The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-26 00:00:00

B I RKB ECK TESTIMONIAL.

A public meeting was yesterday held at the Freemasons'
Tavern, Great Queen-street, • for the purpose of receiving the
Report of the Committee am-tainted (at an adjourned public
meeting in the theatre of the London Mechanics', Institution,
on the 3d of August, 1841) to take into consideration the beat
means of testifying the public gratitude to Dr. Birkbeck for
his services in promoting.the education of the people, especially
by the promotion of Mechanics' Institutions, Lord Brougham
in the Chair.
The meeting was advertised to take place at one o'clock, but.
long before that hoar, persons began to arrive, and by the time
the chair was taken, the Hall was crowded. There were seve-
ral ladies in the body of the Hall and also in the Gallery. Lord
Brougham took the chair at twenty-five minutes after one
o'clock. /Cs Lordship was greeted with the most enthusiastic
cheeringafrom all parts of the Hall as he entered. Lotd John
Ruesell,,who made his appearance upon the platform imme-
diately after Lord Brougham, was also loudly applauded. On
the platform we observed Lord Dudley Stuart, Mr. Hume, Psi. P.,
Mr. Roebuck, ALP., Dr. Bowring, M.P., Mr. Monckton
Mines M.P.
Lord BROUGHAM, on taking the Chair, said, It is impossible
for the to open the business, the important business of this
day, business which I may venture to describe as at onee
me-
lancholy and gratifying, without observing in my own vindica
tion,. not so much fur having come among _you on present,
as for having on so many former occssiontduringt last too
or three years found myself under the absolute necessity
of declining to accede to so many applications from
many persons I see assembled to-day to attend public
nutetings. I may add that the rule which I was
unliged to lay down to myself, I should most
.cheerfully have
once more broken, as I have broken it this morning, if ever_
as is very unlikely—in your day, or in mine, au occasion should
again arise which called upon you and me, and the people of
this country, to testify their seuse of gratitude for the obit-
eations they have received from the late Dr. Birkbeck.—
(Cheers.) •speak from a knowledge of upwards of five-arl-
forty years of the late Dr. Birkbeck, and I bear testimony to
his talents, to his learning, to his worth, and to his constant,
steady, and strenuous devotion to all the best interests
of mankind.—(Cheers.) He well kne‘e—and his conduct
was formed on the maxim that the noblest of all pursuits is the
pursuit of truth, and that the highest of all duties is the diffu-
sion of it among our fellow creatures,--(Cheers)—that human
reason has no worthier, or more noble employment than its in-
vestigation, and that its propagation among mankind is the
only legitimate use and province of all human eloquence.—
( Cheer'.) Nor letsuch observations as these be deemed trivial,
because they are self-evident, and perhaps trite, when we re-
collect how many gifted men in all ages and countries have
sinned against these rules—(Cheers)--and, suffering them-
selves to be led away by corrupt and sordid and selfish
feelings, or blinded by party prejudices, have perverted
the faculties with which Providence has endowed them, to
mislead, and not guide their fellow creatures—(Cheers)—
not pursue and propagate truth, but to devise errors in all their
forms, from venial and slight mistake up to wilful, perverse, and
pernicious delusions.—( Cheers.) When we recollect this, we
must deem it, not a superfluous honour, nor unbecoming, that
it is neither without its use, nor foreign from our duty to
reeditate on such a life ae that of Dr. Birkbeck'a, and to profit
by inch an example as he has left ue.—(Cheers.) Now, it was
the peculiar province of that excellent and useful man, and
it was during the whole of his career the constant
object of his exertions, by all the means in his
sneerer and by the unremitting and successful application of his
endowments, wheiher natural or acquired, to labour inces-
santly en behalf of the working classes of this country.—
(Cheers.) The friend of peace, including foreign peace and
elomeatic tranquillity, the friend of education in all its branches,
Promnter—l will not quarrel about a Word, whether he was
the fuunder or origivator, or the successful promoter—of these
institutions by Which education is bestowed, and
which are calculate still further to bestow, the hied-
ciaeble benefits of education on the working classes of the
comtounity.—(Cheers. ) 1d knew, as we know, that these
working classes, whether they eu:tivate our fields, or work our
neinufactories, or drive our trade, are the very support and
life of the prosperity of England —( Renewed cheers)-_
that to their unrivalled skill, to their unwearied in •
dustry, to their unfailing—l speak of - the class at large
—to all ruses there are exceptions—to their nelailing and un-
deviating submission to the laws, in the performance of their
fluty, to themselves and the country, that we owe whatever of
reosperity this country has ever. reached (cs e
make
)
Ade! alas ! it is a hard reflection we must
that as they are the cause of its prosperity, if ever in evil times
adversity comes over her. by the hard necessity of
it follows
that nature,llwns
by ant lot ;el society which never can be otherwise,
that those evils must fall cm the working, classes, that on them
annat mainly end severely press the sufferings ringswli
the greatest which those na-
tural reverses 4.40
give rise to. Thencomesl
of all the praise w " these industrious and
.worthy
.and
able men can be e7esseito:ted—their that conduct, their
rya s; cheerful endurance
s • -
patience, their suarnise ,
makes as
of those distresses, almost • .
To rai forget their
se monument to
other prodigious merits.—(Cheers.)
wi fur
the memory of one who laboured so mug.
-hat
emcan"wdelid,oho
so well deserved their gratitude and ours, 1. te 'trophies
better than, instead of spending our money in vas.• the,
of marble and stone, which he himself would have be,
very first to despise, and the last to deem an appro-
itriate tribute—that we should .found some institution
:that may help to remove those obstacles that still
stand in the way of the better education of Our artisans ?
I say at once, as the Committee have, is my opinion,
most wisely, judiciously, and I might sty most happily sug-
gested, that they should found a Professorship of the application
of science to the arts. I believe it is known to most of those
who bear me, that one very great difficulty which is found to
stand in the way of Mechanics' Institutions in various parts of
the country, arises from the impossibility of obtaining lecturers.
( Hear.) It is inconceivable how small an amount of lecturing is
to be found all over the country, how numerous so ever 'those
institutions are.—(Hear, hear.) In communication with
that society, of which both my Noble Friend (Lord John
Wessell) and myself are members—l mean the Society for
the Diffusion of Useful Knowledge. In communication with
that Society you are aware there is formed another Central So-
ciety for the purpose of promoting the establishment and im-
provement of Mechanics' Institutions. Of that Society the
e lamented Dr. Birkbeck was the President. In corre-
teen:deuce with these are upwards of 200 of those valuable
belies, ,comprising 23,000 members, of whom, I rejoice to
think, upwards of two-thirds are of the working classes ex
clusivelyostrut this average number of lectures delivered to
them ~e 0 not above 1,200—1 think I,l93—making not
above , lectures, on an average, to each Institution
in the course of the year. Now, it has occurred to
my Noli!e Friend, who has well considered this subject,
that the benefits to be derived from lecturing would be greatly
increased if is were possible to establish such a Professorship
as the, Committee has wisely recommended ; and I hope and
trust that this day's meeting will not end witnout an earnest
being given in its success of the certain formation of such a
Professorship. This is an occasion on which I need hardly
remind you all political contention is out of the question—
(Cheers)—an occasion upon which the voice of party itself is
hushed, whereof 1 proceed to give you examples. Among
those benevolent individuals who have signified their
desire to aid you in our present design is my
Nettle Friend Lord John 'Russell.—(Loud and long-con-
tinued cheers.) I was going to say, of my Noble
Friend " whom to name is to praise," but you have anticipated
are. There are also Lord Dedley Stuart—(Cheers)---Mr.
Ilume—(Cheers)—who I am happy to know is returned in the
doable sense of the word—Mr. Roebuck—(Cheers)—than
whom I venture to say the working classes of this country
neither have nor ever had a steadier or abler friend. There
are other gentlemen all more or less varying in shades of poli-
tical party and opinions, but all agreeing heart and hand on
this occasion.—(Cheers.) I hare it in command from his
Royal Highness the Duke of Sussex to read to you his letter,
with which I think really I cannot do better than
occupy the few remaining minutes during which I am
about to address the present meeting.—(Cheers.) [The
Noble and Learned Lord then read the letter, in which his
Royal,' Highness stated his entire approval of the object for
whichlhe meeting was convened, and that lie was only pre-
vented attending by reason of the delicate state of his health ;
also his desire to contribute his mite towards giving effect to
the recommendation of the Committee. The reading of the
letter was followed by loud and protracted cheers.] Lord
Brougham proceeded to say—l have stated that no diffe-
rence of party ought to interfere, and I am now
about to sieve you that no slifferentre of political sentiment
has interfered on this occasion.—(Cheers.) I have here a
letter from the Secretary of State for the House Department,
connected as that department most appropriately is with those
things that relate to, the worltiw, classes of the kingdom.--
[The Noble and Learned Lord here read the letter. It was
to the effect, that he heartily concurred in the objects of the
meeting, and to further it lie would subscribe 10/.] 1 have also
had a similar request made to me, and which I have great pleasure
in communicating to the meeting, from my Noble Friend and late
colleague, the President of the Beard of Trade, who has a rim
appropriate connexion with thsl day's business.—( Cheers.;
Lord Ripon desires that his name should be put down kir ter.

