The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-31 00:00:00

,ss
lir. .1 .1. , NM' ! asked the FUght Honourable Baronet
.r of the present position et the affairs of New
Zea'and •
Sir R PEEL sa;d that this was not the time to enter into
a discussion of that subject. If the Honourable Gentleman
was desirous to open ep the matter afresh, he would have an-
other opportunity for that purpose.
Mr. HOPE said that the present vote had nothing to do
with the matter to which the Ho,,nurable Gentleman alluded.
Mr. ROEBUCK said that this was the last colony which
should be dependant upon them' for support. If a little care
were taken in its management, such a vote as the present would
be altrefether unnecessary. It would be able to maintain itself.
vrqul,l recommend, in New Zealand, shst he would call a
politics survey by properly appointed per-ons, and in every
district so surveyed, a power to be granted to every one,
whether white or black, to register him-elf, with the view of
voting, and when the country was so parcelled out into
counties, and not into states, he would recommend a general
representative sy-tem. Let not this grz.at question resolve
itself into a petty squabble between the Colonial Government
and the New Zealand Company, but exercise a broad and
comprehensive principle ; and then there would be an end to
those painful discussions which had lately occupied the time

of the Ilou,e.
Mr. H UNIE said that the way in which our colonists had
b.er► treat. d all over the world required that Parliament
should pass ,sn'Aet deatring what.rights should be enjoyed by
the seitlrrs in our colonies. He recollected the high hopes

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that were excited, a few years ago, when that colony was first
settled, and he was mach grieted since to find the evils
which had clouded them, and disappointed so many. All
the mischief, all the petty quarrelling and division
in the culnny had arisen from the meddling of the Horne-office.
He thought that no good could take place until the rights of
tit:, colonists were properly defined, and a settled form of go-
vernment conceded. The United States of America managed
their colonies in a different way. When they colonised a tract
of country, they had it surveyed and mapped out, and the set-
tlers had a valid title given to them to the tracts of land allotted.
Had this been done in New Zealand, a great deal of the evils
which had overtaken that colony would have been avoided. He
implored the Right Hon. Baronet to interfere and make a pro-
per settlement of the question, as nn one trusted the Noble
Lord at the head of the Colonial department. He alone was
able to do it, and restore the colony to a state of prosperity and
security. He called upon the Right Hon. Baronet to step out
and take some decisive course for benefiting the colonies. The
Right Hon. Baronet was the only one who could do it, and he
reminded the Right Hon. Baronet that he who tolerated, par-
ticipated. Repeating his hope that the Right Hon. Baronet
would adopt decided measures, the Hon. Member concluded by
declarin, his intention to oppose the v ,t-.
Mr. SHELL trams! many of the evils which had fallen upon
New Zealand to the Colonial-office. True, Capt. Fitzroy had
committed numerous errnrs, but upon the vicarions hacc of
Capt. Fitzroy all the chasti.ernent ought not to fall ; for who
had appointed Capt. Fitzroy but the Colonial Department,
and should not the Noble Lord at the head of that office have
satisfied himself of the qualifications of Capt. Fitzroy previous
to his appointment ? lie would not doubt that Lord Stanley
was influent-d by huinaae motives towards the New Zealanders
in the policy which he adopted towards them; he would
not doubt that it was cot si lered by the Government.
that the tre ay of W ii,angi would conduce to the happi .ess of
the natives. But Lord tstsnley deceived himself as to the ca-
pabilities of the New Zealander., who had strong clams to
his euirmiieealinn. Let them look at the resuli which the

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policy of that Noble LoJI had wrought on tlse minds of the
New Z •alanders. They were toll by the principal protector
of the aburigkes that, notwithstand,ng the interpretation of
the treaty of 'Waitangi, they held the Governmnat of this
country is scorn. It was, therefore, manifest that a great
char 2, was necessary, that small doses had no effect, that em-
pirical and homcelpathic prescriptions did not suit. Korora-
rika was reduced to the !tate of Old Sarum. The Govern-

