The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-21 00:00:00

pected that the Hon. Members below would support it,
because it is the very measure prayed for in the Protestant
petitions from Ireland and from this country t and because
they could not oppose it without cutting from under their
feet the ground on which they have so strongly recom-
mended an acquiescence in those petitions to this House.
Sir, it is the first time that I have heard the principle in-
culcated, that a blind acquiescence in the opiuions of the
petitions presented to it was the bounden duty of the House
of Commons. That is a doctrine which has been treated
with disdain and scorn by all who have duly considered
the British Constitution, as having no foundation either in
law or in practice, as inconsistent with reason or common
sense, as taking away all the uses of the representative
system, as converting the Members of the House of Com-
mons into the deputies of small confederated demociaciee,
instead of being the free representatives of a great people,
and as re-introducing all those evils which were the curse
of antiquity, but to which the wisdom of subsequent pc-
' riods applied a rensedy. (Hear.) If, Sir, lam justified in
saying that it might have been expected that the Bill under
our consideration would receive the support of those who
have presented and advocated the petitions against the Ca-
tholic Claims, it must he unnecessary for me to add, that
it was to be expected that it would receive the support of
those who advocated the measures introduced by Govern-
ment generally. If 1 look at my Hon. Friends around
me who voted for the similar measure of 1825, I see those
whose concurrence in the present Bill was also to be cal-
culated upon. Still I allow that, as compared with the
measure of 1825, the present measure is one of harshness ;
and that it is one of those tough morsels which I have been
scarcely able to swallow. But then, again, the chance of
success on the present occasion, appears to me as much
greater than it was in 1825, as the present measure is
harsher than the measure of 1825. And what success?
Redemption for Ireland, safety for the British Empire, and
the union of all classes of his Majesty's subjects are within
sight, and, if there be faith in man, within reach. With
regard, Sir, to those who hold that the Protestant religion
is endangered by the measures now in progress, I can only
sly that I am as warmly attached to the Protestant religion
as any man—that I do not expect that they can divest
themselves of their apprehensians at the present moment,
but that I confidently look forward to the period when
they will winder at their temporary delusion, and congra-
tulate themselves on their defeat. On that subject I per-
fectly concur with my Hon. and Learned Friend (the
Member for Inverness); and I assent to every syllable
which fell from my Hon. and Learned Friend yesterday
evening, and shall always be ready to contribute my feeble,
but earnest endeavours, to carry to a triumphant termina-
tion this attempt to introduce an equality of civil rights
into Ireland, and to establish a wise Government in that
country.--(Hear.)
Lord G. BENTINCK spoke at some length, but we
were unable to hear the Noble Lord distinctly. All that
we could collect was, that he supported the proposition of
his Noble Friend, and that he was bound by all he had
witnessed, and by every consideration, to believe, that the
Right Hon. Gent. opposite (Mr. Peel) had been actuated,
in every stage of these proceedings, by the highest sense of
honour, integrity, patriotism, and a conscientious con-
viction of his doty.—(Cbeers.)
Lord HOWICK thought the measures of Government
so complete and generous, that he could not withhold his
confidence. With respect to what was immediately before
the House, he was disposed to support the Bill on its own
merits, as well as in its relation to the general measure;
but there were parts of it, which he thought might he
altered with advantage. He objected to the machinery
by which the Bill was to be enforced. The agents of great
estates would do 010 y duty in seeing duly registered the
franchises on the property Of their misters, but this would
he 'neglected by *single tee pound freeholdera. Many
votes were lost iu England by faulty assessments, and by
the neglect of entries respecting the Land Tar. In the
present Bill no effectual provisions was made against ficti-
tious and fraudulent vote. The registry of votes was not
in itself conclusive, and the proposed scrutiny would he
found practically loverative, whilst the duty assigned to
the Assistant-Barrister was itianfficient. These abjact:ons!
however', could he removed only by altering the essential
nature of the Bill. He did not think that the present
curtailment of the franchise would restrain the real ex-
pression of poplar feeling in Ireland. The elective fran-
chise in Ireland was not in the 5-,e in which it ought
to he, although he by no means thought that giving the
franchise to the lowest orders of the community was the
right way to add weight to the popular voice.
Sir ROBERT WILSON said the House had to deal
with eTae7gerated pretensions to which some concessions
must be Made. There could be no perfect benefit, no un-
alloyed good. He was always satisfied with e preponde-
rance of benefit, and he never expected a boon without
some sacrifice, The first sacrifice which the Ho=lse had
been Called on to make, was the reposing of uncontrollable
power in the hands of tt:e Lord Lieutenant of Leland.
