The Sun.
London, England, 1820-08-23 00:00:00

CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. BROUGHAM.

At a quarter past 11 the cross-examination was commenced
by Mr. Brougham, the same interpreter continuing to act.
The witness having stated in his examination that he had left
the service of Genoa! Pino, he wished to know whether it
was nut in consequence of having killed a horse I—No.
Now you have told us that you left the service of General
Pino. Pray was it not for killing a horse, or something of
that sort ?—No.
You never killed a horse in your life?—Never.
Never told any body that .you had ?:Never. (A few cries
of—. Oidtr" were heard when the last question was put.)
Mr. Brougham appealed to their Lordships, if it was fitting
that he should be admonished, as he proceeded in the dis-
charge of his duty, by cries of order.
[A slight murmur ran through the House, and cries of—
" Go on," and " There was no call to order," were heard.]
What wages did you receive while in the service of General
Pino?—Five and twenty pence.
Per day ?—Per day.
You did not find it enough, and went away on that account?
—Witness left his service at Mantua during the blockade of
that place.
At the second table of the Queen's house at Naples, did
you not, .sit with the servant of Sir W. Gell ?—1 do not re-
member.
Do you remember the English servant of Mr. Keppel,
another Gentleman of her Royal Highness's suite ? Did he
dine at the second table ?—1 do not remember.
Had either of those two Gentlemen servants at all, in her
Royal Highness's family ?—They had.
English servants 1-;--Yes, English, I believe, for thy always
spoke English.
Were they livery servants or servants on:. of livery?—They
during every day did not wear livery, but during the great
dinners he saw than in liveries—in uniforms.
Was it the duty of the ordinary liver! servants to wait upon
her Royal Highness ?—At table.
Was it their duty also to wait on her Royal Highness at
breakfast in the morning ?—No.
Was it not the duty of the upper servants, including the
courier, to wait upon her 'Royal Highness at breakfast ?—Yes.
Doei he know Hyeronimus ?—Very
Does he kno..v Camera ?—Yes.
In her lsfajesty's house at Naples, where did Wtn. Austin
sleep do not remember.
Vi ill you swear that he did not sleep in the next room to
her Royal Highness?—This cannot remember.
What was the room next to that in which her Royal
Highness slept?—There was a grand saloon; I have seen
no of her.
Where did Dr. Holland sleep ?—I cannot remember.
Will he swear that there was no paisage by which her-Royal
Highness could enter Bs:rotas room while he was confined
by sickness, without going through the room in which this
witness slept I—l have not seen any other passage.
Will you swear there were no other passages ?—There was
a grand saloon, after which canoe the apartment of her Royal
Highness, and beyond that the re was a corridor.
Will you swear that there was no other passage to the room
of Bergami ?—1 cannot swear it, but I know of no other than
that which I bare mentioned, and I can say no other than
this. .

Will you swear that there was no other communication but
through this passage 1-1 cannot swear there is another; there
might have been, but I have not seen any, and can only swear
to this one. _ .

Will you swear there was no other way in which any per-
son wishing to go from the Princess's room to Bergami's
room could go, except through the cabinet?—There was
another passage to go into the room of Bergansi.
Without going into the cabinet ?—Yes.
Where did Hyeroninius sleep I—l do not remember.
Where did Sir W. Gell's servant sleep 1-1 don't re-
member. _ _ _

Nor where Mr. Craven's servant slept ?—I don't remew
ber.

Where did Dame Dumont sleep ?—I don't remember.
Not any of the other servants?-4 do not know.
Where did the Queen's maid sleep ?—I do not know.
Where did the other maid sleep ?—I do not know.
Was it not a very severe accident which Bergami met. with
front the kick of the horse?-1t was so severe that he could
not go on horseback.

Was it not so severe that he was obliged to keep his room ?
—I cannot say, asp have no knowledge of the illness.
Was it not so severe that your bed was put in the cabinet
for the first time to wait on him ?—Yes.

Did he go out a walking ?—I cannot know whether he could
walk.

Did you see hint walk out, as usual, every day about the
streets ?—I don't recollect.

Will you swear you ever saw hint walk out during his ill
nets ?—1 do not recollect.

Did you ever go into his room during the time of his ill.
ness .?—I went to look at him.

• Did you frequently go into his roost ?—Often.
Did you then find him walking up and down ?—This
don't remember.

Was he attended by any medical man ?—I don't recollect.
Did you not see her Royal Highness go into the room of
Hyeronimus, when he too was ill, to ask after his health ?
I don't remember.

Have you not seen her Royal Highness go into the room
of Sir WM.II to ask after his health, when he was ill ?—I
don't recollect.

Was it not the constant practice of her Royal Highness to go
constantly into the rooms of her attendants when ill, to see
after them ?—I do not recollect.
You never happened to be ;ill yourself at Naples ?—No.
Did her Royal Highness make the slightest difference be-
tween the highest and the lowest of her attendants, in ask-
ing after their health, when ill?
The Solicitor-General objected to these questions. This
was aisuming that these persons bad been ill.
Mr. Brougham justified his questions.
The Lord Chancellor was of opinion that the witness ought
to be asked whether these persons were ill within the wit-
ness's recoil ection,before he could he asked whether her Royal
Highness visited them.
Mr. Brougham.—Then I will alter it.
Cross-examination resumed.
Were all the domestics of her Royal Highness, high and
low, all in perfect health while she was at Naples ? Did Dr.
Holland never attend any person while at Naples ?—I do nut
recollect any other person being attended but Berganii during
that tall. Ido not recollect any others.
But not during the fall. Was any other person attended
by Dr. flolland at any time while you were at Naples ?—I do
not recollect.
What sort of bed did you sleep on Us the cabinet when you
attended Bergarili ?—A mattress.
No curtains ?—No; quite open.
When her Royal Highness went from Naples to Rome in
Match, English persons were with her ?—Dr.
Ho
iatil,lBalssfatiAa.liaslt remember, Hyeronimus.
Was not Lady Charlotte Lindsay with her ?—Do you mean
a small tiny Lady, for I do not know their names.
Were there one or two English Ladies with her I—l have
seen one; the little thin one, I have seen and remember.
Did one or both of the English Ladies go from Naples to
Rome with her Royal Highness ?—Madatne Falconet alone.
The mother and two daughters ?—the mother was stated to
be the wife of Falconet, the banker at Naples.
Was she an English Lads ?—1 don't know.
DM she speak English .?
I think she spoke French ; did
not hear her talk English.
Did she take her two daughters with her to Rome ?—1
don't recollect.

