The Sun.
London, England, 1842-05-10 00:00:00

IMPEItIA L PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 9.
THE MAGISTZZATES OF SUNDERLAND.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said he had lis-
tended with the greatest attention and respect to the
speech of the Noble Marquis, and he thought the Noble
Marquiss's desire must have been to have a run at her
Majesty's Government, and the latter part of it was cer-
tainly to arm an opposition to her Majesty's prero-
gative, which he ought not to have mixed up with
his statement of evidence.—(Hear, hear.) It seemed as
though,' after the reply the Noble Marquis had received
from the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, he
had armed himself and come down to that House for
a determined attack upon the humble individual who then
addressed them. He (the Marquis of Londonderry) hoped
before he sat down to be acquitted from the charge brought
against him by the Noble Marquis. To commence, he
must undoubtedly declare that he was a little hurt at the
want of courtesy of the Noble Marquis the other evening.
Had it been the intention of the Noble Marquis to hare
asked him (the Marquis of Londonderry) any question, he
certainly might have, given him notice, either in the
morning or even in the evening of that clay, in order
that he (the Marquis of Londonderry) might have been
prepared to answer the question. Ho could
not see why the Noble Marquis did not
read the conclusion of the communication he
had received—the postscript. In his (the Marquis of
Londonderry's) copy of the communication, the post-
cript ran " a copy of the resolutions has been forwarded
to Lord Normanby, as also Sir Hedworth
who is now in town.'
The Marquis of NORMANBY—That could not have
been addressed to me, because it refers to my letter.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said the Noble
Marquis must allow him to give his reasons why he did
not volunteer this statement on a former evening. Now
as Sir Hedworth Williamson was in town, he might have
called upon him (the Marquis of Normanby) to have
given bias some explanation. This subject had been dis-
cussed on the 30th of April, and he (the Marquis of
Londonderry) had received a letter from Sunderland on
the 23d. The letter stated that the appointments in
Sunderland were all Whigs, and there was still a ma-
jority of two in favour of the Whigs. In Gateshead
there were two Conservatives under the appointment of
the late Government, and now there were four. The
Ncble Marquis then read the names of the Magistrates
in Sunderland. From this it would appear that ten
were declared Whigs. He still believed his authority,
and was he therefore not justified, having received this
communication on the 23d April, in making the state-
ment he did ?

The Marquis of NORMANBY—WiII the Noble
Marquis state the name of his corresponpent ?
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY had no objection
if the House wished it.—(No, no.) Me, the Marquis
of Londonderry) had received a letter last night, in
which was this passage—" I have just learned that
Mr.. Spoore, who sent the information to your Lordship,
has peetended to be a Conservative."—(Loud laughter.)
If this was true it was very laughable.—(Roars of
laughter.) The letter went on to state that Mr. Spoore
had voted for the Whig candidates at the last election.
The meeting at which the resolutions were passed was
confined to Whig Magistrates, or the Conrervatives
were not admitted. The name of his (the Marquis of
Londonderry's) correspondent was Wright, a very re-
spectable solicitor, and one who knew more
of the country than any other man.—(Hear.)
The letter proceeded to state that both Spoore and
White were odd Conservatives. They had voted some-
times on that side—but had lately acted for
the most part as Whigs. The last allegation
of his, to which those gentleman replied was,
that they had rejected . applications for licenses
on party grounds. Now, he had never said that
the Magistrates were such fools as to refuse li-
censes avowedly on party grounds. What he did
say was as far as his recollection served him),

at they had used the power and influene
th oir office for tarty purposes ; and , tbs. °IT:,
per which put tl.e same interpretation ,as
oble Ma rquis put upon his language was tvt°
Morning Chronicle, which never treated him with
Candour. Those gentlemen met his allegation 14
stating that one of the five licenses granted. Itie
to a Conservative named White, and . snider
to a widow, who had no pol tical interest
But they did not say that she had no Mena°
who had political interest —(A laugh) -- nc'r
did they say one word about the petitions of the other
three persons who obtainedlicenses. Could theirLordShiP9
expect that he should comedown to the House,andenthe
strength of such a refutation, apologise to those gentieinerli
for having made erroneous-statements 7--(Hear, hear')
As the Noble Marquis had made so vigorous. an
attack upon him, he would give the whole -or ;the
information he had received, although he „wlie
very unwilling to take up the time of their LordsbiPs'
The Noble Marquis then read extracts from a letter,
which stated that at the last quarterly meeting of tbe
Council a Whig Quaker, named Hill, produced th
Morning Chronicle, and read the paragraph fro:a his
speech, on which the Noble Marquis had founded the
attack upon him. The Quaker then appealed to the
Council to vindicate the character of the Magistrates ;
but some Conservatives who were present said that the
report was incorrect, as it differed from all the other,.
