The Sun.
London, England, 1820-07-19 00:00:00

GLASGOW STATUTE LABOUR

The Earl of LAUDERDALE moved that the
Glasgow Statute
,Labonx: Bill, be re-committed.
The Duke c.f MoNitAx cdutendQd,...that:suf-
ficient opportunity had already been afforded for
discussion and there was nol-ground for further
delay.
After a few words from Lord Redesdale and
the Earl of Rosslyn, the Bill was read a third
time and passed.

MESvAGE FR QM THE COMMONS.

A Message from tile Commons informed the
House, that they had passed a considerable num-
ber of Bills,. which they presented for the con-
currence of their Lordships.

THE EXTRA POST BILL.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the second
reading of the Extra Post Bill.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, there wAs some
important information touching the subject of this
Bill, which it was his intention to move for,,as
necessary to the due understanding of the mea-
sure. He alluded, among other points, to the
estimates which were furnished respecting the
expences of the plan, the per centage to be al-
lowed, and the agreement concluded with the
Chancelloi of the Exchequer. The plan would
give a facility to the practice of jobbing on the
part of rival mercantile houses. He could also
wish to have laid before the House copies of the
correspondence between certain Merchants of
Leeds and Halifax, and his Majesty's Post-
master-General, relative to the probable mis-
chiefs that would ensue from the extent of rival
speculation, to which the measure would give
rise.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL said he had no objec-
tion to the production of these papers, if they
were moved for in the regular way.. The Noble
Earl must be aware that the correspondence at
the Treasury was conducted by the Board,
through their Secretary, and not by any of its
members individually. He could assure the
Noble Earl that on the subject in question no
bargain had• been-made in the manner he alluded
to. The transaction was shortly this—it was re-
presented by several mercantile persons in Liver-
pool and Glasgow, thdt a plan had been con-
trived by the speculation and ingenuity of an in-
dividual, which would save one half the time
already consumed in conveying the post to and
from London. Whether this plan might be
found to answer all the ends of revenue and ex-
pence he could not say; all that he now said was,
that the expeditious plan was practicable, and
that the whole object at present was merely ex-
perimental. The Act was therefore an empower-
ing one.' At present the answer to a letter sent
from London to Liverpool on Monday was not
obtained until the Friday. By the new plan it
could be had on Wednesday. It was intended
to try the plan at the outset only on one road.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE thought that the
partial operation of the plan would prove mis-
chievous to the places where it was not tried.
lie gave notice, that in the Committee upon the
Extra Post Bill he should move a clause, claim-
ing the conveyance of their Lordships' privileged
letters by this extra post.
Lord REDESDALE complained of the unfair
system towards the Trustees of Turnpike Roads,
of passing the Mail Coaches toll free. It would
be infinitely better, as in Scotland, to make an
extra postage charge, and pay the tolls, than pur-
sue the present system. He knew several instances
of great injury to the turnpikes in consequence of
this privilege.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that the subject
just touched upon might furnish good matter for
revision in a separate shape, but it could not in-
terfere` to impede the passing of this Bill.

On the motion of the Noble Earl the Extra
Postage Bill nas then read a second time, and or-
dered to be committed on Thursday next.
The Irish Lunatic Asylum Bill was (after a
few words from the Earl of Limerick) read a
second time.
CONIMuTATION OF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.
On the motion of the Marquess of LANSDOWN,
the adjourned debate on the above Bill was re-
sumed.

The LORD CHANCELLOR, in the course of some
observations on the subject, referred to certain
provisions of the Act of the 16th of the late King,
respecting offenders who attempted to disguise
their faces by blacking or other means, which
provisions he proposed should he left untouched
by any thing in the Bill before their Lordships.
The Marquess of LANsoo signified his ac-
quiescence in the proposition of the Noble and
Learned Lord ; and the Bill, after receiving a
correspondent amendment, was read the third
time and passed.
CAPITAL FELONIES' RF.PFAL BILL.
On the question for the third reading of the
Capital Felonies' Repeal Bill, a discussion of
soma length took place.

