The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-06 00:00:00

:sited why leave out London ? It was very true the averages
of London were higher than those of the other fifteen manu-
facturing and commercial towns. No doubt lanidoe was the
centre o specUlation ; but the fact was chiefly caussd through
the quality of the corn consumed. But it was not ne-
cessary to exclude London, for if the metropolis were
included with the other fifteen towns, the difference
in the range of prices fur a long period would be very incon-
siderable. He had eomrared the averages of the sixteen ma-
nnfacturine towns with those of the fifteen agricultural towns.
He had taken eighteen periods, having three periods in the
months of April, August, and December, for six years. Li
the years 1833, 1834, and 1835, the' averages were low ; in
the three years 1839, 1840, and 1841, the averages were high.
During the last three years, the prices in the sixteen commer-
cial towns were higher than in the fifteen agricultural ones,
though this was not universally the case. For ten periods the
averages were high in the 16 commercial towns ; in seven periods
they were higher in the agricultural ; therefore the notion of
the Hon. Member, as to the effect of including Loudon, was
visionary. He could assure the House, that the .se:ectionof
the towns had been made without the slightest referenge, direct
or indirect, to the nature of the districts in which the towns
were taken ; and these had been taken, not with any intention
on their parts of unduly influencing Vie returns ; their only
object hart been, to range over the different districts, Sc that
they might insure mums from the various markets spread
over the country.
Mr. lIA IVES said, that the Right Hon. Gentleman liad
given no answer to the statement hated made, that the nums
ber of towns selected from the districts which grew the finer
kinds of wheat was not proportioned to the number of towns
which grew wheat of an inferior quality. He repeated that
assertion; and he believed that the result of such a -system
would be unduly to lower the averages, and of course to increase
the duty. He did not, however, throw out any imputation
against the Government; and he did not mean to say that they
were influenced by any improper motives in the proposal they
had made.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL made a few observations which
were very imperfectly heard in the gallery; but he was under-
stood to say that the election of towed had been made upon the
fairest principle.
Mr. GLADSTONE explained.
Mr. VILLIERS said he could not understand why these
towns had been added. According to the Right Honourable '
Baronet opposite, searely any fraud existed, and under the old
system it had been altogether exaggerated; according to the
Bight Hon. Gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of
Trade, the addition of these towns would produce no material
effect. Where, then, was the use of the alteration now propo-
sed ? ( Hear, hear.) Ho believed,- however, that the effect
of the alteration would be to lower the averages, and
the presumption therefore was, that it would arso have
the effect of raising the duty.--(Hear, hear, and cheers. )
The Hight lien. Baronet did not attribute any evils to the old
law—he had said that it was not the cause of the distress—he
had said that he did not profess to expect any benefit from the
new law. All the Hoa. Gentlemen opposite had said that the
object of the law was to leave the protection as it was. Why,
therefore, did they seek to add fresh circumstances of doubt?
What merchant would enter into the trade until he had ascer-
tained what would be the effect of the new law? How could
they expect anything like regularity of trade until the effect of
these alterations should be ascertained? The old law hail al-
ready produced mischief enough without adding a further cause
of mischief to it. Ile should suppurt the motion of his Hon.
Friend for doing away with these, towns altogether, and also the
motion of his osher 800. Friend, in order that the public might
have an opportunity of judging of the effect of the measure.
He was at a loss to r onceive how the opposition to the
latter motion could be justified. The Right Honourable Ba-
ronet had said that his objection to the motion was, that
it would revive the discussion ore the whole subject next year,
and the Right Hon. the Vice-President of the Board of lrade
had said that it was desirable, in the legislative settlement of
a g"eat question, to introduce such a measure as should settle
the questiun at once and finally. Now, those expressions ex-
hibited a degree of simplicity that he had hardly expected from
Gentlemen on the other side. He had hardly expected to have
heard this Corn Bill, which the Government had assured the
agricultural interest would not diminish one iota of the pro-
tection—he had hardly expected to have heard this Bill denomi-
nated the great legislative settlement of a disputed matter.—
( Hear, hear.) Did the Hon. Gentleman suppose that the
people would be so imbecile as to cease from agitation ins con-
sequence of this Bill ? On the contrary,ahey would only agi-
tate in a ten-fold degree—(Cheers)—until they had obtained a
total repeal of these laws.—(Cheers.) What did the present
measure amount to? It atimunted to an acknowledgment of
the principle for which the people had all along been contend-
ing. Last year they had been told that the old law was per-
fection—that it had worked well. They however continued
the agitation, and this year an alteration had been proposed
in the law. That was a concession of the principle ; in fact,
everything had been conceded except a substantial change.
This coxed not be considered as ea legislative settlement of a
great question, for the people would never cease to agitate until
the great principle which had been conceded should be fully
carried out, and the law be totally repealed. The enly reason
which he could imagine as inducing the Government to oppose
the motion of his Hon. Friend was, that they must have a doubt
upon tpeir minds as to what might be the result of the addition
of these towns. if they had no doubt on the subject, why
should they oppose the motion ?
Mr. HARDY said it appeared to him that the reason of
the towus being added was to prevent fraud. By increasing
the number of the towns, they increased the sphere of opera-
tions for those who might seek to practice fraud, and thus ren.
der it very difficult, or wholly impossible, for such persons to
carry on their fraudulent practices.
Mr. LAI3OUCHERE said, that the House having decided,
on adopting the principle of the sliding scale, it became, from
the moment of such a decision, only desirable that they should
construct the system of averages so as to guard as far as pos-
sible against fraud. He (Mr. Labcuchere) thought that the
Right Hon. Gentleman, the Vice• President of the Board of
Trade, in- referring to what tire Hon. Member for Lambeth
had said on this subject, had not dealt quite fairly with what
the Hon, Gentleman had said. The Right Hon. Gentleman
said, " You justify fraud; you say that fraud is a benefit to
the consumer." The lion. Member for Lambeth had never
said that fraud per se was a benefit to the consumer. What
the Honourabl r Member said was—" That under the
existing system of Corn-laws the operation of fraud,
to which that system gave encouragemetit, had had the effect
of bringing into the market foreign wheat at prices at which,
tooter other citetimstances, it could not come into the market."
In that sense the lion. Gentleman had said that if they ren-
dered frauds less practicable they would injure the consumer
that was, that they would prevent foreign wheat coming into
the market, and thus injure the consumer. He must say that
the list on the table appeared to be free from many of those ob.
jections to which the first list was liable:; but as far as regarded
its practical operation, there was no very great difference.
However, anything that could be said on the subject must be
coejectura!, and, for his own part, he would prefer the opinion
of so intelligent eorn-dealer on the subject to the opinion .of,
any Member of that House.---( Hear.) When the subject
was first discussed in that House, he stated that he had been
informed by persons on whom lie could place reliance, that the
°fleet of the new towns would be to influence the advertised
averages to the amount of 55., but on looking at the documents
on the table, he felt bound to acknowledge that he had over-
stated the effect.—(Hear, hear.) He did not think the adver-,
tised averages could be affected to that extent, but he must also
say that he was by no means convinced that the averages
would not be affected. It was remarkable that till the Hon.
Member for Sussex said that the averages would not be affected,
all persons, on both sides of the House,
the agricultural or commercial interest, whether the
Honourable Member for Lincolnshire, of the Honourable
Member for Somersetshire,whether belonging to
who hail spoken on the
subject, were agreed that the averages would be affected.
Upon the whole, therefore, in the position in which lie stood, if
his Hon. Friend the Member for Malden should divide the House
on his motion, he should feel bound to vote for it. But what-
ever course he might take am it, he hoped the Right Hon.
Baronet would do this, that lie would allow a separate account
of the averages to be kept in the towns where they had hereto-
fore been taken, and where they were now proposed to be taken.
There was no difficulty in doing it, and by that means they
should be enabled to judge of the operation of the system. It
would not, of course, completely meet the case, but they should
see What was the working of one of the elements from which
they apprehended that these effects might be produced.
Lord WORSL EY thought that, taking the averages in these
new towns would not produce the effect the Right Hon. Baronet
anticipated, in preventing fraud. He thought it would make
fraud more difficult—( Hear, hear)—inasmuch as three or four
individuals, who by getting stocks of wheat, and selecting per-
sons to make sales of them, over and over -again in different
markets, had affected the averages, would now have to employ
more agents. Fraud could be rendered more difficult, but
could not be absolutely preveeted. He did net think that the
effect of taking the averages in these towns would be to lower the
average by 2sa though there was a general impression among far-
mers that it would do so. He believed that the farmers considered
the scale of duties not sufficiently protective, and, therefore,
seized on anything that they considered would secure them
some protections. But he should not be doing his duty as an
agricultural Member if, there being not a sufficient protection
for the farmer, lie attempted to gain it by anything like a side-
wind. He did not place much reliance on the fact of there
being Meets manufacturing towns and fifteen agricultural.
hus Guildford gave an higher average than' Liverpool, but
then the wheat of Guildford was of the finest sort, used by
confectioners, while the return from Liverpool included the in-
ferior Irish wheats. There was not a fair return from these
two towns. He would vote ins favour of retaining the towns,
because it would make the Bill better, though it would not cure
all the evils he complained of.
Mr. HOWARD was also in favour of retaining the addi-
tional towns

