The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-03 00:00:00

1 any layman, and state such lay doctrines as of the highest ec-
clesiastical authority. There was a vnedityku betygen the,,,doc-
trines of the Gallican Church and theme ofiahe 'trans-
alpine or Transmontane party.
hear.") The book upon which sofAssicil.,*l"its*ts'44%lssit so‘,
laid by the Noble Lords opposite MAY :fartie-VriFko,',
been condemned by the Church in thi.i4Ost antharitatiiernait.,
ner. He would, therefore, if hemiglstrbe allowed, to use the
term, give the lie most positively to Ilre assertion, that the --1
doctrines contained in that book (" Thettlols,") were
the docrines of the Church.
Earl RODEN said he found the boa: je-the-e49Togue of:
the Maynooth class:books. •ti

LordBEAUMONT said if the Noble Earl had heard him out
he would have found that he was prepared to explain that circum-
stance. The students of theology were required to read over the
antagonist works, and this book, as read in the College, was pre-
pared by an introduction, cautioning the students
against the doctrines.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")
Even if this grant to Maynooth were refused, the College
would flourish—the Roman Catholic religion in Ireland would
flourish as it had hitherto done, in spite of every persecution
—( Hear, hear)—and, however the Government of this country
might try to lighten the poverty and improve the condition of
that suffering people—( Hear, hear, hear)—unless the Noble
Earl was prepared to take a backward step, he could not leave
things as they were, but must take measures to elevate the op-
pressed Church, to improve the condition of the people, and to
diminish the bitter antagonism between the two Churches.—
( Hear, hear.) The more nearly the two Churches were
brought to one level, the less would be the animosity
between their members.—(Hear.) He had been in countries
where the two communions worshipped in the same churches,
and the utmost harmony prevailed amongst them.—( Hear.)
Let the Government of this country place the two Churches
upon the same footing here as they were in the parts of Ger-
many to which he referred, and they would find the same cor-
diality to be the result. He should only add, that in speaking
to this question he was placed in the dilemma either of speaking
of it as he felt, or as an indication of something that was to
follow in the same direction. This might alarm some ' • but
even at' that risk he would rather do so than hold back
and speak in a cautious or jesuitical manner.—( Hear, hear.)
He did not mean to look upon it as a mere question of recon-
ciliation, for he did not think it would be sufficient to reconcile
the Roman Catholic priests, not to speak of the Catholic laity,
of Ireland.--( Hear, hear.) There was also something to be
done for the laity, if this country meant to conciliate Ireland.
He-alluded to the Bill now before the other House for the
extension of lay education. Many men of high station, if well
educated, might then take a turn for divinity, and having
become good theologians they might enter Mavnooth College
and become Catholic clergymen of the highest order.—( Hear.)
There was another subject which he would fain allude to. Ile
did not wish to make this solely a religious question. It
was well known that not only in Ireland but all over
Europe, the poorer the clergy were, the greater their influ-
ence ; and theref .re on that ground this House should not
hesitate to accede to the measure; for it would have the
effect of elevating the character of the Irish clergy.
( Hear, hear.) With regard to the persecutions for consci-
ence sake, to which the Noble Lord opposite had alluded, he
( Lord Beaumont) fully agreed with the Noble Lord, that
protection and respect should be extended to the religious
opinions of all.--( Hear, hear.) Time was, when the clergy
of Bavaria were most intolerant; but now they were amongst
the most liberal men of Europe.—( Hear, hear.) He would
not further trespass on their Lordships ; but he could not sit
down with mot expressing his gratitude to the Government for
this measure, as a Roman Catholic, though it was no more
than justice demanded, or was intended by those who preceded
the present Government.—(Loud cheers.)
Lord HARDWICK rose, and moved that the debate be
then adjourned.
Lord BROUGHAM thought, that if they adjourned to-
night, they would have to adjourn .to-morrow night also.
