The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-03 00:00:00

STATE OF TRADE.

FOREIGN WOOL TRA Da, LEEDS, MAY 30.—We hare no
change to notice in this branch of trade since our last report.
Sales continue steady, and prices firm.
ENGLISH WOOL MARKET, LEEDS, MAY 30.—Sales of low
combing wools are quiet; there is a steady demand for the finer
qualities, prices of which are firm. Clothing sorts of middle
qualities are in good demand, and go off r eadily at late prices.
YORK WOOL MARKET, MAY 29.—Our first market for the
present season commenced this day ; very little wool was shown,
owing no doubt to the continuous cold weather having retarded
the operation of clipping, What was sold realised 13s. 6d. to
14s. per stone.

LiiEns.—Our cloth markets have been very dull at both halls
this week : goods of low qualities have been very dull of sale, and
the stocks on hand are on the increase ; prices, however, con-
tinue firm; for goods of fine and middle qualities there continues
a pretty steady demand : there has also been an inquiry alter
fancy cloakings in new styles, but on the whole the markets
have been below an average. The very cold weather we have
had of late has checked the demand for spring goods. Very
few buyers have been in the town, business has therefore been
dull in the warehouses.

LEICESTER.—There has not been much doing in the ware-
houses for the home demand, being between the seasons. A
fair shipping trade has been done, and moeerate orders are now
giving out by the Americans for the fall demand. Worsted
yarns remain steady, and are more in request. Wools are quiet
and firm.—Leicester Journal.
BRADFORD MARKET, THURSDAY.—The demand for Wool
continues languid, but the prices are firm. There isqinore in-
quiry for Yarn, and an increased disposition to buy, but the
prices are so extremely low, that the spinners find it impera-
tively necessary to decline orders, at the late ruinous prices.
In Orleans, Coburgs, and Merinoes, there is a steady improve-
ment in the demand, and the stocks gradually reducing, which
tends to give a degree of confidence to both buyer and seller
that things have seen their lowest point.
TRADE OF MANCHESTER, THURSDAY EVENING.--We
have had throughout the week, a steady and good demand for
most kinds of cloth, and if prices cannot be quoted higher, they
must be noted at least firm and even buoyant, and with the
staple at present prices, nri improvement may be confidently
anticipated. The dyers are getting busy again.— Spinners are
going on satisfactorily at rather higher rates, and with a brisk
demand.

His Excellency Count de St. Aulaire, the French
Ambassador, will this day proceed to Woolwich, in erder to re-
ceive their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess de Nemours,
who are expected to disembark at the Royal Dockyard, from Bou.
logne, to visit her Majesty and his Royal Higness Prince Albert.
The Royal Duke and Luchess will, during their sojourn in this
country, reside at Buckingham Palace. _

Ti
H; LATE FILM AT RACGETT'S HOTEL.—During
Saturday and Sunday a crowd as numerous as on any of the pre.
vious days continues congregated in Dover-street, anxious to as.
certain if any other bodies were discovered. The search of the
ruins was proceeded with during Saturday, but nothing of conse.
quence was found, the only articles of value discovered being two
gold watches, the owners of which have not yet been ascertained,
The search, in consequence of the seizure put in by Mr. Roberts,
the original landlord, to whom large arrears of rent are owing, was
to have ceased at six o'clock on Saturday evening, but it is under-
stood that an arrangement has been entered into between the par-
ties, under which the search will be continued until the whole of
the ruins have been examined. In consequence of the doubt ex-
isting as to whether the body found on Tuesday, or that discovered
on Friday, was the body of Mrs. Round, it was determined by the
relatives of that lamented lady that both bodies should be buried in
the family vault, but that course is now no longer necessary, since,
by a post mortem examination, it has been ascertained that one has
been a mother and the other has not. The identification is there-
fore clear. On Saturday afternoon the fragments of several jewels
were found in the ruins. Among them were two earrings, which
Lord Huntingdon identified as belonging to his lady. There was
also a gold diamond ring, which is supposed to have been the pro.
perty of Mrs. Round, and a brooch, which it is understood she in.
tended to have worn at the Queen's drawing-room on the following
day.

IMPERIAL P AMEN-T
• •
LIOUSE OF LORDS, Jane 2.
The Loan CHANCELLOR took his scat on the Woolsack al
Five lock,

TII E M A YNOO I H GRANT. from
The Earl of ti A R.EWOOD presented 160 peliti°l" eeth
various places in England and Ireland against the .11layne
Blil. hor Of
Petitions to a similar effect were presented by the Si
PI
of
D
Cashel, by Lard Denman and Lord Brougham ; by the Eaaehe,
Charleville, from Leeds, Penrith, Antrim, Ballycastle,
Armagh. and a number ot other places.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition
General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, signed by the
Moderator, with the seal of the Assembly attached, agg:nr:, was
proposed grant. The petitioners considered the
melaculated
in opposition to the spirit of the Reforination, and ea
resented
directly to encourage Popery. His Grace also pl.'
__,l of
petitions from the presbyters of the Free Church, SY"ed,
Kincardine, Mr. O'Neill, and the Dissenters of Cornwa
against the Bill. • • against
The Earl ot FALMOUTH presented eleven petitions
from thee
the, grant.
The Bishop of EXETER presented a number of
with a similar prayer.etition,
p
AIR. O'DRISCLL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR statOed that in ceirequenge °
what had transpired in that House, eight days agoctorne=eeihegeee
Mr. O'Driscoll inquiries had been made, and in
of that gentleman's recent proceedings, and also in consee::
'The
of some former misconduct in the Rolls Court of Irelarte,
_,,,,
Lord Chancellor ( Sir E. Sugden) had considered it his null
to dismiss him from the Commission of the Peace.
The Messenger of the House of Commons then brollgohl ,t, tae
e
several Bills, which were ordered to be laid on the table
House. • s from
The Bishop of WINCHESTER presented petitions ainst
St. John's, in the Isle of Wight, and several other places, ag
the grant to Maynooth. r °f
The Duke of NEWCASTLE presented a great number
petitions aeaint te geet to Aanoth.
