The Sun.
London, England, 1820-08-02 00:00:00

TrAtilPirt DtYl'i.

:\IINLITES of EVIDENCE rolative tothe TIMBER TRADE,
taken before the SELECT COMMITTEE of the HOUSE
of LORDS, appointed to inquire into the Means of extend-
at and eurine- the FOREIGN 'TRADE Lit the COUN-
TRY, and to Report to the-House.

(Continued from ofir Paper of the 24th nit.)
1(J Jana 18'20.

Cn.inuros, Esti-. is then called in;
and examined as follows :
win you state What busi,iess you have been principally en-
gaged in ? he Timber I rate.
In what branch of the Timber Trade ?—All kranches ;
Fir and Oak.

-Have you, in the course of your business, been lately in-
duced to visit Poland and other:parts of 'Enfope have.
Will you state to the Committee any circumstances which
have fallen under your observation in those countries, as
connected with the flasher Trade ?—I saw the general na
Lure of the Trade; any particular questions concerning it,
which it ►nay please the Committee to ask me, I shall he
very happy to answer. I was its the Woods where it.is pro-
cured, and I observed the mode in which it was brought -down
to the Shipping Ports.
State any thing that occurs to yon *as in that part of
Poland, name;y Volhynia, where a great part of the Fir and
OA Timber which is brought to this Country, groWS.
Can von state what vffect the alteration of Duties upon the
Importation of different descriptions of Timber into-this
Country, has had upiin the Countries that you hare, visited?
—The Duties, since I have known the Trade, have gotie,on
so progressively increasing. that I do not know the effect they
have had in that 'aspect.. If it had not been, however, Pte
the Importation of .Timber Nitrlli Aineriea, the whole
would have come now Irons the Baltic, -notivithstanding the
Doty their is upon the Baltic Timber.
State what effect the diminished Importation into this
Country has had upon the Count si--s you have visited ?—lt
has ha.ci this effeLt, that so much Oak and Fir Timber has isot
come down to the Ports for Exportation as heretofore, not
so much by one-halt ; indeed I may say one-third, because in
fact it is not wanted. But when 1 speak of the comparative
difference of 'one-liall.and. one-third, I must go a long way
hack, hecanse the Trade has been very moth diminished there
indeed; at Memel, particularly, there is not one-third of
a hat 113(.11 to conse.

Has that circumstance been the causte'of considerable dis-
tress and impoveriibment to the Landed Pioprietors hi the
costntries yon has'e visited ?-4 should think not. 1 did not
observe it in the Shipping Ports, where it would be iuust ob-
servable. - • .

Have, then, the Timber growers in those countries any
other rent for the Tioiber which is there grown , than the
Ports to which you it rve alluded ?—Very little indeed, scarce-
ly any, only the local consumption. IVtien the Timber is
broliglit to the-Ports, and -the British Lziportation does not
take it off, a consider►ble quantity goes to Holland and Den-
mark, but locally they have very little. demand for it.
When you stated the Export Trade of Timber from the
Baltic to be diminished to one-half or one-third, (lid you
mean to confirm the observation to the Export to this Coun-
try ?-1 did -
Can you state. what proportion a diminution of one-half, in
-the Export Trace to this Country, will make upon the whole
Export of Timber Iron) that Country ?-1 will speak of the
Port-of Memel, front .whence comes the g-rtatest portion of
Frr Timber : mid I think, perhaps now, 400 cargoes may he
shipped in the year, whilst formerly, before the importation
of Anierican Timber into this Country, 800 or 1,000 might
have been shipped. The British Trade forms now a propor-
tion of five-sixths to the whole Trade.

As it appears, from your answers that fire-s►zths of the de-
mands are lost in consequence of these•Dutit;s,. what effect has
the loss of lire-sixths upon the grower :of: Timber in that
Country ?—No doubt be is not enabled to cut as many trees
out of his forest, and the demand not being there, he cuts no
more than he thinhs lie can get rid of.
The %Vitt:cis is directed to withdraw.

S° Jim?, 18201.
HENRY ThritiblE, Esq. is and ex-
amined as follows

What business have you been chiefly engaged in ?—ln the
%%ood Trade.

Have you been particularly enzaged in the Russia Trade ?
Partly in that, but inure particular ly in 'the Canada Trade
frw.o Quelmc.

From shat parts of Russia hare you been in the habit of
importing Timber or other commodities ?—From-Petersburgh
chiefly.
Have you not been concerncd.,in considerable import; tions
from Ar'changel ?—No ; but connexions of mine hate; my
Brother has. .