At any rate they should continue the debate for a few hours
longer. •
Lord COLCHESTER moved that the debate be continued.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought that an oppor-
tunity should be afforded to the Lord Bishop of Cashel to
'address their Lordships that night.
The Bishop of CASHEL rose and said that if he spoke that
night, he had one consolation to offer their Lordships, that he
would not detain them so long as, in all probability, he would
if they adjourned the Bill till to-morrow night.—( Great
Laughter.) The doctrines taught at Maynooth would,
in his opinion, disgrace any religion. It was, he
thought, a snbject of rejoicing that the clergy of their
Church were educated as gentlemen,_ and were not
merely stuffed with dogmatic theology. He would net detain
them long. One point which he would refer to wa,s the infu-
sion of the Jesuits into the institutions that were spreading
over the country. Taking everything into account, he would
call upon the Roman Catholic Members of that House to join
with him in endeavouring to arrest the influence of the Jesuits,
which was becoming so powerful and dangerous. But the
main ground on which he felt himself called upon to oppose
the Bill was his disinclination to be a party to the dissemina-
tion of error. He trusted he would express himself so as to
give no offence to those Catholics who were in that House, but
he could not help alluding to the respective meritsof the Church
of Rome and the Reformed Church. They were long since tried
and the verdict was given against the Church of Rome. That
verdict was that the Church of Rome was superstitious and
idolatrous. He felt that the Church of England had a refer-
ence to the Church of Rome which it had to no other Church,
for it had come out from the Church of Rome in consequence
of the errors which had crept into the latter. The ancients,
when they pledged their friends, first 'of all drank themselves
out of the cup, and on the same grounds he could never
think of allowing others to drink of the moral cup
of error which he refused to taste himself.—( Hear.)
He doubted whether the principles of the measure were in con-
sonance with the eath taken by the Sovereign, and be could
not conceive how any Minister could present a Bill 'for sig-
nature at that Throne which was upheld alone by contradictory
belief. Anticipating that the present was but a commence-
ment of a principle that would result in the endowment of the
Roman Catholic Church, and thus present the anomaly and
the disgrace of a State endowing:two Churches of antagonist
doctrines, because its Government believed none, he should
record his solemn and decided opposition against the Bill,
and thereby redeem his pledge to his country and his God.
With these sentiments he would conclude.

Lord CLIFFORD said, he rose to ask a question of ti.e
Right Rev. Prelate, whether he knew the contents of the 13:13
Report of the Commissioners of Education?
The Bishop of CASHEL—I do not.
Lord CLIFFORD was of opinion that the Right Rev.
Prelate was therefore not in a position to give a definite
opinion on the subject. He (Lord Clifford) would refer to the
evidence of the Rev. Peter Kenny, one of the order of Jesuits,
given before that Commission, who, on being asked respecting
allegiance to the Pope, stated that their first allegiance was due
to the Sovereign of the country..—( Hear, hear.) After this
he could not see what objection could be urged against the
system of education pursued at Alaynooth.
The Earl of WINCHILSEA said it was too late to go
further into the debate that night, but he would engage, on
another evening, to prove to the Noble Lord, and to the House,
that the very opposite doctrines were taught.
The debate was then adjourned at One o'clock.

1741PUSE OF COMMONS, June 2.
MEMBERS' DAYS.
Mr. WARD said, that seeing the Right Hon. Member for
Taunton (Mr. Laboachere) in his place, he would beg to ask
him whether he would have any objection to postpone the
motion which he had on the paper for to-morrow. He had
himself a notice on the paper, which he had postponed for
several days, and as there was now only one day in the week
which was appropriated to private business, unless he could
obtain this favour he should have no opportunity of bringing his
motion on at all.
Mr. LABOUCHERE said, that though anxious to bring
his motion before the House, yet in consideration of the notice
of his Hon. Friend he would beg to postpone his motion till a
future day.
CHARITABLE BEQUESTS' BILL.
Mr. ROSS said he was anxious to correct a misrepresenta-
tion which had arisen in Ireland, respecting what he had
stated concerning Mr. O'Connell. He did not say that Mr.
