The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-20 00:00:00

THE SLN, LONDON, rriutiitsnAr MORNING, FEBRUARY 20, 145.

they had found one, and they might find another if they would
try. And what did the Irish 'Members expect in this matter?
How could they expect to be freed from this tax? He did, there-
fore, appeal to gentlemen opposite to extend this tax to Ireland..
The agriculture of the country could not be relieved but by
extending the tax to the realised capital of Ireland. The land
in Ireland was as fruitful and as valuable as any acres in the

Irish Member he most cordially approved of the financial mea-
sures proposed by the Government. Ile believed the proposed
reductions would improve the manufacturing interests of this
country, and enlarge the market of the Irish agriculturists,
who were in a great measure dependent on the English ma-
nufacturers.—(llear, hear, from Sir Robert Peel.) Ile
looked forward to the many gratifying results which he

by the report on the division, that they had not, to use a nau-
tical term one " bout ship" but had recorded their votes in
favour motion.—(Laughter.) He would say it was
on gro common justice that this motion had been in-
troduced to this House. The Hon. Member for Dungarvon
had appealed to the consideration of the House, and asked the
House to deal with the proposition in accordance
with the spirit of the Act of Union, by which it
would :appear that the Ilonourable Member contended
that if this tax were imposed, there would be a breach of faith
and good understanding; but he (Sir .1. Tyrrell) would con-
tend for it that there were very few Members of the Houe
who would take that view of this proposition. Upon a former
occasion, when M . Bankes made a similar proposition to that
House, he called upon the clerk at the table to read the seventh
clause of the Act of Union, and the argument then used by
that geutieman would have completely upset the arguments of
the Hon. Member for Dungarvon, and would not have left
him a leg to stand on.—( A laugh.) But the lion. Baronet
at the head of her Majesty's Government had said that it would
be unjust to impose the income-tax upon Ireland. Now, he
(Sir John Tyrrell) held in his hand a report of the sentiments
of the Hon. Baronet, uttered upon this subject in 1833, when
he said that Ireland should not be exempt from any such im-
post, as such a measure would be extren ely unjust.—(Hear,
hear.) He (Sir J. Tyrrell) was as much averse as any one
to any unjust taxation of Ireland ; but in the present pro-
position it was intended to deal only w;th the rich people of
that country.—( Hear, hear.) From the feeling that ap-
peared to exist in the liou,e upon this subject, he had no
hesitation in saying that those who now occupied seats on the
Treasury benches, as well as those on the other side, who
held commissions in the army, were too much in the habit of
regarding their places as family-seats, and all were too often
found on the same side of the House. Yes, he yrottld say
again, that Hon. Members on the Ministerial side were too
often to be found joining Hon. Members on the Opposition side
on the voluntary principle—(Laughter)—while those on the
Opposition side were to be equally often found supporting the
Right Hon. Baronet on the compulsory principle.—( Great
laughter.) lie had been led to understand that even now
there was a negotiation going on fur a conciliation measure
with Ireland, between the Noble Lord the Member for London
and some of the Opposition Members.—(Laughter.) Now, if
the papers were in a sufficiently forward state, he would move
that they be laid upon the table of the House.—(Laughter.)
ioeudn, t in pecuniary matters.—( Laughter.)
lie had heard much of justice to Ireland ; but he would say
that, if this proposition was not carried, there would not be
yhat was meant by the often-repeated
phrase of " Hereditary bondsmen don't know."--( Shouts
o
of laughter.) He was not for taxing the lower orders of the
jlufstthi ei
es
done
ee
not tthcaatr rc
Irish people ; but if the income-tax were imposed upon the
landlords of that country, he could not agree that the result
would not be an outbreak in that country, because those who
had to pay it were bound to keep the peace by the best passible
security—namely, the preservation of their own interests.—
( Hear, hear.) He had now nearly concluded ; but be-
fore he did so he hoped, before the close of this de-
bate, to hear some Honourable Member reply to
the unanswerable speech of the Hon. Member for Dungarvon.
—( Loud laughter.) There was to be a remission of taxes to
a large amount, in Ireland, on sugar and on glass ; and, there-
fore, if there were not an equivalent imposed, he could tell the
House that great discontent would be created, for the cnmmer-
cial interests of this country were crawlingly alive to such con-
duct.—( Loud laughter.)
Mr. WILLIAMS had listened with attention to the speech
of the Hon Member for Dungarvon, but he regretted to say he
had heard no arguments adduced in it which convinced him
that this tax should not be imposed on the landlords of Ireland.
He ( Mr. Williams) did think that any landlord in Ireland,
whether he had 1,000., or 10,0001, or 20,0001. a-year, should
pay this tax as well as the tradesmen in England, who had: only
15W. a-year profit by their trade. Now the proposition he
( a:r. Williams) would make was, that those persons in Ireland
who received their incomes out of the public money, should pay
this tax, as well as they did in England. He should like to
know why the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, who received about
2i),0001. a-year of the public money, should not pay this tax. He
would likewise wish to know w by the Chief Secretary of Ireland
did not pay this tax? That officer had 500/. a -year more than the
Secretary of State for the Home Department, and not half so
much to do, and yet he had not this tax to pay. Neither was
it paid by the judges of Ireland, who received an aggregate
sum of 150,0001. a-year of the public money. He had before him
documents by which to prove that in fifteen years, between 1821
and 1841, Ireland paid only one-twelfth of the taxes ; in fifteen
years, only one-thirteenth ; and in five yea's, only one-six-
teenth ; while in the year 1844, the amount of taxes paid by
Ireland did not exceed 4,097,0001., and England paid, in the
same year, 51,000,000 i. He thought that great injustice had
been done to Ireland; but he would contend fur it that in the
item of taxes that country had been most remarkably pro-
tected. It was well known that one-third of the Crown
patronage in this country had been bestowed on Ireland—
( Cries of " No, no")—and therefore, if the Right Hon.
Baronet did not give good reasons for not extending this tax
to Ireland, he ( Mr. Williams) would persevere in his motion.
There were many articles of import on which small duties
were levied, which cost so much in the collection that it was
not worth while to retain them, at the same time that the loss
of time and the vexation which the collection occasioned could
only be known to the importers.—( Hear, hear.) If the
Customs' duties on fifty articles were repealed, the sacrifice of
revenue would not be more than half a million.--( Hear, hear.)
'faking the cost of collection of the stamp duties, the income-
tax, the assessed taxes, and the window-tax, it amounted
only to 430,0001., and that was for the collection of
16,850,000/., or about one-fourth of the whole revenue. If
all the taxes were collected at the same rate, the cost would
be only 1,600,000/. for the collection of 59,000,000/., 93 that
a vast amount could be saved by raising the revenue from
other sources than the vexatious taxes that came under the
head of Customs and Excise. At the same time, he admitted
that no one could find fault with the reductions which the
Right Hon. Baronet had made, although it was to be wished
that he had made more, and chosen other articles. Now, he
must say that there was not in the who'e history of taxation an
