The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-04 00:00:00

CATHOLIC CLAIMS.

Petitions against these claims were presented by Colonel
11,chfort, from the noblemen, gentlemen, and freeholders
of the county of Westmeath ;—by General King, from two
parishes in Roscommon ;—by Mr. Balfour, from the ma-
gistrates and town council of the borough of Pittenweeni,
in Fifeshire;—and by Mr. Williams, from the inhabitants
of Dnrchester.—Ordered to be printed.
Petitions in favour of these claims were presented by Sir
Gorge Robinson, from three different congregations of
Pr.)tetant D,ssetite,s in Northampton ; by Lord G. Ca-
vendish, from the Unitarian Christians of Be!per, and
from tile Presbyterians of Duffield,. both m tie county of
Dei by ; and by Mr. H. White, from the parishes of Great
Brothic, Crumlin, Rathfarnhain, and Tallaght, in the
county of Dublin.
Mr. 31ORGAN presented a petition from tl:e inhabi-
tant.' of Brecknock, against any further concessions to the
Catholics.

Colonel WOOD would not, after the long debates in
which the House had just been engaged, read the resolu-
tions to which the petitioners had conic, and upon which
their petition was founded. They were most temperate
and conciliatory in their language—they expressed their
regret at the disturbed state of Ireland, and their readiness
to concur in any measures for the tranquillity of Ireland,
consistent with the safety of the Protestant Constitution.
They stated their alarm and anxiety at hearing that a pro-
position was under consideration to admit Roman Catho-
lics to political power. They also declared their williog-
ness to adopt the recommendation contained in the speech
t:f his Majesty from the throne—namely, to consider, with
calmness and deliberation, whether the disabilities of their
Catholic brethren can be removed without encroaching on
the safety of the Protestant church ; and if they could ba
removed, they declared their determination not to oppose
them. Reserving to himself the opportunity of delivering
his opinions on the measure of concession, when it should
he produced, and not choosing to press an opinion upon it
now, when nothing wis known of the securities which it
provided, he should now sit down, merely observing, that
when it was proposed, be should support or oppose it as
his conscience dictated.

The petition was then brought op. On the clerk's
reading it as a petition against further concessions to the
Catholics, there was a general cry of " No, no." It was
ordered to he printed.
Sir J. 0. COTTERELL presented a petition, nume-
rously and respectably signed, from the inhabitants of the
city of Hereford, against further concessions to the Roman
Catholics.

Viscount EASTNOR said that the petition was mode-
rately and temperately worded, and agreed to by a large
majority of the persons assembled at the Meeting. Inas-
much as this petition expressed a hope that the Roman
Catholics would not he admitted to seats in either House
of Parliament, he could not accord with its prayer. It
was painful, extremely painful to him, to be opposed to a
petition so numerously and respectably signed, from the
city which he bad the honour to represent. Having ever
since he had the honour of a seat in that House uniformly
felt it his Jut to support the Catholic claims, and feeling
that duty to he now impressed upon his mind more strongly
than ever, he should continue to act on the principles
which he had formerly espoused, and should therefore sup-
port the receet requisition of the Crown.
Mr. E. B. CLIVE corroborated the statements of his
Noble Colleague as to the respectability of these petitions.
He trusted that when the Bill of Relief came under con-
sideration, maTiy gentlemen would give it their support
who now thought that they must oppose it. The petition
was ordered to be printed.
Mr. B. CLIVE presented a petition from a number of
freemen of the city of Hereford, of a contrary import from
that just presented by the Noble Lord. It prayed the
House to take into its most serious consideration the pro-
priety of conciliating the pecy!e of Ireland, by a removal
of suds grievances as were capable of being redressed con-
sistent with the preservation of the Constitution and the
stability of the Throne. This petition was signed by 250
of :he freemen. The petition was laid on the table.
Mr. CORRY presented a petition against the Cethoiie
claims, from Newtown Stewart, county of Ty roue.
Lord •TULLAAIORE presented a petition from several
Protestant Dissenters of Falandibrd-street Chapel, Manches-
ter-square, against tl.e Catholic chains.
Mr. BELL presented a petition from Haltnurthwistle,
in the county of Durham, against the Catholic claims.

