The Sun.
London, England, 1827-05-12 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, MA.V. 11.

The SPEAKER took the Chair ,precisely at Four
o'clock, at which time there was a thin attendance of
Members in the body of the House ; but the strangers'
gallery, and all the avenues leading to it, were crowded to
excess.

Sir JAME% SCARLETT and Mr. STURGES Botraxx took
the oaths and their seats, upon their re-election.
Col. LINDSAY moved that the Committee on the
Perth Navigation Bill should have time to make their Re-
port until the 21st May.
Mr. HOME DRUMMOND opposed the motion, on the
ground of negligence on the part of the agents.
After some conversation the time was extended to
Friday next.
The time for reporting on the Edinburgh Gas Bill, was
also extended to the 21st May.
Sir R. DUNDAS presented h petition from the Lord
Provost and Town Cour..Cll of Edinburgh, respecting the
Salmon Fishery Bil 2.
Sir .1. WRP:f TESLEY presented a petition from the
Dissenters of Wolverhampton, for the repeal of the Corpor-
ation Test Acts.
/dr. LEGH KECK brought up a Bill for preventing
Bribery and Corruption at Elections, in the borough of
Penryn. The Bill .vas read a first time, and ordered to
be read a second time on Friday next.
Mr. EGERTON presented a petition flout a parish. in
Cheshire, for the repeal of the Teat Act.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the freeholders of
Forfar, in favour of the Salmon Fishery Bill.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the six wards of
Dundee, praying for a repeal of the Corn Laws.
Mr. H. HUTCHINSON presented a petition from Cork
and Kinsale, against the Salmon Fishery Bill.
Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN postponed his motion on
the Devon and Cornwall Mining Company to Tuesday next.
Sir W. GUISE l'oesented a petition from the Dissenters
of Stroud, for the repeal of the Test Act.
Mr. PEr.,-L presented a petition from the Owners of
Salmon Fisheries in Ireland, against the Salmon Fishery

Mr. BEAUMONT, seeing the Secretory of State for the
Home Department in his place, begged to► inquire whether
he was not appointed provisionally to fill the office he now
held ?

Mr. Secretary BOURNE was understood to reply, that
he did not think it his duty to answer the question thus
put to him, but he would retain the situation he held as
!ong as it was his Majesty's pleasure.
A MEMBER inquired whether Lord J. Russell had
given up all idea of bringing on the motion for the repeal
of the Test Act ?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that if the Dissenters had
communicated their desire that their claims shcAild he
brought immediately before the House, he should have felt
it his duty to 'nave brought these claims forward, but they
had deferred to the opinions of their friends.—(Hear.)

