Star.
London, England, 1830-02-12 00:00:00

the court should be empowered to do the act for him, and set the
prison doors open for his release despite of his own perverse ob.
stinacy.—(Hear.) The returns moved for showed that the number
of persons confined for contempt!' fmm 1812 to 1820 were twenty
in number. One had been confined for 35 years--two for 14.
He knew himself one very singular cm of a person, who, though
confined for 19 years, still obstinately refused to avail himself of
the offers of service made to obtain his liberation. Since 1820
eight only had been in custody for contempt.--one of whom, a
member of Lloyd's, was so obstinately bent on continuing in
prison, after seven years confinement, that though the attorney
could not be found who procured his commitment, he had actually
recourse to a false affidavit of debt to prolong his continued incarce-
ration in a prison where he had become domiciled. In the year
1827 there was but one person thus confined for contempt. and his
was a case of voluntary and obstinate confinement. Of all those in
confinement he could safely say there were now none whose cases
might not be considered, and their persons released from confine.
ment, within a fortnight after the passing of this bill. The hon.
and learned member concluded by moving for leave to bring in
a bill to consolidate and amend the laws in existence relating
to the enforcement of payment of debts chargeable on real estates.
Mr. HUME admitted the value of the nonourable and learned
gentleman's suggestions or. the important improvement he medi-
tated in a branch of the law to which he begged to remind the house
he himself had in vain called its attention so far back as the year
1821, when lie obtained returns on the subjct. In 1823, he again
had called the attention of the house to the subject, when the pee.
sent Lord Chancellor had expressed himself in favour of the practice
of compelling persons in contempt to fulfil the decrees of the Court
of Chancery, whom he denominated victims often to their
own obstinacy, and not to the indignation of violated
laws. lie hoped that the spirit of improvement would not
stop bete, and that the Solicitor General would follow up so
laudable a precedent in the other branches of our law,which loudly
called for reform and improvement. He was glad that reform bad
come at any time, but he must say that it might as well, but for
the shameful neglect of the present Chancellor's predecessor, have
been effected any time within these ten years past That neglect
of the public interest he must condemn as disgraceful to that high
fuectionary, who had it in his power, perhaps more than any Lord
Chancellor, to have affected this most desirable reform. The ap.
peal had been made to that noble lord in vain, in 1819 and in 1820,
by himself, when the case came on of a poor old woman, who had
trot only suffered an imprisonment of 31 years, through the iniquity
of the law, but had actually died in prison, an object of general
compassion, within its walls.
The SOLICITOrt.GENERAL and Mr. HOME explained.
Lord AI/PM/RPM: supported the motion, and regretted that the
improvement had not been adopted in preceding years. The country
would not fail to contrast the conduct of the present with the late
public officers in that department of our establishment, much to
the disadvantage of the predecessors of the present noble Inrd,and the
lion. and learned gentleman, to *hem the country was, he hoped,
about to be so essentially indebted.
Sir C. IVETH Elt ELL confessed that, after the sweeping at-
tack which had been made on the late law officers of the crown,
lie felt it his duty to take the honourable member for alontrote
a little to task for the 'aches of which he himself had been
tor so many years guilty. (A laugh and hear, hear.) How was
it that the honourable member did not interest himself in the in.
gully instituted into these matters by the committee on the Chan-
cery Court, on which occasion that distinguished lawyer, Lord lel.
don, equallized himself with the youngest barrister, and the
merest tym in the law, in his anxiety to investigate every proposi-
tion which be deemed useful ? That roble lord had so completely
the interest of the inquiry into his court and its practices at heart,
that he exnressed his determination to assist on all occasions when
his advice or legal knowledge might be of advantage to the cam.
mi.tee, and to withdraw from it the moment subjects were enter.
