The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-14 00:00:00

TILE STN, LONDON, PRIDAY_IVIOIINING,_MAIteII 14, 1845.

Of bread, he had very far from sufficient ; of meat, he
seldom or ever tasted—( Bear)—his clothing was inade-
qaete and as to beer, coffee, and tea, he had infinitely
below h'B reasonable, share.—(Hear, hear.) Why any
one of them could not beep a labouring man and his
family for twine the money that the labourer could him-
self support them. How was this to be accounted for
From one or other of these causes—either that the
whole supply of the nati.sn was below the wants
of the nation, or el'e the labourer did not
receive a fair proportion ; or else the supply was both
too small and even of that the labourer did not receive
his due proportion. If that were admitted, he would
follsw up his argument by showing that the system of
protective duties had diminished the whole supply of
the necessaries required for the national wants, and that
it else a'tered the distribution of that supply. As to the
first point, it was too plain to be denied by any one.
Ile would make that out in a short time. He would
take an illustration from the sugar duties. He had
shown a few nights ago that the same amount of manu-
factured goods or money would buy 28i tons
of Brazil sugar, and oily 181 of colonial sugar.
He would state the matter at a disadvantage, because
the difference of the price between colonial and foreign
sugar was different to what it was now.—(Hear,) If
the duty on sugar was placel upon a proper foundation
they would be enabled to get in the country twenty-
six t ,us of sugar in the place of eighteen.—(hear.)
Now, could it be for one moment doubt: d, that what
was true with respect to sugar, was equally so with
respect to coffee and meet?—(Tear, hear) The first
was indirect taxation, and was bad; it diminished the
teenforte of the poor, and that was its avowed object
and design.—(llear.) The protective duties were put
on for that obj ct and nothing else.—(Hear, hear.)
He theught, therefore, the, it was not only not
unreasonable to ask for, but it was the bounden duty of the
House to grant a Committee to inquire into the subject.
Could any one deny that there was some connexion between the
distresses of the people and scarcity, especially when that scrrcity
AS occastoned by the law ? Now, with respect to the corn-laws,
the) deprived the lab-uring man of his proper remuneration ;
labour was not protected, and he believed that the cause of the
want of the necessaries of life in America arose in consequence
of their copying what had taken place in this country with re-
spect to the restriction upon the fruits of industry.
He did not see how inquiry could be refused on
this important subject; if they refused it, they
would go before the country with this feeling,
that they were maintaining laws for the benefit of the owners
of the land, and for the purpose of keeping up rents and aggra-
vating the distress of the people. Was this consistent with
the Divine precept, that " the labourer was worthy of his
hire ?"—( Hear, hear.) But what was the fact ? Why,
while the wealthy classes were increasing in their comforts,
the poor man's rents were doubled. The hire of the labourer,
who reaped and ploughed the fields, had been kept back by
fraud. He did not attempt to impute to any of tte Gentle-
men opposite the maintenance of laws that operated against
the working classes—the labouring classes. They were bound
by the most solemn obligations to neglect nothing to alleviate
the condition of their fellow-men—( Hear, hear)—and how,
there fore, could they refuse granting the Committee that was
now asked by the Hon. Member for Stockport?—( Hear, hear. )
If they went into Committee he was content-4 Hear, hear)—
but then he would say that they could not be justified in the
eyes of God or man in retaining those laws unless they granted
inquiry.—( Hear, hear.) He could never believe that an
All-wise and Beneficent Creator, who had pronounced upon
the human race the curse of labour, ever intended that labour
should go unrewarded.—( Hear, hear.) Let them remember
that every man among them was as answerable for that share
of political power which they enjoyed as Members of that
House, and for the use he made of it in reference to the con-
dition andiwelare of the humble classes, as he was fur his con-
duct in private life ; and if they did remember this, they would
hardly censent to reject the motion.
Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN said he was quite sure that
a suspicion never entered the mind of any Member of that
House that the Noble Lord, in quoting that book to which he
had'referred in his speech, had any intention of making a per-
sonal application ; but at the same time the House would
agree with him that it was desirable to make allowances for
those who, as conscientiously as the Noble Lord, came to a dif-
ferent conclusion.—( Hear, hear.) Now, when they combined
what the Noble Lord had said, stating, as he had done, that no
other labourers, artificers, or manufacturers, were able to com-
pete with English labourers, English artisans, and Erglish ma-
nufacturers, and that there was more corn grown in England,
compared with the quantity of acres, than in any other country
in the world exclusive of the Netherlands, he thought they
would allow that the case had not been very definitively
made out against the system under which such a state of things
existed. It appeared that there was a little contrariety of opi-
nion between the Noble Lord and the Hon. Member for Stock-
port. The Hon. Member for Stockport had said, the other
night; that in proportion as they receded from the tall chimneys
they found agriculture neglected; while the Noble Lord had
stated that evening that, in the neighbourhood of Lancashire,
rushes were growing upon the lands.—(Hear, hear.) It the
latter statement were true, instead of going into the agricultu-
ral districts, the Anti-Corn-law League should look to the
vicinity of their own town, where they might find land to be
drained, farms to be improved, and rushes to be eradicated.
