The Sun.
London, England, 1829-06-03 00:00:00

' cannot but entertain a reasonable . hope that a large i roughs, men whose splendid and useful talent' are should remain as it was. His conviction was the
portion of the Members of this House will be dis- devoted to the welfare of their country, and whose contrary. When the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo-
posed to agree wit!: me upon the general principles, ' votes here are the best records of their independ- . site had introduced the Catholic Relief Bill, he bad
even though they islad,' not be of opinion that I ence and political integrity. But is it fair to infer, boldly stated, that it was his firm conviction, that
have made out ii,y ease for the necessity of Reform because a judicious or fortuitous situation has : the majority of the popular parts of the representa-
by the special wounds I have taken. It; Sir, in the sent such men to Pa:li,iment, that, from a system 1 tion were decidedly inclined towards Catholic Erna',
days of Locke, and ,till later in the days of Black- based on corruption, and acting in perpetual viola- cipation. For the principles of free trade he (Mr.
stone, this measure were deemed expedient (and I tion of the best principles of the Constitution, any Hobhouse) had always been an advocate, only think_
appeal to both these writers for support upon this : order of thing ran arise in which evd will not ing that it had not been carried far enough, and only
point), subsequent events, and increased and in-' greatly preponderate over good; and would lamenting that it had not been introduced sooner.
creasing evils, make the measure nosy a measure of the abolition of close Boroughs involve the! Whoever the Noble Lord might have referred to,
necessity and not of expediency. It is no longer to exclusion of such men ? On the contrary, when he spoke of the person who had deserted the
he tolerated that the best interests of the country, the representation being transferred to popu- , post of Parliamentary Reform, he (Mr. Hobhouse)
and the dearest rights of the subject, and, I
will lons places, would facilitate their approach to ' would say, that as long as he had a seat in that
add, the most valuable privileges of this House, Parliament, and their return would be effected in a House, he should not be found wanting in any
are to be compromised and endangered by borough manner much more honourable to themselves, and crisis, or on any occasion, to support that question.
contractor., and sellers of seats in Parliament. therefore more congenial to their feelings. From He would be the last man to inquire into what were
But let Honourable Members listen to the words 1 the time of Richard the Second, all historical records the motives of him who brought the question forward,
of Locke himself upon this question—" It be- establish the fact that the Commons were rendered but he should give it his firm and zealous support.
ing the interest as well as the intention of the corrupt by means of undue influence at elections. i The eloquent predecessor of the Right Hon. secre-
people to have a fair and equal representation, who- Amongst the names of those who, on these grounds, tary, in his place in that House had said, that in
ever brines it nearest to that is an undoubted friend advocated the necessity of Reform, we find Camden, whatever shape the question of Reform were pro-
to, and establisher of, the Government, and cannot Saville, Chatham, Pitt, Grey, Fox, Sheridan, Burke, posed, it should find in him a determined and unicorn-
miss the consent and approbation of the commu- and Erskine; and in one sentence of Erskine's, we promising opponent. It was not so upon the pre-
nity ;" and again he says—" It is not a change i find the spirit of the speeches and the writings of sent occasion. The first objection of the Right Hon.
