The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-16 00:00:00

PRESBYTERIAN MIXED MARRIAGES.

Mr. EMERSON TENNENT presented petitions,
praying for alterations in the law relating to Presbyte-
rian marriages in Ireland.
Sir 11. BATESON presented petitions from two places
in Derry, regarding Presbyterian marriages, praying
that the House would be pleased to pass a law, to legalise
all those marriages which had already taken place. and
make such marriages valid in future. This question
caused great excitement in the north of Ireland.
METROPOLITAN BRIDGE TOLLS;
Mr. MASTERMAN presented a petition from the in-
habitants of the metropolis, praying that the tails on
the different metropolitan bridges should by taken off.
Mr. B. WOOD presented a petition to the same effect,
from the inhabitants of the Wttterloo.road.
Mr. G. W. WOOD brought up the Report on Public
Petitions, which was ordered to lie op, the table.

ettEtc-eoLA
d,
ial
ilp%feiSttvi.
ot
ur ofrome t
ph
lea
nApmr
pro-
me
ric.LlnorcdhSaAmNbeDr OoNf
CopCmrOemsi
posed by Sir Robert Pon' with respect to the Corn-laws.
Mr. W. EVANS presented a petition in favour of the
total repeal of the Corn-laws.
Mr. VILLIERS presented several potitions from
Nantwich and other places in Citeshirt, praying for a
total repeal of the Corn and Provision-laws ; also peti-
tions to the same PitUet from the shoemakers of Cheshiro.
MrsMITACIN BY
presented a petition from an agri-
uultoral district in Cumberland, unanimously .signed by
the occupiers of estates, and farmers, praying a repeal of
the Corn-laws ; also a petition from the weavers of Car-
lisle, to the sumo effect. The petitioners stated that great
di.treis oeisted in the town, which they attributed in
a great measure to the system adopted by the manufac-
turers in endeavouring to underooll each other—a
system which ought to be chocked. The petitioners
suggested that Bill . should be introduced into
the House Air the purpose of regulating the price
of wheat, as a means of alleviating the sufferings
of the people. The petitioners further stated that for
some time past they had not received more than 3s. 3d.
per week each individual, and they were now further
reduced and many of them were now only in the receipt
of is, 3d. per week.
Mr. ALDHAM presented a petition praying for a
repeal of the Corn-laws.
Mr. COBDEN presented a great number of petitions
from Lancashire, 'Yorkshire, and a variety of other
places, praying for a total repeal of the Corn-laws.
Captain PECHELL 13resented a petition from an indi-
vidual of the name of John Ball Browne, surgeon of
Brighton, complaining of the provisions of the Act for Re-
covery of Small Debts, and prayingthat execution should
by had against the body, and not against the goods.--
(A laugh.) Also, a petition from the Endfield Congise-
gation, against the plan proposed by Sir Robert Peel,
respecting the Corn-laws. Also a petition, signed by the
members of the congregation and other friends of Union-
street Chapel, Brighton, praying that that House would
immediately take into their consideration the Corn and
Provision.laws.
DISPUTED RETURN.

Tlhe SPEAKER informed the House that the parties
to te petition complaining of an undue return for the
county of Carlow had no intention of proceeding with
the said petition, on both sides.—(Hear, hear.)
CORN-LAWS.

Sir C. NAPIER presented twenty-four petitions,
praying for a repeal of the Corn-laws.
Mr. BUNBURY presented petitions to the same effect.
Mr. J. PARKER presented petitions from Rotherham,
Blackburn, and several other places in the West Riding
of Yorkshire, praying for a total repeal of the Corn-laws.
THE WEST INDIA BISHOPS.

Sir C. NAPIER wished to ask the Noble Lord, the
Secretary for the Colonies, where he intended to put
the three new Ulshops in the Leeward Islands ?
Lord STANLEY said it was the intention of the
Government to divide the dioceses in such a manner
that the residence of one Bishop would be in Barbadoes,
and of the two others the residences would be Demerara
and Antigua
PRESBYTERIAN MARRIAGES.

Mr. LITTON presented a petition from the congre-
gation of the Presbyterian Church at Cromlin, praying
the House to pass a measure to legalise all marriages
heretofore solemnised by a Presbyterian clergyman be-
tween Protestants and Dissenters, and also such as were
to be solemnised in future.
SUGAR DUTIES.

Mr. C. BERKELEY begged to know from the Noble
Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, whether it was the
intention of her Majesty's Government to propose ane
alteration in the Sugar Duties.
Lord STANLEY said that it was impossible for him,
under present circumstances, to give any answer to the
question of the Hon. Member. The subject
was one of great importance, and, in conse-
quence of that very great importance, and in con-
sequence also of the more extensive measure which was
in contemplation by his Right Hon. Friend, it would be
unwise If he were to give any answer on the subject of
the alteration of the Sugar Duties, or the intention of
her Majesty's Government with regard to them.
PRESBYTERIAN MARRIAGES.
Colonel RAWDON hoped he should be excused for
asking a question on a subject in which a large portion
of the co►mmmut took a great interest, which was
connected with the great cause of civil and religious
liberty.—(Cries of " Order, order.").
The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member might ask
any questions he liked, but he must not introduce them
by any observations.
Colonel RAWDON would ask, first, if the Govern.
ment had prepared any Bill to legalise the Presbyterian
mixed marriages in Ireland ; and, secondly, if it were
the intention of the Government to introduce a clause
into such Bill, bestowing on the Presbyterian ministers
of Ireland the right Which they had so long exercised, of
uniting in marriage the members of their order.
Lord ELIOT could only reply, as his Right Hon. Friend
at the head of the Government had replied to a similar
question, on a former occasion, namely, that it was the
intention of the Government to introduce a Bill
without delay, legalising the marriages referred
to, but that they must take time to consider the
prospective measures to be adopted with regard to such
marriages far the future. He would add that directions
had been given for the drawing of the Bill which would be
introduced as speedily as possible.
SPANISH AFFAIRS.

Colonel FOX wished to ask if it was true that the noto-
rious Cabrera had had permission from the King of the
French to leave Calvados.in the south of France, to come
to Paris ? He had been informed that Cabrera was either
now in Parise or was expected there daily. This report
had caused considerable alarm in the minds of many Spa-
niards in this country. He had also understood that a
committee of disaffected Spaniards was about to be formed
in this country, for the purpose of aiding in the organi-
zation of a revolutiottal movement in Spain, which it
was intended simuktbrea out in April.
air It PEEL had received no official announcement
of the arrival of Cabrera in Paris ; but the same report

_..y. :: ~LS:d:.

