The Sun.
London, England, 1827-05-12 00:00:00

SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 12, 1827.

PUBLICATIONS.

This day was published, in 6vo. Is. 6d.

A SECOND LETTER to the RIGHT
HON. GEORGE CANNING.

By the Rev. H. PHILLPOTTS, D.D.
Rector of Stanhope.
Printed for John Murray, Albemarle-street.

Also a SIXTH Edition of Dr. PIULLPOTTS' FIRST LETTER
to the Right Hon. GEORGE CANNING, SVO. 3s. 6d.

NEW MINISTRY-NEW JOURNAL.

'THE ROYAL YORK WILL BE PUB-
-1- LISHED TO-MORROW, AT THE OFFICE,
166, STRAND. _ . .

" Truly, if the last Administration was composed of tape
and buckram, the present is that of a tailor, compelled to
cut his coat according to his cloth—and which, being
without the tape and buckram, cannot fit."—Address to
the King.

1-11-IE LONDON AND WESTMINS-
TER WINE and SPIRIT COMPANY, No. 16,
STRAND, opposite St. Martin's Church, have constantly
on Sale- Per Dozen.
Port, Vintage 1820 27s. to 30s.
Ditto, Crusted 36s. to 425.
Ditto, five to eight years in bottle... 4Bs. to b6s.
Sherry, Pale and Brown 27s. to 365.
Ditto, Amontillado
Cape, from
Madeira, West India ... 36s. to 425.
Ditto, East India 4Bs. to 60s.
Teneriffe, Lisbon, Vidonia, and Mountain 3os. to 365.
Bueellas
Claret, St. Julien 42s. to 48s.
Ditto, Lafitte and Margaux 72s. to 965.
Sparkling Champagne 72s. to 84s.
Ditto, and Creaming, of the first quality 9o=. to 965.
St. Peray, dry and sparkling
Chablis
Hermitage, Red and White '72s. to 84s.
Moselle, Sauterne, &c sos. to 60s.

Old Tom, Jamaica Ruin, Cognac Brandy, Fern-tosh,
&c. per imperial measure, at reduced prices.—Bottled
Stout, Cider, Perry, Burton, and Edinburgh Ales.
lEF All goods must be paid for on or before delivery.
' Letters (post ptrid) to be addressed to William Godfree
and Co., No. 16, Strand.

p CLARK'S GENERAL OUTFIT-
".• TING WAREHOUSE, for the EAST and
WEST INDIES and SOUTH AMERICA, EXETER
'CHANGE, STRAND.

Officers, Cadets, and Writers going to India, and Gen-
tlemen proceeding- to South America, or any other part
of the Globe, will find in this Establishment the whole
of their Military Appointments, Swords, Chacos, Sashes,
Belts, Pistols, 8:c. together with a large and well-manu-
factured stack of Sea Cots, Couches, and Bedding; Cabin
Wash -hand Tables, Chairs, ,and Lamps ; Sea Chests,
Mule and Bullock Trunks, and every other description
of Travelling Equipage.
AN ASSORTMENT OF CANTEENS, ready fitted
with the necessary requisites for India and other tropical
climates; likewise a great variety of Silver and Plated
Articles, Knives and Forks, suitable for families going
abroad ; Military and Hindostannee Books, Maps, &c.
A FASHIONABLE STOCK of Carriage, Curride,
Tandem, Phirton, Stanhope arid Chaise HARNESS, with
every description of Saddlery, &c. &c. for home use, East
and West Indies, and South America, which merit inspec-
tion from their excellent quality, first style of workman-
ship, and moderate prices.
All the Articles in this Establishment are warranted,
and the excellent plan of fifty years standing is still strictly
adhered to, of asking one Ready Money Price, but from
which no abatement will be made.

MEETINGS OF CREDITORS.

