The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-19 00:00:00

TITZ SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, APRIL 19, 18,12.

Mr.- E. RICE said after- the .vote which the House had come
to, it would be rather his duty to endeavour to remedy what
he might consider the defects in the details of the Right Hon.
Baronet's plan, than to throw any further obstructions in the
way of the measure. He preferred the measures of the late
Government to the Income-tax ; but, after the rejection of
those measures, he felt they had no alternative bet to accept
the proposition of the Right. Hon. Baronet, with a view to
mortify its details. If he should not be enabled in Committee
to obtain some modification of what he considered the great
injustice of taxing professional incomes at the same rate as
permanent incomes—if he should not succeed in that, he
should feel it his duty to vote against the third reading of
the Bill. One reason why he would nut oppose the fit st
reading of the Bill was; that he thought nothing would con-
tribute more to the maintenance of peace than showing that we
had ample resources to go to war. For these reasons he would
not oppose the introduction of the Bill.
Mr. FOX MaULE thought his Hon. Friend, who hadlast
spoke, must have misundersood what had fallen from the Right
Hon. Baronet, on the subject of the modifications of his
plan, without the introduction of which les lion. Friend bad
stated he should feel it to be his duty to vote against
the third reading of the Bill. The light Honourable
Baronet. had distinctly stated that he would consent
to the introduction of no such modification as that which had
been propocci by Hon. Friend, and he would therefore urge
his lien. Friend net to wait for the third reading of the Bill,
but to vote against it at once. He was anxiovs, before giving
his vote on the present occasion to state to the House his rea •
sons for so doing, because he had been much misrepresented on
the subject of the Income-tax. It had been stated to that
House, that in voting with the Ministers for the postponement
of the decision upon the Right lion. Baronet's resolutions until
after Easter, he had followed a course founded solely and simply
on facti us opposition. He would appeal to the Right Hon.
Gentleman whether he had not stated distinctly, when the reso-
lutions were brought before the House, lie considered sufficient
time had not been given to the people of this country to consi-
der their nature and operation. Ile stated distinctly, that in
voting with the minority his object was to gain time for the
people of Scotland to consider those resolutions, and when taxed
by the Hon. Member for Lincolnshire with voting for delay, he
did so agreeably with the opinions and wishes of his constitu-
ents.—(llear, hear.) Now the Right Hen. Baronet, the Secre-
tary for the Home Department, had stated that he (Mr. Fox
Maule) having sounded his constituents as to the propriety of
holding a meeting to discuss these resolutions, he had been in-
formed that if a meeting were held those resolutions would re-
ceive its approval. It, appeared that the only source from which
the Right Honourable Baronet had derived his information was
an anonymous letter, so greatly had he been at a loss for matter
for his speech. He (Mr. F. Maule) begged now to state dis-
tinctly that all he had lenrned from his constituents was, that
his constituents did not disapprove of his voting with the
minority before Easter; and the Right Hon. Baronet having
asked him what they thought of the proposed measure, he
begged to state explicitly that those merchants and shopkeepers,
whose incomes would be affecied, entirely disapproved of it.—
( Hear, hear.) They complained of the tax both on account
of its injustice and its inquisitorial character. Not one of those
wills whom he had conversed had one word to say in favour
of the Income-tax. He was quite ready to admit to the Right
Hon. Baronet, that in the town of Perth there were persons
whom the Right Honourable Baronet had captivated by
his measures, and upon whose approbation he was trusting
to a very considerable extent. But he (Mr. F. Massie)
would tell him that the day may come when he
would find that the class in whom he had trusted for support of
those measures, may have their eyes opened. He would tell the
Baronetßight Hon. that the day had been when the agricul-
tural interest had confided in him for the entire protection of
their interests, and who were so confident in the protection of
the Right Hon. Baronet at this moment. He would not use the
harsh word which had been objected to in the course of the de-
bate, but he would say that the Right lion. Baronet had dis-
appointed the expectations of the agriculturists, and he would
say that the country had, from one end to the other, expressed
disappointment at the manner in which they had been treated,
and the measures which had been brought forward. He would
warn the Right Hon. Baronet that,. although he may receive
much inconvenience froth the result of that discovery
on the pita the agriculturists, it was nothing to the inconve-
nience which he and the country would receive when the
great mass of the people discovered the effect of the opposition
to the Income-tax, coupled with the assertion that they would
not be affected by it—when they should discover that such was
the case, the re-action which would ensue would be dangerous,
not simply to the Right lien. Baronet's Government, for that,
perhaps, would not concern him (Mr. F. Mamie) so much.—
Laughter. ) But he would tell him, it wouldbe dangerous to the
peace of the cauntry. It was impossible to inflict an Income-
tax without in a very great degree affecting the working
classes. It had already been acknowledged by die Hon. Mem-
ber for Knaresborough, that many manufacturers were lessen-
ing their amount of labour, in anticipation of the Income-tax.
He would ask why they invited that great body of the people to
consider the Income-tax, they who opposed useful measures,
such as the Corn-law and the Sugar Duties ?—( Hear, hear. )
Why that they may get a blow struck at the middle classes,
who, they imagine, stand between them and obtaining univer-
sal suffrage. When they have effected that which the Govern-
ment, by the imposition of the Income-tax, was assisting them
to do, they would find a class combined, the union of which
would entirely depend on the measure passing. He thanked
his Noble Friend for giving him the opportunity of giving his
vote against this tax. His Noble Friend had.been accused of
taking an unusual course, but the occasion also was unusual.
They were saddling the country with a tax, of which some
opinions had been read-of the recorded debates of that House,
and to which he should again take the liberty of referring. In
the words of the Right Hon. Gentleman, it is a tax which, " if
properly collected, would expose every man's business to a ri-
gorous inquisition; it is a tax which would encourage immo-
rality, fraud, and perjury.—( Hear, hear, hear.) It
would discourage industry, which, in a country like this,
no tax ought to do." Such were the words of the Right Flout.
Baronet, and such was his simple opinion of the tax, which
lie should oppose whenever he had the opportunity of so doing.
The Right Hon. Baronet had said that his plan was supported
by the commercial community—he had beard, indeed, that it
had met with the support of the Chamber of Commerce
of Glasgow, and lie had heard it with sonic surprise,
because the same body had placed on their records a resolu-
tion preferring the fixed duty on corn, of his Noble Friend, to
the sliding scale. But this Chamber of Commerce, it ap-
