The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-01 00:00:00

he - •
Pro7oseu measure of which, as a whole, he approved. As
of himself, he bad no objection to a fixed duty--( Hear, hear)
highe
•-provrthided it were sufficiently high, but it ought to be much
an the one proposed by the Noble Lord. Ile hoped
the G
osernment would take into their considetation the parti-
tTeirr circumstances of the case as regarded Ireland, and shape
t
th accnidingly. He fel a difficuly in voting o
eft: etion before the House, becatoet he did not. understand then
iTaras(tiricilid'ati:ed ttioleolGt
,„„:1 it might produce.-.( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) If it
oats,
to re-consitter the question as
beshould not hesitate to vots for it. tinder
the present ei " hk • how he should vote
on reurnstances, scarcely C%‘
'lll.lll,
air. •
mot. CHRISTPH Ell said. if he thought that by voting for
hears !seri 'hey should arrive at any practical restilt-( Hear,
of i'--(1" there was any ultimate or reasonable prospect
in" na:eing the Goveinment to increase the protect-
brert dot
on barley, and the kinds of grain that had
the tif mentioned, he would support the rnot. withl
t
had most satisfaction, for he concurred entirely with w
posH"en said as to the inadequate protection which the pro-
!ism le
totwd afford to the barley grower. But the prac •
auppeituties'en conid was, how was it possible for. them by
tha, ng the measure of his Hon. Friend, to give thers
riirse-os'etPlihrtn,::ititr,(i'vetaitini,onnaahicali they considered absolutely. necessary. ll'
the ~,nt it would bear heavy on the grower of beans, and
cir
of the strong clay soils. From the
h the °I
hew state the market of oats and barley, and
a,.
enterinis so greatly into the general
sa,..oalnPtion not
of the peaple, he thought there was not
the ,airssing• necessity fur altering the duty as for altering
otetliftlei4i oailn..Yer.File:.nohtueitai•
place'l f h:
htihgobucgrhptrothcoatmi:lttioorni nt-hoeuset
articlesiricuc
support it, but II! did not sec how they
diri,n-rive at any practical conclusion by proceeding to a
ether' s 'she sooner this question was
s.ettlad, one war or
andtaint* better it would be for the convenience of the House
Ati'.lo satisfaction of the country.
had sn AW said that the part of the scale referring to oats
iwp ceeasioned 'great excitement in Ireland, and the general
Protection that prevailed was, that it did no'. give a sofficient
ear,a'"on to agriculture. It was his desire to allay that ex-
it, tti:Ts"t, and without going into any eetail of figures,
the
(ha, Intl them on more than a single point, he would beg
Ittiaeamtrorstotieeniti,zar as their plan went, to give some informa-
If he was rightly informed, the Govern-
eiat„ a'Eumed that 225. was a sufficient price to protect agri-
ho brlille would not give any opinion upon that point., btu
tild on the whole, that if it did afford protection it
r)sitffiei?eP rather a .seanty ne. Assuming that 225. would be
)
the G, M protection to oats, he wished to ask the attention of
lt,t,sernment to the fact that foreign oats might be sold at
ave' his NO. Friend could convince him that that was the
g stlr,„', price of for..ign oats, then he ahoul,i say that that was
isro'eient protection to agriculture. If he had been rightly
d %%flied oats might be obtained from Sweden at 9s.
'tarter, and 2s 6d eight. 'I his was not a time to
11011," experim.ent on 'the staple trade of the country.
etoi,',"`l'a earn-
er ble Gentlemen opposite would recollect that o7,:e as the only source of employment fur a grat mass
ate) 0. o
Population. They w
e engaged in agriculture,
a!nlie, and it had been found more advantageous to
thae„ejfats than any Other grain. If, therefore, any serious
lalseit' was made in the trade between this cots try and Ired-
hib.'t Ras made
croail a most serious evil. He therefore
ihope
Proar,"lot iron. Friend would" reconsider this subject ieto..re
it it s;'lng his scale. Ho knew that it would be in vain to resist
it., it were prop;sed.-( Cries from the Opposition of ".Try
`iaanghler.) Certainly, if a fair divi,ion was insisted
bight Il should vate for tint which was suggested by hish
Frierid, but, he could have hoped to have seen the
"atal higher; lint he should leave the proposition t e
the Government, and he should give them his last
upopt.
