The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF COMMOIVS, July 23.
(Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.)
SMALL DEBTS BILL.
On the rretion of Sir J. GRAHAM, the House went ieto
Committee on the Small Debts Bill (No. 3).
The differ nt clauses, with a few verbal amendments, r
agreed to, as were also the schedules, and the report w
ordered to be received to-morrow at twelve o'clock.
ESTATE BILLS.
Mr. GFEENE moved that all estate fills brought fie es
the Lords be allowed, during the present session, to be re:e: a
se :owl time on giving one clear day's notice after the rep t
from the Committee on petitions for private Bills shall h: -
reported either that the standing orders have been comph d
with, or that no standing orders apply to such Bills ; and tb A
the Committees on all such Bills be allowed to sit, on giro
one el, ar day's notice.—Ordered,
DUDDESTON AND NECHELLS IMPROVEMEN r
BILL.
Mr. SPOONER moved the third reading of this Bill.
Mr. MUNTZ said he had that morning received a requ A
from his constituents to tako a last division upon this ebnox:is
Bill. It would operate most unjustly upon his constituents, d
he therefore moved that the Bill be read a third time that el,
six months.
Mr. SPOONER said oily two alterations had been made • a
the Bill, but they were not of such a nature as to give ate
Hon. Friend a right to say that it had come from the C. le
mittee in a more defective s ate then ashen it was reterred te
Mr. BROTHER-lON said there were seven boards nits in
the borough of Birmingham, many of which were self-elee I,
often causing much useless expense to the inhabitants. '; .e
objections to the Fill were so various., that he could not cc•
r what hail induced the He-use to place it it: its present see e
Sir C. BURRELL mid that there bad been no good grow d
shown for reversing the decision of the Commit'ee. Ile se '-
ported the third reading of the Bill.
Mr. HUME said it was proposed to pass a Bill which wee I d
prevent union of action and economy of system in the toe. a
which it affected. The amount paid for the collection of re', s
would pay for all drainage. He knew nothing of Birmingle- tie
persor ally, but was well aware that the principle of the lad
would affect must injuriously the interests of that town.
Mr. NEWDEGATE supported the Bill.
The Hou-e then divided, when there appeared—
For the Bill
Against it 152
Majority
LONDON AND YORK RAILWAY BILL.
Mr. BECKETT DENISON sail the select Committee aO-
- to inquire into the merits of this Bill had this day co .
to a decision, after a protracted sitting extending over a pee i .4
of 73 days, and with the exception of two branches to Wah
field and Sheffield, the Committee had declared that the wb. to
Bill was proved. He had now to make an application to t a
House to divide the London and York Railway Bill into leo
or more Bills.
Mr. MILES seconded the motion.
Mr. WARD did not rise to make the slightest opposition •es
the decision of the Committee, but he merely willed to noes
a.statement on behalf of the proprietors of a competing line '3
one of the branches, who had been put to considerable expen e
during the 7 t days, in securing the attendance of witness
and counsel before the Committee. The promoters of t: e
Sheffield and Lincoln line, he believed, was a competing line ' o
one of the branches omitted by the Committee, and they co
sidered that it was extremely unfair that this motion should la
allowed to pass without a previous notice, and iu fait before t'
report of the Committe had been laid before the House.
Lord COURTENAY wished to state the grounds whieit
had induced the Committee to strike the two branches out ,1
the preamble of the Bill. The Committee had done so sinWey upon the ground that there were other lines before t' s
Committee which might be considered as competi-
lines with those branches to which the Honourable AlemL
had referred, and in justice to the promoters of those lines, tea
Committee did not think it right or fair that they should cons
to a conclusion upon those branches until these lines bad le.; g
under their consideration. With regard to the proposition
the Hon. Member, he could state that the Committee les t
no possible objection to it.
Mr. BROTHERTON suggested that the propostfion ha..l
better be postponed till to=morrow.
Mr. BECKETT DENISON said there was not ti.,
slightest wish on the part of the promoters of the London en•f.
