The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-03 00:00:00

in use at the universities of this country, infinitely more ob-
jectionable than any of those cited by the Hon. Member. But
he merely said this in order to show that they should all be
guided, in ques ions of this sort, by none other feelings than
those of Christian charity.
Mr. COLQUHOUN said he would like to hear from the
Hen. Member some proof of his assertions. He would, there-
fore, ask the Hon. Member whether he would now, or at any
future time, undertake to prove what he had stated ?—( Hear,
ihear.) If he could prove it, he (Mr. Colquhoun) would under-
take to come down to that House and institute an inquiry into
the systems of education at these colleges, and if they should be
prated to exist, then he would say they were undeserving of
public confidence.—(Hear, hear.) He would, therefore ac-
cept the Hon. Member's challenge ; but he would defy him to
prove his statement. As to the Hon. Member denying the
!statement of the Hon. Member for Kent, had they not the
books of Maynooth College in the library here, in which they
• found those ultra-trarnontane opinions which were so dangerous
to the peace of this country ?
Mr. WYSE said that " Dens" was not, and had not been,
taught in Maynooth. He was ready to point out passages in
the works of Protestant authors, which would be considered by
the Committee as condeinnab!e. He would take Luther, for
instance. In one of his works he said, " Free will is an empty
'name, and if God foresaw that Judas would be a traitor, it was
not in his power to be anything else." This was only a Pro-
testant book.
3lr. COLQUIIOUN wished to know what this had to do
with the question. The Hon. Member for Waterford had said
that he had come unprepared,—(Crirs of " No, no.")
Mr. WY SE— I did not say so.
31r. COLQU NOUN—The simple question before the House
awas were they to provide for teaching opinions which were op•
posed to social order and constitutional peace in this country ?
If the House slit-relit agree to this measure they would be guilty
of the greate't folly and want of respect to the country.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said that from the coolness with
which east lion. Gentleman had spoken he could hardly believe
that. l.e had unintentionally misrepresented the lion. Member
toe 'Waterford.
The CHAIRMAN called the Hon. Member to order.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL—He had said that he could
hardly believe.—( Laughter.) He would, however, withdraw
the expression. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Kent
had gutted a passage on the subject of theft. The Hon. Gen-
tleenau did not perhaps believe in the doctrine of good works.
e ( Mr. M. J. O'Connell) believed that it was admitted that
She poorer classes of the Irish people were peculiarly absent
(from petty theft. If their doctrines were not of a social ten-
dency would this result be shown? At any rate the Irish
people were not so bad as the cotistituentssl Of Hon. Member
for Kent,for they had never worshipped a maniac as the second
Messiah.
Mr. eI:UNWIRE inquired if the doctrines to which he had
alluded. were not taught in Maynooth, why they were not ex-
punv,ed from the books there?
• Mr. M. MILNES, as an English gentleman and a Pro-
testant, would express his conviction, having paid some
attention to this subject, that arguments that could be deduced
from certain passages in the text books of Maynooth ought not
to be brought in connexion with the measure before the House.
The instruction given in Maynooth was similar to that in loyal
Austria, and moat Catholic countries.
Mr. PIGOTT said that in answer to the assertion of the
Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Colquhoun) that ultramontane
doctrines, which exalted the supremacy of the Pope, were
taught in Maynooth, he would read a short passage
from the evidence of the principals of that College,
.gives before a Committee of that House. He would
refer to the evidence of the President, Vice-Presi-
dent, and Dean of the College of Maynooth, who were the
only persons charged with the discipline of the college. In
answer to the question whether the Transalpine doctrine, as
contradiatinguished from Cisalpine doctrines, was inculcated in
Maynooth, Dr. Crolly, then the president of the college, re-
plied "It never has. —( Hear, hear.) Mr. Montague, vice.
president, and now president of the collage, was asked respecting
Dr. De la Long's tra. t de Ecclesia, which was a text book at
Maynooth, and whether Dr. De la Long had not lectured in
favour of the Transalpine doctrine. He replied that he had not
heard Dr. De la Long's lecture, but he knew that he was a
strong advocate of the Gallican liberties as any Frenchman
could be. But he had heard Dr. Akeson lecture on the tract,
" De Ecclesia," and he was more vehement that Dr. De la
'Long against the ultramontane doctrine. The third person was
Dean Dowley, who said that the ultramontane doctrine was
not taught or incti.cated, ea- encouraged at Mar nooth.
