Star.
London, England, 1830-02-23 00:00:00

The committee then divided, and the numbers were—
For the amendment, 38 I Against it, 122 j Majority, 81.
The resolution was then agreed to.
The next resolution was then proposed—namely, that the
saw of 106,8301. 15s. 3d. be granted for the allowances of the prin-
cipal officers in the several public departments of Great Britain and
Ireland, and for the payment of their deputies, clerks, and contin.
gent expenses for the year 1830.
31r. HUME pressed upon the right hon. gentleman opposite the
necessity of reducing the expenses of the Paymaster-General's-
office. The business of that office might be transacted for 5,0001.
if a proper system were adopted. He observed that the Judge Ad-
vocate's salary had been increased in 1817 on account of the large
number of corps then kept up ; upon the same principle his salary
should now be diminished, in proportion to the reduction which had
taken place in the number of corps. Ile thought that by adopting
a better system the vote now proposed might be reduced 40,0001.
but be would content himself with moving, as an amendment, that
it be reduced to the extent of 10,0004 only.
Mr. CALCRAFT said that the office which he bad the honour
to hold was a most ancient one. Though a very laborious one, yet
it was one of great trust and responsibility. He had various duties
to perform which occupied a considerable portion of his time._
Amongst the rest, he presided at the board at Chelsea Hospital;
and so constant was his attendance there, that since the prorogation
of Parliament he had not had a single spare week to himself. The
office at the present moment stood lower than at the time of Mr.
Burke's great refomi; for then there two paymasters and two depu.
ties. It was painful for any man to talk of himself ; but be was com-
pelled to say, that he discharged the duties of his office, he was sure,
conscientiously, and he hoped, diligently. The house ought to be
cautious in meddling with an arrangement which had secured such
fidelity of service in the establishment of the pay office.
Sir H. PARNELL said, that the right hon. gentleman had
made out no case to rebut the charge advanced by the finance eons-
mittee—namely, that the office which he held was a sinecure office.
The right lion. gentleman's deputy told the committee that he exe-
cuted all the duties of his principal's office. It was, in hie opinion,
a serious objection to the establishment that the officers in it pos-
sessed too uncontrolled a command over the public money. The
right honourable gentleman's reference to the period when
there were two paymasters, was a common-place fallacy of
justifying an existing abuse by the example of one still
greater. lie was surprised to hear the honourable gen-
tleman say he would postpone the consideration of the question
whether the business of his office could be better conducted than it
was at present. lie thought that this was the time for considering
that question. He hoped that ministers would not call upon the
house to agree to the vote now before them next year. He was of
opinion that the duties of the Treasurer of the Navy, the Treasurer
of the Ordnance, and the Paymaster of the Forces, which were now
paid at the rate of 55,000'. a year, might be effectually performed
fer one.third of that sum.

Mr. CALCRAF"r denied that the officers In this department had
unlimited control of the public money.
Mr. BIABERLY said, If he recollected rightly, the right hon.
grstietran, when he sat on the other aide of tne house, disapproved
the office which he now held. (a laugh.) iVith respect to the
manner in which the business of the office was conducted, he begged
to remind the committee that Mr. Sergeant in his evidence before
the tinarce comnittee, said, that he had it in his power to go away
with front 200,0001. to 250,000/. and the loss could not be dis-
covered in less than a week.
Mr. CA LCRAFT denied that he had ever spoken In disapproba-
tion of the office which he now held.
Mr. 31ABERLY said, he had spoken from recollection only.
Mr. CA WEAK(' said that all the accounts connected with his
office had been submitted to the inspection of Mr. Abbott and two
other gentlemen appointed to inquire into the public establishments,
who were perfectly satisfied with their correctness. These was no
establishment in which so much justice was dune to the public in
:re mode in which its business was transacted.
Mr. MAIIERLY said the right hon. gentleman should assume
no !malt for submitting the accounts of his department to the in.
'l'eetiun of Mr. Abbott, for he was obliged to do so.
M. CALCHAFT denied his having claimed merit on that
e-ound.
sir H. IMRE/INC:it; stated, that in justice to his right hon.
the Payrnauer of the Forces, that as Chairman of the
Board, for the payment of the out-pensions, amounting to
:.•_'31.0011 amounted to 32 in the year, exclusive of the meeting
es: the board art Chelsea Hospital, which made the number of meet.
gi his right hon. friend was obliged to attend amount to O,
a; -1 he had known his right lion. frieud fretiusntly come from the
:wintry, where he had been foe two or three tLys, to attend throe
ar•rws. These duties, it should be recollected, were exclusive of
' us. :inch he had to discharge tor Paymaster of the forces.
1 1V SON wished to correct the random mansion of the
O' ilk tuber opposite.(Mr. 31abetly) with respect to Illerfistsjeent's
ottence before the finance committee. Mr.. Salaam's stamen
v 44, that if two or three other officers connived with hint he might
be able to draw 200,000/. or 300,001.0. without befog dlicoverod for
the space of 24 hours. But the very others whom connivance,
according to that evidence it would be memory ro -command, acted
as checks against the possibility of such an =moos, in a public
estaWishment.
Mr. MABE it VII' had made no random asairdon regarding Mt
Sergeant's evidence. Ho had stated it according to dew hem of his
rccolhation, and he still conceived be had stated it correctly, not.
'thhstitnding the assertion of the hon. gentieelmn....Thw.evidence
Lail in fact, when given before the finence tionarnittoas made setiboa
impression, that the Chancellor of the Aixcheeptes upon bits
1,) say that he should forthwith take some steps to make 4he.publit
more secure in future.
The CHANCELLOR of the E.XCHEQUER said Abet, on
both sides ot the house they were speaking iTOISI their recollection's*
to the evidence, and that diesels's allowances illonlvl.be mutually mule. He would agree with the' hon. member Opllpattas That
wind b
m'Pressiou made upon his (the. Chlincellat of Ine:lltheilstesi
tint y the evidence of Serous before, the nomeninse,, twos
the
m public, money which could be drawn as. slll......liargraut
n eted , was not sufficiently secured, and y,a
Trraeurp . joint was passed, which put k tifiesually oar et.
* •
lrerelt
et Poi
it was dwidual to thaw money as ;Italgeentitadeteoesibed t 'for by #
required that all draughts for minty sktittid fie signed by twit I
Arent of the Treasury ; the Chancellor of the Eschequer had al.