The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-20 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 20, 1842.

ponement, if carried now, would be to raise a debate
upon Church leases. If the question of Church
leases was to be decided, let it be decided by a Bill
brou,•ht in for the purpose, and nut incidentally by a
clause in the Southwark Improvement Bill. The House
might make the law general if it pleased, but he trusted
they would not, fur the sake of encumbering a
particular measure, insert a clause deciding a great
public principle. He felt bound as much to oppose the
motion of his Noble Friend fur delaying the subject as
the motion of the Hun. Member for Berkshire for the
introduction of the clause.

On the motion that the clause enacting that persons
possessing Church property purchased under the Bill,
should receive compensation, stand part of the Bill, the
debate on the Bill was adjourned, on the motion of Lord
G. Somerset, and the clause ordered to be printed.
WESTON SUPER-MARE IMPROVEMENT BILL.
On the motion of Mr. MILES the Weston Super-
Mare Improvement Bill was react a third time.
PIEL PIER BILL.
The Piel Pier Bill was read a second time.
COMMITTEES.

Mr. LOCKHART moved that Mr. Forbes be added
to the Committee on the Inchbally Road Bill,
Mr. GREENE opposed the motion as contrary to the
general practice of the House.
Mr. LABOUCHEHE also condemned the motion as
a departure from established practice.
After a few words from Lord G. SOMERSET, the
motion was withdrawn.

• ELGIN BURGHS ELECTION.
The SPEAKER informed the house that he had re-
ceived a communication from the agents for the peti-
tioners complaining of the late return of a Member for
the Elgin district of Burghs, that it was not their inten-
tion to proceed with the petition.
NOTICES OF ➢LOTION—THE CHARTER.

.MI.I.DUNCOMBE gave notice that on Monday the
2d of ➢lay he would present a national petition, signed
by more than three millions of the industrious classes, in
favour of the People's Chtxter, and that on the follow-
ing day he would move that the petition be taken into
consideration, and the petitioners heard by Counsel or
by their agents.
Mr. WALLACE gave notice of his intention to
move that the Income- tax should not be proceeded with
until the tariff had been discussed.

Mr. HUTT gave notice that on this day fortnight he
would call the attention of the House to the borough
magistracy of the country.—(Loud cheers.)
EMIGRATION.

Mr. MAXWELL STEWART wished to put a ques-
tion to the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colo-
nies on the subject of emigration. He had been en-
trusted with the petitions of many thousand persons who
were unemployed at home, and who were anxious
to proceed to the colonies, if they could find em-
ployment there. They had heard that the demand for
labour in the colonies was very great in comparison with
the demand in this country. He hoped that the
Noble Lord would state, first, whether in the
colonies there was a great lack of labour, and
whether labour received remunerating wages ; and
next, whether there was any intention on the part of her
Majesty's Government to facilitate in any way the means
of transport from this country to the various colonies.
In putting these questions, he did so with reference, not
to those who were unwilling to go, but to thousands of
volunteers who are anxious to go if they could obtain
employment.—(Hear.) He wished also to know
whether, in the case of the other colonies, the
same plan would be adopted as had been with
reference to the Australian colonies, namely, that of ap-
plying the proceeds of the sale of land to the purpose of
defraying the expense of emigration.
Lord STANLEY, who spoke with his back to the
gallery, and in so low a tons of voice that we
could hardly catch his sentences, was understood
to say that the question of the Honourable Gentleman
was a most important one, and he trusted that
the House would, in consideration of its importance, al-
low him to give not only a direct answer, but a some-
what detailed one. The first question of the lion. Gen-
tleman was, whether there was not, at the present time,
a great demand in the colonies of Great Britain for ex-
tensive employment of a large number of emigrants. He
would put the West India colonies out of consideration
altogether, as the question to consider referred to Aus-
tralia and the Colonies in North America. For the last
few years the produce of the sale of land had been ap-
plied to the purposes of emigration, which had principally
been under the superintendence of the Government. His
Noble Friend who had preceded him in the Colonial-
office knew that there had been about 40,000 emigrants
sent out since December 1840, at a cost of 900,0001. (as
we understood). During the last year the actual amount
of emigration to the colony of New South Wales had been
22,750. By the last accounts received from the Governor
it appeared that 12,750 emigrants had arrived, and that
10,000 more were on the road. These 12,750 had in-
volved the colony in a debt of 11,0001., and what
must be the distress occasioned when they found there
were 10,000 more coming out;? The Governor stated
that at that time there was no demand for
labour in the colony, but that on the contrary
there existed the greatest difficulty in providing labour
for those immigrants who had recently arrived there.
He (Lord Stanley) felt it to be his duty to make this
statement thus publicly, in order to show that at
present there was no demand for labour in that
colony, and that emigration could not be pushed beyond
a certain point, unless capital emigrated likewise, and if
capital did not emigrate, those who emigrated without
property would be exposed to the greatest distress.—
(Hear, hear.) He did not mean to say that the present
sate of distress in New South Wales was likely to be
permanent. On the contrary, ho believed it would only
be temporary ; that it arose from the cessation of the
land sales for some time past, which had ceased in conse-
quence of the commercial embarrassments of the
colony. He believed that the colony would be
able to absorb a continued stream of emigration,
provided they did not attempt to pour in too many
emigrants at once. It was the opinion of the Governor of
the colony that the colony was capable of receiving an-
nually from eight to ten thousand emigrants; the House
would, however, perceive that to send out twenty-
two thousand annually, more than double the num-
ber the colony was capable of receiving, must in-
evitably occasion great distress among those emigrating.
With respect to the colony of Van Diemen's Land, he
had, at the present moment, in his hand, about 1,5001.,
the produce of the land sales in the colony, which sum
would be devoted to the purposes of emigration. The
colony was capable of receiving about 1,500 persons
in the course of a year, and that number had already
emigrated thither in the course of the present year. With
regard to Western Australia, he ought to beg pardon of
the House for going into such details, merely in answering
a question—( Cries of " Go on")—but it was a most
important question.—(Hear, hear.) With:regard, then, to
Western Australia, the colony was a very small one,
and was not capable of receiving emigrants to any great
extent. He believed, however, that the colony was
going on steadily, and that there was a demand for labour
there capable of absorbing annually about two hundred
emigrants, and that number were already on their
road there. In consequence of the disastrous state of
South Australia last year the land sales in that colony
had entirely ceased, and in consequence of the
cessation of the large Government expenditure for
public works, the extravagance of which had
greatly conduced to produce the existing state
of distress, :so many persons had been thrown
out of employment, that out of a population of 15,000
souls 1,200 were living as paupers, being maintained
out of the public funds, from want of employment.
With respect to the colony of New Zealand, he believed
of all the Australian colonies it afforded the most reason-
able prospects to the labouring classes. He would refrain
at the present moment from expressing any opinion as to
those settlements which were under the control of the
New Zealand Company, as they had more means of
knowing what the resources of those employed there
would be than he had. He had now stated the case of
the different Australian colonies. With respect to the
North American colonies, the case was rather different,
because the Government had no funds there for
the purposes of emigration. In those colonies
the proceeds of the land fund had been paid over
to the local legislature ; on the whole, he beloved the
North American colonies held out a favourable prospect
Of employment to emigrants. With respect to Canada,
lie tboughht that experience showed that it
was likely to become a seance of profit-
able employment to the emigrant. It was
true that, in many instances, the emigrants had suffered
severely, but he would earnestly recommend all who emi-
grated to plane themselves under the Government Agents
of the different colonies, who were the best calculated
to inform them where the greater quantity of employ-
ment was to be found. With respect to the subject of
emigration to Canada, although their condition last year
was favourable, many had suffered from the severity of the
weather, but those were chiefly weavers and persons who
were not in the habit of working at out-door employment.
Many of them, who had not found employment, had been
supported by private contributions. At the same time,
he must say that this class of men, were not likely to form
favourable settlers ; they were likely to be exposed to
hardships in :the early stages of their settling. He
hoped he had fully answered the question of the Hon.
Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. P. M. STEWART thanked the Noble Lord for
the full answer he had given to his question, and on
the part of the unemployed weavers of Paisley, he
thought it would tend to remove any prejudice they
might have on the question.
POOR-LAWS.

