The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-22 00:00:00

ELECTION COMMITTEES.

The SPEAKER then ordered the names of
those Members whi, claimed to be exempted
from serving on Election Committees, on the
ground of their being more than sixty years
of age, to he read by the clerk at the table. The list
having been read, the Speaker asked if there were
any other Member who wished to claim exemption for
the same season ?

Sir R. PEEL said he was very unwilling to claim
exemption, but under present circumstances, he was
compelled to ask the indulgence of the House,
and to be excused from sitting on Committees.
The SPEAKER then put the question, and the
Right Hon. Baronet's claim was conceded unani-
mously.
Lora Stanley, Sir James Graham, and the Chan-
cellor of the hxchequer, requested to be exempted
from serving, on account of their official duties, and
were exempted accordingly.
Mr. Greene was excused from serving, on the
ground of his office of Chairman of the Committee of
Ways and Means.

COPYRIGIIT REGISTRATION BILL.
Mr. GODSON, on proposing that this Bill be
read a second time, said he had no intention to
commit the Mouse in this stage to any of the prin-
ciples of the Bill. Ile had been told that the book-
sellers wished for time to consider the measure, and
therefore he would propose such a postponment of the
third reading as would enable all parties to determine
what course they would pursue.
Mr. JARVIS said, it should be understood that the
House did not pledge itself to the principle of that
Bill.

Mr. GOD SON.—Certainly.
The. Bill was then read a second time, and ordered
to he read a third time on the .sth of April.
CORN-LAWS—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
The Order of the Day was then read for the House
resuming the debate on the Corn-laws.
Mr. HARDY said if he gave a silent vote, per-
haps it might be imputed to him that he embraced all
the extreme opinions of those who sat on that side of the
House, and he had no wish to incur such a responsibi-
lity. At the last election, when he offered himself as a
candidate to his constituents, the question of a fixed
duty, or a sliding scale, was a prominent one on the hust-
ings. Ile then expressed his opinion in favour of a sliding
scale, though regulated somewhat differently from
what it had been up to that time. He also ventured
to state what he thought ought to be the maximum
amount of duty imposed on foreign corn, and
it so happened that he coincided with that which
the Right Hon. Baronet had adopted, though the plan
was then unknown to him. It happened that 20s.
was the duty which he thought ought to he imposed,
though he thought it should commence at a lower point,
than it did in the proposed measure. He thought,
too, that if corn were kept generally under 605.,
no one in the countrywould grumble. He advocated
then, as he' adVocated now, a duty - upon foreign
corn, not tow tir. ~fi any particular class, but fiir
the benetit,:t of the . hole country-(Hear.) He
felt no interest whatever in the question of
of the Hon. Mernber for , Wolverhampton,. believing
that it was fo'f.the benefit orthe country at large that a
duty should 14 imposed. lie saw his lion. Friend the
Member for Salford . smile at. his stating that
the duty on the importation of foreign corn
was imposed • for the • benefit of the country.
Why he (Mt. 11.) (lid not, nor did the Hon. Member,
mean to say that the duty on the manufactured
goods was imposed for the benefit of the
manufacturer. It was imposed for the benefit
of the country in which the manufactures were carried
on, in order to extend the benefit of industry and
skill as far as possible throughout that country, and to
enable that country to supply not only other coun-
tries, but its own population with her manu-
factured goods. Each kind of duty was imposed
for the benefit of the whole, and on no
other ground would it receive his support.
It might possibly happen that the benefit would fall in
one case upon one class, and in another upon the
other. But such was not the intention
of the Legislature who imposed the duty.
The advantage to these towns was incidental, for
the benefit was intended for the country gene-
rally. That benefit was rendering the nation
independent of foreign supply for its daily food. If
they were wholly or in part dependent on foreign
supply, the consequences might be terrible, as in
time of scarcity other countries would in all proba-
bility be in the same situation, and would prevent
their grain leaving their shores, to relieve the
necessities of this country. If these laws were
passed merely for the benefit of any one class,
he should , be as ready to repeal them as the
Ilonottrable Memb3r for Salford himself. But
they were passed for the benefit of the whole country.
