The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-06 00:00:00

under ordinary circumstances, this objection teould have •
been entitled to the greatest weight—to a weight that no.
thing could have overcome, except the persuasion, the ab-
solute conviction, that the immense importance of the
jut of the Union was one Which could yield to no minor
considerations ? Look at the later sls of our history,
when the Septennial Act *A passed. That that Act was
violation of the principle that Aiettin..rs of the Legislature
were rent into this /louse with limited powers, to dis-
charge a trust for the benefit of their constituents, it is on-
possible to deny, when we consider that by its provi-
sions they prolonged their own legislative existence.--
That the tr;:q committed to. them was violated by
this Act, Ouktirfetl its tiatui.4: Arid dut•at'Onj there
can, i think, be no doubt. in tbe tike manner, if We
take the case of the Regency, or when we refer to
another period, in which it was deemed expedient to
sacrifice heritable :jurisdictions, there was in each
case a departure from the ordinary rules of lrgisla•
ti,m and government, although, espt:!ially in the latter,
the
,mvarl)re VAA fedi leF:s hr e'e6sAi3, thAt
are now called on to pass. Let us take the case of the
Regeney—an occasion on which the Legislature, fry m
the pressure of necessity, and under peculiar circumstances,
departed from the ordinary rules of Government, and con-
. stitutel a Sovereign of the Country. T he case of the
Union is another instance of the same kind. It was

elucidated by him wiLit a res.:arc;i that W 1
greatest bonour on him, having been brought forward ode'
rally with the purest motives—namely, for the purpose of
conciliating the objections of others mote than of
satisfying his own mind, and fur the purpose of obtain-
ing the gre.it object he had in view ; but I confess I
should see with great reluctance a member of Parliament
in this House compelled upon certain, and sot
upon very tlAnite proceedings, to retire front it.—(Loud
cheers. )—I think notwithstinding, the very ingenious plan
suggested by ow Nol;le Friend it would be very
difficult to act upon the principle laid down by
heir.) If the Roman Catholics were
pe' mit ted to speak and not to votei • I cooecive
.that as Much
danger could be done b'y as clot w7rit and narty,TV4
arguing his point, and being obliged to
• ursr, from n•;vion• his vote as if he were rr-
-0 o whop.
witted to remain rind Vote t ltnf tiptilt the
it would he a departure trotii 414.
is the priniihde groiiio
i:rinfCbg !'orrard tido 4ii4aatire,,aixi oar which I. slisa
feel mysrif fortifie4 tbn- ponsitteritiT,
of other parts of this question, namely, a departure
the great principle of the removal of the disabilities of
the Roman Catholics.—((sheering.) Sir, 1 think it would
be well, in this stage of the proceeding, that I should read
the o ith which I propose as a substitute for the oaths-niiW

ill reflect r 7

adopted under circumstances of pressing necessity. The taken by Protestant members of Parliament, as well as that
Union with Ireland was a virtual abrogation of all the to Whin the Romeo Catholics will have to subscribe.--•
ordinary principles of a Government. it Was a sacri- In the first place., IC am: &ire it will be a great res
flee of an independent Legislature and an independent lief to the Roman Catholics, and n ;Aiiifitetiortl
Parliament, and nuthing could have justified such a believe to many Protestants, to hear that,' propose to rePeil
departure from principle but the necessity which called the oaths against transubstantiation with respect to sitting
for it—in the same manner great considerations of in Parliament, and holding offices generally. The decla-
State policy are those which compel us to overlook the ration against transubstantiation never was intended as
ordinary considerations of Government.—([fear, hear.)_... a religious teat; it was not applied in the reign of Queen
Sir, I shall now proceed to explain the principles upon Elis, ibetli, or in the early pnriotis of the country.--it was I
which the measures of the Government are formed, and applied in the reign of Charles 11., and treed more for
to explain also their tendency. I beg to state, in con- the purpose of the exclusion of the Roman Catholics
tiadiction to the reports which have been circulated, than any thing else ; and when the removal of the
that the measure which I have this night to propose, is exchision of the Roman Catholics is to be effected, there
the measure upon which his Mejesty'sGoverninent resolved appears to be no reason why it should be continued.--•
before the meeting of Parliament.—(Hear, hear, hear.)_ (Loud and long continued cheering.)—Sir, I propose to
In consequence of no intimation or any objection have retain the ancient oath of supremacy to be taken of
the Government altered the character of the measure, the Protestants. I hope the time teas i Vie
This is not only in eubstance but in words that very when these distinctions shall be all abolished, and n Uri
measure which, after deliberate consideration, precedinc we may expect to see the Roman Catholics also take
the meeting of Parliament, the Government had resolved to the o ith of supremacy ; but as that may not be
