The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-19 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 19, 1842

to the East Indies a preference of 3d. a pound. Te'liw, he
(Lord Howick) believed. that that amounted to the full value
of the article itself.—( Hear, hear.) Suppose that the East
Indies could raise tobacco at something less than double the
co t for which it could be produced in America, what would be
the result of the Right Hon. Baronet's measure'? The effect
would be, that the whole supply of tobacco would, in a short
time, lie derived from India, and not from. America. 'What
would be the further effect? Beyond all doubt, it would be 'a
retaliatory effect in America ; yet there would be no per-
cep!ible difference or advantage to the consumer.---( Hear.)
No advantage of any stet or description to the consumer.
bin, at the same time there would be a direct, loss of eight
per cent. upon the revenue of 3,500,0001. In the course of
time the American supply of tobacco would gradually fall off
and the Fast Indian supply would increase—if that took place
the British people would 10. e 8 per cent. without any benefit
whatever to the British consumer or any real benefit, as he
(Lord Howick) was prepared to prove, to the country. If the
measure was once adopted and an attemet was afterwards
made to retra e the laity steps then taken or recall the error
the House would be met with the cry of vested interests (as
they were •Iways in the habit of being met in that House when
ever a question of that nature was mooted), and it was well
known that those interests would be too strong for
them when they came to remedy the evil and
then their only course would be to saddle the
people with a new tax in disguise, wider the name of a protec
tion—( Cheers) —and while that was dune to India at the same
time, with the most " wonderful consistency "—( Laughter)—
they preVented the people of this country from cultivating
tohaceo, lest it should be interfering with " vested interests;"
upon that principle, he ( Lore Howiil) supposed it was that his
lamented friend Lord Sydenham had brought in a Bill only a
few years ago to prohibit the growth of tobacco in Ireland ; he
( Lord Howick) was never so astonished as when he heard the
!light lion. Baronet say that the late Government had re-
ferred the question of equelismg the duty upon East
Indian and West Indian to a Committee, and that they
had equalised the duty on rum and sugar. With regard to rum
and sugar at that moment the supplies were entirely
derived from the West Indies. There could not be
any loss to the revenue; On the • contrary, there would be a
chance of extending the supply. Then with regard to cheese
and butter, it appeared the duty upon those articles amounted
to 375,000/. There was now no protection whatever in favour
of the colonies—in the same way with regard to tallow. The
The duty on colonial tallow was now Is. a cwt., while the duty
on foreign tallow was 3s. 2d. a cwt. The duty on foreign
tallow amounted to 186,00 e/. ; but when the colonies had
already an advantage, why should the duty be reduced, leaving
the duty on foreign tallow at 3s. 2d. ? On the whole, he (Lord
Howick) felt bound to express his opinion, that the policy of
the measure proposed by her Majesty's Government was not
satisfac ore, or based upon sound principles. He believed they
could raise a very large portion of money which they re-
quired, by mi which could not be so injurious -to the
country, or so direet a pressure upon the people. Parliament
was bound to inc ease the revenue of the country by diffe-
rential duties, which at the same time would operate as a
relief to the consumer. They were bound to do that upon
every principle of expediency, but the tax proposed was one
of a peculiar and different character ; the situation which he
(Lord Howick) held not long ago under the late Govern-
ment caused several letters to be written to him upon the
subject of the proposed measure; amongst them he had re-
ceived one letter from a gentleman who had served as lieu-
tenant' in the naval service for many years ; at the age of
23 he was otiliged,to retire in consequence of a severe wound
he had received, the wound was so severe that he was in-
capacitated from following any other trade or profession ; he was
lia ing, himself and his family upon his half-pay, that officer was
now receiving an income of 1531. a year, which came exactly
within the scope of the Right Hon. Baronet's measure.—
( Hear, hear.) He ( Lord Howick) knew that the Right Hon.
Baronet would say that it was very easy to find out. individual
cases of hardships—(" Hear, hear" from Sir R. Peel)—un-
doubtedly it was very easy to find such cases of hardship.—
(Cheers and counter-cheers)—but every one should admit that
the Hight Hon. Baronet's measure affected thousands of indi-
viduah and families in the country, who were circumstanced
• similarly to the officer to whom he (Lord Howick) had alluded
--( Hear, )rear.) While it affected these people they had no.
possible refuge, and through the sum which they were obliged to
pay under it, was in itself small, it was to them a sum of
very great importance—(hear)-and in many instances it
might be unjust and excessive. He might cite several instances
cf hardship which might arise under the proposed measure;
they were so numerous, one could scarcely remember them ;
but there was one thing quite sure, that in any event the mea-
sure pressed more severely upon the humblest classes than it
did upon those possessing large properties. For instance, an
Irish landed proprietor with 70,0001. or 800,000/. a year would
not pay the tax which a wounded soldier, whose only means of
subsistence was 15W. a year, should be obliged to pay.—( Hear. )
But therewas another consideration which he confessed weighed
very powerfully with him, in inducing him to say that he would
net consent to such a tax as this. It was this—that he knew well
from past experience, that these protective interests, as they
were called, were so powerful, and always had so great interest
in that House, that he was persuaded they never would make
that reform in our commercial policy, which he believed it was
of the greatest importarce for the welfare of this country to
establish. If they said they would grant no new taxes unless
the interest of the community were considered, be believed if
they did not succeed now they very speedily would.—( Hear. )
For though the Hight llon. Gentleman had a great majority
who would support him and the income-tax, yet would he find
that by and by—as had been the case in 1816—when
the repeal of the income-tax came to be considered,
they would leave him, and would be found walking in
the lobbies. He would say that it was a consideration which
ought very greatly to weigh with the House, before adopting
this tariff, which wou'el be accompanied with great loss of re-
venue, and while it would be difficult to repeal, would be the
danger which might arise from the difficuliy of maintaining
the tax. There were some other points on which, if he did
not feel that he had already taken up the time of the House
too long, he should have been anxious to have entered on would once more repeat, that in voting with his Right lion.
Friend against the income tax proposed by the Right Hon.
Gentleman, he was voting, not against the adoption of any
measures, however severe, however onerous, which might be
really necessary for maintaining the honour and sa ety, and
stivency of the country. Show him the necessity, and he re-
peated he was ready to vote for the income tax ; but lie could not
reconcile it to his sense of duty to his constituents, and to the
distressed people of this country to impose this burden on them,
unless at the same time they adopted all those measures which
were in their power for the mitigation of the burdens they were
now suffusing.—( Hear, hear.) He should be perfectly pre-
pared when the time came to vose for such taxes es set re really
necessary to maintain the revenue of the country.—(Cheers. )
Lord J. RUSSELL said he wished to say only a few words.
He considered very much with reference to the Right Hon.
Gentleman's speech, the arguments which might be adduced
in favour of the course he professed, and the result he had come
to was very similar to that of his Noble Friend who •had just
sat down. He thought it was their duty, in the first place, to
do away with those burdens which were most onerous to the
Commons of the e. untry ; and he thought that it was a great
omission in the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet that in sugar
he eas now raising up a new monopoly ; and whereas the
West Indies in 1841 produced more than sufficient for
the consumption of this country, they were now
unable to furnish enough ; the remaining produce therefore
came from the East Indies, and we were every year increasing
the quantity anti the amount of capital which was ve3ted in that
country. He did not consider that what was proposed with
respect to the reduction of duties was good—reducing them in
many instances very suddenly from a very high prohibitory
duty dowu to 20, 10, a 5 per eent.;•totally inconsistent with
the plan proposed with respect to corn—a 50s price and a4O
per cent. duty.—( Hear, hear.) He therefore thought, that
with regard to cninmereial matters in sugar and corn, repre-
sented as they were by great interests, defended by rich mer-
chants and great planters, they did not dare to apply those
duties which they had themselves acknowledged to be the true
and just principles of commerce.—( Hear, hear,.) Last year
that Hon. Gentlemen said that they (the Opposition) brought
forward. their mesures on account of their own necessities.
