The Sun.
London, England, 1811-01-26 00:00:00

DIPERIAL:PARLLIMENI:

ROUSE OF PEEIi'S.
'RIDAT., JANUARY 25.
The.LORD CIiANCIILLOR tCJO< I,is Se:lt Upon the
`Woolsack at the usual hour, and some. or(kri re-
speCting the jUdicial;business of •the House were
made.
Lord AUDLEY took the oaths and his seat.
Their Lordship then. adjourned for some time
during pleasure.:
On the rebuming of 'the House., the Order.ol the
D4y was. read fur their Lordships goinginto a Com-
mitteee on the

REGENCY BILL.
•
Which being ordered, Lord WALSINGHAM accord-
ingly took the Cher.

Their:Lordships immediately proceeded to the
consideration of the Clauses..

.On the first- enacting' Clause, viz.—" That
Royal Highness George AuguStus Frederic Prince
cif Wales, shall have full power and, authority, in
the name, and on behalf of his Majesty; and under
the style. of Regent of 'the United Kingdom of
Great Britain 'and Ireland; Sze, ece."‘

4.abort conversation ensued between Lord Girti-
VILLE, .the Lord CHAyNCtiLLOIt, Lord REDESDALE,
Lord Aucttcabm, and the Earl of LIVERPOOL, in the

coorse.of which; one or two verbal .Amencnents

were made to the Clause.

On the' Secund, hr, Signature Clause, some fur-
th.er. discussion do4ue,l, .pliuLipally bctweeu the
above menliUreil Peers. . . .

Lo d GaLNVILLR Objet:ACCl to the 01064.101 U. for
fixing tie slut. unly ,by.initial letters, observing,
ihdt on sc,veral vej y important occasions the Royal
Si,nature•wa; made at lust length, as in the instance

Of all ccimmunicasions tc3 Pdlliainrut, warrants, and

Commissions for passing. Bills, -and in, other cases.
He thought that the signature of the Prince Regept
shot,ld cotresond with these 'diEferenctA, sc tt(at,
where the
,ROyal-sigtiaturb Was at 'lull length, .so,
should that tot the 'Regent he'; and where the
Icirmer was by initials, so should the latter. his
Lordship suggested Ali Aild6ndialent to this effect.
This proposition gave rise to some conversation
as ztbeve, in which the E:irl of Livcarciot. express-

ed hisoltininn, that a, little should be left to option
us pcsiible in such a case but that a regular and
precise mode should be enacted. No alteration, as
' we could collet, was made in this part of the Bill.
The next clause wheh produced discussion, .Was
that for fixing the time at which the operation
.of
the Bill W 33. to cease and deret mine.
• 'Lord` GRENVILLE announced his determination
to move an Amendment to this ciauseis he Should
not, however, take up their Lordships tithe, in the
present instance, with any obseryiltions:upou it
another opportunity would offer, and 'as ti,eir nine
was that night likely to be engaged in discussing
' another part of the Bill, what he should propose
was, that the-word ," Febru;iry," as now 'hi the
• clans* should be omitted, and, in lieu thereof, to
insert the word " August." On the fOriner occa-
sion, it had' been proposed that the ustriet ions
should• be 'enacted without any limn 4tion iti point
of time, but in the present instance' a variation wa
and.he•allowed pteperly, as the great dint:f-
ence of circumstances was Likcit int o cOnsiceiatit,in.
They had, at the moment, Ii wes cc, no precise
ithewledg,e as 'ha the siate of his 111a.i,sty'S malady ;
41unately, it would in all probability not of l'ung
Continuance. Under that imrression, therefore,
were there no other, if restrictiohs ‘t.ere proper, it
would be proper to fix their' duration .at the short.:
esepossible period; with.r&rence'to what had pre-
vionsly• come to their ktvwledgb iespecting the
Royal nialady. From the experience they had Of
• tbs.previons duration of it, the Ingest period, :he
thought, may be calculated at about ii.e months.
His Lordship then moved an ameudnient as abate.
stated, • •