guineas io this great work.—(Cheers.) The Lord Chiel
Justice of the Queen's Bench, Lord Denman:4 Great cheer-

ing)—has sent the same sum. —( Chters. ) The late Attor-
ney-General, Sir Thomas Wilde, has sent a sum of five

guineas, and the esent Attorney-General, Sir F. Pollock,
has sent a similar sum.—(Cheers.) To which I have
to add, but no doubt others will be added, that of
a former- Attorney - General ; the late Lord Chan-
Qellor of Ireland, Lord Campbell, has authorised me to
give the same sum ; arid Lord Lyndhurst—( Cheers )
desires me to put his name down for the same sum.—(Cheers. )
It remains only now for me, to express the great gratification I
have in finding men of all panics and shades of opinion joining
in furthering this great and (rood object. 1 have no manner of
diubt, under the blessing or Divine Providence, we shall sue-
cced—(Cheers)—in the object we all have in view, not merely
of recording our sentiments of the high merits and great prac-
tical good actually done during the course of so many years by
that most eminent and worthy individual, whose name brings
us together this day,- but to further the progress of
that work, by furthering the improvement of the working
6asses of the people.—( Great cheering.)
Captain• ACKERLEY, from the body of the meeting, called
out, Are you for-Universal Suffrage, Lord Broughem?"..._
(Cr.:fat confusion and uproar, amid which)--
Lord BROUGHAM rose, and after obtaining silence with some
difficulty, said—Sir, if you don't instantly cease I shall cause
you to be removed.—(Great cheering.)
The Secretary then read the following Report
" In laying before you the result of our deliberations, we
will abstain 7from discussing the various forms of testimonial
which have been submitted to us, confining ourselves to that
which we have finally, almost unanimously, agreed to recommend
as the best means of perpetuating the memory of Dr. Birkbeck's
services, and of marking the gratitude of his contemporaries for
those services.
"Bearing constantly in view this, the main object of our
labours, we resolved at our first meeting, that whatever testi-
monial should be determined on, ought to be of a permanent
character, and ought, if possible, to be connected with the ad-
vancement ent of knowledge among the people.
,6
In
acting on this resolution we felt, that whilst we were
nimble to devise mean; of affording direct advantage to the
subscribers, whom we he .e to find parts of the Kingdom,
so it was our duty to avoid any application to merely local Fur.
p of the proceed. of a generalcontribution.
These considerations, aiiioncr„ oth
mend that a fund should be eZlecte(elrbs'yhsauvbesicPiiption fur the
rofessqrship Maehiner • and Mann-
purpose of founding a
111c-tures in London, to be called the
to teach
;f.Professorship.-
It will be the duty of the Professor
these to a' t. the elements of
machinery, and the application of
machines,
the construction and operation of whieliPl:,,,.elilal7;oxnhibirt and
teach to the class. He will alto show the che-
mistry, and other branches of natural *gip b
si 3, to various
manufacturing processes; and he will exhibit those processes
by drawings and models, and by experiments.
" It would have [seen satiSfaefory to us, if we could have stn.-
gested some means whet-6y the fund which We hope to raise
should be devoted immediately to the inatruction of those
classes of the people, whose intellectual and moral improve.
meat Dr. Birkbeak has laboured to promote. But failing in
this endeavour, we believe that our plan will indirectly, and
not vary remotely, tend materially to advance the education of
the working classes. It wilt be the duty of the Professor him..
self to have constant intercourse with manufacturers and their
workmen ; an (observing thus the difficulties which the latter
have to surmount in learning the principles of the arts prac-
tised by them) he may be inclined, as he will certainly be most
Et; to suggest means for removing those difficulties. We would
indeed urge that the terms of the Professor's appointment
should direct his attention to this matter.

" It is probable also that during the intervals of the College
session, the Professor will find it his interest to lecture at In-
stitutions in the country, where he will contribute to introduce
a branch of teaching which has not perhaps hitherto sufficient:y
prevailed within them ; and we feel a strong hope that of the
students who will frequent the class which we propose to found,
many will afterwards devote themselves to popular instruction.
By these means we believe that the Birkheck Professorship
will, at no distant period, largely promote the instruction of
workmen, whether agricultural or manufacturing. A class of
teachers will we hope be sent forth, who will carry into the
various institutions of the country, the systematic instruction
which they have obtained from the proposed chair ; nor need
we doubt that, if the fee of the class is sufficiently low, school-
masters will frequent it in order to qualify themselves to impart
that knoWledge which, though it is of the most valuable that
the future workman can acquire, has nevertheless been hitherto
the most difficult to attain.
We think that the Chair which we recommend is most likely
to be efficient and permanent if attached to some existing and
largely endowed institution for education ; and we therefore
recommend that the Professorship shall be established in Uni-
versity College, Lontim. Although, according to the system
of the College, this class may be attended alone upon mere
payment of the fee, without involving any other expense, yet the
study which we desire to promote will (like all others) be best
pursued in a place where the sciences connected with it are
taught. The Chemical Laboratories in University College,
together with the large collections which it possesses of models
and apparatus, will greatly aid the labours of the Professor, and
diminish the cost of establishing and maintaining the Chair.
We have also reason to hope, that if means should he raised by
subscription for founding and endowing the Professorship,
those means may be augmented by a grant from the College
funds, or from some of the endowments at its disposal, and may
become a motive with friends of education to endow it more
largely or found Scholarships in connexion with it. In pro-
portion to the extent of the endowment will be the diminution
of the fee.
"‘ We have also strongly felt that there can be no fitter
place wherein to establish a Memorial of Dr. Birkbeck's services
to mankind, than University College--an Institution in the
foundation of which he bore a prominent part."
Mr. HUME, M.P. then rose to move the first resolution,
and was most enthusiastically received. He was not aware
why the first resolution had been put into his hand, unless it
was because he had been one of those who had earnestly re-
quested the Noble Chairman to deviate from the rule lie had
laid down of late years not to attend public meetings, but to
sanction an Institution for the benefit of those classes to whose
interest his whole life had been devoted.—(Cheers.) He con •
curred in every sentence of the excellent speech of the Noble
Lord in the Chair. The Resolution he had to propose was as
follows—

" It is the opinion of this meeting that upon the sound
education of the great body of the people mainly depend, under
Divine Proviticnce, the stability and happiness o f nations ; and
that Mechanics' Institutions have greatly contributed to that
education by the direct instruction and by the rational re-
creation which they afford to the working classes."
Such was the resolution he had to propose. He would not de-
tain the meeting at any length, bemuse he did not consider it
necessary to recommend such a p'an to their notice ; but then
he would say, that he never attended a public meeting at which
he felt greater satisfaction as to the result, than the present.--
(Cheers.) It was most gratifying to see men of all parties,
when party ran so high, coming forward in support of so great
and general an object,—an object confined to no class. Whatever
class of politicians were in power, nothing was of such im-
portance as to raise the condition of the working classes.
He was one of those who considered that it was as important
that a Government should provide for the education of the I
people, as that it should provide for their physical wants by the
erection of poor-houses. He had been ever anxious to for-
ward
that great object, and he deeply deplored that it had not
made greater progress. The working classes themselves were,
he was glad to see, now pushing forward to point out the
necessity of this object.—(Cheers.) He had known Dr.
Birkbeck for many years, not simply as the advocate of
Mechanics' Institutions, but as the friend of general
education, when it was a question even amo.ig many
well-meaning persons, if general education were a good
or not. He bad found Dr. Birkbeck, so long ago
as 1811 or 1812, the earnest promoter of every plan fur the
general education of the working classes. Dr. Birkbeek was
himself one of the working classes. He had earned all that he
possessed by his own labours, and yet, unlike too many profes-
sional men, who kept aloof from all participation in. any Inca-
cures of a public nature, lest it should affect their private
interest, Dr. Birkbeck was ever ready to come forward pub-
licly and privately, in the most zealous manner, to pro-
mste that object. The present occasion was one of the
utmost importance. They had lost Dr. Birkbeck, and
what could be more fitting than to make that loss
itself a means of continuing Dr. Birkbeck's labours, and ap-
pointing this Professorship. He thought that the Professorship
should be appointed to University College, because he was
aware of the labours of Dr. Birkbeck in founding University
College. No nsan ever exhibited more zeal and energy in the
pursuit of his own private interest, than Dr. Birkbeck had ex-
hibited in promoting the foundation of University College.
That institution was founded on the great principle of giving
education tor all, without any distinction of creed, tenet, pro-
fession, or country. He was aware that a difference of
opinion had existed on the subject of endowing this
t'rofessorship, among the members of the Committee
`s former meeting on this subject, but he trusted that
-sold be no difference of opinion as to the propriety
Ihrkbeck's labours by the foundation of a
"d,carry down the name of Dr. Birk-
-ould stimulate others to imitate
At it would be a waste of
nation of a Profes-
and if Dr.
4- con-

