The Sun.
London, England, 1827-06-13 00:00:00

PEOPLE OF COLOUR.

Dr. LUSHINGTON, in riling to make his Motion
respecting the People of Colour in the West Indies, ob-
served, that there were few Members of that House, except
those who had local connexions with the West Indies, who
had any idea of the number, wealth, and importance of the
description of individuals whose Petition he was about to
present, and whose cause he meant to advocete. The
House had probably very little idea of the relative numbers
of the different classes of the population in our West India
Islands—in Jamaica for instance. In the statement he
was about to make, he could assure the-House, that if any
inaccuracy existed, it was in favour of the side to which
he was opposed, and not in favour of that which he was
desirous of supporting. In Jamaica, by far the most im-
portant of our Colonies, the population was estimated to
be as follows :
Whites
Free People of Cclour 30,000
Free Blacks lO,OOO
Blacks 34Q000
Such were the relative numbers as estimated in 1826.
Every hour increased the number of the brown, and de-
creased the white population; and that for the plainest
!possible reasons. In the first place, the climate was hos-
tile to whites, who, being born in Europe, transferred
themselves to the West Indies. So hostile, indeed, that if
the details of the mortality which prevailed among the new
corners could be displayed to the House, they would regard
them with horror. In the second place the whites who
went to the West India Islands were principally males, few
females resorting thither for the purpose of taking up their
residence. These two causeswere perpetually operating to
diminish the white part of the population. The brown
!part of the population, on the contrary, was increasing with
!great rapidity. It had been declared by Bryan Edwards,
land by every other author who had treated of the West In-
dies, that of all the races by which those islands were in-
habited, there were none so healthy, so free from tendency
!to disease, and so long lived, as the mixed part of thepopu-
ilation. They were allowed, on all hands, to be peculiarly
:strong and hardy. But if it was true, as he was persuaded
lit was, that the brown population, as compared with the
;blacks and the whites, was rapidly increasing, it was a cir-
cumstance of no small importance, and one which, in the
course of time, and that at no very distant period, would
imperatively demand the attention of Parliament. For let
'not the House suppose that this class of the West India
population was low, degraded, or destitute. In Jamaica
the brown population was supposed to be worth at least
three millions sterling. He had been told by some, that
they were worth five millions ; but he took three millions
as the most moderate calculation. To show how wealth
accumulated among them, he would mention a few in-
stances of sums that had been bequeathed in several cases.
A Dr. Dickenson had left 120,000/. ; a Mr. Swaney,
150,0001. ; a Mr. Kingall 200,000/. ; a Mr. Benjamin
• Scott 250,000/. In St. James's Parish, Jamaica, alone,
three individuals who had signed the petition in his hand
! were said to be worth together above 120,0001. Not only
were the people of colour wealthy, but they possessed ex-
tensive landed property. With the exception of one estate
(belonging to the Hon. Member for Surrey), all the pi-
mento plantations were in their hands. They also had a
great number of the coffee plantations. Many of the houses
in Kingston and the other towns in Jamaica belonged to
them. Such was the condition, such the respectability, of
a race who had nevertheless been for a loug period deprived
of those rights originally conferred upon them by charter.
It was declared by all the original charters granted to the
West India Islands, "'1 hat all children of whites born on
the island should be from their birtl, free denizens of
England ; holding the same privileges as free-born citizens
of England." Such was the practice for a considerable
time. At last a practice grew up by which the pri-
vilege of British subjects was taken away from the
offspring of white men by brown or black women.
In progress of time, the Acts of the Colonial As-
semblies to this effect received the sanction of the mother
country. Strange to say, in the year 1711 a statute was
passed disabling the individuals in question from holding
public situations. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman here
read the opinion given at that period on the subject by
Lord Chancellor West ; who, while he allowed that slaves
might be treated as ti,eir owners thought proper to treat
them, denied that it could be just to exclude free persons
of colour from the privileges of the other free inhabitants
of the Colonies. No man could bequeath to a child of co •
lour more than 1,400/. These laws were contrary to all
principles of justice, and an outrage on every natural feel-
ing. It was found in practice impossible to continue them
amongst any society of human beings, whatever might be
their principles or their feelings. Immediately after this,
he found an Act, passed in 1762, to enable one W. F. Brown
to bequeath his property to his children. In 1784, an Act
was passed to permit a woman of colour to leave her pro-
perty to her child. He should now allude to the law which
required that a certain number of white persons should be
kept upon every estate, and which imposed a penalty when
the estate was the property of the free men of colour.
