The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-05 00:00:00

.TITE SUN, LONDON, TfIURSDAY MORNING, JUNE 5, 1845.

latter town some short time since to discuss the merits of the rival lines.
The feeling was almost unanimous in favour of the Inlet° Windham.
The population within fourteen miles round, and even as far as
Diss, came to the Dereham market. Taking both the import and
export trade into consideration, he conceives the line to Wiudl.am
far superior, in every respect, to that directly to Norwich.
inasmuch as the former affords a readier access to the metropolis.
The price of coals at Dereham is 40s. a ton, and gas, wh .ch is now
12s. 6d. per thousand cubic feet, is materially enhanced in value
by tie high rate of coals. The feeling of the farmers is decidedly
in favour of the Dereham and Windham branch.

Cross-examined by Mr. CHAMBERS—The trade at Norwich is
considerable, and a great competition and consequent low prices
exists in that town. There were two meetings at Dereham, but
does not remember resolutions against the Dereham and Windham
line being made by Lord Baring. Three-fourths of the produce of
the 11,rmer town is not purchased by Norwich dealers.

Mr. John Reeve, examined by Mr. ANDREWS, Q.C.—ls a general
merchant at Dereham, dealing in seed, wool, wine, and spirits. In
the carriage of wool speedy transit is of great importance, as in
warm weather it shrinks, and thus loses considerably in weight.
It is a great advantage to obtain a speedy change of market.
The wool exported to France passes through London. He
annually makes up about 6,000 or 10,000 tods of wool. At
Swaffliam and Wakeham there are also two other extensive
woolen-dealers, to both of whom railway communication would be
desitable. Changes in the transit of corn and seeds are very in-
jurious, and therefore a transfer of such articles from one train
to another is decidedly objectionable. Mr. Blake was present
at the meeting of tie inhabitants of Dereham, and instructed a
Mr. Bush to introduce the East Denham and Windham scheme
to the public, and advocate its ads antages.
Cross-examined by Mr. Catmer—ls perfectly sure that Mr.
Blake attended the meeting in the capacity of promoter of the line
through Windham.
Mr. CHAMBERS commenced a cross-examination of this witness,
but the Committee unanimously considering it irrelevant, he was
stopped, and the evidence rejected.
Formal proof was then given of the assents and dissents, the
traffic and distance tables, and the Committee adjourned.

GROUP KK.
LIVERPOOL AND BURY LINE.

