Star.
London, England, 1808-02-09 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The SFr AIC Ell having taken the Chair at the usual hour,
On the motion of Mr. L. FOSTER, writs were ordered for the
Boroughs of F.nnis and Tralee, in Ireland, in the room of the
Right Hon. James Fitzgerald and Mr. E. CM!, who have accept-
ed the Escheatorships of Munster and Leinster.
An Officer from the Commissioners appointed to inquire re-
specting the Debte of the late Nabob of Arcot presented their
third Report. Ordered to lie on the Table.
Lord MILTON presented a Petition from the confined Debtors
in the Gaol of Rotheram, Yorkshire, praying relief by an Insolvency
Bill. Ordered to lie on the Table.
Mr. J. FOSTER presented a Petition from the Trustees of the
Catholic College at Maynooth, in Ireland, pr.. ing for a Bill to
extend their libarty of purchasing Laßefierred to a Com-
mittee.

EXPEDITION TO THE DARDANELLLS, &C.
Mr. T. GRENVILLE called to the recollection of the House
a motion he had made a few days since, for the production of some
documents relative to the dispatches of Lord Collingwood to him-
self, when first Lord of the Admiralty, respecting the Expeditions
to the Dardanelles and Alexandria ; and he wished now to know
whetter Ministers had decided, whether they would grantall those
papers, or whether they meant to spend the intervening days. till
Thursday next, in considering what papers they would grant.—
The House would recollect that the late Ministry were removed,
pending the progress of those expeditions ; and they would also
recollect, that all the dispatches front Naval Commanders are
adoressed to the First Lord of the Admiralty, who may, if he
chooses, lay them before the Board of Commissioners, where they
become matters of record. One of the letters he wished for, was
front Lord Collingwood, inclo.;ing Sir Thomas Louis's report to
him of his arrival at the Dardanelles on the sth of December ; and
the others were, two letters addressed to him from Alexandria.
lie understood that, as a matter of course, Lord Collingwoud's
letter was laid before the Board ; but as he himself had left his
situation before the arriviii of those letters, he felt it hi:, duty to
call for them to be laid before the House. He hoped he should
be allowed to see them ; and then he should be able to judge how
far it might be necessary for him to call for others.
Mr. CANNING had no objection to the production of the

PiTers required.
COPENHAGEN DISPATCHES.

