The Sun.
London, England, 1818-03-10 00:00:00

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• .'nob routed him, 'to teltom he wat makin an in-
fletuttettoryspeeche whieli he abused theg Prince
Regent. Au individual, tvith whom he (Mr.: L
- 'was aeepainted, had remonstrated with Oliver on
Tcomthet, hut he still cottlittued his speech.
.• 4he'tesidt was known to the Hoese. 'cite rrilic
,!grnt ploceeded tO Parliamentee-was insulted.by
the popelace, and the Habeas Curette Act was
suspended. Under all the circuit's! auces of the
,case, before a bill like the present should pass, he
bad a right to denoted that a lull investigation of
the conduel of Ministers should take ce. In The course be had taken on this occasionpla be had
too motive but a eish to do his duty to his coml.
.tq, that when the ptoper time arrived he might
'present himself with a coweienc:e clear aunt tinsel-
lied at its her.- He now moved as an amendment,
that the Bill should be read a first time on that
"day six mouths.
Sir M. w. RIDLEY, RS 110 *I-1911. Alember on
,the opposite side lied risen. to answer Hen.
:Geetletnan who had last spoken, rose to offer a
few words on the quiestion. From a review at
,the situation of the "country itt 1715, 1745, 1780,
and at other periods of het history, he cuntended
that no precedent could be sheers fur the present
1101, but that furnished by the Act of 1801,
which had it) fact been passed by the present GO-
'veismeet, who were in opinion too ready to
"eh at a precedeet which they had made for
tl'lllselees. The Act, it now s:0011, carried
~1.
Itelemnity. back so far as- January 12, 1817.
" .would have sheivn mo ue regard for;their
it character had they mede it co-extensive
t,:ith the I3iil for the Sespeneitie of _the Habeas
, Act. Out 01 theof persons taken up
("der tl, Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act,
it appear„d thet..fitty-ene had been aires,ed by
streets train the Se.•retary,of State, and tour by
aFraets- trout,the Privy Council 'The remain-
c'er, or unrest of them, bed been 'taken ep on war-
\it"' isseed by the Ain.istt of DerhYshire,
'uttieghartishire, and other places. Of the fifty-
persons taken up limier the warrants issued
by the Secretary of State, not one haul. been
I,l"ifeht to trial ; four arrested on those of
.`l° PI ivy Council had been brought to trial and
-etleitted. Perhaps he miglie be told that this
the ass with which Govertintent haul
bet he Was. reciter inclined to think it
,We.i On what triveloes grotinds the Habeas
Act Had been sus)ended.- He then re-
ihaiked on- the !nimble situation of thoe fruit!,
Nvie-en So touch dancer had been apprehended,
t'hi filially hoped the Bill -.would not pas, wbbent
",tte timber inquiry being first instiruttede-as if it
'dirt
11 lit!, the House would go a step further than it
a'L. ever done before, in opposition to the free
of the Constitution.
IN-11.• PetereettOE was of opinion, that if no
Pete!' were brought forward of Ministers- having
lised the powers which had teen confided to them
utunseieutioesly and uprightly, a Bill of Indemnity
C"Pr existiou ciretenstauceswas necessary and.'
rriper. They' ought to be- protected, .and he oeld trot bet think that it would he wrong to I
make titi.un give up the soueceS from whieb they
d derieed the information On which they had
should reserve hintselt, on the details
