The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-04 00:00:00

unfounded expectations, and he hoped that what whatever
course might be taken at present, nothing more might be an-
ticipated than what the measure of the Noble Lords opposite
might be calculated to effect, or otherwise the same disappoint-
ment would follow.—( Hear. )
The Earl of RIPON said that any one who listened to the
speech of his Noble Friend (Lord Melbourne), would perceive
that he had nothing to oppose to the observations of the Noble
Lords who moved and seconded the Address ; for he could find
nothing to hang his remarks upon but what fell from him
(the Earl of Ripon) in the last Session of Parliament. He was
sorry that on that occasion he did not please his Noble Friend
—( Hear, hear, and a laugh )—and still more so if he had given
his Noble Friend offence, than which nothing could be further
from his mind. But if the effect of that motion had been to
place them (the Ministers) in a situation to meet the difficul-
ties of the country, and to obtain the calm consideration of
both Houses of Parliament, he could not regret that he had
brought it forward.—( Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend said
that Ministers had found the difficulties of the country not so
very dangerous as they thought they were in August last—and
that what he (Lord. Ripon) had called a ridiculous war in
China was likely to be brought to an early and satiJactory
conclusion. Now he (Lord Ripon) never said that it was not
likely to be brought to an early and satisfactery termination.
What he had said was that it was a peculiar war, with an
enemy that would not fight.—( Hear, and a laugh.) Was it
not an extraordinary war, with a people like none other in the
world ?—and when proceedings, which were attended
with certain results in other countries were attended with none
in that.—( Hear.) Neither had he ever said that there was no
prospect of a friendly settlement with Persia.—( Hear, hoar. )
He had said the reverse. He had said that from the charac-
ter of the Envoy that settlement was likely to be effected, and
such had been the case. It was not neces-ary for him to
go into the various topics of the Address, which had been fully
discussed by his Noble Friend (the Marquis of AbercJrn)
as was acknowledged by the Noble Viscount opposite.—
( Hear.) But the Noble Viscount, in reference to one subject,
advised the Ministers to re-consider their measures. He ad-
vised them not to regard the opinions which they had expressed
or to redeem the pledges they had made. He told them not to
care if the existence of their Government depended upon the
measure in question—not to mind that, but to take his advice
and act in opposition to their own arowed opinions and the
painciples of their Administration.—( Hear, and a laugh.) But
no ; they had an example for that. —( Cheers and great
laughter.) He would not then go into any explanation or de.
tail of the course which would be taken, for an imperfect
explanation could only produce misapprehension.—( Hear. )
He agreed with the Noble Viscount that it would
be a fatal error to hold out expectations that any
measure could, in the complicated machinery of society
which England presents,—that it would be possible by any legis-
lative enactment to prevent that occasional distress which fluc-

tuations in trade inevitably produce.—( Hear, hear. )
Lord BEAUMONT said, that having expressed a very stroeg
opinion in favour of the existing Corn-laws lastsession, he could
not allow this occasion to pass without makinga few observations.
We understood the Noble Lord to say that he thought it might
be possible to make some such improvement in the law as
would enable the agriculturist to know better than at present
what he had to depend upon, and he would even admit that
the present mode of taking ,the averages was attended with
fraud; for he knew of an instance of 3,000 quarters of corn
being nominally sold to a factor at Hull, and then sent to
Wakefield, and there again nominally sold at another price,
without a single quarter ever being delivered, the object being
only toa ffect tke averages.
Lord BROUGHAM did not rise to go into any long debate
on the various topic' of the Address, but he would not do
his duty if he did not observe upon one-or two of them.
The most important was the severe distress which pre-
vailed, and which, then 'h far from universal, was so
severe that its severity could not be exaggerated, especially in
the West Riding of Yorkshire and in Lancashire. He believed
that the distress was in its present extent transitory,but he feared
he must agree with his noble Friend that in this country peri-
odical distress and reverse of fortune was almost indispensible
to the highly artificial state of society. For centuries, nay f,r
ages, this country had been manufacturing not only for itself,
bet for the world, and such a country might well apprehend a
gradual decline of some branches in which other nations would
take to supply themselves. But that was no reason
for not making every practical effort to stay the de-
cline of such manufactures, and to open other markets.
