The Sun.
London, England, 1842-08-05 00:00:00

t* his invention. The offer of Captain Warner was
t liberal one, and he hoped that the House woula
grant a Select Committee to inquire into the ettbAset.
Sir 11. DOUGLAS said that but for the pOSition
in Which he. was placed with respeet tics knptain War
-
tier, he should not have risen to take part in that
discussion. From the statements made by the Hon,
taronet, the House would expect some explanation
fro 1
In him (Sir 11. Douglas). Soon after his return to
the country, he was sent for by the Master-General of
Ole Ordnance, soliciting him to become a member of
•If.Cominission of two officers, the other to be selected
6y himself; to investigate and carry on a course Cif
exPeriments, for the purpose of testing the effeettey
of certain inventions of Captain Warner, and report
to the Government on the subject. He (Sir Howard)
1-)ouglas) expressed his great unwillingness; as he knew
that difficulties would be attendant u-.on it, but he was
requested in very strong terms tt.„2 accept the offer ; and
Il'ght lion.- Although he did not believe himself so qualified as his
Friend %gas so kindly disposed to think he
,
yet.belier.nag it was for the aerviee of his country,
w; "Tnte"..t the offer upon certain stipulations, which
rq 'teat the d-ty should be gratuitous, that they should
ue quite clear from any previous engagement with respect
to these experiments, and that they should have nothing
whatever to do with the amount of compensation; that they
should have nothing to do with that, but leave the Go-
Yeratnent perfectly free and unembarrassed, and to enter
Into negotiations or not with Capt. Warner and the Go-
vernment, as they might think fit. The experiments
`'ere tube of two sorts, as Mr. Warner had stated that
41S invention consisted of two branches—one to be tried
water near at hand, and the other to be tried at a ci,n-
'ialerable distance. A memorandum was drawn up on the
;22d of January last., on the part of the Commissioners
appointed to inquire into the matter—namely, him-
(Sir H. Douglas) and Sir E. Owen, That
"temorandum was to the effect that it Series of experi-
Zents were to be made in their presence to investigate
he' value of the discovery, that they were to have
tletking to do with the question of compensation for the
."funiunication of the secret, bat that the expenses of the
the
were to be borne by the Government, to whom
,"e Commission were to report the result. To that memo-
andein Mr. Warner expressed his entire and distinct
‘agent.; Mr. Warner, however, delayed making the ex-
periment until after Sir E. Owen had left this country ;
Byam Martin was then associated with him (Sir H.
7..nt its) in the place of Sir E. Owen, They called ou
Zr. Warner for an estimate of the expense of the experi •
"rds ; they had made arrangements for carrying them
i;11, and they (the Commissioners) were ready. Objec-
,Pns, however, were them made by Mr. Warner with
i,e,sPect to the purchase of the discovery of his invention
,7 case he succeeded. The Commissioners declined to
'Ater into that question. A communication took place
'fret that subject with Sir George Murray, who stated
nt the Commissioners were right in refusing to
,01 out any 'promise with respect to the pur-
Z.ase of the discovery, and that the Government
,f!re not disposed to guarantee to Mr Warner a sum
‘,.+110,0001, before any experiments had been made, in
y.tiley should prove successful. It appeared that
Ir'AVVrter wished that an experiment should be made
It* ti cask placed at a distance beneath smooth water.
(Sir H. D.) said that he should have nothing to do'
blowing up a vessel in the way stated. He believed
Zta tetsk might be blown to pieces in still water with
;Plosive mixtures already known. He wished that the
M§eriment should take place in the open sea, in the
idst of the ebb and flow of water. He had no hesi-
,tion in saying that Captain Warner was an utterly
vel
g
earned man as respected science. If, however, he
under circumstances of wind, weather, and time,
tt'L'eh should be pointed out, ruin the defences of a fort
the miles distance ;if lie could upset the guns which
47 should place in it; if he could destroy the animal
awithinit, amounting it might be to two or-three hun-
:tll head of sheep; if he could do this, not only without
mtilaging the surrounding country, but so as to show
!'t this tremendous power was under control, and
,ht be used with perfect safety to the users, and that
,0 was of such a nature, that the country purchasing it
k„lthi reserve to itself its exclusive use, then, though he
ght be unscientific and in some respects visionary, he
Culd have made a most omnipotent discovery, placing
high in the hpa of history, and classing him with
hOwarts and Bacon; but, until this had been done, he
no hesitation in saying, from the little practical
knowledge which he possessed, that he would be very
ledulous of any such powers.
BROTHERTON begged to read to the House a
Clethter:•%which he had received from an officer at Oporto.
a! lion. Member then read the letter,, stating that
poPtain Warner had undertaken destroy a battery in
adrtugal, but that 'he failed to do so, alleging that he
othenot the proper kind of gun for the purpose. An-
-18.2 letter from an officer at Oporto stated, that in
for Captain Warner sold- his invention to Don Pedro
roent,Qt)ti 't,)oo/ ; but that he declined making'
the experi-
hand. neas the consideration money was paid before-
it
though
did net 'Warner's contract with. Don Pedro must, he
still extant in the War office at Lisbon. He
he thou reed these letters to prejudice Mr. Warner, but
h..,;ght both the present and the late Government
acted very the
in not buying
01' , a pig in a poke.