The Government at home rejected this Act, as it amounted
to a very severe tax upon absentees. But this objection
was attempted to be overcome or avoided, by passing similar
Acts repeatedly; and it was only six months ago that the
Governor of Jamaica, the Duke of Manchester, was obliged
to withhold his assent from such a Pill, upon the ground
of its operating as a tax upon persons residing out of the
Colony. IR 1786, immediately after the termination of
the Maroon war, the free men of colour were allowed to
bear testimony against whites in cases of assaults. They
were not allowed to produce collateral testimony, and they
were to be transported, if guilty of perjury. Lord Bal-
carras, the then Governor, was an eye witness to a case of
the most atrocious assau't upon a person of colour by a
white inhabitant, but he found himself unable to convict the
culprit, or to punish the outrage. It was afterwards, in re-
ward for the important services rendered by the people of
colour in the Maroon war, that the privilege was conferred
upon them of giving evidence against the whites in cases
of assault. In 1813 a great alteration took place in the
state of the black and coloured population. Their condi-
tion was materially improved by certain concessions made
to them by the House of Assembly, though he regretted to
say that the boon bad not been granted with the liberality
he could have wished. The House of Assembly passed an
Act, by which they gave certain privileges to free per-
sons of colour, upon their taking out what were called
privilege papers. In 1816 an Act passed to enable free
people of colour to navigate their own vessels, and to drive
their own carts and hackney coaches. From this Act a
pretty good opinion might be formed of their previous con-
dition. Bryan Edwards, alluding to their sufferings, had
said, " The mischief of the rigour of the law is, that it
tends to degrade them in their own eyes and in the eyes of
the community; it is carried so far as to make them
wretched in themselves, and useless to others." In 1823 a
petition was presented to the House of Assembly, signed by
all the principal people of colour in the island. It com-
plained that they were not allowed to participate in any
of the advantages of Government. In 1826 there were
unequivocal signs that there had been a great progress in
public opinion both in the House of Assembly amongst the
persons of colour, and even amongst the slaves themselves.
The inhabitants of the two parishes of St. James and St.
Elizabeth, petitioned the House of Assembly in favour of
concessions to the people of colour. It was impossible
for any petitions to have contained more sound principles,
or to have expressed them in better language. But the
House of Assembly rejected the petitions. They rejected
every measure proposed, but they turned round and con-
ferred the whole of the privileges prayed for in those peti-
tions upon the Jews. Yet the Jews had never petitioned
upon the subject. He meant no offence to the Jews ; he
was far from entertaining the unjust, absurd, and mischie-
vous prejudices which existed against them. He could not,
however, refrain from regretting that the House of Assem-
bly should have extended to them those privileges which
they had refused to the free men of colour, who were
christians, and who, even in point of complexion, could
scarcely be distinguished from the Whites themselves. Some
of the free people had, however, been selected, and had
conferred upon them all the privileges of British subjects.
Facilities were given to individuals to obtain these privi-
leges by Private Bills, the fees upon passing which through
the House were dispensed with. But many persons were
above suing for these privileges, upon such terms. What
would be thought of the Government of England, if they
attempted to introduce a practice of bringing in Bills, one
by one, to emancipate the Catholics ? (Hear, hear.) The
free men of colour were still excluded fron; sitting upon
juries, from holding public offices, and from any exercise
of the elective franchise. It was the same in almost all
the West India Islands. There were certain public schools
in theisland of Jamaica, which were supported by taxes
levied equally on blacks, whites, and persons of every
shade of colour. - With the exception of the Parisliof St.

