The Sun.
London, England, 1845-05-03 00:00:00

county of Ross, to quit their dwellings.—(Hear, hear.) These
families consisted of five persons each on the average—making
a total of 2,000. The paragraph did not state what the reason
for the notice was, but suggested that it migh• be for tke pur-
pose of creating larger farms.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped the
Right Hon. Baronet would bring the atteation of the Lord
Advocate to the subject, in connexion with the proposed new
Poor-law for Scotland.—( Hear. )
Sir J. GRAHAM said he had read the s ragraph, and he
rloped that it had no foundation.—( Hear, ti: ar. ) The Lord
Advocate bad instituted an inquiry. But the Right Hon.
Gentleman must know, from his official experience, that he
( Sir J. Graham) bad no power in the matter. But, he must
say, that he could not conceive any right that any landlord, or
any number of landlords, would have to cause so much misery
—(Cheers)—and, as far as admonition on the part of the Go-
vernment could go, it should not be wanted.—(Cheers.)
Mr. F. MAULS was aware that the Right Hen. Gentleman
had no official authority, but he was sure that the declaration
of the Right Hon. Gentleman in the House of Commons
would check the disposition to effect such removals.
The remaining orders of the day having been disposed of, the
House adjourned at Twelve o'clock.

RAILWAY COMMITTEES.

(YESTERDAY.)

GLASGOW AND EDINBURGH RAILWAY (BRANCH TO

ALLOA).
Group DD.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday).
The examination of Mr. Miller was resumed by Sir T. PHILLIPS—
The line would greatly facilitate the communication between Alloa
and Linlithgow, and thence eventually to Glasgow ; and would pass
through a more densely populated neighbourhood than the Scottish
Central, which did not possess any advantages to counterbalance
these. The distance by the proposed line from Alloa to Edin-
burgh was 37 miles, and to Glasgow 31 miles. The length of the
Stirling branch is 14 miles, and the branch extending to Alloa is
421 miles.
The CHAIRMAN interrupted Sir Thomas Phillips In his examina-
tion, and stated that the Committee were anxious that the wit-
ness should proceeed to give evidence as to the engineering capa_
bilities of the proposed line.
Mr. Miller's examination was then resumed—The branch from
its junction with the Glasgow and Edinburgh Railway proceeded
under the Forth and Clyde Canal, and thence passed through the
valley of Canon, within a quarter of a mile of the iron works—
then avoiding a c.)nsiderable ridge of country, it swept
round its base and reached Stirling by a curve. There were
no tunnels, and the gradients and radii were generally favourable.
The two severest gradients were 1 in 100 and 1 in 82. The
smallest radius of a curve on the main line was 60 chains, and,
generally speaking, there was no unusual engineering difficulty.
The cost of the construction of the works would amount to
211,0001. The working expenses bad been contemplated
at 30 per cent., to be arranged in conjunction with the main line.
The mode of junction with the Edinburgh ant Glasgow Railway
is convenient, but the mode in which the two forks communicate
is not satisfactory, as it delays the transmission of traffic coming
from Edinburgh, and is in other respects inconvenient.
This witness was subjected to a long cross-examination by Mr.
HOPE on behalf of the Scottish Central Railway, but the main fea-

tures of the evidence remained unaltered.
Mr. Miller was also cross-examined in opposition, on the part
of Lord Dunmore, by Mr. Wmparxr.r, who stated that the pro-
posed line passed through more than two miles of his Lordship's
property. The evidence of the witness tended to prove that rather
less than a quarter of a mile of Lord Dunmore's estate was inter-
fered with, and the line did not pass within a mile of his mansion.
At the close of this witness's cross-examination Mr. Tasker
proved the assents and dissents for the Scottish Central Railway,
and Mr. Bligh proved the assents and dissents for the Edinburgh
and Glasgow branch lines.
Mr. Ausztri then said that the case for the Edinburgh and Glas-
gow branches was closed.
Mr. CocxenaN, on behalf of the Scottish Central Railway, rose,
and said he should be able to prove to the satisfaction of the Corn.
mittee that the landholders in the district through which
the Scottish Central line will pass had some time since
made a proposition to the Edinburgh and Glasgow Corn.
pany for a branch line to be made from their rail-
way to Stirling, but the Directors of the Edinburgh and
Glasgow Railway distinctly refused to have anything to do with
the formation of the proposed branch. And it was only until the
circulars for the construction of the Scottish Central Line had
been issued, that the Edinhurg6 and Glasgow Railway advertised
the formation of their branch. It was therefore clearly a matter of
rivalry on their part. He then proceeded to call his witnesses.
Mr. Galbraith proved that at a meeting of landowners, at which
Lord Dunmore and other influential residents were present, a pro-
position had been made by them to the Edinburgh and Glasgow
Company for a line to be made to Stirling, and that the answer
of the Directors was, that they would decline making the line,
and that no steps would hereafter be taken in making the line with-
3ut previously consulting the resident landowners.
At the close of the examination of this witness a messenger
entered, and announced that the Speaker was at prayers.
'I he Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock on Monday.

