The Sun.
London, England, 1820-02-22 00:00:00

MUTINY BILL

LOlll PALMERSTON brought in a Bill to .•
Otte the nitinv Bill in force 6;1 the 25th June,
nieh was read a first and second time, and or-
.tlered to be commited to-morlow.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
that the House should resolve itself into a Com-
-I.llittee of Supply, and the King's Message and
Ve Arm
y Estimates wete ordered to be referred
° the Committee. •

THE QUEEN.
On the question that the Speaker should leave
the Chair being put, $
Mr, Hume said, before the Speaker left she
he was anxious to obtain some inform
on a subject, respecting which he had put
~,soon to the Noble Lord opposite, on a
,it'strier evening. The answer which he had then
4"s!ived was not satisfactory. lie was un-
Wliling at that time to soy mote than he did,
:btit he thought it would-be felt, that if there were
"3ne 'Pestle!), that at the present morneut jute-
lested the Members of that House, and the Pub-
lie at large, more than another, it was that to
Zhich he had called the attention of t!,e Noble
He believed that no individual who had
.11.eard the Noble Lord expatiate on tile great and
insportatit advantages resulting to the nation from
1.1.1 e establishment of the House of Brunswick in
these realms, would think it proper that one il-
illstrious-Memberof that Family (now our Queen)
should remain unacknowledged without some
,Ong reaSoll9 being shown for it. He (Mr.
omt).did not lay claim to more loyalty titan
`qes, but he was surPrised that some of thOse
Zho 'Professed such boundless devotion to the
.I"sonswiek Fathily should be slow to acknowledge
Lof its Members as Queen, .to which rank,
,if
,41:e oittlerstood the law of the country, she was of
iight entitled. It was not his intention to inter-
lere with the right of his Majesty to alter. the
.:11.413 of the Church, but be would venture to
ays what every body knew, that the late change
ant the Liturgy had
.excited much surprise,
1, caused great ditlerence of opinion in
he country. He understood the Noble Lord
sslid
.t the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that
flo was intended to move for a grant to meet
ti 4 °fle quarter the chaeges on the Civil List, at
(Ist rate at which it had been lately fixed. He
Took the liberty of saying that the proposed grant
441;'ne quarter would make no provision foi: the
after Her Her annuity of 35;0001• per annum,
the on the Consolidated Fund., bad ceased on
tlemise of the late King.• lois had been grant-
mot.: her
as Princess of s, and was hers no
what
situation
that she wa, Queen of England In
to L -ttuation was she to be placed ? Was she
w." provided tot as Qiieeu—as nincess . of
ell or vi7P...s she not to be provided for at
)111. Watt ste to be maint hilted in a manlier
r Stable to her reek, or was she to be left des-
titute, reduced to the condition of a beggar ?
et)" Majesty was as much the Queen of this
thlintrY as his Majesty could be Kieg. This, in
a-- case of George the Second's Queen, was
• Le in the most particular manner, and
nit had expected that in the present instance there
"'Quid have been no doubt--no hesitation in re-
voquising her Majesty as Queen of England,
ch rank belonged to her of right on the death
of George the Thud. Ile wished the House to
' consider what most be the situation of her Ma-
jesty if the English Parliament sepaCated without
_ckliowledging her rank. if she were to land to-
L°llsow at Dover, how would sire be received ?
„id the officers at any of the out-ports ktww wite-
,,,t_ter they were to receive her as their Queen or not
v.Ves it fit that matters shOuld he left thus, that she
should !fee likely to laud, arid find the public tune-
Itonarics uninformed as to the Manner in which
ewere to receive het Ought she to be
rbiecicd to inconveniences like those which he
"il'lstised, and ought the House to separate
lunt some provision for her Majesty ?

This ought not_ to be. He was .confident that
Ministers would consult the feelings of the people,
as well as a sense of moral decency, by making
such an arrangement as she had a tight to claim,
not only as Queen, but as a wife under the law of
England, which in every case compelled the man
to provide for the woman whoin he took for his
wife. If. the House separated, as was now
posed, she would have nothing to depend upon
for support, and she could only look for support
from Ministers and front his Majesty. He had
no doubt that his Majesty of himself would make
a suitable provision for the Queen ; but it was
not right and consistent that she should he left
thus dependent. He would ask it it were not pro-
per that some specific provision should be made,
and some decision come to, as to how far her iNla-
jesty was to be received as Queen of England-;
and these were points on which he thought the
House were boned in honour and in decency to
come to some understanding without loss of time.

