The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-17 00:00:00

Cbtrb Ntittion

SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock.

COMMITTEES on PETITIONS PETITIONS and
PRIVATE BILLS.--(THIS DAY.)

COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE BILLS.
The Committee on Private Bills sat to-day, to
ascertain whether the standing orders had been com-
plied with in the applications for private Bills for the
different lines of railroad proposed to be formed, in
the Sub •Committee Room, No. 6. The Committee
declared that the standing orders had been complied
with in reference to the following Bills :
Manchester, Burnley Branch: and Oldham and
Heywood Branch extension.
London and South-Western Railway, (No. 1) Me-
tropolitan Extension.
Ashton, Stalybridge, and Liverpool Junction Rail-
way (Ardwick and Guide Bridge branches).
Leeds and West Riding Junction.
West Yorkshire.
Leeds, Dewsbury, and Manchester Junction
Railway.

Rich-mond (Surrey).
MANCHESTER AND LEEDS LINE.
Notices of opposition to this line was served on be-
half of Mr. John George Smith, of Yorkshire, on the
grounds that the standing orders of the House had
not been complied with, under several heads, to wit,
that certain owners and occupiers of land, marked on
the map, had not been served with the requisite
notices, though they are owners of lands through
which the proposed line is to pass : that the standing
order, requiring that the petition should be presented
t) the House three clear days before the first sitting
of the Sub-Committee, had not been complied with,
inasmuch, as the petition was not presented until
Thursday last.
The Committee decided that this latter objection
was not valid.

Evidence as to the validity of the other objections
was then gone into.
PUDSEY GAS COMPANY.

The Committee also declared that the standing
order of the House had been complied with in re-
ference to the Pudsey Gas Company's Bill.

TATTERSALL'S.-THIS EVENING.
SLY O'CLOCK.

CIIESTER CUP.
10 to 1 agst Setniseria—taken
16 to 1 agst Era
18 to 1 agst Obscurity
22 to 1 agst Cataract
23 to 1 agst Celeste
25 to 1 agst St. Lawrence
25 to 1 agst Zanoni
25 to 1 agst \Vinesour
27 to agst Strathspey
30 to 1 agst The Pride of Kildare
30 to 1 agst Pug
33 to 1 agst Agriculture
50 to 1 agst Seaport
60 to 1 agst Foig-a-ballagh.
DERRY.

10 to 1 agst Alarm
14 to 1 ast Cobweb colt
15 to 1 agst hedger
20 to 1 agst Pam—taken
25 to 1 agst Newsmonger—taken
30 to 1 agst Mentor
30 to 1 agst Old England
33 to 1 agst Miss Whip colt
35 to 1 agst Ironmaster
50 to 1 agst Annandale
50 to 1 ag,t Connaught Ranger
50 to 1 agst Fuzbos

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.
(THIS EVENING.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.

The LORD CHNIKCELLOR took his seat on the Wool-
sack at five minutes past five o'clock.
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE.

Lord CAMPBELL laid on the table a Bill for the
improvement of the administration of justice in Scot-
land in cases where parties got into debt and then re-
moved from the jurisdiction of the law in this country.
He was happy to say that the Bill had been drawn
by his Right Hon Friend the L'Jrd Advocate of
Scotland.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord also laid
on the table a similar Bill with respect to Scotland.
The Earl of STRADBROKE presented a petition
from the medical practitioners of Suffolk against the
Medical Reform Bill.
Lord BEAUMONT laid on the table of the House
a Bill for giving compensation to the friends of per-
sons killed by accident.
RAILWAYS.

