The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-15 00:00:00

PERIA L PA RLIAMENT

(THIS DAY.)

ROUSE OF COMMONS.
A House was made a few minutes after Twelve o'Clock.
PROCEEDINGS OF THE HOUSE.
Lord DUNCAN inquired what time the Lord-Advocate
would bring on the Scotch Poor-law Bill.
pa st two
The LORD-ADVOCATE said that he thought about half-
, but the hour was to him a matter of indifference.
order Lord ASHLEY said that the Lunacy Bill was first in the
of the day.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that he should certainly object to
the Lunacy Bill, which had been adopted by the Government,
In the absence of all the Ministers of the Crown.
Lord ASHLEY said that the presence of the Ministers was
not necessary.
Mr. WAKLEY said that he should certainly okect to the
Scotch Poor-law Bill being considered to-day, and he thought
that the Scotch Members ought to be very careful how they
thpwed such a Bill to pass into a law. It was a Bill for any-
ing but the relief of the poor.
The Bill was then postponed for the present.
The Borough Rates and Watch Bill was read a third time
and passed.
% the
On tlae order of the day, that the House go into Committee

TURNPIKE ACTS BILL,
t erda Mr. DICKINSON said that he wa3 surprised to learn, yes-
beenY i, the prognorant of gress
its p roc whieeding, hech this Billshould have objected to had made, for, had he
itnot
.
The bill then went through Committee.
LOAN SOCIETIES BILL.
time. passed Bill passed through Committee, and was read a third

SCOTCH POOR-LAW.
t Mr. WAKLEY, seeing the Right Hon. Baronet the Seere-
tall of State for the Home Department in the House, wished
to know when the Scotch Poor-law Bill -
sc
, J. GRAHAM said he would answer the question if the
'"n• Member would tll him what time the previous business
would occupy.

