The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-25 00:00:00

'ion of the Right Hon. Gentleman himself? was it not 'v-'-
hurtful to that great empire, of which so large
eof
conided to his care? was it not most hurtful to the dignity.
that House, that upon a great question, in which E inary.ln_
a pottiOr
terests were involved, a Minister of the Crown was placed Ite ;
situation to held such language and to make such aracnchnentspi
A few short months might bring the Right Ilon• B3r°,he
to the e istressirig alternative of asserting trtl
House that " I was wrong before, and
not ight tow."—( Cheers. ) The Right flover;•es
Baronet had needlessly and wantonly renewed difficual.,
which were passing away. If they have given to the shente
form and substance, it is not our faults. You (said the to
Lori) fought with me inch by inch when I asked of you
ea
will,
this much of concession to the Irish people. p° 15f„yee.
will, you carnet govern the people of Ireland as heretofore'
-
For my par', I shall support the amendment.—(CheAers'ifeeece_
Mr. HAMILTON opposed the resolution. ea rei ;this
had been made to the Blue-book, and he had also made
re-
business to refer to that Blue-ho ,k, and he found that the ,b
presentations which had been made of the state of the tort,'
Church were entirely incorrect. He found, by that oarroas
that there were . eighty-two benefices in Ireland. " eaa
aware that a distinction was drawn between parishes te
benefices—( Hear, hear)—but he found that a great differ-enae
existed between the representations of the Roman CatiGlo.
Gen-
party and those who were opposed to them. The Haul a the
tleman then went into a series of statements respect-4'pp-
number and the value of the benefices in the hands of the at
testant Irish clergy, in order to show that the means atiegthe
derived from the benefices and from the parishes possesse"; the
Protestant clergy were only moderate remunerations I;ttein
duties they had to perform. He believed that the proltotso
of Christian truth was not to be effected by merely
lisbeit
means, and he thought that the success of the Irish Esti' Thee
Church was not te be charged upon it as a eficience.
had no mean for rendering the Irish Church Establis°,l"9.
available for its purpose, and if they considered that this
tablishment was to be answerable for its effects, he would, ft
what had been the effects of the Educational Commission'
fed 'a
was well known that the Educational Commission had -a otiett
effecting all that it desired, and he thought that the P,rtasse
of Christianity was not to be effected by any merely ",-orteg
means. They had heard a great deal of restitution u,
that debate.—(Hear, hear.) But what was the case .
the time the Irish Church obtained those endowments'tou.
not in connexion with the Church of Rome. Until that the
flexion had been formed, there had been no question
_kits ttti to •
Possession or the use of the revenues which were eta' had
the Church. In the time of Henry 11., this conneliunt the
been formed, and had continued for three centuries' hat!. uot
Reformation this connexion had been broken, and it a''tr
until all hope had been gone and the allegiance of
them
lationof Ireland was lost to Rome that the Pope bad sae&
to establish any other Church. Much 11!ditelsodl
rrol
said of the injury offered to the Roman Catholics loan
but he thought that something should be made of tbe 'sot.
offered to the feelings of the Protestant inhabitants of Irmooe be
The Protestants had always been the main dependetel/
might call them the gat rison of the Government in Irv"-„rthe
(Ironical cheers.) In 1835, at the request of the Minister ;eat'
day, the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Goeernt die
the Protestants of Ireland had readily and in a Inatle.,/1-recel.
solved a confederacy which was dear to them from 101113„,' aea'
lections, and in which their prejudices had been intel-a-1111'
He did not wish to speak harshly of the Members °,e,," srs
jesty's Government, but he thought it was his dute "'toe,
them of trifling with the feelings of their Irish fellow Prute6,laold
They would, in such a case, find that Protestants
rhos
league themselves with repealers_( Hear, hear )—o %, al e°,
would be as bad, they would see party conflicts-AOOO
naturally exulting in the triumph of their own Churoneee
their own party, and the other bitterly regretting all caithel
sions made to the rival party, and determined, as ltros-e. Ore
could, to thwart any such intentions on the part ot •ef tee
vernment.—(Cheers.) These would be the fruits °we/
motion of' the Hon. Member for Sheffield, if it were„ of alla
—a measure, the result of which would be a subver",°,a-tioo0;
good feeling, and the substitute of the opposite; eseo ea'
the one hand on account of these concessions being °PCitlets
the antagonist feeling ; on the other side, of deep and
"
regret and poignant disappointment. —( Cheers.) d sot
Mr. 13. OSBORNE expressed his sorrow that hexing tbs
had an opportunity at an earlier period of addreblarat
House on that subject. He had, however, listened tag
attention to the debate, and he could not avoid exer7to
the
doubt that it would exhibit an unsatisfactory seectsr.aear tllel
admirers of academic rule and of academic education', .-oitie*
would find the Members who represented the Unitrh-ie cope
die'
with but one exception, to a man disinclined to gr." •
cession to Ireland, and disposed to battle—nay, to
breach ere the measure should be carried.—(Hear' lira the
Hon. Gentleman who had last spoken. and who t
presentative of a decreasing party in Ireland—he,,t n
," et
Orange party—had threatened the Right Hon• be.-
the enmity of his party—if he persevered in his intentious
threatened to amalgamate with the repeaters.