Lard BROUGHAM, seeing the Noble Lord at
the head of the Beard of Trade in his place,
wished to know whether he had any objection to lay
on the table the returns he had moved for with re-
spect to the Railway Board?
The Earl of DALHOUSIE hal no objection to
the production of the returns. With respect to the
case of Mr. O'Brien, he could assure the Noble Lord
that the assertions that had been made were totally
without foundation.
Lord BROUGHAM had found that the informa-
tion he had received was perfectly correct. Mr. W.
O'Brien had purchased 204 shares in the South-
Fa3tern Railway stock on the 14th of December,
and by the rule that had been laid down, when per-
sons made purchases, and the broker could not furnish
the whole he had undertaken to do, an advertisement
A 4 as issued, and that was placarded about, stating the
shares that were required. The consequence was
that Mr. O'Brien's name was placarded for 204 shares ;
that, therefore, gave the public the first idea of the
matter. The instant his (Mr. O'Brien's) name ap-
peared, the shares in that railway mounted up, be-
cause he had purchased these 204 shares. If he
(Lord Brougham) or other Noble Lords had pur-
chas-xl them, such might not have been the case; but
it was different with Mr. O'Brien. He (Lord
Brougham) had not before heard a word upon the
subject, but his suspicions had been aroused—he had
thought such a thing likely to happen, and those sus-
picions turnel out to be the actual tact. The Board
of Trade, in coming to the resolutions which they
afterwards reported, did so more or less in
the dark. Then these reports were laid before
Parliament—that was to assist Parliament ; but
Low could they assist Parliament, having founded
their opini,ms upon mere party statements—the state-
ments of the parties concerned. Why, they might as
well believe in so many fables. Then came the de-
feated men, and said—" We have collected a cloud
of evidence, and we will go before a Committee of

tne House of Commons." liut he (Lord Brougham)
said they were too late, the decision had been against
them, and it would be found that, in 99 cases out of
100, that decision was final. A Noble Lord (Lord
Stanley) raid that that decision was not binding upon
he House, bat that they agreed to it because
it was a true one. But suppose that his Noble
Friend upon the Woolsack who was so conversant
with the business of the Court of Chancery, could
conceive of a Board of Masters who would decide
between parties without hearing evidence, would not
such a mode of deciding rival claims be searching in
the dark—groping in the dark ? But then supposing
that they reported in favour of one of these parties.—
The LORD CIIANCELLOR—I should accept
the Report.—(Laughter.)
Lord BROUGHAM—Very likely.—(Continued
laughter.)—But seriously, he thought this one of the
greatest interferences with private interests, and with
the commerce of the country. There were
millions, and tens of millions interested in
these questions, and continually changing hands.
Men might say, " I have 17,0001. in a line reported
against"—another might say, " I have but
10,0001. ;" and all this by a report emanat-
ing from a board which heard no evidence,
He womicted whether it was true that the North
Kent line had been rejected upon the narrowest pos-
sible majority. Whether General Pasley and Mr.
Porter were against the South-Eastern line, and Mr.
Laing and his Noble Friend the other way. Mr.
O'Bri a, he understood, did not vote : consequently,
there were two for and two against. Mr. O'Brien,
however, was present, although he took no part in
the proceedings. Generally speaking, the mode of
not taking any part in any proceedings was to
absent ; such, however, was not the case with
civtvri O'Brien. As the Committee were equally
i
vot ded, his Noble Friend had to give the casting
onseque xi:ly there were three to two, although
with respect
to persons there were only two to two.
His Noble F riendwas no greater in authority after
a
giving two vote than he was after giving but one.
When these thingsis first
were communicated to him (Lord
Brougham) his
expression was, " Of course
this will be made known to the house of Commons—
of course, the kind of helpmoardaeukxiliary process which I
had been afforded will be
Cardwell, who was now a Melnnobwn to them." Mr.
er of the Govern-
ment, Was strongly in favour of
large powers being
given to the Board, but he distinctly stated
that the Board ought not to come to
any decision without examining
according to my Noble andlLearned Friend'seidece'
statement, admits that the matter is of infinite own
im-
portance. But he had received such numberless
communicaiions, complaining of the hardships they
had suffered in consequence of these decisions, that,
unless his opinion was changed by the information he
should receive, lie should feel it to be his bounden
duty to bring a motion before their Lordships, with
the intention of having the whole of these reports
fully discussed.
Lord DALIIOUSIE said, with respect to the
question put by his Noble and Learned Friend
with respect to the number of shares held
by Mr. William O'Brien, he did not know whether
that Gentleman expected him to answer it. It was no
business of his, and he should postpone anything he

