The Sun.
London, England, 1829-12-19 00:00:00

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No, 11,628.

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COMMISSION OF LUNACY.

(Continued from our Paper of yesterday.)

. . .
Sir George I'uthili's examination continued—Mr.
Davies detailed the c7rcumstanee of his purchase of
the property at Crouch-hill, which he observed was
the first cause of disagreement between him and his
mother ; that up to this time he had never ex-
pended any money without her knowledge and con-
sent. He went with his mother to look for some
place to spend the summer in the nei,zhliourhood of
Hornsey. They saw a notice on a board that the
house and grounds at Crouch-hill were to be sold—
the house to be sold furnished. lle expressed u
wish to purchase it, but his mother told him it was
not fit for him. Ile, however, went the next day
to the auctioneer who had the sale, and spoke to
him on the subject, examined the house, and be-
fore the week was out lie became the purchaser of
the whole for 7,0001. I asked him (continued the
witness) whether he had sent any person to value it,
but he said no. He had heard from a friend of his
that a gentleman in the neighbourhood had offered
6,0001. for it, which was refused. I think he told •
me that the estate had been put up to auction, and
had been bought in. He told me that he was taken
from the coffee-house at Furnivars-inn, and from
his house at Crouch-hill, by force; that he wrote in
consequence to several persons, and among the rest
to Mr. Hobler, whose name he had seen in the
newspapers, as Secretary to the Lord Mayor. He
said that he afterwards found that the gentleman
who called upon him was Mr. Hobler's son, of whom
he had never heard. He said that he had given
some papers to that gentleman which were of great
importance. He did not describe what those papers
were. lie said that as soon as he regained hi 3 liberty
he should prosecute every body who had any hand
in placing restraint upon him. He said that he
would do so if it cost him 2,0001. He said that he
had a particular talent at cross-examination, and that
he would expose the ignorance of those who said
that he was not of sound mind. He went down on

his knees and expressed his obligation to me for
having called on him. He said that be was amply
repaid for his imprisonment in having been allowed
to converse with the physicians who had been sent
to him by the Lord Chancellor. He was very much
excited during all our conversation. lie told me

that he had-repeatedly dreamt an ex'raordinary
dream. He described it to me. He said that
something had been revealed to him in it respecting
his future destiny. He said that certain letters
which he had been writing to the Lord Chancellor
were proofs that he was under the particular
protection of Providence. After these three visits
I made a report to the Lord Chancellor that he was
not of sound mind. I made that report on the Bth
of September. I saw him again on the 18:h of
October, by the desire of his mother. I went to
satisfy myself whether his previous delusions still
existed. He was still very fond of his mother, and
he said that his mother was fond of him : but he
would never return to Philpot-lane whilst she was
there, though he was quite convinced that when
she left Philpot-lane she would destroy herself.—
Whilst he acknowledged her affection for him, he
admitted that if this investigation proved him sane,
she would instantly destroy herself. At this visit I
found him considerably better in both bodily and
mental health than he was before. He had gained
flesh, and looked more tranquil. His demeanour
was more quiet. He told me that the persons in
the house were behaving very kindly to him, and
that he would rather be in a lunatic asylum than
any where else under rustraiut, except in his own
house. When I first saw him I was.unacquainted
with his habits, but he appeared to be of a delicate
frame of body. He did not appear in robust health.
In October be appeared to be much more so; and
the fact is, that a healthier state of body precedes
frequently a healthier state of mind. Having ascer-
tained the state of his feelings to his mother, I
asked him about the servants of the house, and
from his answer, which the witness gave, but which
from delicacy we omit, I concluded him insane. He
refused to answer some questions put to him by Dr.
Frampton. Dr. Frampton asked him whether he
thought of marrying, and who was the lady. He
declined to answer the question, but he previously
had told me that he thought of marrying two or
three ladies, and that one was a servant in his own
employment. It is very common for an individual
to refuse an answer on question,, which, if an-
swered, might show his insanity.
Sir C. WETHERELL—CaIi you state to its, as a
medical man, any instances of insane persons who
have practised such caution and guard over them-
selves? The witness knew of several such instances.
Are there several cases on this point in medical
books ?--Ce►tainly : numerous cases.
Do you know an instance w Inch occurred in the
ca.e of a man of the name of Matthews ?—I do;
that case is in Illustrations of illadnea, by Hallam.
Sir C. WETHERELL was proceeding to inquire
into the circumstances of that case, when
Mr. ADOLPHUS objected to his inquiry.
The ettiEF COMMISSIONER decided that Sir C.
Wetherell's question could not be put to the wit-
ness, if due seference were paid to the general
of es idence in similar eases.

