The Sun.
London, England, 1827-02-16 00:00:00

upon the question before the. House, and to answer the objections
of the two Hon. Members who had preceded him. They had
laboured. to show that the proposed measure of emigration was a
bad one ; but he had to assure those Honourable Gentlemen, that
the arguments which they had used, and the facts which they
had stated, were calculated rather to confirm the opinion that
emigration was the only mode by which the present distresses
could be relieved. The -Hon Member for Wicklow had said that
Irish labourers, pressed by the distresses of their own country,
came over to this, from whenae they were sent back again to
Ireland; now he (Colonel Torrens) would ask whether it would
not be better to remove and provide for them permanently, than
to have them sent backwards and forwards from this country to
Ireland like so many shuttlecocks, as was now the case, and that
to without their condition being at all bettered ? The other
Hon, Gentleman had talked about a portion of the capital of this
country being transferred to Ireland. Now, the very passing of
this capital to Ireland, and fixing it upon the soil there, would
immediately throw a large portion of the population of Ireland
out of employ, and the redundancy of the population would still
exist. It was not the want of capital that caused the distresses
of Ireland ; it was the fact of her territory being too small
to support her population, and thus it was that the redun-
dancy of population met them at the very threshold of the
argument, and was the evil to which a remedy must be
first applied. This important question must be tried by its own
merits. In Ireland there was 4 redundancy of population, and
the Hon. Gentleman under the gallery had proposed to remedy
this evil by increasing the capital of that country. Now, he
would inform that Hon. Gentleman, that where there were not
fertile lands on which capital could be applied, it might happen,
that in one and the same country both capital and labour might
be redundant. Tie need not remind any Hon. Gentleman who
was conversant with these matters, that when double capital was
applied to land, it would not always give a double result. There
was a point at which, after repeated applications of capital to a
farm, any succeeding application of capital could not he success-
fully made, any more than it would be successful in the result to
apply large portions of capital, to lands of a certain degree of
want of fertility. The state of the question was this. England
had a redundant capital, and a redundant population; Ireland had
a redundant population, and in the colonies land was redundant.
Emigration, therefore, was merely the application of the redun-
dant capital and population of the United Kingdom to the redundant
land of the colonies. This would be to increase the national wealth,
and he would contend that it was the only means of putting
down our poor laws, which were a Spencean system, that would,
if persevered in, break down aristocratical distinctions, and reduce
every state to the same level of misery.—(Cheers.)—With respect
tc Ireland, he wished as heartily as any man, to see all disabilities
removed, and to see that country one with this, and governed by
the same laws ; but he must say, that he thought it a little too
much for the Hon. Member (Mr. Lomhe) to mix tip the question
of Catholic emancipation with that of emigration, and he would
venture to say, that if Catholic emancipation were granted to-
morrow, it would not relieve in the slightest degree the distresses
of Ireland. He would add one word about the expense of cann-
ing this projected emigration into effect. Great stress had been
laid upon this.; and some Hon. Gentlemen appeared to think that
the greatness of the expense would be fatal to the project ; lie,
however, was of opinion, that the expense of sending out a million
of people to Canada would be well repaid. They would occupy
20,000,000 acres of the best land which Government could give
them, and if capital were supplied theni, these acres would in a
few years be worth 1/. an acre, and.could they not then afford to
pay
.a shilling a year rent ? Honourable Members looked at
Canada as she now was, and not as she would be, in the case of
this emigration. They forgot that the benefits of this measure
would not be confined simply to agriculture. He was convinced
that this measure was founded upon the best principles of political
economy; it was collecting the scattered elements of wealth, and
applying them successfully ; it was enabling them to remedy the
distresses of Ireland, and to get rid of the poor laws ; and it would
spread the British name, the British laws, and the British religion
throughout all climes of the world.

Mr. BRIGHT, although not prepared to agree
entirely with the Hon. Members who had preceded him, yet did
not think that the measure proposed was calculated to succeed.
