The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-04 00:00:00

cumstances that had occurred. I understood from one
gentleman that he had been offered Exchequer bills for a
loan, but he rejected them, as they were suspicious, and
this gentlemen gave me to understand that the same par-
ties had a quantity of Exchequer bills—these individually
devoid of character—that were all ready for signature.
Thew are circumstances, on the part o.`: the
public, which require to be inquired into, that
we may properly understand the real nature
of the subject. It is, therefore, with this view that I
shall call upon Parliament to institute a specific inquiry
—(Cheers)—Rot to be conducted by a Committee of
this House—(Hear)—or by a mere Commision appointed
by the Crown ; but, Sir, by a Commission appointed by
Parliament to investigate the real nature of these several
transactions ; to see how business was transacted by
these several persons ; to know whether they
were men of such suspicious characters that
honest men would hardly be connected with them ;
whether for the money advanced on the bills they received
in return an interest beyond the market rate.—(Hear,
hear.) These and a variety of other circumstances
require to be rigidly and strictly investigated before the
House can be called on to come to any final decision
on the question ; nay, before we can be called on
to understand the nature of the case with which we

have to deal.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, an inquiry of
this kind requires the highest moral consideration ;.it
is essential that the public of the country should
know how business is conducted. It is quite right
they should knew it, because if we believe that the per-
sons at the head of this office were well ac-
quainted with the duties they had to perform,
and exercised care and attention in their several
occupations, and that these practices still occurred, a
different set of regulations will be necessary. Sir,
there is perhaps another circutnstance to which I
ought to advert, which has been pressed on
me by many gentlemen in a variety of ways. I
allude to claims for compensation. To the claims so
brought before me, I have, as I conceived it my duty
to do, given the most decided refusal. The granting
of claims for compensation, in a case of this kind, is
to take away from the public the greatest security they
have against the repetition of such offences, and
is to do all in your power to render such
practices of more frequent occurrence. Sir, if I
were once to give my opinion that a man taking
these bills were to be compensated for any loss
he might undergo, what could I do more, to re-
move all blame froni him ; or what could I do
more effectual to encourage a criminal individual
to • seduce a public servant, being sure that the
termination of the affair must be that he
should- receive any money that he had expended ?
I, therefore, Sir, have chosen to give the least encourage-
ment to propositions of this kind, and I do most decidedly
advise the House and Parliament to weigh well all the
considerations of this case, before they are led away
by any statements of party or individual hardship,
or individual suffering, before they yield to claims of
this nature. Sir, it appears to me, I confess, before the
House can enter on a question of the sort, that they must
satisfy themselves that there is some distinction to be
drawn between the law as it applies to forgery on indi-
viduals, and also to forgery oa the public—that they must
make up their minds to this, that it is not expedient
to give to the holder of a forged instrument a remedy
against the party issuing it. I do not mean to say
that there may not be instances wherein the House
should forego this rule, but I advi,,e them to resist
any encouragement to parties, be they who they may,
that their claims will be satisfied before the whole nature
of the transaction be brought to light.—(dear, hear.)
For, Sir, if it should appear that these crimes have
been committed by means of putting confidence in suspi-
cious individuals—nay, in individuals more than suspi-
cious, whose conduct in previous transactions had
given a taint .to them ; and if it should fur-
ther appear that there was a species of se-
cresy enjoined when these bills_ were deposited
as security that was not usual ; if it should ap-
pear that the interest demanded was greater than
under similar circumstances would be demanded
upon fair and honourable transactions ; if it should ap-
ear that when a bill escape.l from what I shall call the
imprisonment in which it was put, that a premium
was offered to get hold of that particular bill
—if I say all these circumstances should be the result of
inquiry, I think, until those points are made clear,
that the House and the. Government should ab-
stain from holding out the slightest expecta-
tion to any parties, that they are called upon
to prevent the adoption of the ordinary course.
With these views, therefore, I shall conclude by proposing
to Parliament that theyshould appoint a Commission for
the purpose of inquiring as to the receipt, circulation, and
possession of certain forged Exchequer Bills.—(Hear.)
An Honourable Gentleman opposite has given notice
of a motion as an amendment to the one which I propose
for that purpose, and referrinr, this 'natter to a Select
Committee. I presume that the lonourable Gentleman's
motion is, like mine, for the purpose of obtaining full
knowledge of everything that has taken plaoe.
