The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-30 00:00:00

SUN. LONDON. SATURDAY EVENING. JULY 30, 184

eumstances roiatd in tire petition, to only a few of
which he (Mr. Hume) would allude then.
He stated that in 1836 he was accused of plotting against
the British Government, but his whole life ought to have
been a sufficient answer to such an accusation, that, the
Governor of Bombay was empoweredtoproeure eVidenii!e
against him, as having violated the treaty. which, he had
entered into, but he referred to Residents Duff,
Bing, and Robinson, in testimony of its faithful
observance ; that he was accused of conspiring against
the British Government, and entering into a treaty
with the Portuguese Government, to procure three
thousand troops from Goa ; that an inquiry was
instituted, which was kept a secret from him; and that,
notwithstanding, the whole evidence against him was
declared to be worthless. He stated that his principal
servant was seized and imprisoned; that he was kept
for twenty-two months in prison, in a state of torture,
till he -signed a document to save his life ; that the
charge of procueing 30,000 troops from Goa was so ab-
surd that the House could not give a credence ; that he never
had more than 1,500 troops. and that to attempt any
such proceeding' as he was charged with, was totally at
variance with his character ; that his brother was
placed in his stead on the throne, who was proved,
under his own handwriting, to have conspired to
injure the interest of the India Company ; that
he (the Raja of Sattara) had private property to
the amount of 350,000/. taken from him ; that
•he was seized by the orders of Sir J. Carnac,
in his palace, to which he was never after allowed to re-
turn, and that he suffered all these losses upon the vague
charge of bringing troops from Goa, whilst he was never
heard in his own defence. He, therefore, solicited from the
• House a consideration-of his case, and an investigation into
the treatment which he had received ; that the vast
power of England need fear no alarm, and that
it would tarnish the glory of her Majesty's
reign if an individual, once her Majesty's faithful
ally, now her prisoner, did not receive her protection.
That was the petition which he had received, and as it
was one of importance he begged to bring it up; and to
move that it be printed.
NOTICES OF MOTION.
Mr. FUME said that, on Thursday next it would be
his duty to bring the subject of the petition which he had
just presented, before the House.
Dr. BOW RIN G gave notice that he would move early
next session for the re-appointment of the Select Com-
mittee appointed in 1837, to inquire into the mode in
which the accounts of the colonies were kept, with the
view to some alteration.
The Hole. MEMBER also have notice, on the part of the
Hon. Mem,:er for Greenock,h that he would move fin-
a Select Committee to inquire into the official duties ef
the Lord Advocate.
Mr. lIUME gave notice that ke would move for a re-
turn to show how 60,000/., granted to those engaged. in
the battle of Navarine, was distributed.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE gave netiee that he should, on
Monday, move to refer the petition of Dr. M•Doutill and
the inhabitants .4 .Deptford to a Select Committee, and
that the CoMmittee should.repurt thereon to the House.
PUBLIC MONUMENTS.
Mr. HAWES • gave notice of his intention, on the
;notion of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Wiltshire
being submitted to the House for the erection of a =-
raiment to Sir Sydney Smith, to move that the names
of Watt, Herschell, and Davy, he added.
SOUTHAMPTON ELECTION.
-Mr. MACKINNON stated di:A, agreeably to• the
notice he had given, it had been his intention to move
for the new writ for Southampton ; but in consequence
of it having been intimated to him that it weuld be
more convenient that the Committee of Supply should
be first disposed of, he would postpone his motion till
after the Committee of Supply had been gone through.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE hoped that the Hon. Member
would name some specific day on which to make his
motion. He had a petition from Sciuthampton, praying
the suspension of the writ, which he would now present.
The Hon. Member having presented the petition,
Mr. MACKINNON observed that he would bring the
subject forward after the Committee of Supply had been
disposed of.
Sir J. EASTHOPE wished to know whether it was
competent for the Hon. Member to fix his own time to
bring forward such a motion ?
The SPEAKER said that it was perfectly comp2tent
,7,11 the part of any Member to move, at any time, the
isst7e of a writ.
NOTTINGHAM ELECTION.
Mr, S. CRAWFORD said that he had also a motion
on the patter for the issuing of a new writ for Notting-
ham. But is it appeared to be the wish of the House
that the Com:nittee of Supply should be proceeded with
first, he would k.,ostpone the motion till after the Com-
mittee of Supply.
Mr. V. SMITH wf.'hed to know what course the Go-
vernment intended to pursue after the disposal of the
Committee of Supply ?
Sir R. PEEL said that of course those Hon. Mem-
bers who had postponed their motions, in order that
the Committee of Supply might be proceeded with,
would have the preference of bringing those measuses
forward after the Committee of Supply had been gone
through.
Mr. O'CONNELL trusted that no measure of import-
ance would be allowed to be brought forward at a late

hour.
Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD said he found that se-
veral Hon. Gen tlemen objected to his moving fer the Not-
tingham writ at for the Committee of Supply. He had no
desire to do an vi bittg hostile to her Majesty's Ministers,
but it was import ant, under the circumstances, that he
should proceed to move for the writ then.
