The Sun.
London, England, 1842-04-22 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY MORNINGPRIL 22, 1842.

determining roughly the claims of individuals by the amount of
money which they might chance to possess, expressed as that
amount might be in many particular ways. If a man were
possessed of a 40s. freehcld, if he had a 101. house, then he
could be deemed by the Constitution of his country sufficiently
intelligent and virtuous to have a voice in the re-
presentation of his country. That was the rough method
by which thee sought to attain the end they had in view. Now
lie was not about to find feult with anybbody ; but he would
addre s himself to the candour of Hon. Gentlemen opposit e—to
their knowledge of life, to the experience of their fellow men;
and he would ask them if, in the common and ordinary bush.
ness of life, that was the best mode of ascertaining the
merits of any individuals. Were Honourable Gentlemen
opposite prepared to say that in the ordinary private
transactions of life they would ask if a man had
a 10/. household franchise before they would trust him in any
one important business of life? Did they ask if he had a
freehold inheritance ? Did they ask if he had a 501. lease of his
landlord? No, they did no such thing. They judged by ether
means ; and I.e would ask of them this one question—it was a
question which any man who had ever considered the interests
of humanity, as connected with the views of Cioveenrnent must
have asked himself—he would ask whether there were not
other means by whirls they coedit learn—by which they could
ascertain that degree of intelligence and of probity which was
requisite for a participation in the business of Government?
That House had confer red the business of legislation upon cer-
tain classes in the country. They had excluded the labouring
classes almost to a man, from the franchise. He did t,ot say
they had excluded them altogether, for he hated exaggeration ;
and he found it practised too much on Loth sides of the House.
—(Hear, hear.) ' lie did not say the whole, but he
said that they had excluded a large port ion of
the labouring classes from share of political power.
Now he would ask the Right Hots. Baronet, who had a large
experience of men—lie would ask him if he had not met as
candid, as far-seeing, as wise, as honest, as perspicueus minds
among the labouring population if this country, as among its
wealthier classes ? He perceived that the Right Hon. Baronet
nodded his assent. But the Constitution excluded these men
from the franchise. Now he asked the Right Hon. Baronet
if it were not a subject for inquiry to endeavour to ascertain
whether these might not be admitted to the rights of the Con-
stitution?—(Hear, hear.) What was the distinction between
the course pursued by the Right Hon. Baronet on that occasion,
and that pursued by his Hen. Friend the Member for Roch-
dale? He was sure that his Hon. Friend did riot assume to
himself any exclusive power " of judging of mankind,
and determining what ought to be, or what ought
not to be ; but the only asked of that House, on
that occasion to inquire if there were not means of admitting
those most deserving and industrious men within the pale of
the Constitution? How had his Hon. Friend been met by
the Right Hon. Baronet? He was sorry to say he had not
heard the whole of the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, but
he should say that in the portion which, he had heard he did
not see much to admire, either as regarded the spirit, or the
tone, or the manner in which he spoke upon the great ques-
tion. Now, when he said that great question, let him not be
misunderstood—he did not mean to say that great party ques-
tion—there was to be no vote that evening that could
shake the Tory power ; but there was to be a vote
that would go to the heart of the labouring po•
idation, and when they came to discuss that vote,
when they came to ask of the Right Hon. Baronet and of the
Government merely to inquire into the political condition of
the people of this country—for he did not wish to allude to the
political state of the question—when they asked the Right Hon.
Baronet to consider the political condition of the people, be
would pat it to that side of the House and the other--he would
ask of the country, what they thought of the light tone of ridi-
cule, of that spirit of mockery, of that taunting disposition
which had been manifested by the Right Hon. Baronet that
evening? It was not a question, as he had already said, in
which the power of the Right. Hon. Baronet was at stake ;
but there was a trial going on of his spirit, and his character,
and his feelings as a leader among his fellow-men.
and if he had not a sympathy with his fellow men; if he were
bound to the chariot wheels of his party, if he were chained to
them, then he was nut the man for whom he (Mr. R.) took
him. He believed there was in the mind of the Right
Hon. Baronet a secret feeling of contrition for the course he
was pursuing—that he was ashamed of the course his party
was taking, and that he would willingly, if Hon. Gentlemen
would only permit him, go into that inquiry in the liberal and
candid spirit which the inquiry demanded. And who was
there that would not say that that subject required a liberal and
candid inquiry ? Who was it would say that our Constitution had
fixed upon the best mode of taking the sense of the intelligence
and the virtue of the community ? They themselves acknowe
lodged how imperfect were the means they had taken, when
they excluded ore large class which contained some of the most
virtuous members of she State. The Right lion. Baronet ad-
mitted that a large portion of the labouring classes were ex-
cluded from political power. and all that he (Mr. R.) and his
Hon. Friend aseed was, that going upon no political theory,
the House should inquire whether thre were not sonic means of
admitting the working classes within the political pale without
exposing to any risk any one of the great interests. As far as he
could see the only interest that was endangered was the mono-
p ay of political power possessed by the landed aristocracy. Read-
mit ted that an extension of the franchise would destroy the mono-
poly, bid it would not destroy the Constitution. He would ask the
House if there was any danger to be apprehended to property
by admitting within the pale of the Constitution the great
bedy of the labouring classes? That was the question to be
discussed ; that was the question at issue ; that was the ques-
tion which his Hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale asked
of the House to consider in Committee. His Hon. Friend
put forward no proposal, but he asked of the House to inquire—
admitting as he' did those people to be virtuous and en-
lightened—lie asked of them to inquire if there were no means
of admitting them to a share of political power with safety to
the community? And whet was the answer of the Right
lion. Baronet? He had heard a large portion of the speech
of the Right Hon. Baronet, and what does the speech touch
upon ? A dexterous debater. the Right Honourable Ba-
ronet had no doubt proved himself to be ; the
Right Honourable Baronet hail turned the battery of
the Hon. Member for Finsbury against the Hon. Member for
Rochdale:, he talked of triennial Parliaments, and comparing
them with annual Parliaments, he enlarged on the benefits of
the payment of Members. But they were not to be thus de-
luded from the point at issue. The point at issue was, whe-
ther the labouring classes might not be admitted to a participa-
tion in political power. The answer was " No," from the
