The Sun.
London, England, 1818-02-07 00:00:00

GAOL FEES IN IRELAND.

Mr. PERI. gave notice, that on Wednesday
next he should wove for leave to bring in a 13i!I
to almlish the Fees taken on the discharge of pri-
soners in Irelaml.—(Chretiog).

. _
Lord ARCtiIIIALD fli.UlVroN wished to know
from a Noble Lord (Castlereagh) what prop ess
had been. made by the Cou►niiltsiorters appointed
to inquire into the Fees, &c. taken in the Scotch
Courts

Lord CasThErteAGn answered, that one Report
was already inepared by the Commissioners,. and
another would shortly be presented by the►u.

SECRET COMMITTEE.

Lord CASTLEREAnif moved .die Order of the
Day for tire Balloting for the Secret Comm4tee,
to which the papers on the internal state of the
country here to be referred.
Mr. TIERNEY said, in Balloting for the Secret
Committee they would have but %cry little troubte,
us the lists were all prepared by Ministers them-
selves. lie hoped, however, that no Gentleman
tvould be named who was not in the, habit of at-
tending the House, and on whose attendance
in the Committee they. might therefore cal-
culate.

The Order having been gone into, the Clerk
proceeded in► the usual way to call over the names
of Members alphabetically. The first Ministerial
Members who came forward with their lists vvere
cheered by the Opposition Members: The Op.
position Membtrs did not. present any lists.
The names of the Members having been twice
called over, Scrutineers were appointed by the
House to Report the result of the Ballot.
Mr. CANNING presented a Petition from several
persons in Liverpool, praying for leave to bring
in a Bill for the erection of a Corporate Com-
pany for Lipl►ting the Town of Liverpool by means
of Gas.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
that the House at its rising that day, adjourn to
Monday next.

Mr. CU RWEN moved for-
-Ist, An Account of all Exchequer Bills issued between the
sth January, 1817, and the 6th January, 1618, specifying the
Acts of that under which they were issued.
2d, An Account of all Exchequer Bills paid off within the
same period.
Sd. Au Account of all Exchequer Bills which remain to be,
issued, specifying the Acts of Parliament authorizing the is;
sues, and the sums issuable under each.
COMNIITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS.
BANK RESTRICTION ACT. •

The CliANciu.Loa of the ExCHF:Qui:a wished
merely to call the attention of the Hone to a
motion he was about to make, which he did not
apprehend would lead to any discussion. He had
0:liy to propose the usual annual grant moved
frout yeAr to yeAr, • on account principally of the
mast anding Excl.equer Bills. The _Right Hon.
Gentleman proceeded to recapitulate the different
4mounts of the Bills, in an and
stated the application of the slims already voted
for their discharge. He then added, as far as could
be collected, that he should now more a Reso-
lution for a sum not exceeding 30 millions, Prin-
cipally to py off ..Exchegoer 808, which, with
3 Millions un account of the Land and Malt Duties,
would enable the House to go oti wit hoot any tar-

(her supply till idler Lester.
Mr. Ti E N KY Vl' to know if he understood
the Right Honourable Gentlemaii,:that lie meant
to move for thirty millions exclusive of the three
millions
The CHANCELLOR of the EXC./IV:IA.IER replied,

that he proposed to take citikvote of ,thirty,ron-
lioos on. account ; .and when the General Sup-
p!ir,.9 for tht• year calve belore.the tion,se, a satis.
tactory.,stareno,ot of theit)ippropriation would,cf
coarse hronght forward.
Mr TIERN,Ey...w4s, desirous that the House
should, tookistand_whether the sum proposed
would be suitc,lent to ca.rry-gn the public service
betwec.it •now and. Easter, without any farther
Application, ox-what phois the Itight flonoikahle
Gentleman ,hati ,view for this phrpOse. Was
one part al, this son to he applied to .the public
service, and. another to the outstanding Exche-
quer bills 2 If he noders,tood the matter right, the
outstanding Hills due before Easter 'would not
aly•orh all this 2 (Tie chancellor Of the Ex-che-.
!per. nodded assritt,l,
*tided to_t he 3,000,000 k from the Land and M it
Dotics, would be the. ston.at ?
The CHANce2I,LoRot the EXCCI,EaUER presiontql
to say, that, the spat now volttl-wopLl
be sulT-
cieut to cover any outstanditig 'Bills due before