James; pereons of eolour were excluded from all such,
schools. Even in St. James, the system wee: most unjust
h
He found that in that parish there were '7O free persons f),f,,
Colour edacated, at an average charge of five pounds of eae
net
whilst six white persons were educated at the ext were
less than one thousand pounds. Free persons of c; Ileur e
prevented from serving upon juries, and the corners ce ;},,
an impossibility for any person of that descriptica trial,ie
taro justice against a white. He would allude to aie ,sr
which two persons, named James Mitchell and 1716-eis
Mitchell, bore a most conspicuous part. The broths
rat
the present Attorney-General (Sir James Scarlett) was, ,
the time, the person before whom the cause was tried-a:2
He charged the Jury in strong language, but they refit'
'to obey. The Learned Judge had said that the evidence
of Hector Mitchell ought not to have been received; B°6
the House would not differ from this opinion when the/
were told that the witness, at the outset, had poeitivelf
refused to give his testimony at all, if he were not allovect
to give it in his own way, and just as he thought pro Per:.
This was acceded to him, and he accordingly did give b,191'
evidence in a way peculiar to himself, and contrary to a"
the principles of testimony acknowledged in our jurispr,
dence. He ran on in a confusion of hearsay evidence! $ll
although contradicted by six other witnesses, +he 3111
notwithstanding this, and notwithstanding the opinion °
the Judge, gave their verdict against the man of colour,
and in favour of the person of their own complexion.
strong was the case, that the Judge, without being aPP'LI •
to, immediately declared that he would grant a new V,' '
if the aggrieved party desired it. But the anfcrtunatePla'!s
tiff replied, "`What trill it avail me to have an irnPaletee'
Judge, or excellent Counsel? the Jury will stilt be sv°"'"
men, and I have no chance of success." The want of a sob'
cient number of %dike men to form Juries often occasion
a most strange, if not ridiculous practice. It frequently hap'
i
pened that they could not procure a sufficient number ; •
white men to form a Coroner's Inquest. In such cases
was the practice at Kingston to send to the barracks,
procstre soldiers or to the ships to get sailors to convert in
g 9
Jurymen. He had taken care to be correct in what he
*sated, and his views were not the result of one single in i‘
stance, but of cases taken indifferently from time to tuna'':
Free people of colour were compelled by law to serve in the
Militia of Jamaica, but they could not rise higher than tiles!
rank of sergeant. Thus a free man of colour, possessed 0: ri
100,0001. might be commanded by his clerk. It Inigh
be supposed that the natural effect of such a system of treat'
mcnt would be to oblige the people of colour to throw the
selves largely upon the public funds for support. $o teo,
from this being the case, it was principally the whites
were obliged to resort to public charity. In Kingston, to
proportion was as ten to one. The number of browns "..,e
greater than the blacks, and yet they had to contend If:13
all these restrictions. The proportionate allowances to kadifferent classes were most unjust. Thus, to destitute bl3ctre
wax allowed 55., to browns 6s. Sd., and to pauper iv'''eo
from ten to twenty shillings. It might be supposed tee
the system would have the effect of demoralizing the ibi
brown population ; hut he found the offences committeu
the white population to exceed those charged against Pelf
sons of colour. In the course of the last forty years,
four brown persons had been executed, whilst of the ill`je,
population the instances were trusre frequent. After
Maroon war, the House of Assembly passed a vote of the
to the free people of colour, for their
,services duringl
dangerous conflict. In no instance had they - ever been chlie
with disloyalty, although the treatment they- had met de
might have misled their passions, and they had 2n their 11-!litte
a tremendous. power. The Militia of the isiao
of not less than .ten thousand men, of which a;:out
eel'
thousand were persons of colour. There were so
done more that . two thousand regular troops up* ti',
island. He trusted that the House would undertake tee
measures as were likely to remedy the mischief. le
scandalous effect of the present system was, to induce t
daughters of persons of colour to live in a state of prt
tuition to the whites. The policy of Jamaica was to 0;,,
courage marriage in any shape, and prostitution was lot
core:neon than could be conceived. If a brown roaoe'et,
an illegitimate child by a white woman, it might .it! ate
the parent's property ; but if he married her, his legit'lo,.lo
child would be disfranchised. This was practically
a premium upon concubinage, and a penalty upon
riage. The absurdity of the laws could not adroit 1
doubt. The children of slaves might be slaves in virtu • °
re
the laws of property, but the children of brown person' rhe,
deprived of their privilegee, for no other reason hett",ges
cause their complexion happened not to be white. "'tbag
the duty of the Government to remedy some of these lioy
conveniences. He, however, would rather not rePre" e,
particular measure, for he thought it desirable that te',
House of Assembly should have another opportunity of dre;
cussing the subject. So much did he consider the ridieWt;
the injustice, the oppression under which these uneortOP.
