The Sun.
London, England, 1829-02-28 00:00:00

that part of it which depended on tire pensions granted to
the widows of the lower officers in the navy. It may be
worth ,onsidering hereafter whether the old restrictions
ought tat to he continued : at the same time he must
state, ta it as the removal of them was forced upon
the Governmert, it did not become the Govern-
ment spontaneously to renew them. The ineivaae,
he ought to state, was from 124,835/ to 129,323/.
The third branch of the estimates, which related
to the wcrlie of the yards was 80,0001. less this year
than it wee last. But before be entered into a detail of
its different it: trip, he would just r, mark that it was the
intentiou Government to place the widows' fund under
a different management from that under which it was
placed at resent. Great cart of the 110,000/. whirl' is
to 1:e voted for the widows' charity, is only voted to make
good the deficiency in the funds of the charity voted the
poldie, for the relief of the widows of commissioned and
warrant officers in the royal navy The Hon. Member
(•eb" ae enunciation is at all times thick and indistinct, and
who was very indistinctly heard during the greater part of
his speech) here dropped his voice so low, that it was im-
!sossible to collect correctly his explanation upon this point.
e understood him to say that the deficiency which
Ire
had mentiend was generally made good by placing a fic-
titious number of men on a ship's books, and by apply-
ing the pay of that fictitious number to make good any
pensions which might accrue during the year to the
widows of any officers who died on hoard of it. Besides
this, there was a sum paid over by the navy agents from
the pay of each naval officer, to say nothing of a small sum
of 3d. in the pound taken from the pay of the sailor to
make good the same deficiency. Now this was an awk-
ward way of doing. it ; and he thought that a sum of
money should be voted directly for that object, in order to
check the growing expense to which it was subjecting
the country. With respect to the works in the yards, he
had only to observe that there had been a general diminu-
tion in the expense of every item in that branch of the
expenditure. There is, however, one new charge in this
third part of the estimates; he alluded to the charge of
building an engine-house at Portsmouth. This house was
required to repair the accidents which were often occur-
ing in the boilers and engines of steam-boats. Great ad-
vantage would acrue to the public from the erection of it.
At present, it any accident happens to the boilers, there
is no means of repairing it, except by sending the steam-
boat into the river, a circumstance which prevents it
from being so readily restored to the service as it might
laa were the accident 'repaired on the spot, and which
might at some time be extremely detrimental to the
public. service. To prevent such an occurrence, it is in-
tended to build an engine-house at Portsmouth, for the
purpose of repairing there any accidental injury which may
befal the boiler or machinery of his Majesty's steam-boats.
The estimate for this engine-house was 7,600/. Though
the sum wanted to complete the works at Sheerness is
156,0001., it is not intended to take any sum on that ac-
count this year. The works there are now out of danger;
the docks, basins, and sea-walls, are sufficiently advanced
to be safe against all attacks of the waves and weather;
and if an emergency should arise, the storehouses for the
service of the yard may be run up in a very short time.—
It is not intended to run up at present the storehouses for
the ordnance ; and the money already voted for those works
is quite sufficient to keep them in repair. The charge for
the purchase of provisions for troops to be embarked in the
navy is this year 275,000/. and is greater than it was last
year, owing to the increased price of pro\dsions. He
trusted, however, that there would be a reduction in this
item next year, as also in the expences of the Transport
Board, which had been considerably reduced already. He
had now gone through the whole of the navy estimates, and
he was happy to say that the charge of this year was much
less than the charge for last year. Last year the charge
for the navy estimates was 5,990,000/. ; this year it was
5,878,794/., being a rednction of 11i3,000/. in round
numbers. The Hon. Member then moved, that "it is
the opinion of this Committee that 30,000 men, including
9,000 royal marines, bra employed to serve in his Majesty's
fleet for 13 lunar months, commencing the Ist day of Jan.
829."

