The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-20 00:00:00

Mr. HENLEY wished the clause to be postponed.
Sir J. GRAHAM had no objection to the postpone-
roent of the clause, if such were the pleasure of the House.
.The clause was then postponed, and the following
clauses down to the 22d inclusive, were then put and
ilegatived,
• On clause 23, providing that the occasional poor be
set to work, subject to the power of the Poor-law Com-
Inissioners,
Mr. REDHEAD YORKE suggested the omission of
the words "subject to the power of tlitSPoor-law Corn-
, inissioners.”
SRARINIANCRAVFORD objected to the clause.
e. would divide usison it.
The .s.,Conlin'.',,tee then divided, and the numbers were—
r
s: er. the clause B4
,:"0- Against it
Majority for the clause . —76
t4ossiskoses from 23 to 26 were agreed to.
"'Clauses from 26 to 37 inclusive were struck out.
''''ss.Clause 38, after a desultory discussion, was expunged
Without a divisien.
Clauses 38 to M were omitted without any discussion.
z
Clause St was agreed to.
Clause 52 was (as we understood) omitted.
celause 53 was agreed to with a verbal amendment.
5.,-sClauses 54, 55, and 56, were agreed to.
On clause 57 some discussion took place on the pro-
.,l),rietY of allowing a Magistrate, xho is also a Member
lioard nt Guardians, to sit as judge in cases in which
.s. ll'artl. of Guardians were the prosecutors.
.'lrs AGLIONBY wished to record his objection to the
r of a Magistreze to act in the double capacity of
,7Nigs and prosecutor, and moved an amendment to
erevent it
sic adwhich was agreed to, and the clause so
anas
eves opt ed.
clause
and,tls put,
60, were severally agreed to.
rOre 62 u
proposed a clause preventing tbe inter-
erencell of the Poor-law Commissioners, when the
theiJorit of rate-payers were satisfied with the work-
a Local Act.
7• GRAHAM said the clause proposed by the
Gentleman was decidedly at variance with the ex-
law. The understanding was, that they should
h°Tturing that Session, propose any material alteration
tua't law. Nearly two-thirds of the population would
removed beyond the control of the Commissioners if
~71, clause was passed.
'aPtain PECHELL supported the clause.
Iter a few words from Sir C. BURRELL,
iest• T. DUNCOMBE thought that, according to the
ss","ments of the Right Hun. Baronet, they ought to
keeal the Local Acts, as the Government seemed to be-
kb that the poor were badly treated under such Local
,11„5. But this was not the case in his own parish, and
of St. Luke's, and St. Andrew's, Holborn, which
ash `thes possed Local Acts. It was very clear that if
e Government had the will, they had not the power to
al those Local Acts.nod •
l• Committee then divided,
-For the clause 42
• Akainst it 9l
tn. -!a" Majority against the clause
(itir Preamble of the Bill was then agreed to. The
eisitt`-'wqe resumed, and the Report was ordered to be re-
to-morrow.
*les.;
!steal, AUSTRALIA BILL.
Souse then resolved itself into Committee on
this Bill.
ssees,
o*.nuses 1 to 3 were agreed to.
Clause 4 being proposed,
z`r' HUME wished to ask the Noble Lord at what
t:Li°d this clause would come into operation ?
intr°,rd STANLEY said the elective principle would be
~-°"liced into the colony as soon as it was able to
4 :the fit and proper expenses. He thought the
dot
principle ought to be introduced.
alsor r' HUME said it would depend on what the Noble
situ! considered fit and proper expenses. He (Mr.
rs-r) understood that the estimate was 40,0001.
clause was then agreed to.
ar,:lauses 5 to 7 were also agreed to.
1),, clause 8 being proposed,
;hsur
-i-r• HUME said he was aware it would be quite
to expect an immediate payment of the
-totna which had been granted to this colony, but he did
ens ce why they should not keep a lien upon it to
idure their re-payment. T Act of Parliament pro-
-4414 a security for any sums that might be advanced,
alio what he (Mr. Hume) wanted was, that the Act
tisald be enforced. Provisions had been made for the
wreftil that payment of any loans, and he wanted to know
,sit,Y that provision should not be acted up to. He
txullirl be glad if the Chancellor of the Exchequer would
yaill these circumstances.
1444 CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated,
When he accepted office, he found the colony labour-
pOnder a debt of 155,c00L, which it had no means of
on
eslig• He saw that it was no use to overwhelm the
-s••
sossY with an enormous debt, and it was a mattr of
azi ideration with him how he should act so as toepre-
Jrrive the colony and protect our own interests ; he
t_oeesdered that by making a fair compromise be-
then mother country and the colony, they
hereafter
afford a fair opportunity to the colony of
tru e.:lrter Paying the loans which had been advanced.
a the circumstances, and believing that the colony
would soon be able to bear this charge, and attain to
Prosperity, he thought it would then afford means of
extending our commerce in that part of the globe, and
Zuli repay us, though not directly, the interest of the
14-1-y we had advanced.
tiot,‘Mis we
concurred with his Hon. Friend that the
er the colonies could be induced to trust to them-
btet [svile4,.aild not look to this country for revenue, the
„
it would be for them and for the mother country.
bes;r, HUME could not agree in the policy which had
oY sh4tete,,,cl upon with regard to this colony, as explainedlllght Hon. Gentleman opposite. The House
'rein tisto uuderstand what had been the course pursued
I,:;'s t7l Passing of the Act in 1834, when they had be-
"lieth curia, eyes the ruin of the Swan River settlement.