at the..
now there w,
of continuing Dr. _
Professorship, which woe
beck to ages yet to come, and s..
his exertions.—( Cheere. ) He thous.
money to erect a marble statue. The four..
snrshi? would be a monument far more lasting,
Birkbeck could give an opinion on the subject, he Le.
sinned, from what he knew of Dr. Birkbeck, that he woutu
say, " The promotion of the education of mankind has ever
been with me the primary object of my life, and nothing can
be more gratifying to me than that you should take
care to carry out that object.”—(Cheers.) lie thought that
by., doing this they should be doing an honour to the country.
—(Cheers.) He was aware that there were many persons
who objected to endowments of any sort. He objected to
many endowments, but he only objected to them when they
were abused ; .aod he trusted that in the appointment of this
Professor the Cummittee would take care to lay down such
rules as should prevent any abuse arising.--/ Cheers.) On
those grounds he cordially approvod of the object of the present
meeting, and was del.ghted to see the manner in which their
Noble and Learned Chairman was supported; and he was re-
joiced to see this the more, because it would go forth
to the world, that, however men might differ as
to other things, still when the education of the
working classes was concerned there was no difference
ofopinion, but that all parties were united in bearing testimony
to the labours of Dr. Birkbeck in the manner which would have
been most gratifying to Dr. Birkbeck himself, by continuing
his services to mankind.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. R. Tarr.oa was glad to be permitted to second the
motion. It had been his good fortune to be acquainted with
Dr. Birkbeck, and to have co-operated with him and the Noble
Lord in the foundation of University College. He had also
witnessed the great zeal and uniting energy with which Dr.
Birkbeck had laboured in founding the London Mecha-
nics' Institution, and in supporting and promoting its interests.
None but those who had witnessed his labours could be aware
of his unceasing exertions in behalf of that Institution. He
superintended all the financial operations of the. Institution.
If any difference arose, his interference was always the means
of restoring harmony. If lectures wore wanted, Dr. Birkbeck
was always ready. He devoted the greater part of the leisure of
his very laborious life in promoting the welfare of that Institution.
It was not only to the Louden Mechanics' Institution, but to
the cause of the education of the people generally, that the
talents and the labours of Dr. Birkbeck were ever devoted.
His Lordship, and many of the gentlemen present, knew how
actively his services wore rendered to the University College.
He might also advert to the assistance which Dr. Birkbeck
rendered to that school of which his Lordship laid the
first stone in the City of London, and which now num-
bered between 400 and 500 pupils. They could not
express their regard for the memory of such a man in a way
more honourable to him and more likely to be of permanent
service to the cause to which he devoted his life, than by
erecting such a Professorship as that mentioned in the resole- i
than. 'There had certainly been abuies in endowments ; but
still endowments were part of the capital of the country.
Many of the abuses alluded to had also, it should be remem-
bered, been removed of late years ; and many valuable
institutions which had become almost utterly useless to the
public, at large, had been resuscitated. He trusted from the
countenance which the proposal of a fitting memorial to the
memory of Dr. Birkbeck had that day received, that the pro-
ject would he speedily accelerated. The Hon. Gentleman con-
cluded by seconding the resolution.
Mr. ifoncsKtsr said, that he felt he owed some apology
to the meeting, and to his Lordship, for trespassing on tli.sir
attention. He would not detain them long, and ho would
confine himself strictly to the purposes for which they had as•
sembled. Lest he should be mistaken at the outset, he begged
leave to say, that, however intense might be the admiration of
the gentlemen around him for the memory of Dr. Birkbeck,
their admiration did not surpass his. —( Hear, hear.) /t was
because he was desirous of imprinting his admiration
on the spirit of all time, that he rose on that occasion to make
a suggestion radio: adverse to the report which they had heard,
although not adverse to the resolution which had been moved.
lie. was decidedly adverse to the endowment of a' Professorship,
and still more decidedly adverse to the connexion
of that Professorship with the Landon University
College. As he understood it, the Professorship
was intended to promote knowledge among the humbler
classes. Now it was pretty evident that to a college which was
frequented exclusively by the wealthy and middle. classes, th e
labouring classes would never resort for instruction. As far as'
he could judge of such Professorships they had contributed very
little to the honour of those whose names they bole;
and some of these were very little known beyond the
walls of the seminary in which they were endowed.
If they were, therefore, to establish such a Professorship as
that proposed, it would completely fail, he thought, to honour,
or even to commemorate the memory of Dr, Birkbeck. Ho
might mention, as an example in point, the case of a Profes-
sorship iu the University of Oxford, endowed by Mr. Viner ;
but he believed that the Vinerian Professorship would
be almost wholly unknown to the es. orld at large
if Blackstone had never written his Commentaries. -If
the Professor were a clever one, the Professorship would
be only known in connexion with his name ; and it he were
an indolent or an incapable man, the foundation could neither
confer honour nor utility of any kind. But if there were good
reasons for not establishing a Professorship at all, there were
besides, in his opinion, very solid and substantial reasons why
such a Professorship, even if established, should not be con-
nected with the London University College. He believed that
the proceedings of that College were very little known beyond
its walls. That College had been established seventeen years
ago, and he wanted to know what great man it had produced,
or what great discovery it had led to either in science or in lite-
rature ? He would even say that, in his opinion, no event had
given so great a blow to the liberal aspirations of the age as the
complete failure of that College.—(Dissent and interruption.)
He knew nothing great or good to which it had contributed,
and knew of no greater abortion in modern times,
save and except the Reform Bill.—(Marks of dissent. )
But there was also a strong personal reason against founding a
Professorship in connection with the London University; for
although Dr. Birkbeck had contributed liberally to that insti-
tution, about the year MO he withdrew from it, and he never
afterwards took part in the management.—(Cries of "No,
no I") About th,s period, or a little subsequent to it, Dr.
Birkbeck expressed to him the very strongest opinion against
the University. Upon these grounds he must dissent from
the Proposal of the Committee to establish a Professorship in
connection with the London University. The respected Chair-
man had referred to the project of erecting a statue to the
memory of Dr.
not have addressed that meeting had it not been that there
were other alternatives by which they might attain the
object ; and he thought the plan- of erecting a
statue or tablet in St. Paul's preferable to that
which had been suggested by the Committee. here was,
hnwever,another plan to which neither the Noble Chairman nor
the Committee had alluded, but which he thought far preferable
to any that had been suggested; namely, to establish itinerant
oitlydotfliem,
professorships under the control of a body in whom the funds
should be vested for that purpose. —(Cheers. ) Lord Brougham
Ia
and told them very truly, that there was a great
paucity t
lecturers for the Mechanics' Institutions scattered
through the country. Now, surely the best means of removing
that evil was to establish one or more itinerant professors, who
should live lectures to the Mechanics' Institutions in general,
under the direction of a Committee appointed to superintend
their 'about s. —( Hear, hear, and cheers.) This plan he would