Mr. CHILDERS did not intend to divide the House on
that occasion; but he should certainly divide upon the subject
when the 29th clause came under the consideration of the
House.

Mr. AGLIONBY said that before the discussion was
dropped, he wished to ooserve, that the• admission formerly
made, that frauds had been committed; seemed now to be
retracted by Hon. Gentleman opposite. He could not con-
ceive the grounds of that alteration of opinion, and he did not
find that any reasons had been assigned for it. In his opinion,
there were many inconveniences inseparable from the system
of averages, and he believed that the only remedy for
the evils would be the adoption of a fixed duty.—
(Hear.) Ile had reason to know, that in the neigh-
bourhood of Carlisle, there had been a difference in the
averages
,of from 35 to 10. He now wished to ask the Right
Hon. Baronet to what extent he thought the amount of collect..
ing the returns might be reduced by the alteratiens which he
contemplated, and how he expected the addition of so many
new towns would affect the returns ?
Sir R. PEEL sai 1 that it would be difficult for him to say
what might be the extent of the reduction of the expense of
collecting the averages under the new system ; but he had
reason to think that they would ba collected by the
excise for a less sum than the present amount.
He did nn,: deny that fronds had been committed.
There were, certainly, great frauds committed under the old
system, and it was difficult to say to .what extent frauds may
increase. Perhaps he should not call them frauds, but
iftirtals u(:vsOuld be prevented.
'hough not com-
binations, or speculations, with regard to corn, for the purpose
of gain, but he did not thinki they were so extensive as the
Hon. Gentleman opposite seemed to suppose; but by the ad-
d tion com-
pletely of l
prevented townsthat
heot f
rtahoodusg
cf t
wthatfrauds for the purpose of raising the prices of corn and diminish-
ing the duty, and frauds for the purpose of diminishing the
price and raising it when persons had large stocks on hand.
He must say that the 'Hon. Gentleman was not strictly cor-
rect in stating that the price of corn must vary with the port.
He would show him that the price of corn in counties—
not great producing counties—was higher than in
counties producing the .best wheat.—.(Heat., hear,.) In
those places which were free from the influence of foreign
corn, the markets woold.be higher than in those places which
produced better wheat. He thought that the price in Leices-
ter would be higher than the price in Essex or Kent. The
smaller the number of towns, the greater would be their influ-
ence in those places where corn was imported ; and the greater
the number of inland townsohe more would the influence of
those towns, which imported corn from Scotland and Ireland, !
be reduced. The more those towns were diminished, the mere
would the influence of the others be. increased. If the Hon.
Gentleman wanted fully te carry out his principle, he ought
tiro raquire that is one or the towns the old method of taking
the averages should be retained. The Right Hon. Gentleman
had said that one of the causes tending to produce a lower
tate of average would be the employment of excise
officers to take the averages instead of the corn In-
spectors.
Therefore, in order to carry out his .pika,
ciple fully the Honourable Gentleman ought, in ~dditian

