The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-27 00:00:00

etlasses bad improved in their circumstances since the present
Government came into office ?—( Hear, hear.) He would
a k, what was the condition of the manufacturing districts
when the present Government took office ? Look to the state
-of Paisley, in 1842.—(Hear, hear.) Look to the condition
of Stockport at the same period.—( Hear, hear.) He
then read extracts from the reports of the inspector
of factories at Stockport, to show, that the manu-
facturers of that place were then in a state of the
greeteet distress, that the works were almost all closed, and the
opera,tivea thronging the streets in a starving condition. Mr.
ft'auadlers, an inspector of the woollen district of Yorkshire,
ma, le a statement from which it appeared, that in 1838, the
nurniDeer of 54,000 persons, of all ages, were employed in ',the
fact *cies. In those factories there were now employed
114 "000, slowing an increase of 38 per cent. of persons of all
age a. The reports of the manufacturing districts in Scotland
and :Ireland were at least as satisfactory, and there were in some
dist r lets a want of hands. He (Sir J. Graham) had there also
SOU 4 individual cases represented to him by Mr. Clements,
an A ssistant-Poor-law Commissioner, which he would not read,
the n igh thelear of delaying the House. He (Mr. Clements)
stet e .1 that in one manufactory in his district, the
DORA; leer of labourers who worked for thirty days
dur a tg the five weeks ending the 3d of May, 1845,
rec ei red 3641., while the same number, who worked nineteen
dal s daring the five weeks ending the 3d of April, 1842, re-
cei N .d 216/., making a difference of 1381. A master-mason
to & him (Sir. Clements), that during the distress of 1841
an, i J 842 he would gladly accept employment at two shillings
a r lite, but that now he was getting three shillings and seven-
pe. tie e per day, and that, if he chose to leave his present
net at er, he could receive four shillings per day. He (Mr.
st aents) further stated that they could now get anything
tilt., liked to ask for. He then dilated on the relative condi-
ti a of the operatives, and how it depended upon the price of
trios necestaries of life. He (Sir James Graham) wished to
a' wee the House that upon the point of the extent of
w 'gee in the manufacturing districts, he instituted the most
exit fat inquiry, and he held in his hand an account
of.•the wages of the various departments of labour, and princi-
ally of the skilful labourers in Liverpool, Sheffield, Leeds,
t;ewcastle-on-Tyne, and Manchester, comprising six years,
vhien stated the annual average of wages in 1845 was as high
as that of any of the five antecedent years ; and, on the whole,
with the exception of one or two towns, it was higher than in
any of the previous years. He would read to the House the
aeooent frpm Newcastle-on-Tyne, which stated that the
wages of labourers had been on the increase, and that the
workmen were generallly employed. It stated that in 1841,
1842, and 1843, the trade was bad, but that it revived in 1844 ;
and the most of the trade prices given for work had advanced.
In Liverpool it said that in the years from 1840 to 1844, 1,000
workmen were oet of employment, and now that there were
scarcely safficient applications for work.D tering the last six weeks,
ending on the 19th of April, 1840, the wages paid in a certain
establishment then were 3031. ; in 1841, 395/. ; in 1842,2601.;
in 1e43, 282/. ; in 1844, 2901.; and in the six weeks ending
the 19th of April, 1845, that house_ paid to the same bands no
less than 6951.—( Hear, hear.) He (Sir J. Graham) said
that the amount of wages was not the only one ingredient in
the comparative comfort of the labouring classes ; they should
look also to the prices of the articles of the first necessity.
lie stated also that in the agricultural districts, so far from
there being a fall of wages, there had been an actual increase
in many counties. He would wish to call their attention to
the command that the same amount of labour had over the ne-
cessitiee of life compared with that of former years.
He was not one of those who denied that a bad bar-
vent was one cf the greatest curses that Provi-
clenoe could inflict, and that an abundant harvest was
are of the greatest blessings that it could bestow ; that all
h uman legislation was vain against the dispensations of Pro-
v ideas., and that all legislation was inoperative when compared
with the blessing of Providence ; but when he came to read to
ti teen the prices of the articles of the first necessaries he would
a saw that a great many of them had decreased during the pre-
s mit legislation. He would compare the present year with the
ricer of the year when the change of Government took place.
