The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-19 00:00:00

a+ ____

-t once to the constitution of thlit Committee. He ob-
jected to the course which the Government took—to the
kectiese winch the Right Hon. Baronet took—but his ob-
etions were over-ruled, and he was required to place
before that Board all the charges which he had made in
the House of Commons. He
'did not attend, and the
real reason he would tell them afterwards. There was
not an individual on that Committee in whom he could
trust—not one member in whom he had the smallest
confidence.—(lliar, hear.) He objseted, lastly, that the
reports of the Secret Committee could not be satisiee-
tory to the country, as the reports of Secret Committees
never were; and if any man doubted the correctness of
that, he wished him to examine into the subject.
rl.it.a,heht Committee had instructions to furnish the
House eith a report etatieg the origin of the
tOnin law, and the expediency fer its con-
anre
sou the statute-book. The Right Hon. Baronet
a'ing epointed and nominated his own jury—having,
as he Waist himself, referred his honour to that Commit-
Jie-seet reserved to himself the privilege of' addressing
hiettls:ititsiel the event of the Committee's report being
iimfavoerahle. Ile (Nlr. Duecombe) also reserved to
provided eerivilege of. bringine up the question again,
tore, a.. i the report of that Coi6nmit.tee were unsatisfac-
i4;iirll In fu filment he, that evening, rose for a fresh
forth '' If be made cut that in the statements put.n-
stead ln that report there was gross incorrectness,. i
h of eerteinty, misconstruction instead of steeple and
°nest truth
, reservation where frankness was re-
rired, if
~.e be proved that the honour of En:land, the
that cr the Gevernment ought to have commanded
sh simple truths should have been given, and if he
the(vp.'d that suehha.cl not been the case, then he thought
"Ile would grant that a searching inquiry was ab-
Bsolutely necessary into one and every of his charges
eat,:ett.t_lleu?€,s',vr.e)rnment and against the Right Hon.
He was before that Committee
red to prove the charges mede against the Right Hon. '
fa'4rtenteet la his place in Parliament,' and he would read
c°,-- 'lie paper what he said at the time, before. that
th°etla`ttee• Ile stated first, that in the preF,ilncttes_ of
that , ecret-effice private correspondence was vli!ia
thenal
fen
.In that place letters were opened,
e4eipled to their destination, and the correspondence
that teat sent to foreign and despotic Powers. lies‘
114 ''"e Secretary of State for the Home Departmentcn.
sftee,?'eeeded his powers, and had made a most unc,
trie4nal and dishonourable use of the powers
that
en-
there ' t° birch—Meer, hear.) Ile had added,.
htSiaderneeretairveyerQhttl more letters opened during the
been in office, than in that of any
who had preceded him. He stated that he
tote,r'ecived letters from foreigners, complaining that
nitality of England had been violated; that eir
despots had been opened at the instigation of foreign
ttll, and that their correspondence had been com-
beeilecated to those Powers, and that imprisonments,.
quee'eualecte and deaths on the scaffold, were the conse-
tee es of those communicotiona. He stated also that
correspondence of the Foreign Ambassadors was
it Jested to the inspection of her Majesty's Ministers.
he's(Nlr. buncombe's) letters also--the letters of a Mern-
jn,"_oof that House—his correspondence had been
nveiod-.
,le.‘'alt his let!ers had been detained and
he bill of indictment he was called on toopperotve
h:forewas t
/e) the Committee. How were these charges me ','
, w del they find them explained in the report of the
eeeret Committee ? Let Hon. Members read it, and they
tia'it'ent.ldi.find that not one of his charges had been contra:
; 'l It seemed as if the Right Hon. Baronet h
.d
liven ahem
11,,., . em their instructions in these words,
had
ti lling, mystify everything."—(Laughter.) They s
".Explain
_t Met one of his allegations ; but if their instructron ~,'(r,e, Merely Considered, they had well done their duty.
