The Sun.
London, England, 1842-05-06 00:00:00

Now those were the declarations of the Hon. Gentleman
--d,elarations which, as a Member of Parliament, he 1
was fully entitled to make, of which he (Sir J. G.) had
no right whatever to complain, since they were boldly
made, and made openly to his face. But entertaining
those opinions of his conduct, having formed those opi-
nions without waiting to hear what he had to urge in his
vindication, coming from the calm atmosphere of that
judicial tribunal, the Southampton Committee—(Loud
cries of " Hear, hear," from both sides of the House)—
entertaining those opinions, what was the motion with
which the Hon. Gentleman had concluded ? Why, he
imagined that the Hon. Gentleman would have concluded
with some motion condemnatory of his conduct—some
address to her Majesty, praying that he might be re-
moved from her counsels.—(Hear, hear, from the Min-
isterial benches.) No motion of the Hon. Gentleman—
if he really entertained the opinions which he had ex-
pressed—no motion could be too strong for the occasion.
—(Hear, hear.) But what was the miserable subterfuge,
the wretched evasion, by which he had escaped from a
vote 9f that House ? Why, he had concluded with a
motion asking for a paper which it was impossible the
Government would refuse.--(Hear, hear.) He frankly
avowed that he was responsible for those appointments.
though, as the Hon Gentleman said, the Lord
Chancellor was technically responsible. He did
not say that any divided responsibility attached
to his office. He told the Hon. Gentleman, and he told
the House, that he (Sir J. Graham) only was responsible
for the advice tendered to her Majesty in respect to
these appointments. The Hon. Gentleman said that it
was most desirable to have a Magistrate devoid of poli-
tical character, and at the same time he expatiated
largely on the great advantage of a municipal Magis-
tracy chosen by the people. Now, in the present state
of parties in this country, it might be most desirable to
have Magistrates free from all political bias, but in the
present divided state of the public mind he (Sir J. Gra-
ham) did not see that it was possible, if they had muni-
cipalities chosen by the majority of rate-payers. Was it
not, he said, absurd, to suppose that under such circum-
stances the Magistrates would be devoid of political
bias ? Now, if it was impossible to find muncipal Ma-
gistrates free from political bias, he must decidedly agree
ith the Hon. Gentleman that it was most desirable that
the Magistracy should be composed of persons possessed
of influence in the narrow circle of the neighbourhood.
He admitted that it was most desirable that in those
communities whose property, lives, and persons were
affected by these tribunals, it was of the last importance
that those communities should, without exception, have
confidence in the justice of those who exercised that
jurisdiction. As the Hon. Gentleman said it was not just
—it was not right, it was not safe that persons exercising
authority in those communities should be attended with
the character of partisans. Those tribunals should be
so comprised as to assume an exclusive character. The
Hon. Gentleman had stated that he had no complaint to
make against the appointments which had been recom-
mended.—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) The
Honourable Gentleman was so minute in his criticism,
that when he talked of Hull—a place which he
the Honourable Gentleman had had the honour of
representing—he distinctly admitted that, with respect
to the gentlemen whom he (Sir J. Graham) had recom-
' mended to the favour of the Crown,in that case he had not
one word to say against the selection. So minute was
the criticism, that he had nothing to say against the
persons, his objection was confined to the particular place
in the list which Dr. Alderson happened to assume. He
(Sir J. Graham) did not know the reason of that, unless
the name was placed there alphabetically ; he knew no
other reason. Now he (Sir J. Graham) would take a
view of the circumstances in which he found the muni-
cipal Magistracies, when he had the honour of coming
into office.—(Cheers.) He did not mean to go into any
minute particulars ; he would avoid that, and state ge
nerallly what was the condition of the municipal Magi-
stracies when he succeeded to office, what were the mo-
tives which actuated his conduct, and leave the House
and the country to determine whether he had forfeited
the confidence of the country by the course he had pur-
sued. The Hon. Gentleman had very correctly referred
to what had taken place on the original passing of the
Municipal Bill. With respect to the statement made
by the Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Home Depart-
ment, it had been proposed, by the then Government,
to introduce into the Municipal Bill a provision
that the municipal Magistrates should not be ap-
pointed by the Crown, but elected by the town council.
The clause, containing the enactment, after full dis-
cussion—

Lord J. RUSSELL—It was not a clause, but merely
a recommendation.

Sir J. GRAHAM thought the provision was em-
bodied in a clause; however, it was the intention of the
framers of the Bill that the municipal Magistrates
should be elected by the town council, and not nominated
by the crown. Did the Noble Lord dissent from that ?

Lord J. RUSSELL might be wrong, but, as far as his
recollection served him, the provision was, that no person
should be appointed by the Crown, unless recommended
by the town council.
Sir J. GRAHAM was obliged to the Noble Lord for
his correction, and he would state his case according to
the Noble Lord's conception. At the time the Bill was
brought forward, it was proposed to limit the power of
the Crown. That was the mode of nomination proposed
to Parliament, and it was rejected by the Legislature.
The undoubted prerogative of the Crown was recog-
nised by Parliament., and the absolute power of nomi-
nation was given to it. The Noble Lord, either during
the passing of the Bill through Parliament, or immedi-
ately after, made an announcement that, notwithstand-
ing the decision of the Legislature in the way he had
stated, that in the exercise of his power as a Minister
of the Crown, he would not appoint any Magistrates
unless they received the recommendation of the town
council ; in short, that he would, by the use of the pre-
rogative of the Crown, or rather, he would say, the
straining of it, frustrate the decision of the Legislature,
and give effect to the opinion of the town councils. Now,
the Noble Lord having established the rule, it was of
the last importance that he should abide by it. Now he
(Sir James Graham) would just advert to one or
two cases of appointments by the Noble Lord, in order
to show how strictly the Noble Lord had adhered to
the rule which he laid down of not appointing any per-
sons except those recommended by the town council.
