The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-12 00:00:00

which he had taken great interest, bit what he had stated
was entirely without communication with the Rev. Prelate.
Mr. O'CONNELL said the Hon. Gentleman who had
just sat down, had proposed an. addition to the revenue
of the Protestant Bishops in the Colonies ; if it were to
be taken out of ecclesiastical funds he should make no remark
upon it, but the Hon. Gentleman had totally forgotten that it
was to be taken out of the Consolidated Fund, and wou'd,
therefore, be borne by all classes of her Majesty's subjects
alike. With the internal regulations he should not into: fere ;
he only rose to notice the ob<ervations of the Hon. Gentle-
man. He seemed to think it a matter of course that, no mat-
ter for what part of the empire, the money ought to come out
of that consolidated fund. They might adopt either one of
two princip'es, the voluntary principle, or if they took it out of
the Consolidated Fund they ought to give assistance, indif-
ferently, to all sects. The Hon. Gentleman seemed to think,
too, that 7001. a..year was too little for a Bishop.
The Roman Catholic Bishop of Nova Scotia had
but 75/. a-year. This was part of the Consolidated Fund
an f the Roman Catholics had much cause to complain of the
unfairness with which they were treated in this respect. They
had no right to give to one class of religionists out of the Con-
solidated Fund, unless they gave it to all. lie therefore ob-
jected to the proposal.
Sir R. INGLIS said, he felt pleasure in hearing from the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman that he should not interfere with
the number of Protestant bishops affected by the present Bill.
He could not concur in the proposition of the Hon. and Gallant
Member for Alarylebone that the three Bishops should be re.
dueed to two. Her Majesty's Government had done well in in-
creasing the number of colonial bishoprics, and consequently
with their own principles they might have refrained from
reducing them to the lowest amount of income. He might
be told that it was to be paid out of the consolidated fund,
but he thought they might have applied to Parliament on the
subject with prfect confidence, as a larger income ought to
have been given to those whom they placed in the highest
functions of the church. He hoped the Government. would
take into consideration the state in which a diocese might be
. . _ . _ .

if at any time it should be deprived of its bishop. Ther—e were
one or two observations more which he shou!d reserv^ till the
Bill went into Committee.

Sir C. NAPIEft said if he had understood the Noble. Lord
rightly the other night, he had said it was his intention to have
three bishops—one in Demarara, one in Berbice, and the other
in Antigua, one of which was to have 3,500/ a-year, another
2,500/. and one 1,0001. a-year. He wished to know which was
the poor Bishop ?—( Laughter. )
Lord STANLEY said when the Bill was in Committee,

they might discuss the details of the Bill, but there was great
ioconvenienco in doing so when they were considering general
principles. This was a case standing quite by itself, and was
an amendment proposed on an existing Act; he should, there-
fore, be obliged to Gentlemen on both sides of the House, if
they would confine themselves to the Pill under d scussion.

After a few observations from from Mr. V. SMITH,

Lord STANLEY said the Bill proposed to make two Arch-
deacons, but the revenue wouli practically be divided among
three.

The SPEAKER then left the chair, and the House went
nto Committee on the Bill.

Sir C. NAPIER said he would lay before the Committee
he reasons which induced him to object to the creation of
. .

three Bishops. He thought it might be right that there should be
one at Deme ara, and one at Berbice, but there was not the least
necessity for a Bishop •,t Antigua, when there were steamboats
to carry the bishops about among the Islands with more faci-
lity than railroads in England. The troops were billeted
out once a year, and the General and the Bishop generally
embarked together and made it a perfect party of pleasure.
—( Laughter. ) He did not know where the cheap Bishop
was to be placed, but all parts of the West Indies wee so
dear that he was sure he could not live anywhere as a Bishop
ought to live, for 1,5001., nor could the Arch-
deacon live in a p-oper manner for the same reason.
He was convinced that a year or so from the present time the
Noble Lord would be coming down to say, that on account of
the expense of living in the West Indies, he must move an
addition to the Bishops' salaries. He therefore moved that,
instead of three Bishops being appointed by the Bill, the number
be reduced to two.

