The Sun.
London, England, 1845-02-27 00:00:00

~,,..--w

if political dogma out into it full for,
They did, it
would de feats conse
and overtuqrnuences Zvithe ry
thing which the desired to prove. They had applied
this petit' 1 d
•
. ogma to the subject of bringing :lave
n
Zus ur into the markets of this country. It was !
that tu'ris, of thoso dogmas were correct in the princip•e
winch they were intended to suppert, but there was also
certain tendency in them, and if this tendency were
111111a1ified. those Hon. Gentlemen would find that, in
me application of their di,smas, they defeated their own
end• In the d( mile hich they had applied to the
itoaorkiresenltgillieu of the inliroductien of Fumy, they had overe.
!'t' the market's dement. The sugar grown i
possessions had the command of a great numbt r
of tile mark:. ts of the amid. It ails a common nee( s-
le:st it had nearly become so—and cion-
-141""tly the sugar of the British p .sessions had less
Portssit
h. a, for they we re confined to fswer markt ts.
osor of the West India possessions were cense-
Plt.iced under disadvant?geons
.circumstances.
d I 1. changes
'digs
parties, who w. re deeply affecte_ as I its. 4
14W —parties who, from their long experience an.
stake in the interest. now before the House, ought,s
itl)iiu
i:leopinion, to heard with great reis.prt
oortletyliior
the ~,t---thybie parties acre fsir judges
- erations proposed in the sugar trade,t 'aenpd might
eon admitted with advantage as evidence of
_the
ati nc(ll4'nees of the comp.iti.ion which the altti -
irrehesdeeolnefpetit,thi:n 'tdoilferential duties would create.
the gentietnen had entertaieed great fears oi
which they were about to be sub-
.s "'lad had expressed their deep convictitn that the
USIOTI of the sugars of Cuba and Brazll had tended
14reee4tlY t" `scum to them a benefit a hich they felt to be
s e•"arY to
kilos Otis welfare. Had this not beeffi their con-
6tslte*-had they nut been assured that they had a greatrea
yiew in the matter--they would surely have lo.ng
them to the pressure a hich had lain so lif3l%ily upon
e
st• In-' and would, if from tio ode r eatrie, yet for the s:
th,ZeilY aetting this question at r, st, and thus savi.ng
of "-es from the injury a hich the constant discu
lion, 8
titterb 11 occasioned—have last year joined with
''
GI Cietilterean opposite. But they knew, as he (A r.
twesn't tebtl.e) kutrr, that the re was a great difference be-
. h-Als country and Brazil. The cheapness of labour
cruPleyment of slaves would have given to
t"rsa Err at advantages after. the repeall .o
muse
This benefit, the Noble Lore. said,
fow ;it elltahly have been shared among the consumers;
was re aPPeared to him (Mr. Gladstone) that anntrrz
resps,itY Prevalent in the country, and in that etttfl_s,
ebr'untsl, the quality of the sugars introduced. into this
4tsvas-a,st(uri Havat nah. The overage quality of the
iTIPpo ed--g sugars was a high quality, and net, as it' was
;"glass lowarrquality; and therefore it was that. the
-11 0„. su"o Gentlemen opposite to this subject was
it'itireutrissrritu one, for the application of this fact would
There the conclusion at which they had arrived.
uf the, siss little doubt in his mind but that the..abolitittm
the the 9111erential duties would give a great stimulus
this -,n,eiresse of Cuba and Breizil. It a as believed that .
titien:tuulus would so act as to crett'e a great compe-
this- 14 the British market in the sale of sugars, that
this le,2lllPotition would increase the demand,. and thatd
unisi?fland womld be sati,.fied by the sugars of Cuba an.
without so that there would be abundance for the peope
pen. that elevation of price which would otherwise be
b,,enlned if the thanand had increased and the supply
Itt olftldted to the sugars of our West Indian colonies..
that r• Gladstone) did ra t share in the anticipation the
lit to sugars of slave countries would so groyv in amou
tis„. answer the. requirements of an increasing popula
e'er pros the contrary, he thought that there wasa
eslosi„Pect of this increase from our West Indictt
la ; and he.believed that if their interests were not
4 B,tispred as to interfere with their produce, they wouldds
thY the demands of this country. On these grounds 44 ()light the proposition of his Hon. Friend neither
tstitelcable• nor illusory. The Hon. Member (Mr.