The first case to which he would call the attention of
the House was that of Bridport. The town council
there were very much divided in politics, but they agreed
in recommending to the Noble Lord a mixed Commis-
sion of the Peace. But the Noble Lord if he (Sir Jamas
Graham) mistook not, set aside the recommendation and
appointed five gentlemen attached to the party now on
thel Opposition benches of the House, and one of the
principles of the party now on that (the Ministerial)sido,
—(Cheers.) However, that was a case which might
appear not very strong. But he would now bring the
attention of the House to the case of the borough
of Hastings. In that borough the town council had re-
peatedly recommended one gentleman, residing in Hast-
ings, as a person quite fit to fill the ffice of one of the
town Magistrates. Now, the Noble Lord repeatedly set
aside that nomination.—(Cheers from the Tories.) But
it might be said that in that case, there was some par-
ticular reason wily the Noble Lord had thought it his
duty as the responsible advistr of the Crown to make that
case an exception to his own general rule, and not to act
upon the recommendation of the town council. But let
him now mention another case, that of Bristol.—(Cheers.)
In that city, at the first election which took place under
the Municipal Reform Act, the parties in the town coun-
cil stood in this relative.positioni—there were 24 Conser-
vatives, and 20 of the opposite party. Both parties, for
the sake of peace, came to the determination that they
should recommend an equal number on both sides, twelve
Whig-Radicals, and twelve Conservatives. Let the
House remember the doctrine of the Noble Lord, that
they should have in the municipalities important tribu-
nals, Magistrates above the influence of party-feeeling,
and that the local administration of justice should neither
be violated nor suspected.—(Hear, hear.) It had been
said that he (Sir J. Graham) had been compelled by his
Conservative supporters to swamp their opponents, and
to reward and strengthen his partisans, by giving
them seats on the Magisterial bench. Let them
take the conduct of those Conservatives in the
Bristol town council. The Conservative majority was
predominant, and very predominant, and what did they
do ?—(Hear, hear.) They had a majority, and they
knew that the Noble Lord was bound by his promise to
abide by the recommendation of the majority ?—(Hear,
hear.) Did they take advantage of their superior posi-
tion ? No ; but for the sake of harmony they agreed to
recommend twelve Magistrates on each side.—(Hear,
hear.) But what did the Noble Lord do ? He took the
twelve recommended by the Whig-liadical Ministry, and
six of those recommended by the majority, rejecting six
from the list of that majority.—(Tory cheers.) Amongst
those rejected was Mr. Daniel—(Hear, hear)—who was
at the head of the Conservative party in Bristol—(Hear,
hear): -a man of large property and of unblemished re-
putation, and possessing the confidence of his fellow-
citizens. .He was rejected on account of his alleged ill
1836 to the present day he had enjoyed
health and shamed the weak pretence—
eeringing him at the head of the le
)—and he (Sir J. Graham) had
health,(ihnGavdra theeraiat b
ootgnr f3oor,
ouoa:cmi
placing
Con-
servative of
M ,y agistrac... ' but not for the same alphabetical
guided
reason which him in the case of Dr. Al-
derson, but, on
account of his station and character.
Allow him now to bring under the consideration of the
House the case of Poole. In the spring of 1836, it being
understood that Lord
ohn Russell would adopt the re-
-1 commendation of town councils throughout the kingdom,
not read the names
sent in the following list to the Home-office. He would
would imagine, would have exercised some discretion,
and would have taken some and rejected others who
were recommended by the town council: The whole
by the town council of Poole were re-
jected by the • Noble Lord, and he substituted for that
list another list of names. He appointed, he (Sir James
Graham) thought, seven magistrates, and would the
House believe it, notwithstanding the recommendation
of the town council, who recommended Conservatives,
one of them only was
connected with the Conservatives.
Now, in the first place, he was most anxious to assure
the House, that he viewed with extreme regret the ne,
cessity of inquiry into the political opinions of municipal
powers connected with the administration of justice.
He saw as strongly
as any Gentleman opposite the
great misfortune that justice should be so con-
nected with party politics. But that was not
the case with which he had to deal. He had
to deal with municipal Magistrates, steeped up
to their necks in party politics—(Hear, hear)—and
it was not for him to determine should this Magistracy
be so deteriorated, but finding it so, should he with
firmness and moderation apply a corrective.—(Hear.)
He conceived that with the honest purpose of avoiding
undue temptation on the part of the Magistracy to inter-
fere with party politics, there were two classes of .per-
sons whom he thought should not be appointed—those
were practising attorneys and .brewers.—(Hear, hear.)
The late Government made no such exceptions in, their
:ippointments-7-they appointed both brewers and prat-
rising attorneys. Notwithstanding the practice had been
so exteusive ke (Sir James -Gragiu) wris aot-araid-to

apply the corrective generally—and he had applied it
generally.—(Heir.) On the other side practising attor-
neys and brewers had been very generally appointed ;
but he (Sir James Graham) was not aware that there
was to be found on the whole of his list one practising
attorney, one brewer, or one beneficed clergyman.
He had stated that the Noble Lord had not very strictly
adhered to his own rule in regard to making appoint-
ments from those recommended by the town councils.
He wished now to bring under the notice of the House
what was very remarkable, that when Conservatives
were appointed a very curiot.s selection was made in
many instances. Conservatives were, it was true, ap-
pointed in some instances, but in many cases—it would
be tedious to go through the whole list—in many cases
gentlemen of Conservative opinions were appointed who
either had positively informed the Noble Lord that they
would not act, or who had made a statement to that
leffect through their agents, or, as was the case in several
instances, who were from particular circumstances dis-
qualified from voting. He might illustrate that by several
examples ; but he did not think he could find any case
which would make his assertion more clear to the House
than the case of Norwich. In the year 1837 he found
that six additional names were selected by the town
council of Norwich to be added to the commission of
the peace ; three of these were Whigs, and three were
Conservatives. These six were approved of by
the Government ; but while the three Whigs
were active men, in the prime of life, two of
the Conservatives were extremely aged, and the
third was paralytic. At another period he found there
were 19 Magistrates appointed, 13 of whom were Whigs
able to act on the bench, while of the six Conservatives.
two could not act, one was unable to walk, and of the re-
maining three, one was 86 years of age, another was 77,
and the third was 75.—(Hear.) It would be tedious to
go through details on the subject ; but still it was his
duty to bring under the notice of the House, in a com-
pendious form, the general results of the proceedings of
the Noble Lord, as contrasted with his proceedings. The
Hon. Gentleman said, that the object of the Noble Lord
had been to select not from any party exclusively. He
believed the Hon. Gentleman even went the length of
saying that the Noble Lord had succeeded tolerably well.
