The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-24 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, MARCH 24, 1842

to add, that he had not, on any former occasion, expressed
an opinion on the matter. Ile had said that there had been
of late a considerable increase in the spirit duty in Ire-
land, but he dared say that the spirits were taken with
a due regard to temperance.--(Laukhter.)
C LIU It C EXTENSION.

such a tax as the income tax. The measure pro-
posed by the Right Honourable Baronet had caused
the utmost disappointment., and the explanation given by
the Right lion. Baronet of the manner in which ho pro-
posed to apportion the taxes, was equally unsatisfactory.-
-(Hear, hear.) He looked upon the measure as one of
great injustice ; but at the present. moment, when all
those things were susceptible of calculation, he did not
see what reason a Minister of the Crown had to come
down to that House and propose a measure imposing a
tax upon property not more in proportion than the tax
he proposed to fay .npon annuitants, traders, and pro-
fess•onal men.—(Hear, hear) He, (Lord R. Grosvenor)
would never consent to levy those taxes according to the
Measure proposed by her Majesty's Government.
(Hear, hear.) Having now stated his Aiews, he would
conclude with regretting that the Right Hon. Baronet
should have spoken in so acrimonious a manner on this
grave question, particularly when referring to, the Noble
Lord near him. After a most eareful consideration of
the whole question, Ids (Lord It.. Grosvenor's) duty was
to vote against the resolutions of the Right Hon. Baronet.
Mr. C. BULLER could not better begin what he had
to say on the subject before the Hause, than by expressing
his entire coincidence with the sentiments of the Noble
Lord, who very properly censured the acrimonious tone,
and the party feeling, that had been given to this debate
by the conduct of the Right Hon. Bart. the Member for
Tamworth.— (Cries of " Oh, oh," arid " Hear, hear.")

Mr. HAWES begged leave to ask the Him. Baronet,
the Member for the University of Oxford, whether he
intended to bring forward at an early day his motion on
the subject of Church Extension?
Sir R. H. INGLIS said that he had stated, on a former
occasion, that it was his intention to call the attention of
the House to the subject after Easter ; but he could not
say whether he would be enabled to do so at an early
period. He would, however, fix a day as soon as he
Might find convenient, and he would give the Hon.
Member and the House due,potice on the subject.
On the Order of the Day fOr the second.rcading of the
Public-House Bill being.moved,
Lord MAHON said he would not object to the Order.
being fixed for another day, provided he had suflicients
notice ; but he could not consent to the second readin
on that occasion.
The Order of the Day was then postponed.
In reply to a questiim from Mr. .FOX MAULE wit
revect to Turnpike Acts,
Sir J. GRAHAM said he had given notice a few day
ago of the intention of her Majesty's Government to;
introduce a general Turnpike Act and that measure,
of course countervailed the operation of any present,
Acts in relation to turnpike roads.
Mr. WAKLEY said, probably there would be no ob-i
jection to the Pub is-house Bill being read a t.,econdi
time oiA that occasion, as it did not appear to be opposed.;

lie (Mr. C. Buller) would explain what he meant, foi•
he was nut in the habit of making charges without being
able to support them. He must say, that if ever there
were a grave question deserving to be considered, with-
out any reference to party feeling, it was the present ;
and if ever there was a person who should have sought
to give such a consideration to such a discussion, it was
the Minister who had brought forward a plan of so great
and important a nature as the present.—(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. C. Buller) must say that the conduct of the
Right Hon. Baronet had, in many respects, disappointed
him, it was so different from his usual moderation and
fairness. In the first place, he (Mr. C. Buller) thought
the Right lion. Baronet pressed forward his measure with
precipitation; nex to hat the Minister who brought for Ward
such a plan, should have held himself open to any ete-
ration which might have been suggested to him in the
progress of the discussion, instead of pertinaciously
saying that he would listen to no amendments, but would
consider his plan as already perfeet.--(lnterrtiption
from the Treasury benches.) He had certainly heard
with regret the,determination of the Right Hon. Baronet
to adhere to all the details of the measure ' • he was
sorry „to find, for instance, that he still seemed disposed
extend the meaStire to the case of terminable annuities.

Sir JAMES GRAHAM said as measure inter-i
fermi with the authority of the Police Commissioners,'
it had been submitted to their inTectipn, and the Reporti
of the Commissioners had, not yet been received.

WAKLEY thought th'at it would be a great ad
vantage if that measure could be advanced one stage.

CO:WRIGHT BILL.

Sir R. PEEL, in moving that the order of the day be
read, asked his Noble Friend (Lord Mahon) to postpone
the committal of the Copyright Bill in order to give him;
(Sir R, Peel) an opportunity of bringing forward his re-
strictions relative to the income tax in the Committeti
of Ways and Means.
Lord MAHON felt great reluctance at postponing his.
measure, because he was aware that on former,
'occasions the postponement of it would lead to
its defeat. Nevertheless, considering the importance
of the measure of his Right Hon. Friend, he would not.
bring on any discussion. He hoped, however, he might
!'be permitted to have the Bill committed, pro forma, to
enable him to move that it be re-committed,
when he intended to introduce several amendments
,and have the Bill reprinted ; and if the .1-louso would
consent to that plan, he would fix an early day after
Easter for the discussion.

