The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-23 00:00:00

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Northempton and by the late Lord Egremont in pro- carry that principle out to demonstrate its absurdity. If
siding the means of emigration fur their tenants, and the ttse iithabieante 4)1 the country were to export their whole
prosperous condition in which they now lived, seuding household furniture, undoubtedly it would increase the
home money to their friends, and advising them to amount of the exports, but it would at the same time
emigrate and partake of their own blessings. The impoverish the country. With a view of showing the
Noble Lord at the head of the Colonial Department i increase of destitution in Manchester, ho would state
had not, he supposed, overlooked this subject, but he that in 1835 the poor-rates amounted to 24,0611. and in
(Sir J. Easthope) did not think it had been sufficiently 1842, to 4-5,835/. The rate was now increasing at
attended to ;at least it was :not tried as a means of 1 the rate of 1001. for out-door relief, and 200/s
relieving the distress of the country, and therefore it i for - relief in the workhouse. A great deal had
could not be said that all had been done for that pur- been ~said of the immigration of the agricultural la
pose which could be done. He did not think that a long bourers into the manufacturing districts, but a reference,
period could elapse under the present pressure without to the Report of the Poor-law Commissioners would
bringing danger to the country, and therefore he thought 1 shins, that the amount of that immigration had been
that something ought to be done to relieve the distress I greatly overrated. He trusted the House would not,
of the people. reject the motion.
Mr. HUME said that the argument urged on the ,No other Member rising to . address the House,
'other side was the necessity of giving a trial to the pre- strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no division on
sent Corn-lams. The Right Hon. Baronet at the head i the main question took place.
of the Government looked forward to the admission of 1 Mr. COBDEN having (as we understood) moved the
corn under his Bill, but though a million and a half adjournment of the debate, on which motion the House
quarters of corn were in the home market, the working divided.' The numbers were—
-33
classes were unable to avail themselves of the supply in For the adjournment
consequence of the want of means to purchase, which Against it
resulted from the low wages that were received in Majority against the adjournment •-155
the present depressed state of commerce. He On 'our entrance to the gallery,
admitted that die tariff would be ultimately Mr. lIINDLEY was on his legs, and moved the ad-
nroduetive of beneficial results to the trade of the journment of the debate, amidst loud cries of .' Oh, oh,"
country, but. in its immediate effects it could furnish and " Question, question."
very little advantage to the working classes. The disc Mr. 0. BERKELEY said he was sorry he could not
tress in the country was appalling, and could they sup- vote for the motion of the Hon. Member if he pressed it
pose that such state of distress as had been laid before to a division.
the House, so frequently during the present session, I Mr. HUME said that his Hon Friend had expected
could possibly continue. *Certainly not. The time was that the Right Hon. Baronet would have spoken, and lie
not far distant when the landed interest would be swept was anxious to have an opportunity of making an expla-
away by the evils which their own selfishness had nation upon what might be said. He did not think the
generated. The monopoly sustained, for the ad- Right lion. Baronet had treated those who brought the
vantage of the landlords, would be found even- subject forward as he ought.
tually to be the most ruinous policy that could be Sir R. PEEL said that if regular attendance at the
brought to bear upon their interest. The remedies for .House was any proof of sensibility to the distress
the evils under which the country was sufthring had been of the country lie had certainly given that proot.
pointed out by gentlemen on that (the Opposition) side --(Loud cheers.) He ventured to say that for
of the House, and the responsibility of the con- one night that the Hon. Member fer Ashen' was in his
sequence of those evils • must be borne by the piece; he (Sir 'R. Peel). was there three.—(Cheers.)