from the present state, which, perhaps, corruption these great authorities : Mr. Erskine attributes to Gent. to the motion was, that the time of the
or decay has introduced, that makes an inroad upon undue elections—" that the House of Commons I S ession was not convenient for the I-louse to enter-
the Government, but the tendency of it to injure or i instead of being that for which it was intended, a I tain a subject of such magnitude. Mr. Canning, on
oppress th.e people, and to set up one part or party controul on the Crown, had become the great engine the contrary, always endeavoured to treat the ques-
with a distinction from, and an unequal subjection ,of its power." Lord Bolingbroke, at an earlier t tion as one of total insignificance—a question too
of the rest. Whatsoever cannot but be acknow- period, took a similar view of the necessity of Re-
insignificant to render it of any consequence whether
e
ledged to be of advantage to the society, and people form, and called the attention of the country to the it were introduced at the beginning, in the middle,
in general, upon just
j and lasting measures, will al- state to which it might be reduced by " a desperate or at the end of the Session. If the House was
ways, when done, justify itself; and whenever the Minister, abetted by a mercenary faction, and sup-
thin, he said it was so much the better, for it the
people shall choose their representatives upon just ported by a standing army." Let us suppose, then, better held up the subject and its supporters to the
and undeniable equal measures, suitable to the ori- a venal Parliament—such as Lord Bolingbroke de- ridicule of the country. For the question of Par-
ginal frame of the Government, it cannot be doubted J scribes—let us suppose a "desperate Minister," liamentary Reform, lie (Mr. Hobhouse) should say
to be the will and act of the society, whoever per- i rash, ambitious, impetuous and powerful, overbear- that the present was a full House. It was a full
mittcd or caused them to do so." But, Sir, I will ing to his colleagues, haughty and imperious to the House for any question, considering the manner in
not now enter upon any wide survey of this question Commons, insidious amongst his equals, dictorial to which Members had attended to subjects at the latter
—I will not now touch upon the nature of suffrage, his sovereign, despotic to the people, and reckless part of the Session. Indeed it was difficult to get
nor Will I, seek to determine the principle by wine', of their remonstrances—to whom would such tie a faller attendance at any period of the Session.
the right of voting should be regulated; neither will Minister address himself when about to force a The Right Hon. Secretary opposite, whose powerful
I enter further upon what has been called the Philo- measure repugnant to the people ? To the great advocacy had been exerted upon various occasions,
soppy of Representation, -nor attempt by statistical Borough Proprietor, knoning well that there are had ever been himself a decided opponent to
calculations to settle how many Members should bet two codes of Parliamentary honour; one by which we Parliamentary Reform; he had, indeed, objected,
returned by the landed, how many by the moneyed, j are exonerated from all promises or pledges,no matter not to the principle, but to the time and mode of in-
how many by the trading interest. Plans for the how so'emnly given to our constituents in a body, troducing it. He (Mr. Hobhouse) confessed that he
speedier returns of Members upon new elections, though they amount to thousands, whensoever it may was one of those wild reformers adverted to by the
and for the limitation of the duration of Parliament, suit us to change our political creed; the other, by Hon. Member for Wiltshire, who were anxious to
shall form no part of my present purpose. I will which we are bound to our single aristocratic con- introduce that wild reform so much condemned by
confine myself to matters much more simple ill stituent. If we violate the most trifling pledge to him.—(Hear, hear !)—He wished the most wide
themselves, and consequently more easy for state- him, we are considered as highly dishonourable; and extended Reform, but he was not prepared to
ment. My wish, Sir, is to witness the extinction I and if we have any compunctious visitings of con- refuse the most narrow and limited Reform ; he
of close and decayed boroughs, and to transfer their science, we must console ourselves in the Chiltern should feel thankful for anything which he could
Representations (as it may be settled hereafter) to Hundreds. There are some exceptions—it is true, obtain, without, however, abstaining from a perse-
other places; to what places, towns, or counties, we may see a Government very honourably ac- verance in seeking all that he wishei The lion.
and in what measure and proportion to each, must quiescing in a freedom of opinion in, some of those Member concluded by sheaving, that if the motion
be left to be considered in Committee. But the attached to it—it is true, we may see an independent of the Noble Marquis stopped short with getting rid
extinction of these proprietary seats, this burg-age Nobleman, uninfluenced by the allurements of office, of the small Boroughs, without a more general Re-
tenure influence, is called for by the injuries and and, what is a far greater trial, unbiassed by the ties form, he feared he should be unable to support it.
mischiefs it inflicts on the country. Can there be of friendship, registering his vote in a manner that Mr. Secretary PEEL, in explanation, said that
any thine more monstrous, Sir, than that seven entitles him tolthe approbation and the confidence of he had abstained front entering into the details of
electors, headed by the parish constable (I allude to his country—but we may riot argue from particular the question, because he did riot think the lloase
Gatton) should send two Hon. Members to this instances to universal conclusions. To whom, next, entertained an appetite for it.
