The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-17 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TtJESDA I EVENING, JUN'E 17, -1845

their flocks, or be partially dependent upon . the State,.
And why should not the Roman Catholics and Prot,7oania of
Ireland associate together harmoniously in the same way that
they did in Scotland, Russia, or France ? Ile certainly would
not support the Bill, as being the first step to the endowment
of the Roman Catholic Church out of the public funds, because
he thought a portion of the revenues of the Established Church
ougbt to he appropriated to that purpose. A good deal had
been said about the murder and persecution committed by the
Roman Catholics of Ireland, but, on the other hand, had not
the Protestant Church, at some periods of its history, been
equally as persecuting and just as tyrannical ?—( Hear,
hear.) Did their Lordships forget the cruel murder of
Archbishop Sharp in Scotland, whose murderers were aft erwards
rewarded by the Church and the State for their cruelty? Let
them hear, then, no more about the domineering and perse•
outing spirit of the Roman Catholics of Ireland. But he was
inclined to think it was the wish and the intention of her Ma-
jesty's Government to deal with Ireland in a more liberal
spirit, and passing from the religious to the political question
of justice to Ireland, he trusted, ere long, they would see an
extended system of registration introduced into Ireland, which
should place ite constituencies on the same footing as those of
England. It had been said, however, that there was no use
in making concessions to Ireland, because, the more they con-
ceded, the more the people demanded, and even when they
got what they asked for, they were not contented. They had
heard a vast deal, too, of the ingratitude of the Irish people ;
but let him tell the House, that if they conceded to
Ireland all that she was entitled to demand, and her people
were still dissatisfied, then would be the time for them to com-
plain. When the Irish people had been treated on an equality
with the English—could any Noble Lord point out to him a
period in the history of the two countries, anything which
could at all show that Ireland had been treated as fairly and
as liberally as England ? No ' • it was quite out of the power
of Noble Lords to do any such thing, and until her Majesty's
Roman Catholic subjects were placed on an equality with Pro-
testants, Ireland would still have a right to demand further
concessions. Lord Grey's administration went out of

office without the opportunity of completing their intentions.
Sir R. Peel's Government was formed at the end of 1834, and
was so speedily dissolved, that there was no time for him or his
Lord-Lieutenant to carry out their kindly-disposed measures for
the benefit of the people. Then came the Government of
Lord Melbourne, under which those measures of conciliation
were taken which made Mr. Shed a Privy Councillor, and gave
Mr. Moore O'Ferrall a place at the Admiralty. During the
whole of the five years which followed, the cry of repeal died
away. In 1841 a contested election took place for the city of
Dublin. There were two candidates on what was called the
liberal side, and two on the other. On the one side there was
Mr. O'Connell, and on the other Mr. Hutton, the declared
enemy of repeal ; and yet at the close of the poll Mr. Hutton
was within ten votes of Mr. O'Connell, who was the very head
of the repeal movement. What would be the case now if a
candidate were to start for that city ? Would it be believed
. .

that he would gain twenty votes. If the Government had
adopted five years ago the same conciliatory tone which they
had afterwards taken up, they would have had an easy task;
but it was declared that concession had reached its utmost
limit, and what the result had been their Lordships had seen.
These men had been placed in office. They were men of
unblemished character, men of the highest honour, hut they
had been disregarded. But he would only say that it was to
him no wonder that the cry of repeal had been raised.
The Irish people had learned that they were to get nothing by
voluntary concession, and they thought that their only appeal
was to force. He did not wish to touch on any irritating topic
—(" Hear, hear." from the Ministerial benches)—he might
say something of the monster meetings, he might say some-
thing of the Irish prosecutions, and of the way in which they
were conducted. He might say something also of the way in
which they were concluded.—( Hear, hear.) But he was glad
to see that for the future the Irish people were not to be
treated as aliens in politics and religion. He was glad to see
that the Noble Lord opposite was likely to have a long tenure
of office.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh. ) The Government last
year had carried the Dissenters Chapel Bill. They had this
year carried the Maynooth Bill by large majorities, and they
had it now in their power,with the support of his own side of the
House, to carry other measures equally useful, and he trusted
that that would ultimately be effected for which he had always
contended—the endowment of the Roman Catholic priest-
hood. Yet though it might induce a large exclusion from
office of himself and his friends, he should still rejoice at the
advancement of a generous and friendly policy towards
Ireland.
' The Bishop of LLANDAFF said that the old principles of
supporting the royal family on the throne had been so brought
in question, that the term of concession had reached its limits
was a correct phrase. There were one or two points which
had been very erroneously stated, but so long as the principle
was upheld the connexion of the monarchy with the Protestant
religion must be maintained. These two points had been his-
torically misstated. There was but one church, one faith,
one creed in the world; and though they might differ as to
which was the purest church, yet there was no question as to
the existence of the church. When, by what he must take the
liberty of calling—and what was in reality a dispensation of Provi-
dence—this country was freed from the tyranny of a man who
saw himself thwarted in some of his favourite views, the Church
reformed itself, and was not affected by any outward power. In
the early part of the time of Elizabeth the Church had been
established in all its purity, and every membnr of the faith
communicated with it. The church of Rome had thrown the
Church of England off. She had repudiated and excommuni-
cated all who partook of her rites. But the Church still went
on, and was not disturbed in any of her positions, so that it
was only simple error to say that the revenues of the Church
had been transferred to the other. When he called the Esta-

blished Church of this country a continuation of the ancient
church, he thought their earliest recollections would come in
to aid the position which he had put before them. This was done,
not by direct effect of authority, but by the vitality always ex-
i,ting in a Christian community they had continued the usages
of the Church after its polity was changed. It was an error then
to say that the revenues had been taken from one church and
transferred to the other, for it was all the same Church only
altered in features. There was one argument brought forward
in favour of the Bill which he could not give his sanction to,
namely that it was not the doctrines on which the grant was
conferred but the number of people who professed those doc-
trines. He thought that such an argument was one of the
most pernicious tendency. He would not however detain
their Lordships any longer, hot believing as he did that the
grant was inconsistent with the principles of the reformation,
inconsistent with the civil and religious l►berties of this country,
and subersive of those noble institutions which were established
previous to the accession of the illustrious family who at pre-
sent occupied the throne, he could not give his sanction to it,
and would therefore move that the Bill be read a third time