Mr. T. DUNCOMBE asked if he might be permitted
to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secre-
to the Home Department. The Right Hon. Baronet
had stated, that immediately after the Easter recess he
should introduce the Poor-law Amendment Bill. He
wished to ask on what day they might expect to see it
introduced?

Sir J. GRAHAM said he had not fixed immediately
after Easter for bringing on the subjeot. The same
question bad been put by another Hon. Gentleman op-
posite, and he should give the same answer to the pre-
sent one, that as soon as the businesS of the House had
made somo reasonable progress, he should_bring ill the
Bill.

for the purpose of saving the time of the House, to
answer the ques,ion then, as he was about to answer
another question relative to the State affairs its the
same country. He could not answer those questions
without adverting to the peculiar and anomalous posi-
tion in which he, as a Minister of the British Crown,
stood with respect to the condition of affairs in Syria. If the
situation of affairs in Syria, and the relations of Syria with this
country, or the relations of the Porte with this country were
of an ordinary kind, he should feel himself compelled to de-
cline altogether answering the question, because he thought no-
thing could be more impolitic than that a British Minister
should answer questions with regard to the administration of
dom. stir affairs in another country. One of the questions
was, whether or not the Porte intended to employ a certain de-
scription of soldiery in Syria, and the other was whether the
Porte had refused to remove a certain officer whom they had
entrusted with a special command in that country ? He would
repeat that if the relations of the Turkish empire and of Syria
were of an ordinary character he should decline answering
those questions, because, among other sea-one, he felt it
was utterly impossible for him to undertake the ad-
ministration of Syria. There was certainly enough
in undertaking the administration of affairs in England—
(Heir and laughter)—without his undertaking the adminis-
tration of affairs in a foreign country. With regard to the ap-
pointment, to which the Gallant Commodore alluded, he did not
hesitate to say that a more objectionable appo ntment could not
be made. They had remonstrated with the Porte upon tha
subject, and they had received an assurance that that appoint-
ment should not be affirmed. With regard to the question of
rho Hen. Gentleman, be regretted to find that the Porte had
thought it expedient to send out those troops. The British
Government had sent out instructions to Sir S. Can-
ning, their Ambassador at the Porte, to represent
to the Porte, that nothing but evil and confusion could ensue
from employing their troops in the interior of Syria. The
numbers, he believed, had been considerably overrated, and an
assurance had 1 een given that they should not be employed in
the interior of the country. The justification of their employ-
ment was the great loss of life in the ease of the Turkish troops
employed in Syria, and they were solemnly assured that they
would be retained upon the coast. The Engish Ambassador
had expressed to the Sultan his astonishment and concern at
the Arnaut: troops being sent to Syria, and warned the Porte
of the impression which such a step was likely to produce on
the European Governments. He trusted that he had now
shown that the scenes which had occurred in Syria had been
the object of complaint, whether successfully or not, and that
he had convinced the Hon. Gentleman and the House that the
Government was not indifferent'te a question which so deeply
affected the tranquillity of Syria.
BOROUGH MAGISTRATES.
Mr. HUTT wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet oppo-
site (Sir J. Graham) whether he had received any statement
as to the manner in which justice had been administered in
the boroughs since the recent appointment of Magistrates.
Sir J. GRAHAM said the Hon. Gentleman was so kind as
to give him a general notice that he intended to ask him certain
questions to-day respecting the recent appointment of borough
Magistrates, but he had not told him what would be the pre-
cise questions, so as to enable him to give a specific. answer.
The Hon. Gentleman had, however, relieved him from any
anxiety which he might have felt by giving notice of a motion
upon the subject. In that state of things, he must abstain from
entering into any statement at present.
Mr. AGLIONBY begged to ask whether the Right Hon.
Baronet had any objections to lay on the table of the House
any documents which might be important,
Sir J. GRAHAeI said that Hon. Gentlemen on the other
side were very fond of making complaints, doubtless agreeable
to them, but certainly not very complimentary to him (Sir J,
Graham).
Mr. HUTT said, the Right BM Baronet had misunder-
stood his question. He did not ask whether there had been
any complaints made of the municipalities ; what he had asked
was, whether complaints had been made by the municipality,
or other parties, as to the manner in which justice had been
administered.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, he had already stated, that if
the Hon. Gentleman had any specific motion to make, the
Hon. Gentleman could do so, and he could also move for any
returns he thought proper. The grounds on which he (Sir J.
Graham) had advised her Majesty to make the appointments,
would be explained by him when that. motion was before the
House.
IRISH JUDGES, AND THE INCOME-TAX.
Mr. O'CONNELL wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet,
the Member for Tamworth, whether the salaries of the Irish
Judges, paid out of the Consolidated Fund, would be liable
to the Income-tax.
Sir R. PEEL said, that the arrangements he proposed to
make with respect to the salaries of public officers being liable
to the Income-tax was:this, that in respect of all appointments in
Ireland, the duties of which were permanent and stationary,
in these cases they would not be subjected to the operation of
the Income-tax. In the case, for instance, of the Commis•
sioner of Customs, he would nut be subjected to the operation
of the tax. IPSWICH COMMITTEE.
Mr. R. WASON here rose, but was interrupted by
The SPEAKER, who said that the motion of the Hon.
Member was irregular and unparliarnentary, and he was quite
sure the House would insist upon his (the Speaker's) rising to
stop the Hon. Member from going on with it.—(Loud cheers
from the Ministerial benches.) The Hon. Member's notice
contained a condemnation of a Committee then sitting. If
the Hon. Member persisted in his motion it would arraign the
conduct of the Members of the Committee then sitting. That
House, according to its rules, would never allow the conduct
of any Committee to be alluded to until that Committee had
made its Report. The proceedings of this Committee were
still pending ; it therefore would be in the highest degree
irregular for any Ilonourable Member of that House
to allude to the conduct of that Committee until its
Report had been made. He (the Speaker) put it
to the Hon. Member whether, considering the peculiar
nature of a Select Committee—considering that it was a tri-
bunal altogether independent of that House—constituted by
Act of Parliament, every Member of which was sworn to try
the merits of the ease—he put it to the Hon. Member whether
it would be right to allude to the conduct of the persons com-
posing that Committee.
Mr. RIGBY WASON said it was his duty to bow to the
opinion and decision of the Chair, at the same time he had in-
tended to have atcided adverting to what had been said by the
Members of the Committee. He would merely state to the
House it had not been his intention to have concluded with
any motion. —(Laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh.")
Mr. PAKINGTON said that he was sure, from the pecu-
liar position in which he was placed, the House would allow him
to express his deep regret that the forms of Parliament would
not allow the Hon. Gentleman opposite to proceed with the
notice he had given, as he was prevented from repelling the im-
putation which had been cast upon the Committee. :Whatever
calumnies he (Mr. R. Wason) might have thought it his duty
to cast upon the Committee over which it was his (Mr. P.'s)
painful duty to preside, he would say for the Members of that
Committee, and for himself, that they courted investigation to
its fullest extent.—(Cheers.) He (Mr. P.) most earnestly
hoped, whatever might be the charges which the Hon. Gentle-
man might think proper to bring ferward—be (Mr. P.) did
most earnestly hope that at some future period the Hon. Gen-
tleman would, consistently with the forms of the House, bring
his accusations against the Committee under the consideration
of the House. But there was one fact which he (Mr. P.)
thought ought to be made known to the Hon. Gentleman him-
self, and which he (Mr. P.) thought it was right to the Com-
mittee and the House, should be made public. The fact was
Committee were unanimous
the
evidence given by the party
witht his, thatreg a althoughregard
to
the
character
ra e
r believedof
th
now in Newgate, notwithstanding that fact, the Committee
were not unanimous as to the manner in which the conduct of
that party chould be followed up.
Mr. Rigby Wason, with Mr. Rennie, rose amid loud cries
It it to be his duty as a party
Way to
of
A,,h0.. rit
id eEr ,N'
Nb
Et he,
hformer
hgea vf
felt
interested in the subject, to state to the House that he did not
agree with the course taken by his Hon. Colleague.
Sir R. INGLIS, who spoke amid much confusion, said, he
hoped that what had been said by the Speaker would be ex-
punged, together With the notice of the Hen. Member, from
the journals of the House- It appeared to him as a matter
worthy of consideration, whether the same course which had
been adopted in 1835, relative to a notice of motion which was
considered calumnious and indecorous, and was ordered to be
expunged from the journals of the House, should not be adopted
now.

---
The SPEAKER made some reply, but there was so much
noise in the House that vre did not hear it.

Mr. COCHRANE postponed his motion for certain papers
relative to the diplomatic intercourse between this kingdom
and Greece to a future day.
FRAUDS IN AIAriUFACTURES.

