The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-09 00:00:00

the effect of giving a power to the Secretary of State on
extraordinary occasions of opening letters, and of re-
sealing them with the Post-office seal. But if this ques
torn was to be whether they were to give the power,
without modification, or not give it at all, certainly he
should vote against its being given at all, for he must
say, to slightly alter the words of the Hon. Member for
Shrewsbury (Mr. D'lsraeli), that this system of opening
letters was nothing either more or less than legalised
hypocrisy—(Hear, and laughter)—a system of false
hood, countenanced, recognised, and legalised by Go-
vernment. And if he were to adopt any opinion on the
subject, it would be the opinion expressed on another
subject b:v the Hon. Member for Dorsetshire last session,
that " what was morally wrong could never be puliti
oally right." The very same argument as was used fur
the employment of spies, might be used in defence of
this system of opening letters. They might conceive
themselves justified if they suspected any man of being
dangtrous to the Government—they- might, he said, con-
ceive themselves justified in employing a person to be-
come the servant of that man, and thereby get at all the
private sentiment-r and proceedings of that individual
breeah the agency of one whose fidelity ought to be in-
orruptible, but who, in violation of every sense of duty
ad honour, should report the secret, and, as was sup-
Posed, the unobserved proceedings of his master to the
Government. Me therefe theught that, under all
these eirenmstances, he wasre, bound to vote for the Bill
of his Hon Friend, and if they wished not to promulgate
a great fallacy throuelient the country. they .shOuld
how the. Bill to he breiight in to abroeate, the ex,reise
chivy
Power, anti int roquee e eletise 'vii -h should entiele
the. zsecretary of Steep, under certain cases. toi-xereiee the
Power, net in a secret, but in an open fp:timer He bed
understoOd that the Austrian Gov, rnment werein the habit
• of opening letters and of resealing them with the seal
of the pose.,,ffig,,.
That was a manly and straiebtfor•
ward course, tie d he coeld et ee why this c. untry
could not ienitete so excelleetn san , xiitnple. Fer these
reaeons h. eh, iiil,l e, 40 for the moii„e of his llon.Friend.
Mr- HUME said, that th- real question bets re the
Hells,- was, whether the Government hould be anew, d
to inierfere with the proceedings iif fo eign rs in this
c' tienttY• Thet it was in itself a most odious anti int-
§eacretary for
(into .us abuse, ;el if the Hight lion. Bar net the
the Home Depertivient (Sir James Gra
ham) knew hew much his character, both political and
ales of ~ isTO,
~,
(ci • moral, had been dameged throughout the country—
House) IT from the inis one si e
b e'°O. Gentlemen might express their pi ,ions
t.eueoe's) ex
11,8, tee,Y thought proper, but according to his (Mrs
experience such was the case ; and he be-
that that if the Right lion. Baronet were aware of it,
hat he would be one of the first to consent to the ri mis-
sion of this most odious and unjust power ; and he could
not help
of a power, which,
asking why he should object to the abrogation
by his own acc-unt, had caused him
thbe badgered, torme one and abused, from ne end of
the
country to another. He could tell the Right
nourable Baronet,
w that this torment and badgering
as not
without a ground, and -he effect on his ewe
be would, he (Mr. Hume) felt assured,-
Permanent as well as injurious.—(Hear, hear.) He
saw no reason why, if' this power were to be exercised
In the supervision of foreigners resident in this country,
seewere supposed to be engaged in some pro-
dings hostile to the Government of other nations, it
should not also be exercised over Englishmen, who
!night be enraged in similar combinations. England had hitherto been the refuge of the world for men per-
secuted for their political opinions in other Countries,
and were they now to throw aside this, one of the
greatest of the glories which the country possessed, -
SimPlY for the sake of interfering with that with which
we had nothing to do? He must say, that he could not
envy the Minister who desired it, and the sooner the
