The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-29 00:00:00

E SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, MAY 29, 1845.

the comparative state of cultivation in,Francewas as per-
fect ignorance with that of England. Ho believed that ,
the introduction of the improved system in England was
not anterior to the year 1791, and all the great altera-
tions had taken place since them. This was the case
with the Norfolk system, and with the system pursued
in Lincolnshire and the Lothians. He did not like any
of those resolutions, which made the interest of the
labouring classes appear different from their own. It
was not the ease; and in the declaration of such a prin-
ciple he thought they were arming Mr. O'Connell with
tenfold power, and they were only increasing their diffi-
culties, while, on the contrary, if they were to pursue the
right course, he was assured that the Irish peasant would
soon care little for Maynooth ; but would be led to con-
sider and value the means by which the welfare of his
family and himself was to be promoted.
Lord HOWICK said that there was one part of the
speech of the Right Hon. Baronet who had just sat
down, which he wished had been addressed to the House
in a former debate—he meant that part of the speech in
which the Right Hon. Baronet stated that the system of
protection to agriculture had been instrumental rather
in the improvement than the retarding of agriculture.
He did think, that if the Right Hon. Baronet had lis-
tened to the arguments advanced in introducing the
motion of the Hon. Member for Stockport (Mr. Cobden)
tor an inquiry into the state of the farmer and the far-
mer's labourer,with aview to suggest some moans for their
improvement, that he would not that night have come down
to the House with the observations which he had now
addressed to it. If he had listened to that speech,
which he was bound to say was replete with informa-
tion and sound reasoning, he would have come to the
conclusion that protection had checked and retarded
the spirit of agricultural improvements. If such were
not the cane, how was it that in this department of na-
tional industry there had been no improvement during
the long peace with which we had been so happily
blessed? He thought that that speech had fully demon-
strated to the House that it had been checked and re-
tarded, and the reasons adduced had in his mind been
decisive of the question. Yet the Hon. Baronet had
neither met the arguments nor assisted them in obtain-
ing the Committee. But what did the Honourable
Baronet say on the subject as to the extent of
the improvement. All he could say was that
there had been improvement. They should decide that
there had been improvement ; but would any one who
had heard the arguments advanced in that debate venture
to say that that improvement was the consequence of
protective laws. But it was not his object to press the
arguments of the Honourable Baronet into discussion,
but his object was rather to make some general remarks
to the House on the general tendency of the general
object of his Noble Friend's motion. The way in which
the motion had been met on the part of the Government
appeared to him most extraordinary. The only speech
indeed from that side of the House had been made by

. ......
the Right Honourable Baronet the Secretary for the
Home Department. When a Member of the Govern-
ment rose he fully expected that he would pro-
pose one of two courses. Either that he would
have met the arguments or would have attempted
to deny the situation of the labouring classes. This was
one line ; the other was an admission of the condition
of the labouring classes, and all the evils which were
consequent upon it ; but, however much it might be
desired, yet Parliament was unable to prevent th?m.
But neither of these two courses had been taken, and he
therefore thought the attempt to bring them before the
House by these resolutions was net a vain one, and this
he thought was a sufficient answer to several of the
arguments of the Hon. Baronet who had just sat down.
But how did the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for
the Home Department meet the arguments of his Noble
Friend? He did not attempt to meet the argument
at all, but he came down to the House and made a
speech, in which he told the House that he should meet
his Noble Friend by moving the previous question.
There was no doubt but that the situation of the labour-
ing classes was in the extreme unsatisfactory, and yet he
refused to bring it under the consideration of the House.
The Right Hon. Baronet had stated that it was the duty
of the House to consider the interests of all classes of
the community, but he (Lord Howick) thought it was
especially their duty to take care of the interests of the
labouring community. This, he believed, it was in their
power to do; and it was the duty of the Legislature to
devise such measures as would improve the condition of
those classes who were least able to help themselves;
and he thought that the object of the Govern-
ment would have been to meet the whole of the
difficulty laid before them, and not to obviate all
inquiry by moving the previous question.—(Hear.)
