The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-12 00:00:00

LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, JULY 12, 1842.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

time of the general election in 1812, when the party with
which he (Lord B.) acted gained a great victory upon a ques-
HO USE OF LORDS, July 11. tion of economy. Although the dissolution took place on that
Their Lordships met at Five o'Clock. question, he believed that it did not turn a single vote, nor was
WORKING IN MINES. the great commercial question mooted throughout the election,
The Earl of LIVERPOOL presented a petition from except in the places for which he and Mr. Canning were candi-
iron masters and coal owners, against certain clauses in dates. lie assuredn their Lordships that he was not sae who would
e
set the passions a d. h interests of themanufacturers against t , the Bill before Parliament respecting employment in
farmers. The farmers and the peasants had ever been regarded
mines and collieries,
as the pride and the strength of this country.—( Hear, hear. )
The Earl of POWIS presented a petition to the same He was not one who despised their gains or their occupations,
effect, signed not only by owners of mines but by persons on the contrary, he thought with the historian, " Pius qutestus,
employed in them. et minime invidiosus—et minime male cogitentes, qui in eo
Lord DARTMOUTH presented several petitions versantur." But there was another position of the people which
to the same effect from persons employed in mines in the was no less and no more entitled to consideration and respect—
West Riding of Yorkshire. The Noble Lord also pre- a body of men whose exertions contributed, to an extent worthy
sented several petitions against the New Door Law-bill. of admiration, to raise that power to greatness and the wealth
Lord CAMPBELL presented petitions from the neigh-
h- of this country. He spoke of the master manufacturers. He
bourhood of Huddersfield, in favotu of the Bill for r
had known them in all the changes of their fortunes, and he
gulating employment in mines. •
knew amongst them very many men who would do honour to
any station. He had unhappily known them in all the changes
COLLIERIES AND MINES BILL. and vicissitudes of their fortunes, and he could assure the
The Duke of BUCCLEUCH reported from the House that he had known them in times of distress
Select Committee upon the Employment in Mines Bill, to make the greatest sacrifices in order to avoid the
that it was the opinion of the Committee that the Bill hardship of turning their workmen out of employment•
should be proceeded with.—(Hear, hear.) It was said that a change in the harvest would relieve the dis-
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered tress. He heartily wished that he could say that the distress
to be committed to-morrow. was only caused by bad harvests. If they looked back to some
The Bishop of NORWICH presented a petition in years up to 1829, 1830, and 1831, they would find that the
favour of the Bill. price was 655. &l. being more rather than less than the present
DRAINAGE (IRELAND) BILL. year. He did not mean to say, God forbid, that a good her-
On the motion of Lord FITZGERALD, this Bill was
vest was immaterial, or that a bad harvest greatly exacerbated
the evils of the country. There were causes stated, both in
read a second time, with the understanding that the dis- and out of Parliament, to which he aught to allude, as they
cussion should be taken on Friday, in going into Cons- were highly important. It was said that machinery was one of
mittee. the great causes of the distress. He did not think there ever
The Dublin University Right of Voting Bill was read was, of the many delusions into which men were occasionally
a second time. led, a greater than this. Machinery never could produce that
SUDBURY WITNESSES INDEMNITY BILL. effect, unless fora moment—for a moment in point of time, and
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE introduced a Bill in the smallest possible limit of space ; even if he admitted that,
which he did not think he was called upon to do, even for any
to indemnify the witnesses to be examined before the
Committee on the Sudbury Disfranchisement Bill, which time, however small—within any space, however contracted—such
was read a first time. He gave notice that, to-morrow,
mischief could not be produced by machinery. The slowness
he would move that the Standing Orders be suspended well known to every one who had the least experience on the
respecting this Bill, and that it be then read a second time. subject. Every new invention, however common, required time
Lord BROUGHAM thought it was impossible their to introduce it. No one disputed this proposition, which he
Lordships could pass a Bill of disfranchisement without did not hesitate to affirm was a general one. The labourers,
taking evidence for themselves, in point of fact, suffered nothing. Let them consider the im-
MINES AND COLLIERIES BILL. mediate consequences of machinery. Did it increase capital,
The Duke of BUCCLEUCH presented numerous pc- and did not the increase in capital increase the want of
titions on the subject of Lord Ashley's (the mining em- labour? Did not the increase in machinery increase
ployment) Bill, from Yorkshire and Mid-Lothian. Some labour in the ancillaryh. process, . contieete7d
Hewith the
.t re of
.mac machinery
.for a new Invention.ought_
of the petitioners disapproved of parts of the Bill, but manufacture
almost to apologise for stating this proposition. Nor should
the majority were in favour of it altogether.
he have done so but for the arguments used by persons high in
Lord WHARNCLIFFE presented petitions to the office, and used by persons out of doors. He might give as a
same effect from places in Yorkshire, Scotland and Wales. further illustration of the slow degrees with which machinery
THE DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY. can be introduced, and could displace labour, what had occurred
Lord WHARNCLIFFE presented a petition, which in the case of that most remarkable of all machineries—he
was agreed to at a public meeting of the inhabitants of meant the cotton machinery. The first cotton machinery in-
Leeds, held in the Town-hall on the 29th of June last, the vented was a cording-machine invented by a workman
Mayor in the chair, complaining of the distress of the of the name of Hargreave, so long ago as the year 1760.
country, and praying for inquiry.—(Loud cries of Hear, There was a rising of the working men against the employment
hear, from Lord Stanhope.) of that machinery. Afterwards came, in the years 1769 and
RAIL WAYS BILL. 1770, the further improvements of Arkivright ; and scarcely
On the motion of the Earl of LIVERPOOL the Rail- ten years had elapsed before an increase to the amount of 50 per
ways Bill passed through Committee. cent. had taken place in the cotton trade. During the next
mittee. ten years, from 1780 to 1790, the increase was no less than five-
RATING OF STOCK IN TRADE BILL. fold. The introduction of the newly-invented machinery was
This Bill also passed through Committee without very gradual at first. Between the years 1800 and 1840 it
amendment or discussion, had increased between eighty and one hundred fold ; and it
CHANCERY COURT. employed seventeen times more hands in the year 1800 than
The LORD CHANCELLOR laid upon the table a when the manufacture had commenced. That increase
Bill for abolishing certain offices in the Court of Chars- might be multiplied six-fold since the beginning of the
eery ' the Bill related to the Six Clerks, and the sworn present century ; so that there were one hundred hands
Clerks. It was then read a first time.