that day six months.
Lord CA NIPBELL said that he was far from being an
enemy to the Protestant Church, and he did not consider that
any appropriation of its funds, such as he had suggested, would
in the least degree impair its usefulness.
The Earl of EL LENBOROUGH did not concur with the Noble
and Learned Lord. He thought that the Church of England
and Ireland was one Church, and it would be as unju•t that
the superfluities of York should go to supply the wants of
Cornwall or Kent, as that the funds of the Established Church

in Ireland should be taken to supply the Catholic religion
there. He thought that such a proposition was unjust; and he
intreated the Noble Lord, and all who concurred with him, to
pause before they entertained such a suggestion. If once they
countenanced so monstrous a proceeding it was impossible to
say what would be the end of such an unprecedented interfe-
rence with the just rights of the Established Church in Ire•
land. —( Hear, hear. )
The Earl of SHREWSBURY said that religious controversy
ought to be eschewed in that House; but he could not, as a
Catholic, allow the denunciations which had been frequently
poured out in the course of the present debate against the
Catholic religion, to pass without recording his decided protest
against them. This religion, he it remembered, numbered
among its followers, both in times past and at present, the
most illustrious men the world ever saw, and he would ven-
ture to say that it would continue to do so for all time to
come. If Noble Lords who had alluded, with so much
eloquent vituperation, to the doctrines taught at Maynooth,
had moved that a copy of the " Catechism of the Council
of Trent, which had been published in 1829, by a professor
of that College, should be placed on the table, or in the hands
of every Member of their Lordships' House, an opportunity
would be given to sift those charges which had been
made. It was really monstrous, however, to state, as
many of their Lordships had done, without the
least proof of such an assertion, that all who were
professors of that religion were sunk in superstition and idol-
atry. He was a Catholic not only in obedience to the church
who inculcated that faith, but from a serious investigation,
and a strong conviction of the truth of the Catholic religion ;
and he defied those Lords who had indulged in these calum-
nious misrepresentations, to substantiate a single one of them.
He could not help also contrasting the conduct of the Catholic
Members of that House, when speaking of the Protestant re-
ligion, who, although twelve in number, never, as far as he
knew, allowed a single word to escape them disparaging the
doctrines of that religion. He should not have dwelt upon
this part of the subject at all, but from the pertinacity with
which those charges had been reiterated, and which, though
refuted a thousand times over and over again, were still
brought forward with all the freshness of novelty. He would
just briefly allude to one or two'of the mis-statements which
had been made in reference to the doctrines taught at May-
nooth.—The Noble Lord then read a document purporting
to come from a body calling themselves the Censors of the
Anti-Maynooth Committee, which states, that there are eleven
works containing doctrines of a persecuting tendency read as
class-books in Maynooth, and it turned out that only three of
the books which they enumerated were read there, and only as
books of reference, and the doctrines which were contained in
them were precisely opposite to those which were taught in the
regular class-books of Maynooth. The Noble Lord then re-
ferred to a passage in " Menochius," one of those books of re-
ference, where an inference is drawn that Christ sanctioned the
doctrine of putting heretics to death. So far (continued the
Noble Lord) from concurring in such an opinion, or in any
passages of a similar tendency, they were not only objected to,
but strongly deprecated by the authorities and professors of the
College, and are never referred to unless for the purpose of
refutation. He might as well say, that because Cranmer
burnt the Socinians, the present humane and virtuous Primate
was anxious to try his hand upon the same ex-
periment. And he might go on suggesting cases of
this nature; but he would only content himself by
remarking that there would be always these notions in dispute
between the two Churches. All he asked the House, there-
fore, was to give the same right of thinking and exercising
their opinions upon these matters to the Roman Catholics, as
they gave to the Protestants. The Catholic clergy were un-
exampled in the discharge of their religious duties, and un-
surpassed, if not unequalled, in their loyalty, but still, Noble Lords
had been unmeasured in their abuse of them and the Jesuits
of France. If the people of Ireland wanted any strong ground
for repeal, it was to be found in the language which had been
indulged in by some Noble Lords on this question. But he
wished to depart from these attacks to say a few words
on the principle of this measure.—( Hear, hear.) It
would lie remembered that the tenets which were so
obnoxious to some Noble Lords, were some time ago proscribed
by the laws of this country, and what was it that had placed
them in their present position ? It was not any alteration in
their Lordships' opinion that had produced the change, but it
was because in Ireland the influence of the Catholic commu-
nity had gradually increased, until the Government of the
country were unable to refuse them their rights. Their first
grant to Maynooth was based upon that principle, and the prin.
ciple had ever since been gradually advancing. The question
before them was not one of polemics. It was a question of
popular rights. Were it a question of polemics, he would
have precisely the same right as the Noble Lord, who moved
an amendment on a former occasion, every time an Eccle-
siastical Bill came before them, to demand that the
doctrines of the Establishment be inquired into and explained.
But it was not a question of polemics, but one of right and
justice; and if their Lordships refused even to sanction the
measure, it would be tantamount to returning to their illiberal
and unwise system of dealing with Roman Catholics. It
therefore only remained for him to thank the Government for
having brought the measure forward, and to urgently entreat
them now in its last stage Rot to relax in their efforts to carry
it out.
The Duke of MANCHESTER spoke i few words in ex-
planation.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE wished to know whether the
Government had authorized . the Governor of Malta to con-
sent to the establishment of a Jesuit college there ?
Lord STANLEY replied that a representation had been
made to Government from Malta, of the great defi-
ciency of establishment, for education in that island, which had
rendered it necessary for the inhabitants to send their children
to be educated in Italy and Sicily. Under these circumstances

a question had been raised whether the brother of an Han.
Member of the other House should be allowed to establish at
his own expense a school in Malta for the education of Roman
Catholic children. That question was still under the consi-
deration of Government. No school could be established in
Malta without the licence of the Governor, and that licence
had hitherto never been refused.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE asked whether the gentleman
alluded to was a member of the Jesuit Society.
Lord STANLEY was understood to say, he believed the
gentleman belonged to a Jesuit college.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE asked whether any communi-
cation had been held on the subject of this Bill with the Pope
of Rome.