tainid wherein it might be esteemed desirable to allow the rein to
he thrown more freely on the tuck of discussion. After thus glancing
at the promptitude and anxiety of that illustrious individual who
was as amiable as a man as he was distinguished as a great lawyer
to improve that court, he would ask how it wits that in his mighty
designs to reform the reptmentation, the church, the state, the ex-
cise, the army and navy, nobody heard of the cooperation or acti.
vity of that ever.prying, never-failing, sempiternal, omnigenous,
encyclopedical reformer, the hon. member for lilontroee. The
noble lord row reproached with Inertness, or worse than inertness,
did every thing in his power, on tout occasion, to increase tln juin-
d;ction of that commission, to which the hon. member would not
tuontribute the mite of Isis intelligence. The honourable member
seemed either not to know, or to forget, or be ignorant of the value
of the noble lord (Eldon's) improvement of the law, for which every
Man of landed property in that House would; or, at least, should te
grateful. He alluded to the important change in the law, relative
to levying a fine and suffering a recovery, in order to dispose of an
estate. Or was it possible the honourable member could forget
'the improvement that noble lord suggested in the practice of the
court of Chancery, relative to executors ? To that noble ler'
they were indebted for the abolition of the practice of a frau.
dulent executor obtaining some friends to bring an injunc-
tion against his distributing the property committed to hie
charge ; and the affidavit which began from that time to be
required, according to the practice of that:Court, was the means of
eetesting the too frequent recurrence of a practice so injurious to
>uirors there. Theexecutnr before that had the power of keeping
ender this pretext, 50,000/. or 100,000/. for years in [mulct, as the
Honourable Reformer of slontrose had kepi the Chancery Returns
tie boasted he had moved for in his pocket—(A 'argil.) As far as
the general principle went, it had his entire approbation. It was
a great improvement of the law to determine that when a person
was prevented by poverty or bad advice, or even by contumacy,
there should be a person empowered to do far him what the Lord
t bencellor might decide to be necessary.
r. O'CONNELL complimented the solicitor-general on the
(Warts he had niude to amend the abuses of die law. lie defended
tire lion. member for 51ontrom from the remarks made by the last
speaker upon his omission to attend the commission. What could
that Iron member do there? What had the commission dune? How
much had it coat the country ? Perhaps die hon. meniber for Mon.
nose could tell the house. What had Lord Eldon done, during the
many years he had ant in the court, to reform these abuses? He had
brought in a bill to do away the fees on fines and recoveries, and a bill
regulating the common pleas: this was all ho had done during the
2.. yearn he had been chancellor (no no); and this was a ground for
eulogium ! He had hot done in 25 years what the solicitor-general
hid done in so short a time.

le are was then given to bring in the several bills.
t881•E OP nOLD

Mr. ATTWIN'tI) mile to move for a return of the issue of sove-
r,igas and halt sovereigns nom the Ist of January, 1826, to the 31st
Verember, to 1, toot inclusive, distinguishing the amount paid, the ieceived, and the balance. The hon. member proceeded,
5.0101,4 NN.iC ttois.2 and interruption, to comment upon the state-
ierin of the Duke tot Wellington respecting the quantity tif money •
Ii circulation. The noble duke had stated that the amount in zit.
ciliation Y.:11465MM 000/. 'Phis, lie conceived, FM impossible ; and It
was important to obviate such mistakes, because upon there state.
ark not the most important political measures were sometimes founded.
Up such statemelos did a forma Chancelkir of the Exchequer found
!hose very wafture% which were the cause of the pretient clistreits.—
Meat, Isar.) He told the country that we were in sight of the
out, that a little liminess and another effbrt would make us to
leech it. The ministers went on, amidst the distress and salami.
has of the pimple, and told the country that there taunt be no in-
quiry ; that they liwl nothing to do but to s'iut their eyes, and
meccas WAS certain. (Bear.) What confidence. then, could the•
bons., bsve in the siatentents of !if iniaters i' It • had been said bya .
',mat pttilo.ophet, that firmness was no useful quality %M.
