The Sun.
London, England, 1842-07-16 00:00:00

and
ibt
- I
1 ve to se ega lee the e-yeeleg, in • rete, tea
jthe House htight'Ve•erive ,he 101 l ter the protection of her s
restes pers'en • h.ch he underetood was to be sent down by the
LoecK,
The Messengri'from he Lords wre then called, and the
delivered,' wisth two -menments, e
whieh,
After a few worts front the SOLICITOR-GENERAL
*ere agreed to without eisenssien.
SUPI'LY.
firmee again went itito Cr mmittee on the vote of
fur tM 'for the expense of printing, -binding, and stationery
• aro ""-sesieral Government. Departments in Epgland. Scotland,
et and. and the Colonies, and lor printing for the two Houses
,h.arlianient.—The vote was agreed to.
cils'urgee4stim rat 22,000/. was then voted to defray the law
the sum et 102 8751. was voted to defray the expenses o
eonviet establishment at home and at Bermuda.
rh2tueZitoo/. was voted to defray the charges and expenses of
"Anviet establishments of New South Wales.
v'e of 25,000/. for the expenses of captive cegroes and
ated itee icans was then agreed to
per's!'he vote of 11,311/. being proposed for the salaries of
I,"°s {
HIND in the care of public recm ds,
e 'r H E called. the attention vi the House to .he
ari
Lug unfinished publications of the Record Cornmissiou, and
nhiks "state of the work ent:tledlii,eorians of Britain,'
WitS undertaken by the command of his late Majesty
h:''rge IV. The conducting of this wotk was enousted to the
ee!ms of the late Mr. Petrie, and one volume of it bad been
II An expense of 19,004. suss incurred, and he believe•i
4,13°°('1. more would be sufficient to finish the work.
ee; GRA HMII saiheubject to which bis Hon.
-end called the attentiod nt
of s
he* House, was one of much
enrurO and nationel imeortanee. He understood that one
,„ ume of the Aecient Historians was completed, and that the
eTe"nd had been left incomplete when Mr. Petrie &ed. It
oTutlidi beethe ditty of the Go, ernu:ent, acting with the Keeper
t Pudic Recce ds, aed Sir Henry Ellis, to censide r
Pr
'ether it would not be desirable that the publication should
se& With respect to other publications, he should adopt
l'ase,
ueurse porsued by the late Government, and below the
ter.riteendation of Lord Langdale.
After A liort cenvenation, the vote was agreed to.
of 30,000/. for the expenses of public education in
~rtat• Britain, was then proposed.
it elf' E' ART thought that this grant was miserably small;
ste appr obrium of our etimtes. He wised to hnow
larßet 'thaerh it sea, the intention ofs thea Government toh move fir a
tem. or to apply it on any new principle?
stet the CHANCELI.OR of the EXCHEQUER said it was
sr; tue intention of the Government to propose any larger
reepr
k this .
ot.r. year ; and it would be appropriated in the usual
•
.ref:ll,. MILNER GIBSON thought that the sum was much
tow Mall. He believed also that the system of education foi-
l*:
aced
in the national schools was most unsatisfactory. It ap-
thered that few or no books were read in these seltools, except
st hible and Catt chism. The Hen. Gentleman here quMed
16„"tetnent f the Hon and Rev. Baptist Noel, as to the un-
tie:me, results of this system in narrowing the melds of the
wren would
.e was persuaded that the ilan of national edu-
wnuld never be placed on a impel- basis until the schools
Wit c °Pen, d equally to child, en of all persuasions, and taken
ill the the hands of clergymen of any particular denomination.
tUti's-rr. PROTHERION also thought that the grant was tar
n übject 11, when they cons dered the paramount importance of
o •
-'-'OWRING thought that the smallness of the grant in
f;,• and powerful country-like this was positively disgrace,te .
iteeeee Ted that the time was at hand when it would be grefly
ased
Ms
.I'Q'; • 1110rliEROE objected to the mode according to which
ittertulUsinstructioti was given under the present system of.
