The Sun.
London, England, 1820-05-09 00:00:00

CIVIL LIST:

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Pi
CHEqUEZ, the Order of the D.ty for taking inr
further consideration the Report of the Cornmitt°
on the Civil List having been read,

The CHANCELLOR of the I.4.;XCHEQUita (wh°64
speech was but very imperfectly heard in the gio'
lery, on occultly ol the movement and agitadifil
which prevailed in the House) said, that brio°
he should move the Resolution with
,which he irld
tended to conclude, he should offer a few explatiB'
tory observations to the House. air former oe
cesium; the object of those explanations had beef
twofold. They hail been given, either to acco"11
for sortie deficiency in the yeaentre of the Civi
List, compared with its expenditure, and to OV
culpate those who he'd its management 5 or t°
show the grounds on which soma new arrange
ment was submitted tor the approbation of rarlia;
ment. By neither of these causes was be I,°
called upon to address the House. There was p°
deficiency to account for, and no new sOmein tt
propose for carrying on the Civil Government, f°
the system established in 181 G had proved afire
(pate to every purpose. In comparing the s(6%e
,
of the Civil List beture, with its condition affell
that system had been adopted, it appeared that
bad become necessary to apply four times to rill;
liament for the payment of its debts, aHd that fo"
times during the course of the late reign had Par;
'lament, wit':out any inquiry, voted money fu}
that purpose, and increased the amount of tbe
Civil List. 1n.1812, considerable reform had bee/
introduced into the original system. The
List bad then been divided into classes, and II
regular succession established, so that n0r:4419,:
was paid till the one immediately before had bee".
fully satisfied. By such a course material ecott°'
i•..y was attained. He then took a view of the
aerations produced by Mr. But he's Bill. S.lll;cei
the breaking out of the. French war, the expet°:
tore of the Civil List had considerably increatte"
and time accounts had been laid before Parliaments
and submitted to the investigation ail Committeei
The debts of the Civil List had been paid, a"
further provision made to augment its asnouot'
For several years it did not become necessary to
call upon the public for a direct provision to alee
the continual increase of expenditure. The 9°'
taken from time Lo time out of the Droits of Atl'
miralty proved sufficient for that purpose. Yet
1804, a fresh estimate had been laid by Mr. I
before the House, and when, in 1811 and JO"
the subject was again brought into considered/
it was found that the expenditure exceegie
by 124,0001. the Parliamentary allowance.'
In 1816 the Civil List bad once more been regts:
lilted. A Committee was appointed on 114 Om
of April, and did not make its report till the be;
ginning of shine, so that the system establishe
at that period had been the result of the most ilovi
tore deliberation.- The contingent and occasio°
payments had then been provided for in a separl
manner, and economy had been greatly promotet
by the certainty of those payments, whilst 1116
comforts and convenience of the persons who 41t:^4
pended on the Civil List were equally advanced'
and the distress which had been suffered by th!
small pensiOners when several quarters of tut.
Civil List were in arrear, had been entirely r.e""
moved. • The establishment of 1816 might there
fore be considered as satisfactOry to the-Cro44ri
and economical towards the public, for it tell fs,r
short of the estimate formed in 1815, and, 99 4
would appear by the papers laid before the House'
was less by 150,0001. than the average of die
three preceding years. in calling upon tbe
House to approve of time renewal of that estl
blishment, he should therefore only recommeot,
that which experience had sanctioned as just ou:
efficient, and which provided and preserved
proper degmee of controul to prevent the recol.,:
rence of former embarrassments. it was Wendel'
to propose the adoption of the entire establisl".
ment of 1816, with the exception of a consider:i
able reduction in the first class, which crinsis"
of the Windsor Establishment and thesrrivyrulei.e:
and hitherto amounted to 298,0001. Time %Vinti
sor Establishment would be entirely reduced,.s°
that a saying of 230,0001• would take place:l_a
that class, which world be burdened with. 0:
other charge than the 60,0001. of the Privy Por,st;
and some provision for the servants of his
Majesty. Having stated thus much, he shou.
not trouble the House further, as other opPors„
ap
cities would occur for entering into anyislll%no
tion which might be required. He then vg,),:
that the first resolution be read a second_ titre'.
Lord J. Russset. rose with conSideLable
to oppose the motion, and should have he_e,,l;
poppy if Ministers had taken 'lron theAnselveti

