The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-16 00:00:00

say that no human being could calculate the loss which
the country sustained in consequence of the opera-
tion of the sliding scale. During the last four
years there bad been nearly ten millions of quarten- of
corn-purchased for this country. Immediately on
the demand, the corn-dealers rushed to the
nearest market, and purchased corn at any price
for which it could be obtained, especially when it was
seen that within a certain period the sliding scale would
reduce the duty to ls. In August, 1838, he saw a re-
markable illustration of this. He happened to be at
Hamburgh, on his way to the north of Germany, and the
instant he arrived he was asked by an English gentleman
as to the state of the weather and the crops in England,
at the time he (Mr. Williams) left. This gentleman
was the representative of large London corn-
dealers, who was sent out to purchase corn in
llamburgh, under the expectation that there would
be a failure in the crops in England in 1838.
This gentleman then went to the large holders of corn, and
offered them the same prices which they had agreed to take
five days before—( Hear, hear)—but not a quarter would they
sell, without a considerah4 advance upon that price. No
doubt there had been a great evil in the Corn-laws, by en-
hancing the price of the bread of the working man, but It had
caused them much more suffering by depriving him of employ-
ment, through the derangement of the currency, and the inter-
ruption of commerce.—( Hear, hear). As the smallest calcu-
htion in the last fo it years, 15,000,0001. in bullion had been
sent out of the country to pay for corn—(Hear)—and in those
years we had paid full fifty or fifty-five per cent. more than if
we had traded upon the fixed duty.—( Hear, bear.) With the
• fixed duty we could be supplied from the western coast of
America in years of deficiency, which could never be the case
whilst there was the sliding-scale.—( Hear, hear.) There was
another subject which the present system affected very mate-
rially. In getting into the foreign market in a hurry for our
corn, it becomes r.ecessary to employ foreign shipping—
(Hear, hear, hear)—for we have no opportunity of em-
plo)ing our own; for if a merchant happenerl to
have one of his own ships on the port to which
he goes for corn, and if she is not ready to siil
at once, he cannot wait even a day, but must charter the first
foreign vessel he finds ready to sail, or otherwise he would
surely arrive too late for the low duty,—( Hear.) The slid-
ing scale appeared to him in every point of view to be most
injurious to every interest except the landowners. The Right
Hon. Baronet bad stated one most astonishing proposition.
He had stated that it was a common doctrine with many per-
sons in bringing accusations against the Corn-laws to say
that they laid a tax on corn, which was paid by the consumer
to the producer of corn ; but thathe (Sir R. Peel) denied that
doctrine. He (Mr. Williams) understood that Right Hon. Batt.
denied that proposition, &Ad was astonished to hear him say so.
He should like to 'know what object the Right Hon. Bart. could
have in desiring to keep the price of corn up to from 545. to
565., unless it were to protect the landed interest. The Hon.
Member for Aylesbury had said the object of the Corn-laws
was to protect the landed interest by giving them higherprices
than they could otherwise obtain, and he would ask what was
a duty imposed for the purpose of giving the landed interest
higher prices, but a tax paid to them by the consumers, and
who were the consumers, the millions r f the working classes of
this country, and who derived the benefit of it ? The rich land-
owners ; therefore, the tax was a direct tax, as direct a tax as
the house-tax, and it was taken out of the pockets of
the consumers, and put into the pockets of the aris-
tocratical landowner. The Right Hon. Baronet had with a
great deal of pomp and form, introduced a number of statistical
details into his speech relative to the comparative consump-
tion of the necessaries of life in Prussia and in England by the
working classes. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated that
the autholity from which he had derived his information was
unquestionable, and that it was believed means existed of as
certaining exactly the statement which he had established.
Sir ROBERT PEEL—I said that Dr. Bowring's report
stated that there existed means of arriving at accurate statis-
tical details.

