The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-09 00:00:00

SUN, LONDON, SATURDA_Y MORNING; JULY 0, 1842.

Would be an importation of salt meat and bacon which
would be a great relief to the working classes and the
or, and this was the reason he supported the Right
1- Baronet. In this measure the poor agricultural
011rer. would have a piece of bacon hanging up in hi-
11v to cheer him when he got home, while he now
mind on potatoes and bread. He had no hesitation in
ug that there was nothing which the country so
;eh dreaded as the return to office of the Noble Lor'
tihad brought us to our present condition.
tth respect to the statement of the Noble Lord (Lord
'tiat sinierston) whom he did not now see in his place, That
!Present Government desired Lord.Aneithuid to con-
;'`,`,lle Governor of India, he (Mr.-reseott) believed there
con-
;',,
`,`,lle
not the slightest ground for the statement. He
fro le frothat statement not from authority exactly, but
In all but authority, end he had every reason to rely
the statement which had been made to him. Other
-ra, P,'
embers had cautioned and had advised the ,ight Hon.
Gentleman at the head of the Government ; he would
tilh°,t Present, e either to caution or advise him, but having
1/" honour to sit in the same Parliament with the Right
*eau- Gentleman, he would implore him, having settled
deranged finances of the country, to devise some
measure for comforting the sons and daughters of indus-
t r), and for securing to them that reward to which they
were entitled.
u Lord PALMERSTON said that he had been given to
trerstand that, during his absence, the Hon. and
that he contradicted from authority the statement which
the late President of the Board of Control (Lord Ellen-
t I.°l- _ugh) had, soon after his accession to office, written
saord Auckland expressing a wish that he (Lord
Auuslt.land) should continue Governor-General of India.
he been rightly informed ?
NadESCOTT—Not exactly. I did not say that I
seade that statement from authority.
my
ILLrorti PALMERSTON—From all but authority.
Mere
ESCOTT—I meant to say that I had reason to
„ ere tout such was the fact ; but what I stated was
e
ehret3,
own responsibility.
1113 r PALMERSTON said that there was then au
beclUal 4ecessity for him to elain to the oe the
Lreunds on which he had madexp that statemenHt.us That
t "I'd was an extract from a private letter, addressed
an member of Lord Auckland's family in India to
b °ther member of his Lordship's family residing in
'Alglikfid, which letter was in his possession, and an ex-
irtet from which he would read to the House.—
Lear, hear.) The letter was dated Calcutta, Novem-
-20, 1841, and after expressing regret that the last
4
s7il had not brought out the appointment of Lord
f Auckland's successor, the writer proceeded to say, "In
set, it is lucky that Lord Auckland has sent home his
Positive resignation, for Lord Ellenborough writes a
Most friendly letter, wishing him very much to remain,
and stating that he has no doubt but that they shall get
'llvery well together."—(Cheers.)
sir. ESCOTT apprehended that that was no contra-
diction to his statement. (Cries of " Oh, oh," and
reuguter-) Lord Ellenborough was not the Govern-
"l"-(0h, oh, and laughter.)
Lord PALMERSTON—My statement was, that soon
bt r the accession of the present Government to office
e then President of the Board of Control had written
Lord Auckland, expressing a wish that he should con
Tue in the Government of India, and those were the
g.
Lunds on which he had made that statement.
ler. P. M. STEWART thanked his Hon. Friend (the
inoenaber for Greenock) for having brought forward his
wereti°M The first five propositions of the Government
ter undenied and undeniable.—(Hear, hear.) The in-
sta,ests of the country had never been in such a distressed
maleses at this moment. From Scotland, England,
aen, an Irland, one note f estituon had been
tip to d thee House, and noto dti
a single statement had
n made ha meet it. He had that night presented a
shrt• ficant petition to the House. It was from 1,600
te_Pwrights, a new class of complainants, showing how
the ship-building trade might be improved by opening
timber trade with all parts of the world. He depre-
cated .
vete benevolence,
disposition to discourage the practice of pri-
a for if it had not been for that the
o_te of Refrewshire and Paisley would have
,rreu still. worse than it was at present. For
erel weeks the people there had been entirely
dependent on private benevolence for support.
th
the motion of last night it was proposed to entrust
ste 'eePing of the corn chest to the Right Honour-
,„e Baronet. but Honourable Members would not
I,truss
him with that power, lest it should be abused.
Gee ertainly should divide with the Hon. Member for
,„nock on his motion, though he feared no practical
red would result from it. The question now was,
bather they should remain there uselessly discussing a
tileh e" upon which they were all agreed, or whether
teiriesYt'oh:ehirould return to their respective homes, and take
stations as members of the suffering communi-
he
,io'which they were the representatives,ie.ave to
ea,Z__vernrnent the awful responsibility of .neir own
T " •
tb:'°rd CLEMENTS bad not intended to take part in
is discussion ; but he wished the House not to be led
" error respecting the distress existing in Ireland,
Whieh 1
viks . le could assure Hon. Members was such t tit
tlmpossible for one who had not witnessed it to con-
e it.
desBORTH WICK admitted the existence and extent
tobe distress ; and as he intended to vote against the
i-teslutions of the Hon. Member for Greenock, he thought
Atlight to state the grounds on which he would do so.
tempts were made to excite pop+ .er indignation against
thee,, Present Administration for the distress of the count but it ought to be recollected that there was great
thse
tress when the Whigs were about to leave office, and
there were no attempts used o raise up against
Is the the fury and indignation of the people.
• "e distress was so great as he was sorer to admit it
Mit Was the duty of the Members of that House to
Ml!e for the purpose of ascertaining what remedy her
th,aite3,tys Government ought to apply. He contended
co
-a" tne decay in the manufacturing prosperity of the
ttl• itry had been gradual and constant p;
that the repeal
top "Le Corn-laws would not afford a sufficient remedy
leiotge evil, while it would introduce the same distress
eaupthe agricultural districts. If any Hon. Gentlemen
Prove to him that the distress would be removed
p3'ortthe re 'a of the Corn-laws, he should have his sup-
k effort which he might make to obtain their
_spew
eho„ ARSLAND thought they had relied long
ply teem teern
wit upon the British farmer, who had tOiled to sup-
ih sufficient food. The disease had gone on
eo„Leng for half measures to be effectual, and they
retae]lot afford to wait longer. for. a full and complete
eou„ u.Y. The distress which existed throughout the
tse;',,try could not be exaggerated, and the measures
tip,e",,had been taken to relieve that distress had been
alter.la `l3' unsuccessful. The Corn-laws had indeed been
(1. but the price of food had actually increased in
laeniantets. The distress was not confined to the work-
!, ug
'YAsses : those in the middle walk of life were equally
texr. town by the pressure of the times, and yet fresh
were.being imposed, when a general. alms-giving
eeen solicited for the relief of the suffering people.—
ear,hear.) There was a crisis beyond which misery
fee p' not be endured—(Hear, hear)—to that crisis, he
• the—" they were fast approaching.—(Hear, hear.) When
tr severities of winter should add to their dis-
totres, they would find the people, who had drunk
eeed°llg of the cup which still overflowed with misery,
fur:red more terrible by the knowledge of their
th er, Patience and endurance. He would not deny
icy could put down any insurrection by means of
tenalr well trained soldiery ; but such acts might be at-
ah sted with risk, and much blood would flow, which, he
fie(!uld think, would form no subject for pleasure to re-
cont quit, and yet the Right Hon. Baronet seemed to
but emplate such severities—call them not seventies,
res,tatuer mercies; for it was a mercy to put such suf-
ts4orsout of their misery.—(Hear, hear.) In the
Preseta of Stockport, which he had the honour to re-
, there were not half the rate payers that there
Ont,e,s4 few years ago ; their cottages and nouses were
secaunted ; 11.0 of their .manufacturers were ruined,
ond."e feared t,I,L were hastening to the same
Just; 'hies 1; • , Charity, but they did ask for
of tle: art 1 t • ney 'Quid et it at the hands
theiGovernmea
r, ,C 1114 i) .mtirmed the existing distress
Da/1%4;0u: the wintry. whieh was not confine.: to any
the Is,,tlr teeitli'ies out was spread far and wide over
cati„,"te zount; • He had endeavoured to trace the,
nest "I this distress.
to its source, and he could find
-e other source but the high price of corn.—(H ear,
k4le) The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her
.
114Dens,tY's Government stated the other night, that lie
tia.ritsed plentiful harvest this year, because the two lastd
the scarce ones, and it was seldom that they had
Niedeonseeutive bad harvests. This statement ho (Mr.
f e 4) did not think was a correct one, for it would
lest rind, upon investigating the prices of corn for the
deeoew Years, that they had already had four years of
disiii„ent harvests. He must repeat his opinion that the.
toeit-s3 of the country was owing to the high price or
feeitsti and from a calculation which he had made he
inster,,thnt if the rice of wheat in 1841 had been 565.
hiteeZ "665. 4d , a sum of 14,000,000/. of money would
4ptllt'een saved *to the country, which would have been
lAtiy sod Circulated amongst the tradesmen and opF-
the BOf the kingdom. They had now an alteration in
nuse„.ern-law, and to that alteration he objected as in-
,,,thet-ltrent during the long period that it was discussed in
klare ''''euse. Under the Corn. Bill of the Right Hon.
Wes net, corn would be poured into the country when it
ereePt wanted, and when there was no corn in the
This rY foreign corn remained in bond.—(Hear, hear.)
to thlvas the inevitable consequence of a sliding scale,
(]tear it.reat detriment of the agricultural interest.—
of hear )He quite agreed with the observations
they
th `tle lioneurable Member for Evesham that
tress ought to look to a remedy for this dis.
was
sin the country. Ire was happy to say that there
'Nat ,probability of a good harvest. This would be a
stem enefit to the country. He hoped that the price, in-
the 1:). ranging from 60s. to 645., as had been the case for
hepedst,oor Years, would be low during time winter. .He
was tee Right Hon. Baronet would see that the time
Theet?,ulrie for great changes in our commercial system.
,----(4,„lewas come when monopolies must be abolished.
lel to tir, hear.)i,. With regard to the tariff, he felt grate-
lttirik,. rtlght lion. Baronet for the concessions therein
lee It Ns„ a
I ere, great step towards Liberal principles.
41ouse glad the motion had been brought before tle
Was itr,," it would show the country that Parliament
lief in unmindful of the existing distress; but he was
Ihere
e`onu, habit of voting for propositions from which
Ppo
se no practical result, and he niust, therefor,.
.the motion.
133 z hi; PHILIPS said that the statement made
aerviq-1"-m• Friend the Member fur Stockport was de-
trek, gof the deepest consideration of the House. Die,
t°eseal throughout the borough of
jtithnddii:tress •It
might be greater in the districts sur-
tirel g even than in Manchester, as they were en-
the Y dePendent on the cott trade. Not only was
givnt in the (1:-t -,1
raPid strides Or • lic i%s one oi
thosethat had vuo ". " Corn-laws
ior yeafz, ihongut tAlltv me

