The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-24 00:00:00

Algiers. Taking all into consideration, he would put it to
the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Liskeard, whether he
would press this question to a second division? He would tell
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that he would not succeed
in establishing a distinction between himself ( Sir R. Peel) and
his Noble Friend. His Noble Friend was desirous of fulfilling
the assurances which he (Sir R. Peel) had given. He (Sir
R. Peel) would not undertake to supersede, in the discharge of
his proper functions, a Minister who, he believed, discharged
his duties with almost unexampled ability and with a desire
to promote the interests of every colony which had been com-
mitted to his charge.
Mr. ROEBUCK explained that he did not mean anything
offensive to the Secretary for the Colonies in the observations
4 he had addressed to the House on Monday evening, nor to the
missionaries, whose cause the Right Hon. Baronet the Mem-
ber for Oxford had espoused.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that before entering on the imme-
diate subject of discussion, he considered it due to make a few
observations respecting the Hon. Gentleman alluded to by the
Learned Member for Bath, the Right Hon. Baronet
opposite, and the Hon. Member for Southampton. He
repeated that he considered it due to bear his testimony to
the efficient and laudable conduct of an officer engaged' in the
public service. His ( Lord John Russell's) experience only
confirmed the testimony which had hitherto been given of his
powerful talents, long experience in all matters of colonial
government, and unrivalled capabilities for conducting the
business of the office in which he was eugaged.-4 Hear, hear.)
No one could deny this, but that eminent person did use his
talents, and his powerful talents, with an undue influence over
certain interests, and was indisputably biassed by the Mis•
sionary Society in this country. He bore willing testi-
mony to the extent of that officer's ability and
integrity, but. he must, at the same time, state
that the views and opinions of Mr. Stephens depended ma-
terially on the caprice or dictation of the Secretary of State.
He thought that this debate had been made too much a question
of debate between the Colonial Secretary and the New Zealand
Company. He would take the sense of the House on the Go-
vernment of New Zealand, which, in his opinion, had led to the
late disasters there. He was in hopes that the New Zealand
Company, having been in communication with the Secretary
of State, that the Company might have at length prevailed on
him to take a more just view of the Company. He thought
that the present was a question upon which it was now desirable
to have the opinion of Ministers. He would inquire
what they had done since 1841 to 1845, to pron.ore
the prosperity of New Zealand? Had that co'ony
made the progress which might have been expected ? Had
anything been done in conformity with their resolutions from
1841 to 1845—he believed nothing whatever. It was said they
sent out instructions for that purpose, but he must say that
thqse instructions fell lamentably short of what ought to be
dens._-( Hear.) His opinion, perhaps, went beyond that of
others as to what ought to be done in the present emer-
gency. He thought that municipal institutions ought to be
generally established, and that the fullest possible system of
representation ought to take place. The council which had
been called had found itself an insufficient representation.
There ought to be some delegations from those municipal.
councils, by which greater influence, greater weight, and
greater strength might be secured fur the purpose of taxa-
tion. That was the principle of the British Consti-
tion. Let them not forget that principle, which
had been said down by a statesman, whose name
must be familiar to readers of British history. A discussion
was related in the appendix to the Life of Mr. Fox, regarding
Representative Government. In 1685, in the latter part of
the reign of Charles 11., a period not remarkable for the free
expression of political opinion, Lord Halifax, in discussing
the question as to whether the charter of New England ought
to be renewed, said that it was repugnant to English
habits that a Government, in which the opinions of the
people were not represented, should impose taxes, and that a
Government had no power to impose a tax on a free people,
which did not arise from representation.—( Hear, hear.) He
said he would not allow any man to take the money out of his
pocket without giving him authority so to do. It was quite
clear that there was a total want of confidence on the part of
the settlers in New Zealand in the present Council
and Government there.—( Hear.) Surely it would not
he said that that had anything to do with the New Zealand
Company. Had not a member of that Company a perfect right
to call the attention of the House of Commons to the state of
affairs there? Was it a matter to which the House ought to
be indifferent, or was his Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. Bul-
ler) so " deeply responsible" because he ventured to say in the
House of Commons that 12,000 persons had settled
in the colony, and that they should endeavour that
those settlers should participate in the benefits of free
institutions. As regarded municipal institutions, the settlers
in New Zealand were not now, in 1845, so far in advance as
they were in 1841. Lord Stanley said that it was at present
impossible to establish representative Government these. He
said that it was impossible to give them the franchise. Unless