which had reached the Hon. Gentleman had also reached
the Go' ernment ; therefore he could not po,itively state
that Cabrera was not in Paris. With regard to any attempt
to organize a revolution in Spain by a committee in this
-country, he had no hesitation—
ROYAL COMMISSION.
The Right Hon. Baronet was interrupted by the ap-
pearance of the Black Rod, who summoned the House
to attend at the Bar of the House of Peers, to hear her
Majesty's assent given by Commission to a certain Bill.
The SPEAKER then left the' House to go up to the
House of Peers, attended by several Hon. Members.
The SPEAKER shortly after returned, and informed
the House that the Royal Assent had been given by com-
mission to a certain Bill (for which see Lord's Report.)
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that he had been inter-
rupted by the necessary departure of the Chairman
from the House, in answering the questions put by
the Gallant Officer opposite. The Gallant Officer
had asked him whether or not her Majesty's Go-
vernment were aware of the arrival, or of the ex-
pected arrival, of Cabrera in Paris. To that question
he (Sir Robert Peel) had answered that they
had received no information of the arrival, or
with respect to the probable arrival of Cabrera in
that capital. But the same report which had reached
the Gallant Officer had reached the Government, that
Cabrera had arrived, or was expected to arrive,
in Paris. But what his object was, if he had ar-
rived, it was impossible for them to say. As the Ho-
nourable and Gallant Colonel had referred to conspi-
racies he (Sir R. Peel) could only express his earnest
hope that the Spanish Government, supported by the great
body of the Spanish people, would have strength and
energy enough to resist any such machinations.
Colonel FOX begged to add that his principal object
in putting the question was to give the Right
Baronet an opportunity of refuting a report stating that
the French Government lent itself to such proceedings.
Sir R. PEEL desired it to be understood that he did
not in the slightest degree allude to the French Go-
vernment as being connected with such proceedings ; in
fact, he referred to an alleged conspiracy being commenced
in this or some other country ' • and he repeated that the
Spanish Government would have power enough to put
down such proceedings.

- EASTERN AFFAIRS.
Sir C. NAPIER asked whether the Right Hon.
Baronet would give directions for search to be made
at our embassay at Constantinople, for those papers al-
ready asked for, respecting the instructions given to our
officers with regard to the retreat of the Egyptian troops?
SIR. R. PEEL said he would give those directions,
but if the papers should be forthcoming he. would use
his own discretion as to bringing them forward.
Sir C. NAPIER asked then if the Right Hon. Bart.
would produce to the House a copy of the instructions
given to Sir R. Stopford.—(Hear, and laughter.)
Sir R. PEEL would decline for the present.
Mr. MURPHY gave notice that on Monday next he
would call the attention of the House to the deten-
tion and imprisonment of certain of her Majesty's
subjects by the authorities of Central America.
Also, that he would move for copies of any
correspondence that might have taken place on the
part of her Majesty's Government on the subject,
and also for any despatches which the Government might
have received from Sir Charles Metcalf.
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN gave notice that
move, when the House went into Cou,- Laie should
,Ittee upon the
subject of the Corn-laws, thlo- British colonial
wheat be admitted into this - all
Sir CHARLES N country' at a duty of ls.
House went
-'VIER gave notice that when the
i",-Committee on the ia Bisho
Bill, h
.nould. move, as an amendment,West thatln two be sub-
ps
uted for three.
_ _

Mr. 11. BERKELEY gave notice, that at the first
opportunity he would call the attention of the House to
the present state of property in British Guiana. If means
were furnished for facilitating the importation of free la-
bour, and that means were taken for bettering the condi-
tion, both spiritual and temporal, of free labourers in that
country, the merchants of Guiana would not fear compe-
tition with those of any other part of the world.
SCOTTISH JUDGES.
The LORD ADVOCATE trusted the House would
bear with him while he trespassed for a short time upon
its attention. It would be in the recollection of Hon.
Members, that in the course of a debate which had
taken place last week, a statement had been made
by the Right Hon. Gentleman, the late Under Secretary
of State for the Home Department, that the late Lord
President of the Court ofession in Scotland had not,
doting the last two years, performed the duties of that im-
poltant branch of the Courts of Scotland. That statement
was so inconsistent with the real facts of the case, that he
(the Lord Advocate) considered the Right lion Gen-
tleman had made it upon erroneous foundation.
He could state with confidence that the Lord President,
r down to the .close of the Civil Court, had regularly
discharged the duties of his office. The Honourable
Gentleman had moved for a return of the number
of jury cases during a certain period ; and in the course
o: the discussion strong reference was made to him (the
Lord Advocate), and allusions were made of no very de-
licate or pleasing character. lie had felt considerable diffi-
culty as to the course which he ought under these circum-
stances to pursue. He might have stated that the re-
fusal to grant the return was the act solely of her Ma-
jesty's Government. lie wished, however, to give every
publicity to the facts. Indeed nothing could be so foolish
as to attempt secrecy with respect to a document which
might be obtained from the attorney's clerks. his at-
tendance in that place rendered it impossible for him to
speak at the time of the discussion from his own personal
information; and he felt that it would be better to remain
perfectly silent, than' to make what might appear to be
a qualified statement. He had, therefore, written imme-
diately after the debate to Lord Chief Justice Clerk ;
and his Lordship, on receiving his letter, had taken to
his councils the Solicitor-General of gcotland. He
would read to the House that part of the reply which ap-
peared
to him, to bear most immediately upon the question.
The Chief Justice Clerk said, as to the statements he (the
Lord Advocate) had made, that the late Lord President had
presided at all the Jury trials up to July last, and
had remained in Court in one of those cat e; until near
nine o'clock at night, and was out next day at 10, for the
next trial, not one whit the worse for his attendance so
late on the evening before. It so happened (said the Chief
Justice Clerk), that after the Solicitor-General and
he had taxed their memories with reference
to the Lord President's attendance in his Court,
they recollected that there were no more than
three cases in which any one had sat for the late
Lord President since Nov. 1830.—(Cheers from the
Ministerial benches.) Such was the statement he (the
Lord Advocate) had received from such very high autho-
rity as the Lord Chief Justice of Scotland. He did
not impute anything unkind to the Honourable Gen-
tleman opposite, but he seemed so urgent in the
observations he had made that he (the Lord
Advocate) was determined to take measures
to ascertain how the facts with reference to the matter
really were, and he thought it right to lay those
statements before the House.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WAKLEY observed that the discussion arose
the other night upon the motion proposed by the colleagues
of the Learned Lord opposite (the Lord Advocate) ;
he had no right to blame his (Mr. Wakley's) side of the
House—(Laughter)—for the acts that' gave rise to the dis-
cussion were those of the Noble Lord's colleagues.
If the motion was granted there might be no blame at all
attached to the Lord President.—(Hear, hear.) How-
ever, the statements made by the Lord Advocate were,
as far he (Mr. Wakley) was concerned, perfectly satis-
factory.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROEBUCK said he would take all the blame to
himself with reference to the observations which were
called indelicate by the Hon. and Learned Lord
opposite. He objected to the refusal of the
motion upon constitutional
.grounds, for he thought
justice should be above suspicion, and if the motion was
refused he felt that suspicion would rest not only upon
the Lord President, but upon Honourable Gentlemen
opposite. The explanation then made should have been
made before.

