The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-24 00:00:00

t0,,„245er50n possessed of real income should be taxed to a !
!'arra.at greater amount than those whose incomes were flue-
e• He supposed that such an amendment to the present
4:nwould not be consistent with the views of the Right Hon.
et, but he must say that such an amenlment would do
It with a considerable portion of the unpopularity that must
417. to every such measure. The Right HOA. Baronet had
1,411,,,5ted; from the class in Schedule D., an amount of
the 15`,'Yul• ; if it were consistent with the views of
tRo Right Honourable Baronet to tax this class in
Per cent. instead of three, it would make a
lie'Ftton, of one-third from the estimate, or about 400,000 i.
-I,,,..!'°Ught it not impossible to make up that difference from
Val• other source. He might point out some articles in the new
oithe change in which he could not see the necessity of
followed P• He could not see that so much advantage 11. attend the change in the timber duties as was supposed. ar.reduction on timber wag calculated at 600,030/. Notice
4-tatut amendment had been put on the paper to exempt this
..,fir°lll the tax altogether, but this would not be at all fair.
j,_ar; hea) There was no reason why large incomes
thftrorough the medium of trade should be exempt snoreAn
gee:1111Z" Pr°PerrY ; but a difference might fairly be made.
°ettl had arisen when great exertion was necessary, andd
the n.e„,11 opposite had not shown that they could have raise
tit% wriesahly_,re.sources without. resorting to the mode of taxa-
-40 alter .eau been repudiated by that House. He could see
ti,e
en native butt° adopt the present rrinciple, and he thought
"tuntrY Would submit to such a plan for a time.—(Hear.)
,itsitilltitrd that, in three years, they
.should. be in a
" that could justify them in taking off the tax.
was an
only say that his belief and opinion was, thatf it theon
bthe 47 an unpopular one, that unpopularity ought to all
ring %lidera of those who caused the:deficiency, and who,
.oppo left it, were not now prepared to assist their present
.!enritic,ll-4,' and not on the shoulder; of those who were endea-
remove it _(Cheers. )
Nitti NNISON D'EYNCOURT had listened to the
• treat °` the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down with
Atillesi3,ey-aszt:rreti..e,ile quite agreed with him, that if any stern
f
imposition sof the tax existed, the people. o
orfeirrY would to a man strive to bear a fair portion of it
ti/Int 'try t°,,keeP up public credit, and meet the enemies o
'ar ,the ',a he did not believe that the great necessity
b into'aZ existed. He thought it should be called
frog
,a me tax alone, because it was quite different
V%iCtivPr"ertY tax, because it pressed upon the H
various
Matt ;4
,Interests of the country. The Right onh.
.I.taa;
wee lAit' thought that
r said there was no resource but sue
e
if the measures of the late Govern-

Aich (e earri d `,".
,:..., esist.„....-eo they would go tar to remove the necessity
• ja",oehi "" (Hear, hear)—and while they were untried he
• tos, teaeittsto any other taxes. They were going to have
''' , gt //loch wuat which should be reserved for a time of war,
,oblleere e ?aid give an impression to foreign countries that
11*•tiet,a loausted. That appeared to him one of the greatest
• ,
,14°,4th lif,,,,;,;:ethe tax. He was surprised at the speech of the
' ' , a.„ts.,atii4
__ r for the county Limerick. It appeared that as
1 fnio4„,not.press upon his country he would be willing, to
' {l'll4 Meng it on the people of England.—( Hear.) The
,:itallieCentbers on his (Mr. I'. D'Lyncoures) side of the
~.'h.,
j''.enthe,,;`` oeYer taken that course with respect to that Hon.
