The Sun.
London, England, 1827-05-26 00:00:00

MANUFACTURING DISTRESS.

Mr. DAVENPORT said, that after what had occurred
last night, which was fixed on for his motion, he could
not flatter himself that the House had any disposition to
enter into a discussion on the state of the Manufacturing
Di'tricts ; nevertheless, he was resolved to make one other,
and it should be a final effort, and with that view, he would
bring forward the motion, which has dropped by the ad-
journment of-the House last night,, on Thursday, the 14th
of June.

Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN presented a petition from
certain persons, natives of Inverness and Aberdeenshire,
who some time since had been induced by the agents of
the Colombian Agricultural Association to migrate to Co-
lombia, under representations of the fertility of the soil
where they were to settle. But that, after hating reached
the 'place' of destination, they discovered that the land,
so far from answering the glowing descriptions by which
their hopes were- so much raised, would take a consider-
able time before it was in a state to be cultivated ; and
that, in consequence of their being 'disabled from procur-
ing the common necessaries of life, they were reduced to so
deplorable a state, that a wretched linen trousers and a
blanket with a hole in it, constituted the entire of their
habiliments. They prayed that the Government would
enable them to be sent to Canada.

The following is a copy of the petition
To the Right lionourable the Speaker and Members
of the House of Commons of Great Britain and
Ireland, in Parliament assembled.

Topo, near Comma, South America, Nov. 21, 1826,

Gentlemen—Permit a small and humble portion of your
fellow-subjects most respectfully to make known to you,
from a distant part of the globe, their melancholy and for-
lorn condition, and to implore your consideration and pro-
tection.

We are mostly natives of Scotland, and chiefly from
Inverness and Aberdeenshire. We were living qmetly in
our homes, mostly with large families, and found it diffi-
cult to prOvide for theinovhen an agent of the Colombian
Agricultural Association of London sought us out, and
visited us. We did not seek to leave our native country,
but were allured from our houses, our native fields, and
avocations, under a belief that the Colombian 'Agricultural
Association would give us some of the best lands in Colom-
bia, and that, in a few years at most, we might gain free-
hold farms of about 50 acres each. This was the height of
our ambition—an ambition cherished excited by the
agents on behalf of the Association.'
Thus we have been induced, under great names and spe-
cious promises, to settle in a country in which we are
strangers to the language, and the political hemisphere of
which is now beclouded with the threatened storms of re-
volution. The lands which we occupied were not selected
by us, but the estate was purchased by the agents here,
and proved to be some of the worst, instead of some of
the best land in Colombia, as promised us ; but we were in
debt to the Association for our passage and rations, and
we were in the power of the agents, and had no choice
but to endeavour to cultivate, even against hope, the bar-
ren rocks, the waste wilderness on which we were so un-
expectedly and unhappily placed. .
The estate of Topo, of which we are speaking, is situat-
ed twelve miles from Caraccas : the land, which is the best
of the whole, has no irrigation ; it is surrounded by moun-
tains, and they attract the clouds, monopolising the rains,
and leave to the wild woods and weeds of Topo little more
than the wind ; 120 acres of land yielding only 200 bushels
of maize and about 30 of beans, among 140 persons, SO of
whom are children or females under 14 years of age. On
good land we should have raised 3 'to 4,000 bushels in a
season at all favourable; whereas our crops do not afford
two bushels of any kind of food for each person. This is
not the result of any bad season, for before any European
set foot on Topo, it was proverbial for its sterility and bad
harvests, and the natives tell us the present season is the
best they have seen for ten years past, and nothing bat the
ruin of the settlement had been expected from the first, by
many of the most respectable natives, who know the
lands.—Topo being only another name for barrenness.
To the failure of our harvest is to be added the sudden
stoppage of our rations, which had been promised for four
months longer. Thus deceived by the agents of the Com-
pany who brought us out, we are now deserted by that
Company; settled on a barren rock, we have been left to
encounter beggary, bankruptcy, and starvation there, and
in this country, where the difficulty of getting employment
is very great. _ _ _

We must have starved before this time had it not been
for the generosity of Wm. Acres, Esq., of Caraccas ; Foster
and Co., Tulic ; M'Webster and Co. ; Mr. M'Martin ;
Spotte, Shawley, and Co., and other merchants of La Guayra
and Caraccas, who have humanely headed the subscription
for our present relief. This will not, cannot, last long,
and as many of us wish to go to Canada, we humbly im-
plore the aid and assistance of your Honourable House, for
that object, and your petitioners humuly submir, to the
wisdom of your Honourable House, that it is high time
that a strong interference of Parliament were made to
prevent our fellow subjects being thus allured, deceived,
and deserted in foreign lauds. We hear companies and
merchants speculate in merchandize ; whether they lose or
gain, their commodities know nothing' of the heart-
ache, and the owners only suffer; but where they specu-
late on the interests, and at the expence of humanity, the
heart-ache, the head-ache, and all the pains of misery, in-
volve persons like ourselves in the very gloom and depths
of calamity and want, and make us objects of your com-
passion.

And, iu duty bound, your petitiouero will ever pray for

your peace and happiness, for • your HearegfttildOrdi
every earthly good to attend you.
(Signed) ELIZABETH BULCHART
LILLY HALLIDAY
DUNCAN GILLIES
JOHN WALLACE
JOHN GILLIES -
WALTER M'DONALD
AND 28 OTHERS.