Mr. FERRAND said, in rising to address the House he felt
most deeply the responsibility which attached to him, for he had
not only the prayers of every honest manufacturer for his suc-
cess but the eyes of the working classes, both of Great Britain
and Ireland, were watching him that evening. But when he
recollected that he was placed that evening in the position in
which he then stood, not by his own seeking—when he remem-
bered that he had been driven by Hon. Gentlemen opposite to
that course—when he considered that it was their duty to take
the steps he was taking, he considered he needed no apology.
When he first of all brought forward the charges he was about
to attempt to prove to be correct, he was induced to do so, be-
cause, throughout the country, men were hired to use the most
exciting and violent language ; because placards of the most in-
flammatory kind were circulated through every town and
village, calling on the working classes to look on the
landed proprietors as their greatest enemies, as those
who kept their food from them, as those who dried
up the mother's breast, and caused the death of the
infant in the mother's arms, as those who outraged the laws of
God and man, and all for selfish motives. He had inquired
into: the truth of these charges among the working classes
themselves, and they had repudiated any share in making those
charges, and that they had been heaped on their heads by the
manufacturers themselves. He was aware that the first of the
resolutions he had moved was a Standing Order of that House,
but he had placed it on the paper to let the people know that
if the manufacturers brought forward false evidence, that
House had the power of protecting them. The second reso-
lution he considered absolutely necessary for the protection of
the working classes who might have to attend before the Select
Committee, if the House should grant it. the working classes
state that they dare not attend and give evidence before any
Committee unless they are protected, as they would have
nothing but ruin before them. Those who gave evidence
before the Committee obtained by Mr. Sadler were ruined by
being denied employment, and this class now hoped that this
House, having given twenty millions for the purpose
of putting down slavery among the blacks, and granted 17,0001.
to enable the Hon. and learned Member for Bolton to go on
the Continent to make inquiries as to the extension of Com-
merce and Manufactures, would not refuse to grant them pro-
tection. He thought the Hon. Gent. would agree with him
that nothing could be more requisite for extending the trade
and commerce of the country than that our manufacturers and
merchants should be of unsullied character—that in all their
differenttrading transactions with the different quarters of the
globe they should act with justice, and that they should not
practice deceit either as regarded their fellow-countrymen or
foreigners He found that our ancestors were of that opinion.
They had been jealous of the honour of the nation, and had
passed stringent laws to prevent any attempt at fraud.
He found in the preamble of the Act 13 Richard 11. cap. 2,
that the Legislature at that time had interfered to prevent
fraud in the manufacture and packing of clogs.—(The Hon.
Member here read the preamble of the Act alluded to.) He
found that, in the sth and 6th of Edward Y 1., an Act of Par-
liamen was passed to provide for the due making of woollen
cloth.—(The Hon. Member here read a portion of the Act in
question, from which it appeared that the clothiers of that day
were not altogether ignorant of the practice of mixing a com-
position somewhat analagous to "Devils Dust " with the wool,
since, as the Act expresses it, from "lack of knowledge," and
others "from extreme covetousness, and having more respect
for their own private advantage than for the advantage of the
community.") Again, in the 43d year of the reign of Elizabeth,
he found Parliament interfering for the purpose of regulating
the manufacture of woollen cloth.—( The Hon. Member here
read a passage of the Act of Elizabeth, from which it appeared
that the clothiers still continued to disregard the good and
godly enactments" which had been made for the regulation of
the woollen manufacture, and that they stretched the fabric of
the cloth, filling up the insterstices with " chalk-flour and other
things," which caused the cloth when wetted to shrink. The
Hon. Member then referred to an Act passed in the 10th year
of the reign of Queen Anne, for the better payment of the
poor makers of cloths, and observed that he had read
to the House certain Acts of Parliament, passed by
their ancestors for the protection of manufacturers and work-
men, and also for the protection of the public, but about fifty
ars ago a new light broke in upon the peoples' representa-