That taunt might do very Well then, but, in the present year,
they (the Ministry) had a great majority—they is-ere looking
with a patriotic view to the benefi,s of their country ; yet, in
respect to one of the main a ticks of consumption they had
not attempted to carry those principles into rifest. The tariff
raised up new colonial interests, new advantages and new re.
sieictions in favour -of interests which had yet to be made.
It would much injure our inter course with foreign countries,
and would destroy the commerce of the country. Be it recol-
lected unless they had very strong re-sons to collect a re-
venue, or telt; bound towards a great body of men who
were existing by„some peculiar class of industry, that any
legislation on thug subject would be mere mischief. Their bu-
siness was riot to legislate alone—to impose new burdens, and
in niece wantonness to a number of prohibitory duties
—it was the most mischievous ceurse they could pur-
sue —(Hear, hear, hear.) Such libeing the case with
regard to the general commercial policy, he had next
to consider what might still remain to be done
on the subject of finance. The Right lion. Gentle-
man said there was an enormous deficiency. lie thought his
Night Him. Friend had shown that if the plans of last year
had been adopted, that deficiency would not have been so great.
—(I feer, hear.) Their abhorrence of slavery and the slave
trade might have been so greet that they could not have adopted
his Right lion. Friend's plan with regsrd to sugar, but he
thought that so far as finance was concerned, 1,800 000/. would
have been secured, and the deficiency now, instead of being
2,500 oeol.,would not have been more than 600,000/ or 700,000 a.,
but it was so enormous, because they had neglected to adopt
the means which would have tended to depress it.--( Hear. ).
As mittens at present stood, he would not be bound to say that
he would refuse measures of taxation which would make
it clear that by the next year the revenue would be made
equal to the expenditure.—( Hear, hear.) lie would not now
no into any defedce of the measures of last year, but in 1840 his
lien. .Friend proposed measures of taxation to make the income
equal. to the expenditure. In 1841, likewise, measure were
proposed which, as they considered, would have the tendency
to make the revenue equal the expenditure ; he was, there-
fore, on prineiple, ready to admit that now, in 1842, they ought
to make some exertion to that effect ; and not having begun
with this measure last year, and the affairs in India and China
still requiring expense, agreatcr taxation might now be required
than last year, but he could not conceive, even making. this
admission, that the deficieney'was so great as to make it neces-
sary, to resort to the income tax.—( Ile?, hear.) He thought
it was admitted, as far as principle went, that it was a tax to be
resorted to only in times of very great emergency—admitting
that fresh laws might be imposed in the emergency of war, still
the emergency must be very great indeed which would
require such an exertion as this.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
And with regard to the objections to the income tax in
point of authority. He had first the authority of the Right.
l ion. Baronet, the First Lord of the Treasury, and then of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, against adopting this tax in pr -
ferenee to others. When, in 1810, his Hon. Friend (Lord J.
Russell) proposed an addition of five per cent. to the CusteMs
and Excise, and ten per cent. to the assessed taxes, tile Right
Hon. Gentleman said they thought it the best course that could
be pursued ; and with the deficiency of less than 2,500,0001.,
to resort to a new tax on general articles of consumption, or an
income tax, was not advisable.—( Hear, hear.) • On another
occasion, when the Hon. Member for Birmingham brought
forward a measure proposing a tax on income, the Right
lion. Gentleman gaves no opinion on the expediency of such a
tax ; but the Chancellor of the Exchequer said it was not
advisable to lay a tax on capital in a diffused state, but that it
should be had out of its sources.—.( Hear, hear.) Such at any
rate was his opinion in 1840. That was his objection to
are income tax. Ile ( Lord J. Russell) had seen it reported
universt}
elrlaYgtu:nej
elsewhere, that it was better to lay taxes on capital which was
distributed. He did not mean that the Right Honourable
Geetlemen were justified in coining to an opinion, now that
pthreafterwaitt,lhoonuottsitonerveseorryt gtroeaitt._ne(ccaesiatry;
an income tax was necessary, but he only stated them as
and difficult}'
wyfaiancsgt, was his (Lord John Russell's) objection
to the measure of an income tax. He thought the deficiency of
') 500 0001 might be easily supplied by reducing the restrictive
'
system, and the addition of such- axes as might make -up the
whole sum required, even if they had recourse to the increase
of vans' aseSsed taxes which had been taken off to the
,0(0,0001. by Lc rd Ripon, hi 1823, for four-
asilltleoteulnettkhl oerci;:iages and her es.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
evil of a tax of this kind was not confined
to this ; it was site which was universally felt, and its beim-,
felt, is a better argument against et than the most
0
refined
which could he made use of—he meant its
:t:vould oblige the honest tradesman of small
inquisitorial eltaracter.—(Hears hear.) effectswoui
P •
were great
to reveal the amount of his income, which would be
I made public to the community; and again, it

would induce a man who wished- to conceal the
be equally noxious, if not, more so, inasmuch as it
state of his affairs, to attempt, by evasion or false
returns to avoid this tax, and induce a great part of the com-
munity to depart from that truth and sincerity which ought to
characterise proceedings on all occasions.—( Hear, hear.)
trig oh j
strangest objection of all against this tax was, that it was con-
sideredtheirwould
by everybody as a last resource. 11,s Rig
been reducedht Hon. Friend
had told them that 26,000,000/• of taxes had
since the peace. The idea in foreign countries was, that they
were reduced to resort to that tax which they must impose—
that. tax by which they sustained themselves when there was a
inuirny at the Nore, and the French army
victorious anise: over the whole of Europe—when Napoleon
raisol his gigantieefforts, end they were °lilted to,strain every
effort to resist him. He was disposed to consider that having
..:itniahs.niedd:re therniettalehsi,
nti isnasdn,
question
tywere carrying their
resort to a strong measure of taxation would raise us in the
For
ch
estimation of foreign countries. He was still of opinion that they
should make the revenue equal to the expense,. but by making it
so by this measure, they were making a struggle, as it were.
whenaker should
; ftsohchcoettlittleiße
ibagSgeiplateii
mo-
tioni
nhfairatteeeoxefli
ttlhtte tcsheßheni
Gen-
tlemane
ght
made a modification of his measures, he ( Lord Jeltus-
sell) should consider those modifications ; but he thought it net
fair to press on the Right Hon. Gentleman any particula.-
modification. He thought the argument used by Mr. Pitt
during the war was, that there were incomes which were
ife incomes, and would cease with life; yen placed them on
the same fteit.ng as tl e possess° •
- of a heavy rent-roll—in fact,
the tax would be very objectionable. lie ( Lord J. Russell)
thought if the tax were objectionable in the time of war, it
would be doubly so in time of peace; anti that it might be
opposed with stronger reasons now than then—( Hear )—more
especially if he understood the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
that he considered this tax the most preferable one that could
be imposed. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, " Oh, but we
will not agree to imposing a tax on articles of consumption,
because they affect the condition of the poor, and because he
thought that men of property ought to be taxed."—( Hear. )
As the Right Hon. Gentleman was so careful of the comforts
of the poor, perhaps the next time the House went into Com-
mittee, the question might be put, " Why should not the people
have food cheaper ?"—( Cheers.) If it was the motive of the
Right Hon. Gentleman to guard the comforts of the poor, he
ought not to forget altogether the price of corn.—(Much
cheering.) For his part, he would give his vote in Com-
mittee against the proposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
aril if that proposition should be carried, and come back to the
House, he should propose resolutions, and take the sense of the
House upon them ; and he would take the sense of the House
as to the state of the country now, and he would show that
there was no necessity to resort to tire odious and most unjust
tax which the Right Hon. Gentleman proposed.—(Cheers,,)
The House then went into Committee, when
Sir R. PEEL rose and said—Sir, I can assure the Noble
Lord that the motion which he teas given this night to the
House of his intention to offer determined opposition to nay
proposition has nots'in the slightest degree disapeointed or
deterred me.—( Great cheering troathe Ministerial benches.)