to his motion respecting the new towns, to move that in one
half of the old towns the averages should be taken by the ex-
' ei4e .14ve:e, and that in the other half they should continue to
be taken les the inspeetors, as at present, in order to try fairly
what woula be the effect of the increased vigilance of the ex-
cao officers. He trusted the Committee would adopt the clause
as it stood.
Mr, P. M. STEWART said that he considered the system
of averages as one of the great evils inseparable from the slid-
in;; scale.—( Hear, hear.) If they were to legislate mail
doomsday, they would never do away with the inherent vice
of the system of averages.—( Hear, hear.) In Scotland, the
averages were struck before a Jury, in the presence of the
Sheriff ; yet, even under that system, there were constant
complaints of fraud. It was impossible to prevent fraud in
striking the averages.—(Hvar, hear.) It was, however, their
duty to do the best they could. He thought the addition of the new
towns was a great element of correction in taking the average;.
The additional 9.59 towns was made for the purpose of obtein-
ing a bone fide return of the prices of wheat throughout the
country. The greater the number of towns from which the
averages were taken the more they scattered the power, and.
rendered powerless those who attempted fraud in the markets.
He pie Stewart) was, therefore, surprised to hear Hon. Gen-
tleineti on that side, who like him condemned the Bill in prin-
ciple, hut who thought it their duty to make the best of it—he
was surprised at the arguments used in favour of a restricted
number of m ere ets. The old system irieluded tow us which
ought net to have been included; and excluded others. Now
the net: list renseslieil this. He had only one other remark to
make, and that was that. when the Right lion. Baronet was in
search of good markets only, why did Ire not cross the border
and take three or four celebrated markets in the south of Scot-
land? It might be said that they would find but a bad sample
if wheat there, but he begged to say, and there were lion.
Gentlemen on both sides of the House interested in land, who
would support him, and more especially his Hon. Friend the
Member for Haddington, when he stated that there was no
market in the United Kingdom where there was such fine
wheat or such high prices as the Haddington market, and he
( Mr. P. M. Stewart) asked why, when they were in search of
markets, they did not go to the Haddington and Midlothian
markets ?
Str R. PEEL said the averages in Scotland were so very
unsatisfactory, that he begged to decline introducing them into
his proposal.—( A laugh.)
Mr. P. M. STEWART denied that. This was a ques-
tion of great importance. The Right Hon. Baronet having
had his joke, he (Ur. P. M. Stewart) begged to say that he
should wish a further reason. lie was serious, and he could
assure them that the markets he had mentioned were two of
the best. in Scotland.
Sir R. PEEL made some remark, but in so low atone of
voice, and with his back to the reporters' gallery, that we did
not hear the observation.
Dr. BOW BIN G confessed he felt some surprise at the many
observations which had been made with respect to those ave-
rages. He was surprised to hear the advocates of a free-trade
principle receive this new system of averarges. The effect of
this new system would be to increase the amount of the duty,
and he thought the Hon. Gentleman who had spoken last was
not aware that it must materially affect those interests he had
so well advocated. Now these averages produced an effect,
or they produced none. It was quite clear they interfered with
a great number of arrangements which depended on the old
system, and a great many contracts had been entered into,
grounded on the old system. The Right Baronet proposed to
disturb them, and he ( Dr.Bowring) believed it would produce
disadvantages to the interests he was anxious to protect. The
effect of the addition of 150 new towns, would not be to de-
crease the general average. The nearer they went to places of
production, the lower the price would be ; and the lowering the
price; caused the duty to be raised. The effect of the new
system must be to lower prices, and consequently to in-
tireaee the duty ; and to the extent it was raised, to that
extent would sacrifices. be made by those who were al-
ready oppressed by these restrictive and prohibitory duties.
Now, the Bight Hon. Baronet was not satisfied with the pre-
sent averages, because the average now taken had a tendency
to diminish the amount oil duty; and he, therefore, proposed
a more stringent system of averages. The public had some
sort of benefit in the collusion or fraud, as it was called, in
raising the prices of corn, in order .that the amount of duty
should be lowered, for by that very collusion the price was
lowered to the consumer. It, therefore, dip appear to him
that the new system must be pernicious to the consumer. He
therefore, could wish to see the proposal of the Right Hon.
Baronet worked under the system of the old machinery
The amendment was then withdrawn,

Mr. WAKLEY said, he thought ili proposal of the Right
Win. Baronet was one that would seriously affect the health of
the community, by being the means of introducing corn that
would be unfit for consumption.—(Hear, hear.) Under
the proposed system of taking the averages, there would
be the greatest inducement to send wheat of a very inferior
description into the market for the express purpose of saving
the duty. Ile therefore wi-lied to propose, that nowheat which
should be found to be unfit for the purpose of human food,
should be returned to the excise officers appointed under that
Aut. He admitted that there would be difficulty in distin-
guishing the good from the bad. He admitted it would require
cnns.derable judgment in the party in all cases, to determine
whether the wheat wat fit for food or not. He should theref ire
not press the motion to a division, but he had brought it for-
ward in order to its consideration by the Right Hon. Baronet,
for it was really a most important subject, and one that
ought not to be dismissed hastily. But he felt it would he
useless to submit the question in the form of a motion, but he
really hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would give it his attention
Sir R. PEEL said he should not like to leave such a subject
to the judgment of an Excise officer.
Mr. M. GIBSON said the sliding scale did not do what
the Right Hon. Baronet professed, viz. admit corn when it
was wanted, because when corn was scarce there was a great
want of good corn to mix with the inferior kind.
Mr. BROTHERTON said the best thing to" do was to
abandon the averages altogether.--(Laughter.) One subject
had not been referred to in the course of these debates, viz.
that or the currency. When they got to a metallic ettrrency the
price of corn would keep low, and the increase of paper
would cause prices to rise. It was, therefore, quite impossible
that the system of averages could be good, anti nothing could
convince him that such was the case.