I

i

air rates ag
witbdi
re, aberel
ior rates/
if son_ietk
ild be desti

iyer or
the fin
of
. he "
,sition fur

to of tazati(
consider
be Frac"

creocrai C 4
rs," which
d gone 00
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it on the
e in the vo
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of
not retitiii°
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untine; t°
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pay d
these, a_„
it. think
WAS able

trtan• tion'
ie Petition'

tent with ts,
jell was/ tb
retals, you,
sisted of oso
Friend o.'l°

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3 the prell
and w'd't

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a king
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tR (W"64
tile Or'
skita(i°l/
That beit't

ich
explo°B4
'ormer oc'
bad VI
to accoil"l
the Civ4
Ind toeV
it
' . or 44/
arrate
9 be t)°'
Te Was 0o
systein It?
intent, f(7r
'oved a"'
the state
(ion offel;
red that g_

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had PiWe
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nt of IV
had beell
The Civi'

es, and
r not:zing.
bad bees
iai eV/11f:
ew of by
Silr.
increaset°

otO-toitree.
si'd
s tt'utovot'
etssary
o to illeec
The full!s
is of M
Irct 111
r Mr. Plc
auti ISV''
hieratiou;
excevie".
mance."'

kllO 1"
►ve
sCIVCi

task of proposing, a Committee, tit take the- Civil
List into consideration. The qnentioni.howeve.r,
he conceived to be siMplythis—whether the Re-
p. r santatives of 'the -Peaple, With their professions
still treshlan their lips, would' tell. their consri-
ttlenis, " we have accepted the Estimate brought
down .by a Minister of the Crown, on a subject
sshicii one-third of its has never had an oppor-
loon y ot investigating, and without the least in-
(fairy,' we have come to the decision that it is tv.st
adapted to the interests of'theconntry."—(Hear,
heat !)--It appeared to him that the appointment
of a Committee • would be far more beneficial to
the Crown, and snore satisfactory to the people.
This was a time when complaints of distress arose
from all classes of his Nl,jesty's subjects. Agri-
culture, trade, anti manufactures, suffered equally;
nod their misery was augmented, he conceived,
by be ;Arrangements entered into last year to re-
sume bullion payments, an arrangement which
be did not mean to blame, hut which showed how
mach more difficult it was to retrieve an error
than to avoid its commission. The cot rency had
arisen from 25 to 30 per cent. in value since last
year, whilst the taxes hail only been diminished
since the peace about 23 per cell!. so that the
people suffered under a greater burthen of imposts
than in time of war. In such a state of things,
were arrangements like that now proposed to be
entered into withont inquiry Even if the ar-
rangement of 1816 had been as perfect as it could
be made, he should still think it the duty of the.
House to look into it before agreeing to its adop-
tion. if the present estimate was to he voted
without inquiry, the House of Commons was
completely useless, and the gross sum ehoSen by
his Majesty might as well he inserted in the Ga-
zette, as for a Minister to come down to Parlia-
ment with a set of fixed resolutions. As to the
amount mentioned, it was a fallacy. The House
must consider that the Queen was to be provided
for, and that the Servants of his late Majesty at
Windsor must also be placed upon the Civil List.
Was it not proper that Parliament should have a
voice in these arraneements In proposing the
same amount as in 1816, the Right Honourable
Gentleman was not so moderate as he wished to
appear. The House must recollect that there were
two establishments at that .period; and to pto-
pose the same amount for one as was formerly
granted for the service of two, was no very extraor-
tainarydisplay of economy. He then objected to the
revival of several offices existing on thelVindsor Es-
tablishment, and some of which, the Master of the
Hawks in particular, had been created in times
