The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-30 00:00:00

was the result even then ? The Bill was re-committed and af-
terwards thrown out; thus entailing prodigous expense on the
parties who were interested in the success of the measure.
There ought to be a court of ape-al in which the whole inquiry
could take place, and the merits of the Bills argued. He
trusted that Government would take this matter into its most
serious consideration. At present these questions were
generally decided by parties without local knowledge
or opportunities of forming a competent opinion on
their merits He considered they ought to transfer all the
powers now held by Committees to a general board, a com-
petently constituted tribunal, which should have power of
examining evidence, deciding the preambles of Bills, and re-
porting the same to the House. The reports to be treated in
the same manner as coming from Committees of that House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought that
it was worthy of consideration whether some alteration could
not be made in the present manner of conducting these inqui-
ries before Committees.

Mr. WILLIAMS ;ecommended the bringing forward Bills
earlier in the session as a means of facilitating business. He
complained that within the last month so many as eleven Bills
had been introduced into the House.
Lord PALMERSTON wished to say one word on the sub-
ject of accidents on railways, and on the outset he thought it
necessary to state that this was not the first act of care-
le-sness of which this particular local railway had
been guilty. In November last he came by one of their
trains to London ; he was in his own carriage, which
was turned with its back to the engine, and had ample oppor-
tunities of seeing what was going forward behind the train.
'F. re train was drawn by an engine in front, and propelled occa-
sionally by an engine behind; and if an accident had happened
in any of the tunnels, the engine behind must have
inevitably run into his carriage, for there was only a
small luggage-waggon between the carriage and the
locomotive. 'Just previous to arriving at a station the engine
behind dropped off, so that the passengers might not be aware
of what was going forward, and after the train had passad the
station, up came the assistant engine again.—( Hear, and a
laugh.) He mentioned the circumstance to the Board of
Trade, and he then ascertained for the first time
that the company, from some false motive of economy, had had
a number of engines built which were not sufficiently powerful
to work the line, and they were, therefore, compelled to receive
the aid of an assistant engine. His principal object in rising,
however, was to call the attention of her Majesty's Government
to a subject of far greater importance—he meant the
present state of the national defence of the country.—( Hear. )
Any man who valued peace, or who was at, all sensible of the
advantages derivable from peace, must feel that this was a mat-
ter of first-rate importance, because upon the existence of
peace depended the prosperity of the trade and com-
merce of the natio'i.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He had
occasion to state on a former day, that France
maintained a standing army of 340,000 men fully equipped,
with a large cavalry, and a large artillery, and in addition to
this she had nearly a milion of the National Guards of Paris,
trained, disciplined, reviewed, equipped, clothed, and accus-
tomed to all the fatigues and duties attendant upon a time of
war. If this country were totally inaccessable, if there were
impassable barriers existing between the two countries—if the
channel could not be crossed, he would admit that their present
forces and means of defence were amply sufficient for the na-
tional protection. But it was not so; the channel could be
crossed in a few hours, and France had a navy in every
respect superior to our own ; and the channel, therefore,
became no longer a barrier. France had a steam-fleet ca-
pable of transporting 290,000 men. She had harbours Mac-
cessable to any Foreign Power for the safeguard and refuge
of this fleet, and around these inaccessable harbours she had
immense bodies of well disciplined men, regularly and always
stationed. With this state of things on the opposite shore of
the Channel, it was impossible that this country could remain
secure, unless Government established similar safeguards, and
formed a steam navy capable of repelling any foreign
intruder.--( Hear, hear.) He might be told that our present
amicable relations with France were of the most
amicable nature, and he trusted they would always remain so,
but it was impossible they could be sure, from month to month,
that this peace would continue to exist between two such great
countries, having had large interests in nearly every part of the
globe. Questions of the utmost delicacy and difficulty might
arise unexpectedly, and they would be quite unprepared for
averting evils which might result from them. When these
questions arose, moreover, they could not deal with France in
that spirit of independence which was consistent with the in-
terest and importance of this great country, if they were not in a
state to convince her that our shores were inaccessable to
a foreign invader. On a former occasion he pointed out the
defenceless state of our naval arsenals, when the Right Hon.
Baronet told him that measures were taking for removing that
deficiency, and he had no doubt it would he done effectually.
He dwelt also, at the same time, upon the necessity of harbours
of refuge, when the Right Hon. Baronet stated that the subject
was under consideration, and Government intended to take a
vote for the purpose of establishing some of them. The vote,
however, was too small • but he trusted this small beginning
would be vigorously followed up in the next
session.—( Hear, hear.) But it was not only har-
bours of refuge they wanted ; their steam navy was in a
deficient state. There were no disciplined bodies of men sta-
tioned near to the coast, as in France, and, in the event of an
invasion being attempted, it would take up a considerable time
in getting the steam fleet ready to be used in repelling the enemy
—he was much mistaken if it could be done under three months.
He contended that there was a constitutional mode of guarding
against this state of things, by resorting to the practice,
which, from motives of economy, had been abolished, namely, of
calling up the militia. A short timeago he asked the Right Hon.
Baronet then Secretary for the Colonies whether it was intended
to billet the militia, and the Right Hon. Baronet told him that
it was not. He had therefore felt it to be his duty, before the
House went into this Committee of Supply, to urge
upon the Government the great importance of re-
organising this portion of our military force. There
was no constitutional objection to this course; while
it would considerably increase the army at a comparatively small
expense. It was not enough for Government to have a majority
in that House—it was not enough from them to pass their mea-
sure and scramble through the session—it was not enough fur
them to introduce good measures for domestic legislation, and he
admitted that some of their measures this session had been ex-
cellent—no, it was not sufficient for a Government to do all
this. There was something else for them to do. They ought
to put the country in such a state of security that they should
be able to set at defiance all hostile invasions and hostile threats.