Power of opening letters was totally abrogated the
bettor.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE rose amid loud and repeated
cries of '' Divide, divide," and said that he was sorry to
bear the decision to which the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir
question
Graham) had come. He had hoped that this
staestion might have been amicably disposed of by ac-
ceding to his motion for the abrogation of the odious
Power which had now so frequently been reprobated in
that
House, of opening letters passing through the
4-ost-office.—(Hear.) Under present circumstances,
_ the letters of every man were precisely in the same
Position as the papers in a men's desk. If the owner of
!beta were suspected of dangerous or seditious proceed-
:ll,gs, the issuing of a warrant would at once subject
there to scrutiny. His Hon. Friend the Member for
London (Lord John Russell) was the only person who
has sat on the Secret Committee who had spoken on the
subject, and he had expressed himself as quite opposed
to the existence of this power. He (Mr. Duncombe)
!itherefore felt entitled to consider the sentiments of that
on. Member as the sentiments of the Committee.—
„k:' No. no," from several Members) Why, there was
sue Noble Chairman sitting there (Lord Sandon) and he
said not a word in contradiction. But whether this
Were so or not, this practice of opening letters
. , Was abhorrent tip the the people of Eneland(Hear,
hear)—and, he behaved, contrary to the principles
of the Constitution. Such, at least, hid b• en the
°pinion expressed by Lords Denmen arid Campbell in
the House of Lords ; and he might, it is true, be
accused of possessing a " privient" curiosity, but he
liras- curioue ti know hoe tar the sentiments of the
Noble Committee coincided with the opinions of those
'"ble Lords. At any rate, he was determined to know
w
e hether the law iv, uld justify any (n4n in the act, either
Y himself or his depute, of opening the letters of
another. Ile should certainly appeal. to the Court of
11; *.en''' Be, ch, to a-eertein a hells r tie, warrants issued
el 'arri,ti S. Cren ter). •, f 'ettve were I, eal or net —(Greet
- -
tb, ar was hre made te divide.) He' (Mr. Diancortbe)-
the'lleght that Hi in. Gent!, men were mere anxious about
4!at,..•.lintiers, than about the. business of the country,
:'l,(let divide)—but he was determined to do his fluty,
wi:i(hihstantling the obstruction, the unfair obstruction
et.had been thrown in his way, and attempt .witli his
e_ lost, exer.tien to do away with this odious, villaineds,
4114i-ost in:quit:ins power.
The House then power.
when there appeared—
For the divided,
against it
m_ri.P, ....... :
a 3 '3' ntrainst it —B3
k
Mr. mAcRiN ",141 OF TOW NS.
the 1.1
--(nue to oho ON then rose to call the attention of
Commissioner, on"
the
of the Committee and of the
terments within th Le
he could not do Health of Towns, regarding in
bcse precinct; of large towns. lie thought
46111. to male, the eter, in the few observations he was.
Petition which',r n state to the House the terms of a
„netitute of ei ,e held in his hand, from the Mechanics'
Lai_ Ruler a manner,tlnhe:ndr. The ' • was worded in so
petition
878 about to so applicable to the subject he
to the House, that he
th°llll rend the firPrn
a they worked first
Pp°a'ret that. it The petitioners stated
that
„.hard, they
, after their . and
hardthey cued her they dived hard, and
t°that they deemed it doubly
~„ enormous.
ex *-'.r death, their families should be put
utter their bei en in having them interred, and,
metted
as
tbeng interre, their remains should be dose-
hester. H. bY constantly were, in the town of Man-
reinetne, d ezged leave ..., t_ ere , about eto present that petition. He
, wartrli this „lei Lore° years ago, when he first
be met with Pre under the attention of the House,
Were to A laueb,
W a" nPon the''...'
her and joking, and observations
tilts the ease
, three surclity of his rroposition. What
ofett.°Pieten of that house
afterwards? What was now
_,efe country u use, end what were the sentiments
nwithoet Pton the subject? He had had petitions
nunaber _ Ipfieations ei i the° present to that House. He had had
Dints were fon ut end on the subject, and the public
b r°''' one end of °f
the nuisance of these interments.
