Star.
London, England, 1830-03-27 00:00:00

Mr. ROBINSON said there would be no difficulty in paying off
the dissentients, and it might be inconvenient to be more explicit
at present.
Lord ALTHORP said he thought the proposal a fair one, and
beneficial to the public; for it was as good to reduce the interest of
the debt as to pay it off. His object in rising was to make a few
observations on terminable annuities. It appeared to him that it
would be desirable to convert, as much as possible, the perpetual
into terminable annuities. This, he understood, had already been
done to the amount of 2,500,000/. but he conceived it might be
further extended by the inducement of a bonus. The prospect of
extinguishing, after thirty years, a large portion of the debt, was
very desirable. The mode he should propose was that the com-
missioners should send notice to the Stock Exchange that the per.
son who converted the largest portion of the three per cents. into
terminable annuities would receive a bonus from the 500,000/. which
was quarterly at the disposal of the commissioners.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not
prepared to give an opinion on any new plan of conversion, but he
was perfectly ready to go into the consideration of any proposal
that might benefit the public. The annuity system before proposed
was more successful than he anticipated, for the funds were then
high, and it was then that holders were most disposed to secure
themselves against a reduction of capital.
In answer to an observation front Mr. CAPELL,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the dif.
ference of value between the new annuities and the long annuities
was certainly calculated to excite some surprise. It arose front this,
that the long annuities had one year more than the new to run,
which gave the former a greater value. At present, the price was
the same.
Mr MAIIERLY apirovcd of the plan. If it succeeded, it
would enable the government still further to reduce taxes, and re-
lieve the public distress.
The resolutions were agreed to, and the report ordered to be re-
ceived on Monday.

ADJOURNMENT Or THE HOUSE.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the
house, at its rising, adjourn to Monday.—Ordered.

COMMITTEE OE SUPPLY.—NAVY ESTIMATE%
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
the house resolved itself into a committee of supply.
Sir GEORGE CLERK moved that the sum of 57,5601. be
granted for the contingencies of the navy-office.
Mr. HUM li could not allow the vote to pass without stating. his
objections to the present amount of salaries, and to the difference
which prevailed in them. If those salaries were not to be reduced,
the country would in fact gain nothing by the new system of su-
perannuation. The offices of the navy, the navy pay, and the Ad-
miralty, coat the country jest 58,0001. in the year 1792—n0w they
were set down at the suns of 142,4)001. He thought a great many
of the clerks, and one of the secretaries of the Admiralty, might be
got rid of without much inconvenience.
The vote was then put and carried.
The next vote was for 137,4601.12 r. Bd. for the salaries and con-
tingent expenses of the yards at home.
Mr. HUME stated that the yards at home were upon a moat
extravagant scale. Private building yards cost only one-twelfth,
and the French dock yards cost only in the proportion of one-
' twentieth of the English yards. He wished to know whether future
reductions were to be made in the number of persons, or in the
salaries of those emplo/ed, or in both ?
j • Sir GEORGE CLERK said there was no intention of making
any deductions in the salaries of officers ; the savings would be ef-
. fected by a total dismissal of persons whose services were not wanted,
• such, for instance, as the clerk of the check, whose office had already
been abolished.
The Vote was then agreed to.
458,7201. were next voted to defray the wages of artificers and la-
bourers in our yards at home for the year 1830.
680,000!. were next voted to defray the expellees on timber and
other materials for the year 1830.
75,0001. were voted tor piloting and other contingencies.
06,4941. 15s. 2d. was voted to defray the expences of officers in
our foreign yards.
61,0381. was voted for the officers in our victualling yards.
On the motion that 64,0261. be granted for the expences of the
naval medical establishments,
Mr. HUME expressed his disappointment that the sale of the
buildings had not, as it was promised, been sufficient to defray the
expences of the repairs. He asked whether the recommendation of
the Finance Committee had been attended to, and the buildings
placed under the direction of the Board of Ordnante ?
Sir G. CLERK was not aware there had been any such recom.
mendation.
The Vote was agreed to.
Sir G. CLERK moved for a grant of the sum of 8451. for the
expences of the Royal Naval College and School for Naval Archi-
tecture.
Mr. HUME bad great pleasure in seconding this vote, which had
been thus reduced from above 3,0001. to 8451. He thought the
same means which had been employed to diminish the expences of
this establishment ought to be applied to the military schools.
The sum of 105,8341. was voted for the expenses of vessels in
ordinary, and the sum of 27,8701. for the hired packets.
The vote, for 854,0001. for half pay, was carried, and 298,0641.
granted for superannuation allowances, &c.