• (3
Mr. LID DELL admitted•that these petitioners were re—
spectable, and entitled to declare their sentiments, still it
was right to add, they lived in too retired and secluded a
state of society to be able to form a very decided opinion
upon points of emergency connected with questions of great
national policy. There were, he believed, in the same
neighbourhood many excellent Dissenters, who, during the
legislative discussion a year ago, upon the Corporation and
Test Laws, expressed their wonder that Parliament should
be taking so much trouble in their behalf upon Acts of
which they had themselves never kard before that nutrient.
Mr. BELL begged in explanation to say, that this pe-
tition in three days, received 500 signatures, which were
voluntarily given, without the slightest sinister influence of
their clergy, or any body else. He could bear testimony

to the respectability of these parties. The petition was
hid on the table.
Mr. GEORGE MOORE begged present the petition
of a tatmerobs body of the inhabitants of the parish of St.
Leonard, Shoreditch, which was the result of a public
meeting, regularly convened by a equisition from the
churchwardens, and held in vestry. (here was besides a
food deal of discussion at the meeting ; there w,q.e counter
resolutions proposed, and in the event this petition was
adopted; and signed by 6,763 of the inhabitants of the
district, and if it had not been that about 3,000 more hut
11)./ riiista6 signed their names to the general London and
Westminster petition (a laugh), they would have sub-
scribed this document. He had a personal interview with
a depntatiOn from those who bad signed this petition, and
lie never met with more sensible or calif' people.

The petition was then read short, and upon the sentence
being read in which the petitioners express a hope that no
Minister will pass any measure that can undermine the
stability ef tht Ooe,
Mr. ALEX. BARING rose and said, that from the
speech which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had made
and the allusion to the sense of the petitioners, he had
been disposed to anticipate that this petition Was one
aglinst any concession to the Catholics; yet, what was his
surprise when he had heard it read, to find it was one
which every gentleman, who was anxious to have that
question settled, could most conscientiously sign—for it
most expressively desired them not to undermine the sta-
biiity of his Majesty's Throne.
Mr. GEORGE MOORE remarked that if the Hon.
Member had looked at the petition as a whole, and if he
had coupled it with the discussion from which it had
emanated, he would have seen that it plainly declared the
incompatibility of the principles of concession now claimed
in behalf of the Catholics with the security of the Protest-
ant Constitution.

Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN knew a little of the prae-
tires resorted to in getting up these parochial petitions, and
from that knowledge he would venture to say that the
great majority who signed them knew little or nothing of
what they were about, or of the purport of the document.
He had never witnessed such acts as had been used to get
up these petitions. The invitations to sign were not,—
" Will you enter and put your name to a petition against
the course recommended in his Majesty's Speech for the
consideration of the disabilities affecting his Majesty's Ca-
tholic subjects?" but, " Will you sign a petition against
Popery?" There was likewise, this indecement held out,
that every person who signed it should have a printed copy
of the luminous speech of his Royal Highness the Duke of
Cumberland.—(A laugh.)—He wanted to get a copy of
this oration, but had some difficulty, as the signature to
the petition wasenforced as an indispensible preliminary.
And this was the prectice in most of the places where
these petitions were arranged for signature. I hold, con-
tinued the Worthy Alderman, the hand-bill which is dis-
tributing from these shops at this moment. It begins—
" People of England, listen to the warning voice of
the worthy son of your late great, good, and moral
King, of precious end glorious memory, George the
Third."—(Cries of Hcar, hear, hear, from the Do•
nourable Members who supported these petitions.) He must
really pause for a moment, and ask Hon. Members who
cher red such appeals as that which be had read, whether
they did not by implication cast a gross and foul imputa-
tion upon the other three illustrious sons of his late Ma-
jesty who advocated this cause.—(Hear, hear.) The hand-
bill went on to say, " Listen to the warning voice of the
worthy son of your great and good Protestant King, whom
God may for ever ideas, who asks you, is this country in
future to be a Protestant or a Popish one ?—continue
eilent, and it meet become a Popish one—speak cut, and
it must remain Protestant."—(Hear, hear.)—lf there were
Hon. Members who thought this note the mode t.) promote
fair and open petitions, all Inc should say was, he envied
them neither their feelings nor their principles. He knew
that many Hon. Friends of his had been chargett with
throwing imputations upon the petitions of their oppo-
nents ; but be defied any man to show hint such asper-
sions as these bills contained. In other parts of the town,
wlre:e Catholic petitions were lying for signatures, men
were stationed with large placards, on which were in-
scribed in large letters " Beware of the No-Popery peti-
tion." These were surely shameful aria for any men to
resort to in an argumentative question. And he was sorry
to say, that nanny of these petitions were set on foot by
clergymen, churchwerdens, constables, beadles, sextons,
hell-ringers, and even grave-diggers in certain parishes.
If there were any great danger impending over the Pro-
testant religion, the influence of the clergy ought to be
u=ed in a different way to sooth men's minds, and prepare
them for the controversy by milder and more creditable
expedients. If they could not do so in a becoming manner,
far better were it for them to leave the perishable things of
this world to those who beet understood them, and to
confine themselves careodly to the proper sphere of their
own duties, in imparting religious • nstruction to those
of their flock., who might happen to want it. These
petitions were, he repeated, signed by all manner of
iudivi-
du by boys who ran about rapidly from place to place, and
were busy in all directions scribbling their names; nuinheis
of the signatures were in the same handwriting. These
were mean and unworthy practices, which disgraced the
parties resorting to them. Let it not be said, that the
right of the common people to petition should be restricted
rr ithin narrow hounds. But this was not the way to ex-
ercise any such right ; on the contrary, it was the surest
means of bringing that valuable privilege into contempt.
Mr. MOORE—Not a single observation bas fallen
from the worthy Alderman which either applies to the
matter of this petition, or of my speech.
Mr. BROUGHAM wished it to be perfectly enderstood,
that though it was quite true this petition had been signed
by thousands, and though it was likewise true there hail
been a majority of two or three to one in favour of it at the
vestry meeting, yet there had not been anything like the
number of thousands in attendance at the concoction of it
at the parish meeting. In fact, as he was informed, there
were not much above 200 attending there, and the rejec-
tion of the amendment was carried by about 150 to 50.
Now, the Catholic petition which had emanated from the
same parish, was signed by 11 or 1,200 persons.
Mr. G. MOORE—No; the numbers were, as far as
lam informed of the division, 169 to 63. At least such
was the division at the close of the day. There had been
a much fuller attendance at an earlier hour, but many had
gone away in disgust at some expressions of the opposite
party.
Mr. BROUGHAM—WeII, that is not the account
given to me by one of those who attended the meeting.
Mr. A. BARING—The fact is, that nobody can doubt
the existence of great excitement upon the subject, and
that considerable difference of opinion prevails concerning
it. Now, although none could be more anxious than he
always was, and would be, to enable the people to come
down with their petitions to that House, still he could not
tolerate the practice of such arts as had been describM to
them. It was notorious that in different parts both of
town and country, these petitions had been got up by dint
of statements founded upon some horrid recital of barbarity
perpetrated in gone-by times, and couched in descriptions
which the language of common sense at once showed to be
absurd, and which any man of common honesty wapiti
have disdained to use. Ev'rry man knew that these arts
were in full operation throughout the country, and sonic
people were found casuists enough to endeavour to justify
the means by the end. ItTpon these London petitions he
hoped to be just permitted to state, that the Common
Council of London ought to he taken as a fair specimen of
the opinions of the citizens, and yet that Common Council
had, after some discussion, by a majority ef, he believed,
two to one, not given a vague arid general opinion as these
other petitioners did, but in precise words recommended,
and in direct terms eoforced, the propriety of removing
the penal laws affecting their Catholic fellow-subjects, as
the only way of pacifying wretched Ireland, and giving
general security to the country at large.—(Hear.)
Mr. O'NEILL said, that the voice of England was de-
cidedly against concession. With respect to tine obeerva-
tion which had fallen from the Worthy Alderman, he could
have wished, Wore he attacked the Clergymen of England,
he had taken tine trouh'e to glence a little at tile move•
menus of the priests of Ireleod, and see how the Clare
election had been carried on by their influence
After a few words foein Colonel SILITIICRpte, the pee
titian wee lei(' on the table.
Mr. MOORE rose to present the petition of the princi-
pal l'eotestents of the county of Dahlia, which com-
plained in the strongest terms of the conduct 01 the Cetho-
lic Association, of the priests at the Irish elections, and
the rpiritual dominion which they so arhitraril7 exercised
over four-fifths of the 'forty-shilling freeholders. This
petition was signed by 2,000 Protestants of the county of
Dublin, among whom were five Peers, and a ,great body
of the magistrates, clergy, and most influential Protestants.
Mr. H. GRAT FAN gave the :assertion relatioe to the
undue influence of tire Roman Catholic priests; an unqua-
lified eontradiction.
Mr. A. DA'M'SON could not allow the freeholders of
the county of Lomh to be maligned by the freeholders of
the county of Dublin. Ile did not owe his election to the
influence or intrigues of the Roman Catholic priests, and
had never appealed to the religious feelings and le ejudices
of the populetion. If the Roman Catholic priests did
exert the influence which their order naturally give them
among the people when the interests of their religion %vete
at stake, they bad exerted it in a very different manner
front that represented, and surelyud l thet Ir' eneli
eeitesitabnertecdletrigiayt I)
the
i
an
set them an example. It should

Protestant clergy had less reason to set an exampre of po-
litical interference, for they were protected by a Pro-
testant King, Protestant Lords, a Protestant House of
Commons, and a Protestant Constitution. They bad every
means of protection, and had therefore little excuse for
their conduct.