The Committee resumed at the usual hour.
Mr. John Turner was the first witness called. He is a native of
Haywood, 8 miles from Bury. Haywood contained a population
of 15,000 persons. The following was a statement of the amount
of goods annually brought into Haywood from Liverpool :—Cotton,
8,506 tons; coals for manufacturing purposes, 71,101 ; flour, 261;
iron and lead, 1,720; timber, 1,000; groceries, 80 ; potatoes, 936;
stone, 400 ; cannel, 15,000 ; coal for domestic purposes, 15,600.
The whole amount being 101,304 tons of commodities annually
imported from Liverpool into Haywood. The present price of
carriage was 11 s. Bd. from Liverpool ; by the projected line it
would be only 9s. 3d., as they would carry them at 3d. per ton per
mile, which would be the maximum price. This would afford an
annual saving to the people of Wigan of 7,850/. 151. in respect to
coal, and in cotton of 1,027/. 16s. 2d., the coal for domestic pur-
poses 780/., in sundries 537/. 10s., in agricultural produce 2341.
and by carriage 634/., by the greater cheapness which they wouldob-
tain produce through the new line. The whole saving to the people
of Wigan by the projected line would be 11,0241. Is. 2d. yearly.
Mr. William Pearce, superintending agent to the Earl of Bal.
carras at the Wigan coal mines, stated that he had been thirteen
years in his Lordship's employment. Lord Balcarras was the
largest coal-mine proprietor in that district. He raised a large
quantity of cannel coal. Lord Belcarras employed 1,000 colliers,
and had engines of 450 horse power. The quantity of tons
raised by his Lordship annually was 200,000. The cannel coal was
sent to Bolton, Bury, Haywood, Middleton, Rochdale, Ashton,
and Oldham. Coal was sent thence to all parts of South Lanca-
shire and North Cheshire. There was a large number of collieries
around Wigan at which there were annually raised 1,500,000
tons of coal. Had seen the plans and sections of the Liverpool
and Bury Railway; knew the neighbourhood through which it
would pass. Was therefore enabled to say that the line would
pass through the most productive parts of the Wigan coal-fields. A
large portion of these coalfields was not worked at all in conse-
quence of their remoteness from any mode of transit. There were
60 1.5 square miles of coal-fields through which no line passed,
or 38,528 acres, or 1,186,341 acres of one foot thick of coal.
The whole district of coal-fields, calculating in this way, would
supply 15,000,000 of tons after supplying the immediate neighbour.
hood. He had not taken into calculation any coal lying lower than
600 yards. The quantity of coals taken to Liverpool in one month
from those coal mines was 22,5301 tons. The coal imported into
Liverpool annually was 1,183,844 tons. The coal fields in
question would last for 1,267 years—in effect they were
inexhaustible. The average export was 109,435 tons from
Liverpool. The export from Liverpool had been of late years
decreasing, not only from the higher price of coal but from the
duty. the present mode of transit by the Leeds and Liverpool
Canal c.,st 3s. 73d. per ton. The people of Liverpool would save
in c,.al for home consumption by the projected line 107,4441.; for
exportation 17,3271. anually. Thus the whole yearly saving
to the people of Liverpool by the new line would
be 124,771.. The coals for export from Liverpool would
isr his opinion, increase to 404,927 tons annually from the superior
facility—this would be a saving of 30,3691. 10s. 6d. Was aware
that parties would enter into a contract to open new mines if the
projected line were opened. Bolton consumed of coal annually
6.614 tons, five-sixths of which' would be carried from
Wigan by the projected line, or 5,512 tons, which, paying
3d. I,er ton per mile on the projected line, would pay
the railway 206/. 14r. The carriage of other coal to
Belton from Wigan would average annually 4351. 6s. The witness
went into calculations showing that the general coal traffic on the
projected line would be 71,7761. Thought the superior facilities
whieh the new line would afford would lessen the price of coal so
much that they would be largely exported to Ireland and other
places. Coal mould, if cheaper, be used as ballast.
Cross-examined—Was a member of the Committee of the pro.
posed railway. The great b.,cly of coal lay rather to the east of
Wigan. On the existing line the gradients were, in his opinion,
better than on the proposed line.
This witness was cross-examined at great length, respecting the
precise situation of the coal-mines, and their contiguity or distance
from the proposed line. The evidence was of no public interest.
Mr. Wm. Ormanby—Was:principal bookkeeper at the collieries
of the Earl of balcarras. In three years 9,300 tons of coals, be-
longii.g to the Earl of Balcarras, had been pilfered in the transit of
the coal from Wigan along the Leeds and Liverpool Canal. This
witness confirmed the evidence of the preceding one.
Mr. William Mercer, lived at Newton-in-the-hulls, and was
agent to Mr. Leigh. Had been educated as a land.agent and col-
liery-viewer. Was acquainted with the district through which
the projected line would pass, and generally agreed in the evidence
given by the two last witnesses.
Mr. Robert Daglisb; coal proprietor, near Wigan, and mining
engineer—Thought 1,500,000 tons of coalwereannually raised in the
neighbourhood of W igan. Confirmed the testimony of Messrs.
Peare and Mercer, but added no new material fact.
Mr. Thomas Lehey, agent to Mr. Bankes, mine proprietor at
Wigan, gave testimony in corroboration of Mr. Peace's. The
projected railway would save some 45 or 50 per cent. to the coal
proprietors at Wigan and its vicinity.
Captain Lewes, manager of the Manchester and Leeds line of
railway, was generally acquainted with the district proposed
to be traversed by the Liverpool and Bury line. Thought if the line
were worked out, the coals of Wigan would be carried to the West
Riding towns. Before the railway was made between Rochdale
and Oldham, two coaches a week were the only conveyance. Last
year, by the railway, there were 40,000 passengers, not including
pleasure excursions, and the number would be greater but that a
change of carriages took place on this line. In his opinion, the
same kind of intercourse would occur between Wigan, Bury,
and Bolton, if the projected line were carried out.
Mr. Richard Manly Foster, superintendent to Messrs. Bromelaw
and Foster, coal-raine proprietors at Bickerstaffe—Knew but of one
line which would be beneficial to the public, and that was the
proposed line.
At the conclusion of this witness's testimony the Committee
adjourned, at four o'clock.

f, 'lament gave them an Act, the line would mo±t certainly be made.
The atmo,pheric line was the first that had been projected, and
he (Sir William) thought that he had heani of it some months be_
! fore the South- Webtern line had been at all spoken of in pubic.
Certainly the population in that district were unanimously in its
favour.

