The Sun.
London, England, 1829-04-03 00:00:00

at rest, but adjusted ,avisfacterilv. It it were not, let it
be remembered what might be the situation of the
country? ,Let it ~he borne. in mind, what iwonld
he the ,influence op , the iira?ulation of, a neighbour.:
i;arcictuar;y toe tower orders :
should they be able to force men from that country into
their army and navy ? They who had heretofore rushed
to fill their tanks and to man their fleets. Thus it would
be aren, if ere influence of rejection were such, how greai
ti il;flt, be the real danger of the country-. But
fint only 'thighs:. the 4reat and serious dangef be exten
slim in nut being aide to. get • those men into our
army and navy, the diffieulty would operate in another
direction, for they must calculafti on having an atmy con-
stantly employed iii keeping finch a population down.,
(ftear.)--Then in either point of view the danger was ex-
cessive. If this Bill did not pass—if conciliation was not
now effected, the alarms that had been hinted at were
absurd, the dangers that hid been hinted were groundless;
they had been incfely put forward upon assumed asser-
tions-:—on the fact of a few Ronian Catholic Members
gaining admission into each House. Why, it would be, let
then atiiolitsbeerersosuccessful,lotolagainstthem: Then
how could they overturn the Protettant Religion ? The
assertion was preposterous, and the argument was ridicu-
lous. He would now come to what had been the state of
Ireland ; he would not say what it was, because the pros-
. .

pert of the measures had already greatly !t. md. eliorate
the condition of that country.—,(Hear.)--z.Whtit had
been the laws afflicting that country? Why to kill an

Irishman was not murder ; a million might be killed, and
yet it was not murder. Was that calculated to make the
governed grateful or obedient to the governors?—
(Hear, hear.)—Then came the Reformation, but it was
no Reformation to Ireland. No effort was made to reform
rem`oily the ahusea of that unfortunate country. Were
such proceedings calculated to bring people from Popery to
Protestantism ? No ; they had seen the result, the faith
was continued from father to son—the Roman Catholic
religion continued there as strong as it was before the
Reformation. And did the reign of Queen Elizabeth do
any thing more for the benefit of Ireland? No, certainly
not. And again in the wretched reign of Charles I.
Ireland was once more conquered and doomed to fresh
calamities. The Revolution followed, but still secured no
benefits to Ireland. For this country that event secured
advantages. It adjusted differences between Catholics and
Protestants, or rather secured the Protestants, but the Re-
volution did nothing for Ireland. Under all these circum-
stancts, looking back and seeing how England had treated
Ireland, and remembering whit Ireland had lately done,
would it be safe, just, or politic, to leave that unhappy
country in its present anxious condition ? Wonld
it be right to do nothing for Ireland ? No man, he
tl:ought, would answer that inquiry in the affirmative.—
And be it remembered, as some excuse for the events of the
Revolution, is au explanation why the Catholics were
left in the condition of which they complained, the ob-
jects of the great men at that period were to keep the Co-
tholics tightly down. Why ? Because James had recently
lost his throne, and that on account of his adherence to
the Catholic faith. That event was then recent, and the
Sovereign who had abdicated still had many adherents to
his person and claims. Some of them were most powerful
their numbers were great, and there was a strong, exist-
ing, and alarming feeling. Then there was a great
pressing and obvious danger. All circumstances consi-
dered, he thought there was much reason to make allow-
ances for the events of such a period : but still, be it re-
membered, nothing was then done for Ireland. —(There
were some signs of impatience in the House.) Ile re-
gretted that he had occasion thus far to trespass
on the indulgence of their Lordships, but there
was one other point on which he wished to make a remark
or two : he meant the Coronation Oath. He denied that
it afforded any argument whatever for the Sovereign to
throw any obstacle in the way of this Bill. He main-
tained that there was nothing in the oath that did not
leave the King at perfect liberty to approve this Bill.
To deny that, was to deprive the Sovereign of his most
essential powers. The Oath bound the Sovereign to se-
cure the Bishops and Clergy in all their rights and privi-
leges. Why, good God ! what was there in this Bill to
affect those rights and privileges?—(Hear, hear.)—They
would not he affected or injured ; on the contrary, he
firmly believed that by conceding this measure those
rights and privileges would be strengthened. Certainly
those rights and privileges of the Bishops and Clergy
would not be affected by this Bill ; they would afterwards
remain what they now were—and quite as secure.—
(Hear.)— On all these, grounds the Bill now before their
Lordships had his most cordial concurrence.

