The Sun.
London, England, 1829-04-03 00:00:00

en t.

ardenP mrpanere of this measure were now its most
etincere supptiaine He hoped he might he permitted
to express the concern whit.% he felt that his 3lajesty's
Ministers should *ant committed themselves to this DM
without haring imparted their determination until it Wee
,00 late .ee recede. In the first place he nnould ask,
would t4e present measure tranquillize trelend ?e—(Hear,
yea hear.).. The greet agitator of Ireland tad told
them explicitly that it would not. In the very peeMr
which annoutteed the recommendetion of hie Mr...jinny in
his speech from the Throne, was contained a *et of the
grievances hereafter to be used for the premise of creating
disturbances in Irelando—(oeiee ter " Hear, he tr.")---
The great mover of agitation had said he was w'iling to
Accept 7s. rid. in the pound this Session, nmenving to him-
self the right And the determination tee demand tie remain-
ing 12e. nef. at the next Session.—(Hear, heir, hear.)—
He had said that the regeneration of Ireland would
not be complete until the repeal of the Union had
-restored Ireland from the character of a province
to that of a nation. Another object was that tithes
should he einelished, and that the Clergy should he left to
rely upon the contributions of those who should choose
to remit:stain them. Those were the objects of the
great agitator, and they would be so far facilitated
by this Bill that all the bulwarks of the Protestant Church
'would he removed, without conciliating- those who were
opposed to it—their power was in fact increased, without
lessening their inclination to do it snischief. Would
any Noble Lord think that the Roman Catholic Church
troald consent to be held as an inferior Church, or that
they would !care a church which they believed to be
heretical in possession of privileges to which they thought
they were entitled. He did not wish to apecei to
the passions or the prejudices of the pimple, but he fnti
that this Bill would not he the means if giving t:eoptillity
to Ireland. It was because he believed this measure
wan not desired from its own value, 13,;:t to
objects, that he gave it his dec'eLeil oppoeitinn. It was
because he believed that inlet Dili would increase the
power of the Cathokea, and at the same time exaeperate
them to attain 'Loose ulterior objects, that he opposed it.—
Hear, hen:. )—lt was from these convictions, :tithe
ant sees engird to the obloquy that might Ito theeienn
open him, that he should take him stand open that
ground which alone appeared to ageret a good secu-
elty2t firm footing for deence.---<Hear, hear, hear.)—
He treestri Protestants would be united in fair resistance
to *tie present measure, It had been said the et:lilt:nee
oildeced in both Timms of Parliament showed sacs a state
of things that no administration could ineist the present
measure. This he mutt deny, and if the Catholics succeeded
they would raise themeelves to such eheight of power,
that he trembled for the consequat tees. He woetel
ea!? upon Ministers to redeem their pledgee nf !se-
curities. They hail promised them, and the pro-
mise Rounded well, hut where was the fulfilment of the
prnmise. There was no security at all proposed. If there
erns a difference of opinion on the subject now, would
there not he after this Bill was carried. Would tent
ether divisions he again brought forward, and other sand-
fteee detnandrel. The advocates of the measure denied that
they wished to exercise their political power. Upon this
point tie would rest.—(Hear.)—Coted, he would ask,
Catholics be admitted into power with eafety to the Irish
Protestant Church He thought not. The present
state r,f the laws was its great buln-aeke--(flear. )
end it ought to he considered how great Mas the influence of
she Catholic Priests over the nnblic mind : they would
ohtain the return of rtelnue Catholics into the Legis-
nnare, men who they know would join any patty
:in the destruction of the Protestant Church.—
Such Members would enter the House zee!ous for their
religion, backed with all the power of superstition ; with
minds eo incited, with minds so acted on, would it not
subject the Protestant Church to denser, and accomplieh
its dcrantfall ? Noble Lords ought to be careful how they
sanctioned a measure which would raise such a force
against the Church. It must, at all events, alarm its
friemde, and therefore was bail policy. The Catholics deny
that they are more at variance with the Protestant Church
than other Dissenters. This he must deny, fur from their
unconstitutional connection with a foreign state, their oppo-
tsition must be greater. Other sects only differed on subjects
of minor importance. The promotion of their Church was
their first object. It wait nearer to them than kin-
dred or Mende, and their general hostility to Pro-
testants was much to be dreaded. He did not mean
to say, after the passing of this Bill, that the subver-
!don of the Protestant Church would immediately
follow, bat he was not prepared to support any measure
that suet altienat,ny cause its downfall. He would
ask Nettle Lords whether they were prepared to support
