The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-05 00:00:00

Government might have Lit, he could assure the Noble Earl
who bad just sat down that regret was sincere. He should
regret if they lost the support of the Noble Earl, er of other
Noble Lords who considered that the Government were un-
worthy of the confidsace reposed in them by propoinst the
measure before the House. He still repeated that in the per-
formance of the duties which they owed to the country.
and which had guided the Ministers of this great
empire in discharging the functions with which they had beer.
trusted, they had acted consistently, and with a desire to pro-
mote the peace and the prosperity of the country ; and he
knew notrhat were the measures which the Noble Earl sup-
posed they ought to have adopted. He ( Lord Stanley) knew
not what those steps were which ought to have been
taken in consequence of the proceedings which he said had
taken place—but this he would say, that that derartieent of her
Majesty's Government to which the peace of the country more
especially belonged bad got the-earliest information of what had
taken place, or what was likely to take place in Dublin. They did
not hear of a demonstration which was likely to disturb the
public peace, or that in those proceedings there was any viola-
tion of the law of the land, and it that result should be upon an
occasion intended to celebrate the anniversary of the conviction
which was subsequently set aside by a judgment of their Lord.
ships' House on technical points of law—if the crowds who went
to pay their respects to air. O'Connell, and to express their
opinions—if a much larger proportion of the population of
Dublin, as his Noble Friend bad stated, in boats arid ships
came with flags to see the precession—if all these things
took; place, and if no interruption of the peace took
place—that no violation of the law took place—that
in the opinion of the officers of the law there
was nothing in the proceedings of that day that made any man
amenable to the law. He ( Lord Stanley) himself thought it
was the duty of the Government to wacth that there was no
interruption of the public peace, and that they were not called
upon by such an occasion to come forward and see that the
proceedings were not beyond or above the law. He could not
think that great part of the Noble Earl's speech was pecu-
liarly applicable to the subject-matter ; neither did he pre-
cisely understand why the Noble Earl drew a distinction be-
tween the proceedings of some days in Dublin and of others.
He did not think the Noble Lord (Lord Roden) was serious in
proposing the amendment which he had brought forward. He
distinctly stated that he brought it forward—not because
he had the smallest idea that it would lead to
an inquiry not that it would affect his vote,
but to stop and defeat the measure that had been brought for-
ward by her Majesty's Government. —( Hear, hear.) He
brought forward his amendment for the purpose of an inquiry
into the doctrines taught in the College of Maynooth, and of
the discipline of the College. And why ? Because he could
prove that since the passing of the Catholic Relief Act, certain
young men in that College had been admitted into the society
of the Jesuits. The Noble Earl said he was prepared to prove
what he had stated. If such a thing had happened—
if, in opposition to the Act of 1829, any young men
had been introduced from that college into the Society of
Jesuits, he was liable to be banished for a misdemeanor.
If, therefore, the Noble Earl, or any one else, was desirous
to proceed, the law was open to them. He (Lord Stan-
ley) understood that the amendment was not to be a sub-
stantial measure, and the question was, would they accept or
reject the measure proposed by her Majesty's Government.
He conceived that such an inquiry as that proposed
by the Noble Earl would be' entirely usoless.
He would admit, nay, he would say, that if the inquiry were to
be instituted according to the motion of the Noble Earl, it
should be made with a view to elicit the practice of the officers
rather than proving from the books of the College the exploded
doctrinos which might be gathered from the text-books, but
which were utterly repudiated by the Professors of Maynooth.
At the best, such an inquiry must prove most unsatisfactory
and unprofitable. They had no right to institute an inquiry
into the doctrines taught at Maynooth, but they had a right to
inquire into the manner in which the professors and the pupils
had acted in the exercise of these principles. Into this they
had a right to inquire. But this was the course that
had been pursued by the Professors of that College.