instance of a burden so heavy imposed upon the same amount
of population as now pressed upon the people of Great Bri-
tain.—( Hear, hear.) We were now in the thirtieth
year of peace, and the taxation was as heavy as at the height at
the war. The Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir J. Graham)
had written a book—( A laugh)—in which he proved, that,
taking into account the state of the currency, although the
nominal amount of the taxation in the year 1813 (the most
expensive of the war), was 81,000,0001., it was re .lly equal
only to 52,000,000/. He could see no reason for the increase
of the naval expenditure, which was to be greater in this year
of profound peace than it was in 1841, when we had 26 ships
of the line at sea.—( Hear) He did not, however, object to
keeping the navy which was the best defence of the country,
hut he objected altogether to the proposed increase of the
army.; The average amount of the army in 10 years, when the
Whigs were in office (and they had enough to do with war in
China and other places on their hands), was 105,059, but now
in profound peace it was to be 129,0(h) men, with an increase
besides of 2,500 marines, and 10,000 armed pensioners.—
( Hear, hear.) He trusted that when the Right Hon. Baronet
came to the estimates he would be prepared either to satisfy
the House of a necessity for the increase, or to make a consider-
able reduction.—( Hear.) When the present amendment was
disposed of, he should move that the tax upon income he ex-
tended to salaries in Ireland.
Mr. ROSS would not at present go into a discussion of all
the questions which the Hon. Gentleman had introduced.
But he would say that his proposition for extending the income-
tax to Ireland had so much the appearance of justice that he
(Mr. Ross) might probably feel it his duty to vote
with the Honourable Gentleman if it came to a di-
vision.—( Hear.) As to the Hon. Member for Bath
he would only say that, if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
were placed in the situation of the Right Hon. Baronet, he
would not have ventured to bring forward his present proposi-
tion.—(" Hear, hear, from Sir R. Peel.) There were con-
siderations of policy which, in some
eases,
must weigh against
a proposition which had abstract justice in its favour.—( Hear.)
The present position of Ireland was so very peculiar, that the
income-tax could not be applied to that country, and he re-
gretted exceedingly the sentiments addressed by the lion.
Member for 'lath to the landlords of the sister kingdom. They
were at all times ready to subscribe to agricultural and medical
institutions for the relief of the deserving poor. He thought
then it would be injurious at this period to extend the income-
tax to Ireland, and he trusted that, hereafter, this debate
might lead Hon. Gentlemen to entertain sympathetic views
towards Ireland. He entreated them not to turn their hearts
against its rni•fortunes, but he felt assured that the debate
would not be closed without a better feeling being produced
towards that unhappy country. Every one knew the suffer-
ings it had lately undergone. It had been disturbed by poli-
tical comrnotions, and was it right, now that the public mind
was becoming soothed, to pass an Act which would disturb the
better feeling which was beginning to be engendered ovi th 6
other side of the channel towards this country.--(Cheers.)
Lord BERNARD said, connected as he was with Ireland
by birth and other ties, he could not quietly listen to the sen-
timents which had been expressed with regard to the landlords
of that country. Before, however, he proceeded to discuss that
question, he would take leave to refer to the opening part of
the speech of the lion: Member for Dungarvon. The Hon.
Gentleman had complained that Ireland was not fairly repre-
sented in the Legislature of the United Kingdom ; but he
could distinctly state that this was not the fact. The Hon. and
Learned Member
for Bath had charged the landlords of Ire-
land with desiring to shrink from sustaining their share of the
burdens which the exigencies of the times required to be im-
posed on the country. If there was a great financial scheme to
be carried —if measures were to be proposed from which it was
reasonable to anticipate most important benefits would result,
he was sure that the landlords of Ireland would not be found
shrinking from bearing their part of the national burden. But
the Right Hon. Baronet,when he bi ought forward the income-
tax, thought it was expedient that it should not be extended to
Ireland. What did the Hon. Member for B,th propose? He
proposed to do one of two things—he either proposed to tax
the real property of Ireland, or else he proposed to tax the
whole of the country. Now if it were merely the landed property
in Ireland which he proposed to tax, he would tell him that
the national exchequer derived an equivalent for the
income-tax in the stamp duty. But there was another
ground on which it was decided not to extend the
income-tax to Ireland three years ago. There was no
machinery in Ireland by which the tax could be collected. The
expense of its collection would swallow up the larger part of
the sum to be collected ; and he agreed with the Right Hon.
Baronet that the substitution of an equivalentl was more ad-
vantageous to the interests of the nation. n the reigns of
Richard 111. and Henry VIII. a tax
of four shillings in the
pound was imposed on the landed proprietors to prevent absen-
teeism. In 1775 the tax was reduced to two shillings in the
pound. But this all equally failed to bring
Hon. Baronet,
landed
in
proprietors to the country. But the Right
th
held
e out an induce-
not extending the income-tax to Ireland,
it ought to be
ment to those whose duty and Inclination
' .ster to the of
to reside upon the property, and to minister
to theirwants
those whom Providence had committed
ntended to restrict the tax
If the Hon. and Learned Member
to the landlords of Ireland, how little would it produce to the
revenue ! For was it not notorious that a great proportion of
in mortgages, and in
the rental of Ireland was paid away
estates by their re-
ducingances-
incumbrances imposed upon thethese
mortgages and in-
tors ? Was it not equally true that
in England, who
cumbrances were paid to persons residinghis
countriy ? He did
paid the income-tax out of them in t
the income-tax to Ireland,
be-
lieve, then, if they were to extend
t proceeds of the stamp
Learned Gentleman meant to
duty. But if the Hon. and
Ireland
say that the tax was to be extended throughout
nsider what had been the
gene-
rally, he would urge upon him to co
to the present time.
peculiar position of that country up
twelve months ago ? He
What was the state of that country
larg when he stated that e
spoke from personal experience
masses were in the habit of being col ected ( H ear, , hear, from
Sir R. Peel)—for the purpose of intimidating the Govern-
ment. It must be remembered, also, that at this time dread-
ful and simultaneous fires occurred, which were accompanied
by the most ominous silence amongst all parties, so as to leave ao
doubt who were the originators of them. When he looked at
these circumstances, and remembered that the judicious comae
and the firmness evinced by her Majesty's Government in that_o
Ireland
country had restored peace, tranquillity, anti happiness, h
thought it unwise to extend a burden to which
would
be productive of no practical gcool. He spoke from personal
experience, and he could assure the house that it would be
an unwise step to adopt the amendment of the Hon. and
Learned Member. Men who a short timo ago were engaged
in organising large bodies of men, for the purpose of con-
spiracy, were now laying out their money in improving their
farms, and devoting themselves with no secondlhen that was the
object
to the im-
proving the condition' of tha country. When
case, was it within the pale of political wisdom to come forward
and create another source of discord in the country ? As an

