The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-28 00:00:00

liqus,e upon the appointment of a Co•nmissi.in at.all in 1
ii..i.;"
.t ~iI rs t., instance. .
: •;13E1C.,"AL suggested to biS Hon. Friend (Mr.
.ii
°•• .
Vier) not' to proceed at. that late period with a
alluise.ef such : importance. He did not see the use of
~„14•::-PrOpoded.Commission. lt was quite new, anti he did
7', ,:i‘e what benefit would be procure dby it. He hoped
_ta'• .Right Hon. Hon. Baronet. would be prepared next session
Witli:4 lar',,e rime general measure on the subject.
;lir. 'I: DUN:O 13 BE said his Hon. Friend was press-
-1,11,.;;" this Bill :under great disadvantages. The Right
TA:Baronet. seemed so well to understand the bearings
ih 1,.11.is Bill, that he recommended his Hon. Friend to
'llti,it - deer tohita.--(Laughter.) Under the present
TYltetii a double inquiry was necessary. He therefore
ligped his. Hon Friend would not hastily abandon the
clause. -
a •
4,11 r, ROl.in_itCK did not object to the appointment of
k.olinni.' = • The b'ect was to get at the truth in the
bes, • amt. o j
at,- IPI possible. He thought that object would be best
i,,t`rc-d• by a judicial tribunal. Ile hoped his lion.
?(,ad.would.postpone the clause.
e• '`-red
ESCIQTT said his great objection to the Commis-
.4(4l
Was,
that when it obtained the evidence they could
ke
.Proceed indicially upon it.
After a few words,from Mr. liiimE and Mr. 110-WARD,
:dr. C. BULLER-said . that he thought he ought to
take the sense .of the. House upon the clause. If he
"1-Itecied in carrying it by only a - small majority, he
"Tught it would be useless to _proceed with the Bill.
-/, Sir R PEEL suggested that all the clauses of the
'bill from the 13th should be withdrawn, and that an-
,,t),ti ler Bill to satisfy the purposes of the remaining
ing''auses might be introduced next session.
lir. U. BULLER withdrew the clauses, and on the
Tiestion that clause 96 should .Stand part of the Bill, lie
64i,l that be thought -it of the highest importance to 1
the eiiieacy of. the Bill, and he was disposed to leave it
the House, on a division, to adoptor reject it.
I,'lle ATTORNEY,GENERAJ, objected to the elauge
7ereaking.in upon one ('t the 'most important principles
I:'lglish law, by making it compulsory upon witnesses
top criminate themselves. Why should there be a diffe-
e•llt rule in this cast; from that which existed in the case
1r treason,: misdew_ianour, and other crimes ?—(Flear,
%4 It appeared to him that the clause would intro-
llerii a new law entirely contrary t(S. the present rules or
d,`,,.,,„. -
I‘,,
•\tr. O'COYPELL. said that the great question
,
di., Whe'.ner. they would be at liberty to
'''''lra"-,' the crime in question, by compelling the party
C'er'n'.n'ti'te himself.
.Was it likely that bribery could
Clnuraged if every person concerned in it might
;4*,43hiniself ? Was not that a bonus to commit
tt - -.:y ? Was it not a shield thrown over the briber ?
Seemed to him perfectly plain, that the way to cheek
.wits to allow disclosure, and the *ay to encourage
P 44 to prevent disclosure. He thought that,- if they
ahfi. this clatise, - they would make. the Bill efficient,
11,-if not, .the Bill would be worthless.
':''r, PARKER suppOrted the clause.
e,:4.r.• ROEBUCK said, that if a clause of indemnity
drlr4 passed, the person would be prevented by the in-
-•titte from criminating himself.
It, •Lrird PALMERSTON thought that to allow a party
e4)(1 give evidence criminating himself was not entirel
,r4sistent with the ordinary course:of the law. They-
eyes
had recourse to the evidence of an accomplice, WllO
eyesequally criminal with the man against whom his
oilweriee was brought. He did not think the objections
the Attorney-General entitled to any weight.