Then Bisheps 1N
of ORr WiCHi
I resented a great nu m,elow:
petitions to the same effect, but he read the names in u
tune that we could not catch one of them. David's,
The Bishops of London
and Durham, and Lord Kenton Earls Fitzwilliarn and
lam presented pc+ itions against the grant to Maynoothiresiera
'l he Earl of ELDON presented p etitions from the _ war
congregations of Lincoln's Inn-fields and swore.' other P
against the grant to Maynooth. Worcester, St. yaw
SMALL DEBTS BILL. , Dill.
Lord BROUGHAM moved the second reading of 4'1"..
MAYNOOTII GRANT. 1 ~tots
The Duke of WELLINGTON then roe and said
was his duty to re rest the attention of their Lordship: 10d
important subject—to explain the principles and the n
91ebetit
the provisions of the Bill which he wet" it tat°
to their Lordships, and entreat them to carry tio
execution—namely the maintenance of that inslsh Istfr
That institution was founded fifty years ago by the Iri feet
liament, and that Bill contained a recital of the provisaitTstoedt be
Acts by which it was originally founded. It was reel could
found, in the year 1800, and subsequently in 180`'' teat Ole
not be denied—and he did not stand there to deny ,he fee'
Acts were inconsistent with the code of laws by which
.`,. $0
although this inconsistency did exist with regard
formation was established in te at country and in Reis; coot'
merit of these laws, he considered that he should
these vs
tot ode to
show that, as respected religious rinciples, these
had not been complained of since Pthe time when er is
laws had been first enacted, fifty years I° tel
1800 or in 1808, to the present moment° , Ilse - t
clearly to understand the principle on which thl affairs g'
before, °seer
founded he should call their attention to the state of
~ (eat'
the Reformation. The necessity for this institution:vele es ti;
sioned by the failure of the means for the spread glen FiSgep
blished reformed religion. The laws which had r befroo t
ohe
fo,
then had been found altogether incompetent,
period he had referred to rebellion had succeeded t,.° reeellio
ropertil
forfeiture .of property had succeeded to forfeiture orfefeper;
until this country had become, so to speak, the centl:sessfon w
tions of foreign and civil war, in contest for the P° dto
its own— fie Wiwe-ion
The Duke of NEWCASTLE rose to order. his eisca"eoe '
ask a preliminary question before entering ill'°tte'slancj
—.whether the Noble Duke hail received her Maies ' Iv
Lord BROUGHAM said that this was a seed
for the introduction af this measure der•
mos , to or 0
proceeding. The speech of the Noble Duke was Ited bi
It was an interruption which ought not to be tolefieo.) f tee
--- House.( Hear, hear, and cheers, and great ellefir-ctieg °LAO
The Duke of NEWCASTLE thought then ave from
Crown was necessary.--( Cries of " Order, orde' weer
sides of the Tleuse, in the midst of which) ,iiat be . the!
Lord BROUGHAM again rose, and said ne OP to
would sit in that House and allow any man to ue'4,,ue,anf tee •
had a perfect and undoubted right to open, t 1 hee the
close, any discussion upon any measure. The es ober ~ci.
Crown was required lit one case only, and that sc, eonacernose
revenues or patrimonial interests of the Crown wers'e here 'the
The Dukes of WELLINGTON and NeweesTteries for
tegetlier, but there being unanimous and loud either
former, the Duke of Newcastle gave way. It was 'Ole
The Duke of WELLINGTON continued in the '.00;
from his own infirmity, or a want of elearne" tee enestitiell•
Duke who interrupted him, that he had not heard
,eseeree_es,
After a/ iproliertli'oe
otherwise lie should, without the'slightest hesitation " had °%,.0
policy
hfon,,:il,ci,
interruption,
oe vet ,eh talhiriei is rshahLipeloartrdhlsiahatmi
would
(Loud
ic ewished,l7 .9rdscei. rNeyrsadse;fl ec a
;g3.1,i,
iinoi
on
ttep
t: :ill
of successive wars, rebellions, and forfeiture ()the
possess 0.
system had been carried on in that country
afer
meet 211 Pe :04
of the Crown—that repealed by Act of r 1.", a,... seyeig°,o,
the protection of the reformed religion, as
codes, and enacted others for the support of t'l.,.ed into lien
intro-- tile.
land by the code of laws adverted to. F 'rich period the see,.
of that code till the year 1795 (during watch execution in ee;„
formation could not be carried into extensive;
the service °fele,
land) there never were wanted ecclesiastic' °
try whether natrlil;
Roman Catholic mission in that country'
semiflat 00,
of the British dominions or advocated in
Catholic coun-1 Jo
The forces of the Republic spread into the
ani
Italy. a
beyond thebathesnk of the Rhine, into GermanY, moldablisbuie
the course Revolution, the religious est ,
France were put down. But still he believed thSsotion 4
have been possible to have found means for .the c stole, -a
the Continent. But the Ministers of the day,
Irish Roman Catholic ecclesiastics in the Catholic C° 0504°
inttrhor into
and tilt to lace
they tionsuited in Ireland, did not think it expellienfieenceee';
the education of so considerable a body to foreign jn..o to wt
( Hear,Besides, in the fifteen years Pe%elieleff
period to which he referred, the power of the Iriol "e,e tsl 10
had been increased, and that body had become an axy roe„,,
independent Parliament. Considering, also, that tee Tare
power had been introduced into the existence of that, ter
ment by the repeal of the Acts to which he had
sidering how much the power of the native pepulathiasides dos
augmented, the Government of that day, on bet . that i4t,ip%
water, in England as well as in Ireland, decideet_osieen e,
their duty to endeavour to discover the means of e nirel,
native education for the Roman Catholic ecclesiasticnelsuot_,,
rather than to leave them any longer to the Orel%
_ee'arl7,7l,
which they might have continued to receive after the ieteae„
They, therefore, made the arrangement which was Was sue.
this Bill, being the Act of 1795. That arranger
gerept Rein,j
grated by two successive Lords Lieutenant, of , the fr,oo
ral political opinions—the late Earl Fitzwillians an' of taut,
qeis of Camden.—(Hear, hear.) The charaeleort to swigs
inen whom he would now name, would be staCteeatal t°loo
this House that they could mean nothing doul.hose avdr
religious establishment of this country. the into(
were the late Lord Chief Justice Fitzgibbon' Lod iir.
