The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-14 00:00:00

report.
Lord ROSSLYN, in accordance with the notice he gave
yesterday, moved that their Lordships should register with
the clerk their petitions, and should in rotation be called
up to bring them forward by the clerk.
The resolution was put by the Loan CHANCELLOR and
agreed to.
Lord TORRINGTON presented a petition fro'n the
inhabitants of Maidstone.
Sir ALEXANDER GRANT and others brought up ae

Army Supply and Naturalization Bill.
The Bishop of BATH and WELLS presented two
petitions against the Catholics.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from
Horsham, and three other places, against the Catholics.
The Duke of DEVONSHIRE presented two petitions
from the town and county of Derby, in favour of Catholic
emancipation.
The Marquis of CARNARVON resented several peti-
tions, praying for the removal of Catholic disabilities.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, in rising to present a
petition from the Catholics of Ireland, spoke sotnewhat as
follows —I have, my Lords, on former occasions, given
notice of the day when I meant to present a petition front
the Catholics of Ireland ; and not expecting yesterday that
I should have it in my own power, I commissioned a
Noble Friend of mine to give notice of my intention to pre-
sent such a petition to-day, and I now rise, my Lords,
to call your Lordship? attention to such petition, not now
presented for the first, but I earnestly hope, my Lords, for
the last time. I cannot, when I consider the great
names of the persons who formerly were honoured with
the trust which on this and other occasions has been re-
posed in me, and with have presented similar petitions to
this and the other House of Parliament—persons who are
now laid low in the dust, or, from lees of health, are no
longer part of the active public cannot, when I con-
sider the illustrious names which for many years supported
this cause, but feel the extent to which it is indebted to
their exertions and talents, and cannot but esteem myself
fortunate in possessing this trust, under auspices far more
favourable for making this appeal than any under which it was
ever before made. I also consider it, my Lords, fortunate that
I am entitled to state, in presenting this petition, a fact
which is well known to such of your Lordships as are ac-
quainted with Ireland—that the great majority of his Ma-
jesty's Catholic subjects in Ireland, who are represented by
the twenty or thirty thousand persons who have signed thifa
petition, are in such a state of perfect tranquillity and obe-
dience to the laws, as to make them fit recipients for the
liberty Parliament is, I hope, about to bestow on them.
Even that Association, my Lords, of which we have heard
so much on this and former occasions—the merits or de-
merits of which I do not mean to questionthat Association
which is what I must ever consider, ;if not the lawful pro-
geny, yet as the natural offspring of our own erchisive laws
—even the Catholic Association, in ready obeciiente to the
wishes of the Parliament and Government, stands disgetivedt
and the great body of the people are in a state becomin::',' in
them to receive, and in Parliament to give the boon of s -
mittance into the Constitution. In calling your Lordships'
attention to the conduct of the petitioners, who come be-
fore you, 1 hope, in this capacity for the last time, it will
not be improper if I observe, that during the period—and
it is now nearly 30 years—in which petitions have been
presented on this subject in vain, very material changes
have taken place in the situation and condition of the
Catholics in that country. Within the period of thirty
years, during which the whole population of the country
had considerably increased, the number of Roman Catho-
lics in Ireland has increased upwards of two millions; and
though I do not say that the mere increase of popula-
tion should not entitle the people to more consideration
from your Lordships, and should not entitle them to
a share in the administration of the country, yet
the circumstance which gives weight to the claims of the
Roman Catholics is of less importance than the fact, that

in proportion as they have increased in numbers, they have
been improved in education, and have increased in wealtil
and have increased in all those qualities which would make
it advantageous to themselves and to the rest of the coin—
. . .