Notwithstanding the silence of the other night—(Cheers)—
notwithstanding the calmness with which my proposition was
met, anti the declaration that it would be considered coolly,
and would be disposed of upon some one pi inciple, I believed
that in the attempt which I was about to make to meet the dif-
ficulties in which the country was involved by the financial
administration of the late Government—( Great cheering and
counter cheering)—l Pit the most perfect confidence, that
whatever proposition I should make—whether by a continuance
of the system of loan, or by the imposition of a tax upon the
capital and property of the country, or by new bun dens on the
working classes by taxes on the articles of consumption—l
never anticipated that I should have an easy task.—(ministerial
cheering.) But I felt this -I . felt confident that my chief
opponents would
ba those who had involved the country
in these difficulties.—(Hear, and vehement Tory cheering.)
But—(looking to Lord J. Russell)—you shall not divert the
attention of the country from the real point at issue..—( Great
cheering.) This is not a ,question of eau-de-cologne.—
(Cheers and laughter.) This is not a question of colonial
asses.—( Renewed laughter and cheers.) Sir, I never saw the
Right Hon. Gentleman so much excited as he was on the ques-
tion of colonial asses.—( Laughter. ) He contemplated with
the calmness of a philosopher the annual deficiency of two or
three millions; but the thought of colonial asses being brought
into competition with foreign asses, with a protecting duty of
Is. 6d. per head, fired him with indignation.—(Lauehter and
cheers.) But that is not the question. The que lion is this.
You having had the financial administratioa of this country for
five }ears, in what. condition is the country now placed ?—( Tory
cheers.) But you say that the time is come when your tamper-
ing with the savings' banks— (Cheers)—and your five per
cent. increase on customs, will no longer avail— (Loud
cheers)—and that the time is come when some vigor-
ous measure must bs resorted to, to restore the
finances of the coup ry.—(Cheers)—that you would support
a severe and vigorous measure to equalise the deficiency.—
( Hear.) But there is a deficit upon what you will have to
pay this year. There is a deficit of three millions since I spoke
last on this subject.—( Hear.) It has been necessary to send
additional reinforcements abroad, in consequence of your policy—
( Renewed and vehement Tory Cheers)—and it will be my
duty, in order to take the means necessary for vindicating the
honour of the British army, to propose additional estimates to
those which I have atlready laid before the House.—(Hear,
hear.) The actual deficiency at present is 2,570,00 e/. Now
the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Baring) was delighted with
en error which, after pushing through my tariff, he was fortu-
nate enough to ciscover. 'That was, that I had made the de-
ficiency 2,570,01. V., when it was really no more than
2,41)0,0001., and he taunted me therefore with my arith-
metical inaccuracy. The difference was on account of
the 100,000/. which I thought necessary to provide for any
demand that might arise —(3linisterial cries of " Hear,
hear.") But, Sir, I must deprive myself of the consolation
which the Right [lon. Physician offers to- me—(Laughter)—
because, as to this deficiency of 2,569,000/., it must be pro-
vided for by vote.—( Hear, hear.) But I think that a provi-
dent Minister will provide, not merely for that which may be
necessary within the year, but what may be the expenses at-
tending the measures in whici he is engaged. I thought that
the expedition to China would be, fdr the year 1843, a defi-
ciency of 1,300,0001. ( Hear, hear.) But I propose merely
to include in tie estimate 500,C00/., because I thought it
might be necessary for all actual payments in the course of the
year ; but that leaves 800,0001. of actual expense unpiovided
for. Still I thought it would be better, in the first place,
to provide for the demands which are instant and to snake pre-
paration for the deficiencies we may expect. Now there is a
clear net deficiency of three millions, which we have to pro-
vide for in some way or other; and the question is, how is
that to be done? All here concur that it ought to be pro-
vided for by adding to the revenue. All appear to abandon the
policy of increasing in time of peace the debt of tire country.
I e ished to avoid any imposts which would embarrass our com-
merce, or to add to the burdens of the working classes. I pro
pose, therefore, by a tax upon the income of the country, to be
borne by these, the greater number of whom, comparatively
speaking, are in easy circumstances, and this will . produce the
sum of 3,700,000/. The question then is, if my facts are ad-
mitted, if it is admitted that the policy of reducing the protect-
ing duties is admitted, and that this sum must be provided for
in some way or other, the question between me and the late
Government—the question which the House has to decide is—
whetter I am to be aliowed to relieve the country from its
financial difficulties, or the Government is to be restored to
those who are answerable for these difiieulties.—( Great Tory
cheering.) The Noble Lord says that if I had proposed any,
other measure he would have given me his cordial support.
But the Noble Lord said lie would oppose the tax upon spirits
iLI attempted that, and the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. B. )
said that he considered an increased duty on spirits was injudi-
cious. (111 c Right Honourable Gentleman here made some ob-
servations across the table, in answer to Mr.
which was not heart!. ) Sir, I did anticipate that if I
resorted to a tax on salt or leather, I should be told how ob-
noxious those imposts were; and that if I should propose any
other, I should have received the Noble Lord's most cordial
support. But, Sir, the Noble Lord says, that as I have pm-
posed an income tax, he will bring forward resolutions against
me, and those resolutions will involve the Corn-laws and the
sugar duties; and it will be for the !Lowe to say whether you
will adopt an income tax or a fixed duty on corn. —( Hear,
hear.) Hon. Gentlemen whosay that I will ruin the culti-
vation of oats in Ireland by arty reduction of the duty
on foreign grain will, of course, oppose the Noblei Lord.
I had thought it was the prevailing opinions on the other side,
that there was no more just impost than that on foreign tim-
ber. I thought it had been said, tint the result of that im-
post was, not only that it shut. us out from foreign mark -ts,
but prevented us from making an exchange of our manufac-
tures. I thought it was urged that we were c,,mpelled, bs
the operation of those duties, to give a preference to Canada
timber. The proposal I made was to attach a nominal duty
on Canada timber. The loss to the revepue, I know, will be
considerable ; but I reconcile myself to it from the im-
pression that, when you deal in great articles, it
is, upon the whose, good policy to make such a
reduction as shall insure to the consumer the benefit
of that reduction. Sir, I read a publication, edited by a gen-
tleman connected, and holding [nigh office with the party oppo-
site, who was always looks 0 upon as a great authority with
respect to commercial matters, mid I think myself the publi-
cations of Sir Henry Parnell are entitled to considerable weight
on many points—but I am sure 1 heard him appealed to from
the other side as almost conclnsive authority on matters 0
revenue—and I find him, selected as he was for high office,
stating an opinion with respect to the duty on timber, that it
may be too great a sacrifice of the revenue to remit all duties
on timber, and proposing, instead of a duty of 11. 10s., a much
lower duty. Ills proposal was a duty of 1/. ss. on foreign tim-
ber, and of 103. 011 colonial timber, and the duty which I propose
to take, is a duty of 253. on foreign timber, and a duty of 30s.
on deals, and to adroit colonial timber at a nominal duty.—
( Cheers from the Opposition.) Perhaps Gentlemen opposite
wish to have the duty on colonial timber retained, but I leave
the House to judge whict is the best plan acd the wisest policy
—to lower the duty and encourage the introduction of the best
timber, or to lay on a duty of 50s. on foreign timber, and a
-duty of 20s. on Canadian timber.—( Hear, hear.) Sir H. Par-
nell is right. I cannot help thinking if your object is
to relieve the pressure on the springs of the industry
of all classes—the ship-builders, the owners of :end, the
owners of manufactures, the builders of cottages, and
houses of every descriPti. n—if your object be to make
reductiotis in any article of consumption, I doubt verb
much whether the reduction on the duty of any other article
would give such general relief to the active industry of the
country as an increasing facility to time importation of foreign
timber—(Cheers)—if you can do it with justice to the interests
of the colonists. Sir, with respect to coffee, la,
really sur-
prised at the opposition
made to the reduction of the duty
1 After the evidence on
that article.—( Hear, hear.) r taken before
the Import Duties Committee as to the israelual increase
of
the
consumption of coffee—after the evidence :
gaen by the
keepers of coffee-houses in London as to the immense
importance which the labouring- classes attached to its
' -I did not expect to hear from the opposite side any
cneapness,
objections arising from the sacrifice of therevecue._(Cheers.)
