The Sun.
London, England, 1827-04-06 00:00:00

IRISH ESTIMATES.

rve,,s4
time
Sir J. NEWPaT:in rising to propose " that, the Irish
estimates be referred to a Select Committee," observed, that
if his motion were at all likely to interfere wk., the bounty
of Parliament, lie would be the last man tohetiring forward
mit to the House.
Ireland
the grants that were made in earliament ; but while he
many benefits front
admitted this, he was sensible that the manner in which
those grants were given, and the little opportunity allowed
for entering into the details, deserved notice and correction.
Care ought to be taken, that what the legislature bestowed
should be directly appropriated to the object for which it
was intended. Those grants ought, in his opinion, to un-
dergohad,
propositionfromwhichto
was
that examination ina Committee above stairs, which
it Was quite impossible, from the way in which they were
introduced, they could receive in that House. The first
article he found entered on the estimates was the Charter
Schools. Some years since the Report of the Commis-
sinners appointed to examine into the state and condition of
these institutions, developed abuses of such a nature, as to
call down the reprobation of the House; and he then
supposed, that it was the determination of Parliament to
.those institutions as speedily
bring as possible within a c 21.-
tain prescribed limit. - It was then proposed, that the
childrenin those institutions
should be apprenticed, and got
rid of. This had not been done . • though, he believed,
they were infinitely beyond the age at which they ought to
have remained in these schools. This was an impel-taut
object for inquiry. And how, in that House, could a pro-
per inquiry take place? It was quite impossible; for, if
lie 5
o.ot up and stated any particular circumstance relative to
,school, it was metthe other side,
any given on
tive denial, and no opportunity was given for ascertaining
the real truth of the matter. This could alone be arrived
at in a committee. The sum which was proposed for the
Linen Board was 10,000/. less than was voted ,lest year;
but nevertheless the House was bound to inquire upon what
principle the reduction had beenmade. In the estimrte of
the Kiblare Society for education, a reduction of 5,0001.
bad heelA Acted last year. The otiwate thus reduced,,