Pasilechere) who had sat down had said that this pro-
Prost,'ett:neither more nor less than a renewal of the
stieths't‘oti of 'his. Hon Friend the Member fur Bristol;
'hje:ltwas not. the* *opinion of Hon. Members on his
t.; toe }Luse The Noble Lord had said that his
;4 p- !)ritigirg.mation, was to put the House
'esPeekl,3:4L°rl of in
certainty as to their future conduct
tsiq--ng the .income tax. Now he (Mr. Gladstone)
aslant saY that, -for his part. he thought that he had.
tilts ,Ilhe heardanything more shadowy and inconclusive
(14 tar anything
of the Noble
dotLrd. He had talked.of
'''tret'" 14P:,- and labour,
111,kse %,.as a- duty of 14s. on British-grown
h TO would be a duty of 28s. on sugar
t„-"tha' (das ,the produce of foreign countries, and had
t'at4t.tltuat thi • l'ff,rence was acting as an impe.ch-
t'elti(),Ce salefst(hie 'sugars ofJava and Manilla, which
rrn to
the duties now imposed. He was com•
‘,;l. p direr from the conclusion of the Noble Lord,
;4trefe,Wila nethino• revent the sale of these sugars,
Tit eend or free'. 'This he would endeavour to shoNtiv
f t'l'4l.o,' from the statements of the Noble Lord.
s„l"'s s4,„ws,tthat'the sugar likely to be introduced into
illhe'l'Y was of two classes. These he would de- I
lithe ; the Clad and the Muscovado sugars, the latter
--er quality nd the former of the inferior quality.
isarsettware that he was not quite correct in describing
was re:)r qualit of foreign sur as cloyed sugar, but
st 4 ,• Y - Now the duty on elayed
fr,ritrt tient fur the purpose.
08t.n,gftr was 9s. 4d., while the Noble Lord was ,
the 445. The same terms were applied to..cachpr
,ta
o-
"dthili Phigher duty to the higher quality,
..n
141 r the i"sessiorts as well as from foreign countries,
it nw'r duty to the inferior quality from both.
is was • •
tsi 114.-zs. that all the sugar introduced from ,
At which was the largest source from whicharaz
ant altect to derive ur foreign supplies of
of 2.e sugars from Manilla mere subject to. thehighug
u‘.6l. C 3,81. 4d. According to the intimation of the
1:1C.11 a"' and of the Hon. Gentleman who had last sat
C'it'l'itAl;„,,,*stigar ould be subject to a duty of 285.,
145,41. troal British possessionstwould incur a duty
mistake, the sugar
iNcisenl But here was a great
sty th 41 from_Manilla was rot all of the quality sub
tlOl je high rate of duty, nor was the sugar from
s 01M nil the sugar manufactured in those countries,. the.