Sir, I did consent to run the further risk of a large denoienes
in the. evenue, by lowering the duties on coffee, nuking tin.;
total deficiency to be supplied equal to 4,300,000/. Sir, Ido
not deny the force of the objections to a tax on the income of'
the people.—( Hear, hear.) I expected to hear that it was a
novel proposal in a time of peace, but is any man who
can be deceived by such fallacious and injudicious observa-
tions?—( Cheers.) Sir, it is the public, necessit..
evhiCh justi-
fies recourse to that tax—(Cheers)—whether it occurs in time
of peace or war. And because you do not hear the sound of
the cannon—(Cheers)—ringing in your ears, you draw the
hasty conclusion that you are living in profound peace.—
(Cheers.) Elevate your vision till it embraces your Indian
frontiers—look to the war you are carrying on to the West of
the Intlue.—(Cheers.) 1 say nothing of the justice of it—
but looking to the war we have to sustain, can you flatter your-
selvee that you are living in a time of peace?_( Hear, hear. )
Looking to the Syrian ex sedition, and concurrently with it to
the China expedition, I ask you doyou want proof of the. financial
necessities of the crisis—and can you be ignorant that you are
not living in a time of tranquillity ?—(('ileers. ) Sir, the
Noble Lord says—" Do not,inspose, this tax, because you
con-
vince foreign estates of your position." Sir, never mind what
the impression of foreign countries is.—(Loud cheers.) Do
that which you believe to be just arid consistent wills sound
policy, and if you have a deficiency to supply in time of peace,
and if 'you think it more just that the affluent classes should
contribute, than that ouebould impose taxation on articles of
consumption, inane recourse to that policy. _(Loud
caeer-
ing.) I think if you allow yourselves to be influenced
by paragraphs in newspapet s, you are not acting a
worthy part, if you attach importance eo them.—
((heers.) If you do that wheels
right, an.' which you be-
.

,- '"

r lieve to he sound policy, depend on it foreign countries will
be more likely to admire you- far the sacrifices you submit to,
and the exertions you make corresponding to the necessity of
the occasion, than if for the purpose of removing erro
neous notions on their part you adopt measures which you do
not believe to he just and consonant with your interests.—
( Cheers.) The question is whether you are to make up the
deficiency by an income tax or by laying taxes on articles of
consumption. 'here is no a:ternative.—(" Oh, oh," from
the Opposition.) to you mean to say that, by any other
means you can supply a deficiency of 4,000,00 C/. ? (Loud
Cheers.) Can you show any- middle course between the
imposition of a .tax . on property sod the imposition of
taxes on general consumption.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.' )
You may say you would have recourse to a house-tax—(Hear)
—to the assessed taxes ; but I can only say that Mr. Pitt, in
1797, adopted that course, and in the next year he resotted to
a property tax, and lie proposed a plan by which, taking the
assessed taxes of a preceding period as the teat of property, he
tried ih .getllo per cent. on an income tax. He was obliged to
abandon that, RAC/ believe the House would agree it was more
inconsistent than a prsellereLtax. An income tax is objected
to as being inquisitori :1. tot deny the forte of the übjec-
tion—( Hear)s— but Ibelicve ill 'tax of three per cent. ou
the hit:owes of the people fur the peapose of raisins! supplies
which are absolutely necessary for 'the' country, is infinitely
less onerous and inore just than any other tax you could
im,:ose.—(Cheers.) I hive a strong conviction that if
this proposition receives the sanction of the House
the actual sum which each person will contribute will be ex-
ceedingly small.— ( clear.) I have a strong conviction that if
the whole of this plan receives the sanction of the House, there
will be a diminution in the cost of living, which will repay to
t he contributor a large portion of the tax.--( Cries of " Hear.")
Take the case of a man of 5,000/. a-year. He will contribute
to the income tax 15: 1. per annum. But I say my firm belief
is, that if these proposals be sanctioned by the Ilt use, the
saving in the cest of living may be set off against the 150/.
which he will contribute, and I believe his burden would there-
fore be lees than it would be under any other tax which we
could impose.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord takes the case of
a man of 1531. a-year. Why the line must be drawn some-
where, and of course wherever it falls it will necessarily pm css
heavily.—( Hear, hear. ) It is impossible to point out any tax
that will not be liable to a similar objection.—( Hear, hear.
But even in the case of a person of 1501. or 2001. a-year,
have still a confident hope that the deduction in the cost of
living will afford that man a great compensation for the actual
amount of the tax he will pay.—(Cheers.) Suppose the Noble
Lord takes the window tax instead. He must give exemptions
on account of a certain number of windows. I might say a
house of seven windows is liable to the tax, while the next
hotise having six windows is exempt from any payment what-
ever.—(Cheers.) Wherever the line is drawn first it must be
on a principle somewhat arbitrary I must admit, and difficult to
be maintained by strict reasoning, so that it is impossible to
prevent the occurrence of some cases of hardship. It is not
fair to condemn a tax by pointing out cases of individual hard-
ship that will occur under it. You are bound tether to con-
sider-it in its general results, and then fairly to ask yourselves
wh..ther, by any other tax equally just, it is possible to raise
the sum required to meet the exigencies of the country.—
(Cheers.) Sir, I said I would avail myself of the earliest
opportunity to give seine explanations with regard to the
machinery I shall propose for the collection of this tax ; and
I assure the Right Hon. Gentleman that if I declined answer=
ing that question which he put to me the other day, it was
from a strong impression that I could not, in an answer to a
question, give full and satisfactory information to the House
on that subject, but that it would be infinite), better to reserve
ie for the period when I should have an opportunity of gob g
into, the matter more fully than I could when there was no
question before the House, or at least none but that of the
Bight Honourable Gentleman.—(Cries of Hear, hear.) In
referring to the period when the income tax was last laid
on, I believe I shall not speak of a time obscure to
the House ; for though the interval is considerable,
and few perhaps have had personal experience of it, many of
those gentlemen I now a !dress are conversant with financial
subjects, and are perfectly aware of the principle on which
that tax was collected. But, in order to make myself per-
fectly intelligible to the whole House, I shall, for the sake
of those Members net conversant with financial detaiL-I
must refer to some points already well known to those wl.o
have made finance their study-1 shall propose as a rule for
the collection of the tax, the machinery, speaking generally,
that was applied by the Act brought in by Lord Lans-
downe, then Lord H. Petty, in 1806, in the Administration of
Lord Grenville and Lord Grey ; and a reference to that Act
will give to any Gentleman who may wish to ascertain it a
precise knowledge of the mode in which I propose to collect
the tax. The property tax was collected and assessed and will
be collected and assessed under those general regulations
which apply to the assessment and collection of the assessed
taxes and she land tax. There are its every county in Eng-
land certain land tax Commissioners, called Commissioners
of land-tax. These Commissioners of land tax will be em-
ployed anti required to appoint, speaking generally, from their I
own body, but they are not strictly limited to their own body,
certain Commissioners, who will be called Csminissioners fu r
general purposes. These Commissioners for general purposes
will have the selection of others, who will be called
Additional Commissioners. I am now, in fact, stating
the general operation of the Act of leo6. The number
of the Additional Commissioners is not limited ; but, ge-
nerally speaking, they will be the same as those charged with
the assessment on property. I will not here go into the details
to be observed respecting the assessment on Bank Steck and
East India Stock. There was, in the Act, a special mode for
the assessment of that Stock, and I will adhere to it. I shall
propose, so far as the Government is concerned, that
the collection, and general superintendence of the income
tax, shall be under the control of the officers of stamps
and taxes ; and by those officers, so far as is aval-
ble, who are employed in duties connected with the
land tax. Tim Local Commissioners will have the appointment
of assessors who will deliver at certain times blank forms of
r,turns, and the inhabitants of their respective districts with
minute instructions as to how those returns shall be filled up.
Each person will be required to state in the return the annual
value of his property, in case his property arises from land or
the rent of houses, or in short if it comes under the specifica-
tion of the schedule A. With resi ect to the profits arising
from trade, I will retain the provisions of the Act of 1806.
The profits arising from trade for the year shall be c,l:•ulated
according to the average of the three preceding years, but of
course it will be necessary to provide for cases in which the
trade has not been carried on for so long a time. But here I
need not enter into t-hesedetr.ils as they may be seen in the Act.
