The Sun.
London, England, 1827-06-16 00:00:00

STATE OF IRELAND.

Mr. G. ]MORE had to present a petition which called
the attention of the House to the present state of Ireland,
and to the condition of the great mass of its inhabitants.
At all times this was a question which merited the most
grave consideration of Parliament, but more particularly at
the present moment. The two countries were approachingto that state of identity and amalgamation, that the English
peasantry must sink to the level of the peasantry of Ire-
land, or the latter must he raised to the level of the pea-
santry of England. He had heard emigration named as
one of the means by which much of the evils at present
affecting Ireland might be removed. He had heard what
had fallen from an Hon. Bart. on this subject last night ;
but with every respect for that Hon. Bart. he must sa3
that the removal of persons of capital, industry, and skill,
from Ireland at the present moment, would he highly
injurious to that country. But it might be asked, if emi-
gration would not remedy the evil, what would ? On this
point he ventured, with all respect, to differ from those who
said that Ireland was not capable of affording sufficient
employment to its redundant population. He should be able
to show, if opportunity were given, that Ireland possessed
mines of iron, lead, and even of silver, in a much larger pro-
portion than England ; that her coal-mines were equal to
those of England, and that she possessed a larger quantity of
waste land capable of being brought into cultivation than
England ; and that her fisheries would, if properly di-
rected, be equally productive. What was the cause of
the great wealth of England ? The application of
industry to her great internal resources. Was it not
important that the same advantages should be held out to
Ireland ? The statements he had made he could prove.
From the records of that House, be could show that mil-
lions of acres of land were now uncultivated and unprodue-
tive in Ireland, which, with the application of manual
labour, might, in a short time, be worth thirty shillings
per acre. From the Report of the Committee of 1823, it
appeared that there were two millions of acres of bog,
every one of which might be reclaimed ;—that there were
also one million and a half of acres of mountain land, half
a million of which might be turned into arable, and the
remaining million into good pasture laud, with no very
expensive cultivation. In pointing out these matters to

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the atientiots, bt the lasi, he *4l tetteitect by to 1%14.61
or party raoliieo• - All' he ..ought* sr that due consider-
ation should be givenr soimpof_ienf.a subject: If asked
)ad
how the .a4VO h tagee ,pouitid out touktbe realised,
he would 64 fiat 'Leap be4leita only by the application
of Capital. He imer4 woatif be4aidlitat capital would
not be applied, while no Auffia:cut security was afforded,
owing to the di/ten:bed state Ortiae country. This was
a subject into which he would not now enter, lest he
should give occasion to the expression of any divided opi-
nion on a matter on which all should be agreed. Bat he
would say—what was sufficiently proved by all who were
examined before a Committee of that House—that what-
ever disturbance did exist might be removed by giving
employment to the idle. He regretted that the petition
had not been given to him earlier in the Session, as he
would undoubtedly hare founded some measure upon it:
He hoped, however, that the petition would not be unpro-
ductive of a good effect.
The petition was then brought np and read. It prayed,
that general and permanent employment might be provided
for the peasantry of Ireland, and pointed out several.modes
by which that object might be obtained.
It was ordered to be printed.
PRIVATE BILLS.
- - -

Mr. HUME had to move certain resolution' for ape,
diting private Bills in their pregress through that House.
As there wu no'objeetion to his motion, be would move
his resolutions now, have them printed, and on Tuesday
he would bring forward the discussion on them.
The. first resolution was then put, with the under-
standing that the debate on it should be adjourned tg
Tuesday. It was, that all private Bills printed by or*
of the House should, in the first instance, have the blanks
filled up in black-letter.—The question was then adjourned
to Tuesday.
DUTIES ON INSURANCE.

Mr. HUME presented a petition from the Forfar and
Perthshire Insurance Company, praying for the reduction
of the duties paid on insurances. Ile observed, tat as a
question of revenue, there was no doubt that the whole
duty paid to Government would be increased if the amount
of the tax on each policy was reduced by one half. The
amount of duty paid last year was, in England, 661,000/. ;
in Scotland, 63,0001. ; in Ireland, 23,0001. ; making in
all 727,0001. Me earnestly entreated the attention of the
ight Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskiefion) to this subject.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON supported the prayer of
the petition. "Ile was, however, willing to let the matter
stand till next session, when, if it were not taken up by
Government, he should feel it his duty to introduce a inn-
eon respecting it:
The petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from a person named
George William Butlert of Bermondsey, stating that one
shilling per month was deducted from the wages of Mer-
chant Seamen, for the support of the Merchant Seamen's
Hospital, and complaining that the whole amount deduct-
ed was not applied as intended. It prayed some inquiry
into the subject.
The petition was ordered to be printed.
RETAIL BREWERS.

