Star.
London, England, 1808-03-01 00:00:00

pAßLUMMlraiff*Oczzp.

11

must OP U DS, PEs. 20.
_llr. ADAM was heard in eatlusion on the Appeal, Crawford
aFinst Patrick.—Judgment was until Thursday nat.
The Ten !Million and a liar aqua Bills Bill, and Petty
Customs Survey orshipp Abolition went through a Committee.
The Brazil Trade BM, and Treasurer of the Navy Regulation
BM, were read a third time.
LORD LAX& •
Lord HAWKESBURY brought dawn a Message
from his Majesty, recommending the settling of a
pension of 20001. a year on Lord Lake, in'considera-
tion of the eminent services performed by his Noble
Father. It was ordered to be taken into consideration
to-morrow.

i . iCt

AMERICAN TREATY.
Lord AUCKLAND wished to be informed, from
the Noble Secretary (Lord Hawkesbury), whether
the official copy of the American Treaty had not
reached the hands of the President of the United
States on the 13th or 14th of March, and not, as had
been stated, on the 3d of that month : he had reason
to think that the Copy' which reached America on
the latter day, was that transmitted to our Ambas-
sador : and as Congress terminated its session on the
same day, it could not, in fairness, be alledged, that
an opportunity had been lost of submitting it to their
deliberation.
Lord HAWKESBURY could not at present
give a positive answer to the question ; but he would
make the nesessary enquiry, It was extremely pro-
bable that it Would Wm out to be as the Noble Lord
suggested.
CUSTOM HOUSE PAPERS.
Lord GRENVILLE adverted to the delay which
had occurred in producing the instructions addressed
to the Board of Customs, relative to the execution of
the Orders in Council, together with a list of the neu.i
tral vessels sent in, and subsequently released under
bond..
Lord NAWKESBURY promised to make imme-
diate enquiry into the cause of the delay complained
of. With regard to the list of vessels, he conceived
there had scarcely been time to get returns from all
the outports.

ONDIF.RS IN COUNCIL.
Lord HOLLAND gave notice of his intention to
submit to their Lordships, on Thursday se'nnight, a
motion respecting the commercial policy of the Or-
ders in Council.
Lord ST. JOHN then called their Lordships' at.
tention to the Order of the Day for considering the
Orders in Council, in relation to the alledged facts on
which they were supposed to proceed. The French
Government had repeatedly, of late years, accused
this country of having acquired its influence on the
Continent by the arts of intrigue. Nothing could be
more completely false. The ascendancy of England
in foreign Courts, was the triumph of the British
Constitution, which, through the medium of Parlia-
mentary discussion, and the influence of public opi-
nion, compelled the Government to act towards all
powers according to the acknowledged principles of
the law of nations, and the immutable principles of
justice. The Noble Lord then entered into a detailed
examination of the various documents already known
to the public, to prove that the preamble of the Order
in Council of the 11th of November last was unfoun-
ded, inasmuch as no neutral nation had, up to that
date, acquiesced in the enemy's Decree of Blockade,
nor were Ministers then possessed of any facts tend-
ing to spew that it had been executed with increased
rigour. He concluded with moving a string of Reso-
lutions, drawn from these premises, strongly repre-
hensive of the Orders in Council.
The Duke of MOI',IT ROSE did not profess to be
profoundly versed in the law of nations, but, assum-
ing it to be that of nature and self-preservation, ap-
plied to the conduct of independent States—he had
not been able to find any thing at variance with it in
the Orders of Conncil. We had a right to retaliate,
not only in the same mode, but in such manner as to
make the enemy feel the distress which he sought, by
the violation of neutral rights, to inflict upon us. The
time of doing so, was a question, not of justice, but
of policy ; and he thought it would have been very
unwise to wait the slow course of representations and
remonstrance to the enemy from the neutral. The
doctrine of retaliation had been most correctly and
ably laid down by the late Administration, in their
notes respecting the Order in Council of the 7th of
January. He concluded with moving the previous
question.
Lord HOLLAND thought the line of argument
taken by the preceding speaker should have kd him
rather to negative the motion of his Noble Friend,
than to propose the previous question, the usual mean.
ing of which was, no more than that the matter in
debate was not at the time a fit subject for considera-
tion. But what could be a fit subject of consideration,
if a question was not so, which involved the justice
and policy of our public measures, and affected the
honour and dignity of the Government and the Coun-
try. Ministers were justly afraid of publishing the
secret information which they professed to have re-
ceived, and which had been drawn from them by -a
decision of that House, so far as respected the Orders
in Council. They had not produced a single fact to
substantiate that measure. The House would hence
derive a lesson of caution as to the credit due on fu-
ture occasions, to allegations of secret intelligence,
and a lesson of regret as to the confidence on which
they had voted, with respect to the attack on Den-
mark. The Noble Lord then entered into a wide field
of argument, to prove that America.had never ac-
quiesced in the enemy's decree ; that she had, with the
utmost possible promptitude, remonstrated against it;
and that, when the Orders in Council came eut, it
had not, in a single instance, been enforced against
her. From these premises he inferred that the orders
were a gross violation of the rights of neutrals. He
then took a view of the Order of the 7th of January,
with the notes explanatory of that measure, and con-
tended, that it was strictly within the law of nations,
and that the further retaliation then threatened, was
most distinctly founded on the extent of actual block-
ade, to which our maritime resources were competent.
Lord MULGRAVE complained of the conduct
of the Noble Lords opposite, in splitting the subject
of the Orders in Council into so many minute ques-
tions of, detail, as tending to harrass Administration,
and withdraw their attention from their.official duties.
He asserted our right to retaliate upon the enemy to
such extent, and in such manner, as would prove
most likely to make him revoke his unjust decree.—
The system adopted was that which he conceived to