But the general principle is that the profits arising from trade
shall be calculated by the average of the three preceding years.
'Well respect to incomes arising from professions, the calcula-
tion of profits will be according to the 'average of the year be-
fore. I really believe the chief difficulty attending the plan of
the Government will occur in schedule B, respecting trades
anti professions. As for dividends in the funds, a particular
prevision is not required, this being a sort of property, the ae-
Inowledgment of which few deprecate, and of which the amount
is tolerably notorious; and since the time of Mr. Fitt and the
new Assessment Act, the value of land can be easily
ascertained. I am therefore willing to concede to the
Right Honourable Gentleman that the force of ob-
jections on account of its inquisitorial nature will
apply to the incomes arising from trades and professions. Then
I propose that the returns shall be sent to the two additional
Commissioners, and shall be accessible to the surveyors acting
under the Government. The returns shall be sent sealed to

le Commissioners, and shall be inspected by them, find they
shall have power to send for the surveyor acting under the
Government to make a surcharge on that assessment. Then,
as the law stands now, and as it did in 1806, there is an ap-
peal from that surcharge to a Special Board, chosen by the
general body of Commissioners, and called Commissioners for
General Purposes. This Board shall have extensive powers,
and can demand from the other authorities precise informa•
two as to the nature of profits. This provision I propose to
retain, because the policy of the law has been with respect to
assessed taxes, 'and with respect to a property tax, not
to make the collection depend on the will of the Government,
but that it is more consistent with the constitutional usage th3t
parties locally interested should be employed in the task of as-
sessing and collecting, because they must have the confidence
of their neighbours in the performance of their duties. I pro-
pose to leave these provisions of the land untouched. But.,
though in theory it may be more consistent with constitutional
usages to employ persons possessing the weight of local autho •
rity in collecting and assessing, yet a greater objection is raised
against those very parties sitting on appeal on the affairs of their
neighbours. It is urged as peculiarly objectionable that parties
should be called out exposing to their neighbours and those who
might be their friends, or individuals opposed to them from
pet tonal or political animosity, the actual state of their private
affairs. Therefore I propose to give those parties an option
with respect to appeals. I propose to permit the tax offieent to
appoint a certain number of persons to be called Special Com-
missioners, and to have the power of hearing appeals as well as
the Commissioners for General Purposes under the Act of 1806,
that those parties shall have the full option of going before
the Commissioners for General Purposes, if they please ; but,
if they prefer it, they may appeal to the Special Commis-
sioners, who shall be responsible to the Government, tinder
the control of the tax-officers, and sworn to perfect secrecy.
The parties shall then have the option of appealing to either
of the Boards of Commissioners, but, of course, this proceed-
.ing must be final. It will not be necessary, I apprehend, to
extend the operation of this provision beyond those parties
who will come under schedule B. But having stated these de-
tails, of course I shall reserve to myself the power of making
alterations if I think proper, and I trust the House will not
think worse of the plan it some alterations be found necessary
in minute matters--( No. ) Considering' the vast. number
of persons, and the intricate combination of interests invoiced
in the working of the scheme.—(Cheers.) In matters of
principle there will be very little alteration, but in matters of
detail I must reserve to myself the unfettered power of avail-
ing myself of the benefit of any information I may yet receive
—(Cheers)—for my desire is to make the Bill as satisfactory
to all classes as I can.—(lllttels cheering.) I hope it is
possible to introduce into the Act provisions not in
the old to enable parties once having made a return of
their incomes, whether arising from trade calculated on
the profits of the three preceding years, or from professions
calculated on the profits of the year before, to make some
arrangement by which they may be able to compound for the
assessment.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) I think every effort
ought to' be made to guard against fraud and evasion. One
objection against the income tax is the peculiar severity of its
operation on those who are determined to act honestly with the
Government. I mean to diminish the force of that objection.
I think that without introducing an enactment of peculiar j
severity, the tax imposed ought to be one calculated to give
every advantage to the honest man, presenting at the same
time_ ,every discouragement against fraud and evasion.
I still hope to be able to effect a composition that may extend
over the whole period of the operation of the Act. Ido not
mean to say that in all cases it ought to be obligatory, but
I think where parties are satisfied that the assessment is a
just one, that a composition shall be made in the same manner
as in the case of the assessed taxes. The general policy of a
composition ought, I think, to be admitted. In expressing
my desire to snake this arrangement, I ho,,e I shall not be
precluded from taking any course afterwards by what I have
stated now, but I do trust that this will be accepted by
many as a great improvement in the law ; I trust that
without incurring any great risk of evasion or fraud, this com-
position may be effected. The House will perceive that there
are three provisions in this law, which were cot incorporated
in the former law. First, there is the option of an appeal be-
fore the.local Commissioners, and if the exposure of private
affairs is objected to before them, it gives the option of going
before the Commissioner appointed by the Government, a
stranger to all parties, and sworn to secrecy, to make
the appeal, and give his decision on the assess-
ment. Secondly, a facility was given • fgr compound-
ing for the payment of that composition to ex:end
over a period of three years. I believe I have now answered
the general questions that had been put to me by the Right
Hon. Gentleman. I apprehend that the present establishment
of the Board of Stamps and Taxes will be'hardly su Peient for
the satisfactory discharge of the duties that the measure will im-
pose upon them. All I can say on this point is, that in em-
ploying additional officers, care will be taken to employ persons
of good general character 'and integrity, and every
endeavour will be made to prevent any permanent
incumbrance being thrown upon the country, from 'that em-
ployment of additional officers which, I trust, will be merely
temporary. I beleve I have now stated all that it is neceE-
sary for me to state. There is, however, one other provision
which I propose to include in the Act. Under the former
law many persons did object to having to make the pay •
ment to the assessors o fthe sum due by them on account of the
tax. Though there might be no inquisition by them
into the private circumstances of parties, yet it was quite as
painful to them for persons in the neighbourhood

to know the exact sum paid on their property from which it
could be inferred what their return had been, and what was
the amount of their income. Now I propose to enable them,
after the assessment is made, to make their payment or amount
of the assessment into the Bank of England, without giving
any name at all.—(Hear, heir, hear.) There was a
proposition to this effect in the Bill introduced by Lord
Henry I'etty, but I also propose to extend the
option of payment to the brinehes of the Bank of England
in different parts of the country, and I tru4 there
will he" some advantage found in not confining the payment
strictly to the principal establishment of the Bank of England
in London. 1 do not know whether it is desirable that I
should give an answer to other questions that have been put
to me. One question has been put to ins respecting terminable
annuities. I was asked whether or not I proposed to make any
deduction of the duty levied on terminahleannuities, as compared
with the duty on the dividends from stock. •I may state that Ido
not propose to make any deduction en terminable annuities.—
(Hear, hear.) I feel that when we once begin to make distinc-
tions as to the nature of property, it will be absolutely necessary to
abandon the tax. If it can be shown that the Bank of England ought
to be favonred, if it can be shown that distinctions ought to be made
in favour of the powerful and wealthy and affluent, it will be
shown that remissions ought to be made, on a similar principle, to
a much greater extent. If the tax is to t•eimposed at all, it ought
to be a fax-made uniformly on the income of the country. If ex-
ceptions are to be made to the contribution to the tax, or discrimi-
nations made as to the sources from whence the income is derived,
it *may be applied to all. lam therefore bound to s ate, that I
cannot admit the justice of remitting any portion of the duty
leviable by the letter of the law upon terminable annui-
ties. No such exemption was made by the Bill of
Mr. Pitt, in 1798, no such exemption was made in the Bill of
1800; then, though the Act had a much longer period to run,
still the tax was levied on terminable annuities, there being certain
Exchequer annuities to which it was applied, which were very
analogous to the present terminable annuities. The principle for
which I contend is that of a tax of three per cent. on the income
of the country, and from that tax I make no remission on account
of particular circumstances. I now leave this question in
the hands of this House, and I am quite sure that
it will be for the public advantage that the determination
of the House should be made known, at the earliest period con-
sistent with due deliberation upon it. Of course, the whole financial
policy of the year, and other equally important questions, together
with the determination as to whose hands the Government of the
country should be placed in—(Hear, hear, and cheers)—must be
dependent upon that deeision. If the House thinks it desirable
to adopt the principle of the Noble Lord, and thinks it right that
a tax should be levied on corn by a fixed duty—if the House does
anticipate that by reducing the duty on foreign sugar, or any other
of the necessaries which the Noble Lord recommended—if it
believes that by a remission of that duty it can meet the diffi.
culties of the country, then it will adopt the policy of the Noble
Lord, and reject my proposition. But, after mature considers.
tion, lam not prepared, without stipulation, seeing our pros.