peared, was solely governed by six Directors, and in point el
fact it was the approval of these six only which the Hon Ba-
ronet had received. 'these Directors, too, would be found
to be men interested in the continuance of the West India mo-
nopely, and the maintenance of the sugar ditties, to the
extent at which they at. present existed. On the other side,
the Chamber of Edinburgh had declared against it. He
should cheet fully give his vote against the measure.
Mr. MONCKTON MILNES imagined that the Right
Hon. Gentleman who hail just sat down was the only Member
of the House who was not convinced by the Right Honourable
Baronet's defence of his consistency against the charge of the
Noble Lord. The measure was not so much the measure of
the Right Hon. Baronet as the measure of the necessity of the
times. He was sorry to see so much party spirit exhibited on
the other side in discussing this quest on. lie did not approve
of the practice of alluding to former debates, and of raking
up old speeches—(Opposition cheers)—and it was a practice
which he hoped every young member would endeavour to put
a stop to.—(A laugh.) He thought that, except in case of
necessity, such a tax as the present ought not to be imposed;
but he thought, although the necessity existed in the present
instance, it was merely a financial necessity. There had not
been one word fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet which could
raise a feeling of despondency in the minds of any one. The
budget of the late Government had been rejected by so large a
majority that it would be impossible to carry it. They had
lett many good intentions as a legacy to their successors, but
they had left them no money, and hence the deficiency, hence
the neces ity for imposing an Income-tax, to make good that
deficiency. Surely the army beyond the Indus was a British
army, and the navy in the China Seas was a British navy,
and entitled to the support of the House. He hoped the
question of Affghanistan would not be discussed in the House
of Commons, because he believed if the late Government, in
their own defence, should be compelled to lay before the House
all the reasons which had influenced them to undertake the
war in Affghanistan, he feared that the disclosures which they
might be compelled in self-defence to make might seriously
complicate our relations with some of the Powers with which
we were now allied. What were our relations with France
and with Ameeiea ? He for one could not but regret
the treaty of the 15th of July, 1840, the consequences of
which he believed were more serious than was commonly
supposed. The suspicions and jealousies of the people of
France towards the people of this country were the deplorable
fruits of that treaty. There was one part of this measure
which he earnestly desired to see modified. The Right
lion. Baronet had given an exemption to the working classes
of this country. lie thought there should be some consi-
deration for the labour of the head, as well as the labour of
the hand, and that incomes derived from trades and profes-
sions should nit be subjected to the same tax as lauded pro-
perty.—( Hear, hear.) Some reduction from the Three per
Cents., in favour of incomes subject to risk, and derived from
intense labour, would be hailed by the country with the greatest
satisfaction. In conclusion, he must say, that lie anticipated
a period when the deficiency would be removed, and the coun-
try relieved entirely from this now necessary burden.
Mr. RAIK ES CURRIE said, he considered the measure
proposed by the Government as at once bold, honest, and
comprehensive—required by the exigencies of the times, and,
as far as he could see, not more objectionable than any sub-
stitute which could be proposed. It was bold on account of
its inquisitorial character, and because it was likely to excite
the opposition of the middle 'classes ; but, as he believed it to
be honest--honest, because in this measure they proceeded to
tax themselves, and not the %corking classes, he was pre-
pared to bear any odium which might arise from its in-
quisitorial character.—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.)
It was a comprehensive measure, because in the tariff there was
an attempt to invigorate and expand trade, the source of all
revenue—therefore he thought it was a comprehensive mea-
sure. It had been attempted by miserable expedients to ward
off the evil day with respect to the finances of the country.—
(Loud cheers.) lie must say that this had been the case for
years past. lie felt grave apprehensions with respect to the
termination of the oriental war. Looking to. the state of
Europe he thought that a fall Exchequer and a wellsiratined
fleet was the best guarantee for peace. It had been proposed
to tax heritable property, but they must consider what was the
object of the tax, and they must consider their present emer-
gency. When Hon. Members asked him if he could look with
Iris free trade principles at the money resourses in the country,
and then vote for the Income-tax, he answered that
the Whigs had prevented them, by their course of
legislation, the means of obtaining these beneficial enact-
merits.--( Cries of " Hear, hear.") They ought to have
had a different system of representation, but the Noble Lord,
the Member for London, had said that he wou'd hear of no alte-
rat ioe in the Reform Bill ; he declared it to be a final measure.
A friend of the Noble Lord's had said that he would in five mi-
nutes take the command of the Chancel Fleet, or build St. Pe
ters. --(Loud laughter) But the Noble Lord had undertaken a
much greater task, for he attempted to erect the temple of free
trade on the tomb-stone of monopoly. He (Mr. Currie)
wished to live and die under the existing institutions, but he
wished to see justice done to the people. A great class had
sprung up, in consequence of the Noble Lord shutting the door
of the constitutions of the mass of the people, and hence had
sprung up the agitation for universal suffrage. The Right
Honourable Gentlemen opposite had been most unjustly ac-
cused. '1 hat Right Hon .(gentleman had declared that he would
never bring forward other men's measures. He( Mr. C.) hoped to
see in that a better system. He (Mr. C.) felt that they must
unletter trade. The day was over for monopoly he hoped, and
if free trade were not adopted, it would be taken and supported
by the wreck of all our institutions. To use the words of the
Right lion. Gentleman, he could not be the dupe of the so-
phistries of his followers ; he could not be cleated by the bug-
bear of men of dependency. He mud think that dependency
was the hand-maid of commerce, and the preservative of pewee.
The Right Hon. Baronet was an able Minister, and a states-
man experienced in debate, perhaps unrivalled—a man whose
name would live when they were forgotten—when his (Mr.
Currie's), and many Hon. Gentlemen around, would be buried
in oblivion. Would he, then not use his master-spirit, and rise,
like a god, to do justice to the country ? Would he not look
down, from that dizzy height on which he was placed, and,
like the men of old, confer blessings on a suffering nation.
air. T. DUNCOMBE said that if one half of the compli-
ments he had just heard paid to the flight lion. Baronet oppo-
site were true, every one in that House, and every one out of it,
who read those compliments, must be perfectly satisfied that
the nation was, at the present moment, the most favoured
nation of the earth— ( Laughter and cheers)—and that we had
arrived at the political millenium; and they ought to be pleased
to hear that th of the country were to be regulated