bring forward. Sir, I think it also proper to state that no accomplished at present, it becomes, however, necessary
other persons but the Government arc parties to this to propose a test in the oath which they likewise shill be
measure (Hear, hear, hear). It was thought much more under the necessity of taking. I propose in the
fair to parties immediately connected—even apart from oath for the Roman Catholic to relieve him from
every otherconsideration—that the measure should be pro- the necessity of taping the Oath of Allegiance
posed upon the responsibility of Government ; and with aril the Oath of Abjuration, because the oath which
respect to the concessions, as well as with respect to 1 intend to prescribe shall incorporate both. The
the restrictions the measure is calculated to bring for- oath shall be to this effect :
ward, the Government is exclusively responsible ; nor "I, A. 8., do declare, that I profess the Roman Catholic
has any other person been consulted with respect to religion." "I, A. B , do sincerely promise and swears
them in any manner whatever.—(Cheers.)---Sir, what that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to his Ma-
itre then the principle and the substance of this mea-
,testy King George I V., and will defend him to the utmost
sure ? I answer at once—the principle of the mea- of my power against all conspiracies and attempts what'
sure is the abelition of civil restrictions and the equa- ever which shall be made against his person, crown, or dig'
lity of political rights.—(Long-continued cheering.)— nity, and I will do my utmost endeavour to disclose and
There may be exceptions to be vindicated upon special make known to his Majesty, his heirs and successor's all
grounds—they will lie exceptions to the rule—but the treasons and traitorous conspiracies which may be fortified
rule and principle of the measure is the abolition of civil against him or them. Anti I do faithfully promise to
restrictions, and the equality of political rights.— (Hear, maintain, support, and defend, to the utmost of my powers
hear, hear, hear.)—From that I start—by that posi- the succession to the Crown, which succession, by an Act
tion I feel myself fortified, and I have a tight entitled—' An Act for the further limitation of the Crowns
1 think to demand the assent of the Roman Catholics to and the better securing the rights and liberties of the sub'
other measures, which I may feel it necessary to bring for- ject,' is, and stands limited to the Princess Sophia, Elec-
ward for the security of the Protestant institutions. Sir, tress of Hanover, anti the heirs of her body, being Protest'
another principle pervades this measure.—(Hear, hear.) ants; hereby utterly renouncing and abjuring anY
It is the maintenance, in fict, of the Protestant obedience or allegiance unto ant tither person claiming
religion, its doctrines, and disejpline. We have at- or pretending a right to the Crown of these realms•
tempted to reconcile these two great objects, the restore- And I do further declare, that it is not an article of
time of civil privileges, with a full and permanent se- my faith, and that I do rent•unce, reject, and abjure the
curity of the Established Church as rendered pernsa- opinion, that Princes excommunicated or deprived by
nent and inviolate, not only by the Union, but the Pope, or any authority of the Sec of Rome, may be
by the affections and respect of the people of England.— deposed or murdered by their subjects, or by any person
(Hear, beer.) Sir, this subject has been so very ably whetsoever. And Ido declare, that Ido not believe that
and indeed so very frequently discussed, that it is hardly the Pope of Rome, or any other foreign Prince, Prelate,
necessary for me to trouble the house with any details person, State, or Potentate, bath, or ought to have, anY
in respect to the state of the law affecting the Catholics temporal or civil jurisdiction; power, superiority, or Pre"
of England and Ireland. It has now undergone so many oisinence, directly or indirectly, within this realm. Ido
scars of discussion that probably the existing state of swear, that 1 will defend to the utmost of my power the
the law is familiar to most present. (Hear, hear, hear.) settlement of the property within this realm as established
It is, I have no doubt, notorious, that the position of the by the laws ; and Ido hereby disclaim, disavow, and see
many offices which the Irish Catholica are entitled to hold leinnly abjure any intention to subvert the present church
English and Irish Catholics is not the same—that the establishment, as settled by the law within this realm ;
English Catholics are not entitled to the same privileges and Ido solemnly saw n• that I never will exercise any pri°
which the Irish have, that they are not entitled to hold vilege to which lam or may become entitled to disturb
in Ireland, that they arc not enabled to exercise inany pri- or weaken the Protestant religion, or Protestant Govern-
vileges which the Irish in Ireland can. But I think no meat in this kingdom ; and I do solemnly, in the re-
doubt can 'i entertained its the mind of any man that sence of God, profess, testify, anti declare, that I do
if it be right to consider the Rotnan Catholics of one place ionise this declaration and every part thereof, in the place