Did you ever see those two daughters in the Queen's house
with their mother at Naples I—No.
I)i4 you see them with their mother at any time?—l'es; on
the beginning of the journey to Rome.
What age were they 1-1 can't recollect.
Were they young children or young ladies ?—I don't re-
collect.

The Lord Chancellor interposed.—The witness must finish
his answer. •

(The question repeated.)—Young
Did you see Lady Charlotte Lindsay, or any other person
heside Lady Falconer, when her Royal Highness left Naples?
—I don't recollect.
Did you ever see more than one English lady in her house-
hold at once I—l don't remember. I don't know.

Mr. Brougham interposed, and said the answer did not
mean " I don't know." The Interpreter said, if he was
wrong, there was an Interpreter on the other side who was
sworn, and who would correct

Mr. Cohen was now called by Mr. Brougham, and said tbe
answer meant " 1 don't remember."
The witness said he meant '• 1 do riot recollect to havesee°
that."
You gave us an account yesterday of having knocked 01
night at Bergami's door at Genera, se loudly that he fl
have heard you, but you did not hear any mister ?—Yes.
What sort of people were they that cameltuto the hour
then thVade yonsinock up je Baton ?—That was the
when tl heft was oNlel-when the robbgts came.
.Was mili\the Mary thati: waVpart of your fried
gang. Order., order T) •
The Solicitor-General...4 object to that question as tld
most irregular that can be put. You assume he was the frig°
of a gang.
Mr. Brougham.—He was the leader—he was the peill!I
mover.—(Order, order !)
The Lord Chancellor.—Nobody can doubt that it is ti3o
irregular.—(Hear, hear !)
Mr. Brougham.-1 will take it in detail.
Did you look out of the window ?—Yes, and saw a tall per
son, and took a gun and fired upon this person.
A Noble Lord in the Gallery moved that the Counsel ad
Agents do withdraw.
Cries of—" NVithdraw, withdraw !"
The same Noble Lord.—l wish to know if Sir William Gell
be a witness summoned on either side?
The Lord Chancellor.—He is a witness summoned on the
part of the Queen.
The same Noble Lord.—l wish to know if he he present.
Sir William Gell was now pointed out below the bar.
The same Noble Lord.—l understood it was. ordered, the,
the witnesses on neither side should be allowed to be present.
Several Noble Lords now commented on the presence of ,
William Gell in defiance of that order; and, after a 000
debate, an order was made, that nu witness who was. so per,
sent in future should be examined on either side, withow
special leave from,the House.
Mr. Brougham resumed his cross-examination.
After the robbers attacked the house, and you fired as ye'
described, was not the whole house alarmed at what 111
taken place ?-4 immediately ran to knock at the door, au',
on coming down stairs, I found all the people collected tlg'
coming down.
Did you see any one with a drawn sword in his hand ea
that occasion ?-1 cannot remember that.
Was Captain Hownam there ?-1 don't remember.
Was Hieronyinus?-1t was all the family; but I can't see,
if he in particular was there.
Bergami was these, was he not ?—Yes, he saw him.
How long after the first alarm did witness knock at Berge.
mi's door I—ln abut three minutes.
In three minutes after he fired the piece ?—Yes. i
When you found Bergami did not answer your knocking
the door, did you open it to see if he was there ?—No, I ds'
pot open the door, but Bergami again came down in about*
quarter of au hour after, tasking a great noise as he cant'
down.

here were you placed when you are pleased to say Bee
gami came out ?
The Interpreter.—lt is impossible for me to put it, " whir
'you are pleased to say ;" I shall put it, " when you saw Der
garoi come out, where did you stand?"
The question was repeated.—Where were you placed wilco,
you are pleased to say you saw Bergami come out ? I knockel:
at his door, there was no answer, and I went down stairs ; al!
the family were coming out, and Bergami came out in abuts'
a quarter of an hour after.
How soon after witness fired the piece did h e see Bergaulf
and the rest of the household come out ?—1 fired, and ran t°
Bergami's room; I knocked louder and louder; I received i'
answer, and when I came back again, all the family were
collected, and I cried out " Robbers,- robbers ! are in the
house." I remained there, and the people returned.
How long were you knocking at Bergami's door ?—A
time, and louder and louder.,
Did you go below from Bergami's door ?—I went to the
room where the robbers had been.
Where did you first see Bergami after that time ?—ln the
same room when I returned, and where the robbers ha"'
been.

Were you at the Braganza with the Queen ?—I was.
What room was next to the Queen's in that house ?-1111
great saloon, and a room which led to that of her Roys ,
Highness.
What other room was next, on any other side of the.
Queen's room, except the great saloon ?—There was Quist° .
sides a window, and on the third side other rooms.
Was there not a room usedfor sitting in,, which commu
cated with the Queen's room, on the side you speak of?—" ,
do not know what use the rooms were made of.
Where did Hieronymus sleep?—Nora mi ricordo; (I don
remember.)
Where did Captain Hownaiu sleep ?—Non mi aeon/0; (/
don't remember.)
Was William Austin there ?—He was.
Was Hieronymus?—He was.
Was Camera ?—Yes.
Was Vitcorine ?—Non mi ricordo.

Did the child always sleep in the Princess's room; or gene;
rally, after she was taken by her, did she Sleep in her ruoll3 •
Non mi ricordo.
Do you know if Vittorine lived in any other part of the
house, or of the ship, than in the room of the Princess ? rud
mi ricordo.