Now, he had himself at a former pet iod given notice of his in-
tention to move for a committee to ire wire into the causes and
extent of agricultural - distress ; b t he was anxious
that it should be entirely a farmer's and farm-labourer's motion.
if the House granted this moved for by the Hon. Member, it
would be met ely a matter for political economists and free-
traders. Independently of the words of his motion, the animus
of the lion. Member's speech made him doubt whether he
would be justified in giving him his support. Skilful as that
speech was, able in its details, and unvioleut in its language,
when he considered the picture which the Hon. Member had
drawn of the tenants-at-will and the tenants-at-lease, he could
not help thinking that he made a serious charge without dis-
tinction of party against the landowners of England. When
he heard him say that nothing could be more miserable than
the condition of those classes of persons, that they were
averse to all improvement, that they lived in indo-
lence, sloth, and inactivity, and were constantly coming to
that House for protection, he certainly did feel that it would
not be b coming in him, returned as he had been by an agri•
cultural constituency, deeply honouring the landowners of this
country, and feeling that on the whole they had done their
duty, to vote for a motion which had been introduced by such
a speech.—( Hear, hear.) Be had the high authority of the
Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, for de-
claring that the decision with reference to a motion for a
Committee was is a great degree to be determined by the
animus of him who moved for it.—(Hear, hear.) On the
whole he was very sorry that the Government had chosen to
refuse this Committee.—( Hear, hear.) He regretted that his
Right Hon. Friend, speaking the sentiments of the Govern-
ment, had felt it his duty to recommend him to withdraw his
amendment. He knew very well what was the meaning of that
advice. Though it was given with all that agreeableness and
good nature which rendered everything that fell from that
gifted gentleman so undisagreeable—(Laughter)—softening
down the refusal of the negative as much as possible, it was
still tantamount to saying " If you divide on your amendment,
you will find yourself in a miserable minority."—(No, no.)
Now there were three parties in that House in reference to this
Committee. There were the free traders, who were anxious
for a Committee to blow up the country gentlemen. There
was the Government, which refused this Committee,
for the old official reason, that to grant it would create excite-
ment, and raise unfounded expeetations.'—( Hear, hear, and
laughter.) The third party was himself, who earnestly wished
the inquiry, from a belief that so far from exciting it would
tend to soothe, and that so far from unsettling it would tend
to tranquillise the country.—(Hear, hear.) He could tell
Hon. Members, that if they thought agricultural distress
was local they were completely in the wrong ; and as
he was not to have the opportunity of bringing these
farmers there to speak for themselves, he trusted that
the House would permit him to read some extracts from the
speeches which they had made when they had met together.
(Hear, hear.) If they had often exaggerated, that was one
reason in favour of allowing them to come before the House,
in order that mistakes might be removed. He would begin
with a meeting at Market Harborough. The Hon. Member
then read a resolution, to the effect, that the admission of
foreign corn at the present low rate of duty was unexpected
and uncalled for. The Hon. Member next read a petition
from Durham, stating that the agriculturists had been greatly
injured by the late alteration in the corn-law, the tariff, and
the law with respect to Canadian corn. The Honourable
Member then read resolutions passed at meetings in
Devonshire and in Lincolnshire, couched in similar
language. A resolution passed at a meeting in Shrop-
shire, recommended the imitation of the spirit of union ex-
hibited by the members of the Anti-Corn law League. The
Agricultural Pi otection Societies of Rutland, Leicestershire,
Essex, and Staffordshire, all sroke in a similar tone, all declared
that distress existed equal to that he had read. Therefore,
when the Right Hon. Member for North Wiltshire said the
distress was local, he must inform him that he did not speak the
sentiments of the farmers. The distress of these farmers was
exaggerated by the feeling that the Government was either not
aware of its extent or pressure. Had one-half of the distress
existing among the farmers, existed in the manufac-
turing districts, there would have been no end to the
clamour raised in their behalf.—( Hear, hear,) He did not
say that in that case he should blame the manufacturers—he
did not say that in such case he should blame the farmers. lie
should nit, on the one hand, charge the manufacturers with
being too clamorous, nor on the other hand would he accuse the
farmers of being too supine. But he begged the House to
remember that the characteristics of the two classes
were essentially different. It was the habit of one
class to unite—of the other to endure in isolation.