Sir ROBERT PEEL objected to the introduction of dis-
cussions like the present, involving, as they did, questions of so
much magnitude and importance to the country. He
differed from his Noble Friend in thinking that
the country ices in a defeiceless state, and he
could assure the House that the Noble Lord considerably
underrated the forces of the country. Should it unfortunately
happen that the coasts should be threatened with hostilities, he
was sure there was sufficient loyalty existing amongst the
people that would enable her Majesty to maintain the ancient
valour of the country; but there was no likelihood of such an
event coming to pass, for he was convinced a feeling per-
vaded the inhabitants of Franca that their prosperity de-
pended upon their commercial connexion with this country.
He was really surprised that the Noble Lord should entertain
such excessive apprehension of the ability of the Government
to provide for the defence of the country. He (Sir R. Peel)
could see no well grounded reason for such apprehension.—
( Hear, hear.) He thought that if any necessity arose
for this country to enter into hostilities with any
other nation, that at no former period of her
history would she be found better prepared to do
so than at the present—( Hear, hear)—and while he
admitted that the suggestions of the Noble Lord were
entitled to very considerable weight, he should still be sorry to
see this nation striving with any other as to which should sup-
port the largest military establishment.—( Hear, hear.) But
had they neglected the proper measures for the de-
fence of the country ? Were they less able now,
than in years past, to maintain the honour of the
country ? New improvements had taken place; steam navi.
gation had been introduced into naval warfare ; and had they
neglected any of these advantages ?—( Hear, hear.) The votes
bad been increased to 1,100,000/. for the army and navy, for
the purpose of putting them into a more efficient state, but this
had been done without any intention of departing from the
established principle, namely, to keep a sufficiently large force
under arms, without, however, entering into competition in
point of numbers with the standing armies of other countries.
Hear, hear.) He could assure the Noble Lord that this
country would not be satisfied with a standing army in Britain
of 100,000 or 120,000 men, and, therefore, though he ad-
mitted the limited number of the standing army
at present, he could not on the part of her Ma-
jesty's Government entertain the thought of increasing
it in any considerable degree. The Noble Lord had
not taken into consideaation that there were in this
country 50,000 able-bodied pensioners ; and this force surely
obviated any necessity for the measure so strongly recommended
by the Noble Lord, namely, the organization of the local militia.
They constituted a great and efficient body of men, on whom
the Government could place every dependence in the event of
any declared hostilities. H thought, therefore, that the ap-
prehensions of the Noble Lord might by allayed, and he could
assure him also, that the Government and the Parliament of this
country would undertake that its defences were properly
attended to.—( Hear, hear.) He concurred in the opinion
advanced by the Noble Lord that every precaution should be
taken against hostile aggression, but the Government must
also attend to the commercial claims of the country in the re-
mission of taxes—at the same time that they did not overlook
the necessary support of its military establishment. That they
had not overlooked that department of the public service was
evidenced in the increase to the land forces and in the improve-
ments which had been and would be further effected in the
harbours of refuge. He would again assure the Noble Lord
and the House that the Government was fully alive to the
importance of a sufficient land force, and with re-
spect to the Ordnance and the Navy as well as
the local constabulary of the country, they would
neglect no opportunity of placing them in the most effi-
cient condition. The Right Hon. Baronet was most imper-
fectly understood throughout, and at times was perfectly in-
audible.
Lord PALMERSTONE said that he had not stated that
the naval and military resources of the country were in a less
efficient condition than at any former period. All he con-
tended for, and he did it on three or four grounds, was, that
such had been the improvement in steam navigation, that troops
might be transported from one part of the empire to another
with the utmost facility, and the economy of the military
department of the country was so much improved from what
they had been in times past. He had no intention of impeach-
ing the energy which the Government had shown in moments
of danger, but he wished to prove that the previous organisa-
tion was defective, and that it ought, therefore, to be amended.
After a few words from Sir ROBERT PEEL,
Sir C. NAPIER said that they had at present at sea eight
sail of the line ; but they, in point of seamen, were two rates
below their
• proper weight.—(Hear, hear.) It was only on
the other day that the Gallant Admiral opposite found it ne-
cessary to increase the number of men in those ships, and he
could not have adopted a wiser measure. The Secre-
tary at War had stated, theother night, that no difficulty
willing has met in finding persons to enlist into the army or
into the Ordnance, but he could assure the House that the
greatest difficulty was found in inducing sailors to enter the
navy. The Rig
• ht Hon. Baronet had also spoken of the stare of
their steam naval force. He could tell the Right Honourable
Baronet that in this respect they were inferior to the
neighbours on the continent, who built their steam-vessels for
an increased number of men and weight of metal, while they
(the British) consulted only the rate of speed in their
naval architecture.—( Hears hear. ) He (Sir Charles
Napier) was glad to hear that there were 50,t 00 efficient
pensions—men able to bear arms in the country. He was glad
to hear this, because they, with a little training, and the
30,000 of a standing army in England and Ireland, constituted
a sufficient dafence against foreign invasion.—( Hear, hear.)
The statement of the Noble Lord had taken a great weight off
his mind.—(Laughter. )
MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
Messengers from the Lords brought up several Bills.
SUPPLY.

The House then went into a Committee of Supply.
On the motion that 80,3001. be voted to defray the superan-
nuation of persons formerly employed in the civil departments
of the Government,
Mr. HUME advocated the improvement of the natural har-
bours of the country that they might offer a better defence than
hitherto in the time of war. Although he was a man
of peace and not of war, one hundred and fifty thousand
ships annually entered and left our ports—a number perfectly
astonishing when the smallness of the island was taken into
account—of which there was no proper protection in the na-
tural harbours of the country. lie hoped that the Government