6sa mooed with prtitt wisdom. (near, hear.) lie warned the go-
% ritimett i.f die consequences of their proceeding; they had involved
the country in greater =lentil: is than it had ever known, and had
sceamulated nil their own heads a greater wrigitt of responsibility
roan any gi.verimit et Os parliament had ever iiicarred. The noble
duke had asserted that there W;e4 now 65,1011,0001. in circulation;
gist 'hire was thetefore no need of any addition to it, for
!elm it was as much as the country wanted; and the Chan.
Cei;dle at the Exchequer said there was as much now as in
IVA. but whatever ntuney was circulating in a country
most he it the possession of its inhabitants ; and hi (Mr.
.1 t rime.) uttild ask the different classes whether they found it. wax
? tic :toted ask the landlords whether they gist the .awe rents
as tinmerly— the merchants the faille profits ?—whether the mama.
uciurtra paid the same wages? Were the receipts sit the monied
ilittiest the same as two years ago ? Did the I acitequer get as
ettich ? Did it not get 20,0110,000 i.: less ? Notwithstanding the
goat quantity of sovereigns in the country, the labourers got
uutii of them. Instead of money they got shoes, and hats, and coats.
A. case hail been stated to him, on the beat authoritya in• which
a labours rya:iced. fur •a week's wort, a joint of mutem ; and
having a child which he wanted to have christened, he carried
the child and the joint to the clergyman, and desired 'hint to .cut
• If as mucleas would pay the bair banal •fee: (A laugh.) it -tire
non y was really in the annul% and nut its the hands of the Mhos
Litton*, it was a daunt/dance worthy of inquiry by a committee
where the 'stoney lay. if *such• a totinnittice- were' not agneal. u.
motion would tend to solve that' cornintieum,—thaecnigettmt
the Duke sit Wellington, which Mid.' been put forth to amuse the
purple at thlk pitied of 'distrait.. The minutiae or the noblo-ddke
was this: lit assumed thht Wirth! Iteriteigna wliklitad'beentiseued;
s4l,t sit millions which had been expertte.willibuttlie knowledge
of the Bank, remained ifi circulation: :Stitt:UO*64oll6 of sovereign
RMIS place unknown to the tient.. • 14. bearded Jdly 181114,/and W.
"1"/ler,1825, 6,oooteMbhad•been -exported Maw Ilitrlbunceel
Hank, was it possible to conceive diming/Ili fa Belida wthrhot
etported unksowa to them?. Then; did abbetabientects, who lived
foreign COMillitat cars; away, no •asnarslgttalf It waa well
bust. mat the small teasels that voned4fie•wessararpostof lfig.
ith eggs, butter and cnbei things, *carried imict nothing but

gold. Since the abolition of that laws rail& prohibited the expor-
tation of coin—one of those impeoremmats upon the barbarous igno-
rance of our ancestors, which we owa to the political economists of
the present day, but which he &could name owe to regard as • most
Impolitic measure—one of its consaqummes was, that as it made the
rips,
melting of the coin legal, it became adran to the manu-
facturers, the jewellers, the refines, and the alwaysto sup-
ply the gold they wanted Out of effendi= than bars of geld.
Both were at the same price, but the soveretigns were man conve.
nient and more divisible. Instead of sending to Loudon for bars of
gold, they therefore melted down sovereigns which were convenient
in another respect, inasmuch as the alloy they contained was useful
in the manufacture of buttons and other sticks. Thus there was a
constant flow of sovereigns to the manufacturing districts, for
which the government had not allowed, but had assumed that all
the sovereigns issued but 6,000,000 were still in existence.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER complained of the
inconsistency of which the hon. member for Callington was guilty,
In stating that all the returns which had been presented to Par-
liament respecting the amount of the currency were fallacious, and
in concluding his speech with a motion for a fresh return which was
but a continuation of a former return on which the former judg-
ment of the House had proceeded. He protested against the sweep.