He would read to the House some specimens of that suc-
cess. The Magistrates appointed in Bath were twelve ;
of those nine were Whig-Radicals and two Conservatives. I.
In Burnley thirty-three Magistrates, of whom twenty-
seven were Whigs and six Conservatives. Boston five
Magistrates, all Whig-Radicals. Carlisle ten Magistrates,
all of the same party. Coventry twelve Magistrates, all
Whig-Radical. Tenby four Magistrates, Whig-Radical.
Derby, eight Magistrates, Whig-Radical. Dartmouth,
six Magistrates, all of the same party. Flint, eight Ma-
gistrates ; Grimsby, seven, all Whig-Radicals. In Li
verpool thirty-one Magistrates had been appointed, of
whom twenty-five were Whig-Radicals, and only six
Conservatives. Newcastle-upon-Tyne sixteen Magis-
trates, of whom thirteen were Whigs and only three
Conservatives. In Poole, which he had mentioned be-
fore, there were nine Magistrates, of whom eight were
Whigs and one Conservative. Portsmouth, fortunate for
being represented by the then Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, had eleven Magistrates appointed, all, without ex-
ception, supporters of the late Government. In Rich-
mond, Yorkshire, there had been four Magistrates ap-
pointed, all Whig-Radicals. Stockport, twelve Magis-
trates, alt of the same party. Sunderland, ten Magis-
trates, all Whig-Radicals: and that brought him to the
question of Gateshead. There were two or three towns
in the county of Durham, having each municipal Ma-
gistrates—Stockton, Sunderland, and Gateshead. the
aggregate number of Magistrates in which amounted to,
he thought, about twenty. In Stockton there were three,
in Sunderland ten, and in Gateshead six, that was nine-
teen in all. Of all those municipal Magistrates of the
county of Durham, one only was Conservative; the six
Magistrates of Stockton being all Whig-Radical, the
ten Magistrates of Sunderland, all, without exception,
of the same party, and of tlee six in Gateshead, one
being a Conservative. And now he was complained
against in his place in Parliament for having advised the
Crown to temper this state of things with moderation !
—(Hear, hear.) Because he had endeavoured to over-
throw a tyranny- of this description, by which, under
the forms of justice, Justice herself was prostituted—
(Hear, hear, and cheers)—by a fair exercise of the pre-
rogative of the Crown ! Let us have done with trum-
pery motions of this description ; let the lion. Gentle-
man raise the question fully and fairly before the Hous, ;
let him appeal to its decision; and let the House itself
pronounce whether or not he had discharged a duty iine
perative on him.—(Hear, hear.) He had not yet . ex-
hausted the list, and would proceed to Tiverton, where
five Magistrates were appointed, all Whig-Radicals ;
at Totnes, four appointed, all Whigs ; at Walsall, seven
appointed, six Whig-Radicals, one Conservative ; at
Wigan, fourteen appointed, thirteen Whigs, one Conser •
vative ; at Worcester, nine appointed, eight Whig-
Radicals, one Conservative ; at Yarmouth, of nineteen
appointed, eighteen were Whig-Radicals, and one
Conservative. At Kidderminster it had been stated
that the Noble Lord appointed three of one side,
and three of the other ; but it was singular that shortly
afterwards, one of the Conservatives died, and the Noble
Lord filled up the vacancy with two Whigs !—(Hear.
hear.) And what was the whole state of the municipal
Magistracy, when he acceded to office ? Omitting fifty-
seven Magistrates from thirteen places, where he had
not added to that Bench, and which, therefore, were not
included in the list, the whole number of the Magistracy
was 1,026 Magistrates, nominated by the Whig Govern-
ment, of whom 743 were Whigs, and 226 Conservatives.
That was the proportion he had to deal with when he
came into office ; the appointments themselves were
cavilled at by the Hon. Gentleman ; individually he did
not complain of the selection, but he rested his com-
plaint on general grounds. The gross number had been
increased from 1,026 to 1,435. The House would recol-
lect that he had been accused of yielding to undue pres-
sure in his exclusion of particular names, but in no in-
stance did he displace a name from the list ,which had
been left by his predecessor. He had received communi-
cations on the subject, but he always answered, that the
march of the Government would be unsteady
if lie removed those names which had been
left by his predecessor. He did not think it
would be safe to enter into the question of individual
character; and he therefore did not remove a single name
from the list.—(Hear.) The entire number now was
1,435, and yet he was accused of swamping the Magis-
tracy. He denied the conversation attributed to him
with the gentlemen of Devonport. If the Hon. Member
had it from any person who was present on the occasion
his recollection might be more accurate than his (Sir J.
Graham), but, speaking from his recollection, he should
say he was misinformed on the subject. But so far from
wishing to invert the balance of parties—though in some
cases that was the case—(Cheers)—the general result
was that whereas the proportion before was 743 to 226,
the proportion at present was, Whig-Radicals 745, and
Conservatives 629.—(Cheers.) He would, therefore,
appeal with confidence to the House that he was nut
seeking to swamp any party.—(Cheers.) But lie was
ready to vindicate his ciinduct on special or general
grounds. It was asked from what source he derived his
information. He did not apply to the town council, but
he was responsible for the advice he had given, and to
the best of his belief he had not made any objection
to individuals, ex rept on the lastest grounds.
