The Sun.
London, England, 1820-07-18 00:00:00

THE SURVEYORS, &c.

Sir W. CURTIS presented a Petition from certain persons
who had been employed as Tide Waiters and Watermen,,till
March, 1819, and who, thrown out of employment by recent
arrangements, were reduced to great poverty, and prayed
the House for such relief as it should think 6t to afford.—
The Petition was ordered to lie on the table.
• The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
second reading of the Irish Stills Regulation Bill.
• Lord MOUNT CHARLES hoped the Bill was not intended
to be ptcssed in the present Session. •
The (al ANCELLOR of thie EXCHEQUER-said, itryas not
his intention to press the Bill. • '
After a few words front General HART,
The 13 ill was tlien read a second time, and committed for

to.naorrovv, when the CRANCELLOIL of the EXCHEQUER
proposed merely to fill up the blanks of the Bill.
Lord MOUNT CHARLES wished to know if the provie
sions of the Bill could be subsequently opposed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated it V!
be his intention to move, that the 'Bill should be re-cow

mitted. •
The Bill was then ohlered to be committed to-morrow. •
A Message from the Lords announced their Lordships
sent to the Naval Prize Money Bill, the London Militia Bata
OtO
,
the Irish Militia, Pay. Bill, atid other Public and Pr-
Bills.
\
The Small Stills in Ireland Bill was read a third titnerand
committed for to-morrow.
The Irish Excise Police Bill' and the Irish. Promissoll
Notes and Bank Post Bills Bill were severally read a sedgy