Mr. HUME could not find that satisfaction which
many gentlemen appeared to experience, at hearing the
magnificent promises in which the lion. Member had in -
(bilged, respecting the reductions which the Lords of the
Admiralty intended to make in future. If he could credit
those promises, it would be well ; but be had now had
some experience in Parliament, and he saw that whilst
every year Minister: promised the country reduction after
reduction, the country Lained nothing but increase after
increase of its expenses. He had therefore come to this
conclusion, that promises he would avoid, and reduction
he would prefer. He was sure that every Member of the
Finaoce Committee then present would recollect that the
impression made upon them by the evidence which they
took was, that very great reduction could be made in this
department of the public expenditure. He complained of
the Members of the Finance Committee, and be thought
that they would now admit that he complained with jus-
tice—he complained of them, he said, for thinking it un-
necessary to make a report last Session, recommending re•
ductioni in those eetimatee, and for supposing that the
presenting the evidence which they had taken, respect-
ing their expediency, would have as groat an effect upon
Ministers as the recommendations of their report. Re-
ductons ought to have been made in the Pay-office, re luc-
tiooe ought to have been made in the N ivy office; but
beyond acy thing rsiduetions ought to have been made
in the Dock yards. Ue had he trd it said in this place
and in that-, that time Duke of W•liiiigton intended to eeer
this Board of its supernumeraries, and that be would
get rid of all hut the working bees from all the puhlie
offices. Judge, then, of his surprise, in finding that there
was to he an greater reduction in the navy estimates this
year than one of 117,0001. ; and that, too, as the Hon.
Baronet had stated fairly enough, was made up of 40,000!.
saved in storey, and of 80,C00/. for works, which it was
not intended to finish. He did oat see any reason for
spinning cut the erection of public works for years, as was
done with the Breakwater at Plymouth ; the best plan was
to go to the expense at once, which would prove a great
saving to the public. With regard to the amount of our
force, he would only observe that we hail last year 30,254
men employed in the navy, and that it appeared from the
evidence of Sir George Cockburn, that we ought not to
have snore than 20,000 or 21,000 men, unlege we were
in a state of warfare. The vote now proposed would,
if carried, compel the House to keep up the naval esta-
blishments for this year at an expense of 5,100,000/.—
He thought that a force of 30,000 men was at pro•
sent unnecessary, and that the navy was placed in
a very awkward situation, owing to its having 2,700
men of the number voted for it employed in preventing
stunggling, and 700 more employed in the packet ser-
vice. He would reduce 3,200 raeu on this score, and
would find a force in another quarter to collect the revenue,
and to navigate packets for the Post-office. We had now
9,000 Royal Marines; but of this number 5,533 were
always employed on shore. if we could reduce the army
to that amount, he should not object to keeping up such a
force of marines. lie would get rid of the number of
marines who were thus employed on shore, and he mold
apps reduce 9,000 men without at all crippling the effective
force of the navy. We had also 2,000 men acting as a
sort of police at Lisbon. He did not know what occasion
we had for them in Portugal, and he should like to learn.
With respect to the other parts of our naval establishment,
a greater reduction ought also to be made. He would not
build ships for which we had no present want. Ile would
suppose that the tonnage of our navy ought to be 300,000
tons ; and he did not think that it ought to be more. lie
eould inane that amount of tonnage at 30/. a ton, or for nine
millions Now, sioce the peace, we had expended more than
twice that stun in building ships, to say nothing of what we
had gxpended in repairs. The country had therefore been
put to an expence as enormous as it was unnecessary,
for this extraordinary manufacture of ships. if we had
built less ships, we should have had less to repair, and a
fewer number to fall into decay. The wages paid to arti-
Acere and labourers in his Majesty's yards at home amount-
ed this year to 4.80,000/. The charge for timber, stores,
and other materials foe doe building and repair of ships was
759,0001. exclusive of 120,0001. reessived for old naval
stores, making in all a sum of 1,359,0001. actisai exprice
incurred in 1828 for the manufacture of ships. Such an
oospenditure was altogether . useless. We might save a
million in th.e estimate without lessening our navy too
much. The cost of the prds at home this year was
115,0001, that of the yards abroad 1:4,2,9001. znd this added
to the sum before-mentioned formed an aggregate of
1,5.7,0001. Instead of an expenditure of this amount,
220,0001. or 240,0p01. was the average cost of building
and repairing our slip preyioue to the French war of
1793. He maintained that the er,pene cf ohip-boilde
ing, &c. might have been reduced to that amount during
the last eight or nine years, and a sufficient navy still
kept up. As he had before said, a saving of more than
1,0,;001. might thus have been effected. The civil es-
tablishments connee'sed with the navy cost now upwards of
180,000/. ; before the Fiends war the expense seldom
reached 60,000/. ;be might state it at 58r,000/. Here
also there was ample room fur reduction. The Pay-office
would adiamit of reduction—the business of it could be per-
formed by eight or nine clerks, and a considerable saving
might be effected in this way. He was convinced that the
Navy Office might be dispensed with altogether—that and
the Arm) Pay Office could be consolidated. The head of
the department stated before the Iluhattic be dispensedeConainittee,w tiltih.
at
of 52 clerks employed iu it, 10 might