by .the Right Hon. Baronet7-that our forces were paid by the
[light Hon. 111enber for Kent--when they saw fhat
t ates of England were appointed by the Right Hon. Baronet,
the Home Secretary, the 'Member for the great and independent
constituency of Derchester.—( Cheers. ) These were events
that, according to the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down,
ought to be worshipped. Sorry should he (Mr. Duncombe)
be to prevent the Hon. Member who had just spoken living
and dying under any institut ion he thought proper. He said he
hoped he should live and die under' the existing institutions.
He (Mr. Duncombe) hoped he might, but he hoped he
might live long, and that theday of his death might be long
removed, but he trusted it would not take place un-
der that Goverment that now oppressed the eountry.—( Loud
laughter.) With regard to the eulogy the Honourable
Gentleman had pail her Majesty's Government, he (Mr.
Currie) admitted that the measures were comprehensive, bold,
and honest. He (Mr. Duncombe) admitted they were com
prehensive, for he believed they were measures that would
tiring down universal distress and every sort of havoc on the
country.—( Cheers and laughter.) \Then the Hon. Gentle
man said it was an honest measure, lie (Mr. Duncombe) differed
e jib him. He denied that it was a bold measure.
—he denied that it. was an honest measure. The
lion. Member for Psx.fret said nothing but a strong Govern-
ment could have proposed such a measure, so obnoxious,
so disgust ing—( Chters and laughter ) to the people
of this country. But bow were they strong ? why,
in numbers. Were they strong:in public confidenee.—(Cheers,
• and counter cheers. ) He denied it. lfe denied that the measures
were. The hight Honourable Baronet was supported
by Gentlemen who would support every injustice to keep the
Right Hon. Baronet in office The Hon. Member for Pom-
fret said he should like to see a dissolution —so should he (Mr.
Duncombe). He would like to see that; but the Right Hon.
Baronet was too good a judge. That juggle which has been
going on through the debates, did not prove that the working
classes wouldbe benefited by the measures of the Government.
The Right Hon. Baronet seemed to say, that while he took
money from one pocket of the people, he crammed into the
other beef, mutton, and other provisions.—(Laughter.) But
up rose some greasy farmer, and when he complained of the
injury to be inflicted on his interest, the Right Hon. Baronet
told him that ho was mistaken, and that neither foreign meats,
nor any other articles of foreign produce would find their way
under his new legislation into t his country. The measures of
the Government would not really benefit the working classes.
Let them look to the case of the hoot and shoe.4tiakers, or the
case of the cork-cutters. 'There could be no doubt that
the contemplated changes would prove most detrimental
to the interests of these classes ; but while they were de-
prived of their protection, the protection to the landowner was
continued almost in its former state. He believed that the
cork-cutters, in particular, would most severely suffer from the
operation of the new tariff ; and yet that was a class which de-
served every consideration from the House. It was their
boast that not one of their body was supported at the expense
of the parish. Again, lie believed, that the change in the duty
upon foreign boots an.l shoes would throw 80,000 individuals
engaged iu that trade in this country into the workhouse. The
straw-bonnet makers would equally be sufferers; and he de-
fied the Right lion. Baronet to show that his contemplated
alterations would benefit the working classes generally. Yet
the Income-tax was the price at which those changes were
to be purchased. He did not think that tax would
ha long borne by the country.—( Hear.) The measure
was not an honest—the measure was not a bold measure. He
would ask why they did nut extend it to Ireland? Ireland had
been benefited as much as England by one of the great sources
of the deficiency in the revenue—he meant the reduction in the
Post-office. If the measure were good for England it would
be good for Ireland ; and it should be extended to both coun-
tries. The Income-tax had formerly operated most oppres-
sively. It was well-known that there had been 11,000 sur-
charges at the time in the city of London alone, and out of
these alleged surcharges 3,000 were reversed, 1,000 were con-
firmed ; and the 7,000 remaining traders in the City thought
it advisable to submit quietly to the injustice which they com-
plained of. 'I hat was a striking proof of the iniquitous
way in which the tax had operated, and in which he
believed it would still operate. He admitted that there
was an apathy in the country as to what was done in
that House upon the subject; but the reason of that was that
the people were indifferent to what passed in Parliament, be-
cause they knew that that House did not represent their in-
terests. He (Mr. Duncombe) had, however, met no man
outside the walls of that House favourably to the measure. The
proposed tax would tend to limit and restrict the franchise in
boroughs. It would render the restration more difficult. It

