The Sun.
London, England, 1827-02-17 00:00:00

bited at the close of the current year. He saw no reason why
there should be such a variance, or why there should not be laid
before the House a statement of the expences of the year with
accuracy—with more accuracy, at least, than should admit of
so large a defalcation, as upon the face of the accounts now ap-
peared. He wished to know if any additional sum would be re-
quired to meet the deficiencies he had noticed ?—whether it was
intended to put up another portion of the Dead Weight for
sale ?—or was it intended to impose new taxes ? For to
either of these modes must the Government resort if they in-
tended to keep up so great an expenditure as that of last year.—
He condemned the sale of the portion of it to the Bank that had
been sold, and for this reason, among others, because he thought
the Bank, from the relation in which they stood to the Govern-
ment, the very worst purchaser that could be found for it. As
to the imposition of taxes, he apprehended that in the present
state of the country, it was not in contemplation—yet it was an
alternative not more dangerous and to be avoided than the mea-
sure he referred to. Again, he begged to call on• the Chancellor
of the Exchequer to explain what were his intentions as to the
Dead Weight, the Sinking Fund, and the Taxes? The House
should not be called on to vote the Estimates in the embarrassed
financial situation of the country ; in the distress which prevailed;
and in the ignorance in which they were placed, as to the re-
sources from which these Estimates were to be drawn. He did
not appear there to embarrass the Government, but to watch over
the voting of those Estimates, which were generally too little at-
tended to by Hon. Members. Large sums were voted in very
thin Houses, which would not be so lavishly applied, if Hon.
Members paid more attention to this important part of their Par-
liamentary duty. The Navy Estimates were already voted, on a
large scale. He besought- the most rigorous inspection of the
House of Commons to those which remained—the Ordnance, the
Military, and the Colonial ; especially to the two latter.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
felt himself placed in considerable difficulty by the question put to
him, and the inquiries made by the Honourable Member. It was
not from any unwillingness to give the fullest information in his
power on these topics, but he could not do so now without giving
a partial explanation upon them, as he was net prepared to bring
before the House other subjects intimately and necessarily con-
nected with them. As he could not at that moment bring the
whole financial state of the country fully before the House, it would
be unfair to all parties to enter into partial discussions,which might
convey erroneous impressions. It was bis anxious wish, during
the period that he held the office of the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, to bring forward the consideration of the financial state of
the country at as early a period of the Session as possible. He
hoped shortly to bring it forward, but, at present, he owned he
was not in a situation to do so. When he should bring it
forward, he hoped to furnish a full and satisfactory explanation
on all the matters referred to by the Honourable Gentleman. But
beeause he was not at that moment prepared to enter into
the extensive subject, was that, he would ask, a fair rea-
son, in the present situation of the country, why a shilling
should not be voted for the support of a single sailor, a
single soldier, or a single artillery-man.--(Hear, hear, hear.)—
Although it was not his intention at present to enter into any
minute explanation of the state of our finances, there were some
points in the Hon. Gentleman's statement on which he would
make a few remarks. The Hon. Member had taken a very im-
perfect view of the subject. He (the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer) did not deny, that on the face of the balance paper, instead
of there being a surplus for the year to the amount of four or five
millions, which he had flattered himself there would have been, it
appeared that the surplus was little more than one million. There
could be no doubt that that was the case, and he very much regret-
ted it. If, however, the Honourable Gentleman was war-
ranted in arguing as he had done on the defalcation of the pre-
sent year, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was undoubtedly
entitled to ask the House to recollect what had been the state
of the balance-sheet in preceding years. In 1823 he had antici-
pated a surplus of only 5,000,000/. the result, however was,
that the surplus was no less than 6,700,000/. ; so that in that
year the fact had outgone his anticipation of it by 1,700,000/. In
the next year, 1824, he had stated that it was reasonable to
expect that the surplus would be the same that he had antici-
pated in the year preceding ; but it exceeded that amount by
1,400,000/. In the year 1825 the surplus exceeded his antici-
pation by 160,000/. In the three years the actual surplus of the
revenue over the expenditure had exceeded his estimate of it in
that House by upwards of three millions. The fair thing was to
take a view of all the years together. That indeed was the course
Which he originally asked the House and the country to pursue.