time, and committed' for to-morrovv.
G,ITADALOUPE CLAIMS.
MI. HARVEY brought up a Report from the Committee nri:
the Guadaloupe Claims. The Hon. Member spoke at soT.
length, but in so low a tone that he could not be beard td"-
gallery. He was understood to speak in favotir of the chat'
'
ants, and especially to contend that the claim of General Qc
fourneaux ought to be satisfied.
Mr. BANKES said, if the Hon. Member meant topresi'
the subject in the 'present Session, he should oppose it. 4!
claim of twenty-six years standing be could not consent
sanction, at that period of the Session, by one single vote
Parliament, which could not afterwards he revised.
Mr. HARVEY felt that it was impossible to bring the ease
to a conclusiOn in the present Session ; but early in the nes4
it was his intention to call the attention of the House to the
subject.
The Papers brought up were ordered to be printed.
PLATE CLAIMED BY THE QUEEN.
Dr. LUSUIXGTON 'rose to bring forward the,
subject to which he had had the honour of calling
the attention of the House on Saturday, nainel9,.
the Service of Plate given by the late King to
her present Majesty in 1808. It was a matter
of regret with him, that it should strike any 000
that his object in bringing forward the motion 0
Saturday was to take the House by surprite'
Such had not been his wish ; on the contrary, he
was anxious to avoid the possibility of doing 01
and at his suggestion his Learned Friend, the
Attorney-General to her Majesty, had given the
earliest notice to the Noble Lord that it was
his power to give of the' present motion. Wl'
ing, as he hoped, set • himself right with t",!
llouse,he would now proceed to show the grounti'-
on which he made his present motion: In 189,5?
the late King was pleased to- order fOr her
jesty, then Princess of Wales, a service of piate'•
That this was intended as a present was ad'
from its having been made after.. her own tastel
and after her own fashion, and that, too, by or3e
of the King. The bill for' the plate was sent i,et'
to the Lord- Chamberlain's Office, and there ;
was paid. That plate she used without inter.
ruption or restriction up to the year 1814, will
she left England. Till that period her present/
Majesty was living in Kensington Palace;
at that period, being about to leave the couptT
the plate was delivered to Mr. Mash by her 0
cers, certainly with an idea that if ever she re;
turned to England, she would have a right •
.0%,
reclaim it for her own use. Her Majesty hay;ot
returned to England, had latterly been withe_4:
articles that were necessary for her use, conlfra,
and convenience. She was at present in a come
tion by no means suited to her high birth el'he
connections. She was in a situation which (as 01
hoped) was utterly unprecedented for a Queen
this Country. lie believed. that so little pre,s
ration for the reception of a person of her elte'ce,
rank had never before been made, -on the 0c 0,
sion of any Royal personage coming to this Ce;:rti..
try. The Queen being in want of certain n
des for her daily use, was pleased to orderer
application to be made to Mr. Mash for the rio
toration of her plate. To this that Gentleeo,
replied, that 4‘ he did not feel auth4brised to 000
ply with• the requisition without an order fro;
the Lord' Chamberlain." An application 001,
then made, by order of the Queen, to the I),the
Chamberlain, and' now he would read to „er
House the answer returned by the Lord Civico
berlain to her Majesty's Lady in Waiting. it
as follows .i of
" The Lord Chamberlain availed himse':irecl
" the earliest occasion to bring the note recetile
" by the Lord Chamberlain from Lady Aunt
" milton, before the King, and having slice!: tbtf
CC ed from official documents that the right"
plate claimed by the Queen is in the 4-1" of
" his Majesty has not 'thought fit to give aneloof
" der for its removal from the Jewel
CC where it has been deposited."
He now proposed to consider this letter,
as it did from the Ministers, as the lettef °;iyo
Noble Lord, for he would not offend the lt
of the House by looking at it as coming fr°lo isr
1)1
other quarter. He believed that the
tax,
Lord opposite would be perfectly willing he hstt
should do so, for he was well aware thei.t.s 014
no wish to throw responsibility off of
as .others had attempted to t"eptri,
however, he might express his own sentituria
that Noble Lord, he should say, that betioct Di
mind the• liberal and gentlemanly celwnoali
which he was distinguished, he was 10
that he would never sanction pro s 0
those which had lately occurred—that r
never seek meanly to raise himself by ttee g,ff7re
dation of another—nor stoop to irritate tP
mind, to give a harsh unfeeling answieronid
justice and only justice had been ui,e hio
Proceeding now on the principle whic"a Pie
mentioned, he must -state what apPeareises/
to be the only possible grounds, or still° 0113,e
to
he ought not to dignify them with theto PrA.
grounds, on which such an ansvver cft ert)
been given. The one was, that it inig'ithe
sidered the plate in question bought b,Y °soli
Chamberlain was the property of the urci o°4'oo
had never been divested from it ; eilicensiepf
held by the Queen while residing in lid' „itt'
Palace, was always to be regarded time lie V!
loan, to which an end-might at anY tiott 1001
It would appear that the only quaqecabaece,ere,t;
when plate was ordered by the. Lorn cieli*
paid for by the Lord Chancellor, aners° trey
-
by the Lord Chancellor to foreign ot
r
and other persodages of high rank, svi,ntss cee ad
should have the use of it while in tr',la-t
e at
Such persons had always enjoyed the ripe/ 0"
supplied while they remained -In lict ever
he did not know that any person hit 100
heard of to claim it from them. '1:0017 to
suppose,- that some condition was
..,stete
The grant of this plate. If this wed
d to Ite,
Crown property, and only Oh°

7,QUE%

e prOVie

ed it "
re-col3l'.