ing assertions which had been made by the hon. member against
the accuracy of.the statements made by such members of the govern-
ment as were specially bound by their duty to examine closely into
these matters. He thought that he should be able to show that the
hon. member himself had been guilty of errors not a whit less im.
portant than those of the Government against which his speech
was so pointedly directed. The foundation of the hon. inember's
speech was a speech which had been recently delivered in another
place bythe noble duke at the head of the administration. That speech
contained a comparison of the mutant of the circulation at the time
when the Bank restriction was in full force, with its amount at the
present moment. The comparison was founded on documents of a
corresponding nature for the two periods ; therefore any error which
nigh occur in itwould be of trifling and inconsiderahle importance. In
such cases, all that could be done was to approximate as closely as
men could to the truth, and to see that the data used in the compari-
son were of a similar and corresponding nature. The hon. member had
stated that the Duke of Wellington had urged the amount of the cis.
culation at present as an excuse for not examining into the causes and
extent of the existing distress. To that statement he must, with all
respect to the bon. member, give a most positive denial. The
noble duke was replying to those who thought that the existing dis.
tress could be cured by an unlimited circulation of that which was
not the coin of the country, but a fictitious substitute for it; and
as a proof that the distress had not been incurred by the suppres.
sion of the small paper in circulation, had instituted a comparison
of the amount of coin now in circulation, and of that which was in
circulation during the Bank restriction act. The honourable mem.
her represented the noble duke to have declared that every sovereign
coined at the !dint, bating six millions, were now in circulation.
Now he begged leave to say that the noble duke had stated no
such thing, l'he noble duke had stated that there were twenty.
six millions now in circulation; but the noble duke knew as well
as he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) knew, that the total amount
of sovereigns coined was 44,800,0001. In that surplus of more
titan 16 millions, the hon. member would find the awirces of that
supply on which had dilated with PO much perverted ingenuity.
The right hon. gentleman then proceeded to contend, that so long as
the foreign exchanges were in favour of England, there was no
danger of gold going abroad as an article of merchandise. It was a
gratuitous assumption to suppose. but not a more gratuitous assump-
tion than many of those in which the hon. member had himself in.
dulged--that those who were engaged in there:mile transactions
would, for the mere sake of amusement, carry abroad a great mass
of our circulation. He admitted that gentlemen might take out a
small quantity of gold with them when they left this country; but
he denied that when they went to live entirely abroad, their rents
were remitted to them in sovereigns. Even if that should be the
case, which was most improbable, he thought that the house would
aver with him, that so long as the exchanges were in favour of
England, those sovereigns would find their way buck to us • and fur
this reason,—that they would be a species of remittance which could
be made herewith advantage. He would not deny that when the ex.
changes were unfavourable to us, it was probable that the greatest
quantity of coin would he exported. It was impossible to say with
accuracy to what extent the exportation would be carried, that could
only be matter of calculation. The basis of the calculation must rest,
however, upon this principle—that when the exchange was against
us, every sovereign would go abroad. This was rot an unfair cal..
culation : if it was sopposed that sovereigns were colleeted;for the
purpose of exportation, the vacuum would have to be supplied by
larger draughts upon the Bank ' • and supposing gold to be exported
more largely than it was drawn from the Bank, then, as in favoura-
ble times, he took it fur granted that there was no greater amount of
geld in the country than was issued by the Hank, so, in unfavour.
able time, he must takejthe quantity of gold exported to reach nearly
the same amount. The hon. member for Calderon had made, how.
ever, soother notable discovery. He had found out that at the close
of die war there were in circulation no less than 10 millions of
guineas. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did DM know on
what authority the hon. member made such an assertion. The
house must be as well aware as he was, that during a considerable
period of the was the guinea was worth 38s.,—that there was wgreat
demand for them on the continent fur the purpose of melting,—and
that the exportation of them being then prohibited, whatever was
done either to export or bring them back, was equally contrary to
law. He alluded to this circumstance, bemuse the how member
seemed to suppose that there had been a gnat importation of gui.
areas at the close of the war. The guineas then in circulation were
afterwards called in, and the Outage of them for. sovereigns, which
then took plate, amounted 4,000,000—a sum which the noble duke
had nouns d as the baste of his caladatiosis. Another objection,
which the hon. member fur Calluigeen had started, was the dif.