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
Upon the motion of Mr. lIERRIES, that the House
should resolve itself into a Committee of Sappiy,
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE rose to pia a question to the
Right Hon. the First Lord of the Treasury, and he hoped
that question would be argued in a courteous manner, and
in a manner that would not be unpleasant to his (Sir T.'s)
feelings. (A laugh.) It was the custom, and a useful one,
to ask questions of Ministers, end he hoped the Hon. Gent.
would feel it his duty to answer those question!. One part
of his question had been anticipated to,- an Honourable
Member, who asked whether the :secretary of State for the
Home Department, tilled his office permanently or only
provisionaliy. He (Sir T. Lethbridge) would now all,
whether the Noble Lord who filled the office et; Secretary
for Freeign Affairs filled his office ',3ei-manently ? Ile
would not yield to any man in liiyalty to his legitimate
Sovereign ; but he had no confidence in the present
Ministry—and, if the House supported him, he would
move to stop the supplies.—(Cries of Hear, hear.)—
The coalition whith had been formed was unprecedented
and unconstitutional. It was in contradiction to the prin-
ciples which had been held by every statesman of former
days. There was great talent he knew arrayed at the I
other side, but no talent could veil over the compromise
of principle which had taken place. It was a national
evil, and would be considered a national dies/ace. —(Hear.)
In the execution of his duty to his country, he was bound to
look at the statements which had been made, and he was
compelled to say, that, judging from those statements, he
believed that the Right Hon. Gentleman in forming his
Ministry, had been actuated by motives which he would
not express. There could be no doubt that it was a treaty
of place between the Right 1-1;n. Gent. and those who nos'
eat behind him. The change had been long concocted;
it wart well known that for some time past, it was con-
sidered not impossible that those Hon. Gentleman should
share power with the Right Hon. Gentleman, and support
his Government; and it was a question which he would put
to the Right Horn Gentleman, and which the country ex-
pected him to answer, whether neg,ociatione had not been
carried on between him and the heads of the Whig party, for
some time before the formation of the present Ministry.
This was a grave and important charge, and one which the
Right Hon. Gentleman, though he may now frown on
him (Sir T. Lethbridge) would one day be obliged to him
for an opportunity of denying. At first it was asserted
that six resignations had been received by the Right Hon.
Gentleman in the King's presence, then it came down to
four, and at last it appeared only two resignations were re-
ceived in the Royal presence, and that the Right Hon.
Gentleman had carried the other four in his pocket. It was
a curious, and he feared, an nnfortunate coincidence,
that the Right Hon. Gentleman should have been alone ,
with the King when his Majesty, for want of time, was
driven to confide the Administration to a man who com-
posed it on principles very different from these of Lord
Liverpool's Government. He (Sir T. Lethbridge) always
respected the Right Hon. Gentleman, but he could have no
confidence in him now that he had united himself with
those who had been for many years his avowed
opponents. He, Sir T. Lethbridge, and those who
thought as he did, were taunted with gulling the Ca-
. tholics, because they desired that the subject of the Catholic
Claims should be finally disposed of; but were not those
who led the Catholics to hope that their claims would be
granted—the persons who really gulled them—for they
were now ready to postpone the Catholic Question sine die,
and in his opinion all the hopes of the Roman Catholics
from Gentlemen opposite would end in disappointment.
The Right flon. Gentleman had certainly proved himself a
magician, and had succeeded in confounding Whigs and
Tories. He had un-Toried himself, and if those who were
behind him supported him they would can-Whig themselves.
The conduct of the Government was most extraordinary.
The Representatives of the people here sitting from
November to May and had done absolutely nothing.—
(Hear, hear.)—The Finances were to be hurried on but
net looked into, for in this burly burly, the late
Chancellor of the Exchequer had been shuffled from his
station in this House, where he was most useful, to an-
other—it was said, a higher station. In conclusion, the
Hon. Bart. recommended temperance in their discussions,
and hoped there would not be a repetition of that offensive
manner, from one side of the other, which had charac-
terised the discussion in that House on a former occasion.
Mr. CANNING rose to reply to the questions which
had been put by the Hon. Baronet. That Hon. Baronet
had a right to a reply on the present occasion, because he
had been courteous in giving notice of his intention to put
those questions, and he (Mr. C.) should always distinguish
between questions put in a hostile tone, of which notice
hail been given, and those of which no notice was given.
As the speech of the Honourable Baronet, appeared,
however, to have been intended as the basis of a
general discussion he (Mr. Canning) hoped for the indul-
gence of the House, if he should again find it necessary to
trespass; on their attention. The first question put by the Hon.
Baronet, namely, whether the two offices of Secretaries of
State for the Home and Foreign Departments were filled
permanently or only provisionally, had been put pre-
viously, at least in substance, by another Honour-
able Gentleman, the Member for Stafford (Mr. Beaumont)
and he understood it to be the intention of that Hon. Gen-
tleman to make a formal motion on the subject, as he did
not consider the reply he had received from his Right
Honourable Friend (Mr. Sturges Bourne) satisfactory.
The Hon. Gentleman was quite justified in the course he
proposed, but until that course was adopted and the motion
of the Hon. Gentleman fairly before the House, he (Mr.
Canning) was determined that neither taunts nor sarcasms
should induce him to utter a single word on the subject.
The Hon. Member for Staffordshire had determined to put
an end to what he (Mr. Canning) would call those disgust-
ing discussions by a regular motion, and for his own
part he fe't obliged to the Honourable Gentleman for
having adopted that course, and afforded him the
opportunity of explaining himself to the Holum ; but he
again repeated, that until that opportunity arrived, neither
taunts nor courtesies should induce him to enter on the dia-
eussion. The other question which the Hon. Baronet put
to him was, whether any negotiations had been carried on
between him (Mr. Canning) and the leaders of the Whig
party, previous to the period when he received his Ma-

