The Sun.
London, England, 1829-06-20 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONi.-(LAST NIGHT.)

At a Quarter before Four o'clock the SPEAKER
proceeded to the House of Lords, to hear the Royal
klsent given by Commission to several Bills—for
Which see Lords' Report.

ST. JAMES'S, WESTMINSTER.
On the motion of Mr. iiOI3IIOUSE, it was ordered
thatl,, all the vouchers arid receipts presented to the
'louse on the 12th of May, 1828, by Mr. Knight,
:*ltry-elerk of St. James's, Westminster, be re-
4rted to him.

SIR T. M. WILSON'S ESTATE BILL.
thitß. GORDON presented a petition against
N* siill., It was signed, he said, by three copy-
dera of HaniOstead only, Mr. Brodie, Sir T.
elite and Mr Ingram. The paucity of signatures
4
ttlintelied to it arose from want of time to procure
°re • if further time had been allowed, the peti•
tic'ner; would have been more numerous.
ti The petition was then brought up, read, and or-
ered-tatie-qpiin the table; as was a similar petition
2%-other two copyholders of the manor of Hamp-
-14,3
CU) who prayed to be heard against this Bill by
Zitselyes.or their counsel.
IV'' l'.' PERCEVAL moved that the report on
1421 son's (Building Leases) Estate Bill be now
! 'eLpived..
t'"ii: IL GORDON rose to object to the recep-
::ll of this report. He understood the motion to
ki that the report on the Estate Bill of Sir Thomas
4t 11" Yen Wilson, the Lord of the Manor of Itamp-
totztd, be now received,—a Bill' which he conceived
b, 9N so objectionable in every point of view, that
qh_ felt it to be his duty to seize the very earliest
470rtunity to oppose it. Thii Bill professed to be
ov-t;state•Bill; but 'in point of fact it is a Bill to
IN ° to the Lord of the Manor of Hampstead cer-
-I;owers over the ,copyholders of that manor
Leh Jae does not possess at present. Great doubts
11,74tertained as to the correctness of the forms
itj, which this Bill is introduced to our notice.
4, _4'l' Persons are inclined to think that it partakes
.mach of the nature of an Enclosure Bill, that it
I:n't not-to be introduced here without proof that
til notices, &c., required in Enclosure Bills had been
i,eand formally given. Then there was a second
eetinn in point of form, which he was himself in-
heed to think was a valid objection—namely, that
he "Ilholders ought to have had regular notice of
gltention to bring in this Bill, and he was pre-
-4" to. prove that they had not. There
1 hiehelso a third objection in point of form,
'ill he considered to be decisive, This
isitPabled the Steward of the manor of Hamp.
old t° collect sums of money of the copy-
1ta..."1 for licences to improve their tenements on
to,h:tste-: -it was therefore a money Bill, and ought
ntigi've origifiatedin this House-instead of having
ittwznited in llns--House,of Lords. —lndependently,
htline!ers of the objections which he had to urge
Lt
tijt
us this Bill in point of form, he had several ob-
Riii,ti to urge against it, arising out of the injury
it Waa calculated to inflict upon copyholdets

question respecting Hampstead-heath He (Nr.
