Star.
London, England, 1808-02-19 00:00:00

the conduct of Ministers towards .
which could be
.7.,,,, v f*... ~,,,,.. , the Noble Lard, when he met
to the "rasters '._. s :212,r, g, the Old Bailer, would bete
,pitir je Our,"11 t ( His Noble ind Learned
' ships were ifi e se‘at' e7L7prietted .c expedition was a sacrifice
ihe 'Would still' test affaiitettle* chiracterrand yet had entered
There as but one cireeilleeance, 1 t- what was the cheapest the
igreaf.pait 'of the nivy of England, eatslhits..obeeiteed• The Noble
indece him to copeset tour enalieg a ehothby thelaw of precedent ai
Danish Navy, withouteptesed maritime I constitution, the present motion n.ukt k
We did not want ships. We had enough _ Ant- ships 2reisad-taken:from -Holland had
with the witted navies of the world. He could
perceive, therefore, the policy 9f fitting out this new selected terrnsebad complaised, " elueterseDanish Idi- i red—the ships wehadeakett from.f
' accession to our
,maritime strength ; but he could an- nister appeared in all things
.to exclese or palliate all restored—the ships we .hed takers
ticipate some probable advantages from following into- the inieries received from FrAce, but to eaggertate i beenlestoreat Ssi.fai precedent
ther course : he could devise no system 4 policy in the highest degree every complaint which Den- I tion; but the constitution of the country
more likely to conciliate the Danes, and to draw mark could have against this cotmtry:" Wes this . upon this point. The ships so captured
them, by de , into that close and friendly connec. the conduct of a Power really and-sincerely neutral, 1 property of the Crown, and he contended
section -. us in which they were formerly enited. or was it to be supposed that a feeble .nation, which ! motion went directly .to tie the hands
It would else tend to bring back the Emperor if had such dispositions towardsthe two countries, seoeld the- He should certainly feel it h
Russia to his natural connection with this country— resist the demands of France after the treaty of Tilsit, ', the resolution proposed.b,y the Noble
a connection which was dissolved tie less by imperious and that its fleet would •be safe under its own protec- I attention OLLAND thought it -
necessity,. than the rash and unwarrantable attec,k don ?If the danger was then imtninerit,.the necessity , the, of killable Lours to
mien
the Danish capital. He else looked, he con- of guarding against it was apparent ; and if the meet- . true question before the House.
--ed, with great expectations, to the impression sures of preeateudi which were necessarily taken led i derably misrepresented and mistated.
which a resolution of such magnanimity, justice, and to hostilities, England was notto be blamed. It was • did not, as had been eppiehended-
consistencywould make upon the nations 9f the Con- to those Posed's, and -to those circumstances which I Learned Lord upon the-Wool sack, ._
tined. Ire could not antecipate any act pf ours produced the necessity, that what happened was .to qr in any degree affett,the iprerogative
which could be more likely to shake that enormous be attributed. Be therefore most decidedly objected ,It was, whether that:Huse wouU rev
influence which France had acquired over the rest of ; to the resolution proposed ; first, because he thougbn espedierit that the Goterrunent shoe'
Europe.. It was by arming all the nations of the Con- it would be achnoridedging that we had done wrong, 1 the power of resuining, eventually,
tinent against us, by placing them in array, by exci-,1 when in fact we had done no wrong; and, idly. Jae 1 its at Copenhagen, to the Dimes.
