The Sun.
London, England, 1829-06-20 00:00:00

FOREIGN RELATIONS.

The Earl of ABERDEEN, by his Majesty's com-
mand, presented certain Papers to their Lordships,
explanatory of the state of our relations with Por-
tugal. These Papers had been presented to the
other House in consequence of an Address, and his
Majesty bad also commanded that they should be
lei,: before their Lordships.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE rose to ex-
press his regret that Parliament had not entered into
an investigation of our foreign relations; but if the
state of them had been overlooked, he trusted that
would not be construed into any acquiescence in the
policy of Ministers. The present moment was one
to justify the greatest alarm and mistrust. There
was a time when the voice of this country was in-
fiuenral, and, indeed, all-powerful in Europe, but
that was not the case now. When he contemplated
our proceedings in the East, our conduct in the
Tagus, and our interference at Terceira, he thought
we were now pursuing a very different policy from
that formerly pursued by this country. The prin-
ciple that now guided our councils was that of non-
interference; but it was impossible that we could so
act upon it as to make its observance absolutely in-
e‘itable. By what right was it, he Should like to
know, that we fired into the vessels going to Ter-
ceira? It was said that they had false clearances,
but that did not authorise firing into them, and
killing the subjects of Donna Maria. A key to our
present policy was to be found in a speech of the
Noble Earl last Session, who had described Don
Miguel us adhering to our interest. He would like
to know what further indignities we were to expect
from Don Miguel, and what further insults our
Government meant to permit in the absolute King ?
It was stated that a Noble Relative of his, who was
about to return to this country, had been instructed
to propose to Don Pedro that he should consent to
the marriage of his daughter with the usurper of his
throne and the murderer of his friends. He hoped
that the report was not true, and if it were true lie
was sure that instructions of so profligate, so revolt-
ing a nature, had never before been given. The
Noble Earl also, he hoped, would give their Lord-
snips some information as to the state of affairs in
the East, and as to what extent he meant to carry
into effect the Treaty of Loudon of July, 1826.
The Emperor of Russia, it was stated last Session
by the Noble Earl, had waived his rights as a bel-
ligerent in the Mediterranean; but it appeared that
he had broken through this treaty and his own pro-
mises with impunity. It was probable that treaty
was to be violated; he hoped not; and he hoped
lie should receive from the Noble Earl a well-
grounded assurance to the contrary. The Morea, it
was true, had been pacified, but not by England.
That had been accomplished by France. There
was another topic he would refer to—our relation
with the new States of South America. Govern-
ment ought to endeavour to promote the peace of
those countries, and not leave them a prey to their
present anarchy.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said if he should then
decline all discussion, it was rendered unnecessary
by the papers he had ust laid on the table, and to
them he referred the Noble Lord. They had been
prepared with no niggard hand; and if more were
required, he would not say that more should not be
produced. The Noble Lord had made no distinct
accusation. He complained that we acted on prin-
ciples of friendly policy towards the present Ruler of
Portugal, and allowed the infraction of some treaties,
and he seemed to found his complaints on an expres-
sion which fell from him (the Earl of Aberdeen) last
Session. His objections to the character of the pre-
sent Government of Portugal are nothiog.to the
purpose. Any persons could indulge in indignant
invectives ; but thesquestion,for us to consider was,
whether or not we were right in observing a strict
neutrality in the question of the disputed succession
to the Crown of Portugal ? If it were right that
we should be neutral, we ought to be so fully and
honestly, and not affect a neutrality from which, for
motives of conveniency, we were to depart whenever
it suited us. He did riot think it correct to deviate
from the course we professed to follow, and display
against the feeble Government of Portugal the
strength of a mighty empire, to gratify some present
wish, and still less to gain a hollow popularity
among a portion of the people in this country and
Portugal. We have treaties with Portugal, and
these treaties were still in exilence. We had up
to this time exacted from the Government of Por-
tugal the fulfilment of these treaties, and this last
week we had obtained the reversal of a sentence on
a British subject, because it was a violation of our
existing treaties. With what decency, then—under
what pretext could we exact the fulfilment of trea-
ties, and not preserve that neutrality we professed ?
The Noble Lord had contrasted the influence this
country new possessed in Europe 'with what it for-
merly possessed, and lie assumed that it had fallen
from its former elevated station. He positively de-
nied the assumption. At no former period did this
country ever enjoy more respect from the Govern-
ments of Europe than at this moment. We might
have lost the approbation of those disturbed and
restless spirits who were desirous of being asin let
slip to work destruction; but by the friendsiottpcace
and tranquillity throughout Europe—by ensile friends
of order, this country was never more regfiected than
at present ; and never did this country more
thoroughly possess the Confidence of aU the Govern-
ments of Europe than at present. The Noble Mars
Buis had adverted to the unfortuntre-circumstance

which had taken place off Tereeira. He was un-
willing to enter into an explanation of the circum-
stance, because it would be found thoroughly ex-
plained by the Papers just laid on the table. The
_Noble Lord complained of our proceedings towards
t.ln- subjects of Donna Maria, and of our friendship
to Don Miguel; but he had mistaken those proceed-
ings : we had been compelled to act upon the prin-
ciples of neutrality we professed. We were bound
to act with justice towards the existing Govern-
ment of Portugal, if we expected that it should be
_ _