Ministerial benches opposite. And why ? Because of the al.
leged danger to property. But no extension of the franchise
could so certainly endanger the security of property as that the
Legislature should use its power for the berefit of a particular
I class, namely, the landed aristocracy. They talked to him of
the mischief of a minimum of wages, and he put in opposition
to that their Corn. laws. The party opposite had power—the
people had none. The party opposite talked of the danger to
property; and the people who suffered and pined under their
to es.ent state, entreated, prayed, mit d, demanded of that House
simply to inquire into their political condition. The Right
Hon. Baronet, however, cut jekes at their exrense.—( Hear.)
He told them of the revolutions of the planets with great sar-
casm and much point, no doubt ; but he (Mr. Roebuck) did
not think these allusions were relevant to the subject.
He asked of them if that were the right way,
when the people demanded of them a participation
in that political power which they in that House were every
hour using for their own benefit. He asked of them, whe-
ther that was the right way to meet the popular demand,
when expressed in the calm language of his Hon. Friend?
Was that the manner in which they treated the claims of a
people, who, in the midst of their privations, had exhibited
a heroism, of which the class to which Honourable Gentle-
men in that House belonged, knew nothing ?—(Hear. )
He asked if this was the manner in which it was proper to
meet the demands, the prayers, of the great body of the labour-
ing populations of this country ? He must say that the labour-
ing population deserved the greatest, the kindest, the most
intense consideration : it was their hands that had built up the
mighty power of this country ; by their virtue it was supported
by their patience and fortitude it was maintained; they were
their breilieren in spirit and in feeling; they felt within them-
selves a power equal to their own. They say they are our
equals in virtue and intelligence, and when they ask for power
at the hands of this House, they are met by a cold taunt from
the Right Hon. Gentleman. He again asked was this
decent, was this proper, was this worthy of a great
statesman?—( Cries of " Oh, oh.") lie wished to concentrate
his responsibility.—(" Oh, oh !") They might cry " Oh !"
he wished they would seiteli it an octave higher—it would have
just the same effect. He repeated that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man was the Minister, ar.d on him rested the responsibility; on
his head, at the present moment, rested the great responsibility
of the Government of tngland. Ile would go forth to-morrow
with that responsibility upon him, and when the people came to
consider in what way their demands have been treated, they
would single forth the speech of that Right Hon. Gentleman,
and if they felt any power within them, they would ask if it was
not heartless, contemptuous, and disregardlul of all the feelings
of the people? If such should be their inquiry, what must be
the answer, but that the Right Hon. Gentleman had thus
treated the sober, calm, prudent, and fair demands of the great
body of the labouring population of this country.—(" Oh, oh !")
He could not have a nobler ancestry, anal he, like the Right
Hen. Baronet, should glory in it ; but he hoped there would
also be in his heart so much sympathy with that class, that he
should not have turned round on the great body of his country-
men, and deny them a fair share in the representation of this
country. Why did they ask it? It had been said because of
the misery existing among them ; he believed that some of the
causes of that misery, laid much deeper than their not being
epreseiated in that House ; but they would never be able to
read the people teat lesson till they were actually admitted to
the Legislature. They would then see how much of that
misery it was impossible to reach by legislation. They had
been told that it the people were admitted to power
they . would destroy all that was good and benefi-
ial in the Consitution. He repeated it was presumptuous
arrogance in them to pretend to such superiority over the work-
ing classes, when it existed not either in virtue, intellgence,
or
any quality which a human being ought to posseses.—(" Oh,
oh !" ) By that cry they were signing their own condemnation,
though they might imagine it an eulogium on their own virtue.
Did they think it right, under such circumstances, to shut out
inquiry e If they did they would shut the doors of that House in
the face of the labouring population of the country. Did they
do it on the plea of possessing more virtue, or more intelligence
than they ?—(" No, no.) No ! then why did they do it? Their
only answer was that they did not like to infringe on the
peculiar monopoly which the agricultural community of
this country enjoyed ; and they asserted that they who
now held the reins of power ought to do the • bidding of the
agricultural despots of this kingdom.—(Hear, hear, and laugh-
ter.) '1 hey might answer him by their cheers ; but when the
people came to know how this question had been treated, they
would come to the conclusion that this House did not possess
all the virtue, or all the intelligence of the community.
LORD STANLEY said, though he believed that the vio-
lenee of the Hon. and Learned Member, who hail just sat
(10%S Ili was of itself almost sufficient to justify the House in
the sight of the country, and a sufficient answer to a speech
which contained HO peat number of arguments, but princi-
pally consisted of one, repeated in various forms, and a
great number of times ; and though he doubted not that
his Right Hon. Friend was quite prepared to take the
responsibility as well as the undivided credit of that eloquent,
able, and convincing speech—( Hear, hear)—yet as stand-
ing in a somewhat different position, he (Lord S.) having
been one of those who were parties to the introduction of
the Reform Bill—littleas he thought of addressing the House
that evening, yet he could not avoid taking a portion of the
responsibility of its views, nor reconcile himself to giving a
silent vote in support of it. They were told that by the vote
to which they were about to come, they should declare that
all the virtue, all the intelligence, and all the public feeling
of this country were centred in the middle and higher classes
of the empire.—( Hear, hear.) They asse.ted no such thing.
They denied not the humblest person the attribute of
every virtue, and all the intelligence to which they
might lay claim. The Hon. Gentleman said that those who
supported the Reform Bill, laid it down that every person con.
tributing directly or indirectly to the taxation of the empire
had an inherent right to enjoy, not the privileges of citizens,
not the protection of the laws, but the exercise of the privilege
of returning Members to the Legisture. He only wished he
could appeal to any of those who at that period acted with
him.—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) He.only
wished he could see one of that Cabinet of Earl Grey who
brought forward the Reform Bill, and that he could appeal to
them whether any such doctrine was broached by any of those
who advocated that measure.—(Caeers.) What they had said
was that the right of voting for Members of the Legislature
was not an inherent right, but a privilege to be granted to
such classes of the community as from their intelligence, sta-
tion, and education, were capable of exercising that privi-
lege wisely and safely. The question they advocated was.