I prefer the motion I shall submit to the -House
to that of the Honourable Gentleman, and I trust
that the Honourable Member will give me credit for
not wishing to throw any obstacle in the way of this
measure. I think that the course which I mean to pur-
sue is by far the better one. By appointing
Commissioners they will have the power of appointing
parties, who constitute in themselves high legal
authority ; they will not be liable to be influenced by
any consideration relative to constituency ; and
they will be best qualified to investigate the
real circumstances of the case. They wilt have
the fullest power to make the most searching
inquiry into all the points of the case, to
which I have alluded ; and I confidently trust their
report will be satisfactory—that there will be no point
unknown to either Parliament or the country—and that
Parliament and Government will therefore be in a situa-
tion to judge what is the course which will be most
advisable for them to pursue, and which will be most
conducive to the prevention of a similar crime, and the
preservation of the public credit.—(Hear.) •
Mr. KEMBLE said that having been requested at the
commencement of the Session by the holders of Ex-
chequer bills, to preient a petition to the House on
,pheir behalf, and having found by the rules
of the House that it was impossible that
he could present that petition without the recom-
mendation of Government, he had waited most
anxiously till the Right. Hon. Gentleman had made his
statement. With the greater part of what the
Right Hon. Gentleman had said he (Mr. K.) fully con-
curred. That the subject was one of great importance
'there could be no doubt, and he should not have
risen to make any observations had it not been
for something like a reflection which had been cast by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer upon the holders of those
Bills. He (Mr. K.) would venture to say on their behalf
that some of the holders of these Exchequer bills would be
found among the most respectable and honourable men
that thiS great metropolis could produce ; and he only
hoped the House would suspend their opinion
on the transaction under discussion till that full
inquiry which the Right Honourable Gentlemen pro-
posed had taken place. 'He (Mr. K.) had been made ac-
quainted with the circumstances attending that transaction,
but it would be unjust to the parties themselves to enter
further into the discussion of them at present. He
could only say if the Right Hon. Gentleman gave the
consent of the Government to having that petition to
which he alluded presented, it would be seen that the
course intended to be pursued by the Right Honour-
able Gentleman was just such a one as the holders
of those bills would require. He was not at
liberty exactly to read the prayer of the pe-
tition, but he might be allowed to read what
was the conclusion of that petition. From it the
House would see that the holders of the bills in
question demanded nothing more than a strict and rigid
inquiry into this affair—an inquiry which was due
both to themselves and to the public at large.
The petitioners went on to say, each for himself, that
their conduct in the receipt of those Exchequer bills, and
the advances they had made on their security, had been an
honest bona fide proceeding, perfectly regular, and in
the ordinary course of business ; and therefore
they solicited from that Hon. House, through such
means - as its wisdom might suggest, • a most
scrupulous and effective investigation into all the
circumstances of the case, so far as they
were concerned , and they were willing, to
state all they knew . about it on oath, and to
produce all books, papers, and writings, connected
with it in their possession ; for they made this appeal to
the Hon. House confident that the result would fully
satisfy the House that the conduct of the petitioners in
the receipt of such bills, had been honourable, regular,
and unexceptionable in every respect.—(Hear, hear.)
He (Mr. K.) confidently believed that the gentlemen
who signed that petition had nothing to keep in the
back ground.—(Hear, hear.) They desired and expected
. a rigid examination, such in fact as the Chancellor of
the Exchequer proposed.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. K.)
would not now enter into details as the House was not
in possession of materials for discussion ;. he would
content himself with merely remarking that the
speech of the Right Honourable Gentleman showed that
an inquiry was demanded. not only for the sake
of the public, but that it would be unjust to the
holders of the bills if it were refused ; con-
sidering, moreover that those frauds had been
committed by persons in the employment of the Go-
vernment. He had now but to notice the amount
of interest charged on those Bills. It would
appear that the interest charged by the lenders
was no more than according to the money
rate at the time the advance was made ; and he
would remind the House, that the great corpora-
tion of the Bank of England, four times a year,
advertised to lend money, for a limited pe-
period, at five per cent. on Exchequer
bills. .The petitioners should not be blamed for doing
what the Bank of England did ; and if they had in any
instance taken higher interest 'than five per cent., he
would remind the House that they had one
so under the sanction of the. Legislature, which had re-
laxed the usury laws for the benefit of trade.—(Cheers.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured
the House, in explanation, that the condemnatory re-
marks lie had made referred to certain persons of whom
lie had received information ; but he never meant
that a whole body of merchants were guilty of
participating in the fraud.'—(Hear, hear.) He should be
very sorry if such an imputation should be attributed to
hint when he meant quite otherwise.—(Hear.)
Mr. LEADER had one or two observations to make
on what had been said by the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer and the Hon. Gentleman. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman forgot that there were two questions of careless-
ness, one on the part of the holders of the Exchequer
bills, another on the part of the Exehequer bill-office.
He would admit to the Hon. Member for Surrey, that
many such as he represented had claims for compensa-
tion ; but he (Mr. L.) had the authority of a banker, a
Member of that House, for stating that, long before the
discovery of the fraud took place, there had been rumours
in the City that something was wrong in the Exchequer
bills. He had told him (Mr. Leader) that he himself