The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-18 00:00:00

SPORTING.

A new and Tac:ous edifice is now in the course of erection
for the accommodation of the ul- seri bers at Tattersall's; it is
on the left of the yard, and will be ready by the first Monday
after Gmdwood races.

On Saturday last the Royal stag hounds cancluded their
hunting season, uhieh commenced on the 2d of November.

THEATRICAL. .
Donizetti's opera of d'Amore, was performed on
Saturday at her Majesty's Theatre. Lablache acted the Doctor,
Dulcamara, for the first time this season, Ronconi the Ser-
jeant Beleore, and Persiani the Adina, which was both beauti.
ful and b;illiant. Her Majesty was present.

~~ r. ~ ..

THE SUN, LONDON, MONDA EV ENING, APRI L 18, 1412.

THE ROE HAMPTON
M 1) ER.

BOW-STREET.-(THIS DAY.)

In consequence of information having reached London last
night that Daniel Good, for whose apprehension the Coroner's
warrant had been i.sued, on the charge of wilful murder, had
been apprehended, and woubl be examined to-day at this office,
the whole of Bow-street was crowded, and represented a sea of
human beings, all anxious to catch a glimpse of the wretched
man ; every avenue leatting to the Court was crowded to ex-
cess. At ten o'clock Good was conveyed fiom the station-
house to the Police Court, in charge of a strong body of police
of the F division. The moment be was recognised, a shout
was set up so wild and so fierce as to snake the very flesh
creep; we never saw the popular indignation so fiercely ex-
pressed, and, as one of the constables informed us, he believed
they would have torn him in pieces if they could have got at
him. •

