The Sun.
London, England, 1842-05-26 00:00:00

1.14 E .SUN', LONDON. THURSDAY EVENING, MAN' 26, IF-42.

EMPERIAL PARLIAM ENT.

(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF LORDS.

The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack
shortly before Five o'Clock.
THE COPYRIGHT BILL.

The LORD CHANCELLOR presented three peti-
tions on this subject, from the booksellers, the printers,
and the literary writers of Great Britain and Ireland.
SUNDAY TRAFFIC ON CANALS.

Lord 11 THERTON presented a petition on a subject
to which he had before brought the attention of the
House, namely, the- Sunday navigation of the canals.
The boatmen on ,canals were the only class of people
in the country who had no Sabbatic rest. The boat-
men of all the canals in the country had petitioned
against the Sunday traffic. Several boat- owners, also,
had petitioned for the same purpose, and had disconti-
nued working their boats on Sunday's without dimi-
nution of their profits. The Directors of some
Companies had also petitioned, and had done
all that lay in their power to put an end to the Sunday
navigation, but without the assistance of an Act of Par-
liament they could not enforce the suppression.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE said that the attention of the
Government had been directed to the subject, but it was
not intended to introduce any measure this session.
Lord HATHERTON expressed his satisfaction that
it was intended to bring in a Bill on the subject ; he
thought it better that such a measure should originate
with the Government, than any individual Member of
their Lordships' House.
THE TARIFF. _ .

The Duke of BUCKINGHAM presented several peti-
tions from places in the County. of Bucks, praying the
House to modify the proposed tariff.
THE CUSTOMS DUTIES (DRAWBACK) BILL.
This Bill went through Committee.
THE BEGGING LETTER.

Lord KINNAIRD rose in pursuance of a notice
which he gave on, Tuesday last, to move for a copy of
the Queen's begging letter. He could not but express
his surprise that, on that occasion, her Majesty's Minis-
ters should pretend not to know anything about it. The
letter was signed by one of the Ministers ; and, besides
that, it was quite notorious that such a letter had been
issued. He must say that it convinced him of the fact,
that the Government was carried on by only one indivi-
dual in the country—certainly one of great talent, and
one from whom he expected a great deal • but he
really seemed to think that he treated thei other
members of the Government as mere cyphers. The
speeches of that individual were very liberal ; but he
(Lord Kinnaird) must say he thought that the tariff was
a precious piece of humbug.—(Laughter.) If one indi-
vidual could carry on the Government, it really could
not be such a difficult thing to conduct a Government as
some people imagined. A Premier and half a-dozen
clerks might do it. The Noble Lord was here inter-
rupted by
The LORD CHANCELLOR, who said the confer
once from the Commons on the subject of an Inclosure
Bill, was at the bar.
The Earl of Devon, the Bishop of Norwich, and other
Lords were then appointed to conduct the conference
with the Coinmons.
Lord KINNAII3D then resumed. He read a letter
from the district:of Lancashire, from which it appeared
that many of the labouring population were
living on the trifling pittance of 11-d. a day. He had
many letters in his possession which-he had received on
this subject. All of them confirmed the statement made
in the letter he had read to their Lordships. When he had
brought the subject under the consideration of their
Lordships last session the Noble Duke (Wellington)
treated the subject midi some levity. These state-
ments which he had read would show how much that
levity was called for. He should conclude by moving
that an humble address be presented to her Majesty,
praying that a copy of her letter addressed to the Arch-
bishop of Canterbury; for the purpose of calling on the
clergy to assist in collecting subscriptions for the relief
of the suffering poor.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that there could
be no objection to the letter. The Noble Lord had
said truly, that he (the Duke of Wellington) had sug-
gested to the Noble Lord that he should ascertain that
such a letter had been written before he moved for its
production. He (the Duke of Wellington) ought
to take to himself some shame as a Member
of her Majesty's Privy Council, in not being
aware that this letter had been written. But he begged
to inform the Noble Lord that he was present when the
subject was discussed- in the Privy Council, but he had
been out of town, and when he answered the Noble
Lord he was not aware that the letter had been sent.
He did not happen to attend divine service last Sunday,
having been in the Chapel Royal, or he would have
known it. He had been to a distant part of the Metro-
polis on Monday, and he conversed with the clergyman of.
a parish, and certainly, if he had received the letter at
that time, he would have informed him of it. He would
say, that he had never mentioned the distress of the
country with levity. The Noble Lord at the time to
which he had alluded, said, that Parliament ought not to
be prorogued, and that those who advised Her Majesty
to prorogue Parlianient took on themelves serious re-
sponsibility. He (the Duke of Wellington) on that
occasion said he did not think that there was any reason
to believe that there was likely to be a scarcity of
corn, and that if Parliament sat for twelve months it
would not give the people the means of purchasing corn.
As be said before, there could be no objection to this
letter being produced.
Lord KINNA 1111) explained that be wanted to know
why the letter should be issued just at this particular
time. He did not think that it would do any permanent

