The Sun.
London, England, 1842-06-15 00:00:00

1 ere it should rest with himself. He did not feel called upon
onPase oropesitian of the G ivernment.
aim,' that .:e had fiat a single &Lest
on the important subjact now before the Committee.
The proposition of liar Majesty's Government coincided
with the opinions of men of the highest scientific distinc-
tion in the country, one of whom declared that to txpod
Coat would he to waste the vitals of their posterity.—(Laughter.)
He should cordially support the proposition of the Government.
'llr F. BARING opposed the proposition of the Govern-
ment, and supported the amendment of his Noble Friend. He
- • was in no small degree surprised at the course pursued by the
- -Noble Lord who had just sat down, because he said he shou'd
vote fur this proposition because he thought it would check
the exportation of coal, while with the same breath he
stated that he believed it would have the effect of con-
suming the vitals of posterity.--( Hear, hear. ) It he
Was to adopt the proposal of the Government he
• should be blowing hot- and cold with the same breath.
He owned that he felt some alarm when he found it admitted,
on all hands, that 'we were now engaged in a neck-and-neck
rate with the foreigner. That was admitted even by those
. Hon- Gentlemen who professed themselses ready to vote with
the Government. The result of imposing the proposed duty
' would be to give a great advantage to the foreigner in his
competition with the proprietor of coal in this country. On
these grounds he entirely coincided in the views of his Noble
Friend the Member for Sunderland.
Sir R. PEEL said that the prevailing feeling left on his
-Mind by the speeches he had heard that evening, was
- one of cordial satisfaction that the Income-tax had
• bien secured..—( Hear, hear.) The proposal of the
_ ble Lord the Member for London was, that they should
raise 3000,000/. or 4,000,000/. by taxes upon consumption.
a: That was the object of the memorable resolutions directed
• . ligainSt the Income-tax by the Noble Lord, in which he tried
to collect as large a force as he could under his banner. The
Noble Lord had insinuated that 23,000,000/. of taxes had been
• rePealed previous to the year 1836, and that they should now
unPose a portion of those taxes for the purpose of increasing
the revenue. That was the inference to be drawn nom the
‘2°ltrac pursued by the Noble Lord, although he might not
have said so in express terms. Now, where he (Sir R. Peel)
Pr°Posed to raise by a duty upon coals a portion of the three
Millions or the four milliocs to be secured by the Income-
tars he was met with an oposition that Made him
rP•i'lice that the Income-tax was beyond the reach of
- honourable Gentlemen opposite. It was admitted, however,
that the present proposal with respect to the coal-tax
was in-
• "eta better than that which the Government had originally
• introdueed. Now, that which was infinitely better, could not
-•'• - be. said to be very tad. If one system were infinitely better
than another, it must have been, at least, or, the high road to
perfection.—( Laughter. ) The Government proposal was sup-
• PGrted by the coal trade.--(No, no.) He did not say it was
aaPPorted universally by the trade, but it was pretty generally
supported: • It was alleged, -however, that a compromise had
• been effected between the Government and the trade, and that
ss" la.he sentPr proposal had been the result of that compromise.
when had heard that statemi sit he thought Hon. Members
were abt tit to reret•the alleged compromise to the Committee
(the Hon. and:Learned Gentleman the Member for Bath.—
A laugh.) -But seriously, for his part, he could say he had
entered inta no compromise.—( Hear, hear.) He had mei ely
Pursued
.the course which he thought, upon the
whole, it would be advisable to follow. The Noble
Lord
- oPpo,,ite (Lord Howick) came over the pre-
,. /tons night and made a proposition to his Noble Friend (Lord
labd°ll), and said, " If you bring your duty down to 6s. or 75.,
aaaltall'aupport you, but not above that."—(Hear and a laugh.)
why should not the Government, in a case so much affecting
the public interest, be allowed, as well as the Noble Lord, in the
"se of sugar or coffee?—( Hear and a laugh.) All the nego-
,.- t:ltbations that had taken place cn this subject were published in
papers--( Hear)—and yet these negotiations
spoken of as secret and unworthy compromises.—( Hear.)
;L..a"' would return to another part of the subject. The state of
an__! revenue wag embarrassed, and here was an article—not ea-
"lta rble of reproduction—in which this country had natural
• irages--( Hear, hear.) He would not say that it was de- -
z4t_ arphottoof prevent the exportation of English coal for the
on putting dawn foreign manufacturea. He would
1,, • a saY do not altogether lose the advantage offered of aub-
.. teta lag it to revenue—( Hear, hear)—and he would show that
duty Proposed would not tend to prevent the exportation.
hthe years from 1836 to 1841, he exportation..mt coal had
en from 736,000 to 1,848,000 tons:( Hear, hear.) 'I hat
. °wed that it was an article which, would bear a duty, and he
:Lould not think that a duty of ls. or 2s. would ply- an end to
kese_li an exportation.—( Hear.) And he had the authority of no
ao economist than Mr. Warburton, for saying that it vtas
..• 2t desirable to encourage the exportation of British coal. But
ha7l'9, other hand it was said, that foreign countries would take
t age at this attempt at restricting the exportation. Now,
je"? was the poicy of foreign countries themselves on the sub-
In the Mediterranean ports, Francelaid a duty of 4s. 6,!.
on foreign coals imported in French vessels, and 6s. 3d.
