The Sun.
London, England, 1820-07-11 00:00:00

;t, Counsel shoed be heard on both sides, and
:witnesses examined, previous to the second read-
big of the Bill., His Lordship previously observed,
that if the day proposed was inconvenient to the
Queen, he trusted her Majesty's Counsel would
make application without delay for further
time.
The Earl GREY--My Lords, agreeing that.
every
_consideration arising out of this case re-
quires that it should be 'proceeded hi with the
,-least possible- delay,. it appeareto, me thkt-this
object would be .much more effectually answered,
by communicating to the Q.uten the substance of
the charges againsther-Majesty, anti a list of the
witnesses:who -are to be ekarnined 'in -support of
those charges ;' a proceeding alsc; which, .in my
mind, the'substantial justice of'the case requires.
But with regard • to the course proposed to be
adopted, if what I haVe suggested is not agreed
'to,,it*.rnust be 'evident that when the witnesses
-for • the -accusation" have been examined, the
Counsel for the accused olcourse, require
time to answer the ease for the accusation, and
thus a new delay, and perhaps a most inconveni-
• ent ono, will Whilst; if a list of the wit-
nesses for the accusation is, in some way or'other,
communicated to the Queen, her Majesty's Law
Advisers may be prepared to answer the case for
the accusation, as Soon as than case•is concluded,
and thus the proceedings may go on without in-
terruption, and with the least possible delay.
• The Earl of Livmtroor,,---I. do not mean now,
my -Lords, to go into the discussion' of the point
suggested by the Noble Earl, respecting the
communication of a list of- the witnesses for the,
accusation to the' Queen, but 'if that point* is ar-
gued, -I shall be prepared- to slew, that to do
what the Noble Earl suggests would be establish-
ing a most inconvenient precedent ; and I have
no doubt, I .shall be able to satisfy your Lord-
ships, that these are, a number of circumstances
- which render such a communication utterly inex-
pedient, and cont'ra.r ran the essential forms of
this Rouse. -Certainly if I.am to choose between
giving a list of the, witnesses, to the Queen, and
going on with the: proceeding without the least
delay on the-one han-4, .and on the other, refus-
ing to communicate sticli'll?t,.atid allowing, after
the case has been gone-throngl;fOr the accusation,
whatever further delay inaY,-;be required for the
defence, I shall, without ;hesitation, prefer:the,
• latter course.-:, _
Lord ROLLAND-r-jt appears to me, my Lords,
that according to "the usages and the Standing
Orders of thiS House, not- merely of
nesses, but that copies df all the depositions
contained in the Bag ought to be Communicated
to-the- -Queen's Counsel. His Lordship moved
the- reading of a Standing,.oj.deri.-• dated the 3d
April,. 1624,. respecting die" communication of
depositions to persons- accused in. that House, and
referred -to the proceedings in— the IMolise of
Lords- at that period-against the Lord TreaSurer
Middlesex, for the•purpose of she-wing that
positions taken before a Secret Cornniittee Were
communicated to the accused -; there was, bow-
ever,-he admitted, some doubt :to the-date Of
the Standing Order which made a•Material -dif-
ference-aS to its audio-1-11y. Ills Lordship pro-
•Ceeded to- argue, that by' all the analogies of
legal- proceedings the depositions" taken before
the -Secret
.Committee ought to be communicated
'to -the Queen's Counsel' (as- he sit-pposed they
must be also to the -Attorney-General); or at
any rate they ought to be communicated to the
Jtidges who attended, it being-well-known that
in all criminal trials in the 'Courts beloW the
Judges had the depositions taken before the
-Magistrate who- committed the party accused
communicated to them, by which means they
were enabled to detect any contradiction between
the evidence given by witnesses on the trial and
the depositions by the same witnesses before the
committing Magistrate. This seemed to be the
course also' Which the justice of the case re-

quired.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL declined arguing the
question at the present moment, observing, that
the proper course would be to give notice of a
motion upon the subject, when it would come re-
gularly under discussion. His Lordship referred
to the case of Bishop Atterbury, in the Jour-
nals; for the purpose of sheaving that the appli-
cation of that Prelate for copies of the docu-
ments 'which had been given in evidence against
him before a Secret Committee was refused.
With regard to the depositions in the present
case, the communication of copies of them was
not of that importance that the Noble Lords
seemed to think; the whole' of the evidence in
this case must necessarily be real, and subject to
examination, 'to cross-examination, and to re..-
examination, as in other cases where real evi-
dence was examined.
Lord HOLLAND admitted that the Noble Earl
had shaped his course in a considerahle degree
according to precedent, but still contended that
the substantial justice of this cise required that
copies of the depositions should be communicated
as he had before suggested.
Lord I'I,LLENBOROUGII considered the Nob'e
Lord as inconsistent in the opinion- he now ex-
pressed with his former sentiments, as he would
now make the whole House acquainted with the
contents of the Green Bag, although previously
the Noble Lord considered that the Lords who
formed the Secret Committee would be, by the
bias their minds acquired through becoming ac-
quainted with the evidence, incapacitated 'from
forming a right judgment in any judicial investi-
gation of the case. It should be-recollected that
their Lordships were invested with two charac-
ters, that of hereditary Councillors of the Crown
and of Judges in Parliament, and it was impossi-
ble to conceive that'the Constitution would have
placed them in a situation in whith their giving
advice to the Crown, which they could scarcely
refuse when called upon for it, should incapaci-
tate them from acting as Judges in Parliament.
Lord HOLLAND defended himself from the
charge of inconsistency, observing, that the Noble
Lord had entirely misunderstood him, he (Lord
Holland) never having stated any wish that the
documents alluded to' should be communicated to
all their Lordships; all his object was, that sub-