This was the way in which the Right Hon. Baronet met
the question—(Hear, hear.) He said he would neither
affirm nor deny that measures were required for the im-
provement of the labouring classes which it was in the
power of Parliament to adopt. He (Lord Howick) would
say that was a mode of meeting the question which, if
the House coincided in, would sufficiently evidence that
it shrunk from its duty—(Hear, hear). He could un-
derstand that the Right Hon. Baronet might either deny
that such misery really existed, er that, granting that it
did, he might propose an amendment, calling on the
House to say that it was impossible that by any change
in the law they could relieve the distress which was so
universally prevalent. He (Lord Howick) could
understand a Minister of the House taking either
of these courses, but he was quite at a loss to understand
how a Minister could propose, or the House coincide,
in saying that this subject was unfitted for the conside-
ration of Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) If he could rightly,
understand the object of the Noble Lord who had in-
troduced these resolutions, it was to call en the House,
first of all, to recognise the fact that the condition of the
labouring classes of this country was far from satisfac-
tory—one in which something might be done for their
improvement and welfare ; and, next, to point out
what were the principles on which those measures he
would recommend for their relief, should be based.
Having laid down these principles, he (Lord
Howick) further understood the Noble Lord's
views to be, that this question was so large
and so important that it ought to be left with the
advisors of the Crown to embody and propose to the
House measures in accordance with his principles. That
appeared to him the proper and Parliamentary mode, and
he confessed that he did not understand the ground on
which the Hon. Baronet who spoke last (Sir John
Walsh) found fault with the resolutions, as calculated to
establish a difference between the labouring and other
classes. lie (Lord Howick) did not so read them. He
did not understand the Noble Lord to argue that mea-
sures should be passed benefiting the labouring classes
at the expense of others. What he understood from the
speech of his Noble Friend was, that the adoption of mea-
sures, founded on those principles,weuld not only be bene-
ficial to the whole nation, but to every class in the commu
nity. He understood, indeed, that his propositions es-
pecially referred to the labouring classes, as their condi-
tion at that moment was one peculiarly requiring the in-
terference of the Heusi. Now, if he were right in his
construction of these resolutions, he thought it followed
that they on that (the Opposition) side of the House
were entitled to expect;the support of every Hon. Mem-
ber who agreed in thinking that if the condition of the
labouring classes were such as required the adoption of
some means or other of improvement, whether they were
agreed or not as to what that improvement might be,
because if they differed as to the means to
be adopted for this object, they might do so in a
snbsequeut stage, by moving an amendment when the
actual measures were brought under the consideration of
the House. But this he did think, that there was some-
thing amiss in the present social system that required
amending ; and he was of opinion, that those who
entertained those views, however widely they might
differ from them on other subjects, were bound to concur
in the adoption of the Noble Lord's first resolution.—
(Hear, hear.) He could not help feeling somewhat
disappointed, in seeing that the attendance in the House
was not better than it was. (There were about forty
Members present)—and, above all, he was greatly disap-
pointed in not seeing in his place the Noble Lord the
Member for Dorsetshire, and other gentlemen who had
concurred with him in bringing at various times, under the
consideration of the House, the condition of some portion
of the population of the country. That Noble Lord
had devoted much of his time and attention—and in a
manner highly praiseworthy—to the bringing before the
House the condition of the women in mines, of the chil-
dren in factories, and of other branches of the labouring
population ; and therefore he (Lord Howick) confessed
that he was very greatly disappointed that that Noble
Lord was not present to support them in proposing some
means for relieving the distresses—not of a particular
section, but of the people generally, especially as all those
grievances, and all those sufferings did not arise from
any particular local cause, but were symptomatic of a
general evil, which lay at the bottom of the whole case
—namely, the inability of the working classes of this
country to obtain a fair remuneration for their labour—
an inability to command a market sufficiently certain.
