The Sun.
London, England, 1820-06-29 00:00:00

EDUCATION OF THE POOR..

Aftr a short conversation bett‘eera Mr. D
and Mr. BanuotiAm, respecting the precedence of
their respective motions, which stood lor this
evening, in txhich Mr. BRouGHAH stated that if
he should he compelled again to postpone his too•
lion on the subject of Education, it would te
probably fur the whole Session, as a Bill might
be expected next week from anther House, and
he should then devote himself entirely to the im-
portant cause which he was entru4ted to defend,
Mr. DALY consented to give stay to the Hon. and
Learned Gentlem tn.

Mr. BROUGHAM thanked the Hon. member for
the candour with which he hail received his ap.
plication. lie 'was' awire, after the itilp,rt,int
subject on which the Howe had been recently

engsgeti, that the Achill 12e was ibont to rater on -
would appear dry and uninteresting. It was still
leis duty to go into it, and he sheuld now pro-
ceed. It was now two years since this inquiry
was first instituted ; and he must first of all return
his warmest 'honks to the Clergy of the Esta-
blished Cherch, for the aid they had given on
this occasiou, and without whose assistance the
measure could never be rendered effectual. He
would detail the assistance which he had received
from them. The first measure the Committee
adopted was, to address a circular to the elifferent
"Clergy in the Kingdom, praying for certain re•
turns, and in two days he received GOO. and be-
tore the end of a week, 2600 more ; and in a
short time from the whole 11,000 Clergy, with
l'he exception of 360, had been received, but it
afterwards appeared that these 360 had also made
returns, and that they were the most elaborate
and important returns of the whole 11,400, and
as such had been selected from over care, and
mislaid, These 360 persons, however, were again
written to, and chid for not making tbeir return,
and the House would scarcely believe that every
one of the gentlemen took the trouble of sending
new returns, and, with the exception of two,
without a murmur at the unjust charge made
-against them. This was :4 proof of the good will
existing in the minds of the Clergy towards. the
education of the poor. The result of this con-
duct on the part of the Clergy was, that the di-
gest of his plan was now prepared, and in the
hands of several Members, but to this there must
•also he a key, which he must prepare, to enable
the House to understand it. The Honourable
tel then proceeded to describe the torture
of his digest mud key, by which at one view the
state of edocation in every town and village in
the kingdom, and the means of cal-lying it ou,
serodd clearly appear. When the late Mr. Whit-
bread brought forward his plan for the general
education of the poor, Mr. Percival complained of
The want of information, which the present digest
%%mild supply. The Honourable Member them
proceeded to advert to the err oeeous opinion which
had existed on this te!lject. The late Mr. Cottle-
bout), in his Treatise, estimated the norriber of poor
children wanting education in England and ‘Vales
at 2,000,000. Now this could not be ; for tak-
ing the proportion of children at one in 10, of
the population, this would fie. the number of in-
habitants at 20,000,000, and allowing every other
to be a pauper, trere would be et least 2,000,000
more children who would have education, and
4 000,V00 of children would take the popalation
at 40,000,000. Mr. Colquhnee having thus en-
umerated the number of poor in gross, recom-
mends a school should be established in every
parish, end takes the poor at 800 io each parish ;
whereas, the average did not, in fact, exceed 85
in each parish.—This instance would sisew how