ihtl:lity,ll,:ll;the brown,- it was the former, the inferior
was best fitted for these markets ; and. if
tas(tl4„l3twlieer were inclined to send sugar of the best quality,
Pertilo was . subject to the highest. .duty, to this
haelli.4 e merchant who acted for .him the trans-
be
best fi the commodity would select that which
is Gitted for the markets of this country ; and
tut; 110,..‘"trdstone) would appeal to the experience of
sit, '!ember of that House acquainced with the
tit°sl,Prie-nti,,(l he might, in this instance, appeal to
th thi' the Member for Dover, as to his correct-
th:- so, respect He (Mr. Gladstone) could not
IS'dhllps-,jetti.ve that a* ny great injury could. arise from
that 1011 of these duties. Complaints had been
4.6,. the sugars of the West Indies had lately
st*tt,t.R 23- per cwt. Now, when lie recollected the
f
Yex,es eia-,ltntstances through which the proprietors
they' and 4.l;_e West Indies had passed during thelast
ssa 4" difficulties which for a series of years
thpetichired, he must say, that he was glad to pert°th-
thi4thstZ grounds of prosperity ; and he eould
which
grudged them the little prosperity
If "tot; ttuvanee evinced. It had been stated as an-
-4a Jesti
kit! lien„°ll to the measure of his Hon. Friend, that
%Vlit " Were derived from it, that benefit would
Itestlut the Pockets of the consumer. The question
tttl.lo(th'iether. the benefit would at once go into the
!Sot It-",„! consumer, but whether he got that benefit
"Is well known, that when a reduction first
ttittut-t) first ;tue benefit invariably went to the producer
feclY sr- 4astanee but who doubted but that it ulu-
totiit Miise,tlt to the 'consumer? He had received a. letter
°h 1% le'ter
, th„ 'hi,h , complaining that in the reduction on
t
d'w 7`,31.g 'lad just been made, the goods were no
lts• y°,loolls degree cheaper, but that the whole of
jin-' had gone into the pockets of the pro-
fasiew' he (Mr. Gladstone) did not see any
the Niss. ease of anv difference in this matter from
th,*hes,fiaL Principle, anti he did not doubt but that
4Poekett tbe reduction would ultimately go into
feat ,sak,,,ef the consumer. The fact was, the best
,tirqta sent Over to this country was unfit
jlNltrefiner. But the fact was, the ie-
eala:sittZl.s_tt,gar of a lower quality, and the
ex, lean h'' was sent over to Holland. [The Hon.
;Nio„rte Produced a sample of the best Java sugar
we
] lion. Gentlemen would sse b. y
rborwhiell he presented, and which was of a
.1,11 tbs__
any usual!seen in this country, that
IINiohl:ri.11. the refiner, if not, in fact, beyond his art.
4r)sih.e'tt"ii-...L'ord had stateder* that e was friendly to some.
the • rayst. a Protection of Bs., and had stated that by
'.l'iel„ll,,t'utv,i.e,l9 Process this duty would have saved all
,Tts. 11,tesets of the plan of his Right Honourable
ql3 C 1 'iad stated that the plan of his Right Hon.
111)t, suhstit W.asteful and extravagant, and th.at.
frllte would save all the mischief
tth,l theern it—(llear, hear)—that it would have
the l'a'N sugar trade, given a boon to the consumer,
iftine4%e h INS to th'e • tie If such were to be
triete,"lollght the Nreblleniao* d was bound to show
llttrtlietlivtttsa,:,,,,ettaei)l,hiion,atleureort,°dweolicollil.nartp•apilny generalities. He
the Noble Lord's
i? Of Practice. The Noble Lord would impose
'het: 41,11,..0p the British and 18s. on foreign sugars,
t,1,1.111,„° kind.lish or 2N on f 'reign, or 121. and 201. on
1 'Pltel4t)°,o"onfistiga.rs; *and thus he save the whole
IN of s which was given to the country by
b his Right lion. Friend.—(Heat, hear.)
enttrilllit'inti:',l'rig4,ll:,stiv,tn,oeudidtll,.at. a duty of 12s. on British, and
stimulus than 14s.
40 Lilted' -ins' 23i. on ffile'ga greaterll s iflight lion. Friend
wliole ore"; p • n' of the year at
(45();4001.th stip; uttinsd_lole wo•Cuolndsualulo-ttviothat the consumption,
‘'l.ls„,',,u,hteh r the Noble Lord's plan, would be
ette:l9.) Tio"ei'nConsideredthe
a very liberal allowance.
ere poi s import Of product of the duty upon the
el 230 000 -tons of British sugar, at
• •, wssis , 9
/4) 1%0 '."‘"l Lle 2,780,0001. ; and taking the in
Rio thst', that7,4,olllort at 70,000 tons to make up the
14 oat Puttia:l yield, at 20s. per cwt., 140,9001 i ;
ti,.:4,04,4,160, or_
..the two tog( ther, they
dwotan de
r'ititits„ 1(.1f learn
eThat plan, therefore,i, The next
prko.