In 1798, when there had been great suspicion of the feelings
and allegiance of the denizens of Maynooth, and when the doc-
trines taught there had corns into question, an inquiry had been
instituted into the doctrines taught at that establishment, and
of their effects on its pupils, and what was the re-
sult ? They had found, on inquiry, that there was cause
for suspicion, and they acted accordiegly. About that time a
riumbes of pupils had been to Maynooth, and the first thing
that was presented to them was the offer of the oath of supre-
macy. Many of them had, doubtless, anailed themselves of the
kissing the thumb instead of the book. and all those little
means of equivocation which were so well known, and well ap-
preciated by those who wished to take an undue and im-
proper advantage of it. In this instance the oath of supremacy
and allegiance had been tendered and accepted, and when the
test was tried ,t was found that both the stud-nts and the profes-
sors were equally anxious to support the characters of all
in the establishment. With such a fact before them, were they
to slander away the character of those who had the guidance
of the College of Maynooth ? What was the character of the
oath which was prescribed to the students on entering the Col-
lege? It contained provisions for the whole ef those duties,
which, as members of a social community, they were bsund to
fulfil. That was the declaration of the time, and it was fully
borne out by the politics and proceedings of Maynooth ; and
when, in 1798, the inquiry of which he had spoken had been
instituted, it had led to the expulsion of several students from
the College.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the doctrines
taught at Maynooth, it was very true that Dr. Crotty
and Dr. Meehan differed in opinion as to the
doctrines taught at Maynooth, yet they still both agreed in the
principle that they were opposed to the ultra-montane prinsi-
pies which had been so feared by certain professors of the
Roman Catholic doctrines in that College. It was true that
the feelings of the country had been represented as being op-
po-ed to the Roman CatholiC religion; but if he could under•
stand the country right, he was right in asserting that the opi-
nion of the country was gathered from the petitions made to
the House; but the fact was, that those were the petitions of
sectarians, and not of the body of the people. Now he found
that a great majority of the petitions which had been presented
to that House, had proceeded from Dissenting congre-
gations, who held that no religious denominations
ought to be maintained by an endowment from
the State. It was a matter of principle, and they
prayed that not Maynosth alone, but that no other establish-
ment connected with the Church should receive an endowment.
Te the Noble Lord who had spoken that evening, he would
say that neither from Oat4rd or Cambridge had any petition
been presented is opposition to the measure before their
Lordships,
A Nosier Loan—Nor from Dublin.

Lord STANLEY, in continuation—Nor from Dublin, and.
if Noble Lords would carefully examine the signatures ap-
pended to those petitions, they would find that of
the Members of Oxford and Cambridge, who had signed
those /petitions —( Hear, hear)—a preponderating number
were in :avonr of this measure. But if the petitions emanating
from dissenting congregations, he would say, that they were
founded on a supposition altogether erroneous—they were
founded on an apprehension that the measure tended to the in-
jury of the Protestant Church, and to the promotion of the
Roman Catholic faith. Now, he could assure their Lordships
that if he thought that that measure would tend in the slightest
degree to the injury of the Protestant Church, if he thought
that it tended to hijure them in their temporal,
or still more, to injure them in their spiritual in-
terests. He (Lord Stanley) would be the first to
refuse his sanction to such a measure, he would be the very
first to denounce that measure, and he would continue his op-
position to it to its very latest stage. He was afraid that the
distinction was not sufficiently marked between those measures
which, while they benefitted the Roman Catholic Church, in-
jured the Protestant Establishment. And he was one who did
not think it necessary to injure the one in order to advantage
the other. He did not think that the benefit conferred on the
one must necessarily injure the other. That was no new opi-
nion of his, and without pretending to any bastard consistency,
he could inform the House tisat in all times there had
been no change in his opinion, on the subject under dis•
cussion ; there had been no alteration in his votes. He
could well imagine that many of their Lordships, who, pre-
vious to 1829, would have been desirous of withulding poli-
tical power from Roman Catholics, and who were opposed
to the present measure on the ground of argument, that if
they entrusted political power to a people ignorant, they
would pervert it, to them he would say, it was better to en-
trust that political power to an educated than to an unedu-
cated people. In the year 1824 he had strenuously resisted
a proposition which he believed to be inimical to the
interests of the country, but that did not prevent him in 1625
from voting for a mea,ure of larger compass than the present
measure, brought forward, not for;an annual endowment only to
the College of Maynooth, but for the relief of the whole body
of the Roman Catholics. He had been asked whether it was
not a necessary consequence that this endowment of the Col-
lege of Mayncoth would not lead to the endowment of the Ro-
man Catholic Church. He saw no such necessary conse-
quence—he saw no such probable consequence. They had for
fifty years given a constant annual aid to the College of
Maynooth, and he could not see that its perma-
nent endowment necessarily led to an endow-
ment of the Church, any more than that as annual endowment
for the one, should lead to the annual endowment of the other.