were injurious to trade. In 1835 and 1836, when there
was a temporary prosperity, he then expressed his
opinion that the Corn-laws were at work to the in-
jury of that property.—(Hear.) What they wanted
was employment for the people, and he never was more
convinced, than at the present time, that nothing could
restore the commerce and prosperity of the country but
the a')olition of those laws. As a proof of the distress
which now existed, he would read an extract from a re-
port Tnade by Mr. Muggeridge, or. emigration ; and he
would call the particular attention of Hon. Members to
it. It was dated the 20th July, 1836. It stated the total
number of paupers transmitted to the manufacturing dis-
tricts for employment was 435 families, comprising 3,454
persons ; of these, 329 families, or 2,673 persons, ar-
rived at their destination ; 43 families refused to work
after employment had been found them. From Bedford-
shire there were 18 families ; from Buckinghamshire, 47
families
"' • Cambridgeshire, 5 families ; Dorsetshire, one
family ; Essex, 4 families ; Hampshire, 48, and Suffolk,
184 families, all sent into the manufacturing districts.
All these individuals were, at the present moment,
starving without the means of being maintained. He
would ask whether it was possible to raise, by private
charity, even one day's wages of the whole manufactur-
ing population of this country? If any disturbance was
to arise it would be impossible to make up even one
single day's wages of the manufacturng people by pri-
vate subscription. Under these circumstances it be-
hoved them to look this distress fully and fairly in the
face. He felt that nothing but a repeal of the Corn-laws
would give employment to the population of this country.
He had entertained that opinion when the question was
neither popular with one party in that House or popular
with the other. When he had first a seat in that House
hehad said that the duty on corn ought to gradually de-
cline for ten years, when the duty should cease altogether.
He was then thought Quixotic by parties who now enter-
tained the same opinions on the subject which he did.
He felt certain that the repeal of the Corn-laws would
benefit every class and interest in this country, and none
more so than the agricultural interest itself. If there
were not an improvement in the legislation of the coun-
try, such as might lead to an improvement in manufac-
tures, he was convinced that the whole bur then of the
national debt must be borne by the land, until the over-
whelming distress of the people would bear down all the
institutions of the country.

Mr. R.YORKE said Sat there had been much contra-
diction on the subject of the distress of the country—one
party declaring. that it was general and grievous, and
the other maintaining that it was partial and temporary.
He thought inquiry in such circumstances most desir-
able, and he supported the motion.
General JOHNSTON could not think it possible
that the responsible Minister of the Crown could leave
the people in their present distress without in-
quiry, or an attempt to relieve them. He
could not undertake to point out a remedy,
but something should be tried. The distress
was not exaggerated, and it would be shortly more
severe, for his experience as an agriculturist enabled him
to say that the ensuing harvest would not be an average
one. He hoped that, before the close of this debate, the
Minister of the day would hold out to the starving peo-
ple some better hopes for the- future than could be found
in any of the measures hitherto proposed.
Mr. GRIMSDITCH denied that the repeal of the
Corn-laws would afford a remedy for the distress which,
he was sorry to say, was undeniable. For the last
twenty years he had seen, with sorrow, the wages of the
artisans in Lancashire taking a downward course. He
attributed this distress to the improvement of ma-
chinery, by which human. labour was displaced, and he
feared, whilst the introduction of machinery went on, no
Corn-law regulation would prevent distress. There was
already in this country sufficient machinery to supply
with cotton goods the whole of this world and another
as large.—(Hear, and a laugh.) Much had been said
of the value of the American trade but was it not the
fact that this country was a loser by that trade ? At
the present moment America owed our manufacturers
nearly 50,000.0001., which was an important item in. the
causes of our distress. He believed that a reveal of the
Corn-laws, so far from relieving, would only-aggravate
the existing distress, inasmuch as' such a step would
bring ruin on our agricultural population ; and he be-
lieved that the number of labourers engagt d in agricul-
tural pursuits was greater than the number of those who
found employment from manufactures. He should give
his decided vote against toe motion of the Right Hon.
Memty r for Greenock.