more employed now than had been employed previous to the
DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY. M
rose and said, that the motion
invention of Arkvrright ; and, without that invention, the
Lord BROUGHA
amount of goods manufactured would have employed 35,000,000
of people—a number which, of course, could never have beer,
which he was then about to submit to their found. Let them see how the distress now told, and whether
Lordships, originated, as they were aware, in it could at all be connected with machinery. He would take
a petition which had been pesented some ten but a few simple illustrations. It would at once be admitted
days ago, signed by the deputies, or at least by the that in the woollen trade much less machinery was employed
chairman of the deputies, sent from the manufacturing , than in the co ton trade. Nevertheless, the town of Leeds,
districts of the north of England. In the prayer of the centre of the woollen trade, was at this moment much worse
that petition the men of the midland districts heartily off than the great capitals of the cotton manufacture. He found
that the uninhabited houses in Leeds had increased 55 per
joined. They had come to him, from a recollection
of his old connexion both with the one and the cent., that the rents hadei been
eidoubled, that. was.
hto
relief
eregcaeiinvingofpa2rois
()ot other of those districts—with the midland districts 04r0,00 relief f out f
roomf 50 people, were
averearg
ever since the year 1808, and still more in-
tiniately since the distresses of 1809 ; and in of those 40,000 was ibtttieteosp6.de: a week. In the town of Bolton
where the cotton trade was carried on, although there had
the northern districts, from his having had the hi,- been a decline of business. the same distresedid not prevail a,
noun of representing them' for a short period in the other at Leeds, and the rates, which afforded a pretty accurate test of
House of Parliament. He had yielded to their request the condition of the people, had only increased from 12,000/. to
with great reluctance. He should then proceed to per- 16,000/. ; whereas they had doubled in Leeds. Then if they
form the promise which he had so reluctantly made, with looked to the hosiery trade they would find that in Hinckley
a degree of unwillingness which one ought not per- half the frames were idle, and 70 penrrnto.nof
tthhierisivorkofmen
theof
haps to feel in discharging an important duty. But the
ito.wn were unemployed, a
nothing could be more embarrassing and more vexatious Population ataioan
in wtehree receivingotterradere, lief. Ine- the hosiery
machinery could hardly than to feel that he must disappoint those hopes of re- be said to enter at al)1. fy
ardly any improvements had been
dress and relief which they expected, if not at his hands, made in either, in the memory of living man. In the Potte-
at least through his endeavours, and nothing could be ries, the distress was not so great as in other districts, but it
more painful than to have to state to their Lordships a was still greater than that which prevailed in the cotton dis-
ease so lamentable as theirs. They were men largely tricts. The rates in Nottingham had risen in the proportion of
connected with the trade of the country, deeply inter- three to five, between the year 1841 and the year 1842; and
ested in almost all the branches of its manufac- the number receiving relief had nearly doubled, being 8,000,
tures ; .some of them were ministers of religion, instead of 4,400. In the Potteries, the calculation was that
who felt for the distresses Of the flocks committed the average employment was but th:ee days in the week.
Then, in the iron trade,
smallerin willsichiinnthwtieieolaevmoetrothouanninttoratfodnme,taiilicehisirtnareetrsy:
to their care, as did the other petitioners for the indivi-
duals who worked under them, and of whom they felt it Prevailed their duty to be the guardians. It must be as painful to iiaeniylceer:lleatswoeasda.o meTuachc)rehmlnuuumsbexerteouttapnersons in the workhousep was
ties Lordships to hear the statement which those par- doubled, and the persons who received out-door relief were
ties expected him to make, as it was for him to make it. trebled. In Sheffield, the worst case of the whole, the rates
He should therefore take them as swiftly as he could over had risen, between 1839 and 1842, in the frightful proportion
the ground; and he might the more easily do that and of eight to one, being an increase from 5411. to 4,2531. Thus
dispense with the necessity of entering at length into their Lordships would see from fact, what they might expect
those afflicting details, as unhappily it was no i from reason, that there was no connexion between machinery and
matter of controversy whether such distress existed or ! the present distress. On the contrary, were it not for machinery,
not ; for all who knew the state of the country, and none , the traders would not only have been reduced to a state of
misery,av have
comparednamweithhutwehvicehn eavenv
atthempereesertnitnnweofuldthrnoet
he believed more than his Noble Friend opposite, were I
prepared at once to allow that this distress was wholly ; deserveda ti e
trades would not have been called intoge exigence.—()p Hear.‘) without a parallel. He, like those petitioners, or at least . found the distress was attributed to the currency. Bch if he
the oldest among them, remembered the distress found it could not be attributed to the seasons, the machinery,
of 1408, and of 1812, and afterwards of 1816 and ! or anything in the internal state of the country, he held it. to
1817 ; but he protested that when he cast back his ; be perfectly wild to ascribe it to the currency—( Hear, hear)—
. eyes, and compared those periods with the pre- inasmuch as the change in the currency had taken place twenty-
' sent ; and when he refreshed his recollection with ' three years ago, during a portion of which time the country
the result of the inquiry then made, and corn- enjoyed great prosperity. It was as impossible—he might say
pared it with what it had been his most painful it was snore impossible—to ascribe the distress of the country
ditty to learn, within the last three or tour weeks,
, to the change of currency than to the course of the seasons.
