The Sun.
London, England, 1811-01-26 00:00:00

then could the -pteient friendi of those: who ad.
nixed the Gagging, Hills of that day, and by ,whom
these salutary measures- bad been so otter ridi-
culed, feel at the ,presertt momett ? He should
ever feel°pride in.the part he had aded on those OCC3-
cious, Let calumny assail him, as it tiaily,djd; let
his conduct be eauvaised end criticised, ,as it was
every day in the public print's, for Os which he had
never performertylet those who questioned the rec-
titude of his imiginent and the fairness of his me-
tives bring isp their ettorts to bear aping him
• •.
Ite WWI Cf.)11840l1Of hawing Oed-right) and might
:confidently say.-Impavidamlimicat,r4.w. As to
tile cases of lunacy, on winch, in his judicial cnpa.
;city he had to de‘ide, his decisions were elwayi
guide by hisjudgment and donseieuce ; and never,
in any decision, did heattempt.to separate from' the
mica that fame before him the cornfotts and c011.,'
,(ilatiOnk with which they, should be attended. 'As
an individual nothing,eould make him alter the opi-
niOn and the sentiments which he, entertained to-
wards hi, 4overecgu. These sentitnents extended to
the Queen and all that belonged .to the Royal. Fa:
Whatever might be the feelings of other
Noble:Lords, even should theyall vote for the pro.
posed. Amendment, he should be proud to stand alone
and, peknoWleclging his ,attachment to his E:ittg, re-
solutely vote againq it.. . , •

Lord C!.,ANCAUTV did not approve of the Amend-
ments neither did he altogether approve of the
Elaine as it now stood. Unless some alterations were.
nitide,in 'it with respell to the power of .the Queen.,
he should vote against it ; he should, however,' re-
serve his opinion Unfit he saw what change woOldibe
.proposed in in it.
Lord GRENVIi.LS 'said, that he should consider
the question then before Adz. Lordships not so much
in reference to the proposed amendment, as to .the
iiiitnediate consideration whether the words now in .
the Clatise shall 'or shall' not stand Ott of that
clause ; with reseed. to that part of the question he
felt no difficulty, and es to the'perelexity complain-
cd of hy the Noble Lord; he thought the course to
be pursued by the Noble I in eh hr3l* oie to he,
according to his own showing, sufficiently 'obvious.
If the 'Noble Lord "was of eeittion that thesewor.ts
ought to stand Ott of the Glatike, he in that case
would 'vote against the ainendmetit ; and on the
queStion that these words remain,
,he would ,oi
course say content ; but if he thought, as he un-
derstood the, Nehle Lord to thitik, thatthose.Words,
°ogle not to remnin, he, on' the question being put
ihat these words stand part of the clause, will say,
not-ceutent With respect to an allusion. made by
the Noble, and Learned LOrd' on the Woolstick, to
thepart taken by' hiM (Lord Grenville). at. the pee
riod 788, he could assura that Noble Lerd, that
't that moment had. not yet arrived, and he believed
never would arrive, in which he should, in the.
slightest degree, regret the
,part taken by. 'him on
that. memorable occasion. The sentiments lie them
had on the sehjed'of, the liensehold governed him
still: Ilei then said what lie uow repe ited, that
l• they &Wild surround thesick be of Majesty with
dignity
.every possible provision , should, be made
to secure to the loyal Person every comfort and
convenience. Tlie feelings which had in
,this re-
sped Operated upon his judgment at that period, he
should be aorry that i wenty-t we years could have
httleied% t;tie. when he formerly voted for vesting
the Household its the Queen, he,did.it on the peel.
ciple that • her Majesty should be amply provided
with the meitns of enforcing and uphoiditig the au-
thority to be .vewed in her-e-but here was one ea-.
sential point of 441i:fence
.between the Bill then
brought into. Parliament, and that now before their
Lordships-that in the former, such, means were
provided fore the Queeb ; but in the present, all
such Mvall4 were withheld from her. If a Lord of
the Bed-chamber failed in 'the due discharge of his
duty-'-should he even.- be guilty of negligence or
indignity towards his •Msjestye the Queen would
have no power 'either of Temoving him or supplying
his place. He found the same restsie.tions extended
to the exercise Of her power, whether 'applied to
' the First Lord: of the Hausehold,- or to the lowest
menial attendant on, his Majesty,:-so snitch then for
the' pathetic appeals with which their Lordships
had been so vehemently assailed upon the plausible
ground of consulting' the persbnal,conventence of
his Majesty. There were, however, other • con,i,
derationa, and amongst Ahem, that was not least
important which tespeded the• Addrtss sent by
both Houses to the Prince of Wales, and 'to the
. Queen. .Those Noble Lords who.thought that the
subsequent arrangements provided for by the Bill,
with reaped to the Houseliold„ did amount to a
breacleolifitith with' either the Prince or Queen,'
could note be, expelled to vote in suppott of tlio4'
arrangements, and ns for those who had supported
the measure of me, they could nut therefore be
called upon to support 'the BM now before the
House,- especially to those points in which it was
not not only dissimilar to the formerebm repugnant
and contradidory• to it; the regulations provided in
each, respeding . the Civil I.4bt, Were • materially
different. , In the Bill of. 1788,, a chase was insert-
ed, expressly providing that the quarterly expendi-
ture during the King's illness, should not exceed
the.aineunt.of the expence ()Otte former qenrters
previous to theillneas of hie Majesty, but in the
present Bill, he was not- awaree,ofe.dy adequate
provition for due responsibility, in the.expenditere
of tins. part (Aldus public money. 'lie should say
,no more et -Present upon. the Bill r itself,'but content
himself with stating it as his opittion,' that the
clause now before their Lordships, was so incon-
sistent with -their' ,fortner .resolutions upon which
they had grounded their :Addreas to the Queen;
and to the Prince, that he should .feel 'it to he
- leis duty ttevete that the clause 'shall not stand part
of the- Bill., , • •

