The Sun.
London, England, 1820-02-19 00:00:00

HOUSE OF CONIMONS.

About forty I\lf-whirs took the oaths, if monv,
Whom were Sir R. Petri, Sir J. Stewart, Lord J.
t•evvart-, Lord Gower, Lord Joeviyo, Lord Low-
ther, Lord Arivy, Sir W. Curtis,

INsOLVENT DEBTORS' ACT.
Sir W. Cul:TiS presented a petition from the
Debtors in the New Priaon, Wititecross-street,
l'idYiti; for a tent« al of the Insolvent Debtors'
Act.—Ordered to lie on-the table.
Mr. Aittucttom%Y presented a petition from the
Debtors in .he Kiog's Bench iSon, praying that
the present law respecting Insolvent Debtors !tiny
be continued. 'lilt wounds on which this prayer
rested he viewed as unquestionalte goOd. The
Petitiooets stated, that hen the bill of last year
was brought to and passed for the tortber COO-
tinuantt of the insolvent Debtots' Art, (which
would expire on the 23d of next month,) it xsaa
eiaatly the object of the Legislature, when the
suhieet was next taken up, to enter ()pun it with
three toll effective months befote them to discuss
and mature the itea•:oce propoaeol to be introduc-
ed hy a Noble Lord. He hoped the Gentlemen'
opposi(e, in their anxiety to (IMolve the present
Parliament, dttl not ott::nt to dissolve all- the laws
respecting lusol-vent D.lttots.• To him it appear-
ed that no serious olij,ction could be opposed to
the prayer of the petition.
'Flue CHANCFI.LOR of the ENCHRQUER thought,
whatever might be the state of the House, there
coulti he no objection to attend to the prayer of
this petition. The subject was one of great im-
portance. lle for his part had hero much iu tak-
eout- of that Bill to which so many objections had
been made. He felt obliged to the Noble Lord
(Altborpe) who had brought forward a 14,11 to
supply a remedy to those inconveniences witich
had been tat tar atise trout it, and hoped that he
would persevere in his labotos to accomplish an
obj,et so inaportaht. It was, however, due to
himself and his colleagues to state, that this sub-
ject had not escaped their notice. 'fury had had
it iu contemplation to bring in a Bill to Continue
the present Act for a short period.
Lord ALTHORPE consideted the present Act to
be highly detrimental to the country. He was of
opinion that they would be much more likely to
(I() good by begiottiti.: de novo, (hall by continu-
ing the preseta Act, and bringing forward altera-
tions upon it. He woult: rather that the present
Act should he .offered to expire, that rite Bill
which he wished to htiug forward might be in-
troduced as a new measure. The Petition was
then ordeted to lie nit the table.
Sir NV. Dc CRESPIGNY presented a petition
Irons a Tradesman who hint) taken the Chair at
certain Parish Meetings at Newington, in Surrey,
and who had been the means of discovering and
of punishing great frauds on the part of the Col-
, lector of King's Taxes in that parish. The Col-
lector hail been lined 10001. tilt ()ugh the exertions
of the petitioner, who had been very inadequately
remunerated for what he had done, as lie had re-
ceiied trot') the Commissionets only 1501. for his
trouble. lie thetefore prayed for justice.
Ordered to lie on the table.

commiTTEE ON 'CRIMINAL LAWS.
Mr. F. BUXTON said, the Chairman of the
Committee on Criminal LAWS last year had given
notice, b rote the Recess, of a motion for reviv-
ing that Cumn►it►ee, hut some .circhmstances. had
then arisen which caused it to be doubted. whe-
ther there woi►ld then be time. to revive it. The
Chairman of drat Committee bad now desired him
to postpone the motion for the revival of the Com-
mittee, in consideration of the present situation of
the country. Doing this, he would take the li-
berty to state, for the information of Gentlemen in
that [lousy, .and for the information of a large
portion of the conimunity, who took an interest
in the labours of-that Committee, that it was the
intet►tion of the Hon. Member with whom it had
originated, to seek an early opportunity of resum-
ing his tabours, and he had no doubt he would
pursue them with all that zeal and ability by
which he had been distinguished in the last
Session of Parliament:

MISCELLANEOUS.
Dr. PHILLIMORE postponed the second rending -
of the Maninge Amendment Bill till Friday next.
On the Motion of Sir W. LEMON, lICCOUHIS
of
the Copper exported wiihin the last year were or-
dered to be laid before the [louse.
The Committee of Supply and Ways and Means
was postponed till Monday.
Mr. HUTCHINSON, from the Bank of England,
presented accounts of the Balances of Cash in.the
hands of the Bank.--)rdered to be printed.
Mr. PAYNE, ItOM the City of London, pre-
sented a return of :II Vagrants committed to
.t he
Gaols of the Ciry; from the Ist January 1819,
to the Ist January 1520; distinguishing the pri-
sons to which they had been committed, and -the
expence incurred on their account.—Ordered to
lie on the table.
Mr. YATES, from the Pay Office, presented ac-
counts of the total expenditure of the yeats 1799
and 1813, and the sums voted fur that Depart-
ment in•lBl9.—Oidered to lie on the table.