Was Vittorine generally, or always with the Queen ?
The Interpreter on putting the question said, he does no*
understand the commonest word, and I can't explain to bid',
I beg ten thousand pardons, but I cannot make bits compre
bend.
Mr.Brougham—Never mind, we shall notice thatafterwardo,

Will yon swear you ever saw Vitturine sleep in the ship, o_f
in thc house, but where the Queen was ?—1 sometimes saw,
her sleep, when her Royal Highness was above, under Of
pavilion, sometimes -down below with her Royal Hightwor ,
and sometimes in the room where was the Dante criforectetio
Who do vou mean by the lady of honour ?—Countess
Do you know who beside yourself ever saw Vittovine stetP
out of the room of her Royal Highness ?—Questo non scio
don't know.)
Did you ever see Vittorine in a room, and in a bed,
which her Royal Highness was not to steep that night ?-111
Interpreter putting the question, said, the witness does out ,
understand good language ; I shall put it to him as well as
can. •

Here he repeated the question, to which the witness rr
plied, I have never seen her.
Did a Mr. Burrell, an English gentleman, go to Venice wit '
her Royal Highness at the time you speak of?—Non ini ,
cordo (I don't remember).
Do you recollect a gentleman of that name being in
Royal Highness's family ?—Yes, for a short time:
Where and when ?—At Villa Villani, where we were, 104 •
also at Milan.

At Boromeo ?—Non scio (don't know).
At Venici ?—Non mi ricordo.
The second time you went to Genoa was not the arranV'' •
ment of the rooms the same as before with respect to those;
the Princess and Bergami ?—The Princess went to Genoa ools
once, then she came frum Naples. The second time she We"
on board a ship.
At D'Este was the disposition of the rooms of the Princes
and Bergami the same as before ?—They were not. of
Was there not a staircase or a landing-place on one side
the Princess's room ?—There was a small corridor on the le"'
on one of the rooms oti which the door was genet ally orri.
Going further 01.1, on the same side, there was a small cabine'
another door opening into a room where they supped of
evening.

SePl

Did it communicate with the room where the Queen St,.' •
on one side, and with that of her maids on the other '---APL•
(beyond) the supper-room there was a room where Bert:m—s
slept; the supping-room was on the right, from wheogo Il
door led into Bergami's room, and in the room was a so°
alcove, where was the bed of the maids.
How many doors were in the small room where the!,
supped ?—I can only recollect two doors that I al war ‘3
open.
'Where did the maids sleep ?—On the other side, in anothtlis.
quarter.
Where did Dr. Holland sleep ?—I don't know.
How did the maids get at the room of her Royal Highneli
by what passage ?—Through the small corridor, they con

go that way. nisr
Upon the journey, when het Royal 1-14thness used to
the witness has said, her practice was to travel by
,14. it, a

. .
rest during the heat of the day ?—Yes.
Did her Royal Highness ride on that journey?—Yes.
On horseback ?—Yes.
About how many hours was she on horseback daring 101:1e;
course of the night ?—She mounted the horse in the eve"
at son-set, and dismounted at sun-rise in the niornitnt.-
For about how many hours, I am not particular as to
an hour ?—Non ricordo. • elt
Was she four hours ?—I cannot recollect, I had "'
llr
and don't know. rid°
Will you take upon rot' to swear she did not often
eight hours without stopping ?—quest', ricallo.
es,
Was it not customary after riding for her Royal 144411"10,
to throw herself on the sofa as if tired ?—I do not reweitll ofr
Did not you sleep frequently or rest during the day
the inner and outer tent where her 7.tuyAl Highness "'a
in g repose ?—Yes, I and Carlin',. „
Was not that the regular place of resting for both of 1"

1
x

I

4114
ft(

!ii r4l°

•
4weell
I, tol'