}?l444sitl "ynrl tt!'e Ntlire v4l.lsl;el.7s(i.letire.)dutLh• of 10s. on
3110 tete) 181* on
allow] fi:reigar: sugar. 'Now he (Mr..
Nhis,'°oo wllld that to raise the consumption
.11(!y. 7110 Caua Iftagh)—or from '280,000 to 290,000,
Isin4,l)at n woueld't greater although not so good a de-
o, r aritlita
tot any gentleman acquainted with
er.441?4",..re1's pilette point.out in what way, upon the
is'etstcls Wens n 1 the amount of revenue would be re-
-1141 soPttii% "f" near.) Now that was a very serious
e 4 Ty or the
etesstiPps, the Plan of the Noble Lord, and he
ah 'l4 e siege elite Lord was not in the House, for
nretssiori of it was accidental, as it
ttP. llPPosgus th
tsoNs\4 the N_ e Noble Lord's plan, which he did
sh lc is this ,o "(de Lord meant to leave for him to fill
Ql4',Llitat a Lord
Lord John Russell came in and
Oy Midst
some laughter.) He had now.
4'46a' Plan ttolit.rsv
t14La,04301 b 3, on erti..as ag„res, that the Noble
he gat p'' arid e scale, would leave a deficiency of
th..towti art ef.thY another 1,290,0001. He would not
tholibttwlleot heip's subject delay the House longer, but
ti:ri slave,Ying a few words as to the disinc-
at if gIMVn and free-labour sur. He
'Y were to pretend to anything like a

r perfect and systematic consistency in legislating en
' these matters, the proposition of the Government must
be sustained. But the question was now practically
this, whether a ; ractical stimulant should he given to
the slave trade by encouraging the sugar of Cuba and
Brazil ? The question_had often been brought before the
House by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, rod often been de-
d in favour of the distinction. In 1842 the lion.
Member fur Dumfries moved fur an equalisation of the
duties, and similar motions had since been brought for.
ward. 11e (Mr. G.) could not say that those gentle-
men who insisted so much upon the interests of .eum-
merce ere inditrerent to the claims of humanity. They
ought not to accuse him aid those alto agreed with the
Government in this case of being indiff rent to commerce.
because in the present case they were willing to make some
sacrifice of commerce to protect humanity. The majo-
rity of the British Parliament had determined for years
that the distinction should be kept up. He regretted
that this question had been made me of ratty, and that
in 1841 it led to a political crisis, the acerbity engen-
dered by which had not yet passed ae ay.--(hear,
hear.) But he call, d upon G• ntlemen erposite to have
respect fur the aseertai, ed and repeatedly-expressed
opinion of the majority in that House.—(llear, hear.)
In 1840 the lion. Member for Dumfries brought the
subject of equalisation before the House. He propesed
a duty of 245. on Briti.h, and of 345. on all foreign
sugar. This was negatived by a majority of 95. In
1841 the qua soon was negatived, upon a division, of 281
ayes to 371 noel, making a majority of 90 against
the lion. Member for Dumfries. In 1842 the Hon.
Member for Taunton rroposed that the duty on British
sugar should be 205., and that on all fore'gn alike 30z.
TIKt was negatived; the ayes were 164, the noes 245.
being a majority of 81. In 1843 the Honourable
Member tOr. Lambeth moved a propositi. n, involv-
ing only a differeteial duty of 10:. upon all
foreign sugar. The tnejotity on that occasion
was 81, the numbers Mug, ayes 103, noes 222.