In 1824, he had submitted to Parliament the expediency of view-
ing the probable circumstances of the country through a series of
years. Looking at the question in this point of view; regarding
the series of years during which he had had the honour to hold his
present situation, be thought it would not be considered that the an-
ticipations which he had ventured to make with respect to the
finances of the country justly deserved to be called excessive.-L-
Thus taking all the years, the deficiency of four millions and a
half in the present year on which the Honourable Member for
Abingdon had dwelt, must be reduced by the three millions of
surplus in the antecedent years. Let the House read the balAnce
sheets of all the years, and they would find that deducting the sur-
plus of three millions in former years from the deficiency of four
millions and a half in the present, would leave the actual defi-
ciency in the series of years only a million and 'a half, instead
of four millions and a half —There was another point to which
the Honourable Member had adverted,and on which he (the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer) wished to say a few words. In these
balance-sheets certain sums were introduced which necessarily
appeared to belong to the expenditure ; but which were only
advances made by Government in pursuance of Acts of Parlia-
ment, and which advances would of course be eventually re-
iptaeint
olff
thisthe Hdoonso.rNipletimoobewr fiothr Aalblintgdhoonaowcoourladcygowhthiorhouigth
was
well known he possessed ;---if he examined both sides of the
account, for the last four years, and compared the sums which
had been thus advanced by Government with the sums which
had been repaid, h
having been only
Exchequer) had contended for, it had been considerably
wouldasthead-
vance tehree womulidllio findos , that
whioh insteadhe(th of
fthe
Chancellor surplus
of
the
t
proveeonoetrchae :hat, even taking the last
He even at
laisttems.Onew
year into the calcula-
tion been no deficiency at all. This was a fact which
jubtieonrsh,e'and h
ou
h therel be perfectly ready to whenever
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tunitysceen
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arrive
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uraf thatfith,
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sumof 24
purpose.
e
of the Leith Docks, with the dues arising from them ;—a great
and beneficial national object. The greater part, if not the
whole of this sum, would he eventually repaid. Now that could
07e. r
for a proper
he purchase snot, in the strict sense of the word, be called an expense,
because
the !urn which had been advanced bore an interest, and because
the principal would revert to the count'l-' The Duke of Athol's
annuity was the next item of this description which he would
notice., It was well known that the family of the Duke of Athol
had ancient claims on the revenue of the Isle of Man. In the
year 1605, an Act of Parliament passed, by which a pension was
granted to the Duke of Athol, for a surrender of a part of these
claims ; he retaining a portion of the duties paid in the Island.—
Subsequently, the duties paid in the Island were considerably in-
creased. The Duke of Athol, however, was not entitled to any
share of the increased rate of duty. But this was felt to be an
exceedingly inconvenient state of things. He did not know that
it occasioned any inconvenience to his Grace, but to the Treasury
it was the source of much embarrassment and difficulty; and it
was thought desirable to simplify matters by purchasing from the
Duke of Athol the right he claimed to a certain part
of the Revenue of the Island. The Duke naturally felt
indisposed to part with his right except upon terms commensurate
with its value. An Act of Parliament was passed enabling the
Lords of the Treasury to come to an agreement with his Grace,
and referees were appointed. The referee on the part of the Crown
was a man of the highest character; once a distinguished Mem-
ber of that House, and now holding an important official situation
in the other House of Parliament ; he meant Mr. William Cour-
tenay, whose honourable character and habits of business rendered
him an excellent choice on the part of the Treasury. The re-
ferees met, and minutely discussed the subject; and, after various
elaborate calculations, determined that 150,000/. was the value of
the annuity which the Duke of Athol derived from the duties of
the Isle of Man. The present times were unprosperous ; but
nevertheless in the present year this 150,000/. was bringing
in au improving revenue, and was now paying five per cent.
He repeated, therefore, that this could not be called an item
of expenditure in the ordinary meaning of the expression.
