The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-15 00:00:00

TUE SUN, -LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, EBRLTAR Y 1.5, 1842.

dismissed at the commencement of the address to the
House—l mean the distress that prevails in the country.
That that distress exists to a great extent—that it exists
in Leeds, Manchester, a great part of the cotton district,
and part of Scotland, is now by no person denied. It
was stated in the strongest terms by the Hon. Gentleman
who seconded the Address (Mr. Beckett). The Right
lion. Baronet states that he does not propose his present
Corn Bill as any remedy for that distress—(Hear, hear)
—nor does he think the Corn-laws, as they at present ex-
ist, are at all answerable for that distress. Now, Sir, I
should not say they were the cause of the whole of this
distress, but they tend very considerably to aggravate
it ; and I think that a great relaxation or your Corn-
laws would tend greatly, though not, perhaps, im-
mediately, to mitigate that distress.—(Hear, hear.)
What is it has been said by persons conversant with
the cotton trade in Manchester, in a circular which
they addressed to the wholesale houses in London,—that
while the sale of cotton exported, profitably or not, bas
increased during the ltrit year, the sale of these goods
for domestic uses had decreased at the rate of 3,000
bales per week. They therefore conclude—and the con-
clusion is a natural one, and borne out by all the other
evidence on the subject—that the want of means
in the labouring classes to purchase clothing and other
articles as well as food, has been the cause of the di-
minished consumption—that a much greater part of
the earnings of the labouring classes than hitherto have
during the last two or three years gone to the pur-
chase of bread. Now, this statement is supported by .all
those who have communicated with the labouring
portions of the community, and by their
own statements in various parts of the coun-
try. I myself presented a petition to-night, which
stated that the petitioners, though sometimes able to
procure some bread, were unable to consume sugar at
nil ; and, with respect to other articles, that the coa-
sumption of them was greatly diminished. Well, then,
if you had a free admission of foreign corn, one of the
consequences would be that the numerous classes
able to purchase food at a cheaper rate
would be enabled to consume manufactures ; and an-
other consequence would be that the manufacturers
would find a better market for their goods, and that they
would send these goods in exchange for the goods
sent to this country. Therefore, whilst I do
not say that the whole of the distress" is caused by the
Corn-laws, or would be totally removed by the repeal of
those laws, Ido say that they tend to aggravate the
distress, and that you would mitigate that distress
by a relaxation of those laws.—(Hear, and cheers.)
The Right lion. Gentleman supposes us to be in a posi-
tion similar to what has occurred at other
times in manufacturing districts when distress was,
as he thinks, occasioned partly by over-production, and
partly by other causes. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man supposes that over-production, the operation of
joint-stock banks, and some other causes, contributed
in different degrees, and that all the remedy is in the
reduction of the excess, and. a return to the
former state of things, and the former amount of pro-
duction. Now that is not the view which I take
of the present state of things. Although it may
be that the production of goods, has been somewhat in
excess, yet if that had been the cause of the distress, the
distress would have passed away, and the evil woulcthave
cured itself.—Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Baronet
thinks that part of the evil is in the excessive building
of houses in the manufacturing towns, and the conse-
quent increase of the population ; and that another
part is in the improvement of machinery. Sir, I cannot
say whether the first may be in some part a cause of dis-
tress ; but I say that with regard to machinery,
the whole history of our manufactures directly contradicts
his opinion.—(Hear.) Wherever improvements have
taken place in machinery, and means have been formed of
lessening the amount of human labour necessary
tO produce an article, new markets have been
created or increased—(Hear, hear)—and thus the
whole number of persons employed has been
increased at the. same time and not diminished.—
(Hear, hear.) And what is the case of those
great towns, such as Manchester, Leeds, Mac-
clesfield, and Brmingham ?—(Hear, hear.) They
have increased year after year, as the ingenuity of
our cduntrymen from time to time adds improvement
to machinery. (Hear, hear, hear.) If the im-
provement of machinery decreased employment, the
case would have been the other way, and population would
have decreased in those towns.—(Hear, hear.)

Sir R. PEEL made some observations which were not
heard in the gallery.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Sir, I certainly did think
the Right Hon. Baronet gave in, in some degree, to the
opinion that machinery decreases employment. It is
an opinion which has been stated by several who
support his views of this question, and I think
it is very dangerous.—(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") I
thought that he mentioned the improvement of
machinery as amongst the causes of the distress.
But I believe that machinery would increase still
more, and go on- increasing, if you did but en-
courage freedom instead of imposing new restrictions.
A great portion of the people think that some relief may
be obtained by repealing those laws. If you cannot re-
peal them totally, as the great majority of the petitioners
to this House against the Corn-laws deMand, I do
advise you to make some material advance—(Hear, •
hear)—and show, that you are willing to meet
their wishes, as far as is consistent with other
interests.—(Hear, hear.) I advise you to make some
material advance that will show you have sympathy
with the sufferings of the people.—(llear, hear.)
But the present proposition does nothing. It merely
removes, as is said, nominal high duties, which can
never be levied, and only excite unnecessary odium.
Sir, I agree to that description, I think it is made appli-
cable to the measure of the Government. I agree, Sir,
that it is perfectly impossible to hope that any. good, or that
any alleviation whatever of the general distress which
prevails in the country can arise from that measure,
which is only made to look a little better. than the old
measure—(Cheers)—a measure which erpetuates the
vicious principles already existing—forbids any improve-
ment—encourages speculation—and prevents your com-
merce with the north of Europe—the Black Sea and
the United States. Such a measure, Sir, will do no-
thin to relieve the distress of this country.—(Hear.)
and I say that that description is strictly applicable to
the measure proposed by the Government. Whatever you
do, I advise you not to agree to such a measure as that.
If you think that the Corn-laws are founded on sound
principles—that they tend to promote the interests of
the country, do not mind the sinister evils they may
cause • but if you do make a change, do so for some pur-
pose; not innovate without you innovate for some
good.—(Cheers.) Lord Bacon said that the froward
retention of custom was sometimes as bad as
innovation--:-but Lord Bacon never dreamed that there
might be a measure of this kind proposed—a measure
which would have all the evils of " froward retention
of custom," and yet contain within it all the mischiefs
or evils of innovation.—(Hear, hear.) A measure which
does not improve your commerce ; and, therefore, cannot
alleviate the existing state of distress—a measure which
confines your trade, and which was proposed by the
Government, having first excited hopes for a long period
—hopes which when apparently on the point
of being attained, a measure is proposed in
reality standing upon the very same principles
and producing similar results as those of the pre-
sent law.—( Hear, hear.) • • Such a measure, Sir,
I consider is that now proposed. I cannot think.
you will legislate on this question to any purpose,
unless you in the first place reject the measure now pro-
posed.—(Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) If you reject
that, you may hereafter consider to what extent
you may set free your trade in matters of food,
you may hereafter consider how far you will concede
to the wishes of the people—it will be open to you to take
every view that may be proposed to you to consider. You
may consider the agricultural interests and the quantity
of land brought into cultivation. You may also con-
shier the burthens which affect agriculture; and I wish to
say here, Sir, that if there be any odium in advocating
the imposition of a duty—from that • odium I do not
wish in the slightest degree to shrink.—(Hear, hear.)
If you adopt the system now proposed, though I do not
believe that in the'present civilised state of the people of
England, you will have such tumults and outrages
as
have taken place in former centuries, yet I apprehend that
you will produce growing d;seontent in the public mind.