Atter a few words from Lord Niroasr.wr and Mr. FOR
sn:a, which were inaudible.

Mr. HAWES said he thought what had fallen from the
Hon. Member for Finsbury was of very great importance, and
he hoped the suggestion would be carried out. 'I he greater
the number of towns, the greater number of places likely to
suffer from an introduction of bad wheat. He hoped the lion.
Member for Finsbury would press the subject, and he (Mr.
Ilawes)-should be most happy to give him his vote.
Mr. GLADSTONE said the Hon. Member f.,r Finsbury
admitted that there was great difficulty in carrying his Proposal
into effect, and he (Mr. Gladstone) thought this was
the greatest objection to it. The Honourable Gentleman who
had just sat down had advanced his opposition to the proposed
mode of taking the averages, as it would materially in-
crease the introduction of bad wheat. Ile (Mr. Gladstone)
differed with the Honourable Gentleman. In the first place
it assumed what was quite contrary to the fact, because it. was
assumed that the new towns were merely the centre of produc-
tion, and not the centre of consumption, whereas the new
towns were composed in the same proportion of the producing
towns as the consuming towns are in the old list. It appeared
to hint (Mr. Gladstone) that the sales of damaged wheat were
more likely to take place in large towns, as a great quantity
of it was used in manufactures. It was used for the purpose of
making starch. He thought it was perfectly impossible to
separate such wheat from the returns. They might rest cer-
tain of this that very litile such wheat would be entered.
Mr. AGLIONBY said the proposal of the Hon. Member
for Finsbury might be difficult, but it was not impossible. He
would take the price of los. where the return was made of
corn sold in the market, and that all corn sold for less than
one-third of that price should be excluded from the average.—
t Hear, hear.) When the :best corn fetched a certain price
that all corn sold at less than one-third of that price should be
excluded.

Air. MARK PHILLIPS said he wished to correct a
mistake of the [light Hon. the President of the Board or Trade
when he stated that much damaged flour was used in manu-
factures. He (Mr. M. Phillips) could assure the Howe
that for the purpose of manufactures the very best sort of
flour was use I, and for the purpose of finishing off cottons,
the flour was generally obtained from the United States. The
slightest tendency to unsound flour rendered it unfit for the pur-
pose of the manufacturer.

- Air. W A KU.: Y said if he had to propose a remedy, it would
he one not relished by the Hon. Baronet, as it would be to make
the trade in corn entirely free, but that would not exactly suit.
the provisions of this Bill.—( Hear.)
The clause was then agreed to.
Clauses 10, 11, 12, 13, 14,15, 16, and 17, were also agreed to.
On clause 18 being proposed,
Mr. AGLIONBY said, he objected to this clause, because it
did net place the inspectors in the city of London, and those in
the other towns in the kingdom, upon the same footing. If
any inspector had been guilty of fraud or misconduct, he
ought to be subject to immediate removal. He also objected to
the proposal to give compensation to the present inspectors.
He thought that where individuals had not been convicted of
neglect in the performance of their duty, they should be re-
tained in office.

Sir 11. PEEL said there was a power vested in the Justices
of the Peace of removing individuals who had been guilty of a
clear neglect of duty. It was considered, however, that it
might be desirable, in some eases, to relieve from perform-
ance of the duties of inspection an individual who had been
guilty of no such neglect, and, therefore, a power to that
effect was proposed to be vested in the Treasury. He could
not understand the extreme jealousy of vesting in the
Executive Government the power of removing the inspectors.
He would venture to promise that in every case of removal the
grounds of it should be stated to the House.
After a few words from Lord WORSLEY and Colonel SIB.
THORP,

Mr. A GLIONBY said he would not trouble the House by
pressing the point which he had brought under their Attention,
but he wished to a•k the Right Hon. Baronet what was the in-
tention of the Government in proposing these clauses ? Did
they intend to dismiss the present inspectors on giving them
compensation, and vest the duties in the officers of excise?
Sir ROBERT PEEL—The inspectors' authority would
cease under the new law, but it was the intention of the Go-
vernment to retain every officer qualified for the duties imposed
by the Bill ; but certainly the Government had no intention
of removing them all, and giving them compensation. He
could not state more exactly at present what the Government
would do with those officers, but they would be treated with
every consideration.

Clause 18 was then agreed to. The following clauses to 23
were next agreed to.

Lord WORSLEY postponed his amendments to clauses 23
and •2-1.

On clause 2d being put,
Mr. THORNLEY hope l the advantages of the new law
would be extended to the United States, by allowing their ports
to participate in the advantages enjoyed by Odessa and the
ports of the Baltic.
Lord WOHSLEY rose to propose an amendment to this
clause. He said he was anxious that the averages should be
taken at a longer period than that proposed by the Bill.
He thought it would be advantageous if the period was ex-
tended to ten weeks instead of five. It would benefit the

farmer by giving a fairer average throughout the year, and
be an advantage to the consumer, by giving an opportunity
of gettinc, a supply of wheat from a grater dittalice. He
moved that the blank in line 33 be filled.up with the word

" nine." The Noble Lord stated, in referring to the great
meeting at Lincoln, that he had asked the opinion of a
staunch Conservative as to the plan of the Right lion. Ba.
ronet, and he said if he had been in the House he should have

voted against all the propositions of the Right ilon. Baronet.
Col. SIBTHORP opposed the amendment, expressing his
astonishment that the Noble Lord should profess himself the
farmers' friend, and yet sit and act with those who were en-
deavouring to ruin them. The Noble Lord wanted to have the
averages extended to ten weeks, because it would facilitate, the
importation of corn. Now ho (Col. Sibthorp) was not for an
importation of corn, and he believed the farmers were not for it
either.
Nlr. R. PALMER supported the amendment of the Noble
Lord.
Mr. GLADSTONE apprehended that there was no ob-
jection, on principle, to the proposition of the Noble Lord; it
must turn on what would be most convenient in practice. It
must be considered how very differently the proposal would
act under different circumstances. When prices were rising,
he was afraid it would postpone the reduction, while
the ether hand, when prices were falling, the farmer would be
o.siposed to foreign competition long alter he would otherwise
be. It was well known that the turns of price in the corn
market were very sharp and sudden, at a particular season;