TETE KING'S' MESSAGE.
Lord CASTLEIthAGH 1110t;cd, that the Order of
the Day for taking his Majesty's most gracious
Message into consideration should be read.
The Message was then real by the'ClelL
Lord CASTLEREAGH, in rising to move an Ad-
dress to his Majesty-on the most gracious Mes-
sage which had just been- read, thought it might
be convenient to the [louse drat he should now
state to them the course which Ministers were of
opinion, in the present sate of the country, it
would be most expedient to pursue. It would
strike the House that the situation of the country
Was different trom what it might hay.e been 'on the
demise of the Crown.- In the present instance,
the great mass of the business of the year in Par.
liontent had not been entered •upon. Th.it which
had occupied them before the Recess related al.
most wholly to particular matters, totally uncoil-
cted will: the ordinal y business of the Session.
Under these circumstances a dissulutiun ut Par-

lianvent was thought advisable. it was obvious
that but two courses were open to Ministers ; ei-
ther they most ptoceed, with the existing Parlia-
ment, to go theOugh the whole business of the
Session, which might occasion some difficulty, as
their existence could not be prolonged ; or a part
of it only must be brought before them, and the
remainder reserved for a newt, Parliament. It was
thought that it would be extremely unfair in the
Government tp select any part of the business to
bring before them, and if it• were attempted to
submit to them the whole, the Crown might he
placed in a very awkward situation, from being
obliged to cut their proceedings prematurely short
by a Dissolution. The alternative, that on which
they had to decide, was, either to bring the whole
business of the year before the present Parliament,
or none. Placed in this situation, and looking
at tho'se alterations which it was necessary to
propose to certain laws, it had beili thought that
any measure [nought in for such a purpose, dia-
log the continuance of the present Parliament,
would not be regarded with the same view to its
continuance, as the same measure would if adopt-
ed in a new Parliament. On this ground a Dis-
solution might appear to be in some respects de-
Sirable, and lie had no difficulty in saying, that
the public interest, the public morals, and, he
might add, the public tranquillity, all called upon
them riot to leave the country -open for any ex-
tended period to that agitation which must grow
on the expectation of a General Election. With
th;:, impression on their minds, his Majesty's Mi-
nist.rs had decided oh doing the business of the
year in a new Parliament, and had therefore ad-
vised his Majesty to dissolve the present. He was
aware that it had been common for the Patliatneut
first sitting after the demise of the King, to make
a provision for the Crown, and for a great pro-
portion of the Civil List of the Country. Under
circumstances different from those in which the
country was now placed, it would have been
their wish that this precedent should have been
followed on the present occasion. Butt, on con-
sidering the subject, a variety of objections had
presented themselves. In the first place, it was
felt that some time must elapse before Ministers
could be prepared to submit to the HOuse any
proposition on the subject of the Civil List, and
it was, then, to be remembered, that the House
might requite some time also to make up their
mind to ally arrangement that might be suggest-
ed. Thus a considerable period might elapse
before the subject could be disposed of, and Mi-
nisters did not think that they could venture on
such a course without the risk of placing the
House in a very awkward situation—without a
chance of being obliged to cut short their dis-
cussions, and leave a part of the arrangement to
be completed by a new Parliament. To him it
appeared that nothing could be more inconve-
nient than to drive'off the consideration of this
subject to that period of the year when a full at.
tendance was not to be expected ; and in the next
few months they could hardly look for a calm and
full discussion of this question. That constant
and steady attendance which could be wished for
was not to be calculated upon, while Gentlemen
were naturally looking with anxiety to what wag
so immediately connected with their own interests
as the coming election. It was, tberdure thought
best that the business of the year should be traps-
acted in a new Parliament ; this was accotdingly
advised, and it was thought the fairest course that
could be taken was to notify this to the House,
that they might be aware of the views and inten-
tion of Government. He would stow proceed to
state the particular course which it was intended
to pursue. With respect to the private business,
it was now nearly in the same situation in which
it had stood on the occasion of a former dissolu-
tion. At I hat time an arrangement was made for re-
surnieg the prosecution of chat businessoaking it op
in the new Parliament in the same stage at which it
bad arrived when the old 'Parliament was dissolv-
ed. The precedent it was proposed to follow in
the present instance ; and it wbuld be satisfac-
tory for the House to know, that in this way they
might avoid making it the cause of any private in-
convenience. With respect to the public business,
Government wished to place the new Parliament
as nearly as possible in the sante state as the pre-
sent at its termination. He understood that the
grants already made were sufficient t'o carry on
the public service during the interval that must
elapse before the new Parliament could meet
They proposed then to continue the Mutiny Bill to
the 25th of June. Such Bills as would expire
previous to the 25th of June they also meant to
continue in force up to that period ; and adopting
this course, the new Parliament would find itself as
nearly as possible in the same situation with the
present. Shook) that course of proceeding be
adopted, which Ministers were disposed to recom-
mend, they might rise by the end of the present
month. If the dissolution took place by the Ist
of March, the new Petliament might meet on or
about the 25th of. April, and at that time the pub-
lie business .might be entered upon with a pros-
pect of such an attendance as its importance requir-
ed. lie was not aware that he bad any thing
more to state to the House, but he should be happy
to afford anv information in his power that might
be demanded, and to answer any question that
might be asked from the opposite side of the
House. He then concluded by moving an Ad-
dress, thanking his Majesty for his gracious Corn•
munication, anti assuring, him of their readiness to
adopt such measures as the situation of the coun-
try might demand.
Mr. TIERNEY did not intend to trespass long
on the House. lucked lie hat: hardly any thing
in the world to state, from the surprize that he
had felt after what he had heard—that the House
was to rise by the Ist, of March, and that in the
mean time such and such utrasures %vete neces-
sary to be adopted. A Communication like that
which they had now received had never occurred
on the accession of any. Monarch since the Ite-
volutioo. The Home had always been treated in
a different way. In all former cases, it had been
common for a speech to be Made front the fhron,,
setting forth the feelings of the new Monarch,
and stating .what be meant to do. All this was
dispensed with now, anti. the King was advised
to do nothing more than tell thernalryly, that they
ought tttl uo It,s-sent very speedily about their bu-
siness. He did not say that exactly the same
course ought 'to be taken that had been pursued

