The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-27 00:00:00

,
to raise ite.qbaliEcition to 10/. ? The Right Hon. Gen-
tlem
......
itan then saidff He would now beg the House to con-
What the effects of this measure would be. Was it
"Wei he would ask, to out a bonus to the multi-
Plication'of 10/. freeholds? Would it give Ireland such a
Yue.,tmt „ anry as its friends would wish to see established in
To be gime this was in 1825, and wonderful things
had come to pass since.—(A laugh.)—Mr. O'Connell
stated in his evidence, that the raising of the qualification
to 10/, would increase Catholic influence, and diminish
that of the aristocracy. The Right Hon. Gentleman
:'IIIY agrees in that opinion in 1825, but in 1829 he is
self the person to introduce a Bill raising the qualifica-
tion to 101. That was rather extraordinary even in these
extraordinary times.
Air. PEEL.—I think my Hon. Friend would have
much better reason than others to exclaim—
Ai"Permit psi ante nos nostra dixerunt."—(A laugh.)
Y Ron. Friend comes always prepared with his authority
in his hand, but I beg to remind him that he plagiarises
a'nfetimes, and I would further remind him, that he him-
"lc this very evening, supported a proposition which would
"to apply this Bill to every town in Ireland, and more
Mon that, a proposition which would disfranchise the free-
l'"lder in every corporate town of Ireland. I therefore
quote the Hon. Gentleman's authority against himself.—(A
ugh.)--The Hon. Member has referred to the evidence
Riven in 1825, and he has added, that wonderful things
have occurred since that time. It is perfectly true that
wonderful events have occurred since that time. Events
of such a nature that I can assure the Hon. Member he
Would find, that if a general election were now to take
Place in Ireland, while the Catholic Question remained
uniettled, and with the excitement and agitation prevailing
there at pre,ent, the result would be such as to induce him
to agree with me, that it was highly expedient, and abso-
lutely necessary for Parliament to consider the state of the
elective franchise there for the purpose of placing it upon
the footing proposed by this Bill.—(Hear, hear.)
The gallery was then cleared for a division, when the
numbers were
For the original clause
Against it

Majority
The claw*, providing for the registering of freeholds
"d er 201, a year ; for appointing a session to be held in
°fich county before the assistant barrister, for the purposes
I.such registration, and directing that such notices shall
Siren to the clerk of the peace on the part of persons
Intending to register, fifteen days before holding the session,
&were agreed to without amendment, after a few observations
la Lord DUNCANNON, Mr. PEEL, Lord F. GOWER,
r. boIIERTY, arid Mr. J. GRATTAN.
On the clause being read, enacting that " In case any
individual wishing to register, shall not claim by virtue
u,f,i4nY deed, lease, or instrument, than such person shall
'll'3ll'4e establish his title to such freehold ; and such
person shall also prove that a solvent and responsible tenant
could afford to pay fairly and without collusion for the
4nerne the annual sum of 501. 201., or 101., as the case may
af' al an additional rent, over and above all charges as
oresaid, and over and above any rent to which the
Per,aon so claiming may be liable in respect of the same."
4
Ir. SPRING RICE stated, that in his opinion this
clause extended to a franchise infinitely greater than the
1.0.4 franchise; and every vote he had hitherto given on
this question was strictly with rererence to a bona fide
10/, franchise. He thought it perfectly right that care
should be taken to prevent a fraudulent franchise, and that
they should guard against the possibility of the 10/. fran-
chise being open to the same objection as now existed with
a‘pect to the forty. shilling franchise ; and therefore he
as of opinion, that it was fair and just, that evidence
Other than the oath of the voter who wished to be regis-
tered, and the observation of the Magistrate, who was the
are passive instrument to affix his signature to the affi-
-1714 was necessary. But what he objected to was, that
t iYl4thie Bill evidence must be given by the registering party,
:he had an interest of 10/. in the freehold, over and
7" all rent-charges, &c. This, he maintained, was
?ing infinitely beyond a 10/. franchise. The party re-
eterinC must prove that the freehold was worth 10/. a-
lsr o'er and above all charges, and that a solvent tenant
bld afford to pay 10/. as an additional rent, beyond
„.13:15 eharges. So that before a man could establish his
right to vote, he must first prove that, as a lessee, the
freehold was worth 10/. per annum : and next, that the
kAqt derived from it was such as might induce a solvent
wet to take it at a rent of 10/. more. If this provision
:11,.erea fter found inconvenient, he thought they would
.e 4'4
"IltY of no inconsistency in altering it. He begged
of to suggest the propriety of striking out that part
the oath ich says, " that a solvent and respectable
•vnent could, as I very believe, afford to pay for the same,
:44 additional rent, the annual sum of 10L," &c. This
thiesnoily unnecessary, because in a preceding section of
oth'llt, the individual qas called on to prove the fact by
er evidence than his own. Let the freeholder swear
that which came within his own knowledge—but, with
Pent to his belief that a respectable tenant would give
z.
a-year more for his freehold, he objected on prin-
ciple to that portion of the oath as wholly unnecessary.
Mr. DOHERTY contended, that the principle on
Which the clause proceeded was not a new one, but was,
in fact, laid' down by several Committees of that House at
different times. In 1785 the Committee on the Bedford
election reported, that "the value of a freehold was what
a tenant would give, and not what the owner, occupying
it himself, derived from' it." In 1804, the Middlesex
committee came to a similar decision. It was there held,
that the true criterion of the value of a freehold was what
h 414 be given for it, and not simply what was made by
: tenant in the course of the year. With respect to ad-
k:ciag evidence to prove that a solvent tenant could afford
Pay more for the freehold than it was rated at by the
filer,
the principle' was not unknown in Ireland. He
kuld point out to him a statute—the 19th of George 11.
kaaed,. 100 years ago in Ireland, which rendered it neces-
'lT for the freeholder to swear in these words :—" I,
A b
swear that I am a freeholder, and hold a clear
estate of the value of 10/. above all charges payable
the same ; and I believe the same might be let to a re-
-Assible tenant for 10/. a-year above all rent and charges."
rhis, he must observe, was the law of England, and
w°lltiaciple 110 twf,'P introduced into Ireland. If he
ka`ro wilted, meat a man possess a profit-rent of 10/. a-year
4institute a freeholder, he would answer "yes ;" and
,1010 was at a rack-rent of 101. or 201. a-year, ought
After
be a freeholder.
TA:fter a desultory conversation, in which Mr..l. GRAT.
Ir. Mr. L. FOSTER, WM. V. FITZGERALD, Mr. NORTH,
STANLEY, Lord PALMERSTON, and Mr. PEEL, took
the clause was agreed to.
be Other clauses of the Bill were then agreed to, the
4°4° IVlttmed, and the report was ordered to be received
'keno*.

