The Sun.
London, England, 1829-05-21 00:00:00

CHANCERY BILL.

On the motion that the Bill for regulating the
proceedings in the Court of Chancery be read a
third time,

Lord ELDON addressed their Lordships, but
in so low a tone of voice, that but little of what
he said could be heard below the Bar. We
understood his Lordship to say, however, that
the duties of the Lord Chancellor could never be
properly performed while the Chancellor had to per-
form the double duty of sitting upon the woolsack
and also in the Court of Chancery.

(LEFT SITTING.)

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. HOBHOUSE moved the third reading of
he St. James's Vestry Bill.

After a few words from Mr. PONSONBY and Mr.
J. MARTIN, who were inaudible in the gallery,
Mr. S. DENISON expressed his surprise that
such an amendment should have been proposed, as
the amendment on that clause was lost in the Com-
mittee by 14 to 1, and the Hon. Member for Mid-
dlesex was the only Member who supported it.
Mr. ESTCOURT supported the amendment.

Sir ROBERT WILSON said, that it had been
advised that certain propositions should be made, in
order to procure an amicable arrangement, but the
opponents of the Bill would not listen to it. No
blame could be thrown on the Committee, who acted
unanimously, and strangers to party feeling. It had
been admitted a malversation of the pariah money
had taken place, and he thought that under such
circumstances the House would not allow 1100.pe-

titioners to remain under the government against
which they had petitioned.

Mr. HOBHOUSE said that it was somewhat
hard that at the eleventh hour the Bill should be
met by an objection, which, if made at all, should
have been brought forward at an earlier and a fairer
stage of the proceeding. The House would observe
that the conduct throughout of the opposing party
had not been characterised by fairness. Who were
the Members who had spoken first tonight ? Why,
both those Hon. Members were themselves niem.
bets of the Select Vestry of St. James's.—(Hear,
hear, hear.),,He did not mean to say that
those Honourable Qentlemen would do any thing
Wrong, He would answer for the conduct of
the Honourable Member, and there were plenty to
be answerable for that of the Hon, Baronet, but he
did think that every person belonging to any body
must have a feeling in preference of that body. He
could not think that the fact of the names of those
respectable gentlemen being on the Select Vestry,
afforded a guarantee for the good management of
the parish, and the expenditure of 63,0001. Of the
32 vestrymen, there were several who had never
once been present at the auditing the accounts.
Earl Spencer had been a vestryman ten years
without ever having been present, and he
could mention many more names who had
acted in the same way. He considered then
that the House would not intercept the Bill at
this late stage, when it had passed through the
Committee by a majority of 14 to 1, and that one, a
select vestryman, and he might say an intereited
party.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL supported the aroand-
"lent.
Mr. BYNG said, that it had been proposed, that
nearly 100 of the dons of the parish were to have
beep elected, but the Bill underwent so great an
alteration in Committee, that the number of vestry-
men were 4.5. One-third of which were tts have
gone out every year. He would have been very well
contented to have gone on as he had done for the
last thirty years, but he found that it was not agree-
able to the parishioners, and he wished to continue
on the same principles as he had done.—(Here the
cries of " Question" became so loud, that strangers
were ordered to withdraw.)

The result of the divison was—
For the Amendment, tilt/ the Bill be read
;Ida day Three Months .. 61
For Original 31,)tion B3
.„„ —22
Mr. SLANEY presented a petition from Hert,
law, in the county of Durham, praying the House
would pass 14w to regulate the collection of poor,
rates.

EAST REWORD.
Mr. H. FANS postponed his motion for the
Speaker to issue a writ for the election of a Mem-
ber for the borough of East 11,tford until Monday.
Mr. HUME moved for various returns connected
with tile bcclesiastical Courts.

Mr. O'CONNELL.
At twenty minutes past Five, the order of the
House was called on, that the speaker do issue his
warrent fur a New Writ for the County of Clare,
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL—sir, it will
be in the recollection of the House, that upon a
former occasion, when this matter was under its con-
si,derationosome Meniber to whosejudgment great de-
ference was dye, said it would be it better to have a
reference at wire to the recent statute that:has passed
to disfranchise the forty-shilling 4eholders, On that
account, Sir, therefore, I shall withdraW the motion
for the purpose of adding that the writ issue with
those additions which the recent Act proposes.
The SPEAKER then put the question to the
House; and
SPRINP RICE rose for the purpose of
moving an amend-merit to the new proposition,
and to the motion before the Hone. ; take the
liberty, Sir, observed the Hon. Gent., very earttestiy
of intreating the indulgence of the House, in what I
shall have to ;ayupon the present question. For I
do assure them-that no individual, at any time, felt
so deeply convinced of the necessity of craving its
indulgence as I do. I wish, in the first place, to
state that the motion I make is wholly uneattnected
with the individual whose name has been So often
,t .rationed, It neither proceeds from his suggestion,
norlroro up; communication direct or indirect on my
connected part,or on, thea n
d parta toitrey
pre.ikra individual with whom I am
moment I do not
know what may be the feelings or the wioies of tat
indiwicl!ial. I need not therefore say it is nncOn-
pected with s~ny party feeling. I am ready to
erltnit that I am Plakiiig the motion in discharge
sicfluty owe to'the
There is no
A... 4 4,0,0 cl4l toqpiess to the 'Muse the