He must still further complain of that tone of constant
recrimination towards the other side of the House, which
the Right Hon. Baronet had introduced—those constant
appeals to the political feelings of his own party, and
those constant assertions, repeated over and over again,
that our difficulties Were caused by' some great miscon-
duct on the part of his predecesSors.—(Cheers from the
Ministerial benches.) That cheer, which met him from
the other side, was just one of those party displays just
one of those party cheers—which, he would say, ought
not to be elicited in the cause of that discussion, and
which he thought the Right Hon. Baronet had taken too
much pains to call forth.—(Hear. hear.)' He should say,
with all respect for the Right Hon. Baronet, that he did
think his conduct in the course of the debate had borne
too much the appearance of that of a Minister who
would not venture to rest his plan upon the mere
claims of justice and of good policy, but who endea-
voured to carry it by the force of party feeling ; and
who, in order to meet that ominous silence which had
saluted the first announcement of his income tax,
and that still more constant silence which had
constantly greeted his new tariff, had had recourse
to party feeling, and the exciting of his supporters to go with
him,_ in order that they might obtain a triumph over their poli-
tical opponents. It was with great reluctance that be (Mr.
Buller) made any observations of that kind, because he knew
that it might appear unbecoming in him to presume to cen-
sure the Right Hon. Baronet. He would not have expressed
those opinions if he had not sincerely felt them, and if he
did not really deplore the time which the Right Hon. Baronet
had consumed upon the subject. Not oae other word, how-
ever, upon that subject, It appeared to him that that was
much too great a quest ion to be settledby mere political considers.
tions on the party interests of the day. He was not yielding
to any desire to exaggerate the case, when he stated it was
not a question which merely related to the Budget, or to the
finances of the year, but which was likely to exercise au influ-
ence upon the whole financial policy of this country for an unli-
mited period. It appeared to him that the proposal of the
Right Hon. Gentleman to introduce an income tax in time of
peace was the most important invention ever introduced in
the financial history of this country.—(Hear, hear.) He did
not wish, on that occasion, to indulge in any praises of the
Right Hon. Gentleman, but still he was bound to give him
credit for the boldness of his scheme, and the great
ability with which he had brought it forward.—( Hear. )
He also gave bins credit very sincerely for his honesty.
of purpose. The proposal was not that of a man who -wanted
to tilde over the difficulties of the moment, or to avoid collie
sion with a great evil. But further than that he could. not go.
It seemed to him that great, and able, and honest as the scheme
was, it was still but a great mischief, and, in his opinion, it
was the most rash, unwise; and pernicious measure which had
ever been prpposed in the financial history of this country.
This was no question of hoW they should get supply 'for a single
year. The Right Hon. Baronet distinctly proposed that• the
tax should continue for three years. Now, was there,any Gen-
tleman in that House who supposed that, if it succeeded for
three years, the experiment would rest there?—( Hear, hear.)
He did riot intend to inipute any want of candohr to the Minis-
ter who proposed it ; but he believed that, if the plan succeeded,
whatever might be his feelings at the time of its adoption, it
would not end with three years. It was far too convenient a
plan for raisin..' the supplies, far too easy a mode of getting over
the Budget of the year without proposing new taxes and getting
into collision with powerful interests, merely by proposing an ad-
ditional half or one per cent, to the income tax. It was far
too easy a mode of making up the revenue to be
discontinued after it had once been tried. It must
be viewed as a great change in the financial system
of the country, substituting, as it did, direct for indi-
rect taxation. He should perhaps fall into the error of re-
peating the objections which had been made to the income
tax by Gentlemen on that side of the House. He thought
that these objections were confined almost entirely to an in.
come tax—a tax upon uncertain and fluctuating income.—
( Hear, hear.) He did not believe that Gentlemen on that
side of the House would object to a property tax—a tax in
which the income arose from realised property. But there was
one remark which he would make on the subject of a property
tax,as disconnected with an income tax. Certainly if the owners
of property in that House—if the landed proprietors in that
House—chose to place a tax upon their own property, and not
upon that of others, he would say that that was a very just, a
very wise, anda very noble measure. They had undoubtedly a
right to do so, and no one would gainsay their right. He would
remind the House, however, of 'the answer returned by the
two Bishops to James I. when they were asked by that King
whether he had any. right to take their money without their
consent. The first Bishop, Bishop Williams, a man of ex-
treme civility, said, " Undoubtedly all they had belonged to
his Majesty, and his Majesty said he had a right to take what
d ,
he chose: The King then turned round to the second
1.31:h0p, who appeared to be a more independent sort of man,
land asked him what he thought of the matter? His answer
was a memorable one, and somewhat applicable to the present
ease : " Your Majesty has undoubtedly a right to take my
brother Willlatfies ttioneyi because he gives you his con-
sent."—( Cries of " Hear, Ileaf.hl In the Mlle way, if that
House came forward and offered to pay a property telf out of their
own income there was little fear that the professional
ant! trading part of the community would object. It must be
borne 11l mind that, after all, the two propositions were closely
connected. When he opposed an income tax be was convinced
he was practically apposing a property tax at the same time,
because he did not count upon that magnanimity in the two
Houses of Parliament, whiCh would induce them to propose a
property tax without an income tax. The objections which
hut been made were objections to an ikicome tax, and to those
objections no satisfactory answer had been given. He felt that
he was fully justified in that assertion, for however lucid and
full might have been the explanations of the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet anti the Chancel :or of the Exchequer, yet with restect to
the oldeetlons that had been made, nothing had been done to-
wards removing them,--(Hear, hear.) The first objection to
an income tak itt ablating injustice—the amazing injustice
of taxing realised property in the same proportion that they
-taxed incomes depending 'ttpiJalli,e greatest casualities. You
VIA tht gentleritin pkeptitY itfillnds,_ei:land, which is his
own, and descends always unimpaired and to llieiaeieii:neu.nt,.
