The Sun.
London, England, 1842-08-08 00:00:00

Hon. Baronet ought to mention the names of the four
persons to whom be had alluded as having acted wrong.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the case had been alluded to
in the memorial presented by the merchants of London
to the Lord Chancellor in 1839, and in consequence of
which the Commission had been issued, on the labours
of which the present Bill had been founded. The
names of the parties had not been given in the memorial,
Mr. MASTERMAN thought the great blot of the
present law, was the power which it gave the official
assignees of getting considerable balances into their
hands. If instead of giving the official assignees the
power of receiving money, and paying it into the Bank,
they were to give the power of giving an order to the
party paying the money to pay it into the Bank
to the account of the Accountant-General of the
Court of Bankruptcy, the evil would be remedied.
Mr. AGLIONBY wished to know the date of the
transaction alluded to by the Right Hon. Baronet. He
thought it took place as far buck as 1801.
Mr. HAWES believed the case had occurred in 1801,
but he knew of a more recent case, which was before
the Lord Chancellcr the other day, in which, of five
Commissioners, one was the solicitor to the fiat ; and of
the others, three were creditors, and one was a debtor to
the estate.
Mr. JARVIS said the case cited by the Hon. Mem-
ber for Lambeth must have occurred under the old sys-
tem, because there were five Commissioners. the
Right Hon. Baronet quoted an opinion of Lord Eldon's
in 1801, and said it was for those who opposed this Bill
to show that the law had been altered. Why the law
had been altered by the 6th of George IV., and by the
more recent Act of William the Fourth. The
Commissioners were formerly . appointed by the
Chancellor on the nomination of the persons striking the
docket, now they were nominated by the Judges. The
periods of their meetings and their fees were all limited
by Act of Parliament. He was afraid from what had
fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet relative to the
strength of the opposition to be apprehended from
the seven hundred and forty Commissioners, that
theßill had been purposely delayed in the House of Lords,
and was now forced through the House of Commons at
this advanced period of the session, for the purpose of
endeavouring to suppress all legitimate opposition. The
opponents of the Bill could produce two cases of gross
misconduct on the part of the official assignees, quite
equal to those old cases which had been raked up by the
Right Hononurable Baronet and the Honourable
Member for Lambeth. That sort of misconduct would,
however, be rendered impossible by the adoption of the
suggestion of the Hon. Member for London. There
was, however, another objection which was insuperable.
It would be impossible to get respectable persons to be-
come trade assignees, if they were made the mere pup-
pets of the official assignees, as it was proposed to make
them under the clause.
Sir T. WILDE would rather the Bill had been post-
poned to next session; but he was bound to say that none
of the evils which had been dwelt on by his lion. and
Learned Friend, and by the Hon. Member for Leeds,
were essential to this clause, and that moreover the
whole of them might be easily remedied. Under the
existing system, when a person was declared a bankrupt,
the property was taken possession of by a messenger,
generally a sheriff's bailiff, who was hired at ss. a
day, and who gave no security ; and the choice
they had to make was between the messenger
and an official assignee giving security. Under the ex-
isting system, unless it were desired to carry on the
trade, cr unless an extent from the Crown were appre-
hended, there was no assignee appointed until after the
second public meeting of creditors. In the two cases to
which he had alluded the messenger was appointed
a provisional assignee. So much for the first step
of the proceedings. The official assignee was never
allowed to retain a balance of more than 1001. for each
estate in his hands. He was by law compelled to pay
the residue into the Bank of England, to the account of
the Accountant-General in Bankruptcy ; and many of
the Commissioners would not permit him to retain an
aggregate balance, from all the estates, exceeding
1,000/. in his hand. If it were desired to redeem pro-1
perty under the system of official assignees, there would
be no difficulty ; but, under the present system, it could
only be done before the appointment of assignees, calling
a general meeting of the creditors by advertisement in
the Gazette, who could authorise the petitioning cre-
ditors to redeem, but then they could not raise any
money until. after the appointment of assignees at the
said meeting of creditors, and even then the power of
creditors. was limited, and they were responsible
to the Lord Chancellor for what they might do.
The speeches which had been addressed to the Commit-
tee would lead persons to suppose that the trade assig-
nees had no control whatever. Why, he was prepared
to prove that they had just as much legitimate control
as they ever had. The trade assignees had at that mo-
ment the exclusive power of deciding when and how the
estate should be converted. The money was locked up
in the hands of the accountant-general until the necessity
arose for 'its application ; whatever money was wanted
could be obtained under the authority of a Gazette
meeting of creditors. When the system was first
introduced, it was confined to London, in order
to see whether the experiment would be successful.
The experiment bad been succtssful, and why was not
the system then extended to the country ? Was there
any reason to suppose that trade assignees in the country
were more diligent than trade assignees in London?
Were solicitors in the country more, respectable than
those in London ? Equally respectable, but not
more so. He thought the opposition to this clause
was founded in mistake. The system, when first in-
troduced into London, had been met with great preju-
dice by the London solicitors, but he believed that it now
gave universal satisfaction.
Mr. M. PHILIPS said he had no wish to perpetuate
the abuses of the present system, on the contrary, he
was very anxious for a revision of the law ; but he felt it
his duty to support the amendment of the Hon. Member
for Southwark. He wished to see the trade assginee
have a concurrent influence with the official assignee.
Mr. B. WOOD said that it was bis wish to give an
efficient protection to the creditors by the appointment of
proper trustees. He had known an instance in which a
party who had himself had judgment hanging over him,
had been appointed a trustee ; and the result
was that the creditors had been defrauded of one-
third of the money received from the bankrupt's estate.
After a few words from Mr. SCOTT,
The Committe divided, and the numbers were—
For the Amendment
Against the Amendment 52
Majority against the Amendment —36
The clause was then ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 50 was agreed to without any discussion.
On clause 51 being put,
Mr. M. PHILIPS wished to ask whether any com-
pensation would be granted to official assignees, in case
it should be found advisable, for them to retire.
Sir J. GRAHAM said thaLthe Bill did not contem-
plate such a case. Parliament could provide for it,
whenever it might arise, as they should think fit.
The clause was then ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses up to 58 were agreed to.
On clause 58 being proposed,
Mr. JERVIS said he wished to know upon what
statistics it was proposed that the number of the Com-
missioners should be confined to ten. He did not see
when Manchester alone would give occupation to three
Courts how ten could perform the duties.
Sir J. GRAHAM said that he would frankly tell the
Hon. Gentleman why the number ten was proposed.
The number of Commissioners in London were six,
and they performed the duties for 40 milesround London;
but the Lord Chancellor having communicated with.
those Commissioners, they took upon themselves to dis-
charge the duties for 100 miles around the metropolis.
This would include Brighton and many other large
towns. If six Commissioners were sufficient for the
metropolis, and 100 miles around, and the Com-
missioners, often ten years' experience, were content
to undertake the additional duty which would be thrown
upon them, he thought that ten would be capable of
doing the remaining business. But if the Hon. Gentle-
man did not think that ten would be sufficient, he had no
objection that they should be increased to twelve.
Mr. JERVIS said, that if persons living at a hundred
miles from London, were obliged to come up to the me-
tropolis to prove small debts, it was another objection
against the Bill, because it was tantamont to a denial of
justice. It would not be worth their while to come
such a great distance to prove small debts.
Mr. M. PHILIPS said that such was the increase of
business in Manchester, that if there were not two fixed
Commissioners he did net believe the business would be
'performed.

