The Sun.
London, England, 1829-03-31 00:00:00

country.—(Cheers.)—The Right Zion. Gentleman reed
another short passage describing the people as every
where burying their animositiel, and, where old feuds
and quarrels existed, 'making them up and living
peace. And the communication, he repeated, came
from the highest authority in that country. This
information (he continued) is confirmed from all quar-
ters. All the violent parties in Ireland on both sides,
seeing the parties io the Legislature lay aside their differ-
ences, had seconded its efforts in a manner that did-them
the highest honour. This is before the Bill has passed,
and already violent men of both sides recal their violent
opinions, and long to bury the animosities that were last
year excited. "If the parties in the Legislature," they
say, " have laid aside the difference of opinion that have
separated them for many years, let us profit by their wis-
dom, and anticipate by our conduct the effects of a mea.
sure, which is to give peace and tranquillity to our coun-
try." But, should the Bill be rejected, it would not only
destroy the temporary effect of conciliation, but also, by
raising the disappointed expectations of the Roman Catho-
lics, and by elevating the lower classes in Ireland to the
height of insult, tend to widen the breach already exist-
ing between the parties of that country. To that consi-
deration alone every man should give its due weight, what-
ever his opinions may be as to the abstract policy of this
measure. Even if he thinks it decidedly wrong, it may,
nevertheless, be perfectly consistent with that opinion,
looking to the consequences that will ensue from failure, to
argue that the measure, having been brought forward, and
it being impossib:e ever again to replace matters in their
original position, it would be better to pass the Bill than
to risk the effects of its defeat. Ido not merely wish to
seize the advantages the measure would give us; but, as
we now stand, to avoid the perils its loss would entail upon
us. On these grounds I earnestly entreat the House to
pause before it contemplates the rejection of the measure.
I am willing to submit to any consequences personal to
myself. I will consent to be condemned for the precipita-
tion with which we have brought it forward. If, in-
deed, he (Sir C. Wetherell) thinks that the effects of its
failure will only be the same as if it had never been pro-
posed, he may with perfect consistency oppose it, even if
he had before given his support to the Bill. Ido trust
that the time is fast approaching when we shall take leave
of these discussions for ever.—(Cheers.)---We shall then
be enabled, as it was lately remarked by an Hon. Member,
instead of having our time occupied by petitions for and
against this question, and by the debates growing out of
it, to apply the whole of our attention to the permanent
interests of the country. If we were able to disencumber
ourselves of the Roman Catholic Question, and devote
thirty or forty days in each Session, which are now claimed
for its exclusive consideration, even in this respect, a great
benefit will be conferred on the whole kingdom. I re-
joice, therefore, that these discussions are about to leave
us for ever. Rut in saying so I must claim for myself,
notwithstanding all the imputations that have been east
upon me—l will not only claim the privilege, but
assert it as the bounden duty of a man who contracts
that obligation which binds the responsible servant of the
King, that he shall give his advice regarding public affairs
without reference to any speeches he may have delivered in
this House or elsewhere; and however dreadful it is to be
apparently insensible to the calls of gratitude, however
painful it may be even to dissolve those party connections
which have so long subsisted, and which we are threatened
with, as one consequence of bringing forward this mea-
sure, still I do say that those are not considerations which
should weigh against the responsibility incurred by hold-
ing the office of adviser to the Crown.—(Cheers.)—If
we are compelled to follow a certain course of action, and
if a man differs entirely from other individuals with whom
lie is co-operating, and also from his own party, yet he is
bound to advise and act for the best, according to the exi-
gency of the times. My Hon. Friend, the Member for
Liverpool, has told !me that I shall find for the future the
lukewarm friendship of a great proportion of those whose
good opinions I have hitherto had the happiness to enjoy.
I know my Hon. Friend too well to believe that he is in-
fluenced by any private or personal considerations; and I
am perfectly satisfied that he and they who take a similar
course 410 se, not for the purpose of pleasing anybody, but
with reference to the public welfare. But I cannot pur-
chase his support or good-will for myself by any promise
that I will, at all times, and under all circumstances, in
my public situation as a Minister of the Crown, bind
myself to act for ever upon any opinions I may form; or
that I will not reserve to myself the right to act as in the
exigencies of the moment I may be called upon to
(Loud cheers.)—The Hon. Member for Dover tells me
that lie has pinned me to one thing, and screwed me to
another, and that under no circumstances will he allow
me to escape from them. But I tell my lion. Friend, iu
reply, borrowing the metaphor of the Gallant Admiral
who now occupies his place in the House, that I shall
fidlow the example of the pilot who does not always steer
the same course to guard the ship from danger, but a dif-
ferent course, under different circumstances, as they arise,
in order to save the ship from the very dangers which the
captain and crew have most to dread. This has been the
opinion at all times of the men who have been called to
the practical administration of public affairs. My diffi-
culties are the same as those of other men under other
circumstances. I may express them much more elo-
quently than 'in any language I can utter in the words of
an eminent orator of antiquity :
" Ham didici, hate vidi, htec scripta legi, non semper
easdem sententias ab iisdem ternporibus exigi, sed quoscum-
que reipubliew status, inclinatio temporum, ratio concor
dice postularent dici debere."

