The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-28 00:00:00

of Lords .=...--.."::.1%-..=7--
__ .
k.,interfering with the privileges of that House,
i'_ut he was OppOsed to the Commission because it vio-
fe, d principle uPon 'IA hieh . they had always
'Led, L'iieVer 'to allow any Peer to interfere
the
With
.fleetioe matters. He now wished to call
pritiOn -of the . House to the 35th clause
--ra a daiiie' 'which. -be conceived to have a
tta°s,t jnjurious tendency. The Hon. Member then
,e,.'t lheijlanse, which provided that when costs,
expenses,"lrgTeltfia'' should be reported and or-
der ,r. -m, s aid . .
i
~ eu ueli by the inhabitants of any borough or
0-°f.unt e:/, he cleric of the peace, or • the treasurer
104,_ ,„6' ' county shall levy a rate upon the
eas'er-, of: the borough, city, or county, as the
an'e rtef be, for carrying on the expenses of
11. Y kftions on the score of bribery. Now he called
till'i3n e House to look at the monstrous anomaly of
ei 54,4t5e. Assuming, for example,' that there were
es to -IS,6rOugh of Ipswich 1,000 voters, and that of
1.75et446' on each side were honest electors,
kd kiemaining hundred were the very lowest de-
ttiPg9tl of 101. voters, what were they going to do
tfYi thls clause ? They were going to levy a rate on
Le Wealthy pert of the community, who would
ire-2to pay the whole expense of petitioning.
tle coUld conceive nothing more opposed to the ordi-
tr3', principles of legislation than such a mode of pro-
erPg• He trusted, however, that those clauses to
tmlen_ he objected might be amended in Committee ;
th'l if this were done, he could have no objection to
tfell4lll. He should not, therefore, press the motion
towili6i'lle had given notice, that the Bill should be
ditllln.Thittld that clay six months. 'He felt that by then
env,l4t.N.lhe House on such a motion he would only
cariass' those with whom he usually coincided in
*llion.
Q.
thaTi,r‘l4. PEEL begged to assure his Hon. Friend
to ' ne'c&iiil not feel any embarrassment as to the
prettrse he should pursue on that occasion, as he was
el Pared. to act upon his own convictions respecting
"ireaiure
'Wit •
ttte-.%e• ACKINNON said that he wished to avoid
th le against. his own friends. He begged leave,
et,4l`l,l•e, to withdraw his motion.
' motion was accordingly withdrawn.
Ifi,lv.r.ter a few= words from Sir R. H. INGLIS and
kitl m O'CoNNeee, the House resolved into a Coe
itee en the Bill, Mr. GREENE in the Chair.'
th'''r- 'C. BULLER said that there were three
tises, from 34 to 37, which, although he thought
kerinciple valuable, he had, upon consideration,
Iv, lip his mindto withdraw for the present. There
I)rchre. technical difficulties which might prevent their
lione from being easily carried into effect.
'' R INGLIS said he would not follow the Hon.
til:Ile/n.9 his details. The objection he had to
4 lain was one of principle, and perhaps there Would
(0,..110 objection to take the discussion then.—
(.\'`'er, orer.)
.
WI Clause 1 being proposed,
te;l4T• O'CONNELL said it seemed to hini that
frn..._ar-
v • ,
nents could be made to pay head-money with-.
0111 infringing
kohirlfringing this clause. -He thought that if head-.
11,4" V Was paid before the vote was given, it would
thesFl3nle. within the operation of the clause.
ir It.. PEEL said that if money were paid before
...(ire was given, it would be considered as bribery.
est`,„ ?,ar, hear.) If the words "in.pursuance of any.
ob,A.6e. were left out, he thought it would meet the
Ittion of the Hon.. and Learned Gentleman.
ebi '• BERNAL agreed with the Right Honour-
* Et: Baronet. To pay money before the vote
I"te given was bribery under the existing law.
itb r
totai_. espect to basket-money, that was a sort of
S10:1111g fee, and was, in effect,' decided bribery.
lita a system ought to be put.a stop to, as well as
i'hini. ortkie- ,
ber• TURNER knew that, in many instances
tlie e taxes had not been paid, they were settled by
honeendidates. He wished to know from the Right
fel, • taronet whether that was, or was not an of-
e
Sir R
tit, R. PEEL was not competent to answer that
it
. .
e,,Art,r- O'CONNELL proposed the insertion of the
~;is "before at or after, ' in the clause.
.t he A:• •
eti,, . ITORNEY-GENERAL thought the words
I;ecessar
ieeler• O'CONNELL said that his object was to
If thtnt the payment of money on any contract; but
Ntdd lion- and Learned Gentleman thought they
14 themecumber the clause, he would not persevere
Sir ',l.t
•claPuEseEL thought it better to leave the
ei-ieral
to n
s.
of ,
then to recite respecting bribery untouched, and
that a practice of paying various
head-moue°lle Y under the names of basket-money,
that those Y' kce to voters prevailed at elections, and
._ practices
LstiQuld be considered as bribery.
mentioned, as an instance of
;11, practices, that at the • last Belfast:. election one
ihad aid 750/. for car hire ' --- •
10;2'4 8.:..4 1 t 'quoted the Report of the Compromise.
