The Sun.
London, England, 1811-02-23 00:00:00

ceeding atiord the Catholics or Ireland room to say
Joey were a marked and proscribed people ?---that
..,. ', they were the watch-word of a" No Poperr Ad-,
ministration. This lice of conduct and language
%%orb, respe& to them, was very dirferebt from the
nature and character of ihe proceedings which for.
m i
erly took place, even n the Parliament of Ireland,
iu their favour, when their case was duly noticed in
a Speech from the Throne, and high remedial Sta-
tutes pass&i in their behalf. He deprecated the tine
of policy which his Majesty's Ministers adopted,
with, respect to 00 fewer 'than four millions of the
subjeEts of their common Sovereign, in whose ear,
~, ‘ he was afraid, much misreprettentation, with respet
e
io them had been poured. The Statutes of which
i tiey laboured to procure a repeal, were a disgrace
,
to the Statute Book; and to prevent their tode.a-
-.: %ours to. obtain this-laudable cod the paper in ques-
,' , non was calculated.. It was to prevent his Wes-
`' Iv'. CalliOlit: 603(34S of Ireland from doing that to
which all the King's subjects tu colnroon hid ale- '
. 1:il aod conststutiumil right, viz, to petition for 3
; tedress of their grievettees. But the mmifesto of
• the Irish Secroaty would have a contrary etiett front
that for which it was calculated ; it would eventually
call upon all the Catholks in Ireland nut to du all
4, utda we ful atib, but to vindicate their diameters, and
:.,„. to express their opinions upoe the point 4 in qua-
:',;,, tines. ' With respect to his Noble Friend's (the Earl
r
of Ross) idea, that the proceedings of the Catho-
lics were of a (wool nature, and that the circular
, letter was nut issued for some time after its date,
he observed, that Ministers may thank hint fbr
, his defence, but it was not their defence. He.
e could furnish their Lordships with some evidence on
:,.. that head :It so happened that he himself bad
received a letter from Mr, lity, the Secretary
it of the Committee; dated (we believe) the Mil
of January, which inclused several printed co-
pies of the circular letters, so little secrecy was
. oh:wive(' on.. the °cosi in.— He commuulcated
some of theta to his friends, and one to a Noble
Lord then present. He was nut desirous of keep-
.., ink; his correspondence a secret. lie freely commu-
-1 eicateo his sentiments on the occasion to sonic of his
'il. Catholic friends, He represented to them they had
l, warty enemies, desired them to be cantioos, and
: r
. 't '
nut place themselves in the power of Government;
that they need not be so anxious with respect to the
. signature or modelling of their petition; so as that
. it was regular and respectful it would be received,
11,
I -
~-, and fully as rnecli attended to try all who resettled
~
the principles of justice a :nut sound policy, as it
ii would tie were it backed in the way Illy proposed;.
the trouble therefore they intended to take in that
ilrespect was unnecessary. This was the nature and
i' effect of the advice which the Noble Earl 5314 he
iffered on the oceesluo, and such were his real.sen-
-1;;:, tiMents. Impressed as he was, he most cordially
supported the motion of his Noble Friend.
The question was theu put on the Marquis of
. LANSUOWNIeS merlon, winch Was uegatiyed with-
r out a division,----After %Odell the House immediately
4 adjourned till Muntlay.

110 LISE Of COM4IIO.NS.
Tait:ay, rail. 22.
Sir Mr, PLOMEtt presented a Petition from the
Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons of the City
of Loffdoni in Ct,tttieton Council assembled, against
the Western Junction Canal Bill. The Petition was
ordered to lie on the table until the second reading
or the Bill, when the Petitioners are to be beard
by Counsel.
Mr...G art HA tes the inspector of Convicts, presented
the accounts of sitar department, which were or•
dered to liti,utitire-table.
Mr. piwes and Mr. Bare, from the Bank, pre-
vented
,tise vat ions accounts recently ostlereci by the
`House relative to Bullion and Bank Notes, which
were ordered to be printed.
The Population Bill went through a Committee,
the import 01 which was ordered to be received un
Monday.
Mr. LUSIttINGTOtiI brought up the. Report at the.
Scotch Creditors Bill, which was agrted to, and the
Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Mon-
tlay.
Mr. Rosa brought .in tt Bill to amend. time I3th
and 22d of the king, respecting she wages of per.
soils employed in the ttk Nlanutactory. Read satirst
time, and ordered to be read a second time on
'Monday.