on former occasions, but still he thought more
might have been done than bad been done. The
only notice taken of the House was that to which •
he had alluded, and which announced their diesel.
lotion to be at hand. To him this appeared soase•
what indecorous, hut there was another objection
to it. He was much inclined to think that the
course which bad been trues-wed was unconstints-•
(lanai. On all former occasions the King bad -
been made. to express a hope that his Common.
would make gaol those hereditary funds which
had failed with the death at his predecessor, and
which it was for them to supply. This went to
recognize a right in the Commons to make that
provision which was essential to sustain the splett•
dour of the Throne, and this right ought, in his
opinion, to' be distinctly recognized, as he could
not forget that there were some who contended
that the hereditary revenues of the Sovereign be
had a right to claim and to enjoy without being
subject to the control of Parliament. He denied
that the revenues enjoyed by the Sovereign were
to be considered. There were - certainly soma •
hereditary revenues which the King might claim
of right, but those usually voted by the Commona
were not of this description. In the last case of
a demise of the Crown, the new King had called
on Parliament in the first instance to make that
provision which was necessary to maintain the
splendour of the Throne. Could any one doubt.
trout the course now pursued, that there was a
something behind which- it was not intended
should immediately come out, Since Minister*
had departed so widely from the ordinary courses
it could not be doubted that they had some gout&
reason for not bringing forward the Civil List
now as had been done on all former occasions.--'
The Noble Lord had said that it would take thetas.
so much time to prepare for submitting to the
House a question on the subject of rite Civil List'
that it could not be thought of at present. Nolt
this he thought very odd, as, within the last toot
or five years, a very voluminous report had bees
produced (in 1816) at the suggestion of Mini'
stet's, by which these matters were placed On a
new footing. This the House had been told tea'
to remove all difficulties on the subject ; yet no°
to bring forward the Civil List, at the commence.
ment of a new reign, they Nvere given to notice!'
stand was more difficult their ever. He then re'
verted to the course which had commonly bee°
taken in former times, and desired to know vvtOf
difficulty could really lie in the way of bringig
in a Bill on the precedent that bad been est"'
blished, to continue the Civil List on its 1:
sent footing, if !hat of the new King were in(en7; •
ed to be the same. The Noble Lord had it'
them that much inconvenience would he sittiete"
if the House did not rise by the Ist of Mak;
He (Mr. Tierney) wished to know why the pubil
business could not be gone thiough with in
,slie
next six mouths ? But now to go on, the Isiouio
Lord had round out would be to take the t
business at a most inconvenient ttitae,aud also, tlij2o
tt,e proper time for entering upou would be
bc M
ginoing of ay. Hitherto this had trot ees.'
tie case. At tilat time, the attendance :0„1
found to fall off, and the most convenient Peri„h
for proceeding with, the principai public busiro—io
tas ,oppoked to arrive before Easter. When
At
Noble Lord spoke- of the necessity of b
a lit
the dissolution at the time he mr-ntione"! •
ovet looked the situation of the Countre tttlt
manner that must excite surprise. Good Glog
did lie forget the Assizes ? Uici lie not kw,,''
the Assizes would be taking place all over !0$
country at the time that it was proposed
.to brl to
on a Genera Election ? If it were Wishe't
find one period inure inconvenient than anotiee,
at which a General Election should take Piticej
chi; was tlie. period which it might be supPso.,'
Wright be 5,1, teed. When such a course wa91)01,0
sued, every one mast be satisfied that there to..
some good reason for it—that there was mote ,'fit
hind than Ministers thought proper to state- jos
himself-personaily, as the dissolution must to,
place soon,.he would rather that it shouia art
tuorronvt ban that it should stand over for a
time ; but still, he could not that tit 01-00
be most incon-,:enient for the country gene :'{°
that it should take place at the time proposet"e jia
return to the subject of the Civil L'st ; ore
not exactly nutlerstand whether it was pf"e„be
to make any grant at all previous to the 04"
lion of Parliament. It would be well tlOtatf
should be stated, that they might know hoW bd
were going on. Was any giattt intended l° •

