The Sun.
London, England, 1829-02-28 00:00:00

Thames in favour of emancipation. The Hon. Member i lower in 1527 and 1826. The deficiency in wages in
observed. that in his np:n en: theme would he no peace for other years was made up in the account of stores—so
the empire if en.ancieetion we-- net carried, meet, of n ships" Mini/ hI If IWI-..1 to each, and charged
T:IE GAME LA,A'S.. ase iinst their wags. it occurred to him that it would
;Vim S. Wt:RTLEY lirooght in a Bill "to authorize simplify the aces cuts to lieve :he whale einount of wales
the sells of game, and to alter the qualification taken for put under one head. Tiles the amount appearine under
the killing of g.arae in England." The Bill was read a the head of " stores" was considerably n duced, and a cor-
first t and ordered to be read the second tune on Fri- responuline amount was added to the cliaree for wassee,
though there was, in fact, uo real addition to the wagem—
tam, mot to he printed.
3;r. CAREW pr-Vented four petition' in favour of the object of the change being to put each account in its
enieticioetimi, from uliffereur parts of the county of We'd ird. wrist simple form. He hid no objection to give any Hon.
Mr. fIANKES presented three petitions against eamn- j Member an opportunity of examining the detene, in orner
tips ion from Dauldebehire and Carneirthenshire. tn Mew how the difference had accrued. The artemunt of
Co' inel CUST prmsented a petition from Cheshire of a this anperert incresse of 3a. per man per month for wages
like nie ere. Iwas 59,000/. ; but, is he had already said, the amount of
Me. SYKES presented a petinion from Hull in favour ef I the charge for stores was reluced in the same proportion.
emancipation. The most undue mearet had been resorted i The next item was the charge for victualling. That had
to in order to get ttp petitmoe* against the Catholics in ' increased in consequence of the increased price of flour,
Mull. He had received a letter from a trieed which etat-d : and had created a necessity for adding Is. per month per
that persons were posted at eimpuloore, like barkers at ! man. This, with the addition of the 3.. per head on the
One of these men irate of wanee, made this branch 78,000/. greater than it
meck a:m.6one, to solicit signatures.
reductions in other
asised some sailors to sign the petition, and when they heel- I we. in the last year, lint still, by
tated he said, " My laas, do you want the Catholics to branches, there would be a reduction en the whole of.
take your wages and cut your throats ?" The sailors still 117,000/. as compered with the last year. With respect
hesitated, when he said, "If you do not sign, yout wave I to the public offices in London, there was no diminution,
will be taken away and your throats cot." A copy of the I but some ,ncreise of expence. This would he seen in the
declaration of tire mutineers at the bore in 179 n was like- 1 vote for contingencies ; there were many nautical surveys
wise ptacarderi. If a sailor were told that Popery was to lin progress in different parts of the world, and the en-
he intoxluced into the country, he would readily sign a pe- I graving and publication of charts, which had thus become
tition ; but if he were told that he was likely to lose his necessary for the information of the public, had necessarily
wages, he would aka it twice ever. created a considerable expence. The Committee were
Mr. O'NEILL said that the sentiments of the majority aware that by an Act passed last year the Board of Ilngie
of his ,:onetitiments were adverse to the measure of ounces- tulle was abolished. The expence of this Board consisted
Men. and as a. isroof of it referred to the fart, that on the , of the charge of 1001. a Year each for five Commissioners,
last election he had been plaeed 500 a-head nn the second who were professors of Oxford. There wan also 1001. a
day's poll, solely with reference to his opinions, as con- year to the Astronomer Royal ; there were likewise three
treated with those of his Hon. Colleague on this very Ties- gentlemen of eminent scientific acquirements who were
tion. It was a conviction of the sentiment' of the people engaged at 1001. a year each. When the Board of
le this respect which prevented his Hon. Colleague from Longitude was put down, the Admiralty thought that it
being chaired on that occasion in the town where he re- would be proper to retain the services of those three
Bided. With respect to the information conveyed in the gentlemen it their former salaries,—to act as a council,
letter which tn.s Hon. Colleague had read, lie thought that whose advice might be resorted to on questions of science
little weight ought to be attached to as anonymous corn- connected with the public service; and when he named
Inunleation. the gentlemen whose services were thus engaged, the corn-
The petition wag read, and ordered to be printed. niittee would admit that nine stood higher in scientific at-
On the motion of Sir HENRY PARNELL, the plans tainrnent. The act limited the choice to .Members cf the
and estimates of Mr. Telford for the Liverpool road were Cuuneil of the Royal Society, as that would afford the
ordered to be laid before the House. best chance of giving men fully qualified fur the service re-
The Earl of I3ECTIVE presented two petitions from quired. The names of the gentlemen selected were Dr.