Vinti-Connnittee to slow that the stopping of
1117 7t,ribefy caused fin increase of treating. He
tt)(itealfie necessity of introducing a clause to put
Itl4,lo'the practice ,of giving dinners to voters,
*As 'often adopted in the place of head-money.
Nveb ,itirtlCEB . would suggest that it would be as
tleip?esert in that clause something to the effect
bleb ?insert
was. a doubt as to what constituted
tile 01.. He thought that was only fair to
1 At enstitueticies in which that usage had prevailed.
tf the. same 'time, he thought the definition
headlk,- money by the Right Hon. Gentleman was
ef,
at -ctlY 'correct. Head-money no doubt was spent
tratieities which succeeded the election.
Ii lIERNAL thought what had fallen from the
aught Ron. Gentleman was deserving of very great
11tion. He remembered the Right Hon. Gentleman
teadlg a measure to meet the great evil of intimidation,
April 'e acme up that measure, as he found that to dove-
pro th asure on that Bill would be to impede the
teecss of that measure. He (Mr. Bernal) went the
to, length of the Right Hon. Gentleman about treat-
IQ ; and unless they did something to remedy this evil
i 1 Would do no good. They would find that as much
lt-eellief arose after the passing of the Bill as before.
to had been proved that a greet sum had been paid
who
in Newcastle. There were other men
111 ° did not carry colours, yet they walked before
w colour-men, and were termed " gaffers?' They
C:eall voters, and were paid. Now, all these points
ie'e„. red consideration. To-morrow a Committee
%tie'. 1, might decide that paying the colour-men
14, the e gaffers," was not bribery, while the Corn-
. belt& in No. 2, might hold that it was
or ws well aware of the danger
k Pass sing that a
clause, and he should, therefor e,
11..!gest that the Right Hon. Gentleman, who was
14 iisoe to this Bill, should omit the clause, and
rteK,e the Bill a Bill of Discovery, to discover bribery.
S WORTLEY was quite of opinion that no
wilst S.
ec,,ennclusion on a subject of so much im-
k-`4nee could be arrived at, without some
ke,ter tribunal. If this Bill should establish
it a tribunal he could not help thinking that
Wouldlat be sufficient to confine the enactment of the
lfi.elause to the single purpose of removing the doubt
o,leti existed in the present law, which would then
f, enough power and discretion in the hands
fop the tribunal. He agreed with the Hon. Member
Voi. Dun pr von, that the practice of giving dinners to
tfrs might, in many instances, come under the head
tte, bribery as much as giving money for a vote. He
br4t, however, be cautious in distinguishing between
t °eecelings really intended to operate in the election
4 influencin 6 • the voters, and bona fide festivities
en at -a time of exultation by a candidate to his
!hie t e stituents. He thought that they might have the
k4ing- clause on .bribery as it was, with the
the ion, which might be placed in the preamble, for
itti i
;;Purpose of removing the doubt which existed in
' k .present law.
ih'l.,•a.l, inlr. AGLIONBY said the remarks of the Member
V.gs,
.:nrevouth showed how difficult it would be to
ii—, rent' bribery and corruption, but he showed
ATE grounds whatever . why the Honourable
IflTtber for Liskeard should withdraw his clause.
,this clause did not do all that could be wished, it
it
~'east removed one great evil. He did not know
roat course he would pursue until he knew whether
etict the words Fro posed to be introduced, namely,
before,// at, or a ter, 'were adopted by the House.
sibi thought those words would meet every pos-
ern'e ease. In the 15th clause he would propose an
ti;,°,'ldment which he thought would be adopted by
A
' `-cenrnittee. He was of opinion there might be
eontract where no previous head-money had been
p
:'11• The town of Carlisle had tor many years been
it-'et'ely contested. Up to the passing of the Reform Bill
ce,:as One of the most expensive elections in the
111,71tr3'. Since the Reform Bill it had been one of
li purest constituencies in the country, and
41.4 nead'-money had been paid.--(Hear, hear.)
'ie.
Flat
' the last election, for the first time
,:* Came under the denomination of head-money
•Ar c openly paid without any subterfuge whatever.
'id'. voter who plumpered for the Conservative candi-
e Le' got 2/. as head-money, whilst a voter who gave
split vote gat one sovereign. He thought that came
hler the term head-money. Instead of the words
01 Pursuance of," he wished to introduce the words,
Ic9pursuance of, or without any usage or custom,
11' B. PEEL thought it was better to leave out
Abe
xi„words altogether, and to make the proof of the
,e"'"enee of the usage proof of the existence of
„ offence. They should not, because they could not,
111* all the abuses, refuse to cure an ad-
btea evil. When the Bill was .brought forward
j the Noble Lord, he said that he thought
ip- attempt to discourage it would be ineffectual,
t6theY left the law as to treating as it
~1 stood, and that 'if they could during the
r~, ent :iession, without unnecessary interfe-
c . Ithe
i - wita liberty of the subject, throw
in pediments in the way of treating, they would be effect-
eorina' great practical good. One of the greatest abuses
tor;eetrd with the present system of eleetiens ti by
le,;,suPticiT of. voters by means of treating. In the first
Ai `C it corrupted .the constituencies, and introduced
~,`9l,_ Immoral habits, the effect of which was much more
'4"tneut thin the 'dared= of-the-election. --In the