Government that had rejected the remedies proposed. The lion. Gentleman was absent during most of the
He would only request of the Right Hon. Baronet fairly debate, and as a justification for moving the adjournment
to carry out his own principles. He was sure that lie of the House, he said that he (Sir R. Peel) had not
might thus provide food and employment for the people. answered his question, whether, if corn rose to about
Three-fourths of our population were now restricted in 50e. or 545. the quarter, he would promise to open the
their consuption, and nothing could remedy the evil but ports. With regard to those debates, he had shown no
en extensive change in our commercial policy. By un- impatience to those whose opinions were adverse to his
fettering the trade of the co ntry, the Right. Hon. own. lie might have complained 9f delay, but he never
Baronet might dispense with the Income-tax, which was a , attributed the conduct of Honourable Gentlemen
measure that could only tend further to aggravate the opposite to any improper motives, or to any
national embarrassments. From the hour that our ports desire to obstruct the public business. He had
would be permanently opened to foreign corn, destitu- taken a part in, the discussions upon this sub-
tion would cease, mills would be set to work, employ- ject when., at was brought before the House on various
ment-would be found for our distressed operatives, and occasions, on one of which it was debated for three sue-
every class of the community would be extensively bene- cessive nights. A motion had been made that an hum-
fited. If no such measure were adopted, with the Govern- one address be presented to her Majesty, that she would
ment would rest the responsibility of the consequences. be pleased to refuse her consent to the prorogation of
Mr. FIELDEN, who was very indistinctly heard, Parliament till a searching inquiry had been made into:
could bear his testimony to the deep distress which per- the unprecedented distress which prevailed throughout the
vaded that portion of the manufacturing community with kingdom. That motion was negatived by 165 to 84.•
which he was acquainted. It was his firm impression (Hear, hear.) He had on that occasion, as the organ of
that unless some alleviation of that distress were soon to her Majesty's Government, stated what prevented him
take place, it would be impossible to maintain the peace from assenting to that motion. Since that motion
of the country during the approaching winter. He im- was made by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen,
plored the Right Hon. Baronet to take some ,steps whiph to the effect that her Majesty's Government should open the
would give hope to our distressed operatives. It was his po
that occasion he and others of her Majesty's Government
its, which was almost the same as the present motion, and
wish to had discussedservice; the question. Last night another debate had
but how, he would put it to the Government, could he ac-
taken
complish that wish, if no step were taken to relieve the place on the subject, which exactly embraced the same
topics which had been adverted to this evening, and on that oc-
depressed state of the trade of the country? moon also he stated what his opinions were. —( Hear, hear.)
Sir CHARLES BURRELL, who rose amidst cries of No intention had been shown yesterday by the Members of
" Divide " from the Ministerial benches, wished to re- the Government to treat their opponents with any disrespect.—
mind Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side, that if the ( Hear, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend the Secretary of State
agricultural interest were depressed, that could only tend for the Horne Department and himself had spoken in the course
further to diminish the home market for manufactured of the discussion. Previous to the division the Honourable
goods. Member for Manchester had stated that he should
Mr. VILLIERS rose amid loud cries of " Divide." not persist in moving an adjournment of the debate
He said the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, because he would bring forward the question again in going into
n
had stated that if all the Liberal Members were like the from
ouchCommitteelhattheinfperrenseene Isdeuttetiral:
Member for Oldham, the question would stand in a ansftaStenrillyt., bNurtli
practiced), a continuation' of the debate of 'the preceding even-
better position. He could retort the compliment, by say- ing..—( Hear, hear.) It appeared to him that it must hare been
ing that if all the Members of the agricultural interest considered in that light even by the Members of the late Ad.
were as bold and manly as the Honourable Gentleman, ministration, inasmuch as he saw but two or three of them pre-
Members, of the opinions he was expressing, would be sent that evening. He felt assured, that there would have been
better acquainted ,with their arguments. But he believed a larger attendance on the part of those gentlemen, if they had
thought thus present was asesarttee dhiscdussion of an important
he was the seventh Member on this side the House who
had spoken cn the question, while gentlemen opposite himself,no addressedathealtrieonut tl'eaaitd spoken
had preserved a porteneaue silence. He should not make ysue'bleelY. and he 1281
because he had no new statements, and no new evening,explanations to
any apology for such motions as the-present. The apology make.—( Hear.)
ought to come frem those who compelled this course.. Mr. EW ART was bound to admit that the Right Hon.
If :hey had instituted any inquiry, or suggested any Baronet had not manifested throughout the discussio.. a in that
remedy, they should not have impeded the progress of House any personal disrespect towards his opponents. But it
public business, but receive their remedy, if they had any, appeared to him that it would have been better that the Right
with gratitude.. But no such thing had been dune. It was Hon. Baronet shout 4 have give() the explanation he had just
absurd to ascribe distress to the caprices of fashion ; they made before the House had proceeded to a division that even-
really had a. right to expect something more comprehensive log. Hetdoidt
titstoet,Rho(uosveevieuro,uslvd!sthhenthhaet the
.qduestion of an ad-
than that from the Ministers of the Crown. They were .1 r 5!