1 a the year 1841 the price of wheat was 645. per quarter, in
ths s present year the price was 465. per quarter. In 1811 the
pt.; ice of barley was 335. per quarter, it was now 325. 3d. per
qn utter. In 184 5 the price of oats was 21e. ltd., it was
so w 21s. 4d. The price of flour was 10id. per quertern,
its was now Bd. The price of oatmeal was 6d.
re r quarter, it was now 3d. The articles which he
yeas about to enumerate would not so much depend on the
suveste. The price of beef in 1841 was 7d. per lb. it was
tow fe;id. per lb. The price of mutton was 7d. per lb., and
tithin the last fourteen days it was 6d. per lb. The price of
lurk which was 7d. per lb. in le4l was now 6d. per lb. The
+rice of sugar which was 7d. per lb. in 1841 was now sd. per
1 b. The price of coffee which was 2s. in 1841 was now Is. 4d.
par lb. The price of currants which were 9d. per lb. was
-sew 6d. Candles were sold in 1841 at 7d. per lb. they were
stew sold at 6d. per lb. Ide could enumerate various
•ether articles, almost every one of which cones-
yandesi with those already referred to, and there
~as sot an increase in any one article. He thought
'fiat the Noble Lord did injustice to her Majesty's Government,
tend to the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of that Govern-
unent, when be referred to the measures which he had adopted,
with respect to the monetary system of this country. It was
most true that there was a large increase of the circulating
medium, but while there was a necessity of paying in gold,
their proeperity was decreased by the undue issue of paper,
payable no demand, which was not only evanescent, but was
atteeded with the most severe pressure upon all classes, and
anon none more than upon the labouring classes. In the year
1 e4l, the amount of bullion in the hands of the Bank of
keeiend was only 5,000,000/., and the amount of notes in
eircalatica was 16,4e0,000/. When he was now addressing
there, the amount of bullion is their hands was 16,009,000/.,
into-ad 5,000,000/., and the circulation in notes, instead of
feting 10,400,000/. was no less than 21,163,000/e and consequent
*epee the measure of last year, with reference to the Bank of
England, there Ives now a progress in the same res; ect in the
banks both of England and Ireland. Measures were taken
arias, the undue ten:elation of that year, and he believed that
they were going certain length,' with respect to the Bank of
Euglarei nhich would render that prosperity not only not
evanescent, but stable, and these measures were not only in
pinnate. hut had received their completion and had produced
tbe.r effects. Then let ham call attention to the state of spe-
relation iu this country, for it should be admitted that specu-
latioa had had great effect upon the state of the labouring popu-
lation in this country ; and the first class of speculation to which
he would call attention was the amount of capital that
had bee's embarked in railway speculations within the last four
yews. lee to the year 1841, there were laid down in this
vountry 2,345 miles of railroads, at a cost of 66,700,000/. ; in
the veer 1e44 there were 728 additional miles laid down, at an
additional cost of 10,400,0,0/. ; and during the present session
the (earl in of sew lines of rail amounted to 6,000 additional
miles, with a capital equal in amount to 80,000,000/. Last
year, the lines of railway which received the sanction of Par-
liament extended to an outlay of ten millions; and this year
it wee expected that the outlay ire the country upon rail-
roads tint should receive the sanction of the Legislature,
would amount to about 20,000,000/. Now, of course, a great
deal of this money would be expended in giving employment;
in fact, for many years to come it would give very extensive
employment. 'there was another matter in connexion with
this subject, to which he would beg to direct attention, in re-
fesenee to the state of the working classes—namely, the dimi-
nution of crime in England. He found, by returns that had
been laid before the House, a very considerable decrease in
the diminution of crime. He found that, in the year 1842,
there was a diminution of full 50 per cent. ; in 1843
it was still greater ; and the diminution of crimes of
an atrocious character was still more remarkable for
the last year.—( Hear.) Ho would next call attention
to the Report of the Poor-law Commissioners that had been
laid oa the table of the House this year, by which it appeared
that, as compared with last year, there was a diminution equal
to 20 per cent. as compared with the year 1843, of able bo-
died parsons relieved is the workhouses. With regard to what
the Noble Lord- had said about the law of settlement, he (Sir
J. Graham) begged to say that his opinion was in favour of
making birth the test of a right to settlement, though objec-
tions' might arise to the regulation the rural districts
which could not apply in manufacturing towns.
With reference to the Noble Lord's opinion upon emi-
gration, he (Sir James Graham) was rather at a loss
so understand the Noble Lord. The emigration to America
was a comparatively cheap and short voyage—it cost bte. 71.--
init there all the Crown lands in that country belonging to this
had been made ever to the local authorities, so that there was
not much to be expected by emigrants going to that country.