tin their feelings against what was called our tyranny stead of leading to a peace, he thought it would shut , swerved from is
question,and
end injustice, matt hat man, who now wielded all the the door to peace, by engaging oueselves, as a preli- . the justification of the expedition
force of those nations, expected to prevail against us. urinary, to give lip that which neither justice required,' did think stillcould not be ,as he had alarranted
vray. _
The destruction of this country was the great object nor security permitted to be given up. I expedition w
of his ambition : compared with this, his victories at Lord gial.N.l3OltOUG.ll differed entirely from ground of necessity, and no came'
Lodi, Austerlitz, Friedland, end Auerstadt, were the sentiments of the Noble Lord who last spoke, and yet made out ; that House, at leas,
nothing in his estimation : to accomplish this, all his ' found himself called upon to ssupport the motion.— I of no evidence whatever to ware,
great talents, his genius, and his policy, were nit- I As to the cases referred to by the Noble Lord,
sat
' that expedition to have been the
ceasingly directed. What more effectual mode could ;hearing a near analogy to the present, he must say I sity. He was not inclined at present
there be of counteracting this design, than to render : that he did not see that analogy. He had oftenheard exposition of the shifting, prev-e
the instruments by which be proposed to effect it un- 1 it said, that there was nothing More dissimilar than a I which had been resorted to in
availing in his-liands ? As long as England shoeld , sietile, and he thoueit the Noble Lord had given an , sure ; one time Denmark was represented
preserve her antient honour, magnanimity, and disin- instance of the truth of that saying, by the caseswhich I
her professions of neutrality, but
terestednees, 'it was not to be credited that the nations !he quoted. The case of the Spanish frigates, taken at Ito her intentions ;at another,
Of the Continent would zealously co-operate in anybeginning of the war, was as unlike aas any case las her sincerity was unquestionale
plan to destroy her. . He would no longer detain their I could he, for we had against Spain at that time at annoyanee were to be feared are
Teeliershiris:- It eves nit, if he stated at the coin- . least reasonable ground of war. He, for another roes- again, it was pretended that
men
manes of his speech, his intention to interfere in ! son, never approved of the seizure. of these frigates. expedition were the secret arran
the smallest degree with the exercise of the Royal This country had so much encouraged that particular of Tilsit, and when it was atr
Prerogative, or to suggest any thing calculated to sort of trade by licences, that he thought it unjust to i alledged information to any a,
lower the ceuntry in the estimation of foreign Powers. seize upon as a, prey, that property which was probe- gal was at one period brought
His wish was, not tolind the Government to any 1 bly coming home on the faith of our implied permis- . mer and at another the disaffected Irish. 'Men
Measure inconsistent with the dignity of the nation, sion. As to the ships taken at Toulon, they were taken lof shifting naturally created suspicion intim nisei
but simply that the Danish navy should be kept in from a' nation with whom we were at war ; and al- : every impartial man. The Noble Lord then pro.
*alga custodia. His Lordship concluded with moving though we were assisted in the capture by Frenchmen, I ceeded to consider the present motion in referees 1
resolution, the substance of which was—That it was who were adverse to the Government then subsisting, I the question of peace, and appealed to the Wesel
important to the honour of the country that the ships yet there could be no pretence for requiring those 1 Noble Lords, if it would not be more for the haze
captured at Copenhagen should be kept in a state ships to be given back again to France, except that we of the countzy, if they could f
which might not prevent their eventual restoration to - entered into en agreement with Frenchmen in op- after a voluntary concession ..,
Denmark, upon the establishment of peace, or under . position to the then subsisting GoVernment, by than the subsequent degradation
other circumstances. I which we engaged to restore the ships to Louis the exacted by the stipulations
Lord BORINGDON could not suppress the anti- ; XVIII. when he should be restored to the throne of Lord HARROWBY den,
ety he felt to enter his protest as early as possible, France. It could hardly be contended,
that such an any inconsistency or citric..
against the resolution submitted to the House by the agreement, either by its letter or its spirit, bound us to . ledged by Ministers, as justifi,
Noble Viscount He concaved, that a proposition' give back the ships to other persons besides those for I gen expedition ;as to the vele
more novel in its principles, more unsuitable to the 1 whom we took them in trust. The case of the capture ; a Noble and Learned Lord
circumstances of the case, or the interest of the coun- iof the Danish fleet was totally different, as it- was ' sured that expedition, and
try, amid hardly be submitted to the country; taken, not from enemies, but from neutrals. In con- Noble Lord need not have
of die Honse: The external enemies of the sidering the propriety of adopting the present resolution of coquetry :he was i
had pledged themselves to obtain a restitution of i doe, he should argue on the ground of the necessity sive, and as to the energy .
