Star.
London, England, 1830-06-22 00:00:00

sonspassate the rum producer for the loss he thus must incur
tins* the indecision and vacillation of the Government. He
won't. any that Government ought to compensate them if the enm.
•Plnuation came out of the pockets of Ministers ; but as it could only
*me out of.the pockets of the penpie it could not be assented to.
*r. DICKENSON thought the present relief absolutely regal.
sack? the West India interests
Pr. STUART said he should support the amendment of the
ti:sht hon. niemher for Liverpool, though he should have liked it
Letter had it gone the length of equalising the duties on Rast and
gt India lowans.
MANNINGr. supported the resolution of the Chancellor of
the Sxchequer, and said that the West India trade was a nursery
for our seamen, and ought therefore to receive every possible en-
souragement [The remaining observations of the hon. member
were inaudible in the gallery.]
Mr. CA3URTENAY contended that the course adopted by the'
Osaocellor of the Exchequer was the very hest which under the
e.reumstaneek could be adopted, for no one would think his right
hon. friend justifiable in placing in jeopardy a large portion of the
(avenue of the country. This measure was undeniable in its princi.
and it was attended with the additional benefit that it gave fa
edifies to the intended arrangement with the refines'. He should
always object to an ad valorem. duty, for it raised the price of the
aiticle as much again as the money price in the market rose,
which he conceived was not a fair principle of taxation. He
lead only to say that he concurred with all his heart in the reaolu.
ion, though he wished it had been possible to carry it to a greater
extent