to his children. Was it just or equal to C9flle 911 tlll man of a
limited income for life, or limited even for a shorter period
limited income dependant froth year to year on his
exertions) tor this tentintlatice his health' tif his
professional success and to hid iimbiint
as they the leiidtid cif tanddd Property ? And t *itY lit
WWI! It Was to be taken would preVe its injustice in a remark-
able manner, In the case of a profeslional man, yeti tax all
his gains, say for one year; ill another Cue troll do not tai tall
that a man geti iii dith yeith Hest:did Like ihat leeched a
striking it-Aqaba tit thl.S. &Apposin a professional man gains
6,9D01. ih 'oile year,' he would lay that by, but atiother man
getS 5.,000f. as.a legtiek, alid Whit WO the eddrse,piirsued with
ire rd 3othe bate lbgd,By Of and the suiii of 6,0001.
kid by . The latter was taken as the income of the year, and
they took from it 1501. a-year tax, while the 5,0001. legacy
was considered as the capital of property; and Dill s taxed
aF-
cording to the income beritell from iti his e itiught
moot", iikfittiy; It Us itrilei to come on thii_b who were
Oak yi, preearious professional gains, and talte.frottithint the
tam'e portion of the 'earnings On depeiided, at
they raid foie the reVertVe of `4; c4ili and fortune,
tat irohenided ntaupaired to his posterity. He would not
We. the case of lawyers, but the case was particularly hard
with respect to physicians, on account of the veal) period
of life during which they could is ti it pl-Otidrft. Its
had been told that Lilopekaiti tit a physician's
life ma tieVef inure than fifteen years ; iii this respect riu
'other profession Was so badly off. On small traders, captains
of merchaht ships, and all pefscilas of attiall rind precerldus
gains', this injustice Slid ifiequalitY the iticonie tax would be
enol. He %Id ll'Ard Sic answer to the next objection to the
threw over this objection in a few words, but on a former
opposition, more excitement,
tAk-,s-lts inquisitorial nature. The Right Hon. Gentleman,
occasion it was only got over
.after the petitions of millions of
;non of the income tat led to a
people. In 1806 the imps-
laegitrteoa ttehreedlig
larger amount.of pendent', thdr6
. The. Right Hon. Gentle-
gate ofh 4thsettcoonngdeurcAtlionfi3Ntrleymobbe;
any
ythLHasouursee,siannede
the year WOO: He thought the same slices would produce
the same effetts.s4 Hear; heat.)
Gentle-
man had ilitinclOded rib modification in the machinery. He
Said It WAS that introduced by Lord Landsdowne, which he sup-
posed would render it more agreeable to perms on his
(Mr. C. ltdiier's) side of the:House.
;hey
were connected with
11.14. Nate Lord. Rut what „copplained of was
kWh 1111,Cn (1.1 before,. and would he
that it had caused to
likely. to Vs
tdt e•• • "
't he thil4 olnectirm, be _had_ to the
♦
InleilAtiti tiaronet was, that the tax was one ofan
eitteedinEly demoralising nature, and would riflerriflergreat in
ducements to frauds by enabling one man . td ttie,
mid and another to overstate ills means.—( near, hear.)
Such practices hall taken place under the operation of the
old tax, and were they now grown so much more moral that
the
evils
of tho:nid svgens were not,to be apprehended now?
--(Hear, hear.) He would state one instance which was
given in the debate on the property tax in 1816. The whole
profits on the manufactures in Manchester had been asseS.Shd
at only 300,0004, and the assessment on the profits of
Manufactures in Glasffow whibh were only half of those in
Manchester, was 600,0001.,
being double the amount.
( Hear, hear.) Was it probable then that , ever, supposing
Glasgow was not fairly assessed, Manchester mu at
net have been assessed under the proper amount, as
it • only paid onerfourth of what Glasgow paid? Was
it not likely that such frauds would take place again,
and that, every person . weuld attempt to avoid the tax
in. eykrir possible way? A great deal had been said of the
merits the measure, because it avoided taxes on consume,
Isle carrot todities, and, therefore, did noel press on the working ;'
classes.; tut 4i4 not the tax fall upon the fund which employed 1

Lord JOHN RUSSELL was favourable to the gene-
ral objects of the Bill, and suggested to the Noble
Lord the propriety of entering into communication
with those interested on the subject, so as to obviate
many of the objections which had heretofore been made
to measures of a similar nature.

Lord MAHON had already entered into several corn-,
munications with interested parties, and he trusted that
the present measure was more free from objection than
any that had hitherto been brought forward on the
subject.