He could say that he derived his information as to the
character of individuals from the highest quarter,. --from
gentlemen of honour and integrity, on whose represen-
tations he could depend, and on whose recommendations
he acted.—(Cheers.) But he would now let the blouse
hear in what way the Noble Lord, the Member for Lon-
don, when Secretary- of State, obtained his information
with regard to the character, age, and to the politics also,
of those whom he appointed to the Magistracy. In a
Buckinghamshire newspaper would be found a notice to
correspondents, which bore date January, 1836. There
was there a letter, dated " Reform Association, 3, Cleve-
land-Tow, 24th of January, 1836," signed " James Cop-
pock," and directed to James Bowles, Esq., Wind-
sor. He would read to the House that let-
ter :—" Will you have the goodness to in-
form me by , an early coach to-morrow morning, the
professions or trades, and politics of the following gentlemen in
Windsor—W. Lee, R. Blunt, R. Pigot, E. Bovenden, and Sir
J. Chapman. I shall feel much obliged by your attention and
reply. Yours, James Coppoek." The answer bore date the
29th of January. Mr. Bowles began by apologising for the
delay, which he stated was caused by his having been absent,
end the letter continued thus—" I now beg to forward to you
the information you require. W. Lee, brewer, Liberal ; R.
Blunt, saddler, always supported the Government, and voted.
for Ramsbottom; R. Pigot, the like ; E. Bovenden, gentle-
man, and Liberal; Sir J. Chapman, surgeon, High Tory."—
(Laughter.) Now he found in the records of the Home-office
the appointments en lst of February, of W. Lee, the brewer,
and the Liberal ; of R. Blunt, the saddler, who always sup-
pried Bamsbottom ; of E. Bovenden, the Liberal ; of R.
Pigot, the like; and at last of Sir J. Chapman, for decency's
sake, although he was a High Tory.—(Laughter.) He might,
indeed, have been deceived—he might have been unfortunate
in the appointments which he had made ; but as yet no gentle-
man whom he had recommended to the Crown to be placed in
the municipal Magistracy had been convicted of treason.—
( Loud cries of ‘. Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches. )
He was not the Secretary of State who had recommended John
' Frost to fill the office of Magistrate.—(Cheers.) He would
not add one word in reference to the Hon. Gentleman's mo-
tion. He would only say that he wished him joy of the speech
which he had made on that subject.—( Cheers.)
Mr. FOX MAULE—Having occupied the official situation
he did.in the Right Hon. Gentleman's office during most of
the period referred to by him, must be his excuse for address-
ing the House. On the present occasion he addressed the
House under considerable disadvantage, as be hail not access
to the documents the Right Hon. Gentleman had. There were,
however, some points in the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech
which he thought he could give a satisfactory explanation to ;
before, however, alluding to them, the blouse would, per-
haps, allow him to say that he thought the Right Hon Gen-
tleman might have answered the speech of his Hon. Friend
with a little more calmness and temper. He could not see
what necessity, there was fir alluding to the position of his
Hon. Friend . in an Election Committee. He thought he
would have been more likely to have carried the public with
hint in his defence, if he had abstained from any such allu-
sions. The Right Hon. Baronet might have drawn some dis-
tinction between his own position and the position of his
Noble Friend. His Noble Friend's pe,sition was this : After
the Act of Parliament passed which abolished the
01. l Magistrates in the municipal towns,
. it was his
duty to advise the Crown as to the constitution
of the municipal Magistrates. The clause giving a
vote to the Crown was rejected by ;he House of
Lords, and when the Bill, with that. clause struck out, came
down to the House of Commons, his Noble Friend, in order
to induce the House to accept the Bill, stated that though the
power of the Crown was paramount, yet he, as Secretary of
State, might modify it. They ought to appoint men to ad-
midster justice, in whom parties to whom they were to ad-
minister justice entertained entire confidence. No man
could say that in. the selection the Right Hon.. Baronet had
made, in listening to the recommendai ions generally of the town
councils, that he had failed to fellow a just and right principle.
It was not so, if it was not just. why heave it to tikm ? It it
was not just,.why did the Government submit to the passing of
the Scotch Reform Act, which gave to the municipal council
the election of municipal Magistrates without, the interference
of the Crown, which system any Scotchman in that House would
tell them worked well, and of which there had been no com-
plaint? Why did they continue that system in Scotland it'
it was so . obnoxious in England? If it was so obnoxious in
Enslandi why did they not interfere in the great City.. of

London, where Magistrates were men of the highest respeeta- I
bitit y, and which city win, the highest in the world? There were
cities in this country no: less respectable and intelligent, though
they did not stand so high in point of commerc as London,
equally entitled to this privilege. His Nob:e Friend, after
the elections took place in 1836, issued a circular to the ho
roughs, in which circular he intimated his intention of listening
to any recommendation they might send up. But the Noble
Lord, contrary to what was stated by the Right lion. Baronet,
did not pledge himself to attend to that recommendotion. He
left himself entirely open to exercise his ju Igment It tumor
out, that the great maj city of Magistrates appointed by the
Noble Lord, were of one political party. He del not mean t.,
deny that it was obvious in 1836—50 obvious, that the Right
Hon. Baronet, at the head of her Majesty's Government
brought the q'iestion immediately before the Hou-e; acid it was
also brought before the House of Lords by Lord Woarneliffe,
and a very long debate en-ued in both Houses of Parliament.
The very case in Bristol to which the Right Hon Baronet
had alluded, was discussed in 1836, exactly as it had been
discussed that evening. The house of Commons then disposed
of the case, and it had been revived exactly that night
as it had come before the House six years before. The case or
Mr. Daniels was then referred to, and he ( Mr. Fox Mauls)
could not imagine why the Right Hon. Brironet had placed
him in the Commission of the Peace of Bristol, except
it was to confer an empty honour in the evening of his dais,
and without at all being useful to the town of Bristol. lie
asked, was Mr. Daniel's case a fair one for the Right Hen.
Gentleman to put to the House, and could he take any'credit
to himself for conferring on him a mere empty honour ? The
Right Hon. Gentleman read a long list of places, and to every
one he received a corresponding party cheer, as to the party
politics of the Magistrates in the various boroughs; but the
Right Hon. Baronet did not say, nor did he intimate to the
House, in any way, that those lists were not the lists sent up by
the town councils, nor did he presume to say that they had been
altered to suit the purposes of the party then in office.—
( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. F. Maule) believed those lists to
contain the names of those recommended by the town councils,
and if they were recommended, however different the propor-
tion might be, he was ready to maintain that the parties having
confidence in them, in their administration of justice, no injury
had been done to the individuals in those boroughs. The Right
I-lon. Gentleman spoke of his lion. Friend who brought forward
this motion, having made a great charge against him, and then
ended in a paltry motion. What had the Right Hon.
