The Sun.
London, England, 1842-06-18 00:00:00

neously adhered to which excluded their Lordships from a re-
vision or correction of those most important Acts which came
up fiem the other House of Parliament. They had the power
by the constitution of that House, by the manner in which the
business was transacted, by the manner in which that House
was composed, having within its walls not only statesmen who
had adorned this country—men of their professions, if he could
cab statesmen professional—but the sages of law, as 'well as the
statesmen, judges, these who presided in the tribunals of the
country, who were best versed in its laws, the House itself
being the highest judicial body, as well as a great branch of the
Legislature—they had the power and the capacity to alter
arrangements, principles, and details, such as the arrangements
and det;•ils of this Bill, as accurately, as s'ringently, as usefully,
as fruitfully as the other House. He had no manner
of doubt but that if the treasure had been framed
as he had recommended, he had no hesitation in saying he would
not say tkey would have made the measure better, but they
would have rendered it more palatable. This Bill, in its pre-
sent realm -the immense mass on the table, from which his
Noble Friend almost shrank, was hideous in its aspect, the
arrangements were odious—
" Monstrum, horrendum, monstrum infernum, cui lumen in-
gens ademptum."—(Loud laughter. )
Had they been allowed to make those alterations he had re-
commended, the measure would hare been more palatable. It
would have been relieved from some of its worst defects. He
had deemed it his duty, as a Member of that House, to take
the course he had done, and to attack the point of privilege
claimed by the other House.
Lord MELBOURNE said that he fully agreed with the first
pact of the Noble and Learned Lord's speech, wherein he said
that this was a question of paramount importance. It was a
question of very great importance ;it u-as, in his opinion, a
question of greater importance than any which had been sub-
nutted to their Lordships for many years. This was a question
which involved not only an immense difficulty, but it involved
the safety, the strength, the future power and security of this
country. He must say that it was the greatest question since
the great question of Reform in the representation in Parlia-
ment. phis was a question not involving party feeling, and
ought to be considered only with respect to the well-being
of this great community. He should therefore take
leave to consider the question, and trusted it would
not be at too great a length, but he should trespass upon their
Lordships to consider this question in a general point of view.
He thought his Noble and Learned Friend found himself in an
awkward position.—(Laughter.) The Noble and Learned
Lord had altered his position since 1816, as he was then its
most active opponent ; he then covered the measure with in-
vective, and now he came forward in another character as the
supporter of the measure. This seemed to place him in
seine difficulty, and his situation seemed most inconsistent. Cn
the former occasion he -heaped his invective upon it, but
he gave it his opposition, he now came forward with all his in-
vective, but he gave the Bill his support. He (Lord Mel-
bourne) could not help thinking that this was something like
inconsistency.—( Hear, hoar.) His speech and his act were
different on that occasion, he denounced the measure as hor -
resident nostrum—(Laughter)—and he, therefore, could not
think he was consistent in giving it his support. He (Lord
Melbourne) had the misfortune not entirely to agree with the
Noble and Learned Lord. He could not agree with the Noble
Lord in supposing that benefits would arise from this measure.
Nor did he see the necessity which made this measure neces-
sary. The Noble and Learned Lord said that this was a tax
rendered necessary by war. 'l'he Noble and Learned Lord had
stated, and he (Lord Melbourne) entirely agreed with him,
that this was a tax only to be imposed in time of very great
emergency. This applied to any tax. 'I here ought not to be
a duty im?osed upon any article, of consumption, or any other
tax whatever, that pressed on the community at large, unless
there was an absolute necessity for the imposition. Calamities
we re predueed in the time of peace. The greatest calamity
which had befallen France, the revolution, was produced in a
time of peace at the time of the greatest triumphs which had
greatly humiliated this country. Calamities were just as likely
to befal nations in a time of peace as war.—(Hear, hear. )
It had been said that the present Prime Minister did not de-
ceive the people, but he stood by and allowed the people to de-
ceive themselves. He (Lord Melbourne) did not say that that
was true, but he thought it was very well expressed, most capi-
tally expressed.—( Laughter.) He did not know that it was
altogether unjustifiable to do so, but he thought it was taking a
very great advantage.—(Great laughter.) He thought this tax
was a measure which would be productive of a great deal of
good ; he admitted its inequality, but at the same time he
thought that the principal objection to it was its equality.—
( Great laughter.) It was impossible to deny that it was of an
inquisitorial character, and that having to make a statement of
their pecuniary affairs was a great aggravation of the sufferings
of the people; at the same time he must say that a strong ob-
jection to this tax was the political feeling that raged so high.