Therefore, when the question of agricultural distress came
before the House, both that House and the Government, what-
ever might be its political complexion, ought to remember the
characteristics of these two classes, and be careful how they
neglected the claims of the agriculturists. he Right Hon.
Member for North Wiltshire had said he did not wi h to see
agriculturists come whining to that House for protection.
He (Mr. Stafford O'Brien) should himself be sorry to see the
bold yeomen of England come whining to that House, or else-
where. But he was sure the Right Hon Ger:dem:al did not
mean to say that if any portion of her Majesty's subjects felt
that they were in distress, and that any legislative enactment
would remove that distress, the farmers, if they came before
that House, and spoke by petition or through the voice of their
representatives, ought to be charged with whining. He laid a
stress on this, because 'he knew well how eagerly every word
uttered in that House by the Government was watched, and
because he was anxious to do away the effect of an expression
which seemed something like unkindness or inconsistency
towards them. The Noble Lord the Member of Sunderland
had referred to the duties on wool, cattle and flax, and had in-
stanced these as three cases in which the repeal of the
protective duty might be considered as advantageous. He
could not but think that if the Noble Lord had permitted him-
self to consider for a moment, be would have found that no
three articles could have been more injudiciously chosen. The
Noble Lord, skilful as he was in other things, would not be
considered as a practical grazier, if he thought that the effect of
the tariff, wish respect to the importation of cattle, would realise
what was expected from it at the end of three years. With
respect to the duty on flex, the repeal applied not to flax that
had been grown, but to that which was yet to grow ; and whe-
ther flax could be grown at all without a protective duty re-
mained to be proved. He had spoken with!, farmer on this point,
and he had said, " If they could get a protective duty on flax, lie
believed they could grow it very well in England."—(Hear, and
laughter.) The Noble Lord had argued that flax had been
grown without a protective duty, but he denied that to any ex-
tent this had been the ease. Flax war not grown in England.
—(" Ireland," from several Hon. Members on the Opposition
benches.) He was aware of that fact, but the Noble Lord WPS
not speaking of Ireland, and whether flax could be grown in
England without a protective duty was an experiment that yet
remained to be tried. The Noble Lord alluded also to wool—
he should recollect that when the repeal of the wool duty was
proposed the agricultural interest did not oppose it ; and he,
therefore, might give them fair credit for sense degree of wis-
dom when they opposed the reduction of the duty on corn. It
showed that they c:itild discriminate—that they were able to
judge which duties might be repealed and which might not.
They were not misled and blinded by, any theory to declare
that every kind of restriction was mischievous, nor did . they
from the other extreme wish to retain every protective duty in
operation. They applied their minds to the question of re-
' striction and that of the removal of restriction, and they might
claim egad merit for that which they bad the wisdom to refuse
and that which they had the wisdom to retain. He was sorry

that the Government had chosen to refuse this Committee. he could suggest produce any effect in bringing the same rate
He was returned to that House to support the of wages paid in British ships to that paid in foreign ships, Mr.
system of protection. He was returned on protection Hume said it would •be impossible to say, because there was a
principles„ and from those protectiveeprinciplea he was not great. variety of foreign ships, and a great variety of rates of
aware that he had ever swerved.—( Hear, hear.) He had wages, and a great difference as to the quality of food in foreign
been too long in that House to commit himself blindly by any ship;, but that the price of provisions in the ships
pledge against hose changes which must occur in the "re- must be cheaper, and the wages less. He hoped this juste
volution of ages," as his Right Hon. Friend the Member for ?erne/1 Government would take notice of these remarks of Mr.