. Not front Riga hare had Government Contracts, but
these bare been chiefly from St. Petershnrgh.
Can you state to the Committee the condiarative qualities
of Timber which run• have imported .fro.n raussia, and that
which you have imported from Canada-?-14 varies so much,
that it is almost impossible to say.- The Navy Board have, by
Experience, found that the Canada Red Pine is most desira-
ble, and is better than the Baltic for Naval purposes.
"Is the Red Pine buttoned from Canada uniformly the pro-
duce of Canada, or that of the United Status ?—Of both.
Can you state in what prOportionS from each ? —The greater
portion is from Canada. It is. all
~04ported from- Quebec,
though. some is imported front the other ANtnerican Provinces.
What proportion, in your opinion, does the Red Pine im-
ported from Canada bear to the rest of the Timber imported
from that Country ?—For the Navy thegrtatest proportion of
Timber imported is Red Pine. For the private Trade it is
not so extensive, for it is a mitre expensive Wcod, and there.:
tore the quantity imported for the-private Shipping is not so
large. Last year, the Navy used no other Timber the produce
of Canada.

- How long have-you been engaged in the Timber trade?—
Since 180!, in the Canadian Timber Trade.
And in the Russia Trade how I,Mg ?--Not more than five
.years last past; 1 was more particularly concerned for three
out of these five years ; during the last -two• years, I have
hadanuch to do in the Baltic Trade, only occasionally. •
What variation have those two branches of Trade experi-
enced in extent dnring the time you have been acquainted
with them ?—The canadianTrade has increased prodigiously;
from SO ships in 1801 to 800.

To what do you attribute that increase ?—To the protect-
ing Duties.
Have you made any Contracts with Government for the
supply of Red Pine I—Yes, last year and the year before.
To any considerable extent ?—Yes' we delivered more thad
year, and 20 the year before.
of the protecting duties being- taken off, are
you n, opinion that the superior quality which you have
2 Ol can
theri gt cargoes
,e, event
‘ . I.eaistt
ascribed to the Red Pixe, the produce of the North American
Colonies and of the United States, would-insnre.the continu-
ance of an importation of that article ?—That would depend
upon Government ; if they required it, of course it would
come ; but unless the GovCrnment required it, there would be
littlei demand.

Would there not, however, be an advantage to the Go 7
vcrnment, at well as to individuals, in 'importing Thither
that country where it waS of the best quality
should think not, as it is more. particularly fur Naval purposes.
Vo you mean to say, that iu the event of Government or
the Red Pine for the construction of
sinhiii:i:itdl7Yls%‘‘'sOalti.'tligot be induced, after the protecting Duties
were removed, to continue procuring that particular descrip-
tion of Timber from the country which supplies it of the best
quality?-Government might, I should think, but not the
private Merchant ships. :' • - " .
Yen think they wouldirnii.ort.the worst ?—No ; but as it is
Much Cheaper, they would substitute the one for the other.
• Yrill then the comparat iVe difference of quality is not
sufficient to balance the comparative: amount of freight?—
Certainly not. It is better; but that is by nu means a rea-on
for 1
tor importing it under all circumstances.
Is there now much- demand .for. Red Pine, except fur Go-
-verninent purposes ?—Not a great deal.
Can you state what comparative difference of price would
compensate the difference of-quality to which you have alto&
ediretween the Red Pine and the best Timber from the North
of Europe, applicable to the same purposes ?—The. one is
more plentiful than the other, and Red Noe is cheaper than
the Riga Timber; For building purposes, the Itiga Timber
is of equal valne with the Red Pine;. Scut for Naval purposes
the Red Pine is better, as the official documents of Deptford
and Portsmouth will prove.
Can you state what proportion the Red Pine imported by
private Merchants bears to the whole impottation from Ca-
nada ?---Very small indeed.
Then most of the Timber from otrr North American Colo-
nies, with that small-exception, imported by Merchants, is of
inferior quality to that imported from the Baltic ?—lt is not
of inferior quality for in-door purposes ; but for any purpose
that requires exposure to the weather, it is.
For what purposes do you reckon it not inferior to the Bal-
tic ?—lt is net inferior for all inside
,pt rpme.t ; for all pur-
poses Where, it is protected from the Weather, it is equally
good. lam now speaking, of the Yellow Pine. •
You have stated that there is but a small quantity of red
pine in the Noah American Colonies 1-4 is a much smaller

