The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-24 00:00:00

Stettin on the tOth of July, which was shipped on the 13th of
August, did not arrive at Liverpool till the 13th of Sept. Hull
had an advantage over Liverpool in the importation of corn
from Dantzic ; but corn could be sent from America to
Liverpool in less time than from Dantzic. Now, that justly
defines the proposition Of the gentleman who spoke to me--
namely, it was possible to bring flour from the United
States in six weeks. The Honourable Gentleman
the Member for Edinburgh, whose absence surprises me—
( Hear, hear)—matte an attack on me ; the whole of his
speech was an attack on the statements I made in
bringing forward this measure. That Right Honourable
Gentleman commenced his speech, by stating, that he,
represented so peculiar a constituency, that it was
incumbent upon him to speak. He assured that
House that his constituency was swayed by no personal inte-
rests—that they were corrupted by no prejudiced views—but,
as they were the concentrated es'enee of the intelligence of
Edinburgh—( Laughter)—it was incumbent upon him to state
his views to the House of Commons. It was unfortunate
for the Right Hon. Gentleman, considering the peculiar
position in which he was placed, and considering, also, the
intelligence of his constituents, and the welght their opinions
were calculated to have in that House—it was unfortunate for
him, and it was much to be lamented, that when they ap-
proached the division he should have retired to his repose in-
stead of being in his place in that house.—( Great laughter.)
What aid, I would ask, has the Right lion. Gentleman given
us on this question ? He voted with the Noble Lord, but he
could not assent. to my plan. Time the llon. Alember for
Wolverhampton brought forward a motion for a total repeal of
the Corn-laws, and the Right Hon. Gentleman has decamped
from the House because he will not vote.—(" Hear, hear,"
and laughter.) The Right Honourable Gentletnan
has not the manliness to say no to the proposition of the Hon.
Member for Wolverhampton ; he says, I object to the imme-
diate repeal of the Corn-laws—the word now is a insuperable
objection, but if I give my vote according to my opinion I shall
be liable to misconstruction, and, therefore, it is I absent myself
from the division.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) Why did
he say that he considered the measure precipitate, and that he
was prepared to vote against it? He relieves himself from any
possibility of misconstruction, but he leaves others, who
come exactly to the same conclusions as himself,
to take the more manly part of voting against
a proposition they cannot agree to,—( Hear, hear.) The Right
Hon. Gentleman stated that I maintained that cheap food was
no advantage. I maintained no such thing. What I stated was
that I thought it unwise and unjust to sow discontent and dis-
affection among the people by telling them there were others
who hail their provisions at a much less charge. I said I
thought the relative amount of the cost of food was not the test
of enjoy.nent, but the demand of different countries. I also
said, but net abstractedly, that I thought it was ill advised, arid
would be productive of evil consequences, to produce cheapness
of provisions by a sudden disturbance of the relations between
landlord and tenant. I did state that they might produce
sudden cheapness in provisions ; hue, they could not remedy
the evils under which the country Idboured, by having fresh
causes of disturbance, or by bringing distress among the great
body of agriculturists. It was with these qualifications I said
that I thought you were bound, in introducing cheap food,
to regard the interests that had grown up under protection,and to
regard the different laws relating to agriculture. I also said
that it was not. wise that the substantial supply of this
country shwa be derived from other countries. One word,
and one word only, with respect to the motion upan which
I trust we are now about to divide. It is en
absolute declare! inn of the opinion of this House
that the Corn-laws ought to be instantly repealed. The Hon.
Gentleman has not moved—so deeply impressed was he with
the policy of immediate repeal—that he has not moved any
protective measure. The resolution he submits to tha House
is, that the Corn-'aws ought at ()sea to be rei ealed. The
Hon. Gentleman says that he can acquiesce. He
says if they can ti! repealed they ought.—( Hear.)
