The Sun.
London, England, 1829-05-20 00:00:00

kets and exchanges, to carry on as much trade as
poeale. With respect to the position of the Lion.
Alderman near the table, he denied that there could
be such a thing as unproduction in this country ge-
nerally. He admitted there might be such a thing ,
in one single article, but it could riot exist in all. In
his view of the case, what was called overproduc-
tion arose from inequality of production ; there was
too much of one article made, that was all. For his
parte he wished for a steam-engine of 100-power in
every village to
,manufacture bread and meat.—(A
laugh.)—The object should bij to produce articles
exchangeable for food in as great qeaetities as pos-
sible ; but we were not allowed a free market for
food. It was the present state of the corn laws
which occasioned what was known by the title of
over-production. The producer is ready to exchange
his goods for food; you will not let him have it ; if he
cannot get it, he will have a superfluity of commodi-
ties ; so that it is Government that is to be blamed.
'We were all interested in this. If Government
altered the corn laws, they would have the popula•
Lion in a state of prosperity ; they would have every
man employed; they would have the consumption
of commodities greatly increased, and along with that
an augmented revenue from taxation ; and thew
would have the means of power and wealth to an al-
most unlimited extent placed in their haeds. it was
the country gentlemen who ruled the House and
the country—they made the laws ; they said, " Let
us have a monopoly of the supply of corn to the
manufacturers, &c. ;" they were the Lords in the
House of Commons and in the other House of Par-
liament, and they had done this. Let us suppose
the manufacturers of Sheffield, Manchester, &c.
were masters here, and adopted the converse of this
principle, how would the landowners like it ? But
let no Government exclusively adopt or carry either
principle too far. Let them not cramp us with this
restrictive law or that, but place the whole commu-
nity in a situation, and confer on them a power, to
do their best. The greatest state of freedom in-
volved the greatest state of prosperity. He was
not one who thought that the public debt, heavy as
it was, was of much consequence, so long as we
could have such an extension of commerce as would
render the whole world tributary to us, and assist in
its payment. The Hon. Member concluded by
moving, " That the House do resolve itself into a
Committee of the whole House to consider the corn
laws [Act 9 George IV., c. 60,] with a view of sub-
stituting a fixed duty on the importation of foreign
cern into the United Kingdom, and appointing a
bounty on the export of British corn, instead of the
present graduated scale of prices and duties."
Mr. MARSHALL, jun. seconded the motion.
Mr. V. FITZGERALD called the attention of
the House to the fact of the Hon. Gent. at this
period of the Session, and in the present state of
the country, having felt himself justified—and no
doubt his motives were of the purest kind—in
calling upon the Legislature to adopt the inconveni-
ent course of retracing the steps it had taken last
session, after the most deliberate and anxious con-
sideration, and to rescind a law before it had come
into full operation, or received R fair trial, owing to
circumstances which he should not advert to. From
the Hon. Member's own statement, it would seem
that the subject of the corn laws was so bound up
with other questions that required more time for
their consideration than Parliament could now be-
stow, as rendered it impossible to come to an im-
mediate decision upon it. The Hon. Member had
most disengenuously treated the subject, and de-
scribed it and argued upon it as a question at issue
between the country gentlemen and the manufac-
turers. No liberal-minded man could possibly have
condescended to describe in terms so irritating u
question of such grave importance. In fact lie had
described the corn laws, modified even as they now
were by a lute act of Parliament, as nothing
less than a tax imposed for the sake of the
agricultural interest upon the industry of the
country. Such a description of our internal policy
was invidious, if true ; but it was worse than invidi-
ous, because it was totally destitute of foundation.—
An lion. Member behind him had just then 11461%
and well ►aid, that to talk of the corn grown in th'e
state of Venice would be no less absurd than to
boast of the mignionette grown in London. In re-
ply to the Hon. Member's statement, he would oppose
a statement in figures, which he would challenge
