The Sun.
London, England, 1827-06-23 00:00:00

CORN AVERAGE BILL.

Lord GODERICH moved that the House should resolve
itself into a Committee on. the Corn Average Bill. The
House being in Committee, the Noble Lord stated, that in one
clause he meant to strike out the words " for ascertaining
the rate and amount of duties payable upon," because those
words were inserted in order to make the Bill applicable to
the other Bill which came up from the other House;
and, in order to make the present Bill applicable
to the existing law he should propose to insert the words,
" for duty 'regulating the importing of." In the next
clause he proposed to strike out the words "in bond."
These amendments were agreed to.
Lord FARNHAM then moved, that in one clause the
word " British" should be struck out for the purpose of
inserting " Great Britain and Ireland."
Lord GODERICH had no objection to this, except
that he intended to introduce a proviso at the end of tlu
Bill, which would fully meet the Noble Lord's objection.
Lord FARNHAM assented to the arrangement pro-
posed by Lord Goderich.
Lord FARNHAM then moved that in another clause
the words " England and Wales" should be omitted for the
purpose of introducing the words " Great Britain and Ire-
land."—ln. legislating he considered it of the utmost im-
portance to do what the House professed, namely,
to give' the real prices of corn as they were obtained
,by the grower. (Hear, hear.) This act was intended
by the Government to be permanent, . and therefore it
was most important to have the averages taken
on fair and just principles. He moved the pro
sent amendment, for the purpose of introducing certain
towns in Ireland and Scotland, and it was of the greatest
consequence to. let the truth appear before the pub-
lic. He knew it had given the greatest dissatisfaction to
individuals, both in Scotland 'and. Ireland to find that
when they were told the average prices were a certain
amount, and brought their corn to. the market, they could
get no such money for it ; it was, therefore, that he
wished that 'there might be plain dealing on the Corn
Laws, and that the real average and real duties should
be given. He should also . object to the' clause it,
the Bill which gave the King in Council tilt
power of adding the names of towns at pleasure. The
Noble Lord then read over a list of towns in Scotland and
Ireland, which he should propose to have inserted in the
Bill. -

Lord GODERICH did not mean to argue that theft-
was a conclusive, objection, in principle, to the ad-
ding of towns, either in Scotland or Ireland, t(
the list of those from which the averages were to be taken,
but he thought there was a decided objectiOn to adding
them to this Bill. In his opinion they ought not
to be introduced until they could be introduced in
a measure concurrent with the present. It would
be-. very unreasonable and unwise to introduce then
between ,this period and the time at which the general
laws might be altered. If they were introduced now, lu
felt satisfied, they would have a contrary effect on the ge•
neral law to what those who might press them forward
anticipated. As to the clause alluded to regarding the power
of the King in Council, it seemed to him there was a great
deal in the objection, and he should have no objection
to strike it out. With respect to the introduction
of the words ' " Great Britain and Ireland," where
he had inserted the word " British," he could not but
object to that proposal. It was impossible at present t(.
look forward to the effect that would be produced by
such an alteration. The Noble Lord proposing this
alteration had not, by any means, stated how he
conceived. the machinerf of this Bill would affect Scot-
land and Ireland. It was clear that the average prices
could not be got from towns in Ireland during the first
week before the 15th of August next, and, therefore there
would not be that precision.of calculation which it seemed
the object of all to effect. He, therefore, objected to this
amendment.

The Earl of MALMESBURY supported the amend

inent.

Lord GODERICH explained.
The Earl of MALMESBURY said, that as it appeared
to him, it would be better the Bill was not persevered in.

Lord GODERICH had no objection to drop it.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH was not disposed to conclude
that the admission of Ireland and Scotland would tend t“
raise the averages. On reference to the returns of corn
sold in the inland towns, he found that the amount did not
exceed 1,800,000 or 1,900,000 quarters per annum, mak-
ing the sales per week amount to about 35,000 quarters. If,
therefore, those towns were included where a small quan-
tity of corn was sold at'a high price, it would not raise the
averages more than 2s. per quarter;, but was there the
slightest probability, the least chance, of this act coining
into operation before next session ? He was really disposed
to hope that the Noble Viscount would allow the amend-
ment to pass, because it was important for them this yeas
to ascertain really what the averages were.
. The Earl of HARROWBY entered into a 4,isail of the
present mode of taking the averages, and, caged the neces-
sity of their Lordships agreeing to the proposed alteration.
The Earl of MALAIESBVRY suggested this would be
a good opportunity of trying the effect of such a measure,
and on that view rather wished to persevere, in order to
try what effect would be produced by the introduction of
Ireland and Scotland.