„he SOLICITOR-GENERAL ‘..ett.il they all admitted
41.i4t bribery was a great crime, but it was not a eater
,0,,,tt1e than many others. Wltat was done by the clause? It
hi-,;;Pelled a.'person to titAiver a question tendingtocriminate
tesuself. While at the same time a clause was introduced
kajditr's prospective indemnity. Reference had been
kt,o '.O the case of an accomplice . who was admitted
t,l •e,ueen's evidence, but the Crown had no power
Ai • grant a pardon for future offences. In effect
4 6 indemnity clause said, " You may go down to
aernty or borough and bribe to any extent you please,
itin if von are afterwards examined before a Committee
l
i• 411alljno longer be a crime."—(hear, hear.) He
ildbe-
that a great deal had already been done by the
Oxeye passed last session towards suppressing bribery.
/07c_ Els now. seen that it was impossible to commit
•;a "'II: without investigation. In every case this session
th which a petition had been presented containing
•iitittrges of bribery; the party petitioned against had been
Iv •s,nte:st —Moor, hear.) He thought that circumstance
ui" have !.) great tendency to check bribery.
that 1..• AWLIONBY supported the clause, on the ground
• _... _ .

. .
4:'w4l'.out it the Bill;Vould be wholly inefficient.
HARDY said it was impossible t o detect bribery
I,e 0 `f:ait examining the parties themselves ; it could only
b bringing the paer and receiver before
tribunal appointed to investigate it.
SHEIL thought that all the objections of the So-
Tlfl
eicovr-Getieral might be removed by the introduction of
• words, to the effect that the answers given by the
lyttness
legs.should not subject higt to any further proceed-
ri%e.
jetr.telt,elle could not help thinking that if the clause
Litted, a clause introduced in the former Bill, but
l:l44"ther place, the present Bill would be de-
17of t‘s greatest benefit.
4e Committee then divided, when there appeared.
For the clause 39
Against it
Majority against the clause —4l
clause was consequently lost.
Un clause 27 being put,
.2-11 e SOLICITOR-GENERAL stated that he appre-
ed this clause had been decided by the division on
47 last clause, as it involved the same principle, and
L 4, t, therefore, be attended with the same results.
lr H. PEEL doubted greatly the policy of compelling
ijartY to criminate . himself. He thought that any
ltettneut to such an effect would only hold out u,
Ptation to perjury. Tho subject had been ably dis-
° d in an article in a late number of the Edinburgh
Er
(4) on the trial of Madarna Lafarge. It appeared that
etactice in France was, undercertain circumstances, to
ino the party accused ; but the writer of the article
he had, referred, showeg that that practice often
AY. led to a suppression of the truth.
„lr• C. BULLER said, that considering the opposition
p
tirinciple of the 27th .and 28th clauses, he should
?ose their withdrawal.
(lea tls• S. CRAWFORD would not consent to the with-
erit-,•`‘.41 of these clauses. He believed that that would
'"'ly upset the utility of the Bill.
le Committee then divided, when the numbers were,
For the clause 2B
Against it •
70
.
The
Majority against the clause .... —42
,Ahe clans() was therefore struck out.
Oommittee having resumed, clauses up to 31 were
•-tick JUL
u short discussion, clause 32 was agreed to, as
'er
• A° arse clauses up to 42.
some discussion clause 43 was agreed to.
then passed through Committee and the Report.
4'4.;1 received, and ordered to be reconsidered on Friday.
• ktIONERS,- &c., (LANCASTER AND WARWICK)
BILL—ADJOURNED DEBATE.
( .40)4 the Order of the Day for resuming the adjourned
,Itte, on the second reading of the Coroners, &c., (Lau-
'
u'''r) Bill being read,
ft short discussion took place, after which
de )•
'BOWRING moved. the adjournment of the
!'},c House
seconded the motion.
• 'T ie House divided, when there appeared,
For the adjournment of the debate ... 19
Against it 5l
Majority against the adjournment —32
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to
2ouitnittecl. on Wednesday next.
Parish Constables Bill was read a third time,
Passed.
444'11,, East India Bishos Bill was read a second time
~
7,srtiered to be committed on Friday.
'1- Ile Tobacco Regulations Bill went through Committee.
The Slave Trade Suppression Act went. through Com-
ee, a resolution- having been agreed to that the
tnalissiouers be empowered to divide a portion of the
°e eeds frontthe sale of slave ships amongst the captors.
41)e other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and
e 'louse adjourned at Half-past Two o'Clock.