the working classes?—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") I which the Right Hon. Baronet had not alluded, namely, that
, r Hero Sir' R. Peel made an obser ation across the table, which lof lowering the differential duties.—( Hear, hear.) That, he
did not reach us.] He hoped he would be favoured with an ; believed, was the real resource of the country at this moment.
answer to that. Could it bo denied that that tax would fall ;—( Hear.) He had heard no argument on the other side
upon the capital by which the labourers were maintained ? i to convince him that, at best, half the deficiency might not have
--(Hear, hear.) A struggle was now going on between I been supplied by lowering the differential duties on timber,
capitalists, and the wages
.of profit were retlaced to the lowest 1 sugar, and coffee. That was a certain resource—there was no
amount. In the present state of things profits were extremely ' speculation about it ; the certain increase of consumption must
small, and the means of employing the working classes greatly ! have brought a large increase of revenue. This was the plan
diminished, and it was not likely that a tax of 3 per cent. would ' that was open to you ; yet this plan was entieely thrown over,
be any augmentation of those profits, or afford any inducement ' and why ? Not from any regard to the people—not fom any
to employ.capit al in the various branches of manufactures. regard for sound principles of finance, but simply from a regard
The fifth objection, and which appeared to him to be of great ('to large interests, whose monopolies they did not dare to
moment was, that an income tax had never before been proposed touch. He wished to allude to one argument of the Right
in time of peace.—(Hear, hear.) The last income tax was i lion, Baronet, as to the duties on corn, which he thought
proposed in time of war, when the capitalists could not go I rather a strange one to be used by ono who represented hie
abroad. They were now about to try it at a time when any I Corn Bill as tending to relax the trade in corn, and to lower
man of fluctuating capital could remove to any portion of the the price of the article. The Right Hon. Baronet said he could
world he liked.—( Hear, hear.) The measure had a direct ten-. not reckon on a revenue front corn, because the increase in
dency to drive capital out of the country, by inducing the mer- , the customs from this cause must be set off against the dinainu-
chant to' transfer his capital to other countries where it would ' tion in the general excise. But wiry must this be set off ? Be-
not be so severely taxed.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. cause. under the present system, if a large revenue arose from
Gentleman must be aware that such an effect had already been corn, it was a sign of corn having risen to a very high price; it
produced in some degree. The Right lion. Gentleman could I was a sign of great distress in the country ; it was a sign of
net be unaware that, during the last JO or 12 years, British there having been a bad harvest; it was a sign that a man must
capital to a tinge amount had been transferred to Germany, , pay 70s. and 735. a quarter for corn, before he could get any
;to Belgium, and to France ; and the Right Hon. Gentleman bread to eat;; and, oqcourse, if he expended so much io corn,
was now, by the imposition of this tax of 3 per cent. on income, he had less to lay out in other' articles, and, therefore, the excise
actually adding to the motives for the withdrawal of capital from fell off. The Right Hon. Baronet thought the Corn Bill
the country. It appeared to him that all the objections which would render the corn trade steady, and fix its price at about
could be urged against an income tax wee of tenfold force as 60s. and 635. a quarter. If that were the case, it might be
against the present proposition. Ihe first objection to the fairly assumed, that the falline off would not be so great. But
income tax was its exceedingly small amount. There might i.e this was the price they paid for keeping up monopoly. On a
sonic argument fur an income tax where it was attempted to subject so popular with Gentlemen on the other side of the
raise a great portion of the revenue by it. There might be House, as monopoly was, he should not venture to say a word
some argument for a,,, income tax, where, as was the case with against so sears d a thing ; but he would venture to mentiozi
Mr. Ricardo's proposed property tax,.seine great national effort one argument which, it. struck him, ought to have sonic
was to be made to raise a revenue for the capital of the country weight with Honourable Gentlemen opposite. They were
to attempt to pay off a considerable portion of the national making great sacrifices to keep up the monopolies of corn
debt. 'That was worth an effort; but when the Right Hon. and sugar, but these were almost the only articles,
Baronet reposed to impose this tax merely to raise a sum of which the new tariff lelt wholly untouched. All the smaller
3,000,000/., all the objections against such a tax were of ten- interests were touched freely, and what did they think would
fold force. The evils of an income tax did not consist in the become of there monopolies now that others were struck down ?
amount of revenue raised front it, but in the inequality, the How would these remain when they were not propped up by
injustice, and the inquisitorial nature of the machinery, any others? The Right Huts. Baronet, the Member for Dor •
and the same objectionable machinery must be used, whe- cheater, and the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Ma-
ther the amount raised by the tax was one million, or jesty's Government, held different language as to the duration
one hundred millions. An additional objection to the pre- of the Corn-law and Sugar Duties. The Right Hon. Baronet,
sent proposition was the shortness of the period for which the Member for Dorchester, was very careful to disclaim finality
it was proposed. That did away with the - only argu- with respect to the Corn-law, and the other Right Hon. Bare-
' intuit that could be adduced for imposing a tax on income net with respect to the Sugar monopoly, had used such ominous
derived from profits, as well as an ...income 'derived from pro. words as " temporary," and " for a time."—( Hear, hear, and
perty. Mr. Pitt's argument was, that the man who derived laughter.) He did not know what the sugar interest could
an income from profits ceased to pay when he ceased to re- expect except that their fate was put off fur a year, and indeed
ceive his income, while the man who derived a permanent in- that was the general understanding.—( Hear, hear, and laugh -
come from invested property still continued to pay. Now, if tor.) Could they really expect that their monopoly would
the tax was continued for three years, this argument was-,eorn- stand great and .powerful as they were ? (Cheers.) Formerly,
pletely done away with.—(Hear, hear.) A man whose in- indeed, when the beautiful system of their ancestors was in full
come was derived from an annuity, terminable at the end of operation, those monopolies were backed up and surrounded by
three years, would pay precisely the same amount to this tax others. Talk of the corn monopoly then, and the
as a man deriving an income from an invested property, which shoemaker started up and feared for his mono-
would last for the whole of his life, and descend to his children poly of shoes to the colonies.—(Loud laughter.)