All these distresses, all these grievances, arose from this
ens source; and the attempts made in various ways to get over
the difficulties which the population were labouring under, but
added to the existing evil.—( Hear, hear.) When, therefore,
this proposition of the Noble Lord was one not tending to darn
up the channels of industry, but to open still more the courses
from which prosperity flowed, he did feel disappointed at the
absence of the Noble Lord, the Member for Dorsetshire, be-
cause, had the Noble Lord been in the House, he (Lord
Howick) had so muoh confidence in the sincerity of his inten-
tions, in the honesty of his motives, and in his fervent desire
for the welfare of the poorer classes of his fellow-countrymen,
that he was sure that if they could have shown to him that by
the adoption of the principle on which these resolutions were
founded the welfare of the poorer classes could be promoted, he
was sure that that Noble Lord would have supported them
whatever might have been his previous opinion, or however
opposed these resolutions might be to his former policy or to
the opinions of the party with which he was politically con-
nected.—( Hear, hear.) He (Lord Howick) had already said
that the objects of this motion were just to call on the House
to recognise the existence of a state of things in which the
interference of the House was necessary in behalf of the working
classes, and he had also expressed his opinion that
he thought they were entitled to expect the
support of all those who did not consider the present
condition of the working classes as satisfactory, unless, indeed,
they also thought that no legislative enactment could assist to
remove them. Now he would ask if, in the speech of the
Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department,
he had said one word which was calculated to lead to the con-
clusion either that the present condition of the working classes
was in any way satisfactory, or that it would not be in the
power of Parliament to remedy it? That the condition of the
working classes was far from satisfactory he was willing to take
on the evidence of the Right Hon. Baronet himself. He said
that the Noble Lord rightly stated the wages of the labourer
in the agricultural districts of England. He believed per-
fectly well that if throughout the whole nation they
took the average rate of wages, the statement of
his Nohle Friend might eerhaps be too low, but
in very many of the counties of England they had the strongest
proofs that the statements of the Noble Lord were correct. If
they looked at Wilts, Dorsetshire, and Sussex ; parts of
North Devon, and other counties in the south and west of
England, the rate of wages would be found to be miserably
low. He would ask the Right Honourable Baronet whether
the wages in these counties could be considered satisfactory—
whether they were not such as necessarily to entail great
suffering and great ptivations on those by whom they were
received? (Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Baronet

had referred to the improvements in the manufacturing dis-
tricts. He (Lord Howick) was happy to believe that such
improvements had an existence, but he would ask the Right
Honourable Baronet, if he himself had not, two years ago, al-
luded to the sufferings which prevailed in the manufacturing
districts 1 He (Lord Howick) had, in 1843, brought the snb •
ject before the House, and at that time it was not dis-

puted that throughout the whole manufacturing districts
of England and Scotland misery and distress prevailed to a
most alarming extent. It had lasted for three or four
years, and it had then risen to its height. The description
of things as then existing was absolutely heart-rending. The
Right Hon. Baronet in describing the improvement which had
now taken place, himself went back to that former state of
things, and pointed out how fearful was that distress, But,
he would ask, what was the inference to be drawn from that
very fact? Why, that the manufacturing labourers, if they
took his average earnings, was not greatly superior in condi-
tion to the agricultural labourer. No doubt at this moment
they were blessed with prosperity. But how was that? Be.
cause they had had good harvests, because they had low prices
for food, and because those low prices enabled the population
to consume bread, sugar, and tea, and that had itself assisted
in producing a flourishing state of trade. For this reason,
therefore, their manufacturing districts were at that moment in
a comparative state of ease. But was that to continue perma.
nent ? Was that state of things to be depended on? Did
they feel convinced that two bad harvests would not occur in
succession to change their present commercial prosperity ? Was
it not better, then, to take advantage of this short interval of
prosperity, so as to deliberate calmly on those measures which
they might think best calculated to ensure a permanent im-
provement in the condition of the working classes? They
might n sse search this matter clearly and fully, and without
any undue influence being exercised to bias their delibera-
tions : but if this state of things should change—if, by a suc-
cession of bad harvests the pressure of misery and distress
should again be felt in the manufacturing districts, paralysing all
their energies, he would ask them whether they could, in such
a case, so advantageously and satisfactorily, he would say, and
safely, discuss the great question as to the causes
on which the prosperity of the working classes depended?