LONDON DIARY.—TrEsnA,

Commissioners, I
Badnall and Co., Leek lO
Bally, J., Bristol
Bensusan, C., Tottenham-
court-road ll
Brown, A., Hull ll
Burnett, F. St. Mary at Hill 11
Cole, M., Sackville-street
Campbell, C., Bishopsgate-
street
Charlesworth, I'., Bethnal

2, .7
green
Dodd, W., Liverpool l2
Fuchs, J., Finsbury square ll
lleill, G. Clerkeuwell
Hobson, E., Shoreditch ll
Hodges, D., Liverpool ll
Hole, W. Edgware road ll
llowitt, M., Holborn N
Jackson, J., Poultry ...
Jameson, A., Bethnal green 11
Line, W., Camden town

COUNTRY DIAIt
Ainley, J. Sarkisland, Halifax-
Halifax

r, MAT Is.—(At the Court of
3asingliall-street.)
'Jay and Co., Burlington-
' gardens lO
Lacy, J.' Cranbourne-st.
...s, 1
Leonard, C., Warren-mew
Fitzroy-square lO
Marsh, A., Great Scotland
yard
Paterson, J., Liverpool
Rivenall, A., Clorkenwell ll
Robertson, J., Clerken well 10
Rumball, S., Park-place
Shurnier, J., Shirley
Smith, G., Henry-street,
Waterloo road ll
Stalker and Co., Leadcnhall

street • lO
Thomason, W., Shadwcll
TrigwQll, J., t. John-street

road ll
Turner, 1. Queen-strut

—TUESDAY, MAT 15.
Office of Messrs. Alexander,

Anderson, R., Manchester—Star, Manchester ll
Cooper, W., Weston—Swan, Bristol 1
Coombs, J., Ansford—Lamb, Hindon
Crossley, 'l'., Elland—Swan, Halifax
Dinsdale, J., Middleham, Yorkshire—Bishop Blaize inn,
Richmond
11
Elsworth, J., Bowling—Messrs. Alexander, Halifax 1
Garton, J., Castle Donnington—Office Mr. Snelson, Castle
Donnington
Hole, M., Kingerswell—Globe, N: wton Abbot ...............
' Homfray 'F., Hyde—Wheatsheaf, Bewdley .. ...... ..
Horsfall,T. Halifax—Messrs. Alexander, Halifax
Kershaw, le., Dukinfield in Stockport—White's hotel, Man-
chester
Parker and Co., Birmingham—Royal hotel, Birmingham
Roberts, J., Newport—Red Lion, Newport to
Sibson, J., Newcastle—Half Moon, Newcastle on Tyne ll
Smith, G. Newcastle—Half Moon, Newcastle
Spencer, g., Leeds—Court house, Leeds lO
Wharton, J., Manchester—White's, Manchester g

INSOLVENTS APPLYIN'
Petitions to be heard at Portug
MAY 16,
Brazier, J., Long Acre
Constantine, L., Upper York-st.
Bryanstone-square
Green, W., Soho
Harding, T., Finsbury
Holyoake, W., Whitechapcl
Jones, D., Fetter-lane
Overend, F., Great Marlboro'.
street

G TO BE DISCHARGED,
pl-street,
, NINE.
Millis, J., Marylebonc
l'otter, J., Lambeth
Searlett, J., Rotherhithe
Sharp, G., Heston
Taylor, .1., Kenton-street
Truman, J., Finsbury
Trust, R., Lambeth
Wedlake, 8., Spa-fields

About thre:: o'clock 7esterday lfternoon a
most frightful scene was witnessed in Piccadilly. A young
female was observed on the outside of a window, on the
attic story of a house in Titchborne-street, cleaning it,
when suddenly her feet slipped off the window stone, and
she must inevitably have been dashed to pieces on the pave-
ment below, had not her hands providentially come in con-
tact with the frame of the window, to which, having
grasped tfirmly, she clung, literally suspended for at
last two minutes, that period of time having elapsed be-
fore any assistance could be rendered her. It is impossible
to describe the sensation of horror which seized those who
witnessed the appalling spectacle, every second expecting
that the poor girl's strength would fail her, and that she
would drop into the street. It would be equally difficult to
describe the joy that was manifested when the poor girl
was rescued from her perilous situation.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY 11.