oul`rarraecsOßDEN contended that the question before the
reluctant to trace it up to the Corn-laws, which they
House. that evening was not the same question which they had
were so unwilling to repeal. If they had. nny inquiry considered yesterday. He should support the motion for an
the unsound nature of the laws would be. detected, and adjournment of the debate until Monday, in order to give Hon.
the fallacies by which they were defended exposed. Members further time to consider the question. He believed
Their arguments might do for quiet and prosperous that the majority of that: House was held in utter disgust
times, but would not apply now. They had promised throughout the country.—(Cries of " Hear, hear," and " Oh,
much to the people, but whore was the fultileient ? oh.") He was much mistaken if the truth of that statement
How could they tell the labourers now that high bread was not proved before six months had elapsed.
caused high wages. when the workmen were living on Mr. HAWES regretted to find himself obliged to differ with
a halfpenny a day ? Did they dare deny that the ma• his Hon. Friend the Member for Stockport; but it certainly
me m:Wring. novas were in the deepest state of appeared to him, that to resist the deliberate opinions of a
majority - f the House, was altogether contrary to the prinei•
misery ?—(Hear, heat.) What had become of their
plea of representative Government.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.")
excuses that these laws were for the public advantage 0 He thought that they had more reason to complain, that on a
now ? They denied their past arguments by their pre- motion made, and supported by the Members of such irn-
sent silence. He defended these discussions. The portant places, no Member of the Government should have
!light Hon. Member for Dorchester (Sir. J Graham), risen and answered, however briefly, 'the arguments used
had stated that the fended proprietors were a small body, on the. occasion.-o( Hear, hear.) Such a thing had
all-powerful when backed by public opinion, but if not never occurred before, and he thought his Hen. Friend
supported by that asould, if they insisted on monopoly, had some reason to complain. But, on the other hand, he
bring on national convulsion. He believed that this was must repeat that if such motions were pressed he must resist
them, on account of the important constitutional and represen-
their present condition. They were accused of stopping
the course of public business ; what encourage- tative question that was involved in it.
ment had they
•to go on with the public busi- Mr. COWPER urged his Hon. Friend to withdraw his
ness ? They said they were an impotent minority. motion.fi lELDEN said his answer was, that the people we e
What were the grounds of this conclusion ? All that the starving for want of food, and if no remedy were provided by
Government claimed credit for, was owing to the impo- the Government, he should like to know what Government was?
tehit minority. Every body now was anxious to prove Government in this country was an expensive affair; they
three he had always been a tree trader. Had the Import raised sixteen or seventeen millions from the people, and could
Duties Committee done nothing ? There was nothing they complain of being obstructed in the votes of supplies
abusive, in either House of Parliament, that was not or any other measure, when they were prevented from robbing
heaped on that Committee, yet it was the basis of the the people while they were taxing them ? He was rejoiced to
. throw every obstacle-in the way ;he told them that the people
new tariff. Every debate produced some advantage,
had no money to pay them. The Right Honourable
some
s admission from the opposite side, or some exposuro Baronet was not doing his duty to thepeople of this
P the l Held justify the
of the'country, that he would tell him li' Right
nly. The
evils of aw on this. could
motion ,on another ground.. Nothing had been proposed Honourable Baronet had granted him a ipersonal interview,
by the Gs.lvermaient that could benefit the people. That and had received lijm very courteously, and at that interview he
was a suffit'ient justification of such motions as the pre- (Mr. Fielden) had communicated some important facts to him;
sent. They were required in the present state of things, he had called his attention to the state of the country, and
for that the people were starving was something had asked him to do something to prevent the people
-
tangible. Noth. log
of that sort had been offered. The from starving for want of food. But all his entree-
tariff had been es
meeived in the spirit of that French tries had been of no avail ; never since he had been
when informed that the people were story- in that House, had he been able to procure any relief for a
Prince who, suffering people. The Right Hon. Baronet had talked of ma-
ing for want of brm.l(l, expressed his surprise that they
chinery being the cause of distress ; now he had .a petition in
did not purchase cakes. The people were starving for pocket
from a poor flannel weaver of Rochdale, and