Newark had stated. But, as far as be could judge, he saw no Hume. Wages were the very marrow of the whole question,
rwaeon to shrink from the advocacy of these principles, and and the Government should give Mr.-Hun:en evidence their
because he believed them to be true, therefore he believed most serious consideration. He knew he ought to sit down.
they would bear inquiry.—( Cheers.) He was not going to —( Laughter.) Nothing could give him more pleasure than
say that in that House it was prudent to grant every inquiry to know that he would never be called upon to open his lips
that every man might p• opose, at his own time, on his own again.—( Renewed laughter.) It had been his fate, and it
terms, end for his own purpose ; hut he did say, that when was still his fate, that currency should be the great stumbling-
they had heard the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of block between him and the Right Hun. Baronet at the head
State for the lime Department get up and introduce his of the Gove.nm nt, and be verily believed that cerrenry had
Bill on the law of settlement, and tell them that one person more to do with the question than anything else. He world
out of every ten was receiving parish relief—when, in addition give a decided negative to the motion of the Hon. Gentle-
to this, he was able to bring forward statements from the whole min. The farmers, from top to bottom, would be thrown
country of the extent of agricultural distress—it seemed to into despair—( Hear, hear)—and it would entirely unsettle
him that the time had come when there should be this inquiry, men's minds on a sulject already the cause of so much dissen-
It might be said, that the questions to be eroposed to these siort and excitement.
farmers would be beyond their understanding. It was ex- Mr. WILLIAMS said the Hon. Member who had just sat
tremely common to say that questions were beyond the under- down began by reflecting upon the speech of the Noble Lord
standing of common men, but, unfortunately, they were not the Member for Sunderland, and said it was characteristic of
beyond their misunderstanding.—( Hear, hear.) They were the days of Cromwell. Without saying whether he would
frequently misunderstood, with danger to themselves and to agree with him, he would observe what he considered the Hon.
the country. He did hope that the Government, before this Member's speech was characteristic of—the present day and
discussion closed, as they were to have no Committee no other.—( Laughter. ) The speech was characteristic of the
and no inquiry, would do him the justice of class to which the lion. Member belonged. If the Hon.
saying that he had not shrunk from bringing Member would excuse him from expressing his opinions
forward the cause which he believed to be that of the agricul- freely, he would say. that be represented the decline and decay
turist, ; he hoped they would be able, and he saw the Hon. of his class. The lion. Member for Norfolk must not be
Member for Manchester opposite, to give them some intima- offended with the remark that he was about to make.
tion that they had taken steps towards the furtherance of a Mr. WODEHOUSE—Not a bit.—(Laughter )
matter which was brought forward last session—he meant the Ms. VILLIERS—The Hon. Member said he bad exagge-
obtaining of more exact statistic knowledge with respect to rated and misrepre'ented in some former speeches, and !mimed-
the agriculture of this country. He did not wish to re-estal:- verted to a speech made by him in which he stated that in
lish the beard under Sir John Sinclair, but he did wish the 1797 the agricultural classes were depressed. He presumed
Government would announce that they had taken the matter in that assertion still, although the Hon. Member for Norfolk
into their serious consideration. The Right llon. Member said that at that time they were very well off.
for North Wiltshire, and he believed the Hon. Member for Mr. WODEHOUSE—I did not say any such thing ?
the West Riding, had been pleased to be very mirthful Mr. VILLIERS said he understood the Hon. Member to
on seeing the Hon. Member for Stockport conferring with
say they were very ill off. That was the year when country
him ( Mr. S. O'Brien); he said it put him in mind of the
Gentlemen tested the scheme of snaking other people pay the
ententerordiale which the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of wages of the agticultural labourers. He would now main
the Government supposed to exist, when he (Mr. S. O'Brien) state that there was no period when the price of food was high
pledged himself to move for this Committee. This mirth that the labouring classes were not seriously distressed.
might be again excited, re w that he again appealed for that Mr. WODIeIIOUSE-1822.
Committee. But he thought from whatever side or party a Mr. VILLIERS—It was precisely in that year that a
motion was made favourable to agriculture, no distinction of Noble Lord, in the other House of Parliament, spoke of the
political opinions should induce him to withhold his support distress of the labouring classes in the agricultural districts.
from it, and let him tell the Government it was not the union The statement of the lion. Member for Stockport was clear,
of any individual Members on either side of the House, but it full, forcible, and lucid, but how was it answered ? He stated
was that while the benches of the House were distinguished, what the condition of these districts was, he desired investiga.
and the two sides preserved, the political principles of lion, and challenged contradiction—he called upon the farmers'
one side were carried into effect by the legislation friends, but they did not adduce a single argument against
of the other. The Hon. Member for Stockport had alluded in what he stated. The Secretary at War affected to treat the
an eloquent manner to the aristocracy of this country. The question wi h great indifference, but he could assure him that
aristocracy hail ever stood by the people, and, he believed, would it was one in which the people of this country felt the
stand by them still. While they were determined to maintain deepest interest, and he bitterly complained of the modes,
an agricultural peasantry—while they thought that the great in which the Legislature had treated the subject. He really
merit of agriculture over manufactures was that if any evils thought that the Right Honourable Gentleman had treated
arose in connexion with agriculture they could be brought home the House with indifference, if not with neglect and contempt.