those sliiift; but he now, for the first time, had the I being completely acknowledged, al
ed, though his own Lord had given vent to
mortification of seeing within those walls, a Noble opinion of a was very different. If he were to decline, that subject, perhaps the lines
Peer rise up and support the arguments they had used, however, stating what his opinion was of the justice ,to a coquet,were not in the'
and in this respect aid their designs. It certainly and policy of the measure, he feared he would be applicable,
was not within the walls of Parliament that he had thought to be in some measure coquetting with the Perhaps It was right to ..
expectect to have heard such arguments defended. It House. He should therefore declare, that, in his But why did you kick me
was not doing justice to the motion itself, to discuss opinion, there was no act that ever he had heard of The Noble Lord then proceeded
it as if it were to be construed altogether literally, or being committed by the Government of this country, • the expedition, and recapitulated t.
as if the spirit of it would not go to the actual restora- which so much disgraced its character and stained its have been urged in its defence,
tion of the Danish fleet ; far if the House were to honour ; and, as an Englishman, be felt dishonoured stating, that if the expedition
agree to such a resolution, it would be considered by whenever the national honour was_ tarnished. He sequent capture of the Danish
all the world as an acknowledgment that we had acted could not avoid reprobating in severe terms the expe- ! capture as far as related to
unjustly, and a pledge that we would make a restitu- dition to Copenhagen : it reminded him of and should be attended wit
tion as soon as it was compatible with our security. " Tb' ill-oinened bark, Lord ERSKINE in reel;
If we were now to give such an acknowledgment, it " Built in th' eclipse, and rimed with curse dark." the Noble Lord who had je
could not be supposed that foreign nations would not He thought the object it had in view was most unjus- , virtuous energy with which
;take advantage of it at the moment of negociation for tifiable, and that even in the success of that object it
,Friend had spoken of what •
a general peace, and it would then appear as if we had would bring great calamity upon the country. When lation of the rights of nations.
.no.eight to refuse it. T .Noble Viscount had con- it was attempted. to be justified on the plea of nem- immortal orations, remarked,
lidded • se end thit there was no- sity, it shotdd be recollected, that by that word was phlegmatic character,thather
thing like it in our history. lie might, however, have meant an urgent necessity, and not a mere predomi- ' cities with such a frigid am
temembered the case of the ships taken at Toulon last nating convenience. It appeared to him that many him almost an accomplice
war, which mere surrendered to us by Frenchmen in persons considered a justification enough to say, that it arraign—not so his Noble ;
trust only, and which were promised to be restored to was very convenient for the country, in this instance, thought of the measure in
the King of 'France. The French Government gave to appropriate to itself that property which another ful outrage, and a laudable
every harsh epithet to this transaction ; they called it who hadthe right, was possessed 'of. This was a sort' prompted him to speak with
perfidy, treachery, and pirat' ; and at the commence- of doctrine which he was so much in the habit of re- • But as. to the quotation
merit of the negotiation for a peace, required that probating at the Old Bailey and other places, that he ing one observation, that
those ships should be restored to them. The British could not avoid expressing himself • with some kicked them down stairs,'
Government, however, would never listen to such a warmth when be heard, that principle urged as an their gl&rious expedition _
proposal; and the French ceased to insist upon it. If, ample justification to the nation, which never could the bottom. But with regard
however, a resolution similar to that which was now be admitted among individuals. As to what was ' diately before their Lordshi
proposed had been adopted 9* that occasion in Par- stated of hostilities afterwards taking place with Den- 'it had been widely departed
liament, the FrencliGovernment would never have re: mark, he thought that circtunstence made no differ- ' justice or injustice of the I
ceded from its claim, and those ships must have been ence. If he were to refer to the case se often quoted, , thing to say to the subject ;
restored to France. The Noble Viscount, however, of a person being justified, by necessity, for pushing' He was, for instance, will
Hider whose auspices the treaty of Amiens was con- another. off a plank into the sea, it must still be al- required (nothing of whir
eluded (a treaty which, whatever might be now said lowed that the other is equally justified in retaining of that expedition, adaai
against a, he always thought, and still did think, was nOssession of the plank if he can, and that his enclea. various pleas of necessity
proper under the circurnitances in which it was. vouring to retain it is no act of hestility against up.-- latent hostility, avowed
macie)—that Noble Lord himself did not think at It appeared to him, that the right of Denmark to a I the mode of capture of
that tune that. there sr.4s any thing in justice, morali- restitution of the property so taken was by no means ; there was na previous hostilit
ty, or the law a. nations, which required that the altered by any subsequent hostilities—and that thie! ground of hostility, no ma
Toulon fleet 'should be restored to France. There right was so clear, that we might make up our eninds., was true or false. It might
was anther case somewhat similar, which occurred to the restitution, being demanded at the conclusion minated a seizure previous
in the beginning of the. present war with Seim- When of peace. He therefore thought that we should' keep j vious ton declaration of \
the four Spanish frigates were taken'to any hemhemin such a state, as that the restitution might be in an amicable character,
previous
declaration of war, the Frell Inveighed bitterly made with as little expiate or inconvenience as pus- 'an amicable footing. Had.