He denied that the proper mode in which the emigration ought to
be conducted was pointed out by the report, although convinced
of the benefit which must be derived from emigration wisely regu-
lated. The Hon. Member proceeded to comment upon the evi-
dence contained in the report, from which he contended it ap •
peared, that the results stated could not be accomplished. The
experiment of emigration from Ireland, as far as it had been tried
upon a different system, had answered. He approved of the grant
of a sum of the public money for the settlement of persons in
Canada ; but in order to the immediate success of that measure,
the country ought to be properly surveyed and mapped. To ac-
complish this object, he should gladly support the expenditure of
40,0001 or 50,0001., and he thought it would be a meanness un-
worthy of this country, and of the object to which it was to be ap-
plied, to object to a grant which, if well laid out, must in the end
prove highly beneficial as well to the nation, as to the persons for
whose relief it was immediately intended. He objected, however,
to the fantastical modes in which it was intended to carry the pro-
posed measure into effect, by prohibiting the building of cottages,
because it was proved that as soon as the poor who had inhabited
them were removed, others would he found to supply their places.
The effect of this would be to introduce a sort of new poor law
into Ireland. He had hitherto heard that it was a blessing to
Ireland that they had no poor laws. He had never felt nor be-
lieved that it was so ; but whatever might be its advantages, they
would be destroyed by the proposed measure. He referred to the
state of the Irish colonies, as a proof of the value of the boon
which a well-regulated system o4f emigration would prove to the
population of Ireland and Scotland.

Mr. -BROWNLOW rejoiced that in all the ob-
servations which had been addressed to the Home by Hon. Gen-
tlemen who opposed the measure, their objection had been con-
fined wholly to the details, the principle of the system remained
untouched. It was clear that the means of the country were not
only disproportioned to the population, but that the population
had become vastly redundant, as measured with the means of em-
ployment. He believed he might say that two-thirds of the people
of Ireland were unemployed. The Hon. Member for Bristol had
objected to the details of the measure, although lie had azreed
must fully in its importance. It was said that the plan proposed
was a crotchet of the Hon. Secretary ; that as every roan had his
hobby, this was that which the lion. Secretary chose to ride; anal
yet it could not he denied that the evidence and the reports were
va7uable and authentic. These, however, might be dispensed
with, and yet there would remain enough to make out a very
strong case as to the superabundance of the population in Ireland.
He alluded particularly to the evidence given before the Irish Corn-
mates by Major Wilcox, who stated, that in the county of Lime-
rick there was a great superabundance of population, owing to the
people living together in cottages in great numbers, and having
a scanty means of subsistence from the few acres, of land
which were attached to them : to that of Mr. Dunn,
who said that in the Queen's County there was so great
a want of employment, that not more than one person
in six had sufficient work ; while from 4d. to sd, a day was the
average rate of payment to labourers; and to that of the Knight
of Kerry, who said that the poor people in his neighbourhood
were glad to go a long way from their homes to procure employ-
ment, by which they earned no more than twopence a day. He
believed that, as a general position, these facts might be somewhat
overstated ; but he knew that starvation existed to a great extent
in Ireland. It was one of the results of this state of things that
had caused so extensive art emigration to Scotland, the greater
part of the west was peopled by Irishmen. But it was not to
Scotland alone that the evil effects of the redundancy of the popu-
lation in Ireland extended themselves. None of the steam-packets
came from Ireland to Liverpool, without bringing some of the people
of the former country, who could now procure a passage for 41. or
sd. per head. The consequence must be, that the same results
must he experienced here as in Ireland; labourers would be to
be had for 4d. or sd. is-day, and riot only the labouring peo-
ple would be reduced to a privation similar to that which was felt
in Ireland, but the moral feelings and the people's ways of thinking
and acting would be reduced to that standard which he was ashamed
to admit existed in Ireland. The evil would then be, and thie
would be at no distant period, felt and complained of in England,
as it was already felt and complained of in Scotland. What then
must be done with it? Hon. Gentlemen said, do nothing, and it
will cure itself. What ! let famine and pestilence do their work ?