and traced—he was certain they:would belie the history of the Could the Right Hon. Gentleman deny that Protective So-
past and their experience of the present—they would belie all cieties were in active operation is all parts of the country, ex-
they had read, and all they had seen of them, if they refused, at pressing their opinion on the agricultural depression and distress?
any time, however large might be the majorities in that House, Was not that an evidence of general distress? He (Mr. Villiers)
or the preponderance of interest, to take into their serious and thought that this was evidence of great importance, and a proof
anxious consideration the great question of the food of the people. that the distress which existed was both general and greaten-id
Mr. BRIGHT said if he had any doubts of the propriety of he thought that it supplied a sufficient reason for inquiry. Yet
voting for the present motion, they would have been dispelled it was said that committees were of no use, and he thought that
by . the speech of the Hon. Gentleman who hail just sat down. the Hon. Member for Wiltshire ( %Ir. Sidney Herbert) had
Ile had never heard a speech from an agricultural Member so treated the House with disrespect, for he had asserted that if
clear and explicit, or so easy tobe understood.—( Hear.) It was they would tell him who sat upon the Committee, he would
a speech entirely to the question, and contained a large number easily draw up the report. What was the inference to be drawn
of statements from several of the counties of England, of the from this? Why, that Committees were of no use. Now, he
amount of agricultural distress. But at the same time it con- would defend the House before the country from the assertions
tained many paragraphs of a see-saw character, as if the Hon. of a Member—from the assertions of a Cabinet Minister, and
Gentleman was vibrating between his HOTis Friend the Mem- he would venture to tell that Right Hon. Gentlemanthat Com-
ber fur Stockport and the Secretary at War. At the present mittees had been of the utmost. use. He would venture to as-
moment he could scarcely tell whether the Hon. Gentleman sert that no great measure had been brought before that House
intended to vote for the motion or not. He had, however, cer- without a previous inquiry.—( Hear, hear ) The Municipal
tainly done himself more credit on this occasion than he did last Law, the Poor Law, the Reform Act—all the great
year, when he occupied two entire hours in reading extracts measures had been preceded by inquiry—(Cheers)—and he
from the speeches of gentlemen connected with the La ague, really thought that in making that assertion the Right Hon.
which were not much to the point. He had spoken out boldly ;he Gentleman had treated the House with great contempt. He
had told the Minister that there was some remnant of indeperid- (Mr. Villiers) was of opinion, that his Hon. Friend had
ence about them. He could not see how they could refuse this chosen a very opportune period for bringing forward his
committee, having granted committees of inquiry into the motion, and that it was entitled to deference and great con-
game-laws, and even into dog-stealing. The speech of the sideration from the House. He could not for his own part un-
Right Hon. Secretary at• War was the usual stereotypedofficiel derstand on what principle the Government granted or re-
answer which was always made to every demand for an inquiry, fused these Committees. They had granted a Committee on
When the Right H. se Gentleman (Mr. S. Herbert) was the game-laws the other night ; they had not refused inquiry
making his speech at Salisbury, near his own. residence, there to the shipowners last year, and why not then grant a Com-
were able-bodied labourers who were picking atones from mittee asked for by nis Hon. Friend. The motion stood pre-
fields at the rate of Bd. a day. The farmers were in a state of cisely on the same footing, and was equally entitled to inquiry
the utmost dismay at the ravages which were being committed as the motions to which he has referred.—( Hear, hear. )
by game on their farms. Did the Right Hon. Gentleman A meeting hnd beers held the. other day at Warwick,
give leases? He might or might not, bat he (Mr. Bright) where the Earl of Dartmouth was in the chair, at which
very much suspected that he did not, and from the state in speeches were made and resolutions passed declaratory of the
which the Right Hose Gentleman's estate was at present, conviction of those assembled. That the measures of the pre-
he (Mr. Bright) was quire sure that the Right Hon. Gentle- sent Government went neither more nor less than to confiscate
man could not do without every high degree of protection. No property. —( Hear, hear.) They said, that their measures
doubt this Committee would be refused in consequence of the would confiscate property. The Earl of Dartmouth said so,
prejudice which existed in favour of thecorn-laws, This prejudice the meeting said so, the resolutions said so : and he thought
he believed was founded in mistake. The agricultural was that it was a very great shame that those assertions and resolu-
not the most prosperous class. There was not another class teens should go uncentradicted. Let them grant this inquiry,
from whom protection had been withdrawn that was not more and they might summon the whole of these parties before the
prosperous than the cultivators of the soil, and more prosperous Committee, at el make them state the grounds on which they
than before protection was withdraw.—(" No," emphatically made these assertions.—( Hear, hear.) It should be recol-
from Col. Sibthorp.) Let them take the case of the iron lected that this meeting was attended by a great number
trade. At one time that trade was very highly protected, and of country gentlemen, and that they would go home and
when the Government proposed to abolish that protection the diffuse these opinions.—(Hear, hear.) Now, it should be
iron masters were as much' opposed to its removal as recollected that the opinion of these Lords and Squires
the landlords were with respect to the corn-laws.—( Hear.) was accounted as gospel much more than that which
They stated that if the protection were removed, they would not the clergyman preached.—( Hear, and great laughter.)