'Earl Gh COrkliany agreed ' with his Noble
Pri,!nd; that:if 'any restrlctions at all were necessary,.
it-was proper to limit their duratiOn to the shortest
time possible. But he dissented from the whole
principle of this part ofstbe measure the principle
which deterininet - i his opinion thiS point was,
that thellegal pOweriwere'vested in 'the Crown,
only for the advantages of the people, and thcreiore
that no abridgment or restri6ttoo.'of these pc.4ers
could take place without; so far militating against
the ilmerests of the people.
' Lord ViscOnnt• Si DMOUTH admitted the consist-
ency of those who held th.tt no restrictions should
ex St, proposing co fix the shortest possible, time tor
their duration ; but he not'aoid expiessiug
his'astonishritent, that any one who thOught restric-
tions at all neceSsary, should propose to Nhometi their
duration to any given tiMe, ii, consequence of any
thing that had transpired from the examination of
the Physicians. 'Such a 'proposition could only be
made front one of two crises--either thatthe reco•
very of his Majesty was expected in• kW/ ceursa of
six Itnonths; or, that beyond thlt interval his
recovery was hopelesi. ; Should the Committee
adopt the amendment, it wollid, he must obsetve,
be on the authority of the
,Noble Baton who pro.,
poied it, and nut on that of his Majesty'sPhysi-
dians.

Lo►d GRRNVILLB insisted iliet his obiervation was
correctly founded on the testimony of the. Physicians.
Their evidence was in print, ,and a reference to,it
would soon decide the point.
Some conversation ensued, in which the Loud
Chancellor-I)We' a part,: anti Lords Grenville and
Gyey explained. The 'Noble and Learned Lord
spoke against the propobed ainendinenis,. and' the
Noble Baron ob4erving he would nut then persist in
the amendment, the same was negatived without a
di vision. •

:Same of. th2'subsequent.clanses of the Bill were
agreed to without discussion or amendment. 'When
their Lordships came to the eonsideraiihn of
. 140USE.1101.1) CLAU,SE,
Til9Uiti Of LANSDOWNII exprtssed his ob•
jetlions to ttw enactinelits of this part of the B;11, at
eottaiderable length. Tiiis clause could not, he ob-
served, meet with the concurrence ut their Lords:lips,
dhi they nay even the smallest regard to the consist-
ency of their own proceedings., No Noble Lord who
ha 3 .sited for the original Resolutions, could enter-
Jam the 'least idea that titebt3 KCSoltitioll3 would bu

carried intoifiA in, the manner now provided for l`n

the Bill belcireltisConatiihtee: The itegoiution sent

op from lie Cot rtnuits W.ai to framed, as to Warrant
a very difreient line of provision trout the mtletments
no under-C'on.ideration ; the twiner went pro-
pose that !.;uch eportion Only of
,the 110al'Hobi
hold was to be reWiNt,cl.ai'
.Was tviceitinty {or !be

personal comfort end dt.shity ufthe. Sovereign ; hot
by this clause, ill that put tion of-the esttbilsltinent
connected with the dignity .4 the. Supreme GaVern-
a-tent:was withdrawn iron) the Regent. Let the:t
Lordships look at the details of this clause. , From
these it was to be inferred, and it had been asserted,
that the office of Lord CUamserlain„ so long Mt! to
be necessary to the state and dignity of the Govern-
ment, was uow ilecessary tollie personal comfort of

his Majesty. Some lot the suboidinate Officers in
that department my be 'so deetned ; "but here it
was concluded, 'that tor the next• yen ti ere
should'be no such officer in e. xistcnce as the Lord
chambetlairn If the subordinate parts alone of

this depattment were deemed sufficient for the pur-
poses of royalty, why were nut she subordinate Offi-
cers only in the Lord. Steward's "department, or in
that of the Master of the Hurse„ considered +s