The Earl of HAREWOOD next addressed their Lord-
ships, but in so low a tone of voice that hut little of what
he said could be heard below the Bar. We understood his
Lordship to say that whatever might have been his feelings
on the Catholic Question ; those feelings had been consi-
derably increased since the present Bill had come before
Parliament. What, he woad ask, were the reasons assigned
for giving the Catholics political power? they were told
it was on the ground of expediency ; from what was
that argument drawn? Certain proceedings bad taken
place in Ireland, which had the effect of bringing that
country into an organized state. They were under the
influence of :the Catholic Association, when a Bill vasbrought before the House for the purpose of putting down
that Association; what were the grounds on which that Bill
was introduced ? It was because a power existed in Ireland
which should not be suffere d to exist in that country.
'I hose persons who had so declared, also told you that
they would support the Association, unless other measures
were conceded.—( The Noble Lord was here for some
time inaudible. - When we again caught his Lordship's
voice, he proceeded as follows)—Atty thing like the As-
cendancy of Catholicism was inconsistent with the
principles of civil and religious liberty—(Hear.)—
and every part of the Bill seemed to declare
that Catholicism was daugerous to the State. He heartily
wished that the measure might turn out well, but there
was nothing like a sect"' ity that it would do so, or he
would vote fir the measure with cheerfulness. After a
few more observations, his Lordship resumed his seat.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE then rose and spoke
as follows :—My Lords, I offer myself to the attention
of the House on the present occasion, because I feel
that if I did not do so it would be construed into a
dereliction of that duty which I have for so many
years performed in this Honse, and upon this im-
portant question. I feel it incumbent on me to restate,
and I will do so as shortly as possible, the grounds on which
I have advocated the Catholic claims and the opinions
which I have for so long a time entertained. The danger
attending the refusal of those claims has been year after
year iocreasing up to the very time when his Majesty's
Ministers determined to take them into coneidera-
tion..—(llear, hear, hear. )—The Noble Lord had
said, that he could bring himself to grant every
thing to the Catholics except political power. I thought
then that political power was already obtained by the Ca-
tholies, and I also think that this measure will re
move that power which exists, and has manifested itself
for the purposes of mischief. It exists in the immediate
contact with the Protestant community and in spite of a
Protestant aristocracy. The Noble Earl, however, be-
fore he sat down, bad answered his own argument, for
headmitted that in Ireland the C &toile Association had fixed
itself so firmly that it went even the length of throwing out
threats against the King's Government, which it would
never dared to have done but for the artificial system
of government in that country. The Noble Lord had at-
tempted to point out the inconsistency of the measure, in-
asmuch as it tended to extinguish certain powers, while
it conferred others of the same description. It was
said that this Association should he put down. But it was
impossible to extinguish it, unless they connected the aloes
from which it was formed with the Legislature and gave
them the means of asserting their rights, and making known
their grievances through the only legal channel. The means
of doing so their Lordships had heard, and in his opinion
they were means conducive to the safety of the Church
and State.—( Hear, hear.)—The Right Reverend Pre-
late at the head of the Church of Ireland, had
addressed some observations to the noose, and stated that
the whole question turned upon the possibility of this
measure giving tranquillity to Ireland. Now I close
with that proposition, and if it can be shown
that it is not calculated to produce tranquillity,
I mast withdraw that support which I have always given
to the Catholic claims.—(Hear, hear.)—The Right
Reverend Prelate had stated as a reason for opposing
this question, that he had perceived in a newspaper,
in which his Majesty's Speech was announced,
an account of certain proceedings which had happened
ulterior to the time when his Majesty's recommendation
was read from the throttle. These proceedings attributed
to the Catholics an intention of pushing their claims beyond
even that truly liberal measure which was recently brought
before them. Ile aloi truly said that the agitators had
originated these proceedings, and that the opinion of
the Catholic nobility was of a more moderate de-
scription ; but that they had no influence among the
Association. Now, then, I ask, why is it that they have
had no influence ? Why is that they to whom every society
looks to temper popular ebullitions, and to extinguish
feuds where they exist, how is it that their influence
should be of no avail, and that the communication which
they have formed between the Government and people
should be cut off ?_(Long and continued cheers.)—l
here deny, my Lords, that this will give power
to the Catholic*. Its principal effect will be beneficial;