first°Ued laughter.) The Committee was, iu the
place •
law, and
also to , , to inquire into the state. of t
executedlnquire into the mode in which ithehad been
elent before that tune; and as if that we're. notthe suolifir_-
etn,,',3' expressive, they were to inquire i
thae'La!lees under which any warrant was isnstueed, so t_hatt
thet ni'eht infer from those instructions at least. that
jwas required to come out. But how did the
lae,-7L,ttee begin their work ? They assumed that the
4et;*e '844 was analogous to that of 1711, when the
testae, Queen Acne was first passed, but they ought. to
tentiecie.t that the circumstances which that law was in-
184e h t° Meet were somewhat peculiar. The law of
the coal ving been assumed to be that of Queen Anne's,
tar, but note, proposed to give the history of the mat-
atete
ouf' one word more did they give. of the.
instill ,tbe law. They thought they
seconedtions h were obeying their
-3' going back to the time ,of Edward the.
tlaatie ' acd their report was full of very valuable. anteei
Wile ant] research, for at least two thirds of it was fillet ivart,:equatian knowledge. They gave the number of
karthets Issued by the Duke of Newcastle, byLorci Car
a eoPyll' of
they others, but what the House wanted was
~'''',l4",.ohl warrants issued by Sir James Graham,
-scliftl'-ter•) Not one of the warrants to the
terlait olta,reing districts were given,—not one war-
rißive h"'i,e present century had they condescended
t Iti °F tv-e;tinitse• They went on telling them that the
faeetee instentis individuals proved that the practice had
el'hie.,4 termer times because letters written to At-
statel‘ r e . "e , t b e Bishop of 'Rochester, and to other persons,
er,e°4Uced upon their trials. But they had not
tlthS..eereTnart.Dth.ose letters had been detained by virtue of
e ) oe the or State's warrant—they only stated the fact
"tears „tee trials of the Bishop of Rochester, and of
on
tl;' then
letters were produced. He found that
tee e trial
:13, and t, of Bishop Atterbury, an objection. was
Isl:e''. asked 'e",,e counsel in the case,. in examining a wit-
hiv)ra the e 11 the letters were detained under. a warrant
}Zs:wed to rotary of State. The question wfasthnesoet
, Pro een fle'wered by the bench. If any o
info eeenvis-se te.at a warrant from the. Secretary of State
oweed that 'tea at all, he thought it might equally be
clerks
e,„ respon ~ ,
.ine one of the
tterraet had stell or it might be that a regular search-f
e-"n'a);_seeecib 'granted for the search of papers.. I
laer! kee,v4w,. Warrant to search for papers,atlillaint dthiveiy-
d knew also .
eoteZtltitlee tuoat. they wanted,
tle4 it a fcr„ Issue such. Butan
.to reseal letters—to
k h." letter, berY, fort it was nothing less,s aonh,l
it
to send
ete;'°st in,' to their original addresse
Th °rely i,Teitous and most unworthy, system—too
what Comm teeny Minister of any count.ry.(Cheerst.o)
thi:t had iene said in their rep.ort, in reference
former times, that
tfaethver seas done in this way in
in the Post-
gt,- \viten
, not permitted to be used
tlia"%tho,," the express authority of Government; but
_
sn'i Year i'7ltY having been given in a certain portion
tf
Ilat'lY Prie,l2,, certain letters were then somewhad
ding
mie,eicto." Now, he (Mr. Duncombe) would
e ,"R their''euer the Committee of 1742 were properly
th:tiaNkr.ilty or not, by those letters that hadn
hi thie ' rudely pried into;" but this he would gay,
la lets was a
had Lad tat eumpliment which the report now before
heel en -„"n care not to pay those whose letters of late
kortar ) svornewhat rudely pried into."—(Cheer and
coif the d,"ither would he say that it was the busi-
tieve'eaiseat nniittee to do so; hut, as they had not
~_ r of 0,, ' 9ely
which this
lailentreillag pried into" the manner in .
ht
letters had been exercised by the Rig
tee-ter). By opposite, he would do it.—(Cheers and.