• La," they were imported in foreign vessels.—(Hear, hear. )
jars" on other parts of her coasts she charged 4s a ton on coals
Ported in French, and Bs. in English vessels. In Holland
aar.iic7a..,tar was 6s. 10d. a ton. In the United States, which
with sume of otir coals, -a duty of 6s. Bd. per ton. So it was
;lora. Sweden, Sardinia, and Prussia. He thought that when
eah:grl countries did this, they had no right to have the ad-
-•thermagtse of our coals, and to have an extensive revenue from
arid; "esides--( Hear, hear. ) Besides, this was not like silk
butit.ther articles,' which could be reproduced almost without
coal
llow, it might be true that some foreign countries had
France, and look to the comparative extent of the carbonife-
. ;7* strata. The superficial area of the coal tracks in France,
t•tobsmore than one two-hundredth part of the whole, whereas
M England one-twentieth. He thought, therefore, that
• Lai pa was to be feared from the competition cf the French
'".pawhatever encouragement might be given to them.—
te-hear.) Notwithstanding the heavy duty imposed
its outs coals by the French Government, still the
in Vaatalion was large ; and in some towns, as, for instance,
'-lia-;'"teat the consumption was entirely of English coal.
°old read a letter which he had received on this subject.
name.) He could assure the Committee that it was
;-ated h"-",de letter, from a person engaged in manufactures,
aa e noped he should not be called on to injure him by a
aa„ h..)atire of his name. (The letter stated that the writer had
Casti;;;Fe__tion to publish the fact that the coalowners of New-
-ete t 'and Durham had refused to let him have small coal
to seetd'oe exportation, and that some time back they refused
it scrap hint 200 tons, unless he went to the expense of having
threme(' at 4s. per ton and in consequence he did not get
Intro ) • There was something, continued the Right Hon.
• th„enet, in this, which he did not understand; hut certainly
the e was a general impression among the manufacturers
• acaii rattitry that there was a higher price demanded for small
'Area t,:l,t was to be used in domestic manufacture, than if it
titingeet ue exported. He made every allowance for theeltr.
Lexpenses, but still that was the general impression.
aaesttl"at was a rather unfair disadvantage to w.hieht, the do-
tray' Manufacturer was exposed. —( Hear,,„ hear.) He
.04 quite aware that no duty coul4„, be impost d
1t."7,Y article without producing . tome. disadvantage,
• thea;'"id trust that under all the particular circumstances' of
• laatraesent time, seeing the great financial exertions the House
taa,,,tre.en called on to make, remembering the duty now pro-
tareign "o he laid on was imposed on'the same article by every
TuntrYt he hoped the HoUse would not deprive them of
'ltot ittarP'Y to be derived from a duty that it was believed would
-etnaitilba.re either the shipping or commercial interests of the
A.JH
'aid ,VAIE rose amid loud cries of " Divide, divide." He
%tiro: VOW' 'Hon. Gentleman had mixed up two questions
bleat 0C ifferent. The whole matter depended on an airange-
tiderocclue trade with the shipping, and ought not to be con-
the eb- at all. They had been told that science had assisted
1144 e aocellor of the Exchequer in the proposition he had
ite la' a tie thought no one connected with, commerce could
„.,41atae. ;le a proposal so contrary to all the sound principles of
.*Posse, WaS limiting the market of a commodity which they
4ttesed in abundance. His objeetiorvato the proposition
telf cm the declare tions the Right flolo.'Gentleman had him-
ortde.
Tbs•duty on exportation lessened the consumption,
!Ike when the market forit ; they had a proof of what took
pht to the duty, was formerly imposed, and had they not a
larerojaectaPect that .the-same effect would be produced again ?