parishes in the county of Meath, in favour of Emancipation ; Young, w
Captain Sabine, and Mr. arreu. One of those
also a petition for the repeal of the Vestry Act.—Ordered gentlemen as engaged in making iF mportant experiments
to be printed. on die manufacture of glass. The charge thus incurred
Mr. KNOX preseri•ed a petition front a parish in the would not, be was sure, be considered too touch, when
county of Tyrone in favour. of Emancipation. the importance of its object was censidered. There was
Mr. M. FITZGERALD presented a similar petition also the sumn of I,oool.'ila at
the disposal o
inventi f the Ad-
from a parish in Kerry. miralty, to enable it to ve rewardfor useful o,
Mr. RUNIBOLD presented a similar neeition from War- and also to defray the experiments. These were usually
done, in the county of Wilts. superintended by the Board of Longitude, or the Council
Mr. J. WOOD presented similar petitions from a Uni-
ch of
iethe R
de voloyal Soc
on iety
the t ; but in futuere that charge
namewould
tarian congregation in Hunter-street, Liverpool ; from fly ve gentlmen lie d.
Rochdale ; and from a congrogation of Protestant Dissenters The next subject to which he would advert wag the Navy
in Park-lane Chapel, near Wigan.—Ordered to be printed. Pay-office. In consequence of recent defalcations which
.Mr. H. MAXWELL presented five petitions against had occurred in that office, the serious attention of the
Emancipation from parishes in Cavan.—To be printed. Admiralty had been bestowed on it with the view of
SILK TRADE. placiug it tin such a footing as to prevent the facility of
Mr. FYLER presented a petition from the directors of any defalcations in future : but the Committee were aware
the poor in the parishes of the Holy Trinity and St. that the duties of the office of paymaster of the navy were
Michaele, in Coventry. The Hon. Member observed, regulated by Act of Parlienment, and any alterations which
that there existed great distress amongst the persons en- might be necessary for that purpose must be by legisla-
gaged in that trade in Coventry and several other parts of tive enactment, and a measure for that purpose would
the country. He would not now enter into any statement be submitted to the House in a short time. Sonic rep-
as to the causes of that distress. He rose for the purpose of ietiens would also be introduced with respect to the ei-
seeing, that if some other member did Out move for the up- vil establishmont at Greenwich, which would undergo a
pointraent ef a Committee on this subject, he himself minute inquiry with aerie to d
prevent fraud
buts shisimila must
r to
would undertake the task. th which had been mmitte there; t
The petition was brought up and read ; and it appear- also be done by legislative enactment. It was in con-
ing that it was signed by one individual on behalf of the templation to make sonic change with respect to the
others present at the 3leeting, payment of pensions, which would be transferred to
The SPEAKER informed the Hon. Member that the the cffice of the Treasurer of the Navy. In tie
petition could be received only as that of the individual Navy Pay-office it was proposed to make sonnet reductions.
whose name was signed to it. The forms of the House There were at present in that office, besides the Comptrole
dial not admit of any one individual representing others by lar of the Navy, with a salary of 2,600/. a-year, two sor-
did
petitions on their behalf, except under the seal of veyore, eod five
Co
with 1,000/. cartea-a ch.
a corporate body. It was intend-Ad reduce the number of the wh six.
Ou the question that the petition do lie on the table, ,An alteration was alum proposed with respect to the clerks,
.3lr. ROBINSON (Member for Worcester) said, that with a view to prevent time increase of superannuation al-
great distress existed in the silk trade ; though he was not lowances. To effect this it was intended to Xll up vacan-
prepared to say it arose wholly from the late measures, yet ties as they occurred, front the list of supernumeraries, who
he had no doubt that it was greatly aggravated by them. would be perfectly satisfied with the increased pay, with-
After mature deliberation, his opinion was in favour of a out (as we understood the Hon. Member) being entitled
Committee of Inquiry, and when that measure was brought to superannuations. By this means a gradual and effective
fotward it should have his support.—The petition was reduction of charge would be creeted. The reduction of
ordered to lie on the table. r of the Coninminnuners of the Navy will re-
On the motion of Lord Low'ruxa, there was ordered tube quire the authority of an Act of Parliament to give it
laid hefere the House an account to the sth Jan., 1829, of the effect : for, in consequence of the reduction, it will be ne-
money received and expended in carrying into execution cessary to bring in a Bill similar to that brought in some
the improvements under the Act 7th Geo, IV. c. 77. years ago, when the number of the Lords of the Adrni-
IMPRESSMENT OF SEAMEN. ratty was reduced, to enable the signature of two of the
Sir G. CLERK moved the Order of tee Day for the Commissioners to have the same force which the signature
House tesolvitig itself into a Committee of Supply, fur the of time three of them has at present. Le the Victualling-
purpose of eonsidrring the Navy Estimates. office it is proposed to reduce one Commissioner; it is itn.