111:iierhi)* ROCHE made sine observation across the table,
it,h was inaudible in the gallery.
C• HULLER said that he had heard of a fairy tale, in
sorts o.
es:::;! a fair) was continually occupied in making all f
skosas""nta• 03c of the greatest difficulties she had to sur
'l5 hseparate barley from oats, which she could on
had 5' the aid of a magician. He (Mr. Buller) wished they
kr Norte Magician there.-(Laughter.) The Hon. Membert
llisaXn'ik seemed to be of opinion, that the best way of se -
8e4""" aitestion was to stop the business of the House alto-
ken to and report progress. In order to enable Hon. Gentle •
Nokreolleet their ideas on the subject. Hhell.Bid.)
,know how long that might take, but believe it
(Csaaa'alse a considerable portion of the time of the House.-
*taw laughter. ) And he, therefore, hoped such a step
fare allot be adopted. with respect to the question then e••
than Hauge he (Mr Buller) could take no other course
1,1:01-'t of ,gong with.the Right Hon. Baronet. In the first
Place' 11,was useless putting the same question. In the second
Mal 'a tne Hell. Member for Not-folk should devise some
'ups, 7P°, n Which he can act, and provide against the in.
las •a,2,10 forms of the house. The Honourable Mem-
ailil, tnalshed to increase the amount of duty upon oats,
aerefore, he had not courage to say s, No," to the propo-
,ke Rialit Hon. Baronet, and vet, at the same time,
enl'course' was to go on witti the scale proposed by.
liressiir,st Lord} of the Treasury. What was the use of ex-
/ta their opinion, unless they supported them with a vo!e.
, ne,% hear, and- cheers.)-
The lion. Gentleman said it
potlicioh..se trying his nuition, and yet he was averse to say he
ethulat-''t try it.-( Laughter, and cheers. ) Why did he not
the If e that Noble Lord, so much admired on the other side of
.aeift a t°n.se,s and who asked if there was ever anything got with-
noe.aintiV ":1 Let them take the noble example of the Du, ke of
Air 11"nas---" Pluck up your courage, man, and do it.
tieIas"YODETIOUSE said his answer to the Hon. Gen-
''Anc,74,,iinPia was, that be wished. the. Government. to give
aiatitg pression of their future intention with respect to the
he ~‘1,..e.n hf forei n oats He received that expression, and
(11e-V;;.'not *do mgore than thank his Hon. Friend. Now he
"odeliouse) 'would go one step further, and state that,
h !Pinion the present system of was inadequate,n
it protection
beahllitted it to be 'a
fair subject of national rec.
t. c
Citenn'; I not think that, because it was necessary undu.
heat,
tb:lalitees of the country to raise a revenue. upon !ase
re ue
there was a corresponding necessity to rat ..
",f ren all other sorts of rain. Admitting the weaknas
-,ea'senne, yet every man knew that the agricultural in-
,alllr ‘as.'"."',. subjoin, of iaramount importance.
I'AIALFII Ihe would not be cried down by
,
„ " in 5„i;....n on t los oppos....ite sules who took up this ques-
t-kindore tl,.- Ala asmanner. By the-forins of the I louse, he
he N''„` t'icY could not propose a higher duty then ; there•
air• lilVat it better not to press the motion.
thous so alai,' WI',LL was understood to say, that there
''Amoliss it eofftlict statements made to the Houe, t he
'e th •41(1 be Cater for the Right. Hon. Isaronet to e scale. •
wohl C, DSTONE said, he • thought at that, late hour
ti,t,
hart till °titter for the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Vtodelio,ruel)arly
efirt ~, the question of oats was brought forwardrt„
Zle Commiltee when the question was fully discussed.