York scheme to prevent the fullest possible discussic, t
taking place in Committee upon the two branches and the
lines mentioned by the Honourable Member for Sheffield. Ti
only object they had in view in making this proposal was t
enable the Committee to go on with parts of their Bill. tl
preamble of which they had that day proved, in order that .c
might not be kept back or thrown over to the next session.
After a few words front Mr. WA RD and Mr. ESCOTT, whi.
were quite indistinct,
Lord G. SOMERSET wished to know whether his Nob 9
Friend would state his opinion to the House, whether or n
this motion should be granted. If he thought that t
motion should be granted, he ( Lord G. Somerset) could, f
course, give his vote its favour of it.
Lord COURTENAY said he could not at present expre.
his opinion as to whether cr not the application should I.a
granted. An opportunity would be given for adjudicatiag or
portion of the scheme, cn which portion the Committee did
think themselves at liberty to adjudicate.
Sir JOHN LOWTHER hoped that the Hon. Mee, r
would postpone his motion to another period.
Mr. DARBY expressed an opinion that the motion ought n.t
to be postponed.
Mr. DENIi'ON then said be would withdraw his motion.
LONDON AND CROYDON RAILWAY.
The London and Croydon Railway Enlargement Bill vas
read a third time and passed.
MANCHESTER AND LEEDS RAILWAY, No. 2
The Manchester and Leeds Railway Bill was read a tie. d
time and passed.
WEST LONDON RAILWAY EXTENSION.
The Lords' amendments to this Bill were taken into •cen-
sideration and agreed to.
ACADEMICAL EDUCATION.
The O'CONOiI DON presented a petition in favour ef
general system of academical education for Ireland, from a
county in Ireland.
Mr. ESCOTT presented a petition from a private soldier,
named William Folic!, complaining that he had been illegei
dismissed the service, and praying for inquiry. The H. t.
Member gave notice that, to-morrow night, he should me se
that the petition be printed with the votes.
Mr. SCOTT presented several petitions from turne'lze
trusts in Scotland against the Bill for abolishing spirit been' es
to toll-bars in that country.
COUNTY RATES BILL.—PRIVILEGE.
Upon the motion that the Howe go into Committee on
Conny Races Bill,
Mr. F. FRENCH rose :Intl said, I tee, Sir, in the poric
papers a report that a breach of the • privileges of this
Howe has been committed, in reg rd to a speech bet g
published in the Times rewspaper of yesterday min l-
ing, which is attributed to me, and declared to be tee.
correctly attributed—in fact, that I never made IDOL a
speech. Now I dare say than there are many o-
nourable Members in the House at the aresent mcmeet
who can bear me cut in stating that every single w:
reported in that speech sees spoken by me in this [louse. I
sat by the Noble Lord the Member for the City of Lonece,
and on the Ministerial Benches sat the PrimeMinitter, the Right
lion. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Dope. t-
ment, and many other persons, end every one of them will voinh
that the report its the Timcs is literally and who ly
correct.—(Hear, hear.) I came into the House without coy
idea of speaking on the subject, but an opportunity appear ed
to me to offer itself, and I made some notes sal le
in the House. I happen to have those notes rill
in my possession, and I have compared t .n
with the rpecch, as reported, and they bear out literally the
accuracy of everything in the speech. Now a reply to it it
speech has come from another quarter—a very powerful quo r-
ter. It is perfectly true that from lhng practice the individcal
may wield his weapons with greater dexterity than I can, let
I have yet to learn that, when occasion may require it., I CP :1.
not strike as hard a blow as he can. I neither court nor far
him, but it is not my intention to carry on a war of abto 0,
which would neither accord with my own feelings, or be c. ti-
sistent with my position as a Member of this House. I thek
I may trespass on the House for a few minutes, while I mete
my position with respect to this matter. The House is aware
that for many years I have taken a good deal of interest in t:.e
subject of railways for Ireland. Some years ago, when apr
position was made for constructing railways in the south ,f
Ireland out of the public fund', I opposed it, believing
a line to the west would be wire conucive to the interests •.1
the United Kingdom, and tend more to develop the resourc: s
of Ireland. In the year IE4I, shortly after the Right Hon. Gi.n.