Act, therefore, so that it shall be said that you have
legislated on well considered views, and for the benefit
or the whole community. But I desire now to impress
the ti...et upon you, that all commercial men and all in-
different spectators have Unanimously condemned the
sliding-settle as the worst basis of legislation
with respect to provisions, and that it .is perfectly well
known to the community at large that this principle has
been thus generally condemned. How can you be-
lieve that the public can be persuaded after such
denunciations that the proprietors of land alone
can take impartial views on this, subject.; that
they who are chiefly interested should, contrary
to the experience of all mankind, take clear and disin-
terested views on the present, occasion ?—(Hear, hear.)
The people will not so reason. They wi 11, I appre-
hend, attribute, however unjustly, that .you ;lave been
ebiassed
ct
eina
d,favieut of ho
and in
in those interests toefre:t s
systemw' w which
under
ryouae
whichr
some members of the ativernment are said to have in-
creased their incomes of late.—( Laughter and " Hear.")
Anything would be better than legislation. of this kind..
Be it error, if you will enact laws which may savour or
the ignorance of the 15th and 16th centuries on matters
of trade, you may sustain the odium arising in con-
sequence. But if you allow it to he said that the Par-
liament of this country—that the House of Commons,
have decided the question in which the food of the whole
community is involved on a partial basis, and to maintain
your own advantages, it will be impossible but that the
Legislature shall sutler in the estimation of their coun-
try.—(Cheers.) Such, Sir, being the views I take in
the present crisis, I only hope that you may come
to that decision' on this question which will show that
you have large and enlightened intentions with respect
to the future state of trade and commerce:—(Cheers)—
that you have considered agricultural, as well as all
other interests, and that, having so considered, you will
pass a law which, when it is passed, men will look on
as a blessing to the country, and will thank you with
gratitude and fervour in their hearts as wise and bene-
ticent legislators.—(Cheers.) That such may be your
decision I most cordially wish, but I cannot think that
you can legislate thus, unless you. proceed upon princi-
' ples entirely different from those submitted to you onWed-
nesday night. I therefore beg leave to move " That this
House, considering the evils which have been caused by
the present Corn-laws, and especially by the fluctuations
of the graduated or sliding scale, is naootdpriespairaeLll3to,
to
odobpet
the measure of her Majelsltcy;psle(!overnment, which is
whilst he endeavoured, with
taf:iteleillipldrdr.eoeGdfdbLiubipAndipiselisSmtYlr°aersisisaplE"nee'sceut'ltifi'dsor.r, the talents and situation of
hed bhyadurging the Housebby
following
to re
him in
Noble Lord, •to discharge his duty,
made, he should snake
ite histhe
first effort to , disembarrass the question of all
thatin oti one biliate ha 11

that did not belong to the immediate issue
before the House, and confine attention to the real
matter in :dispute between the Government and -the
Noble: Lord. The Noble Lord had concluded his
speech by drawing dismal representations of the
impressions which might be entertained abroad in case
the House should consent to the measure proposed by
her Majesty's Government; and he (Mr. Gladstone),
concluded that the foundation of those representa-
tions was the feeling which had been so strongly mani-
fested in various parts of the country with reference to the
present Corn-laws. But the Noble Lord, as the advo-
cate of a fixed duty on corn, had no right to take advan-
tage of that feeling for the purpose of drawing those
representations, or to assume that in case he
should succeed in inducing the House to reject that mea-
sure, the sentiments to which he had referred would be
gratified, or the agitations which existed would be al-
layed.—(hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had not scru-
pled to come forward as. a protector of
agriculture. The Noble Lord declared that, in his
opinion, it was impossible at the present moment to enact
a free trade in corn.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord
had given them two grounds for that opinion ;
and it seemed to him (Mr. Gladstone) that •
if lie acted consistently with those grounds
he ought to accept
the measure which had been ten-
tiered by her Majesty's Government.—(lronical cries of
" Hear, hear," from the Opposition.). The Noble Lord
said, and he differed in that respect from his supporters, that
of this coantr
there were special reasons for protecting the agriculturey, and in
consequence of which a certain
amount of taxation ought to be imposed
upon the importation of the food of • the
people. But the Noble Lord did not stop there ; he
stated another distinct, and in his (Mr Gladatone's)opi=
nion, most valid ground for theimposition of a duty upon
foreign corn. The Noble Lord said, for a series cf years—
he might have said for many centuries—the Legislature
had maintained a system,
differing indeed in its form, but
still a syskem of restrictions upon the imports tionof foreign
corn. On the faith of these restrictions enormous capitals
had been invested ; through those investments millions
of the population were .employed, and the Noble Lord
justly held that the consequences of disturbing those
capitals, of creating an agricultural panic, of
displacing vast quantities of agricultural labour,
would be so disastrous to the country that
it ought not to he entertained for a moment.
Therefore, when the Noble Lord expressed himself so
obnoxious to the outcry and clamour of those who con-
demned any restrictions on importation or on trade, and
who advocated the unive'rsal and inalienable right
of man—(Cheers)—to interchange the produce
of his labour, the Noble Lord was amenable to
the censures of many of those to whom he looked
for support on his motion' that night—the cen-
surer of those who declared that corn and provision laws
should be abolished, and that the entire and inalienable
right of man—the right freely to exchange the produce
of his labour for food with other countries—should be
recognized, without imposing protection on those articles
intended by divine Providence as benefits to man. The real
question was, not which side of the House en-
listed in support of this argument the greatest array
of prejudice and passion. If that were the ques-
tion, there was prejudice enough, and there was
passion enough, in support of the appeal which had
been made. But the question was looking con-
stitutionally to the representation of the people—
looking to the course of legislation always
pursued—looking to the burthens, as the Noble Lord
affirmed, and affirmed justly, laid upon agriculture
—whether, locking to all these circumstances of the case
they should reject or adopt such a scale of duties
as was required in the present state of affairs. There
was a ground upon which the Noble Lord had said pro.-
tection should be given to agriculture in order to
make this country entirely independent of foreign
supply. He (Mr. Gladstone) was going to discuss that
ground at that moment, because he agreed with the
principle laid down by the Noble Lord, but he did not
think that, under these
_circumstance, the Noble Lord
could refuse to accept the proposal of his Right
Honourable Friend. The Noble Lord had' quoted the
opinion of a high authority, he meant Mr. Huskisson.
Mr. Huskisson, in 1815, had supported the proposition
now submitted, that this country should be made hide-
pendent of foreign supplies. He (Mr. G.) knew that
subsequently Mr.:H. had occasion to modify that opinion;
but seven years after having written his (Mr. IL's)
report, when he was challenged on the ques-
tion, he gave his decided opinion that domestic agricul-
ture should be rendered independent of foreign supply.