Mr. SLANEY, seeing the Secretary for the Home
Department in his place, begged to ask whether it was the
intention of his Majesty's Government to bring forward
any measure to carry- il.to effect the recommendations of
the Committee on the Poor Laws which sat in 1818, 19,
and 20, with regard to the employment of the aged poor.
Mr. Secretary BOURNE having intimated to t..e Hon.
Gentleman that there was no intention on the part of Go-
vernment to adopt that recommendation,

Mr. SLANEY gave notice of a motion upon the subject
for the 12th of June.
Mr. W. WHITMORE moved for a return of all articles-
imported into this country and exported during the years
1790 and 1826 respectively, specifying the rates of duties
payable, and the quantity entered for home consumption ;
and also for a Return of the Excise Duties taken in the
same period.—Ordered.
Lord MILTON moved for a Return of the Amount
levied for Hearth and Window Duties daring each of the
last five years; together with the amount of the Assessed
Taxes during the same period, specifying the sums raised
in Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, with Salford and
Sheffield.—Ordered.
SUPPLY—THE ADMINISTRATION.

Mr. HERRIES having moved " That the House do
resolve itself into a Committee of Supply"—
On the question of the Speaker's leaving the Chair,
Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDGE said, I hope I may
now be allowed to avail myself of my undoubted right and
privilege, as a Representative of the People in this House
—I hope, at the same 'time, that I could not be supposed
capable of wishing to avail myself of that right, without
being able to show that I am actuated by a conscientious
motive, as well as by a deep-rooted feeling of whatiso'right
in the course I pursue, however singular that course may
seem to some, and however unpleasant it may prove to
others—l am sure, however, that I cannot be called to
order now—l am sure that I have now an undoubted right
t 6 exercise my privilege of addressing this House as a Re-
presentative of the People, and to state my opinions upon
questions affecting the general state of the Empire, in any
way which I may think I ought to do it, provided that I
pursue a course consistent with the known rights and un-
doubted privileges of a Member of Parliament.—The
course which I observe the newly-formed Adnfinistration
pursuing, is one which is disapproved of by the country,
and which, if it continues, will work injury, not only in
the British empire, but throughout Europe. To such an
Administration I shall not be deterred from offering oppo-
sition—not by obloquy—not by taunts—not by threats
—not even by the eloquent threats of the Right Hon. Gent.
who threatened me, in finely poetic language, though it
seemed to partake of prose.—(Much laughter)—for
the Right Hon. Gentleman introduced an alteration of his
own, to give me information that would " sear my eyes
and blast my heart." This language the Right Hon.
Gentleman thought proper to address to me—language,
I must say, that ought not to be addressed by one Hon.
Member in. this House to another, and that is not fitting to
be .used by the First Minister of the British Empire.—
(Hear, and a laugh. )—Now I will not use these words ; but
if I thought proper I might show him some opinion's of the
country, which, to speak preperly, the line which the
Right Hon. Gentleman altered, would " shew his eye and
grieve his heart." What lam desirous to call the atten-
tion of the House to is the position in which the Adminis-
tration of which the Right Hon. Gentleman is the head
stands, and deserves to stand, in the estimation of the coun-
try, and to remark upon the changes, or rather the nature
of those changes. In my opinion, it is impossible for a
Government, the Members of which are so anomalously
composed, to preside over the Administration of the coun-
try with advantage. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Prime
Minister, of whose "master-mind" we have lately heard so
much, and who possesses, I admit, great power and talents,
will show such a " master-mind " and talents as I believe no
other human being to possess, if he keep together au Admi-
nistration composed of persons of such different and opposite
principles, each of whom declares that he will maint,4;ll
his own. It is not necessary to go far back to show the
inclination manifested towards the coalition that had lately
taken place. For the last two or three years I have ob-
served the preparing and concocting of what bad led to the
late result. I will not, however, go so far back ; I will
refer to a period nearer in history, and coming under our
more immediate observation. I will refer to some ques-
tions Which I put (the first of them not more than a fort-
night ago) to the Right Hon. Gentleman in perfect since-
rityeand candour, and to which, I think, the Right Hon.
"Gentleman was bound in honour and honesty to afford in
reply all the information I required. The last of these
questions was put by me on Monday last, when, after a
partial answer, the Right Hon. Gentleman declared he
would give no more information in answers to questions
put to him, unless a motion were made for the purpose of
eliciting the information which I sought. The first ques-
tion which I put related to the circumstance of his having
been joined by the Leaders of the' Opposition ; and When,
after be had admitted them to be his Colleagues, and had
declared, that before he had done'so, and before even the
breaking up of the late Administration, overtures had
been made to him by Members of the Opposition, I
inquired if he had made any communication to his
Colleagues of his having received such overtures?—
This question I put for the purpose of eliciting a
particular point I had in view, and because they (his Col-
leagues) had denied that they had known any thing of
these overtures. This question the Right Honourable
Gentleman refused to answer. But he had done so, I be-
lieve, not in accordance with his own free will, but be-
cause some Hon. Members thought proper to advise him
not to do so, and he adopted their advice. Ido not com-
plain of it; but it ought not, and will not escape the at-
tention of the country. Another ground of distrust with
me is, that the persons composing the Administration are
opposed in principle to each other. Another ground of
objection and distrust with me is, what has been admitted
in another place, that the majority of the present Admi-
nistration is opposed, on an important and vital principle,
to an illustrious—(Cries of " Order, order.")—l know I
am standing on delicate ground, I will proceed as carefully
as may be, and as the rules of the House require ; bat
though I am not permitted to conclude what I was about
to say, the Heuse perfectly understands what I was about
to show—that a complete difference exists on a great and
leading question between that illustrious—(Loud general
cries of "Order, order.)

Sir W. WYNNE—The Hon. Baronet must know that
he is quite out of order; and he is the less excusable for
being so, as he has but just pledged himself to the House
that he would confine himself within its rules.—(Cheers.)