But it was obvious to every man, and simply because they could
not depend upon the continuance of this prosperity, that it did
no good, if it did not do injury to the agriculturist. It was
perfectly clear, that the great demand for labour which now
existed in the manufacturing districts, could not he looked on
as a permanency, and the labourers of the agricultural dis-
tricts could not conceal from themselves that a recurrence
might ere long take place, of that distress and suffering which
had formerly prevailed, and which had succeeded to a previous
period of prosperity.—( Hear, hear. ) With an anticipated
recurrence of these things before their eyes, the present
great demand for labour in the manufacturing districts
had a tendency to remove some of the difficulties which
pressed upon the agricultural portion of the community. For
were it not that the present state of things could not be de-
pended upon they would have large bodies of the labourers of
Dorsetshire and Buckinghamshire flocking to Manchester and
Liverpool. But although the present condition of the manu-
facturing labourer was greatly superior to that of the agricul-
tural labourer, he believed, upon an average of years—take
for instance two :Tars together—they would find that there
was hardly any, or at all events no material distinction
between the two; and the question was one which
ought to be considered, and, if it were possible to improve
it, it was their duty to adopt measures aiming at that improve-
ment, and the only question was whether that improvement
was in their power, because the course for them to consider
was whether they ought to adopt these resolutions or not. Now
the taking of such a step depended simply upon the considera-
tion of whether it was practicable for Parliament to do any
thing for :improving the condition of the working
classes generally._( Hear.) Now, in coming to this question,
he could not help observing that very many unfounded objec-
tions had been made to the resolutions. One of those objec-
tions was, that they opened so wide a field and extended so
far. Now he thought, when his Noble Friend was bringing
before their attention the necessity for doing something. for the
benefit of the labouring classes, it was his business to point out
not only the details, but in general terms the principles of the
different measures which he thought ought to be adopted for
their benefit. And he (Lord Hewick) thought it more impor-
tant that the Noble Lord should do this, because he entirely
agreed in the opinion expressed on a former evening by his
Right Hon. Friend the Member for Taunton, that these reso-
lutions were no less important from what they include, than
what they exclude.—(Hear.) They all knew that there was
at this moment a very general feeling amongst large
masses of the community, that the time had arrived when some-
thing ought to be done for the welfare and improvement of the
working classes.—( Hear, hear.) There was amongst the
community at large a most praiseworthy and a most honest—
but he was afraid, in many cases, not a very well regulated—
desire for doing something for the benefit of the working
classes. The measures which had been brought forward or
suggested by some of those who entertained this feeling, would,
in his opinion, only add to the distress which they meant to
correct.—( Hear, hear.) It was, therefore, of great import-
ance that his Noble Friend, in bringing these resolutions be-
fore! the House, had, in point of fact, shown them what were
the limits and powers of Parliament in taking steps for the im-
provement of the working classes. It was important that there
resolutions should point out to them how far they could go,
and what they could not do for the benefit of the working
classes. But of the different classes of evils which his Noble
Friend had pointed out in the resolutions, there were two of
them which were most closely and most intimately connected
together. fhe people of this country, at this moment, were
suffering both from evils arising from ignorance, which all the
efforts which Parliament had yet taken had only partially suc-
ceeded in dispelling, and also from the physical evils arising out
of poverty; and in his opinion these two evils were very
closely connected together. Poverty often resulted from
ignorance, and poverty and ignorance together naturally cor-
rupted the minds of some of the rising generation. They all
knew that those who had the advantages of a good education,
and whose minds were endowed with sound principles and
useful knowledge, had seldom any difficulty in obtaining em-
ployment at a tolerably fair remuneration.—(Hear, hear.)
Their intelligence rendered their services so much more
valuable, and hence they commanded in the market a fair, and
in some instances, a liberal remuneration; and therefore it was
he said, that ignorance was one cause of poverty, but on the ether
hand, it was no less certain that poverty was one cause of ig-
norance. His Noble Friend had correctly painted out that it
was quite impossible for a population suffering under the l res-
sure of great physical distresses to endeavour to obtain the
blessings of education. How was it possible for a labouring
man residing in acottage in Dorsetshire, and earning 7s. per
week, to pay a highi rent for his cottage, a high price for his
fuel, and feed and clothe his wife and children, to give his chil-
dren any education at all ?—( Hear, hear.) No ;it was totally
impossible ; and the consequence was the rising generation of
Dorset and other districts were brought up in such a way
as to enable them to supply their animal or immediate
wants. It was clear, therefore, to him, that these two evils
were closely connected, and his Noble Friend had done well in
pointing out, in one of the resolutions which he had laid on the
table, that one important means for improving the condition of
the labouring population was to be found in education.—
(Hear, hear.) They must combine with those measures
which might be hit upon for raising the physical condition of
the people, other measures for dispelling that ignorance which
at present prevailed amongst large portions of the working
classes.—( Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend, in his resolutions,
had pointed out generally what were the means which he would
propose to be adopted in both cases, but he (Lord
Howick) thought they were all agreed as to the necessity for
and importance of education, and he should, therefore, centime
his remarks to the second measure. His Noble Friend had
pointed out the means to he adopted—which he thought ought
to be adopted—for improving the physical condition of the
people and mitigating the sufferings they occasionally had to
encounter. Now, it was most true that neither Government
nor Parliament could effectually regulate the wages of the la-
bourer by legislative enactments. Experience taught them
that it was out of the power of Parliament to adopt measures
for that purpose. Indeed, any attempt of that kind hitherto
only tended to aggravate, instead of remove the evil, but his
Noble Friend did not propose any such mischievous mea-
sure as this. What he proposed was simply to release the
labourer from the restrictions which were at present placed
upon his industry. Their argument was, that the restrictions
imposed upon the freedom of industry were the direct cause of
the present sufferings of the working classes, and all that was
required of Government was to remove these restrictions, and
leave the labouring man free to make the most of his own
labour in his own way. If they did that, the known perse-
verance and honest industry of the English labourer would
always secure to him a comfortable subsistence.—( Hear. )
Let hint remind the House of the great distinction between a
society in a state of civilisation and a society in a state of bar-
barism. And what was it produced this great distinction ?
