The Sun.
London, England, 1845-03-01 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORD S, -Feb. 28.
The Loan CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at
Five o'clock.
A message from the Commons brought up several private
tarns.
On the motion of Lord BROUGHAM, Britten's Divorce
Bill was read a third time and passed.
IRISH CONSTABULARY.
Thea,Earl of CLARENDON, on behalf of the Marquis of
Norsiartb7, gave notice of the intention of that Noble Marquis
to bring the question of the Irish constabulary, of which he had
S
given notice, before theUGARir LordshipsDUTlES on Tuesday next.
Lord MONTEAGLE then rose to move for certain papers
relative to the sugar duties, to which he hoped there would
be no objection. He wished, however, to make a few ob-
servations as to the grounds upon which he did it,
because in a former tliscussit.n it seemed to be thought
that he was premature in making observations on a measure
that was likely to come before that House in the shape o' a
Bill. It was upon these grounds that he wished now to make
a few observations. Thy were now informed, from the
highest authority, that the resolution in another place
would take effect at the time the resolution passed.
He was not now dealing with foreign sugar merely, but with
the equalisation of the sugar duties in our East and West
ndia colonies : and in the years 1841 and 1842, when the
ugar duties were brought under discussion, he had brought
the same thing under the notice of the House. He thought it
most necessary that this principle should be understood, be-
cause on a late evening, when he asked a question of the
Noble Lord (Stanley), he had been told that the Minis-
terial proposition was not to bo supposed a final measure,
but was only intended to give, as it were, a notice
of its final legi.lation proposed by the Government.
They were told also by the Noble Lord, that the Government
intended to adhere to the principle of equalisation on the
sugars of both the East and West India colonies ; that they di:l
not intend to observe a discriminating duty on the sugars of
the East, greater than that exacted from those of the West
There was an artifice of this description once perpetrated by
the Government of France, and he thought it was this. In
reference to the duty upon iron, it was proposed
by the French Government that there should be a higher
duty upon all iron which was brought by sea than that
which was imposed en the same article into France by
land. True, there was no mention wade of either
England or Belgium, but the effect was still the same,
because English iron nece,sarily came by sea, while that of
Belgium came by land. Since the former discussion oa this
subject he had communicated with some influential parties can-
nected with- the East Indies, and they appeared to entertain
•the same impreSsion as he did ; they agreed with him that the
measure of the Government would operate most unjustly to the
East Indies. This, he thought, most strongly showed the
general impression that prevailed throughout the whole
commercial world on this subject. But there was a stronger
evidence than this in the memorial addressed to the Govern-
ment by the East India and China Association. This Association
comprehended all the eminent traders in that part of the world.
Two highly respectable members objected to the terms of the
memorial, but he believed the rest were unanimous in agree-
ing to it. They complained bitterly of the measure of the
Government, and pretended that it would materially injure the
trade of the East Indies, holding out, as it did, a premium for
the introduction of the worst quality of sugar into this country.
He wished to say one word more. He had a considerable objec-
tion to the plan which their Lordships would be called upon to
as.`Prove. When it was endeavoured to impose equal duties on
sugars of a different quality it had invariably proved an unequal
duty. They wished to impose an ad valorem duty.
That plan had been tried and -had utterly failed.
The Government with which he had been connected,
though ha was not at that time a member of it,
hatl attempted a similar measure. They had classified tea', and
attempted to impose an ad valorem duty on teas. The argu-
ments tor it were certainly very plausible, but it had utterly
failed in practice. The fact was that it was invariably found
that the highest quality of a secondary kind was always more
valuable than the lowest quality of the first kind, and the
consequence was that the duty fell unequally on the lowest
quality of the first-rated article. There was a great vlfficulty
even areong the merchants themselves to ascertain the peculiar
value of each species of sugar, and this was the reason why the
duty of 65., which had been imposed on East India Segal-4,
which were equal to clayed sugars, had been repealed. In
1823, in replying to Mr. Woolrich Wichmore, he bad stated
this es the reason why he repealed the duty of 53.,
which had been imposed on East India sugars.
He was persuaded that if their Lordships or the other House
of Parliament would only have a Committee for one week with
respect to the question, that the evidence taken during that
time would satisfy the Government that a measure of this
kind would end in disappointment, as it would cause
disputes between the officers of the Government and the ex-
porting merchants. If there was any tax that ought
not to be discussed annually it was a tax of such
mighty and distinct interests. The object was to
ascertain the whole working et the discriminating
duties of 1831, the ground on which they were departed from,
and the reasons for the present proposed duties. The Nc,ble
Lord concluded by moving for the returns of which he had
given notice.
Lord STANLEY was aware that it was somewhat irregular

to take up their Lordships' time with the discu-si,n of a ques-
tion which was not regularly before the House. When
the measures of her Majesty's Government came bef ire
the House he should be prepared to defend them in
every particular. He deprecated any construction
of a Bill which had not gone throuz,h the other House of Par-
liament. He ventured to repeat the declaration he had made
on a previous evening, that it was the intentior of Givern-
ment to equalise the duties on the products of the East and
West Indies, and only to add a higher duty to the
superior qualities of sugar from the east in order to equal the
duty on the same qualities of sugar from the west.
The returns were then agreed to.
BAIL IN ERROR.