after ]riot.—( Hear.) He thought this, als ', a most ill-chosen Talk of the sugar monopoly, and the straw-bonnetmaker was
period for proposing an income tax, on account of the great and frightened. Thus was one monopoly backed up by another,
acknowledged distress of the country. The inquisitorial ma- ' and it had its effect on the electoral body. But now the
ehinery for collecting this tax, which might be tolerated in a Right Hoe. Baronet, the Augustus of his time, came down to
period of prosperity, must, in times of distress, be productive sweep away those paltry monopolies of straw and trifles, and
of extensive ruin. It must also be productive of extensive they were to be all exposed to the competition of foreigners.—
mischief, that in a period of distress there should be a tax on (Cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet was de-
the employment of capital. There was another point which sirous to clear away the paltry rubbish of minor monopolies to
struck him as of importance connected with the present pe- erect the new mansion of free trade, but the hideous, staring,
rind. The machinery of this tax, always objectionable, was Gothic deformities of other monopolies he would not touch.—
particulurly so at present, when party feeling was so much more (Cheers.) But did they not see that they were endangering
violent than it had been in the time of the war.—(ilear.) those great monopolies by consenting to destroy the minor
Who would be the per sons to ascertain a man's property ? ones.—( Hear, hear.) If tfcalegon's house was burning, their
Why, his neighbour, chosen by the Government of the day.— own was the next.—(Cheers.) He only wished that while
(Hear, hear.) He conceived that great injustice would be their mouths were open to gorge almost the whole tariff,
done through the influence of party.spirit amongst those persons they would consent to swallow a little free trade in sugar.—
in small communities. The last objection which he had to make (Hear, hear, and laughter.) He wished that instead of an
was rested upon the ground of the motives for which it was pat income tax being given them, they were to get a - free
on—the disastrous news from India, anti the reverses which trade in sugar ; but he looked at the step that
our troops had lately suffered in that part of the world. He was taken as one of the. most important character.
thought the Right Hon. Baronet underrated the effect of this He thought their could not be a more deeply mischievous
tax upon the oninions of foreign Powers.—(Hear, hear.) view than that of the Right Hon. Baronet.—( Hear, hear.)
The Right Hon. 13aronet admitted that it was unwise to do that He stated that with perfect sincerity, and he trusted he had
which in the eyes of foreign Powers would seem to be a ma- convinced the House that, at least, he had taken up those opi-
nifestation of alarm. But this tax was never imposed but when niona upon no light or insufficient grounds.-- (Hear, hear.)
the country had suffered some disaster, as in 1798, and when it Dr. BOWRING said, as he intended to vote against the
was subsequently re-imposed upon the breaking out of another proposition of the Right Hon. 14aronet, he wished to address
war, with the same motive; and, therefore, he would not a few observations to the House. In the first place, he wished
doubt that waive, on this tax now would appear to be an act of to state that he was in favour of direct taxation, because he
alarm.—(Hear, hear.). On all these grounds he thought he conceived it possessed a great variety of advantages. He
might fairly come to the conclusion, that however unpopular the knew of no system of taxation which was so equal
tax might have been in former times, it would be much more in its bearing upon all classes, so economical, and which,
so now; and if the same feeling had not yet been ex- at the same time, would bring to the Treasury so large
hibited against it as in 1816, when its operation was an amount of revenue as the system of direct tuxation—
fresh in men's minds and experience, he still felt that ( Hear, hear.) If equitably laid on, there was no system of
it would not come into operation without exciting as much op- taxation rnore just or more calculated to afford the population
position—(Hear.) A great portion of the people Would look . of the country that relief which, under pressing circumstonces,
upon the tax as imposed, not merely for the purpose of recruit- they had a right to expect. Indirect taxation was to a very
tug the revenue, but effecting that without having recourse to great extent in the hands of the individual who was taxed. It
other and more legitimate modes of taxation, and to the rodue- depended upon the powers of consumption, and gave the Exe-
tion of monopolies. His (Mr. C. Butlers) greatest objection was cutive a most despotic power. It gave to the functionaries who
foended on the mere circumstance of its unpopularity, an unpo- were invested with the power of collecting the revenues, an
polarity which experience had shown would go on increasing' influence almost despotic. Before he consented to a system of
while it continued to be levied, in consequence of the inquisito- taxation, such as was proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet, he
rial nature of its machinery. That was an argument which (Dr. Bowring) should see that the proposition of the Right
might, in some degree, apply to all direct taxation, and lion. Baronet was not so vexatious or inquisitive as it was. He
certainly it did to a great extent ; but, above all, was afraid of agreeing to the resolution proposed, because he
it applied to a taxation of whic the machinery thought that by doing so, he should be removing all check on
was so peculiarly odious. He must say it appeared to him an' extravagant expenditure.--(Hear, hear, hear.) The Right
unwise thing, in a Government which took so large a portion Hon. Baronet hart greatly understated what would be
of a man's income from him for public purposes, to let him the results of the tax. Since the tax . had last
see the exact amount which he paid.—(Ministerial cheers.), been imposed, twenty-six years had passed away,
That doctrine elicited a cheer from the Right lion. Baronet," during which ie resources of the country had been greatly
who seemed surprised at what he (Mr. C. Buller) stated, but; developed and its commercial relations had been extended, and
the only cause of surprise was, that in taking a Conservative; yet the Right Hon. Gentleman took as the groundwork of his
course, he (Mr. C. Buller) should find himself opposed to a' calculations the amount of the income of the country 26 years
revolutionary course, on the part of the Right Hon. Baronet.' since. The House of Commons, by affirming the resolution,
But it did certainly seem to him (Mr. C: Buller) very unwise would be placing in the hands of the Right Hon. Baronet a
in the Government to take so large a portion of every roan's! much larger sum than had been calculated on. It would be
income from him for public purposes, and at the same time let' giving an encouragement to increased expenditure. He ( Dr.