On clause 64, which defines the power of the Commis-
sioners, being read,

Sir T. WILDE objected to it as going much too far,
and giving to one Commiss!oner the power which hai
hitherto always been vested in three.
After a few words from the ATTORNEY and Soma
TOR• GENERALS, strangers were ordered to withdraw
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the clause .
Against it
Majority for the clause
The clause was then agreed to.
Clauses 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, and 72, were agree,
to without discussion.

59

-38

On clause 73 being proposed.
Mr. MARK PHILIPS opposed the allowance pro-
posed to be made to the Commissioners. He thought
1,800/. a-year far too high a salary. The present London
Commissioners had 1,5004 it was proposed to increase their
salary to 2,000/. He objected to that increase. The
Right Hon. Baronet had told them that the cost of liv-
ing was to be greatly diminished by the operation of the
Tariff. He hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would not
show the want of confidence in his own prophecy, which
he manifested by proposing such a salary for these Com-
missioners as 1,8001. a-year.
Mr. AGLIONBY thought that the travelling expenses
under the new Bill might be very heavy. If the locality
in which the Commissioner was fixed was very extensive,
the expense would be enormous. Great inconvenience
might arise from requiring persons to come to the Com-
missioners from a considerable distance.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that no inconve-
nience whatever arose from the Cemmissioners remain-
ing in the centre of the London district. With respect
to the salaries of the Commissioners it should be remem-
bered that persons selected for such offices often accepted
them at great pecuniary sacrifice. The object was to se-
cure the best assistance, and it could not be obtained
without an adequate remuneration.