sent Might think that the decision of Lord Stanley was irre-
voeab'e, but they woul.l find that this was a mistake. The
Committee which was appointed by the Government to make a
rapier were two-thirds ionises and cue-third Whigs. On that
ColannUtee they put members of the Government—embryo
Ministers. V. 19 great majority of the Committee were sup-
porters of the Government, several of them members of the
Government. and he was quite surprised to fled that their re-
port had be ei dismissed with utter disregard. The object of
bis observetione was to show that great mstakes had been com-
mitted, and to show them that if they were not prepared to go
the whole length with the C •mmittee, that it would bite right
that the Right Honourable Baronet should use his influence in
inducing Lord Stanley to redress the grtevances which had
been complained of. He would b the la• t man to say that Lord
Stanley ought to be ta red with disrasaect ; but if he (Lord
Stanley) were ever so catm, and ever .o enlightened, he would
venture to say that to him ( Lord S' an ey) N,w Zealand ought
not to he subject. and that the preservation of that great posses-
sion of the English Crown ought to be better regard d.
Se- R. PEEL was sorry hat the Right Hon. Gentleman
bad deprived himself of the odportunity of making that
speech on a former occasion. He. at the same time, sympa-
thised with the disappointment which he ( Mr. Shell) woull
have been exii.ised to, if he had lost this opportunity of making
it.. The discussion on the matter had already taken place,
and lasted tat) nights, arid he ( air R. Peel) would have
been rather better prepares to meet these observations on the
'second opportunity. He ehoutd net be prevailed upon, on this
. occasion, to enter into any discussion with respect to the
nutter. He couid nt do that which even it was painful to
biro not to do, nami-ly, to enter into a deft:nee of the Noble
Lord ( Stanley), and repel those act:l33,6,ms which had been
most unjustly cast upon him, without affording an opportunity
• fur another discussion, which he was desirous to avoid. He
tiioiight that he had done everything in his power already
to vindicate his Noble Friend, and that he had succeeded.
Now, the- Right Hon. Gentleman said that the Noble
Lord should be held responsible for the appointment of Captain
Fezrey. He ( Sir R. Peel) was of opinion that he was tech-
weedy and constitutionally responsible, but he did not think
that lie Ras to be considered as culpable for every act com-
mitted by Captain Fitzroy. Was the Member for London to
be held responsible for every act of Messrs. Spain and Hodg-
son, wiiorn he had apvointed?—( Hear, hear.) In the eyes of
the 1-iw, the Noble Lord was responsible for the appointment
of Captain Fitzroy, but would he be considered responsible for
every act of his by a person not looking technically at the mat
ter? He ( Sir R. Peel) took the case of the militia. Captain
Fitzroy got orders to raise a militia, but he did not act in ac-
- cordanee with those instructions. Was hie Noble Friend to be
held respiansi'ele fur Captain Fitzroy', non-observance of his
orders? Captain Fitzroy declined to obey the instructions
given him under mistaken views, and he thought the responsibi-
lity shield( rest with himself. Never was a man appointed upon
more pure or mere disinterested motives—he was thought to be
the mast clever man for the performance of the duties assigned
to him. He was surprised that a man who had distinguished
himself in that Ileuse, should have acted so. He was selected
because he was believed to be well qualified to discharge
the dwies which would devolve upon him. lie would not
enter any further into that question, because he thought it
might give rise to an untimely discussion. With respect to
municipal in-titutions. they should, he thought, choose the
largest t wn in a district, and incorporate Leith that town as
large a dirt riot as pt;ssible. The natives resident within that
district should, of course, have the advantages of British sub-
jects.—(Hear. hear.) He thought that at present the law
provided that every male of 21 years of age had a right to
vote. It was necessary that the body which was entrusted
with the powers of taxation should have as extenive powers as
was consistent. Ile thought that the municipal Government
should have as extensive powers as were consistent with a
superior legislative body. There ought not to be different
principles of legislation in different parts of the country. The
constitution of this superior power was a matter of the greatest
imp ataner. The gevermea body ought to represent the
nublie opinion of the colony. It ought to have an influence
over the governing body. In what mode that could be arrived
at he would not lay down any precise rule. It would greatly
depend on the iertividual whom they would appoint as go-
vernor to th it colony. He would not go any further into the
subject thrOugh the f ar that he might provoke that discussion
which he was so desirous to avoid.
Mr. HAWES believed that if a negotiation was once insti-
tuted between abt.e-and upright men, representing the interests
of the colony and the Government, they would arrive at some
sat ii.fectory
Mr. C. BULLER said that he was glad t hear that nego-
tiation, between the different interests weer . ow taking place,
and he would be exceedingly disappointed if they did not meet
with the ben• float result. which he ant ieiosted. He wished to
call the attention of the House to the • stivnate now before them.
His olae Friends at tie sate of the Hoist- would see that he
objected as touch as possible to the expenditure which had
beets incurred in the eel ,vies. The lion. Gentleman then
alluded to the estim ars of Captain Fitzroy He estimated that
the expenditure of the present year was 36,000/. ; but that the
expenditure of next year would be 26,000/. His calculation of
the revenue was molest, but it w is. nevertheless, fallacious.
He made out that the income derived from the property-tax
would amount to 8,0001., but the return for the last two
qua; teas would show that it would not amount to 4,000/. The
Honourable Gentleman then complained of the salaries given
to individuals employed in the Government of that colony, anti
said that toe Government ought to be enabled to pay salaries
which individuals had a right to expect fir their services.
Mr. AG LION BY was rejoiced that an explanation had been
given by the Hon. Baronet, of the intention of her Majesty's
Government towards New Zealand and he hoped and believed
that the resit would be to make Neat Zealand a self-support-
ing colony.
Lad EBRINGTON was glad that some prospect of as
agreement between the Company and the Government was
likely. He thought, however, that they would not arrive at
any beneficial result until the Government laid down some defi•
nite awl intelligible principle with regard to the management
of the waste lands in New Zealand.
Mr. HOPE explained.
Mr. wILLI A NIS said that he thought that this vote was to
be opposed, but now that the Gentlemen laail got possession of
a million acres in New Zealand, they were anxious that as
much money as possible should be expended on them. He had
no doubt that it the session lasted much longer, the Secretary
for the Colonies would come down with a supplementary vote
for New Zealand ; he begged to know if such was not his in-