Sir T. LETHBRIDGE—WeII ! I will be doubly
guarded now.—(A laugh. )—But I will not be diverted
from my point—(Hear, and a laugh)—and I will avail my-
self of the utmost limits that the rules of the House afford
to bring it forward. Suppose, then, some country not far
from the kingdom called Great Britain—
Mr. C. WYNNE—" Sir, I call upon you to confine the
Honourable Baronet within the orders of the House. It is
not a point of etiquette that is involved in the course the
Honourable Baronet is pursuing; but an important Con-
stitutional principle is involved—in which the freedom of
debate in this House, and in which a principle distinguish-
ing the separation of the different branches of the Li-gisla-
ture, depend.—:(Hear, hear.)—l submit, Sir, that that
which an Honourable Member cannot say directly, he can-
not say indirectly. If the point at which he aims is one
that cannot be stated consistently with the rules of the
House, no observations which he adopts as means to arrive
at it could sanction it, and they ought not therefore to be
listened to by the House."—(Hear, hear.)
The SPEAKER—I take it to be my duty to declare,
that what cannot be said directly cannot be said indirectly
—(Hear, hear)—and if I could have arrived at the infer-
ence which the Honourable Baronet was about to draw, be-
fore he came to it, with as much distinctness as the Right
Honourable Gentleman seems to have done, it would cer-
tainly have been my duty to have called him to order. The
Honourable Baronet must be fully aware that the substitu-
tion of the Monarch of some other realm, whereby it was
meant to convey the Sovereign of this country, whose
name could not be uttered in this House without a viola-
tion of the orders of this House, could not be allowed con-
sistently with a due observance of the rules of the House.
The rules of debate of this House require that that name
should not be introduced to influence a debate, particularly
in anything in which the Sovereign was acting without
responsibility.
Sir THOMAS LETHIMIDGE.—I hope, in what I
shall add, I shall observe the orders of the House. In
what I still to urge, I shall avoid this point as much
as I possibly can—(laughter) ; though it is oue, I own,
which, as it appears to me the strongest, I should be glad
notice
the urge. The Honourable Gentleman proceeded to
the explanation which the Right Hon. Gentleman (the
Chancellor of the Exchequer) said_he was permitted to
give by the Sovereign, respecting the resignations. In
consequence, (said Sir T. L.) of these resignations, the
Right Hon. Gentleman was appointed to the office of
Prime Minister, and on that occasion he informed us that
he was directed to reconstruct an Administration on the

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sa. 10 ,s ; nor did he construct it on his own.
,- • d eaterpezo.i. l* nttenstr_uet it on
it 4.,,;. it • , TV. not fin.si.tault with Ins own. But what
I eat% : ' - . :thet4o-, etfinitructed it on principles
totally.oppen t. 'llli-Oil. Government was formed on
the pnnetge iffriMtitirtonapromise. All those who had
most influence on this (the Opposition) side of the House
—even the apparent, if not the avowed, Leader of it—.
took their seats on the Ministerial side, and abandoned that
on which they had acted so vigorously and zealously for
many years against the Right Hon. Gentleman; yet they
declared that they had preserved the principles upon which
they had always acted. Why, they only agreed upon one
point, and that point they dare not toueh.—(Hear, hear.)
—They now totally omitted the question, the essential
question, as they called it—the question of Catholic Eman-
cipation—of which they had declared that a day ought net
to be allowed to pass without its being carried is
That the Right Honourable Gentleman
,and
those around him are men of talents. I adMit ; but
if they do not prove that they ate men of integrity
too, they may depend upon it their talents would
not weigh as a feather An the scale, in the esthete-
-don of the people of England; and from the conduct
they have exhibited, the people of 'England will have a
pretty account to give of their moral eiotfh. The ques-
tion, about which they were so anxious, was one en which
the consciences of the 'people of England would not be
forced. The Right Hon. Gentleman may be ,dent of
a majority now, but the day is not far distant—detiend tii'm
it " the march of intellect"--(Loud laughter)se-the Right
et,,z
Hon. Gentleman seemed to laugh—indeed " the march of
intellect" seemed now to be a subject of merriment. I
speak advisedly ; the effect of what was called " the match
of intellect," of the diffusion of knowledge, and_of the en-
lightenment of the people, would be to fill them with ex-
ceeding disgust. It is because I view their conduct in the
light I do, that I feel it my duty to oppose the granting
supplies, now in the course of being completed, and to
expose their conduct. If only one or two of those who
went over to that side of that House would come back
again (as ere long I expect they will), the conduct of tho
present Administration would be exposed in its true and
disgusting colours.—(Hear, and laughter.),—Let us have r
little of their talent, end it would be properly done.
(Great and continued laughter.)--The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman (Mr. Canning) has really host hitriself--he has eh--
scended in the estimation of the country, &ism the frig!,
pinnacle on which he stood. I would have hien ioCe
sharp.—(Much laughter.) I know he is equal to taking
care of himself.---(Langhter.)—The Cabinet consists of 15
Members—of these, 12 are for, and S against Catholic
Emancipation-12 to B, fearful odds.—(Hear, hear, and
a laugh). Yet it is not carried ; and even with such a
majority in its favour, they will not dare to have it enter-
mined. At present the Cabinet consists of a minority of
Whigs; but to use a metaphor of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, the Whigs had got the wedge in edgeways—they 64
not yet driven it in with effect. But let him beware, for
when once they begun to drive, he could not resist them—
he could not prevent them from driving up to the hilts--
(general laughter). I perceive the Right Hon. Gentleman
laughs; he does not seem to consider it so serious a matter
—but I would tell him his situation is very ticklish.—:
(Laughter).—He will be disunited soon from those around
him ; he may, for the present, go on smoothly ; but with
the opposite principles entertainet: y him and those who
now support him, they cannot long sit together. The
Right Hon. Gentleman had got up and said, " If you mean
to oppose us, why not bring forward a motion—why not
abandon the- course you now pursue, in putting vexatious
questions--hitting us between wind end water ?" Theo
theßight Hon. Gentleman was cheered from one end of the
House to the other. He is a complete tacti, !an, and is
not ever at a loss what to say, or bow to act. I can assure
him, if I do not bring forward a motion, it is not from
want of inclination—(mach laughter from the Ministerial
benches:)—l am aware, that although no person on the
opposite side could conscientiously vote against the propo-
iition which I might propose, yet that the Right Hon.,
Gentleman would be certain of a majority. Nov, I don't
think I'll give notice of a motion to-night, nor do I think
I'll give notice of one on Monday; but I wish it may he
understood that what I say i- laid in perfect good humour
I eutertain no unkindness or personal hostility to any one;
I must discharge a duty in holding up to public view the
conduct of those who have deserted their principles. The
Fact is known here, and elsewhere ; and although I must
not let it out here, it is now taking a most delightful ex-
cursion up and down the country.—(Laughter.)—lt is, in
my opinion, a subject of congratulati ' . If the Right
lion. Gentleman had-formed an Administration either on
Lord Liverpool's principlesor his own, I say again I would
not blame him ; but he has not only not formed one on his
own principles, but on principles diametrically opposite. I.
cannot conceive how an Administration, consisting of
Members of such discordant opinions, can comur in mea-
sures beneficial to the country. [The Hon. Baronet went
on to enforce the several points he had previously urged,
and concluded by disclaiming any personal hostility, and
declaring that, in what he had said, he had only acted in
conformity with a conscientious lischerge of his duty.]
Mr. CIJRWEN did not think the Hon. Baronet con-
ducted his opposition with discretion ; if be were anxious
to root the present Administration in the affections of the
country, he could not adopt a more effective course. It
he were asked, could he conscientiously support the Admi-
nistration of the Right Hon. Gentleman ? he would reply,
he would give it his support, as being the most competent
to extricate the country from its difficulties. Without
pledging himself to approve all his measures, he would say.
" Give him fair play !"—(Cheers.)
Lord CASTLEREAGH wished to explain the grounds
of his want of confidence in the present savants of the
Crown. He disclaimed all perst,i.al hostility, and stated
that he felt himself almost in an isolated situation in tho
House, aa he differed from many of those who sat on tho
same side on a subject which appeared to him, net only on
account of Ireland, but of the Empire at large, of the most
vital importance—he meant the Catholic question. What-
ever hopes he had had of that question, they, were now
sunk for ever. Although the Ministry were composed o f
twelve Members in favour, and three against it; yet were
thbse twelve, and all their influence, and all their ta'.
but as dust in the balance against the insuperable bar now
raised against the Catholics. What was not kirnva before
was now known—the established opinion entertained in
the highest quarter. For himself, he belonged to no party ;
but was opposed to the present Government, because he
thought that by the recent changes the interests of Ireland
had been deprived of the active services of their principa 1
advocates; and because, under the present Administration,
he had less hope of the Catholic Question being carried,
than under that which preceded it.
Mr. LINDSAY• expressed his surprise that if there hail
been so great a concurrence of opinions on all points he-
tween the Hon. Gentlemen who had lately declared their
intention of supporting his Majelty's Government, and that
Government, those Gentlemen had remained so long on
the Opposition Bencbes. The late alliance which had
taken place seemed to him to be one of the most extraor-
dinary that could possibly be imagined. He certainly could
repose no confidence in parties so joined, until he shotddsee
the measures which proceeded from them ; and he bad
thought it his duty to take the present opportunity of say •
ing so.