Leave such a state of things alone, and leave the wretched people
who suffered under it to die by starvation or disease ! Anti this
because it was thought the evil would cure itself; that in a few
years improvident marriages would cease, and all would be well
again. But what was the fact ? The population of Ireland had
doubled within the last 20 years, arid was still increasing. This
reasoning was altogether false—false
distress
Ireland,tralesis)elicongregated
together gd brteeouge,
aaaatunnestdy
country, e,
an,,ier esunkfalseaaspa edrpiiptioltrioi,
as
iit was opposedfor when t ofapr.
et e ;)
oi le
r they became desperate and reckless of all consequences. The
evidence, too, of Dr. Doyle, stated that the people
together for the purpose of keeping up the. animal beat
in the inclement season, and by this means also the popu-
lation was increased. There was then no alternative but emigra-
tion. He was asked what security he could offer to the House,
that, when even this had been adopted, to whatever extent, the
country would not still be in the situation of the 50 daughters of
an uufortumate gentleman who were doomed to till tuba from

which the water escaped as fast as they poured it into them, and
that although they might be always changing, they would never
lower the level of the population. The security which he had to
offer was, that which had arisen from the experience of the Irish
landholders, and which had taught them to adopt a different me-
thod of letting their farms. They had found out, that to con-
solidate their estates was better than to subdivide them.—
Many landlords in Ireland had anxiously endeavoured to bet-
ter the condition of their tenantry by allotting their farms on
more advantageous terms than formerly, but, with the best
intentions, they had failed to effect their object. It was
found necessary, therefore, to introduce into Ireland, a new
law, called the law of landlord and, tenant, which was
now working its progress, but without any beneficial results.
He (Mr. Brownlew) knew at this moment, of a gentleman
who possessed an estate of 6,000 acres, 4,000 of which were
unprofitable hog. On the remaining 2,000 acres there were up-
wards of 3,000 unhappy peasants settled, whose means of living
were as scanty as the space which they occupied was confined.—
(Hear, hear.)—The Hon. Member for Wicklow said, leave the
Irish peasants where they are, but what was to become of their
still increasing families? How were they to be provided for ? How,
(said the Hon. Member) but by consolidating farms, and abandon-
ing that ruinous system of subdivision which had too long brought
misery and distress upon the country. But the. House should look
to the situation of the unfortunate Irish peasants, if that plan were
followed. Driven front their native haunts, they would soon be
dispersed through the country, seeking for employment without
food or shelter. • Was it not, therefore, the bounden duty of the
Legislature to prevent that unnatural, that frightful stream of
want, misery, and pauperism from flowing over to this country
from unfortunate Ireland, and thus arresting the progress of disease
and death in all their dreadful malignity 2—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BRIGHT explained.
Mr. BARING observed, that if particular indivi-
duals in that house, anti the country generally, seemed to evince
a lukewarmness towards the subject now under discussion, he
was quite sure that it did not arise from not feeling sufficiently
the importance of the subject of emigration ; but that doubts,
very serious doubts, had arisen as to the practicability of carrying
into effect the views of those by whom the measure of emigration
was so ably and warmly advocated, some contending that the
plan proposed would prove ineffectual; while others grounded their
objections on the expence it would cost the country. Indeed, all
gentlemen seemed to be agreed on the latter point ; but when an
Hon. Member stated to the House that the settlers at Canada
were scarcely better provided with the comforts and necessaries of
life than the Irish peasants, he (Mr. Baring) mast give his dis-
sent to that observation.
The Honourable Member alluded to explained.