tention.
31r HOPE stated that he bad already said that the accounts
sen
re ct by
ompp Captain Fitzroy were so vague that the Government
d to form false estimates upon these financial
we
statements.
Captain OSI3ORNE said that the present vote had nothing
to do with the tarnil, qusrrel between the New Zealand Com-
pany and the Colonial-office. With reference to the imme-
diate vote, he must say that it was too small, and on that
ground aiotm be would oppose it.
Mr. HINDLEY said, that since the Bishop Of New Zea-
land had gone out the peace of the colony had not been im-
proved, but rather the reverse.
Ailmi,al I)UNDA deteaded the Bishop of New Zealand.
He knew no Insn who did his duty better, or was of greater
benefit to that colony.
Mr. A FlEi. s ITH concurred in that opinion. The
Bi.hop of New Zealand was deserving of the highest respect
f,,r his crinduct since his arrival in the colony.
. r. HOPE, in an .ewer to a question from Captain Os-
borne. sail, that the salary of the Governor of N. w Zea-
land would be raised from 1,2001. to 2,5001; but it was not
cor.!ent -lilted that that should he a permanent arrangement._
After a few words from \lr. PROTHEROE HINDLICY
Mr. A GLION BY said that the New Zaland Company
had always granted ae'istance to any religious denomination
that req.::red it in the colony ; and as the Protestants were
more numerous than any other class of religionists, of course
they received the largest am,unt of assistance.
The vote was then agreed to.
1.500/. was granted fur the Health of Towns Commission,
u were also
3,4001. for the expenses of the " Digest of the Statutes" of
the Common Law Cammissi n.
6,000/. tor the expenses of towns survey of Ireland.
. On 2,597 i. being proposed to defray the expenses of the im-
provement of the river Shannon,
Colonel SIIsTHORF objected to the vote. He considered
it was a waste of the public money. The Hon. Gentleman en-
tired minutely into the history of these improvements, and con-
cluded by stating that it was a mere job for the improvement of
the properties of two Noble Lords, the Marquis of Lansdowne
sod Lord Monteagle.
Captain OSBORNE—Does the Hon. Gentleman say the
properties of the Marquis of Lansdowne and Lord Monteagle ?
Colonel SIBTHORP— —(Laughter. )
Captain OSBORNE said that the Marquis of Lansdowne
bad no property on the Nhannon, neither, he believed, had
Lord Monteagle.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was happy to
assure his Hon tend that the mune; had been well apple d,
sad was productive of the greatest possible benefit to the public.