They were no more to be objected to than the duties
On 11.)reign manufactures. lie quoted the resolu-
tion of tbe Corn-law delegates at the Crown
and Anchor, denouncing the Corn-laws, as a
great national sin, and expressed his worder that
if they were so injurious as this strong language
stated, they had heard nothing about their repeal
during the ten years of the Liberal Mi-
nistry. During the Administration of Earl
Grey, during the Administration of Lord
Melbourne, no step was taken/to repeal them ; and it
was not till the light the late Ministry cast
over the country was expiring in its socket,
and it became necessary to draw public
attention to the position of the Ministry, that any-
thing was done for the repeal of the laws that
had been denounced in such strong language
by the Neiv.." Parliament sitting at the Crown and
Anchor: "Ite,repeated that they were for the benefit
of the whole .country, and none reaped
more of the benefit than the manufacturers.
The mantifddetirers; 'Who advocated a total repeal of
the Corn-la:WS,tad declared their willingness to aid in'
the abolition, of all duties imposed for their own prO-
tection. Wow .that-was the first time ho had heard
of such trwillingtitsg.--(" No, no," from the Oppo-
sition.) tie Saw no petitions presented by those par-
ties praying for a removal of their own protection,
as well tui for •a repeal of the protection to agricul-
ture. But who was it passed the laws which protected
manufactures ? Why, it was a Legislature which
consisted of 'the landowners of the country. The
landowners had an interest in getting manufactured
articles as cheap as possible ; but notwithstanding
that they passed those laws which, by protecting
manufacturers, raised the price of manufactured ar-
ticles. The protection could not, in his opinion,
be taketi away from agriculture, consistently
with the? interests of the country ; and his belief
was, that' a repeal of the Corn-laws would throw
all poor e amid,
completely out of cultivation.
The Honourable Gentleman then entered into a state-
ment of figuresJo show, that under the proposal of
Lord John duty the average to be paid by
the foreign-importer would amount to 13s ad while
under that of Sir R. Peel it would be Only ss.
The Bill of the Right Hon. Baronet also got rid
of the disadvantages of the present mode of
taking the averages. There would be a sliding
scale throughout by the
Bill of the Right
lion. Baronet, whereas now, instead of a sliding scale
it was a jumping scale. The Hon. Member for Wolver-
hampton altogether 'disclaimed protection for agricul-
ture, but he (Mr. H.) did not call it protection to
agriculture, but also to the labourers employed is
agriculture. They must do one or the other. 'They not
only protect the manufacturer, hut all who work under
him and are connected with him in trade. By protect-
in agriculturist, they likewise protect all under
him ; they protect saddlers, blacksmiths, and others
who are connected with him, and they protect the la-
bourer also. lion. Gentlemen, therefore, must not say
that protection did note tend to the labourer, but was
confined only t,) the lan(!ed proprietor. Hon. Gentle-
men opposite could never have looked at the price of land
in this country, and the return it makes to the owner.
Where was the estate that paid more than two-and-a-
half or three per cent. for the money laid out on it ?
That was not the case with manufactures.—(Hear,
hear.) "Rat when they thought that 60,0001. or 80,000/.
laid out 10a:um
or three would only ensure' two-and-a-half
it was a
Strang per • cent, he (Mr. Hardy) thought
prolwtion in taoLv(l.:Eri that there was not much undue
.The Non. Gentleman op
polite had mentioned analiodp-unon of Mr. Huskisson's; he

sentation
voepinniinona ofefwthvvit,etrgdesnatrkempraen's in his
h(Manrd.,llinawwehsichhewl-dasagni
of the state in which the country would be placed if
foreign corn were at all times allo
fein
edrinfaresep.—ee(eTh,hae
Hon. Gentleman then read an extract
pamphlet of Mr. Huskisson s, the substance of which
was, that a steady home supply was the only foundation
for safe and moderate prices. If foreign corn were freely
admitted, bread might be admitted a little, though a very
little, cheaper than at present, for a year or two. But
the small farmer would be ruined ; improvements
would stand still, and impoverished land would
return to a state of waste ; home consump-
tion, which conduced so much to the prosperity
of our country, would necessarily decline. To protect
the small farmer was to protect the people. The Hon.
