The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-08 00:00:00

Whigs would now concede that which they never would con- !
cede before. 'this was the reason why he (Sir J. Tyrrell)
gave his vote in favour of the proposition, althought it might
seem to be in opposition to what was held- to be.his conscien-
tious conviction.—( Roars of laughter.) He admitted that a
universal panic had been raised among the agriculturists. But
the Right Hon. Baronet had got an unanswerable argument in
favour of the tariff. The Right Hon. Baronet had yesterday
presented a petition from Ireland, purporting to support the
proposed tariff. That petition was immediately seized upon by
Hon. Gentlemen opposite. He ( Sir J. Tyrrell) had read that
petition, and the last' two lines what was vulgarly
called the prayer of the petition—(Loud laughter)—was
to the effect that protection should be given to all
classes of the community. Now that was a principle
in which he (Sir John Tyrrell) entirely concurred.
With respect to the propositions of the Noble Lord opposite,
he must say that they on that side of the House (Ministe-
rial) were not to be duped by a fixed duty. They on that
(the Ministerial) side of the House, had been considsred as
dull as animals that browsed on thistles.—(Roars of laughter.)
They were certainly too dull for a fixed duty. "It is said in
the Last," continued the lion. Member, " that when you
cross the desert, they put a donkey in front."—( Laughter. )
They put a donkey in front.—( The laughter was here renewed
throughout the House.) They put a donkey in front (said the
lion. Member when the laughter had subsided, and again
the laughter was renewed.) It is no laughing matter, said the
Hon. Member.—(Shouts of laughter.) 'f hey put a donkey in
front—(the House again was convulsed with laughter)—to re-
gulate the pace. —( Roars of laughter.) Gentlemen on that
side of the House, and on the other who had been in India would
bear him out in his assertion.—(Sbouts of laughter.) Those
Gentlemen would confirm his view s.—(The House was again
convulsed with laughter.) He did not wish to compare the
Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to
a donkey ; but he must say, that his proposition for relieving
the financial difficulties or the country, were utterly un-
worthy of a great statesman. The observation he (Sir J.
Tyrrell) had made might excite some mirth, by the man-
ner in which he had endeavoured to state his sentiments,
still they were of a grave character.—( Great laughter.) He
could assure the Noble Lord that whenever he makes those
propositions which he has made this night, he will find that
those opinions do not gain ground in the country—on the
contrary, that he will find himself in a larger minority.
Mr. WARD said he did not kstow much about the practices
in the East or West- of putting certain animals in advance ;
but there was another subject which he did understand better,
and that was ithe consistency of the Hon. Baronet who had
just sat down. Now his Hon. Friend stated very clearly the
charges which had been brought against him and the Hon.
Members who sat upon the same side of the House as himself,
of gross inconsistency. In his (Mr. Ward's) opinion, they
had no principle whatever; he would go over the whole of the
hustings' speeches made by the Gentlemen opposite or elsewhere
and lie would not-find one speech acquiescing in those measures
which they were now prepared to support. Not one was pre-
pared to speak of the Corn-laws as now proposed ; every man
amongst them denounced the late Government as the bitterest
enemies of the agriculturists ; and now he had heard some of
the con tituents of his Hon. Friend who had just sat down, ssv
that they would much prefer the propositions of the Noble Lord,
with his Ss. duty, to the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet.—
( Hear.) The lion. Baronet told his- constituents at the time
of the election that he had no leaders; one Noble Duke, ex-
pecting a seat in the Cabinet, and not having obtained one, was
now good for nothing—that was the Duke of Buckingham;
that another Noble Duke had met. him in the lobby, and had
recommended this Bill to him, as it was better to be in the
frying-pan than in the fire. He himself, he said, was but an
humble individual; he did not put himself forward—net even
in the Eastern fashion—(Laughter and cheers)—Lut he said
that he accepted the measure, because he thought it one suited
to the exigency of the times, and one calculated for the people's
welfare In his (Mr. Ward's) opinion there never was a more
absurd measure than this brought before the public ; it was one
which ought to have been, and which might have been settled
long ago. Measures well calculated to settle the question
were brought forward some time ago, and they »ere rejected
for party purposes. They'had settles' nothing ; and they would
at no distant period find it a difficult matter to explain their
conduct in that House, when compared with their statements
out of doors.—( Hear, hear.) It was with some
pleasure, therefore, that he heard the justlication of
his Hon, Friend, but the Hon. Member did not succeed so well
in that House as he did in Chelmsford—he did not succeed so
well in throwing dust in their eyes as he did in those of the
people who held up their hands so unanimously in favour of the
Hon. Member. The fact was difficulties were raisel merely
for party purposes, and to obtain place. They had obtained
place, certainly, but at a a very considerable sacrifice of cha-
racter and consistency. Last year every monopolist joined
hand and hand; he could understand that they beat his party
by a large majority, but what did they do then ? Did they
carry out their principles? No; they stood by their leader,
and he f rgot bis pure principles. They had abandoned
their principles, and they should never recede. Their
leader had now stated as ' a man of honour, that he
would stand by the tariff; he had pledged hia,self to do so.
