The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

ROUSE OF Gu,d,PluNS, July 23.
COUNTY RATES BILL.—PRIVILEGE.
Upon the motion that the House go into Committee no the
Conrey Rates Bill,
Mr. F. FRENCH rose and said, I see, Sir, in the public
papers a report that a breach of the privileges of this
Howe has been committed, in reg.rd to a speech being
published in the Times newspaper of testerdey morn-
ing, which is attributed to me, and declared to he in-
correctly attributed—in fact, that I never made such a
speech. Now I dare say that there are many Ho-
nourable Members in the House at the present moment
who can bear me out in stating that every single word
reported in that speech was spoken by me in this House. I
sat by the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London,
and on the Ministerial Benches sat the Prime Minister, the Right
Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Depart-
ment, and many other persons, and every one of them will vouch
that the report in the Times is literally and wholly
correct.—(Hear, hear.) I came into the House without any
idea of speaking on the subject, but an opportunity appeared
to rise to offer itself, and I made some notes while
in the House. I happen to have those notes still
in my possession, and I have compared them
with the speech, as reported, and they bear out literally the
accuracy of everything in the speech. Now a reply to that
speech has come from another quarter—a very powerful quar-
ter. It is perfectly true that from long practice the individual
may wield his weapons with greater dexterity than 1 can, but
I have yet to learn that, when occasion may require it, I can-
not :strike as hard a blow as he can. I neither court nor fear
him, but it is not my intention to carry on a war of abuse,
which would neither accord with my own feelings, or be con-
sistent with my position as a Member of this House. I think
I may trespass on the House for a few minutes, while I state
my position with respect to this matter. The House is aware
that for many years I have taken a good deal of interest in the
subject of railways for Ireland. Some years ago, when a pro-
position was made for constructing railways in the south of
Ireland out of the public fund, I opposed it, believing that
a line to the west would be more conducive to the interests of
the United Kingdom, and tend more to develop the resources
of Ireland. In the year IE4I, shortly after the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman at the head et the Government came into power, I brought
the subject at considerable length under the notice of the House.
The railway—the Irish Great Western—which gave rise to
the present question, was not got up by solicitors or engineers,
as these things usually are—it was a Noble Friend of mine
and myself who were the promoters of the line. We expe-
rienced the greatest hostility as well from a rival company as
from all the stock-jobbers in the kingdom. Every possible ex-
pedient was resorted to, to throw obstacles in the way, Not-
withstanding all this, shares to the amount of from two to three
millions of money were applied for. I will now state shortly the
circumstances connected with the allotment of these shares.
All applications were placed in a committee of directors. It
had been stated, however, that considerable negligence had
been shown with regard to these applications. I can say, how-
ever, in reference to this point, that a respectable company in
Edinburgh, Messrs. Miller and Hope, stockbrokers, had the
selection of the applicants in that part of the country, and lam
quite sure that they would allow no individuals on the subscrip-
tion list unless such as were respectable. In London the lists
were deposited with Mr. Hazeltine, and several persons, including
the solicitor for the Bill; and Mr. Harris, another solicitor,
went round and inquired into the respectability of the parties.
A provisional Committee was also appointed to inquire into the
application, and to make the allotments. Shares to the amount
of two millions were thus allotted. Notice was subsequently
given, that unless the subscribers paid up the calls, the deposit
on the shares would be forfeited. In consequence of the deci-
sion respecting the standing orders, the money was not to be
had. General Caulfield and others then came forward and
said that they would pay up the money and take those shares.
It was a mis-statement, however, to say that the direc-
tors had held any shares in the company for the pur-
pose of trading in them with a view to profit.
I never in my life held above forty shares in this or any other
railway. 1 hold these at this moment. I have never parted
with one of them ; and, under these circumstances, I think it
very hard that it should be imputed to me that my exertions in
behalf of this line had been influenced by
any o
sordid motive. I assure the House that to
_theeuxns couldtienatyh ore
not, ofr
fortyot, i
n any as
shares
claem,
exceedinterested,
w There
and of uhraitcrhhee ra; adnod nomyt think it
fi other
number loss
things connected with this matter,
~ore th
w
House. I admit
they necessary
occur in
I meade ; but I must
advert to one
statement which represents me as
canvassing for the support of a powerful individual in
another place.
to
That is perfectly true.—( Hear.) I did see
introduceth: speechbf
that gentleman for about two minutes, and that was all ; and I
asked him to withhold his opposition until my Noble Friend
should be in his place to answer the allegations. I was not be-
fore aware, that my powers of reasoning were so great, that in
an interview of two minutes I could convince this gentleman.
It has been asserted, also, that the statement I made with
respect to the agents were untrue. The statement which I
did make before was, that there were interviews with the
agent, and that five letters were written—anti that, I repeat, is
true. So far, I was correct. It was said that the
agent wag not permitted to open the subject.
As to browbeating the witnesses, I had not done so. I received
the evidence from themselves; and with reference to Mr.
Parkes, whose name was mentioned, he merely proved that in
forty railway schemes the system was thevery same as in this one.
There is another circumstance to which I wish particularly to
refer ; I allude to some words which I speke under great ex-
citement. lam anxious that that imputation should not re-
main, and I am prepared to state that the strong personal ex-
pressions which I made use of towards that individual was
under a mistaken feeling, as I have since found that he did
.not
make use of the expressions which I did; but although he made
use of words to the same effect, I have no hesitation in with-
drawing all the personal expressions which I made use of to-
wards that individual : and further I will state, as every man
should do, who has made a mistake as I did, my regret that I
used any expressions, offensive either to that individual or to
any other person.
Mr. CLIVE said, as Chairman of the Comittittei
to which the House had referred the Bill, he might •
be permitted to say a few words with respect to the

