The Sun.
London, England, 1842-02-22 00:00:00

THE SUN,
__LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING. FEBRUARY 22, 1842

rental of laud amounted to. 6,500,0001. ; in 1841, the rental
was 200,000,000/.; he should think, therefore, that they might
lie prepared to pay something towards the poor-rates.--( Hear.)
u'roi,is 1810 to t SlO, there were upwards of 1,000 enelosure
s'sets passed, and no less than 6,840,540 acras of land had been
enclosed; he thought, thin, that whatever burdens the landed
aristocracy might say they endured, they ale ays
took very good (-are of themselves.—(Cries of " Hear.")
In a town in Derbyshire he remembered to have seen a slgte
upon which was painted the king in his robes, with a scroll t.o
this effect, " I govern all ;" near him was painted the Arch-
bishop of Canterbury, with the inscription, "I pray for all;''
next was a field-officer, with the inscription, " I fight. for all ;"
and then at the bottom was a person dressed in a smock frock.
suoported by a plough and a harrow, who was good enough to
tsl'l them he " paid for all."—(Laug ;ter.) The landlords. he
contended, did not bear more than their 'air proportion of the
ourdens of the country; he should say oti the contrary, that
instead of paying all. all paid for them.—( Laughter.) He be-
lieved that the beggars in the street paid more than their pro-
portion of taxation, for the benefit of those who were
placed by the bounty r f Providence in the enviable situa-
tion of landed proprietors By an Act of Parliament,
passed in the reign of Queen Elizabeth, any soldier or marine
who was found begging in the streets was liable to be punished
by death ; that law hail been repealed as a disgrace to our legis-
lation ; but he believed that a law which restricted the food of
the people was no less cruel, unwise, and unjust. He was not
disposed to tax the landed interest with selfish or avaricious mo-
tives—he thought that they were merely mistaken in their opi-
nions. He did not tax them with injustice, but he taxed them
with ignorance. Blessed by Providence with all ths comforts
and luxuries of life, they were not aware of the many miseries
and wants to which a large portion of their fellow-countrymen
were subjected. He wished the Members of the Goeernment
had taken care to make themselves persocally acquainted with
the wants of the humbler classes. He wished they might visit
Birmingham, Manchester, Paisley, Liverpool, and other towns;
arid that they might pass from Liverpool across the Channel to
that country so important to us in every point of view, and
which the Right Honourable Baronet had declared to be
the chief difficulty of his Government. Now a difficulty
it would continue to be to any Government which (lid not
administer to its people full and impartial justice.—( Hear. )
He wished Hon. Gentlemen would visit Ireland, not to see
Wicklow or Killarney, but to inquire into the misery and dis-
til esa which existed in that country to au amount of which he
had no conception till he had been quartered there.—( Hear,
hear.) They would also see that misery and distress borne
with a fortitude and resignation, which, if it was ever equalled,
was certainly never surpassed. —( Hear, hear.) And he
thought if they had seen it they would soon come forward
with a remedy to alleviate it.—( Hear, hear.) He might be told .
that any alteration of the Corn-laws would he the ruin of Ire-
land. He (Captain Layard) entirely denied that statement.
A sliding scale might ruin it, but a fixed duty would be a boon
and a benefit.--( Hear, hear.) It was the gambling specula-
tor, and not the Irish agriculturist, who gained by the present
system. He begged to say one word with respect to the Hon.
Member for North Lincolnshire, who seemed to him act to the
!part of the dog in the fable of the " Dog and the Shadow."
_-(Laughter.) He could assure them there was no fear to the
people of this country from relaxing the present restrictive
Corn-laws, but if they persevered in upholding them, he was
certain that if there was truth in the opinion that " coming
events cast their shadows before," the handwriting would be
seen on the wall, and their kingdom would be taken from
them.—( Hear, hear ) With regard to those who held the
reins of Government, he could not help thinking that they
lot a golden opportunity of reaping a rich reward for them-
selves by feeding the hungry and relieving the suffering people
of the country ; but he believed the time was approaching
when they should•grant to the people what they unwisely de-
nied to their petitions.--(Cheers. )
Mr. SMYTHE said that he considered the Hon. and Gal-
lant Member who sat down, and the Hon. and Gallant Mem-
ber who preceded him, acted wisely in rejecting all proposi-
tions and assenting to none, but he (Mr. Smythe) would en-
deavour to prove the inconsistency of such a line of conduct.
The lion. Member for Wolverhampton had told them that
the ell', et of repealing the Co,!•n•laws would be to throw a great
deal of land out of cultivation, while the Hon. Member for
Stockport had told them that, in his opinion, the value of land
would be considerably diminished, and that there would be a
restriction of capital to agricultural objects on the Continent.
If such were the case, no one would pretend to tell him that
the producers of this country would be able to compete with the
producers of the Continent. There was a great discrepancy
of opinion between those who told them that the agricultural
interest was suffering under great and peculiar burdens and
those who said that they had no such burdens to complain of.
Mr. Ricardo, in his work on agriculture, in an argument in fa-
your of a drawback, said, that in allowing this drawback •
they merely returned to the farmer a tax which was already
p dd, and which he must have t.o place him in a situation to
compete with the foreign producer. Not less inconsistent were
those who denounced all protection, and who yet voted with
the advocates for a fixed protection. There was an-
other inconsistency between those who advocated a
repeal of the Corn-laws, because they believed t'At
it would extend the home market, and those who aslvoested
it because they believed it would extend the foreign market.
Now if the House would dispassionately consider the proposi-
tit.n of the Right 114. n. Baronet, they would see that finding
that the agricultural interest hAi been too much protected,
he p ()poseur to abate it, but gradually—a course that had been
adopted in 'imilar cases in foreign countries, and referred to,
not in reprobation, but as en example, by Mr. M'Ciregar, in
his evidence before the Import Duties Committee: That
Gentleman stated that Austria, considering that her manti
factures were inordinately favoured, imposed a maximum duty
of 20 per cent. on foreign manufactures. In like manner the
Right 1-lon. Baronet proposed a maximum duty of 20s. per
quarter on foreign cern. But, truly, the best praise of the
Right Hon. Baronet's measure was, that it had displeased the
extreme men of both parties. HoWever, as an argument for
the justice of the Right Hon. Baronet's course, he (Mr. S.)
would remind the House, that in 1802, 1803, and 1804, which
were marked by agricultural improvement and' encourage-
ment, the average price of wheat was 61s. ; in 1823. by no
means a bad year, it was 51s. 9d. Taking into consideration
the cheapness of labour since that time, the improvements in
agricultural science, anti the reduction of taxation, he would
now put it to those Honourable Members who feared that
the landed interest were hardly dealt with, whether from the
same soil, wheat could not now he raised at much less expense.
But he would also put it on another and a kindlier ground.
He would remind them of what they owed to the manufac-
tures—( Hear, hear)—to them they owed the splendour, the
power, the prosperity' of the country.—(Cheers.) And in
reference to what had' been said by the Hon. Member for
Knaresborough, he must warn those to whom it appeared
that it was the time for the agriculturists to indulge in Quixotic
aggressions, whieh originated in, •spurious and hypocritical
benevolence—( Hear. hear)—this was not the time to re-
ject God's gifts-,-(Cheers)—this was not the time to reject .
the blessings of machinery.—( Cheers.) But for it Birmingham
and Manchester would be like Woodstock and Dunstable.—
Hear, hear)—and Liverpool would still be a fishing village.—
Hear, hear ) Look to the imperial Augsburg, of which it
was said that it was more magnificent and great when the
sound of the hammer and the mill-wheel was in a perpetual din,
than when it was the seat of imperial grandeur. The rent of
the adjacent land was ten times as high.—( Hear, hear.) For
his own part, in looking to the working of this question, he had
come to the conclusion that there had been but four Ministers
who had dealt with this question in the spirit which the people
had at right to expect. These were Lord North; afterwards
Mr. Canning, who was unsuccessful in the measure which he
proposed in 1827 ; and lie thought the Noble Lord opposite
(Lord J. Russell) was entitled to a full mend of credit for the
measure which he proposed last year.—( Hear, hear.) But he
thought, however, that the Right Hon. Baronet had a still
higher claim for the measure which haul been laid before the
Committee.—(Hear.) He was glad to see an end approach
to the unjust system of protection—(Hear, hear)—by which
so much bad land had been broken up—by which our commerce
had been crippled, and so much wealth amassed with little
labour and little merit.—( Hear, hear.) He wns glad to see
that this monopoly and another als Hear)—would be
broken up and trampled in the dust.—( Hear, hear.) He had
been sent to Parliament to represent, it no directly, at least
indirectly, 16,000 consumers, • and he could testify not only to
the distress which prevailed amongst them, but to the grati-
tude with which they would receive any boon.—( Hear, hear.)
The assertion of the people's rights is eonsistent And nature!,
whereas opposition to them is inconsistent and unnatural—the
Hon. Member for Bradford had, the other night, pronounced a
well-merited panegyric upon tins country—he described her as
the mistress of one-sixth of the earth and the entire of the seas.
How could it be said t here that she, was not able to protect the in-
dustry'of her sons?—( Hear.) What could be more melancholy than
that the distress which is now so general throughout the
country was owing to the idleness of the people—not to their
negligence or inactivity but to over-production—to over in-
dustry-.to the over exercise of those arts and sciences, and of
those talents, for which the people of England have lung been
celebrated—

Lex est artificis, arte perire AIM
( Hear, hear) It was melancholy that the industry of the
people should be the cause of their distress ; but he hailed the
measure now proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet as an in-
stalment.—( Cheers', and counter cheers.) Yes, he hailed
that measure as an instalment of a wiser and a more thoughtf
course of policy.—(Loud cheers and counter cheers. )
He entertained an anxious hope that that measure would serve,
the country, and he looked upon it as an earnest, that the pro-
portions of their monstrous tariff would be reduced to some-
thing of a seemly shape.—( Hear, and cheers.) He trusted that
the 'tight lion. Baronet would carry out his projects without
inflicting a calamitous burthen of additional taxes upon the
starving people of this country. If the measure proposed by
the Right Hon. Baronet werecarried ire() effect, it might sava
the people of England from destitution and misery. England
was pre-eminent in power—pre-eminent for her arts and sciences.
but those advantages would be scarcely a guarantee
for the preservation of her interests. It was he believed
Dryden, who said that he had heard of many virtuous per-
sans ending unfortunately, but he had never heard of a virtuous
nation ending so. It was to be hoped that the calamities of
misfortune would not weigh down this country; and if the
Right lion. Baronet had accomplished his objects without
appealing to the passions or the prejudices of the people, his
best reward would be the universal gratitude of a relieved—a
free and a contented people.—(Cheers.) •
Mr. MAC AULAY said that many expressions had fallen
from the Hon. Member who had just sat down— and he con-
sidered them the best parts of his speech—which he hardly
knew how they would be taken by those with whom he would
divide on the present occasion. Per himself, he had never on
any former occasion addressed the House on this subject ; and
the course he should think it his duty to take this night made
him very desirous that he should not be misunderstood. He
thought., also, that something was due on this occasion to the
great constituent body he had the honour to represent, and
and which on this subject entertained a . feeling peculiarly in •
tense. The House would permit him perhaps to soy, that there
was no constituent body more entitled on this subjet to a favour-
able hearing, for there was, perhaps, no constituted hotly, no city
in the kingdom, containing a hundred and twenty thou, and inha-
bitants, somuch in a situation to be an impartial judge of the
question. He had heard with great pain ;the sarcasms that
had been thrown out against the manufacturing interest—sa•-
casms thrown out against great communities engaged in com-
merce. But against the people of Edinburgh such sarcasms I
would fall pointless, for Edinburgh was a capital c ty, a city
havingl.eh no manufactures, a city having no foreign trade, a city
which was supported principally by its connection with the
administration of the law by its connection with the Univer-
sity, by its liteiatme, by its society, and the attractions ant!