COMMITTEE 01 WAYS AND MEANS.
The: aceoums rein;ive to the War Taxes, and to
the surplus of the Coniolidatvd Fund,, having been
realred to a Committee of Ways and Means, the
House on the motto° at Mr. Wharton, reaulVeti
its& into a Committee, 10 Which the itAlow trig Rei.
KoWiens were agreed :
On the motion of Nir. WHARTON,
Timt the sum (t $0,7601. Wing the surplus of the Con.
solinated Fund, on the tit fanuary, ISt t, be applied towards
rutin% the au pply granted to his Alajesty.
That a sum (the amount of winch, from the rapidity
and ilidibtilittimo with whiLli the RCSuIUtIOII6 was Wild by
th honourable Mover and Chairman, we were unable to
coliett), being part of die prodtme ut thei War Taxes,
he applied towards raising the supply granted to his Ma-

is •
1 hat the sum of (two:oath be Mut! by Exchequer
Mils tot tb scrvice Of GMT
That die bum of 1.1,,00,0n.A. be raised. by Exchequer
111111.1ot. the service of treat istiwin.
That the usual Matt and l'ottaion duties, £c. bc con.
tbettott and applied towards ratbiag the, supply."
On the motion of Mr. FosTrAt,
That the sent of t,eovieciol, be rained by Treasury Dills
in Ireland."
The Mouse hating been resumed, the Report.
was ordered to be reedited to-morrow.
Mr. GoLuounne presented h return of the male
•iind female convicts under sentence of tiansportation.
Ordered to he on the table.
Sir J. Newroar gave notice, that on Tuesday,
he would move for Papers relative to certain
Acts passed in the last Session of Parliament, re-
speeling the Custom.; anti Excise of Ireland.
IRELAND
Mr. Warm, in pursuance of his notice, rose to
rut ve for the production of: certain Papers relative
to the measure lately adopted by his Majesty's Mi-
nisters in Ireland. If the Right Hun. Gentleman
(ipposite had thought tit to giant the,e Papers, it
tvoide have been untecessary for him to say any
th g O ina the sublet-A at present;' bat as that Right
Hon, Gentletnan bad at 1: ngthl convinced him that
Wos his 411001101) 10 Oppose their produCtion, he
tau tt be permitted to trouble the House with a few
vita prefatory to his monori c The louse
,wtire

end irritation ; an a& which nothing but absolute
"necessity could, in his opinion, justify. It was
therefore incumbent on his Majesty's Ministers, if
they wished to preserve the confidence of the coun-
try, to skew the existence. of that necessity. He
certainly was not himself much inclined to repose
confidence in the Administration of the Right_ Hon.
Gentleman 'opposite, and more especially as that
Administration regarded Irelanol; because he con-
ceived that that Wein Hon. Gentleman proceeded
on principles of the most mischievous tendency to
both countries. But when it was found that his
Majesty's servants rummaged the darkest pages of
the Statute. Book, in order to inflict pains and
pe-
ual'ies en persons who, however erroneous they
might be in any particular act, were generally and
substantially as meritorious subjects as any in
the King's dominions, it became necessary for Par-
liament to interfere, and net to allow the security
of a wiwle people to be endangered, without cant-
ing on those to whom the hazard was imputable for
a lull explanation of the motives by which they had
been influenced. It was as true as extraordinary,
that the steps lately taken by the Irish Government
had been 'Acceded by no official statement, either
:on the pelt of that or of the British Government, of
the existing disturbances in Ireland on the contrary,
the last
,notice that was taken of the state of Ire-
land by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, in
that Honor, was a boast of its tranquility., With
respe& to the paper which had been laid before the
house, he meant the circular letter of the Ucretary
of the Catholic Committee, it contained no ju,titi-
cation of the conduct of Government ; it met ely as-
certained the fact of the existence in Ireland for a
considerable time of a Catholic delegation. -Now
he apprehended that the mere tact of the exist-
ence of such a delegation, did riot justify Govern-
ment in the exercise at law ouch as that which had
been enforced. It was to him evident that the legi-