Sir ROBERT PEAL said the motion would take the
precedence of other bueiteess.
Mr. T. DUNCONIB E said he hoped that his Hon.
Friend would pemevere in the motion. The Hon. Mem-
ber opposite (Mr. Mackinnon) had consented to postpone
I is motion, and mow it wag to be postponed again.
Sir R. PEEL deought that no Member had a right to
bring forward a n loam) without notice. There was no
notice of the motif m for the Southampton writ,
Air. MACKIN:NON—I gave notice a-week ago.
Sir R. PEEL—Then it was not on the paper.
An Hon. Member might. certainly give notice at four
o'clock that he intended to bring fin-ward a motion. He
could do that oF right, but it was not in contermity with
the practice of tire House, and he should be exceedingly
sorry to see that, right often exercised. He thought these
notices were for mutual b nefit—Hear hear)—read he
did not think that it would be for general coovenience
that motions should be brought forward without notice.
Ile hoped his Hen. ;Friend would give notice for Monday
next for the Souther npten writ._
The SPEAKER, ,said the Right Hon. Gentleman had
misunderstood him. The question which had been asked
was, whether the Hon . Member could move for the writ.
He (the Speaker) sa,:d it was perfectly competent for
any Hon. Member to tnove for a new writ at any time
without notice. He diet not think it was competent to
a Member to give notice at four o'clock. That would
not be a notice. If he ,gave notice it must be for a
future day, and not the Sane day.
Sir R. PEEL said it appeared that notice had been
given for the Southampton writ, but it did not appear
on the paper. He was referriesg to the metier as a
dropped order.
Mr. Tif.ACKINNON thought it right to explain one
circumstance. On Monday he postponed the Southatnp-
ton writ, And he did not think it was nocessary for him
to renew Ids notice. He was not aware that it was ne-
cessary. But he most distinctly stated on Monday last
that he sihould bring on the Southampton writ this
evening. He did not wish to interfere with the
public business _in taking the writ previous to the Com-
mittee of Supply. If the Right Hon. Gentleman wished
him to postpone the writ to Monday, he would have it dis-
tinctly understood Oat he should bring the motion fur-
ward at half-past finer on Monday.
Mr. R. YORKE helped the discussion would take pre-
cedence of all other motions on Monday, as it was a
matter of great import: uice.
DANISH CLAIMS.
Mr. HUTT rose, but be was rendered almost inaudible
from the noise occasioned by Members leaving the
House. He said he would detain the House a
very short time: He could assure the House that
it was with considerable reluctance that he had
been led to. bring on a new subject at so
late a period of the session, but the parties %rho had en-
trusted the ca se to his hand's, felt that their interests
would be prejueliced by delay. The Danish claims had
existed since 1207. In that yoar an expedition was
fitted out, for the purpose of guarding the Danish
fleet, by this Government. The Danish Government
naturally felt exasperated by such a proceeding,
and reprisals took place, and the Danish Government
confiscated, the book debts of certre;n British subjects ;
and, pro seeding further, they seized all British
vessels at td British cargoes, which they were en-
abled to !lay their hands upon. In regard to the first
of these, compensation had beat granted ; but
the Crown had rgused to make compensation to the
other parties, on the ground that they were involved. in
the same. ituation as the subjects of all other nations,
whose property tell i'nto the hands of enemies :hand,
t the
first- outbreak of .a war. On the oth
these parizies said this was not a true description
of the ens e, as the tear had not taken taken place
at the tame of the cap tare of their property, and
they wcre not apprised whether they were reprisals.
That weer the, view taken b: v the claimants themselves,
and that; was the light ift which he looked at that
subject. The point for the consideration of the House
was, whether or not tbu eotr, -se that had been pursued
was a declaration of war, —(H ar, hear.) It had
been tnaintained that the Covernment of Denmark
was, at the period to which he alluded, at war with the
Goverranent. of this country ;
-:that the Danish Govern-
ment had seized upon British property by way of
reprisals, an d that therefore vat* had commenced be-
tween the two States. Theo late Attorney-Gene-
ral the Mi %tuber for Worce cter, who had made
the most el :borate and coral Ilete defence of this
case, was of ppinion the war* bad actually com-
menced. But ; unfortunately for .I,is Learned Friend's
argument, in a such document as NO been alluded
to had been, found in the effice. It was true
that a docu te tent had been found i v the office
which was o msidered as a declaraCon of war,
but the docume n was not looked upon by the Sovereign
of Denmark, ex the people of that eonntry, es such a
declaration. T hat document emanated from ;1 small
town in Devil nark, and it was signed otily by
the authoriiiet ; of that town. It was the.-efore
with great astonishment that he had he'erd
his Learned I h iend the late Attorney-General descri:V
that document ins a declara,4,ion of war, It was not con-
sidered so by I )e.emark nor ay
the authorities inthis corm
try. Now, wit) t r..!spect to. -the facts of the case. A Danish
-
vessel, called she Orion, vas captured in the year 1807,
and the subj ect of the legality of the capture was
brought befo. re the Ad niralty shortly afterwards.