facilities it held out to the gentry of a whole kingdom, who were
in twhheuhidabhiet
(oliffltto repairing thither during a portion of every year,
It
an equal extent, could be enstaiotn,aainyysaciodosttuithuaelnet body
intdywehreiesht but
that Which it had in common with the whole empire. Its in-
teresta,y,thsav at saitthhahtugwha'
n than th •
h:ichshetrwpaesoicaoemomfon to all ; and he could truly
theirin h
disapprobationqttesti
eir approbation
to takeon-
he should think it dutyhisongEdinburgh took an interest
of
hiassei, his . et he expected rather
Should the great body feel r
presentt c o u roseecwa
ai cal
.1
of his Hots. Friend the
that conduct, yet lie oid not feel.ostituents not feel satisfied with
that motion, nevertheless, he imheart fur liberty‘v otiov,s,ruip,apoinrit)ttahne motion
With
a romnoetti on
ethaagtreed in principle, and as he
plan of theu Right Hon. Baronet. His
v,.agreedwas
he
opposed in principle
e principle
understooddifference wtihth6 the Right
unds alflotnh.e
tneasure to be principles on
was fundamental doanm e
which he was sure, it the Right
Baronet should feel him-
self to bells error, he would see it".
to be an error of the most
fatal kind g
Ile understood the round s of the measure to be
based on' this priaciple, that the cheapness
of
life was not uniformly essential to the prosperity
of the necessu ies
of a people. The Right Hon. Baronet,
inth o and
most distinct

manner said that he should be deluding the people if he held
out from this, or from any similar change, a hope of relief. He
said it was a mistake to suppose that cheap food necessarily
had a tendency to promote the prosperity of the people.
Now, if on 0 at paint the Right. Honourable Baronet was
wrong, he 'Oust admit that he had founded his measure on false
erneiples. The Right Honourable Baronet had distinctly
disclaimed all intention of benefiting one class mere than
others. They had heard no talk from him about the consti-
tutional grounds on which one class should be protected to
enable them to support the dignity of their state. Such
doctrines were not only not brought forward on the present
occasion. but he (Mr. Macaulay) understood the Right Ho.
nourable Baronet, disclaimed all such doctrines. He under-
stood that he considered this subject with a view to the general
prosperity. If it then were the fact that cheapness of food
was always a blessing to the people who enjoyed it, he ( Mr.
Macaulay) conceived the measure of the Right Honourable
Baronent not to be defensible. On that matter, certainly,
the political economists had the advantrige. For certainly
the general opinion of mankind, from the earliest. ages to the
present time, decided that the cheapness of food was a blessing.
That was the deeply-rooted conviction of all countries. He
need not refer to the Hebrew Scriptures, as some had dune, for.
the purpose of deciding this question. The oldest documents
and historical authorities contained the clearest proof of the
ihelings of mankind on this subject down to our own times.
No person was better acquainted with the histories of Greece
and home than the flight lion. Baronet, nor could better fur-
nish proofs of the feelings of those nations on this subject.
When one found a labouring man makings 40h a-year for the
support of himself, his wife, and family, would one say that a
difference of 8/. a-year, being 11. on each of the eight quarters
required for the sustenance of his family was not material ?
That was only a prima facie case ; and how did the Right lion.
Baronet meet it? Why, the other night the Right Ho-
nourable Baronet came forward, after the sense of all
ages and nations had been otherwise expressed, to show
that cheapness of food was not necessarily a benefit to the
people The arguments of the Right Hen. Gentleman were
simply these—that there were countries in which food was
cheaper than in England, and yet the people were not so well
off. The countries mentioned were Prussia and Belgium. If
the Right lion. Baronet used any other argument than that in
opposition to the sense entertained and expressed by the world
during 4,000 or 5,000 years, with respect to the advantages of
cheap food, such en argument would receive his (Mr. Ma-
caulay's) most particular attention. Nor was the argument ab•
solutely worth anything—was it even plausible ?—( Hear, hear.)
The doctrine he (Mr. M.) affirmed was, that cheap food was
a blessing to a nation, in the same way that health was a
blessing to an individual. Of course a snail might be in the
enjoyment of excellent health, and yet, from peculiar circum-
stances, such as family embarrassments or a stain upon his
character, he might be worse off than another man who
was ill. But that did not go to disprove the general
position, that the man who was in the enjoyment of health
was better off than the man who was labouring under disease,
and that the invalid, who enjoyed other blessings, would cer-
tainly
have those blessings greatly enhanced- by the
enjoyment of health.—(l-lear, hear, and cheers.) The
flight Honourable Baronet's argument went to destroy
all belief in good and evil. It was the same thing as saying
that fertility of soil was no good to a country. Suppose they
possessed the power by legislative enactment, which they did
not, of making the barren moors and mountain tops of Scotland
as fertile as the vale of Taunton, the Right Hon Baronet, upon
his principle, would be bound to tell them it was their duty to
abstain from doing so. He would tell them to look at the state
of Scotland and of Bengal—Bengal, a country so fertile, that
they had regularly three harvests every year, and yet where the
labourer could not enjoy from• his earnings one half the luxuries
and comforts thats are enjoyed by the. Scottish peasant. The
Right Hon. Baronet, pointing to the fertility of Bengal,
and the state of the labourer, then would say that it was
their duty to abstain from the endeavours to make Scotland as
fertile as Bengal. In considering this question the Right
Hon. Baronet had kept out of view all those modifying circum-
stances to which he wet bound to have paid attention before in-
stituting the comparison--circumstances all-important in the
consideration of such a question. Apart from good government,
the security of property, internal order, the colleciion of im-
mense) masses of machinery, the enjoyment of civil and
religious liberty, the immense wealth of our minea—
a 11 these had been entirely left out of the question
by the Right Hon. Baronet, and he had produced merely one
single argument, which he had urged against the general
sense of all ages, and of all nations.--( Cheers.) There was
one single point in the comparison between England and
Prussia which had been instituted by the Right Hon. Baronet,
to which he (Mr. M.), would direct the attention of the
Committee, which had been wholly passed over by the Right
Hon. Baronet; that was our insular position, and our m ,ri-
time supremacy, which was the consequence of that position.
—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) We had never within the
memory of any owe living seen an enemy in this country.
Our fathers had never seen such a thing. With the exception
of the march of the Highland clans to Derby in the years 1745
and 1746, they must go back fur centuries to find the time
when Englishmen had seen a foreign enemy in this country.—
( Cheers.) Could the like be said of Prussia. ?—( Cheers. )
Why, in the memory of many now living 50 pitched battles had
been fought in that country, and withit the memory of many of
those who now heard him, in one year, 13,000 housei in Prussia
had been seduced to ashes by a foreign inroad.—(Hear,
hear.) Rut were they, thereforerin instituting a comparison
between the people of Prussia and England, to say that cheap-
ness was no blessing?—(Cheers.) If the Right Hon. Baronet
had said that there was a necessary connection between cheap-
ness of bread arid lowness of wages, he might have made some-
thing out of that. But he was not aware diet the Richt Hon.
Baronet had made such an assertion, and he (Mr. Macaulay)
was by no means disposed to admit the existence of any such
Connection, for he had seen within the-last few months the price
of bread much raised in this country, hut wages had not risen
in proportion. Besides, every fact refuted an argument
founded on the assumption of such a connection. It was true
that :in Prussia corn was cheaper than it was in England, and
wages were lower; but it was equally true that on the banks
of the Ohio corn was much cheaper even than it was in Prussia,
and wages were twice as high. —(Loud cheers.) It was
therefore perfectly clear from experience that the mere cir-
cumstance of the 'slice of provisions being low would not cause
v:ages to descend. He (Mr. :Macaulay) conceived that the
Right Hon. Baronet had shown no reason against the principle
that to the people it was a blessing to have cheap
food, and, 'as he had founded his measure upon that
principle, his measure was against him. lie (Mr. :Macaulay)
equally dissented from the other propositions on which the
Right Hon. Baronet had raised his measure. He denied the
doctrine the Right Hon. Baronet had laid (town with respect
to the importance of being independent of foreign countries.
He would not argue the question whether they could be per-
fectly independent. That would be a good state of things. It
was unnecessary to argue that question, because the Right
Hen. Baronet himself admitted that perfectly independent they
could not be. It seemed to him that it could all
but be demonstrated that it was utterly impossible '
for a nation in which corn was grown to be per-
fectly independent. He would suppose that 25,005,000
quarters of corn was the supply required annually by the peo-
ple of this country ; such being the ease, it was clear that, in
order certainly to have that quantity always at commaad, it
would be necessary to sow such a quantity of corn, that in
years that were better than the average years they should have
a larger. quantity. Such a circumstance must be taken into
consideration when the nature of the product was considered,
and also 'the nature of the season. Such a course must be '
adopted in order to have a certain supply to so great an extent.
Corn was very different from manufactured commodities; they
might order 25,000,000 pairs of stockings arid be certain
of having them; but such was not the case with corn.
If they wished to have 25,000,000 of quarter:, certainly, they
must at times have an over quantity ; the only way, therefore,
in which they could be certain of always having 25,000,000
quarters for consumption, must be ruinous to the farming in-
terest ; it therefore seemed to him to be clear to demonstra-
tion that when once in the country the price of corn was dearer
than in others, independence was impossible, and experience
confirmed it. Formerly England was an exporting country,
but in later time, in spite of all improvements in agriculture.
the progress of population had gone on to such an extent as to
render it almost impossible for agriculture to supply
the wants of the people.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.")
The Right Honourable Baronet admitted that we were to be
dependent, but lie (Sir R. Peel) preferred casual dependence
to vonstant dependence; he (Mr. Macaulay) would say that
ha 'preferred constant dependence.—(Hear, hear.) lie pre-
ferred it partly for reasons which had been assigned by others
more ably than he (Mr. Macaulay) could have thine—he pre-
ferred it because constant dependence had a tendency to be •
come mutual dependence—and be preferred it because it wsuld
lead to the exportation of manufactures.—( Hear, hear.) If we
had casual dependence we must export the precious metals, and
those consequences which had been depicted by Mr. Huskisson
twenty years ago would result.—( Hear, hear.) But he like.
wise preferred it on the Right lion. Baronet's own ground.
