Star.
London, England, 1808-05-06 00:00:00

The bake of ATHOL-defended the. Bill, as well)
calculated to promote the ends of justice; and that
I by dividing the Judges into'two Chambers, more re-
.
HOUSF. OF LORDS, THURSDAY, MAY 5. I gular decisions would be given. As to the petition
Cluns,4 W 39 heard on the Roxburgh Appeal Cause. mentioned by the NOble,Lord, as coming from Scot.
Mr. Wit.% kTO:4 , Colonel Sl' A N 1.L% , andseve..ral Members from land, he was inclined to pay no more attention
the Comtnins, presented a copy of the minutes of the evidence than he would do to that of a petition presentedie
taken before a Committee of the whole House upon the petition
of certain Merchant, and Traders, trading to the United States Old Sarum. He wished most ardently the welfare
of America, against the late Orders in Cotutcil. Ordered to lie on of that part of th 4 enuntry where he had lived, and
the table. _ I where he hoped he would die.
_ _ .

PARLI,IMEIVIW Rr PROCEEDINGS.

Mr. Wn Is rox, Colonel Sr ext.rv, &c. also brought up the
Irish Spirit Drawback Suspension Bill, and t'aree Land Inclosure . Lord HOLLAND rose in explanation, and stated,
Bali, which were severally read a Cast time. ' that the Noble Duke had misapprehended him, if he
Lord H AWRESBDRY presented certain accounts respecting thought that he had given his :opipion as founded on
Offices in Reversion. -Ordered to lie on the table. the Petition. What he said was, that several Noble

D.CNISO VESSELS. • i Lords had statcd, that the Scotch were unfavourable
Lord SIDMOUTH, on the suggestion of Lord Hawliesbury, to a trial by Jury. But if it vi as, how came it that
moved, that their Lordships be summoned for Friday next, he
,0 itiou
purposing to bring forward some .propositions concerning the Da.
11
JliA VeSt.h. .. 1 Friend'spet Bis had been presented •against his Noble
Bill.

CATHOLIC PETITION.
LOH expressed his anxiety to bring forward this
most importint question upon the earliest opportunity ; hut in con-
sequence of the necessary absence of a Noble Earl (Grey), 001111
stoned by some indispensable domestic concerns, he felt himself
obliged to postpone the consideration of this question to a padod
enure distant than he had originally intended, as he felt he cAld
not do that justice to the subject which he wished, without the
assistauce of his Noble Fiiend, from whose knowledge and expe-
rience he should derive much benefit : with the hope, therefore,

Lord MORTON: thought that the Noble Lords
had wandered from the subject, in discussing the in-
troduction of a trial By. jury, and thought it would
have seen better to have postponed the debate on that
measure,. till it came regularly before the House, and
defended the Bill.
The Earl of GALLOWAY spokc at some length
in favour of the Bill.

that his Noble Friend would be able to attend in .his place, his
Lordship moved, that their Lordships be summoned upon the
27th, instead of the ifith inst Should his Noble Friend be.una •
ble t., attend on that day, he should further postpone it fur a few
do.ys longer, giving their Lordships sufficient previous notice of
such intended postponement.
Lord H.IWKESBIJRY thought It would be a matter of much
convenience to the House, that the Noble Baron should change
his motion from the 13th to the 27th, as the notice of his Noble ;
Friend ',Lord Sidmouth) stood for the former day ; at the same
time It: expressed a wish that the Noble Baron would not put off.'
his motion, at least many days after that period, as it might be
attended with much inconvenience to many Noble Lords who
might wish to declare their sentiments on The discussion of the
question. The motion was then agreed to:
ORDERS IN COUNCIL.

Lord GRENVILLE stated, that from the many
years business. now before their LordshiN in regard
to appeals ; according to calculation of the number
that were yearly decided, it might be emphatically
said, that the House was bankrupt in the justice they
owed to the country. His Lordship contended, that
the Bill was not at all calculated to promote or pm.
cure better decisions ; but, on the contrary.: that the
number of appeals would be encreased, and the House
rendered still less able to do justice to the country,
because it would impede their decisions on the appeals
from this country, as well as from Ireland. •
The preamble being postponed, a discussion took

