The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-20 00:00:00

TEE SUN, LONDO/st FRIDAY MORNINCP,I,
.I.N.E; 20, 1845.

torh _............................,....-...........
tipite Con lition of tl-lose persons who had em'.arked a lei-ee
Ititieh;„Derhtn' for personal purpeses, but eto .ainly Al'
pot : view to the greatness of the cosier, y. He wee...
bed act), into a detail of the ins, ui bances whir i •
pat he " place, or of those which were appreheto•st
keettow°old say that it was incumbent upon the Gever
foh,4 Jake steps for reconciling all (leafleting interests, an..
, re.aelng th, colony upon a sound and secure founda, ion. A
tit,r4l, son of the system of colonisation pursued by other na-
Illtof I:sin favour of the English system. What was th i re•
oftie e French system in Algeria but to provoke the hatred
ha tenatives? So much so as to render it unsafe for a French-
ft.4,2!alk a mile from the capital of the province 'without a
Itkrjr.--(Hear, hear.) He could not vote with his Hon.
thiterraed Friend on this occasion—( Hear, hear)—but he
call span her Majesty's Government to state, not that
6...._0e1d condemn the past, bat that they would modify and
ire the future.
g
1,4111,,,,_• "EIL said that, although the papers were exceedingly
44143, as to the controversy which had arisen be wern s he
Ittilof"-441 to whom the Governmenr had eetrusted the co.-
NluTcolonial empire, it was evident that there were ,onie
14,,,,,._141 nine months after th' treaty of Waterier there was
tealZgeraent eati-r,d tut:' which hail tievi-r beet, fulfill d. ~
eo, td been raised as to the meeeing so th , r At ', 0"
lka„ gll, but no ques i-n Liao teen rated vyth res ,set to tti
4, a
ii
4 at was entered into _.et • ten the Uovei .i.erit a, . the
hayeelland Comaa•v 1- les-in, Tsiere cool ' b , no tesetre-
111e the fluter.' fie dui s,o: he'i.ve, . 0, eil iie too
this, 4:the Hon. Gauleman ii,i,osi e sia..ae-te • t`i ,t 3.iy ‘;‘, -
4141 e Could be r.o•ed ; .i.othaiis he allod d to tilt' I,t(tl 01
Lalt !Inky's having sigiefied s me (lout). as to the m '1 • •
‘ laZ that a.rreerneet. But t•,1.5 lie knew th is
4thei-* Mr. Som.ss, one of the mess impute aot. ....nib,
tits , e's Zealand Company, cil!ed 'aeon Ilia Nob Fr d ie.i ei
takeeltalanation .o that r•greerniset, and his Ni le Fee-is
.411 "'he, for L. nil in adopted toe exieaeati.-ii Alen h i•
Btnagi, vt'n by the Company, and he was not aware that L.ire
tiveil.-Y*;,",r intimated that a cliff t'ent expi ,nit too e-odi b•
Illettio,d'iQ Sense and plain ju:itice put to comma° sense thi
a'ilril ,--flad that. aareement ever bees fultided? Had O'''
qll)cil'er been executed ? The Com:it:or iaso eiit. I .;'..urn
les '"''L They tail the found trios; of a ereat essl snt •
aaCsPeat vast sums in the construcsion of puhhe works.
Meier had they received in return? The tpieseiri de.
thtst„.°,3ll a few facts. It was a great arid proono nt twee
tkied7 to high relief in this case, that an agreement
Ne' and an outlay was made by the New Zealaini
,Nhy Y, and nothing was received in return. 'That
140 Was certain, it was acknowledged by the Govern-
gee and nothing was given in return.—( Hear, hear.)
°lte Was a great 6 fact, which no earthly intrepidity
stn, tlgatioa could controvert, which no sophistry could get
k.4tat
Ceti New
Noble Friend sent instructions to the Govern.
cetieew Zealand to carry that agreement into effect.
h not conceive a circumstance stronger than that
Na, ef,e had mentioned—an original agreement, deliberately
Na `,,,e, the treaty of Watonga, riot ratified by the Govern-
Se i rlis Noble Friend went out of office, and Lord Stanley
4114 tts and, to his ( Mr. Sheil's) great surprise, the Noble
Nlettate at once into conflict with the New Zealand Corn-
tri They called upon him to fulfil the contract—they en-
ttthe h.iro---they expostulated—they remonstrated in vain.
sty time of the unhappy altercation that arose between the
Teitteut and the Company, his Hon. Friend the Member
Nl,Xolouth, finding that all chance of justice at the Co.
0, teile was at an end, applied to the House of Commons.
0 tak. the House of Commons and the country mark what
Ok in Place. The Committee which his Hon. Friend
0 teit! was not resisted ; they (the Government) invited
bla L._ The Government formed the Committee. That
often mentioned, but the fact was so important.
tope,itnPared with the result, that reiterat,on was riot hi-
ate. How was the Committee constituted? Treek i
kMtt,,srtnent appointed five Whigs, and ten—what should he
la tkr'aUghter. ) Ten of their habitual supporters. That
constitution of the Committee—five Whigs and ten
I.' 11• t'res• And among these Conservatives was placed
`40411,;. Gentleman the Under-Secretary of the Colonies.
11141thee'rieln Was placed a Gentleman whom he saw opposite.
L pre; he believed, the Secretary of the Treasury, but who
N. Atcl in the House, not out of the House, his frialifiea-
`x
klettati
nother Member was Lord Jocelyn, since made the
AN. of the Board of Control, and another was Lord
s._ gerton. He thought that it would be admitted that
iliel7ittee more favourable to Lord Stanley could hardly
Niolti The Committee met, the case was thrauahly in-
. Itesetio, all the documents were laid before them, all the
ttataets" respecting the treaty of Watonga, the different
tit whole mass o f aers, swollen to a mighty
er.'lee, underhe which the tables of the Hou.:e signed.
(14111t7ntined their papers, which showed the nature of their
• Na , 4nd vast of milli on which a
yarit had nevertracts left a vestiges of.
Afteracres, a most laborious
gaud surely he was justified in saying a most impartial
tlittir: tinri----t 0 what conclusion did they arrive—wi.h a large
,C. II • To the conclusion to which his Host. F. iend invited
once to come. They reputed against the
its of
hear.) That was an tiler thing on which
-s,q. off'
Committee
the case depended, and on which he awed sic.
Nit 'of' Committee appa.nted by the Goverdm tot, a A a
ki,,
iYi ef ten, found a series of resolutions isiculpating the
1,,411,1.-office. That was a tact. But there was mine to be
.I'll4,,tl'd to the attention of she Hou e Ana tie: country, whos.
l%4:t,thit subject weis of more impo•t nes. thtei a sy rie-
ettlew?teh the House m.osit arrive. Lost Sttniey, in hi-
,,, et aries on the re lust, east that t'se C 111 eT3l.t.-4. 1•V2,, !Mt
c_,ll 4hUS. He sell that the resin wire were car. ied by tee -
,tjl."ties. \Viten he Cllr. Shell) saw the statement
look 4, 4••°l'd Stanley, he ana•ysed the maj r ty and iniaori y,
46. , h
oedt to the division of the Commete.e. whi la i iek pi see
sti.toei found that in the resolutiens most strongly -osidemo-
-1,74,
07 ssjaidee, and tie. whole 'if t'sie policy nein whet tha
P.talled New Zealand ware caiidueed he to in i Cult. in wha'
‘44trad tha narrow majority, there voted against him 11•5 Hon
v al, e Member for Pontefract, an habitual supporter, an
Ltla nand not only an useful, but an ornamental—supprote,
hrvernment. He found that an honourable a most
: Id y_ished r: i
-entaeman, elected by the Governmont o moya
kt a
e, rs,s at the commencement of the session—he me ins.