entitled to certain privi:eges, there is every reason why- and ordinary sense of this oath, without any evasion,
the earns measure and an equality of privilege could be equivocation, or mental reservation whatsoever." I trust
conferred on the' Roman Catholics of Great Britain.— (continued the Right Hon. Gentleman) that as far se
(Hear, hear, bear.)--I ant quite aware, Sir, of the oaths can give ns a security, this security will be coast'
provisions of the Act of Union with Scotland, which ap- dered perfectly ample.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—lt may b'-a
pears to throw difficulties in the way of preparing the Ro- said that this oath is less binding than some others take'
man Catholic for the enjoyment of civil power. But Ido on some other occasions ; but there are clauses which I
think that the feeling and good senseof the House would ten'', would not introduce into this oath—clauses calculated
to this conclusion, that if it be consistent with the safety only to weaken the effect of the principle upon which I in'
of England and Ireland to qualify Catholics for the troduce the measure altogether ; but I have no hesitation
possession of the highest places, it would be hard to in saying that if it should he anything like the decided
turn ronnd on the Catholics of Great Britain—(Hear, prevalent opinion of the House that the introduction
hear, hear,)—in a country in which there can he no of such toms should be rnacle—(Cries of No !n° '
danger, to say there shall be one part of the kingdom in no !)—1 shall have oo objection to it. Whatever this
which the Roman Catholics is disabled from power, and measure may be considered to be, I declare I am pet
is labouring snider exclusion, which does not appy in posing it in the unaffected spirit of peace—(cheers)--a
other parts of the Empire, that part being Scotland, Ido not wish to clog it with any restrictions which
that part of all others where it is expected there will be I consider to be unnecessary or useless.—(Great cheering.)
the least danger.—(Hear, hear.)--And now, Sir, with The oath I propose is with very slight difference the oath;
respect to the laws. The gem ral impression is no proposed by Lord Plunkett anti others. I think this shooks
doubt, that the penal lairs in Ireland no longer he the only oath to be taken. It would be advisable if po'
exist, that the Penal laws have been repealed. sable to have but one oath. (Cheers.) In conformity with the
That, Sir, is not the case,—(llear, hear, and cheers)— principle on which the Bill proceeds_of course the Roman
and my urea, tire in this respect, I must say, goes Catholics should be ad ntis,ible to corporate offices in Ireland;
further than any measure that has yet been brou.:ltt they are at present excluded from them, not so much
hY
forward. I propose to repeal the Penal Laws in Ireland lass- its by rules relating to the administering of oaths on au'
and in this countt y with respect to property. That is, mission. The Roman Catholics will also be admissible gene-
Roman Catholics shall be on the same foeting with respect rally to officesconnected with the Administration of Justice'
to landed prope.ty, as his Majesty's Protestant subjects. Now they are excluded front the office of Sheriffs and from
By the law, as it at present exists, the Catholic, with re- office in the superior Courts of Jurisdiction ; but in future
gird to the posses-ion of property, is subject to the Penal I propose that Rein in Catholics shall be equally
Laws until he shall have taken three oaths, specified to all offices connected with the criminal jurisdiction with
by the Act. It continually happens from inadvertency or Protestants. With respect to military officers at present:
other cause, these Acts not being the condition of any practically, Roman Catholics of the two countries are
civil trust, ale not taken, and by the penal laws, no safety liable of the enjoyment of any. military rank except that of
is given to the Catholics. In respect to property, 1 pro- Commander-in-Chief With respect to those apprehen'
pose that the Rennin Catholics shall be at liberty to possess alone that are frequently urged 115 to the admission of Ca'
property on the same footing as any others, without tholics to hith offices in the army, it must not be forgot'
being liable to forfeiture or penal laws in case of not taking ten that we have been exposed to the danger for some One
those oaths. The next question is as to political power. I con- past, far Roman Catholics have long been capable of held-
sider it is impossible not to feel that the whole question of ing any office in the army except that of Commander-in
political power turns upon the admission of Members into Chief; and with respect to the higher description of civil
Parliament—without that, concessions will do nothing. offices, I ant aware that important considerations are con-
the Roman Catholic question will remain as trouble- nected with them. But it appears to me, that if we once
some as ever, unless we give admission to the Ro- admit them to Parliament, we also determine on their ad'
man Catholics into the two branches of the Legisla- mission to civil office. It is not safe to say that there are