the Bill was proposed he asked what se-
n3p-eh-lay had that what had occurred there would not
; but he imagined, after the experience
tat.t"Y had gained in that colony, that care would
ey the to g against similar evils. It was intended
stvil --esaPpaatrrncet of' Commissioners to avoid those
'llsse,suot it appeared that the Commissioners, and
‘lssis'ulonial-office of the day, had never under-
}., each other. He accused Lord Glenelg _ ofe
becigrossest incapacity, and the most blameable
11,1-g:ll°e- The Hon. Member then alluded to the ap-
-4411-.ent of Captain Hindmarsh and Col. Gawler. Col
Wii,Zkr went out in 1828, and remained till 1840 ; and
tittsa did they learn from the Report ? It
eerie that a debt of 296,0001. had been in-
% et" under Colonel Gawler's governorship ; yet that
bin nor had obtained credit from the Noble Lord for
qta-Sal%tl management and discretion. When Colonel
kf10,,,,`" began to draw the bills, what course was
The'Noble Lord appointed the ColOnisation,
consisting of Colonel Torrens, Mr. Elliot, and
kent'Llliers, who had authority under the Act of Parlia-
ttae
ecito borrow 120,0001. Part of that sum was bor-
h A proposal was made to borrow more, upon
"e Commissioners disagreed. Two of the Board
A'as, against borrowing any further sum ; Colonel
eas was for borrowing money to answer
VllO .demands which were to be made upon them.
Ivouiieasury took three months to decide whether they
si!' give authority to borrow money or not, and when
teki:lenv,elober the authority was given, nobody would
)ney ; the consequence was, that considerable diffi-
lia",-,4",`'ss, and, in order to remove that difficulty, the
rssan-eellor of the Exchequer, in 1840, tried to raise the
..4 by loan to enable them to meet the
itsha that were coming home. This was found
t. 4 eraeti( able, and, at last, they were obliged
*lii%rac to that House for a loan of money,
IVlta-ti Was granted. The result of the whole
and the greatest distress existed in the colony,
esde`o,ooo/. or 25,000/. had been paid in poor-rates in
(4! srt° Support those who had been ruined. In his
4th' "Some's) opinion, Colonel Torrens was the only
eee Woo had done his duty, and . for doing that he had
49: removed. Such being the case, he thought the
tosP ought not to give the money in the way the Noble
sks ihijrcPesed. Ho had no objection to the House ad-
i4igti the money, but it must hold the responsibility.
tpsti otherwise, it would be giving a sanction. to every
theZ of -On these grounds, he wished to have
coIC-Itate so altered as to give this country a lien on the
itteillTY for the money. He believed that Lord Glenelg
roe 'Ord John Russell had neglected their duties with
Ivt'bi''ct to this colony, and such being the case, the
k responsibility of the evils that had taken place
ttik.4l„:_' 9n them. They saw the evil coming, aod took no
te 1;r of preventing it. He thought the best way, would
\*iiideave out the clause altogether, the result which
Nl.' he to leave the advance of the money on the pre
taisisllg Act of Parliament, and then the Government
t obtain it as they could. He would, therefore,
I.° to leave out the clause.
4q. c'rsd STANLEY said it was no part of his duty to
Wbutil.,q the conduct of the late Government, but he
tros not go the length of the Hon. Member for Mon-
Ass:' and hold Lord Glenelg and Lord John Russell as
-otZallY responsible. He believed that the House of
that and Parliament were responsible for the evils
lksse,Vad taken place, because the Acts that had
that created a divided responsibility. He believed
the affairs of the colony had been carried
thieo)" an extravagant scale, but he did not
had Gawler was alone blameable for than
1144 bleuestion for the House now was, not whether ti ere
%kith, 41 Mismanagement but how they were to put the
l'cessL°ll a right-footini. He thought the grant was
'7ll,'Y, amid he should therefore vote for it.
ttion.);: WOOD denied the right of the colsny to come
°Lists:Country for so large a sum as 155,0001. If the
't th:t 7,ceded to this demand, they might depend up,.
The ,r3l would next year be called upon to repeati.t.
s,'"ostnittee then ear be
the clause 73
Against it
The Majority in favour of the clause
The clause was then agreed to.
House remaining clauses were then agreed to, and the
NilloN„,..nuned. Report ordered to be received this day.
&c. (WARWICK AND LANCASTER)
Sir C, BILL.
"141 Bill DOUGLAS proposed the second reading of
Ir.
:ru'rtti:r
tietr AGLIONBYd opposed the motion, and recom-
e e 0 propriety at that late hour, of postponing
%vat S°lll"eratio-n of- 'the Bill till some future day. He
tart
its.(l)lo,,t, of opinion, that a Bill of this nature should
„ „ in by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secre-
individ the
„ , flume Department officially, and not by any
04 -1.4 Member of the House.
lag 44,111. tGERTON could see no reason for not read-
-kr it'll a second time at once.
lle sh'u 4- PHILIPS opposed the principle of the Bill.
Oft, aght they ought to have the opinion of the Law
ela of they advanced the Bill
other the Crown before
Sir stags,.
bou
should b GLAS retained his opinion that the Bill
e read a second time now.
asp '4.• 131Surril
Alreed. ERTON moved that the debate .be now