He should contend, in what he had to submit to the
House, that the evils ascribed to the existing Corn-laws
only existed in a small degree, and were full of gross
exaggeration. He should further. contend, with refer-
ence to the Noble Lord's motion, not only that
those evils were exaggerated, but that he was
not justified in saying that the measure now
proposed was founded on the same principle as the Present
Corn-laws ; he(Mr. Gladstone)admitted that it depended
in some degree on the sense in which the word, principle,
was understood, and he was sorry that there was no
word which they should use with more caution than that
of principle. If they meant the principle of a gra-
duated scale, in opposition to a fixed duty, then ho
granted them, the present plan was founded on the same
principle as the existing Corn-laws.' - But if they meant
that the present plan was founded on the system of
;great protection to the agriculturist, and with the inten-
tion of keeping corn at a high price, that he would not
admit.—(Hear,' heat) 'He should also contend that
the advantages ascribed to'a fixed duty on corn—
which' it was all very well to laud whilst it
• was in the distance, when it never had been tried,
and they were suffering under present distress—were us
grossly exaggerated as the defects attributed to the
working of a graduated scale--(Hear, hear)—and that the
objections to a fixed duty which attached to it on its own
merits, were of an insuperable nature—(Hear, hear).—
He thought the Noble Lord must see, and ;hat every
Man who had applied his mind to the
consideration of the subject must see, that
the question was beSet with difliculties, and that,
under present circumstances, whether they adopted a
graduated scale, or whether they adopted a fixed duty,
or a system of free trade altogether, various objections
might-be urged against all. He, on the other hand, was
ready to admit that the present scale had not operated
in the favourable way which had been anticipated by
the framers of that scale. But they had to look at
charges made against the present plan ; a notion had
gone abroad, and it had become a popular notion, that
the present Corn-laws were the cause of the distress
existing in the country. It was strange to see how men
of sense, of searching minds,
appeared to be possessed
by a kind of mania in discussing the present Corn-laws,
that the evils which were owing neither to that nor any
other system of law, but to those dispositions which pro-
duce plenty or scarcity of corn, should attribute
them to the action of the Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.)
He referred. particularly to the writings of Mr. Wilson,
a gentleman whom he could not name without express-
ing his admiration of his talents, and the sense of the
value of the information he had thrown upon the sub-
ject by his researches. But a man would hardly believe
read them without
emreadfainirgly—hitshat
works—and he hoped he had
such opinions would have
been advanced by a gentleman of such intelligence.
Mr. Wilson saw nothing in the fluctuations of prices
and of supply, but the operation of the Corn-laws. He has
said that in the years 1833, 1834, 1835, 1836, and 1837
. had immense supplies of corn at exceeed-
ices. And why was that ? The twice of
gi this y. uo nwt rpj
wheat, Mr. Wilson contended, ought from its own
nature to be the steadiest thing in the world. But the
immensely low prices of those years arose from the fact,
that the Corn-laws hail given exaggerated hopes to the
farmer.—(Hear, hear.) But was there any man who
could believe that the difference in prices between 1833
and 1836, and 1839 and 1840, was ascribable to the
operation of the Corn-laws, and not to the operation of
the seasons ? In 1839 and 1840, the prices became ex-
ceedingly high, and the cause of that also was the opera •
Lion of the Corn-laws. The farmers had got so sick of
the Cern-laws in the cheap years from 1833 to 1836,
that they restricted the breadth of land brought under
wheat to such an extent as to cause the difference
of supply between the cheap years and the
dear years.—(Hear, hear.) Now he _ would Ask
whether there was any gentleman in the House pre-
pared to go the length, and virtually to defend the prin-
ciple, that the variety of seasons has nothing to do with
the amount of wheat brought to market ? lie confessed
that if he was to hear such an opinion advanced 'he
would despair even more than he then did of a. satisfac-
tory and zunicable adjustment of 'the question. The
Noble Lord had referred to the representations that had
been made by his (Mt Gladstone's) night. lion. Friend,
upon the subject of the existing distress. Nov his
Right Hon. Friend did not- attribute the distress to
the introduction of machinery, which must ultimately in-
crease the comforts of man, but he stated that the results
of improvements in machinery must have thrown many
hands for a time out of employment.. He (Mr. Gladstone)
did nut think it could he denied that there had been an
over-production of late years, and that that, over-produc-
tion had produced that great distress amongst sonie.classes.
There were other causes which he might enumerate, such
as the great amount of capital absorbed in , other . modes,
but the House would probably conceive that the late, the
unusual,the extreme case of the occurrence of four bail har-
vests in succession, was sufficient, which was not owing to
not hare to pay high,
the Corn-laws. Yet when they heard of the-high price of
food. But it was a char' ge
oap-it.iws, that they ae.gra •
wheat they never heard their bad harvests noticed. Ile
could not conceive that any man Fond apply with tamper
to the consideration of this subject, and not believe but
that under any conceivable system it was likely that
a
true
supplytl t?they
inure than four bad harvests might occur successively,
enarddye, ina
sphtrtitchielees mightppfreoeorspeltieihtei.
m
vated the evils of the deficiencies in the supply.
hear.) He did nordefend them—as Corn-laws, he did
aggravated
As far as he
thent;f' n defendaa (b)futtt
could judge from an exatnination of the circumstances,
he could not bring his mind to that conclusion.
In the last fourteen years the fluctuations of'
the price of wheat bad amounted to 79 per cent., but
the fluctuation in the price of cotton, an article in which
trade was perfectly free, but subject to fluctuation,
and he q
amounted to 85 per cent. ; noted the opinion of
Mr. Haskisson on the Committee of 1821. stating that
lafiCiietntti
wheat was an article in which the greatest fluctuations
were always to be expected. • He would not compare the
prices of the home market with the prices of the
foreign' market, because they replied to that
that the foreign market was unnaturally sti-
mulated by the British demand •in times
of scarcity, and unnaturally depressed wb ell that
demand was withdrawn ; yet the Corn-laws were
Made chargeable with these fluctuations.—(Hear.)
In defence or palliation of the existing Corn-haws it was
fair he should refer to former Corn-laws at former pe-
riods.—(Hear, hear.) If he did so the fluctuation would
be found very considerable. The Right Ron. Gentleman
then went into a statement of figures, showing g that this
fluctuation in the price of corn under former, Corn-

•
laws was as., considerable as under the present.
The Bight Hon. Gentleman. then referred to the state-
ment made by Sir IL Peel as to the price of rye in Prussia.
It was an article which it was very fair to taloe to compare
with the price of wheat in this country-, because- it made
the principal part of the food of the people of that
country, and if the fluctuation in the price of rye in
Prussia was found to be az great as that of
corn in this country, it would, he considered,
be a testimony in favour 'of the present
Corn-laws. The Right lion. Gentleman then quoted
from the " Prussian States Gazette" a statement of the
variation in the price, of rye in Prussia, which showed
that the fluctuation.,.in the price of that article was
greater than the fluctuation in the price of
wheat in England during com.sponding periods.
There was another case of the same kind, but he thought those
figures showed the fluctuations of price which had been ex-
perienced were not attihutable to the law tinder which they
lived, but were to be ascribed to the nature of the commodity,
and the difficulty of adjusting the demand to the supply. It
was argued that one effect of the present Corn-law was to give
to the foreigner too high a price for his corn ; and it had been
stated by Mr. Blacker in the Times that the position of Eng-
land in asking for foreign corn was like a party at an auction
who, after bidding all his competitors out of the field, went on
against himself; that was, they were bidding a lirge premium to
foreign holders. It was admitted with reference litany stock of
corn they bad in foreign ports, that it was an evil there was no
denying, but then it was said the alteration of the scale encou-
raged parties to hold till the prices rose. If the prices were
Potted up to 735., at least this must be allowed, that there was
a great abundance brought into the country. It hail been
customary to refer to the last summer to show the operation
of the Corn.laws, but the question was, whether
under another system, whether under a system of
fixed duty, the matter would be better.---( Hear. )
Let them suppose that instead of the existing law they had the
es. duty of the Noble Lord; was it certain that in that case the
price of corn would be as moderate as it now was , or as it was
sincethe middle of September last, or as it is likely to be for
the next four months? He could easily conceive that a cer-
tain portion of corn at a lower duty would have been brought
in at an earlier period.•---( Hear, hear, froM the Opposition
Benches.) but the great bulk of the corn was brought in on
the spur of the moment, and by reason of the high prices.
