The Sun.
London, England, 1842-08-08 00:00:00

I M PERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, August 6.
The House met to-day shortly after two o'clock, the
Earl of Shaftesbury taking h►s seat on the Woolsack, in
the absence of the Lord Chancellor.;
MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS.

A Messt4ief;;;tl;&nilmon by bir G. Clerk and
others, brought up the Exchequer Bills Bill, the
Consolidated Fund Appropriation Bill, the Canada
Loan Bill, the Ecclesiastical Leasing Bill, the East
India Bishoprics BiU, and the Lunatic Asylum (Ireland)
Bill, ail of which were read a first time. and ordered to
be read a second time on Monday.
A. Message also brought up the Bonded C 4 Bill and
the Court of Chancery Offices Bill, stating thati -the
House of Commons had agreed to the amendments of
their Lordships.
The House then adjourned till Monday at Ten o'Clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Aug, 6.
• -
The Rouse met to-day at Twelve o'Clock.
The consolidlted Fund (Appropriation) Bill was read
a third time, and passA
The Exchequer (9,193,0001.) sill was read a
third time, anti passed.
The SlitYe Trade (Portuguese vessels) Bill was read a
second time,-and ordered to be committed on Monday.
NE WFO UNDL AND BILL.

The Order of the Day for bringing up the Report of
thi4 Bill was read, and the Report was received.
On the motion that the Bill be engrossed,
Mr. B. %VAL f, said he objected to the principle of
the Bill. He objected to the Bill because he had no in-
formation to go upon.—(Laughter.) A Bill of so great
importance as this should be fully understood by every
Member who voted upon it. But when he looked at the
papers before them, he asked what was the information
they contained ? 'The Noble Lord gave them some in-
formation, but that was just enough to induce them to
vote with the Noble Lord.—(Elear, hear.) He should
oppose- the Bill in every step, and would be glad to di-
vide against the Noble Lord. He proposed as an amend-
ment that the Bill be engrossed this day three months.
Mr. P. HOWARD seconded the motion.
Mr. HUME recommended a division, that they might
have en opportunity of expressing their opinions by
their votes.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, when there ap-
peered—
For the amendment .. 21
Against it
Majority against the amendment
The Bill was then ordered to be engrossed, and the
third reading fixed for Monday at twelve o'clock.
MINES AND COLLIERIES BILL.

eOn the Order of the Day being read for the considera-
tion of the Lords' amendments to this Bill,
Lord ASHLEY entered into a defence of the Report of'
the Commissioners. He • believed that that Report had
been most carefully prepared, with the utmost impartiality
and the strictest adherence to truth; he was convinced of
this not only by the fact of the high honour and respect-
ability of the Commissioners, but from numerous corn-
meineutions which he• had received from the most
influential coal owners of the kingdom, confirming in
e.t cry respect the statements contained in that Report.
It had been said in another place that his (Lord Ash-
ley's) statement, that the whole trade in the north
*as in favour of his Bill—that such a statement was
sn exaggeratitm—was, in fact, a trick and chicane. He
denied that his statement was exonerated, and in con-
firmation of it read several communications from parties
who were interested in the subject. Though the amend-
ments made by the Lords in the Bill would invalidate
to a great extent the utility of the measure, yet he ac-
wpteti those ;neendinents r..n necount of the great prin.
cipte inveleed in the Bill. The Noble Lord concluded
by moving the adoption of the amendments.
After a few words from Mr. -FORBES,
Lord PALM Its-rox said it was with great pain be
observed the amendments made by the I-loose of Lords
in this Bill, because those amendments went to de-
terierate the spirit of improvement in the leeis-
lature of this country evinced in this Bill, to which
there could be no objection whatever On political
,greueds. lint under the circumstances stated by the
'Noble Lord, he (Lord Ashley) had exercised a sound
diseredue in not calling on the House to negative these.
amendments. It was quite right, as the Noble Lord had
said, that these amendments, if carried out, would
nullity the most important provisions of the Bill, but
it was to be hoped that the owners of mines
would counteract the effect of those amendments.
Me regretted that the cordial support promised by the
aavernment had not been given to the Bill. He would
not 3ccuse them of any insincerity, but their reluctance
to ohj.act to these amendments proved that there was a
power greater than their own which exercised a sort of •
coercion over them. When the gentlemen were in
.oppesition they were in the habit of taunting
the late Government with giving way to the power of the
other House-of Parliament, but it appeared that the pre-
sent Government was subjected to the same kind of

