The Sun.
London, England, 1829-04-06 00:00:00

•.
humane emancipation. These evils were, it, was now
allowed, of very long stanaing: thelangln.ge of an
enlightened writer, theSe evils were pOvertn deproision,
Want of education, the relaxation of industry, the want
of encouragement—the want of proper protection for the
poor, want of sympathy ,in the landlords— the
distress er,isii-eT from the, necessity .of p4in4.,,t4116;
•
to tile k.:hurcii, whilst they ha 4 tneir own ciergy
to support—rents out of proportion to their means—
want of the necessaries of life, and above all, a distrust in
the administration of justice.—(Cheers. )—Remove these
grotind: of complaint then, make it the landlord's interest to
attend. the wafts of hit teuentry, check rapine,,pre
vent ~i(Aen-te, Mid rut an end td miss tilt,. These
were the first duties of a wise, considerate, and
beneficent Legislature. The next, to give the people edu-
cation.—(He tr.)—Much had been done hi thii way of
late ells, ef.rkr the Administrations of Lords Liverpool
and his Noble Friend—much had been done for
the education of Ireland. The powers of the Grand
Jury had been enlarged—beneficial changes bad been
merle in the Courts of justice in ireland—constabulary
force had been estahlished, and what was of no less im-
portance, justice was now in open courts in Ireland.
Who could deny that the result of all this was not an in-
creased confidence in the people of that country in the ad-
ministratiori of justice?—(Hear.)—But this was not all,
He might allude to other meastires,—the review of the
whole state of the magistracy in that country—a better
arrangement of tithes. This measure alone was sufficient
to stamp a value upon an Administration which con-
.

furred so great and so important a boon upon Ireland;
other suggestions equally beneficial had been made by other
administrations, though not unfortunately carried into
effect. Ile alluded to the suggestion of appointing Lord
Lieutenants of tha counties in Ireland as they were here;
it could not be denied that there was wanting some such
responsible officers who would he answerable for the recom-
mendation of Magistrates, and whose business it would be
to punish any delinquency that took place in the due admi-
nistration of justice in that country. Looking then at the
situation of things in Ireland, and judging by the rules that
governed huMan nature in the abstract, he should say tbat
the true benevolence of legislation was not in the
granting of Catholic emancipation ; but in the carry-
ing into effect the unnecessary suggestions which had
been made by former Administrations. Noble Lords
might then with sincerity put their hands on their hearts,
and congratulate themselves on the state of things which
they had produced. They might then indeed realize the
picture which they had drawn in their imaginations,

.•
which, as applied to this Bill, had no solid materials
for its construction ; they might then figure to

themselves the agitations now so- dangerous to autho.

rity removed—(hear)—the condition of their tenants
improved; the value of their rents enLauced, and more
freely paid; confidence increased, or at least the terrors
reduced in the tn'n I of the labourer that the fruits of his

exertions would not be his own property. The grea,

grievance of Ireland was distres., arising from the want of
food.—(Hear, hear.)—The remedy for that was acknow-
ledged on all hands to he the influx of capital, but

. -
by a strange round-about mode of reasoning the mea-
sure of Catholic Emancipation, which after all must
influence only remotely and circuitously the sources
of capital, were said to be the means of curing those evils.
Surely when public confidence in the administration of
the law was increased, Noble Lords must admit that that
was pro tent° a palliative for the evils of Ireland. In •
crease that confidence then, give them an equal and im-
partial system of law ; educate the people, stimulate their

industry; that was the true way to legislate for Ireland, and
not the measure now under consideration.—(Cheers.)—He
acknowledged being disappointed of securities in this
1311; he thought it would only tend to increase the dis-
sat,sfaction of the ii)rotestant population, and by no means
give satisfaction to a portion of the Catholic community.
He in his conscience Lelieved that the wiser course was
now to resist encroachments when we were better able to
do so than at a future time, when we would be in a worse
condition to resist them. Generous minds must he grati-
fied at seeing one's fellow-subjects restored to the full enjoy-
ment of their rights, but there were higher interests which
must be consulted before one yielded to the kindlier,
and therefore, perhaps, weaker suggestions of one's
mnlings. The Noble Lord concluded by reading a por-
tion of a letcer in which the author recom-
mended that the wise examples of our ancestors ought
to be followed, who had never given up solid substances
for theoretical speculations, and that like them we ought
to endeavour to gain the confidence of our Mends, and the
respect of our enemies, by manfully hazarding every thing
. .