Mr. J. WOOD rose to present a petition from certain
retail brewers, praying for the repeal of such parts of the
35th of George 111. as were inconsistent with the provi-
sions of the sth of George IV., under which the system of
retail breweries was established ; and also requesting that
the time for retailing beer by those individuals might be
extended from nine to ten o'clock at night. The retail
brewers, he believed, were obnoxious to the publicans and
to the great brewers. One instance had reached him, in
which the directors of a great dock-yard had declared, that
none of the beer of a retail brewer should pass within the
walls of the yard ; none but servants who carried beer in
pewter pots were allowed to enter the yard. The conse-
quence of all the opposition which had been raised against
the retail brewers was, that many of them had been ruined.
Informatians had been laid against them for acts which
they knew not to be illegal, and they had suffered severely.
By the sth of George IV., any retail brewer allowing
beer to be drunk on his premises, was liable to a penalty
of 1001., but that penalty was reeoverable, and only re-
coverable, by the same Act, by action in the Court
of Exchequer. This latter Act was evidently intended
to repeal a part of the 36th of George 111., which gave a
summary jurisdiction to Magistrates. But as the intention
to repeal that part was not specifically mentioned, the Ma-
gistrates had, in several instances, proceeded under the old
act. Now, if those individttale were to be punished, it
ought to be done as the law pointed out, and not by a sum-
mary conviction before Magistrates. The sth of Geo. IV.
did not allow the retail brewer to sell his beer before six
o'clock in the morning, nor after nine o'clock at night.—
The parties concerned wished—and it was not an unrea-
sonable wish—to have an hour added to the time. This
petition was signed by fourteen retail brewers. There were
originally twenty-four of that class. Ten, however, had
been ruined by the hostility which was put in active force
against them ; and since this petition had been placed in
his hands, three of the subscribers had undergone a simi-
lar fate.
The petition was then brought up.
Mr. HERRIES believed the evils complained of were
rather partial than general. The Excise, he thought it
right to observe, had not, in any instance, interfered in fa-
vour of those proceedings. Se far as those who were con-
cerned in the administration of the revenue laws were af-
fected, he was sure that their support would be afforded in
the opposite way ; their desire was, to give to all parties
willing to embark in the business, the best opportunity of
diffusing, as generally as possible, the practice of retailing
beer, as allowed by the sth of George IV. He must say,
that those individuals had always expressed the utmost
readiness to have the law properly enforced ; and to see
that nothing was done to impede the course of justice, or
unfairly to prevent the correct operation of the act.
Mr. MABERLY observed, that if there were one law
on the statute-book which, more than another, required
regulation, it was that respecting the duties on beer. At
this moment the poor paid 26 per cent. more than they
ought. If a Committee were granted, he would prove that
fact to the satisfaction of every gentleman engaged in the
inquiry. The rich man now paid 20e., the poor man
555., on the quarter of malt.
Mr. F. PALMER observed, that the retail brewers
were, by the calling into action of the 35th of Geo. 111.,
placed in a most extraordinary situation. If the Magi-
strates were wrong in their decision, and if, as the Hon.
Gentleman had stated, Government were anaious to give
every possible protection to the retail brewer, then, he
would ask, was it too late to pass a Bill explaining the in-
tent and meaning of the sth of Geo. IV., as it appeared
that part of that statute was not properly worded ?
The petition was then read. On the motion that it be

printed,
Mr. J. WOOD suggested, whether a (ileum) might not
be inserted, either in the Excise Bill, or in the Malt Bill,
to restrain the operation of such parts of the 35th Geo. 111.
as were at variance with the provisions of the Act of the
sth of Gro. IV.
To this no answer was given.—Petition to be printed.
RELIGIOUS TOLERATION.