I, `4llarteris—he found that he also weed sgaintt Lord
ttAk_ He found th‘t Lord Jocelyn, an Irtshman, who, he
Nes
_on this investigation, might hive remembered that
:te,Zlailey was once the Secretary for Ireland—( Laughter )
~ i. 5114 that he, whom they had elected as the Secretary
felaaNtßoard of Control, voted against Lord Stanley.
D-e7!%..11 last in enumeration, yet the first in account, he
WC'ttoelLord F. Egerton, a man of great rank, of the highest
ri,:th this country, of great talent, and of inestimable
ke•ied 1;a lean of whose services the country had been de-
414t'i,t1°1se's which all of them had concurred in lamenting,
th net-"at he voted against Lord Stanley. Nay more, he
e
opeler -'„,tent with voting against him—he found that he was
i„....4.-4,141 who moved 'as an amendment clauses strongly
4', aft ,-"k_'''rY of Lord Stanley. If the House was not aware
4.ltta,-"eol mark the words in page 20. What words could
tke'm Pi..,„!gnificant ? An amendment was proposed by
ti,Jteve,.:cla Egerton, that these words be added—"
.Th. at
"W rumens of Lord Stanley was productive of very.inju•
PLesanle,!inences." That was the whole case. The entire of
tZtin't'kunls of his Honourable Friend might have been com. -
'll,oeftkrse expressions, and that resolution thus denunc.-
0.4rtp,7 Government, moved by way of an amendment. So
of
the conviction of the Noble and virtuous Lord of the
eh_ ' the treaty, that not satisfied with the justice of the re-
: moved by the friends of the Company, he moved the
elite ant to which he had just called their atten•ion. He
Zalad`"ttld rely on facts, and he would ask them when they
11,1 hint the honour to advert to his observations. not to
tl?d Leln_ (Mr. Sheil) but Lord F. Egerton, when they would
4 pkeerd Stanley. After the Committee had reported what
4Lither' One would imagine that when Lord Stanley had
sksithePert of the Committee he would have retraced his
tiO h would have acknowledged his mistakes—his policy
hive been altered, or, assortl events, that he
ttliceeeave entered into some of amicable corn-
araZil with the Company. What course did he take?
si4tiat,Tir a dispatch, and he seemed to have thought that as
rlll4l4eht 4 against Lord Stanley, he ought to make a cross
Lord Stanley against the New Zealand Company. His
aisSe,iteritained a series of animadversions on the Company.
fe,4l.je.was drawn up, in which it was stated as colonial law,
hZ1147,,t0 a principle laid down by Sir Ge urge Gipps, a
111,1etartteiple, namely, that barbarous tribes had no yessed
elilll arl land. Lord Stanley's course was to dispute
L sea and expatiate on the merits of the New Zeaiand
147tiel; Let laim call the attention of the House to the si ate-
thateunonsness made by his Hon. Friend (Mr. C. Bulle)
kit le isi!rlY speech—( Hear, hear)—that the mast powerfulh
liNtiset evilealatl-;eti foundederhis I.nithleabointattebse grtoounddetitaht. he
tv,,_ 3', h .) The report had no effect nn Lord
tliktm foe„,ut a great effect on the public mind. When
et the 7tehat no grant was to be mada to the omains
0;1e %inn. rnment would not act a.-cording to th decisiod
Iket.eapittnittee of the.r own nomination, the mereh nos a •
q Itte4 alists of London assernoled to tether and pre•ented
Iti:rieren;eto which he begged to call the at.enti sit of the
alio lie and to the most able eseose.ion of the fact: by
s,,ts With clew] the.
Member for Sunderland East nectar'.
tit ie, , la usual comprehensivenes- He 41S ,..etited
14steed 'lalts that were 0 .mmitted. He ( •alr. Shea ) did not
tit,r ti.:l,Y that nothing had been s.airs comparaele won The
lailtswof ',3 Was set serth in the petition of the oier shauts and
1/itla tne City of Londou. 1 hat petition was presented
tli,t Lor.,;4ght the 18th of March. 1815. tie bath woo , he
Ott,," or ti.e Treasury anted with oetitions from tee iner-
Ili':' ttitill'e had seen him stand up in the House of Comm -:ss ..
Nirape.,tuLe t-rnphaos peculiar to himself, exaatine n sit
ll4' if thince of the support derived from teas great busy.
iskkniiir,"e Were his remarks, surely it would be felt that.
tt 4Ater-newhich he was now about to advance, not only eon-
et "et Yr net denunciatory of their c nduet, was deserving.
14.4, of the„ attention of the Government. at all
,a4;' that the attention of the pubic. The ,w;;,,,,
.01.„,- tlis 'l,e differences and dispute 4 in the colori:e.. h nl p, i
eh et!
seatansfaction and complaiet. which brought the new-
tli.t‘t„ tisk tiettlent, and the Company almost to the verge of de-
2Qbet This petitioners, in common with the whole comaiu-
ti` ri for a Select Committee to inquire into the state of
NZ, aeda.tt,ds and the proceedings of the New Zealand Corn-
tisk ZaeiLtated that, as it appeared from the report that the.
talL'Peet'qd Company had been exposed to hardships and ill-
4'd ter' the result of the policy of the Colonial-office, they
tiitlreiprlsrnitipt interference and redress. By whom was that
tt,;;Colo:Sentee ? Not by a Whig—not b an
partisans;anago.nist of
, i'atea I'4l-office—not by a factious
1 titek4Aattitio"eY ‘.)..o_hn. Mast erman. ( Cries of " Hear, hear.")
-it, the was signed by two of the HMI. Members for
it app„ one a Whig and the other a Tory, and yet it was
,s‘a t'blelrrit that that petition expressed the sentiments of
~ no?overi, end near him. Let him ask Hon. Members of
%it ad ai ruent opposite had they read the names of those
'ate. the 4,gbed that petition ?—( Hear. ) He found attached
N'it '!furiernea of merchants of the first city in the empire ;
t,ttti thzearePled opulence, and those whose signatures stood
1 ket ranks of the commercial men of this, the
I tate? Metropolis of the commercial world.—( Hear,
1 'lye to „..‘t would be the answer of the Govern-
' 'Ni,. `uis petition, or rather what had been the
(liea
' Sert a of --r.) Had it not been in effect to blight the
. tlaei y of the British empire in that region, and to place the
414,4--iti the emigrants in that country under a perpetual
*4P ilkeo, hear.) The colony had been said to have been
.SPti°Ltighrisui)ts the progress of trade and agriculture stopped,
• 14 he to, '34 been arrested in its operation through the field
. 1444 "a the
iii.la.. tad Wood, and the emigrant had, in fact, become
I tleZ hut '‘,lll the recklesss spirit of ferocity to which in-
sal,. hearsriaen him, blood had been profusely shed.—
' tii‘lts,:! %et) The Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland
1 &Attlee I.o_ the blood of Englishmen was crying aloud.for
1 Nah, ene4tr What they had suffered since. their emigration
"kat-gered 1, for that a feeling of just indignation had been
kt 44 tt the disasters by which their emigration had
ave (led
ktit.,,t,itaell- t:if ah;colear, hear. ) Let, then, those who did not
their s , system of policy. being any longer pursued,
iktiir'llia votelenetic authoritativeness and factious lsophistl-
-4, JA in favour of the motion of his Hon. Friend.
tp't tle;f4 falien'rGßAHAM said that, after the observations
„,talt,„.th es ~, 'rnai the Right Gentleman who had just
i'sPlie;.4 the "ell as those of the Hon. Member who had in-
' !Rai issitig h.sebject, he had risen merely for the purpose of
.shad
fall's entire concurrence in many of the observations
)ateC the eill from Hon. Members on the subject, at both
1 tille7a oo„„°use•—( Hear, hear.) He would assure Hon.