that the • time at which the Reform Bill *ily agitated %is
that time at which it was safe to break down the.existing
nstitutions of the country for the impose of eXteading, the
sphrre, and enlarging the limits within which that privilege
had not hitherto been enjoyed. But at no time was it argued
that it was an inherent right. That change had given a natollt
greater influence to the Commons of England, for it was
thow2ht at the time that the measure was almost revolutionary.

It gave representatives to Lirmittgbarn, Leeds, Manchtete..r,'
Sheffield, and Bath.—("No," from Mr....Ritebuck). if it did
not give representatives to Bath, it took the nomination from
ten or twelve self-elected..individuals. L-( h.eers. ) Manches-
ter, Leeds, Birmingham, Sheffiejd and . Bath—(Hear, bear)—
the great towns of the empire admitted to a large par-
tiipation in the legislative power of the country; the
small and corrupt boroughs, those which were noto-
riously in the hands of individuals, and could be
made a matter of barter and sale, excluded frinn the represen
tation. Tell him that the Reforin Bill exercised no influence
Over the legislature of this coerttey. Tell him that it did not
enlarge the influence of the Commons of this country. Tell
him that it did not make a large and extensive alteration in
the constitution of the countrs. Aye, it was called a revolu-
tion in the political history of this country. He had joined
with Lord J. Ens ell and Earl Grey ; he joined the Whigs of
that day, those who were not thereon the present °erasion.
lie joined with him in saying t hat it was not convenient to have
a revolution once a year •in that Rouge. He joined with him
in saying that it was expeciient introducing measures to make
them large at once, to let them Le large and extensive; and
when he was connected with the Government of Lord Grey
they made their measures large end extensive, because they
were determined that they should be measures by which they
could stand, knowing that it they made only slight concessions
demards would be made upon them to which they could not
accede. There were in that Honse fourteen gentlemen who
were bound to adhere to the Reform Bill as a large concession.
Those Gentlemen admitted that as much of the democratic
principle as was consistent with the safety of the country was
introduced into that Bill. Those Gentlemen formed part of the
Cabinet of Earl Grey, and as one of those Gentlemen, he would
oppose the introduction of measures so rude and ill-
concerted as that before the House—a measure, he would
venture to say. not for the purpose of settling
the country, but for the purpose or unsettling
men's minds,people out of doors that nothing
was fixed,o anticoildteciolinctginltthee. re Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man had told them that the present was a motion for nothing
but inquiry—that was a most convenient doctrine for those
Gentlemen who, agreeing in almost nothing, had agreed only
in unsettling things as they were. The Hon. Member for
Falmouth had said that he consented to the present motion.
Why did he do so? Why, he had told them for the sake of
the last seven lines only. The complaint made now was, that
there was not a fair representation of Lie people, and therefore
that it was the duty of the House to take the subject into its
consideration, but the seven lines clung to by the Hon. Mem-
ber for Fahnouth would exclude all the substance of the
Hon. Member fur Rochdale's motion. The question of
extending the right of voting to the adult popula-
tion, subject to no limitation.—( Hear.) The vote
by ballot. The no-qualification of Members, annual Parlia-
ments, and all these things the Hon. Member for Falmouth
would exclude, but he said vote for the inquiry, for the sake of
the last seven lines. They talked of voting for inquiry.
What inquiry he would ask was meant? Was it at the bar of
the House? Was it meant to bring forward any new evidence
—any new facts, or did it mean an inquiry before a Committee
of the whole House ? The truth was, the
Hon. Gentleman
wanted no inquiry—all he wanted was the affirmation of a
principle, he knowing perfectly well that lie would not be
enabled to find a sufficient number of Members to vote
with him, in order to enable him to carry it. Why, he
would ask did not all these Honourable Gentlemen move
for leave to bring in Bills.; let them embody in Bills the sepa-
rate views they entertain for the reformation of the representa-
tion of the people. If they did so what an anomaly of Bills
there would be.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He believed
that there would no one be found who would agree to their
terms. Then it was asked, whether it was the intention on that
side of the House to cast a slur on the working classes of the
country, to which he answered, Certainly net. Then it was
said that all that was wanted was an inquiry as to whether cer-
tain parties were fit to pet form the patti,ular duties
committed to them. Tell him (Lord S.) of bribery
and corruption • tell him of the want of intelligence;
and then tell :him whether they were to inquire of every
individual, if he was fit to perform the duties of legislation.
They talked about the inquisitorial nature of the Income-
tax ; for his part, he thought nothing was more inquisitorial
than the inquiry proposed, the amount of which was, whether
a party had into lligenee enough to exercise the electoral
franchise. He (Lord S.) (1.4 not know who the grand in-
quisitor might be ; but of this he was certain, that nothing
was mere absurd. The Hon. Gentleman said they applied a
rough justice. They certainly did so in one way, because
they stated that the privilege of representation should he
given to men of certain means and ' fixed state
in tae country, as they were the more likely to
have that edu ation and intelligence which fitted
them for it. The higher and middle classes down to a certain
point, be that. what it might, were more likely to be pos-
sessed from superior means and advantages given by their
situation, of the necessary quality to fit them for represen-
tatives. He did not mean for a ;moment to say that they
had more intelligence and virtue than the lower
classes, but the eduatien they had received he
thought would enable them to act with more advantage to the
country ; but what did the lion. Member for Stockport say?
, Why, he said he believed that the Legislature was the cause of
I all the evils, that it was the cause of the want and distress that
prevailed in the country.
Mr. COBDEN—I did not say so.
Lord STANLEY-1 am glad to hear the Hon. Member
say that.
Mr. COBDEN rose to explain amid loud cries of " Order,
order," and " Spoke, spoke."
Lord STANLEY—If the Hon. Gentleman disclaims the
statement, I withdraw it.—(Laughter.)
Mr. COBDEN—I will explain afterwards.
Lord STANL EY—That's quite the Parliamentary course.—
(Laughter and much cheering.) He (Lord Stanley) heard
the Hon. Member for Stockport say that his constituents com-
plained hardly of the state of the representation ; that they did
so from the state of poverty in which they were, and attributing
it to the character of the Legislature. It was possible, there-
fore, antler such circumstances, that the Hon. Member's con-
stituents were not the most impartial judges in the distress
under which they laboured. They might suppose that niea-
sures should be passed for their release, which measures,
when they came to be looked into, might be. most unwise.
lie would not enter further into a discussion of the various
questions brought for ward by the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo-
site. This only he would say, that if they desired to amend
the Reform Bill, let them come forward honestly and tell
what their proposition was, and how they meant to bring it
forward. They were acting under responsibility to large classes
of the community, ani they ought to beware, when they at-
tempted to extend the suffrage, lest they would diminish the
independence of their constituencies. Whatever their propo-
s,tions were, let them be brought forward distinctly. Let them
enable the House at least to judge of them as a whole
—as a measure ; but let them not continue to agitate
the country by moving for a Committee to inquire
into that which was at present settled. Let them not seek to
unsettle men's minds with a vague notion fur an inquiry into
the state of the representation, particularly when they knew
that they could effect no object but to introduce new elements
of discord—new elements of instability and uncertainty into
different portions of the Constitution, which should be fixed,
certain, and secure.
Captain PLUMRIDGE explained. He bad stated his in-
tention to support only the last seven lines of the motion,
whereas he was supposed by the Noble Lord to go the whole
length with the proposition before the House.
Lord STANLEY had only attributed to the Hon. Member
an intention of voting in favour of the last seven lints of the
motion.