Lord Stowell lea': decided that any vessel taken previous
to the month of Novemh I- was not a prize of war.
Neither the Dani: 1r Goya mment nor the British Go-
vernment had ever consider ed that we had been at war
previous to the de claratio4 t of war by the Govern-

diem, (if ieent eee.. ii that were the case, lie
contended that the parties now in question were
justly entitled to the compensation which they
sought. But even though they had not each a title as'
could be strictly enforced, the House would recollect,
that the equitable right of the parties had been admitted
by thernielves upon various occasions: He really thought
they would now be hardly justified in reversing their own
repeated decisions. And after the House had allowed
the claims, it would not become the Government
of this great country to shelter themselves under forms
or technicalities in refusing them. They should con-
sider what was due to the dignity of the House of Com-
mons, and not decline to accede to the repeated mani-
festations of its wishes. He would not press the subject
further upon that occasion. He should only say
that' if compensation were denied to these parties,
such a course would be discreditable to the Go-
vernment, unworthy of the character of Parliament.
and would remain a scandal on the annals
of this country. lie would say no more upon the sub-
ject, and would not press any motion respecting it. - He
should not have brought the matter under the conside-
ration of the House that evening, in the midst of the
many public questions which called for their immediate
deliberation, and in the present unsettled State of
their finances, were it not that the parties interested
felt that their case might be prejudiced by
observing a total silence. He had introduced
the subject, principally. for the purpose of reserving the
rights of parties, and in order that it might not be sup-
posed upon any future occasion that they had abandoned
their claims.
Mr. HUME was glad that his Hon, Friend did not
intend to press his motion. In seconding that motion
he was anxious to make one or two observations. This
question was one in which the national honour
was concerned, and it had been longer before
the House than any other. Twenty-three years
ago he (Mr. Hume) had first divided in favour of these
claims. Then the whole of the claims were refused.
Since then, after a lapse of twenty years, two-thirds or
those claims had been granted, and one-third only now
remained. After three decisions of the House in
favour 4,f those clainis, faith ought to have been
kept with the claimants. He thought that both
the late Government and the present Government in
refusing justice to these claimants, were wrong. If there
were any error in regard to dates, that ought not to stand
in the way of their doing justice. In the estimates
for the present year they had voted a sum of
10,000/. to settle some Portuguese claims, which
were due in 1810. Therefore, the length of time which
had elapsed ought not to prevent justice from being done.
Her Majesty's Government were willing to pay
away money where there was no claim, but
they refused to pay a just claim. This • obstinate
denial of justice was discreditable to the Government.
They had voted a sum to liquidate the claims of M.
Sampayo, which had accrued from 1808 to 1814. There
had been no objection made to pay the foreigner, why
should there be any objection to pay the English claimants?
He hoped that the Government would see the pro-
priety of taking the question into their serious consi-
deration before the next session, and would
pay the last third due- to the Danish claimants ;
who would, even if that was paid, suffer severe loss,
inasmuch as they would only have been paid the princi-
pal, and have lost the interest for thirty-five years.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, un-
derstanding that the Honourable Gentleman had
brought forward his motion merely with a view
of entering his protest; thought discussion unne-
cessary at present, and would therefore not
enter into the merits of the. case. He (the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer) had already expressed his opi-
nion on those claiMs, which expression of opinion had
not been given merely since he sat on that side of
the House, for when he had sat on the other side
he had supported the then Chancellor of the Exchequer
in his opposition to these claims. He agreed with the
Hon. Member fur Montrose, that if a claim was a just
one, length of time could be no bar to it.; admission, but
he could not agree that because they had voted a emu
of money to M. Sampayo, that, theref4o, -they ought
to vote a sum of money to the Danish claimants. The
claim of M. Sa:npayo was admitted, ; the
only question in debate was as to amount, in the
ascertaining of which time of course had been occupied.
The discussion of the Danish claims rested upon a dif-
ferent footing. He could not admit the justice of those
claims. The concession of them would involve the
country in incalculable expense on some future
occasion.—(Hear, hear.) He could not find anything
in the law of nations to justify th::se claims. When the
Hon. Gentleman brought the subject before the House,
he would go fully into it ; but understanding that the
Hon. Gentleman did not mean to press his motion, he
would not go further into the question, which could only
be further discussed to the interruption of other business.
The motion was then withdrawn.
SINGING CLASSES.
Lord PALMERSTON wished to ask, in reference
to what had fallen from the Right lion. Baronet the
other evening, whether it was his intention to propose
any grant in the supplemental estimates for the singing
classes in Exeter Hall.
Sir R. PEEL would repeat the observation he had
made on a former occasion, in reference to these
classes, which were principally for the instruction of
schoolmasters in singing.--(Hear.) In his opinion
it would be a great public advantage to afford increased
encouragement to the education of those persons in
singing ; but lie was not prepared to move any specific
vote for that purpose during the present year.
