The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-08 00:00:00

CHURCH EXTENSION.

Mr. CHILDERS wished to know from the Right
Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government whether it
was the intention of the Government to grant a Queen's
letter this year ? He was desirous of knowing this,
because the Church Building Society stated that they
would not make any grant to churches which had been
in the gift of trustees—that resolution being in contra-
vention of an Act of Parliament, and also he believed in
opposition to the wishes of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Sir R. PEEL said that the usual practice kad been to
issue a Queen's letter in favour of a particular society
triennially. That letter was not usually issued till the
month of August, and he did nut suppose the usual
course would be departed from. The subject, he be-
lieved, was now under the consideration of the Eccle-
siastical Commissioners.
FIRE INSURANCES.
Col. SIBTHORP gave notice of his intention to
move certain returns connected with fire insuranees on
Monday next.
COLLEGE OF SURGEONS.
Col. THOMAS WOOD wished to know, from the
Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he
intended to propose any remedy for the grievances under
which the College of Surgeons laboured ?
Sir JAMES GRAHAM was at a loss to understand
to what grievances the Honourable and Gallant
Member alluded. He was himself not prepared to ad-
vise any alteration.
ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER, it was ordered that the House, at its rising,
should adjourn to Monday.
PROPERTY-TAX.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER, the report on the Property-tax Bill was
postponed to Monday.
WAYS AND MEANS.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX-
CHEQUER that the House should resolve itself into a
Committee of Ways and Means,
Mr. WILLIAMS trusted the House would give him
an opportunity of stating the reasons for kis being ab-
sent last night when the motion, of which he had given
notice, was called on. He hoped he should be able to allay
the feelings of the Noble Lord at the head of the Woods
and Forests in doing so. He came down to the House
last night to make the motion ; and thinking that the
questions that were ,before the House would occupy a
greater length of time than they did, he was too late to
bring on his motion. He deeply regretted that cir-
cumstance from what had taken place. Ho could
assure the Noble Lord, that in making that motion
be could not for one instant imagine that in the
slightest degree it could have been conceived that he had
any intention of applying anything personal to the
Noble Lord or his noble father ; and if the Noble Lord
would compare his (Mr. Williams's) motion with the
notice he had given, he would find that there was not
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The statement to which he
edadss,utlahened'tlo'owtwehnehtriyc:ihlfierrhsie:
contained signed b y thethe Noblemano
manors,
Lord.bu :es
ditaments belonging to the Crown, which had been sold
by private contract by the Commissioners of her Ma-
jesty's Woods and Forests. It was respecting these
that he desired to have some explanation. In the state-
ment to which he referred it appeared that certain
lands, containing 7,438 acres and 36 roods, had
been sold to his Grace the Duke of Newcastle.
for 1,0491. 15s. 9d. Now, the notice which he (Mr.
Williams) had given was for copies of all surveys and
valuations of 7,438 acres and 36 roods of land, belonging
to the Crown, adjoining the Duke of Newcastle's
Hafod estate in Cardiganshire, which had been
sold by private contract for 1,0491. 15s. 9d.
If the Noble Lord or any other man—he did not care
who—could point out the slightest shadow of a shade of
meaning is these words, he would submit that the ob-
servations of the Noble Lord last night were justifiable.
—(Cries of " Order, order.") He begged pardon for
alluding to what had occurred on a previous night during
his absence. He would wish to go into those statements
of the Noble Lord ; but, as it was contrary to the rules
of the House, he would not further allude to it.
He made the motion on public grounds, and submitted
to the House that when they saw such a transaction,
property be-
lseaolef iotffor 2s. 10d. an
lwo without
taon yt h se o rt
Crown, o
thela n a
ft Le lei;
nap
acre—they had a right to demand an explanation. He
wanted to know what the situation of this property
was, and accordingly moved for the returns. He now
regretted having entrusted the motion to another Hon.
Member, which he thought a bad practice, and attended
with great inconvenience.—(Laughter, and cries of
Hear.) In 1839 ho made a similar motion, and on the
same grounds—he moved for conveyances and all other
documents connected with the sale of this manor.
What was the consequence of that ? A party had pur-
chased that property of the Crown, at a low rate, in con-
sequence of various encroachments which had been
made upon the property, . through the neglect and
supineness of the Commissioners of Woods and Forests.
Poor persons had encroached upon the property, had
expended their labour upon it, and had brought it into
cultivation. This had been done because the property had
not been properly looked after by the Crown. The pur-
chaser of the property had endeavoured to force
those persons to return their holdings to him. A gen-
tleman of great public spirit took the matter up,
on behalf of these poor persons. The cause was tried
three times, and was at last moved into the Court of
Queen's Bench—the purchaser still endeavouring to
force those poor persons to return the property to him. A
representation having been made to him (Mr.W.Williams)
on the subject, he represented it to Lord Duncannon.
With that kindness of heart which was so charac-
teristic of the Noble Lord, ho immediately in-
stituted a most careful investigation into
the whole
case, compelled the purchaser to withdraw his
claim, and the whole affair was amicably adjusted.
He thought that after such aln occurrence the Noble
Lord could not be surprised at his asking for an expla-
nation of the nature of the transaction attending the sale
of the Hafod Estate. It appeared that the property bad
been sold at an excessively low rate. He had made
no charge against the Noble Lord, either that he
had sold, or that his father had purchased the property
improperly. All that he wanted was, an explanation of
the facts attending the sale, and if he had been in the
House last night—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—he would
have moved, as an addition to the motion, that a sche-
' dule should be laid before the House of the encroach-
ments.i
It was necessary to have such a schedule, n
order to show how the encroachments had been purchased.
He was sorry that he had no opportunity of replying to
the Noble Lord, or he should hive shown that he had no
ground either in justice or anything else fur the obser-
vations he had made. He could assure the Noble. Lord,
if the purchase had been made by any one else, it' it had
been made by two of the most intimate friends he
had, he should have moved for the return precisely the
esaxmceept to
ashesatisfyhad
d
the means that had been taken to ascertain the value of
the estate. The sales of Crown
nohwimee life
more had
property
motives whatever
particularly
by
private asto
contract wero a fair subject of inquiry ; he thought all
rer t
sales of Crown property ought to be publicoo and
an not pre-
ivna te
return The
foCr Crown e
receivedlands,
aansdu mt
the
e
cer-
tainly produced a large sum ; but not more than 145,0001.
of it went to the public Treasury ? He contended
the department over which the Noble Lord presided re-
C3rBosw, 0a )
-
/.
estates n a ull
re-
quired looking after as much as any other department
roifvted hefrrnc
Gooverrnomwnenlat.ndAs
at,apereapseenntt,
fmoroasltloafotrhtes
orefvpennrupeoadcea-.
With regard to the charge brought against him by the
Noble Lord, he had only to say that he would never
that the Ministerialhe wasot
inbenches)—and
House
from the performance of a public duty, however
disagreeable that might be—(Cries of " Oh, oh," from
bring forward
the motion of which he had given notice.
The Earl of LINCOLN said that the Lion. Member
iousalaet he
nigrhepte to repeated his regret
for CoTeutry had deemed it necessary to enter into a