The Sun.
London, England, 1827-06-21 00:00:00

CONDUCT OF THE POLICE OF MAYO.

_
Mr. J. DROWN, in moving that an humble Address
should he presented •% lies Majesty for a copy of the evi-
dence taken against the Police, ig consequence of certain
murders and other outrages which occurred in the County
of Mayo, on the 21th June last, took occasion to state that
he and his friends were attacked with 'donee by a mob,
,mhen returning from the last election, sad that all the party
vete more or lees injured. He was informed the Sheriff
well knew of the attack, but took no means toprevent it.

Mr. Secretary BOURNE suggested that the motion
should be withdrawn until the iscretary for Ireland was
jn the House.

Mr. GRATTAN thought the matter of so much im-
pumice, that it ought not to be discussed in so thin a
4 Hikie. •
lerell/4.;011 regretted that he was not in the House
tchili'ifti • 9entlernan brought forward his motion.
He thought tom{, on every principle of justice and equity,
the motion should be refused ; for the House would re-
member that the Hon. Gentleman sought to convict the
sheriff of Mayo upon evidence to which he was not a party.
The motion was negatived without a division.
ROYAL COLLEGE OF SURGEONS.

Air WARBURTON rose to call the attention of the
House to :certain charges against the Royal College of
Enrgeons in Landon. When the College applied for its
charter, a clause es'as inserted, giving the College a mono-
poly of Lectures on Surgery in London, but as soon as
this clause was discovered by the legislature it was ex-
punged. The Council of the College, however, endea-
-voured to do that by the aid of bye./awe, which they could
not effect directly, and it so happened that the Council
being lecturers themselves, had a positive interest in carry-
ing the bye-laws into effect. Before any student could ob-
tain a diploma, he must attend courses of lectures in Dublin,
Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, or London. Now, it so
happened, that in soma of those place, particularly in
Edinburgh, Aberdeen, and Glasgow, it was almost impos-
et/ele to obtain subject!, therefore, the great object of visit-
,ing these Schools of Surgery was defeated. Another obe
lee ion was, that the examination at the College was most
eepers";cial, so much so, that the Army and Navy Boards
were not satisfied with the certificates of the Royal College
of Surgeons, and the imlitiedaals entering those services as
Surgeons underwent are-examination, The greatest difficul-
ties were interposed in the way of the studentaand the public,
to prevent them from examining the library seed museum.
Tl-,e greatest neglect too, was imputable to those wile had
the management of this collection, one instance of which
he should mention. It was, that certain manuscripts left
by the great John Hunter, were now totally destroyed.
'The Hen. Gentleman concluded by moving for returns cf
the sums received by the College, and for copies of the
general reg-ulatione, and gave notice that he would move
early next Session, that the whole subject should be refer-
red to a Committee.
Mr. W. SMITH said, that the subject was by no means
new to the 'House, as similar pea;,!ions had been presented
upon former occasions. It was Unfair that in the interim
between the present time and the ensuing i,oasion, the Col-
lege ehould lie under these heavy charges, especjallY as a
great deal of them arose out of personal pique. 17: was.
true that at tis Present moment there was no catalogue of
the Hunterian Mazeum, and it was equally true thatny
any
of the manuscripts of the late Mr. Hunter that
n im-
properly destroyed. Mr. Cliff, however, was most sedu-
lously preparing a catalogue which would not • be any
longer delayed.
Mr. PEEL was bound to declare, in justice to the
• heads of the College, that he had found them willing to
remove every evil of which the petition complained. A
eery able person was employed drawing up the catalogue,
which would he soon published, and in the meanwhile his
time could not be abstracted too little by the admission of
strangers into the 31U3EUrn. He believed that foreigners and
strangers were admitted at all times, and when the catalogue
was finished, the days of admission would befour out of the
six in each week. The examinations of students were not in
private, and each individual was examined separately. The
students considered the examination to be very severe, and
many of them were rejected. The destruction of the papers
bad never been sanctioned by the Council of Surgeons.
An individual had conceived himself justified in destroying
these papers, conceiving it was necessary for the fame of
Mr. Hunter that they should be made away with. The
Council had ne power to prevent the destruction, and there-
fore were not responsible for what bad been done. They
had made application, in order to recover the remainder.
With respect to anatomy, that science could not he pur-
sued without a due facility of obtaining subjects or thr.d
bodies. Wax, leathern, or wooden figures were found
inadequate to the object. The difficulty of obtaining
bodies Ives increased by the prejudices of the lower or-
ders, when feelings were outraged at the idea of submit.
.zing dead bodies to dissection. The subject was well de-
aerving consideration, for, as the law now stood, it was of
eerious injury to that science most important to human
• /40. Young men designed for the profession, instead
In London, Edinburgh, or Ire-
of pursuing their studies
land, uniformly proceeded to Paris. The law that enacted
that the body of the murderer should be given up for dis-
eection, tends to create a prejudice in the minds of the
• lower orders against any human body whatever being used
for that purpose. He would not wish to alter the law in
this respect ; but he might bring in a Bill which should
provide, that all persons dying under any eiecutipn for