The Loan CIIANaLLOR I)t;ged 11..%1Vtt tf) be•
understood as noCabiolt.ilriy.ifsprov,ing of the
preSetit, clause. He tiid not ;.tpriove of toktng, any
pot of the'lltniselioid from the (Awn. He .would
nave kit the whole of the lion,k..hold With her Ma-
tesity.
ThO Marquis of LAt,fSbOWNN bera-rosecand ex-
pressed a hope, front what had just fallen .erorn Inc

Noble and Learnid Lord, that he would vole far tl e
Amendment.

The Lotto CHANcect.na replied, that though be
did not altogether apprOve of the original clause, it
did not follow that he might nAt more strongly dis
approve of what was proposed.by the Ni~blelMargt~is
•
to•be substituted, in i►s place.
The Alarvis of LiiNSDOWNE said, that he,under-
stood the Learned Lord to disapprmie of the clause,:
and therefore concluded that hownilld vote that the
said clause shonld not stand part, of,that
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that :the Noble,
Lord had again misunderstood him. He hnd. thotrgirt
in the 6rst; instawe that thc: Household sliould.be
left with the tlueen ; Parliament had told him' he,
was wrong in that opinion; and lie now was for
leaping, wish her Majesty ;s lunch of the house-'
hold as the House would agree to kwe her, since.
'they would noLleave the whole of it to her Majesty's
:corn roul.

Lord CLA NCA ter,, said, that as there were. Noble
Lords !.vlO disapptoved, both of the clause and the
amendment, they might vote against the chluse, pro-
vided the pnstassion oldie linute was .not pre•occu-
Tied by an atnendwrit.

Lora REDIiSDAL4 suggested, that that objet might 11
be in some impure .answered, if the words proposed 1
to Stand pa,rt of (he clause,shouhi.be pot in the lot-
lowing form, that those words be, here inserted..
This morioo,, if rejetled,. would afterwards leave tile
clause,' Open to be eurrecied by. the House.

Earl STANH6PE staid, that from the, high opinion
opinion which he entertained of a Noble Lord (Gren-
ville) who opposed the amendment, and his wish
that be should• al ,kayg think in t tie same manner as
his Lordship; and iliat his: Lordship should think in
the .same manner with him n, he was veiy sorry that
he should be deprived of his vote this evening'; but
he hoped that when the numbers Came tube reckoned
they would be able to do without ban.