And as to Aus ralia, that voyage occupied five months, and
cost 191., while in Sydney there was at present such an excess
of labour that people were wandering about there unable to
get work, and therefore the Government should exercise
the utmost caution in recommending emigrants to that colony.
He had before him a table showing the emigration which had
takes place from the United Kingdom during the last ten
years. In 1141, 18,000 persons emigrated ; in 1842, 28,000 ;
1e43, 57,00 J; and in 1844, no less than 70,000 persons emi-
grated. Daring the first quarter of the present year, the emi-
grations from the Uaited Kingdom amounted to 13,507; the
number for the same period of last year. being 7,286. He now
cisme to another point on which the Noble Lord dwelt with
great earnestness and anxiety—he alluded to the means taken
fur the education of the working classes. He admitted with
the Noble Lord, that all efforts to improve the education of the
working classes, without attention being paid to the improve-
uncut of their physical condition, would be found useless and
unavailing. He was satisfied, that in the first instance they
oust pay attention Ise the improvement of the physical con-
dition of the working classes. Their physical condition being
improved, it became the duty of the Government to bestow the
utmost attention on their moral improvement. Had the Go-
veerement shown neglect in this respect ? In 1841, the annual
vote for education was 30,000/. ; in 1812, it was 40,000/. ;
and last year it was 70,0001. Since her Majesty's present
Government came into office, the sum of 10,009/.
had been granted to the National School Society,
1,000/. in aid of the Normal schools for train-
ing muter-, and the sum of 7501. had been granted to the
Foreign School Societies. The sum of 3,5001. had been
granted to a school at Chelsea, 3,5001. to a Normal school at
Basemen, and a further sum of 3,500/. granted to the diocesan
school of the West Riding of Yorkshire. The min of 9,0001.
had been granted to the General Assembly of Scotland for the
establishment of Normal schools at Glasgow and Edinburgh,
and generally speaking very laree advances—progressive ad-
vances—had been made for the foundation of schools in Great
Eritain. No less a sum than 320,0001. had been spent in the
establishment of schools since the year 1833. Those sums
had been advanced in addition to subscriptions of private
individuals. Altogether, within the last twelve years,
se much as one million of capital had beers
expended in Great Britain in building and founding schools.
Nor had the Dissenters been behind hand in this, for they had
subscribed as much as 70,000/. He had now bat one other
subject to notice in reference to the moral improvement of the
people of this country, and that was in reference to a measure
brought forward by his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the
Government, and which received the sanction of Parliament
in the course of last year. He alluded to the measure which
enabled the
any contribution from the public funds, to build churches and
to place endowed ministers in densely-inhabited manufacturing
districts of this country. The measure had now been in opera-
tion for about twelve months, and during that time thirteen
ehnrches had been built, thirty-nine were in progress of being
built, and forty-seven wer
tcontractedhat e
coincident
ritotobe26bo7o%.
Those churches would afford accommodation
last three
with the
people. He had now shown
measures which had been proposed in the la'
years, there had been a most remarkable revival of the trade torradfentowf
this country. There had been, on the whole, an
increase
the wages of labour, and there had been a diminutionofcnmine
and a diminution of pauperism. Much religious instruction had
been afforded, and, on the whole, he did hope and believe, that
the account which he had been reading would be regarded as
indicative of no neglect of duty on the part of the Government.
He was confident that the British public would see that they
had faithfully discharged their duties, with a sincere and honest
desire to promote the interest and happiness of all classes of
her Majesty's subjects, but more especially the interests and
welfare of the labouring classes. He must say, that in his opi-
nion the resolutions which had been proposed by the Noble
Lod, must be regarded, both by the House and by the
country, as demonstrations of a disapprobation of the con-
duct of her Majesty's Government, and as indicative
of an opinion that her Majesty had been ill advised. He should
feel it to be his duty before he sat down to move the previous
question, but to arrive at that previous
.question it was first ne-
cwsary to negative the amendment of the Honourable Member
for Rochdale. He could hardly think that the Honourable
Gentleman would be disposed to press the amendment to a
division. If, however, he should persist in pressing his amend-
ment, it would be his (Sir James Graham's) duty to vote

against it, and in case of its being rejected, then se should
move the previous question.
