The Sun.
London, England, 1827-03-07 00:00:00

iat eloquence and those powers to the object to which I have

.eferred: I ask, is this a light danger, and are _we to treat it

with contempt ? or, are we not on the other hand, to reserve in
our own hands the most effectual means of defending ourselves
from such a danger?—(Cheers.)-_I fear, Sir, I have trespassed
too long upon the attention of the House. I confess, that pass-
ing the topics relating to this subject over in my mind with great
rapidity, they connected themselves together in such a manner,
that when I reviewed them, I had no expectation of having been
so long in my address.—(Cheers.)—l must, however, still tres-
pass further on your attention. I here wish to ask the other side
what it is they propose ? They tell us of other nations, and
they talk much and loudly of the extraordinary liberality which
prevails iu several nations of the continent of Europe, with re-
spect to religions which are not established in those states. As
examples of this liberality, Austria and France have been referred
t.o. In the former of theme I have understood it to be said, that

in no country does a system of liberality more fully prevail. If
we look into the circumstances of that country, we shall see that
there is not one point in which she can be said to he in the same
situation as England. It may be true that in that country there
are no distinctions as to religion ; but every body must know that
all the members of the church and of the hierarchy of Austria are
appointed by the civil Government of the country.—(Hear.)—
The same observation may be made with respect to France,
and it will equally apply to all the other Catholic coun-
tries of Europe ; and, therefore, I say, that the argu-
ments founded upon their liberality are not to be pressed upon us,
a;ace their situation is not analogous to our own.—(Cheers.)--
I come now, Sir, to another argument, much relied upon by the
supporters of this resolution. lam told that some measure is ne-
cessary for tranquillising Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)—But that is
not all ; for I am also told, that after having proceeded so far as
we have already done, there is an absolute necessity for proceeding
further. When I hear this, I naturally ask, will our prcuceding
further risk the destruction of the Church Establishment.—(Hear,
hear.) 7—Will it be certain to effect the tranquilliiation of Ireland ?
—(Hear.)—lf my first question is not satisfactorily answered,
then I say you must not press upon the argument as to tranquil-
lizing Ireland. I say this, Sir, not out of a feeling of disregard
for the tranquillity of that country. I lament as much as
any man the unfortunate situation of that country—l deplore
her want of tranquillity; but it does not therefore follow, that
I should suffer the introduction of a measure, which may
destroy the Protestant Establishment, and which I am not
quite satisfied will restore tranquillity to Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)—
The Roman Catholic Religion, Sir, is a religion of encroach-
ment; and those persons at the head of it in Ireland have given
us reason by their own declarations to entertain this opinion.
They seem to consider that when they supplanted (as they expect
to do) the Protestant Establishment, they shall possess themselves
of its property ; and the Protestants, therefore, feel it their duty
to defend the interests of the Church, and to vindicate it in the
hands of its enemies.---(Hear, hear.—Sir, I should be glad to
know if the Catholic Hierarchy which exercises so unbounded a
sway over the minds of the Irish people,will be contented if it ob-
tain what it now seeks? I should be glad to know whether it will
suffer its claims to rest at the point of Catholic Emancipation, or
whether it will not put in claim after claim, till what is now
called Catholic Emancipation has been converted into Catholic
Supremacy.—(Loud cheers.)—l fear that this will be the case,
and I think that he must take an ill measure of the spirit of the
Roman Catholic Religion who dissents from this opinion.—(Hear,
hear.)—The arguments on which I ground this opinion are
founded on the experience of history, but not on that alone, nor
even on that in conjunction with the acts of Catholics, which may
be taken as proofs of their spirit, but on the very declarations
of Catholic Bishops, who have spoken too openly to leave any
doubt as to their intentions.—(Hear, hear hear !)—I refer,
Sir, to the declarations contained in the letter of Dr. Doyle,
the Roman Catholic Bishop of Kildare, who tells us openly
that Catholic Emancipation will do much, but that much
more was to be accomplished.—(Loud cheering.)—l bring thus
the Roman Catholic Religion into the discussion of the ques-
tion at isma before us, because I think that question is not
merely whether Roman Catholics shall be admitted into this
House; but that the great, the important, the ultimate, point
to be determined is, whether the Protestant Establishment
shall continue to exist in Ireland.—(Cheering.)—To that point
I wish to press your attention, and I think you can entertain no
doubt of the truth of my proposition. It seems to me that in-
jury to the Protestant Establishment will be the necessary con-
sequence of granting the measures now proposed; and I fear it
was the anticipation of that consequence which caused this Reso-
lution to be received with such cheers. It is against such a con-
sequence that I wish to guard. I therefore warn lion. Gentle-