The examination of :sir G. Tuthill then pro-
ceeded—Caution in concealing opinions OCCUIS iO
chronic madness, particularly if the party knows that
he has any pal lieniar object to gain by it. It fre-
quently occurs in insane persons, who do not re-
cover; sometimes also in insane persons, who do
recover. In the latter it especially happens when

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PR ICE 7D.

The disease begins to assume a less acute form. In
the acute form they have not the power ; but, in
'proportion as their amendment advances, they ac-
quire that power, and frequently avail themselves of
it to deceive those who do not know them. A com-
munication trade previously to the insane person on
any particular subject •,-..0u1d assist him in bringing
that coral oul and caution into action. It may hap-
pen that he may also be tutored by other persons to
exercise that controul and caution.
Sir C. WETEIERELL—Supposing a person to be
,eally insane, with this self-controul preventing his
disclosing his insanity, would he or would he not, if
at liberty without controul, be as dangerous as if he
(lid disclose his insanity ? Witness—lle might be
much more dangerous, because, if he disclosed his
insanity, cautions might be taken to prevent danger.
Sir C. WETHERELtMay the morbid image re-
main in the mind consistently with cunning enough
to conceal it ? Witness—Certainly.
Crows-examined by Mr. ADounius
nothing of this young man previously
visit to him. As to his _education and kit.previOus
habits and gesticulations, I knew nothing. On my
first interview I thought him of -unsound mind.
The next day I went to Philpot-lane before I visited
him, and I there had interviews with his mother and
Nlr. Lowe. They did not agree in the statements
which they made to me. lls mother told me that
two of his paternal uncles had been insane. His

-new

=en his mother lu l'hilpar-htee, I anetont:l is to
true that he had given impoi taut pepeis to a person
of n horn he knew nothinn.;,and that was one of the
zrounds On which I founded toy rept.Tt of itoariiz. •
If hal been balane'rix and in denbt, in,uni-y
of his paternal tnicies would hare turned the scie
against him. My additional rea,one for think nz
hint
insane wire his learninn to box, his puieluiNiniz
fowl of Belcher for 10s., and his sayin". ilnAt ho
could weep over his rabbits, which be 14 not
seen for siz weeks.
Mr. Anotxtrus—And which, unlike hint, :veil. at
liberty.

mother impressed me with the uniform kindness
with which her son had treated her up to the be-
ginning- of the summer. She did not tell ire that

their twarrel commenced about his purchasing the
estate at Crouch-hill. She told me that she con-
sidered it an imprudent purchase. lie toM me that
the first act of insubordination to his mother Was
that purchase. I know nothing of his estate
at Crouch-hill. I do not know that any persons
in the tea-trade were jealous of, or had insulted
him. Ido not know whether the account which he
gave me about the rabbits which he got from
Belcher e..a. true or nor. 1 consider it correct, as
also what he told me about purchasing a horse of
Mrs. Irv, and hi: going to his banker's and to the
Furnival's.inn coiree•house.

Mr. A DOLPHUS—Then, Sir, if you believe all
this to be correct, may I a•k you, did he tell you
any thing• that you knew not to be Ittie ? Wi'-
ness—He told me that the persons in the house had
given him names to insult him. That I believe not
obe true. He told me that I should find his mo-

lerinsane. From m)• own knowledge I know dm

Mr. ADOLPIIUS—Have you any more instances,
in the course of your communications with him, of
his sta►ing to you things as true which, of your own
personal knowledge, you knew to be untrue ? No
answer was given to this question.
Mr. ADOLPHUS—Was there any point in his nar-
rative of matters of fact on which you could judge
of the truth or untruth of what he told you, from
any other source than the information which you
derived from the persons in the house, or retreat, or
from his mother ? Witness—lt is not front any
communication from his mother that I judge him
insane.