Group B.
LEEDS AND WEST RIDING JUNCTION LINE.
TRAFFIC EVIDENCE.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
On cross•examtnation, he said third-class passengers had to
porter themselves. He did not know that their bills stated that a
pig and a third-class passenger were charged the same. He never
recollected having given instructions that the third.class carriages
should be cleaned too often for fear they should become too com-
fortable. All that he knew as to the convenience of these car.
riages was, that 73 per cent. of their passengers went by these
third-class trains.gThird-class trains ran through three times a_day.
Mr. Bright, M.P. for Durham, was well acquainted with the
arrangements upon the Leeds and Manchester line, and, in his
opinion, it had always given great accommodation to the public.
No line in England conveyed so large a number of the working
classes as the Leeds and Manchester; and he was inclined to
think the third-class carriages on the line were as commodious and
comfortable as could possibly be found on any other line. With
regard to goods, all that he knew was that the Company had a
character for getting businegs if business were to be had. In
Lancashire rates of carriage had invariably fallen on the introduc-
tion of railways.
On cross-examination he confessed that he had frequently
travelled by the third class carriages, and found them in no way
objectionable.
Mr. Attain, an accountant at Manchester, had been employed
by the Leeds and West Riding Company to make traffic tables on
the route of their line. The total estimate of traffic he expected
to come on their lines was 88,7801.
On cross-examination he said lie calculated the traffic in De-
cember last.
Mr. Houldsworth, the Chairman of the Leeds and Manchester
Railway, said that company was first contemplated in 1831, but it
was not until 1836-7 that the company was sanctioned by an Act of
Parliament. The capital in that Act was stated at 1,308,0001., but
they had to go to Parliament again to get it considerably increased.
One of the tunnels at Todmorden cost about two-thirds more than
the original estimate. The original estimate for tunnelling on the
line was 58,0001., but in the progress of the work it was found
necessary to increase it nearly 60 per cent. The witness, after
detailing the difficulties the Company had to contend with
in constructing their line, went on to state that the line
was opened in 1841, and the line, taking into ac
count all the debits and credits since the commencement
of the Company, had not paid Si. par cent. on the actual
expenditure. Lord Stanley was the Chairman of the Committee
that sat on the line, and that Noble Lord reported
to the House that the estimated traffic in passengers
on the whole line would be 116,000 at 2d. per mile,
and the assumed tonnage was 112,884 tons at an average charge of
Bs. per ton. During the last year the line had carried four times
as many passengers, at an average cost of one penny four-tenths
per mile, being a saving to the public of 60,0001. per annum
en the original estimate. The tonnage had increased in
proportion, and had been carried at one-half the original
estimate, being a saving to the public of from 175,0001. to
200,0001. per annum. They had been actuated by the principles
laid down by the Board of Trade, and their lines were con-
structed not so much with a view to accommodate through
traffic, but with a view of affording railway communica-
tion to imi octant local districts. The traffic of the dis-
trict both of the West Riding and of the Leeds and Manchester
was decidedly of a local, and not a through, character. For in-
stance, on the latter line each passenger averaged only fifteen
miles, but opt the London and Birmingham line each passenger
averaged sixty-two miles. The Leeds and Manchester Com-
pany was the first that had tried the experiment of pay.
ing attention and giving an importance to thin'
class passengers. It was the interest of the Leeds
and Manchester Company to have all their engines of one
power, and the same locomotives could be made available without
the least difficulty on the West Riding lines. At present they
were 15-inch cylinder engines, but the result of their increasing
the power would depend upon future experience. Mr.
Hawksworth, the engineer, however, strongly recom-
mended them to adopt engines of 18-inch cylinders.
To refute the objection urged against their third.class accommoda-
tion, be could only state that, within the last two years, their first
class traffic had increased six per cent., their second class fifteen
per cent., and their third class 28 per cent. If Parliament
sanctioned the West Yorkshire lines, he should consider it an act
of cruelty to the Leeds and Manchester Company, seeing that Parlia-
ment had, years ago, advised them to make their line in acircuitous
route, and they only now sought for rowers to shorten the distance
between Leeds and Manchester, and to accommodate traffic which
they had always looked upon, and which the majority of the in.
habitants in the West Riding admitted strictly belonged to them.
The witness underwent a lengthened cross-examination, but his
evidence remained unshaken. He, however, admitted that their
porters were positively forbidden to attend to third-class passengers.
On re-examination, he said the Leeds and Manchester Company
were 100,0001. in debt, and applying in the present session of Par-
liament for power to get rid of other liabilities.
This closed the case for the promoters of the Leeds and West
Riding Junction line.
LEEDS AND DEWSBURY LINE.
The remaining clauses in this Bill were then agreed to, and the
Committee adjourned.