people were labouring ; so urgent was the necessity for ,
lief, so replete with danger was the continuance of the 11;
tern, that he should consider it his bounden duty, in fe,„a"-;1
Session of Parliament, if his hope of something effereee
being accomplished were not realized, to renew the subs eat
and to endeavour to bring the House to some agree:l3oe
upon the measures of remedy proper to be pursue,. smiy
had another petition to present from a person sor-se
distinguishable from himself in point of conaplexion•
comprehensive and uncompromising were these law/. y .
the restrictions extended to persons of colour of every f.jd
time. They were not confined to the blacks or regree°lo,
Africa, hut they extended to the people of colour of 13' Ile
rice, anu even to every variety of the Indian race• of
could not help availing himself of the present moroe°lool
an opportunity to allude to the late deportation of Per
of colour from Jamaica. He had investigated the 02" for
and he entertained not the shadow of a doubt as to thoe I
ture of that transaction. He was willing at the Pir'itir
moment to postpone this case, as he was aware, that sine,
changes incidental to the illness of the Earl of Live
it had been impossible for Ministers to have made thvie;
selves perfect masters of the subject. It was necegog
the character of public justice that the House shoul":011
this case, protect the injured. He should bring {nest
the subject in the ensuing Session of Parliament, the
some practical measure was introduced likely to obt4'
object he had in view. etev
The petition was brought up and read. Upon the q
tion that it be printed,
Mr. PALLMER said lie should like to know if the jets
Member wished to urge that there should be an unretrat
ed freedom of the Negro population in the West Jo-610
the present moment? The Hon. Member, after goer
through a lengthened detail, expressed a hope that this gorete
tion would, upon another occasion, receinethe count°
and support of Go-- srnment. Abiab
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that from the manner in eoefs
Hon. Members thought proper to bring forward que
it was impossible to do justice to the parties, or plart
questi -n fairly before the House. In the first place Itbeig
alleged that the Courts of Law were open, and that tbet
who wished might enter thee. To this he answereatz.4
they might be entered by those who were sure of obis
woos
suits of them, but by none else, unless they had the ti? ed
of paying a heavy expence. An Hon. Member had, lljoe
early stage of the discussion, talked of a Jury of lnee
people, by whom he would consent to be tried. Ile led
lieved that the Hon. Member would not wish to be
cor
by a Jury of Irish or of Scotch, under similar Giro elr
stations. The Hon. and Learned Member went on ,t
sHereved,idthantotit
careSvae I,ovlblyetthoertaltkheofbalapckusrezlzitt;setri4%oo3o,
included in the calculations made by some HO' 000 er
leers ; the question, in his view, was, whether SOf erito'
40,000 persons, who had been described to be filleetir
rious individuals, were receiving and deserving oft the°
tenance and support? Was it to be expected 'Thin
30,000 men of colour, some of whom had igent
ss°
ney enough to entitle them to enter the outer
an attorney's office, should be able to sustain the d eere,..;
of naturalization, by going through all the fortusand
monies of West India Legislature? It was °DIY -rdeft,'•'
Ipoerlga eilnoo;Bl:smitpt ilandne,g andon
a wheno Jury.
utl
only
ye
practicabley. h foundaFdorh is therpeamr t
e,
dmyb eefe
p:tb thani 'os:diowl '1:41 a.:
hag this charge, they were to be entitled to the;l:ped"` .
mous and crying evil, and it was nothing less ego deg° to
lately inconsistent and absurd to expect that t" sive cotsio
persons should go through the long and egiellecied, °°„bet
pointed out. No man alive, he was Pelt Goa ;ea
drive that body to such a course; he hoped 7;os o_,l;oic
they would never be satisfied with it, and he '3..0 cP:re.
be disappointed, if he ever heard that 30,000Z;ejor
ere-
themselves free, had deigned even to look atere wsi tod
commended by the Honourable Memberva.
