The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-03 00:00:00

sure that established or perpetuated them. Those who felt
strongly or, the subject were called illiberal and bigoted, and he
had often heard it said that he delighted in calling his Catholic
friends idolaters. Ile had lived many years among his Roman
Catholic brethren. He had taken an active part against them. In
1829 he exerted himself to the utmost to prevent the admission
of Roman Catholics to that and the other House. But he de-
fied any one to state that ever he uttered a harsh word against
them. All he would say was, that if they could divest them-
selves of priestly influence, he would freely trust his life and
property amongst them.—( Hear, hear.) The eyes of the
community were on their Lordships. There never was such
excitement in the,country on any other subject, and much of
the future happiness or misery of the country would depend ,
upon the decision to which they would come upon that ques-
tion. The measure had been frequently argued as if the Ro-
man
Catholics alone comprised the people of Ireland. The.
question of population had been glanced at by the Noble Duke,
and he believed that his statements were nearly correct—
namely, seven millions of Cstholics and one million and a half
of Protestants and Dissenters. Although the latter were the
minority they comprised those who had always displayed
affection and loyalty to that country, and were to
a man opposed to the repeal of the Union.
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Were they then to sacrifice
that portion of their Irish subjects to the howl of the priesthood ?
The Protestants of Ireland thought they had been betrayed,
and they now imagined that little else remained for them but
to consult for the altar and their homes. —( Hear, hear.)
They asked them to put down agitation, and in the face of
their entreaties their Lordships stood aloof and apathetic ; and
they are disgusted at the policy which was pursued. When the
day of trial arrives (and it must arrive sooner than was expected)
they would find the Prote tants of Ireland true to the consti-
tution, and arrayed on the side of England. He should now
move that, previous to the consideration of the Bill before the
*House, a Select Committee should be appointed to inquire and
report to the House what were the class-books and books of
reference used at Maynooth, and what was the nature
of the tenets and doctrines inculcated there.—( Hear, hear.)
The Bishop of LONDON, who was very indistinctly heard,
said he was labouring under indisposition, which would prevent
him troubling their Lordships at much length, but he was
anxious to express his opinion on the question before the House.
After the most mature deliberation he had determined to with-
hold his consent from the measure now introduced, regarding
it, as he did, as contradictory to and subversive of the best
principles of the Constitution, apart from all theological consi-
derations. In the latter view he would abstain from discuss-
ing the question, believing, as he did, tt at that House was a
very unbecoming arena for polemical controversy, especially
since the admission of Peers of a creed contemned by the articles
and fundamental doctrines of the Anglican Church. When,
however, he remembered the state of the Irish peasantry,
moulded into disaffection toward England and her established
religion by the teaching of their priests, and that from that
class were selected the students subsequently devoted to ascetic
instruction, he could not conceive a system more cal-
culated to create and prolong error. As to the de-
fence in favour of the measure, that it would tend
to the subsequent promotion of trade, by extending the
opportunities of stu•ty and education, he should be in-
clined to give that argument some weight, did he see the
slightest intimation of a change in the present objectionable
system. Had he perceived such a change even prospectively
held out, be should have hesitated in the record of his present
vote, hut in the absence of all such pledge or anticipation, he
believed that the increase of the present system would be but
the encouragement of error, and its furtherance the promotion
of principles repugnant to the Scriptures and the tenets of the
Established Church. The framing of the Bill was one of the
most important events in the history of this country. If the
measure were passed, it would lead to the endowment of all
religious systems, and would lead to the acknowledgement that
the State was not a competent authority to judge on the sub-
ject of religion. This, he held, was the first step to link the State
to the Roman Catholic religion. He would beg to remind their
Lordships that the original endowment of Maynooth was not
that it should be considered a grant from the State, but merely
as a perpetuation of the grants of pious individuals for the pur-
poses of Roman Catholic, education. This view of the grant
was supported by the Noble Duke (the Duke of Wellington) '
when Sir Arthur Wellesley, and by a late pious and active op-
ponent of the detestable traffic of negro slavery, Mr. Stephens.