Sir C. BURRELL said, that in the course of I his speech
the Noble Lord had made some reflections on the county of
Sussex—(Hear, hear)—at least such was his impre ts ion of the
observations which the Noble Lord had made. • When the
Noble Lord recollected how great the changes T 11 dch a few
years made in the population of the county, and wt (t nhe espe-
cially recollected h.iw that population was now tend hag towards
the coast, he thought that the Noble Lord would , change his
position, and allow that the lower classes in the col gut; of Sus-
sex were not so reduced as he represented them. H. tel he known
that county properly he would never have so aspersed t 114 • gentry of
that county. In another part of his speech he ht spoken
of the want of education among the label x,-ers, and
of the disregard which was felt for their wants. He ( Sir
C. Burrell) thought that he might pretend to know 'something
of the country, and he could assert that it was s' constant
desire among the landowners, and all connncte( L with the
' property of the country, to find employment for thi t •poor, even
though at a sacrifice, rather than send them to the poor-house.
He knew something of the labourers, also, for he had been in
the habit, for many years, of paying upwards of seventy
labourer:, and had never heard that they were eithe rin want or
dissatisfied, and he was certain that there was a treat desire
throughout the country to meet the necessities of tl as. poor, and
provide them with employment, and he should be k :lad to know
from what source the Noble Lord derived his inforn A tion. _

-Lord JOHN RUSSELL certainly did not deli rs, to throw
any aspersions on the county of Sussex. He had .elerived his
information from the report of the Commissioners to • investigate
the state of the prisons in the county, and to repo e t upon the
state of the education of the prisoners whom they r Wight find in
the gaols.
Sir C. BURRELL—WouId the Noble Lord state what
gaols ?
Lord J. RUSSELL—Certainly not.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said that he had listened with great
satisfaction to the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet : the Secre-
tary for the Horne Department. He was glad to pe a wive from
that speech the course which the Government i n tended to
pursue, and that they intended to carry out many •• useful and
practical measures for the advantage of the county,. F He was
the last person to object to such a course, or to any "set of men
when they evidently were desirous of prompting goo d and great
purposes. But still he thought that there was some s It übt of the
utility of the made which they adopted in c. a rying out
their designs ; and when this impression was t prevalent
in the country he thought he was not going too far in stating
his opinion that the distress of the lower classes hr se I not been
sufficiently considered.—(" Hear, hear," from Los •c 1 J. Rus-
sell.) He thought, therefore, that the motion of ; his Noble
Friend was both a useful and a wise one, and th the had
taken a wise part in bringing this matter before the c onsidera-
tion of the House. He thought it was better to res oft to good
advice rather than to resort to the hazardous assist nice of the
empiric. He could not but repeat that he had !heard the
speech of the Right Hon. Baronet with great slots. s ction. As
an indication of the course which the Government it itended to
pursue, it certainly was good ; but what did the ape. to ia amount
to ? That there had been a great revival in trade- - that com-
merce and manufactures bad been aroused from t.l teir groat
depression, and that the people were relieved from t he dread-
ful depression of high prices.—(Hear.) During ,e present
year this had been remarkable, and he trusted t hat such
measures would be taken as would effectually prey( is t any re-
turn to the disastrous plan of high prices. But w' at was all
this ascribed to? Owing to the speeches of the F k .a. Gen-
tlemen opposite all these advantages had been ascri .b Id to the
wisdom of the Government, and it was not until the I were in-
terrupted by the laughter on the other side of the ' ouse that
they began and perceived that seasons had somet h ing to do
with it. When, in additiou to this, they were i nduced to
look further they might, he thought: aseribe : tc me thing
also to those periodical changes to which • es immercial
affairs were always subject, and to the I o w prices
which had ensued in consequence of the general rosperity.
Assuming that the argument of the Right Hon. ( ;entleman
was correct, what a strong argument it was why t Isey should
proceed in a course which had been been attended l with such
beneficial effects. Let them then proceed—let tl se m develop
the resources of the country and open up its charm( As to the in-
fluence of still further changes in these high price s. —(Hear.)
He was not, however, disposed to go much into eetail. He
considered ,that the calm and tranquillity which y ,43 rvaded the
country was favourable to the consideration of sue 11 questions.
The Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir James Graben i said that
the country was at the present moment in a state os ri treat pros-
perity, and that part at least of that prosperity was c is ring to the
late commercial changes that had been introduced b y the pre-
sent Government. if that was so, let them take ca, r • that a re-
coil would not take place, and produce estate of thinp ;It worse than
what preceded those changes. The country our ht, he con-
sidered, to be grateful to the Noble Lord who tad brought
forward this great question, influenced, as he was ;in doing so
by no factious or party feeling. He (Mr. Labo 3 There) per-
fectly concurred in the resolutions which had t e en brought
forward by the Noble Lord, and he would carne st ly implore
the Government to take them into their serious e rusideration.
He had great objection, however, to the manr 'r in which
they had brought about the changes which they 1: ad already
introduced. Not only did they disarrange trade s a d commer-
cial affairs, but he believed that they had been t x e cause of
producing the great discontent which prevailed in tl manufac-
turing districts. He thought that whatever claim I h e landed in-
terest might have to a protective duty, they were n o t entitled to
have it in such a way as to damage the commercial in e, treats of the
country. They—the Parliament—of that House, I sad set an
example, he would not say for what purpose or pie text—they
had pursued a course, in reference to sugar, which set a bad
example to the rest of the world. He thought that their re-
cent measures and policy, in reference to Brazil, hi d the ten-
dency rather to perpetuate than to put an end tt ) the slave
trade. But as that was not the time to enter into that ques-
tion, he would not detain the House further, bu t e onclude by
giving his hearty support to the resolutions whits) t had been
brought forward by the Noble Lord. —( Hear. )
Sir J. T YRRELL considered that parties in, that House
and in the country were in an extraordinary po sit ion. They
had an opposition doing the business of the Gov er nment, and
they had a Government who were deserted b those who
ought to be, an t bad been its most strenuous sus srters. For
his own part, he gave his best thanks to the Nt e Lord who
bad brought forward this question for the oppc .rte cnity which
he had afforded him of expressing his opinion on it. He did
not think that any Member of the House wr open to the
charge of prolonging the debate when he at' en ipted to lay
before the House the judgment ho had lot urn 'd on these
all-important questions. The Noble Lord had b. rut ight forward
his motion on the corn question, feeling the t I,his was the
great battle-field, and the main question for t he it considera-
tion. The Noble Lord had done great injut ice •to the agri-
cultural interest, inasmuch as there was a gi •ea t fund at the
disposal of any Minister who might think fit to ea rry it out for
the benefit of that interest. By the 43d of E li3 abeth it was
enacted that all persons should contribute to the poor-rate in
proportion to their means.—(Year, hear.) If' t hat were now
the case he thought Government would soon find a large fund
at their disposal for the purposes of education„ and for alle-
viating the distresses of the poor ; but it happe ni d that of late
Ministers had fought very shy of the common :is 1 and manu-
facturing districts of the country. Yet there v. res e many indi-
viduals in the large towns of this country who did not con-
tribute one particle to the maintenance of Vhd poor-rates--
Howell and James's, or Storr and Mortimer's, f or instance, who
would tell him that they bad invested their ax coney in pro-
perty.—(Laughter.) There was another que tty en on which,
if the principles of Hon. Gentlemen opposite -ea re true, they
were harshly dealt with, as those on that side o f t he House did
not carry out their own principles. With reap, set, to malt, for
instance, they did not take off any portion of tree duty, and yet
such would be., the increased consumption, are 1 I uch the addi-
tional amount added to the revenue, that no lo is would be sus-
tained by any such course—on the contrary, w' am 1 the agricul-
tural interest complained, they said to them., "We cannot
forego any such imposition ;" and when they a sk ed for a trifle,
they told them that it was unworthy of the agri cultural interest
to make such a demand. He could not, hove war, descend to
personalities, because ho was perfectly aware eh at they ought
not to be tolerated when great interests were
at stake ; but this he would say, theft when the
manufacturing districts were in a state of depression, the
Right Hon. Baronet altered the corn-laws, but -when the agri-
cultural interest complained—as they did at the ccmmence-
mont of the pr6sent session—the Right Hon.. Baronet's re-
medy was to make the manufacturing and comme re sal interests of
the country sori h and at the same time so hu yy—(Laugh-
ter )—that ho was not able to find them provision is. That was
the way great interests were dealt with. It had :been said that
they were not in a condition to form an agricultural adminis-
tration.—( Hear, hear.) But be that as it may • they thought
that they had dune so. He for one did not conaid er that any
greater reflection on the intelligence of that body than it would
be in a nobleman who had not two sets of butlers., nor two sets
of cooks, and who did not offer his guests the (entertainment
they had expected. Those on the bench below him he thought
had forfeited their confidence, and so far as they
were concerned they might look for .etiier friends.