,hebetl`wras
fore rejoiced to listen to the promised
always be happy when it was brought foreoti
ver:di, end pmtha
raised the Hon. Member success if he pereevero
he would persevere need not be doubted byk.s itho res ui nlijo
was acquainted with him; a triumph must "; doe., :4,64
patient and unceasing exertions in so good 00. C4—e,e
felt somewhat grieved at hearing that hieeeard the ea.:,
(Dr. Lushington) was not able to bring fornon; ,17;e
of the Duke of Manchester in the present Ses3'. ant 0,!1,,,
had laboured more zealously or anxiouslyaelled :he Oa,
than his Hon. Friend bad done upon thatir.tr,voolbrlt
Brougham) would state what his Hon.}... iicfs, ehatete
would not perthit him to mention, that with ,
of the evidence, with comment', tra'reeeepe via;
Iskill of a lawyer and the profouied !"I'..iatouOttl
of a Statesman and a PhilantkrOPlStiiiiior
lto no lees than between three hundred And *se.
printed pages. His industry and dill acs
..1,17146.eid'0r
been almost incredible. He(Mr. Broughatn) tot

satisfaction from the postponement of the case, as he trusted
that it would not be necessary to bring it forward, and
that it would be rendered unnecessary by the wise and
speedy measures of that Government whose principles and
general conduct he united with his Hon. Friend in admir-
jog) and in whose intentions he again begged leave to ex-
press his unabated confidence.—(Hear, hear.)—Before he
eat down, he could not held congratulating the House, the
nuutrY, and all countries—for it related, in truth, to all
countries_ upon the conduct of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, when Minister for Foreign Affairs, and upon the
enneessimrs he had obtained from all the independent
Powers in the world. The people of Great Britain had
now the satisfaction of knoll ing, that by the successful ef-
forts of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Slave Trade no
longer exists any where by law; at least, all foreign na-
tions had fixed a limit for its duration, and the latest was
in January, 1830, or only about three years from the mo-
ment at which he was expressing his heartfelt congratula-
Li'ns•--(Hear, hear.)--Fo: this consummation the Right
'ion. Gentleman deserved ?raise above all the praise it was
in his (Mr. Brougham's) power to bestow ; arid, as far as
laws and legislation eould effect the object, we had lived to
witness the period when what Mr. Pitt had truly and
emphatically termed " .Ire grettest practical evil that ever
afflicted mankind" was no longer tolerated by any civilized
nation on the face of ~he globe.—(Cheers.)—lf the same
good faith which b Id led to the adoption of these laws
were observed in cr. rying them into execution, thi- ac-
cursed traffic, the African Slave Trade, would not only not
be tolerated by law, but it would be actuelly and practically
exterminated.— (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WILYOT HORTON expressed his satisfaction at
the general tone in which the debate had been conducted.
Ile could rot admit that the Colonial Assemblies, that of
aanlaica 'or instance, had shown no symptoms of a desire
to promote the interests of the slaves ; but he nevertheless
wished the House to impress and stamp its opinion, that it
Was the true interest of the whites of the West Indies to
remit the existing disabilities. In his view it was far wiser
to wait until gradual improvement in education and pro-
perty among the negroes had produced its influence on the
Colonial Legislatures, than to call upon those bodies per-
emptorily to change their system at once. 'What chance
was there, lie would as"s:. that laws would be carried into
effect which were not voluntarily adopted, but violently
forced upon tire Colonial Assemblies ? In this country we
might lament the existence of prejudice and the general
weakness of human nature in the West Indies, but im-
provement could only be effected by a progressive change
of opinion. The Right Hon. Gentleman then briefly men-
tioned the course taken by Ministers with respect particu-
larly to the free coloured people of the West Indies, in
order to show that conciliation was much more effectual
than positive command. He contended, that it was most
uufair to separate from the consideration of this subject
thea,ndifference between the state of feeling in Great Bri-
t and in the Colonies ; the feeling in Great Britain was
trlthul/ laudable, and through the Legislature at home it
menace,rdue a much better effect than exasperation and
As to the expeuces of naturalization, they bad
Znh•PrPuselY much reduced, so that freedom was placed
Min the reach of the coloured people.