House, and that two more should represent the in- would this Minister apply ? 'To him who bought After a few words from Mr. HOBITOUSE, Mr. W.
his seat, and might be said almost to have obtained S
terestitig ruins and well-peopled sheep-folds of MITI!, and the Marquis of BLANDFORD in reply,
Sarum ? What reason can we discover in the na- a right to dispose of his vote to his own private the House divided—
ture of things, or in the principles of representation, advantage. How long, Sir, is this shameful system For the Motion 4O
why some Hon. Members in this House should to be upheld ? How long shall we continue to see, Against it ll4
have neither houses nor inhabitants to represent— as in the days of Mr. Fox, men, and men of honour Majority
why others should only represent individuals—why too—the one having paid, and the other received, EAST RETFORD.
there should be so many whose ecristituents do not 5,0001. for a seat in Parliament—voting side by side Mr. H.' PANE rose to present two petitions
exceed ten ? Can there, Sir, be any thing in more for the imprisonment of a starving manufacturer, from East Retford, praying that the House would
open defiance of common sense and political expe. who, to save his family from perishing, had sold his not pass a Bill for the disfranchisement of that
dieney than that 3.54. voters should send 56 Mem- vote for a single pound ? Custom and impunity borough, but that a new writ be issued ; they corn-
hers to Parliament (a ninth part of the whole House may familiarize men with crime, but they are not Plaine(' that they had laboured under the difficulty
of Commons ?) What cause can be found either in palliatives for it. Close boroughs are notoriously of being three years without a representative.
the mineral or the agricultural wealth of Corn wall bought and sold :to sell or buy a seat in this On the question that a new writ be issued,
that it should be so prolific of Hon. Members in this House is a gross violation of the law of the land.— Mr. LUMLEY said lie should support the
House, although all the population of all the Cur- Peers are generally the borough proprietors. That motion.
nish boroughs is not much greater than that of a Peer should even interfere at on election is a Mr. TENNYSON rose to move an amendment,
Nottingham alone ? And, Sir, it must remain a breach of privilege—and that he should actually re- which he did the more willingly, when he recol-
subject of alarm to many, of surprise to all, that, turn the Member is incompatible with the inde- lected that this petition proceeded from the great
according to a calculation taken in 1815, one-half Pendence of this House. Peers, from their wealth body of the corrupt electors of East Retford. The
of the English arid Welsh Representatives in this and connections, have ample and natural influ. Hon- Member concluded by moving, " That a new
House should be returned by about 11,000 per- ence in county elections, and all beyond that writ should not be issued until the end of fourteen
sons, and the other half by above nine millions. is contrary to the wise and salutary principles days after the commencement of next session."
Sir, this is neither the time nor the place to en- of our Constitution. The return of a Member- The intimated that such a resolution
ter into nice verifications of facts; it is sufficient for a close borough is destructive of the tie which would be inefficient, as the House had no power to
to lay grounds for future inquiry, and I believe it should subsist between constituent and representa- pledge itself in this Session to a certain course of
will then appear that I have understated the ano- tive—it obviates the necessity of all communication conduct in the next.
malies of our representation. But, Sir, the between them—and it enables men to enter the Mr. TENNYSON, under these circumstances,
answer given to all this is, "it works well;" House of Commons as representatives of the people, would content himself with giving a negative to the
this has been the ready reply since the time that who have never on general questions publicly ex- motion.
the late Mr. Canning's eloquence gave it currency, pressed any opinion whatever—a course which every Lord HOWICK, though convinced of the cor-
and made it popular. "It works well." True, it man is obliged to adopt at a public election. The ruption of the borough of East Retford, should
does work very well for the jobbers in the Borough- close borough system affords, as my Noble Friend vote for the motion. He was as much opposed as
market; it does work very well for all who go on has clearly proved, a great facility to any body of any body to corruption in elections, but he did not
to power, and profit, and distinction by the system ; men accumulating a capital, and leagued together for feel, and would not pretend to feel that indignation
and I dare say Ministers will be the last to say it any purpose dangerous to the establishments of the which no man really felt against bribery of this stilt
works ill. lint, Sir, it works destructively for the country, to send a body of men, whose sentiments in the present day.
