The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-06 00:00:00

land the right of Trial by Jury? If you do, depend upon
it your measures of coercion will be in a great degree de-
feated.—(Hear, hear.) For myself, I feel perfectly satis-
fied that it is for the Proteataut as well as the Catholic in-
tercet that the line of demarcation which hes hitherto been
so str,.ngly drawn between them be as nearly effaced as
possible. If you draw more strongly that line of demar-
cation, what, I ask, ar-e you to do with the Raman Ca-
possessed as they are a a pnwerrul alliance in this
House ? Again, I say, yon are fighting this battle not as
Protestants againSt Catholics—for the Catholics are a firm
and onito rl body, ;and oppose theinaelves to you in a corns
iiet phalanx, wheEeas the Protestants are divided 'and op-
posed to. each other on the
.question.L.-(flear.) This is
the point of view in V7ll:ili 1 think you oua.ht to consider
the question. Look to the declaration made the
other day by a majority of the great landed
proprietors of Ireland, who were of course deeply in-
terestcd in the adjustment of the measure. That de-
claration put the question in its true light. It
represented the Roman Catholics as one united and
compact phalanx, whilst the ProtsstaNe ss-e'e fineng
battle ilis'hart. ThAt deciatration was signed, as I have
'Al';'eady oinierved, by persons svto were deeply interested
in all that relates to Ireland. It was signed
by two Dukes, seven Marquisaea, and 27 Earls. Can we
suppose that they had any motive in unfairly stating the
caw: ? Thus then we find the Roman Catholics Unit_
nimous in the assertion of their Claims, whilst the
Protestants are labouring, not only under disunion
among themselves, but acting nnder a divided Government.
Such a state of things might be endured during peace,
but can it possibly exist in the event of a war? I almost
fear that the first appearance of that war will lie at home.
If Hon. !.embers are determined to say that they will
maintain the principles of the Constitution, and that in
order to do so they are ready to carry their measures of
exclusion into execution at any risk, I must advise them
to look to history. There was a time when the affairs of
• Irrlind were administered by bold hearts and determined
spirits. Let us look at 1792. At that period it was found
that Grand Juries were united in a body in opposing the
Catholic Claims, even at a time when Mr. Pitt was at the
head of the English Government. At that period, too,
the Parliament of Ireland sets found rejecting, nut any
Bill or measure fur the relief of the Roman Catholics, but
a petition praying a consideration of their claims, by a
majority of at least three to one. But what followed ? In
the course of a year the French war broke out, and in
despite of the declarations of Grind Juries—in despite of
the Irish House of Commons, the next Stesion of Parlia-
ment opened with a recommendation from the Crown to
take into consideration thelpropriety of granting certain con-
cessions to the Irish Roman Catholics.—(Cheers, and cries
of hear.) At that period a Bill granting the elective fran-
chirps was prase(' ; but passed in such haste, and with such ,
want of attention, that we are even onto this day tasting of '
its bitter fruit.—(Hear, hear.)—Who then will venture to
say that we should he safe under the existing system in the
event of a war, or that we should not be obliged, in snch
an event, to withdraw onr declarations and grant still fur- '
titer concessions ? Another alternative has indeed been al-
luded to, though, perhaps, somewhat remotely. 1 mean
a civil war. Front my heart do I deprecate any such
event.—(Cheers.)—Sincerely, from the bottom of my
heart, do I hope that the Protestant Constitution of this
country may never be loaded with the responsibility of
such an event.—(Hear, hear.)—l world, in allusion to
such an event--adopting the language of an Illustrious
Individual during a former civil war—cry ont—" Peace,
peace, peace!"--(Hear, hear, hear.)—To those who con-
templated, without alarm, such a disastrous event as a
chit war, arising out of the discontent to which such a
system of coercion and exclusion of the Roman Catholics
would be likely to produce, I would say—
" CoCant in feedera dextra

Quit dater : ast armis concurrent arms Cavete."(cheers.)
If thete were a civil war in Ireland, what is to he
got from it? What are to be the eonseq iences ? What
would be the state of the Catholic question when the
civil war had terminated. You tried this before. Read
the history of Ireland, Mr. Pitt being at the head of
the Government. I take the history of that civil
war from the preamble of the Act of the year
1791. It is said there that " a civil war continued to
rage and lay desolate the land, and stopped the ordinary
course of justice." There would be the same indignation
excited now, and, I believe, that after a civil war, if
there was one, I believe the very first act vvonld
be to look for a settlement of this queetion.—(llese
Unless a civil war was to put an end to this contest, and
adjust the Catholic Claims, would not all act as nothing ?
