The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-18 00:00:00

.
rather have pi ovolicd laughter. He was 13 y Wear from his
lion. Friend that he had conside
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glikeeitaille to
1, -.
taw
the distress which prevailed in ma .
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The lion. Member for Somersetshi
...
truly, that he (Sir Robert Peel) h _ ekA..L._
tresses mentioned by members of • ifEsa,S:t .fii' - 7
which waited upon him.—(Laug 1): esV*Ute - : "axs. •
touched with the statement made b mesch,"Fsfr&is' - is ..s.
tion. His Hon. Friend (Mr. Palmer itl-heediel-not - ofi
rr
ea
any sympathy with the sufferings of ilnlititiett.:Ofht,
on a previous evening, he had stated most explicitly his belief
that in some parts of the country severe agricultural distress
prevailed. But be thought this distress was in a great degree
local, and in a great degree attributable to the influence of the
seasons. In some parts of England, during the early parts of
last summer, the drought was very great, and the hay end
turnip crops had suffered to a very great extent, but yet to
could not say that this distress was universal, for in the ncsctli
of England, in Scotland, and in Ireland, the harvest was rather
abundant. He wished it was in his power to provide any
effectual remedy for the distress which prevailed; bat the
House must know it was very difficult to provide : a
remedy for local depression, particularly when . tijat
depression was the result of einfavoirable seasons.
He had heard it stated that he had no sympathy with the
sufferings of the agricultural classes. Now, he begged to re-
mind his Hon. and Learned Friend that in his address to that
House at the opening of the cession, he did express his belief
that very serious distress did prevail amongst the agricultural
classes.--( Hear, hear.) But that distress last year was pair-
tie!, and principally owing to a great drought. • The hay har-
vest in some districts had been a failure, but that viSas
confined to certain districts. It had not been felt
in Scotland or in Ireland. Front the former coun-
try there had been no complaints of the harvest ;
and in the latter the crops had been very abundant. Butiif
the crops had failed in those countries, lie doubted if he mild
be called on to provide a remedy against such an occurreneess-.
(Hear, hear.) He sincerely wished he could suggest some
mode of relief for local distresses in agricultural districtaa;—
( Hear, hear.) But it would be very difficult, if not impossible
to do so. One suggestion had been offered to him as a remedy
—namely, that the malt-tax should be repealed. Now he did
believe there were certain taxes that did press .heavily upon
certain agricultural localities; but with regard to the
malt-tax, he would say, he did not think it was
such a one as that the repeal of it would afford
the relief suggested.—(Hear, hear.) He (Sir R. Peed)
was opposed to the repeal of this tax in the year 1835 for the
same reason, namely, that such a step would not give general
relief to the agricultural classes.—(Hear.) It would perhaps,
have given relief to one class of persons, namely, the brewers
—(Laughter)—but general relict it certainly would not give.
—( Hear, hear.) Nothing could he more able than the manner
in which his Hon. and Learned Friend had made his state-
ment ; but he (Sir It, Peel) did not think his Hon. Friend
had succeeded in showing that the malt-tax was one which born
with peculiar pressure upon the agricultural districts.—( Hear.)
Neither could his Hon. Friend say that the income-tax pressed
heavily upon the agriculturists, for this reason, that it was not
paid by any one engaged in agriculture who had a less income
than 300/. a-year.--( Hear, hear. ) But again lie would say
that he admitted that local taxes did press heavily upon certain
portions of the community ; but it would be very difficult, if not
impossible, for the Government to interfere with it.—( Hear; )
Ho would say that he did think her Majesty's Government had
acted judiciously in defraying the expenses of criminal pro-
secutions in some instances out of the Consolidated
Fund; but it would be very imprudent if they inter-
fered with those taxes which were levied for the purpose of
making and repairing roads and bridges.—( Hear, hear.) For
it was very important that such taxes should be under the
control and management of the people of those localities who
had to pay thetas.—(Hear.) This, however, he would say,
that it was his firm- conviction, that if that House supported
the measures he had proposed, the ultimate relief that would
result to the community at large would be found to be more
really beneficial than if he had repealed all local taxes,
and had paid them out of the Consolidated Fund.