They must go on, or public opinion would desert them, and
they would have no principle to stand by ; such an abandon-
ment of principle bad never been heard of in the history of
party contests.—( Hear, hear.) He, for one, did not care whe-
ther he voted at all on the third reading of this Bill. He did
not care whether the poor clays and bad soils which were put
into cultivation by the hopes held out by bad laws, were to be
put out of cultivation, for some day or other they must go out
of cultivation. He did not care for that ; but he had no feel-
ing in favour of the Bill, because he did not believe it would do
any good, or permanently settle the question ; he hoped it
would let in a little more corn, at a more reasonable price; but
he was afraid that nothing of the kind would followthe measure.
Mr. DARBYsaid, when the Hon. Gentleman who had just
sat down said that Members on his side of the House had not
dealt consistently with their constituents, he begged to say
that the Hon. Member had not spoken the fact.—( Hear.) It
was impossible for any man to declare that he would support
measures that were to be brought forward when he did not
know what they were ; and he would beg to say that the ques-
tion had been put to him on the huit:ngs whether he would
vote for all the measures of the Right Hon. Baronet, and in
reply he stated that he would not.—( Hear.) Then with re-
gard to the question of the Corn-laws, he would beg to tell
the Hon. Gentleman opposite that if he wanted to look for
principle he would not leave his side of the House to go to the
other.—( Hear.) That side, which had first made this an
open question, then brought a measure forward last
year, and who, had they been in power certainly
serer would • have abandoned that measure.—Hear, hear.)
The course which he had taken, he had taken solely because
he believed it to be the best that could be proposed for the good
of the country ; and he could tell the Hon. Gentleman diet
there was a growing desire throughout the country that this
question should he settled; and if he were asked whether, if he
did not altogether approve of this question, he would vote for
it, he would say that he would do so to settle the question.—
(11, ar, hear.) Ile could tell them that a strong Government
was one that was required now, and none other would be of
any s rvice to the country. If the Noble Lord were to form a
Go`ernixient, who would he call to the Cabinet? Would ho call
the Noble Lord, the Member for Tiverton, who, when he went
down to the Cabinet, would say, that he came down with
the strong arm of power to sweep away the cobweb of
monopoly?—Hear, hear.) They might taunt him with
inconsistency on this question, but he would say that that Bill
would work well, and that the present was not an abandonment
of principle, for the Right Hon. Baronet had distinctly stated
that he would abide by the sliding scale, though he might con-
sider it necessary to make some alterations in the details. He
said that ; and if Government did not know what was to be
done, then it was their Awn fault.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord had not adhered to his principles ; and was it for Mem-
bers on that side of the House to taunt him with incon-
sistency ? Did the Noble Lord think that there was no
difference between an Bs. fixed duty and an Bs. duty with a
sliding scale? What then would become of the dreaded averages?
As far as he was concerned he would support the sliding scale.