Mr. HENEAGE made some observations which were
inaudible in the gallery.
Mr. VERNON SMITH said that he should defer his
motion for " a copy of the Order in Council relating to the
emigration of Hill Coolies to the Mauritius, recently is-
sued ; and any correspondence relating thereto since
October, 1841," till Tuesday, the Ist of March.
ADJOURNED DEBATE ON THE CORN-LAWS.
The Order of the Day for resuming the adjourned
debate on the Corn-laws having been read,
Sir W. CLAY rose, but the great noise occasioned
by Hon. Members leaving the House, did not enable us to
catch the commencement of the Hon. Gentleman's address.
He at once confessed his want of ability to reply to the
speech with which the Hon. Member for Knaresborough
closed the debate last night, and if he had
the ability, he should not have the inclina-
tion to do so.—(Hear.) He should be unwilling
to do any thing to damp the ardour of the Hon. Gentle-
man, or to check the career which was likely to afford so
much amusement to the House, and to debar the party
to which he had the honour to belong, from the
enjoyment of that amusement. He turned with
satisfaction to the speech of the Right Honourable
Gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade,
and he (Sir W. Clay) was quite sure he was only ex-
pressing the sense of the House when he said, that all
who heard it could not fail to hare appreciated the
ability, as well as the courtesy and moderation, which
characterised it throughout.— (Cries of " Hear, hear.")
Before, however, he (Sir W. Clay) attempted to reply to
the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman, ho would briefly
advert to the speech of the Right Hon. Member for Tam-
Worth, in which he introduced his motion to the House.
The Right Hon. Baronet had omitted all reference to
the influence of the Corn-laws upon the currency, al-
though he could, not but know that amongst
all who were acquainted with that subject, whe-
ther in theory or in practice—whether by com-
mercial experience, or by the laborious applica-
tion of profound thought to its investigation—there
existed an universal opinion that the Corn-laws:did affect
the currency, and produced those fluctuations, those alter-
nations of expansion and contraction, the effect of which
produced such extensive suffering. He must know that

such was the universal opinion, and he (Sir W. Clay)
must think it was his duty to show either that so pre-
. alent an opinion was unfounded, or that the
measure proposed would remove the tendency.—(Hear.)
But in the elaborate speech which occupied three
hours, the Right Honourable Baronet did not
make the least allusion whatever to that subject, or
to the disturbance which the Corn-laws occasioned in
our commercial relations with other countries, Now
it certainly did appear to him (Sir William Clay),
that the silence of the Right Honourable Baronet on
such a point, and his abstaining from denying that the
Corn-laws had an effect more or less in producing the
languishing state of our commerce,was not without some
significance. Indeed, he thought that silence spoke
volumes. But there were still more extraordinary
' omissions in that speech.—(Hear, hear, hear.) it
was an extraordinary omission to make no reference
whatever to the reports to Government upon this sub-
ject. There was a gentleman sent out by the Govern-
ment itself to obtain practical information as to the
comparative cost of the article in different coun-
tries. Before the meeting of Parliament, many
rumours were spread abroad as to the probable result
of that inquiry upon the plans of the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet. The adherents of the Right Hon. Baronet were
exulting and exclaiming,- " You see that Sir Robert Peel
will not take a matter in hand without proper information,
He would not bring forward any crude or un-
digested measures—he would ground his pro-
position on accurate information. He had sent
fer accurate information." Such were the opinions
of the people out of doors with respect to 'the
measure, which they hoped from the Right Honourable
Baronet. (Hear, hear.) The House also ex-
pected that his measure - would be grounded on
the details he had so obtained, regarding the protective
duty he meant to give to the landed interest.—(Hear,
hear.) But so far from that being the case, the iti'int
Honourable Gentleman never alluded iu his speech
to Mr. Meek's report, and the public would never have
heard of its existence if it ha:1'11ot been laid on the
table. It did appear to him that the Right Hon..
Gentleman made a careful and well-digested speech.
Looking to his great ability, and his acknow-
ledged skill in debate, it was impossible not to feel
that those points which he (Sir R. Peel) must
allow to have been important, were designedly
omitted by him, knowing that they were incapable of
being used for his assistance. Ile would now address
himself to the speech of the Right Hon. the
Vice-President of the 11-LA of Trade. - That
Right Hon. Gentleman t.,1 not follow the example of the
Right Hon. pare:let, but he boldly faced.those difficulties
from 1.:"...tCh the Right Hon. Baronet had shrunk.
lit may be doubted. however, whether the discre=
tion of the Right Honourable Baronet was not
better than the courage of the Right Hon. Gentleman
the Vice-President of the Board of Trade. That Right
lion. Gentleman assumed throughout his speech, that the
question was one between a fixed duty and a sliding scale.
No doubt the question between his Noble Friend (Lord
John Russell) and the Right Honourable Gentleman
might be fairly said to be one between a fixed duty
and:a sliding scale ; but the Right Hon. Gentleman had
no authority to assume it to be a question between
a sliding scale and a fixed duty of Bs. His,
Noble Friend had carefully abstained from stating
the exact amount of duty—he only advocated the
principle of a fixed duty. The Noble Lord said
he conceived the agricultural interest entitled to
protection for the exclusive burthens to which it
was subjected ; and he also advocated a fixed duty
to prevent too great and too sudden an alteratioati,
If a fixed duty were calculated upon the burden,
borne peculiarly by the landed interests, then_ the
duty ought to be much lower than Bs. Mr. r.bulloch
had calculated that a ss. duty would be
1837, when he (Sir W. Clay) liut) ' e:officient. • In
brought forward
a motion for the repeal Of ik existing - Corn-law,
he had been anxious te. 1110.
".
fixed duty, and he tout 'arguments to justify a ss.
l'3 .. assure the Right Hon. Gentle-
man that he coy'
..0 not on the score of any peculiar
burdens b°l -..e by the landed interest, find any
argume,-
-.Ls
to justify. it. If the imposition of a duty
NW' --
....e grounded on the necessity of preventing too sudden
a revulsion among the agriculturists,then it would bemore
capable of defence. lie felt bound to say that in his
opinion a fixed duty could not be justified on the
grounds of any:peculiar burdens borne by the landed in-
terest. There was one feature throughout the arguments,
both of the Right Honourable Baronet and of the
Right Ron. Gentleman who had spoken last night,
which had peculiarly struck him (Sir W. Clay). It was
that both the Right Hon. Gentlemen had strenuously