you (.1

"eh hours ?—Yes, I slept on one side of the tent and Carlino
on the other.
What sort of sofas were put under the tents on these occa-
?-orie was a Turkish sofa, and the other had iron rails.
._"°w was the sofa placed ?—ln the middle of the tent there
'-'4B a pilkow, and the sofa was placed close to it.
Was it riot in every respect as a sofa placed in rooms ?—I
Paid no particular attention to it; I only know that otte was
Turkish sofa, and that the other had iron
Did you not place a matress on it to render it soft ?—Yes.
W", not the nratress covered with leather ?—This I don't
renterstiser.
Was it not your office to place this matress upon the sofa
s es, mine and Carlitio's.
as not that the same sofa used on board the polacca?—l
,10 1101' recollect.
It it Was riot the same identical sofa, was it not su like it as
to be easily taken for it I—l don't remember.
Was it not her Royal High tress's constant practice during the
'°Yage to throw herself down to rest during the day without
t'
411,'"g• off tier clothes )-1.4. this I paid no atteritisot.
you take -elf to swear that during the whole
upon yours.
clothes
the voyage her Royal Highness took off one stitch of her
-.°thes I—Olt !if You speak so I can understand you ; after
I lisitiontiting front her horse she always undressed herself be-
°re she went to rest.
likVlrat part of her clothes did she take off for that purpose ?
tipper garments.
g,,t)wa you mean to say that her Royal Highness took.ociffinhoer
, or merely a surtout or cloak that she wore while I
(1011't remember.
riVas riot her Royal Highness in the habit of putting on a
v.ssak before slie went to rest ?—I don't remember.
bid her Royal Highness put on a mantle before she went to
,
?—I don't rericitiber.
tai,'Vere there sheets arid blankets on the sofa, that one might
e them off arid go to bed as in Europe ?-4 placed on the
a feather bed.
were there sheets on the bed ?—I don't remember.
'''as it exactly in the same condition as during the voyage
(board the polacca ?-1 don't remember.
l
6 You swear that either during the voyage by sea or by
-all you saw her Royal Highness take off one stitch of her
clothes ?—1 don't recollect.
except yourself and Carlino, ever made those beds ?
----I don't r e"''el r othe person.
eiEHasL ), "441.1 not•
that It. was your duty arid labour to
~,.:47(t)11to.se beds ?—We placed the bed un the sofa, and then
JViiouresnoved flue beds in the morning while on board ship ?
;I(.lein't recollect.
you swearthat it was not yourself ?—I don't remember.
ea,i'," 'were ordered to 1114 lie the bed we catried in the
"1-1 and ti • morning we were called to take away tire
tuskitm, in the
.
'enit4.‘e,sarsi ever seen the boy William Austin resting in the
• don't remember.
re„-.',0Y,‘°,1 ever see Hieronymus in the same way ?—1 don't
urr,
'srav ^inti swear that they both did not rest in the same
fn don't remember.
rat ;the ruout helots, where did Hieronymus sleep in gene-
doret reirreanher.
1/.1"-re did the Guinness of Oldi sleep I—l don't remember.
roon,lere slid You yourself sleep ?-011 the sofa in the sante
II: as they dined in.
ta,„(l trerariot a person of the name of Caruerari sleep there l—
ilu was riot a servant.
did lie not sleep there while be was on board ?—He
ss,a,
50t
a servant. I don't know where he slept while on
,
sicßut,k ,you swear that your slept there always ?—When I felt
Ili went below, and generally,' slept there.
w,'ere did the maids sleep 1-1 don't know.
yotlere did Cdptain Flynn sleep I—l don't know.
I.kus„'' know that there was an English officer of that name on
vessel ?—Yes.
Stres:""r; tlte whole voyage ?--Yes; Lieutenant Flynn was
.1„;1,t during the whole voyage.
land• voyage as well as the sea voyage ?—I don't re-
en whether he was present during the land voyage.
15,,, II Your swear that lie was not at Palestine ?—This I don't
ember
Ab„, , •
Is ns What aged man is Lieutenant Flynn I—l can't tell.
eta }e a inan about 30, or is he inure than 40 1-1 can't re-
-ISi he inlay be so.
,tuta.;,‘" older or'
younger apparently than the Captain of the
sisea?-1 can't recollect.
‘' -are vim ever seen him in your life, except during the
le • ---I don't recollect.
11,,i4ve You ever seen trim in your life at any of her Royal
t,aess's villas its Italy ?—I do not remember.
Yiats tl • doubt your mind that he was nut in
ee Last
)d1 Highness's service while on shore ?—I don't re-
, Ttii)trr either yes or no.
••afq You must recollect, about what time you saw him
rennet
trite last time I saw him was at Syracuse; I don't re-
Wer ba yc seen him since.
esi" ever sick during the voyage on board the po-
'.e ship. always more unwell than well while on board
Here v
*ortls „f.:r. rougham objected to the interpretation of the
thew it' d the Short-hand Writer being called
re,ad lt:t.;sl:oatens, gave.'
the above translation. Mr.
then caged upon anv one of their Lordships, who
ipteri:rta,nY of them Italian sch Liars, to declare whether the
tu,pretr.ation of the words was trot, as given at first by the
r, almost always unwell.
The 14;t1 'lke of HAMILTON said that those were the words of
LordelPretee.
".thatil,',l!)EN rosy amidst cries of Order, order! and request-
-4:1.0r1 ' question might be repeated.
,4ee„`.'ivetteoot. conceived that there was so very slight a
a(' th,te between the words read by the She Writer
eedi„.z-st Said to be used by the Inteipreter, that such a pro-
Ca, quite onneeessary.
:„th.ert o CHANCELLOR said that no one, either within or
'wytni Bar, had a right to iriterpret for the House ex-
ee is person who ws sworn, and front him alone they
Ol111(1
y„ to receive thea answers of the witness.
Itibe kuuldikit sleep below when ill I—Yes, under the deck,
.I‘”Ag4e,ll tort been frequently for days together during the
You never made your appearance above at all?
vet :It , "time,s one or two days without coming till•
lbhutit)e°o".."re2r that you were not several days together
44444 You ''n-g‘up 1-1 was whole days without coming up.
toed whole days together ?=-For instance, in the
st:ck,and ndcontinued beloglboss; until next morning.
et ••• swear that you were not more than two days to-
,et.irs‘‘l,.ttl-it ever coming up at all I—l was one day and
sei, 'II
,
11 swear then that during the whole voyage you
t.ltt•t 41°1‘'-' than one day and one night without coming
klr.
rougharn objected to the manner in which the
ITlrtP7tte.r,tptit this question. as not sufficieritly literal.
117-Preter.—With great submission, my Lords, I beg
4' 'R4I "tt if I did DIA Mr Brotwham's questions literally,
h:SOP-IX:tit'llt fellow would *not understand them. If I was
ac iklest4o,,! meaning; to a man of talent, I should then put
Ihtatim, another way, but if I did so On the present
tLois macaroni • ,1
I t understand me. I wish
, ate our won no .
,s 1 merpreter would try and put the question in a
An, II
011. t.. form.—(This address excited considerable laugh-
-14.e
ut en- Lordships.)
lloat'Yoa pttlnterpreter was then placed beside the witness.
all to swear that you were never wore than 24
dick
grog tu44et.c.°'lling up on deck ?—Yes, Sir.
;nue you were on board did you keep watch on
t remember.
W,1,1"1t Only person who watched her Royal High-
4idr y„; did not sleep on deck.
\lrtelt let only, person on deck when you saw the test
mid ttilbere it? don't rem ember.
those
ne
,°.sailors on board this ship ?—There were.
'",rier 'use ,‘" come on duck at night I—Never.
'ealetat'ellent sailors always 'remain below I—This I
W.-nt op. Yr; if they slept in the hold during the night
thZaßt
tki bill
et row if . left to go alone at night without sailors ?—I
ht Bayou Law the sailors were in the held during the night.
AI ttT • the sailors on board during the day ?—Yes, in
hilt n'anY sailors were there on board ?—I cannot
"ler f
Al,
*Ph, You e,
-our?-4 cannot remember.
-4 ear there were not twenty-four ?—I cannot
I,,tt‘le.sr,,q, I:12e was the ship ?—I cannot give any account
td d, '4(
WlltlP"e I have no knowledge of ships.
e, ler there were two or twenty-two sailors on
,11‘1..'isLittelit-e 411"
take upon you to swear ?—No, no, no, 1
het
the owner of the ship.
I,‘V ahY officers belonging to the ship 1-1 can't
11. sl .
Ira, Ik. 'pt „
Ntitow that the place where yon slept below cannot
dt
part
oft slept there, but do not remember who else.
il,4",h,itio sleep ) I,le ressel was it customary for the livery
.t kik. did Is
girlt;.----1/is I don't know.
nlitrt gator sleep during the three voyages
' " sleep yourself I—Below.