The Duke.of WELLINGTON did not wish to apply
the amendment to the old law, as he thought it would not
be wise to alter• the system of averages; he thought the
Bill might be worded so that the old system would apply to
the old law, and the new system might apply to the new
law to be established next year. He thought also the
chance of fraud was diminished in propurtion as the
number of ,places front which the averages were taken was
increased.

Lord GODERICK wUliag to include the towns in
England, but xyais oat prepared to say that it might not be
found iwracticable to extend the measure to Ireland and
Scotland. He could not see how the amendment of his
Noble Friend could effect the object he had in view,—how
it could effect a prospective change, not in tho present law,
but in a law not vet in existence. ti., believed that in
point of fact, the result as to E;gland would be the same
as it is now. -

The Earl of -11(ASLYN said, if they adopted this
amendment, they would have the benefit of thq change by
way of experiment for eight or nine montb2-
The Duke of WELLINGTON did not wish their Lord-
ships to enter into an alteration of the averages for the
purpose of regulating the importation, but as 1,01. experi-

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meat foil ' ' *..tuelr-7- a.asttrcpll:tilt O.N be introduced
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The EarrOf HARP. 117,7 -1:1•:,_ -.4sted to their Lordships
ev whether it oto4;ble. worth,ttlile to set on foot so tardy
and expensive a system for so short a period, merely for the
sake of experimeot; The salaries of inspectors amounted
to 701. or 80/. per annum each, and would entail a great
expence witheut affording any 'Corresponding benefit.
The Earl of BELMORE .ththight
.tbat if the measure
was extended to Ireland, it would only elfibarrass the sys-
tem. It would be manifestly unjust that the price in
their markets should regnlate the amount of duties in: this
country. •
The Marquis of SALISBURY considered the most im-
portant point in this question was, to adopt that mode
which would give the averages most correctly. His Lord-
ship supported the amentlinent.
Lord FARNHAM was happy that their Lordships had
obtained some concession on the part of the Noble Viscount
(Lord Goderich.) .
: Lord GOD,ERICH admitted that he had no objection
I .
to the principle ofit wide basis; but he thought the ob-
ject of the Noble• Lords Would be better obtained by in-
quiry. (" No, no'! from several Noble Lords.) Through
the medium of the provincial newspapers, and other means,
sufficient information might , he collected, from which their
Lordships could tell at a future time what towns ought to
be selected.

-- ---
The Earl of MALAIESBURY did riot think that the
mode suggested by the Noble Lord would give the House
any real data to proceed upon.
Lord GODERICH did not see how the House was to
become wiser by Monday than at present.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE never remembered a ques-
tion upon which; substantially, both sides of the liou.e
seemed more perfectly agreed. '

. .
The question was then put from the chair, " that the
words England and Wales 'do stand part of the clause."
Upon which the House divided—
Content, 44 I Not Content, 44.
The CHAIRMAN' (the Earl of SHAFTESBURY) gave his
casting vote against the question, which was therefore
negatived. . . .

The Amendment was then put in these words—" Great
Britain and Ireland be inserted ;7, upon which another di-
vieion took place (eight of their Lordship& who had voted
on- the preceding question, having previously left the
llonse) •
Content 37 f Mit content.; '
Majority.against the Amendmenit, 6.

The effect Of these two divisions is, therefore, to exclude
every part of the United Kingdom from the clause.
On our return into the House the Committee was still
sitting, and their Lordships were conversing, as we under-
stood, on the subject of another proposed amendment, in-
troducing words into the Bill to remedy the defect created
by the conflicting decisions which their Lordships had.just
come to.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE suggested that the amend-
ment be proposed to-morrow.
' Lord GODERICH thought it better to move it on the
third reading of the Bill:.
Ultimately, however, it was agreed that the Chairman
should report progress, that the Committee sit again.
to-
morrow, and the Bill be read a third time on Monday.
Sir ALEXANDER•GRANT and others, from the Com-
mons, brought up the Warehoused Corn Bill, the Exche-
quer Bills' Bill, and the Excise Laws' Consolidation Bill.