Mr. W. WILLIAMS was aware that the Right Honourable
Baronet had said so, but the Right Hon. Baronet had further
said, as from himself, that it was believed that there existed
means of ascertaining exactly the accuracy of those statistical
details. He took the words down at the time ; but he would
only take those words which the Right Hon. Baronet ad-
mitted. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated upon the au
thority of those statistics, that in Prussia they consumed of meat
351bs. a y7ear each person, and that in this country each person
consumed 50Ibs. Another Gentleman, however had estimated
the consumption at 100 lbs. Now, taking the meat at 7d. a
lb., it would make a difference of consumption to the amount
of 12,000,000 lbs. Some vntleman had stated that the con-
sumption of wheat by each individual, was one quarter annu-
ally, while others stated it at two quarters. Supposing this
to apply to the consumption in England and Wales, and sup-
posing the price to be 515., in the article of bread alone there
would be b consumption to the amount `of 12,000,000 lbs., and
if that was applied to- the United Kingdom, it would be up-
wards of 50,000,0001b5. Now, the next article to which the
Right Hon. Baronet had referred was woollen cloth. That
sag an article that was es'entially necessary. He had stated
that in Prussia the consumption was two ells each poison.
'1 hese were the great and important illustrations given 4y,the
Right Hoe:s.S.Aardridts.. as-.pt sof OtAhe superior
-OT the 'people of England •as compared with Prussia. The
Right Hon. Baronet had stated the relative proportion of con-
sumption in this country, upon the authority of two gentlemen
wham he considered well informed upon the subject; but he
would put it to the Right Hon. Baronet whether there was
in reality any means of arriving at a correct estimate upon
the matter. He would ask the Right Hon. Baronet if he had
any idea of the average yearly consumption of his own family ?
He would ask any Hon. Member in that House if he knew the
average of his own consumption, or of that of his next door
neighbour ? He believed that any Hon. Member would reply
to the question in the negative ; and the Right Hon. Bart.
must have been such in need of arguments when he had
recourse to statements of such a nature. He (Mr. Williams)
had travelled through many parts of Prussia, and he believed
from his own observation that the working-classes there were
in a better condition than the working-classes in thiscountry.
He had reason to believe that the condition of .the working-
classes in Switzerland:and in France was still better than in
Prussia. The Right Hon. Gentleman had referred to the
United States, and stated that one of the causes of the great
depression which had of late prevailed in the trade of this
country, was the derangement in the monetary affairs of the
United States. Now he (Mr. Williams) had been in the
United States at the period referred to by the Right Hon.
Baronet, and he had seen no evidence there of distress of any
kind ; the people Were well fed . and well clothed, and
there was ne human being who seemed to suffer from povet ty
But he, in common with every Englishman who visited that
part of the country, could not but fesl regret when they saw
the 3,000 newspapers pul.lished there daily, containing some
accounts of the awful distress existing amongst the working-
classes in this country, and drawing a comparison between the
misery and destitution of the people here and the happy con-
n supplanted us in their own
us to a considerable dition of the people of the United States. He saw there a
most extraordinary advancement in the state of their manufac-
tur
market, es*
Theybt
ex-
tent in neutral markets. Three millions, six hundred
thousand dollars, worth of manuafactured goods had been
exported, during the jig year, to the United States.
u theyhad knadt only
beaten
Hear, hear.) He "acted the Right Honourable
Baronet would have regarded the rising condition, which was
advancing in the United States, as producing an impression on
the mind of the working-classes of this country. They might
depend upon it, that unless the working-classes in this country
were relieved of some of their burdens, our manufacturing
trade must decline. He could see no possibility of it maintain-
ing its stand, unless by that means. He trusted the admis-
sion of corn free from duty would, to a great extent,
relieve the depression on manufantutine and commercial inte-
rests ; but he believed that more must be done for the people,
and that they must be considerably relieved from the burden of
taxation.—( Hear, hear.) He could not look back at the state
of Switzerland and the United States seven years ago, and look
forward seven years to come, but with great alarm for the
manufactures of this country. Though some said it was too
late to set about any measure, he believed that measures
might be adopted yet to afford substantial relief to the manu-
facturing population, whereby they might recover and sustain
their former position. They neither want skill nor in-
dustry.—(Hear, hear, hear.) No people excelled them
in those qualities, but they could not contend with the Swiss
people. who paid scarce any taxes, whil,t their taxes were so
immense. He certainly did expect that the Right Hon.