be able to export any more iron, and they would be inundated Now, he did not believe these assertions, but yet they had
is this country by foreign iron. Now what bad been the fact ? cause of complaint. They complained that wheat was very
Why, instead of the exportation of English iron diminishing, low, and he did not believe all these assertions of the conce-
it had increased ten or twenty fold. The iron-masters had quenee of the low price of wheat.—(Laughter.) But he found
now almost a natural monopoly in the supply of iron through- that. that there was another meeting held at Stafford three
out the world. Let them take the case of the days ago, in which the speeches of those who attended the
silk-trade. The increase in that trade since the meeting, and especially of the Secretary of the Society, charged
trade had been thrown open, had been more than the Right Hon. Baronet with all sorts of defalcation of prin-
teo millions of pounds in ten years. There could be no ciple.—( Hear, hear.) Now he really thought that all this was
doubt that the abolition of restrictions with respect to agri- calculated to edo a great deal of injury to the country.— ( Great
culture would be attended by a large increase in consumption. laughter.) And he was very sorry for it—(Laughter)—and
—(" No, no," from Colonel Sibthorp.) The case of wool he thought it ought to be removed. The lion. Member for
had that night been alluded to, and he need not advert Northampton had adopted a curious ?}lease. He said that the
to it further. With respect to the linen trade, the Hon. agricultural mind was much agitated.—(Great laughter.) This
Member fur Dundee would bear his testtmony to the fact that was a new phrase, but perhaps it was understood by the Hoe.
the opening of the trade had largely increased it. The protec- Gentleman who used it, as he was the librarian or secretary,
tionists bad first come to that House blustering, but now or something of a literary capacity of the Central Protection
they came in a more supplicating manner and asked that pro- Society—he could not say what, but that was no matter. But he
tection might be continued. They came down to the arena thought that the best method of soothing the agricultural
before the public, but they did not come forward fairly to the mind was to accede to the request of His Honourable Friend.
fight. Why did they not cense and have a fair tight in the It was upon these grounds that he should most cordially support
committee-room? Witnesses''on each elite could there be pro- the motion.
duccd. Those who asked for 'this Committee were not party- Mr. G. BANKES said, at that late hour of the night, he did
men. Why, if it had not been for a few of them, those on the not intend to occupy the attention of the House for more than
other (the Ministerial) side of the House might have been a very few minutes. lie should confine himself entirely to the
put to great risk and expense by another election last year. question that was really before the House, the question being
They must recollect the shout, he would rot say of approba • whether or not they should have a Committee to consider the
tion, but something like execration, with which some Members distress, and causes of the distress prevailing in the agricul-
of that (the Opposition) side were hailed when they came in tural districts, because they had been informed by the Hon.
from the lobby. They had never been party men in the coon- Member who last addressed them that the motion which he
try. If they got upon this Committee honest free traders and annually brought before the House would not be denied them,
honest protectionists, without having any mere politician, they whether they had the Committee or whether they had it not.
might fairly settle this question. 'the farmers would be greatly They knew, too, that another motion stood for to-morrow on
disappointed if the Gentlemen opposite did not vote for this the subject of agricultural distress, and, at no el•stant day, he
Committee. He did not allude to the Treasui y bench, because hoped to brine in a measure to remove such local taxation as
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Thoseswe
Gentlemen were thtelee men had, politicians of whom he had spoken. The farmers pressed upon farmers. He should, therefore, have ample op-
hadetGentlemen opposite to guard their interests. portunity for discussing the general principle which attached
however, allowed the Right Hon. Ba- to the question of agricultural pretection, and this induced
renet to pass measures which were not wise. 'Their tenants him to coefine himself to the question immediately before the
told them that those measures were not wise. At their House. For his own part, when the suggestion was first
meetings they told their tenants that those measures made by the lion. Member for Stockport, he met it with a
were not wise. The Gentlemen opposite had come most unhesitating den:al, and had his lion. Friend the
to that House as the farmer's friend, and yet they refused to Member for Northampton made the same suggestion
go into the examination of this question. Now, this was too he should have met it in the same manner. He must
bad. There were those on the opposite side of the House beg to offer to the Hon. Member for Stockport his ex-
who had not scrupled to leave their party for their principles. pression of gratitude for the candour with which he had
They. on the Ministerial side, had not yet left their party for made his proposal, but certainly the agricultural in-
their principles. Some fifty years ago, he no* spoke from what terest could not enter with any satisfaction upon an
he had read in history, the country gentlemen, as they were inquiry in a Committee which was proposed by the Hon.