Mr. Chace, a farmer, residing within about five miles of Pets rs.
field, who, in addition to a farm on his own haws, also managed
2,000 acres for Sir Harry Featherstone—The land was exceedingly
goad for pasture, and he hai about 390 sheep on his own farm, and
there were from 1,400 to 1,500 on Sir H. Featherstone's ground.
Sir Harry had alio another farm, where there were about 1,200
sleep. He had about 700 ewes which lambed, and, together, about
240 to 250 beasts of the best quality, fed on the farms. They
sent a good many:calves to London,,the cost being about Si. each for
calves, and Is. 9d. for lambs. He had attended the market at
Chichester, which was about fourteen miles distant, since he was
sixteen years of age, and it was attended by people from all round
the country. There were two great stock fairs in Petersfield in the
year, which were by far the greatest fairs in the neighbourhood.
There was also a considerable quantity of game sent up to London
during the existence of the coaching system, especially during the
early part of the season.
Mr. Parsons, a resident at Petersfield, confirmed the testimony of
the other witnesses as to the abstraction of the trade.
Mr. King, of Buriton, stated that he held 1,100 acres in one
farm and '240 in another, and that the whole of the country round
Petersfield was admirably adapted for feeding stock, and was very
rich in all kinds of agricultural produce.
Mr. Monday, a cattle-dealer, residing within two miles of
Petersfield, stated that he had about 2,300 sheep on his own
lands, and purchased 500 to 600 beasts, and from 10,000 to 12,000
sheepoyearly, The land throughout the whole distriipt was ex.
ceedingly good for grazing, and the stock was of the very finest
description. He had himself obtained several prizes for show
cattle, as had also some of his neighbours, and he believed that
there were at least 1,000 beasts fatted every year in the valley of
Petersfield. The cost of conveying sheep to market was 9d. a head
to Vauxhall, and 2d. from there to Smithfield. The expense of
getting beasts to that market was from Ss. to 1 Is. a head, and this
railway would be a very great advantage. This witness also testi.
fled to the growth of a considerable quantity of timber in the
district.

Mr. Hallam, a butcher at Calmore, said he had slaughtered be-
tween SOO and 1,000 sheep since February last, and sent most of
the carcases to London, at a cost of 2s. 4d. a cwt. During the
existence of the coaching system they had sent their meat for
24 d. a stone, and at present they were suffering much from the
distance of the railway.
Mr. Canley stated that he and his father had farmed the tolls of
Petersfield market for more than 50 years, and that the number of
sheep penned at the December fair was from 7,000 to 10,000, be
sides which there were about 600 or 700 beasts. He was also an
auctioneer. Had sold 2,663 oak trees at 41. a load this year
for Sir W. Jolliffe, but the price would have been at least IL a load
higher if they had had any good conveyance to the coast, and the
country was altogether well wooded.
Mr. S. Chace, a farmer at Steep, north of Petersfield, confirmed
the previous witness as to the quality of the land, and stated that
there was as gesd malting barley grown in the neighbourhood as
anywhere in the country. He also dealt in provisions, and had
paid 2004 a year for carriage for the last thirty-eight years.
Mr. Hearsay, a farmer in the, neighbourhood of Liss, which was
a little farther up the line, gave similar testimony, and stated that
a farm had lately been sold in that neighbourhood at SO/. an acre.
Mr. Simmons, a paper-maker and coal-merchant at Haslemere,
stated that there were fifteen corn-mills and seven paper-mills near
that place, and that the formation of the proposed railway would
reduce the price of coals nearly I ss. a ton. Beside this paper and vim
business, there was also a large turnery in the town, the wood
about the place being well adapted for that purpose. There was
also a manufactory of pyroligneous acid and of naptha. The ter-
minus at London-bridge was decidedly the best, and the formation
of the railway would save him at least 3001. a year in carriage,
and to another firm there would be a saving of double that amount.
The Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock to morrow.

GROUP LL.
THE LONDON AND SOUTH-WESTERN
RAILWAY EXTENSION.

This Committee sat at twelve o'clock this morning, and pro.
ceeded to hear the evidence of Mr. Bennett and Mr. Deacon, who
corroborated the statements made yesterday by the witnesses in
favour of the extension of this line to a point equally distant from
Westminster, Waterloo, and Hungerford.bridges.