munity, for them to participate in all the benefits of the
Constitution. With respect to the increase of wealth with
that of population, I am not able to lay before your Lord-
ships any very precise information ; yet it must be knowts,
to many of your Lordships, and there is not a solicitor in
Ireland who has any thing to do with landed property
who will not say that in every county in Ireland,
more particularly in the southern counties, all the pro-
perty of the smaller land-proprietors is in the hands
of the Catholics, and whenever it comes into the
market is bought by Catholics. Of the increase in
money property, some idea may be funned from the
fact, that thirty years ago, not above ten Catholics held
stock to the amount of 2000/. and that at present there are
upwards of eighty who hold that amount of stock, malting
the proportionate increase, within the period of thirty
years, eight fold. As to education, my Lords, lam en-
titled to say that I have more precise information, and I

call your Lordships' attention to the remarkable increasa
which has taken place in that within from twenty to thirty
years. My Lords, according to Parliamentary returns,
the number of children at school in Ireland, and for whom
their parents paid, in 1811, was 55,000 Protestants, and
145,000 Catholics; in 1824 the number of Protestant
children at school was 81,060, and the number of Catho-
lics was 319,280; so that the Catholic children who, in
1811, were as two and a half to one Protestant, were in
1824 as four to one. I draw this information, My Lords,
from the Reports of the Commissioners appointed to inquire
into education in Ireland ; and they state that in 1824 the
whole number of scholars, including those whose parents
paid for them, was 142,162 Protestants, and 421,023
Roman Catholics. It is a fact, then, my Lords, which
results from these inquiries—and I can state it with confi-
dence, as a point most proper to lay before your Lordships
—that as the Roman Catholics have increased in numbers,
they have also increased in all those qualifications which
education gives, and which are likely to make theta
useful to their country, as well as to love it for its gene-
rous advantages. I should be unwilling, however, my
Lords, to stop here, as I am still able to lay before your
Lordships some information on a most important point.
I have great satisfaction, my. Lords, in also stating, that
with the increased population—though this may seem
most strange to some persons—that obedience to the laws
and morality have increased ; and that in these two points
the people of Ireland will justify a comparison with the po-
pulation of any State in Europe. I may, perhaps, surprise
your Lordships, when I assert that there is a less propor-
tion of crime in Ireland than in England ; and, extraordi-
nary as this may appear to your Lordships, I have known
the fact for some time. I obtained it from various sources,
but I was induced, on the present occasion, to make par-
ticular inquiries, and found the advantage in favour of
Ireland exists in a degree beyond that which I had reason
to expect, and which must afford a great satisfaction to
yooi
autr
IL oprodssslie isps ed. e
mshena ltsl sttoa tse onlyuppe the results,rtthe pro
assertions
ntti!siatni
make. have been able to compare only a part of
Ireland with the whole of England, for I have not been
able to find returns for more than 25 counties of Ireland,
though equal returns are made from every county of
England. Taking these 25 counties, then, which in-
clude the most disturbed districts of Ireland, and counties
parienrge tthhee Rp
roempaenr t
ien
ef Catholicseri rees mt
eo spt
the raeinv alouenn, ttofandp ic)ounl -a-
tion, I find that the criminal indictments were 3,027, for
a population of 4,676,000, or they are somewhat less than
one to every 1,500 of the population. Comparing this
with the number of persons charged with crimes in Eng-
land and Wales, I find that number is 16,564 in a popula-
tion of 12,219,500, or about one to every 750 persons.
In Ireland, the number of criminal indictments is as one
to 1,500 persons ; and in England and Wales, the persons
charged with crimes are as one to 750. I feel great satis-
faction in stating this, as it may re-assure those persons
in this country who are led by their imagination to con-
ceive, that where Roman Catholics are the citizens of a
country there is nothing but persecution, bloodshed, and
crime; and who, under the influence of this infatuation,
refuse to believe that the present condition of Ireland is
any other than that of lawless crime. For the facts I have
stated, my Lords, I refer to Parliamentary Returns, and they
exhibit Ireland, in comparison with England, as in a state of
superior morality. If your Lordships, therefore, should con-
sider, as I hope you will, that it is proper to grant the con-
, cessions for which the petitioners pray, your Lordships
will never find the people in a more favourable condition
to receive those advantages they ask for. Having stat-
ed thus much, my Lords, recommending the petition to
your Lordships, I am unwilling to trespass further on
your Lordships than to state that you will be shortly
called upon to consider for this portion of his Majesty's
subjects, whether you will allow all this population, wealth,
and intelligence, to grow on in life and strength, selfish
and detached, seeking its own advantages on its own ac•-
, count, and in its own way ; or will seek to fix their at-
tention on the empire, inseparably uniting them with the
rest of the people, and embodying them in one connected
whole, by allowing them to receive the life-blood of the
I Constitution, which gives-strength and harmony to All:

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