Mr. BARING resumed. From personal observa-
tion he could state that the condition of the settlers at Canada, com-
pared with that of the Irish peasants, formed a striking contrast ;
for a more prosperous, healthy, and contented race of persons than
the former could no where exist. An honourable gentleman had
said, that the settlers in Canada, after toiling for some years,
were only able to clear about fifteen or twenty acres of ground
for their own use ; but even inch a process, attended as it
was with very considerable difficulties, must, of necessity, be the
work of time, and when the land was once fit for the purpose of
agriculture, it was surprising to witness the fertility with which
it grew crops of wheat and other produce. Our colonies in that
part of the world were producing a race of thriving, rational and
contented beings ; and looking to Ireland, we found in her pea-
santry the exact reverse. Would it not, therefore, be an act of
the greatest humanity to devise some means of relief for the unfor-
tunate peasantry of Ireland ? What the means were by which
an object so desirable could be effectually accomplished, was ano-
ther consideration ; and although there might be differences of
opinson as to the extent to which relief should be afforded, still it
was quite clear that whatever
_plan should be finally adopted, and
however limited that plan might be, it could not fail of doing
good. The Honourable Secretary (Mr. Horton) had, as he un-
derstood, brought forward the present motion with a view not
only to learn the feelings of the house upon it, but also to ascer-
tain how far the country at large was interested in the discussion.
The first question which naturally arose was this—whether we could
open a sufficient vein for the purpose of emigration, and how far
the opening of that vein would be consistent with the resources
of the nation. The greatest advantage that any country could
enjoy, was to be able to spread its population. It was that power
of spreading her people over a vast extent of country that gave to
Russia a great superiority over other countries; and the conse-
quence was, that in no part of Europe there existed less of phy-
sical distress. To the United States of America the same obser-
vation might be applied. The people of this country subscribed
large sums to alleviate the distresses of Ireland when her unfortu-
nate population were sinking from want. But the sums collected
on those occasions only deferred the evil day, and afforded no ulti-
mate relief. He was satisfied, however, that if some proposition
were suggested that would be likely to extend permanent relief,
that the people of England would again come forward and lend
their aid in promoting so humane a cause. The Hon. Secretary
(Mr. Horton) had suggested a plan of raising money by the parishes,
but it was his (Mr. Baring's) opinion, that such a measure
could never be carried into effect with the least probability of suc-
cess. He had made himself some experiments, and the result
proved that it would be very difficult to obtain from the parishes
the necessary funds ; anti supposing that plan were adopted, and
that 400,000 or 500,000 persons were sent out of the country
at different periods of time, would any Honourable Member ad-
vise such a method of paying off debts ? He repeated, that the
experiment would be dangerous in Canada; and with all his re-
spect for the Honourable Mover, of whose zeal in the cause of hu-
manity there could be no question (Hear, hear), he must beg leave
to differ from him with respect to this part of the measure.
Gentlemen who knew any thing of parish rates, and the way in
which they were in general collected, must see that the proposi-
tion o( the Honourable Secretary, respecting the raising of money
by annuities, must fail, and they must feel the utter impossibility
of effecting such a measure with the smallest prospect of success.
lie begged the particular attention to the subject now before the
House of the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the
Home Department. He hoped lie would look into the question,
and he was sure that the Right Honourable Gentleman would find
it less repulsive than lie seemed to consider it. The Honourable
Gentleman then alluded to the Acts by which captains of ships
were restricted from conveying passengers from the United King.
dom, without complying with certain regulations regarding food
&c., and seemed to infer that those Acts might operate agains

emigration.
Mr. HORTON observed that the restrictions to
which the Hon. Member alluded were removed.

Mr. BARING in continuation observed, that if
something like a bounty were given to captains of ships convey.
ing emigrants, it might operate as a stimulus to their exertions to
promote the comfort and- convenience of those whom they con-
veyed. Some suitable preparations should also be made to pro-
vide for the reception of the emigrants on arriving at their desti-
nation ; care should also be taken that they should be sent with
all convenient facility to whatever settlement they were intended
for, otherwise a great deal of inconvenience might arise. The
Hon. Gentleman concluded by observing, that the country was
very much indebted to the zeal and talents displayed by the Hon.