He saw obstructions in the opinions and in the prejudices of the
people of this country ; he saw obstructions and objections in
the Roman Catholic clergy themselves ; he saw many and
great objections in the way of this endowment, but he would say
that if any such objections existed in his own mind, religious
scruples would not prevent him from supporting the motion.
Where was the injury to the Protestant Church? Was it
an injury to their temporal or to their spiritual interests ?
He knew none such, but it did appear to him, that if an in-
jury to their temporal interests were to be apprehended, that
was still more strongly to be apprehended from an unendowed
than from an endowed establishment—from a body of men
who had been refused every thing, than from a body of men
who had been themselves endowed for the promotion of reli-
gion. If they looked to the spiritual interests of the Church,
or the influence which the education of the Col-
lege of Maynooth would have upon the morals of
the youth, he would say that such a danger might be appre-
hended, it Catholics and Protestants received the same educa-
tion from Roman Catholic teachers ; but that not being the
case, he could conceive no such danger. There were some
who indulged in the dream that, at some future
period, in consequence of some indefinite or un-
defined legislation, the whole of the Roman Catholics
of Ireland would be within the pale of Protestantism. No
one could wish to see such a consummation more than he
did ; bat, looking at the experience of the past, and the pro •
bability of the future, he confessed that he regarded such a
vision as wholly Utopian. Confessions from the Roman
Catholic religion could not be impeded by this measure, be-
cause if the measure should have any effect upon
Roman Catholics at all it would not be to
make them worse, but rather to make them less and better.—
( Hear, hear.) He was deeply sensible of the many errors and
failings of the Roman Catholic Church, and as strongly con-
vinced of the superior purity of his own Church, and the truth
and doctrines of his own Church ; yet if he were en-
trusted with the care of a being whom he loved best in
the world, say for instance, a child of his own,
he should much rather prefer bringing it up in the profession of
the Roman Catholic religion than leaving it wholly destitute
of religious instrucion.—( Hear, hear.) But this was not a
parallel case with Ireland for a large proportion of the people
of Ireland were Catholics. They would be Catholics and must
be Catholics, and the question for them now to consider was,
whether they should be instructed Catholics or not.—( Hear,
hear.) Whether they would suffer their priests to be ignorant
illiterate and unlettered on the one hand, or well educated and
well instructed on the ether.—( Hear, hear.) Then, again,
looking at the matter in a religious point of view, he was far
from thinking that he was doing anything hostile or at variance
with hie religious professions, and he said as a Chris-
tian, not less than as a politician, that it was
right, and . wise, and good, that they should
give therierligits educationCatholicmanin fellow-subjects thebes t
possible religious
arveitginnm.
nt. h
( Hweari
which
hadhea beenro.)
followed f warship
H e o
would
notby
his Noble Friend, who was connected with the county of Lime-
rick, with regard to the question of principle, so far as the
same measure might apply to
the colonies:--( Hear,
hear)—but he would simply simply
content himself by
reminding their Lordships, that so far from the measure -
introducing any new principle,
he might mention that inCa-
nada, Malta, and other countries to which England was bound
or attached by treaties or otherwise, Roman Catholic instito-
tim3 were endowed and supported out of the public funds.—
( liver, hear.) He had carefully examined all the authorities i n
favour of the endowment of Maynooth'and against it, and from
a jell comparison of all that he had heard, and of all that
he had read, he could COM to no other conclusion, than that by