„ o'Bit lEN ;aid he thoug,ht it would witht to do od.
Las. of Mr. Wadi:house was then. drawn, ap
11°r-ganial resolution was put from the
.Chair and. passed.dade
'0 th •tfIIRIEN, who was for a consderable time.rna
able' Gallery was understood to say hest ought it was
en`l to Perceive tbat the scale proposed weuld einc.ouiahgc
4isrt `;''re the foreigner. Foreign oats could be so.d t
tcltear at a profit when the price was at `2os. and the duty 63.;
is
in the western parts of Ireland the price would
"ad „ t Y
°act exceed 7d. or 7%d. a stone. The price
4,,01ver exceeded 10d.. or Is. under the present law. To
tyttl, ,flat this•was not an exaggerated statement ho would
a return he held in lii`s hand, and he found that ni
that' hen the average price was, a that not less
° 626 °7O
quarters were admitted at 6s. duty. In 1839 he
Lay°ail •s.
o less than 855,000 quarters were introduced at a
uca ift(;'• nd., being hioher than that proposed by the Right
; this -qua'iitity of 855. ,000 quarters received in
; • a hreater than that received by the whole of Eurape.
"ie last year not ICSA than 841,000 quarters were sent
I'tel-°,n,don alone In conclusion, he thought that the scale
•"iadit Hon. Gentleman Would afford quite sufficient t,etillon to Irelat.id• •
kll°cliE said he felt that the constituency he repro
N•
,deeply
t. e suffer by the resolutions proposed by the
Wti i fed
II
one hoped the Right Hon. Baronet
Ireland ider the subject, as it was one of vital importance
▪ • p,,.ons
,
to of 4,a fESUN congratulated Hon. Gentlemen on. that
taalhei me
for the number of converts they had gam
apt. ""e''nons of the necessity of protection to the agrocul-
fst,,,feth„,l!•ould assure the House that there was a very gene-
'cr- o to Ireland, amongit landlords, land-owners, and
b,'' thlt '
a:4 Nei if the protection was not increased, there would
, protection to the grower in Ireland as would enable
111"nPete with ti foreign grower. This, he could as-
.
at,,uped arcs the general fee;ing. in Ireland, andi
sial'frtaeti tsentleinen opposite would, if they rid
Pro' that they had been mistaken, consent to afford
11:Nn'etni for the sjiring corn as they did for whe. a.t.
1;"et ;'''>-1'11:11.12.Y believed the scale of the Right Hog.
Alad theletH be collie satisfacturx to the constituency which
11p.r;nalur repreaent.
"t) -INGToN 11 not but cangratulate the Right
oat, area,t roe
tat, , too Alenl6'r for Tamworth, for the number of
b'`e had• I • e •Minly sacs the most successful
at at), made , la c.l
anal there that
had caer been seen. Ile had converted many,
wa„ 'W" one nohlemao, great, powerful, and
pn`,iii -till oefractory,_ unconveriible.-(Laughter. )
.° understood Hon. Gentlemen opposite to
ssbatelt''a the reirosiicirt in the duty on oats and barley was p.ro :
'he
lass 4
aallwheat reduction on wheat, If that were the cw.