called, were very important Members of that House. They Member for Stockport. But he could not see -the advantage
frequently read of some of these country Gentlemen of great of withdrawing a discussion from that House into the more
weight having got up to propose certain resolutions for or limited arena of a Select Committee, and leaving to be con-
against the Goveinment. Nobody expected flashes of oratory sidered by fifteen Members what well deserved the delibera-
or flashes of wit, but everybody expected common sense and tion of the whole House. The existence of the distress was
honesty of purpose. Their independence was confessed by all, denied by no one. What then was the use of a Committee?
and their influence was felt by all. That party had now The cause of that distress, he ventured to think, arose out of
fallen into decrepitude and decay. ow, he was not their having departed from the principles of protection. As far
an enemy to the country gentlemen. Although he had as he was himself concerned he had no desire for
spoken severely of them, they certainly had had satisfaction this Committee, because he had no doubt about either the
out of him. He had said nothing harsh of them that they had existence of the (listless or the cause of it. Then with regard
not replied to over and over again. It had been said of Charles to the remedy, it was quite clear they could come to no ami-
the First that he could see if he would, and of James that he cable conclusion in a Committee. The members of the Anti-
would see if he could. If Gentlemen opposite could see pro- Corn-law League admitted that they owed no allegiance to the
tection as he (Mr. Bright) did—(Laughter)—he meant soil of England. They could carry their wealth to foreign
with respect to the national good, and not as respected private climates and still be in the same favourable circumstances, but
interest—they would not continue this law against millions of landed proprietors could not do this. They were forced to
their countrymen who were crying out. He thought the remain on the soil of England. He had listened with great
Right Hon, Baronet exercised a little too much influence in attention to the speech of the Honourable Mem-
turning Hon. Gentlemen opposite. Those Hon. Gentlemen her for Stockport, and he could not but observe
displayed a great deal of courage at the Freemasons' Tavern, that there was a remarkable omission, and the same omission oc-
and when they met their agricultural constituents they really curred in the speech of the Noble Lord the Member for Sun-
spoke most valiantly. But they did aot do so when in thatillouse. derland. They had omitted to say what they were to do with
The influence of the Right Hon. Gentleman put him in mind the surplus population of the country. This was a question
of the manner in which the Ii isthmian tamed his horse. Did those which lion. 51embers who advocated free trade always avoided.
Hon. Gentlemen recollect for what they were elected in If we imported the quantity of corn that could be, and (if the
1841 ? It was to keep up the price of wheat. Wheat was protection were removed) would be sent from countries
then 70s. a quarter. Would the farmers have supported them where it was cheaper grown than here, and where it was of a
then, if they had declared that they intended to support a superior quality, it was quite clear that a great portion of the
measure which would bring wheat down to 45.—(Hear.) land must be withdrawn from cultivation to a vast extent.
But really this subject was too serious for joking. A Corn- ( Ilear, hear.) No contradiction could be given to that by any
mission was going about the counties of Dorsetshire, Wilt- Committee, sit as long as it might.—(Hear.) But with the
shire, and Hampshire, and from that Commission a report enormous weight of committee business that pressed upon the
had lately' been made. From this report it app eared that the House—upwards of two hundred railway comwittees—e Hear)
agricultural labourer expended about 30s. a year in articles —and the Game Committee, on which he had the honour to
of manufacture, and that included making. Now the be associated with the Hon. Member of Durham, he was sails-
manufacturing population were increasing, and the fled that they might for this year at least dispense with the
agricultural population were increasing.—( Hear, hear.) Committee. lie did not say that there should not be a Com-
He had snoken to the Representatives of agricultural districts, mittee upon the subject. Neither did he think that the House
on the other side of the House, and he would ask them, why of Commons was the fittest place for such an iquiry. At the
should they not concede to this proposition ? ( Hear, hear.) same time he admitted that when there was a question of doubt
He would say to them, "Now, do be advised by the course and difficulty, inquiry by Committee was desirable._
we suggest.' —(Laughter.) It had beets said that they, at ( Hear, hear.) In this case there was no doubt
his side of the House, knew very well what it was already— or difficulty—( Hear, heat)—and he did not see a neces-
perhaps they did—( A laugh)—but there might happen to be sity for a Committee.—( Hear.) lie did not believe that any
a few who did not,----(A laugh)—and, in the meantime, who information could be obtained beyond what they had at present.
