The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-22 00:00:00

income tax to the exclusion of his Coin Bill.— (Hear.)
The Right Hon. Baronet; a week ago, had- said that
the whole country was agog=—(A laugh)-for his Corn
Bill. That such was the anxiety of the trade, that no
corn could be sold tintil the question was
, settled, and in that ' assertion he believed the Right
.Honourable Baronet was quite correct, and yet
the Right Hon. Baronet was now trying night after
night to press forward the income tax to the exclusion of
the Corn Bill.—(Opposition cheers.) Whatever neces-
sity there might be for hurrying forward the Corn Bill,
few people were in such a confounded hurry for
an income tax.—(Cheers and laughter.) The Right
Honourable Baronet in hurrying forward this mea-
sure of the income tax was not acting fairly by
the House, and it was not the first time that
lie (Mr. C. Buller) had observed that sort of unfair con-
duct on the part of the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Cheers.)
The Right Hon. Baronet was trying to coerce the House
into a precipitate consent to the income tax, in order to
~et at the Corn Bill.—(Loud Opposition cheers.) The
lOt, jArb,n, Baronet had said the Corn Bill had been
ki4ect _(Criesip,p.eo,l4.7.4ltix,-.much. of " No, no," from
' '-' Hon. Baronet had
Si?,e /Arils. 0141 bPAches) The hags._ . ' • P-serteen
Ad that the quesrten had been debated for .......
nights, and from his saying that he (Mr. Buller)
eoncluded the Right Honourable Baronet meant
to sat that it had been debated too much.—(" No
$lO, from the Ministerial benches.) Oh, then
the 134ght Honourable Baronet had meant it,
had been. dehe.ted too little.—(Loud laughter.) There
was one point of the greatest importance in taking the.
averagLe which had never been discussed at all yet. He
hoped- the Hume would not be hurried into any
decision on the income tax, in order to get at the Corn
Bill.—(Hear, hear.) If the Right Hon. Baronet was
really desirous of forwarding the Corn Bill, he had the
remedy in his own hands, by giving the Corn„Bill prece-
&lap of the income tax that evening.—(Cheers.)
Sir R. vggli 941, that . although the Corn Bill had
been debated siltteen nights, it had not been de-
bated too long, Wean* thp malt of the debate
had been that the country had boeome IPOP Pa More
satisfied with his measure.—(Cheers,) lie bad said that
as soon as the estimates should be voted, he would pro.
aeatil vitt} his financial measure. That announcement
had giv*ai tibog refftost satisfaction. He was acting exactly
as he had said'he W,oul,d. It was of the utmost import-
ami thatasthat° fwihouetsheesir;iorOninod arg.b4ee.leo°4
,:iiri4dit:eolyistto express an
be
Irftpesed.
opinion,
It was most imp67tant that the opinion of the HRuie` siol4 he
expressed at the earliest :ieriod upon a proposition 4'0;1144
taxation,. for the year, 4s
form the foundation of our system ~.1
he consideration
to any imputation that he wished to keep bac. !
of the Corn Bill, and to deprive the country of the great aeiVaili
tages he auticipatedfrom that nkeasure he had only to say that he
had done every thing in his power to );0ri..4 the iiii immediately
it
before the House, and to indtiee the ,cranat4 :0, ter 9irgitri
(Sir C. Napier) to allow him to introduite the au Itect 'on t?.-
morrow night. But on those nights devoted to pnblic-bnsi;
ness, be said it firmly, but respectfully, it was his intention to
proceed with the preiiminary resolution upon the income tax
before the Corn-law BR.
Lord J. RUSSELL said dig toe Aoyght the Right Hon.
Gentleman had fallen into a slight error xilop hp "aid that
when he determined to introduce the resolution rogly,e to the
incometax, and to take the sense of the House en that kiib..-
ieet, he found that there was a general wish that he should pre-
ceed with the measure. The subject which the House wished
to hear was the ststeinent on the part of the Right Honour-
able Gentleman of hie genera) financial plans, and of the com-
mercial alterations which he centempritted.—( Hear, hear. )
For his own part he agreed with his kiceleAraPl!t Friend, that
if the public interest was solely to be considered it would he
mast desirable to proceed immediately with the consideration
of the Corn-laws. With respect to the average., two ho
never yet been considered in detail, and which could not pro-
perly be discussed except in Committee, nothing whatever had
been done. With regard to the iecorne tax there was no
doubt an anxiety prevailing throughout .the wintry that
paople should kaow the amount of the tax to he levied. • But
ever body was now pretty well prepared as to the sap they
should have to jay, and whether the resolution was taken into
consideration alitelecarlier or a little later did not seem to him
to be of so much importanze. The Right Hon. Gentleman
