The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-11 00:00:00

GROUP K.

TEL' NOZWICH AND DRANDON (MSS AND
ATTLEDOROUGH BRANCH) RAILWAY.

The Committee met to-day at the usual hour, Lord Sandon in
the chair, when the consideration of this line of railway was
resumed.

Several tables and maps, setting forth the distances, extent of po.
pulation in the district, and the receipts and expenses of the line,
were put in, after which the room was cleared.
On our re-admission
The CHAIRMAN requested that the evidence illustrative of the
local traffic should be continued.

Mr. Aldrick, of Diss, said he was a grocer in that town. The
hne, in his opinion, was very much wanted in the district. There
*Nag no doubt but that it would give a great impetus to the trade
of the district. It was necessary, at the present time, to forward
manufactured goods to Norwich, from whence they were forwarded
to their destination.

Mr. Till, Secretary to the proposed line, was examined at some
length as to the tables which had been put in.
Mr. Gedney was next called. He superintended the taking of
the traffic, and could vouch for the correctness of the tables put in
as far as that department was concerned.

Several other witnesses were examined, when the room was
cleared.

On our return, the CHAIRMAN said that the Committee did not
consider that a case had been made out for the Dias and Attie-
borough line. Their decision therefore was, that the preamble was
not proved.

The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow at I'2 o'clock.

GROUP KR.

LIVERPOOL AND BURY MINE, AND LI-
VERP,, OX. AND MANCHESTMR. EXTITIV
SION%

William M. Coleman, clerk on the Liverpool and Manchester
Railway, was examined to show that the warehouse accommoda-
tion, cheapness of carriage, and conveyance of passengers, was in
every respect suitable and proper. The witness went into details
of a whoiiy uninteresting nature.
The witness was cross-examined at considerable length by Mr.
WILKINS, and admitted that sometimes delay took place in the
vonveyance of goods along the Liverpool and Manchester line.
Goods from Yorkshire went by Fleetwood. The charge for conveying
heavy goods was 3d_ per ton, including porterage and warehousing.
For oil, tallow, eec., the charge was 31-d. per ton.
Re-examined—The Liverpool cattle-market was about half-a-
mile from the terminus. Did not make any distinction between
the different carriers. Had not heard that Messrs. Pickford, the
Carriers, had been driven off the line by increasing the charges.
To the COMMITTEE-Did not know the precise situation of Fleet_
wood.

Messrs. Garksin and Maine were examined as to the price of
carriage. The latter, who was bookeeper on the Manchester and
Liverpool Railway, stated that the cost of carriage, exclusive of
toll, power, and waggons was 2s. Bd. per ton on 23,000 tons, which
were carried in 1844 by the Manchester and Liverpool Railway.
The gross receipt for the carriage of coal, in 1844, was nearly
8,0001.

Mr. Marsden, manager of the Old River Navigation at Manches-
ter—The total cost of carriage by the proposed scheme from Liver-
pool to Rochdale would se—sugar and grain 14s. 2d. per ton, in.
eluding carriers' expenses and cartage ; cotton, 14s. 2-id. ; timber,
14s. 1 d. ; manufactured goods and general merchandise, 15s. sd.
The present rate of carriage from Liverpool to Rochdale for sugar
and grain was 12.1. 6d. per ton ; cotton, 11s. 6d. ; general mer-
chandise the same. The proposed charges between Liverpool and
Bury would amount to—grain I Is. 51d. ; cotton, I Is. 6d. ;
timber, 1 ls. ; manufactured goods, 12s. 9id. The pre-
sent rates were—by water, les. ; by railway, I Is. Id. Between
Liverpool and Bolton the proposed charges were—for sugar,
grain, cotton, and timber, 10s. 4d. ; manufactured goods, I Is. Hid.
The present rate of carriage was for grain, cotton, and merchan-
dise, 10s. by water; by railway I Is. 6d. ; timber was carried at
present by water or railway, at 9s. ail. per ton. The cost of car-
riage by the proposed scheme betwee.l Liverpool and Wigan
would be for grain, 7s. 6d. per ton; for manufactured good,
Bs. 3d. The present rates of carriage to and from these towns
were 6s. 3d. per ton. The quantity of goods forwarded by the
Duke of Bridgcwater's Canal and the old quay navigation, from
Bolton to Bury last year, was 14,000 tons; two-thirds of these
wore sent to Bury. No goods sent from Liverpool to Manches-
ter passed through Wigan on the Bridgewater Canal.