Gentleman opposite had given them details of the num-
ber of mills at present out of employ, but he had not
stated when these mills had been built—whether before
the existence of the Corn-laws, or after their enactment.
—(An Hon. Member said " Before.") If that were the
case, then he (Mr. Hardy) thought that was a
strong proof that the Corn-laws had nothing to do
with these mills being unoccupied, for these laws
i
were n existence when immense sums of money were laid
out on the erection. Yet the depression that had occurred
the Hon. Gentleman was ready to impute to the Corn-
laws, when tinder them these erections had been made.—
The Hon. Member for Knaresborough said that he had
had enough for himself. He (Mr. II.) was really glad
to hear that the honourable Member had gone Ti
so well under a system which had been described in
such dreadful terms a few days since at the Crown
and Anchor. But so it was in all other instances. The
country had advanced in general prosperity, as well as in
manufactures, since the Corn-laws, as well as before and
under that system; we had also been enabled to maintain
in security that great empire, which was so extensive
that the news of the happy event which we lately cele-
brated here, had probably not yet reached its confines.
It was, in fact, the avarice of speculation that had glut-
ted the markets, and thrown the operatives into distress.
The Hon. Member for Oldham told us that the produce
of a certain cotton article had advanced so prodigiously,
that the operative had now but 28s. for that labour
which formerly produced 965., yet the former, as
well as the latter price, was under the Corn-laws.
That Hon. Gentleman had thought fit to accuse Mem-
bers on that side of the House with adopting a species of
conduct at which he was very much surprised ; and the
Hon. Member fur Sheffield had said that Members on
that side of the House only came there to vote for their
own interests.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had
stated that with the greatest earnestness, although he
smiled at the time he stated it. For his own part, he had
no interest in this question ; he had no interest in the
high price of corn ; he had. never sold a quarter
of corn in his life.—(Hear, hear.) He employed a
large quantity of labourers, and nothing would
affiwd him greater satisfaction than to see them happy
and have plenty of bread, but he should not like to see
that object attained at the expense of the country. The
Hon. Member for Sheffield had asked how they liked the
charge that had been made against manufacturers on that
side of the House. He (Mr. Hardy) did not consider
the charge was made against that side of the House.
They had not sent out lecturers to every part of the
country to agitate the question, they had not used the
drum ecclesiastic for that purpose, he should have been
ashamed if such means had been used by any persons on
that side of the House. He was willing to admit that
the number of petitions on the subject of the Corn-laws
had increased—he admitted that those petitions
contained upwards of four hundred thousand signa-
tures.—(Hear, hear.) Those signatures were entitled
to the consideration of the House, but it could not be said that
they represented the whole manufacturers ; he thought it would
be apparent .o all that the Corn-laws were not for the protec-
tion of a class but for the benefit of the country generally. That
was the way in which the question was considered by those
with whom he had talked upon the subject. It was stated by
the Reverend Delegates that the laws were intended only
for the benefit of the landlords, and that assertion was made
in a manner not very becoming.—( Hear.) It was true when
they passed the resolution which he was about to read, it was
past nine o'clock, and some allowance might be made for them.