denied that the Corn-laws had caused the present
distress in the manufacturing districts, and they both
frequently and emphatically declared that they did
not anticipate that the proposed alterations would
tend materially to alleviate the distress. They had
so frequently made the statement that he thought
their agricultural supporters might well ask them why
they interfered with the existing law at all.—(Cheers.)
He (Sir W. Clay) might perhaps not be prepared
altogether to deny that, perhaps, in some instances, too
much had been attributed to the Corn-laws as the
cause of the existing distress ; but if it was
meant to be contended that the Corn-law had not
any affect in producing the existing distress, that was a
proposition which he was by no means prepared to admit.
(The Hon. Gent. then read extracts of evidence taken be-
fore the Agricultural Committee, as we understood, show-
ing that the present Corn-laws tended in a very great
degree to bring about a decrease in the growth
of corn.) With respect to the arguments
of the Right lion. Gentleman opposite (Mr. W. E.
Gladstone) in reference to the growth of rye, if he
(Sir W. Clay) were disposed to take any one thing
as an illustration of his own view of the case, it
would be the instance cited by the Right Hon. Gentle-
man. l le (Sir W. Clay) would show them, fiom a case in
Prussia, where no stimulus 1% as der.ved from any corn
law, that it was merely a question of supply
and demand, and that the fluctuation in the
price of rye was as great as in the price of
wheat. This was precisely the case of those who
thought with him (Sir W. Clay) on this subject—the more
extended the circle was from which the supply Was
drawn the more were the chances of invalidating the
supply diminished. For instance, a field was more uncertain
in its produce than a farm ; a farm was more uncertain
than a county, a county than a kingdom, a kingdom than
a continent, and even a continent would be more un-
certain than the whole world. If then, under a free
trade, they committed themselves to the system of de-
riving their supply from every country and variety of cli-
mate and soil, precisely in the same degree did they increase
the steadiness of that supply, and diminish the chancey
of fluctuation. The next point taken up by the Hon.
Gentleman was an attempt to show that the existing
Corn-laws—for he had expressly referred to them—ha
been falsely charged with having an injurious effect.
He would state the Hon. Getleman's argument, and he
believed it to be this, that at present two millions of corn
were annually, imported, and that, taking the average
amount of their" home produce, and the chances of bad
harvests, no less amount of importation of foreign pro-
duce could be reckoned on ; he could not, therefore, see
but the same effect would be produced on the currency
under a free trade as at present. Now, the fallacy into.
which the Hon. Gentleman had fallen was this—that
he had taken no notice of the very great difference
between the creation of a market and the ext6n-
sion of one.—(llear, hear.) At present, if' they
wanted corn, and went suddenly to any corn producing
country—say the fertile valley of the Mississippi, they
found no demand for their manufactures, nor in-
clination to take them ; there were neither dealers,
nor store-keepers, nor agents, nor any of the ma-
chinery without which their manufactures could
be distributed.—(Hear, hear.) They were all essential
to a market, and a market could not exist without them.
It was in vain to expect to prevail upon such a people in
a moment to give corn for their manufactures. But let
them reverse the case, and ask what this district would
have been if they had been doing a regular trade with
them to the amount of a million quarters a year ?
When the period came that required an increase
in their trade, there would be a better opportunity
of doing so in consequence of the American pur-
chaser having acquired the habit of enjoying their
manufactures, and thus creating a demand for then.
He confessed that, to his mind, this was absolutely con-
clusive against the argument of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman. Now, the Bight Hon. Gentleman had attempted
to show that, under the law proposed by the Right Hon.
Baronet, there could really be as free trade as there
could possibly be with a fixed duty. It was absolutely
essential to the very existence of a mutually beneficial
trade that there should be a free interchange and com-
munication between the merchants of either country,
Ile really believed that out of • Parliament the questirin
had in a great measure ceased to be a political.'one.
This was the case to a great extent is the large borough
which he (Sir W. Clay) had the honour to represent;
there those who, in other respects win supporters
of the Government, regarded the sliding scale as a sys-
tem highly injurious to the country,--(Hear, hear.) If
his Noble Friend and his colleagues could have
carried their Bill of last year they might have
gone to the people of foreign countries, and have
said, "Bring us that corn which you can produce more
cheaply than ourselves, and we will give you in return
those articles which we can produce more advantageously
than you." " Come when you will," they might have
said, ' our ports are at all times open to you ; at all times
will you be able to calculate the price at which you can
supply our people with food ; at no time will we entrap or
deceive you by fiscal regulations ruinous to your enter-
prises, and the fluctuations in which you can neither foresee
nor prevent." Such was the language which his Noble
Friend and his colleague. might have used, could they
have prevailed upon Parliament to accede to the mea-
sure. But could the Right H')n. Baronet and his Gc.-
vernment do so ?—(Hear.) lie thought they could not.
He thought the Government should not invite the
people ovithe country to engage in a gambling, a destruc-
tive, and a ruinous commercial intercourse.—(Hear,
hear.) The people of this country know of the existence
of food in abundance, which their own industry might
secure for them if they were permitted to get it; they know,'
that the harvests of the whole world are at their COA'
mend, if their own Government would permit theft' to
avail themselves of them.—(Hear, hear.) Instead of
that, although they stand in need of food, they fsre to be
restricted in their supplies, and the Government interposes
and tells the people though they do vvarit food, they
shall not be permitted to get it unless certain enormous
.
Bart. then, na,
duties are extracted from them. ("e "on. detaii off
a very inaudible tone of voice, entered into a _
the measure proposed by Sir R. 'eel, and showe,d.‘tadY.
and then proceeded in a very
r es p audible
ectiv e 'liyn
ptrhoe_
that the duties he proposed were hlogwh and
wn prohibitory;
roonfm,irooircye:
gwahlilcehry,retnodeoermedpahreisthrieemdairkes
islet scarcely
Honourable Gentleman had said that his system
officecururendeerotnaceiabt:
posed by Sir Robert Peel and Lord John Russell.) The.
Right Honou
supply of corn when the price rose.
wasoutlod
the
erture the people withweso
twice
ic6eßsi..notrhe7Ocso.
u,
ras lel do
fifa thyaetar,tohrte
(Sir William Cla
e,
).
should prefer the plan of the Noble Lord, though y
h