Mr. MOORE said, in.lreland a spiritual and coercive
influence, in the strongest and strictest sense of the words,
was exercised by the Roman- Catholic clergy over their
flocks in political matters. A comparison had been made
between the conduct of the Protestant and Roman Catholic
clergy--a comparison which he begged leave to pronounce
utterly grown-Hem The Protestant church did not recog-
nize the principle of coercion, and it was one on which
Protestant clergymen would never act. It should be re-
collected, that the Protestant clergyman was not only a
Minister of the Gospel, but a freeholder and a citizen. In
his capacity of freeholder, lie had a right to attend at elec-
tron, and vote : as a citizen, he had a right to use the in-
flnence afforded him by his station and abilities, not to
coerce men's opinions, by spiritual tyranny, but to
draw them into unison with his own, by means of rea-
son and sound argument. He had no doubt, that to this
extent, and by these means, but to this extent, and by theme
• means only, had the Protestant clergy influenced the opinion
of the country. The conduct of the Rontan Catholic priests
was widely different—they used their spiritual influence
to work upon the political sentiments of their followers.
With respect to the unqualified contradiction given by his
Hon. Colleague to the statement relative to the Catholic
clergy, of course his Hon. Friend spoke frogs the informa-
tio❑ he had received, and to the best of his belief; but in
answer to this contradiction he (Mr. Moore) was ready to
state from his own personal knowledge that his Hon. Col-
league was mistaken. In truth, he had been a member of
the Committee appointed by the House to try the merits of
the petition, presented against the last contested return for
the county of Dublin, and one of the ,e-rounds on which
that petition went, consisted in the influence exerted on
the voters by the Roman Catholic clergy. iie knew that
there were witnesses in attendance OR that Committe ready
to prove the fact—prepared to prove that the Roman Ca-
tholic priests did interfere and exercise a coercive influence
over the freeholders by means of spiritual denunciations.

Mr. H. GRATIXN had not made the statement which
he did with respect to the Roman Catholic cleigy, on in-
formation or opinions conveyed to him by others, but from
his own knowledge. An inquiry was made into the alle-
gation, which was found, after the fullest investigation, to
be entirely groundless. The assertion was a part of the
disgraceful efforts making to delude the minds of the
people of England with respect to the Roman Catholic
Question. Some of the individulls who made these
charges against the priests were put to the trial in the
county of Waterford, and they could not prove their allega-
tions ; they were put to the test in the county of Lomb,
and they failed in substantiating them; they were put to
the test in the county of Dablin, and they were not more

successful; they were again tried in the county of Mo-
naghan, but they did not. succeed ; in none of these in-
stances could they prove one of their charee.i. They
were publicly challenged to prove what they asserted
80 loudly—the existence of an undue influence on the
part of the Retort Catholic clergy ; but they feared
to attempt it—they abandoned their clients, and,
as the Honourable and reamed Gentleman would
say, suffered judgment to gat by default.—Tlie
Hon. alomher ought to recollect that a Protestant
clergyman had said, "the curet of Cromwell was too good
. _

for the Roma❑ Catholics." In explanation of this denun-
ciation, it was necessary to observe, that when Cromwell
carried his victorious arms into Ireland, the Papists were
driven across the Shannon, and the only alternative left
them was the power of selection between " Hell or Con-
naNht." Soda was the " curse of Cromwell." Was it
to lie expe,ted that in the l9th century a Protestant cler-
gyman should go up and say that " the curse of Cromwell
was too good for the Roman 'Catholics ?" The parties
who forwarded petitions like the present to the Legislature
must have gone into the kennels of Dublin, the Shore-
ditches of the Irish metropolis, in search of the mass of

bigotry and intolerance which they had brought forward.
Air. O'NEILL believed that he was the naly attentive
member of the county of Dublin election committee (a
laugh); and was satisfied, from whit came to his know-

ledge, the whole bench of Protestant bishops had not so
much power over their flocks as was possessed by the
humblest and lowest Roman Catholic curate over his fol-

lower&

Mr. G. DAWSON isaid, it was impossible to hear the
ohservations made on both sides, while discussing this
question, without feelings of the greatest pain and regret.
If the question were to go on, and be made a subject of dis-
sension, as it hitherto had, when and where were we to find
an end ? In what party of the country (he addressed him-
self more particularly to the Irish Gentlemen ix the [louse)
could peace and tranquillity be obtained, so long as this
master remained unsettled? The moat unhappy discords
and animosities prevailed, every institution of the country,
even the dearest rights of Englishmen, were vilified and
abused in turn by the opponents and supporters of this
question, as it suited their respective ends. The privilege '
of petitioning itself was objected to—the dearest blessings
of our Constitution were represented as evils, all through
party feeling. Who could sit quietly by and hear such pro-
positions asserted by those who supported or opposed the
intended nieasures of relief, without feeling distressed at
the course adopted, and perceiving the great injury done to
the State by the protracted agitation of this question?—
Who could hear the opinions passed upon the conduct of
the clergy without a strong feeling of the mischief likely to
ensue from such discussions? We heard the Protestant
clergy abused for exerting themselves on this subject and
assumiag a political character. We heard the priests ♦ili-
fied and abused for displaying their spiritual influence for
secular purposes. How was all this to end ? What good
could result from stating that the Roman Catholic priests
had exerted their influence for the accomplishment of
political ends? Ile believed it was notorious that they
had done so : but as matters 110 W stood, could his
Honourable Friend prevent them front so exerting
the influence which they possessed over the minds of the
people? Would not the epithets applied to Roman Catholic
Pt iests provoke those individuals still further, and exaspe-
rate to a greater degree existing animosities? What pros-
pect of peace or tranquillity had we if such conduct were
to be contimued, and if lion. Gentlemen, by their able and
eloquent speeches, were to go on exasperating matters in
this manner ? We now saw Ole mischiefs arising from
tnaking a religious question a subject of debate; we saw
the alai m, disorder, and ill-feeling which it created ; setting
man against man, father against son, and brother against
brother. That was the result of the discussion.
Mr. LLOYD remarked, that much credit was not to
be attached to the evidence of the generality of witnesses
examined before Election Committees. They were not
unfi equently perjured.
Mr. MOORE considered himself justified in alluding to