felony, should have their bodies given up for dissection.
There were between four and five thousand persons under
commitments for felonies, and he thought that all who died
in gaols, or on board the hulks, under such circwmetances,
might be given up to be anatomized. If this were con-
sidered an addition of punishment, he was glad of it, as it
would tend to prevent offences ; if otherwise, there would
be no hardship in it. The price of a subject in Paris was
only one Napoleon, or 145., whilst in London they had
been as high as 16 or 18 guineas.
Sir JOSEPH YORKE said, that the supply of healthy
dead bodies, such as of persons executed, was not the only
object, it being material for surgeons to obtain the bodies
of those who had died of peculiar diseases, in order to their
elucidation. He did not see why there might not be intro-
duced into the Bill which the Right Hon. Gentleman
spoke of, a Clause to render it legal for any person who
died in poverty previously to dispose of his body. He
thought it an evil, that whilst Scotland possessed three
Schools of Medicine and Surgery, England and Ireland
should possess but one each.
After a few words from Lord Binninc,, Mr. H. Gurney,
Mr. Moberly, Mr. Secretary Bourne, and Mr. Warburton,
the motion was put and agreed to.
A Message from the House of Lords announced that their
Lordships had given their Assent to several Public and
Private Bills--(for which see Lords' Report.)
RECOVERY OF SMALL DEBTS' BILL.