Zaistay ,aed theaAight Hon. Baronet that no act of the Whig
a„-:4'boree /ao-aarelcomed as the reduction cf the duty on
fteY,„at, ,e°al all the credit that England then gained
• was. itta-lose by the ro osition of the Government.
iragaiport.ist all sound policy to lay a duty on exports instead
`
ietaa, f `s• Believing that there was no special ground its
tay or departing from the neral rule, he would cer-
a.,l, vote for the e
11,7 e• laam„ n ire removal of the tax.
tasll'arth of HINDE said the body of the coal trade in
ht Gover_ England had agreed to accept the proposition of
h. oe.si,ament. He agreed with the estimate of the Right
Zoana
rag wllitjeanan the late Chancellor of the Exchequer as to the
FO'_,e.tl was likely to be derived to the revenue from this
is`ght4u, old not think that it would amount, as estimated by the
liepellt,ll..aronet at the head of the Government, to 140,0001.
ld 4suetore they divided that the Right Hon. Baronet
repera".toy them as to the time when the duty would come
14:- ttrialical,l n ; that was a most important point to the brokers.
pof ‘,to dispel the groundless alarm which, from the st ate-
are(' e !an Noble Lord the Member for Hertford, it ap-
eiza tested with re rd to the duration of the coal mines.
iNdee hgae held in his.hand he could state that one
the North extended for fifty miles in length by fif-
e'lltie?,4itptliaorneaaftlEi ; that field would be sufficient to supply
114vidckala,"1%
;had been madet'gla nod
.for next. I,te.ono
that the
ea
avers;
rtah4ant
th:trlty..lo,°; Ihe coal was eliognht feeaet's,amaelroeas it was nearly
eventf f-leet—( Hear, hear)—and he would further state
algatistea:.t, e coal fieldsof Northumberland and Durham were
7eonsusaautF coal in the West Wold would be sufficient for
turd ju:Ptlnn of the United Kingdom for 2,000 years.
'1 Iliearisfieor RUSSELL oas desirous, before the House went
, of statilig the reasons which induced him with
against the proposition of his Noble Friend, the
alipatt- "annderland, and to oppose the views of his Right
14atabefareod the Illember for Portsmouth.—( Hear, hear.)
Rise, his vothe stated the grounds on which he was about to
Itght- Ha e, he felt it necessary to allude to the speech of the
tiat ai 4. Gentleman, at the commetcement of which the
I...,eeet,sar„ Gentleman had, as he (Lord J. Russell) thought
;rtaand
v7iL, alluded to the difficulties in which he had been
he Li 'h had induced him to propose the imposition
that enMe•tax. The Right Honourable Gentleman
it
.the
eione taXes which had been proposed in place
aaa,llo:tposendi rn_e-taxt had been taxes on articles which,
'14111.: that arwtiti'llid have been the destruction of the
L, tazi job ele- Now the basis of the propositions which
west rie shwa_ n Russell) had brought forward was a reduction
rion i'" on corn and sugar, Nowwith regard to the
6 dee' mmediately b
tpoi at ere hey ed solely efore the House, if the question were to
upon the principles of trade, if the question
ion discassi
of rig was whether they should prohibit the ..x-
-.l4i;oreigo whether they should prevent the manufacture's
ht
..euentries from deriving the advantage which they
iii4tniensa eTa ultiropinropu:silitf our coal, he certainly should not conser.t
th°a• But if the Right Honourable
Vice-President of the Board of Trade,
I,llaltised -Issae:ldede cal those
attbaitet:thef theraifint'iralgt e
of revenue—(
arguments, and had at once
object the Government had in view
Hear, hear)—in the present
1414-";:e. :enreabtlh"e nea:aces s they had to consider if the tax was of so
,07t,Ilst, it. 'itgwnature that the House was bound to vote
said that the trade would be destroyed. If
healtiekquzn, s
‘: the revenue could not be obtained, and the
toe !!royednwtouldlnaelh., would go to show that the trade would
w.-00ufdo to show that as a measure of reve-
-11411t" he raeasure
:think hat ittuat that ease h
tieuiti
heal t,rade w e useless. But he did not
thwoulti be had been made nut. He admitted
hipeclrous experiment. But he did not
I.ety to be .decreaadsebtriliy itze•reparsi(n)pgosifotironmabneyfoyr-eeatri:e,
°Jar A duty f
41- might perhaps have fiscted a serious
teal tax 'lade- A statement had been made that tl.e
and t w°llld amount t
tai that that 0 a higher dut 0 a duty of 25 per cent. on round
on small coal. He 'did not think
,4,)-bldishalaroapeirust manner ot computing the amount of the
metrzod of computation was to curl icier what
a be the'4.2":611 enalsP.ergonwtag.e. on the price of coals with' the duty
sne price of British coals at Marseilles
tht4a at"; at
Irtitr that woultitertilam it was 235. An addition of 225.
.Jer That duty°wn-oYiadninunt to 9or 10 per cent. upon
!.,;;;;I:t.410 German ',andl ;apernoia,lesset:.l
sol}_ hie 1837 the ex export not be destructive to the trade.
Denmark, to America to
Fr had increased, Under those
ts inYu'es, the avenue 4, t that pry to the trade, could be raised without
1:1 under those circumstances he
,tr,sit'v,.._ettltt'.e6;lllo4ll,;d,,,,not be justified in refusing the Government
Ord as Injer tt.to/., which could be obtained without any
la% been He wished that the opinion of the coalowners
influenced by the threat which had beer, held out