Star.
London, England, 1830-06-09 00:00:00

en account of the richness of the country. His argument was this
—when a courtry was poor it had a copper standard—as it grew
r& h it adopted one of silver—and when it became very rich, its
standard became gold. He also said, that where a country was
very poor it would most likely adopt a cheaper metal than even
copper as its standard of currency. He (Mr. Attwood) believed'
that there was no precedent whatever for legislation—for im-
portant legislation, upon such very slight grounds.--(Hear, hear.)
In every country in Europe silver was as that time, as it was
Now, the standard of value, and yet upon such very alight
grounds was it changed in this country upon the suggestion of
his lordship. His lordship, in supporting the measure, said that tha
people had voluntarily adopted a gold standard, and he therefore
contended that there could be no hardship in imposing upon them
by law that which they had adopted by choice. But why,he would
ask.was it that the people had voluntarily adopted a gold currency ?
I t was because gold during the last century was so cheap, that the
people found it their interest to discharge their debts in that metal
in preference to silver. In 1798, however, silver was lower than
gold, and had continued to be so since then. In 1816 there was a
new silver coinage, and the legislature then deemed it neces-
pare to protect the coin from being exported, which had been for-
merly the case, owing to the high price of silver prior to 1798.
Thinng the twenty-five first years of the reign of George the Third
silver was ss. 6d. per ounce, and, according to the price of
re Id at that tinic,'it afforded a profit of six per cent. to those who
brought bullion into the country and carried out silver. (Hear.)
It was therefore though expedient in 1816 that the new coinage
he protected by taking 61 per cent. away from the in.
t' is value of the coin, and to make it no longer a legal tender.
P.. 4 !lament thus took great care to protect the new coin from a
clanger which had not for a long time previously existed ; for surely
that silver coin was secure which was coined at ss. 2d. while the
priee of silver was only 4s. Ild. per ounce. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite (Mr. Henries) had expressed his opinion the other
night, that no silver coin wu in circulation except what had been
issued from the Mint; but he thought he was wrong in that
opinion, for he was most confidently assured that silver could be
coined of the same intrinsic value as that in circulation, and so
well, that it would be impossible for even the Mint to say whether
they had not issued the spurious coin themselves, and that this
coinage could be carried on with a good profit to the coiners. In tides
to shew how possible this was supposed to be in some quarters, be
would ask if the Bank of England had not applied to the Treasury
to indemnify them for any loss they might sustain in this way from
keeping such a quantity of silver. It was rot surprising that the
Bank should make such an application, for, doubtless, the quan-
tity of silver in their coffers must be enormous, when be knew him-
self of one establishment in the North, where an accumulation of
silver had taken place so the extent of 80,0001. in which sum the
difference between the real and nominal value must have been up.
wards of 5,0001. At present gold had advanced beyond the price
of silver. He would appal to those times in which gold bad
similarly advanced, while silver was also the standard ; and
he would, by reference to what had been done in those days
by able men, support the proposition he meant to submit to the
house. In the reign:of Queen Elisabeth gold advanced in value 11
per cent. but Lord Bacon notwithstanding, maintained the silver
standard inviolable. Again gold advanced ten per cent. and again
wait similarly dealt with. It continued to advance until the reign
of William, when its value was thirty.nine per cent. greater than in
the reign of Elizabeth. Now if the price of gold were to increase
39 per cent. within the next 60 years, silver being no longer a stan-
dard of currency, and being no longer a legal tender, it was morally
impossible but that all the concerns of the country must go to ruin.