Mr. HAMILTON explained. it Issi
Mr. OSBORNE would accept the explanation %, spoij
given, but when the Hon. Member lauded the patriuttliues
loyalty of the Protestants, and referred them to the o'ato
Archbishop Hunter, he (Mr. Osborne) would earl '4l the
still earlier period. He would take him to that periour'reeel'
history of Ireland when Protestants were the abetters °vole°
lion, when Wolfe Tone and other Protestants were the of pre'
of rebellion, and, therefore, he raid, away with the cry °Athol::
testant integrity and Protestant loyalty The Ruarriaval t't
subjects of Ireland, he would aver, were ae,'eere.) tea
most Protestant Members in that House.--(l"reasie-e
the Honourable Member had but made himself 2-;otbt,bol
with the principles inculcated at the College of lgeY.,nbieh Pp)
would not have joined in raising the senseless cry -oseore-st
been heard against that Catholic seminary. He f Igr'saeocetn.
was much struck with the speech of the Right H°ll_,;,,,eag
the head of her Majesty's Government on the Prat oecasn'a-y
ing. The Right Hon. Baronet appeared, °D.,.0 co usual
to be more engaged in the task of defending his .. bis `,l to
than the character of the Irish Church, aedt eferree
ech, r • Wl'
adroitness, he, in the after-part of his sPe as'ne,
O'Connell and to the Oregon territory—to everete•lftete O'er;
but the real question before the House, which he tie balks
board altogether.—( Hear, hear.) He held in "I of te.t
paper containing the recorded opinions of three.l,ot 39:„
Right Honourable Baronet's friends—men of great tl";,fer
filling a high position—and the first he should ;ollr
would be Lord Brougham.—(Laughter.) He was Ila";.,
posed to be of the same party with the Right Hon. 1351,-•ergt
1
(Continued laughter.) That Noble Lord said, in sPes'eltAtre"
the Establishment in Ireland, " God forbid that thexeelitals
should have the same power over its property that inulyeeers
had over theirs," and he argued that the Church re sobe
might be legally applied to the purposes of educatiTodedt°,
State might think fit. The Hon. Gentleman had 11 toe
the subject of compact, as known and acted on at the. ihs
th...19•4e, is
the Union. What was the Act of Union? It, was
representatives of a small minority of the Irish 13.7.005 ti
order that their Churca should be perpetuated, an,ibleetieS °,l
quence of certain pecuniary reasons sold the Wu
the Irish nation and the Irish Church. -to 04,,,
cheers.) He asked if the Government were or COI;
upon precedent, why that which was thought goodhphoe
should not be good for Ireland also 2—( Cheers.) " (flesr'
not the same principle be applied in both conntries•; rrotes,
hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the ratite;
Department seemed, in his speech of last night' t°„htspotber!:),4
misrepresented the opinions entertained by Hon. 0•"" dew-
f
that side of the House• He seemed to think that aloo
the entire subversion of the Irish Church. He eodi,,
for himself, and he knew that he could answer for 1ne".„4,0
that they desired no such thing. But they could
that Church had tried to fulfil the expectations 00,00.0 tb a
had been originally founded. He could inform the not Is
in Ireland there were 218 parishes which eontsin„Toreht soo
Protestant.—( Hear.) 723 parishes had not one ',nag" Pv
consequently no service at all.—( Hear, hear.) Ile; n°l3l;
then help lamenting the ignorance exhibited eichorej
Members respecting the usefulness of the F.stablishe
aeoeree
in Ireland.—( Cheers.) The Hon. Member had endeeseektba,l
to carry the House with him by referring to what he glee) 'I;
glorious period of the reformation. Why, the refer ad bree-;
never taken place in Ireland.—(Cheers. ) There had t
indeed, a revolution at the time, but no change "t gad .se
place in the opinions of the people. 'f he Govertnnen the Itir,l
monarch of that day wanted to seize the revenues o.r .
