The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-01 00:00:00

in those matters; but this was the nature of things. the next thing they did was to let the United States out
—(Hear, hear.) He (Sir Charles Napier) himself of their engagement to co-operate for the suppression of
might be in office, but they could find many that trade, and they were now about to cancel
better men than be was. Were they to think that gen- a treaty with France for the mutual right
tlemen of the House of Commons, who came there to of search. Was he the only person who thought that
make a House, to keep a House, and cheer the Ministers, the mutual right of search was essential to the suppres-
were the only persons to conduct naval matters ? He sion of the slave trade? The first authority to which he
only found fault with the construction of the 90-gun would refer was one at the time of 1814, at the con-
ships and all the small ships, the 44-gun ships and the elusion of the war. The Noble Lord then read an ex •
59-gun ships, which were good fur nothing ; and the tract from a dispatch from Lord Castlereagh to the Duke
sloops of war the Gallant Admiral knew, as well as he of Wellington in 1814, in which the necessity and im-
did, were good for nothing. lie was not opposing those portance of prevailing upon France to establish a mutual
small ships which were of such use as former occasions. right of search was set forth. So strongly at that
When they came to blockade coasts and keep ships time was the importance of this measure felt,
during winter, they found those small ships work well. that the Prince Regent, with the advice of his Ministers,
He could not allow the Gallant Admiral to persuade the wrote a letter to the King of France, urging this point,
House that the Penelope, that porpoise, was a good and expressing in the strongest terms his anxiety that
steamer, for it was well known by the Captain that there the French Government would agree to the proposal
was not an officer in her that had a dry jacket. The the Duke of Wellington was instructed to make. The
Penelope, with steam, in a calm, would do very well, Duke of Wellington, on the 26th of August, 1814, made
otherwise she had only 4 feet 11 inches out of the a proposal for a mutual right of search within the
water, instead of six feet. There was not an officer that northern tropic, as far as longitude 25 from Greenwich,
did not knew it. She was the most splendid man-of-war which was to the same extent as the treaties
in the world when she had no coals in.—(Laughter.) then existing with Spain and Portugal. Upon
Well, then, if she was the finest vessel in the world, why that note a conference with the plenipotentiaries
not make Penelopes of all the men-of-war?—(Laughter.) of France, Austria, and Russia, was held. That
That was another fact to which he would wish to call memorandum was transmitted to the respective
the attention of the Gallant Admiral opposite. And Courts, but there was no answer to it till the conven-
now he came to the case of the Terrible, and he would Lion of Aix-la-Chapelle, in ISIS. A number of ques-
tell the Gallant Admiral that he was deceived about that tions had been sent to be answered, and they were of
vessel ; she never was intended to carry guns astern at importance in this respect, that the answers to them
all, for she could not carry them.—(Hear, hear.) It showed that the slave trade was in those times accom-
was true that many improvements had been made in her; raided with as many horrors and excesses as it was at
but the best thing the Admiralty could do in her regard the present, moment, contrary to the opinions of some
would be to correct in the vessels now in progress who thought that the measures adopted with regard to
of building the errors made in the Terrible.-- the slave. trade had increased its cruelty and harshness.
(Hear, hear.) One of her defects was that On the 29th of September, 1822. the Duke of Welling-
her ports were only 4 feet llf inches out of ton wrote to Mr. Canning from Paris. In that memoran-
the water, and the consequence was, her engines sunk dum he stated, that the slave trade was carried on
her much too low. Then, with regard to the Penelope, generally under the flag of France, for the obvious rea•
of which he had been speaking—why, in fact, half the son that France was the only one of the great maritime
power of the engines of that vessel was lost owing to her Powers of Europe which had not entered into the tree-
defective construction.—(Hear, hear.) Another matter ties concluded with his Britannic Majesty, and the other
he had to mention was one which was really provoking powers had too much respect for the flag of France to
to a degree to think of—(Hear, hear)—and there were a seize those vessels which sailed under it. The Duke of
great many Hon. and Gallant Members present, at both Wellington went on to say, that endeavours had been
sides of the House, whose concurrence in his views on made to introduce improvements with respect to Spain
those points delighted him, end they had come forward and the Netherlands, but no improvements could be
to bear him out in a manner that did him credit.— carried into effect as long as a contraband trade was
(Hear.) The House had already heard, from the Mediter- carried on under so respectable a flag as that of France.
