The Sun.
London, England, 1827-10-05 00:00:00

In the Colonies, and assessing produce with reference to such
value. I
Witnesses' Answers.—J. Sewell, Esq. thinks the emi-
grant will be able to pay ; the Yen. Archdeacon Strachan,
D.D. has no doubt of the ability to pay interest, and re-
commends instalments of 5/. to be received for' the pay-
ment of,the principal; W. B. Felton, Esq., P. Robinson,
Esq., Captain Marshall, J. Howe, Esq., and A. C. Bu-
chanan, Esq., tViik there will be no difficulty ; B. P.
Wagner, Esq., recpinmends 51. instalments to be received
in payment of principal, and thinks there will be no diffi-
culty ; Mr. Roswell Mount thinks there will be no diffi-
culty; Captain Weatherley is confident there will be no
difficulty.
•

Query s.—Are you of opinion that if thin propo-
sition be adequately explained to the pauper emi-
grant, and if he be made conclusively to understand
that it is not a rent for his land, but a payment of
interest upon a loan of money lent to him at his own
request, which loan has been advanced to him in
kind, and not lulu-Loney, that he would be in any
degree disposed to resist the payment of this inte-
rest, it being explained to him that at any time he
bas the power of exonerating himself from such pay-
ment, by the payment of NI.?
I.Note.—This question might not appear more necessary
to be put to a colonial witness, than to any other witness,
but it has reference to the disinclination naturally felt to the
payment of rent in countries under the circumstances of our
"North American Colonies, which contain an indefinite ex-
tent of unoccupied land of a fertile quality.)
Witnesses' Answers—J. Sewell, Esq.
.the Venerable
Archdeacon Strachan, D.D., W. B. Felton, Esq., P. Ro-
binson, Esq., Captain Marshall, J. Howe, Esq., A. C.
Buchanan, Esq., • B. P. Wagner, Esq., Mr. Roswell
Mount, and Captain Weatherley, think there will be no
disposition in the emigrants to resist the payment.
Query 6.—ln case of the death of the emigrant
at any period during the seven years, or after it, do
you think there would be any doubt as to the security
of the improved land being an adequate value for. the
loan advanced upon ?
plote.—Fer example, supposing the head of a family to
die, and the wife and children to abandon the lot, would
an incoming tenant be able and willing to bay the interest
at the end e the seven years, he of course availing himself
of the improvements that had taken place upon the parti-
cular '3t.l
Witnesses' Answers—J. Sewell, Esq., has no doubt,
when the value of the improvements amount to the sum
lent: the Venerable Archdeacon Strachan, D.D., W. B.
Felton, Esq., P. Robinson, Esq., Captain Marshall, and J.
Howe, Esq., think the improvements will be sufficient se-
curity ; A. C. Buchanan, Esq., doubts the value of the
security until the end ()flour years, when it will be good
and sufficient ; B. P. Wagner, Esq., Mr. Roswell Mount,
and Captain Weatherley, think the land sufficient security..
Query 7.—Are you of opinion that any sort of
prai.eical difficulty will be found in the levy of this
interest, supposing such levy to be made underethe
directioes, of the Governor ?
Witnesse/.,Answers.—J. Sewell, Esq., when aided by
legislative previeions, there will be no difficultyF ; the Vene-
rable Archdeacon Strachan, D.D., W. B. elton, Esq.,
P. Robinson, Esq., Captain Marshall, Howe, Esq.,
A. C. Buchanan, Esq., and B. P. Waetier, Esq., think
there will be no difficulty ; Mr. Roswell is not in-
formed on this subject ; Captain Weatherley thinks there
will be no difficulty.
Query B.—What would be the average expence
per cent. upon the collection of the interest ?
Witnesses' Answers,---
Sewell Esq. thinks not less
than 6 par cent. ; the Venerable Archdeacon Strachan,
D.D., perhaps 5 per cent. if collected by the local autho-
rities ; W. B. Felton, Esq., 15 per cent., but about 5 per
local authorities ; P. Robinson, Esq.,
cent, if collected by
per cent. ; Captain Marshall, 5 per cent., if collected in
meney ; J.