Mr. AGLIOtBY thought that efficient lawyers might
be found at a lower salary than that proposed in the clause.
Mr. M. PHILLIPS would compromise his feelings in
the matter, by suggesting that 1,5001. a year should be
given to the County Commissioner, instead of the amount
proposed.
Mr. B. WOOD admitted that the Commissioners were
a great improvement upon the present law, but he thougt
the proposed salaries of 2,0001. to the old Commis-
sioners was too large, and he should, therefore, pro-
pose that the sum should be 1,800/.
Sir J. GRAHAM said he should resist the motion,
and he would state in a few words his reasons. By this
Act additional duty was imposed on the Com-
missioners, by the enlarged circle in which
their ' business was to be performed. That was
one ground why he opposed the motion. His
second reason was the reason already stated by the Attor-
ney-General, that when those gentlemen were appointed,
a hope was distinctly held out to them of promotion,
both with respect to their salaries and their situa-
tions. He knew that many Commissioners held their
situations upon that expectation. The alteration in the
salary was only 2001. a-year.
Mr. B. WOOD said they were not alt6gether to be
bound by arerbal understanding between officers
and the Govei nment. He (Mr. Wood) proposed that the
salary should be increased 3001. a-year, the present
salary being 1,5004
Mr. AGLION DY said that the Right Hon. Baronet
had made a mistake in stating the increase would only
be 30c1. a year, whereas it was 5001.
Sir J. WILDE thought that the salary proposed was
adequate.

• For the Amendment 7B
Against it
--•••••1
Majority against the Amendment —65
The clauaes were then agreed to.
ELE7T BITTING.I

__-
WOOLLEN MANUFACTURES.
TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN.
SIR —The statements made to Sir Robert Peel by Mr.
Brook, of Huddersfield, and Mr. Edward Akroyd, of
Halifax, appear to me calculated to convey such an
erroneous impression respecting the state of these dis-
tricts, that I beg to trouble you with a few lines with a
wish of placing the matter in its true light.
All persons acquainted with the woollen and worsted
trades of the West Riding of Yorkshire, must be aware
of the great changes that have been made in the manner
of conducting the manufacture. Formerly all the goods
sold in Huddersfield and Halifax were made in the
neighbouring villages, but the gradual adoption of the
factory system has had the effect of concentrating the
trade in the towns, and the country-places have accord-
ingly declined ; yet a great amount of business has con-
tinued to be done in the villages, the merchants and
large manufacturers having occasion to purchase or put
out large quantities of goods in addition to those made
at home. Now, it is evident that in a time of depression
the demand for country goods will be first affected, for
the proprietors of large establishments in the towns will
naturally be anxious to employ their works fully, before
they buy market goods, and therefore it will be found
almost universally the case, that the inhabitants of the
country districts are suffering incomparably more than
the town population ; and although there may not be
much want of employment in Halifax and Huddersfield,
I am certain that destitution, to an immense extent, pre-
vails in the neighbourhood, especially in localities where
there are no res►dent manufacture-s, and the inhabitants
have been accustomed to fetch work from a distance ;
many places of this description will be familiar to every
one acquainted with this part of the country.
I have no means of comparing the ratio of increase in
the Huddersfield Union, but the following calculations,
made from the quarterly accounts of the Halifax Union,
will prove my assertion to be correct ; and in estimating
the amount of distress, it must be remembered that relief
is now administered with a much more sparing hand
than was formerly the case.

On the motion of Sir J. GRAHAM, it was proposed
to amend the clause by substituting the number 12 for 10.
Mr. JERVIS said he would divide the House on the
question. It was evident that the Bill had been brought
into the House in such a state that the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet did not himself know bow many persons would be
necessary to work the Bill he proposed. Ile
did not know whether the Bill was to be

worked by a Central Board or by- Circuits.
H thought it was too bad to bring forward such a Bill
as the present at so late a period of the session, as it did
not give Members an opportunity of consulting their
constituents on the subject ; especially, when it impeached
the honesty of certain individuals.

Sir JA2TIES GRAHAM did not impeach the honesty
of any person.
Mr. JERVIS thought the responsibility of the altera-
tions proposed in the measure by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman should not rest upon him ; he would not be re-
sponsible for the insertion of the words ten, twelve,
twenty, or two hundred. He believed the Bill was no-
thing but a job, and it had been brought forward at the
present late period of the session in order that it should
not incur formidable opposition.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that as to the Bill
being a job, he was willing to leave the decision of that
question to the country at large. He believed
the country would not accuse the present Govern-
ment with being guilty of jobbing for countenancing
the present Bill. The Government had determined to

Support the Insolvency Bill, that Bill, as well as the
present imposed fresh duties, and be was afraid, there-
fore that 10 might not be sufficient, and, therefore, it was
that he proposed to insert not less than 12 Commissioners.
Mr. M. PHILIPS was sure the objects of the measure
could not be worked by the present number of Commis-
sioners ; but he thought they might try if ten were not
sufficient before twelve were appointed.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM proposed to insert the words
" not exceeding twelve," but he could assure the Hon.
Member that an attempt would be made with ten to see
how the measure would work.

J\Er. JERV IS observed that as to the Insolvency Bul
he did not believe it would pass this session. Dis-
claiming again being any party to the Bill, he would not
divide after the explanation of the Right Hon. Baronet.
The clause, as amended, was ordered to stand. part of
the Bill.