Were you ever yourself in the room where the Princess used
to dine I—Yes.
How many doors were there leading from it after you en-
tered ?—This I don't recollect.
Do you not know that there were two rooms communicating
with the dining room don't remember.
Was not the bath taken in the dinii', room itself ?—Not in
the dining room, but in the room beside it.
Oh, then, there was another room leading from the dining
room, which you did not just now recollect I—As soon as you
entered there was a small room from the dieing room, where
the bath was prepared.
How often did the Princess take the bath during the voy-
age I—l cannot swear but to two times. She might have
taken it oftener, but I cannot swear to more.
Was it Bergami's duty to prepare the bath for her Royal
Histlinessr—This I cannot swear, but I believe not.
Whose office was 4?-1 was ordered to carry the water to
the bath.
Did you carry the water to the bath, or only to the door
of the dining-room I—l was ordered to make the bath and to
till the bath with water ; I then called Bergami, who came
down, and put his band in the bath to try its temperature.
I was then ordered to get ready more water in case it might
be required.
Wiieii you called Bergami down was any other person pre-
sent but Bergami and yourself ?—No one else.
Di 4 you not then retire, and *aye Bergami to see whether
the bath was properly heated I—After I called Bergami, and
he had thrust his hand into the bath to see Ivhether it was
sufficiently hot or cold, I was then ordered to retire to pre-
pare more water in case it might be wanted.
To this dining room was there not another room also be-
side the bath room opening ?-1 do not remember.
Will you swear that there were not two rooms leading to
the dining room ; one belonging to the Princess, the other
to the Countess of Oldi ?—I do not remember.
Put you will swear that Catuerari did nut sleep there ?-1
never saw. him.
Did you ever see him during the voyage at all ?—Yes; He
was on board.
Was he not on board, and with her Royal Highness, during
the whole long voyage I—Yes ; but 1 don't remember where
he slept.
Will yots swear that he did not sleep in the dining-room
during the voyage ?—This I cannot swear.
Was he not with her Royal Highness during the whole land
as well as the sea voyage I—He seas.
Was he riot page and courier to her Royal Highness I—l
remember that he was courier; but I do not know whether
he was page.
He was no relation to Bergami ?—This I don't know ; 1
cannot know.
You have said of other persons in her Majesty's suite that
they were relations of Bergaini, became you have heard them
spoken of as such. Was he said in the same way to be a rela-
tioo of Bergami's I—This I never heard.
What maids had her Royal Highness with her during her
long voyage ?—Mademoiselle Dumont and Mademoiselle Julie.
How lung is it since you saw Mademoiselle Dumont I—At
Na p
Where did von last see her ?—At Pesaro; 1114Ve never seen
her since that.
1)0 you know where she is now ?—No.
Do you know whether she is dead or alive ?—No.
Have you ever heard of her since?—`goer.
Hare you ever heard her talked about since ?—Never.
You never heard her name mentioned since you left Pe-
saro ?—I never heard it.
Have you heard Sacehini's name mentioned since you left
Pesaro I—Yes, I have heard his name spoken of.
Where did you see him last ?—I saw hint at the Piazza at
Milan; I never saw hint since that ; possibly I might have
seen him, but I certainly did not speak to him.
Who, or was any one present, but yourself, when you saw
Bergami and your mistress together at breakfast ?—I don't
understand.
You said yesterday you saw them at breakfast together, dial
you or not .—Yes, I have.
Then did any one see them together besides yourself and
Hieronymus ?

The Sowayrott-GENERAL—He has not yet said that Hie-
ronymus saw them with him. I object to the question, unless
you can show that Hieronymus saw them together with the
witness.

Mr. BitououAss—Well, then, I'll put it another way.
Did you see theth ',ourself ?—Yes.
Did Hieronymus see them with you ?—I don't remember.
Was the Countess Oltli there ?—I don't remember.
Was Hieronymus there at the time you saw the Princess
and Bergann together at breakfast ?-1 don't remember.
Then, whether Hieronymus was present or not you emmut
say?-1 cannot.

Who besides yourself was present when you saw Bergami
salute her as they weie going into Sicily?
The Solicitor General.—He said Terracina.
Mr. Brougham.—I thought he said Messina.
Witness.—l said Terracina. There was no one but Berga-
mi, the Princess, and myself.
Who was by, when Bergami saluted her on the occasion of
the Princess's going into Italy at the time of the quarantine ?
There was no one else but the Princess, myself and Bergami.
%Vas it not on deck after dinner that he kissed her?--No;
it was under deck, at Tetracina.
Was it not after ditint, ?—Yes.
Where had they din;:d ?—I don't remember. I know though,
it was after dinner.
Was it i❑ the room where they dined that this took place?
It was after dinner in the dining-room. The Princess was
there ; Ilergami came to take his leave previous to his de-
parture. . .

Were you in the same room with them then ?—T was pre-
sent• There was no one else there, but her Royal Highness,
Bergami, and myself.
When she had the tent on board at night, under which she
slept, did she keep a light hurnime, ?—No, she did not.
You swear that ?—Yes.

