The Sun.
London, England, 1829-02-13 00:00:00

Friend on tie subject of associations, for the purpose of
complaining end obtaining redress of grievances. The
good effect of such public assemblies bad always; I cen
felt in this country, and 'were a very effectual check on
the conduct of Parliament itself. When be admitted the
pi'opriety of this Bill, under all the circumstances, he
was far from imputing to the Catholic Association the
dangerous tendency which some persons . imagined it to
have, for he felt satisfied that to that body might justly be
attributed the present peaceable condition of Ireland.
They had more effect in producing the tranquillity than
the immense army which we were supporting there.
Though he cordially approved of the measures intended by
Government with respect to the Roman Catholics, he re-
gretted that they were nut introduced with a better, grace :
he regretted that the Association should be specifically
named in the Bill, while the name of the Brunswick clubs,
which had caused much more violence, had been omitted.
He thought they ought to be put down by name as well a.
the others. He thought the Duke of Wellington and Mr.
Peel did themselves great honour by the manly course
they had adopted. He felt this tribute due to them, and
he would not offer it except in pure sincerity ; for he was
not much in the habit of concurring with any administea-

tion.—(Hear, hear.)—One word as to what had fallen
from a Right Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Leuth
(Ur. L. Foster) on a former evening. That Right Hon.
Gentleman had made a sweeping charge against his (Mr.
Hume's) countrymen, by stating that the majority of the
Scotch would be opposed to concession to the Catholics.
On what ground the Right Hon. Gentleman had thus ma-
ligned his countrymen, he was at a loss to know ; but in
justice to them he must say, that it was like 'most of his
other assertions, for aught be knew, unfounded.—
(A laugh.)—lf he had judged from a few isolated peti.
tions or the opinions of one or two individuals, he
knew nothing of the sentiments of the great majo-
rity of his countrymen; for, with perhaps the exception
of some self-elected rotten burgh, the great majority of
his countrymen were favourable to concession, and had
been so at least, he could say, for the last ten years. They
were too conscious of the liberty they theMselves enjoyed
in the free exercise of a religion different froM that of the
Church of England, and too grateful for that enjoyment,
to desire ,the continuance of religious disabilities with re-
spect to others. Such statements as that to which he re-
4erred were part of the attempts which had been recently
made to terrify Ministers, by endeavouring to impress them
with the belief that the measure they proposed was opposed
by the majority of the people of the United Kingdom. It
was like those stupid appeals which were seen put forth to
the public, such as "Englishmen, stand to your guns!"
and the like nonsense,,. of which we had lately heard so
much. Ministers, however, would not be affected by
such silly stuff: they had come forward manfully, and
avowed their sentiments and pointed out the necessity of a
change of system. He was glad they had so readily an-
swered the call made on them, and he anxiously wished
the approach of the opportunity which would show to the
country the small minority in which the advocates of ex-
clusion and intolerance would be left on this important
question. As a proof of the sense of the country, he might
allude to one circumstance which had occurred in the last
24 hours. Ile alluded to the change of opinion on this
subject in the University.of Cambridge. The example of
Ministers had no doubt shown them the way on this occa-
sion, though he would admit that Cambridge had always
. . .

shown itself liberal, as compared with the ether Univer-
sity : still, be could not but think that conviction would
not have so readily flashed upon them on this subject, had
they not had the excellent example of Ministers before
them. However, he was glad to see the change, and it
was a strong argument to show the measure of concession
was not hated in the country, as some Members would fain
have it imagined. In conclusion, the Hon. Member again
expressed the satisfaction he felt at an approaching measure
which would have the effect of cordially uniting Ireland to

this country, and of having her governed without the ne-
cessity of a military force equal to one-third of our whole
standing army.
Mr. L. FOSTER rose to correct the mis-statement of