timate übjett which the cathodes sit Ireland had in I
contemplation, could be accomplished with touch
greater safety through the meditun of a delegation
than by a referenee to the whole body of ealhol:cs
in that country. But supposing, a supposition to
the truth of which he could not try any means assent,
that the delegation was of an naiore, and had
improper objects in view,, the House ought to be io•
formed whether his Majesty's Government bad fined
Mild measures before they resorted to those of st.ve-
rity It was necessary that the Howie should know
whether any communication had been made to the
individuals presumed to have offended against the'
law, before the adoption of a step by which, it it,were
followed up, a very large number of persons indeed
would be deprived of toeir personal liberty. On the
face or the paper which had been laid on the table of
the House, there was nothing of an alarming nature;
on, the contrary, it appeared to have been drawn up
with a studious attention
i to mildness of expiessiou, .
and with the greatest anxiety, ndt only not to vio-
late the law, but even not to offend, the Govern-
meet. In support, of this opinion, he read several
passages from the letter in question. It was possi-
ble that Ministess (eight be in possession of infor-
mation Which would shew that all this wassw► pre-
mice, and that the persons by whom the letter was
composed were actually engaged in designs danger-
ous to the State. No wee of this, however, ap-
peared in the document Which had been produced)
and we were at present in profound ignorance of the
grounds on which Ireland had been placed in the
most irritated and perdoos situation. It was evi•
dent, from other considerations,- besides thixten-
deoey of this letter from the Catholic Committee,
that it could not have been the immediate occasion
of thejsieasure adopted by the Irish Government.
That letter was dated so long back as the Ist of Ja-
nuary. The circular letter of the Chief Secretary
was not written until the 12th of Febtuary. Thus,
it appeared that, for six weeks, the Catholic letter
had passed unnoticed by the Irish Government, nay,
Majesty's Ministers had advised his Royal High-
nes, the Regent, in his Speech to Parliament net to
attention Ireland, except with the reference to the
deficietiey in her revenue. No notice
.was taken
its ' that Speech of those political circumstances in
which the real danger of Ireland consisted. He
also contended, that the Government, both here and
to Irolatitt, ought to make out a good case with re-
spect to the particular time in which they had
thought proper to adopt this measure, What was
the precise time which had been chosen 2 It tnight
hove been only an unlucky coincidenee, but the
hitt unqueStionably was, that the manifesto of the
C,hief Secretary was exactly at the moment when
the .account, was received in Leland of the assume.
tioo of the regal authority by his Royal Highness
the Prince of Wales, who was extremely popular
in that country, and who, it was generally under-
stood, was peculiarly alive to the welfare 'of Ire-
land. What he contended for was, that no satis-
factory ground had, hitherto been laid for the pro-
ceeding of the Irish Government. Whether that
proceeding was right or wrong, he should be sorry.
now to say. His objets was not to pass censures on
that which had been dune,, but to give an opportu-
nity of ascertaining kits expediency; not to discuss;
but to afford the means of future thscusaion. If it
should turn out that the proceeding which had been
adop:ed was indispensably necessary, he trusted that.
that. discovery would powerfully rouse the attention
of Government and the country to the situation of
Ireland. During the administration of the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite, owing to measures which,
in his opinion, were of the most erroneous nature,
although he did not attribute them to improper mo-
tives, thy state of Ireland had become every year
more and more alarming. Every year Ireland had
becotne 'a greater part of the weakness, and a less
part of the strength of the Empire. This was the
natural consequence of the system which had been
pursued. Convention Bills, and Insurrettion Bills,
and other rotten measures of that description,
were made to supply, to that unfortunate coun-
try, the place of a Constitution. He trusted
that he should not be supposed capable of a wish
to excite irritation by these remarks. He was aware
of the embarrassed situation m which any man stood
who thought like him, and who had to speak of
Ireland. If he spoke plainly, an intention was im,
puled to him of exciting dilicontent in the public
mind--if he disguised or concealed facts, he became
n party with those to whom the evils under which
Ireland suffered were justly'to be ascribed. In the
peseta state of Ireland, it wits material that Miro

niteui ei ,t'an it.tv nn the faliliet`i

should ot% that :lemma not regret that he had brought
it forward. In fairness, however, to all parties, he,
would not retrain from declaring, while he arraighed
the conduct of Government on this occasion, that he
could not but admit that the Catholics had duties to
perform. If he were permitted to counsel them, it
would be his most earnest advice to abstain from all
violent measures. Whatever mischief such measures
might occasion to Great Britain, and he admitted
that the mischief would be extensivel it would be
tenfold to Ireland. With this firm conviction, there-
fore, he strongly recomniended to Government a li-
beral toleration, and a telaxation, at least, of the
system which had hitherto been persevered in to-
wards the Catholics of Ireland. He no less strongly
recommended to the Catholic's of Ireland the ut-
most forbearance in the nro,ecution of those • ob-
jetts, to the attainment of which he admitted that,
its hia opinion, they were justly entitled. He coo
eluded by moving, .

" That an humble Address he presented to his Royal
Highness the Print:C. Regent, prayin4 that he would be gra-
ciously pleased to order, that their be laid before the !louse
copies or extraels of such dispatches, trout the Lord Lieu-
tenant of Ireland to the- Seeletar y of state fur the Home De-
partment, and from the Secretary of State for the Ilume•De.
partment to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, as related to the
circular letter of the Right Flon. W. Pole, Chief Secretary
of Ireland, to the Chief Magistrates and Sheriffs of Counties
in that country."