Lord CASTLEREAGH said, whet, The Hun. Gen-
tleman put the question to him which he had ask-
ed on a former night, he had felt it to be his ditty
to consult the feelings of the House and of the
Country, by not entering into the subject more
than was absolutely necessary..—(f-lear, hear,
hear !)—He had therefore considered himself
hound to 'say no more till the question came re-
gularly before the House, than this, that care had
been taken to guard against any additional diffi-
culties being experienced by the High Personage
alluded to. What he then stated referred more'
especially to pecuniary matters. It was thought
proper to guard against inconvenience of that
sort, with the least possible loss of time, as it was
not their object, in any case, to give the High
Personage in question cause to complain of harsh-
ness or inattention.

Mr. Hussy remarked, that his question bad
been treated as one that might have been spared.
It was now to be proposed that a grant should be
made to cover the expenses of tie Civil List for
one quarter forward. , Was it then unfair for him
Lo ask, if the annuity granted the Princess of
Wales was to cease, or in what way, that tailing
her, she was to be supported ?
Lord CASTLEREAGH believed, that if the Hon.
Gentleman had only had patience to hear the grant
about to be moved by his Right Hon. Friend, he
would have found that it extended to the Conso-
lidated Fund on which the annuity of 35,0001. to
the Princess of. Wales had been charged.
Mr. TIERNEY, as one of the guardians of the
public purse, could not be content to act on blind
rumours ; but, at the same time, he could not
consent to give a snot of money to any person
labooring under a heavy cloud of suspicion, till
that suspicion should be removed. This was his
feeling on the subject. He would give no opinion
on the merits of the case, and he agreed. with the
_Noble Lord opposite that the question ought„
never to have been discussed in that House. But
how was it brought before them ? Did they go
to the question, or did tequesrion come to them ?
It might suit the Noble Lard to proceed in
a covert Manner, and, by the aid of the 'pul-
pit and other means, throw suspicions on the
party who had. heels metitioued, and to ab-
stain for the present making it the ';object of
debate; but lie (Mr. Tierney) thoucht that
if any debate were 10 take place on the subject,
not a moment ought to be lost in bringing it
on. No man cottld feel more abhorrence for con-
duct really had than he did, and, with this feel-
ing, he could not consent to a grant in favour of
a person now labouring under suspicions like those
which were attached to the subject of the present
conversation. Ho- was then called upon to vote
a sons of money, because that suited the views of
Ministers ; and then ar some future day, if be :un-
derstood the matter rightly,t he whole business was
to be brought before them.—[lt was denied,
on the Ministerial side that this had been
ssateai—Well then, it seemed they were to
have no discussion at all about it ! But even
this would not •remove his objections. IVould
Ministers answer a few questions that he was
desirous of putting? Would they say :whether
or not any notification of the death of the late
King bad been made to the Queen ? Had she
been apprized of the new rank to which she had
succeeded ? Had any communication taken place
between her Majesty and the Ministers of . the
King since the demiie of the Crown ? \Votald
they answer these questions ? If nothing of the
kind that he had supposed had taken place+ what
was the situation of this country 3 They were all
of a sudden called epon to pass oaer one Member
of the Royal Family- in, their prayers, for whom
they had been heroarfore enjoined to pray. This
bad been done `oy oraier ; but for what reason ?
Somebody seenaao.to be ill-treated in this. It
appe.dr that either the King was betrayed,
or else, Qateen was insult ed.-ss(Hear, bear, hear !)
—4le was no priirty to any such feeling ; but,
speaking out, as an hottest Member of Parlia-
ment ought to do, lie would repeat it, that cir-
cumstances led to the conclusion, either that. the
King was betrayed, or that the Queen was in-
sulted. If a case could be made out against her
Majesty, let it be done. Ile had heard, iu com-
mon with every body else, some rumours afloat
that were very injurious to her present Majesty.
He had heard that, which, if it were true, he
should
,say was sufficieot to decide that she ought
not to sit upon tie throne of England. He had
heard what would lead him to such a conclusion,
but he could not consent to act on mere rumours.
If a subject in this country had a claim to the
sante impartial justice as a King, it was not too
much to admit, that a King had as good a claim to
justice as a subject, and where be was aggrieved he
was entitled to seek for redress. He (Mr. Tierney) •
had heard that a Commission had been sent out to
inquire into transactions of an improper character,
and to take evidence on the subject. IVas- this
so, or was it not ? If it were, true, why not
produce the evidence ? Did the Noble Lord mean
to say that he would keep the evidence in his
pocket, and not bring it forward till a vote had
been made in favour of a person who might be
unworthy of such consideration? This matter he
would maintain ought to he sifted to the bottom.
He would say again that it the rumours now
abroad were true her Majesty was unfit to sit on
the English Throne, In that case the King ought
to have his mind relieved by the interletence of
Parliament, and if they were but calumnies the