jesty's directions for the formation of a new Ministry. The
Hon. Baronet was offended at the brevity of his answer
on a former night; but in answer to this last question of
the Hon. Baronet, he must again reply with a mono-
syllable—No.—(Loud cheers and laughter.)—He an-
swered—no—but he would not do justice to the
conduct of others, if he did not alio state, that before
this period he did not know that he would receive
the able and disinterested support of tothe individuals,
who then sat on the other eide of the House, and who
though small in number, were powerful in talents and
influence. This information, however, anti directly
contrary to a bargain for office. Ile was informed that
in the event rA his being placed at the head of the Govern-
ment, he would receive the cordial, but, it was expressly
stated, the disinterested support, of those individuals ;
hnd, some time afterwards, when he was driven to
straits,' as he most undoubtedly was, to form an
administration—when the question of place came to he dis-
cussed—it came from him arid not from them—not from
these individuals Who had previously tendered him their
Most disinterested support.—(Loud cheers.)—On one
observation of the Honourable Baronet's, he felt himself
called upon to remark. The Hon. Baronet said that lie
agreed with Mr. Canning on many political questions,
but that he could not have any degree of confidence
in him when he united himself with persons whom he only
agreed with on one question, differing on Reform and many
other subjects. It was curious, however, that the Hon.
Bart. should have been ee.lected in the cast of parts
to-night to make this charge against him (Mr. Can-
ning) for he remembered when he introduced his
Bill foe the admission of Peers to the House of Lords, the
Hon. Baronet cautioned the House, he was pleased to say,
against his (Mr. Canning's) powers of persuasion,
for that he had been led away by those powers
so much only three nights before, that he was induced to
vote against Parliamentary Reform though he was a
strenuous supporter of that measure.—(Great laughter. )
Whilst hie Hon. Friends behind him, therefore, differed
with him on only one question, the Honourable Baronet
was opposed to h're both on Reform and Catholic
emancipation. He taeught it right to make this one ob-
servation, and he should conclude by giving the Hon.
Baronet credit for the good temper he had evinced on this
occasion, and by thanking his Hon. Friend (Mr. Beau-
mont) for giving him the opportunity of coming fairly be-
fore the House on this subject, and putting an end to this
unsatisfactory discussion.,--(Loud cheers.)
The Marquis of tAVISTOCK said, that the real ques-
tion which they had to decide was, should they give a fair
hearing and patient trial to the Administration formed by
the Right Hon. Gentleman, in obedience to the commands
of the King ? For his own part, he had no inclination for
power, nor had he talents for office. It had been his
anxious wish in the late changes to avoid all negotiations
till the arrangements were perfected, reserving to himself,
under any circumstances, full power to adhere to those
principles which it had been the business of his whole life
to defend.—(Cheers.)—Long as he had bop opposed to
the sate Government, and much as he had differed from the
Right Hon. Gentleman, he trusted that he never should be
led to oppose him or his Government, right or wrong,
without reference to the nature of their measures.—
(Cheers.)—He did not wish to unite himself to either of
the great parties ; but where he saw gentlemen so prema-
ture in their opposition, so suddenly pledging themselves to
plans of hostility and embarrassment so exclusively personal
—he had almost said so rancorous to the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman--(Cheers)--not having the patience to wait for mea-
sures, nor the decency to abstain from throwing dirt on one
who was for so long a time their leader--(Very loud and
animated cheers)—on one under whom they had so lately
served--(Cheers)—when he saw, as the Hon. Member for
Stafford had well said, Toryism in its most hideous shape,
raising its frightful form among them—(Cheers)—with all
his inclination to watch vigilantly the conduct of every man
in Administration, and much as he was moved by the
spirit of opposition, of which he could not even now en-
tirely divest himself—(Laughter)—he should he wanting in
public duty if he aid net say, that though he could not give
a certain promise of support to the new Administration,
yet he felt decidedly inclined to oppose the measures taken
against it by the Hon. Baronet, and the two Right Hon.
Gentlemen who had thought fit to withdraw from his
Majesty's Government.—(Cheers.)—In the course of his
political life he never remembered to have witnessed
conduct so hard, to say the least of it, as that which
had been pursued towahls the Right Hon. Gentleman
and the Hon. Gentlemen who had thought proper to act
with him. He strongly objected to the anxiety which
had been shown to perplex him at the outset of his Go-
vernment--to overthrow him by an overwhelming attempt
before he got properly seated, and before he could choose
hill course ; and it strongly inclined over to that side which
seemed not to have fair play. He was certain that this