He judged not of the feelings-ot other parties, but pledged as
he was to oppose all heresies and errors. and to call upon others
to do the same, how was it possible for him to support such an
endowment as that proposed?— (Ilear, hear.) It might be
said that by supporting the Regium Donum he was supporting
Arianism, but if Arianism was taught at the College
of Belfast, it was no part of the original understanding, whereas
Maynooth College was established avowedly to teach the doc-
trines of the Roman Catholic religion. With regard to the
grants to the Roman Catholics of Canada, which had been re-
ferred to as a parallel case, he might say that that was
not the case, as the grant to the Roman Catholics
there existed prior to the war by which those
colonies were united to the Crown of Great Britain. He
might be asked, if you will not do this for the Roman Catholics
of Ireland what will you do ? He did not feel that he was
palled upon to answer such an inquiry. He gave the greatest
credit to the pule, and honourable, and generous intentions of
the Government in bringing forward this measure. He had
no doubt that they regarded it as a measure tending to heal, in
some degree, those wounds which had so long prevented the
peace and prosperity of Ireland, and as in no way calculated to
injure the Established Church ; but he himself entertained a
very different opinion of the measure. He could easily conceive
the embarrassment of statesmen, when they cast their eyes over
the map of Ireland, how that errantry was to be governed. He
(the Bishop of London) must confess himself entirely ignorant.
—( Hear, hear.) But while he professed himself ignorant of
the right mode of governing that country in detail, he had no ,
hesitation or doubt in expressing his opinion as to what was the
right principle. It was briefly this, and with it he would con- ,
elude : in governing that or any other country, never, for any 1
consideration, do that which is clearly wrong in principle. Do I
your best to discover what is right, and then follow that up fear- 1
lessly and fully, trusting for the issue to the Supreme Disposer 1
of events, who, as all experience showed them, would never
fail to uphold his own truth.— (Hear, hear.)
The Earl of St. GERMANS thought that the Noble Lord
who had addressed the House, and the Right Reverend
Prelate who had just sat down, had altogether mistaken the
nature of the grant. If they looked at the Act of 1795,
they would find that a provision was made for the education of
the Roman Catholic priesthood. This grant, both before and
after the Union, had been annually voted. It had been voted
by every Parliament for the last fifty years, and thus, upon the
faith of successive Protestant Parliaments, and, among others,
by those in which Mr. Pitt was Prime Minister, had the grant
been conceded ; and he (Lord Germans) did not see any distinc,
tion between the grant as given heretofore, and as now proposed
to be taken from the Consolidated Fund. With regard to the
objections that had been urged against the system of educa-
tion pursued at Maynooth he would refer to the Commissioners
that had inquired into the state of education in Ireland, and
who had referred specially to Maynooth College. He stated
the course of education pursued there was not such es had
been represented, and bore evidence to the fact, that the doc-
trine of Divine allegiance and submission to the Pope in
temporal affairs was not taught in that institution.—(.Hear,
hear.) There were, no doubt, many imperfections in the
system of education pursued there, and parties who issued
from thence had taken part in the violent political proceed-
ings which had recently distracted Ireland, but this evil had
arisen from the meagre and imperfect system of education which
had prevailed there, and which the present measure proposed to
remedy. Was it a matter of astonishment that priests, placed in i
the midst of a starving population, and imperfectly educated, ,
should be led away by the wiles of agitators? The Noble 1
Earl alluded to Bishop Higgins; but Bishop Higgins was not a ,
student at Maynooth, but had been educated at Rome or
Paris. The College was established 'when Jacobinical princi- ,
pies were rife, and there were a great many. of them then—a
very considerable number indeed—inferior in rank and educa-
tion to the present class of Irish clergy, and who were called 1
" hedge priests." The Irish priests were at least attentive to ,
their flocks, and when " pain and anguish wrung the brow" of
the suffering members of their flock, the priest was fore-
most to minister to their spiritual and temporal
necessities, and to console them.—( Hear.) Was it
not worth while to make the proposed experiment and raise the
priests of Ireland in the social as well as in the literary and
scientific scale ? The Noble Earl did not suggest any remedy,
aad admitted that he knew of nothing which would be a salu-
tary and permanent means of restoring tranquillity to that
country. The Noble Earl complained of the defective state of
the Protestant Church in Ireland, but he could hardly think a
Church was deficient in a pecuniary point of view which, not
having a congregation of a million, enjoyed revenues to the
amount of 600,0001.—( Hear, hear.) He would sit down by
expressing an earnest hope that their Lordships would consent
to the second reading of the Bill with an overwhelming
majority.—(Cheers.)