Baronet done? He had made a much graver charge against
the late Ministry who preceded him in office—that of prosti-
tuting justice.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. F. Mauls) had no
hesitation in saying that the Right lion. Baronet had given
utterance to an accusation which was totally, utterly, and en-
tirely groundless—( Hear, hear),--one which could not be
proved; for if it could have been proved, he was not the n-an
to have left it untouched.—( Hear, hear.) Justice prostituted
in England ! and that to be asserted in a speech from the
Secretary for the Horne Department, in that House of Com-
mons—( Hear, hear)--and that to be asserted for no other
purpose than that of getting a party cheer ! That assertion
was utterly groundless, and he would fearlessly appesl to the
people of England, and more particularly to the mu-
nicipalities of England, to give a firm and direct
contradiction to the accusation of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
And he (Mr. F. Maule) must say that until he came for-
ward and retracted that accusation, or did by proof substantiate
it to the country, he himself stood in an equivocal position.—
( Hear, hear.) That was his (Mr. F. Maule's) opinion, and
he thought it was the opinion of the country at large—Hear,
hear)—tor did the Right Hon. Baronet suppose that such an
accusation as he had made was to be passed over by that House,
or by the people of England ?—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon.
Baronet had in the course of his speech contradicted an aster-
then of his Noble Friend and colleague the Lord Chancellor,
who was reported to have said in another place that " in no
instance in the recent additions to the Magistracy had
the balances of parties been changed." He added that,
" lie would yositively assert that in the appointments which
had been mode, the prerogative of the Crown had not been
exercised with a view to give a majority of Conservative Ma-
gistrates in any one case." The Right Hon. Baronet had, in
passing, contradicted that statement ; and he, too, was pre-
pared to contradict it. He found that in the borough of
Gateshead the original number of Magistrates was six, five of
whom were Liberals, and one was Tory. The Right Hon.
Baronet had added to the cumber six Tories, thus subverting
the original state of the respective parties. Again in Bath,
there were two Tories, two absentees, and six Liberals; the
Right Hon. Baronet had added seven Tories, thus again
subverting the respective position of yarties. In Chester
there were three Tories and tour Liberals, to whom the Right
Honourable Baronet had added six Tories.—( Hear )
In Dover there were five Tories anti seven Liberals, to whom
he added seven Tories. He (Mr Fox Maule) would not men-
tien these eases, but that the Lord Chancellor of England, in
his place, deliberately and unscrupulously stated that in
no instance had this addition t ffected a change in the balance of
parties. He thought the Noble and Learne Lord mu't have
dune so either from ignorance, or from that readineso of asser-
in which he sometimes indulged—(Th, oh, and cheers.) He
now came to Poole, tin which tile Right Hon. Gentleman had
laid considerable stress, and accused his Noble Friend of reject-
ing altogether the recommendation of the town council. He
(Mr. Fox Maule) admitted at once that his Noble
Friend did reject the recommendation. But he thought
that when the House considered the fraudulent means
by which that council was erected, and the conduet of the
r• turning officer ; and when he brought their attention to the
Report of the Committee of that House appointed to inquire
into that election, the House would see that his Noble Friend
was justified in rejecting the recommendation—(Hear, hear)—
especially when it was considered that at the time the whole of
the acts of the council were questioned in a Court of Law. The
returning officer was Mr. Hebert Slane, the old Mayor, who,
when examined before the Committee of the House, admitted
that he in all eases where there were duplicates of candi-
dates, had taken the Tory list first and recorded the votes,
refusing to look at the lists offered by the other side.—
( Cries of " Hear, hear.") It was that person who selected the
list of the town council which Lord J. Russell rejected, and he
asked, was not his Noble Friend justified in appointing another
set of Magistrates ?—( Hear.) The number was eight Liberals
and one Tory. The Right lion. Baronet added five Tories,
among whom was Mr. Slane, who had been guilty of the frau •
dulent return—the man who was mixed up with the transac-
tions exposed, before the Committee.—( Hear, hear.) That
was the man selected by the Right Hon. Baronet for the Magis-
tracy. How could the confidence of the people be reposed in
such a body? It was extraordinary that the Righ Hon.
Baronet should accuse his Noble Friend of political motives in
these appointments, when in the borough of Poole he himself
should have appcinted a person who must have been cogni,ant
of a fraud in the return. He preferred the system pursued in
Scotland as better than that of England ; but still, in the absence
of it, he would attend as much as possible to the recommendations
of town councils. There hart been no accusation of misconduct
against the individuals appointed by the late Government, and
if there had been, it had always been at te.ided to. Under these
I circumstances he thought it -was unwise and impolitic in the
Hon. Gentleman, in eight months, to have made such a sweeis-
ing addition to the municipal Magistracy. It might be fo'-
lowed as a precedent, which would compel them in borough
towns, to have recourse to other modes of administering jus-
tice. Had he taken all the vacancies by death and removal and
filled them up with Conservatives, he should have made no oh-
- jection ; tut the course he had taken was a bad example, which
lie hoped might not have the effect sf lessening confidence
in the administration of justice.

Sir J. HAMMIER, in connection with the discussion, ad-
verted to the appointment of the Marquis of Normanby as
Steward of the Borough of Hull. He did not think the late
Government could be acquitted of having made many of their
selections in a spirit of partisanship. Im media; ely after the
passing of the Municipal Act there were eighteen Magistrates
appointed in Hull, and out of the number there were but
two Conservatives. The present Government, in adding to the
number of Magistrates in that borough, had selected, among
others, two gentlemen of the highest respectability, well known
in the commercial world, who had formerly been rejected by
the town council ; and the result of the appointments was in-
creased respectability and increased confidence in the bench.