must be the feeling of all who were smarting from official
disappointment, and the pangs of mortified ambition.—
(Loud cheers.)—As to the Right Hon. Member for Ox-
ford, he did not by any means intend to class him with
the other opponents of Administration. This expression
of his sentiments, the opportunity of doing which he owed
to their kindness and patient attention, he thought due to
his eonstituen4; and he had taken this course with the
view of making it known to them. Conceiving that the
Administration was formed on principles which bid fairer
for the advantage of the country than that which preceded
it, and reserving to himself the right of opposing it only
wise- the measures of Government should lead him to
think otherwise, he would so far give his support to the
Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Cheers.)
Mr. PEEL said that he must have extremely misun-
derstood the Noble Marquis if he had not been classed with
the two Honourable Gentlemen upon whose conduct the
Noble Marquis had commented, not in a very moderate
manner,. accompanied with personalities and censure ap-
plied to him (Mr. Peel) because of his separating himself,
in an official sense, from the Right Hon. Gentleman,
whom yet he hoped he might call his Right Hon. Friend.
It was not with any view to office that he had taken his
course in the first instance, nor was it on account of his
regret for it that he had spoken on a former evening...—
So far from his acting as one of a factious and rancorous
Opposition, he had come down on the night of the Ship-
ping Question to support his Right Honourable Friend
the President of the Board of Trade.—(Cheers.)—He
certainly had stated that which lie felt to be a difficulty
in the formation of the new Ministry. When he saw
many Honourable Gentlemen who had been uniformly
opposed to Government, abandoning, as it seemed, their
principles, and taking seats behind his Right Hon. Friend,
and about to take office under him, he did say that he
must refuse his confidence till he knew of whom the Go-
vernment was to be composed, and what were the measures
which gave a cement to the coalition. He expected, natu-
rally enough'under the circumstances, that a triumph was
anticipated on the two great questions of Catholic Emanci-
pation and Reform. When he heard the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman declare that the question of parliamentary reform
would be opposed as before, and that he would not sup-
port the repeal of the Test Act, he then felt that those
questions, so far from being in any danger, had obtained,
by the accession of their supporters to a Government pre-
pared to oppose them, a most signal triumph. What ob-
jection, then, could he be supposed to entertain to the
formation of a Cabinet which secured the triumph of his
ewn principles ?—(Cheers.)—What rancour or personal
hostility could he, who had never served for the advantages
of office, feel for the accession of a party to office, upon
terms which established his own principles with more
safety than ever ? What objection could he have to a plan
of administration forrneo on the principle of excluding, by
those who before did net agree upon any but the Catholic
Question ? He promised his most zealous support and as-
sistance in as full a measure as he had given them to any
inquiries into the ancient institutions of the country, with
a view to their amelioration and reform.—(Cheers.)--He
had not adopted those plans which he had brought before
the House because he was in office, nor was he disposed to
abandon them because he ha l quitted it.—(Cheers.)_
He hoped he had explained satisfactorily the reasons of the
course which be had taken on a former evening. He ad-
mitted that the Right Hon. Gentleman had then explained
the terms of the coalition in a perfectly satisfactory man-
ner. He would only add an opinion which he still enter-
tained, that if there were to be any junction of the Mem-
bers of that party to the Administration, it was but fair
that it should at once take place, that the House and the
ccuntry might know what they had to expect. He was
never, more surprised than to find himself, as the conse-
quence of that speech, classed by the Noble Lord as one of
a factious Opposition. When he first came into Parlia-
ment, his Right Hon. Friend did indeed form a part of
what be conceived, with great deference, to be a factious
opposition. His Right Hon. Friend must know well,
from his experience at that time, what a factious opposition
really was, of what value was its support, and the incon-
venience which resulted from its success. He denied the
fact, and utterly disclaimed the intention of giving any
thing like a factious opposition to the present Administra-
tion.—(Cheees.)
The Marquis of TAVISTOCK said, that if any thing
which he had said was offensive to the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, he was sorry for having spoken it ; nothing could be
further from his intention. What he wished to have said
was, that he was sorry to find the Right Hon. Gentleman
descend from that high station which he occupied in the
House, to join an opposition, headed by the Baronet, and the
Hon. and late Under Secretary of the Home Department.
It appeared that he had been mistaken in the views of the