would'enable the (lover nment to control the honourable elector,
and he (Mr. Duncombe) took it for granted that the new tax-
collector wouldact perfectly in concert with the 3ti4 new Ma-
gistrates appointed by the Government. The tax might ue
passed in that House ; but he felt persuaded the country would
soon be tired of the measure, and he was happy to say that to
the last he had opposed it.
Ur. ROEBUCK, who spoke in a very indistinct tone, was
understood to commence by complaining of the manner in
which Hon. Members, who differed from their party upon any
great question of policy, were stigmatised in that House. There
were certain leaders whom it seemed to be thought humble in-
dividuals like Ipimself should follow upon all occasions; and
when they differed from those bright lightS it was necessary
they should state why they had followed their own small candle.
He wished to address the Howe on that occasion, because he
found that what had fallen from him on the subject under dis-
cussion had been subjected to much criticism. He was glad
he had at least one defender that night on the same side of the
House, who had spoken of the proposal of the Government as
a straightforward, a bold, and a comprehensive measure.
He would thus have the eloquent defence of his Hon. Friend
the Member for Northampton (Mr. R. Currie) to fall hack
upon, if he should himself be wholly unab'e to say anything in
his own defence.—( Ilear, hear.) He proposed to take a view
of the measures proposed on both sides of the House ; and if it
appeared that the remedy proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet
was the most complete, he would have justified the course he
should take. First, let him consider the points in which the
Noble Lord and the Right Hon. Baronet agreed. it was ac-
knowledged by t4pe Noble. Lord that there was a great defi-
ciency—the amount of th it deficiency hail been allowed by all.
The Noble Lora had also allowed that that deficiency ought to
be made up, and tha the current expenses of the year should
be provided for. So far the Noble Lord and the Right Hon.
Baronet were agreed. Both agreed in stating, however, that
the' deficiency must be met by payment, and there he
dpffered from them. He contended that it was a reduc-
tion of the expenditure, and not by the imposition
of new taxes that the difficulty was to be met. The constitu-
encies had no right to complain of that proposition ; having
elected the Bight Hon. Baronet the burden imposed fell justly
upon them. It was the unrepresented classes whohad alone a
right to complain of any measure which the Government
might 'propose. The unrepresented had just cause for indigna-
tion. What, then, were the means proposed to meet the de-
ficit? Before he came to that point, he begged to deprecate
a practice which prevailed, of quoting Hansard to show on
which side the fault lay; each party trying to prove that the
other had caused the mischief, and each wes now engaged in
reeritninatine the opposite
evil being admitted, how wapsairtt3t'o.—
beimleeat i r
Baronet said he must raise two or three millions each year to
heTairi.e)RiWghetllnothne.
cover the expenses of the year, and he said he could not do that
by means of the tariff.—( Hear.) He (Mr. Roebuck) had
observed that the Noble Lord on that side of the House had
never asserted that the deficiency would be supplied by the
means which he proposed. The Noble Lord approved of the
amendments proposed in the tariff by the Right lion, Baronet.
Besides this, he proposed a fixed duty upon coin, not so much
to raise revenue as to regulate the duty. Both the Right Hon.
B Pronet and the Noble Lord opposite agreed in the necessity of
affording protection to corn; there he was at issue with
As regards protection to the landed interest, and as regards the
tariff, both, then, were agreed. Before he dismissed that part
of the topic he could not help noticing the fact that the Noble
Lord, whilst he had proposed a reduction of the duty on sugar,
had never proposed to admit foreign provisions. He rejoiced
that they had a Minister bold enough to make such a proposal,
and power enough, spite of the opposition behind
him, to carry it into effect..—(Louil cries of " Hear, hear.")
Now, the Right lion. Baronet proposed, by a direct tax, to
supply the deficiency, which the Noble Lord had not intended
to supply. It had been said that they might gain some money
from lowering the different articles, but it had never been shown
that the whole amount would be raised. A great deal had been
said about defalcation. Now, he thought that the only ques-
tion which the Legislature ought to ask itself, in considering
that question, was this, 'Whether the people could annually re-
produce as much as was. taken from them ? There could be no
legerdemain used to produce this effect; but, supposing any-
fiscal instrument could be devised for the attainment of that
cud, would the Noble Lord Note for it? He answered, no !
He who was for protection for agriculture, who must have an
Bs. duty, was not the man for a thorough reformation- of the
fiscal regulations of the country, that would give the people the
full benefit of their own industry. He, therefore, judged that
with the House, as at present formed, he couldnot expect a total
repeal of the Corn-laws. That was the mainspring of all. al-
terations. Unless they could reduce the price of that article
they did nothing ; and what the people desired in this respect,
this House would not effect. It had been opposed by the Noble
Lord, as well as by the Gentlemen opposite. The people had
failed in this great object. He was there to do his best
under the circumstances, and how could he do it.? By leaving
the finances of the country in that uncertain and irregular
stats in which they would have been left, if the propositions of
the Noble Lord had been carried ? Or, on the other hand.
with a full knowledge of the difficulties, was he to take the
means offered for getting out of them—means painful, if
they liked, but not so painful as many of the exag-
gerations of the effects of the law might lead them
to suppose. Was he to vote for the Noble Lord, and leave the
finances of the •country in a state in which no wise statesman, its
which no man of probity, of courage, or of honour, would leave
them?—(Cheers from the Tory benches.) It was not enough to
come to him and say he believed they might do something good—
every man must make a sacrifice. Ile was not to be told of the
inquisitorial nature of the tax ; that was the cry, the cuckoo note
of the present day, rung in the ears of every man who thought with
him on the questioe. When the people looked the danger in the
face, and came to a clear perception of the state of Strings, he be.
lieved all this talk of the inquisitorial nature of the tax, would fade
before actual experience.—( Hear, hear.) And, it it did not, was
it not their duty to act according to what they thought
right, and give the people • time to come to a sound opinion,
He was not to be frightened by the bugbear of the inquisitorial
nature of the tax. Then there was some idle talk of this being only
were
only
i t:
India or Europe.
a war tax, What was the meaning of a war tax ? He supposed
it was
making
e, thedi
eproceedsfrre,,c ewhether it
be spent in war,
lie would ask those Gentleman who had got ul) this bubble*. in
n o,y of whlerircl:b
a t a
was
Affghanistan whether there was not an expensive war there ?
Was there not an expensive war in China ? It was a war that
must be paid for, and must be paid for by a tax ; it would, there.
fore, be a war tax.—(llear, hear.) They talked of this being a
peculiar reserve in time of need—was not this a time of need ?
Ilad they not been going on for the last ten years like spenthrifts
were not they ashamed to look the Public creditor
in the face? And was it trot necessary that we should make up our
annual expense, and pay it directly over the counter?—(Haar'
hear.) They might go on shuffling, and producing paltry and petty
plans of expediency, but it was money they roust have, and it was
the people who must supply it. if they did not like the' mode they
took of supplying it, the remedy was in their own hands. If the
constituencies complained, they had nothing to do but to turn out
every man who had voted, not for the tax, but for keeping up the
expenditure. That would be a sweeping mode of clearing the
House, very few. would escape that besom of destruction._
(Hear, hear.) The advantage of this tax was that the people
would know what they had to pay, while it would take the
least out of their pockets. It would test the value of men's opinions,
and prove whether men were acting from national, personal, or
party views. Those who acted from national views should brave
present displeasure; those who acted from personal views would
be swayed by personal considerations; while those who acted from
party would merely follow their leader. He might be wrong in
his notions of political economy, but having balanced the two
propositions, he must vote for that of the Right lion. Baronet, in
the hope that he might hereafter persuade the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman to alter that part of the plan which was really unjust—that
which seeks to impose an Income-tax.—(" 011, oh.") Against that
in Committee, he should distinctly vote.—(Hear, hear.) He be.
lieved there were means of rendering the tax equal to all. A tax
on property, without a tax on income, would be unjust, but a tax
that should press equally on income and on property would not be
fair. In Committee, therefore, he, should use every means of in-
ducing the Right Hon. Baronet to alter that portion of the tax.
He believed that the exigency of the time required the tax, and he
was prepared to vote for the Right Hon. Baronet. Ile believed that
he alone of the two statestnen who had Inn forward their plans,
had really brought forward a plan equal to the exigencies before
them—..who fairly met the difficulty in the face—who had stated
it in the extent to which it ought to be exhibited, and
who had met it without circumlocution. There might be