The LORD CiIANCELLOR, in proposing the second
reading of this 13111, said that it would not be necessary
to do more than briefly advert to the principle of the measure.
Perhaps an illustration would better explain the nature and
alliee.t of the Bill. A party was charged with misdemeanour ;
say for three or six months, er a longer period.
He was advised by his conn.el that the judgment
was erroneous, and he ought therefore to apply for a
writ of error. But immediately after the sentence was pro-
nounced it was executed, and he was thrown into confinement?
A considerable time elapsed before the writ of error
could be heard, and a decision pronounced by the
court above ; still he was suffering the sentence
sf the law, and if the imprisonment was not of long duration it
Lequently expired before judgment was pronounced upon the
writ of error. What was the case, however, in civil actions.
A verdict was returned and judgment pronounced ; the defen-
dant brings a writ of error, and this susperds
the execution of the judgment. At first, the
writ of error was granted without bail or security being gives ;
but this being found inconvenient, the law was afterwards
changed, and this person bringing the writ of error had
to enter into his own recogniz Ince!, and to produce
two responsible sureties that the debt and costs
should be paid in the event of the judgment being
confirmed. But if the debt and costs were paid immediately
after the verdict was returned, the party, if he succeeded in
his writ of error, could recover the amount by an action
at law. This, however, did not apply to a case of a
criminal nature. The party was punished notwith-
standing that he brought a writ of error, and he had
no possibility of being restored to his former position.
If it was not open to the Court to suspend the decree, it
yet was open tea suspend the execution of the decree,
and from the commonalty of civil proceedings he apprehended
there would be no difficulty in the case. On these accounts
be thought that this was a proper Bill, and ought
to pass into law. It was singular that so many distinguished
lawyers took the like view of this matter.__( Hear, hear.)
When things went on in their usual course, they were apt to
forget their (fury and to slumber on their post, and it was not
until something unusual occurred' to rouse them from their
apathy, that they turned to the improvement of those defi-
ciencies which do- lapse of time had occasioned. In the last
seseon his Noble Friend had brought in a Bill to remedy the
evil, but it was not in his ( Lord Lyndhurst's) opinion free from
defects, and he had accordingly opposed the second reading. Ifon
some future occasion he would bring in another Bill to avoid

those defects, he would support it, but if he did not, he ( Lard
Lyndhurst) would introduce a bill. There were mea3urcs in
ptsparation, which he hoped shortly to introduce to their
Lordships..

Lord CAMPBELL said he rose to oppose the Bill. His
Noble Friend •earned to have utterly forgotten the course he
took last session. The Bill that had been brought in by his Noble
Friend the Lord Chancelor w is, ipigsinnts rerbis, the Bill he
Lad presented himself. His Noble Friend had made an admi-
rable speech upon a Bill which he had formerly reprobated.
After humbly objecting to the period ashen the measure was
introduced, his Noble and Learned Friend said " But what is
this Bill? "—( Laughter.) " What a miserable specimen of
legislation this Bill is," said the Lord Chancellor ; "it is a
Hill for the rich and not for the pour ;" end that was the very
law which he (the Lord Chancellor) now proposed.—
( Great laughter.) The Noble and Learned Lord then re-
minded the House of the cobweb by which the small flies
were caught, and elle large ones escaped, and speaking of the
higher class of offenders, he said that whether the judgment
were affirmed or reversed, he set the laws equally at defiance.
And this, again, was the very measure introduced by the Noble
and Learned Lord—( Great laughter)—and then the Noble
and Learned Lord concluded by caning upon the House to
throw out so miserable a measure.—(Continued laughter. )
When they read the Bill of the Lord Chancellor, he trusted
that they would not exactly take the word of the Noble and
Learned Lord, that his measure was so very miserable as he
had stat.ed it was.—( Laughter, and hear, hear. )