fives, and the consequence was that those acts were suspended.
What was thel result of that? Why, that frauds of the most
gross description were practised by manufacturers in all trades,
to the great injury of the public, both at home and abroad.
He did not mean to deny that there were many manufacturers
who were anxious to be honest and upright men, and who
wished to carry into the market articles that would
de justice, not only to themselves, but the public ;
but when the new principle burst upon the
country. a new arena was opened to the manufacturers to cheat
and defraud their neighbours both here and abroad. They had
been told by Hon. Members that the Corn-laws were the drag-
chain of the agricultural and manufacturing interests, and theyl
had been told also that they were the only cause of the present
distress. They were told that if the °landed interest would
only give the manufacturers a free trade in corn there would be
no limits to the extension of British commerce. But he found
that the merchants and manufacturers of this country had been
in possession of the South America market from the year 1807
to the year 1822, or 1823. At that time Mr. Canning declared
that we had called a new world into existence ; and it was
thought that a boundless field was thus opened for the commerce
of this country. But what was the consequence of the frauds
committed by the manufacturers themselves ? They were
themselves the first cause to a great extent of losing the market
of South America. Ile had heard it stated by some Hon. Gen-
tlemen opposite that the use of flour was indispensibly necessary
in making cotton and calico ; but he (Mr. Ferrand) begged
leave mot distinctly to say, that such a practice was formerly
unknown. Flour had never been made use of until the manu-
facturers had introduced it for the purpose of cheating and
fraud, fie did not utter those expressions merely on his own
authority. In asking for a Committee that night, he wished to
say, that he would use the evidence and autbority of persons
entitled to the highest credit. He would call to his aid manu-
facturers of the highest respectability and standing in the
country, as well as working people, who would come before the
Committee if proper protection were given them. He felt so
strong in the truth of his pcaition, that lie fearlessly asserted that
if any rule of the House prevented the granting of the
second part of his resolution, he would ask for the Committee
before whom he would prove every word he had said, upon the
authority of manufacturers, merchants, magistrates, trades-
men, and operatives. There was a work of very great merit,
entitled " Baines' History of the Cotton Manufacture," to
which he would for a moment refer. The work was a standard
book upon the subject; and no person had ever attempted to
dispute its assertions. In April, 1835, the work was most ably
rev.ewed in Tait's Edinburgh Magazine. The reviewer stated
that he should extract one passage relative to practices which
he had heard, were banishing foreigners from our markets, and
sending them to countries where these disgraceful practices
were unknown. Mr. Baines said, that, to improve the ap-
pearance of the cloth, it was usually passed through starch
made of flour, mixed with porcelain clay and calcined sulphate
of lime, by which the cloth was made thicker, and appeared
to have greater substance and strength than previously. He
also stated that it was a " contrivance originally davised
for the purpose of fraud ; and which, though now
too generally understood to he regarded as fraudulent, it would
be creditabie to the trade to discontinue." Here, then, it was
distinctly stated that the practice of using flour paste originated
in fraud. He would also read to the House the letter of a
gentleman who had paid great attention to the subject. The
Hon. Member then read an extract describing the process of
applying flour paste in the manufacture of calico. Ho would
take the House with him into South America, that they might
see what reception our manufactures had met with in that
country. He would quote from Robinson's work on Paraguay,
when under the rule of Dr. Francia. It was there stated that
not a single piece of linen for the soldier's shirts and trowsers
was purchased without previous inspection by his Excellency;
that having found that the cloth had wide interstices between
the threads, he was in the habit of viewing it with a microscope
to ascertain its real texture ; and that when he found the
threads yawning he allowed the owner half price, telling him
at the same time that he ought to be punished as a knave.
The Jews, said his Excellency, were cheats, but the English
were downright swindlers. Vi hat a disgrace was this, said the
lion. Member, to this country that their merchants should be
thus considered. When he read it his blood boiled to think
that Englishmen should have so traduced their country seven
thousand miles from home. Here was the true history of the
downfol of English commerce. " For," said Dr. Francia
from the same authority, " go about your business, and the
next time you bring your goods, bring them from honest Ger-
many." What was the reason they had lost their trade? Be-
cause their manufacturers had been so hungry after
filthy lucre. In Chambers' Edinburgh Journal, of Feb. 19,
in and article, entitled " A few weeks on the Continent," it
was stated that the Swiss supplied themselves with home-
made clothing, because they had no confidence in the durabi-
lity of colour of the English printed cottons. He had also
received from a respectable shopkeeper in Liverpool a speci-
men of the coarsest sort of white shirting, and he could hardly
have believed, on less respectable testimony, that the poor
were so plundered by the manufacturers. A sample of that
shirting he had sent to the Right Hon. Baronet and the No-
ble Lord. The lace trade, according to Babbage's " Economy
of Manufactures," was reduced to a state of ruin by the frauds
practiced in it ; and in the stocking trade, it appeared from
evidence, that stockings were made of an uniform width all the
way down from the knee to the ancle, and when they were
wet the purchaser could not distinguish the fraud, but when
they were dry, he found they hung like a bag round his ancles.
(Laughter.) He had heard a great deal of the distress of the
country, and of the Corn-laws being the cause of that distress.
('The Hon. Member here read an extract from the Nottingham
Joanna', complaining of the practice of making what are called
" thoppings off," in that neighbourhood, by means of which a
stocking frame was enable to manufacture twice as many stock-
ings as it would under a better system, and that consequently
there was a great scarcity of employment and considerable
distress among the stockingers, who had seldom 10s. worth of
furniture in their houses, and whose destitution was increased
by the fraudulent manner in which they were paid under the
truck system.) He would call the particular attention of the
Right Hon. Baronet to the last paragraph of that article in
the Nottingham Journal, in which the writer called upon the
Government to come forward and protect the stockingers who
were a degraded half-starved body of useful men, who had no
means of protecting themselves. They asked through him for
a Committee of that House, and he trusted there was no Hon.
Member who had heard him who would not assist him in ob-
taining that Committee. Gentlemen opposite had said that
they would throw no impediment in his way, and he
trusted that they would act np to what they
