The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-13 00:00:00

the Bill was introduced in 1842, the miners themselves
desired to be placed under schedule A, and the
same principle was adopted in all former
Bills. He was afraid, therefore, to swerve now from
this established rule, or he would have no objection
to accede to the amendment of the Hon. Member.

Mr. FOSTER said the Right Hon. Gentleman had
urged no argument against his proposition. He did
not wish to compel miners to claim under schedule
D, but to give them the option of doing so.
The clause was then read a second time.

Sir R. 11. INGLIS did not call the attention of
her Majesty's Ministers to the motion he had upon
the paper with a view of obtaining their concession
now, but with a view to obtaining their sanction at
some future period to the principle he wished to lay
clown. If the present were a time of war he would
not, for one moment, offer any obstacle to the con-
tinuation of the measure in its present form, but as
they were now at peace with nearly all the world,
this objection could not be raised. Every day's ex-
perience convinced him that the tax was not to be
limited to three years ; but, on the contrary, it
was likely to be made perpetual, and under
such circumstances he was desirous to modify
the measure in such a way as to make it more en-
durable. If, therefore, he could not carry his amend-
ment, he wished to put on record, for the guidance
of their successors, an expression of opinion that some
at least of the present House of Commons were
favourable to his proposal. He believed he had stated,'
on a former occasion, that numerous instances had
come to his knowledge where clerks and others, whose
incomes were 1501., had got their employers to reduce
their salaries, to enable them to evade payment of the
income-tax. By this means a man, whose salary was
1501. was reduced to 1491., thus saved 31. 10s. a year,
He wished, therefore, to save his fellow-countrymen
from this temptation to commit fraud, as well as from
suffering actual distress, which had in some cases re-
sulted from the tax. They were told that the revenue
would suffer a loss of one million sterling, if the
House adopted his proposition. He conceived this
sum was considerably overstated, but in order to
meet this objection, he had thought it advisable
to modify the proposition of which he had
given notice, by limiting its operation to those
classes who were peculiarly affected by the pre-
sent tax. Instead, therefore, of the notice which
stood on the printed paper, he wished to substitute the
following:—" Provided always that the said rates
and duties shall not be assessed or taken upon any in-
come whatever, excepting with respect to the sum by ,
which such income shall exceed 150/." Now this '
would meet many cases where the tax pressed with
severity. For instance, there were in this country
5,489 benefices, varying from 1501. to 5001., who
would derive considerable benefit from the introduc-
tion 'of such a provision.—(Hear, hear.) He knew
what the result of a division would be, but to avoid
being taunted by any future Chancellor of the Exche-
quer that the measure in its present form had been
fully sanctioned by the House, he felt called upon to
put it to the vote.—(Hear.)
Mr. SPOONER seconded the amendment.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the question involved a general principle which could
not be settled by the operation of the tax upon one
particular class. He thought he should be able to
show his Hon. Friend that his proposition was im
practicable, and that it would not remove the present
facilities for evading the tax. His Hon. Friend said a
clerk who had 1501. a year could get his employer
to reduce his salary to 1491., and thus evade
the tax. But would his Honourable Friend's
amendment remove this objection? Could not
a man who had an income of 5001. reduce it to
4991. ?—(Hear, hear.) Surely, then, the amendment
was objectionable in this particular. But his Hon.
Friend's propssition was open to other objections.
A man might have an income from land, amounting
to 5001. in OTIO part of the country, and an interest
to the same amount in some railway company in
another part of the country, and thus he would have
an opportunity of availing himself of his Hon.
Friend's amendment in two instances. He might
claim to deduct 1501. from his 5001. arising out of
land in Yorkshire, and claim the same exemption on
his railway interest in Sussex.—(Hear.) Unless,
therefore, they introduced some-system of combined
examination to meet these particular cases, the amend-
ment would produce no good, and for this reason it
was his duty to resist the proposition.
After a few words from Sir W. CLAY,
The House divided, when there appeared—
For the amendment 25
Against it 59
Majority against the amendment —34
On the re- admission of strangers to the gallery, we
found