id not altogether approve of that, which inflicted
some little torture, when compared with that
imposed by the measure of that Right_Hon, Member.
Neither the Right Hon. Baronet, nor the Right Hon.
Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade,
had alluded to the grounds upon which they might
justify a protective duty. Neither of them made any
attempt to explain the reasons for imposing such a duty.
They talked of the burthens on agriculture, whilst they
absolutely shunned entering into a statement of those
burthens. They talked of the comparative cost
of producing corn here and abroad, but they abstained
from entering into details upon the subject. They had
sent for information from abroad, which was no doubt
very important, but they had made no use of that infor-
mation ; and, at the moment after having heard the
speeches of the Right Honourable Baronet and
the Right Honourable Gentleman, he confessed
himself utterly ignorant of the principle
upon which they justified their protective system. They
bad not explained in the slightest way what were the
grounds upon which they assumed one scale of duty
rather than another. The only thing approaching to an
explanation given by the Ilightlion. Baronet was this,
that he found the average price under the existing law
was 565. per quarter for wheat, and he had accomodated
his new scale to the purpose of endeavouring to secure
that price. That was certainly a most extraordinary
answer to the people of England.—(Hear, hear.) They
complained of the existing laws, they stated the suffer-
ings which they were enduring from those laws, and they
complained of the high price of corn to which they gave
rise. And what was the answer of the Right Hon. Bart. ?
He said lie would introduce a newmeasure, that he would
bring forward a modification of the Corn-laws, and in
rsTly to the prayers •f the people, be told them that he
woulci endeavour, by his new law, to maintain yet more
steady the paees which had obtained under the former
-
system, which they detested. In fact he could not,look-
ins, at that measure with they eatest care and anxiety, he
coulda not see any other motive for its introduction than
a desire to relieve the agricultural interest from some
of the gratuitous obloquy which the absurdity of the
existing law caused to be thrown upon them. It would
do nothing to lower the prices of the food of the people—
the authorliiriiselfof the measure, the Right Ilon.Baronet,
shrunk from holding out the very slightest hope that it
would afford aay relief to the public. lie abstained
from encouraging ally_ expectation that it would revive
the languishing trade of the .::.`_`niltrY, or give employment
)
to the unemployed millions.— -(lte,s; Vas that, then,
),_
the measure which, after six moans' nreparation,
after announcing a change in the Corn-laws at the
Speech from the Throne, after admitting . the un-
exampled distress in the nation, and the unexampled
fortitude with which it was borne—was that the measure
which `the Right lion. Baronet thought proper to submit
to Parliament?—(Hear,' hear.) Deeply did he deplore
that such was the determination of the Right Hon. Gent.
But if he came there as a party man he should
re;oice in the determination, because he was per-
fectly- satisfied it would seal the fate of the
Right lissnourable Gentleman's Administration. The
Right Mu. Baronet could no doubt pass his Bill,
but it was beyond his power, or the power of any Go-
vet-rinse:at, to maintain the present system of the Corn-
laws or aria/ modification.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.)
Not only was it beyond his power, - but it was
beyond the power •'(;.f legislation. The people of Eng-
land had taken the question up, and like all questions
which they took up earnestly, aitl with good will, they
would settle 'it according to their own pleasure... Five •
aels.
-s ago, he (Sir William Clay) brought forward
a mot,„..a for the repeal of the Corn-laws, and he had
scarcely ate; supporters even among his own consti-
tuency. He wi.s: most glad he had given up the ques-
tion, and that it Lilt: fallen into the hands of the Hon,
Member for Wolverluitirp.."' who agitated the measure
with such ability and perseverat,...: e. But what was the state
e p
of the question now ? Ile believed this. t last year th
hat eople
was
would have been content with the • ref.. `l3 thanks,
proposed, and would have accepted it wits.'
but lie did not think that they would be content with it -.7°w'
He believed the people would not be content now with a
fixed duty, and that their demands would always in-
crease in proportion to the time they were refused.—
(Cheers.) Ile did not believe that the repeal of the Corn-
laws would altogether remedy this. He had not now
the same hope which he entertained five years ago, that
thl ;repeal
„pfahe Corn-laws would effect all the benefit
`he anticipated at that time. • At the same time,
he believed that the repeal of the present
system, and the restoration of a free trade,
would do much to improve the prospects of the country.
The repeal of those laws would also remove the differences
which existed between large classes of the com-
mvnity:—(Hear.) The ground on which lie stood
was as insecure as the sand which was washed by the
mouutain tide ; and, in his opinion, if the Bill passed,
though the settlement of the question might
be delayed, they would at length be compelled
very soon to re.cind the Bill.—(Hear.) Against the
storm of public opinion they could not contend, and
they should he careful that together with, the Corn-
law, many other things might not also be swept away.
Capt. HAMILTON said lie should not feel that he
had performed his duty to those who sent him to repre-
sent them in Parliament if he did not trespass for a short
time on the attention of the House. He supposed that
every Member who addressed the House on the subject
would agree with him that the adoption of any mea-
sure with respect to the Corn-laws was a matter
•of: vital importance to all classes. On the one
hand, they had -the whole manufacturing interest
of this country clamorous for a total repeal of the
Corit-laws. On the other hand, there was a consider-
able party,. headed by the Noble Lord who opened the
debate last night, who were in favour of a fixed duty
on corn ; but they were in a minority compared with
those who argued for a total repeal ; while he thought
that he ;might state, without fear of contradiction, that
-the agricultural body generally, and certainly that por-
tion of it which called itself Conservative, were in favour
of the principle of a sliding scale.—(Hear, hear.)
'On the present occasion he' should not endeavour to.
'combat the arguments with which the Noble Lord had
eprumeneed that debate in favour of a fixed duty, and
against the measure of the Honourable Ba-
rtinet, and of those who followed the Noble Lord,
had opposed the proposal of the Government. But
he would confine himself more particularly to the scale
of duties proposed by her Majesty's Government. He
abstained from combating the arguments which had
been made use of by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, either
in favour of a fixed duty, or against any duty whatever,
from a feeling that those arguments were unworthy the
attention of Gentlemen in that House. Far from it.
Those opinions were, entertained by too many men of
high standing, and station, and attainments in this
country, not to be entitled to the greatest respect, and to
the earnest attention of every Member.—(Hear, hear.)
Bet as, on a former occasion, he had expressed his
conviction that the principle of a sliding scale must be
maintained, and as he had not seen or heard anything
since to induce him to alter that opinion, he thought lie
should best consult the feelings of the house, as well as
of those who had sent him to represent their interests
in that House, if he confined himself to the consideration
of the scale of duties proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet.
Perhaps he might be allowed to state, that since the pre-
sent measure was brought forward by the Right Ho-
nourable Baronet, he (Captain Hamilton) had at-
tended an important meeting of the farmers, held
'at Aylesbury, on the subject of the Corn-laws,
and the . proposed scheme of the Government.
He (Captain Hamilton) was not the representative
of the opinions of any body of men, however respec-
table that body might be ; but he thought it would be
admitted that when a measure was brought forward in
_Parliament which affected their interests, he (Captain
Hamilton) might shortly state to the House the opinions
of those gentlemen, more particularly as that meeting
was called by the Agricultural Society of that county
(Buckinghamshire). He would read to the House
the resolution to which the meeting he had alluded had
come to. It was as follows :—" That it is".the opinion
of this meeting that the farmer should be protected to
the amount of 605., while the proposed scale of Sir
Robert Peel extends that protection only to 555. They
consider that at 555. the duty should be 205., so that,
when the average price was 60s. the duty should be
155." The Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) in his speech
the other night, had said, as he (Captain Hamilton) un-
derstood him, that the proposed alteration in the scale
would hart no effect but in making the measure the more
stringeet. He wished the Noble Lord had been at the
;for
meeting he attended
composed bad conic to the conclusion that the effect, of
. the Right lion. Baronet's measure would be to reduce
.Itlte tanner's capital at least 20 per emit. They consi-
der,Al the proposed duty, between 555. and 605., not an
• adequate protection. They liked the graduating scale of
-the Right Hon. Baronet, but they did not like his
figure
thought they ought to have more protec-
liOn, and he' (Captain Hamilton) concurred in the
opinion. lie conceived they might have more pro-
tection without anr injury to the consumer.
But when he stated this, be should say that those who
attended the meeting thought that the duty should not
be highes than 20s. Those farmers also think that the duty
proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet might be a protec-
tion to good land, but would fail to afford protec-
tion to heavy and clayey soils and inferior land.
The question which he put, as their representative, was
.whether the scale proposed by the lion. Baronet was or
was not a sufficient protection. Now there had been a
notice given to that House of an amendment to the
scale or the Right Honourable Baronet. That scale
certainly afforded a protection between the figures
he had named from 555. to 605., which the scale of
the Houourable Baronet did not; but then the Hon. Mem-
ber for North Lincoln commences his scale with 255. which
in his opinion was decidedly objectionable.
ectionable. He wished
to be clearly understood As thinking that the scale of
the Hon. Member for North' Lincoln was approved of as
superior in that particular point of protection to the
scale of the Right Honourable Baronet. If lie
were speaking only - • behalf,
on his own lie
might give his Approval to the amendment
.of the Hon. Member and his vote on the general ques-
eon to the Right lion. Baronet. He might take that
ceacse, but it was not the course he intended to follow.
He NI not wish to take any indirect means of arriving
at the esunplete end lie wished eventually to arrive at.
He pre:creed at once taking that which he thought pre-
ferable on to great question as a whole, not looking at any
particular part. After the meeting of Parliament, and
.before he, or any Member not in the councils of her
• Majesty; knew avhat was about to be proposed, he made
it his duty to consult several gentlemen, who are prac-
tical ' farmers, as to the scale of duty which
they thought would be a sufficient protection to the
British farmer. lie had an opportunity of seeing the
stale, which was drawn up by Mr. Drews, and which he
believed had been forwarded to the Right Hon. Baronet.
'that scale" he found, differed very little from the kale
Aropesed by the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Hear, hear.)
t commenced with 525., but the gentleman who
forwarded that scale contended likewise that a certain
-"xeu amount of duty ought to be maintained.
'Front the statement heliadneready made, it would be
seen that there was but little difference between the scale