bad said, that the Government would not object to
the apppointment of this Committee. He would now proceed
to give them an account of the frauds committed in the ma-
nufacture of watches, which, when they' were carried abroad,
would not go for half an hour.—( A laugh.) That had been
given in evidence before the House of Commons. It was no
case for laughing—( Renewed laughter)—it was rather a
reason why the Legislature of the present day should inter-
fere to 'prevent fraud, and show themselves (said the Ho-
nourable Gentleman) " as jealous of the British nation as
what our ancestors were 500 years age." He had received
a letter on the subject of those frauds, in which the writer had
stated that he had been before aware that many of the prints
exported faded en the first washing. He had not been aware
that a great proportion of the clothes themselves were only fit
for wadding until he had read his ( Mr. Farrand's) speech, and
suggested that recourse be had to the old plan of stamping ma-
nufactured articles previous to exportation. The writer then
went on to state, that needles had been exported without eyes ;
that until the Tower stamp had been restored, the muskets ex-
ported had only been dangerous to those who fired them ; and
that the axes were such that the American woodsmen could no
longer venture to use them. He concluded by reproaching the
Legislature with running the risk of ruining the honest and
industrious, in preference to adopting measures for restraining
a parcel of scamps. He had also brought before the notice of
the House the frauds committed in the use of shoddy cloths.
Ncw he would read a letter he had received from a respectable
manufacturer of fifty years' standing, who resided in Yorkshire,
who observed, that he (Mr. Farrend) had not overstated what
had taken place in his part of the country. The use of
shoddy cloths had become so general, that his corrrespondent
stated his opinion to be, that unless the Government passed
some restrictions to the use of such commodities, the
woollen trade of the country would soon be put a stop to. He
had seen woollen cloths stiffened with flour, the effect of which
was that it was constantly eaten by moths, and soon became
good for nothing. He was sure that restrictions to the use of
such :materials might be made at a very small expense. An-
other letter that he had received stated that the writer knew a
manufacturer, who was in the habit of buying up old woollen
stockings, chopping them up, and mixing them with the wool.
Now, if he wanted one proof better than another of this, he
would refer to a document issued by Government itself. The
manufacturers had been making use of such materials that the
Government had been obliged to take up the question to pro-
tect themselves. They had issued a circular, in which they
prohibited the use of such goods ; and in that circular it was
stated that all cloth was to be made of new wool, and that if it
was not the Board would have nothing to do with it, or the
manufacture of it. The Board had nothing to do with them ;
they had deserted such infamous rascals, and well they might.
—(Laughter.) He (Mr. F.) thought the House would agree
with him that when he asserted the manufacturers of the coun-
try had been losing their character, he had substantiated his
assertion. if there were any doubt upon the subject, either on
the part of the Government, or of any Member of the House,
he thought he had produced sufficient evidence to convince
them that a Select Con.mittee should be granted. Had he not
convinced lion. Members that it was time for the Government
to step forward and put a stop, by legislative enactments, to
their practices ? He was convinced, that if a poor man had
committed similar frauds he would be severely punished ; and
thereasught not te be one law for the rich and another for the poor.
In the name of the poor man, and in the name of the honest ma-
nufacturers of this country, lie called on the House to comeSfor-
ward and interfere. He would next, w ith permission of the House,
allude to the truck system. That was a sub;ect of the greatest
importance to the manufactures of the country. The working
men were now literally perishing in thousands ; and he believed
their miseries had been mainly brought about by the cruel op-
pression of their masters. He had reason to know that some
manufacturers not only paid their workmen in goods, but that
the goods they gave were of a very inferior description. Those
manufacturers sometimes delayed the payment of their labour-
s not only for weeks, as he had said, on a former occasion,
but for months, and sometimes for twelve months. He had
lately received a letter from a highly respectable gentleman,
' who, in consequence of the part he had taken en the subject in
that I louse, had stated to him that he knew of a case in which
an application was made by a labourer of the name of Erwin
to the Board of Guardians of Cockermouth ; and it was stated
as a reason why relief should be afforded to the unfortunate in-
dividual, that in the firm for which he worked it took the ope-
ratives six weeks, in consequence of the badness of the
materials which were used, to earn as much as they
should have otherwise earned in three weeks.—( Hear.)
The inquiries of the Guardians confirmed the man's statement.
Such was the thraldom, however, in which these unfortunate
creatures were held, that the wife most earnestly intreated
that no steps might be taken under the Act of Parliament,
lest her husband and a crippled son should be thrown out of
employment, as they could could do nothing but weave. The
same gentleman stated with respect to the truck. system, that
though the house in question had not
adopted it, yet it was
adopted by a firm, one member of which had been in town as
an Anti-Cornslaw Delegate. New he had told the House
that these poor people had their wages paid partly in goods.
He held in his hand a blank form, which was filled up by the
book-keeper, and which every poor man had given
to him when he left the mill on Saturday night.
These were the items deducted from his wages :--
rent, fuel, cash stopped, ditto overpaid—he should say that that
was very seldom—tools, fines. Many of these manufacturers
had posted up rules, which he had in his possession ; and he
fearlessly asserted that if these poor uneducated men, women,
boys, and girls, were to study from Monday morning till
Saturday night to avoid breaking the rules, it would be im-
possible that they should succeed, so stringent were they, and
so oppressive to the work-people.—(Hear,hear. ) By these
fines a large amount was deducted from their wages, to which
must be added in many cases twenty, thirty, or forty per cent.
for the profit upon the manufacturer's goods. Now the poor
work-people were robbed also by the system of trucking cot-
tages. He had this statement from a poor working
man, who had begged him not to give his name. It
appeared that the manufacturers kept a black book,
which was circulated through the country, and when
a man had once given offence, it was impossible
for him to obtain work unless he applied for it tinder a feigned
name, and men in such circumstances were often compelled to
break stones on the road. This poor man stated that the
masters had houses which they compelled their workpeople to
rent, and those who did not live in them themselves were
obliged to let them to others; in several instances rooms which
were hired at 2s. or 3s. a week were let by them for 4d. He
also stated that many of the manufacturers who kept cows com-