—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The resolution was : that it is
the opinion of this meeting, that the measure proposed by
her Alajesty's Government, so far from holding out the slightest
prospect of any relief of the distress of the country, is an insult
to a patient and suffering people, and that the Deputies look
upon the proposition as an insinuation that the landed aristoc-
racy are destitute of all sympathy with the poor, and must not
longer be permitted by an outraged people to pursue a policy
destructive to the country.—(Hear, hear.) He was sorry
to hear Members of Parliament use in that House
the same language as was indulged in at the Crown and
Anchor.—( Hear, hear.) The Honourable Member for Shef-
field warned the landed proprietors of the consequences of
maintaining the Corn-laws, and reminded them of the fate of
the French nobility.—(Hear, hear.) And the Hon. Member
for the Tower Hamlets, said if the Corn-laws were not re-
pealed there would be a rush upon the aristocracy, which
would sweep away not only the Corn-laws, but many things
besides.—( Hear, hear.) Was that the way in which the deli-
berations of Parliament were to be governed ?—Hear, hear.)
Why, if he were to send out agents and lecturers to procure
signatures to petitions for a minimum of wages and a maximum
of labour, he would undertake to abtain, not 400,000 but
800,000.—( Hear, hear.) And would it be decent for. him to
come into the House and threaten the aristocracy with revolu-
tionary consequences if they refused ,to accede to the
demands of those petitioners?-7,(klear, hear, hear.) They
had the language of .Gate' the spirit of
Cataline in their hearts: Ale (Mr,,Telseitt) hoped the Right
Hon. Baronet would go on.perseteriog in that policy and in
those principles which he had stated early and fully to the
whale country in his address to his constituents at.Tamworth,
when he had been called by his late Majesty to the helm of
affairs. If the Right Hon. Baronet did not receive all the
gratitude of the country, he (Mr. Hardy) was sure he de•
,erved it. Let them burn the Right Hon. Barenet's effigy.
( Hear, and a laugh.) • They all knew that that amounted to
little—that it was the mere vox popull,. which carried execra-
tion with it one day and applause the next. The Right Hon.
Baronet would despise such demonstrations, and go on in his
determination to do justice to the country.
Colonel FOX had great hesitation in venturing to address
the House on a subject such as the present, on Which conclu-
sions so opposite had been come to. However, he considered
it his duty to his constituents to say a few words on the subject.
His constituents perfectly concurred in the amendment of the
Hon. Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers). He
(Colonel Fox) was for total repeal, but not for immediate
repeal. In that alone he differed from his Hon Friend. The
measure which he (Colonel Fox) would support would be any-
thing short of repeal now—a measure enacting a fixed duty of
Bs. now, and reducing every year that duty by 25., until the
total repeal was effected. But immediate repeal he could not
support. He should, therefore, not vote on the question.
He considered there were occasions when opposing or voting for
a motion was so contrary to one's feelings that one ought not
to vote on either side.

Mr. H. H. LINDSAY supported the proposal of Sir R.
Peel. They heard much in that House of class legislation,
but if ever there was anything that would lower its character,
it would be this, that in dealing with the great interests of the
country 1t descended to class legislation, by agreeing to the
proposition of the Hon. Meinber for Wolverhampton. Its ob.
ject was to inflict injury eu the agricultural interest.—(No,
no.) No ! did they not hear of an aristocracy and a landed
interest, who had been in the enjoyment of advantages for a
long time, and of which they ought to be.deprived ? Did they
not hear this out of the House, and occasionally echoed within
its walls ? This would certainly be class legislation, and he
doubted much if it would be a benefit to the manufacturers.
On these grounds he himself, and those on his side of the
House, looked on the proposition of the Honourable Member
for Wolverhampton as injurious to agriculture, and not bene-
ficial to manufactures, and he therefore should give it his de-
cided negative. With rest ect to a fixed duty, its principle had
been abandoned by the gentlemen who had advocated it. The
Noble Lord, the Member for the City of London, had declared
his intention of maintaining the principle of a fixed duty at all
risks, and let corn be at 'what price it might ; yet he had de-
parted from that resnlution. One authority on the subject,
however, had since that period proposed to give the Government
power to relax the fixed duty whenever they might see occa-
sion, and the Noble Lord himself had proposed the other even-
ing to do away with the fixed duty, so soon as the price of corn
should reach 745. He objected to both these plans.