prefer even to the erecting a statue in St. Paul's, though to erect
a statue in that great national temple was, in his opinion, prefer-
able, because more likely to honour his virtues, to the endowing a
Professorship in the London Univet city. It was to propose this
plan that he had risen to address the meeting. What he would
suggest was, that they should refer the matter back to the
Committee, with instructions to ascertain the probable expense
of erecting a statue to the memory of Dr. Birkbeck in St.
Paul's Cathedral, and also what would be the cost of establishing
itinerant professorships; and, having ascertained this, the Com-
mittee should report again to a 'allelic meeting.
Tile CHAT ASIAN said, before he put the resolution, he hoped
Mr. Hodgskin would have the-candour to listen to one or two
words, in reference to his proposal. There need be no differ-
ence of opinion among them upon this matter. If any persons
proposed a statue to a professorship, let them subscribe for a
statue.—(Laughter.) If any person preferred a pro-
fessorship to a statue, let them subscribe for a professorship.
The one did not at all exclude the other. Judging, however,
by those whom he had heard speak on the subject, and by those
who had tendered their subscriptions, he interred that there
would be a very small subscription for the marble, whilst there
would be—he would not say a very large—but a considerable
and competent one for the Professorship. The only question,
then, was, as to the two kinds of professorships. He quite
agreed with Mr. Hodgskin, that if they had funds sufficient for
the purpose, itinerant professorships would be beyond all com-
parison better than any one ventral professorship. But the
fact was, the Committee, before they made their report, had
taken both proposals into their serious consideration; and it
appeared from their calculation, that if one itinerant profes-
sorship was established, taking whole number of Mechanics'
Institutions that would require his aid, it would amount to one
course of lectures for each institution every sixth yearae-
( Laughter.) Undoubtedly, if they could afford forty ur fifty
itinerant professorships, that would be forty or fifty times
better than establishing a Professorship at the University Col.
lege.—( Hear.) He was afraid, however, that there was no
hope that such would be the case. It appeared to him, there-
fore, that they could afford the Profeasorship, whilst they could
not afford the itinerancy. Now with regard to the London
University, as the head of that body—
Here his Lordship was interrupted by a person who at-
tempted to address the meeting, and complained that the
Chairman was out of order in doing so. After several ineffec-
tual attempts to address the meeting, he at last succeeded,
through the interpositiort of the Chairman, in obtaining a
bearing, when he said, that his name was Watkins, and that
his only object then was to inquire of the Chairman whether
the resolution which was about to be put, was a resolution
proposing a Professorship at the London University?
The CHAIRMAN said, that there was no allusion whatever of
the kind.
Mr. HODGSKIN then proposed an amendment to the effect,
that the lleport be referred back to the Committee, with in-
structions to state what would be the expense of erecting, a
statue in St. Paul's, and also what would be the expense, of es-
tablishing itinerant professorships.
On the resolution and amendment being put from the Chair,
the former was carried.
Lord J. RUSSELL then rose and said, after the eloquent ob-
servations that were made to you by the Chairman at the com-
mencement of this meeting, and after what you have heard
from Mr. Hume and Ale. Taylor, in proposing and seconding
the first resolution. I need not detain you longer than a very
few minutes. You will all agree, and I am happy to see that
the gentlenrin who moved' the amendment emphatically agrees,
in bearing testimony to the merit of Dr. Birkbeek. The
resolution which I have to move is, simply to record the sense
which this meeting entertains of those merits. It refers to the
class which he instituted for mechanics at Glasgow as long ago
as the year 1800. Before that time no doubt there were men
of great mechanical skill, some of mechanical genius, among
the working classes ; but they had every difficulty to contend
with if they endeavoured to make that skill and that genius
available by the addition of acquired knowledge.—( Hear, hear.)
It was the merit of Dr. Birkbeck that in. Glasgow, he insti-
tuted a class by which that science and that knowledge might
be attained. Many years afterwards, when in London, he
contributed, by his attention, by his labours, and munificently
by his means, to the foundation of the Mechanics' Institute in
this metropolis. Others have sought, in the mode of disposing
of their fortune, either enjoyments for themselves, or the
means of raising that which should be a benefit in
future to their family. Dr. Birkbeck was one of those who
wished that the fortune which he had honourably acquired
should be the means of benefiting his fellow-men at all future
limes. And now, Gentlemen, agreeing as I have no doubt
you do, in recerdmg your sense of the-Merits of Dr. Birkbeck,
I wilt say but one word or two as to the nature of the monu-
ment you should raise to his memory. It appears to me that
to the extent of your funds, you should endeavour to
make that monument useful to mankind. There are
those who, honourably to themselves, and gloriously
to the country to which they belong, obtain by their military
and naval services distinction at the moment, and fame fur
ever. It is most useful to a country that there should be such
men—it is useful that there should be these rewards and dis-.
tinctions, and that they should receive the fame of marbles and
monuments, and all the honours that attend on their merits,
But merits of the kind possessed by Dr. Birkbeck are not re-
warded by immediate fame; they are unobtrusive in their ope-
ration, but they tend to the improvement of mankind in all ages;
they tend to the promotion of peace and the diffusion of know-
ledge and to Diving men a better knowledge of their duties, both
to those immediately surrounding them, their Cello wecount ry men,
and to living in peace and brotherhood with foreign nations.
'l'o such men we can raise no monument so fitting as that which
shall be continually, perpetually, and uninterruptedly useful
to mankind. 1 ask you, therefore, to agree to the resolution
for founding a Professorship in University College. I call on
you to agree to that which is fitting to the character of bins wo
are about to honour; and I trust that, as his exertiuns
have tended to the general benefit of his countrymen,
the subscription will be as widely diffused as possible, and that
the knowledge of what has passed here to-day will incite other
of similar benevolence, of less confidence perhaps, of
men to achieve similar services, but still that
being men to believe that honours and rewards will
beven not onl
to those more captivating and exciting ser-
viaciee able
e
it incite s`'". men
which havepla toos ni
perhaps, though not undeservedly,
g
but that they will be given also
to those who have been engaged le the work of peace and bene-
vlimprovement gild nnivereal charity, that
thesegained the applause of
handed down to fu'ure ages, and
obtain their reward in the gratitude and veneration of mankind.
°enee'
men of
Rill universallikewise
b e
Mr. BASIL MONTAGUE mowed the next resolution, that—
" This meeting desire to record their deep sense of the emi-
nent services which Dr. Birkbeck !tits rendered to the educa-
tion of the people by founding in 1800, anel by teaching a class
for mechanics at eitasseet, by his munificent aid in founding
and his constaet care in superintending the London Mechanics'
Institution, and by his assistance its foerolno similar bodies
throughout the kingdom."
He stated that the late Dr. Birkbeck originally belonged to
the Society of Friends ; he eulogised the system of education
prevailing among that respected body. and after passing a
high eulogium on the personal ssharacter of Dr. Birkbeck,
referred to the importance and super,s of his labours.
All that was required of them was the grateful cgpression of
their respect for the memory of the man who had heeefited
mankind by the establishment of Mechanics' Institutions.
A person in the lower part of the room, whose name we
understood to be Wereiss, said, amid considerable noise and
confusion, that the resolution might to be placed in the hands
of a person who had shown practical devotion to the opinions of
Dr. Birkbeck.—( Cries of " Turn him out," and dutch uproar.)
The CHA r lot Atir said he did not think the gentleman was out
of order in speaking to the resolution. Bat he would put it to
his good sense and feeling whether they ought not to avoid all
unnecessary allusion to political matters. Let them reserve
them for another occasion.
Some further interruption then took place, but after a few
words from the Noble Chairman order was restored, and the
resolution was put and carried unanimously.
Lord DUDLEY STUART said that when he heard the pre-
sent meeting was to be held, he did not for a moment hesitate
on determining to attend it, because he was and must
ever be most anxious to do everything that was
in his power. little though that might be, to testify his
veneration for the memory of the late Dr. Birkbeek, He
( Lord S.) had had the honour of being well acquainted with
that deeply-lamented gentleman, and had" been a great admirer
f his virtues, both public and private. He honoured the man'
who had passed his whole life in devoting himself to the ser-
vice, not only of his country, but also of mankind in general.
Dr. Birkbeck had been mentioned to them to-day in eloquent
terms, as the friend of all mankind, and particularly of the
working classes. It was to their advantage ho had especially
devoted all the energies and powers (ibis brilliant understanding.
Dr. Birkbeck might indeed be sail to be an ornament not only
to his country, but the world and age in which he lived.
Others had celebrated his praises, and the present meeting
was a proud testimony to his merits, and the proof of the ve-
neration in which his memory was held by his countrymen.—
(Cheers.) It needed not, therefore, the feeble words of one
Lice himself to pronounce a panegyric upon him.—(Cheers.)
All knew his general character well. They had all witnessed
his general philanthrophy and his important labours.—(Loud
cheering.) There was one proof which Dr. Birkbeck
gave; of his labours in an eminent degree, to
whic he would advert. It was a subject that
first gave him the opportunity of becoming acquainted
with Dr. Birkbeck, and which bound him to him afterwards,
_ _

during the whole of his life, in ties of the greatest friendship.
Dr. Birkbeck was the friend of all mankind; of the working
classes, he was the most enthusiastic friend ; and he was the
friend to the cause of Poland—(Cheers)—which with all his
intelligence he never would have been had he considered that
cause the cuse of the aristocracy, and not the working classes.
--(Cheers.) The resolution which had been put into his
hand went to the principle and adoption of the Report of the
Committee. That subject he might be excused from arguing

now, as it had been discussed a short time ago. The Noble

Lord concluded by moving the following resolution :
" This meeting approve and adopt the Report of the Com-
mittee appointed on the 3d of August last ; and are of opinion
that. the most fitting method of testifying the public gratitude
to Dr. Birkbeck is by founding, in University College, London,
a Professorship of Machinery and Manufactures, including the
ap?lication of Chemistry and other branches of Nature 'Phi-
losophy to the Arts, and that a subscription be commenced for
this purpose."
Mr. DILLON seconded the resolution.. He agreed with the
remarks made by the Noble and Learned Chairman on the
subject of the plan recommended by the Committee to this
meeting. hi the present instance, if they could not do all
they would; they must do all they could.—(Cheers.) The
monument about to be erected to Dr. Birkbeck ap-
peared to him to be peculiarly appropriate ; or, if
they would seek another monument to Dr. Birkbeck,
he would ask them to look around.—( Cheers.) He would ask
them to look at the Chairman, and those by whom he was sur-
rounded, and at that great meeting—( Cheers)—brought to-
gether, as It was, to do justice to a man for endeavouring to
promote the cause of education, and the welfare of the wot king-
i classes of society.—(Cheers.) To such a man, a more appro-
priate monument could not be raised than that proposed by the
Committee. They were not able to do all they might wish for
the benefit of their fellew-countrymen, they could not prevent
poverty, and distress, and privation, but they might much mi-
tigate it by diffusing knowledge.—(Chee:s. ) The best mode
of promoting the greatest happiness to the greatest number,
was to promote knowledge. When they had established the
Professorship in question, he trusted that every Professor would
endeavour tb exceed Dr. Birkbeck in his usefulness. —( Cheers. )
Mr. Focco, who spoke from the body of the hall, and who
was at times inaudible, said that the Noble Lord in the chair

had not been made aware of the proceedings of a meeting which
had previouily been held on this subject, with which he ought
to have been made acquainted. At that public meeting, which
had been held on the 3d of August, at the London Mechanics'
Institution, the subject of founding the Professorship had
been debated, and he was sorry that the Committee had not
. . _ _

called those before them who on that occasion had differed from

them in opinion. On that occasion the propriety of founding
a lectureship on moral duties was suggested, and he felt con-
vinced that that would be a preferable plan. Dr.
Birkbeck, in allusion to a Professorship of Machinery, told
him that he did not know any one capable of filling such a
Professorship ; but in founding a lectureship on moral duties he
thought they would have better success. A working man ex-
hausted by his day's toil would not go to listen to lectures on
machinery, but the working man would go to listen to a course
of lectures on moral duties as a recreation. He hoped the
Committee would allow of some modification of their proposi-
tion. He disapproved of endowments altogether. He would
remind them that the great object they had in view was the
improvement of the minds of the people , and if they worked
well for 10 or 15 years, they would then be able to get a lecture
very well of theo.selves without the assistance of professors.
For his part he wished that some means could be devised for ex-
tending the benefits of the establishment, whatever it might be,
and which they should endow throughout the country at large.