on these subjects, I will not occupy the time of the House
.by umaecess,rily dwelling at length on them.—(" Ques-
tion.")—But I must say that I doubt whether any man
strongly attached to the cause of Protestant Ascendancy,
can point out any more unfortunate way in which, if his
oath, as a Privy Councillor, had compelled him to advise
the King that the evils of a divided Cabinet called for this
remedy, he could have done so, than when it led him to
fix on the project of a united Cabinet in favour of the
Roman Catholic claims, on that memorable day when
a certain correspondence appeared, which said " there
is no mistake ; there can be no mistake; there shall
be no mistake." If he felt that the union of the
Cabinet, on this question, was so vital in its nature
that its omission would justify the total abandonment
of the Protestant Ascendancy, had he not then an
opportunity of giving effect to his opinions, by declaring
that he would leave the management of public places to
those who were of opinion that the Government should be
conducted on the principle of division? The next ques-
tion is, whether, if the evils of danger are so great, ought
it not to have been within the calculation of the framers
of the present measure that there may come times in the
future, which, instead of such persons as my Right Hon.
and Gallant Friend, the Secretary for the Colonies, there
may be such Ministers as Lord Treasurer Clifford and
Lord Chancellor Ashley?. Under the pres?t Bill, may
not the evils of a Cabinet so composed be greater than the
evils of division among men hound together by common
interests anal by common oaths? The next point is the
evil that arose from the difference between the two Houses
of Parliament. In the first place, I must say, it was
known for many years that there was a strong opinion on
this subject entertained by one branch of the Legislature;
and, I believe, if it were allowable to refer to the opinion
of another branch, I might say, that it was not less de-
cisive. In fact, the opinion of the one branch was marked
by voting against the Roman Catholic Question for sixteen
years uniformly, and with large majorities ; and the opi-
nion of the other branch was known by other means, to
which I need not more particularly refer. Why, then, I
ask, should the opinion of both these branches yield to the
third ; that of the two hereditary branches giving way to
the opinion of the representatives of the people ? The
next point is one relative to the evils that have resulted
from the rejection of certain measures by the House of
Commons, which have now been brought fin ward again
under under such authoritative circumstances as render it
probable they may be carried, though I do not abandon
the hope that they will be rejected. Is not this a con-
verting of the House of Lords into a • mere chamber for
registering the decrees of this House ? Suppose that
some Bill should pass this House for the alteration of the
Tithe system, and that this Bill should have the weight of
Government to support it, is it any thing to be wondered
at, if it should be forced through Parliament, however in-
consistent with the Protestant interest ? The third point
of the Right Hon. Gentleman's defence rests on the fact,
that he was hirstself left in a minority on the Catholic
question. I admit that he was so left, but I beg leave to
state, that the evil was far less than that which he adopted
as a remedy four years afterwards. The Right Hon.
-Gentleman was then supported by Mr. Canning and Lord
Plunkett; Lord Goderich also sat with him, and the Hon.
Members for Liverpool (Mr. Huskisson) and Merioneth-
shire (Mr. Wm Wynn.) This circumstance makes the
case very different, so far as he is concerned. But he
says he was not properly supported. He had at that time
the assistance of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and
some of his other colleagues. He asks the Hon. Member
for Kent, why he did not speak against the Roman Ca-
tholic Claims in this House instead of going to Penentleh
Heath ? I hope I may be allowed to say, with my Hon.
Friend, and with the same tone and temper, that he
did his duty according to his conscientious view of it.
The Honourable Baronet then went on to ask 'what his
Majesty's•.GOvernment had done to encourage young men
to oppose this question ? Mr. Pitt had saved himself by
that means, and he might point out in the House several
distinguished Members who had been so raised to eminence
—he would mention the Right Hon. Gent. (Mr. Charles
Grant), the Member for Inverness; the Hon. and Learned
Gent, the Solicitor-General for Ireland, and the Hon. and
Learned Gent. (Mr. North) the Member for Milborne
Port. Why did not the Right Hon. Gent. in like manner
gather round hitn those who were the depositories of Mr.