Lord Stmeou'rn said, that all the arguments
which liehad heard this night in fa,iour ,of the
Amendment,' resolved into the deviation of the 13111
from the ResOletions.., He wanted to know what
was intended to be convoyed to, the understaeding
of the Midge, when that liettolution Wag adoptrd. '
The Noble Lords who persisted in maintaining this
deviation could not agree in the sense to be given to
the Resolution'. The meaning which the Noble
F (Grey) attached to it, was different ',horn that
entertained by the .NehleMarquis (Litesdovyne). Jr
was sld that there had been a bread) of tidal with
this and the other House. There hat been no such.
breath of faith: Ir is impossible to say that a Resel.,
hition has not been adhered to which is not specific,
and which admits of the utmost latitude of inierpre.,
tation. He wi.‘hed thaf the proce.edings of MR
had been closely followed. Indeed, all the .incon-
veniences which had arisen in the progreis of the
present measure, had their origin in the departure,
from the precedent of 1788. He thought that any
diVision of the 'Household. was. improper. Hie was
.willing that all necessary and becoming splendour
should be given to the Regent ; but Whrn he wished.
this, he could not give his consent to strip the Ic..ios
of his dignity : I.;[n wished that the Regent
.ahould
be armed with all the ordinary'power of tliepovern.
ment ; but he did t' not wish tha
a.. power should
be taken from that IlluStrions Pes,on to whom the
' woof' the SoVereign was entruste,i. .igreed,
however, in the propriety of depriving her ot the
removal, of reovel, that
.eyery objection of a Consti-
tutional nature might be obviated., It had been
stated by a Noble.' Riton, that it you tale away the
power ef,retiteyal, you subject, your Suvercibn
.to
the chance of indecent treatioent from persona whom
you hive no pev'er over, He could
.net see tfit,y
force of this objettion. If any persons were so far
to forgPt thetth,elves as to behave irreverently or in.
decently in the presence of his Majesty, their: at-
tendance might be dispensed.' with,,although a re-
moval should not take place. It Was impossible to
conceive that any sech persons would have the es-
suranee tolorce thejrnttendance on his Majesty con-
traty to the Wisliett.af the person who had the di-
rection of hint. 'They vi'ere to recollealhat theSo,
vereign still existed in his politiCal capacity ; and if
it was not right, therefore to take away' frog' him
any power bet such as was necessary' for carrying op
the Government, so, in like manner, it .was nut
right to 'take away 'any dignity due to the Sevareign.
The additional sum which might be found necessary
for the splendobr'of the Regent, was so inconsider-
able; that it could be no ohjett, to' the nation ; .ittr
amount would not 'equal the fourth part of the ex.
pence which had been laid out in improving their
Lordships' House--mtid would they hesitate to be.
lOW this, and thus avoid the 'shatne.and disgrace of
bereaving their SOvereigp of his proper splendour
and dignity "He wished to follow the precedent, of
1788 closely,•and to avoid making, the cootrast
tweep` 1788 and 1811- disgraceful to the latter.
What had twenty-Oki) years done, to lower the So.;
vereign in the eyes of the country ? entreated
their Lordships to spare their Sovereign the ,PosSi-
bility effeeling a disappointment at their proceed-
ings on his recovery ; and to avoid departure from a
precedent which did immortal honour to the person
who had the
j.ttitiver!rteojeftlitcon
`tire:
therefore
of obiewiar give
his vote for
Amendment. .

. .
The quioation, being then ingtily call for, the Com-
mittee 'divided on the Motion, that 'the wordy of ;he
6riginal Clause shOuld itand lint of the 1341; when
.the numbers were—
C ont nt s
'
N on-Contents

• 96
• soli

Majority naing Ministers • z
I:llo,Cottimit.te we understand, j St rangers con-
tinned exclOctl) otter iipme 41$eyssion, a* to the
InLooter ot.putting the Mption, proceeded to.clivide
the Amendmeqt tuoye4 by thentrquis ofttlos•
d,),A oe,.Witeo the numbers werq,
Contents Non-Contents. . • .
. • •

Majority against Mioisteri 9
This diminution of the Majority on' tfie first Mo-
tion arose, 'we understand, in consequence of
,Lord
Radnor, who before voted with. the Opposition,
having on this 'proposition; dittided 'with
. .

II A Itlt IS, at No. 4, MiTtlett.4mirt, bow-strati and Ptbibibed by tVJLLIAM AItMI L It scitl ',cut Moiton
cg, No, i i Strand, where idvoliretnent;,,Ordtro (or tho,Popir. lot ttdrt fut. the 4,11t0r ace. (post-paia),-1