'1 he Right Hon. Baronet and others had said that if we were
not independent we should remember that the harvests in
foreign countries were likely to be bad at the same sea-
son that they were bad here. They would find by
experience that the probability was that if we de-
pended on them, when a bad harvest came, they
would shut their ports; but those were the very years when
we must be dependent—the Right Hon. Baronet admitted there
must be casual dependence, and that world be the time when
we must be dependent.—( Hear, hear.) He believedthe system
which the Right Hon. Baronet proposed to adopt would have a
tendency to produce those evil..; but though it happened that
in countries situated near to each other the harvests were
generally bad at the same time, it was by no means the case
that when the harvests of England were bed the harvests on
the banks of the Ohio would be bad too.--s( Hear hear, )
Could anything be more clear, than that next to independence
—and, indeed, almost the same thing—was a very wide de-
pendence—a dependence on the whole world ?—( Hear, hear. )
fhe probability was against the supply failing simul-
taneously in all parts of the world. The only way to
have this wide dependence on the whole world was a constant
dependence, fos it was quite clear that under the Right lion.
Baronet's sliding scale, we could not have it—( Hear, hear)—
and an Hon. Gentleman on the other side had said that we
could not have it if the Right Hon. Baronet's measure were
carried out as it at tresent stood, and that we should not be
likely to have a supply from the United States. He confessed
that there might be a danger of being politically dependent in
consequence of being commercially dependent, but it was im-
possible to show any ground for its real existence. Experience
however, was spite clear on this point, and his Noble Friend the
Member for the City of laondon had mentioned en instance he
might have made stronger. He (Mr. Macaulay) believed
that the year in which the greatest import of corn was made
into England,that had ever been made in any year up to that
time, was the year 1810.-4 Hear, hear, from an Hon. Member
on the Ministerial benches.) 'Under the continental system.—
(Hear.) He was not so fortunate as to catch what the Hon.
Gentleman said, but he believed these facts to be perfectly
obvious—that in the year 1810 England imported about
1,600,000 quarters of wheat ;. that of those 1,600,000 quarters
of wheat absut 800,000 came from France itself.—( Hear, hear.)
That the rest came from countries that were then provinces of
France. For observe what the year 1810 was. It was the very
i height of the continental system. That system was then
screwed up• to its • very utmost rigour. It was in
the beginning of 1810 that Bonaparte deposed from the throne
of Holland his own brother Louis, for not carrying that system
Into effect. Denmark acted upon the system, and, as far as he
knew, it was not from America that any part of that supply
came which was deserving of attention. Now, were we ever
likely to be placed in such a situation again ? Was it probable
that there would ever be again s'ich a combination against us—
the whole of Europe united against us under a chief of such
extraordinary rao
hisrdiiintaterby
seabbilaittryeda and f energy,thiscountry,
and his detertnina-
and distinguished above all
Lion to attack that country by means of its trade and corn.-
merce? And•yet in such a Government, and in the very year
when the severity of that Government was screwed up to the
very highest point, in that very year we imported into England,
and from his own domionins, a greater quantity of corn than
had ever been imported into England before.—( Hear, hear. )
That circumstance, until he heard some , xplanation of it, which
he had never yetheard, that circumstance seemed to him verycon-
soling with respect to the effect of that commercial dependence.
' He thought that, in a certain degree, the mutual dependence of
nations was a great blessing; and he fully agreed with all that
was so eloquently and forcibly said the other night by his Noble
Friend, the Member for Tiverton. He could Trot but consider
it as one of the most consolatory facts, as one of those things
which ought to lead them to entertain the best hopes for their
the
country, when hesaw, in remote and fertile parts of the world,
s population
whose most lucrative employment
wilderness into corn fields, multiplying was turning
at suds a rate that it
doubled every two or three .and twenty years. He did not knew
what limit they were to place to the prosperity of a 'country

whose skill, whose machinery, whose vast accumulations of ca-
• pital enabled it 'to supply the whole world with manufactured
articles. Whatever the 'distress might be here, however unfa-
vourable the seasons, people were at work to save our population
from starving. All along the banks of the Mississipi and the
Missouri ; all along the Euphrates, in those countries where coal
perhaps did not exist, where there was scarely any capital,
there were people looking forward to cutlery and clothing.
and a thousand comforts of life coming from their skill ; and
then stepped in the Legislature, and said, "No, you who
ought to he manufacturers for the whole world, shall be turned
into ploughmen ; and you, who ought to be producers of corn
for the world, shall he turned, against your will, into manu-
facturers ; you shall not buy from them, you shall undersell
them." In a time of distress they had at one end of the
world artisans starving, in order that barren fields might be
forced to yield a small return for an enormous outlay ; while at
the other end of the world they had persons who could be most
beneficially employed in sowing corn ; they had been making
bad coats and had snives , and all this that a particular class
might be benefited at the expense of every other.—( Hear.) '
This was a subject which they had been cautioned against en •
terine upon by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member
for Bradford ; hut he ( Mr. Macaulay) could not refrain from
touching it, although he hoped lie should do so in such a mari-
ner that no one could condemn the spirit in which he spoke.
It was not possible for us to shut our eyes to the remote poli-
tical consequences of such a state of things. The people had
borne their privations patiently—they had borne their disaps
pointments patiently, for with regard to those little exhibi-
tions of feeling to which allusion had been made, he thought as
s
teilhvit,ahl
tat: ritiehti df
via,:
eyes
rrtyethhv
etrelr,inei iidgt
to
thoy Right
ht ajotim any srro,gt
hpneeetrt
fhtllrtu
awrs
future
ominous—any
littlehrt
n:l:hgooehuftsst_hohofeaulmnil dye asms
sign
nh,
law, of
of order, ought to contemplate with uneasiness, it was one
which he saw so very generally hailed with acclamation by those
gentlemen who professed the strongest attachment to the princi-
plea Conservative policy.—( Hear.) He knew of nothing
that seemed to him more alarming than the obstinacy and
the enihusasm with which some persons, to whom he could
give no better name than that of incendiaries—persons who
professed doctrines subversive of all order and all property_
labour to prevent a settlement of the question of the Corn-
laws. Whenever he heard that by the advice of some noted
dealers in sedition, numbers of people, who were all Chartists,
had gone to break up meetings held for the purpose of peti-
Honing for a repeal of the Corn-laws, he looked upon it as a
sign, not of immediate danger, but still as a sign of serious
danger. For what reason could it be imagined that those whom
they (the Ministerial Members) agreed with on that side of the
liou.e, in designating 113 incendiaries and sowers of sedition were
desirous of preventing an alteration in what they considered an
abuse ? Did that proceed from a love of the landed aristo-
cracy, or of any other interests connected with the aristocracy ?
They all knew the aristocracy ; nay, they knew that the
people in their own addresses talked most bitterly against those
very Corn-lase. And yet if a meeting were called in almost
' any of the great towns in this country to petition against
the Corn-laws, those men would more Heaven and earth
to cause that meeting to fail; and for what purpose?
Evidently for this ; they knew perfectly well that however much
the people might complain of the effects of the.present partition
of power and of Government—however much they might feel
about abuses merely political, there was very little danger
that unless they had such a grievance as the Corn-law to work
upon, they would never raise the people against the established
order of things.. They knew that the most torraidable rebel-
lions were the rebellions or the belly.—( Hear, hear.) He
(Mr. M.) firmly believed that it was not by chance
but by deliberation, and with . a serious purpose, •
that those parties wished to have the Corn-laws part of our in-
stitutions, in order that some day or another those Corn-laws
might be the death of our institutions.—( Loud cries of " Hear,
heir.") He believed that they wished this abuse to remain
part of our laws, in order that some day or another-_that day
he prayed they might never see--this abuse and our laws
might perish together.—( Cheers.) There was also another
circumstance connected with the question, to which he wished
to refer. The Hon. and Learned Member for Bradford had
warned them not to draw any parallel from France and the
French Revolution. The Hon. and Learned Member would ex-
cuse him if he alluded to the subject in a manner of which
he could not complain. If they observed the history of the
French Revolution, the first thing that would strike them was,
that that revolution was not merely brought about by the
lower classes. It was not a mere movement of the Faubourg
St. Antoine. If the labouring classes, had not, in the first in-
stance, and great part of the higher and aristocratic classes at
their head, they could have dune nothing. But the feuds en-
gendered by all sorts of vexatious distinctions between the landed
aristocracy on the one hand, and the monied and
commercial class's on the other, were these which
enabled the first end, of the wedge to enter. Whi e a
whole empire like this was united, he could not fear the
result of any insurrection ; but he could not but feel uneasy when
he saw all those topics which, in other countries, and ages, had
been confined to the lowest disturbers, now being .agitated
by men worth twenty thousand a year—(Cheers)—it was im-
possible for him not to fear, when he heard the manufacturers
crying out that the landlords were grinding the faces of the
poor, and, on the other hand, men of great landed property
denouncing the manufacturers as they had been denounced in
that House, ever since the present debate had commenced.—
( Oh, and No, no.) lie would venture to say that no expres-
sion could he more unjustifiable as used by a manufacturer
against the landholders than what Hon. Members had heard in
the course of the present discussion, coming from the mouth of
the Hon. Member for Knaresborough against the manu-
facturing body.—( Cheers, and No, no.) He (Mr. Al.) was
quite willing that the truth of this assertion should
he left to the judgment of all those who heard and read that
attack.—(Cheers.) Now, therefore, we had arrived at a most
serious stage in the interests of this country. He did not ap-
prehend the dangerous issue that he feared would occur to-
•meerow, or next year, or five years hence ; but he would say
that it was impossible that this country could safely -follow up
a system which they saw had the effect of arousing
,and pro-
voking the violent passions of multitudes, while at the same
time it promoted division, rivalry, and animosity amongst the
two great classes of proprietors in the country. Therefore it
was of the greatest importance that this question should be
satisfactorily settled. Yet that which was proposed as satis-
factory was not even contended to be so en the ether side.—
(Cheers.) Even the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary for
the Home Department abjured all notions of finality.
—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Gentleman now laid
it down as a wise system .that we shoul•I legislate
gradually, and in bit by bit reforms... The present measure he
would take as an instalment; but -if it were to be received as •
an instalment, he (Mr. Macaulay) should-consider it as an
instalment of little more than a farthing in the pound.—
(Laughter and cheers.) But was it. to be understood, now
that we were to have a Bill of this kind introducetlas often as
the Members of that House were summoned to assemble thither,
Were we doomed every year, or • every three years, to renew
discussions of this sort? Was it to be expected, that the first
Minister of the Crown would- again settle and again unfix
this great question ? The more he (Mr.. Macaulay) thought
on the Right Honourable Baronet's Bill, the less he (Mr. Ma-
caulay) confessed himself able to understand why. the Right
lion. Gentleman introduced it--(" Hear, " and cheers.) He
did not introduce it to please those who cried out for
a change in the .Corn-laws,' for it was clear that they
were not satisfied —( Hear, hear.) It was equally clear that
he could not have introduced it to please his own supporters,
for, though they would vote for him. and carry his Bill though,
there could be no doubt that nine-tenths of them would vote for
him with much greater pleasure if he refused all change.—
(Cheers, and cries of " No, no.") On this point he (Mr. Ma-
caulay) was content to defer to fhe judgment of those who ob-
served the silence of some gentleratm opposite, and in the House—
something very different from silence elsewhere. (Cheers
and laughter.) The Right Honourable Baronet himself had
avowed that he • knew he could •not please bath parties, and
he complained of the peculiarities and difficulties of his position.