Mr. LEADER did not wish to give a silent vote
upon a subject so interesting to his constituents, and to
the country at large, as the motion then before the
House. He was surprised at a good deal of what had
fallen from the Hon. Member who had just sat down.
The Hon. Member seemed t, think that the evils under
which the country suffereu we-e Mainly owing to ma-
chinery, and to the state of our relations with America.
The Hon. Member, however, tiO also admitted that
much of the existing distress be traced , to the
fact, that our production was so great that w•
had not markets enough to suppi.::. Now he (Mr.
Leader) believed that to that point the ques-
tion would really come. ' We had not markets
enough, because the great article of corn, which
was the main production of many other nations,
could not be received here in exchange for our manufac-
tures, That was the main source of the distress which
now pr, vaiie roughout the country ; and that system
was the reailt lass legislation. The present Govern-
ment had hod out magnificent promises for the relief of
the country ; but how ;.ad those promise been realised?
The Government ha, —troduced an Income-tax, which
would be severely telt by our entire population ; and al-
though they had effected some improvements in the
tariff, they had left materially untouched the principal
articles of subsistence. The wishes of our working
classes had been contemptuously overlooked by Minis-
ters, even when those wishes came recommended by
three millions of signatures. Again, the Government
had failed to place upon a better -pilicy our commercial
relations with other countries. The promised commer-
cial treaty with France had not only not been 4ranted,
but the French Government had, a,few days ago, imposed
an additional duty upon one of the most important of our
manufactures. While speaking upon the subject
of our commercial relations with other countries,
he wished to say a few words relative to the attack of
the sleeping Member opposite (the Hon. Gentleman
here alluded to Lord Stanley, who was at the moment
asleep. in his seat) upon the policy of the late Govern-
ment in India and in China. Now he would ask what
would foreign Governments think of a Cabinet, a leading
Member of which had thus denounced. a policy which
the Cabinet was determined to continue?—(Hear, hear.)
In his (Mr. Leader's (Aid the remedy for all the evils
under which the country suffered was to he found in
making our tam more liberal than it was at present,
and in adopting, to the fullest extent, the principles of
free trade.—(Hear, hear.) He was persuaded that un-
less they adopted such a course they would lose the
markets which they now had, and as to those they had
already lost, he was afraid it would be impossible, under
any system, to regain them. Looking to the present
state of the country, he should say that he never
expected an adequate remedy for that condition until
the people at large were fully and fairly represented in
Parliament.

Mr. C. BULLER wished to discuss this question with-
out any reference to the party questions of the day, or
any wish to impute all the blame of the present distress
to the present Government. The policy of the late Go-
vernment with regard to China and Affghanistan had
been alluded to by the Noble Lord, as partly the cause
of the present distress. But no one interest could be
named that had been affected by this policy. The war
in China had been undertaken with a view to restore the
state of things that previously existed ; and in addition
to this, the fact that the importation of tea had continued
—that tea had even fallen in price since the com-
mencement of the war, proved that it had caused
no interruption of British commerce. The introduction
of English goods into the countries watered by the Indus
had increased since the invasion of Affghanistan, and the
cultivation of tea had been, for the first time, established
in India since the system of policy of the late Govern.
ment had been commenced. , An impulse had been given
to the whole commerce of India. ,No question ought to
be so impartially approached ; there wie, anger I, !
raising untimnded hopes of relief , an ,ney might
waken vain hopes as to the power of the Legis- .
lature to afford relief. He considered the present
perii.d as a great crisis in the history of the country. The '
distress that prevailed presented different features to
what had existed at former periods: In the first place
it was more extensive—it extended from the cotton trade
to the woollen and iron trades ; it also prevailed to a ,
great extent in the South of Engand, in such towns as
Plymouth and Exeter. It had affected the Metropolis.
Notwithstanding the brilliant appearance of the season,
and the number of carriages that were to be seen in their
public places, he believed that no season bad had so lit-',
tle effect on the revival of trade as the present.
one. He might take as a criterion, the state of the
bookselling business, which was in a state of unprece-
dented depression. The Bight Hon. Baronet had used
an unsound argument, when he referred to the increased
import of cotton, and the activity of their manufac-
turers. This, he thought, was the most alarming fea-
ture of all. It proved that the manufacturers were re-
sorting to small profits on large quantities of goods, in
order to make up for the decrease of profit on the annual
amount of production. There never- was . a pe-
riod when the people were more ready to work.
The cause of their distress was entirely the want of a
market for their manufactures. And how could they
raise a market for their produce ? The want of a
market arose from their absurd system of commercial
'policy. They expected to be - able to carry on a one-
sided trade. Let them resort to the principles of fair
barter—let others gain by them, if they expected to gain
by others. The object of legislation with regard to
corn, was, in the beautiful language of the Paymaster
of the Forces, to keep the country gentlemen in
their present position.—(Hear, hear.) The introduction
of the tariff was made in an admirable speech ; the prin-
ciples laid down in that speceb were the consistent prin-
ciples of tree trade ; but those principles were most in-
consistently carried out in the tariff. He believed that
speech was made not only for that tariff, but for the
future one, It seemed to him that the tariff was most
ingeniously contrived to steer clear of every one of the
great articles used in the ponsuinption of the people.
(Hear.) Be would mention the articles? to show that
the people could derive no advantage from the aitPr-
tions, Nothing' was done for sugar, bread, cheese,
butter, malt, tea i OP gpffee there was a reduction—he
find it opt— of 2d. a pound.
hooipie soapd the
candles there was no rgduPaPill Mg iff
anpd* li
short,. like all the reductions of the tariff together, there
was no one great article of consumption reduced in
price, Jven the reduction on ,meat was only made
under the sOlPfl 491,9yance of the Right Hon. Baronet
P
that no meat eottla possiblyhe iPPPorPd and the reduc-
tion, in this case would 110 `pelf.q ti•.4eiess.
There was a second mode, in whichit was said that tlie
iountry u, slit be rclif.v,/, L.:v,i %', k means of a wide
~pread system ofentigration. W hat had the Government
done iti the wary apron3pOpp PEA, iiii7.‘, 49. a ? No. Govern-