of the present state of things, he might almost
(" Hear, hear," from Lord Stanhope.) During the last ten
without exaggeration say, that those times presented a ; rieaadrsa, five had been such as that no class of the community
to complain. If none of those causes could b
comparatively prosperous state of things. He wouldforei n
rightsingled out, they ought then to look to their keep the promise he had given of passing over the ground trade, in order to obtain an explanation.—( Hear, hew!)
as quickly as he could, and he would begin at once to It ought to be recollected, that the manufaiitures to which he
state the case. In the west of England for years past, alluded were not confined to this country. They had compe-
he might say for ten .or twelve years past, there titors elsewhere during the whole time of the increase of their
had been a gradual change—gradual at first, own manufactures. He would take an instance from the cotton
as always happened in such cases, but proceeding ' trade. While it was increasing in this country it was also on
afterwards with an accelerated pace to the almost ex- the increase in France.h Between 1787 arid 1815 it had in-
tinction of this branch of their manufactures—looms . c!easeddinsetvheen
Forreneeit
cotton
t fold,
tradeand borethe numbera
still—houses untenanted—rents falling from one-third to !"
tinonyeto the number of those employed here,considerable
onp:ogr-
one-half, sometimes even more—cottages to the number of the number. There were 1,500,000 persons beingdepende-nt on of three out of four untenanted, and every appearance the cotton trade in this country, and 600,000 persons dependent
of a transfer of our former flourishing manufactures from 'on the trade in France. The exports since the peace, up to
Gloucestershire, Wiltshire, and other parts. It had been two or three years ago, were seven times as much
hoped that that was a mere transfer, and that what in value as during the same number of years pre-
these counties had lost the north had gained ; ' vious to the peace. During the same period their
but it did so happen that, coeval with the decline cif own trade had increased from 22,000,000/. to 52,000,000 t.
the manufactures in the west, had been the commence- He bad, therefore, no fear for foreign competition, provided
ment of the distress which now laic ed the north. the capital and skill of the country in foreign markets was ai-
Then, when they went to the Midland Counties, to lowed thoehianvdenstfrairofpliahy. But when he sawthemhanner in
Leicestershire, to Shropshire, to Staffordshire, to
which
the
fear. lie was country was cramped,at he had every
what the cause for. _ _ . ready to show w petitioner-, Warwickshire, and carried the eye to Lancashire and only desired to prove by evidence, and if their Lordships refused
Yorkshire, the state of distress was almost the same as to receive it, the fault would lie with them and not with him.
in those counties where the woollen manufacture was in The petitioners would first show in what way the present re-
existence—houses untenanted, rents fallen, industrious, strictions on foreign trade arose, from the restrictions on foreign
able-bodied, healthy—at least at one time in health— corn. They were then prepared to show that at the present
skilful as men could be, both willing and able moment purchases were making for various countries at most
to work, and only desirous for hardly a pittance I reduced rates of most valuable machinery for the purpose of
to support them, thrown out of employment by exportation. That thereh were agents from France and Bel-
thousands, and those thousands receiving only such a gi um making thosepeuorsct,aasnecsi, that engines had fetched only one.
pittance that it could hardly be believed how life was thirdr
eoi,
rf
countries prime
had not ine seonm ee districtsw
remainedh er e t h e
oangseorlidt s
sustained.—(Hear, hear.) Wages were down to a ld., They were then prepared to show that in foreign countries the poor'e-rate was increased—in some places double, in manufactures had arisen that had never before been thought
other places three-fold and four-fold, and even eight-feld. of; and they were also prepared to show that there were reso-
, And in some districts there was a defalcation in property, lotions adopted by some of the most skilful artisans to emigrate.
20 or 30 or 40 per cent. more than it was two years ago. It was well known by the experience of all times, that in all
When he came to the details, with which he was almost such cases, the first to emigrate were the inferior workmen, and
afraid to deal, from the general statement over which he that the best hands were always the last—except, perhaps the
was running, not going, they were perfectly frightful, capitalists themselves.—(Hear, hear.) That was the class
Thousands of persons were without food for days, he which was rarely known to emigrate.—( Hear, hear.) Yet,
could not say a day, without a morsel to eat.—(Hear, there was a large number o f capitalists who were now preparing
hear.) In some cases the people were unable to leave
to emigrate, and could only
e which they pros—or, by the hope that their
their beds of straw, thinking they would be the better able heortdhel:hau would listen to their prayr, and that their case would
on that account to stifle the pangs of hunger. They be inquired into.—( Hear hear.) He could mention persons
lived on what ought not be eaten by men, and actually that employed upwards of a thousand workmen—
envied the husks to swine. Clergymen and medical for obvious reasons he could not state who they were
mess gave the same testimony as to the insuffi- nor even in what part of the country they were—who could
ciency of the food ; but he must say that in the midst not be turned from accomplishing their design of leaving the
of those scenes, the kindliest dispositions were evinced country, except by the change to which he alluded. He knew
by persons but a little removed from those whom they one man who had 200,000/. worth of goods locked up in his
attempted to relieve.—(blear, hear.) In one case, a warehouse, which he could not sell without a heavy loss, but he
a omen famishing with her infant found shelter in a mi- was preparing to do so, and to make a sacrifice of two-thirds
serable cellar, and in three hours after herinfant died actu- of his property, with a view to invest it in another country,
a itat with safety and profit, in
ally from want of being able to find sufficient nutriment. where he could employ his c
'e •
• • consequence of the absence of those restrictions which
In another case, a man who had been without work were the ruin of his trade here. Such cases were cer-
fifteen or sixteen Necks, obtained employment, and tainly of the rarer kind, but he was prepared to prove
worked 10 hopes without food, but he was obliged that there were a great number of persons with capital of
to give up, he came back to his house, flung himself on a less amount who could only be turned from their determi-
bench, and his wife burst into tears, knowing he had not nation to emigrate by the relief for which they prayed. Now,
tasted any food that day. But some kind person gave it might be said, that if the change which they required were
them a little money, and he thanked him, and said it was effected, that the distress would be the same. But those per-
a sorry sight to see the poor in that state, and sons were
in
to show,
in f:onlmeritohaettatttetrisieofd. their correl -
wished that he might never know what hunger was. These asitsononenetseienasGe Germany and
They would show that they would receive
ssr,w.eriv,de
things quite unmanned one, and were excruciatingly orders sufficient for their ample employment the instant the
painful.—(Hear, hear.) But it was cheering to know that change was made; nay, the instant their Lordships indicated a
in the midst of thie distress the people exhibited the greatest willingness to give the matter a fair consideration. The menu-
patience, and did not violate the law of facturers were obliged to dismiss their men. He had heard
their country—(Cries of ~ Hear, hear")—and that all that in a place in Yorkshire, at a manufactory, the men were
attempts of ill-meaning or no-meaning persons have asked which they would rather do, work five days in the week
proved ineffectual to turn them from their duty to at the usual wages, by half the men being kept. only,
their country, to their families, and to themselves, or whether they would rather work half the week
Who were those persons, of whose sufferings he had for the whole of the number being employed.