just to us. The Noble Lord had spoken with hor-
rer of the reported instructions given to his Ma-
jestv's Ambassador at the Court of Rio Janeiro
with respect to the marriage of Donna Maria with
Don Miguel. That union► he could easily imagine
would be looked upon by every Noble Lord in that
House with dislike and aversion. If it were a mar-
riage of parties in this country, he should agree with
them, and he could only assure the Noble Lord that
his Majesty's Government never would make a
proposition of that kind if it had not previously re-
ceived the sanction of her father. Such unions were
sot uncommon in the history of Portugal, and that
had some additional recommendations. It had re-
ceived the sanction of agentleman whose views were
much respected by the Noble Marquis. It had been
destined to take place from the time of the birth of
the Princess. It was recommended by the late
King, and adopted by his son her father. It was
not a suggestion of this country ; and if it had been
proposed by his Majesty's Ministers, he could only
say, it had not been proposed as a British ob-
ject. If the father of Donna Maria were in-
clined to dispose of his darighter, not only was
it not for us to object to it, but to support it,
as a means of restoring peace, which otherwise did

not seem possible. Such a proposal formed no part
of the principles of the Briti,h Government. The
Noble Marquis had also referred to what was doing
in the East, and wished to know if the Treaty were
to he executed ? The existing Treaties had been
found hard to execute, and he was not obliged to
prophecy as to the future events. He had never
given his opinion of the Treaty of July, but he always
had said, that we would do, and we had honestly and
zealously done, our part to carry it into execution.
We had done the best in our power, not only to
carry it into execution, according to its letter, but
according to the spirit in which it was framed.
Under the state of circumstances at present, he must
decline to give his opinion as to the probable result.
He would say, however, that it was not possible to
look at the situation of the Turkish empire, and not
feel that any great change in the situation of that
Power would have a fatal effect on the balance of
power. The Noble Lord seemed also to assume
that the new States of South America had been
neglected by the Government. That they were in-

creasing in anarchy and distress was correct, but that
could not be laid to the charge of Ministers. He
agreed with the Noble Lord in lamenting this state
of things, and he lamented it the more that our
commerce was injured by it ; but that this should be
made a matter of accusation against the Government
of the country was what he could not conceive. The
N.oble Marquis seemed to wish that we should in-
terfere to reconcile their quarrels. God forbid that
we should ever exercise our influence among them
more than we could pos,ibly avoid. The experience
we had already of the effects of our interference was
not such as to encourage us to extend it. He could
not expect for those States any thing better than a
long period of distress, before those circumstances
could prevail which lead to prosperity and tran-
quillity.

Lord HOLLAND—The Noble Earl expresses
his readiness to meet any accusations ; and he seems
disposed to consider all discussion as a matter of
accusation; but is Parliament, I ask, to be so treat-
ed ? Is confidence in Ministers so much a matter
of course, or necessity, that any refusal to place that
confidence, or any attempt to examine into the fo-
reign relations of the country, is to be considered as
an accusation against the Ministers of the Crown ?

I regretted the apathy of Parliament last year; and
nnder all the circumstances of the case, I thought it
my duty, painful and irksome though it was, to in-
stitute such an inquiry,—and how m as I met ? why
by a sort of personal appeal to me that I would not

harass the (iovernment by moving for papers which
it would then be inconvenient to produce. I have
wo wish to harass the Government. Ido not know
whom I should be harassing—whether it would be
the opposition of Oxford or the opposition of Cam-
bridge. The Noble Duke, I tecollect, when I
moved for certain information, met my motion, as
did also the Noble Earl opposite, by representing
that it would be better if that information were not

then produced ; and the Noble Duke said, in a true
Parliamentary speech, that he claimed the confidence
of Parliament, and he expected that it would sup-
port his Majesty's Ministers in not then producing
the information. lie said, with respect to Por-
tugal, there are many important points which are
not yet settled, and Parliament shall in due time
hare all the information it requires laid before it.—
What lam the Ministers since done ? They stated
that they we re panting to lay this information before
Parliament when the circumstances which then pre-
vented them should have passed away. What has
happened ? Why no communication of any sort
has been made, Does the state of things that for-
, merly prevented this information being laid before
us remain ? Then would these papers not be
granted, and then the Noble Earl would not profess
his readiness to give more papers if these are not
enough. The Noble Earl now grants the papers,
but he grants them without giving aoy explanation,
and does not grant them till they have been asked
far in the other House of Parliament. This is
done, I suppose, ices order to supply a contrast to the
Noble Earl's professions last year to his conduct this
year. Ministers stated at the beginning of last
Session, and at the close of the Session, in the
Speech delivered from the Throne, that the Govern-
ment had three objects in view—the pacification of
Greece, the establishing the relations between that
country and Turkey on a lasting and secure founda-
tion, and to preserve the repose of Europe on the •
basis of the Treaty of Peace. His Majesty's
Speech, which, when stripped of its official dig-
nity, was only the language of Ministers, de-
plored a naval victory as untoward, though the Mi-
nisters do not. seem to find the military successes of
the Greeks untoward, and they grounded their hopes
on, these --successes,- When we dissected the
Speech from the Throne, and threw sways its offi-
cial integuments, 'we found, in filet, that it stated,
there has been a great deal of bungling, we have
been got into a sad scrape, but we know how to
proceed, we do not want to say any thing of our
predecessors, but trust to us, we have great influ-
ence in all the Courts of Europe—we are well
kosown for our political talents—we are different sort
of chaps from thoze who went before us, and we
shall make all right and proper. This was the
official language, but by what measures has it been
redeemed, and where is the information that has been
laid before Parliament, that we may judge and ap-
plaud the wisdom of these Ministers ? Luckily,
our Ambassadors wereat Constantinople, and some-
thing might yet be done. A few months past Rus-
sia went to war with Turkey—l do not say con-
trary to her promises, but contrary to our expecta-
tions. There is no individual in the House—none