shown to him and the scale of the Right Hon. Baronet;
but in his (the Gallant Captain's) opinion, some point
ought to be taken between 555. and 60s. However, he
thought that the agriculture of thecountry was calledupon
to make some such sacrifice to the trade and commerce
of the country as that proposed.—(Laughter, and hear.)
Hon. Gentlemen might laugh, but was 20 per cent. no
sacrifice ? The agriculturists were eminent for
their loyalty, and he was sure the appeal now
madc to them would not be. made in vain.
Therefore, although he thought. that the seheme of the
lion. Member for Lincolnshire was, perhaps, more fair
to the agricultural interest than that which had been
proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet, yet he should not
oppose the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet by supporting
any amendment, because he felt satisfied that by taking
such a course be should be 'inflicting an injury
on those he wished to serve.—(Hear, hear.) The
Right Honourable Baronet possessed information
on the subject, which it could not be supposed was in
the possession of any individual Member; and he (Cap-
tain Hamilton) felt that, placed in the situation in which
the Right Hon. Baronet was, he could not avoid con-
ceding some such measure to the manufacturing inte-
rest. He (Captain Hamilton) did not deny the exist-
ence of distress in the manufacturing districts, but he
emphatically denied that such distress was owing to
the Corn-laws. Of course while distress existed,
any increase in the price of provisions would
tend to aggravate that distress, but he again
denied most emphatically that the Corn-laws had
caused the distress. It had been caused by oVertrading,
by machinery,' and by a variety of other causes, to which
allusion had been made by the Right Hon. Gentleman
the First Lord of the Treasury in bringing forward the
question. With these views on the question he felt it his
duty, not only as a Member of Parliament legislating
for the whole country, but as the representative of his
own particular constituency, whose interests were vitally
affected by this question, to support the proposition of
the Right lion. Baronet.—(Cheers.)
Mr. CHILDERS congratulated the lion. Gentleman
who had last spoken on having such placable consti-
tuents.—(A laugh.) The Hon. (sentleman admitted that
the Government proposition was one which would mate-
rially affect their interests—that it was one to which
they were opposed—that it was one of which he himself
could not approve, and yet he said he would vote for
it.—(Cheers and laughter.) He (Mr. Childers) had
listened with great gratification to much of the speeches
both of the Right lion. Baronet the First Lord of the
Treasury, and of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Presi-
dent of the Board of Trade. There was one part parti-
cularly of the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the First
Lord of the Treasury, which would go to destroy
several delusions which had previously existed
throughout the country. He alluded more particularly
to what the Right Hon. Gentleman had said as to the
system of averages ; before that speech had been ut-
tered, he-had hardly ever met with any Member of the
ConserVative party who had not said that the system
of taking the averages must be altered, that they must
be- taken from the sellers, and not from the buyers.
lie (Mr. Childers) had since met with many Conserva-
tives, and they all agreed with the Right ilon. Baronet
that the buyers, and not the sellers, ought to be the per-
sons to make the averages.—(A laugh.) But to, come
to the immediate question before them, viz. the advan-
tage or disadvantage of the new scale.. He (Mr.
Childers) could see very little advantage, as
compared with the old one. He thought that
the past principle of continuing the averages up
to the higher prices of 705., 715., 725., and 735., would,
lie feared, practically cause very little diminution of the
prices at which corn would come into this country.
He had looked carefully over the returns lately
made to the House of the quantity of corn
which had been entered during the last 20 years, and
he thought that almost constantly it had been entered
only when corn had reached a great price, or at least
it had been entered at the higher price of duty when
corn was lower, so as to be of little advantage to the
consumer. He would try to explain his meaning on
the subject. A certain quantity of corn at a duty
' es. Bd., Gs, Bd., and 2s. Bd. had been admitted, but
'4, been admitted ? Not when the prices were
how hand luty was falling, which would have been
rising an
a relief to the -do "try, but when the prices were
falling and the duty'w.:2 rising
a; at.
eactiivanes,
.c
con
se,quently,,: when it ,was shoes=:,• 'the Additional
enough -in the ccientik, and
.bt„, the pi:ices
supply would be of little advantage ; but st
of corn were falling, and the duty rising very little,
orn
had been introduced. Look first, for example, at the
10s. Bd., from 1829 up to the present year ; the quantity
introduced when the prices were rising and the duty falling
was only 17,000 quarters,whilst there was imported during
the same period, when prices were falling and the duty
rising, no less than 789,000 quarters.—(Hear, hear.)
Then if they took the 6s. Bd. duty they would find
the same thing ; from the year 1839 up to the present ) ear
the quantity of corn that had been admitted when prices
were rising, and the duty falling, was only 30,000
quarters; whilst during the same period, when
prices were falling, and the duty rising, no less a quantity
than 1,892,000 quarters had been admitted.—(hear.)
That must occur in the scheme proposed by the Right
Hon. Gentleman. Suppose a man had twenty thousand
quarters of wheat at 60s. a quarter, he knew that for
every shilling that it increased in price lie would
on the entire of that quantity gain 1,000/. For
instance, it was well known that the pressure generally
occurred in this country in the summer seasons, before
the harvests came in—the farmer knew the price, and
what the duty would be, and whether he could afford to
hold over that corn until summer ; therefore, the pro-
posed scheme was a direct inducement to speeulate—be-
sides he ( Mr.Cliilders)leared that the present state of duty
would operate against the consumer just as much as
the old regulation. Generally speaking, it would be
linind, upon the best calculations, that unless they came
down to 2s. Bd., or even one shilling, importation was not
stopped. The prices of corn varied very much each
year—sometimes they went up and again they fell during
the same year, 'consequently creating, injury to the con-
sumer and to the producer alternately. That was one of
the greatest injuries of the sliding scale.—(Hear, hear.)
In the papers before the- House there were constant in-
stances of its having occurred, but he would only ad-
vert to a few of them. In the year 1838, the price, in
the beginning of the year, was very low ; it ranged
from 525. to 60s. It soon began to rise, and in
August and September it was so high that
the duty lowered to Is. Then there came in
1,200,000 quarters of wheat, and then the price sank
rapidly. But in November it again rose, and on the 7th
of December the price reached 755., and the duty was .
again Is. So again the same thing occurred in 1840;
the duty sank in the same way. Now he knew that
it was an extraordinary instance that it should
have reached a duty of Is. in September, and caused
such great fluctuations and injury to the country. Such
a state of things could not have occurred under any
system but a sliding-scale. While on this subject he
would make an allusion to a case which took place in
1841. In the month of August in that year, on the
27th of that month, the price rose to 765. a quarter.
In September following 1,000,000 of quarters
of wheat were brought into the country and the prices
then rose again until on the 24th of September, when
the duty had fallen to ls. ; but what was the priee ? it
was only 635. ; the preceding week it was fils„
so that when corn was most wanted, none
could come in in consequence of the prohi-
bitory duty, whereas, shortly afterwards the duty had
fallen to Is. Two millions of quarters then came in.
Now, he thought there had been on that occasion a pure
loss to all parties. In the first place, it was clear that
there was a loss to the consumer who had not received
the corn at the low price at which it might have been
received. There was also another party very much in-
jured, namely, the speculator. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, had
said last night that the, speculators at that time
had reaped immense profits. Now he understood
quite the contrary, and that they had been
perfectly ruined. He had been informed the other day
at Wakefield that a quantity of that corn, introduced
last October, remained there unsold and unsaleable, at any
thing like the price that had been paid for it, because in
October, when it had been brought in, the duty had
been largely raised. He thought that was a pregnant
instance of the ill-working of the sliding scale, and of the
superiority of a
.fixed duty.—(Hear.) But when lie
stated that he was favourable to a fixed duty, he did not
hesitate to say that in his mind that fixed duty should be
only a step to a total repeal of the Corn-laws.—(Hear,
hear, from both sides of the House.) , lie viewed such a
result as desirable for the .country upon many accounts ;
and his only motive for not recommending the adoption of a
fixed duty at preselit was, that he feared the panic was such
that many might not be prepared for a sudden alteration.
lie believed that in an average of years, after a repeal
of the Corn-laws, prices would vary very little, if at all,
from what they were under the present system.—(Hear.)
Ile was much strengthened in that opinion by
the information afforded by the report of Mr.
Meek. He confessed he felt considerably surprised
that in the speeches from the other side of the House, lie
had heard no mention made of the Report which afforded
such a perfect account of the state of trade in foreign
countries. He believed that Mr. Jacob had formerly
been seen sent on a similar errand, and his exertions had
met with a similar return. Hon. Gentlemen who sup-
ported the agricultural interest in the House observed
at the time, that " the words were the words of Jacob,
but the hands were the hands of Esau.",—(Laughter.)
Such he imagined was probably the feeling entertained
toward Mr. Meek ; and his evidence appeared to be con-
sidered very injurious to the cause of Honourable
Gentlemen opposite. He found, from the return of Mr.
Meeks, that in Rotterdam, where free trade
prevailed, the average price of wheat was about 555.,
That was the statement of Mr. Meek. And, in
his opinion, the average price at Ostend was about 50s.
These prices were so near the English prices as to be
quite astonishing. In rich countries, like Holland
and England, where the population was so great,
there must be a large demand for, corn. The Right
Honourable Gentleman (the. Vice-President of the
Board of Trade) had said that because two millions
of quarters were imported from abroad, the English
production would be reduced two millions. lie did
not believe such would be the case.—(Hear, hear.) Was
nothins, to be allowed for increased consumption ?
(bear, hear.) He belieVed the surest means of increas-
ing the wealth of a country would be to increase its im-
ports.—(Hear.)' Another point of view, and it would ap-
pear to many a novel one, which he took of the pre-
sent Corn-law was, that the principle of monopoly which
they had seen to be so injurious in all other cases would
also operate injuriously against the farmers of the
country.—(Hear, hear.) He believed if the Corn-laws
were repealed the farmers would be more anxious than
they were to improve the productive capabilities of their
farms. He remembered with respect to the silk trade,
that while it w;IS protected by monopoly, old and almost
useless machinery was employed, but when the pro-
tection was lowered, machinery of a better description
was introduced.' He considered the same" result
would be the consequence in their farming system
if the Corn-laws were repealed, and he was