during five or six weeks before harvest there was a great rise,
and in the six weeks after harvest there was a great fall. His
conviction was that, on the whole, no arrangement could be
made more fair to all parties concerned than the fixing the
average at six weeks, as under the Bill.
Mr. P. STEWART opposed the amendment. He had
contemplated makinz a proposal diametrically opposite to that
of the Noble Lord. From alt experience of the working of the
Corn-laws, ever since they were passel, it appeared that, to
secure the greatest accuracy in the averages, the period was
limited. When they were an exporting country, the averages
regulating the exportation were, at first, limited to the Neekly
returns, and finally to the market price on the day before the
exportation . From the time the country became apprehensive
of needing a supply the present system of averages was intro-
dared. He considered a limited period ensured greater ac-
curacy. He was glad that the Noble Lord bad no chance of
carrying his amendment. In his opinion, the shorter they
made the period for ascertaining the averages, the more would
they he likely to succeed in carrying out the new law with ad-
vantage to the community at large.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER approved of the amendment of his
Noble Friend (Lord Woreley), which he thought would have
the effect of giving greater steadiness to the markets.
Colonel SIBTHORP repeated his opposition to the amend-
ment.

Viscount. EBRINGTON supported the amendment. Ile
thought that the longer they made the period for taking the
averages, the more likely were they to obtain steadiness of
price. For his part, he should wish that, instead of " ten
weeks," they might substitute " ten years ;" and then they
would have a nearer approximation to a fixed duty.
Colonel T. WOOD thought that the proposal of the Noble
Lord would be pernicious both to the consumer and to the far-
mer. That would only have the effect of preventing the im-
portation of foreign corn from being proportioned to the wants
of the country.
Mr. E. BULLER supported the amendment.
Mr. G. PALMER also supported the amendment. In his
opinion it would have the effect of discouraging those frauds
which had of late years been so extensively practised.
Sir R. PEEL said that various proposals had been made
to Government to extend the period of taking the averages ;
some persons reccommended 10 weeks, others 4 and 5, and
that the period be extended to 13 weeks. But upon consider-
ing those different proposals, and examining what the opera-
tions of them would be, he must say that the impression on
his mind was that any extension of the period of
taking the averages would not operate at all as a check
upon fraud or speculation, because the speculator would calcu-
late the advantages he would have in pouring corn into the
Market during the extended period, and consequently his mo-
tives to fraud and speculation would be increased rather than
diminished by the extension. He (Sir R. Peel) confessed that
the result of the inquiries made by himself and his eolleagues
was, that an extended period would operate, occasionally, inks.
riously to the consumer by keeping the duty high at a time when
it was important that it should be diminished. On the
other hand there were cases in which it would operate in-
juriously to the producer. lie had given the best attention
that he could to the subject, and he was not able to persuade
himself that any extension would be attended with good effect.
upon the whole he had come to the • conclusion that it was
safest to adhere to the period of six weeks. There would be
great risk to the consumer, if the period were extended
to thirteen weeks. The duty would be high when
the price :of corn was high. Referring to past
years, it would be seen that if ten weeks were adopted
as the period, the same objection would apply. On the other
hand the duty would be low when the price of corn was low
if those periods were taken. He had, therefore, come to the
conclusion that the s ifest course was to adhere to the period of
six -.seeks rather than take a longer period.
Mr. HAWES was against extending the period beyond
six weeks. If the proposition was to extend the period to
six months the ease would be different, but in the case of a few
weeks he saw no necessity for adopting any change.
The Committee then divided, when there appeared—
For the original motion
For the amendment
Majority for the original motion .. --205
The clause was then agreed to.
On clause 2S being read, Mr. BAYLEY suggested that the
mode of ascertaining the value of corn should be by measure.
Mr. WALL ACE said that he had been a member of the
Committee which sat on the subject to which the Hon. Gen-
tleman al!uded, and the evidence produced before that Com-
mittee was so strong that they considered the proper mode of
ascertaining the value of corn was by weight and not by mea.
sure. The only proper criterion by which, in his opinion, the
value could be ascertained, was that of weight. It was by
weight that the corn came to the consumer, and great frauds
were committed when the purchase was made by measure.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said, that this was not the first time
during the course of these discussions, that he had been met by
two propositions of a totally opposite nature. Fur himself, he
could not agree either to the proposition of his Hon. Friend, or
to that of the lion. Member for Greenock. He thought that
any sudden enactment would be attended with great incon-
venience.
After a few words from Dr. BowasNa and Lord
WoitsLEV. clause 28 was agreed to.
On clause 29 being proposed,
Mr. CHILDERS said, that as the subject had already been
so amply debated, he shodld not detain the House by going into
any discussion on the subject. lie should therefore content
himself with moving that instead of clause 29, the following be
substituted—" That from the pass.ng of this Bill up to the Ist
day of May, 1843. the duty to be paid on the importation of
foreign corn shall be regulated by the averages of those towns
only which have hitherto made returns in accordance with the
Act of 9 George IV."
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Commit-
tee divided, when there appeared—
For the clause
• For Mr. Childers's amendment
Majority for the original clause —l33
Clauses from 30 to 45 were then agreed to.
The schedule, comprising the new scale of duties, was