Qacen was .entittedto an opportunity of repelling
them. The recent change was not the only one
that bid taken 'place within a very limited period.
On the death of her—late Majesty an alteration
was made, and the Clergy and others Were di-
rected to pray for ihe King,. the Prince Regent,
the Princess of Wales, and the Royal Family.—
He would then ask, why he was not to pray fur
the same person under a different name, for whom
he had so recently been directed to pray, when
she was Princess. of Wales ? But the Noble Lord
would say, that to introduce this topic was to
promote a political battle, and to bring on dis-
cussions, that could do
.no good, but which might
prove fatal to the tranquillity of the country. He
might say all this, bat still he must ask the No-
ble Lord if he might not pray for the same per-
son as Queen for whom he was enjoined to pray
while she was only Princess of Wales. He
believed that Ministers, whatever might he
the feelings-of the King, would be glad to put off
this question. 'They had in tact done so, till it
could be blinked no longer. He now called upon
the Government to bring the matter forward, and
he solemnly pledged hitifself that if it should ap-
pear, on inquiry, that her Majesty was unworthy
to sit on the Thz.one of England, that nothing
%II (mid deter him.from doing his duty, and, as far
as in him lay, contributing to relieve his Nlejesty's
wind as to his Royal Consort. It his Majesty
and his Queen could not live together, it was a
matter to be deplored, though not to he re-
medied, but at all evens site was Queen,
and that word must come out before he
would consent to any vote on her account.
He called _ (so the House to look at the
course Which had been pursued towards that
high personage (as the Queen had been called by
the Hon. and Noble Lord) and see how it stood.
It was said that a Commission had been sent out
to examine witnesses as to her et iminality—it was
then seep that site was struck out of the Liturgy,
and then it was thought vet y 5 impertinent in the
Members of that House to ask what had become
of her, and where site had gone, when a grant
011 her account was wanted. But the Noble Lord
stated the grant to be moved would extend
as well to the Consolidated Fund as to the Civil
List. He, however, contended, that the provi-
sion made for the Princess of Wales could not be
applicable to the service of the Queen. The sub-
ject ought to be fully investigated. If the Noble
Lord would pledge himself that a satisfactory in-
quiry should take place.in the new Parliament,
with such a promise he would be content. 1-Ic
was only anxious that justice should be done.—
The subject was painful to speak upon, and it
was one of extreme delicacy. What he lid said
-had been tel tittered, but uttered out of'
sincere respect for the Monarchy of England:
Mr. BROUGHAM said, his Right Hon. Friend
had expressed his feelings as delicately as.,pos-
sible, and proVed himself fully aware of the ex-
treme delicacy of the subject. The House would,
he trusted, do him the justice, that his situation
was still more delicate than that of his Right Hon.
Friend, and that it was a still more painful duty
for hint to perform titan it was for his Right [lon.
Friend ; but he was bound to offer a few obser-
vations in fairness to his own mind, and in fair-
ness to the Right Hon,Gentleman (Mr. Tierney).
He believed that it was trite new to hesitate to
recognize as Qoeeti the Wife of the King, by
Orders in Council, in the speeches of Ministers,
and by the '2ublic Authorities. Ile had always
*untkrstood that the Wire of the reigning Kingsivas
the Queen Consort. The late demise.of the Crown,
which made the Prince. Regent King, made his
Consort Queen, and she was as much toe latter
as he could be the former, and she was none the
less Queen because her name was struck out of
the Liturgy ; though no Orders in Council named
her, and though no addresses of condolence and
congratulation were voted to her Majesty, and her
being Queen was nothing affected by her being
ailed merely a " High Personage" by the Noble
Lord opposite, instead of being named the Queen.
These distinctions would not better her title if
they were accorded, and being left out they couPe
not injure it. These were all