HIGHWAY RATES BILL.
This toll went through Committee, and was ordered to be
read a third time to-morrow.
PAUPER LUNATICS ASYLUM BILL.
i3;r: the motion that the House go into Committee on this
DUNCOMBEMr.
objected to any further progress of this
Bill until the amendments which hat been, or which it was
pp to introduce into the Bill, had been printed and
"'tided to the Members.
1,4 r. WAKLEY also objected to proceeding with the Bill,
_, said that it would only take the printers four, or at most
llaAhourb to supply copies to the Members.
named John
presented a petition from a person
.....Teod John Miller, of Camden Town, complaining of unjust
PPressive treatment.
saosa DUNCAN said that as it was evident that considerable
s,_acussion would ensue on the Bill before the House, it would
_7"bpossible to take the Scotch Poor-law Bill to-day, and he
wished to know what the Government intended to do ?
tir 3A•AlltsS GRA HAM said that he would state when the
elai,shnweesotLeiilobrueesetpaken at five o'clock to-day.
aths,eend. went into Committee, and the two first
"e Proposition of the third clause,
r. T. DUNCOMBE said that this clause had better be
ii7tPoned until they had got the returns from the inspectors in
b:ta„eY, of the cost of visiting the several houses and their state ;
,‘els was a part of the plan of keeping the House in the dark.
litzora ASHLEY said that the only return not before the
.se was that of the amount paid to each commissioner.
Sir c.
NAPIER said that before be received his half-pay
tlei;ireasho,7b..yliged to make' a declaration and he did not see why
L. 7.7: gentlemen should not be subjected to the same test
received their salaries.
L • 'SN' Ali BURTON saw no use in the declaration.
24f6A;rradvseauSinHaLEY said that the treasurer's accounts were a
the eieot guarantee of the rectitude of the payments, and for
expenses there was also sufficient evidence.
paasrs' T. DUNCUMBE then moved that the clause be post-
the They ought to have paid commissioners, responsible to
4,,s_siovernrnent and the country, and not men who were. part
b•"olZurs and part professional, and who were responsible to.
Nolo Y. In the petitions presented the other day by his
at e Friend, it was po,itively stated that there was no means
catraa certaining what had been done. Mr. Percival had not
complained of the Commissioners, but there had been great
natter' from those who had suffered ; and in Mr.. Pater-
the " case there was a great injustice committed, and
personesult was always against the prisoner. The
13r complaining had no chance whatever of redress.
e they passed this clause, which made the Commission
ttiobeane.nt, they ought to hare evidence that the Com
sa(l poshad hitherto done their duty. He asserted that they
He thought they ought to see if they could not have
bas ,;" Commission formed than at present existed. He would
wsurre's his motion for the postponment of the clause, but
pearcieirdvaticilayl l upon the Chairman to read the clause at length.
Re, r' V. SMITH defended the conduct of the Commissioners
, and especially with respect to the case of Mr.
kr. C inda • HRISTIE trusted the Noble Lord would not only be
Slot art to reconsider the present clause, but the effect of the
jb r saotogether. He was sorry that his Hon. Friend the Mem-
autter Finsbury had withdrawn his motion for postponing the
NVAKLEY felt convinced that the present Commission
ty_ 'e never work well.--( Hear, hear.) He objected
74 to three Commissioners, believing that one Corn-
rotssione
Sarh. rs who should be responsible to the Home,office
cs, Is actions would do more good than three or even eleven
Srotuissioners, of which the present Commission was formed.
th
Roo °light that amateur Commissioners could never do that
do, d •rl. the public that one properly paid Commisusrieolnyemental
at had been t aid that insanity wast rain p
lbaleadahe asserted that •n e cases out
Zitilin it arose from disease. There was no case of insanity
out structural derangement. He trusted that the Noble
°ll would reconsider the clause with reference to the Com-
wo Missioners, as he thought it might be framed in a manner that
Sir uld operate far more beneficially for the public.
C NAPIER hoped the Noble Lard would reconsider
the clause. He considered that an unpaid Board was not so
Rood as a paid one.
Lord ASHLEY denied that unpaid Commissioners were not
so competent to perform their duties as paid ones. For him-
self, he would say that when he entered the Commission, he
did to with a determination to do his duty, and he
considered himself as responsible for the performance of those
duties as if he he had been paid a hundred guineas a visit.
m
As to the statement of the Hon. AI
her for Finsbury, thatr
one Commissioner would be sufficient, heindividual
to without fear
of contradiction, that it would be impossible fur one
to perform the onerous duties.
Mr. WARBURTON agreed with the Hon. Member for
Finsbury, that paid Commissioners were better than unpaid
ones; but, at the same time, he thought there should be un-
Paid gentlemen connected with the Commission, who would
represent persons of moderate fortunes, who were afflicted
with insanity.
_Mr. HAWES preferred a mixed Board to one constituted
of paid or of unpaid Commissioners alone.
Sir J. GRAHAM was anxious that the Commissioners
named in the clause should be continued in the Commission.
!RaThe CHAIRMAN then prscveded to read the clause, pro-
sing that Lord Ashley and several other gentlemen should
'otln the Commission, when
taker. T. Up NCONI BE rose and said it was his intention to
tthe sense of the House upon an amendment which he should
ra"rse, to the effect that those gentlemen whom he called the
missionour Commissioners should be excluded from the Corn-
.
neat.
.Mr V. SMITH opposed the amendment, and contended that
bail) ad vantage resulted to the public from the Commission
Phlteeinposed in part of unpaid,
or, as the Hon. Member for
at a grY called them, amateur Commissioners. They acted
the sQrt of check upon the paid Commissioners, and caused
Sirot to perform their duties with fidelity.
the AMES GRAHAM would oppose the amendment of
has bee• Member for Finsbury on public grounds. If what
duty, n termed the amateur commission did not do their
is the Government would have the power of removing them.
11041:att INGLIS advocated the appointment of the Commis-
. Air and
the amendment.
tise. '
,A.KLEY thought the Commission would be
thoseineffec-
as ueY would have if it were appointed, the same results
Art*, which had eman;ted from the Commission on the Fine
*, which was an amateur Commission.