It was true they might not get betters— (Laughter.)
The great parties in this House were so united that there was
very little difference between them on groat or small questions.
Laughter.) It was necessary to call them by name to spe-
cify their opinions. He felt considerably indebted to the Noble
Lord for bringing forward those resolutions. Ile regretted
that he could not vote for them—( Laughter)--because they
were not of a practical character. The Noble Lord never in-
tended that they should be so.—( Continued laughter.) But
he must do him the justice to say that he kept a good look out,
keeping a man at the mast-head to watch when the straw
moved, that he might avail himself of any opportunity of
taking the reins of Government, and of obtaining the con-
fidence of the Queen. Under these circumstances he should
sit down.—( Great laughter.) He did not believe that
the constituencies of the country had changed their opinions.
What might happen in the future was not for him, to point out.
—(Load laughter.) During the ten years which the Noble
Lord held power he had not propounded any intelligible mea-
sure in that House with respect to education, although he took
great pains to dilate on its importance. If he were asked why
all classes were in the receipt of such small wages, which he
for one deplored, he would say that they chiefly arose from a
want of confidence in the Ministers and in that House as to the
policy which they intended to pursue towards those engaged in
agriculture. As far as theory went, they might be right, but,
being theoretically right, they might be practically wrong.
It could not be disguised that this was meant to be a corn-law
debate. The Non. Member concluded by saying that when
they next put their noses into that House, he was greatly mis-
taken if there was not a change of men as well as of measures.

Lord POLLAN G TON differed entirely from the views of
the Right Hon. Baronet who had just sat down. An ancient
philosopher said that there were two great feelings in our
nature, the sympathy and antipathy, but the strongest feeling
of all was the sympathy of antipathy. He thought this observa-
tion very well applied to many Hon. Members on that aide of
the House who opposed the Government. The Hon. Baronet
boasted of his affection to his own country, but would yet raise
a palace of foreign stone in St. James's-street, erected by foreign
artists.—( Hear.) With respect to the corn-laws, he had not the
same feelings of dislike to their repeal as many Hon. Members
on that side of the House.—(" Hear, hear," from the Opposi-
tion.) He objected to colonization on any but a full and com-
plete system. The plan of sending convicts to our colonies had
been most pernicious. With respect to the question of educa-
tion he thought much good had been done by the attention
which Parliament had lately devoted to the subject. He pre-
ferred no education to education without religion—total dark-
ness was better than false lights, which would lead them to
destruction.

Mr. VILLIERS rose and said that he had been listening
with the greatest attention for some hours to the discussion
promoted by the Noble Lord, and he took great anxiety
to find an answer to the principal question raised
by his resolutions—to see some reasons why
be should not intrude himself upon the attention of
the House, either by an answer to his Noble Friend's
arguments, or by a determination of his Noble Friend
to relieve him from the trouble of obtruding himself on that
House in future. No one could dispute the great question
raised by his Noble Friend that night—it was a question of pro-
tective duty, because the Noble Lord brought before the
House the condition of the labouring; classes, with a view to the
improvement of their condition. He alluded to many things
which had deteriorated the condition of the labouring classes,
but which were not within the reach or eontroul of the Legis-
lature, but he alluded to one thing in particular which had
been the especial cause of this deterioration and
which was within the control of Parliament.— Hear. )
He bad presented to the House that night a high duty with
all that he had said on the subject, and they had been waiting
on that side of the House to hear the theory defended, and to
hear whether it was practicably true what had been proposed.