Now he (Mr. Macaulay) could understand that an enlightened
statesman might risk the displeasure of each party, while
supported by the consciousness that -he was introducing
a measure that would relieve and prevent •the distresses
of the country. But did the Right Hon. Baronet say this of
his own measure ? Why, he told us that he could
hold out no hope of relief to the distress that pre-
vailed.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Did he then bring in
his Bill to settle the question? Why, finality was disdained
to
Why, then, did the Right Hon. Baronet
introduce his measure? Why, he • said he introduced
on his own benches.
prevent frauds in taking the averages, of the existence of
which frauds he was riot sure, and which he acknowledged must
have been much exaggerated.—=( Hear, hear.) He also in-
troduced it to fix the price of wheat between 545. and 58s. a
q give no reasons, except excecdiosey
vagueuarter. one
sßuindeed,
tuit
olsli
ow
why
he was convinced that its
plan would have this effect.. Vague ! why to he sure it must
be vague for any wise statesman to determine what the price
shall be—(Cheers)—and that is the reason that all wise states-
men have agreed to leave the price to be settled between the
buyer and seller.—(Loud cheers.) There was a measure—
he took the Right lion. Baronet's own statement—
which settled nothing, which pleased nobody, which
nobody asked for, which nobody wonld thank him for, which
would not extend trade, which would not relieve distress, and
which offered provisions at a price of which the Right Hon.
Baronet did not profess to know anything, and for which he
could give no reason.—(Loud cheers.) tin arinciplc he op.
posed the Bill of the :light Hon. Baronet, ande on principle he
approved of that of the lion. Member for Wolverhampton.—
(Loud cheers, answered by ironical cheers from the Ministe-
rial benches.) In the first place, he understood the Hon.
Member for Wolverhampton was opposed to protection alto-
gether, and therefore opposed -a fixed duty ; hut he (Mr. Ma-
caulay) desired to be understood as advocating a fixed duty,
'on the ground of •protestims 'alone. , There were two
reasons for imposing a duty, for .tbe purpose of protection.
in One of which be
.entirely,concurrecly and there. was only ono
word in the motion of the Hon: Member for Woli,erhampton
with which he could not entirely agree—that was the word
" now."—(Hear hear.) He did not think it had been proved
satisfactorily to him that the price of corn in England was in-
creased by the burthens which peculiarly affected agriculture ;
but, he considered the English farmer entitled to. protection to
the extent of those burthens, reserving to himself, at the same
be unanswerable.—(Hear. )
time, the opinion that it would be much more expedient to
take into consideration a new distribution of them, than that
3Ystenit e--( Cheers. ) The
capital_froene one employment to another.
other'viich
seemede gxt,r)s. dui
him (Mr.
for under
:Nintahoctea removinguplraeyntto protection altogether,
thothagohugthht
ffdthiffeeyrewdoufrlodrebet hseatrisensoeldutiifona
hade i s declaredtne e of thattttime,
e thewa
spge
iovpel en
1-le was not disposed to take all protection from the Eng-
he
lish 1
is
tp,le-ef
ese
leamirooe,
fnr
hear.)
transferringeaAanir and
mih beeStrh,htueg
dh
ttd thatno differ
itmeer should
from
hime
inpallowedprinciple.—
(Cheers.) po rl e t.
were desirous of having an immediate repeal of the Corn-laws;
. but he (Mr. Macaulay)
certainty of repeal, at a certain
(Cheers.) He (Mr.
might
them. As the motion stood, it be thought to be brought
forward in a fit of despair ;. by.men who, knowing they should
get nothing, were determ'ned to ask much more than they
could expect.—( Hear, hear.) He understood that the Hon.
n had
Member for Wolverhampto expresso
resolution,
et of the uest' '
that if he saw any prosPe • ion being brought to
a settlement on what he thought sound principles, the word
" should not stand in the way of such a settlement. But
Villiers)
while the word " now " stood part of the proposition, while it
, remained such as it was, be could not give his vote for it.
With regard to a fixed duty, a,l a permanent measure, he con-
sidered it in no other light
t tau ise a mitigation or a compro-
and as a compromise, mime. As a mitigation,
I t nlise, he was ready
to support it, as a measure brought indistinctly for the purpose
of giving, relief to the Peopleu t •
he could not consider that a
settlement of the question whichleft a distinct protecting duty,
not intended for the purpose of arevenue, anti any support he
might give to such a measure world only be such a support a,
he apprehended every person in that House had repeatedly
given to measures which they thought imperfect, because,
though imperfect, they also considered them decided improve-
inents.—( Hoer, hear,
. tic: He felt exceedingly indebted to
the House for the petienee with which it had listened to him
on a question on which he had never before addressed it, but he
considered that his vote on the question might have otherwise
been misunderstood. His objection applied to the word " now,"
it
and on this ground he had thought necessary to give the
House the present explenation.—(Cheers. )
Mr. STUART WORTLEY ;said he should take the present
opportunity of declaring his opposition to the proposal of the'
Member for Wolverhampton. He rose with some reluctance
to speak on a question that had been so thoroughly debated by
the House that it would he impossible for him, and • difficult for
many who were better qualified than him, to add anythingnew,
either of fact or arginnent,4othejUbject the'House had to de-
bate. If there was orte.,re4SPP :why he had taken- the liberty of
addressing them, if *as the speilrb Of the' Right` Hari. Member
for Edinburgh, became he muss: say that • of all the speeches he

ever heard, he had never listened to one that so little an-
swered the purpose its author intended, as one half of It.com-
bated phantoms of his own raising, and the other half was
formed of arguments totally .incorsistent with the course
he . had adopted. He had charged the Right Honour-
able Baronet with maintaining in. general, abstract terms,
that cheap food was no blessing to the people. The Right
Hon. Baronet never made use of any such expression—he
never laid down any such maxim.--( Hear, hear..) There
was no doubt that if the question were Asked, whether cheap-
ness of food was.a blessing to the population of the country,
there could be no other answer, than that, ar, a matter of
course, it would be of the utmost importance ; but notwith-•
standing the truth of that maxim, it was very. questionable
whether the condition of the poorer classes of the country.
would be improved because food was made cheaper. The
whole, of the argumenti of the Right. Hon.- dentleMan opposite
(Mr. Macaulay)depended upon the fact, whether the population
hall the means of maintaining itself, and could, if provisions
were cheaper, enjoy a larger portion of the necessaries
of life. He.taiked of that as if the sole question to 'be consi-
dered was whether, if provisions were cheaper; the demands for
labour would be such as would enable the labouring classes to'
obtain sufficient employment. If those commodities, which
constitute the necessaries of life, were cheaper, no doubt they
would be brought within the reach of the population, who could
procure the means of purchasing them; but it did not follow
that they should he brought within the reach of the population
generally, unless there was employment given to them. He
(Mr. W.) was prepared to contend, and he believed if to be true,
that if the price of food was reduced, the benefit's would not go
into the pockets of the poor, but the advantages would be conferred
upon a totally different class of persons. There was much more
It bJur in this country than the demand required. Wages
were depressed, and the conseqUence was, that if the price of
•corn was reduced much lower than it was now, the poorer
classes of the people would not obtain any advantages from that
rednetion.L( Hear, hear. ) The feeling or ,the manufacturing
labourer at the present moment he believed to be this—he felt
a strong conviction that there were other questions affecting
interests,
and moral and social condition, more bearing upon his
and more deserving of his anxiety and attention. It was to
these he looked.

Mr. C. HULLER.—What are they?
Mr. S. WORTLEY.—The Hon. Member asked what
they were, he would tell him. The regulation of labour—that
which .sffected every act of their lives, and which pressed di-
rectly or indirectly upon their social existence. The atten-
tion of the manufacturing labourers was directed to these ques-
tions as more important to their interests than the question of
the Corn-lairs. lie did not mean to say that the question of
the Corn-lases was not a most impnrtaat one. He admitted
its importance, but he did not think it excited so much inte-
rest among the manufacturing labourers as had been
represented. —( Hear, hear.) -If it could he shown that,
by reducing the price' of corn, they would give to
the people a greater mass of the necessaries of life; if he could
be convinced that it was for the advantage of the great mass
pf the labouring population, that the importation of foreign
corn 14iould be perinitted nithout restriction, he would not
be found to oppose it. He admitted that the first concern of
a Legislature, wits the happiness, welfare, and improvement of
the condition of the great mass of the population ; and if it
could be proved to him that that happiness might be' secured
by the course recommended by the other side of the House, he
should be , unwilling to place himself in opposition to it.
It had frequently been asserted that the price of food had no
connection with the rate of wages. He denied that proposi-
,tion and could quote high authorities in support of his opinion :
'Adam Smith, the father of the science of Political Economy,
said " the money price of labour is regulated by two. circum-
stances ; the demand for labour; and 'the price of' the netes-
series of life:"- This' opinion' of Adam Smith was confirmed
by Mr. M'Culloch, and Mr. Ricardo had, in treating of wages,
said" we must hot forget that wages are alio regulated by the
prices of commodities." Mr. Iluskisson who had been fre-
quently quoted as an authority by Hon. Members opposite,
had said that if they reduced the price of food in the
mariner proposed, he held it by no means clear that
wages would not fall in a still more rapid manner.
(The Hon. Gentlaman then read an extract from Mr. M'Cul-
loch's Dictionary of Commerce in proof of h:s argument It
was to the effect—that, in 1814, the price of wheat was 745.
per quarter ; and, in 11515, it had fallen to 64e. ; and, in con-
'sequence of the tall, the price of wheat not indemnifying the
occupier of poor lands, those lands became gradually out of
tillage.) He said, therefore, that he was justified in concluding
that the price of food and wages had a relation to each other.
The competition amongst the labourers themselves, and the
competition amongst the masters, in respect of the employed
alone, would prevent the working classes being benefited by
any reduction in the price of food. That this was the case
among those who were practically conversant with the subject he
thought there could be no doubt whatever. It was not very long ,
since,they hadheard the evidence of aperson of that (lasi of whom
they were then speaking, and who expressed the opinion of a great
number of his companions upon this question. The man's name ,
was Brighton, and he was examined before a Committee of '
Inquiry of that House. He said " some people will say that
if our provisions were cheaper we should be better off, but
our masters would take advantage of these rates, and reduce
the Weavers a penny upon each quantity of work, whieh'woull
amount to about 2s. or 2s 6d a week." He proved by this that
the working people held the same opinion as that expressed by,
51r. Huskissan, that a reduction in the price of food would not,
put the labourer in a much better position than at present.%
Now when they talked of repealing the Corn-laws, he thought
there were full and sufficient grounds for decidedly opposing
that measure. His
,opposition and objection to this measure
was founded simply upon this reason, that he was not prepared
to ask for relief of one portion of the population, and that the
minority, by almost certain ruin to the other class.—( Cheers.)
