The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-30 00:00:00

SUPPLY.

The House then went into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. GREENE in the Chair.

On the vote of 70,000/. for the civil contingencies being
proposed,
Mr. WILLIAMS said that there were many of the
items which composed this sum, which he could not pass
by without notice. The first item he objected to was
that of 961., for defraying the expenses of the Bishop of
Exeter to the Scilly islands. The passage, at the ut-
most, would not take more than twenty-four hours, and
here was a sum of 481. a day to defray his conveyance,
whilst, he believed, he received 6,0001. a year from his
see. He thought it would be well for the Bishop to read
the Scriptures, and see how the A'post .acted. He
next objected to 68/., for the entertainments to the
DucheSs of Kent, who received 30,0001. a year from the
country. There was next a sum of 201. 55.. for the con
veyatiee of the Bis op of Jerusalem to Jaffa ; which
was, however, a small sum, compared with
.that paid for
the short passage of the Bishop of Exeter, The next
item was 2351., tor certain voyages on the Lakes of Ca-
nada, performed by Lord
_Sydenhant, who received 7.0001.
a year. By doing away with the .Embassies to Sardinia
arid Tuscany. a saving of 5,000/. would. be effected.
There was then a charge of 871. 105./' tor ePtertaittiug

\ *-~

t'vti prii, r !1 . ~t ,i-• ,ii . . i i"„ ‘-s
.... lie ;lid 1,... . ~ !I ; la . t•. 11- ' f ih.i.- eceeellete
try should be te ..1 ..,.. ti, ,iii..rainthiNit efe
such a Prince. There . was then another charge;'
of 3341., fur defraying the expenses of Mr. Roherr
Stewart, her 'Majesty's Charge dc; Affiires fee N,401;
Grenada, from Liverpool. NOW, he hail gone that. dietitere#
/
himself, and he could not conceive how .such an 'e7XiAa
had been incurred. Many of the oilier items were ,OA to
extravagant and uncalled for. He found an item Otee
,itts
allowed to eir George Arthur for the expenses rd. his"`sage home from Canada. Now he (Mr. Williates) !co.!1.:-.4
tended it was impossible that Sir G. Arthur could hive Seer;
such a sum. A sum of 4221. was allewed for the etitee*"23
collars of the Knights of the different Orders. NO' ,
contended that that was a charge which should O'A
have been borne by the public. There was in itetisla",
55i'1. allowed to Mr. Walker for works connected with`tS
Caledonian Canal. Now he certainly thought that that lt
should have been paced among the expenses connectecFeeit,
the Canal, and not among the present estimates. ln the Fat"
way he !mind in those estimat.s an allowance for carte tog ifft.,
effect the arrangements. connected with the eenny.postae:
• which should be placed under the head of the Post. tfee i't
partment. He found that a sum of 9231. was allowed to Lit,lt
Campbell for the expenses of his outfit to Ireland as '.,,,•
Chancellor. Now he ( Mr. Williams) contended that the"Yeee
lie' had no right to. be saddled with such a charge as. tne`',,_,'
There was one other item, with wh ch he did not intend to m
fault, but he thought there might be some new regulation "wt
respect to it. The item was e4(l. to Sir Thomas Richerl
had no objection to the item, as it was deserved by Sit Thin; 4
Richer, for his services to the public ; but. he (Mr. Willtdrel
thought that there should be offices for such persons to fill. ei
Colonel SIBTHORP said these things were the
of the late Government, and the Honourable Gentlemanlfsl
supported them in and out of office. Look at the expense., tn7l
had caused. He had often complained of theireetnninteren,
Commissions. He had a great objection to 'he Nriliit; Of the. 4
Commissions, and he could wish to see them bine-I:Was soce;en
them had been. He never saw such a profligatOCrovernnOlel
and he hoped he never should see another. ileiWai surprised
that the Hon. Member for Coventry should'stallitibehinci 1
Government when they were disgraeed: —( Latigliter. ) 7
Hon. Gentleman had missed one item of their work, and 07
was the imperial penny postage job.—(t anglver. ) The!
there was the item to Mr. Rowland Hill of 1,5001., and 111
item to Mr. Cole. But the greatest of all was - the Meal'
eagle job, added to the Campbell job—a pretty pair. With re;
Bard to the outfit for Lord Campbell,'he thought that dr,
articles purchased with that money ought to be returnee
and sold.—( A laugh.) They would produce but little, 171
in the present exhausted state of the Treasury the smalle'r
donation would be thankfully received—( A laugh )--,el
they might be kept as an exhibition, to ,show tp
job which had been perpetrated. If the Hon. Gentleman welllJ
divide the House against that vote, he would divide with him'
Doubtless. he should be told, as he had been when he had 07
jected to the' vote of 16,0001. to the Member for Bolton for
expenses in his travels, that the money had been paid. 1"7
grant was a gross and unpardonable grant, and he looked
something better from her Majesty's present Government. ~
they did net do better, they should not have his support
(Opposition cheers.) He was not for a low, niggardly
nomy, but he was for a proper economy. This expense l's(
been incurred after that House had come to a vote of +/cant'