the alleged conduct of the Homan Catholic Priests, when
presenting a petition, one of the prayers of which was for
the disfranchisement of the Irish 40s. freeholders, on the

ground of their being under the influence of the Catholic
Clergy. He had endeavoured to allow in what manner
that influence was exerted.—The petition was ordered to
he printed.

Mr. BANKE i presented a petition signed by 600 per-
sons, inhabitants of the parish of Sturrninstcr Newton, in
the county of Dorset, against further concessions to the
Catlndies.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. FYLF.II., in presenting a petition to the same effect
from Covent-y, observed, that it was agreed to at a public
meeting of the inhabitants of than asicient city, and had at-
tached to it 3,915 signatures. It was signed by a majo-
rity of the most respectable inhabitants. There was a
counter-petition also respectably signed, but by only 905
persons. For himself, he could only say, ha woshi never
consent to hare the great bulwarks of our Constitution iu
Church and State rudely trampled down, and the Protest-
ant Church left naked and defenceles.i, to the attacks of its
ambitions and darin.,4 rival.

Rlr. IL E. HEATHCOTE thought, if Ministers intro-
duced a mea=nre that would not endanger the safety of the
Ff,taldiihed Chutch, that the major part ot the persons
who had signed the petition just presented by his Hon.
Colleague would willingly concur in it. He said this
pertl from whet he knew of the spirit that actuated his
constituents, and partly from the artifices that were resorted
to in order to procure signatures to the petition. Parties
were canvassed as at an election, for their sentiments and
signatures, and a bulletin of the two petitions was re,;u-
lady published, like the state of the poll. The close of
the poll was thus announced—" Signatures against
Popery, 3,915 ; for Popery, 905." A number of persons
wh, si,zned the petition now presented did so in the belief
that they were opposing the establishment of the Popish
religion in this country. He would support a measure
calculated, as he conceived, to promote the hest interests
of this Country, and presvrve our Constitution, as at pre-
sent established, in Church and State.

Mr. FYLER defen.ltd the canvass that had taken place
to uncertain the stntiments of his constituents on this ruh-
ject.—The petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. LEGIT KECK rose to present a petition from the
county of Leicester against further concessions to the Ro-
?mut Catholic,. The petition was signod by 19,103 per-
sons, a;nong wham were the Lord Lieutenant of the
county, the High Sheriff, two Earls, six Baronets, 30
County Magistrates, the Mayor and Corporation of the
town of 125 Clergymen, and the majority of
shGentLees
Gentry, Freeholders, and respectable inhabitants of the