Pitt's principles? When a Minister complained of not
being supported, he (Sir R. Inglis) was entitled to ask
whom he had invited to support him, and by whom lie had
surrounded himself? Lastly, he came to the state of Ire-
land, as a justification for the course followed by his Ma-
jesty's Ministers. But he maintained that the state of that
country, bad as it had been, and as it was, was not worse
than it had been, not only within our own memory, but in
the records of history.. -(Cries of Order and Question. )--He
referred to two authorities on this subject, to which he
was sure the House would bow—one was the author
quoted by his Hon. and Learned Friend—Sir. John Davis,
and the other was Spencer. The latter stated that "most
of the freeholders there who were Irishmen, made no
scruple of passing -as Jurors against the Queen, though
for that purpose they were obliged to restrain their
oaths, so that it amounted to nothing what the verdict
might be." Spencer's work was one of undoubted autho-
rity, and it was confirmed by that of Sir John
(" Question.")—He denied, therefore, that the removal
of the grievances arising from the disabilities of the Roman
Catholics, could have any tendency to promote the tran-
quillity of Ireland, whose evils were co-existent with all
we knew of that country.—(Cries of question !)—lf,
indeed, these concessions had been made in the time of Mr.
Canning, benefit might have resulted from them ; for that
Right Hon. Gent. would have given them open hearted
and open handed. They would, in that case, have been
attended with advantageous results; because Mr. Canning
would have given them as a measure of justice, but now
the Roman Catholic claims were conceded on the principle
on which a purse wasgiven to a footpad. The Right Hon.
Gent. had pretty plainly intimated that he would give
nothing, but that he was afraid of being knocked down, if
he kept it back any longer. He gave his purse to keep his
watch. Now be (Sir Robert Inglis) contended, that this
surrender to the Roman Catholics was a direct premium to
intimidation and agitation. It was clear that the Roman
Catholics could never have brought their question to its
present state of prosperity but by agitation. Had they not
publicly announced, that by agitation they had succeeded
in carrying the question ? They would never be satin
fied—

The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst very low
and general cheering; which continued for some time.
Sir R. INGLIS rose to move. an Adjournment of the
Debate ; but was met with cries of" Go on," and " Ques-
tion," which were vehemently reiterated until he pro-
ceeded with his speech. The Right Hon Gent. had
given the House a gratuitous explanation of a purely per-
sonal nature ; but though he was willing to give every
degree of credit to it as an argumentum ad hominem, yet,
however it might effect the public' character of the indi-
vidual, it did not alter the quality of the measure itself in
the slightest degree. The greater part of the Right Hon.
Gent's. Speech only went to prove that the measure ought
to have been brought forward before. His objection went
far deeper, and was more general. He could not have
agreed to this Bilt, at whatever time and under whatever
circumstances it had been brought forward ; and whether
by the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Westminster, or by
the Right Hon. Gent, the Secretary of State, by Whig, "On Moscow's towers till Gothic standards Ay,
Radical, or Tory ; whether in 1825, in 1827, or in 1829, And all be theirs beneath the Polar sky."
he would have been equally opposed to it. His objection The Right Hon. Gentleman had admitted that there wow
was, that the character of the church of Rome, was un- be a Roman Catholic question still behind ; but that was
changed and unchangeable. If he was told, as he had not all ; for there would be a Protestant question also.
been that evening by an Hon. Gent., that the character. of Did the House suppose that the immense majority of the
the Church of Rome, and of the Pope, and the Papal people of England would remain content next Session ?
power itself were mere nonentities, and that the dread of The Right Hon. Gentleman would find them again at the
them was an alarm suitably only to other times, he would re- bar with their petitions. With respect to the Protestant
m'nd them of what had taken place when the Pope was in the population of the kingdom, he had no hesitation in saying
hands of Bonaparte, and was his prisoner in his own car- that nine-tenths of it were against this Bill—(cries of
riage. Perhaps he should be asked for proofs of the pre- " No, no," and " Question")—and for himself, he must
sent character of the church of Rome, and he would at say, that he had detected errors sufficiently dangerous in
once refer to Louth, or Monaghan, or Clare. If asked the Church of. Rome to justify him as a Member of Par-
where he would seek for the proofs of Roman Catholic !Lament in refusing the admission of Catholics into office.