It was with most especial satisfaction that he had perceived
in her Majesty's most gracious Speech an indication that it was
the intention of Ministers to undertake a revision of the Corn-

laws—of which the worst operation was, in his opinion, that they
had a tendency to stunt the manufacturing industry of the
country, by obstructing the channels of foreign trade.—(Hear,
hear.) He had always considered that the only effectual way
of dealing with this subject, indeed the only safe way, was
to legislate for a total and complete repeal of
the Corn-laws—gradual and progressive, but entire and uncon-
ditional in its ultimate result. This was the character of the
measure he thought would alone do any good; but to correct
the conjectures or alarms of those who, on the one hand,thought
that the consequence of such a measure would be to lower
the price of food, or, on the other hand, to reduce the rent of
land, he begged to refer to the authority of a Noble Friend
who he regretted was not here now, connected with
the counties of Nottingham and Hampshire (Earl
Spencer), who moved the Address last August, and who,
in advocating the entire repeal of the Corn-laws, added his
conviction that such a measure would neither lower the price of
food nor reduce the rent of land. But his Noble Friend stated,
and in this view, at least, he (Lord B.) fully agreed,
that it would have the effect of opening new channels of foreign
trade—of staying the decline of our commerce—
of arresting the do wnfal of our manufactures.
That those effects would be the result, he had no more doubt
than that he was at that moment standing there and having
the honour of addressing their Lordships. Until he saw
what measures his Noble Friend was about to propose, he (Lord
B.) would only say he hoped his Noble Friend saw the ab-
solute necessity of relieving commerce, not by regulating the
Corn-laws alone, but by regulating generally those duties that
pressed upon consumption and production.—(Hear, hear.)
That his Noble Friend felt this necessity, he (Lord
Brougham) most earnestly and fervently hoped. That
passage in her Majesty's Speech, which spoke of our agree-
ment with the various Powers with which we are negotiating,
held forth very cheering prospects. In respect of, one subject,
the slave trade, it was necessary, in consequence of what had
recently passed, that he (Lord Brougham) should for a moment
solicit their Lordships' attention—particula-ly that of his No-
ble Friend on the Woolsack, as he (Lord B.) was going to
allude to a matter of very great importance—he meant slavery,
and an occurrence which had recently taken place, and which
at first sight might seem to have an untoward aspect on a ne-
gotiation about to be commenced, and which he hoped
would be carried on with success—he meant the
proposed negotiation with the United States of America.
He purposely abstained from enterinv on the question between
her Majesty's Government and the United States with regard
to the right of search. He thought, if the law of the question
were perfectly understood, it would at once put an end to all
negotiations on :the subject, and show how impossible it was,
whatever disposition her Majesty's Government might have,
of which, of course, he knew nothing, and of which
he could predicate nothing for them to do, for it was alleged
it was about to be demanded of them, for the law of Eng-
land clearly precluded the impossibility of their acceding to
such a demand. The case was thus, the slaves on board the
vessel in question had risen on the captain and crew in a voyage,
perfectly legal according to the laws of America ; slavery being
up to this hour recognised as a legal state. A voyage then was
lawful, from one part of America to another, with what is called
a cargo of slaves ; and we had no right so fastidiously to com-
plain of the horrors of slavery, since it was only eight or nine
years age that we, by our own laWs, must have called the
same persons on board the same ship, then an
English ship, a cargo of slaves. It did not become us to turn
round upon them, and express our horror at the
terms which we, within the last few years, would have our-
selves employed. But with this cargo of slaves from one
American port to another, the slaves had exercised that natu-
ral right which they were entitled to use, an which every
human being had a right to use, if a human being dared to
oppress them contrary to human nature. They arise against
the Captain, they seize the vessel, and they bring her into an
English port ; in the course of the scuffle a human life was
unfortunately lost ; on arriving at the port 120 slaves were landed,
and the remaining 18 of the crew were taken into custody on a
charge, partly of murder and partly of piracy. Now, if it be de-
manded to have the slaves given up, every one must see that
compliance with such a demand would be wholly unlawful.