Were you at the Villa D'Este soon after you left the ser-
vice of the Princess 1-I'es ; after I left her service at Pesaro
I went there.
Did you go straight from Pesaro ?—Yes, quite direct.
How long was that after leaviog her?-1 don't remember.
Was it days or weeks I—l don't remember the number.
Have you ever been there since that I—Yes, I was there a
second time.l
How long after the first was that I—l don't remember.
Was it months, or weeks ?—Not months; I don't think it
was so much as that.
Did 01, ever apply to get back to the Queen's service after
you left it I—l don't remember.
Did you ever apply to Count Vassali to use Iris influence in
getting you restored don't remember.
Did you ever apply to Bartolomoßerpini for the same pur-
pose ?—Never.
Did you ever apply to Louis Bergami ?—I don't remember.
Did you ever apply to.Saccliiiii to have you brought back ?
—1 did once.
Only once ?—No more.
Where was that ?—At the hotel of Italy.
How long was this after you had left the service of the
Princess don't remember.
Was it a week after I—lt was more than months.
Wil! vou swear it was half a year after I—l can't speak as
to months or days.
Did you ever write a letter to be taken hack, either to
Bartolomo Bergami, Louis Bergami, Count Vassali, or Sac-
chini ?—Never. It is my misfortune not to know much of
writing.—(A laugh.)
Did you get any one else to write a letter for you to Ber-
gami, after leaving the service of the Princess I—Never, as
far as I recollect.
When you did afterwards make application to be restored
at the hotel of Italy, were you not refused I—l don't re-
member.
Were you in fact taken back to the service ?—No, I was not.
Have you ever since been restored in fact ?—I have not.
Was not Sacchini on board the whole of the long voyage to
the East I—Yes, he was on board.
And on shore I—Yes, he came also on shore during the
voyage.
In all the journies by land, did not the Countess Oldi, and
the child Vittorine travel in the same carriage with the Prin-
cess I—Questo non me ricordo.
Was Billy Austin in the same carriage ?—Questo non me
ricordo.
Whose house did she occupy at Carlsruhe ?—Questo non
me ricordo.
Was it an inn, or a private house ?—I believe it was an inn.
Do you not know that it was an apartment in an inn, which
the English Ambassador vacated in order to accommodate
her ?—I don't remember.

Were not Billy Austin, the Countess Oldi, and the child
Vittorine with the Princess on the journey to Carlsruhe 1—
(,luesto non me ricordo.

Will you swear that they were not all there ?—They were
on the journey.
Were they not there the whole time?—They were.
Did they not go every where she went?—They followed the
Princess.
Was not the journey to Baden undertaken by the Princess
in order to pay a visit to the Elector, who was her relation?—
I remember we set out for Baden, but the purpose of the
journey I did not know.
Did nut the Elector wait upon her at Carlsrube, and did

she not go to his Court ?—Questu non me ricordo particular.
Indite (precisely.)
Do yon recollect, that whilst at Baden, she went to Court at
all ?-4-NO, I do not ; but I can't speak of it positively.
Did thelinglish Minister live with her there ?—Questo non
me ricordo.
Did he live in the same house with her ?—Questo non me
ricordo.
Do you remember the name of the English Ambassador ?
Quest. non me ricordo.
You told us of a change having been made in the Villa
d'Este (hiring the Queen's voyages; now, was there not a
new wing added to it ?—Questo non me ricordo.
Do you mean to say, that you don't remember a new wing
being added to the house whilst your mistress was away ?
Questo non me ricordo.
Will you swear that Lieut. Hownam was not present when
Mahomet played those tricks ?—I had not seen him.
Who else was there besides yourself, the Princess, and the
black performer ?—I had not seen any one else.
Were you the person sent to bring this Mahomet ?-1 do
not remember.
In what situation was Mahomet at the time ?—Hc was be-
fore the window of the Princess.
It) what position did you stand ?-1 was on the same side of
the court on which the Princess was looking out of the win-
dow. The Princess was on one side and Nlabomet on the other.
Theo from the position in which you stood you could see
her !royal Highness ?—I could.
And 'do you swear that she could not see you ?—I believe
she could not ; I do nut know that she had seen me.
Who was it that ordered Mahomet to play those tricks 1-1
do not know.
Fur any thing that you know to the contrary there might be
sonic persons in the room standing,- behind her Royal High-
ness?-1 cannot say; I saw the Princess look out of the
window.
Did you never see Mahomet play tricks on any other occa-
sions ?—Yes ; I have seen him play at Barona.
Was her Royal Highness present on that occasion ?—Yes.
What other persons were present ?—There were several ;
but I do not recollect who they were.
Were there not both men and women present? They were
chiefly servants.
Were you in the service of her Royal Highness when the
affair of the Baton Ompteda was under consideration ?
[Here the Solicitor-General objected to this question, •n
the ground that the witness was not to be supposed to know
anv thing of such a person as Baron Ompteda.]
Was there not a person called the Baron Ompteda visiting
the Princess ?-1 do not know of any such person by that
name.
Did yon see a certain Baron at any time at the residence of
her Royal Highness ?—Yes.
Can you state whether it was before you went upon the
long voyage, that you saw the Baton ?—Yes.
Did you see hint dining at table with her Royal Highness ?
—Yes, at the Villa Villani and at Villa D'Este.
Do you know hint to be a German Baron ?-11e might have
been a Prussian.
How do you know whether he was a Prussian or a German,
what was his name ?—1 cannot pronounce his name precise-
ly, because it was an extraordinary name. He was called the
Baron, the Baron.
Was he often at the house of her Royal Highness ?—I re-
member him at her Royal Highness's residence.
What makes you recollect ?-1 don't know.
Was there any noise about this Baron at her Royal High-
ness's house ?—This I do not recollect.
Were you in the service of her Royal Highness at Villa
Villani or d'Este, when a blacksmith was examined respecting
the picking of locks belonging to her Royal Highness ?
This I do nut recollect.
Or about making false keys ?-1 do not recollect.
You never heard coy thing about this circumstance ?—I do
not remember to have heard anything of it.
Du you remember no quarrel between Hieronymus and the
German Baron ?—I heard of the quarrel, but I do not re
member to have heard the cause.
What time did you bear of the quarrel ?-1 du not reco
lest.