when they were accompanied with real services,
but had since become entirely useless. It appear-
ed, that since the accession of his late Majesty,
live arrangements of the Civil List had taken
place, and its debts had beets paid nine Hines.
The papers before die House also spewed, that
during the same period, not less than twenty
millions had been paid for the service of the-Civil
List, which formed _no part of the revenue affixed
to it by Parliament. It was wrong to suppose
that the whole Civil Government was paid .out of
the Civil List. It bad been found inconvenient
that the whOle of that enormous expense should
be defrayed ont of that fund, and Ministers had
been continually transferring some parts into other
funds, and leaving uhconneeted fragments of vari-
ous services behind. 'Die Heir Presumptive was
no where to be found in the Civil List, whilst it
contained officers belonging to the Lord Chancel.:
for down to the rat-killer of Carlton Palace.
An objection bad been raised against what was
called insult itig the King ; but the debts. incurred
were not always on account of the Royal House-
hold. The Noble Lord (Castlereagh) who had
opened the subject in 1816, hail stated that a
great portion ot ahem had been incurred by our
Foreign Missions. There was even, amongst
other chat ges, one of 50001. for a festival to ce-
lebrate the return of Ferdinand VII. to Spain !
(Laughter !)—These expenses were totally ou-
connected with the Crown ; how, therefore, could
an inquiry tend to insulate a King I It was found
that in the most violent writings, even in those of.
Cobbett, who, it might have been expected, would
have respected nothing, the greatest respect was
raid to the Crown. Ministers availed themselves
of this disposition. They did not call upon !be
-people to rally round them, but round the Throne,
b"cease they were then sure to share the
support which it would always joyfully receive
troth the country. It would be benefitting in-
Stead of injuring the King, to insulate him and
i aparate him from certain parts of the Civil List.
he Secret Service money, that popular branch
vsl
hich rewarded the services of Castles. Oliver,
41.41 Edwards, formed part of the Civil List, and
eauld not certainly be deemed necessary to sup-
Port the dignity of the Crown, and give it a de-
Kree of• splendour which it did not possess. One
Pt the Officer: remaining on that List was dignified
,„-I? the name of Judge. It had been the great ob-
iet of the Nation to have its Judges unconnect-
ed with political duties, and above the reach of re.
,"rd or punishment ; but this'one was chiefly en-
r4 Fed in defending the conduct of his I‘lajesty's
!nisters in that very House. He hoped he had
sa,"a
e, nough to sbow the propriety of inquiry.—
• was due to the new Reign, to the Crown, and
1_
the People by whom they had been sent to- re-
Present theta
and protect their interests-in Parlia-
beat • He. then moved that the first Resolution
,ef read a second time this day se'nnight, instead
"ow.
It,
14,„_
e‘l, ARRE seconded the motion, and corn-
to`e:tend d that the Committee of 1816 had been ten •
. totally inefficient, by being deprived of the
c,,
er of sending for persons, papers, and records.
("ins had been laid before that Committee but
sack e
hats'ltnates as the Ministers themselves hail
aer,;lei la without any means being affottled of as-
afling their propriety.
•1
Kruk
linsxissoN contended, that far from its
'aving been the practice of our ancestors to ere-
c
th e
ere _v`! voting of the Civil List by an inquiry,
earti. a.s no instance of such an inquiry on re-
anti
t, ft therefore rested with the Noble Lora
cae
_llB Senfinder, to prove that in the resent
thi.v."r",
the
had occurred to render it -fleets-
the Itoyd Establishment at Windsor ter-
‘‘,4:l':(l with the demise of the Crown, and the
th,a . of its amount would torn to the profit of
Ivot4).tiblic. The estahlishmerit of the Regent
,° retratia on the same footing, now that he
tate.—
'tilt a hing, as it 1145 before be had',