Lord STANLEY replied that no direct communication ever
took place between this country and the Pope of Rome ; but
on the present occasion, as on others of a similar nature, the
agent of the British embassy at Florence had certainly carried
en an indirect communicatien with the Papal Court.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE considered that it was cri-
minal in the State to encourage the Roman Catholic religion,
which was both superstitious and idolatrous, if those who pro-
fessed it set up images which they worshipped. That doctrine
was founded in error, and was contrary to all religion. He ob-
jected to the grant being paid out of the funds of this country,
and understood that when the College of Maynooth was esta-
blished, that it was projected as an experiment, and not as an
institution to be permanently supported and endowed by the
State. The people would not be satisfied with the measure,

. .
for they had evinced the greatest dissatisfaction since Catholic
Emancipation was granted to them ; so that it was absurd to
suppo,e that this measure would conciliate them, and render
them quiescent. The Noble Duke (the Duke of Wellington)
said, in introducing the 13111, " that no one in his senses"—
The Duke of WELLINGTON—No, no.
The Duke of NEWCASTLE-_I say, yes. lam not to be
put down by " No." The Noble Duke said " that no man in
his senses would now think, the Government and the Parlia-
ment being against them, that they could ever have a chance
of carrying their point (repeal), as they were so beaten down,
so thoroughly unable to raise the standard of rebellion again,
that it was desirable to he exceedingly liberal and to conciliate
as much as possible." He (the Duke of Newcastle) held that
the peace and prosperity of this country would be greatly in-
jured if they passed the measure. The situation in which the
Queen was placed, with respect to this measure, by her Go-
vernment, whose conduct he deprecated, was most painful, for
they were requiring her to do that which was contrary to the
oath which she swore at her coronation—that she would hold
the Established Church inviolate. He conceived, also, that
the sentiments of this country were against the measure.
He thought that there ought to be no barracks without a chapel
of the Church of England attached to them. All this was un-
lawful, especially by the Emancipation Act. There was another
Act which made it unlawful to establish a Jesuit's College any-
where, and he believed that those who were engaged in the es-
tablishment of these colleges subjected themselves to a prenau-
n ire. He did think that any attempt to establish a college at
all was contrary to the Constitution, and though he felt bound
to apologize for the very imperfect manner in which he had
stated his views, he yet felt bound to state them, and he should
vote for the motion of the most Rev. Prelate.
The Duke of WELLINGTON felt bound to explain what
he had said in a former debate, and it was this, that he
felt assured that it was utterly out of the power of
any man, by tumult, intimidation, or violence, to force the
question of repeal. He had not said a word about agitation.
He had not said a word about tumult. And he never thought
that any Act could be forced throough the House by tumult or
v:olence ; and if the Noble Duke was of opinion that it could be,
he was the only man of sense that was of that opinion. He
would beg to remind their Lordships that this was a Bill to
amend an Act of Parliament, and he had never heard that it
was unlawful to amend an Act of Parliament. The Noble
Duke had stated a variety of circumstances to show that it was
unlawful, but he must say that was not the opinion of other
Noble Lords. They must either repeal the Act altogether,
which he did not think was at all likely, or they must pass
it as they had done heretofore by large majorities. If this
were necessary when the population was only 3,000,000, it was
still more so when the population had increased 250,000.
When he had spoken in a former debate of making provision
for the decencies of life in a college in which there were 500
students, he meant that they should not be two and three in a
bed—( A laugh, and cheers)—or that there should be four in a
room. If they meant to give education to the members of the
college, it should be such an education as would render them
equal to their several duties. They had not only to obtain an
influential power with their flocks, but also a social influence
in the community, and it should be recollected that this could
not be obtained without an education which should in some
way place them on an equality with the parties with whom
they had to associate. Their business was to associate with the
higher classes, and it was the object of this Bill to place them
in such a position as to render them fit to he the associates of
gentlemen of property and position. This he presumed was
what the Noble Lord behind him meant by making them gen-
tlemen, and what he meant by giving them the decencies of life.
This was the opinion entertained in that part of the
country, and it was vain he thought to go back. They could not
go back to such a state of things as existed fifty years since.
All he asked of them was that they should carry out this mea-
sure in a way worthy of this great country, and that they
should establish this institution according to the spirit in which
it had first been founded. They certainly could not accom-
plish this on cheaper terms than those which had been pro-
posed. There was another part of the question which related
to the endowment. What was the question with regard to
endowment? Was this the first Act by which that endowment
was effected ? He would contend that it was not, for the en-
dowment was in fact effected by the very first Act of Parlia-
ment which had conferred the 8,000/., and that question was
therefore set at rest. It mattered little whether it was a small
sum or a large sum, for between them in the way of prin-
ciple there was •no difference whatever. But then, as
his Noble Friend had stated, there was an argument in the
fact that this vote had been an annual one, but he would
contend that the very first year, when in 1795 the grant had
been made, the endowment was effected, and it mattered little
whether the grant was for 9,000/. or 15,000/. the legality of
the grant was the same. In the one case in which any alte-
ration had been adopted it had been made by a Minister for
whom he entertained the highest respect. He was a good
Minister, a highly respectable Minister, and one whose memory
ought to be held in great veneration. He meant Mr. Per-
cival. That Minister had made an increase to 9,0001. a-year in
consquence of the increase of the number of stu-
dents. That was the rule of equity, and it mat-
tered not whether the rule were considered in
the House or not, but it was most desirable that
these discussions should be avoided, and that the grant
should be a permanent one, but also on other grounds. It
should be recollected that the education of these persons occu-
pied a period of years, and it was necessary that those whose
duty it was to instruct these students should have some assur-
ance that their salaries should not be stopped. Their labours
were of the highest importance. They were men of learning
and position, and it was not reasonable that men of this cha-
racter should be turned adrift at a moment's notice ; and the
mere difference therefore between the grant being ar.nual and
its being permanent did not in any way affect the Bill.—
( Hear, hear.) Another point arose out of the impression that
the institution of Maynooth was a corporation. But that was
a mistake. It was not a corporation. It possessed
none of the powers of a corporation. The Act
of Parliament by which it was founded expressly
defined the powers by which this institution was founded,
and the Act of 43 Geo. 111., by which the previous Act was
renewed and confirmed, expressly stated that the persons in-
vested with authority and power as the rulers of the uni-
versity, had none of the powers of a corporation. The pream-
ble stated that this Act was passed in order to perform the
duties of their calling and position. The institution was not
an ecclesiastical corporation, but it was an eleemosynary col-
lege. The ordinary here had no power of visitation which
was to be made by the officers of the Crown. This visitation
was to be made by an officer of the Government, under the
authority of an Act of Parliament. Bat he could not assent
to the proposition of the Noble and Learned Lord, who had
risen in the early part of the debate (Lord Campbell), who
had given his reasons for voting for the third reading of the
Bill. He (the Duke of Wellington) should disclaim all the
reasons which that Noble and Learned Lord had given for his
support to the Bill. This measure was not intended to be the
forerunner of any other measure. It was to stand by itself.
He felt that the Church of England as established in Ireland
was founded according to the principles of the Constitution.
He had taken the Oath of Supremacy, and he must say that he
was bound to support that church. They were bound to sup-
port the supremacy of the Protestant Church, and he would
assure the Most Rev. Prelate that the same principle had been
preserved in this Bill which had been observed from the com-
mencement of the reign of Geo. 111. to the Act of 1829. He felt,
therefore, that it was absolutely incumbent upon her to uphold the
maintenance of the Protestant Church in Ireland. The question
sad always been surrounded by difficulties, and he did not see
any solution to those difficulties in any of the prepositions
which had ever been made to Parliament. The principle
which they were now applying had been used ever since the
establishment of the reformed religion in this country. It was
upon this that the universities, colleges, and schools of the
country had been founded, and if it were changed they would
have to alter the whole system of ecclesiastical polity in the
country, and interfere with every sect of religious opinion in the
community. According to the opinion of his Noble Friend
behind him the course was perfectly clear, but he thought that
the objects which his Noble Friend wished to serve would not
be made out. They might go ten years back, or a hundred
years, and he feared that his Friend's position would not be
improved.
The Earl of WICKLOW had thrown all that overboard.