Secretary fur the Colonies, who brought forward the present mo-
tion.--(Hear, hear!)
lAtivrithßarrei
Mr. PEEL felt anxious, in consequence of the
pemadrsoentaol
hreimfe,retnoce
ewxphliaclint th:islvioien;_sGanendtlfe.emelianngs(
the important subject which was now before the House,snpge)c t had
o
and he
hoped his Hon. Friend, the Colonial Secretor
would do him
the justice to say whether lie (Mr. Peel) had not always taken a
warm and lively interest in the • piesent question, whatever the
Hon. Gentleman wliu last addressed the House inferred to the
contrary._

Mr. BARING said something in explanation.
Mr. PEEL-resumed. If he had taken rather a me-
diumiview of the question, if he bad not advocated it in a way that
its supporters might have wished, he hoped that he should not,
therefore, be accused of displaying coldness to wards the question.
His Hon. Friend who had introduced the measure to-night, knew
that he had frequently and anxiously consulted with hint on the
subject of emigration. In the view which he (Mr. Peel) had
taken of the question, it struck him forcibly that it was
essential to success not to proceed at first on a scale of
emigration too extensive and magnificent, but rather to
proceed by a rational and quiet mode to effect the object in
view.—(Hear !)—That there were facilities for carrying the plans
proposed into execution none could deny. His Noble Friend at
the head of the Colonial Department, his Hon. Friend who
brought forward the present motion, and himself had repeated in-
terviews on the subject, the result of which was, that a gentle-
man, a Mr. Cockburn, whose zeal and talents were unquestion-
able, had gone out to Nora Scotia and elsewhere, for the purpose
of personally observing how far the proposed plans of emigration
were likely to succeed. He had instructions to extend his inqui-
ries to various subjects connected with the agricultural prospects
of those places which he was.to visit, and' he was to make obser-
vations respecting the equality of the dit.Terent lands pointed out
for settlers.--(Hear, hear !)-I.lis Honourable Friend (Mr. W.
Horton) proposed no plan at present. He merely threw out sug-
gestions for the consideration of the House, and what was the
amount of the objections raised by the Hon. Member for Wick-
low? (Mr. Grattan.) Why, that the House should abatalQa the

plan proposed by his Honourable Friend, because it did
not go far enough for his purpose; but if the suggestion of
the Honourable Gentleman were to be acted upon, the
House might, in despair, abandon, in utter hopelessness, every
plan that would be at all likely to alleviate that deep-seated dis_
tress which could never be sufficiently deplored. He was of
opinion that a rational system of emigration would lead to effects
the most beneficial to the country, by affording facilities to its im-
poverished inhabitants of bettering their condition. And it was
idle to deny but we must expect a redundancy of hands, in a coun-
try where the mechanical arts were carried to such perfection.
The effect of the recent improvements in mechanics was to throw
upon the country a vast number of men who bad hitherto support-
ed themselves by labour. Such, for instance, had been the effect
of the discovery of the astonishing power of the loom. It threw
out of employment hundreds of thousands. If, therefore, we were
to go on improving mechanics as we had heretofore done, our
working population must be thrown out of employment according
as new inventions sprang up to supersede the labour of man.
Would it not, therefore, be an object the most to be desired,
that some efficient plan should be adopted by which those
poor unemployed persons might be rescued from wretched-
ness, and raised to a race of happy and contented beings ?
(Cries cf " Hear, hear, hear." )._.:.He was not prepared to pro.