( At this time the Court was quite crowded, and was swarm-
ing with penny-a-liners ; and some persons having obtained
access to the reporters' box, Mr. If all, though applied to, re-
fused to allow oar repenter to take his usual place.)
'I he night charges having been disposed ot,
Daniel Good was placed at the bar, charged with the wil-
ful murder of Jane Jones, a:ia3 Geod.
The prisoner is a good-looking, _Ark clan, rather under the
aced height, ei petty well efff ere the description given
of him in the flue and Cry. He was dressed in a white fus-
Cain jacket and trowsers, and ;smeared exceedingly calm and
apparently indifferent, though he listened with great attention
to the evidence adduced against him.
On the bench, beside Mr. Hall, was Lord Montfort, one
of the Sher ifs of the City of London, and othe: gentlemen.
On being asked his name by the Magistrates' (leek, the
prisoner replied immediately, and, a 3 we thought, somewhat
inadvertently, " Daniel Good.'
The first'wituess called was—
Pulite Constable Gardner, V 279, who (leveed as fol-
lows: About a quarter to nine o'clock I was on duty in High-
street, Wandsworth. - From information which I received, I
went in company with two lads to the house of Mr. Shiells, in
Putney Palk-lane, 1 rang the door bell, and the footman an-
swt red it. 1 asked if the coachman was at home, he directed
me to the stable, where I went. 1 told one of the lads, named
Speed, to ring the bell. Ihe coachman answered it. Speen
asked for the coachman, and the prisoner said, " I am the
coachman." 1 then went up to him and told him that I had
come to take him in cus:edy en a char go of stealieg a pa'r of
• black trousers. Prisoner said " Yes, 1 bought a pair of bree-
ches from Mr. Columbine, and did not pay for• them." He
pulled out his purse, and said, " You cant ke the money to
rum." I told him I could not take the money, as that had
nothing to do with the charge I had come upon. Prisoner
said, " Oh, very well, then I'll go to Wandsworth and settle
ir." I asked the prisoner if he would allow me to look
over the stable. He said " Yes;" and aelowed me to go in.
I went in with the two lads who were with me. I
desired one of the lads 'to stand by Geed whilst I
made the search. I searched the chaise and different parts of
the buildings, but found nothing. As I went into the stable
in company with Houghton; and some others, I searched various
parts, and still found nothing. Whilst searching the corn-bins
the prisoner said, " We will go to Wandsworth, and have it
sett.ed." I sal:!, " No, I will not go tilt I have made a diligent
se arch." I then desired one of the lads to come and hell, me.
Prisoner then walked to the bottom stall, and I followed him
over. I saw him move some hay from one side of the stades)
the other. 1 told him not to do that, but to go and stand by
Speed. I then moved two trusses of hay from the place to
which he had moved it and some louse hay. I discovered some-
thing underneath the hay. I said, " What is this? here's a
goose." I then heard the stable-door shut, and on looking
round saw the prisoner was gone. 1 ran to the door, and found
that it was locked. Speed took a pitch fork, and endeivoured
to force the doer open. I then returned to the stall, to continue
the search, and Mr. Houghton came with me. I removed some
more hay, and saw some flesh, whicli I thought wasa sheep. One
of the lads said it was a human leg. Speed turned it over
when I saw that it was the trunk of a human being. The
legs were cut off as high up as the hips; the arms were cut off
at the shoulders ; the head was severed at the lower part of the
neck, and the abdomen was ripped open to the extent of
fi.tecn inches in leng h. We then forced open the door, and 1
sent the younger lad to give information to all the police that
he could see in the neighbourhood. I remainec: with the body.
About half an hour after police-constable V 92, came up;
I desired him to go and inform the division of the circumstance.
Another policeman soon after came up, and I desired him to
go and inform Mr. Busain, the Inspector. 1 remained till the
Inspector arrived, and by his orders assisted in a more minute
search. In the third sta.! I found a mattress and two blankets
tolled up, concealed under some straw. I unrolled the mat-
tress and found a large stain as of urine upon it. I made no
further search. I omitted to say that I saw a small quantity of
blood on the lay near where I found the trunk.
Mr. Hate to the prisoner—lf you wish to put any question
te the officer you are at hberty to do as? Prissner—l have no
question.
Robert Speed was next examined.—He raid I live in High-
street, Wandsworth. lam to the employ of Mr. Cooper, the
grocer. On the 6th of April I went to Mr. Shiells' house in
cempany with the last witness. I went with him into the
stable, and assisted him to search it. The officer left the pri-
soner in my charge in the stable. As the policeman was
searching he called out, " What's this." I made a step to-
wards the place and the prisoner immediately daited off' and
locked the door after him. We tried to break open the door ;
but, not succeeding, we returned to the stall and continued
the search. I saw the constable find the body of a female. I
saw no bleed. It was very dark, as we only had a lanthoin to
search by. I afterwards was present when the mattrase and
blanket were found. I have not known the prisoner long, but
had seen him before.
Prisoner had no questions to put to this witness.
Thomas Houghton deposed—l knew the prisoner before.
Prisoner had lived in Mr. Shiells' house upwards of two years.
I was Presents during the search ; but I know nothing of the
female whose body was found. I do not know, of my own
knowledge, that the prisoner occupied any part of the stable.
Mr. HALL said it was unnecessary te take any more evi-
dence eel tire to searching the stable and finding the body.
Thomas Bicknell, superin'endent of the Vi andsworth police,
deposed that on the night of the 6th April, he went to the
stables of Mr. Shiells on being sent for by the officer, the first
witness. He proceeded to the harntss-room—there was a
fire-place in the room. Two officers searched amongst the
ashes, and they found a quantity of human bones. The bones
were shown to witness, but he did not see them taken out of
the ashes. The trunk of the deceased remained in the cus-
tody of the officer until after the inquest.
Thomas Houghton, being sworn, said he was gardener at
Mr. Shiells'. The prisoner was coachman there. Witness
had lived at Mr. Shiells two years. After the trunk
had been found witness and the bilker went into
the harness-room. They all entered together. Witness saw
the officer examine the ashes in the fire-place. Some
of the bones appeared to witness to be hones of the skull and
knee. The police-officer took possession of the bones. Nobody
but the coachman (the prisoner) had access to that room. He
always locked the door and kept the key. The fire Was laid
with wood and coke. Witness Slept about fifty yards from
the chimney of the harness-room, and there
the harness-room. The day before this discovery, a great
smoke issued from
was a strong smell as if singing horse flesh. Witness had seen
a female in the stable-yard once, but he did n t know who she
was, and never saw her efterwartis,
Elizabeth Crispin deposed that she had knotrii the prisbter
for two years, She resided at SOUth-street, Manchester.
square. Witness lived in the same house as Mrs. Good. At
the inquest on the body of the deceased some clothes were pro-
duced to witness, and she recognised them as having belonged
to Mrs. Good. Had seen Mrs. fated last en the Scl of Aprils
not since. She left the house on that day; brit she did nbt
leave with the prisoner. Mrs. Good had dyed in the house
two years, and she never slept out of the house before the 3d of
April. A bonnet was produced at the inquest, which witness
could swear to as the property of Mrs: Goodt Withess drift!
not say if the deceased had Oh that bit het when she went out.
Ihe neat day brit one the prisoner called, and he had a little
boy with him, Witness asked him if that wee his
little bey, and he said it was hot, ihtl he said 1113 boy wks In the
country with his rhitster. The prisoner said they were to have
a ball at the house that night.
Lydia Susan Butcher deposed that she resided at Woolwich.
She knew the prisoner. had known him Mr softie tsbark £3.11
not know the temele telth tekliled in South-street, and went by
the stern* of Gland. The prisoner came to Woolwich on last
Wednesday wee'e. It was between three and four o'clock in
the afternoon. He did not remain long, and whets he left he
said lie was going to Putney. He to It it child that
was living with witness away t'Ath Illms The prisoner bretight
with him k. Shawl, a bonnet, and fur tippet, and a pair of
boots. The prisoner said he had brought these things as a
present fur witness. He told her that hit vsPe had died four
years ago, and that the things had belonged to hsar. He said
he had some more, anti he W•billd bring theill another time.
The artifelet ranained in the possession of witness, till an officer
came to inquire about the pr.soner, on the 7th, which was the
day after the prisoner had been there. Witness told the officer
that the prisoner had been there the day before, and she des
livered to the officer all the articles the prisoner had left. The
officer took possession of them, and related to witness what had
occurred. [The witness wept bitterly during the whole time
• she was giving her evidence:]
James Parry, of the R division of police, deposed that he
went to make inquiry of the last witness at her father's house,
in Woolwich. Witness inquired if the prisoner had been thstre,
and she said he had, and that he had left something. The ar-
ticles v(ere produced) end the Witness took possession of them,
and they had been in his custody ever since. ( Witness here
produced the articles.) The articles were as described by the
last witness. On the Saturday following witness went to
South-street to get the articles identified. They were iden-
tified by witness, Mrs. Crispin.
Lydia Butcher was re-called—The prisoper skid he had a
mangle in Saute-street. He told the s, itnesa to go to South-
street and get the mangle and keep it. He said it was his
wife's mangle. He gave witness a key of the room in which
the mangle was, in South-street,
Mrs. Crispin re-called—Could swear to the bonnet pros
duced, togetaer with the boots They were the property of
Jane Jones, otherwise Jane Good. She always passed by the
name of Good. She and the prisoner lived its man Ind wife.
She was a middle sited woman. The prisoner used to come to
visit her generally early in the morning, as early as five o'clock.
Witness did not see her leave the house on the 3d of April,
but knew that the deceased I,ft about twelve o'clock.
The bonnet produced had been worn by Mrs. Good fbr the last
year and a half. Never tnew the deceased to have been ab-
sent one night before the 3d April. When she went out on
that day she said to the boss Good bye, God bless you ; take
care of yourself." She was about 44 years of age, and she
never had had any children. The mangle spoken of by the last
witness belonged to Mrs. Jones.
Fanny Hester
deposed that she resided at East-bridge. On
the 3d April the pr ironer and a woman came to witness's house.
The prisoner said the woman was his sister. They came to
tea. The woman Ind a pair of boots on similar to those pro-
duced. 'This was about half-past. four. The woman appeared
to be upwards of forty. The prisoner said he was
anxious to get back to Isis master, and the woman was
to proceed to London. The prisoner called again on
the Tuesday, and had a litee boy with hnu. Ho
wished the witness to Like charge of the child fora few days,
which she consented to do. The boy was left with witness
The boy went away with a woman next day, and witness has
not seen him since. During the Sunday the prisoner and the
female quarrelled. The name of Sarah Butcher was men-
tioncd, and the female seemed very much hurt at hearing the
name mentioned.