There were various claims from different parts of the
country on the subject : it was one that required inve.ti-
gation and consideration, and the Government would
not be prepared to propose any grant this year.
AMERICAN CORN.
Me. THORNELY said he had received statements
from several merchants connected with -the American
trade. It seemed that they had learned from the reports
of the debates in Parliament, that the Right Hon.
Baronet (Sir R. feel) lied lately assrearted, on the autho-
rity A* Mr. I\l‘Culloch, that no get amouf corn
could be imported from America, and that the principal
importation, into this country would be from Dasttzic.
lhese merchants stated they laboured under great dieted-
vantages from the operation of the sliding scale. They-
also wished the Government to be reminded that there
was a paper laid on the table of the House in February
last, from which, it appeared that the exports of the
United States, from the year 1790 to the year 1838,
-Of wheaten flour alone had been 1,100,000 barrels per
annum ; and they state that if they were exempt from
the operation oldie sliding scale they could supply this
country with a considerable quantity of provisions. One
of these gentlemen stated that he would import corn if
there were a fixed duty, but that now not knowing
whether the duty would be Bs. or 18s. per quarter, he
did not venture to import it. It had been said, on the
authority of Mr. M`Culloch, that America herself had
imported corn, but that occurred only in the year 1837;
and then it imported only 500,000 quartets;
that was an unusual circumstance, and even at
that time exportation was going in many. of
the American ports. He had thought it right
to make these statements because many gentlemen
had been under the apprehension that the Government
had nut properly considered the subject. He was sure
that the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Govern-
ment must be as anxious as any to increase our trade
with the United States of America.
Sir R. PEEL said of course he could only answer for
himself. and this would be admitted by the Hon. Gentle-
man, that supposing in any one year, from particular cir-
cumstances, there should be a failure of the harvest in
America, and they should import corn to any great
ektent, no inference could be drawn from this
casual circumstance. It was of great importance
that they should extend their trade with the
United States ; but there was this inconvenience in dis-
cussing- these questions in the House of Commons, that
when any one corrected what he considered an exagge-
rated statement, he was supposed to entertain an opinion
the very opposite to it. Thus, because he had doubted
some statements of the probable amount of the
importation of corn from America, it was thought he
had been represented as believing that no corn would be
imported at all front that country, and that he had told
the agricultural interest that no such importation would
take place He believed the statement to be an exagge-
ration, and that was all the observation he had made.
He did not entertain the opinion that had been as-
cribed to him, for he believed that flour would be
brought into this country from the United States under
the existing law, and in considerable quantities ; and he
should be sorry if the law should interfere with the
trade in flour and provithms between the two countries.
Mr. EWART said he had understood the Right Hon.
Baronet to say that considerable quantities of ,torn and
flour would be imported from America under the exist-
ing law. .Now if -the law did not have that effect, they
should have a claim on the Right Hon. Baronet for the
re-consideration of that law. • He should bear in mind the
declaration the Right Hon. Baronet had made this day.
Mr. WILLIAMS said that from what he had seen of
the country, he believed that a considerable quantity
of flour and provisions, the produce of the western States,
would be brought in. But of course the cost of
the transit would be very great. It was not generally
known that the Americans were the largest consumers
of artic:es of clothing in the world. They were the best
clothed people he ever saw, and he had been through
m
eclof the countries of Europe. An American would
deprive 'himelf of almost any comfort rather than not
be well dressed according to the average opinion. There
never was a more favourable period for their entering
into a commercial treaty
chwith America. AMerica wes•
a ange in •her tariff; but there
ov,nosthoe
seoenogfw piiiiit(knhgithis
thieve e
omoonsttr, anxious
and
if. her
earn
Majesty'si e reased
inter:
Thee
establish a favourable treaty of commerce.
Government encouraged that disposition they could
SUPPLY.
Mr. GREENE in the Chair.
st::ouse then went into a Committee of Supply,
On the vote of 70,000/. for the civil contingencies being
proposed.
Mr. 'WILLIAMS said that there were many of the
items. which composed this sum, which he could not pass
by without notice. The first item he objected to was
that of 96L, for defraying the expenses of the Bishop of
Exeter to the Scilly islands. The passage, at the ut-
most, would not take more than twenty-tour hours, and
here was a sum of 481. a day to defray hie conveyance,
whilst, he believed, he received 6,00 C/. a year from his
see. He thought it would be well for the Bishop to read
the Scriptures, and see how the Apostles acted. He
teKdeotton,i6sv:oolepsreefomebfer.ivethde3o7oooeorlt.aianymeeanrtsfrotmo ttlre.
vtwheaF
shortn 1 oe
Dnetxletheosbsjeocf
country.woeffethrie:er: was next a sum of 20/. 55., for the con
Jerusalemeompared
wtiotheTtehffaat
p;
awidhifcohr
passage of the Bishop of Exeter, The next
item was 2351., tor certain voyages on the Lakes of Ca-
nada,perforined by Lord Sydenham, who received 7,000/
a year. By doing away with the Embassies to Sardinia
and Tuscany, a saving of 5,000/. would be effected.