Because, whatever Hon. Gentlemen might say, there could be
no question of this fact-being proved beyond the possibility of
a doubt, that, taking the two classes which inhabit the empire,
those who were engaged in manufactures and those employet,
in agriculture, that the latter class and the fortner
compared with the numbers, would .show a great ma.
ority of ,the agriculturists.—(Hear.) Be thought he should
be within the mark, when he stated what had been alleged
during the course of the debate, that themanufacturing.popue
lation taken altogether, was as one to two compared with the
agriculturists. When they took these classes together, and
they were asked to adopt a measure for the purpose of relief,
and this a doubtful relief to the smaller body, but which in-
volved ruin to the other, he thought it was best to hold from
such' a proposition. Gentlemen opposite told them that the
English farmer would not suffer. In the first place they told
them that the importation of foreign corn would not be such
as to reduce the price of corn in this country. It did not seem
to him to be necessary • to occupy the time of the House in
entering into that question.--( Hear,. hear.) It, was in the
power of the foreigner to transport corn to this country at 35e.
to 405., and if they had noisome protection the foreigner "would
be able to introduce corn into the country to the prejudice of
the farmer, and so far the farmer would 'be injured. But Hon.
Gentlemen turned round and said,,aupposingit were ro, he
need only turn his capital to other sources of indistry arid culti-
vate grass land, and he would make as much profit as be
formerly did. In .the first place, did those Hon. Gentlemin
recollect the circumstance that all those lands .which were fimt
abandoned from cultivation, were those least capable and the
worst of quality ? Thereforelt was no answer whatever to tell
him that he would do well by turning his land under cultivatiOn
into pasture or grazing land. But there was another circum-
stance attending this to which he would call the attention Pf
Hon. Gentlemen. They must look to the population supporto
by the cultivated land. Ile (Mr. S. Wortley) had seen some-
thing of this, and he had no doubt he was within the mark
when he said that the population supported by the labour ,in
grazing land was not above, one-half that supported by the
other branches of agriculture. This land was, therefote,
thrown out of cultivation, and the labourers were necessarily
thrown upon other resources. This, then, it was that matte
the argument inefficacious, which was brought forward, that tha
farmer • could turn his capital to another channel,
He would not detain them longer, as it was not
his wish to occupy an unreasonable portion of the time of the
House. The question had been so elaborately debated upon,
that there was scarcely anything new to be added. His reason
for opposing the proposal of the Hon. Member for Wolver-
hampton was, that he felt that it would not be advantageous to
the whole community that the Corn-laws should be repealed.
He thought, it was fair there should be such a reduction made
as the nature of the case called for. He wished for relaxation
of the law, but hr was not prepared to risk all the consequences
of an entire repeal of the Corn-laws. With respect to the
proposal 'of the Right Hon. Bart. at the head of her Majesty's
Government, he believed it would be viewed by the people of
this country as a measure of reasonable relaxation, and calcu-
la•ed as much to benefit one side as the other.

Mr. MITCHELL said that a fixed duty was preferable to a
sliding scale. He had taken the opportunity of consulting
his friends in the City, both Whig and Tory ; and he found
that ail, from the highest to the lowest, although many of
them considered the measure of the Right lion. Bart. did not
go tar enough, yet the principal part of them considered that
the measure was a great and valuable improvement on the late
sliding scale.—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches. )
Some three years ago, considering that the prices were low,
he had himself speculated in corn.—(Laughter.) However,
they condemned the present system, he condemned the former
one more. So far he believed that it was a block to trade, and
prevented fair speculation.—( Laughter from the Ministerial
benches.) He had purchased wheat at 30s. a quarter, and he
might have purchased 20,000 quarters at the same price ; now,
calculating the charges from the continental port of freight,
sound dues, commission, &c., altogether they would not exceed
7s. a quarter —he knew that the average price of Hritish wheat
was 561. a quarter, and which was the average stated by the
Right Hon. Baronet in his speech ; now, adding this 7s.
to 305.., the original price of the wheat would be 375.,
the duty when the price Was 375. in this country
would he liis., and that brought the price of the article up to
535. Now, as the average price of wheat was .565., this would
give him a profit of 2s. or 3s. a quarter. The average price
of wheat in London was generally a shilling or two higher than
other parts of the kingdom ; therel,re, the average price in
London would be 575. or 583. Now, according to the pro-
posed measure, he had a fair prospect of from 4s. to ss. a
quarter, by importing wheat from the Continent when the
price was at Nis. in this country. Now, under the old sliding;
scale of duties, he found that the duty at 695. and 70s. would be
13s. Bd. Now, when the average price of wheat was at 693.
the duty was never paid, because those who held wheat would
keep it back until the price was up to 7 Is., 725., or 735. a
quarter. The only time when a duty higher than 6s. Bd. is
paid is when the price has been up to 735., and when the price
is going down, cargoes of wheat came over, and the parties are
anxious to pay the duty before it rises to 20s. The only time
that lOs. Bd. or I:3s. r_sd. duty has been paid, has been when
large quantities have been imported at one shilling duty.
Now the effect of the alteration as proposed by the Right
lion. Baronet will be this, that upon an average crop in this
country, and when the average price of wheat is 565., wheat
will be ordered from the foreign market with a view to its
bring brought over as a legitimate subject of speculation, and
expecting a profit of 3s. or 4s. a quarter, that speculation not
being founded upon the prospect of a sufficient harvest, but
upon the certainty of a fair mercantile profit arising out of it.
lie therefore was of opinion, that the alteration of the duty will
have the effect of causing an importation of foreign wheat in
this country when the average price was 565. or 575.
and he was also of opinion that it would prevent persons hold-
ing
back corn till the price was at 70s. or 7 Is. He there-
fore considered that there was a productive and a real and beau
fide improvement in the whole scale, by which the duty might.
be expected seldom to exceed 14s. or lbs. Now he considered
that a great improvement upon the whole scale. Honourable
Gentlemen might ask whether it was equal to a fixed duty ?
He said candidly he did not consider it was; but although he
did not think so, yet he considered it to 'be his duty, sitting
there as a Member of the House of Commons, and one sent
there to do the best he could for his constituents, to take
this measure when there was no chance of getting_ any
better—( Cheers)—not only in that House but in the other House
of Parliament. Having nu prospect, then, of a better measure,
he thought it his duty not to reject the measure of the Right
lion. Baronet merely because he was of opinion that another
measure might be brought forward. lie did not consider it ,his
duty to reject the measure of the Right lion. Baronet on that
ground. A great many Hon. Gentlemen might think he was
,cting contrary to party in this declaration; because a fixed duty
was proposed by one party and a scale by another, he
did not feel himself called upon to.vete for a fixed duty whenhe
saw no prospect of its being carried, and therefore h • was wil-
ling to aeept of the present instalment. (Cheers from
the Ministerial Benches.) He did not expect the mea-
sure would be a final settlement. Certainly not.—( Hear
and cheers from the Opposition.) Ho was of quite
a contrary opinion. Yet, at the sarne time, he considered that
the Right Hon. Baronet opposite had brought forth the most
Liberal measure that he himself thought he could carry, and as
such he (Mr. Mitchell) accepted it.---( Cheers from the Minis.

terial benches.) He would say more, he was grateful to him,
for, su far as he could judge for the sentiments of his constitu-
ents, and of the great body of merchants whom he represent-
ed, they were of opinion that the-measure was a great im-
pr4veinent, and ought to be accepted and tried for a 'short
fluke, to see whether its working would not produce a steady
trade in corn. He was of opinion that it would.—(Loud
cheers from the Ministerial side of the House.) He had not
yet alluded to the article of oats, and he thought with respect
to; that produce, the present measure was an exceeding liberal
. one. At this moment he had oats weighing 421bs. to the
btishel : the price in Denmark for these oats was Bs. a quarter.
arid the charges from Denmark independent of the duty
would not exceed 65., thus bringing the price up to 14s. Now,
atOs , the duty was 65., and thus they could bring oats into
this country, paying a duty of 6s. when the price was at 20s.
NOW, tinder the old scale, 20s. was almost prohibitory, and,
therefore, there was a great improvement, and not only was it
a treat improvement, but it acted as a check upon the home
market. On all these grounds, considering the measure to be
one of great reform In the old scale, he did not feel it to be
his duty to refuse so valuable an improvement as that proposed
by the. Right Hon. Baronet, on the ground that an abstract re-
snlution had been proposed in the principle of which he agreed,
but which he felt assured there was no chance of carrying.—
(,Lourl cheers from the Ministerial benches. )
Mr. C. BULLER said, the Honourable Gentleman who
had just addressed the House, seemed to differ much in the
scram, rats he entertained now, and those he entertained when
he addressed the electors of Bridport, in June last. He
called upon them then to sink all miner differences, in the
great cause of free trade, when he said the question was,
whether the people should suffer by the monopolists,
whom he designated as living upon the fat of the land.
ye was proceeding—and he, (Mr. Buller) was delighted to
perceive that those by whom the Right Hon. Baronet was oc-
casionally supported, supported him (Mr. Mitchell)—to prove
to the. Right Hon. Baronet that it was a benefit to the country
that wheat 'could be brought from Denmark at 285., and oats
at 20s. There was only one other speech made that night ,
upon which he felt inclined to remark, and upon only one pas-
sege in that speech. He was very glad that a remark of his
elicited from the Hon. Gentleman, tho Member for the West
of Yorkshire, an explanation of what he thought was
a fair subject for agitating the minds of the people,
and what he thought was a fair subject of the people's wishes.
They should all admit that the pi ice of food was naturally ona
of the everyday considerations of the people of England, but
although the people were agitated upon that question, it
seemed to him to be one of the greatest advantages that could
se, that there should be honest and enlightened Members who
should tell their constituents ashen they were actuated by delu-
tions, that those delusions were mischievous and utterly useless.
He appealed to Hon. Members to say, whether it was not the
duty of intelligent Members of that House to disabuse the
minds of their constituents upon these subjects? He (Mr.
Buller) had taken no part in debates upon this question
before ; he knew the collision of interests which would pervade
he country when it came to be discussed; but he was always
of opinion that whenever it came to be settled—whenever the
circumstances of the country were such as to require a settle-
tment of it—when the people came to demand an alteration of
those laws which prevented the introduction of corn into this
country, the question would be speedily settled. The one great
:argument which excited the feelings and biassed the judgment
or the people against the Corn-laws was their manifest injus •
the. If there was nothing else—no other consideration but
that, it rendered the immediate settlement of them most essen-
itial. Hon. Gentlemen on the other side did not avow
',that they were personally interested in a settlement of
,-the question—they • stated that it was not for them-
-selves they cared a bit, but they were anxious for the
:prOsperity of the farmers, and were not indifferent to
the manufacturers, who were the parties principally interested
in this measure. Consistent with common sense, it was im-
, pet ative upon the Legislature to enact a measure with respect
to the introduction of corn into this country, and it was equally
imperative upon them to remove the fatal mistrust which ex-
isted with reference to the present law. Even if those laws
were not so objectionable, it would be wise to remove those
causes which had the effect of rendering their legislation so
much an object of. suspicion.—( Hear, hear.) It is an in-
variable rule that when the people of any country believe that
laws are founded on unjust principles, that they always ex-
aggerate the evils which result from them—they are slow to
sit down under the notion that those laws might have been
originally founded in justice if they cannot impute the evils
from which they suffer to aoy other cause. When complaints
are • made that . the people attribute more evils to the
existence of the Corn-laws than are due to them, it would
be wise to consider them and to remove those causes. The
Right. Hon. Baronet opposite had stated that the present dis-
tress of the people of this country was not owing to the opera-
tion of the Corn-laws, but that it was caused by over-production.