ment had done less to promote emigration. Another
mode which was suggested was the relaxation of the
Poor-laws. The Government had very properly refused
to accede to that suggestion, and turn the country into
a country of paupers. Another mode by which it was
pro;..osed to relieve the distress was the granting a mil-
lion of money ; that also had been refused. 'What
remedy, then, had been devised for the distresses of the
people ? Why, in point of fact, the Parliament would
break up without any practical remedy being adopted.
The Right Honourable Baronet admitted that dis-
tress existed at the time he came into power, but
he then said that that distress 'was yielding to the acces-
sion of a Conservative Government. When that state-
ment was refuted he still held out hopes to the country
of a revival of commerce and manufactures. In the
spring the Right Hon. Baronet came down and confessed
that his hopes had been disappointed. There was nothing
but a general admission of distress ; nothing was pro-
posed for its removal. The Right Hon. Baronet had
complimented the people upon their patisnce—his eulogy
was not more than was deserved ; but there was one
thing which tended to infuriate the people, and that was
the notion that their misfortunes arose, not from Provi-
dence, but from the selfishness of the Legislature.—
(Hear, hear.) The impresion of the people was, that
their distress arose not from the visitations of Providence,
but from the selfishness of those who were entrusted with
power. The people were beginning to think that it was
better to fly to evils they knew not of than to endure
those which they now experienced. Every day they
were giving an argument to those who would shake the
institutions of the country by their present legislation.
He hoped there were some Hon. Gentlemen opposite,
who would not be so bound by party interests but that
they would yield to the cry of distress. There was one
at least, who would feel his responsibility at the present
time—he alluded to the Right Hon. Baronet, the Mem-
ber for Tamworth. The Right Hon. Baronet might
rely upon national feeling to elevate him above party
considerations.—(Hear, hear.) He believed the Right
Hon. Baronet had an anxious desire to use his power for
the good of his country. He believed that his views
were more enlightened than those which he professed ;
but the great question was, whether the Right Hon. Ba-
ronet would use his power for the benefit of his country?
He knew not whether the Right Hon. Baronet would
become the Minister of the nation, or whether he would
persevere in the miserable course which was consistent
with the means by which his party obtained power, and
be the agent of that destruction in which they threatened
to involve the country.
Mr. EWART contended that the rspeal 'of the
Corn-laws was absolutely necessary to secure
the peace and prosperity of the country. It
would behove us to encourage free trade at this parti-
cular crisis with America. With respect to the present
position of the Right Hon. Baronet, he thought that po-
sition was upon a sliding scale. The impetus which free
trade had received from the measures lately adopted by
the Right Hon. Baronet, must go on in the course which
he bad begun, and free trade must ultimately prosper.
If the change in the commercial code which was now
sought by the
.people, was not in time granted to them,
it would be ultimately effected by political convulsions,
in a manner which none would have reason to regret
more than Hon. Gentlemen opposite.
Mr. COBDEN, from the silence with which the state-
ments of the distress now prevalent in the country were
received by the House, entertained very serious doubts
as to Hon. Gentlemen believing the present condition of
the country to be as wretched as it really was. The
government lent themselves to that persuasion. The
Right Hon. Baronet did not himself sufficiently acknow-
ledge the existing distress. He had merely admitted
the distress in the cotton manufacturing districts, which
the Right lion. Baronet seemed to attribute to the in-
troduction of machinery. He (Mr. Cobden) denied that
the introduction of machinery ever threw. men out of
employment. It was a fallacy to say that theintroduc-
don of machinery caused distress, by throwing men out
of employment. Let them take the cotton trade as a
proof of his doctrine. In the year 1767, when Ark-
wright perfected the spinning frame, there were no more
than 13,000 persons employed in that trade in this coun-
try. At the present period the number -employed
amounted to if millions. There was an instance of an
increase in the number of operatives employed in conse-
quence of the invention and application of machinery to
manufactures. In agriculture there was no one case of
great improvement in machinery, and yet an increased
number of labourers was not employed in that occu-
pation. On the contrary, those labourers flocked
into the towns where machinery was used for
the purpose of obtaining employment. It was
unworthy, then, in the Prime Minister, -to pander
to the prejuices of the people, by thus attributing the
distress to the use of machinery. He did not complain
of the Hon. Member for Macclesfield propounding such
doctrines, for, in doing so, he was but following his vo-
cation. Then they talked . of over-production. Let
them analyse what was meant by over-production.
Why, it meant merely too much industry. There was
a charge to bring against a nation. But why did distress
arise from over-production, as it was called ? It was,
because we lost sight if the science which taught the
proper distribution of we- th—it was because they lost
sight of the truth of po.. !.sal economy. that their
population was so wretched. All that he (Mr.
Cobden) asked was, that they would give employ-
ment some way or other to the people. To return
to the argument relative to machinery. Let them go to
districts where machinery was not improved these 200
yearsto :he Midland Counties. He called on the Hon.
Member for s; ottinghamshire to tell them what was the
condition of that county. There were there no improve-
ments in machinery—no steam—they had inventions of
240 years ago, and) t what was the state. of Notting-
hamshire ? The Right Hon. Baronet the Seeretary for
the Home Department had not attributed the distress in
Paisley to the manufacture of stockings. But let them
take Nottinghamshire, against which no such charge
could be brought, where the plcugh now used was on the
model of that used by Cincinnatus and yet in that dis-
trict the distress was appalling. In Hinckley, in Leices-
tershire, out of 1,500 stocking frames only, twenty
were employed. Before Parliament met again many
of our towns would be given over to pauperism,
and their inhabitants must be fed from the poor-houses.
The distress was general throughout the country. Let
them go to the Potteries, in Staffordshire. Why there
no improvements in machinery had been iutroduced. In
the works there the same description of wheel was now
used as that in the time of the Pharoahs ; the wheel now
used was the same as that used in the time of Moses.—
(Laughter.) Perhaps that was a. state of things would
satisfy the Hon. Member for Macclesfield, and yet there
was no district in which the distress was more severe
than in the Potteries of Staffordshire. Trade was
there depressed, and there was little. or no de-
mand for the productions of the place. Let them
next go to the mines and collieries in Staffordshire.
Much improvement had not taken place in the ma-
chinery used in the coal mines, and yet at the present
moment there were no less than 25,000 men wanting
• employment in the coal districts of Staffordshire.
Go to the glass-blowing in Stourbridge and Warrington,
and the distress is the same.—(Hear, hear.) The Right
Hon. Baronet said " Hear, hear." Why then did the
Right lion. Baronet pander to the vulgar prejudices
about machinery ?—(Hear, hear.) He could tell him
that the tail-end of his party had been lifted up upon
thlit prejudice;—(Cheers.) He knew men and women to
be subsisting ©n boiled nettles.--( hear, hear.) Nay,
more, he knew that the putrid carcass of a cow was dug
up in the neighbourhood. of Brous oh.) He
understood by that groan that t was not believed. He
did not wonder at it .ear. hear.) But he wrote
to a schoolmaster, a respectable man, whom he knew,
to tell him if it was true, ann ne desired him to have it
attested by others. Now he had that document in his
possession.—(Hear. hear.) And such was the effluvia
that a part of the carcass had to be re-buried.—(llear.)
In Akington also a dead calf was dug up by the people.—
(Hear, hear.) They did not believe these things. It
they did, could they sit there without applying a remedy:
—(Cheers.) Yes, the people of England, to their credit,
would rather subsist on such food than deprive them-
selves of their liberty by going into the poor-house.—
(Cheers.) Ile did not want to introduce the Corn-laws
into the debate if they gave him a better remedy.—.
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, the Member for Lanca-
shire, ought to have some sympathy for the place he re-
presented. _ Bur what .did he say last night? He said
that America sent over two millions of goods
more than she 'took back. Did America then
send over 2,000,0004 wort?" of goods without getting
anything back? The Noble Lord ought to know that
foreign trade consisted in nothing but barter.—(Hear,
hear.) He was often surprised at the ignorance dis-
played by the Noble Lord on practical subjects.—(A
laugh.) Possessed of a clear and vigorous intellect, he
was bound to make himself better acquainted with sub-
jects
of a practical nature, which, however distasteful,
Noble Lords and Hon. Gentlemen of a certain education
must learn, because such were the subjects that must
now come before them.—(Hear, hear.) But on such
subjects the Noble Lord was profoundly ignorant.—
(Laughter)—and he could not but think the Right Hon.
Baronet exercisi d a sound discretion in speaking- for
him on sLch subjects.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) But
he believed if the Corn-laws were repealed that the
same post which would convey the intelligence would
give revived energy to the sinking trade.—(Hear, hear.)
He knew of no other means by which it could be done.
What happened a few days ago in Stockport ? The
distress was so extensive and alarming that the Mayor
said he would not be responsible for the consequence.—
(Hear, hear.) He did not mean to say the masses would
pull down their palaces, but they were drifting on to
confusion without rudder or compass.—(Loud cheers.)
They may talk of the military, but the military would
not avail them.—(Hear, hear.) Would they put an end
to the distress ?—(Hear, hear.) What could they do
for the poorer inhabitants of Stockport ? The military
would not avail them.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The people
would not break out unless they were actually starving
—unless the poor-rates failed them.—(Hear, hear.) He
did not wish that anything should be misconstrued.
But if they perished, their deaths would be at
the door of the Government. Englishmen ought
net be allowed to starve, and they would not suffer
themselves to starve.—(Hear, hear.) At the close of
the Session Hon. Members opposite might go to the Con-
tinent and to the rural districts, but what were they
going to do with them ?—(Hear, hear, hear.) They
must answer that tpiestion.—(Cheers.) The people
of Stoapprt Fame to them with clean hands. Mr. Twisel-
ton, the Aisistant Pope-le se Commissioner, speka of the
people there in high terms for their willingness to work
and their unwillingness to have paupers amongst theM:.
hear.) They wanted- not charity nor an
alteration Of the PeOr-leYv—afpßa 4PanFlmt they
wanted the means to obtain work.—(tiear, hear.) ttey
wanted to be allowed to live by their industrious hands.
—(Hear.) They waniee. alone.—(Cheers.)
Whatever befell them lay at the door of the
floiesngfenF ttit Tioptie.7-jliectr, hear.)
They could not o thiployrneiii at+home'; the pest
workmen were going abroad, and leaving t,hei-wbrst
behind them. They were going to the western countries