The Noble Lord has come forward and distinctly stated that,
in his opinion, agriculture has no claim to Protection, that it
is for the purpose of mere revenue, to levy duty up in the im-
port of foreign coin. I nut it to him whether, if you levy duty
for that purnose, it wooed not be as legitimate to levy excise
duty on corn, the produce of th s country ?—(Cheers.) And
instead of the Noble Lord advocating a fixed duty of Bs. on
foreign corn, I think it would be well to consider and propose
a duty of 45., with a view to its being applied equally on corn
the produce of foreign countries, and corn the produce of this ;
because corn the produce of this country having no claim to
protection. it plainly would carry out the Noble Lord's views,
and he will see the advantage of an inland duty in England.—
(Laughter.—( Lord Palmerston made some remark across the
table. )—ls it possible the Noble Lord can dispute that doe-
trloe ? It is utterly impossible for him to deny that if it be le-
gitimate to the mere purposes of revenue to extinguish
all protection, and to lay a duty on the importation
of foreign corn that he cannot resist the argument that a like
duty should be taken on corn the produce of this country.
But there are those with the Noble Lord who cannot
vote with the lion. Gentleman any more than those who,
in consequence of disturbing the relations with respect to Ire-
land—of those who considet agriculture, and who are
alarmed now at any reduction of the duty on oats—all those
who dread the con.equence to Ireland of a sudden,
unlimited, and immediate importation of foreign
oats into this couutry—those who hesitate on this
subject, cannot vote with the Honourable Gentleman. Those
again who think there ought to be an interval of time between
lie present anti a total abrogation of these laws, cannot vote
wits the Hon. Gentleman. The lion. Gentleman has even
given a vague intimation that he would possibly consent to
something, if lie was certain of carrying his motion ; but his
motion for you must vote is, that the Corn-laws should
be repealed. These who are unwilling to incur that risk,
cannot vote with the Honourable Gentleman. It is
needless for me to say that, with my views, it is
impossible for me to assent to the proposition. Sir, when
I look to the proposal which I have made, and when I heard
the speech of the lion. Member for Liskeard, who told us that
he thought that those who voted against the agricultural in-
terest ought to be cautious—that he thought we ought not to
excite undue apprehension amongst the agriculturalists—that
the consequences would be dangerous to the existing interests
of the country, by causing a diminution of the cultivation of
land—bow the Hon. Gentleman can refuse to vote with me and
against the Hon Gentleman, I tan hardly comprehend.
Mr. C. HULLER—I shall vote with you.
Sir R. PEEL—I believe' the lion. Gentleman wishes for
an ultimate repeal, )et he wishes them to act with caution, and
not excite apprehensions hi the minds of the agriculturists.
I knew teat my propositio s would not have
that effect ; and it the Honourable Gentleman had seen
the communie glom I have received, I think he would
think that I have advanced as far as I possibly could without
raising those Apprehensions,. It was therefore on this account
that I anticipated his vote to-night in opposition to the Hon.
Gentleman. lam sure that if I had gone much further those
apprehensions which the Hon. Gentleman fears would have
been fulfilled. Sir, when I recollect what Mr. Ricardo's views
were—and Mr. Ricardo was no particular friend to the
agr:cultural interest—he thought the present system of
Corn-laws were difficult, that you ought to pave the way for
a better system—but he thought that when you attempt to im-
prove you must not destroy. The proposal Mr. Ricardo made
was, that a fixed duty at 205., should be imposed upon the importa-
tion of foreign corn, and that a gradual diminution should take
place each year by Is., and remain fixed at 10s. as a duty on
foreign corn. That was fifteen years ago, and the same
argument in dealing with the Core-laws would apply now.
at Mr. Ricardo thought that absolute benefit would result from
a sudden tamper ing with the Corn-laws, would he not have
expressed that ()Own? He proposed, therefore, a fixed duty
of 205., to conteme for one year, and gradually diminish till it
arrived at 10s. Compare scale 1 have prepared with the
proposal by that stated friend So free trade, Mr. Ricardo.
Compare my scale with that of Mr. Whitmore in 1828,
and then say if I have not proposed a ynaterial relaxation.
Sir, let me express an earnest. hope, that ;.1 the decision of
this question shall be taken as a decisive mark against the
motion of the Hon. Gentleman, coupling that decision with
the decision 'which was given against the motion of
the Noble Larthisiat favour of ray plan—let me entreat
the House tosetuan in mind, that as the commercial
and manufacturing si itterests of this country are not
to be tampered withsi nothing can pi oduce so much mischief
with respect to the Corn- laws, as ignorance of those proposals
which LereMajesty's Ministers may have to make. Let me
express an earnest hope that in reference to the public weal,
you wilt proceed with the utmost expedition as connected with
a proper e:eliberation of those important measures, and I
believe this bill will be a material and beneficial relaxation of
the law of the land.
