The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-05 00:00:00

mooted by the Hon. Member for Finsbury. That Hon. Gen-
tleman said that the Right Hon. Gentleman ought to take an
opportunity of reducing the duties on agricultural productions,
and not throw the whole weight on the manufacturing interest.
The lion. Gentleman might. find it snit his purpose to say that
the whole weight was thrown on the manufacturing interest;
but the country would not heed such statements. In the ar-
ticle of.aheat, the difference in the lowering of duty according
to the proposed scale from that of the existing one, amounted
to fifty per cent. He (Mr. Wortley) would be glad to see
anything like relief extended to those persons deriving incomes
from tradei and professions.--( Hear, hear.) They had a fair
claim for relief being extended to them iu such a manner as
that the other classes should not be seriously damaged, and
he trusted the Right Hon. Baronet would exercise all his inge-
nuity, and adopt any practical suggestion that might be
afforded to him for effecting such relief. At the same time
he (Mr. Wortley) could not, without expressing his dissent,
allow any Hon. Gentleman to say that tl.ey were subjected to
hardships because they had not influence on the Ministerial
side of the House.

Mr. HOPE JOHNSTONE, who spoke in a tone scarcely
audible, was understood to say, that the agricultural interest
had no desire to escape from their fair share of the burden of

,theincome tax.

Sir R. PEEL said he hoped the House would bear in mind
the speeches made on the subject of the tariff thia evening. An
Honourable Gentleman had observed that there were ru-

mours afloat as to his (Sir R. Peel's) motives for assuming
the profits of the farmer to be at one half the rent—
that he was supposed to have so assumed, for the pur-
pose of conciliating the agricultural interest. Another
Honourable Gentleman ' said that he ( Sir Robert Peel)
was guilty of the utmost injustice in assuming the profits to be
equal to one-half the rent : that in Scotland such an estimate
would be most unjust. He (Sir R. Peel) only threw out this
as a strong proof that her Majesty's Government had attempted
to do justice to all parties. He could assure the House that
their great support, their hope of success throughout the.pre-
sent arrangement was, that they had not attempted to conciliate
any political support ; but that they had attempted to do justice
between the great producing and consuming interests of the
country. Their reliance for success was, that on the con-
sciousness that they were acting for what they believed to be
just to all parties. He (Sir R. Peel) was much relieved by the
speech of the Hon. Gentleman, for the general tenor of the
communications which he had received in the course of
the day was, that the whole of his proposed financial and com-
mercial measures were intended altogether for the benefit of the

commercial and manufacturing interests. It was with some
satisfaction he heard the Honourable Gentleman state that,
so far as corn was concerned, there was no reduction whatever,