Baronet would have regarded the present distressed condition
of our manufacturing and commercial men with a feeling
very different to that which he had manifested in his proposi-
tion, lie could not help thinking that the aristocracy of this
country, for whose benefit the.e lass were maintained, were
eemmitt,ng a great mjustice. The people of this country had
regarded the aristocracy with every feeling of moderation and
respect. Now they began to examine into the grounds of
their claims to tax the rest of the community. Wh.t did the
middle classes say of the aristocracy—those middle classes
who had alwa a teen their shield, and who would continue to
be their shield, if they d;d not persist in maintaining a system
of oppression and injustice ? 'I hey said that the aristocracy
who thus taxed them were superior to them neither physically
nor mentally, neither in virtue nor in morals; and they asked,
what right had they, in the midst of luxury and splendour. to
tax the food of the people ? He believed that the time was fast
approaching, and he did not say it to taunt that class, he had
no such feeling towards them , but he believed the time was
fast approaching, when, if they continued to pursue this course
of injustice towards the middleand working-classes, their pre-
tensions would be very inconveniently enquired into by those
classes of this country. If they depended on the military, the
police, and the constabulary, for their suppot t, they would not
be able to maintain that tax. If they placed themselves in
hostile opposition to the peple, how they expect the contest
would end ?—( Hear, hear.) Let them look to the condition
of France. No aristocracy could be; prouder, or have enjoyed
greater privileges than did the aristocracy of France, They
pursued
the same course in levying oppressive taxation
on the people, but what Was the result? We need not
aristocrat
There is nothing
say what is the end of that at
hear ) There was a feeling
like being wise in time.—(Hear, would' not allow them to suffer
abroad among the people that
He would vote for the proposition
oppression.—( Hear, hear.)
of the:Noble Lord the Member, for London, because he thought
a fitted duty preferable to a sliding
scale; at the same time that
d would vote for the propo-
sition of the Hon. Mamba for he objected to all taxes on food, an
Wolverhampton as the only °se
country, and which he be-
which would give satisfaction the.land.—( Cheers. )
lieved ought to be the law of the
hat having taken a deep
Mr. ORNISBY GORE said thaw a
it his utmost attention
terest in the present question,
hesatavnce of an able and honest
during the recess, arid with the
dasto ascertain exactly to a fraction
neighbour of his he was enabled to
of 69 individuals, all of
the consumption of 13 families,
immediateconsisting
neighbourhood. those la-
bourersconthem labouring in his tant employment, and he found
were all of them in bushelss and a small fraction, im-
perialtheir consumption to be eight
nnum_ that was one quarter.
measure, per head per
The consumption by each individual, taking the average at
565. 9d., the measure would be eight bushels for twelve
months, which would be Is. 01. a head per meek. The duty
amounted to to ss. 914 d., which would be mod. a month er ld.
a week on each, and this was
the amount that the party op-
posits cried out was destroying the working man. But those
were too wise to believe this st atem. nt, though he would grant
the party o;•posite had is violent placards and established
sues.
money in a very extraordinary
a violent league, and had raised
five farthings a week, but
manner. Not on account of IbeSe 1 k h • I
dtosia e t e and to its
for
party
.p_urpcses, they desire
r conduct was regarded he
centre. Now to show how the
man.
would refer to a letter he had received from a working
letter, but
of this he stated that
He knew nothing of the author
f employment, and that the majo-
rity was a working man out go
aware that the Corn-laws had
ray of his class were perfectly
nothing to do with their misery. The Hon. Member then read
• vised that
the extract he had alluded to, in which the writer ad
the working men should be consulted, and
they mould state
that the great and primary cause of all their distress had re-
mained
state that neither the Corn-laws,
unnoticed; they would
nor the currency, nor the .
banks affected them, chile their
labour remained untouched ;
but that any power that should
destroy their labour, would destroy them likewise. They knew
that all their distress was to be attributed to the unlimited ex-
tension of maehittevy, Which
during the last two years, had
thrown thousands of persons ef.onnployment ; that the same
cause was extending, and, unless cheatitt i Legislative enact-
ments, would end in bringing down
.ruin ;4*
Hon looter
zoiXO,yere so anxious for its extension. The
then pie the same document) a com-
ynderstood from _
putation of ate lignd labour that would have been re-
quired to supply the 1111118 quantit
power-loom employing only two men to attend to it.