The Sun.
London, England, 1816-05-29 00:00:00

NEW SILVEIi C:OINAGE.

Mr. IV.Por,a brought down n Message firm
the Prince Regent, which stated, that considering
the present deft.ctive state MO amount of Saver'
Coin,' his. Royal Highness directed a new and
extensive. issue, and relied nn the assistance Of the
House of Commons to carry into effect theneees-
sary measures on this important subject.
Mr. W. PoLa moved, that the House should
consider the subject in a Committee on Thursday
next.—Agreed to.
A copy of the Treasury Minute respecting Civil
List Offices was ordered.
TRINITY HOUSE,
_

Mr. Rosa, pursuant; to his notice, rose to move
for 'Certain Papers relating to the trinity House.
He. Stated that his object in moving for these Pal
pers was principally for the purpose of refitting
certain accusations against the Corporation,. which.
had been been made by an Hon. Gentleman ()pro—
site on a former occasion. He then moved for an
scconnt of the Revenue of the Trinity Corpora-
ruin, and how it was hpplied for the ten years be-
tween 180.1 and 1815 ; also en Account of the
number of Alms-houses built by the Corporation ;
and attic Pensions allowed by them ; likewise of
the number of -Light-houses built by the Corpti-
retiOu.

Mr. 13tacn ma:•ltained all the charges which he
bud formerly made against the Corporation of the
Trinity House ; and produced to the House a do-
cument proving them.

Mr. Holm explained.
Sir W CURTIS (14.'1'01144A the Trinity House
film) the charges of the lionoaroble 'Gentleman;
whinh were peifeetly untoornied.
Mr. TtituNttY tholigist •the vindication -of the
Right Iloooorable Gentleman (Mr. Rose) ,was
intended to forestoll the motion which his lion.
Friend (Mr. Birch) intended to found on the
Papers which were now tu,)eetl for, and therefore

is was a speech quite Out of time.
Mr. WAURV said a feW words as to the neees.
sity Of looking into the mode in which the con-
cerns Of the Corporation were ntsnaged.
Mr. ItnsE explained.
The motion was then agreed to, and the Papers-
were soon after presented to the Honse.—Ordered
to lie on the table, and to be printed.
AUSTRIAN LOAN.

Mr. ti ANIMBRBLEY rose, plo•sitmit to his notice,

to call the attention of the House to the large
SUMS title to this country by Austria. In doing so,
he w►as actuated by no dispoiition to disturb the
amicable relations at present subsisting between
the two nations ; on the contrary, he wished
these relations of ami►y to be cherished and
strengthened. in the first place, be referred to
the Message which had been sent to the House in

1,795, recommending the Loan to Austria and to
the Act of Parliament for that purpose. In that
Act was contained a proviso for securing and re.
covering payment of the money. The first Loan
was in 1795, to the amount of 4,290,001. In
1797, an additional sum of more than 3,000,0001.
Since May 1797, no notice whatever had been
taken of this debt. Nay, in the account of the
Public Debt of Great Britain, presented by Go-
vernment to the House, the amount of the Pub-

lie Funds were stated, exclusive of the Imperial
Loan. Why was there no cognizance of this
Loan ? The tact was, it was the Debt of the Ern
peror, and as such admitted in every shape. In
his character as one of the Trustees tor this Loan,

he thought it absolutely necessary that the, House,
should he furnished with informatiOn'on the sub-
ject. He therefore expected that 'the Noble
Lord would this night make some communi-
cation as to this debt ; and this he-mast add,
that if any arrangement had been made with
. Austria, by width this debt was cancelled, certainly
he would find that this country was quite delud-
ed with respect to the debt, whatever
might entertain, as to the impropriety of the eon-
ditet of the Noble Lord in not having sooner in-
formed the House of such an arrangement. if any
such had been made. It never had heen his opi-
nion that the repayment of. the debt could have
been expected from Austria at the time when she
was stripped, plundered, and impoverished by
France. But the fact was, that the situation of
Austria was now trite Changed. The recent ar-
rangements on the Continent had left her mistress
of a large anal extensive territory.- It could no
longer, therefore, be said that the situation of
Austria was such that the payment could not he
expected. But. if k were said that tile financial
skim, ion of Austria' was- one. of great distress, he
would say that the financial situation of this roan.
try was also bail: Why wrs nor such tin arrange-
ment made with Austria as had heeit made with
Port rigal ? The latter coulitry being in our debt,
the Wand of Nladeira wac '4sNigised ko us until •lie
debt sbouid have breu disgual4;cd frog the rem-

