The Sun.
London, England, 1845-04-08 00:00:00

the Hon. Geztleman to whom he alluded, in which-.he
proposed this free trade which he now opposed. He
thoso 'kontteinen to enrymvenrl3 lead their
eon:;tituencies to, think that the."corn-iaWs should not
instead of making theln•-befireve that Ministers would
adhere to this or t•J that' policy, that they may ptofess to
pursi4e party piirpo..s,e!:,. They told them of the na-
tioiiaNlebt, but they never td.d them that they were
the persons. who had all the benefit of contracting that
debt. The debt was contracted in the time of war, when the
articles necessary for war purposes were high, and now
they wanted to continuezthdse high prices. The profits
went into the pockets of the landed proprietors; and Mr.
D. Hume told them, that when a man was :said to be in
the posse: Sion of an estate worth 50,0001., he was also sup .
po.ed .to possess 50,000 L consols ; but instead of that
they lisfed up to their incomes, mortgaged the*.proper-
ties, and now they •mu,tr. yy.:Eaeasures to keep up the
prices of corp,the same a 5,. they were in the time of war.

It was most ridiculous" for landed proprietors to come
,ias.o.ihaeliduse and say that they ought to be exempted
from taxation. They paid no rents at all ; they received
-their lands subject to those burtherii, and they ought to•
pay them. They.had •the torn-laws, and `were sheltered
by Court patronage and. place. They had all the pick-
ings of the Court, and had the whole patronage of the
Ministers. Their acres not only produced corn, but also
pension§ and sinecures.—(Cheers and laughter.) Acres
were a great security, a sort of certificate by which.
they obtained plac,.s and pensions ; he would ask .them
if.they thought that the time was not approaching when
the mercantile portion of the community would not ask.
to. be placed in the same position as that in which' they
were. He would call on them no limgef to interrupt the
public business by claims whichcould not-be stipPorted.;-
he saw no grounds on this occasion for resisting the pro%
. ,
posal of her,Majestv's Gov,,rnment.
STAFFORD O'BRIEN said that the corn-law
League had been unsuccessful foi..ebtitt years, and
how they were trying What • they could do by
'taking .up the Church And the Court. Wishing
them ;success—("Hear," and
„Janghter)-•-their " Hear,
hear; 'commenced too Aeon': Wishing them success
qual to their past success, he would observe, that al-
though the Hon. Gentleman was a prophet, he could
not-declare himself the prophet of a fulfi,led prediction.
-He said that the agricultural portion of the community
were displeased with their Members, but he had merely
made an allusion to an article which:appeared in the
newspapers. Let him show them hew these constituen-
cies were inclining to .the principles of the Corn-law-
Letigue;=(Hear, hear.) He came down to the House
for the purpose of opposing the proposition, and it would'
seem that the speech of the Hon. Gentleman
induce him to alter his intention: He recoininended; that
the proceeds of certain taxes-shonklAflay the expenv§
of the Bill, not One expeuse.YiliiCh he could.acdount
for., , These were4he same principles. as those...brotight
btfore the House by the MembviforSomerietshire: He
did not think:when a prormi&n.had.once been brought
tieforj; the House, and bad • -been- 'decided upon by.
large majerity,% that it. was-forwarding the publiC busi-
nes.% 'amain to brill.. it before the House. Was the question'
.
Of locaLtaiation to be discussed: or not? it were not
to be fully discussed,' then the" should say that it was
terrupting the bu§inpss.-61' this House,„ and keeping the
eoporrin-SUipense, • but .if they. only entered upon its
idi.§"cussion flvithout going throUgh it, then, he should say.
that rherwould prepuice tie question in the opinion of
the country, and it, would not be doing justice to its
.merits.,. • He should decline to stipport the proposition of
his. Hon. Friend. He had listened very attentively to
•

the Hon. Member in the' hope Of hearini him urge some
argument in support of his proposition, but he had lis-,
to:led-in-Vain. for lie had
.heard -nOne. But even sup 7
posiag . that he (Mr.' O'Brien) *di,l acquiesce in this
proposition, the Hon. MeMber. had not stated by, what_
means he intended to carry it out; so that, in fact, even
if it were
.affirmed by the House, all they would get by-
it was a mere proposition for a general scramble.—,(Hear,
hear.) He saw thejlonourable Member for Montrose
laughing; but he (Mr. O'Brien) - knew very well that
that Hon. Member would not allow 'this proposition to
be carried out without making a very hard scramble.