Mr. COBDEN explained that what he said in reference to
the people of Stockport was, that they attributed their suffer-
ings to the present constituted state of Parliament.
Sir T. WILDE rose amidst loud cries of " Divide,"
" Order, order." He said he wished to explain the ground on
which he would give his vote on the present question. He did
not feel that he could support the present motion, as he did
not think it likely to lead to any practical good. It wa4 un-
doubtedly a very popular course to apply to the House to
enter into an inquiry ; but surely when the House resolved
itself into Committee. it was not with a view generally of re-
ceiving evidence, and making a report to the public, it was to
come to a resolution on a particular proposition. On such oc-
casions, the questions to be submitted to the Committee were
generally pointed out. The present proposition had a preamble
which distinctly pointed out the matters to be submitted to the
Committee, but it would be an idle duty for the House to
perform to go into Committee and bear speeches on a great
variety of propositions. The object of this Committee was to
take the opinion of the House on what was called the Charter.
Oa that subject he had made up' his mind, and he did not think

that any useful re ult would come of such an inquiry ' • and
when such was the case, considering the present state of Par.
liamentary business, and the great need there was of despatch-
ing it with as little delay as possible, he thought it very inex-
pedient to proceed with such an inquiry at the present
time.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to what had fallen

from the Right Hon. Baronet—w:hatever opinion he might
have on the proposition before the House, there was nothing
in his observations which could be construed into a slight upon
the working classes. His Hon. and Learned Friend had made
a mistake in attributing anything of the kind to the night
Vlonouiable Baronet. With respect to the motion before
the House he (Sir T. Wilde) thought it right to vote against it.
Sir H. PEEL thanked the lion. and Learned Gentleman
for the very just construction which he had put upon his
speech. He had stated that be felt that as a great body of
his fel!ow-subjects had stated their wishes with respect to re-
form in decorous and respectful language, he could not recon-
cile it to himself to give a silent vote; neither would his respect
f

wr the integrity and motives of the movers allow him to keep
silenee.—( Hear, hear.) But he must say he thought it very
hard if gentlemen would use abserd arguments, that he should
not be at liberty to point out their absurdity without being
liable to the imputation that he was showing disrespect, not to
the arguments, but to the labouring classes..--( Hear.)
Mr. WALLACE rose to order. (Cries of " Order,
order.") He submitted that this was not explanation; he
called upon the Chair to say whether it was so. He (Mr.
Wallace) considered that it was a teoor d speech.---(Hear. )
The SPEAKER said the Right Hon. Baronet was perfectly
in order.---( Hear. )
Sir R. PEEL said, surely if an Hon. and Learned Geo-
tleman referred to a speech i.t his, a part of which he did not
hear, and put a construction upon it which was not just, he
was perfectly in order in correcting that misconstruction ; and
he was only going to add one single sentence, that he thought
he showed more respect for the labouring classes, by, notwith-
standing his corrections, coming down there at five o'clock,
and listening to every woid of the debate, than if he had
come—
Mr. ROEBUCK rose to order. This was another speech—
(Loud cries of "Hear, hear," amidst which Sir Robert Peel
sat down. )
"fair
woArdirs. 13buLtts'elrV Notwithstanding
InToTpsaari,dn--4!_is(Lanaugolhitesra.jiing, Sir, that
what has been said by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, and
by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman below me, I agree in
the statement of the Hon. Member fit Bath.—(Laughter
from the Ministerial benches.) Ido say, again, that I con-
ceive, in the statement of the Hon. and Learned Member for
Bath, that the speech of the Right Hon. Baron t was derisive
to the labouring classes, and that it was not a speech
as the Right Honourable Baronet ought to have made.
The Right Hon Baronet alluded to the earth and the sun.
( Great laughter.) 'I lie Right lion. Baronet--(Ceeers from
the Ministerial benches)—the Right Hon. Baronet—(Re-
newed cheers )—the Right Hon. Baronet)—Cheers and great
laughter, which rendered it impossible for the Hon. Gentle-
man to proceed.) I really do not know why I should not
have a hearing.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.)
I do not wish to take up much of the time of the House—l
was merely going to make a few observations.—(Cries. of
" Oh, oh.") 1 beg to state that I perhaps have as
much right to speak on this subject as almost any Member
of this House. This question is said to be a Chartist ques-
tion. The House will probably recollect an occurrence which
took place in Monmouthshire.—(Cheers.) I believe I have
always represented since I have been in this House popular
opinions, and have always endeavoured to do my duty to the
constituency that sought me out.—(Great laughter.) I was
invited to become a Member of Parliament, and I
consented to accept the invitation.-7( Renewed laughter.)
I do not know why this should be a laughing
Matter. I was going to state that I was invi ed to become the
reproentative of nay constituents in this.House,—(continued
.tv..irps•