Petitions praying for the repeal of the Corporation and
Test Acts, and for liberty of conscience, were presented by
Lord Stanley, from the Unitarians of Newchurch, Lanes-
shire ; by Mr. Spring Rice, from Barnet, Redford, and
6e other places in Middlesex and Hertfordshire ; by Sir
W. W. Wynn, from seven places in Wells ; by Lord E.
Somerset, from Cheltenham, Tilbury, Stroud, and twelve
other places in Gloucestershire; by Sir T. Aeland, from
Hereford, and several other places ; by Mr. Easthope, from
Hackney; and by Mr. Faxakerly, from five towns in Lin-
colnshire and one in Rutland.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON gave notice, as far as v e
ceuld hear him, that it was his intention to move for a re -
duction of the duties upon policies of insurance.
Mr. H. GRATTAN presented a petition from Aaron
Atkinson, of Dublin, stating that he had claims to lands in
descent from his paternal grandfather, and that he could
not establish his right by a suit in Equity, for want of
adequate funds, whilst he was unable to sue in forma
pariperis, as he could not make oath that he was riot worth
five pounds. The petitioner prayed that the House would
appoint three Commissioners to examine into his case.
Mr. H. GRATTAN presented a petition from the Prin-
ters of Dahlia, praying that no alteration might he made in
the Combination Laws.
Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS brought up the Returns of
Promotions in the Royal Navy.
Mr. HEATHCOTE moved for the production of a state-
ment of the registry of the tonnage of all vessels entered in-
wards and outwards in thetßritish Empire, to and from the
ports of Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the Hanseatic Towns,
and the ports of Prussia, from 1815 to 1826, inclusive,
stating the aggregate amount of British and Foreign ton-
nage, in each year.
Mr. HUSKISSON moved the Order of the Day for the
House resolving itself into a Committee of the whole
House, upon the Customs' Bill.
The SPEAKER having left the Chair, the Bill was read
a first time; and upon the CHAIRMAN., putting the
second reading,
Mr. HUME felt himself under the necessity of expressing
a hope that the Right Hon. Gentleman did not intend to
pus this Bill in the present Session.—.(Hear, hear ! from
the Treasury Benches.)—The Right Hon. Gentleman
mast be aware, when the Resolutions were agreed to,
upon what considerations the assent of the House had been
z;ieen. He had called the atteutiva of the Right Host.

Oeutletaan to serral subjects connected with the sill,
and had rentvied his inquiries in every stage of it, but could
obtain ric! information. Many merchants were not
aware, 'what were the provisions of this Bill, so little was
ke.own upon the subject. The Bill appeared to him at
variance with all the principles laid down by the Right
Hon. Gentleman; for he had promised, when the Custom
and Warehouse Bills passed, that all future legislation
would be to separate, and not to jumble them. He should,
therefore, submit to the House, that if there were not very
urgent reasons for the Bill being carried through the
Committee, it should be postponed until the public should be
aware of what was intended by Government.
Mr. HITSKISSON said, that the course pursued by the
Hon. Member for Aberdeen appeared Co him the most ex-
traordinary. In 1825, after much inquiry, all the laws
of the Customs were consolidated and brought into five
or six laws. Of these, the Law relating to Smuggling
was one, the Navigation Law Was another, the Registry
Warehouse Law ar.zother, and so on. In the year 1826,
it was found r.cessary to consolidate these laws. In that
year a Bill, exactly corresponding with the Bill now under
consid:::ration, was brought into the House, and passed.--
It was of the nature of an addenda to the Consolidation
Pill, and in the margin of it was stated the different heads
under which all the Laws of the Customs were at present
divided. The Bill was itself the moat simple and cir-
cumstantial mode of referring to the alterations which had
been made. He could conceive no method so simple or so
satisfactory as that of bringing all the alterations into one
Bills with a reference to each of them in the margin. It
was solely with this view, and for this object alone, that he
Lad brought in the Bill now before the Committee. He
had thought it right to bring it in at this late period of the
Session, when it was likely that all the alterations would
be made that were desirable to be made, and the Bill could
then be debated by Parliament as an addition to the Law
of Customs, with a marginal direction or reference to every
Act which it altered.