Several Bills were forwarded in their respective stages.

CORN LAWS.

The Duke of NORTHUMBERLAND presented a peti-
tion from the owners and occupiers of land in a parish of
the county of Northumberland, against any alteration in
the Corn Laws.

Lord GAGE presented a similar petition from Robert's
Bridge, in Sussex.

The Marquis of ABIN•GDON, presented a similar one
from Wotton.--The petitions were laid on the table.
The Postage Duties Regulation Bill was read a second
tune.

Mr. SMITH, from the• Commissioners of Richmond
Bridge, presented the Annual Accounts.

NEW ADMINISTRATION.

Earl GROSVENOR, seeing a Noble Earl in his place,
begged to remind him that he had, a few evenings since,
given notice of his intention of bringing under their
Lordships' consideration the state of the nation, and
three other questions of very great importance, namely,
Parliamentary Reform, Catholic Emanciption, and the
abolition of Sinecure Offices. These were subjects in which
he always telt a deep interest, and when they were brought
forward, he was determined to express his reasons for
giving his Iminble support to the present Administration.
Ile wished to know from the Noble Earl whether he had
yet made up his mind as to the particular day on which he
intended to submit his motion.

The Earl of WINCHELSEA—If 1 were to follow my
own feelings rather than the dictates of prudence, I cer-
tainly, I do assure your Lordships, would not lose a mo-
ment in bringing forward the motion to which the Noble
Earl has alluded. But, understanding that certain of the
Noble Lords opposite are only provisionally placed in the
situations which they now occupy, I deemed it prudent to
wait the result ofa few days. lam anxious, my Lords, to see
whether any change is about to take place, either as to the
Noble Lords now in office, or as to those who have not yet
accepted it. lam also desirous of seeing what may occur,
as the situations are not yet filled up. lam sure that my
sentiments agree with those of the nation at large when I
say that we await with the most earnest anxiety the con-
duct of his Majesty's Government. How can it be other-
wise ? when we see the manner in which the Opposition
benches are occupied. When I see the Noble Lords who
lately sat on the Opposition benches associated with those
who have remained in Office, I cannot but pro-
nounce the coalition most extraordinary.—(Cheers. )
There might have been a sacrifice of political opinions;
indeed, if not, we may reasonably conclude that there is
not, among the Members of his Majesty's Government,
that union which alone can entitle an Administration to
the confidence of the country.—(Cheers.)—But as I said
before, my Lords, understanding that the Government is
only provisional, I have resolved to wait for a few days.—
Thus much however, I will say, that a sacrifice of princi-
ple must have been made; that it has been made by those
Noble Lords, who for so long a time have been the stre-
nuous advocates of Whig principles. I will not
say but thlt there has been a sacrifice on one side or the
other ; Ido most conscientiously believeit.—(Loud cheers.)
Unless something satisfactory occurs within a short period,
I will certainly bring forward my motion.

The Marquis of BUTE, in presenting a petition against
any alteration in the Corn Laws, said that he differed from the
petitions as to the merits of the Bill now before the House,
and would therefore vote for the second reading. At thfa
same time he admitted that there might be some details as
to the mode of taking the averages, which might require
consideration.

Lord TEYNHAM presented a similar petition from
Northampton.

GAME LAWS.

On the !notion for taking the Report of the Game Laws'
Bill into further consideration,