sible. He was prepared for doing justice ; but he intention of open hostile
againir thie act of piracy (as,they called it) ; and yet
thcY nevee thought nrmaking It a condition of peace,. would wish in some degree to exercise a penurious tired the case ;_ but we
that we should restore the shills and dollars taken justice., so that the restitution should not be more bur- they were lulled into sect
upon thee occesicei •: but if, in either of those eases, a thensometo the country than was absolutely necessary. they should purchase the
ratit hafil,jbecii paised in the British Parliament For these reasonehe ;direly coincided in the motion reign power,by the serre
similar that which was now proPosed,' thew could .eftis Noble.Friepd, . ninon for ever. Thecomi
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that from the conditions of that cor
'Rhea doubt hut they would have detnandect it, and in- -
fisted. upon it. Besides, .ill consequences would fol- the high respect he felt for his Noble and Learned A great deal had been .
low froippledging tee etemeryto restore **.ships to ' Friend. (Lord Ellerdeortsugh), and from the weight self defence. He. would
He. ewe 'his opinions always carried' he felt anziqus to remove way of illestretien, to
Derlitigk, or in otbez wi rds. to twiace.
contend that the act of kiting them was not an act of . the impression which his Noble and Learned Friend fence was tortured. into
the character_ that had been ifisCribed, but that it was had. made. The Noble and Learned Lord had ap- question : he sees a
an act of necessity juitifiedliy, all the cirepingantes ie.ared. to disPos'e in_ a very. summary manner, both some weapon of offence,
of the tan. Denmark had for a considerablen4‘ g thcin.slJee.
_and. meraii#,y.Of the Cep. en. expo'
which he knew- that per.
ber of years 'hewn- a hostile disposition tovrards-Great he;
ane,ot the Cases. cited. ley his Noble Friend tin his destruction---"
Britain, and at the same erne a sort of predilection (lA4 Psorisagdon). kle expressed his surprize that the fled him in anticipating
for France, or at least an absolute aequieicence with Noble and Learned Judge should impute injustice the fowling piece
from ..

with •
or jos
broug
duty
Noble
Lo

greater ad .'ng which that Poweriiid. This w„atn- hopthe cc
-• 4.41. •
:ting,. ~. th,...... 4 . their making no remoastranairiiten a ed cc
even . 7,7 1 ''4,, 1 was ta/pn risoner;,oss- their art, case at t
rl upon .. .77 .11- 'a, „.. . y their with) their troupe frtan . the port it.,
x being ,Ipbr 4. 'IT?. of Holstein, i abe&enpa toCthe tlesirt of ,that the
the destru • - ' lk-7- .ce—by their submission to ilha.Decree ci. Bona- ,and cha
land, which wam.., • rte, and in various other ways. •If this tion of
ing any use of
.the for France could.beiloatesi-br:a. IIY
tatitime superiority. shoutyl *refer bliii to the very.able alspatch eof a Nate' that
[ enough to contend Earl (Earl Grey in answer to M. Rist, the Danish constitu
hi. He could not Minister. That Noblaarl, in the strongest sad best ships 2rl
- . ____l-:--i ~ thse rheDanishl4l- .re4—th

•
Ls Denmark, >tnd,
met with ••• • 71
ng evidence to tam, ,7,
;...