:. een a strong andthe. kingdoM to the other there had
_8.11).e alteeation
in
t;ioleint feeling. pecifed in favour of
sae'
this praci. e present system. He was perfectly
tisti e to be diseountace of interments ought in some mea
eeeeeceieded or not einaneed by the House, and whether he
get --nR' he wool n getting a vote in his favour that
o._ the House .0 Use his beet endeavours at all timee to
don't to
CI
_',l oerne cis beet
resolution that this nuisance
'''ilit yet, h..,4oa.ted. But it might be asked, " Why
'ate imiviroliac,in.ia Bill ?" -Ilk answer was that a pr i- 1
eht_ninetit,noutel t 1,0 himself, unconnected with the Go-
vin . 'ince of
U not by any possibility with the slightest
em success es •
(r.
~
tho a
every one urine in a Bill, because he was coll-
et, Mttila of who differed with him would cavil with
_.r hitn t,,‘ the Bill—it wauld be utterly impossible
toion tepro",,sis)o‘ ceeed in it. It was therefor.. his intim
wpinion„ftylis4e, the following resolutieti—" That it is the
,itbin the r,r dtise that it is inexpedient that interments
he °Ohl be ,„'" "Inas of this teetrepelis end large towns
de ft
or
tbeontieuee,
eu both as being injurious to the
itgecencyet ..,,P,c0p1,,, and as being contrary to public-•
il!.s to this lie
anteceded in persuading the House to
diln f 0,,,, - re,olution, he would then pledge himself Si,
ezglocit, all a llille but it must be at the sam- time
',toile. ; naeereteed ti ' h `--
in -i ror tt . i.t...- sootild do so only as the
S' • He Govern
% ' Into the Government. IVit hiiut going back te
e 8.., . e practice of intermeets in the time of
ole eviotte
,Jectea ,or tote time of Constantine, 1 i the was
With. i t, htt._, who i) eo In the honing the dead, either in churches or
tee precincts tif towns,he would
sehte Mt (me,_ , lame
I„teiect. The 1." the recent reports upon this
ei ge toe nu tirst notice taken of interments within
taasiksued bwas, bY the Ecelesiestical Commission, which
e.Peee
and y the order of Government, which made its
1;10(11te,h,'
wiiosts;hteh report was signed by certain indi-
te, over, to ajleineo be would mention. Previously,
ti)atrjr.t. 'illeng $(11
he would read an extr Ice from
tip' the .liiiiettet'cal Commissioners reported
ears
4. practice of leixt.ia;ls- in churches
° ens. 1-0 Us in jaia_ .
.. or chancels
tte iye_i_
.ny respects injurious—in some cases
~fit,eehorah......o orn.e instances to shut out the public from
41 s of the 'nd in others it has a tendency to affect civ-
til,_ Inhabitants. We are, therefore, of opinion
Fiatii,e 24 praetie, should be discentinued far as
Nee can no effected with 1-• . ,so the
si Y who out treneuieg on vested rights."
Igeod by the
orn was this report • •
'54 Y tne •signed? Why it was
104, on, the Biel) Archbishop of Canterbury, the Bishop of
11,‘I Tent„,, 01) of Durban), the Bishop of Lincoln,
if i!dal, ee,e'_°.o, Lord Welford, and Mr. Chief Justice
b. Its re„(7 What was the use of issuing this Commission,
eel rrt seae nr ticese did grin In
to be attended to? In 1842 the
nf7the the honour to grant him a Committee
stea a Gentle;3 1 which lie was chairman, and which
th,Z,,e Uoi,s,eolnen.who OCCUpiCd scars on both sides
‘vitie'eloraitt .? whet was the unanimous report of
h, in th. ec It was that the
Nth - Precincts fI ' practice of interments
to pof the . 0 arge towns was injurious to the
. übii_
_, e inhabitants thereof and f l
Nefte :; tieceney. 0, , - , requent y o ensive
its r Invest.