the more strengthened in this opinion, because in '
Scotland, where the best system of farming prevailed,
the agriculturists were not unfavourable to an
alteration of . the Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear, hear.)
The causes of the superiority of the Scotch farms, were
their great extent, and the system of leases. Under the
system which prevailed in this country, a farmer would not
however good might be his landlord, lay out his money
in the same manner as he would if he had the farm
upon lease. A Scotch friend had told him
of an instance in which a farmer who had
the remainder of the lease of a farm of which the rent
was 700/. a year. He had laid out 7,000/. in improve-
ments, and there were more improvements required,
which would cost about 3,000/. On the landlord consent-
ing to extend the lease for five years, the farmer made
that additional outlay. He believed if agriculture were
unprotected, both landlord and farmer would endeavour
to effect such improvements, and that the result
would be most beneficial to the country. He did not
advocate the repeal of the Corn-laws on the ground
which was relied upon by the delegates of the Anti-
Corn-law Conference, or because he believed that it
would, to any great extent, reduce the price of corn ;
but he advocated, the repeal of those laws, because he
believed they formed .a great obstacle to free trade
all over the world. He opposed those laws •on
the principles of the soundest political economy,
and because he was for removing all restrictions on
the freedom of trade. The Right Hon. Baronet had
indeed a sufficient majority to carry his measure ; but
how long would that majority last ? He predicted
that. it would last only till the next dissolution.
He trusted, and believed, that shortly the time would ar-
rive when England, instead of trusting to her Navigation-
laws and Corn-laws, and to systems of protection and
restriction, would trust to her insular situation, her
commerce, her water-mills, her steam-mills, her mind,
and her freedom.—(Cheers.)
Captain RO US, who was at first indistinct and in-
audible, was understood to say, that as this was a popu-
larity question, he had made up his mind from the mo-
ment he set foot in the House that he would speak
out upon it.—(" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) There
were three measures to choose between. There was the
proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet, that of the Noble
Lord, and of the lion. Member for Wolverhampton,
which was in petto.—(A laugh.) Now if Honourable
Gentlemen oppoette supported the former proposition
of the Noble Lord, which implied that agriculture
ought to have some protection, they would not keep
their words—they would not be the high-minded gentle
men he hid always thought them.—(Hear, hear.) They
would be good for neither God nor Devil—(Hear, and
laughter)—if they voted for the motion of the Hon.
Member for Wolverhaniptons—(Tory cheers.) There
was a Noble Lord in the other House of Parliament who
never made but one mistake in his life, and that was
when he accepted office.—(A laugh.) That Noble Lord
said that whoever proposed an alteration of the sliding-
scale would be only fit for Bedlam. Now in that, he
was happy to agree with the Noble Lord.—(Cheers and
a laugh.) For his part, he had made up his mind that
whenever God gave us a fixed succession of good
harvests, he would consent to a fixed duty.
But as long as our harvests were variable, it wou!d
be necessary to have a variable duty.—(Cheers.)
The gentlemen who sent him to Parliament were satis-
fied with the measure proposed by the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet, because they thought that it was framed on the
principle of live and let live, and on a due consideration of
the interests of the farmers, manufacturers, and working
classes. A French diplomatist said words were given to
man to conceal his thoughts, and this would appear to
be true if we referred to the speeches of the Anti-Corn-
law party, who talk with such anxiety of saving 2(1.
upon every quartern loaf for the working man ;
but to whom would this twopence go ? Would it be
into the pockets of the master or of the workman ?
(Hear, hear.) Now be would refer to the wages in
other countries where food was cheap. He did not mean
the United States, or our new colonies, which were new
countries, and where the value of labour was ex-
ceedingly high ; but take India, where there were
60,000 of our fellow-subjects, and the wages of labour were
2d. a clay. In the Valle de Plass the labourer had 10s.
it month, out of which he had to feed, clothe, and lode
himself. Look to France, where so many English fami-
lies lived—not for cheap bread, but for. cheap wages,
cheap: ediicatien, and cheap horses ; - and - it
was• thiongh"." the Continent, "as in France.
In 1795, mechanics earned 3s. a-day, and their labourers
Is. Bd. ; the price of corn then was 725. I Id. ; in 1812,
when corn was 1225., the wages were the same as they
are at ,present. Bricklayers, carpenters, joiners,
stonemasons, plumbers, painters, glaziers,'BMi'Orned..ss.'
fora day of ten hours; coachmakers made from 345. to 608.
a week ; bootmakers from 365. to Ws.; tailors from 365. to
425., when they have plenty of work,Did the House imagine
that these men, who earned from 30s. to 60s. -a-week,
eared whether they paid a penny more or a penny less
for the quartern loaf, so long as they had plenty
of work ?—(Hear.) Take one of the stonemasons—they
had their 21b. of rump steak, two pots of porter, and a
quartern of gin to keep them warm, in a day; but if the
plan which Hon. Gentlemen opposite proposed were to
come into operation, they Would have no beef, no beer,
and no gin, but bread and onions and a good suck at
the pump.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The London
tradesmen; now that rents are 30 per cent. higher than
they were thirty or forty years ago, that they pay
higher wages, and that articles which they
sell still remain at pretty nearly the ;same price ,
were in a worse situation, he thought, than
any other class ; but if they destroyed the