imighter, and other interruption, followed by cries of " Go on,
go on.") It is very Well to say go on.—( Roars of laughter. )
If the House will allow me, I will say a few words, to explain
why I wished to speak on this question. The House wig re-
collect an outrage which took place in Monmouthshire.—
( Laughter. ) Having always represented popular opinions.—
( Cries of " Pish, piste, shame, shame, and oh, oh !") As I
stated that I did not intend to occupy the House more than a
few minutes, 1 do not consider this treatment lair ; and, there-
fore, I. move to adjourn the debate.
. Mr. COLLINS "seconded the motion •
The SPEAKER put the questinn for 'The adjournment,
and it was negatived without a division,
Mr. BLEWITT said he should certainly not address the
House after the manner in which he had been treated. He
did not think it was at all fair towards him. He had been
for years in Parliament, and had never intruded himself on the
Nouse ; yet they had denied him common civility and con-
sideration.

Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD briefly replied.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared—

For the motion
Against it
Majority against Rick rqotion.
BUM LIGHT—RF.WARO TO MLt. GURNEY.

- . o.)e,

fir C. LEMON moved for a Select Committee to con-
sider the propriety of granting a reviard to Mr. Gurney, for
the inventimi of the Bude Light.-7-Agreed to.

SALMON FISHERIES (SCOTLAND.)
Mr. E. ELLICE. moved for leave to bring in a Bill for regu-
lating the close of the Salmon Fisheries in Scotland.
TIMBER SHIPS BILL.

The Timber Ships Bill passed through Committee.
COPYRIGHT BILL.
The Report of the Copyright Bill was brought up, and on
the motion of Lord MAHON it was ordered to be reprinted
with the amendments. _ _ _

The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House Adjourned at a Quarter after Twelve o'Cloek.

THE !KISH BAR.

MEETING OF THE IRISH LAW STUDENTS

iN LONDON.
A meeting of the Irish law students at present in
London, was held in the Crown and Anchor Tavern on

