Star.
London, England, 1830-05-13 00:00:00

Lion hear.)—ln the course of some further oboes's.
dons, the hen. and learned member continued his comments upon
the speech delivered at Youglial, towards the conclusion of which
these words occurred—" Many children yet unborn shall be taught
to bless the name of Edward hlorough" (the dissenting juror).---
(a laugh.) Thus it was that Mr. Morough was distinguished from
I his obstinate Mother jurors by the panegyric of the hon. and learned
member for Clare. He felt bound to make his stand against the
principal of reviewing the criminal jurisprudence of Ireland after
conviction passed, atter sentence executed, without the benefit of
evidence, and trusting only to the accident of his being in
the house, and the chant: of his recollecting anything of the
transaction in question. The honourable gent. complained of his
(Mr. D.'s) havir.g taunted him repeatedly in the course of the
session. The fact he admitted ; but that he had done it in any un.
justifiable way he denied. Having been threatened with a proceeding
which was to have the effict. if not of annihilating him, at least of
disgracing him for ever, and perceiving towards himself, when pre-
sent, neither in attidude, person, nor matter, any of that daring
which ought to follow up such a threat, he elt himself entitled to
c4ll aloud either that the insinuations by which he was aspersed
should be substantiated, or that his character should be cleared.
He felt that he did no more than justice to the hon. gentleman
himself when he called upon him either to repeat what he was re.
pored to have said elsewhere, or to declare that he was maligned by
the papers when it ass imputed to him to have said, in speaking of
the subletting act, that it was the contrivance of a scoundrel aristo-
cracy, and that, if the exterminators did not remove it from the eta.
I tote hook, so help him flop he would almost recommend the people
to save themselves by becoming exterminators. The hon. and
learned gentleman said, in conclurion, that whatever papers were
necessary to substantiate a charge against him, the deposition of
Patrick Daly, for instance, in which the omission was complained
of—should be at the command of the hon. and learned member for
Clare.

Mr. J EPHSON spoke ftom under the gallery and was not quite
audible. The only answer given to the charge by the hon. and
learned gentleman was, that the depositions were before the judge
from the very beginning. The impression on his mind, and he
was present during the whole trial, was that the hon. and learned
gentleman was in error upon this point. If he recollected rightly,
an express was sent off to procure these depositions, and it was in
consequence of their absence on the first trial that a verdict of
guilty was returned. After hearing the defence of the hon. and
learned gentleman, he must say that his conduct did not now appear
to him in as favourable a light as it did before.
Lord ALTHORP said he felt that he was now acting in a judi.
cial capacity, and he therefore paid the greatest attention to the accu-
sation and the defence. The charge was, that the lion. and learned
gentleman, when the trial commenced, had in his hands depositions
at variance with the evidence, which depositions, if produced by
him, would have led to an immediate acquittal. He apprehended at
int that the hoc. and learned gentleman would not have been able
to meet the charge in a satisfactory way. From the explanation,
however, of the hon. and learned gentleman he now felt convinced that
the impression on his mind at the time was that the difference between
the depositions and the evidence was not such as to invalidate the
evidence so far as could justify him in putting a stop to the trial.—
If the only evidence was that of an accomplice, he would not have
been justified in proceeding ; but there were many other corrobora-
tive circumstances which justified him in proceeding with the trial.
less opinion therefore was, that the hon. and learned gent. did not
deserve the censure of the house. lie was aware that the member
for Clare was reported to have made certain speeches in other places,
which he (Lord Althorp) certainly regretted. But when the hon.
and learned gent. (Mr. O'Connell) came into that house, and
conducted himself as became a member of it, he thought it undesir-
able to make any reference to what he might have said out of it. It
was not the practice to call members to account there for what they
might have uttered elsewhere.
Mr. NORTH said the member for Mallow (Mr. Jeplison) coon.
plaked that his honourable and learned friend (Mr. Doherty) purl
sued the member tor Clare into taverns and public meetings, to':
discover ground of charge against him, in place of giving a sada.
factory answer to the charge brought against himself. But if
calumny sheltered itself in taverns and public meetings, his hon.
and learned friend must pursue it there, and answer in the only
way in which he could answer it from his place in that house. Ilia
honourable and learned friend's objection to the conduct of the
member for Clare was, that he had one tone and ttmper at taverns
and public meetings, and another in that House ; that he was all ve-
hemence at one side of the Channel, and all moderation at the other.
