Star.
London, England, 1808-02-27 00:00:00

HOUSE OP COMMONS. .e
This day being the last day al the session for Meeting Private
Petitions, a great number were presented, and roginot to Com-
mittees.
Several report* were made from Election Centralises t—Por
&skull, in favour of the Petitioner, and against the sitting Mem-
ber--for Horsham, in favour of the Petitioner, P. Jones, Esq.
against Sir Santini: Romilly—for Great °thrift, in favour of Mr.
Loft, and against Mr. C. P. A. Pelham.
Mr. VANSITTART moved to discharge the Order respecting
the Returns of Peruvian Park imported for three years, and that
the return be for six.—Ordered.
Admiral HARVEY objected to the reception of this Petition,
stating, that he was informed some thousand names signed to the
Petition appeared to be all in the same hand-writing ; the petition
was accompanied by a detached roll of parchment.
The SPEAKER enquired whether the Member who presented
the Petition was aware of this fact, or whether he knew the

contrary?
Mr. DAVENPORT said, the Petition had been put into his
hand that morning, and that he was not aware of what the Hon.
Admiral had stated.—The petition was received without the de-
tached roil, and ordered to lie on the table.
PEACE.
Mr. DAVENPORT presented a Petition from the Labourers
and Journeymen of Stockport, in the County of Cheshire, stating
the distress which they suffered from the continuance of the war,
and the exclusion of our manufactures from the Continent. They
did not pretend to judge whether his Majesty's Ministers had
acted properly or not in not entering upon negociation—but they
prayed the House to take such measures as should seem meet to
them for affording relief.
Admiral HARVEY saw nothing objectionable in the Petition,
but there was a roll accompanying it with a vast number of names,
which appeared to be in the same hend•wiiting, and this he
thought ought to be rejected.—The roll was rejected at the sug-
gestion of the Speaker, on the ground, that it was not properly
connected with the Petition.—The Petition itself was ordered to
lie on the table.
---------

PETITIONS.
A Petition was presented from the Directors nf the West India
Dock Company, praying aid.—Referred to a Committee.
Mr. MELLISH presented a Petition from the Master Bakers,
complaining of some parts of the Acts relative to the regulation of
the Assize of Bread, &c. and praying an amendment.—Ordered

to lie en the table.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT presented a Petition from the Jour
neymen Bakers in and about London, praying for a Revision of
the Act prohibiting the baking of Bread, Puddings, Pies, or Tarts,
after one o'clock on Sunday, on the ground that it was ineffectual
for its purpose. The penalty being only 10s. for each offence, was
too small to enforce it; and they believed, that in very many in-
stances the law was transgressed, solely from a desire of gain—
and that the offences had of late very much increased.—Ordered

to lie on the table.
A Petition was presented from the Tanners of London, re-
specting the Regulations about Raw Hides.—Ordered to lie on
the table.
Dr. DUIGENAN presented a Petition relative to the Paving
of the Streets of Dublin.—Referred to a Committee.
Lord MILTON presented a Petition from the Clothworkers
of York, Wilts and Somerset, against tke employment of certain
Machinery in the Manufactories of Cloth. R.eferred to a Com-
mittee.

PILOTS BILL.
Mr. ROSE, pursuant to notice, moved for leave to bring in a
Bill for the better regulation of Pilots: he stated, that no provi-
sions existed for examining the qualifications of pilots, so that the
business was very generally taken up by ignorant fishermen, and
the necessary n sult was an annual lost of great numbers of ships
and their crews. Mr. Rose stated, that within a short period five
East Indiamen, with valuable cargoes on board, had been wrecked
between the South Foreland and the Isle of Wight, owing to the
want of proper pilots. The object of this Bill was to appoint
Commissioners under the direction of the Trinity-house, for
granting licences to persons properly qualified. This Bill should
not interfere with the powers already established at any of the
great maritime towns, nor entail upon the public any expence be-
yond the usual charges already paid.
Admiral HARVEY seconded the motion, and Alderman Cut-
xis and Mr. CALCRATT both spoke in support of it.
Alderman CURTIS said he should move to insert a clause for
remedying some detects in a Bill for regulating the Pilots of Deal
and Dover. Leave given, and a Committee appointed to prepare
and bring it in.

RUSSIAN PAPERS.
Mr. Secretary CANNING presented, pursuant to order, Copies
of Communications between Lord Howick and the Honourable
Mr. Stewart, late British Resident at the Court of St. Petersburgb.
--ordered to be printed.
- - - -

SIR HOME POPHAM.
Mr. DENT moved for a Copy of the Warrant for reimbursing
Captain Robinson his expences in the Admiralty Court, on a suit
respecting the ship l'Etrusco ; the other papers on this business
having been already ordered•
The SECRETARY at WAR presented Returns of the Effective
Force of the Regular and Militia Regiments of this Country.—Or-

dered to be printed.