.. i wnat use now was I hat Committee,
4 a dead 1 Iga‘tug evidence, its report was to be treated
/Os were "ter? Ziir Benito • B e• '
e:g.tl. ' examined before , mu ro...ic and Dr. Chain-
its al'e eminent . that Committee, and what
btv. s ea, ,„o practitioners say? Why, the first
off vg),Yaras •l' you consider the crowded state of the
44. in this metro xris •
%raid °r disease?" ~._ r) is in any way the cause
lippite ereel it i, The answer was, " I have always
to . t s one " '
t, et 0 cam,. Then Dr Chamber: being
lar""4llnit,..' a 3 to whether .
fast klb . -.7 Wig 0,.
..
.1. the health -of the teLowies„. eay.
.V 4 t not injured by interments in
tf 12.1 a fever%„_,444 statealent:—" I have no doubt
Weir',,ndoe, owe their even in the cleanly qaarters
that 'of , the, ••- a. origin • toputrid 'in "
mias a. lie
trouble the II --'
as tak„, ~ °l,lte *ith any furthCe evidence
nefare. - that- Committee. trow,

after this report and the report of the Ec-
clesiastical Commission were on the table of the
House, what did his Right lion. Friend the Home
Secretary state ? Why, the Right Hon. Gentleman
stated that he did net believw theie was any injury
done by interments in large towns: But the Right
Hon. Baronet not being 'satisfied with the results
of former inquiries, apppointed Mr. Chad Wick, the
secretary to the Poor law Comenissiohers, to investigate
this suoject. Mr. Chadwick was engaged from. the
middle of 1842 to the middle of 1843,,ininquiring into
the matter. and then his report was laid before Par-
liament. And what did they find -in' that repert ?
Why, that ail interments in close towns contributed to
produce atmospheric impurity, and yet the Right Hon.
Baronet was not satisfied with this opinions
It seemed to him quite clear that his Right Hon. Friend
having that report before him, was afraid to give offence
to certain parties. He reminded him of the Pope at
Rome, aho said that the acknowledgment of a certain
fact represented to him would be inconvenient, and that,
therefore, the only course for him was to deny it. One
objection to the measure was, that it would interfere with
the vested rights of the-established ch rgy. But the fact
was, that a large majority of the members of the church
were in favour of the measure ; and in support of that
statement he relied upon the evidence of the Bishop of
London and the Rector of Leeds (Dr. Hook). The great
mass of the Dissenters were also in favour of it, and they
were not at all adverse to a provision for preeeaeirig the
'vested rights of the clergy. Before he sat down, he
woull•eall the attention of the House to the Seem:A Re-
port of mhe Committee on the Health of Towns. The
Second Rep :rt stated. that the attention of the Commit-
tee had been brought to the injurious effect of the
crowded state of churchyards in large towns—(not re-
ferring to London)—especially in Shields, Cheater, and
other teams named He would now come to another
statement made to him by a gentleman, a
pritialpa/ member of one of the lens of Ceurt,
who wrote to him am communicate facts of the.
most startling character in support of the Bill.
toe of . hose statements referred to a place formerly
celled Dion chapel, in the limn:. diate neighbourhood or
Lincoln's Inn. Thee place was used in the morning as
an infaet school, and in the evening as a place for
In the cellar were deposited the bodies of
nearly 9,000 p,,rsons, from which an -intolerable stench
was emitted. In the summer a peculiar insect made its
appearance. whilst infectious disease was spread through
the neighbourhood. The poi:cc had been applied to ;
but the authorities declared that they had ne power to
interfere to remove the charnel-house, or to prevent the
saturnalia that were carried on within it. The letter-
was signed by Mr. G. Grace, the principal of Clement's
Inn. The moon. Gentleman then referred to a work
Published by the amiable and learned Evelyn,. in the year
'1729 in widet that, good man referred to the practice
of the ancient Christians not to allow - the dead to be
buried within :be precincts of their towns ; much less
(according to Evelyn) would they have allowed inter-
ment in their temples.. The practice of interment.