tees repnrtel referring to the Appendix of the Commit.-
lkey ,ree„' the House would find that this extraordr-
thinY, te-ae,ss, bad been taken by that Committee,
Apes Penis they did examine into the extent to which
li the )g of letters had been carried on, and that
e'd to wbel e
this ,Car, e 6- the " extreme rudeness " which' they
the ts
mender to the public.—(Laughter.) Now,
f rill
'to 4 ornmittee were to conceive it part of
,01. watlt' thre:shto tell the House what the Government of
ette at heti undred years . ago thought proper to do,
tiPteta at el haPPened in reference to the opening of
lee ereadi at diatant period of time, surely any person,
41:0,lw very that report, would exclaim, " God bless
Nt,t. be, /.I,Linapertant and interesting must not this
/Vag 'IPla,” %,"eil it comes somewhat nearer to our
!leE,t,*lihnt,.---,kCheers and laughter.) Now, although he
lae t'et'esea7,e`en give the Committee every credit for the
4%-te","'t the-" theY displayed, yet he could not help say-
therethe ac result of that research afforded no evidence
tieet•Tis, tipetl-f'tbe wanted to come at ; but, on the con-
'°rti' had Xs Point he should say the Committee's re-
(le: leost ee evaporated, and they appeared to have be-
1114:leaved
enht'aceouetably and unintelligibly reserved.—
,llia fore ee_ers and laughter.) Nay, more, he thought
.4(4i °lbllliti'e at down he could satisfy the House that
„hei:ruPee tPheehad,
.not obes ed the resolutions of the,
'''l4l plugs
sue.lset.—(Hear.) The Committee, in.
tli teen , state 1,
that strict adherence was paid to the
at Par s of ~,
kn, hPart of it tee warrant, and yet, while they said in
ask,
,eee oh the land had been obeyed, it, in fact, had
keeat ) spener ; and this was one of his (Mr. Dun-
'Nisiatl onee complaints against the present Govern-
tare, on which the public had a right to be
taftt e---mee
Iles, Non • h
beenl. -"ear.) And why had not this
t° 4' was . afforded by the report ? I,le,
hltiejettkee tgohe litLatnav'ouldt was this—that if it were
have compelled the Corn-
allth);eaed havec, entered the Secret Chamher—(Hear,
bi ra„ atere, ' fey did that, the should have betrayed
1/4a,:eereene's othat Chamber yAnd here let him say,
ors or theto this Saeret Cha.mber, he had seen by the
Pa p the 11 daY that that office had been abolished.
124444) h,90% . ember read a Paragraph from some (Ittle, Pl3osaet °‘e effect, and then continued. Well, he
e4ti
not bet him that this secret office had been closed, or
ta(et°t been 1 saY, as the lawyers did, that the office,
leinuAlite) 'c'sed, they had only " changed the venue'
iarie a,tn,Whatsseaind be would ask what signified it to the
eeree the Viaee that secret department was held, so
tzlet.titveititrolti,,sipii.erietaii.eGetirereaiteowntinued '?---is Hear, hear.) It mat-
ae held in the Home-office or in
Gels] by he sievedb o.long as it was held anywhere;.
qc,thiti hnuthory it would be, because it
wasand
to v'taut a 4 Act ofof an
Act. of Parliament,.
the
he Cent ref that I arliament could deprive, the
t
4 Y 114,1 }ttnhittei, , P°"'er•—(lTear, hear.) In respect
then :ortcr,erifilept,_e should say, his opinion was, that
pod Umber state
of tike th intention of that House, either
law upon this subject, or as to
,_eit,wriventie.,c,,. letters that had been opened during the
sh!iorneLeht 1/0 `1" (- And he would further say that
e teobs,('Partean'lt3tear,onet, the
hestSecretay of State kor the
(hied L tiese_ e had exceeded powers, had made
llla the '4 upelous use p
•
rear numenr , se 0, his power, and had not
again' h c'ar of letters that had been opened.—
the rQfc ' an
ehe Member
,I, 4 e? , see to
~, ers.) Here the Hon.