erroneous the general calculations on this sub-
ject were. The linnoureble Member then pro-
ceeded to trace the rise and progress of the
schools since the year 1260, in Scotland, at Aber-
deen, and other places. Ile also adverted to a
Statute passed by the States General in 1660,
onnishiug parents fur not sending their children
to school to learn grammar. He then proceeded
to take a review of the different French schools
front early periods, and particularly to one estab-
lished in France in 1729, to which the Pope gave
Iris sanction. And at a later period, the Intend-
ant of the Police of Paris, speaking of the School
for the Ignorant, established in Paris in 1723,
says so good an effect had the Establishment bad
'on morals, that his Police had cost hint upwards
of 30,000 francs a year leas than before their es-
tablishtnent. The Hon. Gentleman then proceed-
ed to quote other authorities in support of the
Metrication of the Poor. The present Pope even
et-commends the establishment of Schools for the
education of poor children, and ignorant country
persons ; and this he says can best be dune by
providing Schools, where they will be taught
what is good, and prevented learning whet was
had. This opinion of the Pope was given in a
letter written by his Holiness in September last.
Ile trusted he should not be mistaken ; he bad no
intention of teaching the poor languages, mathe-
matics or fluxions. To do so, would, indeed,
take them from the cultivation of the land. But
he had no such intention ; though he still thought
that the poor might be taught something more
than the first rudiments without danger. The
brother of the immortal Burns says, in a letter to
a friend, " I can say from my own experience,
that no avocation of the tarmiug life is inconsis-
tent with the refinements of the mind, threshing
alone excepted." This lie acknowledges to be in-
consistent with refinement ; and declares his opi-
nion, that the man who invented the thrashing ma-
chine, ought to have a statue erected to his me-
mory. The Honourable Member then proceeded
to detail the plan as appeared to the Committee,
It appeared, that in the endowed and unendowed
Schools of England, there were means of educat-
ing 655,000 children ; now this was one four-
teenth of the population ; but the number of
children should be taken at one ninth or one
and here was only provision for one four-
teenth or fifteenth ; besides, from the 655,000
was to be deducted 33,000 children who were at
Dante's Schools, where they learnt nothing ; this
would reduce the number educated to one six-
teenth ; and even here, previous to 1802, none of
the new Schools, those under the Bell and Lan-
caster system, were established. They educated
180,000 ; and therefore previous to 1802, there'
was only education for one twentieth part. And
in the Principality ut Wales, the proportion was
one twenty-sixth ; whilst in Scotland, the propor-
tion was one-ninth. The proportion in France,
at present, was one twenty•eighth ; at present there
were 1,066,000 children educated ; whilst in
1817, there were only 866,000. Here was an
extreordirotry improvement ; for in two years
above 7000 Schools had been established by pri-
vate exertions only ; and in 10 years, if they went
on improving, then there would not be an un-
educated person in France. In Switzerland there
was not one person in sixty of ally rank, who
-could not read writing. And in Holland there
were 4451 schools and provisions for vine-grins
one-tenth of the population. The lion. Member
then proceeded to take a review of the Sunday
Scbuols ; there were 400,000 in those schools,
but 430 t more than,lo9,ooo of these &Aitken could
be. added elgoijag to any otter school, end :Awe-

