The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-09 00:00:00

LONDON, WEDNESDAY,

account. Of those who were suffering from destitution, thougk
vast numbers came forward, yet there were very many who did
not do so. For these, inquiry was necessary. and stated
that a partial inquiry instituted by some benevolent individuals,
had produced such instances of distress, that the party carrying
it on were reduced to a state of perfect disgust and hopelessness,
which he could not describe. He perceived that a gift of Go-
vernment stores hzd been made to the destitute weavers in
Spitelfields, and he hoped that his own distressed countrymen
would be thought deserving of a similar gift, either of corn taken
out of bond,free of duty, or provisions from the Government stores.
The distress in the neighbourhood of Paisley was increasing.
and that greatly diminished the prospect of employment to the
people in the town. The distress was on the increase in Ayr,
Renfrew, and the adjoining counties. It happened that many
of those unfortunate people had work given for which their
looms were not suited, and vast numbers of them went out on
the roads to break stones, or undertook other heavy out-door
work. At first their hands were blistered, but after a while
they got hard, and would in time become unfit for the fine work
in which they would be employed in their own trade whenever
it revived. He had now done, and should only offer his humble
recommendation that two or three active, sensible Gentlemen
out of that House—without the expense of a well paid Com-
mission—should be sent down to Paisley to ascertain the actual
condition of the people, and the extent of the distress. If that
inquiry was refused to him, he hoped at least that her
Majesty's Ministers would be prepared to bring forward some
measure to relieve the distress and destitution, which was
greater than he had known, even in the misery which had
afflicted the people from time to time in the last ttwenty.
five yearr.—( Hear.) He concluded with moving an address—
.' Praying her Majesty will be graciously pleased to command
that an immediate and diligent inquiry be made into the natnre
and extent of the misery and destitution under which the inha•
bitants of Paisley and other towt.e in Renfrewshire have beets
suffering for so long a period, and are still enduring; and fur-
ther, that her Majesty will be graciously pleased to command
tkat the said inquiry be prosecuted vigorously, so that the results
may be laid, as soon as possible, before this House, with a view'
to its providing, with all speed, against the longer continuance
of the intolerable distress ; as also against, the evident and im-
minent danger of disease and pestilence following in its usual
course, thereby causing more numerous deaths from cold and
hunger and actual starvation than hitherto, aswell as increasing
the ruinous tendencies of these appalling evils on the moral
character of all who are directly affected by tkem, or who live
within the range of their influence."
Sir J. GRAHAM sail, that he should begin the observa-
tions he intended to address to the House, by saying that
the Hon. Gentleman, who had just set down, was entitled to
great praise for the temperate and judicious manner in which he
hail introduced the subject of which he had given notice to the
House.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He must confess that the num-
ber of persons to be relieved in Paisley, and the surrounding
districts, was very great, amounting to 17,000 persons, and in
such circumstances it seemed hardly possible the distress could
be relieved. But they ought to be very careful not to aggra-
vate the distress, by the excitement of expectations which
could be raised only to he disappointed.—( Hear, hear.) Ae
felt it to be the duty of Government to proceed with the utmost
caution on the subject. If there were any disputes as to mat-
ters of fact, it might be necessary to institute are inquiry ; but
ice 11. d admitted that the extent of distress was great, sod he
also admitted the exemplary patience and fortitude with which
it was endured.-4 Hear.) All the rights of property were pre-
served, the law had not been violated, and the patient. endurance
of the sufferers had been of the most exemplary character.—
( Hear, hear.) In such circumstances it would be the height
of imprudence to take any step to excite hopes which would en.]
in disappointment. He must say that the appointment of two
Commissioners, specially directed to ascertain the fact of dis-
tress, would be worse than useless, if the House were not pre-
pared to point out the means of relief. If the Hon. Gentle-
man only intended that a searching inquiry should be instituted
into the causes of distress, he (Sir J. Graham) should say that
the inquiry by a Commission was not the best mode of ascer-
taining theta. He could well understand that there were many
special circumstances occasioning the distress in Paisley. But
he doubted whether so large a community, a great part of
which subsisted on wages derived from labour, was affected by
the causes which had been indicated by the Hon. Gentleman.
The Hon. Gentleman wished that those special circumstances
should be strictly investigated. Now, he (Sir J. Graham)
did not think that the best mode of instituting the inquiry,
would be by a Commission. He should say that by far the
best course would be to bring the subject before a Committee
of that House, who might examine a few competent witnesses
by • whom the facts would be cleaily established, and the
House would thus be put in possession of the necessary in-
formation. But he ( Sir James Graham) was obliged to add
that even if the Hon. Member had pursued that more pru-
dent course, he should still feel it his duty to oppose him.
