The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-25 00:00:00

declared positively, that what he said was the fact("No,''no.) He
no.") Hon. Gentlemen might now deny it, but he (Mr. Villiers).
—.
took dawn the words which were distinctly, " That all the petitions
which were brought before that House against the Corn.laws had
been procured by money."—(" No, no," from the Opposition.) He
repeated it in the presence of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough;
again he said that that Hon. Member distinctly stated that the pe-
titions against the Corn-laws presented to the House had been
procured by money.—(Several Members on the Opposition, amongst
whom was the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, then rose from
their seats, and repeated their dissent from the assertion of the
Hon. Member for Wolverhampton.) The Hon. Gentleman then
said--Well, then, as the Hon. Member for Knaresborough denies
that he has said so, it amounts to an acknowledgment that those
petitions had not been procured in that way.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
The Hon. Gentleman said the working classes were not opposed
to the Corn-laws. He (Mr. Villiers) said many of them were.
—(Laughter and "Oh.") His own constituents were—many others
were. He had not mooted this question so many years without
knowing the feelings of the people on it; and therefore he now
affirmed that a large body of the working classes were as in.
tensely opposed to the Corn-laws as any other cla-s of person
could be.—(Cheers.) As for the charges which the Hon. Mem.
ber brought against the manufactnrers accusing them of plunder,
robbery, and fraud, he supposed the Hon. Gentleman was pre-
pared to prove them ?

Mr. FERRAND—Decidedly.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. VILLIERS—It must be obvious to the House and the
country that the charges brought against the manufacturers sub.
scribing to the Anti-Corn-law League oouhl not stop here. The
name and circumstances of every one bf these subscribers were
known, and an investigation must take place. They must see whe-
ther the Honourable Member could establish his charge of
fraud and robbery, after having stated it amidst the accla-
mations of the House; for he (Mr. Villiers) could hardly see
a member on the other side who had not cheered the Honour-
able Member for Knaresborough, and of course those who
cheered him, would insist upon his making his case good.—
(Cheers,) Notwithstanding this imputations against those who agi.
tated this question, he (Mr. Villiers) affirmed that he was justified
in bringing forward his motion. Justified by his knowledge of the
evils caused by the Corn.laws—by his knowledge of the feelings
of the people—and justified even by the plan of the Right Hon.
Baronet—for that measure was in reality a concession, and the
feelings and opinions of those who opposed the Corn-laws—(Cheers)
—for, otherwise, why should the Right Hon. Baronet bring for-
werd a measure which would please none—would relieve none—
and was not even satisfactory to the Government itself?—(Cheers.)
This, therefore, was a sign to the people that they must persevere.
—(Cheers.) Let them see from this that if they continue to agi-
tate for a repeal of the Corn.laws, they must be successful.—
(Cheers.) As for his opponents, they had opposed his motion by
repetitions and stale arguments.—(Cheers and laughter.) There
was nothing new in what they said. —(Cheers and laughter.) Some
Hon. Gentleman said, only convince me that it is
good for the people to have bread enough, and I'll
rote for you."—(A laugh ) This was all that could
be urged by those who contended that less was better than none.
This was all that the Hon. Member for the West Riding of York.
shire could say.—(Hear, hear.) There was another point to be no-
ticed. This was an assertion that there were vested interests in
agriculture, and connected with it, which he disregarded. Now
if the minority were small, it would be seen that
this argument had weighed with many. Now he
was not so dishonest as to disregard any vested
interest; but he would ask where was this principle to end ? But
every such argument against the repeal of the Corn-laws applied
equally to the plan for their modification.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Would not even the adoption ef a moderate fixed duty disturb
much of the capital invested in agriculture; for it would threw
bad lands out of cultivation, and it was in those lands
that the most capital was sunk? (Hear, hear, hear.)
If the protection was withdrawn from land, they might expect that
some would be thrown out of cultivation ; but what consolation
would it be to the owners, to find that if the measure had been
more extensive, some others would suffer as well as themselves ?
The argument of the Noble Duke, who had now left
the Government, was the only straightforward one ;
either the public had a right to repeal, or they
had a right to protection, and if they had a right to
protection, why abandon it ? If the people have a right to re-
peal, why not grant it ? However, he might differ from the
Noble Duke, he could not but respect the sternness
and consistency with which he maintained his prin-
ciples. This question stood entirely by itself, it was
a question between protection, and total and immediate repeal. He
contended that the people had a right to repeal, and they had not
shossln any right to protection. He, therefore, considered that this
measure was founded in justice. He could not yet understand the
argument of those Gentlemen who said they could not
vote with him, and yet agreed !with him in principle,
In the beginning of their speeches they had the most violent ti-
rades against the Corn-laws; that they were founded on injustice,
and maintained for the benefit of a particular class. They say
everything that could excite the people against the law, yet all of
a sudden they stop short, and that industrious and useful
as it is, they cannot vote for a sudden suppression of injustice.
The time had come when the law ought to cease, and he pro-
posed a resolution declaratory of its ill effects, and that its conse.
quences to the country no longer warranted its continuance.
They wished the House to declare that they ought not to be coutinued,
and that was the reason he had proposed a resolution declaring that
the duties called Corn-laws should now cease and determine. He
was sorry to hear the Noble Lord below declare that he intended to
vote against him. But he certainly understood the position of
that Noble Lord. He came forward as an arbitrator
between the community and those who wished to maintain the
Corn-laws, and he understood that he still wished to be the arbi.
trator, and to settle the claims of the contending parties. But
before another year he might find himself completely mistaken.
There would be the same unreasonableness in thak 1
who maintained the law, and he would perhaps see
more clearly the justice of the claim of the people to a total repeal.
;Cries of Divide.") The foundation of his motina was neither
unreasonable nor violent ; and he might justify it'hy the course
of proceeding in other measures. The claims of vested in-
terests might just as well be stated on other occasions.
They had been so, and had been disregarded, The just principle
on all occasions was to balance the good and the evil, and on which
ever side the good preponderated, to select that. When the trade
was set free between Ireland and this country, the same arguments
were used for the interests of those wlyo had vested capital in the old
system ; but the measure was passed because it was for the good
of the country. Another measure was the restoration of the cur.
rency, by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, and the placing it on the
proper basis. If ever there was a measure which required more care
and more time to be allowed, it was the Bank Restriction Act. It
was certainly only passed for a year, and was always re-enacted, but
it had been re.enacted so often that no one expected it would ever
be repealed. He had no doubt some • mischief was done, yet even
the purists in politics, the strict political economists, one and all,
agreed that a more justifiable measure was never passed than the
Bill of 1819.