The witness—lle said nothing of ht,t
rime I vi.ited him, my name was not announe.-d to
him h, fore I went into his rootn. Thrit• v. as no
.litiiculty in gctting to him. Mr. Polhill aivise,i
me to go to- him towinotinceil, beeio_Ne he t:wut;f~t
that Mr. Davies would not see me if I tk.;:t in my
name.

Mr. ADOLPIIUS—That is not an answer to my
question, Sir George, and you know it as well as I
do. I will repeat the question to you again. Was
there any point, &c. (repeating his former words) ?
Witness—No, there was not.
• Mr. ADoennus—No, there was not—and that
answer I have got at last.
The witness then continued—A sane man, if he
had been confined us a madman, would express in-
dignation at it ; but not in the same manner as Mr.
Davies did. 1 will not bs sure that Mr. Davies did
not know of my report to the Lord Chancellor on
the 18th of October. The great freedom with
which he conversed with me at first was owing to
the state of his disease; afterwards he was more
reserved. I cannot believe .that any man in his
senses, however low born, even though he should
be the son of a common porter and of a-cook, would
express himself compensated for his imprisonment
in an asylum by having the honour of a visit from
me by order of the Lord Chancellor.
Mr. ADOLPHUS—May it not be possible for a
man to be put into a retreat, and yet in his senses, if a
another man can be found to sign a certificate, de-
claring his insasiity wirhout even seeing him ?
The Witness—lt is possible; just as an innocent
man may be taken up for a crime which he has not
committed. When I saw him on the 18th of Oct.
his bodily health had much improved, arid as the
mental health improves with the bodily, I told the
Lord Chancellor in my report, that I was of opiuiou
that Mr. Davies would recover.
Mr. ADOLPHUS—TeII me particularly, Sir George,
what occurred at the last interview which you had
with him ? 'I he witness—At the last interview 1
went into his room with Dr. Frampton. It was
about seven o'clock in the evening, and we found
him reclining on his bed. He got up to receive us.
We inquired how he was. He made no particular
answer, but said, " much as I was." I did not feel
his pulse, nor look at his tongue. Dr. Frumpton
asked him if he was aware of the expense of this
inquiry ? He said he could not tell. Dr. Frampton
told him that it would put his property to very con-
siderable expense. I think he then reminded us that
his mother must pay it. Dr. Frampton said that
that would ultimately be the same thing, as his
mother had no other son but him. He admitted that
it would be so. Dr. Frampton then asked him if he
would be reconciled to his mother ? He said "yes."
I asked him whether he would return to Philpot-
lane and live with his mother ? Ile said " No ; he
had rather that the inquisition should proceed than
that." He was then asked if he had any intention
to marry ? He said that he had entertained such an
intention, but he declined to tell us the name of the
lady. Dr. Frampton said that if Ire was not inclined
to answer, he did not wish to pry impertinently into
his (Mr. Davies's) affairs. Ile told me that he was
treated very kindly in the retreat, turd that the
matters of which he had complained to me had
ceased. He wished that he had never mentioned
them to me. Ile told me that he had seen the
affidavits of his mother and his sister against him.
He expressed great indignation against them on that
account. it was after mentioning those affidavits
that he refused to go surd Lye with his mother.
Mr. ADOLPHUS—Now, I ask you, Sir George,
what was there in the course of hie conduct that
day, which led you to suppose idol insane ? Wit-
ness—Noth.ng dee'dedly, except his mode of speak-
ing of his fandly.
Mr. ADOLPHUS—And that was all ? Witneseeee
The disturbance of the natural affections is e syeeistoia
of insaniy.
Mr. ADOLPHUS—Then do I understand you to
say that every men who quarrels with his mother
is mad ? The witness—No.
Mr. ADOLPHUS—Is it not possible that there
may be ill-treatment on the part of the mother rte
well as insanity on the part of the son ? The W;ts
ness—Yes.
Mr. AnoLestwseself Mr. Davies had said that Ire
would have gone home to his mother, would you
have advised the doors of the retreat to be opseoeCt
to him ? Witness—Certainly not, 1 should have
required much more to have fel: myself justified in
releasing him ?
Apoe.onose—lndeedl What, after you lrrrve
told us that there was decidedly nothing, except his
mode of speaking against his family, a Inch led you'
to suppose him insane' The witness, in answer to
Whet questions, deposed as follows ; —After I had