There was then a charge of 87/, sos,, for entertaining

the Crown Prince of Bavaria from Athens to An-
cona. He did not see why the people of this coun-
try should be taxed for the entertainment of
such a Prince. There -mos then- another • charge
of 3341., for defraying the expanses. of eMres Robert
StewarL her Majesty's- Charge do Affaires foil New
Grenada, from Liverpool. —Now, he. had gone that distance,
himself;-and-lee eionld ..not conceive how side art -exierse,
had been incurred. Many sal the other items were r qually
extravagant and uncalled for. He found an item of 500/.
allowed to Sir George Arthur for the expenses of his pas-
sage home from Canada. Now -he "(Mr. Williams) con-
tended it was impossible that Sir G. Arthur could have spent
such a sum. A sum of 4221. was allowed for the robes and
collars of the Knights of the different Orders. Now he
contended that that was a charge which should never
have been borne by the public. There was an item of
559/. allowed to Mr. Walker for works connected with the
Caledonian Canal. Now he certainly thought that that item
should have been placed among the expenses connected with
the Canal, and not among the present estimates. In the same
way he found in those estimates an allowance for carrying into
effect the arrangements connected with the penny-postage,
which should be placed under the head of the 'Post-office de-
partment. He found that a sum of 923/. was allowed to Lord
Campbell for the expenses of his outfit to Ireland as Lord
Chancellor. Now he (Mr. Williams) contended that the pub-
lic had no right to be saddled with such a charge as that.
There was one other item, with which he did not intend to find
fault, but. he thought there might he some new regulation with
respect to it. The item was 3401. to Sir Thomas Richer ; he
had no objection to the item, as it was deserved by Sir Thomas
Richer, for his services to the public ; but he (Mr. Williams)
thought that there should be offices for such persons to fill.
Colonel SIBTUORP said these things were the acts
of the late Government, and the Honourable Gentleman had
supported them in and out of office. Look at the expenses they
had caused. He had often complained of their -innumerable
Commissions. He had a great objection to the whole of those
Commissions, and he could wish to see them burnt, as some of
them had been. He never saw such a profligate Government,
and he hoped he never should see another. He was surprised
that the Hon. Member for Coventry should still sit behind that
Government when they were disgraced. —(Laughter.) The
Hon. Gentleman had missed one item of their work, and that
was the imperial penny postage job.—(Laughter.) Then
there was the item to Mr. Rowland Hill of 1,5001., and the
item to Mr. Cole. But the greatest of all was the Mont-
eagle job, added to the Campbell job—a pretty pair. With re-
gard to the outfit for Lord Campbell, he thought that the
articles purchased with that money ought to be returned
and sold.—( A laugh.) They would produce but little, but
in the present exhausted state of the Treasury the smallest
deflation would be thankfully received—(ot laugh)—or
they might be kept a; an exhibition, to show the
job which had been perpetrated. If the Hon. Gentleman would
divide the House against that vote, he would divide with him.
Doubtless, he should be told, as he had been when he had ob-
jected to the vote of 16,000/. to the Memleer for 13olton for his
expenses in his travels, that the money had been paid. The
grant was a gross and unpardonable grant., and he looked for
present Government. If
something
not have his
,support.,-.
'dsfor a low, niggardly eco-
yetdhidi
(Oppositionn ng ot bettercd hoeeerfstrt.ocr beg
ee
yilwlaassj
isootutyl
eco-
nomy, but he was for a proper economy. This expense had
been incurred after that House had come to a vote of want of
confidence in the late Government, and it was disgraceful.
Sir C. NAPIER said he could not at all understand the al-
lowance of 96/. for a visit, to the Scilly Islands. He had carried
Governors and Commissioners on variotts occasions, and had
always found the sum allowed most ample. He thought the
sum required explanation.
Sir GEORGE CLERK said the charge was one which
was made in 1538. He believed the Bishop, accompanied by
several other persons went to make a visitation to the Scilly
Islands. It was not fair to say that he went merely on a
voyage which would occupy two days. It was perfectly clear
that the expense must depend greatly tipon the length of time
during which the Bishop was engaged in performing his visi-
tation. With regard to the payment of 500/. to Captain
Pringle, that officer accompanied Lord Sydenham to Canada,
at his Lordship's particular request, mid having remained there
a year, the Secretary of State fir the Colonies, certified that
in his opinion 500/. was a fair compensation for his services.
With regard to the part of the vote for the management of the
Poet-office, he stated that the first agreement with Mr. Row-
land Hill to superintend his system of postage was for two
years ; the present Government renewed that engagement for
one year more, which would -expire at the end of the present
quarter,ewhen Mr. Rowland 11.1.1 would be informed that it
was not necessary that his services should be continued. The
system was now so perfect that the authorities, both at the
Post-office and the Treasury, were quite competent to carry it
on without his superintendence.