f 11 r' W. SMITH complained that much of what had
an a !ra from the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, was
indirect censure of the policy pursued by Government r the i_
epa; ",st three or four years. With regard to the Prot
Wind in Jamaica on behalf of the men of colour, it
•o-- Well if the Right Hon. Gentleman would turn
liia'smattentiort to what had passed in the last Session of Par-
w. enti and to the speech which the Hon. Member for
(Alr. Brougham) had been reduced to the ne-
r?,,t Y of then making. The Hon. Member for Surrey
to Circ Pallrner) had complained of the injustice of referring
Ile lances l'an which had occurred half a century ago.
4„,,"1r• Smith) entirely agreed with him, provided the
~f,"‘tho
.1761 had been repealed or materially amended in any
tha e Islands ; but the fact was, that, till very recently,
nezrt '
Aet had scarcely been at all altered for the benefit of the
„el; -ea. It continued without change, until it was coin-
CI" by the impulse derived from this country, and not
y internal impulse in the Colonies themselves. It was
wisedb by the Hon. Member for Surrey, and by the Right
all'en- Gentleman (Mr. W. Horton) that time ought to be
,ra'ed ; but, had they both forgotten that it was now
:out forty years—he spoke from memory—since this
?,"eation had been agitated before the British Legislature ?
•ue admitted that some amelioration of the condition of men
of colour had recently occurred, and he hoped that it would
proceed; but if it went on no faster than it had hitherto
done, he feared that the present, and even the next gene-
ration, would pass away, before the object was effected.
The Hon. Gentleman concluded by reading an extract of a
letter from a British dicer in one of the Colonies, giving
a familiar account of a marriage between a roan of colour
and a white woman, whom he was said to have "bought,"
and adding that the circumstance had given great disgust,
as the first of the kind.
Mr. CANNING—As no question had been raised to ex-
cite even a difference of opinion, this debate might have
closed with the remarks in reply of the Hon. and Learned
Mover (Dr. Lushington,) who had so fairly and temperately
introduced the subject of discussion. In justice to the
Hon. Member for Surrey, it was necessary to say, that his
speech had not left the impression upon his mind which it
"mad to have made upon that of the Hon. Member for
Winchelsea.—(Hear, hear.)---He did not understand that
Hon. Member as defending, but as lamenting the system
--not as contending th.t it ought to be permanent, but re-
gretting the slow progress of improvement. He confessed
de rather augured from the Hon. Member's language, a fair
fposition to meet this part of the subject with a desire, as
ax as human means could accomplish it, to get rid of all
Paasible difficulties.—(Hear.)—But the speech of the Hon.
Member for Norwich (Mr. W. Smith), and particularly the
if,aatwitli which he had concluded, proved still more strongly
ifew much ought to be left to time and circumstances.—
'ennd"lee an adverse disposition were created, it might be
•
Thopoesible to accomplish the object. The H. o. n.
"nber for Nerwich had quoted a familiar letter, giving
ar,n„aecount of the union, or rather of what the French
701`.._ed a mesalliance betiVe m a man of colour and a white
whr,ani which was termed buying a white woman, and
had diffused general disgust as a monstrous atrocity'.
it
,wa fact established the enormous difficulty of the subject ;
,• aa inherent in the nature of the thing, and no proceed-
of the Legislature could precipitate its removal. The
40-Zetatel._far acceleraticn. adopted, before the Senate of
of Ve.,-"Ialo, the reasoning of Shylock before the Senate
..lee
You have among you many. a purchas'd slave,
eh
Yo like your asses and y our dogs and mules,
ti__ll use in abject and in slavish parts,
you bought them. Shall I say to you,
It peaset be free—marry them to your heirs?"