. att. exit ~.0 report, and having read a passaee,
I kit °II to s
iZttee
cis, a.utenrisinaY
,that it a. ppear.ed by it that 3'72
s, Ilee , %lee ~_ the opening of letters, had been
‘.4tlvenhi.izrzteh're..4e ianeaei
I,.tairsptoesoesntury ; of these, 300 were
—that was to say, warrants
Zetsetilaeheieertal:),,Peernoinege.of letters by reading iheconte.nts
hi ~ 8t(.
reed in J
~ted murders, robberies, forgeries,
iceim' 'were to :,c... Ilans for defrauding the revenue,
irretli‘eritwn,rer:litttes t.leted. But let the House bear
elle, etwee there wea
a great and marked differ-
illetil:iteinmeders Led
those
issued for the detection of eri-
lethilael tear end
ic'f,s,e of a political character. The
themlretleet eytnd tglit
againsts o call
iiatiltl:arssia,iitnndst%e4jeicdhi,
individualaffect affected
only.an
tenetllll,-,..° ascertain were directed were opened,.
nh' -,hide the n the name and address of an in-
YassaPPea'ractet. Political
warrants were of a very dif-
"'' lee a €'w, by the report of the Committee
4 a fro
' heine fe in the year 1841- to the end of the
° .. ee years that the Hon. Baronet was

in office, the number of acre warrants issued by then
exceeded al! precedent of former Governments. At lila'
time, up to the year 184-1, when this report was made
the present Govcrimicnt had issued as many L
rants in thi'ec pi•ars.—(['ear, hr,ar.) Now, on 1001,
ing o- of the report, 1 c e

vas 4 1 ar

ever the wee— eould net find thee
any thing at all like the number of 44 such warrants had
been issued in any three years, notwithstanding the
great research and labour displayed by-the Committee.—
(Cheers and laughter.) It ppeared by the report that
Lord Sidmontle in the year 1812—rather a remarkable
period—issued twelve warrants, and that was considered
an extremely large number ; yet the Hon. 13aroret (tin
(Home Secretary), in wire recent and lass remarksble
times, exceeded Lord Sielmouth by live.—(Frear, and
laughter.) Again, he would say that the lion. Bet,
ronet had made a most unscrupulous use of this power ;
and that was most apparent in the use he had made of
that power against the two foreigners, M. Mazzini and
Capt. Stolttnen.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") He be-
lieved the country hail not on record any instance of si-
milar conduct to such an extent.—(Hear, hem) But the
Hon. Baronet had said that her Meiesty's Government
had so used this Fewer at the instigation of a foreign
power, faun whom they had had communications that
led to such a proceeding. Now, he would call upon the
House to mark the error of the report in this respect.
The warrant was issued on the 3d of March, and was
cancelled on the 13th of June, and therefore M.
Mazzini had no cause of complaint. But he (Mr. Dun-
combo) would contend for it that M. Mazzint's letters
were opened on the 14th of -Tune, the very day before be
(Mr. Duncombe) presented his petition.—(llear, hear.)
Therefore it would appear that letters had been opened
at times when there was no authority to do so ; and it
was his firm belief that the warrant had been abrogated
for the occasion—(hear, h ar)—and that the whole
system on which this practice was founded, had
been conducted, to say the least of it, in a
most loose manner. But now mark the error of the
report. The House of Lords, in their report upon this
subject say, that " Letters had been opened for about
four months." Now, he (Mr. Duncombe) contended
that the warrant was in force from Christmas 1843 to
June7lB44 ; and he would ask, was a month to be
considered as nothing in a period during which a man's
letters were to be opened ?—(Hear, bear.) Therefore
he would say, that the Government were in this predi-
cament—that letters had•been opened from time to time,
previous and subsequent to the times at which this
report states that the warrant had been issued and
cancelled, and, therefore, there was a gross error in this
report.—(Hear, hear.) Ile did nut mean to attribute
any intentional mistake to them, for he believed they
had been imposed on. This, also, he believed, that
those letters to which he had been calling attendee, had
been opened at the instigation of a Foreign Power
but the reason assigned by that Power for opening M.
Mazaini's letters was that he had Leen secretly instigat-
ing an insurrection against that Power, and that the
British Government-4 herefore, had their authority for this
proceeding from "High Sources." Now, what were those
"high sources?" They were not stated in the report—
the report did not state that M. Mazzini was cognizant
of those • charges, or obnoxious to them; but if the •
Committee had heard M. Mazzini himself, their report
would then have had to give a very diff,:rent account of
the transaction.—(llear, hear.) But' mark the next.
contradiction in the n-port. It not only did not state •
the "high source:," bat it distinctly said that the
letters wore opened, "net" at the suggestion of any
foreign Power.—(Hear, hear.) But,- eoteithstanding
this, it appeared that " such information as had been
elicited from those so-opened letters had been communi-
cated to those foreign Powers."—(Hear, hear.) In the
House of Lords, the Marquis of Normanby asked the
Duke of Wellington was this the fact ? and the Noble
Duke said he knew nothing about it--(Laeghter)—hut
the Earl of Aberdeen, in reply to the same question,
said he could assure the Noble Marquis that nothing of
the sort had been communicated to any foreign Power.