equally useful without their respoclive leado He .1
-agreed that a considerable degree of ditfiettlty
tained as to forming a dectrabl.e. Arrangement.' He
felt that Majesty, oven in eclipse, shoUld still be re-
garded
.as Majesty. It, was on the principle that
,such establishments, headed by persons of high rank
and atuttority, were essential to the 'due; slate and
splendour of the Sovereign; that they uere.allulted
for those purposes by the Constitution., Were they
now to depart from that principle,
.and _to consiilei
those great Officers of 'State: and Dignity, as, apper-
taining merely to personal :Attendance ? The •effeCt
of this Clause, if carried into' execution as it stood,
would be. to produce at the head of the State, a
partial and divided'.GovernMent. Tilts, he Contend-,
ed, would be the inevitable effect 01 enacting, that
such portions of the Royal Household should be 1.,.f
served. It was lea intention to.prnpose an Amend-
' menr, which should reserve a due portion ot these
establishments for the personal comfort, and doe dig-

nity his Majesty, thix he thought would
preferably done by a Bill, and that in the mean time'
no alterations Should be made by tier Majesty or

the 'Prince. Regent, until an arrangement, as he_pro-
poied, Shoola be. passed into: ;I law. , By .t,his,
such
portion, of the Household as was,neees3ary fir the
doe dignity and personal comfort of Ilk Majesty,
should be taken trom the coutroul of the person
exercising the Royal Authority ; but all that apper-
tained to the due di :tiny and state of the Govern-
ment should attach to the .person exercising the Su-
prerne.Authorty, Upon these, gronnds lie begged
leave to move as' an Amendment, that the voids

after "' Be it ;hen fore vnocted," tii the Sixth

Clause, be left (rat of the, B 1(1. the. purpose of
introducing "filat sucli puition 01 the
of NL6t,ty's Royal Household, as
shall he' by auy othLi Act lesei‘vd for the, due care
anti attef.dince of
.hi 4. :Majesty's Sacred Peison, and
theinainteiyance ii d 11.0 y al agility, be committed
to the'. Ore autl cliJrgeof the Queen's Most Excel-
lent Majesty ; find that until such Act pass,
no 'arrangement .shal4 be made.(exceot what the clue
attendance upon Ibis Majesty may require), or
that no ()cheer shall be I..ible to be teinoied from
the,sinne,

The qnestion being put, 1
The Earl of [Ayr:acorn rose and stated, it . must
be in the 'recollection of their Lordships, '111;4 in the
first instance he, gave every. opposition hi his power
io_ the Resolution,_ as formed so its to produce the
clause now, under coosideration, and upon the
ground that it, was preferable to leave any division
'or arrangement of. these 'important establishments,
to the future deliberative wisdom of the, Legislature
ac.ioiding as. cirennistances, may arise. It was his
wish that .ilia whole of the establishments should
remain with the Cruwu, subieet only to such spe«
eihe liMitations as, were stated in the .11esolutions--7-_
but the present, opinion- of both, Houses tseemed to
be for such a disposition of the establishment as ap
peared in the. Bill. The coosequences of this ditle,
rence of. sentiment, upon this part of the sohjel:ii,
produced the, difficulties, which were, now expertenee'd. What he had proposed would have obviated.
these difficulties, abut he was rather surkised after
tilt that had 'fallen from, rind been urged by those
who so MatrriallY differed Item him in these topics,
that the arrangement now desired was to be made
by :a future Bal. , This would, in effea, be leaving
the whole question of arrangement subjea -.to
future,,..disetission and future arrangemeut, ' ' He
confesst;tl his (Onion to be in favour of ~ the
principle ,of , limitation, in. pint 01, rime, but -in
every ;tithes . respea, to have followed , the. :prin..
ciple adopted in riio, and to have given to her
Majesty the full autltrity,over the Royal household.
lie. oust repeat a former observation of,liis„ which
'was, that ill all holial said or should say in ilio pro•
gress:uf these. di.cussions, that he. could possibly
mean no reOeetion upon either hi theillustrions per•
sonages to. whom the ',management of the Itoyal
houseltoldwas to be committed, • :Whether applies.
ble to his Royal Highness the :Prince of Wale*, Or
the Qw:en's most Excellent Majesty, the discuss
sions should proCeed,itod the queStiou be tried upon
public `grounds, and upon these alone, The. Amend,
meat winch he had proposed would.ohviatgboth the
4,ilicuitip. now fOr-,.,; With respect to the assertion,
that the high offices of Lord Chamberlain, Lord
. Steward, and Master of the llorser were no essen«
OM, to the personal comfort of his Maiestyibut were
merely requisite for state and parade, it -was a Posi,
that that he must deny—it was one upbn which they
were- at: issue. . lie said, and contended, those: great
offiees. were. also as necessary for the personal corn,
fort Of his Majesty, as requisite for the state and
splendour of the King—they 'were so mixed up lied
couneard with all the inferior office* and duties,
that he . would say it was a matter of arduous, di fi.
culty to diietalloglO and separaie thenaj and it was
wisely judged by the Copstitution, that
.the different
'depart menta of the Royal htiusehold should be: pre.
suled over by men of. high rank, charaoer, :and
-estate in the country.; They were attached to the
ptlSOn' of the Sovereign,. in such principles, and in
such a way, that he was certain they could not be
separated 'without a great deal of coniutiiim, and a
great deal of unforeseen inconvenience and mischief,