each individual see the exact amount which he paid ; but more. Bowring) would acknowledge that he was not sorry to ace a de-
especially it appeared to him exceedingly unwise, when so ficit in the Exchequer. It was a security for economy—that
large a portion of income thus taken from the subjects. security would be removed and the Treasury would be so re-
of the realist went not to support the public estab- plenished from this tax, that the Right Hon. Baronet would
lislsments, but to_ pay the national debt. (The have the means of doing., vast deal of mischief, of maintaining
Hon. Gentleman here wetted his back on the gallery, old abuses, and of introducing new ones.. When once direct
which, together with the indistinctness of the tone in which he taxation was established the revenue could be increased in the
at the moment spoke, rendered hies very imperfectly heard.), simplest possible manner ; when once the machinery was per-
We understood him to say that if direct taxation were imposed fected by adding an additional penny or three halfpence, the tax
to any considerable extent, and people saw that they could hot might be increased by a million ; and when they recollected
get rid of it, they would turn from direct taxation and look to how the impot fincier in France had been increased by
being freed from the national debt as an only means of relief.. the addition of an occasional centime once now and then,
It might be said that that was out of the question, but he must he thought the House ought to pause before they sane-
confess that he had apprehensions that such would be the case, tinned the resolution proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet.
Those were the arguments which the Right Hon. Baronet was' The Right Hon. Baronet was about to throw open the gates of
obliged to use when he defended the malt tax, and he (Mr: immorality and mendacity, for people thinking the tax not a
C. Beier) thought that the whole history of English taxation necessary or a just one would seek to shirk and evade it by
showed whether it was a wise thing to draw it froM every ingenious method they could think of, indifferent whe-
indirect taxation. Since this Revolution the land tax had ther the act were right or wrong. The Right Hon. Baronet
been got rid of—one of the next taxes that were given, would do better if he placed the legacy duty on real pro-
up were the assessed taxes. 'these were given up since the perty. Still it must be acknowledged that his tariff made a
people were better represented in that House. The house tax great step towards commercial reform.—(Hear, hear.) But
and half the window taxes were taken off since. There was anoe he (Dr. B.) was sorry that French articles were left untouched.
ther matter which he (Mr. C. Buller) wished to mention to the Without reference to the conduct of France, we ought to
House, that was the state of the law with . respect to the taxa: follow the sound advice of Mr. Deacon Hume, and do what
tion of stock in trade. Under the Act of Elizabeth there was we felt to be just and right, whatever foreign nations might
no doubt that " stock in trade" was as liable to the payment of do. The duties on brandies anti silks from France ought to
rates for the poor as any other description of property, but owing be reduced, not for the benefit of France, but for the benefit
to the difficulty of collecting the tax, an application was made of our own people ; at least that on silk should not be per-
to the Court of Queen's Bench, to ascertain whether " stock in nutted to exceed what the Act of Pailiament intended, which
trade" was liable for poor-rates, and when it was decided by that was 30 per cent., while, in reality, it amounted to 60 per cent.
Court that it was as liable to the payment of those rates But he was glad to see that we had acted in a mutual spirit
as any other visible property, the very next 'Session an towards Tuscany, to whom we owed much, and who had set
Act of Parliament was passed for the purpose of ex- the example of free trade within her limited sphere. But
empting that description of property altogether.—(Hear.) .we ought not to continue the 5 per cent. on customs. The
His opinion was, that if the income tax were now imposed it 4s. on coal exported was wrung, and he was sure it would be a
would be made permanent, and increased from year to year, failure ; it would do great injury to our shipping, and give a
and that instead of being an improvement in the finances of the great advantage to Belgium, which a,e, present carried on such
country, it would place the national debt on a most precarious a severe competition against us. Xt would certainly destroy
basis. 'The Right Hon. Baronet seemed to have greatly un- our coal export trade. No doubt the tariff of the Right
derealculated the revenue he would derive from the income tax. Hon. Baronet contained some good items, still, objecting to
He had also miscalculated the amount derivable from the old the tax on principle, he (Dr. B.) must vote against the reso-
property tax, without considering the increase of wealth of the lotion.
