The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-21 00:00:00

attack upon the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State.
But he had made no attack upon the Government—he had
said nothing that was disrespectful of the Government—(oh,
oh)—but he felt himself compelled to admit, for the fact was
andeniable, that the letters of the Hon. Member for Finsbury
had been opened by her Majesty's Government, and the reason
for so doing had not been inquired into.—( Hear, hear.) This
was not merely the battle of the Hon. Member for Finsbury,
but the battle of every Member of that House, and every sub-
ject of her Majesty was as deeply interested in it as Members
of the House were—( Hear, hear)—and the Government may
rely upon it, that whatever the decision of the House might be
to-night, the public would look with a jealous eye upon their
proceedings, and oppose every attempt to violate the public
rights.—( Hear, hear. )
Lord SANDON rose amidst loud cries of " Divide, divide."
He said he had merely risen for the purpose of reminding the
House that the Committee had not made their report upon the
question as it affected the Hon. Member for Finsbury, but its
obNii,n.e to the order of the House, and to the decision of
that tribunal they left it without any reference to him
(Mr. Duncombe). The House should bear in mind
that when first the Honourable Member for Finsbury
introduced this subject to the House he made some allusion to
his own letters, and yet he declined to offer any evidence to
the Committee upon that part of the subject.—(Hear, hear.)
The Committee, however, in their report, had endeavoured to
discover what number of warrants had been issued for the last
twenty-two years by the different Pi ime Ministers during that
period, and the result of their investigation was already before
the House in the paragraph they had already heard read, and
which was to this effect.—(Here the Noble Lord read the
paragraph, and concluded by expressing a hope that the House
would not consent to re-investigate this question by coming to
another vote upon it. )
Mr. ROEBUCK would be sorry that the House should
come to a vote upon this question until he had expressed his
sentiments upon it, and therefore he now stood up to do so. In
speaking upon this question he begged to be understood as se-
parating from it any consideration of a personal nature, and
approaching it only upon public grounds. When first this question
was submitted to the House by the Hon. Member for Finsbury,
the Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham) said, in answer to it, that he
stood upon the responsibility of his station, and would not
answer the question. The Right Hon. Baronet, the First
Lord of the Treasury, was the next Member of her Majesty's
Government to give an opinion upon the question (and that
Hon. Baronet was an exceedingly correct barometer of the
temperature of public opinion)—(Laughter)—and the Hon.
Baronet said he was obliged to take up a position different from
that of his colleague, and that he would meet the public feeling,
and therefore appointed a Select Committee in order t• allay
the public excitement. Why had that been done ? Because
the suspicion of the public had been excited against the Go-
vernment, inasmuch as it was generally believed that the pre-
sent Government had exercised this power tiir the first time.
The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) then said, " Give us a
Committee, and the whole truth shall be elicited."—( Hear.)
Well, the Committe had been appointed, and made their in-
quiry ; and what was the result of their proceeding ?—( Hear. )
He (Mr. R.) did not impugn the honour of that Committee ; but
this he would say, and he would pledge everything he held dear
to support it, that the report had not given satisfaction to the
publie.—( Hear. ) The Committee had two questions before it
—one was as to the state of the law, and the other as to the
power of the Government. One of these affected the foreign
policy of the country, and the other the private question in re-
spect to the Hon. Member for Finsbury himself.—( Hear. )
What did the Committee do? They gave no opinion respect-
ing the lion. Member for Finsbury, but altogether passed
over his case.— ( Hear, hear.) Did the Right Lion. Baronet
think thet the public were satisfied with the report on that part
of the case upon which they did express an opinion ?—( Hear,
bear.) If so, why did he make that extraordinary explanation
on Tuesday night, that the Chief Secretary for Foreign Affairs
received a communication from the Austrian Ambassador, and
thereupon he applied to the Home Secretary to send an order
to the Post-office, and accordingly the warrant was issued
which led to certain information being communicated to the
Austrian Ambassador? But the Right Hon. Gentleman made
this extraordinary additional explanation, that the Foreign
Secretary, Lord Aberdeen, exercising that great discretion
entrusted to him, made the communication to Austria—a
private communication and, having destroyed it, he
was not now able to trust his memory so as to
inform the House, to which he was responsible, what the nature
of the communication %N —( Mar, hear.) That was an as-
tounding explanation.—( Hear, hear.) It was supplemental
to the report of the Committee which had been appointed to in-
vest:gate this great question of foreign policy, affecting the
most important interests of this country.—( Hear.) The Noble
Lord (Lord Sandon) whose duty, as a member of that Com-
mittee, it had been to carry out the inquiry, and to make the
report so as to appease the anxiety and to satisfy the just cu-
riosity of the nation, thought proper just now to characterize
the desire of Members of that house to obtain a full inquiry for
the satisfaction of the house, and of their constituents, a
"prurient curiosity."—(Hear.) He (Mr. R.) asked what right
had the Noble Lord to use that phrase ?—( Cheers, and cries of
"Oh ! oh !) The phrase was unjustifiable—( Hear)—and he
( Mr. Roebuck) —for one was impelled with indignation to repel
the imputation of " prurient curiosity."—(Cheers.) The Hon.