in the country or in the wxld—who has a greater
horror, than he who is now addressing you, of war
and of the shedding of human blood ; but I must
say, that I do not think that a war between Russia
and Turkey would be most injurious to the interests
of Great Britain, especially if the former were suc-
cessful. The Noble Earl opposite spoke of this war
as a great calamity to Europe, and particularly as a
calamity to this country, if Russia were not defeated.
Turkey Inn; been called by him, and by hi 3 Col-
leagues, " our anciea, Ally ;" and Parliament has
been this night told, I believe for first time,
that the preservation of Turkey is necessary to the
maintenance of the balance of power in Europe.
If, therefore, according to him, the pending war were
to end in the dismemberment of Europe, it would
be a most dreadful calamity. Owing to the good
managernot of this Government, it was hoped that

this war would not happen. Happen it did; and
then it was given out by Ministers that the Am-
bassadore would remain at Constantinople, and
that they would yet be able to avert the
consequences. But they came away; and
towards the end of the Session, when I moved for
papers, the Noble Secretary of State, as was well
remarked by my Noble Friend below me, admitted
that we were placed in a difficult situation by the
treaty, which, from what has fallen from him to-
day, seems to be a great and most inconvenient
load. But the Emperor of Russia thought fit to
waive his belligerent rights, and if he had not done
so, said the Noble Secretary, there would have been
an end of the treaty.—(No, no, from the Earl of
Aberdeen.)—l beg the Noble Earl's pardon. I
well remember, and I think upon reflection he will
remember, that he stated that there would have
been an end of the treaty if the Emperor of Russia
had not waived his belligerent rights. I am not
now urging what is my own opinion upon the sub-
ject ; I am only shewing how strange are those of
the Noble Earl—l know no reason why Russia
should waive her belligerent rights. Why should
she not blockade the Dardanelles ? What nonsense
it is to talk of objecting to it, and especially for
England, of all nations, to talk of it, since the
blockade of the Dardanelles differs from all other
blockades, inasmuch as those straights lead to no
port that does not belong either to Turkey or Rus-
sia. Ido not see why Russia should not exercise
her belligerent rights, and Ido not see how-it hurts
us, if she does. So convinced, however, were
Ministers that she would not, that they inserted
in the Speech from the Throne a solemn assur-
ance that they had received such assurance.
Strictly speaking in common times, after such
a declaration inserted in the King's Speech, and
after it was seen that Ministers were wrong in their
expectation, Ministers should have come down to
state on what their solemn assurance had been
founded, and in what way it had been defeated.
An assurance is given from the Throne that Russia
will waive her belligerent rights, and it is followed
by another assurance from the Noble Secretary of
State, that, because they are waived, they will be
able to carry into effect the stipulations of the
Treaty. Ido not bring this matter forward as an
accusation, but does the 'Noble Earl mean to say
that these facts make out no case for explanation to
Parliament ? According to the showing of Minis-
ters, the assurance given by a great European power
has been broken, and the assertion of her belligerent
lights destroys one of the most solemn treaties into
which this country ever entered. Are Ministers
then to wait until some question is put to them be-
fore they will condescend to give an explanation on
a subject which the public regards with so much in-
terest ? What is the precise state in which we stand ?
If we look at the Speech from the Throne last year,
and at the speech of the Noble Earl last year, I should
infer that we are no longer bound by that Treaty;
but reading the Speech from the Throne this year,
and hearing the speech of the Noble Earl this night,
I find that we are still bound by that Treaty. What
then should be done ? The Ministers of the Crown
should advise it to confide in Parliament, and to
make a full explanation ; and if this could not he
done, Ministers ought to take some opportunity of
stating why it could not he done. As to Portugal
do not wish to enter into any details, although

feel most deeply on the subject. Ido not say Out
I am prepared to bring forward any motion of cen
sure against Government, but I will assert that i❑
Portugal, as elsewhere, all our expectations have
been frustrated; and whether in consequence of our
actions Ido nut know. The result has been that,
which every man who feels for the safety, for
the credit, and for the honour of this country,
rutr=t deplore. Away with all the nonsense,
all the trash, about non-interference. `What
is the history of Great Britain with relation to
Portugal ? Let the Noble Secretary ransack the
archieves of his office, and let my Noble Friend,
whom I am glad to see near him (Lord Rosslyn),
assist him in his search, and then let them state
what has been our history, with relation to inter-

ference with Portugal. What ! have there been no
interferences about succession—no interferences
about changes of the Ministry ? It is idle, at this
time of day, to talk of non-interference. The whole
of our connection with Portugal has been a tissue of
interference. Last year, I understood two things—
one was, that Ministers were pawing for an oppor-
tunity when they could, with safety to his Majesty's
Councils, divulge the whole course of the transac-
tions ; and that, when they gave their explanation,
it would extort from Parliament applause and admi-
ration. The other point was, that this country
would adhere most strictly to the system of neu-
trality. As to the first they have not yet redeemed
their pledge, and if they wished that their conduct
now should be consistent with, awl not a contrast to
their conduct last year, they ought to be prepared to
make a full explanation to the country through Par-
liament of his Majesty's views, and of the success
of their intercession with the House of Braganza..
To be consistent, Ministers should have resisted the
production of all papers until that time arrived, and
when they could have stated their reasons for so
long withholding them. Then we come to the ques-
tion OH the system of neutrality, and I was sorry to
hear from the Noble Earl a revival of that sort of