. .
itiisrhetatemtestleinceens
to,f
inirriLetec.ountri,
he
purpose, while it imposed tTohlnln " e 2esteere .s.,
the least possible restraints upon neutrals.
be molt efficient for thista‘glah heuhder had
.etard AUCKLAND, from the tenor of the Note bad high- duties impoSied upon hitt, in keeping e,
which he and his Noble Friend (Holland) delivered, table to all officers, who hive eerted under him, -cc
on s - •
signing the American Treaty, conceived the ho- well. ken. w the beneficence of his private ' °
'e character.
' nour of the GOVernment pledged against the adoption Colonel WOOD gave to the motion Ns heanee,
.
of the system which had been pursued with regard to s pp
e ert. If ever there wis a gallant ulcer,
oose
the United States . ! Lake vets one. He would enter into n •
. 0 comprise,.
In the sequel of the debate, the original motion between the merits of Earl 'Howe avid Lord Lake
was supported by Lords Lauderdale, Grey, and but great as the services of the
former heeteseem, the;
Grenville ; while Lords Redesdale, Westmorland, were equalled by those of Lord Lake.
Hawkesbury, and Galloway, argued in support Of the Mr. Ws SMITH would not oppose the ;lotion,
previous question, which was carsied, on a division, but felt inclined toeay a few words, fora wea he,
by 137 to 47; Proxies included. I already passed. thought the facts; icon
!ne;
A Protest against the decision was entered on the 'Lord Lake's preperty, at the perind nf Ins demise
Journals, and signed by a considerable 'Limber of , ought to have been better known than they appeared..
.Peers.—Adjourned at half-past two o'clock. to he ; and though it was said Lent I.a`2 k b
rolleht
_ home 40,0001• yet he atclere.cod he had b °
• mught
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
- * home 140,0001. Questions of this kind wtre
rally carried by acclantation, P.:id it would be gene'
The SPEAKER having taken the Chair, acquainted the House 'mock.
that he had received a letter from Mr. Bourchier, Deputy Clerk ' Wieser were a Committee previously appeinted to see
of the Crown and Hamper in Ireland, acquaititing him that a pc- quire into the particulars of I.ord Lake's means. le
tition had been lodged in his office, by General Hart, against the Lord Lake was poor, from neglecting opportuniese
return of Mr. Montgomery, on the late election for the county of
of emolument, he thought such afact wee the h. bri
Donnegal. g e't
Some papers from the Naval Asylum were presented, and or- jewell in his character.
..Still the Committee %%btu.
lured to lie on the table. know the facts—dignity ought to attach to a P •
i
LORD LAKE. but independence ought also to appertain to it.
Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the order of the Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY said, that it ;try
day foi the House resolving into a Committee to I very true that Lord -Lake was Very much in debt
take into consideration his Majesty's Message, reques- previous to his going to India, and to the discharge
ting the House to make provision for the family of of those debts, the residue of his pay and appoint.
the late Lord Lake. The Speaker having left the malts (after the necessary expetce of his establishment
/ chair, Lord Castlereagh addressed the Committee.— was deducted) was constantly applied, and paid eves
He stated that he now came forward with a resole- to an Agent that came from England for that purpose,
tion, in obedience to the King's message, and he As to the circumstances of Lord Lake's family, he
trusted there would be little difficulty in persuading knew that his family estate only amounted to about
the Committee to agree to what he should propose, as eOOl, a year; and that the money that he died eerie
such grants had always been the practice of Parlia- was only from 35,0001. to 40,0001. Such being the
meet to bestow, especially upon men distinguished actual state of his circumstances, it was evident that
for splendid military abilities—these abilities having the dignity
of the peerage could nox be sui ported by
been crowned with success. A reason might he his successor, nor his family previded for, unlessen
stated, why such an application as the present Led. House should agree to grant the pension.
not been made before, and it was this ; the services Mr. WHITBREAD
_said, there were radical ob.
performed by Lord Lake, were in India, and prior jections in his mind to the erection of a monument to