ranean, that there was a feeling in favour of the Queen. The memorandum had been sent to the Congress of
Now he had not the reports with him in reference to this Verona in November 1822, but the Congress separated
ship ; but he had read it to the House before, and a most with a vague expression of their desire to see an end
amusing report it was—(A laugh)—for the answer to put to the slave trade. Now he (Lord Palmerston)
every question in the report was—" Not tried."—(A would say that no man of proper understanding could
laugh.) One question was—" How did she ride at doubt, even if there was no authority to prove it, that it
anchor?" and the answer was—" Not tried." Of course was absolutely impossible, unless there was a mutual
she had not, for she had been moored at Malta harbour right of search, to put an end to the slave trade—
all the time.—(A laugh.) Then, there was the Culling- (Cheers)—and that the conduct of the Government, in
wood. In respect to that vessel, all he would say was, having virtually given up the mutual right of search with
that if her construction had not gone too far, he would France, was quite inconsistent with all their declarations,
strongly recommend that she should be bnilt upon the the consequence of which they now found to be the
plan of the Vanguard, which was admitted to be a well- augmentation of their navy. He confessed the declare-
constructed ship.—(Hear, hear.) Ile understood that tions made by the Government with regard to the slave
such a mistake had been made, in regard to the Tremen- trade were calculated to excite the most painful feelings
dous, that she was now about to be cut down, without in the minds of those who heard them. But perhaps it
the least compunction.—(Laughter.) Under these cir- might be said his alarms were unfounded, because of
cumstances, he felt bound to bring forward this subject the result that might be expected from the labours of the
before the House, and not lose the opportunity of doing Commission, that Commission being composed of two
so, however much he might regret the cause that corn- distinguished mon, who enjoyed the highest possible
pelled him to do so. reputation. He could place no confidence in men placed
Sir G. COCKBURN hoped he had said nothing that in their position, for they could only come to one result.
the Hon. and Gallant Officer could find fault with in If, indeed, they were asked to consult upon some means
regard to himself personally. With regard to the state- in addition to the right of search, for the suppres-
ments he (Sir G. Cockburn) had made, all he could say sion of the slave trade, he could place confidence in
was, that he had given his authorities for those state- their labours, because they could say nothing more
ments, and the Gallant Officer had contradicted them; was to be done. But in Lord Aberdeen's dispatch it
but he (Sir G. Cockburn) could not see what good could was said that the right of search treaty was
result from asserting and contradicting in that way. suspended in the meantime, and once suspended
Mr. lIUME did not intend to oppose the present pro. by the mutual consent of the two Powers, it could not
position, though he did consider it a large one; but he be revived again without their consent. And to make it
did hope that her Majesty's Government would not lose more humiliating to this country it seemed that the pro-
sight of the claims of meritorious officers in the contem. position for its suspension was made a condition imposed
plated promotions.—(Hear, hear.) He also hoped that by France upon England.—(Hear, hear.) It was in-
some system of regulation would be adopted in regard deed painful to see two individuals of such distinguished
to those promotions, for it was the only country in character compelled to do work so little worthy. Of
Europe that had not some such regulation. lie had the reputation they had hitherto maintained he could
received many letters from very deserving and merito- only say that if the Government pursued the course
rious officers who complained of being put aside, al- they seemed determined on pursuing, an enormous in-
though they wished to continue in the service, and crease of the slave trade must be the manifest. result.