But if the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman opposite was
m:-rely an abstract one, or merely to declare that nothing ought
to be done to keep up the.price of food, he would not have the
slightest objection, to vote with him. But the object of this
measure was not to raise the price of fond, but to benefit the
consumer without injuring the agriculturist---(Hear, hear)--
and he thoUght it was right that there should be a regulation
providing against the effects of severe years upon the price of
provisions, when all the increased cost to the consumers went
out of the pockets of a few farmers. He concluded by saying
that whatever measure he might support he should support on
principle, but he was not Ao learn that principle from the other
side.
Mr. WAKLEY said tint the sseecch of the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Darby) was a specimen of many that the House would
have, not only for the remainder of this Session, bet
in future Parlivrents. It was one of those which had already
indicated that there was a growing state of opinion out of
doors, which ceused a feeling of uneasiness on certain benches
in the House.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman said
that he would vote for the preposition of the Hon, Member
for Stockport,if it was merely an abstract one, but he would
not vote for it if it was intended to give it any practical effect.
( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir
J. Tyrrell) spoke of political consistency, and yet he said that
he was going to give a conscientious vote in opposition to his
conviction.—( A laugh.) He regretted the Right Hon.
Barnet (Sir R. Peel) was not in the House at the time, for
the speech was a most amusing one. If a vote against his
convictions was a conscientious one, then of course a vote in
accordance with his convictions would -be unconscientious.—
( Hear, and laughter ) The Hon. Baronet stated that
he badeonferred with his constituents, and he had triumphantly
vindicated himself from the accuse' ions brought against hire
of having deserted his principles. The Hon. Baronet it
seemed, had shown them that he hsd supported their interest
by putting a high duty upon the importation of calves.--(A
laugh.) The Hon. Baronet and his party spoke. of the neces-
sity for protecting those who had embarked their capital ie
bringing inferior soils into cultivation, upon which agricul-
tural produce could not be raised in competition with the fer-
tile countries of other parts of the world. If the manufacturers
of this country came forward ant said, that in consequence of
the inferiority of their machinery they could not compete
with foreigners, and asked the House for a protection, would
the lion. Baronet grant it to them? Certainly not. Much
had been said of the cruelty of the manufacturers and millowners,
but what was the conduct of the landowners in the present
state of things? They declared in that House that the
farmers and labourers would be the sufferers. Now, did they
come forward and say to their tenants and labourers, " We
will do for you what we have said the manufacturers ought to
do for those from whom they derived their wealth?"—(Hear,
hear.) But. the farmers were finding out the truth, and one
of them in the west of England said to him, " We have found
that there is a greater devil than Lord John !"_-(A laugh. )
He believed that tlie Right Hon. Baronet did all the good for
the country that his party would allow him.—(Hear, hear.)
But the Right Hon. Baronet would find that every interest in
the country which was affected by his measures would press
upon him until they compelled him to go to the agriculturists,
and tell them that they could not be allowed to carry out any
principle in opposition to the resolution before the House.
After a few words in- explanation from Mr. DARBY and
Sir JOWN TVaitenn,
Mr. BLACKSTONE said that there was no doubt that
every one had expected it was the intention of the Right
Hon. Baronet to propose an alteration of the scale, but he for
one was not prepared for so great a one as had been proposed.
—( Hear, hear.) If such an alteration had been proposed by
the Noble Lord the Member for London, would one of the
county Members have voted for it ? (Cheers.) He (Mr.
Blackstone) had been through the whole east of England, and
he knew that the strongest feeling prevailed throughout against
the measure proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet.--( hear. )
Lord WORSLEY must pers:st in saying that the measure
created the greatest alarm amongst his constituents, but if it
were thrown out he did not think that a fixed duty measure
could be carried.
Mr. PALMER had never given a pledge to his constituents
on this question—(Hear, hear)—but knowing now that they
looked with the greatest alarm on a measure that would strike
off half their protection at one stroke of the pen ; and still appre-
hending a worse measure. if the present were not carried, Le
advised them to acquiesce. as theyhad agreed to do so.—(Hear,
hear.) They thought it better to submit to the Right Hon.
Baronet, than fall into the hands of the Noble Lord opposite.—
(Cheers. ) He had come, upon the whole, to that conclusion,
although perhaps reluctantly, that, under existing circum-
stances, the best course which the friends of British agricul-
ture could pursue would be to support the measure introduced
by the Government.