Mr. PEEL rose for the purpose of introducing a Bill
for the Recovery of Small Debts. It was, he observed,
quite obvious, that there existed no efficient means of re-
covering debts of 40s. and sums a little higher. It was
true, a man might try to recover a sum of forty shilliugs in
a County Court, but then he must be fortunate if he
escaped with an expence of seven pounds if he succeeded.
His first object was to increase the jurisdiction of the
Court from forty shillings to ten pounds, as was the case
at present at Lancaster ; he also meant to add the invalu-
able privilege of a trial by Jury, the qualification to he upon
the principle of the Juries' Bill, which he had recently in-
troduced. He thought, however, that a smaller number
than twelve might fairly decide upon such questions'; and,
therefore, he should propose, as a minimum, that five
Jurors at least should be summoned to decide upon any
question of debt in a County Court. In the larger counties,
such as Yorkshire, he would allow the same extension of
the County Court, only dividing the county into districts,
so as to afford greater facilities to all parties. He meant
to propose, that there should he no appeals; but that the
Judge should, upon a strong case of an improper decision
having been given, have a discretionary power of re-hearing
the case. He meant also to propose, that the Sheriff
should (as at Lancaster) have the power of calling in legal
assistance upon important cases, not an assistant with a
large salary, but a person to be paid pro hac vice; and he had
no doubt that the fees of the Court would provide an
ample fund for that purpose. He was aware that it was
impossible to do anything effective this Session, and therefore
his object was to give an outline of his plan, in order that
it might he generally understood, and that such suggestions
as were necessary to its amendment might be made. He
proposed that no Counsel should be allowed to be employ-
ed ; and that if Solicitors were engaged, their fees should
not exceed 10s. In place of the present writ, be meant to
propose that the Sheriffs warrant, containing the names
and addresses of the parties, should he sufficient to procure
an appearance. Thisbe did with a view to save expence. He
also proposed to give the Court the power ofallowing the debtor
to pay the debt by instalments, instead of levying it at once
by execution—a mode of proceeding which was often ruin-
ous to the debtor, while it was comparatively unproductive
to the creditor. In proposing this, he meant to give the
Court, in the event of the non-payment of any instalment,
a summary mode of proceeding for the recovery of the
whole ; this remedy, however, to be confined to property.
He thought it would be very hard that a party who claim-
ed a debt of 101. should be put to the cost and inconveni-
ence of arresting the person of his debtor, and conveying
him to a gaol, probably in a distant part of the county.
He (Mr. Peel) should, therefore, propose, even with a view
to the relief of the creditor himself, that the power of arrest
should be discontinued ; but, in return, he would make the
goods of the debtor liable to the fullest extent. He pro-
posed, therefore, that while he limited the power of the
creditor against the person of the debtor, it should be en-
larged against the property of the latter. By the present
practice, an execution, issued against the goods of a debtor
could only be enforced in the county in which it was
issued, unless some additional process was resorted to.
Now, he proposed to remedy that evil, by allowing an ex-
ecution, thus issued, to extend into every county—an
enlargement of the remedy of the creditor that would
he to him an infinitely more efficient security than the
power of committing to prison the person of his debtor.
The first object of the late Bill was the appointment
of Assessors to the County Court; and that Bill pro.
posed to vest their appointment in the Lord Lieutenant
of the County. To that it was suggested, by way of
Amendment, that the appointment of Assessors should be
vested in the Crown—a suggestion which, if he (Mr. Peel)
had remained Secretary of State, lie should certainly
have wished to see defeated ; and with the view of avoid-
ing' the evils of these two methods, a third course, which
seemed to have been much preferable to either of the
others, had been proposed—namely, to make the Com-
missioners of the Insolvent Court the assessors of those
counties in which they happened to be travelling circuits.
These were the outlines of the Bill which he intended to
submit to the attention of the House, and which he thought
would be attended with great benefit to the people, by af-
fording them a cheap and expeditious method of recover-
ing debts, too small in their amount to justify the expen -
sive process of a lawsuit. Ile knew that, among the ar-
guments which might possibly he advanced against the
Bill, was the objection that it would increase litigation—
an objection which he thought so frivolous, that he should
not condescend to give an answer to it. The Right Hen.
Gentleman concluded by moving, for leave to bring in a
Bill to facilitate the recovery of Small Debts.
Mr. Secretary BOURNE thought that the thanks of
the people of this country were due to the Right Non.
Gentleman, for the various Bills lie had hotrod uced to
amend the laws, and for none more than for that to which
he now proposed to call the attention of the House. He
was happy to give his full and cordial support to the pro-
position of the Right lion. Gentleman, and he did not
give it the lees willingly because the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had engrafted his improvements on the ancient insti-
tutions of the country.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was also disposed to give
his full support to the proposition of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, and he too agreed that it was the part of true wisdom
rather to amend the deficiencies of the old Institutions, than
to attempt the introduction of new forms of law. He
thought that the alteration of the law, with respect to the
amount of the debt to he recovered, was such an alteration
as the change of circumstances required, since 10/. now
were nearly of the same real value as 40s. had been when
the County Courts were first instituted. With the propo-
sition to abolish imprisonment of the person for these small
debts, he also fully agreed, and he thought it would be a
public saving in every way; that it would be favourable
to industry, and would prevent much of that misery to
which an honest but poor man was nms unfortunately sub-
jected. He concurred, too, with the proposal to extend the
creditor's remedy against the property of the debtor, but
he thought that part of the proposition might be rendered
mere effective if the Court were invested with the power
of in.iictiog compulsory labour on the debtor, who should
attempt to w'rthdrew his property from the reach of his
creditor. The Hon. end Learned Gentleman then stated
a few technical objections, which lie thought might he ()h-
-viated on a future discussion, aml concluded by expressing
his warm approbation of that part of the Bill which was in-
tepled to render an execution against the goods of a credi-
tor avallable in other counties besides that in which it had
first been issuer!. He anticipated much public benefit
from the measure, as ;t was in good hands.
Mr. HOBHOUSE trusiee* tbat the Bill might be passed
into a law during the present Saseioo. He thought, that
with regard to the recovery of small debts, the laws at
present existing were a great practical evil ; and that the
Bill to limit Arrests on Mesne Process, which had recently
been brought in by the Solicitor-General, and passed with
so much haste, rendered the present meesure more particu-
larly necessary, and required its immediate enactment.—
The Bill of the Solicitor-General went to deprive the creditor
of a part of the remedy he had previously enjoyed, and that
loss ought to be made up to him by the advantage of at
once giving him a greater facility in recovering small debts,
and, indeed, by extending the amount of debts that might
come under the operation of the Bill now about to be laid
before the House. He wished it distinctly to be under-
stood, that he was no advocate for continuing the practice of
imprisoning debtors—a practice which indeed lee thought
productive of very little advantage to the creditor, and
which he should be happy to see 3bolished altogether ; but
then he knew that his opinion was opt that which was
generally entertained; and lie did, therefore, think, that
when the Legislature proposed to deprive the creditor of
what was commonly supposed to be an important part of
his remedy, they should afford him an equivalent fur it.—
That equivalent was to be found in increasing the amount
which the creditor might recover by process in the County
Courts. He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would per-
severe in the good work he had undertaken, and would make
his proposition better by the speed with which he brought
it into execution.
Lord ALTHORP wished, as much as the Hon• Mem-
ber for Westminster did, that the Bill might be passed this