young men put in their place.—(Hear, hear.) On these Looking at the returns he saw that there was a
grounds he did hope that something like a rule would narked increase in the number of slaves landed
be adopted in making promotions, and that it would no on the continent and islands of America
longer be said by the Government, as an excuse for un- since they had left office ; and, though it had been said
just promotions, that there were some younger members that this was owing to the exertions of General Valdez,
of the aristocracy for whom they should provide. and sonic sudden changes in the Government of Brazil,
Lord PALMERSTON said he had a few observations and also that some assistance was afforded by the
to make upon this question. The navy was at all times Governments of Cuba and Rio, yet, without denying that
the most important branch of the service of this country, these causes o; crated in a slight d grce, be maintained
but it never was more peculiarly so than it was at the it was owing much more to the measures which the
present period.—(Hear, hear.) Without adverting to late Government adopted, with respect to the Portuguese
events which had happened, or which might happen at vessels, both north and south of the line, and the mea-
no distant period, he did think that enough had sures they adopted with regard to the baracoons on the
transpired and taken place between this coun- coast of Africa, both of which caused the Brazil, Spauish
try and foreign countries to convince the and Portuguese capital to he withdrawn from the slave
British Government, that they should turn their most traffic. He did not wi-h to throw blame on any one ;
serious attention to the state of their naval defence, but he believed the traffic had lately increased.
with a view to place it in the most efficient state polsible. lie should be curious to see the returns. If the Govern-
-(Hear, hear.) When first the present Governmenacame meet persisted in their plan of relinquishing the mutual
into power, they flattered themselves, that by making right of search, there must be an enormous increase of
certain concessions and acquiescencies to the wishes of the estimates of the navy ; and, if they looked to what
certain foreign Powers, they would be able to sustain their passed, it was curious to see how the Government, in
friendly relations with them, as far as regarded their na- dealing with foreign Powers, were led on from one step
val and military establishment ; but he (Lord Palmerston) downwards to another.—(Hear, hear.) What passed
conceived they had gone too far in making these eonces- w ith respect to this particular commission ? M. Guizot,
sions, and what was the result ? According to what who had negotiated the treaty of the right of search in
had transpired within the last few mouths, in the decla- this country, was an ardent supporter of the treaty. He
rations of the King of the French and the Queen of authorised his ambassador in London to sign it, but in
England, it appeared that this country had, within a six weeks afterwards he turned round and refused to
very short period, been on the verge of a serious rupture ratify it, which, he must say, was a breach of national
with France. Then,_ they had heard enough of the usage and of good faith.—(Hear, hear.) And this
state of the United States of America to impress upon was done without any remonstrance ; but the
the Government of this country, the fact that it would French Chambers, encouraged by that, demanded of
be impossible to rate too highly the value and import- M. Guizot that he should ask to have the treaties of
ance of having their naval force in the most efficient 1831 and 1833 cancelled. What was the reply of M.
state possible.—(Hear, hear.) Consideringalso that En- Guizot ? He said, " Ilow can you ask me to cancel
land was possessed of colonies whose value was of such existing treaties ? Why, what would be the conse-
importance to them that their naval force could not be quence ? I shall be met by a distinct refusal on the
in a state too efficient to defend them.—(Hear, hear.) part of the English Cabinet, and will you ask of me to
The first point, then, they had to consider was, as to the submit my country to a direct refusal, which would be
number of ships they had, the number they had in an an insult to her.' That answer was accepted by the
efficient state, and their different qualifications.— French Chambers, but M. Guizot soon found that he was
(Hear.) Ha had heard the Gallant Officer near him entirely mistaken in the men whom he had to deal with.
speak upon this subject, and it evidently ap- Then there came other things ; there came the Ash-
peared that he was much more capable of express- burton capitulation and the dealings with Spain, which
ing an opinion upon it thaa he (Lord P.) was. led M. Guizot to see that he was dealing with persona
He thought the discussion of that evening had shown, who—to use a phrase of his lion. Friend the Member for
if it had been doubted before, that they were come to a Finsbury--e" were made of very squeezable materials."