county of Somerset. What did the manufacturers say to
'this? Why they were delighted with the seheme
of the Right Honourable Baronet. It was said he
relieved the springs of industry—why, what was the fact?
:Manchester was bribed—Glasgow was bribed—and so were
Newcastle and Sunderland. They said they could not compete
with foreign countries unless their labourers worked certain
hours. if manufacturers were honest in their measures to aid
the labouring population, they would vote with him in endea-
vouring to put this tax upon the rich landlords of Ireland.
They were beyond any appeal he could make ; if he were a
money-lender he might be able to appeal to them, but not
dealing in that commodity he could not reach their
understandings. But he was about to appeal to those who
professed to represent the Irish people. What, did
not the Right Honourable Baronet say all his phrases
were significant, and he watched him always, not to find, like
the Hon. Baronet, that he was a difficult bird on whose tail
to put salt.—(Laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet had put
a stamp duty on Ireland, but he asked him to tax the land of
Ireland. The Right Hon. Baronet taxed the capital engaged
in the employment of labour in Ireland. The stamp duty was a
tax on the transfer of all sorts of property, and was almost
entirely paid by the middle class of that country, arid a large
portion of it tell on both the middling and labouring population.
Now the lion. and Learned Member for Dungarvon had hinted
to hint, the other evening, that he should take advantage of the
adjournment of this debate to read Burke's speech on the con-
ciliation of America. Now, what was in the lion. and Learned
Gentleman's mind when he reminded him of America? Why,
revolution ! That the English Government might be fright-
ened into an unjust tax, because the people of Ireland were in
such a turbulent state that they could not put a just tax upon them.
That was the intrepretation of considering the speech of Mr.
Burke, but he was sure the Right lion. Gentleman could not
have had this notion in his mind. The grand argument of
that speech was, that America was not politically represented.
Did the Right Hon. Gentleman mean to say that Ireland was
not politically represented?
An HoN. MEMBER—Not fully.
Air. ROEBUCK—Wait a minute! They had given Ire-
land some Members. Where were they now ?—(Cheers.)
What was the use of giving them any more if those
they had already given them were of no use to them ?
They ran from their posts—they deserted them like a sentinel
placed in a dangerous situation, who could not keep his heart
up to the difficulty of his position, threw down his musket.
turned tail and ran away.—( Hear, hear.) They had deserted
the ground on which the battle of the people of Ireland must be
fought.—(Cheers.) He did not accuse the leading
Irish Member upon that occasion—he did not mean
him individually, but the whole of his followers, who,
like him, had run away. They had done so because in that
House they felt they were unable, from their own personal in-
significance, to gain the attention of Honourable Ale,nbers.
That he took to be the rationale of Conciliation-hall. He hoped
the lion. Member would abstain, after that night, from plead-
ing the unequal representation of Ireland as any justification
for the existence of unequal taxation between the two coun-
tries. He would not impose any injustice upon any one. lie
would be the last person to sanction an act of injustice, but he
wanted the Irish Members to show to him the injustice of his
proposal.—( Hear, hear.) If they pointed to the stamp duty,
he would say change it, because it was a tax which fell upon
the actual capital of the country. He said, then, charge it by
all means, and place it upon the landlords of Ireland.—( Hear,
hear.) Mark how they had been dealt with. The power of
governing the country had been conceded to them. Within
the last few years a large portion of the tithes of the country
had been given to them, and every man who bought an estate
now bought with it some of the tithes of the country. Why
should they not be taxed, then, in the same way as the
landlords and hard-working citizens of England?--(Hear. )
rhe commercial interests in that House were asked to sanc-
tion this impost by the small ' bribe" (he might as well call
it, as it was, that word) offered them, while they were also
called upon to bear with the extra tax upon income,
in order to relieve the landlords of Ireland.
Now, mark well, his point was not with any class
in Ireland, but the untaxed landlords of that country.
I Irish landlord paid no assessed taxes ; he
came now to this country—to this city, and brought
his horses and carriages, and lived here in lodgings,
and yet he was not called on to pay taxes for them ; while if
he (Mr. Roebuck) wished to ease his infirmities by keeping a
horse he should pay taxes for it.—( Laughter.) The Right
Hon. Gentleman near him (addressing Mr. Sheil) might
keep his three horses and a carriage here if he chose, and
live in lodgings, and pay no taxes for them, while he
(Mr. Roebuck), if he kept but one horse, down came
the tax-gatherer. (Loud laughter.) Those Irish
landlords, those lords of thousands, came to London, travelled
to Paris—Brussels—the Nile, came back again, lived here,
but—no taxes—(Laughter)--while if he (Air. Roebuck) left
his home and took a little recreation elsewhere, there was his
house ready to be seized by the iron grasp of the never.
failing tax-gatherer, whether he (Mr. Robuck) was there
or not.—(Laughter.) Then let the House losk at the la-
bours of the professional man of this country, who, though his
earnings were the result of nights of hard toil, yet had to
pay a tax upon income.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member
concluded by proposing his amendment, which was to the effect
that the property-tax be extended to Irelend.
Mr. SHELL said he would commence by saying to the
lion. Member who had just sat down, that though he had
done him the honour of paying him a compliment in the
allusion he had made, he regretted he could
not reciprocate the compliment.—(Cries of "Hear, hear.")
His lion. Friend had adverted to the absence of many Irish re-
presentatives from the United Parliament. Now, he (Mr.
Sheil) felt great sympathy with his absent friends, although
lie had not thought it judicious or consistent with his duty to
his own constituents to follow their example.—( Loud cheers. )
At the same time he should be very sorry to impugn their mo-
tives, for their case was this, that Ireland was not adequately
represented. 'the case they made was, that the county of
Cork returned only five Members, whereas the principalities
of Wales, with a smaller population, returned thirty-three
Members. Many large towns had no representatives at all,
whereas every insignificant town in England, with 2.000 inha-
bitants, returned two Members. They said that they had not
the benefit of English institutions. But his Hon. Friend
( Mr. Roebuck) was willing to give them the benefit of such
English institutions as the same Church, the same income-
tax, but not the same registration or representation. They