'petits and peculiar position in which we stand with reference to
foreign countries. I am not prepared to advise the remission of
the duties on foreign sugar ; and not being able to do so, I 'am
unwilling to advise a remission of the duty on sugar, the
produce of our own colonies.—( Hear, hear.) The more
I I,ok on this subject, the more I consider tho sum
we require, the more confident I feel that the best measure to which
the !louse can trust for a supply, is to trust to a tax on the income
of the wealthy, rather than attennaing to impose the duties on
articles either of customs or excise, which have been referred to,
and in which, in many cases, an abatement has been made. I be-
lieve that an attempt to impose these taxes again, especially if they
are to be of a temporary nature, will much more disturb the applica-
tion of capital to the operations of active industry, than calling
on each man to contribute 3/. out of every 1 eel, of his income. I
have a strong conviction that the great mass of the labouring
classes in this country will consider the voluntary determination of
the wealthier portion of society to accept for itself; for the
purpose of relieving the burdens upon industry —I have a strong
conviction that on the part of the public of this country, it will be
generally held as a strong proof of the determination of the upper
classes to bear their fair share of the public burdens.—(Cheers.)
Although I admit that the tax does in some respects press with ad.
ditional severity on account of the uncertain nature of profits upon
that portion of property derived from trade and manufactures, yet,
when it is considered that one main object of the imposition
of this plan, is to reduce the duties on the raw material of menu.
factures, as the best chance of a revival of commerce, I do enter-
tain a confident expectation that this proposal will be especially of
advantage to those who are connected with trade and manufactures.
With respect to those who have land, or derive their income from
professions, I have also a confident expectation that, by reducing
the cost of living, it will, in a great part, compensate to them for
the peculiar burden thrown upon them. But even if I
cannot offer them that advantage, yet they will, by con-
senting to this burden, instead of throwing it upon articles of
consumption, oiminish the force of the attacks of those who are
agitating Use public mind to a state of great excitement. Even if
I give them that compensation only, I trust it will be considered
au advantage, and I hope that in three years, we may anticipate
such a relief to trade and manufactures, that we may be able to
dispense with the tax. I trust that we may find such a re-
vival of commerce and industry that we may have
the satisfaction of contemplating a satisfied and contented people,
satisfied from the proof they have received that those of the
highest stations in society, the comparatively affluent, are pre-
pared, at a crisis of gnat commercial and financial difficulty,
to lay on themselves a full portion of the charge necessary to Le
incurred from the circumstances of the country.—(Loud cheers,
amid which the Right lion. Baronet resumed his scat.)
A resolution was then put into the hands of the Speaker by the
Right Honourable Baronet, which was read at length by the clerk
at the table. We understood the resolution to relate to the pro.
posed income tax.
Mr. LABOUCHERE then rose to address the House, but the
Eight Hon. Gentleman was for some time almost inaudible, front
the noise that prevailed. The Bight Hon. Gentleman was mindere
stood to say, that he was very sensible how difficult was the task
imposed upon him of addressing the House, after time speech of the
Right Hon. Baronet, upon a question of such magnitude as that
under their consideration. He would, however, claim the
indulgence of the House while he proceeded to make a few
observations upon that speech. The Right Hon. Baronet began
by saying, that although his (Mr.Labouchere's) Noble Friend (Lord
J. Russell), when he first heard of the intention of her Majesty's
Government to propose an income tax, had declared that lie would
give that proposal his best consideration. Although his Noble
Friend had made that declaration, the Right Hon. Baronet began
by saying that he had heard that declaration with incrtdulity, and
that lie was perfectly satisfied that the Noble Lord had at that
time made up his mind to oppose the tax in question—(Hear, hear)
—nay, more, the Right Hon. Baronet went on to say that
whatever might be the financial propositions of the Govern-
ment—whether they had proposed that or any other tax—the
Noble Lord and those who acted with him, would be equally
prepared to oppose any course which the Government might
take.—(Cheers and counter cheers.) Now he (Mr. Labouchere)
would not reciprocate imputations of that kind.—(Hear, hear.)
On the contrary, he was ready to do the Right Hon. Gentle-
man that justice which he had refused to the party opposed to
Min—(!feer, hear)—and strongly as he objected tos the course
which the Right lion. Baronet had taken, lie was nevertheless
prepared to avow his conviction that that course heal been
adopted by the Right Hon. Gentleman upon motives worthy of
his situation as a Minister of the Crown, and that he had not re.
sorted to the present expedient without believing that it was his !
duty to recommend it to the House and to the country. He con-
fessed that he thought the taunts and imputations in which the
Right lion. Geutleman had indulged came with a peculiarly bad
grace from him.— (Hear, hear.) It was true that the Right lion.
Gentleman. had been all his life opposed to the party now arrayed ,
against him, but he had hal ample opportunity of witnessing the
course they had pursued.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Labouchere)
thought the Right Hon. Gentleman might recollect occasions, and
those neither few nor unimportant, uhen the Noble Lord and
those who acted with him, had stepped forward, and when the
Rightsilon. Gentleman was in some danger from the lukewarm
support or the open desettion of his own supporters, and when
gleat principles were at stake—had thrown away all party feelings,
and had cordially concurred with the Right !toil. Gentleman in up.
holding measures which they believed to be for the public
interest.—(Loud cheers.) With these instances fresh in
his recollection, he confessed he was suprised to hear
the Right Hon. Baronet indulged in taunts whicg were equally
indelicate and uncalled for.—(hear, hear.) Time Right Hon.
Baronet in the course of Isis speech had introduced various topics
extraneous to the question before the House—topics relating to Use
policy of the late Government. Ile would not follow the Right
Hon. Gentleman in the discussion of those points, because he felt
that it was not desirable to divert the attention of the House from
the great and important subject then under their consideration—a
question which demanded the greatest calmness and the most
serious deliberstion, and which was assuredly quite enough to oc-
cupy their attention on the present occasion without mixing up
with it other questions. The Right Hon. Gentleman seemed cx.
tremely surprised at the course which they (the Opposition Mem-
bers) had taken on that occasion. He supposed it was owing
to that !surprise that the Right Honourable Gentleman
could not imagine that any honest and public motion
had guided them in the course they were pursuing. lie confessed
that lie had heard the expression of such an opinion, from the
Right Hon. Gentleman, with peculiar astonishment, when he re-
collected thelanguage which, at no distant period, the Right Him.
Baronet had held with regard to a property tax, at a time when
there was a deficiency of 2,500,0001. to the revenue of the
country. The . Right Honourable Baronet, in the de-
bate upon the budget, in 1840, said, that " there being about
2,500,0001. to be raiser!; to attempt to raise that small sutra by a
property tax, or a tax upon general consumption, would not be ad.
visabte, and, thereffire, upon the whole, he gave a preference to the
principle of the plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman." It appeared
that all through the speech of the Bigot Hon. Baronet there ap-
peared to run a tone of exaggeration, both with regard to the
financial difficulties of the country, and, what was still more im-
portant, with reference to facts which could not fail to produce an
impression upon foreign countries—(Hear)—when they found such
language fell from the lips of a Minister of the Crown. The Bight
Hon. Baronet, in order to induce the House and the countt y to
swallow an unpalatable impost, had indulged a language which he
(Mr. Labouchere) held to be extremely dangerous when coming
front such a quarter. The Right lion. Baronet, talking of the
difficulties in which we were involved, spoke as if we
were engaged in wars of frightful magnitude. Now
he (Mr. Labouchere) did not mean to undervalue the importance of
the recent effects in Affghanistan and in China, but at the same
time when he heard the Prime Minister of this country which had
grappled, and grappled successfully, with the combined forces of
Europe under the greatest conqueror of modern times—when he
heard the Prime Minister of such a country talk as lie had talked
of the inroads of the barbarous class of Aff,shans, and of our
struggles with China—he owned that he heard such language with
surprise and regret. He could not help thinking, from the whole
tone of the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, that while he pro.
fessed to believe that the proposed tax would be favourably received
by the country, he had a secret conviction that a tax so inquisitorial
was repulsive and abhorrent to the feelings of the English people,
In order to persuade the !louse and the country to adopt that tax,
he had therefore highly coloured the picture of our difficulties.