A Youata MAN in the body of the meeting said that he
trusted he should be pardoned if he trespassed for a moment
on their indulgence. He seas himself one who had bene-
fited .hy these Mechanics' Institutions, to the establishment
of which Dr. Birkbeck had nisinly contributed. It appeared
to him that the establishment of a Professorship in the Univer-
sity College would not be the be=t; means of perpetuating the
memory of Dr. Birkbeck among the morking classes. And it
should be recollected that that was the object which the meet-
ing had principally in view. In his opinion the establish-
ment of itinerant lectureships, as had been suggested by
a gentleman who had preceded him, would much more
effectually contribute to the purpose. He believed that lectures
at the London University would not be attended by the working
men generally of the Metropolis, and to 'the working men of
other towns they would be wholly useless. He would there-
fore propose as an amendment to the resolution—" That in
the opinion of this Meeting, the best way to perpetuate the
memory of Dr. Birkbeck among the working classes would be
the establishment of itinerant lectureships." •
Lord BaoncifAst hoped he might be permitted, before
putting the question. to explain to the two gentlemen who
had just spoken, that -it was a great mistake to suppose that
the appointment of a Professorship in the London Univer-
sity, implied that it was to be an endowment paid by a salary,
without depending at all on class fees, so as to enable the Pio- '
fessor to go to sleep in his chair, and receive hit salary
without doing his business; they should then be founding an
abuse instead of a professorship. There would be fees,
very moderate, so as to enable the working classes
to attend, and to enable the lectures to be better worth his at-
tendance, for that which was got for nothing, was often nothing
worth, and very little valued or psofited by, by those who re-
eeived it. A reasonable amount of salary would be attached
to the Chair, but it would not be independent of his own exer-
tions. As to the observation respecting an itinerant lecture-
ship, he was far from supposing anything in the appoint-
ment of the Professor that would preclude his visiting the chief
workshops of industry, Birmingham, Leeds, and Manchester.
It would be impossible to visit all the Mechanics' Institutions of
the country, and as they became more numerous, it would be-
come still more impossible. His Lordship then read the
amendment, proposing the foundation of an itinerant Lec-
tureship.
Mr. TRACEY asked if the original resolution was capable of
all the modifications his Lordship had alluded to?
Lord BROUGHAM had no hesitation in saying, that in his
opinion the foundation of such a Professorship in connection
with the London University was perfectly compatible with, and
might lead to, an itinerant lectureship to the extent described.
He would go a little further, an.l pledge himself that it should
be so done. He pledged himself as connnected with the Com-
mittee, with the subscription, and University, that if the means
would afFord it lectures should be so given from time to time.
Mr. TRACEY—Let the amendment be embodied in the re-
solution.

The CHA IRMA is part of the Report, and the report has
been adopted.• The Noble and Learned Lord then read from
the Report the following extract :
" It will be the duty of the Professor himself to have con-
stant intercourse with manufacturers and their workmen ; and
(observing thus the difficulties which the latter have to sur-
mount in learning the principles of the arts practised by them)
he may be inclined, as he will certainly be most fit, to suggPst
means for removing those difEculties. We would indeed urge
that the terms of the Professor's appointment should direct his
attention to this matter.
"It is propable also that during the intervals of the College
Session, the Pt ofessor will Red it his interest to lecture at Insti-
tutions in the country, where he will contribute to introduce a
branch of teaching which has not perhaps hithi rto sufficiently
prevailed wiihin them ; and we feel a strong hope that of the
students who will frequent the class which we propose to found,
many will after yards devote themselves to popular instruction."
The CITAIRMAN observed that he thought it batter to add
the amendment to the resolution. It was to the effect, " That
during the interval of the Session he be required to lecture in
the country."
The resolution, as amended, having been put and carried,

.
Mr. COATES, the Secretary, read letters from Lord Lans.
downe and o.hers ; also a list of subscribers on the present oc-
casion. Among the names were those of—The Noble and
Learned Chairman, Lord Brougham, 50 guineas ; Lord Lans.
downe, 504 ; Lord Campbell, 10/. ; Lord J. Russell, 10/. ; Mr.
Ewart, 51., &e.

Mr. AIoNCKTON Aft LNES, ALP., said he had been called upon
to a-ldress the meeting without premeditation, and certainly
would not have done so had he not felt a wish, as a
pro'essed Conservative Member of Parliament, to came
there to sympathise pith them.—(Cheers.) He was anxious
to show that the subject of the meeting was common ground,
on which men of all opinions might meet together ; that when
the education of the working classes was concerned, the stickler
for the old constitution, and the man who was most anxious for
an entirely new one, were united. He would merely refer to
the address of Sir Robert Peel on the openingof the Tamworth
Institute as a proof of what he said.—(Cheers.) There was
no partisanship in the diffasion'of knowledge.—(Cheers.) All
could join in the good work. Although it was a mournful
occasion, yet he trusted that it would not be without
its advantages. He was not called upon to interfere
in any discussion that had been raised as to the propriety of
disposing of the funds that would be collected, but he hoped
that every gentleman would believe that the Committee, in the
determination they had come to, with perfect honesty and good
will, had the wirl to carry out what they believed would
have been the wishes of Dr. Birkbeck.—(Cheers. ) He was
certain that if the Committee had believed that, if any of the
other excellent propositions which had been submitted to the
Meeting, had been more feasible than the one they had pro-
posed, they would have had no hesitation in adopting it.—
( Cheers.) The Hoe. Gentleman concluded by proposing the
following resolution

"Tha—t the thanks of the Meeting be presented to the Cern-
mitlee and to the Secretary for their labours hitherto; that
they be requested to continue their exertions for the attainment
of the proposed object, and that they have leave to add to their
numbers, and appoint trustees."
Mr. Roeuuc lc, who was received with loud cheering, rose to
second the motion of his Hon. Friend. It was needless at that
time for him to enlarge upon the benefits likely to accrue from
the proposal which had bean made that day ; still more need-
less was it for him to add his humble tribute of applause to the
exertions of that great man whose memory there was
no man but must honour.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") In
I.im they had suffered a great loss, and they were seeking),
to alleviate that lass by the adoption of that measure which
they conceived would have been most. gratifying to that great
man, had he yet lived.—(Cheers.) They had adopted the
recommendation of the Committee, and, in doing so, they had
done that which with Dr. Birkbeck had been the object of his
whole life—they had contributed to the diffusion of knowledge
through the country.—(Cheers.) He would not live in mar-
ble or monumen al brass, but he would live in the circulation
qf knowledge—and he could not die while knowledge remained.
ft had been said that the Professor they were about to endow
would swallow up the memory of him they desired to comme-
morate, Not so.—(Uheers.) No man would return from
hearing those lectures, but he would call to mind who it was
who had first put in motion that engine, in the benefits derived
from which he had just partiemated.—(Cheers.) They were
shoutto erect a living monument .to him—(Cheers)—they
were a4eat to make it perpetual, continuous, ever active, and,
kr .
plan e
Bi m hP!loecent. The Committee had adopted a
theit would commemorate the memory of
manner that would have been most pleas-
at the same time confer great benefit on
p l hwirhksieeb,f, lhv
inck
whileer
minagntioinhdim, saenlfd excite
ct
te others to follow his noble example.—
(Cheers. ) In erecting a monument to the memory of such a
man, it was not so desirable to erect a marble tomb that might
be beantifd to look at, as to endeavour to promote the good of
mankind, as
he had dune, and to incite others to the adoption
of a similar
virtuous POndget. For these reasons he
approved ofin
thele of
decision of the Committee, and he cordially
seconded the resolution of his Hon Friend.
The Noble Chairman here left the meeting, amidst the most
enthuaiastie demonstrationsef applause.
Lord J, Itua it, haying then taken the chair,
Mr. HILL, Qncen'g, Cminsalinr, moved the thanks of the
meeting to the Noble and Learned Lord who had presided over
their proceedings on that day. He believed thorn was no one
to whose countenance and assistance Dr. Birkbeek was so

munh indebted in the labours of his life as to the Noble
and Learned LAM, The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then
moved the resolution, 46 follhws That the thanks of the
meeting be given to Lord Brougham for bit 4ttendfince this
day, and for the great services which he had rendered towards
the education of the peop:e."
Mr, E. BAnses second the resolution.
The resolutions were then put and unanimously carried.
The SEcaET.tay, after informing the meeting that the
public wou!d be raado acquainted, by advertisement, with the
places where subscriptions might be paid, real a further list
of contributions which he had received during the day.
The meeting then separated.