Sir ROBERT WILLIAMS, as he was one Member o f
the extraordinary coalition to which the Hon. Gentleman
who had last !spoken bad refereed, begged leave expressly to
deny that there had been the slightest inconsistency or dig.
honour in the step which had been taken.

Mr. YNNE said, that although undoubtedly his fe
ings would induce him to support his Majesty's Goys' n-
ment, yet that he must see what their actions were bef,ro
he could conscientiously declare that be would give them
his support. It appeared to him quite clear, that on the
one hand the question of Parliamentary Reform, so on the
other the question of Catholic Emancipation had been
thrown overboard; at which last circumstanc we under-
stood the Hon. Gentleman, although from the noise which
prevailed in the House, we cannot vouch for our accuracy,
to express his satisfaction.
Lord SANDON dmied that the present Administration
had done any such thing as to throw the Catholic question
overboard. The individual Members of the Cabinet were
at liberty each to pursue his own view respecting it ; but
the question was not to be Lrought forward by his Ma-
jesty's Government. He must say, however, that he
thought every man who was a true friend to the Catholic
Question acted a most inconsistent part in opposing the
present Government.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. J. GRATTAN was perfectly convinced, and no-
strongly supporting no-
thing could persuade him to the contrary, that no line of
conduct could better serve the Catholic cause than thz.t of
supporting hie Majesty's present Ministers.—
(Hear, He was astonished at the conduct of the
present Opposition, who were constantly pressing questions
and introducing desultory discussions, instead of at once
bringing forward some specific motion.—(Hear.) With
respect to the question of the Dissenters, it did not of..
feet his country, he was not particularl,- called on to sup-
port it.—(Bear.) The Catholic Question had superior
claims on inns. The present was not, he thought, the
time for bringing it forward ; and, in his opinion, it ought
to have the precedence. With respect to Parliamentary
Reform, he might, as an Irishman, be excused if he did
not precipitate the consideration of that question.
Lord J. RUSSELL chiefly rose to say, that it would, in
his opinion, be unfair, and unjust, on entering into a Cons.
mittee of supply, to call Ou a uew Government to stat 2

What retrenehmer.tte Alley meant to make. He should,
however, resgr':e to 'himself the right, next year, to oppose
any ibeln ot expenditure which, after the labours of the fi-
nance committee had been completed, he might deem im-
proper.