confidence in the late Government, and it was disgraceful.
Sir C. NAPIER said he- could nottst all understand the al-
lowance of 961. for a visit to the Scilltlslands: He had carried
Governori and Commissioners on various 'occasions," and q,
always found the sun alloyed most ample. 'He' thought t, -
sum required explanation: 10
Sir GEORGE CLERK said the charge was one * ,b,/
was made in 1838. He believed the Bishop, accompanied ,i,
several other persons went to make a visitation to the Sel%
Islands. It was not fair to say that he vent merely 6,e.,,
voyage which would occupy two days. It was perfectly e!`o3,
that the expense .must depend greatly upon the length of no,
during which the Bishop was engaged in performing his flea
tation. With regard to the payment of '5OOl. to Cal'
Pringle, that officer accompanied Lord Sydenham to Calm;
at his Lordship's particular request, and having remained that
a year, the Secretary of State for the Colonies, certified.
in his opinion 500/. was a fair compensation, for. his 5ee41,.10
With regard to the part of the vote for .the menagemeat ce r
Post-office, he stated that the first agreement wsth Mr. 11°,0
land Hill to superintend his system .of postage Res ''for 'of
years; the present Government renewed that engagementeo
one year more, which would expire at the end of the Pre',ic
quarter, when Mr. Rowland Hal would be informed thaebe
was not necessary that his services should be continued.. 'tie
system was now so perfect that the authorities; both st e
Post-office and the Treasury, were quite competent to earl
on without his superintendence. 8.
After a. few words from . Colonel SIBTHORP and. Dic-
WALL, which were inaudible, .
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, tbst,ibbee
late Government thought it fit that a steam-boat ohottl:iiii
provided for conveying the Bishop of Exeter to the
Islands. " on'
Mr. HUME believed that no individual who was ever
ployed in the public service had been worse paid than bi 9 1,1 tie
Friend,' the Member for Bolton. 'He was only paid 0-001
same rate as ether Commissioners, but,, contrary to the ew!
practice, he never was paid a shilling except when en ' nee
duty ; and he (Mr. Hume) knew that there was a hslancie,ery
due to the Hon. Gentleman, who never had been Pitiaiete
much, as he (Mr. Hume) thought, to the discredit- of thaey
Government. (The Hon. Member then objected to a nesy4„ of
of items included in this grant, and requested an expla!s',lor
certain of them, more particularly the sum of 20,4y7:','se
postages, and the extra expenses of the Foreign Ministees!fee
Sir GEORGE CLERK explained, but was inaudible%iegre
Lord PALMERSTON said if .Hon. Members 'were 'ld-fief
of the practical utility of civil missions they surely vourilieg
object 'to any expenses-that might be incurred in es ,
~gift
them out.—(Cheers.) ,With regard to What had 1)11 was
relative to the claim .of his, Hon. Friend for Bolto,°;.-e, beeo
lithe true that there was I sum' due to him which ire7,-yeeson
paid by the latoGovernment. He was not aware edTgoverd
for not satisfying the- Hon. Gentlethan's c:aim. 14',. „eyeteet.
Palmerston) for one should support any vote foi;o7erittethe
—( Hear . hear.) The "House was probable' ssalaries of the
amounts'fixed on the civil list were only the zsr
Ministers, and did not include any incidental exPenseis iron)
messengers, carriers, postages, Sce. He (L roo',Pa in, tepee} 00
had, when in office, reduced the salaries oftbee airiP4o,7 '•
the diplomatic service considerably, and he belieiddith,ir .0.1
ries were now quite as low as those of the Mini.ters of FOOT
Austria, and other` parts. .Be e.. was firmly conven
with regard to - our. diplomatic services, that no 437
yernment in Europe—no Government in the Ins i
was so well served as the Government of this countr,t,
had been during the time he had a knowledge of the inanvees
'in which they had performed their services. I'be expel°
of postage were also fixed according to a certain regtdistion.
..0
Dr. BOWRING wished to call the- attention of therfieuhe
to the importance of having direct communication "Oh, .t e
Turkish Government. He believed, at that moment, they n'ent
no means of holding any intercourse with the Sovereign, esc rof
by the agency of strangers, and be thought that-wait a )tats 0
things which ought to be remedied. ' The state Of &lice
present was very unsatisfactory. Many of the families* froth ryire,
the dragomans were taken, had reached a state of opu'ers
and the interests of the country, and one or two others, "
entirely in their hands.
Sir R. PEEL said circumstances had lately occurred Wh,leci:, "
showed that an improvement had taken place, and that
country was net now entirely dependent on the dragoman ere
Dr. BOWRING was convinced if English feeling! A„,t
represented by English manners in oriental countrieslos"""
, ...
results would be effected. '
dotesla°
.
Lord PALMERSTON believed that the foreign ea,
who had been in the service had performed their Oft'
most proper manner. - *si
Sir C. NAPIER said he observed that a sum of 1,6001. ,k,
set down as an allowance for the Commissioners for the setbel
ment of Portuguese claims. It appeared to him. that it ``Oohs
be better to allow those gentlemen a certain sum in cal e,