Sir R. PEEL—It very much leads to it.
Mr. BULLER—The Right Hon. Baronet states that the
present distress is the reaction consequent upon over-production
and increase of machinery ; what consolation did that give the
Right Hon. Baronet, what advantages were there from that,
except the employment of capital? but no proportionate advan-
tage accrued to the people. Last year he called the attention
of the House to the increase of population, and the decrease
of their means of employment. Between 1825 and 1831 more
than two millions of people were added to the population of
this country, and during that interval of time there was a po-
sitive diminution in the number of families employed in agri-
culture. He would ask the House to consider what the effect
of that was upon the country. According to the last returns
the population was increased 4,500,000, and although they
were not regularly classified, as far as could be judged from
other circumstances it might be fairly inferred that the entire
of that increased population found its support in manufactures,
Led not in agriculture.--( Hear, hear.) 4,500,000 were added
to the population of this country since 1821 and it did not appear
that agriculture gave them any increased employment, but that
than whole means of subsistence had been found in trade and
manufactures alone. It was his (Mr. Buller's) firm belief, whe-
ther the present distress was attributable to the Corn-laws or
not, that it was quite obvious the duty of Parliament
was to search for some effectual means to relieve
that distress, or at all events to secure for the
people some permanent means of employment. If agri-
culture gave no increased employment, but manufactures did,
it was the duty of Parliament to do all they could to facilitate
the employment of the people,. and enable them to acquire the
necessaries of life.. If the town was made too large for the
country, and the country could not feed the town, what was the
.clear policy of a Government but to remove the restrictions
under which the town. was in getting food,? They should be
allowed, at all events, to obtain food for themselves, and if they
could not get it from their own country, the people should not
be prevented from getting it where they could at a reasonable
price. He did say without hesitation that the present Corn-laws, or
any laws like them, which prevented the people from getting the
necessaries of litc at a fair reasonable price, and did not facili-
tate their employment, if they did not directly take the bread
out of the people's mouths, effectually prevented the people
from getting it.—( Hear, hear.) Notwithstanding what he
(Mr. Buller) then said, he felt himself constrained to
express a very great discrepancy of opinion between him
arid his Hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton. He
would wish to say one word with reference to the vote which he
would be obliged to give that night ou the motion of his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Villiers). He should say, in the first instance,
that he could not assent at all to a motion that all duty upon
corn should cease.—(Cheers and Hear, hear, from the
Ministerial benches.) He (Mr. Buller) would explain
to the House, in a very few words, the grounds upon which he
had come to that honest opinien.—(Laughter and cheers.)
In altering the Corn-laws there ought to be a fixed duty,.
and a due regard should at all times be observed for vested
interests. Nothing could be more fatal than the
notion that vested interests should be interfered with ; be the
laws bad, mischievous ;or even founded on injustice, still when
interests haelgro u up and had been recognised by the Constitu-
tion, nothing could be more fatal or prejudicial than to interfere
with these interests rashly or precipitately.—(Hear, hear.) It
was stated that this question was decidedly a landlords'question,
He believed it was—( Hear, hear)—and that the effect of
the Right Hon. Baronet's measure would be to raise the land-
lords' rent and cheapen food by artificial means. The Go-
vernment should look at the immense body of farmers and agri-
cultural labourer:, whose condition required improvement—
( Hear, hear.) The laws might be aitered, but if they were
they should be so altered as to abolish all unjust restrictions,
and allay those alarms which every class of the emir-
msnity must naturally feel.—(Hear, hear, hear.) There
was as great a difference between these two principles as
it was possible could exist. The plan proposed by the Right
Hou. Baronet was one unheard of in the history of taxation.
He had heard of prohibitory laws, and of protection, but laws
so totally, prohibitory as these, and protection so exclusive as
this, had never before came under his notice. The English
Corn-law stood forth alone as the only instance of an attempt
on the part of the Legislature to regulate by laws the imperta-
‘tion of any rartieular article.--( An Hon. Member on the
Ministerial benches—" The French law.") What was the
French law but an imitation of ours? It was nothing more,
and it was one universally condemned. Whatever the price of
corn, might he, by this sliding scale, it was quite evident that
the consumer could not procure it at a reasonable price. There
was a great difference between this system and the fixed
duty. We say that in consideration of certain in-
terests to be preserved we will give you a fixed protection to your
corn. He would ask on what principle the Right Hon. Bart.
could justify the sliding scale because of the peculiar burdens on
1 and. The burdens on land were fixed, and if corn were low, taxes
did not get higher; indeed, the contrary was the fact, for when
corn was low, the taxes became lower too. Gentlemen oppo-
site, then, did away with the whole of their arguments for the
justice of the duty on corn, if they applied it in the shape of a
sliding scale. The sliding scale raised the price of corn much
higher than was necessary, and than they who advocated it
imagined. At 68s. the duty was 16s. Bd, which left 525. 2d.
price, and he (Mr. Buller) believed that no return had been
made of corn: coming in at a less price than 525. The effect
of this scale would be in the working, but the speculator in corn
would always keep back the price of corn for the lowest duty—
formerly for the Is. duty, and now for the lower duties. Sup-
pose, for, example, that the price of corn here was 625., if the
price rose Is. the speculator got 25., so that there was always a
prospect of large gain for holding the stock back. It was not
the same as in Other' duties, where he could get the rise of price
only, for in this instance they would get that and the duty too.
Sir R. PEEL.—Suppose it should fall?
Mr. C. BULLER- fhe Right Hon. Baronet said, suppose
it should fall.? The effect of the sliding scale was to make
the price higher than it need be. Suppose, however, that the
price should fall, there was no injury to the agriculturist
They did not give the consumer the advantage of a fixed price
but threw in parcels of foreign corn without giving any cheap i
price, and ao t did no good to the consumer. He (Mr. Bul-
ler) did not contend that we should have corn Is. a quarter
lower now and then, but.that we should have it at as low a price
as the variations of the season would admit. There was only
one other argument of the supporters of this Bill to which he
would now advert. The Right Hon. Baronet said that we
said our fixed duty would settle the question, but such was not
the case, for the moment we get the fixed duty agitation would
be started for the total repeal. It did not depend, however, on
what was said in that House 'or what was said out of RI; it all de-
pended on thernariner in which the question was settled, and if
once the fixed duty were established there would be no mis-
chief whatever to be apprehended in that way. The advantage
of the fixed duty was, that whether the price was high or low
there could be no exaggeration as to it—if the fixed duty were
ss. the price of corn would be augmented ss. ; if the duty
were Bs. the price would be increased Bs., and so on. That
would be the effect of the fixed duty, and he (Mr. Buller)
would defy human imagination to impute anything
elk(' to it. He (Mr. Buller) would not pretend to say that no
good would result from the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet.
He admitted that it would do some good, and that it would
somewhat lower the price of corn. All he (Mr. Buller) had
to say was that it did not du enough to satisfy the people, it
did not remove 'the real evil, it did not create a steady de-
mand for corn from foreign countries, neither would
it ensure a steady supply from foreign countries, nor
secure a moderate price. I be Right Honourable
Baronet said that the usual price of corn under his sliding scale
would be from 545. to 58s. per quarter. He (Mr. Buller) did
not think that it 'would give us corn lower than from 60s. to
. -665. He believed it would do little goad; it would not re-
assure the manufacturers, nor would it place commerce upon a
sure foundation in this country. He should say no snore on this
questioW; but as he should give his vote against those gentle-
men with whom he had so often voted, he thought it right that
he should say what was his ground for doing so, and that he
should state his opinion -of the general impolicy of the Corn-
laws, more especially under the sliding stale.—(Hear. )
Mr.f J. B. HOPE spoke at considerable length, but in so
low a tone of voice as to be wholly inaudible in the gallery.
We understood him to say, that if the Corn-laws were repealed,
agriculture would be ruined, and England would become a

manufacturing country, depending altogether for support urea.
Eofreogrtheetrtecdoutnhtarti ehse.
;he
ms
to!) ilecs
could not approve of the motion
of the Honoorable Member for Woverham ton and at p ,long as
he had a seat in that House, he would
give effect to his opinions
by his vote.—(Hear, hear.) He approvedthe
the principle of free trade, but it could not, he thought,
be applied in this country, consistently with justice, or
with the general interests of the community to the question of
the Corn-daws.—( Hear, hear.) He would not imitate the
example of the Gal:ant Commodore the Member for Martle-
bone, who, while he expressed his approval of ail Bs. duty:an-
nounced his intention of voting for the motion then before the
House. He deeply regretted that the proposal of the late Go-
vernment had not been adopted last year. That proposal
would have led to a settlement of the question, unlike the
measure introduced by thepresent Government, which pleased
no party —( Hear, hear.) It was objected to a fixed duty,
that it could not be maintained in time of severity ; but he be-
lieved that a severity could not arise under such a duty. He
would repeat, however, that he could not approve of b. motion
so sudden and so violent as that which the Hon. :Member for
Wolverhampton had brought before the House.
Mr. MONCKTON MILNES could not help calling the
attention of the House to the pathetic situation of his Hon.
Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, who was 1, ft alone
that evening its his advocacy of .a total repeal. Some of his
friends, timidly and with qualifications, supported his motion—
sonic announced their intention of voting against him, and
others announced their intention of not voting at all.—( Hear,
hear.) He believed his Hnn. Friend had not acted prudently
in bringing forward his motion in its present shape, so that he
could get so few to speak and hardly any one to vote in its fa-
vour. The whole discussion appeared to him (Mr. Milnes) to
be a vain and fruitless scinmachy.—( Hear, hear, and laughter. )
Ile contended that the opponents of the motion were con-
tending with a mere shadow. But he would proceed to
answer the objections which had been brought against
the Government scheme. Be would first refer to the speech of
his Hon. Friend the Member for Liskeard; and he did believe
_it would not beast all difficult to show how totally inconsistent
were the arguments efune part of that speech with those of
another. His lion. and Learned Friend said that the people
considered any legislation upon the Corn-laws ipso facto un-
just ; and that therefore they were right in agitating against it.
Hon. Members opposite could no doubt excite the people on
this question by appealing to their passions and also their appe-
tites.—(Latighter.) But having done so, did they think
that they could prevail on them to stop at an Ss. duty? It was
disheartening- to see the religious agitation that had been en-
flamed on this subject; yet he had the consolation to know
that scarcely one clergyman of the Established Church had
' degraded himself by taking part in Hear, hear. )
He believed that of that body three only sat in the late
Conference, while scarce' a single clergyman of the Wes-
myan body joined the agitation, of which the Hon. Member
for Liskeard confessed the of ject was to promote confusion
.n the interests of the country. But the people of Eng-
Isnd, inspired by CJMITIOII sense, would see through the delu-
sion that had been attempted on them, supported, though
those were by assertions that cheapness of food was the
greatest blessing that a community could have. We should
reflect that the landlords had the protection given to them under
the law, and by a right as strung as the landed property
itself was held—only the law which guaranteed that protection
was declared unjust. ; then you might also as properly declare
the law Width regulated the property of every- Hon. Member
opposite unjust. The Honourable Member for Wolverhamp-
ton had spoken of class legislation in a very absurd manner.