they supposed the annihilation of the natives in a very short time,
this argument against representation would have the same
weight for the next century to come.—( Hear.) Here was a
conclusive reason against municipal institutions. The Govern-
ment was very liberal in commending the principle. Nothing,
they said, could be more desirable than a representative
Government. There was nothing that they would not say
in its favour, but there was nothing they would
do for it. The Right lion. Baronet would pronounce a
panegyric on it in the most beautiful terms, and with the most
highly finished periods, but declined to act in accordance with
those opinions. With respect to the question of land, the view
taken by him in 1839 was the view taken in 1831 and
1832 by Lord Ripon, his predecessor in office, from
which he could not well depart. At the former
period New Zealand was acknowledged as a nation,
and its independence was acknowledged by the Crown
of this country. '1 hat might have been a wise or a foolish
step, but they could cot, after this, have claimed land by right
of discovery, and so renounce the act of the Crown.—( Hear,
hear.) He believed his Noble Friend, who, by the
loss of that great man, bears a title which will be
ever memorable in English history—(Loud cheers)—his
Noble Friend had lately said that he did not approve of this
step. The treaty of Waitangai gave the natives possession of
the lands, fisheries, and forests, but the construction he had
put upon that treaty was those lands which the natives en-
joyed or occupied.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable
Baronet said, in reference to the interpretation of the treaty,
that it was a plain matter of faith; but the Right
Honourable Baronet, in endeavouring to support his view by a
comparison with the treaty of Utrecht, gave the latter such a
construction as its framers would never acknowledge. The
Right Honourable Baronet, as well as the Noble Lord at the
head of the Colonial Department, said there might be some
waste land to which the natives might not have claim, but
the greater part they owned as much as the High-
landers of Scotland owned the Highlands there. They
must adopt one of two lines of policy. They must
either treat New Zealand as a civilised country, like the
Cape of Good Hope and other colonies, or as an
uncivilised nation. In New Zealand there were vast
tracts of land which belonged to the Crown, and
which were consequently at its disposal. It was true they might
adopt the plan of Sir James Gipps, and say " We may take
these lands which belong to savages, and use them as we will."
Sir Thomas Wentworth said there was an immense
tract of land, consisting of 100,000 acres, which were pur-
chased at the rate of one-eighth part of a farthing
per acre. Were they then not right in saying that the right
of preemption was in the Crown? No settler could obtain
land from the Crown. If a person wished to go from this
country to Auckiand, and sought a grant from the Crown, he
could not obtain it, as he would be told that
it did not belong to the Crown. With respect to
mediation between the savages of New Zealand and this
country with respect to their lands, parties in that case
would no doubt try their fortunes in New Zealand, but then it
came to this, that this arbitration might not be binding,
although the Noble Lord, who was not easy to satisfy, seemed
to think differently—that the land thus disposed of
might be claimed by different tribes. One would come
and receive a certain sum of money, whilst another would
come and say that the other had no right to receive the money ;
that he could murder the father and mother and brother of
the -chief who had received it ; and that he had a pre-
ferable claim to it, so that those desirous of settling
in the colony would stand but little chance of receiving the
lands under such an award. Persons, instead of saying " They
should like to go out to the colony, and three hundred
more will go out with us—we shall take some capital in the
hope of founding a settlement ;" instead of saying that, they
would go to the Emigration Commissioners and seek for land in
South Australia, or in any other colony than New Zealand.
Captain Grey might say that now he was Governor,
he would treat the natives with the kindness which
they deserved as British subjects, but at the same time telling
them that he would not be trifled into submission. He might
say this, and condemn the policy of the Secretary of State.
The question then before the House was this--whether
the House would act upon its own unbiassed opinion,
reflecting the unbiassed opinion of persons out of doors without
reference to party. He feared that New Zealand would be
sacrificed to the Secretary of State, and that party interests
would be consulted.—( Hear, hear.) But New Zealand—in
spite of the taunts which had been thrown out against
it, the time would come when the Government would act in a
different way towards New Zealand—when they would be un-
willing to sacrifice the interests of that important colony to
prejudice or obstinacy, and when it would be placed on a simi-
lar footing with their other colonies ; but in the meantime they
exposed that colony to the greatest dangers, and if they agreed
that night that nothing else should be done for it, they would
compel those who had its interests at heart—would compel
parties, session after session, to take steps to prevent the people
of New Zealand from being treated as enemies, instead of
friends.—( Hear, hear. )
Mr. G. W. HOPE rose amidst cries for a division, and was
understood to say that Captain Fitzroy was recalled on account
of his conduct towards the natives.