—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) If his Hon. Friend was of
opinion that it would be expedient to repeal the malt-tax, he
certainly must be embued witfi a sympathy for a peculiar
class.—( Laughter.) But the repeal altogether of the duty on
glass and on raw cotton would be found, eventually, to be
most beneficial to the agricultural classes.—( Hear.) Indeed
he could not conceive a class who would be more benefited
by those two measures than the agricultural labourers. When
the heavy duty should be removed from that material spade of
cotton-wool, which was generally worn by the labouring agri-
culturists, they would then be enabled to purchase their clothes
at a low rate, and surely that would be a boon. Then
with respect to glass, surely when the duty upon an article so
necessary to the comfort of all classes should be reduced from
Is. to 3d. or 4d., was it not clear that the landlord, the tenant,
the peasant, and the labourer would derive benefit from it ?
(Hear, hear.) With respect to the proposed reduction in the
auction duties, he begged that the House would not take a
lusty view of that, until they hid the proposition fully before
them.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord opposite had
taunted him, in respect to this tax, with repealing a
tax • which nobody had objected to. But he hoped the
Noble Lord would read the opinions of Sir Henry Parnell
and the Chairman of the Stamps and Taxes Department, upon
this subject. He (Sir 11. Peel) would move this evening for
certain returns in reference to the fees paid at certain auction
sales, and then the Noble Lord would see if it would not be a
material benefit to that branch of commerce to have it proceed
in future unclogged by any tax.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble
Lord quarrelled with him (Sir it. Peel), because the army and
navy estimates were so high, but he hoped to be able to satisfy
the house sod the Noble Lord that those esti-
mates were not larger than the present necessities
of those branches of the public service demanded.—( Hear.)
However, upon this subject he would not dwell, as it would be
very ungratefal in him to quarrel with one whose support he
understood he was to have in his proposal for a renewal of the
income-tax for a further limit; and, therefore, he would sky
no more uson that subject.—(Laughter,) When the Noble
Lord had first said he should oppose that measure, he (Sir R.
Peel) should confess he was most agreeably surprised at bear-
ing the Noble Lord say, at a subsequent period, that he would
vote for the continuance of it— (Laughter)—and he begged to
assure the Noble Lord that, great as was his surprise at
hearing this announcement, it was not greater than the plea-
sure he now felt at having the honourof his Lordship's support
—(Renewed laughter)—and let him add the hope that nothing
he had said that evening would have the effect of shaking the
Noble Lord's resolution.—(Continued laughter.) Perhaps,
after all, if the Noble Lord and his colleagues were sitting upon
those benches—(Pointing behind him amid much laughter)—
his Lordship would find that, no matter from what source de-
rived, the addition of the 5,200,003/. of the income-tax a very
comfortable thing—( Loud laughter)—and would gravely
declare that that tax was for the public benefit, and ought
to be continued for a further limit.—(Loud laughter.)
Certainly they might have a discussion in that Committee,
when the Hon. Member for Kendal brought forward his mo-
tion—(Laughter)—when the Hon. Member for Bath brought
forward his motion—(Laughter)—or when his Hon. Friend
the Member for Somerset brought forward his motion.—( Con-
tinued laughter.) He certainly thought that the House had
seen enough from .the preliminary debate to come to a right
conclusion upon the subject. Then, wiih respect to funded
property, it was said that it was a great injustice to tax it, as
the country had entered into an engagement with regard to it
that it should not be taxed ; and when Lord Sidmouth attempted
to introduce such a measure in 1803, Mr. Pitt got up and said
that it would be a viola' ion of the public faith to allow fluids raised
on a distinct engagement that they should be free from all
claims, to be subject in the same manner-as other property to
the burdens of the country. He found it necessary, theretore,
to draw a distinction between permanent and temporary in-
censes and the property entitled to claim exemption. But
the opening up of that subject would induce a discussion
which ha was anxious then to avoid. But he could nut resist
saying that in the mode of testing the exemption in such a ease,
the circumstances atterrling the scrutiny would be just as
stringent and es inquisitorial as any that had taken place under
the operation of schedule D. They would have to go into
examinations for the purpose of determining the nature of
the property ma which the duties were to be levied, and as
he had already said, a new inquisitorial tribunal would be
established, much more onerous taan that which had linen