empire at large—it works destructively for the are unknown to the people, into the House of Com- Sir JOHN BRYDGES thought a harsh mea-
country and its colonies—it works against every one mons, organised and acting in concert for purposes sure of punishment had been dealt out to this Bo-
of the great interests of the country—against the dangerous to our institutions, and fatal to our liber- rough, in depriving it of its Elective Franchise, as
well-being of its trade, its manufactures, its agricul- ties. Lastly—The purchase and sale of seats is a thereby many innocent persons suffered for the
ture. Majorities, and (according to my views of glaring and disgraceful example to the lower orders crimes of the guilty. But, as this House had come
the questions which have been carried) fatal ma-
that rank and power carry with them impunity for to the resolution already so to act, the next step for
jorities in this House, have been swelled by means guilt, and encourages them to consider a traffic in consideration was the best meatus to substitute a fit
of this influence; and what is most mischievous is, votes justifiable on the score of precedent among representation in lieu of it. He confessed he did
the existence of such a system degrades this House their superiors. These, Sir, are my objections to a not °mint conferring this privilege on Birmingham
in the estimation of the people—time Represents-
system for which I think it presumptuous to suggest would be the best step, and he was doubtful whe-
any remedy, until this House has come to a decision they it was desirous of it. No such desire had, at
tive Body loses the respect and confidence of the
Body represented. It is to this cause, Sir, that the that a disease exists. I beg leave to second the least, been expressed that he had heard of out of
indignation of the country ascribes the success of the motion of my Noble Friend. this House ; it had been alone advocated in it. He
Mr. JOHN BENETT trusted, from the libera- should vote against the motion now under discus-
odious principle of Free Trade; a principle which,
lity which the Government had evinced upon many sion : and, considering it immaterial to the general
if persisted in, will spread the desolation still farther
which so fearfully prevails, and is now pressing so occasions, that some measure of Parliamentary Re- benefit of the Empire, whether representatives be
severely on our commerce. To this again is to beat- form would meet time approbation of the Treasury appointed in Birmingham or the hundred of Basset-
Benches in the next Session. law, he should, whenever that question carne under
tributed the largeness of that majority which lately
Mr. HUME thought that no man could object to the consideration of the House, give his vote for
overthrew the Constitution, and proved to the people
the motion. the latter, because he considered this was to inflict a
how very little their prayers were heard or heeded.
Mr. PEEL felt bound to give time motion a nega- lesser punishment upon East Retford, than to de-
How then, Sir, is a system so mischievous to
be mended ? Which are the most pressing of
tive. He admitted that the Noble Lord had stated prive it altogether of army share in the elective
time question with temper and ability; and the oppo- franchise. its evils ? Where should time proposed reform
begin? Unquestionably in time extinction of de-
sition he should give it did not in time slightest de- Lord OXMANTOWN did not think that cor-
cayed boroughs. Whether this should be effected by gree abate the satisfaction with which he heard the ruption had been proved to such an extent as to
descendant of anwarrant the disfranchisement of the Borough ; but
we Warrior, and the repro- . .
compensation, or without compensation, and whether
sentative of a Noble House, vindicate his opinions if the House should disagree from him, he should
we should extend our inquiries to self-elected cor-
an ability worthy of the name he inherited.— then have no objection to transfer the franchise to
porate bodies, possessing the rights of franchise, with
will be matter for future discussion. But, Sir, vital Considering the nature of the subject, all must Birmin
m DgbamN.CONI agree that it ought not to be brought forward when ....a.. _ Ifi. iBE should support the motion,
interests are in the meanwhile at stake. The nation
there was no time for deliberation, when the House as he thought the question ought to be determined.
knows and feels it to be so; it feels it in all the
ramifications of its commerce, in all the elements of was thin, and when it would have no opportunity of Mr. S
YKES supported the motion.
wealth and greatness—it feels in the very husbandry
following up the motion by any practical measure. ' Mr. URE took a contrary view of the case. •
Lard W. RUSSELL agreed that the case of
He conceived that the Noble Lord rather moved
of its soil, time staple of its power and prosperity—and
time resolutions with a view to an understanding
.. East Retford was not one of peculiar delinquency,
it feels, too, that it is not safe to trust to burgage
that in the next Session he would renew the subject,
...
inasmuch as rune-tenths of the Members of time
tenures and proprietary influence what should be
and go into details. At the present period, when he House were returned by the means now so severely
confided to a chaster representation. The disease,
no doubt, is of long standing, but the seat of it has r . .