Member for Finsbury had made a direct and distinct appeal
to the Committee. Now, he (Mr. Roebuck) regretted the
tone and temper in which that Hon. Member made his state-
ment, and he thought that great injustice had been done to the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir James Graham), for he believed
that the exercise of this odious power was well intended to
maintain the peace of Europe.—( Hear, hear.) But that was
far from sufficient. They wanted to know how that discre-
tionary power had been employed, that the House might know
whether it was necessary to legislate upon the subject.—( Hear,
hear.) He regretted the language used by the Hon. Member
foe Finsbury and Liskeard, for he thought it better not to
bring personal hostility into the discussion of so grave a ques-
tion. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir James Graham) was
not to blame for the exercise of this power, but the Ministry—
and if the power was improper, the Ministry was not to blame
for its existence.—( Ministerial cheers.) He ( Mr. Roebuck)
might say, that he had in 1837 and 1838, the same cause of
complaint as the Hon. Member for Finsbury had now made.—
(" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) The Hon. Member
for Finsbury said his letters were opened. The
Noble Lord said lie had read all the warrants, but
he did not say whether they applied to the Hon.
Member for Finsbury. That Gentleman did not know whe-
ther his letters were opened under the authority of a warrant,
or without it. He would assume that there was a warrant, and
that the Right Hon. Secretary issued it upon his own respon-
sibility. NN, hat was that responsibility? Was it to this
House ?—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hen. Gentleman said
that it was on his ow n responsibility. What ? Was the re-
sponsibility to himself? which was no responsibility.—
( Cheers. )—The Right lion. Baronet was responsible to some-
body, and that responsibility was due to that House. The
Bight Hon. Baronet said he was excluded from giving the
House the information which wag demanded of him. Now,
from that oath he had been relieved by her Majesty, to enable
him to give evidence on the Secret Committee. But still he
a refused to give the information, and the Right Hon. Baronet
r at the dead of the Government excused his lion. Colleague,
on the plea that it would he disclosing the secrets of his
office. This was employing the name and attributes of
the Sovereign in a way altogether improper, but there was no
no doubt whatever but that the Right Hon. Baronet was per-
sonally responsible. The Right lion. Baronet at the head of
the Treasury was exercising the highest functions of his office
when he was refusing the information the House required.
Suppose, however, they had exercised a pewee to which they
had no right. One of the greatest causes of alarm out of doors
was what had been stated in another place by the very highest
legal authority. That this power was not conferred in the
way in which it was supposed to be by Right Hon. Gentlemen
opposite. " The power," said the Right Hon. Baronet, " has
been conferred upon me of opening any letters which I may
think fit, upon my own responsibility, and that power is re-
cognised by the Act of Anne, and again by the Act of Victoria."
Well, the Right lion. Baronet said he had full power to open
whatever letters he thought fit, upon his own responsibility.