Easter... . .
TIERNF.Y.—Was :the amount of .the
cloopier Bills such as would absorb thewhole of
-
the 30,000,0001. Setore,Easter ? Then all, the sum
.voted for the poblic,'service was 3:,000„000/. -If
this was nut sufficient, the rest would remain .to
be made good, or added, to the deficitOcY. 'fhe
arnoutit'of the Ways -and Means never should ex-
ceed that of the, supplies
.voted. But still he was
not satisfied. iyhether l,te tinderstood Right
Hon. Gentleman that the amount of the Exalt:-
quer Bills to
.be paid would absorb the whole ofl
the
.30,000,0001. leaving only the 3,000,0001. for
the public service ?
The twANcELLO4 of the EXCHEUUER thought
there- corild be no question whatever that the
30,000,0001. would he principally wiled to the
discharge of those Bills, hut whether the whole
sour now propOSed would lie. Ilia's absorbed was
a question to which it was not posSible to give an
answer ; for the Right [ion. Gentleman must
know that Exchequer Bills of a later date were
not paid off before those of an earlier date. No
Exchequer Bills were due and payable, as he must
know, till font mouths after they were issued ;
and therefore it would be for Parliament to con-
sider of the means of providing for what might be
due at any future time of the year.
Mr. TIP.BNEY.—The assertion made by the
Right lion. lientleman, that this sum would en-
able him to•carry nu the public service till after
Easter, was certainly satisfactory. But he had
some little difficulty in anderstanding how it was
that so small a sum could answer the purpose. He,
however, wished for some information respecting
the 6,000,000 of Loan that was to be paid off.
Was there any understanding • with the Bank,
whether it was to be paid to the Bank by bills
or money ? they took bills, the Bank would
he precisely in the same sitoation as they were
now ; for they would have locked up in their cof-
fers 6,000,0001. for another year, with this ex-
ception, that the public were gaining only the
difference between the interest of 4 per cent. and
that borne by the bills. The subject also respect-
invite resumption of cash payments had now
become of the highest importance; and from this
day forward it should be his ofiket from time to
time to see what steps'were taking by the Bank to
resume those payments at the period fixed by law.
He would, however, assume, that for any thing
the Bank knew, awl God knew, he hoped he
:night Venture to say, for any-thing they wished
to the conitary, they might be able to snake those
payments at the time in question. But yet, if he
mete
.tightly informed, they had taken only one
step for that purpose, namely, that of preparing
gold. But it this preparation had been brought
about by an increased issue of notes, he should
then deny that the public would derive any be,
nefit. lie srrev several Gentlemen smiling, it ho
had not given attention to this important subject,
and therefore they might well be supposed igno-
rant of it. They seemed to say, " What world
k you hare better than payment in gold I." He •
would say, he would bare a reduction of their is-
sues irrpoper. Now respecting this payment of
6,000,0001., which it appeared the Batik had de-
manded towards enahling them to make their re-
sumption, if the Bank were to take paymeut in bills,
the only difference to the public wouldhe between
tour and three per cent. He therefore wished to
ask, whether any atrangement had taken place
for the payment in money or in Bank notes ? if
it were to be in mooey, well; but :if in notes, it
should be made a point of honour with the Batik
not to re-issue those notes so paid back to them.
But if they take Exchequer Bills, they have no
controul over the issue of Bank notes, because their
rule is- never to sell Exchequer Bills ;. indeed, by
the rule of the Mork, such bills cannot ba.sold;.
tor their charter prevents them from selling any
thing they cannot, buy. lf, therefore,. the Bank
were to receive those Exchequer Bills in payment,
lie would say, that except he found a considerable
redaction in Batik issues; he should move from
week to week, to see to what• minium their issues
were Such a measure would alone afford a %vitole-
some proof of retuning specie, without which all
the labours of Finance Counittecl.windd go for
nothing, as' long as the monstrous opinion pre-
vailed, that the paper of Government cannot be
converted into cash. He well knew there was a
most powerful body who lived only on, time tioetua-
tams of the day,whocared not what might happen in
another year, and to whom limiting was so pro-
doctive as leaving, every thing' in a state of un-
certainty. But he would put it to any. sedate and
well hammed man, whether lt:wasoot a duty
incumbent on all persons who knett the benefit
the country would derive fiotiva tel of cash
payntents, to exert themselves ,from day to day
while time measures for producing such a benefit
were in the course of adoption. This was one
of die most important sobject.,o that could inte-
rest the mind of fll4ll, Its it went to stew whether
,Great Britain should be the only country in Eo-
rope who should stand under the stigma of having
its legitimate curt tncy withheld on account of the
deep conneXinO that had existed bet ween a Go-
vernment and a Bank. Feeling as anxious, there-
fore, as he bad ma., tnly been; he was most de-
.sirons of ascertaining all that ctodd be known re-
specting. the transactions in question.
The CHANCULLOR of the EXCIIEQUER felt all
objection whatever to answer • the Hight• Hon.
questions, , Which be had.no
.reason