• -
nue .6i This it-al et eiSe exactly in
point ; and he saw ttn reason why st 81-
rarigement bhottl(Cnut be made with Atwtia, lie
concluded hy inoviug an Address td the Prince
Itcgent, praying that the Stints acivancea to Ai's-
triit should be taken into consideration, with a
vieW to instituting negociations ior the imrtioil:e of
coming to some arrangement satisfactriry to both
eonotries.

1 Lind CMTLPREAGII said it woehl only be ilecei-
itary for him to trouble the 1-louse with a very few
ob'slei.vations on the present qiicAion, as he could
very ihorily satisfy them ,that the present was by nu
11)Ca113 a proper time to ent.Cr flirt) negOeilitioui
the sublect. In saving any thing tin this subject,
he thought it highly proper for him to state, that
he believed it to be the sincere wish of Austria to
ray oil this deli[. Indeed, the House was awal.e
that the advancing this money to Austria in the
shape of a loan, was a very unusual mode of prO-
ce.eding, and had, at the time, created a strong
impression in the coinStry. It had latterly been
found much better to advance SUMS to foreign
powers (in cases similar to that in which the Loan
now in question had beau advanced) in the shape
of subsidies ; and Austria was the oily power to
which we had ever made an advance in the shape
of a luau. That the Austrian Government had
not yet fulfilled its engagements w respect to
this money, ought to lead to no imputation
.egainst the good faith of that Powtr. Titter was
no power in Europe which hail more extensively
tottered from the calamities of the French Revo-
iimion, or that
,had borne drain move manfully ;
nor had Austria ever receded from the contest,
' except when she was reduced tn:Such a situation
that all her Allies allowed such a mensure to be
necessary. If it was considered how meet' she
had suffered in these conflicts, on man would won-
der that she had not yet been able to discharge the
debt in question. The Hon. Gentleman alluded
to the situation in which Austral now stood ; but
then it must be considered, that although she
had certainly gained some acquisitiqus iu terri-
tory, her position wits such that she hail not yet
time,to apply a complete remedy to her financial
(illnesses. lie was sorry indeed to say, that the
finances of Austria were now as Much depressed
as they had, been at any time since the beginning
of the Revolutionary War, but still the debt in
question was by no means to be' considered as.
obliterated. If any orraegemeut could he made
for the liquidation of the debt, it certainly would'
be very wise to make it ; but this he could say,
that there could not be a more unfavourable
time than the present for entering into any nego-
tiation on the, subject. It might, perhaps, be
said, that the amount of the contribution paid to
Austria by Prance (which came to 5,000,0001.
sterling) ought to have been haudcd to us on
SC-
count of the dabt ; but, on reflection, no man
would say dint such an arrangement would have
heeu by any means fit on the present occasion.
le fact, it would have been most unwise to at- ,
tempt it, us it: might have deranged the whole po-
litical arrangements of the Allies, to the utter pre-
judice of our ino-sompwant interests.. To agree
to the present motion woeld only he deluding the
couotrv. lie cOntidently looked rot the re-este.
blishmetit tle.! Imances Ausit ia. anti the li-
quidation of this deht, boi being c.iiviticed that,
no negociation could accelerste this, but rather
retard it,' lie felt it his duty to ateet the present
motion by Moving the previons question,
Mr. .100 t. SM Fru said, he could easily under-
stand that there were muny difficulties in the way
of Effecting an arrangement as to this debt during
the war ; but ail those causes must now have
ceased to operate. The country wl4 certainly now
entitled to know the course pursned by the Airs-
Irian Government ; he therefore hoped the lion.
Gentleman would divide the pause epos his mo-
tion, as a slim Of 511C1I en enorwolvi amount as,
13,000,0001., due to us by' a forei!:,n power, re-
quired that every step should be taken to recover
it.