ascended the throne. Would the Noble Lord
then content! that the establishment for a Monarch
should be inferior to that of a Regent ?• If he did
nut mean this, he could make no case for an in-
quiry in opposition to all precedents. All parti-
culats on the subject were before the House in
1816, where they were stated so minutely, that
any Gentleman who objected to any part might
point it out without the necessity of any inquiry.
With respect to the office of Master of the Hawks,
it would have been abolished if it had been prac-
ticable ; but it was an office held in the nattcre
of a freehold, and granted by the Crown at a
time when it bad the power of making such
grants. As to the small salaries which had
been objected to, they were also grants in per-
petuity, and could not be revoked. He admitted
that the Report of the Committee in 1815 did not
contain the same estimate as that afterwards
artop;ed by Pat liament, but a deduction of 21,0001.
had been made in the Departments of the House-
hold alone, in consequence of an alteration in the
price of things. He then took an hivotical view
of the manner iu which the hereflitaty revenue
had been regulated, till it had at last been wholly
surrendered by his late Majesty. By the 22d of
the King, commonly called Mr. Burke's Act, a
classification had been introduced into the Civil
List. This measure had been followed by various
other regulations ; but it was not until the year
1816 that an important division bad been made,
and all those expences which had grown during
the war to an enormous amount, anti over which
the Crown had no control, had been removed
from the Civil List. The expenditure of both
Houses of ,Pariiatnent, which at the commence-
ment of the late reign did not exceed two or three
thousand pounds, bad risen to such a height
during the war, that the charge•lof printing 410ne
was 100,0001. Was it possible for the CrOwn,
with a fixed revenue, to meet such expeuces,
which it could not controttl, and which might have
no limits ? Every thing of a fluctuating and vary-
ing nature had therefore been • wisely removed
front the Civil List. It was en ativantaL:e
that the charges for our Ministers abroad should
continue on that List; for the amonnt was fixed ;
whereas if tite matter was thrown into any other
branch it might escape attention, and would
swell to a much greater amount. The benefi. of
these arrangements had, been fully proved by the
experience of the last four years,,, during woad'
the expenditure bad not fluctuatedaine
an occurrence which. had never taken place be-
fore. Au efficient check had also been created in
1816, over the expenditure of the Choi Litt.
That check existed before in thi, Leeds of the
Treasury, bit the appointment of an auditor, wit.
had constantly that expenditure under his eves,
had Oleo beau for the first rime effecred. the
House-had thus.obtained what muss. lion. 1.4 e, n its
object, to preveor by appropriatrt.n kne
cation of -the public money. 11 t•r qte
Noble Lord to show, that too much had been
granted. If he tailet4 in doing this, ,b„„),1
also fail in laying .a sufficient g, tin• inquiry
into the Civil List.

Mr. littouGtistta explained, that he ;,:q1 not le-
comineuded the abolition of the StikileS
charged on the Civil List. 1-1 c .rdv tnuu,;ht
them forward in ,answer tki.thr g.,111 rt ti-ed,
that to detach certain brae, he 1... Ht List
would be to impair the Roy,' ,;ignity, •and he
ohly wished to show diet :hey :ifi,..fi'liOtlllll4
that dignity. He had mete ioned tut Vicav the
Tower, the Keeper the Lions, itn,i he stiolid
add the Rat-killer tit Carl .:n l',llce, hat with
view to motet klieg' or torir fiery moderate sa-
laries, tor he did not -deoy their utility, The
existence of rats was as clear as that of I!,e nobler
animals in the Tovver ~no no on:.. would atta,:h
little importance to their deltroCtion who cowi-
dered the nature of the vermin, and the noxious-
ness of that vile tace.—(Repeated cht,ers)—He
meant only that it was Will itog such tare, should
be on the Cis it Gist. lie had also-expre,i,dy men-
tiooed the Royal Astrouttmer, but he •rti.ied not
one Gentleman could harbour toe thought that
he would wi,h to curtail nue single pound of Cie
salary which that rest,, stable iu :ividdal so use-
fully earued. All he turat,t to say was, that there
would be no wore degradation to, the Crown to
be paid out of the Cousolitleed Fund, with those
persons, than out of the Civii List, which now
supported them all.