Re-examined—l should deem Mr. Davies insane,
if I knew nothing of the insanity of his naeles. I
should have judged him insane, even if I had ktiewn
nothing of his giving up important. papers t,s Mr.
Nobler, of whom he knew nothing.
By the COMMISSIONERS—On the Sib Derernber
am of opinion that he was unable to govern hi••
links. From the evidence which I have heard '
this investigation, I should date the commeu,isaluris
of his insanity from his visit to Mr. Lawrence. A t
the time when Mr. Gibbs describes him as insane,
I do not consider that the -disease of insanity hail
commenced; he never :assigned to me any renson
fur not going We* to his Mother, though I pressed
him on the snhieet; be generally ev
ti :aSked him for an • .
three several times-; he•never gave stay other t'eason
for not going back to his mother than that he wi •lied
to act for himself, and that his mother IA mild not
let him; he said that she eontrouled him too mod:,
and biterfered improperly in his business.
Dr. Algernon- Frampuiti.—l did not know Mr.
Davies till the 6th of August,' when I wss cL,t f
ployed by his friends to visit him. I met that 'lay,
at his house, Drs. Cobb, English,' end Davis. f
was introduced into a huge room, where were seve-
ral persons, With all of whom, sate the medic.d
gentlemen, I was unacquainted. Au arritt.,remerd
was made amongst us that we should exstnne Mr.
Davies singly. From 'a hat I saw on that uil2;sio,.,
I considered- him of unsound mind. Ile doctor
then proceeded to describe the occurrences which
took place at this his first visit in terms not dissimilar
to the evidence already given by the other medical
witnesses. He then proceeded as follows
saw Mr. Davies on the Bth of Decerael. 1 con-
sider him still of insane mind. The evidence of Sir
G. Tuthill, which I have just heard is, as far as re-
gards what passed betwe en him and Mr. Davies ai,d
rne, perfectly correct. I had also en inlet view with
Mr. f)avies on the 7th of December. 1 iliqured
into the circumstances of his intended mat jag,, sod
into his purchase of Crouch-hill. I ark. d
whether he had any intentions of marrying when he
bought that estate He said that he had i; ,d ,ach
intentions : he had thought of tro different ladies.
I asked their names, but he declined to answer. I
asked him if he would return and be reconeiled to
his mother ? lie stated, that from a sense id* dory
he would avoid any unpleasant or rindieti..-e pro-
ceedings towards his mother ; but he wc•uld lost
be entirely reconciled to her, so as to ii‘e with
her. I asked lsim why ? Ile replied, that she inter-
(erred too much in the arrangers,lit of his busine.s,
and controlled him more than he liked. I alte,l him in