men, that they should not take it for granted, that in deciding
this question they will pat an end to all dissension, and succeed in
tranquillising Ireland. I believe that there are, in this House
Members who would willingly take issue upon this question, but
all do not feel the same upon that point ; and to these latter Gen-
tlemen I appeal, and I say, do not fancy, that by adopting these
measures you will put an end to the storm that has so long dis-
tracted Ireland.—(Hear hear.) I am certain that, if we admit
sixty or seventy Roman Catholic Members into this House,' the
next measure demanded will be, the upsetting of the Protestant
Establishment in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) In what situation
shall we then be? If we object to the new proposals, we shall
be again told that, as we have gone so far, we must go
farther, and we shall be reminded of what we are now
doing, and shall be told that we ought to have taken
our stand before.—(Loud cheering.) Let us, Sir, prevent
such a consequence.—(Hear, hear.) It is, Sir, in the most sober
earnestness that I press these subjects upon the consideration of
the House. How am I met in doing so ? lam asked, if I ob-
ject to the measures now proposed, what are those which I would
substitute for them 7 Ido not know that I ought to be required
to answer such a question. My answer, therefore, is, that lam
not a Member of his Majesty's Government—(hear, hear, hear!);
I am not one of the Ministers of the Crown ; I have no connexion
with the Government ; I am not united to them otherwise than
by the respect I owe to the individuals of which it is composed.
It would'consequently be idle, and indeed mischievous, for me to
pretend to say what is my opinion as to the measures that ought
to be adopted--(hear, hear!).--When, therefore, I am asked
what I propose, I answer that question by another, and I ask what
are the securities which the Catholics propose to give us in return
for the concessions they require us to make? If they ask for con-
cessions, which arc to L:- purchased at the price of securities, I ask
what are the securities proposed? If they satisfy me that the se-
curities are adequate to the purpose required, I will agree to grant
their demands. If their securities are sufficient, I say fairly
and at once, I will concede the question ; but I must first know
what those securities are—l must have time to deliberate on their
sufficiency—l must satisfy myself with regard to them—and till I
am fully satisfied I must do that which will preserve the peace of
the Church. I beg pardon for having trespassed so long on the
attention of the House (hear, hear) ; but. I was anxious that the
manner in which I viewed this question should not be misunder-
stood, and that anxiety must stand as my excuse. (Hear, hear.)
It is not improbable that I may be followed by my Right Hon.
Friend, the Attorney-General for Ireland. There is not any man
that possesses greater powers, or that can use them more forcibly
for the advantages of the cause which he espouses. I admire the
heartiness with which he has entered into this question ; and while
I pay this deserved tribute to his talent and his zeal, I trust that
he will give me equal credit for the sincerity with which I enter-
tain the opinions I have expressed. (Hear, hear.) With that ob-
servation I shall sit down. The Right Hon. Gentleman resumed
his seat, amidst the most loud and continued cheering. When it
had in some degree subsided,
Mr. PLUNKETT rose to address the House.
He spoke to the following effect : —lt may appear, Sir, not only
presumptuous, but even rash and useless, for me to offer myself
to the notice of the House immediately after the address which
we have just heard. Ido so, however, Sir, not from any confi-
dent imagination of the extent of my own powers, or from any
belief, that from being connected with his Majesty's Govern-
ment, I am entitled to offer my humble suggestions upon this
matter, but simply because the subject of the speech of the Right
Hon. Gentleman who has just sat down bears so directly upon
the interests of the country in which I hold an official station,
that I trust I may be excused for deeming it necessary to make a
few observations upen it. Ido assure that Right Hun. Gentle-
man, that I am grateful to him for the kindness with which he
has spoken of me. I have the highest respect for his great ta-
lents and extensive acquirements, and I sincerely hope, that in
what I am about to say, I may not misrepresent him, either in
the facts he has stated or the arguments he has employed. If
I should do so, the misrepresentation will be entirely acciden-
tal, for I have listened to him with the deepest attention,
and I will now endeavour fairly to re-state to the House those
points of his Address which I deem it material to notice. Be-
fore, however, I touch upon any one particular point, I am
bound to say—and I may say it consistently with every feeling
of respect I entertain for him—that having listened to him with
the deepest attention, I have in vain attempted to collect from
his speech what are his specific objections to the present Reso-
lution.—(Hear, and a laugh.)—On a question the most critical,
the most alarming, and the most urgent that can be discussed re-
garding the interests of Ireland, the Right Hon. Gentleman has
left us in doubt as to the reason on which his opposition to con-
cession is grounded.—(Hear, bear.)-1 confess that when he be-
gan, I felt some degree of surprise and alarm. The Right Hon.
Gentleman has thought it right to go into the history of the Ca-