The CHANCELLOR of the Ev.Cntionzu was at a
loss to know hOw the amount of the debt due by
Autitria could be stated at 13,000,0001. The
amount of the original advt.ance was only 4,600,0001.
It was quite unfair to stateit at a larger sum than
it really was,. merely for the purpose of producing
a false impression' on the subject. No greater
proof of the total inability of Austria to pay otty
claims could be given thtits this; that since 1709,'
although all parties bad been in power, no Ali-
nisters hall thought proper to call upon that Ile.•
tioll for re-payment,
Mr. LAw thought that it would be extremely
impolitic at-this moment to press the ,payment of
that debt on Austria. We ought to do every
thing to restore Rad consolidate her poWer. She
was the central monarchy, on whose efficient
strength the peace and balance of Europe de-
pended. France was -not the only nation to be
dreaded ; Russia was equally dangerous, anti when
the exposed state of the frontiers of Austria was
considered, the propriety Of assisting and sup-
porting her Would he evident. The state of the
Austrian finances was stickohat take
man's whole lite to undostand it. The Vienna
bank paper, hailed at 10(i florins, bail beet) re-
duced to 20 florins, and in that state was at a de-.
preciation of 3:41 per cent.. The issues of that
paper anounted to 1,000,000 of florins, and the,
total ci the Aust inn Debt was 4,000,000 of francs.
He should oppose the motion, although be did
full justice to the motives on which it wee
founded., :,

lion."

Mr. W. SMITH defended the motion, whicl► only
direcced Ministers to enter into some negociation
to effect an arrangement satisfactory th both coun-
tries, and was therefore pot intended to occasion
any pressure .on Austria. The pressure on the
people of this country was at all events much
greater, and lee doubted whether . it %tonic! not be
preferable for England to look at mice into her
situation, be would not call, it nation d bank-
tuptcy, or consent to a reduction of time interest
of the debt, instead of continuing to pay beyond
her means.

Mr, BROUGHAM, alluding to the argument used
by the Chan&lltir of the Exebegner, that ',Mier
viirious ,-Administrations, no Minister but Called
upon Austria for the payment of her loan, 0.-
berved, that when Mr. I?itx came into power, the
circumstances of Austria were very different from
thr present. lt was alter the Battle of Auster-
litz, and when the Austrian monarchy bad sunk

its .i.-prel,.n., Ira;:igrcer; ire the F-
licy of assisting her, and renovating fort 6
to oppose her As Z.--Ce1111;41 barrier to the aggrt.,,
scone; of either llusaia or Prance; but he did tear:
Pre lhat the mOtitin could coat:tenet that polic•i
It ‘Vpidd only keep alive Our and shot' tJ!
the people Of this cOuntry and ttr Austria thlt
bad not foigotten it. He had understood the
bdth Austria Anti lirussia had pledged thernselve4
to give a new Constittit ion to the ptieti Of 1
which remained in their possessitin. lint thek,7
had taken no step for that • pnrpoie; whilst,
. his infinite jitiitoni., the !Thiperocof Rttssialuilt
eonferred a Constitution, on liberalluinciples, to
the ll'olish.kingdom erected under Ids auspices.
IFl.,:,tait'st.av, in his reply, stated, if ilot
-thirteen lent to Austria hart been appliedto the reduction of the National )eht, 27
of it would have been extioguished in the coarse;
of the period during which Austria had kept oar
money. He persisted in his motion.
The House divided
Agiinst the motion . .43
For it

Majority against it
CATHOLIC CLAIMS.