Saran Young deposed that she resided in South-street,
Manchester-square. he did not know the prisoner, but was
acquainted H ith the female, who passed as his wife. The fe-
male asked witness to go fur the child to East Lodge.
'1 he Inspector, in auswer to a question from 31r. Hall, said
he hal or ly ihe persons who took the prisoner into custody at
present in attendance.
Mr. HALL—Have you no others before them ? Inspector—
' Yes ; there are about 14 or 15 more, but it mill take some
time to get them together,.
Mr. HALL—'hen
Inspector—Yes; do.do you wish the prisoner to be remanded?
Mr. HALL then directed the Clerk to read over the evi
dence taken to the prisoner.
Clerk—Pi ismer attend to the evi(lence I am about to read.
'thecvid..pe: • a 1:- :earl ever to the pti,on.•:,l‘holis!e, eel

• • 1
LuglG.::l22 .Ic,
Clarke, who keeps the house No. 18, Scuth-street, Man-

chester-square, stepped forward, but she prey corroborated the
testimony of the witness Crispin. .
Air. HALL then addressed the prisoner,. and said—You are
not found to say anything, but what you do say will be taken
down, and may be used against you at your trial. It is now
pr' posed to remand you till Thursday next ; if ou wish to
make any observation upon that application why I should not
remand you, I will hear you.
The prisoner said he had no:hing to say, and the further hear-
ing f the case was postponed till Thursday next.
We think it right again to notice the conduct of the sitting
Magistrate. It has already been obse.ved that our Reporters
were refused the tuna] place allotted to the members of the
Press. Mr. Hall issued an order to the Usher to admit the
Reporters to the Times and the Morning Herald to the table
usually occupied by attorneys. They were admitted, and
there was plenty of room at the table for others.; but our re-
porters, together with reporters for several other journals, were
told that they must stand amongst the crowd, and if they de-
murred they would be turned out. Shortly after this several
private friends of the clerks were admitted to the places that
were vacant.]

