The Sun.
London, England, 1816-05-18 00:00:00

ENIPLOYNIENT OF TIIE MILITARY.

The Marquis of Bucxitgoohm, in piirsuance
of his notice, rose to call their Lordships' otten.
tion to this subject.—Under the circumstances iu

which he addressed then', he should not tela.
much of their Lordship:' time on the sta!iject. He !
felt it his duty however to come forward, because
it ajapeskred for the first time, that in direct breach
• of the law a military force had been recurred so,
. which he conceived to have heels acknowledged
and attempted to be excused by a Noble Viscount,
upon the ground of an incomplete communication
existing between the Civil and Military Atithori-
ties of the 'country. Conse9nently, it was !not,'
because the Law was incompetent or intutlicieot
to 'protect' the liberty of the-subject, but it- was
in consequence of a breach of that law, that
recurrence to the military had taken place.; and it
would-appear that • those whose peculiar duty it
was,' were incompetent to, the execution of the
law, The law provided every thing that was ne-
cessary for the protection of the subject ; but It
now appeared that the hands of the Ministers
were incapable of carrying its provisions into
effect, and this, as ! acknowledged, from the
want of a due or complete communication. -ex-
isting between the Civil and Military Autho-
rities. It: was not tar him to enter into the
ronsi:leration of what may be the feelings ,
the Noble Viscount, or of his Majesty's other
Ministers, when- such an acknowledgment was
necessaly but be eould. regard it iu no other
light then as somewhat extraordinary,. especially'
in the case of the Noble Viscoont, who, as High
Steward of Westminster, may, he considered as the
head of the Police or Magistracy of that City, and
as filling 'the office of Secretary of State for the
Home Department, seas absolute head of the Po-
lice of the whole kingdom. It appeared to hint
not a little exitantdinary.that a Minister so em-
powered shootd acknowledge and declare his in-
ahiFty of commanding the police within the limits
of his gte,vardom, and iu conseeoence, it should
become the duty of Parliament to interfere for
the purpose of considering the Noble Viscount's
'soviets, On the occasion of the complaint be-
ing orsdnally made by Isis Noble Friend, the
Noble Viscount had promised such steps would
be taken, as that the military should not act with
out the authority of the Civil Power. He was
content stith that promise at the time, and he
believed that Noble Lords - at his . side of the
House were equally so. lint not long after, cause
• of complaint again occurred, and oft its being re-
, monstrated against by the Noble Individual in
question, the answer he received. from the Mai-
tart' was, " We have nothing to do with Con-
stables here," and there, were no means of punk's•
big an net of eiolenee which constituted a fresh
breach of the law.. The hots of:the case reduced
the Noble Viscount to this dilemma, either that
he had nut kept hi• word in not doing that which
be had promised, or there was itnnewhere irt this
country a, power above the law, a power which
Bart the, means in itself of directing the Military
Authority, and of taking upon itaelf to direct the
without the concurrence of the.. Ministers.
of the. Crown, and witlsout any comuninication
with the CNil Authorities of the Realm. He wns
sure, that the first part of this case had no exist.
ence, but that the Noble Viscount had redeemed
bis pledge. The other 'alternative Own presuuttni
itself, and to Parliament devolved the duty. of
finding out the power that preanmed to set itself
above the law, and said that tht Military should