moved ?
Lord CASTLEREAGH replied in the arti rmsti4l"
Ft'
Mr. TIERNEY then desired to know it it 05
tended to take a vote of credit ? it,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER star ;ti
was his intention to move for a grant to 11'447 10
the expences of the Civil List to the
April, taking the amount to be the s4one -4"
E
present. fire
Mr. TIERNEy understood from the Noble —dot!.
that when the time !velum(' by the Right job'
Gentleman should arrive, the new 1)4'01°30
would not be assemhltd, and Smile time fostil,
elapse during which the Crown would pogie;-,rol'
funds over which V.,iliartrent had any
It mattered not whether the period Were A -tilt'
a month, or a year ; he held it to beoncol"fia,
tional for the Clown thus to be left in a sii:3osd':•:
which felnoveci it front the controld of !bat 1.1f:leel
and ‘s as there any necessity for this It; ttl
was, he conld not see h. If there were 0
avoidable difficulty, he shmild wish to eniciPeciti
nivers to get oot of it. But, in the preiel't the
they were
.rutinit,g into a difficulty where hod
was no occasion for it, and he wished „
why they should do this, and object to "rircif
ordinary course of proposing a tote for 5
stills on account of the Civil List. • It wag
that the Noble Lord urged those ohjectili:o!
this course which he had stated to the 131:s
It had not been shown that any alteo64)!l
the. Civil List were necessary. L
s Lie C"'"
ee that any were necessary, 'any
that some expences might be taken 1
-
consequence of the demise of the 0:4-0.
1-le, when be saw such conduct on the r, 4
'Ministers, could' only come to• •thi's Col";ro,
that there was SOlnething behind colote'c' tr
.the Civil List, whiCh they did not- tv.oll
spire. lie did notrneati to enlirge theol
ject, as he could not expeet.to be listenol:
4
much attention, for he knew that 6°l'

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heads were more in the country than in. town at
present—more occupied with cockades, music, and
the other accompaniments of elections, than he
cOuld expect that they would be with any thing
that he might say. lie could not expect that the
subject would be discussed at present ; he could
only do his duty by protesting against the conduct
• .4,1M-inisters. The departure from the ordinary
51";1ctice, he insisted, was wholly unnecessary. Be-
foie the last recess the 1-louse had voted a force of
DOI •fewer than 11,000 additional men, in conse-
ittPAce of the then disturbed state of the country.
Ile, felt no alarm at the sta!e of the c,ototry now, and
he believed that there were nt-ver sounder sleepers
Oran the subjects of his present Molest V Why then
‘Virsbe called upon to let these 11,000 men re-
bain a charge to the country till the 25:1t of
June ; and if he did so, what cha'ice would lie
fhttve of successfully opposing their being conti-
ri,ired then. Every one knew, that after the King's
iiirth,day, as it was caVed, the 4th of Jotte, no
Nnendanee emild be procured Without difficolty.
• hut then Ministers miglo reply, the subject might
he brought on sooner. This was as it ili'ght hap-
but they must heal in mind how great the
Pressure of public business would be in the wow!)
tel May, lie thought the Noble Lord was bound
to state now what were his objections to br,inging
forward the Civil List in the usual way, as it
u'ottltl not at all interfere with the rising of Par-
11.4atent at the time he hail mentioned, since the

three Acts ►which might be necessary, could he
%set! in one single day ; and, tor. Ins part, he
• tli►l not see whence opposition. to them was to