him to disprove, which fully bore him out in main•
taining, that so far from the system being ineffica-
cious, and the predictions of last year being disap-
pointed, every promise that could be expected to be
verified, by experience in the present state of trade
and the manufacturing population, had been ahun-
dandy fulfilled by the equability of price which
wheat had maintained ever since the passing of the
present law. A comparison with the fluctuations of
other years, when there had been short crops as
there was last year, would fully satisfy the House as
to the preference which was due to the system now
in operation over its predecessors in similar circum-
stances. From the September of 1799, which was
a year of deficiency in the wheat crop, to the next
May, the price fluctuated from 745. to 115 s. a quar-
ter. In 1800, which also was a short crop, from
955. to 1545. In a year of similar deficiency of pro-
duce, 1810, from 85s. to 113 s. In 1828 and 1829,
during the same period, and under the present sys-
tem, the fluctuation had been confined, despite of all
the Hon. Member for Montrose bad said this even-
ing in disparagement of the system, to the
scarcely perceivable difference between 58s. Bd. and
575. 7cl. The several fluctuations, therefore, ac-
cording to this statement, which he would vouch
for was correct, were, in each preceding year of
short crops, decidedly in some instances enormously
greater than had been experienced since the present
system had been adopted.—(Hear.)—The Hon.
Member's plan for improving our situation consisted
of a fixed price, and holding out an advantage to
our growers to export. He talked of giving a pro-
tecting duty of 20s. a quarter, 15s. he would have
preferred ; but still more gladly would he have em-
braced the project to make it only 103. a quarter.
In fact, he said he would havo preferred, even in the
teeth of the late Mr. Ricardo's constant advice to
the contrary,—preferred giving no protecting duty
at all. The lion. Seconder went still further, and
said he would not propose the adoption of any fixed
rate of duty, but-leave that to be decided by a com-
mittee, which should apportion it according to the
existing burdens of the community. This vague
proposition was little short of having every thing at
sea: nor was it possible to conceive such a proposi-
tion could be combined with the idea of any fixed
duty. To countervail all the disadvantages under
which the agricultural interest would have to labour,
'he Hr Member proposed that a bounty should be

trade, and had bectisse a stanch advocate of a. file4ll,l;
rate of duty on the food of the people.. Se inuh- 6
for consistency !He particularly Gaut. the
House not to disturb the present laws on this 1"/ • .
ject, because it scarcely could be ,said their principa:
had a fair chance of being tried; but as far as it had
been tried, it had prevented that which was the grest
evil of all—a fluctuation to any great extent in tbe
price of this essential of life.—(Hear.)
Mr. HEATHCOTE agreed with the Right,
H se
Hon. Gent. at the head of the Board of Trades, th,:
it would be eminently unwise to disturb the pririPw
of the present corn laws.
Lord MILTON agreed with the Right 144;1
Gent. 0 to the expediency of attempting to " :
as nearly as rseible the price of corn in this country
e
There yet, howeveri remained a question of gre:c
importance to be determirred,—namely, on Irildi
basis was that permanency of price to be founde
..
He entirely agreed with the Hon. Member for Aber; .
deen, that an approximation must be made sooner °
later to a free trade in corn ; otherwise the. ro'ar't;,
teetering pre-eminence of the country could riotl'i,
maintained. The proposition of the Hon. Metti7ie
for Aberdeen, besides being sanctioned by the Pokni'
ciples advocated in that House, and elsewhere '7l
the late Mr. Ricardo, had the peculiar recosamef
dation of not only not taking the sgriculturiets Itr
surprise, but of giving them full time t 0 141 a
their supply ; for though it ultimately propOes.
to fix the duty at 3s. per quarter, it beg,4
at 151., and gradually descended. To a coliet7v
so densri populated as Great Britain, it must be,e
matter of serious consideration to provide ageing i:v
possible evils of a Scarcity of corn, and this 001!,
could be ensured by encouraging the importatiot!°,
the grain of less populous and more fertile countrre,
He was sure the more the subject was considere.%
the more it would gain on public attention, and ta .
more justifiable and rational would appear the Prce
tioniA
position of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen.
