The Sun.
London, England, 1845-07-08 00:00:00

STANDING ORDERS.

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved that the
standing order of which he had given notice be added
to the standing orders of the House:—" That the direc-
tors appointed shall continue in office until the first
ordinary meeting to be held after the passing of this
Act, and at such meeting the shareholders present, per-
sonally or by proxy, may either continue in office the
directors appointed by this Act, or any member of them,
or may elect a new body of directors, or directors to
supply the place of those continued in office; the direc-
tors appointed by this Act being eligible as members of
such new body."
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said this was a
question which not only concerned the Members of the
Legislature, but every person in the country who had a
sovereign in his pocket. The person who had refused
to have anything to do with the scheme, afterwards
found to his astonishment that he had attended a meet-
ing in favour of the line, and had not only attended a
meeting, but had made a speech, although he had never
been near the place; nevertheless, his name had been
used, as also had the names of other persons in the
country, who were also reported to have made speeches,
though they had neither given their sanction, nor had
they attended or spoken at the meeting in question.
This gentleman advised the bankers of the company not
to pay the money which had been subscribed since their
names had been so surreptitiously used, large sums of
money having been subscribed in consequence of the re-
port to which he had referred.—(Hear, hear.) He
would recommend that the practice should be put a stop
to by a standing order, requiring proof of the consent of
the parties whose names appeared as promoters of the
Bill.—(Hear, hear.) Parties could have no security
unless this were done.
Lord BROUGHAM complained that their Lordships
were too apt to take the correctness of the proceedings
of the House of Commons for granted, instead of in-
vestigating for themselves. The gentleman whose name
was placed in the Bill as one of its promoters did not
know of its existence until it had received the royal
assent. He deprecated the gambling mania of the pre-
sent day, and trusted that the public would not fall into
the snare of those cheats—he could use no milder term
—who were more anxious to propose schemes, that
they might take them into the market, than to carry
them out.
The Earl of FITZIIARDINGE said the case applied
to his brother, Mr. Grantley Berkeley, who knew no-
thing of the Bill until he was sued for 530,0001. on behalf
of the company, and his solicitor had informed him that
his own expenses, whether the matter was settled or no,
would be 4001.
Lord ASHBURTON could hardly conceive it pos-
sible that a person could be sued for the debts of a com-
pany, and hoped that steps would be taken to prevent
its repetition.
Lord BROUGHAM assured the Noble Lord that
such was the law of the land.
Lord ASHBURTON said that there was no Act of
that kind which made a subscriber liable to a greater
extent than his subscription.
Lord CAMPBELL said the subscriber was just as
much liable as if he signed and sealed the most solemn
instrument of law by which consent was obtained.
A message from the Commons was here announced,
intimating that it was their wish that his Grace the
Duke of Grafton should be allowed to attend the Select
Committee of the House of Commons now sitting on the
operation of the game-laws.—Agreed to.
The motion was then put that the order moved by the
Noble Marquis (Clanricarde) should be added to the
standing orders of the Houses—Agreed to.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a peti-
tion from a place in Ulster, which, he said, would be fol-
lowed by others to the same effect, against the Landlord
and Tenant Bill.
The Earl of FALMOUTH presented 36 petitions
against the Wolverhampton Railway Bill.
Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from a num-
ber of ironmasters to the same effect ; also a petition
against the Edinburgh and Direct Northern Railway Bill.
Lord BROUGHAM presented 58 petitions, which,
with 65 on a former occasion, made altogether 123 peti-
tions, against the Cornwall Railway Bill.
ASSESSMENT OF WAGES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Lord KINN A.IRD moved the third reading of this
Bill.—Agreed to.
BRAZIL SLAVE TRADE BILL.

The Earl of ABERDEEN moved ti;e second reading
of this Bill. A treaty was conclud9d in 1826 between this
country and Brazil for the abolition of the slave trade.
The first clause of that treaty stipulated that three years
after the expiration of that treaty the sl ,ve trade should
be abolished in Brazil, and all parties concerned in it
should be treated as pirates. Her Majesty would have the
power of seizing and punishing the subjects of Brazil
engaged in the slave trade. The Noble Lord then de-
tailed the various negotiations which had been entered
into for the suppression of the slave trade with Brazil,
and referred at great length to documents on the sub-
ject. The object of the Bill, therefore, was briefly this
—to remove from the Board c•f Admiralty the restric•
tion which had been imposed upon them by the Act of
the 7th and Bth of George IV., for carrying out the
treaty made at that period with Brazil for the suppres-
sion of the slave trade. The old treaty had been openly
violated—shiploads of human beings had been landed at
the capital ; their officers had been unable to carry out
that treaty in full force, and had even been ill-treated
and slain in the execution of their duties. He therefore
moved that the Bill he read a second time.
The Bill was accordingly read a second time.
DOG STEALING BILL.