The Duke of M A NCH ESTER thought Maynooth College
rather tended to keep the Irish people in a state of bondage
and ignorance. He thought it was very important to know
what the tendency of the doctrines of Maynooth really was,
for a gentleman who had been professor at Maynooth
said all the bishops of Ireland were Repealers.
And yet, strange to say, it was those same dis-
affected and disloyal men her Majesty's Government was
about to patronise. The Noble Duke read several extracts,
showing the state of crime in Ireland. ( The extracts were
taken from the charges of judges appointed by the present
Government—Baron Lefroy and others ) Six hundred and
fifty-three offences were committed in six months, Baron
Lefroy said, in one riding of Tipperary, and not a fourth of
the offenders had been brought to conviction. Such was the
moral condition of the people of Ireland. Now these were
proofs that not only did the Roman Catholics conceal crime,'
but they also connived at it. The Noble Duke then read part
of the evidence taken before the House of Lords, to show that
an Irish priest had, from the altar, denounced those who had
given evidence in a criminal case as informers and blood-
mongers. They were also told that, after the concessions of
1830, crime had greatly increased; Whiteboyism prevailed,' and,
instigatedP by their priesthood, the populace evinced a deter-
mined opposition to the payment of tithes. In 1832 assas-
sinations and murders were no longer rare, and in few in-
stances could the crimes be traced to the guilty parties • and
they knew, en unquestionable authority, that the teachers of
the people were the great movers of crime. The doctrines
taught at Maynooth all led to the consequences he had de-
tailed, because they were founded on Dens' theology.
The doctrines of the Jesuits were discountenanced in other
Catholic countries. But it was maintained in Ireland, and the
books of the Jesuits were class•books in Maynooth. This led
to the conduct of the Irish Catholic priests in giving absolution
to a man before he has made restitution. This was carried so
far iu Ireland, that it had occurred when men convicted of
Ribbonism were disposed to make restitution, the priest to
whom they confessed had interfered to prevent them.—(Hear,.
hear.)wood b
elfoothiyo,jeusdtoiocetrtionetshowperri athyanto_orothliegiet
—(Hear, hear.) Why was it that
.n
eestsnowthtoauggohvtrtrantedl"
to give them an opportunity of dispnruvinogismthewaeshamrgoerse.
It was owing to the freedom of the British .
.. h ! h
impracticable in Ireland than imcooathnsetritutcioonuntrhieisch?
left the outer man of the Romanist free, giving t e priest t e
means of making his inner man more enslaved.—( Hear, and a
laugh.) He :poke of Romanism now as a political, not as a
religions, scheme.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that there
ought to be an inquiry into the doctrines which the Govern-
ment was about to spread, before the Parliament should be
called upon to give money for the purpose. There was the
doctrine of .• venial sin," which tended to weaken the morals
of the people, and to lead them into so slight a disregard of the
rights of property, that their own temporal interests were
damaged at the same time as the interests of their
souls, and . they continued in starvation and misery
whilst their souls were endangered. The doctrine of
‘• venial sin" kept the morals of the people so low as to
deter eapital from going to the country He would occupy the
House no longer than to declare his belief, that if even all the
forfeited estates in Leland were restored to the Roman Catho-
lics, they could not be loyal to a Protestant Sovereign so long
as the bulls to which he had referred remained in force.
Lord BEAUNION T protested against tlie charges made against
his co-religionists. If the Noble Lord who spoke last believed
that such doctrines as he charged the Roman Catholics with
existed, he did not do his duty unlec-s he called upon the Par-
liament to sweep such venont from the land. If such charges
were true, toleration would be a crime. But when he listened
to the authorities which the Noble Duke and the Noble
Earl who spoke before him had made up their story from,
he found that those Noble Lords knew nothing of the doe-
trines that were taught by the Catholic Church. Many of
the dogmas charged upon the Church were the wily enuncia-
tions of statesmen for political purposes, and never had the
countenance of the Church. Many of the questions involved
in them were never for a moment entertained by the Church.
The Noble Lord might as well have quoted (tom the book of