Mr. ROBINSON said, that he wished to take this op- possible to carry the reduction further in this Department,
portunity of asking, whether it was the intention of the owing to the misceileneous nature of the duties whielt it
Admiralty to introduce any measure for abelishing the eye- has to perform. It lota to superintend the furnishing, not
tern of the impressment of seamen ? He was aware of the only of all previsions, but also ef all the medical stores
great oelicacy of this subject; but it appeared to him used in tbe Navy. It is, therefire, neeNs try to provide
so repuenant to the principles of our Cunstitution, and fir the occasional absence not only of the medical, but also
so much opposeui to the best feeling" of humanity. of the profeaeional Commissioners, who have is superintend
chit nothing short of the most absolute necessity these distinct apartment-. The Boarl its at present consti.
c.d.: ju,tify its rontitiu ice. As a eummerci,ul imme mord consist- et a Clialeueto Deputy-Chairman, awl five
he enuld tae that it Opervel mint injuriously to Commission-re, and their sala:.-is (4 sue heard Sit
the Male of the kingdom. It had the effect of enornuously George Clerk correctly) had been reduced to 5,001. The
raising the rate of wages to commercial sailors, sail uarti- Committee of Finance had said tat
a further reduction
cdsrly where they were engaged on foreign stations, where might be made imm this department. He admitted that it
the difficulty of procuring men enough to navigate ships was easy to say so, bat iie awl:, remind the Committee, that
on tbeir homeward voyage was so greet, that stuns emir- in unl reductions which relate to emeli important branches
Ineuenr high were paid for "run money," as it was caPed, ii the public service it is requisite to act with caution and
In tine view lie took of this subject be would abolish itns nelibetation, to-t by making an incensiderate redection, a
presetnent altogether ; but if that could no:. e eonvenieutly greater expenditure should ultituateiy be incurred by the
done at once, he would take the power of enforcing it public. He trusted, however, that before the Navy Esti-
from the hinds of subordinate officers. for it was exercised mates were submitted to consideration next year, he should
by offierre of the lowest ranks, and often with a want of be able to make such a reduction in this branch of them as
discretion which was ftauad extremely prejudicial to the would meat the cordial approbation of the Committee. Th 2
Owners of ships and cargoes. if it were to be kept up at charge for wages to artificers and labourers employed in the
all, be would place the power in the hands of some wpm. yards at horse is reduced this year, when compared with
rlor officer, by whose orders, and under whose respensi- the charge of last, by 10,000/. The 'sum votsil for this
bility alone it should be executed. By this means much estimate last year was 490,0001. ; the sum propesed to lie
of the inconvenience which heretofore resulted from: it would voted this year is 410,000/. He had already seated, in
be avoided. He would not urge the subject further at acetiuntine, for the apparent increase in the charge for the
present, but hoped the Hon. Member below him would .oate of men afloat, thet
it was Casioocned by the transfer
give an answer to his quemion. e head of wages of a pert el enditue, which
STr G. CLERK said, in answer to the Hon. Member's was beasee included under the head of Mores. Though there
inquiry, he could state that there was no iutentien on the I is an apparent saving this year under the head of stores, to
part of the Admiralty to recommend the introduction of 1 the amount of 90,0001., it is not to be forgotten that
any measure for the abolition of imnresement altogether. , 60,000/. of it is occasioned by its being transferred to the
\
Regulations had been already made and were in progress, head of wages. The next item is, the charge for pilotage,
which would contribute so much to the eomfort of seamen which it larger than it was last year. Fur the last six
in the navy, that there was little chance of its being re- years the sum voted has regularly been less titan the e;,..
sorted to even in time of war. pease incurred. The vete has generally been for 40,0001,
Mr. HUME, though he concurred with the Hon. but the charge has always exceeded that sum. With the in-
Member opposite (Mr. Robinson), yet thought that the tention of making the vote approxissiete to the actual expen-
enoment of going into the navy estimates was not the pro- diture, it is mew proposed to take 60,0001. ;men this item.