cases of error, but he believed he had honestly put it forth,
with-Out indulging in shuffling expedients—(Hear, hear)—and so
far he was more worthy of the confidence of the people than those
who were now opposed to them.—(Cheers.)
Mr. WALLACE had heard the speech of the Hon. Member for
Bath without surprise; though the Hon. Gentleman was known
to possess great logical powers, yet it was the most illogical speech
he had ever heard. He denied that it was at all applicable to the
case they were handling. He contended that the Hon. Member
knew nothing about it.—(Laughter.) The Hon. Member for
Finsbury had described how the affairs of individuals would be
exposed, and the country would never submit to it ; and
if they did, they were riot Englishmen, and neither Irish nor
Scotch—(Hear, bear)—or, if he were Irish, he would be the only
noodle the country ever produced. Some Irish Members on the
other side of the House had approved of the tax, and the Right Hon.
Gentleman ought to put it on Ireland.. If he did not, he (Mr. W.)
should propose that Scotland be exempted.—(" Oh, oh," and
laughter.) He was convinced that no plan would secure secrecy,
and he should give his vote against it with the greatest pleasure.
Mr. SHARMAN CR AWI ORD rose amid loud cries of
" Divide." He should not have trespassed on the attention of the
House, but for a matter which called for explanation. It had
been stated that a memorial had been agreed to at Roch-
dale in favour of the plan of the Right Honourable
Baronet. He disputed that memorial as representing the
general opinion of the borough. A public meeting had
been called in the borough, at which it hal been agreed without a
dissentient voice, that the Income-tax ought to be opposed. Rut
whatever might be the opinion of the people of Rochdale, lie could
not so far depart from his own opinion as to vote fur the pro.
pesition. He could not ct•nsent to impose a tax so oppressive on
the community, and should feel it his duty to vote against it.
Mr. COBDEN did not oppose the Ine.ene.tax as the Income.
tax, but as he would oppose any tax in the present circumstances
of the country. He contended that rigid economy should be in-
troduced into every department of the Government, and he
would not, because he was in a minority upon that point,
follow the example of the Honourable Member fur Bath.
and swell that majority which was already too large. In the next
place, he approved of it, because the country was already paying
taxes to individuals, which, if repeated, would yield an abundant
revenue to the state, and he could not consent to the imposition of
new taxes until all monopolies were abolished. In bringing forward
the question of the Corn-laws, the Right,Hon. Baronet denied that
the distresses of the country were caused by any restrictions upon
trade; but, in bringing forward his budget, and his grand system of
tariff' reform, he certainly discovered that the restrictions on trade
and commerce were the causes of the distress of the country; and
the Noble Lord, the Member for South Lancashire, who for three
years had opposed even giving them a hearing when they
complained of restrictions, now, all at once turned round, and
said that it would be criminal to delay passing these measures
even for an hour. For the last three years the manufacturing
world had been expressing their opinion as to the remedy for the
evils under which they had been suffering, and they all point to
one remedy—the abolition of the• Corn and Provision-laws; and
yet the Right lion. Baronet omitted, from his tariff, the most im.
portant of all articles of commerce—corn.—(Loud cheers, and cries
of " Questitm, question.") I, was the question. The tariff and
the Income-tax were so mixed up together, that they could not be
considered separately. Ile had likewise excluded the next most
important article of consumption—sugar. Some false ideas on
this subject might naturally be expected to exist out of
doors, when they found even the Honourable Member for
Bath expressing a doubt whether any alteration in the sugar duties
would conduce to the comfort of the people.
Mr. ROEBUCK rose amidst loud cries of " Order, order."
He rose to order, he begged to disclaim the expressions imputed to
him by the Hon. Gentleman.