Group 0.
TRENT VALLEY RAILWAY.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yestorday.)
Mr. Williamson, a manufacturer in the Potteries, gave evidence
to the effect that the proposed line of railway would not give mull-
cient accommodation for such a populous district as the Potteries.
Mr. Samuel Alcock , manufacturer, Buralem, gave evidence to a
similar effect. He would have to go three quarters of a mile before
he could get to the proposed station at Longport. He considered
that a line from the Potteries to Macclesfield, through Congleton,
would be much better than one to Bassford.
Mr. C. J. Mason, manufacturer at Fenton, was next examined.
His manufaetory would be a mile and a half from the station at
Stoke, as proposed in the present scheme of railway. He thought
the proposed line would not give that accommodation which the
district required.
Mr. Ricardo, M.P., said that he was Chairman of the North
Staffordshire, Potteries, Churnet, and Trent Valley Junction Rail-
way. The origin of his connexion with this Company was, Mr.
Copeland coming to him, and saying that the Potteries never
yet had got a line for their accommodation, and wishing him (Mr.
Ricardo) to take some steps towards carrying out that object. He
consented to co.operate with that gentleman, and a committee of
gentlemen in the Potteries, for this purpose. This was in
February, to the best of his recollection. Overtures were in
consequence made to the Trent Valley Company, which
were favourably received. Arrangements were also made with
the Churnet Valley Company to abandon that portion of their
line from Uttoxeter and Tamworth, and to join with them in
carrying out a line from Macclesfield through the Potteries to
Colnwick. Terms were come to with the Trent
Valley line before a conclusion was made with the
Churnet Valley. The effect of this arrangement was
to get the Trent Valley line to change the route from Stafford
to Stoke, and make it from Stafford to Colnwick. It was
not only the intention of the new Company to carry out these
arrangements, but it would be impossible not to do so, tot the
Churnet Valley line had already taken steps to break up their old
aunt...l7 and to incorporate itself in the new one. He considered
this new linezould be the best one to serve the Potteries, or he
would not havelebbs it.
The CHAIRMAN—Is it intention of this new Company to
construct the line from Leek to
2
gingham ? Mr. Ricardo—Cer.
tainly. The only part proposed to
be s•-en up of the original
Churnet Valley scheme is that from Uttoxeter roworth,
The Comemars—Would not the line from
to
the Potter....
Bassford be of great service to the export trade of th
Mr. Ricardo—Any line would be of advantage to a
de.' district ?
has no line ; but certainly one to Crewe,• strict
that instead of Bassford, would
be infinitely better,

The CHAIRMAN—Is the whole of the capital subscribed? Mr.
Ricardo—Yes ; and I have no doubt that whatever may be the
future state of the money market, this line will be constructed ;
for deny line can.be made to pay, thio cu.