Clause 59 was agreed to without any amendment.
Clauses 60 and 61 were agreed to, with a few verbal
amendments.

Clauses to 63 were agreed to, with a few verbal
aule4dzento.

THE SUN, LONDON, MONDAY EVENING, AUGUST 8, 1842

GENERAL RAILWAY INFORMATION.

in the following Tables M signifies before Noon, and
E after it.

GREAT WESTERN.
OPEN TO TAUNTON.
STATIONS, with their Distances from Paddington.
PADDINGTON, Ealing SA, Hanwell 74, Southall 9, West
Drayton 13, SLOUGH 18, MAIDENHEAD 224, Twyford 304,
READING 35/, Pangbourne 414. Goring 444, Wallingford
Road 474, STEVENTON 564, Farringdon Road 634, Shriven-
ham 714, SWINDON 77 (Junction with the Cheltenham Rail -
vi ay), WOOTON BASSET 824, CHIPPENHAM 934, Corsham
984, Box 1914, BATH 1064, Twerton 1084, Saltfortt 1114,
Keynsham 1134, BRISTOL 1184, Nailsea 1264, Clevedon Road
1304, Banwell 1334, WESTON SUPER MERE 1364, Hig
bridge 1454, BRIDGEWATER 1514, TAUNTON 1624.
DOWN TRAINS

LONDON AND BIRMINGHAM.
• STATIONS, with their Distances from London.
LONDON, Harrow 11J, WATroan 174, King's Langley 21,
Boimoor 24k, Berkhampstead 28, TRING 314, Aylesbury 43k,
LEIGHTON 41, Bletchley and Fenny Stratford 4631, WOLVICR-
TON 523, Roade 60, BLISWORTH 621, Weedon 693, Crick
and Welton 74, RUGBY (Midland Counties Junction) 83,
Brandon 89, COVENTRY 94, Hampton (Derby Junction) 103.
BIRMINGHAM 1121 E.

DOWN TRAINS froDepartm
Swindon their
Daily, except Sundays. Paddington. Junction. Destination
Goods Train to Taunton .... 430 M 10 0 M 855 E
To Taunton
Ditto . 8 0 10 45 220
Short Train to Maidenhead 9 0
MAIL, to Taunton
Short Train to Maidenhead 11 0
To Taunton l2 Noon 2 58 6 35 E
Short Train to Slough 1 30
To Taunton
Short Train to Reading
Short Train to Slough • 4 30
To Bristol
Short Train to Maidenhead 530
To Swindon
MAIL, to Taunton
Goods Train to Taunton
SUNDAY DONNN TRAINS
Short Train to Slough
To Reading
Short Train to Slough 9 30
MAIL, to Taunton . ...... .. 10 15 1 0 E 430 E
To Taunton
Short Train to Maidenhead 5 0
To Swindon 7 0 10 0
;
MAIL, to Taunton
UP TRAINS
Time Leave ! Arrival
of Swindon at
Daily. except Sundays. Starting. Junction. Paddington.
Short Train from Reading i 7 30 51
Ditto from Slough.... 9 0
From Swindon
From Bristol
Short 'jr. from Maidenhead 11 15
MAIL, from Bristol ..... ... 840 10 28 110
Short Tr. from Maidenhead 145 E
Goods Train from Taunton.. 730 51 .5 40 E 12 0
From Taunton
Ditto
Short Train from Slough
From Taunton l2 30 E 420 7 5
Short Tr. from Maidenhead 8 0 9 0
From Taunton I4 15 745 10 25
MAIL, from Taunton ......., 11 15 2 3551 525 51
Goods Train from Taunton 630 E 240 740
SUNDAY Ul' TRAINS.
Short Train from Slough BO M
From Swindon
MAIL, from Taunton ....... 645 10 30 NI 110 E
Short Train from Slough ... 5 0 E ...... ..... 550
From Taunton ... .......... ..•, 12 30 420E1 7 20
Short Tr. from ;Maidenhead 730
Ditto from Reading....l 9 0
MAIL, from Taunton .......! 11 15 2 35 M I 5 2531
The Short Trains stop at all the intervening Stations.

8 30
t 10 30
2 35i1' 5 25i
Tvening Stations.

SOUTH WESTERN.
STATIONS, with their Distances from Nine Elms.
NINE Elms, Wandsworth 3, Wimbledon 6, KINGSTON 10,
Esher and Hampton Court 13, Walton 15k, Weybridge 17i,
Woxiiic 23, Farnborough 31i, Winchfield 38, BASING-
STOKE 46, Andover Road 56,. WINCHESTER 64, Bishopstoke
(Gosport Junction) 72, SOUTHAMPTON 77, Bottley 77, Fare-
ham 82, GOSPORT 87.

Departure
__ from

Nine Elms

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