Tip: &Lila& then left the Chair, and the House resol-
Ved itself into a committee on the
IRISH MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.
Mr. W. LAMB moved, that a t urn not exceeding
18,5001. be voted for the Protestant charter schools in
Ireland for the year 1827.
Mr. HUME, in making a few observations on this
item, had no other object in view but that of reducing the
national expenditures It was quite impossible that this
country could go on while such immense establishments
were kept UP? in Ireland and elsewhere. He regretted much
that the faiancellor of the Exchequer, as there was time
sufftn;.ent for the purpose, had not referred those estimates
to a Committee up stairs. This would, at least, have
!.down a disposition fur retrenchment. He did not wish
to press any opposition to the motion at the present mo-
ment, because he thought it only fair that Ministers should
be allowed to look round them.
Sir J. NEWPORT was bf opinion that the constitution
and management of these schools required revision. The
Hon. Member then adverted to the Linen Board, the con-
stitution of whisl, he hoped would be altered. He should,
perhaps, be illowed to state, that in changing his side of
the linn:ie he had not abandoned one principle which he
120.'sormeriy supported.—(Hear.)—He supported the pre-
sent Administration, because a large portion of those who
composed it held those opinions which he had long enter-
tained.....(Hear.)—He gave them his assistance freely, be-
eall:Se they weis opposed ni men who were all their lives
inimical to the bceat object of Catholic Emancipation.—
(Hear.)
Mr. S. RICE observed, that nothing could be more un-
candid than to discuss miontely the present estimates,
prepared, as they had been, bef'ore his Right Hon. Fri,. ad
(Mr. Lamb) came into power. With respect to the pre-
sent vote, he did not mean to cppose it ; but he hoped next
year that it would be considerably reduced. He again
begged to ask his Right Hon. Friend whether it was his
intention to adopt any measure, or to take any course,
founded on the reports of the Committee of Inquiry, during
the piesent realign?
Lord MILTCN did not mean to oppose the estimates,
because they were not the work of the present Adminis-
trlaition, and that body was not, therefore, responsible for
them. There were, however, parts of them which he did
not approve of, although they had long been the objects-
of particular favour. A Government, in his opinion, had
no business with charity : it belonged exclusively to indi-
viduals. In his opinion, the who;c of the money be-,
stowed on this vote was mis-spent. He trusted that the
whole of these grants would undergo a thorough revision
and that next year they would be laid before the House in
a reduced state.
Mr. MABERLY should not oppose any estimate laid
before the House ttis session, because he thought it but fair
to leave Minist-ers to themselves, and not to embarrass them
by new sur,gestions at this moment. But next year, if he
found himself disappointed in what he expected, he hoped
they would not accuse him of inconsistency if he refused
then' his support.
Mr. G. DAWSON said, the Noble Lord had observed,
that the Government ought not to have any thing to do
with charity. That might be very true with respect to
this country, but it ssas not so with reference to Ireland.
What ,vas the great cause of the misery of Ireland ? What
was the cause of the extensive system of absenteeship 2 It
was the attraction of living in this country which operated
most powerfully. Now if those persons, absentees from Ire-
land, were indifferent about assisting the charitable institu-
tions of that country, he thought it but fair that the country
which derived the benefit of their absenteeship should sup-
ply the deficiency thus created. He wished this branch of
expenditure to be discussed in a committee, where it might
be considered with much more coolness and temper than it
could he in the House ; and when that inquiry took place,
be was sure that gentlemen would find that an increase,
rather than a diminution of the grant for Irish charitable
institutions, ought to be sanctioned.
Mr. CROK.Ert begged leave to remind the House, whilst
Cis subject Was under discussion, that there were no poor
laws in Ireland ; that there was, in that country, no mode
of reanedying those extremes of misery which the poor
laws remedied ners, beyond the activity of those charitable
institutions which the Government supported. When this
subject-came before a Committee, he trusted that it would
be considered on great general principles, and not with a
view to individual feeling or to individual caprice. He
hoped the day was not fas ilisoint when some plan would
be devised for preventing he greatest evil under which
Ireland laboured—the evil or pauperism. Gentlemen might
talk of educstiou and of Catholic emancipation as the most
important subjects that affected the welfare of Ireland : but
he would say, that the extinction of pauperism was of more
- importance than the extension of the one or the granting of
the ce.her. Until the Legislature took some means to give
the people of Ireland food and raiment, all other ,measures
would be unavailing, either for tranquillizing or civilizing
Ireland.