I

. .
. . ,„
hfe, therefoie iess onantitY n' 'tilt to
Cainada, however, is but hide' and it Is diffic
say how much of that Timber there is in the Country.
Hate you resided at Quebec 2—Yes., 'lnahß
'Can you state Whether thiS Traaeli-riinSidered ailbe
to the Land: Proprietors of the Atuericatt Colonies ? the
Wood Trade it of the utmost cOtisequenee
farmers hare uo other employment for.themielteS, or Or
and oxen, than in hauling it down, and 'preparin-g.it. .e be'
What are the aVerage charges to which Tithbet tot
fore it is. put ship-board ?—lt is impossible to answe bete
question.; it depends upon how far it is ft om-the spot "
it is received; and the longer the transit; the cheaper
WlllAt it grows d
If ;lon load ship df 100 tons; tit what rate per ten - °
consider the charge, including the. value of the Timber,
fuoot
the cost of it; with, the carriage?—The red pine is Is. 3
o average; the YellOw pine is Gcl.
Does the price of the limber at Quebec increase in c 0 psi
Winter,
.15.ei
qnence of the-itierraskl dlatance from which
Yes, according to the distance and the deinand:
What is the greatest distance of hauling that has come 00.
in your observation?-1t elepends.up.on the quality of 05,
her ; I have known very large itia?,tslnniled•ls or ,20
What was the value or cost of that 1/111 tb6
Timber per f"t a- •
Place. of cutting ?—lt depends Upon thequality
Timber for Masts ?—A very large Mast is so mod' tu
valuable than a small one. At that
State the cost for a small one and a large one ""=":,., not
distance a small one is Borth nothing; a very large our
be worth two-or three pounds. .' •
What proportion dO the large ones bear to the stuall.
large ones are very scarce. ire'
You have mentioned that the red pine was partly Ibc
duce of the American States, and 'partly of our own gr(3.w, '
~,9
AIM you have stated that.the produce of the American f
is in a greater propoition the two; that there is me; ru.ci
pine sent here of the produce of the Ameriean States
our own but that is a Letter settled Country, and til`
are more horses. • Its
And yOu say that hoth sorts, whether of the produce
Colonies or of the United States, have been expor"„,,t
Quebec ?—The e 4 torts have always been from Quebec,
by far the greater pot tiun has been from our own Colon.
as five tot ne, of the yellow pine. hot
The question entirely relates to the red pine ; Yon "
stated, that all t hexed pine which you .have bail, has been,eid,
ported from Quebec, a part of it .the growth of our owo rc„,.;
nies, but the greater part the- grosctb of the United Stai.i.e,
have you not said that all the tell pine imported from .-‘1"i;
rica has been exported from Quebec ?--:fhe greater V.s.'4 .1. es
some has been exported froth lower parts; frow
than.ri

Brunswick and Nova Scotia.
Do von know what Duties that Timber is subject to atop
arrival here ?—Red pine, whet her. the produce of O"' Lit 311
Colonies or of the United States, is subject to no duty," tio
comes to Quebec, nod is exported in Uritish Ships; an"
greatek expellee is in Canada, where it is paid tor. „ct.'
Then, as far as red pine Timber is concerned,,these pr"'-r
ing Duties operate. etinally:asran encouragement to the
of the Growth of the United States as they do to our ow'l
Decidedly not.
rid
Explain, why not ?—ft is expprteii from Quebec, 3,,j0g
great expence is incurred in Canada in rafting
.and
it down ; I should add, that the people who collie down
it on-the rafts expend a great part of the monev iii Queb`,,.ef
British Manufactures ; the tree growing in the United St o've
is of trifling value there; but it increases in value a, it
Bit'sroaces the port of Quebec. • ceie
ir far as the place which produces .the article is fie
cerned, is not this protectinz Ditty a protecting Doty
sour of the United States produce against the produce ofi,ic
States of the Baltic ?—lt has the benefit of the pinta'
Duties.
You have mentioned that the American Timber Tr3of
been promoted, and indeed almost made, .by the protect 4
Duties, arid that by them also the American British Ships
Trade has greatly increased ?—Yes. .
Uas not the Shipping concerned in the Baltic 1-
decreased in an equal, or in what proportion .?-I.lic-0,0,0'
to America being Si nitwit. Longer, it -requires a greater 1 ~!,,„
ber of Ships, therefore it is more valuable Wale British ='`•
ping Interest._

On account of the length of the voyage
Then it would be a consjderably greater itleantagt.' “,
Shipping Interest if we could find out any place from vo'tohl
they could import Timber twice as far as Awerica?-1 o'
say decidedly not. n
Explain the sort of distance that would operate ai
duce rent, and the sort of-distance that would be a pre".;,
Clop ?—The Duty now is sufficient for the length of
If you increase tln, voyage, you must increase the:n.l6o ,
ficiently to protect it. I,itO
Do you not think that the American Trade, being 5° "'d
to no Duly at pre;ent, is snfliciently strong to bear
without living injured by it?—Certainly not, finless an 0:114
ly inert:lst d Duty was placed on other Timber, the Pr('
of other Countries. o'o
Then you 'conceive that the present state of Duty-h, 4•, dt!
the American and the Baltic Ports is precisely ttit
which the Trade will go on, and that alty iiiteration
of the duty will put an cod to the Aftierkall Muiuj•• UL
altogether should say not. The more ditty there P'o,ol
upon the Baltic Produce, the more 'Ttaile Intl there tee
our own Colonies: The higher the sate of duty on the
peon wood, the mole our own Colonial Wood Trade