With regard to the appointment of a Commission, he should
say that lie thought such a step would give rise to a most
unfortunate understanding, and would lead to expectations
hich he could not hold out the least hope of realising. Under
those circumstances, it would be his duty to give his vote
against the Hon. Gentleman if he should be induced to press
his motion to a division--a course, which he hoped
the Hon Member would not pursue. It should be known
that the Government had already received information on the
subject from accredited sources. There was a Sheriffs' substi-
tute resident in every county in Scotland, whose duty it was
to make constant inquiries into the condition of the population,
and to repert to the Government the facts which be might have
collected. They had, therefore, sufficient means of obtainitg
information on the spot ; and, under those circumstances, and
for the reasons already given, he felt it his duty to oppose the
motion before the House.

Mr. HASTIE was sorry to find that the Right Hon Ba-
ronet had not uttered a word which could give the slightest
hope of relief to the distressed inhabitants of Paisley. It had
been truly stb.ted that there were now in that town 17,000 inhabi-
tants, out of a population of 65,000. depending entirely on
public charity for the means of subsistence. The Committee of
Relief had now but 1.8001. in their hands, which woul d
only give three weeks' sustenance to the unhappy sufferers,
and it was impossible to expect that charitable contributions
would be continued.—( Hear, hear.) Unless, therefore, some
relief were afforded by the Government, he looked with fear
and trembling to the result. ( Hear. )
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN had to-night presented a
petition, praying that the Government might assist
the people of Paisley. He believed that no case so
strong as that of Paisley had been made for such aid,
lie held in hilhand a petition presented ten months ago—that
petition was signed by no less than 3,000 persons, praying that
such aid should be given by Government to the suffering classes,
and for most part of that time the distressed persons had been
supported by contributions paid by the public, but now it could
not be sufficient for that purpose. The Noble Lord the Secre-
tiry for the Colonies must have seen from the Australian papers
that the resources of that colony could not be adequately deve-
loped for want of a sufficient number of hands, and that a
great demand for labour existed there. Some measure ought
therefore to be adopted, by which the distressed labourers
might be taken to these colonies; and the petition points out
this mode of relieving the distress. Whether the funds should
be raised by a loan on the security of the land for guarantee he
could not say ; for he did not know from what sources the ne-
cessary funds could be derived for such an object ; but he
thought that a great country like this, which, when a war was
to be carried on, fiend no difficulty in raising money for their
largest operations, ought not thus to suffer a large portion of
its most industrious and valuable population to continue in dis-
tress. He had head objections raised the other night to a
measure of emigration at the public expense; on account of the
large voluntary emigration at present going on, but such
objection did not apply to the emigration of the
distressed for the emigration then spoken of was, that of per-
sons who left the country with more or less capital, and was
not at all like this case. He felt that that was an improper
time for entering at large into the question of emigaation. but
he though, he should not do justice to the interests of those
who placed such interests in his hands, if he had not stated his
impressions on the subject.

Mr. WAKLEY said that it was impossible to hear the state-
ments made by Hon. Gentlemen without a feeling of great
commiseration. At the same time if they applied the remedy
proposed in the present case, it would be impossible to gu rd
against other place- similarly Circumstanced making a similar
application. His Hon. Friend had ce,tainly brought forward
his case in a very temperate speech, atm in a manner calcu-
lated to obtain for him the attention not only of the House, but
of the country at large. The facts stated by his Hon. Friend
were not disputed. The Government had no doubt whatever
about them. But the Hon. Gentleman failed to apply any re-
medy. What was the use of sending a Special Commission to
inquire into facts, when every statement made by his
Honourable Friend respecting those facts was admitted
to be, if anything, under the truth ? The proposal
made by the Honourable Gentleman who had just sit down was
a feasible one, but it would take much time to bring it into
operation. His (Mr. Wakley's) chief object in rising was to
ask what was the nature of the Poor-law in Scotland? He
wanted to know how it was that the property of Scotland, like
that of England, was not applied to the relief of the poor?
The Lord-Advocate was present, and he (Mr. Wakley) then
asked, was there a Poor-law in Scotland? He understood
there was, but he should like to know how it was carried into
effect, because it was of no use for Scotch gentlemen to make
applications to that House, and appeal to its sympathy, if they
neglected their duties in their own country. I;there was not a
Poor-law in Scotland, then he (Mr. Wakley) called on the
Government to apply itself to the subject at once, and see that
the people of Scotland were provided with an efficient and
effectual Poor-law, which should give them instantaneous re-
lief. That cou'd be done in the course of a week.