Mr. C. GRANT did not know what the opinion of his
Right Hon. Friend (Mr. W. Lamb) was on this subject,
or whether he had made up his mind as to the course he
ultimately meant to pursue, but he was persuaded that the
subject would meet with all the attention which its im-
portance deserved. The Noble Lord (Milton) had argued
that a Government ought not to be charitable. It ought
not to be indiscriminately so. No doubt could however
exist, but that it was bound to give charity, when that
charity, going through proper channels, was beneficial to
the State. There were, he admitted, in those estimates,
some items which were objectionable, in point of principle,
still he felt the difficulty of dealing with those subjects in
detail, even where the principle was wrong. Some of the
institutions which were annually provided for were alike
condemned by all parties, both in principle and practice.
The principles on which they were founded were false and
hollow, and the practice, with few exceptions, was cor-
rupt and pernicious. He, however, looked forward to an
amelioration of the whole system ; for he was sure that an
assembly, constituted as that House was, must, more and
more, fed tiecnly interested with the importance of all sub-
jects connected with the welfare of Ireland.—(Hear.)—
Mr. GOULBURN stated, that the present were the
lowest estimates ever presented to the House. He thought
that any Gentleman who would take the trouble of con-
trasting the estimates of former years with those of the
present year, would see that there was no ground for
charging the Government of Ireland either with extrava-
gance or with a want of due consideration for the situa-
tion of the country. When be first became connected
with the Irish Government about five years ago, he had an
objection to these grants upon principle. He therefore de-
termined to examine very closely into the propriety of
them when he went over to Ireland ; and he now informed
the House, that ais examination cone ;;iced him, that con-
sidering the peeuliar circumstances of Ireland, they were
quite indispensable. They bad been of the greatest ser-
vice in conciliating the feelings of the lower orders in Ire-
land to the Government of this country.
Mr. C. GRANT, in explanation, said it was far f:oni
his wish and intention to throw, by the observations he
made, any reflection on the Right Hon. Gentleman, or the
Government of Ireland.
Mr. GOULBURN said that he did understand the Right
Honourable Gentleman to say that the grants lately were
marked by peculiar extravagance.
Mr. MO', CK was convinced that Ireland as a country
would never be comparable to England, until provided
with a system, if not entirely similar, at least something
like to our poor laws. He wished these institutions to be
supported, but not at the expence of England.
Mr. BARING was of opinion that it would be injuri-
ous to refuse the present grants.
Mr. 31. FITZGERALD protested against the sweeping
censure applied to these grants.
Mr. J. GRATTAN contended that the House was
hound by the act of Union to continue the grants to these
Institutions.
Mr. HUME said, that though he hall no disposition to
break faith with the Irish people, he must still remind the
House, that the bargain which we had made with them at
the time of the Union, was only to continue the grants to
their charitable institutions for the first 20 years from that
time. That period had now expired, and the bargain had
been fulfilled to the letter.
Sir J. NEWPORT rose to caution his Right Hon.
Friend, the Secretary fur Ireland, against the practice of
making prospective engagements for these institutions, and
of subsequently calling upon Parliament to sanction them,
because they had been made.
Mr. W. LAMB thanked the Committee for the forbear.
ance hitherto shown bim. He had submitted the present
estimates to the Committee, as they had been originally
framed, because be had not had time, since his accession
to office, to make any inquiry into their propriety. As to
any reduction of them in a future year, he would not at
present give any pledge. In answer to the Noble Mem-
ber for Limerick, who had asked him what the Govern-
ment intended to do with regard to the reports which had
been received from the Commissioners of Education, he
could merely say, that he believed that it was the inten-
tion of Government to have them speedily taken into con-
sideration. He would not pledge himself as to the mode
in which it would be done, though he thought that the

mode which the Hon. Gentleman had suggested would
perhaps be found most prudent.
After a few words from Mr. Huns and Mr. Goon-
ittax, the resolution was carried.
The next grant was 9,0001. for the Association for Dia-
countenancing Vice.
Mr. HUME.—This is the largest grant which has been
proposed for this institution since its formation. So much
for the vaunted economy of Government ! Here is a sum
of 2,4001. proposed for bibles and prayer books in one
year.—(Hear.)
The grant was agreed to.
On the proposal of the grant of 34,000/. for the Found-
ling Hospital in Dublin,
Mr. G. DAWSON rose to observe, that this institution
had cost the country 984,449/. since. the Union ; and it
.was worth while to consider the purpose for which it had
been expended. It was expended for nn other purpose than
the maintenance of the children which were sent to it, not
only from all parts of Ireland, but alsts from the western
parts of England and Wales. He knew that there had
been latge importations of children from Wales into Ire-
land, in order that they might be nourished at the public
expense in this institution. From June, 1796, to June,
1826. the children admitted into this institution were about
52,150. The Committee would be surprised to hear that
out of this number 14,613 had died in the hospital ; 25,859
had been returned dead from the places to which they had
been sent for nourishment in the country ; 730 had died after
they had returned from the nurses ; and 322 had died when
they were grown children t so that the number of deaths
out of these 52,000 children, was 41,529. If an institu-
tion which had produced such results were allowed to con-
tinue in existence, what institution could the House ever
pretend to put down hereafter?—(Hear)—He understood
that there was a I-ranch of this hospital established at
Limerick, and that it was conducted upon principles ex-
actly the same as those which were pursued in the estab-
lishment of Dublin. He was informed that in the last year
70 children had been admitted into it, and that out of that
number no less than 41 had died. This statement pre-
sented something so appalling to his mind, that he could
not allow the system to proceed any longer without soma
examination. 'Great evil must arise from the continuance
of it ; and he was glad to say, that that result was so ap-
parent, that Parliament had interfere,! to put a check to it.
He had prepared a Bill to assimilate the law of Ireland to
that of England for the maintenance of infant children ;
and he was willing to communicate it to the Honourable
Secretary for Ireland for his approval. As the law at pre-
sent stood, it was an encouragement to infanticide : it was
therefore incumbent on the House to find out some remedy
by which the waste of human life could be spared.
Mr. LESLIE FOSTER agreed with his Hon. Friend
in many of the remarks which he had made upon this in-
stitution, but could not allow a waste of human life to be
charged upon those who had the management of it. Be-
sides the 10,000 children whom his Hon. Friend admitted
to have survived out of the 50,000 admitted into this
institution, there were a number of others, officially re-
turned dead, who were now living and grown up to man-
hood.—(A laugh.)—He recommended that the children
reared in these establishments should, after they had arrived
at a suitable age, be sent to New Brunswick, where there
was at present a voracious demand for apprentices.

Mr. GOULBURN defended this institution at consider-
able length.
Mr. S. RICE contended, that to continue this hospital
would be to establish infanticide by Act of Parliament.
Mr. HUME was glad to find that the Hon. Member
for Derry was nol•' likely to become a very useful auxiliary
to him in examining the estimates. He thought that after
the present day a stoppage would be put to the reception
of children into this hospital. He morel an amendment
to that effect.—(The amendment was declared to be infor-
mal in the committee, and was therefore abandoned by
the Hon. Proposer of it.)
Mr. W. LAMB declarer! himself much disposed to ac-
cede to the principle laid down by the Hon. Member fur
Derry; but wished not to act with precipitation in a case
where the feelings and prejudices of the people were so
strong. He therefore, requested the Hon. Gentleman op-
posite to give him time for further considering this interes-
ting subject.
A conversation ensued, in which Mr. DAwsoN and Mr.
GOULBURN mutually reiterated their former statements.