O'Connell did not possess the confidence of the Irish pet pie,
but (hat what Mr. O'Connell had said was not in accordance
with the sentiments of the Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland.
MR. O'DRISCOLL.
Sir T. FREMANTLE, in ireply to an Hon. Member.
said that he had heard to-day, from the Lord Chancellor,
that he had felt it his duty to issue a supersedes' to remove
Mr. O'Driscoll from the commission of the peace.
CHRISTCHURCH COLLEGE, OXFORD.
Mr. BLACKBURN said, that before the order of the day
was read for the Academical Institutions in Ireland Bill, he vas
anxious to correct an insinuation which had been thrown out by
the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department
against the College of Christchurch at Oxford, in which he
said that the students at that college were not required to attend
any divinity lectures to:obtain a chgree. He would state from the
rules of the College that there were divinity lectures on Mon-
day, Wednesday, and Friday in every week, immediately after
chapel time, and he knew, of his own knowledge that many able
men had been refused their degrees because they were unable
to pass the divinity examination.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the Hon. Member was
a much younger member of the University than himself. What
he had said was that when at Oxford he had been
neither advised nor compelled to attend divinity
lectures during the two first years of his attendance, that was
from 1810 to 1812. In the third year, however, he had been
required to attend them, and that was the first year when those
lectures were delivered.
ACADEMICAL INSTITUTIONS—IRELAND.
On the order of the day being read,
Mr. M. MILNES said that though labouring under several
indisposition, he would as briefly as possible state his
opinions to the House. The Bill before the House
was opposed upon two very different and distinct grounds, and
with two very different and distinct objects. For one of them
he entertained every respect, but he could not sky so much
for the other. The first was, the opposition of his Hon.
Friends the Members for Oxford and Cambridge, which he
might call the Protestant opposition. Now he could not help
observing that this opposition came very ungraciously from
those Hon. Gentlemen, after their opposition to the Bill for
the endowment of Maynooth. They refused to give any
education to the Catholics of Ireland, and now they ob-
jected to a Bill for educating the laity of Ireland. There
was another line of objection ; his Hon. Friend said
that this education ought not to be given unless it was founded
on religion. He thought that if they were to exa'tnine the
matter they would find that they did not use the word religion
in the proper sense. They did not use the word religion in
d
eodtpsnFhsureorrteaf
sotai
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Protestant.
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igious of
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religious
which the Government did not think it proper to interfere.
They must trust the academical education of the youtlrof Ire-
land to the Roman Catholic clergy of that country.—( Hear. )
They might make some restrictions in the system, but it would
end in that. He appealed to what he had said both within end
without that House that he had always considered the Roman
Catholic clergy of Ireland able and devoted men, and that their
only faults arose from their historical condition ; but they had
been too long occupied in what lre might term practical mat-
ters, than to promote the cultivation of literature and of sci-
ence. if the youths in the west or in the south were members
of the Roman Catholic faith, it was only just that the professors
should be Roman Catholics. With respect to an observation
of the Hon. Bat onet the Member for Oxford, he could say that
during the whole time he was at that University he had never
heard the subject of divinity mentioned. He would rejoice
when Trinity College was placed on a wider field of competition.
I He thought that the course which the Roman Catholics of Ire-
I land had taken with respect to this measure was one which was
• not calculated to advance the object they had in view. Let the
s Roman Catholic Church of Ireland exercise as it did its legiti-
I mate, fair, and independent influence over the country. Let
it extend over them its parental care—a care becomi• g the age
and
time
it
academicalexisting
in
education
ccaatri
oe
n becoming
w a
to
o bt
eh the pe t
applied,od
f and they might depend upon it the sad results anticipated by
life to they
which found
this
• his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Oxford would never
come to pass.
Lora J. RUSSELL quite agreed in one observation made
by the Hon. Gentleman who had just tat down. That Hon.
r Gentleman had said that the measure made no pretence to