Therefore, even if the House should give the Hon.
Member all that he asked, not the least use would be
the result of the proposition ; and for these reasons' he
(Mr. O'Brien) felt compelled to . vote against his prdpo;
sition.—(Hear, hear.) He did think the Hon: Member.
was rather unwise in persevering in his proposition, and
he would get but few to vote with him ; but even if he
did get a few more than he expected, the result wail&
only prejudice his case. For these reasons he (Mr.
O'Brien) would give the propo4ition his most hearty op-
position.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. F. T. BARING did not tynkrihat the remission
or this tax would at -all result in "the beneficial effects
anticipated by the -Government. Recently he, and
others at this side of the House, agreed, • from the
-financial difficulties of the .country; to the imposi-
tion of a tax, but which they,. at the same time,
could not but feel was • a harsh, unequal, and
heavy-tax.—(Hear, hear.) But then the result of this
was the creation of a surplus, which was alleged as a
reason for the remission of the present tax ; and now the
House was called on to say that this was a fit and proper
mode of applying this surplus.... It the 'House agreed to
this resolution, to false Off"this tax, it would be impossi-
ble to renio.ve other and more oppressive ones.—(clear;hear.) 15ople out of doors expressed their surprise at
this proceeding, and asked; "-What the Government
meant by throwing away 250,0Q01. by the reduction of
the auction duties ?"—(Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of
the Exchequer spoke of the inconvenience of the tax ;
but he (Mr. Baring) was surprised that that Right Hon.
Gentleman had not made out a better case against it than
he had ; and, indeed, he knew no tax against which a
good speech could not very easily be made.—(Laughter.)
But in the present case he should say that before this
proposition was made, inquiry should have been insti-
tuted in order to ascertain if there was no other
tax the removal of which would tend to confer
more general benefit to the public at large
than this.—(Hear, hear.) He would ask why not
propose a reduction of the duty upon butter or
tallow, or many other articles of general consump-
tion amongst the poorer classes ?—(Hear, hear)—Hon.
Members cheered but he would ask them would they do
it ?—(Hear, hear.) He would vote against the remis-
sion of this tax, in order that he might afterwards haie
an opportunity of voting in favour-of the remission bf
others, the removal of which -Weida be more'beneficial
to the country, while:the 'remission of that now tinder
discussion 'Might been left for a 'future
(Hear.) lf a tax was to be imposed and that it Ve4s
deemed to
bejust, the best proof of its justice would be
the .7fact.that.,there were no exemptions ; but on the
other hand,.the great proof of ,the hardships of some
litxo;inaposed was the number of cases of exemption„-:.-
(Hear) - Now he would ask was the tax proposed te be
remoted-one that had been falling .olf? He could
'show- that it had • not, • - -for :--• he —.had before
him documents by which it appetred that
in the year-1831 this • tax ainntin.fed to 2,33-,000/., while,
the average amount for 'the- last. , three years was'
294;0001:;
which pro%edit to-be it"gradually increasing
(Hear.) He would wtsh~ very Much that the
Ctimmittee would Cot,isidei. VaOher there was no
oiufldtheotqudeostmioonrewgere
liotehreari taX,theHreemhiasdsionno
good. ,
find-such a tax ; for, inirance there was the duty upon
9,dfov.'ubh.tfethhal
referred :to twelve honest
„men they would very easily
soap.—(leer.) In fact there- was no article so much
used ainongst the poor as seap—th ere was no article so
frauds were continually practiced in
necessary to their comfort, but the duty upon it was so
high that its menu-
factiire.--(Hear.) Surely; :theta; the poor would be
mare benefited by the emciVal of-this duty thau that
-on-anctions. He had before bitnii report from several