2.5,000/., was again proposed thig year. It was
stated in a report Which had been issued by that society,
that finding they could not maintain their establishment
on its formerfooting with the reduced estimate, they re-
presented'their cue to the Irish Government, whe, after
some investigation, gave them 5,000/. out of the treasury.
He thought that the Government in this proceeding had
exceeded its powers, for he doubted much whether that
transaction came within the purview of Parliament. The
Hon. Baronet, after complaining that the Commissioner•
for inquiring into the state of education were too tardy in
reporting the result of their labours, moved " That a select
committee be appointed to consider the estimates presented
to the House for the miscellaneous service of Ireland, so far
as relates to the sums proposed to be expended for the pur-
poses of charity and edneation."
Mr. CURTEIS seconded the motion. He considered it
hard that the people of this country should be taxed to sup-
port establishments in Ireland, unless they were clearly
shown to be useful. He saw that in the Cork establish-
ment for education there were professors of botany and mi-
neralogy. He did not think it was necessary to instruct
poor people on those subjects.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted
that it was of importance to bring all these votes within
the narrowest possible compass. He and his Right Hon.
Friend (Mr. Goulburn) had acted upon that principle, and
the result was a reduction in the estimates for this year as
compared with those for the last year of upwards of
50,000/. This at least looked as if there had existed a
hone fide intention on the part of Government of enforcing
economy.—(Hear.)—The House would perhaps bear with
him whilst he very shortly adverted to some of the points
which had been touched upon by the Right Hon. Baronet.
With respect to the Charter Schools, he could take upon
himself to say it bad been resolved to let them expire of
themselves. No new scholars would in future be admitted
and those already in the schools would be apprenticed to
different trades as soon as possible. By these means the
number of those schools would soon be gradually reduced,
and only so many would be allowed to continue in exist-
ence as could be maintained by their own exclusive funds,
which amounted to about 7,0001. per annum. The various
other societies which had been alluded to were already
metier a course of examination by commissioners appointed
for that purpose, and he thought it would be inexpedient
and unnecessary to subject them to a second inquiry, until
the report of those commissioners was before the House.—
As to the Linen Board,he could assure the House thatit was
the last time of its appearing on the stage.—(Hear.)—The
abolition of that establishment was resolved on. Ministers
had the strongest disposition to curtail unnecessary ex-
pences with respect to these estimates, and nobody could
long more than he did for the adoption of some general
plan regarding them, bdt at the same time he was of opi-
ninion that the Right Hon. "Baronet had made out no case
for the appointment of a committee..(Hear.)
Mr. S. RICE was rot disposed to give Ministers credit
for the economy which was professed on the present occa-
ion. He rosp,e,eci that the estimates were fraudulent.
The srtcm was one of gross abuse. The charter schools
of Ireland had already cost 1,600,000/., of which 100,000/.
had come out of the pockets of the people of England.
The expense tocrof. the commissions of inquiry was enor-
mous. lip to the present moment, it amounted to between
700,000/. and 800,000/. He wished to know if there
would be any objection to refering the Report of the Com-
missioners to a Committee of the House, under a pledge
that the Members forming that Committee would confine
themselves strictly to the objects contained in the Report.
The House were not prepared, probably, to hear of two
very orthodox commissioners having advised, in a separate
report, that there should be no further grants of money
made to the Belfast Institution far the present, because
there were some mathematical professors employed in teach-
ing there who were professed Arians. Nay, more—these
grave theological commissioners had undertaken to settle a
disputed point in divinity by an entirely new decision.
They objected to. the Arian professors, because Arianism
was hostile to and wholly subversive of the principles of
Christianity, as they denied the divinity of Christ. From
whence did they acquire this hitherto unknown definition
of Arianism ? Surely they ought to have known that
some of the greatest lights of philosophy, some of the
greatest ornaments of the Christian world, professed
to he Arians. These were indeed questions unfit for
the deliberation of the House. He did not introduce them.
That merit was due to the two zealous and Hon. Members
who had taken the pains to report separately upon this
subject, and who seemed to be not altogether unwilling to
conduct the House back to the spirit of those times when
the lower empire was distracted about the right construc-
tion of a diphthong. -
Mr. GOULBURN juntifig the proposed grants, and
said that they were less, with one exception, than in any
year since 1807 by more than 200,0001.
Mr•. LESLIE FOSTER complained of
.the premature
disc ion of the report before the evidence had been pro-
:shoed, -Aeoto theseparate replan to wisigh
name, fie fek it us be nis:Auty then; as it Was now his pride.
The object of the commission was one of financial revision.
The Hon. Member seemed to lose sight of economy altoge-
ther, and to treat it only as a question of education. The
House would observe, that the Belfast institution was a new
candidate for the bounty of the Crown. The design of the
institution was to benefit the Presbyterian Church of Ire-
land. He of all men was one the most anxious to effect
that object. Now, he knew that the Presbyterians of
Scotland were among the most earnest believers in the Di-
vinity of Christ. And when he found that there were
fessors of Arianism among the teachers of the Belfast in-
stitution, he could not but feel that there was something in
this arrangement hostile to the fundamental principles of
Christianity. It was not a question of toleration to the
psrticnlar creed of any man ; but the question was, should
any man whose religious sentiments led him to deny the
divinity of Christ have the opportunity furnished to him of
propagating such sentiments at the expense of the public
money ? The members of the church of Scotland, more
than any others, shrunk from a doctrine Which denied the
divinity of Christ ; but among- the Presbyterian'sects of
Ireland, there were many per•senstvho held opinions which
were different:to those of the orthodox church to which
they belonged. Out of five professors in the Belfast insti-
tution, three held these objectionable opinions. The pro-
position which the Commissioners had made was of a
mild and pacific nature; they only asked that persons
holding such sitnations should give security that they held
the opinions of the majority of the Church to which they
belonged.
Mr. JAMES GRATTAN maintained the propriety of
submitting the question to a Committee up stairs. With
gespect to what had been said about religion, lie should be
haopy to see any thing like Presbyterianism, which had
prospered so well in Scotland, spread itself throughout
Ireland.
Mr. FIUME rose, but the loud cries of "Question," and
s' withdraw," rendered his observations at first inaudible.
He had been wrongly blamed for wishing to cut down all
the grants which were devoted to Ireland. He should be
glad to vote for any thing which was shown to be advan-
tageous to Ireland. When he looked at the estimates
for the Protestant schools in Ireland, he moved for a
return of the ages of the children (a laugh), and found
from thl% return that six thousand of them were of an
age past that at which they ought to have been put out to
some business.---(Hear.)--The vote was, therefore, for
l; rows persons, and not for children. The estimate
for 'he Foundling Hospital was 24,000/., and although the
Right Non. Gentleman had admitted that that institution
was against principle, yet 1,800 children had been received
into that Hospital since the Right lion. Gentleman had
made that admission. The sums for Proclamations and
Printing Acts of Parliament, were, for the first, 5„800/.,
and for the second, 3,000/. or 4,0001., much of which
might be saved by propee attention and care. The only
proper plan was to refer these estimates to a committee. He
trusted that the Hon. Baronet would not rsake any excep-
tion in his motion, but include the whole of the estimates
in it, and take the sense of the House upon the question.
He was convinced that his Majesty's Ministers would not
have courage to refuse the motion.