Mr. EA'f ON said that he:had voted for the second reading
of the Government measure, under the supposition that it
might undergo considerable amendments is Committee; but

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING

he was very sorry to find that he had been disappointed in that
expectation.--( Hear, hear.) He thought the protection
given by the Bill of the Right Hon. Baronet to the growers of
wheat was insufficient, while the scale as regarded barley and
oats was repudiated by every friend of B.itish agriculture. He
had net been aware, too, at the time he had voted fur the se-
cond reading of the Bill, of the intentions of the Government
upon the subject of the tariff, and of that tariff he greatly dis-
approved. Under these circumstances •he could not help ex-
pressing his dissent from the measure of the Government, and
his regret that they had been introduced by the Right: Hon
Baronet. —(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition benches.)
Mr. FIELDEN, who spoke in a tone which rendered him
almost totally inaudible, was understood to say that that House
had shown its determination to protect no interest but that of
the agriculturist. They hail not protected the labouring
classes—thq had not protected the hand-loom weavers. They
had a cart wath only one wheel. Under these circumstances
he could not vote for the third reading of the Bill; if he were
for the motion, he should be voting for that which was unjust
in principle and unwise in practice.
Mr. BROTH ERTON observed that there had been a eon •
stain increase in the price of food since the year 1815, while
there had been no corresponding increase in the rate of wag( s.
On the contrary, wages had of late years been constantly
declining. The rate of wages had diminished during those
periods when food was at the highest price. It was to thatd-pre-
elation of wages and the consequent suffering among the
labouring classes that he wished to invite the serious attention
of the House. It was an indisputable fact, that many labourers
in Stockport were now earning no more than 10d. a week.
He believed that those evils were mainly owing. to the present
Corn-laws. Those laws were equally unjust and impolitic; they
had been founded for the purpose of excluding foreign corn,
while it was evident that this country, which had mported on
the average 62,000,000 quarters of wheat of late
years, could not dispense with supplies from abroad.
The increasing population could not be provided for without an
extension of manufactures. He believed that the effect of the
Corn-laws was to burden the people with a tax of twenty mil-
lions a year. The objectof such laws was to keep up the rents,
and he entreated the House to consider whether it was fair to
sacrifieetheir interest s for such an object. —( Cries of 66 Divide.")
Sir VALENTINE BLAKE said he had intended to move a
resolution, in Committee, to the following effect:—" That, not-
withstanding the benevolent desire expressed in her Majesty's
Speech on the opining of the Session, and the express
declaration of her Majesty's Government thereon, that they
would not sanction any law which would tend to increase
the restrictions in the supply of corn in the home market, a
law had been proposed by her Majesty's Government, and
advanced far towards accomplishment, which would increase
the price of corn to the consumer, and make the monopoly
of the landed aristocracy more durable, and therefore
more intolerable." The lion. Member proceeded to say,
amidst repeated interruptions:, that his reason for not proposing
this resolution was, that he had hoped to see some more compe-
tent Member bring forward that view of the subject. He re-'
gretted that no one had done so. He regarded the present sys-
tem as one of gross fraud and injustice, and was convinced that
that was the light in which it would be views d by the country.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For Mr. Cobden's motion
Against it ...
Majority against the motion —lso
Mr. J. W. HEN DLEY moved the adjournment of the de-
bate on the Bill till Monday next.
Mr. -BLEWETT seconded the motion.
The House divided, and there appeared.-- '
For the adjournment
Against it .... .......... 247
Majority
On the question, that the Bill be read a third time,being put
by the Speaker,

Dr. BOWRING opposed the third reading, and pressed
his opposition to a division.
The numbers were—
For the third reading ... ...... ... 229
Against...—. 9O
Majority for the third reading ._-.139
On our re-admission to the gallery, we found
Mr. F. FRENCH upon his legs, moving the following
clause :--" Provided always, and be it enacted, that so much of
this Act as allows the importation into Ireland of flour, the
produce and manufacture A any foreign country, or of any
British possession out of Europe, shall not commence and take
effect until from and after the expiration of six calendar monthl
from the passing hereof." He trusted that, on the principle of
doing justice to Ireland, the Right Baronet would not refuse to
accede to the introduction of the clause.