spoken ? They were no more nor less than the work- They unanimously preferred the latter. He could not conceive
ing classes at large of the country. It was anything more creditable or more honourablet to
from 2s.
the working classes and their cause that the people—( Hear, hear )—reducedits he, w.e
of
m-
is. a day
to Is. He wished to remind their Lordships.. the effect. of
petitioners submitted to the consideration of their Lord- . - In America, in the
ships ; the working classes, to whom the country owed Northern States there were no protective duties. In the
everything, and who had raised the commercial Western Stateastweshieh w ere equally divided between the Southern
greatness of the country to its present stupendous height. and Northern States, they were inclining to the protective duties.
In Isis opinion the patience and tranquillity of the work- The Western States finding that the Northern States were
ing classes ought to work powerfully on their Lord- supported by our example, would turn the scale in the
ships ; and added to this, it most be remembered, that Assembly in favour of the protective and prohibitory duties.
the working classes had no hand in making the This encouraged smuggling on their coast, as it was almost im-
laws by which they were governed.—(Hear, hear.) possible to prevent it with such an extensive frontier. Our
The millions did not contribute a single vote in the iTemdsms we 7
dealsiiely smuggled inrtoohAihniiteorrica,dubtliiets cwoern croeuvlednnieedt
choice of the men by whom their laws were them from sending they onlyu pcommodit; they had to sell. It
made. Upwards of five millions were entirely excluded was the same error which this country had fallen into at the
from any share in the representation ; such being time of the Orders in Council, which orders went to enforce
the case, if their Lerdships were riot their the Berlin and the Milan decrees, which would have been a
actual representatives, which they undoubtedly dead letter but for those orders, from which they received a
were as much as any Member of the other most triumphant and a most mischievous efficacy. They
Ilouse of Parliament—(Heat', hear)—he must intreat were doing the same thing now
Americawith
L t,
e io
nte.
the
f
of them to be their actual protectors.—(Hear, hear.) he
Americanfactual
mucha as
trde. Thepresent
ofßonaparte, had not England
laws
of
would not say a word that would wear the appearance of fra a
stepped in with thet the decreesresourees of her revenue department for
party, because the present was no party question. the purpose of enabling the American Government to give
A question of this sort did not naturally lend itself to party. what they call protection—aldiough he thought that. was an
No man could ever dream of 'forming a party in this country abuse of the word pro
doubt favour of their own trade.
upon what might be called economic grounds— en questions But there could be no doubt but that if England were ready to
respecting trade and revenue. But he could not say how far exchange her manufactures for the grain of the United States,
distant might be the day when the p„pl, would understand the Western States would join the Southern States against the
economical questions as well as they understood those great protecting States of the North. But the evil of the present
constitutional questions upon which alone party could be formed system was not confined to our trade with America. A letter
at present iii England. Whenever the time did come it might which had been written by the Prussian Minister, in the year
be possible to find some principle of economy on which it would 1 1824, to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in this coup.
be possible that a party could be bound together. I try at that time, stated in express terms that if an arrangement
Perhaps it might not be so difficult to fetus such , were toad e for the importation. of tho corn, the timber, and the
a party Row, although be thought it was, is at the i

other articles of Prussisn pt educe into this ..ountey tome liberal most desirable. But he biteeved awe that tlie require.' invest-
terms, a tariff would be araiwally arranged between Prussia and tigat'etl vaned en, be so cosenteted, but tea it wetter put eff
Great Britain. He also understood that. Mr. Addington, from the application di' arty remedy for years, male revolution would
America, had made a similar communication afterwards; but take place in the meeeltittte. Nu reduction of the price of
unfortunately neither the ti nor the other was favourably re- bread would be any relief td flute unhappy persons,
wwhose
s e
ceived by the Governments of those peeitidei hid heard of welfare was as dear to him as it could, be hi Noble
one remedy for the existing distress, to which he thatight Learned Friend. The Noble Lord coecledo ed by saying that
right to advert before he sat down, for the purpose of entering he eelitirl rent etipport the motion.
against it his solemn protestation: If their Lordships would Lord 1(114.P WIRD tegretted the determination of the Govern-
grant him a Committee, for which he asked, he could of course ment to refuse the Italie re: He knest the petitioners, and he could
have no objection to hear any matter relating to the sub- say that it was not their sole theetiee tO epee the Corn-laws.
ject discussed, and evidence upon every point adduced, Rut he thought that those who attribtited that motive to them
He should be prepared, for instance, to enter with his Noble ably feared that the removal of those laws would he the inevit-
Friend at the table (Earl Stanhope) into the currency ques- able result of a thorough inquiry into the causes of the' diefteeees
tion, or into the nature of machinery. He had not the least He was disposed to epee with the Noble Earl (Stanhope)
doubt that his Noble Friend, if the Committee were granted, . that if matters were allowed WI go on as they were, the cone'.