•ow•
hips .
ilia BO V,
Private\

i er-and

a irdaP

mittee on
at soul
:id in I'l4-
3C ClZlltrt.
leral !Ye!,

to cresi.
Ise la
•«
•
:onsent tO,
:le vote 01

the COO
the ne%t4,
Ise to thu

and the
calling
namely?
King t°
matter
any one
Minn 00

lurpri2e'
racy,
he
Loin a so,
end, th°
iven the
it was iQ

loan
under the santtion oT the King-,if this were
'lllPnoseds, in his opinion, it 'was a: little extraor-
utlnarsr, now that Monarch was gone to his grave,
"that the use of that' "plate should be taken: away
gajesty. Iu his humble Opinion to sup:.
PPse that such was the intention of the late King,
was to suppose that which wasiot very reSisectfill
to his memory. If, -however, there had been any
'condition that the Qtreen, going abroad should
fOrr •
.eit the grant, surely; in common sense, Minis-
ti.teS had •
no right to treat the accused" 'as a con-
, Mned person they had no right to deprive the_ tric
--;en of the privileges of her high rank, and
*Yen to withhold from her the means of living
with decency as a private Lady. God have mercy
1111,_ the mind ghat could advise having recourse to
I Enrilmeasures; the effett of which'maist be to
dtsast the people from one end of the
antrY to the other. The cry of the Public was
If be guilty, proceed against her openly,
fast,SOY, and according' to the laws ; but God
lcl that she should be irritated by acts like
vt'iose of which he now complained." There was
more consideration which, however, he was
714ctant to throw out. When the Queen was
e11:4% here as Princess of Wales she was aftmme
therefore
and it might be contended that she was
uerefor-
e incapable of holding property in her
owa right. He, however, would not for a mo-
suPpose that the King, separated as he had
hadthe."l far so many years from her Majesty, would
4n,b• of availing himself of such a plea. He
mentioned that this might be urged merely that
it
he
die in silence. He. would now ask the
~ecircumstancesif, under all the circumstances of the
fol Wises e was not justified in requiring on behalf
ner Majesty their aid and assistance ? If it were
.atr?ssible that he could obtain the unbiassed opi-
d °IL of the Noble Lord on this question, confi-
int he was that, from the litgh character of that
oble Lord, he might rest assured that he would
:Stare against every thing calculated unneces-
xf aril to irritate and wound the feelings of her
lealesty.
He should be very well content to
Nohei he question to be decided upon by the
e Lord.
for I ••Ile was satisfied that he, acting
stomTliselfs would not hesitate to order the re-
that it of the property.- He did, not know
1,71. it was necessary for him to press this subject
that ,911 the House. It could not be expected
he should go into the minutice of her
--kars Household. At present she had no article
sh-eir command that was not hired, and the
ablo'e of her establishment was utterly unsuit-
a eto her high rank. He hoped that Ministers
t,heeHouse would give him credit for speak-
truthtn without exaggeration, and he hoped
site Noble Lord would save him from the neces-
RY of pressing the subject more strongly on the
" se- He hoped he should not be met by any
trgilrne
c nt to spew that the plate belonged to the
r°" in a strict right, and therefore it was with-
d
el- Such a statement would not be satisfac-
tory /4
Juke Wished. rather to hear that the circum-
Itlonß-es, of the case had been misrepresented or
misunderstood in the first instance, and that now
or'r°Per explanation having been received, an
older would be immediately issued to restore
ehil„late in question. This was the course which
-Ted to see taken, and sure he was, that this
tee): that wh,_,
ion would be most grateful to the
couLant's °` the majority of the House and of the
ahererYhat He concluded iv moving that
alloffis °uld be laid before the House, copies of
orderedciail, Papers relative to a service of plate
Prig "Y 'the late King to be presented to the
Righeness of Wales in 1808, and used by her Royal
from
tagia„dss.llP to the time of her departure
in 1814.
lunrd C
he slim, Asnufteamt,regretted very much that
the cud have been absent on Saturday when
bat earned Gentleman first made this motion ;
Iph. still h more did he lament both the mode in
tottic it had been brought forward, and the
fit
trse which the Learned Gentleman had thought
tee: dPt in his absence. He certainly 'had
tieralved a letter from the Queen's Solicitor-Ge-
istot. "IntnlllllCating the intention to bring this
Ittenril," ; but he would leave it to the judg-
tom' nl the. Rouse to decide whether it. was cus-
withary tcp
submit such a motion to Parliament,
whets
previously exhausted every other
fold means of obtaining the object in view,
the desired such a course was likely to produce
pate
esired effect.—(Hear.)—He would not im-
laearhanT effect.--(Hear.)—He
to the Ilonourable and
fop ;t' Gentleman, who had given him credit
th4ntertaining proper feelings and sentiments
to - subject, and to whom he was disposed
tend
slhp z er the •
same justice ; but, with every
attrt,inn to view the Learned Gentleman's
tetiticuc.. fairly and liberally, he was unable to
deau,„e it to the standard of fair Parliamentary
-'l5 and h
entlem., , e was sure that in the Learned
krt. ,„``,n s place he should have acted a different
Priem 'Re question was asked his Right Hon.
turda (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) on Sas
toesls'whetherlie (Lord Castlereagh) was likely
that IT, the House that day ; but he did not know
tos,,if 'tight Hon. Friend had been asked if he
Lean; had any knowledge on the subject. The
GentlemanPeculia was no
led doubt placed in a
to act r situation, in which he must be supposed
(Lordll,l,lcler the directions of others, although he
when h'astlereagh) did not know of whom. But
the L e heard the acrimony of remark in which
inns earned Gentleman had also indulged, he
t sa-
if his ob' that he could not have acted otherwise
-of th Pet had been to aggraVate the feelings
'worste PenPle—(hear !)—and to stimulate the
Part of
.Colltentthepopulace to expressions of
n dis-
,whieh and to repeat those acts of outrage. of
I
• 'he had • 'bless and
n tile himself been an eye-wt
r • course of which even the palace of the Sove-
been i
se'sll had
.had nsulted.—lf the Learned Gent.
even used the dilio'ence which became him as
a4.aci
inade"Cate, he could not have come down and
.of the
a speech 40 remarkable for gross ignorance
v; ith ject --(hear hear !)—and so pregnant
jest
calculatedfirebrands out
-of thatto act as
eHouse.--.-(Hear, hear !)—He thought,
.11 refore, it was not toomuch
himsel, to say, that when
• I was not in the llouse, the Learned
11714tieman should have ascertained of his Right
Ourable Friend whether he could give