Mr. WHITBREAD rose, pursuant to the notice
given on Friday, to move for copies of some letters
from which the Right Hon. Secretary (Mr. Can-
ning) had read extracts, during the debate on Thurs-
day last. In what the Right Hon. Gentleman had
said this night, he had further avowed himself disin-
clined to private communications, although he had
not the same objections respecting the dispatches now
mentioned, as with respect to those which he himself
had required on a former night, and in reference to
which the Right Hon. Gentleman requited the for-
mality of a notice. The Orders of the House, how-
ever, required no such formality, any Member being
competent to move at any time for official documents,
which he might think necessary for the information of
Parliament. For his own part, he should neither
court nor desire private communication. His object
was to obtain fall information for the House, where the
garbling of that information had been highly offensive
to the feelings of a Noble Friend of his in another
House. He had now to complain that the Rigbt
Hon. Gentleman had practised suppression, in the
vindication of his own conduct in the Copenhagen
affair, to a length wholly unprecedented in Parlia-
mentary usage, and had also resorted to materials
for that vinckcation, which, he believed, no man in
any public situation would have done, but himself;
he alluded to the teading of extracts from the public
dispatches of his predecessors in office, in a manner
so garbled as just to answer his own momentary pur-
pose, and to make the meaning of those dispatches
appear precisely the reverse of what the writer in-
tended, and which the very next paper, betbre or
after, if read at the same time, would have obviously
shewn. He recollected that, in the last war, a Noble
Lord, now in the other House (Lord Grenville) did,
in vindication of his public conduct on a similar occa-
sion, read certain extracts from documents in his
hand, which he afterwards refused to produce. The
conduct of the Noble Lord was then strongly repro-
bated ; and he was charged with that which he now
charged upon the Right Honeurable Gentleman,
• namely, that he read them in such a way as to change
totally the meaning of the writer. This, however,
' was a proceeding to which he believed Mr. Pitt would
have scorned to resort ; nor did he ever recollect an
instance of the kind in the whole of that statesman's
public conduct. A Noble Viscount, not now in the
House, had, he believed, done something in a simi-
lar way ; but it had been carried by the Right Hon.
Gentleman to a length before unparalleled ; not only
having the effect of mistating and perverting the in-
tention of his predecessors, but amounting to an
abuse of that public confidence, of which he was the
depository, pregnant with serious mischiefs to the
country. He was bound, by the most sacred obli-
gation, not to make use of the public dispatches
of his predecessors, for the purposes cf mere recri-
mination, and more especially not to give those
dispatches a meaning in the eyes of Europe totally
different from their real import and intent ; the
more so, because other nations would not suspect that
these documents could be so grossly misconstrued by a
person filling so high a station. He had the authority
of the Noble Person who had written these dispatches,
for saying that his feelings were extremely hurt on
the occasion ; that he felt he was entitled to that com-
plete vindication of his conduct which the production
of the letters themselves would afford. H id the Noble
Person been present at the debate of Wednesday, he
was confident those extracts would not have been read;
or if they had, they would have been as flatly contra-
dicted es the papers just moved for by his Right Hon.
Friend would contradict what had been said respect-
ing the Dardanelles. But, however easily the cha-
racters and conduct of Lord Grey and Lord Hutchin-
son might be vindicated by their power of contra-
dicting on the spot the insinuations of the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman, the same opportunity was not
afforded to Mr. Garlike, whose credit and character
at the Court where he was resident must be injured in
the tenderest points, and charged with thegrossest du-
plicity and misrepresentation. For notwithstanding
he tells the Court of Denmark, that he will commu-
nicate to his Court the declared determination of the
Crown Prince to defend his neutrality at all events
against France, and even against England, and that
if- he is beaten from his Get-man dominions, he will
retreat to his islands, yet the British Minister for Fo-
reign affairs pleads the dispatches cf Mr. Garhk and
reads from them extracts to justify has conduct in the
attack of Copenhagen. If, then, the Crown Prince
attaches any credit to the Minister for Foreign Af!

