The Sun.
London, England, 1829-04-04 00:00:00

observe that one of the points in opposition to this
measure would have been that of a temporary
remedy, but I believe, that if such had been
tried, it would have been a useless attempt; and if we
• had made up our minds to emancipate Ireland, it never
could have been done at a better period than the present;
fur if the Catholics can command the Government, the
Minister, and the landlord, I must think it better to
have a certain number of avowed Roman Catholics in
Parliament than to have a great number of secret sup-
--porters of Catholicism, whom you would not knew how
to appreciate, as they were acting under Catholic in-
Aluence.--tHear, hear.)—Another part of the objection is
that by this measure we destroy the English Church.
Now, I think it is the only way to protect it. lam
satisfied that when this measure has passed, those
Noble Lords who have uniformly supported it
will stand up to protect the Protestant interest,
and the Church Establishment. I must now offer a few
observations on the coronation oath, and I think the ques-
tion alone stands in this way, whether the words
of the coronation oath are technical or constructional,
In the first plate, what are we to do supposing them to be
technical. The oath is a great law necessary for the ad-
mission into office; and from the time of Elizabeth I
and that oaths for public offices have at all times been
subject to continual alteration. Such was the case in the
reigns of Charles the Second, of King William, and
of Queen Anne ; and with regard to those oaths, it is
very curious that in both the Unions with this
country, it is specifically stated that they shall continue
as they are ; how long ? Why till they are altered.—
e Hear, hear.)—We will now come to the construction of
them. A person may act as he pleases on the construction
'of them. His 3lsjesty if be thought it right to rob the
Church of any one gain, or any established property,
in this country, might do so. I contend, however, by
this measure yon weaken Catholic power, fur, instead of
having 100 '.Members in the Bnitish House of Commons,
or, as lately preyed, above 200, the Catholics would not
have 20. On this construction of the present measure no
Protestant could complain that it affected his rights in
this country, and I believe that going apart in such case
would he nothing like a breach of the oath, if it would, there
is unfoltunattly many honourable men would be guilty of
these offenc. Ehere are two classes to which these oaths are
applicable, the civil and the military, and I should like to
know which of the oaths of these two offices it is allowable
to alter. In 1793 the Attorney-General anthorised me
to admit officers into the army with an alteration of the
path, and within these two years the others have been
altered. We are told that this measure is hostile to the
opinions of the people of England, and I am certain that if
such be the case that it will not have the beneficial
effect anticipated. That question, however, can only be
decided by a reference to the petitions presented, and we are
told that there are 2,000 on the one side and 500 on the
other. That, at all events, only shows that there is a great
variety of opinion, and, I think, if they were fairly looked into
it would be found that one-half at least would be in sup-
port of this measure. lam certaen that we lessen the
power of the Catholics by this Bill, and also that we give
additional power to the people of England, and secu-
rity to their church. (The Noble Lord then continued)
The way in which these differences had been accounted for
was of the most extraordinary nature. It was said, when
Pitt and Fox differed, that one of them was right and
that the other was wrong—that whenever they happened
to agree why both of them were wrong.—( Loud laughter.)
Jest so with the Government to that time, and eo
it is with the present Gevernment. My Lords, when
it shall be known that this measure has been
brought forward and sanctioned by his Majesty, and with
the consent of his Majesty's Council, 1 think, I may
venture to anticipate a concurrent opinion in the
public mind, and that when this Bill shall have
passed into a law, the country will reap from it those ime
portant benefits which in my judgment it is calculated to
confer upon us.
Lord SIDAIOUTH,—My Lords, after the very extra-
ordinary speech of the Noble Lord who has just sat down,
I must clai n your Lordships' particular attention to some
parts of that speech, which I am bound to notice.
My Loids, it
.has sometimes happened that when a per-
son has changed his own opinions, he has found
it necessary to resort to the expedient of incul-
pating others, for the express purpose of keeping up a
show of consistency. Whether or not this applies to the
Noble si-eed it is not fur me to say, but I confess that I
was never more surprised than at bearing the speech of
the Noble Lord—nor am I less surprised at the charges
which he has made. My Lords, it is jest eight years since
a respectable gentleman (Mr. Grant) was appointed to
the office of Chief Secretary of Ireland, which at that
time was in a very diffracted state. I have already said
that Mr. Grant was a must respectable gentleman,
and with the utmost admiration for hie talents, I
am free to admit that the appointment had not my concur-
rence; but I yielded to it from the distressing exigency of
the oceamien. It i: well known to the Noble Lord that the
appointment bad not my approbation. lam compelled to
say thus much in reply to the charge of the Noble Lord,
and I feel that I am justified in breaking punctilio`, in
alms adverting to this circumstance. The auirnaiiversions
in whirl the Noble Lord has indulged on my conduct,
were, I think, peefectly uncalled for. I will now, my
Lords, call your attention to another charge upon which
the Noble Lord laid the greatest stress. I mean
the reception which was given by hie Majesty to
the Boman Cetholic Bishops on: presenting their addeeee
after his 3,ls.jeaty'e return to this country ; a question had
been put by a bleVe Friend of mine whether there was
any objection to his Majesey receiving, Catholic Bishops in
the character of Bishops. As it vas a point worthy of
consideration, I thought it my duty to consult my revered
feiersd‘ , Lord Liverpool, upon it, and that lamented
Noblemaer was of opinion that it was impossible to refuse
receiving any earfuls of the Catholic Bishops in that
character. That, my Lord:a was my own opinion.
Every one knows, that they nee 48 mach Bishops,
as those of the Protestant Church. Every one kno7s
that ardimaion has the same effect in both cases. How
then was it possible to advise his Majesty not to receive
them in the chereceee in which they presented
themselves ? They did not come as a titular Bishop
of Limerick, or any other place, but simply as, Bieheps.
The Noble Lord has said that they came in their
full pa.rapterealia and were received with all the re,
pect and deference ,ins to Protestant Bishops.—(Hear,
hear.)--I am not very ceetaln as to that fact, but
I think it would be rather an awkward ,thima if, when
they cleimz an audience of the King in the closet, a se-
cretary of State, ep any person in attendance on his Majesty
wer:. to say, you cannot appear thus, you must go back and
pot off your dress. Allow me here, my r,o.arle, to say that the
had presented addreesee not
members of the Con/wet:Le/Le
only to the King in the cisseeS, but on the Throne. '
The next charge of the Noble Lcrei alluded to
a. cane in the system of his Majesty's Government,
as intimated ria a letter to my Noble Friend opposite. But
I do not find one woe!: Fly that letter to justify such a
charge. It has been said that gae Government would
be acting unfairly, if, after the !suppression 4 the Ca-
tholic Aeedeietion, this measure of relief was net pas.trci.
It should be reeol.!ected, however, that in the King's
speech the recommendation Ac parliament was to take into
consideration the whole condition ef Ireland. How,
I will ask, bas an opportunity been afforded in; such
consideration? Whet assurance have your Lordships had that
this measure will pacify that ecaantry,. I confess, my
Lords, that I, for one, would be spay to decide per a eines-
.t.ion of such vital importance, without Niles and beaear
informteriya ;Ilan that contained in the speech of thg
Noble Duke. ItLy ords, what enquiry has takes
'lase;.? What do we know abont the condition of
Irelendit et least, what do we know of is feceaa that au-
thentic source to wiiicte we are bound to look for infoe-
rnazion? I should have thought before the introduction of
any measure of relief, the recommendation of his Majesty
in his speech to Parliament ellettld have been complied