good. . - -
The Marquis Of LANSDOWNE thought it would be
very unfortunate' if it should be imagined that these
letters had been issued as mere matters of form, and not
upon mature deliberation. The very circumstance of
making this a common proceeding was to de-
stroy its efficacy. All Governments should
consider well before adopting this course, because
au objection would apply to it when applied
to Parliamentary grants, viz. that it had a tendency to
prevent local efforts and individual exertions, which,
after all, were the best means of alleviating the
distress.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that the in-
vitation to come forward to relieve the distress of
a long-suffering people would not be confined to the
Established Church alone, but would be extended to all
places of worship. He thought the measure had been
considered, and that it was one well calculated to meet
the exigencies of the times ; under those circumstances,
therefore, he must express his approval of the course
proposed.—(Hear, hear.)
Earl RIPON, said,,it was not until the distress through-
out the country became general that her Majesty's
Ministers took upon themselves to advise her Majesty
to make this appeal to the people. On Tuesday night,
however, he certainly was not aware that the letter had
been sent ; in the parish church which he attended on
Sunday last, it certainly was not read, and that was the
history of the ignorance which had been imputed to
the Government not being exactly aware of the precise
time when their advice had been carried out. This cer-
tainly was not an appeal which ought to be often made,
but it was one which he was sure would, on the present
occasiom, be honourably responded to.
Earl MINTO said, on a former occasion, when the
country was in great distress, the Government had
ordered a great quantity of bonded corn to be re-
leased. He wished to ask the Noble Duke op-
posite if such a course had been adopted now.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said he was not aware
that such a course had been pursued.
The Duke 'of RICHMOND wished to know
what good it would do, if such a course were
adopted ? The people wanted money and not corn ;
give them money and they would soon get bread.
The only effect of such a course would be to reduce the
agriculturists of this country to the same state of distress
as the manufacturers were at present in.—(Hear.)
Earl MINT° said he must say that lie thought the
cheapening of food would considerably tend to alleviate
the distresses of the people.
Earl FITZWILLIAM apprehended that whatever
exertions might be made, the sum which would be raised
by this letter, would be perfectly trifling compared with
what' would be required for the object in view.—(Hear.)
They should inquire whether this letter was the result
of prudence and inquiry, as his Noble Friend (Marquis
of Lansdowne) was inclined to think. He should like
to ask her Majesty's Government what proportion
the sum to be raised by this letter would bear
to the average wages received by the operatives
of this country. He should like to know what would be
the annual wages of the operatives in one of our large
manufacturing towns alone. He shouid think it could
be certainly not:les than 1,000,0001. of money. He doubted
Whether they would not be trifling with the distress of the
people, by proposing such a measure as this. Did the
gentlemen believe that this distress was temporal ? Did
they believe that it arose from the fluctuations in the ma-
nufactures of the coon try, or (lid they believe as he did,
that it was merely an exhibition of the permanent
declension of the manufacturers of this country.—
(Hear.) He should like to hear the opinion of her
Majesty's Government 'upon that matter. If their opi-
nion were that the distress be of a permanent charac-
ter, he thought it should only be considered as a step to
some other more .pertnanent mode of administering
relief.—(Hear.)
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

HOUSE- OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKEIt took the Chair at the usual hour.
TYNE FIRHEIUES BILL.
The Tyne Fisheries Bill was read a third time, and
passed.
HOLY-WELL ROAD BILL.
The Holywell Road Bill was read a third time, and
passed.
LEEDS IMPROVEMENT BILL.
Mr. BECKErr presented a petition from Leeds,
against the Leeds lmprovement Bill.
FISHERIES (IRELAND) BILL.
Mr. SHAW presented a petition from the millers of
Cork against certain Clauses in the Fisheries (Ireland)
Bill.

a petition against any further grant to the (:,,,I: 0 :
Maynooth ; also a petition f...7r tile ~.7,-.eu.iol. cu' iioalu,s
Catholics froal Parliament.
.
POOR-LAW BILL.