Lord GRENVILLE again rose to state his anxiety to bring
forward a discussion upon another very important question ' • but
undtrs:areling that the discus,ions between this country and the
troired Stars of America were likely to come to a happy termi-
ration, and in 012 hope that the King's Ministers would see the
necessity- of : estinding the late Orders in Council, he should also
postpone the corsidet a:ion of that question. If, however, his Ma-
jesty's Minis:el..; did not in due time take some measures for that
purpose, he should feel it his duty to bring forward the matter,
and niove an add:: 3 1 to his Majesty to rescind those Orders in
Caanei!, of evliicb iaoti,..n he should give previous notice.
Lord ILA W Ki..-;31.1RY rose, not for the ;,•::pose of trespassing
en the . in:e of their Lordships: but, lest his silence should he con-
strued inns an assent to the Node Baron's NV i.hes upon this sub.
i,--:, he should cely say, that at present his Majesty's 'Ministers
1.....: no such inteution in contemplation.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
SI.7OTCII JUDICA TURE. .
Mr. VILLIERS, from the Committee appointed to try the
The House resolved itself into a Committee upon
merit.turn
i.,,r0 ft
htch.
le T
ni Petitionv,t,sl ty complaining,,li)ub un
reported of a t unduehat
the Scotch Judicature Bill. The question for post-the sitting and
piling the Preamble being put, her was duly elected, and that the Petition was net frivigolows or
Lord ER S RINE rose, and expressed his regret vexatious.
that he could not 7ive their Lordships any assistance Mr. SHERIDAN held in his hand a Petition from Mr. St.
in this measure ; for from the very nature of it, he John Mason, a Gentleman of the Bar in Ireland, who, in the year
was convinced, it AV:IS not at all calculated to remedy ir
suspicion,a,anrlat anthed ontiemeftnofed in jailthe upwards o
insurrectioninfDiwuo lbli.aen,weasatarihrie ex-
the
sted
o
evil complained of. During the short time he piration of which he was discharged
without any inquiry or trial.
had had the honour to preside inethat House, he In fact, it was well known that the, suspicions under which he was
viewed with astor),lment and regret the accumula- confined were unfounded. What he especially complained of
t tion of a that uartet of the United Kin was, that h: was not only used ill whilst in contineMent, but that
ppeals from q when liberated he found hiMself ruined in his profession and cir-
(lona, and having giver. the subject the utmost torsi- 'CUMStaIaCCS ; in consequence of which the Petition he then held
deration, he found it 'Nholly impossible to take any in his hand '313 deems, .I expedient to k.essait ;it prayed relief
sleps which could tend to reduce them. By the pre- • Elam time Heusi,.
sent measure, it was intended to split the Court of The SPEAKER enquired if he sought pecuniary aid, as I c
Session into two Courts ; but this could not remedy ;that can: it ,mint have the. concurrence of his Majesty's Gever
meet.
or even stop the evil ; on thacontrary, it went to en- . . 'Mr. SHERIDAN answered, that it did colt it prayed relief
courage and increase it ; and he was decididly, of generally. . . -
opinion, that nothing hut the introduction ache trial ' The Petition was then Presented; and readdiy the Clerk at the
by Jury, and odiseavise assimilating the Courts of table,-the substance of which was as 'Mr...Sheridan had stated.
Scotland with that of England, could do away the - He, then Moved that it do lie upon the. table,
evil of suer an accumulation of appeals. • ' 'on this question being put, - • •
Sir ARTHUR 'WELLESLEY observed, that he had no objet-
Lord ELDON, in taking a review of the general
tion to the Petition being brought up, but he was at a loss to know
principle of this Bill, declared himself by no means how the House could interfere on the subject.
adverse to the introduction of the trial by Jury, pro- • . •
Sir LVAN NLPhAN said that be did net hear of any corn-
vided it should hereafter be fcKind expedient. By plaints of the kind mentioned. in that petition : all he knew was,
dividing the Court of Session into two Courts, and that as soon as it was ascertained that the Gentleman. in question
giving the party power of carrying his suit from-one ' was held in custody without proof of guilt, he was liberated.
or those Courts into the other, the natural result in Mr. MOOXF. complained of the iU usage which the prisoner
his mind would be the reduction o the number of received whilst in confinement, and thought that if the circum.
f
. stances sated to him wore true, the Government of Ireland was
appeals to this house. His Lordship, after adverting Much to blame.
to many arguments used upon the former discussion, Mr:DENNIS BROWNE vindicated the Government there,
confessed that this was not a perfect measure, but and said, that Gentlemen on the ether side of the House were
merely a beginning, in order to try the effect it might much too ready to censure, and he was persuaded, that, on
have ; and if it should be hereafter found to be atten-
investigation, they would find their censures at least as ground-
less as the circumstances were that led to •Mr. Mason's imprison-
dad with beneficial consequences, they might then
meet.
I.roc-ecl to sr mething boner ; but, in cases of so great Mr. WILLIAM SMITH reprehended the mode adopted of
innovation, he thought their procedure should be throwing people into prison, and theriliberating them orithpos any