pelled their workpeople to take two or three quarts of milk per
day, and that when the cows were killed they obliged them to
take part of the meat. He then read a letter from a clergyman
of the Church of England, stating that the truck system pre-
vailed in the borough which Mr. Villiers represented, and that
a member of his Committee, and one of his active partizans,
was one of its chief supporters. The men were paid once a
month by goods from the " Tommy shop," where the articles
of sugar, butter, bacon, and tea, were charged at an enormous
profit, it being 50 per cent. on the article of tea alone,
while the articles were of a very inferior description. The
truck system also prevailed iii Scotland ; in the Coke-bridge
Iron Works, near Glasgow, the wages of the men were paid
with goods, at a profit of 50 per cent. above the retail dealer.
At Paisley the same nefarious system prevailed, and he had a
letter from a working man at Glasgow, stating that the iron
masters' round that district made their own laws, which the
men were forced to obey, and they were of the most hideous
cast; if they resisted them they,were carried before the Magis-
trate of the district, who never failed to decide against the
miner. One of the rules was, that if any miner allowed
his father, brother, or son, to sleep in his cottage,
when not employed in the same works, he was charged
double rent for his cottage. Seine industrious men
had not received a shilling wages, in money, for the
last four yea-s. The truck system was pursued in Ireland as
well as Scotland ; he should not trouble the House as to its
existence in Wales. The truck system was carried into
effect throughout the whole of the manufacturing districts of
England. In some places the Anti Corn-law manufacturers
had made their work-people pay for Anti Corn-law pamphlets.
—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
Mr. THORNELY (we believe) expressed his disbelief of
this statement.

