The Sun.
London, England, 1827-03-09 00:00:00

CATHOLICS.

The Bishop of PETERBOROUGH presented a
petition from the Dean and Chapter of Peterborough, praying
their Lordships to grant no further concessions to the Catholics.
Lord CARBERY presented a similar petition
from the Clergy of the county of Cork. His Lordship, on pre-
senting the petition, said a few words, which were quite inau-
dible below the bar.

Lord COLCHESTER presented a similar peti-
tion from some place in Kent.
Lord KING said he had several petitions to present
from persons who described themselves as forming part of that
mass of people who were. the most poor and wretched of any in
Europe—the Catholics of Ireland. The first petition he would
present, however, was full of loyalty, as if it had been drawn up
under the sanction of the Noble and Learned Lord on the Wool-
sack, and contained more charity than the petition just presented
by the Noble Lord (Carhery), and signed by several clergymen ;
and, he believed, more charity than if it had been drawn up by
the whole Bench of Bishops.—The petition was then read. It
was from the Roman Catholics of Boyle, in the county of Ros-
common, in Ireland.

Viscount LORTON did not rise to oppose receiv-
ing the petition, but he was anxious to make a few observations,
because that petition might bring him as a culprit to the bar. It
would appear from a speech which had been made in another
place, which, if he might be permitted to read. (Order, order.)
He meant not to refer to any speech delivered in the Lower House
of Parliament, but to one spoken in the Roman Catholic Parlia-
ment, that he was to be denounced. That speech had been pub-
lished in their own paper, and he begged leave to read it to their
Lordships. His Lordship then read, from a Dublin paper, a pas-
sage from a speech of Mr. O'Connell's, on moving a Resolution at
a meeting of the Catholic Association, concerning. Lord Lorton,
in which his Lordship was spoken of as having attempted to con-
trol the right to petition, which had been secured by the Revolu-
tion of 1688, holding him up as a great enemy to the Catholics,
and as having falsely attributed to them conduct which they had
never been guilty of, and words they had never uttered. Their
Lordships would see, from this specimen, what were the pro-
ceedings of the Irish Roman Catholic Parliament. They were
in themselves only laughable, and would deserve only to be
laughed at, if it were not for the effects which such denuncia-
tions had over the minds and actions of a deluded population.
From such denunciations the inference would be drawn that he
was a proscribed person, a tyrant of the Catholics, and hostile to
the rights of the people. The, whole arose from a conversation he
had had with some of his tenantry, in which lie had recommended
them not to interfere with the petition which was then gettinc, up,
as they had signed the general petition, which would be presented by
the Duke of Buckingham. No threat had been used, and they
parted good friends, but he had recommended them not to at-
tend a meeting which was to take place on the Sunday. The
meeting took place at the Roman Catholic Chapel, presided by
the Coadjutor Priest, and it was attended by three persons who
had no connection with the town. After abusing him, they
agreed to that petition, which their Lordships had just heard read,
and of which he congratulated the Noble Lord on his safe deliver-
ance. It was not necessary for him to trouble their Lordships
further, but he would merely remark, that the Dublin Conven-
tion was the great source of all the disturbances which, existed in
Ireland, and they caused all the miseries of that unfortunate
country. He had resided there twenty-seven years, and on no
occasion had be ever made any distinction between a Protestant
and a Catholic, either as a landlord, a master of a family, or as
isk officer commanding a regiment. Me wished only to cld, that
their Lordships:its:ell', knew the leaders of the Associsja,imi were,
Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Lawless, and the latter was the Editor
of a newspaper called Time Irishman. At a late meeting he hid
said, " that if the speech attributed to Lord Lorton were spokes"
by him—if he had said that the Protestants were persecuted by
the Catholics, he was a liar." This was the language used in the
Catholic Parlianient. He knew that these gentlemen were
anxious for nototiey, which
..he did not mean to confer on them.
He should be sorry to make them of consequence. He thought
proper, however, to mention their conduct ; if other -measures
were taken against him, he should know how to defend himself,
and he was_not afraid. He would only remark, that it behoved
their Lordships to put down this Roman Catholic Parliament,
which resembled that National Convention from which all the
mischief had sprung. It was, in his opinion, an indelible dis-
grace on the Government of Ireland, that this Association was
not put down.—(Hear.)
Lord ELLENBOROUGH begged to remind the
Noble Lord, that Parliament had passed an Act to put it down,
and had completely failed in the attempt, and would fail, till the
cause which called it into existence was removed.—(Hear, hear.)
—lf the Noble Viscount wished to give consequence to the indi-
viduals he had mentioned, there was no better way to do it than
the one he had adopted, of mentioning them in the House of
Lords. Nothing but the notice taken of them could possibly raise
them into distinction.
Viscount LORTON explained, that it was easy
for Noble Lords, %.-ho did not live in Ireland, and who had,
perhaps, never visited Ireland, to make fine speeches, and to ex-
press such confidence ; but theoretical men were not able to
form a correct olinion of the matter, and none but practical men
could do so. He exhorted the Noble Lord not to make speeches
from theory. Before he attempted to speak of Ireland, he ought
to visit the country, and remain there a year or two, and if he
resided there he would come to a different opinion. It was dif-
ficult for him to keep his temper, when Noble Lords, who knew
nothing of Ireland, but what they might have heard in the
streets, or gathered in that House—(hear, hear,)—got tip and
made speeches attempting to put him down. He threw himself on
their Lordships. It was not possible that he should not take
some notice of what was said and done in Ireland ; and his friends
there had requested him to bring the persons he had mentioned
to their Lordships' Bar, which he certainly would not do. All
the evils arose from the Association being suffered to exist, and
they ought to take the bull by the horns and put down the As-
sociation.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH had not spoken from
theory—had not spoken from ignorance. He had visited Ire-
land ; he had been there more than once ; he had lived seven or
eight months in Ireland ; be had been present at a Meeting of
the Convention, when an important subject was discussed—the
Education of the People ; and he would say, that any thing
more wretched than the speeches he had never heard—any thing
more contemptible than the Assembly he had never visited.
He spoke, therefore, not from theory ; he had seen the men ;
and nothing could give them consequence but taking notice of
them.
Viscount LORTON said, it was of no use his
troubling their Lordships further, for if he spoke till he was tired
he should not convince the Noble Lord.
Lord REDESDALE said, the Convention was
the chief cause of all the ferment that was kept up in Ireland ;
and if it were not put down, it would involve the country in
civil war and rebellion.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, it had not
been his intention to trouble their Lordships by making any ob-
servations on the subject to which the petition referred, till it came
regularly before their Lordships, when he hoped their Lordships
would attempt to lay the matter at rest ; and he hoped and trusted
that the Noble Marquess who had given notice of a motion on this
subject, would not abandon his intention, and would give
their
Lordships an opportunity of deciding what they would do. He
would not have troubled their Lordships, he said, hail it not been
for the personal allusion of his Noble Friend (Lord King), if lie
would allow him to call him so, though he had never acted other-
wise than with hostility to him (the Lord Chancellor), though
he had always acted friendly towards the Noble Baron, who, on
presenting the petition, called on the Learned Lord on the Wool-
sack. The Noble Baron had said, that the petition did not con-
tain one word of which he did not approve, when,' in fact, there
was not one word in it which he did not reprobate. Of the
conduct of the Catholic Convention, to which allusion bad been
made, he knew nothing ; nor could their Lordships know
any thing, unless the subject came before them them to lees-