Mr. S fANLEY asked whether Admiral Shield, whose name was
now on the superannuation list, did not enjoy the pension now
given and a salary or retired pension or half-pay in addition to it ?
The sum cf 1,5001. was then voted as a bounty to chaplains.
On the motion for granting a sum of 270,0001. for Greenwich
out-pensioners,
Dlr. J. E. DENISON objected to the principle on which a ma.
rine who entered the service at 20 was enabled to retire after 21
years' service with a pension varying from 181. to 471. a-year. At
that age they were in their full strength, and he did not think they
ought to be allowed advantages so far superior to the other branches
of the service.
Sir G. COCKBURN said the subject was under consideration—
' The vote was agreed to.
Sir. G. CLERK then moved, that the sum of 174,584/. be
panted for superannuations and pensions in the civil department
et the navy.
Mr. 111ABERLY complained that there was not appended to the
list of names attached to this estimate, an account of causes of
superannuation, &c. by which these parties claimed to be entitled
to their pensions.
Sir R. HERON rose, pursuant to notice, to call the attention of
the committee to this vote, which included a grant of 900/. to two
gentlemen to whom that allowance, under the head of superannua-
tion, had been made upon the most unjustifiable grounds. These
gentlemen were Mr. Bathurst and Mr. Dundas ; and in this esti-
mate he perceived that the space allotted for a statement of their
services bad been left blank, which he supposed was their proper
distinction. (A laugh.) It was true that the amount of nine hun-
dred pounds was a small sum in the whole expenditure of the coun-
try ; but it sometimes happened that a sum so granted, though small
in amount, might be very large inprinciple. It was well known that the
fathers of these young gentlemen--(a laugh)—were Lord Bathurst
and Lord Melville, persons who held some of the highest offices in
the state. The latter of those noblemen now presided over the admi-
nistration of the navy, and held also the high office of keeper of the
privy seal in Scotland. Lord Bathurst was not only president of the
council, but also clerk of the crown. It would be remembered, too,
that the grandfathers of these gentlemen had been, one of them,
lord chancellor of England, and by virtue of that office had many
valuable things at his disposal; and the other was a sort of Vice-
roy in Scotland, in which place the emoluments he received eon
very large, and for services which were somewhat equivocal. Thus
gorged with the public money, he was surprised that the families
of these gentlemen should have condescended to accept for them
these miserable sums from the public, at a time of such genmal
distress. The honourable baronet then referred to the pay of Ad.
' mirals Bowen, Sir R. Barlow, and Sir T. Harvey, who was Captain
to the immortal Nelson, and contrasted them with these retired
allowances to men who had performed no public service. He
trusted that the house would by its vote of that night put an end
to these lavish abuses of the public funds. He should not trouble
the house further than by moving the reduction of the vote by the
by the amount of these pensions, the granting of which on the part
the parents of these gentlemen he could only denominate as being
paltry, and on the part of the ministers generally as a mockery of
the public distress. He moved the reduction of the vote by the sum
of 9001.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was anxious to
address the committee upon this subject, because the hon. baronet,
having imbibed very meows immolate as to the conduct of the
Treasury in the transudes, be was appesiteales that the same mon
might =tad to others. He should -see *law the hon. baronet
late the eatenessematta with which be bed aeumbered the ques-
t... (A langh.) He would repeat, estaimpous matter, because be
Ad not alai that in discussing such aquatics it was at all nom:
my to inquire what aims were held by the goadfathers of these
gentians. This diecarelen arose set Ot come ameitliwahls redtivi•••■
wnicahm is
bad hiss deemed expenses Moab, in die evaldielteme
esanalme two isa Width* dinatisne in elks whirr
the ndamiene wire mar,tlimia imam volusinfilime
were of essisegeetel toretimainceasei were beaushtimair the am-
Mewl= et the Lords et the Timmy by a letter addressed Ml
lama the. Adadielty la th m
e owl ta They bed SIM& tsar
yew in their ease,, a elearaseranee which. he eensidseed lharafer.
mate fee dila bad beencraitted to be mated In the (edam& The
mid r
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hem aimed is all twiner eases of a einem mama Tba Mem of
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vs liable ow, it they were unvilp 13 1:1=
at pl
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most applisable se dm prom wee that of the iseactims of the
members et the memo hinni. irldsh the mernissionniv
ported that die perms Was the siendene se be seism' had oboe-