About bow long before you left the service of her Royal
Highness, a year, a month, or a week ?—1 do not recollect.
Do you intend to say, that you know not whether it was a
week or two years ?—I do not recollect.
Do you recollect what company came to the theatre, at
which her Royal Hiehness acted twice I—Yes; nut all.
Where; at the Villa d'Este ?-1 don't know.
Did you ever see the Prefect Totnasia and his Lady there ?
—1 don't recollect.
Or Professor Mochetti ?—I remember to have seen Profes-
sor Mochetti there.
Visiting, or at the theatre ?-0n a visit, but not at the
theatre.
Did you ever see General Goubrier and his Lady there
remember to have seen him there accompanied by a lady;
hut Whether his wife or not I cannot tell.
Did you ever see General Pius I—Once, as I recollect.
Used you then wait at table ?—Yes, Sir.
Will you take upon yourself to say, that General Pino,
your old master, had never visited there more than once?—
Once alone that I recollect.
Did you know the persons of the Prefect Tomasia and his
Lady I—Yes.
Did they dine there more than once ?—Not that I recollect.
Did you see him there, besides at dinner ?—Never but
Once.

You never saw him more frequently ?—I remember but once.
Did they attend at the theatre ?--1 don't recollect.
Do you recollect the persons who performed at it ?—No.
Did Hieronymus don't recollect.
Did Cavelleiti ?—1 don't lecollect.
Did you mean to say you never saw any thing represented
but by her Royal Highness and liergami ?—This I don't know,
the moment I entered, 1 saw her !Loyal Highness and Bee-
gami ; I saw not the other people.
What sort of a comedy W7iS it ?—liergami was dressed as a
sailor, and was acting the buffoon with a bladder; when be
saw me, he and her Royal Highness then withdrew.
Did Mahomet perform his dance at the comedy ?—I don't
know.

Where did von go after you quitted the service of her Royal
Highness? —1 became a servant to the Marquis Odescalchi.
Hon- long after you had quitted the service of her Royal
Highness ? —Five months.
How long did you remain its the service of the Marquis
Odescalchi?—About a year.
All that time in Italy ?—tio ; partly in Germany, at Vienna.
How soon after you had entered the Marquis's service (lid
you go to Germany ?—Two or three months ; I cannot pre-
cisely recollect to a day; but it was thereabouts.
How long did you remain at Vienna?—About six or seven
months; I cannot precisely speak as to the number of days.
What were your wages by the year ?—At Milan 50 soldi per
day; at Vienna four livres.
How many suldi in a litre ?—Twenty.
What was the reason of your wages being raised at Vienna ?
—Because I was obliged to procure dinner at my own cost.
What wages did you receive from her Royal Highness ?
Every three months I received 29 ducats.
How many livres in a ducat ?—I do nut precisely know; I
believe about eq.
You had therefore, while in the service of her Royal. High-
ness, those 29 ducats every three months, and board'—Yes.
Had you any perquisites or other advantages beside, while
you were in her Royal Highness's service ?—I don't recollect.
Was her Royal fligliness kind to her servants ?—She was
kind.hearted and familiar.
M the Marquis Odescalchi's you had to cook for yourself ?
—I was provided with souse food.
The Interpreter here explained to their Lordships the de-
scription of food; he designated it a species of hodge-podge,
without meat.
You made a small fortune while in the service of her Royal
Highness ?-1 saved 700 livers.
How soon ?—lts three years.
Did you save any thing while at the Marquis Odescalchi's?
I contrived to save a little fur my family.
What family have you ?—.l wife and two daughters.
How old are your daughters ?—One of them is nine years
old ; the other is ;shout two (sod a half or three years.
What time did you enter the service of the Marquis Odes-
calchi ?—About two years ago.
Into whose family did you enter after you left it ?—into the
Ambassador's at Vienna.
What is his name ?—Lord Stewart.
What Ambassador's ?—The English.
In what capacity, as a valet, a lacqney, or a postillion ?
Lord Stewart only gave me my subsistence.
Do you intend to say that
you were attached to the Em-
bassy ?—I was always at the nillassador's house.
As a secretary or as a friend ?—N“.
Do you speak to him?—No, but to his Secretary.
When did you first see him ?—I don't recollect.
What was his name ?—Colonel Mend.
An Italian or Englishomo ? —I don't know.
What language did he speak ?—French.
Do you know Colonel Brown ?—I do.
Englishman ?—I don't know.
Italian
r
you first see Colonel Brown ?—At Milan.
t%'hWhatWhich
is he,
gaen to, %lint Eo
you?—French.
Where did
Did you see him when you were in the service of Marquis
Odescalchi ?—I was not at service when 1 first saw him. I
had left that of the Marquis.

Did you leave the Marquis Odescalchi before you saw Cul.
Brown ?—I went front Vienna to Milan.
With, or to Col. Brown ?—To him.
With whom did you go ?—With my father.
When did you go front Vienna ?—On the 13t't of August,
three years ago.
In Isl.'''. ?—Yes.
What year did you leave her Royal Highness ?—ln 1917.
What month ?—( don't recollect.
Summer or Winter ?—Summer, I think about the beginning.
How long after you quitted her Rural Highness did
,you go
to Vienna?—About live or six months.
The Lonn CHANCELLOR intimated to their Lordsh.ps that
four o'clock had arrived, the hour which had heel, spejned as
that at which their Lordships were to adjourn.
Mr. Brougham—" May 1 implore your Lordships not to
stop short at this critical period of the cross-examination of a
witness, upon whose testimony su much filepends."—(Cries of
Gu on, gu ott.)
Some of their Lordships expressed a wish to learn at what
time the Learned Counsel would undertizhe to terminate.
Mr. Brougham—" My Lords, it is hard for me to specify
any time. There are many of your Lordships who nut be-
longing to the profession are perhaps ignorant of the great
importance of not interrupting the cross-examination of a
witness. One answer unexpectedly given has caused me to
proceed a full half hour."—(Cries of Go on, go o❑ !)
Was your father in the service of the Marquis Odescaichi ?
—No.