papers, and, besides, that the Matter was one wit',
which the Council had nothing 'to do. The meeting a"
which the resolutions had been agreed to was, .he
tended, a •hole-and-a-corner meeting, at which the Con'
seryative Magistrates had not assisted. The Whig. 39;
gistrates were thus judges in their own cause ;
under those circumstances, he was not prepared to 'idol
that the former statements he had made were wrong'
No satisfactory justification had, in his opinion, bee
yet given by the Magistrates, of whose conduct he 11%
complained. He would leave the matter.for the preseo
to the judgment of their Lordships. If it should b
proved, hereafter, that he was in error, he would be
ready to make the fullest retractation. He. thought he
had some reason to complain of the manner in which
the Noble Marquis had brought the charge against
that evening. The Noble Marquis was perber
anxious - to see if he could not " floor" -hituj
hut he should be sorry to find that politic,'
differences put an end to these friendly relations
which had formerly subsisted between him and the /sTobl
Marquis. In the statements he had made rilatiYe
the Magistrates, he begged to say that he had no Wee;
tion of bringing forward any charges against the-N°b..l
Duke whom he had succeeded in the office .of TO;
Lieutenant of the county of Durham. All that he ba
to say in conclusion was, that he had never beeAnt'd
never would be a calumniator or a liar.
The Marquis of NORMANBY begged '.4iii-pnr)th'e
the Noble Marquis, that he had entirely reige(tpt,':,,
whole of the question, which was as to' the source.Of
information. The Noble Marquis had said' thiit tb
Magistrates had used their authority for party pii4o.;,_
in the granting and refusing of' licenses: He had li.ss
for the authority on which that statement was Metirei
The Noble Marquis gave no answer, and before he (ae
N.) would make any further observation;he wished to
him an opportunity of answering the question.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY thought lie 11!
given the fullest answer, and had shown that the 31agl.''
trates had done like other Magistrates of other politic:
and used their magisterial functions for party purPose
—(Hear, hear.) ble
The Marquis of NORMANBY said that the N°
be'
has used the very words he said were erron
ously attributed to him by the Morning Chroniclet:e
(Hear, hear.) But, on-the part of those gentlemen, 1,
indignantly denied the imputation: The Noble i‘laig'r
had no authority for his statements, and be (Iford
manby) heard his explanation,' although it .*:ited themerriment of their Lordships, with great pain, ,f 4 tr)
sake of the Noble 114ttquis
I
During the Lord-Lieutenancyef the Duhe 0t1P.05,1`, of
twenty Magistrates were appointed fa}r,'-o;4ll:wrilye
Durham, and of these there were eight TOrlCS,iore,4,
Whigs—the whole number of the 'Magistracy' being it-
he
of who 114 were Tories to 86 Whigs. That`was
enormous disproportion of which the Noble Mnrcl-r
complained, as being created bythe:Whig Governio,.%
—(Hear,' hear.) The Noble Marquis had- spoken th
highly respectable gentleman, as not connected wi
Sunderland ; but he could inform the Noble Marqu':`,;
that that gentleman was connected with the borotE
previously, as the Noble Marquis himself (Lord Lona,!',':
derry) was—namely, by marriage.---(Hear, and a lanbi,elie
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that they
e°o'o,
Marquis had a large property in the county, fin ,of
sidering the services he had rendered to the count',
Durham and the country, he (the Duke of I,Nrelli"gt°/,3
thought that the attack upon the Noble A.. 1
ar
upon the Government for having selected the
nty
Marquis for the office of Lord-Lieutenant of the eZ.,uoble
of Durham, and that attack founded on the ''' dd
Marquis's recent resignation of the office of Arabassa "r
to St. Petersburgh, he did think that it was not right or
fair, particularly on that occasion. He (the Dukeile
Wellington) would make one more observation. _.51
quite agreed with his Noble Friend (the Noble Mar(i1:1,01
that he was quite right in volunteering to come f°T k it
and state the subject of his letter. He did not thirouse
was Parliamentary to call upon Members of that 11 of
to explain anything that had -fallen from MeTbrers,:ise.
Parliament, either in the heat of debate, or o.6:act/a
If injustice had been done,"it was the corail'eanir„ent, if
for the person to come forward arta make par-
that injustice had been done by any-statement
liatnent ; but it was not the practice to ask feriPthet
planation of words spoken in the House of. Ler4,e'ought
explanation to be given at any moment. it was t".,,,ee
proper to be called for. He thought it right to,;"1
these few observations, and, in conclusion, he would •
that a more judicious appointment had not been 10
than that of the Noble Marquis.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 9.
RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTION OF ROAN
CATHOLICS.
Mr. HOWARD presented petitions from Romeo lie
tholics of Staffordshire, Westmoreland, Lancashire,
vonshire, and Huntingdon, for a better provision for 01,
spiritual instruction and aid of Roman Catholics in ga
workhouses and in the Indian army.
et
Mr. VILIIERS presented petitions from Da— fer/ ,e
Glasgow, and several other places, against all tax"
food.
BREACH OF PRIVILEGE. ed
Lord PALMERSTON (in continuation) 131'0,700
to say—He certainly could not vote for the vs°;",od
of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. He unders';ite
that motion to be for a Committee not to inquire liot
the extent to which bribery had taken place at the of
general elections, but to inquire into the existet
certain compromises which he alleged to have occunie•
at certain Election Committees recently. by which. s'
parties had consented to withdraw their petitiok,)
others to accept of the Chiltern Hundreds. He( 1)°,00
apprehended that the grounds upon which the Pcbef
ought to be called upon for that purpose, would be
that the compromises alleged to have been made,
iminst the established law, or were a breacil
the privileges of that House.—(Hear.) Thsto
Nal against the statute law he was not prepareiee•
s There was a clause in the Act constituting .1.,e
tion Committees, expressly enacting that any parties roe
stinting an election petition should be at liberty to °nee
draw the same at any time they might think PraDer
and it was manifest that nothing could be more rl,O
than that such power should be given, bee, 11 et
the trial of those petitions was conductead it
the expense of the parties retitioning ; an
would be an injustice if they were not perulloef
to withdraw from the trial of such petition whel)
they might think proper. The next point Witali
considered was, if such compromises were a breeilt
of the privileges of the House. As at Pre is
informed he was not aware that they were.aressto
Radical cheering.) If it were thought 6403 •
question was of sufficient importance to iserldo,
separate discussion, let the statement of the rd
Gentleman be assumed to be correct for the purpo,..„ se'd.
argument, and let the question be solemnly arr.,,gl
Let the case be put that A and B had been rettil"._od
to Parliament, and 'C and I) petition against th-oi
the charge of bribery. A and B are to toe
their Counsel that, though they themselves are gsudoes
yet their agents have abused their confidence, elnint
things affecting their suits. The parties pe611„0.40
naturally anxious to avoid the enormous
of a trial, and thinking there may be some uncerts re
in the case, are willing to enter into a c°ll2Eflit
raise, by. which the parties petitioned ssitbe
resign their seats. Another election takes place,ollloo
electors have again another opportunity of 5°1;400
a choice. He could see nothing incossmbet,
with the privileges of Parliament in all,. -sflef
If it were so, let the question be argued, and ii
."the
full consideration he should be of opinion that such 1"-ieei
case, he would vote accordingly. But these comPrlter*
which were said to have taken place, were no new t:1; ielo
It was not the first time they had been suspected I 00,
not the first time that they had happened. -L''° oe
could get up in his place and say that the existepo
such compromises had not been known bf„010
If neither a violation of the law nor 0, :10;
of the privileges of Parliament had taken roe
the inquiry could not lead to the punisho
of any of the, parties eoncerned. There licotel
perfectly legitimate ground on which this jel
mittee ought to be sought for, namely, t° ter
the ground-work for an Act f Parliament, sible'
dering such compromises for the future itnet
He did not require investigation to lead him to Oa SeSi
was prepared to take the statement of the rej
Member as the ground-work, and he was pre hi!
once to vote for the measure proposecl
Honourable Friend the Member for London 1;. tiiej/
He was prepared to vote for a law which, 1 itter
would, should not only give power to COisfar"
but make it imperative upon them to earl
cases of bribery. Those proceedings being ,0001
public good, they must be at the public elfole.;
for they would be well incurred if they efolv
the House to get at those mal-practices, and visit th!,c4
severity. For any legitimate purpose for which tlicrols
mittee could be appointed, he was prepared to e
the Hon. Member, and he would vote with anYOO,OO
Member who would introduce a measure, or he, td Pio
troduce it himself, that would give to Comsatb`;,,io a
extra power, or make it imperative on them to ,F;aet,o
the cireumstances of bribery; and he would also oigf
add the clause which was struck out of the 13,i11.4
Hon. Friend in the House of Lords, indernililiplif
nesses from any consequences arising from tliewor"
evidence. He might be told that this was all v jot
but they had no certainty such a measure wite,itt of
He would say to the Right Hon. Baronet oPrt-ipe'ves
for such a measure he should claim the,„ suse
the Government, not only in that -13°,
elsewhere ; and he was persuaded if sac"
sure were proposed by the Governn2o4