Mr. FERRAND—He had stated nothing that he would not
prove before the Select Committee. Nay, if a poor creature
was obliged to leave the manufactory to satisfy the
calls of nature he was fined. Some manufacturers even
made their work-people pay them for their own coffins,
for ellen they applied for a few shillings to pay for the
coffin of their relative, they were charged at the rate of is. a
week per pound sterling for the money. One manufacturer at
Sheffield had been fined 101., and others in smaller sums, under
a prosecutiun for paying a man's wages in cloth ; but though
he had moved for a return of the number of those convic-
tions, it was not to show that these laws were in force, but to
prove to what extent they were evaded. He attributed a great
part of the distress of the country to the amount of wages in
money withdrawn front circulation, the small shopkeepers
never touching any of it. He denied that be had charged the
manufacturers of Yorkshire with participating in the truck
spstem ; he had expressly :guarded against it. Two names
to the declaration that had been published, in denial of
his statement, were forged ; and of the names attached to it,
one was making 70 per cent. by his cottages, from his workmen.
At Idle, in the neighbourhood in which he (Mr. Ferranti) re-
sided, the truck system was in active operation. He would
prove this by the Report of a Government Commissioner.—
( The Hon. Gentleman here read an extract from the Report
alluded to, front which it appeared that the truck system was in
operation at Wendle, and that the Commissioner had received
information on the subject from a weaver, who, however, had
requested the Commissioner not to ask any questions, as if it
were known that a weaver had given testimony on the subject
he would suffer by being turned out of his employment.) 'That
showed, as the Commissioner said, how impossible it was to
enforce obedience to the law where both the employer and
the employed united to defeat it—and so over-stocked
was the labour market at the present moment, that the labour-
ers were compelled to submit to whatever the employer might
propose. He would now call the attention of the House to the
existence of the truck system in Birmingham, where he be-
lieved its existence had been denied. He would, however,
prove its existence by the testimony of a Gallant Officer there,
who in a Report dated Small Arms Depot, Brighton, April
10, 1842, had stated that it was a general complaint among
persons employed in the gun-lock trade, that the truck and
tommy system was carried to a considerable extent in that
trade. That gentleman, however stated that he had felt it to
be his duty to issue directions to all persons engaged on Go-
vernment contracts—many of whom he felt bound to say,
discontinued the truck system—to pay all their lock-filers
their full wages in money. It was not the first time the British
Legislature had been asiced to interfere for the protection of
the working classes. On Feb. 17, 1795, Mr. Whitehead had
made a motion calling on the House to afford protection to the
labouring population, which had been seconded by the late Sir
R. Peel, and supported by Fox anti Sheridan. On July 5,
1834, Mr. Littleton had brought in the labourers' wages Bill,
on which occasion Mr. Huskisson gave it as his opinion
that a great portion of the distress in the manufacturing dis-
tricts was not so much owing to want of employment as to the
existence of the truck system. On the 3d of May in that
year, Lord Stanley had presented a petition from Heaton
Norris against the truck system, and on that occasion his
Lordship said that the truck system was as injurious to the
manufacturer who did not adopt it as it was to the labourer
who was its victim. On the sth July, 1830, the present
Prime Minister of England said that the great evil of the
present day was a desire to diminish the comforts of the poorer
classes, and that nothing tended so much to add to that evil,
as the fact of a manufacturer, makisig 8,0001. a year,
endea-
vouring to make 3,0001. a year more out of the wages of his
work-people by dealing in bacon and cheese ; and on that oc-
casion the present Prime Mioister told Mr. Hume, who was
then the chief opponent, that if it were defeated he (Mr. H. )
would rest the responsibility. He (Mr. Ferrand) had now, to
the best of his ability, done his duty.—( Cheers. ) If Hon.
Gentlemen opposite opposed his motion, on them would rest the
responsibility ; and if Hon. Gentlemen refused to accede to it,
then he would say to the Right lion. Baronet, as the Right
Hon. Baronet had before said to Mr. Hume, that on his
shoulders, and on the shoulders of the Government, would rest
the responsibility of opposing his motion. He would tell them,
also, that a most extensive feeling was abroad on this subject ;
that not far distant from that place there were many honest
manufacturers, who had come from the North, to give evidence
on the Committee he now asked for, and who came to tell them
that they must either be honest themselves, or retire from
their trade with the character of dishonest and disreputable
men. There was a deputation, also, sent there from the work-
ing men to appear before the Committee, to ask for jus-
tice. They had no other means of bringing their mise-
ries and wants before the House ; they had not the power
of voting for Members, but they had the rower of appealing to
that House for justice and protection, and the object of his
motion was to give it them. The present motion might be
lost ; if it was it would cause heart-rending affliction among
the working classes; but he trusted the Government would
consider it to be their duty at once to acquiesce in his motion.
He asked for the Committee for the sake of common justice—
he asked for it on behalf of the cause of humanity—and last of
all, he asked for it in the name of Him who had said " The
labourer is worthy of his hire." The Hon. Gentleman con-
cluded, amid considerable cheering, b, proposing the following
resolutions :—" That this House considers as highly criminal
the conduct of any person or persons who may attempt to in-
duce others to give false evidence before a Committee of this
house, and will indict condign punishment on all such persons,
and will also direct them to be prosecuted. That this House
will protect and hear harmless every working man who gives
true evidence before any Committee which may be appointed
to inquire into the frauds committed by manufacturers and
others, to the injury of the trade of this country,. and of the la-
bouring classes. For a Select Committee to inquire into the
existenee of frauds in various manufactures of the United King.
dom of Great. Britain and Ireland ; also, to inquire into the
existence of frauds and oppressions, either directly or indirectly
committed by certain manufacturers of the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Ireland, upon the persons employed by
them; and also by the workers of mines, collieries, and rail-
ways, upon the labourers in their employment."
An lints. MEatBIR having seconded the resolution,
The question was put from the Chair.