Under all the derangements of price in the reign of Elizabeth and
the reigns immediately subsequent, the course adopted was
that of adhering to the silver standard, and the country pros-
pered. Now, however. that a different course had been adopted,
the country was reduced to such a condition, that it could not sus.
min the burthens which were brought upon it by the deviation from
former practice. At the present day we were bound to an astringent
standard, which was not the money of the world. Upon these
grounds he trusted that the house would perceive the necessity of
establishing the ancient standard, and that they could not, without
great injustice, keep up the present standard of gold exclusively. In
1819, when the metallic standard was restored, the effects of that
measure were deeply felt by the most important classes of the com-
munity. But then it was said that the house was bound by the con.
tract of a previous act of Parliament, and if it was proposed to make
silver a part of the standard, it would have been cried out against as
a fraud on the public creditor to the extent of 6/ per cent. so that,
in fact, there appeared to be no resource but unmitigated remorse.
less severity (cheers), there was to be no deviation from the path,
however small, even though the farmer was to be ruined, and the
landlord to be confiscated, by this sweeping measure; though
by its means the poor man was to be driven to ruin and to crime,
and all classes to destruction. As far as regarded property,
still there was to be no alternative, for they found themselves
bound by the letter of the previous act to persevere (cheers). If any
member proposed a relaxation of the standard, he would have been
met by the assertion that it would be an abandonment of those pre-
tensions to more than Roman virtue,which could yet witnesa'unmoved
men paying these taxes, and discharging their other obligations, in a
higher value than they ought is justice to do for ten years—could wit-
ness them paying more in pensions and in salaries, and in rent, and
in taxes, than in fairness ought to be demanded from them. (Hsu.)
The object of the standard prior to 1797 was to keep money mire
steady in its value, and this it fully effected. It was not a standard
of gold. It was not a standard of silver. Neither was it a standard
of gold and silver jointly : but it was a peculiar sort of standard,
founded upon these, and hedged round with protecting laws, which,
while they tended to keep the standard steady and useful to the
country, also tended to preserve property inviolable, by preventing
its continual fluctuation in value, and the consequent frequent nib
of its proprietors. (Cheers.) Upon all the grounds he had stated
he thought there existed, in justice' a positive necessity to
give the relief which could not be afforded consistently with
the full operation of the principles of the bill of 1819.
In the year 1810, exactly thirteen years after the standard of value
had been fixed, which had no sort of protection, a Committee was
appointed, which was called Mr. Horner's ComMittee, for the pur-
pose of inquiring whether that paper had been debased in value,
shed they reported that it had been so debased, for it had, they said,
been issued in excess • but still they did not report the extent of Its
debasement, though ;hat was pretty accurately ascertained by other
sources of information. Practical men said that the advance of bul.
lion was no proof of the depreciation of paper money ; but bullion
separated from money was no longer a measure of value, but was a
commodity rising and falling like every other, ',according to sir.
cunistances. The best measure of value was bread corn, and
that had advanced more than bullion—(Hear, hear.)—The bul-
lionists, however, said, that was owing to practical circumstances—
the state of the harvests and importation ; but these circumstances
must have occurred at other times, and yet at no former time had
corn advanced above 50s. a quarter for five years together, whereas
corn,
_in paper money, had advanced to 90s. When the hoar
passed a law to pay paper debts in metal money, they did what
legislation might do; but the effect of that law on the country was
beyond the power of the legislature to contrail That must depend
on the quantity of the precious metals in the world, and the tremen-
dous consequences of the measure corresponded with its monstrous
principle. The distress of the country arose from the changes
of its monetary system. He would go back to the period of
the war when paper debts were paid in paper money. There
was occasional distress, but it was from particular causes, and the
period was in the main a course of prosperity. The of
money was favourable to the trading and labouring c The
peas put a stop to that depreciation; but it also brought an Act al
Parliament to drive the country back to its former payments—that
was, of metal money for paper debts. That act did not differ from
an act to place the Mint in the hands of an irresponsible body, with
power to depreciate the coin as much as they pleased. This was the
effect of the act of 1803, which determined that cash payments should
take place for paper issues. It was the same as to say, debase the
money as you please, and when peace comes we will set all right by
paying in the former coin. If the legislature saw the consequences
of that act it would be an act of monstrous profligacy ; but they
were ignorant of the effeet.--(Hear, hear.) Even in the year
1811, they declared that they were Ignorant of any difference, and
that there was no difference between metal and paper money. If,
then, a contract was made it should be carded into effect like ali other
contracts, according to the meaning. (Hear, hear.) Soon after the
peace, however, the legislature proceeded to act on the letter of the
contract Instead of the spirit, and the consequent suffering was such
as was never before known in England. It was said that there was
distress during the war. He knew there was; it was impossible
there should be such a war without producing distress. The closing
of the American market was the gr_eatest cause of distress during
the war. The learned member for Boaresborough ( Mr. Brougham)
in 1817 described the distress which arose with the peace as
greater than had ever been known since the Norman conquest.