Sir ROBERT PEEL bad proposed to subject all the corn
growers of the country to immediate competition with the
foreigner. Take the example of oats for instance. Complaints
had been made that sufficient protection was not given to
Irish oats, yet he proposed to subject the Irish oat
growers at once to competition with the foreigner.
He had a strong impression that it would be for the benefit of
the growers themselves that the law should come into imme-
diate operation. If he were to agree to the motion of the Hon.
Gentlemen he doubted if it would be of any benefit to those
whom the Hon. Gentleman. sought to serve. He did
not imagine that there was that immediate danger from foreign
competition which the Hon. Gentleman seemed to apprehend,
Under all the circumstances, he thought he should. be
subjecting himself to a charge of partiality if he con-
sented to exempt any one particular interest from the
immediate operation of the Bill. He believed there was no
danger of immediate competition, and therefore he could not
consent to the introduction of the clause.

Sir W. SOMER VlLLE—said there were many Gentlemen
on the opposite side of the House who opposed the moderate
proposition of the late President of the Board of Trade for the
admission of foreign flour. It was not a question of individual
interest, but one vitally interesting to Ireland. And now theie
Hon. Gentlemen were coming forward to give a third reading
to that Bill, which would destroy all those interests. He would
like to ask the Hon. Gentlemen opposite whether they were
sincere in the occasion of their opposition to the late proposal ?
—(Hear.) He would read a few extracts from one or two
speeches of Gentlemen opposite against that proposition, and
then he would ask Hon. Gentlemen how they conld reconcile
their consciences to vote for the third reading of this Bill. The
first be came to was the Hon. Member for Belfast. The Hon.
Gentleman said, on the occasion of the proposition being made
to the Howe, that he did not oppose the measure upon narrow
principles, but upon the broad principle that it would interrupt
agricultural improvements. It wasa measure affecting the in •
terest of all classes. He (Mr. B Tennant) was then prepared
to show that the proposal would not be a sufficient protection
against Ainerica. These were the words of the Hon. Gentleman,
and he (Sir W. Somerville) could not see how the Hon.
Gentleman could n_ ow support the Right Hon. Baronet. The
Hon. Member for Donegal al o said, that the effect of the
proposition would be to break faith with 1,800 persons, who
had commenced business •on the security of this law.
The Honourable Gentleman then said that the pro-
position, if carried into a law, would destroy all their interests.
He would leave those Hon. Gentlemen to settle this matter
with their own consciences : however they might settle it with
their own consciences.he did not know what they would do
with their constituencies.

Mr. GLADSTONE said that he formed a better estimate of
time than the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down ; he
should not, therefore, occupy the Houie with any lengthened
observations. Owing to the noise in the House, we were un-
able to catch the Hon. Member's observations further than
that he was of opinion that the Clause of the Hon. Gentleman
was one that the House could not accede to.
Mr. O'CONNELL said that if. his Hon. Friend persisted in
dividing the House be must vote against it.
Mr. CHRISTMAS said, that though he did not entirely
concur in the measures of her Maje;ty's Government, not con-
sidering that sufficient protection was afforded, still, as he
approved of the main principles of the measure, he thought it
right to vote for the third reading.
After a few words from Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL,
Mr. F. FRENCH withdrew his motion.
On the question being again put that the Bill be read a third
time.

Mr. ALEXANDER JOHNSTON moved the addition of
a clause to the effect, " That foreign or colonial flour in
bond, of such a degree of acidity as to be generally
unfit for human food, and which shall be so ascertained by a
test to be furnished by the Board of Trade, shall be permitted
to be taken out of bond for use in the manufacture and finish-
ing of cotton and other goods, upon payment of the duty a
one penny per hundred." The Hon. Member then proceeded
to read a letter from a chemical gentlemen, stating that
flour was sometimes in a state totally unfit for human food.