Then there was the money advanced in pursuance of an Act of
Parliament to the Corporation of London to assist in building Lon-
don Bridge. That stood on just the same ground. It was
impossible for him at the beginning of the year, before the Cor-
poration of London knew what would be the expence of the
undertaking, and whether it would be necessary for them to en-
force the provisions of the Act by calling on the Treasury to ad-
vance them a loan on the credit of the Orphans' Fund, to intro-
duce to Parliament any estimate on this subject. In fact the City
of London would never have applied to the Treasury for pecuniary
aid for this purpose, had it not been for the peculiar circumstances
which last year attended all money transactions, and drove them to
the wall when they endeavoured to obtain the requisite supply else-
where. For the sum advanced by the Treasury on this account,
they had the tangible property of the City of London pledged to
them as security ; and until the repayment of the principal, interest
of between two and three per cent. per annum. This item,

therefore, did not belong to what was ordinarily called expendi-
ture, The advances of the Commissioners of Exchequer Bills in
England, and of the Commissioners of the Consolidated Fund is
Ireland, came under the same rule. But with all the labour and
ingenuity by which the Honourable Member for Abingdon was so
eminently distinguished, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
defied him to anticipate at the beginning of the year what the
amount of those advances would be. Here was the hardship of
his case. The Hon. Gent. always considered it desirable that the
financial state of the country should be detailed in the begin-
ning of the year, a practice which he (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) always objected to. But it was very hard
that the Hon. Gentleman having called for this financial statement,
at the beginning of the year, should then (to use a favourite phrase
of his) turn round and reproach him (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer), for not having anticipated that of which it was utterly
impossible he could have any nowledge previous to its occurrence.
The Hon. Gentleman complained, that whereas he (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) had estimated the expense of the army, &c. for
the last year, at 7,747,0001. ; it had actually amounted to
8,297,000/. That was perfectly true; but how did it happen ?
All that he could possibly do at the commencement of a Session
was, to state to the House the sum which he thought it would be
expedient to vote in the supply. It was, however, utterly im-
possible that all the money voted in the supply for the year
should be drawn in that year ; for a great part of that supply
was applicable to services in distant parts of the world, and
could not be comprehended in any limited period. A great
part of the 8,297,0001. was on account of grants of antecedent
years. It also happened that in 1826 the services were paid
more rapidly than was usual. At the close of the year, a state
of political circumstances arose which rendered it necessary to
draw out money for the services of the year more rapidly
than ordinary. Had it not been for the armament which had
occurred, the balance sheet on the table would have presented a
very different appearance. It was also clear that in exact propor-
tion as the payments in 1826 for the army had been rapid, the
grants remaining to be disposed of had decreased. It was the
same with the navy and the ordnance. As to the miscellaneous
estimates, they were made up partly of the grants of former years
which became payable in the year, and partly of grants within the
year. The difference between the estimate and the sums actually
paid was not considerable. It amounted only to about 100,000/.,
and although he did not pretend to assume any great credit for
that quality, he really did not think that it was any reproach to his
foresight that he had not been nearer in his anticipation. The
Honourable Member for Abingdon had then fallen upon all
his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) errors with respect
to the estimated receipt of the year. It was perfectly true
he had been too sanguine ; it would be absurd to deny it ;
he had expected the revenue would be more productive
than it had turned out to be. But the Honourable Member
had not quite fairly argued this subject. He (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) had anticipated that in the year 1826
the Customs and Excise together would yield 36,846,000/. The
actual produce had been 36,450,000?.; being about 400,0001.
less than he had anticipated. Now really such a difference on a
revenue of nearly thirty-seven millions, between the estimate and
the produce, that estimate too framed under circumstances of con-
siderable difficulty, and which baffled all attempts at rigid calcula-
tion, was comparatively speaking so small, that upon his word,
if he did not know that a prophet had no honour in his own
country, he should be tempted to claim credit for his accuracy, in-
stead of admitting the justice of the Hon. Member's reproach,and
allowing that his want of foresight ought to withdraw from him
the confidence of the country. On the article of Stamps he cer-
tainly had been decidedly wrong. He estimated their produce at
7,400,000/. ; but he got no such thing, he got only 6,007,000/.