That distress was relieved by retracing OUT steps and increas-
ing the circulation—a measure which produced the prosperityn
of 1818. This was the evidence of the Governor of the
that the distress was relieved by an increased issue of Bank
notes. Paper money was then the legal currency of the country,
and the change of that currency bad produced unexampled suffer-
ing. There had been periods when the people called for the int-
peac.hment of persons by whom the distress of the country was not
; and such a period might arise again, if the House did not
interpose.' (Hear, hear.) The late Mr. Tierney, speaking of the
distress, and the mannain which it had been relieved, said dm Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had come down to the House with a smile
al triumph, and said every thing had occurred as he could have
wished, and the country had returned to a state of prosperity; but
soon after came a bundle of *urns from the Bank, which showed
that a great increue of paper bad been issued, so that tba pros.
perity byaussd au Increase of paper sonny. It was
the Cashion tioN2 of yew mossy as If it was of no more *slue
than she rags of which it was ands; but so keg as It was tbor

money of the country, its material was of little consequence. In
January, 1819, the Prince Regent stated that the manufacturers
were in the most prosperous state ; but four months after the passing
of the Bullion Bal, the crown called upon the Parliament to protect
the constitution from that very people wbo had formed its bulwark
against Europe and America in arms. This apprehension of dawr
was all caused by the distress of the people, the consequence of that
act. This distress was again relieved by increasing the circulation ;
4 millions were added to the circulation. Lord Liverpool stated, that
if the advance of four millions was found to render the standard in-
secure, it must be called back. The fact evidently was, that the re-
servation of the gold standard was weighed in the balance against the
prosperity of the country, and the preference given by Lord Liver-
pool to the preservation of the standard. In 1825, the Ring told
his Parliament that there never was a period in the history of the
country, when all the great interests of the country were in a state so
prosperous. Now all the interests of the country were in a state not
of prosperity, but of peri1....,( Hear, hear.)—The distress was caused
by the drawing in by the Bank of the four millions, the issue of
which had produced the prosperity. Lord Liverpool stated in 1826,
that the Bank in 1825 apprehended danger front the amount of
their issues, and had in that year drawn in threemillions and s half.
This diminution of the currency produced a recurrence of the dis-
tress that had been relieved by its increase. The panic commenced
in November, 1825, and there must be another p ante, if not pre-.
vented by the legislature retracing its steps. Before the country
bankers failed in 1825, distress had reached the Treasury. There
was at present some partial return to prosperity, but he took upon
himself to say that It was produced by an Increased issue of bank
notes, and if that increased issue should be maintained for two years,
there would be no distress amongst the people; but there would
be distress at the Bank, for a metallic and paper standard could
not exist . In 1825, when the country was in a state of
prosperity, gold was leaving it, and paper supplying its place ;
and the same process must take place again to restore that prosperity.
From 1826 to the present time, we had a metallic standard, and hav-
ing adopted the currency of the continent it was impossible perm-
neatly to increase Its amount. Every million that we drew from the
currency of the continent, made every suceeteling million the more
difficult to be obtained. It was said we had now twenty-two
millions of sovereigns in circulation. It was calculated by Mr.
Rose that in 1797 there were forty millions of coin in circula-
tion. He would take the amount then at thirty million; but
from our increased transactions since that period forty millions
would now be necessary : we had but twenty.two millions, so that
nearly twenty militate were still wanting. To get the gold we have
from the continent immense exports of British manufactures took
took place at the prices ruinous to the producers, though the Govern-
ment considered the export a proof of prosperity. In the same de-
gree that the want of gold was diminished, prices would be raised,
and prosperity would return. The apprehension of danger from U.
notes could not be real even amongst those who professed to feel it.
