The Sun.
London, England, 1842-08-10 00:00:00

in the Isle of Wight, prisons in Pentonville, prison:-
here, prisons there, prisons everywhere—the whole
country was full of prisons—and yet they could not
agree as to any efficient system. He had called
the attention of the Secretary of State to the case of Wm.
Penny, whose health was suffering from imprisonment
in Northallerton gaol. No attention had been paid to it,
and he supposed that not until the man was within
twenty-four hours of his death would any order be
issued for his release. _ _

Mr. HAWES defended the appointment of the
Commissioners. If these Commissioners had not been
appointed, an outcry would have been raised about cen -
tralization, and it would have been said that the people
would have been-excluded from the management of their
own concerns and all local authority overthrown.
He did not think that there had been a case of abuse
established. The lion. Gentleman, the Member for
Montrose, said that the Chartists had been treated by
the late Government with cruelty. Of course that ap-
plied to certain men, and of course came down to the
late Secretary of State. Well he (Mr. Hawes) would
say, there never was a more unjust charge. In the
first place the law was not violated by that Go-
vernment. With respect to the wisdom of that prosecu-
tion he gave no opinion; that was no part of the charge.
He had his own opinion upon it. The charge was, that they
were treated with cruelty. There was certainly a hard-
ship done in placing the political offenders with those per-
sons who had committed felonylßut the moment the sub-
ject was brought under the consideration of the House
An Act was introduced, providing that political offenders
should not be placed with persons charged with felony.
He (Mr. Hawes) should say, that taking the
present prison system altogether, although perhaps not
the best, it was one that would improve, and would ob-
tain additional confidence from the public, and additional
power to repress crime.
Mr. GREENE, as one of the Commissioners of Mil-
bank Penitentiary, wished to say a few words in reply
to what had fallen from the Hon. Member for
Montrose. The Honourable Gentleman said that
the whole weight and responsibility ought to
rest with the Secretary of State for the
time being. The Secretary of State was responsible now,
and was also responsible for the appointments made while
he was in office.

Mr. EWART entirely agreed with the Hon. Member
for Lambeth, that the present system of prison discipline
was improving, and had been for some time, and he felt
convinced would continue to do so ; but he agreed with
the Hon. Member for Montrose that the responsibility of
the Secretary of State was not at all defined, but was in
a state of uncertainty.
Mr. AGLIONBY said that so far from the political
offenders in the time of the late Government having
been treated with humanity, they had been treated with
so much harshness that the subject forced itself on the
attention of the House.—(Hear, hear.) He would refer
to the case of the prisoners in Warwick Castle. Where
could there be a case of greater hardship.—(Hear.)
That case was brought before the House by the Hon.
Member for Finsbury, and the mitigation of the punish-
ment was not obtained from the Home-office of that day
until the subject was brought under the consideration of
the House.

After a few words in explanation from Mr. HAW Es
and Mr. AGLIONBY,
Sir J. GRAHAM rose to order. The Hon. Member
had made his motion upon an Order of the Day, to which
it in no way referred, and that was contrary to a recent
motion of the House. This discussion might take five or
six hours, and as it was interrupting the business of the
House, he thought he had a right to rise to order.
The SPEAKER said he was exceedingly glad that
the Right Hon. Baronet had called the attention of the
House to this point. It was his (the Speaker's) inten-
tion to have done so previous to putting the motion that
the Bill before the House be read a third time. The
Order of the Day for the third reading of the Insol-
vent Debtors Bill had been read ; the question
was that the Bill be read a third time.
Therefore, according to a rule of the House, no Hon.
Member could move an amendment not strictly relevant
to the matter before the House.—(Hear, hear.) He
hoped that in another session that rule would be more
strictly adhered to.—(Hear, hear.)

Sir T. WILDE thought that the Right Hon. Baronet
had done quite right in rising to order. He (Sir T.
Wilde) merely rose to say that he hoped the
House would ever express its severe condemna-
tion of any medical officer who said that a criminal
was ill, without first subjecting him to a proper
examination, and under the pretence of affording him
relief by a medical remedy, really administered punish-
ment. He (Sir T. Wilde) remembered in the case of
Bridley at Ilchester gaol, that he had applied a
plaister to a man's hcad, which ended in the death of the
patient. He did not think that the Right Hon. Baronet's
real opinion of that conduct was at all contained in the
speech which he made on the occasion. He (Sir T.
Wilde) felt satisfied that such conduct would meet with
the entire condemnation of the Right Hon. Baronet at
the proper time and in the proper place.
After a short conversation the Bill was read a third
time and passed.