disaffection, he would say be found it in the organization —(" Question, question.")
that existed throughout the whole Catholic population of The wish of the majority of the House appeared to be
Ireland, by which they were subjected to orders to march in favour of an immediate division, but there was a cry
here and there, and to a rigorous discipline, under which also for Mr. Sadler.
they abstained even from drinking spirituous liquors. He Mr. SADLER presented himself to the House, and
found it in the fact that the leader of this organization, en suggested the propriety of an adjournment.—(Vehement
the very day of his triumph, had knelt down in the streets cries of " No, no," "do on, go on.")—He was sure that
before a Roman Catholic Bishop and worshipped him.— if he went on he should run the risk of fatiguing many
When he looked at the present stage of the Bill, he could Hon. Gentlemen.—(Cries of " No, no," " Hear, hear." not help asking himself, who, 29 years. ago, would have —The Right Hon. Secretary 'of State had observed, tha,
thought to see a Right Hon. Friend of his become one of it would be better, considering the present stage of the
those who required this measure as a panacea for the evils Bill, to .rest the debate on the principle of the measure :
of the State? There were others who did not look so far, he (Mr. Sadler) wished so too, and was therefore sorry
and who held the distinction that the measure was not So that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not observed his own
much a remedy for the present evils of Ireland, as a pre- rule.—(A laugh.)--He was still disposed to stand on the
partitive for remedies that were hereafter to be applied.— ground which he had taken the last time that lie had ad-
His Hon. Friend, the Member for Armagh, was one of dressed the House. It still appeared to him that the pas-
those, of whom he was entitled to say, that he had gal- sing of this Bill must necessarily touch. on the title of the
tautly, four years ago, under similar circumstances, House of Brunswick to the throne of these realms--(hear,
changed not only his conduct in regard to this question, hear, and a laugh)—he still thought that it would bring
but his opinions also. He had said, in effect, " I have about a most fearful inroad .into the most sacred institu-
been deceived in the character of the Church of Rome, tions of the country, and the ultimate suppression of the
for what I thought dangerous I find is now innoxious._ whole of them—(hear, hear)L--be. still thought that the
Let us, therefore, give the Roman Catholic what he asks." measure would lead to the ultimate destruction o,f Chris-
But he, continued the Honourable Baronet, is not the tianity itself—( hear, and signs of discontent).-Lhe still be-
person who gains the triumph, but he who tells us that lieVed that instead of settiiog the question, as it was vainly
he holds his opinions, and changes his coat only; he urged would he the case, it would unsettle every thing that
who is consistent in nothing bet his changes, and who had been so long and so happily established : the quarrel,
fra
tells tis that as lie was always of opinion that the instead of being appeased, had but just commenced, arid the
eti
Roman Catholic Church was hostile to Protestantism way in which they had COMM( need it, was by giving greater
every where, in Ireland and England, .and throughout power than ever to their opponents. He hap no wish' to
Europe, so he now considers it his duty to regard Popery press himself unnecessarily on she time.of the House; but
ae hostile to every principle of the Constitution, and yet he owed it te himself to say,' that he had not uttered the
ad-vises us to
than
wh t evleery thing to the Roman Catholics words which had been imputed to him, nor had he by im-
now, becauseotreep of the Treasury, with the pliCation made such a recommendation as had been ascribed
Right Hon. Gentleman at their head, assurci us that the to him. What he had said WilS, that it appeared to him!
evils. of Ireland are so great, that the • danger is less in that the disturbances in Irelarutwere of a similar, character
granting than in resisting concessions. This is the state to those which had agitated the manufacturing distTieta of
of things from whihaah c
founded the Bill is to relieve us. The Right this country, although, in the one instance, the outcry had
Hon. Gentleman the defence of his Majesty's been for Parliamentary Reform, while in the other, the pre-
Governmentfirstly, on the divided slimed panacea was Catholic Emancipation. But bow dif-
the differences between ferently had these cases been treated. In one instance they
a egrounds;
o n
the two
infoouses of Parliament ; thirdly, on his being left had spurned the complainants, and even spilt .their blood in
ste of
the Cabinet
n severalet ;
secondly,
himself minority ; but, above all, on the state of Ire- the act of dispersing them, while they met the other ease
land._(cei„ of Question.")—ln entering on the first by sun endering:all that was asked.—(Hear.)—But though
of these grounds, as I have on former occasions touched he had stated thus much, he had not expressed any opi.