for "'O
Church, and this reformation afforded a good colourit welt,
purpose.—( Hear, hear.) How was that Reformeaitee ;aloof
out ? In James the First's time the
ordered to be translated into Irish, and 1121;4: its
was preserved of a person complaining, that in ""'a 10,:d
Elizabeth they had English nobles' and Irish ministerlles -
the time of succeeding monarchs, they had Irish irto ineb
English ministers.—(Laughter). He was prepared e 114
tion, on the authority of the very work quoted bye eses bs
Hon. Baronet the Secretary for Ireland, that ther.
similarity between the Irish and the English Churehte; of {the
English Church held its temporalities with the sanet ste
great body of the English people. That was not the emoteoNe
the Irish Church. There existed also a vast difference taa,t,
the doctrines of the churches. The work observed
religion of the Irish Church was a species of 5-_,TI ter
rather than Protestantism. The Church preach
morality quite opposed to the liberal tenets °Y :,,isterste
Divines. What was the language of some of the 11""peewh'e
the Protestant Church in Ireland ? The Right Bev'
said that the penal laws were for the -benePt, °o'ets,... 1
Papists.—( Hear, hear.) What was their conduela,t
the Right Hon. Baronet when he brought in his e°7ll•ltait-e
measures? Their language was only worthy of EfAe.easitt't
and their exclusive University of Dublin. He volt— eO-..ano
House if it had ever produced one great man, or one 0:""
sne tbe
writer ?—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Perhaps t
might be given them by the Noble "'"' etel°-r;t
Member far Bandon—some little ministerA peter g
in his little sphere, but one name worthy of note ba",ig ban is
emanated from the Dublin University. He held in Ace ire
Government pamphlet, issued from the Government 01a teat
Dublin, and entitled " Probate of Wills," and be n°o it hi
the liberty of reading the whole of it to the House' „ left 'of
not very long, to show the amount of Church PrOera'eri4, ;0
some of the Church dignitaries within the limited tete° ;0
forty or fifty years. He found, among other facts s...etty '
it, that the Lord Bishop of Cork left at his deceive P%O
the amount of
ThhhThh
eeeee
Bishop
Archbishop
ehhhhhoooobppppi
-0000hffff
KDpT
urloioaif m
Limericko r e
6002,
T
Dublin
T
• " 100,0 vi:„
aloe
......... 1m
... 25,2501::000,100000‘ Vu
The Bishop of Raphoe
300
The Archbishop of Armagh
The Bishop of Clogher
The Bishop of Cashel
oas tbe
In all an amount of ........ . ...... la -el
And all this amount, be it; remembered, collected bese.ot
space of forty or fitty years.—(Cries of " Hear' toe tae
to. heitel
They had heard various allusions to their not wishing
property from the Protestant Church. He did 10v .t 000
that they wished to take it, nor was it his wish that 'hoed ;le
be done, but he wished that that Church should be fore tbe
a better footing. Dr. Do3le, in an examination) het for t,g
House of Lords, stated that he had a greater reseef defers-
ootY
Established Church than any other Church which roe e
from the See of Rome, but that he thought that the to the
was as prejudicial to the Established Church as it to-sincerer',
Irish people. He remembered the days when 3 otttfd
was put in Coventry because he agreed in ornetriessae',
wi,h Mr. O'Connell; and now they were sendinkeo, oe,
of peace to Ireland, and dragging at the chariot-wristt tble
convicted conspirator.—( Cheers. ) He thought er or%
were very few Honourable Gentlemen at that or the o""„teter_
I In' OP
of the House who would be inclined to agree with ) chit
extracted under such conditions. ( Hear, hes' 'a Po-ts
a late occasion, when he (Mr. Gaborne,4e Pt,
the honour of addressing the House, it ,„ atroltel
intention to have voted against the Hon. Gentleman ~.,,bjec.
Con, not because he objected to the grant, but heioesientra
that it should be taken out of the consolidated fund, being,sr;
as the people of this country objected to their money fie ty
plied to the objects of the Roman Catholic Church' sr-so
very much shaken in that intention when he heartflotir 11310;
tntt
of the Hon. Member for Kent, who dealt out da
his Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen.—(Laughter:A by t
was what first altered his opinion.l It was succeed
Oft s°' f
Hon. Member for Elgin, who claimed the herdilloou M ein her °
of
e
of Birmingham Pope—(Laughter)—instead of a furths 0
the Senate, and pronounced the religion of three-tie Lou_
the population of Europe to be an awful delusion., rite'
not countenance such a gross insult to the Roman Li
hes ttert° 0
ligion. Ile would tell the Hon. Gentleman that it was, -fie
insane in his charity than rational in his malice. thet petit:
refer him to: what was said by Burke, that
was he most
sensed altogether from the Christian religion eed
stint. He would put it to any dispassionate Men'