( Hear, hear.) Having read those extracts, he would leave the
Honourable Gentleman to prove his assertion.—(Thar, hear. )
Mr. COLQUHOUN said that he admitted the statement
which bad been made by the Honourable and Learned Gen-
tleman, that the professors said they dist not teach the ultra-
montane doctrine, but the citations in the report from which
the Honourable and learned Gentleman quot d, and the evi-
dence adduced, showed that such doctrines were inculcated.
lie would be ready at a future time to prove that, and he I
nailed the Honourable and Learned Gentleman to that point.
'Mr. REDINGTON said he recollected that a Mr. Col-
epahoun made certain assertions with respect to a Roman
Cat odic school in Glasgow, which he believed was under the
superintendence of the Town Council. The charges he made
raised considerable indignation, and Mr. Colquhoun was called
on to prove his statements ; but if he (Mr. Redington) recol-
lected righ, he failed to do so, and a vote of censure was
passed upon him. Such was the individual who was so ready
to nail others to the mast.—(Hear, hear.) He had another
remittiscence of an Irish kind, for he recollected that a Mr.
Colgulioun, a Member for Kilmarnock, made a charge
'that the national schools were taught by Ribbonmen, but
it afterwards turned out that he had his information from a
Mr. Price, whom he met in a steamboat, who said that indeed
they were blackguards.—( Laughter.) Why, what better evi-
dence could there be of the doctrines taught at Maynooth than
that of the persons who had the direction of the college? The
lion. and Learned Gentleman said he would find those doe-
trines inculcated in certain book. in Maynooth. Would the
Mon. Gentleman be responsible for every page of Locke ?
fur every argument of Paley ? Would he answer for al the
eetravagancias to he found in all the authors to be met with in
the Universities of Oxford or Cambridge. —( Hear, hear.) He
listened with pain to the debate which had arisen upon this sub-
ject.—(Cheers.) He could assure Hon. Gentlemen that the
Roman Catholic Members of that House permitted many
calumnies to be uttered against their religion without attempt-
' ing to refute them, because they were aware that religious
discussions tended to no geed and Christian end ; and which
calumnies, if true, would be disproved by the actual state of facts.
If only one-half of the calumnies uttered against that religion,
and the doctrines they were said to inculcate, were true, then
that religion rideh was professed by the majority of the
Christian world, must be one of the worst systems of Chris-
tian morals ever heard of. That religion was in existence for
lt3 centuries, and it Would be astonishing that if it inculcated
such doctrines that it should be so flourishing as it was at the
present day.—( Cheers.)
Sir R. PEEL said he saw with pain the discussion which
bad arisen, and it convinced him that that House as at present
constituted was ill suited for discussing questions of that kind.
—( Heat-, hear.) He stated before that her Majesty's Go-
vernment had considered whether it would he advantageous to
institute an inquiry into the state of education pursued at
Maynooth. They had read the report of 1,536, and they came
to the conclusion that it was very improbable that any new
light could be thrown upon that system by a further inquiry.
They had o leers appointed who were to visit the College once
a year, and they were to inquire into the management,
government, and discipline of the College ; and besides
that, the Lord-Lieutenant had a power in addition of directing
an inquiry into its management, government, and discipline.