him any information on the subject before he
made his motion ; andthat he should not have Made
any obserVations or Ott any qaestiOni on the sub=
ject of these papers, till a Munster was present
who could answer them.. Having said thus
mnch—and hoped he had not expi'essed him=
self more strongly- than 'the nature of the case
required—be came nO# to consider the Ciretiml
stance on account of which the House were to
have their feelings tortured) and the public mind
was to be ~ekcited, by statements apparently
made fat 'the purpose of carrying up that system
of inflaming the passions of the people, which
seemed to be so steadily acted upon.—(Hear!)-7--
He should state to the House what he knew of
this transaction; and in doing so, he could _assure
the Learned Gentleman that he was not actuated
by any desire to avoid the responsibility which
he might be thought to have incurred. About
three weeks ago (and it was not an unimportant
feature of the case that it was of three- weeks'
standing, notwithstanding the pressing haste
which prevented the Learned Gentleinan from
waiting two days), before the question took an
official shape, a communication was received by
his Noble Friend (Lord Liverpool) from the
Lord Chamberlain; stating that. her Majesty had
applied for the restoration of this plate. Lord
Liverpool said, in answer, that it was not in-
tended to refuse the Queen either a proper resi-
dence, or furniture becoming her station.;'-and
that when a place of residence was fixed on, the
question of plate and furniture would be consi-.
dered at the same time.. He was sure the sense
of the' House and of the country would bear him
out when he said, that if, on the Queen's arrival
in this country) she had conducted herself with
that feeling which became her situation and her
sex, there was no person who would not have
wished her to receive every thing that could
conduce to her comfort and convenience under