Mr PHILIPS seconded the motion. Flour was indispensi-
ble in the manufacture of cotton ;
,they wished to use the best,
but they could not do so, considering the low price foreign ma-
nufacturers obtained it at. All they wanted now was that a
duty of the amount stated should be permitted to be paid on
flour from abroad, when it had first beenmade unfit for human
or animal food by a chemical process. Some manufacturers
would save 1,000/. a year by it. He would in a few days prove
tl at this process could be certainly executed.
Mr. COBDEN also spoke in fivour of the motion. To refuse
it would, in fact, add to the privations of the poor.
The House was at first going to divide on the motion, but it
was not presse'.
The clause was then brought up.
A short discussion on a point of form ensued upon the clause
being ►cad, after which it was negatived without a division.

Mr. WAKLEY then rose to move that it was unjust to in-
ch:de i t the returns, of the averages wheat that sad for less
flan one-third of the highest market-price averages. He
thought the object of his motion was one deserving t.,,e atten-
tie!, of the House—that the proposition was based in
justice and sound principles, and ought to be adop!ed. The
lion. Member then read a letter from a correspondent, stating
that 303 quarters per week of bad wheat entered into the port
of London from t,cotland, and that it had been said
that the whole was used for starch, and not for food.
The effect in Mark-lane of the sale of 1,800 quarters by one
house alone, was to lower the average price of the week in
which the sale took place 7s. dsl. a quarter. It had been also
discovered that grain in certain states was a prolific source of
disease ; a modern discovery with respect- to rye was
a most important one ; that grain was at one time
very extensively used in this country, and at that period par-
ticular diseases constantly appeared in the body, of which the
cause could not be ascertained. These were gangrene and
mortification of the feet. Medical men bad on examinati,:n
discovered the cause to be a disease in rye, and now one of the
mistea sped state.ow• erfull
t.was the m
s w- ass.
emith rice, ie;
composediefrorn the grain in its
dtsl)r.
Tytler having
d scovered that the cast:me-known as Cholera proceeded frcm
a disease in this grain. Wheal was subject to a similar change
a: rye. He did nut think a more important propositiou on the
s tbject could be made to the House.
Mr. HAVES seconded the 'notion.
The clause was then read a first time. On the question that
it be read a second time.
Sir R. PEEL thought the effect of the clause would be
delusive. It would give the power to any individual by selling
a single bushel of superior wheat at a third of the market price
to exclude a large quantity of grain from the averages. lie
thought it would be dangerous and open a door to fraud.
Mr. WAKLEY replied. ,He thought the question one of
great importance, and he trusted that though.the clause wrs
wordsa and
nnel gs ,
not so framed as to meet alLthe objections, yet that the Right
lion. Barone*. would give it his careful consideration, with a
view to prevent the evil:: he had alluded to.
lARa nDI.
without add Lord WORSLEY,
iv ision.
the Aclause a wasfe% * ine n
On the question that theßilldo pass,
Mr. COBDEN said that he must enter his protest against
the passing of this Bill. He protested against this Bill as a
robbery of the poor.---( Hear, hear.) It was a daring robbery
of the poor—a robbery without compensation.—(Hear,
hear.) The people would not petition the House anymore to
talk of the bread-tax. He sincerely hoped they would not.
waste their time by sending petitions to that house for any
such purpose.—(Cheers irons the Ministerial benches) - They
would not petition that House, but he trusted, etc long, they
would pour in their petitions to the Throne, beseeching
her Majesty to dismiss this -House of P.,
-AMTIOIIII, and to
dismiss her present Ministers. (Cheers and laughter.)
If a dissolution of Parliament were to take place, and the
people should be.again appealed to, he had a strong opinion that
the House that would then be -returned would not continue
the bread tax. The result would be very:different to what it
had been at the last election, when the grossest delusion had
been practised on the people:--(.Ministerial ironical cheers.)
The majority of the present -Howe had been returned by the
grossest delusion being practised on the People, who had at the
last election been made the victims of a system of the most
disgrauful chicanery, trickery, and quackery that had even
been practised. 'the people would rot aghin be the dupes ofsu.h
delusions—they 'would nevia again return such a majority.—
(Irenital cheers.) He repeated it—the-people would not be