*mice in the amount of country bank-notes in circulation in 1825,
as stated by the Duke of Wellington and by him (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) iu a speech! which he had made last year. The
hon. member had stated, that he (tlte Chancellor of the Exchequer)
had deelire•i iu tilt 0,3111i011 to be, that the amount of small notes
in circulation did nut exceed 2,500,000 How was that to be
reconciled, asked the hon. member, with the declaration of the
Duke of Wellington, that it reached 8,000,000? Here, again,
he must beg the honourable !limiter fur Callington to remem-
ber, that the statement of the noble duke was one of nure•com.
Feriae?). lie had taken the number of notes which had been
stamped for a certain number of years before 1817, and wtrik.
ing an average, had talon it as the amount of the circulation at
that time. In estimating the circulation at present, he had taken
the number of notes, which had been stamped for the same number
of years, previously to the present, both one pound notes and
those of a higher value, and then he: had deducted trout the
number the number of the lower testes which had been withdrawn
from circulatiost. That, undoubtedly, and of necessity, would be an
etruneotsa calculation as to the amount of country bank notes iu
Ambition; fur they all knew that in the number of notes so stamped
during Inc last tour years a great quantity had been withdrawn
from caculuation, whilst others had been discredited front the
failure of those who issued them • and therefore the number of
notes actually in circulation fell :hurt of what it 'appeared to be
on the lint caleulatton. The Mull would perhaps recollect that
in 1828 lie had publicly declared ;hat the withdrawal of tht 11. notes
would lead to an extended circulation of the 5L notes, and that what-
ever inconvenience might be felt by the withdrawal of the inferior
circulation would be made tip by a larger issue of the higher. The
hon. member toe Calliope's doubted the accuracy of that statement.
He would therefore read a atatentent of the notes which had been
stamped at various periods to show that what he had calculated
upon had been verified to no inconsiderable: degree. The *heli-
um of the 1/. nom took' place on the Itch day of April, 111:0J;
and if the house would allow hint to read the amount of notes stamped
in the various quitters preceding that period, they would see mist
effect the approach of that abolition had produced upon the paper
circulation: la the quarter endmg the 5 h of April, 1827, the
autount of bf. notes stamped was 3/32,0001. In the quarter ending
the sth of July, in the same year, it wits 244,0001. (tn the 10th
Oct. 1827, it was 285;0001. t au thin bth Jew. I 28; it was 317,0001.
On the 28th of April it was 318,0001. (In the sth of July it was
2311,8804 On the hush of October It was 408,0001. and then, as the
period was approaching at which- thell. notes were to be withdrawn,
the effect. of that regulation became visible; for on the bth ot Jan.