He should also say that he did not think the Right lion. Gentleman
had fairly stated the alternative proposed on the Opposition side of
the House for our financial difficulties. The Right Holt. Gentleman
had said that If the present Opposition had the luck to be now in
office, they would still propose no other measures than those which
they had submitted to the House last year. Notv he (Mr. Labou-
chere) continued to believe that those measures which could
then have been proposed—and he deeply regretted that they
had not been fairly tried, in order that they might have a full
experience of the results of a commercial Corn-law, and a com-
mercial Sugar-law. lie also regretted that the failure of her
Majesty's Government, on that occasion, had deprived him of the
opportunity of bringing forward the improvements of which he had
given notice in the tariff: But he was now perfectly prepared to
own, at least for himielf, that he very much doubted whether,
under the present circumstances of the country, by any mere modi-
fication of duties, they could fully meet the public exigencies. lie
should say that, upon that or upon other subjects, the late
Ministry, if they had continued in office, would have taken
such steps as they might consider most conducive to
the honour and .safety of the country, and most likely
to equalise the revenue and the expenditure of the country. The
Bight Hon. Gentleman himself seemed to admit that'if the Corn.
law prepared by the late Government had been carried, their sugar_
duty and their improvements in the tariff had been carried, there
would now be no necessity for an income tax. He wished that sub.
ject were well understood in the House and the country. And he
hoped that whatever people might think of the Corinlaw and the
sugar duty, they would know that the price they paid for them was
an income tax.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.) He owned that
when he heard those ad captandum arguments used on the other
side of the Ilouse,about their proposals being favourable to the poor,
and pressing exclusively on the rich, be could not help thienlstingotalciact,
when thepoor and menof small property came to understand that if the
principle of commercial reform had been adopted they would bC.
lick from the change, and they would not, as in the taut
be subject to the effects which would indirectly follow from the
income tax. He could not help thinking that it would not seem
even to them that the Government had taken the course most fa.

vourable to their interest.—( Hear, hear.) He tonfessed, that; strongly as lie was opposed to an income tax, and deeply as he felt
the evils which would foltow from its adoption in a time of peace,
if the Right Hon. Baronet had come forward with a really bold,
comprehensive, and just meastne of commercial policy, he should,
upon the whole, have his support. If the Right. Hon. Baronet had.
stated that his income tax was merely an expedient to which he
had recourse until the trade of the Country was fully developed, and
that he had merely proposed an income lax, and in order to make
sere fir a time of a sufficient revenue, he, ftir one, should not have
condemned the course. -Ile could not but regret the determination
of the Right Hon. Gentleman with regard to the sugar duties, more
especially now that France and other countries were about to alter
materially their enactments upon that article of consumption. Be
certainly could not but regret that the Right Hon, Gentleman had
notmeet,o uwghbetni t
tehx,erves t lwas etreyr t Fri
eeassuogna r dour t i
mesaakti
ng sspurcertal tn maol:
teration. (Hear, hear.) Then with regard to the the timber
duties, he could not help saying, that from the manner
iu
the Right Ilmi. Gentleman prapwsel
regar to these
whichatbomlite'gbiesrlaet)e
awsitilfr
the Right Hon. Guitleman was desirous of making his deficit as
large as he (nuke—(llear, Lear.) Ile must say, that a more
wanton and makes abandennsent of the sources of all revenue, he
had never before heard of. It had never before entered into the
imi timber mind of any
trade
yG
asern a source`intmtalt alt altogether
revenue,ive lieupleer now looking
came a
to thatiectotileCo:o-
part of the plan iu which the Right Hon. (kWh man mainly de-
pended to make the plan palatable to the commercial and maim-
tecturieg interests of the country—he meant the
im-
proved tariff: Ile (Mr. Labouchere) was as well aware
as any man could be of the extreme difficulty
of the subject, and he would never be found raising petty cavils at
the details of a measure of that kind, if he approved of the prin-
ciple. If he approved of the_ principle, he thovght it was only
fair to leave to the Government the arrangement of minor details,
He would admit, that there were parts of that tat ill' which were
• great improvements upon our present commercial system. But
when he considered the principle upon which the !miff had been
constructed, he considered it so faulty at d ao crioneous, that
he believed if the House should unfortunately adopt it,
the disadvantage attending it would greatly outweigh all its bene-
fits. His Noble and Right Hon. Friends near him had already
aluded with great enlargement at the field of colonial protection.
He (Mr. Labouchcre) was not one of those who desired that a
preference should be given to the Cirlonies in the Home Market.
On the contrary, he thought the Colonies were entitled to a fair
and moderate, but not to an extravagant preference.— (Hear,
hear.) But the principle adopted in the presept tariff was
a very different o.ie. It extended to everything. There was
no article in the world the trade of which was placed upon an
equal footing between the colonies and foreign countries. In the
great article of tobacco, for instance, the colonies had been
placed upon an equal footing with other nations; and he should
regret to see the day when England should inscribe upon her
colonial code, " Hereafter everything shall be protected."
Sir R. PEEL—There is a protection upon colonial tobacco.
Mr LA BOUCHERE was surprised to hear that observation from
the Right Hon. Gentleman. It was true that a differential duty
on tobacco in fevour of our West Indian and North American
colonies had been proposed by Mr, Huskisson, which he (Mr. L.)
rejoiced to say had totally failed. No considerable quantity of
tobacco had ever been imported either from the West Indies
or rem the North American colonies. The Right limn Gentle..
man (the Chancellor of the Exchtquer) had taloned film (Mr. L.)
with having approved of the petition of the East India Company,
praying for an equalisation .f the duties on East and West India
-produce. He Lad entertained and acceeded to the motion for all
appointment of a committee to consider the petition which be had
given no opinion on the subject. The Right Honourable
Gentleman had alluded to his (Mr. Labouchere'e) having
consented to the equalization of the duties on r inn, but it should he
recollected that they bad already conceded an equalization of the
duties on sugar, mid he considered the equalization of the rum duties as a corrollarey, and lie could not but recollect on that
OCCISIOII the Right Honourable Gentleman himself was al-
most alone in his opposition to that measure, loudly proclaiming
that it would be the ruin of the West Indian interest.—(Cheets.)
He (Mr. L.) had oil that, as on various other occasions received
deputations from various Gentlemen connected with the East
Indies. They had asked him to take the opportunity to ceualise
the duties on East and West India tobacco. His reply was, that
nothing should induce him to propose such a measure. Ile had
said, that if they complained of a great difference of duty as a
grievance he was willing to do away wills the nominal differential
duty in favour of the W. st Indies, but that nothing should induce
him to adopt as a principle, the allowing a great moeo- •
poly interest to grow up in the East Indies, ill tobacco.
—(flear.) The deferential duty at present proposed, although
only 3d. in the pound, was, considering the mice of tobacbo, rte.
tually a protection of 100 per cent in favovr of East India to-
bacco. The soil of India was favouraLle to the growth of tobacco,
and the-consequence would be eventually to transfer the whole of
our tobacco trade from Amctica to the East Indite, and thereby to
saeratice one eighth part of our revenue- lie belied the Right
Hon. Gtntlernam would recommeed that part of the measure.
Anxious as he was to avoid trespassing too long on the attention of
the House, lie could not sit down without adverting to the in.
come tax. All those who had experience of what an income tax
was, had describtel it as a most grievous burden. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had proposed certain moeificarions of it, which
might, pettier's, in a very slight degree, obviate some few of the
objections which had been made to it. He had !aver heard of
any statesman who had not allowed that theminciple of an income
was objectionable.