'apsiell`mr. He was opproed to dividing that instruction into
Relieral ,antlgeneral. it • was most desirous that. a system of
fee religioucinstruction should be given to the children,
V -"ededlt the general truths of Christianity, on which all
aneerute
„e r.
coo --"stILDERS thought that the Hou e had reason to
A
tie, 1) atn that they were not furnished with the same informa-
Rretted eui this subject as the House of Lords had been. He re.
fir th t° say that, of the three sister kingdoms, England washy
6,000 e worst educated. In the town of Oldham, which contained
Gent °i' ',OW inhabitants, and other towns, wag§ but one
bout, " 'chord for the education of cleldren. fie trusted that
Qov~improved system of education would be adopted by the
the ;`;ment, and he begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman.
the ,cretary for the Home Department, whether it was
of croon of the Government to propose any grant
the 8 tineY to promote, in conjunction with education,
stem of singing now taught at Exeter-hall ?
the J. GRAHAM said tnat he was surprised to hear
leh_t1)"l• • Member say, that' in towns of 6,000 or 7,000
ttnnts there were no schools.
GP it CIIILDERS—GeneraI schools.
. GRAHAM did not know what the Hon.
ecnatl meant by general schools. All he could say
‘l,,ft that he believed that religious and moral education
B,iAB given in almost every town. As to what had been
ere:', Oldham, nothing but the Hon.
the veraeity. Could induce him to believe the state-
Lat-0 In answer to the Hon. Gentleman's question he
t state that Government intended only to ask for
tgoung(rant which had been given jag year for education,
)f. which would be applied to those singing schools. It
tits be for th..e Government to consider whether, on a
future occasion, they would bring forward any specific
-`•
'asure tOr that
purpose.
le e . 1. ORKE said there was no way in which the
money Could be better expended than in giving
'Llgious and moral education to the people.
Mr. HUME had certainly expected that something
lvould be done by the Govertimetitfor the improvement
‘l.llnational education. The lamentable state in which
ts country was in this respect, was a reproach to the
rislature. When the 11'
bi"
,e most anxious to establish
were in power, they
a general and extensive
tsystem of education, but they were opposed by the
tY now in power. The Government would do better
p:xktid the public money on the education of the
bf than on the. building of prisons, upon which sums
aq„10"400/. in one place, and 20,0001 in another were
Pre,,.ntrcl• If they educated the people they would
peisvrlL crime, and thus do away with the necessity for
r 1
'L1g,gk,,t„°,....:‘11-orni,:a, whose name we could not leare,
'1112.1c the propriety of Government devising
Wiien en, '1) remedy in cases of public charities, where,
I"euth ."ise
„ of dispute arose, the tunds thin were he-
for the promotion of education were expended
in the Courts of Equity.
Alec(objected to what some Hon. Gentlemen
t,, general re•igitats instruction being adopted
it t 1,7 schools. The instruction should be specific.ttirl',!Y admitted sectarian as well as orthodox teachers
tip N •hoots
et, • they would have different interpretations put
ev:ber,„l."B4tlle texts of Scripture. and those the most,
The true object of education was to train up
't443 11 so that they might in after life discharge those
4'444'4,2;1y, soberly, and honestly. Such an education
NI, not, be merely secular, for persons Of the highest
trir4:t: education wore ()Len guilty of the 'grossest
Mu~iii°lleligioue instruction was inseparable from true4l
Iteply;n, and no kind of merely moral instruction would
li. 48 place
r,
ewers '-'I4IsON said that the clergy had been tried and
tl • The I • . •
mg e nspector,, who were themselves
114ti„;'111),ell of the Church of England, regretted that in
tett wat schools there was no real education. The child-
Illiteere taught nothing but the formularies of the
therri ue and lie hOped the torsoGonment would not allow
syeSirrelin.'es to be bound clowne o hopeless and useless
tints,
'`t contended. INGLIS contled that no plan ofl duce-
," 0;"411..1d, according to the Constitution, be supperted
11
ng Ls of the public in,. vies from the House, which
hot based upon the principles of the Established
I'l 0'1,7' He had heard the Noble Lord, the President
bite tiCouncil, express opinions which vier.: inconsistent
the lise and which he hoped were also at variance with
9Pi llions of the rest of her Majesty's Ministers, who,
'l,'PrePteti Would not allow that Noble Lard to be their
• What he considered education was, that
;Li' i‘vils commenced in childhood, upon Christian
rltir-,l:j'ese and perfected in adult life in the Christian
Owtl-1! under Christian
ministers. He could not sit
.I,thty expressing. his gratification that her Ma-
Able 4iiiist Cr,leis were nt7t following the example of their
Cie J lea. tie at the head of the Council.
Rteii•jt; GRAHAM could not sit in silence and hear an im-
Zee,ii east upon his Noble Friend the President of the.