Why, what class could legislate on this subject unless an inter-
ested one?— ( Laughter,and Hear. ) Were not the manufacturers
interested in the present question ? Every representative bode
must contain interested persons. He (Mr. Manes) con.
tended that protection of the landed interest was quite con-
sistent with the welfare of the manufacturers. The opponents
of the Corn-laws had undertaken to prove the reverse, but
they had failed. Now, he asserted that the Corn-law repeal
was agitated for the sake of effecting a a reduction of wages.
If the manufacturers were honest they must admit that they
could not compete with foreign manufacturers, unless bs a re-
duction of the wages of our operatives. It was quite
' absurd for Honourable Gentlemen opposite to in-
sist that a repeal of the Cotn-laws would greatly 'increase
the foreign demand for our manufactures. Now it was well
known that the great corn-growing countries would not take
our manufactures, because they did not want them. The
banks of the large central rivers of Europe, on which the
great fields of corn were cultivated to which we looked, were
inhabited by a rude and scanty population, who were able to
provide for all their own wants, and were quite ignorant of the'
necessities of our highly civilised condition. In the north
and east of Germany, where the corn-growing countries lays
the Prussian League had failed in its operation, for thous
parts would not take the manufactures of the other parts ;
and if the League had failed in effecting an interchange be-
tween its agricultural and manufacturing constituents, how
could we expect that those people would buy our manufactures
who had refused to buy their own ?—(Hear, hear.) They
might do so some time hereafter, but it was a cruel absurdity
to say that they would do so immediately, and so relieve the
distresuof our artisans. In talking of the boundless fertility
of the filains of America, the Hon. Member for Kilmarnock
'had mingled poetry with statistics. God forbid that the ex-
change of the corn of these vast fields, extende-t even into the
primeval forests, for our manufactures, should not hereafter
take place, but no law that we could now pass could effect
this, so as to be as immediate relief for our dis'ress, and fill
our land with abundance. But if the present agitation were conti-
nued he would not say that there might not be brought about an
absolute necessity for the repeal of the Corn-laws.—(Cheers.)
This would be no proof that the agitators were right, or that a
repeal of the Corn-laws would be of any benefit to the people.
No necessity existed now for that repeal—if the necessity
existed they need not be there to talk about it, for it would
demonstrate itself with force irresistible. The violence he
apprehended might be aroused, he could not deny ; but did
those who had the power of exciting this awful force calcu-
late the.. consequences ? Did they not think that if
the landholder were destroyed the fundholdcr could
not be allowed to remain where he was ? (Hear,
hear, hear.) The fundhulder was protected by the
same law that protected the landowner, who was thus
enabled to pay the former the money he lent the country in
the crisis of 1813 and 1814. If a robbery, then, were com-
mitted on the landowners by a repeal of the Corn-laws, the
landowners would sink, but if they sank, the fundholderS must
sink with them.—( Hear, hear, and Divide.) He had 'but a
few words to say of the
.proposition of the flight Honourable
Baronet. Public opinion 'bad already changed in its
favour. They who at first could sec nothing in the
scale, now saw a great deal in it.—( Cheers and laughter. J The
Hon. Member for Bridport said, that the practical men of the
City approved of it ; the Hon. Member for Dover said also
that it was much superior to the present scale ; nor should the
public condemn until they had well considered all circumstances
connected with it, and particularly whether the Right Hon.
Baronet had the power to carry a larger and a mere liberal
measure.—(Laughter anti cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet
might have proposed a measure that would have excited greater
applause, or have l rovoked 'a more vigorous resistance ;
but his intention was to please the few moderate men of each
party, and this he had done. For his (Mr. 31.'s) part
he would admit that a more liberal scale would have pleased
him better.-- (Cheers.) He did not think the Right Hon.
Baronet would secure the country against an oscillation of
prices; but it would be impertinent in him (Mr. M.) to state
his opinion against that of the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Laugh-
ter and Hear, hear.) So he would leave him to take care of
his'own reputation.—( Laughter.) But really the manner in
which this poor Corn-law was abused and badgered about, was
most amusing to young Members. The Noble Lord, the Alem-
her fin' Tiverton, loaded with every abuse the measure which
he, as a Cabinet Minister, helped to introduce in 1828; while
those on the opposite side, who, a short time since,
revered the Corn-law as a part of the Constitution,
were now quite ready to abolish it.—(Cries of .6 Hear.")
He rejoiced to see a tendency towards free trade, though he
strenously opposed and refused to give his assent to any violent
and absurd measures for attaining that end, without having
gone through the necessary steps. While in France, the Com-
mittees of Agriculture, of Commerce, and of Trade, had met to-
gether to discuss this question, and in those three Committees
there was only one member found to contend for any reduction
of the present protection duties in that country ; while M. Dupin ,
the Lord Brougham of France, as he was frequently callecifrem
his manifold attainments, declared that the sliding scale ap
peered to him to be the very acme of political invention ;
while Russia, Austria, and Prussia were determining to com-
bine agriculture and manufactures, and working against
each other, not from any motiae of competition, but to secure
that combination of manufacturers and agriculture, which he
believed to be as necessary to the body politic as the combina-
tion of animal and vegetable food was to the body corporate—
( A laugh)—while such was the position of things,
and considering also the state of our relations with other
countries, he could not but think that suddenly to establish
free trade would be an act of anything but wise legislation.
He supported most heartily, therefore, the Bill of the Right.
Hon. Baronet, and rejoiced that all differences of opinion on
that side of the House had subsided into approbation of that
measure. He hoped that the time would come when the im-
provements in agricultare would enable the English agricul-
turist to compete with the foreign, and when the agriculturists
would be enabled to raise double the crops which they now
produced; and he trusted and believed that the agri-
cultural interest would act then with the same
good sense and moderation which now marked their
conduct, and tl.at they would then only demand, as they
now only demanded, °fair remuneration. Capital might flow
in those channels, and if it were allowed peaceably to remain,
there would, he thought, be hardly a Member of that House
who would not live to see the Corn-laws legitimately, peace-
fully, and lawfully repealed.—( Cheers. )
Mr. WA KLEY said the Hon. Gentleman the Member for
Liskeard, had manifested in his speech the greatest possible
anxiety, lest he should be misunderstood. It was a natural anxiety,
a commendable anxiety, and one for which he should experience
sympathy from the Members of that House.—(Laughter.) lie
(Mr. Wakley) recollected an old gentleman who informed him,
some years ago, that he always felt the greatest wish to under-
stand what was going on in the National Assembly. lie said,
" I like to understand the proceedings in the House of Com-
mons, and my mode of doing so is this,—l always read with the
utmost rare the motions •and the amendments, and then I put
off reading the long speeches until I am at a wateringsplace in
the summer."—(Laughter.) Now, he thought that his Hon.
and Learned Friend's speech was a good speech for the sutnmer—
( Loud laughter)—it wee bis opinion that the perusal of
it ought to be deferred; it was bettter that it. should not be
read now, because it was calculated to confuse, rather than to
elucidate. Why, the Right Honourable Baronet, the Member
for Tamworth, when he introduced that discussion, had stated
ths,t it was not a subject for the indulgence of fancy ; that it
furnished no scope for the imaginative powers of the mind ;
that it was a very dry question of detail, and that he felt that
there would be the greatest difficulty in making it interesting
to that House. But it did appear to him (Mr. Wakley)
that a great deal of fancy must have been exercised, in
order to clothe a subject so simple in such en enormous quantity
of words.—( Laughter.) Hon. Members of that House ar-
gued the question as though it was one of extreme complexity,
and, one requiring unusual and inordinate sagacity, in order to
be-properly understood. But the healthy brains, the strong
natural intellects, which had not been vitiated by a corrupt and
false education, understood this subject well enough, and
laughed at them for being so preciously deluded as they were
in believing that the community did not comprehend it.—
(Hear, hear.) There was scarcely a child, there was
scarcely a human being, who was capable of earning
his two shillings a day, who did not fully. compre-
hend this question ; it was only there that it, idimitted
of mystification or intellectual confusion. Honourable Gentle-
men. opposite, who talked of the landed Interest, professed, and
he dared say honestly, that their efforts were directed to the im-
provement of our national resources ; that they had no itit!nr-
.ested motive in this question; that they were actuated by
ane
spirit oh patriotism ; that they took the most enlarged
andcare of
com-
prehensive views ; and it was only to secure them the
vy
the national welfare, that they supported the heavy s
ipir,
corn--( Hear. ) They heard the words continually
in that House, " Protection to agriculture andas 1
in-
terest." The "landed interest!"
Now,t
r.
what l
meant hy
Why was not the
the last two words—" lauded interest ?
interest ?—( Cries of
landed interest of England a
nation
he )
" Hear, hear," and loud cheers from tht
also to Cheer what he
Well, if they cheered that, y
theeomniercial interest of England
would say next. -Was
notCheeers from both sides of the House, )
a national interest too?(Cheers
they were all agreed.—( A laugh.)
Well, that was right—
'nterests. Then he asked them,
why
Those two were national
landed interest a special
wished to make the
they
"by it was " the Opposition.
one ?---Crsesr' hear- from Why was it that
"demanding a protection for their produce,
they werewhen
the manufacturers of England, they who lived upon indq.

try, said, "we ask for no protection at all ?" (Cheers.)
That was a fair statement of the question. Oh, but they
thought that protection should be given to agriculture. He
wanted to know what was the meaning of those three words,
•• Protection to agriculture ?" Did they mean protection to
their mansions, parks of deer, race-horses, dog-kennels, and
packs of hounds ?—( Cries of " Hear, hear," and laughter.)
Did they mean protection with reference to the superior ad-
vantages which they had enjoyed—that portion of those who
miscalled themselves agriculturists, who lived in a state of
idleness, merely on the receipt of rent ? Did they mean pro-
tection to the labourer, who had got is. a week? Was it
protection to him? Was it protection to his miserable mud
lee el ? Was it protection to his destitution ?—( Hear, hfar.)
Ile contendeu that the agricultural labourers of this country
were in a miserable, a deplorable condition, '
notwith-
standing their Corn-law.—(" No, no," from the Mints-
tenet benches.) The agricultural labourers of the west of
lieglan i—he had been there letely—bad but 6s. and is. a-
week. They had no more.—( Hear, hear.) They had heard
it stated in that House what was the condition of the mechanic,
what was the condition of the workmen m their factories.
They heard that they wanted employment, and that they were
ie a state of destitution.—( Hear, hear.) What was the remedy
proposed ? Had they a remedy ? None. NIA a single re medy
was yet proposed for the destitution of the people of this
country. And now, what had been the course of their legisla-
tioo? They had taken away protection from the manufacturers ;
they had been taking that course now since 1824. Did they
not think that they had commenced at the wrong end ?