might take his own course upon t4e subject, but he (Lord J.
Rosa) could only say for himself iitst he would certainly
divide** House—hrst on the resolution, and afterwards on the
Report ; on the first reading, on the second reading, and on the
third reading.—(Cheers and counter cheers.)
\Sir R. PEEL said that he had heard with some regret the
coons which the Noble Lord proposed to pursue ; but, at the
same time, that regret was somewhat it;alAed by the announce-
ment made by the Noble Lord that, even tefpre the House
came to a decision on the matter, every one knew 4.0 he
would have to pay at was to say, that the proposition was
so reasonable.—(Hear, lieg, laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh.")
It was so necessary for the pub :Ike interest, that without waiting
for the decision of the House, every mang could know what was
the amount which he would have to pay.—(Ranered laugh-
ter from the Opposition benches.)
The House then resolved itself into a Committee of Ways
and Means, Mr. Genairix in the chair.
Mr. HAWES then rose arch said, the announcement which
the Noble Lord on that side of the House had made of his de-
termination to offer every Parliamentary appesitjon to the im-
position of this odious and unjust system of taxati4n was one
which he firmly believed would be hailed with satisfaction hy
thousands out of do4rs, If the Right Hon. Gentleman had
really made out a case for reserting to an income tax, if he had
hewn that the national honour abaeletely demanded it, or that
the national credit was at at stake withotit it, then he believed
no opposition would have been offered to it. But ,:t was not
merely the ground that the Treasury was empty which iivotild
justify a resort to the income tax. He firmly believed that
if a fair consideration had been given last year to the measures
of her Majesty's late Government, with respect to the
corn, sugar, and timber duties, they would not have
stood in need of an income tax. Rait the Right Ho.
noarable Baronet had refused to debate thou weitions, and
he now found himself reduced to the necessity ofresoirting to a
tax the most odious and unjust that could possibly be proposed;
Ile believed there never was a truer remark than that of the
Noble Lord, the Member for Sunderland, the other night, that
nothing could be more injurious and unwise at the present time
than to support the national credit by an income tax. Let
tradesmen be called upon to disclose their affairs—let bankers
be called upon to risk their credit—let merchants be called
upon to expose all the secrets of their transactions, and he he,
lieved thatiu a 'short time there would be such an expression a
feeling on the pert of the public as no Government, however
strong, would be able to resist. The Right Hon. Gentleman
told them that he intended to, introduce certain modifications
into his Bill. When the second property tax was proposed by
Lord Bexley in 1815, he propped to reduce it from 10 to 5
per cent., and he proposed various modifications. The 1117.is-
try bad a large majority ; yet such was the popular feeling on
the subject, that at length the tax was refused, and it was de.
flounced by one of the most eloquent Members of that House as
one, the remnants and records of Mitch were only fit to he
destroyed by the hands of the common b.anginan.—(Cheers.)
The city of London then teemed with petitions against the
tax. In fact, it would be impossible to conduct the nisa4.l4ll,
without adopting the most odious inquisitorial proceedings, and
these he was convinced the eople of England would have too
much spirit to submit to.— Hear, hear.) One of the petitions
3
at that time was from the ord Mayor and Corporation of the
City of London. The Lord Mayor's words were, " That even
if the amount of the tax were reduced from 10 to 5 per cent.
its odious and inquisitorial principle would be unchanged ; itt.
deed, that it would become more galling." In this opinion he
( Mr. Hawes) concurred, as the smallness of the tax would
.. - e the inquisitors scattered over the country to be more
iiisisitive into the private affairs of people in order to collect
it. The Right Bor.. Baronet opposite taunted them, who had
repealed twenty-two millions of taxation, with now unfeelingly
refusing to consent to a tariff that would greatly cheapen the
means of living to the people. The party opposite would now
claim great credit for feeling for the people; yet the very tax
they now proposed presented the strongest contrast to such a dis-
position. The Right Hon. Baronet was not justified in isepnting
elotives to Hon. Members for their opposition to the income tax.
The whole history of that tax—the progress of public opinion
against it would justify any Hoe, Member in offering the most
strenuous opposition to it. What neoe.nity was there for hay-
ing an income tax? Were they to be shut out
. .