Mr. COBDEN would only make one further remark upon the
subject, which was, that they could at this moment get two casks of
Cuba or Brazilian sugar, in bond, for the same quantity of manu.
factures which they were obliged to give to Jamaica monopolists
for one cask, and Mr. McGregor had said, that if they would
equalise the sugar duties they would add three trillions sterling to
the revenue. He admitted that the alteration, as to the importation
of live cattle, was important as conceding a principle, but there
could never be any great traffic in live cattle, and consequently
never any great exportation of goods in exchange for them, and
this could not be accepted as any compensation for an Income-tax,
because any duty paid upon live cattle would be an addition to the
revenue. With regard to the alteration of the timber duties, he
thought that was a useless sacrifice of revenue. There
were thirty thousand empty houses in the neighbourhood of Man-
chester alone; there were more ships lying in ordinary than
ever had been known, and that was the time chosen to make this
alteration. There was no reduction in the duties on cheese or
butter, and with regard to the duties on salt meat he doubted
much whether the people of this country would even consume
much salt meat with advantage'to their health. The present
duty on salt meat was 12s. per cwt., and there was no consume.
Lion, and it was not likel, consumption would be increased by re-
ducing the duty to Bs. The duty on cotton remained unreduced.
A great deal had been done in trifles; but all the great articles
had been passed over, and this was the compensation they were to
receive for an Income.tax. The Right Hon. Baronet gave
them cheap timber when it was not wanted. He gave them a
free trade in cattle when the people were reduced to a potato diet,
and wanted bread—(Cheers)—and he admitted French boots and
shoes, and gloves, to compete v.ith the produce of the halfemployad
artisans of this country, while at the same time they refused to let
them touch one grain of Normandy wbeat.—(Loud cheers.) It
was a crying injustice in the guise of free trade. It was