the number of references from the Lord Chancellor to
the Vice-Chancellor, and the number of appeals, because
a very important alteration was proposed to be made in
the new Bill, namely, to give to the Vice-Chancellor an
original jurisdiction, which he did not possess under the
Act which created that office. It was important also to
know what part of the jurisdiction of the Lord Chancel-
lor, not in Chancery but in other departments, could be
transferred to other officers. The number of appeals in
the House of Lords was another important subject, which
it was necessary to consider before the Bill came before
the House. He (Mr. Fergusson) had a high opinion of
the Lord Chancellor ; but he thought the information I
should not be refused.
Mr. A. DAWSON observed, that the motion related
to different Courts, yet the Right Hon. Secretary consi-
dered it as an attack on the Lord Chancellor.—(Hear.)---
If there was any objection to deal with the Chancery
Court because the Judge would lose his emoluments, let
the country give him his 20,0001., or twice that sum, and
wipe away the tears of orphans.—(Hear.)
Mr. HOBHOUSE thought that the House and the
country was not fairly dealt with on this occasion. The
Master of the Rolls, who was responsible for the bill before
the House, was not in his place. He (Mr. Hobhouse) un-
derstood that he had obtained leave of absefice to go into
the country. He did not know what was the cause of his
absence ; he should be glad, however, to learn from the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, why he bad neglected a
measure which it was his duty to defend. Instead of that
course, his Majesty's Ministers got up and argued that the
motion was invidious, and an attack upon the Lord Chan-
cellor. This he denied ; but if it were, why should he and
his Hon. Friends shrink from it? The Right lion. Gen-
tleman said it was humiliating to the Lord Chancellor.--
He (Mr. Hobhouse) maintained that it was humiliating to
him and his Hon. Friends, if they could not say a word
respecting a notorious abuse, without an imputation of pri-
vote motives. He (Mr. Hobhouse) knew nothing of the
Lord Chancellor, but as a public character; and he saw in
him a man desirous of putting down the improving spirit of
the age ; and at this moment, with all the skill and expe-
rience, and attractions he was reported to be master of, he
was raising the only obstacles to the happiness of the coun-
try in the union of all the talents in the House.—(A
laugh.)--If the Right Hon. Gentleman, who now defended
the Court of Chancery, (he must think, against his better
judgment,) would apply the talents he had displayed in the
reform of the Criminal Code to the Chancery, the nation
would stand by him, and he would not need the influence
of the Lord Chancellor. Let him ask the different interests
in that House if they were satisfied with the Court of Chan-
cery. Would commercial men say they were satisfied ?
And what had not the landed gentry suffered in the shape
of mulcts, through the dilitoriness of that Court ?—(Hear,
hear.)—lle repeated, that the House was not treated fairly
if the information was refused.

reiherwise ty, and to the public satisfactorily, exercised.
.This subject had already been sufficiently handled by the re-
port of the Parliamentary Committee, who had stated on
the appendix to their report, the business done by, the Lord
,Chancellor, de die in diem. A motion similar to that
now before the House had been made some years, ago, by
the Hon. Member for Westminster (Sir F. Burdett), who
afterwards, nn the matter being explained to him, gave it
up; because he was convinced that no returns of the
number of causes in the Court of Chancery could inform
him of the quantum of business done there by the Judge.
It was, then, because the information when obtained could
not be satisfactory, because the Commissioners bad not
thought it necessary to give it in their report, and because
nobody but the Hon. Gentleman had thought it necessary
to enable the House to form an ultimate opinion on the Bill
brought in by the Master of the Rolls, that he opposed it.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR said, at this late hour of the even-
mg it was not his intention to go at any length into the
subject of the Court of Equity, or any of the momentous
matters which that subject involved. Until he saw the
notice of this motion which was inserted in the order-book
of the House, he had received no intimation of it; therefore
as to any attack which was to be made by means of it upon
the Lord Chancellor, he was perfectlyguiltless. He begged,
however, the 'attention of his Hon. and Learned Friend
the Attorney-General, while he said that if he (Mr. Tay-
!Or) was the friend of the Lord Chancellor (as he was sure
he was not his enemy), the last thing he could have done
Would have been to rise in his place and resist the mention
hich had just been made. He thought that if upon any
cccasion a judge was attacked, it was the duty of his friends
tb bring before the House all the facts 'relating to his con-
duct, so that a decision might be formed, whether the at-
tack had. been made fairly or. unfairly. The motion be,-
Lre the House, without being at all an attack upon the
ord Chancellor was calculated to give the House the know-
lidge necessary to be possessed 'by them before they came to
a decision on some questions of great importance, which
were about to be brought before them connected with the
dourt of Chancery. The returns would particularly fur-
nish the House with the means of judging whether the Lord
Chancellor had or had not more business to do than it was
possible for him to perform—(Hear, bear), and whether
the suitortof the Court of Chancery had that, prompt and
satisfactory administration of justice to which they wereen-
tilled. The House would then be enabled to say,—the
subject being fairly placed before them,—whether the Lord
dhancellor's duties were such as ought to be imposed upon
him. There could be no blame imputed to the Chancel-
lor, if it were Shown that the delays in his Court arose
from his having—as he (Mr. Taylor) hoped on some fu-
ture occasion to show he had—more to do than it Wall in
the power of any human being to dispose of.—(Hear.)—ln
this House, he and every other Member had a right to
know what were the nature of the Chancellor's duties, and
the manner in which they were performed.—(Hear, hear.)
—.Was there any libel in inquiring into these facts ? He
denied that there was any libel. Was the truth to be called
a 'ibel here, as it was held to be in a Court of Common
Law t—(Cheers.)—ln the House of Commons every Mem-
ber bad a right to say that which he believed to be the
truth ; and to demand such information as might lead him
to'ascertain the truth. If it were not so, it would be better
toshut and quit the House.—(Cheers.)—He wished to
say nothing unkind of Lord Eldon. If any unkindness
had been displayed towards him, it had proceeded from
himself and his friends, who wished to secure to him the
emoluments for duties which he did not perform. He had
known Lord Eldon for more than 40 years, during a part
of which period he had lived in habits of intimacy
with him ; and in no part of which period had
any unkindness on either side disturbed the good
understanding between them. Looking at this mat-
ter, however, in a public point of view, he would
ask the House if any friend of the Lord Chancellor ought
to resist this motion. If he were in the place of the Noble
Lord, he would wish for no such defenders as sought to
conceal his conduct. Of his Hon. and Learned Friend (the
Attorney-General) should sit as his talents entitled him, and
as he (Mr, Taylor) had no doubt he would one day sit,
in as exalted a situation as the Noble Lord now filled,
would he choose to have such, defenders? On the con-
trary, would he not wish to have all his actions thoroughly
investigated ? The motion before the House was not
of an unprecedented nature. In 1811 a Committee was ap-
pointed, of which the Hon. Member for Caine (Mr. Aber-
crombie), the Honourable Member for Wiachelsea (Mr.
Brougham), and others who, like them, held no mean re-
putation in the House, were Members. The object of that
comimittee WO very similar to that of the motion, which bad