They showed it by their conduct, by permitting their circulation
in Scotland and Ireland and he would not combat an argument
so unworthy. Policy and justice, and public faith all required
that the calculation should be increased to bear proportion to the
amount when the debt was contracted. He should make no apology
for occupying so much of the time of the House, because it became
the functions of that House to be occupied in the consideration of
measures that vitally affected the Interest and the honour of the coun-
try. (Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving two re.
solutions. The first, that it is expedient to repeal so much of the
Act of the 56th of George the Third as declares gold coin to be the
only legal payment, and to declare that it shall be legal to make pay.
ments in gold and silver coin. The second resolution was to repeal
the Act of 1826, prohibiting the issue of Bank notes under the value
of U.

Mr. DAVENPORT said, the house would perceive that he made
a great sacrifice to give them an opportunity of hearing a speech
which had been seldom equalled in that house. The general ob-
jection to resolutions for so great a relief of the public distress was,
that they were too extensive, and the remedies proposed ambiguous
in their results. The hon. gent. had proved that while Ministers
alleged they were following the course of our ancestors, they were,
in fact, taking a course that was peculiar to themselves, and that
was Inconsistent with policy and justice. He supposed he should not
be told that the fact of having passed an Act of Parliament was an an-
swer to the resolutions. If that were the case they must not only be an
hon. house but an infallible house. He supposed antiquity would not
be pleaded for the gold standard, which, it could not be pretended,
was more than 14 years old. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Peel)
pretended—and nothing was too strong for the belief of the house`
that his bill had been in operation for ten years ; but she fact was,
it was only in operation since the abolition of the small notes.
They had the authority of Lord Liverpools book for saying that
the richest country should have the most costly currency. He might
as well have said, " Who drives fat oxen should himself be fat"—
(a laugh). The bullion committee had not assigned any reason
for departing from the ancient silver standard ; and a master of
the mint, Mr. W. Pole, stated that no inconvenience had ever
arisen from silver being the standard of value. Mr. Lock
had said, that by common consent of all nations, silver was the
universal standard of value. The ministerial member for Cal-
lington (Mr. Baring)—(a laugh)—had stated, that by a pedantic
adherence to gold as the standard of value, the country wait in.
jured. He (Mr. D.) was confident this was a just account,
and that the bullion committee had acted on a fallacy. Had history
been examined, it would be found that Venice, Holland, and France
had made the same attempt to substitute gold for silver that we arc
now doing, but they all failed. The gold coin constantly fled the
country ; even Buonaparte, who did things as well as any Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer he ever remembered, (a laugh,) found it
impossible to keep the gold at home. We should find it impos-
sible also. The gold would quit the country ; and though it would
come back again, the trade of the country must suffer in the mean
time. The gold standard placed us in the power of money-
brokers, and we saw how one set of money-brokers lately pu-
nished Austria, the Freudest government in Europe, for pre-
suming to borrow in a cheaper shop. (Hear, hear, hear.) It
was necessary to our dignity that we should get ourselves
out of such a danger. The importation of the precious metals
from South America had lessened four fifths last year. Adam Smith
stated that in his time the consumption and importation of those
metals balanced each other—that consumption had greatly increased
sines Every house now had plate, and even every inn had plate or
plated forks. He thought Ministers, to be consistent with them-
selves. should agree with the first resolution. Lord Liverpool, Mr.
Peel, and Mr. Canning, had all said the country must return to the
ancient standard. That standard was silver, and he called upon the
right honourable gentleman to fulfil his own promise.—The motion
of his honourable friend was divided into two distinct parts, and
voting for the first did not pledge to the second.—He called upon
the house to recollect the evils they had brought upon the country
by the changes they had made in the standard and the currency,
and to redeem as much as was yet possible, the people from the
sufferings those changes had inflicted.
The SPEAKER put the first resolution.
Mr. BARING had no hesitation in admitting that the change in
the had been the cause of much distress throughout the
coun:ltarny7c;he hon. member read extracts from the evidence of Mr.