fore that would make the %bole tunther•educated •
700,000, leaving one-fifth of the population with- ;
out education. He would next look to theretnru
of the number of schools? and it would appear
front the returns that there- were 3300 parishes in
England, in which there trete no schools, either
endowed or unendowed ; whilst in Scotland there
was an endowed school io catty parish. He
would next look to the state of Middlesex ; and
here, excluding the Dames schools and the New
Schools, instead of one-fifteenth the proportion
would be one-tort y-sixth only. The next county
was Lancashire, and here the proportion was one-
28th ; whilst the average of Dorliani, Cumberland,
and Not thumberland, was one-tenth, arid of
Westmorland one-eighth. In the six Midland
Counties, the average was one-24th ; next the
Eastern, Suffolk, Norfolk, and E•sex, the average
was one-21st ; Somet set and Doom, was one-
-24:h. Now, taking into consideration the popu-
lation of the neighbourhood of the sea coast, and
the avocations, it would be found, that crime kept
pace with the want of education. In the four
Northern Countiea, the proportion of-poor was '
as one in 15 ; in the other Comities the poor was
as one in 11. In the whole kingdom the average
of commitments for crime, was as one in 1400.
Ie the four Noi them, iltey were as one in 4200;
in the six Midland, the commianteuts were one in
2100. The Hop. Member went on to.state the
proportions in other Counties. In the four Nor-
thern Counties, 37.000 children paid tot their
edocntioo, whilst 16,00041 W riot pals In ?the six
midland Counties, 16,000 paid, and 28,000 did
not pay. 1 he proportion was equally di;adeau-
tageotis to the other Counties io England, com-
pared with the Northern ; and in Scotland, few
indeed took education for nothing ; the peasant
of Scotland would stint himself in necessaries, to
give his child fond for the Mind. He wished he
could see this spirit restored in England ; but that
could not be tinder-the present system of Poor
Laws. It existed in Scotland, but extend the
Poor Laws to +hal country, and it would exist
there no longer. In Scotland, the poor people
made their Children work in the summer to earn
15 or 20a. with in which the winter they paid their
schooling. And in polishes 15 or 20 miles long,
and 6 or 8 broad, where there was but one School-
master in the parish, where the Poor had not
money,- each family would take the Schoolmaster
tnrn bed turn about for 10 or 12 days and feed
him ; he in return, teaching their children to read.
Such was the picture of this part of the kingdom,
ie which the Clergy so loudly called on the Legis-
lature to do something for the education of the
poor. The Clergy of that country, in which there
was a certain Canal, the Caledonian Canal, and
with half the money expended on that Canal, he
would educate England and Scotlantl, together
wi h the principality of ‘Vales, over and over
again. He had taken a long time to frame his
Bill, which would be found to agree with the Do-
cuments on the table. His plan was divisible into
four branches. The first related to the founda-
tion of the schools ; the second to the appoint-
ment and the removal of the masters ; the third
to the admission of scholars ; and the fourth had
for its abject the improvement of the old educa-
tion endowments. With reference to the first
branch, he proposed to give the initiative in the
appointment of a School Master to four different
classes. The first was the Grand Jury at the Eat-.
ter Sessions, fishing or presenting Bill that t-he_
district was deficient in a school ; the second was
the Clergyman of the parish ; the. third was
two Justices of the Peace ; and the, fourth class-
would be formed by 5 householders in the district.
Each of these four classes would have the power
of preferring a complaint to the Quarter Sessions
held at Easier, which complaint could be tried at
the succeeding grarter Session,. Two parishes
might also write avid prefer a joint cronplaint.—
At the time when the complaint was preferred ars
estimate was to be made of the yearly expence of
the School, which was not less than 201. nor more
than 301. a•year. But the inhabitants of the
district would have the power of assessing them-
selves if they chose to increase the salary of the
schoolmaster, to the amount of 201, and'uot more.
An order from the Justices would be a warrant
to the Treasurer of the county, for the advance of
money to build the School. No country Gentle-
man could complain of the payment of a few
shilliugs to add to the salary of the schoolmaster ;
and the expence of building the School ought to
devolve upon the commercial and matiutactitring
class, who, unless they were also landed proprie-
tors, knew nothing of the Poor-rates but by name.
The money so advanced was to be replaced from
the Consolidated Fund, it the sum did not exceed
2001. The schoolmaster might be a married man,
and would have a garden, but would be ailoveed to
take no boarders, though he might eke out his'
salary by land-surveying and Conveyancing. No
Parish-officer was to be employed in building the
school, that there might be no riik of its being
made a job. Schools %vele not founded on
count of the salary, but the outfit. The next
branch of the subject referred to the appointmeot
and the removal of the schoolmaster. The first
qualification would be that he should have a cer-
tificate from-the Clergyman of time district whete
he had last resided, and three householdets. The
second was, that his age should not be less titan
24, nor more than 40 years. Lie most be of the
Established Church, and must have taken the Sa-
crament a month befOre his appointment. The
+-Parish Clerk was to be eligible to the office of
Schoolmaster, and that circumstance might help
to restore his character to part of its former re-
spectability, as he had at one time been regarded
as a kind of Assistant to the Clergyman. The
next question related to the election of a School-
master. For that purpose a meeting of the inha-
bitants, who paid the salary, was to tie held by no-
lice, a month before the election. He was of
opinion that the system of education should be
connected as closely as possible with the Church
of England, as established by law ; though, at
a former period, be had not been disposed to
go so far. The Chute!) was in law the teacher of
the people generally; and the Parson might be
termed a Clerical Schoolmaster, and. the School-
master-a Lay Parson. He was bound to state, that
the Clergy had come forward most zealously toleod
their aid on time present occasion. As to the mode
by which the Schoolmaster was to be elected,
Rae Parsuu of time place might, on examivation,