,dnty 565. the old duty being 30s. 8:1. arid the a
is 132.. the duty being 13s. pa..
kink „tar,;,:),,,1t. to be, not 61, isr.olio,...:".V...,b,yutith,e
would
i:ot 75. 21d. Ho (mi. tt,,
..$). The
ikitial42e w . then the difference %%mild be outs t
the 1,1"4-71ndll, but it was still a difference. lie further
"hotly`;dle ine, tett on the picot of the ..ale, ought to be ill
flit Ile should take the opinion of the House
114.31`8,a" ought not to be left out, and the
nitiehaCid.aiiiiituted in their place.
barley on the other,
-tl",'in'eett ,'3,ll'°NE said that in the propiyeil scale the re-
.,fty ,eat on the one side, rice and
"thN:r%ea:::tina,e-t:l,,sfliitirtaltessential. proportion;. It was true if
ht find a certain
aoate va... do arbitrary point, they . ,
from the just relation ; and here it, 14,,
Ivltttt:'B) vra6,rat"iing to mark the difference existing between
tif ditteravery swan. The divergency was very small, and
t, ht
,:pn• taekttetntea there was had arisen from the circumstance
'ernen not having taken the pains to uncle: stand
'nia 'hat "116" which the proposed scale was founded. It was
thouait'as riot. relation throughreit the scale between wheat and
at'ai taiiexactlY prescrved same. The Hon. Geode-
the `the."ll'y °ne end of the' scale, and had shown that
aitt-na eats was somewhat lower than the duty on
k3dst
nn,te (Mr. Gladstone) could take the other end of
:4'l\ 11.e;`, show that the dot y on oats was higher than the
Ka"' the ti;', 'loth Gentlemen had not objected to. taking
hat.- f ao„, 6"r for oats, which would correspond with the
lay I.*s, • for wheat •t.
Il b vtas the _ an'd. he (Mr. Gladstone.) mieht add;
etaern corresponding figure for barley ; bie7the r.O-
- eY1144 inata aad barley, to which was the highest rem-
°ads was'ad for a long time. In 1663, when wheat as as
la • % 275.
; 17'74 /Then whsat was 1003„ oats was
at v 18.22 481_5 oats rerna'ined at the same pr.ic.e.
hart prire ":as raised to 355. ; and in 1823 to 'WS.
IN.L, tit, for it was proposed to be continued. With regard
tr4t• last,.)l9llg period the price was taken a' half thas of
ssi,,aeir, a 1... a it was raised from fifty a hundred to fifty-
Isht.,tl te Mired, and at that they wished to keep it. He
otzihad' ,(ast. out to the Hon. Gentlemaa opposite the error
lttseatitunalnnuated itself into his calculation. Ile (the
05hat, t 5 beat, ,el'Posite) assume:l that the new duty on o its
tibOre
to t...nii_samo relation at 225. as the old duty on
ft ha, eat
whicha., but the old duty at 565. oft wheat
ever nos happened to fall on and
riile bi7n,h.!'en "Pon any cliculation what-
'D:4,, Taal, tis.......,lanstone) would suggest to the Ilon.
!iti„h
,),!!!-:.ell.hea3.liMed that 16s.was theaum which would
hea;l4lve ntnql when wheat was at sfis as to prevent any
data the sattraln competition, the duty on oats a t2a3. ought to
0,14,0 f sa",.e,proportion. He must, however, state that the old
the "ir, nus a ,"t}ascarlii„tle a. n accidental figure, which had been
4"tY hY .koin"
ation whatever. He woutd not trouble
bAielabneerdfqty 40..11
oats, anti
a(nitidtyi
jopwl
.1); er tint entire details with respect to the
hhaal pi epc exactly cones 'ended
theoea Anglesea added to the testimonfilltdl- that
hadthaeil.rleia7l;
e (Ni le protective duty
h ten sc fie as his c . y
ontutuency were concerned, they
upon barley very fair, and
net
debater• Gladst Ne t general 9n.e) easy convinced that if it were
3, his }pinion with reference to the measure pro.-
iVet belle°n"ue prolongedPri much lSli or tillgeorbertiti Peel, this
neaawl • eolle'deration was that:the charge of conveyance dea-
ths) duty erY 'much. upon
f the bula of the article, and, therefore,
aad charge of the conveyance afforded a distinct pro