The Sun.
London, England, 1818-03-14 00:00:00

OFFICES IN REVERSION, &c.

The Earl GRosveszoß adverted to the Returns
upon the Table respecting Offices granted in Re-
version in England, and observed that those re-
specting Ireland and Scotland had .not- been pre-
sented. He therefore wished to have an order
made for their immediate production.. It.appear-
ed, that since 1806, no Office had been granted
in Reversion ; with the exception of those in the
gift of the Judges, there had been only one grant
in Reversion, and of which he had been informed
by the Noble Lord o. the Woolsack, and to this
certainly he did net Wal) in the slightest degree
to object ; be•ailuded.to tee grant of Baeshot Park
to her Royal Highness the Duchess of Gloucester,
in the event of ,;,er surviving her Royal Consort.
He was, hoevever, of opinion, that thotigh -it
might mot be the intention of Government to grant
any OfficeS in; lieyersion, and
.though ,reasons
might, exist for not lestrietieg the,grants in re-
version of those offices snide were in the gift or
the Judges, still that it ,would,be.advisahle to pass
a law to prevent for the future, any such grants.
He wiseed, therefore, to ask, whet her thei e
wouli be any objecion on the part, of the 1.1 b.!
nisters to a Bill for preventing" the grant 4.814
Offices in Reversion, except those in the gift of
the Judges ?
The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, that all the
Offices which had been laretofore al times granted
in Reversion, such as rlre Telltrships of the Ex-
chequer, the Chief Justiceships in Eyre, &c. were
now. either abolished or regulated by Act of Par-
liament, so that. they could not be granted in
Reversion. Tile only remaining Office about
which there could be any political contest, was
that of Clerk of the Parliam, tits, and this it was
intended, like the others, to subject to regula-
tions, so as to preclude also any grant of it ;:in
Reversion. .Under these circumstances, he could
not see any necessity whatever for such a Bill as
chat mentioned by the Noble Earl, which could
be of no use whatever with regard to Offices, but
which might be injurious in other respects. The
grant, for instance, to her Royal Highness the
Duchess of Gloucester, of Bagshot Park, in the
event of her surviving his Royal Highness the
Dohe of Gloucester, cotild not, he was convinced,
he objected to by any one, and yet, by such a Bill
as that suggested by the Noble Earl, the power
of the Crown might with respect to this have been
impeded in its operation. • In the case also of
pensions -granted to the daughters of Officers,
either civil or military, and which were trifling in
amount..not exceeding 1001. or 2001. per annum,
it was fftquently the case that an increased pen-
sion was granted to the survivot or survivors, and
it would be productive also frequently of the most
unpleasant consequences, if the power of the
Cru sn was in this respect 'cirtuniscribed. The
therefore, suggested by the Noble Earl, could
not possibly be of any use, whilst it-might be pro-
ductive of unpleasant consequences.
The Earl of .(inosvereoß allowed that what had
been stated by the Noble Earl deserved consi-
deration, but still he thought that as offices for-
merly efficient had in the progress of time become
sin, cures tend objects of grants in reversion, so i
mig;it happen with other offices, which could no
now be so granted. He should not, however, a

present press any measure, but regulate his con-
duct according to circumstances J-iis Lordship
then moved, that toe returns from Scotland and
Ireland be laid before the HottsefotthWith, which
was ordered.

Che M4upis of LANSDOWNE, with reference to
the tnew,ure of last Session for the regulation of
offices, observed that there were other offices
which still remained to be regulated, pi:rico_
.
larlv in Ireland, and• wished to know whether

it was intended to bring i;i any Bill for tie pur
pose of regulating the offices to which he h4tl
luded ?

The Earl LivEuponi, said, that the subject
alluded to by the Noble Marquis was ender inves-
tigation, and he would let him know when the
result was ascertained. The offices in England
had already been regulated.

MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS.
On the question for the third reading of the
Mutiny Bill,
Earl GROSVENOR, in pursuance of his notice,
rose to move an amendment thereto. It was his
intention, he said, to move the introduction of an
amendment in t!►e preamble of the Bill, for the
purpose of reducing the number of the forces pro-
posed as the Military Establishment for the year.
He must, in the strongest manner, elite, his.
solemn protest against such an enormous Milita►y
Establishment at the present moment—a time of
proloothl peace throughout all Europe, and when
the finances of the country were so little able to
bear such an expence. His Lordship then pro-
ceeded at some length to enter into a detailed
view of the subject, in which be generally im-
pugned the ,xtent of the Establishment as pro-
posed, by the Bill as unnecessary, extravagant, or
unconstitutional—the last in the view of keeping
on foot such a large standing army at a period of
-profound peace. The Pesce Establishment, as
proposed, after long and elaborate consideration,
he thought would be a preferable model ; and he
glanced at the present military establishment of
the United States of America, which did not ex-
,

ceed 8000 regular troops. With respect to Ire-
land, if the important national qUestion of the
Catholic Claims had been properly decided, and
wise regulations respecting the distilleries adopt-
ed, he thought a much luss force than that now.