Its one week he (Mr. - Wakley) would undertake to
have a Poor-law provided for that country, if he had
a majority of ninety in that House. He understood
that there was something bearing the semblance of a Poot-
law in Scotland, but that there were no poor-houses. He
c, uld scarcely understand how a Poor-law could be brought
into operation without poor-houses, not that he had any de-
sire to see poor-houses established in Scotland similar to those
existing in England.—(A laugh.) But he thought that, con
sidering the lamentable distress which existed In that quarter,
it Would be a satisfaction to the House and to the country to
know precisely and distinctly what was the nature of the Poor-
law in Scotland; that if sufficient fur that purpose it might
appliedbem
i forht
he ado
the rel
pteod.f the sufferers, and ii not, some speedy
remedy

Mr. YORKE said it struck him that if they were to ap.
point a Commission for Paisley, upon the sufferings of those in-
habitants, he was somewhat competent to speak, having wit-
nessed for himself their appalling distress ; it struck him that if
they were to have a Commission for that town, it would be
merely a precursor to Commissions in almost every tuwn in
the kingdom, to such an appalling extent did manufacturing
stagnation prevail. At the time when he was in Paisley, there
were upwards of 14,000 persons in a:state of absolute destitution,
and but for what might be called the extraneous assistance ren-
dered to the town, those 14,000 persons must one by one have
died of starvation ; they were still subsisting upon this gratui-
tous and accidental relief. On the whole, his hope for Paisley
was that which he entertained for the country at targe,the hope
that taxes would b" taken off the staple commodity of human
existence, and that there would be a thorough recision of
those restrictive impositions which operated moot wickedly
against the bowels of the people.--( Hear, hear. )
Sir VALENTINE BLAKE spoke on the dreadful distress
which he lamented to say prevailed in every part of the king-
dom, urging the necessity of some provisionary remedy,
that should to some extent; at least, furnish some
amelioration of it. He begged to remind the House that simi-
lar periods of depression had occurred in other countries ; and
in one instance recorded in history, the consequence was ruin
and decay, and every evil incident to a nation. ( The Hon.
Member proceeded to read portions from two histotical writers,
mitt considerable laughter from both sides of the House. )
Trade was departing from Nottingham and the other towns in
England, which were becoming as distressed as those of Scot-
land and Ireland. A German manufacturer could bring over
goods of the same kind and quality as those manufactured at.
Nottingham, and sell them in that town at a price 50 per cent.
lower than they could be manufactured there. I f the Members of
that House did not take steps to arrest the progress of the distress
they would be placed in the same condition as those people.—
( A laugh.) It might seem to be very laughable, but if they
did nothing to relieve the people, the Poor-laws would make
the latter their masters, and there would be an end to their
rents. The Hon, Uatonet then adverted to the statutes pro-
hibiting the introduction of cattle, corn, and other articles of
provisions into Ireland.—(" Question, question," from the
opposite benches.) Sir Valentine Blake apologised to the
House for intruding upon it so long, and thanked Hon. Gen-
tlemen for the courtesy with which he had. been heard, but he
would not farther trespass on the Gentlemen behind him—
( La;;gliter)—and he hoped he would yet leave them behind
him.--( Cod and long ehe(rs. )
Sir R. PEEL—Feeling, as he did, the utmost sympathy

for the sufferings. which had' been described, and &tying the
Hon. Member who had just sat down the utmost credit for the
manner in which he brought forward his motion, he (Sir R.
Peel) hoped he would not press it farther at present. —( Hear,
hear.) At the same time, he (Sir R. Peel) expressed his ut-
most sympathy for the sufferers, and admired the exemplary
patience with which those sufferings had been endured. He
could not but admire the local exertions which had been made
for their relief, and the immense sacrifice of time
and money which had been made for that purpose.
As to the proposal of emigration, he would ask what would be
the consequence of sending down two Commissioners tteinquire
whether the distress of Paisley could be relieved by emigra-
tion? The Hon. Gentleman said, that from the nature of the
occupation of the weavers their hands were unfit even in their
own country to turn to other kinds of work, and if that were
the case was it likely that in any distant country, where a man
must earn his bread by the severest labome these men
could be otherwise than plunged in the greatest distress?