—(hear.) Well, then,.to what other conclusion was he
at liberty to arrive upon this part of the subject
than this, that there was gross falsehood somewhere
between this House and the other House, but where, it
was not for him to say —(Hear)—but this he would say,
that some explanation was due not only to the British
public, but to all foreign Powers and' foreign nations.--e
(Cheers.) Well, then, the report went on to say that in
the course adopted by the Government "nothing more waS
done than to frustrate the attempt to create an insurrec-
tion." But he would ask, was that the proper course to
adopt ? Was that a course worthy of Englishmen ?
(Hear, hear.) Was that the course for the British Go-
vernment to adopt to frustrate an attempts in
which was involved the lives, perhaps, of those unfortte;
nate individuals?—(Hear, hear.) If 'be (Mr, Duncembe)
had appeared before' the Committee, he would have
shown that M.Afazzinili ad 'got a letter from some unhappy
and misguided meta, to the „effect that thq intended to
make a descent upon some of the Papal and- Neapolitan
States ; that M. Mazzini . had done all he could to dis-
suade them from so rash an act athat they had fielded to
his advice, but it was • then too late ; for the Austrian
Government sent their agents to Corfu to en-
courage on these unfortunate men, and under a
delusion induced them to retire from Corfu into Calabria,
where they had ordered their ships. This was all done
at-the instigation of the British Government ; these niuu
unfortunate men, thus betrayed, were tried by a military
commission, and very shortly after were executed.—
(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then read a letter
from two of those who had been executed—two sons of
Admiral Bandieri—in which they expressed their con-
viction of the wrong course they had been-taking, de-
clared themselves satisfied to expiate their crime with
their blood, and died crying out " Viva Itelits."
Such was the - way m .which the British Government
took measures for frustrating the attempts of individuals
to disturb the peace of our allies.—(Cheers.) "Why,
(said the Hon. Gentlemen with much vehemence) did;you
not say to' theirs individuals openly and magnanimously,
that their proceedings were known, that. their designs
would be frustrated, that they could not be allowed to
plot on, British ground ?—(Cheere.) Why did you not
tell them that they were rushing into ruin, and that they
must desist from their course ?—'Cheers.) -This you
could have done—(Hear)—and they would have, listened
to you.—(Hear.) No ; but instead of that, you handed
them over to the foreign 'Government, and their blood
is as much on the heads of her Majesty's present Minis-
ters—(CheerS)--e'aye, more, so than
.on the heads of those
individitals who were ordered to pull the tt igger. And
if the monument, which I. hope to see, and which is intended,
be ever erected to the memory of those men, it ought to be
inscribed on their tombstone that they fell in the cause of
their country and liberty, through the treachery of a British
Government; and the inscription, I believe, would be but
true."—(Great cheering.) The Hon. Gentleman proceeded
to say that that was not the only cane.—(Hear, hear.) Cap-
tain Stol.tman, an officer in the Polish army, discovered, like
M. Mazzini, that his letters had been opened, and he asked
for inquiry and redress. But he was not called before the
Committee. No information had been given to the House as
to the warrants in his case ; but although the consequences
were not so fatal, in reference to the informa-
tion given to the foreign embassy, as they had
been in the case of M. Mazzini, yet the proceedings
were most disgraceful to the Government. The warrant was
iss.ted on the 17th of April, and was withdrawn on the 20th of
June. Now he did not complain -as to the date of the war-
rants. But all he had to say was, this gentleman's correspon-
dence with Mr. Galiski in Paris was opened, as was also the
correspondence of Air. Wursell. Ne one ever heard of that
gentleman's name, until he presented his petition praying for
inquiry, ' that he might have the opportunity of wiping off a
stain cast upon his character by an insinuation contained in the
report of the Committee. Mr. Galiski was mentioned as
residing in Paris at the time referred to, as well as
another gentleman who was not named. Why was Mr.