ABSTRACT of
BRITAIN, in t
MCI avid 1827,
thereof.

To Cash brought to this Account from
the Ways and Means to replisce the
like amount issued out of the grow-
ing produce of the Consolidated
Fund in Ireland, tor Public Ser-
viced

Mr. F.-LEWIS defended the conduct of the Com-
missioners, and contended that, to take the ;natter out
of their bands in this stage, would be to mar all that
had been already done, and to aipoint persons ignorant
of the matt r, in the place of those who must have
gaind i,onsiderable information respecting it. The ar-
raarrnents wiiich they had proposed respecting the
Feurdling Hospital were of a most economical nature,
and, bowcve., they might be ridiculed for differing in opi-
nion, it ought to be recollected, that in three reports out of
four they had been unanimous. He bad differed with two
Hon. Gentlemen respecting the Belfast Institution, and he
sincerely regretted it. At the same time, however, he
would not then enter upon the grounds of his dissent, be-
cause the House was not yet in possession of those facts
which alone could enable them to judge whether his argu-
ments were correct or incorrect. The appendix would
contain these facts, and b. thought it only fair for the
House to wait until it appeared.
Mr. BROVN.ILOW said, that the proposed grants were
for two professors of divinity, and for professors of natural
philosophy, moral philosophy, logic, and belles lettres,
anatomy, and physiology, Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and ma-
thematics. He certainly did not know of any more valuable
,instatition than that at Belfast, or of any institution more
,congenial to the sentiments of the people oflreland. With
respect to the charge of Arianism having prevailed among
she Mils., obuld only. say, that from the evidence of Mr.

Mr. CANNING could not imagine why the Hon. Gen-
tleman should call upon him to account for the absence of
the Master of the Rolls.—(A laugh.)—Perhaps the Right
Hon. Gentleman might happen to be better employed.—
(A laugh.)—But if he (Mr. Canning) was asked why that
Right Hon. Gentleman was not here to defend the second
reading of his Bill, which his Right Hon. Friend had put
off at the express request of the other side, he must say,
that of all unreasonable objections this did appear to him
the most unreasonable.—(Hear, hear.)—The Master of
the Rolls had, in fact, objected to putting off the reading;
and although there was no settled bargain made, yet tpere
was an implied understanding that by so doing, the other
, side should not bring the subject forward, or at least a mo-
tion so like it as not to be distinguished from it by the
acute optics of the Hon. Gentleman opposite.—(Hear.)___
Whatever might have brought on the discussion respecting
the Lord Chancellor, that discussion had acquired-an angry
tone, though he did not accuse the Hon. Member for Col-
chester of intending it. ' He (Mr. Canning) opposed the
motion on other grounds. He thought it unfair, that for
the convenience of the Hon. Gentleman, an incidental point
shciuld be brought forward which involved the discussion
of all parts of the question. He (Mr. Canning) did not
know how far the motion might he necessary for the
con-
sideration of the subject at a future time; but he thought
the motion went further than the notice; so that though
the notice was unobjectionable, the motion went beyond
it. At a future time, he was not prepared to say that the
motion might not be acceded to. But in the present tem-
per of the House, and after what had been said of the
Lord Chancellor, it would be cruel to that eminent person,
if the House gave any kind of sanction to _what had been
brought forward, swelled as it bad beva into a direct