J Howe, Esq., 5 per cent. ; A. C. Buchanan,
Esq., from 5 to el per cent., if in money, awl from 10 to
15 per cent. if in produce ; B. P. Wagner, Esq., 2i per
cent. in money, and from 5 to 10 per cent. in produce;
'Mr. Roswell Mount, not informed ; Captain Weatherley,
22 per cent. in money, 10 per cent. if paid in kind.
Query 9.—Are you of opinion that there would
be any sort of indisposition cm the part of the Colo-
nial Legislatures to give every facility to the levy of
this interest, in consideration of the extreme advan-
tages to the Colony which must arise from the in-
troduction of a regulated system of emigration, con-
sisting of properly selected emigrants at a proper pe-
riod of who have left their own country under
the circumstance of there being no demand for their
laboer ?
(Note.—The Colonies would benefit exclusively from all
the productions which might be the I ssult of emigration,
with the exception of the interests and repa-yments, which
must necessarily be a very small part of the equal wealth
created, as is shown by the concurrent teetiinopy of all the
Colonial witnesses.)
Witnesses' Answere.—J. Sewell, Esq., the Yen. Arch-
deacon Strachan, D.D., W. B. Fenton, Esq., P. Robinson,
Esq., Captain Marshall, J. Howe, Esq., A. C. Buchanan,
Esq., B. P. Wagner, Esq., Mr. Roswell Mount, and Capt.
Weatherley, think there will be no difficulty.
Query 10.—Do you conceive, in point of fact,
that this proposal of advancing capital to the emi-
grants, in other words to the Colony, differs from any
speculation which might be made, of advancing
capital in any colonial enterprize, whether on loan or
in mines, for which the capitalist would naturally re-
quire a remunerating interest ?
[Note.—If an individual, or a Company in England, ad-
vanced 100,0001. on a Mine, or on a Canal, they would
exPeet to receive interest upon their.capitalcould t
Colonists complain el' a remittance to England of that in-
terest
Witnesses' Answers.--J. Sewell, Esq., the Ven. Arch-
deacote Straehan, D.D., W. B. Felton, Este, P. Robinson,
Esq., Ceotain Marshall, .1. Howe; Esq., A. C. Buchanan,
Esq., Wagner, Esq., Mr. Roswell Mount, and Capt.
Weatherley, think there is no difference.
Query 11. L-Whether in the instance of indivi-
duals advancing their capital, a higher rate of inte-
rest would not be expected ; and whether such inte-
rest would not be expected to commence at a much
earlier period than after the lapse of seven years ?
[Note.--The proposition herein made is, to advance 60/.
free of interest for seven years, and then to charge interest
at the rate of 61. 13s. 4d. per cent., that is 6 2-3,19. per
cent. upon the original 601. ; but as it. is intended that the
Mother Country should sustaiu no ultimate loss upon these
loans, the emigrant is called upon to repay a capital sum of
SO/. instead of 601., and is called upon to pay 41. per an •
num, at the.end of seven years, upon that, capital of SOL,
being at the rate of Si. per cent. upon it.
The case, then, as between the lender and the emigrant,
eupposing it to be an individual case, atarels simply thus
I lend you 601. free of interest, for seven yi
ears, but as
the colonial rate of interest is six per cent.,ehould be
justified in calling upon you to pay V. 12s. for thiseaeo at
the expiration of the first year, but as with you to emplo
your means exclusively in improving your laud, I will re-
snit you all interest fir seven years, and then I will charge
you with an interest of 4/. per annum instead of the slim
of 8/. 12s. ; and at any time, if you choose to relieve
yourself from this annual payment of 4/. or parts of it,
you may diminish it to the extent of 11. by every 201. that
you pay by iustalineuts in liquidation of the capital debt of 1
SOL , that is. of 601. improved to the value of SO/. in
consequenee- ef seven years' deferred interest.]
Witnesses' Answers.--e. Sewell, Esq. thinks
indivi-
dtiala mould require an immediate return, but they S4nnot
the legal interest ; the Yen.
take more' than 6 per cent.
Archdeacon ,Strachan, D.D., thinks individuals would take
-pet • W. B. Felton, Esq., P. Robinson,
compound lutes. s J. /tom?, Esq., 4.. e. Bucha.