Sir W. CLAY addressing the House. He said,
that in all direct taxation there was much rudeness,
roughness, and unpleasantness mixed up. He gave
the Right lion. Baronet credit for showing good rea-
sons against the several amendments that had been
proposed, inasmuch as they would all be attended with
hardship and inequality. But the Right Hon. Baro
net's answers proved that hardship and inequality were
inseparable from the tax. There were many theore-
tical arguments in favour of direct taxation ; but
there was this advantage in indirect taxation, that it
left every man to a certain degree the master of his
taxation. All indirect taxation prea-ed upon expenses,
and many of the assessed taxes pressed wholly on
luxuries. But the income-tax was a tax upon
prudence ; and he did not agree with the saying that
the miser was the fittest person to be taxed. The
miser was the greatest benefactor of society.—(A
laugh.) It was the miser that carried out all your
great improvements.—(Oh, oh, and laughter.) The
man who kept a pack of fox hounds was no bene-
factor of the community. The man who benefited
society was he that did not spend his money in
luxury, but spared it, and ap,elied his savings to
public improvernenta. (Cries of " Oh, oh," and
" That is not a miner.") He (Mr. Clay) did not
wish the tax to be extended to Ireland, but all the
arguments against that extension applied to the im-
position of the tax in this country. He would not
detain the House by offering unavailing opposition,
but he could not allow the Bill to pass without enter-
ing his protest against it.
Sir R. PEEL thanked the Hen. Gentleman for the
tone ill which he had expressed his opinions, and for
not persisting in an unavailing opposition, although
the Hon. Gentleman had given the Bill his parting
malediction.—(A laugh.) He did not think it was
a proper time, at this stage of the Biil, to enter
into the question of direct and indirect taxa-
tion. He would only say that much must depend
upon tha circumstances of the country to be taxed.
But he must ray that if there were in any country
taxes which pressed upon industry, and at the same
time a palpable tendency to accumulate, then pro-
perty might he directly taxed.—(llear, hear.) But
in a country like the United States, where there was
but little accumulation, lie thought it might be well
to adhere to indirect taxation. He must know all the
circumstances of a country before he could give an
opinion. But of this he was convinced, that if a tax
on property were to be imposed, it should be on
income, and not upon accumulated capital. Nothing
could be more dangerous than to tax accumulated
capital.—(Hear, hear.) It would be a check to that
feeling which led men to endure present toil for the
sake of future serenity and enjoyment ; and he be-
lieved there was great truth in what Dr. .Johnson said,
that a man
.could not be more innocently employed
than in accumulating money.—(A laugh.) Such a
tax would derenge accumulation, and tend to transfer
capital to other countries. At the same time he
would confess that he thought the greatest check to
the improvident application of the income-tax was the
inequality of its operation.—(Hear, hear.) A tax
on accumulation would not easily be made
productive, as capital would be transferred to other
countries. He was not now going into the question
as to fixed incomes and floating incomes.—(Hear.)
Some Gentlemen had said that they could show how
he could raise three or four millions. Very well.
But let them be upon those (the Treasury) benches,
and let him see how they would propose their taxes—
(Laughter.) Other gentlemen asked why was not
the tax extended to Ireland ? But why not extend
other taxes to Ireland ? Why not extend the soap-
tax, for the first time, to that part of the kingdom,
where it was most desirable to encourage the use of
soap.—(Laughter.) They were making a great, and,
he would say, a bold experiment in their fiscal
system, and the fact was that the country
was of opinion that the present was a time
when the property of manufacturers, and the condi-
tion of the working-classes rendered the experiment
desirable and practicable.—(Hear, hear.) Those
upon whom the income-tax pressed were willing to
bear the burthen for the sake of an experiment, hav-
ing for its object to better the condition of those
below them, as it was the earnest desire of the
affluent classes to do.—Hear, hear.) Their objec-
tion to the tax was as great as could be, and the
reason of their acquiescence was an honour to them
and to the country. He (Sir Robert Peel) would
not contemplate the discussion which was likely to
arise when the renewal of the tax came again before
the House.—(A laugh.) The House would not ex-
pect him to say now what course he might take upon
that future occasion. He had stated already the pre-
parations which were going on in the glass trade.—
(Hear.) Suppose, then, the thousands who were now
unemployed—and other thousands—should find em-
ployment? Suppose the glass manufacture of this
country should come into competition with Belgium
and Bohemia=might not the country, on the same
ground as it now acquiesced in the • income-tax, be
inclined to try further the application of direct taxa-
tion, if not exactly in this shape Was it therefore
to be expected that he should now pledge himself to
the repeal of the tax in three years ?—and he said
this without seeking any reserve.—(Hear, hear.)
The affluent classes in this country willingly acqui-
esced in the tax, for the sake of an experiment which
had for its object the relief of those who most stood