sail that they had tried for fourteen years since the Reform
13 11, to obtain ju,tice.—(llear, hear.) They despaired of
success. 'they were overwhelmed by the majority of English
and Scotch Members, and they thought it better to try the
pressure out of doors.—( Cheers.) Nut by force, but by a
gentle kind of violence.—(Cheers and laughter.) They
thought that by these means, more effectually than by their
presence in Parliament, they might induce that power and the
Government] to give them the benefit of English institutions.
—( Hear, hear.) The lion. Member for Kendal wished the
income-tax to be perpetuated, and the Hon. Member for Bath
ished it to be infinite—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—so that
between them they would have it a divioc tax.—( Laughter. )
He ( Mr. Sheil) did venture, between Tuesday morning and
Wednesday evening, to refer to the speech of the Hon. Member
fur Bath, and he did think that that speech contained some
most admirable admonitions. That speech was said to be
imbued with some of the spirit of a distinguished individual
formerly a Member of that House, and he did believe that, on a
review of the efforts of that great man, that this to which his ob-
servation had been directed was the most important, if not the
very best. It exhibited that great man in all the fulness of his
po,ser, as comprehensive and sound in judgment as he was
bright in imagination and brilliant in idea. If the Hon. Mem-
ber had drawn from such a source, he had drawn with advan-
tage ; and he did suspect that he observed something of the
spirit of his original in those forcible addresses which he had
heard in that House when the Hon. Member was warning the
Government of the day not to interefere with the rights of the
colonies, and when in estimating their supplies he emphatically
coejured them not for a moment to attempt to lay hands on the
revenues of Canada. Now, what was the course the Hon.
Member was now pursuing? He was attempting to induce
the Government to violate the very principle of which he him-
self hail, but a few years ago, been such an able
advocate. No such plan as the Hon. Member
for Bath had recommended had ever been adopted.
For when the income-tax had first been laid onby Mr. Pitt, in
1791, which was before the union, ro attempt had been made
to extend the impost to Ireland. The income-tax was re-
pealed in 1803, at the end of the war. The emergency which
occasioned it had passed away. It was always considered a
war tax—a tax to be imposed on the arising of extraordinary
necessity, and reasons of emergency alone could justify it. On
the renewal of the war in 1804 it was again imposed, but even
then, notwithstanding all the outlay of this country, it was not
extended to Ireland. Neither Lord Sidmouth, nor Mr.
Pitt, nor Mr. Percival, nor Lord Liverpool, had ever thought
of extending the income-tax to Ireland, and he (Mr. Sheil)
did doubt whether after these experiments and occasions—
extreme occasions—any attempt to extend such a measure to
Ireland could be made of any profitable avail, and he
did think that it would be a little, as well as an unwise at-
tempt, to draw on the confined resources of Ireland to swell
the g Aden Vactolus of British opulence.—( Hear, hear. )
It was true that the revenues of Ireland exceeded the legitimate
expenses of that country ; it did not exceed the debt of Ire-
land, but that debt was created by its connexion with this
country. It was hard, after suffering all that had been cast
upon them by this country, they should put upon them the in-
come-tax. The ground and quit rents of Ireland had been
spent upon Windsor Castle and on the improvement of Lon-
don. —( lean ) More than a million had been expended of
those rents in that way. The Right Hon. Baronet, as he un-
derstood, intended to extend the means of Catholic education
in Ireland ; could not, he would ask them, the ground
and quit rents of Ireland be applied to that purpose? He
thought to place an income-tax on the people of Ireland would
be unjust and impolitic. If they were to extend the income-
tax to Ireland the lion. Member for Donegal would at once
join the repealers.—( Laughter.) He would at once take the
Grey Porter view of it, and he would become a sympathiser
with the Concilliation-hall. In 1782 the Irish extorted the
independence of their Parliament from this country, and there
were men who thought before they died to see that inde-
pendence restored again.—( Cries of " Hear," and cheers.)
Before he sat down—which he should very soon do—he should
be able to show that, without imposing the income-tax on Ire-
land, they might raise a large amount of revenue. Saving was
equivalent to gain.—( Hear, hear.) He was surprised his Hon.
Friend, the Member for Montrose, the other night, should have
forgotten his usual topics ; under the influence of the eloquence
of the Right lion. Baronet, he seemed even to forget himself.
Ile did not say a word about saving the revenue, or economy,
or the reductions that might he made in the army in Ireland
under a better system of government. His Hon. Friend had
often pointed out how two thousand men were enough for
Scotland, and the evil of keeping up so large a force in Ire-
land. But on that occasion his Hon. Friend, who was gene-
rally as watchful as the dragon that kept guard over the Golden
Fleece, was lulled to sleep by the persuasive eloquence of the
Right lion. Baronet, and yielded to the enchantments of that
fascinating financier !—(Great laughter.) But his Hon.
Friend was quite right in the positions he had so often laid
down. They could, by conferring good government on Ire-
land, effect an essential saving. If they would adapt their in-
stitutions to Ireland, instead of adapting Ireland to their insti-
tutions—( Hear, hear)—the phrase was an antithesis, but it
was fall of truth—if they would adapt their institutions to Ire-
land, instead of adapting Ireland to their institutions—they
would make money of them. Peace was a great happiness;
let them not inflict merely a temporary tranquillity on that coun-
try ; let them make it a perpetual peace.—(Cheers.) Peace
would make it a larger contributor to their revenue. Peace
would increase its import duties—peace would make it consume
more sugar and coffee—peace would enable it to take more
British manufactures—peace Would throw open a vast field of
enterprise—and its the prosperity of Irelandl they would for all
their munificence be usuriously repaid.—(Loud cheering.)
Sir J. T YRRELL, after congratulating the House on the
:liiierianyotofineloqhuisenocvren ptheeyrshaandehaehaibrditthaatn eevaenaminpgl,esaoidf,
agri-
cultural cultural distress—( Immense laughter)—yet he hoped it
would be conceded to him that distress was in the habit of
meeting with " strange bedfellows."—(Renewed laughter.)
lie was aware that many Gentlemen in that House were not
inclined to support any proposition coming from the Hon. Mem-
ber opposite, by reason of his entertaining extreme opinions
on certain political subjects; but he ( Sir J. Tyrrell) now trusted
to the courage of his'agricultural friends around him—( A laugh )
—that they would pluck up their courage—(Laughter)—and
tha, he would see by the announcement in to-morrow's papers,