'gain proposed thie year. It Was Cooke and Dr. Haller, it appeared that the pupils were all been read. There would be sufficient opportunities for charge against his judicial, his political, and his personal
a had been issued by that society, of them orthodox; that only one Arian had been found discussing at no distant period the whole question respect- character.-(Hear.)
not maintain their establishment among them, and that it was probable that one had con- ing.Lord Eldon's duties, but how could the House proceed Mr. HARVEY, in reply, observed that if the conduct
th the reduced estimate, they re- tracted his opinions before he came to the Academy. He to do so unless they were furnished with the information of Members were to be open to the imputation of private
be Irish Government, who, after would not detain the House any longer than to say, that he sought by these motions? He did not mean to deny that motives in performing public duties, the Attorney-General
them 5,000/. out of the treasury. felt it his duty to support the motion of the Hon. Baronet. the office of Lord Chancellor ought to be a great prise; ought to be the last person to set the example; for when
vernment in this proceeding had All motions for enquiry into the expend4nre of public mo- but if, by any circumstances, the duties were such as he threw off his equity robes in order to be the defender of
.he doubted much whether that ney ought to be supported, and when one came before him, to furnish employment and emolument for the talents of traitors, there was a general impression throughout the
the purview of Parliament. The as the present did, for an inquiry into extravagant expen- more than one distinguished person in the profession of country, that in doing so, he was actuated by resentment
Iplaining that the commissioner• diture of public money in Ireland, be had not courage the law., he did not see why there should not be two to the Lord Chancellor for overlooking his pretensions. It
le of education were too tardy in enough to refuse it. great prizes.-(Hear, hear.)-He recollected a report in was not possible to discuss the Bill itself after the holidays,
eir labours, moved .. That a select Sir J. NEWPORT, in reply, would only trouble the the public papers, about three weeks ago, of a judg- unless the information now moved for was given. The
to consider the estimates presented House with one or two observations. With respect to those
:ellaneous service of Ireland, so far went of the Lord Chancellor. All the Counsel stared. Vice-Chancellor, unlike the Chancellor, decided nothing
Persons who had not been put out to business as they ought All said they had no doubt it was perfectly right. himself, but referred every thing to the Masters. He
posed to be expended for the pur- to have been, the reason was, that no one would take them But no longer ago than a few days the Chancellor him- quickly scanned the object of a suit, and got rid of it by a
ation." as apprentices. And why not ? Because they bad been self said it seas wrong.-(Heae.)-The Counsel said reference to the Master. But the causes which were thus
led the motion. He considered it so ill educated, because the public money had been be- no doubt it was very wrong.---(A laugh.)-That Court disposed of would soon come rolling back to the Vice-
s country should be taxed to sup- stowed so badly upon them. If they had not been taken must be reformed; his Right Hon. and Learned Friend Chancellor's Court, and occasion more trouble and expense
eland, unless they were clearly as apprentices up to the age of twenty, it was very pro- watt as able as any one to reform it. He (Mr. Taylor) to the suitors than if they were decided in the first instance.
saw that in the Cork establish._ bahle that they would never be taken at all, but remain was astonished that so many men of talent had been em- fie would not trouble the House any longer at that late
were professors of botany and mi- all their lives where they now were. The Hon. Baronet ployed for two years upon a report which no one could hour, further than to say that he intended to press for a
hink it was necessary to instruct then proceeded to animadvert upon the training insti- understand. His Right Hon. Friend the Home Secretary division.
!es. tutions and model schools, and contended, that as the knew little of the nature of the Court of Chancery ; and The House then divided, when there appeared for the
of the EXCHEQUER admitted Commissioners had presented their Report upon educe- he feared that Lord Eldon would find it no difficult matter motion, 66 ; against it, 113 ; majority, 47.
:e to bring all these votes within tion, there was no reason why any farther time should be to get the better of him.-(A laugh.)-He (Mr. Taylor) The names of the numbers appointed to serve on the