That showed that there had been no advance of public
opinion in favour of those Gentlemen's- views.—((fear,
hear.) In the same year the Hon. Member for Taunton
moved a proposition for the admission ofßrazilian sugar,
and it was negatived by a- majority of 73. Last year
the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) moved for a duty of
245. on. British, and of 345. on foreign sugar ; that was
negatived by a majority of .69. That was the seventh
timee in four years, when Parliament was called upon
to recognise the principle of the Noble Lord's proposi-
tion of that night, and Parliament each time gave a dt fi •
nice and sensible response.—(Hear, hear.) He granted
that there was a commercial feeling in the country
against the policy of the Govertiment,:but there was still
a more extended sentiment against rlavery, and in favour
of the policy of his Right.HumFriend.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. COBI)EN expressed dissent.
Mr. GLADSTONE—The lion. Gentleman need not
shake his head.(A laugh.) He admitted the ability
and sincerity of the Hon. Gentle man in the advocacy
of commercial principles ; but he could not agree with
him that.there was nut a strong feeling in favour of hu-
manity
in this quarter. Sir. T. F. Buxton, Dr. Lush-
ington, -Mr. Sturge, and Mr. Scoleell, were all supporters
of the political party now in opposition, but they were
also in favour of the policy of the Government on-the
present question.-a(Hear, hear.) And it was to be re-
membered that those were the men who had put an end
to slavery in the British dominions.— (Hear, hear.)
Whilst he called upen iion: Gentlemen opposite to re-
spect the often,asce rtained opinion of the majority of
Parliament, he would remind them that their movement
upon this subject excited little interest in the country
or in the ,house, and that the interest was diminishing
every. year.—(Hear, hear.) Surely it did not happen
upon any question of interest that the benches
should be so thinly covered, when the leader of the
opposition brought f rward a great motion, and the
Chancellor of the Exchequer was to answer.—(llcar,
hear. and a laugh.) If he could see any likelihood that
the Noble Lord would carry his principle even next
year, he (Mr. Gladstone) might think it better nut to
oppose it. But when there was such a stagnancy of
feeling out of doors, and when the feeling of Parlia-
ment had been incontestably expressed, he called upon
them (the Opposition) net 'to hold out prospects which
only encouraged Cuba and Brazil in perpetuating slavery.
They had it in their power, by keeping up hopes of
equalisation, to prevent the success of the policy of
Government in discouraging slavery in those places.—
(Hear, hear.) With, respect to the imputation
cast upon the British. people of being hypo-
critical in their professed desire to put an end
to slavery—those imputations were snore discre-
ditable to those who made them than to the British
people.—(Hear, hear.) lie could not admit that ' Mr.
Colonhoun's book was„ns it had:heen characterised by an
lion. Member, a statesmanlike production, and its im-
putations, upon the people of England were wholly un-
founded, and contradicted by the facts ; for the English
people had made great commercial sacrifices, in ex.-
eluding the trade of Cuba and Brazil rather than en-
courage slavery —(Hear, hear.) He begged of lion.
Gentlemen opposite to consider what the effect of their
proposition, ifcarried, would have upon the efforts made
to put down the slave trade by means of an armed navy.
With what decency could they shed blood and take
life, in the attempt to suppress the trade, if they ren-
dered it necessary by the increased demand for the pro-
ductions of slave labour. The question of armed sup-
pression was in a great measure prejudged by the move-
ments of those gentlemen who supported the principle on
which the Noble Lord's proposition was founded.—
(Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Gentleman concluded by
apologising to the House • tbr having detained them so
mush longer than he had intended.—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. MACAULAY said, if the motion had been one
of a merely financial or commercial character, it would
have been more becoming in him to have remained
silent, because there were Gentlemen on both sides of
the House more competent to deal with financial and
commercial matters than himself. But he could not
conceive that the question before them was either one of
a commercial or financial nature, for he did not under-
stand that. they were called upon to decide the question
upon pnrely commercial or financial grounds. lie took
it for granted, that the objection to the motion proposed
by his Noble Friend was one purely moral. They
were told that they were under a moral
obligation' to make a distinction between the
produce of free-labour and the produce of slave labour.
Now be was as much averse to the abominable traffic,
which was at present carried on between Africa and the
Brazils, as the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down.