adverntebosibe;
bishop of Cashel, the Earl of Shannon, the top, tee
Justice of the Common Pleas, Chief Baron 1 eiejetel °., tlO
Speaker Foster, Mr. Woul le, afterwards Chief
uPlierej i
ore
Queen's Bench, and Lord Kilwarden, who was In The Os re.
streets of Dublin in the insurrection of 1803.
table state,
was then sent to England to that highly respecele of ~10
epected nobleman the Duke of Portland, Secreeeti;fs, heft,' 0,1
and he consulted with the Archbishop of Canter°l2osle 01; er
presented it to his Sovereign, Geo. 111., with whose
was g. I t°
it was returned to Ireland. So that there neve
_jest Nu fbe
sure proposed that offered so much security afehesee)proter
the established religion of this country.—(Healitieveli dere'
Bill went back with the approbation of an eac_ d ther ei,
tant Government, with Mr. Pitt at its head, 'oneneee t°oo.
they could net recommend any measure that pey.his couthoe
daneer the religious establishments or opinions 01 '"
0 make use hil
—( Hear, hear.) He had thought it necessarer
1., bees
soot
observations before going into the
perceived by the petitions presented to the 110°,,!, 'was° dso•
was passing in pultlic, that the opposition to the meat
he,, psi
owing to the fear entertained that the measure w;hiee Prey.,
gercus to the Established Church, a feeh,ngsear, hilettri
happy to say was quite illusory—(Cries of `,.., cee-e0 of 0_
and, therefore, they might pass it with connaePierationer tee
A measure to this effect was taken into the cools° tin 00
Irish Parliament before the Union. It was tajoion, a% 00
'd of the soul 10
consideration of that House at the perm e ~ to ,
taken account of in the articles of the Union•.
show this
to their Lordship. the 7th article, which would et t
tra-- I,OIL.
the case. The Noble Duke then read an tales t , lir_,
article, to the effect that a sum of money no, beforfeeow
general questioe ,10dby,e 0
should be applied for the purposes of agrieeletiseeleoge97,
which had been granted for a period of six. yue,a,..rrsal aseob
jetr,_,
facturing improvements, and for religious ande United I.`„,ei o
in such a manner as the Parliament of th , lf till
should direst. Now at that time not a worn ~e n0i0..,, sod
the measure. Subsequently, in 1808,
two countries was completed, the subjeet svt:,a„to Tot Prier
considerable difference of opinion was manife .
sells ettan.
of the grant, but not a word was said aboutj about
°weer",
ciples being in danger—not a word only nothing
to the i eligious establishment. ring, by t se lt
f°
was to the amount of the gran:l'4oles. sass ant
whatever about the insecurity of religious Pniu'reple,e oreo°,/
Duke of Wellington) said that religious Tee, at teresejoe,ol",
there, it was sate ever since, and it wa' gif the s!,l..ttog lid
moment.—.( Hear, hear. ) He would now el. , ot._
said
after,tedise!sse7ooo.o!
sew' Ther` cell'
their Lordships to the condition of they:.
,_,.
~,e
04
the education- of the Roman Catholic pries nel'iOaure for 'false
be no doubt but that some means were nee i.v leberir it set:
cation of Roman Catholic priests of 1re1a.1,!14, in le,sooera
at the period of the Union was 3,00(?,0":',:5ee to e°' 010,4
8,261,000, and now it had no doubt dere 0 o..fier;
Of this number about 7-Bths were constee silo by ~01,10
Catholics. There could be no doubt sere:Toro' at! Celre7giofor
larger proportion of the people of Ireland were e
requires.ed ished 01.
—( Hear, hear,) This large populatr e
~ not fur abrfhet
teachers, and these, if Provision ".... eir educ,a" to logy
their education at home, must receive tilt
True, the country th ug seas!
nal
it was in 1795, but, notwithstand
world, Ilecuseettoioo
were at peace now with the wholbeii4h e,
sue- ~,,t port le
his belief, still desirable to este 2.,ente of lue'aeeesluti'd
arrangement in Ireland, that the inhtaLleunderenle 100
of her Majesty's dominions should not
educate'. f
Ms 0- ht of
of sending their ministers abroad to was in a different
the ev!,"„g toOhnv
call the attention of their Lordships to
rov,"l-' le. " ...
of P . h peoP oae
two years to illustrate the importanceof the Iris _ewe 0.0 e
education for the theological teachers of
purpose
manioc
and
f.
ins the period referred to, great 1
fora the purpose ;se Ire,lbnese
count of the large meetings heldthis eountrY„ of `_ken
repeal of the Union existing between
_a_e
rode u
...d 0
They were aware of the exciting llar_lee thenlo,
well eriieing
meetings, and that foreipers had was
."7,, was ale
~,pat .1' to
. insgi
,tuatmoi h
io
prominent part in the proceedifno7seig l'
n eountries,;(agref error
that meetings had been held in .
0,
the union,
each n.ooet
with the proceedings for are I 1
offering ri or
Peiabutions. I•Thdtiie edaegellesrge
support them by money contr _ 0 e•
won
i to- of
secclesiasticsates'eoulidncountries wits__d referee t' -0
the Government of any of those
4, welch he, r'4tooig Pal r! Ord'
.." ,u 0 . e yo- ,
encouragement to the proceedings
t h
foreigne i r L °cr.
countries'
the persons d the'', eflog
favour towards ,he wilted,
, ,ito r,
manifesting any bing, but, • Led, by , gett .
them. Ile believed no such t
evil that ell' broad.' \ 0 all
ships against the possibility
°ifs tobe educeted a
_,roact 1
_e
eo,
the ecclesiastics of this countle,tate of roligiono.hat"by thelaoch
hear.) In adverting
to
the
ducation was souse, he 511/ e%bi-
foreign countries, in which end er
the le etlierlanoirdaegerags 00
clesiastics, in France, ItalYe a. n the scleignS an and it 11 f the
difficulty to be apprehended
j those countries.,teachit!g of 0
bited by religious systems.,
in
for the theologica_l
eoutorle6eiresder
usinlitPrsiesdir We di-d
noee
desirable that ecclesiastr
be
e mliseeted in tshtooseeeteaee,,et e
peole of Ireland shoulddditional division tu_ed
el'ito,
to bring back wife theme therefore I repofer the rite
existed. They (the Government)
tableheti at . home - reiona .0
ter re'le sioe '
institution should be e admit° • . ieroug otie°
proper . eessary to - tbollo ,i , resit 0 ~,,
tion of the ecclesiastics ne •
t;
~ Boman cadee,ord'" resit w
to her Majesty's subjects
of
Jett before sac 'tur _
so
Ireland. In bringing the s
o.