Yom hei rs ; wY to say, let them be free—marry them to
"
possible. rgh t 1
ti
I o_ng b the th. g was now impossible, and t
;fore thenatime arrived when it should be
na,t_e did not agree, howev -, that justice was ins-
adrainistered, d he it ight be fit te
~"'lse an
authority, if withoutre them exercise very
of it the
ooject coald not be accomplished. It was one thing to
Combat prejudice, nature, and d an order of things that
could not be controuled, an
of another to plant human
institutions for the purpose correcting..ou human)r_o
province
hiclee,
and producing human good.
first was the resource of legislation, the last Zen
of manners ; and the errors arosefrom not observing the due
limits of both, from not marking the difference between
grievances which the Legislature could remedy, and those
which must be left to
for
Winchelsea, that it was im-
one, unless the prejudices of the
ing the power and
wi
colonists were not brollin
ke down, but acted upon, first try
interposing with the high guess of the local Legislature' and-
n
found necessary. The whi
at 25,000, the blacks at 360 'n
island
Zeller of Parliament, if it were
30,000 neutrals, whom the gover; had been stated
.and there were besides
might win to themselves by indunl'ng part of the society
and whom it would be absolute niadgennesces and conciliation,
credible folly, with their eyes open not tftnd thei
imat.ostainnd-
lhereby gain a most important acquisition7iiicilio-b--,
rfe M the Colonists the means of attaining would
ealx„taa they could by a conquest of prejudice, but ject asid
if ire from them the removal of positive evil. In duwe timeon
for t,Y clid not remove it themselves, it must be removed
Drn."l.---(Cheers.)
the puke asked (as we understood) whether
or uke of Manchester's case was under the consideration
E orernment ?
lll** CANNING replied in the affirmative.
-.ger a
few words from Dr. LUSHINGTON in reply,
•e Pet • •
petition was ordered to be printed.
sT POOR LAWS.
'ANEY rose to bring forward his motion on the
C014471:E2f the Poor Laws, and referred to the Report of the
pait,!Ltee of 25th May, 1825, to show the increase of
poor_rla.M.and the poor rates. For the last three years the
milli tea In England and Wales had amounted to about six
shou7ginnually, having doubled every twenty years, alb-
43
el:, the population had doubled only every century. He
iesne_4,lPared, in some detail, the state of the poor in
of: ;,1 and in England, to show the improved situation
I,447ll.fortner. The Hon. Member proceeded to con-
ri472! 'Poverty was to be found lee. prevalent in the ma-
prooirze counties than in the agriculture. As further
41744-14 Poverty was more prevalent in agricultural than
Musing districts, the poor rates were much hea-

vier in the former districts than the latter. He would next
refer to the Committee of 1817—one of the ablest that ever
sat upon any important subject in that House. In that
Report it was stated, among many other extracts which the
Hon. Member read, that the effect of the present system
would be " to increase the amount of Cie poor rates, so
that they would continue until the whole property of the
land was absorbed, to the subversion of the order and hap-
piness of society in this country." After referring to the
increase of poor rates arising from allowing able-bodied men
to come upon that fund which should be sacred to the in-
firm and helpless poor, he would next call the attention of the
House to the better arrangements respecting the poor which
were to be found in Scotland than England, and the com-
paratively less prevalence of poverty in that country. Ano-
ther important point of view in which to consider the
comparative poverty to be found in the two countries, was,
that the increase of poor-rates was found:proportionable to
the extent and increase of crime. The poor-rates of Scot-
land, taking the average of the last ten years, as compared
wtth England and Wales, were in the proportion of one to
sixty-eight, and the proportion of criminals in that time
was as one to fifty-seven. The object of the Bill he was
about to propose was to remove the bounty to improvi-
dence which the present system held out in the Southern
Counties, in the payment of able-bodied men out of the
poor-rates, and to restore that natural order of things
which would raise a man from a degraded dependence to
one of independence. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by
moving for leave to bring a Bill to declare and amend the
law relative to the employment of able-bodied men, and the
payment of them out of the poor-rates. It was his inten-
tion that the Bill should net take effect until 1831, so that
all persons might Lae sufficient notice of it. The prin-
cipal provision and object of the Bill -vhich tlac.. Hon.