I,7eNb`ne ;Posits that he was far from attempting to under-
,sscirepr:rY great importance of this subject; for he felt
tbki(d_atitaZsed With the immeasurable value that the islands of
liN•s '"Prare"_Were of to this country, knowing, as he did, the
f 4eY of this country, and the advantages the har-
titteit4l:' N'w Zealand
toe° %settle afforded to that navy, as well as to
-‘44 graphic ree ; and he could also apprecia•e the value of
the L,...4 Position of those islands, which, he was aware,
'''Y to the traffic between this country and the

China f'eas, all which he was willing to admit were
aettters of great mount to the conmercial sate
-es:s of i.ais gralt commercial emiiire. a( Hear, hear. ) He
aats also e'nd to state that an additional reason he had
f canaurrinia its the obeiirvations of hi, Hen. Friend opposite
sac, , h,t hi. .t t: c, asitty, is slice t r the fart, that the increas-
ing papulaiioa of this country required a well-regulated sys-
tem of ccaonisation.—( Hear, hear. ) Having prefaced this
question with those observatioas, he now begged to assure the
House that he did not intend to foil') w the Hon. Member op-
posite (Mr. Buller) in all the details which he had laid before
the Howie, hut he feared he should be compelled to detain the
House while lie entered into a few of them. lie was ready to
admit, distinctly, that much of what had been stated last night,
in reference to the affairs of this island, were traceable to the
two causes mentioned—namely, the mode of emigration and
the abaence from the island of those who could have exercised
an efficient and effectual control.—( Hear, hear.) He had no
wish to weary the House by entering into a statement of the
manner in waich this colony had been governed under former
Administrations, he would rather now paaa over that, and
come at once to tha histo y of the transacinn, connected with
the mode of carrying out the treaty of Watonga. The Hon.
Bvanat then read a passage from the treaty, by which it ap-
peared that certain rights arid privileges were to ba pre-
served to the natives arid the ernierants reTeetivelv.
1- imght he permliie i to .tate tviat it apaeared to him that the
a.- a •liffi silty shah his Nail • Friend at the head of the
(7,ol,iiiia: had had to etieoisater„ since ha became toe servant of
ho G own ha I bet's ihe task .if tecanciling the treaty of
Vu'. n a. which h. :rani,{ a:atuna cs hinting. with the charter
,t Aar id a she New Zealand Co.nnany. also given by the advice
of h.' Nobla L,r 1. The diffiattlta• of remeiciling these two
eriaitgern tits was stated. he thought. very forcibly, and, as he
tianah.. very fairly, in a paper which had b en presented to the
aioa, caatainiag a diseus.iion w-ich had lat ,ly arisen between
aa Gavernmere and the New Zealand Comp iny. Th.. New
•-•!and C :mu iny Kail It is impossible to reconcile the
missaina v system with coloaization. The object of the
atiss:atiaries has beett to prevent colonisation, and to preserve
nai ion slits ot New Zealand." The House knew the

noeneed hy the Nets Zealand Company, with re-
f-. enee et the two documents—the treaty of Watonga, which
pewee.led on mitsto •ary Principles, and the agreement with the
New Zeataad Company which was founded on the pas' system,
eaeiely, the system ot. colonisation, as contradistinguished from
t' .e missierary system. That was upon two entemenist docu•
meets. He entirely coecurred with the view of the Nev Zea-
land Company with reference to the two engagements. The
Right Hon. Gent'eman who had just sat down had contended
that, consistently with the engagem 'nt into which the Crown
had entered with the New Zealand Company, it was not just to
call on that Company to prove their titles to land, to which they
were legitimately entitled, before a court of appeal, exercising
judicial authority in New Zealand. lie (Sir J. Graham) must
say that the view taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman in that
particular was entirely at variance with the recorded opinion of
both contracting parties. The Right Honourable Gentle-
man then read some very lengthy extracts from the
Trespondence which has taken place between the New
Zealand Company and the Government, and also with
the New Zealand Company's agent at New Zealand.
The Right Hon. Gentleman said that a misund •rstanding com-
menced immediately upon Lord Stanley's taking office. Now
the fact was that no such misunderstanding arose until 1842.
lie ( Sir J. Graham) was sorry that when his Hon. Friend the
Secretary for the Treasury addressed the House so few Mem-
bers were present.—( Hear, hear.) But those who had the
advantage of hearing him would concur with him (Sir James
Graham) that his lion. Friend had used arguments respecting
the treaty of Watonga, which were irresstible, and which he
(Sir .1. Graham) would not weaken by repeating. Up to the
year 18 2 no different s had arisen with respect to the nature
of the contract between the C impany and the Crown, namely,
that they should prove their title before Commissioners of
inquiry exercisieg judicial fund inns. In 1842 disputes arose
of a serious aspect, and it was the desire of his Noble Friend
the Secretary for the Colonies, if possible, to devise the means
of adjustment upon the disputed points. He first indicated
the mode of ailju-tment as early as January, 1843.
The instructions to Captain Fitzroy were given under a con-
tract with the Company, that he should be allowed to act
independent of that corporation. He did not wish to enter
folly into the whole conduct of the Governor there appointed,
nor all the subjects of disagreement between him and the
Company ; suffice it to say, that his recal was founded on
allegetions —subsequently preyed to be correct--that he had
disohey• d the instructions furnished him. There had been a
condition always reeegnieed by the Company, forming part of
the original engage •tent of 1840, arid subsequently con-
fireted by the Colonial Secretary who succeeded the Noble
Lord the Member for London, that the selection of land
should be made within certain specified limits ; and that the
Government should receive from time to time full and effi-
cielit information of the land divided there. But
since Captain Fitzroy had arrived no selection had been
esatie by their agent, and consequently no report had been re-
ds red by the Government a home. The 'ion. Member for
~.vreast4b under- Lyn•• had sail that great a lowanees were to
he male for Captain Fit zrov's errors, in consideration of the
difficult-jest which he had uninterr••pte ly encountered. In
that f.enriment he heartily concurred.—( ) It was true
that ~.,verai Its berletnee had de•racted from his
merit. The iseue of the in-• nen-rale vapor, and the subject of
eelbroidne the eetite a a ith nstives of who e dependence could
hel u• q a •tionablv decreased he confidence of
the Cov•rnmeet •n their effieer, And. while the rernissi in of
ell duns of emst ins we: espial), intlefens.hble ; at the same
ems would b' remeimb red that the dffiieultv of lev3ing
sit ims elEtetitlino over three thousand miles was a
y ex'resnely difficult to be rill- roefi— Near, hear)—
hut I.`toir ba n t rem:t.e , w,th.,ut ice -ppeal or remonstrance
te the Ho•n Government, was highly injudicious. Tue
Hen. Members for Lambeth (alts Hawes) and for Liskeard
troller) had nestle severe comments on the course pure
sued by the Colonial Department, and had suggested the pro..
eriety of entrusting; the entire management of their affairs to
the rte.“,•••••,,
- - - • • - • •

'tre ;3 lf f ,LFR dissented. What he had said was, that local
self-rewern,nsnt might be suceessfully attempted.