Thornton, before the Bullion Committee in 1811, to show that the
value of money bad declined gradually since the Bank Restriction
Act. He (Mr. B.) had no doubt but that the real cause of our di&
tress was the restriction of the paper currency, particularly the with-
deawal of the one pound notes. He (Mr. B.) was certain that much
evil arose from the withdrawing of the one pound notes. The cir-
culation of such notes in England and Scotland was a sufficient
answer to the objections made to their circulation in this country.
He would cot go so far as to support his hon. friend (Mr. Attwood)l
in the repeal of the act which rendered gold the only legal tender.
He would prefer a silver standard, as it would afford increased facility
in case them should be a metallic standard. It was his conviction, that
if we did not adopt the system of using the two metals, we should
be compelled to recur to an unlimited paper circulation, whenever a
war &Sad arise. He begged to have it understood that he felt great
reluctence in making any alteration in the currency, because it might
unfix the minds of the public ; but seeing that the present state of
the currency was likely to be productive of much evil, he wished for
such a change as he had proposed.
Mr. HERRIES observed that it was generally understood that
the standard was now unalterably fixed, or this question would have
attracted a fuller house.--(llear, hear.)—Not one argument had
been advanced now which had not been often urged before. The
question was not whether there should be a gold standard, or a gold
and silver standard together, but that there should be such a propor-
, tioa of the one as would drive the other out of the market. He in.
(erred, from the arguments of the gentlemen opposite, that silver
, had been the legal standard up to 1797, and that the debtor
could pay his debt of 1001. at a saving of five per-oent.--(Hear,
j hear.)—He denied that debtors could pay more than 261. in all-
, vet at any one time. They were not then to discuss whether or
no the system adopted in the year 1819 was the most correct.—
, (Hear.)—But the question was, whether or no it was advisable,
, for the sake of relief.—for the benefit of the debtor, to change
the present system of currency. To such a fallacious principle he
should give a decided negative. He condemned any change In the
existing currency. It was too hazardous an undertaking. The
, question of small notes, which he expected would have formed an
, important part in the present discussion, was discarded almost en-
tirely. All ha objections to a depreciated currency were tenfold, as
respected a small note currency. He could not see upon what prin.
ciple the house was called upon to support the motion.
, Lord 110WICE said, that he could not think of benefltting one
class of the community at the expense of another. He should give
, his vote against the first resolution of the hon. mover.
I After some observations from Mr. Ward, Mr. P. Thompson, Sir
i li. Knatchbull, Mr. Fergusson, Mr. Haskason, Lord Milton, Syr
, R. Peel, and Sir R. Vyvyan, Mr. Attwood replied, when the Reso.
, lutions were negatived without a division.
The mhos Orders of the Day were then disposed of; and the
r House Miasma ot Mixt o'CLocs. _

LAW REPORTS.
COURT OP CIII§ERY, Juirt 8.
31:70.111111WICOXIT V. BAWL

These were. two pediso, per the Lord Chancellor would
direct two sums of 10,0001. and MOW. to be laid out in the three
per cents. or order them to be retuned to the Receiver, or to Messrs.
Ramble, Whet, and Forbes. When I consider, said his Lordship,
that the whole question with regard to these parties is now under
appeal in the House of Lords, there is no ground to direct either of
the sums to be refunded, and I should not be justified, under the
present circumstances, to alter the situation of the pinks. With
respect to to the sum of 1,1001. which, I believe, has been arranged'
to pay rent, and another sum advanced to Messrs. Kemble, Willet,
and Forbes, in 1828, they should be paid out of the sum now re-
maining in Court.
Mr. Low ungs.--We do not ask either of those sums to be paid
now. _

The LORD CIIANCILLOIL—Then them Is an end of it. The
question respecting the Receiver's salary I will dispose of on Sa-
turday.
The LORD CHANCILLOR then asked the Solicitor.Oreneral
whether it was the wish of all parties that the appeal of Harris and
Kemble, now in the House of Lords, should be disposed of this
Session, as an application had been made for that purpose, but it
was opposed on the part of Harris, who was abroad P
The SoLicrrna-Ozxntsz. said, personally to himself it would
be very inconvenient; and with regard to Mr. Harris, he bad
brought a new Counsel in the case, who must necessarily go through
the whole matter.