propcsed for that couutry would do.
,The home

establishments he thought excessive, and upon
rthe whole, when he felt so satisfied as to the loyal
and tranquil dispositions of the great body of the
people, be could not regard the keeping up such
an enormous•force but as a species of slander noon
his countrymen. He. was confident of their at-
tachment to the Constitution of the Country. He
must protest agsiust:the idea:, that because people
were inimical to the Ministers ihey %vete there'7
fore, as a corollary,, to be deemed inimical to the
Coostitution.. None could forget that the trea-
son of last year was gent ,Ily put down by a ser-
;cant and eighteen dragoons. If he entertained
no other objection to, the maintaining such a au7
merous body of military troups.upon the Conti
nent (which a Noble _Earl, out a former night',
had asserted did not cost the, Country a shilling),
still that . which he entertained upon politico
or constitutional grounds was enough to decide.
him ,against the measure. He hiked not con-
tact with , the military despotic Powers of 111:!
Continent, as such tended to infuse uticonqitu-
tional principles Dad bad habits into the soldiery,
at least for the meridian of this country. The
Noble Earl concluded by moving, as nu amend-,1
mew, that instead of 113,640, 100,000. men
should. be inserted in the Bill.

Earl BATHURST,. in'•an able and spirited dis-
cussion of some length, succesfftilly combated
the leading positions of the Noble Earl. 'Abe
prtsent circumstances of the country bore no
comparison with those irr which it stood in 1S06;
zhe relereuce, he thought, was by means ap-
plicable. With respect to its extensh'e Colonies,
the country was placed in a situation far different

from that of any former period ; .and its the refe-
rence to the establishment of. the United States,
the
seonsideratinn ofits numerous militia was not
included. ,r2lie Noble Earl's idea, upon which he
dwelt most forcibly, seemed to rest. upon a sup-
position, that the force. so kept up had nothing to
do but to enslave the people ! Let their Loft:snips
for a moment consider the distribution of the
force. In North Britain, there .was the nume-
rous and overwhelming force of 2,soo.mencept
up. If the Scots were capable of being enslaved,
did the Noble Earl think that 2,500 men could
effect the work ? A numerous portion of the
troops in England were stationed along the coasts,
in order to check the contraband trade ; thereby
contributing to the important object of a due col-
lection of the revenue. With respect to any.idea
of keeping down, or acting unconstitutionally
against the people of England, in the great body
of the country, what number of troops did their
Lordships think were applicable ? Why, with the
exception of the London service, and a district of
25 miles round it, there were the immense num-
ber of 4000 men ! The service of the dock-yards
occupied a comparatively _ considerable number;
and with respect to the service of the metropolis,
the necessary number for that duty was usually
calculated -on a principle that the number of
troops engaged for thai purpose should be equi-
valent to the proportion of three nights in bed for
one on duty; but, in the present instance, the
number of men was so restricted as not to allow
them more than two nights in bed for. one ,on
duty. A fair and candid view of the whole amount
and distribution would, he hoped, establish..the
pla-i-intelligible proposition in the conviction of
their Lordships, that a greater force was ❑ot kept
np than the circumstances of the, empire rendered
necessary.

Earl 6aosvENoa.spoke at some length in ex-
planation. After which the question was put,
and the amendment was negatived 'without a di-
vision.—Adjourned till Monday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
A Bill tor making roads to Waterloo-bridge was read a first
time and second time.
A,Petition was received from Montrose, praying exemption
fur that burgh, as to the Scots Lunatics' Bill,
LEATHER TRADE.
Petitions were received front the Tanners, &c. Of Bishops.
castle and other places. • •

HABEAS CORPUS.
Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a petition from King's
Lynn, in Norfoik, against. indemnity fur Ministers.
• TITHES.
A Petition was received froth the University of Oxford, on
the subject' of the Tithes' Bill.

POOR .
Mr. STURGES BOURNE mLAWSoveitthe 2d reading of the
Poor Laws Parish Justices' Bill.
Alderman WOOD made some remarks. He observed, that
in the city it had been found necessary by the Magistrates to
send 100 in a day to Bridewell;most of whom were in a state
of distress. Magistrates were compelled to commit for seven
days. There was a large penalty on passmasters, yet a great
proportion of the persons passed usually escaped. He should
wish, instead of the present mode, that a fine of 20s. or 40s.
should he imposed on passmasters, and that the MagiStrates
should have•power of exacting it summarily
Mr. STURGES BOURNE thought that there were provi-
sions in the Bill which would meet the Hon. Member's views.
The Bill went through the Committee; and the Report was
received, and ordered to be considered on the Bth of April.
Mr. STURGES BOURNE then brought tip the Poor Laws'
Amendment Bill, which was read a first and second time,
committed, and the Report ordered fur the Bth of April.
A Petition was received fronts the Grand Junction Water
Works' CoMpany.

LEATHER.
Lord ALTHORP brought up a Bill for repealing the ad-
ditional Ditties on Leather.
Mr. LUSHINGTON said there was no intention to oppose
the first reading, The Bill was read a first time, and
ordered to be read a second tiite on the Gth of April.

REFORM.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT presented a petition from
Holbeach, praying for a radical reform, and universal suf-
frage, by ballot.—Ordered to lie on the table, and to be
printed.

Mr. W. SMITH presented a Petition from King's Lynn,
praying against indemnity to Ministers. The petition was
respectful to the House, but he did not know whether it was
respectful to Ministers.