reject
him if he found he was incompetent. in the
next place, a visitation was to take place of the
Ordinary, the Archdeacon, the Dean, or the Chan-
cellor of the diocese; with the power of appeal
to the Metropolitan. As to the terms of admis-
sion, the children of those who received parish
relief were to pay nut more than 2d. or, at the
utmost, 4d. per week ; and no distinction was to
he made betwixt those children and theothers.—
At the saute time Parish Officers and their Asses-
sors might direct some children to be taught
gratis. The hours of teaching were to be fixed by
the Parson ; no other religious books were to be
taught but the Bible, and no other forms but tke
Lord's Player, or some passages from Scripture.
While nothing but the Bible was taught; no Dis-
senter could have any objection to send his children
to the schools. The children were to attend Church
once each bunday, and the Dissenters might, if
they chose, take their children to their repec-
tire pieces of worship. A school-meeting was to
be held each Sunday evening s reading, writing,
and arithmetic were to be taught in all the
schools. The last point referred to the mode of
improving the means of education. All the üb-
servatiot's he had made, applied to all Charities,
of whatever nature. His first object was to pro.
videfor a deficiency, either partial or general, of
Trustees ; the second was to enable Trustees to
improve the administrations and the disposal of
the funds ; the third, to make provision for the
failure of the object of the trust, and the last was
to provide checks for the whole arrangement.
He was at the sante time bound in candour to
state, that he thmight more favourably of trustees
than he had formerly done. On the first head he
ptoposed that trustees should he allowed to fill up
their number. 2dly. An appeal was ao lie to the
Commissioners of the charity, and the name of the
founder, together with the date of the foundation,
were to be fixed in a conspicuous place. If there
were no trustees, then the heir at law was to fill
up the vacancy ; and in the event of there being
no heir at law, then the visiter. The Trustees
were also to be enabled to sell and buy, and no
stamp to be requisite. No Trustee was to have
any beneficial interest in the trust ; an opinion
which no man who knew any thing of the law of the
country could for a moment entertain. It had been
truly said by the late Lord Kenyon, that in must
of the Grammar Schools nothing was done but to
receive the salary ; to which he would add, and
to receive boarders. In cases where the salary was
only 101. a-year ; the expeuces for taxes and re-
pairs came to 4001. The Master, in these cases,
would teach nothing but Latin and Greek. But
the Founder had assumed that the lower branches
of learning were to be taught by the Ostiarins or
Ushers. By the words of the foundation, parish
paupers and the children of those who lived in Alins.
houses, were to be taught at those schools. Those
were to be taught Latin that they might understand
the service of the church, which was performed in
that language. Out of 200 of those Institutions
there were eight in the County of Cumberland, at
the average of SU boys for each ; and the whole
expence for the education of each boy amounted
to -11 s. -B'l. annually. In lb other of those
schools the average was only six fur each ; and
in one hundred others only two thousand
received education, though at the Cumberland
ratio, the numbets should have been 35,000.
He objected:altogethei to the . establishment of
hospital.' for children, as it did them no good,
and much harm to the rest of the community.
Nothing, itt fact, multiplied paupers so much as
hospitals for children. In the case of a total
failure of the object of the dimity, the funds
ought to be applied to some other charitable pur-
poses. The revenue of the Tunbridge School,
where in fact, there was no school, amounted to
40001. annually, while 5001. was amply .adequate
tor every purpose for which the School.bad been
endowed. But under the present system no up-
.plication could be made but by Act of Parliament.
According to the ratio of the Schools in the coun-
ty of Devon, the total outfit would be 850,0001.
But according to the ratio of Cumberland, the
expence would only be 400,0001. giving an aver-
age of halt a million ; and the mutual expence
would at an average amount to 100,0001. The
Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving for leave
to bring iu a Bill for the better Education of the
Poor in England and Wales.
Lord CASTLEREAGH complimented the Honour-
role Gentleman on his clear and luminous state-
ment. lie had no objection to the introduction
of the Bill, though he thought it the best course
that it should be printed, and lie over fur consi-
deration next Session. At the present time, he
was incapable of forming an opinion as to its
enactments, and should reserve himself to ano-
ther stage.

Mr. BROUGHAM bad no wish to prrcipilate the
measure and should be guided by the sense of the
House, whether he should push lorward the mea-
sure this Session or wait till the next.

Mr. IVILBERFORCE bore testimony to the merits
of his Hon. Friend, in the attention and research
he had displayed.
Mr. V. FITZGERALD had not forgotten the
pledge he gave the House on the subject of edu-
cation in Ireland; and his resolution was the
more confirmed by what had falken from the Hon.
Gentleman, though some of the views he had
taken were inapplicable to Ireland.
Sir J. NEWPORT complained that accurate re-
turns had nut been made, as to the population of
Ireland. A great difficulty, on the subject of
Educatios in that Country, necessarily arose from
the great bulk of the population being of a diffe-
rent religion trout that of the State.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH stated, as a fact from his
own personal knowledge, that the knowledge of
writing had been of the utmost advantage to many
individuals. While in India, be had been the
means of transmitting many letters from soldiers
and sailors to this country, and inclosing, for the
most part, some little money to their friends,—
By that means the domestic chanties had been
kept alive, and regard for opinion had beets pre-
served, and they still retained a fond recollection
of that country which they had (pitted, and to
which they hoped to ;volts. Leave was then given
to bring in the Bill.