The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-27 00:00:00

RAILWAY COMMITTEES

(YESTERDAY.)

Group E.
- (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesti rday.

NEWCASTLE AND DARLINGTON (BR ANDLING JUNC-
TION) RAILWAY.
This Bill for enabling the Newcastle and Darlington Junction
Railway Company to purchase the Brandling Junction. Railway,
and to enable the said Company to make certain branch railways,
stations, and works, and for other purposes, occupied the attention
of the Committee for the remainder of the day.
Mr. TEMPLE addressed the Committee for the purpose of show.
ing the advantages that would accrue to the public if these two
junctions were brought under the control of one board.

Mr. Hudson, Chairman of the Company, and the purchaser of
1,000 shares in both these junctions was examined by Mr.. TEMPLE,
and stated that when it was understood that the Newcastle and
Darlington Company contemplated purchasing the Branding June.
Lion, the shares were 18 or 20 percent., thereby showing the confi.
dence they had in the advantages to be derived.
After a short cross-examination, during which nothing material
was elicited, the Committee adjourned to eleven o'clock to-morrow.

Group B.
RIPON AND HARROGATE LINE.

This Committee (Mr. C. M. Stewart, chairman), resumed this
tn::rning.

Mr. Eatisen of Knaresborough was the first witness examined.
He stated that they were supplied at Knaresborough with coals
from Kippax, Manston, Middleworth, and other places, which, if
the Leeds and Think lines were formed, they could not be con-
veyed by, but nearly the whole district traversed by the Ripon and
Harrogate Junction was in coal districts. The coals were sold
at Leeds at present at about 6s. 10d. a ton, but were now sold at
Knarosborough from 13s. to 15s per ton.
Being cross-examined by Mr. OTEREND, he said the coals used
for burning lime at Knaresborough came from Manston. Silkston
coals were bet:er than Manston.
Re-examined—The coals whicb came by the Leeds and Thirsk
Railway could not compete with the north country coals.
Mr. Howgate was re-examined regarding the population returns,
upon which head this witness was examined at great length on
Friday last.
17pon cross-examination by Mr. OVEREND, witness admitted that
he had not calculated the population in several townships within
five miles of the Leeds and Thirsk linc—Flaxby, Goldsborough,
annethorpe, and other places.
The Cr-wanes said that he could not allow counsel to go
through the same facts over and over again.
Mr. CIVBEBND said his object was to show that the population
within five miles of the line for which he appeared (the Leeds and
Thirsk) had not been accurately computed—in fact, 19,000 of the
Population within this district had been omitted in the returns fur-
nished by the witness.
Mr. ROBINSON said such was not the case—whatthe witness had
taken from one line he gave to another, and examined the witness
n confirmation of this statement.
Mr. John Leather examined—Owned a colliery near Leeds.
The Ripon and Harrogate line would pass near the mouth of
his colliery—within forty yards of it. Coals were now sold at
this colliery for four shillings and sixpence a ton, and would be
sold in Knaresborough for six shillings, in case the Ripon and
Harrogate line were completed. The Leeds and Thirsk line would
uotcarry any of the Yorkshire coal, as now projected.
Cross-examined—Had an interest in the Ripon and Harrogate
line being carried out. His coals were as good as Middleton or
Roth well Haig coal.
Re-examined—Had been concerned in railway contracts. Had
looked over the plans of arches on the Leeds and Thirsk line, and
thought they could not be performed at the price proposed, nor
at loss than 21. 7s. 3d. per cubic yard.
Mr. Pease, who had been formerly M.P. for Durham, stated, that
he was the owner of several collieries at St. Helen's and South
Durham. At his collieries about 2,000 tons were daily risen, and
much more could be raised. Those collieries supplied first-class
housekeepers' coal. Had a general Knowledge of the Yorkshire col-
lieries. If the Ripon and Harrogate Junction line were
completed, he could supply the town of Knaresborough, supposing
,the distance from his colliery to it to be 52 miles, and the dues Id.
per mile per ton, at the rate of 9s. 6d. per ton for the best, and
9s. for the inferior coal. Coals were now selling in Yorkshire at
7s. 6d. and 9s. 4d. In case this line were completed, he would be
enabled to lay down coals at Leeds, assuming the distance to
be 72 miles, at from 10z. Gd. to I Is. per ton.
But if the carriage dues were lessened, which would
probably be the case, he could lay them down at Leeds for 2s. a
ton less. This rate of dues would afford ample remuneration to
the railway proprietors. The people of Thirsk were accustomed
to use the north country coal, and it was impossible to induce
them to use the Yorkshire coals. Had a gradient of lin 33 for a
considerable distance from his own colliery, but it was found to be
a great impediment. If the Ripon and Harrogate Junction were
formed, large quantities of limestone of the very best quality could
lie brought from Weirdale, which would be a great boon to the
4,griculturists.