. 'it r a eonntry—( Hear, hear)—and the Hon. Gentleman
ikilre est assured that no example he could set them of that
ry:II:1°111d induce them to follow it. After hearing the
s• ' ak,,h;t,"„e non. Member for Berkshire, whl had just sat
Cuted b‘alr* 1'
- O 1,•• Y the D'Evneourt) was not surprised at the course
s' aad-Wers•—•( Opposition cheers.) Ex uno disco omnes
Right Hon. Gentleman in imposing silence en
• eheers s . . „ •
Li
t tt,,, 0„ • ) He was satisfied that if Honourable yen-
' . ' i7•l tP°,ite would open their mouths and give the House
, ,Z 'fati..,opinions, that the greater part of them would
1:V.4,0t, to express opinions of a nature similes
.s * rtnereatch had been expressed by the Hon. Member for
't. , 6.1 hiP), • ."" (Cheers.) He (Mr. T. D'Epicourt) knew
'•,,,'•ialellet;' and honourable feelings entertained by many Hon.
' ''',7_4th, en oneorite, and he could not bring himself to believe
111;a1;71f,,illeauld lend themselves to class legislation of this no-
' ee
. -:,'• ILL or ti,rs )—that they would press unduly upon the in-
'‘aittt,,...,,us country to sustain the landed and the West In-
.:, tfamviiTsts.--( Hear, hear.) It was his (Mr. T. D'Eyti-
. 211:,etioictcntion at the proper time to move a considerable
,-, • ll•ofthia the tax to be paid by the trades and the iirofes-
a',L4,, trade.
,! hazy douse
If a man laid out 20,000/.
3..L.ffe
,ga.int.:.le more hazardous the speculation the greater were
In ,i,e. , The more hazardous the speculation, the larger
11_91 ie galas expected, because this capital was returned to
.n.k
~_,!,elishape of income ; but the whole concern might
, . ',lilt 0174 before it was completed, and then it was the ria-
-81-0%) irtal, and not the nature of income.—(Hear,
,-.. Ve tax ,_` the interest on capital was 20 per cent.,
•i,sTWoultri'suld amount to one-sixth, and if to 10 per cent.
i'elitioste r one-third ; and he should therefore propose
2d, ; au of 7d. in the cases of trades and professions, it should
(Ithat•4l, the pound, which wes somewhere about one-fourth
tk.t no telss Proposed. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said,
iise_ kot
~Tirces were left to the country but this one. Now,
41:4 Government,
Gentleman had admitted that the proposals of
Lk had they been adopted, would have cert-
.,. Bit Re income unnecessary.tax
s' 414r.'f.11,•t;EL dissented.
'',e°,ll. G_ " EYNCOURT, then, would say it for the Right
~ r itot entlernan.—(Laughter.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite
• Zia th„,Perhaps hear that admission ; but it was quite clear,
';'-444111.711 e h'itlatement of the Right Hon. Baronet, that if that
:.)e eefitieheen adopted, there would have then been bat a
~4,,,ltight ii!cY• He thought thi3 could be made out in figures.
„,b.,Z11; no_ non. Baronet expected one million from the tax on
,17)!•iteatt,,7 under the Bs. duty he might have reasonably ea-
,)L ii 01,0_7 Millions, and this would have prevented the resorting
~, trs of trrtY tax. They must recollect that twenty-six mil-
HtieteE..aaes had been repealed since the war; and he (Mr.
1 ;lite% tErcourt) thought that, out of that twenty-six millions of
t;i2ro-47.._e surely was one to make up the small deficiency of
„psi, un, without resorting to that impost upon the menu-
, .F.,ilikand trading interest of the country. He coual tell
`;t7lts
_his t Honourable Baronet that he had received letters
elk24th (Mr. Tennyson D'Eyncourt's) constituents, and they
'.t,''''Ttheat in consequence of their known political feelings they
' ' ''' Placed in a very awkward position with respect to the
st. a
si• ' •„„, of the income tax. He was quite certain such eon-
.W' 4., ,•us could slot be imputed to the Right Hon. liaronet,
~,...„Ple tax would bring !the taxpayer under the control
, , eatawsvernment to a considerable extent, he had no doubt.
