;
he believed there was nun,: in the number+. The S) bil, now on
he► way home. had I•eer unh►althy he whtitted.
Air. DUSK ISSON p• vented a petition f the East India As-
sociation, Liverpool, at •u the West India Sugar Duties, against
the proposed alteration.
Ordered to be printed.
The Kve Harbour bill was read a second lime, and ordered to be
eon:milted on the motion of Sir G. Cockburn.
Bitekle:sEvate bill was read a mond

Sir 0. CLARK presented petitions from the county of Mid.
Lothian. the Chamber of Commerce there, Sce. in favour of the
Northern Roads' Bill. then movoi fur the number of proof'
gallons of proof spirits di.tillorl since &.c.—t Weird.
The further consideration of site report tin the labourers' Wages
Rill vas postponed till Ws.th.erday ucat, on the motion of Mr.
IXTTLETON.

31,. RICE presented petitions from parishes in Kilkenny against
increased stamp duties. Akosfour similar petitions from parishes
in Limerick.

SUOMI DUTIES.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCII EQUER moved that the
house revolve into a committee of ways and means.—Agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQU ER in the committee
again moved the resolutions fee continuing sugar duties, but upon a
graduated scale. When the price was 4e. lie meant the slim in the
scale to be U. 2s. instead telt. as was imericd in the printed reso-
lutions by mistake. He begged to premise, heron: the committee
went into the discussion, that lie proposed to introduce into dut bill
a similar scale of reduction as regarded East India sugars.
Mr. HUSIELSSON remarked, that the proposed alteration ef dui
sugar duties had excited • good deal of alarm amongst panisalar