.11 the it
e
notbin,, 1 i.
he had shown there was

. _en_
l'a.rin 17,-vs of the Protestant religion, and he would now submit
r PrePosttien that it w absolutely impossible to maintain
the s ~.• . 7 as
their. ,e In as i vas.-( Hear, hear.) In a paper lid Ilion
Lordships'.table three days. ago,. they had been furnished
stiliotolhat.,i.et!tate.-ot the present institution for the education.. of the
lot. "o-'atholle prieshood of Ireland, as found in December
for The institution was represented as altogether insufficient
to the Porpcses of education. The buildings were described
it e in a state of rain ; and the accommodation was such that
was imoo•sible to accommodate with common decency the
Idttulents who attended there. The conveniences for study or
corn
comfort were of the most imperfect character. I.t.bbee
scifdrs. ors and others engaged in the duties of educating 0 _
ences ent were inadequately rewarded. In fact, the professors
of li'erature, anil of theology were not paid leg,. er
to common clerics• It also was stated that to render it possible
,a-- cart Yon the invit.ution, even under these imperfect arrange-
dir, it was found necessary to send the students away
This step was absolutely
and
in
pord4r7t,:iihwesits-‘,l7eltia94thing like cleanliness, . nd to suit the
rasoZ
t,,ath.s of the establishment. It curs necessary to
or het ee institution for the uses of the Roman Cat‘leio.ellc.,
4,iie aed--for it would he admitted they must have ec l
quite
iaa.:, arid if so it was evident that at ',resent it was
the;•.(lura...te for tl,e purpose. Her. Majesty's Governymetri
e,
feetia., `• Poposett that to an institution support te
means
11,0 a., of the great body of the people hit Ireland, m • e
f. . id Le afforded so as to establish it on the sam.
s7tt 'il'ag' "4
on the same principles as the otheyn All mustn"e ef ti e country formed for similar purposes.r.
areal admit that the Roman Catholi t ecclesiastics exe.rci,ed,
reasonable over the minds of the people, and if so, it was
Pelle, le that their Lordships should endeavour to i
ter hiontevans for their education. Such a course was called Vie ah„,a,et to secure the peace and happiness of the
eopeiore.oideinleavour to give the students at Maynporth those.re
for wi.ct Ithieh belOorr to men who are to fill the stations of lire
ie lit 'h they ate intended. They ought to have instructionstonto
lisseZtere and science as well as in theology-they ougt„,
the,
_t.. apparatus and books which are necessary todaott .eit.
tlaieitueettueiton in the various branches of scien.ce, an
enebe.
sikaiek 3
Alfor the performance of their du
.ties. asl 'Nest •Y Lords, I am aware there is a prejudice
kali, thecastitution and against those educated there. I existinghave
_.s g to
s i Yon this subject, except that an institution such as
the pttrepreSented to be in these papers could not have answered
The ohrPase nhieh the Trish people had in view in instoutin.gsinn.
the object of the measure Won thep is that of raiw. eo
are
ettaraeter of the instituand character of those
ooh
t_
rasyheietred there--that tire persons educated at A ay n h
tett bet the there-that station and respectability which we. allhaveonn.
tries, for' to the
tilt
th who_ Roman Catholic clergymen in foreign c
, 'a all of us entertain the highest respect, and to, ea J. 'nal be roen of education and manners, and era i rd
'alliree%e the influence which belon•es to them for the social
I,44ot:tent of the people. If the measure has the effect of
l'elkifee tteha:h 'nen tor the ministry we shall have retidereth s
toe'a.aryas andhsitittit b i troduring and recommending it
s'yd introducing and recommending this
th Pej stsot adoptian - I hope the measure willno
-seristent with Pourare% religious principles, or likely to injure
thee r-Sl°!tt convictions oreligious
estants.-( The Noble e
lalreadyeattotothe detail of the measure which have ]beent
ewd „ItresePea,te_dly before's the . public.) , The annual gran evialulte azpetually recurring discussion.-( Hear. hear..)
eau!tllerilea,,at.nothing can be more wise than making this
foreleent a dapto get rid of those discussions which are the
economy that it' of much ill-feeling and prejudice. I there. 1
."0 a 0 's desirable we should pass this Bill, if it
of
ose aat ether benefit than that of getting rid
t 0
this just. 114. discussions I have already said that the.gr.ant
(444i4s itßti°fl Was never considered to involve any religious
°ea. n 0r Principle- and it cannot be considered to do so
etitetie But I be, le '' • tali 4 has
it, leave to remind your Lordships that this in-
Yoe 1 tweet "en roaintamed fifty years.-( Hear, hear. )
- theeusr • y 3'ears of that period we were engaged in. war;
Ll"end dnteletaned it since then for a long period of agitation,
' (iti ''s'uni°4 of questions affecting the interests of Ire-
'ie'l agrlb icbieh You had the Catholic Association and other
~,,t'ercia'n-p:;lini'tvrilieh you have had to make enactments, to pass
toast di-,o"'"'s, and other measures of that description. To the
L 45 4'9llit..Tlston of all you put an end fifteen years age-
sllle s Sinop thn, my Lords we cannot say that we have
n %h. ". Very tranquil
morrow of the day
bn... leh the „, state. dn the very
i: of ear,,.-milvas passed, measures. weornetaken for the pur-
-5'4,1 of the
°si and agitationTherethweaqsuenstion of the
good deal
14. N thre'
therlolt end d,e, •-•-( Hear, hear.). .