what particulars ? He replied, that he had ihonaht
it necessary, for the proper management of his busi-
ness, that his men should be thoroughly clean and
dressed, and take their stations in the warehouse by
nine o'clock in the morning. He cared that she
ioquired,too much into the expenditure of his petty
cash—his pocket money. I asked him if he had any
other complaints against her : he stated that he [ad
none. Those two complaints were all that he stated
against his mother. I endeavoured to convince my-
self that. his mind was as unsound as at Crouch-hill.
He admitted that he had done some things there
which he ought riot, but he did not state what they
wtr^. Ido riot recollect any thing more of import-
ance which took place on the 7th of December.
Cross-examined by Mr. ]3RoDEtticK-011 the 7th
I alluded to the expence of this proceeding, and en-
deavoured to persuade hint to put an end to it.
Mr..BRODERICK—That is, to be considered mad I
Witness—l told him that he was recover lag, and
that soon this proceeding would be unnecessary. I
told the same thing to his mother that cvt Mag. I
did not point out to his mother that if be did not
resist this inquisition, he would he found insane.
He complained of:being kept in custody as an insane
man, when be was-perfectly sane. Supposing he had
been saneond imprisoned as insane, I should consider
his answer about. not taking vindictive prcreedioga
against Iris mother, as the conduct of a sen-ibks and
feeling man. If my opinion is asked as a gendeman,
I think it was the symptom of a man of delicate mind
not to mention the name of the ladies whom be was
anxious to marry.

Mr. BRODERICK—WeII, then, if you think his
answer respecting his unwillingness to proceed
against his mother, to be the answer of a sensible
tend feeling man, and his reluctance to disclose the
name of a lady whom he was anxious to marry, u
symptom of a man of delicate rn;nd, what was there
in his conduct on the 7th of Decernkter last, which.
led von to consider him insane on that day ? Wit_
nes:.-1 could not consider him sane on the 7th a
December, because he would not admit hin-iseff to
have been insane on the Bth of August,—(Latighte r
and a slight hiss, which msde the Commissioners
observe that if the spectators indstlged in such exhi-
bitions of feeling the room must be. clef:req.—The
witness then continued.--I consider these was k
delusion in his mind us to his mother's conduct.
his mother had interfered as he described, there, would
he no delusion. Ido not know that his rnether has
interfered. I am one of the gentiernea who eau
sign a certificate end send say mow, if I please.
without seeing him, to a mad.noie.e. I never in-
qiiired how Mr. Davies managed his business on the
6th of August, though I declared that he was ince-.
liable of managing it. I considered that the pur-
chase of Crouch-hill for 6,000 guineas was. itself an
act of insanity. If it were to sell for more, I should
still think him insane in havir g por,ila„,l it. I
should think his purchase of 4 se ut of insanity,
considering his circumstances,

Mr. BttoDERICK.—AVimt Lk you know of ItiF cir-
cumstances ?—The witness.—l know nothing of his
circumstance—(laneter,\,--_tit g. h 1 ;
ve iltict as my
opinion, because I consider that et loan of business
ought not to lock up so much nt his capitid. The
more extensive his busiue*a the more occasion Lk:
has for his capital,

Mr. BttstThciti—Supposing that he wire to bo
worth 40,:1001., and to be making 40001. ts-year,
and to Ivish :o have a country-Louse for eitlicr his
health or his innusement, and to give 7,000/. for it,
would you suppose lkim to. be mad in t,o doing.
The witness-... 10 his situation, ass man of busitwti„
I should certainly suppose him mad. I had r'o emy
v.on.counication with Mrs. Bywaier Rd t mode
in which he got the 7,0001. to pa,y tht•Croueb,
hill estate.

Mr. Elwin: m— Wctl, you have given roe, vane
opinion, and I hope 1. know how to value it, as to
Nhat consitutes are act of insanity. Winkt else w;,,q
there, or was there any thing else in Mr. Davies's
oaudnet, which induced you to consider him insane?
The witness—l consider hi. desire to lost:ruble six
physicians—(A laugh),--six lawyers, and two re-
porter., a proof of his insanity. I had the same rya..
sons for considering him mad on the Bth of IV*CrIl.
ber, as I had on the 7th of August. t bud no 0,1,er
reason to suppose him mud on the Bth of December
than his repeated denial that he was mad on the 7th
of August. There was .no disease of hods/ whilst
he was at Crouch.hill, sage .so an the mind
affected the

Mr, 13,at;puticx—Did you pre•cribv for him a;
Crottch-;till NVitmss—i !;:t‘e hill, p,„„;Tiptio,,,
Mr. BRuputlcN--You ifztve him ph! sic fur his