agriculturists they would destroy the trades-
men at the same time, because the agriculturists
were their best customers.—(Hear,, hear.) He would
go higher; lie would go to the merchant. He (Capt.Rous)
Was a captain and shipowner ; if lie went to Hamburgh
he could build a Alp fin' 2,0001., which at Hull or Liver-
pool would cost Win a,riooL, because at Hamburgli a
shipwright's wages were only Is. Bd, a day, whilst a
shipwright's wages in England were ss. The Hamburgh
man lived upon a crust of bread—his friends in
England liked to have beefsteaks. Then after the ship
was rigged at Hamburgh, he could get Prussians,
Swedes, and Norwegians, all good seamen, for 15s.
a month and rations, which would not cost more
than 3d. per diem per marl ; but if he came
to England his good fellows would want a pound of pork
or of beef, which would cost him is. a day, and besides
that, they would not go to sea under forty shillings a
month ; that made an odds of 70s. to 225. 6d. against
the English crew. The House, he was sure, must agree
with him then that he must be a very clever Captain if
he could pay his way against the Hamburgh Captain.
The stone-masons employed at the Houses of Parlia-
ment every one of them got five shillings a-day,
and if free trade was established, what would there
he to prevent three hundred Prussians, for instance,
from being brought over in their stead ?—Hear,
hear.) He (Captain Rous) was a practical man,
and clearly foresaw the effects of the measures
advocated by Hon. Gentlemen opposite. If free trade
was established, first, there would be no specie in the
banks—(Hear, hear)—and, next, the artificers and
mechanics who are now employed at ss. a day in London,
and elsewhere in England, would not get half that
amount of wages if free trade was established. Hon.
Gentlemen on the opposite side were very fond of draw-
ing comparisons between this country and foreign coun-
tries ; they had frequently referred to their relations with
America, but he (Ctipt. R.) would ask them to look at
their Ameriean friends. It was true they borrowed money,
in England, but hoie much interest did they pay for it ?
—(Hear, and laughter.) Their American friends sent
large orders to Liverpool and London, but how much of
those orders were paid ? It was not uncommon for them
(the Americans) to come over to this co untry and order '
,0001. wortliof goods from persons first setting up in trade,
one half of which was to be paid in hard- cash, and
the other half afterwards ; but there was no
instance on record when that other half was ever
paid.—(Hear, hear.) He would not troub!e the
House further, he would merely say to his Right Ho-
nourable Friend (Sir Robert Peel) that if he would only
go in the middle course, and not mind either the murmurs
of the high aristocracy, or the complaints of a de-
luded people, that Right Hon. Gentleman must re-
main In the high position he now occupied —(Cheers.)
He should not shift out of his course like a man
with one leg in the grave and the other out—(Laughter)
—but he should adhere to the interests of the country,
and care for nothing so long am he took care of her and
himself.—(Laughter, and Hear, hear.)
Mr. WILLIAMS rose amidst cries of a " New Mem-
ber." He said he should certainly comply with the call
of the House, but that he had heard the Honourable
Gentleman before ; he could not, therefore, consider him
in the light in which he seemed to be viewed
by the House.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. W.) felt some-
what different from a very large number of the people
of this country, who never expected any goad from
the present Government. He tied expected that
the Right Honourable Gentleman -at the head
of her Majesty's Government would have tfi.hen a
statesman-like view of the present difficulties in
which the trade and commerce of this coun-
try were implicated. He (Mr. W.) had expected
that the Right Hon. Baronet having on a former occasion
stated in that House that he considered the trade and
uanufactures of this country to be the foundation of its
strength, power, and greatness, he would have intro-
duced into this measure, which so deeply affected its
interests, something that would afford relief, He
(Mr. Williams) taught that the Government were
chargeable with great blame in placing
in her Majesty's mouth words which had been
the means of raising the expectations of the country,
but only had the effect of creating great disappointment.
He considered that
tp t
law.
practical
tiile
Napp ,
Ihr oeenffoetschl
effect,
nowen before
notschen thwee House
would
means different
pairnelsaietrnsge surplus of corn would be in the hands
orwrpooeturnladttihon bee
of foreign merchants, and arconsiderable quantity would
ounolta iwin,detro-
import large quantities of corn to this country.
be introduced into this country. In fact inducements
would be held out by the broker and factor in this
toaunndt rya tot ther
sfto r etihgen Torrckhianngt ,
wofhothuewould
new
'
The consequence would be-that by the low price super-
induced by the great abundance in the market,
the foreign producer would sustain a great kiss,
and, taught by his experience, in that instance,
the operation.
he would be careful not to repeat
I lis impression was that the new law and the old one
in their present working would. be found,d to be pretty
much on a par. He was in hopes from the manner in
which the question had been introduced into her Majesty's
speech that the Right Hon. Bart. would hare been in-
duced to alter his determination to abide by the slidiß
scale. He considered that the sliding scale was a
system of
levying duties on foreign corn most injurious to every.in-
terest of the country, except Jiggled proprietors.—(l.lfti!ry
hear.) He believed it would be the interest' of he
people of this country, rather than be subjeeto to the
operation of the sliding scale, to pay a duty of *,g9l.
quarter to the landed proprietors for every quarterof
corn they used.—(Hear, hear.) They would -'snve
a vast deal of wealth by it. They would then
know the extent of their loss, but he would venture to