d particuarly in
it-acuity about this question,. an r y . ]deal of
ii'ty in ~,'' Years. Up to 1d43 there existed a ;,,00n
tQe.ties ,'"feMinds of some and terror in the minds of others.
fr. tretiaist. _ Hear, hear.'.) Great attention was drawn to
ira,%,
.esaot'ret_ , and an efteet on the question was produced in
11,7411,1 e to
_es? and a great many doubted that it would he
b tumult and
il este,
to
_resist the attempt tiiat was made., , Lear, hear. )
tbl,•oras, ,2,-arrY the repeal of tine union.-(11
geeiii. enatever may be the opinion '4 ' 4 °l*Your Lord-hip ' Hou t ror de-
of the le al effect of
se on ihe writ o er .
eas• 'e the monthof a' . ' 4" tember
,41 his
_eos -ugust or -ep .
it is absolutely =-
last, there is. no
tZble to
cart es who now doubts that
1..
oleoee in Ire-
\ eagsiiisp ‘erY any measure by tumult an, cl 1 .
aet(tneal, h sae is
of the Government and the Par's'ament
t its tl'is !at.) I believe that no man in his senses nosw..
1°,4, e act, and that we are, therefore, this day, in a
_4e
tlia7eeatel'eettnil,ertake the consideration of this measure.
wilA, -
ata it e'Yettnued the grant for fifty years, and cannot. h
Sotelawluet having the appearance of persecution.'Therean-
oil'aseYtTight millions of Catholics in Ireland, and
I"erdes, I
lop her
_ern without religious instruction. My
whisks I
,tioa,
oonanitnous consent to the Bill of
iisttlieboikee honour to propose the second reading.
itti 11%e e of CAMBRIDGE said that he could sit in
ksl'iqtrtltiee'Pd.give a silent not on a question of sue.h ammopnent
of the
itte voecii!i° the People of Ireland. He thought it o aoPtat afo't°l, measures which had ever been introduced
is",isas,'tete ; and although he woud give in to none i hise
'hold Ne'eateent to the Protestant religion as established,h
bP't,thi'' C'rpt thQ question by his vote, and he really confsidrrthede
';'lrifttflill:rnerit deserved the thanks of the House o
fio 'e Pao
tiorward.
d him to differ
tels 7 the "„'RODEN said that it
had ievientroduced this
he hail 42'41e Duke
tles,
the Member who
h otheir. Lffoorrddsehtilphs'im
ohieetetos letogie very earliest opportunita . ntresne:
eeedrat° Neil' the Progress of this measure.that
pattiN a ,i4rtlP,rdiug with an amendment beforeueh theyw was
sp
rhoi -s
`ith ;los-'' they should appoin.a Select Commitiee up
rep oil, e isire •
e,, alto the nature of the' instruction given inthe
Itkietl:6secalntaarY of Maynoeth, which
.Parliament was now,
o'nc'e of us t.. 0 establish, by conferring on it a permanent
,iiiat lintento ta,
oeeristed that if in the course
Nobleof discussion he
Lords in
ettle 0 '°!,
~,, be atiteLnis entertained by many
ties f' len ut thnlatut be forgiven, because he should have but
;) at° '4-'4 bloke- %In who had no feeling for thesensibiloif-
Sett beetle a% '3/4°N Roden) had now for a long.. seriess
lot V that ti- .44,
ti ot of , pr e heehraTitihtir of tha.tto.rneonfnteteontht e.irn Hthoue_
p,arab.nad.
Le Gala nteetant ought i i -
Il"op ge of afa eotintry even to vote the snnual sum to
et red to this Ynce), th• how much more, ore, then, should he
remind Noble Lords
:tilthittlt:osjas cot teinten'adseutTe. He
wboeufotre, a mere tolerated
if
tt,
..ie die It. was intend tdo
to be
a State establishment, but
, r%l State "es,nee, that intended
wouldo not be under the supervisione
itec,Polle; 'e eauld looknjot at this measure as one of me laurel anon' ';°,l. a' question pounds, shillings, and
\ Of 0, "' as a reji • On of . pence. Hed
cable oat, he ~ glens question, and if the House wanted
4 (d. theta hs:,_°llld refer them to the numerous petitions
tit . the bad himself presented-and they did not
N 'itere the em
of the middle classes only,
s
ti,„... 04 , were e
VI th '°vver, -ronte from the higher,
hii, ere fro_ g ades of society. There
fawrnnedmre o‘pt‘heneetr:-.
ted ?..tols, intr. Church of England ;eap;ere each
_,ePen'ents, from the Free Churchmen of. Scotland,
„f ao,,tjoin • uenotnination, for all had sunk minor diffe-
N 1 ter; 'en what he w° old call this holy union.-( Cheers.)
liNititoa,,try":_ki to the
opiniuonsexpressed by the. great. men of
tf
a eeiiimeani,en Whom, if he named them, their Lordships
1% ht,,l•getii ge to be worthy to be quoted. Onee
etiere to in the House of Commnns some
Ili,'ile ijb 4 a debate on a similar question, and he wouldd
'what he had
li!riketatitd. It!
wof.reading a short quotation from . .
letls el. II 's ea
man who stood high in the opinion of
tol her Itric •e (Lord Roden) had the honour and the h.anp-
ir-eheri wing him well. He had loved him when
sati"'ls-srilt ;17,i111'-oeloscret'o,ntheemegoarl
shen dead-and when he named
hued*tlle'rad Stated with gureraetetrhafternvoouornethwaonultdhecoNinohcbl.dmlee
teed
ests-or 0_
eposite (Lord Brougham), ,Il'ilt:,d,ta rate urea him highly The Noble Lord tin n. p.r
who knew him
Soltteteilooteeiloa
the from- .
" of the word
a speech delivered by Wilaam
ottotle a, ana the Year liloB, on the meaning 'tar as y, '"e length to which it should be extended-
' 'al put h ce al compatible with the peace of societynoferrHed
iltd Il!
