Star.
London, England, 1830-03-20 00:00:00

.1 .'.at could be called a spoliation by which no one had benefitted,
sr :hat which had altered the standard into one which had
ver been the standard of this country for twenty-three years. He
could not agree with the honourable member for Liverpool,
whom he was sorry not to see in his place, that this alteration could
be, in any respect. beneficial to the poor. In that, as in every
other case the weakest must go to the wall. It pressed heavily upon
two classes of persons—the debtor and the labourer. In any
defalcation of property the rich would endeavour to retrench, but
the retrenchment was made at the cost of other men. (Hear, hear.)
They threw off their dependents, who, being thus thrown out
of employ, were thrown upon the labour of the country,
and thus added to the distress of the labouring poor. It appeared
to him that if the country could bear the pressure under which
it suffered at present, that pressure was not likely to go any
further. The question was, whether the country could bear
it ; and it would be arrogant in him to hazard a conjecture. Of all
kinds of circulation he considered that to be the moat dangerous
which consisted of small paper payable on demand. But, though
he agreed with the hon. member for Essex as to the causes of the
distress, he did not agree as to the remedies. There were three
results which he looked upon as inseparable in the present state of '
things—these were low prices, very low rents, and very low rent
for money.

Mr. L. FOSTER observed that it struck him as singular, that
every gentleman who had spoken hitherto in this debate, had attri-
buted the distress, now so prevalent in the country, to one cause only
.....the currency--(cries of " no, no.") He certainly understood the
majority of the gentlemen to use that argument —(cries of " no, no")
However, if he was mistaken as to the whole, he could not be de.
ceived as to the tendency of the argument, which certainly went to
contend that the currency was the sole cause of the present distress of
the country. If such was the argument he must say it was most falla-
cious. There was no worse nostrum in the hands of political quacks,
titan that the distress of the country could be relieved by addition to
the currency. For what was the currency but an addition to the
capital of the country? And was it complained that there was a
scarcity of capital? on the contrary, the complaint was, that it
was too abundant. An increase of the currency would, there.
fore, but add to that which was already too abundant. The fact
was, that trade wanted not an increase of currency, but of
customers ; either find out new markets abroad, or open that
best of all markets the markets of Great Britain, which
can alone lighten the burdens of the country, and you then
bestow a benefit upon trade. This Government had done much by
reducing the taxes, and the country ought to be grateful to
then, for it. Much had been said of the distress of the coun-
try With respect to the condition of the people in England and
Scotland he would not presume to give an opinion, being but little
acquainted with those countries. One remark, however, he might
make, that it seemed to be unfair to take extreme instances of dis-
tress as the average of the condition of the whole country. He
might say the same of Ireland. Undoubtedly, in Dublin, Bandon,
and some other places, there was distress prevailing to a considers-
Me extent; but what he complained of was, that these places were
taken as the average of the whole. But in these places, the die-
tress was referable to known and local causes. His impression,
from all the information which he had received, and his own
observation, was—that there never was so much capital in the
country, never was trade better, and never was distress less general
in Ireland than at this moment. This he could prove in various
ways. It was admitted upon all hands that the manner in which
rents were paid was a fair criterion of the condition of a country.
lie (Mr. Foster) understood, and from what he considered very
good authority, the receivers under the Court of Chancery in Ire-
land, that the rents were collected with as much facility now
throughout the country as at any former time. Exceptions there
certainly were to this, but they were explainable on known ma-
soas. It was not perhaps generally known to English gentlemen,
to what an extent some estates were mismanaged in Ireland ; how
upon others there was an excessive population ; and upon others
for local and positive causes; the returns were not such as they
were capable of being made; with the exception of such estates, he
asserted that the condition of Ireland was never better than it was at
tnis moment. And when he called the attention of the house to the
circumstances under which Irish produce was brought into the mar-
ket, this was not to be wondered at. It was astonishing to what an
extent Irish agricultural produce, castle, bacon, and even eggs,
found its way into this country, even as far as the remotest parts of
,Yorkshire. He had not the actual returns by him, but he
believed he did not overstate the case when he estimated the
whole of the amount of Irish commodity, brought into this
country, and for which the Irish tenants received cash to pay their
rents with, at three-fourths of the value of the whole rental of the
agricultural property of Ireland. This he stated in the rough,
though he believed it would not be found very incorrect ; but
gentlemen who were curious on the subject might obtain informa-
tion, almost accurate, by referring to the steam-boat offices and
other establishments connected with the intercourse between