pass, at which it was expedient that the Government M. Guizot then said to the French Chambers, " Well, I
should call in science to the aid of practice, with regard have been thinking these twelvemonths on this subject,
to the construction of ships, because it was all very well and now I think that these negotiations may not be so.
for the Right Hon. and Gallant Admiral to say, as he hopeless as I thought they were last year, and that, by
had that night, that in the last war we had ships that doing so, I will not expose my country to such a decided
were regarded as of a clumsy and unsatisfactory de- and peremptory refusal ; ' and M. Guizot judged rightly
acription, but that with these ships our sailors had sailed of the men with whom he had to deal. The negotiations.
after and overtaken the enemy, and defeated a superior were entered upon, and M. Guizot had been successful.
force. But this was not a proof that our ships were The Government of this country, out of compliance to
good. It only proved that our sailors were expert and a foreign Government, and to rattihtain as they thought
skilful, and that with inferior ships they had triumphed one foreign Minister in power laix months longer than
over the enemy. The French ships that were taken, he otherwise might rtt;in it, and to catch for
when they came into our service, were admitted to be him a few vole'', on a narrow division, sacrificed
very superior to our own ships by which they had been all those pritnples which this country, the nation, and
overcome. This, therefore, only proved the superiority Parli'..".iient had for years held as most sacred, and
of our sailors over those opposed to them. It was well were goingto bring upon the innocent and unoffending in-
known to persons at all acquainted with the matt,:-,. that habitants of Africa an increase of those horrors which
no problem in science or mathematics w", more diffi- must necessarily accompany the slave-trade.—([?ear,
cult to solve than that respecting tte construction of a hear.) He could only say if they pursued that course it
ship destined for the purpose!, of a war. It was not very would be difficult for men to determine, and he would
easy for the most skilful mathematician to tell what leave it to them to choose whether they would be guilty
form a solid body sheald he in order to be best adapted either of most miserable weakness, or most hateful and
to go rapidly through a fluid. It was not very easy detestable hypocrisy.—(Cheers.)
beforehand to say what would be the floating line of Sir R. PEEL said that he would fast address himself
it ship not launched. It was not very easy to tell before- to what had fallen from the Hon. and Gallant Officer
hand what construction would give the greatest steadi- opposite. He regretted that the Hon. and Gallant Offi-
ness to a ship. Mere practical men could not do this, cer had been prevented from making his motion
and the man of science, in giving an opinion upon these in the manner lie himself wished (Hear) but
points, must take into his consideration the principles of he had an opportunity of making his speech
stowage, and in this, of course, he would require the as- and lie could not help thinking that the result would not
sistance of the practical seaman. They had been told be very different if he had made the motion in the
that the Admiralty were trying the experiment of em- manner he intended. The Noble Lord said that he con-
ploying two or three men—one man to build three ships, curred with the Gallant Officer in the opinion that
and another four, and S 9 on. That was very science ought to be called in aid of practical experience
praiseworthy, as far as it went, and it un- in rea ect to naval improvements. He (Sir R. Peel)
doubtedly showed a great desire to improve concurred in that sentiment; but the question was who
and perfect the construction of ships of war. should be the presiding authority when science was
But, with all deference to the Admiralty, he did not called in aid of practical experience. The Gallant
held them altogether to be possessed of that scientific Officer proposed a Committee, but he (Sir Robert
Knowledge which was a necessary element of this sub- Peel) must say that the Board of Admiralty was
ject, and, therefore, they ought to call in the aid of the proper tribunal to conduct an inquiry of
scientific men, and also the experience of practical nen. that kind, and to decide upon its results. lie
—(Hear, hear.) lie thought this would involve a very could conceive no advantage in superseding the au.
