The Sun.
London, England, 1827-02-16 00:00:00

.he • coliceiveti, be carried too far, for recent events had
showh, that. emigrants ef that, description had been very
successfdl in Upper O* soda. There was, indeed, a peculiar dis-
tinction between the agricultural and manufactuiing population
in one respect, that it became extremely difficult, from the na-
twa of_the employment of the manufacturer', and from its fre-
quent variations, to say whether there was at any particular time
a redundancy in any branch of trade. They had seen thousands
out of employment to-day receiving high wages and in full work
on the morrow; and in such sudden changes and ebullitions it
became extremely bard to say at what time, or to what extent,
any branch was to be relieved. In his opinion, the only method
of ascertaining the state of a population under such circumstances,
was by the rate of wages; and he would say, that if the wages
of any man were sufficient in a time of what was called prosperity.
to support himself and his family, it would he too much for that
House to say that there was any redundancy of hands in that
branch of manufactures. It followed, therefore, on the contrary,
that if the wages of labour were invariably and for a long period
insufficient to the maintenance of a man in employment, there
must bee redundancy of hands in that employment, which ought
to be reduced. He supposed that none would deny, that what
governed commodities of trade themselves might be said to go-
vern those who produced them ; and that when the supply be-
came greater than any possible demand could consume, the
market must be cleared of that superabundant produce before
a fair remunerating price can be had for the remainder. If,
therefore, the market could by any means, such as emigra-
tion affords, be cleared of those hands which were at the pre-
sent. moment superabundant, it followed that the remainder
would find the wages of labour increased to such an amount as
would afford them an adequate remuneration. To take the parish
of Blackburn, in Lancashire, for example. In the year 1814, the
average price for weaving was nine shillings and sixpence for each
piece, of which there were then 27,000 made in a week, and the
produce to the weavers was 12,095/. In the year 1826, the ave-
rage price of weaving a piece of the very same description, was
ls. 9d. Was not that, he would ask, a state of things which re-
quired remedy? and did it not show that something more was re-
quisite than a mere increase of demand? These persons had peti-
tioned the House in terms of the bitterest feelings of distress and
despondency ; but he would vesture to say, that they had ascribed
their misfortunes to things which had no conceivable reference to
their present condition. The great cause of their misfortune arose
from the state of the Poor Laws, and the system which had been
introduced under them, of obtaining a legal settlement, The pre-
sent method of employing power-looms and machinery had been
introduced into that particular trade upwards of ten years
ago; and yet, in defiance of that fact, and in ignorance of the
real cause, they persisted in asserting that their• situation was
produced from the employment of machinery, and that they
would be. relieved by its destruction. He would ask, was it
not of some importance that they should be made to under-
stand, through the investigation and inquiries of a Commit-
tee,s what was the real cause—that they should he made to
appreciate the consequences of the superabundant hands intro-
duced from Ireland and other places, and he made to com-
prehend that theip causes had no reference to the effects ? Sup-
pose that the machinery in- a parish was destroyed, why the
manufacturer would erect new machinery in another, and the
means of employment in the parish from whence he removed
he altogether taken away, without, in the slightest degree,
diminishing the production of which they complained. In
Manchester, there was a population of 120,000 persons, and vet
there were at the present moment 3590 families, making upwards
of 14,000 persons, altogether destitute of employment. If
there was a hope that all the present distress would be re-
moved, and the cloud which at present hung over their pros-
pects would clear away—if it was possible to find any other
method of permanently employing their families, and leaving the
supply equal to the demand, then God forbid that he should be
1. he first to recommend emigration from this country to any other;
but if the question rested upon the point of whether the
distress was temporary or permanent, he feared there was
very little chance of any relief by employment, so as to place
those who were now suffering beyond the reach of distress.

would be- unnecessary for hid; to say that the introduction of
machinetymust, under every circumstance, be considered a most
desirable object; but it was for the House to judge how far that
machinery had contributed to the present distress. One thing was
certain,- that the productions by the means of machinery had be-
come great enough to prevent any fear of a rise in the price of any
commodity by the withdrawing of workmen through the means of
emigration. - The Honourable Member then went into an expla-
nation of the details, as shown from the labours of the last Com-

nattite, stated the maximum cost of the transport of every
igdividual Cans4s, to be about 201. Many of them, indeed
jt, itid there been fort4nate; and there was the beet ground for
believing ti4t the condition of repaying the advances made to them
by Government could not, under any circumstances, be considered
hardship. He Was cal aware that the subject of emigration,
c,,4,rmected with the manufacturing districts, required ainch fur-
ther exculination, and he did not pretend to deny that it might
not lead to 4 consideration of the whole state of the Poor Laws—
* subject on whieb, more had been said than any thing he had
'fated. This only he would venture to declare, that unless they
faidy wt, the evil, and applied some real and substantive remedy;