Mr. HUME felt convinced, that neither the public nor
the Members of that House were sufficiently aware of the
nature of the present Bill, to make it proper for Ministers
to Inc'es it through the House in the present Session. No-
bee' y suppose that it related to smuggling, and such
subjects as it would be found upon investigation to embrace.
At each stage of the Bill, his (Mr. Hume's) side of the
'oes:• had required to be furnished with information of
what were the plane and intentions of Ministers, and all
intelligence had been withheld. It had, nevertheless, been
promised at the first, second, and third reading, to produce
a table or schedule referred to in the hill, showing what
every law was, and what alterations were intended.
Mr. HERRIES said, it was very easy for any Member
to convey such imputations in general terms, but he denied
the justice of their application in the present instance.
Mr. HUME disclaimed any wish to cast an imputation
of any sort upon the Ministers concerned in the measure.
Mr. HERRIES had called the Hon. Member to order,
considering that his statement did convey an imputation,
and he was confirmed in that opinion, althOligh, from what
the Hon. Member had just said, the imputation was not of
that invidious nature which be (Mr. Herries) had con-
ceived. If the Hon. Mero'Jer would attentively look at the
provisions of the Bill, he would find that Government bad
no intention w/V.:teyer but to amend that which essentially
wanted amendment. As to the charge or complaint which
the Hop. Member had made, respecting Ministers not hay-
ing laid before the House the schedule or table of compa-
rative duties, which he woaid allow had been promised, he
(Mr. Herries) could give what he trusted would be a very
satisfactory explanation. He had in fact given directions
that the schedule should be made out and printed, in order
to its being laid before the House ; but it did not happen
to be so easy an operation as he had conceived, to supply
the information in the way which he thought desirable.
lie had wished to draw it up in the shape of two columns,
opposite to each other.—ln order to present a comparison
of the duties in their former state, and as they were intend-
ed to be put. But diffieulties existed in this arrangement,
for the duties were not specific in their rates, but depended
on the mode of taking them, and it was found almost im-
possible to set them correctly in opposition.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said there were several
clauses of the Bill to which he objected, and others of
which he highly approved, and which he deemed essential
alterations in the present Laws. The Bill was an amalga-
mation of the Custom, Excise, Navigation, Registry, and
Salvage Laws. He thought they ought to be brought for-
ward separately, which would admit of their being dis-
cussed with more advantage; but he hoped the Hon. Mem-
ber would not resist the Bill altogether.
Mr. IRVING was extremely sorry that a Bill contain-
ing so many clauses of the highest importance should have
been suffered to remain so long in abeyance. There were
some of the clauses upon which he should make a few ob- 4
servations in the progress of the Bill through the House ;
but to the general principles of the Bill he should give his
hearty concurrence.
Mr. WARBURtON wait not surpr:eed that the Hon.
Member who spoke last should approve of the principles of
the Bill, as, upon more than one occasion during the pre-
sent Session, he had expressed himself hostile to the princi-
ples of free trade ; and he (Mr. Warburton) would be able
to show that there were many clauses of the Bill totally at
variance with those greatprinciples of free trade which the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Huskisson) was the
ad vor.ate. _(Laugh ter. )
The CHAIRMAN then pat the question for reading the
Bill a second time, which was carried.
Upon putting the Salvage clause,

Mr. INARBUR TON said that this clause exhibited a
certain degree of rapacity in Government, and the Bill
ought to be brought forward in a. future Session. He
wished to say one thing in favour of that principle which
save Government a common risk with the owner where
they were to derive a common advantage in salvages. The
three things to consider were the duty, the cargo, and the
freight. The common principle of justice was, that where
a sum was paid to save the ship, each party should bear
his loss in proportion to the risk. The Government, he
thought, could have no objection to such a regulation.
The Salvage clause was then withdrawn.
After a few words from Mr. Alderman Thompson, Mr.
Irving, and Mr. Warburton.