obligations I owe to the Government than I am ; it
is therefore not out of hostility to them that I bring
forward- the motion, but it • is- With reference to
the tranquillity of Ireland, and the Act lately pass-
ed. I trust that when Honourable Members come
to consider the case, they will find, that though they
were in a majority on a late occasion, that Mr.
O'Connell was not entitled to his seat, yet that they
will be induced to say it is a state of the law that calls
for a remedy. I should not have brought forward
this motion at all had it not been for the motion
of the Hon. Gentleman opposite. I wish to refer
to circumstances which took place on the Catholic
Relief Bill "when in the Committee. Gentle-
men will recollect that in the Committee on that
Bill, an Hon. Friend of mine, the Member for Dublin,
was disposed to suggest to the House the propriety of
amending that particular clause of the Bill which
applies to Roman Catholics elected before the
Act,! not having taken their 'seats, i'n fact, that
part of the Act which applies specifically though
not by name to the case of Mr. O'Connell. On
that occasion I stated to the House, as I was re-
quested to do by Mr. O'Connell, that he did not
wish any question personal to himself should be in-
troduced on the passing of that Bill calculated to
intercept the progress of the measure, from which
he expected benefit to his country. It will be
recollected that I distinctly stated at the time, that
in making that eommunicat;on, I made it merely
upon his part, and expressed no opinion of my own,
direct or indirect, on it. As this point may
be mistaken, I will not say, misrepresented, I took
the liberty of referring, with regard to this very
subject, to a Right Hon. Friend of mine, a member
of his Miijesty's Government, who is not now pre-
sent, who spoke to me after I had made my com-
munication, and observed with what caution I had re-
served my own opinion. I admit if Mr. O'Connell were
DOW w be a petitioner at the bar, if be were now
to seek that relief which I shall ask for him,

the declaration he then made might be pleaded
in. the bar. But the present measure does
not proceed from him, but from grounds of public
policy, as material to the peace of Ireland. No act
of Mr. O'Connell—no act of mine, if I had
been inconsiderate enough to commit myself,
oug'it to distract the House from this great
question which is to convey to the greatest quantum
of relief. I come, Sir, in the first instance, to con-
sider the proposition of my Honourable Friend
the Solicitor-General. It was on Tuesday last
that after a very protracted debate, which had
taken place on the Monday, an order was made for
the attendance of Mr. O'Connell; Mr. O'Connell
attended; you, Sir, communicated to him the reso-
lution of the House, and the order consequently
made upon it. Mr. O'Connell, at the hour of
four ()lock on that day was not in official
possession of the decision of Parliament. Without
notice the Solicitor-General moves that a new writ
do issue for the election of a Member for Clare,
or, in other words, he moves that Mr. O'Connell
who hal been duly elected, should be driven to a
new election. I cannot but complain of the
breathless haste with which the Solicitor-Ge-
neral proceeded. The House is here called on
to act in its severest capacity. The proposition
of the Solicitor-4;eneral was a proposition which,
in point of faet, would have been imperative at the
time, the Learned Gent. now finds himself compelled
to withdraw his proposition, and submit a new one
applicable to the state of the law as it now is ;
but which is in itself equally objectionable.
And now let us see [what this proposition is.
There are gentlemen who seem to consider that it
is part of the law of the land, that upon a repre-
sentative refusing to take the oaths the election is
to be considered void, and that a new election must
take place, Now, I apprehend the Learned Solidi-
tor,General will not contend for that. I think he
will admit that it is a very different case to one in
which Mr. O'Connell might have sat and voted in
this House, and then have refused to comply with
the forms, This is an act, if it be to be justified at
all, Intt,t be justified by the will and pleasure of the
Houle ; there is no law upon the point—it rests en-
tirely upon expediency, and that expediency is en-
tirely within the province of the House. The Hon.