It was, he believed, mainly the comparative efficiency of labour
in civilised nations which produced that amount of wealth and
capital which enabled them to go on employing more labourers.
—( Hear, hear.) He was ashamed to go bask to mere ele-
mentary propositions. But because they were overlooked in
that House, or their vast importance underrated (Cheers)
—he was induced to trouble the House by referring to
them.—( Hear.) It was the free interchange of labour ren-
dered practicable by the absence of laws of restriction which
enabled the division of labour to be fully carried out.—( Hear.)
It was the want of that free interchange of the products of
labour which caused the low state of the industrious classes in
those countries where commerce was restricted.—( Cheers. )
By one man's applying himself to a particular occupation, more
was produced for himself and more for the community
of which he was a member, than if he could
not rely upon a certain supply of fond for the exchange
of Isis own productions.—(Hear, hear.) It was by the industry
of one country producing what another wants, that commerce
made men rich and happy. It was by that beautiful machinery
of Providence, that various nations were mutually blessed
through the industry of each other.—( Cheers. ) It followed
then, that when you interfered with the exchange of produc-
tions—when you prevented corn being sent to countries which
could produce clothes more easily, you interfered with one of
the greatest blessings of Providence.—(Cheers.) That doc-
trine was as old as Adam Smith.—( Cheers and laughter.)
But it was as clear as arithmetic.—(Cheers.) It was there.
fore a necessary and inevitable consequence that the whole sys-
tem of protection was calculated to lower and degrade not only
the working classes, but all classes of the community in the
country which adopted that system. —( Hear, hear.) But
amongst all other systems of protection, h saw none so mis-
chievous as that which, in a densely peopled country, refused
to admit the introduction of foreign food, io exchange
fur the products of domestic labour—(Cheers). That system
was so monstrous and indefensible, and still so stoutly main-
tained that it could not be too often discussed in that House—
( Cheers). But the discussion would be best brought before
the House on the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for
Wolverhampton respecting the Corn Laws—( Hear, hear ). At
present he wished to confine himself to the effect of those re-
strictive laws upon the condition of the working classes of
this country ; which would be best understood by comparing
it with that of the working classes in these countries in which
food was snore easily obtained—as in the United States and in
our own province of Canada—(Hear, hear.) This had been
often pointed out, and no answer had been made. He must
now content himself by showing that no answer was possible
—( Hear, hear). He asked the Right llon. Baronet at the
head of the Government, for a plain and direct answer—(Cries
of " Hear, hear"). How was it that this English peasant,
when he emigrated to Canada, the United States, or
South Australia, found that he could obtain the
necessaries, and even the luxuries of life, to an extent of which
he knew nothing at home ?—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon.
Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department
had told the House that there had been a large emigration of
labourers to Canada, and that the emigrants were all well off.
Now, he wanted to know how it happened that all those men
who had been so badly off an home, were so well off in another
country?—( Hear, hear.) It was not because they were more
industrious than at home, for no one had ever found fault with
their industry at home.—(llear, hear.) At home they ha,l
had all the vast resources of this great country, in capital and
machinery, to render their labour productive.—( Hear, hear. )
The cause could not be that they were less taxed in Canada or
in the United States, for it was demonstrable that, in propor-
tion to its wealth, this country was the most lightly taxed in
the world. (Cheers, and cries of " Oh, oh.") It
was undeniable that the amount of land which
lay open to them to cultivate, was the great
cause of their improved condition ; and to resider
their condition at home equally comfortable and in-
dependent, it was only necessary to throw open to them, for
the exchange of the products of their labour, those wide lands
of the earth, where food was abundant, and the peculiar pro-
ducts of their own industry most needed. These countries
could all produce corn muck cheaper and in much greater
abundance titan they required. Australia could very well send