Lord J. MANNERS opposed the motion. He thoughs it
was beneath the dignity of a country like this, to haggle and
fiddle upon some few hundred pounds to maintain the highest
officers in the Established Church. The Hon. and Gallant
Officer was himself an instance of the might and prescience of
this empire. He was surprised, therefore, at his hostility to the
appointment.
Lord STANLEY hoped the Hon. and Gallant Officer did
not intend to persevere in his motion. For himself, he felt
that he was very incompetent to discuss what were the proper
limits of a Bishop's jurisdiction. He would leave the Hon. and
Gallant Officer to say, whether he was better acquainted with
them. It might be all very well to joke up, n the visits which
were paid to different parts of the diocese • but no man could
doubt that the duties of the Bishops in the West Indies had
,greatly increased within the last few years. One great bless-
ing of the Emancipation Act was, that it created a growing
desire for religious instruction. When her Majesty's Govern-
ment came into office, they found the bishopric of Barbadoes
practically vacant. The Bishop, who enjoyed a salary of 4,000/.
a year, had tendered his resignation ; and it was not accepted,
only because there were some difficulties as to form. Upon
consulting the heads of the Church, it was thought desirable to
distribute the funds among the Bishops. They had not thought
of establishing new Bishops, but that they had determined to
give to the existing Archdeacons that authority over their sub•
ordinate clergy, which would result from their holding a
higher rank in the church. He had advised her Majesty to
create three Bishoprics, and to confer the office upon the three
Archdeacons. He had no intention to propose to increase the
emoluments, believing that they were sufficient; but he had
been informed that the division of the duties into sees would be
more desirable than dividing them into two ; and it was upon
that ground that he had proposed the present Bill. He hosed
the House.of Commons would pay to the opinion of the Church
the same deference on that subject.
Mr. VERNON SMITH agreed with the Noble Lord, that
it was more desirable to have three Bishoprics than two. He
trusted, however, that the Noble Lord might be considered as
pledged not to propose any increase of salary. It was
not stated what proportion the Bishops were to receive. No
reason had been stated why the salaries should be unequal.
The Hon. Member for Droitwich (Mr. Pakington) consi-
dered that the effect of the Noble Lord's Bill would create a
state establishment in the colonies. The Noble Lord pro-
} wed merely to divide the amount charged on the Consolidated
Fund among a greater number of Bishops than had hitherto
existed in the West Indies. Nothing could be more pt.( ju.
dicial to the real interests of the church in those Colonies than
the establishment of a dominant religion—a State religion in
them ; and he was aware the Noble Lord's object in the pre-
sent Bill was not to create any such establishment. Under
the old Bill a sum of 2,0001.. was granted for pensions to
Bishops; the present Bill proposed to do away with that
grant; but he (Mr. Vernon Smith) trusted the Noble
Lord would see the necessity of devising some scheme
lir granting pensions to more Bishops, otherwise they would
be tempted to continue in their sees when they had ceased to
be able to perform their episcopal duties. He (Mr. V. Smith)
would wish to know what the who'e charge of the Bishops in
the West Indies amounted to ?
Mr. WILLIAMS thought it was quite enough for us to
maintain our own clergy without having to maintain the clergy
of our West Indian colonies. The people of this country were
subject to sufficient taxes and expenses for those islands, with-
out making the maintenance of the clergy an item. We paid a
double price fa sugar, in order to maintain the monopoly of
those islands. if they retrenched such expenses as this Bill
proposed to subject the country to, they could save the whole
of those additional taxes which. were now required to supp'y
the deficit in the revenue. On that ground he would support
the amendment.