The CHAIRMAN said it was the desire of the Committee to know
whether there were any witnesses to prove that the extension
would be advantageous to the inhabitants of the west end of the
town; there was no doubt that it would be beneficial to those
who resided near the bridges in question.
Mr. SMIRILE said that they had already shown that it would be
favourable to the city of London. He wished that the Committee
would adjourn till to-morrow, when he would be able to produce
the necessary evidence.
Mr. M. CHAMBERS suggested that the Counsel on the opposite
side should produce evidence with respect to the traffic tables.
Mr. SMIRILE said that, if he thought that the branch of 'the line
which had been before the Committee would have taken so short a
time, he would have been able to produce evidence on that point, but
the principal witness was at present under examination before
another Committee.

The CHAIRI4IAN wished to be certain that the evidence would be
ready to morrow if they did adjourn. _

. _ .
Mr. SMIRKS assured the Committee that it would.
After a short discussion, the Committee adjourned to twelve
O'clock to-morrow.

GROUP N.
CORNWALL RAILWAY.

At the sitting of the Committee, the case of the petitioner was
proceeded with.

Mr. R. T. Hal, a surveyor in Cornwall, some time an
assistant to Mr. Thomas, the petitioner. He said, in No-
vember last, he was occupied for some time, in conjunction with
Mr. Thomas, in surveying the central line, indicated on the map
by a red line. On that portion of the line, at Halgarven and west-
ward to Falmouth, there were no curves of less radius than
chains, and that there were only two of a radius of 30. The ge-
neral curves on this part of the line were about three quarters of a
mile. No roads from Halgarven to Falmouth were crossed on a
level.

Mr. Rowe said it was with much pleasure that he had to inform
the Committee that, after a consultation with his client, and after
considering the great body of important evidence which he had
offered for the last two days, it was not his intention to call any
additional witnesses, and he was prepared then to address the Com-
mittee against the preamble of the 13111. The Learned Gentleman
then addressed the Committee on behalf of the petitioner. Mr.
Thomas was an honest man. He might not be an engineer of the
old school, but that was no argument against his consistency, and
his opinion was as much entitled to consideration as that of Captain
Moorsom, who, as a matter of course, was most desirous to get his
scheme adopted by the Committee. He (Mr. Rowe) did not re-
present Mr. Thomas only, although he ostensibly appeared for that
gentleman, but he represented a great and important body of the
inhabitants of Cornwall, who considered that a central line would
offer far greater facilities than the coast line. He held that the
promoters of the Bill had obtained a favourable report from the
Board of Trade by false colouring, on the assumption that the
line would be worked by atmospheric traction, whereas
they had not sufficient money to construct such 0
line; and even for the construction of a_ double locomotion
their estimates were 300,0001. below the sum which would be
necessary. Captain Moorsom had stated that the crossing of the
Hamoaze could be effected in a minute, while Mr. Stevenson, Mr.
Rendell, and other scientific gentlemen whom he had called before
them, had shown that such an opinion was absurd, as the passage
could not be accomplished in less than half an hour, and that
they would rather go several miles round than cross the Hamoase
by means of a floating bridge. The electrical telegraph could not
be properly or safely laid down. Then the drawbridge over the
Penryn-creek, which was navigated by large ship=, would only be
four feet and a half high at high-water, and if the Admiralty did
not consent to the construction of the bridge, a dangerous pier,
projecting a considerable distance into the creek, was to be
constructed. Why, what could be greater obstacles to
the free passage of the shipping than such a bridge and such a pier ?
A line might have been constructed from Plymouth to Falmouth
iliamore
northern
offering
greater
those districts than the coast line could. He eulogised
the central line, and referred to the small obstacles
rod
accommodation
to the mines in
avoiding the Hamoaze alto-
gether,
which it would have to encounter in comparison with the proposed
lines that the gradients and curves on the one were moderate and
practicable, whilst on the other they were not only imprac.
ticable, but dangerous in, every sense—opinions substantiated
by the evidence of gentlemen well competent to juige—not
only of engineers, but of Members of Parliament, and persons of
high standing and influence in the county. He concluded by call.
ing upon the Committee to reject the preamble of the Bill, as its
adoption would, in a political, commercial, and social view, be most
injurious to the county of Cornwall.
Mr. Sergeant KIaTGLAKE said the real question was, whether
Cornwall was to have a railway or not, and he held that if the
proposed scheme were not carried out the county would not have a
railway at all. Looking to the south coast of Cornwall—to the
wants of the mining interests—to the wants of the inhabitants of
Liskeard, St. Austel, Truro —the line laid down by Captain
Mooreom, whom his Learned Friend had most unjustly calum-
niated, was the one which the inhabitants of Cornwall required.
No evidence on which they could depend had been adduced
to show that the unknown line advocated by Mr.
Thomas was practicable. No levels or sections had been
properly taken. Were the Committee satisfied, then, that suffi-
cient evidence had been adduced to prove that that line was a
better line than the one proposed? They had not had sufficient
evidence to show that that line could be properly constructed ; and
in Lis opinion it had been improperly intruded on the Com-
mittee. If they had not the gradients complained of on the
proposed line, they would be compelled to tunnel to a great extent,
and no line could be constructed on account of the expense; but in
a county like Cornwall—a county which undulated more than
many other counties—such gradients could not be avoided. Mr.
Stevenson's dictum with respect to the rate of speed
on the line was most exaggerated. Somehow or other
engineers were actuated by a strong feeling of hostility towards
each other, and were apt to exaggerate when giving evidence
before Committees. Mr. Stevenson was a most suspicions witness.
The Learned Counsel then referred to the report of the Board of
Trade to show that they had not been imposed upon, and had con-
sequently given a preference to the coast line over the central one. The
Board of Trade considered that the central line was impracticable
on account of its expense, that the gradients and curves on the
coast line were not objectionable for an atmospheric line, and that
with ordinary locomotive power they would not be dangerous ;
that on public grounds they could not report in favour of the
central, but saw no reason why they should not report in favour
of the coast line and recommend it for the sanction of Parliament.
It was true in the sections one gradient had been put down as 1 in
GO whilst it should have been lin 40. Upon that solitary fac this
Learned Friend had grounded the assertion that the favourable re-
port of the Board of Trade had been obtained by misrepresentation.
The other deep gradient was at the Penryn station, and could not
be dangerous, as the carriages, as a matter of couse, did not run at
the top of their speed, but were almost stationary. The other
steep gradient was on the Bodmin branch, and the objection there-
fore could not apply to the main line. Then the Hamoaze would
be crossed on a plan which would be perfectly safe. No deception
could have been practised by either Mr. Brunel or Captain Moor-
corn as it was a special provision in the agreement, between
the Great Western and the other companies who had agreed to
take shares to the amount of 250,000/. in the Company, that the
estimates should be made with a view to atmospheric or locomo-
tive traction. The estimates too were not fallacies. He con-
cluded by contending that the promoters had proved their car ;
i
that taking into consideration that no landowner opposed t, with
the exception of Mr. Thomas, whose opposition arose from hie
being interested in another line, he submitted, therefore, that
they must report in favour of the preamble.