Mr. HENRY BERKELEY said that the Right Hon.
Baronet had not stated with perfect fairness the case of th
appointments in the ci'y of Bristol. In that city twenty-tour
gentlemen had been selected by the town coined, twelve o
whom were Liberals and twelve of whom were Tories. But ttf
the twelve Liberals two never voted at tali at any elections, and
two had actually voted against the Liberal candidates.
Mr. BROTHERTOiNasaid, when the Corporation Bill was
in the House he hatVivided in favour ce &aiding the towns into
wards. He stated at that time that he had great objection
to making coiTorations political bodies. He believed in Man-
cheater that the reason of there being so many Liberal Magis-
trates was, that gentlemen professing Tory politics had refused
to have anything to do with the corporation. He was sure
there was a feeling on the part of the Liberals of Manchestor
to concilia.e the Tories.—( Hear, hear. )
Sir C. DOUGLAS felt bound to say a fsw words on that
question, as it was a subject in which many of his constituents
had taken a great interest. It had been stated that thu Noble
Lord had thought it his duty to consult the town council, but
he thought it would have been well for him, with respect to
Birmittgham, if he had consulted a petition that had been pre-
sented on the subject from the clergy and bankers of Birming-
ham. That petition showed clearly that the appointment
of Magistrates was very unfair, and ought to be altered.
The Noble Lord gave no answer to that petition, except
acknowledging the receipt of it. In Coventry, 12 Whigs had
been appointed, and a memorial had been presented from that
city, praying that some Conservatit es might be appointed. The
Magistrates of Coventry had shown as much partiality in grant-
ing licenses to public-houses, as it was possible for them to do.
No license was granted to any Conservative, however anxious
he might be to obtain it.—(Hear, hear ) In Stratford-on-
Avon, the town council recommended three persons for ap-
pointment—namely, a Quaker, who had never voted, a Radical,
and a Conservative. The Government rejected the Conserva-
tive and accepted the Radical.—( Hear, hear.) Under the
Municipal Act, the town council of Warwick recommended
seven, of whom, one only was a Conservative. In that town,
parties were very nearly balanced. A petition, signed by
six hundred persons, was sent up praying that two
Conservatives might be appointed. But five only
were appointed, four Liberals and one Conservative.
With regard to the granting of licenses in Warwick, of fifteen
which had been granted, thirteen were Liberals; and of those,
one, who had gone over from his party to the other side, was
deprived of his license, on the ground that his house was a
noisy one. He would next advert, and in a few words, to the
conduct of the present Government, with respect to the
borough of Warwick. For the purpose of neutralising the ex-
treme party appointments made in that place by the late Go-
vernment, he had applied to the present Government, stating
that the prevalence of Conservative opinions among the inha-
bitants of Warwick, entitled them not to a majority of Con-
servatives in the borough Magistracy, but to an equality with
the Liberals; and he recommended three gentlemen, whose
conduct had given much satisfaction to the inhabitants, and who
were of independent fortune. Nothing could be snore fair than
the conduct of the Government on the occasion—they appointed
four magistrates of each party, and left it to the people them-
selves to appoint by election the Mayor, and thus to have it in
their power to decide which party should have the majority on
the bench. He thought that he had made out a sufficiently
strong case to show how impartial had been the conduct of the
Government. with respect to the borough which he represented.
Captain MANGLES complained of the conduct of the Bight
Hon. Baronet with regard to the borough of Guildford. A
Noble Lord, in another place, had assumed that the majority of
the respectable inhabitants of the place belonged to the political
party to which the Noble Lord belonged—( A voice from the
Ministerial side of the House, " To be sure")—and that the
Noble Lord, the late Secrete! y or the Home Department, had
shewn great partiality in his appointments to the islagistracy at
the tatrough. He (Captain Mangles) thought he could chew
the House that both these assumptions of the Noble Lot d were
incorrect. First, with regard to the assertion that the politi-
cal opinion preponderating in the borough, was decidedly
Tory ; he would observe that in MI, two Liberals were re-
turned for Guildford • in 1832, a Liberal and a Conservative
were returned, the Liberal being at the head of the poll. In
1837, the Liberal was voted out on petition, and two Tories re-
presented the borough, being the only instance of a similar
nature which had oseured, and in 1841, two Liberal Members
had been returned. So much for the assertion, that Tory
opinions preponderated in Guildford. Now, as to the political
opinions of the Magistrates appointed by the Noble Lord.
Four gentlemen had been appointed by him to the Magistracy
of those, two were gentlemen who voted for Liberal candidates
at elections, but who, beyond the mere act of voting, took no
part in politics whatever ; they were most respectable men,
and of very moderate opinions. One was a gen-
tleman whose political opinions were of the mos
moderate description, but rather inclining to Conservatism,
and the fourth was a very strong Conservative;
,and the Right

Hon. Baronet hal thought proper to destroy this balance 11
apps intlug to the Magistracy two of the most active partisan*
~f his own party. As a proof of the manner in which the
late Secretary for the Home Department had acted, in rela-
tion to their Magisterial appointments, some time ago, be
(Capt. M.) before he was a Member of that House, bad re-
corn mended a gentleman to be a Magistrate in the event an
vacancy occurring, of which at that time there was a strong
prokbility. This was on the eve of an election. The Go"
vernment knew that he (Capt. Mangles) was a candidate at
that election. They knew that two Tories were oppeied to
nim. The majority of the town council was Tory. ~Therel
was every temptation to the Government to comply with Whi
request; but the answer he received from the Noble Lord wail
that the rule laid down must be strictly adhered to, and that
unless the gentleman in question was recommended by the
town council he mould not be alaointed.
Col. SIIITHORP said, that the town of Lincoln felt-exceed'
ingly gram eful to the Right Hon. Baronet for his appointment
of the Magistrates in that town, for at the time the appoint-
ments were made, there was only one Conservative Magistratein the town. The Right Hon. Baronet appointed five gentle-
men, and more exemplary men could not exist. There still
remained a majority of them on the Whig side.