then put. - ,
Mr. B. WOOD proposed as an amendment that the duty
should be 20s. when the price was 455., but which he with-
drew in accordance with the general feeling of the 'louse.
Lord WORSLEY moved the addition, of whi. h he hail
gi% en notice, "')'hat every person who shall sell British corn
at or within any city or town named in the said schedule
her, unto annexed, other than the city of London, shall, be-
fore he or she shall sell any British corn at any such city or
town. make and deliver, in manner hereinafter mentioned, a
declaratioa in the fo'lowing words, that is to say :
( Form of Declaration.)
I, A. 8., do declare thatthe returns to be made byme con-
formably to the Act passed in the year of the reign of her
Majesty Queen Victoria, intituled (here set forth the title of
this Act), of the quantities and prices of British corn, which
hence-forth shall by me, or for me, be sold, shall, to the best of
toy knowledge and belief, contain the whole quantity, and no
more, of the British corn bonafide sold for or by me, within the
periods to which such returns respectively shall refer, with the
prices of such corn, and the names of the buyers respectively
• ad, to the best of my judgment, the said returns shall, in all
respects, be accountable to the provisions of the said Act.'
" Which declaration shall be in writing, and shall be sub-
scribed with the hand of the person so making the same, and
shall by him or her, or by his or her agent, be delivered to the
mayor, or chief magistrate, or to some justice of the peace for
such city or town, or for the county, riding, or division, in
which the same is situate, who are hereby required to deliver a
certificate thereof to the supervisor of Excise acting as inspec-
tor of corn returns for such city or town as aforesaid, at the
place appointed for receiving such returns, or to such continu-
ing inspector of corn returns as aforesaid for such city or town
(as the case may be), to be by such supervisor or inspector
registered in a book to be by him provided and kept for that
purpose."

- Sir R. PEEL opposed the amendment. The effect of the
clause would be to discourage sales in the open market, and
'brow much difficulty in the way of the seller.
After a short conversation the,amendment was withdrawn.

Colonel SIBTHORP then—ro;eTo move, pursuant to ne-
Ice, that the duty on foreign corn should be paid at the period
,f importa. ion. He thought that the present system was
favourable to no party except the foreigner. It was
expeetefl that as soon as the Right Hon. Baronet had
passed his measure, 3,000,05)0 quarters of wheat would be im-
ported into this country, and tne consequence of this inunda-
dation of the market would be the ruin of the farmer, who
would 1.):, unable to pay his rent, an, meet the other charges
to ‘dlich he was subjected. Since the Right Hon. Baronet
had proposed his tariff, to which he (Colonel Sibthorp)
meant to offer every opposition in his power—(" Hear," from
the Oppesiti,n)—he hadbeen informed, and the Hon. Members
for Lincolnshire would bear him out in his statement, that
produce had fallen 25 per cent. in that county, and the
farmers were, with deep regret, obliged to lower wages from
2s. 6d. to 2s. 3d. and 2s. The consequence ultimately would
be, that whole families would be driven, through distress, into
the workhouses of those infernal unions. 'I he cause of all this
was to be attributed, to a certain extent, to the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet's measure, and, in part, to the threatened inundation of
foreign corn.

Sir 11. PEEL said that he was sure the House would ex-
cuse him from entering upon the question of the tariff at that
time ; but with respect to the importation of foreign
rattle, he would show that the apprehensions entertained
by his Hen. Friend on the subject were groundless, and tkat
great advantage would be derived by the agricultural and com-
mercial cla'ses, from the removal of the prohibition on the im-
portation of fresh meat and live animals, and that if a reduction
of 25 p.r cent. could be made, on the apprehension of the
measure, it would not be so injurious as the Hon. Gentleman
expected. If, as the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman stated, the
meat of foreign countries, which was to be brought into eompe-
titiou with the meat of this country, was absolutely poisonous,
he (Sir Robert Peel) would suggest that that was a security
against any great consumption of it—( Laughter)—and would
diminish the alarm of the capitalists. If what his lion. and
Gallant Friend had stated was correct, the measure would not
have the effect he anticipated.
Lord WORSLEY said that what the Hon. and Gallant
Member had stated with regard to the lowering of the price
of wages was correct, and he also lamented that it had the
effect of lowering the price of corn.
Mr. WA KLEY said that Honourable Members ought
to be very cautious in making statements with respect
to the lowering of the price of wages. The Hon. and Gallant
Member for Lincoln said, that the price of wheat in Lincoln-
shire hail fallen 25 per cent., and that statement
was confirmed by the Noble Lord (Worsley) ; but
if it were se, the people ought to understand that the people of
Lincolnshire were not sufferers, as the price of provisions had
been lowered also. But, at all events, people ought to be cau-
tious in making such statements, as ;other persons would be
found willing to follow the example of the people of Lincolnshire.
Colonel WOOD said that the Hon. Gentleman had stated
that there were three millions of quarters of wheat ready to be
poured into the market as soon as the Bill should pass. Now
those assertions ought not to be made except upon some accu-
rate data, as they were calculated to depress still more the price
of the corn in the market.

The gallery was then cleared for a division, but none took
place, the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman having consented that
his motion should be negatived without a division.
Mr. BARCLAY, in bringing forward his motion for the
omission of the new towns from the schedule, would follow the
example of the Hon. Member for Mahlon, and not enter any
discussion on the subject. After the result of that divisier., he
would not trouble the House to divide on his motion, he was
merely desirous to have it put, in order that his opposition to
the proposition might be put on record. While he was on his
legs, he wished to allude to what had fallen from the Hon.
Member for North Lincolnshire, respecting the corn merchants.
That Hon. Gentleman had characterised their conduct as in-
famous : now, he (Mr. Barclay) knew several:gentlemen con-
nected with the corn trade, and he could assuro the House that
they were most honourable men. He hoped tho Hon. Mem-
ber would qualify the expression.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER said that it was perfectly notorious
that there was more infamous gambling and speculation going
on on the Corn Exchange than even at Epsom or Ascot. He
did not apply the phrase to any particular individual, built
was perfectly notorious that the system was a most infamous
one. From the returns on the table of the House, it appeared
that in the markets of Wakefield, of Leeds, and of Loudon, the
dearer the price of corn was, the greater was the quantity
sold. That fact was sufficient to prove that the present system
was one entirely of fraud.
Dr. BOWRING thought it was utterly impossible that any
one could render greater service to the opponents of a sliding
scale, than the Hon. Member, who had just sat down, had ren-
dered them by his speech. He admitted that the present sys-
tem was a system of infamous fraud, and yet he said that he
would continue that system in order to keep up improperly the
price of food.