would be disposed to enter into both the one and the other. quences would be such as the Noble Earl apprehended. It
Earl STANHOPE—And into the protection to labour. ' was not only the manufacturing towns, but also the commercial
Lord BROUGHAM—And welcome.—( A laugh.) And towns. in which the distress was intolerable. The Noble Lord
into what my Noble Friend calls the protection to labour. then read extracts from a letter from Liverpool, to show the
Whether he means to carry his protection further than only extent of the distress amongst the traders and artisans
destroy spinning machinery and cotton mills—whether he of that. important town, especially those connected with the
means to carry it to tee extent of destroying all furnaces or shipping interest. In the manufacturing districts the distress
steam-engines connected with furnaces, which, without machi- was greater. In the cotton trade there was complete stagna-
nery, would be incapable of being worked—whether he means tion, owing to the competition of foreign manufac-
to extend it to the exclusion of horse-power in these various turers, which we ourselves had raised by our protective system.
employments; the effect of that exclusion being not merely to By our Corn-laws a stop was put to that interchange of corn-
prevent the emeloyment of horse-power, but the employment modifies which might otherivise take place between this; country
of the men engaged in working it, and to extinguish the and foreign nations. It appeared from a statement made by
capital. which it created, and which could only be employed in sJr. Addington, that if American corn were allowed to be im-
enlarging the field of industry. Whether that was the mean- ported into this country, the American tariff would never have
in; of his Noble Friend, or whether he meant to go further, to passed ; and even as it was, that tariff had been sanctioned by a
the uttermost pitch of consistency, in order to protect labour, majority of only three in Congress. Of late years our exports
and to prohibit the employment of tools also—(Laughter)— of manufactures to America had been paid for in fictitious
because just in proportion as tools were diminished the hand paper ; but the fact that those exportations had taken place
was made more powerful—whether his Noble Friend meant to proved that America afforded a market for our goods; and all
push his theory to that extreme point of absolute consistency or that was wanted to place the trade between the two countries
not, he (Lord. Brougham) could not conjecture.—(Laughter.) on a mutually advantageous basis was, that we should allow
He had no objection that this point should be included in the them to pay us in their agricultural produce for our manutaa-
inquiry. Even he had no objection that the sugar question tured articles. The result of our present system was, that we
should be referred to it, though he was one of those who were raising America into a manufacturing country. He be-
thought that they would rather be discussing the question, lieved that if we were to impose a 6s. fixed duty upon foreign
whether crime should be encouraged or trade protected— grain, the corn of the United States could not be imported here
whether a bounty were to be given to Cuba and the Brazils, and sold under 455. or eos. ; and the farmers of this country
for the purpose of stimulating the slave-trade. But regarding, need, therefore, have very little to apprehend from the adop-
as he did, every pound of sugar which came from those places two of such a proposal. He cordially supported the motien then
as defiled with crime and steeped in African blood, and willing before the House.
to show how far he was ready to go for inquiry, he had no ob- . The Marquis of CL A N RICA RDE contended that the
jection even to that question being referred to the Committee. Noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Ripon) had furnished no
A proposition was made for the purpose of making the Legis- answer to the powerful arguments of his Noble and Learned
lature yield on this subject, which he considered to be fraught Friend ( Lord Broughsm). The only reason why our trade
with incalculable mischief and unspeakable injury—he meant had declined was, that foreign nations were unwilling or unable
any attempt, by what were called non consumption agree- . to pay tor our manufactures, while we excluded them agri-
nients to embarrass the Government. He considered any at- cultural proiluce. There collet he no doubt but that the
tempts of this kind as tending directly and immediately to ex- couetry was now plunged in the deepest distress ; and if the
aeperate the mischief under which the country was at present suf- Government refused the inquiry new proposed, it was their
fering. It was at least satisfactory to know that in the midst . duty to tell the House what they intended ro do for the purpose
of their distresses credit. had been preserved. Many attempts of meeting the threatening evils of the coming einem.. the
of this kind were made to prevent the Government going on . Government had passed the tariff; but no one believed that
peacefully and steadily. Those who made them, however that measure would relieve, at feast fur some time, the de-
good their views might be, would be the first to repent dining trade of the country. They had now no re her mea-
of them. Before sitting down, he would ask what objection sure before Parliament but the Poor-law—a law of which he
could there be to such an inquiry? Even if it were not poi- approved in its main details, but which offered .so resource for
sible that anything could be done—if not the shadow of a shade the wide-spread distress which prevailed throughout the land.
of a chance remained of being able to do anything to abate it— The conduct of the.people under their distresses had been sur-
even if they were resolved to deny them relief—still the in- prising. but they must nut press upon them too much. The
quiry ought to be made, the representations of the eeople present state of things could not be kept up; something must
ought to be heard. Those who said that there should be no be done for the people; they had now arrived at a state of
change in the Corn-laws, he thought committed a great mis- things when they must submit to inconvenience, or something
take. A new Corn-Bill had lately been passed. It had been worse.—( Hear, hear.) He cordially concurred with the mo-
in operation about eight weeks. Was it not right to examine its tion, and would support it unless some Member of her Majesty's
in operation? When this Bill passed, there were two different Government anneuneed his intention of bringing forward
opinions expressed upon it. One was, that it was better than some effectual remedy for the distress that existed in the
the former law; another was, that it was as bad as the former country.