to tlonbt wire put with , a rierf to infqrm awl be.
tiefit the.pvblip. With respect to the 6,otVi 0001
Whether they were to be repaid in hills ot trei,
he.hall.not the least 'hesitat oo in saying that they
were. intended .to be repaid in utility.—(Heat,
hear !)—He, also '.tholight it most clearly desir-
-able that no question .shonbl exist respecting the
.Suspension ot, the Balik,,Payments till account of
any. accommodation given to Government, ,nd the
accounts.would be pit in 3uch.a situation as %N onhi
wove this to
.satijael ion of the Right lion.
Gentleman and every body
.else. But it it should
he ltis (buy, he would be prtipared to show, t
if tiny hirTheryestriction were absolutely advisable,,
it would litoit grounds,pertectly distinct from any
advances .nade. by the Bank to Government.
Jlee:i he, thought it highly desirable that the Batik
shoidd,be able to afford accommodations to trade
unfettered by ally such advances. Ott these
:grounds he Should sulmt,tthe plan to the House
for the payment of •6,.00,0,000/. alter the recess.
Of this sum at least, 1,000,000/. would be. saved
to the: public, by the arranenients that Shokild
he then made, and which would lead to the.wind-
nig tip of,a long aeconat. But certainly he' would
dect:ive. the House if. he were to intimate that
nothing would be wanting towards the public ser-
vice ; lie should not, at present, however, offer
.any thing that
,tnight li4d to anticiptce,ais discus-
slot). Yet, whether the Bank would resume dicir
sash. payments in the present year or the year to
cope., he.was anxions le.ave their to toe full
management.ot, their own resources..

TifiliNk? added, that nothing cool! be
more satisfaetfsly than Right Hon. Gentle-
man's .`answer respecting the G,Q60,000/. ; but he
hoped he bilnidd p-iit be disappoilded as to the re•
unction of their issnes.'zlk was swan is,ed,' how-
ever, at the levity-of the'Right
when alluding to so serious a subject as the re- '
somption of the cash -Payments'. -Whether they
wet e to take place " this year, • or the year to
come," was a most serious matter indeed. The
ground, however, on which the farther protrac-
tion was hinted at, was well known to every
body to be this—that great loans may rake place
in this comnry on behalf of foreign powers. Bat
would any man say that these loans were not just
as well understood in this country at the present
moment as they worth, be cix months hence ? Ditl
the Right Hon. Gentleman believe that prepara-
tions were not .making now, or that money was,
nut continually going out of this country for that
purpose,
.through many persons selling their pro-
inlay in order to transmit it abroad Did he not
know that large remittances . had been math:
abroad, either towards these loans, or for some
purpose or other ? But the result would be, that
these remittances would go on as usual. Theta
what grounds were there for continuing the re-
striction ? The Right Hon. Gentleman seemed
to thiek that the danger we should have to ineue
on this account by the sth of July next, would be
done away by she sth of June. It was known,
that amongst wirers, there was to be a loan of
3,000,0001. to Prussia, and the question was,
whether monied men could remit it littler now (se
then ? Why he dwelt so much on this toric tee,.
that the Chancellor of the Exchequer hail. suit.
that the Bank were prepared to pay in Jist.y.,, and
that them was mailing within probahility to pre-
. vent them.—(Hear, hear I Iron] the Chancellor or.
the Exchequer.)—He was glad to hear the Right
Hon. Gentleman cheer, because he litre )v
roared the -subject to this tinestion':--tetiethet-Ait•
no, in the Committee, that must, as a matter ot
course, be appointed, he would be able to obtain
satisfactory information front foreign merchants,
that foreign loans were iisjations to, this country?
lie, to his own part, thought not, and he would
tell the Hotise why. He had looked back at the
price if gold ar the time of the Austrian Loan in
179 G, and be had found that it had not advanced
in may, degree worth speaking of on that acconet.
Titer etore•he would say, let the Bank be liberal
in the purchase of gold, and tii4gardly in the sop-
ply of paper, and there would-be nothing to ap-
erehend. In fact; if gold did not then remain at
the Mint price, he would never-open his lips
that House again, at which many Gentlemen,
no doubt, would be very far front sorry..
Mr. F. Lswis thought it requires! no prophet to
convince every body that the resumption of cask
payments might be made with infinitely more ad-
vantage to the country this year than in the next.
• But there was a subject connected with the issues
of Bank paper that was of more consequence now
than ever. He alluded to the mass of Country
Bank Bills, CO which great importance had for-
merly been attached. Every body knew that the
operations of the Bank of England regulated those
of all other Banks, but the subject was sellout
inquired into. It was a fact, that within the last
two years and a half, no less than 25 millions of
Country Bank Bills had been withdrawn froth cir-
culation, and the consequences of which could
not be forgotten, ‘Vith respect to the price of
gold,—last year it was not above sd. or Gd. per
ounce above the Mint price—a mere trifle, so that
the Baok, by large porchases, might easily have
got rid of
,that millstone which had so long been
hanging rotund the necks of themselves and the
Public. He intreated Gentlemen to inquire into
this most important subject, and they would find
that Cotintiy Kink paper was issuing. now with
,he saute rapidity with which it was witherawn.
‘v.nild then say, that the rise in the price t f
every thing cannot be pi evented, became wilt
call tortli an abundance of this kind ot paper.—
Seeing, therefore, the vast importance of•thia
subject, he-woubl.intreat the Committee to as-
certain whether or not it were trnetiatt this enor-
mous mass of .130 k paper is rapidly re-issuing ;
and there was no cause why it should not re-issue,
0r any means to prevent•ii, while it is known that
the large snots or this kind in the Batiks form
the source ot. all their wealth. Could any matt
believe that. so large an amount could he again
sent into circulation without a tit cting the price of
'every thing ? Why ihen were we to go again
theerigh all the distresses and, destruction of the
last Iwo years that we had passed ? Cmcd it be
believed, that. when. Bank paper was not wanted
for the purpose of Government, it would not be
tiAnitd in a tenfold degree for the conveniences
commerce and traffic more than it is now
Such sixculations in !fatter rendered no ,pecies of
propel if secure. -Otte kinds n ere taxed on
of the por's rates, and all species of funded pit).