nounce an opinion on the particular suggestions which had
that evening been referred to—he meant that relating to
the inquiry how far it might be practicable for the parishes,
whose poor-rates would be diminished by the removal of the
labourers chargeable upon them, to remunerate Government
for the expense which it must incur in their removal, and
that relating to the inquiry how far it would be expedient to re-
quire from the emigrants some remuneration for the parishes in the
shape of a quit-rent. He thought that those suggestions deserved
the deepest consideration before they were adopted, and whe-
ther they were practicable or not, nothing but good could result
from inquiring into them. It appeared to him desirable,
that the first experiment in emigration should be made with
men of fair character and industrious habits. He thought
that the suggestion of requiring from the emigrant a certain sum
as a quit-rent, was deserving of consideration. Whether it might
not fetter his energies to have the prospect of re-payment conti-
nually before his eyes, and whether such a prospect might not be
a temptation to him to quit his farm, after he had exhausted it,
were points which he considered as well worthy examination. He
conceived, however, that if the plan answered, the Government
might be amply repaid without a quit-rent. A quantity of 'land
might be reserved to Government in the midst of that allotted to
the emigrants. He had merely risen to state the qualifications
with which he approved the plan of his Hon. Friend the Colonial
Secretary ; and he trusted that what he had said would not lead
any person to suppose that-he was lukewarm in the support of a
plan which he verily believed to be of paramount importance.
Mr. HUME then addressed the House amid con-
siderable confusion, occasioned by the number of Members who
left the House, and the loud conversation of many of those who
remained. He contended, that to employ 20,000,000/. in car-
rying to a foreign country one out of every 18 members of our
population, was a wasteful employment of the public capital, inas-
much as the void occasioned by suck& measure would be made up
in three years. In proof of that position, he read a long extract
from the evidence attached to the Report on Emigration ; from
which it appeared that the void which had been occasioned in the
population of the village of Marsden, in Kent, by the emigration
of 52 of its inhabitants,—which was one in eight,—had been
immediately made up by the arrival of fresh labourers from other
places. He likewise argued, from the evidence of Lieutenant-
Colonel Cockburn, that at the end of seven years from their first
settlement, the emigrants would by no means he able to repay to
Government, or their parishes, the expenses of their emigration.
The practical result of this project for emigration might, in his opi-
nion, be expressed in a very few words--it would be to send away
beggars from England to make beggars of those who remained in it
behind them ; for what other result could follow from sending
20,000,000/.out of thecountry, which if it were left in the country,
must be expended in some way or other among the working classes ?
From every information which he had been able to obtain, he
was convinced that this project of emigration would both imme-
diately and ultimately be a losing concern to the country. It
had been said, however, that it would lead to increased prosperity.
Now, if 20,(700,000/. were to be divided in this country among
the persons whom it was destined to take from it, it would pro-
duce to them an annual annuity of 15/. a year, (a laugh), and
would keep them in happiness here. Besides, the evils of Ire-
land could not be cured by emigration. The system which pre-
vailed in that country was bad, and required a stronger cure than
that of emigration. If the House wished emigration to be pro-
ductive of any good effect, they must repeal the absurd restric-
tions which they had placed upon it. At present, no emigrants
could go direct to the United States. They must proceed thither
by way of Canada, a regulation which imposed an additional ex-
pence of 10/. upon every person emigrating. The restrictions
however, were as useless in point of practice, as they were absurd
in point of theory. Whilst he made these objections to the plans
now proposed, he thought it right to state, that he was anxious
to promote emigration upon proper principles, and to add that
the sentiments expressed by the Hon. mover and seconder of the
amendment were such as the House ought to follow.
Mr. W. NORTON, in reply, said, that it could
only he ascertained by minute inquiries whether emigration on a
large scale was advisable ; and it was with a view of making those
minute inquiries that he recommended the appointment of the
present Committee. An Hon. Member opposite hail told him on
a former occasion, that he was not proceeding in this subject upon
sonnd principles of political economy. Would the Hon. Gentle..
man give him credit in future for sound principles when he told
him
atthtaent
thioentdadiarat
lie had questionswnup,3Osbniittd them e uponem o
this subject
one
bjectwtioth
and care
M'Culloch—and that Mr. M'Culloch had answered them, in a
manlier perfectly agreeing with the view which he (Mr. W. Hor-
o
fht:einrl
e),l
.anda dslafpi
Atehtvhei previously lot yine
.teaxkpeen Membermf et them
nuilnd emigrationt ae tfer House?