S. Perceval) denied that there was in the Bill a

single syllable enabling the Lord to enclose one atom
of the heath. Jf the Lord of the Manor had poweo
to enclose the heath, he had that power at present

of the manor, and also upon the inhabitants of the without this Bill : if he had not that power, this
village of Hampstead. This Bill assumes as fact Bill would not give it bhn. The public, therefore,
that the copyholders lisve no right to improve their needed not to be under any alarm as to the effects
premises without licence from the lord ; it assumes of this Bill. If; however, they wished to be safe,
that they have tie right to dig for clay on the let them strike out the last clauses in the schedule of
waste ; and it assumes that there is a eel taut cus- this Bill, and the right to build on the heath
torn within the manor. All these three points are would stand as it 'lid before. lie would now address
assumed in this Bill; and he was informed that the House as to ;he questien of Hampstead-heath,
these assumptions were pregnant with consequences so far as it regamded the public.—(Loud cries of
highly dangerous to the interests of the copy- hear.)—He went along with those who considered
holders. The copyholders complain that in this this as a public question ; and therefore he would
House they have had no opportunity given them . repeat his opinion, that if they struck out of this
to establish their case against the lord of the Bill the words which related to the waste of Hemp-
manor: and they further state, that in the stead, the public would have no interest in the fate
other House of Parliament, the motion for allowing of this Bill. He then proceeded to read to the
the Bill to go to a Committee was only carried by a i House a clause in p. 15 of the Bill, and another
majority of one. 'they then state that after the clause in the last page of the Bill, for the purpose of
Bill was read a third time in the House of Lords, it showing that those clauses had been introduced to
was brought down here, and was read a first time, satisfy the scruples of such copyholders as supposed
and was then read a second time, without having that they would be deemed to have no right to ins-
that notice of the second reading given which is re. prove their tenements without licence from the Lord
quired in all cases where opposition is expected. It of the Manor, because it gave the Lord power to
was then ordered to be committed on the very day grant such licence. He then proceeded to point out
upon which this House was to re-assemble after the the difference between the last petition to the House
adjournment. It is well known that this House is of Lords against the Bill and the first, which erne-
supposed to meet at seven o'clock in the morning, Dated from a majority of the respectable residents at
though it is equally well known that in point of fact Hampstead, who were quite satisfied with the saving
it does not meet till four o'clock in the afternoon. clauses respecting the part of the heath of which the
The Committee met in the morning of that day, copyholders complained. He hoped the House
and so many members of it failed to attend, that the would not agree to this amendment, but allow the
Bill might as well never have been committed at all. Bill to pass, so as to enable the Lord of the Manor
He said that if this Bill were now recommitted, to enter into an agreement which would hind his
as in point of justice it ought to be, he could i successor in the disposition of his estate.
make out on behalf of the copyholders such a Mr. BERNAL would not be satisfied with the
case as Parliament would think unobjectionable. sort of compromise which was held out, and the
He thought, however, that the best course which more so, as eminent counsel, such as Mr. Bicker-
he could pursue at this period of the Session steth and Mr. Richards, and he could now add
was to oppose the bringing up of this report altoge- Sir C. Wetherell, concurred in opinion that
ther, and to tnove that it be received this day three important rights of the copyholders would be affect-
months. He thought it right to state, that he pro- ed by the Bill, notwithstanding the description
posed this amendment on wider grounds than the in- given of these saving clauses : for instance, it was
Jury which this Bill was calculated to inflict upon proposed that the Lord or Lady of the Manor,
the rights of the copyholders. He said that if all i after Sir Thomas M. Wilson, should have the power
the copyholders had assented to it, he should have of conferring licenses to copyholders to dig for sand,
felt inclined to object to this Bill on behalf of the and other uses, upon the payment of 40s. for each
public of this great metropolis.—(Loud cries of license, and three guineas to the steward ; but the
" hear" from various parts of the House.)—He s Lord might refuse, if he pleased, to grant such
knew that it was not the fashion of the present day licence, while, on the other hand, the parties at
to think much of the comforts arid amusements of present insisted they could avail themselves of the
the lower orders. This Bill, he was prepared to i heath, in this manner, without his leave, or any
prove, infringed both upon their comforts and upon j further payment, upon their existing tenure. He
their amusements. It infringed not only upon the certainly knew tenants on the court-roll who de-
comforts and amusements of the lower orders, but dared they had this privilege. Besides, he was in-
also upon those of the higher ; for there was scarcely informed that in the schedule of this Bill there were
a gentleman who heard him that did not derive plots of land inserted as freeholds, which the tenants
benefit either for himself or for his children from declared themselves in a condition to prove were not
the open heath of Hampstead. Now this Bill pro- such. He regretted that any difficulty should have
fesses to encourage the copyholders to build upon been imposed upon the settlement of any gentle-
that heath. It was, therefore, an appeal to the wis- man's estate in the manner he thought proper; but
dom of Parliament to afford them that encourage- he really thought when such clashing titivate in-
ment. He hoped that Parliament would not listen t terests and public convenience were involved, the
to that appeal. If the copyholders have facilities at best way was to let the business stand over until it
present for building on the heath, let them enjoy their could be fully and fairly discussed for all parties,
facilities; but if they have not, let us not consent which could not be at this late stage of the Ses-
to place them in their hands. On behalf of the sion.