After a few words from Colonel Siamese and Mr. B.
WALL, which were inaudible,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the
late Government thought it fit that a steam-boat should be
provided for conveying the Bishop of Exeter to the Scilly
Islands.
Mr. HUME believed that no individual who was ever em-
ployed in the public service had been worse paid than his Hon.
Friend, the Member for Bolton. He was only paid at the
same rate as other Commissioners, but, contrary to the usual
practice, he never was paid a shilling except when on actual
duty ; and lie (Mr. Home) knew that there was a balance now
due to the Hon. Gentleman, who never had been paid, very
much, as he (Mr, Hume) thought, to the discredit cf the late
Government. (The Hon. Member then objected to a viriety
of items included in this grant, and requested an explanation of
certain of them, more particularly the sum of 20,000/. for
postages, and the extra expenses of the Foreign Ministers.)
Sir GEORGE CLERK explained, but was inaudible.
Lord PALMERSTON said if Hon. Members were aware
of the practical utility of civil mi.sions they surely would not
object to any expenses that might be incurred in carrying
them out.—( Cheers.) With regard to what had been said
re:ative tote claim of his Hon. Friend for Belton, it was
quite true that there was a suns due to him which had not been
paid by the late Government. He was not aware of any reason
for rot satisfying the Hon. Gentleman's &aim, and he (Lord
Palmerston) far one should suppOrt any vote for his payment.
—( Hear, hear.) The House was probably aware that the
amounts fixed on the civil list were only the salaries of the
Ministers, and did not include any incidental expenses such as
messengers, carriers, postages, &c. He (Lord Palmerston)
had, whn in office, reduced the salaries of those employed on
.the diplomatic service considerably, and he believed their sala-
ries were now quite as low as those of the Ministers of France,
Austria, and other parts. He was firmly convinced,
with regard to our diplomatic services, that no Go-
vernment in Europe—no Government in the world,
was so well served as 'the Government of this country
' had been during the time he had a knowledge of the manner
in which they had performed their services. The expenses
of postage were also fixed according to a certain regulation.
BOWRING wished to call the attention of the House
to the importance of having direct communication with the
Turklith Government:. believed, at that moment, they had
no means of holding any intercourse with the-Sovereign, except
by the agency of-strangers, and he thought that was a state of
things which ought to be remedied. The state of things at
present was very unsatisfactory. Many of the families from which
the dragomans were taken, had reached a state of opulence,
and the interests of the country, and one or two others, were
entirely in their hands.
Sir R. PEEL said circumstances had lately occurred which
showed that an improvement had taken place, and that this
country was net now entirely dependent on the dragomans.
Dr. BOWRING was convinced if English feelings were
represented by English manners in oriental countries the best
results would be effected.
Lord PALMERSTON believed that the foreign dragomans
who had been in the service had performed their duty in a
most proper manner.
Sir C. NAPIER said he observed that a sum of 1,600/. was
set down as an allowance for the Commissioners for the settle-
ment of Portuguese claims. It appeared to him that it would
lie better to allow those gentlemen a certain sum in case the
claims were finally adjusted than to grant them a yearly allow-
ance. He would also suggest that captains of steam-
boats generally at anchor in any port should be allowed an
additional sum for the increased expenditure to which their
position necessarily subjected them.
Sir ROBERT PEEL had heard many complaints of delay
and dilatoriness. He had requested his Noble Friend the Secre-
tary of State for Foreign Affairs to make inquiries on the sub-
ject, and he believed that no unnecessary delay had been inter-
posed. In fact he was satisfied that the utmost diligence had
been used by the Commissioners. The claims were, some of
them, of a very peculiar nature. Some most extravagant
demands had been made. It was but just, both to the claimants
themselves and to the Portuguese Government. that these claims
should be strictly examined and scrutinized oetore they were
admitted. He was not inclined to interfere with the Com-
missioners.
After &few- words from Sir G. Cooouns and Sir C. NAPIER,
Colonel SIB I'HORP expressed his surprise that the Hon.
Member for Montrose had not objected to the additional sum
of money which it was proposed to pay to the Hon. Member for
Bolton. He (Colonel Sibthorp) did not wish to derogate
from the merits of the Hon. Gentleman; but he had objected
to the former grants, and as the late Government had not
brought the grant forward last year, he hoped the present
Government would object to it, and leave the Members of the
late Government to pay it themselves. He should certainly
oppose the grant.
Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the vote for the passage money
of the legal advisers of embassadors.
After a short discussion,
Mr. HUME wished to know if ever there was such an allow-
ance made to any Chancellor of Ireland as to Lord Carnpell ?
Lord PALMERSTON said it was the usual allowance.
The vote was then agreed to.
The sum of 10,000/. was proposed for public education in
Great Britain.
Mr. E WART wished to know if this vote was to be distri-
buted between the National and British and Foreign Schools.
Sir G. CLERK answered in the affirmative.