Right 1- on. Gentleman, and he was glad of the opportunity
of having himself set right upon the subject.
Mr. YATES PEEL was understood to say, that to ac-
cuse him of being one of a rancorous and factious opposition,
was an abominable falsehood.
Mr. MABERLY explained the reasons why he had post-
poned his financial notices for this session, because he placed
the fullest confidence in the Right Hon. Gentleman's (Mr.
Canning's) promise to appoint a, Committee of Finance
next Session, to enter fully into all the parts of the public
expenditure, To toppoee that the proposed Committee
, would not be a fair one, would be an insult to the Govern-
went. In full reliance upon this promise, he should not
oppose any of this year's estimates, not even the Peniten-
tiary item, to which he strongly objected, and which he
trusted would be reduced in the next year's inquiry.
Sir JOSEPH YORKE saidi it might be necessary for
Members like himself to state on the present occasion the
grounds upon which they stood with regard to the present
Government. It was now 37 years since he sat on his
present side of the House (the Opposition side), and now
that the lion and the lamb had laid down together, they
ought, in the language of the Parliamentary prayer, " to
give up all partial affection."—(A laugh..)—He meant to
have risen after his amiable and excellent friend Sir T.
Lethbridge.—(Cries of order.)—lrstleed, when he had
heard the Hon. Baronet, he thought for the'moment that
he was under a delusion as to his identity, and that the
Clerk of the Crown had just struck out the Hon. Baronet's
name, and substituted that of Sir Francis IVronghead.—
(A laugh.)—He had the highest opinion of the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Peel) who sad manfully
and consistently maintained his principles, but he (Sir J.
Yorke) should give something of his general support to the
present Government, even to the Catholic question, pro-
vided they took the measure into their hands, and pledged
their responsibility that they could not govern the country
without it.
Lord CLIFTON, on the present occasion, was anxious
to state his views. From the moment the Hon. Gentle-
men, with whom he was in the habit of acting, had de-
termined to give their support to the flight Hon. Gentle-
man opposite, he had entertained doubts as to the pro-
prietytof that course. They had, he knew, generally sup-.
ported the liberal portion of his Majesty's Government, iu
their recent measures. Still lie must say, that he did not
at this moment see such an administration constituted as to
call for a pledge of his support.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir J. SEBRIGHT avowed that his present determina-
tion was to support the Government appointed by his
Sovereign, and which, he believed, was the best calculated
to support the honour and dignity of the country. It was
not for him to apologise for the junction of the Whip—
they were much better able to speak in their own justifi-
cation than he could for them; but what objection could
there be to their direct junction with the liberal portion of
the Cabinet, in sustaining the principal of the liberal mea-
sures which they had already promoted ? To the Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Canning) lie believed the
country was much indebted for the recent change in its
policy; and he was glad to see his Government strength-
ened, by being purged of its greatest incumbrance—be
meant of its narrow-minded and prejudiced portion. He
was glad at the retirement of men who would have pro-
voked the rebellion of five millions of their fellow-subjects,
rather than concede the Catholic question. He looked to
the Right Hon. Gentleman for sustaining the honour and
character of his country by his transcendent talents, and
with the support of those who now surrounded him. He
had the greatest respect personally for the Right Han.
Gentleman (Mr. Peel), but he rejoiced that he was no
longer a Cabinet Minister, as he feared his bigotted opinions
on certain subjects would be most detrimental to the coun-
try. His opinions in this respect, though on different
points, were of the same genus as the Pope's,—quite as
uncompromising. Indeed, lie thought the Right Hon.
Gentleman would snake a bad Cabinet Minister for either a
Protestant or a Catholic Government. He approved of the
present Ministers, and hoped the country would support
them likewise.—(Hear.)