of t
`lr
he' till it got into a Committee.
y ST HopE considered that the Ministers
..10b"1 firmly but mildly exercised the powers
„
crop to them' by Parliament ought to be pro-
tected by a hill of Indemnity. The suspeosion of
the Habeas Cerpus Act was necessary at the time
it t""k l'he• it was made an argioneut agaiust
It that disterbeuees had afterwards broken out, as
lit. was now that trantieilloy had been restored
e belieVed that it had repressed but not excited
Itisterbances, and when the present situation of
t.he country was considered, it' ought not to be
tuought that because we were now well, we had
Havel' been sick ;, nor was it tight, when the dis-
ease had diealqieared, to complain of the ittefficecy
tlf, tile. remedy lie strongly insisted, that after
',,"taining 441:nation of importance to the State,
'"(!frt those who were capable of affording it, they
• Inuit' ill perform their dirty, if they were now
.tvatlelY to give them to the vengeance of those
tie practices they had discovered. It some of
rYe. agents of- Government had -overs'epped the
11)e which they ought to have observed, it did
1,7.'t know that Ministers were to he blamed.—
"Id it be right to try a General for every enor-
4`Y that might be committed by every stabaltern.
1- his army ? But those who haul .furnished infor-
R,!"`ull to Ministers ought not to be treated with
at severity. If such a eourse-were taken, the
I':et-3, would be most injurious. Supposing an
ediritest man, introduced to the society of conspi-
e c)ra against the Government, in an unguarded
ir)c ant 0
; when a returning sense of duty should
te '
t,l him to repent, and make Co- his country
"4
ly atonement in his power, by discovering
IA Nets which he knew to be in progress, what
4,1 d be so likely not only to prevent, him trout
tie"g this, but to urge him to persevere in fur-
feering the vicious designs of those wit-h wham he
40'
!NI himself associated, than the conviction that
so.he should be accuied of treachery, and
eff„" up to the resentment of those who might he
te;teted by the disclosures he might make ? It was
At air. Oliver that haul excited that spirit of dis-
teteelion which had pervaded the country, hot re-
lebt‘ Mr. Cobhett, and those who, like him, had
etil°"red by their writings to inflame the passions
itenlislead the understandings of the people.
litliSMeTte (of 'Cambridge) considered that ill
colar cases a Bill of Indemnity might be pro-
ttor'Y. called tor, but in the present instance be did
tee
t' from any thing that was known to have
," place, bold it to be at all necessary. He
ef:"ed to look at the amount of the jueonee.
which would arise if that evidence were
'te closed which Ministers were so anxious to coe-
e el. Our of the list of persons that had•been
leetl Up, 49 was the utmost number that could
%.-actions against the Secretary of State. Of
eqeBe 49 many had left the eountry, aunt, many
te"ers(who he admitted were infamous charae-
- e„rs), would not risk the exposure of their elta-1
Ceters in a Court of Justice. There might
ire two or three who would bring actions, and
h.this were done, where would be the mighty 14rne of disclosing the evidence received against
Cose few individuals. If the informer should
oved to haVe spoken, truth be
',Ave little to dreadwould
, and if h
11,61 ten truth he oug e had not
ht to be exposed and-11u-