Mr. HASTIE then rose to addrees the House amidst loud
cries of i• Divide, divide," Question, question," and great
confusion, which rendered the lion. Gentleman's observations
totally inaudible in the Reporter's gallery ; after reading some
documents which were supposed to be with reference to the
difficulties which arose in China in 1839, the Hon. Member re-
mint d his place, when the cries of " Divide, divide," and" Ad-
journ, adjourn." were renewed.
Mr. JOHNSTONE rose to address the House, but was un-
able to obtain a hearing.
The resolution of the Honourable Member for Wolver-
hampton, was then read by Mr. GREENY at the Table, and the
question having been put—
Lard JOHN RUSSELL rose, and said :—Sir—l know
not whether there is any reason why the debate should
not be brought to a conclusion on the present occasion,—
( Hear, hear, and cheers from the Opposition benches)—but if
she debate ought to conclude to-night, every attention should
he given to the suggestions of Hon. Gentlemen, who thought it
neconary to address the House.—( Hear, hear ) I rise, Sir,
for the purpose of protesting against the doctrine propounded
to-night by the Right Hon. Baronet, and of protesting against
the inference which will be publicly drawn from the speech of
the Right bon. Baronet.—( Year, hear.) The Right Ho-
neurable liameet tells us that there was a proposition upon
* h.ch there should be a division of this House; and when
that division was made, the House has nothing to do but to
pea% into a law, ae quickly as possible, the Bill which the Right
Hon. Baronet meant to bring iii.—(lronical cheers from the
Opowsition benches and counter cheers.) Sir, I say that that
a question for the consideration of Parliament.—( Loud
,cheers.) The Executive Government were bound to give
their best attention to the proposition which they were to
twake—it was their duty to consider it maturely.—(Hear)--
anal it is the business of Parliament to approie or pass that
motion into a law if Parliament thinks fit.—( Cheers.) What
the Executive Government had to propose was merely to con-
sider what was best to be done; and it is for Parliament to
consider whether they will agree to that measure, and in
what shape they alit have it passed into law.—(Cheering.)
That which Parliament has sow to decide is of the utmost
importance t i the inter; sts of the country, but what time did
the Executive Governmern: take this measure into considera-
tion? what time did they taise in considering,that which we
are now told the Parliament should hasten to pass into law ?
During all uncertainty as to the price of corn, all uncertainty
as to foreign commerce, all uncertainty as to whether that
measure should or should not relieve or mitigate the distress of
the country. The Executive Government took five months
to consider what that measure should be. Having taken that
time, and having taken on themselves at last to bring forward
a sliding scale, differing only in detail from the present scale,
which they took five months to consider, surely the repre-
sentatives of the people in this House, the representatives of
the agricultural interest, the representatives of the commercial
interest. and the representatives of the manufacturing interest,
.are bound to give every attention to such a measure, and
are not to he told that theyaliould hasten the matter over.—
(Loud cheers. ) Think of how great consequence your
decision will be. We have heard in the course of this discus-
siou, that there will be nothing of finality in the decision;
that, Sir, I must say, is not the view the agriculturists take of
the measure. The Right Hon. Ilaronet has told us of the
great a hensions entertained by the landed interest ; they
have been dispelled by the Right Hon. Gentleman, and I think
they would have been dispelled if a much wider treasure had.
been proposed. When you have passed this, they will say
" lhese are the tennis you required us to submit to, these are
the changes to which we assented; but having made them, we
call on you, the Government.
,and the Parliament, to abide by
it." That will be the language of the landed interest. That
have Y otuo
being the case, if is more incumbent on you to consider what is
the law you are about
to pass—it is
isnorejem,bireresuinwhiTo he
incumbent
o
to give every attention to the Hon:
address the House, and to hear their views on the question.
There is only one other topic to which I will allude, respecting
am Hon. Friend of mine, the Right Hon. Member for Edm
biargh. The course of not voting is not the course I mean to
ktiotlts myself, I mean to vote against the proposition of the
Rota. Member for Wolverhampton, but I think that
there. are eases whew a man may feel that it is his duty notjto
vote. ti and laughter.) Does the Right Hon. Gentle-
imin thhels that the present Members of the Reformed House
would now sit here, had it not been that Certain Of thz +WM'