party were: depreciated, le- the .P,tl-ie suffered
by the advance- in the nf every necessary of
life. lie
.hoped thin would he devply in-
Anstred.itom before. it %V a 5 trievocably settled whe-
Oar the Bank_should or should not resume their
cash moyments in the course of •the present year.
Lord Casrne v.a6ti thought it extremely de-
sirrOnle that this. question should not now be,
pushed to a dkrussion, particularly as there were
not grounds sufficient heraae the House to raise • a
discussion upon it. Vie Gentleman who
spoke last. and indeed all whers, would do wrong
to his Nlaje“y's Ministers if they (lid not suppose
theni sittertely anxious that the Bank should.
. resume their cash payrnents as those Gtattlenien
apridd he themselves. Indeed it would be highly
_.gratifying to them if the 13ank payments and the
eircalatiou of the country could be restored as
Soil as possible. 1311! Gentlemen might rely oo
it that vuotia, would be made out to constitote a
.special cxse, shOold the Bank be likely nut to 're-
some their cash paymeuts at the. peri;ol in goes-
. tiott. lint he teas sure that 110 set of Gentlemen
• ware mote interested than those of that House, iii
taking care that the Bank should not be suffered
to open at a moment that would compel them to
• withhold all proper aceommodatiou Irmo the
country.' fie differed, however, front
.the Right
Lion. Gentleman (Mr. Tierney), who thought
-.that, no case could arise that ought to prevent the
Batik from resuming their payments, and world
say, that if a case should. arise of such large fo-
reign loans as %you'd render the withdrawing of
the specie from the Bank dangeroos, Parliament
owed it to (be country to renew the Restriction
bid, but not without a special case could be made
out. to the satisfaction ot the House. Foreign loans
might be contracted for of such magnitude as
might be truly alarming, and over which the
Councils of this country could have no controol.
.He apprehended that if the qoestionu were deemed
necessary to be brought before the House, it
would be found one infinitely more imperative
•and important than the 3,000,000 to Prussia al-
luded to by the Right Hon. Gentleman. But it.
was impossible, at the present moment,
.for Mi-
nisters to open to the House the circumstances
which in their judgment might renderiit necessary
to make a communication on the .subject at a
'future 'period. They- were, however, ready to
admit, and to repeat that there was nothing in
the remotest degree'comiected with our internal
state or our foreign relations, that cool(' form the
sligioest objection to the resumption of the pay-
ments at the period expected. But there might
grow out of -those great foreign transactions .the
•important coosideration,that they might menace the
operations of those arrangements of the Treasury of
the Bank that might compel'it to inflict a most
serious wound-on the country. He must dissent,
however, from the Right. fion. Gentleman that
there were any transactions in agitation that could
he obviated. Nothing was more fallacious than
this. But the question-for the-House might be,
how far the circulating medium, might be dimi-
nished by placing enormous capital on se-
curity out of this country. He hoped the House
and the Nation would look gravely and seriously
at this important consideration ; for when we
knew that 'money could now be raised at'home at
little more than two per cent., while by investing
it in foreign countries more than four times the
amount might he acquired, the eagerness to place
our capital in foreign fuuds mostba seen and ac-
knowledged. And then it became.a subject fur
consider.;tion. how such an operation might bear
on the treasures of the Bank. On the whole,
then, lie was of opinion, that no lion. Gentleman
would he. so bold as to imagine that a case might
not exist that might 'make it necessary to bring
the subject roger the deep consideration of Par-
liametit ; for if the Bank was necessitated to pay
in specie, the precious metals might presently be
swept from the country. He only hoped that-the
House would give his Majesty's Ministers credit
for- pat submitting tilis question to their considera-
tion til: the proper time, as it was one that in-
volved the best interests of the country, a ques-
tion that might tend to starve the circulation, and
thus be the greatest injury that could be counte-
nanced. It would be better to purchase a tri-
umph by even a little, procrastination, provided it
enabled us to look fait ly at the question ; but he
disclaimed, on the behalf of himself and his col-
leagnes, any view beyond what might appear on
a broad, distinct, and special case, for preventing
the renewal of cash-payments, it found necessary
during the present year.
Lord A. HatunaroN•made a few observations
on the foreign loans, but the noise occasioned by
Metabers. leaving the House, as soon, as Lord
Castlereagh had concluded,. rendered- him totally
inaudible. • •
Mr HAMMERSLEY observed that though there
was no desire to prevent persons-from investing
their money in foreign countries, they ought not
to be encouraged to do so. He alluded to an
article in the Treaty of 1814-15, which certainly
encouraged the subjects of this country to unrest
their money abroada• and this appeared to him to
het highly, objectionable. But the preference
given to the holders of foreign stock arose out of
the circumstances of the noire sit.