tleraan at the head et the Government came into power, I broup lit
the subject at considerable length under the notice of the Housse
The railway—the Irish Great Western—which gave rise to
the present question, was not got up by solicitors or engineer
as these things usually are—it was a Noble Friend of tni;.%
and myself who were the promoters of the line. We exit
rienced the greatest hostility as well from a rival company ..s •
from all the stock-jobbeis in the kingdom. Every possible ex-
pedient was resorted to, to throw obstacles in the way. N. os
withstanding all this, shares to the amount of from two to tine a
millions of money were applied for. I will now state shortly It a
circumstances connected with the allotment of these sitar. .
All applications were placed in a committee of directors. i t
had been stated, however, that considerable negligence Ii .1
been shown with regard to these applications. I can say, ho a..
ever, in reference to this point, that a respectable company in
Edinburgh, Messrs. Miller and Hope, stockbrokers, had t',a
selection of the applicants in that part of the country, and I ea
quite sure that they would allow no individuals on the subset
tion list unless such as were respectable. In London the It Ys
-
were deposited with Mr. Hazeltine, and several persons, includi .11
the solicitor for the Bill; and Mr. Harris another solicit,
went round and inquired into the respectabi r'lity of the parti
A provisional Committee was also appointed to inquire into liee
application, and to make the allotments. Shares to the amount
of two millions were thus allotted. Notice was subsequently
given, that unless the subscribers paid up the calls, the deposit
on the shares would be forfeited. In consequence of the de.iee
sion respecting the standing orders, the money was not to iire
had. General Caulfield and others then came forward :ad
said that they would pay up the money and take those stall Is.
It was a mis-statement, however, to say that the dii cle
tors had held any shares in the company for the p tae
pose of trading in them with a view to pr,
I never in my life held above forty shares in this or any of air
railway. I hold there at this moment. I have never pa• ted
with one of them ; and, under these circumstances, I thin it ass
very hard that it should be imputed tome that my exertions us
behalf of this line had been influenced by any pecuniary ese
sordid motive. I assure the House that to the extent of
forte shares I am interested, and no further, and my loss could
not, in any case, exceed 301. There are a number of of Milli
werful in
dithings connected with this matter, which I do not think it
necessary to introduce before the House.
I admit
they occur in the speech I made ; but I me
advert to one statement which
represents
vliintdl uei
da 1
see
canvassing for the support of a another place. T hat is perfectly true.---( Hem..)
that gentleman for ebout two minutes, and that was all ; and I
f shouldore awbaer
aware, that
his pmlaycepotowaernsswoefrretahseonalinleggawteiornes. so
asked him to withhold his opposition until my Noble Frend
glrewaats, not
the tinhe-
an interview of two minutes I could convince this gentleman, -
It has been asserted, also, that the statement I made v ith
respect to the agents were • untrue. The statement which I
did make before was, that there were interviews with the
agent, and that five letters were written—anti that, I repea-, is
true. So far, I was correct. It was said that the
agent was not permitted to open the snbj •ct.
As to brow beating the witnesses, I had not cone so. I rece: ved
the evidence from themselves; end with reference to Nlr.
Parkes, whose name was mentioned, he merely proved that in
forty railway sehemes the systeni was the very sense as in this tine.
There is another circumstance to which I wish particularly to
refer ; I allude to some words which I spoke under great ex-
citement. lam aexicius that that imputation should not re-
main, and I am prepared to state that the strong personal ex-
pressions which I made use of towards that individual was
under a mistaken feeling, as I have since found that he did not
make use cf the expressions which I did; but although he n ade
use of words to the same effect, I Lave no hesitation in as .th-
drawing all the personal expressions which I made use of to-
wards that individual : and further I will state, as every scan
should do, who has made a mistake as I did, my regret that I
used any expressions, offensive either to that individual or to
any other persor.
Mr. CLIVE said, as Chairman of the Commi 'tee
to which the House had referred the Bill, he night
be permitted to say a few words with respect to the