stotre; rose,llyli dtaenneduliiht h
with interest
wouid rueerestwhe
nthweithiali
Hon. Member for

to defend the aspersions that had been cast on the
opposition offered by the Right Honourable the Secre-
tary of State. He thought there were arguments
in its defence, which would reconcile the House to the con-
tinuance of the measure. The Right Hon. Gentleman
laboured to prove the great blessing and great advantage to the
community at large, and especially to the labouring classes,
which had resulted from certain restrictions on trade. The
arguments which had been submitted appeared to him to have
been adduced merely to consume the time of the House.. He
believed in no other assembly such arguments would be tole-
rated. For the last seven years, these arguments had
been heard over and over again. The prices were
low, which meant that food was abundant, and
they had the Right Hon. the Secretary of State for the
Home Department as a witness te what were the effects of low
prices. if it were wished to put a witness in the box to speak
to these effects, he knew of no man in whom more implicit
confidence could be placed, and to whose word more could be
trusted, or whose evidence would be more satisfactory, than
the Right Hon. Gentleman. He says, in the first plaice, the
labouring class are well off. He does not say this as a
progressive improvement, but he contrasts it with the
time when he would have wished it. He gives you
some results, to show what was the effect of low
prices in diminishing misery. He goes throng') every
test to try the condition of the lower classes. He says,
crime is diminished, and crime is usually the result of
poverty. He says that wages are increased not only in the
manufacturing, ,but also in the agricultural districts. He
told the House that the rates for the relief of the poor had
been diminished, and there was less destitution in the ceitntrv.
He had given the price of provisions, and had said that tfie
price of meat had been reduced from 7d. per pound to 6d., and
that sugar some time ago was 7d. per pound, and was now only
sd. ; and told us to regard the blessing that had resulted from
this redaction in price. The Noble Lord has said, by the
system we were pursuing, we were raising the price of
food upon the community and the labouring classes, and
if they were obliged to pay more for their food,
they would be less able to clothe and educate their children.
If those on the Opposition side of the House succeeded in
raising the priee of food, then they were willing to go back
to the law of 1840 and 1841 ; bat if they failed in raising
the price of food, then they cared not for 10s. additional to
the present rate of duty. There was no escape from this con-
clusion, so he would leave them to settle it as they could.
—( Cheers.) The question was, is protection worth having,
or is it not ? The Hon. Gentleman who agreed with the
Hon. Member for Sussex had stated they withdrew their:con-
fidence from the Ministry, for the injury they had inflicted on the
agricultural interest by their recent tariff, yet what was the fact.
According to the Hon. Member for Sussex, the labourers in
his county were never better off than they were new. The
labourers were well employed and paid. He had in his own
employment seventy labourers, who were described to be ex-
ceedingly well to do ; yet this was at a time when he was
threatening to withdraw his support from the Government
who had passed the law under which this prosperity had taken
place.—(Cheers.) He wanted to know if there was any
rational ground or pretence for protective duties at all? The
Noble Lord the Member for London, in the course
of his address, had pointed out with great clearness
and ability the benefits which had resulted from the removal of
protection. He had instanced wool and silk, about which the
greatest cry was raised in both Houses of Parliament at the
time the duties were reduced.—( Hear, hear.) Noble
Lords and Right Honourable Gentlemen manifested the
greatest fears of the bad consequences which would follow,
yet so far fron anything injurious resulting, the
step taken had been attended with great advantage to thaw
particular trades and the general interests of the country.
There was not one single argument applied to wool or silk.
but what equally applied to corn. The Noble Lord had
shown that wherever the protective system was in existence, the
interest sought to be benefited was invariably depressed..
The Noble Lord had contrasted his intermediate scheme for of
4s. duty with the less equivocal measure propounded by him-
self and colleagues. But wherein consisted virtually the diffe-
rence between an insignificant restrictive import, acknow-
ledged to be but temporary, and an immediate free trade?
The principle was admitted, but the mischief retained. For
himself, however, he thanked the Noble Lord for the opportu-
nity he had afforded the House of discussing the question, and
he trusted it would meet with that consideration its interest
and importance demanded.
The Hon. Mr. SCOTT thought it was incumbent upon the
agriculturists of the county to raise a sufficient supply of food
for the population, and without protection were afforded tao
that interest:it was quite impossible that this:object could be ac-
complished. The population of the country, it was admitted,
increased a thousand per day, or 366,000 per year, and this
circumstance rendered it necessary that agricultural
protection should be increased in order that the
supply of food might keep pace with the demand.
In his opinion, it was absurd to expect that a repeal of the
existing corn-law would induce corn producing countries no
export their grain, or increase the manufacturing trade of Eng-
land. Prussia had imported the largest quantity of corn intro
this country, and yet in the last year Prussia had only taketn
201. worth of printed goods, and 127/. of cotton goods. It was
much better, therefore, to give protection and encouragement
to the British agriculturist, and they might rely upon it, in pro-
p :rtion to the increase of protection,, the trade and manufacture
would be augmented.
On the motion of Mr. P. HOWARD, the debate was theta
adjourned till Wednesday.
The report on the last Committee of Supply was brought sx,p
and agreed to.