The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it ...
Majority for going into Committee of Supply-66
The House then went into Committee pro forma.
The remaining orders of the day were disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Quarter past One o'clock.

WINDSOIt, JULY 21.—This morning Sir Charle
Yonge, Garter King-at-Arms, arrived at St. George's Chapel
Windsor, and superintended the placing of the banners over their
respective stalls of the following Honourable and Most Noble
Knights of the Garter : —On the Sovereign's side, the Marquis of
Abercorn and Earl Powis; on the Prince's side, Earl de Grey and
Earl Talbot.

IMPUDENT CARRIAGE ROBBERY IN REGENT-
STREET.-Tuesday afternoon an impudent carriage robbery was
committed by some expert thieves in Regent-street. Some ladies
had been making purchases of silks and other valuable articles,
which were in parcels, placed on the seat of an open carriage, and
during the time the ladies were making other purchases in a shop,
some adroit thief opened the carriage door, unobserved by the
coachman or footman, both of whom were on the coach box.
When the ladies returned to the carriage they found, to their dis-
may, their valuable purchases bad been stolen.

LONDON AND WINDSOR DIRECT RAILWAY.—
n Tuesday, a meeting of the Committee, consisting of Captain
Forbes (in the chair), Captain Seymour, Messrs. Clarke, Bed-
borough, Sharman, Barton, Berridge, sen., and Roberts, who were
appointed at a full assemblage of the inhabitants, held at the
Town-hall Windsor, for the purpose of forwarding a memorial to
the Commissioners of Woods and Forests, praying that they would
endeavour to obtain the sanction of the Crown for a railway to
pass over the royal property in the immediate vicinity of Windsor,
took place in the Council Chamber. The letter received from
the Woods and Forests, in answer to the memorial r f the
inhabitants, and to the request of the Committee to be per..
mitted to wait on the Commissioners as a deputation, for the
purpose of more fully detailing the views of the memorialists,
and pointing out the advantages the town would derive by a din-et
railway to London, having been read by the Chairman, in which
it was stated that the Commissioners of Woods and Forests deerd
to recommend her Majesty to give her sanction to the Cron
property in the immediate vicinity of the Castle being interfered
with by a railway, it was resolved unanimously that another letter
should be written to the Board, again urgently soliciting that
they would consent to receive a deputation from the Committee,
and at an early period, in order that they might be put in posses-
sion of every circumstance connected With the proposed undertaking.
An application having been made by a member of the Committee,
on the part of the press, fur a copy of the letter received by the
Chairman (Captain Forbes) from the Woods and Forests, it was
negatived.
•
The pitmen of this district have been holding various
meetings during the week, at all of which the delegates who at-
tended recommended that preparations should be made for another
strike,—Newcastle paper.

-raw
THE FRENCH IN ALGERIA.
The followirg defence for the atrocious massaerQ in
the Dahra appears in the Ilioniteur Alyerien, of the 15th
inqtant