( Hear, hear.) They should have begun with food, the staple
articles of life ; but by the legislation whcih they had pursued,
they had brought on the misery and destitution of the peop'e
rat this coun:r se What did they proclaim to the people of this
hind by the Poor-law ? They said, "If you become poor and
destitute, we will put you in gaol—you shall be on a gaol
altov,anec."—( Hear, hear.) And what did they say by the
torn-law? That they vs, uld not give them the best oppor-
tuisity of exercising their abilities to procure for them-
selves bread.—( Hear, hear, hear.) That was their course
of legislation. Why, it was a mad course ; it was one so
fraught with folly and danger, that every institutiotkaf- this
country at the present moment was in a -state-oftisWurity.
Hear, hear.) They knew not what was the temper
of the people out of that Howe, they knew not what was
the feverish state of the public mind ; and he for one con-
curred with those of the millions who had not joined the Corns,
law League, but who had said that there was no remedy but
in remodelling the constitution of the House of Commons. He
approved of the conduct of those men. They had borne their
sutfer.nes nobly ; they had fought the battle manfully; the;
knew ;here the source of the evil was ; and they were for ap-
plying an appropriate remedy. Why, in that discussion, the
arguments which were employed, would really lead them to
believe that the landed proprietors of this country were great
sufferers under the present state of things, that they were a
very persecuted race of men, that they underwent
privations, and that they we'll' monstrously oppressed
with burdens, Think of the 'ourdens ? There were poor.-
rates ? Well, what would, they do ? Would they have the
poor starve ? Had not too poor rights of maintenance in a
country where they 7i4-e horn—where they had committed no
crime—where they 'sere willing to toil? In the, Christian spirit
'hi" ought to -.ctuate them, did they call thai a burden—the
maintenals.::, of the poor? It ought to be a pleasure to them. Why
"bsitkrines the privileges they enjoyed, considering the pleasures
tlwrir estates conferred, it ought to be the greatest pleasure to re-
"lieve the destitute, and to see that there was no man who wanted
bread. Highway-rates would they be able to take their
pleasure if they had not good roads ? Was it not for their
profit and advantage that there should be good roads? What
nonsense it was to call that a burden ! It was the
best investment of their capital. What would be the value of
a form if there were ne ~,is to it ?—( Hear, hear.) Well, then,
what was the next burden ? This complaint, he confessed,
slid .snrptise hire. The tithes ! What ! the advocates of the
Established Church regard the tithes as a burden ? It was
isetsossible, 'What were the burdens, the odious burdens, that
they wanted to shake off, a grievous load upon their
backs and their energies? What ! the tithes a burden? why,
it was an abomination—( Great laughter)—he fancied the
Tithe Bill was doomed—he thought the Tithe Commutation
Act was in 3 fair way for being soon repealed.—( Continued
laughter,) Now, with reference to that Act, he recollected that
whenit etas before the House he uttered not a word against it,
It dealt with tithe property as public property, and with that
recognition in the Legislature, he thought it would be rather
'unwise to try to depreciate that property by lessening its plan-
thy or diminishing its value. An Act of Parliament had
dealt with ,it, the Legislature had treated it as a thing which
belonged, to the public.—( Hear, hear.) He supposed the pub-
lic might now deal with it. At all events, never did he expect
to have the advocates of the Established Church, the Protestant
Church of this country, contend that the tithe was such a
burden that it would not be spoken of, except with
regret, and pain, and almost horror. Now, under these
circumstances, and in the present aspect of affairs,
what was their hope ? He was sorry that he did not see
this Right Honourable Baronet in his place, because since
he had left that side of the House, the Right Hon. Bart. had
been going the wrong way very fast.—(Laughter from both
sides of the Honse.) He was afraid, if he did not improve in
the course which he pursued, he would not be in office long
enough to get gent'emen on that side of the House in a very
virtuous way. Having been in a state of plethora from over-official
feeding, he wanted now to starve them into something good.
It was impossible for him (Mr. W.) to know what would be
the course of events in that House, but he' knew that 'those
who belonged to the Radical party in that House were placed
now in a very pleasant position. That party had no advocates
in tke daily press. They were misrepresented, maligned,
abused.—(Hear.) However, it was some good' for a public
man to be abused, for it was a proof he was worth
something.—(Hear.) But what had been the course of
events during the last year? Twelve months since, the
Whigs when-in offiee, made certain proposals to the House.
lion. Gentlemen on the opposite side disapproved not only
of the proposals, but the men ; they Said they would have
neither, and the Whigs were tusnea out. He (Mr. W.)
wanted to know what they were likely to gain or obtain by the
change. He remembered the proposal made by the Whig
Chancellor of the Exchequer involved a question with refer-
ence to the revenue, and the main point of his proposal was,
that there should be an increase of revenue by a reduction of
taxation. Now that the public had not forgotten. There was
• to be an increase of the revenue by lessening the burdens of
the people. —( Opposition cheers.) They had a powerful Ad-
ministration at the present moment, and what was the first
proposal they had got ? To continue the duty on corn—to
continue the duty upon the food of the people. That was the
first proposal, and he could not refrain from expressing his
flisapprobation of that proposal being brought forward singly.
s' He did not think it was treating the House with lair-
,' rim, and that in the entire absence of the other
proposals which the Right Honourable Baronet had
to snake, in an utter absence of knowledge
,:of those pro-
posals, he did not think they were prepared to discuss the pre-
sent question with advantage to the public. Presently the
House would be committed to this question.. It would

be decided by a large majority that the scale which the Right
Hon. Baronet had proposed should be adopted. What might
be the next proposal? Probably an increase of taxation spread
over the surface of the land, and reaching to the poorest work-
men in this country. Ile (Mr. Wakley) did not know that such
'would be the case, but he feared it might happen. With respect
to the present proposal of the Right Hon. Baronet, he (Mr.
Wakley) was free to confess that it was an improvement
on the present system. There could be no doubt entertained
on the subject ; but at the same time, remembering that the
try had been that the price of food was too high—that you bad
unjustly laid duties on the importation of foreign corn ; he was
bound to state—he did not hesitate to prophecy, that on an
average of years the scaleof the Right Hon. aronetwould not
reduce the price of wheat in this country one sixpence per
quarter. On that subject he felt perfectly confident, but then
Hon. Gentleman opposite considered that it was a sacrifice of
t 0 per cent. brought on the landed interest, and even one
lion. Gentleman proposed to increase the duty. He (Mr.
W.) would be curious to learn what reduction in rents
+would take place in consequence of the proposed scale..
It would be a curious fact to investigate. Of course, the far-
mers would go to the landlords, and say, " You voted for the
present scheme, admitting that it was a sacrifice of 20 per cent.
to the landed interest. Now we claim of you a reduction of 20
per cent in the rent." He (Mr. W.) would ask, could such
a demand be refused? could it in any justice be refuted,
if the lion. Gentlemen were sincere in their assertions? But
to go back tothe history of their proceeding; havinc, resolved
not to have the late Administration, the House had got its
successor. Let them compare the proposals of the two. lie
would ask which of the proposals sow made were calculated
to satisfy the public ? Was it in any respect of a nature to in-
sure the public that they would have relief from those burdens
which pressed so heavily upon them ? The proposal did not
hold out the slightest prospect of that; on the contrary, the
t rade; of the country would be fettered as severely as at the pre-
sent moment. ".1. he new scale would only produce a more re-
gular trade in corn, without any reduction of
price. The consequence would be that our manufac-
turers would be labouring under the same difficulties
as hitherto, there would be uo reduction of burdens extended
to the people. Then what hope, he asked, had persons out
of doors that any relief would be applied to them ? If the
landed interest were, as stated, suffering under burdens which
mainly pressed upon agriculture, and was peculiar to it, let them
thee, as tho Hon. Member for Bath said, buy them off; relieve
them of those burdens—set the trade of the country free.
That had been the recommendation of the Hon. Gentleman.

it was a recommendation based on common sense, and on a
correct view of the question under discussion. It showed at
my rate that there was one in the House who understood it ;
but lie (Mr. Wakley) feared that although that was
thoroughly understood by many others, they had not the courage
to apply the proper remedy. Why, the miserable, the slightest
burdens that pressed upon the agricultural interests were
sought to be relieved. It was quite clear that the agricultu-
riss had had the kind consideration of the Legislature. Mil-
lions had been extracted from the people, in consequence of the
tax upon corn, and never could be refunded to the plundered par-
ties. It was impossible. Millions had gone down to the grave in
destitution and misery in consequence of the unjust laws
which the House had imposed. The Hon. Member for Pon-
tefract complained of class egislation. What was it but
special legislation, as if the parties who had made these
laws had done so for their own benefit, and in opposition
to the best interests of the community ? Could it be denied
that the laws were so constructed? No man who reflected for
a moment upon the Corn-laws, could entertain an opposite
opinion. They appeared to have a never ceasing tendency
against the industry of this country. There was no
relief from the operation of the pressure. It was
invariable, never ceasing, never ending, everlastingly
°
peratitig to the disadvantage not only of this country, but of
all the markets in the world. What had the working man
to dis
. P°se of but his labour? What other prospect had he to
maintain himself with? and yet being destitute of every
other mean
would e every other property, they said they
control of it as they thought proper.
—( fettereahear's
Whatever his skill, energy, and in-
dustry accomplis:h)ei
nor should he purchase be should not sell in the best market,
in I,:isie food at the cheapest rate. Such was
the language
they addressed the poor man. It was
the master evil of the
tilt, peopl„f Enalan:orld. It was the landlord's curse upon
but the people of En gland were be-
coming too wise anti
too
sensible to endure it. He would
tell Honourable Gentlemen opposite they were straining
the rope too tight. They
seemed really to have lost
their common sense upon this,
question—What has made
ct. He would put to them
this simple
the land so saluable in
this country ? What but manufapcatireins.kinßefore manufactures
were introduced, was not rent
,d?—were not their
tenants the merest serfs that ever eat,ted.
id not the dom devolve
_ upon the land:'
That main-
tenanceof e very institution in the king
That was the case ift the ancient time. Then his rents be-
came a penny, and then Cid. an acre. Now they amount to a
thousand, and what was this owing to ? To the bringing
the wealth of the world to this country, in eonsequeneeo the skill
of
and industry of its people. What was the reward of those l
He (Mr. NV.) almost blushed to think of the manner ir voirta
the people of this country were treated by the English"
aristocracy. He hoped it was not attributable to any
selfish or sordid feeling, but to ignorance, and to
ignorance alone of what their own duty was, and
what the condition of the people. If they knew the sufferings
~`the people, arid the pleasure they themselves would derive
front seeing the entire country happy
and prosperous,
he could not believe they would persevere in such an unjust
!Ad. foolish course of legislation. It was very unpleasant
to speak to interested parties in that House, with feelings of
rn" t ~., because he felt that Hon. M b .
mooted
em ers were corn-
upon for the- . that ainblage..tone and manner in which they addressed
260,000 ofla~e,
the iZetiftlalr. Wakley) was the representative of
His eonstituents sent ui.inttoof
that
north of this metropolis.
House to demand justice in