The Sun.
London, England, 1842-03-22 00:00:00

l'_~7

tlemen opposite, the unanswerable speeches of Hon. Gentlemen
on his side of the House—he could hardly think it necessary
for him to proceed, but ho would not on that occasion give a
silent vote. —( Cheers and counter-cheers.) If Hon. Gentle-
men opposite did not think those speeches unanswerable he
hoped they would favour the House with arguments and figures
to show that if the measures proposed last year had been passed,
they should now be obliged to have recourse to an income tax
to supply a deficiency of 4,000,0091.—( Cheers.) That tax had
been denounced by men of the greatest eminence, and by nearly
every constituency in the kingdom in 1816, as the most inqui•
slim:al, the most oppressive, and the most intolerable that hu-
man ingenuity could devise.—(Cheers.) He did not wish to
go farther into the subject, feeling that the arguments used by
his side of the House had exhausted the subject.—( Cheers anti
counter-cheers.) But when he found the House was about to
go to a sdivision, and that Honourable Gentlemen opposite
were adhering to the "silent sytsem," he thought it necessary
ti e debate should not terminate wi.hout hearing what Hon.
Gentlemen opposite had to • say.—( Hear, hear.) If Hon.
Gentlemen referred to the debate of 1816, they would find that
night after night for months before the then (;hancellor of the
Exchequer brought forward his proposition, the subject had
been discussed on the presentation of the petitions, and some
of the best speeches had been made on such occasions. But
Hon. Gentlemen should recollect that that rule being altered,
and, as he thought, very wisely altered, they should expect to
have more time consumed in the debates now, and they should
not exhibit such impatience to come to a division.—( Hear,
hear.) He thought that the public interests required that
more time should be now spent in debates. For his own part
he had no indisposition to go to an immediate vote, if theparty
opposite were determined to adhere to the " silent system."
And he had no doubt that when they came to a division, the
Right Hon. Baronet would have a large majority ; and he
only hoped that—if the tax were imposed, and that, while he
trusted if it were necessary, the people would submit to it—they
were not throwing away that great weapon from any struggle
in which they may he engaged in an European war.—( Cheers. )
Colonel SIBTHORP rose amidst loud cries of "Divide, di-
vide," and :" Oh, oh." He said he would not trouble the
House, were it not for the allusion, which had been made to him
by the Right Hon. Baronet who had. ust sat down, though he
knew not for what reason he alluded to him.—(Laughter.)
The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) was, he was glad to
say, placed in the responsible position which he occupied by the
united voice of his country. When lie heard the Right Hon.
Baronet attacked for the measure he proposed to augment the
finances of the country, he was attacked for his endeavour to re.
trim them from the position in which they were placed by the
misconduct and delinquency of the party opposite.—(Loud cheers
and " Oh, oh.") It is true he resorted to extreme measures to
meet the extreme delinquencies of the party opposite.—(Cheers
and "Oh, oh.") He saw the Noble Lord, the late Secretary for
Foreign Affairs, who seemed to stand behind the two sinking pil-
lars on his side—(Loud laughter)—smarting under the loss of power,
place, and salary,—(Renewed laughter.) His Right Hon. Friend
(Sir R. Peel) did not act like the Noble Lord. He was never
obliged to have recourse to a tail seaming a head.—(Loud
laughter.) No. That independent, honest, and manly man—
(Laughter)—would scorn to have recourse to such attempts.
He was a tower of strength, and he would be supported.—
(Laughter.) He was called on to make these observations in
consequence of what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet
(Sir G. Grey), but as lie was on his legs he could not avoid saying
that his Right Hon. Friend (Sir Robert Peel) would have his
humble but sincere support.—(Cries of" Hear," and " Divide.")
Mr. 13LEWITT moved that the Chairman report progress, and
ask leave to sit again.—(" Oh, oh," and " Divide, divide.")
The Gallery was then ordered to be cleared for a Division, on
the motion of the Hon. Member, when
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that as there were many Gentle-
men who wished to continue the debate, he hoped it would not be
interrupted. He trusted that there would be no indisposition on
the part of the Committee to listen to any Hon. Gentleman
who wished to speak--(Hear.) But before they proceeded
any further he wished to ask a question with regard to
a notice of motion given by an Hon. Member, as to an amendment
of the resolution. A question was to be asked, whetherany excep-
tion from the tax was to be made fu favour of persons having ter-
minable annuities, or incomes from trades and professions': And
that question could only be put by taking away the first part of
the resolution. He should, therefore, like to know the opinion of
the Chairman, whether, supposing the intentions of the Right
Hon. Baronet were carried, it would be competent to move a re-
solution of that description?
Mr. GREENE was understood to say that he must express his
opinion that it would be contrary to the rules to omit words of the
resolution, and he apprehended it would not be competent to move
such a resolution as the Noble Lord alluded to in a Committee of
Ways and Meant, but that it would in a Committee on the Bill.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he was then to understand that if
the Resolutions before the Committee were carried, it would not
be competent to move the resolution in a Committee of Ways and
Means, but that it would in Committee on the Bill.
Mr. BLEWITT said he would persevere in his motion, as he be-
lieved the measure would press on the country in the most despotic
and aristocratic manner.
The gallery was then cleared for a division, but no division took
place. On our entrance we found
Sir It. PEEL stating that the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir G.
Grey) had said that he was unwilling to travel over the field which
had been already so much beaten, and, as far as he was concerned,
he was perfectly ready to go on with the discussion. He trusted
that the House would reject the motion