Mr. V. SMITH would pledge himself not to ask for any
additional salaries fur those Bishops, if the Noble Lord would
also pledge himself to that effect.
Mr. P. BORTHWICK would give his support to the Bill
of the Noble Lord, as nothing, in his opinion, tended more to
promote the interests of the Church, than a well regulated
establishment.
Sir C. NAPIER begged to assure the Noble Lord, and the
Hon. Gentleman opposite, that he had as good a sense of reli-
gion as they.—/ Hear, and laughter.) lie meant co joke
whatever, when he spoke of the Bishops going on a tour of
pleasure when they visited the various districts of their
diocese. Now that steam communication was esta-
blished, the Bishop of Bermuda could go the rounds of his
diocese in fourteen days, or three Weeks, and he would there-
fore have an opportunity of making whatever visits of pleasure
or otherw se that he chose: He (Sir C. Napier) had a
higher re-pect for the dignity of the Church than seemed to be
entertained on the benches opposite, for he never would have
attempted to give but 1,5001.. a-year to a Bishop as his salary,
as he did not think that a clergyman of that high rank
could live and support his dignity on such a salary.
He thought that if 2,5001. was given to the Bishops of Berbice
and Demerara, and also to the Bishop of Barbadoes, the duties
would be much better done than if they only received 1,500/.
Lord STANLEY said, that although the amount taken in
the Bill for the Bishop of Berbice was only 1,500/., he would,
in addition, receive out of the, Colonial Fund the 500/. which
he now received as Archdeacon.
The Ilouse was then ordereTto be cleared for a division, when
Mr. O'CONNELL said he would not vote on the question,
and the Hon. Gentleman walked out of the House.
The Committe then divided, when there appeared—
For the Amendment .... l7
Against it
Majority
The remaining clauses were then agreed' * to. * 109
Report
was brought up and adopted without any amendments, and
the Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Monday.
EXCHEQUER BILLS LOAN ACTS ADVANCES

FOR PUBLIC WORKS.
The House having resolved itself into a Committee of the
whole House upon the Exchequer Bills Loan Acts,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose, pur-
suant to notice, to move for advances for public
works. The Right Honourable Gentleman said that the
subject upon which he had to address the House was one
of very considerable importance, but one about which
he thought there would be very little difference. For many
years past, Commissioners had been appointed, to whom Ex-
chequer bills had been given, with a view to their making
advances for public works by loans to parties who
were able to give security for the advances made to
them. His object in proposing the present Bill was
to continue that system for a limited period ;
but he proposed to relieve the public from the inconvenience
sustained from time to time by the accumulation of Exchequer
bills now in force. The course when the Commissiosis were
instituted was to make advances by Exchequer bil s which had
been originally sold in the market. At the end of twelve
months those bills were exchanged for Supply bills, and they
formed thereby part of the regular Exchequer bills of the
country. During this process the returns of the
sums advanced were carried to the Consolidated Fund
and the Exchequer, as part of the annual income. The result
was, that we went on spending the income which ought to have
been applied for the reduction of the debt. But in the year
1837 the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Paring), or
his predecessor, proposed that the system should be so far put
an end to, that instead of these Exchequer bills for public works
being converted at the end of the yen. by exchanging into
Supply:bil!s,they should be discharged for money. The result
of the operation, which was a beneficial one to the public in one
sense was that the Exchequer bills, not being exchanged at
the end of the year b came extremely depreciated in the
market. In order not to lose by selling them at a
discount, they were taken by the Commissioners of
the National Debt, on account of the Savings'
Banks, for which they were good security, and were
held by them. At the present moment these bills we-e held
by the Commissioners of the National Debt, and were liable
to be paid off in money instead of being paid in other bills. In
the present circumstances of the country they payment, out of
the funds, which did .not exceed one million in the April
quarter, would be a measure extremely inconvenient to the public
finance, without producing any corresponding benefit. He
therefore proposed that the Commsssioners of the National
Debt should avail themselves of the power they possessed by
law, and should deliver up the Exchequer bills they held on
account of public works, for the purpose of being cancelled,
reserving stock in exchange for them, under the provisions of
the law. Having therefore disposed of those accumulations of
bills, which in the present instance was mainly to be attributed
to the large sums which Parliament voted for the construction
of workhouses in Ireland, it remained for the House to consich r
the course:which it would in future pursue with respect to funds
of this nature, Two courses were opened to them, either to say
that they should no longer continue advances of this descrip•
tiun, or else to make arrangements of such a nature that they
viould not for the future be involved in the difficulties in which