Mr. .GRIMSDITCH presented a petition from the
Poor-law Guardians of the Cli,:rley Union, Lancashire,
praying for an alteration in the Poor-law Amendment
Bill.
Mr. LITTON presented a petition from the Irish
Society against the Irish Drainage Bill, and praying
that the petitioners might be heard at the bar of. the
House by their counsel against the Bill. Also a petition
from Longford against the national system of education
in Ireland.
Mr. FERRAND presented a petition from the Poor-
law Guardians of the parish of Keithley, in the West
Riding of the county of York, agreed to by a majority of
10 to 3 against the Poor-law Ainend'ment Act, as being
wholly unfitted for the purposes for which it was passed ;
the petitioners prayed the House, therefore, that that
Act might to repealed, or so far altered as that relief to
the poor might be administered under the sanction of
the rate-payers ; and that the Poor-law Commissioners
might be relieved from the further administration of
their functions. _ • _ _

COMMUNICATION WITH BELGIUM.
Mr. MACKINNON presented 'a petition from the
English residents of Bruges, coniplainikg that the com-
munication between this country and Belgium was not
sufficient for the purposes of trade. Vessels only went
four times a week from London to Bruges, and great in-
convenitnce arose from not having a daily communica-
tion, as there was with France. •
CATHOLIC GRIEVANCES.

Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from the Ca-
tholies of Stafford, complaining of the religious grievances
under which they laboured, especially in the Army and
Navy, the poor-houses, and the prisons.
REPEAL OF THE UNION.

The RIGHT HON. MEMBER also presented several pe-
titions for the repeal of the Legislative Union.
CORN LAWS.

The RIGHT HON. MEMBER also presented a petition
from Dublin, praying for a total and immediate repeal of
the Corn-laws.

REFORM IN PARLIAMENT.

The RIGHT HON. MEMBER also presented a petition
from five leaseholders, praying for a further reform in
Parliament.

FISHERIES (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord BERNARD presented a petition from some
place in Cork, in favour of this Bill.
SUDBURY ELECTION.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBEPresented
,petition from cer-
tain electors of Sudbury, signed by three Dissenting
Ministers, one Magistrate, and 152 electors, highly ap-
proving of the decision of the Commissioners appointed
by. the House, whereby they found that bribery had
existed in the borough of Sudbury to a great ex-
tent. The petitioners stated that they regarded the
suffrage as the right of every Englishman, and they
prayed for Universal Suffrage and. the Vote by Ballot.
The Hon. Member also presented a petition from an in-
dividual at Birmingham, praying for
.the dissolution of
the present Parliament, and that one might be elected
according to the ancient custom of the realm.

O:: the return of the Members of the Conference, Mr. -
HUME informed the House that the Managers of the
Conference, oo the part of the House of Conunew, hsd
stated their t.) the Altuutger..; of the House of
Lords fur differing with their Lordships, and had left
the Bill and amendments with them.