and that with respect to cattle the ageiculturists were under a
great delusion. The speech of the Hon. Gentleman was, as
he had said before, so different from the communications
which he (Sir Robert Peel) had received in the course
of the day, that he owed him some acknowledgment for
relieving him of the effect which the tenor of those
communications naturally produced. The lion. Gentleman
divet on the gross unfairness and favour shown to the agri-
cultural as compared with the manufacturing interest, de-
manding that the agricultnral interest should be subjected to
exactly the same scrutiny as the trading interest. While the
Hon. Gentleman was so speaking, he (Sir R. Peel) held in
his hand a statement which had been submitted -to the
Government on the part of the farmers. That document stated
that the farmers had never, except on one or two favourable
years, had profit on their capital nearly equal to one-half their
rent. So far from having any return fur their labour, that they
did not obtain even interest on their capital, and they concluded
by stating that they would not object to an income tax, and that
they were willing to bear a fair proportion of the neces-
sary burden of such a tat ; that all they desired was
that they would not be dealt with in an arbitrary man-
ner, different from that applied to all other branches. He
(Sir R. Peel) happened to be reading that statement when the
Hon. Gentleman was arguing that great injustice was done to
the manufacturing interest in the proposed plan. The farmers
formerly paid a proportion equivalent to three-fourths of thqir
rent ; he now reduced it to one-half, and he believed that
reduction perfectly just.—(Hear.) With respect. to Scot-
land, he was ready to admit, that there were circum-
stances which would require some modification of the mea •
sure, but it would be found that in the Act of 1806, which
is the basis of the proposed measure, provision was made for
such modifications. All he could state was that he wished to
put the Scotch farmer on an equal footing with the English
farmer. As he had said in the course of the evening he had
found throughout the country generally. a strong sense of the
necessity of some vigorous exertion being uncle in the present
posture of affairs. He found also a great desire to mairtain
the public credit, which induced all parties with great cheer-
fulness to submit to the proposed measure. Among the
agricultural classes he found a great desire to bear their share
of the burden, and he was perfectly certain that the prevalence
of that feeling would insure success in this attempt to equalise
the expenditure and income of the country. At the same time
he must say, that concurrently with that general acquiescence
there was, on the part of every interest which
would be affected, an universal desire to remonstrate.
All that he could say for himself and colleagues was, that
they had endeavoured not to consult interests, but to do jus-
tice.—( Hear, hear.) It had been said by Gentlemen oppo-
site that the duration of the tax was to be limited for three
years, but that still it was to be reserved to Parliament to con-
tinue the impost as long as the exigencies of the country
might require it. But surely those Gentlemen knew that the
limitation to three. years gave the country an opportunity of
expressing its opinions in the meanwhile, and of preventing
its re-enactment. But he was confident that the neces-
sity for the tax would terminate before the period upon which
he had fixed. He thought there would be an increased tempta-
tion by the reduction of duties on foreign produce, for the
holders of fixed property to remain at home.—( Hear, hear. )
He thought there would be a reduction of the expenses of
living which would, in a great measure, compensate those upon
whom a tax upon income would fall. Tne present circum-
stances of the country required a vigorous exertion. He
thought that in proposing a tee of three per cent. ho was not
establishing a precedent for tire imposition of a tax on property
in rinse of peace.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL entirely agreed with the
Right Honourable Baronet, that it would be im-
politic to impair the efficiency of these resources to which
the Government might have recourse in time of war. But he
thought that the mode in which the Right Hon. Baronet pro-
posed in the present state of the .country was very injurious,
and calculated upon mistaken grounds. With respect to the
change in the tariff as regarded Scotland, he thought that more
consideration was necessary, and that a longer time should be
given before such an alteration was made. It seemed to
him rather extraordinary that when appeals were made
a few months ago to the agricultural interest, there was so
much reserve amongst those who declared themselves to be the
farmers' special friends, as to the changes which they intended
to propose.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He did not apprehend
any great danger or loss to the farmers from the proposed
change; but he thought that the formers, although not gene-
rally accused of very great readiness of apprehension, would not
have lent their voices so willingly to the Gentlemen who con-
templated the changes now under the consideration of
the House.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) They followed
the front rank of their own army, which turned round and
fired upon them.—(Cheers cud laughter.) For his part
he should certainly persist in moving an amendment on
bringing up the Report. He would, however, seriously recom-
mend the farmers, and the landed interest generally, to consi-
eider, whether heist.° the Corn Bill was proceeded with fur-
ther, it would not be for their interest that the duty on the im-
portation of foreign corn should be reduced so as to be more in
conformity with the general principle of the tariff. If in the course