Mr. V. FITZGERALD explained. -...
Mr. E. WODE HOUSE was opposed to the p. si
position of the lion. Member for Aberdeen, whle"
he considered to be founded on a gross delusion re'
specting the advantage to the country of what "44
termed free trade. The Hon. Member for Aber"
deen dwelt much on what he called the totem
quences of our free trade in corn from 1791
1815 ; but he seemed to forget that 1796 and 17 (
were years of famine; that 1801 was also a Teer °
famine ; and that in that year the King of Paola
declared, that if our price of corn was high, em
would his export duty be high ; and if the P,Drife.lite:
were low, so would his duty be low.
the
Honourable Member also wished to impress
minds of the House and the public with hie
e °la
most erroneous views of the origin of the pre6;i,
distresses in the manufacturing districts. Ace°. 5
ing to the Honourable Member, this distress111
wholly owitsg to our vie:ous system of 'order.;
by which foreign markets were closed agaie:st .
manufactures, and the wages of labour thence se':
sened. " Now," said Mr. Wodehouse, "in aneifeb
to this delusion of the Hon. Member for Aberdeer4
all I will say is this—let the Hon. Member leave thee
,
decision on the question to the distressed artisse-
themselves—to the weavers of Manchester, for er'
ample, or to those of Norwich, if he preferred the
latter, from holding property near them. I will Itiv°
him his own time and place, and his own chairtoa°;
I will tell the weavers of Norwich that Mr. Illethis
coming down to explain to them his views 01 },-
causes of their distressed condition. Let. :,
Honourable Member do so, and let me state ro;
u'rllo-
and I will be crucified if I will not upset ~...-
in the midst of those very distressed weavers. /''''
(Hear, and laughter.)—The distress of our tranive
lecturers is not owing to the Corn Laws; the/. 10,
all the consequences of that piece of legislative 1/10‘
Nation Mr. Peel's currency tampering Bill d 18' d
(Hear.)—This has put our feet in the stocks' an,
rendered us unable to do any good, in fact, to o°'
thing at all—but---(Laughter.
Sir G. PHILIPS contend d that if a free tilde
in foreign corn were sanctioned by the Legislat,ufei
the consequent increased demand for our 014311/1".;
tures would so raise the wages of labour while li
lowered the price of bread, that it would put an Vie,
"
to the periodica Idistresses in the manufacturing
tricts.
Mr. W. WHITMORE was convinced that there
could not possibly be a worse system than the Pre'
sent system of corn laws.
Mr. HOULDSWORTH contended against the
proposition of the Hon. Member for Montrose. ,
Lord ALTHORP objected both to the time at
which this proposition was brought forward, and t°
the proposition itself.
Mr. HUSKISSON perfectly concurred with 110
Nolsle Lord in considering this proposition imPrw,r"
ticable and ill-timed. The present system) he con.;
ceived, was the best that could be adopted for tn
circumstances of this country. It afforded protee:
tion to the farmer when the price of corn wall lob;
and it protected the manufacturer by admittingr
0
importation of foreign corn when the price of e°;
at home was high. It was quite impossible, kali/I,i,
out of view the other objections to it, that the Pe-pc
tion of the Hoe. Member for Montrose could
be
be carried into effect. t, he
Mr. HUME replied. lie contended that
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, and the te.dia,
other Hon. Members who had taken part in ti_llel, be
cussion, had not answered any of the facts lei ",7,,i.