The Duke of WELLINGTON was glad to hear that he
had thrown all that overboard, for he faared that if he went
back 100 or 200 years, or as far as 300 years, or as far as he
would, the position would be the worse the further he went
back. It was rather a curious assertion that the establish-
ment of this institution was inconsistent with tne Oath of
Supremacy. Now he himself had taken the Oath of Supre-
macy. The State had imposed that test, and he asked
the Noble Lord to consult the Acts of Parliament, and
he would find many which, while they stated that the
Pope had not, and ought not to have any power or jurisdic-
tion► in this realm, never stated anything which made it incon-
sistent in them to give a grant for the purposes of the Catholic
religion. How, he would ask, could it be a breach of oath,
when the Legislature themselves knew, that there were many
who took the oath of allegiance, who never took the oath of
supremacy at all ? He thought, if the Noble Lord had
looked info the original statutes of the year 1795, he would
see that the students and all who were employed in the college,
were under the necessity of complying with the provisions of
the 13th and 14th George 111., to testify their allegiance.
Under all these circumstances, he thought their Lordships
should support this measure, for he considered that it was
one pregnant with the most beneficial results as regarded the
welfare and condition of the people of Ireland.
The Earl of WICKLOW explained in reference to the
funds to be taken for the endowment of the Catholic Church
to which subject he had referred in his speech a few months
ago. He thought that if a measure of that kind were not
carried, one infinitely more dangerous would be ultimately pro-
posed. If they did not take advantage of the present favourable
opportunity, a demand would be made in a succeeding
Parliament, and from a source not at present antici-
pated, which would sap the foundation of the Protestant
Church in Ireland. He was perfectly aware that unless some
such measure were adopted —unless other measures of a con-
ciliatory tendency succeeded the one at present before the
House, it alone would not add to the improvement and tran-
quillity of that country.
After a few words from Lord CAMPBELL,
The Marquis of BREADALBANE said that he opposed
this Bill. He was desirous to redress every grievance which
unhappily prevailed in Ireland, but he considered that every
measure of redress brought before their Lordships should always
keep in view those great landmarks and fundamental prin-
ciples which existed in their own Constitution.—( Hear,
hear.) He thought that the enactment of the Maynooth grant
entirely proceeded at first out of a spirit of toleration, as no
Catholic college could at that time be founded according to
the laws, but he thought it never was contemplated to perpe-
tuate that grant, or to throw its support for all future time upon
the people of this country. One of the best bulwarks of the
liberties and rights of the country was the establishment of the
Protestant religion, and if they sacrificed its interests they en-
dangered the safety of the constitution. The Noble Lord
then quoted a number of documents to show that the
reformation Parliament of 1675-1679 was summoned
and sanctioned by the Prince of Orange and the people, upon
strictly Protestant principles, and proceeded to say that the
present Bill was contrary to the spirit, if not contrary to the
very letter of the documents he had read. By the corona-
tion oath, her Majesty had declared the principles of the
Romish Church to be superstitious and idolatrous; and yet

. _.'

