The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-13 00:00:00

MPERIAL PARLIAM.-'
(THIS DAY.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at Twelve o'clock. opt'
On the motion of Lord G. SOMERSET the Houle
Committee on the 1111,t;0
RAILWAY CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION. - 00
Lord fi. SOMERSET said ke wished to postpone the / sie 1
which gives a railway company power to vary its Ali oal
under certain circumstances, till a future day. He of
rommodate his Right Hon. Friend the Vice.President°'
4

of Trade. ll6 ?
Mr. RICE suggested that some portion of the „abS
should be struck out, in order that the power and disc ;,d.
to a railway company to raise their tolls, should be res
Mr. HAYTER axpressed himself favourable to the , ar,
the real object of which, it would seem, was to cola?: 'or,
companies to abandon the old system of increasing
~,th Doll ,
tolls on those portions of the railway which had ("are
most in the construction, and required an additional 0,
the present workings. ol.Ars ,
Mr. W. MARTIN said that he thought it was-°t
~,,.aesS
there was an increase in the original cost of the reilt'ift
cially where there was a continual expense on a partial° iotiso
line, that there should be an increase in the charge' TO)
an instance in one line with which he was acquainted',,,
repel p
such a r se that the gradient was, he believed, I in 51300,
that particular portion of the line it was necessanf, 09
tionary engine. He did conceive that, in this insta';-k Os"
pany were entitled to an extra charge. They Inigh,t 001,i
was a particular case, and perhaps hereafter such Pa'-outlrof
might be provided for by clauses in the special Acts. „itolia
thought the matter was worthy of attention, while cellos',
general Bill, by which those special Acts were to be rdeoitsse,i
South-Eastern Company, in their negotiation with thesolilill
Company, deemed it of importance to avoid the toll, 4;
not conceive why they should now throw aside all tiolitS ifir,
they bad then used, and change their opinion upon e 19
this. There was a particular tunnel on the Brighton . 0,
the Godstone Tunnel, which had been formed 'it sat
expense. There was also a viaduct on the Bouth.ofisi
near Folkestone, some of the piers of which were oP tot.:
feet, high. Now he thought, from the expensive 1110;04
works, there ought to be some increase of charge, azt'bp /
see what pretence there was for charging 10s. on „ c-5,6,1 t
line, while the South. Eastern Company only charge° "0101
Folkestone to Reigate-a similar distance. For tesepogi"
thought that an equal mileage system was a right. tot
adopt on those lines where the company had been 1at7,417
-.. a
nary expense; but in those instances where the eSP
De P. 94
been increased, he thought that there ought also to ces 4 ,
of charge. Perhaps these particular Wien
alai
be met by clauses in the Special MetalltgeSosi
thought it requisite to draw the attention of the CO terslV
points. He thought the companies ought to be Ito.'
by the clause they would be ; for he felt the public
~10
protect themselves. t hi,*tW
Mr. TATTON EGERTON said, it appeared su, 10;
view of the case which had just been taken 'vas, in Toeas „
incorrect; but yet that something of the kind ought ' Alcosil
so as to carry the object of the clause into effeet'tio /
it would tell heavily against the lower classes. If o'4°
were obliged to adopt equal rates, they could not giee_iteflric7
able terms to third.class passengers which they all desir_7oto or'
the neighbourhood of large towns this would prove_t;oo6ooo,'
The Manchester and Leeds Company, he knew, sie"'culd „/
commodate the third class passengers, and if they g old roil
remuneration for expenditure by other mean', aid We rolt
to do so. He did not see why the principle of difereesostj,f
had been used by canals, should not be applied to r
oth Pri
Sir H. HALFORD said, that on the Peterbori:Det?„,,
a certain law the public had a right to have oxen gni' %fr.,'"
not only a short distance, but all the way to L0nde,,°,3,16;ii,,
respect to other parts of the country they were -,01 or
limitation. Now, he thought the principle which tbelolo/
on that cai.al, which was that of public convenienee' 1g
plied to railways. He should support the amendre` wo tioo ,
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET said thatch 0 SA,'
proposal. It had often been mooted in WooerConal,ri:
been very fully attended by Members of that wee
those Committees it had been decided that theliro 04
clause was a good one. By the arrangements into w...",,fiS i
Eastern Company had entered, coal was carried ehe'ro-esse:dlol
to Tunbridge than ever it had been before ; and el' rice '
that the effect had been very much to reduce the,P°
t,,1P0
Tunbridge. Passengers from London to Tunh"4bsyll
for the same rate as they were to a place ten tai':-oef KOO
so that the charge for travelling forty miles was therh3 ot91{011;
conceived was a great advantage to the public. ',.004,001)
equalise the charges ; and the mover of the amen-„ tril")0?