complained of ; and he would just ask the House if, from the
very nature of the tax, it could be otherwise ? He very much
doubted; in the case of such taxes as glass and cotton, whether
the sum remitted could be said to be abstracted from the per-
manent interest of the country, because the remission of such
taxes gave an impulse to the creative powers of their trades
and manufactures, In respect to wines and articles of luxury,
they might escape that tax by not consuming the articles ; but
in respect to the articles reduced—let them say cotton and
glaq—theY were articles of manufacture of which they were
a component part, and by the increase of labour in which, the
workman would be enabled to buy absolutely necessary articles,
as wearing apparel, cheaper than before, thus amply compen-
sating for the general pressure of the income-tax on the com-
munity. What was it that he would propose afterwards? Why,
that a person having 5,0001. a year should contribute
about 14t/. towards the maintenance of the credit
of the country, and he would ask them that day, not merely
to increase the expenditure, but to make an experiment, and
if that should not succeed—if the country should not derive any
immediate benefit from it, they might afterwards reconsider
their present determination. He (Sir R. Peel) was asked by
the Bight Hon. Gentleman the Member for Devonport (Sir
G. Grey), if he could give any assurance that the income-tax
would expire in three years? He answered to that, as he did
on the other night, that he calculated that the taxes removed
would increase the consumption of other articles; but he was
free to sty then, :in experiments of that kind, three
years was rather a limited period—rather a short
experiment, and he would own that he would rather himself
have extended it to five years. He had good ground for enter-
taining a rational expectation that at the end of three _years he
Right Hon. Gentleman that his ground was this.e
would be at liberty to discontinue the income-tax. He told th
popu-
lation of the country was greatly on the increase,
co
sequent consumption of articles paying duty would
abned
gthereeaenr.-
They had
I, and by the application
mo
na
snudmf
po
..r
a vast amount of surplus
capita
f industry their manufac-
The population of the country was on the increase.
of that capital to various branches
labour, and the demand for labour would
find that the trade of last
increaseincreadthedec
tureswould increase; they should haovean.
tion of the country. They would
the declared value with 1843. In 1843
ii 8
f
year had greatly advanced, if they looked at the declared value
o f
wasthseo exports,6so,ooo
I.w,abse
being
anl2i,nocoroe/a.
increase
over n 4the4
declared value of 1843 of 5,838,000/. in the course of the year.
the declared value
1844 as compared the declared value of
With a surplus capital applied to the internal improvement
of the country, he thought it
a rational prospect
that at the end of the three sears there would
be such an increase of revenue that the House might
be safely asked not to continue the income-tax for a
longer period. On the Ist of April, 1848, the income-tax
would expire, but the duration of the income-tax, subject to
the half-year's tax of 1845, would extend overfour years. He
could not foresee what events might occur to render the sur-
plus which might remain in 1849 necessaay. The Hoti:e
might be of opinion that he should not be held to an engage-
merit, that at the end of the specified time tha'tax should ne-
cessarily cease. He would only say that he had:reason to
think there would then be a fair opportunity to consider
whether or not it would be for the public advantage that the
tax should then cease, or that it should be continued for the
purpose of affording a revenue. He certainly made the
experiment with confidence, and whatever happened, he was
sere the House would be determined to maintain the
public credit. The Right Honourable Gentleman the
Member fur Halifax thought that it was possible the
sugar duties would not answer the expectations formed
of them. They might not recover se rapidly as
might be wished ; but he would remember that for the two
years to come. Then there was an additional revenue of
600,003/. for which lie did not take credit. Suppose a falling
off in the sugar duties in the course of next sear ; the rest of
that sum would, of course, be available to set off againstany
diminution in the sugar duties. These were grounds which
it was impossible to expose to any accurate calculation.
wh
quite admitted, with the Noble Lord, that his experiment
might be a'tendcd with some losso,
xf, f
money-
But as to the
political economy
Luwhich considered that
of
the
Noble
necessarily to be condemned
because they occasioned a loss reductions of the tariff were
of
revenue,
he must say, when
the Noble Lord made his declaration of it, that, on such a
:0
extraordinary declaration coming
subject' it was -iatitlmed- as the Noble Lord was, to.the credit
of being a financier..
froid 'person; e
If they had found concurrently with