claims were finally adjusted than to grant them a yearly a"etie
ance. He would also suggest that captains 'of- steS
so
boats generally at anchor in any port shouldebe allowecee
additional sum for the increased expenditure' to which 0
position necessarily subjected them.
Sir ROBERT PEEL had heard many complaints of derel°).,
and dilatoriness. He had requested his Noble Friend the Sco,
tary of State for Foreign Affairs to snake inquiries on the ster
ject, and he believed that no unnecessary delay had been iebel
posed. In fact he was satisfied that the utmost diligence of
been used by the Commissioners. The claims were, sonleot
them, of a- very peculiar nature. Some most extravage
demands had been made. It was but just, both to the claitna.",,e
themselves and to the Portuguese Government. that these elate're
should be strictly examined and scrutinized before they `to,
admitted. He was not inclined to interfere with the Go
missioners. t4'
After afew words from Sir G. COCKBURN and Sir C. NA Ito
Colonel SIBTHORP expressed his surprise that the 11-0
Member for Montrose had not 'objected to the additional 'for
of money which it was proposed to pay to the Hen. Member
_O,
Bolton. He (Colonel 'Sibthorp) elide not wish to derett'tj
from the merits of the Hon. Gentleman; but he had eltiectiot
to the former grants, and as the 'late Uoveniment had „et
brought the grant forward last year, he hoped r the re,-,1,,
Government would Object to it, 'and' leave-the Members o.oly
late Government to pay it themselvet: He *Whitt .cern°
oppose the grant. . '
ile!'
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the vote for the passagstne
of the legal advisers of ambassadors.
After a short discussion, -
Mr. HUME wished to know if ever there was such an allf
ance made to any Chancellor of Ireland as to Lord Campell,.
Lord PALMERSTON said it was theutual allowance.
The vote was then agreed to. in
The sum of 10,000/. was proposed for public educatete
Great Britain.- el'
Mr. EWART wished to know if this vote was to be tli'
buted between the National and British and Foreign Scho°'4
Sir G. CLERK answered in the affirmative. beef'
nAti;.i3nsitaruixiedioinrof.tsnhetchniisietanijosintinseisocnownregf.eiotnraeFgorytT.roeierfabnezndindtakethlthnaeletdrn.to.iiiirHtopmbureoeoceallfaihenbtids7rartget)‘:,;.4l.:oooo.l::
Dr. BO WRING wished to know, as a good deal had e,,
said
dethabeor
thatt h el lannouncementr
it.
waHUMSs not
thesa
the Mr. matter this session.
'Government had ' , bid
COWPER regretted that thed
dune more than make a promise on .this subject; he ente
hoped that a grant would have beanie:nide towards the e°'-
ragement of singing. • riefr
Mr. HOWARD complained that whilst the Catholic et
ben daily voted large sums of money to exclusively Pretes'her
purposes without opposing them. HJO. Members on the eta! 1
side were constantly complaining of the small sum awn °le
voted to Maynooth. The Catholics formed by no Ineatl- bt
inconsiderable portion of the community, and their claims oeg
not, in his (Mr. Howard's) opinion, to be overlooked. hie!'
Mr. O'CONNELL said that this was a pant •to 44 t e
every individual in the commmunity was called on to coocrs,
but., and from which, as it was at present distributed, a°, to
tholic could benefit. There were two Societies authorizee,toi
superintend the distribution of this grant, the Nati: tee
School Society and the British and Foreign School Soctebeet
The first was a Society connected with the Estahhs et
Church, and the• second was connected with the Protesuar
Dissenters. The Catholics were, therefore. necessarily eti
eluded from deriving any benefit from this grant. not by.
:ea
direct rule, but because they could not conscientiously se of
their children to the schools under the superintcndenc vo
these Societies. The want of a participation in this geante,joe
felt most severely by the Catholics in England—a large eere.a,
of the lower orders were Catholics A great many poor Irish yle,
tholics who came to England for employment were absolutelY-40
rived of the mean. of educating their children. It was not fairl
just, nor reasonable, that the benefit of the grant s
fined to Protestants, it ought to be for the education of itheeie
dren of the people of England generally. He had pressed the'
_nd
Lord, late at the head of the Government, en this subject,
..,
' t 10° °
he believed that Noble Lord had been as ready to rests eof
gentlemen on the Other side. Some years ago, in the Sit,st!,n„
New York, the educational grant had been given toga vtailis
tary Society, constituted on somewhat similar princieeate U
Society ; and in consequence the Catholics had beenasd beet
passed, putting all Chtistians on a footing told be chi;,
participate in it ; but during the last session a law b Tat
example ought to be followed. He hoped thoaftefratihiteY.Ta .1;:.
portion of the grant would be devoted to the Catholic !f.. re°,
They did not wish to escapefrom -uperintendence; nn, !..!7,, to
trary, they invited the utmost vigilance.
' ht be laid down an a' rte
conform to any regulations that mile asked was. ties'
of literature, moral, and manners. All they as ..
Catholics should-be educated iii their own- reheat?
The grant was then agreed to. and were ststiime
_.,