Now he denied this in toto. The statement bore il-
legality upon the face of it; and when his Honourable
and Learned Friend opposite, the Solicitor-General, was
called upon for his opinion upon it, he had no doabt he
would agree with him in what he nosy stated. But there had
not only been exercised an illegal power, but the nse of a power
which was not granted by law. In the 40th section of the Act
of Anne, there were these words:—" That no letters should
be opened after the same shall have been delivered into the
General Post-office, before the delivery thereof, without the
express earrent in writing of one of her Majesty's Principal
Secretaries of State shall have been obtained.' Now the mean-
ing of this was, that the warrant of the Secretary of State
should be a sufficient authority to enable one of the servants of
the Post-office to open letters without incurring blame or pu-
nishment. The authority was only implied to Olsen letters, and
if the Right lion. Gentleman would just give his warrant to any
one man at the Post-office, -to open any one letter of
the Ilinourable Member for Finsbury, and would afterwards
lay the warrant upon the table in that House, they would take
the case to the Court of Queen's Bench, and try the legality
of the warrant. If the Right lion. Baronet would only do
that, he had no doubt that the Hon. :Member would bring an
action in twenty-four hours after the warrant was on the table.
The Government were bound not only by law, but by prudence,
to answer the question that had been put to them. Now, he
wanted the House for a moment to consider the consequences
of the declaration made the other evening by the Right Hun.
Baronet at. the head of the Government. lie entered into a
most elaborate description of the circumstances in which the
country was placed in 1842. Now, he did not know
what seas the real intention of the Right Honourable
Baronet, but the feeling existed in his mind that he
wanted to show that England was in a dangerous
state at the time. That there had been exercised every power
which the Coestifution gave them to protect and secure the
peace of the country. The House would remember that the
Right Eon. Baronet had before told them that amongst their
powers, was that of opening letters; and, further, the asser-
tion prevhmsly made by the Hon. Member for Finsbury, that
his letters had been opened. The natural inference was, that
the Government had thought it a precautionary step to procure
order and peace to ofen the letters of the Hon. Member for
Finsbury.—( Hear, hear.) Now, if that were so, he asked,
would it not be prudent if the Right lion. Baronet would
follow the dictates of honour and respect the feelings of the
people, by coming forward, and admitting the act, declare that
they had f..und nothing to criminate the lion. Member fur
Finsbury? If they had done this, they might easily have
said that they had pursued the same steps as their own im-
mediate predecessors; and this they had stone upon the deep
feeling of responsibility which attached to their office.—
(Hear, hear.) Suppose thst had been the answer of the Right
Hon. Baronet, why, they would have had the public with
them. They would have made this a useful instead of a dan-
gerous power, and the people would have been satisfied. The
Right lion. Gentleman had already made two concessions. He
believed that he would have to make a third, and that they
would at last, hear from him the statement which it would
have been wise to have made in the first instance.— (Cheers.)
He would be obliged " We thought this necessary at
to say,
the time ; we did it under the notion that it was essential to
the peace of the community, if you think that the power
has not been rightly exercised, say so; and, on the other hand
—if you think that it ought to be taken away, state your
would opinion." That w have been a frank way of dealing with
this question. To ernefer to his own case, he had no doubt that
the if he had inquired of le Noble Lord the Member for the City
of London whether or not he had opened his letters to Mr.
have Papineau, he would replied distinctly to the question ;
and had there been in their
ei anything wrong he would not be
where he was at that moment.
hether his letters had been
concerned, hlittle w
e cared very As far as he himself fees
opened or not. But that was not the feeling of the Hon. Gen-
tleman the Member for Finsbury. It was not the feeling of
Hear, hear.) They said,
the people of this great country.—(
and said truly, that, although the exercise ofl.eaeddiseretion of
taoany evil,
the Foreign Secretary might not necessarily
yet there rui,eht come a time when there should be
of State for Foreign Affairs who might not be discreet,Secretary
who might give information to foreign nations which woud' ands
in the most disastrous consequences.—( Hear.) If he (Mr.leu.e)
knew anything of the feelings of his countrymen, there was-
nothing which would st: ike them with a feeling of greater
humiliation and shame than that the powers of their Govern-
ment should he employed for the base purposes of despotism in
any part of the world. —( Hear, hear.) The Right lion.
Baronet might, rest assured, that if he wished the power vested
in him to be continued at all, he must make his declaration
quickly; but if he knew anything of the feelings of his coun-
trymen, the v, over would not last much longer, but would be
dude *way with even after the declaration of the Right Hon.
Gentleman that he had done what had been laid at his door.
Mr. COLLETT moved the adjournment of the debate.
Mr. C. BULLER explained.