thought the reduction in the duty of cotton would produce.
So far as Ireland was concerned, a greater loon could not be
given, for it would encourage their manufactures ; and when
they considered the water power, and the magnificent rivers of
Ireland, might they not hope, at some future time, the com-
merce of t Ise country would be increased. The western part
of Ireland was peculiarly adapted for manufacturing purposes;
but now they were compelled to go to Liverpool for their cotton.
He hoped, however, to see the time when ships direct from the
States of America would he found landing their cargoes on the
coast of Ireland. Let the House remember the agricultural
advantages of Ireland. Ile could assure those Hon. Gentle-
men who talked so much of the abstract principles of free trade,
• .

. .
that Ireland would posse s the means of affording this country
ample and sufficient food, if they would only assi.t her in de-
ssnloping the resources of the country. if th y would only int-
prove her situation, he was sure that, at no distant day, she
would be able to minister to the wants of the increasing popu-

.
lation of England. It was his firm conviction that she would
yet be the means of saving this country from being humbled in
the dust to ask for food from a foreign nation.—( Cheers. )
Mr. BELLEW concurred in the latter sentiments of the
Noble Lord, for he believed the resources of Ireland had never
been sufficiently developed. He thought it was in the power
her Majesty's Government to make her a flourishing and
prosperous country.—( Hear, bear.) Be'ore the income-tax
could be extended to Ireland there were two things to be con-
sidered—first, that there was an easy mode of collecting it ;
and secondly, that the country was in a prosperous condition,
both as regarded agriculture and manuractures. But Ireland
was more of an agricultural thaw a manufacturing country, arid
they must recollect that only one million of the tax collected in
England was contributed by the landed interest. Now how
strongly did this show the inexpediency of extending this tax to
Ireland, where two-th rds of the population were engaged in agri-
culture. Before the union the taxation of Ireland had been three
millions. But what was the fact between that time—the year
Isol—and 1807, the taxation of Ireland had been increased by
mere than 500,0001. a year, and this he thought a sufficient
answer to those Hon. Gentlemen who thought that a tax of
this nature should be imposed on that country. In putting to
them this statement, he felt that it was a sufficient ground for
his opr.osition to the tax. While such claims were made on
property, and while Ireland became in this way involved in
the debts of Great Britain in an unequal degree, considering
her previous position, was it fair that a property-tax should
now be imposed on the country ? He ( Mr. Bellew) asked
Euglish gentlemen whether it was right to impose taxes on
Ireland when so little c imperatively had been taken away from
the taxes imposed upon her ? Much had been said respecting
the lighter burdens imposed upon Ireland, as if that were a
coerce of encouragement for absentees.—( Hear, hear.) But
he felt assured that all those who were intimate with the ac-

tual position of that country, would be aware that no such in-
ference could fairly be drawn, and he did not think that the
Hon. and Learned Member for Bath had exercised a wise
discretion in now presaing this tax on the country, on which
so much had already been imposed which she was not entitled
to bear.

Mr. NEWDIG ATE said that he would not trespass long
upon the House, and that he would not have trespassed upon
them at all, were it not that he did not think that the Hon.
Gentlemen with whom he acted ought tamely to submit to the
calumnies which had been heaped upon them by the Hon.
hlember for Bath. Calumnies which he felt for himself indeed
—and he did not doubt but other Members on his side of the
House felt the same—were as gross as they were groundless
and mistimed, foul, and invidious, and unjustifiable.—(Loud
cries of " Hear, hear," " Order," " Chair," during which the
Hon. Member attempted for a short time to proceed.)
Mr. C. BULLER said that the use of such an expression as