her* present situation. But when she could
have recourse to the advice of those whose object
seemed to be to instigate the basest of the popu-
lace to insult their Sovereign—(Hear !)—as he
(Lord Castlereagh) had himself had the misfor-
tune of witnessing, he should not shrink from the
responsibility of advising the King not to become
the dupe of such arts.—(Hear!)—But when the
question was taken up in this light, and the
Learned Gentleman came down to the House to
make a garbled statement=which he believed
the Learned Gentleman would not have made had
he not been misled—Lhe felt it to be his duty,
and he thought the House would think it was
its duty, not to enter into every quarrel which
might be raised by a discontented member of the
Royal Family; for if the House were disposed
to entertain these questions, they would have an
-ample harvest of such discussions.--(Hear !)--The
Learned Gent. had described this plate as a pre-
sent to the Queen from his late Majesty; an d a great
attempt had now been made, as on other ocba-
sions, to embark the character of the late vene-
rable Monarch in the question at issue, and to
make him an authority for bearing down the pro-
ceedings now pending before Parliament. The
House, he trusted, would guard against this at-
tempt ; for if Hon.- Gentlemen thought it their
duty to assert -on the one side, it would be the
duty oP Ministers to make assertions on the other.
It would be well to reflect on the situation in
which they would be placed, if called upon to
investigate the disputes of the Royal Family
with nothing but assertions. He had now
to inform the House that the greatest' part
of this service of plate was old plate belong-
ing to King William which had been converted
to the Queen's use ; and so little was it antici-
pated that she should use it as her own property,
that a formal list had been made out of the arti-
cles in the books of the Lord Chamberlain, of
which the followinir was the title—" A list of his
Majesty's plate in loan to the Princess of Wales
while residing in Kensington Palace."—(Hear,
hear !)—This list was in existence at the time
when the plate was reclaimed ; and if her Ma-
jesty used it elsewhere than in Kensington Palace,
she exercised a • discretion which was not war-
ranted. As the Learned Gentleman had been
pleased to make assertions, he (Lord Castle-
reagh) was at liberty to make counter-assertions,
and would say with regard to this plate, that the
Princess of Wales not being satisfied with it, Lord
Aylesford went to the King and explained this
circumstance, afraid that he might have given
offence ; and the King '
then stated, that he had
no more control over that plate than he had
over the crown lands.—(Hear, hear !)—From this
fact a judgment might be formed of the sort of
advice her Majesty had received from her Coun-
sel : he could only judge 'of the counsel from its
fruits, and very pretty fruits it had produced on
the present occasion.—(Hear, and laughter.)—
He held in his hand a copy of the official letter
on which this grave proceeding before Parlia-
ment was founded, and he thought that the read-
ing of it would decide the fate of this, the Learn-
ed Gentleman's first legal effort in this cause.
The Learned Gentleman had recently asked
leave to attend at the Bar of the House of Lords,
as one of her Majesty's Counsel, and he could
not help hoping,' that his professional- exertions
there would prove more successful than they
were likely to be on the present occasion.--
(Hear, and laughter.)—The letter was from
Lady Ann Hamilton, and addressed to the
Lord Chamberlain, in the following terms—
" The Queen desires the Lord-Chamberlain
to deliver her plate, given to her by his late
Majesty, to the bearer John Hieronimus, her
Chamberlain." He would here observe, that the
Lord Chamberlain's answer, which had been read
by the Learned Gentleman, stating that his Ma-
jesty had not given any orders for the removal
of the plate from the Jewel Office, was so far
from being a harsh answer, that it was positively
the only one he could give. He again complain-
ed of the Learned Gentleman, because he either
did not understand the question, or had neglect-
ed to give it that diligence which became a man
of business. When her Majesty was about to
visit the Continent in 1814, she desired her
servants to take a more authoritative step than
that which Lady Ann Hamilton had taken

under her histrdctions, for she had' actually
ordered them to pack up this plate) with
the intention of taking it with her : it was ac-
tually packed up for that purpose, and if the
Lord Chamberlain had not sent note on the

subject to Mr. Mash, it As-ould have' gone bat of
the country ; and if it' had gone onttf the coun-
try, he (Lord Castlereagh) .did not know—per-
haps the Learned Gentternah could infOim him
—by what proceSs it could have been brought
back. This, however, was not the only • step
taken by her Majesty ; -for, from Geneva, she
had written a letter by Sir W. Gell, to a Mr.
Cooper, ordering him to take the necessary mea-
sures to procure, her plate from the Lord Cham-
berlain, as at that time she was particularly de-
sirous of having it. He now hoped that the
House was aware of the real nature of the case,
and that it would perceive for what purpose this
question had been agitated. If the only object had
been to procure for her Majesty every necessary
comfort and convenience, he had shewn that Lord
Liverpool, when the subject was first mentioned to
.him, had said at once that a proper service of plate
should be provided. Ile again asserted, that this
was an attempt to lacerate the peace of the
country, by dragging the • present question into
discussion. .He confessed that he had been pro-
voked to forget his duty ; and a Minister could
not be guilty of a greater neglect of it than by
entering so much' into a detail of circumstances
that ought to be left to the conduct of the Crown
itself, and which were never intended the made
the subject of Parliamentary inquiry. If this
question could even be shown, by any tortured
construction, to affect her Majesty's comfort, and
her present situation, he thought his Hon.Friend—
he meant to say the lion, and Learned Gentleman--
(1 laugh I)—before he submitted a motion on the
subject, should have exhausted every attempt to get
information from his Majesty's Ministers; for the
Queen's advisers, he might be allowed to say, had
not found Ministers inaccessible. But, instead of
communicating previously with the Ministers of
the Crown, he had even brought the matter for-
ward when he knew there was none of them in