Lord CASTLEREAGH reminded the Right Horn ►
Cite!!!letnau that the present case was perfectly
distinct fro,.i any that had preceded it. It was '
necessary for the Crown to open to a Parliament
the business to be submitted to it in a speech
from the Throne. But it were advisable that
the existing Parliament should not be renitired to
go through the business of the year (and the
Crown's corning to such a deci•ion io the preseet
case he had stithed) then be aperehended that it
*as not natural to adopt that course which the
flon. Gentleman bad thought ought to be
Preferred. Now, with respect to the Civil List, if
44Y, doubt could be entertained on the suhject of
Vie constitutional controul of Pat liament not
bring recoguiaed by Ministers, that do,ibt
*mild be removed by the intention which they
hail announced of coining to that House
lc' make such a grant o s account, as should
Prevent the accumulation of any at r ear,
before the assembling of the new Parlia-
!neut. On that occasion the question could he
discussed. When it was known that tl.ose Re-
'venues called Hereditary, which were strictly he-
seditary, were such in amount that the Crown
never could in Any case maintain its splendour but
by throwing itself open to the linerality of P,r-
linilient, all suspicion must be set at rest. It
lutist be clear, that the course adopted by Mini-
eters could not leave the smallest doubt that it
Was their intention to act On the principle which
had been acted on in every similar instance. The
ltight non. Gentleman had stated, that !he Civil
List had been recently arranged, so as to guard
'against the occurrences of future difficulties. The
arrangement alluded to he had approved at the
time of its being made ; but because he approved
of it, then did it follow that it was equally appli-
cable to another reign If Ministers bad taken
a different course, the argument of the Right Hon.
Gentleman might have been revelled with touch
"wire effect. He would state Ministers were ,
'anxious to meet all their embarrassments. Ile
Would assure the Right Honourable Gentleman,
that if he thought there was any disposHoll On
the part of the Government to take the di•cussion
orthe Civil List in a new Parliament rather than
in this, tie did oot do them justice. They had
been well satisfied with the present Parliament on
every occasion, and he had no doubt, that if-the
question were broiight before them, they would
he well disposed to provide for the Civil List with
ill due regard for eco,orny, but with that wise
liberality e.trich would prevent the Crown from
incurring debts, which it had always been felt
.ought to be avoided. He therefore thought that
he had a -right to claim for Ministers that they
should have time allowed thetn, under all the pe-
culiar circumstances of the case, to weigh well
the proposition which they would have to bring
forward on this subject,befors they submitted it to
Parliament.
Mr. TIERNEY contended, that the Civil List
p.oght to have been brought forward without del uy.
lo Providing for it lie was always anxious to guard
against incurring debts. He would give the Crown
n° More than was necessary, but still enough to
nave it from the necessity of inclining debts. The
110'")tiot of the personal expences of the King had
been regulated on a Report from a Committee of
that, House three or four years ago.
"-he CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Could not
„ Ltlit
able under.at the view which the Right Honour-
fir,, Gentleman had taken of the subject. In the
a Place, he had supposed that there was no
inut"rity for considering any of the funds belong-
g to the Crown as hereditary revenues.
Mr. "1- teaNEY begged to say, that lie hal ad-
riitted that considerable hereditary revenues be-
hthr,ed to the Crown : not the whole of what had
--so been called.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained
the arrangements made by the Consolidation Act
131 1786, and -other Acts. The hereditary 'eve-
n, "es of the Crown lie showed would be wholly
mstifficient to answer the put poses of the Civil
List. At present the Crown possessed no more
ire hereditar y revenues than 5 or 600,0001. He
intended to move for a grant on the earliest day
On Monday next), in order ..to make good such
payments-as might be necessary before the sub-
ject could be again submitted to the considera-
tion of Parliament. The grant which be pro-
Posed .to move would guard against the accu-
mulation of any arrear before the 25th of
"_April, when it was proposed that the new
Parliament should • assemble, and between that
Pe" and the :ill! of July there would be
upporiunitit s for 'amply discussing t he subject. By
Alne corn h'e jell it ks as proposed should be taken,
:1101 only would the authority of Parliament over.
the Civil List be rectignized, but all the ittconvc-
eicects that had been apprehended would he oh-
lie showed that the rummer in which the

Civil List was now granted was different from
that in which it was formerly granted ; that the
conditions were multiplied; and that the reason-
ing which might once nave been applied to it was
no longer applicable. He had much satisfaction
in stating, that instead of any additional burthen
being thrown ou tie people, a considerable sav-
ing might be made by, a new arrangement.—
(Hear, bear, hear !)—Ministers had no wish to
employ a greater force than they were autlio.
rized to employ by Parliament ; -but it would be
remembered that, in the last Session, a provision
was made for a considerable force, which was af-
terwards disbanded. Those retained, even with
the augmentation which had taken place, still fell
short of the number which had been voted, so that
.1 renewal ut the Mutiny Bill would authorize
Ministers to maintain eken a larger number of
Hoops on foot than were at present in arms. All
that was necessary now to be biought under the
considera,ion of Parliament would be au Act to
continue the Mutiny Bid, one to renew the Ex-
piring Law 4, and one to make a grant On account
of the Civil List. These would all be very short
and very simple. He had further the satisfaction
to observe, that there was no immediate want of
money, as the stun• remaining from the grants of
last year, it was expected would be fully suffi-
cient.