SUGAR DRAWBACKS.
Mr. HUSKISSON moved for a Committee of the whole House
on Monday, upon this subject.—Ordered.
Mr. WINDHAM moved for an Account of the Pay, Clothing,
and other Expences of the Artillery Corps. for the last year.
COTTON DUTY AND EXPORTATION BILLS.
Mr. HUSKISSON presented a Bill for imposing a Duty on
Foreign Cotton exported ; and also another Bill, for prohibiting
the Exportation of Cotton, the Produce of British Colonies.—
Both were read a first time, and ordered for the second reading
on Monday.
Mr. HUSKISSON presented the Bill for prohibiting the Expor-
tation of Peruvian Bark.—On the question that it should be read
the first time,
Mr. Tierney, Mr. William Smith, and Mr. Wilberforce, de-
clared their decided opposition to the Bill; Mr. Huskisson, Sir
William Elford, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, shortly de-
fended it. •
Mr. SHERIDAN repeated his abhorrence of the measure, as
being cruel : he declared also that it was puerile and ineffectual
for its own purposes. A single ship freighted with bark, and fal-
ling into the enemy's hands, would more than supply the whole
Continent. It was not only warring against the sick in the ene-
my's camps and military hospitals, but with the sick in poor-houses
and private society. He had heard of one of our Commanders
bombarding a town, where some of the shells fell near an hospi-
tal; and an apology was made by the assailing General. This Bi!I,
he said, was nothing but a measure of war against sickness
and infirmity—against the wounded and the dying ; and he could
only express bis regret, that his Majesty's Ministers should find
that the only Allies left them on the Continent, were, agues, ty-
phus fevers, dysenteries, and putrid sore throats.
Mr. VANSITTART also thought the Bill a measure ineffec-
tual, and which would only excite odium against this country.
It was found by official returns, that the whole quantity of bark
annually consumed in this country was 60 tons; the average
quantity in Ireland, but two tons: that we imported more bark
during the year our troops were on the river La Plata than in any
other of the six years before. It was obvious also, that a single
sloop laden with bark would supply the whole Continent.
The House then divided on the question for reading the Bill the
first time—Ayes 14—Noes 40--Majority 34.
COPENHAGEN.
Mr. CANNING rose and said, that having under-
stood much clamour had been raised, respecting the
refusal of certain Papers relative to the transactions
at Copenhagen, and that much calumny and misre-
presentation had gone abroad, he was desirous, as
well in 'vindication and from a wish to clear his own
character, as to give every satisfaction to those who
thought themselves ill used, that those Papers should
be produced. He had, therefore, drawn up a motion
for the purpose, which he read, and which was after-
wards put from the Chair, to the following purport :
" For Copies or Extracts of any Dispatches received from his ,
Majesty's Minister at the Court of Copenhagen to the Secretary
of State here, in November or December, 1806, relative to any
Invasion or Violation of the Neutrality of Holstein.
" Also, Copies or Extracts of any Dispatches received from
the Secretary of State here, to the said Minister at the Court of
Copenhagen, in Dec. 1806, and Jan. 1807."
Lord FOLKSTONE expressed much surprise at
this motion. No reason appears offered for their pro-
duction, and it is little more than a fortnight since
every reason was offered by gentlemen on the Trea-