He entreated Hon. Members who discussed the religious opi-
nions of others to beware how they drew an inference from
doctrines to be found in books there.—( Hear, hear.) He called
the attention of the Hon. Member for Kent particularly to the
questions put to the Professors at Maynooth when examined be.
tore the Commissioners. The Professor was asked, " are you
aw. re that Paley, in treating of promises, undertakes to show
that promises are not binding where the performance is impos-
sible, where the performance is unlawful, where it contradicts a
former promise, where released by the promisee, and where the
promise was erroneous; it was not (Paley said) binding in cer-
tain cases." The Professor answered that he hail not t rad that
work of Paley's, but the same principles were inculcated there
as in the College of Maynooth.—(llear.) The Professor
was asked whether it wets not true that in the third
Council of Lateran certain 'punishments were not decreed
easiest the Albigenses, and that spiritual authority might re-
lease the subjects of a Sovereign from their allegiance. What
did the Professor of Dogmatic Theology say in answer to
this question, and what were the doctrines then taught at
Alaynooth ? He said that, supposing the Council of the
Pope, or any other authority whatever in the Catholic
Church, assumed the right of absolving subjects from their al-
legiance to their Sovereign, he would disregard their decisions
and consider the subject by no means free from the obligation—
he would not only disregard such an opinion but he would con-
sider it his duty to resist it, and advise such of the people as
were committed to his care to do the same, and remain unshaken
in their allegiance. Let the House consider not what
might be found in certain hooks, but what the teachers believed
and inculcated, and in this they would find nothing incom-
patible with their duty to God, their duty to their neighbours,
or 'their duty to their Sovereign.—(Cheers.)
The other clauses were agreed to, The schedules were also
agreed to.
On clause 10 being proposed,
Mr. lIINDLEN moved that the Chairman report progress.
Cries of " No, no.")
Mt. LAW said he would not trouble the House further
than by saying that he was opposed to the principle of endow-
ing the College of Maynooth out. of the Consolidated Fund.
He would simply move that this clause be expunged from the
Bill.

The Howe then divided, when there appeared
Fur the amendment
Against it
Majority 122
(in our being, re-admitted to the gallery, we found
Me. HINDLEY at the table, addressing the Chairman. He
said that he would appeal to Hon. Members whether he had not
'risen before the amendment was put, and afterwards he had
again got up to speak to the question. Although he had thus
risen in ample time, he had yet failed to catch the Speaker's
eye. He felt that this was a matter which regarded the House
rather than hima If.
11r. GREeN.E said he had certainly thought it right to
call first upon the Hon. Member who had the notice upon the
paper. He had not after :wards seen the Hon. Member rife.
Mr. HINDLEY expressel himself satisfied with the expla-
nation.

On clause II being put,
Mr. LAW said that, atter the House had so re,:ently d:-
viael, he should be contented with mer
merely proposing to nega-
tive this clause.
Mr. HANDLEY, with great warmth, said that the false fir,
of Cambridge had deceived him, and he should' never ar ;
matter that he thought of importance to any other Honourable
Member.
Sir B. 11. INGLIS wished to add clause to this measure,
in order to prevent, in the event of a future Bill being
brought in, the co ttingency giving compensation
to those persons who had received from the Maynootli
fund fur the period ,4 thirty years ; and asrCh
no other form of entering his protest against suchmselpf principle,
he would at once bring in a clause ordering that notahing in the
Act would entitle any person who had received the pecuniary
advan•ages arisMg from this fund for a period of thirty years,
to claim compen.ation fur any invested inter*sts, supposing it
to be conferred by this or any other Act.
Sir 11. PEEL said he could not unders'and that anything
enacted now should bind Parliament in respect to any
a case,
yfature
measure. But he could un,!erstand the possibility o
in which, if the Le 4islattire had even resolved to have no m:
me '
to do Nvth Maynoo h College, a professor who had conducted
himself well shou'd be considered entitled to compensation.
Ile would oppose the clause.
After a few worts from I. J. O'CONNELL,who
opposed
the clause,
The clause was read a first time.
On the question that the clause be read a second time,
Mr. LABOUCHERE expressed a hope that the Right lion.
Baronet would withdraw the clause.
After a few words from Sir It. INGLIS in reply, the
question of the sec and reading of the clause was put and nega-
tived without a division.
The report was then brought up, and ordered to be received
on Monday.
CLEARING OF ESTATES IN SCOTLAND.
On the motion that the orders of the day be now read,
'11'041,1 UL E said that before the adjournment of the
144 d ' call the attention of the flie.t lion.
'y for the Dome Department, to a para-
seen in a newspaper that dry, to the effect
:given to four hundred families, in the

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