could toll but that the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her There was another objection to the motion. There had been
MajestyWi Government., would come forward with some new no petition for inquiry, although the Hon. Gentleman the
proposition on free-trade.—( Hear, and a laugh.) But now to Member fair South Staffordshire had presented a petition corn-
put an end to this joking, he would ask the House to take plaining of the presenteslidin,g scale as affording inadequate pro-
into consideration the state of the tenant population of the tection.—(Hear ) With all possible respect for the Member
country.—( Hear, hear.) He did not speak of them or their for Stockrort, who moved for the Committee with so much
condition in any feeling of anger towards the Government; ability, he should give the motion a decided negative.
but this he would say, that when it had been well known Lord INGESTRIE said that the Noble Lord who presides!
throughout the world that this subject would be brought for- at the meeting at Wolverhampton, referred to by the Hon.
ward before the Legislature, he felt fully justified in making the Gentleman opposite (Colonel Anson), was not Lord Lieutenant
few observations he had.—( Cheers.) of any county. The petition from that meeting only complained
'
Mr. WODEHOUSw said be did not rise for the purpose of •f the present sliding scale as not affording adequate protection.,
making any reply to the comical parts of the speech of the lion. Colonel ANSON rose amidst loud cries of " Question,'
Gentleman who had just sat down—(A laugh)—but at the and sohd he would not detain the House five minutes.
same time he should say that his mind had been lie wished to explain an error into welich he had fallen. He
made up on the vote he should give on this had received three petitions to present, complaining of inade-
question.—( Laughter.) He had heard of the speech (mete protection— one from Wolverhampton, another from
made by the Noble Lord the Hon. Member for Sunderland, Lichfield, and the third from Stafford. 'I he resolutions agreed
and that allusion had been made to it by the lion. Member to at the meeting of the Agricultural Protection Society at
opposite; buthe (Mr. Wodehouse) would say, that that speech Wolverhampton was sent to him with the petitions, and it was
was worthy of the days of Cromwell.— (Laughter.) Strong by a too hasty reading of the resolutions he had fallen into the
remarks had been made on the state of the law in respect to mistake that the petition was against the sliding-scale.
corn in former times; but he would ask Hon. Members to re- The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to read the petition in
collect the state of the country at that time.—( Hear, hear.) which the petitioners stated that the distress of the tenant-
In a speech of the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton, on farmers required the consideration of Parliament.—(Cries of
this subject, it had been stated that when prices were low, "Divide; divide.") He was the representative of an important
agricultural property was at its height ; yet in the years 1835 county, and he felt bound to refer'to those petitions which had
and 1836 such was not the case.---( Hear, hear.) 'Then again, been placed in his hands.—(Hear, hear.) He did not vote for
the Noble Lord had said, that in the years 1810 and 1818, the an immediate repeal of the corn-laws, but he thought that a
same argument applied, but there was no competent record fixed duty would give confidence to the agricultural interest,
of the kind that could be referred to. As to what had been said and be had supported his Noble Friend behind bias
about the state of the law in 1835, in reference to this subject, in Isis view) upon that subject. He did not aperove of agri-
in that year a gentleman, named Mr. Senior, published a cultural s wietiee, for he thought they did more hares than
pamphlet, in which that gentleman had shown clearly that the good.—( Hear, hear.) Ho thought that a more steady price
wages then paid were less in proportion to the receipt of the would be maintained by a fixed duty than under the present
farmer.--(tlear. hear.) Then, with retard to what had been system. He would support the motion of the Hon. Member
said by Mr. Deacon Hume, he would but say this—when Mr. for Stockport, because he did not think the agricultural inte-
Flume was asked by Mr. Chapman (it having beets said that rest need be in any fear from inquiry.
there was a great article of expenditure in the navigation of I Lord WORSLEY rose amid loud cries of " Divide,
ships) could he make any suggestion whereby this onerous divide." Ile said lie would not detain the House for
charge might be reduced—ho was asked would any remedy any length of time, but be thought he ought