He, however, thought that it was in his power to show
that no such moral grounds existed as those alleged by
Hon Members opposite existed. The Right Hon. Gen-
:leman the President of -the Board of Trade had ad-
mitted that this moral obligation restricted the com-
mercial interests of the ccuntry; and he (Mr. Macaulay)
thought that if he succeeded in showing that no such
obligation did exist, the proposition of his Noble
Friend ought to be adopted by. the House. The Right
lion. Gentleman who had just sat down had said
that if the House were to agree to it, the Government
would be placed in a position of considerable difficulty.
The Right Hon. Gentleman dwelt upon the inconsistency
which the Government would be guilty of, if they were
to make no distinction between the produce of a slave
and the produce of a free state. If they did not, the
Right Hon. Gentleman said it would be impossible for
them to continue their present measures for suppressing
slavery on ahe h;gli seas. Now it was imposs ble for
anyone to say that a person, or a body of persons, pro-
fessing to do a certain thing, for a certain moral
reason, could be acting with consistency while
they adopted mother course with regard to a
similar case. It was -impossible, if this were so,
to believe in the sincerity of those persons, or to
place confitlence in their powers of discrimination
But if this moral obligation were always to hold good
the natural consequence would be to throw the whole
commercial world into a state of confusion, and lie was
glad to see the Right Hon. Baronet's Budget was rot
based upon the same principle. He was far from deny-
ing the existence of this moral obligation ; but it
.could
not be applied in every came. Ile would give one in-
stance which would not only illustrate his argument, but
demonstrate the discriminating posers possessed by
lion. Gentlemen opposite. He would take the simple
article of tobacco. Not only did they take the tobacco
of the United States and of Cuba, which was grown not
only by slaves, but by slaves eh() had recently been im-
orted in defiance of every principle of justice or
of humanity. But they positively interdicted the
free labourer of the United Kingdom from growing
tobacco. For two centuries they had had upon their
statute-book an Act which provided that if any tobacco
was grown in England, except for garden purposes, it
might be destroyed. This applied only to England..
At one time- Ireland commenced the cultivation of
tobacco, and it opened an important labour market to
the population of that country. At length, however,
the English Legislature took alarm at this bold and
energetic step, and they immediately and positively in-
terdicted the Irish freemen from growing the plant.
Now he conceived this etas an exceedingly fair test of
the principles entertained by lion. Gentlemen opposite.
It enabled them to ascent-tie to what degree they in-
tended to carry their consistency, which had been so
eulogistically spoken of by the Right • Hon. Gentleman
the Secretary of the Board of Trade. It he were to ask
if they were prepared to give this restriction up,
he was confident the Right Hon. Gentleman the First
Lord of the Treasury, and the Right lion. Gentleman
the late President of the Board of Trade, would in-
stantly answer, " No, certainly Not." And why not ?
Why, because it would injure the revenue. The tobacco
which was imported from abroad they knew was grown
by slaves, but they knew also that the Custom-house,
who were the people to go by, derived a duty from, this
source to the amount of 600/. per cent., and in some
cases 1,200/. per cent. If, however, this tobacco were
grown by Englishmen or Irishmen it would lead to the
greatest difficulty, and for this reason they would not
submit to the loss in the revenue; and for this reason also
they gave the monopoly in tobacco to slave owners. If
this were right, if this were the moral obligation which
Hon. Gentlemen opposite thought paramount to all
fiscal or commercial considerations, what feasible oljec-.
tion could there be to the proposal made by his lion.