• -
CASVCEREAGH said the debt due to British
subjects,:Whichhad'heen -considered in the treat
of 1814, was one arising out of peculiar ,
circum-
stance.,
ividcli'''gave the parties,.a just claim on the
country. Thi!aiea'ngement which had been sti-
pulated in that treaty was to indemnify the par-
ties it 'affected, for English -property which had
been confiscated at the commencement of the
war, which - property had been placed in
the situation 'it was then found in, on the
faith of the Treaty of 1787, which gave
British subjects the right of withdrawing their
property from France,, in the event of a new war
breaking out. The clitims of -such -.persons had
been admitted in the treaty of Amiens, and the
faith of Government And of the country had been
pledged 10 support them. Had this not been done,
it might have been said that they had been en-
trapped into sending their goods to France by the
treaty of 1787. It was therefore thought neces-
sary to introduce an article on this subject into
the treaty of Amiens, and it was to give effect to
that, that the stipulation, contained in the treaty
of 1814, and that which appeared still more con-
spicuous in the treaty,of 1815, bad been brought
forward. It had been intended but to give relief

to one particnii.r 91.. persons who had risked
their property 'lnlet-- the treaty to which he had
referred. lie be.-ged that 'be might be distinctly
Uoderstspoil to copt,end that, British subjects; who
now placed their inhut Vin lbreign funds, would
'ace a similar ;fie .Got-eminent oft he
country.. If they chose so to dispose of their
property, the country would not be bound to en-
counter all tire inconveniences protracted war-
;.,
fate, to
_sec thein sale 'through their pecuniary
Speculations:" WhatbWd been done on the occa-
sions of which he had just, spoken, could only be
ailed for in 4,sPecial ease, where the subject act-
ed on a particular treaty, the observance of which
the country was hound to support.
Mr. 1-lAmmEßkitY expressed hints!-If much gra-
:ifird by the Statement which bad just been made,
but he tv,.s of 01)1111011 Lott) Auckland's treaty,
when it teas conelnded in 1787, teas never meant
Ottenci •to claimants like -ome of those whose
itit,re;ts had been attended to in the late treaties.
The resolution Was then- agreed to, as were
several whets, which passed without discussion,
the substance of which could not be distinctly
cetllrcted i:i the gallery. •
'rhe liouse 'then resumed, and the Report o
the Committee was °uteri:A to be received of
Monday.

SECRET COMMITTEE.

read,

: up the -Report of the
from which it appeared
on the following Mem-