Member read, was, that overseers of parishes might be
vested with r. discretionary power to withhold or afford pa-
rish assistance to able-bodied men who had less than four
children to provide for.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had no objection to the
principle ; but the introduction of it at this late hour, and
at this advanced period of the Session, would materially
inconvenience the progress of public business. He would
even push the point farther than his Hon. Friend, for he
would propose to prohibit the interference of Magistrates
wherever Select Vestries existed. To the principle of the
Bill, however, he would repeat he had no objection.
Mr. N. CALVERT supported the Bill.
Leave was granted to bring in the Bill.
CANADA WATER COMMUNICATION.
Mr. W. HORTON moved that the House should take
into consideration the postponed Resolution for a grant of
307,0001. for proceeding with the Water Communication
between Montreal and the towns of Upper Canada.
Mr. WARBURTON opposed the Resolution, as he con-
ceived that the application of the money could not be of
the slightest advantage to the Colonies.
Mr. W. HORTON begged the House would remember
that the object of the present vote was not so much for the
purpose of securing commercial advantages as for military
purposes. He hoped the question would hereafter be
brought before the House in a more general way, and then
they could decide it more satisfactorily.
Mr. HUME opposed the Resolution.
The Honourable Mr. STANLEY felt bound to support
the Resolution. _ _

Mr. JONES rose to oppose the Resolution. He con-
sidered that, in the present state of this country, it was a
most unwarrantable expenditure of so large a sum.—(Loud
cries of Question," and 4‘ Hear.")—He hoped that, as
one side had been heard, the other would be heard also.
The Hon. Member was here about to allude to some ob-
servations which had fallen from another Hon. Member on
a former evening of discussion ; when
Lord SANDON wished to know from the Speaker,
whether it was usual for any Member to allude to tke
speech of another Hon. Member on a previous occasion ?

The SPEAKER then observed that his decision must be
anticipated ; that no Hon. Member had a right to allude to
the speech of another Hon. Member made on a former oc-
casion. This was the rule ; and he wished he could pro-
ceed a step further with the Noble Lord, and say that it
was not the practice.
Mr. HUME conceived the Hon. Member ought not to
have been called to order at all ; for the Honourable
Member to whom he had alluded had left the House im-
mediately after he had concluded his address. It was thus
i-ipossible to make any observations on it at the time.—
(Cries of " Go on.")
Mr. JONES then said, that he opposed the vote.
Lord RANCLIFFE hoped his Majesty's Government
would pause before they urged so large a grant.
Mr. WHITMORE was anxious not to show the
slightest hostility to the present Administration, and vrould
always oppose their measures with reluctance ; but must
object to the proposed grant.
Mr. PEEL expressed his conviction, that if we were not
prepared to abandon Canada to the attacks of the United
States whenever they chose to make them, the proposed

expence was indispensible.
Mr. A. DAWSON argued, that a Canal was a bad de-
fe,-ce for Canada. The best fortification of Canada would
be, to render the Gnvernment of this country so popular
there as to create an indisposition to be under any other.
31r. M. FITZGED.ALD supported th• vote.
Lord HOWICK said, that many of the subjects which
had been connected with the debate were more fit to be dis-
cussed in the Legislature of Canada, than in the British
House of Commons. He thought it a paramount considera-
tion that the money, in the present state of the finances,
might be ssved, or better applied at home. The vote
ought to be delayed till the Report of the Fivance Com-
mittee to be appointed in the next Session.
Mr. ROBERT GRANT supported the Bill, and con-
tended that it was politic to treat the Canadas as an in-
tegral part of the kingdom. The House then divided.