foul calumnies was clearly contrary to the usage of the House
and such as could not be tolerated when used by one Member
towards another, and he protested against it.
Mr. GREENE said that the Hon. Member was certainly
out of order, in the use of the expressions which he had just ap-
plied to the speech of the Hon. Member for Bath.
Mr. NEWDIGATE begged to apologise to the House for
the words which had just fallen from him, but the expressions
of the Hon. Member for Bath had been so strong, that he
felt bound to meet them with terms equally strong. Con-
nected as he was with the county with which :the Right
Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government was so largely
concerned, he would have been glad to hear his interpreta-
tion of the question which the Hon. Member for Bath had
brought forward, and the position which he took up. He did
think that if a property-tax we .e to be imposed upon Ireland,
it would be one way of reaching the absentees from that
country. But this he thought would be a miserable policy,
and if the Honourable Member for Bath attempted in this
way to enlist the Members with whom he acted, he believed he
would be disappointed, and if he wished, like the Knight of La
Mancha, to attack windmills, he (Mr. Newdigate) thought
that he could not have taken a more effective course for se-
curing his object.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.)
Mr. MUNTZ said, that nothing had been said on this part
of the subject by which Hon. Members should be influern ed.
When he saw that gentlemen connected with Ireland could go
there and enjoy the great remission of taxes which was en-
joyed by the people of that country, and then give nothing for
it, he did think that there was no sufficient argument. in the
replies to what had been alleged by the Hon. Member for
Bath, and ‘shen he saw that those gentlemen could go and
take such large sums from that country, and spend them in
various parts of Europe, he felt assured, that next to a tax on
absenteeism an imposition on realised property was the next
best tax.
Mr. ROEBUCK said the best argument which could pos-
sibly be adduced of correctness in debate was the loss of one's
temper.—(" Oh, oh," and disapprobaticn.)
Sir 11. BARRON said that he felt assured that the House
would feel that the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath had
totally failed in establishing his results. Bef ire he entered
upon the main question, he would beg to show the mistake into
which the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath had fallen,
with respect to the attendance of Irish Members in that House.
He would beg to assure the Hon. and Learned Member, that
when he imputed the absence of those Members to any other
than the real cause, that he evinced only gross and palpable
ignorance of the characters of those whom he maligned, and
that he used expressions in their absence which he would not
dare to utter if those gentlemen were present ; and he defied
that Hon. Member to repeat the expressions which he h-id
used, when those Hon. Gentlemen were present.—( Loud cries
of " Hear, hear," " Order, order," " Chair, chair."
The CH AIRMAN interposed, and said that the Hon. Mem-
ber was out of order.
Sir 11. BARRON said, that what the Hon. and Learned
Member said with respect to those Irish Members who were
absent was incorrect. But he would now come to the
facts; and in giving those facts, he would not depend
upon any opinion of his own, on the knowledge
of this or that man, either in or out, of the House, but upon
returns laid, by order of a Select. Committee appointed for the
purpose, on the table of that House. Before 180 I—before the
union with this country took place—the Funded Debt of Eng-
land was 450,000,0001., and, in the year 1816, this debt had
increased to 764,000,000/. The Irish Debt at the time he
first mentioned was only 28,000,0001., but, in 1816, this Debt
had accumulated to 118,000,000/. The Debt of Great Bri-
tain had not been doubled in that time, while that of Ireland
had absolutely quadrupled within the same period. Now, in
return for this burden, what benefits had been conferred upon
Ireland in the way of taxation? Why, between 1816 and
1842, as much as 40,000,000/. of annual taxation had been re-
mitted to England; while, in Ireland, the whole amount of
relief had been only 2,000,000/., or hardly one-twentieth
part of the remission of taxes which had been made to this
country. At the time the union took place, the agreement
entered into was, that Ireland should bear two-seven-
teenths of the whole taxation of the Empire. But
what had been the case? Had this agreement been
adhered to ? No, the amount actually imposed was
2,000,000/. of Ireland, for 15,000,000/. for Great Britain.
Mr. Foster, a man of the highest attainments, and who was
speaker of the Irish House of Commons, and alerwards judge
of that country, loudly appealed against the injustice, but in
vain. He knew something of the state of Ireland, and this
was the deliberate opinion •f one whose word was to be de-
pended on, and not of one perfectly ignorant of the subject on
which he professed to speak.—( Hear, hear.) On a reference
to Hansard's Debates he found that the taxation of Ireland
which had been 440,000/. was increased in 1810 to 4,200,000/.
and in 1816 to 5,760,000/. Another authority to whom he
would refer was Lord Fitzgerald. No one who knew him
( Sir H. Barrow) would suspect him of any strong political bias
for that nobleman, and he might, therefore, assume that in
citing him as an authority he was citing one on whom
all might depend for evidence on the matter in
hand. He would refer to a letter of that nobleman,
which had been written to Mr. Foster in 1816.
That Noble Lord then stated that the people of Ireland paid
45 000,000/. of taxes mare than she contracted to pay at the
time of the union; and yet it was said she was not taxed
enough ; that the income-tax ought to be placed upon her, as
it was the only panacea for all the ills of Ireland. He was
confident that every gentleman in the House who understood
the question would vote against the proposition of the Hon.
Member for Bath.—( Hear, hear.) Ile thought there was in
the condition of Ireland that which justified any one in stating
that the income-tax, as it respected Ireland, was a most im-
politic and unjust tax. If they had not laid on a shilling of
taxation on Ireland they would, in his opinion, have done no
more than their duty.—( Hear, hear.) Ireland required im-
provement, for by withdrawing the Parliament from her, they
had withdrawn a great number of rich landlords, their con-
nexions and friends.—( Dear, hear.) It was the duty of
England to make many sacrifices in order to improve the con-
dition of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) At the present moment Ire-
land was over-taxed; there was not a country in
Europe with her resources which was so heavily
taxed as Ireland. The landlords of Ireland had been
greatly injured by the alterations that had taken place in the
tithes, added to which there was a strong dissatisfaction at the.
present moment at the state of Ireland; and he trusted that
the time was not far distant when all party differences would
be laid aside, and Ireland would again become happy and free.
Ireland could be governed by the heart easier perhaps than it
could by the sword.—( Hear, hear.) Ireland had been too
great!) taxed.—( [[ear, hear.) It was true that the Govern-
ment had now found that out, and were about to increase the
grant for education. They had also sent Commissioners to
inquire into the state of land in that country, but it would have
been much better if they had done it sooner.—( Hear, hear.)
Colonel CONOLLY thought if anything was calculated to
injure Ireland it was the proposition of the Hon. Member for
Bath.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was
impossible, holding the situation he did, that he should permit
this question to come to a decision without stating his opinion
with respect to it. Whatever credit he should be inclined to
give the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had brought the
matter forward on many occasions, he could not give him
credit for much skill, or the manner in which he had
brought a subject forward that would create the greatest dissa-
tisfaction in Ireland, and the most disastrous consequences,
perhaps endangering the peace of the country itself.—( Hear,
hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had expressed himself strongly
with respect to the absence of many of the Irish Members from
that House during the discussion on that subject. He would
give no opinion with respect to that, but he thought it never
could be said that the British House of Commons would, in
consequence of that absence, neglect the interests of that
country. lie was satisfied that that night they woul l prove
to the people of Ireland, and those who had absented them-
selves from the house, that the presence of the Irish Members
was not necessary to enforce the House to do justice to the
people of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He now came to the imme-
diate subject before the House, namely, whether it was
expedient that they should propose an income-tax
on real property in I reland.—( [fear, Hear.) In im-
posing all taxes, they must be guided by the condition
and circumstances of each country, or they might place on one
a tax that, though it appeared to be equal, would be, is reality,
very unequal and very unjust. In 1842, when he proposed the
income-tax for England, he had directed his inquiries to the
subject of an income-tax in Ireland. The result of that in-
quiry WP9 that, though they might impose a tax that would
prove a neavy burden, yet the returns to the Exchequer would
be little, if anything, more than at present. In England they
had long been subject to a heavy load of taxation.—(" Hear,
hear," and laughter.) They had been accustomed to raise a
large amount of revenue, partly by direct and partly by in-
direct taxation, and throughout this country they
.had esta-
blished a machinery for collecting the land tax, the assessed
taxes, and others, that had never been imposed upon Ireland.
Therefore we could here collect a greater amount of revenue,