(he must excuse the word) vulgar insinuation which
we so often heard during and after the French Re-
volution, that persons at home who took an interest
in affairs abroad were restless spirits, designing Jaco-
bins, and persons wishing only to promote confusion.
Allow me to tell the Noble Earl, that no person who
has hitherto filled the situation he occupies, has
hitherto ventured to disregard the public opinion of
Eui ope. Allow me to tell him, that if we lose the good
opinion of the universal community of Portugal, we
lose one great support of our strength and influence.
People at large look to the situation of foreign coun-
tries, according to their own means and information.
They do not merely judge of them by the despatches
to Ministers (in which, God knows, there is much
less truth than in any other source of information ;
for, from the beginning of history, they have been
little better than varnished lies), so that nothing can
be more absurd or more dangerous than to disregard
public opinion. But for the great. and glorious mea-
sure we have just passed at the instance of the Noble
Duke, I should look, 1 must say, with consterna-
tion at the present state of public opinion-1 do not
refer to the opinion of Mr. Metteinich, or of Mr.
Nesselrode, but to the opinion of the people of this
country and of the civilized world, which, for the
last two years, has most materially changed, as far
as regards this country. Let the Noble Secretary
appeal on this point to the guests he entertains at
his table, and none but the basest adulators will
deny the truth of what I say—l challenge him in
his blunt, plain, straight-forward manner, to appeal
to them whether the change of a hick I speak has not
taken place in every country from St. Petersburgh
to Naples. Returning to the point of non-inter-
ference, I may remark, that it is somewhat new to
say that this country is not to meddle with the af-
fail s of Portugal as regards the question of the suc-
cession. What have been our treaties with Spain
and France ? That is the very argument which
Louis the Fourteenth used, and which Lord Boling-
broke, who was no Vhig neither, confuted.—
It had been said that we must not alter
the fundamental laws of France or Spain, to
which he replied, with great wit and eloquence, that
we are not supposed to know what are the funda-
mental laws of France or Spain ; " but this I know
(he added) that it is not for the interest of this
country that the Crowns of France and Spain should
be placed upon one head. So I say, that it is not
for the interest of this country that Don Miguel
should be King of Portugal. We have declared no
hostility, and yet we have withdrawn our Ambassa-
dor. I do not know that we have any right, ac-
cording to the practice of nations, to take such a
stet); and on the question of neutrality I must say
that I never read a more heart-breaking account
than the narrative of what passed at - the island of
Terceira,—( Hear, hear.)—I should be sorry to ap-
ply to that transaction the term of an untoward
event," for it seems to me nothing less than a gross

• • ti
and abominable breach .01:% the law of nations.—
(Hear, hear.)—lf I thought so before, lam doubly
convinced of it now, after the recent attempted ex-
planation. Many points of that explanation are ca-
pable of dispute; but granting them all, the case is
one reflecting the deepest...disgrace. The Noble
Earl asked, " Will you use the mighty power of this
country against a feeble Sovereign ?" I ask, if you
will not use it against a feeble Sovereign, will you
wse it here ? The island of Terceira was the terri-
tory of a neutral Power ; and it admitted the autho-
rity of the Queen of Portugal, not only defacto but
dejure. But no matter whether defacto or de jure,
it was part of her dominions; but she was then re-
siding in this country in so helpless arid forlorn a
condition, as to excite the commiseration of the So-
►ereign, and of the whole people of Great Britain.
Are we, then, to look for nice distinctions about fact
and right among the civilians of Doctors' Com-
mons, in order to justify an act of cruelty and oppres-
sion ? What was done at Terceira might form a
ground of remonstrance with the Emperor of Bra-
zil ; but what reparation could be made to the man
who was killed ? It seems to me a very doubtful
point whether you had a right to prevent their sail-
ing from our port : but when once they had sailed,
what jurisdiction had you and what right to pursue
them over the high seas, and to enforce obedience to

your commands ? I do not see a Noble Duke in
his place who has shown much interest on the sub-
ject of wool, but I may take a humble illustration
from the laws relating to that article. During a
long period in the last century, a very foolish and
absurd law (perhaps these epithets will savour a
little too much of the principles of free trade) ex-
isted, by which it was felony, punishable with
death, to carry wool out of the country. If a
Frenchman were caught in the fact of exporting
wool at Plymouth, well and good—take him and
hang him. Ido not say that this was often done
under that old law, but it might be done while he
!was in the King's dominions; but what pretence
should you have for following him upon the high
seas, and for threatening to sink his ship if he did
not submit, under the batteries of Brest ? Sup-
posing, therefore, that the wretched but loyal
Portuguese, who sought an asylum on your shores,
committed an offence cognizable to the laws of the
country, they might be punished while they re-
mained in it; the offence in posse against Don
Miguel could not be so great as the offence in ease
against the power which they came to serve,
and when once they were out of port you had
no right to enforce by the thunder of your arms,
on the high seas, your fanciful notions of justice and
equity. It is idle, in my view, to argue such a point ;
and I say, therefore, with relation to the affair at
Terceira, that all the explanations hitherto given
have only plunged the King's Ministers deeper in
the mire of that transaction. The Queen of Portu-
gal was received here and acknowledged ; and I am
glad to have the Noble Duke and his colleagues ad-
mitting the power of a King de facto, although it be
in favour of such a being as Don Miguel. Let him
recollect that such a doctrine supports the opinion
of those who contended in its favour during the
french Revolution and after it; let him recollect
that the admission of a Government de facto at that
time would have saved this country from all the
evils she is now suffering. I am not prepared on
this account to say that I would not acknowledge a
de facto King of Portugal, unless it were connected
with direct injury to the interests of Great Britain.
I should like to know what is the nature and the
result of the negoeiations with the head of the
House of Braganza, and I trust that no such pro-
posal as that alluded to by the Noble Marquis below
me would come from Ministers ; I was glad to hear
the Noble Earl say that it would never be a British
proposal. With due allowance for oratorical free-
dom, and for that latitude of speech which we are
all allowed, I may remark that I was somewhat
surprised to hear my Noble Friend below me (though
my connection with him will hardly justify me in
calling him so), recollecting the connection which
must always be dear to him, state that the proposal
of such a marriage came from a late Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Canning). We know, indeed,
that in Catholic countries, dispensations fur such
unions may be obtained from the Pope, and it is
not on the ground of consanguinity that the people
of England object to the marriage; they are averse
to it, because the hand which Don Miguel would
pledge at the altar is soiled with blood—be-
cense he has been guilty of treason and
usurpation—because he has shown contempt and
disdain for all that is held good, honourable, and
sacred among the rest of mankind. Therefore they
feel disgust that an innocent and helpless female
should be placed within his grasp, and think that
the promotion of such an union would plunge their
country in the lowest gulf of disgrace and infamy.
If, therefore, Mr. Canning contemplated such a mar-
riage, though torn from us too soon, he fortunately
did riot live to witness how Don Miguel was capable
of breaking the most solemn promises and engage-
ments that could be entered into in the face of Eu-
rope, or contemplated by the mind of man. I, for
one, cannot acquiesce in this doctrine of non-inter-
ference. I think the historian will say that Don
Miguel would never have obtained ascendancy in
Portugal, but for the assistance of England and
Austria—he will say further, that the presence of
a British force enabled him to accomplish his usur-
pation ; and I will maintain even now, that if the
same pains had been taken to shew the friends of
Don Miguel that we disapproved of their actions
that were taken to give him countenance in his
treacherous enterprizes;he never could have attained
his power, or if attained, he would have tottered
on his throne. I have already detained the House
longer than I intended, and shall only remark in
conclusion, that I shall most heartily rejoice if the
Noble Duke is able to add to his great merits on
the score of home politics a claim for respect and
applause in connection with the conduct of our fo-
reign relations.