Dr. BO WRING wished to know, as a good deal had been
said about instruction in singing, and .Mr. Hullah's system,
whether Mr. Mainzer's claims were to be taken into consideration.
Mr. HUME s:id his Hon. Friend had perhaps not heard
the announcement of the Secretary for the Home Department
that it was not the intention of Government to proceed at all in
the matter this session.
Mr. COWPER regretted that the Government had not
done more than make a promise on this subject; he had
hoped that a grant would have been made towards the encou-
ragement of singing.
Mr. HOWARD complained that whilst the Catholic Mem-
bers dai'y votedlargesuins of money to exclusively Protestant
purposes without opposing ther, H3O.
Members on the other
side were constantly complaining of the small sum annually
'voted to Maynooth. The Catholics formed by no means an
inconsiderable portion of the community, and their claims ought
not in his (Mr. Howard's) opinion, to be overlooked.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that this was a
grant to which
every-individual iwthe commmunity was called on to contri-
bute,as it was at present t. •
and from which, istributed, no Ca-
tholic could benefit. "lbeee were two Societies authorized to
superintend the distribution of this grant, the National
School Society and the British and Foreign School Society.
The first was a Society connected with
the Established
Church, and the second was connected with the Protestant
Dissenters. The Catholics were, therefore, necessarily ca-
eluded from deriving any benefit from this grant, rot by any
direct rule, but because they could not cou.,..eientious_y
I send
their children to the schools- under the superintendence of
these Societies. The want of a participation in this grant was
felt most severely by the Catholics in England—a large portion
of the lower orders were Catholics.
A great many poor Irish Ca-
tholics who came to England fur employment were absolutely de-
prived of the mean.; of educating their children. It was not fair, nor
just, nor reasonable, that the benefit of the grant shouldbe con-
fined to Protestants, it ought to be for the education of the chil-
dren of the people of England generally. He had pressed the Noble
Lord, late at the head of the Government, en this subject, and
h
he believed that Noble Lord ati been as ready to resist him as
gentlemen on the other side. Some years ago, in the State of
New York, the educational grant
hhad been given to a Volun-
tary Society, constituted onenscoemtehw at similar principles to this
Society ; and in consequence
the
last session
Catholics had been able to
participate in it ; but during. session a law had been
all Christians on a footing of
putting pas.ed,
followed. He equality. That
example ought to be
Id be devotedhoped that, for the future a
portion of the grant wou _ to the Catholic Schools.
They did not wish to escape froms9perintendence ; on the con.
teary, they invited the utmost vigilance, and were willing to
conform to any regulations that
might be laid down in mattersof literature, morals, and manners. All they asked was, that
Catholics should be educated in their own religion,
The grant was then agreed to,

The next vote proposed was that a sum not exceeding 59,93 E/.
sl.olld be granted to her Majesty to liquidate bills drawn by
tl.e Governor of South Australia since 1840.
Mr. HUME wished to know why the people of this country
should be called Upon to pay so large a sum of money. The
Governor of the Colony had exceeded his authority, and in-
stead of compelling the colony to pay the amount due, they had
already given them several large sums of money, and were now
proposing to grant them a still further sum. Certain speculators
had advanced sums of money to the colony at ten per cent. and
at six per cent., and interest had been paid them at those rates
for seven years. Now the revenue of the colony was deficient,
they applied to the Government. Why were they not left to
their security The Governor had been pursuing a career of
reckless extravagance, and now the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer came forward to take the risk from off the colony.
Why was not the land in the colony sold to repay the money "?
The people of England were not to be taxed because the Go-
vernor of the Colony was unfit for his situation. He should
certainly take the sense of the flGu-e on the subject.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that
persons had been induced to emigrate to the colony on the f ,ith
of an Act of Parliament. They were in a state of starvation,
and this money was necessary to relieve them. If they had
remained in England, they would have been entitled to relief,
and they had not forfeited that right by going to the colony or.
the faith of an Act of Parliament. Government had ordered
measures to be taken to remove those colonists who were not

likely to be able to maintain themselves to New South Wales,
or to rime other colony where they might gain a livelihood.
Mr. B. WOOD wished to know if this was a gift or a loan ?
Lord STANLEY—A grant.—(A laugh.)
Mr. B. WOOD called that a gilt, and he should certainly
vote againbt such a squandering of public money. The Com-
mittee of last sear had recommended a loan, that loan had since
been converted into a gift of nearly 400,0001., and now they
were to vote this further sum. Why did they not leave these
debts chargeable on the colony, if the colony should hereafter
be able to liquidate them ? He should like to know tke names
of the parties who had advanced this money at such a rate of
interest. The house ought not to sanction such a grant, and
he should divide against it.

Lord STANLEY had so frequently discussed the general
question, that he felt disinclined to enter into it. Orders had
been sent out to the Governor not to draw any more bills, and
it bad been supposed that those orders would reach him in
January, they had net, however, reached him until April, and
this grant was to meet bills which he bad drawn between the
months of January and April.
