The Sun.
London, England, 1829-02-21 00:00:00

Gentlemen (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had stated occupied men's attention, might be the cause why the A-
tm a former occasion, that it was not intended to re-appoint vantage of reviving the Committee of Finance had been
the Finance Committee at present ; that was to say, as he neglected. The Committee had been accused of not hay-
inferred, not within such a period as would enable • them ing made that progress which they ought to have done,
to take the estimates into their consideration. Now, as but be thought a sufficient answer to that accusation would
Jr.A Canning had promised to refer the whole financial be the enumeration of the officers in the different depart•
state of the country to a Committee—as the Right Hon. ments whom they had examined. He maintained thet
the Secretary of Stag for the Home Department had come ' the very inquisition set on foot by this Committee was a
down to that House and fulfilled the pledge given Ly the , benefit of itself, for it made men in public offices, who
late Minister, and eahl that he anticipated very great had always a tendency to increase their expellees, cautious
benefit from the labours of such a Committee—he did ' how they acted. It besides restored to the Treasury that
think this resolution on the part of the Government was constitutional control which they ought to possess over all
vele. extraordinary. This was the fifth Finance Com- public establishments. He begged to call the attention of
mittee that had been appointed. All the preceding i the House to the state of the colonies, not one of which
Committees had been allowed to rs7:;ort fully, bet this one i was any thing but a burden to this country. 'l he Corn-
was stopped, he might almost say, in linrine. The mittee had obtained most luminous returns of the state
Finance Committee had beer able to report only upon two of the trade, population, and civil establishments of each
or titre, important points. Their whole time had been particular colony, and the ground-work was laid for
ocupied in collecting documents and evidence which would some uniform principle of Colonial Government, by which
enable them to report on all points, taking service by not only the finances of the Government would be im-
seevice. The Committee had been attended by eighteen proved, but also the condition of the colony made more
or twenty Members during the whole of the Session, flourishing. There was another subject of great import.
anti they he'd made such good use of their time, ante under the consideration of the Committee : he alluded
that they would in all probability, having arranged and to the system of excessive taxation, which was the cause
collected their evidence, been able to report early in the of smuggling. It appeared that this country expended no
present Session. Why, then, was the Committee sus- less a sum than 700,0001. in endeavouring to suppress
ponder! ? He was not aware that the House was dissatis- smuggling. The duty upon tobacco unmounted to
tied with the reports that the Committee had already made. 3,000,0001. a year, and the duty on brandy to 1,500,000/.
From the four'll report, in which they were so much in- Now be would put it to the Right Hon. Gentleman,
debted to the Right Hon. the Master of the Mint, he was whether it would not be better to raise the suns of
sole that the House must have derived a great insight into 11,000,0001. by some other tax, than by such a one as led
the tietencial state of the connote. The first report re- Ito the crime of i
stoue'gling, particularly when the country
epected life annuities, and was hastily drawn up, because, was put to so much expense in collecting the tax. With
from toe system pursued in granting these annuities, a respect to the subject of the public accounts, be was of
heavy charge was found to be imposed upon the country. opinion that the Committee would, without any great dis-
The Ordnance Department formed the first subject of the fieulty, have determined on a satisfactory arrangement. If
Committee's consideration, and their reason for taking that the practice pursued in France were adopted in this comm-
on first was, because they had the advantage of the assist- try, it would induce a perfect system of accounts. In
mice of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the present Secretary France, within six weeks after the termination of the vear,
of War, who bad applied himself as well as he was able to a regular account of the public money wee furnished which
edect a retrenchment in that office. He was ready to say had been audited by an efficient and responsible Board.
that that Mont Hon. Gentleman had advanced very consi- With respect to the finances of the country, he believed
derabiy indeed. For that reason, and because the CCM- it had been the intention of the Committee to follow up
ntittee thought the principle. open which the Ordnance their fourth report by another, in which they would have
Department wos constituted were such as ought to form an shown the sources from which the revenue was collected.
example to other boards, that report was made to the House He wished to see a Committee of that House appointed to
as 4000 as expedient, and it did appear to biro to embrace inquire how much of the gross revenue of 58,000,000/.