Mr. P. THOMSON explained.
Mr. BRIGHT thought ministers owed members many apologies
for not having, at an earlier period, entered into a fuller explanation
of this matter. There was not a single observation urged by the
honourable member for Liverpool, which bad not come to him (Alt.
Bright) from various quarters, and which he had himself been de.
elms of pressing on the attention of the house. The hon. mem-
ber then proceeded to argue in support of the amendment, which
could not, he contended, lead to any greater loss of revenue than
would result from the resolution of the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer. He said, it would not at all surprise him if the West India
interest were to decline the benefit this resolution proposed to confer
upon them.
Mr. HUME said, he regretted that Ministers had so greatly die.
appointed the country, by the non.fulfilment of the pledge held
out last Session, that they would bring the whole subject of the sugar
duties before the House, with a view to their assimilation. How
was this pledge kept by Ministers? Instead of placing the East
India sugars on a level, as to duty, with those of the West Indies,
they now caine down with a measure which created a greater dis-
similarity than ever. The public, the West India interest, and
the East India, were all concerned. The Right Honourable Gen.
tleman did not propose to benefit the public. He proposed to give
a particular benefit to one interest, which was partial and unjust.
The Right Honourable Gentleman last Session laid down prin.
ciples so just respecting levying duties that he was quite surprised at
the present measure. The duty on low priced West India sugars
would be reduced, but it would be proportionably increased on East
India sugar, and would in some cases amount to a difference of 86
per cent He was convinced that already the East Indies were
greatly injured by the difference of duty without benefit to the West
Indies ; and that injury and injustice would, by the present mea-
sure, be greatly increased. He hoped ministers would act on a
more enlightened policy, and place all the colonies of England on
the same footing. The measure was partial in its operation, and
was to be of temporary duration, and way in all respects so unwise,
that it should not receive the support of the house.
Mr. BERRIES said he was confident the hon. gent. must not
have been in the house, or must have forgotten the Chancellor of the
Exchequer's declaration, that the same scale of reduction was to be
applied ad valorem to the East India sugar. The question before
the house was a choice of reduction of duties. The Chancellor of
the Exchequer had proposed • cautious measure of reduction, such
as the revenue might he able to bear, and which would afford relief
when it was most wanted. The other proposal was for a general
reduction of duty far beyond what it would be safe to risk in
the present state of the revenue. (Hear, hear.) In all represen.
tations of the West India Interest, the greatest object of com-
plaint was the pressure from the high duty on low-priced sugars,
which could not be used by refiners, which lay so heavy
in the market as to depress sugar generally. The greatest ob.
jection to the proposed measure was, that it was difficult ; but if it
was right in principle, it certainly was not impracticable. He had
conversed with men perfectly confer ant with the transactions of
Mincing-lane, and they had expressed no apprehension of difficulty.
lie must consider all such objections as matters of very inferior
consideration, perfectly capable of easy solution. Another objec-
tion was, that a greater amount of drawback would be paid on ex.
portation than was received for duty ; but the honourable member
for Dover well knew that sugar was selling abroad for the same
price as it was at home, therefore there would be no danger
of loss from that cause. His right honourable friend was at:.
cured of vacillation and change of purpose ; but could any per-
son who had attended to the financial proceedings of that house
he ignorant that almost all great measures of finance had been milli.
tied after their introduction to that House. The silk measure, which
was one of which he highly approved, had undergone repeated alto.
rations before it was finally adopted by the !louse. He was not
certain whether he understood the extent to which the right hon.
gent. intended to propose reduction ; he hoped the right hun. gent.
would state in
Mr. C. GRANT said all he meant to move in that Committee
was, that the duty on West India and Mauritius sugar be reduced
to 20s. per cwt. and the duty on East India sugar to 21os. per cwt.
31r. HERMES resumed.—He would be very glad that the state
of the revenue would admit of such a reduction ; but to recover the
loss of duty by increase of consumption, that increase should amount
to 1,120,000 cwts. which was much more than could be safely calcu-
lated on. The reduction of duty on the present consumption would
amount to 400 0001. of which it was expected 200,0001. might be
made good by the increased duty on spirits; and that the other
200,0001. might be made good by increased consumption of sugar
was the utmost that could be hoped.—(The right hon. gentleman
sat down minds' loud cries of " Question.")
Blr. BARING said he must vote against both the proposal of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and that of the right hon. gent. oppo-
site (Mr. Grant.) He should oppose the measure of the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, because it would give rise to so much contrivance
and fraud, as to make it really impracticable —(heat, heat.) His
objection to the other measure was, that it put to hazard the revenue
of the country. With respect to the contest between the East and
West India sugar producers. he thought it one of the most absurd
that ever emend into the beads of any disputants ; fur as long as
they were both obliged to sell in the foreign market, it made little
difference whether the duty in the home market was the same or
different.
Mr. PEEL would say a few words on the moat important part of
the present subject. Whether it was consistent with the duty of
the house, after a remission of taxes to the amount of 3,300,0001.
which after the additional duties on spirits and stamps, would leave
a diminution of 2,700,00 W. to agree to th proposal of his right
friend, that a further reduction of duty should be made to the
amount of 1,000,0001. for which he could only expect a compensa-
tion by an increased consumption amounting to 500,0001. Was st
wise to make such a reduction on such a prospect? His right
hon. friend ('.:r. Grant) reminded hint of the reduction of the four
per cents; but that reduction was made by keeping up the public
credit ; and if they should so diminish the revenue as to be obliged
to borrow, they must bid adieu to every hope of being able to dimi.
wish the public burthens by that best of all means—the di.
minution of the interest of the debt. His Right Honourable
Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had persisted in the re.
duction of the leather tax, and the beer tax, and should not be
charged with vacillation for having changed his intended measure
for the relief of the West Indies, by a duty on corn spirits for the
present. He saw no difficulty in applying the principle of paying
duty according to value; and if any such difficulty existed, he had
sae doubt it could be obviated in the Bill. He hoped the House
would manifest its determination to support public credit, and to
diminish the public burtliens. by reducing the rate of interests by
supporting the resolutions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer by
a large majority.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. C. GRANT replied. He preferred an ad valorens duty, but
saw no hope of carrying it during the present Session, and he was
anxious to have an immediate relief afforded to the sufferers.—
(Hear, hear.)
The house divided :
Ayes • •
Noes . . .....

Majority against 'lr. Grant's amendment for redu-
cing the duty on sugar from the West Indies and
the Mauritus to 20..
per cwt..
Mr. BKOUGUA3I rose and addressed the house amidst consi-
derable contusion, which rendered the hon. and learned member el-
most inaudible. He oehgvatulated the house upon the majority it
had obtained—(a laugh);—fur his owe part he had looked to the
right bend and to the left for information an the.subject, without
bs able to obtain any ;it appeared to him to be an unintelligiblel
111111111114146
Mr. HIJSKISSON contended, that it was impossible by these re-1
solutions that sugars would' be sold by what was called the short
price instead of the king ; he' should certainly vote spinet the
whole of the teeettions proposed,' because they were impract*6. .
We in their nattlie ; the secounts he had been favoured with,
from his constituents, and they ought te knbw iemething of
the matter, were, that the auger trade now was in such a state
as wai sufficient to drive them to despair. he (Mr. Muskisson)
complained of these piecemeal budgets.—(A laugh.) the right
boo. member obietved, that the rum, brandy, and gin trades were
al s perfect stand stlll.—(lettighter.)—The maltater. the breier,
and the publican, were all at a stand-sdlL—.(Continued laughter.)—