After a pause of a 'few moments,
Mr. FIELDEN rose to address the House, but the Hon.
Member was totally inaudible in consequence of the indistinct
tone in which he spoke. We understood him to say that he
believed there was much truth in the statements of the Hon.
Member for Knaresborough; but he believed that many of the
practices complained of had their origin in bad legislation.
Those practices were, at all events, highly discreditable; and
it appeared to him to be the duty of the Government to grant
the proposed inquiry.
Mr. WALLACE said he was exceedingly desirous the in-
quiry should be granted. He believed there was a great deal
of truth in what had been stated by the Hon. Member for
Knaresborough ; and he trusted the inquiry would be ranted
in whatever form might be thought most convenient. It was,
in his opinion, exceedingly unwise to allow a continuance of
the truck system under any shape. He thought, therefore,
that the Gentlemen would do well if they were satisfied of the
existence of the system, to take care to afford some cheap and
easy means by which the aggrieved parties might be
enabled to obtain justice against the offenders. The
great evil of the present law against the truck system,
as indeed of all our laws, was that justice, was inaccessible to
the poor man. He repeated that he was afraid there was a
good deal of truth in the allegations of the Hon. Member ; and
as he believed that the truck-system in any form was exceed-
ingly injurious, he hoped the proposed inquiry would take place,
and that the present law which was at least well-intended might
be fully enforced.
Mr. WA KLEY said that he felt some surprise that no
Member of the Government had risen to address the House
after the speech of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. But
the Right Hon. Baronet was perhaps anxious to ascertain in
the first instance the feeling of the House. He thought a
motion of this kind could scarcely be granted if there were a
strong feeling in the House against it ; at the same time he
could scarcely believe it possible that the Government would
resist the motion if there were a strong feeling in
its favour. Allegations of that nature were of the
most serious character, and affected the interest, com-
fort, and happiness of millions of their fellow-countrymen,
According to the statements made by the Hon. Member the
people of this country were the slaves of their employers, and
were placed in a state of entire destitution and dependence.
In order to do full justice, however, to an inquiry of that na-
ture it must not be levelled against one particular class of sin-
ployers. It much be extended to the occupiers of land.—
( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) Were Hon.
Members aware that in Scotland, and to a very considerable
extent in the North of England, the truck system prevailed in
farms as well as in manufactures?—(oh, oh.) Hon. Mem-
bers might deny it if they pleased ; but he knew that he was
stating the plain, naked truth when he said that the labourers
upon farms in Scotland and the north England were paid in
kind, and not in money wages.—( Hear, hear.) In order,
therefore, that the investigation might be introduced to both
classes, he would propose to introduce in line 4, after the word
manufacturers, "and occupiers of land," and he hoped that the
lion. Gentleman would agree to the amendment. The in-
quiry would then be general, and they would ascertain who
were and were not the oppressors of the poor of this country.
—( Hear, hear.) He thanked the Hon. Gentleman for bring-
ing forward this subject. If in some cases be had expressed
himself with a fervour which was not quite prudent, he be-
lieved it arose from a sincere desire to relieve the people from
oppression.—( Hear, hear.) He could himself bear witness to
many oppressions under which they were labouring, and he
must cordially supported the motion for their investigation.
Colonel S1B1110RI) in supporting the motion, stated
that though he had property in the north of England, he had
never met with a single instance in which the truck system
bad been adopted on farms. He would be most happy that the
investigation would be extended to every tenant of his own.
Mr. BROTHERTON concurred in the motion, but ob-
jected to the amendment, because the same act which had ren-
dered it illegal in the manufacturers to pay wages in kind, had
rendered it. legal in the farmer. He believed that unavoidable
oppression existed, and he was anxious to see it put down as
soon as possible.
Sir J. GRAHAM said, if the motion had contained any-
thing condemnatory of the manufacturing interest it would
not have met with his concurrence. He believed that the
cases in which fraud was practised were the exceptions, that
the general feeling of the manufacturers of this country was
that of honest Englishmen, and that the fact that in the long
run the fraudulent manufacturer does not prosper was borne
constantly in mind by the majority. He could not therefore con-
cur in any sweeping charges against the manufacturing interest,
and on this account he regretted to see in the resoluteni
so frequent a repetition of the word " fraud.', ---(Hear,hear. )
Legislative enactments had been proposed from the earliest pe-
riod, with a view of remedying the evil, but they had generally
proved abortive. With respect to that part of the resolution
which related to the giving of evidence, he would remind the
House that there was a Sessional Order cn that subject, which
provided for all that was required; and that being the case,
he thought the first resolution of the Hon. Member was en-
tirely unnecessary.—(Hear, bear.) The question then nar-
rowed itself into the payment of wages in goods, and on this
subject also the ingenuity of the Legislature had beau for the