make that Speech with which she had opened the last Session
cf Parliament, in which, after stating the necessity
that existed for raising the amount of the public re-
veeue, her Majesty directed Parliament to consider whether
revenue could not be raised in the manner least burdensome to
the people, by a recnnsitimaticn of the import duties, and of the
duties cn corn—after haying, as aplinister of the Crown,
advised her Majesty to deliver that speech, he could not object
to the principles on which it hail beer proposed to effect
the present changes. But if the Honourable Gentlemen
opposite had, before the dissolution of the last Parliament,
made known the principles on which-they intended to act—
if they had la,t year stated the .principles they intended so
pursue, he thought the proposal of those changes would not
have produced the panic which he new understood existed in
many parts of the country on the subject.—(Cheerse) It
would have been perfectly possible for them to have stated last
year, after saying that they had no confidence in the then
Government, that, with regard to the general principles on
which the commerce of the country eight to be,
for the future, regulated, they were of opinion that
there were many duties payable on the importation
of foreign commodities which ought to be reduced to a nominal
nmetint, and that in many instances in their opinion the prin-
ciple of protection had been carried to too great an extent.
If they had done so the people and the farmers of this
country. who locked fur plain dealing on that subject, they
would have understood what was meant, and seeing that both
of the great parties of this country, and that both Houses of
Parliament., were agreed ui on this principle— they would have
have had time to consider, and would have concurred in the
proposal, ehether it had been trom one Government or the
other. But they seemed to him, even now, when they
had adopted this psinciple, to hesitate in saying that
which it seemed trim to be the only thing
that could be add on the eubjeet,l•and which he had always sa.d
from the firtt moment, that it might isrpduce inconvenience,
injui y, acid loss to some extent, to thosl interests which would
be affected; but that thateloseeveireld,beiepaid, and much more
than re; aid, by the fnture-gexi&ii.preeperity of the country.—
(Cheers.) But they did not do io: tbee, were continually say-
ing, when speaking of the agricultureilprosection—there were
two things which they said, and"- which had been said
by the Right Honourable the„ Secretasy of the Home
Department—that the price of the various articles of
consumetion could be reduced, but, as hod been said by the.
Noble Lord the Secretary of lrelend, that the producer would
not find any reduction in their proditce.,—(Laughter.) His
wish was, that if they took sound principles they ought to be
prepared to avow them: With respect to many parts of the
tariff, he was quite ready to support it.— Lou.l
cheers.) But there was one thieg which he coefe.fsed
equired explanation. There was a heavy duty on the imp or-
atian of foreign copper, but they did not forbid smelting, the
consequence of which was that they introduced into this country
copper used for the purpose of smelting, obit that af,er-
wards that - copper was sol.l at a liver price iii foreign
countries than copper could be obtained at in thin
Two years ago copper went from this country and was sold 20
per cent. cheaper than it could be purchased for their own
dockyards. That was a proof of the absurdity of the law, hut
if they proposed to change it, they must also abandon the argu-
ment they steed by in the case of sugar.—(llear, hear.)
In the present ease they were favouring the mines of
Cuba, mines worked by staves.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
they r&u.ed to change when the question was between the
consumers of sugar and their own slaves in the West Indies,
and they abandoned it when it wes between slave produced ore
and the minei of Cornwall. It might be right, but let them
not stand by the argument in the case of sugar. He hoped in
the ca=n of the tariff, they would not ouly alter some of the
details, but extend the principle. All he asked was that they
should act on the principles they had themselves acknowledged
to be just. This was not the moment to impose an Income-
tax, for all clas,es were divided as to its principle, and were
ready to propose some especial grounds of exemption or
modification, while there was not that great sense of
peril or necessity which would lead men to pay it without
evasion from a sense of patriotism. He was convinced other
means
.orraising the revenue might be found, and his own
propositions having been decided aginst, he could take no
other course than to move that the Bill be read That day
six months.
Sir R. PEEL said, the Noble Lord had felt it incumbent on
himself to take the rather unusual course of resisting the first
reading the bill, which he had brought in, in conformity with
the decision o: that. House. The chief argument cf the Noble
Lord had been a personal appeal, and arg amen tat um al
kontinem, address to himself; founded on a speech he
had etude in tho year 1833, in which the Noble Lord said he
had found his own arguments more strongly expressed.
He was glad the Noble Lord had found that consolation. But
he would adder-es himself to the argument which the Noble
Lord had thus derived from him against the imposition of ass
Income tax at the present pried. It was, of course, always
important, when appeals were made to the opinion
of anyone in support of a proposition to take into account
the circumstances under which the opinion was derivered. lie
hail stated, in the year 18.33, his objections to the imposition
of an Income-tax; but, he would ask, what was then the
financial position of the country ? There was then a net
surplus, according to the statement of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, of 1,500,00n/.—(Cries of " Hear, h. ar.")
That was the estimated excess of revenue over expenditure.
Lord Althorp then proposed a considerable reduction of taxes,
which would lead to a loss of 1,0d0,000/. of revenue. But
Lord Althorp calculated tdat there would sti:l be a net surplus
of about 516,0001. That was the financial slate of the country
when be (Sir R. Peel) had been called upon to delver an
opinion talon the subject. Proposals had be, n made to reduce
the malt -tax, to reduce the house-tax, to reduce the window tax,
and it was proposed to impose a property-tax by way of a com-
mutation for the remission of the house and window-tax. He
(Sir R. Peel) had decidedly objected to the imposition of a
Property tax as a commutation for the malt tax, and-the house
tax, and the window tax ; and if at the present moment they
had a surplus of half a million, and it were proposed to re-
peal the malt tax, and the house tax, and the window tax,
and to substitute a property -tax for thinks taxes, he should have
no hesitat'on in refusing to accede to such a proposition, and
voting as he hod before voted, aea'nst the imposition of a pro-
perty-tax. The Noble Lord had alluded to what he ( Sir R.
Peel) had said on the subject in 1833. Now what course had he
taken in 1833? Lord AI thorp had lost the malt-tax, and Lord Al-