Mr. P. HOWARD deprecated the depreciation of the
colony in the public view, which would be the result of the
propagation of the opinions propounded by Hon. Gentlemen
on that (the Opposition) side of the House.
The Committee then divided, when the numbers were—
For the vote

Against it
• Majority for the vote .
During our absence from the gallery the next vote was put,
and we found
Sir G. CLERK explaining, in reply to a question from Mr.
Hume, that the extra sum required by this vote was entirely for
the war in China. The reinforcements demanded by the East India
Company amounted to six regiments, the expense of which
was charged partly upon the revenues of India, and partly upon
those of this country.
Sir C. NAPIER, before the vote was put, brought forward
a statement of the faulty system of naval promotion, strongly
urging the necessity of going into a thorough consideration of
the subject by the Government. The long period which the
mates and midshipmen were kept waiting, was most injurious
to the service of the country. The young men who entered the
navy were disheartened, and quitted the service in disgust. He
had always, in Parliament and out of it, urged this subject on
the consideration of the Admiralty, of whatever party it might
be, and he did so from a strong conviction of the necessity of it.
Ile had no personal interest in the matter, for nothing any Mi-
nistry could do for him could add to the position in which he
stood.
Sir G. COCKBURN explained, that though the suc-
cesses in Cnina had occurred at the close of the last year, yet
the accounts of them did not reach England till the com-
mencement of the present one. No' officers had been pro-
moted from this expedition except those who had distinguished
themselves. But there had been some promotions (this year
particularly) of officers who had been six and seven years on
the coast of Africa, some of whom had returned the only
officers left alive in their respective vessels ; all the rest having
died. All the officers of the Niger expedition who remained
had got a step in rank ; these officers they had considered, were
particularly entitled to their promotion.—( Hear.) With respect
to the promotion of mates, the Admiralty had resolved not to
promote any who had not passed their examination in 1835.
The young officers that had been promoted were men who had
shown themselves conspicuous in their actions in Syria or in
China. All he wished was, that those who complained of the
appointments that had been made could only hear the claims
that had been put forward, and the strong grounds on which
they had been supported.—( Heat, hear.)
Sir C. NAPIER was sure that no one would complain
of the conduct of the Admiralty, if they would clear off all
those officers who were unfit for service, and then lay down a

regular rul- for promotion in the navy.—(Hear, hear:)
Mr. HUME was afraid that that the Gallant Officer's zeal for
the navy had made him forgetful of the public purse. The
public at the present moment were paying 4,000 officers, and
not more than 800 were employed. By and bye he would show
the House how promotions had taken place, and that mere
boys had been advanced over the heads of deserving officers.
Such was the sys em at the present moment, that the navy
was nothing but a pension list for the aristocracy.—( Hear. )
Ihe promotions made by the present Government were mere
tl'an when they lad a thousand pennants flying. How many
Gallant Officers, he would ask, had had their hearts broken by
seeing young men—he might say boys—who could hardly
nalk, played ever their heads ?—( Hear.) He protested
against any promotion being made until a proper establish-
n ent was laid down.—( Hear, hear.) In his opinion, the pre-
nt system was alculated to maintain only idle people.
Alter a few words from Sir C. NAPIER and 11r. HOME,

Captain PLUMRIDGE said the course the present Govern-
ment hart pursued in promoting mates had given the greatest
satisfaction. He thought it was unfair to say that all promo-
tion went by patronage, because he stood in that House an in-
stance that such was not the case.—(Hear.)
Mr. D'ISRAELI wished to know whether the Government
could inform the Committee when it was probable that the war
in China would be brought to a termination?
Sir R. PEEL said it was impossible for him to say when the
war might be brought to a conclusion, as that would depend on
contingencies which he could not define nor foresee. All he
ceuld say was, that her Majesty's Government would not regard
a temporary expense in the hope of bringing the war to a satis-
factirs termination.
Mr. D'ISRAELI said he was persuaded that we had hitherto
carried on the war upon an erroneous principle. He stated it
upon the authority nf an informant thoroughly conversant with
the subject, that if we had carried on the war against the
Chinese people, and against their commerce, instead of carrying
it on against the Government, the war would have been long
ago terminated.
Sir R. PEEL said that if we carried on the war against
Chinese commerce, it was a question whether we would not be
carrying it on at the same time against British commerce.—
( Hear, hear.) lie doubted the justice or the policy of exer-
cising the utmost severities in our power against the people of
China.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL—Especially as the cause of the war is
not so very clearly a just cause.--( Hear, hear.)
The vote, which was a sum of 217,9511. for the expenses of
the war in China was then agreed to.
A sum of 500,0001. was voted to make up the deficiency in
the supplies of the previous year.
A sum of b 33,1771. was voted for defraying the expenses of
Ordnance works and repairs, barrack-masters' expenses, &c.
for the year 1842-43.
The resolutions were then agreed to, the House resumed,
and the Chairman reported progress.—Report to-morrow
(this day).