Mr. Liddell, an engineer, did not think the proposed Liverpool
and Bury line a good one. It might be made shorter and with
better curves, and so as to avoid touching the demesnes of private
gentlemen, Inch Hall, and other places. There was very heavy
tunnelling and very heavy earth-works. By adopting convex
gradients a saving of 100,0001. might have been effected. The
.height of the Liverpool terminus, 40 feet, he thought highly ob-
jectionable, He did not think the line well chosen in passing
Wigan ; the station there was in a very objectionable position close
to the gates of Westwood and on an inclined plane of 1 in 100. At
Haig there was a gradient of 1 in 60, where it crossed a highway,
and was, he thought, objectionable and dangerous, inasmuch
as it would be almost impossible to stop descending trains. A
better line might have been made between Bolton and Liverpool--
viz., from Tostock to Newton. The gradients on this line would
be from linSOto 1 in 90. The distance from Bolton to Liver.
pool by this line would be 28 miles and 11 chains. This line
would run through the best part of the coal-field at Wigan, passing
through Ilindley-green, near West Horton. It would be very
easy by this line to shorten the distance between Wigan arid Liver-
pool a mile-and-a-ball.

Cross_examined by Mr. WILKINS—The line he projected crossed
eight roads in the space of nine miles, from Rainford to Ruffurd.
Thought the best line would have been to start from the North
Union, and join it again. Said so irrespective of considering the
disposition of the managers of the North Union Railway to accom-
modate another line.
At the conclusion of this witness's testimony
Mr. BRANDT announced that the case of the Liverpool and Man-
cheater line had closed, with the exception of the list of assents
and dissents.
Mr. W ILKINS announced that Lords Derby and Wilton, who
were dissenting I;arties from the Liverpool and Bury line, had with-
drawn their opposition.
Mr. SMYTIIR‘ no behalf of the North Union Railway, and several
landowners objected to the Haig branch, which was merely formed
to accommodate the Earl of Balcarras, at the expense of the land-
owners on the line, and without any advantage to the public. The
North Union had already made a branch into Lord Balcarras's coal
field to accommodate his Lordship, called the New Spring branch,
2i miles in length. The projected branch would greatly injurethe
North Union Railway by crossing it, would confer no public advan-
tage, and would not, he hoped, be countenanced by the Committee.
Mr. klavuedcrox, on behalf of certain landed proprietors, op-
posed the Liverpool and Bury line. He now represented two
gentlemen named Gray, who were the proprietors of extensive and
invaluable works, and which would be materially interfered with
by the main line of the projected railway. He entirely agreed with
Sergeant Beilasis, and thought it would superinduce a profitless and
destructive competition. Private rights were so largely interfered
with by the projected line, that nothing but s
gurecaht
was
pressing
public public necessity could justify
itsl formation.
L earned Counsel went on to
e
case in the present instance,
detail the nature of the evidence which he would bring before it on
behalf of the Messrs. Gray.
- - • ' ' • -

Mr. Thomas Lee, by•a wooden model, showed that the projected
line would materially interfere, if nut altogether destroy, the works
of Messrs. Gray, a cotten-factory, the pr is of which were esti-
mated at 7,0001. last year
Mr. WILLIAMS said he was quite willing to give compensation
for any injury which might be done to the works of the Messrs.
'Gray.
"

Mr. Thompson, the engineer of the Liverpool and Bury line
said he thought it would be possible to deviate about 100 yards
from the projected line.
The CHAIRMAN said he had no doubt but an amicable arrangement
mi,4ht be effected.

Other witnesses were examined to prove that the injury sustained
,by the Messrs. Gray by the projected line would be of a serious
mature