Si, OR ell A Nl—The Government had been charged,
also, with attending to home interests and home influences
Ilne. He would no' co nhat that proposition, but would ob-
serve that if the Highs Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) at the
heal of her 'Majesty's Government, casting aside the interests
ee Inrl.ooo New Zealanders, at the Antipodes, had virlded to
considerstie 5 of horns, interes's and influences, he would have
experienced inuch more ease, and much less opposition f, one
Members on either side of the House.—( Hear.) The Hon.
Member for Liskeard (Mr.- Buller) had quoted the advice of
the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton ( Lord Palmerston)
that they should no more suffer the nonsense of the cofonial office.
Now, without offence to the propounder of that suggestion, he
would say that, considering that the Noble Lord the Member
for London (Lord John Russell) was then at the head of that
department ; and, remembering the character of the then
Under-Secretary, nonsense was not likely to emanate from
that office.—( Cheers ) However, it was not to the past that
he would refer; that was infinitely of less importance than the
future.—(Loud cheers.) It was impossible to hear the speech
sf the Hon. Member far Coventry( Mr. Ellice) and not see that
the manly and vigorous sense of that speech—(Cheers)—
demanded an explicit reply from the Government.—(Cheers.)
He for one would answer as candidly as was consistent with his
duty. The first question propounded b the Hon. Member
was. whet, was the construct ion put by the Government on the
treaty of Watonga ? His answer was that her Majesty was enti.
tied to the entire sovereignty of that island. subject of Course to
certain igements—the prime engagement
being
he protected in the possession of
thatco n
thet i n g t
nativesncie e a
should
lo egguld
land and property ; add the right of land being vested
in the Crown, that they should enjoy all the rights
and privileges of British settlers. Such engagem..nts
should be religiously observed.—( Hear, hear) That brought
him to a corsideration of a point of sonic importance. The
words of the treaty were " in possession of the natives," in the
letters patent granted at the incorporation of the Company,
there was a marked differense, the expression then used was
"lands occupied or enjoyed," the concurrence of both words
" occupied" and " enjoyed " implied that some difference was
intended between them. By an Act of the local Government,
the sale of oecupied lands (by the natives) was prohibited, yet
pre-emotion nn the part of the Crown must have been conteni-
elated. They could sell something to the Crown, therefore it
must imply unoccupied land ; if so, it plainly recognised the
right of the native to sell such unoccupied land.
The Government. had been asked what they intended to do
with respeet to the land. The Government intended to do
shot which Captain Fitzroy bad been instructed to do, but
which he had omitted to perform. It was proposed, within a
limited time, to call upon all the natives and settlers to come
fore-ard, in order to poise their titles to the land arid register
their names, and all perties failing at the expiration of the
rime to register thee- mimes, the right of sovereignty
being secured under the treaty of Watonga,
tee unclaimed land; world, ,at ri ht, be tested in the Crown.
In se tett confosmi.y with the treaty et Watonga, the Crown
',eel els become p .ssesse'l of a large portion of :waste land in
'a;ew Zea and. Is had been aAce,l how does the Government
int •ipt t deal with the N..s Z .alerpt Company. l'ositiee
iestructems ill be given t d the Gevernor to put them into
..13,3511/11 of lands within the asagnel limits of which they
lash make e see of which they shall retain
,he p isseesion. lie had been asked. wh t are the inten-
reel. ,f the Government with respect to the duties on
ate Ze earl. Ne. eeesideriet the remission of the cestrens
eut lee was a toot .a ivised act. lie was quite ready to jus-
try 'hes; at,ino it made by his Hon. F, tend the Secretary of
ts Treasury. that ostlers on the subject had been given to the
qoeernur of New Zealand. which he had not senperly attended
in. He had then been aske I a question of more importance
ttsar, the reft, wrest were to be the institutions under which
New Zealand was to he governed. He would answer that it
was the »I the Government, and directions had been given
to the G everenr, that municipal institutions should be
nireid te the settlers under the New Zealand Company, and
it' aey lot Crier oteti uneris should be required, the Governor
was iiisiructed ,tut only to enlarge the powers of the municipal
institutions, but also to increase their number. It had been
stated, in strict ascordance with the principle of colonisation,
that concentration was not desirable. Dispersion was the
most prudent way of colonising large islands ; by dispersing thy
multitude, a better local government within the districts,
and a safer general government would be secured. It would be
said, however, that this was still an imperfect Government,
and that representation after all was desirable. He was not,
however, prepared to acquiesce in that proposition. A solemn
engagement had to be observed. The natives were entitled to
all the rights and privileges of British settlers. if the repre-
sentative form of government was to be adopted, the natives
must be admitted to a share in it. If they were admitted in
their present state of civilisation it would be premature, and if,
on the other hand, they were excluded altogether, it
would be inconsistent with justice, and would have
a tendency to increase discord, and promote a
spirit of dissatisfaction. At all events, he was satisfied suck a
system would not prove of the slightest utility under the cir-
cumstances in which the colony was at present situated.
Again, the Right Hon. Gentleman had asked what was to be
the law of succession to landed prof arty, and more especially
was primogeniture to be maintained, as the right of succession
in that country. He thought the Right Hon. Gentleman
would not have pressed that question upon the Govern-
ment. It was a general rule of law that British subjects,
in whatever quarter of the globe they might be, as they were
still under the dominatioa of the Crown, should carry with
them all the rights, privileges, and immunities of the
law and of the Constitution. This was the only expl British
anation
the Government could give ; and if any one asserted to the
contrary, it would be a violation of the general law. He had
endeavoured to give a most explicit answer to the Right Hon.
Gentleman, and he trusted he would be satisfied with it. With
respect to the errors that had been committed by the Governor
the Home Government had marked their sense of them in the
most pointed manner. The question had then turned to the
appointment of a successor. The Right Hon. Member for
Coventry thought that no appointment could be a judicious
appointment which was not sanctioned by some
gentlemen in
England. The Right Hon. Member for Somersetshire was
rather of opinion that his Noble Friend had been guilty of
some indiscretion, by not giving some specific and
written instructions to Captain Fitzroy.—(Hear, hear.)
The Noble Lord the Member for Sussex had said, do not
fetter the new Governor with positive instructions; tell him
the particulars in which his predecessors had failed—point out
to him what is right, but leave him entirely to act on his own
discretion. He (Sir James Graham) entirely concurred in
this. Captain Grey was the person that had been selected as
the new Governor. It would not be denied that Captain Grey
possessed great abilities. On a former occasion it had been stated
in a report to that House, that the course pursued by Capt. Grey
in his treatment of the aborigines was highly commendable,
and ought to be followed. The only objection of the Noble
Lord to the anointment was the inferiority of rack of the

new Governor. He (Sir J. Graham) could not see what
Captain G-ey'e rank in the army hail to do with his qualitica-
tions for the offense. lie reassessed truth, combined with expe •
rience and ability, and these were the pri-icipsl esseitti •is for
the station. He did not wish to detain the Haute at great
length, hut he should be unjust to his Noble Friend
Lord Stanley) if he did not state • what was his
strong impression oe the interests of the unprotected natives.
He did not admit that that was the end in view, but if it was
the end, then the motives which led to it could not be
impugned. He was sure his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley )
had acted from the most eeneroue and humane feeling;. Cer-
tainly the House had to consider whether the colonial govern-
ment, as administered by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord John
Russell), snd also as administered by his Noble Friend, had
been that which was calculated to serve the interests of the
colony and maintain the dignity of the mether country. It
would be for the Flouse to consider all these matters, as they
were justly entitled to do ; but in taking such a course they
ought to weigh well the difficulties by which the administration
of affairs in this colony had bsen surrounded, tine the evils that
would result from the adoption of such a course as that recom-
mended. They ought to take into their molt serious ten-
sideration whether it was just or politic to pass a vote of censure
on what had alseady been done, perhaps from a mistaken
policy, yet still. he helieved, from the best intentions.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he was called upon to
anldsess the House, as he wished to make some exp.aeiations of
what had taken place between the Colonial Deearnment and
the New Ze +land Company. He would first address himself
to the difficu'ties in which the colony had been placed, a;
between the chief advisers of the Crown, on the pa,nt of the
Legislature of this country, and the colony of New Zealand.