Mr. TIERNEY regretted that a debate like the
present should occur under circumstances of dis-
tress and diffic.:lly unorecedeived in our history.
The House was called on under hese enprolii-
tions circumstances, when our agricultural interest
complained aloud of its distress, when the com-
mercial part of this once fl:onishing country,
could not promise itself any hove of 'chief tr..in
any quarter throughout its foreign relations, w.nen
the milmnacturing- districts had broken (Jilt into
open insurrection and .vi.,lencv, in more places
than one, to make an increased allowance for the
use of the Executive. . He had addressed the.
House on the subject of retrenchment in this par-
ticular in the last Session of the last Pal liameut.
His voice had been re-echoed by that of petitions
front all quarters praying for
.the strictest eco-
nomy. He felt he owed the House, .therefore,
no °polo,/ for dissenting from the proposition of
the Right Hon. Gent, the Chancellor or the Ex-
chequer. He never would consent to the doctrine,
that the House ought not to demand ti further
investigation of the subject, if its present arrange-
ment was the result of actual inquiry. This was
the worst of all arguments, as it was evident the
more extravagant the grant was, supposing it two
millions instead of one million, the stronger would
have been the argument against the Flutise attempt-
ing any thing like retrenchment. In 1815 his ob-
jections to the statement made on the•e heads of.
expense arose from a conviction that trn,h never
would be arrived at- whilst the estimates were
made out by persons interested in concealing in-
formation of the utmost importance ro thems,lves,
as officers deriving a benefit- from these transac-
tions. He had then inquired on what were these
estimates grounded, but received no satisfaction.
As to the Board of Works, it was soon found to
be impossible to proceed without inquiry ; and
notwithstanding all that was now said as to the
indelicacy of forcing his Majesty to ',ticker him.
self from such petty scrutiny by living on board
wages or in a chop-house, an officer (Mr. Harri-
sou) bad beau appoiutcd with a salary of 1,5601.