Lord J. RUSSELL said he had no wish to prolong the debate,
but if the Hon. Gentleman persisted in dividing the House, he
would think it his duty to vote against an adjournment.

Mr. PROTHEROE said it was stated that this proceeding was
one for which there was a precedent in former Parliaments. He
begged to ask the Hon. Gentleman who proposed the adjournment
whether he proposed it for the purpose of securing further discus-
sion, or merely to mark his dissent from the measure of the Right
non. Gentleman ? If it was for the latter purpose, he could not
give him his support . If it was for the purpose of securing fur-
ther discussion, he should submit to him that it was too early to
propose an adjournment.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BLEWITT said he should imitate the prudence of the
Right Hon. Baronet, and decline to answer the questiou,—(Great
laughter.)

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided,
when there appeared,
For the motion
Against it
Majority against the motion

Immediately after the division was over, and before the gallery
was opened,

Dr. BOW RING (as we understood) moved that the Chairman
do report progress. On our readmission to the gallery, we found—
Mr. BLEWITT on his legs. He said that the Right
Honourable Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, had
turned out the late Ministry, and had taken five months
to deliberate on the propositions which he should make
! with regard to taxation. —(Cries of " Oh :" from the Ministerial
Benches, answered by vehement cheering from the Opposition
Benches.) Yes! the Right. Hon. Baronet had taken five months to
deliberate on his proposition—(Continued Opposition cheers)—and
he had stated them to the House on Friday week last.—(Loud
cheers.) It was only on Friday last that he had stated to the House
the machinery by which he proposed to carry his plan of taxation
into effect, and now he refused to give the House time to deliberate
on the proposition, or the country time to consider it.—(Loud
cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet had taken five or six mouths
and the House was to have no time at all.—(Vehement cheering.)
Such conduct was not fair either to the House or to the country.
Capt. BERKELEY had voted against the motion for adjourn-
ment because he considered it was not fair to stop the discussion at
that early hour, but he must say that he thought there was equally
as much faction in a dead silence—(Loud cheers)—and in the de-
termination to come to a vote without any attempt at answering the
vt ry forcible speech of the Right Honourable Baronet on his (Cap.
UM Berkeley's) side of the House, he saw quite as much evidence
01 faction as in voting for an early adjournment.—(Loud cheers.)
Sir GEORGE GREY said that reference had been made to what
had fallen from hid in the course of the discussion, as to the argu-
ments on his (Sir G. Grey's) side of the House being exhausted.
He had not for a moment meant to say—indeed it would have been
presumption in him to have done so—he had not for a moment
meant to say that no arguments could be urged against the measure:
what lie had meant to say was, that after the several speeches
which he had heard, in which the arguments against the measure
had been urged with great ability, arid to which he had heard
scarcely any attempt at reply—(Cheers)—he should not fatigue the
House by entering into any lengthened arguments on points which
had already been discussed. He had never had the presumption to
say that Hon. Members were to be precluded from addressing the
House on subjects which were so intereseing both to themselves and
their constituents. On the contrary, his own opinion was the debate
ought to be protracted—(Cheers)—and he had voted against the
motion which had just been negatived, merely because he saw nu
reason why the debate should not be continued until the usual
hour for adjournment.—(Cheers,)