The Duke of WELLINGTON—The Noble
Lord has complained that Government has not vo-
luntarily laid upon the table certain information re-
garding the foreign transactions of the country. I
believe there is no instance in which, where it was
not thought necessary to call for a vote of the
House, the Minister of the Crown has come down
with such information. The usual practice, I ap-
prehend, has been, that when the Minister wishes
to take the opinion of Parliament, he does not pre-
sent the documents before he asks for the expression
of that opinion. They are, therefore, not brought
forward, excepting when a vote is to be given, or
when Parliamentary grounds for their production
have been produced by some Noble Lord. I say
this, because I have anxiously, most anxiously,
wished that the House should have full knowledge
of the transactions at Terceira. I have wished it
since the commencement of the Session, when the
Noble Baron stated it to be his intention to bring for-
ward a motion on the subject; but calumny affords
no around for a Minister to come clown for informa-
tion, and to require the expression of an opinion
upon it. The Noble Lord contends that we ought
to have brought forward all the information regard-
ing Portugal ; but I beg the House to recollect
that it refers to still pending negociations, and that
Portugal unfortunately remains in that state in which
we found her two years ago. Such Papers as could
properly be produced have this day been laid upon
the table, and were moved forabout afortnight ago in
the other House. We have presented them under the
conviction that it will be found that in every part of
the transaction to which they relate we have done
our duty to our Sovereign and our country. The
Noble Lord has thought proper to ridicule the idea
of neutrality and non-interference with the internal
affairs of Portugal, but I defy him to shew a single
instance within the last century and a half, in which
we have interfered with the internal affairs of Por-
tugal
_ by arms. I say, that notwithstanding our
treaties with Portugal go to every point of interfe-
reuce, both as regards her internal affairs and her
Colonies, yet, that since the commencement of the
last century, it has not been the practice so to con-
strue the treaties, but only with reference to pro-
tection in case of foreign invasion. If the Noble

~`~~C-_

f~~~.
.~
~'