copyholders whose-'-rights it infringed, and on be- Mr. LITTLETON, although "surprised the copy-
half of the public whose comforts it invaded, he holders had not come forward in due time to oppose
called upon the House not to accept the report on the progress of this bill, arid allow their claims to be
this Bill. investigated, yet could not give his consent to the fur-
Mr. STEWART (Beverley, we believe,) se- ther progress of the Bill, under existing circumstances.
conded the amendment. The estate which Sir T. Sir J. YORKE—" Mr. Speaker, it is time to
M. Wilson possessed at Hampstead was originally stop with these enclosures of waste land in the
acquired by his father. His father gave to the pre- neighbourhood of the metropolis; for if we go on
sent Sir T. Wilson his estates in other parts of the in this manner, we shall shut out time whole western
couniev in fee simple; but he only gave him a life air of this great town from which the Hygeian
estate in the manor of Hampstead. It was evident breezes spring.—(A laugh)—O, but it is said that
therefore from the will of the predecessor of the pre- we are to have a part of the heath left to breathe
sent Sir T. M. Wilson, which was recited in this upon it, if we can wade to it over brick buildings.—
Bill, that be never intended any part of his manor (A cry of No, no.')—Well, if I urn wrong, I
of Hampstead to be parcelled out in the way in will not say a word more about it. Thus it was with
which its pressent possessor now intended. A copy- the Regent's-park, where I remember the public were
holder of the• manor of Hampstead--a gentleman of anxious to stop the building of houses, particularly in
*Teat respectability—had informed him (Mr. S.) the northern part, and were disposed even to
that the father of Sir T. M. Wilson had himself purchase ground to put an end to it. However, the
wished to enclose a spot of ground on the waste attempt to interfere got into marvellous bad odour,
adjoining to a farm of his own. He applied to the and the buildings went on. I differ with the Hon.
copyholders fo r leave to enclose it, and gained it on Member who spoke last, for I think the Government
the express coeulition that no other spot but that for ought not to be indifferent on these occasions. They
which he asked leave should he enclosed. Now, ought not silently to look on and see a population of
other spots were sought to he enclosed, and if this 1,200,000 congregated in this city, and hemmed in
Bill should be e.ermitted to pass into law, it would on all sides, at the will and mercy of a few private
enable Sir T. Wilson to violate the pledge given individuals. Why so uneasy about a new Police
by his late father. The Bill throughout spoke of the Bill for the metropolis, if they were to be so indif-
freehold tenure of the waste being in Sir T. M. ferent to their health and enjoyments ? The fact is,
Wilson as lord of the manor. Now, he had already the town was now so elongated, and the old environs
proved that Sir M. Wilson was only tenant for so built upon, that a gentleman must alter his time
life; and the co pyholdess of Hampstead likewise of setting out on a journey to meet these improve-
denied that the waste belonged to him in fee simple. ments as they were called. If you say you must set
They declared that they had a part in it; and having off at twelve o'clock in the day, your friend asks
such part in it, they had a right to oppose this Bill : you why not stay till four o'clock ; you reply,
the inhabitants of L ondon had also a right to oppose why it will take me till four o'clock to get
it. No place was so advantageous to them for the out of the streets.—(A laugh.)--Why should
restoration of their health as the heath at Hamp- all the Hampstead people, instead of having
stead.—(Hear, hen r.)—lt was a common source of the country before them, have now an hour or two
good to all classes in the metropolis ; and even employed to get clear of the bricks ? I will vote
artists were in the habit of going to Hampstead against all compromise, for I am for keeping Sir
heath to draw sketmehes of the metropolis.—(Laugh- Thomas Maryon Wilson where he is, and as he is,
ter.)—He cordially seconded the amendment. (Loud laughter.)—Why not stop on the heath, us
Mr. S. PERCEVAL felt confident that if Hon. his ancestors did who left it for hint, and not want
Gentlemen would attend to his statement, they to grasp at the enjoyments of others, until, like
would not consent to the amendment proposed by the fable, he loses the substance to grasp at a
the Hon. Member for Cricklade, but would permit shadow ?"