Without the high prices they had no reason to say that the corn
would have come in. Even with a fixed duty the markets would
continue in a feverish state. The fact was, that instead of the
pressure coming on in fhe summer months, as it had, it would,
have occurred in winter, when employment was diminished,
and the wants of the people greater. The npinion;, promul-
gated by the Nohle Lord this evening, did not altogether cor-
respond with certain opinions ascribed to him when his expe-
rience was less mature. In his (Mr. Gladstone's) .opinion,
the experience acquired by the Noble Lord withiethe last few
years, had a material effect in approximating his ideas to those
of the Hon. Members on his ( Mr. G,'s) side of the House. The
Noble Lord seemed to be ahnost a convert to the doctrine of a mini-
! mum duty. The Noble Lord said,. Collect your averages as
you will, they will vet kad to fraud. For the sake of a mini-
mum duty, the Noble Lord was content to persevere in the
system of averages, although he declared it would be accessary
to fraud. Let them take the doctrine of the Noble Lord
as he had ainouneed it to-night, and compare it
with the graduated scale of his Right Honourable Friend.
The Noble Lord said 83. or thereabouts; Its. up to the point
of 735. or 745., and a tall at that point to a Is. duty.—( Hear,
hear.) His Right Hon. Friend said a descent, shilling. by
shilling, from 565. when it was 16s. ; at 665. it became 65.,
and a further descent, shilling by shilling, 4t. 735., where he
and the Noble Lord at length coincided. When the price was
at 645., there again his Right Hon. Friend and the Noble
Lord were what they said of great planets—they were in con-
junction.—(Laughter.) But now, what was the operation
upon the mind of the imposter of foreign corn of the two
schemes? What was the temptation to • work the average?
What was the comparative temptation to commit fraud under
the two systems?—(" Hear," front the Ministerial benches.)
Under the scheme proposed by his Right Hon. Friend, when
the price was at 645., he knew that he had no chance of get.
Ling down to the minimum duty without standinc, for a rise of
price. The importer, at Bs., knew that he had no chance
whatever till he raised the price up to 735. ; and he knew that
when he worked it up to that he would get in his corn at a
duty of one shilling only ; wheu there was a small
supply_ it was certain that the price must. go up to 735.
The Noble Lord said—and certainly it was one of the most Se-
rious objections against the working of the present law was,
that it excluded the more distant countries, as the United
States. But he believed there was a misapprehension in some
minds with respect to the United States. The time of transit
of corn from Philadelphia or New York to Liverpool was not
so tedious as was supposed. He was informed that it was id-
fested in six weeks.—(Hear, hear.) He could only say that
was the information he had received from a gentleman of
Liverpool, who was an enemy to the sliding-scale. Then what
was the case of America? When the price rose to 735. and
the duty fell to Is., those who had corn in bond. and those
who had it on hand in neighbouring countries could avail
themselves of the low duty ; but the American would not.
have a chance, for before his corn could arrive here the duty
would have leaped up.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Now,
in fact, the proposition, even, the Noble Lord would keep
up, that which was the greatest objection to the existing law.
But let them examine the scale proposed by his Right lion.
Friend with America. Suppose a fall of five or six shillings
to take place after corn had reached the highest point, and that
' was as great a fall as could rationally be expected, the duty
in the proposed scale would be but 6s. instead of as., as pro-
posed by the Noble Lord opposite.—( Hear, hear.) The
great objection to the existing system, as regarded America,
was the enormous rapidity of the reduction. This was a
•powerful objection to the continuance of the present laws, and
a reason why they should adopt any practical measure for the
amendment of these laws ; Lint how did the objection apply to
the measure of his Hight Honourable Friend? Under the
Proposed scale the difference would never amount
to a prohibitory duty—all the difference, the utmost
WI in the average would be 6s. or 7s. The effect of that would
be to bring the prices back to about 665.. and the duty 65., the
difference of du, y on Which the importer would have to calcu-
late would be 55., instead of 19s. Bd, or '2os. Bd., or whatever
it might be at present. That difference, instead of being one
that would operate •to prevent the undertakings of comatercial
enterprise, was one which might enter into the reasonable cal-
culation of the importer, and was perfectly compatible with
steadiness of mercantile transactions. The Noble Lord, in one !
portion of his speech, had called the proposed plan of his Right
Hon. Friend, in reference to its purposes of efficiency, " Doing
nothing." New, he could not see that it was so much more
blameable to propose a measure doing nothing, and a measure
for doing something, which there was no hope of carrying.—
(Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) But let theM
see if this could be proved. Let them sec whether the absolute
evidence of experience gave them reasonable grounds for hope
under ordinary circumstances. The scale proposed by his Right
Hon. Friend will have a different operation while wheat was
high, while markets were rising, the weather threatening, and
circumstances critical—whether there was a rational hope that
the plan would have. a different operation than the operation of
the present laws. He would not speculate that such would be
the case. He wished to lay as little as possible of his own spe-
culation before the House, but he should try, if possible, to
state what had occurred from speculative evidence. They were'
not altogether without light on this subject. Wheat was not
the only kind :)f grain that was placed under the operation of
the scale. The operation of the scale had indeed been dif-
ferent as to other kinds of grain from the one proposed .
by his Right Honourable Friend. The descent was more
considerable in the present scale. ( Ilear, heur.),
It had been rather prematurely assumed that the new was almost,
identical with the old. Now, under the present scale, when
the price was 665., the holder would be disposed to wait his
chance of it reaching 735., so that between the fall of the duty
and the price, he would have a chance of gaining 38s. Bd. a
quarter ; but, under the new scale, when the price was 605., the
holder, calculating on the uncertainty of its reaching
might yet gain 13s. in price, and 1 Is. in duty, a far sum
truly; but there would be many chances against it. The Noble,
Lord again was wrong in assuming that a bonus of 11s. would
have the same effect as a bonus 'of 5s Stl. Now, when
.the
price was 665., the holder, by waiting until it rose to 735.,
would gain 7s. in price, and 19s. Bd. in duty—
making 265. Bd., an enormous bonus; but under the

_ .
proposal of his Right llonourable Friend, the price being G6s.
and the duty 65., there would be less temptation to speculate
in the mise to 735. ; and seeing that when under the old 19s. Bd.
might be gained, while the new offered but ss. ; both could
not be said to be the same. What was there then in the plan
of his Right Hon. Friend which the Noble Lord could object to.
The Noble Lord had stated that the plan of his Right Hon.
Friend would make no alteration in prices, different from that
of the old laws, he (Mr. Gladstone) would show by evidence
a different effect. Messrs. Kingston and Lay, eminent. corn-
merchants, had written to '.the correspondsnts abroad for the
Government, in their commercial transactions, and he would
read an extract from the circular. The Hon. Gentleman then read
an extract from a circular of Messrs. Kingston and Lay, which
stated that in their opinion it would be safe to purchase corn
from this country when the duty was likely to be I4s. or 18s.
per quarter. The. Noble Lord had called that a prohibiting
duty, and that corn would never be imported at that dot y.—
Yes, the Noble Lord said that 20s. was a prohibiting duty, and
for several' shillings below that sum. Now this circular had
come into his (Mr. Gladstone's) hands, and he had shown that
one of the first houses in the trade had recommeuded it as safe
to purchase corn fur this country when the duty was likely to
be 14.. or 18s.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman continued
his extract from the above circular, which again recommended
that corn should be purchased when it could be entered for
home consumption at 14s. to l,w. duty, as under the proposed law
would,not.hold out any inducement for corn-dealers to hold
back, as had, kitherto been the case. The corn-dealcr would
therefore sell their corn ex ship. Such was the opinion ex-
pressed by those gentlemen upon the plan of the /tight Hon.