Garlike
practice
of Mr.
of recrimination which had of late prevailed on both
Whitbreadhat next must
p r o he
proceeded thinked to a
deprecate Mr C h
sides of the House, and which had no other effect than
to divert the House from the subjects in discussion.
Better were it to appoint at once a fair and full inves-
tigation of measures which appeared to be reprehen-
sible in the conduct of Ministers or their predecessors,
than mix those subjects irrevalently with otherdebates,
He was ready to admit the occasional impolicy and
danger of laying the whole of the dispatches before
the House, and lie would allow that his Noble Friends
ought not to demand the production of documents,
even for the vindication of their own conduct, if they
conceived there was any thing improper in the dis-
closure. But in the present case no inconvenience
whatever could arise. He concluded, by moving for
a copy of the dispatches of Lord Howick to Mr.
Garlike, dated the 3d of December, 1806, and the
answer of Mr. Garlike thereto.
Mr. CANNING spoke in answer to Mr. Whit-
bread. Upon the subject of private communications,
he had received a pretty good lesson from the Ho-
nourable Member and his friends ; for after having in
his speech given the fullest information in his power
on the subject of Copenhagen, and offered by pri-
Ivate communication to give any farther satisfaction
required, he met with nothing but reproof and rebuff.
IHe expressed regret that the Noble Lord alluded to
should have his feelings hurt, while he, far from cen-
suring his conduct, fully approved of it, and, in fact,
conceived the measures adopted by himself and his
colleagues, were merely following up the plan so ably
chalked out for them by their predecessors. As to
ithe papers required, he must draw a distinction. One
Ipart he could produce ; but the production of the
I other part would be imprudent. With respect to the
extracts lie had read, he deemed them essential to the
proof of a particular point, and had not read them
with the purposes imputed to him, of mis-statement
or perversion. His Majesty's late Ministers directed
a communication to he made to the Danish Coart,
I that his Majesty would consider as hostile any com-
promise with France for the surrender of her navy. It
was in the same spirit, and in the contemplation of
such a compromise, that his Majesty's present Mini-
sters had acted ; and hence he could not conceive
how the feelings of the Noble Lord could be offended.
If the Noble Lord had not copies of his own dispatches
while in office, he was cer:ainly entitled to them, not
merely as matters of courtesy, but of right, and should
be furnished with such copies if he desired them.
Lord TEMPLE reprehended the conduct of the
Right Hon. Secretary, in reading garbled extracts
; from the dispatches of his predecesssors, on the same
grounds with Mr. Whitbread.
Mr. HE RBE RT rose to express his conviction of
the impropriety of refusing to Parliament, at any
time, papers relating to important affairs of state,
when there was no danger to be apprehended from
their production. He considered Ministers as now
brought to the bar of public opinion, their character
was at stake, the °nu: probandi lay on them impera-
tively and exclusively. They had endeavoured to
prove the necessity they were under of acting as they
had done ; but this plea, like that of an alibi in law,
was either the best or the worst. If in any essential
part it failed, it involved the person who resorted
to it in the suspicion of subornation or deceit. The
Ministers had failed in substantiating their case by
documents ; it was not then fair to expect from the
House a profound reverence to the opinion of Mini-
sters, and aisubservient acquiescence in the acknow-
ledgment of a proposition, as yet destitute of any ar-
gument to support it, but that drawn from the expe-
diency of confiding in those at the head of affairs.
The SECRETARY at WAR spoke shortly in
vindication of the seizure of the Danish fleet. He
said, the case did not rest so much in the willingness
or unwillingness of Denmark to snrrender the fleet to
France, as in the determination and power of France
to seize it, if the opportunity of preventing it had
been deferred by this country.
Mr. TIERNEY said, the papers ought in justice
to be laid before the House, as passages read from
them could not be a criterion of the whole, and there-
fore could not justify the conduct of Ministers in the
attack on Copenhagen. It was a dangerous precedent
for a Minister to read an extract, and then to refuse
to communicate the whole, as it might lead the pub-
lic to suppose the Noble Lord (Howick) had enter-
tained an idea that the Danes were hostile to this
country. It was said, that if these papers were pro-
duced, they would prove an injury to the public ser-
vice. The Hon. Gentleman contended that their
disclosure could do no injury. The Noble Lord was
particularly anxious that the letter should be made
public, as it would be seen Ministers could not, from
the slightest idea contained in it, ground their pre-
tensions in commencing hostilities against Denmark.
If Ministers brought forward these letters, he si-ouldl
take upon himself to move a vote of censure on their
conduct.
Mr. LOCKHART thought it the duty of Mini.
sters not to sit down quietly in hourly expectation of
the death and interment of the British dominions, by
permitting Denmark to co-operate with all her powers
with France against this country.
Mr. HORNER hoped, since the Right Hon. Se-
cretary had admitted the letter alluded to as evidence
in his defence, he would produce it complete, to prove
he had not made an improper use of it. He was con- I
cerned to observe the dignified charaeter alluded to
so unjustly calumniated by the Ministry, but most ofi
all concerned to find our late faithful allies contemp-
tuously sneered at, and their sufferings unfeelingly
disregarded.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, since he had.heard Gentlemen call for a Parlia-
mentary ground for refusing the information dc-
mantled, he would suggest, that the strongest Par-
liamentary
ground for refusal, had ever been weak- .1
ness in the claim itself preferred to the House, It
ti
noodcn tiwouldmtv bei
atnehdt
without
been
ux et.
oaumnlodevl
beyre
urgentandinjudiciousextremelyo necessity.ve ra
again
give such informa- i
n No
improper
s tasteutdcol, such
that
kdte exist,psuu3h,
lic, for the most obvious reasons. He avowed, that
no such inference as had been stated to have been
drawn by his Right Honourable Friend, from Lord
Howick's letters, had ever been attempted to be made
by him, or could possibly be made by any one from
those letters. His Right Hon. Friend had only made
use of them to shew that the possibility of 'Den-
mark's yielding up Zealand and her fleet to France,