et* greater part of the subject. The Finance Department wis collected from the pockets of the people. Haynie ex -
was, however, postponed, and the Committee intended to pected this to be made the subject of examination
by a
report generally on the moat expedient way to deal with Committee, he hail bestowed some time in making himself
the public money, and to advise that the persona en- acquainted wi.li the various complicated details connected
trusted with it should give proper securities. The Com- with the question, and he had no hesitation in saying that
mittee slid as much as it was possible for them to do, it could be proved that the industry of the country had
and in that report they showed that they had quite enough been materially injured by the system of taxation now in
to occupy them another year. He was sorry to trouble operation. It would be a question worthy of that House
the House by reading elttract4 from the :report ; but really, to examine and decide by what meatis the revenue actually
when this Committee, which in,td devoted its best wanted could be obtained from the people with the least
service to the advantage of the country, was to be put possible injury to the progress of industry, and the accu-
an end to without the least reason given, or without any mulation of capital, and with the least possible vexation to
change of circumstances to warreet mien 1 proceeditign— those who had to furnish it. It would, on examination,
for he saw nothing in the cireumttanutes of the time which be found that on some of the enaterials of manufacturers
ought to induce the Government to put an end to the either in their raw state, or in the early states of prepare-
committee,—let felt it his duty to show the House what a Lion, no less a suns than 6,000,0001. were annually lost to
vast deal of good the continuance of the committee would the consumer. In some instances the tax on the raw
have effected. If it was desirable for the country that this article was greater than the cast of manufacture. He
committee should be appointed in Is2B, it was eight and would avoid entering into details, but lie must repeat that
just with respect to his Majesty's recommendation, with such a system was most injurious to the progress of wealth.
respect to Ministers themselves, that the committee having It w; only by the progress of accumulating capital and
collected a great deal of evidence, tftvadd continue to sit, in wealth that this country had been able to surmount her
order that the country might be enabled t 9 judge of its difficulties. If Obstructions were opposed to those sources
labours. It would even be inexpedient to move fora copy of improvement, we most remain stationary ; whilst, if
the ob,trtictlons to the accumulation of wealth were. re-
of that evidence, as it was merely dry evidence, without
any comments arising out of the knowledge which the atoned, we should be enabled to struggle against any ditli-
oommittee had acquired, and would out be near so useful cuitiee, He did not propose that any sudden reduction
as if accompanied by the report.---(Tlie Hots, Member here should be ronde its the blanch of taxation to which he had
read an extract from the report of the committee, stating alluded. He was only desirous, that if upon inquiry it
the reason why they entered upon the examination of the should appear to be attended with the prejudicial conee_
Or/Lance Department first ; and also stating that they quences which he lied attributed to it, it should be made
did not consider the report as a full or final one. During tbe4:object of gradual reduction. Those Members of the
the reading of these extracts there IV:19 some confusion in House who bad belonged to the Committee of Finance must
the House.)—The Hon. Member stated he wished to call he aware, that independently of the great items of expense,
the attention of the House to the following clause, as lie the army and the natn, considerable sums might be saved
considered it a very important one. He was soiTy to under other heads. The rnvision of the Colonial System
trouble the House by readingextracte, but he thought, not- would, lie thought, be attended wit.,
e large reduction of
withstanding that one great and vital question seemed now taxati.en io this country. There could be min kind of diffi-
exclusively to occupy the attention of the House, that it eulty in dinsonering new taxes which would produce a
was every man's duty to guard the public purse. That sufficient revenue without; pressing on industry. He was
was the first time the House was called upon to vote the anxious for the appointment of a Committee, because he
public money, arid the House, he thought, ought not to l*t thought these subjects could be much better examined and
the occasion pass without comment. He had no wish to di:teemed in a Committee than by the Government. it was
press himself upon the notice of the House, and he would quite ern as had been observed by his lion. Friend, that
e,
sit down if they were not disposed to hear him, firmly con- the attention ,4f Ministers Was too muck engrossed in their
vinced that he had done his duty. [The lion. )Number here respective tit/put-44%44a5, to allow them to enter upon those
read another extract from the report, in which the Cowl- laborious inquiries witioti etteee the necessary preliminaries
mattes bid it down as a principle that no Government to the effecting iff great reform:, Ile would wish to know
was juetifued in taking even the smallest sum of money wheeler it was time intention of llioistente to postpone the
from the people unless the purpose to wii;eni the money appoiintenate of time Committee until they had goe eid of
was to he applied was clearly established to tie ofadeantage I the weighty butineee which at present pressed upon them,
to the public.] This appeared to him to be a very 'en- ior whether they ineaot to object altogether to its ap-
por . tat t statement. The Committee were also guided, lie palaitment ?
