The Sun.
London, England, 1811-03-20 00:00:00

d fpf3lB. He was proceeding to thaw that
the present was not thtl precise time for the ap-
pounnient or. the Committee, when 114011 inter-
rupted by
SrP,AKER,, who observed, that the question
whether an Hon. Member t,hould of should Not
have leave to withdraw a motion,, watt not debate.
ahlr.t. If any single Member dissented, leave could
not be granted., lite Speaker then put the rides-
tion, and, no dipetning voice being heard, declared
that, khe Hon. Baronet 113 d leave to withdraw hip'
motion.

• The C.4l4xcat..ott of the EXCIII4LIER observed,
that he certainly meant to express his dissent if the
leave w.is to be granted oh the understanding wish-
ed for .by the Hon. Baronet.
The SPVAKER replied, that the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman ought to haveroarketd Ins eissetit by an au•
dtble negative.
Sir .1. Na.ZPoit.r's otiginal motion being there-
fbre withdrawn, he proceeded immediately to

"That the several Accounts and srime papers,
presented to the Howie dining this Session of Par •`
relative to , the public income and expen..
diture of Ireland, be riderred to the consideration
of a Selett Committee ; and, that the Cornmitiee
be instructed to examine into the same, and to'report
their opinion to the. House."
Mr. Secretary Itnisit thought the proceeding of
time gon. Baronet one of the most extraordinary he
had eve witurised its Partiarnent. His Right Hon.
friend (Mr. Foster). had declared, that it Una Hon.
Dormer would tt itodraw his resolutionS, be-would
propose the appointment of a Committee. Upon
this toe Hoti BarOnet, into whose mind the Wet of
referring the Nub jeci to the consideration ofd Com.
rnittee had ',ever before entered, withdrew his :es°.
lutp,(l,, and iihmecti;:tiei) inowt.d tor the appointment •
nfa puincuitie taking toe ousinebs out of the
iligitt Hon. Fl lend.
Mr. MA r deprecated intiodtietion of any patty
trick into the disscussions on a subject of such viral
invirtAnce.
Lime Ciii.NCELLOR of the EXCHCaLTER agreed that
these party , tricks were no! very crednable.
though be bowed to the decision of the Chair, he
Certainly cooccivcd that before the question was put
tin the leave to de granted to tile Uon. Baronet to
withdraw hit he had expressed, as clearly
as lie could cxpres6 tt, 164 dissent front that leave, it
required oti the undersianding that the Honourable
Baronet was to be allowed IMlTtetilately to move the
appointment of es Committee, although on the ques.
trots being put he had not said "so" 'so ;Eton as he
ought. By this erior, however, he (lid .nut conserve
himself bound to accede to the motiouel she Hon.
B,,tinei. Being of opinion that the absence of so
mn'my Irish MituLers rendered it inexpedient to ap-
point the Committee at present, he should give his
negative to the motion.
Mr. SHAW supported the Motion.
Mr. FOSTen tint it to the House whether it had
ever beetithe usage to Like out of the hands of Go-
,icroment any measure of Oa nature, which they
had deol4ed their hoc:union of bringing forward. He
moved the pitViOUS question.
Atittr, some further discussion, 'in which Mr.
BAtilltes, Sir 4. t, Loud ca,tiereagb, and Mr.
uL,tcr the House divided,

'for flit; prvvioi.l3 clue4tiott
Against It

7.~

x4;pinat Sir 1. Ni:t;port.'s Motion 21
TOL I)I4.INTEP...st l'E.TlllObl.