Gentleman. He was stuite sure they would not have made
that recommendaticn under the other plan. But he ( Air.
Gladstone) proposed to take the rates of duty which had been
taken under the existing law, vicious as it. was in some parts.
lie should take the rates of duty on every species of corn, ex-
cept wheat, in order to enable the House to judge whether the
proposed plan was likely to meet the evils complained. Now,
the average rate of duty from July, 1821, to December, 1841,
had been ss. 7d. If it had been paid in •a sum proportionate
to its value, then, instead of being he. 7d., it would
have been something less than 3s. Now, mark the argument
of the Noble Lord. who said that the alteration would do no-
thing to improve the present system—that. corn would be held
back, when it would be a relief to the market—that it would
not be admitted till prices were at the highest, and then the
market would be glutted—and whether they had the old sliding
scale, or the one proposed, was of very trifling moment. If
the operation of the barley scale had been analogous to the
wheat scale, the duty paid would be 3s. instead of -is. Bd. The
duty on oats, if paid irt the same proportion, would have been
2s. 2d. What did the House suppose was the average duty
exacted? It was three tiraes that amount—exactly Gs. 6d. Yet
the Noble Lord, considering these facts altogether beneath his
notice, or unworthy time consideration of the House, coolly
overlooked them, and told them that the operations of the al-
tered scale would be the same as the operations of the present
scale. In the case of rye alone, there Was little difference, and
that was because the demand for rye in this csontry was at all
times very limited. Beans, in the same ratio of charges, would
be 4s. 2d. instead of ss. 9d., peas 3s. 2s. instead of 6s. 4d.
He put it to the House, whether the operations of the
altered scale of his Right Honourable Friend, were
not calculated, according to reasonable expectations, to amend
the operations of the present law, with which so much fault had
been found. Then the Noble Lord said that his great objection
to the plan of his Right Hon. Friend was that it contained a
prohibitory duty ; and to show this he (the NUble Lord) had
referred to the prices of wheat at Dantzic, when Mr. Meek
was on the Continent, and had taken the circumstances of re-
cent years ; he had found that they could not get wheat at
Dantzic under 355. per quarter, he added to that IN. 6d. for
charges. This he would not call an exorbitant, though it
certainly was an excessive allowance. By adding 10s. 6d.
for charges he (the Noble Lord) got the price up to 455. 6d., and
he then should add the duty of 205., and it will be absolutely
prohibitory.—( Hear, hear. ) Now they had a protective
duty, which in certain states of the market would
not be prohibitory.—( hear.) The question was whether
was applied was reasonable, wile-
the price at which the duty
ther it indicated plenty at home, for if that was the case the
principle of a Corn-law ought to be maintained, as it would
secure the Pgriculturists and the mass of labourers dependant
upon agriculture. As long as the home-producers were able
to supply the home market, it would be necessary to levy a
duty on foreign corn ; but the Noble Lord said that a duty of
twenty shillings was a prohibitory duty. Ile (Mr. Gladstone.)

would join issue with them upon that subject. When the
price of wheat at Dantzic was 265. people were apt to assume
that. it was the natural price of corn ; and that
every price over and above that was - unnaturally
caused by the demand from this country. The natural price
of corn there was 255., and he was convinced, from the system
which prevailed and the rates paid, and other circumstances
which entered into the question, that they must have a certain
quantity of corn disposable for his country at unnaturally low
prices, and it was against these low prices that the agriculturists
of this country have theprinciple of protection applied to them.
—( Cheers.) The Noble Lord must know that when wheat at
255. was shipped from Dantzie it would come into this country
at a price with which the Engl.sh farmer could not. compete.
He (Mr. Gladstone) did not feel himself hound by what the
Consul at Dantzic told Mr. Meek, but corn could be imported
fur 265., and he knew it could be imported from some of
the Baltic ports at 265., 275., or 28e. How could the home
producer contend against such prices ?—( Hear.) At present
the average price in this country was 625., and he believed in
London it was 645. or 655. ; and if, assuming the statement of
the Noble Lord, that Dantzie wheat, of a superior quality,
could be purchased at 355., and that a duty of I Os. on im-
portation was imposed, how was it possible that it would not be
detrimental to the home grower.—( Hear. ) It should he al-
ways kept in mind that a duty of 20s. was no new imposition
to be laid on the operative or commercial classes in favour of
the landed interest.—( Hear. ) Since the year 1704, there
never was a period when there had not been a maximum duty
of 20s, on the importation of foteign corn. In the latter part
of last century it had been. considerably raised during the war
to a maximum duty of something over 30s. For the
last one hundred and forty yeall there was a maxi-
mum duty of 205., during a portion of which there was a
corn trade, which may be said to be free for all practical pur-
poses. There were thirty years to which the opponents of the
present Corndaw referred, as showing the benefit of a system
of a free corn trade, during which the manufacturers, and
commerce, and agriculture of the country advanced, as they
ought to do, with rapidity, and hand .in hand, and yet, during
the whole of that period, there was a maximum duty of 20s.—.
(Cheers.) His Right Hon. Friend, therefore, in the proposi-
tion he has made, proposed only such a scale as that, during
the existence of which the country, by their own admission,
was in a healthy and sound condition.--(Cheers.) It was said
that. the irregularity in the demand for corn would have a ten-
dency to derange the currency.—( Hear, hear.) He was not
inclined to deny that there was some truth in that state-
ment.-_( Hear, hear.) But they must look to all the facts of the
case. It has been said that by a fixed duty a steady and un-
varying tradewould be produced, that they should pay for corn
with manufactures and not in specie, and that they would
avoid derangements of the currency, and they contrast that
picture with what had taken place during the last four years.
But, in the first place, would a fixed duty have the effect of
doing away with the derangements in the currency ? It was
said that the trade with America was crippled, because they did
not take Americatacorn. Now, in the year 1840, they only
imported 100,000 barrels of flour, and their export trade
amounted to 5,800,000/. ; while, in the. year 1836, there
was scarcely any imports of corn, while they exported
12,000,0001. ( Cheers. ) They must not be ready to expect
that other countries would enter with them into their commer-
cial policy, if they were to change it. Could they suppose
that, though they may take a larger amount of corn from
Rus,ia, that Russia would gre ttly enlarge her demand for their
manufactures?—(Hear, hear, hear. ) Their exports to
that country amounted to 6,000,0001,, and their imports
amounted ta only 2,000,000/., and the Emperor of Prussia—he
supposed by way of encouragement to open the trade in corn,
had lately imposed a more restricted tariff. —( Hear.) It was
natural to look to them as the commercial leaders of the
world, but it ought not to be too hastily expected that if they
suddenly relaxed their commercial system, and had recourse
all at once to extreme measures, these countries would also
change their's in a moment., for the sake of illustrating or
proving the truth of their example. But was it not true that
great fluctuations and derangements of the currency, and a ge-
neral pressure on the money market must have occurred in
substance under any Corn-law.— ( Hear, hear.) Granting the
defects of the present system, would a fixed duty remedy those
derangements ?—(Cries of "Hear, hear.") He did not think it
would be considered that the derangement in currency would
be cured by a fixed duty. It could not be expected with rela-
tion to such articles as were subject to fluctuation and uncer-
tainty,-and of which the demand must be adjusted by the supply,
that they could avoid those derangements of the currency. It
was not material how much they imported • the evils they de-
plored, and which they attributed to the Corn-law would have
existed. Those imports would not be paid for with manufac-
tures, but their value must be drawn from the currency, busi-
ness would be diminished, labourers would be unemployed,
deadness of the whole market would ensue, and they Would be
in the position they were at present.--(Cries of " Hear,
hear.") He should be glad to ate the proof that,
under the system of a fixed duty, the derangements
which existed in the currency, the four last years, would be
different from what they are at present.—(Cheers.) He must
say, therefore, that the advantages of a fixed duty in that respect
were greatly exaggerated, but it was the habit to make the
Core-laws the scape-goat of all that was wrong in the country.