Lord will be kind enough to refer baek to the
events of the last ten years, both as they regard
commotions in Portugal, and the separation of her
Colonies, he will find that upon this principle Great
Britain has acted. Did we interfere in the instance
of the rebellion in the Brazils ? We did not, though
we were bound to do so by the terms of subsisting
treaties. Did we interfere with the subversion of
the Monarchy of Portugal in the time ofKing John ?
We did not.—Did we interfere during the internal
commotions In the year 1826 ? We did not. In
that particular case, I say positively, and I defy the
Noble Lord to contradict me, the Commanding
Officer of our troops had distinct orders to refrain
from all interference with the internal affairs of Por-
tugal. He was directed to oppose a foreign enemy
only; with this exception, that he was to protect the
persons of the Royal Family.
Lord HOLLAND—What is that but interference ?
The Duke of WELLINGTON—Dees the Noble
Lord mean to compare interference for the protection
of the Royal Family with interference for the purpose
of effecting a revolution, or even a change of Minis-
try ? I am convinced the Noble Lord, with his
usual candour, will not say that the two cases can be
compared.
Lord HOLLAND—They are just the same.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—If he looks at
the instructions to the Commanding Officer, he will
find that I have under-stated the matter: he was
only to interfere in case of an invasion by Spain, or
of danger to the person of the Sovereign. According
to all examples, all precedents in modern times, we
were bound to remain neuter during the contest in
Portugal; but the Noble Lord asserts that the uni-
versal Portuguese nation is opposed to the present
Sovereign. Upon that point lam able to give the
Noble Lord the most positive contradiction.
Lord HOLLAND—I never said that they were.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—I beg the Noble
Lord's pardon ; I understood him to say so, and I
am able to give his statement the most direct con-
tradiction.
Lord HOLLAND—The Noble Duke mistakes
what I said, but I shall be able to explain.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—My authority
for contradicting the Noble Lord is the Marquis
Palmella himself.—( Hear, hear.)—We know pretty
well what passed at Oporto: what occurred was
said to be occasioned by our recognition of the
blockade—during which blockade, be it observed,
these gentlemen quitted the army and came to Eng-
land. For what reason did they quit the army at
Oporto, the only efficient force to restore the Mo-
narchy for which they contended ? Their reason
was neither more nor less than this—that they
found the whole population of the country against
them, and in favour of Don Miguel. They there-
fore felt, and very properly, in my opinion, that it
was of no use to maintain a military contest. But,
says the Noble Lord, we ought to have interfered,
at all events, to force down the throats of the people
of Portugal a Sovereign inconsistent with their
wishes. Surely that cannot be the doctrine of the
Noble Lord, and it certainly is not a doctrine I
would recommend this country to adopt in a contest
between two parties, each claiming the Government,
Those who quitted Portugal, as 1 have mentioned,
sought an asylum here, and it was naturally to be
supposed that they would conduct themselves so
that every body would be satisfied with their con-
duct ; but we soon found that they were here as a
body of troops; that they received pay, had their
officers, and, moreover, that other forces were ex-
pected to join them from Germany. These facts
appear in the papers upon the table. We know,
likewise, that the object of these troops was to form
an expedition to the Azores, part of the kingdom of
Portugal. We were expected too to convoy them
to their destination ; but I maintain that we should
not have done our duty if we had not protested against
such an expedition. One of the grossest frauds
was then committed that could be perpetrated by a
diplernatic servant; a fraud in spite of the vigilance
of my Noble Friend (Lord Aberdeen). We re-
quired that the men at Plymouth should be sepa-
rated from their officers, and that they should be
quartered in certain proportions in different villages.
I want to know whether this was any very unrea-
sonable request ? Certainly not ; and we had a
right to expect that the plan proposed would be
cheerfully carried into execution. The Portuguese
did no such thing; as appears by the papers, they
obtained arms—on a fal+e pretence embarked—on a
false pretence procured clearances for Rio Janeiro,
and set sail for Terceira. They set sail with the
positive information, that if they went there, they
would not be permitted to land. Then, says the
Noble Lord—" admitting all you allege to be true, it
was a most horrible act of cruelty—you had no right
to prevent the troops from going to Terceira." I
am informed that the Law of Nations is otherwise;
aid I say that they were acting in breach of the Law
of Nations by remaining an organised body at Ply-
mouth, when they were ordered by the Ministers of
this country to disperse. They were further guilty
of a breach of the Law of Nations in forming in this
country a plan of attack upon the dominions of a
Sovereign (whether de facto or de jure has nothing
to do with the question) to whom we were engaged
by treaty. They resorted to every artifice and subter-
fuge that could enter the mind of man—first ask-
ing for convoy, next for safe conduct, then taking
out false clearances, and finally sailing for a destina-
tion where they knew their landing would be pre-
vented if it were attempted. Such being the case,
and knowing how much the matter has been misre-
presented in every part of Europe, it is Hot extraor-
dinary that I should wish for an early discussion, in
order that all calumnies might be removed. 'I he
next subject to which the Noble Lord adverted was
the state of our relations in the East of Europe;
and here I must remark, that we now stand pre-
cisely in the situation in which we stood last session
that is to say, the Treaty not having been carried
into execution, we are unable to give explanations
of any part of the transactions connected with
it. 'We have done every thing in our power to
carry that Treaty into execution, strictly accord-
ing both to its letter and spirit, and we have made
great sacrifices for the purpose, and 1 am con-
vinced, when the documents are produced, the
Noble Lord will himself admit that there is no
reason to find fault with any thing that was
done. He has adverted to some statements
in Speeches from the Throne, and to others in
speeches from my Noble Friend ; but as to one
point, his recollection appears to have failed him en-
tirely. He says, that when the King's speech was
delivered in the last Session, we imagined that our
Ambassadors would not leave Constantinople ;
whereas, they had, in truth, withd-awn before Par- I
!lament assembled. He adds, that 'e expressed the
strongest expectation that war wood not be 'the
consequence of the Treaty of the 6th of July. Wheri
he examines the documents on the while, he Svili
find it positively denied that the war ha- been
,tb
consequence of that treaty ; the present wassis 034
tirely owing to different circumstances. .'„;bid
then known, indeed, what was passing at St peso
burgh, we might have been aware that wst sesol
;
be declared ; but we had not themolistFdriateniendt
,stwoeudi
have ,
of the
anyh knowledgeekind, norsva
ofits s it possibleprobailib ff Thea!ewe si
?Ole,
Lord next observed, that myii
itto
sbelligerentob
in the last Session, that we were linable to carryexecution the Treaty of the 6;° of 461 Y, because the
Emperor of Russia waived tits
enabling, us to catry
the
we cannot now explain v-:set, was the fact; buts
suppose the Noble Lord .nay imagine thai there nes
some
eTsruebasty intoequetlt aerxra,ceuefinsoneuC-
, although without he
naval co-operation of a belligerent power. Al I
ask is, that until ve are in a condition to explainthe
whole circumstarices, the House will give us cedit
for having acted fairly by the Treaty, and for hying
done nothing iecOmilitent with the honour T cha-
racter of the eajiStsirs in endeavouring to wry it
into execution&Oil'e4reilOar.)—The Note Mar-
quis who co, mencetr the 'discussion was ;eased to
reprove us,- as if we bad` been backward it carrying
into execution the measures now ccmpleed in the
Mediterrar salt, which have deprived tie Turkish I
power of ,he peszeeeion of the Moiea. If he will be

A ilaaa

fi v~ t.