CeaTt.thtakime that great benefits had been co
the k "en -"lies of Ireland, from which Protestants..te
ki'lltire excluded • and he might merely (ire
r,te Iri:e'reet Sheiety, which had, he believed, done mbod,
kti,eti::aaer' Al;tlote,ll:lnany other institution. Government. a
li iteliselleme ~,, that society, and founded enr intsotrouninlys
to
active ngtef to' e4ucation, which was contra
eof ii, •,„oe hierarchy
hie
tat,
gueeo erotestants also. It had been argued that_. thereo,__
in that country, butyhe believed
tisi, tolrei ands for this measure-one, that it would ~ivse.
kith of erhicand ; and the other, that it would extend the ble
the At tapir cation
to the Irish eople Had it been received
i•oeie.ense "Y the Irish themselves? He should just read
'llts. of of :igrptract from a letter of the Roman Catholic.
Itt,t tb4te 'ch.' rh,althi Dr. Higgins; and also a quotation from
t
qeris
Iseolltint.7.;! hY,.an Nob I, riest in a different par,
el4iheh has Vie le Lord read Dr. Higgine s
a ready appeared in all the journa_l.s.
ti:elgllelis::idit.thatrsthis measure was dictates! by fear. lie
t o lob tity,,h
v..'"te believed that it was dictated by a wish
'itteliNa.ttien i Yhteek,hope that it would secure a cordial and
forth
I "teP'n n t-nunn• But no sooner had it gone down
la' eteetees thaatteha that Irish agitation could no.t be put
1114ttkt keg t the.,+ 'monster meetings were again
and he had
i "tssra the ."ing at Cork, another at Navin, proclaimed.
e`eit the Cneonneement of a meeting to be ld on the
I elleate the protests o the Ist of Jnly.-(Cheers.)he Was that
ti le th_nts bf Ireland to be allowed-(Cheers)
tliti lea e %At spa
Nip-tithe °Pon the anniversary of the great victory,
4 la, 'ea
__glorious
,t'iZsiati
,T the R n
i.and immortal King William secured
-,1 ut gush nation, arid for the Roman Catholics
te..,("es tat-s.), (r,r"-atongtt, which they' never before possessed.-
%Ns e seen JUst in her Majesty's Government tot allow
lialt4 iiiie°n that Zit° gave up their peaceful and loyal j 0 (tilt' 0 to be-e"_"Yo at the command of the Crown, to ailow
tittle '4(714 . o insulted? Let him call back the recollec-
t, t the' Ilea% Pee„,tY:s Government to what occurred in. 1842.-
liteett 'toto,p "nen the fury of aeitation was carried so far
(1.1 vriklttl Rea Ilts.
‘o.f Ireland quitted the country in hundreds,
Ctlk.kt. L t Ahv :_,'," this country or in America,-( Hear.,rhetaer-.)
,4'155r).....' 'rule fe that drove those people to emote _
4.l4tivaeiZer 113, itior theirovernment showed its consciousness of
kph
the ~Z(ReapPl•eing the military force and fortifyingesorte
d to,
:/ Neitlit was thear• ) strong measures werrr
Iti • to ,_ a tithe reveal agitation subsided, and t.he, Nal:teproe'e'red peace.--( Hear, hear.) Prosperity
tlatttZt) hear,4l ralitert.,t was promoted, speculation received a
11.„ at .-`°s were Projected in every quarter.-
ciqg the) .' a, soon as the declaration of the inteu-
,va Si: it ,s;atiertnnent on this Bill were made known in
taa!!irre",: he
ennead nevr life to agitation. In support of his
4 Stithitlttltrave7 an eztraet from the work of Mr. Inglis, the
4.
pita) holler er, who
was no friend to the Protestant Es-
lisZtt Rt°Per Yet it bote testimony to the fact, that the ran-
*iaehePt firtha' aßgravated by the education at Maynooth.
111 el tale jaaa eaisted in Spain, as he and every one who
Vijlt: ie theall tel,;" kne
w to their sorrow. - ( Cheers. ) He
koa a tioae eeiahitt,tteotion. of the House to what hail taken
le.„4.geesittipet se'l'os,oalarnrhoood of Dingle, in the Kerry,countyofvle
illoted tl elae °,
super them the Roman Catholic st
tared he Niro ' ettperior rank, who was a magistrate, re
etaeoeirsintch.,e(atkUatholic persuasion and joined the Estah-
illaTteitini thos'neete.) The Noble Lord then read the
Area ‘+t sf,
recnverts, addressed to the Lord Lieutenant,
's' thew the 7 seeution which they had suffered in conse-
sth
teeoptll7,,, rstateeoanscientious conduct. - ( Hear, proved
ei ~ e e„ law m in that memorial were p
4,4 ilt: el I;Pit oy it'd he, therefore, sr d with Mr. high is.
-ik_, pokr_
_, . ore, agreed
4,1,
,j,,..
,ritoil ti;lee'tz"n thaYn7ina3S pain,tn l r e Anti-Protestant and ranco-
r he
-( Hear, hear.)
Itl°llNttitti", he
l'°°' R Catholics of his country af test,tett fr would 'lad not thitik that a further endowment o
al4otab rej atotn the
e:iffdect that object. The Noble Lord then
tk4
,the4,t,t)'nteitte •"ee of Mr. O'Connell before a Parlita.-.
-11. - 'tett that In 1835, when that oentleman gave tes i
tr,thhttlike
I,ort,elo,eot italt.,,th.,: priests wholorlerly were. .educated
l,oot e„ sts atie osu strong Anti-Jacobin principles,
‘ Warople oeated at Maynooth were more identified
Ale,"IL.. cerw,' and cons f that pronerty.