" In order that the public may be able to appreciate
that fatal event, it is necessary that they should know
how important it was, in a political and humane point of
view, to destroy the confidence which the people of the
Dahra and other districts placed in the grottoes of Ouled
Rhia ; all those tribes, considering perfectly secure
those abodes, proved themselves at all times extremely
unruly. Under the Turks, they repeatedly refused to pay
the taxes, and when the cavalry of the Government pre-
sented itself, the entire tribe sought refuge in the
caves and could not be compelled to pay their quota of
the tribute. Abd-el-Lacier himself was treated in a
similar. manner by the Ibehas, in their two revolts
against him. He succeeded, however, in reducing them
by means of his great moral influence, which enabled
him to prevail upon the neighbouring tribes to blockade
them and cut eff their supplies, hut such an expedient
would be inefficient in our hands ; the Arabs do not
serve the Christians as they woull serve Abd-el-Kader.
Colonel Pelissier, after a successful ghazia on the terri-
tory of the Beni Zentes, summoned the Ouled Tthias to
submit. A portion of the tribe reluctantly acquiesced,
but the others having declined doing so, the Colonel was
bliged to attack them. Their warriors, beaten in the
field, withdrew into those famous grottoes, where they
had beforehand placed their wives, children, cattle, and
furniture. Colonel Pelissier invested them,'not however
without the loss of several of his men. When the in-
vestment was complete, he attempted to persuade them
to come out through the medium of some Arabs who had
repaired to his camp. The latter were fired upon and
one of them was killed. Nevertheless, by dint of per-
severance, the Ouled Rhias were prevailed upon to open
a parley, which lasted the whole day, to no effect.
They always replied, " Let the French camp be re-
moved, and we will quit the caves and submit." Colonel
Pelissier repeatedly promised to respect their persons
and property, not to treat them as prisoners of war, and
merely insisted on the surrender of their arms. From
time to time they were told that an abundance of fuel
had been collected to warm them, but they obstinately
refused to capitulate, and night was fast approaching.
Was Colonel Pelissier to be deterred from his purpose by
their obstinacy? The soldiers and chiefs would have loudly
blamed him. The political consequences of such a de-
termination would have been fatal, for the confidence of
the natives in the security of their grottoes would have
increased. Should he attempt to carry theta by force ?
This would have been almost impossible, and, at all
events, he would have lost many men in that subterra-
nean war, a result equally unsatisfactory for humanity.
Should he content himself to blockade them for fifteen
Mays ; he would have lost a most valuable time for the
submission of the Dahra, and could have afforded no
assistance to Col. St. Arnaud, who was also operating in
that district. After consulting awhile he determined
to recur to the extremity suggested to him by the
Governor-General, in a case of such emergency. A
number of faggots were thrown from above into the
entrance of the cave, which were afterwards s, t
on fire. At one o'clock in the morning Col. Pelissier,
moved by pity, caused the fire to be extinguished, but,
unfortunately, it was too late, the catastrophe had oc-
curred. This cruel event, which afflicts us all and strikes
our imagination by its novelty in the annals of war, is
not, in reality, more barbarous than many other prac-
tices in European warfare, which are not reproved, be-
cause of their being regarded as indispensable evils.
War, policy, and even humanity require that recourse
be had to every means, however energetic they may be,
to hasten its termination as speedily as possible. This
is also serving the interests of philanthropy ; for wars.
protracted by the use of feeble means, are the most
ruinous and the most destructive of human life. Those
incontestable principles once admitted, we ask if the
siege of the grottoes is more cruel than the bom-
barding and famishing of the entire population of the
strong towns in Europe. It is apprehended that the
catastrophe of the Ouled Rhia will fill the hearts-of the
natives with a deep hatred for us. The Arabs will cer-
tainly feel hatred towards us: that feeling has always
i6ted, and is likely to last much longer. This event
will not increase it much; but it will inspire them with
a salutary terror, which will be equally favourable to
the victor and the ♦anquished. The Arabs now per-
ceivieg that they must submit to the French yoke, that
they possess no longer any secure retreat, will lay down
the:r arms and quietly employ themselves in agricultu-
ral and comm-rcial pursuits, which will soon repair the
evils of war. If, on the contrary, they had merely ex-
perienced an easy repression, in accord with the in-
judicious ideas of philanthropists, they would be often
tempted to revolt, in order to recover their indepen-
dence, and those repeated insurrections would be at-
tended for them with disastrous consequences, which
weuld render their situation much more cruel than it is
at present, in consequence of the teKrible blow with
which they have been visited. It has inflicted upon
them a serious injury, it is true; but its effects are
merely momentary.
"The interests of the victorious army, and of the en-
tire of Franc have also their rights. If, by out forbear-
ance, we suffer the spirit of revolt to endure, we shall
often be compelled to repress, and conseepiently to.sateri-
fiee the lives of a greater number of soldiers and more
money than if, from the onset, we had made an example.
To follow such it course would not be serving the inte-
rests of humanity and philanthropy. Energetic reps es-
sions produce the same results in all countries, whether
in ordinary warfare; chit wars, or eateutes. It is prefer-
ab'e, for the sake of society and humanity, to strike one
decisive blow, than to be obliged to strike often."

EXTRAORDINARY SCENE,
ROCHESTER, JULY 22.—Yesterday the Rev. George
Davis, Captain Thos. Baker, and James Smith, Esq ,
County Magistrates, assembled in Petty Sessions, when
the case of Henry WOolmer, alias Spriggs, who appeared
on a charge of cruelly ill-treating a dog- on the 7th inst.
at Hailing, near Rochester, the property of Mr. Solomon
Brice, lime-burner, was gone into. The defendant was
agamekeeper to the Rev. Mr. Formby, of Windsbury, one
of the County Magistrates of this division, who tcolc his
seat on the bench. The defendant, in conjunction with
another um, named John Gammon, had been previously
served with an information . for the same offence, and
were to have appeared on Friday last to answer the
charge. Gammon did appear, and was fined 205., and
costs 15s. 6d. The defendant did not appear, as he was
summoned in a wrong name, and consequently another
summons was issued in another name, and on the de-
fendant being called on to plead,
'I he Rev. George Davis, the Chairman, with a degree
of warmth of expression, said to the defendant, " What
is your name?" Answer—Woolmer.
Did you ever go by the name of Spriggs ? Answer
—My name is Woolmer.
-The Rev. Chairman—Answer my question, Sir, and
don't treat the magistrates with impertinence.
The Rev. Mr. Formby rose, and said, " I think the
man has given a very proper answer, and submit that he
is not to be treated with such harshness. He is here to
answer a complainL"