thorp had then asked him (Sir R. Peel) what course he ought to
pursue, and he (Sir R. Peel) had assured Lord Althorp that
the Right Hon. Gentleman might rely upon his (..r 11.
Peel's) support; if, to maintain public ci edit, he should deem it
necessary to come down to the House, and propose to rescind
he vote abolishing one half of the. malt-tax ; and he might
say that it was mainly in consequence of the assurance he
(Sir R. Peel) Lad given, that Lord Althorp had come down
to the House and proposed the s rung measure.of re seinsling
the vote of the former evening, and on that occa-,
s'en, laying aside all .party - considerations, he (Sir
Robert Peel) had given his support to • a Ministry
to which he was politically opposed, and again it
many of those friends with whom he had been in the habit of
act ng, because be was determined to maintain the credit of
the country.—( Cheers. ). The Noble Lord had mainly relied
upon what lie (Sir R. Peel) had said with regard to the Pro
perty -tax on that occasion. Now what was the resolution
which Lord Althorp himself had proposed on that
occasion, and proposed, too, in a time of peace ?
His (Lord Althorp's) resolution stated that the defi-
ciency which would be occasioned by the reduction of
the tax on malt, on hops, and on windows could only be supplied
by a general tax on proye:ty and income, which it was then in-
expedient to propose. He had said if ou will create
a deficiency in the revenue, there is no alternative but the im-
position of a property-tax, and he had pledged himself
if the Minister of the day had been defeated on tee
malt-tax, the house-tax, and the window-tax, to assist
in the imposition of an Income-tax. '1 he Noble Lord had
referred to his opinion respecting thepropriety of the imposition
of a property-tax in Ireland. It had been proposed to him to
impose a property-tax, as a commutation for other taxes.
It had, on that occasion, been proposed to relieve Eng-
land of the house-tax and window-tax, which would
be giving England sortie compensating advantage. But
what compensation, he had asked, did thee propose
einneesesseezereesiceleseenecenassareanneweeeteseasteueses
one of the gr. at objection to the property tax was that it did
not apply to Ireland, and that in proposing a tax of a temporary
duration, he proposed to exempt Ireland.. He proposed to raise
from Ireland, by a tax on spirits, an estimate amount of, as
near as he could calculate, equal to the amount from
a property tax. He then estimated the ditty raised by
assimilating the stamp duty in England, which he
thought amounted to a tax on property . He retained his
opinion, although he thought that, under ordinary circum-
stances; Ireland ought not to be exempt, notwithstanding the
opinion he expressed in 1833. He retained his opinion, that,
upon the whole, he had taken a just and politic course in pro •
posing to raise contributions for , the burdens of the
country by an Income- tax.—( Hear, hear.) Ile had riot
exempted Ireland, but had raised a contribution in another
way. As it had been stated that he had differed in opinion,
it was but fair to read that opinion which he held on the occa-
sion referred to, and every time he had spoken of an Income-
tax: The Right Hon. Gentleman then read an extract from
one Of his epeeehes in 1833, when he stated that a repeal of
half the malt tax carried with it a repeal.
of the whole tax, and that the only thing
calculated to make up the deficiency was that
which he was opposed to a Property-tax; and that to
propose that would be a great calamity. lie considered that an
income-tax was inseparable from a Property-tax. This was
the opinion which he held in 1833. admitting the inquisito-
rial net:See of the tax, and objecting on that ground,
nd cbjecting to its being made a commutation
fOrt taxes. But they had then a clear surplus
of 1,500,00!. lie *tbed whether or no the circumstances of
the country were iri flie tame position as they were now. The
Noble Lord had said that there would be a univeisal distaste
therefore the Noble Lord must
and dislike to this tax', am.:
admit that nothing but a sense or duty would induce
any Minister to
propose it. if Le was to expect
that the country was dissatisfied. If he was to nice,. h s.b-
jections, he would ask the Noble Li rd what could induce hire:
to Make such a proposition but a conviction that he was uphold-
ing and maintaining the public credit. The Noble Lord said
he could see no financial netetsityy and they ought not to
have mentioned the disaster in India its speaking of
that necessity. Ile (Sir B. Peel) had been referred to she
opinion of gentlemen who bad some knowledge of Indian affairs.
Ile (Sit It: Peel) thought he could produce to the Noble Lord
and to the House atithetities to show that the existing dis-
tressed state of the country had been materially affected by the
state of India. But lie did not refer to them in support of the
Income-tax, but he was told that he could name no public
disasters and that he could find no political necessity or public
emergency, and he therefure had referred to Caubul and
Affghenistan, and he had mentioned them in consequence of
what had been said, that no public disaster had occurred.
But with respect to their own position and the con-
dition of our finances apart from the Indian eon.
siderations altogether, let them consider what was the
state of tee defficiency of the last six years. Let them
consider that it would amount to at least ten mallet 5, and in a
time of peace. Alter yenrs of general peace this was the
practice of this country, that striking the balance of the ex-
penses over income, for the last six years alone, the deficit
was ten millions. 'lbis, too, was rictlieg of very common
occurrence when the notice of it could be postponed till next
rear, but that it was a growing and increasing claficieticy.
What was the amount of the present year only, it would cer-
tainly hot be less than 2,700,050/. But he had the strongest
stone:mien that when they came to strike the balance of expen-
diture the income on the sth April. 1h43, putting the It dian
question out of •he question altogether, there would be a deli -it
of 3 millions, a net deficit of 3 millions, indepent'ent of India
Well, then, lie thought, under thoseconsideranuns, that noone
could abject to the preposition be had rn,de ; . and that with re-
spect to the tariff, the reduction he had made would be for
the ultimate benefit of all classes •of the community.
Now, he believed that throughout the manufactu, in, and
trading ports of the corrimunity there would be an universal
impression that the measure he proposed would benefit the
country at large. 'I he .oble Lord might say there ought to
be great reductions made in the duty un corn and tbe duty
upon sugar and other articles; but the Noble Lord should
consider that the, reductions which he (sir Robert Peel)
If he had inscribed ti) a leather tax, or a malt tax, and a salt
tax, lee knew they would have been productive, for, it I.ad been
truly said, that, if they waisted to raise millions, they must tax
millions. Entertaining, however, a confident hove that the
revival of trade, and the additional consumption would enable
them to relieve the country from this tax, te trust ag' n say
1-1 h T!t the, w..s a
• • •,,t