He only hopeil that the Commissions would not be at all influ-
enced in their conduct by such feelings.—(Hear.) Another
great objection to this tax was hat it would tend to drive ca-
pital out of the country, but the same objection applied to every
tax which was calculated to raise a great revenue. Other ob-
jections had been raised. His Noble Friend said that
it would produce too much revenue—that it would go
beyond the time—but that was very easily remedied. Other
taxes could be reduced, which would restore things to their
equilibrium.—( Hear, hear.) It had been stated that Govern-
ment would be extravagant, and the year 1816 had been in-
stanced as an example which would be followed. He must say
tis: t s did not see any great danger on that score. He feared
I ex: wvagance, but it was
.the extravagance of the fancies of
Members of Parliament, and not of the Treasury benches,
who would be economical enough if they let them alone. He
must say that he did not feel generally the objections to this
tax so wrongly as they were felt by other persons, but he did
not think it a prudent or wise measure in the present state of
the c untry. Ile was well aware that the management of
the finances of the country during the Premiership of his Noble
Fr; end, Earl Grey, was not according to strict princij le. They
always trusted too much to the surplus, and did not sufficiently
tax the country. But there were cases in which a departure
from principle was the right principle. Ile thought, then,
that the country could not bear such a measure as this ; that
it was better not to go on always forcing, forcing, and so he
thought now. He had no objection whatever to raising a
revenue upon the importation of foieign corn, and the revenue
which might be raised from that source would be, in his opinion,
of a more certain character than Noble Lords opposite seemed
to think. Because the supply and prices fluctuated,
and they could not calculate exactly upon the amount
of revenue, be did not see why they should not
raise as much revenue as they- could on that article from a
fair and moderate duty.—(llear, hear.) It did not seem to
have been denied, that a revenue could be raised .from sugar,
ard he (Lord Melbourne) did say, considering the stringent
nature of this measure, and the prejudices _which prevailed
against it, that it was not,wise and prudent to try it till they
had first tried every other measure.—( Ilear, hear.) He did
not think the case suffieiently urgent to justify such a measure ;
and he thought they were throwing away what might by and
by be very useful to them. He should say, as Solon said—
(Laughter)—when he was asked whether he had given the
Athenians the best possible laws. He said, " No; but khave
given them the best they can bear ;" and he thought that that
saying would apply to his propositions, when he held the high
office of Premier. He submitted these measures to the court-
I try, and he said that the country refused them; but Noble
Lords opposite said, " No ; they did not object to your mea-
sures, they did not object to your principles, but they objected
to yon."—(A laugh.) That had been said a thousand times,
but he could not admit it.—(Laughter.) But it was perfectly
competent for Noble Lords opposite, who contended that it
was not the measures that had been rejected by the country, to
propose them again. He could not do so, but they
might ; and he thought it would have been a better
course to have adopted, than the one' which had been
adopted. Noble Lords opposite should, however, recollect
that having once entered upon this course they could not re-
tract, they must follow it up—once entered upon that course, to
recede would be dishonour and ruin. He said this because he
wished to guard himself. 14 should vote against the present
measure, but he wished to be distinctly understood that if this
course should be adopted, he should reserve to himself the full
right of supporting her Majesty's present Government, or any
future Government which might happen to be in office at the
time, which should propose to continue this measure, or to
carry it out even to a greater extent.—(Hear, hear. )
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, whether the country in
deciding against these measures decided against the measures or
against the men who made them, he did not know. He sup.