the House who had any information on the subject
The note of Lady Ann Hamilton was dated as
far back as the Ist of July, and since that period
lie thought the Learned Gentleman might have
found time to make some inquiry of Ministers
before he rushed into Parliament. He trusted he
had satisfied the
.House that the persons at the
head `of 'the Government, so far 'froth thwarting
her Majesty's -.comfort .and convenienCe, had
shown a disposition to -promote it as' much as
was in their :power ; and. that, so far .from thiS
plate belonging to the Queen, she might just :as
well claim his (Lord Castlereagh's) estate,
and the King had just 'as much right to dis-
pose of the one as of the othc;r. In 'conclusion,
he hoped the: House
.would .cordially join with
him in putting a decided negative 'on the present
motion.—(Hear, hear .
Lord A. HAmivraN was by no means 'satisfied
with the answers of the 'Noble Lord upon all
points, particularly where he .had contended that
it was not in the power of the late King to make
a present of plate. He (Lord A. Hamilton)
would not have made any observation on this
subject, had he not felt a firm persuasion that
'her Majesty had all along believed it to b.e her
property. The very acts which'the Noble Lord
had attributed to the Queen were evidence of
this conviction. She had ordered it to be packed
up because she" considered it her own beyond
queStion. He admitted that if, as the Noble
Lord had argued, the' King had it not in his
power to make a present of this plate, then the
case of the Queen had no merits on which it
could be founded. The Noble Lord had ar-
raigned the conduct of the Hon. Member who
had introduced this-. subject very severely, and,
he might say, unwarrantably, as coming forward
with a complaint of an unusual kind, and unfit
for Parliamentary investigation. He (Lord A.
Hamilton) -admitted. .that the subject 'was
one which ought not, if it could 'possibly
be avoided, to be -brought under the notice
of the House ; but he . would ask, whether
the peculiar situation of her Majesty was not
such as to lead her to have no very sanguine ex-
pectations froni the justice of the King's Minis-
ters. When the Noble Lord talked so vehe-
mently of systematic. endeavours to inflame the
public mind, did-he recollect the systematic en-
deavours to insult and degrade her Majesty ?
(Hear, hear, hear.)—The prOof was easy, and
the often-mentioned subject of the Liturgy in-
stantly presented 'itself. Was not 'that an inflic-
tion of injustice ? Were not the refusal of a ves-
sel to convey the Queen to England, and 1-v‘r
want of a fit residence here, to be looked upon in
the same point of view 1- Hes would appeal to any
man whether she had even-the ordinary means
of communications with Ministers ; and at this
moment she was deprived of the aid of her At-
torney and Solicitor-General. But this Was 'not
all. - She had to complain of injustice, not- merely
from Ministers, but from that portionof the Press
that favoured their view. Had she not been
held up to the world, in one of the publiC prints,
as a person,' who, for the ft-lte• Of :the peace. of the
Country, ought to be.gritridvf, and:whether, as a
martyr -or as a cCimitlal ycris .consequence ?
--(Hear, hear !)—lf 'Ministers did their 'duty,
ought they not to repress' girth .denunciations ?
There was another pOint—inconsistent, he was
sure, with the feelings of the-NOble Lord, and,
he hoped, with those of his Royal Masten—'--Why
was the Queen up to the present hour bblirred'to
-supply her wants for the conveniences of her
household by hiring all articles of furniture ? . All
these matters deserved conSideration ; and the
contemplation of the whole case only more 'and
more convinced himthat no subject had ever come
before Parliament more unfortunate 'for the
loyal Family 'and the Country at large.
Mr. MARTIN could not patiently- hear the mis-
representations of the Gentlemen at the other
side of the House, and opposed the motion..
Mr..C. HuTcniNsox thought there was rea-
son to complain of the temper displayed by the
House on' the present *occasion when it was con-
sidered that-it was them who would have to de-

cide gravely upon the Bill fraught with such im-
portant consequences as that at present pending

in Parliament:: He thought there was reason' to
complain that the House should be dragged for-

ward, and forced to take a part in a discussion
which had no connection with the main question.
After what the Noble Lord had stated, he was
perstiaded the motion of his Honourable and