This had been granted in the confidence that it would be
used for pacification, and not employed to harrass, insult,
or oppeese. had admired the proceedings of the
Catholic Association, and Tost of ail is their self-
dissolution at the first aspect of the improveMent` of
Irelapd. But the Association had been Sacrificed,
, becaue the ppppsition party had recommended the
principle of nsotniti cepeeasam: The ppp4•itioa irels~ he;
were now called upon to make sacrifices, 'acid he fur
one would not shrink from the duty.—(Cheers.)—
Some gentlemen had talked lightly of the evils Ireland had
suffered in 1798, but they had done so not in wantonness
and wicifedapata but in ignorance. He had been a wit-
ness of these mils, eed he or any map Iyhq lariew what
they were would be savage in antiewatieg their recurrence
withoaat horror. if this was to be the last public act of
his life, lie assured the -!.pßee that he would cheerfully give
it in favour of a measure calculated to hiring abqat the pa-
cification of Ireland.

1,,0r4 ALTUORP and Mr. 'LUNT Me together, amidst
loud cries of " turd Althorp, Lord Althorp." The
Noble Lord, however, ihhstaftly Me way, and
Mr, TRANT proceeded to address the Hoopt amidst
tha grips of " Oh, oh r and " Spoke, spoke.'? Ile was
decidedly oppo-4ed to the proposed disfranchisement of the
forty-shilling freeholders, his,cape he felt convinced that
that measure, instead of bringing about, sv,:ntld altogether
destroy the tranquillity of Ireland.—(Cries of " Oh, oh i
Ftle coughing, and cries of " Order, order.")—The
Hon. Menikair, looking up toward the gallery, expressed a
hope that the proceedipga thep going on would go forth to
the country as a warning, that upon this eAect only per-
sona who spoke upon one aide of the question could expect
a hearing.—(Lear, hear, and cries of" Go on, go on.'')—
The Hon. Itlember made a few additional observations,
but the noise and confusion in the house rendered him
altogether inaudible in the gallery,
Lord ALTHORP would shortly state the grounds upon
which he meant to give his support to the Bill; and these
veer?, the aid and assistance it would afford to the other
They ;4 been told by the Hon. Member for Cam-
bridge, that this PlePOre 44 no necessary connection with
the measure granting polo,: gmanidpation. That
might be so I but the House had the ppiniTl Of the Itight
Hon. Secretary for the Fiume ijcpartment to the eontrary.
He had been for a long time opposed in politics to the Right
Hon. Secretary, but never had he heard from the Right Hon.
Gentleman an opinion which could lead him to suppose
that-he (Mr. Secretary Peel) was not sincere. The Right
Hon. Genplefpag had told the House that the two mea-
sures were connepted,,-(Hepr, hear.)—Was it impossible,
in the existing state of rhinga, and the peculiar state of Ire-
land, that such was the peep ? The House was aware, that
in farmer times there were not wanting public men, who
would willingly sacrifice the interests of their country, and
pause its ruin, provided they could carry their own mea-
sures ? but lie would ask, were such public men to be
found in the I,,,esent day? He confessed that he himself
did not clearly see the -,:ecassary connection between the
two pleasures ; but the 4igjA Nor.. Secretary for the
How Department asserted, that such connection did
exist, and with his superior information, lie (Lord Althorp)
was bound to ,soda that statement. These measures
would, ha believed, bp beneficial to both classes of society
in Ireland—he meant the forty-shilling freeholders and the
higher classes. Let any man look to the present state of
the Irish population. They consisted of two castee ; one
case was a prowribed, and outcast body--the other a ty,.
rannical and powerful body; but the proposed measures
would amalgamate and equalize both. He opposed the
measure-of his Noble Friend (the Member for Kilkenny),
because he fell .that it would take away all the benefits con-
templated by :the pop. Secretary for the Home
Pepastment.
Mr. Speretary PEEL and Mr. TOI'L'E hating risen at
the same time, the evils for Mr. Iseets beeaine loud and
general. The 444 lion. Gentleman,. howeol, eaye
way, and
Mr. TUITE proceede4 rtimi44 mipiclorable noise and
confusion. He did not wish to detain the House at any
length, but he was anxious to reed a letter, whieh
was
•trongly expressive of the opinions as well of the Roman
Catriloli4 as the Protestants of the county of Meath, with
reference .to 4,.1 proposed Bid. The letter stated, that
the writer was deixi.ok; to explain to the Hon. Member
a, Meeting of the PrOteeiswt and Catholic Freeholders
and
.Geeynnen of the county of lkiel bad been held,
and that both part!es had expressed eir eatis;;;;tion, as
7.7e1l at the measures vroposed by Government for I,lae je.
lief of Irelaiid; as with the course pursued by their repre-
BeAliaaVi (Mr. Tuite) upon these 44-4sures. The Meet-
ing wept tt) fiXpreas the hish.peape tOitiglo .and