the want of that brad which they had not the means he did not wonder that that individual considered ma-
of purchasing, and the Government told them they should chinery as the cause of his distress. In his petition, he
have meat and perfumes; cheaper. The Government had says—what does he say?—(Laughter.) The gentlemen
done nothing to relieve the distress. The people wanted who laughed had much better go home to bed to their
a free trade in food, that the masses /night have the wives.—(Roars of laughter.) Ha says in his petition that
means of obtaining the necessaries of life. His object in he commenced work at about seven years of age ; that in
the year
agitating this question Inscl always been that the people 1825 he laid out So/. in such machinery as he
and groan
quire's' for his own house, and saved 40/. besides ; that
should have the means ef living by their labour,
should be placed as much able re all anxiety on the score
mwoanrkhewuees staringnn ruined,hi in the
thehad
faeneothin,fhabbuttiantnheel
of obtaining the means of subs.l
.stence as possible. All
weaver sents his petition ifintrst Ito the Right Hon. Baronet, who
that could be done for the moral improvement of the sent it back to him wishing he would place it in other hands,
people— all that could be done for the improvement of and the weaver had sent it to him (Mr. Fielden). Here was
their education, must fail, unless they were well fed. a case of great hardship, and were they to tell him that there
—(Cheers.) The first care of a Government ought to should be no relief? It was the old constitutional practice
be to see the people fed. If they were well fed, well to insist, to demand a redreis of grievances before a
clothed, and well educated, they might safely be en- shilling of the supplies was granted, and this practice
trusted with the exercise of political privileges. His be should pursue. They had voted twenty millions for the
object had always been to feed, to clothe, to educate, emancipation of the slaves, yet the slaves were better taken
and to enfranchise the people.—(Hear.)
•They were
tewareentel y mtinontshteo relievena mauves, yet o4iLraytizosu.ld Whyilae nothis vote
at present pursuing a sinister. and unwise course of
for that purpose. And he would tell them how to do it. Let
legislation. If the people were poor and dependent, what- them go into the manufacturing districts and buy up the stocks
ever might be the form of government under which they in hand, and keep them till there was a der..and for them. If
lived, they must be staves.—(Cheers.) It was a great they, continued as they were, - the public credit would be
mistake to seek to invest the people with political rights, shaken—the funds would not be worth two year's purchase.
and at the same tiros to neglect to better their physical If the Government refused the relief he would continue to ob-
condition. It was impossible to maintain the present struct the voting of ;and it would remain to be sever if
law; the people were increasing at the rate of 1.00 the people would support him Thezophiti in the mannfa-
a day, and the object of this law was to place food out of taring districts woulde. s.nilastoretarheim
if.they caaltledehdiimd tlliodumeel:
their reach. An igeoraot people might submit to I sejentu biass of do.h. did
b trusting the public business. If the Right
this, but an educated - people never would; and I accused,,
Hon. Baronet and his colleagues did not give them some hope
in a country where the people were educated, and of a better state of things, he would divide against going into a
every one had a right ,to express his opinion, it would Committee of Supply, if he stayed there until five o'clock in the
be impossible to maintain a law poised for the purpose morning.
of keeping them wretched. lii the present state of the Mr. T. DUNCONIBE thought that if the Hon. Member
country there would be great danger in teroroguing Par- for Stockport, when he moved the adjournment, had stated the
nt i'hout passing some measure
fur the relict of reasons for his so doing, that the Right Hon. Baronet would
lite'e-- "taking upon itself have given eex laiiation he had since given, and the debate
the ch:q7c", and the Government was . .
wc 1i le been Co tinued After that explanation he trusted
e t aren .
responsibility in refusing all inquiry into its
a great the motion would be withdrawn, and that the Hon. Member
causes. for Stockport would address the House.
Mr. "Ali\
:TZ did not altogether approve of the ree-
P•Sir R. PEEL said that what the Hon. Member for Fins-
tice of he kriging forward one question, and debating
bury had stated was the fact. • He was surprised at the Hon.
This had been a Corn-law debate to all Member for Stockport moving the adjournment of the debate
another. been better if
intents and p 'orposes, and it would have at so early an hour as twelve o'clock ; and, if the Hon. Member
ts'eman had brought it forward as a Corn- had stated his reasons for the motion, he (Sir R. Peel) should
the Hon. Gen
law debate at f te•st. But although he did not altogether certainly have VsvechN selieuxpillnamthointiowhich he had given since.
approve of the ttu:ition, he did not wish it to be understoo_cP
Mr.