..:, ,4;, ttit my that the Right Hon. Baronet had not given suf-
•e-: thatioe for consideration of this income tax. 'the forms
ItateP;ls! did not permit the people of this country to come
t,ltilre .tneir views ot the subject, and he thought that a rea-
t,,,iiii oietirne time should be given for meetings to take place
~,..tatidiZetnat,aec:ei ding
!'s d hut g the proposal. The Right Hon. Baronet said, and
to the firms of that House, they
Ns, , PPoPtunite for consideration when the resells-
dia., , were passed. .1 hat was-perfectly true, but he knew better
a, IV ne ( Mr. T• DT
:,.'4...isieti , • Yncourt) did, that after they came to a
• thou Pun that
4,, . rm.., Pa that the Hon. Gentlemen who gave
,IN,te.e.orrvenient to i eof that resolution, would find it very
Orefore reeorcre a vote afterwards against that vote they
4,,istdOStify that
vote,
; but they would, on the contrary, be inclined
Ptht, this wu", whatever was said against it. Now
.he
40;Firt. those as a reason why time should yet be given to
I,,l•ls4oRight Non. Baronet,
especially considering the secrecy
for which he did not blame him.
•4sr.tO tit't•lls-tnade his statement, and he thought it was indecent
ape
„-tltd she y not to give a little more time than that proposed
•• ,t1,1,€., first vote was given on the subject. Having stred
191 e . 'Mho • '
~. b„„ %%4_ _pe the Rightßarodet would be inclined to
, J'sc he Zitirther time, and he hoped that hereafter it would
~ted7si.dered inconsistent if Hon. Gentlemen opposite
rer la
co_netir votes. He hoped the Right Hon. Baronet
th_aratjatiaa.,,ler this, and he hoped he would introduce some
414.! he
tv_wit% regard to mercantile and professional men—
lAnts.....tirlid consider the effect it would have on foreign
fthlneo„,! inquisitorial nature of that tax. He (Mr. T.
-ePosisi,tl") could assure him he should give it his decided
%Sir J. .
.he.„l2. Geati_llElD said, that so far from agreeing with the
...101! given" an who had just sat down, as to further time
•1 fititlet ty to consider thissubject, he trusted the Right Hon.
4.'
,te.,y. 00.11,..1t1 take the sense of the House that night. He
~,ii°elsi ~.;`,. Reid) did not hesitate to declare that it was the
..:}ra busign_ lon of the mercantile interest of, the country, that
11a!t1e_,,,,",5. of the country was impeded by delay in that
, aaN)oo,fpnear, hear.) With that feeling he (Sir. J. R.
'• ' 'bat; its u not follow the example set by the Hon. Gentle-
ion , g.oing into discussion upon that great and important
• ',•"/disiiitedont he most be permited to say, that although
,••*, itate to PjaYing such a tax, still at the same time he did not
h,eh the utela,e, that under the existing circumstances in
,tais°oolo, c,Potry ,was placed, and considering her burdens,
sthttlitte co "'Nigh reluctantly, pay his quota.—( Loud laughter
~ estititet h. Pliositiox benches.) He felt himself bound to pay
',IS
,t7lat-'--,,7oorsidered a fair-and just complement to the Hon.
ia.,iti2.and h Limerick, who had so fairly spoken on that sub-
lts? to hat (Sir J. R. Reid) would have been peculiarly gra-
•• . tiaiell 04 t'r,_ seen his example followed by other Hon. Gen-
, ''‘oll, J. ,',Le same side of the Hottse.—( Hear, hear.) That
\I
~'lti dell tn• Reid) was a party man to a certain extent he did
~ kip% cut at the same time he was independent of the
'sktaetaiti, at,liaronet. He was connected with the commercial
,00.„.ohjeatu.,u although part of the Right Hon. Baronet's plan
'•• lesluakoettet, still he did not hesitate to declare to those
, vesityotteith that interest, that it was the opinion of the
%et h,,ttihe commercial interest that the course the Hon.
kuPri:lgh
all
1 taken was one which would carry him triumphantly
blited. He the difficulties with which he was Bur-
- toti., he
~. had been set down as a sanguine man,
tla,Ztioti mid not hesitate to declare that his firm
,' isaZilot sand belief was, that the Right Hon. Baronet
ttl nu, flinch, and he hoped he would not ; and he
h54i," in the course of three years or before, it would be
Its'l eikos'Y necessary to continue the tax which they were
I§4Btlon g•—(Hear, hear.) He would wit detain the
11, fee II", for he was a man of business —( Laughter)—
; INLatild,,ew,lould come to the point.— ( Renewed laughter.)