if undertaken at this tirne',
would it be reF,pettful, r,I
vhole principle! attic Brli,
therein ontsoned from
ort the leading ground t h... • .
Cons I.vdre:to be only CI a ti c cu.u.
wished to itn,:re,s Illts ConiiderAti.n Iva,1;11
wilds°, their Lordships. The ,t hole of the measu-
rropoSed-tiv his Ntije,ty's Minisiers on.this
iweasion, pr Teeded oar the leading principle that his
'ajesty's indisposition would bt but teinporai —t
it %.rOuld he but of short thu a t,on. Upon thiS groun4
it was that all these stipohOons were proposed,
and by no news with reference to the principle_: of
permanencarrimgement. Whatever ditticol:ies
tained,at worst_ We're bUrtqnliOCarl, and they I.
a very rational ground of hope that the niconVe•
niences would be of short duration. In forming4he
arrangements on this principle there was nothing to
likh alteration Fhould be made with, so
,sparing
hand, or be preset yeti ftoin aheration altosether,
the Household _establishment of his Majesty but
'whatever the absOlore necessity of the c,)se deo:arid•
ed, that necessity should be complied with.
they should not exceed that limit, and
,was there
any nne Si) ignorant of the humaurnind or -charaaer„
as not to say that the removal of all the. persuns
had the care and Charge of -One's domestic collect-us
and, affairs, ml s k a most unfavourable impres-
sion on the nrild of .any hdiviira a d wow,
so on the'mind of one placed in pt.'eunar
slam:6 as a S-w(.4rvign l!rincc ? All
th-tt the arrangement as p;opo,ed then,
should stard'lor t he p •riol of ots year trom 'hat
Inc regulaiions propose 1 hY Zvi nist rti w(,!Q
,4 to leaVe'liti hale gro ind for il,:t1,10o,1•,
'At the
.end pf that Cone, 11:e ft,gent, it- in power,
could Make a new arrangeMent;, N ming coo;ti
be done in that way without peronal
All that they asked fur was, :what t:iey deemed
for the due dignity and ii4ion:ll cuoitort ut,
his M thishad arrath;ecr on tliegr,At
principle lad do 'n as the ita'aol their whole tico,,
ceedings; that ot theprobaht recover) and Tc,U,np.
by his !Majesty of the Kingly poWet 5.
askedsfor no more thAii obvious propriety su„-I,,gester%;
and they were ready to admit of e4ery t!,e