nion respecting the policy of the question in either ease: i power and force of popular opinion, and how effectual it
least of all had he uttered any thing capable of being I was in resisting the measures then in contemplation; and
interpreted into
_a recommendation of civil war. What ' from that example they might now learn not rashly to op-
he had recommended was that Government should act pose the voice of the people. He had now done—his op-
as a sort of hostage for the industry of Ireland—that it position might be of no avail—entreaties and prayers, he
should support, by every means in its power, the nee feared, could not now stop the accomplishment of this
ttiral advantages of that country—that it should shew measure; but he felt that he had done his duty, and if
itself to be the :iota' al protector of es people. These any humble effort or sacrifice of his could prevent its con-
were the means and the conduct that would dignify any summation, he was ready to make that sacrifice, even
Minister that would undertake to carry them into effect.— though it were of his life itself.—( Loud cries of hear. )
(Hear, hear. )—This was the only civil war that he had Mr. V. FITZGERALD rose amidst loud cries of
recommended ; but he had not recommended any war . Question from one part of the House, re-echoed by lond
against Protestant Ascendancy—he had not recommended ;cheers from the other; he commenced by assuring the
any war against the redundancy of population in a country House that at that advanced bout. (half-past two) he would
pre-eminently fertile itself, and with proper management nut trespass long upon their attention, but there were one
capable of supporting that population. What he had or two remarks in the speech of the Hon. Member to which
urged was a war against oppression and cruelty.—( Hear, he nets anxious to call the notice of the House. In truth,
hear.)—He had contended before, and he would again there was not much of argument in the speech of the Hon.
contend, that a modified system of poor laws would de- Member—(hear, hear)—and in no part of it did the Hon,
scend like an angel of mercy on Ireland.—(Hear, bear, Member discuss the principle and the details of the present
and a laugh.)—The emancipation that he sought for was Bill.—(Hear, hear.)—The Hon. Member had, fora second
not a sentimental emancipation—an emancipation for the time, entertained the House with his lucubrations on the
saloon and the drawing-room—(Hear, hear)--by which state of Ireland, and with the repetition of the specifics
the few who ranked high were to gain their object at the which he would recommend for healing the wounds of
expence of the pOor.—(Hear, hear.)—Again, it had been that country. The Hon. Member, not content with re-
said that he had spoken inaccurately of the Constitution ; peating himself, had repeated also h passage from the speech
but it appeared to him that those who had accused him of of the Hon. Member for Dublin (Mr. Moore); and al-
that, had mistaken the Constitution of which he had been though he promised to be very succinct, yet he had read
speaking : the Constitution to which he had alluded was at equal length, the quotation from Lord Chatham, which
not that which had begun in 1828, and which appeared that Hon. Member had read with not less effect in an
now, in 1829, to be approaching to its final consumma- earlier part of the discussion of the evening.—(Laughter,
tion. No ! he had alluded to the Constitution which had and cries of hear, hear.)—The Hon. Member, in con-
been formed in the first of King William the Third of sistency with his promise of succinctness, might have spared
glorious memory—(A loud laugh)—And which had at the passage from Lord Chatham's speeches. In the speech
least continued down to the reign of King George the of the Ron. Member there were some mis-statements of
Third, also of glorious memory.—(A suppressed laugh.) history, and some misrepresentations of history, which it
It had been contended by the supporters of 'the present was important to correct; the Hon. Member had even
measures, that one of their principal reasons for giving gone so far as to attribute all the crimes in the history of
that support arose from the state of Ireland, and from this country, as well as of other countries, to the Catholic.
their belief that this measure was the proper means for its religion, and he had cited the period of the great rebellion
palliation. But if the evening had not been so tar ad- in this country that terminated in the Revolution, and the
vanced, he would have proved—for he pledged himself Revolution in France, as illustrations in support of his po-
that he was able to prove that those circumstances of dis- sition ; but be could safely assure the Hon. Member, that
turbance had existed since the Revolution, and even before these illustrations, and his mode of applying them, were
the Revolution.—(hear, hear)—besides which, he believed neither applicable to the House nor to the Bill now under
that all this alarm had arisen front the statements contained its discussion. He would maintain, in opposition to the
in accounts for the mist part anonymous and little worthy Hon. Member, that the principle of the Constitution was
of credit. He could, however, tell the House that if the not a principle of exclusion ; and, notwithstanding the
Bill passed into a law, there were thousands and tens of aversion he manifested to expediency, he (Mr. Fitzgerald)
thousands of respectable individuals in Ireland who would would assert that expediency, connected and consistent
not longer be able to gather their crops, or even to breathe with morals, was a sound principle of legislation. Expe-
the air of their country with safety.—(Hear, bear.)-4le diency disconnected from morals was a criminal ground to
had a document in his hand which was too long to read, act upon; but when supported and sanctioned, as it was
but he, however, might state its substance, verified as it in this instance, by morals, it was the wise course, as well
was by a number of respectable signatures which were at- as the bounden duty of Government and of Parliament to
tached to it: in that document these individuals stated adopt it. And when the Hon. Member referred to his_
that their fears and apprehensions were such that they tory, and deprecated expediency, he would ask hint if his.