.. -s7

1 Sir J. Cox HIPPISLEY, in rising to make the mo.
tion of which he had given ootice, wished to gear(l-.•
the House against its being umlerstood that he
should advocate the MIS(' of etnaocipation with'
out proper securities. He would never eo,,eetlg
as a right what was elaiffleil, and could "tot be
granted RS such, consistently with the principkoOf
the Coriatittitioti. lie thee proceeded to take 4
comprehensive view of the policy and conduct Of
the differeot Synods held liy the Catholic Prrht"'
and the opinions which. they had expresied
1799, they had declared, e• that the iuterferencore
of the Crown with the uotninatio!. of llishops! f
the purpose of ascertaining their ,letyult,icwesifi'tir
and ought to take place." lo 180 S another Sy'uiu
had come to a very different decision, that it
inexpedient to adopt any measure to alter Becle4,
siastical discipline. On an eXplanatiOo he"
ing retptired, they had stated diet the dechratio:
of inexpediency was not in opposition to the It-
solution of 1799, but that the inexpediency am"
from the circumstances of the times.. Jo 1';10. 4
new Meeting bad confirmed the Resohctiou of
1808, and denotniced the Election by Chanters►
which was now so popular in Ireland, tis one
which, if adopted, would soon lapse into riot
mere nomination of the Crown. ' The Spinel 4:
1512 had confirmed the Resolution of 1810,
.thetr read from a work by Mr. Clinch, published'
in 1808, and styled the Inquiry', or a Bhef W.'.
shops, the opinions of that Gentleman-respect•
ing emancipetion, and in favour of aecnritirs. let
1813, a pastoral address had been issued in Item
laud, reprobating the mu at 'that time proceed-
ing through the 11 wise, and the 'conditions ott.
which erionicipation was then-proposed. If Ova
measure lout been carried three yeiri Si,,QC. it
would have pitt an coil to the disturbances ex.
cited by those men who wished to mislead their
'country. At the next Spool, in 1814, it tviis
shewn that the rescript of Aloitseignum QuAran.,
totti admitted all which the Bill had pro'
Dosed to inchule. In the month of Auvust.
the Catholic Prelatos lk!ol di:clewed as 11„..,r Net.
.seieuchnis opinion, that any pmr,r gi v.. 11 it) 00
n to interfvre, ei.her dime ,ticectl,t
with the nomination of Bishoo •,, e ifoitc:,-
per, and that at alrtimei,they •••I ti oppt,,e.
a measure in the most Catholic etetoir.
manner. Nay, on Good Vritlay last., A
Murray had thought !Hopei- to ascent!
and to dedounce those who butt s;gtavti t
tioil presented by his !lon. I.lioend, the
for Dublin. A -letter ;front the Same PrclaH,
appeared 'in one of the Dublin papvts,
that to submit to an alteration t,f ecelesiaStle,4
discipline would he the' degradation and the rig-
slavernent of Catholics, and the abaniloomeot
their'religion. Dr. Troy wai therefore at issue
with his coadjetors; and the Catholics who
had signed the petition, with those who hati
not. Tliings could remain as ihey.4:ooll at pr.,
sent, when Some of the stutiltes Of 1.:HZ11).14v
subjecting all persons who should receive
or communicate with the See of flume, to the l'ed
nalties of high treason, were still 'existence.
He then alluded to the regnlatinos adopted itt
Hungary and Austria, and concluded by in sving---

, •

" That several gtlicial papers relative to the, reg.gulation of
varioul State'
,of and in their
be referred to a Select committee, and that they
report Cie rare and, the "iihject of the Ordinancea resreet-
ing the regulation of Rowan Catholic -sithjecti, and then-in-
tercourse with the See of Rothe, and other foreign jurlgdiv

Mr. Peet; expressed .Isis jotention to snpport,tiid
motion, as he saw !Milling objectionable in, it..
Ile-tvas always desirous that the subject should
undergo a deep investigation ; but in saying,thst
he should not oppose the motion he did not thesis
to give any pledge that he might approve of NI)
ot thegsecoritics which' the Hon.. Baronet mickt
propose. No securities could remove the objec-
tions which he had to the extentive securities
proposed,ami he even thought it improbable that
any Of those securities could be made more.polo:
table to the Catholics than those %hie) they hall
rejected.;

Sir U. PARNELL thought .be attimadiersion-.
the Right Hon.Gentlemati (Mr. Peel) on the lat).
gt►age of the Petition to be too stnere.; he shout°
have the honour to present the Petition in a fob'
tiny*. lie trusted the same moderate"and tcmp
rate language which had lately been used lb':
occasion would continue to prevail all (taw
disc►►ssions.