Cross-examined—Could supply good coals to the town of Leeds
at lls. or 9s. 6d., according to whether the dues were Id. or id,
per mile. There were very good coals to be had in the neighbour-
hood of Leeds, but not so good as the Durham.
To the CHAIRMAN—The rate of dues per ton per mile was greatly
affected by the distance. The highest dues he knew of in his
neighbourhood were a fraction less than 2d., and the lowest a frac-
tion more than a halfpenny.
Mr. C. Bradley, ex-land surveyor, resided at Richmond, in York.

shire. Valued the land on the Harrogate and Ripon Junction, and

surveyed the land between Pumimoor and Collin's Cottage. It com-
prised 136 acres 2 roods 35 perches ; the Ripon branch was 41
acres 3 roods and 4 perches. The expense of constructing the
former line was 23,821/. The Ripon branch would cost 9,671.
Mr. Parker, secretary to the Great North of England Company,
was aware that upwards of 16,0001, had been paid as deposits by the
shaetholders on the Harrogate and Ripon Junction line. Captain
O'Brien, brother of the gentleman at the Board of Trade of that
name, was secretary immediately before him to the Great North of
England Company.

Mr. Joseph Stephenson, engineer to the Great North of England
Railway Company, surveyed the line of railway from Ripon to
Ksiaresborough, and thence to Collin's Cottage, which he selected as
the best point for a terminus. The gradients were better on this
line than on any other, and it had other advantages. Surveyed as
far as Boroughbridge. The proposed line from Pillinore to York
was 16 miles. It was 6 miles south of Thirek. It went on to 80.
roughbridge, and thence it branched to Ripon, which was 5 miles
distant. From Boroughbridge the line went a little to the east of
Knaresborougb, and thence to Collin's Cottage, which was distant
from Harrington a little more than a mile. The whole length of
the line, without the branch to Ripon, was something more than
13 miles ; with it 20i miles, or thereabouts. The proposed line

connects Brafferton, Boroughbridge, Knaresberough, Harrogate,
and Ripon, and these with the Great North of England Railway.
The works were generally light, the cuttings easy, and the gra-
dients excellent, the worst being 1 in 178. Surveyed the line
from Collin's Cottage and Leeds, and seen the country to the west,
and had, after doing so, selected the best line for a railway, but
could have made an improvement upon it. The proposed line
passed through several coal fields.

Mr. Bainee objected to the Counsel upon the other side going
into any statement relative to the line of communication between
Cellin•s Cottages and Leeds, inasmuch as that line had not been
brought under the notice of Parliament. They had no oppor-
tunity of testing the merits of this line. The Commitete, of which
Lord Ashley was Chairman, refused to hear any such evidence.
The CHAIRMAN asked if there were any report to the Board of
Trade in the case to which counsel referred ?
Mr. BAINES replied in the negative.

The CHAIRMAN said there was a report to the Board of Trade in
this case, which made the difference. They would, however, only
take a cursory notice of it, as no plans or sections of it had been
exhibited to the opposing party, and having no substantial data
upon which they could go into geological and other details.
Mr, ROBINSON contended that the report of tha Board of Trade
treated this line as a serious project.