stet rritbOut. dip direction of the AntlioritiPs.
they, find Wit 'powtt, Iwire espeCally
as the Alioister of, "tie:Crown said that
not tOnoJtsible.; ,inasmocW as the ,act was com-
mitted widw, his knowledge, and that a defec-
tive eomnintiicatiou existed' betneen the Mibtnry
ancl.Civil Authorities of .the realm. The Noble
Marquis ti7en. adverted to some of the at-gureents
used ;upon the subject of, employing the Military
on such occasions, on a -forme! ercoing, and le-
ttrgecl those points which- .were -Lista *"Y .'of.,
refur,atiou,.still
cont.entling.,tor the illegality of
recurring to. the Military, ej•.cept tat
,the rrquisi.
don, and nuder,the Clintroul of the Civil,Power.
Th.ese were topics. lo thwight the Nob:e
Viscount, from Abe; high „office which Jong'
Inalteld in he other House of Parliament, should.
be ,particularly ,versed, a% some of Ttae occa-
sions then referred to Proceeded from the privi,
loges of Parliament, whirl! were held to ,above
all ,1aw..,: Under such circonsstances, .from what
had been acknowledged bYlhe..:Noble Viscount
on ,the last-evening of
.the discussion, he thought
nothing, remained ,to them but to. address the
Prince Regent, ~to be .informed by whose, orders
the military were sojilled out. -,.N0 • Man,could:
entertain- or feel A. higher vsentiment in favour of
the military. of this tountry,.ll: of. the Illustrious
Person ~ the head than himself ; but lie
wits anxious, to see ;that force,in AuhordinAtion,
in such CitSefti to the Civil Anthrritiesof the'realtn,.
and to see those ditties performed under the
aru-
thorit.x.of 111agistrates and ceyttables empower..
ed for. the purpose, which it was of late the
practice , chiefly. to employ the military in.
What he ,meant• propwie for the adoption,
of.their Lordships was, a resolution that
apPeared. to [loose, that the military having of:
kate:obstrurted.the tree passage of 'his Majesty's
subjects .tliriiui;h lliestreets id Westminster, wit h•
otit authority from the Civil Power, especially on
the I.•';th of May, •ISI 6,; and that., in COlSSetpielive:
an Address should he presented to thePritice Re-
gent, praying to be informed 115? mluise Orders the
military were so employed, ktittlOttt the sate may
be communicated to the House. Since he :IP4'
addressed their Lordships;there were tv.•() public
da”, and he Was hajipy to 'see' a great number of
constables einplqed, great alteration tor
the better in the cOuthict of the military. As to
the latter day particularly, when increased manta
hers, attended to pay their respects at Court, on
the occasion ,of the late Royd, Marriage, he le-
joiced to see the iniprovetl. conduct of the AM-
tarry, and the increased di:position on the part of
Government i remedy the Serious, evil that had
been complained, of.. • Under thi..sc .imptessions.
should Ministers take upon thernselivi to assoi;ti
the House that the business in que,:tion should be,
pin wholly into the !hinds of CollSlablv3, or tinder
the dircoian of the-Ckli Power, he had n-O objec-
tio'n to.
Withdraw his intended motion.

Viscount Stomotrnrose, and Jlfter- brieflyferrlog to the complaint made on the former oc-
easVni, on what he thecae deemed it his' duty
,tts.
State in consequence, stated that tlie flY:lora for
calling riper the Al
in ots 'mph OLTa,:i.;lii dul Itt4.
originate Secretio y ti State. aril that or)
110 OCT/4571011 hVfm4iit fortviiril
Noble FOr1), C;)/1;lita;lit otruistrno-:
doctor grievance, made to the ‘,l 6:a4.
That he had gi'ven orders tri the Chief Atigi,tr ice
of WeStnthister invariably to provide a sudicieut:
,number of Police Odicers in attendance on suer)
occasions Where the milit.try were called out.
This lie.tbought abstractedly should always t Ike
place. lie had, agreeably to his neel4 rati,m, taken
all the steps which seeined to hien necessitr?'.
for securing an adetin.ite attentialce of. the
; and whenever he was apprised ofth e
be bail taken care to give necessary direetioris
and he thought that n regular mode of communi.
cation should exist' for the purpose of alienys in-
forming the Secretary of State, whos'e duty it Was'
to call upon the civil officers to attend. This wai
necessary, in all cases tvhere tunintts Wei'e tq heti',
apprehended (on occasions of mere stare and pa...
Tade there may exist some dilTerence,) ;ton Where
it may be probable the military would beirallen
upon to' act. And in all these eases, lie Was of
opinion there ought to be a' previons CoMinutilea-‘.
lion made to the Secretary of Strite. He had,
since the topic sis.raslast before the llonie, search...
ed the Journals 'of Parliament, all the rek.vant
ilocunients., Null the records of the Office, and he',
could not find ;A single!. inStance of any einninn- •
,
nication being officially made to the oecrtrtary or
state,kruspecrofolie military, when )461 (so we
understood his.. Lordship) for mere purposes of
state and piratic. .On those ocensitins, which .ce7. .
ferret! to the privileges. of Parliamedt, as on the',
trials of Mr. ilastiligi turd Tir.acheierell, the
moats was for Parliament to address the SoVer6glt
to call out his Guards, as was usual od saeli ors.
CadOtti. after enforcing.the opinions he had ud- •
vanced on these points the former evening, the
Noble Secret;qy of State said, tie acknowledged,
because 'he felt .egnally with the Noble Martinis,'
that the paramonot authority iii the kingnen.
tufts the' Civil Power ; and be Took, to
'admit (though another result or his totem ekes
war his not finding that the Secretary of tate
had been ever held responsible as to the em--
ployment of the military on such occasions as
those in question)., that there ouglit'to be ii re.*
sponoible individual with ,respect to such arrishge-
ments, when made for the dignity of tire
reign. .\s far as respected bintselt, he sboald al-
ways act in the discharge of his.hluty in the hest.
mariner, he was able,•jtarticatily with refertoco
to the'Civil Anthorit of the crtintry, and That
dirty, with respect to the oceasioil., in questiou,
he would take upon hintiell. and 10,1 frota,
tltte responsibility_ With 'respect to -s.st.
truce, whenever ()tension .shoold that aid in c-
ee siry: He would see instree cA,cuted, to the
best of his power. 'With,respert
the Noble Martinis could use his own disci ctioii
iu 'pressing it or not.
The ENO of LttytprucK mAintaitieti that the
question, thus bron4ht forAVREiI, was nun di tar ter
itisigoiktince. "It bail liver, 'the invariahli; osocet
from the time of be Revolution to einp.l,oy
lirary tiPtro,Cpurt ,Nyg, .fact iiiithe- eto-,c of
toutuber of its Lood:in, he
had- never tt irias,ied am y sevions inconyenie:ct re- •
suiting from this pracri.e, Cffittr,if:, ,
liven productive of .41ca, Nt4'
could there Lase bceir tanciAl/4,11:419,0 lot Outill,htititt