per one for its discussion. The subject was one of such On the remaining parts of the estimates be hail only to re-
great impormuice as to deserve to be considered separately; mark, that there was very little difference from those of last
and if the Hon. Mesnber would fix any day for its intro- year. There ie a small increase in the medical estirnitte
tluction, he would be very happy to support his view of it, arising kern the increased price of provitions. There is,
The Order of the Day was then read, and the rotation for however, a tesienetion in the expense incurred for the
the .Speaker's leaving the Chair having been agreed to, Royal Naval College a,c- Portsmouth. It was proposed last
the House went into the year that the students should he called upon to pay a larger
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY—NAVY ESTIMATES. stun fur their education, in order to meet the expenses of
Sir G. CLERK, in submitting the Navy Estimates for the college ; and in consequence of that proposition, the
the cresent year, could assure the Committee that the sum demanded from each student haul been increased,
Admiralty had devoted its utmost. attention to all the de. Previously to last Session, 70 eons of naval officers were
pertinent,: connected with the Navy, with a view to reduc- educated at the College.
reOfm th
inder ese,
paidart were educated
tion wherever it was practicable. The result was that a gratuitously, whilst the a 70/. . The
very considerable reduation had beet mule in many of the number of student,* is now increased to 80. Of this num:-
civil departments and others were in progress which would b2r, 40 are to be the acoa of officers, and the sum which
enable them to announce a still greater reduction in the they are to pay is to be propertional to the rank which
ensuing year. For himself and hie Hon. Colleagues he their fathers held in the service. 'Jug reniaiiiing 40 are
would my, that they had bestowed the most diligent at- to be tie moms of civilians, and the sum which they are to
tention to every depurtruent in its most minute details; pay is to be increased from 70/. to 1261. We do not i:411
nor would their attention be remitted uutil they should upon such et:se:snots as were in the college before the lat of
have brought each to the lowest scale of red-action con- January of last year go pay this sum : but we calculate
eistent with the maintenance of an efficient naval force, that this next year, whorl a,ll the students will have
sufficient for the exigencies of the country. Notvvitiommd, to pay the sum fixed by the new revelation, the ex-
ing that the force to he kept up this year was the same in pease* of the College will not be greats: than the
numerical amount in several of the civil branches, there sum now mentioned in the Estimates. Whilst upoe
Lad beeu reductions which would diminish the expence this subject, there is one point to which he would
this year upwards of 100,0001. as compared with the last. cell the attention of the Cenunittee. In order to
It would be now hie duty to point out to the Committee afford improvement to naval offieera io the scientific
the nature of some of the reductions, and to eaplein why branches of their profession, the Lords of the Admiralty
others which had been made did not appear on time e,.:4- load come to a determination that the Profaner at the Royal
mates before them. In the fast place, the amount of ;;ayal College should deliver lectures upon them in the
fort.* to be kept up was, as he had already staled, the same naval soli.: o: of architecture, to all such officers as should
this year as the last. The circumstances which required think proper to ateenel them. No additional charge will
a considerable naval force in the east of Europe, e..r4 which be incurred by the pubic boa this improvement. The
lied last year rendered an increase of our naval force see, naval officers who shall think proper to emeil themselves of
e,ssary, , were still the same. In that quarter and other it wit! live at their own expense at Portsmouth dueinn the
stations abroad, it was necessary to the maintenance of the time of the immures, and will not be entitled to expect any
honour of the British fag, and to protect ou; commercial remuneration for it f:.):,YI the public purse. There is little
interests. The force employed for this purpose was as alteration in the second part ()Effie estimates, which relate
low as it could be for such an object, and not greater to the half-pay, and to the superannuation:: granted to
timo that of other powers on similar service. It was neeess officers in the military line of the naval service, and to
sary fur him to explain the apparent increase which had their widows am! relatives. The vote to the widows of
been made la the rate of seamen's wages, which were in the • officers is this year increased, and he was sorry to say was
estimates at 3s. per man per month higher than the last likely to go on increasing. The restrictions which de-
year. It would be in the recollection of those Hon- 3lene- priCred widows of their pensions on their re-marriage had
hers who had sat in the Finance committee, that when been taken off some years ago, in consequence of suggestions
the Comptroller of the Navy was examined before the made and supported by that House—an alteration which
cotumittee, he stated that the amount fur wages was a had led to great increase in this vote, and especially in