the report of this Bill to be received. He begged So-angers were ordered to quit the gallery for a
the House to observe, that the opposition of the division, when
Hon. Member for 'Cricklade was made partly on be- Mr. PERCEVAL said, that in obedience to the
half of the copyholders of Hampstead, and partly on wish expressed, he would not put them to the
behalf of the public of this great metropolis. With trouble of a division, but would withdraw the Bill,
respect to the filet ground of the Hon. Member's (Hear, hear.)—lt was accordingly withdrawn.
opposition,—namely, the infringement committed on Mr. PEEL presented a number of papers, show-
the rights and interests of the copyholders,—he ing the proceedings between Great Britain and
begged the House to remember diet the Hon. Germ- Portugal; and the treaty with Mexico, relating (as
dollen had not, in the whole course of his speech, we understood) to sugars.—Laid on the table, and
pointed out a single point in which those rights had ordered to be printed.
been invaded. He stated, indeed, that they had Mr. S. RICE presented a petitition from Mr.
been invaded; but he did not offer one iota of proof Thomas Dillon, complaining of the Limerick-roads
to show how they had been invaded. The lion. Bill.
Member had commenced his observations by speak- Thorndike's Divorce Bill was read a first and
ing of the manner in which this Bill had been second time, and ordered to be committed on Mon-
brought in here, and had complained of the hurry day. Mr. Thorndike was called in to the bar to
wth which it had been attempted to smuggle it verify his petition.
through Parliament. [The lion. Gentleman then Lord F. L. GOWER brought up the report of
stated the variou son which the petition for time the Select Committee on the Irish estimates.—
Bill, the first • " d reading of time Bill, the Laid on the table, and ordered to be printed.
committal of thi. and the third reading of the Lord F. L. GOWER presented a petition from
Bill, had taken IA& in the House of Lords; but Mr. A. Nimmo, Government civil engineer in Ire-
his statement was so indistinct that it was impos- land, in reply to certain• statements, affecting his
sible to comprehend it in the gallery.] The official and professional character, that had been
House must he aware of the sensation which submitted to that House a few weeks since in a
had been excited by the Newspapers respecting petition complaining of his conduct in the making
this Bill. It had been called a Bill for enclosing of a road in the county of Galway. The Noble
Hampstead-heath. Now he denied that it was an Lord stated, in support of the petition, that the
Inclosure Bill in any acceptation of the terms known charges advanced in the former one had been found
to the English language. It was simply a Bill to be groundless, and were the more ungracious, as
enabling the lord of the manor, being tenant for they were made without any intimation to Mr.
life, to enter into certain agreements, into which he Nimmo, the party affected by them.
could not enter as tenant for life, but into which he After a few words from Mr. FITZGERALD to the
could enter as lord of the fee.--(Here the lion. same effect, the petition was ordered to be printed.
Gentleman read a clause of the Bill to prove this Lord F. L. GOWER presented a petition from
assertion.)—He would now state to them very the Solicitors arid Attorneys of Cork, for an increase
shortly how Sir T. M. Wilson was situated. Some of fee in civil bill cases.
years ago there was a Bill brought into this Ilouse PROPERTY TAX.
to make a road, which passed through one of his Mr. BENETT presented a petition from Mr. J.
farms in Hampstead. He opposed that Bill with Mansen, of Hackney, praying the House to levy
all his might anti main. The Committee would not Property Tax for the purpose of effecting a reduc-
listen to his opposition ; but, as he understood, one tion of taxes through a diminution of the funded debt.
main reason for passing the Bill, to which Sir T. After a few words from Mr. Hunts the petition
Wilson objected, was, that it would improve his was ordered to be printed.
estate by giving him a further frontage. As he was Mr. HOI3HOUSE brought up the Report of the
merely a tenant for life, he could not grant building Committee on Vestry Laws and Usages.—To be
leases; and, therefore, he derived no benefit from printed.
the extended frontage which that Bill gave him. Mr. W. PEEL laid on the table the 21st Report
Now this Bill merely empowers him to grant li- of the Commissioners on Public Charities.—To be
cences, to make improvements on the tenements printed.
already erected—and that is its sum and substance,
and no more.—(The Hon. Gentleman here entered
into some details respecting the Bill, which the hum
of conversation prevailing in the House, and the
low tone of voice in which he spoke, prevented us
from hearing.)—How could this' be considered as a