Tuesday evening last, for the purpose of taking into
consideration the provisions of " a Bill to amend the
Laws regulating the admission of Barristers in Ireland,"
introduced into Parliament by Sir Valentine Blake.
The Chair was taken at eight o'clock by Mr. F. L. Smyth.
The CHAIRMAN having explained the objects of the
meeting,
Mr. M. J. MARTYN, who was requested to act as Se-
cretary, stud that the Committee of Irish Law Students
in London, of which he was a member, totally disap-
proved of the measure introduced by Sir Valentine
Blake. They had determined to oppose it in every
stage ; and, with that view, a petition was prepared
for presentation to the House of, Commons, pointing out
the monstrous anomalies and. absurdities of the Bill ;
and at the same time praying a modification of the pre-
sent system. The Committee had deputed him (Mr.
Martyn) and the Chairman to Walt-on Sir Valentine
Blake, to remonstrate with him, and to ascertain from
what source he had received instructions to bring in such
a measure, but they were unable to obtain any clue to
the originators of the matter, Sir Valentine Blake
having only stated that he had received instructions
from a " number of law students." It was obvious
that the present system was absurd in the extreme.
No doubt advantages might be derived from students
coming over to London, but there should be no compul-
sion—it should be optional; and it' they were to be obliged
to keep terms in London, they should be obliged to avail
themselves of those advantages which it was said they
could have there. Nothing could be more absurd—no-
thing more unreasonable—than the provision of the Bill
now under consideration of the House of Commons,
th:.t eight years were necessary to enable men to ac-
complish in Ireland what might be done in England in
three years. The statutes by which the; present system
was regulated were passed at a pariod-When the practice
of the Irish Courts dirt not afford students the means of
qualifying themselves for their profession, and at a
time, too, when other motives beside made it appear po-
litic to compel Irish students to resort to English Inns
of Court; but the necessity for these laws had long ceased
to exist—the Irish Courts now affording every means
for a complete legal education, the Irish bar
being as eminent for learning and ability, and the Irish
Judges being, according to the admission of all parties,
as distinguished for their decisions as their brethren
in England.—(Hear, hear.) In addition to all that,
the continuance of the present system stamped the
Irish bar with an unjust mark of inferiority, which their
legal acquirements and character in no degree warranted;
and it exacted from the Irish students nearly double
the amount of fees and stamp duties payable by those
whose intention it was to be called to the English bar';
for that there was no advantage conferred upon the Irish
student, except forsooth the privilege of going into a
pleader or conveyancer's chambers, for which lie was
again victimised. That profession, like all others, re-
quired a certain amount of protection-.; it was not sought
to annihilate that protection ; it was not desired to
increase the facilities, nor was it requisite to increase
the restrictions, in order to meet the views of those who
were in favour of an abolition of the present system, but
the object was to remodel the existing system, and sub-
stitute in its stead one less remarkable for antiquated
absurdity, and one which would be calculated to confer
advantages upon the body at large.
The CHAIRMAN regretted that time did not permit the
London Committee to await the reply to communica-
tions despatched to the law students in Ireland, whose
co-operation it was desirable to have, in order the more
effectually to oppose the present Bill. It was unnecessary
for him to expose the absurdities of the present system,
as every law student was sensible of them. The Bill now
under consideration of the House, while it pretended to
remove the abuses of which they complained, had only
the effect of perpetuating, if not aggravating, them under
another form. The Chairman then entered into the de-
tails of the Bill itself, and in a very able and eloquent
manner elucidated its injustice, contradictions, and
absurdities.
Mr. 11.1AnTyst then brought forward the petition which,
protesting against Sir V. Blake's Bill, prayed that the
Legislature should repeal the Acts of 33d Hen. VIII. and
11th Elizabeth, and that it should be enacted in their
stead that all fit persons should be, hereafter permitted
to practice as barristers in Ireland, who had graduated
at one of the Universities of Great Britain or Ireland,
and who lead entered as Irish students any of the Inns
of Court of Great Britain or Ireland, and served therein
twelve terms; or who, not having graduated a; any Uni-
versity, should have, in lieu thereof, paid as an equivalent
such additional amount of fees and served such additional
number of terms as to the Legislathre might seem fit;
and further that the right of all students, now in any