IPSWICH CASE.
The debate on the Ipswich case was then resumed, and
Mr. WYNN said that he had already stated to the
House the reasons which had induced him to
come to the conclusion, that in instances where
the existence of extensive bribery bad been
proved they ought not to allow it to be passed
over in silence. Ought those persons, either the bribers
or the bribed, to be suffered to go to another election?
Ought such disclosures to be attended with no conse-
quences to those who had been guilty of bribery ?
On reading the evidence in the Ipswich, it must be clear
to every one that an extensive' system of bri-
bery had been carried on at the last election.
There might, perhaps, in the event of a prosecution
being instituted, be some difficulty in bringing home the
offence to particular individuals, but no one could rise
from a perusal of that evidence without being convinced
that an extensive system of bribery had been carried on
both by one side and the other. The Commit-
tee had, by its very constitution, been precluded
fkom going into the evidence of the bribery, as
it affected the unsuccessful candidates. They must,
therefore, further inquire and further inves-
tigate : he was quite aware of the difficulties that must
attend a further investigation. The parties must consider
what would be the probable result ; if they established it
on both sides, they might establish it to such an extent
that each party would equally suffer by it. The
punishment ought not to fall entirely on the
constituents, but on those who were guilty of the crime
of bribery. During the last 150 years the House had
passed repeated acts against bribery ; and, by the act of
1829, penalties were inflicted on the voters who took bribes.
The House of Lords were now, fir the first time, ready
to co-operate with them ; and he did think they
ought not to allow to pass unnoticed the pro-
ceedings which had been lately disclosed before the
Election Committees. He did not wish to point out any
particular course to the Attorney-General, but, it ap-
peared to him, that the House should not refrain alto-
gether from interfering in the subject.
With respect to Ipswich, 'he did not think that the evi-
dence was of a nature to connect the alleged bribery
with the late sitting MemberS ; and formed sufficient rea-
son why ulterior proceedings ought not to be taken in this
case. The Right Hon. Gentleman went through diffe-
rent portions of the evidence, and said that as there was not
sufficient in it to induce the House to adopt ulterior
measures, he thought either that a supplemental enquiry
ought to be instituted, or that the Attorney-General, who
in this case ought to be looked upon as the servant of the
House, should be directed to prosecute such persons as
appeared to be concerned in the bribery practised at the
late election for the borough of Ipswich. The motion
having been put,
Sir THOMAS WILDE said that he found great
difficulty in addressing the House in opposition
to the proposition of so distinguished a person
as the Right Honourable Gentleman, but so
strongly did he feel the difficulties in the way of the
motion he had proposed, that notwithstanding the hesi-
tation he had expressed, he should beg leave to obtrude
upon the House. The House stood before the coun-
try in a peculiar position, and it would be expedient
for the House not to forget the circumstances
in which it was placed in adopting any course which
was proposed to it. He was not aware that directions
were ever given to an Attorney-General in the
general terms now proposed, and the Right Hon.
Gentleman himself, whose experience was so extensive,
allowed that the present form varied from that
generally adopted. - He had heard it said in
the House ; and he agreed in opinion that it
ought only to be on very strong occasions, that
the House directed a prosecution, and, generally
speaking, it operated to the prejudice of the
defendant. But so far from that being the case
in the present instance, he believed, on the con-
trary, that if the prosecution were ordered by
the House, it would rather be advantageous.
Some experience occurred, even before these decisions
took place. during the present Session. The House, in a
former Session, had directed a prosecution in the eases
of Hertford and St. Albau's. Whoever read the
evidence in those cases—the speeches of Coun-
sel, and the summing up of the Learned Judge—
would be satisfied that some peculiar circumstances, not
arising out of the evidence, must have led to the conclu-
sion in those cases. There was no doubt that, at the
present moment, there was a strong impression regarding
bribery, and that any prosecution unattended by some
general measure directed to the suppression of the evil
would be considered as a. prosecution not for the pur-
poses of justice, bid to 'boast of the existine. system. In
saying that, he could assure the House that no one felt
more decidedly than he did, that nothing but the desire
to maintain the honour of the House, had induced the
Right Hohourable Gentleman to adopt the course he
had done ; but while he made that statement he felt
bound to ask Whether any lion. Member could expect
any good from the adoption of the proposition. Was the
bribery so limited,and supported by individuals of so little
influence, that the conviction of one or two would do any
thing else but excite sympathy for them on the supposition
that the prosecution had taken place, not for the pur-
poses of justice, but to make a show of hostility.
First of all he was convinced that there was
great difficulty in the proposition now made.
The Committee had presented no individual
with their names associated with certain evidence, which
would enable the House to appreciate the certainty of
conviction. What means had the Attorney-General
of caning before hint and examining them, what
agents could he employ, or by what means had he of
going into those quarters fer information which would
enable him to presecute the inquiry with success. When
he was Attorney-General, he had cause to make inquiry
of a similar nature; and when he came to sift the
evidence, .he was satisfied there was not enough
to sustain the prosecution. He was convinced that the
Attorney-General would not have the means of mak-
ing the investigation which the Right Hon. Gentleman
desired ; his proposition was too general to have any
practical effect. But even if the investigation could be
made successfully, he would submit to the House, whe-
ther it would be proper to direct such an inquiry at this
moment, when no general measure had been brought
forward for the purpose of suppressing bribery. He
thought that nothing could more tend to disparage
the character of that House than the inves-
ligation of one particular case at the present
time.—(Hear, hear.) Any one who had been in that
House during the present session, must have been much
struck with the exhibition of certain feelings and opinions
which if quoted, would by no means tend to prove
the sincerity of that House if it adopted the propo-
sition before it.—(Hear, hear, hear.) What had hap-
pened ? Every Committee which had shown any
earnestness in prosecuting its - inquiry had been
charged with indulging in a vindictive spirit
and had been held up as objects rather of censure than
of approbation.—(Hear, hear.) Every witness who
had avoided ai:swering questions which had been
put to him had been the object of sympathy.
Everythingh which had opposed an obstacle to an inquiry
had been hailed with cheers, and when an individual
had rendered himself obnoxious to ensure the
greatest anxiety was shown to save him from punishment,
and a few hours imprisonment was considered sufficient.
He therefore trusted that the House would forbear
recting any prosecution in a general form, and he
also trusted the House would not direct any pro-
secution against individuals, until it had adopted
some measure for setting itself right in the public
mind, for showing its sincerity, by putting a stop to this
monstrous evil. The remedy would be found, not in the
punishment of a few obscure individuals who had com-
mitted bribery, but in the disgrace of those who
furnished them with the means. (Cheers.) For
these reasons, he deemed it expedient to order these
prosecutions. He considered the present was an awful
moment for this country.
(LEFT SPEAKING.)