The LORD CHANCELLOR, expressed consider-
able doubts as to the effect of-passing the Bill-in

[PRICE SEVENPENCE

its present shape. It would militate too exten-
sively against the principle upon which so great
a portion of our law of punishments is founded.
The Noble and very Learned Lord then referred
to provisions in various Statutes, which he was
certain it would be essential to the due admini-
stration of justice, should be left untouched. He
also thought, with respect to the effect of those
Statutes, at least it would be. pro=per.. nothing
should be done until they had the opinion of the
Judges upon the subject ; and, in his view of 'the
question, he thought it would be desirable to have
the Bill re-,committed,

The Marquess of LANSOOWN had no decided
objection to the course proposed by the • Noble
Lord on the Woolsack ; and he Inutno objection
to the leaving out those parks of the Bill adverted
to, in order to their Lying over till the next Ses-
sion for more deliberate discussion. The leading
provision of the Bill was to change or commute
the punishment for the offences enumerated in
the Bill, now.liabie to the infliction of death, to
the punishment of transportation for not less than
seven years.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL wished to oiler one
single idea to the ,consideration of the House.
Let their Lordships consider what the fact of
transportation for life or for a term of years
really was—it was in point' of fact, upon the
whole, regarded as no punishment. The great
defective point in all the Criminal Law System
of this Country was, that there was no secondary
punishment therein. When that of transportation
was first enacted, perhaps it Was considered as an
infliction little short of death. The convicts were
sent to the burning shores of Africa, or sent to
the. back • settlements of America, where they
were sold as servants, and placed perhaps in a
worse situation than in the other place ;
short, transportation was then looked upon
as worse than death. In the present day the
thing was widely different; for his own part,
he was officially beset with applications from
individuals to go out to New South Wales,
which conveyance they deemed a great bene-
fit and advantage, and numbers who were sent
thither deemed it the best thing that could he
done for them to be sent to Botany Bay. Thus
to increase the practice of temptation, as would
be the effect of the Bill, would be beginning at
the wrong end. The punishment of death, in,
many points of view, it may be well to hold out
in terrorem. He merely threw out those ideas
for the eventual consideration of the-House, not
meaning to offer any thing founded thereon on the
present occasion.

The LORD CHANCELLOR expressed his full
concurrence in the suggestion of his Noble Friend.
The want of some secondary punishment was the
great defect in our Criminal Code. Transporta-
tion, he also thought, was not now regarded as a
punishment ; on the contrary, he believed many
offences were committed in the hope of being
adjudged to transportation. The Learned Judges
were generally
_impressed with these sentiments,
and they felt much difficulty in acting to their
own satisfaction under that defect in the Code.
Such parts of the present Bill as went to increase
the evil alluded to, ought not, he thought, to be
enacted.

Lord. REDESDALE entertained similar senti-
ments ; and he also referred, to the great difficul-
ties which were obtained in effectually prosecut-
ing on account of the enormous expenses. This
he instanced in the case of a poor man who was
robbed of about 601., but who, in prosecuting the
offender to justice, was obliged t expend 1501.,
which would have utterly ruined him had it not
been pursued through the charitably exertions of
his neighbours in his behalf.
Earl BATHURST expressed his doubts' whether
transportation, in the present state of those coun-
tries, could ever be made a ‘good secondary pu-
nishment. Under the present system, when in-
flicted, it soon ceased to be any punishment:—
The most effectual remedy that occurred to him
was, some system of strict discipline in those
countries, which discipline may be on a graduated
system of severity, according to the degree of the
offence committed. alit

The Marquess of LANSDOWN explained at
some length. The Bill was calculated on the
principle that it would more effectually tend' to
the prevention of crimes ; and he observed that
the framers of the Bill felt the impropriety of
doing away the existing severity of punishment
in all those cases where violence against the per-
sons of individuals occurred, and it was with the
view of preventing that species of outrage that.
the extreme punishment was proposed to remain
in all offences of that description.

On the occasion of the third reading of the Bill,
which then took place, the LORD CHANCELLOR
moved the omission of all those provisions above
referred to, which accordingly took place, and
the Bill was then passed.