On a previous occasion, he had stated that the proper course to
pursue, with regard to New Zealand, was to treat with the
natives for the property of the colony. He was in hopes that
the course which he advised to be taken %voted, lea t to an
amicable settlement of the question. But the course taken by
the treaty about that time prevented that course to be
taken. The Honourable Gentleman the Under-Secretary
for the Colonies, as also the Right Honourable
Baronet the Secretes), for the Home Department,
hail stated that the principal difficulties which the present Go-
vernment experienced in the management of Now Zealand,
were principallyr the fruits of their pre7dece-sors. These state-
ments having been made, he (Lord John Russell) was obliged
to refer to them, and in doing so, he would have to ewer into
some matters of detail. He was there to perform the task im-
posed upon him. He had been highly complimented for the
course he had pursued by the Honourable Member for Coven-
try ( Mr. Ellice) who was an intimate friend, and also by the
Honourable Member for Newcastle-under-Line, with whom he
was not on terms of intimacy, and with whom he hail never
any peliticel alliance; but still, holding opinions different to
these Honourable Members, he felt bound to state the reasons
why he so differed. An Hon. Gentleman in the course of the
debate, said that gross blunders hail been made in the
engagements entered into with New Zealand; and another
Hon. Gentleman said it was difficult to reconcile what he
( Lord J. Russell) had done with the interests of the country.
Had he made such mistakes as had been alledged, he should
consider himself unfit to hold the high office he had held. But
he was obliged to state the facts of the case. The islands of
New Zealand were recognised as an independent State in 1539.
In that year Captain Hobson was sent out, with poeer to
treat with New Zealand as an independent territory, and, if
necessary, to take the country under the protection of the
Crown. Captain Hobson was successful in concluding the
Treaty of Watonga, by which New Zealand became a part of
the British dominions. The treaty was not a long one, yet
the Hon. Gentleman who had qu :ted it only read a part of it,
he had not reed it all. He would, therefore, read it to the
House. The Noble Lord then read the treaty, calling parti-
cular attention to a passage; to the effeet that her Majesty
guaranteed to the natives undisturbed possession in their
lands, estates, and fisheries, as I,ng as they wished
to retain possession of them ; and that the chiefs,
on the other hand, should give to the Crown the
right of pre-emption of such land as was not required
by them, at such prices as should be mutually agreed on.
The treaty was, therefore, made up of two parts—first, securing
to the natives the lands; and, secondly, reserving to her Ma-
jesty the right of pre-emption of such lands as the natives
were disposed to part with. An Hon. Gentleman had
claimed the enforcement of the treaty, but if so, let them have
the whole of it—not only that whit h relates to the interests of
the natives, but with regard to the rights of the Crown. With
regard to the first part of the treaty, he held that the inter-
pretation to he given tit it should be the same as that of stipu-
lations in which islands have been. ceded to this country in
times of war. It ought to be considered like treaties with
foreign countries, and interpreted in a manner consonant
with the common law of Europe, and in which
all civilised nations were agreed.--( Hear, hear. ) What
had been the case with regard to Canada, Trinidad, De-
merara, and other places? They did not say that the natives
of these places should have possession of all the lands that
might be in their country. In the treaty that was made after
the war of 1756, no such course was adopted with respect to
Cer.aila. No, they said that the property which the natives
held in their own righi, and which they were actually in pos-
session of, should be secured to them—that no one should dis-
turb them in the enjoyment of this—but with respect to the
waste lands, it was distinctly specified that teey should
be held as the land. of the Grown.—( Hear, hear.) It was
hardy necessary to go so far out of ,he way as Sir George
Gieps went with respect to the doctrioes which %vete main-
taineel by p ibltc writers on the subject. lie would not there-
fore quote Mr. Weeks or any other authority in reference to it.
Tee Honourable Gentleman the Secretary of State quoted
several iiaragrephs to show the sense he attached to that article
in the treaty with respect to the waste lands, and he also
quoted a passage from the instructions of Lord Normanby,
Nice appeased to coincide with his views, but he forgot to
state that there was another passage in the very same page of
a different tendency.—( Hear, hear.) One would have
thought that any Hon. Gentleman who wished to state
the-purport of these instructions fairly should not have omitted
that passage which distinctly stated " that with respeet to such
lands as were now aetniany occupied or enjoyed that the undis-
turbed enjoyment of them should be secured." A little further
on there was a passage to the same effect, " that no one should
i"terfere with or molest any occupier in the enjoyment of his
proper y." The Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of the
Treasun y alluded to Mr. Spain as a country attorney.
Mr. CARD WELL said that he did not mean to speak of
Mt. Spain or his profession in a manner disrespectful or dero-
gatory to that gentleman.
L md JOHN RUSSELL—What he was about to re-
mark was that if it was the character of an attorney
to make a point by a quirk or a quibble, the Hon. Gen-
tleman himself showed more of that character than the gen-
tleman referred to.—(Laughter.) Before, however, he came
to the further arguments of the Han. Gentleman, let him say
that in carrying out those instructions anything contrary to
time treaty of Watonga ought not to be construed against the
natives. The most fair, liberal, and just construction should
be put upon that treaty. With respect to those lands in the
possession of the natives, they should be left to the full enjoy-
ment of them ; but, on the other hand, to push the words of
the treaty to such an extraordinary length—to push them be-
yond the treaties of all the civilised nations in Europe—to put
such a construction on them with those ignorant savages—he
would neither call it fair or honourable, but fatal to the inte-
rests of this country, fatal to the interests of the colony, and
giving them up a prey to every adventurer who chose to settle
upon their shores.—( Loud cheers.) There were 100,000 in-
habitants in the island. Supposing the country to be 100,' 00
square miles in extent, this would be one person to the
square mile ; but on the middle island it was stated in one
of the !sailers that there were only 1,500 inhabitants. There
was not, however, a part of is but was claimed by some portion
of the native tribes. That was a most extravagant doctrine.
It was perfectly absurd.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped
that the House would not sanction it, and he hoped
that the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies
would not sanction it, as it would be not only injurious to the
country, but also the colony. Such being the statement of
the case, that the counts), would be governed by the letters
patent which he had read, and by the instructions to which he
referred, he had not the foresight to suppose that any dis-
putes were likely to arise with respect to the waste lands. He
th ,u sht that a liberal construction would be put on the treaty
of Watonga. He was not singular in this opinion, for Major
Bunbury, in one of his letters, had stated that all the waste
lands ought to be taken possession of, and settlers placed on
them immediately. Some time afterwards a question
arose with iespect to transactions in which the New
Zealand Comeany were involved, anti his acquaint-
ance with that Company first began under circum-
stances which were not of the most pleasant nature.