( Cheers.) He would now come to the principle of a fixed duty.
In the first place the principle of a fixed duty was a new prin-
ciple of legislation, while a Corn-law had existed for five hun-
dred years; but it might be inconvenient to go so far back.—
( A laugh.) And there had been a maximum duty, except
during the year 1815, when there was a prohibitive in-
stead of a maximum duty ; and even the Corn-law of 1815 was
the application of a principle that had prevailed for many
years, and had governed the structure of every Corn-law
since 1660. The distinctive character of a fixed duty
was that the duty tad no relation to price. It got rid of all
averaees, lint if they looked into the accurate tables drawn
up by Mr. Porter, they would find that the principle of the
Corn-law was that the duty was always governed by the price,
and that as the price so was the duty.—( Hear, hear.) The
gradations of duty had been made more numerous generally,
but aseo principle, the fixed duty approximated to the principle
of the present law, and the principle proposed by the
Noble Lord is altogether a novel one.—( Hear, hear. )
The Noble Lord said, and he thought said rather boldly, that
the Committee of 1821 recommended a fixed duty, but it was
a fixed duty at the importation prim of 48s. a quarter—(Hear,
hear)—and he concluded that the Noble Lord would not ven-
ture to offer such a boon as that to those who were advocates
for free trade.—(Lordd. Russell made an observation across the
table, which was inaudible. Mr. Gladstone then continued.)
There was .a passage in that report, even more favourable to
the Noble Lord's argument, than tire one he quoted. The Com-
mittee held out a fixed duty as a fit matter for discussion,but they-
did not propose it as a substitute for or a correction of the laws
then existing. What they proposed was that the duty should be
fixed according to the importation of price. lint, granted
that it was as the Noble Lord hail stated, anti that a thaw! duty
had the authority of Mr. I inskisson--and a higher authority
was nowhere to be finnul—yet Mr. liuskisson afterwards
changed that opinion, and saw reason to enueeive that a ' oTaa
duated scale was capable of more beneficial operation. Hut
was the Noble Lord to tell him that the authority of Mr.
Huskisson's report of 1821 aas to over ride his authority at a
later period ?—( Hear, bear.) Was Mr. Iluski%son's conduct
and declarations then to be considered as over-riding his autho-
rity of 1827, when he showed that a graduated scale was
capable of a better adjustment? lint what was the
real objection to a fixed duty ?—( Hear. ) He did not say
that its advantages were much less than they professed to be,
not. only in attaining the objects which it was represented as
likely—aye, as the sure means of effecting, but that a fixed
duty. was in fact a delusion, for it could not be maintained
That one single reason was sufficient why the proposition for
a fixed duty ought not to be maintained. It would be im-
possible
for any Legislature in this country to maintain any
duty beyond a mere nominal duty, when prices were at a high
rate. The Noble Lord (whom he did not wish to distinh),
had, during the last year been very much amused, when
he termed the sliding scale a very slippery thing, and
that at high prices it would be impossible to levy a fixed duty.
If they referred to the authority of Mr. Canning, who was
strictly the organ of Mr. Huskisson's commercial views in
1827, he says that with famine in the manufactories and
famine in the cottage it would be impossible to maintain a
fixed duty on the article on which life was chiefly supported. But
why need they go back so far ?--why not appeal to the authority
which had been afforded in se gratifying manner this night by
the Noble Lord himself?—(Cheers and laughter.) Did they
not ,understand that, skilled as the Noble Lord was in debate,
proficient as he was in the practice of the House, and able as
he was in supporting his arguments, whatever those arguments
might, be--(Laughter)—had he not. to-night formally aban-
doned his own proposition— (Cheers)—and declared his opinion
that it would be impossible to levy a fixed duty beyond a cer-
tain point ?—( Great cheering.) There must be a provision,
whatever Government, or whatever Parliament might make
it, of a fixed maximum price by which to redurse the duty ; and
the question was which mode of adjustment would he prefer-
able. He was convinced that the Noble Lord in spite of his
abhorrence of fraud, notwithstanding all that lie had said, and
all that he had written on restrictions, and on the exeellunce
of a fixed duty, had actually. declared that he was ready to
have a fixed duty.—( hear, hear, and cheers.) If the present
scale jumps too or three shillings, no jump less than of eight
shillings would satisfy the Noble Lord.—(Great. cht. ring. )
Now a duty of twenty shillings on foreign corn as imposed
on the proposed scale, though it was snitch higher
than it could be justified by ordinary arguments,
vet it appeared to him to be 'a 'fair compromise between the
evils of the present system and the agricultural interest. The
agriculturists demanded prole :tion on two grounds—first,
from the peculiar burdens laid upon land ; secondly, on the
ground of the immense investments that have taken }dace
under the present system. Now, how did the case stand?
The article most tiece*sary, and of most. importance to the
subsistence of the people. was also the most fluetuatiug in
price, and one on which they claim. not as a favour but as an
absolute matter of justice, that up to a certain I oint they
should have protection. It was admitted, except by the Noble
Lord, that when the price reached a certain point in the case
of wheat, that protection could not be given, the Slat,
not being able to give to the producer of wheat that
protection which it gave to the producer of every other article,
It assumes to protect him, and ought to compensate him by a
duty at a low price, fur its inability to give him a protecting duty
at a high one ; he could see no injustice in Ibis arrangement.
Other objections would depend on the skill with which the details
of the plan were adjusted, but he did think that a compensating
high duty, at a low point of price, was no more than he could
in fairness demand. It was, therefore, that he had argued at.