The Earl of MALMESBURY begged to trouble their
Lordships with a few observations. His feelings with re-
spect to this Bill were very strong, which made him wish
to state his sentiments to their Lordships. He was aware
that a strong feeling prevailed against the present system,
on account of its being supposed that it promoted the in-
crease of crime. Admitting that there was an increase in
the number of crimes, he thought that increase arose from
other circumstances rather than the Game Laws. A Noble
Earl, a friend of his, not then in his place, took the same
view, and he should beg leave to elucidate it by some Re-
turns which had been laid on their Lordships' table. The
Returns laid before their Lordships related to crimes ge-
nerally, and in these Returns the accounts of some of the
convictions went back to 1810. The account, however,
of the number of convictions under the Game Laws only
went back to 1817. He could only compare the number
of convictions, therefore, under these laws since this year.
In 1817 the number of convictions under the Game Laws
was 127, and in 1826 the number of convictions was 128.
There was, therefore, ill these ten years only a difference
of one. He was aware that a number of convictions under
the Game Laws were summary; but he thought their
Lordships might deduce from the convictions at the Assizes,
the number of summary convictions ; and there was, there-
fore, no reason to believe that the latter had increased more
than the former. But if there was no increase of crimes
under the Game ',PM?, there was an increase of crimes
under other laws; and if other laws were the cause of an
increase of crime, these other laws must bear the blame for
the increase under them. As to horse stealing, for ex-
ample, it had increased very much. In that part of the
country where he lived, horse stealing had increased so
much that this species of property could hardly be secured.
In 1810, he found in the returns, that the number of
convictions for horse stealing was 58 ; while in 1826, the
number of convictions was 120. Thus, while the con-
victions under the Game Laws had increased by only one,
the convictions for horse stealing had more than doubled.
The crime of simple larceny approximated very much to
the crimes under the Game Laws ; and be would next
call their Lordships' attention to the convictions for larceny.
In 1810, the convictions for simple larceny were 2,269,
but in 1826, they were 8081 ; so that in this case
the increase had been quadrupled. He was justified, from
these documents, in supposing that there were some
other causes at work promoting the increase of crimes
than the Game Laws, and he saw one or two causes
which he would briefly mention to their Lordships.
A great part of the increase of crime was owing,
he thought, to the distressed state of our peasantry,
and the want of employment. In Wiltshire, the county-
with which he was connected, the individuals who had of
late been committed were of a different description from
those committed formerly. They were young, industri-
ous, healthy men, who were in distress and in want of em-
ployment,. They had been reduced to work on the roads
for half a crown a week ; and was it extraordinary, he
would ask, that men in that reduced state should have re-
course to unlawful measures to obtain the means of sub-
sistence ? He was borne out also by another return, which
he considered of importance, in thinking that the Game
Laws had not caused an increase of crime. He had ob-
tained a return from the County of Suffolk, in which game
was very extensively preserved, which would serve to illus-
trate his opinion. This return was from the Governor of
Bury gaol, and it contained an account of the number of
commitments to that gaol, from 1817 to 1826. He found
that the commitments in 1817 were 12, and in that year
the price of wheat was 945. per quarter ; the next year,
the number of commitments was IS, and the price of
wheat 83s. He would not cuter into the details of every
year, but there was a considerable increase in the number
of commitments as the price of wheat descended. Thus,
in 1822, the number of commitments had increased from
12 (in 1817) to 78 in and during the intervening period,
the price of wheat had been falling from 945. to 435.
per quarter. He did not mean to assert that the low
price of wheat caused the increase of crime, but there
was some analogy and some connection between them ;
sad there was something in this connection which led
him to believe that the low price led to want of em-
ployment, and both together led to the ine-e:ase of
crimes. Another circumstance which he thought had
led to the increase of crime, was the great increased
consumption of spirits in the country. During the last
three or four months there had been several atrocious
crimes committed, as their Lordships might have read in the
public papers, anti most of these crimes had been committed
under the influence of intoxication. But he did not rest
this part of his statement on these circumstances. There
was a public document which proved the increase of the
consumption of spirits. In 1824, the consumption of
British spirits, speaking in round numbers, was fifteen
millions of gallons; in 1826, the consumption of British
spirits was twenty millions of gallons. This was an in-
crease of one-fourth, which was, he thought, enormous....

PRICE 7D.