to work the machinery and d coal mines of America,
where bituminous coal was to be got, for he saw it
himself, for Id. a bushel. They were not going by tens
and hundreds to teach others, but they were going in
thousands to live.—(Cheers..) They were sowing seeds
broad cast over the great Western continent which
would grow up a better crop.—(Loud cheers.) There
was nothing like it since the revocation of the edict of
Nantes, and the dispersion ofartists by the Duke of Alva
from Belgium.—(Cheers.) For himself he did not look
at this question with party :views. When he came into
that House he looked at the Noble Lord the Mem-
ber for London as the leader of the Liberal party,
but he was as little disposed to join him as the Right
Hon. Baronet when he did not take the right course.—
(Hear, hear.) He believed he voted against him four
out of five times. Therefore, he had no party spirit in
the matter, but he insisted on some measures, and he
would take advantage of all the forms of the House to get
relief. lie confessed he- "did not think any rational
man ought to envy the position of the Right lion. Baro-
net.—(ffear.) He gave him credit for the difficulties
with which he was surrounded.—(Hear. hear.) He
made no opposition to him as an individual— (Hear,
hear)---but again he said this question must be met with-
out quibbling about machinery, and something must be
done before they separated this session.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. FERRAND was surprised that the Hon. Member
for Greenock had brotight forward the present motion, as
nothing could result from it but a grant of money. The
shopkeeper would tell them that the cause of the distress
was the truck system and the frond in manufactures ;
which fraud had been carried to such an extent, that the
London shopkeepers did not dare to admit to their cus-
tomers that they procured their goods from Manchester.
—(A laugh.) The manufacturers should recollect that
their best market was in the agricultural districts. An-
other cause of the distress was that capital alone was
protected, and labour starved. The working classes
asked for protection for their labour. It was the duty
of Government to legislate so that every man should be
protected, and no Government could long hold the reins
of power which did not make protection the polar star of
its legislation.
Mr: VILLIERS in listening to all that had fallen
from the Hon. Member for Macclesfield, and the Hon.
Member for Knaresborough, had only heard what had
already been said by those who had preceded them, by
the Ministers of the Crown on a former evening, and
those were the only reasons-that had been given for re-
fusing to take into consideration- the cause of the dis-
tresses of the country. He hoped the people would read
those speeches, and remember that those were the only
reasons that had been given .for the shutting the door of
the House in their faces, and refusing any inquiry into
their distresses. The lion. Member for Stockport had
said that, from the apathy exhibited by the Government
and by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, he did not believe that
they thought that distress wa; really existing, which, in
words, they seemed inclined to admit. He differed
in opinion on that point from his Honourable
Friend. He thought they were perfectly aware and
believed in the existence of the distress, but they also
,believed that the people would be quiet—that they had
no reason to be afraid—(Cheers)—and on that ground
alone they acted.—(Cheers.) The only question they
asked was, Are the people. quiet ? = (Cheering and
counter-cheering.) God grant they might continue
quiet—(Cheers)—but the House should recollect that
there was a point beyond which human endurance
could not go—(Cheers)—and every hour brought fresh
accounts from the country calculated to create the
deepest alarm.—(Hear, hear.) If the present motion had
no other merit, it had at least afforded an opportunity to
the Government—had called-upon it to state its views as to
the present condition of the people, what was its opinion
as to the causes of the distress under which the people
were suffering, and what were the prospects of the future.
It was the duty of a Government to state its opinions on
these subjects, either to afford relief, or to state at once
that it could not do so. Now he would ask if any-
thing had fallen from any Minister of the Crown, which
ought to satisfy the people that ther condition was in-
evitable?—(Hear, hear.) `Would what had been stated
by the Ministers satisfy the people ? Would they be
satisfied with a few phrases of sympathy—(Cheers)—and
a cowardly sneer at machinery—(Loud cheers)—without
the boldness openly to denounce it?—(Continued cheer.)
Then they were told of over-production, which meant
simply that the peeple wore too badly off to purchase
commodities. They exhausted the means of the people
by their monopolies, and then talked of over-production.
—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member for Knaresborough talked
of the home market and of the agricultural population
forming the greater portion of it—there could not be a
greater fallacy.—(Hear, from Mr. Ferrand.) Did the
Hon. Gentleman mean to say that the great proportion
of the population of the country was agricultural?—
(Hear, hear, from Mr. Ferrand.) The Hon. Gentleman
might make statements of that sort in the House, but he
had really, much better go and inform himself on the sub-
ject. If he would look at the official returns of the census
he would find that whereas in 1811 the agricultural po-
pulation was in the ratio of two to one as compared
with the rest of tha community, in 1831 the ratio
had been precisely reversed, and the agricultural popu-
lation only bore the proportion of one to two.—(Hear.)
The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ferrand), who pretended
that he represented the working classes, stated that
those classes did not wish for a repeal of the Corn- lime.
But let it be remembered, that upwards of two millions
of our population had petitioned for a repeal of the
Corn-laws, and upwards of three millions had petitioned
for a -shange in our legislative system. On each of those
questions the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Knares-
borough voted against the expressed wishes of the peo-
ple. The Hon. Gentleman appeared, on all occasions, to
think that what the people wanted was charity, and the
relief afforded in the workhcuse ; but he (Mr. Villiers)
begged to say that the Hon. Gentleman misrepresented
the English people, who did not want charity,
but a fair field ,for the exercise cf their in-
dustry, and who abhored pauperism as much as
any other class in the community. He had that day had
an interview with the Delegates of the Anti-Corn-law
League, and the unanimous feeling among those gentle-
men was, that the advocates of some remedial measure
to meet the prevailing distress, should not cease in their
efforts to press the subject on the consideration of Par-
liament, while any opportunity of doing so was offered.
As an instance of the state in which the country was now
plunged, he would; refer to the case of Bilston and its
neighbourhood, containing 700,000 souls, now left almost
totally without employment, and involved in the deepest
distress. It was the belief of these men that
all the evils under which they suffered might
be remedied, if the Corn-laws were repealed,
and the markets of the world thrown open
for their productions in exchange for articles of provi-
sion. He would refer to the statistics of the United
States in proof of the capabilities which that country
possessed of supplying us with food, for the purpose of
showing that if we had a free trade with the United
States all the privations which our people now endure
would cease. A gentleman in Liverpool had lately re-
ceived a letter from a correspondent in America, in which
the writer stated that the opening of the Erie Canal
would enable the agricultural produce of a country com-
prising 90,000 square miles to enter for the first time the
port of New York; and again the State of Ohio contained
4,000 square miles of good soil ; so that in all there were
on the United States side', of te Great Lakes, nearly
100,000 square miles from which wheat was- now
sent to New York, but from which not one
bushel could have been sent in the year 1830.
This correspondent also stated that being unable to ex-
change their corn for our manufactures, they were be-
ginning to manufacture for themselves. It was stated
also that immense tracts to the north of the Mississippi
were capable of growing corn and wheat, and that the
most distant parts of them were to be reached in twenty
days. The superiority of the, wheat grown in the west-
ern States was also worthy of notice. The duties on
importation from America had not increased for
many years at all in proportion to the increase of
the population. To America our Corn-laws were
very injurious, • and the greatest minds of the
Urn to States considered the movement going
on ti England for their abolition, as opening a grand
prospect to the people of that country. He was sorry to
detain the House with these details, but. they must re-
collect that thousands would look anxiously on the mor-
row to what had been said in the house on this ques-
tion ; and it was to console the people that ho stated
these things. England had a double interest in the
question, arising not only from the benefit she
would derive from obtaining corn from thence, but that
the British capital embarked in the public works of
America would be rendered more remunera-
tive.—(Hear, hear.) In the corn lands of America
was to be found the great resource of the people of this
country. If the present state of things continued, the
middle smd the working, classes of the nation must be-
come united in Condemning the Corn-laws. Everything
said in favour of the Corn-laws had been disproved.
High wages and good trade at home had been promised
as the effects of the Corn-laws, but these promises had
been shown' by experience to be fallacious. The peOPle
ern assment on the pre-
sentsaw that the Corn-laws caused much of their distress,
and gave none of the benefits predicted as consequent
upon them ; and yet when the operation of those laws
tinauserathiseinmg th
.
occasion, because from thepeculier manner in which
Mr. ROEBUCKp
the motion was worded,
it was impossible for him to sup-
port it; and yet, on the other hand, knowing well the in-
knowing also that they must, of necessity,
leans whether any portion of the distress to which the
rlcfe of food,, they were going to con-
elt some
barr
tentions of the Hon. Member o brought it forward ;
motion referred could be remedied by legislation, he
felt unable to vote against it. He thought it of import-
ance to consider what would be tho conduct of gentle-
men opposite, but particularly of Ministers, if this pro.
position of the Hon. Member for Greenock were assented
to by them. That proposition- pledged the Ministers
of the Crown to provide sustenance and work for the
poor. It was a proposition which appeared to him so
fraught with mischief that he would not, in any shape
whatever, be a party to passing those resolutions. If
the Right Honourable Baronet acceded to it he
would show himself unfit to
.be a Minister
of the Credit ; he would he drawing not only
the people but himself: He (Ur. Roebuck) thought
gentlemen on that (the Opposition) side of the House
had a right to complain that a
proposition of this sort
should be brought forward at a time when they admitted
the existence of the distress, and were
, anxious to devise
a remedy for it—a propes4l9. whichs involved them in
the diffieulty either bf SuPPPrt!ug that 'which was false
and itnproper, or of letting itgo forth-to the public that
they were opposed' to blimp( n the !patter, and were
not fiend to the people- :9: Ills Plvil part he certainly
felt that he was nbt ih a position to support the motion
of the Hon. Member for Greerck lie however.
Hell. Gentlemen OD nosi - tfreonstwer this question, not
as it-was placed iii'the paper notice before the House,
i),ef fs# Si ftiffq eofne ‘) deckled either that
night "Or 01 some
e.thei•:tinle not far. diatan't:=alear.)
Let' them throw asitio for ever all- party feelings,
consider theniselveS as brethren, met for the put,