a

, • -

, -
411,n,41ic occasion alluded to, wlicn, as lie
stood,. the Noble 14arl-.4Elssex,) Pig
to 'ascertitiu wilet4r„lie should be
stopped. •
' Toe Earl 0f.Eq0.,,x, tg.b.rcier, stated Oat lie had
•... •
;I.7he observed,,.khen,, it; had
' been ;,,,itgvieti iv,. another placeir—[tries of ()rder; .
Order I] J-1e,.-w,as'4lot;aware.,(if .heing out •rif,ior-,
to.hear wlta:
bjection .siokrniAtio wh.o.t. h.e hatLsairl.
'the FtBticet.t..ort olmiervetl, that whe---
. ther it hail been stated or not in!another
the N'oble.Kati WitS cert...iinly.ont.oforderin mak.
,
The,Vatil of liiNtEßlcx. rei-uned,, and observed,
• uitiurespeet to the I)ra witur„..rooni.tif yesterday,
that:with such .41W: thirotigi..lie had almost
11)011,L pressing., to, th,e,Pala.re, it, would, Ivive
been impogsilile.todiavq preserved ,any Itintirrlf re-
plbtrily witbouf the. aid of the military+ he saw'
11 niimbet of i7t►t.rtii;t'3 committed, constables eon--
with footmen, and isorne 'of- the tonne!.
ui,otnile'illy Mc thought t_bere'WBS 110
01401;11(I: whateeer ,for calling, for .the'interference
tat Varlianient, • ,
Tire 14.;a1.1 of, Essex denied that it ~wits a matter•.
of that hp or any olte. (Int! 31101114
1,3"14 bt"l'ti illegally stopped, in the street by a sol-
()ivy, lit: wislied„however„to a question of
the Noble Secretary of Statei, as to' the manner
ivhich the Ilktiy.of tbe sole and
coin-rant upon thele occasions wte, assigned totlies
Home. i)eporinieut ? The orders upon the occa-
Si( tl'alluded to (be 'believed it wit no Secret)
come. (rola' the Lot d Chamberlain ; wished
to,lttrow by whOnt the diity.Was tissirued to the
Secretary, ot Statetfor the Home Department ?
f,ord Viscount StnstoriTH said he had ;received
the- Prince Regent's commands to take, this ditty.
npon himself .egi Secretary of State for tats Ficiate
Deportment.
The li;ing of ESSEX expressod.biniself satisfied.
The Earl orLitorAticit. said he hint a high re.;
speet for the Noble Ear; (14.,%.*e5,),•antl he had al-
the iiis:guilit,olce of the question- from the
s'ilvposition, that the Noble. Earl had stated his
having gone on 1111f1t9Se to tee whether lM
tittutlld
be stopped, . •
E.trl lie gave his consent to the
nitb,trawioto he motion only On .the,..ground of
AViirit had been last, stated by the Noble Secretary
of State,' that liehad received the Prince Regent's
;ivbieb, was au express . The
.(Limerick} hatf, talked of constables
being con! otineleally beat el yesterday:: must
•
miy, that ilium this roestiou Nlinisturs..bad beet,
4ol.tor,1)(letlly neaten ; and ,their •coulltict upon. it
proved the ,triiiii 30 old. proverb,.that ,
• : A Viaister, a hpatoo,lart a Wahltlt Tree, • .
"1,0,! inure yott best them, th 6. better they'll be.
luttd alit general 'angli.)
'T,;e of l)Ait'..‘.;t,cv s',,bl, that 'thanks were
titre to Ow Noble 1,11•1 (Es,,ex') who 'had first
litoil4ht beAttess torvvard, titre! lie corrgrattl-
H ,u e and the Phblie testlit.
a.i it ”.o,llfl 'told to prevent any love for military
amide from 1, ailing to an undue milltary
(l'incy, as from small beginnings sometimes great
oro,C.
beim!: an objection from Aome Noble ',Ord
Co ',lie withdrawkigthe motion, it IN';I:r.1 pit and
ticg.ttived:

13.1.1\11. ReSTRACTION
'flidir Lordships, p to the Order of the
IlotrA., on kVeilitesthry, tesolved into a' Committee
on this Bill, •the L of Stlttr'rt::lollax in the
`kite Earl, of LI'VEIIPCIOI. flthirCS.o..ll the Cewo.
Invitee o some length upon the sobject. What.
evt:r difference of nivittion rn,eY exist, 'the Noble
I iii 0h.46.1v,1, upon the general i,titject Of which
the tiw;t-ns e ingtiestion fornted a part, there was
Don-t. as to tit & expediency of continuing the
•
re,Al t. non upon,..the Bank beyond the period to:
wlt it h. it vets ;it present limited by law, 'The dti.
ration of the time nei•essary for s preparation to.
taisßintt ca4ll poynieniw. wits tlie- only question
at issue. The before the ComMittee, not
(Ally plovitled the rene•vettiiif cash-p•tytnents,
'hitt for the earlielst possiblelinte for stteli yettewal,
ctlnsisteqt with its .own or the !while interestA,
Suelt.ti fit Was sufficiently recognized itl the
prvltrotilis of the Bill. At.. the saute (tine, the
periol was cab:lamed with a ykte to exi,:ti!,g, or
plob,ible. circumstances) Ina no pledge
17 ti:r•;illy 1.01110 he- given tlitt-i lid new or ext
ti:,!?ry circon).,i;torq
.interveniog may not tel
it nycef-ic try or cx(tedint to alter the proposid pe.
riOd of titivation.. -Aft4err a detailed Vie.tv of the'
ctse, 'And Spate, etirrespotalent reference to the
financial financial, state of the country, and demon.
stt•atnig, the siverior poli;(-57- of continuing the' re.:
stiictive system, which rite ciratttostanees of the
times had orig'ilr,dly rendered necessary, the Noble
`1;,o concluded concluded by stating, that the limit for the
calititlopoici...,,,'Of' the propo-•ed restriction would be
th'e rliti of ittly,. 1818, and Observing, that as to:
tl;c,to for the lattk's then resuming
us c,t,li
pvtina,titt!., rite Legislature luttl it itt their own
were it not for the intervention of this
rvbidi 1io it, the 1 i ilc would,. in the
exiz,tin;;; I,lw, he obliged to pity
in
ca'Ati tits Id' July next.
I I..,tunkAtn.t.,La spoke it considerable
1 in•g tft typo Stibitet 1,111111::,11 he differed WidelY
in many poitati from the Noble ..Earl, he did not
tonefi to the-:expediency of couthittiug the
festrteti,
m, pres,:ut, though he thought its aura.
,-,„13‘,4;• ii tit) ineitns be ci long. He
tier'ed, hokrevc r„.. tile present arr,togetnent to be a
sp'(cics cif O•ti:guin bet ween,,A.l.,inistets and the,
B•ink, As 11011611 g else but the, enormous profits
on-eurapv6aiioos'iArl.vi;d frotn'eoryittning the re.
str,rtiow, 1,v01,,n induct: or could enable them to
inake the rtrgie tn.lvances they 111,3 !requently, but
rate 'particularly of late, made to (overnMent,
)'i Otlie loon of three tuillions, without intervst
the ,Lonii of six millions at ...four per
.eent,;
protiA o
isr, very son, anuther' loan of at least
six utilliOnt-.. lit. entered into a variety of
e,ticidatiolv, to prove the great prows
tild, Bank in consegtience f the re.
,ilicti-• if system ; princif;ally exeniplificd the
p0r,r,,51,.e increase in the dividends trod rise _in
in L. 11114. Ile argued against the,
ri,ltry of lio% jag SO !Ong iSet penlion
1,1 ,ett,h p,kinents, tt3 tvitieli lie chiefly attributed-
/kr the coUntrY ;