The question was then put, that this word Ctsvontry" stand
part of the schedule.
After a few words from Mr. Hawes, as to the most conve-
nient mode of putting the question,
Mr. GLADSTONE said that he was desirous of omitting
some towns from the schedule, for the purpose of introducing
the names of others in which the markets were larger.
The town of Newbridge was then ordered to be struck out.
The list of towns was then agreed to, and the Report was
brought up, and ordered to be received on Thursday.
The Report of the Forged Exchequer Bills' Billovas brought
up, and the Bill read a third time and passed.
The House then Adjourned at a Quarter-past One.

FINE ARTS.
THE HEROES OF WATERLOO, •
This is the title of a fine picture which is now in
the course of private exhibition at Messrs. Graves's,
Pall-mall, previously to its being placed in the en-
graver's hands. The figures introduced are all por-
traits of distinguished officers who f01.4-,rht at the
battle of Watertoo, and they are supposed to be as-
sembled in the reception-room of Apsley House,
awaiting, the summons to the grand banquet which,
for years past, the Duke has been in the habit of
giving on the memorable 18th of ,Tune. His Grace
is, Of course, tle most conspicuom figure in the
grenp; he is stationed nearly in the centre of the
picture, so that the spectator's eye is attracted to him
at the very first glance. The likeness is a good one,
but not remarkable ; that of Lord Hill, who stands
near the Duke, is excellent : but decidedly the most
striking portrait in the group is Sir Henry Har-
dinge's, whose peculiarly-marked countenance there
is no mistaking. The figure and attitude of the
Marquis of Anglesey are easy, graceful, and digni-
fied; and his magnificent Hussar uniform forms an
admirable contrast to the scarlet costumes of the
majority of the assembled officers. By way of vary-
ing and giving relief to the picture, some of the
guests are represented in a sitting posture; and here
the artist has been very successful, especially in his
portraits of Lord Strafford and Sir Edward Iterrison,
who are seated together in the foreground, to the left
of the spectator. On the walls of the reception-room
hang two full-length likenesses—one, of the Emperor
Napoleon, and the other, of George the Fourth, who
cuts a somewhat grotesque figure in the full High-
land uniform. On the whole, the painting is a skilful
and efficient one; the colouring, in particular, is rich
without being overcharged ; and from the deeply
interesting nature of the subject, we have no doubt
that it will obtain great and immediate popularity.

COURT CIRCULAR.
Lord Hill and Sir Robert Peel had audiences yesterday of
the Queen at Buckingham Palace.
Her Majesty, attended by Lady Caro'ine Coati: and the
Hon. Miss Cavendish, took an airing yesterday afternoon in au
open carriage. His Royal Highness Prince Albert rode out
on horseback at the same time, attended by Major-Genera
WemyFs and Colonel Bouverie.
His Royal Highness Prince Albert, accompanied by Colonel
Bouverie, attended yesterday afternoon a meeting of the Com-
voissios:ers for promoting and encouraging the Fine Arts at
the rebuilding of the Houses of Pa-liament, Viscount Pal-
merston, Lord John Russell, Lord Francis Egerton, Sir James
Graham, Sir Robert Harry Inglis, and other Commissioners
were p •esent.

The meeting broke up at a quarter past four o'clock.
Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales and the Prin-
cess Royal, were taken airings in carriages yesterday.
Her Majesty and Prince Albert, attend-d by the Dowager
Lady Lytlelton, Lady Caroline Cocks, Earl of Warwick, Major-
General Wemyss, and Colonel Rouverie, honoured Covent
Garden 'theatre with their presence yesterday evening.
Iler Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent visited her Ma-
jesty, the Queen Dowager, yesterday at Marlborough Howie.
I ho Duchess of Kent, attended by Lady Anne Maria Dawson,
and Sir G. Cooper, Bart., honoured the Italian Opera with her
presence last evening.
nil Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridra visited the
Queen Dowager yesterday at Marlborough-houie. His Royal
Highness, attended by Colonel Jones, left town in the afternoon
for his residence at Kew.

Iler Royal flignnes4 the Duchess of Gloucester vis;tcd her
Majesty the Queen' Dowager on Monday at Marlborough
House.

Her Majesty and Prince Albert did Mr. Sievirr the honour
yesterday of inspecting his marble busts of his Royal Highmizs
Prince Albert and his Majesty the King of Prussia, previous
to their going to the Royal Academy exhibition. Her Majesty
and the Prince were graciously pleased to• express their ap-
probation.

Air. Stephen Unevin, Mr. John Overett, Mr. James Fair-
head, and Mr. Danivl Nash, on behalf of the Growers of Seeds
in North Essex, in Bedfordshire, accompanied by Sir John
Tyrell, Bart., M.P., Mr. C. Hound, M.P., and Mr. Astell,
M.P., had an interview with the Earl of Ripon yesterday at
the office of the Board of Trade.
Alr. Franks, Governor, Mr. Fullarton, Mr. Gooden, Mr.
Stewart, and Mr. Mitchell, Directors of the Canada Company,
had an interview with Lord Stanley yesterday at the Colonial
Office.

A Deputation on the Rice Trade had an interview with the
Earl of Ripon yeftertlay.
Messrs. Morgan and Brandt, on the Russian Timber Trade,
had au interview yesterday with the Earl of Ripon at the office
of the Board of Trade.