at a much smaller expense, than they could hope to do in Ire-
land. where all the machinery of collection would have to be
established. But tot being able to impose the income-
tax on Ireland, he had made an addiction to the
stamp duties in that country, bringing them up to the same
amount as that paid in England.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon,
and Learned Membet for Bath had proposed that the tax should
be confined to real and landed property in Ireland, and he had at
the same time told the House that that property was for the
most part very much burdened, and that the debts on it were
generally held by persons in this country. He would see, there-
fore, that the amount of revenue to be derived from Ireland
would on this account be considerably diminished. The Hen.
Member for Coventry had proposed to extend the income-tax
to the Government officers in Ireland, but the wording of the

amendment of the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath ex-

pressly excluded those persons from the operation of the tax.—
( Hear, hear.) The Hon. member for Coventry should also
remember that the officers employed in Ireland were paid by
Ireland, and if they had exempted that country generally from
the operation of a tax, he thought there would be no justice
whatever in selecting one particular class, and fixing it on them,
because they were more obnoxious to the tax or more helpless
than any other class of the community. This was not an
occasion on which he could follow the Honourable Member

for Coventry through all the remarks he had made
on the estimates; they would shortly come before the House in
detail, and he should then be prepared to prove to the Hon.
Gentleman that they mere framed with a due regard to eco-
nomy and with a due consideration to the permanent interests
of the country. There were other Lion. Gentlemen who had
spoken during the evenini, who hod alluded to various political
considerations, which they thought re, dered it inadvisable to
impose the income tax on Ireland. Into those considerations
he did not think it necessary to enter. Having established the
position that, as a tax, it would not be productive, he thought
it unnecessary to enter into any other reasons for not imposing
It. With these observation he should leave the question in the
hands of the House, trusting that the House, in the absence of
a large portion of the Irish Members, would prove that Eng-
lishmen do not desire to impose burdens on them, but that their
cause would be effectually fought by the English Members
whenever Irish interests were concerned.
Mr. HUME said it appeared to him the debate had taken a
turn that it ought not to have done, from an erroneous view of
what they were called on to consider. He thought the income-
tax an odious one ; but as the Right Hon. Baronet stated that
it was to be a temporary one, he should not wish
to make any alteration in it as regarded Ire •
land. But he thought the Honourable and Learned
Member for Bath had been misunderstood. He denied that
the income-tax would be an injustice to Ireland, as it would
only fall on those who could afford to pay it ; and it should be
remembered that Ireland would have a fair share in all the
benefits arising from the present remission of taxation. He
therefore thought it would be but fair that she should bear a
part of the burdens which enabled the Government to make
them. The increase in the stamp-duty paid by Ireland was
only 229,000/. on a revenue of 454,000/ derived from
that source. This was all the equivalent that Ireland paid for
a burden of five millions borne by England. In dwelling on
the injustice and hardship that would be done to Ireland by
imposing this tax on it, the last speaker had really made a
mountain of a mole-hill—and he was really quite surprised to
hear him. Let Ireland, if she was to have her share of the
remission of taxation, bear her fair share of the burdens also.
Direct property had not borne a sufficient portion of that
taxation ; for the last fifty years the middle and lower classes
had paid no less than seventy-four per cent. of the whole
amount of the taxation of the kingdom. England paid the
tax because it was imposed by the Government, and the
Government imposed it with very little consideration ; and
why ? because those who did it, and who managed the affairs
of the country, suffered very little from the imposition.—
( Hear, hear.) However, as this proposition of the Hen.
Member for Bath would cause an entire change in the taxati in
of England, which would very much benefit the country, the
sooner it was made the better.—( Hear, hear.) He would
ask why should not the House call upon Ireland
to contribute her portion to this tax ? The change
which the imposition of it would cause would be
such as had not taken place in this country for the last forty
years. It would have the effect of giving employment to thou-
sands, and benefit Ireland in a thousand ways, which he ceuld
not now detail. Nothing could be taore easy than to bring
into operation the machinery for the collection of the tax in
Ireland ; but, if it should not be imposed, and that other taxes
should be remitted in that country, the result would be that
the tax would be imposed on the bee instead of the honey, and
eventually the hive would be destroyed. He would tell the
people of Ireland, that if they claimed equal rights with Eng-
land, they should bear an equal share of the public burdens.—
( Hear, hear.) He should like to see the property of that
country fairly taxed, if the owners of it claimed equal rights with
Englishmen ; but, if that tax should be imposed, that was no
reason why such threats, as he had heard to-night, of murder,
and rebellion, and fire, and all that, should be held out.—
( Laughter.) But, putting all this aside, le would say that
Ireland should be made to hear a full and fair proportion of the
taxes, and then let her call for equal privileges. —( Hear, and a
laugh.) The income-tax, if extended to Ireland, would not
be felt as heavily as was imagined, for there were very few
farmers in that country who paid 3001. a year, and, therefore,
all the burden of the tax would fall on the landlord ; and with
regard to those persons in Ireland who derived the 'r incomes
from public offices, he would like to know why they should not
pay this tax ?—( Hear, hear.) For these reasons he would
support the to tion.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said he felt bound to declare that he
gave the Hon. Member who had just sat down the fullest
er, dit for an unusual degree of candour.—(Laughter.) It
was most important to the Hon. Member's constituents that
they should understand the consistency, integrity, and good
sense, which characterised the statement of the Hon. Member
in accounting for the vote he was about to give upon this ques-
tion.—( Renewed laughter.) The Hon. Member had said, in
his speech, that if it had not been for the " foolish speech" of
an Hon. Member at this aide of the House—(Laughter)—he
would not have come to this conclusion.—(Laughter.) So that
this side of the House had to say they felt indebted
to an indiscreet speech—(Laughter)—for the proposition
of the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) to make a total change
in the system of taxation now in exercise in this country.—
(Laughter.) Now, was it possible that such a change could
have taken place in the sentiments of a gentleman who, for the
last forty years, during which he had a seat in that House,
had opposed every measure of a financial nature that had been