d Friend had
of national hpy'lle • runway '
d into the consideral s -
lode of dealing oitt
;le Lord contsrad.
t and by that of • .4dl
.u.it be tesistee,
I had not been-testo, lbws& gli
n.Spain hnd-notle
at Toulon had A
,taas.against diet*
country was decisik lisqlolA**"
captured bxame tit tots o',l
ontended the preset t?
lands of theintrou. • on
it his duty to ongqith
noble Viscount. : fiat
it necessary to te4 o.llloB‘.
what sully etas* *O4"
. lt irad beetle,* •
Mated. the pet*
ledby. the Noble la
Lek, at all try im Irl
ogati4e of the(4l, .
uU resolve, dm kit conslinoll
shouldre4erveto • widola
the
aut"shblipizistobleseitedliiii.; isgvvrant twice.
base
an itself. He chtivAl
rays thought, that ix ;3'05'0
ranted but upoe tadeinP
se of necesssity had beet eessity
least, was inposy:tie tiL 1-4
irr.utt them in decith as w
le result of hard mat, irged t
present to go iota sw yak, 1
rvaricating unarms milling
n defence of that va.
rpresented as sincetth ji I
but too weak to act, ryrra
r, they were told, *Ty at
ionable, her means =l.
and provided against,.
the sole ground of ter antral
angements of the treaty the ant
tempted to trace the/ tentior
authentic. source, Pao. the •ser
at forward as the kit. mitia

ia.gxdtcoibeonmamme°arenfcoef:rn but li
are arts, negociaieid*e surres64ll"
ynade
n upon their pea
ltd
of l treatyenied,tat ?there hates joeence
idiction in the reasons t. (
c
Lstificatory of the .. r
vehement manner in 1t.4
d (Ellenborough) had lion
those who advised it, .Mar,
e apprehended the• take
more than sufficiently tactic
y with which the - anus
cis virtuous indignation and
lines that had been ap.
present instance wholly *Di
aria
o dissemble Tourisme, shot
me down stairs ? •
,:roceeded to a vindication
tulated the arguments Weds ifici
iefence, and concluded by .44.4
ion was justifiable, the an - c
mish fleet was like any add
o the question of forfeiter,
ith thelike consequeotes. 1
ply to theludicrousquastiond acv
just sat down, defended de by
ich his Noble and ...
at he thought a flagrant
ions. Mr. Burke, in one •
•ked, upon• a person of • :414
it he spoke ofoatrages
and, ii sensate apathy as ...al
ce in the crimes he affected V
le and Learned Friend. tk
in question as of a dig, si
ble impulse of manly -- • ,u
with the sincerity he ?.•
itself, he could not help .
t his Learned Friend had
f..r he haidfound theme
had already placed
regard to the question....
•dships, he was of opinion dis
rted from; theclifistion,t) i
1
he Danish eipedition
ect now befure theirLosdsbi'
;Ming to concede all that
jell was proved) jus
Bitting' for a moment all
ty, self-defence, secret - •
I weakness, &c. &c. Ete, • •
f the Danish fleet was
lostility, there was no al
. matter whether that ,
night have been absost
-ions to a war, certainly
of war—we wet* to their
ter, and treated with these
ia.d.we set out with an as'
litYiitwouldhave snaterially
e 'took them by surpriee,
:clarity, and then proposed
:he temporary protection of si
rc nder of their indepock'nce
Dmpact was n .t esiterediumi
:unipact were not gone throe
t said upon the plausible ples
ald take a very, simple case •
chew. how the plea of set
any. application to' the Pr
person forcing from t.. '
nce, a sword- or fowling et.
person meant to use in el'.
-well, the law of eattise
tine his enemy, by'
ma the weak- by-stianele I '''