1

so kind as to look at the details of the transactiot
he will see, that though the blockade, for certo
reasons, did certainly not produce all the col
quences expected from it, yet that it produced such
a consequence—that the Pacha of Egypt foundn
necessary to agree to a convention for the evacust
by his troops of the fortresses of the Mores i
his possession. In order to carry into execution one
of the articles of the Treaty, it was thought thatfe
land expedition should be sent to the Morea; it
will be readily admitted, that for this purpose G,Te‘c
Britain has not the same resources as his ivi n
Christian Majesty. As the King of France offers
his services, it was thought right that the
should avail themselves of them, rather than
until each could furnish its proportion. 14`:
now gone through nearly all the paints urged 1),
the Noble Lord, with the exception of the negoto
tiona with Brazil. Those negociations, like other!'
are not yet brought to a conclusion ; but there ',
no indisposition in Government, at the proper din!'
to communicate to Parliament all the particuls;
necessary to elucidate transactions in that guart
of the globe. He reproaches us with having in.
tended to effect a marriage between the Infant Don
Miguel, and his niece, the Queen of Portugal, p°11;
na Maria. What we felt on that subject was, in
anxious desire to reconcile differences between cOO
tending branches of the House of Braganza.
saw no chance of concluding them but by sot'
e
compromise of the rights of both parties—the on_
enjoying the right of succession, and the other the
right which had been given by the vote of then
Cortes of Portugal. As Ministers of the Cro""
of England we should not have done our duty if ''ve
Lead not concurred with other Powers in endeavouh
to conciliate; and the marriage having been calc`
proposed by the Father of the Queen of Portugal'
it seemed a delicate matter for us to say, when the
Father had abandoned the claims of his daughter for
the sake of conciliating his brother, that the mar-
riage, the means proposed for effecting the object'
should not take place ; under the circumstances, We
should be the last to oppose it, as we should have betas
the last to propose it. But the Noble Lord is plea°,
to say, that all that passed at Vienna and elsewhere
originated in this country; that I positively deny'
it is not true that Don Miguel went to Portue
through the instrumentality of Great Britain;
proposition to make him Regent originated here; "
came from Brazil, and from thence was sent in
Vienna, and Brazilian officers were charged with
the execution of the plan. It is perfectly true that
our Ambassador was called upon to be present on
the occasion, to arrange both with reference t°
Don Miguel's voyage to Portugal, and the mea-
sures to be adopted when he arrived there; but it
is not true that he entered into any engagement, ex'
cepting merely as as he was a witness of what
passed. Having gone thus far in answer to the
Noble Lord, I have only to add, that had I beet'
aware of what was intended to be done to-day,
should perhaps have been better prepared wit'
some filets; but as far ae my memory goes I have
supplied them. First, I contend that Government
are not to blame for not producing information at an
earlier period. Secondly, that they are not to blame
for any of the transactions at Terceira; and thirdly:
that in maintaining neutrality between Portugal si!
Brazil, we hive only followed the course before
pursued in affairs of the same description. All ,
shall say in addition is, that we are at all time
ready to meet inquiry.
Lord HOLLAND—I throw myself on the itt.
dulgence of the House, and as I shall confine nir
self strictly to explanation, I am sure I shall only
occupy a short time. If I were to go into all the
points on which the Noble Duke has misrepresented
me—unintentionally, I admit, from the bottom of
my heart--I should be obliged to claiai a much
longer indulgence. The point on which lam par'
ticularly anxious ia, that where he supposes I said
that the universal community of Portugal was
against Don Miguel. True it is I might use thi
words " universal community," but I spoke 0'g
the degree of interest and influence we ought
to preserve in Portugal. I am afraid the effect
of these transactions, whether right or wrong,
has been to estrange the universal community of
Portugal from England; and I believe our conduct
has sunk us in the eyes even of the Miguelites. 10
that body we never had many friends, and the large
majority are governed by a hatred of our policy and
institutions. I believe the object of those who poi'
seas the greatest abilities is ultimately to effect
union of Portugal under a Bourbon Prince, and the
abolition of the line of policy pursued by what is
called the Apostolieal Faction in Europe. I believe
they think that the power of Great Britain is less to
be dreaded than might be imagined. On the whole
question of interference I could not have made
myself understood to the Noble Duke ; for I can
admit all he says, with one exception only, and yet
my argument remains untouched. I say that we
have interfered in Portugal—not by arms indeed, but
in the same way in which we interfered with other
Powers—in the regulation of their internal affairs.
If we had not interfered to oppose Dou Miguel, we
should have been successful; and the Noble Duke
adds an exception to the order of non-interference
given to the commander of our troops ; he was to in-
terfere for the protection of the person of the
Prince, but he was not to interfere for the pro-
tection of the people. If the Prince were exposed
to peril in consequence of his tyranny, the British
troops were to be immediately called into action;
but if the people were attacked—their dearest rights
invaded by the Prince, and their persons exposed to
death, torture, or imprisonment—the British army
was to stand by and patiently suffer and counte-
nance the infliction. I should like to know what
would have been the state of this country if the
same argument had been applied to it by foreign
Powers in the reigns of Charles I. and, James II.?
Yet, guilty as they were, it is npou those
Princes to compare them with Don Miguel.: I do
not call for such interferenceetwAe Britiph,Corn-
mander was to exercise ; an4rsy.ll4o.etl;cpapular feel-
ing was outraged, I would pogreginrchim to:say to
the usurper—" Fear nothiagiatibtiadthintonearth—
do what you will, we williiotiprevont yats—:do what
you will, we will protect you." Notwithstanding
all that the. Nob:e Duke IT satisfied that,
but for the Council of Vieiyia and London, Don
Miguel would not h*All;4ble to accomplish his
purpose of usuipatfoft'Od reiSiOn. On some other
points I acttrilt that 'tiksi Duke hus made out a
fair Parliamentary cas% ppa that it is in fact the
satut.which he stated last year. There is one more
point,on which I do not seem to have been clear:
tvhcial sakiCi. that last year Ministers held out hopes
that, theteLwoultl be no war, and yet that a war
brake 604.4 did not refer to the war in the Mores,
butrint 'War between Russia and Turkey. In
thwitirita4Speech we were assured that there would
be ntNtdelilliar, and afterwards, when a question was
Ole yitrui"the subject, it was said that, although the
jfiefore expressed were considerably fainter,
.st.Difp ill t was thought that hostilities would be
avoided. I thank the House for having indulged
we with this explanation, and I was particular':}
rnxious not to be misunderstood on the point of the
Popularity of Don Miguel. Although I do not
(now much of the people of Portugal, I believe that
,heir opinions are very much divided on the question
of succession,—of this lam sure, that there is a very
formidable anti-Anglican party.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—When I re-
ferred to the instructions to the Cominanding Officer
o
o
t
dntfn
hossaoohrioaefrofrideel
tvycmietntolsKkhlhiotprtnlcerieeitdiletnoei
alFskgf:lnevpino,frisssoeforeAtetrtc:fsehoviensoierafspn) interference
ors
.trTltraheausecAnrt
tkdlf)Ayet:
pemJatr
hr:ab,an;rl
w:de
esav the
when
were we
' 1 the Treaty
thy' it 'would nuogt-
aware that
os
ur. and
That
e xhporpees s ewitsdogurroulropiteheoe
(Awn from the Turkish
of the sixth July, though we
the Ambassadors had with('
fnteti
eNctohnvtoch.
tehhipfhel
toeceyhsr%
s‘smoh,lee‘,
eraovrhlsttlsa:a. triregdchseedtretbatiheaesrlei(
ueafellno,d,
,itoe:be:P,trtlieoiee correctly
tnddfosirt alludedrt gr (ali
latteri
mot
ia: thenaisand means,
teewor
notioloepttrs