their Lordships called upon the Queen to give her sanction to
a Bill which proposed to endow thd very same error. If there
was not inconsistency in this, he did not know what consis-
tency was. These facts ought not to be got over by an aect-
dental majority, contrary to the declared sentiments of the
people of England, and if the safeguards of the Constitution
were to be violated in this most daring manner, he did not
know what would become of the rights and privileges of the
people. Government should dissolve the Parliament before
they suffered this measure to pass, for the constituencies of the
country would never have returned the present Parliament had
they had the remotest idea of the course they intended to pur-
sue. Such a course was wholly opposed to the principles
avowed by the present Government when they came into
office, and wholly opposed to the opinions of his
Noble Friends around him. It was a course dis-
countenanced by nearly every European State in
existence, and he believed there was not a free and independent
State in Christendom that did not renounce the monstrous and
absurd doctrines to be found in many of the test and class-books
used in Roman Catholic establishments. Having very imper-
fectly put their Lordships in possession of the grounds of his
opposition to the present measure, he would merely remark in
conclusion, that if there was any denomination in the country
which had more right to complain than another of this measure,
it was those who dissented from the Established Church upon
conscientious principles. They had not only their own reli-
gious establishments to maintain, but they had to contribute
as well to the Established Church, and now they were called
upon to pay for the promulgation of doctrines to which
they entertained strong conscientious objections.—( Hear. )
He again said that the measure which they were about
to adopt was wholly inconsistent with religious feeling. They
were endowing a religion on which, as on the religion of Scot-
land, they imposed no conditions—( Hear, hear)—and they
did so because they would not destroy the glare and power of
the grant. Would they tell the Presbyterians of Scotland that,
in endowing their religion, they made certain conditions which
they did not call upon the Catholics of Ireland to subscribe
to? The Noble Lord concluded by stating that he considered
the measure at variance with sound policy, wisdom, and justice.
The Earl of CHICHESTER wished to say a few words
why he should give his support to the third reading of the
Bill. He should not enter into the constitutional question
which had been involved in the measure raised by the Noble
Marquis and by other Noble Lords. He could not see any
difference between the measure of 1795, with respect to the
College of Maynooth, and the one before the House, which
he believed was but carrying out the liberal intentions on which
that measure was founded. Objections, he knew, were felt by
a numerous and respectable body of their fellow-countrymen,
to some of which he wished to address himself. . It was
felt by many that there were grave objections to the
measure on religious grounds. He differed with those who
entertained this opinion as it should not be discussed with re-
ference to the religious question involved. But it must not be
conceived that because he gave his support to this measure,
that he was desirous of injuring either the spiritual or temporal
interests of his fellow subjects. Although he, in common with
those of his Church differed with the doctrines of the Roman
Catholic Church, yet he should not act as a Christian if he
looked upon those doctrines as anti-Christian.--( Hear, hear.)
He was sure that none who had disetiseed this measure were
prepared to go that length. He held that it was fallacious to
refuse support to a religion which might be less
pure than the one which we professed, but whose
doctrines were held by a great body of the people.
They must either teach the Roman Catholics by their own
priests, or else they must be left altogether untaught. He
believed the measure to be founded en justice, and trusted that
if it were followed up by a corresponding policy on the part of
her Majesty's Government, that Ireland would be found ca-
pable of enjoying the blessings of civil and religious liberty to
which she was entitled. He confidently believed that if such
a policy were adopted that that country would be no longer a
diffieult problem in British legislation, but an aid and a sup-
port to this country. The time had gone by when Ireland
could be governed by a hostile policy—when she could be
governed by a military force, or be scourged into a tempo-
rary submission. He should vote for the measure, as he con-
sidered it due to Ireland.

cipate its effects. A new generation was sprin,Ting upp ohn,
witnessing the gnoi intentions and practical goo'rl of the Go.
vernment, would yield all the gratitude and obedience which
such good deserved. He would conclude by reading a short
extract from Burke, in whose policy this Bill had originated:
—" I spoke on the supposition that there will be a disposition
to take things as you find them, whether it be Protestant or
Catholic, or consist of both. Hitherto the plan of the Go'
vernment was to sacrifice the prosperity of the coup'
try to ideas of religious improvenaeut ; but if pe°
ple in power at length came to entertainnd P3°‘
other
ideas, and consider good order, decorum, virtue, a
rality, and legislate accordingly, they would do more good Ws
by all the polemical discussions which had occurred since
the
beginning of the world." The Noble Marquis concluded b 1
saying he would give his hearty sanction to the third readid
of the Bill.
The House then divided, when there appeared, for th.
third reading—
Contents
Present
Proxies
-- 181

Non Contents
Present .. ............................. 34
Proxies ... ......... 13
'.................... lti—bo i
Majority for the third reading... ----
On our entering the House,
The Earl of WINCHILSEA was speaking in opposition ta
the passing of the Bill, and contended that the only trued
proper course was to dissolve tbe Commons Hous of VP
meat. This was a great constitutional question Bands at ta
next election the people of England would retrace ther steps'
and give by their vote a sufficient assurance that this Ire
sure was contrary to the sense of the people of England' the
tie was
aware that he spoke with such warmth of feelings ke
was induced to fear that he was not a welcome sPea •rh
—( Hear, hear, and ~ No.") The Government under wine _
it
they lived was a hereditary monarchy, though in some se.nal
was uncontrolled. They had proposed a principle. vitna'lt
if it had been proposed by the Noble Lord behind hini,n;
one individual opposite would have voted in its behalf, an?
_,,e
thought that if it was passed it ought to be passed religious
whose principles assimilated with it. He would give ~le
liberty to all, but he could not think how one of the r'nto
Lords who had that evening addressed the House, ands:tiled
was a member of the Catholic religion, had hat
that he was prepared to submit then, bobs t—,.
were read Maynooth College to their Lordships' House, e°
lieving as he must do, that the doctrines taught there
fverer:
anti-social, disloyal, and intolerant. He woul there:grs,
n 0
00vue as an amendment that, after the expiration threef/_,
Afterf r t h ear
fseuwmwshould f
rboeingLr aonrtde di3foßrothe
BROUGHAM'
o f
The clause was negatived without a division, gad
the Bill
was then passed. : a e
Their Lordships then, at five minutes to one, aciPur-e '
this 4; , .

THE THEATRES.
DR u RY-LANE. „ s lob ire the
" Bid me discourse, I will enchant thine ear, the Queen
words which Shakspeare puts into the mouth of riatelyo-
of Beauty and Love," and they might be not inaPPlt ever re'
seined as a motto by our own Enchantress (for I)! ber olue,
membered Madame Anna Thillon, notwithstaorl'hnrice repel"
and her accent, is an English woman), they old
be not inappropriately assumed as a motto by 00,0,d, to IN
chantress who is by her fascinations atti acting c'"
Drury every evening, but alas!
" All that's bright must fade, „
.5 the
The brightest still the fleetest. vii§
We are soon doomed to lose The Enchantress; of head,de
last week but one of her engagement, and as the
oru,lo in
parture draws nigh, her powers of attraction see over.o.
Thillon in better voice—never did she sing
Last night the theatre was crowded to eves', aliusronglr:
rafr
ecw
doe
ballet Id
never did she act with <neater fascination. it Weis]
titled Nat Italie followed", in which Mademoiselle d•
the " Gitana " with great taste and elegance, an,, Aladen3l3ol,
selles Louise and Silvain gave us the " daotri,o.rnish
spirit that we could almost fancy it
selle Louise is the best dancing Spanish Dal:: the '1)--
the staffe. She is so thoroughly imbued wit, herself
was dancing the " Bolero." The ballet was
c
ceesful. was La NenoopietelY