-

dieted .tuttwe tut•auvantagovottld-arise
; strn:ttuly inculcated the
neers.44ty of eoatilisitiint•,..u:s coon' UR possible, a
g4neral tand.tril or medium of currylicY., without
tha't;they 'cintld do, to the Wiy 01
All. 1301 i. fl*ri
G011011(161. intention COIWOVe,„
21114:4)(1104111.,•‘tryat th, re.“l.lo6oo..sliottld- ter-
minate (I,Kthe I.E. :
'flty„Earlpf Loy t.t.tt,eoflt. matte-.0-clear,.antl' able
r.eply iii defence nt the tni.asnre,,. .the.coorse of
which he obsr•retl, tldat the time. of .petwe 11-4‘ing
hippilyarrixed,therewas onls.ittit;tfi:reLee of
ttion;as,to tlte period when Alie -.(110014.1
.nine its payittenti;
.t,he object of the chill etas to
pettiod, &hat the liank on ht know .wit:a
they hati tpi,(kpend no, The i`.iolde Lord then, in
atts‘Ley+o the.r.miarks the Karl of 141ilfier4kqe,
c,;pAtiateji on the real valises produced' ehe
vie in -the value of bullion .since It3-oS,.e.which ,he.
proved to be the extent olottr;titilitary operatiott.
iii rhe Peninsula and (it lte,,r part Sitt the
while from 1797 to 1808 there had: been. no cx-
e( s,ive foreign expenditure of specie, ;so that the
eoul*Seof eXci“ipge was not Ite,:lll:fit ' this
we were to date the tall of buliinti,, and the
riot itt the foreien eY.chatigcs. It Was IleeeSS:try t.O
;',,10 Ole Rank tifil,e„ to prepare] for, the iltlfer-
cote of L.Nclialige, to enable .the money to return
which had, been thiliorsed - tinder - ottfavoin aide
cirenwhtanees. Ile ;was ttlad that this retito.n.bad
been in our fa,‘ our for the last three months,, he-
'cause the fact proved that the remedy. for the-eVil
complained of hail already begun, and WWI I,;;ra-
tiwtally inereasing...it could not be deitied that
the advantages of the Yager Circulation had.beeri
extremely felt, bit it was- the policy Of the Go-
vernment to return to the payments in catilt,'and
the difference between-the. Noble Earl -stuff -him-
self was'only Ns ti) the•period when..•,thee should
commence. file l3ank and 11.0.1 Government would.
Live the remedy in their owu,hands, and could.
wake any arranAetnent for earlier payments, it it
was found necessary to-do. so, ;• .
After a 'lets' word; from, the Earl of- LInDEII.
DAL!,, the yiestion was uniin his tel 41,11.11).6
amentinVent„.atiti negatived without a nivisiou.
Se.veral Bills w.iire then
forll'arded
throc,o their respectire stages, after which the
Ilotn*eJttliourneil till MoutlAy.
• _ .