country since. In 1815 there were assessed 170,000,0001. Mr. S. O'BRIEN would vote for the resolution of the Right
of property, from which 28,850,0001. were exempted, leaving Hon. Baronet, because he (Mr. O'Brien) remembered it was
a clear remainder of 141,150,0001., which, at 7d. in the pound, on the principle so often contended for on that side—that was
would produce, instead of 3,500,0001., 4,100,000/., being at a property tax. He also thought the Right Hon. Baronet jus-
least 400,0001. more than the Right Hon. Baronet calculated. 'tilled in proposing the tax, for the exigences of the State re•
This was under the old property tax. But had the nation quired it. As far as the expectation of deriving increased re-
made no progress in wealth since, admitting that the rental of venue from a reduction of the duties on sugar and timber went,
land seas not higher now than in 1815? He (Mr. B.) he thought they had arrived at the maximum point of re-tue-
hail returns to show that the gains and profits arising from pro. tion ii, the duties un colonial sugar. With respect to timber
fessional and mercantile pursuits had greatly increased since the question, he presumed, was whether a preferer ce
that time. In the four years ending 1815 the lezaey duty was should be given to increased taxation on timber, as a source of
paid on 26,000,000/. of personal property. In the e our years revenue, or to the system of direct taxation now proposed by
ending 1839 it was paid on 42,935,000/.—( Hear, hear.) the Right Hon. Baronet, for admitting as he (air. S. O'Brien)
There was no reason to suppose that the legacy duty bore any did, that the revenue could be derived from the duties on tim-
undue proportion to the amount of property ; end he thought, ber, he must however say, that that could only be obtained by
therefore, they should take it for granted that both equally in- imposing increased duties on that article. The Noble Lord, the
creased. He did not, however, rest upon that alone ; and Member for Sunderland (Lord Howiek) seemed to think that
, there were other data to corroborate his statement. They had if they carried out the system of changing the differential duties
i „„e-led since the war, 25,000,0001. of taxes, besides the pro- to its utmost extent, they would obtain a large amount of r
"ruaeo. ; ; add the revenue now derived from the diminished nue ; but it seemed to him (Mr. O'Brien-) that the Right.
pees, e, • - 10,000,0001. less ; so that the increased con- Hon. Baronet, in proposing to review the tariff, meant to do all
sources was on `-d enabled us, to a certain extent, to that the Noble Lord could effect. It was true that '25,000,000/.
NI rnptioti of the country •r..- It seemed to him, there- of taxation had been remitted since the war, and that no one
etiake rip fait dikiinishe,d taxation.- - -,king for a good deal had laid his finger on any of these taxes for the purpose of re-
foie, that Ole Hot 11811 }Reediest was b:.. 7rtieularly im- Dewing them. Would they renew the Post-office duties ? No
more money than he vilkild ifidf: Ile prcrUk4.... , "re dis- one would deny that the reduction in that source of revc-
press that upon the Hauge, beeausd ill f;tv'emtitent ~,,..„,„ - rine was attended with the greatest general benefit. Would they
`em the house tax? Why all the country would be
poled to be extravagant, they Would not tie tile taaa extraties.
' st that tax too. Would they renew the beer tax ?
eats if iliac had 4dlooo/: or 500,000/. inifre theh thq firud eal. ' re--.
culated on for niCeihsle ihgr eXpenditiare. What, be Wottftl of not- 'tom the weight of such a tax would fall were
ask, was the necessity for an ititesteads' ohs' at the present tiro- Thesse tenon v... " classes, who were not represented in that
ment ? He had no doubt that, if the ner3dietles 61 t'he' nation among the humble,. Q O'Brien's) mind, the Right II li.
rceptired it, if we were engaged in an expensive wit 1* Avi Hosese, and in his (Mr. t.. -osity in not renewing that tax.
•-
great object; ilia eountry would submit to. such a burden. Berens!! lead shown great gene. '.h had been suggested by
They Oritrltl sal it vtas utaltht, but that they should bear its He would refer to another tax, wane_ hid to throw all the
iiiinstid—tliat it itas inquisitorial, but that they should the Hon. alematet" fey Lambeth, who w,_..-ntleman recorn-
stioalli /.0 thl4t Irterinvgitiellet=--that it was burdensome, burden on the landed interest: That Hon. bee; they came
butt that It was better to endttfrt that burden than mended the levying of a tux tosses y.- persons when , ~,st in
tti be ,dvOuri II a, foreign array. But he should soy in the into the possession of land. Of all those none were Sop.,
flr4t, ilal4, tliA the 10.,iglit Holt. Baronet,- In attempting to jus. principle as the tax proposed by the Right Hen. Baronet, be.
tify his proposal, had eltra*rigkiiil)•ekageratCd the necessities cause every. person at all able to pay must contribute to it.
of the country ; and that he had, in the Seethid tildeei fallen into He (Mr. O'Brien) had therefore no hesitation in acquiescing in
an equally extravagant depreciation of its resoureet Hes saw the general principle of an income tax. With respect to what had
nothing in the state of our finances which could give rise to the been said against taxing the profits and emoluments of professions
14iigiiiige held I:/ the Right Hon. Baronet, as if the country he (111 r. O'Brien )thought that those profits ought to b 3 taxed, but
Were placed in difficulties Mina whiebsit could onlyle extricated at a lower rate than-other sources of income. He wou'd take the
by an Menem tame. The history of ottr financial embarrass- present occasion of expressing his gratitude to the Right lion.