T'E EX!'RESS
EDITION.

SUN OFFICE, llalf-past E; ht.

THE INCOME-TAX.
Lord J. RUSSELL (in continuation from our Third Edition,
said—Therefore the s uestion which the House had now
to decide, and in Which many Honourable Members
consider they could not concur with him without approving of
what he had proposed on a former oecosion, was, whether the
flight Hon. Gentleman's proposal should be acceptei, or whe-
ther some other alteration should be approved of by the House.
After that division, it being very late at night, and the House
b. ing fatigued with the s-veral discussions, and the Right Hon.
Baronet intimating that he meant on this day to move the first
reading of the Bill, he (Lord John Russell) thought it more
convenient rot to take a division then. He therefore come to
this question to oppose it as theugh it were a quest bin for leave
to bring in a Bin, to which Bill he had an insupeiab'e ob-
jection. He would not attempt then, having already
troubled the Hoes:: at length upon the question .of the
resolut'ons he had had the honour to propose, he would not
attempt again to go over the general arguments agains the
propoeiten. But he must sly, that he looked at the conclusion
of the debates of last week, and he considered that the argu-
ments then used against this proposition had been unanswered
by the Bight Hon. Gentleman and his colleagues. The general
arguments which he (Lord .L Russell) had attempted to eeta-
bl sh, in which severe' of his Hen. Friends had followed him,
that this tax ought not to be imposed; except in times of ex-
treme necessity, and that that case of extreme necessity
bad not arisen; that there were no such circumstances
iu the general state of the country which justified
such a step, and that the financial difficulties of the
o et. try were such, that much less objectionable measures
might have been adopted. When he (Lord J. Russell) ;spoke
the other evening, he found that the general course of argu-
ment was not only the course of argument which the Members
with whom he had generally the hap/loess to agree used, but they
were the arguments which were stated very forsibly some )ears
ago by the Right Hon. Gentleman himself, now the organ of
the present Government, against imposing such a tax. lie was
not aware of the arguments at the time last week, but if he
had been aware he did not think he could have better tallied
his own with that Right. Hon. Gentleman's. He would
read those arguments to the House made Ise of by the Right
Hon. Gentleman in 1833 neon this subject, in speaking against
Lord Althorp, then Chancellor of the Exchequer. He then
aid nothing could justify the Noble Lord in proposing an income
and property tax but a case of extreme necessity —( Cheers)
in subjecting the. people of this country, in a time of peace,
seeing that an inquisitorial process must be resorted to
(Loud cheers.) He must have made that declaration in a pro-
phetic snood, and he then eontemplatedhis proposition of 1842.
Therefore, when he stated the other ob.ections that were made
to the tax, be did i oj. think it was very justly observed that it
was only from their disposi.ion to find fault with everything
the present Government did, that they ventured to give their
opposition to a proposal so harmless and unobjectionable
as that for an income tax.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon:
Gentleman went on to say, " such a tax was a great resource in
time of war, and he was therefore unwilling to establish slash an
inquisition, as it would be accompanied with an
odium against it, that waled render it almost im-
possible to resort to it in a time of extreme necessity.'.
That was the objection which he !Lord J. Russell) had ven-
tured to repeat in the name of the Right. Hon. Gentleman. He
had not ventured to make it in such strong language, or to
say that it would make it imp ssible to resort to it in case
of necessity, but that should it be necessary to
resort to it in such a time of need, it would give the people such
a distaste to the tax, and it would become so very unpopular,
that it would be • a great bar in the way of any Government
who might wish to establish it in a time of great peril.
One of the arguments which had been stated in favour of this
tax, and upon which the Right Hon. Gentleman relied for
its popularity, was, that it would only affect persons of
incomes above one hundred and fifty pounds a year ;
and, in speaking of the petitions against the tax,
he almost invited the poorer classes to petition in favour
of :t, in order to put down the petitions of those who felt
themselves aggrieved by its being imposed on them. He
should say, that that invitation was quite unjustifiable,,
because the persons immediately and directly affected by this tax
were as much objects of the consideration of the House, being
professional men, clergymen, and surgeons, persons who were
struggling almost with as much difficulty as the common labourer,
to maintain their families in that decent respectability which be-
came those possessed of education, and accustomed to the
comforts of life. But he had also stated that though
this tax would not directly affect the labouring class, it would
indirectly, by diminishing the means of employment. The
Right Hon. Gentlemen ball expressed the same sentiment- in
1633, yet new they were told that it must be a popular
tax, by taking advantage of the p ejudice that
might arise that it solely affected the rich. They
might depenl on it it would affect all classses of labourers,
and that the opinion of the Right Honourable Baronet
in 1833 would turn out to be a sound one. There
was another question with respect to the tax, and of which
very little notice hid been taken in the course of
that debate, but upon weich both Lord Althorp and the
Right Hon. Gentleman had expressed their opinion in
1833, lie meant that portion of it which related to
Ireland. He was very glad that Ireland was
to be exempted from the tax. He thought it an inquisitorial,
an oppressive and unjust tax, and he was very glad
that brie portion of the United Kingdom was to be
exempt' from it.--( Hear, hear.) But he could nut
'understand why, if it was not desirable to have
an Income-tax in Ireland, it vas desirable to have
taxes upon stamps and upon articles of consumption,
and to pursue thee the reverse course to that which was pur-
hued in Efiglend. —(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Why, if