such great length on the present subject.—( Hear, hear, from
the Opposition.) Rut with respect to that comparatively
narrow practical question now hetore them, the point us,
whether the protection due to agriculture should be gavento
one particular form or in another. They had heard evils a,
cribed to the present law, and those evils had been greatly ex-
aggerated, but they had no right to argue front the evils of the
old law, that the continuance of those evils, on the contrary,
would obviate their recurrence; anti he argned against the fixed
duty, and he trusted he should show that it would not
in practice, and it was impossible it should do, nor would any
other system do, what it proposed to effect; and, in point t 4
fact, it was no better than a delusion, because he believed con-
scientiously, and with his mind and heart, that a fixed duty
could not, under a pressure, he continued. Further, he
argued that the measure proposed by his Right Hon. Friend
was a measure of practical relief —a measure which he trusted,
and hoped, and believed, was a measure which many would be
found willing to accept, though many would not consider that
it embodied precisely their own sentiments on this great sub-
ject How was it possible that any scheme, or law, or pro-
posal, which involved a multitude of arguments, which in-
cluded feelings under which they were themselves guided and
sometimes driven—they could not expect that any one scheme
would command universal acceptation. But this much he did
say, that the presumption was not only in their opinion, but
ought to he in the opinion of those opposed to the
present Corn-laws, a great improvement on the system under
which they existed,—an improvement which they would see
carried into effect without the occurrence of those great and
counteracting evils which would attend a change made against
the wish of the agriculturists. ho was it that had warned
1 them against toe monstrous evils attendant on a change in the
; Corn-laws, and had read them the strongest lecture on that
subject that they had ever received? Why, the head of the
j late Government. —(Loud cheering.) The head of the late
Government had told them, and that, too, at a recent period,
that he, for his part, even then, notwithstanding the pressure
that had occurred, notwithstanding the high prices, the de-
rangement of the currency, the lack of employment, and the
depression of their export trade,' the exhaustion of the
home market,—yet he (Lord Melbourne) had told
them; in a recent declaration one made under
circumstances peculiarly applicable. to the present time,
" Whatever was the alteration proposed by his Friend, he could
see clearly And distinctly that its object could not be carried
without a violent struggle, the creation of ill blood, and the

deep tuns,. of grievance ; without stirring society to its founds-
lion, leaving behind it every sort of animosity. He did not
think the advantage of the change worth the evils it would
ul.rt!n,g,with its They had, at no distant period, seen changes
would
„ society,sed set man against man, and
had left behind the deepest feelings of discord. He, for one,
ti d iu saying No ts fotion was not one oetrehl:i
rn, y
c;,l
i(a)olnnedno,t
focnthhathischange,
Ne
,gorbboluuetn
merely
act,
ee.,;:w; afosirj,
huaasi
admissioe that some change ought to take place in the Cern-
laws. That which Lord Melbourne denied was conceded, o'
rather offered than conceded, by her Majesty's Government. Lt
did not disturb the system, and yet settled nothing. On
the ctntrary it was a great legislative plan, which they were
assured might be carried into effect without creating a convul-
sion It would meet with the satisfaction of the agricuienrat
community and their representatives in that House, as all a,
the other great interests of the country.—(Hear, heat,'S
Were they to stand contending with mere abstractions, arni
doing battle,, Session after Session, for different plans of amend-
meet of the Coin-laws ; and, in the meantime, letting our-
selves remain as weever were? Ile refer.ed mile, circular of
the Anti-Corn-law Conference, which, he was Pony to gay,
represential the letilings of a gnat number of persons.. They
on Wedt,esdav
hts
plan was an insult to the suflering nation. They took it for a de-
claration eaotnitTuldf-elidashtissalernessw,ho declaredßlghlth Hon.the
that the landed aristocracy v ere destitute of all gym=
pathy ; wertsresolved, if permitted by the people, to persist in
their selfish policy. They met again at nine, and passed
a resolution, slating that the deputies then present did, en
further eousideration, give the place, both on :heir own litheir
and in the name of their constituents, their solemn condetstria"=..
than, and intend their protest against it, as a total denial of
the just. demands of the people of this country. —( Hear, hear.
He knew net what the just demaids were to to which they
referred, but he would alto turn to the sentiments of an oppo-
site' party. Of those who stood at the opposite extreme their
opinions were differently expressed, for he found, at a meet.'
log held at Boston on the same day, the 9th of February, 4114
the farmers of Boston think there is co insult contained in tlve
plan which was entitled to their respect. He thought they
made some demands which could not be complied with, but
they suggest that the larger towns, such as Manchester and
Birmingham, should not he included in the list of those fee
making out the averages. That the average price of... Wheat
should not be less than 60s. a quarter, and that, inasmuch se'
wheat could be conveyed from Hamburgh to London for the same
cost as from Lynn or Boston, the amount of their protection waS
merely the amount of the duty and the transit. could not be
taken into account. That the maximum duty of 20.. a quar-
ter was insufficient for the protection of the English farmer,
by the ruinous competition against the farmer, and that ihe
maximum duty ought not to be less than :30s. But what wee
to be done between such extremes, which, however, both as in this respect, that they both acted honestly in what
they believed to be, not their own selfish interests, but
the interests of the country at lirge ; and a pro-
position made, either for one or the othr, would hate
no hope of obtaiiiieg any settlement. Ile therefore treated
that Hirt House would adopt, andettopt by a large majority,
the measure recommended by his Right Hon. Friend, as a
great improvement in the operation of the laws, as a bene-
ficial change for the entire community, yet still maintaining
the great principle which Parliament was pledged to main-
tain, that of protection to the agricultural it terest._that large,
and overwhelming interest, which in some form or other was
connected with, and dependent on the agricultural community.
—( Hear, hear.) In his part, and as a servant, of the Govern-
ment, and looking on all the circumstances on which he could
form a judgment in the matter, he gave a hearty assent to
the proposal. lie was tatisfitd that it' they should succeed in
carrying the measure proposed, it would be found that it would
give a relief to the consumer, a protection to the producer, and
gave a stimulus to their foreign trade.—( Cries of
Hear.) Though their measure itself might be misrepresented,
arid their motives and characters maligned as connected with it,
yet they would be well contented with the consciousness that
they had made an effort to benefit the country, and they might
wait with patience for is judgment.—(The Hon. Member sat
down amid loud cheering from the Ministerial benches.)
Mr. CHARLES WOOD said that the Hon. Gentleman
had taken some trouble to prove, first, that the Ministerial mea-
sure was scouted as a mockery by the Anti-Corn-law Con-
ference, and was considered as an inadequate protection by the
agricultural interest.--(Hear, hear, hear.) He certainly did
not expect that the admission would have come . from
that. side of the House, an admission, that neither to those who
advocated the true interests of the country, nor those who
were put forward as the representatives of the agricultural dis-
tricts, had the proposition of her Majeety's Ministers given
any satisfaction whatever ?—( Hear, hear) lie had stated
also, that this measure was defended not for the purpose of
establishing a remunerating price, not for giving a protection
to any one class ; he had equally repudiated the idea that
it was for the purpose of maintaining the country inde-
pendent of foreign supply, an independence which,
he believed, had Lever existed during the present century.
Looking at the returns which had been laid on the table, of the
import of corn from the beginning of this century, it would
be found that for the first. ten years it was half a million o
quarters per annum ; about the same for the next ten years;
upwards of a million quarters from 1820 to 1829 ; and that
dulling the last ten years the average importation was upwards
of two million quarters of corn. It was perfectly absurd and
ridiculous, therefore, to talk of their being independent of
foreign supply, when, from the beginning of the present cen-
tury, this country had not been able to supply its population
with food, and when, too, it was evident that its inability to do
so was constantly increasing. The question was no longer should
they be independentfof foreign supply; but in what way, on what
Iterms, and by what regulations that supply could be received
with most advantage to the country.--(hear, hear.) The
question was whether that could best he done by a fixed duty
or by a sliding scale.. The Right Hon. Gentleman said that.
it was utterly impossible for them to regulate the seasons, to
reckon with certainty upon the harvests, and to provide against
fluctuation ; hut he (Mr. C. Wood) saw no difficulty what-
ever in the attempt to counteract those fluctuations, and he
contended that the sliding-scale was adopted to increase them.
The Right. Hon. Gentleman had made many statements for
the purpose of showing that.the variations in price had not been
so great as %had been : supposed. He (Mr. C. Wood)
could not admit for.a moment that he had made out his case.