~ I! 3j

.~

capital. Weafterwards found that war was expected
upon other grounds, and we might in the first in-
stance indulge an expectation that extremities would
still be avoided. We found that matters did pro-
ceed to those extremities ; and when we found it,
we came down and stared it to the House.
Viscount GODERICH was ready to take his
full share of blame for not bringing this subject for-
,
-ward at an earlier period, and he rejoiced now to
hear that every satisfaction was likely to be afforded.
:He disputed the uniformity of the course contended
for by the Noble Duke, with regard to laying papers
Upon the table, but admitted that interference with
the States of South America was impossible, and
that all we had to do was to take care that other
powers did not acquire an influence which might ul-
timately be employed against us. As to Turkey, it
might no doubt be highly prejudicial to produce do-
cuments, or even to give verbal information, while
negoriations were still pending. While he allowed
the propriety of engaging a body of French troops
to co-operate with this country for the evacuation of
the Morea, he thought it a very strong measure in
..`f execution of the Treaty of July G ; because it cer-
r,- tainly was an act of hostility, although the Turkish
Government had not thought right so to consider it,
-;. and had therefore taken it very quietly. The eva-
'',"•euation of the Mores by the Turks and Egyptians
was a great practical point gained. To this mea•
sure Sir E. Codrington had mainly and most meri-
toriously contributed. The explanation of the
Noble Duke regarding Terceira was not satisfactory,
inasmuch as that island did not belong to Don
Miguel, and had not acknowledged his authority.—
It adhered to the Queen of Portugal ; and he could
not see what right this country had to prevent her
sending troops thither if she thought fit, for the pur-
pose of its protection against the usurper, should he
make an attack upon it. He apprehended it was an
error, to say that the proposed marriage of the
Queen and Don Miguel originated with the
late Mr. Canning ; he believed that the sug-
gestion first came from Don Pedro, who had
originally abdicated the Throne of Portugal on two
conditions. I. That his daughter should be married
to his brother. 2. That the people of Portugal
should receive a Constitution. The objection on
the ground of relationship between uncle and niece
Was no business of ours. Matters had, however,
since materially changed : Don Miguel had violated
every compact by which honest men allowed them-
selves to be bound, and took the oaths to the Con-
stitution and to his brother, with the intention of
breaking them as soon as a favourable opportunity
should present itself. In his opinion the course
which Don Miguel had pursued throughout the
Whole of the affair was so entirely in violation of
his promise, and so injurious to the interests of this
country, as well as to every throne iu Europe, that
if it were wise in this country to interfere, we
should have a right to do so, were it even by force ;
but if, out of defere,ice to the opinions of others, we
declined this sort of interference, as least he did not
see that we were under any obLigation to interfere in
such a way as to prevent the subjects of her whom
We acknowledged to be the Queen of Portugal going
to a territory which really belonged e:o her, where
her sovereignty was acknowledged. Tizis was the
view in which- the matter struck him at present—
the papers might satisfy him that he was fe, error,
but he did not think that he could bring himse:f to
believe that the affair of Terceira was one on which
they ought to bestow their unqualified approbation,
as his Noble Friend had assured them at the be-
ginning of the Session he could show to be the case.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said, that with re-
spect to the marriage of Donna Maria with Miguel,
;110 plan had originated with Don John VI.; and
-lion Pedro, Mr. Canning, arid Prince Metternich
had simultaneously concurred in thinking it an ad-
visable measure. The Noble Lord had asked how
We could prevent the subjects of the Queen of Por-
tugal going to an island which acknowledged her
authority, and was under her dominion ? But the
race was not exactly so. It was true that one of
the garrisons had declared in favour of Donna Maria,
but the population of the Island was unanimously
In favour of Don Miguel, and, in fact, a civil war
Prevailed in the Island; and if the Noble Lord
meant, that it was not a breach of neutrality to
allow an expedition to be fitted out from this coun-
t'', to join either one party or the other under such
circumstances, he must take a very different view
from him (Lord Aberdeen) of the duties of
neutrality.
The Marquis of CLANRICARDE replied. He
did not see how the Government could complain
fnat they had been taken by surprise on this sub-
4-ect, because the whole Session had been suffered
to elapse without the question being agitated in that
Mouse, although he had fully expected that some
Noble Lord would have adopted that course. Find-
-4 ,ng that such was not the case, he had ventured to
tlndertake it, though he was aware that the task
tnight have fallen to much more able hands, and
that intention lie had taken care to notify to the
tNoble Earl (Aberdeen) on the previous day.
Their Lordships then adjourned, at Half-pas
'-fight, till Monday.