Lord R. GRO VESNOR would not have addressed the
1-101.13 e, had he not felt a deep interest in the subject. With
regard to the town of Chester, the Noble Lord, who sat near
him (Lord John Russell) had appointed six Magistrates three
Whigs and three Tories. Since that time another Magistrate
had been aided, and he was a gentleman favourable to
the Government of the Right Honourable Gentleman, but he
had refused to vote at the election, because he could notgive tt
to
,a party attached to his own principles. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had no notion of the state of party in the town of
Chester. The town council was remarkably free from an,
party f,eling ; as an instance, he might tell the House that
gentleman, the present Mayor, would never take part in
any address to the Throne which bore reference to party, al'
though he was considered an active partisan. He thought it
right. to mention these few facts to the House. His Hem
Friend, the Member for Gateshead, had asked the Right Hot,
Baronet upon what principle he had appointed these nese Me'
gistrates ; but the Right Hon. Baronet had avoided any' repli
to the question. The only principle he seemed to have gone
upon was, that the appointments were made solely because they
were political partisans ; and if so, the Right Hen. Baronet
was introducing a dangerous principle.
Mr. MAIN WARING said that the appointment of Magis',
trates generally were the appointments of the town -council
virtually, although they were appointed by the Secretary et
State. With respect to the town of Newport, there was ne
town council to make a recommendation. The commission,
of the peace was, before the late appointments, in a very bad
state, and the consequence was, that during thetime the late Go'
vernment were in office, a remonstrance was sent up, complain-
ing of the state of the comission of the peace, and the Go'
vernment promised a remedy, but they kept the word of
promise to their ear and bloke it to their hope. The present
Government appointed six Magistrates, three of whom were
Whigs, and three Conservatives, so that there was no favour
show in that case.

Mr. LAM :TON said he wished to say a few words on this
subject, as reference had been made to the appointment of Ala'
gistrates in the county of Durham. It hail been stated' by
Noble Lord, that there had been fifty appointments of the 3:11'
gistrates for the county of Durham, by the late Government,
only sixteen of whom were Conservatives, and all the rest
Whigs, He should not have attached particular importance to
this observation, but that he recollected that the appointmeote,
were made by the late Government, on the recommendation 0'
the late Duke of Cleveland, and he (Mr. Lambton) felt called
upon to allude to it. He was prepared to show that no •charee
of party appointments could be brought against the late Ad'
ministration. How (lid the case stand? The appoint;
ment of Magistrates for the county of Durham rests°,
with the Bishop of Durham, as Prince Palatine ' and
Custos Rotulorum. The Noble Lord, who sat near
him (Lord J. Russell), had always acted on the recommendation
of these parties and the late Duke of Cleveland made his re'
commendation upon those of the Chairman and Court of Qua"'
ter Sessions. It did so happen that the last appointments of the
Noble Lord were upon the recommendation of the Court 0,
Quarter Session, and were two Tories—( Hear, hear)-eMle'
ftobert Certy and Mr. Robert Redley. It bad been said be s
Noble Lord, in another House, that the :tiagistrates of Sunder:
land hail refused to grant licenses of public-houses to any bl°
their own
.party. This was a very grave and solemn aecusation,
and he called upon the Noble Lord, or any Hon. GentleMe°
who supported him, to prove that accusation. His (Mr. Laltellr
ton's) impreeeion was that the Magistrates of Sunderland Weere
peifectly innocent of the charge brought against them. if t'P',
Noble Lord could prove that accusation, he (Mr. Lavabtoni
would be one of the first to stand up to hold those Magistrates
up to the censure and condemnation of that House and the
public, but if it could not be preyed, it was, in his oPi's
non, most unjust to bring it forward.—(Hear, ,beer_e•,
They might have done ill on one side, but he thought they bre
done much worse on the other.—( Hear, hear.) Theeool;
principle on which they ought to argue this question, le"
whether or no the Magistrates ought to be elected by the
people. people. Here they saw the Right Hon. Baronet stand
his place, steeped in party politics up to the very lips. elsh„
was a melancholy sight to see. Let them recollect who wet:
looking on their proceedings.—( Hear, hear.) •Public opioic"
was watching what they were doing at that moment; foreielt
nations, who were accustomed to admire our institutions, would
,
see that the Lord Chancellor got up in his place. arid 'state°,
and the Home Secretary repeated it, that appointments to the
Magistracy should henceforth be founded upon party pi r°
ciples. He would appeal to the House whether this was
principle on which the Magisterial appointments in this countrl
were to be conducted. He hoped such a principle would a
be allowed longer to exist, though they might have erred upon
both sides. He trusted that the Right Hon. Gentleman at the
head of her Majesty's Government would command thoe.e
energies which he possessed in so eminent a degree, to see i
there could not be some other system more proper, 'We:
English, and more constitutional established, of appointing te-'
Magistrates of this country.—( Hear. )-
Mr. W. T. EGERTON said that the Hon. Gentleman Who,
brought forward this motion, had spoken of packing ithe lots
institutions of the country. What could afford a better seeel.
men of packing than that which took place in the year Bee'";
in the county which he had the honour to represent? In Te
borough in the county there was net one Conservative ineeh' or
wAhporliel, bt,e,nerceh
woefreMtaegnisAtiraateisst.ratlens
oSnt othckepboernt,chi,n
atuhewmoirrueerasi
cals; in the month of June, which was just-after the eerie a
election, and when it was pretty well known what would Dave
been the fate of the late Government, a list of five gentlere'd
was prepared, consisting of three Whig-Radicals, and Wlt,
the other side. What did the Noble Lord do? lie said
would act on the same principle as his predecessors had done
What did he do, therefore? Why he appointed three gentle,
men, all professing Whig principles, and there were then this
teen Magistrates in the borough all professing those prineiPles.
He hoped occurrences of this kind would be now and for ever
done away with.---( Hear, hear.)
Mr. JERVIS said be thought there was some excuse for the
Right Hon. Baronet with reference to the part he had takel
in the borough of Chester, which he: was abed
could not be found for his conduct in other place!'