law; and another opinion was, that it was worse. Viscount MELBOURNE had never heard a more temperate
He (Lord Brougham) held the first opinion. but he speech from the Noble Lord who had introduced the present
thought a great deal more of it than he did, as they thought it motion. Every one must have been convinced by it of the
was all that was wanted. Now, here were four different distress that existed in the country ; but what alarmed him was
opinions. He said at first there were only two. Was it not the long cont nuance of the distress, and the patience with
expedient to inquire which was-right ?It was not. enough to which the people bore it. He thought Parliament ought not
say that they were at the close of the session.—( Hear, hear.) to delay finding a remedy for the distress that existed. He had
That would not do in times like these.—( Cheers.) It they considered the subject most fully, but he did not think it
could sit all last summer because of an expected change in the would be wise to appoint the Committee that had been pro-
Alinistry—if they could sit till September because of a political posed. What they had to consider was, whether the course
change in August, that was a question respecting the balance of ',reposed to be adopted was wise or not, or was one likely to
parties, and not respecting the interests ofthe people. It was . produce any good. If the House had distrust in the Govern-
now not, only the interest of the people, but the well-being of mein, it might be well to appoint a Committee, but if it had
the people ; and not only the well-being, but the positive sub- ' not, he did not see the utility of it. He believed if ever
sistence of the people. Winter was coming with her sable there was a question in whice ample inquiry had taken
wings and long nights, and the distress would be overpowering. place, it was the Corn-laws. A Bill had already
—( Hear, hear.) The remaining three or four weeks in Par- passed both Houses on the subject in the course of the present
liament under such circumstances ought to he matter of the session. He did not think that Bill a good one, butt still it had
most complete indifference in a rational point of view. He been adopted by Parliament ; and it was impossible to deny
was really ashamed tosteop to enter into such an argument. He that there was a great deal of danger and evil in repeated
had undertaken to bring this subject .before their Lordships change. He believed that the apprehension of change and
most reluctantly. He had done so that he might. ' fluctuation would do more evil and prevent more good than the
not be answerable to his conscience. He had done so with the ' maintenance of the present law, even if all the evils charged
fear, he admitted, with the apprehension, that he should fail in ' upon it were true. He did not think, with some Noble. Lords,
obtaining the assent of their Lordships to his proposition ; and ' that the evils under which the country was labouring were
he had done so, running the risk that if he did obtain their Lord- mainly attributable to the Corn-laws. Believing that the ap-
ships' consent, the inquiry might by possibility prove fruitless. pointment of the proposed Committee would be attended with
But still he felt that in the ensuing winter the distress would be no good, but with evil, be could not give his vote for the motion
great, thatduring that hard season—harder than ever for those of his Noble Friend.
who were more destitute than ever—that during that hard Earl RADNOR would vote for the motion of . the Noble
season the suffering of the people would be greater than hereto- Lord, believing the course he had pointed oat was the only
fore; and therefore happen what may, he had at least discharged one to pursue.—( Hear, hear.) The state of the country was
his duty, arid freed himself from a great responsibility, that • calamitous in the extreme ; every day they were getting
though he might deplore, as he most deeply did deplore, the worse, and it therefore behoved Parliament to do something.
suffering of the people, at least he was not answerable to his -Nene of the measures that had been introduces! by the Govern-
conscience ; and he hoped to God that their Lordships would ment had done any good—neither the Corn-law, the Income-
take the same means of relieving themselves from the same re- ; tax, nor the Tariff. As to the Tariff, of which so much had
sponsibility.—(Cheers. ) The Noble and Learned Lord con- been said, he believed that, instead of good, evil would arise
eluded by moving that the petitions be referred tea Select Cern- from it. In • this state of things, was Parliament to do
raittee of the same nature as that appointed in 1832, to inquire nothing ?—( Hear, hear.) He. thought the course pursued
into the distress then existing in the agricultural districts. by his Noble Friend would be prodUctive of great
The Earl of RIPON was certainly not at all surprised that ' good, and he should, therefore, give it his hearty support.
his..,Noble and Learned Friend had brought himself to submit The expectation of a revival of traee had failed altogether. It
the proposition with which he had concluded, to their Lord- was expected that the spring trade would be brisk, but they
ships, with very great reluctance, and that he had .hesitated had now got into the middle of summer and 'no change had
before he would permit himself to do so. He was quite sure, taken place ; on the contrary. the distress was getting greater
from his Noble and Learned Friend's extensive knowledge of and greater every day The Noble Earl said that this was not
the matter he submitted, awl from his long experience in all attributable to the Corn-laws. But these foolish manufacturers,
matters of Parliamentary proceedings, he was quite sure that as they were called, had informed his " foolish" Noble and
that reluctance was founded on very grave doubts in his own Learned Friend that they had evidence that su•h was the case.
mind as to his being successful in inducing their Lordships to How, then, could they refuse them an inquiry ? Ire 1e26 dis-
concur in the proposition, and, if so, to its bringing about any tress existed in the country. and a Bill was passed empowering
satisfactory result. The object. of the inquiry appeared to be the Council, in case the distress. continued after the prorogation
to repeal the Corn-laws. 'I hat was the sum and substance of of Parliament, to admit foreign corn in hoed free for home
what his Noble and Learned Friend wanted. This the petition, consumption. Mr. Carmine, on that occasion, read a letter to
and those it represented, seemed to consider the panacea the Eouse of Commons which he had reeeive I Iran Liverpool,
for all the evils under which the country laboured. He ( the le which it was stated that when the news arrived in Liverpool
Earl of Ripon) feit some difficulty in being called upon to wont such a measure was passed, cotton rose sd. a pound, and
discuss this subject again. Twice in the present session there were no sellers. The markets beeame at once brisk.—
had this been a subject of great discussion. In that ( Cheers.) It was w.ll known that distrese was so grew that
debate the Corn-laws were fully discussed as 10 people were dying from starvation. Under these circumstances
their being the causes of the distress. If the Owe- he, for one, should support the motion.—( Hear, hear. )
laws were repealed it would be unkind to the people, be- Lord WHARNCLIFFE said that when they talked of re-
cause they would hope that the repeal of the Corn-laws would pealing the Corn-laws they must recollect that there were
be a relief to the distress of the country, and their hopes would other interests to be considered besides the manufacturing.
be delusive. lie thought it would be better to abs:ain from If they repealed the Corn-laws, and it gave no relief to the
.sit inquiry, unless they could ascertain that the result would manufacturing districts, the present distress wooed be much
answer the expectation of those who proposed it. His Noble aggravated by the distress which the repeal of the Corn-laws
Friend said that the real cause of all the distress was the em- would cause to the agricultural labour. With respect to the
barrassment in commerce arising out of the restrictions which new Corn Bill, he thought that a period of eight_ weeks was not
the Corn-laws imposed. Now they must consider the nature long enough to prove the Bill. If they were to show a dis-
of the embarrassments which these restrictions caused. It position to repeal a law which they had passed only eight weeks
certainly could not be that we do not take the surplus corn of before, they would be considerably augmenting the distress
the countries on the Continent, because, in point of fact, instead of relieving it.