The first was calculated to held out an induce-
ment to popular clamour and agitation, and the
second to foster gambling speculations ; therefore he was op.
posed to the scheme of a fixed duty. lie approved of the plan
of the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, be-
cause, in his opinion, it carried out the two objects which
ought always to be kept in view in legislating on the subject.
In the first place, it relieved the people from the pressure of a
high price; and, in the second, it removed from the trade in
foreign corn that gambling character by which it had hitherto
been distinguished. It had been said that considerable time
must elapse before a cargo of corn could be received from
America to this country after having been ordered. He per-
fectly agreed with the Hon. Member, when he said that two
months was as little time as could be expected. Now he
(Mr. Lindsny) would take leave to make a suggestion
to the House, that if worth anything., he was sure the Right
Honourable laronet, the Member for Tamworth, would give
it his consideration. An objection had been made in regard to
corn from America, in consequence of the time elapsing before
its arrival in this country. Now, would it not be better when
a merchant sent his order, he should be allowed to enter the
corn at the time of shipment, paying the duty payable in this
country on the date of the shipment. In that case, if he found
that corn had fallen in price during his voyage, a rise in the
duty would not affect him, although in his case, it would affect
the revenue; so on the other hand, if the price of corn
had risen, and the duty fallen, his case whould bene-
fit the revenue, and a falling duty would not be injurious
to the merchant. Therefore in either case it would not injure
the revenue, nor the agricultural interest, and he thought it
would be of some benefit to the merchant who was sending his
manufactures to America, and wished to obtain a good and
safe return. He (Sir. Lindsay) would venture to throw out
the suggestion to the House, with all humility,
confi-
dent that if it was worth anything, it would receive full
feelingcon-
con-
sideration. He apoligised for intruding upon the House, but
he thought it his duty to make this snggestion. He would
say that he felt the greatest interest in the prosperity
of British commerce and manufactures. All his live
had been passed in commerce, and he owed all he
possessed to British industry, and all his future prospects were
connected with the prosperity of the commerce of the country.
On all objects which should extend commercial prosperity, he
(Mr. Lindsay) should be happy to unite with gentlemen oppo-
site ; but he never could consent to allow the agricaurat in-
terest to be neglected.—( Hear.)
Captain LAYARD solicited that that favour might be
extended to him which the House had so unanimously shown to
every new Member who had yet addressed them. Anxious as he
felt for the relief of the sufferings of the people, he could not
give his vote for the motion proposed by the Member for
Wolverhampton, because, he did not think it would be for the
interest of the people, or at all tend to alleviate their suffer-
ings, and as he could not vote for the motion of the Right Hon.
Baronet, his intention was not to vote at all on this occasion,
but he firmly believed that a fixed duty was the only measure
suited to the present exigencies.—( Hear.) When he (Captain
Layard) saw the Right Hon. Baronet advance to that box, it
appeared to him like a Pandora's box, for, from it went forth
ad kinds of evils, taxes, and such like, flew forth, but there it
appeared to him (Captain Layard) the simile ceased, for the
Right Hon. Baronet said there was no hope left. —( Cheers and
laughter.) It had been stated by Hon. Gentlemen opposite,
that the principal burdens on land were the land-tax, and the
Poor-law, let them look for themselves, however. and see what
these were Land-tax. Other taxes.
In England ............ 1,183,55/. 51,977,000/.
In France ...... :
.... :.. 23,250,000/. 17,500,0001.
In Prussia ............ 3,994,000/. 3,667,0001.
In Austria .......... 8,795,000/. 7,700,000/.
—(Cheers.) He (Captain Lavard) did not think, therefore,
that the land-tax pressed heavier on the owners of land in Eng-
land than in other countries.—( Hear, hear.) Then came the
f.oor-rates, they were heavy granted, but, in the year 1696,