and Learned Gent. in moving this proposition did not
state one single argument in recommendation. It
stands now as given from the chair, simply upon re-
ferenco to the precedent then referred to of the case
of A, chdale. It is, no doubt, however, competent

for the House to use its own discretion. The case
of Archdale is the only one that applies; the other
cases mentioned come totally under a different
principle, The individuals in the other cases were
Members of Parliament who were called upon to
take oaths ; those oaths were of a different character,
and the whole proceedings were totally inapplicable
to the case now before the House. Mr. Arch-
dale
had not taken hici seat, he refused to
be sworn, and Mr. O'Connell therefore comes
within the principle that applies to his case.—
I could have wished that the case had rested
still upon the declaration of Mr. O'Connell refusing
to take the oath, for then he would have exercised
his discretion whether he would or would not have
asked for the Chiltern Hundreds ; but by the step
taken by the Hon. anti Learned Gentleman no such
opportunity has been afforded to him. At four
o'clock in the afternoon he learns that the House
has decided aping him, and in live minutes
afterwards the new writ is moved for.(Hear.)
It is said that the au-pension of the new writ might
have been moved for, and that then it would have
rested with the House to say, whether or not that sus•
pension should be granted, regard being had to the ful,
ness of the House. Now, I confess, I can see no force
in that argument, unless the electors of the county of
Clare had applied to the House, and complained that
they were unrepresented, and called on the House
to issue a new writ. The electors of the county of
Clare have been unrepresented on u former occasion,
so that if the doctrine of the fulness of the House
renders it necessary that all counties should be
represented, then that of Clare has a right to
complain of the negligence of the House on
a former occasion. Clare was represnted by a gen-
tleman holding the Colonial_ Office and discharging
Colonial duties I believe ; but if I be wrong in
that, I know that it has bet!' represented by an

lion. Friend of my own, who was at that very time
dischargipg -official duties at the Court of Stock-
holm. What I now coinplaio of is the issuing the new
writ without complaint, and without any argument
in support of it having been bOressed to the
House. Such a step is bringing the House of
Cprniptplii into the exercise of a prerogative which it
has the right or h4§ riot the right to eercise in
contact with a angle individual; by it, you
are running the risk of making Mr. O'Connell a
political martyr, and of raising- afresh the distorh-
ances in Ireland, of what we have lately heard so
much. I believe the whole of the community are
ready to sympathise with Mr. O'Connell. If the
exercise of the prerogative of the House against an
ii.dividual (I mean in the case of Wilks), created
ggitation throughout the country, how much
more is that - agitation to be expected and felt
in the case of Mr. O'Connell, and how much greater
is the necesaity of guarding against it ? He asked
you in the address which he so powerfully made to
the House, what you meant to do with him ? Did
you mean to make him a political outlawry ? I 1611
'oot ropeat what he stated, but I will contend, if
there. are any here who suppose this to I.e
regarded as a tran.4ction simply between the Hous,---;
and Mr. O'Connell, such individuals are extremely',
itsnoriiitp of the State of Ireland. Ali. 'O'COnnell, it
is true, t 3 the PkirliainkintarY ItenreSentative of the
county of Ciare, hut lie is bcitintl'up inthe symin}:
thus 4nd feelings of the Catholie'eople of frelatid.
The lion. Gentleinall then proceeded. The House
had heard much of the agitation that lately existed
itt Ireland, and they now had many proofs that that
agitation had happily subsided. He would, there-
-I§rf
,cOl on the House to consider whether the step
n otyabOut to pe would not again raise that
agitation. The House during the present Session
passed three of the most important Measures ever
were brooght under its consideration, he'meant the

HULL MARKET.—May 19.

—The supply of farmer's Wheat to this day's market about equals
Mutt we have had latterly, and even the best samples met a heavy
sale at a reduction of Is. per quarter. We had several parcels of
foreign Wheat offering from granary, but none but the finest
qualties were in request, which maintained last week's cur-
rency ; had buyers come forward for &Kill fair runs, a reduction
of Is. per quarter would have been complied with. Secondary
qualities and Old are ,carce:y inquired after ; very lit' le demand
at present for Bond I,',"heats. We have very little inquiry after
Oats, Beans, and Barley, tither' free 'or udde‘ 1c k, and pirce4
may be generally stated without alteration. Rapeseed and Lin.
seed are beth held at the same prices as last week, and both artil
cies in rather more demand.
Wheat, Old Bds.New
-- Foreign —s. 68s. '705...,...1n bond...
Oats, Poland —s. it.s Old 2od.
Small or Feed.... —s. 12s. 18s.
Foreign —s. 21s. 24s ......
Barley, Norf. & —s '4Bs. Linc...& Vold —s. 28s. 30s.
-- Foreign
.

Beans 345. 3qs

38s. Foreign —4.

,Pease, White - --s. 425. Grey:. Jo"
I a
—s 3ts. 3Cs. Foreign 285.
Rapeseed, in Lionel none.

Vs. 310.
32, -;-4.
481. 301,

DUMFRIES MA,
- O. @:- d. s. d. a. d.
nosh— 8 5 to $ 9 Butter, 100 z..... . . ... .., 0 9 to 0 9
Wheat, Imp. r-,
Barley , ••
4 0 4 6 Eke, dozen 0 0 0 7
Oats
2 0 3 0 Reef, per lb.
0 3 0 4
Flopr, 1.911, ..... ',"'"? g 4 3 0 Mptto9 a 3 2 4 Veal 9 4 0 0
Oatmeal ~
Potatoes, cwt.

LETS.-May