Mi. P. THOMSON said that it was with the utmost
Segret and diffidence that he offered opposition to a proposi.
tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, but really when he
censidered the clause before the House, he knew not
whether he-should regard it with feelings of greater regret
or surprise. The list of enumerated articles was formed
in the reign of Charles 11., and was one of those laws by
which it was thought advisable at the time to give what
was called Protection to British Shipping. The number
then amounted to 28. On the consolidation of the law, in
6th Geo. IV., the list reduced, however, to 22 articles,
was contained in the Statute Book, although contrary to the
principle contended for by the :Right. Hon. Gentleman
opposite (as he felt sure he would have the c dent' to
admit), more in compliance with the prejudices of the ship-
owners, than from any other cause. It was not now the
question whether it was wise to do this or not; perhaps
it would he advisable to accommodate our prejudices, and
when the object was of little importance, to compromise a
principle. But it was now proposed by this clause, to
increase the number of enumerated articles, or in other
words, in the delicate language of the clause, to ex-
elude from the protection it afforded six articles, and
restrict thirteen in lieu ; that is to say, that six articles
of no sort of importance whatever were to he freed,
and tii:rte•en articles of the greatest importance to the
trade ,:ere to be brought under restriction. Let the
House only examine the articles—amongst those freed
are rosin, pitch, vinegar, sugar, potashes, and salt, not
one a which, except pitch, came in any quantity what-
ever ti any part in Europe. What were the articles to
be placed under restriction ?—He would venture to say,
the most important articles of any imported into this
country of the kind. And upon what possible grounds
was this alteration proposed ? Was it an alteration in the
law upon principle ? If the Right Hon. Gentleman told
Lim that he had changed his opinion upon the principle,
that the doctrine which Le held in 1825, on the subject of
the " enumerated articles," he no longer held, he should be
sorry for it, but he should understand the introduction of
the clause—but the Right Hon. Gentleman would do no
such thing. The only argument he offered was, that the
intention of the Act in Charles the Second's time was to
include bulky articles, and the bulky article of import being
now changed, it was necessary to change the articles—but
if it were so, it wile not necessary to increase the number
but he wisheil to make a strong distinction between not
disturbing a right (though founded on a wrong principle),
which had existed for a long period of time, and acting
anew upon a principle allowed to be innocent. And he
would ask what other grounds the Right Hon. Gentleman
had for the alteration ? He could not say, that it was to
further the interest of the Shipowers, because he himself,
the other night, had demonstrated in the clearest manner,
that so far from the Shipowners having suffered by the
alteration in the Navigation Laws, by the Reciprocity
Treaties, they had gained by it. And what case had been
made out with respect to the articles? Could the Right Hon.
Gentleman shew that the articles were imported in foreign
ships ? Had any returns been laid upon the table of the
House to show that they had ? He could yeature to say,
that, with one exception, bark of oak, which came into
this country in foreign ships, because British ships would
not load it, it paid so bad a freight, that there were no
instances of any importance of the other articles being
brought in in foreign ships; other than the ;hips of cowl-

tries producing them. Now, the Right Hon. Gentleman
would allow that the proposed restrictions, inasmuch as
they were beneficial to the shipowners, must be injurious
to the consumers—and if they were not injurious to the
consumers by raising the price of the article, could be of
no benefit to the shipowner. With regard to the greater
part of these articles, therefore, all indeed with the excep-
tion of bark, no advantage could arise to the shipowner,

and the law, as far as he was concerned, would be a mere
dead letter. With regard to bark, however, it would be
most injurious to the manufacturer and consumer. He
had conversed with individuals acquainted with the trade,
and their opinion was that the measure of the Right Hon.
Gentleman would raise the price of bark ten shillings per
ton nearly. In fact, this measure did little for the ship-
owner, for the British ship could not afford to load such a
miserable article as hark, at a rate which would not almost
permit its importation. And let the Right Hon. Gent. look
to the consequences of this measure : let him consider to
what a charge of inconsistency and vacillation it laid us open.
What must foreign nations, to whom we were addressing
our liberal policy, think of us ? Would they not naturally
say that our pretensions to a more liberal system were
absurd, when to-day we were making protestations which
to-marrow we acted in direct opposition to ? Upon this
ground alone, if on no other, he would intreat the Right
Honourable Gentleman to withdraw this clause; or, if
he would not withdraw it, on the ground of decency
that he should postpone it, at least, until the sentiments
of those interested in the question could be fairly heard.
It was with the utmost regret that he opposed the Right
Hon. Gentleman, who knew that there was no man in the
House, or out of it, who more admired his talents or vene-
rated his principles; but it was because he did so, because
he felt that the character of the Right Hdn. Gentleman
was intimated in the question, because his firmness in re-
iisting the clamour of his opponents was not less admirable

than his courage in introducing reforms, and because he

knew that this clause would be hailed by all the opponents
of the Right Hon. Gentleman as a triumph for them, and
a proof of weakness in him, that he entreated him to
withdraw it • but, at all events, he called upon all those

Members who had supported the Right Hon. Gentleman's
liberal policy, as they wished to avoid the charge ofincon-
sistency, and upon all those who had constituents in the
commercial and manufacturing classes to unite with him
in opposing it.