By the laws of this country if a slave come to our shores, where
slavery does not exist, or to the West Indian colonies, where
slavery has not existed since the 31st of August, 1834, by the
law of England, when he comes there he instantly becomes
free, and whether he may have come there at his own
desire, whetber he may have been forcibly brought there,
or even if he had run away from his master, he was free by
the law of the land, and could not be demanded; and since the
Treaty of 1772 there existed no power by law in the port of
Nassau by which the Government could give up one of those
slaves, or deal with them otherwise than if they were British
subjects. A question then arises as to the eighteen who were
said to be the wrong doers, and who were charged with
the offence, incident to this loss of life. He ( Lord
Brougham) ventured to state that it was quite certain that if
any person, whether he were a British subject returning from
abroad, or whether he were an alien come into this country,
were charged with having committed an offence out of the
jurisdiction of this country, there was no power whatever,
either to seize, detain, or to give him up to any foreign Go-
vernment whatever. For example, if an Englishman iu
France should have committed an offence—even murder—and
should escape to this country—or if a Frenchman in France
should commit a like offence, and escape into this country, the
French Government might in vain apply to this country to have
that alleged murderer given up for the purpose of being tried
for the offence in that country. It was true that between this
country and France, and between this country and the United
States, there had been treaties for the mutual surrender of per-
sons charged with offences ; but there seas no law which gave
power to the Government to give them up, as the
common law of England knows no power such as that
which could make the Government give them up.
It was necessary to pass special Acts of Parliament
to enable the Government to perform that obligation; and ac-
cordingly, the Act of the 42d Geo. 111., commonly called the
Alien Act, not satisfied with the usual clause of the Alien Act,
had a clause, in the case of the American and French treaty,
arming the Government with the power to surrender, arrest,
and detain parties. He (Lord Brougham) hoped he should
be excused for entering at so great length into this subject, but
he had not said more than he deemed the urgency of the ques-
tion demanded.—( Hear, hear.) The surrender of the alas es,
of the persons charged with felony, the murder having le.en
committed beyond the territory of the British Crown, was to-
tally unallowed by law, and was consequently totally illegal.—
( Hear, hear.) Supposing a piracy takes place, a doubt might
arise whether it was a piracy or not, and then the proper
course would be to have a judicial investigation, for the pur-
pose of having the facts and the law determined. He
trusted that this accidental occurrence connected with
the capture, and se.zure,:and bringing into port of the
Creole, . when rightly considered, would not have Cie
effect of putting aside the consideration of that important
question, which his Noble Friend, to his honour, had brought
forward, and which he believed would tend greatly to the ad-
vantage of the two countries who were so highly interested in
the perpetuation of these friendly relations.—( Hear, hear. )
Before he sat down, he would add his congratulations to those
which had already been given upon the happy event that had
been announced that day to the House and the country, in
the introductory part of her Majesty's Speech.—(Hear, hear.)
He entirely agreed with the mover and seconder of the Ad-
dress in all they had said, both with respect to the loyalty
shown through the country, and the joy of their Lordships at
the increased domestic happiness of their Illustrious Sovereign.
—( Hear, hear.) He believed there never was a people who
had shown their loyalty in a more ardent manner than the
people of England had done on the birth of the Prince of Wales ;
and he (Lord Brougham) would even go further. He knew
of no people—and he had had opportunities of seeing and asso-
ciating much with the inhabitants of almost all the countries
of Europe—he had had the happiness of experiencing friend-
ship and friendly intercourse with the inhabitants of all those
countries, and ha no country which it was his fortune to visit
had he ever known a people more fond of loyalty, and more
devoted to the throne, than were the people of this country.
How did he (Lord Brougham) fortify that conclusion ? Ile
did it by referring to the past. When his Prussian Majesty
was in this country in 1814, there was, he might well remem-
ber, the same overflowing loyalty and affection. Even though
the Allied Sovereigns whom his Majesty then accompanied had
returned triumphant with the illustrious warrior in whose pre
sence he (Lord Brougham) had the honour of speaking, whose