Learited Friend would not be persevered in.
Ite thought theiNohle Lord had made out a com-
plete case.—(Hear, hear !)—He begged to do
justice to the Hon. Gentleman who had opened
the discussion, who merited much consideration
for the distinguished manner in which he ac-
quitted himself, although, in a Tarliame.ntary

sense, he wished to convey, as far as he could
in language, his reprobation of the course he had
taken: He was sorry he should not have

better informed himself on the question before

he used- language which he conceived he was
not justified in using,.—(Hear, hear I)—With
respect to the tendency these measures would
have to -agitate the public mind) he must
state his regret that Government, if they had
the power, should permit to go unpunished a
portion of the public press., He referred among
others to the Morning Post. He had seen other
Papers, certainly less respectable than the one
he had just mentioned, which were guilty of an

outrage so fak as to incite the people-to destroy
the witnesses brought to this Cmintry in a case
which had been alladed to. This Paper repre-
sented these witnesses as " enfans perdus,"—said
that London was too hot to hold them—they
were gone, and whether they would return, nous
verrons ; which was as much as to say, " let's see
if they dare to return." He was as great a lover of

liberty as any one, as anxious for economy and for
reform, and for a reform of that House to begin
with, still he must say, he deprecated any attempt
to intimidate ; and he declared, if any attempts
were made to intimidate him froth his duty, he
should be more determined and resolute in dis-
charging it. He lamented as much as any man
that the subject should have been forced upon
them, and he must says without .saying
that the subject had been mismanaged:-:--(Hear;
hear!)—lt was hard the public should be made
to stiffer in consequence of the misconduct of the
affair. He hoped the Queen would come out of
this matter as pure as her dearest friends could
wish, if she were innocent ; and if it should ap-
pear to be a persecution, he hoped ignominy and
punishment would be heaped on the heads of, her
persecutors. In the mean time nothing should
be done which tended' to affect the impartiality
of the cases

Lord A. HAMILTON explained,
Mr. STUART WORTLEY said, that after what he
had heard stated on Saturday, he had certainly
felt disposed to vote for the motion of the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman (Dr. Lushington); but
after the explanation which had been given that
evening, he felt relieved, and he thought the,
country and the House would feel relieved.—
(Hear, .hear!)--In this state of the case he hoped
it would' be a' lesson to thepublic and to that
llouse, which would let them know that -there'
were attempts at work to deceive -them into
false compassion on this subject.—(Hear, hear!)
—He. agreed with an Hon. Friend, who had
spoken on the subject, that the 'Learned Gen-
tleman might not meant° make. use of such means
on the present occasion for that express purpose ;
but he must observe, that from the statement
made by the Noble Lord, either her Majesty, or
some one about her, must have known that" she
had no right to this property. •
:Mr. IfusKissox stated his' belief, that it was
not in the power of the King to diSpose.of any
part of the plate under the charge of the Lord
Chamberlain ; at least not without the consent
of his responsible advisers. He had happened to
be in the Administration when Kensington Palace
was ordered to be fitted up for the then. Pri-
ncess's reception. Amongst the articles required
was a service of plate ; and he (Mr. Huskisson)
was the 'humble individUal who suggested, that
there would be found, perhaps, plate sufficient
in the Jewel Office which might save the expence
of an entire new set. It so happened that an
adequate quantity of old Crown-plate was found,
which was sent -to the silversmith's 'and re-
modelled, and handed over solely, as all the
other things were, for the use of her Majesty;
during- her residence at Kensington Palace. It
was so entered in the Books of' the Lord Cham-
berlain 1808, when first deliVered. When the-
Duke of Cambridge occupied apartments in St.
James's Palace, he had the use Of a service of
plate, as one of the Royal Family ; but when,
in consequence of fire, he•was 'forced to retire
into a private residence, the plate was returned.
(Hear, hear !)—lt was always a rule to give the
loan of plate for all residents of a Palace, which
was regarded in the light of, furniture suitable to
that special residence. The plate which was -at
the Palace of Windsor, even for the use of the
Kinff could not have been removed without an
entry of its removal being made, in order that it
might be traced where it went to. He conceived,
therefore, that there could not have been a mis-
conception on the subject.
Dr: LUSHINGTON, in reply, said, he did not
court the office which-was put upon him as, one
of. her Majesty's advisers ; but he hoped .being
called on so to act he would neither fear nor be
found wanting in the discharge of his duty. On
Friday last, for the first time, he became acquaint;
ed with the facts he had stated, and it was not
till late on that day his Learned Friend (Mr.
Denman); who was to have made fhe motion, told
him he, was obliged to leave town. On that oc-
casion- he Suggested the propriety of sending Word
to the 'Noble Lord, and understood from the
Chancellor of the ExcheqUer, when he appeared
in his place on Saturday, that he might be expect-
ed. The Noble Lord, however, did not come down;
and he asked, was he to postpone his motion be,
.cause of his non-attendance, and when he further
n erred, saw the rapidity with which public business was
prs s
lt:
he it was on the
d
this discussion with any view of agitating the-
public mind, s
ieeoefd forward
duty
b u t ?
he denied that he undertook
had been ascharged against him.