. .. -...
beginning at the wrong end. It_ was calculated to cast an

odium on the character of free trade, and as a free trader-be pro.
tested against it. He hoped, however, it would rouse the suffering
interest to demand, as they ought to do, a free trade in the first
necessary of life.—(Loud cheering.) Ile disclaimed on the part
of the free trade's any responsibility for the Income-iax. It was
not necessary to carry out the principles of free trade, and he re-
pudiated as fraudulent all such pretences.—(Loud cheers.) The
articles in which they wanted a free trade were those articles which
paid-no revenue to the State, but which, instead, paid a revenue
to individuals, who put their hands in the pocket of the people,
without rendering the State any service whatever. A free trade
in corn and sugar would be more important than all the Right
Hon. Baronet proposed to do.—(Cheers.) Ile knew he should :be
told of the petition which had been presented from Manchester,
in favour of the Government measure. Ile was glad to hear the
Hon. Gentlemen opposite were inclined to pay so much attention
to*petitions from Manchester. For the last three years petitions,
signed by 60,000 persons had been presented trona Manchester,
for a repeal of the Corn-laws, but no attention had been paid to
them. The petition in favour of the Government measure was the
offspring of a blind spirit of partisanship. (Hear,
hear) and he was sorry and ashatned to say that
the first parties in promoting that petition were the clergy of the
Establishment.—(Hear, hear.) Those Gentlemen who so loudly
proclaimed that they never interfered in party politics, now they
saw the Corn Bill safe, came forward as a party body to support a
party Government, and so rash and indiscreet had they been in
their spirit of partisanship, that they had actually petitioned for the
tariff as it had originally heen laid on the table of the House without
waiting to sec what alterations were to be proposed—they had
actually petitioned for the unamended tariff; errors of the press and
all, and would have to petition afresh in favour of the amended one.
Hon. Gentlemen need not be impatient ; he was going to sit down,
but he knew what he was saying was very unpalatable; but he
thought that as the representative of a community like the desolated
population of Stockport, he bad not been wrong in pressing their
sufferings upon the House. When these measures were brought
forward as a panacea to the distress of the people, he considered lie
had a right to express his opinion. He was bound to tell them that
they were enthely deluded ; he was bound to tell them that they
would not find a revival of trade which would give them an oppor..
tunity of removing the Income-tax. They had delayed it too long.
Me questioned whether any remedy of any kind would be in time.
During the first six months of last year there had been a reduction
in.the wages of Lancashire alone, which might be equalled to five
millions sterling. Let them think of this out of the trade and
the Exchequer of the country.—(Hear, hear.) Thia was the
ease through all the counties, and especially the midland counties.
—(Hear.) How then could the country be prosperous, ate-stated
by the Right Honourable Baronet, when the revenue depended on
the prosperity of the working classes ? He could only look at
the proposal of taxation as the symptom of the State disease two
years ago. The Right Honourable Baronet, with figures and sta.
tistics, attempted to prove that we were not in a state of suffering.
But now he tatne and proposed an Income-tax. He (Mr. Cobden)
told them that if they did not go further they would be disap-
pointed. They had now the remedy in their own hands to relieve
the commerce of the country. Give the people of England
fair scope fur their industry, and they might have prosperity yet ;
and if they did not, then he warned them of the consequences.
They had worked out the bees, and now they were beginning on

the honeycomb, and how long would that last? lie said that the
remedy they applied was not sufficient. They knew that when
Arkwright WAS inventing Isis machinery and distending his int.
provements, when compla:tits was made to him of the state
of the country and the expenses, he said, Never mind, I will pay
the expenses of the country. And so it had been the cotton trade
that enabled them to pay the accumulated debt of that war—that