sury side of the House against their reduction.
he If
there be necessity for their appearance now,
was the necessity of refusing them when called for by
his aide of the House ? Now that the motion for their
production was submitted, he trusted, :that instead
of gsrbled extracts, the whole of the correspondence
would be furnished. It was only right that this
should be done, as justice and honour both called on
Ministers to rescue the character of Mr. Garlicke
from that degree of unpopularity with which it was
t;nged by their conduct in giving garbled extracts of
his letters to the House,
Mr. PONSONBY applauded the laudable feeling
which must have excited, on his own part, in the
Right Honourable Secretary, this eccentric motion.
But his credit for that fine feeling would have greatly
increased, if he had displayed as much feeling for
the wounded honour of others. At one time that Se-.
cretary reads extracts from these letters—then he re-
, fuses the originals--now he comes down to the House
calling for them himself. How was the House to
judge of the propriety or impropriety of refusing
or
granting them ? The Right Honourable Secretary
lad declared, that Denmark had entertained views
hostile to. this country, and he asserts, that the late
Ministers thought the same. If that be the case, then
he should produce all papers, and not extracts or
L partial letters, which would give any account of that
intention—and he should go back, not only beyond
the months of November and December, 1806, but
he should advance into 1807 ; and if he did not,
that motion which he had submitted, and which was
negatived by the Right Honourable Secretary and his
friends, shall be again submitted, to furnish them
another opportunity by a second negative, of spewing'
their inconsistency.
Mr. TIERNEY, notwithstanding repeated calls of
Question," rose, and with an unusual degree of
warmth declared, that never, in the whole course of
the Parliamentary history of the country, did any
Minister ever attempt such presumption. There was
a degree of self-consideration in his conduct that ex-
cited no small degree of alarm. It came to this, " I
did refuse the papers that I now call for ; but finding
myself much implicated, and more than I imagined;
it is necessary that I call for their production myself."
This was precisely the point. These papers were
moved for before. The ground on which they were
then called for were, first, because the public interest
required them ; the next was, because the character
of Lord Howick required them. But these motions
were both disregarded till that Gentleman discovered
that his own interest called for them, and then, lo ! he
calls for them himself ! He was tardy, it was true,
and he gave him credit for that tardiness. But how
was that to reconcile his conduct to his master ? Was
he to make his Sovereign wound the feelings of one
Secretary of State to gratify the feelings of another ?
But, waiving all this,he would be glad to know what
were the transactions of the last three weeks, that
I caused so great a change in the mind of the Secretary?
If that could not be accounted for, the House must
now feel the danger of raising a man too high, with-
out previously ascertaining. his compound qualities.
It must operate as a warning how those who so cre-
dulously fell into his ranks may be grievously disap-
pointed in their judgment of his real qualifications.
Even though he may return them his thanks by witty
sallies, bon mots, or seducing speeches, they would,
however, soon discover whether he deserved their
consideration, or that of his Sovereign--(l4ere there
was a very violent cry of Order ! from the:benches
of the Treasury.)—Mr. Tierney, after a short pause,
pnceeded. He protested that he was not aware of
having made any ill use of the Sovereign's name.—
(Again a cry from the same quarter of Chair! Chair 1)
The SPEAKER expressed an opinion that he
thought the Right Hon. Gentleman was exceeding
the due bounds of debates • and if such things, were
not stopped in time, it might lead debate into great
excesses.
Mr. TIERNEY, in continuation, answered, that
he was not yet conscious of having made too free or
ill a use of his Sovereign's name. The question be-
fore the House being an address to the King, it na-
turally occurred in free debate, that his Majesty's
name must be mentioned—and surely he did not mis-
apply it, when he appealed to the House whether
the conduct of his present Ministers was such as
would induce him to grant the prayer of that Ad-
dress ? It became a question of fidelity and persdhal
consideration between two persons, the late and pre-
sent servants of his Majesty. But the Gentlemen on
the other side of the House might triumph in the in-
terruption which their clamour had excited, as for the
present he must forbear saying more than he should
oppose the motion. The—
Here Mr. ADAM spoke for order. He desired,
that the Order of the Day of the Bth February should
be read. It was read accordingly by the clerk, from
whence it appeared, that a motion similar to the pre-
sent was negatived.
The SPEAKER then took it for granted, that the
Honourable and Learned Member (Mr. Adam) in-
ferred from thence, that a repetition of the same Mo-
tion was disorderly.
Mr. ADAM was about to reply, when the Chan-
cellor of the Ex4equer rose to Order, and Mr. Tier-
ney did the sai. The former Gentleman proceed-
ed. He observed, that the Right Hon. Gentleman
had complained of interruption, but the cause of that
interruption was himself, by haVing introduced the
name of the Sovereign, without 'anyvhecessiti, into,
the debate.
Mr. TIERNEY denied this, and Mr. W. Smith
supported the assertion of Mr. Tierney.
The CHANCELLOR of the 'EXCHEQUER
then stated, that he was bound to make the Youst
feel that the Chair was right. Here the Right Hon.
Gentleman recapitulated Mr. Tierney's expressions, I
to shew that the Chair and his friends were equally
correct in interrupting him. From this topics the
Right Hon. Gentleman entered into a systematic
vindication of the propriety of the Motion, convincing
the House, that, on the grounds of public necessity
and private interest, it was now their duty to enter-
tain the moticn.
Mr. WINDHAM observed, that the Gentlemen
on the other side seemed to feel very sore, and the at-
tempts at humour by the Right Honourable Gentle-
man (Mr. Perceval) on this occasion, reminded him
of children singing in the dark to keep up their spi-
rits. The observation of his Right Honourable
Friend had not been directed to oppose the production
of the papers, but merely to impress upon the House
the indignity with which they were treated by the