Mr. Hume said, the [louse was aware that there
was an Act, the 54th of Gro. 111. c. IGO, which
granted the Prioress ~f Wales, now Queen, an
annuity of 35,0001 By the demise of the King
this was done away. tie wished to a<k if the Act
he had tnetcioi.cd was intended to be continued
with the other laws about to expire ?
Lord CASTLE E said, that pains had been
takeo to guard a!yiust any inconvenknce being
felt in tho qoarer which had been alluded to.
Mr. BaouGnam had been so anticiparpl in the
view which he took of the conduct of Ministers,
by the observations nt his Might Lion. Friend -
(Mt. Tierney), that lie had very little' to trouble
the [louse with. At the same time, he felt it ne-
cassat y to say something on the very extraordi-
nary course which hat been parsued. With
re,peet to :he subject broached just now by his
Hon. Friend (Mr. he did not mean to
say one word about it. He believed he might as-
sume that this teas the first time that such a com-
munication had been made to than House as that
which was I:0W before them, :Ind he was certain,
that it was the first time that :a communication
so precise and ..pecific had ever been made from
the Throne to announce a dissolution of Patna-
went. To dissolve a Parliament had been consi-
dried one of the most sacred and peculiar prero-
gatives of the Crown, and as often as it had
been tottch-d upon, those who spoke on it had
been answered by some Minister, that they were
not to attempt to bring this two debate, as Par-
liament IVtIS not competent to broach,or to enter-
tain, a question on its own existence. This was
stated without affecting that right (cdtich lie
should be perhaps one of the last men in that
House to deny) of calling in ques,ion the conduct
of Ministers, by giving the Crown !hat advice on
which it had thus exercised its discretion. The
House wai now placed in a new situation, as it
was called upon to give an opinion on the question,
whether or not the dissolution about to take place
has been well advised. called upon, it was
not surprising that the House should proceed
to the discussion. It was now for them to
decide, aye or no, whether they ought to he dis-
solved or not. For himself, personally, he cared
not how soon the dissolution took place, and
should rejoice in its occorriog within a very short
peri,ll. But he thought it his doty to make one
or two remarks. In the first place, lie bad to pre-
some that Ministers had considered the suns of.
inconvenience which would be occasioned if an
election took place all over the Country in the
very middle of the Assizes. He presumed that
this bad been considered. But it appeared to him
that no opportunity c wild be afforded to the Judges
to delay their sittings as they had done on a for-
mer occasion, for the Easter Term would come so
quick upon them, that they would have no time
to come and go if this were attempted; and that
could not be done now which was done in a for-
mer instance during the long vacation. He had to
congratulate the Home on one admission, late
and tardily as it had beets made, that there was
henceforth no cause for alarm on account of the
state of the country. It would be remembered
that the last time they met, such was stated to be
its situation—such the vice that had crept in
among the lower classes, that they were not merely
discontented, but disaffected to the Government,
and conspiring to overthrow the Constitution of
their country. Plots against the Government
were then said to exist, which made it necessary
to call on Padiament to pass some of the strongest
measures that could be adopted to put down
the disaffection which existed all over the
realm. To these the Gentlemen on his side of the
House objected, but they were told that the facts
were such as to make the coercive measures then
recommended necessary, and they passed. The
dissolution would at once put an end to one of the
measures then deemed so necessary, and we should
again be plunged into that state which but a few.
weeks ago was contemplated as one of such immi-
-1 neat dangeri No man who bad heard the argu-
ments urged on the opposite side could doubt the
real motive, (he did not say any thing against the
: dissolution,) for postponing the consideration
of the Civil List. He believed (and every
one would- laugh at him were lie to affect
I not to believe it) that their object might be ex-
pressed its one short sentence—that it was their
wish that it slt•old be left untouched, seeing
that it woald be a much more handy thing
for those concerned in arranging the Civil List to
• bring it forward and have it disposed of by'a new
Parliament,' rather than by one on its death-bed,
which could not exist more than six months, and
. which might be dissolved as soon as it had given
its assent to the proposed arrangement. These
were his feelings on the course pursued by Ali-
: nisters ; he had no objection to the intended this-
! solution. .

Mr. CANNING said, the attention of the House
had been called 10 a new cpiestion by the
Learned Geutletuan. He would lead the House
to suppose that something hit ked behind which
Ministers were -afraid to avow. lie did not
kLow how to answer thi,, but by ,:enying that

