The Sun.
London, England, 1842-06-04 00:00:00

then, they could' rib( be in '?more favourable circumstances for
trying the experiment on sugar than they were now. He would
only add that there was another reason why he considered they
would come to consideration of. the sugar duties this year, "
under favourible- cirournstinces. His Hon. Friend, who w.s
not now in his place, the Member for Nottingham, stated to -
them what were. the grounds on which he voted against the •
sugar duties last year.--:" Don't suppose us," he said, " suds
narrow-minded people as to allow any alteration in the sugar
suties or the timber „duties; that was all very well last year,'
hut now we are able to express those opinions which we
always entertained. 'flintier last year meant popery, and' 1
sugar meant revolution, and we- were opposing, not the sugar',
duty or the ; timber. duty, but a Government of Radicals and
Papists."—(Great laughter.) He (Mr. L.) was sorry the ;
Hon. Gentleman was not in his place now; he hoped he would
come down in the evening, as he thought he had a right to
his vote. He world only conclude by reminding the House ,
that they were called on to determine this question at a s eriod '
when it was one of vital interest and importance. Her Ma-
jesty's Government had advised her Majesty to issue her let-
ter, in which she had called on her opulent subjects to
administer to the necessities of their poorer fellow-country
men. No doubt the call would be responded to with that red- ;
diness with which the wealth and property of this country ;
always answered such appeals; but he would venture to say
that the House bad an opportunity to-night of conferring a
boon, of more advantage than could be done by the letter, if
they would accede to this motion.—( Rear, hear.) They would
at once open new , channels of trade, and at once reduce the
price of one of the greatest necessaries of life. He
trusted this appeal would not be made in vain. it
was with ~the utmost disappointment he hearth the an-
nounceinent of the Right Honoarable Baronet the First
Lord of the Treasury that he meant to exclude the sugar
duties from all amendment. He could riot help suspecting that
that course had been adopted, rather through a determination
to adhere to the course they pursued last year than any sound
policy. Sure he was, at least, that the course the Govern-
ment now adopted was strangely inconsistent with the principles
ohich. kad been announced by them in the course of the dis-
cussions which they had already had, and especially inconsistent
with the desire which the Right Hon. Baronet expressed him-
self to have for reducing the price of the articles of subsistence
of the people of this country; and he would ask them, if they
would be doing their duty to their constituents in opposing
this motion, when, by pursuing an opposite course, they would
he acting in accoreance with those principles of trade which
seemed to be universally acknowledged to be sound, and which
would confer au incalculable boon upon the commerce of this
)put,
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they.-- q(uL,.os
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bi eeei rnsg.
Mr. GLADSTONE rose. He said that the Right Hon.
Gentleman had congratulated himself en what he considered
to be the altered tone of gentlemen on his (Mr. Gladstone's)
side of the House, and appeared to think that there was a dis-
position to abandon the arguments or portions of the arguments
which were urged hist year in resisting the propositions of the
then GoVernment. He could see nothing to be abandoned in
the arguments then used.—( Hear, hear.) The discussions of
last year extended over no less .than ten nights in a single
debate, and in the present state of the public business he saw
the necessity for brevity. There was no contest last year on
the sugar duties with respect to commercial principles, but it
was contended that there were peculiar considerations, from the
connection with slavery add the slave trade, which exempted it
for a time from being dealt with as it ought to be ; on these,
grounds the Right Hon. Baronet opposed the late Govern-
merit, on the same grounds as he did it now. The whole
question still remained as it was then. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman lamented hoW little had been done by the tariff for
cheapening articles of subsistence ; that was no doubt true.
The gi eat bulk of the revenue which they had to give away was
not on articles of subsistence, but on articles of indus:.ro ;
and in doing so he thought they were more certainly
conducing to the comfort and well-being of the people, even
than by cheapening the articles of food. The Right Hon.'