Right Honourable Secretary, who carried matt,
with so high a hand. He almost wished that n—,
vision could take place on the question, for then ii
would appear whether or not the House of Corny
would submit to the indignity attempted to be um
upon them, and make themselves obnoxious to the
charge of being a corps drilled to the obedience d
Right
any-Minister. Was it to be endured for a Mot/lett.
that papers were to be refused, when called for, to i 7a,
tify the character of a Noble Lord, late in office,4i
that the self same papers were to be granted, on tit
motion of his successor in the samesauation, and •
'defence of his own character ? Was notthe character
of his Noble Friend as valuable to him as that of
Right Honourable Gentleman was to himself
warned Gentlemen on the other side of the H
seelmedThperfectly consistent aHonourable
that they had got a very active commander, watt
seemed forward to lead them into every danger, •
which, to use a military phrase, their reputations wen
likelyhG isGentleman,
conduct,
mod
übacne4
hfwello
uro
wppere he seemed disposed to treat Me
however,
House with garbled papers, while formerly be tad,
given them merely garbled extracts. The only rah
plea on which the refusal' of the papers now'es me-'.
for could have been formerly defended WU, th a7O,
should rely on the discretion and judgment 0: 4:
ssers, as to what shall or shall not be communicate'
to the public ; but now we find that the paw „
question contain nothing, the publication of which-
could be detrimental to the public interest ; arid'
therefore the House could lever again put faith- is.
any arguments of this kind, which had been prayed-
by the confession of Ministers themselves to be ea,
founded.
Lord CA STLEREAGI I felt confident that the;
House, in all its determinations, would be sufficiently
regardful of its own character, and was very far hei
thinking that his Right Heat. Friend had in my re.
spect compromised its dignity. The fact was, that
when the papers in question had been moved forma
former occasion, no adequate grounds hadbeen ilea
for their production. They were called for, fertile'
purpose of rebutting a charge against a Noble Lord,'
which his Right Hon. Friend had never made, ad
therefore, the House had then to reason whatever fee
their production. He could not, however, help at
luding to that kind of opposition in which entheeee
on the other side indulged themselves. They seemed
to have adopted a species of tactics, in consequenced
which, time was to be occupied with any thing rather
than the business of the House (Hear! heart) and
whatever might be the agreement of both sides of use
House on any question, still they would find out some
point of attack, some ground of difference. This
night would shew to the House, and to the Country,
what the nature and spirit of their political Ns-arias*
were to be, and that two principal objects with th
Opposition seemed tobe, to delay and retard the pub
tic business, and personally to attack his Right Ho:
Friend, whose character, however, would support is
self in the eyes of the House and the Country, in spin
of all their efforts.—(Hear ! hear ! from the °ppm.
tion Benches.)
Mr. SHERIDAN certainly had expected that the
Right Hon. Secretary would have prefaced his mo
tion with some reasons for moving now for papers
which he had refused before. When he heard, how.
ever, the observations which had fallen from his No.
hle and Right Honourable Colleagues, between
whom he sat, he thought that his Right Honourable
Friend must have wished them to imitate his own u•
citurnity. • The Noble Lord had said, that we wee i
perpetually calling for all kinds of information, and,
in short, information that was perfectly obsolete—
Now, the fict vias, that this motion went to give us
the obsolete information, while we called for the more
recent dispatches of Mr. Garlicke, with regard to the
disposition of Denmark in the year 1807. The lio.
ble Lord had also charged Gentlemen on this side d
the House with indiscriminate opposition ; now that
were two words in the English language, oppose and
expose, • which had a great resemblance in sound, and
Which the Noble Lora seemed to have mistaken tic
one for the other, since his Right Honourable Fried
meant to expose the conduct of the Right Honour.
able Secretary, and not to oppose his motion. Inati
dition, however, to the papers now moved for, he was
anxious that the answer of Mr. Garlicke to the dio
patch of Lord Grey should also be laid before the
House. It was proper that justice should be done Si
Mr. Garlicke, whose sentiments and dispatches haw
been misrepresented • and with that view be should
now propose an amendment, by way of addition to
the present motion. The amendment was, that Mr
should be added these words—" together with the
substance and dates of ali information relative to the
state of preparation of the I)anish fleet, and as to tho
hostile confederacy between Denmark and Framer„ 11
communicated in the dispatches of Mr. Garlick i 3
the year 1807."
Mr. BANKS submitted to the Hoese, that di'
amendment was the same with a motion that had befn
negatived in the present Session. Upon which tug
Speaker observed, that it certainly was inconsittt,
with the rules of the House
ready negatived, in the same
been submitted before.
Mr. Secretary CANNINL
substantively fair, and proposed
be so altered as to come
House.
After a few words from
cordingly done by Mr. Sheridan,
to run in this form, oo together
all the dispatches of Mr.
temper, conduct, and views
years 1806 and 1807."
The motion being then r
Mr. Secretary CANNIN
postpone his answer to the
tions that had been made
to as late a period in the
men on the other side must, .
the distinct grounds on which
founded ; but now they want'
to one of a totally different
tsisich was solely for the k.
presentation, while the motion
ed to it had been already
totally different grounds.
oppose the production of
moved for, bn the grout,
he had formerly stated
House would neither '
their own honour b'