Galiski •to be held up to reproach, and the other
gentleman not named? But the Committee stated that it
was alleged against those two men that they had formed a de-
sign to assassinate a foreign Sovereign, who was on a vist to
her Majesty. Now, why did not the Committee name the
Sovereign. There were two here on, a visit to the Queen—
the Emperor of Russia and the King of Saxony. Why did
they not • say which of them it was designed to assassinate?—
(" Hear;" and a laugh.) The Committee thought that the
allegations against those gentlemen was sufficient to justify the
opening of their• letters, at the same time the Committee
thought that there was nothing to criminate those gentlemen,
whom they had reluctantly named.—( The Hon. Member then
read at length the extract to the above effect.) If the Com-
mittee were reluctant to name those gentlemen, and hold them to
the foul imputation of murder, why did they do so?—(Hear.)
Nobody asked them. —( Hear and a laugh.) At all events,
when they did impute to those gentlemen the crime of murder,
they ought to have given them the opportunity of vindi-
cating their character. Mr. .Wursall was a member of high
Polish family, and a man of unblemished honour, utterly
incapable of thinking of the crime of •assassination,—( Hear.)
As the opportunity was not given to those gentlemen to de-
fend themselves before the •Committee • which published the
charge, they ought to be- allowed to do so before another
Committee, and that was what he now •called upon the
House to grant. In such a Committee it would be proved
that what he had stated was certainly true, that there
were, at the time of the Emperor of Russia's visit to
the Queen, Russian spies here. Those spies took advantage .
of that visit which the Emperor made—at so great inconveni-
ence to himself, as they were told in her Majesty's Speech—
( A laugh)—to ingratiate themselves with the Russian Em-
bassy, and to obtain leave to return to their home and country
For this purpose they invented the calumny upon those gentle-
men, and carried it to the Ambassador. Her Majesty's Go-
vernment acted upon the accusation, but without learning any-
thing to criminate the accused gentleman, and the spies got what
they wanted, and returned to their native land. They obtained
an amnesty immediately after the visit of the Emperor;
whilst the injured gentlemen were left here, with the
foul stain of murderers attempted to be thrown upon them by
a Committee of the British House of commons .—( Hear,
hear.) He (Mr. Duncombe) did not believe that the Go-
vernment were aware of what they were doing, sometimes,
when they imparted the correspondence which passed between
the Poles in their own country and the exiles here. When
the Government was requested to open letters, they would
sometimes have to say that they contained nothing hut matters
of family concern. Was the Government aware of the result ?
—( Hear, hear.) There were at present two ukases in force
in Poland. One to prohibit any person in Poland from cor-
responding with an exile, no matter on what subject, under
the penalty of imprisonment and flsgging.—(Hear, hear.)
.nother decree forbade all correspondence with any person in
England, under the same penalty. Under the authority of these
decrees, the Countess Sovinski was imprisoned on the suspicion
of having corresponded with her husband through the medium
of foreign ladies,—•( Ilcar, hear.) The Countess Vurenski
was also imprisoned for writing to an exile, and Madame
Valdi for corresponding with her husband, was imprisoned
and received fifty severe lashes—(Undescribable sensation)—
All these had been done under the mandate of that Sovereign
or whose visit the House had the other day congratulated her
Majesty.—( Loud and repeated cries of " Hear, hear.") He
was satisfied that the Government, in communicating such
correspondence; were not aware that the effect of makingknown
to the Emperor that a wife corresponded with her husband
was to subject her to imprisonment, and the most brutal of all
corporal punishments—the knout—( Hear, hear)—besides that,
her children would be taken from her for ever.—( Hear, hear.)
Ought not this Governnient,then, to be very cautious how they
betrayed any correspondence to foreign Powers that passed
between their subjects ?—(Hear, hear.) Another charge
which he had made was that of the correspondence of foreign
ambassadors. The House could imagine Lord Aberdeen
receiving an ambassador, and asking him, with a gracious
smile of good-natured curiosity, "-What news have you got
from your country today?"—(A laugh)—and the Noble
Earl - had- read all the letters the same morning.—
(Renewed laughter.) When he '(Mr. Duneombe) made •