thought, by proper views with reference to expenditure The CHANCELLOR of the eitX.CHE
tnQUER ob-
had fallen
and revenue. They think it expedient to provide for the served, that though he concurred in much eee
expenditure, a.nd then to make the revenue ;opal to it. from the Hen. Baronet, be did not consider it necttnarYt '
But if the revenue was more than equal to the ettpaodi- on the present occasion, to enter into any discussion With
tore, it became the duty of the Committee to look minutely respect to the various topics referred to 41 his obserVae
into the means of making the expenditure and the revenue Lions, To enter into any detail with respect to those to-
meet. The Committee therefore followed out that view, pies at a rime when the House were expecting other Irel-
and they dealt with one great subject, which vita House portant busing: fi; be brought under their consideration,
and the Government had supported for many years—that would be neither lair non convenient. It appeared horn
delusion of the sinking fund. The Ministry and the Cont- the speech of the Hon, Membea- for Abingdon, that what
mittee come to the conclusion that this delusion, which be (the ithancellor of the Exchequer) bad before stated
i'ad been kept up so long, and which a gnat many gen- had been misunderstood; he was therefore anxione to re-
tlernen did not believe to be eo complete a deluoion as it peat in a few wetetia what he had before stated, when he ,
turned out to be, ilwuld 'ee put an end to. Another great was asked whether it wet the intention of Government to
obj.ct of inquiry respected the unfunded debt, but the Come move for the revival of the Finance Committee. The
mittee did not complete their report on this subject. In Hoc. Member for Abingdon suppote el that he had given to
fact, in ell time reports the Committee stated over and over that propoekion a distinct denial. He was eore the Hon.
again that they did not deem it meets nary to do more than Members who wets present on the occasion woltid confirm
report on those important subjects, Wain' pressed on the bins in stating that lie toed not done so. He therm eetneti
House iounediately. The army had beets almost entirely that theta was no indisposition ua the part of GoVerument
neglected, not that evidence respecting it was not ob- to enter upon those inquiries which had last Session been
tinned, but it was not pursued, and they did not come to confided to the Finaoeue Committee ; but that at the pre-
the important subject of the consolidation of offices. A sent moment the attention of Government was so much
very important branch of the public service, the navy, was occupied, that they could not do otherwise than postpone
nut followed out, because the Committee did not collect the eoneideration of the question to a laee period of the
sufficient matter ; but enough came oat to show that a Session. ile also stated, that there existed amongst those
very important saving might be effected in the navy de- who had been members of the Finance Committee, a dif-
partment. It appeared that there were already a ferenee of opinion as co the course it would be proper to
sufficient number of ships built, and that no more were pursue. Some woe of opitromo that the Committee should
required for the service. It therefore appears, that a con- he re-appointed ; others thought Mat the inquiries could
siderab!e saving ought to be effected in the building be better conducted on the mesponsibihity of coverntnent,
department. It came out, too, before the Committee, and without the intervention of a Committees and one
that the ships were stored in time best possible condition, not Member suggearnet ".hat all the information which had been ,
damaged and in ill repair, but equal to service without collected by the Cectiontetee should be laid before the
hat: or danger. That important fact formed a very Howie, and become matter of gee/we] discussion. He did
strong reason, in his mind, why this Committee ought to not now mean to deliver any opinion tee4b respect to any of
he reitiveit ; for this subject, supposing there were no those courses m he thought it better to wait unlit the exist-
others, would form a sufficient object for their deliberation. ing pressure of business was removed from Government,
The House would see, by the Estimates of the Army and and then to consider what course would be most conducive
Navy, whets ter any reduction had been effected. With to the publte interest, and most consonant with the wishes
respect to what was a sufficient number of men, time Corn- of the House.
mittee could reef/um:lend nothing, because they were na, Mr. HUME said that the Finance Committeelng been
in possession of that information which the Government appointed with the view of reducing taxation. Upon that
was in possession of. The Committee could not recoin- untlersean4ing no effort was made last semteton its that Hoo,se
mead to the House what the peace establishment should be, to reduce the hardens of the people. He feared that Mi- .