to pil:
a2dAe9noi
EHlofol nst.h2ll3e I
evi-
dence, ni
deuce, he would Bud there an elaborate detail of the success of that
plan, from which it would appear that the property of 120 of the
settlers who then emigrated was now valued at 7,000/. on a very
lowt: aiissiebsrts: i,nnaaet
information
particular
lt
al
desirable,i
rat instance,there na-anstdhl iafitt)trlee truthiagrarn
eitaisls
ottonh the
CanadalodSetrtit perse-
vere atn-
bast
proceeded
aforio.fi
eng
italw
lii:;onrodt countryns
f.ro from
the United States. He thought
Ir. BRIGHT, the amend-
ment:e-f4lrilfnt-I%eahrs,iisl
Wilmot
negatived 9
nw, without
Secretary
eetlh,esoirrigTinhaolmr:
was
g HriCommitteerrrt.Baring,
DKaeievtviaitlrhi wDavis,
%;rs.
Douglas,appointedTorr e n.Bl, r
.5:
io
Wood,
Brown-
low, 3carrr.riesdp,rainngd tßheiefeo,lloAwirin.
Ir. Leslie FostsoetrAi Lord,ocnia nd'
LniFaeaib
°aid:
ucLi
‘iesecr. Le..
ri eseLv:
Leader
silaloditnrer.r. Gower, Lord
Moberly,
Alexander
Denison, s c
rn. t
Stanley,i I ot• p e hs,
rM .
Henry MauricepPar-
nell, r Fitz Gerald, Sir James Graham, Mr. Stuart Wortley, Mr. Frank-
low, Mr. Francis Baring.

COSTS ON PRIVATE BILL APPEALS.
Mr. LITTLETON said, that the machinery of the
resolutions which he had formerly introduced, relative to appeals
on Private Bills, would be incomplete, if the House did not sanc-
tion an additional resolution, subjecting the party appealing to
the payment of all costs and expences, in case the Committee of
Appeal declared the petition to be frivolous and vexatious. It

was necessary that the House should do this with as little delay
as possible, because he knew. that one report at least was about to
be presented, relative to which it was probable there would be an
appeal. He had, sometime since, proposed two measures for the
purpose of carrying his object into effect. One was to compel
the petitioner or petitioners to enter into recognizances to defray
costs as might have been incurred before:;the Committee, in
case the appeal should be considered frivolous and vexatious.
Some gentlemen, however, especially of the learned profes-
sion, objected to this, on the ground that there existed no
precedent, where one branch of the Legislature assumed the
power of taking money from individuals. In all cases of
that nature, it was observed, it must he the concurrent act
of the three Estates. He next proposed, that the party or
parties appealing should deposit a certain sum of money to
meet the expenses incurred, if the appeal were deemed fri-
volous and vexatious. Against that, however, it was objected
that where the parties were poor, the call for a deposit of
money would effectually prevent the appeal, be the grounds of it
ever so just. He had, therefore, in the interval since the former
resolutions were carried, endeavoured to collect the opinions of
the gentlemen (especially of the legal profession) who had ob-
jected to these two propositions ; and he had now the concurrence

of all those legal authorities in the propriety of the resolution he
was about to lay before the House. His proposition was, that one

i
oforr Ina
ocreer toaf ti
n eiLlana, rtes
covenanting
shouldt
o defray
esnu tceh;into a
costs andrie charges;'a l
bond,
as
might be incurred by the other side, in case the committee of
appeal reported the petition to be frivolous and vexatious. The
lion. Gentleman then moved his resolution, which provided that,
Within two days after the prayer of any petition for an appeal had
been granted, or at any other period which the House might think
advisable, the petitioner or petitioners should enter into a bond or
obligation, the form of which should be prepared by the chief
clerk of the House, in the penal sum of 5001., and two sureties in
5250/. each, to defray all costs, charges, and expences (to be as-
sessed by one of the clerk, cif the Rouse), which might hays been