the demands ttutjer those Laws wonl4 soon absorb the whole rental

,e 4' capital of the country. To that subject the Committee would
apply ;liernselves, and if they, or any others, could suggest any-
other or tittter expedient than.emigration, he would most gladly
„imbrace it; altlsough he bad ria hesitation in saying, and after the
most mature opusideration, that it was his deliberate conviction no
better remedy could be found. The Honourable Member, after
eulogising the Committee of last year, and declaring that the re-
sult of their labours showed the propriety of the plan he recom-
mended, concluded by proposing that a Committee be appointed
to consider the subject of Emigration from the 'United Kingdom.
Mr. JAMES GRATTAN was decidedly of opi-
nion that the Committee: recommended by the Hon. Gentleman
would lead the public astray. The intention of the lion. Mem-
ber was, he had no doubt; very good ; but Emigration was his
hobby, and if carried to the extent he recommended, could nit
be justified. He began, indeed, rather in an Irish way to
carry his intentions into effect; for after having spent some
20,0001. in sending emigrants to Canada, he now came to
the iruse requiring a Committee to inquire whether emigration
would fie proper—(Hear, hear.)—Nothing, in his opinion, could
:.;e more .uniqstitiable, in the present state of the finances, than
;to come to the Howo of Commons, requiring it to advance 201.

47-head-,--for such waa the minimum—to transport people to
eanida. If they wished, fait was said, to make the people com-
foitthle, let them apply the saw sum to make them-comfort-
able at. hnuag, and they would find their efforts much more be-
neficial. The number of Irish who came to England was, he
,amitted, A- TtrY great hardship upon the
augl,4 to recollect What had- been u y people;b.lr but they
Mr. Hodges,
teat, a.s tong as the 'lrish- couhl live in hovels, or lie in lanes, sir
,;.itches, while the English labourer or manufacturer required
tc well lodged end well fed—Lio long even the encouragement
to emigration could 4ot save the English from the effect of their
i:oropetition. They ought to rieform the systetii; they ought to
compel the Irish landlords to adopt means for the improvement
of the condition of their tenantry, and give the people employment
at home. The flon,urable Gentleman bad talked a good deal of
the employment of capital, and of a superabundant population;
but did'tie recollect 'what Mr. Nimmo said (not an Irishman, but
a Scotch Man, end it' 'Very; intelligent gentleman)? He declared
_ .

that he had gone over Ireland repeatedly, and that he was con-
vinced there must be something wrong, with which they were not
as he had frequently seen land let it fivo pounds an
yet acquainted,
cre, without any icarrity of work, or any disturbance. The
:Honourable Member concluded by moving, as an Amendment,
e` That•the state of distress existing in this country at present, and
she stilt greater distress which has existed for so many years in
Ireland,-require • some more immediate and permanent remedy,
than that ;which could be expected to result from the re-appoint.
meat at a Committee on Emigration."
Mr- 140 MBE rose to second the amendment, but
Was scarcelraolible in the gallery during the greater part of his
speech. We undeistood him to say, that if the honourable gen-
tleman opposite wtadd;come down to that house with a fair and
honest scheme atelatiisalion, he should have his. cordial support;
but this. wail a mereaelatilon." As to Ireland, there was but one
course to .be. parstaiL...ognwh,
emancipation must be granted.
it was said_ that the lifts". °Me present distresses of that country
Was "viag to want'fsthlklattite and that there was no capital
to furnish that employment. Why was there no capital? Because
of the disturbances which existed there, and which would prevent
any capitalist in his senses from risking Lk in the
p t coun-
try. Remove the disabilities under which the Catholics laboured,
and these disturbance would cease. He spoke, the sentiments of
every honest Irish Man when he said that,if.th;e",
disabilities were
removed the people of Ireland would become
PO and peaceful
subjects, and that the English capitalist might themeettle there
perfect security. This would certainly be, the result; and if it
were brought about, the Hon. Gentleman opposAte Weald,
in
all
probability,, come down to the House and ask how people were to
be made to meet the exigencies of the capitalists. He trusted
that the great question of Catholic emancipation would pass that
House in i few -dais ; and if it were not, he hoped that he should
Eve to see the day when the people of Ireland would come in a
body to the doors of that House, and snatch by constitutional
means those privileges which they had co long prayed for in vain.
Colonel ToRR ENS rose to offer his sentiments