Member for Dover, might as well say that a Perso; "pi,
hundred miles should be carried at the same rate
,4oslol/
travelled ten. He really thought that if the CeTtes
(0,4
stirred in the matter the House would have been held De I
wards the proposition, and he hoped the clause sou.,,etlf.,,fi
Mr. BROTHERTON said that he could not do;0,21,
the principle that the public should be carrieg tb
same charge as they could travel thirty. I In as, e;O4
posing a colliery, which was largely used by the Pu id 01
thirty miles on a line of railway, and another 511050 V (
at lorty.The difference of charge between thesetW°Pkt go Of) 0
yet something in the nature of the amendment 0ug_"..10,1030,,
But to keep out a certain colliery, you put oat be
. I
the ten miles; and although it appeared to VAeoblpiel9,
the public in the first instance, it might prove - ,
~pi
geous in the end. It was absolutely necessary till'ebeew#9
warehouses in the neighbourhood of a railroad
03.004
right of sending their goods by the rail at a onif6l, 0.0.4 /
the case upon the canals. Any person cool", 2.111/
by the Bridgewater Canal upon laiYi“etsA,
rate of toll. It the railroads had the power taet,r,ool
goods, or of charging what they pleased for din`o Ivo/
line, they would have a complete monopoly, tin fif -
any man who expended his capital in buildo4.4 srer r
neighbourhood. He admitted that there would ''''ep, tl'
, i
in framing a clause to guard against the iner)°,l„ 6,1047!
thought it was desirable to take it into ccnsiderstwoi mei
Mr. DARBY agreed with the Hon. Member $ 0"0:11
there would be great difficulty in properly fralnlP:ao ) '
had been upon a Committee in which the sohjeefetSefoi
discussed, and he was of opinion that it would 8_144 o'oo
a great advantage over the public if this anteady,
An HON. MEMBILR said they could not charge "'fa
maximum. °P/4
Mr. DARBY—They could not charge leer ,e. theme/ 0. p
mum, but they would raise the toll all throng" optio ' 4 I
would vote against the amendment; but he_ 'Pell
Friend (Lord G. Somerset) would introduce a4.'e
clause, to meet the views of the Hon. Member for 0
Lord MAItSHAM was in favour of the awell,,oeillpsoo/
the Hon. Member for Dover, as it would havet"tbee •
the monopoly which railways were acquiring at,,,d1054,
cam- sf f •
canal companies. In his county, what was _ golly,"
tion" of the South-Eastern Railway with thecscoatii_di
Company was, in fact, to raise the price of the eroll?i,
instance, the price of coals had risen since ,of
railway, and such would be the case throughotn at
would support the amendment. Ptol/J
dinetey r
Mr. MORRISON also supported the amen list /4
that it would be a great protection to the Pub walsiw
would be no difficulty to the companies 10 .4 ( 101
They had almost suppressed every other Mean:: ~, ~i,
it was necessary to guard against their monopole, 11;0 ri e
Mr. ENT WISLE said that some gentle:Wl Ili
941
questions connected with this subject, deals c t
railway companies were something (Jae than tOO I
el" 01 Or
were coal-mine proprietors, or something Ile , /
tablished for the accommodation of the PlibliC.
0174"
to support the clause. , tblit 1 'ti
Mr. PLU al PTRE said that: the fact W"'',.torirail
panies, almost invariably, did act in some °the.