Friend. To be sure it might be said, and he admitted it,
they found these things existing when they came into
office, but still, if they maintained consistency, these
statutes ought to be put down. But this could not be
a just and honourable objection, for what was the Right
Ilon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury about
to do ? Why, he proposed to take away completely
the duty upon cotton. Now, did he not know
that this cotton was grown by slaves ?—(Hear,
hear.) Could he make out a case of consistency
after this ? Butit was said that cotton was not quite so
had as sugar. Cotton was less destructive to life than,
sugar. No country on the face of the earth produced
mere human misery in slavery than the republic of the
United States of America, and tin produce of that coot -
try the Right Hon. Baronet proposed to admit free of
duty. It was not the province of Members of Parliament
to discuss the affairs of other nations, nor could they ex-
pect that such a course could have any salutary effect;
but his constituency might ask why they should -take
the duty off American cotton in preference to Brazilian

sugar. The paper makers, the soap makers, contribu'ed
largely to swell the income-tax, and they naturally
asked why they were to be exempted from having
their share in the benefit to be derived fr )in
a surplus revenue. The answer was, Brazil 'maintains
the slave trade. He (Mr. Mace.uley) said that in the
United States the slave trade was more odious and de-
moralising than the traffic which was going on between
Africa and Brazil. In America there were two classes
of slavery. There were the breading States, where
human beings were reared up and supported until they
were able to be ar the fatigues of labour. Then there
were the sugar and cotton States, where the slave was
sent to end his days in toil. In the census of 1830 and
1840 they would see the fluctuation of human beirgs
which took place in these two descriptions of States. In
North Carolina and Virginia they would find an enor-
mous increase in the number of human beings. What
became of them ? If they looked to another par tof
the census they would ascertain. In Louisiana and
Alabama they would find a proportionate decrease
in the same period. Now, any Englishmen who
had travelled in the United States must be aware
of the humid state of tl.e climate of the places
he had just named. Was any description of slavery more
horrifying than the traffic which was carried on be twee n
Africa and the Brazils, where they saw human beings
driven, in bands of three and four hundred, from one
State to another, in the same way that they drove oxen
in this country to Smithfield. God forbid that heshould
say one word in a xtenuation of any form of slavery, but
this, he must say, was more horrib'e than the other.
How a Christian could lrirg up 500 or 600 human
beings till the age of maturity, and then send them to
labour, which generally terminates their existence in five
or six years, was to him most surprising. There was
something in it that surpassed the acme trade on the
coast of Africa. Brazil had given them the power to
exercise the right of search, but the Republic
of the United States stood out against the right
and threw every obstacle in the way to prevent a sup-
pression of the slave trade. The United States, re-
fusing to submit to this right, had virtually taken it
away; but not content with refusing to submit to the
right, they held them'elves out to other countries as the
fosterers and apostles of slavery. Could they wonder,
then, that any nation entertaining notions of-national
freedom and national pride, should say, " We do not
know why we should submit—other persons have re-
fused to do so, and why should we do so?" It was
all very well for Right lion. Gentlemen oprosite to talk
about maintaining the right of search, but under their
present system it was impossible they could carry it out.
They would even have Spain asking to be released.
'I he reason the right of search could not be maintained
was in cansequence of the conduct of the United States
of America, and for the slave trade going on between
Congo and Brazil, the United States were more answer-
able than any other power. America seemed to glory in
being the evil genius of this traffic, and they openly
avowed the it determination to encourage this state of so-
ciety.. Ile thought he had made out a case that the re-
public of tho United States had acted, and were acting,
in a manner most culpable, and to them ought to be
ascribed the evil ari'ing out of the African slave trade.
On those grounds. then, he would say he thought he had
made out clearly this fact, that of all the countries in
which the slave trade was carried on, the United States
stood alone as most determined to resist the right of
search, and as preset ting every manner of facility for the
continuance of the slave trade to a much greater extent
than that between Brazil and the Coast of Africa.--
(Hear, hear.) But was it because the United - States
had this facility in the slave trade that they would treat
slaves more leniently ? or was it to be supposed that this
was a reason why those jobbers in black flesh would not
become more numerous than ever ?—(Hear, hear )
It had been said that this right of search would be a
great boon, and one which all who detested the slave trade
should applaud ; but he is ould confi ss be was utterly at a
loss to understand how the Right Hon. Gentleman
oFposite could reconcile it with his conscience to encou-
rage slavery in one part of the world, and lend his aid
to a partial suppression of it in another, and he would in-
deed be very curious to learn how he could do so,—
(Hear, hear.) There certainly was something like a
want of consistency here, fur while in the Budget it was
stated that the object which,above all others, the Govern-
ment were anxious to effect, namely, the suppression of
the slave trade—they in the same breath said, that
under existing circumstances they could not interfere
with that trade in the United States.—(liear, hear.)