a, ) r eetioo equently had less o , r, d
totiku•Ntit.,4 liti, i afly called loyalty.-(" :fear, bear, an
but
tea
4 l r"hiPS might not perhaps be aware of the
(lady reh a 'toenail Catholic had to endure, when he
ellottoced that creed, but there was no such

danger to the Protestant clergyman who thought fit to adopt
the Roman Catholic persuasion. He knew that these unfor-
tunate men would be persecuted. He could not convince any
man more to he patient than the poor Roman Catholic, who
left that Church for conscience sake, to join the Protestant
form of belief. Ile felt assured that no Roman Cath.olie Peer,
who now heard him, coin(' do otherwise than believe that no
Roman Catholic would he safe from persecution who had be-
come a Protestant. He had been lately present at a meeting
held in Dublin, against this Bill; and there was a Roman Ca-
tholic priest who sa.d be had been at Maynooth. He was
called on to state what he knew of that institution. He said
that as far as the confessienal was concerned his mouth was
sealed for ever; but he (Lord Roden) had now before him a
coey of the statement that that gentleman made, and he would
read it. ( Here the Noble Losd read the statement, by which
is appeared that the party alluded to was represented to state
that every species of evasion was resorted to in order to avoid
taking the oath of allegiance, such as feigning illness, not
kissing the book, repeating the words of the oath backwards,
&e. &e. The statement was a very long one, but the whole
tenor of it was to the same effect, namely, devices for evading
the oath of allegiance "to a Protestant Sovereign." When
the Noble Lord had concluded reading the document, he went
on to say that after the meeting was over, the individual who
made the statement offered to his Lord-hip to swear to the
truth of it.) He (Lois' Roden) would ask, what was the
cause of all this disaffection, but the system of education
now in force in Maynooth? The Noble Duke who had in-
troduced this measure had not made the slightest allmeon to
this system. If the doctrines taught at Maynooth were ultra-
montain doctrines—if they were the doctrines of Italy, then
he would say they were at variance with allegiance to the
Sovereign of this country by Irishmen.—( Hear, hear.) He
would then ask, were not these grounds sufficient to warrant
him in calling upon their Lordships to comply with his propo-
sition, namely, to appoint a Committee to inquire into the
present system of education at Maynooth ?—( Hear, hear.) A
commission of inquiry was appointed in the year 1825, for
inquiring into the state of Ireland ; but that commission broke
up without extending, their inquiry to Maynnoth. He was
further justified in his demand for inquiry by the speech of Sir
Robert Peel in 1849, when the Right Hon. Baronet said,
in the debate on the Maynooth question, that he did not mean
to contend that the system of education at Maynooth
College was one which did not demand inquiry ; on
the contrary, he (Sir H. Peel) would be most anxious for in-
quiry, and if that inquiry had taken place, he would vote for
the grant with much more satisfaction. He ( Lord Roden)
now advocated the same principle—namely, the necessity for
inquiry, and he called for it in the name of the people of Eng-
land and the people of Scotland.—( Hear.) He would now
fortify his argument by a still stronger ground—namely, by
reading from the Eighth Report on the state of Maynooth,
under the presidency of Dr. Crolly, the names of the books
read at Maynooth College ; they were, Delahogue's Dogmatical
Theology, and Bailey's Moral Tracts. The Noble Lord next
read as extract from an appendix to a Parliamentary report of
1836, in which, he said, Dr. Machale denied that ultra-montaine
doctrines were inculcated at Alasnooth, as they were not
conducive to the allegiance of Irish subjects to the British
Crown. The Noble Lord then referred to a letter of the Cardi-
nal Prefect of the Propaganda at Rome in the year 1796,
and read an extract from it, with a view to show that in May-
nooth College the students were obliged to read " Thomas
Aquinas" as one of their College books, and contended that
those students were obliged to read that book, which he (Lord
R.) would contend for it, contained nothing more nor less than
ultra-montaine doctrines. Surely they would not give that
suns to produce the disloyalty and misery which is so prevalent
in that country. He would now give an extract from "Thomas
Aquinas" to show the bearing and tendency of that theologian's
opinions. With respect to the question How heretics should
be treated ? ' he distinctly states that heretics should be punished
with death ; and this is the divine who is called in Maynooth
their divine master. In another book used there" MenoChius."
the author of it, in reply to the question as to how heretics should
be treated, refers to Maldonatus, who given it as his opinion that
heretics should be put to death rather than thieves or mur-
derers, because the firmer destroyed the soul, but
the latter took away only the life or property.
This he says in his commentary on that passage of the
Scriptures where allusion was made to the plucking up of
the tares from the cood seed. Now that system of instruction
to which he had called their attention at once accounted for
the crimes and enormities which were committed by the poor
of Ireland. He considered that he established sufficient grounds
why they should hesitate before they continued or augmented
that grant—until they knew what really was the system of in-
struction pursued in Maynooth. He would, in conclusion, re.
fer to only one other authority—Mr. Alexander Knox. He
was a person who knew the state of the case well, being Se-
cretary to Lard Castlereagh, and treasurer to Maynooth, to
which office he was appointed by that Nobleman. This
person said that the three first clergymen who were ap-
pointed professors of Maynooth were three refupee French
priests, who had escaped from the rope and the lamp -
post, and all the horrors of the French Revolution. The
Noble Lord, having read a long statement of the opinions of
Mr. Alexander in reference to the doctrines inculcated at May-
nooth, proceeded to say that he now thought he had grounds
for maintaining that the ultra-montaine doctrines were
still taught there.—( Hear, hear.) He would ask them
what was there in that Bill to provide that the Gal.
lican "doctrines should be substituted for the ultra-
montaine doctrines, or that the injunctions of the Cardinal*Pre-
feet of the Propaganda at Rome should not influence the 'trus-
tees of the college. In consideration of his poor Catholic
fellow-countrymen he could not consent to that Bill. The
Roman Catholic doctrines were dangerous, He had sworn, in
common wirh some of their Lordships, that Catholic doctrines
were idolatrous. He, therefore, believed in the truth of what
he swore, and believing so, he could not consent to any mea-
sure that established or perpetuated them. Those who felt
strongly on the subject were called illiberal and bigoted. and he
had often heard it sail that he delighted in calling his Catholic
friends idolators. He had lived many years among his Roman
Catholic brethren. He had taken an active part against them. In
1829 he exerted himself to the utmost to prevent the admission
of Roman Catholics to that and the other House. But he de-
fied any one to state that ever he uttered a harsh word against
them. All he would say was, that if they could divest them-
selves of priestly influence, he would freely trust his life and
property amongst them.—( Hear, hear.) The eyes of the
community were on their Lordships. There never was such
excitement in the country on any other subject, and much of
the future happiness or misery of the country would depend
upon the decision to which they would come upon that ques-
tion. The measure had been frequently argued as if the Ro-
man Catholics alone comprised the people of Ireland. The
question of population had been glanced at by the Noble Duke,
and he believed that his statements were nearly correct—
namely, seven millions of Catholic. and one million and a half
of Protestants and Dissenters. Although the latter were the
minority they comprised those who had always displayed
affection and loyalty to that country, and were to
a man opposed to the repeal of the Union.