whose business it was to examine into the scale
of expenditure for the Royal table,.even to the
eggs and butter furnished for it. These were not
considered questions of great delicacy when a dy-
ing King was,•the party affected by the arrange-
ment ; hot an ample investigation took place of
the whole subject throtigit Colonel Stevenson : he,
however, required no such examination. into mi-
moire ; he °illy. wished the House to do its duty,
and say what ought to be granted ; and he was
sstisfied, that if on such an inquiry the House
only came to the deterMination to retrench a sin•
gig thousand pounds on the whole 849,0001. the
• country would consent to it with cheerfulness;
brit without some further information anti conces-
sion the public would not be content. In one
case it appeared, that the recommendation -of
a Committee had been so exorbitant that the
Ministers themselves were ashamed of it, and
abandoned the idea of following it up by any re-
solutions. Nothing could be mote •vague than
the calculation as to the expense of Foreign Am-
bassadors. He at great length endeavoured r 9
prove, that the estimate founded on the years in-
tervening bet wecn.lBo4 and 1811 were not such
as should be taken a., an average. Many immensely
Leavy expenses were just then being incurred.—
The uroviding Palaces for the younger branches
of the Royal Family, the appointment of an esta-
blislorient for the Princess Charlotte, the Queen's
expense incidental to her removal for her health,
the retirement of the Royal Family to Weymouth,
were all heavy expo noes occurring within this
period, and therefore rendered it a very improper
period from which to draw an average. The
difference of the estimates, even regarded as the
Right Hon. Gentleman had stated, demanded-in-
vestigation. There was 856,0001. for England,
and 200,0001. for Ireland. Now, how was this
expenditure accounted for ? It was not enough
!hat in au-v twiner years this sum was appropriated
for the per poses of the Royal Revenue ; but in the
present cif cont.( auces of the country, it was highly
necessary anti expedient that the appropriation of
sac!) a sum should he accounted for. Tire House of
Commons should know. if such a sum were fairly
and properly disposed of. lt appeared an increase
had ;.then place of 12470001. since the arrange-
ment entered into by Mr: Pitt, and upon tilt: mere
circumstance of profit and loss, trifling as suclea
sum might be, it would be. satisfactory
.to the
eauntry to know bow it was managed, If no
other -subject remained for investigation., it was
his opinion that what lie had mentined. should
go before aCt:mhittee. And upon commence-
ment of a hew t eign nothing was more nece'ssarv,
.1) that all t-e circumstances .co:,necied with
.the expenditure of the Monarch, should be sub-
j.r eed to the in,esligatiou of Parliament ; .the
l'arliantent being still liable to the observation of:
the poblic It was it le matter what riiight'have
been expended by the late Sovereign ; his expen-
diture was in a great degree liable to the.cootroul
ot. Parliament, and if certain items
~tre, not
within its reach, they had cee,da- provisions, matte-
for his conduct, out of which their.confroul
not positively reach. Therefore there. coUld
,be
no analogy between what had previously occurred,
and what might now occur at the comtiretieCqtreirt
of a new reign. Besides, there was now sortie
tiiliererr Queen 'Could not now find her pro-
per placze...on tlieCivil List i she apdeared to be ex-
•citedef troll) .-:tense• places and sttuations that be-
loirgertio herliwhody knew tile grounds on which
shcstolot.' The LOrd Chancellor recognized-her sta-
•troo by.lheitrvesrittire.of her cell alit officers, while
:nothineosvas .expressly mentioned wiin regard: to
her etie_peecir,from tbe-Throne„or in the lan-
guage of Ministers;. but. all„was left to doubt. or
at all ,events, to .nocertain -data, whicli few coold
.undeestand. Who conids,ast what precise sum was
,at the disposal of_ the late ? Who could say
what was, the nature of his own.peculiar fonds ?
Who could say what sums were his in right of his
(Alice, or those accruing to him as King of these
kintrdoms ? To ascertain this was his object, and
,%.hat lie thought must be uninvidiausly the ob-
ject of every Me:Mber in the House. The 'Dn.-
cities of Lancaster. and Cornwall yielded different
revenues ; Latica,.ter 70,0001., Cornwall 15;0001.
per annum. How were these slims applied ? Pa-
pers were produced, by which it appeared, thLt out
(0 385,0001. struia were distributed to the atnount
itt 60001. per year, making a grf,ss tat.:) for 60
years of 90,0001. ; brit surely it was nor too Mild!
to r •quile explanation on this head, Well ; but
admitting this, adtnitting it to be the real fact as
stated, still it remained a matter of inquiry, whe-
ther, under all the cirrnina!ances of the 'Crown
.and of the Country, 850.0001. ought .or ought not
to be now given ? Nobody couldinsist touch on
•he, casual revenues of . the Crown, their nu-
tire , Their' disposal '; but it was,
tial to 'tams, what were tire real resources
of the Crown, what its meani of support,
and what the method of application of those
resoprces.. A jealousy of these things was no in-I
fringement of the privileges 'of the Crown ; to
ascertain Hiroo and to watch over them. was the
bounden duty of the House of Commons. In Feb,
1816, the
.Reports brought forward stated certain
mat tvr. as In the extent of the property of his 'life
Majesty, as of his Alajesty ; and surely it was not
now too noteli to ascertain or endeavour to ascer-
tain how those' bolds were disposed. of which
either came under the controul of the Sovereign
of himself, or, it not under his conttoul, ought
necessarily and fairly to come under the cowl-tilt'
Of Parliament. It .might or it might not be a bad
time to bring these ;natters under the discussion
of Parliament ; but no man could give hiS'confi-
deuce to a Parliameot which would not fairly and
honestly apply themselves to the whole consider-
ation of so momentiots a question. The ques-
tion before the House was riot too, general too,
specific ; it was a question open to all men, not
blinded or cautioned except as his Majesty's Mi-
nisters wished to do so ; and a question; of all
others on which the House of Commons ought
to deeitie., The oranquiliity of the country de-
pended on the discussion they adopted.; it was
for the Horse to decide; he had done his duty,
and should leave the question to the consideration
and fair discussion of the House.