The CHAIRMAN said that this was not the place to contend for the
infallibility of the reports of the Board of Trade. That before him
was puzzling and indefinite in many places. They could not con-
sider the lines now under discussion only in a birds-eye view.
They would not enter into air-drawn projects.
Mr. Stephenson re-examined—Did not think the Leeds and
Thirsk line the best that could be continued, because the ground
was very undulated. The difficulties in the formation
of a Leeds and Thirsk line increased, as it
proceeded westward. Did not think Mr. Grainger's prop- sel
of expense adequate to what must be the outlay. The Leeds and
Thirsk line would twice cross the river Aire, and the expense of
viaducts would be over 7,4001., the other 7,4801., or 831. per
cubic yard. The expense of crossing the river Nid by this line
would be at the rate of lOC. per cubic yard—the whole expense
13,200/. Mr. Grainger's estimate of the same work was 19,24 e/.
The expenses of the masonry on the Leeds and Thirsk line, in-
cluding arches, viaducts, and bridges, would be 221,941/.
The great difference between his estimate and Mr.
Grainger's was as regarded masonry, for in arching he charged
Is. 9d. per cubic foot, and oblique bridges, 25., which was a great
deal more than Mr. Grainger's estimate. The tunnelling on the
Leeds and Thirsk line would cost from 45/. to 401. per yard. A
railway could be made from Pillmore to Collin's Cottage, for
246,51.64, or upwards of 12,000/. per mile. Included in this is
the branch to Ripon; in all more than twenty miles, On his
plan the expense of constructing the whole line from Leeds to
Thirsk, would be 1,155,0601. A line more easterly might be
made at less expense. Did not think the Leeds and Thirsk line a
proper one. Surveyed the country from Knaresborough to Leeds
with care and ininuteness.—(The witness was not permitted to
mention the expense.) _ . _

Cross-examination—Had been principal engineer for three years,
and assistant for six, but had not been bred an engineer. Had
instructions to survey the .Ripon and Knaresborough line in April
1844, and 'rid so. Has not had any experience in tunnel making.
Never made, or assisted in making one. Surveyed the Leeds and
Thirsk line five or six weeks ago. Thought it would take four
years tomake a line from Leeds to Thirsk. A much better line
could be made in three years than the proposed one in
four. The Ripon and Harrogate line would cost
12,0037. per mile, from Collins' cottage to Ripon.
This witness then gave some formal evidence, and added that the
whole cost of completing the proposed line of railway (Ripon and
Harrogate) was 246,5161.
Mr. George Leather, another engineer, was called on the same
side, and he gave confirmatory evidence of the above. He thought
the Thirsk and Leeds line a very bad one.
At the conclusion of this witness's evidence the Committee
adjourned.

Group R.
DUBLIN AND ARMAGH.

The evidence of Mr. Blacker (in continuation from our Afternoon
_Edition of yesterday)—The produce that would be carried along the
would be grain, flax, pork, butter, and eggs, immense quanti.
tiesel.alof which were taken to the ports along the coast, more espe-
Rly. toa and Navan
According to the Belfast Junction, the people of
. Navan would have to go round by Drogheda to get to
Dublin
The feeling at Armagh was decidedly in favour of the
inland line. He had attended several meetings in which this feel-
ing was very strongly expressed.
There were not so many towns
in direct connexion with this line as there were its the coast one,
but there was a larger agricultural population, and he believed it
was intended to connect these towns with this line by miens of
branches.
To Mr. Mearmj He could not tell who were the projectors of
He this project.
came forward at the instance of the
wsobliecitoerranoi d
frateit. He was not there to answer
as to the
of
farttibese
the Company, but as to the line compared with the other. He was not acquainted with the
promoters of the project, but had no doubt, if the line was
favourably entertained by the Committee, there would be, in his
supporters to carry it out. He
opinion, no want of money o
thought the Dublin and Droghedra very good, as connecting the
undertaking.w better
towns on it, but not as a nationalneHe thought
the line from Drogheda to Partad:tan the former
in this respect, but still not what
ought to be. Such a line ought to be
more
line of railway
of opinion the Dublin and Armagh line wasor
decidedlye inland, and he was
such a purpose. This line wou d not be serviceable the best for
Ie to the coast
without branches to Drogheda, Newry, and Dundalk. He thought
it would be of service to have a 'Zinc from Drogheda t
and that the Dublin and Armagh line would not be of? Dundalk,3ervie in
such a purpose, but he supported the latter, because he held it
it
was better adapted for the wants of the whole country.
The CHAIRMAN—WouId not passengers in going from Drogheda
to Dundalk, and from Dundalk to Newry, have to go up from
each place along a branch t..) the main line, then along the main
line, and, lastly, from the main line down a second branch to the
respective terminations; in fact, to have to pass along three
sides of a square. Most undoubtedly they would, but he thought
ten or fifteen minutes extra in passing between these towns of little
consequence, compared with the general interests of the country.
Mr. Paton said he resided in the city of Armagh. He had a
pretty good knowledge of that part of the country. This line,
taking into account general purposes, was to be preferred, as it
would take in the whole interior of the country, and by branches
accommodate the leading ports on the coast. He knew there was
a line proposed to be carried forward to portrush, and the inland