The Earl of ROSSE said he had resided in Ireland all his
life, and was deeply interested in all that concerned that coun-
try; and believinc, that the measure would be productive of
benefit, he should give his vote in favour of the third reading.
From the time it was first proposed, he was of opinion that it
would very much improve the education of the Roman Catholic
clergy. He was, therefore, surprised when he heard it said
that the Bill contained no clause for the purpose of effecting
that object. They had a guarantee that the best education
. .

would be given to the students which it was in the power of
the teachers to impart. Those who had seen the educated
Roman Catholic priest, and the priest sent from Maynooth
with a miserably stunted education, could bear testimony to
the beneficial effects of education on the Catholic priests.
It was said that education would give poser, and that that
power would be used against the Protestant Church.
If he said that that argument was well founded, it would
be entitled to the most earnest consideration; but, in his
judgment, such an argument was totally unfounded. He
appealed to Noble Lords whether they had observed, in the
educated Roman Catholic priest, or in the priest sent from
Maynooth with a stunted education, anything hostile to the
Protestant religion. Therefore, looking to this question, in
all its points of view, he should say, and he did not think the opi-
nion could be controverted, that the Roman Catholic priesthood
of Ireland could not be expected to oppose this system of educa-
tion. But some Noble Lords had said that this measure would
result in the endowment of the Roman Catholic clergymen,
and before granting that this would be the ca-e, he should wish
to know how the revenues of both churches stood at the pre-
sent time. The revenues of the Roman Catholics had been
variously estimated, at 17,0001. at one time, and at other times
double the sum that accued to the Established Church. He
did not believe that the revenue of the Roman Catholic church
exceeded the revenue of the Established Church. But he
should say that in this measure there was not the most distant
approximation to an endowment of the Roman Catho-
lic religion. If indeed they gave the Roman Catho-
lic clergy the same power that they gave the Established
Churchmen, then there might be some ground for opposi-
tion. An agitation had long existed in Ireland, and it had
very properly been termed a religious agitation. This mea-
sure would be likely to quell that agitation. But he was per-
fectly well aware that this measure was regarded by some
parties of extreme sectarian opinions as an evil, but he was
equally sure, that by the general classes of the country it
would be considered a great boon. Now, he did think it
a great matter that the Roman Catholics should be
educated.—( Hear, hear.) They would find it the only means
of eradicating discontent and anarchy. There were many
points to which he should wish to direct the attention of the

House, but at this stage of the discussion lie should not do so.
He had no doubt, however, that every man in Ireland must be
convinced that this measure, brought forward by the Govern-
ment and passed by the other House, would conduce to the
welfare and happiness of that country. They %sere
told that if they passed this measure they might
look to the increase of sectarianism, but in his
humble judgment, the very opposite would be the effect pro-
duced. The persons who guided the peasantry of Ireland were
sensible and discreet men, who would look with horror upon
a civil war.—( Hear.) They knew that Ireland would not
maintain itself as an independent nation, and that in connexion
with no other country than this, could the public possess
so much of civil and religious liberty. The Noble Lord con-
cluded amidst loud cheers by giving his cordial support to the

Lord CL ANC ARTY defended the speech which he had
made upon the second reading, and again referred at length to
the various documents from which he had quoted on that occa-
sion, for the purpose of exposing the pernicious and unchristian
doctrines which he alleged were taught at Maynooth. He
believed it to be his duty to reject this Bill, and he trusted that
the day would come when his countrymen would appreciate the
blessings of the Reformation and be able to enjoy them.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE did not intend to take up
any great portion of the time of the House at so late an hour
of the night. But before he gave his vote in support of the
measure, he wished to make some observations as to the
grounds on which he was convinced that this vote would be
favourable to the peace of Ireland, and to the security of the
Established Church. He entirely concurred with what had
been said by the Noble Lord opposite ( Lord Bosse) as to the
advantages of having an educated instead of an unedu-
cated clergy, and as to the other benefits which the
superior education of the Roman Catholic priests would have
upon the peace of that country. Which respect to the distinc-
tion which had been attempted to be raised between a tem-
porary grant and a permanent endowment, he must say that he
could not admit that the distinction was supported by the
principle which had been so often referred to. If upon
principle they were opposed to a grant, the difference of
duration could not affect that principle. Nor could they shut
their eyes to the glaring fact that there were seven millions of
their fellow subjects who had a demand upon their assistance
for the education of their religious teachers. Noble Lords
opposite, and Right Reverend Prelates had declared that
though they had voted in favour of the temporary grant,
they were in principle opposed to a permanent endowment.
But he asked, upon the question of principle, was there the
slightest difference between an extended vote and a limited
one ?—( Hear.) Was there any principle of religion, by which
he might be a thief, a murderer, or an adulterer—( Laughter )
for a time, on condition of not asking to be permanently en-
dowed with a privilege of wrong? All who had voted in favour
of the temporary grant had admitted that the public money might
be voted for the education of the priests. Administration after
Administration had carried liberality over three-quarters of
the globe, and were they to stop at that body of people which most
claimed their support?—( Cheers)—who, because they were
most ignorant, and the most in want of the liberality of the
Government, should find you stop short with them, after
you had given away your liberality in every other quarter of
the globe ?—( Cheers.) It had been said, in the course of the
debate, that one reason for withholding this grant to Ireland
—conceded to all the rest of our possessions—was that Ireland
was a conquered people. What an objection that was to
go forth to the Irish people ?—( Cheers.) Were you to say
to them that if they obeyed the laws and avoided crime, they
should not have religious instruction. But if they committed
crime, and were sent to Van Dieman's Land, the Government
would pay for the support of their clergy?—( Cheers.) Noble
Lords and Prelates did not resist the support of the clergy of
Malta, for the sake of their trade in the Mediterranean.—
( Cheers, and laughter.) In Trinidad they supported those
" teachers of error," rather than risk a hogshead of sugar—
(Cheers and laughter)—and in Newfoundland they did the
same rather than risk the value of their cod-fish.—( Laughter.)
He would then consider the question as one of expediency. It
had been said that Mr. Burke was the first to recognise the
principle contained in the present Bill. He believed that Mr.
Burke was the first who enforced that principle on the Govern-
ment of this country. A professor of Trinity College sug-
gested to Mr. Burke, before the Government took up this
question, tbat the Catholic priests should all be made sizars of
Trinity College. This proposition produced from Mr. Burke
the emphatic and characteristic reply—" Yeu might as well
feed the Hindoos with beef, or dress their wounds with brandy."
Mr. Burke took every opportunity of forcing this principle upon
the Government. He represented it to Mr Pitt, who adopted it.
He ( the Marquis of Lansdowne) thought he was entitled to
use the argument that no one man having been brought to con-
template the state of Ireland, and who had been furnished with
the means of knowing and understanding what that state was,
that had not seen the expediency and necessity, not only of con-
tinuing the grant, but of enlarging it for the purpose of making
sufficient provision for the wants of the people. He believed
that the time would come when it would be larger, but he was
perfectly prepared to say, that he considered the vote in this
case was great, and he did not think that any Noble Lord in
voting for this Bill was obliged in any degree to support any
Bill that might be proposed hereafter. He accepted this
measure as giving value to the declaration known to have
been made at the time that measure was introduced. It was
a proof and symptom of the policy intended to be pursued
towards Ireland. He thought the Government were wise in
not stating in detail the measures which they had in view.
Such a course would prejudice both the present measure and
those that were to come. He would remind their Lordships
that the present state of Ireland was a most dangerous one. It
had been said that the measures which had been passed by their
Lordships, similar in character to the present one, had
not been received with gratitude. He found no argu-
ment in this against the measure before their Lordships.
By such measures as these they would take the power out of
the agitators hands and place it in those of the Government.
If the people did not at once repose with confidence in the
Government of this country, it was only what might be ex-
pected from a nation which, it was now admitted upon all
hands, had suffered centuries of misrule. It had been said
somewhere by an eminent writer, that a Government could
make laws but could not make prejudices, neither could they
unmake prejudices. They could not fly before time, nor anti-