during the last ten years there had been entered for lewd BROUGH AM replied. He did not mean to impute
home consumption, and consumed, all the surplus produce of the thick-heededness and stupidity to the agric Iturists as Lord J.
exporting countries of Europe, with the exception of. that pors Russell had dime He (Lord B.) had not at all been shaken by
tion which was required for the wants of other importing what had been said by the Noble Earl and the Noble Viscount.
countries. During four years of that time, so good had been the It was said that this metion was directed against the Corn-
harvests here, that had there been no Corn-laws at all those har- laws alone. This he denied. If it were admitted that the
vests would have been sufficient protection. With respec' to ma- distress was not caused by a bail system, legislative and com-
nufactures, France took an immense amount of our manufactures; mercial, then they might say that that motion was against the
therefore how could the Corn-laws cause a diminution in the Corn-laws alone.—(Cheers.) He approved of the change, as
trade there ,when they had a Corn-law for the protecton of their it was called, which had been made in what was called the
own agriculture? So with Belgium and Russia. Was it tope sup- tariff, and he only wished it went further. For the reason that
p sed that if we said to Russia, we will repeal our Corn-laws if he would repeal the Corn-lases he would also repeal other re-
you will repeal your prohibitory duties, that they would repeal strictions upon articles which cramped the trade of the country.
those duties, considering the expense they had incurred in fos- —( Hear, hear.) Therefore, he denied that the debate was on
tering their own manufactures in Russia ?We took from the Corn-laws, and he denied that the in 'wry was upon the
Russia six or seven times the amount more than Russia eon- Corn-laws. Contrary to what had been stated by Noble Lords,
descended to take from us. Therefore, to repeal the Corn-laws that inquiry would teed to tranquillise the public mind. Could
appeared to him (the Earl of Ripen) to be the most fallacious Nohe Lords think that no b nefit would result from an inquiry
speculation that was ever entered into. This was the only in- inter tire distress, when the distress was admitted? There was
ference he could draw from facts which would come nut. before no doubt as to the distress, they only differed as to the cause.
the Committee, if appointed. Russia herself protected her own He rather agreed with those who did not ascribe the distress
corn, and imposed a duty of 13s. on corn. The seasons there wholly to the Corn-laws. They must look to other causes.
were extremely bad for some years. That was an additional This was an opinion generally held by the representatives of
reason for supposing that there would be no use in-repealing the people, and more generally held by the constituencies.
their Corn-law. Again, with respect to Prussia. Thet Go- If their Lordships, after dispassionate inquiry, after looking
vernment expressed their opinion that the recent Corn-law of before, behind, and around, found that the Corn-laws were
this country would produce a more steady trade. There was - not the cause of the distress, then a great benefit would be con-
no likelihood that though they should alter their policy, the ferret by that alone upon the country.—( Hear.) But that
German League woule also alter their commercial policy. the iequiry should be opposed on the grounds alleged, was to
Then his Noble Friend alluded to America. Now, during the him utterly and entirely incomprehensible. Then with regard
Corn-law they had a very flourishing trade with America, and to the effect of the seasens upon the production of the distress;
although a change took place, that was in consequence of the if, as Noble Lords opposite contended, the distress was occa-
monetary derangements of America. There never was a time in sioned by bad seasons, or, as he believed, had nothing to do
which the manufacturing population of America were more with it, the determination of the question must be productive
urgent in pressing on the Government the necessity of protec- jof the greatest advantage.—( Hear, hear.) If it were shown
lion, and this was in consequence of the cheap labour of the that Providence had afflicted them with those evils, and not
old European States. But they did not do so in consequence their own legislation, nothing would tend more to pacify and
of this Corn-law. He did not know whether the American tranquiliseohe country. He would beg to remind their Lord-
Government would accede to those demands. many persons ships before they came to a vote, of what he had stated before,
thought they would not ;at all events, it would not be in con- that he must be a bold man who would affirm
sequence of their Corn-laws.—( Hear, hear.) His Noble that no documents or no witnesses whom they might
Friend alluded to other points, which he did not think neees- examine could throw any light upon the subject. But
nary to refer to the Committee, but he did not see how they ihe was told that this would be a partial inquiry. If he had not
could abstain from going into them. He did not see how said enough that evening tc show that there was no prejudice
they could avoid inquiry into the question of the cure on his side—that he was ready to hear the whole evidence,
rency. if the inquiry were given, how could the even whatever might be produced with regard to the currency
Noble Lord come to a decision, in the short time and over-productien itself—if he had not shown himself of
he thought it necessary for inquiry ? Both sides must be heard, i equal mind on all subjects, and ready to undertake Inquiry a,
and one class would be arrayed against another, which he : judicially as if he were sitting on the Bench administer-leg jus-
thought would be peculiarly unfortunate at this time. He had rice instead of in a Committee of Inquiry in that House. then he
a high opinion of the good sense of the people of this country, should in vain hope by any asseverations on his part to alter
and he did not think they would ascribe to any other cause the ! their Lordships' opinion, or change their expectation of
refusal of their Lordships to grant this inquiry than that. it i the manner in which the inquiry ought to be conducted,—(Hear.)