incßut you have stated that our Wood Trade with An'Rl
as com Baltic,
pared with that of the is in a very d•ou" 40,
state ?—Certainly nut; it is. rely bad during the susPe°-
.-.
and whilst the question of duty is agitated. .
~ IP
Any Duty would lessen the
.15(it'ish AmericanTr'welio‘
your op'ision ?—lt depends upon the quantity of 1-101);,-,.ei'
touch the Trade would be improved or depressed., 11„.,4`",, 1
any Duty, it would lessen the Trade : if a heavy ''',;,'llo"
would quite destroy it ; if there was. a Duty equal .
on the Baltic Timber, it would destroy it. ,;„ o°6'
What is the value of an acre of ;and in Canada ?"
How many loads of Timber thay be cut off from an nerLitist
It depends upOn the-quality, and what sort of WOod Ladd -
You have lived at Quebec, yort have said ?--1 es. .roi'l
Have you any idea of the quantity. °Crinklier thatt. .
upon an acre in Canada ?—I cannot answer that qiuc'riu,l it/
If you conceive 10s. to be the value of Wood ,"":leottc
. Canada, huw can. you make out what you-eta eel in 'ld: is '
great
of your eridenCe, that the Tinsher—rr" ?`„,...13e:
great importance to the Landed Interest. of Canada 'wilite''
cause the Farmers have no employme-nt doting the„ is th 6
whatever, hut in preparing and hauling Timber..l-`
labour uputt it that makes it valuable. 'rig
Do you find the Tiiolker growing near the rivers hegi°,,a,loef
• to grow scarce.?-71)nly its the most.settled parts of I,l,:kts?
Icy. . All the edges of this risers on the more settles" 1
7."
theW country. '
hat is- the, present market price of the Red Pine ber',
.
51. 10s. - • •• OW 7./
What is the- market price of the best Memel 101
six pounds. . f Wro ova
oh
When you talked of 10s.. as_the value of an acre ° )j oci,
do.. you .mean by that the valise of an.arre of ".°t h"tj
Quebec, or . at a great distance from' 'Quebec ?"*"... s 0 itcor
places, but Moreparticularly at a distance. 'There 's •;',:ll°
Pine 'tear Quebec. The principal Trade is in il'c is
i
Pine Timber, -which grows all over the country. , ~, it A
What is the value of an acre of Yellow Pine w","oLighti.,
growing ?—At very distant part of the country 1, '0 l'el,
square piece of 45,1)00 Acres, for 3001:; but there 15.,5 joo
low Pine upon it : it is opposite Anti COsta, and it ocLottotri'
the river far from any of the settled parts of the
of 71
many undred miles. te
According to ywir arcount, you got it at the r`lbioiog.',,
acres for a shilling ?-1 think more than that for a s A4O(
What is the produce of it ?—Timber of all inferior '
is
tions ; Beech, Birch, and Wiser Timbers. 7.---It..f
: oe • s.'
' Is that- tract . of' Conntry near any water carria giver
the Seigniury-.6f Maddullieue, the borders of the 1
40
Lawrence: . . •'t l'eces-
. If Deals remain piled up in a yard,
1151
to remove them from the Stacks ?—Scakeety ever-
.., cm
. May,they remain in that state a year withourhe"
1„0
ti"
ed ?—Yes: , ~,ore
Is the lied Pine liable to the dry-rot ?—/sot '''
i.er,
other Timber's. rlThau:lll
Is the Yellow Pine 'liable ?—Not more than other ~;....
Not more t bail the Baltic Timber, if the air be eXceLu_Rijea
Timbers will have the dry•rot when the air is 2‘l"
The Witness is directed to 'withdraw. ' ,-,
bow soon is i
(1•u be continued.)
Al .41.1...••••••10.ff •••*0•*5,.......................,......—... ------------------------- V
---.---- --- 0
e '
MAItItIF.D. I'► NIC.•"1113°
- Yesterday, at St. Mary Magdalen, Bermondse, 7_, %% 1
flows, of the City-road, to Ann, eldest dangliitteso..
Merewether, Esq. Speenhamland, Newbury', 13 'l'
. ,
• DIED.: .
of gar'
On the 19th ult.., Thomas htbersole, E5(1.,-ban,.er' Op
ket-Harboruugh, in theat _7oth year of his age. .s„intr
jc)lii'le)stititdinieys,-uEist:ilo.ittign.lis= house in Lineein -
---., t
2 . ... . ”- •
,oe"
. ,
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