It was not to be supposed that if he were liable to ese
mistaken, those who were behind him should have beeo,n,ve
fluenced by party political feeling in the nomination of
parties whom they proposed. The appointment of silt TorS
gentlemen, in Chester, had produced the greatest confusion
and dissatisfaction throughout the city, and if the Right 11,,5'
Gentleman thought that those appointments would give otg;
:action, he could not have been properly acquaintedwith
real state of feeling in that city. Parties of all politica,'
creeds in Chester had determined to keep apart frortqa
political feeling in their municipal elections, and there was, 0
believed, no place where party had so little to do with those
elections as there ; they did, out of compliment to
Liberal party, always appoint a Liberal Mayor, but the el“e
e,,
men and town council were universally chosen from the too
fittest to fill the situation. There i were indeed there it/
contests for the magisterial chairs, the only ditneeurbe
was to get a fitting person to serve at all. est
Right Honourable Gentleman, therfore, must not be surPris
ld
if that which had hitherto been a peaceful town ehrke
he changed altogether into one where political partisanle
should prevail. No one knew from %%hence the recommen ray
tins tame for the appointment of those six Magistrates ; °fed
one suspected the source, and the whole of the odium res.),
upon the Right Hun. Baronet.. It would be invidious to
lode to the fitness or unfitness of individuals, and he thought 4
Hon. Friend hail adopted the right course in giving the -Riess
:ion. Baronet praise for the capacity and fitness of all :tiroe
whom he had appointed. The Right Hon. Baronet said "bs
he congratulated himself, that this motion had been brats* 6
forward, and he was obliged to his Hon. Friend for hot.
brought it under the consideration of the House. He (s,".
Jervis) could well understand in what feeling the Right el‘rbi
Baronet had said that he could well understand that the Rig
ld
Hon. Baronet, conscious of the innocence of his conduct, big
come down there well satisfied with the integrity of.
m_
purpose, and well prepared calmly to vindicate ln.dig
self ; but he (Mr. Jervis) must say that ha' bps
not observe, from the course which the Right Honours a
Baronet adopted in answering his Hon. Friend, that he se° se
gratified at the disclosures which had been made tiethe FiVed;
or so confident in the justice of his conduct, as he had inePile 0
He could not well understand how the Right Hon. (Sentleen°,
could, consistently with the office he held, commence his mares,
in answer to his Hon. Friend with personal matter, svhieloe
quite irrelevant to the matter in question.—( Hear, hear)! ao
did he think it well or dignified in the Right Hon. Gentlerbt
to conclude his address by alluding to an accident, which ne,tnbs
even happen from the impar ial recommendations of the 111/fest
Hon. liaronet.—( Hear. ) The Right Hon. Baronet ntsete
be well aware that the Noble Lord, before making the aellwlnisl
Auer
to to which he referred, had taken the best course he r
to ascertain the fitness of the individual for the office. Nettlesse_e7n e
could he (Mr. Jervis) understand how the Right Hog.
eo'.ek. tre
could consistently stigmatise the party with Ifn i. Was
was formerly associated, as " Whig-Radical." • us The
of
a new-coined term, invented for the exclusive "- The
those who had seceded from the Liberal ranks.
violent
Right Honourable Baronet was once a most rss,
Whig, he had used the term as an excuse for his twee" to
tion, and had called them Whig-Radicals.in opt°
that very wide term " Conservative."—( Hear, hear.) Lee,
him call them if he chose " Whigs," let him call the";
Liberals," or let him call them " Radicals," but let him' Ote
apply to them that epithet which was meant to itint-,
ignorance. But he (Mr. Jervis) eared not what words he enee
for it appeared to him, that the words had been used by
Bight Hon. Baronet only as an excuse for hiverb",
in having seceded from the Whigs, became se e
aeon t
alleged they had joined with the Radicals.—(Hear, bear',/,
The Right Hon. Baronet had not by any accident fallen fsei
one Whig, in the appointment which he had made.--(Cheer,°)
He did not select brewers, or clergymen, or Whig-Radiell
he supposed, from his dislike to them ; but when he spcito.L
desiring to avoid all party feeling in hi* appointments, anan,
it was not desirable to appoint brewers, or attorneys, or bee;
ficed clergymen, or persons engaged in manufactures, iles
manufacturing towns, that they should not have to decide ele
cases of wages in which they themselves might be interestenee
should recollect that he had appointed silk. mercers .11
cotton-spinners in the town of Congleton to satisfyet
people—( Hear, hear)—who would have to decide in es°,
(,f wages. He did not, then, adhere to his own principles
The very letter which the Right Hon. Baronet read ellOsenesf
that the Noble Lord kept himself free from local influencee,
persons on his side of the House were not found writing °tic
NaPle
letters. He was not there to justify the conduct of the sesese
Lord, but if it was bad, why did the Right Hon. Baronetsn?
to justify himself by reference to the conduct of the Nolte
—( Hear, hear.) When he considered the important functSts
of these :Magistrates, and that they were to perform their, sl'est
ties without any rerson to check or control them, *re(
hat they were, as he believed, appointed for the seitClb
obtaining political influeiice—( Hear, hear)—by preserl se
mg their official duties to those Magistrates, by giviDg.:ht
ccnses to those who supported the Government, he th°;es
the county was coming to a melancholy position, and. itses,
vain to condemn constituencies for swerving from their du(
when such lures were held out them by Government. senee
could not but think :that such was the object, when the mlye
Chancellor said it was necessary, to restore confidence, theyte'ser
power of granting licenses should be in the hands of Go,
ment.—( Cheers.)
toofibe
Mr. SCA RLETT said that he did not unders
sedoo
grounds upon which the Hon. Member who made this nl&
had discussed it. He agreed with him that the case of ill test
was the highest concern of the Crown, but•he considered ripe
the Right Hon. Baronet had only take a right step inleel°,Sese
hat security which ail persons should have in. the adeninlele
.ion of justice. —( Cheers. ) In 1830 the :cooduct. of the ee,;,
toed was discussed, end lie met with a harsh conderone'LcA
but he must say the Goverfluitutt tivsestAilkheirAliataiO'