THE ROE H AIVIPTON
MURDER.

BOW-STREET.-(YESTERDAY.)
FINAL EXAMINATION OF MOLLY GOOD AND
RICHARD GAMBLE.

(Continued cum our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)

John Good examined—l live at No. 4, Orchard•row, Creek,
Deptford, and am a blacksmith. I know Daniel Good. I
saw him on Saturday at Newgate. I know the female prisoner
at the bar. Good and she Caine to my house about seven
o'clock in the evening of the 7th of April. He told me that
he was a relation of mine, and bad seen me twenty-two years
ago, and though he did not know me, he had heard of me. I

du not recollect that I ever saw him before. He told me in her
presence that he had come from Holland, where he had been

with some horses for some gentlemen, had been shipwrecked,
and had lost all his things, except the clothes he then wore.
They both remained at my house that night, and went away
together the next morning, after breakfast. I saw Daniel
Good next on Saturday, about twelve o'clock, when he came
alone, and remained there all the afternoon and during the
night. At nine o'clock on Sunday morning he went away.
I heard the murder publicly proclaimed in the street on Satur-
day, the 9th, when he and I and my mistress went to market.
Cross-examined—Good stopped with me all the night, after
I heard the murder proclaimed in the street. I supped with
him. When, he said he knew me, and was a relation, he
did not mention any part of Ireland. I knew the woman be-
fore. I never recollect to have seen him and the woman to-
gether before.
Hannah Good-1 am the wife of the last witness. I know

the female prisoner r;t-lea;;; [ only saw her once, and that
was when she came to my place with Daniel Good on the 7th
of April. I saw Good at Newgate on Saturday last. They
called on me on the 7th ; remained there all night, and break-
fasted with us next morning. When they went away, I went
with them to the railway station at Deptford ; she went by the
train to London, and he returned with me to my own house,
where he stayed till the evening of that day, He did not stay
at home all day ; he went in and out. He bought some
clothes on that day about eleven o'clock. He showed them to
me. They consisted of a jacket and trousers of fustian, a
black cloth waistcoat, and a pair of stockings. He changed his
clothes there, and put these on. • In the evening he left our
house, and I walked part of the way with him on the road to
London. We had two pints of beer together on the way. On
Saturday he returned in the fustian dress, and a hod with him.
By Mr. Hann—The female prisoner was not present when
Good bought the clothes and changed them.
Cross-examined—At nine o'clock on ilunday mornino. he'
left my house and took his things away with him, and I have
not seen him since till last Saturday.
Cress-examined—I heard that one Daniel Good was wanted
fir a murder, but I never imagined that he was the man. On
Saturday, in the afternoon, I heard of a murder, and in the
evening I heard men calling it about the streets ; Good was
with me at the time, carrying my basket. Good returned with
me, and we supped together. We did not say one word about
the murder on that night, in conversation. Mary Good left
my house about ten o'clock on Friday morning.
He-examined—When we were in the streets, and heard
the proclamation, I said it was curious than this name shoeld be
Daniel Good. Good smiled, and said, " Yes, it was strange,
but there were plenty of that name."
John Neil, jun.—l am the son of John and Catherine Neil,
and live at Greenbank, Tooley-street. I know Daniel Good,
and I saw him on Saturday at Neavgate. He was at my father's
house on Friday evening, the Bth of April, and I saw him
there. I went with him somewhere. He went into an alley,
and told me to knock at a door and tell Molly Good that he
wanted her. I afterwards saw the female prisoner. I knocked
at the door and asked for Mrs. Good. Good had before told
me if a stranger came to the door, not to tell her that he was

there, but to ask for some oranges. The woman who opened
the door called Mrs. Good, and she came out; the woman at
the bar is the same person. I told her that her husband wanted
.her ; she then ei,ached me on the wrist.
By Mr.. HALL —Tlth woman who opened the door was be-
hind us when I told her this.
Cross-examined—She then asked me where he was. I
pointed out to her where he was. She went to him and hit
him on the back, but did not speak to him. He ran away and
she went back to the house. He went to another street
and I f .]lowed him. He then told me to go to her
again, and say that I wanted her. I went, but there
was a crowd round the door, and I did not tell her what he
said. He called at the house again in the evening.
By Mr. was dark when I went to Molly Go)d's
house.