bade that was so much despised in that House. If they destroyed
that trade, they would have a terrible re-action, that would come
heavily upon them, and upon this they had the testimony of David
Hume, who said it would be sooner than they believed.
Mr. MUNTZ said that he entirely agreed with the Hon. Mem.
her who had just sat down, that the proposed measures would not
relieve the distressed state of the country. But he did not see
that was any reason why they should not have a popes ty-tax. He
had as much objection to an Income-tax as any man in the world ;
but as the Right Hon. Baronet would not propose a property-tax
without ass income-tax he (Mr. Muntz) would rattler have them to-
gether than no property-tax at all.—(Hear, hear.) His object
was to lay the burden, upon the lawmakers, which was the best
means of snaking the laws good. Au Hon. Gentleman had said
that the votes were given to party. His (Mr. Monies) vote was
not a party vote, Ile never was a man to vote for party. Ile in-
tended to vote for the motion of the Right Honourable Baronet,
because he considered it to be to the interest of the people at large ;
not to the interest of his supporters, perhaps, but that was no con.
sideration with him.—( Laughter.) If his vote did not please his
constituents they knew what to do.—(Renewed laughter.) His
object was to lay the burden of the taxation on those who were
c.sispetent to bear it, and who were the framers and directors of the
Law. Now his objection to ass Income-tax—(Loud laughter)—he
did not know that what he was going to say would call forth a
laugh—he had said before that he objected to an Income-tax, and
he was going to state his reasons why. Ile thought it
was exceedingly inquisitorial, and would tall exceedingly
heavy on tradesman who, in times like these, dared not make
their all'airs known to the public, and who were obliged to make a
return of profits they never realised. He well remembered the last
seven years of the last Income-tax. It was at a time whets he was
in active life, and largely concerned in business, but he did not think

this was a sufficient reason for his objection to a property...tax.
If he had believes that tl.e propo.at of the former Government
would have rendered the Ineome.tax unnecessary, he should have
felt bound to have voted against the measure, Ile did not believe
that the measures of the late Government would have realised
their expectations. As he said before, he wished to see the bur.
dens of the country put upon the law.maker. Ile did not be-
lieve the measure now proposed would relieve the distresses of the
people.— (Loud laughter.) Ills only object in rising was to jus.
tity the vote he intended to give.—(Laughter.) Ile had not the
slightest objection to lion. Gentlemen laughing. Ile had nothing
further to say.—(Laughter and cheers.)
After a few words from Mr. RUNDALL,

Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House divided,
when the numbers were—
For the Amendment
Against the Amendment
Majority against the Amendment —97
The Bill was then read a first time, and was ordered to be r cad
a second time on Friday next.

The House then resolved itself into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. GREENE in the chair.

8,t253,000/. was voted for Exchequer Bilis.
60,000/. was voted for civil contingencies.
The resolutions were reported, the House resumed, and the
Chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again.
The House then went into Committee on the Municipal Cor.
poratlons Bill.
Mr. LEADER objected to the Bill, and said that unless it were
materially altered in the second reading he should feel it his duty to
oppose it.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL stated the objects of the Bill

It had been the opinion of the legal officers, both of the present and
the late Government, as well as of several lawyers in Westminster
Hall, that parties holding leases of Corporation lands, were eligible
to serve as Town.couneillors. On this opinion the public had acted
in full confidence till the Bridgenorth case, in which a contrary de.
cision was given. The object of his Bill was merely to prevent actions
going on, which under the circumstances he had stated might be
brought to the extent of many hundreds, and to assure the public
that the evils incurred from acting on what turned out not to be
law, should be cured by Act of Parliament. It would
secure those who had been already elected in the enjoy.
ment of their offices. The Bill was short and confined.
If It should be considered the Bill would be defective without the

introduction of clauses to prevent the entering into contracts by
Town-councillors for the disposal of these leases, which might
open a door to jobbing, he would be glad to concur in them, end

•
would readily adopt the clauses proposed by the Member opposite
fur that purone.
Mr. LEADER thought this a bad way of attacking an Act
of Parliament, and thought the Bill was a dangerous one,
although he approved of the amended clauses, which, however,
ought to be printed before the House was called on to decide on
them. If they must have the Bill, he hoped they would have the
new clauses with it. The Bill, in fact, repealed one of the most
important provisions of the Municipal Reform Act.
Mr. HODGES LUNDE hoped the Bill would be permitted to be
advanced one stage, after it bad beets so often delayed.
Mr. J. JERVIS thought the Bill ought to be recommitted.
After a short conversation, the Bill, as amended, went through
Committee, and the House then resumed.

The Report on the Customs' Duties (Wcst India and North Ame-
rican Colonies) Bill was brought up, and the Report was agreed to.
The second reading of the Turnpike Roads Bill was postponed
till Thursday, after a short discussion.

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at One o'Cloa

ELECTION COMMITTEES.
WAKEFIELD.

The first part of the case fer the petitioner closed yesterday.
Evidence having been given to show that no the day of the
election Mr. Lascelles' agentshad protested against Mr. lioulds-
wurth becoming a candidate on the ground that he was the
legal returning-officer, and had given notice of Mr. lloulds-
wort h's disqualification to those who tendered their votes for
that gentleman. Mr. Worthy, on behalf of the petitioners,
contended that Mr. Houldsworth was disqualified, that all the
necessary notices of that diNualification had been given to the
tlectots, and that therefore 111 r. Lascelles was entitled to claim
the seat.