had to say on the subject until the Noble and Learned
Lord brought forward his promised motion. But,
with respect to the defence of any particular member
of the Board to which he belonged, he should, on
every occasion, stand forward for the purpose of
placing the facts in their proper light, and refuting
any statements which were not founded in truth.
With respect to the other question, viz., that his
Noble and Learned Friend has learned by informa-
tion that the South-Eastern scheme was decided this
way, the only answer he could give was this—his
Noble and Learned Friend had wondered if his in-
formation was really fact, and it was his duty to have
the Noble and Learned Lord to wonder on.
Lord BROUGHAM—I don't wonder now ;I am
perfectly satisfied.
Lord DALHOUSIE—The Board of Trade was
founded upon similar arrangements made by other
Boards. A person was placed at its head by Parlia-
ment, to whom this person was parliamentaeily re-
sponsible. Would any Noble Lord be justified in
asking a question relative to the decision of the Board
of Admiralty, or the Board of Customs ? Would
any Noble Lord be justified in asking how this
Honourable Member voted, and that Honourable
Member voted ? Certainly not ; and upon the
same principle he was justified in allowing the Noble
Lord still to wonder on. His Noble and Learned
Friend had made some observations on the subject of
the foundation of this Board. Now, his Noble and
Learned Friend would excuse him while he
stated hew this Board was originally esta-
blished. The question was raised before the other
House of Parliament, and after being fully discussed
in a Committee, it was resolved that railway Bills
should be subject to the examination of a Government
Board. That this Board should be entrusted to the
Board of Trade who should have power to establish a
railway department. With respect to the proceeding
of the Board. Unquestionably there were no wit-
nesses examined. But there was no other kind of
evidence. Documentary evidence was brought before
them, and upon this evidence they had decided. He
repeated their decisions were not to be final, and
their influence would, of course, have to depend upon
their intrinsic merits. He thought, then, it was un-
just to condemn the decisions at that early period.
They ought to have a fair trial, and it was necessary
that the report of the Board of Trade should
be considered before this fair trial could be had.
When the Noble Lord thought proper to bring for-
ward the question with respect to the constitution of
the Board, be should be happy to meet him, and give
any information he might require ; but, at the present
moment, he must decline, upon the grounds of public
convenience, answering the questions seith respect to
the internal arrangments of the Board itself.
The Duke of WELLINGTON wished to say one
word with respect to Mr. O'Brien, as reports had
been circulated to his prejudice. He had had an
opportunity of knowing that Gentleman. He had
served in a most honourable way in the army; he
was respected by all ; and it was impossible for any
gentleman to stand higher in the service than he had
done. He (the Duke of Wellington) believed that
his conduct had been gentlemanly throughout, and
and that he was quite incompetent to commit the acts
that had been laid to his charge.
Lord BROUGHAM never meant to throw the
slightest imputation on Capt. O'Brien or his brother.
All he complained of was, the nature of the system
and its defective construction. He believed that the
information he had received was correct. As
to what passed in the House of Lords last
year, he had never heard of it till the
present moment. Ilis Noble Friend had said why not
take an objection to the matter at that time ? 1\ hy,
the truth was, that he had never heard of it, or he
certainly should have taken the objection. He did
not think that anything in the proceedings that had
taken place in the Board of Trade had arisen from
reading the reports. There could be no doubt that
the stock of the Company had risen to a most unac-
countable height in a very short time, but what was
the cause of it he could not tell.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE stated that the scheme
had been laid before the House last year, and if any
objections were to be made, what he said was, that
they might have been made then ; but he did not
mean by that to preclude his Noble Friend from
taking the objection at any time he thought proper.
After sonic further observations from several
Noble Lords, the subject then dropped.
Some further business was then transacted, and
their Lordships adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.

Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT, the new Secretary-at-War,
took the oaths and his seat for South Wiltshire.
THE MALT-TAX.

Mr. TUITE presented thirteen petitions, praying
fur the repeal of the malt-tax.

IMPRISONMENT FOR DEB r.

Mr. BROADLEY presented petitions from places
in Yorkshire, praying for the repeal of the Act of the
7th and Bth Victoria, doing away with imprisonment
for debt in certain cases.