pose of legislating for a great and large community, that
must be dear to them.--(Hear, hear.) What, then, was
the cause of the distress ? He believed it was not solely
to be attributed to the Corn-laws. But allowing to
Hon. Gentlemen all the addition to the distress which
was made from over production and the monetary dis-
tress of America, he would Still ask if the narrowing of
the markets, which was occasioned by the Corn-laws,
was not a great cause of distress? He believed, however,
that if they had the most unrestricted trade, there would
be periodic recurrences of distress.—(Hear.) There
were things which no Government could do, to procure
sustenance and labour for the people. They ought
therefore to distinguish between what could, and what
could not, be done by legislation.—(Hear, hear.) The
maintenance of a whole people could not be procured by
alms. It must come from themselves.—(Hear, hear.)
But while he admitted that the whole distress could not
be done away with, he thought it might be partially
alleviated. And how ? By an alteration of the Corn-
laws.—(Hear, hear.) That was within the grasp of the
Legislature. And if it could be shown that such a re-
sult would be produced by an alteration of the Corn-
laws, how could those who, for their own private gain,
maintained those laws, justly—to themselves such a line
of conduct ? And in, his opinion there could be little
doubt, that even besides the admission of corn into this
country, the opening of foreign markets to the produce
of their manufactures, which would be created
thereby, would operate powerfully to mitigate and re-
duce the present intense destitution of the people.
But he would say, what prevents the remedy ? lie would
be told the cold-hearted selfishness of a body of men
who, for the benefit of themselves, maintained those
laws. lie did not think that those were the motives of
the landed interest; he did not believe they were actuated
by bad motives ; but he. would tell them to look to their
starving countrymen, and to remember that it was by an
extension of trade alone that the people. could obtain
labour. Seeing those laws were admitted by all high
authorities to b mischievous, he would ask, then, if they
would maintain them? He would appeal to their pru-
dence, their generosity, and their good feeling, if it was
wise to create this difference between those who lived by
labour in land, and by labour in manufactures. He
asked them, not to repeal the laws, but to inquire—that
was the question put by the-lion Member for Greenock,
and inquiry was refused, on the ground that it would
lead to a repeal of those laws. There could be no doubt
that the Corn-laws were not the sole cause. There were
other causes. He pointed to various parts in the tariff
which required to he re-considered. There was the
Brazils ; there was the timber trade ; there were other
parts in the tariff which required reconsideration which
had produced, and were producing great mischief—mis-
chief that had increased, was increasing, and ought to
be diminished. He would take care that before they
separated the House should have an opportunity of de-
ciding distinctly on the question to which he had al-
luded—first, whether the people were in a state of
great distress ; next, whether that distress admitted of
a legislative remedy, and if so, that the House ought to
inquire what the remedy should be. Those he
believed were the points which the Hon. Member for
Greenock wished to bring clearly before the House, and
he asked that Hon. Member if he could not devise some
means of bringing those questions before the House, in
place of the ill-judged resolutions now before it. He be-
lieved that it was practicable to do so. If the Hon.
Member would allow the original question, which was,
that the Speaker do leave the chair, to be put and carried
to-night, the same question must be again put on
when the question in its amended shape could be
brought forward in such a manner as to obtain the ap-
proval of thinking people. He besought them to do their
duty as the representatives of the Commons, who were
suffering under the dreadful distress, by first inquiring
into the disease and then providing some remedy.
Mr. FIELDEN moved that the debate be adjourned.
Mr. WALLACE besought his Hon. Friend to with-
draw his motion and to let the division be taken before
the House separated. With regard to the wording of the
resolution he was not wedded to it, and in accordance
with the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Bath he
would agree to his alteration, and consent to the leaving
out the latter part of the sixth resolution or any other
part that any Hon. Member might suggest.—(Loud
laughter.) He had, before Bringing the resolution for-
went, asked the Speaker if it was competent for him to
make any alteration in the resolutions of which he had
given notice, and had been informed that it was not. A
great part of the object which he had had in view had
been obtained, for, during the discussion, the state of the
country had obtained a much greater degree of attention
than he had anticipated or expected. He hoped his Hon.
Friend would withdraw his motion and suffer the division
to come on to-night.
Mr. FIELDEN, who rose Ittnitlst cries of " adjourn "
and "go on," said that lie did not think it advisable that
the debate should be continued at that late hour of the
night. He should therefore persevere in his motion
for an adjournment.

Sir R.-PEEL said that the question had been before
the House since Friday last, and he asked, he would not
say of the courtesy, but of the justice of the House—
(Hear, hear)—that they should dispose of the subject
that evening.
The House t hen divided, and the numbers were—
For the adjournment
Against it
Majority against the adjournment
On the original motion being put,
Mr. lIINDLEY moved that the House do now
adjourn.