(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Were they then to sacrifice
that portion of their Irish subjects to the howl of the priesthood?
The Protestants of Ireland thought they had been betrayed,
and they now imagined that little else remained for them but
to consult for the altar and their homes. —( Hear, hear. )
They asked them to put down agitation, and in the face of
their entreaties their Lordships stood aloof and apathetic ; and
they are disgusted at the policy which was pursued. When the
day of trial arrives ( and it must arrive sooner than was expected)
they would find the Protestants of freland true to the consti-
tution, and arrayed on the side of England. He should now
move that, previous to the consideration of the Bill before the
House, a Select Committee should be appointed to inquire and
report to the House what were the class-books and books of
reference used at Maynooth, and what was the nature
of the tenets and doctrinesinculcated there. After
the most mature deliberation he had determined to with-
hold his consent from the measure now introduced, regarding
it, as he did, as contradictory to and subversive of they best
principles of the Constitution, apart from all theological consi-
derations. In the latter view he would abstain from discuss-
ing the question, believing, as he did, that that House was a
very unbecoming arena for polemical controversy, especially
since the admission of Peers of a creed contemned by the articles
and fundamental doctrines of the Anglican Church. When,
however, he remembered the state of the Irish peasantry,
moulded into disaffection toward England and her established
religion by the teaching of their priests, and that from that
class were selected the students subsequently devoted to ascetic
instruction, he could not conceive a -system more cal-
culated to create and prolong error. As to the de-
fence in favour of the measure, that it would tend
to the subsequent promotion of trade, by extending the
opportunities of study and education, he should bein-
clined to give that argument some weight, did he see the
slightest intimation of a change in the present objectionable
system. Had he perceived such
a change even prospectively
held out, he should have hesitated in the record of his present
vo'e, hut in the absence of all such pledge or anticipation, he
believed that the increase of the present system would be but
the encouragement of error, and its furtherance the promotion
of principles repugnant to the Scriptures and the tenets of the
Established Church. The framing of the Bill was one of the
most important events in the history of this country. If the
measure were passed, it would lead to the endowment of all
religious systems. and would lead to the acknowledgement that
the State was not a competent authority to judge on the sub-
ject of religion. This, he held, was the first step to link the State
to the Roman Catholic religion. He would beg to remind their
Lordships that the original endowment of Maynooth was not
that it should lie considered a grant from the State, but merely
as a perpetuation of the grants of pious individuals for the pur-
poses of Roman Catholic education. This view of the grant
was supported by the Noble Duke (the Duke of Wellington)
when Sir Arthur Wellesley, and by a late pious and active op-
ponent of the detestable traffic of negro slavery, Mr. Stephens
He judged not of the feelings of other parties, but pledged as
he was to oppose all heresies and errors. and to call upon others
to do the same, bow was it possible for him to support such an
endowment as that proposed ? (Hear, hear.) It might be
said that by supporting the Regium Donuts' he was supporting
Arianism, but if Arianism was taught at the College
of Belfast, it was no part of the original understanding, whereas
Mat nooth College was established avowedly to teach the doc-
trines if the Roman Catholic religion. With regard to the
grants to the Roman Catholics of Canada, which had been re-
ferred to as a parallel case, he might say that that was
not 'the case, as the grant to the Roman . Catholics
here existed prior to the war by which those
colonies were united to the Crown of Great Britain. H. e
gave full credit to her Majesty's Government for
the best in-
' tentions in introducing this measure, and he admitted that it
was brought forward by them to pacify the irritation and ex-
citement which prevailed in that country. He confessed that
lie did not himself see what principle Ireland was to be governed
on—( Hear, hear)—yet still he considered that whatever might
be the difficulties of their position, they should act upon
principle, leaving the result in the hands of the Great Ruler
of Events.
The Earl of St. GERMANS thought that the Noble Lord
who had addressed the House, and the Right Reverend
Prelate who had just sat down, had altogether mistaken the
nature of the grant. If they looked at the Act of 1795,
they would find that a provision was made for the education of
the Roman Catholic priesthood. This grant, both before and
after the Uuion, had been annually voted. It had been voted
by every Parliament for the last fifty years, and thus, upon the
faith of successive Protestant Parliaments, and, among others,
by those in which Mr. Pitt was Prime Minister, had the grant
been conceded ; and he (Lord Germans) did not see any distinc-
tion between the grant as given heretofore, and as now proposed
to be taken from the Consolidated Fund. With regard to the
objections that had been urged against the system of educa-
tion pursued at Maynooth he would refer to the Commissioners
that had inquired into the state of education in Ireland, and
who had referred specially to Maynooth College. He stated
the course of education pursued there was not such as had
been represented, and bore evidence to the fact, that the doc-
trine of Divice allegiance and submission to the Pope in
Itemporal affairs was not taught in that institution.—(Hear,
hear.) There were, no doubt, many imperfections in the
system of education pursued there, and parties who issued
from thence had taken part in the violent political proceed-
ings which had recently distracted Ireland, but this evil had
arisen from the meagre and imperfect system of education which
had prevailed there, and which the present measure proposed to
remedy. Was it a matter of astonishment that priests, placed in
the midst of a starving population, and imperfectly educated,
should he led away by the wiles of agitators? The Noble
Earl alluded to Bishop Higgins; but Bishop Higgins was not a
student at Maynooth, but had been educated at Rome or
Paris. The College was established when Jacobinical princi-
ples were rite, and there were a great many of them then—a
very censiderable number indeed—inferior in rank and educa-
tion
to the present class of Irish clergy, and who were called
" hedge priests." he Irish priests were at least attentive to
their flocks, and when pain and anguish wrung the brow" of