s
Mr. WODEHOUSE wished, when so much calumny
was afloat, to explain his own conduct. On the 6th of
May he had communicated with the Right Honourable
Gentleman opposite (Mr. Huskisson) upon the propriety
of ascertaining what was the feeling of Parliament and the
country respecting the new Government. He had written
to him on the 6th of May, and on the 10th he received
this answer :

" My dear Sir—When we parted yesterday, I thought
we were both agreed that a debate on the mate of the
nation would be the best thing that could happen, and the
sooner the better ; but that such a motion would originate
better with an avowed enemy than a firm friend."

Mr. LITTLETON rose to order, and thought that a
written communication of this nature ought not to he
publicly read ; he had also reason to think that the Ttigjat
Hoc., Gentleman did not think it would hare been so used.

• —( Hear.)
• Mr. HUSKISSON said, that certainly he did not ex-
pect his Hon. Friend would have read his letter, which, he
believed, was marked " private ;" not that he cared by
whom it was seen.
Mr. WODEHOUSE said that Hon. Members had asked
him what course he meant to take, and he was anxious to
protect himself from any misunderstanding, as there was
nu end to the calumnies circulated against him.
Mr. PORTMAN intreated that his Hon. Friend would
not further allude to private communications.—(Hear.)
Mr. WODEHOUSE said he was not there to defend
his private honour, for no man Lad attacked it.—(Hear,
hear.)—But he was most anxious to pay his tribute of
applause to the Right Hon. Gentlemen at the head of the
Government, and he hoped they would have their court,
try's support.--(Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUME said, that the Right HOD. Gentlemen op-
posite must see that the country expected of him a change
of principle in financial matters. He concurred perfectly
in the opinions which the Hon. Baronet, the Member for
Hertford, had expressed, and trusted that any observa_
. tions which might fall from him on that occasion would
not lead any Hon. Member to suppose that Le differed from
those opinions. This, however, he felt it his duty to say,
that the country expected relief. They were nosy in the
13th year of peace. At the conclusion of the war, the
nation had been led to expect relief year after y ear ; but let
the House reflect how those 13 years had passed away.
There had been a military establishment, only suitable to a
state of actual warfare, constantly kept up, and they were
now in a state of utter bankruptcy. In 1821, the expen-
diture was brought within the income of the Government,
and he hoped that the same would be done this veal. In
the last year the House had agreed to add tiA- millions
to the unfunded debt, under a promise that a sum
should be taken from the funded debt. The vote he should
never have agreed to, had it not been from the unparalleled
distresses of the country, and the promises of relief which
were then held out. The House might not generally
know, and it might therefore be as well to state the fact,
that no relief whatever had been given to the country.
On the contrary, the expenditure had exceeded the revenue
millions, and the debt of the country had consequently
increased. When the business relative to Portugal was
brought forward, he had implored the Right Hon. Gentle-
man opposite to pause before he took a stair which, throw-
ing the political consequences of it altogether on one side,
must entail great expence upon the country. And how I
did matters now stand ? Why, there was a deficiency
of 4i millions last year, and there would be a similar
deficiency this ; and yet they were still keeping up the
farce of a sinking fund. He hoped that the Right Hon.
Gentleman would not be induced to defer la intended
Committee of Finance until next year, but set about it im-
mediately. With respect to going into the Committee of
Supply now, he thought that he was entitled to ask of the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, not to proceed to it until
he had first redeemed the pledge given by the late Chancellor
of the Exchequer, not to ask for any more supplies until he
had brought forward his financial statement for the year.
He thought that the House, or at least that part of the
House in which he sat, would support him in this propo-
sition. If he thought that the line of conduct he was now
pursuing would throw any impediments in the way of the
Right Hon. Gentleman, he would abandon it. He did not,
however, think that it would ; and he really thought, that
after what he had said, and he pledged himself that it was
correct, he was justified in asking how far his Majesty's
Ministers could make up the deficiency in the year's reve-
nue? And whether the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
meant to take any immediate means of lessening the ex-
penditure of Government? He hoped that he should hear
some explanation upon these points, and that in the ab-
sence
of such explanation he should be supported by those
gentlemen who had hitherto acted with him.
Mr. HERRIES was sure the House would see that at
that time it was not necessary for him to enter into the
discussion of this subject, or to follow the Hon. Member
for Montrose through all the topics on which he had
' touched. His Right Hon. Friend had already expressed
his intention of declaring the state of the finances of Go-
vernment before the holidays, and it would therefore to
say the least of it, he premature in any one to attempt it
before then. There was one part of the speech of the
Hon. Member for Montrose on which he felt it necessary
to make an observation. • The Hon. Member had claimed
the fulfilment of a promise made by his Noble Friend
( Viscount Goderich) who had now left that House, and
which he stated to be, that no other estimates should he
voted until he had made his financial statement. There
could he no doubt that those words, or that words to that i
effect, had been used by his Noble Friend ; but he would