"Mr. CALLAGHAN seconded the motion.
The gallery was again cleared for a division.
The numbers were—
For the motion lB
Agaipst it
_

-Majority against the adjournment —195
On our return to the gallery we found
Sir R. PEEL addressing the House. He said he knew
the power which individual Members had to obstruct
the business of the House, and considering that the de-
bate had now lasted a week, he must leave to the house
and the country to judge of the propriety of such ob-
structions. He certainly thought it a duty he owed the
public to guard as far as he could against the establish-
ment of such a precedent, which in the present case was
a most unjust one.
Mr. WALLACE said that there were several Hon.
Gentlemen who had not yet spoken during the debate,
and who intended to deliver
,their sentiments on the
subject. The country would appreciate his resolutions,
and none more than the sixth one, though it did not
exactly suit the parliamentary feelings of some Hon.
Gentlemen. But out of doors it would be under-
stood. He would not withdraw his resolutions, but he
was willing to go to a division now.
Sir B. PEEL said he was willing to go on with the
debate on Tuesday, and it was not his fault that it was
not proceeded with.
Mr. FIELDEN said that he was desirous of addressing
the House on a subject of such importance, and as he
could not do so at that late hour, lie would move the ad-
journment of the debate till Monday.—(oh, oh.)
General JOHNSTON said the question was, whether
they would refuse to adjourn, for some thirty hours, in
a case where bread was asked for the people ?
Mr. ESCOTT-said (amidst loud cries of " Oh, oh !"
and " Spoke, spoke")—that the time was now come when
it would be advisable to stop such proceedings, by al-
tering the rules of the House with regard to adjourn-
ments.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. COBDEN said if any such attempt were made, he
should feel it his duty to attend in his place to defeat it,
by moving perpetual adjournments.—(Laughter.)
Strangers were ordered to withdraw and the House
divided on the question of adjournment, when there ap-
peared—
For the adjournment
Against it 209
_ _

'Majority against the adjournment —l9O
Before the gallery was opened,
The House divided on the original question, when
there appeared—
For Mr. Wallace's resolutions
Against them

49
174

Majority against the resolutions -125
Sir R. PEEL then moved that the House should re-
soh e itself pro forma into a Committee of Supply.
The House accordingly went into a Committee of
Supply, Mr. GREENE in the chair ; the Chairman im-
mediately reported progress, and obtained leave to sit
again on Monday.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of,
and the House adjourned at a Quarter to Three o'Clock.

MR. HUME AND HIS MOTION FOR
RETURNS OF THE SERVICE OF FLAG-
OFFICERS IN THE NAVY.

On Thursday, when the gallery was cleared, after the
motion for adjournment of the house (the hour then a
quarter to two o'clock) was decided, Mr. Ilume again
moved the adjournment of the debate, and the propriety
of giving the returns was strongly urged by Admiral
Dundas, Commodore Napier, and Captain Pechell. Af-
ter some time Sir Robert Peel thought proper to agree to
the adjournment of the debate, which leaves the question
open for discussion on Monday next. We are sorry to
see the old Tory course of refusing to let the House have
returns of the nature asked for by Mr. Hume, and it is
to be hoped that there are in the House a sufficient num-
ber of Members who will support him, and insist on the
information being furnished. An excuse was given by Mr.
Sydney Herbert, the Secretary to the Admiralty, that the
making out the returns would occupy so much time of
the office, that the other busineis of the Admiralty would
be incommoded ; and it is to be regretted that Mr.
Charles Wood, late Secretary to the Admiralty, sup-
ported that absurd defence, and actually voted against
the motion. We desire to explain what the nature of
the return called for by Mr. Hume was, that the country
may see the commencement of a system of secrecy in
the proceedings of the Admiralty Bnard. In the Report
of the Commissioners for inquiring into the promotons
in the Navy and Army, laid before the llcitse in 1840,
it is stated, that in order to show the extent and nature
of the promotions, of flag-officers in the navy, the Com-
missianers had directed a Return of the services of each
flag.officer to be made out and laid Wore them, to see
not only how long their names had been on the list of the
navy, but how long they had actually served the
country from whom they received their half- ay and
the table or return of services of all the thig'illeers
promoted by the two preced_ing 13revetS, as appended to
the liepqrt IRid before' the Commons' in 1840 (see page
322). 'Afr. Hume asked for a continzai(imi of the same
land of return of the services of the fiAg'officers pro-
moted a last Brevet. It was sot a new or NlkeitVl
r.etuyn o, A„r, iniagination, hat a e9ntinuatton
of the return prppqrp4 h., A
aNer of the CoreT.l'Lloners of
inquiry, and that is thg retimnqused. Commodore
Nader t 1.1:: Muse, as Mr. Hume had done, that as
every officer promoted was required to give, and actually
did give in a list of his services, the labour to complete
Hon; member for Montrose
tile return required by the
was only 0. Copy those statements,. And as the
Hon. Member offered to send his own clerk to
44. tie P°P3ll no excuse of that kind could
be admitted. It ull7 be well to explain the nature

of the Report and Return given already of all flag-offi-
cers promoted, for example up to the 28th of June,
1835, and of which a continuation was asked for.
Admiral Drummond is stated to have entered the navy
in May, 1780, and his whole service in commission is
stated to have been nine years, eleven months, one
week, and two days ; by which, the Commissioners re-
port that, after deducting, we will suppose eight years,
for his service as a boy and Midshipman (which is the
average service before promotion to be Lieutenant),
the whole service in the navy of his country of Admiral
Drummond, whose name is in the promotion of Ad-
mirals of the 221 Jtily, 1830, was under two years, and
for that two years' service he has the title of Admiral,
and the pension of a naval officer from the public, since
the year 1792, i.e. 40 years' pension for two years of
service as an officer in the navy. Is it to be wondered
at that the expenses of the country are great. when such
proceedings are allowed ?
We will give another example of the service of Admirals,
for which the rank and pensiona of the public are given.
In page 323 of the appendix to theßepert, itis stated that
Sir L. Curtis, Bart., entered the naval service on the 2d
of June, 1795 ; that he was in active service only seven
years, five months, two weeks, and two days, and if we
deduct the period of six years, that by the rules of the
service he ought to have been in the navy as a
,boy and Midshipman before he could be promoted to be
a Lieutenant, it appears by that return. that his whole
service as an officer in the navy was less than one-and-
a-half years, and for that service he has. been paid by
the public, i. e., he has been on full and half-pay for forty-
eight years for that short service of one and a half
years to the country.
Mr. Hume declared that he wanted the continuation
of the returns to enable him to bring forward the promo-
tions in the navy as an abuse of the .powers of the pre-
rogative, and a waste of public money. We shall see
' how far the refusal of Sir Robert Peel to give the in-
formation to the House will be supported by the Mem-
bers of the Commons, in the present state of the finances
especially.
The question stands adjourned ; and we trust the first
opportunity will be taken to have the return ordered.

DISTRESS IN THE COUNTRY.
MEETING OF DISSENTING MINISTERS AND
CONGREGATIONS.