Mr. HUSKISSON—Our ancestors had, for the pro-
tection and encouragement of British shipping, wisely pro-
hibited the importation of certain articles, except in British
vessels, or else the vessels of the countries of which those
articles were the growth and produce. These articles were
generally articles of bulk, which came from a distance, and
were ranked under the head of " Enumerated Articles."
All other articles were allowed to be imported in whips of
all countries. In the course of time, since the reign of
Charles II:, it was not surprising to find that fire or six
of these enumerated articles had ceased to become articles of
importation. Vinegar, for instance, by having a high pro-
tectiug duty, bad ceased to become an article of importation,
or next to it. The other five articles about to be omitted were
of a similar description, and were no longer articles of im -
portation to any extent. Finding it right to take these from
among the enumerated articles, he found, on looking
round, that there were several other articles not imported
under the Act of Navigation, but which were largely im-
ported at present. Now he Would ask, whether, if it was
right to exclude the one article from the " enumerated ar-

tides," because it had ceased to become an article of import
to any amount, it was not equally right to include another
article, or number of articles, because their importation had
greatly increased ? This, he contended, was no departure
from our general system of commerce; on the contrary, it
would only have the effect of rendering it more perfect.—
(Hear, hear. )—When men entered into a discussion of the
general commerce of a nation, and the means of improving
it, they were bound to consider how far that commerce
ought to be sacrificed to the commercial marine of the
country.—(Hear, hear.).—But let him inquire for a mo-
ment how this bakers' dozen of the Hon. Member had been
made out? First, then, among the 13 articles about to be
made " enumerated," there were lemons and oranges,
which, though mentioned separately for the sake of clear-
ness, came properly under one head. Then there
mentioned " hemp-seed, rape-seed, and clover-seed,",
though strictly, they ought to come under the general he

of "seeds ;" again there was " madder and madder roots,"
though the articles being used for the same purpose
might fairly he considered as one, so that the number of
articles was reduced from thirteen to nine.—(Hear, hear,
hear.)---But these articles of lemons and oranges, barilla,
madder and madder roots, came from considerable distances,
and from countries who had no shipping of their own, and,
therefore, when it was said that such articles must be im-
ported, either in British ships or those of the countries
where they grew, and were produced, it was, in point of
fact, confirining the traffic to British vessels alone.—(Hear,
hear, hear.)—He did not object to foreign vessels import-
ing their own produce here, but vessels from a third State
importing, were to be looked to with jealousy, and if we
were to interfere at all, it would be more just to do it at
once, and before foreign vessel,: had become established in
this carrying trade. After alluding to the importation of
bark from Holland, the Right Hon. Member went on to
observe again, that where the interests of commerce rain.
into collision with our Navigation Laws, the interests of
commerce must give way, and those of navigation prevail.
—(Hear, hear.)—He felt the difficulty and delicacy of his
situation in attempting to regulate any general commercial
question ; he knew that there were always to be found
persons opposed to his plans, and ready to point them out as
injurious. But in every case he tried to steer clear of those
objections and conflicting interests, and to act as impar-
tially, and as much for the general benefit as well of the
parties concerned, as of the community at large, as it was
in his power to do.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—He cared not,
though he should be represented as a political economist
lie cared not though lie should be again, as he had been
before, accused of having abandoned his political principles
and changed his opinions upon this subject.—(Loud cries
of hear, from all parts of the House.)—He would still
persevere in giving his best attention to the commercial
interests of the country ; and while he kept the great prin-
ciples of commerce in his mind, he should endeavour so to
modify them as to meet the circumstances of the times, and
the peculiar circumstances of different branches of our
trade.—(Hear, hear, hear.)---It was with this view he
proposed that the Clause in question should not coins into
operation before the Ist of January next. He maintained
that our Commercial and Navigation Laws were more
liberal than those of any other country.—(Hear.)—ln the
United States—a Government held up by many as a model
to all others—no importation was allowed by foreign yes-
sels, unless those carrying the produce of their country;
while here we had only 28 articles which might not be
openly imported by all foreigners. He wished here to add,
that the next clause he meant to propose was one for the
relief of the Shipping Interest. By the present Act, every
ship was bound to carry at least one apprentice upon etch
hundred tons, and to enter into regular articles with their
seamen. Now he proposed to do away with the heavy tax
at present paid upon the indentures and articles used on
such occasions._..(Hear, hear.)
Mr. W. MARSHALL asked a question, which was not
quite audible in the Gallery.
Mr. HUSKISSON, in a reply almost an low, was un-
derstood to say, that it certainly was net his intention to
postpone the alteration of these laws, day after day, or
week after week; but he would attend to the measure, and
propose such alterations as should appear absolutely neces-
sary from a change of circumstances.
Mr. BERNAL thought, that in the present state of the
Shipping Interest, we could not afford to throw away, in
favour of the6llloiott States, our chance of the general car-
rying trade. ,
Mr. ataIdeturai.;,TIIOMPSON "hoped that the Right
Hon. Gentleman would withdraw the Clause.
Mr. WARD also opposed the Clause.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, that he trusted he should not
be accused of any wish to sacrifice the interests of any par-
ticular body of men ; but he really could not consent to
withdraw the Clause, believing as he did that it was neces-
sary for the support of the best part of our Navigation
System. It was almost impossible to legislate on some
subjects, without appearing to interfere with particular
interests.