from the advantages derivable from a repeal of the
sugar duties, the duties on the importation of corn anti
on timber? All the advocates of an alteration in the

timber duties advocated that alteration with the intention of

having the price reduced to the consumer and the revenue de•

rived from chat source increased. With respect to the quotation
made by the Right Hon. Baronet from Sir H, Parnell, if the
Right Hon. Baronet had proceeded further with the quotation
it would be seen that Sir H. Parnell had said, that if the titer
her duties were altogether removed the shipowners would be
materially benefitted thereby. But let them see what
was actually done, because when they talked of a great
coercion, it was desirable to know what that coercion
was. The new mode of levying the duty on timber,
was equivalent to laying on a considerable duty on timber.
Compared with the proposal of the Committee of 133,5, the
altered mode of taking the averages w ould make a difference of the
discriminating duty between foreign and colonial timber of 245.
If this large discriminating duty be maintained a large amount
of revenue would be sacrificed, and the only thing that could
justify a discriminating duty was to get a revenue. Here was
a large amount of revenue destroyed, while at the same time a
large colonial protectien was also destroyed. He said, there-
fore, that they had no right to shut him out from the revenue
that may be derived from lowering the duties on timber, and
impose an income tax.—( Hear.) He had clearly a right to
the tax that might be derived from timber. He should also
quote those authorities which Gentlemen opposite must have
considered when they were preparing their parts. Mr.
ltl'Gregor, in the evidence which he gave on the subject before
a Committee of the House, said " That he would propose a
duty of 7s. 6d. or: colonial timber, and 225. 6d. on foreign
timber, and that he expected to raise a revenue of 1,000,0001.
—( Hear, hear.) Such would be the increase of consump-
tion which would take place on an alteration of the duty."—
(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Hawes) believed that the con-
sumption would be so great that they would derive a re-
venue of nearly 1,000,0004 ; but he would take it at
half a million. The Right lion. Gentleman had remarked
the other night that the question was one between an income
saye
voo n t
etdh e a subject,
great
tax and other sources of increasing the revenue. He hoped
(Mr.
What did
Hawes) Mr.
knew Dea contoHu
that would be the question, and it was in that light that he
haveme d
regarded
he deit.(
deal of labour and thought on it. He gave his evidence
bifore the Timber Committee in 1834, and he proposed to ob-
tain a.quarter of amillion of revenue by an alteration of the duty.
He (Mr. Hawes) was acquainted with Mr. Hume in public and
private life ; and he knew that up to the last hour of his life, he
was an advocate for an improved adjustment of the tariff. With
regard to sugar, the Right Hon. Baronet said that he could not
taice the subject into his consideration at present, because he
did not know how far it would encourage slavery in the Brazils
and elsewhere. He (Mr. H.) wished to know whether it was
the object to give a monopoly to the West India interest or to
reject the alteration of the duty on sugar, on account of its
being slave produce. if the former, why cid they not say so
openly—if the latter, why did they reduce the tariff on tobacco,
which was also a slave-growing produce.—(Hear, hear.) The
consumpti n and revenue of sugar was the same in 1828 as
in 1841, although there was a larger increase in the populations
and a vast augm,ntation of the capital of the country ; nay,
he had it on the authoriy of one of the largest sugar refiners of
in
London, that the consumption 1840 was less than the con-
sumption
in ltte)B and when he was told that the quantity of
imported was increased, his ( Mr. Hawes s) answer was,
the population also was increased, and if they compared
the consumption of sugar for the last ten years, a considerable
faliiag off would be found to have taken place, the increase in
tl.e population of the country being considered.—(.Hear, hear.)
If they excluded slave-grown produce because it was slave-
grown, let them act on the same principles with regard to
other articles, the produce of slave-grown labour, but if
they intend to uphold the West Indian monopoly, then he said
that they had received too much from the people of this
country. Let them give their Colonies
the benefits of free
trade, and let them act towards them on those principles, and
they would then be able to compete with those who produce
slave-grown sugar in any part of the world. He exacted they
would derive from that a revenue of 500,0001. The Right.
Hon. Gentleman had never told them the revenue he expected
to derive from corn, and that it was difficult to make a calcu-
tion on the subject ; but they might test the value of his Lam.