swum. He and his Right Hon. given, at least on this point, because it was not intended should not say any thing against the Lord Chancellor; he ballot this day were called over, when, on the motion of
sad acted upon that principle, and to adduce any other evidence. He denied that the Arian had often walked and talked with his Lordship concerning Mr. WYNN, Mr. CANNING; and Mr. HUSKISSON were
lin the estimates for this year as Professor of the University of Belfast had intermeddled with the subject of the Court. He (Mr. Taylor) had expressed excused.
r the last year of upwards of the principles of his -pupils ; and the strongest proof that his opinion freely ; his Lordship might think him an igno- CORN DUTIES BILL.
looked as if there had existed a could be given of this was, that one of his sous was a mi- rant, foolish fellow; perhaps he was.-(A laugh.)-The The Committee on this Bill was deferred until this dsy.
part of Government of enforcing nister of the Church of Ireland, and another was a Pres- country, however, was with him on this question.-(Hear.) SCOTCH SETTLEMENT BILL.
e House would perhaps bear with byterian minister of the synod of Ulster. -The motion of his Hon. Friend could do no mischief, Mr. KENNEDY brought in this Bill, which was read
r adverted to some of the points Mr. GOULBURN and Sir J. NEwrouT mutually ex- and it would show what the Lord Chancellor had really done, a first time, and ordered for a second reading on Monday.
pen by the Right Hon. Baronet. plains'.
Mr. PEEL observed that he was rather surprised at the Mr. H. DRUMMOND brought in the Scotch Frandu-
er Schools, he could take upon The gallery was then cleared for a division, when the course which the Hon. Member who last spoke had pur- lent Bankruptcy Bill, which was read a first time, and or-
e resolved to let them expire of numbers appeared to be-- sued, and at the warmth. dered to be read a second time on Monday.
>hers would in future be admitted For the motion 69 j Against it 135 Mr. TAYLOR.-I am not warm.-(A laugh.
ehools would be apprenticed to Majority against the motion 66 ) The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
Mr. PEEL continued.-At any rate there was an the House adjourned at One o'clock.
t possible. By these means the On our return to the gallery, we found energy of manner in the Hon. Gentleman who had walked
could soon be gradually reduced, Mr. D. W. HARVEY on his legs, moving for returns and talked with the Lord Chancellor, which was calculated
le allowed to continue in exist- of the state of causes in the Courts of Equity. The noise to make a great and erroneous impression. The Hon. THE REVENUE.
dby their own exclusive funds, in the House prevented us from hearing distinctly the Hon. Gentleman had avowed his object to be to extirpate poli-
No. I.
7,000/. per annum. The various Member's observations, but we understood him to say, that tics in the Court of Chancery; and it was necessary to
d been alluded to were already in no instance were the evils belonging to the Court of have the returns moved for in order to effect that object.- ABSTRACTAii ofth tehire,ENARRI
ended sth
of
ptrhiel. it
1:17,Nall of
%art':
tion by commissioners appointed Chancery so obvious as in the number of causes which lie (Mr. Peel), however, hoped that the motion would 1827, distinguishing the Quarters.
bought it would be inexpedient were depending there, and which had been for years so not he acceeded to until the House was perfectly satisfied
as ova a`' e V Zse-'n .-4X me)
t them to a second inquiry, until depending, without being disposed of. He instanced, that the motion was necessary for the purpose of delibe- 5..", g >4;3 -5 ,; „..-z '8 . ~,' 2 2,2l>ii g a
sioners was before the House.-- particularly a case which had recently occurred in the' rate inquiry, on the subject of the Bill before the House. 'v. F. '.., c, a E'a tgs-pLc--2v {i
?,la. - ,-,... e1,..5, Oa Et
ould assure the House theta was Vice-Chancellor's Court, where a person owing a debt of He had that confidence in the skill of his Hon. Friend who ~,, ~•. 2,., ,„ ,T,2 ~.- ...;,1 a F.ro a
is on the stage.-(Hear.)-The 50,0001. left his creditor a legacy of 6,0001. by his will. had given notice of a motion on the subject of the Chancery " Cho, .-1 E..;.3 ~ *p,a2, c . .:3. 3 2
ent was resolved on. Ministers The creditor was obliged to file a bill, for the purpose after the holidays, that he could not think it essential to a ,iaso• g. 0, -- ....• -4.
---:, e. G: li
~,, '3. •• • ', a
'
tion to curtail unnecessary ex- of establishing his claim to the 50,000/. When a Pe- full discussion of that question. If the real object of his "" X r-10 02, 'it.'
use estimates, and nobody could tition came on to be argued, it was stated by Counsel Hon. Friend were to discuss the motion of the Master of et" .2 E; 1 e.. .3 - ..i.; g' ;41
ii ee'' $ s' r.; '4. ia £8