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 25.
CUSTOMS ACT—THE TARIFF.

After a few words from Captain EGERTON,
Mr. HUME said if they expected the United States
fairly to admit our manufactures, they must not, as
they were now doing, do all in their power to keep out
theirs : on the contrary, they ought to admit them at
the lowest possible terms, and they would then admit
our manufactures in return. At the "present moment
they might be watching what we were doing. The en-
deavouring to keep out American produce mas the very
worst thing- we could do.
Mr. COBDEN wished to remind the House that the
importation of cheese from America had constantly de-
creased during the last few years ; the importation from
Europe also had considerably decreased. The falling off
in the price of agricultural produce was, he thought, to
be attributed solely to the poverty of the consumers. lie
was of opinion that they should give every facility to the
admission of every article that could come in from
America.

Mr. WAKLEY said no doubt the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, the First Lord of the Treasury, had laid hold of
the monster monopoly, and had given him a most ter-
rible shake ; but he was always returning to the
charge. Last night they had him from Kent ; to-night
they had him from Cheshire. Where it was to end he
did not know. What a shame it was to hear lion.
Members doing all they could to keep the people from
food—what a pity it was they could not eat timber.—
(Laughter.) They said they must protect the farmer.
Protect the farmer.! Pooh ! It was not for the farmer they
cared. They were looking out to keep up their rents, and
that wa; all they cared tor.—(Hear.) He was con-
vinced that the proposed tariff would give no substantial
relief to the people. He believed that the agriculturiSts,
if allowed to carry out their views, would plunge the
country into confusion. .
Mr. WARD said that if the House would not do jus-
tice to the people, the people would do justice to
themselves.

After a, few words from Mr. OLVILLE and Mr.
JERVIS, _ _

Mr. BARING supported the reduction of the duty.
Sir R. PEEL hoped the House would be disposed to
consider the tariff as a whole, and bear in mind all its
difficulty, instead of trying to put him in a minority on
any particular item. Ile really thought the wisest
course would be to allow him to finish the tariff that
nigh t.—( G rea t laughter.)
Sir J. GUEST moved that the duty should be reduced
to ss. instead of 7s. 6d.
Sir ROBERT PEEL would consent to the withdrawal
of the proposition for a duty of 7s. 6d., and take the divi-
sion on the proposition for a ss. duty, so as to have but
one division.