t re ailment or W. nano! was 867,41e04. and on the sth of
April 73i,000:. making in dime two quarters which i tttt nediately
precedes the withdrawal of the U. notes. a surplus. over the
amount of the two which preceded them, of 1,600,0001. over
700,0005 He made that statement, bemuse it was• a subject
en which doubts had been expreamd, and • tin: which than doubts
had been a inctiontai by the authority of the honourableanesaber for
Calliugton. It was wily tight to add, that shortly afterwards
the -amount oflivepound•tonts thus :bumped fell to nearly their
Mawr •level: lie had now, goats through all the points in the
lionuurable member's 'peach which he conceived worthy ref
notice. (Hear, hear.) There was one other point, however • which
he ulnae mention, lest the honourable member should be however,
into
an erne by. the • ?reduction -of -the' very • paper for which he had
been menage Mae paper -would i wily • show the amount of
geld. which bad been• put- him: circulation by. die Husk: of
EsigitueL New the Memel& number auustbe sea* tilt fear
last•year and a liallthe Mint had-been-coisting wavercisim;fue every
indivoluak who -had taken- Milian to it. lie sheidurt thou* it
nglit to infisto the boo.: somber that: the Dumber vi surreicipit
thus added. to theicineoladoola the last yeer andta half-aniounteito
i,700,000. lie 'Multi:Mee bien IstippY tabu* dilemmad thti mint
aeo: altar theme:rim which the bon member ttasi•jostsnosed
worplitead upiet she labia • but. thetium•inisible .had-dialieteged
tam trasolarimion, and he, wavy .titeseilkecteuipeitedotei
two it.- He Amid two be atheist mane" the hem gietlibmweirrbill
qu►staeoraitsrle bmkolbosinea the urformitosefof. whiatinbe was eta
; tocetreciter was dim atm. iniondeasin would: bserritemall
:are yusiamis Which by Rea diet eight advanced b.lore the hum

The hod. member bad committed several errors in the erszas"ij.
speech ; but he was sme that they arose from want a
and not from any desire to misrepresent the causes ads distress of
the (*nary.
Mr. BARING felt ft necessary to make oat or two obsenra.
dons on a statement which had been made elsewhere, and which had
abated great surprise in every quarter to which it had penetrated.
Sates:ram of that kind were made more positively than eau.
rattly for though the right honourable gentleman opposite had
stated fairly enough the grounds of his calculation, it was, In his
opinion, impossible for any one acquainted with the movanent
coin in the country to ascertain with precision the amount of gold in
circulation. To show that• his statemeat was correct as to the in-
creased amount of the issues of li!. notes a short time previous to the
suppression of the I/. notes, the right bon. gentleman had stated,
that in two quarters they amounted to 1.000,0001. being an excess
of 900,000/. over those issued in the two preceding quarters: but
the right hon. gentleman had, at the same time, admitted that they
had afterwards fallen to their former level. Now he was of opinion
that the right boa. gentleman would have acted more tidily, if he
had attributed that increase to accidental circumstances. and net
to any fixed cause. He thought with his hon. friend that a large
quantity of the gold had disappeared from the circulwitin ; for it
was notorious to all persons, that the coin of the country was now
thrown into the melting-pot by out goldsmiths instead of bullion.—
(Hear.) lie therefore recommended parliament to look, not only
at the amount of the gold coin in circulation, but also at the cx.
pause wh ch it cost the country. The question of seignorage was
one on which much doubt existed. In foreign countries, and espe-
cially in France, the coining was done at the expense of the master
of tile mint, whereas in this country the master of the mint was fouad
to be rather an expensive article.—(A laugh.) IVltenever there was
a great demand for gold abroad, our sovereigns were immediately
laid hold of ; and that circumstance affected_ not only the foreign
exchanges, but also the market price of gold in this country.
When he heard that the value of commodities wax reduced from
100,000,0001. to 60,000,0001. in this country he was afraid that
there must have been a reduction in the same proportion in our cir-
culation. As he was not aware that this question was to come under
consideration that evening, he was not prepared to go further into
it at present; nor was it necessary that he should, as his honourable
friend's motion was merely to get figures as data for conclusions,
and not to arrive at any conclusions for the present. He had been
accused, and perhaps might be again, of making half his speech
on one side of a question, and the other half of it on the other (loud
cries of" hear,^ and a laugh ;) hut it was necessary that the facility
of one side should be contrasted with the security of the other, and
that an equal balance should be held between them.
ATT WOO) replied, and reiterated all his statements,
which, he contended, had been in no way invalidated by the state.
ments that had been made by the right hon. gentleman °prole (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer).
The CHA NC ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained.
'l'he motion was then put and agr.ed to, and the several returns
moved for by the hon. member mdered.