to his Majesty investing him with a Peerage, • His the memory of Lord Lake. He did not think Lord
Majesty veaseherisfOre not aware of the necessity for Lake's services entitled to the distinction of pre-eme.
the application, or that the situation of Lord Lake, in nent services: The huge estate bestowed on the great
India, required any pecuniary aid or support to main- Duke of Marlborough was not given that &smote
tarn and uphold the dignity conferred on him. Ano- hero because he was poor, but because his services
titer thing ought to be stated on behalf of the late were pre-eminent. Lord Lake was certainly a gal.
Lord Lake, the liberality of one branch of the Royal lant soldier, and his personal valour was highly yap
Family had rendered him reluctant to press upon the thy of praise.
country. Lord Castlereagh- went on to describe the Mr. LUSHINGTON saidethat, as it was stated
heroic atchievements of Lord Like, in early life, in that the fortunes of Lord Lake's daughters did nu
America ;in Europe, at Lincelles ; and finally, in exceed 15001. he thought it would be much better
Asia. is spirit, intrepidity, and personal bravery, give the sum of 90001. among the younger chilther
were exemplary to a degree, and in every instance than to make it a present to the inheritor of thetiffe.
where his army was engaged, did he personally ex- Sir FRANCIS BURDETT rose to enter his Fleet
pose himself to danger. After eulogising his merits, against the grant. •He had two objections ; one a
he stated, that with regard to the female part of Lord personal grounds, and the other upon constitutional
Lake's family, his Lordship had left them little or grounds. The personal objection was this, that when
nothing, 15001. a year. In consideration, however, any individual came forward to claim a pension a
of his Lordship's most eminent services having been the ground of services, those services should be d
displayed in India, in 1803, it was intended to pro- very distinuished nature. There ought not to he e
pose a pension of 20001. per annum to the present necessity for asking when and where those 'services
Lord Lake, and to the two next heirs male, and to were performed ; but they should be services of •
make this pension payable, from the 11th of Septem- brilliant kind, that the fame of them would ring
ber, 1803. This arrear would make the proper ar- through the world. In the present circumstances of
rangements for the female part of the family. After / the country, when the people of England were bar.
that Resolution should be carried, he should follow it thened and exhausted with taxation, he did nutlet*
up by another, for an Address to his Majesty, ena- that any extraordinary grants of money should •
bling him to order a monument to be erected, to per- voted as a remuneration for services which were
petuate the memory and services of Lord Lake. -in themselves of -extraordinary merit. This was .
Mr. WHITBREAD objected to the Resolution. whole of the personal objection, as he did not deny
He observed that the Noble Lord seemed to have la- that Lord Lake was a gallant officer, and had
boured the matter much, and if such a reward was formed some services, although he differed with me .
necessary now, how much more necessary was it in Honourable Members as to the valise of those services.
1803, when Lord Lake was alive and susceptible of —His great objection however to the grant was 7 .
enjoying the dignities conferred on him, and the fiber,. constitutional grounds. He thought that his Majesty
ality of Parliament at the same time. He had ano- had ample resources and means to reward every me
ther objection to the resolution ; great and splendid rut of this nature, and that there was no necessity i
rewards were always voted for eminent dervices, and applying to Parliament to lay a new burden upon '
he contended there was no comparison between the people. He should ask what had become deli ,
s:rvices of the late Lord Howe and the late Lord sinecures which were at the disposal of the Crown
Like. He was sorry to learn that Lord Lake's fa. under the patronage. of Ministers ? Whenever
_roily stood in need of such assistance. He should had been alluded to in that House, it was alwas
not, therefore, object to the vote altogether, only he gued by Ministers, that these things
sower
rewardee very
did not wish to go to such an extent. sary, in order to enable the Crown
Mr. W. DUNDAS supported the motion. It had services ; but whenever theic -were any eminent