_in &f-nee of that fabric of the Constitution which had
been handed down to us sanctified by such high authority,
and by such long experience.-.-(Cheers.)
Lord WESTMORELAND rose to explain, I think 1
' could mat soy more, observed the Noble Lordi to satisfy the
Noble Lord who has just sat down, than that I considered
myself as much concerned in these transactions as I consi-
dered him ; that whether the measures were right or wrong,
I was equally right or equally wrong with himself; therefore
it is quite impossible I could mean any reflection, and I beg
to assure the Noble Lord that I most distinctly disavow it.
Lord LIVERPOOL said—My Lords, I wish to make
a few observations with respect to the motives that have
actuated me on the present occasion. This is tendered the
more incumbent upon me by the remarks of the Noble Lord
who has just risen in explanation upon the administration
of my late lamented brother. The Noble Lord in the
course of his remarks has alluded to circumstances which
have arisen, noomoitientarily, not from yesterday, but from
a long course of events, which have been urging on the
consideration of the great measure of to-day, and the things
which have now been brought under our view bring to
light circumstances that prove, if the Noble Duke will al-
lOw me to say so, that he possesses information at this
time which at former periods he was deficient in.
—(Hear, hoar, hear, hear.)—On these points I shall take
the liberty of saying that for the twenty years I have bad
the honour of a seat in the Lower House, I have uniformly
been against admission to the Roman Catholics. But, my
Lords, I do not see so distinctly as some enlightened Noble
Lords do, the dangers which are likely to ensue from the
admission of Roman Catholics into power. On the other
hand I uniformly thought the carrying of this question
would not so immediately produce that which its warmest
supporters are anxious to attribute to it.—(Hear, hear. )
But, my Lords, at last I have thought, and thought
rightly I believe, that that circumstance has been greatly
produced by the carrying of this measure, for it will be
followed by other measures producing still greater ad-
vantages. My Lords, what makes me more of this opinion
is, that the circumstances which the Noble Lord mentioned,
I mean particularly the circumstance of a divided Cabinet,
I do not enter into the circumstances, but it plainly ap-
pears by what the Noble Lord said just now, that much
difference prevailed in the appointment of the Secretary,
lie having evidently made it appear how difficult it was to
make an appointment that would produce entire satisfaction.
My Lords, having been myself connected with public
affairs I am sure that great and enormous must those diffi-
culties be in the time of a divided cabinet. What, my
Lords, was the consequence? Almost always, when a
question with respect to Ireland was agitated, something
occurred to put a stop to its discussion. If Iliad arisen in the
spirit with which the Noble Lord rose, perhaps I might
have addressed the House inStliii.same feeling's of irritation.
I believe that during the 11 years Lord Liverpool presided
over the Administration he did all in his power that he
considered would be beneficial to the empire, with,.
out reference to any private feelings whatever,
or to the opinions of those who did not accord with him.
In saying this, my Lords, I think I have a right to assert
that it is due to his memory, I had almost said to his
great natne.—(Hear, hear.)—l am extremely glad to
have had the opportunity given for explaining. Ido not
mean to enter at large into the subject. This question
has been discussed by many Learned Prelates with great
force, and great learning, and with that I shall leave it to
them, satisfied as I am, that there is no danger to
the Clergy by the measure now to be proposed. With
respect to the Church of England, it stands on
too great an eminence, it is guarded by too
strong a bulwark ever to be affected by a mea-
sure of this kind. If I wanted any proof of this., I
have only to look at the petitions that have been laid
upon your Lordships' table, not taking into consideration
the manner in which some of them have been got up, but
looking to them for the purpose of teeing the disposition of
the Protestant people of England. In them you view the
resting place of the Church of England and the solidity of
its foundation. Unless you see all these affections and feel-
ings broke down, it is impossible to consider the Church
can be in danger. I wished, nay Lords, for an opportunity
of explaining myself. If I have shown to your Lordships
that Lord Liverpool's station during these periods was one.
of great difficulty.—that he was obliged to consider the cir-
cumstances and feelings of various men—l have satisfied
myself on that point. The other point of declaring my-
self manfully and plainly a supporter of this measure, and
its desirable effects likely to be produced from it, I have
met with great pleasure.
Lord TENTvIiDEN and Lord FARNUA3I rose at the same
time.

Lord TENTERDEN addressed the House. My Lords,
it will not be expected from a person in my situation that
I should express an opinion, without endeavouring to make.
known the grounds upon which that opinion is founded;
consistently with the law of the land. Some Noble per-
suns in the Meuse, and many why speak and write'Ou this j