Mr. GOULBURN at last said, that he must, for the
fifth time, contradict the statements put forth by his Hon.
Friend on this subject.
The grant was then agreed to.
On the proposal of a grant of 8,9281. for the College of
Maynooth,
Mr. MOORE asked whether the Commissioners of
Education intended to present any report on the College of
Maynooth. Their commission eznired on the 14th June.
He understood they had collected a vast mass of evidence
on the subject : would they be able to report upon it ?

Mr. F. LEWIS believed that the Commissioners would
be able to report upon it ; if they should not be able, they
would take care that the evidence which they had collected
should be laid before the House.--The grant was agreed to.
The other items of the estimates were then agreed to.

Mr. HERRIES then moved the following estimates for
the army extraordinarie.s
£850,000 for defraying the extraordinary expences of
the army.
£449,839 for defraying the charges of the Commissariat
Department.
£593,200 to pay off Exchequer Bills, issued under the
Acts passed for carrying on public works, and for building
additional churches.

These resolutions were agreed to, and ordered to be re-
ported to the House.
The House resumed, when the report was ordered to
be received on Monday next.
LARCENY LAWS CONSOLIDATION BILL.

Mr. PEEL moved the Order of the Day for the House
to resolve itself into a Committee en the Larceny Laws
Consolidation Bill.

The House resumed, the report was forthwith received,
and ordered to be taken into further consideration on Wed-
nesday next.
The Malicious Injuries Bill was also passed through a
Committee.

The remedies against the Hundred Bill was postponed
until Wednesday next.
The other Orders of the day were disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter-past One o'clock.

LORD AND LADY WELLESLEY.

(From a New York Paper.)

Of the numerous tokens presented to distinguished in-
dividuals on the occasion of the celebration of the comple-
tion of the canals, one was forwarded to the YsTarquis Wel-
lesley, for his consort, our countrywoman, the Marchio-
ness. The following is a copy of the correspondence which
took place :

" New York, Nor. SO, 1826.

" My Lord,—The Corporation of the city of New
York, desirous of commemorating the completion of the
grand canal which unites the Western Lakes with the
Atlantic Ocean, have directed that medals he struck, and
a memoir be published, deseriptive of that splendid event.
" I have the honour, by direction of the Committee of
the Corporation, to transmit to you a silver medal, and a
copy of Mr. Colden's Memoir, with a reruest that you
would be pleased to present the same to your illustrious
consort, who is connected with our country by the most
endearing ties ; and wl.ose exalted virtues and eminent ac-
complishments have served to elevate the American name
to the highest rank in a distant land ; and, I may be per-
mitted to add, who has an hereditary claim to our respect
and regard, as the descendant of a most distinguished and
venerated citizen, the last surviving member of the illus-
trious Congress of 1776.
" I have the honour-to be,
" My Lord, with the highest respect,
" Your Lordship's most obedient servant,
" CAMPBELL P. WHITE.
" To his Excellency Marquis Wellesley."

" Phoenix-park, February 27, 1827.

" Sir,—The completion of the great work happily ef-
fected by the genius, spirit, and perseverance of your fel-
low-citizens, is an event worthy of the public celebration,
and honourable record by which it has been recommended.
" I accept as a distinguished favour, the duty which the
Corporation of the city of New York has been pleased to
assign to me ; and, participating in the honour which you
have conferred on a person so dear to me, I return our
united acknowledgments of gratitude and respect. You
may be assured that of all the virtues and excellent qualities
of that person, none are more highly estimated by me, than
her true affection for her native country, and her unabated
attachment to her family, especially to that most eminent
and dignified citizen of the United States, so Justly the
general object of private and public esteem and veneration.
With these sentiments, we jointly offer our most sincere
congratulations on the auspicious event to which your
letter refers; adding our anxious and cordial wishes, that
it may prove the source of increasing affluence, happiness,
and prosperity, to the people of the United States.
" I have the honour to be, with great respect,
" Sir, your most obedient servant,
" WELLESLEY.
" To Campbell P. White, Esq."

LONDON,
SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 26, 1827.

The glorious majority of last night in the House
of Lards surpassed our most sangt: expectation.
Even in the fancied strong hold of the enemy, and
on the very subject where they expected bigotry
and selfishness to stand firm in their support, the
Ultras have madly ventured to chew their strength,
and the result was a majority of 57 in favour of the
Government—the numbers being 120 to 63, or nearly
two to one.

This event is most satisfactory, not only as prov-
ing beyond a doubt the strength of the new Mi-
nistry, but as fraught with infinite benefit to the
Agricultural and Manufacturing interests, the two
great bodies composing this empire, comprehending
even the Catholics, that fractional portion of only
one-third ! of which the Orangeman loses sight,
when he professes his exclusive devotion for Church
and State.