The view which he took of this Company, and in this he agreed
with Mr. Huskisson, was, that it was most essential for the
purpose of colonisation. He (Lord J. Russell) was of opinion
that a Company like this could do far more for the proper
management of emigrants than the Government. As soon as
he found that a quarrel hail been going on for some time be-
tween the Coloteel Depan tment and the New Zealand Com-
pany, and he endeavoured, through Mr. Soames, as soon as the
power of the Crown was declared to be paramount in that
colony, to effect same amicable arrangement, so that neither
the Government nor the Company might have any unfair ad-
vantage. or by which the people of New Zealand might be in•
juresl. It was said by the Right Honourable Gentleman
that the agreement was quite inconsistent with the
treaty of Watonga. Such, however, was not the opinion
of the Committee which sat last year on the affairs of New
'Zealand. In wilat manner was it inconsistent? He (Lord
John Russell) was stated to be of opinion that the agents had
purehesed large gni antitiett of land, which they were ready to
surrender to the Crown, whereas he (Lord John Russell) was
willing to admit them to terms similar to those granted no
other persons who were coupe led to surrender a certain
number of acres of lands to the Crown, in proportion to the ex-
pense they had ineurre t—that for every ss. expended they
should receive an acre of la..d. Rut there was not a word said
in th tt astreetnent as to the peculiar number of acres which
they had purchased or anything basing that agreement upon
tee number of acres which they had purchased. Hear. )
The Crown could have had no difficulty in carrying, out the
terms of that agreement to their full extent. 'Then the
question arose—what were they bound to under that agree-
ment? He was of opinion that the Company had a title to
land not exceeding the number of acres which had been
a lotted to them under the award, or that a quantity of
surplus land would be left, which they would have to surrender
to the Crown. He believed the Company had acted fairly in
this matter. But, supposing the case that it should be found
on investigation that their purchases of land were not goad, or,
supposing they were purchased from people who had no title to
dispose of them, the Crown had no right to make such grants.
But he owned that he did net think the Crown could have
fulfilled their agreement.—(Bear, hear.) But it was in eon-
siderationl of the expense of bringing out emigrants, and on
account of their being bound to surrender a certain portion of
land to the Crown, and of the expenses which would be thus
entailed upon them that that agreement was made.—( Hear.)
And the agreement was a prudent one. But that thee,:
was any want of consistency in that agreement with the treaty
of Watonga, seemed to him most extraordinary. The mis-
takes of the Company had been their mistakes—they had
fallen into the error into which they had fallen. But taking
all the peculiar circumstances into account, Government
was still bound to carry out that agreement—(Hear, hear)
—and he did not see while they held good faith with the
natives that they should break good faith with the New Zealand
Company. He was at a loss to know whether the concealed
correspondence which took place before Captain Fitzroy went
out was treating the Company fairly. All that the Govern-
ment were bound to do with respect to the land was, to make
compensation to the Company for the expenses they were put to.
Now, he thought the Government was bound either to put the
Company into possession of their land or to make them some
compensation.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that they had a
fair claim in point of compensation, and he did not think that
there was either anything in the treaty of Watonga or in the
agreement to relieve them from that obligation.—(Cheers.)
He might now state shortly what occurred to him was the
proper course to be pursued by the local Government. He
thought the local Government seemed to have included in it
some most earnest and most zealous individuals. They seemed
to have as far as possible consulted the interest of the abori-
gines, and the feeling was strongly shared by himself and by
Lord Normanby, that the aborigines had suffered dreadful ca-
lamities. He thought it would be found an impassibility to
be any time in the Colonial-office, there to read the miserable
condition of the few aborigines left in North America, without
being touched by a feeling of horror at the sufferings they had
undergone, and could not wonder that the local Government of
I New Zealand should have [seen Impressed with the same feel-
ing ; but while he gave them credit for this generous sensi-
bility, he could not conceal that they had erred most greatly in
pint of judgment. They did not calculate en the warlike
propensities of the savage race, which had been well shown

ea ozo--- ease—
-1 t d by
tiq
,an ineid,snt' - chief went
Captain Hoe 4) to the gouse.
Westminster I. ststohe
cemnment of another trine
into the mido u' . ,
tt time after leaving
-et! them, and, in a 5..0.
:watched—he )-- • • t these
he returned ;nd eats; Av.'''.
,t• •
enemy, and they
rsoirTss ,yes Captain . a a psrty of the
the Hen: end Gallant Member for
were eec.srneeti i;a tOne of war. of
Lord J. All he ( Lord John
Hon. and Gallant Friend's etatemen..
coerced
d'd not r!:• All
correctness his
,duals
hhisa, had
opinionext.er b
iy m
Russell) meant to thaw was that those indi-,
on the first
a letter of the Governor's in the papers' presentee te., that in
t
nated one another. He was well supported in -
of June. The Noble Lord read the letter, which stew and
the island there was a total disregard of British la the
authairity, and. continued the Noble Lord, he came to
conclusion that we were not strone enough to enforce or main-
tain either. And why >vas this? Because they had shown a
want of firmness in resitting unjuat demands. They had con-
founded kindneas with what, in fact, was not such, with some-
thing which led to a foolish inconsistency, the conse-
quence of that conduct everywhere, but more par-
ticularly where savage life was concerned. —( Hear. )
Having been told that they were entitled to more than another,
one perhaps having got one hundred and fifty psunds for his
land, while another perhaps is -t two hundred and fifty pounds,
and not knowing what entitled one to more than the other, na-
turellv gave rise to a feelino of discentent ; and the tribes be-
•me discontented not only will the arrangements far the land,
hot with the whole of the reguletioes established in the island.
Then, again• a chief went to the Governor, and said, We ob-
ject to that flare of yours, and if you will only take it down, we
shall all he at peace. It was plain from this, that even the
eliiefs knew whet the flag; meant. They thought if Captain
Fitzroy took down the five, he would at once renounce
his sovereignty over New Zealand, and then their
customs and the whole land would be restered to
them, to enjoy them as they had done before. It was
nece-sary, then, to consider of some plan for the purpose,
and lie owned that he wished the plan that had been made out
be the Right lion. Baronet were such as to preclude the in-
tervention of Parliement. Requite agreed with the opinion that
the House of Commons should not interfere without there was
grave cause for interference, but if there was grave cause for
interference, it was their bounden duty to do sea. —( Cheers. )
It was their bounden duty to see that the colony, in which
100,0(10 persons were living under the British flag, was not de-
raneed, or even over! urned by the mal-administration of its
laws. The Right Finn. Gentlemen told them their scheme for
the future, and with regard to land there was to be a tax on
the wild man, and there was to be registration of the land oc-
cupied by natives, but nothing was said how the registration
was to he conducted. It was easy enough to conduct a regis-
tration in the county of York, but in a place like New Zea-
land it became a matter of some difficulty to do so,
They had done here what they had done in other places ; they
had but maintained the right of the Crown. But to maintain
tho right of the Crown was not to wrest from the ignorant
natives their lands by trick and stratagem.—( Closers. ) Mr.
Spain said that he had travelled over the country—over
millions of acres of valuable land where the heman foot had
never trod—land which showed the" utmost promise if culti-
vation were applied to it. The Crown had at their disposal
that land. But if they said that this land was
to be registered as b >longing to the natives,
and to be taken away bee au-se they paid n) land
tax on it, they could not expect that the nation would see the
justice of this proceeding.—( Cheers. ) He owned that this
appeared to hip a great injustice, and likely to create a real
insurrection. The Right Hon. Gentleman proposed that there
should be a municipal form of government. One of the first
measures would he to establish a municipal form of government;
but he should like to know what the form of that municipal
government would be? He did not object to a municipal re-
presentative constitution in New Zealand. Then
they should fix the capital where the great body
of the settlers were, and appointing a government
elected from the people, they could settle the claims
of land in accordance with the votes of the great body.
