The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-14 00:00:00

their Lordships were aware that that Act required Roman
Catholics, for the purpose of exonerating themselves from
the operation of the existing Penal Statutes, to take an
Oath of Allegiance to the Monarch on the Throne, and to
the succession in his Majesty's family being Protestants.
The Irish Act of 1793, far a similar purpose, also called tat
the Roman Catholic to swear allegiance to the King, but
only to the succession in his Majesty's family, omitting the
words " being- Protestants." In 1813 an order had been
made (we understood on the motion of the Noble Earl
himself) for a Return to that House of the number of Ca
tholics who had taken the oath prescribed by the Act of
1791. Although the Act directed that the names of the
Catholics should be registered, yet to that order there were,
from many places no returns ; and where there were
it appeared, that during a period of time exceeding twenty
years in duration, there had been in some counties one Ca-
tholic, in some two Catholics, in some four persons, who
had taken the oath ; a number so small, when compared
with the Roman Catholics in the country, as to be
wholly insignificant. He would now move, " That a
Return should be made to that House of the number of
Roman Catholics who had taken the oath in question
since the year 1813 ; and (as we understood the Noble
Earl) it similar Return with reference to Scotland." The
Act declared that the Roman Catholics should be re-
lieved from the penalties of the existing Statutes only on
taking the Oath of Allegiance which that Act prescribed.
God fin bid that he should have the slightest intention or
wish to subject them to those penalties. No man was
more anxious than himself to see the penal laws against
the Catholics, as contra-distinguished from the disqualify-
ing laws, repealed. While upon his legs, he wished to he
allowed to say a few words further. In the gracious Speech
from the Throne made at the opening of the present Ses-
sion, after the recommendation to Parliament to commit
to him such powers as might enable his Majesty to main-
tain his just authority, was the following passage :—" Isis
Majesty recommends, that when this essential point shall
have been accomplished, you should take into your delibe-
rate consideration the whole condition of Ireland ; sad
that you should review the laws which impose civil dis-
abilities on his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects. You
will consider whether the removal of these disabilities can
be effected consistently with the full and permanent secu-
rity of our establishments in Church and State, with the
maintenance of the Reformed Religion as established by
law, and of the rights and privileges of the Bishops and of
the Clergy of this realm, and of the Churches committed
to their charge. These are institutions which must ever
be held sacred in this Protestant kingdom, and which it is
the duty and the determination of his Majesty to preserve
inviolate." This was a distinct pledge to the country that
nothing- would be done by his Majesty that would bring
the Protestant Establishment into the slightest hazard.

His IlLijesty distinctly stated his determination to preserve
the institutions which must ever be held sacred in this
Protestant kingdom inviolate. For this gracious decla-
ration, he (Lord Eldon) for one, felt the deepest gra-
titude; and it was the more necessary to call the atten-
tion of the House to this declaration, as his Majesty
had lately been referred to on several occasions in that
House, in a manner nut at all according with Parliamen-
tary usage and principle. Their Lordships had, however,
had the declaration of a Right Rev. Archbishop and a
Right Rev. Bishop on that subject; and it was his own
conviction, founded upon means of judging of his Majesty's
opinion—such as few persons had the happiness to enjoy—
that it was his Majesty's determination, in the terms of his
Majesty's most gracious Speech, to preserve inviolate the
Protestant Constitution and frame of Government in this
country. The question therefore would be, whether the
measures which were soon to be submitted to their Lord-
ships' consideration were of such a character that his Ma-
jesty might give his consent to them, and yet preserve in-
violate the Protestant Constitution and form of Govern-
ment. He (Lord Eldon) should be guilty of the basest
ingratitude to his Majesty if he did not assert his entire con-
viction that to those measures his Majesty would never give
his consent unless the condition described in his Majesty's
most gracious Speech was strictly complied with. The
Noble Earl concluded by moving for a Return of the num-
ber of Roman Catholics in England who had taken the
oath prescribed by the Act of 1791.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE begged leave to say
one word. The Noble Lard had imputed to him that he
had expressed his surprise that the people of this country
should presume to judge of the question before the House.
He (the Marquis of Lansdowne) had never stated that the
people of the country ought not to presume to judge of any
question. What lie had said was, not that the people had
not a perfect right to judge of any question and to petition
Parliament upon it, but that he was surprised that some
Noble Lords paid. less attention to the petitions of the people
when they were on subjects of which the people knew the
most, than they did when these petitions were on subjects
of which the people knew the least.
The Earl of ELDON was confident that the Noble Mar-
quis had used the word " presume."
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE appealed to the House
whether he had used the word. If he had, it had been ac-
cidentally.
Lord ELI)ON explained.
The LORD CHANCELLOR would not have trespassed