Mr. Youxa declared, that although he could not
agree to the motion of the lion. Gentleman,
!he was
certainly inclined entirely to egree with him in••his
exhortation to the House, anxiously to consider the
state of Ireland, and to 'manifest to that-country the
uttni,st ,conciliation and toleration. No man in the
House concurred, more cordially in that 'sentiment
than himself ; but he was surprised to hear •I he lion.
Gentleman in a part of his speech, charge -Gevern-
ment with having adopted a system of intolerance
towards lieland. This was an assertion which he
distinctly denied. He would never admit, becanSe
Parliament and the Country at. large, were not dis-
posed to concede to. the Catholics that part of the
object at which they Aned, which was termed Ca-
thulic.Emancipation ; that therefore Parliament and'
the Country were to be charaNerised as intolerant.
Without entering into any discussion on the sub-
jed, for which the present was not the proper pe-
riod, fie
,would•state•his opinion, that so far from'
having been intolerant, the systent of Government
pursued by .his-. Majesty. ever since he had ascended
the Throne, was in the highest degiee conciliatory'
and tolerant. That tl c.! situation of Ireland was a
subjed of deep lamentation, he admitted. That
many individuals who were warm friends to the
connection! between the two countries, expressed
their dissatisfaNion that the. point in question was
not conceded,.‘tas a matter of great regret. It was
a. point which could not be conceded; but it did
not thence follow that the Government was into-
levant. the Hon. Gentleman .had observed, that

this was not the time for discussing the meths or
demerits of the recent measures in Ireland. He
wished that that Hon. Gentleman had acted under
this impression, and had contued himself to his mo-
tion, without.indulging himself in teminks which
were calculated to .provoke debate. The circular
loner of the Secretary of the Catholic Committee
sufficiently proved to him that the proclamation of
the Irish Government was the only course which
they had to pursue. Ou the face of that paper ap-
peared a viotation of the law of the law of Ireland
—that law which went to-the prevention of unlaw-
ful Assemblies, colleEted for the purpose of present-
ing Petitions to his Majesty or to Parliament. He
read a pwsage of the Ad, in which it was declared
." that any persons who might give public notice of
such an election or appointment, should be deemed
guilty of a high misdemeanour." He would ask
any one, not a lawyer merely, .bet any candid
Member of. the House, whether the letter of the
Catholic Committee was not an offence within the
Act ? Was not the sitting of the Catholic Com-
mittee an illegal Install* under that Act ? The
Hon. Gelitletnan had contended that it was the
evident, intention. of .the persons by whom the
letter was composed, not to offend Against the law.
He admitted, that there were passages in the let-
ter which bore opt the observation of the Honour-
able Gentleman; but .did that,, alter the mane
of the letter itself, which was substantially a
notice of cleaion or appointment ? He would
ask how it was possible fur Managers to be' sent
from the various counties in Irelaed, to join the
Catholic Committee in Dublin, 'without their hav-
ing been previously appointed or elected ? It was,
therefore, pettedly fair to assume, that the persons
by whom the letter was written knew they were
violating the law, although they wished to give such
a colour to the transaction as should, if possible;
exempt them from-the penalties of that violation.
It this were the fad, the Govermnent of Ireland,
in doing that which they'tad done, bad done
their duty. Certainly the ati of that Government
might not be expedient, although it was justifiable;
and on the expediency the ultimate decision of the
propriety or impropriety of the ad must rest. Fur
his part, on the most attentise view which he could
take of the subject, it appeared to him, that the
Government of Ireland'could nut have acted other-
wise than they had done, unless they had abandon-
ed the controul of the country, said had allowed -I he
violation of law with impunity; The Hon. Gyn.
demon contended, that further information was
necessary. His motion, however, was not calcu-
lated to produce the desired information. If the
papers movesi fur by the Hon: Gentleman were ac-
tually before the House, it would not be fair, either
to the Government of Ireland, or to the Public at
large, to proceed to an exuniaation of the ques-
tion to the limited information which those p,peia
would afford. On this ground, thereiore; namely,
that it was desirable to wail until further intOrma.
lion could, be obiained, he should give his negative
to the motion of the Hon. Gentleman. The Hun.
Gentleman had remarked, that thaletter from the
Secretary of the Catholic Commit.er, bearing the
date of the tit of January, was allowed to lie dor-
mant and unaded upnn for six werks. Now, ac-
cording to the best Information which he was able
to procure, he believed that the tiovrt ()mein of Ire-
land knew nothing of the letter mail jlist berme the
period at which they issued their Proctumanon. Al-
tnot,gb the paper w 0.4 dated the 1,1. of Jamtary (it
which time it wigtit possibly !Java been prepared),
it was not known, on Los side 01 the vvaler. least,
thin it wa circulated until very recently. ; It this

W i....,5,t ~..'....... ... r.:.