Police-sergeant Thornton examiner--I watae.l the house
where Molly Good lived ; it was is Flower and Dean-street.
The prisoner Gamble lived at No. 2, Tindal-buildings,
Gray's Inn-lane. 1 saw Gamble go into Molly Good's
lodgings on Tuesday, the 12th of this month, about
twelve o'clock in the day ; he remained there about
an hour. I saw him leave the house, and saw
Mary Good follow shortly after. She was in com-
pany with another female. I followed them; they soon
after joined Gamble in Bishopegate-street ; they turned down
Liverpool-street, aed I traced them together till the evening f
that day. I site the two prisoners return to Mary Good's
lodgings about 7 o'clock in the evening. I saw Gamble
leave between 9 and 10; he had a bundle with him then
tied up in a handkerchief. He had no bundle with him
when he went into the house. He carried the
bundle to Tindal-buildings. On Thursday the 14th I saw him
leave Tindal-buildings, and followed him to Mary Good's. I
saw him leave her house shortly after 11, however, on the same
night. Previous to that I saw the two prisoners leave the
George and Guy in Brickelane together. On Saturday the
16th 1 searched Gamble's lodgings. Inspector Pearce accom-
panied me in the search. He lodged in the second floor front
room. The prisoner was not present when we began the
search. There were four beds in the room, and on the floor
under the bed pointed out by the landlady as being his, I
found the three gowns now produced. Gamble afterwards
came its; he was asked which bed he slept in, and he pointed
to the one under which we had found the gowns. He was I
asked if he had any property, and he said, " None." Mr.
Pearce has a box with some shirts and things which he found
at the lodgings.
Mr. Hate—When he said he had no property, what was
the question which you pat to him ?
Witness. —lt was whether he had any property about the
bed, and he said " None." Mr. Pearce then produced the
gowns, and he said they had been given him by a friend.
Examination continued—On the next day 1 searched Mary
Good's lodgings, and Mud these pieces of silk (blue and black),
and thispillow-case, wrapped upend laid on the sacking between
two beds. I also found a black bag under the bolster, con-
taining a purse and a pair of mits. These was 3s. 10d. in the
purse. I also found three table napkins, a pair of stockings,
a tabl ...cloth, two knives and forks, a pair of candlesticks, a
decanter, and some china.
By Mr. fleet —There were no other persons sleeping in
this room beside Illary Good. I cannot tell whether Gamble
has been in the habit of sleeping and cohabiting with Mary Good.
Witness —I should add that there was another person slept
in the sane bed with Gamble.
Gamble—l ti:ink, Sir, there wi Ibe plenty of evidence that I
have not cohabited with this woman.
Mr. HALL—You will have an opportunity of making your
statement by-and-bye ; if you have any questions to put you
can do so.
Gamble—No, Sir, I have no questions.
Mrs. Jane Clarke, who was examined at the time when
Good was brought up here, and who resides at No. 18,
South-street, Manchester-square, on her oath stated that
she believed the three gowns, which the last witness
found at Gamble's lodgings, to have been the property
of the deceased. The deceased used to speak to me
of Good as her husband. This piece of blue silk I identify as
being part of that with which the bonnet in which the deceased
was last seen was covered.
Cross-examined—l cannot tell whether the deceased and
Good were married. I was not very much in the deceased's con-
fidence. I never saw her with a ring on during the three years
that I knew her. That struck me as being rather singular.
I thought it appeared as if she were a kept woman rather than
a wife ,but she always behaved herself very properly.
By Mr. HALL-1 do cot recollect seeing Molly Good and the
deceased together about the time the blue bonnet was made.
Nicholas Pearce examined—l ant an Inspector of the A
division on the evening of Saturday, the 16th of April, I
went to Gamble's lodgings, situate, '2, Tindal-buildings, Gray's
Inn lane. I knew Gamble before, and had seen tne female
prisoner before on two or three occasions. 1 first saw Gamble
en Monday the 11th, coming out of the lodgings of the
female prisoner about ive o'clock in the evening. I followed
him to Aldgate, and on to Green-bank, Toolcy-street, and
then to Tindal-buildings, On the next day 1 saw the two
prisoners together in Bishopsgate-street, and near the Catholic
chapel in eloorfields, and on the same day in Flower and
Dean-street, near the George and Guy public-house, walking.
I was at the female prisoner's lodgings about one o'clock its the
morning of the 14th. I heard a female voice say to Molly,
" Who don't he corns forward ? there's 1501. reward
for him, he is sure to be taken." The voice went
on to say—" Why don't he put a rope round his
neck, and put a stone to it, and not disgrace his country ?"
The female prisoner replied, " He has more pluck than that.
Dan is the darling of my heart; she was a stinking whore and
a stinking bitch." On the Ifith 1 went to Gamble's lodgings,
soon after nine o'clock in the evening. I saw Gamble in
Gray's Inn-lane, and asked him his name. lie said, " What's
the odds to you?" I told him to come into the square, and I
would speak to him, and that I was an officer. I asked him if
he knew Daniel Good, the man charged with murder? He
said he did, but he had not seen him, (I think he said) for
eight or nine years.
Prisoner—Fourteen, Sir.
Examination continued—l asked him if lie knew Good's
wife, and he said lie did. I asked where she resided, and he
said, Flower and Dean-street. To the best of my belief he
mentioned the number. .1 asked if lie had seen her lately, he
said, " Once, and that was last week." I asked where he lived,
and he said, 2, Tindars-buildings. I searched him and
found •two keys' in one pocket, and a severely and • a half
in his watch-pocket. I asked hire if he hid received
a parcel or anything from Good's wife lately, and he said
he had not. 'ibis was just before I searched bins. I
then left him in charge of another constable, and went to No.
2, Tindal's-building., where I w.:s informed that he did live
there. I returned to Gamble, and took him back with me;
he showed me a box on the ground-floor, which he said was
his. 1 gave him the light, and we went up stairs to the second
floor front room, where there were three or four beds. I asked
him which was. his, and be pointed out the ono on
the left, nearest to the wall. I asked if he
occupied all the bed, and he said, "No, there was
some one slept with him," and the man was sent for and came
to the room. I asked him if he had any property about the
bed? Ha said " No." Police constable 'Thornton then began
to search the bed, and in doing so, he found the three gowns
produced rolled up together very tight. 1 asked Gamble to
whom they belonged, and he said they were his. I asked him
bow he came by them, and he said that they were given to
him. I asked him by whom, and he said " a friend." I said
" What friend ?" and he said " a female." I said " Who
is the female? " and he said, " Does that make
any difference?" I then sent him to the station-house.
I took the box which I saw down stairs to the station-house,
and with this key opened it iri the male prisoner's presence.
The first thing t took out was this shirt. I asked him if it
was his, and he said " Yes." I asked if it was marked. He
first said " Yes," and then " No." It is marked in ink, "S.
Perry." I then took out another shirt, marked similarly.
This, he said, was his also. fie said it was given to him by
the same person. I said " You've not told me who the per-
son was," and he said " Maty Good." Mary Good was not
',resent then. He said, " I had them in the bundle." I went
to the house of the f mule prisoner at eleven o'clock the same
night, and asked her if she knew a person of the name of
Rick or Rickard Gamble, and she said she did not ; she had
never heard or such a person. I then sent her to the station-
house.
Cross-examined—l went to Mary Good's, but made no
search there.
Wm, Henry Spice examined—l lire at No. 13, Duke. street,
Grosvenor-square, and am a chemist and druggist. I had an
assistant in April last, named Solomon Perry. I knew Mrs.
Jane Good, the deceased. She used to wash for me
and my assistant Perry. I have seen these shirts be-
fore, and I recognise his handwriting upon them.
I am sure they are his. The deceased washed for me
up to the day of her death. Mr. Parry is now in Cornwall.
Stephen Purdryan, D 16, re-called—l searched the female
prisoner's lodgings on Friday the Bth. I found these bundles
there; they contain a gown and two small work-boxes. I
found them in the corner of the room.
Daniel Good, jun., was re-called, and identified the two
work-boxes as having been in the possession of the deceased.
He had seen them every day up to Monday the 4th of April.
Whilst examining the contents of one of the boxes, the little
fellow discovered hie knife, and immediately taking it up, he
exclaimed, " Title is my knite, please, Sir, may I have it?"
Mr. Hall said it had better n t be taken away.
Mary Ann Grayson examined—l am the wife of Thomas
Grayson, and lodge in the same house with the feet le prisoner.
My husband is a silk dyer. 1 saw Good in Navigate on Satur-
day last. I saw the same man at Good's lodgings, about a
quarter past seven on Thursday morning, 7th April. On
Monday the I I th, I saw Gamble there for the first time, about
the middle of the day ; he stayed some time and went to her
room. I do not know what became of him afterwards.
He was there again the next day ; he called about
two o'clock and went up into her room. I saw him
shake hands with her ; he stayed some hours, and they went
out together: The last time I saw him there was on Thurs-
day morning, the 14th. He went up to her room then, and
stopped more than an hour. They then went out and re-
turned together, and he did not leave before eleven o'clock.
I live in the adjoining room to Mrs. Good's.
Cross-examined—l have lived at that place five years, and I
believe Molly Good lived there many years before I went there.
I never saw Daniel Good there before the time I have al-
luded to, all the while I lived there. I think I mutt have seen
him if he came there. I have often heard her speak about her
husband being away.
Gamble—You said on your oath that you have lived in this
house for five years. Did you ever see me there before 11th
April?
Witness—No, I (lid not.
Gamble—lf I had been in the habit of going there, would
you have seen me ?
Witness—Most likely, if you had been in the habit of going
there, I should have seen you.
Edward Pritchard examined—l live at 3, Essex-place,
Hoxton. I am a bedstead maker, I know the two pri-
soners. I have followed them about lately. I saw them
on Thursday, 14th inst. at the George and Guy, public-house,
Brick-lane. They drank there together. I was close to them.
I heard them converse together. Mrs. Good said, as near as
I can recollect, " Poor Dan; he's afraid he will be taken, but
he'll keep out of the way as long as he can." Gamble said,
" Hold your tongue, leave it to nie, and he'll never be taken."
They came out of the public-house, awl I went out after them.
Alice Tluckster examined—l am bar-maid at the George
and Guy public-house, Brick-lane, Spitalfields. I know the
female prisoner ; she came to our house about two o'clock on
Friday, the Bth of this month ; she asked me to take care of
two duplicates, I said 1 would, and she gave them to me, and
went away instantly. I saw her three or four days afterwards,
and she asked me if I knew what I had taken, and I said yes;
she said "Do not say anything about it." I have given them
to Inspector Pearce.
Mr. Maule—l must now go back, Sir, to the history of
Sarah Butcher receiving this property, which I could not carry
on before in consequence of the absence of Parry, the con-
stable.

Susan Butcher examined—On Wednesday, 6th April, Daniel
Good called at my father's house, and gave me a blue bonnet, a
gown, a shawl, and handkerchief, a fur tippet, a pair of gloves,
en I a pair of boots, now produced. On the following day I
delivered all of them to Sergeant Parry.
Police Sergeant Parry, 8 11, examined—l received the
articles enumerated by the last witness from her on Thursday,
7th April.
Mary Anne Clarke re-called—This bonnet belonged to
Mrs. Jane Good ; I am sure of it, because I made it myself.
I have seen the deceased wear it very often, every Suuday. This
gown I believe to have belonged to the deceased. I have
seen her wear one of the same make, colours, and pattern.
Mr. HALL—Has any one looked into the box of Jane Jones,
alias Good, to see what clothes were there? Witness—The
wearing apparel is all taken away, I believe, Sir.
At Mr. HALL'S request Inspector Pearce was recalled, anti

he stated—Last Tuesday I received two duplicites from Alie
Thackster ; I delivered them to Sergeant Stepher,s on the fol-
lowing day, and told him to redeem the property, which he did.
Police Sergeant Stephens.A, 13—I secolved two duplicates
on the 20th inst. in the name of William Stan!ey, from Mr.
Pearce. I went to llr. &lames in Brirk-lane, and redeemed
the property on the same day and left the duplilates.
Mr. Maule—That's my case, Sir.
Mr. Pelham--I wish to know how you propose to deal
with this ease, Sir ? It the deceased were the wife of Good,
the property would be his, and it would be no felony
on the part of the • prisoner to receive it ; and
the female • prisoner cannot be indicted as a re-
ceiver. If she was not his wife, and he Stole the
things, and gave them to the female prisoner, then she cannot
be indicted as a receiver. Then if the female prisoner he his
wife, she cannot be indicted for receiving or harbouring him
after the fact, supposing him to be guilty thereof. Those are
the difficulties, and it rests with the Court to say how Par they
are guilty, and of what offence.
Mr. HALL—How do you propose, Mr. Maule, that this case
should be dealt with ?
Mr. Maule—l must submit to you, Sir, that there is abun-
dant evidence to prove that these persons are accessories after the
fact, in harbouring and comforting him after the felony. There
is no evidence that either the female prisoner or the deceased
was the wife of Daniel G,od. They very likely both of them
cohabited with him. The evidence is rather against the fejnee
prisoner being his wife, for it was known that he never went
there till very lately.
Mr. HALL—You nee.' not mind that. I wish to hear in
what way you propose to commit them.
Mr. MA uLE— i t appears to me, Sir, from the evidence, that
they harboured, and assisted, and aided him, knowing him to
have committed the felony.