counties •in England, -by Which. it appeared that two-
thirds.. Of the income. 0f..-the labouring classes
was spent .in the . article.- of .soap; and how much
df that_ sum went into. the pockets of the Government in
the. Shape of duty?—(Hear,.hear.) The duty upon soap
was about 141. 14s. per ton,.or -at the rate of thirty per
cent: profit to the revriatte,—(Hear.) Now the auction
duties did not in any way affect manufactures or trades-
m63, while the duty upon soap had a very serious effect
in. keeping up the price of very many other articles of
general,censumption. There were many other taxes of
a nature equally oppressive which he could mention, and
each of which it would be much more useful to remove
than- this duty on auctions.—(Hear, hear.) The con-
sumption of soap was equal to about 71b. per head of
the- entire populationy while that of sugar was about
151b5., even in the worst times ; and surely, then, would
it slot be -a great public benefit to let the poorer classes
ha.velhese articles at the lowest possible price. Indeed he
could quote a very high authority to bear him out in his
assertion with regard to soap. In the year 1837, when
it was proposed to reduce the duty on newspapers, and
thereby remove a tax on knowledge, the present-Chan-
cellor. of the Exchequer ,made a most argumentative
speech in favour of the remission of the duty on soap,
and-showed how much- the poor would -benefit by it.--
(afieems.) On the whole, 'he (Mr. Baring) ,did think,
and he believed -the country would-agree with him, that
a much better-use could be very easily made of 250,0001.
than by applying it to theremission of the auction duty;
and he would give the propesitiori lijs negative.. •
J: GRAHAM Said, he rose forthe.purpose of Fe-
plying to the observations :Of-hii Hen. Friend opposite,
relative, to certain measures iVhich had originated with
WM., One measure whioh . he. bad.proposed would ulti-
mately, he was convinced, cause a material saving to the
ratepayers'. There was another .and.. most- important
measure which he had proposed,. He • alluded to the
proposed alteration of- the •law-of settlement. • This was
not the time to dis'cuss that measure; but he would say
that it would tend. very Materially to the
of the classes. But if that measure shoUld. be
found not to-be *condlidive to that end, and if those Who
hack had experience in these matters should not be pre-
patato giye it'their assent, he certainly would not press
`it.
It. was, a. matter quite open to .discussion: It was a
question of. the greatest importance, and ought not to be
treated in the least as a. party. question. He•was quite
:prepared to enter into the discussion ..of the measure
:but he would not advise the Government.pertinaciously
to adhere to it. His Noble Friend the Member for Dor-
setshire intended to call the attention of the House to
the subject of lunatic asyluins';' but, on this account the
GoVernment could not" be, called upon to postpone the
consideration of the snbject.noW tinder discussion, seeing
that the measure of his N'Oble Friend was not yet
matured. His- Hon... Friend had commented upon an
observation which he. (Sir J.. Graham) bad made with
respect to - the county-rate. What he (Sir J. Graham)
had said was that with greatercare.and greater .supervi,
sion a very material saving inightbe effected.- -With re-
ference to the remission of the cotton duty his lion
Friend had committed. 'an' error he (Sir
:James Graham) had heard otherS fall into—namely,
that ef. endeavouring to show the extent of relief to the
labourer of the country, whether manufacturing or com-
mercial, by the mere amount of the duty remitted as
affecting the article either worn
.pr used by -the la-
bourer. Now, .that was not the. argument. The argu-
ment was, that the remission' of the duty on the raw
material would so Operate upon the demand for that
article and the cost of the manufactUre 'as to materially
UOreiiie *the general prosperity of '64 " vianuiaCture