But this increased consumption was not confined to British
spirits. Great inducements had been held out to consume
rum, and great advantages had been conferred on the owners
of runt. What was the result ? Why the consumption
of rum had increased in the proportion of five to eight.--
This increased consumption of spirits was, he thought, one
cause for the increase of crime. But whether this was the
case or not, it was clear, he thought, from the returns he
had quoted, that the increase of crime was not occasioned
by the Game Laws. He would mention another circum-
stance, which was curious, as showing that theory and
practice did not always agree. There had been a great in-
crease in the number of juvenile offenders, when it was ex-
pected that the extensive education now adopted would im-
prove the rising generation. In fact, however, the rising
generation were more immoral and more vicious than pre-
Ceding generations. By Mr. Capper's Report, in 1824, it
appeared, that out of 4,000 prisoners, more than one-
third were under twenty years of age. There was, he be-
lieved, a great difficulty in ascertaining the causes of the in-
crease of crime, and the latter statement was to him a proo!
that these causes were not yet well ascertained. He ought,
perhaps, to have apologised to their Lordships for having
troubled them so long, and perhaps the view he took was
incorrect, but he thought it right to state it to their Lord-
ships. With respect to the Bill before their Lordships, he
must say he was at all times loth to make a total change
in any system, though he was quite willing to lessen
them. He thought he had good ground for opposing
this Bill. If these laws were, as they were denominated
in the Bill, oppressive and unjust, it was impossible.
he thought, that they should have been so long suffered
to exist. When he remembered the number of great
men, who had presided over the destinies of the
country, and who had resisted every kind of oppres-
sion, he could not believe that they would have allowed
single law, much more a whole system of laws which were
unjust and oppressive, to remain on the Statute Book.
To the law itself he bad a great many objections. It might
he desirable to legalise the sale of game, but when their

Lordships came to carry this design int.o execution, then
found it surrounded with difficulties. He considered tht
Bill likely to increase the preserves of game ; at present ii
was preserving game which made the Game Laws at all
product* of crime, and this Bill would increase this evil.
At present, no persons preserved game hut gentlemen of large
landed property : but if this Bill passed, tenants and yeo-
men would become preservers of game, and the evils would
be infinitely increased. The Noble Lord who introduced

the Bill, seemed to think only of large, well-defended estates,
but in many parts of the country- property was much sub-
divided and intermixed, and in such cases the present Bib
would add much to the difficulties and evils that existed
under the present laws. Gentlemen now went out shoot
ing, by sufferance, on the property of these small farmers.
and gave them a brace or two of partridges, and both par-
ties were satisfied. But if this Bill passed, the whole wouh,
be reduced to a question of pounds, shillings, and pence;
every man would be anxious to make what he could
game ; it was a new species of property created by this law.
and there would be no snore shooting on sufferance. Tin
Bill would be of no benefit to any body, except a class o
men who were very respectable in their way—lie mean:
country attornies. With respect to the inducements tla;
present system held out for gentlemen to reside on their
estates, he would confess that lie thought they ought
encouraged by such inducements to reside in the country.
He confessed that he was attached to old customs, an,'
might, perhaps, be called bigotted ; but he would mucl.
rather legislate strongly, and would not mind making ;
harsh law, if by it he could secure the residence of that
valuable class of persons, country gentlemen,on their property.
--(Hear. )—lt was, however, too much to condemn them t(
the solitude of the country, and deprive them of all plea-
sure in remaining there. The physical character of out
gentlemen was, he thought, concerned in this Bill. Tit(
officers for our army were obtained from this class ; an(:
he was sure that young men who went out shooting am,
hunting, who were exposed to all kinds of weather, an('
who rode every day twelve or fourteen hours, learning tt
appreciate a country as they rode over it, would mak;
better officers than those who spent their time lounging ii
die streets, or sauntering during the day from one club-
house to another, and passing their nights where the
ought not to be passed. Ile objected, therefore, to the
word " politic " introduced into the Bill, for he did no:
think the proposed alteration politic by any means. The
character of our country gentlemen was, he thought, o
great importance. Perhaps he ought to allude to tip
libels which had lately been directed against the countr,
gentlemen. For two years a system of libels had bees
directed against them, which might be traced from the
Daily Press to works which were the production of th;
greatest talents in the country. There was a regular sys
tern to run down Country Gentlemen, and it pervaded al
classes. You could not go into the City but you helm:
the Lord Mayor pronounce a condemnation of the Gam(
Laws ; while his Lordship committed the fisherman tt
gaol who employed nets of an improper siee, and destrove(
the white bait that was to feast his Lordship and his bre
thren in their solemn excursions down the river: It might
be expected that Gentlemen would, out of respect to them-
selves, and from looking into their own boson's, not allow
their prejudices to carry them so far. He objected also t(
the law as making the crime of trespass more difficult t;
be defined. The Bill spoke throughout of game, and al;
its clauses applied to game, which the Noble Lord hat
carefully defined ; but, he would ask, what was to be don;
when a man trespassed on the land of another, shooting
snipes and woodcocks ? He was not himself a sportsman
and therefore spoke disinterestedly, but he thought the Bit.
would put an end to tux-hunting.,-.---(Hear.)—Preferrim
the present system to that which was proposed, he thought
it better to move that the Report be taken into considera-
this day three months.