He believed, seeing what Captain Hobson and Captain Fitzroy
had done—seeing the errors into which they had fallen—
seeing the dangers into which they had thrown the colony—be
was of opinion that the joint united sense of the settlers, speak-
ing through their representatives, could alone extricate them
from the embarrassments into which they had fallen. Captain
Grey was to be the Governor of the colony. Now he dif-
fered with those who said that a man of character and authority
should be sent out, or a person who had had longer experience
in command. He was of opinion that it required all the
vigour of life of an able-bodied man to bear up
against the fatigues which a Governor of New Zea-
land was expected to undergo. He was of opinion like-
wise that if they appointed a man of rank like Sir Henry Pot-
finger, they must give him absolute authority. They must
give him for a time despotic power. He would much rather have
a person of inferior name and character, who had not served, or
had so many years of experience, assisted by the people of New
Zealand to manage the affairs of the colony, than have a person
of higher authority, and enjoying absolute power. Of Captain
Grey he knew nothing, except as to his public conduct.
He had seen the reports with respect to the
colony of New South Wales, and they were such as to induce
him to ask him to accept the government of South Australia,
which contained one of the difficult problems to be solved In
the colonial government. Captain Grey had now for four or
five years administered the affairs of the colony, and he had
solved the problem with a degree of energy and success that
he could hardly have expected. He said, then, that if they
could give him good institutions to work with, Captain Grey
was the man to succeed in extricating the colony, and in gaining
the confidence and good will both of the settlers from this country
and the aborigines themselves Noman could better have shown
himself, by a memoir he had written, to be acquainted with
the manner in which the aborigines ought to be treated
and turned to the usages of civilised life ; but when they
sent a man to undertake this government, it was necessary
that they should send him out divested of all petty squabbles
upon the subject. and therefore he was ready to go with his
Hon. Friend into Committee on the matter. He was not pre-
pared to say that the resolutions come to by the Select Com-
mittee of last year would be fitting resolutions to be
adopted by a Committee of the whole House ;
but they ought to look to resolutions which
should have reeird for the future establishment of a free and
independent constitution that was likely to give confidence
both to those who were there and any of our people who
might be dispesed to undertake to settle in that fine
colony. It was not unworthy of the House of Commons to
undertake such 'a task. It was their proper function, and if
they did not do it, it would lead colonists to believe that in that
House they could find no redress. If they did it, however, he
thought at the end of that investigation they could console
themselves with the reflection that they had undertaken the
task that was unpalatable to the Government of the day, they
had assisted in laying the foundation of a noble colony, which
at present formed a part of this mighty empire, and which in
future time would extend English majesty, English institutions.
English liberty, and the English name in that part of the world.
Sir R. PEEL said it would be unfortunate if any difference
connected with party consideration, or any quarrel there might
have been between the Colonial Department and the New
Zealand Company should divert their attention from a consi-
deration of what was due to the interests of the colony, which
was the immediate subject of the discussion. He thought that
the Government of that country ought to extend to those who
resided there a due weight in the administration of their affairs.
He did not see the interest that this country could have in that
colony, unless they promoted its locial advantages. It was im-
possible that, at such a distance, this country should seek any
advantage except that which mey result from a reciprocal
dependance and local prosperity. The Noble Lord thought
that Auckland had been improperly selected as the seat of
Goverment. There were reasons at the time of its selection
which were thought to be of great importance. So far as mi-
litary and naval reasons were concerned, it had great recom-
mendations. That it ought to be assigned to another place
was a question which must be determined by a local consi-
deration of what may be for the advantage of the country.
At such a distance it would be no easy matter to apply the
principle of representation according to the construction which
they pet upon it. He thought that it would be an inefficient
plan. The formation of municipal corporations, with exten-
sive powers of local taxation for local demands, was the plan
which he would recommend. The Right Hon. Baronet then
referred to the opinion of Mr. Burke on that subject,
which laid down the importance of municipal cor-
porations in new colonies. That, however, was a
subject which would be referred to the intelligent man
about to be entrusted with the destinies of New Zealand. He
did not think it a wise plan to adopt the suggestion of the New
Zealand Company, of the propriety of connecting the Govern-
ment in this country with the representative system there. He
believed that they found the connexion between the Crown and
that body was complex enough. It was diffisult enough for
the Crown to maintain authority at that distance. They there
had the
whicheCsownan would be asystem of
dthe Company desiring
Government,
government so ano-
malous, that he did not think that success could attend it. He
believed that a very short time would elapse, before the repre-
sentative Government would deny the authority of the Corn-
pany. They would find that that authority would be
no easy matter to retain—it would be paralysed at a
very early period That system of government which im-
plied control, was a system frem which no good result could be
derived. With respect to the New Zealand Company, he
thought it would he important to retain them in their present
powers, not in mixing with the affairs of State—( Hear, hear)
—but supported as a great commercial body, acting on en-
lightened principles, and aiding the Executive Government in
the means of emigration. With respect to the revenue, he
must say that an abandonment of the present system of re-
ht
he e wished
commencement t
of
tlefeldht thatiiostnw observations,ta, no
sr iuenpxcopinprel
re-
venue constituted a most serious injury, ner,did he think that it
would be for the interest of that colony that the Customs re-
venue should be re-established, and, at the same time, he did
reason
thinkon
in
n histhat
mtihned factfor ofits itsr, abandonmentnon-establishment.
sh shouldnient. constituteThi
h e ha
had
hk
ei kind,
rerred becauseat
stated without any intermixture of any party feeling of any
would be most unfortunate if, amidst their personal
and party conflict, they permitted that which was
pl If,
htiheesnw,
ittihrethlle osuest
due to the interests of that colony to escape them.
the question.—( Hear, hear.) Having said so much on that
ets
isi
it
isot that
sphwasahryt
part of
point, he woull now come to the motion of his Hon. Friend;
etlewrsasonatthaislisue
and that motion he should beg leave to say that he would feel
warranted in voting against; if fur no other reason he would
do so for this one, that the resolutions of the Hon. Member
were the result of information upon the subject possessed by
that Hon. Member beyond any other Hon. Member in the
House, for he had appeared to have read more, and to have, by
other resources, acquired more information upon the subject than
any other Hon. Member in the House. But if he ( Sir R. Peel)
wanted a reason for voting against the motion, he founded on
the seventeen resolutions of his Hon. Friend, not one of which
really applied to the subject, except that affecting the treaty of
Watonga.—( Hear,' hear.) But, at the same time, he should
admit that he could not avoid condemning the conduct of Capt.
Fitzroy, conduct which was !indeed very much at variance wi; h
that which had b en adopted by the late much lamented Sir
F. Buxton —( Hear, hear.) The House might feel inclined to
blame Lord Stanley, but let them recollect that the
Marquis of Normanby was the Secretary for the Colonies
at the time alluded to by the Honourable Member.—( Hear. )
He thought that they were wrong in attempting to make New
Zealand a sovereign and independent State. He thought it
would be infinitely better to have claimed the right to New
Zealand, on the ground of prior discovery. He did not hesitate
to say that the treaty of Watonge was an unwise one. He
thought it would be better to assert the right of sovereignty
than accept the sovereignty from the cession of the chiefs.