Mr. Tll,. Mattils rose, pursuant to a. not ice which
he h:ti ghats a levy days °elute. He reminded them
lic had then stanA .1 .0 ae his intention to move for
leave to ;)ring in 3 Bill to explain and amend an Act
pas,eit the 3,9111 01 his present:Majesty, which -at
present was telt very heavily by Printer.,,, Publishers,
and others 44)116e:00 with It the Press of tslig country.
He hoped the motion 'he intended to make wooid
meet with no fprootion, when his niutives were
.known, and intentiotts fully understood by thi.
Tiotie, 'rite Att in rihestion was passed a pe-
riod' when certain societies were in exigence. vino
Which it'ivas th Atght necessary to. guard, by pre.
venting their privately thssetninating Seditious writ-
ings. The Act appeared to have passed io a too,
meta of hurry, as it went to punish not, merely 410
'guilty, but all cotmeeted 'With the trade of printing,
All persons acting as Printers, am, were
obliged by this Act to give not only their names
and residente, but she minute't. pirticulars relative
to the place of their abode. A distinct penalty was
Incurred by every single. hand-bill or pamphlet in
which the most instgOficant word relating thereto
was omitted. However unintentional such omi,-
sion Might be proved io he, no discretion was girt i.)
to the Magistrates tea:Weide according to the per. u-
liar merits of the ease, but they were direc.ed to
convict the Printer, and cast ;him in the penalty of
.gol, for every hand-bill or pamphlet so published;
and those parties, Who in any case: 'Might :think
themselves aggrieved by Such decisions,. were not
enabled to make an appeal fromi them at the Quar-
ter Sessions. "Phis, he thought, was felt to be The
cause of evils which bad not been anticipated by the
House, at the time of the passing of the Act, He
did not mean to move that it should be repealed
altogether and he 'should ground the motion he
iatencled in, submit to the house for explaining and
astien,iing iho said Act,: on 3 statement of certain
inster,e,o3, lirels had come to his knowitqlge,
which aiitoTuttwtt persons had suffered great ;newt-
. I/truces, through the provisioliS of the Act being site,
as.he had desciihed. The first case he should toen-
lion was tirit cif in respectipig whom io-
formation had been given, which subjectc-d him to
derabita amuun!iog to more than the enormous
sum at 100,0001. The liondittable Genilethan
here read a passage from the .eliidence which had
be,,,,iiver, in order to whew the House wilt what
views such informations Were preferred, and also
w Ili them see hew some persons had been en-
fraPped into a siolation,,of the law, From this-it
5401,eated ihat certain pertiOns,:itiloWing there love
iwthAr titlinbetS: of an edition of the .vorlta of
Cteero, CornMOnly known by the name of title
Elsineui .6dition," without tale pages, went
about tcidifierent printers to get title-pages printed,