The fact was that he had been too sanguine. It was, perhaps,
the error of his character. But however that might be,
he'most willingly allowed that he had been widely wrong
in this estimate. But he could by no means admit the
justice of the Honourable Member's remark that with
respect to the miscellaneous estimates he had not dealt
quite fairly. Undoubtedly those estimates had not pro-
duced the amount which he supposed they would pro-
duce. He had estimated them at 1,350,000/. ; they had pro-
duced only between 900,000/. and 1,000,000/. One of the items
of these miscellaneous estimates was the return which he expected
from Ireland of the old silver coin which had been called in. In
the antecedent year the sum of 500,000/. had been voted for a
new silver coinage in Ireland ; and he had anticipated that the
return of the old silver coin to the Treasury would amount to
400,000/. ; whereas it had amounted only to 260,0001. More,
however, was receivable, and no doubt would be received in the
present year; the delay in its payment having been occasioned by
no immediate demand having been made for it. From this
source arose a deficiency of near 200,000/. ; which was undoubt-
etedrl
my
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ofal
conceiving that a certain portion of profit remained to be received
by the public from that source. He had not found out his error
until it was too late to rectify it ; and had therefore anticipated
a receipt of 180,000/., which never accrued. These were the cir-
cumstances which reduced the produce of the miscellaneous esti-
mates below his estimate. But then the Hon. Member for Abing-
don said that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had taken
credit for repayments made to the Commissioners of Exchequer
Bills in England, and of the Consolidated Fund in Ireland,
to the amount of 273,000/. Never. He had always excluded
items of that description from his statement; it being utterly
impossible to anticipate either the issues or the returns. It would
indeed be a miserable trick, of which he was sure the Honourable
Gentleman could not suppose that he would be guilty, had he
taken credit for repayments without noticing issues ; but the fact
was, that the Honourable Gentleman was wrong in imagining that
he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had adverted to the subject
at all in his anticipation of the receipt and expenditure of the
year. He was not aware that he could at present go more par-
ticularly or minutely into these points. When a fit opportunity
should occur for a full discussion of the subject, he should be
ready to prove to the House, and he thought satisfactorily, that
although on the face of the balance-paper there appeared to be a
surplus. of only one million, there was no reason whatever to in-
fer from that circumstance that we were incapable of making
every effort that might be required for the maintenance of our
honour, and for the support of the various establishments which
were necessary for the good of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MABERLY explained.

Mr. HUME admitted that the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had satisfactorily explained the deficiency in the produce
of the Miscellaneous Estimates, and hoped he would have the
power of affording the further explanation of which he talked. He
did not mean to throw any imputation on the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, but merely to say, that in his Estimates of last year he was
too sanguine. He would confine his remarks to the ordinary re-
venue and expenditure ; to the amount received from taxation ;
and to the amount paid for the maintenance of our establishment,
and for the interest of the debt. If the House would do him the
favour to attend to him, he would endeavour to explain the matter.
In 1825 the revenue was 52,000,000/. ; in 1826 it was
49,600,0001., being 4 diminution of 2,400,0001. Out of this
revenue the Act of Parliament required that a net surplus of
5,000,000/. should be applied as a Sinking Fund. Instead, how-
ever, of a surplus of 5,000,000/., the Right Hon. Gentleman him,
self admitted that he had only a surplus of 1,000,0001. It followed
that there was a deficiency in the last year of 4,000,000/, The
expenditure of the country had increased as follow :—ln 1825, the
Army, Navy, Ordnance, &c. had been 17,212,000/. ;in 1826 •
they had been 19,344,000/. ; being an increase of 2,132,0001.
Combining the deficiency of revenue with the increase of expend i-
ture, it was easy to understand why the surplus should
not exceed a million. The question for the House to
consider was, whether we were in a condition to go on in
the same manner next year. The Right Honourable
Gent. said that we were; he (Mr. Hume) said that we were not.
Why? With that surplus million we had pretended to reduce five
millions and a half of debt. But how ? In the old way. By
borrowing four millions and a half, and adding to that sum the
million of surplus, we made it appear on paper that five millions
and a half of debt had been redeemed. He must protest against
such a delusion. He would show that the surplus million was
already altogether absorbed by the expences which had been incurred,
leaving out of the question all considerations of loans or sinking
funds. He would take it fer granted that the revenue of the pre-
sent would not exceed the revenue of the last year. In the first
place, there were Life Annuities to the amount of 580,0001. a year,
which, strange to say, were never brought to the public account,
but were always paid out of the Sinking Fund. Then there was
the sum of 200,000/. increase in the interest-of, the outstanding
debt ; occasioned by raising, on the Ist of January, the rate of
interest on Exchequer Bills from three halfpence to two-pence ;
and lastly, there was nearly the sum of 400,0001. to supply the
deficiency arising from reducing the 5 per cents. These three
sums would make it necessary to pay 1,160,0001. more in 1827,
than in the last year. The consequence was, that, supposing the
surplus of 1827 to be equal to that of the last year, there would,
nevertheless, be a bona fide deficiency of above 140,0001.—We
had incurred a debt of 3,000,000/. in the management of the Dead
Weight of only 13,000,000/.--so much for attempting to bolster
up the Sinking Fund. We had been proceeding in this unneces-
sary accumulation of debt from the period of Sir Robert Walpole
to the present time. If, under the name of a Sinking Fund,
Ministers had at their disposal, a surplus Revenue of 5,000,000/.
they would sooner or later find means of expending that stupluo,