The Duke of BEAUFORT moved the second reading
of this Bill, and briefly described its objects. There was
a great anomaly in the law in its present form, and that
the audacious traffic might be put a stop to, it was ne-
cessary that the Bill should be passed, that dogs might
be placed on a similar footing with other property.
Lord CAMPBELL considered that the law was quite
strong enough at present to protect property in dogs,
which were frequently far from valuable, and partially, if
not wholly, abandoned by their owners.
The Duke of BEAUFORT said the Bill had received
great attention in Committee, but he was ready to adopt
any suggestions which the Noble and Learned Lord
might think proper to make.
The Bill was then read a second time.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILL.
Lord BROUGHAM moved the second reading of this
Bill, and, in doing so, said it would greatly facilitate the
trial of prisoners. The present judges were totally in-
capable of delivering the jails, and nothing could be
more ridiculously absurd than the distinction between
the practice at the Central Criminal Court, in the circle
over which it presides, and the practice in
the counties
of England. lie considered that a most crying injustice.
A suitable expedient was devised to remedy the incon-
venience, by making a six months' circuitinstead of the
present circuit of eight months in one part of the year,
and four months in the other. He was morally certain
that such a grievous injustice would be no longer tole-
rated. The country, he repeated, would not suffer it ; and
if the class to which the prisoner belonged had either real
or virtual representatives in Parliament, it would have
been put an end to long ago. The only mode was to in-
crease the number of judges. This he considered a dif-
ficult matter, as they would have no employment at any
other time than while they were engaged on circuit, as
there were no other courts over which they could preside.
He wished, however, that two additional judges should
be appointed, and that Chamber business should in future
be conducted in public, over which they could be up-
pointed to preside. He would conclude by moving the
second reading of the Bill.
The Duke of RICHMOND thought it highly desir-
able that the time which prisoners were unfortunately
detained in gaol before trial should be greatly shortened.
He considered, however, that if that Bill passed, the
county rates would be considerably increased. There
would be also the inconvenience of bringing witnesses
and prisoners to the place of assize. The consequence
would be, that instead of paying 701. or 801. for each
criminal as at present, the expense would b. e doubled.
He hoped that if there was any extra charge it would be
paid out of the Consolidated Fund, and not, as at present,
out of the county rate.
Lord CAMPBELL was not adverse to the principle of
the Bill, but the details he considered would not stand at
all. There were no provisions made for the finding of
bills before grand juries or petit jurors, where the
prisoner was to be confined after sentence, or how the
sentence was to be carried into execution. His own in-
dividual opinion was, that there ought to be a new Com-
mission issued altogether, whose duty would be to take
the whole question into consideration. Since Edward
the Sixth there was no change whatever, either as to
the distribution of the circuits, or the number of the
judges. He thought, too, that Ireland and England
should be considered jointly in that Commission, and
that there should be an interchange of judges between
the two countries. He believed that English judges
would be received in Ireland with favour, and their de-
cisions would be looked up to with respect. There were
two Irish judges whose time was not fully occupied, and
who might be brought over here, and the Irish circuits
might be more consolidated than what they were at pre-
sent. The Bill was in a crude, he would not say an
imperfect, state ; and he should, therefore, recommend
that it should be deferred, as, in its present state, i
would not efficiently carry out the benevolent intentions
of his Learned Friend ; and if it were improved and
extended to Ireland as well as England, it would have
a very beneficial effect.
The LORD CIIANCLLOR said he should feel it his
duty to recommend to her Majesty the establishment of
another Commission with more extensive powers than
the one with which the present Bill emanated. He had
always been in favour of judges going to a central spot
to try parties, and that the jury and witnesses should
come to the place where the judges sat; by this, business
was promoted, and expense saved. He would, there-
fore, suggest that the Bill should stand over until it was
seen whether the Government would take the. subject
under their consideration.
Lord DENMAN objected to postponing the Bill,
and of appointing another Commission, the re-
sults of which theT would not learn f
years. The time of imprisonment was too long
—four months was too long. What compensation was
it to a man to discharge him after confining him in the
gaol for several months ; or svhat punishment was that
which took into account the time he had been in prison
before trial, and made allowances for it? He was in
favour of a more frequent delivery of gaols. Through
three of the judges of the Queen's Bench being required
to go on the Winter Circuit, 400 cases of arrears were
on aocount of the judges giving up their leisure time,
ultimately reduced to 100. Besides, a more fre-
quent delivery of gaols would reduce crime, as ignorant
men, who plunged heedlessly into crime, would be re-
strained from doing so by being speedily brought to
iustice.

Lord BROUGHAM spoke in favour of the Bill. If