within, churches commenced in the reign of
Charles 11., which was no high authority
for the practice. The number interred in
this metropolis etnountecato 1,000 per week, making a
total of upwards of 50,000 a-year. Look, then, to the
enormous : mass of human bodies accumulated in the •
grave-yards of the metropolis in the course of twenty
-years. He was assured, upon high medical authority,-
that if the 'practice were continued many years longer
some `dreadful epidemic would suddenly spread amongst
the•people. He put it to the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Sir James Graham) to think of the responsibility which,
would fall upon him, if, by rejecting this measure, he
was the means oabringing about any such-plague. Was
it not extraordinary and disgraceful, that in this great
metropolis, the centro.of the civilisation and the wealth
of the world, such. an evil was continued ? That we
were so wedded to the abominable practice of interment
in large towns that neither the Government nor'the Le-
gislature would interfere to put an end to it ? He sup-
posed that his Right Hon. Friend would plead the diffi-
culties of the.question. But surely those difficulties
ought not to deter his Right Hon. Friend from the per-
formance of a great duty. What he proposed to make
to the House was an abstract proposition condemnatory
of the practice of burying in large towns as injurious to
the public health and to public decency. In submitting
that proposition to the House he was willing to leave
the measure in the hands of the Government, if they
would take it up. If they did not, he would proceed
with his measure himself ; and he would renew it next
year, and again and again, until he succeeded.—(Hear,
hear.) He concluded by moving a resolution to the
effect which he had stated.
Mr. HUME seconded the motion. lie thought it
highly discreditable to this country, that whilst Ger-
many, Spain, and even Sicily had taken measures to
prevent pestilence to the living, from the indecent
sepulture of the dead in crowd, d towns, the abomination
was allowed to continue in this country.—(Hear, hear.)
It was vain for us to exclaim against the barbarity of
savage nations who destroyed one another, whilst our
Legislature allowed pestilence to be engendered and pro
;emigrated for the destruction of our own people.—(Hear,
hear.) He could not believe that the Hon. Baronet
.vould allow this state of things to exist I;:nger. He had
stated that therm- was a measure to that effect about to be
introduced, hut it was his (Mr Hume's) opinion it would
he of no effect without comprehen jug interment. In-
stead of botaering themselves with curtailing the hours
of mabour of citizens in a healthy state, the Government
ought to interfere to cheek this practice. They
aettned, however, to be utterly apathetic as regarded
this important matter. The lionoerable Gentleman
.hen proceeded to read extracts from the ebservatione of
Dr. Reid, and Mr. Brandt, respecting the dele-
teri nis qualities of the miasma, arising from
churchyards, remarking that though it did
cause. material and sudden disease yet it frequently ge-
nerated it by slow degrees. What would be the state of
those inhabitants in the neighbourhood of a churchyard?
If they had a regular plague in London how soon the
Government would take measures to stop it ; but what
was this but a plague in a lesser degree. Their infor-
mation was not founded on their owe country ; Professor
Brandt " states that in Paris the water generally con-
tained a quantity of organic matter, and that it received
a colour from the soil, and that a great number of them
were adjacent to churchyards." It Was near 18 years
ago since he moved-for returns of the number of church-
yards, their extent, and the number of bodies interred in
them during the year. The reports laid on the table of
the House. Let any one take up the list and it was
enough to disgust any individual Member of Parliament,
and persons of high rank should recollect that they had
duties to perform, and that they ought to consider the
situation of helpless masses of the people, and ought
to see that they were not hastening the
death of their fellow-creatures in this manner, which was
nothing less than savage. Dr. Reid gave instances 1
where 20 coffins were interred in the space of one grave,
and stated that they were so full of carbonic acid that
time grave digger could not venture to go down. He hoped
that the Hon. Member's motion would be supported, and
that Hon. Gentlemen would lend their aid in removing
this evil. Every passage of the book from which he
quoted contained evidence so strong that any one who
read it woull be convinced of the great mischief result-
ing from the practice. When the returns were made, he '
was sure that Hen. Gentlemen, by paying attention to
them, would see that tens of thousands of pounds which
they were employing to improve different parts of the
world, would be better made use of in assisting that un-
fortunate, hardworking, and valuable class, who became
incapacitated, and were disabled by the bad atmosphere
which they breathed. From the humane feelings of the
House he knew that the Hon. Manila r's resolution
would be carried triumphantly. If the lion. Geode.:
manahe Secretary of State for the Home Depaatmeot
prepared t Bill to abola h that nuisance, •it would meet.