Sir It. PEEL—Sir Henry Parnell.
Mr. LABOUCHERE—It was the first time in this country
that such a tax had been proposed in time of peace. Ad/111
Smith, the highest autism ity on these subjects, had objected to
it as most inquisitorial and vexatious in its operation, and as one to
which no people would patiently rubinit. In the latterproguostic he
a-as wrong. The people of this country had submitted to it when
engaged in hostility with a foreign foe it had become necessary to
subind to such an impost to maiutain the honour of the country ;
but he believed it was quite impossible to exaggerate the vexatious
nature of the tax. During the last year of its continuative there
hail been 1 1,000 surcharges made in the City of Loudon alone, of
those 3,000 had been set aside on appeal, alter an elaborate exami-
nation of the circumstauces of the parties, and 7,000
hail not appealed, probably thinking it a less evil to submit
to an -unjust tmpo t, than to submit their affairs to the
inspection of the I:uric:sus. But, suppose those surcharges to
have been just, what must have been the pestilential in.
. fluence upon the P orals of the country of such a tax, when it could
induce parties to have recourse to guilty evasions, in order to evade
aasessment. It was well to talk of the se, recy of the Commission.
ers, but in realty that seetecy had been very greatly
observed.—(Cheers.) He wisled to guard against the misrepre-
sentation which slowed that thera did lint exist upon his
(Mr. L.'s) side c f the House the same determination to take
effectual measures which the financial difficulties of the country
. that existed on the other side) but he found it difficult to per.
suede himself that the first tax that they ought to have recourse
to should be the (list which the peeple had insisted not bring taken etf:
the moment peace was restores!. Ile did not mean to say that it
might not have been necessary to have recourse to an income tax in
time olpeace, but they ought to try all other means behire they
constrains d the people of England to submit to a heavy burdee,
alien to their habits, inquisitorial in its character, more vexatious in
proportion to the amount levied than any other tax which had
never before been imposed in time of peace, and had always been re.
screed as x last resource to fill back upon' ill time of war. But
when the occasion arose, he could assure the Right Ilon. Baronet
opposite that uotwithstanding the imputation thrown upon Ilia
Noble Friend, he might rely that they would be found quite as
ready to adopt the most efficient means to meet the difficulties the
Right Hon. Baronet could possibly wish.
Mr. lIA WES rose to move the adjournment of the debate, but
Lord WORSLEY said he wished to ask a question of the Right
Hob, Baronet relative to an inquiry he had made of the Right Hon.
Baronet a few evenings ago. The question he had put to the
Right 'Hon. Baronet was what revenue he expected to derive from
the duty on corn. When lie put the question to, the Ilieht Hole
Baronet, he said be would give it his early consideration. With re.
spect to the proposed income tax, he (Lord Warsley) did not
think the country had had time to judge of it.—(llear, hear,) He
believed it was not understood. There was another thing lie
wished to allude to, and which was, that the proposed tax was to be
looked einem as a bonus upon bad farming. (hie of the grounds
upon which the Right Hon. Baronet justified his tax, was the state
of India, and he could not help saying that it was a fortunate
circumstance that the news arrived from India the night before he
made his proposal.—(Laughter, and cheers.) For firmly years the
expenses had been going on in India, and India had
required a great number of troops but it was the first
tinie they had been asked for an income tax to defray
expenses. He had only to hype that the Right Hon. Baronet
would say what he expected to derive freen the duty on corn, as
the general feeling was that it would be a very large amount, It
seemed to be the: unanimous desire of the country to know that
betoro the Corn.law Bill passed.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said his unwillingness to answer the ques.
tion was from no motives that had been ascribed to him. Perhaps
the Noble Lord bad heard the speech of the late Chancellor of the
Exchequer on this subject, in which he said it was almost impos.
sible fur any one to form an. accurate catimete of the probable
amount of the iMportation of corn. Ile found that the oldest
officers of customs and exc'se were frequently at a loss to estimate
the probable amoont. It mainly depended on the state of the bar.
vests. If there were favourable harvests, the amount increased ;
if there was an unfavourable harvest, it diminished ; and thus
it was impossible to form an accurate estimate. Nothing
could be more difficult than to form an estimate of the pro-
duce of corn; it depended so much upon the harvests. How-
ever, he calculated upon the met ipt of 500,000/. at all events, lions
the Customs entirely, without ref, recce to the state of the seasons,
whether good or bail, Ile (Sir It. Peel) merely endeavoured to
ucomultitii,rbnurtaant
:iineirnetbteiilleuelis,,tisoLloru,fhith
gaNinoisaley,l(7,dmasnow,e,cllrsaosn
en...
accurate idea of the amount of duty upon corn, as it was so much a
matter of tweet ainly.
Lord WOlleLEy, in rising to explain, said, from what the Right
Hon. Baronet had stn ed be seemed to calculate the duties to be
derived from the Curn.hill at a very low rate.—(laughter and
Cheers). The Right Hon. Baronet had said tut a very short time
ago that it %Told -have the effect of increasing the duties, and it
would secure a more regular trade in corn.
Sir itonERT PEEL, said the Noble Lord's question could he
solved in a very simple way—,suppose the rests in the scale weee
given to an eminent accountant, it would be for him to calculate the
anniunt of the duty which might he paid.—Laughter.)
The House then resumed. The Cm/ORMAN reported progress and
asked leave to sit again.
• The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of and the House
Adjourned at Half. past Twelv,.,

HAMBURGH I%IAIL.
BERLIN, MARcii 9.—Mr. Van Komptz does not retire from
the public service, but continues to be one of the Privy Coun.
cillors without any precise position, but with full salary as
m inis! er.
The family of Van Kalkreuth, ‘‘Mich 'is distinguished in
Prussian history, has lately received Goan his Majesty, as an
acknowledgment for scrvieeg formerly rendered to the state, a present of 100,000 dollars.
BERLIN, MAncii 12.—We are able to state, on good au.
thority, that the expenses of the King's visit to England, which
the newspapers have estimated at half a million, sometimes at
Beo,ooo dollars, or even more, did not amount to quite
80,000 dollars. The Crown Prince of Bavaria leaves us on the
14th. The Duke of Nassau is expected this evening.
The last accounts front St. Petersburg, confirm the news
that the Empress and the Grand Duchess will come to Ger-
many; They will probably pass a week at the beautiful coun-
try-scat of Fischbach, belonging to PrineeWilliam, his Majesty's
uncle, and then proceed to Ems. The Emperor, it is said, wilt
go to the Hague.
12.—The ratification of the Conven-
tion for the purchase of the Chatham Islands concluded in the
name of the New Zealand Company and .of a German Colo-
nisation Society, were to be exchanged to-day, but it was
agreed to delay the exchange in order to employ the interval to
settle the preliminary political* questions, and to complete the
organisation of the Q)mpany, the foundation of which has been
laid in Harnburgh, by subscribing for shares. A ramification
of the So.iety through Germany seems to be desirable.—
llamburgh Papers, March 15.
Probably respecting the sovereignty of the islands.
DUTCH FUNDS.--.A.MeTXXDAIII, MARCH 15.
Money. Brno.
Actual MIA, 2% per Cent • 0000000 ••••••••••• 5941 l Jilt; ditto 5 per cent.
Amen .:;vinlic,4% per cent 22 91
Ditto, ditto, 3% per cent.... ..... 761's LI%
CounntrcialCompanv, 4 per cent ......
Ditto (MIS and 18.375 5 per tent. 2 Loan 1S 'a*.', 5 per cent... ............. I'2 12 t
. c:
Exchange on I,nition, Otis month...-.
Two months .....» l3
rS Ai
Ilamburgh, One niontti
Two niontto.
A MAH 9
Metuniciucs
five per eGMIS.
• 'a ................... . .............
Faikr pc) (.014. . ..
Dutch Papers,
'76
it rrc . r Cents.
13auk sharts ........... 161 i
us 1 ail A N 1,1
j11;41721...1v0.4,NN
al
.107