Selby,
ADELPHL f Charleg
A piece de circonstance, from the Pep °
herelot e • odek•
entitled Powder and Ball, was produced given la
of the
It is a broad quiz upon the Bal Masque
ingham Palace, and is a regular screamer' Mrs. F • °sly oolgsr
late frbe givertboo,
Bal Poudre is a Mrs. Montgomerie 111, isthi
the wife of an eminent grocer. Wrig"-diaceo
habited a la Lucile Grahn and Ceritpt of brow cubside'
de la Cour and Gavotte in the most rich style laughter li-toting
imaginable, and scarcely have the roars °'„ by Wr'g„,b as 11,
before they are renewed with redoubled enel..,?:hmeett,se",,ause "
his partner, whether she will have any re'—istter, "ati ad'
horange or a hoyster, and recommending thet he sings hewing
will slip down the easiest. Add to thif, the
wav of s e.ti‘
minable parody on ,t Come gently" and bi f ifs inc"lP..wat
his respectability produces the envelop oil
broad grin
I°Y
paper, instead of his card, and all who en. stool f°r,,td both
form some faint idea of the treat that is sa
l ccosful,
the Adelphi. The piece was perfectlYc
Selby and Wright were called for at the'heoon.

-,-2----- -
rll., A It• ours
COURT CI 3:LC 7,,,,,he5s de Neje-,/ 0
Their Royal Highnesses the Duke ail"'"
minutes past e•tii:,.
left Buckingham Palace at twentyfiarrigge aroodafonuiercilly ttra
o'clock yesterday morning, in an open c
return to the Continent. The Queen, ace°, Pg-ests at the
i., i„-•,,,,,,
gPrrainn
cc, e s
entrance.R al , tookh
eleave
toefa
at hor
Gi laliunsatbtrohi ereuo
Paget, Hon. Miss Liddell, the Master of Viir'as
se
til, e trlnev, ,r,rr
et b)a,
quis of Ormonde, Lord George Lennox, the
Colonel u
Household, Colonel Berkeley Drummond, Hon.
_n ,todser•
and Major-General Sir Edward Bowater,
aweerriaegi
.31 . 1
to conduct their Royal Highnesses to their c.
en eaec_opseie!
His Serene Highness the Prince of Leiningeanee,°_,d teee
the Royal Duke and Duchess to the grand ent a"
ke soa
took leave of their Royal Highnesses.
with the Du tse
His Royal Highness Prince Albert went i 5.,,,
Duchess de Nemours to the Bricklayers Arms station, yis
South-Eastern Railway. La Baronne M. de Fitiga,oped„
George Edward Anson and M. Borel de Bretizel i" Asleg;l
another carriage and four ; and the Count de St'ob, ti,
Ambassador from his Majesty the King of the Fre:slo).
Count Louis de Noailles, Secretary to the Emboss, 4
lowed from the Palace. .geeetiA"
Before the departure of the Duke and Duchess defy' lie.
:If
their Royal Highness received a visit from her ROY' - ge".;
the Duchess of Kent, who arrived at the Palace Ot, ;)/auche-
hour, and after taking leave of the illustrious Duke an N. 0
returned to her residence, Clarence House, St. Jainet,% pout.s
His Royal Highness Prince Albert returned to ill
from the railway station, after the departure of their /
ieg in
ous visitors. oro
The Queen and Prince Albert walked yesterday 'a
the Royal Gardens of Buckingham Palace. vs 'nee Alibee
Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales, .1 bee t
the Princess Royal, and the Princess Alice, Were ta ter-
usual walks and rides to-day, in the Royal ardeaso•o Yes
Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent left t tra
day afternoon, for the Continent. arrived ingtaill
His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge.arrtio her - e
yesterday morning from Kew, and paid a visit jawes's;,oi,l
Highness, at her residence, Clarence House, S' r, his PIO
EH,iifig,h.eireciaßsoofyriasrlainHxceiegNhvGneeeisomsragtreh:e Duchess of Glouceatieoess rite.
of the Royal Duchess.
The Queen visited her Royal Mother in the afterssouse ion
caalnledd dhuisrinSgetrheenedallyetooak: 'era
Majesty and Prince Albert arrived at Clarence ~. oustr
quarter before five o'clock, and remained with thal;• ilisti
relative until a short time previous to her departuraceottisoris
At half-past five o'clock the Duchess of Nfenti., Anna ,ise
by the Prince of Leiningen, and attended by L.: Jo a ?We,
Dawson, Lady in Waiting, left Clarence Huber Royal fel
and four, for the New Cross Station, where cooper,ehslih
ness was received by Colonel Sir George ~, Illotet
Equerry and Comptroller of her Royal Ht psitia"
The Royal Duchess and suite travelled eio tst
Railway to Dover. Her Royal Highness 510
teo the,