DOVER ELECTION.
144 Ite SPENCER called the attention of the House to a
cif some difficulty which arose under the new elec-
liCt• A petition had been presented, complaining of
of aetenbination of a select committee touching the right
electionll4 at Dover, and the clause in the new act stated
titt t within 21 days from the time of its presentation, a
ita„ .
hthould be fixed when such a petition should be taken
tti' consideration Now the act did not state who WAS
his 4 the day; nor did it call upon the party presenting
DIlPPeal to enter into recognizances to prosecute his ap-
q.lths..,- The time for fixing the day had now elapsed. He
Ito cu gentlemen would look into the point against to-
stpt2"vy and see whether the House ought to take any
ahr in this matter, or whether it should not wait till the
'Tenant took them.
117.
YNN conceived that it was in the power of the
for to fix a day. He thought that it would be unfit
sok'qe House to delay any longer than to-morrow taking
Proceeding upon this petition of appeal.
vtilne SPEAKER said that there might he some incon-
in 'tate in proceeding with this appeal, without know-
eut‘thetbier it was the intentiou of the parties to prose-
-413 Peal. If they fixed a day for taking it into consi-
toPian, the House would be put to much inconvenience,
vi-mtblkblic business would be stopped, unless they bad a
I„.,Se proportion of Members present before four
eNI-`l' in th day. Then, perhaps, after they had got a
ag dent number of Members, and the party appealed
Pelljt ilati gone to considerable expence
.to meet the ap-
-04 it might be discovered that the petitioner had aban-
td his appeal.
Xdr a considerable discussion on the course to be
to Pte. on this new point of election law, it was agreed
arti.°° k further into the matter before the House met
WY
devotionW:lN gave notice that ha would to-morrow make
rinin fixing a day to take the petition into consi-
questfn' The motion would, he said, bring the whole
Ten
fullyfull under discussion.
thetre Oof the Day were then disposed of, and
"oe adjourned at Hal pas Eleven o'clock.

------ -------
"' At LIST THE MINOR
1-'41141N IL IS
OF RAISING TI
Itli),„L
PRREHOLDERS FROM 101. TO 201.
ArehZinett M. Col. Elphinstone, J. D. Pigot, G. F.
corry 1, 'hi Fyler, T. B. Rochford, G.
Co4",t,ord•
Colonel
Handcock, Richard Saunderson, A.
1301 i ,94. Arthux King (Cork), Hon. R. Trench,
11441; It Moore, G. Wynne, 0.
qui, at
A.
. Maxwell,
H.

.ITY
311 QUALIFICATION OF

it took Carlton Club, like the Palace from which
teen I....iame, has ceased to exist, the doors having
Quarter-day.