any thing was kept out of sight that his
Majesty's Ministers were not prepared to debate,
if fit opportunity offered for doing so. The Learn-
ed Gentleman could oppose Ministers on the de-
bate on the grant Proposed for the Civil. List ;
but the question which would be brought before
the House would be framed with a just regal,: to
economy, and at the same time with that (the
absence of which the House would resent) care
to maintain the dignity of the Crown which was
necessary. Whether Ministers consulted these two
objects was the only subject which could with
propriety be discussed. The Hon. aid. Learned
Gentleman had taken two objections to a debate
on the dissolution of Parliament; and if he had
understood him right, there never had been :etch
a debate brciught forward, or attempted to be
brought forward, but those most active, in it were
in a manlierground down by the opposition of the
/louse. The Learned Gentleman might remember
that Addresses to the Crown hed been moved and
carried in that House, praying the Sovereign not
to interfere with their proceedings by dissolving
the PatliamAtt, and that answers to such ad-
dresses had been returned from the troe•n, as-
suring them that nothing of the kied was intend-
ed. When he recollected that such proceedings
had taken place, what there was nee.' in 'he course
now to he pursued he could not sce, trod how the
present proeeedieg trenched on the constitutioeel
tights of Parliament he had yet to learn. Both the
Right Honooreble aced the Hon. and Learned
Geutleman had argued as if to prolong the exist-
ence of Varliament after the demise of the Crown
had been the old, recognized, and common law of
the country. it - was herdiy accessary for
hint to say, that tic law and the prectice
had been the other way. By tile old Con-
stitution of the Country, the Parliemeot
hail terminated with the life of the
It had been necessary to pass a special Act,
to- give Parliament an additional existence in par-
ticular cases, and prolong its sitting, for various
reasons, beyond that period at which it wool('
naturally expire. The Act providing that Parka-
meta should continue to sit for sitemonths after
the demise of the Croivn had been passed in the
time of King William, with a view to a disputed
succession. In such a case, it was felt that it
would be exceediegly inconvenient that no
Parliament should be in existence at the time of
the demise of the Crown. The Act passed in
tile reign of King William was made retitle-
nent in the time of Queen Anne, hut with a view
to the same circumstance—front an apprehen--
sion of foreign interference, it was thought
equally necessary. It was true that since the
accession of George the First two cases of diffe-
rent character had occurred. It was true that in
those cases the Civil List had been determined on
by the first two Parliaments in those reieus. But
Gentlemen were aware that neither of the cases
were analogous to the present. It did not thence
necessarily follow, that a 'different course elrould
be pursued in titis instance Irons that which was
then preferred. But this he would contend, that,
though no deviation from that course was impos-
ed, still the cireinns! mice gave Ministers a lati-
tude of discretion. lu King Williatu'e time, the Act
was passed with a view to a spe=cific case. The same
was done in'thefollOwing reign. lie admitted
the accessions of George' 11. and George 111.
occurred under circomstaocre differing esseitii,l'y
from those to which those acts referred ; bw the
preseot accession lie would contend was not ana-
logous to either of the two which preceded
He was afraid that he bad not made hirneelt uo-
derstood. What be Meant Was :—ln the t iro
cases of King William and Queen Anne, a dis-
puted succession was apprehended, and on .het
ground the law in question had passed. 'l' he cases
of George 11. and-George DI. were differs et, and
so a course was followed which the Right Hon.
Gentleman and the Learned Gentlemeo were of
opinion ought to be followed now. Bit in his
judgmint the present accession was not analogous
to either, and therefore Parliament Was not obliged
to act on those precedents. In no case before
had the House been sitting at the time of the
demise of the Crown ; in no case before had the
Royal Authority been transferred previous to the
extinction of life in the illustrious wearer of the
Crown. The House had then to look to circum-
stances. During this they would find. Parliament
engaged in the discussion of matters the satisfac-
tory termination of which was hopeless within the
limited period allowed for their sittings by law.
'We find the public with an expectation (no matter
how excited or by whom) that a dissolution of Par-
liament must speedily take place. In this situation
of things it was for Ministers to consider what was
best to be done, and be thought the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman opposite (Mr. Brougham) who
was the first to take the field—who was the first to
sound the alarm to his constituents, or to those
be wished to be his constituents, wassOf all others
the pet son from whom he should least have ex-
pected that Ministers would tte accuses! of pre-
cipitation, because they had hastened to gratify
his sanguine and ardent expectations.—(A laugh.)
—They were anxious to be in the field as well as
hint, and to see the combat ; and they could not
but think it ungrateful in the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman 'that he should thus assail
them for having determined on giving him' an
opportunity of realising all the advantages which
he had promised himself. %Yid) so many opi-
nioes afloat in the country as were called forth
in the present instance, lie would ask if that
well and- steady attendance could be expected,
which were indispensable where discisseious of
such importance were to be brought "on ? Was it
to be expected that Gentlemen wont(' give their
attention to basiness—would devote their days
and nights to the public service, as regularly as
could be wished, while their minds were so pow-
erfully attracted to other objects ? Under,sech
circumstances, to dissolve the Parliament Seemed
tet hint to be the most proper course, and, in the
public notification of it which had been made, he
thought there was a degree 14 fairness in the con-
duct of Ministers, which had been tnet with-on no
similar occasion.

- Mr.
,BaouG,Ham. in explanation, complained
that the obsel vations applied to !lint rested on
a complete perversion of fact,. To 'nutke out
what be was inclined to, say, the Might Ho-
nourahle Gentleman on this, as on mitoY
other occasions,, had been oblii,ed to fabri-

cate part of a speech, and had thought proper
to make him "Complain of the •precipitation with
which Ministers proceeded to the dissolution.- He
would appeal to the House, if so far from Co
plaiting of it, he had not rejoiced in it for him-
self. The House had heard this, the Right
Gentleman had heard it, tend yet he thought proper
to represent him as lyaV.ing complained, when in
reality he had rejoiced. So much for this joke.—
As to a discussion never Navin4 taken place on the
subject of a dissolution, this was what lie had not
said. Bur be had asserted that a Minister of the
Crown, when this sobject was touched upon, had
always been ready to say to the House, `• this is
no business of yours." He wished to show that
it was un►constitutional to call on Parliament be-
forel►and to approve of its own dissolution.
• Mr. MACDQN.LD complained, that a series of
precedents had been proposed io he departed from
on the present occasion, without any special rea-
son. tie contended that the course which had
been pursued by former Kings of England was
pioved by the manner in which it had bee:► 'met
'by the people tbrough their Representatives, to
be that which migl►t safely have been resorted to
on the present occ,Hon. Front the- conduct of
rlit►inter, in this instance, it seemed probable that
tl,ey were conscious their views woutd not stand
the test of a General EleetiOn,

q'he question was then put and agrced to.
GRAMPOUND, PENRYN,(:.\MELFORD,.AND BARN-

ti'i`~l~l' i.l'