believed that in two days time public business would dep Fiatt.d. If an opportunity of giving the writ
been well ascertained, and it will require no great ,
enable the House to adjourn, could the Noble Lord to Birmingham had offered itself, he should most
skill in political anatomy to remove the parts expect that House to assent to Resolutions readily have availed himself of it ; but as there was
affected : they cannot be cured—they must be cut that,
which branded with disgrace a considerable no chance of he should vote for the issue of
awa
portion of the representative system of this coun- the writ rather than throw the franchise into the
Y
try ? Time second Resolution affirmed the small Hundred.
Boroughs to be a disgrace to the House.— Sir J. SEBRIGHT said that bad as he thought
If he could admit this, he should not attempt to the Borough, it would be a worse evil to give the
persuade the House to such an unqualified con. writ to the Hundred.
demnation, without following up that condemnation Mr. N. CALVERT reprobated the petition and
by some practical measure- But he was not pre- the guilty parties from whence it came.
pare • dto allow that the small boroughs were a dis. Mr- BRIGHT was of opinion that so much need-
grace to the House. Many of the trustees of small less delay had occurred in prosecuting the investi-
boroughs exercised the trust reposed in them with gation that it would be unjust to withal(' the
honour to themselves and advantage to the country. writ until the protracted inquiry should be con-
But if such boroughs were to be disfranchised, surely eluded.
the House ought to be prepared with some plan by Mr. BROUGHAM partook very much in the
which such forfeited franchises were to be exercised, feeling that this subject had been so often discussed
By negativing the motion, the subject would not be that the House had good reason to be tired of it,
lost; for a Noble Lord (Lord John Russell) had but he holed that it was now about to be brought
given notice of a motion for the next Session, that to a close, at least far tile present. He could not
the towns of Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds, coincide in the reasons some Hon. Gentlemen had
should be represented in that House. The House given for voting for the issue of the writ, although
would be long before it condemned a part of the he arrived at the same conclusion by a different
system by which it had often been enabled to over- road. He entertained sanguine hopes that the in-
come local prejudices. He was not sure that it was quiry regarding East Retford would be renewed in
not by the aid of small boroughs that the question of the next Session, but in the mean time lie thought
free trade and Catholic emancipation had been car- there was no inconsistency in issuing the writ, and
tied. It was hardly treating the subject with due on some accounts that course was preferable, inas-
consideration to introduce it at such a period of the much as the investigation might hereafter be con-
Session. ducted in the presence, and with the assistance of
Mr. J. C. HOBHOUSE said, that if he thought two representatives, to guard the interests of the
the introduction of army reform would make the borough. Such had been the course in the case of
House less inclined to the grant of religious liberty Grampound, and he himself urged its propriety.
to his country, he would rather that the House lt was one thing to vote that East Retford was cor-

" Immedicabile vulnus
Ense reeblendum, ne pars sineera trahatur."

Entertaining, therefore, Sir, these sentiments, and
impressed with a strong feeling, that in the existing
ciretunsfitnces of the country (which it would be
idle for any man to seek to disguise from himself),
it would be expedient for the House not to separate,
without evincing some disposition to take this ques-
tion into its consideration at no distant period, I
have thought it my duty, at this eleventh hour, to
direct the attention of Hon. Members to it ; and I
shall conclude my present observations by conjuring
them to bear in mind the ever-memorable words of
Mr. Burke, as cites by Mr. Fox—" Representation
(not the unreal mockery, but the efficient substance
of Representation) is the sovereign remedy for every
disorder, the infallible security against popular
discontent."

Mr. O'NEIL said, I rise to second the Resolu-
tions which my Noble Friend has so ably brought
before the House; deeply impressed with their im-
portance, and fully aware of my own inability to do
justice to the subject. The Reformation which my
Noble Friend wishes to effect will not, it must be
conceded, close all the sources by which corruption
may taint this House; it cannot even be contended
that the close Borough System is one of unmixed
evil. A glance around us would offer a practical
illustration that such a doctrine was fallacious; for
we see amongst the Representatives of close Bo-