Mr. HALL—There is 'but one conversation between them
you know. _ '

Mr. Maule—There is one witness who heard a elnver-
sation between the female prisoner and another woman, which
proved that she was aware of it; and the conversation
between the two prisoners at the George and Guy,
shows that Gamble knew of it; and another witness, the
waiter at the Spotted Dog, speaks to the same' effect. It is
quite clear that both the prisoners were in possession of part of
the deceased's property ; they deny having pots, ssion of them
at first; then I say the possession of the deceased's property
proves that, after the murder, Good hastened to London, and
carried off the property of the deceased ; a great part of this he
took to the house of Mary Good, and, through her instru-
mentality, a part of it is taketi to the house of Gamble ;
there it is concealed, and there it is found. If. I am
right in the conclusions I draw, I say there is ample evidence
to put these prisoners upon their trial on the charge of being
accessories after the fact of the murder; or it not, that the fact
of their having the goods and denying the possession of them
without being able to account fur it, is in my opinion quite
sufficient to warrant you in putting them upon their trial for
being accessories after the fact.
Mr. HALL —No doubt if the deceased were the wife of Da-
niel Good, there would ho an end of the case, and if Mary Good
ware his wife, she could not be an accessory either with
respect to the murder or the goods. A wife may be con-
cerned in a murder jointly with her husband ; but she would
he considered in law sub protestati nisi. There is not
however, the slightest evidence of the deceased
being the wife of Daniel Good, or to show that
Mary Good is, or ever was, the wife of Daniel Good. The
case must, ierefore, be treated as if neither of them
were his wife. The case against Gamble, with re-
spect to his being found in possession of this property, is
very strong. He is seen on the 11th in the house of this
Woman, and that is the first time we find them together. On
the 12th, too, and on the 14th, he is seen to go into her house
and to come out; and on the 16th the goods are found
under his bed. I do not mean to say that this
implies any attempt at secrecy, because there might have
been no other place of safety wherein to deposit the property.
I cannot help thinking on the whole that I should have no
hesitation in saying that he ought to be put upon his trial as a
receiver of stolen property. Under all the circumstances - I
think I shall commit him on this part of the ease. With
respect to Mary Good, the case against her as accessory after
the fact is much stronger than against Gamble.
( The worthy Magistrate teen recapitulated the 'principal
points in the evidence, and he then continued) : —These are
all very strong facts; but I think the best and safest course I
can adopt, is to commit them both as recei ers of stolen pro-
perty, leaving it to the gentlemen coma rned in the prosecution
to prefer any other charge which they may think proper.
Mr. Burnaby, the Chief Clerk, then commenced reading the
depositicns, which occupied a considerable time ; they were
concluded by six o'clock, when the witnesses were all bound
over to prosecute, and the prisoners were fully committed to
take their trial at the next Old Bailey Sessions on the charge
.of receiving stolen property, well knowing it to have been
stolen.

Mary Good applied to know if she might have the money
which had been tound upon her, and which the police hat taken
from her, for the purpose of procuring some comforts for her-
self whilst in prison.
Mr. HA L. t. granted the application, and also male an order
that the IL 10s. found on Gamble shoald be given up to him.
The prisoners were then removed from the bar, and were
shortly after conveyed to Newgate, in the prison van,
IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT,

HOUSE OF LORDS, April 25.
Their Lordships met at five o'clock.

ADMINISTRATION OF OATHS.
Lord DENMAN presented a great number of peti-
tions from various parts of Scotland and England, pray-
ing that persons having conscientious scruples against
the taking of oaths should be heard upon their affirma-
tion in Courts of Justice.
EDUCATION IN IRELAND.
The Earl of WICKLOW presented petitions from
various parts of Ireland, in favour of the Church Edu-
cation Society.
Similar petitions were presented by the Earls of CHAR-
' LRVILLE and l'ilotmrreAsur.L.
PRESBYTERIAN MARRIAGES.
..
Lord CAMPBELL, in the absence of the Marquis of
Breadalbanc, presented a petition from Caithnos:;, pray-
ing that caution should be used in altering the law of.
marriage as it affected Presbyterians.
COLLEGE OF MAYNOOTIT. .
The Earl of WINCHILSEA presented a petition
from a place in Suffolk against the grant to the College
of Msynooth.
RATING OF SMALL TENEMENTS.
The Noaa EARL presented a petition from the
Guardians and others of tit:: Union of Coiling-
bourn, praying that the landlords of cottages
should be rated for the same to the Poor-rates, instead
of leaving it. to the parish to get the contribution from
the poor inhabitants as-they could.
SPIRIT DUTIES (IRELAND) BILL.
The Duke of WELLINGTON in moving the third
reading of. the Irish Spirit Ditties Bill said, that
from the inquiries he had made he was satisfied
that the Bill would not increase illicit distillation. The
Noble Duke was understood to say that ii would post-
pone for the present the, consideration of tha clause.;
relating to the drawback upon spirits imported from
Scotland.

Lord MONTEAGLE believed that illicit distillation
was rapidly on the increase, requiring, in one county
(Donegal) two-thirds of the police force to check it ; and
that increase would spread over the whole of Ireland if
any further encouragement were given.
The Earl of WICKLOW was glad to learn that- it
was the intention of the Noble Duke to introduce his
measure respecting malt' in another The Noble
Earl saw the danger to which the Noble Lord opposite
(Lord Monteagle).3 had alluded, but he hoped, however,
that the assurances given by the Noble Duke would be
realised.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE felt the greatest and
the deepest regret that the Government were going to
risk an encouragement to the revival of illicit distillation
in Ireland; which, if once called into activity, would re-
quire an army to put it down.

Lord CLO-NCLIRRY said, that the produce of the in-
creased tax would be but a poor compensation for the
evils which it would, occasion by encourag.tn,g illicit dis-
tillation.
The Bill was then read a third t; me and passed.
E LTC AMY_ (IRELAND):

The Marquis of LONDOisTDEURY Presented peti•
tions from places in the county of Down, in favour of the
Church Edncation Society.

IMPORTATION OF CATTLE.

The Earl of ROSEBEBRY presented a petition from
Kent against that part of the tariff which relates to the
importation of cattle.
THE QUEEN'S PRISONS BILL.
On the reading of the Order of the DaY for the
Committee on the Queen's Prisons Bill, ;
The Earl of DEVON presented a petitibn from seve-
ral persons confined in the Queen's Bench and Fleet
Prisons, complaining that the Bill would deprive them
of the indulgence of the rules which they now enjoyed.
Lord CAMPBELL though tit was desirable to continue
the indulgence of the rules ; but would nut move any
amendment to the clauses on this subject.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE objected to the rules. He said
that the persons. who took advantages of theni were
enabled to defy their creditors, and to refuse settle-
ment of their affairs. It should he rentembered that
these persons could obtain their' liberty if they pleased,
and the- toles only encouraged them to continue under
arrest, and put off the payment of their debts.
Lord DENMAN considered the rules a very great
evil, with the exception of the day rules, . which
certainly did sometimes enable a prisoner to bring-about
a more speedy settlement of hit affairs.
The Bill then went through Committee, and was or.
tiered to be printed.,
DISSENTERS' AFFIRMATION:

Lord DENMAN presented a petition from a Baptist
congregation in Dunfermline, in favour of the Bill to
enable those who have conscientious objections to take
an oath to be allowed to give evidence on affirmztion.
ANATOMY ACT.
Earl STANHOPE presented a petition from a place
in Cambridge, against the proposed alteration of the
Corn laws, and against the new tariff. The Noble
Earl also presented a petition from a gentleman named
William Roberts, the inventor of an ingenious and va-
luable discovery in anatomical matters, complaining of
a refusal, on the part of the Commissioners appointed
in February, 1840, by the Secretary of State for the
Home Department, for the purpose of investigating
the working of the Anatomy Act,
.to examine him -upon
the abuses of that Act ; and praying that a Coran,ntee
might be appointed to take into consideration the serious
and permanent importance of the petitioner's allegatiOns,
awl that an opportunity might be afforded him of makinr,
a statement on this subject, and suppordng it by the
examination of witnesses.
The Marquis of NORMANBY not having had notice
of the Noble Earl's intention to present the petition, or
to make the- observations which had fallenfroin him,, was
not prepared to answer them. He deprecated the mischief's
which were occasioned by raising unfounded prejudice
in the minds of the people.— (Hear, hear.) He admitted
that every care should be taken to respect the feelings
of the poor ; but he thought at the same time,
the Noble Earl ought to exercise a more sound
discretion as to the time and manner in Which he
brought forward discussions of this nature.--(ilear,
hear.) if the Noble Earl had given him notice, he (Lord
No. would have obtained the necessary information;
and he was ready to join the Noble Earl
in moving for any papers or any information lie might
desire. He (thc Marquis of N.) had appointed
a Commission ; and the Commissioners not having.
carried into effect the reforms which he considered'
desirable, he repeatedly remonstrated _ with them,
upon the delay in making their report. From thew

•
remonstrances, the Noble Earl might see that he had
been desirous of securing to the public the proper carrying
out of the Bill ; and he was sure that the present
Governrumt would be equally desirous to do so.
The Duke of WELLINGTON thought that his Noble
Friend ought not to present a petition containing impute'
Cations upon an individual without giving notice. His
Noble Friend had had the petition in his possession more
than one day, and he had ample time to give notice.
After a few words from Lord BROUGHAM, and from
Earl STANHOPE in explanation, the petition was ordered
to lie on the table, and the House adjourned.