Consider, also, the position of the colonies, and then you wilt
see that we have no right to cast these encunibraneesoo them
by sending out persons entirely useless. The: eedeeivence of
the immediate transfer of thole -burthene which' evesdught to
hear would be that those whom we might send out would be
exposed to the most dreadful sufferings, for it could not be 'ex-
pected that the settlers would support them. The people of
Paisley were entitled to our strongest. sympathy, but very few
of them were fit for emigration. A young man,
of twenty or
thirty, whose hands were not yet formed by long habitude to a
particular kind of work, might, in the course of a little time,
learn to earn his bread in Australia or in Canada; but a man
of fifty or sixty years of age and a family of ten
children could never be expected to acquire those new
habits, and in einigratig he
would go to end his days
in the utmost misery ; in shert, unless those who sent
them out undertook to support them, their fate must be
Absolute starvation. Now there •was a great risk, ,if
the House interfered at all: first, that these persons who had
entitled themselVes to the utmost credit by their exertions
would relax those exertions, in the delusive hope that the Le-
gislature would do something; and the suffering people of
Paisley, instead of turning their attention to other modes of
occupation for the future, would look to the Legislature for re-
lief, which it could not give. Anything that the House could
attempt would only be postponing the evil day, to see the dis-
tress aggravved hereafter. He hoped, therefore, the Hon.
Gentleman would not press his motion, and thus give Hon.
Members the pain of voting against his preposition.
Sir VALENTINE BLAKE then 'rose to reply, amidst cries
of " Order," and he ultimately gave way to
Mr.' WALL Ss CE, who stated, in explanation, that the un-
happy people whose eau: e he advocated had thought that Go-
vernment had prepared some scheme of emigration for them ;
but the reply given by the Noble Lord the other night had effec-
tually dispelled any hopes on that subject which they might have
entertained. He was not aware when he put his notice on the
paper, that the Government had stepped forward out of its
usual course, and supplied funds in the shape of clothes, to tee
unfortunate people of Spitalfields. There was a part of his
motion, which he now abstained from alluding to, for the pre-
cise reason which had been suggested by theilight Honourable
Baronet opposite, as a proper reason, for net dividing- the
House. He believed the best medical then admitted, that when
pestilence was the consequence of famine and 'destitution, it
seldom accompanied, but generally followed them. He begged
to say to the Right Hon. Gentlemen, opposite and his colleagues,
that. as they had the best information from the highest autho-
rities on the subject, he (Mr. Wallace) had decided before the
Right Hon. Baronet offered him the counsel, not to divide the
House.—(Heor, hear.) His anxious hope was, that the people
of that part of the country whose representative he was, would
consider that there had been a good feeling displayed towards
them by the Members of that House.—( Hear, hear.) That the
wish which had been evinced throughout the length and breadth
of the land had been carried out by the representatives of the
people in that House.—( Hear, hear.) With the permission of
the House, he would now withdraw his motion, with the hope
that her Majesty's Government would not feel the difficulty in
performing the task which devolved upon them relative to this
unhappy people, increased by any thing which had fallen from
him.—( Hear, hear.)
Lord STAN LET said, he did not make it at all a matter
of complaint against the Hon. Gentleman, for nothing could
be more creditable than the manner in which he had brought
forward the question. But he aid not wish that an impression
should go abroad with respect to
.emigration, that in conse-
quence of intentional sileece, or concealment. of their in-
tentions by her Majesty's Government, any un ounded belief
should be created, that relief for the prevailing depression was
to be afforded by an extensive scale of emigration. It was
about two months ago that reports of such an intention on
the part of the Government were very prevalent, and he
( Lord Stanley) hail only declared that these reports were
without foundation ; he had no right to make a public explanation
on the subject, but whenever applications had been made
to him from Paisley and other places, and they had been very
numerous, he had always discouraged the prospects that were
founded on these reports.
Mr. WALLACE said he believed that the Noble Lord had
not misled the many persons from those places who were
anxious to emigrate ; but he (Mr. Wallace) having told some
of those parties that the Government had no such intention,
they had replied that he had nothing to do with the present
Government, and that they had better information.
Mr. S. JERVIS said a great part of the House appeared to
be totally ignorant of the state of the Poor-law in Scotland.
It would be better if the House couli receive some informa-
tion as to the power which the Magistrates had to enforce the
support of the poor in that country.
Mr. WAKLEY said he had no intention of putting the
question, or he would have given his Hon. and Learned ',tient(
notice. He thought the House and the country were bound to
know what means of relief the people of the country possessed.
'the LORD ADVOCATE said there was a poor-
law in Scotland, but in many perishes it was unnecessary
to enforce it, and this had led to a belief that such a law did
not exist. But in every part of Scotland there was a law which
provided for every one fallen under the pressure of real destitu-
tion. But as to the great question of giving relief to able-
bodied labourers, and the means of providing for them when
out of work, it was obvious that there must be some check ap-
plied, or the whole population might come on the poor-rates.
In this count ry—in England—that cheek is the poor-housecheek.
lu Scotland they gave voluntary aid and assistance, and 15,0001,
or 16,000/. was frequently given for the relief of the poor.