if her Majesty -acted on his advice she should
!raver lean too much on the peOple "without
a most -pressing and urgent necessity. But
he did not think the treatment pursued to-
wards her Majesty was .any thing like libe-
ral. How had het Majesty been treated when
She wrote for a, yacht to convey her Majes-
ty to England ? Why, that the Noble Lord
replied, " his Majesty was not in town:" Was
such an • answer courteous—was that a proper
treatment to be pursued towards her Majesty .?
What had her MajeAy to expect from a Ministry,
one of whom had treated her in such a manner?
From all the information be could obtain on the
subject, he understood the plate was her Ma-,
festy's—plate of "which her Majesty's taste and
judgment vas consulted as to the execution. On
going abroad her Majesty demanded that-plate
when abroad, she again-demanded it; from whence
resulted the conviction on her Majesty's mind that
it was her property ? If it had pleased God to re-
taha his late Majesty in the use of his faculties, her
Majesty would never have had to endure the
afflictions that were since heaped upon her. With
regard. to the observations of the Bon.Members for
Yorkshire and Cork; he could only say, he hoped.
for more consideration on the part of- her Ma-
jesty. She wanted every thing to make her
comfortable. Was the to be compelled to reside
where she now did, subject to every .Qbtrusive
eye ? Was she to be kept there as a prisoner,
because of the fastidious notions ©f some Gentle-
men, who did not. wish to see her Majesty move
abroad as she now did ? -Such observittions did
not, in his opinion, come well, as directed against
an Illustrious Individual in calamity. He did

not at all consider it unusual that presents were
made cut of the Civil List ;- nor did he request
the return of the plate to her Majesty as a matter
of right. Every effort to make her Majesty
comfortable would tend best to allay the ferment
that existed. If he had acted wrong on.this- oc-
casion, or exercised • a wrong discretion, let the
blame be on him, and not on her Majesty. He
had acted to the best of his humble abilities and
patver ; they might be censured or disparaged ;
he should not cease to exert them in the cause of
justice.—(Hear, hear !)
Lord C.tSTLEREAGI/3 in explanation, stated that
he 'understood that the communication sent•by
her Majesty's advisers was transmitted on. Fri-
day, but that it had not reached his office until
Saturday morning, and he had not heard of it
till Saturday night. It was competent, however,
to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to have given
notice, on Friday. But what he 'had particularly
-stated as a ground of blame •against the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman was, that instead of bringing
on his motion at once, he had not given notice-
of it on . Saturday At the game time lie was
ready to admit, that the acts of the Learned In-
dividuals, whose duty it lias to ,give advice to her
Majesty; ought to be construed"' with the utmost
liberality by the House.
Mr.•C. HUTCIfINSON rose amidst loud cries of
"Spoke," and disclaimed having uttered any
thing tending to impute blame to the Quam, or
in the least to prejudge her Majesty's case.
The motion was then put and negatived with-
out a .divLicn.