Esq., Captain -_vier,lhes.""al Esq., Mr. Roswell Mount,
nun, Esq., B. P. Ate„:. •
and-Captain Weatherley, think individuale would require
larger profit.
It will be seen upon referenCe to all the a
the
above
answers, that one opinion prevails among all
witnesses respecting the ability of the settler to pay,
the sum advanced
if not in money at least in produce,
upon the system above laid down. Your Committee
arediowever, aware that difficulties have practiCally
been experienced, both in Canada and the United
States, in obtaining the payment of the proceeds of,
land ; and Although they would draw, as they are
warranted to do, from the concurrence of all the
ne"es, a wide (Citinctioxi between the payment of,
rent for land, And the liquidation of a debt actually
incurred and charged with jegal interest, your Com-
mittee are so anxious to avoid the imputation of act-
ing hastily upon visionary and theoretical schemes,
that they hesitate to express to the IJettee that full
ronviction of eventual repayment which nevertjieless
alto body of the evidence would seem to warrant. At
the s.:Arne time they would not feel themselves justified;
in recce:mending to the House a national outlay of
this nature without a prospect of direct return.; and
while they (al that there is that degree of probability
which allows thai,n to recommend an experiment for

three years, the experience of the last of those years
will afford a strong presumption bow far it may be
safe or advisable to cont nue and'extend the system,
or rest satisfied with the advantage, be it what it
may, of the removal of the number proposed to be
taken within three years, without incurring any
further national outlay. Your Committee are satis-
fied that the repayment in kind will at once afford
a stimulus to the industry of the settler, and facili-
tate his power of repayment.
The advantage of the principle of annuity pay-
ment, as proposed in the last section, over the more
apparently simple principle of an absence of all pay-
ment for seven years, and the commencement at
that peribd of an annual payment of 4/. per annum,
redeemable at any time upon the payment of a capital
of 80/. appears to your Committee to consist in the
following points :—lst. That it will call from the
settler a payment at the period of the termination of
the third year of his location. 2dly, That if such
payment should be actually made in the third and
fourth years, the strongest possible security will be
afforded of the continuation of this annual payment,
progressively increasing to the sum of 5/., and the
consequent realization of the plan of entire repay-
ment; for this ratio of progressive increase will be
in proportion to, but below the increased capacity of
the settler to pay, arid he will not find any sudden
inconvmience in the mere circumstance of payment.
idly, As the series of years of the annuity diminishes,
the settler will be called upon for a diminishing',
amount of redemption-fund. 4thly, No perpetual
debt will be contracted between the colonies and the
mother country, for the 4/. referred to would have
left a debt of 80/., as involved in the queries and
answers 'to the colonial witnesses, notwithstanding
any number of payments of the annual 4/. ; whereas
if the repayment, be made on the principle suggested,
the last, year's payment of the annuity will cancel the
whole debt ; in other words, if the payment should
be realized, and the money paid into a fund to accu-
mulate, that fund, at the end of 30 years, supposing
the price of stocks to remain the same, would pur-
chase out the remaining part of the long annuity ; there-
fore the:whole transaction would virtually terminate at
that period ; but if the more probable result happens,
and the emigrant should redeem his annuity, this
transaction will be accomplished at a probably earlier

period.
It will be perceived, from an examination of the
evidence in details that no doubt is expressed by the
witnesses, of the capacity of the emigrant to repay,
according to the scale recommended, commencing at
the rate of 10a. per annum in the third year, and
progressively increasing to the extent of 5/. per ann.
Your Committee beg most distinctly to be under-
stood that they rest their case entirely upon the
presumed co-operation, and assistance ofthe Colonial
Legislatures. Unless this can be obtained they feel
that repayment would be impracticable; if it be obtain-
ed theyentertain confident hopes t hat it may bereduced
to a regular and effective system; and although they
could not go so far as to require a guarantee upon the
part of the Colonial Legislature, they should expect
them to make such provisions as should tend to en-
force and secure the validity of the engagements
made. Nor, upon a very mature examination of the
subject, can your Committee be induced to conceive
that the local legislatures can have any disinclination
to enter into such arrangements. The intelligent
inhabitants of those colonies cannot fail to be aware
that when those emigrants repay the loan, which is
proposed to be lent to each head of a family, they
will only repay a very small part of the wealth which
they possess, and which has been .created by their
emigration. They will be aware also that the pro-
jected emigration will consist exclusively of able.
bodied healthy persons, selected upon system in:the
mother country, and introduced upon system into the
colony, and that it is not to be a casual, desultory,
and Amprovided emigration. Under such circum-
stances, your Committee cannot doubt the disposition
of the local legislatures of the colonies to encourage
the measure, and to facilitate the process of repay-
ment, an opinion which is expressed unanimously by
the colonial witnesses examined before your Com-
mittee.