f
anywbta
lla
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uleeo
Il tare tmbg
yeofb;eiecpo
cctoit2sihttiosnnloiohhtereeleittcladoecivoe:
ternegroaysocrlelEilii,
gimeefsetsorotticpumretheitcnatetarystsa their
ad
bees
e
6WI shoul rather witlidr2
ieer important he might the
a I; ir oe i dpa
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country
vheae
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thebconanri e
suesisvctitnpr, e n.
pac that
ftal
csArharomas
eds(e)ocyhius
increased
vedoenthenrlinmduu(witeabn)
Vghimself from nusrepre
' which had been tacked
- fir. TIERNEY support✓
itiskises;tha.t the Right Ho
* jortictlio himself, to prod:
asar Ore foul imputatieu ti
rltbittbuntry.
'Mr. Secretary CANNII
tor words from Mr.
gedered to be cleared, whei
For the Amendment, 4C
An on the Orig
roes, 9--Majority, 131.
ARMY IS
Verhen the Gallery open,
s Committee on the motio
on the Army Estimates.
secretary said, on the sub
satisfactory to say, that tl
perior in strength and di
country, during the year
siderable addition had t
soenzth. It had the adv
Ot oMcers as last year, an
13ritish army to be placec
tion. The difference h:
regular increase of the inf
sanst men stronger than 1
the same situation, in po
last yeareand it was inte
He thought it necessary
House to the roylf wit
been reduced to 500, wh
isting force. It was knc
were employed in the
public service was perfo:
train, than it could pos
means. They were em
afferent barracks, and
sidered necessary to ret
sen.article he would c
draughts from them, tl
The General Staff rem;
I:;eisttai
creased in expense. S
should have a small ad
take a firmer establis
be taken for so laudab
was perhaps more net
tion. It was necessai
casionedducted. aTfdodrrnhietierovnl
since last year. The
ing Staff at home wit
formerly
ucal
crease had taken plat
nearly the same. A
owing to fining the
expences of
moved from it. The
There were also a d
ment. These were
General Fitzpat
Mr. Calcraft, the SI
srasmalnse
binson then entered
ing of the army, II
Mr. WINDHA
with which public
titularly on the m:
the consideration o
Army estimates lu
before the House.
upon future occasi
to follow him. I
waggon train, an
neas, and
tion had been mu,
to_ the saving of
not in
and commented 1
the operation of t
busters for the mi
A
ties for substitute
the
riutdeltoip omesmr
nouodt
farfpna
iieradwsodet
jtetli

6 ii. ....0.........,
ilsv'tihranec
it
jißoc
ani gt.
vindicate
Le same shape in w
louse to receive a POW ll' "`...tea, ....••• sivi. a..
bich it Ina
:NNING thought the woo nttAneadams.bilne
Lord CAST]
I proposed that its form shall
at the complaint
come within the rules of * •
Gentleman con
from Mr. ADAM, this iraS at'' must, that when
r. Sheridan, who altered it soli ' was in office the
all when they w
together with the substage te
F M. Garlicke, respecting 11° nourable Gentle
,
i views of Denmark, during*s
ply to the Righ
PP
the Noble Lord
then put in its amended fore" shouldht thought
h more
NNING NNING said, that he wished 0
to the various per
to °beet* House and the
made with relation to himse4 t'•
system pursued
the debate as possible. Gen*, i
last Session, th
Of the two gre
Le must, he thought, be aware et
on which the two motions nen '
ley wanted to tack their motiest•-• indeed. By ti
fferent principle from tbe alle7' to continue in
the purpose of repellingtinge' and of these, a
to raise 47,00(
the motion which they Hain tack' -
ready negatived by the
he shall k. than 37,000
ands. Still,
however, Transfer Bill,
til August ne
on of the additional ppers a°l 1
this numb(
(rounds of public erpedienclo°: '
t,f.
tfd ; and he trusted that : 1 _ had actually
Yr think comp .ronn force of abov
ly acce that they that
to his raotico, o',