Those who read these speeches at public meetings could not bring
themselves easily to believe that the bon. and learned gentleman
approached this question with the temperance and forbearance of
which he made profession. The complaint of his honourable and
learned friend was that the member for Clare so long kept this
subject before the public without venturing to bring it forward
in a distinct shape. He gave frequent notice of it, but put it
off from time to time. He tugged at the sword BO long, that one
could hardly expect he would ever have the courage to draw it.—
The charge was that depositions were suppressed, which, if pro.
duccd, would have led to an immediate acquittal. The house must
recollect that the evidence before his honourable and learned friend
was, as it must be in all such cases, multifarious, from which it
was his duty as a public officer to draw the best information be
could, and submit it to a jury. After hearing the statement made
by his hon. and learned friend, would any person now pretend to say
that he did not act conscientiously on a conclusion which he drew to
the best of his judgment? Would the member for Clare say that he
did not so act? Would it be said that in so doing he did not act
upon a sound judgment ? There was in point of fact no inconsis-
tency, no discrepancy between the depositions and the evidence. The
sworn informations were in the hands of the judge; they were in the
custody of him in whose custody alone they could legally be. Though
there might be many gentlemen in that house not sufficiently conver-
sant in law to detect the fallacy in the reasoning of the member for
Clare, there were many able members there of the profession who could
tell the member for Clare, that it was not in the power of his hon. and
learned Mend to produce the depositions, and that the reember for
Clare himself, in the discharge of his professional duty, would have
felt himself bound to resist the production of such documents. The
hon. and learned gentleman was pleased to say, that Baron Penne-
father was the only Judge who at all troubled himself to look into
the depositions. He could not hear such an assertion made, so in-
jurious to the character of these learned and eminent persons, with-
out giving it the most unqualified contradiction. It was not to be
expected that he could answer for them all, but he knew that Judge
Burton, Judge Vandeleur, and Baron Smith, were constantly in the
habit of attending carefully to the depositions, and he believed it
was the practice of every Judge. The informations being once laid
before the Judge, it would be most indecorous on the part of his
hon. and learned friend if he attempted to interfere with them. If
indeed the was aware that the evidence upon which the case rested
was to be given by a perjured witness, he did not say that under
such circumstances it would not become his duty to decline proceed-
ing any further. There were not in the profession more high or ho-
nourable men than those upon whose advice and with whose con-
currence his hon. and learned friend acted and if the case presented
any pound of charge against a high law functionary, it was against
the judge who tried it, the only individual upon whom the member
for Clare pronounced a high eulogium. The real truth was that
this charge was never intended for the tribunal of parliament, but
for the excited and too easily inflamed passions of that over-credu-
lous but generous people, whose misfortune it had been for many
years to bedhrocted and influenced by vain, declamatory, ambitious
demagogues, whose study it was toexcite discontent which might lead
to turbulence, and eventually end in blood. (Cheers.) This subject
was not intended originally for parliament. It was one alieniforl,
intended to be brought before the tribunal of an excited and as.
dulous populace, in which the member for Clare so long success-
fully held a brief. (Cheers.)—Was not this evident from the man.
ner in which the honourable and learned gentleman dealt with the
question. He gave notice of it one day, and put it off to another—
appointed a Tuesday, and postponed it to a IVedneaday—said he
would bring it on before the recess, and again declined doing so till
after ; expressed an unwillingness at all to enter upon the question,
and with that tact, width he possessed in an eminent degree, spoke
of his unwillingness to revive party feelings, and his desire to
bury in oblivion all past animosities. Far his part, he did expect
that the boa and learned gentleman would never have brought it
befogs the house, and slue he was that they never would havelteard
more of It in that !souse, bad be not been so pressed by his hon.
and learned friend. The member for Clare professed great modera-
tion, and deprecated all irritating topics, but why was it that they
found him so loud In sae country, and so low, so sunk in another,
gentle almost to .tean. In Ireland be spoke with such powers of
voice, and chest, and gesticulation, as would do honour to a full.
grown Irish giant. In that house his tone and manner were sub-
dued, meek as that of the babes whom he spoke of as lisping the
name of the juror, Mr. Morough.—(Hear and a laugh.)—There he
acted the lion to admiration—bere his voice was subdued,