tare—in truth, any other concession will be an instru- two sources of Lvour and distinction, and that Catholic°,
ment by which the mischief and trouble would be shall only be admitted to one, and that the less powerful °'
assisted. Sir, I do think it is most necessary for us to the two. I doubt the wisdom of admitting them to
settle this question now, and for ever.—(hear, hear, tical power, by the possession of seats in the most poplinr
hear.)—l would propose further, that by the Bill brand' of the Legislature, and at the same time exclude them
a
I shall bring in the Roman Catholic Peers, and fur- from office. The distinctions of office can only be acquired
titer, the Roman Catholics who may hereafter be returned from the favour of the Crown, obtained through the exhibition
to Parliament—shall be qualified to sit in this place, and of talents for office ; but not through the means of in'
in the other branch of the Administration, as any of our fluencing any particular body of men in the State. I PO:
Protestant Members. (Immense cheering.) I propose pose, therefore, to leave the avenues of ambition opt° t°
that it shall be deemed advisable to place them in all (cheers), and to capacitate Roman Catholics for the en'
that respect as the Protestant members of this House.— joyment of any office in the service of the Crown.—(ol
([fear, hear, bear.)—l confess I should doubt the pm- tinued cheering.) I now proceed to the consideration °,
licy either of the restriction of the number of Remain the exceptions with which I propose to accompany tali
Catholics to be returned, or any distinction in the general rule of equality and admissibility. I propose the,
privileges, which they should enjoy.—(Hear, hear.)—l the leading principle in which exception shall be founded,
doubt the policy of restricting Members, because, in the shall he eonnectedWith some duties or offices that are coal
first place, I think practical aid would he exceedingly dif- nected with the Es tahlished Church of the country.
ficult upon any just principles to carry that restriction should propose, at the same time, to point out the excer
into effect. Supposing your law was that not more than tions by name. They are the Lord Lieutenant or 6°'
40 Roman Catholics should be eligible to sit in Parliament vernor of Ireland for the time being, and the Lord Chi'n'
at the game time ? In the first place nothing could be cellar or Lord Keeper of the Great Seal of Great Britain'
so difficult as to determine the principle capon which the (Cheers.) With these single exceptions IT name, ITr
number should he calculated. In the next place, nothing pose to leave all offices free to all denominations of his l'es"
could be more difficult than to Apply that description to a jesty's subjects.—(Loud cheering.)—(The Right 1-111:i
general election, by which you would be enabled to decide, Gentleman then read` from a paper some of the detail
supposing a greater number than 40 were returned, which provisions of his hill, for the exclusion of Roman Ceiba;
of the forty should be eligible, and in what instances, the lies from all !natters connected with the Protestaesi
elections having taken place, they should be set aside on Church : they should not hold offices in the Ecclesiastic,
the ground of a greater number having been returned than Courts, or connected with any university, college, or eccle
was right.—(Hear, hear.) But I have an objection to piaatie,l establishment, including the schools of Et?°'
this, Sir, on a still higher grnund ; I think, if we return Westminster, and Winchester.) I propose to preserve in:
thirty or forty Roman Catholics to Parliament as the violate all local statutes and ordinances established in on!,
maximum charged with the maintenance of the Roman t versities, colleges, or schools to which Roman Catholiir;
Catholic interest, that we should be much more likely to cannot now be admitted. I propose also to retain the n
combine them, to hold them tip merely to support the i relative to the right of presentation to livings ; and More:,
Roman Catholic interests, and so far make a party interest over to enact, that if any Roman Catholic shall hold e'',l
between us, and prevent them from acting in that way ! office to which church patronage is attached, the Crow_
which would Cause their object to he the promotion of the t shall he empowered to transfer the right of presentation
Roman Catholics' interests at large, if not that corn- a Cemmission. Another provision will be, that it shs,
binedly with the interests of the Protestants. I there- ' not be lawful for any Roman Catholic in any office td
fore object to this, and propose that the Roman advise the Crown relative to the appointment to ani,
Catholics should enter this and the other House situation of dignity in the Etitahliehed Church of El,
of Parliament on the same footing as any member land or Ireland. These exceptions are necessary for 1
of the Church of England, or any Protestant Dissenter in purpose of giving setisfaction to the Protestant mind, an,
our House enters.—(Very great cheering.)—l have consi- • for maintaining secure and inviolate the Proteetantßst!,
tiered with very great attention the proposal which has been blishrnent ; they rest upon specific grounds, and do cot IP