~ IS-17p what(to with the Right Hon. Baronet, be the cense-
atei
the
theY may.—( Loud ironical cheers. ) He im.
~,, to t,
Itaaiil that 4,7 Ma the question to the test that night. He be-
y' tii-mork h.:"eY had lost a great deal of time unnecessarily—the
• '' • tilatt°,nto,7lleen discussed over and over again. The trade of
44 qey ,4,Y was languishing in consequence, and he hoped
tbkati his cold finish the question that night, and he would
. • le,* 'tonce that all connected with the trade of the
• . „ di.t.lo/14,°1'bid., have no reason to complain.
„1 i,tskti"td th T) said the Hon. Gentleman who had just ad-
ITit,,i illthits aes f!ouse had made two most important admissions ;
scit.t,lakteroat
o'ne representative of a large body of the cominer-
.,, •,„_eaS,... f the country he should pay this tax with extreme
ii' !Itei.,, (Laughter)--and, secondly, that there was no
••• had7llrobability of the tax terminating at the time men-
. re, kid t Loud cries of " No, no.") The Hon Gentleman
''''' '•
I*1), he gh. %,, three
or four years—that he hoped it would not last
Pim ,J. Ituree or four years.
main, h REID rose, amidst loud cries of " Order," to
to 11% Yewut ha gave
or 4,1,,, way.
....k,4es. "1,--It certainly struck upon my ears as very like
re.,,,i- J. tt.
~ 14:Yrote 11E11) The Hon. Member's ears are perhaps dif-
'.' • Ileoti WAtt,"ee people's.—(Laughter, and cries of " Order.")
Lat, , asetik_" swid perhaps he had not ears which were fre-
: atoghter.,..4l to Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side--
this Ilea w , Under any circumstances the Right Hon.
Con g *as t I,:tlidYe the have
ti support of Gentlemen opposite, and
"nen n attonale of this taxation. A great many of the
heym*as, if PPOsite would have gladly taken the Bs., obnoxious
vtltha.'llitok. actahielwaeould have foreseen that the modification of
0 . e had , sto be obtained at the expense of an inc
fallys,_"re v.,‘" ad the pleasure of hearing this stated by those
settieuelilives,,"etnintly opposed to him six months ago. He
elan_ result tat that there was a better mode of arriving at the
again' in t,
_' that sought by this tax—the increasing defi-
at ail' t this" revenue. There had been an argument urged
' • It
h•le°o(cAo,..P.tlol:afil, in which he was bound to say he did not
Aa. It. wfiat was, that the income tax was a war tax
• • poutos-,,tee a. a.rd) did not consider it so.—( Hear, hear.)
et, tic ng ,) t f •
h /INS War U o necessity, whether that necessity
-atti Por out.
Another argument was what foreign
en %al chest think fthis ° • '
hOside ballet . 6 tax, arid that it would lower our
404 e that er in the estimation of the world. He did not
441 .. argillnent worth
p,_Net ears-hear yof the consideration of the
„rtioticyst,rh tw • ) Foreign countries were familiar with
I"atitpi_:f the. taxation, and many of them raised the larger
that
~,7 knew'" !Imes by direct taxation. Many of those
.. • hat
z,:yet,terint butapehttle. cf our indirect s}stem of taxation, and
iota of di to was unjustot what they did know. They thougnt
Ishtottli 4'5 ttaaati , and they had long since adopted a sys-
it. ot thev axedTo• As the R4l Mernhm for Liskeard had
' 'ne Was ' property, they taxed the fund from. which
th *or le em e •
thilt thi trig e asses , and they were therefore injuring
talent 1,,. system w—a (Hear, hear.) He had been told
' c••••-`4 a triet neeS and i: a _ great encouragement to fra.u7
Qhtty
1.11,,
expenses retplar management, and that if they
Yttot otY did 'nor n
, . they did not tax his income. In tht
My t 0,.., his enjoyments, but they taxed his want