, PEEL said that, although he had come to a
(k:4l'.Y different conclusion from the' lion: Baronet
~._"r F. Burdett) he believed the Honourable Baronet
actuated solely by zeal for the public service in the
ou•se which he had pursued. As, however, the subject
been brought forward, he felt bound to lay before
q House the facts of the case. . His lion. Friend said
tiofelt conscious that if they had a full House the mo-
-441 would be agreed to. Now he felt perfectly satis-
se4,,,that if the 658 Members who constituted the House
tt"anons were all present, it would be impossible to
,ten to vote for the motion.—(Hear, hear and
t,,"goter.) What was the proposal ? That a 'Select
Wrninittee be appointed upon. the subject of Captain
loltrner's 'invention. Why; for what purpose? It was
lte clear that they would be perfectly unfit to try the
Peritnent. If fifteen Members were selected from
side, of the House to try whether or no Captain
ll,4tner could fulfil the promises which he had given,
was it possible that his secret could be preserved ?
419 Presumed that the object of moving for a Com-
%„.,'ttee was not to supersede the owrs ofthe Ordnanee
Q't the Board of Admiralty, but, in point of fact, to
et. a sort of censure or reflection upon himself
4 not having acceded to Captain Warner's proposal.
hi' felt, therefore, that he was called upon to vindicate
14,1bself from the reflection which this motion would cast
Welt
him. He could assure the House that he had
Welt more time to Captain Warner's invention than the
44(4130 would readily believe. It was necessary for per-
th" in office to pursue a middle course with regard to all
110,0 supposed new inventions, which were offered to
thtlil• it, would be presumption in them to disregard
Csra altogether, and if on the other hand, they listened
c' lightly to proposals for new inventions they would
my, equally open to blame. It would be presumptuous,
t'll'er What they had seen during the last twenty years, to
itht that no improvements or inventions could take place;
on the other.hand, if they were to give 400,0001.
:;Zehand to every person who performed a certain ex-
ent in a certain manner, they would very soon not
re a shilling left in the Treasury. Offers of wonderful
thveations were made to men in office every day. Since
1.2 last debate had taken place on this subject he had
t;'°ived a letter from an officer, dated Ist of July,
114 ting that in the course of his professional studies he
hitd discovered' a composition far superior to Mr. War-
laugh)—andd that a single shot striking a
1e-of-battle ship, would ensure her destruction ; that
'n' William had promised him any reward for his in-
itention ; and that if he (Sir R. Peel) would grant him
N't,interview, he would convince him of its efficiency. He
R. Peel) had returned him the same answer that he
:turned to all such applicants—that the Government
b 041 d assist him in his experiments, but that they must
k„e Performed at his own expense: This rule was neces-
F`rY, for if these experiments were permitted to be per-
e_ Poled at the public expense, the time of the Boards of
,i'drairalty- and Ordnance would be wholly occupied in
tII'PQ-intending experiments. But he had departed from
t'at rule in the case of Captain Warner. He had said
Captain Warner, your experiments shall be performed
t the public expense. Certainly when they heard a
gentleman say that he had invented a combustible -which,
lit the distance of six miles would destroy any fort or
„,'te-of-battle ship against which it might be fi:ed, it did
~""and rather marvellous, especially to persons who
he
anything of the laws of projectiles. But
e had not on that account scouted Captain Warner
and his invention. On the contrary, he bad said, " You
than have every facility for performing your experiment
4,t the public exponSe. The hulks were ready to be fired
Lat PUrpo
was not necessary to have line-of-battle ships
offifor
se)—the fort was ready ; there were two -
-,"r6 ready to superintend the experiment ; all they de-
Vtsed to know was how Captain Warner could disclose
secret in such a manner us to prevent it from becom-
inggenerally known. How long could they prevent this
discovery becoming known to the enemy ? how long
Ras
it likely to be their peculiar weapon ? were ques-
'''')ns which he must have answered before he consented
e) lay out 400,0001. They must, most surely, be made
I;quainted with those, circumstances. ow, he Sir R.
eel) would not guarantee one shilling N (of that reeney
fNeent for making the experiment. He positively re-
f, se any guarantee of public money under hypothetical
7'reUnIStaTICCS, and he was sure the House would join him
In that refusal. Captain Warner now said that he was
not content with the two nominees, Sir Howard
rOtglas and Sir Byer"' Martin ; and he wished to have
hrd Hargrave or Lord Ingestrie added to the number.
! (Sir Robert Peel) positively declined to do any such
,I,"g•----7(Iiear.) Surely the names he had mentioned
lit'PC quite sufficient w, thouthaving a nominee of Capt.
„Cott,
in the matter.—(llear.) This subject had
„",en. under the consideration of the House since 1834,
Lord Auckland was at the head of the Admi-
7tY ; and the very same difficulty occupied their at-
4.rition then as now. Permission having been obtained
for an experiment a week before, the Bth of July, 1834,
Was the day appointed, and a Committee, consisting of
ordnance, and six i:aval officers were to report upon
t"e result ; and Captain Warner was to be ready to ap-
-I:e4r before the Committee on that day. The week
Issed, and the Committee reported that Captain
Varner objected to appear at .Woolwich,—he further
I.`(luested that three officers of each service instead of
s,or should form the Committee, and that Monday, the
should be fixed for it to come off. Monday, the
'lst arrived—three of each service instead of six bad
"1i appointed,—and the' following official announce-
tlent, was received from the Committee :—" We have
8 11011 OUT to report for the information of the Master-
`-/eneral that we proceeded to Wanstead Park, and after
making every inquiry in the neighbourhood we could
.:)111Y find that he had left the place that morn-
-11A;i. for London, and his return was uncertain."
s; "PI Lord Vivian was Master of the Ordnance, a
similar offer was made, and he (Sir R. Peel) undertook
th° do the same thing. He appointed several officers, and
m",.`‘' 'were they treated, he would ask, by Captain
„,a,,_rtter? Why,
1. Ili they were told the Captain would do,
--ug Ltu)ess 4e had 400,000 was in, hopes now'
•