Mr. FOX MAULE said he undoubtedly voted in the minority;
and he gave his vote, not with respect to any discussion that had
taken place on that motion, but because he wished to see
the vote upon these resolutions determinately delayed.
(Loud cheers-) He had made an appeal to the Bight Ho.
nourable Baronet before that discussion was opened ; that
night he (Mr. Fox Maule) told him that a vast number
of the people of his (Mr. Mauler') country had not even the know-
ledge that these resolutions had been proposed; and it was upon
this ground that he (Mr. F. Maule) was found in the minority. It
was on this ground that he intended, by all legitimate grounds its
his power, to prevent the vote.—(Loud cheers.)
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but no division took
place. On our return to the gallery we found
Mr. VERNON S MIT II addressing the House. He said that
he never remembered a great question like the present one on
which all the Cabinet Ministers remained silent. lie must say
that they had treated this question with contempt to impose so
mighty a tax on the people of this country with so
little argument in its favour, for which he would not except
the very able speech of the Eight Hon. Baronet, the Member for
Tainworth, because he had declined to enter into any argument i❑
behalf of the machinery of raising the tax. He must say that this
question had not been debated in the manner it ought to have
been. He was not endeavouring to offer a factious opposition, but
he would say that it was au intolerable mode of proceeding, and one
to which they ought not to submit, however large the majority, in
forcing such a measure through the House without debate. He
confessed he was perfectly astonished that the Bight Hon. Baronet
who had usually shown such deference ainl courtesy to the House of
Commons at the course he had taken on that occasion. It was for
that reason he (Mr. V. Smith) was found in the minority, and
voting for the adjournment, and not for the purpose of delaying
indefinitely the debate on that question, which he hoped to see
properly debated in the face of that House and the face of the
country.

Sir J. GRAHAM, who spoke in an extremely low tone of voice,
said, that the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, had attacked
the Cabinet Ministers for their silence on that occasion, but the
Hon. Gentleman seemed not to recollect the speech of the Right
Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who went fully into the
question. He was quite surprised that no Cabinet Minister had
spoken in this debate. Now, he could remind the House and the
country, that in the early part of that evening an announcement
had been made of a determined opposition on the other side of the
House. The House had been informed that night by the Noble
Lord, that he should take the opinion of the House on these reso.
lutions, and that it was his intention, when the Bill founded on
those resolutions was brought in, to divide the House on the first
reading of it. On the second reading of the Bill, he, there-
fore, anticipated ample discussion.—(Loud cheering.) It was for
the public convenience that no unnecessary delay should
take place on that preliminary question. They did not
wish to avoid discussion ; on the contrary, they were willing fully
to er.ter into it, but on the present occasion this was only the intro.
duction of the preliminary measure, when such a course of opposi-
tion—(rhe rest of the sentence was lost in the loud cheers that fol.
lowed on the Ministerial side of the House.)
Sir B. HALL said he agreed in what had fallen from the Right
Hon. Baronet who had spoken last, that it was necessary to come
to a resolution on that subject; but when there was so much op-
position in that House and the country ; when they were placed
in that situation, as stated by the Speaker—when these resolutions
should be adopteii, viz., that it was not possible for the people to
petition against the measure—the position in which they were
placed by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head Lf her Majesty's
Government—who acted wisely, he would say, in not answering
questions as to the details of the questions brought forward, and
adhered to strict silence, and refusing to declare to the country
what his views were, and only a few days had elapsed since that
statement had been made ; and in one week they wore called upon
to determine as to this tax, which would press heavily on all classes,
and which, as regarded many, was most obnoxious—he thought
the least they could expect from the Government was, that time
should be given for the country to consider that great proposition;
to consider whether it was necessary that a tax of this kind should
be imposed on the country. He did think it would have been a
fair course towards that House and the country, if the Right Hon.
Baronet had stated his propositions, and given time to the House
and the country till after Easter, to consider what those proPosi.
tions were. Ile could only say that he desired to offer no factious