the same fate. He should like to see the man who
would oppose it. The latter was the course which he
would recommend, and he was of opinion that the Right
Hon. Baronet would pursue-it.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that the Hon. Member for;
Montrose expressed a hope that he should hear some-
thing from him on this subject which would be satisfac-
tory..
But he was afraid, from the exaggerated view
aken en this sulijeet, that he should disappoint the
Hen Member. The Hon. Member for Lytnington (Mr.
arackinnon) had stated. that when he first brought this
matter forward two or three years ago, it was received
with j--era and laughter. He (Sir J. Graham) must say,
that the Hon. Gentleman's memory was deceptive on!
hat occasion. He saw and heard many discussions with.
seference to the public health, and he was sure that a
discussion respecting the health of so large a portion of
die community was never discussed with the slightest
violation of decorum. His Hon. Friend had r ferred to
his responsibility in this matter—net in direct terms,
,) At in ti-rats not to be misundersomel. He called hint
sepine, and negliet-io, and said that he
teas courting spurious popularity,. and went so far as t
sty, that persons in his position—Members of the
House of Commons—from their station were disposed
to neglect the lower orders. He (Sir J. Graham) was
perfectly aware of his responsibility. He was guide d
by a sense of his duty in the matter. But looking to
he importance of this matter, and seeing how much it
was connected with the interests of the poorer claeses,
he should pause before he should.give his assent to this
resolution. Ile must be permitted to obseavea that
customs in foreign countries were quite inapplicable to-
the consideration of this question. In foreign countries
they had no scruple in having recourse to quicklime and
various other minters for the purpose of decomposing.
bodies, which would by no moans be admitted here.
With regard to the particular case, it was no..auch easy
matter at once to declare by force of an Act'of Parlia-
ment that relations should not be:buried in places where
their kindred had been buried. .He would not believe it
to be a matter of expense or outward decorum. There
existed inward feelings—feelings which were entitled to
the utmost respect, and which were' not peremptorily to
be violated by any one. His Hon: Friend said that, with
respect to the practice that prevailed in this.city regard-
ing the interment of the dead, there existed a strong
feeling—that the. practice was abhorrent to human na-
ture, disgusting,and classed thein with barbarians. He
was reminded of his duty with respect to public.
health ; he demurred to the opinicin that public
health was injured by interments in, cities.. Con-
sidering the amount
~of population, there was no
metropolis in Europe where puhlic health prevailed to
the same extent. .Then the Hon.. Member said that this
was a painful subject, and not suited for discussion is a
public assembly like this; The Hon. Gentleinan the
Member for Montrose ieferred.to the fact, that health
was impaired by residing in the neighbourhood of
_churches.' Thai he did nut agree to. The Bishop of
London, for he- did not see why he should. not give his
authority, told' hiin that, when he was the rector of
Bishopsgate, that the rectory vas contiguous to. the
iahuicbeand.he'retnatrked that at no period were his wife
, and family more healthy than when they. residared there.
4Witheregarel to the rectory of Ste ditmeeas and St. Gilme'e;_
dideneelietleve that. these tesaideoxea Weia.unhealthy;
nor did lie-believe that Gtorgeaiteeit;t near • 'Sc. aMeri
lgaret'e,aw:as. --unhealthy,. but: lid •underata6d, :that, - • it.
was; one 'of the most healthy klaCes. in the Citt
es