of the next year it should be thought advisable to reduce the
duties upon sugar, then corn, and corn alone, would be an
anomaly.—( Cheers.) Now it was impossble that corn could
long stand in that manner alone; and he put it seriously to
the Government to consider whether it would not be better,
instead of keeping the whole landed and farming interest in a
state of agitation on the subject, to adopt at once the same
principles in regard to corn that they had adopted in
relation to other articles, so as at once to make a fair
and final settlement of the question —(" Hear," and cheers )
and in that way to hasten the object which the Right Hon.
13e-onet said he had in view, namely, the reducing the cost
of living in this country. He was persuaded that such a
course of proceeding would be ultimately for the benefit of the
landed interest themselves, and that it would prevent those ma-
nufacturers who might now with justice complain that they
were exposed to the competition of foreigners living on cheap
corn, while they themselves were forced to live upon the dear-
priced corn of this country.—(Cheers.)
Mr. GREENE said, that before leaving the Chair he wished
to offer a few words in explanation of his conduct. When the
Hon. Member for Ipswich had risen to order, he (Mr. Greene)
had supposed that the Hon. Member had intended to advert to
something which had fallen from the Hon. Member for Man-
chester who had just sat down, and it was only on that account
that he had thought it his duty to check the Honourable
Member. lie (Mr. Greene) had little thought that
the Honourable Member had risen for the purpose of
alluding to his (Mr. Greene's) conduct in relation to what
had occurred during the preceding part of the evening. He
(Mr. Greene) was the last person in the world to wish to in-
terrupt Hon. Members who were desirous of observing upon his
conduct ; on the contrary, he was thankful to Hon. Members for
observing, whether in public or in private, on his conduct in the
Chair, for, he could assure the Committee that he was only
anxious faithfully to discharge his duty. It was his con-
scientious belief that he had put the question fairly and dis-
tinctly—(Ministerial cheers)—and he could assure the Com-
mittee, that nothing could be more painful to his feelings, than
to have it supposed that any conduct of his had been such as
to prevent any opinion from being expressed, either by the
Committee or by any Hon. Member.—(Cheers.)
Mr. W. WILLIAMS had understood the Hon. Gentleman
to express his willingness to put the first resolution again, if
such should be the desire of the House.—( Laughter, and cries
of " No, no," from the Ministerial benches.) it had been his
intention to have voted against the first resolution. As, how.
ever, that resolution had been agreed to, in consequence of
which all the property of the country, except landed property,
was to be subjected to an income tax, and as the only effect of
negativing the second resolution would be unjustly to exempt
landed property from the burden to which every other spe-
cies of property was subjected, he should not, under the cir-
cumstances, oppose the second resolution. He regretted the
error which had taken place, and thought, whenever an error
occurred in the proceedings, the House ought to have an op.
portueity of rectifying it.
The second resolution, imposing a duty of 3d. in every 20s.
on the profit derived from the cultivatioa of land, was then
agreed to.
The third resolution, for making the stamp and legacy du-
ties payable in Ireland, equal to the stamp and legacy duties
payable in deeds, and property of a similar nature in Great
ritain, was then put and agreed to without a division.
The House then resumed, and the report was ordered to be
brought up on Thursday.
Lord J. RUSSELL hoped if the Report were to be brought
up on Thursday, that the discussion would be commenced at
an early hour. Ile wished to know if the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had madeany arrangement with those Gentlemen who had
notices on the paper for that day?
Sir R. PEEL said the only notice that he was aware of was
the notice of the Hon. Member for Greenock ; and as that
Hon. Gentleman's motion could not be conveniently discussed
in the absence of the Lord Advocate, who was at present un-
able to attend to his duties in the House, in consequence of
illness, he trusted the Report might be brought up at an early
hour.
Mr. T. DUICCONIBE had a notice on the paper for Thurs-
day, of which he had given notice in the early part of the even-
ing. It was for a suspension of the Standing Orders preventing
the presentation of any petition in relation to a tax which
had been proposed in a Committee of Ways and Means.
As that motion had some relation to the present subject, and
as it would not take long to discuss, he certainly did not feel
inclined to give way. Had it been on a matter not in relation
to the subject, lie weuld not have hesitated to give way at once.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that the Hon. Gentleman had
a perfect right to take precedence on Thursday, if he desired it.
Mr. WALLACE would not certainly press for the presence
of the Lord Advocate if he were unwell, sooner than was
quite convenient to himself; but he (Mr. W.) believed that
the Home Secretary had a great deal more to do with the
question which he (Mr. W.) had to bring forward than the
Lord Advocate. He (Mr. W.) should not be long about
what he had to say—indeed, it was almost matter of indifference
to him whether his motion were acceded to or not, as he should
make use of it either way. He did pot, however, imagine that
the House would be detained by the discussion.
Sir R. PEEL would not bring on the question on Thursday
at a late hour in the evening, and if he should be prevented
proceeding on Thursday, he would fix on Friday for the bring-
ing up the Report.