gradual, remuneration for the injury done them, which he contended was
Lord LAITDERDALE contended that this mea- the least they had a right to expect, especially when it appeared
thi.esonprisntin whenhoing.c the
ouldalftnees for suspending
cltenthsneirinttitrity.andinnocence This was
sore \vas calculated to increase instead of diminishing h
the appeals. e conceived that an intermediate Court Act were in agitation here, and he argued that the Habeas Corpus
the the same principles
of Appeal was the only measure which could be at- ought to prevail here and in Ireland also. He was therefore de-'
tended with any beneficial effects, and warmly advo- eidedly a supporter of this Petition, although he knew nothing
cased the measure proposed by his Noble Friend ( Lord whatsoever of the complainant.
itlone‘ls.BFAi RI ItFsiti,,FM‘r. M.Oe2RPMr.,
Ga EN VILLE) during the last Session of Parliament. DrAfDtelllsßegs.v•AersNatiol ARTHhetweett eini
Lord ROSSI.I‘fhT opposed the Bill altogether, SHERIDAN, the Petition was ordered to lie on the table.
nr. I reprolveed the principle of establishing only two • XIII I.TON ELECTION.. •
Chanibets, without any Court of review, as they The following Gentlemen were appointed to try the merits or,
Thiele -ry open different points of law, and thus Mill- ' this Election, viz.— 1
Cply the nuinber of appeals. Interim possession, he W. Lewis Hughes, Esq. Earl of VarmoutS.
contended, was also extremely bad, on account of the GSieor I:FI'6V:sq.:IF 'Bqa.rt. Sir J. Da3hwooel King; Bart.
Sir Evan Nepean, Bart.
length of time before appeals could be decided ; and, ik!..acol„, 1,41hg, Esq. • John Leman, Esc
particularly, its many causes were reversed. From a Henry Swam, Esq. . John I.s.wther,Esq.
calculation he had made, the number of appeals with- Sir H. Vane Tempest, Bart. Janies O'Callaghan, Esq.
drawn, were about two in five, and one third of the John J. Blackburne, Esq.'••
. . .
. .
remainder were reversed: this was certainly a very Nosmri.s
Charles Dundas, Esq. Benjamin Hall, E .
serious consideration ; and their Lordships ought to The interment Bill was read a second time, and :greeted to be
pause before they agreed to a measure, which, in its committed.
consequences, was to occasion so many cruelties. Sir ARTHUR WF.LIX.SLEY, after a few observations from
Lord REDESDALE defended the Bill as a. mea- Mr. PONSONBY, obtained leave to bring in a Bill, eitipowering'
the Post-Master-General of Ireland to purchase certain ground
sure which ought to be preferred to a great innova-
tion, which was at all times extremely. dangerous. and premises fur the Post-Orffii;thwetre..s.
That it might happen that the number of appeals Mr. IRLSJCISSON stated, that as great Inconvenience had'
might lie encreased at first ; but afterwards he had no ' arisen co the reventie by the nianner in which the payments had
doubt, but it would be attended with very salutary i been made by publicans for obtaining licences, itwas his intention
effects. He had opposed the Bill formerly introduced, i to submit amain arrangensepts to the House, which, be trusted,
yortouldo obviate
itili:noini..nwfuutuireo.
i'el'he The he had in viewn consistedi
as he considered it contrary to the Union ; and was to
irate too great an innovation at once. • If the present I,solely top the Z:,oUeetor of Exciseg Mr me ch Atrium; ancl.Fae other
es
. measure was found to answer, other alterations could ! was that all persons who retail
but he thought in the first Place, ale, aiwell as spirits and wine,
eas'ly be rtaele
' should have recourse to hint for their! several licences, so that the
:
Bill was well eiSileulated to answer the end propOss the
proposed. i burdenpreve orof thein Managieseetraueielinwotublde
entitrehtfoenretilh,eand the e circuitoush
Letd HOLLAND opposed tfie Bill, and comf' : prevails, IswayOulgd be done awagy. It Would be necessary's:lt:Tel wr,
mended that which had been brought in by. his Noble : for theClealer or pulnican,hefore he shall obtain suds licence from
Friend. as containing such sound
_and philosophic 'the Cagectcr, apt to get fromthe Magistrates otitis district a err-
tifieme entitling kits thereto, which, when presented to the Col-
eAs to the trial by Jury, notwithstanding
principles. . lector, would be hb authority for the licence, on the payment of
the opinions of many Noble Lords, he believed that two guineas. He thiiimoled; . that the House will, to mor-
,the Scottish ration were generally favourable to that tow,resolve itself into a *Committee, to consider so much
.of an
Act of the 44th of the /Sins Zs Matta to granting Ale, Wine, and
me .sure, i ne proof of which their Lordships had peen
i tc pe ition he had the honour of presenting to the .spirit l'lcenc"*".. • ' •
Ordered, after a new okservailtens from Mr. Geonot VANSIT.•
tionse. although some of theit Lordships had given ?m: it?, Mr. DAvies GIDIIT; Sir jOlll4 New roar, said Mr. Li
other opinions. Paves.
,

pike on dividing the Judges Chambers, when
Lord, Grenville moved as an amendment, that the
word three' instead of two' Chambers, be inserted.
This amendment was defended by Lords Erskine and
Lauderdale, and opposed by the -Lord Chancellor,
Lord Hawkesbury, and Lerd Redesdafe. The amend-
ment was then put and negatived.
On the motion of Lord Hawkesbury, the Chairman
reported progress, and the subject was ordered to be
taken into consideration to-morrow,—Adjourned at
half past eleven.