" Trifles light as air ;"
and ought he then to feel hampered if called upon
fora grant of money to support the undeniable,
Ite •indispoted rauk of that illustrious personage
who was Queen of these Realms, and who must
continue Queen of them so long as that which was
rumoured against ,her remained unproved. He
did not see any great cause for objection to the
proposed vote ; for, if they voted enough to meet
the'charges of the Civil List for one quarter at the
rate of its former income, and also a sum suffi-
cient to continue the annuities charged on the
Consolidated Fund,they gave the Crown the power •
of making good the accustomed payment, and left
it to the Crown, if practicable, to effect a Cortes-
poudent saving in some other quarter. He could
not see why this question was introdneed on the
present occasion. He knew of no clond of
,sus-•
picion that had been said to hang over her Ma-
jesty ; refused his ears to all the rumours that
were afloat. So long as the high and illustrious
personage that had been spoken of was the Con-
sort of the King, he knew her only as such. Of
any inquiry that had taper place be knew no-
thing-she would hear of nothing—he would listen
to nothing of the kind, but would study to keep
his ' mid "•free from the sinister inflne4tce of
those reports which had got abroad. But if a
charge should ever be brought forward against
her Majesty, founded on the inquiry said to
have been recently made, that charge he
would' meet, as an honest Member of Parlia-
ment ought to meet such a charge, and endea-
vour to deal out equal justice to both the parties
principally concerned, (God knew that they alone
were not concerned). Till that time arrived he
would express no-opinion, but when it came he
would endeavour to render justice to the Queen,
or to the King, if he were placed in a situation
which entitled him to a remedy. But, till that
time, events of such unspeakable importance, big
.with matters which none could scan but those
most intimately acquainted with all the extraor-
dinary circumstances of the case, and big with
consequences.to the subjects of.his Majesty-which
none could anticipate ; till that time came his
lipS were sealed, 11'hile be said this, he ought
in justice to her Majesty (without prejudging any
question to be hereafter decided) to recall the

fact, that as yet nothing had been proved against
her. B:.e had never yet shown any slowness
to meet accusation, and had not tared to re-
pel those charges which she had been enabled to
meet. .Let the moment of attack come whet, it
might, they ought to give her credit for readiness
to meet the charge, and believe that she may he
found equal to the task of making her defence.—
Ile trusted that he might be allowed to say, that
more calmness and temper ought to be brought to
the discussion of this question than could be ex-
pected at present. On such an occasion, even the
voice of party ought to be heard no more. Ques-
tions so big with importance to the. Constitution
of this realm, and to all the Members of the
Royal Family, ought to teach them to avoid ap-
pealing to the turbolent passions of men, by
broaching this subject at a moment like the pre-
sent. But one feeling ought to prevail. All
ought to deprecate at resting the course of justice,
and defeating the administration of justice herself,
by prematurely dragging the question to discus-
sion through the mire of every hustings ail over
the country. For himself, having duties of a
professional nature to perform on the one hand,
and having a public ditty to discharge as a Mem-
ber of Varlittment on the other, he should endea-
vour to steer an even and a correct cow se, and
fairly acquit himself of both, and sincerely did he
hope that the same moderation %%hie!) he vowed
to God filled his own bosom, might extend itself
to every other so often as this question came on,
der the consideration of that llouse.—(llcar,
hear, hear !)

Lord CASTLEREAGH, after the speeches of the
Right Hon. Gen:leman and the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, felt that a few words might be ex-
pected trout him. Yet, atter what hod been stated
by ate Learned Gentleman, it was hardly ne-
cessary for him to rise, as that which be (Mr.
Bioughana) bad stated must, he was sure, carry
conviction 'to the whole House. All must feel
that the course which he had suggested was tile
only proper course that could be taken. lie had
been supposed, in the course of the conversation,
to throw out an insinuation which he had never
intended should come from him. . In what he had
said on a former night, he bad merely spoken to
the measures taken to guard against any pecuniary
inconvenience being sustained in a certain high
quarter. He had,said that a moment would come
when the Civil List must. be brought tinder the
consideration of Parliament, and a suitable pro-
vision made for all the Members of the Royal
The question was then put and carried, and the
House resolved itself into a