In fact your Committee are at a loss to conceive
what .could_ be more advantageous to the interests of
tile colonies than an accession of population under
such terms. Their wealth and power will be in-
creased infinitely more by such an accession, coupled
with a principle of repayment practically carried into
effect, than it would be supposing that no emigra-
tion Of that character, that is of selected emigrants,
were to take place in consequence of such repayment
being deemed impracticable. The colonies will have
the advantage of being able to supply, by colonial
laws, any measures of police, or of any other nature
which may assist in the satisfactory location of emi-
grants thus proposed to be introduced. In case of
the sum of 1,140,0001., it can only be considered in
the light of a loan made to the emigrants, to be ap-
plied in the most advantageous manner for the bene-
fit of the colony. If English capitalists were pre-
pared to employ a sum of equal amount in some
speculations in the colonies, which they anticipated
would be productive, in the formation of a canal,
the working of a mine, or the establishment of a
fishery, or In any other mode, and if those English_
capitalists expected to derive ten per cent. for this
speculation, which annual profit was to be remitted
to England, is it possible to suppose that the colo-
nies would object to such a remittaupr—that they
would consider themselves aggrieved by it,-.-that
they would not feel themselves benefited by that
portion of the real returns of .this enterprise, which
would be created and returned within the colony
over and above the interest remitted to the parties
in England?
Your Committee think that it is only necessary
to have these views fully and clearly understood,
and the evidence examined which has been taken,
in order to induce the colonies to accept with grati-
tude an arrangement of this nature. Nor do your
Committee found their opinions upon mere specu-
' lative data. They would specially refer to the let-
ter addressed to Earl Bathurst, by the Magistrates
and others resident in the district of Newcastle, in
the province of Upper Canada, which is to be found
in the evidence betlyeen the questions 3,701 and
3,702, in which they explain their views of the ad-
vantages to be derived. from tst regulated system of
colonization. In the same place will also be found
the expiessions of gratitude on the part of the Irish
emigrants of 1825, for the change effected in their

situation.
Third.—The success of former emigrations, 'as
bearing dpon the probability of repayment.
In the Appendix to the Report of the Committee
of 1826, will be found, among other papers relating
to the emigration of 1823, a return made by Mr.
Peter Robinson (tinder whose superintendance that
emigration was conducted) relative to the settlers-
located by him, showing the extent of acres cleared,
the quantity of produce raised by each head of a
family, and the number of cattle and hogs in the pos-
session of each in the month of March, 1826. From
an analysis which has been made 'of that rettirn, it
alears that the property iv. the possession of the
0 heads of families included in the return in March
1826, amounted in value to 7,6621. Gs. Gd. sterling,
and that at the expiration of seven years from the
time of their location, their capital might be ex-
pected to amount to , more than 3.0,0001. sterling.—
it is necessary to observe, that in this first experi-
ment many of the emigrants were single men. Se-
veral of these engaged themselves as labourers,
either in the gaii.adas or in the United States, and
those who proceeded to the settlement and conti-
nued in their location,
,appear from the return to
have .made much less progress in the ,clearing and
cultivation .Of l,lreir land than those settlers who had
families. The Holm ?!VIII observe, however, that
ever under these eireunismace,s the estimated value
'of the property in possession of these 120 heads of
families, at the end of the second year of their loe,a-
tion, amounted to more than one-half of the expence
incurred in the transport and location of 568 indivi-
duals, pit Ap rate of 221. is. Gd. each.
The emigration of 1825 consisted of 2,024 per-
sons, among whom were 415 heads of families, able-
badied, and capable of lahottr. They, as well as the