nishetl irrsteati of being pent tied by this Bill
inconvenience to ivhich these persons would he
exposed, was no greater than that to which num-
hers were exposed at the .-close of every ASS'Ze
In Yorkshire, in the year 1813, seventeen persons
were convicted of being concerned in the disturb-
ances which had taken place in that neighbour
bond. 'The Ivitues,es were however returned im•
mediately on the bosom of that society, where
they had lived ever after- unmolested by their
neighbours. At least nothing to. the contrary was
known. He objected to the preamble of the
Bill, from the countenance it seemed to give to
the Spy system, which, however, he thought had
been, in some instances, condemned with an ho-
ttest but too severe indignation on that sale
of the House, while it was treated with too much
tenderness by the other. in this respect he coul4
wish a middle course to he kept. Though in or-
dinary times the use of Spies could not be too se-
verely reprobated, there were exigencies when
almost any man would av iii himself of their as-
sistance if he were in the situa ioo of a Secretary,
of State. After all that had he advanced on this
subject, that might he -alit of spies• t% Lich Dr
'Johnson had said of ghosts---" All reasoning is
against them, hut all experience for them."—
Where men so far overstepped the lioe marked I
for their observance, as to labour to produce the

[ treason they were intended to prevent:, tt:ey ought
to be 'nought to puni3lonent. No foimer Bill of
llndemnity bad been granted under circum-
stances similar to those with- which this
Bill was connected. That of 1.801, which was
brought forward at a time when the principles. or
the French Revolution hail triumphed for eight
years on the Continent, was passe' under very
(Wei ent circumstances. When he compared the
year 1801 with the last year, the only test-m, il•a_nee
he could discover was this—=that the Habeas,,Cor-
pus Act had been suspended in‘ both. It .vat a
melancholy reflection that the victory of NVater-
! 100, tile triumphs of our Allies, and rig? recur-
rence to legitrtiih'e Governments on the Contiueg,
• sh.inid have led to the same measure which Mr.
I'itt had been forced to ti ive recourse to, atter
t wo'vears of unsuccessful war, when the French
revolutionary principles were at the acute of their
power. He took a view of the insurrection in
Derbyshire, and trom the insignificant .111VAIIS o 4
the conspirators, contended the danger of
the country na(l not been so great as was
soptiosed Iu Yorkshire he• was jute not a
Sin tlt Magistrate could be tonod who had
acical in 1512 and in 1817, who would not declare
the disturbances in the former ye g to have been
more formidable (though the t.ii.Speusiou of the
Ilabeas Corpus Act wits not thought of t- en.) than
were those which oeoinred last year. Those who

I had suffet-ed front being confioed under the Ha-
i hefts Corpus Suspension Act, ought be allo‘sed to
.bring their actions, and he thought it would be
better that any damages they u.igir recover should
he paid oat of the Secret S,rs ice Money, than that
I such a precedent should be formed as twouldbe
I established if this Bill were passed.
Mr. Bakst) said, the manner-in which the At-
; torneF-Ge,:e;-al this night argued, from 411..
cient precedents, would of itself be sufficient to Makt
him pause before he vote,i for it. They were now
called upon to wak, a precedent, by passing a Bill
•of Indemnity in a tiin of profound peace, and lie
thought tinder circumstances the most inadmissi-
ble. The csiurse which had been pursued had vit.
1(144 converted our free Constitivirro -lot() all qr.
bitrary Goveinment. [-le was not satisfied with
• the measure that had been adopted, nor with the
means by which it had been hrought forward,'
•
namely, the Reports of Committee's appOinted by
Ministers themselves to decide on the merits of
their own conduct. He did not "know that it
would be„well to pay any damages +hat might he
recovered out of the Secret service Money, as one
Hon Member visited should be done : bat of this
he Was sure, that those who had suffered ottjustly
ought not to be precluded' trom seeking tedress by
legal means. To permit this would he to act in
coutradiction to the Coustitution—would be to
make a wrong for which there would be no re-
medy. He hoped in some way Ministers would
enable those who might have suffered unjustly .o
recover damages for losses really sustained. He
did- fiat mean to say that Ministers had used the
power confided to them oppressively. He be-
Ifeved they had not done so ; but he had no Par-
liamentary ground for being satisfied of this—no
Parliamentarygroutid t +r passing the present Bill.
The Parliament of Hoglaiol was bound to reject,
in 'mine, a Bill, the professed object. of which
was to exclude a portion of the people from the
exercise of those rights to which they had an he-
reditary claim, for the benefit aacl security of Mi-
nisters.

Mr. MARRYATT was one of those who last year
opposed the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus
Act, and he now looked back upon his vote with
great satisfaction, as it had fumed out that none
of those taken up under it tild been proved guilty.
Those only had been convicted of trettion who

I;v1 'wen taken up by the Mgistrates in the re.,

gidar way. This, however, would not influence
his vote on the present occasion. Frc►tn the mo-
ment the Bill had passed into a law, it became

the duty of Alinistets io endeavour to give it
-effect, 41 the best wanner they were able. 'fhe
question now before. the house was, whether or
not the Government had abused the powers con-
fided to them, or whether they had acted on them
with fair discretion and moderation. Ile saw no

ground for charging Ministers with an abuse of
Ike power with► which they had been entrusted.
He therefore thought, not to give them a Bill of
Indemnity would he just as arbitrary and opines-
sive as the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act
had been last year. 'l'hoi►gh lie had been opposed
to that measure, he should vote in favour of the
Biil now before the House.
Lord ALTHoRVE- maintained that none of the
precedents .which ha►d been referred to were at