been said, that Lord Lakeewhile in India, had en- cos to be rewarded, instead of giving any of
joyed high emoluments, and had various lucrative i places which it was pretended that they oughsto
I appointments, but he. was lorry to state that Noble the patronage of, for the reward of eminent services
Lord had returned to England in a state of compa- the real reward was always made to come
Hey im
native poverty. an additional burden on the people. b
sh o
• Mr. M. A. TAYLOR. said he should not object to ask the Gentlemen on the other side, what I
to the resolution, were it not for the pressure of the eminent services those were, for the reward of
times. No man in the existing circumstances of the those things were given ? They were services
[ country ought to load and burden the people—at the never saw the light—services which none but ,
same time he thought that something was due to the nisters knew any thing about. When, howeve.r,
descendants of a gallant officer, whose whole profes- real service was performed,
sienna applied to
. additional
stonal life for 30 years had been zealously devoted to meet to reward it, by laying burdens
\
' the service of his country. He understood Lord Lake exhausted people. On this princ n iple he felt it his
had returned with upwards of E 40,000,, but that was to take the settee of the House upo the motien,
I not enough to support his daughters, who would only call for a division. As to the merits of Lord"
be allowed £l5OO a year. The Committee pught to .he thought that was a very minor considerat
do justice, and not suffer his family to. pine in obscu- Whatever the merits of that gallant officer mi
rity and penury. The late General Dundas had lost the remuneration he received was not behind
his life ini the cause of his country, and provision There wereany
other gallant officers who had
had been made for his family.
Lord CASTLEREAGH explained, fermed serviceshich had been by no means •
ded in the proportion that Lord Lake's had'
General I'ARLETON supported the motion. It He believed, that if Lord Lake were now ale
was a question dear to all who entertained ideas of ! could not consent to put in a claim for addo
professional honour, and it was a subject -highly in- grants to reward his services, which grants
teresting to the country at large. He then panegy- another burden imposed upon an exhausted
rises( Lord Lake's valour in America, at York Town, If his merits.had been- so great, the merits of'
pie of England were not small. They had e
and said that he did not return frcm India like Lucul- ,
lus, or a.; Massena from Italy.
with unexampled patience to privatiensaad•
Lord FOLKSTONE spoke against the motion, of every kind, If all merit was to be reward'
and said that it came forward on a very disagreeable was their merit to find its remuderation or re,
i footing, namely, the poverty of the late Lord-Lake. The only reward which they could'- receive -
I He could not think that assertion well founded, as he , the watchful attention of the House over tb,
had been raised to a peerage for his eminent services. ', and to prevent any unnecessary burdens bei
When such dignity was conferred on him, he surely sed on them. From these consideratione 1
was entitled to additional emolument. With regard his duty tc oppose the motion. '
to a monument to Lord Lake's memory he could not 1 TheCHANCELLOR of the EXCHF.QI
agree, as there was, he believed, no instance of any the. Hon. Baronet might rest assured that
structure of the kind, unless the person whose memory wouldeverlook most watchfullyto the King's
it was intended to perpetuate died in battle. i but he surelyedid not mean to insinuate that
Lord TEMPLE differed from the Noble Lord, case as the present the House ought to be nii
and observed, he had never known a stronger claim parsimonious in • •
. renardingeminent services I
for services of great moment, 'rewarded by a poverty of peril and dismay. The amount of the King
more honourable. The King was the fountain of all property was. unknown to him (the Chancellor
honour, and it was the duty of the House not to suffer Exchequer) ; but the Honourable Baronet
those honoured, or their descendants, to languish in not mean to say he did not know the limits ins
poverty and wretchedness. . i sion List, which was tied down to no gr
Mr. SUMNER stated that Lord Lake had gone 12001. a year, which would not yield :et ab'