~under the pretense of wantleg them to duke ',the
work complete. It was gene impeasib:e to' thiek
that to these title--pages the address of the primer
would be allowed to be affixed. One printer,
~howe-
ver, more alive thritt others to the provisi.sot ot
I the had
tso, put his wine and place of tootle on
the titles-;rages he h rd thr,s been employo to print.
This would not do, as it W.ts it.ll3y such
pages were worse th".lllUSedesS, as I hey at once welt
to prove the work was nut what it purported to
the Elsineur edition." The othets who Wereap-:
plied to in this manner, did nut eel with the same
precaution, and in consequence penaliete'amount-
ing to mere than ioo,troble west incurred. The
witness examined a to the fad, had, after stating
the circumstances of the aase,- distinctly admitted,
that he had got them prtifted to the very purpose
of giVinginformation of the law having been vio-
lated. What was the consequence of alt this ?
• rite Magistrate, uotiheing empowered by the Act
to exercise his own discretion to the case, and the
party not being able to eppeal at the Quarter Ses-
sions, the former, to protect the individual, had littn'.
!eel/ Wen obliged to violare the law. Now alter
ibis, he Wantd ask if some altelation ought not to
be made, and it such was the situation in which a
Attgistrate ought to be placed ? Another person,
ho had• been anxious to conform to the provisioos
of the Mt of Parliament, had incurred a penalty by •
the onliasion of 3 single-word. Proposals hadireeti
issued respeding the trade-lion of some new• mdi-'
tary work. The person employed on this occasion
had put his name, and place, of abode, " Paternoi-
ter-row," but he had inadvertently ornAted the
word " London." Shortly after, as the Ace re
quired the-hatne of the town as well as -the
.street,
the printer having *sawed from his press a thou-
sand copies of the article in question, was cal Fed Up
to Goildnall,to shew cause wey he .sereal It t pay
the sum of 2.0,0001. tor penalties
.so
ins:urrrd
These fads, he really thought, Were almost enetreh
to make it telt by every otte,Ahat some alteration of
the Ad was necessary. It was true it Might be
said the evils be complaieed of had beeti'suboinent-
ly counteraded, in some degree, by an Act passed
to indemnity persons sufleting unete the operation
of this law; but-wae this a system to be praised,
which tailed` tor indemnity for those who had vita-
hated the law. Was it not Leiter to amend the
AO than thus to come torward from time t 9 flute
with a Bind IndeMnity ? He would now
.sterte the
case of an individual. who had been cotkicted of
violating this law and cast in it' !wild its atootto 11 S
to twenty thousand pounds, whose conduct had
bee as little objeotionahle as either of those he had
',already mentioned e-s-Soineaddresses had beenpub-
. lished at•Southamploo by the bakers of that place
to the people of the toe 41. The Magistrates there,
as in London, regulate the price
.ot bread, or,
in-
speoiing the proper returns, &c. They .bad done so
on one occasion; whets the bakers finding that, in
consequence of their decision,_ they must • lose on
each. sack of flour the sum of is. 3d. thought, prig
per ptib,icly to state the case, and submitted the .
• hardships of which they complained- to the consi-
der-dinar) of the town, A person of the name of,
Cunningham, who is a printer, was then absent
from Southampton, having vets to Portsmouth ;
one thoesand ot these addresses were watolnaim.
mediatelyi as it was of the highest importance to the
bakers- that their Coe should be made public as Soon
au possible. They were accordingly pinned off,atal
inlornsat,oll was inlIDEllllle, ly. ?given, that the prok,
stuns 'lt the i were tat woe /11140.431 e at:cldeliPtlY
violated ; and in cons' tidence the. printer, thOugh
abseot as the.time, was conriOed, ,and l';11$t et)40001.
in penalties. , The Magistrate had, no power, of dis.
creetoti to rtiodify the scntence, and all he could do
was to premiss; to write to the Secretary ot State tor
the Home Department; which, heundetstoOds had •
since been done, and the printer relieved. Ie such
a ca 4, however, though the individual, might ne-
ver be called upon by Goset meet fur the peualty
thus incurred, the evil did not appear to be doite
away. It was to be remembered, that by the pre.
visions of the Act! the informer was intide,l toea
moiety of the penalties recovered, and 'thou'gh the'
man. Might never be called up= 'for what he bad
been sentenced to pay to the Xing, he questioned
it the informer could not coMmetice ail action for
his moie.y, and, in sock, a case, the unfortunate
individual might he dociMed to rot in, gaol the re.
ternoder, of lass days. could state flay other
canes in which persons might be cast in heavy Pe-
naltiee, vk here no such thing as the Act was intend•
ed to guard againat.Coold be proved. He had seen
papers relating to, hospital vacaticiee, containing a
list of the Directora, &c, Articles relating to par-
nes ip that flonse-fpapers where the name was
printed oa one side, when according to the previ-
sions of the Act it alieuld he printed on the four;
and others in Which omissions appeared of the most
trilling nature, which subjeded those connected
with the press to severe penalties. He hoped the
Home would feel the•- propriety of that which he
suggested, and without going at all ihto the,,original
Act, give the .Magistiates a discretionary power, or
the'parties who felt aggrieved a right to appeal at, the
Quarter Sessions. -•It was not his intention to gO
beyond these two points, but in one instance. The
Prdprieters, Printers, and Pehlishers of no wapatteia
were at present on a better footing thaa the Printers
of hand-bilis and pamphlets, as the: Whole of 'their
impression made but one (silence. If a liba'were
printed to-morrow, in any newepaper, and a Oleo-
s:aid numbers of it Were circulated, the whole
would constitute but one offence. He did not see
why they should have this advantage over the Prin-
ters of pamphlets. and hand bills, arid he should
therefore propose some arrangement for placing
these last-mentioned on the same footing in thane-
street as, the former.' He concluded by' Moving far
leave to Whig in a Bill to explain and ametetpart of
the :ssy h of his present Majesty. •
Lord .eot.ics•roNts seconded the motion,'

'Plitt. Cll ANCELLOIt Of the EXCHEatIII.II4
!)01 opptkit lite MOti01), but he thought it tallier hind
that the Legisl atm should be cotup!aineil of dier
inakitig eert.ini arrangements for the regulation ut
any trade, the inadverteneies of'indiviiinalswere
punished; when the .40, like that aliudediu, was
perteatly easy to be underinuod„