coercion.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the observations of the Noble
bard rendered it necessary to offer a few remarks in re-
turn, for the sake of his own personal vindication. On
the introduction of the measure nothing could be
more sincere and cordial than the support which he
rave the measure, reserving his judgment as to a
Yaw details, such as the limitation of the hours of work-
ing for boys between ten and thirteen years of age, and
the re:eospective effect of the indentures of apprentice-
ship. Th.; Noble Lord had insinuated that his colleagues
in the other .House of Parliament had not been disposed
to support the I3ill ; he denied the assertion that many
improvements contained in • the measure had been ob-
structed by the other House of Parliament. What
were the present enactments of the Bill ? Why, the
employment of boys under the age of ten years, was
wohibited' there was a limitation of the period of
pl'enticoship, and the employment of females in mines
was also prohibited. All the. great principles for which
the Nsksle Lord had contended stood as they.were origins
ally meat;t. lie believed that if the alterations had 'not
been consented to by the Noble Lord who had the con-
duct of the Bit rin the other House, his colleagues in
.the other House would not have acquiesced. Having
gone. into the details of the amendments the
Right Hun. Baronet proceeded to state that he car-
Willy did not think the alterations were inconsistent
'with the principles of the enactment. He thought !
they were fair, reasonable, and just modifications.
With regard to what the Noble Lord had stated of the co-
ercion exercised over the Government by the other
House of Parliament, he had no reasca to believe but
tbat his colleagues in the other House, possessed
ws,tt in a superior, but in an equal degree, the
coOdence of that House, as they (the Ministry)
did tii.‘t of the House of Commons. In the
course or this session the Government had car-
ried througAt both Houses many extensive and im-
portant measures. They had commenced the session,
now so near its ,end, possessing the confidence of Parlia-
tneUt, and he believed they had not _forfeited it at its
elose.—( Hear, hear:)
Lord ASHLEY, in etplanatian, stated, that when the
course was taken in the House which rendered the
elmanges inevitable, he (Lord Ashley) was asked if be
would. consent to them ? His reply was, that he could
not help himself ; and that he was disposed to sacrifice
the child.ren in order to save the women.
Mr. V. SMITH did not think the declaration of cor-
dial support of the Bill, made by the Government, had
been fulfilled.
Mr. S. WORTLEY regretted that these amendments
had been made. Stilt he thought the Noble Lord had
acted judiciously, on the whole, in acceding to them.
: Mr. CHARLES BULLER said as the Noble Lori
had acceded to the amendments, those who warmly
a. *imported the Bill would not dissent from them. But
be mart say, that the w hole force of the discussion made
the value of the :amendments less and less. Till the
Right Monourable Baronet defended them, he was
trot- aware how utterly worthless they were.—(Hear.)
He was afraid that the House of Lords was rather in-
elitied'te consider every measure in its relation to landed
property, ratlwr than to humanity ; but it had been hoped
that the influence of the Government would have in-
duced the Lords to pass -this Bill without amendment.
What trus:, could they have after hearing the sure
per:, given by the Right Honourable Gentleman
oppoteite to this Bill, when they heard one member of
-. the Government in that House say that the Government
was passive, and another most illustrious member of that
Govetnanent sneer at the evidence upon which it was
founded? True the House of Lords had passed the In-
' come-tas: and the Tariff, although he believed they
would have made the latter infinitely worse if they had
not beet; prevented from doing so by the rules of the
House. lie was afraid also that they would damage the
Bribery EH, notwithstanding the assurance given by
the night I [on. Baronet, that he would support it.—(A
voice from the ,Ministerial side of the House—" The
Bribery Bill has pissed.") He was very glad to hear it
was out of danger.—{Cheers and laughter.)
Sir R. PEEL said it was curious to contrast the fears
of lion. Gentlemen at the beginning of the session with
the fears expressed by them at the present moment. The
House of Lords had during the present session given
their ready assent to the Corn Bill and the Tariff, two
measures making greater changes than any which had
been introduced of late years. Yet all that was of no avail,
for the Hon. Gent. could not calm his fears of a collision
between the two Houses, because the House of Lords had
made some alterations in a Bill for regulating mines and
collieries, which had not been brought in by a Member
of the Government.(Cheers from the Opposi-
tion.) He believed that the Bribery Bill woulA
pass tile House of Lords without amendment, but
he • would not pledge himself that the House of
Lords should adept all the details of any Bill. The
House of Lords was a deliberative body, 'and ,had ti
perfect right to make any modifications in the Bill
which they Might think proper.—(Cheers.) With re-
gard to sortie of the amendments, he would admit
that he- ..eas sorry they had been adopted.—(licar.)
But with vegaki Va some of them, he thought they
were improvetne nts. For instance, suppose a man
working in a mele* should break his leg, or should be at
the Point of death, ao the Bill had left the Commons it
would be- contrary te law for his wife or daughter to
come into do. mint; to se, sJilin, In many cases, the entrance
to the mine was through am s adit;mmo that persons could walk
int° it' Nnw,it'would isel •a wiltsAi to prohibit a child from
taking its father's dionctr t, hint while working in the
mine. The object of the law .should be to distinguish
b,t„,,teu young persons going int.. mines for the purpose
of hying employed there, and sets ig persons entering a
mine for other purposes. Under 0111 iretunstances he re-
ferred to, he thought it would be a Uavaihip to prevent the
wife from entering the collieries to visa ),"he husband ; but
it might be necessary to prevent al muses..,He agreed with'
what had been said as to the credit -which Vt:6 due to his
Noble Friend for his exertions this .eause ; but he
was sure the satisfaction which he. must fes't in his own.
mind would be greater than whet the could dt"ive
any other source. He protested. against the wtrin
that the /reuse of Lords had tot s. right to make • misty
2wealdrnents . which it deemed ezdliersble in the ILL „