district. There was a smaller petition of a similar nature,
with 101 signatures, which came too late to be embodied
with the present. The majority of the inhabitants of the
district were deeply alive on the subject of the petition;
that the inhabitants were unanimous in their approbation
of it he did not say ; no such thing could be expected. In-
deed, he understood there was a counter-petition, but how
signed, or to what extent, he could not state. He was
sorry to confess he had been deceived in the conduct of his
Majesty's Ministers, and he spoke it with sincere regret ;
he could not perceive that they were, in their present mode
of acting, influenced by sentiments which ought to induce
the Members of that House to repose in them their confi-
dence any longer. The general argument in favour of the
innovation was, that it would tend to tranquillize Ireland.
If it were possible to do so by even this concession, no man
• in that House would more gladly make the experiment, but
he could not for the soul of him induce himself to believe
that any such result would follow. Certain letters, no
doubt circulars, for he was no otherwise entitled to receive
them than any other Member of that house, hail been sent to
him penned by him, signed by the late agent of the Catholic
Association, which contained doctrines that must undeceive
every one, and show that nobody could calcul ite on the re-
nunciation of all political power and influence over Ireland
on the part of the Pope, should the contemplated measure
of concession to the Catholic party be carried by the Legis-
lature. Because that writer had volunteered the assurance
that nothing short of unqualified, unmitigated political con-
cession would be accepted. This gratuitous avowal, by an
authorized agent of the Catholics of Ireland, had gone a
great way to convince him, and he was convinced further
of the possibility of its being perfectly consistent with
truth from reading a lately published " Memoir of the
Duke de Rovigo," wherein it was proved, that the power
and political influence of the Pope was most effectively op-
posed to the measures of even Buonaparte himself, at the
very period when the Roman Pontiff was carried into
France as his prisoner. As long us he felt that this might
be again the case—as long as he had their own assurances
for it, that no concession, except political concession on the
broadest principle, unreserved and unqualified, would satisfy
the Catholics of Ireland, he must be allowed to act in ac-
cordance with his own sentiments and the dictates of pro-
dence.—( Hear. )
Mr. OTWAY CAVE—It is a little extraordinary if
the county of Leicester, and the town of Leicester, are as
adverse as they are represented to Catholic Emancipation,
that no public meeting has been held to declare the senti-
ments of either town or county.—(Hear.)—There have
been four public meetings held from time to time of the
contrary tendency, and those meetings were unanimous in
favour of concession.—(Hear.)—Great pains were taken
to get up the present petition, and it, no doubt, was res-
pectably and numerously signed, but the promoters of it
did not venture to trust it before an assembly of the free-
holders of the county.—(llear.)—With regard to the opi-
nions which the Hon. Gentlemen has avoNed respecting
his Majesty's Government, I must sly I beerd them with
surprise and astonishment. I can say, indeed, I have the
proof in my possession that scarcely twelve months ago,
when a Noble Peer, now in the other House (Lord Gods-
rich), WB5 at the head of the Administration, the Hon.
Gentleman felt no such qualms of conscience in giving iu
his adhesion, inasmuch as he made a request of that Go-
vernmeet which was considered as tantamount to an obli-
gation to support that Administration.—(Hear, hear.)—
I am quite willing, if neeessary, to prove.—(Hear, and
question.)—At least I must express my surprise at the
extreme horror, terror, and fears of Popery, now as-owed,
when I do not recollect that any such horror was expressed
when a Catholic advocate was at the head of his Mejeety's
Government.—(Hear.)
Mr. LEGH KECK, on bringing up the petition, oh-
served he was certainly surprised at what he had just
heard. He was at first at a loss to know to what the Hon.
Member alluded when he spoke of an appointment which
had been solicited by.Jaim for a friend. At length he had
recollected something about an application which he once
casually made in favour of a person, he really could not
recollect his name,—(.‘ Gregory, Gregory," interrupted
Mr. 0. Cave.)—Yes, it was in favour of a Mr. Gregory,
for whoes he had eppl'ed for a situation under the stamp-
office.—(Hear.)—Now really of this person he knew
very little, and was no more connected with hint than the
Member next to him ; but suffice it to say, he had been
recommended by him to that Noble Lord as a worthy
person strongly recommended for that situation. Upon his
honour as a gentleman, he had used no other argument ;
and so far from making this appointment a point with the
Minister, he had said that if it were only to be obtained
through a representation that it was expected as a personal
favour to himself, this Mr. Gregory never could expect to
get it, for he (Mr. L. Keck) would not accept it. (Hear.)
There was another error of which he wished to disabuse
the Hon. Member ; for lie was a very unfortunate man in
this respect, and often called on to make use of a col ice-
tion of this kind, however unpalatable it might prove.—
Now, this was worse than even being under an obligation
to the Minister—namely, that the Honourable Member
had taken it into his head that he (Mr. Legh Keck) was
under an obligation to the Honourable Member himself
(Mr. 0. Cave.—" I said no such thing.") He would ap-
peal to the chair whether is was not in its recollection that
on a firmer occasion he had said that the magistrates of
the county of Leicester had not removed sufficiently soon
as they ought to have done, under the concurrent jurisdic-
tion act, the prisoners to the county gaol, whereby an un-
necessary expense was incurred by his constituents. Now,
this was a misrepreeentation, and he so explained it. Pos-
sibly that Hon. Alember thought it hard, but he had not
any intention to press it unkindly. Of his old friends be
might be weary; he had known hint from infancy, and
therefore could not be dispeeed to prejudice that Hon.
Member. He would, however, say, and it was really now
drawn from hint by that Hon. Member's conduct, that he
sincerely wished he might find even one friend amongst
those he had joined like any of the many he had abandoned.
Mr. OTWAY CAVE was p•rfectly unconscious, alter
all that had been said, of any extraordinary kindness ex-
hibited by the Hon. Member personally to himself.
The petition was read and ordered to be printed ; as
was also a similar ene from Yarborough, presented by Mr.
UGH KECK. • •
Similar petitions were presented by Mr. KEMP from
Lewes; by Mr. JOHN Woon from Wallington, and the
Protestant Dissenters of Chorley in Lancashire; by Admi-
ral EVANS from Kiltevea and Croome, in the county of
Limerick ; from Clonmore, in the county of Carlow ; and
law petitions by Mr. Concert from different chapels in
Brighton and the neighbourhosel.
Mr. H. HOWARD presented a petition from the inha-
bitants and visitants of Worthing, in favour of the mea-
sure of concession to the Catholics, which, he conceived,
would be a satisfactory answer to all those who contended
there was an unanimous feeling of hostility to concessions
in the inhabitants of Susses.
Mr. ALEX. DAWSON presented 31 petitions from
Drogheda ; from Ardee, Killelee, and other
places in Ireland, and Macclesfield, in Cheshire, in favour
of concessions ; also a petition from Tullyallen against the
vestry acts.—Ordered to be printed.
Captain GUST presented a petition from Whalley, in
Lanceishire, and another front Suffolk, against Catholic
emancipation.
Mr. DUNCOMBE presented 28 petitions from York,
Sheffield, notley, Stockton, Weatherby, and other places
in Yorkshire, against further concession.
In reply to a question from the Hon. Member, the
CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in the absence of his
Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel), said, that on Thursday his
Right Hon. -Friend intended to submit a motion calculated
to give effect to the recommendation contained in his Ma-
jesty's most gracious Speech relative to the disabilities of
his Roman Catholic subjects. The notice had not been in
the usual way inserted in the orders, because his Right
lion. Friend had not the opportunity to insert it, as he
was not regularly returned to Parliament:untii this day.—
Petitions ordered to be printed.
Lord CASTLEREAGH presented a petition from Long
Island. in Downshire, in favour of concession; also peti-
tions from Swords,;against the sub-letting act and the
vestry act.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. 11. TREVOR presented petitions from Bangor, in
Carnarvonshire, and other 'deco; in Wales, against further
conceesien.—Olderlll ho he printed.
Mr. SLANEY gave notice that he should, after Easter,
introduce a Illotion on the subject of the burden's and re-
strictions on brewing, and the supply of malt liquors ler
the middle and lower orders of society. He also should
move foe returns of the sums of money levied and issued
in the year ending tie 25th of March, 1818, tOr the ser-
vice of the poor of this country, and rite number of re-
movals in England and Wales during the same period.
Mr. 0. CAVE presented a petition from Leicester in
favour of the Catholic Claims. The Hon. Member stated
that the petition had 5,000 signatures, which it had re•
ceived in one day and a half. Its prayer was leased on the
principles—in their widest and best sense—of civil and re-
ligious liberty ; and he trusted the day was not far distant
when such principle.; would need no advocate in a British
Legislature. lie hoped shortly to he able to congratulate
the petitioners on the success of their prayer, and that he
might see Mr. O'Connell and other Catholics in their
places in that liouee.
Sir C. HASTINGS begged leave to protest against the
petition jest presented by his Hon. Colleague being r eceived
as the expression of the sentiments of the pe vle of Lei-
cester, or even of the persons front whom the petition was
alleged to have emanated, on the Catholic claims. He