And a great deal had been said about the missionaries. It
was found that the union with the missionaries was
inconvenient. Now, what said Lord Normanby to Cap-
tain Hobson. " You will, I trust, find powerful auxiliaries
amongst the missionaries who deserve the confidence of the
people." The missionaries felt exalted by this notice, but they
were turned round upon ultimately and accused of being land-
jobbers. The New Zealand Company said, " we have always
had very serious doubts whether the treaty of Watonga with the
native savages by a consul invested without any plenipotentiary
powers could be treated as anything but a praiseworthy device
for amusing savages." He (Sir R. Peel) believed that there
were a go:rd many lawyers in the New Zsalarad Company, and
that might be the doctrine held by them that the treaty of
Watauga was nothing more than a praiseworthy device for
amusing savages. If they held that doctrine they would vote
with the Hon. Gentleman.—(Cheers, and counter cheers )
But what had statesmen said of that device? The Noble
Lord wrote to Captain Hobson, stating his opinion that there
were none whose claims rested on stronger grounds than those
of the New Zealander. There the treaty and its sanctity was
recoguised, and there was the law held by statesmen ; and
was the House prepared, when they found those engagements

, onerous to "Ellemselves and prejudicial to the natives,to dis-
; claim and repudiate ehe views
/
of ,_, etesmen and aellothose of
tawyer.s.—( Hear, hear.) Let them not mistake t question
lat issue that. night. The honour of the House was tae
in
!the
...::,emettion, : and the result. Lord Stanley had bee..
;,n:!.d) his pehey had been impugned, nay his motives
had nor escaped aspersion, but before they c en-
, derailed him, the douse should hear the eeution,
the reserve, the arguirints which attended and ratified the
treaty. ( The Right Hors. ilaeonef het e read copious ex-
tracts from the report of Captain Hobson in 18119, stating,
that in pursuance of instructions from the home Government,
he had summoned the principal European inhabitants, the
native chiefs, and the missionaries reehleut in the island.)
Many parties were, therefore, present—many were witnesses
to the engagement. Mr. Williams, of the Church Missionary
Society, was selected as interpreter, and repeated several sen-
te,.-stes to the natives who were asked to offer ,suggestions, or
dernan.4 explanations. A native chief at one period rose and
combatec 'he propositions of the Government with such ability
i
as at one tik'ne to impress the mind of Captain Hobson with
a doubt of the Sttccess of the treaty ; the must formidable
argument employed being the danger of the tenure of their
lands. Such, forsooth, were the "native savages" who
had been 6% amused" with a delusive treaty.—( Hear, hear. )
Another chief, however, rose to oppose the arguments of the
former, and with a native eloquence that astonished all the
Europeans, urged the value of native intercourse with the coin-
niete, conjured them to accept the treaty, and trust to the
honour of the Europeans to preserve their cuAnme, and not
permit their land., to be endangered. Again it would be per.
ceived, land was their chief anxiety and the subject of all their
fear. The consideration of the question on that particular oce
casion was adjourned, but subsequently was resumed, and the
treaty being signed, received the sanction and ap-
proval of the Noble Lord Surely after such de-
cided approbation on the part of the Home Government, after
its recognition of the treaty and its sanctity, if ever an obliga-
tion was rendered strong by the weakness of a party, it was the
one entered into in the case of the New Zealand Company.—
( Hear. ) The Noble Lord said he had been charged with hav-
ing broken a contract with the New Zealand Company. He
had been particularly severe with Gentlemen on his side of the
House, but that was the charge which bad been directed against
the Noble Lord by the New Zealand (lompeny. In the me-
moranda attached to the resolutioxer the Hon. Member for
Liskeard, it was stated that it war n,,, ossible to reconcile the
missionary system with the colonial system. The charge of
inconsistency against the Noble Lord was clearly attributable
to the Honourable Gentleman who was sitting by his side.
According to the Noble Lord's first construction of the treaty
of Watonga, there was nothing inconsistent in it with the
agreement existing with the New Zealand Company. The
wish of his Noble Friend ( Lord Stanley) was, that although
the Company could not establish a claim to the lands by pur-
chase, he would assign to them all the land he could,
conditionally, subject to the claims of other parties subsequently
establishing their titles to the land so assigned. With respect
to the binding nature of the treaty of Watonga, he could not
say more to the Company than that they should be permitted to
choose land within certain limits on the condition that they
should yield it up to the right owner if his claim were esta-
blished within a certain time. He must say that the inten-
tions of his Noble Friend hal not been fulfilled as they ought
to have been fulfilled. He did not admit the claim of
right of the New Zealand Company, and he could
give no more than what he had given. lie was
prepared to require that parties should proceed immediately
to establish their claim to their land, and take po session of
the land to which their title could not be disputed; and the
Crown would be disposed to compensate the New Zealand
Company with a sufficient equivalent. The construction
which his Noble Friend had put on the treaty of Watongo was
a bone fide construction. He did not admit that the natives
had a right to the waste lands unless they established their
claim of pre-occupation, and unless a valid title was established
the right of ownership would clearly vest in the Crown.
The real question was, whether his Noble Friend (Lard
Stanley) shou'd repudiate that which had been ueheld by pre-
vious Colonial Secretaries, and among others by Lord John
Russell. If ;the House consented to the course proposed, it
would lead to the worst results. They ought to affirm the
treaty of Watonga, else they would be laying down a principle
that would virtually dispossess the chiefs of all title to the land.
If they affirmed the resolutions they would not only censure
the Noble Lord, but fix a censure on the law of which the
Noble Lord was the instrument. Let it be borne in mind
that in the New Zealand Company tiler. were men of the
highest character and influence, yet that in despite of this in-
fluence and the temptati ins and blandishments that surrounded
him, inviting him to peace and repose, on this question his
Noble Friend had not yielded, bat from the high sense
of the duty he owed his country, had considered himself
compelled to maintain inviolate the engagements which had
been contracted with the people of New Zealand, maintaining
in their integrity the rights and guarantees of the distant and
unprotected. [The Right Hon. Baronet sat down amidst
great cheering].
Mr. C. BULLER rose to reply. The Right Hon. Baronet,
in speaking of the treaty of Watonga, had said, with regard to
the land claimed by the natives, they should be required to
prove it in a court of law —( Hear, hear)—and afterwards to
register it. If they failed in this proce,s, then they were
taxed for it, and the practical effect was that the land was confis-
cated.—( Hear.) He denounced such mean artifices. It was
a violation of the law of nations to impose a tax, the real ob-
ject of which was to confiscate the land of the natives. In the
whole country there were 60,000,000 of acres, and of these
58,300,000 belonged to the natives. That was the opi-
nion of the Government, and such was the interpretation put
on the treaty of Watonga. He agreed, however, with the Noble
Lord the Member for London, in his eenstruetion of it. that
it never was designed that that Crown should give up its right
to the waste land. Supposing, however, that they took that
construction of it, had the Government taken the proper mea-
sures to get possesaien of the land? They had put on a land
tax to confiscate the whole of the country.—(Hear, hear.)
These monstrosities, which denoted the absence of all law, was
the course pursued by the Government. Let them pitch the
Watonga treaty into the sea, but let them not seek
to obtain by secret and covert means what they
dare not at tempt openly. ( Tremendous cheering. )
He was astonished, after the speech which the Right Hon.
Baronet at the head of the Government had delivered, that he
could vote against the resolutions, as tFe whole tenor of his
address was in favour of them. He was perfectly satisfied that
the Government had net attempted to mislead the House as
to the management of New Zealand in past times.
But the statements which they now put forward
for the management of the colony did not in
his opinion give a sufficient guarantee of its safety;
and he therefore called upon the House to deal fairly with the
question and to give rro.ection to the aborigines of New Zea-
land.—(Cheers and cries of " Divide, divide.")
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the resolutions
Against
Majority
—57
RAILWAY CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION (SCOT-
LAND) BILL.
The LORD ADVOCATE moved that the Lords' Amend-
ments on the Bill be agreed to.
Mr. LA BO UCH E 11E objected to the clauses which re-
lated to tolls on public highways.
Ultimately the Lords' Amendments were rejected without a
division.

172
•.223

SIR HENRY POTTINGER'S ANNUITY BILL.
This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be com-
mitted this day week.
The remaining orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at twenty minutes to Three o'clock.