these principles of taxation were right; why not apply
them to Ireland as well as to England? If their
plan with respect to Ireland was right, why would not the
plan be as good in Ergland and in Scotlanci? It was said the
Machinery was wanting, but the Bight Hon. Baronet proposed
to lay d tax Upon the landed property of absentees, and there
mast be tome machinery to find out what was the income
&dishier; from that property. 'the eettuts tinder the Poor-
law Act were to be applied to that purpose, but if applied for
that purpose they might also be applied to a still greater
extent. It was clear, therefore, that that was not a
sufficient reason for exempting Ireland from the tax. But what
paid the Rieht Hen. Gentleman in 1833, with regard to this
fax y The Bight Hon. Gentleman said "he wished to see Ireland
favoured as much as possible, but to impose a property tax
upon Etiglatiti and Scotland/ and to exempt Ireland
flbm its 6eteatioe Would be the height of injustice.
(Hear, hear, and laughter, from the eipposeion.) However
unpopular that opinion might be, he craild not but declare that
he thetight it wouel be exceedingly unjust."
13E0.-4—Ge bfii
Lord S. RUSSELL Said he had n6l. the meane of doirg-so—
he had thought that declaration sufficieht.—( Hear, hear.)
He could quite , understand that what was inexpedient
in 184 Might, through a chafige of circumstances, become
expedient in 1842, but how that which Was unjust iti 1863 could
become just in 1841, quite exceeded his compreliensiote
If there were passages in the Right Hon. Gentleman's
tpeeth ih which basing proved that the exemption would
be. unjust; he prbeed that it ,iftifild be exee, dinghy
lust; it was net ip his (bell John Russell's) power to quote
hose passages. Ont ef the Right Hon: Gentlemen's col-
leae ties had declared, that he Mild dtees tee a Statement
to that House—(Laughter)—and it was very eessible
therefor,e that, he had made a Speech, proving both that
It wdtild be iiiljust, ainl that it boss d ertet:(Laughter. )
The speech of the Right Honourable teentlefilatt oh that
occasion contained the pith and substance of all the arguments
which had been urged against the tax in the course of that
debates atilt lie had felt great satisfaction in finding that his
own objections wefts those efitettailied by the Honourable
Gentleman in 1833; He had heard metty tittetnpts
me& by lieneufable Alt inbert ip the eourSe of
that debate to Faint in dark colefirs the eiteseetity of the
country and to te present: her meads of meeting her enethies
in the molt unfavourable light: These representations had
natitrally eeraketied ,the indighatien fif his tlight Hein Friend
the Member for Portsmouth, and he shared with him in that
feeling. Now, let them look at those portions of the empire
to which they were accustomed to look when taking a general
stirvey of its affairs: There ivas the. United leingecm of Eng-
land, lecotlahci, Slid Ireland lh a etale of tt ktiquillityr With
respect to our foreign possessions, reference had beets tnade to
Canada. For some years there had been a popular Assembly
existing in that country. That Assernely had made a demand
which implied.a total independence of this Country. Tile con-
sequence was that there had been an inftaction of the great
constitutional principles that the revenue raised in Canada
should be applied fur particular and specified purposes. Those
events had extended from 1622 to 1837. In the Parliament,
as now ennstituted, he lerlieted a tery considerable majority
were well affected to the Cretin and the leritish etneire. Some
hints had been thrown cut of the dengei Uf ::ear ifs Etirdpe,
but when did a Minister of the Crown propose a tax ol such
a contingency? With respect to the melancholy reverse which
Lad been experienced in India, it had been clearly shown that,
viewed in a financial point of view merely, that deplcrable
calatnity did riot requite the imeteltioh el art oppreesiee, enjast,
unequal, and inquisitorial tax upon the people of this country.
Then, much was made of the state of our relations with
China ; and really one member of the Cabinet, alluding to
our dangers With tespect to China, spoke of the Emperor of
China as if he had been the Emperor Nepolooli, and as
if the fleet of junks, at Canton; had been the flotilla at
Boulogne. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") He had used
language upon the subject, Which no Minister would have ven-
tured to use in the face of the mighty dangers which threatened
the country in 1804 arid 1605. Now he (Lord J. Russell) telt
no apprehension with respect to the war in China. It was
a war, it should he remembered, the expenses of which
were confined to the country in which it was carried on.
If they had a war with any of the Powers of Europe or eith the
United States of America, they would find it necessary to
strengthen their coloniel possessions, and they would take
care that there should be no point either by sea
or land, at which their interests would be endangered. But no-
body would apprehend that the Chinese would capture Jamaica
or would attack Gibraltar, or do any of those things which
the Great Powers of Europe might be expected to attempt.
They had, besides, this alternative, that if the Emperor of
China should refuse to conclude a treaty, and no
put an end to hostilities, they might seize upon
some convenient sea-port in his dominions, and carry
on still their commerce with the Chinese. They might
hold either Canton or Chueanerind they would then be enabled
to carry on -their trade more securely than they had done
during past years, when these sueerintendent had been ic-
suited and the safety of their commerce constantly en-
dangered by the hostility of the Government of China.
But supposing that their expenses should be increased by the
Chinese war half a million a-year—suppose they should have
to pay the whole expenses of that war—and suppose that war
should continue for same years, still that would be no excuse
for the imposition of an income tax.---( Cheers.) He now came
to the second part of the subject, on which, no doubt, they
would all, hereafter, have frequent opportunities of speaking;
he meant ;!;at part of the priv,s.tion 1., •
fee 'le rut'. 1;e bus c•t az:y the ' '
c,pits ;At welch those adelaiions had been proosed. Ateer 11"oUldb"be
having, as a Minister of the Crown, advised her Majesty to v