Mr. J. JERVIS explained.
Mr. MARK PHILIPS would not withdraw his propo-

sition for the salte.of proeuring a stray vote or two. Ile
thought the duty of 7s. 61. wore Ito be carried than 1
the proposition tor a duty ,o und..,hould preos h i nic.)-

tion to a division
The CHAIRMAN said.that the division must be taken
en the proposition for the smaller duty first.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. During
our absence from the gallery we understood that Sir J.
Guest's motion was put and negatived without a division.
The Committee then divided upon Mr. Mark Philips'
amendment, when there appeared—
Ayes 37
Noes • B2
Majority against the amendment —4s
The articles, eggs, hams, lard, pork salted (not
hams), sago, preserved fruits, and tapioca, were agreed
to without discussion. , .
'Mr. G. PALMER moved the resolution of which he
had given notice :—" That it is not expedient to alter
the rate of duties upon foreign vegetables, as proposed
in the tariff ; and that it would be unjust, in point of
principle, to take away 'the protection from that species
of British produce, whilst other interests remain protec-
ted." On the particular article of onions he proposed
that the duty should be is. ad.
Mr. GLADSTONE opposed the amendment. The
Government reduced the duty, because before it was
enormous. The lion. Member proposed to increase it to
70 per cent. He trusted that the House would reject the
amendment.
Mr. WAKLEY thought the persons represented by
the Hon. Member for Essex would suffer and it was to
be deeply regretted; but were they therefore to neglect
to carry out good principles? He deprecated the atten-
tion to partici:liar interests by, Hon. Gentlemen. Thus the
Members for Cheshire having gained their point, left
onions to take care of themselves. The House ought to
support the Government proposition.
After a few words from Mr. PALMER and Mr.
GLADSTONE, the motion was withdrawn, and the
Government proposition agreed to without a division.
On the resolution imposing a duty of 2d. the cwt. on
potatoes being proposed,-
Mr. STUART WORTLEY begged to be informed
on the subject. Ho understood that potatoes could be
introduced very cheaply from France, but he had no
knowledge on the subject himself..
Mr. G. PALMER said that a duty on potatoes was
necessary for the protection of the home-grower. He
would ask for that protection which the agricultural in-
terest had a right to expect would be given them by the
Government ; and he would, therefore, propose that the
duty imposed on potatoes, imported into this country,
should be Is. per cwt., instead of 2d.
Mr. GLADSTONE said that the present was a case
in which he felt perfectly convinced of the justice of the
reduction proposed to' the Committee. He did not think
that it would operate, to any extent, in lessening the
ordinary price of potatoes, 'lndeed, he did not think
that, in ordinary times, the customary price of potatoes
could be very much lowered,:by even a free trade. The
great practical object of the proposed reduction, was to
prevent serious inconvenience arising to the consumer,
from a sudden increase of price, consequent on partial
failure in growth at particular seasons.
Mr. WAKLEY said, he believed there would be a
very great importation • of potatoes into this country ; • he
believed such an importation would materially lower the
price of bread, and, for that reason, he considered the
proposition to be an excellent -one. • He was not going to
attempt to calm the monster monopoly by saying that
there woLld be no importation ; he believed there would
be a very large importation, and for that reason he should
support the proposition. Protect the potato-growers, said
the Hon. Member for Essex ; protect the people, said he
(Mr. Wakley). He was glad to see Rich a proposition
from the Government.; it was a very different thing
from the cry of " No surrender," and rounds of Ken-
tish fire.
Mr. AINSWORTH congratulated Hon. Gentlemen
opposite upon the tariff as a whole, and this part of it in
particular ; he was sure it- .would_ be of the greatest
service to the public, and he hoped it would be carried.
Mr. S. WORTLEY said that the Hon. Member for
Finsbury had misunderstood what had fallen from the
Right Hon. Gentleman, the President of the Board of
Trade. The Right Hon. Gentleman did not say that
there would be no importation of potatoes ; what he said
was, that there would'be no. such great importation as
would at all injure the property of the potato-growers of
England.
Mr. ESCOTT denied-That the farmers of this country
were desirous of keeping up the price of potatoes. No
good firmer wished to grow more potatoes than he could
use in his own establishment ; and though the Hon.
Member for Essex had come there to illuminate the
Treasury benches, he Could- .tell him that there were
farmers who could very considerably illuminate him upon
the subject.
Mr. BECKETT DENISON said, though he and
his colleague represented,' perhaps, a larger portion of
potatoe-growing country than any two Members of that
House, he could not feel justified in voting with the Hon.
Member for Essex. He considered that the proposition