The Earl of ABINGDON addressed their Lordships at
considerable length, but was nearly inaudible below tht
bar. He began by making some allusion to the Admini-
stration, and said he was surprised to find, on his return to
town, some places filled by Noble Lords whom he 'level
saw in those places before, and some places occupied
very long faces, such as he had never seen before. As ti
the Bill, he thought the present system much preferable ti
it, and that the Noble Lord's Bill would increase the evils.
He should vote for throwing the Bill out of the House; or,
if required, out of the window. He was persuaded that,
instead of decreasing the amount of crime, it would be at-
tended with no other effect than that of extending the de-
moralization of the people.

The Earl of ELDON wished to say a few words upon
this subject, the snore especially as, in the days of hi,
youth, he had been probably as great a poacher as any other
person upon the lands of the Noble Lord who had just re-
sumed his seat, and to whom this was perhaps, the best mo-
ment to offer an apology—(Hear, and a laugh.)—Hi
thought he should hardly be performing his duty, if hi
permitted this Bill to pass through the House without in-
forming their Lordships of some objections he had to the
clauses of this Bill in a legal point of riew. Some o'
these clauses were so wcrded, that if they were not amended
he thought they would be productive of infinite mischief:
One of the clauses to which he objected was that which.
regarded the apprehension of poachers ; and when then
Lordships recollected hjw very little would reduce thi
crime of murder to that of manslaughter, he thought
they ought to pay some attention to this matter. L
seemed to him that as the Bill was now framed, it was
calculated rather to increase crime than to prevent it; while
the assembling of game in large quantities within small li-
mits, it did not pretend to touch.. He hoped long to
enjoy the old mode of sporting, but if their Lordships did
nothing to prevent the present pram. ice of battue shooting,
he should he disappointed in his hope, and they would do
nothing to diminish the amount of crime. The wording of
the clauses he objected to might be amended, but he cer-
tainly should oppose the Bill in any manner in which it
might be altered, unless it went to destroy that kind of
sporting to which he had alluded. His Lordship then
alluded to an opinion very prevalent in this country, that
those who started game on their own land might pursue it
upon the land of another, though they were not at liberty
to start it there. Of this opinion he had once experienced
an instance. He had gone- out shooting upon his poney,
and, when he had been out some time, he heard a shot
from behind a hedge, near which he had gory when in the
pursuit of his game. As the field from whence the shot
proceeded was in his manor or reputed manor (for it was
exceedingly difficult to distinguish them), he proceeded
thither, and found two gentlemen, each attended by a ser-
vant. He inquired of these gentlemen how it was they
came to trespass upon that manor, when they answered
that they were no trespassers, as they had started the gam,
on another manor, and pursued it there. Upon hearing
this, he turned lawyer—(a laugh)—and told them they
had no right to do so; but the only reply he received was a