THE COMPLETE SUFFRA.GE
MOVEMENT.
MEETING OF DEPUTIES IN BIRMINGHAM...
Illastilic Nam, 'f MD.% Y..—This morning the meeting of
Delegates, appointed at various meetings throughout the Minn.
try, to represent the feangs and opinions of the peop.e on the
important principles embodied in the Declaration and Memo-
rial issued by Mr. Sturge, took place in the Waterloo-rooms,
Waterloo-street, this morning. There were nearly a handred
Delegates in attendance, representing a large and influential
portion of the middle and working classes of the country, who
have united in a strenuous effort to secure a full, fair, and
free representation t f the people. Mr. Feargus O'Connor en-
deavoured to get up a counter -demonstratian, in tne shape of
an open air meeting in another part of the town, but the affair
was a complete failure, although the parties engaged in the de-
monstration were unsparing in their denunciations of the objects
and motives of those engaged in the " Complete Suffrage"
agitation.
At eleven o'clock Mr. Joseph Sturge was unanimously called
to the Chair. He said that he accepted the honour the more
readily, as he thought he would be able to facilitate business,
having seen all the letters which bad been received upon the
subject. The Chairman then read letters feint Stratford, Ri-
pon, Torrington, Taunton, Norwich, Snaresbrook, Devises,
Lynn, Alnwick, Hackney, Stockport, Stroud, Ashton-under-
Lyne, Bacup, Lancashire, Gateshead, and other places, ex-
pressive of the disposition of the writers to aid in the present
movement. The Chairman said that they might also rely upon
having the Reformers of Ireland with them. He begged per-
mission, for a moment, to advert to a matter personal to him-
self. His attention having been called, by a gentleman in
Scotland, to a statement which had appeared in the Northam
Star newspaper, that he (Mr. Sturge) had, in a conversation
with a Miss Grave, some time ago, said " That the people of
this country never could effect the required change except by
the sword, and, when they were prepared for that, that his
(Mr. Sturge'a) arm was at their service"—(Laughter)—he
could only give this statement the most unqualified denial; and
so thoroughly convinced was he of the sin and injus.
tice of taking away human life, that he would sooner forfeit his
own life than take that of his neighbour. He trusted that
neither himself nor his friends would ever recognise violence
as a means of attaining the objects which they contemplated.
Mr. Wm. Morgan was then appointed Secretary for the
sitting, and proceeded to read the list of Delegates, amounting
to nearly one hundred, amongst whom were the Rev. Dr.
Wade, the Rev. Thos. Spencer, of Bath, the Rev. Thomas
Swann, the Rev. 1. Allsop, Delon, Esq., Mr. John Mit-
chell, Mr. Arehd. Prentice, Mr. Collins, Mr. Vincent, Mr.
Lovett, Mr. Childs, of Bungay, Mr. B. O'Brien, and Mr.
Hey worth.

A Committee was then appointed to examine the claims of
all persons desiring to be included amongst the members of
the Conference.

• The Her. T. SPENCER, in seconding the nomination of Mr.
Vincent on tha Committee, paid that gentleman a high corn-
pliment for the manly and consistent advocacy of his prin-
ciples, while he manifested, at the sante time, a thorough wil-
lingness and hottest desire to conciliate all classes for the pro-
motion of the general good.
A Committee was also appointed to arrange the business of
that Conference, to whom all papers and resolutions were to be
submitted.

TLe other business was merely preliminary, and the Convo-
cation adjourned at Two o'Clock till Five in the evening.
Thos. Steele, Esq., Mr. Crawford (son of Sharman Craw.
ford, Esq.), and Mr. Webb, were admitted as visitors, and
took a part in the proceedings.
The question of the Extension of the Suffrage is to be. die-
cussed at the evening meeting.

THE TROUBLES OF THE SQUIRES AND TIER FARMER,.
—On Friday last a meeting of the agriculturists of the Chelm.
ford Farmers' Club took place at Chelmsford, for the purpose
of petitioning Parliament against the alterations as regard the
importation of corn and cattle. The meeting was attended by
Sir John Tyrrell,: Bart. M.P. ; C. G. Round, F;tq. ; Major
Beresford, M.P. ; C. C. Parker, Esq. ; C. Tyrell, Esq., and
a very large body of the leading agriculturists. Both the
County Members addressed the meeting. Sir John Tyrell
urged that the Government should be kept in—that the Whigs
wouli propose a worse Corn-law—and that after all the Agri-
wrists would not he so greatly injured as they seemed to tear.
"We have," he said, " lost our leaders. Our general officers
have been killed off. We had lost the Duke of Buckingham
at one time because he was in office. We have then the Duke
of Richmond to fall back upon, but I will tell you what is the
position of the Duke of Richmond. After the Corn Bill had
been introduced, 1 was going through the lobby of the House of
Commons, and I saw him with his son, the Earl of March, and
other Members together, and I asked what the Dnke of Rich•
mnond Bought of it? The reply was, he stated, " I don't sayl
like it, but I think 3ou had better take it." Well, then, he is
hors de combat. Then there is Lord Stanley, and Sir James
Graham, and others, whom we looked up to as the greatest
supporters of agriculture ; they are members of the Cabinet,
who say they are determined to stand or fall by the proposition.
Therefore we, as agricultural members, are placed in the most
painful and disagreeable situation. Mr. Round said, " You
may feel very uncomfortable in the frying-pan, but I advise you
not to go into the fire." 'the following resolution was adopted,
and a petition to the House of Lords was founded thereon :
" That the meeting views with alarm and regret the alterations
proposed in the Corn-laws and the Tariff, and the removal of
the prohibition in foreign horned cattle, sheep, and swirse, and
the reduction of the duty on seeds, starch, tallow, and hides,
which would lead to the ruin of the tenant occupier, and the
misery of the labourer."— Essex Paper.
During the 'night before last the portress of
No. 17, line de Gramniont, the lit incipal part of which
is occupied M. F
iulchiron, the deputy, who is the pro-
rietorol' by M.
roused from her sleep by an unusual
noise. On getting up and looking out, she saw two
men endeavouring to carry off the lead. Returning into
her lodge, she pulled a string which leads to bells in
nearly all the servants' rooms, and thereby alarmed the
whole house, but the thieves, finding they were disco-
vered, made their way into the street, and fled. Ono
escaped, but the other was caught in the Roe do Grety
by one of the servants, armed with a cutlass, who, as the
man made resistance, wounded him in several places, and
then secured him. He proved to be a chiffonier, namedhis
Baudrut. He had a part of his cheek cut off, and
other so•otaetirldisy
iNivoerlesisseacvecrocin',
accomplice
,IyWast
.dangerous. He re-
fusedLICENSED VICTUALLERS SCHOOL.—A draft for
affordingoffiin, on
tnt e Saturdayeof additional b proof rAo
oielsf thus%
100/. was forwarded ttohutshe
Whitbread and Co. ;
the appeal of the Governor and
beManagement to
liberality of the subscribers will eminently Successful.
the