Was your father in the service of any person ?—My father.
came to me at Vienna.
Who sent him ?—I don't know.
What is your fat herl—A carter or charioteer.
Does he carry trom Milan to Vienna I—No.
How came he to come to Vienna; on what business?—To
take use from Vienna to Milan.
When your father came to Vienna, were you living in the
house of the Ambassador ?—No.
Were you supported at the house of the Ambassador ?—No.
In whose service were you then I—ln that of the Marquis
Odescalchi.
When your father came to Vienna, did you see Colonel
Durini or Colonel Brown saw Colonel Durini at Vienna,
and Colonel Brown at Milan.
What induced you to leave the service of the Marquis ?
My father told me to go to Milan, and as my fattier desired
me to go, I went.
For what reason I—Colonel Brown wished to speak to me.
Did you not know that your bread depended upon your con-
tinuing in the service of the Marquis Odescalchi
Well you went to speak to Colonel Brown ?—Yes, Sir.
So if Colonel Brown would hid you conic from Vienna to
Milan to speak to him you would conic ?—(Cries of Order !)
Mr. BROUGLJAM—." My Lords, I have to implore your
Lordships to suffer the cross-examination to proceed, parti-
cularly in a case on which that which is dearer than life,
the honour of my Illustrious Client, is concerned. 17pun this
cross-examination much depends in order to dispel the charges
of a foul conspiracy. In this House I see Learned Judges,
who, by their cross-examining witnesses, have saved the lives
of men front being sacrificed to base conspiracies. They know
the value of a cross•examination, and will your Lordships
prevent it from being conducted as it ought ?"—(Gu on,
go on !)
Question repeated. When my father bade me I would go.
So, if your father would bid you go to Col. Black as well
as to Col. Brown you would go ?
The Solicitor-General objected to this question as hypo-
thetical, and as not strictly
Mr. Brougham said that he should therefore put it in ano-
ther form.
Did you ever before go on a similar occasion to Col. Brown ?
Never before my fattier desired me to come to him.
Had you ever seen Col. Brown before you went to Milan
to speak to him I—Never.
How did you support yourself noon the journey from Vienna
to Milan ?—My father paid my expences.
Has he made a fortune as a carrier?—No; he has made no
fortune.
Has your father any more money than what he makes front
day to day by his trade. I don't know.
Did you live comfortable on your journey to Milan I—We
wanted nothing.
By what conveyance did you travel ?—ln a small calash.
When you came to Milan, did your fattier introduce you to
Colonel Brown, so as to speak to him?—Yes.
Did you complain to him of having lost a good place in con-
sequence of your coming to Milan don't recollect.
Did you make a bargain with the Marquess Odescalchi to
return to his service upon going back to Vienna 1-1 don't
recollect.
Have you any doubt upon the subject ?—I don't recollect.
Have you since been in the service of the Marquis Odescal-
chi I—Yes.
When did you go hack into his service ?—I never went hack-
into the Marquis's service. When I went hack to Vienna I .
was asked if 1 would accompany the Marquis into Hungary,
whither he was going into the country.
What, as a friend upon a hunting partyl—No ; I was asked
if I would accompany hint tot three mouths as a cook.
Did you go for nu wages I—He made me a present; I was
not in his service.
Was the Marquess a friend to the English Ambassador ?
I don't know.
Did you never see hint at the English Ambassador's house ?
—I don't know.
How long since you returned front Hungary?—Last year,
after August or September.
How did you support yourself front Vienna to Milan, and
afterwards upon your return to Vienna ?—The Ambassador
gave me money to live upon.
Did he give any thing upon your going to Milan don't
know.

Who paid the expences of your father ?-1 dont't know.
How did you go ?—By post.
How, both times ?—No.
How the second time ?—By the veturino.
Who gave you money to pay for yourself ?—Col. Brown.
Has your father come to this country ?—Yes.
Has your wife ?—Yes.
Have you children ?—No,
Vat is the name of the hotel at which you remain in Lon-
don ?-1 don't know.
After some further questions respecting the
Witness's present place of residence, which he
could not answer,
Lord FaLmount, from the gallery, asked,
whether the cross-examination was nearly con-
cluded ?—(Cries of " Go on.")—Supposing that
the business would close to-day at four o'clock,
he had made a private engagement accordingly,
though lie was quite ready to sit till 6 or 7
o'clock, if necessary.
Lord DONOUGHMORE thought the rule, if
made, ought to be adhered to. Nobody could
tell whether the cross-examination might not
last two hours more. He thought that the wit-
ness deserved protection, and that some part of
the cruss-examination might have been spared.
Ile moved an adjournment.
Earl GREY had seen nothing in the disposition
of the House not to give protection to the wit-
ness. Very material questions to elicit the truth
had been put, and he thought that no rule could
be more injurious than one which forced the
House to separate at a critical moment, by which
the ends of justice might be defeated. If a rule
were made, he hoped it would be extended to
live o'clock.
Lord FALMOUTH added, that he had not inter-
posed till half past four.
The Loan CnANcELLoa was in favour of ad-
hering to the rule. lie had not entered the
House this morning till five minutes- past 10, in
consequence of consulting with the Judges on a
matter of life and death ; and their farther deli-
beration had been postponed till after the ad-
journment to-day. It was impossible to know
what questions might turn out to be material or
immaterial. Adjourning at five o'clock would
gain six hours in the week, and that he consi-
dered a very material acquisition.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL did not object to five
o'clock being fixed in future as the hour of ad-
journment.
The House adjourned at a quarter before five
o'clock, with the understanding that ut future
they were to sit till five.