Odier's.that he held opinions which - his colleagues' ought to
hieiversie His Itight Hon. Friend (the Member for Oxford
°Use, 1) Professed to be the greatest lover of order in the
(greed an-knd yet, in a manner by no means according to order,
et' to apt eches that were made in the other House.--
Sea
th-Yet ]tie was a supporter of the present Government,
at es) e took the best means of sowing distension amongst
e:rsnd of lessening their influence, by representing them as
hiltiie with each other.—.( Cheers. ) With respect to
essire, peen said last evening in the House of Lords by the
*tees "rat of the Council, upon a Bill sent up from this
Zith be would say that his colleagues agreed entirely
ith tie Noble Friend - and when the Bill came down
t d tproposed in the House of Lords
b u,Baronett'atmthaid should na
h • his euort —( Cheers. ) The
at‘de to what had.
fallen from his
r idnetnet of the Council, and had said that
then itttneritst of hiessNoble Friend were contrary to those of
`Ale ut!tablished Church. He (Sir James Graham)
.would
th ul. rye that hi. Noble Ft ientt had uttered those sentimeres
hand„4tre'enne' the Primate of all England, of the e Bishop of
rte r aed of the whole bench of Bishops, and it they could
110 duo
ere'is" to any passage of that speech which was con-
-110 ttu:iltthe doetrinys of the Established Church, they would
L'i'weer, elute have rei radiated them.—(Cheers.) Perhaps,
tritriseif * the Hon. Baronet the Member for Oxford, considered
iarti a_more efficient and better guardian of the Church
s:,,eet shops t hemse:ves.—( A laugh.) The Hon..t
h.O he 1! threugheut his seoech. dealt. in
.vague general»t.
1:"0rk,,,141 )et to learn as hat specific objection the Honour Ole
t. 'he 'l,_tt to make to that speech.—( Hear.) With regard
'lltion'lluieut 01 education, he would say, that it was the in-
-14, the Government to adhere on that subject to the
4ltitite h'" Council of 1839.—(Cheers.) It was true that
been passed by their political opponent!, but it
rrl'ght i)t, be forgotten thrt it had been passed alter what
se's, thr, "fled a defeat—that it was the result of a compro-
rt'lete,„ ;t tees a which had been dictated to the late Go-
rtease,e 9y their political opponents—that in fact it was the
htbe Oppositittn which now constituted the Govern-
ins l, of
London"a The Archbishop of Canterbury and
tthef
Qees„r were parties to it. foe
appointmen of.
Oterhur was sul•j, et to the veto of the Archbishop o
th'vsen Y• To the provisions of that minute, the present
s were determined to adhere.—(Cheers.) . Under
ot that minute,. o grant could be made to the
(10tile Foecter Hall ; and nif her Majesty's Government
,),4:iteze
a' malt expedient to pi opose a grant to those classes, a
e, eil,talflicat on would be made to uarliament for that pur-
ee subject s_UPnlemental estimate would be proposed, when
seCetts, , "Quid be brought regularly under discussion, and
Jett the House of Commons would be taken on the
h'-4 (r(i lie-era.) If he were asked his individual opi-
Are
usi no'e subject of Mr. Hullah's classes, he should
"es ation uu saying that he approved of them.
uees 44 an inr
V', 010,„ 1 •cent and a moral recreetion, and an amuse-
isete I,s desirable for the working classes could not be de-
`lasses('4l44:l(lltlon to the singing classes there were three other
tterrit fur arithmetio one for writing. and one for linear
eu,nu.l,l"'rhi\an"v.ve he couici not imagine a'nth.ini.,, less excep-
lu,
Hinese three classes. It was} -aid that this was
e said no! The persons attending these classes
adults and artisans.—( Hear.) The Hon. Member fel
;tea etrose traiee harte taunted him with speaking as if he were under
I,:ezier could assure the Hon. Member that he was
'beaystraint, and that he had endeavoured to speak, as
el:4er
i Lodeavoured to speak, (rankly.—( Hear, ) The Hon.
se-id that the Government ought to propose some
vedisesi.,etemote general system. Now, he knew nothing
set c' and uts for a Government to hold out a hope of souse
ofersi'Otl erki 'hen se:-.erne being carried without having -con-
tl2eed the details by whirai it was to hn carried into
• ktrte,vitalise .of the present government.
e Lute oirpitcoiticla bz grii?e-dolibstra.