trifling expense, while it would be the means of approach- thority of the Board of Admiralty, by making them su-
ing to certainty with respect to the principle of con- bordinate to the authority of the Commission sought to
structing ships. Undoubtedly, the class of ships which be established. He apprehended that the Board of Ad-
peculiarly required the attention of the Government was miralty took the course which the Hon. and Gallant
the steam-ships. It was quite evident that the Officer opposite recommended the Commission composed
construction of their ships required great improvement. of naval officers to take. It did avail itself of the assist-
The Right Hon. Baronet had said that we were placed ance of men __distinguished for science and for practical
on a satisfactory footing in this respect, as compared knowledge. If this Commission was appointed, a dis-
with other countries ; that our horse-power of steam, trust in the present Board of Admiralty would be clearly,
as compared with the horse-power of our nearest-neigh- implied, and there could be no doubt but both Boards
boor, was in the ratio of three to two. Ho did not would come into collision in a manner which would be
think that was altogether a satisfactory statement, as far from serviceable to the country. lie did not object
the Right Hon. Baronet had omitted to state what was to the course which the lion. and Gallant Officer had
tho proportion of the vessels, which was a material taken as to the propriety of calling in the aid of men of
point of consideration. Now there was another branch of science. When they looked to the immense sums of
this subject which his Hon.andGallantFriend had intended money expended in the building of ships, he must consi-
to bring under the consideration of the House, but whie% der it of the utmost importance that any experiment for
he had purposely abstained from touching on that night, improving the construction of vessels should be fairly
because the subject was too large to be treated inei- tested. What he contended for was, that as the Board
dentally, and some more fitting occasion would present of Admiralty was responsible for the expenses of the navy,
itself for bringing it forward. He (Lord Palmerston) its authority ought to be enforced, and they should be
meant that part of the motion which referred to the entrusted with the conduct of experiments. Why the
defence of our dockyards and protection of our coasts. Board had contemplated these experiments by calling
That was a most important subject, and he would not for an additional number of seamen for, otherwise, those
anticipate what his Hon. and Gallant Friend might say experiments could not be made. If the e navy ...as re-
uponmor e lt
urgently, but h e
required believed
theth t
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en wasattnto no subject
of the Go- national
which ductieodnatol
stahfeetyb,atrheesneutmriablesrcoolfild mennot consistentHisw
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ith the
vernment and of that House. There was one other lion. Friend at the head of the Admiralty expressed
point connected with this subject which he could not re- himself entirely of the same opinion with the Gallant
frain from saying a few words upon. lie did not at all Officer opposite in this respect, and even invited
agree with Hon. Gentlemen who found fault with the the assistance of the Gallant Commodore, and offered to
amount of the force, nor did he require any further ex- place at his disposal a steam-vessel, which his great
planation from the Government to justify the increase naval knowledge and experience would enable him to
they had made. lie would, however offer a few words upon superintend.—(llear, hear, and cheers.)
the augmentation of the force, at the stations on the Sir C. NAPIER--I have been applying these twenty
coast of Africa for the suppression of the slave trade. years for it.
Now, he should most cheerfully concur in any reason- Sir B. PEEL—And the Gallant Officer has now, from
able augmentation of furoe for so great an object, but a Board of Admiralty composed of men of adverse
he
must even that there did appear to him a great and politics, obtained now what he fruitlessly, sought for
manifest inconsistency between the proposal which the during twenty years.—(llear, hear.) Could anything
Government now made and the language which they be a stronger proof of the proper constitution of
held on the subject of le slave trade. He might say the present Board of Admiralty ?—(Hear, hear.) The
witllnut eeaggeraeion, that the present Government had Board was presided ow r by the most distinguished
turned out their predecessors on the question of the slave member of the naval profession.—(Hear, hear.) The
trade. It was the division on the great sugar debate, Gallant Officer said that Board was formed from party
which had caused their accession to office, and on that considerations, and that if there was a change of Act-
occasion they had said that to admit Brazilian sugar ministration he might be a member of the Board of
would be impious, as it would only have the effect of en- Admiralty. Well lee (Sir it. Teel) would think the
couraging the slave trade. What had happened ? The choice a judicious one. The Hon. and Gallant Officer
very first thing they did after coming into power was to might speak of his friends beside him, but surely a.
ratify a treaty for the suppression of the slave trade,, and laoutel of which such men as Admiral Gage and the Hone