- Tho LORD CHANCELLOR said his No1;10 and Learned
Friend had evidently mistaken the character of the two mea-
sures.—( Laughter.) The reason why he opposed the Bill
du: ing the last session of Parliament was because he thought
it was introduced to meet a certain political object. What
his Noble and Learned Friend trot just stated, convinced
him he was not in error in that respect, because
he had stated the name of the individual by whom the Bill
was drawn up. fte had also stated that a certain Member of
the Howe of Commons, Mr. More O'Ferrall, was the indi-
vidual who canvassed Members of that Howe to introduce the
measure.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was surprised to hear the
statement of the Noble Lord. A measure introduced to do an
act of justice at a particular time did not admit of its being
deseribed as introduced with a political object. He saw
no reason whatever why. because a Bill should have the
effect of doing an act of ri.,4ht to an individual, be that
individual whom he may, it should be liable
to be called a Bill introduced with the view
of securing a political object. He did not think
that any Government was justified in such exclusion. He, was
glad to see that their Lordships were ready to assent to the
principle of this Bill, and he believed that it did not require
the eloquence of the Noble Lord to induce them to assent to
that principle. He deemed it to be unjust to punish a man
until it was ascertained that his sentence was a just one. He
should ever esteem it one of the most fortunate circumstances
of the events which took place last session, that this Bill was
placed on the Statnte-book. He was glad to see that the Bill
was I,kely to pass, and he trusted it would pass their Lord-
ships' House unanimously.
Lot d BROUGHAM said that Bill had been put into his
hands by very respectable persons; but in consequence of being
obliged to go abroad he had been unable to theive
requisite
attention to it. On sueaking to his Noble Friend on the wool-
sack, h' had observed that this pas a very awkward time for
uch a Bill. He (Lord Bririgh.rn)
did agree with his
V oble Friend in the general observation, thai the d
ustice ought never to be loaded wish the accusation of
tiolitoLot.
al
iVe ; but there was another general observation, that it
NU never doing justice to legislate upon a case whilst that case
was pending.
The LORD CHANCELLOR deprecated his Noble Friend's '
remarks.
Lord BROUGHAM said he wished his Noble Friend would
leave off reading his own speech, and attend to his (Lord
Brougham's )—for that was not likely to lead him into diffi-
culty. The Bill certainly came from the prosecutor rather than
from the defendant. Ho should call it a Smythe Bill rather
than an O'Connell Bill.—( Laughter.) That was the conver-
sation that passed, and it comprised the great objection of his
Learned Friend to the time rather than the measure. He
recollected the speech his Learned Friend had made ; he felt
bat there were eases where the party Ought net to be
kwid is eaeape; he could easily coueeive that there were

cases where such men would leave their bail, and the ends
of justice would be defeated, and therefore there ought to be
some law upon the subject. Bail in error could not be had,
it was true, unless a writ of error was brought. Therefore,
if they followed the analogy of judiciary proceedings in the
Court of Chancery, instead of vesting the discretion in the
Attorney-General, they would vest it in the Court of Law.
It was a subject of the greatest d ffieulty. He knew that the
judges were unwilling to exercise so invidious and onerous a
duty, and he felt confident that one or two alterations in the
Bill would be the re tilt of the:: Lordships' attention.
Lord DEN II AN thought that the reason why this im-
portant subject had not before bean brought under the notice
of the House was, that errors in criminal cases were of very
rare occurrence. and it was only when those errors increased
to an inconvenient and serious evil that it was found necessary
to make some inquiry, with a view to remedy them. He be-
lieved that those evils would, however, require a more perfect
measure than that now described to the House. He felt
grateful to the Noble Lord for having introduced the measure,
and he hoped that a measure somewhat similar to that which
had been introduced some sessions ago, would soon be brought
forward to limit the power of the Secretary of State in the
opening of letters.
The LORD CHANCELLOR explained.
Lord BROUGHAM said his Noble and Learned Friend,
who originally proposed this Bill, had allowed himself to fall
into a trap set for him by his Noble and Learned Friend on the
woolsack, and now he was shown up in it.—(Laughter.)
Lord CAMPBELL was rejoiced that so much sympathy
subsisted between himself and the Noble Lord on the wool-
sack on the subject of the Bill. Indeed, he -thought they
were somewhat like the Siamese twins, when one suffered both
suffered.—( Laughter. )
The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on the first convenient day.
RAILWAYS.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE laid on the table of the House
the report of the railway department of the Board of Trade,
relating to the projected railways in Buckinghamshire, Hamp-
shire, and Wiltshire.
Their Lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feo. 28.
The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour.
NEW MEMBERS.
Mr. W. B. Raring took the oaths and his seat for the borough
of Thetford, and Mr. C. Tower for the county of Berks.
SOUTH-EASTERN RAILWAY.
An HoN. MEMBER presented a petition complaining that
the South-Eastern Railway Extension Company had not com-
plied with the standing orders.
Petitions praying for leave to bring in Bills were presented
from the London and Canterbury Railway Company, the
Brighton, Lewes, and Hastings -Railway Company, and the
Manchester, Bury,'and Rossendale Railway Company.
DUBLIN CEMETERIES.

Mr. COLLETT presented a petition in favour of the Dub.
lin Cemeteries Bill.
SHIPLEY AND COLNE EXTENSION RAILWAY.
Mr. FERRAND presented a petition against the Shipley
and Collie Eaten ion Itailw•ay Bill.