stage of their course of preparation for the Irish bar,
should not be affected by any alteration of the present
system.
Mr. WHITE expressed his entire concurrence in the
observations which had been made, and his approbation
of the petition, which was calculated to convey the
opinions and meet the views of the Irish law students in
general; he had therefore much pleasure in moving that
it be adopted, and entrusted for presentation to the
Right lion. Frederick Shaw, and that the Bight lion.
the Lord 11layor of Dublin, the Solicitor-General for
Ireland, and other Irish Members, should be requested
to support its prayer.
Mr. DEARING having seconded'the resolution,
Mr. DUGGAN moved as an amendment, that Sir V.
Blake should be remonstrated with, and the objection-
able nature of his Bill pointed out to him by a deputation
appointed for that purpose, before any petition should
be adopted or presented to Parliament upon the subject
of it.
Mr. MARTYN stated, that he should be most anxious to
act with the utmost courtesy towards Sir Valentine
Blake, but the course suggested by the proposer of the
amendment, was totally unnecessary, as Sir Valentine
Blake had been apprised immediately after the first
reading of the Bill of the evils which existed in the pre-
sent system, and of the remedies calculated to remove
them. The Hon. Baronet had then an opportunity to act
upon those suggestions, but lie did not seem to regard
them; it appeared he was solely influenced by the repre-
sentations of seine nameless individual or some few un-
known persons, who had the audacity to impose upon
him by representing the opinions of the body of the law
students at large, manifestly without any authority
whatever.—The amendment was withdrawn.
A discussion then arose as to the Member who should
be requested to present the petition, but it was ultimately
agreed upon that Mr. Sergeant Murphy (Member for
Cork) should be requested to present it, and that a de-
putation from that meeting should be appointed to wait
upon Mr. O'Connell, Mr. Shaw, and other Irish Mem-
bers, for the purpose of securing their opposition to the
Bill.
Mr. DILLoN having been called to the Chair,
Mr. O'DwvEn said he was convinced that that meet-
ing, and the Irish law students in general, felt deeply
indebted to Mr. Smyth for his indefatigable zeal to pro-
mote their interests. He had therefore great pleasure
in proposing a vote of thanks to him. The proposition
was unanimously adopted, and the meeting then ad-

jt,urned. -
[The second reading of the Bill above alluded to was
moved by Sir Valentine Blake last night in the house
of Commons, and negatived without a division.]

THE NATIONAL CONVENTION

TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN.

Si 11,—In The Sun of Wednesday evening it was reported
that " the meeting of to-day (Wednesday) was to oppose the
steps taken by Mr. Sturge, of Birmingham." The Convention,
at the sitting alluded to, engaged in a debate on a resolution,
moved by Mr. Muir, of Scotland, at the request of his consti-
tuents, to the effect that the people should abide by the Charter
and its name, which was carried unanimously. In the course
of the discussion, various Delegates expressed different views
on the movement of the Complete Suffrage party, but the Con-
vention did not specifically meet "to oppose the steps taken by
Mr. Sturge. " Yours, re spectfully, R. K. PHILP.

MELANCHOLY DE AT 11.—Weclnesday the proceedings
of an adjourned inquest were resumed before Mr. W. Carter,
at the Wbite Cross Inn, Richmond, Surrey, respecting the
death of Mr. Francis Dagfield, who was drowned on Good
Friday last, immediately opposite Strawberry-hill. The first
witness examined was a w aterman, who. stated that on last
Wednesday week he was sculling up the river, when he saw
the body of deceased lying partly exposed on the shore at
Richmond. He immediately conveyed it ashore, but it was
in a dreadful state of decomposition. A. Mr. Smith de-
posed, that on Good Friday he and the deceased hired a boat
at Richmond, to row up to Strawberry-hill. As far as that
the witness sculled up, but when, they had got to the once
residence of Horace Walpole, the deceased expressed a wish
to row, and he (witness) rose up to give him the seat. The
boat was turned round one of the sits, and at this instant one
of the Maidenhead barges was seen close ahead, being towed
by two horses. The men on board called out to the deceased
to keep out of the way, in order to avoid the towing-rope,
but he was so unskilful that he ran the wherry right athwart it,
and it was upset: The deceased almost instantly sank, and
was never seen alive afterwards. He (Mr. Smith) with great
difficulty and exertion got hold of the toss ing-line, and was at
last pulled aboard the barge. In his opinion the bargemen
were not at all, to blame, and after the boat was upset they
seemed to renuer all the assistance which was in their power.
The drags were used for some time, but the body could not be
found. The Jury returned a verdict of " Accidental death."