The Bight. Hon. Bart. stated that the object of his scale
was to keep the price of corn between, 14.5. and 58s.
in other words, to keep it at about 116 s. Now, was there any
probability of that being effected? He contended that there
was not. And in the old law a ranch wider range was laid
doen for the flnetuatinn, and he would show-them the object
had in that case entirely failed. Mr. Canning Stated that his
elijrict was to keep the price varying from 555. to 655. 'I he
fluctuation, however-, far exceeded 70 per cent. or 8b per rent.,
which the Hon. Itaronet seemed to consider the utmost limit.
It, the beginning of the winter of 1831, ,the. price was 755. ; in
Dee. 1,*31, it was t:t ;in Dec. 1832, itjco.,sZ3s. 7d. ;in e.
183-1, it was 40s. ; in Dee. 1835, it was ,365;. so that under this
law, which was to keep the price of corn steady at 605., the
price in 1835 was lower than it had been for the preceding 70
years. The very next winter, within twelve months, the price
bad risen to till. Od., or 70 cent. ; in the winter of 1R29, the
price had risen to hOs. 6d., Inure than .11:(1 per rent above the
price in Dee. I£x:s.—(Hear, hear.) But he would now take
the quartorly averages. Take the last ten years ending in
1840. Out of those ten years, in three of them only did the
yearly average range within the limit stated by Mr.
Canning. In • 1631, the yearly average was 665. 4d.
above the limit ; in 1832, 58s. Bd., within the limit ;, in 1833,
525. 11d., below the limit; in 1834, 465. 2d. below the limit ;
in 1835, 495. 4d ; in 1836, 48s. 6d., again below Mr. Can-
ning's average ; in 1837 and 1838, 555. 10(1., anti 645. 10d.
both within the limit ; in 1839, 70s. Bd. ; iu le4o, 665. 4d.
again above Mr. Catining's limit. So that in 7 years out of
the last 10, *kit's!: the average, the Bill of Mr. Canning entirely
failed iu keeping the, price cif corn within the limit, if 10s.
should be assigned to the fluctuation. And it should be ob-
served that in these prices there were none of those extraor-
dsnary jumps, none of those drops of 25., 35., and 45., upon
which so much stress had been laid. It was not likely then
that the proposed scale would succeed in its object when the
old one, which allowed a larger limit, had totally failed.—
( Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Gentleman insisted not a little
on the variation iu the price of rye in Prussia ;
there it was the main article of consumption. He thought it
was not fair to institute a comparison between two countries,
otie of which was so superior to the other in advancement. and
civilization.-(Hear, hear.). There was a statement in on '•f
the pamphlets to which reference had been made, that by it
C. Lemon, the object of which was to show that the varia-
tion was greater in foreign ports than in this country.
'faking the price from the year 1829 to 1838, and compar-
ing it with the price in England, it appeared that
from nine different ports or places, namely, Odessa,
Memel, Hamburg!), Antwerp, Dant zis, Dresden, Rot-
terdam, and America, the variation was much greater in Eng-
land them in those places. In the year 1840, between the end of
July and beginning of Sept., the ditty fell from 16s. Bd. to 2s. Bd.
On reference to these accounts it would be sect' Nliat in the week
ending the 30th of July with a duty of 16s Bd. there were 4,000
quarters imported ; the next week, at. a duty of 10s. Bd., there
were 14,000 quarters ; Rio next week at (is. Bd., there were
11,000 Then came the minimum duty of 2s. std., when there
were 1,170,000 quarters. Would it not have been for the ad-
vantage of the country to hare had an Bs. fixed duty during the
whole of that period ? He (Mr. Wood) said that it seemed to him

. -
Viat by the documents produced by the Government, 20s. ap-
. pealed to he a prohibitory duty. The duty at 565., which was the
p ice aimed at by the Hight Hon. Gentleman, amounted to
almost a prohibitory duty. Protection to the fat mer was
entirely throw. over by the flight Honourable Gentleman.
and the good of the community at large seemed to be his only
object. It. remained then to be shown why 565. was precisely
she price which would be for the good of the community. If
any reliance could he put on the returns retreating the price
acorn, it was ordinarily about 455. That price included all
torts of wheat, good and bad, and if they compared that price
with ;he price of English wheat, it would be found that. 455.
was far Mow tie average quality of English wheat. It would
bn found that, for the last ten years, no foreign corn whatever
paid a duty of more than 10s. ; and therefore every duty ex•
cceding that sum was 't quivalent to a prohibitory duty. The
great utast of corn imported into this country since 1630.
was imported at a duty- of Ms. in ISW there had been
1,400,000 quarters imported, and nearly 1,200,000 of that paid
tis duty. In 1H:11 there had been imported 1.000,000
quarters. and of these 963,000 paid under Ms. duty. In 183 e,
1,700,000 quarters, of which 1,500,000 quarters paid a duty
under Ss. In 1839,'2,500,000 quarters, of which only 50,0(X)
quarters paid a duty above 10s. In 1840, about :340,0(K) quar-
ters above a duty of 111,., but all the rest was imported at or
under Ss. duty. The lowest average price was 455. 9d., and

the highest 535. 5d., and if the average freight, without. any
charges, was added, the average price at the port of ex-
port would be Zi4s. 544. Upon that it would be found
That the duty would amount to a prohibitory duty. He had
he thought, shown that a fixed duty would secure greater ad-
vantages to the consumer than the sliding-scale. It was nut
necessary to state any arguments in favour of any particular
amount of fixed duty. It was convenient for Hon. Gentlemen
opposite to argue upon the amount proposed by the -Govern-
ment of last year, namely 85. He had shown that corn
at a fixed duty of t.s. would have been cheapet —that neater
advantage would have been derived by the consumer Mtn a
fixed duty, during the last summer (which had been selected
by the Right Hon. Gentleman in his arguments), when prices
were high, than form a sliding scale. A fixed duty, be it what
it might, only took so touch from the profit of the foreign im-
porter, without adding to the price pant by the consumer. A
fixed duty would also be attended with what he (Mr. Wood)
held to be a still greater advantage—he meant a regular,
constant, arid steaoy trade. So long as any sliding scale
was in operation ( although the proposed scale was an
improvement on the present one), iso long the trade must
be intifined necessarily to ports wi bin a short distance.
The merchants of Hamburgh and other places on the Conti-
nent, were anxious that the Corn 'laws should be continued in
their resent state—that clearly showed that they must_be.at
source of advantage to them. The argument of the
measureliin
sHe s
on7,..hau
Gentleman
in generally
a prevailing
m ed i ntii
Holt. Gentleman (Sir Robert Peel) in favour
against
stth atilt the
e iinflux
utlxr i
ot ifs hf o
rpeei
goli,l people 0 could
rn a t periodsnot
wprotecthoreafa_ hlti:sli.leems
,sz_e.!boveneiss,
on the. Continent, and it, this country were fe
avourable. hi
Honourable
corn is dear on the Continent, said
tivit is scarce there, it
Baronet, it will be also dear here—
protection under
r harvest in the (tie,
will be scarce here. The same
was sorry to see that
the other ; so that
'both countries, if there was a
there must I,e also a plentiful harvest
such circumstances. 1-1
the great evil which a
therefore a fixed duty could
lirn000d)
plentiful harvest.—(Cheers.) the
have anticipated ,I a. . ,
i ()resent laws WAS to take
1 p l entit
in
possible
whole eff.'t 'f f-I°. country, and hand
from the people of this them over to for.
t,i , The greats advantages
were taken from the ship.
goers. the Right