Inertia Was perfectly cibaiotts. Those enthareassments had arisen Baronet for his proposition .of taxing the owners of large
Ira thE gxeedsii4 love of economy whith had prevailed in that estates in Ireland who did not reside in that country. It.
House since the passitig of ilia Bjorn/ Bill. He would, how- would act as an absentee tax; and it always appeared to him
ever, take that opportunity of expreislog his approval of one re- that it was desirable to impose a tax of that description.
ductiun at least in our taxation, which liskl been a con- Whatever, therefore, the [tight Hon. Baronet received from
scant subject of taunt to Honourable Gentlemen oppo, Ireland from that source would not be a loss, but a gain, to
site—he meant the reduction in the Post-office revenue, that country. Hei thought the Bight Pion. Gentleman had
He had no hesitation its saying that if he looked back to the Re- acted vrisely in roe
xtendingthe property tax to Ireland; and he
form Bill for the one great benefit which it had done to the much doubted whether, by its imposit a ,n, he would have obi aitted
common people of the cOuntry—to the great masses which were a much greater revenue than would have carried the expenses
unrepresented in that House—it appeared to him that the Post- of its caution. He (lid not_thinkllie confessed, there was
office Reform was the one measure which had &Me more good anything objectionable in the Right Hon. Baronet's attempting
largest possible revenue from and he
to the people than all the others put together'. Nut to syrak to obtain the
o legitimate spirits,
of the direct comforts and advantages which wore covrterred lry thought there coulddbe
.7
doubtssrire object of taxation.
that measure, be valued it Itz,,cause it treated the people as But he certainly had sonic
'would whither, by the increase of
moral beings, having intellects ,net having hearts, baying lavas the duty, the
(t-,tveellnie did not wish receive.tomar increase of revenue.
to communicate, and affections to interchange, and enabled the
At
the same
time,
was another part complaint.ofrethaenYfinaneial planur upon
of
pour man to gratify his feelings to the greatest keite'nt —( Hear, that subject..
Right Hon. Baronet to which he wished to advert—he
hear.) That taunt came with a very bad grace from those who the
;proposal of imposing a tax importation'
upon the of
had quitted the party that originated the Act, and who did not meant the
he doubted
coal. He confessedthat the policy of such a mea-
t 'l, i. ""1-.beCariae (boy knew that the.great body of the
i propose 1 s elk,. . ' favour of it that sure, and he feared that the diminution of the importation
county
1 the people of, this cou Ma.' esy strongly /11
als e Orse —(1Ie Clear, hear.) would prevent the Right Hon. Baronet from deriving so large
re t could safely take stk.. a o ..
it
tax from that source as he anticipated. In conclusion, he had
1 T": yetd,-, , ore t 1 indeed'fallen off • but could be con.. a
of
rine reentre en , o
~to observe, that he aproved en the whole of the scheme the
,4 AIWS 'X Was inevitable, They were
tended that an ...eel to .has inevitable. Right Hon. Gentleman; and however much he regretted to
evenue vras to-
told that the old systenl il rn
ter:lg th6Aiei. Baronet came find himself compiled to differ from those with whom he UM-
tally inadequate. The Right
rtBr' i'atietl oriels that the ally agreed,he would feel it his duty to vote against the amend•
down and told them it was perfectly
I. 41
_their level. ment to the resolution. ,
taxes on articles of consurnS!an had reacuee
t.
~ . level, Mr. R. PA Lill ER thought the speech of the Hon. Gentle-
Because taxes oh particular articles :'eaCl reacheilittltatta4vauoge
man who had just sat down must be mast satisfactory to the
because they could not resort to those article; - ;.." seaireed no Government, stating as he did that he felt bound as a man o
to the revenue, therefore it was contended there tee. e that honour to support theiameasure.—(Hear, hear.) With respect
artioles to be taxed. That argument had been met see. -sr to the income tax no one could be more sensible of its evils
side of the House by the simple statement that since the last's e, thanhimself ; but he felt that in the peat exigency which had
country
there had been taken off 2,5 millions of taxes. If gentlemen I .., -en, that proposal wasthe best adopted to relieve the _
4 millions of an, ... difficulties. one that there
wanted direct taxation, let them resume the 3 or
Those from' tt., •„fley
It.was not denied by any u ~
_d,
assessed taxes which had been taken off since the war,of seven millions and a half t-, be s pplie
itself
• taxes which Would not interfere with trade and would was it dent.. , the country would endeavour to relies'. nit _
wereinsuiorial
'nus results of and he tiontga. .tent. He thought that the
return a certain revenue without any of the odt
removed by
an income tax. Brit the 'Right Hon. Gentleman .
also told from that einhareare. •
' - -- ee- ,• be to a great extentwhole .peritat.
, them that there was no remedy to be fouud by lowering the evils of the tax mliinli•. ',lading for the
taxes S.-that the produce would not be sufficiently great for the adopting a system. of goctip. that it wo air. -n observed,
%necessary urgency, But there who a third
eotirse*open, to Ho would concur in what haheelbet.
..

. c~

::111