was one which would tend to alleviate the burdens of
the working classes, and he should, therefore, vote with
her Majesty's Governmente(Hear.)
Mr. PALMER, withdrew. his opposition, and the Hon.
Gentleman's proposition was acceded to.
A variety of other articice*were agreed to without
alteration.
The items down to that of onions, exclusive, were
agreed to.
On onions being proposed,
Mr. ROUND said he thought this was another case
in which the home grower had been roughly dealt with.
He did nut think the amount of duty was sufficient pro-
tection. He would say that skilat the growers wanted
wits protection, but not prolAition.
After a few words from Mr. WARD and Dr. BOWRING,
Mr. GLADSTONE- said, that although the finest
onion seed was produced in Spain and Portugal, the
English grower had nothing whatever to fear from foreign
competition.
The item was then agreed to, as were the remaining
items in the schedule of seeds.
The next schedule was that enumerating the different
kinds of woods. These were agreed to.
The schedule containing ores and minerals was then
proposed. - •
Sir CHARLES LEMON wished this schedule to be
postponed for a few days, as an important meeting had
been held in Cornwall, and a deputation sent to London
on the subject, which would arrive to-morrow with a
petition.
Sir R. PEEL did not think it desirable that it should
be postponed, more especially as there would be another
opportunity of making any change in the Bill.
The items to copper ore were agreed to.
On copper ore being proposed,
Mr. TURNER moved as. an amendment that the
words " containing not more than ten parts of copper
per ton of metal" be omitted. He felt convinced that
this was a measure in which, the interests of Cornwall
were deeply concerned.' This mode of raising the duty
Was not only injurious to the mining interests generally,
but it was highly injurious to The revenue.
Mr. GLADSTONE said that the Hon. Gentleman's
motion would affect but a very small portion of the
question. It would, in fact, only affect a class of ores
which, up to the present time, had scarcely come into
this country. The effect of the motion would be altoge-
ther trifling, but even so, it was not expedient to adopt
it. It was expedient to encourage the introduction into
this country of low ores. It was desirable that an induce-
ment should be held out to foreign countries to import
their ores into this country,: in the working of which
Englishmen so much excelled. Machine making was a
manufacture peculiarly, adapted to the genius of this
country, and nothing would be more beneficial to that
manufacture than the introduction of ores.
Sir CHAS. LEMON said if they raised the duty too
high with regard to the rich. ores, they would run the
risk of compelling them to go elsewhere to have the ore
smelted; but there was no danger in that respect with
regard to the poor ores. The effect of the present scale
would be to take out of their hands the power of selling
the ore.
Lord ELIOT believed that the proposition of the
Government on this subject was calculated to be most
beneficial to his constituents, and he should therefore
give it his support.
Mr. LABOUCHERE rejoiced to see that it was the
determination of her Majesty's Government to put this
trade upon a more fair and equitable footing.
Mr. CHARLES BULLER would cordially support
the proposition of the Government, although he thought
it might produce some prejudicial effects on the miners
in Cornwall, for it should be remembered that private
interests ought to give way to public good.
After a desultory discussion the Committee divided,
and the numbers were:----,
For the amendment - 7
Against the amendment
Majority against the amendment,.. —l5l
On the item bar iron being proposed,
Mr. HU ME said, he was much disappointed to find
that the duty on this article had not been entirely abo-
lished. He hoped the GoVernment would reconsider this
subject.'
Mr. PARKER said that he had been in that House
many years, and scarcely a year had passed but his con-
stituents had memorialised the Board of Trade for the
repeal of this duty, but without success.
Sir'R. PEEL was happy to inform the Hon. Gentle-
man that the Board of Trade had consented to reduce
the duty one-third.—(Laughter.)
Mr. VILLIERS thought this was one of the most un-
warranted and wanton attempts to cling to protection he
had ever seen, and he should therefore oppose it.
Mr. M. PHILIPS thought this duty should be done
away with, because he did not think any interest was pro-
tected by it.
After a few words from Mr. FOSTER the other items
with respect to iron were agreed to.
Several other items being then agreed to,
Dr. BOW RING proposed the Chairman should report
progress, and ask leave to sit again.
The question was put and negatived without a division.
Sir ROBERT PEEL seid.he would name to-morrow,
and take his chance of being then able to proceed with
the tariff.
The Chairman then reported progresS, and obtained
leave to sit again to-morrow.
The Report on the Customs Bill was then brought up
by Mr. G REEVE.
The other Orders were.. then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter to One o'Clock.

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