was ready to prove, at the bat of the Meuse, that many of
those signatures letd been surreptitiously Obtained—that
some of them were actual forgeries, and some of them of
persons who never sass, the petition.—(Hear, hear.),
Mr. 0. CAVE stated, in reply to his Hon. Colleagues
that he had received the petition from a gentle4irOf the
highest respectability, who would be incapable orkanetion-
ing such n mode of obtaining signatures. Unless, there-
fore, his lion. Colleague would take it upon hiMself to
state that hie allegations were founded on his own personal
knowledge of the fact, and not upon hearsay informations
he must object to more credence being given by the Hood
to his Hon. Colleague's assertions, than to his (Sle. G.
Cave's) counter-assertion, as both were equally founded On
private communications.
i Sir C. HASTINGS said, his information would enable
him to prove his allegation* at the bar of the House if ne-
' cessary.
Mr. 0. CAVE was ready to give the names or the got'
tlerncn from whoko he had derived his information cog.
cern-ing the petition, if his Hon. Colleague would also
state the names of his informants.—(llear, hear.)—He
must say, in justice to his (Mr. 0. Cave's) informants,
that in point of fortune, intellect, and character, they were
to the full as respectable as his lion. Colleague was ree
ported to be.—(Hear and order.) •
Sir J. SEBRIGHT submitted it to the gond sense of
the House, whether it should permit its time to be takes
up with such an unsatisfactory discussion as that thee
under its notice.—(Bear, hear.)
Mr. HUME was unwilling to trespass on the time of
the House. (A laugh.) lion. Members might laughs
but he bad been in that House since one o'clock, and had
not opened his mouth before. (Hear, and laughter.) With
respect to the statements made by the lion. Baronet (Sir
C. Hastings) concerning the petition just presented by
his Hon. Friend, he thought it imperative on the Hon.
Baronet to substantiate his charge at once, by either
giying the names of his informants, or by stating his pet.-
sone! knowledge of the facts he had asserted.—(Hear.)
Sir C. BURRELL contended, that the Hon. Baronet
had no right to state the names of the gentlemen to whom
he was indebted for the information which he had stated
to the House.
Sir C. HASTINGS concurred with the lion. Baronet,
and therefore felt himself bound not to state the names of
his informants. The Hon. Member for Aberdeen had
mistaken bins if he supposed that he (Sir C. )laving')
meant to implicate or mix up his Hon. Colleague with the
circumstances which he had felt it to be his duty to state
concerning the petition just presented to the House.. He
did not believe that his Hon. Colleague was acquainted
with those circumstances, and therefore could not have in?.
',heated him in them.
Mr. A. BARING considered the charge made by the
Hon. Baronet to be of so serious a nature, that the Hon.
Baronet was bound to make it good, by at once stating
the names of those persons upon whom a forgery had been
committed.