;

cessity of the case rcquiltd. They kid, he rip. ilud;
reason to hope the operation of \Voliht 1“4
be of thiak continuance, and 014 had to hope II; it.
no'materiid alter:JtiOn would-be made in in,
jesty's Household until they km.:w what th,:, evynt.
would .be, Under this itopre,wm,
taint,yirrefet' the to 1x extendcd to one
year, and that ,the whole Hothehold, as in the case,
of 1769') sbould'he left under the controul of her
Nlajesty doting that period. The arahgeinetif
temiOrary, attli, consittoring the shortnes, of the
terval, no sei ions inconvs•nience could arise. ' .Wtre
arrangement prupted to be of a pet tnatteut
lure,
.then the objections on the settle of lottleoce
Would app!y ; but as the whole was h_Jt a.tempO,'
rary arranement, and' at farthest not or long (4314.:
;ion, hey all lad reason conri,t, nly to exited
and td hOpe wi,ald be of much less duration than Ciin-
teroplate,d by the provi,iuns of the l3i.i, Ito part of
ttid atrailgerdent could be rattuitalli objected to On
that grouLid.,

Et-1 GttaY contended that, in regulating their
conthia on the present occasion, their Lordships'
House should look to, and be guided-by, the Rest.i
Itatiiiits they had alreadragteed to, and sanaionrd ;
and not to the opitlion of, any indlvideal, Ito •vever
respectable the opinion of that individo d might be
considered. He was only anxious that their Lord-
shipsshould establiso the opiniint they had itheaiv
expressed in their Ile“.iltition.) for the principivi , .
laid down in these Resolti: ions were plain and
, The substance of that prim ;plc tLit
the departments of the Houschott sle tt,,t
separated' from each oilier and from th,,
trient,' or transit reed inn) a tpiart, r
might be created and no!r:
and adverse to the operatiots of that Gi),
Aa the Clause of the Bill now stood, it t
longer On the basi4 of the ceiginoilltoo!it
kutled to throw-the poWer inio,the
Queen 60 far as, it being thew plaCel,, it aw:,lit
duce to itrengthen and support the interest ot
sent Administration. W heat t hat portion of his .\
ty'sHooseholdWasresolved to be vcsted iu t ht a
moo Excellent Majesty, what interprclation W3ti •,
Out upon that llosoloi ion ? Was it meant that thq
portion should comprehend all that was snitahle to
the dignity, or necessary to the stile of the Sovo-
reign, or only such pottion as might ht dec:Med re-
quisite to hi 3 couveuience and comforts itl his fret
sent situ ition, or (I'oll Oil his tecJvery ? To ni,h
it app'eJted that tuclt %vas hot the viewi
lion of the clause.' On the contrAry, it appealed
to be intended to ereh somewhere ti groilt
potter, •a great politteal influence, which ‘it.;;„ to
counteract that of the Oovernment of Reget:t
ibr tt pr0t,id,..,1, that all the great • Untied ot the
Houselibld should betaken front the I.Vcgent„
coot two, and plaCo4l. iti the hands of the attecti':, - •
By si doing, something like 3 fraLld or deceit
be.praalsed on the Plince, or on Parliament.' The
titter made to his Royal Highness by,the Resolu.
Lions 'of the two, Houses of Parliatucute spoke a
very difLrent language front what was,held out to
him by the presvit Clause, and the Prince would
theretwe be imposed upon -if the etause. wt re to
pass in as present form. In etleo, as the clroi,e
now-stood, the patronage of the Hoosehold wtatid
be clividyll into fnity7tiine parts, hirtysevect„
avhieh would be possessed by, the Queen, :7114.1 two
only would be left to the Prince. nis
opinion, would be a strange arrangement. It w
such aS he could not imagine ih the Nob;c Lord
on the Woolsack, when presidi! , in ,:tnnthci
pi city,. in a high place, could, prev.il on
to adopt. When atting in his judicial .
:cases of a nature siniil.ii to the prcieii, Lo,tid
.not bring himself Pc) ,helieye that the. Noble and
Learned Lord Would come to I.tod
decide, that out •of 49 parts, 47 Shtitild
to, the widow, and only two to the lien, oni,t
the Noble arid tied tjord tain4tlitio;stith dt.'4
by any other person irt tt pieseitt case
,114 t
would whittle to ask tne,Larnett and. Noble
whether, in the Court of Chancery, he would coo.
,cienticiusly resolve upon such a decision? He d, u
ed not, but that iu such a .ct e, the Noble at,,.

!.

-~.
~:

k

+F

!:1

.#0