ported this measure upon his own views ; but those measures to
which the Noble Viszount had referred he thought should not
have been proposed, and ought not to be adopted. He agreed
with the Noble Lord that this measure was totally different from
that of 1816. He considered that it was one absolutely neces-
sary to enable Parliament to meet the deficiency in the
revenue, and the exigencies of the country. The Noble Via-•
count thought that a duty should have been laid upon corn,
sugar, and timber ; but he said little in reply to the arguments
of the inadequacy of the duty upon corn. They wanted a cer-
tain revenue—( Hear, hear)--all they wanted was certainty.—
( Ilear. ) It -was quite possible that in scare seasons no corn
might be imported, and in other seasons very laige
quantities might be imported, and in neither case could
the revenue he depended upon. Now, with reference
to the duty upon sugar. The Noble Lord opposite
had objected upon financial grounds to any alteration in the
duty upon foreign sugar. He (Duke of Wellington) had taken
a very simple view of the case, which was this : This Go-
vernment had enterectinto treaties with the
_Spanish Govern-
ment and other Powers for putting an end to the slave trade.
Those treaties had not been strictly carried into execution,
and they knew that large quantities of slaves were exported
from Africa up to this moment; and he did think, that when-
ever this country made such a concession as to lower the duties
on foreign sugars, it would be adding a premium to slavery.
He thought these duties ought not to be lowered, without some
security for putting an end to the slave trade ; particularly, as
he believed, the full demand of this kingdom might be sup-
plied from their own possessions in the tropics. Under these
circumstances, he thought they ought to consider maturely be-
fore they lowered the duties on foreign sugar. Considerincr
that the increased per centage on the asses-ed taxes had failed,'
and the Excise duties being deficient, he thought no other
course thEn that of the Government could have been
adopted. But if the revenue raised by this tax should
be more than was necessary, there could be no reason
why the surplus should not be applied to the remis-
sion of taxes that should benefit the commerce of the
country. This was the purpose to which it was intended
to apply the overplus. The tax must be maintained as long as
it might be necessary. He hoped the Government would so
maintain it, but not one hour longer than it should be so re-
quited.—( Hear, hear.) But if these new duties should be-
come productive, then they would be able to repeal this tax,
from the increase of revenue consequent upon the revival of
commerce. By former measures an attempt was made to
supply the deficiency of the revenue, but the promise of those
measures had remained unfulfilled to this day. He had already
stated that the Government would maintain this tax as long as
it might be necessary, and he would declare for himself, and he
believed for his colleagues, that from nothing but necessity
should they impose it. He was aware of the nature of the tax,
and of the objectionable powers it imposed ; and the public too,
he believed were aware of its necessity. They had for some
years been engaged in a series of operations which, it they were
not war, were as much like it as could well be, and they were
now called oh to pay the bills, to the amount of ten millions
sterling. The deficiency of the Government for this year was
more than two millions, but he trusted that this tax would
supply the deficiency in a manner that should also conduce to
the prosperity of the nation. Nothing but necessity could have
induced them to impose the tax, and he would repeat that
nothing but necessity would lead them to continue it.
The Earl of WICKLOW rose amid loud cries of question.
Considering the nature of the measure, and that only four Noble
Lords had had an opportunityof giving their opinion upon it, he
thought their Lordships might carry on the debate beyond a
quarter past eleven.—( Hear, hear.) He was perfectly ready
to accede to an adjournment.—(No, no.) It appeared that
this was a tax that was necessary, but that should not have
been imposed could a substitute have been found for it. But
from the admissions of Members of the late Government, and
the fact of the period of the session at which their measures
were brought forward, he came to the conclusion that this tax
was an indispensable one. It was the only one that could touch
that large portion of the wealthy of this country who
sought the pleasures or the conveniences of
ofa fo-
reign residence ;_ all other taxes this class
2.
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per-
sons could evade. He regretted that her
erlreland.l j e n IYI es
Government had not extended its provisions t9_
n for paying
regretted this, not from any partteularbe
passion
that Ire-
taxes, but because he thought it was to
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