In 1798, after the civil war, who were immediately con-
nected with the affairs respecting it ? Lord Corn-
wallis, .Mr. Pitt, and Lord Castlereagk. In 1801,
those illusti ions individua!s retired from office because they
mild not carry the question. I feel satisfied, Sir, that the
result of a rebellion wonld be a settlement of the Ca-
tholic question. 117 these facts I have attempted to
satisfy the people of this country that the time was
came when it is prudent to attempt the adjustment of
the Cathclic Question. I have attempted, Sir, to show
that we cannot remain as we are. That there is a
moral necessity which compels us to look fur a
settlement. That there being two alternatives, it is
safer to prosecute the adjustment of the question, than
to prosecute resistance to it : and it is with that view
I proceed at this period to lay before the House the
proposal of his Majesty's Ministers for removing seine
of the evils—at least for laying the foundation of a better
syetem of Government, and for adjusting what is called the
Catholic Question.--Sir, I do not pretend to disguise any of
the difficulties which accompany the settlement of this ques-
tion. Some difficulties which are very strongly urged, I
cannot and never have attempted to remove. The chief
opposition throughout the country at this irawnent, I believe,
is that thii" question involves religious and not political
circumstances, The excitement which has been created
lat this moment arises, I believe, in the supposition that
there is itemething inconsistent in attempting to let
Catholics into power. Sir, I deny that this is a religious
question. Toe question was introduced into this House,
and supported solely and only in a political view, awl with
reference to the principles of the Constitution. If the
question is to be looked upon as a -eligious one, have we,
let me ask, succeeded, by our system of exclusion, in in-
creasing the number of Protestants? Is it not a fact that
the agents of the Protestant religion are suspected ? Is it
not flue that the higher clesees of the Rotaan Catholics are
prevented, by a sense of honour, from conforming to the
Protestant religion? Is it not true that the Protestant
religion would have fairer play, and, at the same time, a
better chance of purifying, if not destroying, the Catholic
religion, if the Catholic disabilities were altogether removed ?
I thisk I shall be able to show that the question before us
is purely political, and that no man, however warm,
however zealous in support of the P,otestant cause, can
offer any objection to the measure which I am about to
propose. (Hear.) Another ground which has been taken,
but which in my opinion never could for one moment
be supported, is the Coronation Oath.—(Hear, hear.) Sir,
I can only say, that having for eighteen years conducted
the opposition to this question, anti having been desirous
of finding out a fair, legitimate ground of objection
to it, I cannot give a better proof of my objection to the
coronation oath standing in the way, than that I uniformly
disclaimed that as a ground. That was the construction put
upon the Coronation. Oath by Mr. Pitt and Lord Liver-
pool, and I confess, when I read the terms of that oath, I
cannot conceive the removal of civil disabilities is incon-
sistent with it. But that there are other and serious diffi-
culties presenting themselves in carrying the measure I do
not for one moment attempt to disguise from myself. I
know that in approaching this subject there are difficulties
and o' jectious which I anticipate as growing out of the
terms of the Act of Union, and which will no doubt be
urged against ine—l know, too, that in the composition of
the measure which I am shout to submit, there may be
found to be objections to points that will naturally be felt
its an interference in vested political rights ; hot I earnestly
intreat that all who hear inc will agree with me in the pro-
priety of approaching this subject in the spirit of mutual
concession (cheers.) Let us consider whether the basis on
which I propose to put these measures be just—whether the
measures themselves he well founded. Let us look to their
ultimate object ; and if that object be not in itself vain, let us
not for any slight objection forego the advantages which every
sensible man must reasonably expect, although the result
may be somewhat over-rated by some of the most san-
guine among us? and let us not refuse to do what we
can to avert those dangers which every man must foresee
if this attempt at conciliation shottld fail to he adopted.—
(Cheers.)—There have before been great occasions in
which minor objects have been set aside. Look it the
great periods in the history of this country, when the
public safety required great and extraordinary measures—
irreconcilealile with the ordinary course of events. In
such crises it has been found a mutter both of fail nese and
wisdom to make a partial stcrifice of a principle, for the
purpose of securing an object which it was the essential
aim of that principle to preserve. Look at the Union
with Scotland. That Union was found absolutely neces-
sary for the public interest. The advantage of the whole
nation required that the Governments of the two countries
should be consolidated; yet when that question was first
agitated, the greatest effect was produced by what was said
of the Nature of the measure itself. It was said, " Will you
consent, under any circumstances, to sacrifice an independent
Legislature—to sacrifice the independence of the kingdom,