otos or 0
of railway shareholders ; and by the astrnissiev° ed t 9 ~,,a
the Member fur North Lancashire, he was OW 71/
amendment. i.pattiC,Oti4ll
Mr. HORSMAN said that, in the case o' - 4 Al° .4 Pr
which he was acquainted, the company charge 1; lo•iis "
Parts where they had to compete with the c 411400. alit
the rate as soon as they got out of the comport ass,',oi,lo
the amendment. ,0 0 itorfalff,
Lord G. SOMERSET defended the ciao-- 9 enel4l d ,
perfectly just for a railway company to ineres'9oofO i
/
on that portions of the line which required an
ec 0/
the working, or which had originally cost In°
in the construction. of
t/ °‘ ' • 10",
Mr. GLADSTONE admitted that the Is he es' ot 08 /
was fair from satisfactory, but still all te.en by
wo ottes
possessed the same power proposed to be glifci sot 1,001,0/
he could see no reason why future lines sh°ol be 19 01 el
I
advantage. In some cases individuals ill4b„ ofie_al al ,
ship, but on the whole he thought the preseo"pcoles- pr 4,40
Considerable inconvenience would be 004 pal", r
were to establish the principle of Dort oeSiiir,
along the whole line of railway ;id not g pill)°,
of this objection, the Hon. Gentleman volt if tile 6,
he persisted in the amendment, seeing told heted eitt ii
passed before Easter the necessity for it ^-intoolluot 01'1,
and then the same clause would he „t, Jatjar/
railway Act that came before Parlialne'.o, 0 cif '01;00
see what would be the effect of an eelialfotre° Oil/
whole line of a railway. It Might to el :011:00
that on one portion of a long ,0 seee fe
rate of charge should be reduced so ee,,otssiot'S iol;
public convenience; but did they thi Hon,' goo oarris ,
consent to make this reduction if the P+' Inv" ~ rl
were in operation ? For instance, 00 he
tral sell iro;,
mingham line it was extremely important iheoier
,00ts
17
stantly kept running between Mane sceoPlo6l9 i
and at low rates of fare, t district:o:oo9trs
-curing population of the tbel° A, i
Now, would it be fair for them to say to
caret aefreitir
to cs•' Ow,
mingham Company, "If you choose flyer g Or, il ff f
Manchester and Stockport at one halfPe_nniess e. V "is
mile, you shall not be allowed to do so,:oic opepli:o,l/
establish the same rate throughout the wu,hit or- ,1,
did that, it would seriously inconvenienoco_n'oetic, 5 //
whose avocations required them to be u.ec. 1.07,0191 01
passing between Stockport and Malloheeim tlis_, 000,17
commodate this traffic, it was nccessarl_.wes °_, / i
to increase the fares between those Pu" bear" _o'l
0°027
were better able to bear it.-(oe,ers'iy, 01 i
going to have a complete chain of raLlurgh4, 01,11,4
north of Scotland, passing through Ed"'
route Pd;10,
/
and Aberdeen. In some part of this
._,0%, se it
aware that steam-boats were constantly pelP wboll , /00
for the public convenience, that tn_,„, ielkoPlA 49
ot-
these
e railwayse s steam-boats.
a m - shouldbots. Now,be e ntahbelyedcotuol d coney:l:
dal.
roec:fer:4110:0 i
low rates of fares for carrying passe"! if thelale' 4
Aberdeen. But how could they do ti'oo -offfd t
London and Birmingham and Grand •it.t.;07.1 to
toooo//11
" You shall not enter into this coralle",„ tatikeAsiteisi?,, fro;
this low rate, unless you are prepared "mos 4014, tr ,
throughout the whole of your lines.a..wci Co p 0 Isr 111 4
mingham and Grand Junction B I.,,fie W0',1004,
agree to this proposal, and thus the PnU"the ,ternrp
tage of this railway convenience, al the
/01e,
secondary advantage of competing stn
_c $Oll 10:00 Jr.,
just mention a point which was
itioraeeoef.ogrog7
he had mentioned. As the Preeen ntsge, ,er IP r ..1
a considerable, and perhaps unfair bad
pos. "oio
.2 r
-for instance, a railway company he canej,t,,Posi or",
The .100/
but the canal company had not.
_co tali d
dor Or
wish the power to be taken away frywhica lio ib jar,
trary, they thought it an advantage toce‘s •
al 0#
themselves. Under these circums
to v.,
amendment. t lei° eat'
,ioP'setioo/,' ft
Mr. RICE said that he did net w Al
to the exact terms of the ale`-„ettil ra
the Ele" la he 00 iff Or
that the House should confirm --- won 0, /
amendment sought to stablish It 1004 it 4 ieit;ora
to strike out the word "either," a" _. ifr 0:r .
to settle the precise terms of the elaUs.....seie•oo 4 I:4 ",
/
Mr. HAWES said some railway euweos:d r,fs ,
,"
of running what were calleden_bie prTre. olOie. Id,
others issueddaily tickets, which ! 0010.010,041 r
place to another, and return for the „to , prd ,i
~.,.fltag' . r,r
no doubt that this was an ao,,oloil'lcsc;01/et4‘
but to the inhabitants of Fur fit. ;goo,"
towns it was of incalculable ben ;flow OP 0
if they adopted the amendment of
.t,"O orai64o# is
they would entirely put an end tot": eOO . A Jo.
After some further discussion, 01
.„,. . ',0,,, rtios
there appeared- , . t ' . ''',•''
For the amendment .. ******* : **** o:„.:,ict
Against it .......................
~. • 0010
rocof
Majority against it .. ; ..........
Lord MARSHAM moved the ~ed OP° 1
gether ; and a long discussion ea 9":, gifiPT
clause would be supposed to have, to
gOllO
monopoly to railway compani.V!