Mr. HUME was sorry he could not agree with the Right
llon. Gentleman, whom he had supported in all his plans
regarding free trade, and whom he had assisted as far as he
could in resisting the idle and interested clamour which
those plans bad occasioned. Ile must, however, oppose
the present clause, as he thought it a return to that system
of restriction which the Right Hon. Gentleman had for-
merly deprecated. lie must say, that he regretted exceed-
ingly to see the Right Hon. Gentleman thus yielding to
clamour, and forsaking those principles which he bad hi-
therto so ably supported.

Mr. HUSKISSON trusted, that after the speech he had
recently delivered in that House, and after the conduct he
had uniformly pursued, no one would accuse him of yielding
to idle clamour.

Mr. C. GRANT defended his Right Hon. Friend from
the charge of yielding to clamour, and contended that the
present Clause was necessary, in order to assist in maintain-
ing that which bad been the great object of our Navigation
Laws, The alterations which had already been made in
those laws had been made openly ; but if this Clause was
not carried, those alteration!, without hating been so in-

tended, would go to deprive the shipowners of advantages
which they now believed they possessed.
Mr. P. THOMPSON wished to leave the shipowners
as they were, and not to give them any fresh privileges. He
denied that his opposition to this measure had been in the
least degree influenced by private interest.
The Clause was then agreed to.

Mr. lIUSKISSON was about to propose another
Clause, the introduction of which, he was sure, would lay
him under no imputation of a wish to injure the shipping
interest. In the dontinent of South America there were
some very valuable mines of copper ; but from the want of
fuel, the want of capital, and the want of skill, the opera-
tion of smelting it was difficult, if not almost impossible.
Now this country happily possessed those advantages of fuel,
capital, and skill, which would enable us to make the
smelting of that ore a profitable branch of industry. With
'the view of ascertaining whether this could be advantage-
ously effected, the Government had for some time allowed
the importation of copper ore, for the purposes of being
smelted and then exported, The innovation thus made by
way of experiment having been hitherto successful, he
wished to legalise it ; and he therefore proposed to intro-
duce a clause permitting the importation of copper ore for
the purposes he had mentioned, with this advantage to the
shipping interest, that these importations were only to be
made in British bottoms.

Sir R. VIVYAN opposed the clause, as he thought it
would injure the interests of the owners of copper mines in
Cornwall.

Mr. PENDARVES also opposed the clause.

Mr. HUSKISSON did not think that the measure pro-
posed would injure the interests of the persons mentioned;
but even if it should do so to a small extent, he thought
the general benefit ought to be preferred to the interests of
any particular class. The effect of the clause would be to
establish a new and profitable branch of industry ; and he
wished to remind those Hon. Members who bad opposed
it, that the importations of ore were not for the purpose of
home consumption ; but with a view of being smelted for
exportation.
Mr. Alderman WOOD made some observations with re-
ference to the time at which the proposed Claude was in-
troduced, although he had no particular objection to the
Clause itself.

After a few words from Mr. WARBURTON, the Clause
was agreed to ; as were all the others severally.
The House having resumed, the Report was brought up
and ordered to be printed, and taken into further considera-
tion on Monday next.