r 'the adoption of some general that the cause stood one hundred off in the Lord Chancellor's the Rolls, then the case would be different ; but the infor- ~.) ,tz 4., r. I. i (.., 'L.g - 4
it the same time he was of opi- paper, when the opposite Counsel in reply said, that it mation sought for was in a great measure before the House t i:" •''el ''' 24 .'" PI ,;,' 5. a
..., -
. 'Baronet had made out no case was then likely that it would be one hundred years before He appealed to the papers on the table. (Here the Right ' VS. 4 Ig.: g- 3
Dmmittee.--(Hear.) that cause could be disposed of. The returns for which Hon. Gentleman held up the Chancery report.) But if g g '-.. EL: ...- oo m.....
2 ° S:L I 'ci m
'imposed to give Ministers credit he had to move were extremely important with respect his Hon Friend said, that the labours of the committee Z a .c . ; 17
I professed on the present occa- to the motions that would hereafter be made on this sub- were futile, then let the commission be at once superseded, "
2 a ; ,1%. ~,•,
the estimates were fraudulent. ject, and which, without the information that these re- and let the House itself undertake the investigation. But 0 ;;•.' see :te 4es
gt ; Fg o
me abuse. The charter schools turns would contain, must be made under great disadvan- if there be a report on the table of the House, and a Bill ', '" 421 t,l P
,600,0001., of which 100,000/. tages. To him it appeared wholly impossible that the also for the regulation of the Court, to be discussed after ...
.4 ,-, ~..
.to .:-....ea1a cie
As of the people of England. Lord Chancellor could do any thing like the duties which the holidays, it was but fair to the Lord Chancellor, to 4'fk i ":8.- -es ';
emissions of inquiry was enor- he had loaded himself with, and it was in the anticipation postpone the full discussion of the subject. Was there no in- P a, :6„, P,..7 ~0,...4.3 , who AM Fr..
moment, it amounted to between that they would create no discussion in the House he pro- formation which the Hon. Cent, required in the report?-- rts 2ggtig z% g :g ti E g g I .., -
He wished to know if there ceeded to move for the following returns :-let. A return Why, he (Mr. Peel) obsefved an account ofthe business heard
•efering the Report of the Corn- of the number of Causes set down before the Lord Chan- and disposed of by the Lord Chancellor from Trinity ya-
w ..., t; 4.-' c., P,..... `PS , ee.5,,e 0
....,9t go p7a t'
of the House, under a pledge cellor from the year 1820 to the present period, stating the cation, 1822, to Michaelmas vacation, 1825. This was a P .P sb; A At..,g :c5 .....,...o- .. 9D al
~...,. . 0.
ijthat Committee would confine times at which they had severally been set dawn, and how return to a motion by the Hon. Member for Ilchester (Dr. F, .0. §k g v,,,- -gii§ t`gg - 5
ects contained in the Report. they were disposed of; distinguishing the number of Lushington.) Several pages in the report were occupied -
_____ :
'red, probably, to hear of two Causes now in the Master's-office, from those on which the with a statement of the daily business of the Lord Chan- S.; $.. : 7 , Si' 1.7. j:0 .....,A.Z..4 , (4,
s having advised, in a separate Master's Report bad been made. 2dly. A similar return cellor for three years. If any Hon. Member desired to '.B F.'.
.$ Y. tg 4- ,
ei'43.., .§:g 0 E
be no further grants of money of Causes before the Master of the Rolls. 3dly. A similar know whether the business of the Lord Chancellor was or §g $3 "v. $ Ye," ~.1 c.,,§g4 t .$, . C c., c, 4- (..., -1 io,
lion for the present, because return of Causes before the Chief Baron of the Exchequer, was not too much for mortal man, he might satisfy him- 'lea
al professors employed in teach- sitting in equity, stating when they had been heard, and self there. He did not mean to say that the object of the ee as
.e)
_es ee
--J.'? >
el Arians. Nay, more-these when and how they had been finally disposed of. 4thly. Hon. Member was a personal attack on the Lord Chancel- 0,-, eD, ~-.4-,
~ -g g g 6;. kg.
revs had undertaken to settle a A similar return of Causes before the Vice-Chancellor. lor ; but he did say, that the motion was a reflection upon ee,el '4. '''''t '.1„; -..., "ei% 'l° '9.';' p. A, pi , --1 - ;
by an entirely new decision. 3thly. The number of Appeals to the Lord Chancellor the report of the Committee, and that such a proceeding w6;65 2 R •-..4 V::: '.'.65 • oval
professors, because Arianism from the Vice-Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls, and was placing the Judges of the land in a very embarrassing es z,-, e.,' tle -,e- .Pr-i•F• as e
übversive of the principles of the result thereof. 661 Y. A similar return of the number situation.-(No, no.)-He did think so ; and he had a t -t, i-a -6 cees g
~$
...111 ribi 4.7.4. v:
the divinity of Christ. From of Appeals from the Lord Chancellor to the House of right to state his opinion. It was a hard thing for the .r-ee re ea -,,,, .:i •reewee. •••-e- ' 's--e-s lipc7, c`,7.2.3i
s hitherto unknown definition Lords. 7thly. A return of the number of Bankrupt Pe- Lord Chancellor to have his conduct thus inquired into, t•-•• t '3' V- .- --el 513 a 54.
ought to have known that titions which had been lodged within the same period, and after he had furnished a statement of his daily business for - -
~.,
of philosophy, some of the the manner in which they had been disposed of. stilly. three years; it was humiliating to that Noble Judge to be
.i.:5 14 if I.‘ ..- .... e-esee ce.'s
zse se ..-C
Christian world, professed The number of original Causes, Exceptions, further Di- called upon daily to answer motions made in that House, ~§, ,
...-7., g gg :_:',,, ,
.....4.-A43.13, a.x d,7
e indeed questions unfit for rections, Rehearings, &c., which remained depending in before it had been decided whether the report of the Com- V 'it: 52 1, -7,..n 813 -E'R- "t
' co 1
A ... 4. G., 4., a 4 8-6.8 ,q,-.615 -
He did not introduce them, the Court on the last day of Hilary Term, 1927. 9thly. mittee was satisfactory or not. Without imputing to the ___
i
ro zealous and Hon. Members The number of Petitions in matters of Lunacy within Hon. Gentleman what he did not intend, he would op- e 7 ea Jo is; i:,S z-Y`-' 0, t
r report separately upon this the same time, distinguishing the periods at which they pose the motion, because it placed the Lord Chancellor in g 1
,ci' -g
;71
........., sAg
~:g gp. g s
,e not altogether unwilling to had been set down from those at which they were severally a situation in which he ought not to be placed after what 7.; -sE 1 2 1,,, if- ", ' :si .‘•-i:4 sr-i-q. ,z-, rs
le spirit of those times when disposed of. had passed. a dli .gV$ t ..t.6.`1: UEIS -‘g 8
-): S
ad about the right construe- On the first motion being put, Mr. FERGUSSON agreed with the Right Hon. Gen- 1-. ~,
~,, --' 15 ,
.14 .:-.."..P- ... r,
Mr. ATTORNEY-GENERAL rose and said, it was denims, that if the report 'contained any of the inforrna- .w - '_ e .-'4 li• egg is
~... . 1er...4§ K.-tft, - ''
elf the proposed grants, and apparent that under the cover of this motion, the true ob- tion sought by thee-Bars: lklethties--foi,Mlchester, the mo-' g ' ... .-‘r-
..0... ''.
W.
..,„ 8 1'
6 T,§ c-z. li§gi tz..:; -
1 one exception, than in any ject was to make an attack on the Lord Chancellor. The tion was unnecessary. But he (Mr. Ferginion) had read r
-
i 200,000/. return for which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman moved the report, and thought it did not. He was surprised that 1 t
..,,, P ..c4 „P ~.=,' '--.54.,P >
.oinplained of the premature was not at all calculated to further this object, for if it 'when an Hon. Member moved for papers, which it seemed 5e 0 Li v c
the evidence had been pro- should be shown that the Lord Chancellor had not disposed almost a matter of course to agg4_,tkev.s.tould be refusal. 4.6 SS. .g. Skt .". , , .5... , .:-.,..r., ~ ti
f.mkatme -se st it g L.--... z -gang ass -- (
C,!".lit 41 hir"-*prilt.. .atothr"rwrse fully, and to the public satisfactorily, exercised. the number of references from the Lord Chancellor to -
-'''"' .P-Fis"'" o
was one of financial revision. This subject had already been sufficiently handled by the re- the Vice-Chancellor, and the number of appeals, because -e- E i•-%4 P 1 P
.65 &:-... go Ctl.-1: g',:J' 0"7- s
lose sight of economy altog,e- port of the Parliamentary Committee, who had stated on a very important alteration was proposed to be made in 'l ,:sl ee es ,e- eaee .ce ess eer. es ear at cs
question of education. The the appendix to their report, the business done by the Lord the new Bill, namely, to give to the Vice-Chancellor an i li
§ ''el sq ' g; g'°2 '7l§l 13-g .P' a. b
Belfast institution was a new Chancellor, de die in diem. A motion similar to that original jurisdiction, which he did not possess under the
L- ,_____ rn. 1 . I. • ••• • . .

No. IL
the NET PRODUCE of the Rizvaxurs of GREAT
:he Yasas and QUMUCRILSI ended sth April,
chewing the Increase or Decrease on each head

Years ended April 5.:
...... N
1826 1827 Increase. Decrease.
Custotns ......... 16,361,755 15,864,598 497,157
Excise . .......... 17,802,892 17,339,580 469,212
Stamps ....... (5,809,346 6,238,0'74 691,272
Post OfliCe 1,519,000 1,400,000 47,000
Taxes 4,852,453 4,714,842 137,011
Miscellaneous_ 491,575 558,030 66,455

65.455 ),77f1,352
66,445

9,825,367

218,119

1 ,709,997

9,355,220

246,417

10,043,4E6 I 9,601,637

Quarters ended April 5,

1826 1 1827

£21,255
86,900
89,125
4,461,871
1,212,950

X 21,253
!n9OO

89;1ii
4,661,570
1,213,200

1,4(0,000
212,500
94,312
363,799

1,400,000
212,500
91,909
143,541

7,020,000
1,681,637

9,601,6g7

5,703,713

1,368,859

7,071,577