Sir C. HASTINGS had a list at home of the forged
signatures, the exact number of which he did not then re•
collect. Till he .11,01 consulted that list, he could only
sprak of three na►ues positively A 5 forgeries,--namely,
those of Cooke, Sitin, and Pinder.

Alderman NVAITHAIAN thought it will dne to the
House by the Hon. Baronet to explain all the circum-
stmees connected with those names, in order that the Hausa
might be able to jude, whether accident or design was
the cause of their signatures not being fairly annexed to
the petition.

Mr. 0. CAVE was then enibled to positively assert
that his Hen. Colleague 'wax incorrect, so far as the name of
Air. Cooke was concerned ; for he (Mr. CI ye) had a letter
from that gentlemAn. in which he ratA, that he not oar
signed the petition himself, hut would he responsible for the,
respectability and authenticity '1 the other signatures.--"
(Cheers)—He could not then take it upon himself to also_
deny the correctness of his Hun. Colleague's wertion re-
specting the other two nun,.

. „
The Hon. Gentleman then presented petitions from
Nenagh, Tipperary, Cashel, and eight other places in
Ireland, for Catholic Ennancipltion.—Ordered to ha

printed.
Lord G. SOMERSET presented a petition from Cher
stow against the Catholic Claims.—To tie printed.
Mr. PROBY presented two petitions from Wick--
low, in favour of Catholic Emancipation.—To be printed-
Alderman WAITHMAN presented a similar petition
from the Unitarian Protestant Dissenters of Carter-lane►
in the city of London.—To be printed.
Lord HOTHAM presented a petition from Leominster,
against concession to the Catholics. The petition, the
Noble Lord stated, had 700 signatures, which it had re-
ceived in three days, and included six-sevenths of the male
population of that borough. It was the first concerning
Carbolic Emancipation that had ever conic from Leo'
minster. His own views agreed with those of the peti-
tionerxt and he regretted that he could not conscientiousli
vote with lie Right Him. Friend (Mr. Peel), with whom.'
on all other occasions, it was his good fortune to beta
e-incurred.
Lord UXBRIDGE presented a petition from Denning.
in Perthshire, against the Catholic Claims,—To be
printed.

LUNATIC ASYLUMS.
Lord G. SOMERSE C obtained leave to bring in a Bill
to amend the Act 9 Geo. IV. c. 41, relative to the care
and treatment of insane peraonsin England.

PRIVATE LIGHTHOUSES.
Mr. HUME moved for sever ii returns relating to the,
lighthouses now held by private individuals, the nature`
and date of the leases under which they are held, together.
with copies of the correspondence between the That'll,
the Trinity-house, and those individuals, respecting then'',
As he understood it was not intended by the Chancellor 01
the Exchequer to oppose the motion, he would postpone
the discussion of them to a future occasion.

Mr. HOME DIIIPM3IOND ra,ved for leave to brill
in a Bill to render more easy the recovery of small debts in
the. Sheriff's Court in Scotland ; which, after • a rev"
words front Mr. Heats, in commendation of the Bid,- Was.
granted.
Sir A. GRANT brought up the report of the Colt:-13
mittee on Ways and Means, which was read, and a 'l'
ordered to be brought in.
Sir A. GRANT brought up the report of tha Cx°n"
mittee of Supply on the Ordnance Estimates, which were
agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. POTTER APQuEEN, the House
resolved itself into a Committee on the Settlement by air-
ing Bill.
The report, after some observations from Sir J. G"'
HAM, Mr. SLANMY, and Mr. 111‘QUEEY, was ordered to
be considered on the £7th ; the Bill in the meantime to he
printed.
CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.
Mr. DAWSON, on behalf of Mr. Peel, gave notice,
that on Thursday next the Right Hon. Secretary
vrotthl
move, that that part of his Majesty's Sprech should be,
taken into consideration which related to the removal 0'
civil disabilities in Ireland.
Mr. Alderman WOOD brought in a Bill for amending
the Acts relating to the approashea to London Bridget
which was read a first time.
After the other orders of the day had been disposed of;
the House adjourned at a Quarter to Eleven.