becauie they did not know that we were at peace ; but the rosters were now eineet to allow another session to pass
Committee would act very differently this year with re- over in the same unproCitafs manner. He could assure
spree to that subject, the Right non. Gentlemen (the Se- the Holm he had no disposition to erow obstructions in
cretary for the Home Department) hawing declared ill that the way of ',llinisters at the present ffiOttlaiLlt, when they
House that this country had never ;teen in engine! a state were about to confer an important benefit on their eooetern;
with respect cc iimreign relations for the last 20 years. Of but be could not avocet eepressing regret at not observing, '
course the Committee would now take into coneidoretion on their parts, any evidence u a real wish to economize.
an estimate for the time of peace, and would inform the The House had a right to know wheelete the declaration in
House of the numbers they thought sufficient for a perma.. i his Meer:i/on. Speech at the opening of the ;;:etsion and the
nent peaneestablithment. If that were thie ease, let us consider intention of Vin; re coincided. He thought that Mtpi-
lion, their estimate would have agreed with the estimate sters were bound, before cassia; called upon the House to
about to be submitted to the House. The Hoont will agree to a rote of 6,000,0001., te sake a general state-
hardly credit the difference of the umbers in the arow ment of the measures of economy which the./ bed resorted
and navy at present, sad what they were in 1822. If the tn ip every depattnient of the state. So far as he' nt:A
country was never more tranquil than it is at present, he judge freno he estimates laid upon the table, the reductions
thought the army and navy eetablisheneat ought at least to which heti been n'Teetted wete a owns trifle, and not such
be reduced to the smallest number it had ever amounted es would authorise a 'Minititter to take credit for economy.
ta cant the war, which was in the year 1822. Ti's num- Of what use was an inereaeing :avenue to this country ?
hers of the army in 11322 were 71,779, and in 16.,/.8, Whilst the revenue went on increasing, 04e:tiers never
90,519, making a differetwet of 18,740. The numbers of mecteteed A single farthing. Reduction' were only vai'd. 9 ,
the /levy in 1822 were 21,teit.0, and in 1825, 30,000, when the reetenne fell short ; the moment it increased not'
making an increase of almost one-tit,id, Evidence came a word of eeentomnnvatt heard. In the last speech but one
out before the Committee, by which it was dearly proved, i from the Throne, when cllstrns pi.evailed and the people
that if we were in the state in which we are Wel we are I were clamorous for the reduetionor tanettont the King de-
now, the whole of the establishment in the Mediterran assn. I 'dared that very considerable retretiehtnents bad teens ;natio,
might be dispelled with ; yet there was not much reduen I wail that those retrenchments would he carried still terther.
lion proposed in the Navy Estimates. tftke intention was iln the last :,,n)eyal Speech, however, not a word of this kind
persisted in of putting au end to the Committee, the coin- ; was to be found, tenernly because there had Leen an increase
try must look to its own efforts in future to obtain ant, re-1 of 2,000,000/. in the revenoz,—..en unfortunate increase,
ductiun in taxation. He considered that eight or Mao i lie considered it, because it woulif tom elmenccasiou of keep-
clerks might perform the duty in the Navy pay- office, for i ion eete onnece.ssary ettablishinents. The ifount wne:talled
which 40 or 30 were now employed. Again, the conso- ,to vote oppon men for a peace establishment. The
Vitiation of offices, the Volunteer Establishment, the Cieil ! measures now iu.peoteress would allow Ministers to take
Establishment in Ireland, the pluralities of offices, and the i 1r,t,000 or 20,000 men front peuland. Previous to 1793
general consideration of the best sriode of dealing with the ;bete were never more than 8,000 or .9,000 men kept in
nioneY raised for the purpose of paying the interest cmi the ' Ireland. 11 Ow existing distress and diecontene were re-
. public debt, and of pursuing its course safe through all its i moved, he knew (ine circumstances which required us ty
ramification., until it reached the creditors halide, were : maintain more then 12,Oente ;n en in that country, instead of
objects of deliberation to the committee, which they bad the present force anwti enng to SP,$)9O men. The esti-
-eery much at heart. There was great and useless expert- ' mates for 182; and the three following years were less
dieitie in the-Dock-yard and in the coast and water gnartl, than those for the prezeut year. What confidence, then,
Whittle lee hitt no doubt the.Ceitninittee would have rectum- could be placed in economical professions of Ministers?
Xuentie.l the House to retrench.. Parliament ought to remove3,ooo,ooo/, of taxes this year,
Sir -HENRY PARNELL supposed tleit the cotutidera- in order to set the energies of the nation free. Time Hon.
tion Of that great toestion which at present so exclusively Member concluded by statiug, that though lie was uri-