Would not have the effect anticipated from it.—(Hear, hear.) They had periods of distress before. They had periods of
Earl STANHOPE agreed with the Noble and Learned age icultural distress, and what was done ? Why, inquiry, in the
Lord opposite in the extent of the distress, and he believed if very words he used in his motion, was granted in 1822. and it
an immediate relief was not afforded anarchy would be the was riot done to embarrass the Government. It was impossible
result. The distress of the country was alluded to in the that land should escape the pressure of distress if trade was
speech from the throne, and yet the first measure proposed was affectee. They had a reciprocal influence one on the other,
a diminution of the protection given to the home grower of and he believed if an inquiry was granted, it would do more
corn. Then came the Income-tax, which must diminish the than anything to tranquillise the fears of :h.' agriculturists. As
fund out of which labour was paid ; anti then the tariff, which an instance, he would adduce the new tariff. He knew coup-
way objectionable en every point. He would now come to the ties himself in which no cattle sales could be effected. Fat
arguments of his Noblf, arid Learned Friend with respect to earths were advertised st 3e. and 4d. a pound, arid great ap-
machinery ; and here, be- must say, he wished be could put out j prehension was the eensequence, - But now lie be laved there
of his recollection the manner in which the Noble Lord spoke nun net seinenn a vestige of alarm in any part of the (toiletry on
of the agriculturists, as a lazy, idle body, when introducing the subject. Why? Because the parties inquired, and
the New Posir.law—that cruel measure. What was said ot j they bound that their tears were without f Jut:dation.
Dr. Johnson in that bad Latin inscribed upon his monument in iso he believed it would be ev ith regard to the
Westminster Abbey might be applied is his Noble and Learned I Corn-laws. —( [leer, hear. ) He noted met now enter
Friend, for he was into the sulejett of machinery, to which his Noble Friend (Lord
" Magister verhorum gravissimus."—( Laughter.) Statthope ) alluded. But it that were the cause of the diet ress.
Now he ( Lord Stanhope) had rese„tee renown from the and found to be so by the inquiry, then there was an end put to
artisans themselves complaining of the increase ot machinery, the agitation of the Corti-laws.—( Hear, hear. ) He feared that
and tere coat be no d übt that it threw many of them out he had already exhausted their Lordships' patience, as well as
out them pioyment. And in those cases he thought the people his own strength, on this important subject. He had never
had aright to protection from those by whose means they suf- doubted of the entire revival of our trade, if that trade were
fered. If his Noble and Learned Friend had lived amongst relieved from the restraints with which our own laws shackled
the labouring-classes as much as he did, he would understand it; and his prayer was that their Lordships would interpose to
what was meant by protection of labour. A woollen manuftc- save it from entire ruin.— (Cheers.
turer in the West Riding of York—who was one of that party The House then d.vided. The numbers were—
nearly extinct, the old Tories, whom he should ever reset et_
1 or the motion
( A laugh)—told him, that unless Parliament did something Against it ...... ...... 61
to protect, the wages of labour, the country would be Majority against the meson — 47
ruined.—( A laugh.) The real cause of the distress of the
manufacturers was their own rapacity, by which they ground
Lordships thee adjourned.
down the labourers to the starvation point, and then lowered
their own pieces by over-production. The manufacturers re-
minded him of Alexander, who wept because he ;rad no mote
worlds to conquer.---(A laugh.) They would clothe the whole
human race, and then weep that they had no mere worlds to
clothe. —( Laughter.) The effect of repealing. the Corn-laws
would be to deprive them of the home market, which was the
most valuable to themselves,—('fury cheers.) One other
effect would be to encourage smuggling—the smuggling of
cotton goods into America, and he would oppose that as he had
opposed the smuggling of opium into China.--(A laugh.
The Noble Lord at the head of the Government in that
House had said that the distress was occasioned by several
causes, operating simultaneously and conjunctively, sand he
agreed as to two of them—the increase of machinery arid the
introduction of agricultural labourers into the manufacturing
districts. The hatter could be remedied by restoring the
agricultural labourers to their natural employment arid repeal-
ing the New Poor-law, which hid driven them from it. He,

,u! eet.

HOUSE OF (...).11,110NS. July 11.
"fite SPEAKER took the :t few tiunotes boron.:
Four ~'Clock.

believed tlst ►pWtio,Uy conducted, w 9,44 be

-

NP• s'.
SUPPLY.—LORD AUCKLA- of tb% Por
Sir R. PEEL, in rising to move the Ord'4.tee et ;dig,
for the House resolving itself into a Cum° „f o"ti,ord
ply, said, he wished to take that opportunitY,,,ite ( on
the statement made by the Noble Lord oplb''l„, one,
le'
Palmerston) on the last night, or the 19•61' joile loth
which the House met. That statement witscrifsiool
• KEIGHTLEY UNION, fovenee to the policy pursued by the late Geo ii, „bit! Pest,,l
Alter a short conversation, leave was given to the regard to the war in Affghatistan. 411'101d pr"cipa
Keightley Union Committee, to continue their sitting,- had stated that her Majesty's Government
..s Goll,,oti
this evening, notwithstanding the sitting of tho House. 't° to Lord Auckland that he should reatin: , 00,icv•
PRIVATE BILLS. General of India, and thence he inf,rred tliPiit. rena'c'e•
-un approval on the part of the Government t
~ imer
..,,s
The Bishop of Derry's Estate Bill was read a second - • . son .011 c
time. He mu.t decidedly protest against 110., her WO p., 0.
Tc Davidson Estate Bill, the Cleveland Estate Bill. :In Ili'. drat place he should say, tina lii thertftsedlil:(o!
Government had been disposed to a"- ,I. of In , the
the Litzwilliam Estate Bill, and several others, were rt-, .
ported. . the se
• "lees nl...Lord Auckland, , inerrt-
The MoStyn, Bridgewater, Southampton. Lorton, and a certain time, it was not thence to he ,t, dot i. f A
Tweeddale Estates Bills were read a second time, as was government made themselves a part)" 'be part
eu, of
, There must be every disposition on t • rret'c oci
also Verconsin's Naturalisation Bid. - as Govern( .
___‘,4 tha,oo.,
the Of 1 ,d..?_A
LIVERPOOL IMPROVEMENTS BILL. Government, whatever might be • Auclt -...t AV
Lord • w.
The Lords' amendment's to this Da .w.ore agreed to,. Political
_feeling, iconsidering that .
and tho-13111 Viai maid. -." . . - .. icir fiius ear saninigered she affairs us
...