were preparing to quit the homes of their fathers, for tory did not inform him that expediency was the ground
they found that it was impossible far them to remain any upon which Catholics were excluded.—(Cheers?)—lt. was
longer there. He would not fatigue the House by read- upon expediency, and expediency alone, that the Romer,
ing the document to them—(hear) ;—but he begged par. Catholics were excluded ; and expediency now, under
ticularly to impress the contents of it on them. And, different and altered circumstances, calls for their
after all, what was the apology made for the intro- admission to anise
,civil franchises, from which, in
duction of this measure? Why it was one that vi• former times, and nnder far different eircumstanees,
tiated it altogether.—(Hear, hear. )__The apology was they had been shut out. —(Cheers.)—He denied that it
neither more nor less than what appeared to be the con- was any essential part of the Constitution of this country
stant alpha and omega of the modern school—(a laugh)— that all who lived in the enjoyment of its advantages
the policy of expediency.—(Hear, hear.) But such ex-
should be members of the same communion. And when
pediency as this he scorned, and he had hoped never to have the Hon. Gentleman invoked the House in the name tie
heard it urged in quarters in which it now was unfor- their fathers, who had died for the cause of their religion
tunately too prevalent. It was an expediency that yin- and their God, he must protest against the arrogant as_
fated the science of morals, and destroyed the dearest prin- sumption by which some Hon. Gentlemen appeared to
ciples of their life. -It was an expediency that distorted take to themselves an exclusive merit for being the supe
everything from its fair and just proportions; and with porters of the Church and the friends of religion. He
the permission of the House he would endeavour to place would tell those Hon. Gentlemen, that he and those who
this doctrine on the solid basis of demonstration._(Year, set beside him were as zealously, as deeply, as fervently,
and question.) What was, for instance, the fate of Louis and as honestly, attached to the Protestant Church, as
XVI., when that benevolent Monarch found himself sur- the Hon. Member for Newark (Mr. Sadler); and he
rounded by a knot of expediency-mongers,—(a laugh)-- would further protest before God, that one of the chief
and was counselled to yield his privileges, one after ano- reasons which induced him to support this measure, was
ther, till there were none left, and even the light of Chris- that he believed there would be greater danger to the Esta-
tianity was for a time extinguished ? The last victim on blished Church in the present state of the Catholic Quesiou
in Ireland, than there would be after the proposed
mea-
sure of concession had been adopted. It was because he
nareb himself. But perhaps it would be said by those
the altar of expediency in this case was the life of the Mo-
t
who admired the revolution that had taken place in that thought that it would contribute to the preservation of
country, that this case was not in point : he need not those
sacred institutions that he supported the present
insist upon it, for he would refer them still more strongly to Bill, because he hoped and trusted it would serve
the page of history in our own country. He need not say to unite both Catholics and Protestants, and espe-
that he referred to that period of our history when every- cially the Protestants among themselves in support of
the real interests of the Church. The tolerant spirit
thing was in danger, and when the Church and Constitu-
of the Protestant religion was inconsistent with ex-
veryelusion ; and of him who would exclude another
tion tHheomusseelsh-easdum.eraerkatedstoakuet.altnwobasleatvtichtaitnapeforirodatiehaptotihicayt
of expediency—a victim who was, perhaps, not free from from. the Constitution because lid was not a member of
his faults, but who was as loyal to his King and to his the same communion with himself, at a time when his
country as any patriot that ever breathed. He need hardly admission into it. was free from danger, he would say, as
hi,
say that he referred to the great Earl of Strafford.—(A has been said in a public assembly, upon this question,
laugh and hear. )—Expediency had operated in that House Ireland,: "His religion is not my religion, and his God is
to send that ill-fated nobleman to his trial; expediency not my God." The Hon. Member also doubted the power of
had operated in the House that tried him to find him this House to pass the measure. • Did the Hon. Member
guilty; and expediency had persuaded the Monarch that know that this House had passed the Septennial Act ; and
loved him to sign his death warrant, under the false lure that the Union of Scotland and of Ireland, by virtue of
that that alone was wanting to restore all the former tran-