upon their Lordships' attention on the present occasion, I
had it not been for certain observations not exactly bearing
upon the question befiire the House, which had fallen from
the Noble Earl. The Noble Earl had read a passage from
his Majesty's Speech at the opening of the present Session,
and from that passage had drawn an inference favourable
to his own view of the case. The Noble Earl, from time
to time, on presenting petitions, or making motions, de-
dared that he would not enter on the consideration of the
general question at issue; but with an address and a dex-
terity peculiar to himself, the Noble Earl, nevertheless,
availed himself of every opportunity of glancing at and
condemning the measures which it was in the contempla-
tion of his Majesty's Government to propose. On a former
occasion the Noble Earl called those measures detestable.
He now declared them inconsistent with our Protestant
Establishment and frame of Government. He (the Lord
Chancellor) would not enter at that time into the subject;
but he pledged himself, in opposition to the opinions ex-
pressed and insinuated by the Noble Earl, that whenever
the measures alluded to should come before them for re-
gular discussion, he would prove, to the satisfaction of
their Lordships and to the satisfaction of the country, that
they were in no respect whatever inconsistent with the per-
fect security of the Protestant form of Government. So
much for that topic. In the same style of observation the
Noble Earl had glanced at and condemned the measure
which had passed both Houses of Parliament, and received
the Royal Assent. That measure the Noble Earl pro-
nounced wholly inefficient. But how extraordinary it was
that the Noble Earl, with all his talents, with all his ex-
perience, and with all his zeal to put pown the Catho-
lic Association, never entered into an examination of
the merits of that Bill—never pointed out its defects--
was not in his place in the House when it passed
through the Committee ! It was rather too much when
the Noble Earl had not condescended to take this trouble,
that lie should now glance at the defects of the measure,
and insinuate that it was unequal to effect that for
which it was passed. The speech of the Noble Earl
comprehended an insinuation against the Catholics of
Ireland, as if they were unwilling to take the oath pledg-
ing themselves to support the Protestant succession. The
oath in the English Act of the 18th of the late King, was
framed in the manner of that in the Irish Act of 1793.
By the English Act of 1791, an alteration was made in
the form of the oath, and the Catholics were required to
swear to support the Protestant succession. The Noble
and Learned Lord here entered into a history of the oaths
in the Irish Acts; and maintained that there was nothing to
show that if their attention had been called to the circurn-
cumstance the Irish Parliament, in the Act of 1793,
would net have adopted the form of oath in the English
Act of 1791. The oaths in the Bills introduced in the other
House of Parliament, in 1813 and 1821—the former of
which was framed by the Member who introduced it, in
concert with some of the principal Catholics of Ireland—
afforded sufficient proof that the Catholics of Ireland were
ready to swear to support the Protestant succession to the
Crown. He had never heard until now any insinuation or
surmise that they were not so. , If he doubted it, he should
be as strongly opposed to the proposed measure as the
Noble Earl ; but it was because he fAt the fullest confi-
dence on the subject, that he considered it his duty to
support what the Noble Ear: had so repeatedly condemned.
Lord REDESDADE expressed his satisfaction at being
told, by the Noble and Learned Lord, that the Roman Ca-
lies of Ireland were ready to take the oath to support the
Protestant succession. Adverting to the petitions which
had been p:esented to their Lordships, he confessed that
the manner in which those petitions had been treated had
surprised him. He could assure their Lordships that the
language in which those petitions had been spoken of in
that House, had created great alarm in the country. Such
language was insulting to the lower orders of the commu-
nity. For his own part, lie doubted exceedingly if peace
and good order would be restored in Ireland by the Bills about
to be proposed. His (Lord Redesdale's) opinion on the
Bill fcr suppressing the Catholic Association was recorded
on their Lordships' Journals. That Bill appeared to him
of a character which his respect for that and for the other
House of Parliament would not allow him to describe.
He was convinced that if the Government of Ireland had
done their duty, the Catholic Association might have been
suppressed long ago, by the operation of the common law.
Lord PLUNKETT, with reference to the last remark