in consequence of the capture of Holstein
/sower, was not without foundation. The
in the official note, that if Zealand became
the power of France, his Britannic Majesty
never be induced to acquiesce in the -
amounted to the whole of what his
Friend had advanced on a former night, nit*
apprehension entertained. Such concessions.'
ever, he thought, be attended with inconv
and only lead to others equally idle.
Mr. WINDHAM professed himself firth?'
tergiversations and changings of this '
nistry. They had thrice, he observed,
ground of defence already. If at length
be reduced to any palpable form, he was
join issue with them, and proceed to trial
dence they had submitted to the House. Them
sufficient to condemn them in the eyes of
men. The Ministers had for a long time
their defence the collusion of Denmark wit
of France ; this they had now totally
the Right Honourable Chancellor of the
had most unintelligibly attempted to reconi
sertions of his Right Honourable 'friend 01
occasion, with the admission he found ro
make this evening. How candid and fai
have been to say, " here are the
deceived you andilie country, w.: are axi,
reparation, by giving you all the informal
power." He was allXlolli this conductshottli
for the exculpation of the foul charges of
brought against his Noble Friend, by thi
tion of garbled statements and extracts,
documents. If report was not a great liar,
Honourable Gentleman had already crept
• by means of a similar artifice last year; In
fore a proper object of general suspicion,
now be anxious to maintain, by a consistei
duct, his ill-gotten treasures.
Sir JOHN ORDE supported the argumi
Right Hon. Secretary.
Mr. LYTTLETON thought it his dot
from the Ministry on the production of t
though he had, on a former evening, he
ported them. A conviction cf the propriety
solving a most respectable character, lateh
house, from any imputation of deceit or it
formed the grounds of his oppostion to
occasion.
Mr. SHERIDAN said, he had oh,
great ploasure, that the challenge given'
exultation and triumph, had produced a
effect on several Members of the House.
thod of silencing, by challenging the Hote
position of internal strength, instead of
guments in confirmation of a propositioi
hoped, by the reception it might this
with, chastise the arrogance of present.
statesmen. Were it left to him to condui
tack on the authors of the late unprincii-
against the laws of nations, he would me
tinct censures on their conduct ; the first',
and unprincipled denial of the necessary
the second for their criminal conduct, as
pear even on the evidence they had affc
House. The conversion of his Honoi
did him honour; had the House been
ed, he believed the Honourable Gent
not have been singular in deserting
of candour, honour, and principle.
of similar outrage on national justice
found in the British annals. In si
demand should be made to Parliament
to act on confidence. In the late war
Ministers came prepared to give satisf.
of her hostile intentions, before ever the,
j supplies. What had been urged
by the Right Honourable Gentlent
on this and former nights, was n(
libel on the good faith of the tried
Britain. That France wished to disnak
from our alliance, he granted ; but der.;
to compel her to acquiesce ; and nougl.
force could distract that country from
The insinuation against the veracity au
of his Noble Friend, he treated with col
Noble Lord was above the reach of tin
Mr. Garlike, he understood, felt severe)
the misrepresentation of his corresponder
timents were quite distant from hostility
or apprehension cf hostility on their j
criminal in the Right Hon. Gentleman
man, whose character had endearei'
Danes, and whose character had even
from confinement when taken prison,
chery and hypocrisy. This Gentles ar
on a future day, been the successful
this country with Denmark. The con
ters had been altogether inconsistent,
and unworthy of confidence; he hoped
House would compel them to give
required.
Mr. SHARPE deprccated the cor dui
and pledged himself to support the V'
if no one else would.
Mr. WHITBREAD was ashamed
inconsistencies of the Ministers in t
They were worse than inconsistencies
(shameful to say) impositions fabri,
one time he thought they wished to caj
to give them their approbation—at
wished to brave and frighten the "
the country into acquiescence. HI
while his Right Hon. friend brought a
against them, he hoped he would brio!
the House, when he would add a third,
inefficiency of their attempts on Copenha)
paltry result of their breach of good
I:tws of justice and morality.
Mr. LYTTLETON, and Secretary
rose to explain.
Mr. MONTAGUE rose ; but
echoed with the cry of 44 questii
coughing; so that we were only able
spoke against the motion,
The House then divided, when there
For the production of the Papers,
157.—Majority against their being gran
NOTICE.
Mr. SHARPE said, he would soon '
tunity of submitting to the House a •
on the late conduct of his Majesty's Mi

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street. P 41611.411.0 -.t the STAR.OFf

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