put it to the Hon. Member for Montrose, and to the
House, whether they would be disposed to think, that
after the circumstances which had occurred since that pro-
mise was made, it was imperative on his Right Hon.
Friend to adopt the plan and to redeem the pledge given
by the late Chancellor of the Exchequer,—(Cheers.) If
the question related to the major part of the supplies, the
case would wear a different aspect : but the greater part of
them had already been voted : the army and navy estimates
had already passed, and the remainder were, comparatively
speaking, of very small amount.—(Cheers.) With respect
to the appointment of a finance committee, it should he re-
collected that, however salutary that measure might be, it
was by the vigilance and attention of Government, and
by that alone, that any great reduction could be made.
—(Cheers.)
Mr. CANNING said, that in reply to what had fallen
from th am. Member for Montrose, he had to state, that
on that day fortnight he should bring forward his state-
ment for the year.—(Cheers, and cries of hear.)—lle
hoped that the Hon. Member would desist from opposing
the motion for the House going into a Committee, because
he must see that under the circumstances in which he (Mr.
Canning) was placed, it was beyond the power of human
diligence and industry to enter into prospective as well as
retrcspective estimates, and to lay before the House a state-
ment which could be at all satisfactory to them, before the
period which he had fixed.---(Cheers.)—These est:;nates
bore no immediate reference to the general statement ; and
although the opening of the general statement early in the
year, as had been the custom of his Noble Friend (Viscount
Goderich), was a very proper plan, and one that he should
always endeavour to adopt, yet it must be recollected that
that custom was of a very late origin, and tbet what he
should call the constant and uniform coerse of that House
was not to bring forward the general statement until all
the supplies had• been disposed of. He was quite sure that
Gentlemen conversant with the practice of that House
would concur With him in saying that that had been the
usual mode of proceeding; and be therefore begged the
Hon. Member for Montrose to recollect that he (Mr. Can-
ning) did not ask him to violate any Parliamentary form
in withdrawing his opposition for the present.
Colonel DAVIES thought the reasons satisfactory.
Lord HOWICK said that the late Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer had promised the House should not he called to
vote any inure supplies until the general statement had been
brought forward, and it was upon that pledge that he rested
his opinion. He was as anxious as any Hon. Gentleman
could be not to throw obstacles in the way of Government,
but he thought that there ought to be no expenditure until
the means by which that expenditure was to be met had
been declared ; and upon that ground the Hon. Member
for Montrose should have his vote, if be persevered in his
opposition.
Lord MILTON said, that when he gage it as his opinion
that the Committee should be gone into, because opposing
it might be construed into an abandonment of Government,
the Hon. Member for Montrose must not suppose that he
meant to desert him in his endeavours to bring about an
economical reformation. Next to the state of Ireland, he
thought the state of the finances of this country the most
alarming object that presented itself to the consideration of
that House. He could not see without considerable anxiety
and alarm so small a surplus as 1,000,0001. over the ex-
penditure of the country.
Mr. HUME said that there was a deficiency instead of a
surplus.
Lord MILTON said, that whether called by the name of
a sinking fetid, or by any other title, he (lid net care. The
result was the same; and as he understood the accounts,
there was a surplus of 1,000,000/.
Mr. Alderman WOOD was sure the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman opposite would feel gratified when he told him that