this ii,x upuii tiit, opurty hi ale cutuitiy, ban there
by reviving the malt, salt, leather, and other taxes,

vKiich, after all, must be paid by those whose condition 114
m cst wished to improvn. %Vhatever opinions he had eepresseti
in 1e33, he had a firm conviction that he was consulting the
in crests am' security cf ore rty mere by imposing this tax ueo°
income, than by subjecting the great mass of the working
classes of the country to indirect taxation.—( Hear.) 4(1-
1 mitting the evil of it, yet he had the enose confident opinion
that the tax was not only just in itself, considering the
manner in which prop rty had accumulated, but that, by call-
ing upon these who made profits in trade—by calling upon the
higher classes, who had set, he must say, an example of their
willingness to come forward and bier their share of the
burden, he was doing that which was most consistent with the
ntercsts of trade, by whom the bulk of property was possessed.
He was confident that, if Parliament would set that example.
there would arise a feeling of sati,faction among the great
consuming classes of the country wnich welsld amply coreeen"
sate them for the sacrifice they would make.—( Hear, hear.)
Net tN ithstanding the expressions the Noble Lord had quoted--
netwilwithstanding the decided opinion which he still retained--
that if they had a surplus of 1,500,000 e, to attempt to impose
an Income-tax, in lieu of a window tax or a house tax, would
be most unjust and mostunwise, on account of the inquisitorial
nature of the tax. Concealing none of these objections, yet
the result of the enquiiies he Lad made, and of the commit"
nications he had neeived fro m various parts cf the countrl
was to zontir.n him in the imeressicn which he entertained
when he proposed the tax, that in a chain of difficulties the
proposal which he had made was the best which he could have
devised.— ( Hear, hear. ) They wi re now discussing the gel s,';
lion at an imusual static; and he would cot fine himself
to ariswr ring the Noble Lord upon the subject i
rnediately before the llouse.—( Hear, hear.) It would
inconveniret that he :hould then enter into an/
discustion upon thuseeff ; but he thought he should, when
the iroper tine arrived, be able to show that the contenn'
plated reductioes in the tariff might be made consistently with
the interests of the proeucers aswe 11 as the consumers. Ile
would take that opportunity of mentioning two notification; he
hid made in the measure for the purpose of removing the objet'
thus which had been made in the course of the discussioa-
One had reference to the tenants in Scotland. It had been
stated—and stated very truly—that the position of the tenant
in Scotland, was different from the position of the tenant.
in England—that the tenant in Scotland was subject to no
payment on account of tithes—ilia( the tenant in Scotland was
subject to none of these payments which usually fell in England
upon the occupying tenant, but which in Scotland were borne by
the land. In point offact by the Ace cf Ibo 6, a differencewas made
to subject any of the cLs;es under Schedule D to that •iuquist"
lion to which be was subjected by the Bill of 1E306, would he
unfit.. lie did not allude to the deference of tenure . iii the
case of funded property there was no difficulty, as
any cne with any curiosity in the affairs of others
might ea-ily ascertain the amount of another.
man's funded property. The same was the case with regard
to land. The arrangement lea proposed to make with reearte
to property in Schedule D was this i—He propose°
to leave the Act .of 1806 as he found it--
namely, to permit those who preferaed going before
Local Commissioners, appcinted in their own neighbourhood bf ••
apparently but not really in favour of the Scotch tenant. He
had eteleavoured to place the occupying tenant in Sergio,'"
nearly on the same footing of the occupying tenant in England
In theca e of the English tenant who occupied land tithe freer
he would be entitled to a deduction of one-eighth, from the
amount of his assessment, and it was clear that to that deduction
the Scotch tenant was also entitled. In the case of the Eng-
lish tenant who had that charge paid by the landlord, he ♦sass,
also entitled to the deduction; substantial justice required the
t
the Scotch tenant should have a deduction of one-third on th°
rut eod of one-half. The great objection made to this tale's!
its inquisitorial nature. It had been sad with great force, that
parties .ndependent of the Government, to retain the power ea,
doing so. But if any person objected to go before these 'Oa
authorities, if any one said that the Commissioner appente.,
might be a competitor in trade, before whom a disclosure of hr.;
income might be . accompanied with prejudice to his
affairs, or with vexation to his feelings, he proposi_e°
to give those parties the option of sending in their return of
come to a sworn officer of the Government, an Inspector of the
Survey ; if they wished to appeal from the local authorities, he.
proposed to rise parties the power of making it to that office
e
lie found the surcharges had been rarely made. He ',be
attempted to prevent fraud and evasion, because to permit tai
existence of fraud would be unjust to the honest man. He key
endeavoured to reconcile the execution of justice to all earti,„
and the means of preventing evasion and fraud, with a rentee'..
for those special evils which were likely to arise from the !°,,,
quisitorial nature of the impost.—(Hear.) On 101°117
at the Bill, he trusted that some portion ea
I..ast of the objections that had been uaged against
would be found to have been alevisted. He believed, nottel!'e
standing the predict ions of that Noble Lord as to the disgust 0,15:
this tax must create, and as to the unpopularity which must tw'
mately be the lot of those e ho proposed it, he believed that he se e
indications throughout the country generally, of the existel
of a strong feeling of the necessity of ma'ntaining rib
iic,l
credit, and of adopting vigorous measures in order to get rd
f the financial difficulties He :pole of what he had observe
as to the feeling of the property of the country, :nee
of that portion of the property which was ember t:
in trade and manufactures; and he • felt assured the
there was a strong prevailing opinion on ',l.
whole that if it was necessary to raise 4,000,ure
to sustain the public credit it was inure consistent with just,'We •
and sound policy to impose the burden on the property of
community than by indirect taxation, to restrict the roue
fort of the great mass of the people.—(Loud cheeriegbt!
He wou'd not then go further into the discussion of the sit
k ie
ct. I'e knew not if the Noble Lord would feel it her ore
duty to take the sense of the House again beige
the Bill went into Committee—he meant on day
second reading, but he would fix as early *
impcssible fcr the second reading, and it it should be the °P;e
nion of the House, thdt, on account of the peculiar cirVilio
stances of the case, considering the season of the year, and tee
immense importance to the trade and manufactures cattle
that the opinion of Parliament should be asked as speeih€l)
possible iespecting our future commercial regulations, if •
that account it should be the opinion of the 'I ary
that it would be advisable to woke some temrr
' -
relaxation of those rules of the House—( 0)
„co
that,
which confined their discussions on these subjects to
days in the week. He would not propose it, unless he feietut if
such was the general sense of the House of Commons;
_,ueere
he should feel assured that such was the general
of the House he would propose a temporary relaxation of "'the
rues so as to enable them to devote more than two daystile„,)
vvc ek to the consideration of the Income-tax and tariff.—drte"oe
Mr. VILLIERS said he attached more importance t°
speech which the Right Hon. Baronet had just made, tbano
almost any one which he had yet delivered, because lie The
e' •
given them a greater insight into his future views, lee
intentions than they had been able yet to gather. 'in.
Right Honourable Baronet's speech had been s° 100
geniously worded that people had been at a
to discover what might really be his ultimate intenti..ol
and many persons objecting to the details of this scheinealhe
'yet been inclined to oppose him, because they considereei or
the present as the commencement of a new systerool
taxation which would relieve the necessities of the Neadent
from the pressure of the unjust system of indirect ta2' once
which at present prevailed. The Right Hon. nar? s •,speech of that evening had dissipated all such delor it
for the Right Bon. Baronet had said that, i° the
should be again proposed to substitute a property-ter, the
indirect taxes which pressed upon the masses *a,siseeg
people, no swan would be more firm, in rt
such exchange of system than himself (Sir Robert, lino:
The Right lion. Baronet distintly admitted that all "e.uitain
posed to do by this oppressive Inoorne-tex was to II die.
public credit. They got into a financial
ficu.ty, and they ought to consider the !we
of it. This tax was merely a means of evading one 100
courses. The House had been told frequently that the tin': ree-•
approaching when they would have to consider the effect the'
duced by levying taxes on the people not only for; sod
support of the State4but for the benefit of particularelassex'per
that they would have to do one of two things, either to t 5
perty, to maim ain public credit, and to diminish those mon'Yerie
which impoverished the people, and prevented them fr°,e's te'st
tributirg to the taxee. It it as owing to these monopolies,
too
the price of living was enhanced, and trade was restricts 'bete
they were about to commesice that struggle whicle-leaell°°ge the
predicted between the maintainance of monopoly, ~,g)
maintainance of public credit. (Loud cbee_eirj,i
whether they should maintain public cre"'nereg
imposieg fresh taxes, or by abolishing nt°". isreo
and the real question they were trying th-eiled talc
and those who last year held that opinion had been steer W."
and tannted by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, who this year'to the
ever, admitted its correctness by their frequent allusions comet
connexidn between the cost of living and the value of 11l Hari
Suce were the principles which were then put forth la est
they been seriously entertained, he believed they w°
du the'
have seen such a Corn Bill as had been introduce line soi
Right Hon. Baronet opposite; they would not have pet
da°'
Income-tax, nor so small an instalment of what e",:eogete
to the country as the tariff of the Fight Honourable 9•:e-el
of
(Hear, hear.) He wanted to have some clear definr!, the
the cause and character of the deficiency under
eebtilt7erit
country was labeur:ng. He hod been told by his e°l'ste
ashen
that they had no objection to a tax upon pr°Perthat
the necessities of the country required
_,elcss'
should be imposed. They objected -to thecusitineeo: ,
manner in which the tax was to be imposed, no to tbe
being made between different kinds of income' (Licari
principle
.of a direct tax they did not object- -',e °
defcie'l ' la
But what was the cause of the - r the Jr
It was rot sufficient to say that it had occurred under
Government, the argument was that the ''.na t".
had occurred under the late Government, be rec.
those who had appointed that Government ebne,:wottike
pared to supply it ; but that was not the view whi'lP
by the great body of the people.—( Hear, hear.)

-