esseti

Mr. CANNING, after a few prefatory temarks,
proceeded to observe, that it was the usage and
custom of Pat lisment, in the commencement of a
(Jew reign, to rote the Civil • List wit hunt inves-
tigation. it had been 40 since the rtil'a of Wil-

fiats. He contended that, tire•preeedent ought to
he implicitly followed ; or, if it , were not, that
those who proposed a deviation from the ancient
established practice should show a special case to
make the deviation advisable. If,' for instance,
at the end of a long reign, doting the course of
which there did not appear to be any exceedings
of the arrangements of the Civil List, • yet the
very lapse of time naeht possibly have given
rise to some abuse, or created such a ,necessity
for new arrangements as to cell for inquiry ; or
again, in case of there having been a previous re-
cent investigation, and that it appeared there
were great exceedings, or a treat want of economy,
which prevented the settlements from bring ad-
hered to, in either of those cases there would be
a ground for deviation frogs the accustomed prec-
tice. In the present instance, there was' no ease
made out to warrant the exception. How was it
possible there could, when there had been an in-
quiry both minute anti recent, since which it could
not be proved that there were any exceedings„ or
any want of economy in .addition to the prima
facie evidence of usage ?—Did theme exist grounds
for doing what was new, pat tial, and unex
rn-
pled ? No—but there was a complete union of are
giimeot and precedent in favour of the aecustorn-
ed course. Its answer to
:what the Right Ho'.
notteable,Gentleman had said, as to the private
revenue of the Sovereign, when be feirly.sta,ed
that it was not subjecteel.to any account, he
(Mr. Canning) thought it was properly so exempt.
ed. But that was no personal favour to the pre.
sent Sovereign—it was a right enjoyed by F is pre-
decessor. It was the essence of that establishment—
it was the natural and preper character of it, and
had met with dist ioct substantive recognition.--.
The Rieht Hon. Gentleman had also wished them
to recollect, that there were other funds enjoyed
by his Majesty which did not come mote, the
cognizance of Parliament, but those also bed been
possessed by his predecessors. The Dechies of Lan-
caster and Cornwall had been eijoyed by the late
King as well as by his present Majesty. Some of
those fends were held by original possession, end
others _bythe demisr.o( the former Sovereiee. The
Rt. HorreGeut. bed also endeavottred to raise'euspi-
'cioo by Speaking of the tiches which he said had
been amassed
.by, the late King.. He _Cdr. Can-
ning) was able to state with some confiucoce that
the greatest part sit the sums, in question had ac-
cumulated subsequesrtly to the commencement of
his. life' INTajeety's illne4,eand weiee in fact, saved
since lie had --ceased 404ave-thppower of--dHsos-
ing of his own: hinds. By far the ereatest part
of thee- acceeoultifion cohld have otherwise
"*.Wfien if.was how•ntenv Calls
• •
there were on the., Royal income—when it was
considered that vast- • numbers of individuals
carried_ not-- to thin Sovereign. on • his Throne,
'bur Co- the private Palace of ate Mon.;.i.r.ch, the
tales of their distress—while, 'in many emstenres,
the acts of personal benuty-elid.not transpire, hut
wite- nevertheless sufficient- tereinipaie even the
great tomis'-wliich the King eias supposed,thy
t.:44;;;3;C:4044-appliedsto-hins. ler rel tele t wpm-cell', it
would he ;syeil that the' Soyeeetgn could have at