a large number of his constituents were satisfied with his
government, especially when compared with that part
which had left him. For his own part, he had not shown
by a change of seat that the Right Hon. Gentleman might
expect him to favour him with his vote.—(A laugh. )—But
the fact was, that he did not think he should ever change
the seat which, to his taste, was so comfortable.—(A laugh.)
—Though he continued in his place, he would give the
Right Hon. Gentleman his support as far as he could—
(Cheers),—in spite of the very degrading language,—lan-
guage not suitable to any place, which had been used to-
wards him (Mr. Canning) elsewhere.—(Cheers.)—He
had often heard severe reflections passed upon the debates
of the Common Council of London.--(A laugh.)—They
had been called a set of vulgar men, who used nothing but
vulgar language.—(Laughter.)—But he must say, that he
never heard any thing elsewhere which so nearly approach-
ed the language of that place as the language to which he
referred.—(Cheers and laughter.)—He confessed that he
thought the Right Hon. Gent. would have all the benefit
of that language. He saw a great many of his friends on
that (the Oppositit' 3u) side ,of the House that night, whom
he had certainly seen on the other side since the late change,
but he could easily account for it. The fact was, that the
benches on the other side being so full, and gentlemen
being compelled to sit somewhere, they had been driven
back to their former places.—(Laughter.)--At least he
hoped that want of room on the other side of the House
was the only reason for their being on his that evening,
and that they would continue to support the Right Hon.
Gentleman, because, in another place which he must not
mention, language had been used which certainly could not
be tolerated.—(Cheers and laughter.)—This was of itself
a reason why he ought to be supported.—(Cheers.)—He
hoped that his Honourable Friend, the Member for Mon-
trose, with whom he had so often voted, and with whom
he should continue to vote, would not, though he confessed
that there was no man more competent, embarrass the
Right Honourable Gentleman, and drive him into a corner
of pounds, shillings, and pence.—(Cheers and laughter. )
He had only one complaint to make against the Right Hon.
Gent., and that was for an expression into which he was
sure he had been goaded, but into which he hoped he would
.never suffer himself to be goaded again. He hoped that what-
ever he might say as to Parliamentary Reform, which every
body knew that he had always opposed, he would not again
get up again in his place and say, as he did the other night, and
as he (Mr. Alderman Wood) thought a little unnecessarily,
that he would oppose the repeal of the Test Act to the last
hour of his life.—(Cries of" No, no.") It was something
to that effect, and he hoped that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man would never suffer himself to be goaded, by high or
low, intl -,uch an expression. Frequent allusions had been
made in that House to the march of intellect.—(A laugh.)
—Now, although the Right Hon. Gentleman might have

proceeded so far in this march, even to the very pinnacle,
beyond which there could he no marching—(Laughter.)—
_ _

He thought the time would yet come when the Right Hon.
Gentleman would think that the difficulties under which so
many thousand Dissenters laboured ought to be removed.
—(Cheers.)—He hoped and believed that the time would
come when the march of intellect would reach the Right
Hon. Gentleman on this point.—(Laughter.)-ILving
thus stated the grounds on which he should oppose the
Right Hon. Gentleman, he should now conclude by ob-
serving, that on all occasions where the measures of Go-
vernment were directed to the public good, the Right Hon.
Gentleman might be sure of his support.
Sir ROBERT WILSON rose to make one observation
with respect to what had fallen from the worthy Alder-
man, who had evidently quite mistaken the purport of
what had been said by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Canning) on a late occasion with respect to the Corpora-
tion and Test Acts. To those who knew him (Sir Robert
Wilson) he need hardly say, that he was a friend to civil
and religious liberty in the largest and most comprehensive
sense that the term could admit of. He therefore blamed
the Dissenters for not having made common cause with
their Roman Catholic fellow •subjects in petitioning the
Legislature for a repeal of those Acts ; and for that reason
he, for one, should join the Right Hon. Gentleman in op-
posing their repeal.—(Hear, from Mr. Alderman Wood.)
—The worthy Alderman might cry hear ! but he should
tell him why he had come to that determination. It was
for this reason, because there were 18 millions composing
the population of the country, 8 millions of whom were
excluded from those rights which the other 10 millions
enjoyed. Now, if according to the worthy Alderman's
view, the Test Act ought to be repealed with reference to
the Dissenters, that class of persons would unite in keep-
ing the Roman Catholics from participating in the rights
which were conceded to themselves.

Mr. S. WORTLEY put it to the Hon. Gentlemen who
were engaged in these irrelevant discussions to say, whether
it would not be snore beneficial to the public service that
the House should at once proceed to business.—(Hear.)
The question that the SPEAKER do now leave the Chair
was then put and carried, and the House having resolved
itself into