The new Corn Bill promises to do all that the
limited reason of man can effect in preventing those
violent fluctuations which have so often brought
distress and ruin on our country. It holds out to
the Farmer a prospect of such a fixed price for his
produce, that in entering into new engagements he
may proceed on reasonable calculation, and not act
the part of a gambler, uncertain whether the quarter
of wheat may be 40s. or 120 s. To the Manufac-
turer it affords the expectation of having the neces-
saries of life at the lowest price which is consistent
with national faith and the prosperity of his best
customer—the Agriculturist. For in these days
of the " march of intellect," many of the Op'ratives
must be aware, that had the new Corn Bill pointed at
30s. instead of 605., as the average price of wheat, the
certain and inevitable increase of marriages and of the
population, not to talk of the additional importations
from unhappy Ireland, would have very soon brought
us back to the position which we now occupy, that is
a population always trespassing on the extreme limits
of the supply of food, and a consequent lowness of
wages and severity of labour. In the meantime, their
best friends, the Agriculturists, would have been
utterly ruined, and a national bankruptcy could
scarcely have been avoided. Now, instead of
being exposed to the peril of trusting for food to
other nations, by which system the mightiest
empires have been ruined—we shall make the su-
perabundance of other countries steady the prices of
our own produce, to which, by-the-bye, foreign im-
portation never has borne but the most insignifi-
cant proportion. With something like a fixed
price for food, and with a bullion currency,
(though that currency has been refined at a fearful
cost of individual happiness), we shall now proceed
more steadily, if not so brilliantly, as we might, (for -a
short time,) with a paper currency and un unlimited
importation of foreign corn.
In the House of Commons, Sir T. LETHBRIDGE
made another exhibition of himself. We have
heard an Irish translation of semper cadent,
worse and worse, which applies admirably to the ,
worthy Baronet's discourses. But have none of his ,
friends sufficient influence with the Honourable
Member to put a stop to this absurdity? It is really
quite humbling. He keeps the House in a rear of
laughter from beginning to end, not with, but at
him, a distinction which is too fine for some intel-
lects to comprehsnd.
Lord SANDON put the following puzzling question
to Lord CASTLEREAGH :—" He could not understand
how the Noble Lord (CASTLEREAGH), or any man
who was favourable to the Catholic Claims, could
oppose the present Government. The obstacle al-
luded to was not created by them—(Cheers);—
and he would ask whether it was more likely
that this obstacle would be diminished by op-
posing the Government ?—(Loud cheers.)"
In short, we hope that all good and loyal subjects
have had their spirits raised as ours have been by
the events of last night. The splendid majority in

the Lords, has assured us of what we ardently hoped
and confidently expected; namely, that the Admi-
nistration of the Right HOD. GEORGE CANNING
will be as powerful and as popular as any which
has ever directed the Councils of Britain.

We have received the Paris Papers of Wednes-
day, and the Etoilc dated Thursday morning. In
the latter we find an interesting article from Con-
stantinople, dated the 25th April. SAIDA EFFENDI,
lately REIS EFFENDI, died on the 20th, suddenly ;
his death is said to have been occasioned by apo-
plexy, but it is more probable that it was the effect
of that malady which produces so many sudden
deaths in the Turkish Empire. It appears that
2,000 Albanians had landed on the Greek island of
Imbros, and not content with plundering several
villages, and exacting a large contribution from the
inhabitants, carried off many of the women and
children.

The Quotidiennc has various reports from Lisbon,
none of which deserve much credit. One of the
reports is, that the illness of the INFANTA REGENT,
was occasioned by poison, administered to her by the
Constitutionalists, in consequence of the detection of
a plot in which she had engaged with the Queen
Dowager, for the overthrow,of the Constitution.
FRENCH FUNDS, MAY 23. •

Five per cents. I OQI". 40c. 35c. ; Three per Cent 6. 70f.
Ssc. ; Bank Stock 2022 f. 30c. ; Rentcs de Naples, 77f.
60c. 65c. 50c.

EXCHANGE ON LONDON.
One month, paper, 25f. 4.24 c. ; Money, 25f. 40e.;
lirce ditto, parer, 25f. 274 c. ; Money, 25f. 25c.

Mexican Papers to the Ist instant have been re-
ceived, but their contents are entirely uninteresting,
except to those who have either to pay money to

that Government on account of loans contracted for,
or to receive money in the shape of dividends on
Mexican Stock. The complaints against the con-
duct of the former appezr as strong in Mexico as
those of the people of this country at the non-re-
ceipt of remittances from thence.

Frankfort Papers and the Allgemeine Zeitung to
the 20th inst. have been received this morning.—
The following is the only paragraph worth extract-
ing :

TRIESTE, MAY 12.

The Captain of a ship which has arrived in 16 days,
brings word that Lord Cochrane was still at Napoli di Ro-
mania engaged in equipping a strong division which was
supposed to be destined against Alexandria. The same
Captain, who touched at Zante a week ago, heard that
thirty Turkish transports with ammunition and provisions,
had arrived tt Motion. The Greeks continued to fight
bravely before Athens, and are said to have gained some ad-
vantages.
VIENNA, MAY 14.—Metalliques, 90k; Bank Shares,
1088.

THE FUNDS-(THIS DAY).

CITY, Twelve o' Clock.

The settling day in the English Stocks having passed
over without any mischief, to-day, as usual, is the day for
paying the various balances. Immediately after the com-
mencement of business a few transactions took place in
Consols, but they have since, however, been very stagnant,
and scarcely any thing is doing. Consols opened at 83i 1
for money, and 83 for account, since which there has
been no variation except their advancing to 831
Three per Cent. Coneols, 831 ; Ditto for account,
831; India Bonds, 79 SO pm. ; Exchequer Bills, 52 3 pm.
Fourtow.—Brazilian, 571 ; Buenos Ayres, 59 60 ;
Chilian, 30 2 ; Colombian, 311 ;
_Danish, 61 ;__Greek,
•

16: 4 ; Mexican, Five per Cent:, 56 7 ; Ditto; Six per
Cent., 69i ; Peruvian, 26 8 ; Portuguese, 77 ;
Russian, 91/ 2 ; Spanish, 12/
MlNEs.—Anglo Mexican, 50 45 die. ; Brazilian, 2 1
die. ;- Colombian, 10 12 per Share ; Real del Monte, 50
30 die. ; Tlalpuxahua, 60 40 dis. ; United Mexican, 17/
16/ dis. ; Bolanos, 80 60 die.
[A Correspondent informs us that our information wn,.
not quite accurate yesterday regarding the Tlalpuxahua
Mining Company. Some individuals may view its pros-
pects with suapicion' w but that as not the opinion of those
best acquainted with
the concern.]

Two o' Clock.

Consols are 83i i for money, and 831 i for account,
with scarcely any thing doing ; Colombian Bonds, 311 i ;
Mexican, 68 1.