Sir P,- PEEL intimated that it was not a sudden measure.

Mr. VILLIERS said whether the measure was sudden or not,
it was certain that people were not prepared for it when it did
pass ; yet it was never said that it could not be enacted, because
under the old system debtors and creditors had relative interests
which could not be disturbed. The Reform Bill might
have been resisted on the same grounds ; under the old system
of representation, certain boroughs became a species of property,
yet they never considered those who had vested their money in pro.
perty of that kind. What regard was paid to vested interests when
the Pcor-law was passed ? The only argument was that the old sys-
tem did more harm than good, and some reform ought to take place.
The discussion upon that law did not last three months; and yet
he would venture to say that it made a much greater change
in the circumstances of the poor than a change in the Corn.law
could make in the circumstances of the rich. The Poor-law case
was a case of vested interest, and he appealed to it now in de-
fence of the motion he had submitted to the House which he
had been told was a violation of vested interests. He was only
sorry for having brought forward the motion upon one ground,
namely, that he was afraid from all he had seen and heard, that
there would be a very large majority against him
on a division.—(Hear, hear.) It could not be doubted that all
parties interested in manufactures—all parties in commerce—all the
working classes, and the great mass of the community, were de.
sirous that the Corn-laws should be repealed.—(Hear, hear, and cries
of" No.'') He was sure that this was the reflection which they would
force upon every one, that that which all the great and prominent
interests of the country wished, had been refused by the House of
Commons. He had only to submit his motion, with this observation
with respect to its purpose. He had heard several interpretations
put u,on it, and he wished to give his own. The Right Hon. Ba-
ronet seemed to fix upon him a disposition to attach great import-
ance to an instantaneous repeal. But, as he had said before, all
he proposed was, that there should be a declaration of the House
to the effect that the time was come when the duty upon corn
should cease. Ile had not, however, the least objection to take
into consideration the particular claims of the landed interest ; and
the declaration to which he was anxious they should come was,
that they wished for a total repeal of the Corn-lawii.—(Hear, hear.)
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided,
when there appeared—

For the Amendment
Against it

90
393

Majority against the Amendment -- 303
The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and obtained leave to
sit again.
The House then adjourned at Two o'Clock.