the Protestant religion. One of the two religions must
have the ascendancy, which should it be ? And there
wos plenty of proof that the Catholic religion was not
meet favourable to the interests of society. He here
could enter into a long explanation, but he would
not trouble the House with a theological diseuesion.
The Catholic religion admitted of no change. It was said
it was different to what it was in the time of their fore-
fathers. Het thought not. It certainly had none of the
charity of the Protestant faith. It was asked what
was to be done ? He would say, enforce obedience to the
lawn, but let the Constitution he Protestant. Let the
Ministers of the Crown he Protestant, and he hoped
and earnestly prayed that the Establishments of the
eonntry would continue Protestant. His Grace's concluding
teentetome were spoke in so low a tone that we could not
catch their import.
The Bishop of OXFORD anti another Noble Lord rose
-at the same time, but the latter gave way. The Bishop then
proceeded. My Lorde, ever since I had a seat in this House,
my opinion has been in favour of concession, and my ex
perience since has confirmed my opinion. In giving
my support to this Bill, I feel I should not he justified
in giving a silent vote ; for afterwards motives
which I never entertained might be assigned as the reasons.
Attached as I am to the Protestant Constitution I never
emild support any measure that I thought would tend to
injure that Constitution, but I certainly think that the
present measure will strengthen it. It will be said, that
it is incumbent upon me to prove the necessity
ef this measure. I feel fully convinced of its ne-
neseity from the present state of Ireland,' by the
!liege milittry force that is necessary to keep that country
in tranquillity, and I think I am fully justified in this opi-
nion by the divisions in both Houses of Parliament. I will
appeal to the state of this House and ask a Noble Duke
on the cross-benches, who certainly has displayed a
generous opposition to the measure, whether he did
not perceive that every illy the public mind was
more and more in favour of concessions. Look to the
younger Members of this House, and to those lately
called to the councils of his Majesty. Every one of
them was in favour of the measure.—(Hear, hear.)—
Does not this, my Lords, show that permanent exclusion
Is impossible.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—All the talent
arid the education of the country is in favour of conces-
sion. I do not deny that there is a strong opposition
to the Bill, but I feel convinced that it cannot be suc-
cessfully opposed by any human power, and if sonic Noble
Londe think it en evil, let us put our trust in a Being who can
bring good out of evil.—(Load cheering.)—These are not
the only grounds that have actuated me in supporting
this measure. First, it comes recommended by his Ma-
jesty's speech from the throne; secondly, by the strong
and decided e-ieelaration of the heir presumptive; thirdly,
by the immense. majority, supported by which it come:, up
to us from the other House of Parliament ; fourthly, by
the support of every branch of the Royal Family whh the
exception of the Noble Duke on the cross bench—(Loud
cheers)___fiftbly, by policy and expediency ; sixthly, by
the opinions of the Noble Chancellor of the University of
Oxford ; seventhly, by those Noble Lords who fought under
the banners of that illustrious Statesman now removed by
Providence from the head of the councils of this country ; and
lamely, this measure comes recommended by the support of
Ministers, hitherto considered—and justly, I think—the
champions of the Protestant church and of her interest. These
are eh- curnetaneee:which have very much influencedmy mind,
and f would ask what effect woult.l be produced if the measure
mere successfully resisted. The interests of the Church or
State certainly eauld not he benefitted. I can contem-
plate, my Lords, nothing less then anarchy and blood-
shed—and after a number of years spent in such a war-
fare, things then certainly would remain in the s tme
unsettled state, for the Catholic claims never could be
permanently resisted, and therefore it would be impolitic
zny longer to delay it. I will ask, suppose if all those
friendly to concession were excluded from the Ministry,
who would there be capable of conducting our public
Affairs ? To whose hands should we intrust the great
concerns of the Protestant interest on which this whole
question turns ? I have a great respect for the Noble
Duke who, by an establishment he has founded in the
school to which he owes his education, proves his wish
for theadvancement of God's glory and for the growth of
tree learning, as also for the Noble Earl who has distin-
gniehed himself for his zeal in the Protestant cause; hut
still, with all my respect for them, I cannot, in the present
circumstances of the country, venture to do that which
may commit the care of the Church to their hands.
cannot furget that the Church of England was once, and
nnce c,nly, laid prostrate in the dust, and that that was
not by the iatriguinz of Papists but by the violence of

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