share hot The Committee did not permit In examination of
the share lit, booms. the parties did not call upon them to do
so. Hs fh it right to slats this, as it might be inferred,
from wtsat 1111111tneattly *hest place, that the Committee

-.11 place, tug. - _
bed *o4lid that a\ ttiest to their duties which they ought to
Invasions.
The cmorciaLoft of the EXCHEQUER said that
what lid feells the Hoe. Gentleman opposite will, I
tart
trust, his. 11110, of alleging that feeling of irritation which
the expressions emade nee of on a former evening appears
to have eseasioned. lam sure lam the last person in the
world who would wish to pursue this subject, as such a eourse
cannot fail to be painful to all parties. Perhaps the
Honourable Gentleman will allow me to avail my-
self of the opportunity now afforded of suggesting
to Hon. Members who sometimes violate what are the fixed
rules of this House, which we are bound to obey, not to call
into question the acts and conduct of Members of the other
House of Parliament, who may have acted in their legislative
capacity. lam sure the only mode of securing a proper feel-
ing of respect, and a proper observance of our own feelings, is
to show that we are not desirous of violating them. I think
we may do this, by abstaining from alluding to statements
which have been uttered in another place. I have thought it
my duty to avail myself
_ of this opportunity of making these
observations to the House.
Mr. ESCOTT said he had been in the House the whole of
the time the Hen. Member (Mr. F. French) was speaking,
and never beard one single sentence of the speech.—( A laugh,
and cries of " Hear, hear.")
Mr. DARBY said a few words, but not with reference to
the speech referred to.
Sir J. Y. BULLER said that he objected to the expenses
of this Bill being pat on the County Rates Bill.
Mr. M. GIBSON also objected that the clause was unne-
cessary to carry out the provisions of the Bill.
After a few worde from Mr. DARBY and Sir J. Y. BuLLER,
The Rouse divided, when there appeared, on the division
for the 11th clause, that for the addition of the terms instead
of the full and fair value of the property, the words " at the
sate at which the property was valued to the poor,"
Fer the addition ... 43

_
Against itll
Majority for the addition —32
The ether clauses, up to clause 31, were then agreed to.
Mr. M. GIBSON thought this was the proper time for
moving the amendment of which he had given notice, and he
should therefore move the following clause :—And whereas by
an Act passed in the session of Parliament holden in the fifth
and' sixth years of the reign of his late Majesty, intituled, " An
Act to provide for the regulation of Municipal Corporations in
England and Wales," it is enacted, that after the grant of a
separate Court of Quarter Sessions of the Peace to any borough,
it shall net be lawful to assess any messnages, lands, tene-
ments, or hereclitaments, within such borough, to any county
rate thereafter to be made, but every part of such borough
sihall thenceforward be wholly free and discharged from con-
tributing otherwise than as thereinafter provided, to any rate
or assessment of any kind, of and for the county in which any
part of such borough is situated • be it therefore enacted,
that nothing in this Act contained ;hall extend to render any
such borough, or any property situated therein, liable to be
assessed, or to contribute to county rate, save as in the said
recited Act is mentioned and contained.
The amendment was agreed to.
The other clauses were then gone through, and en the
}wearable being submitted,
Mr. HAWKS wished to know if the evidence had justified
the concinslen at which they had arrived.
Mr. E. DENISON said that it was certainly very desirable
to know whether the lands appropriated to publio bodies was
to be considered as amenable to this Bill.
Lord G. SOMERSET said that he could not be answer.
able for the Government, but so far as his conceptions went,
those lands which were not subject to the property-tax would
not be subject to the provisions of this Bill.
Mr. DARBY said, that the investigation ought to be made
by those who bad to ascertain the rack-rent, and not according
to their figures, but according to the real value of the land.
Mr. G. PALMER thought that the country ought to be
altogether re-valued. The difference of value had led to
Bach serious differences in the country that he thought for the
sake of justice the country ought to be re-valued.
Sir J. Y. BULLER said that the machinery of the Bill
Was perfectly easy.
The Bill then passed through Committee, and the report was
ordered to be received to-morrow.

The House having resumed. went into Committee on the
Death by Aecident Compensation Bill.
After a few verbal amendments, _ _

Gaulle 1 was agreed to, as were also clauses 2,3, 4, and 5.
Some amendments to some of the clauses being withdrawn,
the Bill passed thMugh Committee, and the report was ordered
to be received on Friday.
The Deodends Abolition Bill then passed through Com-
mittee, and the report was ordered to be received on Friday.