the Hon. Member who had just sat down, and who had iu
a manner, informal and inconvenient, referied to what had
passed on a former evening. The Hon. Member had ut-
terly misrepresented what had fallen from him on the occa-
sion referred to. He did not say, but on the contrary he
stated the very reverse, that the people of Scotland were
opposed to concession ; but he stated that they made a great
distinction—a distinction which the Hon. Member did not
conceive or could not understand—between the concession
of civil power to Roman Catholics and the establishment of
the Catholic Religion. Me had, stated that all Protestant dis-
senters, with perhaps the exception of one sect, would in-
sist and rely on this distinction, perhaps even more than
the Church of England. If the Hon.. Member had at-
tended to what be did say, he would have seen that the as-
sertion he had imputed to bins would not have been con-
sistent:with the argument be used; for he had admitted
that the altered circumstances of the country *would render
the concession of civil rights- to the Catholics expedient;
but that it should be so guarded as to prevent their reli-
gious ascendancy, and that if the proposed measure should
go beyond that view of it he could not support it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that
if the Hon. Member for Montrose had exercised his usual
disposition to research, he could not have been surprised at
the decision of the University of- Cambridge, for he would
have found that this was not the first time it had relused to
petition against concession to the Catholics; for that when
a Bill for the relief of that body was last before the House,
it had come to a similar decision, and when a cry had been
raised on the subject of concession, and it was urged in that
House as a proof of the general feeling, that the Universities
had petitioned, an Hon. Member got up in his place, and
indignantly repelled the statement on the part of the Uni-
versity of Cambridge.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that though he could not sup-
port this Bill, he felt it to be his duty, under existing cir-
cumstances, to withdraw his opposition to it. He could
'not vote for it on any other ground than that it was to be
followed up by a measure of emancipation for the Catho-
lics. If it were not for that consideration, he would not
have allowed it to go through a single stage without meet-
ing it with the most strenuous opposition. He objected
to the Bill, because it was to put down the Catholic Asso-
ciation. He objected to the Bill, because it made the sup-
pression of that Association perpetual, He objected to the
Bill, because it armed the Lord Lieutenant with uncon-
stitutional power, and because it armed the Magistracy
also with power which he dreaded much more than
that which it vested in the hands of so responsible a
Magistrate as the Lord Lieutenant. He had hoped that the
Bill would have been free from this latter objection, because,
as he had stated upon a former occasion, he thought it
much better to vest power of such a description in the
hands of a high officer, who exercised it upon his responsi-
bility to Parliament, than to vest it in the hands of those
who exercised it almost without any responsibility all.—
He quite agreed with the doctrine that in Ireland it was a
matter much to be deplored, whenever it became necessary
to vest in the acting Magistrates powers which were 'to be
merely powers of discretion ; and for this reason,—that
that country was torn in pieces by domestic factions. He
looked forward with confidence to the healing operation of
the great measure which was to follow this Bill, and which
he considered as the price, and the costly price too, which
was to be paid for it. But for a time, yes, for a year or a

year anil a half during which it was to be in operation, he
was afraid that the House must make up its mind to behold
the consequences of the past misgovernment of Ireland still
visible in the continuance of the fictions divisions which

had so long distracted the people and the magistracy. He
thought that a country, where use half of the community
had been so long taught that the law was not their pro-
tector but their natural enemy, and where the other half
had been so long accustomed to consider it as their exclu-
sive private property, was not the country in which we
ought to invest the local magistracy with any extraor-
dinary powers. He therefore agreed with the Right
Honourable Gentlemen opposite, that the fit course was
to vest' such powers, not in the ordinary local magistracy,
but in the Lord Lieutenant for the time being, who was
at the head of that magistracy, with full liberty to
exercise them on his own responsibility, either in putting
down the Catholic Association, or in refraining from put-
ting down other associations. As far, then, as related to
the transmission of the warrant of the Lord Lieutenant to

any two justices of the peace to suppress any association
which he might deem dangerous to the public peace and
safety, so far was the principle followed up of vesting ex-
traordinary powers in hands in which they might be placed
with perfect safety. But unfortunately the Bill—and he
said this not so much in the spirit of opposition to it as in
the hope that his suggestion might lead the House to avoid
any departure from its principle—unfortunately the Bill
went much further : two justices of the peace were selected

by the Lord Lieutenant, and were entrusted with the exe-
cution of his warrant. They were bound to enforce it to
the utmost of their power,, and to prohibit all associations
and assemblies which it denounced 'as illegal. So far all
was well ; but then the Bill provided that after the rd
Lieutenant had armed with power two magistrates whom
he bad selected,—and he did not blame the framers of the
Bill for giving the Lord Lieutenant authority to make such
selection, for the Lord Lieutenant could not be every-
Where,• and his responsibility to Parliament would force
him to select trustworthy persons,—it should be lawful for
the same two magistrates, or for any two justices of the
peace who might happen to be present, to proceed to ap-
prehend and bring before them all persons who should