desire that he would go to his master, Lord Eldon, and in..
quire about that matter, when he would find himself mis-
taken. He acquainted the gentlemen with the fact that he
was himself Lord Eldon, and that such was his opinion
upon the matter ; and he added, that, as he had given
them a little disagreeable law, he would then give them an
agreeable day's shooting, which he desired them to take at
their pleasure. Now he wished to know in what sort of
situation he should have been had he attempted to .do that
which this Bill empowered him to do, namely, to take
these men into custody? When men met men armed, as
they generally were when engaged in the pursuit of game,
it became an important matter clearly to settle in what
way the offending party should be dealt with, and by so
doing to avoid again hearing of such lamentable cases as
had occurred during the last Assizes ; and to prevent

men from being implicated in the guilt of murder, be-
fore they well knew what they were about. If the Haus,
should determine on passing the Bill, he had no objec-
tion to assist in amending it; but he could not vote for
it himself.

Lord DACRE should give his support to the Bill, which
he was convinced would go to diminish the amount of
crime. He admired the principle of this Bill, which, to
his mind, seemed founded in-perfect justice—he meant that
principle which gave to a man who caught game on his
land destroying his property the right to kill that game.
That principle admitted a right which he thought belonged
as strictly to the poorest cottager in the kingdom as to the
proudest Peer in that House.—(Hear, hear. )—Some Noble
Lords had spoken of the present laws as if they did not in-
crease the amount of time in the country, He was sorry
that he had not at that moment in his possession those
official returns which would disprove that supposition ;
hut he could assure the House that returns did exist which
proved beyond all question that they had increased the
amount of crime. In one year no less a number than 1300
persons passed through the prisons of this coUfitry for in..
fractions of the Game Laws, and among them were pro-
bably men who were thus introduced for the first tint t€
crime and profligacy. Tbey went in guilty of no other•
offence than that of poaching ; and they were turned out
of gaol accomplished, educated, and decided thieves. The'
problem of the unprecedented increase of crime was hai-dis.
to be accounted for in any other way than by supposing
that the most enterprising youth among the peasantry, in -
duced by the temptation of advantage, and not restrained
by the belief that they were violating the laws of property,
engaged in the practice of poaching, for which they were
thrown into viol, mixed with the worst of felons, and
when turned out, proved to have been seduced by their
profligate companions to devote their energies to the prat-.
flee of crime.—(Hear.)—Now he was convinced that if
this Bill was passed, that effect could not take place, for the
peasantry would respect that property in game which they
found vested equally in all the owners of the soil, as much
as they respected the property of farmers in the fowls of
their farm yards.—(Hear. )—The riches of this great town
would at all times command a supply of game ; and if the
means of affording that supply were not legalised by their
Lordships, they would only tend to perpetuate crime, or
rather not crime itself--for poaching was no moral offence
—but that which would lead to orime ; while, if they did
legalise those means, he thought they would diminish
crime by putting an end to the 'fruitful source from whence
it arose.

Lord AIALMESBURY explained.

The Earl of HARROWBY fully concurred with the
Noble Lord opposite (Lord Dacre), in the grounds on
which the present Bill was entitled to support. The Re-
turns to which that Noble Lord had alluded proved two
things, first, the comparative increase of crime within the
last three years, beyond what had been its amount in three
years selected from another period ; and secondly, that the
positive amount of crime was hardly to be accounted for on
any other principle than that of the existence of these laws.
The second fact was fully to be accounted for, on the ground
stated by the Noble Lord. With regard to the first, he
had carefully examined the Returns alluded to by the Noble
Lord, and he found that in the last three years there had
been imprisoned no less a number of their Lordships' fellow
subjects than 4,500, committed, too, solely for the offence;
against the Game Laws. Now upon looking back to three
other years selected from a different period,—for example,
the years 1810, 1811, and 1812—the number only amount-
ed to 400.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—The increase then:foie,
had been nearly ten-fold within the last fourteen or fifteen
years. Great as Noble Lords might think was the amount
of increase in the other branches of crime, he was certain
he might defy them to prove that it was as great as in this.
He would not stay now to go into the general merits of the
Bill ; but he thought it was impossible, after the proof thus
obtained, that Noble Lords should hesitate in performing
what he would call a moral duty, in doing all they possibly
could to put a stop to the continuance of those crimes which
he contended, were a consequence of the present system.
The crimes to which he alluded were only crimes by the
authority of law, and had been created for the indulgence
of a particular class of persons ; they were crimes, too, that
without moral turpitude condemned men to prison, their
families to wretchedness and poverty, and thus burdened
the parishes of the country with unnecessary and most griev-
ous expences.