brought forward.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) But here let
him ( Sir 11. Peel) say that, during those forty year 3, he
readily admitted the great services that that Hon. Member had
don, his country, although he hail never yet given him a vote
—( Hear, hear, and laughter. ) However, he should say, he
had almost anticipated the result of the Hon. Member's exer-
cise of his great judgment and perspicuity en this proposition,
for he felt assured that he would upon this occasion give an
honest vote.—( Laughter.) It should be admitted that, for
the last forty years, the Hon. Member had paid the closest at-
tention to matters of finance, and always opposed what he con-
ceived to be unnecessary expenditure ; but the Hon. Mem-
ber having this night declared that it was in consequence of a
fiialish speech from this side of the House that he would advo.
cate increased taxation, he (Sir R. Peel) had been left com-
pletely at a loss what to say.---( Great laughter.) He ( Sir R.
Peel) almost foresaw what the Hon. Member would have said
about lowering the interest of money, and all that, but he should
confess he was hardly prepared to hear that the Hon. Member
would advocate increased taxation, because of an Hon. Member
at that side of the House having delivered himself of a foolish
speech.—(Great laughter.) In reference to the Hon. Member
who had delivered that " foolish speech"—( Laughter)—let
him say that lie most heartily congratulated that Hon. Gentle-
man upon that most felicitous speech—(Laughter)—for he (Sir
lt. Peel) should say that he did think that a higher compli-
ment could not be paid any Member of the House than that
the whole system of the taxation of the country was proposed
to be altered because of the delivery of that speech.
(Here the whole House burst into a general and loud fit of
laughter, owing as much to the humorous tone of the Hon.
Baronet's delivery, as to the mock gravity of his manner, while
he turned round and bowed to the Hon. Member for Done-
gall. ) But to be serious, let the House consider what was the
meaning of the speech of the Hon. Member. He ( Sir II
Peel) was ready to admit that justice would require that this
impost should be extended to Ireland—( Hear, hear)—and in
the year 1841, when this tax was proposed to be imposed upon
England, her Majesty's Government did not decide that it
should not be extended to Ireland, until they had maturely
considered the subject, and had found by calculation that the
expenses of creating the machinery for the collection of it
would not at all warrant such a step.—( Hear, hear.) And
they had also !mind that the increased spirit duty, and -stamp-
duty upon Ireland, would prove more productive than the pro-
perty-tax possibly could.—( Hear, hear.) Therefore the Go-
vernment concluded that it would be better to require an
equivalent from Ireland on account of other taxes than impose
the one in question.--( Hear, hear.) Let Hon. Members re-
collect that no Minister of the Crown that he could call to
mind, had proposed the imposition of this tax upon Ireland, not
because Ireland should be peculiarly favoured at the expense of
England, but because local causes and difficulties existed in
that country that rendered the levy of it impossible without
incurring an expenditure greater than the income.—( Hear )
But on looking at the immediate effect which would arise from
the imposition of the income-tax and the removal of other
taxes he found that, comparing the condition of Ireland with
that of Great Britain, Ireland would not be dealt justly with.—
( Hear, hear.) Look at the facts. By the repeal of the cotton
duty, the English manufacturer was benefited to the amount
of 700,000/. a-year, whilst in Ireland the duty was no more than
114,000/.—( Hear, hear.) Certainly it was to be taken into
consideration that most of the cotton wed in Ireland paid the
duty in Liverpool. But he hoped to see the day when cotton
would be imported into Cork, and Ireland would not be depen-
dent on Liverpool for the supply. —(Cheers.) By the remis-
sion of the auction duties England would be benefited to the
amount of 274,000/., in Ireland only to 11,800/.—( Hear. )
In England the glass duties amounted to 774,0001.;
in Ireland only to 5,5471.—( Hear, hear.) These
facts established an important difference. (Hear,
hear.) He wished he could convince the people
w Ireland of the feelings which animated the Government of
that House, calumniated as it was in Ireland.—(Cheers. )
For he believed that there would be a universal feeling of satis-
faction in that House, if they could see the manufacturers of
that country enter into equal competition with the manufac-
turers of England.—( Hear, hear. ) Now, it was with great
satisfaction that he heard his Hon. and Learned Friend the
Member for Cork say, that in his country, with the prospect of
better times, men who had devoted themselves to agitation
were now directing their attention to the improvement of their
estates. —( Hear, hear.) He agreed in the general proposition
that the two portions of the empire should be placed upon an
equal footing in respect to taxation, but that was not the pro-
position which the House was now called upon to
affirm. In Great Britain, land, offices, profes-
sions, and trades, were subject to the income-
tax. But it was now proposed to subject in Ireland land only
to the tax. Thatl was not equality. But in fret land was the
property most affected in Ireland by the tax, for if the land.
owner resided in England he was subject to the tax, which
seemed as an inducement to him to reside in Ireland. After
much consideration of the question the difficulties of construct-
ing the means of collecting the tax, and the different condition
of Ireland to England, in respect to wealth, induced him—
especially as the tax was only temporary—to adhere to his
original proposition.—( Hear, herr.) The Hon. Member for
Essex charged him with having cheered the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman opposite, when be said the imposition of the tax on
Ireland would be unjust. The word he cheered was "- impo-
litic," nor could he disregard the moral and political
considerations which entered into this question. When
he looked at the present condition of Ireland, and the pros-
pects which were opened to that country, when the minds of
men were directed from political agitation to their own inte-
rests and the interests of the people—(Hear, hear)—he
thought it would be wise for the House to relinquish the
pecuniary advantage of one or two hundred thousand pounds,
that might be derived from the income-tax, and to convince
the people of Ireland that they were disposed to take an in-
dulgent view of Irish interests, and whilst they were willing to
impose the tax for three years upon themselves, they were not
disposed to extend it for the first time to Ireland. lie thought
they would be compensated by the reciprocal feelings i
of a
people whose wants and necessities, and inferior position n
re-pest to wealth, they were disposed to regard with kind feel-
ings.—( Cheers. )
Mr. Sergeant MURPHY said, that he had no appre-
hensions of the House acceding to the proposition of the
Member for Bath, whose brilliant exhibition of talent and
sparkling diction he listened to with pleasure, but with no less
pleasure had he heard the magnificent answer of his Hon.
Friend the Member for Dungarvon, whose speech roust be
any thing but gratifying to the other side of the House.—
(Cheers and laughter.) He would, however, read for them