which Union the Hon. Member was alone capacitated to
quillity of the kingdom, and that his being consigned to
be a legislator for the people of Ireland ; all these Acts had
the grave would be the means of establishing a happy and pulped
without such an appeal to the people taking place
lasting peace. But what really was the result of this as the Hon. Gent. recommended by the dissolution of Pap-
event? The Right lime Gent, proceeded to refer to the
event? What were the couisequenecs that followed all
this good advice? That very expediency, which had mar- reign of William the Third, the tolerant spirit of whose
shelled Strafford to the scaffold, murdered the King within
mind and chanactee be eulogized, and contended that toler-
ation was the characteristic of that great man ; after
which he eaanllelEdntgbleisialtpteanrtliioanmeolfx:he Honourable Membet
r Newark, who placed sure reliance on
and
dththaet et•ohiecevooifeethoef
people to the fact, that the laws against Catholics were
in reference to expediency, but it was-one of right, an
a very short time afterwards, and, instead of the peace
that was so vainly promised, the whole empire was a scene
of anarchy and confusion.—(Hear, hear. ) He would con-
for
that this was a question that onght not to be considered
d he Passed by
would maintain that the Parliament of England had no those who were to suffer from them had not been consulted.
right to rob the people of England of their Protestant As to the various measures of improvement recommended
Constitution. After animadverting upon the laxity with by the Hooourable Member, lie believed that none of
which Hon. Members were disposed to treat the oaths which them could he accomplished until ;his Catholic Ques:
they had taken at that table on their entrance into Parlia- Con was adjusted. In considering the services and
ment, the Hon. Member proceeded to quote an authority the merits of those by whom the great question
not only equal to, but above that of any authority on the has been supported, and whose names would be re-
other side—namely, that of Locke—who laid it down membered as efteo as these discussions were thought of,
that the Legislature had no power to pass a measure of the the super-eminent services of his Right Honourable Friend,
character and importance of the Bill now before the and of the Noble Duke at the head of the Administration,
House, without a dissolution of Parliament, and without
would he cherished with the deepest gratitude. They had
the Representatives of the People being sent back to the braved every thing to accomplish this measure, and every
body of the people, to afford them an opportunity of pro_ thing that could be inflicted wag inflicted, to dissuade or
flouncing their judgment upon the pending question, by defeat them in its consummation ; but the joy and thank-
the choice which, on such occasion, they would make. fulness of the millions whom this measure would make
He would refer to another high authority—that of Lord happy, would, he trusted, he a consolation to them under Chatham—upon a change about to be introduced in the the difficulties which they had to encounter. (Loud cries
oath of certain officers in a single colony, where the ma, of hear, hear !) The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by
jority of the people were Catholics. That great mon said, eloquently enforcing how fatal it would lie to the hopes and
is That to repeal the Act of Elizabeth, imposing the oath happiness of the people of Ireland if this measure were rinT
of supremacy, and the substitution for it of an oath of al- rejected, but he hoped he might now
combine the consider it as toafrr.ietl.
'
legiance, would be to do that which Parliament had no (Cheers.) They were nave about to take j_e
more right to do than they had to repeal the Great Char- that House, and he parted with it its the Confidaevnet antticli4
ter, or the Bill of Rights."--(Hear, hear.)—He invoked pation that it woulid,
people of Ireland in social-
countries. (Cheers
the name of the great Chatham from the slumbers of his affection ;MPOgst themselves, ~,a strengthen, with a per-
immortality; and he hoped the spirit which once swayed menent security, the union of the two
his mind might now preside over the councils of the na- Mr. TRANT slxtte amidst loud cries of " Question* )
•
tion.—(Cries of " question, question,")—p-erhaps lee question !" l'
•.e Hon. Gentleman denied that this as
threw more of his heart than of his understanding into the not a rellgious question, It was a perpetual Popish plot,
question ; but he felt warmly upon it, and he hepeti, that- Mr. MORRISON said a few words, but incessant
as he had manifestly curtailed his argument, the House shouts of " Withdraw !" rendered him entire 4. inaudible.
would hear with him whilst he advanced one argument Sir J. YORKE rose, and obtained a momentary si-
a Parliamentary
Fo
r the Amt oeansdt —in :tt. May... . the..... Sister.....