had adduced in support of his view of the 1w:to,
He utterly denied the conclusions at which the Tr,
Member for Pontefract (Mr. Houldsworth) ha." l'of
rived with regard to the increase in the pncel,4e
labour compared with that of corn during the P-to
half century. By a table which had been put into
his hands by the Hon. Member for Bedford, erl I
which was very carefully drawn up, it appeared °set
the average wages of the agricultural leb°ll6i,
between the year 1712 and the year 1760 was ,/,
per week, while the price of •corn ranged from bad
to 305.; whereas now the average price of corn i'er
risen so:high as 725., while the wages of the labotlie
amounted on the average from Is. to 9s. weekly'. ~i
had never intended' to establish a permanent f4e.t,
duty, but ho proposed to commence with a eertji r
duty, and to descend gradually to the establisholev
of a free trade in corn. The Hon. Member C_l;
chided by saying, that his only object was to en
op
his Majesty's Government to consider the operati--5
of these laws, but he should press his mo!ion t° 0,
division, in order that he might ascertain hot'!.!
there were of his own epinion.—(A laugh.)
.10
The House then divided—
For the Motion
„Against it 154 '
Majority against the Motion ,14g
'AO

the Hon. _ prop
held out to it on the export.—[Mr. Hume—l did EMPLOYMENT OF CHILDREN IN FACT°I‘ in 0
not call it a bounty, I called it a drawback.]—He Mr. HOBHOUSE moved for leave to bring
would convict the Hon. Member of both. inaccuracy Bill to amend the several Acts relating to e
, the
to
and forgetfulness, by reading the words of his own ployment of children in cotton and other facr°rin
motion, in which the word bounty was actually in Sir G. PHILIPS observed, that the condit'oe
serted in his own hand-writing—(Hear, hear, and the persons in the factories in Lancashire, both w'
eO.
laughter)—and what was more remarkable was, that ing and spinning, was superior to those in other hod
the Hon. Member should have proposed a bounty ployments; and that the combinations which mg'
which was both unpalateable to the public and inju- existed amongst artisans in that county for the rOO
dicious in point of policy, because its possible pose of procuring an increase of wages, were 6ebose
effect might be to reader the supply of the foot, not by those who had low wages, but hi t
people of this country still more precarious than who had the highest. tithe
remind had been of late years. Again he begged to Mr. R. GORDON remarked, that it had the
remind the House from past experience, of the proved before a Committee of the House, thatboir
impossibility of keeping up a fixed duty itt times of children in factories were severely worked; that stirs'
high price of corn. No Minister, however bold in appearance was so squalid that they might be di
other respects he might be, would dare to keep up guiehed from others in Sunday schools. ' ri
ot
or support a high bounty, even on the export of Mr. PEEL admitted that the principal fact°.b
corn during a period of great distress and scarcity. in Lancashire were extremely well managed ihich
The principle, if even a good one, must be sacrificed there were smaller factories in other parts, in the
to expediency. The opinion of a very high autho- it could not be denied that abuses existed• BI of
rity on this subject, who had just published his existing law, magistrates who were proprievlbe
thoughts, and anticipated in his pages the arguments cotton mills were disqualified from acting; yetntie'
of the Hon. Member, was, that neither 20s. nor Os. magistrates were not empowered to visit their to
duty could be maintained; particularly if dearth tories. He thought it might possibly be desirabiect,
should, as was usually the case, visit this country enlarge the jurisdiction of magistrates in this tegPio,
and France at the same time.—(Hear.)—lt re- After some observations from Mr. W. St,ete
prove that this pro- Sir G. Pute's, and Mr. HoettousE, leave was Pitt 0
jqt e
eei itr
would
obutltdt littleb eTmy experience
chimerical,
to Paten's, e
ri c a
were we to be re- Mr. DICKINSON obtained leave to bring to
duced to a state of extreme scarcity, and a famishing Bill to amend the Act of last Session, relatl4-
population. The Hon. Member was, it was now the division of counties.
Clear; a recreant from his favourite principle of free , Tho CHAC,ALLOIi of tho AXCOQ'