Gentleman alluded then to a point on which he (MniGlad-
stone) should touch very briefly—the proposition of Mr. Grant '
in 1829. In 1629 Mr. Grant proposed to reduce the duty on .
foreign sugar to 285., and on West Indian to 205., leaving
only a protection to the West India over the foreign of es.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer then opposed that proposi-
tion, hut he did not do so on the ground of protection. The
Right Hon. Gentleman now raised the argument= ad Immi-
nent, and said that kis (Mr. Gladstone's) Hon. Friend was
wholly inconsistent. But the Bs. duty proposed under those
circumstances, would have been a prohibitory duty.—( Hear,
In point of fset, what the Right hen. Gentleman advanced
as a ground of his (Mr. Gladstone's) Right Hon. Friend's in-
consistency, showed, on the contrary, no inconsistency what-
ever in the matter. If Mr. Grant's plan had been adopted,
there would have been no loss on the score of revenue. The
Right Hon. Gentleman appeared tothink that no great stress
would be laid, in resisting his motion, on the ground of
revenue.-(Hear, hear.) On the contrary, he (Mr. Glad-
stone) believed there • were conclusive objections
to his motion on the ground of revenue, and that
too without reference to other considerations. Looking, at the
financial estimates of the year, he (Mr. G.) submitted that
the Right Hon. Gentleman's plan was inadmissible on finan-
cial
grounds alone. He had endeavoured to consider what
would be the effect of the Right Hon. Gentleman's plan on ..he
finances of the country, and he would venture to state to the .
House that it was by no means an extravagant estimate to state
that the adoption of that plan would cause a deficiency in the
revenue of 600.0001., that it was a most liberal estimate to lay
the deficiency, at 400,0001. The net revenue from sugar was
5,400,0001. If there should be no increase in the consumption
of that article (and from the present state of trade and em-
ployment none was likely ), the Right Hon. Gentleman's pro-
position would only admit of a revenue of 4,548,0001. to be
derived from sugar, thus leaving a deficit of 852,0001. And
what—even admitting that an increase in consumption
took place —what would be the amount to put as
sett-off against that sum. Why, 218,0001., which
would leave a deficit of 632,0001. He would now proceed to
another subject. to which he thought it necessary to advert.
The Right lion. Gentleman was wrong in supposing that the
only ground of opposition to his motion would be a financial
one. The price of sugar in the year 1841 was 395. 7d. per
cwt. ; in 1842 it was 38s. 2d. per cwt., showing a fall in the
year 1842 as compared with 1841. They had also every
reason to believe that there would be a much larger supply of
sugar this year fro'm British possessions than there had been
last year, and consequently they were justified in entertaining
no apprehension as to a rise in the price of sugar, but, on
the contrary, in looking forward to a fall. There was one
material alteration in the Hight Hon. Gentleman's plan as
compares! with the pl •si of the late Government. The Right Hon.
Gentleman left a protective duty of 10s. sat British colonial
sugar, while the plan of last year gave a protective duty of Us.
on sugar of an inferior description, and 18s. on •superior. sugar.
The Itio,ht Hon. Gentleman had thrown away an additional
6s. without saying one word. That was hardly consistent with
the general principle upon which his plan was founded. That
difference of 10s.- duty, given as protection te British sugar,
would ba more than counterbalanced by the superior quality
of the sugar sent from Cuba, upon which cheaper labour
could be bestowed, to an extent not in the power
of the British producer. In fact, that protection
was altogether a nominal one. The Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman had also presumed that great
stress would be laid on the tendency of the adoption of his
motion to stimulate the production of sugar by slave labour,
and consequently to stimulate the slave trade; and the RigiO
floss Gentleman said, with a frankness end sincerity that
would not be doubted, that if he believed the adoption of his
motion would have such an effect, he would abandon his propo-
sition. Now the price of sups is the British market was 383.
or 395., and the price of sugar in bond was from 19s. to 20s.
If then the British market was thrown open, would it not have
a tendency to the production of a larger quantity of sugar, arid
consequently give a stimulus to the slave trade ?—( Hear. )
With regard to the negotiations with foreign countries, the
Right Hon. Gentleman said, it was better to make the change
n the sugar duties first, and then proceed with the rsegotia.