Lord J. Rust I.L sa,(l, he should not trotthlc the
:on; on the present occasion. He proceed-
ed Inietly to set forth the expediency of vreventing
the issuing of >ivy Wtirs for the Borooglis
Granyound, riot Yn, Cdtneitord," 611,1 liarnstaplc.
lie spoke in 1W t that his argnihents
were in:Audible in the exptessrd a
eontictinn that the ion 5e decided respect-
ing these Boroughs woula Le (001'e satistactorfly
discussed in a new Parlieloient than in one about
to expire ; and accordingly moved, that no new
writs should be issued.

Lord CAsTLEREAGn said, his view of the sub-
ject did not differ very materially from that of the
Noble Lord. Itie wished to keep the question as
neatly as possible as it now stood, till a new l'arlia-
rnent should be assembled. fie merely suggeste►l
that some (K:i-hltieS would be found to atise from
the measure •tn question to which he wished the
Noble Li,rd and the House to turn their attention,
. h tt at the same time he did not oppose the bring-
ing in of the proposed Bill.

Mr. IVYNN approved of the Bill. Nobody could
doubt the power of a new Parliament to deal
with those Boioug,lis as it should think fl' ; but
lie coioeuded; that many difficulties would be
thrown in the way of disposing of the question in
a satisfactory matthei , ilafter the present dissolw ion
-Members should be returned for those Boroughs,
against whom Ito corrupt plactices could be prov-
ed. lie saw Ito objectiou to bring in the Bill.
Could that House sAy, that it %rook legislate On
the principle that Boroughs were so coitupt, that
they were no longer fit to return Members, aid at
the same rime allow M.onbeis from those Boroughs
to take their seats iri th.t House, upon the occur'.
retire of a new Eleciion I. If corruption were
proved to have existed to that extent, that
th.!re were groom! s for the introduction of
these Bills, the House was bOlintl to take care
that the furtlit‘r_inquity in•o the question went
without pr,j,dice to Che ensuing Pailiament.
boiler these circumstances he most' heartily
concurted in the'Bili' of the N'oble Lord. He
had only one thing to hope with respect to it,
which was; that it nhould go Co suspend lie Bo-
rough of Barnstaple front the exercise of its elec..
time franchise iu company with•the other three
Boroughs which were the object of the Noble
Lord's Bill.. He thought sufficient satisfactory
evidence .1),:d been adduced, of the corruption of
that Borough to wartant such a step. He thought
the, plesent a ttrtking oc4asiou for showing that
- the House possessed ih4t important means of de-
against Ole inroads of corruption, and he
hoped they Would not send the Bill away without
taking measures that the question should be ;runs-
ferret! Ou the same state to the ensuing
Pariia-
went.

Lord JOHN 'RUSSELL in explanation observed,
that he should have no objection to concur in the
suggestion ot the Hon. !Member with respect to
the Borciugh of Barnstaple, which he should
ask permission to include in his Bill. With re-
spect to the objection urged to the Bill by
the Noble Lord (Castlereagh), on .account of
the demurrage likely to he made in the House
of Lords, he c.•t•tainly could not anticipate
such a course. it did not appear to him
.very
probable that the House ot Loids would ask f•-!r
all the evidence that had been brought lomat d
on the subject of Grampound, Pent and Ca-
rnellord, merely because the House bad alre.►dy
gone through that evidence, or solely for the pt►r-
pose of seeing if it were justified thereupon, its
passing a Bill like the present. He certainly
thought the Bill of that importance, that he
should move that it be read a first time this'even-
ing, and that the Borough ot Barnstaple be in-
cluded in its operation.
CASTLIMEAOI4 observed, that Iris Aserva-

tions bud tutiely been intended to point out the
difficulties likely to be opposed to the course the
Noble Lord Was about to pursue.—(lirar !)
The Bill was then read a first time, and or-
dered Co be read a second time on Monday next,
and to be-printed.

ANSWER FROM THE ADDRESS TO THE THRONE.
Lord JocELVN brought down Answers to the
two Addresses voted on the night preceding. The
first stated, that his Majesty felt the truest satisfac-
tion in reeeivinz the afectionate, loyal, and duti-
ful Address of Condiletice and Congratulation
from the House of Commons, and that his Ma-
jesty assured the House that he should ever feel
anxious • to- preserve and promote their liberties.
The second 'was as tollows
" GEORGE It.

" 1 have received' with. satisfaction the loyal and dutiful
Address of CotidolenCi;::which the liotrse of ~Connuons has'
presented to me, on the 14O.Melancholy death of my beloved
Brother, the Duke of Kent, ma gratifying proof of their con-
stant attachment to my person, family, and Government.

~ G. It."

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Ex-