the two counties. He had mentioned Dublin and Bandon as
exceptions to the general state of Ireland, and he would now
say a word upon those exceptions. In Dublin, the number of ab-
solute mendicants might be about two thousand, but there were
besides, about 7000 operative manufacturers who were out of work,
and therefore, incumbents to some extent upon the charity of the
public. This number of both these classes, had been nearly the
sane for many years, and the way in which they were provided for
WAY the same as before.. The absolute mendicants were steady in
their distress and in their claims for relief. With respect to the
distressed nianufacturere, they were the objects of transitions of the
most frequent as well as various kinds, alternately the victims of
temporary depression, or nhort.lived prosperity. Odd as it would
seem, it was no less a fact that the most opposite causes Lad worked
equally to distress them. Before the " free intercourse" mea-
ty,• between this country and Ireland, the Irish manufacturer
wet oppressed by the restrictions which were imposed upon his
market, being obliged, whatever the return, to confine himself to
the Irish market ; but since that measure, although he had been
I into the English market, yet it was with the ruinous condition
of having to compete with the English manufacturer here and at
lame, who opposes Min with capital, skill, and resources, which
give hint a decided advantage over the Irishman. So much,
then for the distresses of Dublin. and indeed for the manufacturers
throughout Ireland generally. With respect to Bandon, that was
peculiarly situated. The distress there was attributable to the
partial failure of an attempt made to establish the cotton menu-
laCtUte upon a small scale, and which, by being upon a small
sale, was the more likely to fail, for a small capital can bear re-
ve:s, s much worst than large, as was well known. In Belfast,
however, where the capital invested was larger, the cotton trade was
beginning to take deeper root, and for sixty miles round the hand-
heron, which were of the same size as those of Lancashire, were at
out earnin g 4s. a week. He thought that gan additional
ulus ro trade would be a great relief. and thisg ministers had
.coar by reducing the taxes. For all these reasons be thought
tit it further inquiry was not desirable, for the causes of the distress
had been already proved. Ile protested against it, therefore ;
because it was unnecessary ; secondly, because it was likely
to mislead the public; thirdly, because he was sure that in an in-
auuy extreme cases would be taken as the average state of the
sanitary, and we should at length persuade ourselves, and other
euuntries, that we were reduced to a state of desperation, which
would more likely exasperate than alleviate the distress. But,
lastly, he objected to the inquiry because it did not mean investiga-
tion, but meant two things—namely, papas currency and a change
of Administration. (Hear and laughter.)
Mr. HOLSWORTII next addrested the house. He was under-
stood to say that he did not see what benefit tout(' be derived from
a committee of inquiry ; for, in his opinion, ii:stead of tending to
teheve this digress, it would only deceive the public, and do more
ham than gond. Nu doubt the hon. gentleman who had brought
t. re:ad the question had the good of the country at heart, and he gate
hint credit ter the course which he had punned ; but, at the same
time, he vus afr.ild that it was riot in the power of the house to afford
that taef which the public expected. The causes of the distress were various and complicated. They heard of great distress in par-
elculat distrets ; in other places the distress might be 'said to be com-
paratively small. There was, however, no great difficulty in ac-
counting for this, b.:cause if the house would look to the different
parts Ul mime country. and take a comprehensive view of the genera!
sytem oltrade, manufactures, and agriculture, they would find that
S constant change was going on, and that manutactwes were trans-
i
/nal suceeseively from one county to another. For instance, the
woollen trade at one time was carried on to a considerable extent in
Hampshire, Sussex, Norfolk, and other southern counties, while
a' the present time that trade was confined to Yorkshire and one or
trt: western counties. The silk trade also had undergone a similar
et;"hge• It had removed from Spitalfichls to Manchester, and other
places in the country, and it was natural to suppose that the Inha.
hi is of those places from which the trade had been transferred
must be :n wear distress. In his 'pinion, however, the distress
did not !tress so heavily on what might be called the poorer
agclarleu`n"--2!..l,Pses.seel most heavily on the small
. shopkeeper,‘ the
Ur, lahourer, and those connected with agriculture, but
he wa, ••• aid the reined, was beyond the reach of the legis-
lature. «'.n, Ur commercial confidence, no doubt, increased
toe evil. In suite districts, he admitted, there was an ap-
,P.iernce ut presperity, but this was but too often deceitful, moss
as persons who were engaged in trade—in the iron trade, tor
it..tice.-- were obliged to keep their furnaces at work, and often tuut any profit, in order not only to prevent their machinery
to !rout going to decay, but also to prevent others from erecting storks
94mithiun to them. Nothing, however, he was convinced.
.1
at change the state sit the manufacturers but their own good
The manufacturer's, however, were not in such difficulty
as the agriculturists, and this was easily accounted for. The ma-
4afactarer meld go to what market he Plea!" use had emnpara-
%rly few risks; while the agrieultutist was cui;fined to the home