to say that such was not the CAC. The Committee had purposely
absta nevi from the giving of any opinion at all ; and the publishing
of the advertsement in question was highly improper.
It wr.s here stated by Counsel that the arrangement suggested
yesterday to be come to between the Belfast Junction and the
Newry and Enniskillen was in ss, but in,t completed. The
adjournment of the Committee was therefore requested in order to
effect that object.

The Committee, in pursuance with this request, adjourned for an
hour.

On resuming, the result oh the negotiation was given in the fol-
lowing important agreement entered into by the competing Corn.
panies :—" The Belfast Junction Company agree by their counsel
to withdraw all opposition to the Newry line, upon condition that
the Newry and Enniskillen Company, by their counsel, consent to
the preamble of the Belfast Junction being forthwith reported as
passed, and to the Committee so reporting it.
" The Newry Company to be at liberty to proceed with their
Bill, and to take their line from Newry by Armagh and Clones, and
the Dundalk Company to be at liberty to proceed with
their Bill, and take their line as far as Clones, all
without opposition from the one Company to the other;
the best line from Clones to Enniskillen to be forthwith
selected by Sir John Rennie and Sir John M`Neil, and both Com-
panies to combine in constructing, and afterwards in working the
line from Enniskillen to Clones, on such terms as they may mu.
Wally agree upon, or the Board of Trade may settle if the parties
differ. The counsel for the three Companies to concur in re.
questing the approbation of the Committee on these Bills."
This agreement having been completed, the Committee pro-
ceeded to hear evidence in support of the
DUNDALK AND ENNISICXLLEN.

Several witnesses were then examined respecting the traffic on
the line, the points of whose evidence presented no material feature
worth recording ; at the close of which the Committee adjourned
till to-morrew at twelve o'clock, when the evidence will be resumed.