, interests. The ledoetlea on peculiar or kw-priced sugars was esi
be from 1L 7s. to 1L He was prepared to contend that the altera-
tion bad not bees Blade with due reference to the colonies. The
old colonies were in the gamiest distress. and his change would
have the effect of reducing the prices of their produce, and thereby
increase their difficulthee There would be greater diffieulties io
the details of the measure—for he could not see how the right
honourable gentleman would prevent collusion and fraud. That
was so evident to practical men, he was informed, that It was
matter of astonishment that it should not have been manifest to
the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The duties were to be deter.
mined by the averages; but how could the averages' he fixed ?
He did not see how they were to he fixed so as to prevent the lowelt-
duty being tendered for the best sugars. He consider. d that the right
hon. gent. would be disappointed. in,: that the res..vue would loose
almost as much as if the seven shillings had been taken off all the
sugars.—(hear.) The practical difficulties were such that he de.
filed the right hon. gent. to show how the revenue could be pro.
•ecteel and the fair interests of the trade promoted ; how tiasinos
and frauds could be prevented. Tie whole scheme he romanced
to be impracticable. lie hail Aliso another objection to the plan—to
that of the drawback.— (hear.) The drawback was to he continued
at this pr sent amount ; what was to preys tit the drawback from
beine drawn as if on the lowest priced • nears ?_(::ear.) The plan
would create stagnation in the trade three shout tee country. It
was celculated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. that the chary...
*mild reduce the duty 400,Magll. of which 200.0001. would he
recovered by the increased consumption of the coarse sugar..
lle feared that calculation weield fail; that the increased draw_
backs would absorb what would be gained by additional consimp.
thm. I tnly think of drawbacks to encourage capons to Haniburee
and other places; they would t acne the produce (tom increased c m-
sumpt•on of coarse sugars. lie telt as strongly AS any one could
do the urgent necessity of relief. and he therefore urged the conti.
nuation of a specifec ad valorem duty. lie now submitted that re.
ditetien which was pressed by his right honourable friend (Sir. C.
Grant) last rear, and what lie had this moving pressed on the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, the teduction of the duty from 11. jo.
to 11. (Cheers.)—That would afford real relief, and without
exposing the carrying of it into effect to so many cl:fficulties. Such
reduction, it might be said, would affect the revenue to the extent
of 5100,0001. but on the other Imnd, the proposed increase of spirit
duty would Produce 450,0001. us a set off against such 500,0001. lost.
—(11r41%) If however, there were to be loss for the next three or
four months, he still was prepared to say that it was a sacrifice that
ought to be ti .4e, so urgent was the distress, and so affixting were
the various interests concerned in that trade. Something ought la
be done; there had been many promises to the West India interests,
but nothing had yet been done ; and if 259,0001. were lost by the
reduction, it would not be much as compared wi h the benefits that
would be conferred. And he could no but here observe how moth
had been lost by the owners , f estates in not allowing slaves to he
removed front one colony to another. He did not complain of that
law—he only stated the effc els ; and if the ole: colonies were to leave
off cultivating suear—the cultivation of which in many of the old
colonies was not now productive—one-tenth of the slaves would be
sufficient to work the estates. Rut what could be done with the
remaining nine-tenths ? They could neither be maioved nor email-
cipated. He must repeat, that these circumstances made a strong
claim for the West Indies; and it was not risking much, and it'
any thing were risked, it was where benefit would be produced.--
He trusted his right hon. friend (Mr. C. Grant) would renew
his proposition of last year, and propose the reduction of duty on all
sugars. It might not be the best course, but it was the best that
could now be proposed. He had to complain of the variable Ant!
uncertain conduct of the Government. it was of the niOst ruinous
consequences. They ought to digest their measures well before
they were proposed. It was impossible to proceed with the system
of expedients to meet tent difficulties. There must be some.
thing like consistency. cr sayingar
thus much, lie was not so mu. I.
stating his opinions, as the sentiments and feelings of his cons& u-
entr, who were in a ,tale of the greatest alarm. The rum trade was
to have received relief—now thee was abandoced ; and yet upon for-
mer propositions which were adopted, and were now abandoned.
large contraces Med taken place, and orders erne out to make rum.—
Now all those contracts and orders were timeless ; now they were
called on to adopt new plans regarding tobacco, spirits, and duty :
and they were not quite sure that at no distant period they should
have again to alter them. It was quite impossible that affairs could
so go on without increased difficulties and ruin. The numermic
petitions and discussions were complained of as impeding public
business; but they were the natural result of such changeful con.
duct, of such varied propositions, and of so 'mach uncertainty being
created in all the trading and mercantile classes. Ile thought the
better mode would be to reduce the duty 11. and lie could not see that
the loss ought to he put in competition with the benefits that would
be produced. He therefore called on his right hon. friend to renew
his proposLions of last year.
'The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQU ER said that, pre.
viously to replying, it would be better to hear the amended resolu-
tions, if they vete to be moved.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, as lie felt assured of the urgent neces-
sity of some relief, and also that the Chancellor of the Excliequet's
plan WAS too limited and impracticable. he should content himself
with submitting, without any farther argument, the coesideratites
of the resolutions of last year, to reduce the duty on West Ineha
sugars to 20s. per cwt. and that on East India sugar to 255. per
cwt and that sugars be admitted to be refined without duty.
The first resolution, by way of amendment, was then put, namely,
that the duty on West India and Mauritius sugars, be reduced to
205.--(Hear, hear.)
The CHANCMd.I)R of the EXCH I QUER a.id, up to
Monday last the right hoeourable gentleman (.Ir. Huakissioe)
saw norm of the objections that had since fleshed on his mind
to the present propositions of Government ; and he denied that
those objections could be fairly maintained. Ile admitted
that vacillating conduct on the part of a Government, cape.
eially in matters of trade, was prejudicial ; but the right
lion. gentleman accompanied hi. complaint with proposing further
change.—(Hear.) As to the old colonies, and the newly acquired
colonies, he could make no difference in his mind ; they entered not
into his consideration, in arranging duties. It was said, that the
plan was impracticable; but how was it that an aid valorem, ditty
on other articles hail been found to be prsc icalde ? He undersiosi.
that those who were conversant with such matters declared that el e
plan was not impracticable ; on the contrary. they %Ala that it W;.A
perfectly and completely practicable. respect to collusion
and fraud, might nut that objection be urged in all other in-
stances where ad valorem duty was implied ?—(Hear.) lie di I
not see the force of the objection to the proposed drawback ; it would
be on the coarser sugars, and it would be susceptible of clear prac-
tical application. If the lower orders of sugar came into the hands
of the refiners, the drawbacks would not be grater than at present.
He could not see the prejudicial effect urged against the plan of
reducing the duties on the lower orders of sugar, while he
retained the present rate of drawback. The objections hail
before been considered and satisfactorily removed. If mks
at the " short price," instead of the " long price." were promote i!
by his scheme, he thought no It. st India plot rietor would con'.
.
p am of that result.—(Hear, hear.)--It was for these reasons he
thought of limiting the Imes of revenue to such an amount as the
country could bear, while at the same time he benetiord the con-
sumer. and gave a more extended consumption to the article. Not
differing from his Right Honourable Friend in principle. he was
willing to etEnd relief to as great an extent as he possibly could du
so to a class of persons who were suffering from these high duties.
consistent with what he thought incumbent on him, with a view to
the personation of the revenue; for if that were rot proteetrd,
how was it poss:ble that the capeediture of the country could be
!defrayed. lie would not unit that h s resolutions were all that
! could be wished. or that they would urisfy those who desired to
have those duties reduced to Is. but he cid think that they would
afford present relief, and they went es far ae Ise could vertute to let
them go, without a risk to the ri senor, which lie would not be
justified in incurring. He trusted the House avoid give its sane
Lion to his resolutions, because he felt confident the they were best
calculated to give teller to those 'recasts which coos: required it.
Mr. Kt.ITH DOUGLAS said, that there were venom, of these
resolutions which it would be very etfficult to tarry into general
!operation, for it could only apply to a very lin.ited quantity of the
' lowest quality of sugars. The hest inelkvi a givieg relief to the
West India interests, was by making as large a reduction as posse.
ble in the amount of duty, becttesi that also ;sou d lie conterriny, a
benefit upon the whole community.
Mr. P. TIIO3IPSON said that lie could not consider the pro.
position of the right hon. genilettuul. SS 0:14: bit less truptacti-
table than those which he represented as being in that predicament.
His proposition was open to all the ohject one of an ad valoturn
duty, and many others also to which an ad raiment duty was rot
exposed. He WAS greatly mistaken if an intimation had nut been
given from the customs to the right boo. geotleman, that the details
of the measure would be found to be wholly impracticable. at all
rectos such WAS the opinion of every gentleman he had conversed
with upon the auuject. Supposing, however, the plan to be mac.
ticabk, where, he would ask, were its advantages to be found over
the plan of the hon. member for Invernes..shhe. It would press
less headily it was true than the present duty, but in what a state
would it place the Colonies which grew the better sort of sugars.
To them it would be a serious loss, which loss would be still fur.
thee aggravated, because this measure went to admit under the
educed duty the Mauritius sugar. which forumd nearly a sixth of
all that was consumed in this country. He should give his opposition
to this motion, as partial to the IS cat Indies--unjust to the East
Indies, and injurious to the community at large. He should, there.
fore, rapport the motion of his right hen friend (Mr. Huskistor..)
The vaclioa of government was injurious to trade, for doubt-
less when the producer of rum heard that a shilling duty was
to be levied on British spirits he sent out weed to send more rum
and lees molasses. In the meantime the intention of Government
alters, and a duty of sixpence is laid on rum, while the additional
duty en BlitiAli spirits was also reduced to sixpence. Who was to