Hotel. • 'es gra° slit° see
A deputation on the subject of life annutti
_dor hie
Commissioners of the National Debt had an inteigcial resilota.
Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday, at.his ° Or .416
in Downing-street. The deputation cons'a Ms. it,-,' rsehts
ted 0 1* al
Drummond, M.P., Mr. Gibson Craig, M.P•v,' obert iYal P'''
M.P., Mr. George Duncan, 111.P7t Alfr•;,..- Fia"."'eoisi
Moneymusk, Mr. Nicholson, Mr. (i. aia-ie I A illdhoro
Ansel', Mr. Boyd, and Mr. P. Ewart. ,and ha" -1" r,
The Ecclesiastical Commissioners for EV41110:081$
yesterday afternoon, at the office in Whi,tvepe:c.,;;:to,olo„,_..frocosnoewl,,,.
,ir,
were present the Bishop of London, the 13iil gob'r, is,
the Earl of Besborough, the Right Hen:, ,ipsies,eilsoNt.
Right Hon. J. Nicholl, and the Dean of
Mr. Wickham, Chairman of the Stam
Hon. E. Stewart, Deputy Chairman of the 1 so tbeiptor/'
Higham, Secretary and Comptroller- Generat, bid id
sioners for the Reduction of the National Deb, ~ the
with the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterea' le ' 14
ie i stse
The French Ambassador had an interete°
Aberdeen yesterday, at the Foreign-office' with PSI tatii‘l'
Mr. Felton Matthew had an interview WI o'-vit•
..s 0%0 Ito'.
yesterday, at the Colonial-office. . fro.-0000-o;bra•-,d
Dispatches were sent off last evening
~, d • hhe. ,
office, for the Governors of the West lal','-ereer,," fres"rdsf'
patches were received yesterday from the Oeja 31",/estet, oa
Mr. Carr, Mr. John Fielden, M.P., ,„a:gteelti„egs Var„Zesal
had interviews with the Chancellor of the lid di„..°"1,8 ce"Oseth
The Duchess Dowager of Cleveland bade,- 'JP- f lis-Oise
Sunday, at her residence in Seamore-Pla Lay ied oer.
included the Countess of Camperdown ariebarl,resbooa9 Ws'
Duncan, the Earl of Mulgrave, La(l9_, sir '11f,f,,,, oi'
Somerset, Mr. and Lady Anne Dashweoubossee, gipePatora
bent, Mr. and Mrs. Edmund Phipps, Air•„s Cog!" sea
Wells, Mr. Baillie, Captain R. Russell, R.,4;.' Bic" Alef:
ton and Duncan, Mr. Henry Milbank, ' ' eft'ce llor
Harr Vane. 'I sqbsa tel
' • sll $
They :Judicial Committee of the Privy Ceane Viee- le '
The Lords present were Lord Brougham' 1,1 of C°fl3 l/ I.
Oi
Knight Bruce, the Chancellor of the Doc"' 1,- sea
the Judge of the Admiralty Court. lonia utisebetise
An Appeal from St. Lucia.—" The 's C° fee
Alarryat '' was heard, Mr. Wigraul, Qduefoens the vrd;
Mr. Jervis, Queen's Counsel, heir hoe
of t'' 'oil te
parties. the Pert but te)
Lord Brougham gave judgment on below', the
ships, affirming the Decree of the Court ving
so as
costs, and adding to the judgment a else '
Of the parties in any future action. of
I"°'
_
BIRTH'S. ~_ 310. and
On On the 13th inst., at Newingtod-Plec" eoo
of the
41(1
a son. he ladY d eth"-
appeare
On the 13th inst., at Wimbledon, t-
of P°- 0.
Rev. Horace Povrys, of a daughter. Parker,
if,' of SS'.
On the 12th inst., Mrs. Thomas .r
Blackheath, of a daughter. tbe 1; -
On the 12th inst., in Oxford-terrace,
Chapman, of a son.

E sol).n Cttiloeml2modth'
JolOnin
On the Bth •
the 14th of April, at Calcutta, ,--
Inst., at New
Middlemass, Elsri:qns. A Fraser, f 511001111°'
00 trli the_ .„ . West Grhisread' fro
, rd, Esq., aged 86. Charles
Li jo
Id
1:::.
Commander, R.N. of Christ
On the inst.,
t.
0., ,
fa
atDunbar,
l:doerrtehd Brixton, riitionannd,edti;
lwg Surrey'ti°fe it
it
v,
.5,10, yo_be
tire r
the loth inst , at Westminster, SavanaeleA;cdrigief,
15 h • st., at C. attlegate,
12th inst.., at Westfield •grove, A.,.. oriel
Leeds, Marv, wife of Mr. Richard Oastler.
t in
Hale. aged 83. near IsT° Dao
On the 13th • inst., at lliousehold flo,ne,
_, 51
r So
Maria
H Maria, youngest daughter of gajor-lie ell"
Harvey, aged 25. t gr• '''
k Dor
On the 13th inst., in Old Burlington-stree , f c,,
lecher, aged 83. wife o "
On the A.
Prior, Esq. r 0
13th inst., at Blackheath, liarriott, tli,eA‘c f
0.
Middleso%, gr. Crivici„
On the 13th inst , Hd fourth daugh`" , Ay.
Smith, of Grove-1;12e, Camberwell u daughter
of
On the 14th inst., Mary Jennings, third "I"
R. Jennings, bookseller, ClleaPside.

oi
YpUtiGto,
London: Printed and Published by 3.111R11,-'~g, $O. of
112, Strand. Printer, at The Sots '-'7h1(1000
Strand. in the Precinct of the Savoy, I^..
Blidnesex, Tuesday, June 17, 1845.