EXPERIMENTS IN THE MARSHES
AT WOOLWICH.
.„
Amongst the numerous inventions submitted to the Lords
Commissioners of the Admiralty, and referred by their Lord-
ships to the Committee of master shipwrights recently sitting
at Woolwich Dockyard, was a composition to be used in place
of the substance with which vessels are at present calked to
rent'er them water-tight. The experiments ordered to be
made by the master shipwrights to ascertain its value when
applied to the purpose for which it is intended, and the result,
are interesting anti satisfactory. Two pieces of African teak,
a species of wood difficult to be joined together by glue, on
account of its oily nature, had a coating of the composition
applied to them in a boiling staterand' iff h short time after-
wards bolts and screws were attached to each end, the joined,
wood placed in the testing-frame, and the power of Bramah's
hydraulic engine applied to the extent of 19 tens, when the
chain broke without the slightest strain being susceptible where
the joining took place. A larger chain of one inch and a half
in diameter was then applied, Which broke with a strain of
21 tons, the joint in the wood remaining apparently as firm
as at first. The utmost strain the cement can bear in this
form, therefore, remains to be proved when experiments are
made with larger chains. Four pieces of hard wo..d were
then joined together, weighing in one piece 44 cwt., and car-
ried to the top of the shears in the dockyard, a height of 76
feet, from which it was precipitated on the hard granite wharf
wall below, without any of the joints yielding in the smallest
degree. 'the results of these severe tests induced the Lcrds
Corninissioners of the Admiralty to communicate with Lieu-
tenant-General Sir George 3 s urray, G. C. B. and G. C. H., fur
the purpose of making experiments with it in the marshes, by
bringing the full force of cannon-balls against it. Accordingly
a number of planks of oak 8 inches thick and fir lb inches
square were joined together with the cement, to represent
8 feet in height and 8 feet in length of the side of a first-rate
ship of war, without anything else in the shape of bolt or se-
curity to assist the composition ; and it was on Tuesday set up
as a target at the butt in the marshes. At one o'clock in the
afternoon Lieutenant-General Lord Bloomfield, G.C. B. and
G.C.11., Colonel Cleveland, Colonel R. Jones, Lieutenant-
Colonel Jackson, Lieutenant-Colonel Chalmers, Major Sandi-
lands, Major Vaughan, Brigade-Major Cuppage, and a num-
ber of officers of the Royal Artillery, and a large detachment
of the Ist battalion, were present to aaiist it and witness the
experiment. Lcrd Adolphus Fitsclateuce and a number of
civilians were also present, anxious to know the result; but,
after remaining from one to three- o'clock, it was found im-
possible to fire a single shot, two brigs having anchored within
the range, notwithstanding repeated Warnings not to do so.
At the request of Lord Bloomfield the firing was deferred till
Wednesday, the men being ordered in the marshes at nine a.m.
At that hour a large detachment of the 9th battalion, under
the command of Lieutenant-Colonel the lion. W. Arbutlinott
and Major Hope, arrived, and shortly afterwards Lieutenant-
Colonel J. F. Love, C.B. and K. 11., of the 73d Regiment,
and Brigade-Major Cuppage; but after remaining until-eleven
o'clock could only obtain three shots, owing to the length of
time occupied by the brigs in getting out of the range, and the
number of vessels passing at high water. It was originally
intended to fire from the five-gun battery; but three new
32-pounder guns having been placed at 400 yards distance or
point blank range, it was considered desirable to use them, as
they will be wanted immediately for the first class steam-vessels,
and consequently the shots did not take effect. At one o'clock
in the afternoon, however, the levels were taken and three
shots fired, every one entering the target, the third in a direct
line with tire bull's-eye within three inches of its outer circle.
The effects of these shots were wonderful, tearing the wood to
pieces, and in only one instance, where the joint had not been
good, showing that they had any effect upon the cement, so
as to separate the joined parts from each other. A hole six
inches and a quarter in diameter was then bored in the centre
of the target, and a 32-pounder shell inserted and exploded
by a match, which tore the wood to small splinters without in
many places in the least separating the compositions. This
new invention is said to possess the power of expanding like
India robber in warm climates? arid will not become brittle
under the coldest temperature. It appears to be a great fa-
vourite with naval officers, as it is so clean, having only the
appearance of French polish. The name of the inventor is
Mr. Jeffrey.