Yesterday evening a meeting of the Dissenting Minis-
ters and their respective congregations, in the neighbour-
hood of the metropolis, was held in the Finsbury Circus
Chapel, for the purpose of considering the present
awful distress so general throughout the country, and
hearing the statements of several clergymen from the
provinces, relative to the facts in connection with the
distress, which came under their cognizance in their
capacity as Christian pastors. Thomas Price. Esq.,
D.D., in the Chair. The large and roomy chapel, with
its two tiers of galleries, was tilled almost to suffocation
by a most respectable audience, who seemed to manifest
the deepest sympathy and interest in the proceedings of
the meeting.
The Rev. Mr. Lows, of Forfar, after some preli-
minary observations, said that he, in conjunction with
other clergymen, some of them members of the Esta-
blished Church, had gone from door to door in the town
of Forfar for the purpose of ascertaining the real situa-
tion of the working classes there, and, as the result of
his own personal observation, he could state, that out of
a population of 1,402 families, containing 5,012 indi-
viduals, 139 were liVing on a sum averaging from 6d.
to 9d. per day ; 193 men, earning from ss. to ss. Gd. a
week ; 386 had only from 4d. to 44d. a day ; and 853
were dragging out a miserable existence on 3d. per day.
Again, there were 1,533 persens who had only 31d. to
live on during the day, whilst 169 had only the incredi-
ble sum of from three farthings to one penny to live on
during the twenty-four hours. Such was the state of
the working classes in Forfar ; but lie was also sorry to
be obliged to add that their spiritual as well as temporal
interests were affected by this, inasmuch as the people
had not the means of attending their religious ob-
servances, from the want of decent apparel. The conse-
quence of this state of things was increasing disaffection
and demoralization ; and in proof of the latter assertion
he would state that in 1836 there were only 90 com-
mittals from the criminal tribunals, while in 1841
there were 202, and of all these latter the greater num-
ber were for thefts, not of valuable articles, but of mere
eatables. The maternal instinct was as inherent in the
breast of the emaciated and pauperised mother who
nourished her child with the last life springs of an ex-
hausted frame as lit the Dechess who entrusted
her offspring to the charge of a stranger, and
supplied its void with a lap-dog.—(llear, hear.)
After some further observations, and "detailing several
cases of individual misery, with which the reports of the
proceedings of the Anti-Corn-law Delegates have
rendered the public painfully familiar, the Rev. Gentle-
man sat down amidst loud cheers.

The Rev. Mr. MASSIE, of Manchester, next rose and
sail he was grateful for having an opportunity to address
his fellow Christians of the metropolis, and more espe-
cially so when it was en behalf of the poor. It was,
scarcely necessary for him to enter upon the details of
sufferino•b which were of daily occurrence in his native
town, but still he feared that the condition of their fel-
low Christians and countrymen in the provinces, was
but little understood by their brethren in London.—
( Hear, hear.) A proposition had been made that 1,000
of the starving artisans ,of Manchester should be
enabled to come as a deputation to London by
a public subscription, and the reason why inch
a proposition was entertained was, that they
believed if the people of London were aware
of the misery and distress which pervaded the provinces,
they would not for. a moment appear so apathetic as
they had done. He knew there were many claims as
Christians upon the people of London, and therefore he
could not expect that they should come forward with
charitable contributions, nor would he desire it, for much
as he would cherish the heart of charity, he never would
encourage the feeling of dependence on eleemosynary
aid.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Noble, generous, warm-
hearted John Bull had been contrasted- with the poor
rrostrate Paddy. He gloried in his own feelings of inde-
pendence in other days, but that feeling is now fast going.
—(A Voice—" It is gone.") It was coming to the last
point, but still they should struggle to regain it, It was
not a spirit of idleness that kept the people prostrate, for
he could assure the meeting that there were thousands
in Lancashire who worked from six o'clock in the
morning until ten at night to earn 4s, a week.
" Hope deferred taaketh the heart sick I" and if a man
saw that he laboured six times 15 hours to earn 4s, as
his reward was it a wonder if he reversed the order of
the well-known sentiment, and turned his ploughshare
into a sword ? Mr. Massie then detailed several of
those heart-rending scenes of distress which render Eng-
land the scorn and pity of the civilised word ; and con-
tinued to say, that . distressing as the scenes which he
described were, they were scarcely worse than the con-
dition superinduced by those in the mid,lle classes.—
(Hear, hear.) Ho would refer as briefly as possible to
the state of the shopkeepers, such as bakers, butchers,
grocers and the like, in several parts of Lancashire.
Returns had been made to him, by which he would be
enabled to institute a comparison between the income of
this class of tradesmen in the years 1839 and 1841. The
returns related to the receipts of 13 bread and provision
dealers, 14 butchers, 10 grocers and tea-dealers, and 13
drapers, all men of the highest character and respecta,
bility. In the year 1839, their aggregate receipts
amounted to 197,7001., in 1841 they were 130,1001.,
making a difference in two years of 67,0001.,
and shortly before be came to London he had been in•
formed by these parties that their income up to this
period of 1842 was at least 15 per cent. less than what
it was at the termination of the year 1841, thus reducing
their receipts to about 110,0001. instetul 'of 197,000/., or
little more than one-half in two years. In 1839 the
poor-rates were only Is. 4d. in the pound, and he was in-
fo.:med by the overseers that this year they would be at
least 4s. The shopkeepers were coming down fast to
the level of the paupers, and he could state that many of
them in Manchester, to his own knowledge, did
not taste butchers meat during the week..—(Hear, hear.)
In the years 1835, 1836, and 1837, the average number
of cattle sold weekly in Salford was 700, while last week,
when, owing to the propitious weather, the greatest
plenty might be expected in the market, only 361 were
sold. He had been'aaked by a friend whether he con-
sidered himself Justified as a minister of religion in
mixing himself up with the angry polities of the
day, but be (Mr. Massie) would ask, could a roi-
mster of religion—that religion which exorts you
to love your fellow-man as yourself, be aware
of these facts, and abstain from joining in endea•
vouring, constitutionally, to obtain an amelioration
in the condition of the suffering people ? Let them go
to the home of the working man, and then they would
see the child perishing in 'its spring-time for want of
food, while the parent was sad, and muttering vows of
vengeance agsanst his oppressors, for to this it had
come at last. The people spoke of it openly • they
said they only wanted. leaders, and he feared that
such would Pat long be wanting. In conclusion,
he would call upon all those who were ministers
' to lose no time in • convening their brethren, and
imploring Providence to avert the evils which seem
to threaten-this country, and calm down those angry
feelings by which the masses seemed actuated, and
which, unless speedily soothed, would lead to a sanguinary
revolution.--(Loud and long continued cheering.)
Mr. GEORGE TEIOMPSON addressed the meeting in a
long and eloquent speech, in which he, stated that eight
or nine months ago those in power strenuously denied
the statements with respect to the distress of the country,
but now they had it on the anthority of the Home Secre-
ary that there was in Great Britain upwards of 1,300,000
persons dependent upon parish relief, and read several
extracts from the Right Hon. Baronet's memorable work
on Corn and Currency, which, with Mr. Thompson's
caustic observations, caused much laughter.
Amongst those present we remarked the following
Rev. Gentlemen:—Bev. J. U. Hinton, James Carlile,
Gilbert, Dr. J. P, Smith, G. Evans, J. Miram, J.
Ad: y, J, G, Vuller, J. Angus, T. Aveling, J. Raban, J.
Nellor, M. Pittan, E. Halliday, M. Pennan, Rev. J. W.
Massie, Manchester; Rev, Dr. Hough, Glasgow; M.
Lowe, Forfar Dr, King, Glasgow ; Dr. Perry, St.
Luke's, Kingsland; W. Harrison, Tottenham; Mr. Da-
hourg, Clapham ; J. H. Morgan, Stourbridge ; Mr.
Muller, Amsterdam; Mr, Ferguson, Bicester, &e. Re.
The meeting separated shortly after one o'clock.

ALF-FARTHINGS. A writer, addressing the
Master 0.1 the Mint, says—.." You have invented a new coin.
Axn have you shrunk from giving it an original name ? The
eeusequonee will be that there must be an additional column
in our tradesmen's ledgers, ' a. d. q. iq.' and an *sack may
cost Is. iq., or lid. and so on. May not this in-
convenience be avoided by the disuse of the word 4 farthing,
and by the adoption of the word 4 octave' tbr the half-
farthing? The entry or the price of the article will then he
Is. lid., or 10,11
The Right Hon; C. T. DTyncourt paired off on
Thursday night with Dr. Nicholl, in favour
of Mr. Banner.
man's motion on the Corn-laws.
Mr. Marjoribanks has paired off with Mr. Astell
from the let to the Bth instant znclusive.