thins.• But they were wring on with negotiations with States
who had the utnuot reluctance on the subject, and were they
; to throw away the consideration for which these treaties were
to be obtained? But the Right Hon. Gentleman would throw
away that by which they could work on the interests of those
States, and then ask them for what they were unwilling to
give. It was a material question for the consideration
of the House to know the effect of this measure on the slave
trade. The Hon. and Learned Member for Bath had said that
interference was useless, and that they might as well interfere
with the practice of domestic slavery. Was there nothing,
then, obtained by-the great sacrifices of this country? He re-
joiced that there was. The low price of sugar in the markets
j of Europe, had a salutary and powerful influence on the pur-
suit of the slave trade; which low price was produced not only
by the exclusion of that sugar from the-British market, but by
I other measures adopted on the Continent of Europe ; and par-
ticularly by the doubling of the duty on sugars by the German
Customs Union. He would pass over the growing feeling in
those countries themselves against the slave trade. be-
cause lie would be only repeating what had been said by his
bight Honourable Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
The valuable informatiou given by Mr. Baudinet was clear
upon that point. The rate of insurance on slave adventures
also indicated the success of the measures which had been taken
for the suppression of the slave trade. From the year 1817
until the conclusion of the treaty in 1835, the importation of
slaves into Cuba, was 40,000 a-year. When the treaty with
Spain, establishing the right of search and ether severe mea-
sures were passed, the imporation decreased. In 1838, the
importation was 38,000; in 1839, it was 25,000; in 1840, it
was reduced to 14 417. With regard to Brazil, the facts were
still stronger. Id 1838 the insportation into Rio alone, was
47,000 ; and into all the ports it was 94,000. In 1839, the
importation into Rio was 28,000 ; into the entire country it was
56,000. In 1640, the importation into Rio was 7,000 ; the
total amount was I 4,000 ; making a difference of one •sixth in
the course now asked
facts
k;e
.if
it
th
was rout
niitt.if of two yaso—
.theseweerernoHaer.) He
most
important
most important they should not run the risk of stopping
the course of events so satisfactory to the adoption of a measure.
which would at once apply a stimulus of a powerfid description
to the slave trade, namely, a remunerating price in the markets
of Great Britain for slave-grown sugar ?—( Hear, hear. ) And
if these was one thing more than another which would be likely
eembaacnkof
and
to check the encouragement for the abandonment of the slave
trade, it was the unortunate influence which the knowledge
that there were in that House gentlemen who would, at all ha-
zards, open the British markets to their produce, must exer•
anysuch intention.
that it was
know
rise on the people of Spain and the Brazils. He therefore ;
on such a subject the late Government were deserted in
the hour of their extreme need, and it
aßcuqtuiitttemd,atshae
sßatiigthfatetHioonn.toGlonoktl
was a still greater sa-
tisfaction to hope that the present Parliament would, by a
greater and still more decisive majority thau was obtained
on that occasion, maintain its determination not to pursue
that course of policy marked out by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman ; and in approaching the commercial consideration of the
sugar duties, endeavour so to approach it its to combine the be-
nefit of the consumer with the more important interests of hu-
manity at large.—( Cheers, )
Mr. HUME said, that if the House was determined to put
an end to slavery, by excluding all articles that were the pro-
duce of slaves, be trusted they would exclude cotton, tobacco,
and other things, and if they did so, then he would believe they
were its earnest ; but when Hon. Members talked of slavery
abroad, without considering their population at home, , he
doubted their sincerity. The Hen.• Gentleman who had just
sat down. had had several new lights broke in upon him since
lasf Year. He thought they ought to direct their attention to
this question as a commercial question, and to consider how far
they could reduce the duty. He believed that West India pro-
perty was never in s 0 bad a state as it was at present, as estates
an that country had produced no-profit. What was the cause
of all this ? Why keeping uP improper prices. It was a noto-
rious fact at. the present moment, that a black in the West
Indies cOuld obtain more in seven hours than an Eng-
lishman in sixteen. He believed that, by the course that
injustice
had been adopted, gross was being done both to
the consumer and producer.—(Hear, hear.) The course
he thought ought to be adopted in fairness to the planter was
to remove restrictions, and allow him to carry his produce to
the best market. Let them free the colonies from every re-
striction, and the best results might be expected. He thought
keeping up this enormous duty was second only to keeping up
the Corn-laws. He thought the Hight Honourable Gentle•
man's argument with respect to the slave trade ought to be
scouted altogether. He wished, instead of his turning his at-
tention to slaves abroad, he would do so to the slaves at home.
The Right • lion. Gentleman said that the revenue could not
bear the proposed reduction in the sugar duty ; but in his
opinion, the revenue like every other national interest, would
ultimately benefit by the alteration. The people of this
country had not the means of contributing to the revenue,
while they contributed at the same time, as was the
case under a system of racholtly) to enrich individualP.