The Earl of FALMOUTH thought it would be very
easy to amend the Bill, as to the description of the required
qualification, but that was not the only difficulty_ he felt
about the matter. He objected to the Bill itself; and with
respect to what had been said regarding the right of all
men to kill game found on their land, he thought it would
be most dangerous to acknowledge such a right, which
certainly was not required on the ground of compensation,
for nobody would deny that it was always afforded to the
pour occupier of land by the wealthy man, whose game had
injured the other's property. He thought the best mode
of preventing the evils now complained of would be, to give
to the present possessors of game the right of empowering
others to sell it.

The Earl of GROSVENOR was of opinion, that this
Bill should pass into a law, and that the country owed in-
finite obligations to the Noble Lord who had introduced it.
He would not say that if it was passed it would act,daliy
put an end to the evils of the present system, but he hk,
lieved it would, and he should therefore support it. A
Noble and Learned Lord had objected to the wording of
some of the clauses, but surely that was not a reason for
following the advice of the Noble Earl opposite, and throw-
ing the Bill itself out of the House, or out of the window.
It was impossible to draw such a Bill without falling into
some technical errors, and the wonder was that there were
so few in the present Bill. Ihere certainly were parts he
wished to see amended ; but those amendments could be
made when the Bill was re-committed. He approved of
the principle of the Bill, which he thought was calculated
at least to prevent that increase of crime which be believed
to be the result of the present system, and he should there-
fore give it his support.

oaEinaerdl.ELDON and Earl GROSVENOR mutually

Lord WHARNCLIFFE acknowledged that he was not
certain that this Bill, if passed into a law, would put an
end to poaching ; but lie believed it would have that effect,
and h
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of the Legislature to diminish both as much as possible ;
and this, he believed, might be effected with regard to
poaching, if the House would pus this Bill, which he
thought to be founded upon just and rational grounds ;
while lie did not hesitate to say that the existing laws upon
that subject were both oppressive and unjust. The tech-
nical objections to the Bill could be amended in the Com-
mittee, and it was strange, that, among all the objections
that had been brought forward, not one Noble Lord had
thought fit to declare it unnecessary, by defending the pre-
sent state of the law. They all seemed to admit that the pie-
sent laws were anomalous and absurd, and to that lie would
add that they were oppressive. He had brought in this
Bill to remedy those objections. He had gone to the pos-
session of land as the first standard of qualification. He
might be asked if every man who possessed a small quantity
of land should have liberty to shoot the game found
upon it, and his answer was in the affirmative. At least,
such would be justice; but the limit of the qualification in
the extent and value of the land that was to give that
liberty might be discussed in the Committee. His Lord-
ship remarked upon the absurdity of the present sys-
tem, with regard to convictions, and with respect to
the safety they afforded to one man, if he was
to inform against another. Such laws, he observed,'
were ridiculous in themselves, and were only calculated
to snake mankind unite in feeling with the poacher,
instead of being ranged against him. He wished to get
rid of such absurdities in legislation. He admitted that
some parts of the Bill might require re-consideration ;
but he had no doubt, with the assistance of the 'Noble
and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, and that of the
Lord Chief Justice of the Court of King's Bench, whom
he was glad to see amongst them, all the technical dif-
ficulties could he overcome, and the qualification could
be so described as to give the right of shooting game
to the person for whom he intended it-..the owner of
the soil. He would merely add, that those who were not
owners of land, and who wished to sell game, should take
out a certificate in the same manner as at present. He