The Rev. Chairman, finding himself thus interrupted,
took his hat and said he should leave the bench.
The Rev. Mr. Formby observed, the sooner the better.
Captain Baker told Mr. Formby that it was his
opinion, as well as his brother magistrate's, Mr. Smith's,
that his observations were extremely discourteous and
uncalled for towards their worthy Chairman, who had
tilled the situation of Chairman of this Bench for the
last twenty years, and considered that Mr. Formby
ought in justice to express regret for what he had done.
This Mr. Formby refused. Mr. Baker remarked that
during the twenty years' servitude of their Chairman
he had given great satisfaction. This Mr. Formby
doubted, for he had heard with deep regret that in
almost every case brought to this office the Rev. Chair-
man had most shamefully browbeaten both men and
women. When a man or woman came to the Court
the it fe:lings were naturally embarrassed, being strangers
to the course of law; and because of that were they to be
treated with insult.

Captain Baker inquired of the Rev. Mr. Formby
whether he intended to sit on the bench as a magistrate
in the case, because that would depend on their Rev.
Chairman returning to, the Court.
The Rev. Mr. Formby said he did not intend to sit as
a magistrate. He had employed Mr. Prall, the solicitor,
to attend on his servant's behalf ; and the cause that in-
duced him to make a remark on the conduct of the Chair-
man, was the manner in which he spoke to his servant,
and was compelled to say that he would not have spoken
with that harshness to a dog.
After several angry expressions had passed between
the magistrates, impugning each other's characters as
gentlemen, the Rev. Chairman entered the Court again,
when another animated discussion ensued between the
bench and the solicitor, Mr. Prall, who contended that
the Court was not in a condition to proceed with the
case, and said he should advise his client to leave the
Court at once, the magistrates contending that, as the
defendant was before the Court, they dared him to leave
it. On this the Rev. Mr. Formby rose from his seat and
took his servant out of the Court, and they were followed
by the solicitor,
The ease, without the defendant's appearance, was
gone into, and as there was not sufficient proof to sup-
port the information, the case was dismissed.

ELOPEMENT.—On Wednesday a young lady and it
matrimonial
it appeals, was entertained of the
young gentleman,
vicinity ofLondon,
wheolosepedrelfarotimonßs
iacnhdmofrnidenedns reside in
existence of any attachment between them,
,until they dis-
til() party of which they were members, after
appeared from
•
dinner. The occasion selectedby them for showing their
adventure. No suspicion,
preference of each other was that of a water entertainment.
Soon after the boat, in which were congregated twenty-three
or twenty-four individuals, arrived at Richmond, the party
dined very luxuriously, and it was agreed that they should
walk about the grounds near which their vessel was moored,
and assemble at a stated period to finish the day's entertain-
ment. At the appointed hour all the company wore present,
except the young persons to whom we have alluded, and rot a
syllable was heard about them down to the arrival of the rest
in London.

The Gazette of the Senate of St. Petersburgh
publishes an Imperial Ukase relative to the rights of hereditary or
personal nobility acquired by the service of military and civil offices
The ukase places certain restrictions on the existing privileges with
a view of checking the enormous increase of the class of nobility,
but maintains the principle of elevation.

COMPETITION IN WILD BEASTS.—Wombwell's
and Hylton's wild beast caravans having pitched themselves on the
Green at Glasgow during the fair, within a short distanve of each
other, competition between the rival showmen induced them to re•
duce the price of admission to one penny, and one of Hylton's
outside orators became 'so powerful In his harangues, and so in-
vidious in his comparisons, that he was called before the magis.
trates on Friday, and was made to pay I Os. 6d. for his lv,ipassioned
eloquence.
COPYDOLDS.—The fourth report of the Copyhold
Commission has just been presented to Parliament,
It states
there has been a considerable, and it is a gradually
e'Atending, in-
crease both in the number of enfranchisements and
the value of
the land enfranchised. The principal enfranchiser vents have taken
place in the ecclesiastical manors. Since the
last report of the
Commission was presented 36 enfranchisement have taken place.