.... Kingdoms.l42
more.—( Hear, and cries of question. )._The argument fence, on which the Hon. Baronet spoke to the following
which he wished to urge was the united force of expo.. effect :—Sir, at the close of this discussion, I wish to give
diency and right, and one which formerly in this country
was reckoned to be irresistible, and which, if. resisted, united, and for ever after live together like two brothers'i,'l
might he fatal in its consequences,—(Hear, hear.)—That (Roars of laughter,)
t argument was the voice of the people of England, and The gallery having been cleared, the House divided---
r that voice had been clearly and strongly expressed in op..
of rider, the natttre
1 position to the present measure. It was the opinion of Mr. Against it
••• • ........ ......... 320
t Canning, the great advocate of this measure, that it should Majority.. .......... -
into theigallery, we_ found n n.
- al, 78Ho
never be attempted in opposition to the voice aide people; The Bill was then raeacdlaau.,:nirdiytiwmaey
and he said, "The time was net very long ago that there On our re-admissiens
, was a decided opposition to this measure In the minds of Gentleman pro-
.tre tgre ungable to e'
itil; people
that
thereo f E England."
waillaeoofpAlelri.neCratninipinong
toifv;eiv.hlitv:h
ithout a division. collect, but which was nega-
this question. But the people were no longerlinertnen ---
nad.glireatilm9a mass expressionot•th ep
Colonel SIBTHORPE moved another clause, respect-
(Hear, hear.)—Their voice had been isioesngtiiiist the ing the admission of Roman Catholics
into bodies corporate.
proposed change. The butte with which tht Ineaeure was Mr. PEEL opposed the clause,.
hurried through parliament served greatly to aggravate the . Th House ' d• •
The again netted,
discontent it created. Oil ne. former occasion was so rno- Foe the Clause
mentous a measure hurried through with such precipitancy. Against
it n I 7
I 4 had 0233. complain also of the manner in which the peti- . Majority -
.- -
... --
tines of the . people were treated. The motives and Several verbal Ame d
... 216ments were proposed by Mr.
n
feelings of those
.who were adverse to concessioo were PEEL, and agrea to
rebuked and represented as the sentiments of bigotry and The SPEAKER-,-That
this Bill do ass ,as no* re
intolerance, whilst an exclusive claim to intelligence was are of that opinion say • es— The i ber S' • -
nu; nel-nehemetee:
asserted by those who favoured " the measure.—(Hear, of the " ayes' absolute ydYl shook th '
hear.),--The sentiments of the Clergy, he regretted, in, -An many as are of thes contrary'e ''ils:ufi'lle ti'l2„,.{)-"*
stead of neing received with respect, had been treated with comparatively faint sounds of tlie::Pr'.nole°s''k' say
n'Q,l The
stetted morn
reproof. The people wanted no incentives from the laughter.)—The ayes have it.
Clergy, but were ready to express then• own determination The Question on the Title of the Rill •t 4 " A Bill for
to rally in support of the religion of their forefathers, and , the Relief of his Ma jest ,'s Ro ° ' viz.
in defence ef its,Thpetitions oflagreed in Ina
Catholic
Subjects," 'was
. altars.
.e
stew treated slightingly by those whojpaiel great' respect! The SPEAKER.__ hat Mr Secretary Peel do carry
and attention to them wheat Acly came ft:nm a smaller 'tl ' to the H . *
pot- i this Bill :ewe of Lords, and desire their Lordships'-
tion of the ••' •
P%-..at- and on a less important necrsion. It , concurrence,
tvg,s to tlie recollection of the House, that when the Mo- i It is impossible to convey b) 1 ,
auguage an adequate. idea
nareli of this country was suffering under a distress of !ti the scone which in •d• rely
e e followed this proposition.
mind from treatment which no private gentlentlin would i All the friends of therm measureimultaneously rose; cheering,
endure, the petitions of a handfull of people, es 'and waving • !
, compared
with
rc ne s in tie i-nost
those that were now presented, were treated with ' animated and enthit • • '
elastic manuer and a great number
the greatest respect, and it was then intimated that the ' con y rded around Mr. Peel
ands ook the Holt
jrepresented the sentiments and the intelligence of the ma- Gentleman heartily 1 y the l'i 1.
ority of the people of England. The sneers and rebukes ! The Qualificatio by
Freeholders:' (Ireland) Bill was also
at present proceeded front those who formerly eulogized • - I third time and
Feat a
the petitiouers. At that period they
had a proof of the I Adjourned at a Quarter before Four o'clock thismorning.

s_