no time ani,-eXt-ravagant----trccessroirof datigeroosly
disposa ole filiTarked upon the
appoinfiftenf'of- Cononissiotiets iu mb'e year 1811,
spoke of Hreirecessiun laneed pro-
perty as by no means considerable, and endeavour.
cd to show that theee.was no groefitl'Or Parliament
e.x.erein.a spirit of jealous euperviaionewieisseeerepard
to the settlements of the Privy Purse and CiVA,List,
Ir was'not, ime said, to 'be supposed (het Seeli ,urttls
could become 11.angerous to the country byx las ?rig.
ambitiously disposed of, for there. never did.r.ist
a period in the history of thi• country when
public 'characters were to. free' 'as at pl'eseist,
.troth taint and imputation. The proposal' for
a minote inquiey,, he cot, tended, c‘,..0..tr0t -be
Complete_ unless the jealousy of, Pailiateent
extended, to a scrutinizing exarninatioim 'Of the
Privy Purse thet D, }Martinets( was nett to be
..differently treeted trout the others. As -to, the
argemnent for inquiry founded upon the coin.
mencement of a 1-6;4o—there was nothing in it.
There' was no instance of a' reign' conimeneing
with any such inquiry ; mhat was not, however,
to prevent Petliement, if it saw cause ; but then
such cause should he' shown, and it at any
time it were made 01E, though in time middle of
a trip, inquiry would be advisable. Such was
the 'case in the year 1782, when, on the ptoposi.
lion of Mr. Burke, the Civil List was uewly mo.
deflect in all its arrangements.-4 clab,ifii: • on
adopted when there had been before contusion, and
sepera:e established whet e nu re-
sponsibility previously existed. That creation of
'order and regodarity, and that classifying of the
affairs of mhe Royal household, took'pla,e not at
time commencement of the !reign, but woes it
was now,,tiilslif.:tweuty years old. At any time,
indeed , wh. n't here appFa'rcd io tie act nal prolusion,
or when there was a protestoon 'trout .rtme.Tisione,
that its tunds.were falling short , ben would be the
time..for selve.ce inquiry. That .was trot toe ease
• now, emeil. cohld. entebe done, wiihout violeyon
-ot all preattkili.,. It the Cro%Ne indeed, wished to
inCreaseitl splendostrest ti:e.exp-ence‘ot public tits-
content;, he,woteld not thipk it right 'bat it6lsonid
be purchased'ist such a price--but the contrary was
the tact. The changeolGovernmeet from a Regency
to a Momtecbyssmight have-afforded souse grdunds
to his present Majesty to leak tor an 'seggssiup,9f
revenuei'yet-no such accession was required. The
'Crown had declated the fortiter proviSions of the
Cirii List adeqUese to its expendittue, and Was.it
therefore to be turned upon land asked wham savings
if: was enabled't O make? The Right Hon- Member
then proCeiidett'tb'make some further obserV%htions
-epoo the gracious condnct of his pre?eut Aftej:sty„
who bad cherges to bear as. King which be was
not subject to as t Regent, such ee_shelers're
Palace at Wiedsor, yet made no tut thes detharidu
upon the public 'to enable him -to'dOray them..
As to the 385,0001. which was said ao•heve, gohe
into the Pliver Purse in the last reign, teeter
they have of omits, ,it was to be observed, that'
110,0001'. had been applied to the 'efselta?ge of
certain -debts, for which Parliament had vure.l ,
50,0001. a year until they should be liptidstede—
If, therefore; that 110,0001. had trot been so ap-
plied, the 50,6001, voted by Parliament would
have been pay- ble two years longer then it ac-
tually. was. He concluded, after alluding to the
well knowii anecdote of the Prince of Conde and
the pin se of geld, by restating his conviction that