Al'
GI
t hich' hied
been submnitzst
toonethoef %dui! different
H e last
that Isis c9iisti \rents were in an easy and comfortable nature from t a w
by the Hon. Member for Finsbury. It had not been
state. He had'; been down there two or three times
nbighatni• t forward in consequence of the debate of last night not
a week for the last month ; he had inquired of every
having been adjourned. fie had a motion on the paper on the
person he met, ?-na all, old and young men and
subjectg for some time past, on going into Committee of Supply.
women, Whig, sinery, , and Radical, without excep- Sir R. PEEL had misunderstood the Hon. Gentleman.
tion, stated that• the'v had never known trade so The motion the Hon. Gentleman had had on the paper was, on
bad, or so sligfit "a. hope of any improvement. the motion for going into Committee of Supply, to draw the
He had himself ais lace of motion for an inquiry into attention of Hit/ House to the shopkeepers of Manchester—
the distress next se, scion ; he ...bought the present was a very different motion from the present.—( Hear, hear.)
not the time for thet inquiry. e.".lw country was never Mr. MUNTZ trusted the motion for adjournment would be
so disturbed as at th e present moinei:e ; but neither the withdrawn.
'ett • were in a Mr. HINDLEY, in withdrawing his motion for adjourning
country, nor the II ouse, nor the Aline 5,e,
condition to inquire. —they had not been .7g t on.
• the debate,• 'd in reply the taunt of the Ri h H
elf punished
Baronet
paid that
vas on his (Mr. Hindley's) absence from the House, he
enough yet to make them seek for the truth. ile•N he begged to congratulate the Right lion. Gentleman in not
on the point of establishing a new business in the Uell; hay had the same cause for absence from the House that
bourhood of Birmine :ham, and the applications that 7ver..° he (It r. Hindley) had—severe domestic calamity.—(Hear.)
made to him for emp loymeot were mortifying in the ex • Mr. COBDEN said that the proposition before the House
treme. Persons did not come to him boldly as English- Neu one calling on them to make an inquiry into the causes
men ought to do, and say I will give you a fair day's of the distress of the country. It was the duty of the
labour for your inone y; bait they came trembling lest they House to institute that. inquiry. The country was not now in
should be refused—a skin g for work as for charity. He the condition it was at the commencement of the session.
would not make one n mna,rk as to the cause or the remedy. Every w f efko
r,
teuvneer
li'Olfaihethat elapsed since that time had added
to
tie
believed a full rep iedy might be found. With regard I
etc' Incalsine into officecohuen t rays .1c e dWi'ho
ernttt.he
m Right Hon. Ha-
ont
to the remedy, he wSnild . ealy observe on one passage in
facts of the case, and promised to devise somee t
mo
ecasur onsidee orf trhee•
the speech of the Right H ert. Baronet, when he brought
lief for the country. The Right Hon. Baronet had ample op-
forward the Budget. The ..t light Hon. Baronet had said, portunities of knowing the increase of the distress—he kceiv,
" When we restored the elect station in 1819, we took time week after week, the progress in the increase of the poor-rates
to do so." There was a va. st deal in this. They did —he knew the decrease which had taken place in employment,
take time, for they had not I restored the circulation yet. io wages, and profits throughout the whole country, and how
They had restored the coin only, and he begged the had he fulfilled his promise?—(Cheers.) He had never, once
Right Hon. Baronet to conside r that point when seeking condescended b
rherisaleheLei rale,
the untrbefore the House.
for the cause of the distressed ( sondition of the country.
Baronet,( he r sh.
at
d moved for a Committee colleague ttiouftrthe Rtoigtltitte Hon.state
Mr.' MARK PHILIPS was for, an immediate inves-
, of the relations between master and labourerq ine the West In-
tigation into the causes of the dis trees, and ou that point dies—another Committee had been sitting:the whole session, to
he differed from the Hon. Member ' who had just sat down. inquire into the state of the negro population on the coast of
No less than 62,900 of his cons, ituents had requested Africa—but no Committee had been appointed to take into
him to state to the House the di), tress into which they consideration the distressed condition of our own population.—
were plunged, and the destitution by which they were (Cheers.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite, who represented agri-
surrounded. It had been said that .
-. the increase an the culture, thought that by remaining silent they. should induce
exports was a proof of prosperity. They had only to a belief that the agricultural districts wore pot iu a state of Oil-