Mr. Peat. and Sir H. Pastaza. explained.
Mr. LOCKHART opposed the motion, hecause.in
nil changes which we have effected, we have nld°
them on the practice of our ancestors, and tot
from the principle of the usages and liberties
grinned to their subjects by foreign states. 1:11,64
Hon. Baronet, he thought, could not abet n"Y
precedent for the adoption of the measure be'
propoied.
Mr: W. ELLIOT said he did not ascribe that 0447
lue to the regulations it I) eh other people 1:1;
upon their,but there was little chance of tali
quest ion succeeding. unless due to:l;essiun::
were and --he trusted the Cach"lie.l
themselves woad riot be backward in making
all the concessions that were necessary 04 dleir

Net: lie stipiPo'rtthe*otiori, -Ds Iteing a
step.inithe progress Of the desitable end. The
ilifprunrOonmight he useful to the public.
Lord L'it'ti,';'Ltate.Asts thrrugll it well for,
trs;le. inf.-in-11,rd of the practices Avhich
other, nitioris 'had adopted, as it wool(' hew what
vas the in.fr3`irii(l practice of all the States iii Ets-
tope, respecting. the liberties enjoyed by Catholics,
'without prejudice to the Governments under witieh
they lista. The head of their Church wits. of'
necessity, a Foreign Power, and it wasmeceosary,
therefore, to prevent the See of Rome from glum;
:ileyond the boundaries which the safety of other
States requited. One of the errors that hung
About t his question was, that many persons 'seemed
to think that every step that WA, taken in it ,as
pleasure of legislation, was a matter of suspicion,
and it was not looked upon as the proteediag of
cnmuson precaution, which had been found neces-
tary in all times. He thought the present
question embraced a nii.st interesting inquiry,
*because' our former policy had, by the course
of events, been turned aside. He considered
the Catholics to be interested its the good go-
vernment of these reabl” WEIS nut con—
sistent that any foreign power should have an
unrestricted intercourse with the civil policy (if
these realms It wls rS strange anomaly, that all
other countries in the iemil nod tvight, that by
being placed under regulations, the Catholics were
safe. After the ItefoAnation we had endeavour-
ed to destroy the. Catholic religion altogether ;
tutu the Act of 13th Eliz. wits founded on the
sioppositiow th it that religion was not to be. tole-
rated in these realms ; but by the liberalized :Is-
Item of the WOllll 'since that period, it was, known
rim the Catholic religion, thoos.;11 not tolerated in.
tlOs con,,try, had beets exercised as freely as
ally part of "'Amite. The language of cer-
tain 'atholic Prelates was that of passion ra-
ther t!tin reason, and was unworthy of them;
tor tiey must know that we were watch-
ing o'er their« worship, its 'freely as over our
own ; but they would know t hei'rown Government
better mien they saw, that so far Irom'wishing to
interrupt - them. it wished to encourage them. lie
orry-to say that it was not in Ireland the
•Catholierelivm was professed with Most libera-
lity,. There was there more of the ultra-montane
principle in it titan in 'other countries. On the
wit ste, trusting that nothing could grow Out 'of
th,s! Committee proposed that could -give pain
to' any man's mind, hut that its inquirieS Worthd
enable them to look fairly at whist bad passed its
Europe upon the subject, the should sopport the
'n

Sr J. NEWPORT supported the motion, from
the con% iction Ow it would dispose the country
to the more favourable reception of the measure,
!,-td to a community of pi ieileges. The.tegtii,►-
tioa to w,hich the Noble Lord had alluded at tor-
t►ter periods, hod proved, by the experience of
tine, to h. grossly fallacious and unjust.
54 J. C. 1.1 tertst.ltY' briefly replied. He begged
to be tintler'stood as having ni.tved the question
distinctly us a Pro►estant U10t101), in order to re-
concile the ill1011)xliCS concerning the Acts of ',Co.
leratiou.

The question %v as then put and carried ‘vithout
a division, antl a Committee of twenty one ap-
pointed accordingly,