It would be rather precipitate in him (Mr. Macaulay)
to have anticipated such a course by the Right Hon.
Gentleman ; but as he had adopted it he (Mr. Macau.
lay) felt bound to state his reasons for the vote he should
give in favour of his Noble Friend's motion.—(Hear,
hear.) In the abstract he fully admitted and recognised
the power and authority that moral obligation ought to
exercise; and if an opportunity offered ler doing a bene-
volent and kind act, to neglect that opportunity would
be highly blameable. There were sonic in the com-
munity ho would attempt to justify such a course ;
but at the same time people were not bound
to look after- the affairs of others to the
prejudice of the interests of their own families. If they
did act in this manner they would producs more misery
than happiness where they intended the latter—(Hear,
hear)---and therefore he would mite, d for it, on the
same principle, that a Prime Minister should not injure
the interests of his own country in order to b, nefit
those of others. lie would then say to tie Right lion.
Baronet, it would be better, to taterniA the amelioration
or removal, of a grievance that affixted the interests of
this country, than to attempt to deal with that which
did not. Ile would a-k lion. Gentlemen to look at the
factory system, and he would ask, would it rot be ab-
surd for the Prime Minister to propose that he should
undertake to supply a measure for the emanci-
pation of the serfs of Russia, and call upon the Emperor
of that vast country to undertake the correction of the
English factory abuses?—(Hear,. hear, and laughter.)
Now in taking this view of the subject, he begged to
assure the House he did not mean to el al in diffuse
argument or sophistry; on the contrary, he conceived
that this. was a common sense view of the question, and
he bad adopted it in order. to vindicate his principles
and state his reasons for the vote he should give.—
(Hear, ,hear.) When he first came; into Parliament he
found the slave trade going on in unmitigated force, and
he gave every aid in his power to bring about its.sup-
pression ; and the Right Hon. Baronet the Home
Secretary, knew very well that he (Mr. Macaulay)
resigned his office into the hands of Earl
Spencer when he felt himself bound to differ
from him on the slave apprenticeship project ; aid that,
too, at a time when office was as much acceptable to him
as it could be to any man.—(Hear, hear.) His resigna-
tion was not accepted ; but in the meantime the slave
trade had been very much mitigated, and he was happy
to be able to say he lent his aid to removing the stigma
from England that the continuation of that -traffic in
human flesh placed upon it. He now came to the ques-
tion of the slave trade in Louisiana, and his opinion was
that it did stand in the same position as those of the
West Indies ; for the former were obliged to nork from
sunrise to sunset for the commonest necessaries of life.
They, too, had a right to be relieved, for all nations
were entitled to enjoy a state of comparative
freedom ; and he would be as anxious to lend his aid
for the amelioration of those grievances which Ireland
had to complain of, as for those of the slaves ; but at
the same time he should confess, that when he took up
a New York paper, and read the Speech of the Presi-
dent's son against the Government of this country, he
felt half inclined to retrace his steps.—(Hear, hear, and
a laugh.) The next point of the Right Hon. 13cronet's
policy upon this question, to which he would call atten-
tion, was in reference to the refining of sugar. But
here he would take the liberty of endeavouring to illus-
trate the course of the Right Hon. Baronet, by relating
an anecdote which he had read in a Spanish novel, called
Gil Blas." There was a character in that that put him
foroibly in mind of the Right Hon. Baronet's public
course. The character was an old silversmith, who
affected great piety, and the most scrupulous and austere
observance of all the forms of his religion. He wont to
mass every morning, and never missed a day, while he was
remarked as being continually counting over his beads.
—(Laughter.) This old man made it a habit to tell his
apprentice that of all human crimes there was not one
of which lie had so great a horror as the robbery of a
church, and that no inducement could he sufficiently
strong to make him become a purchaser of any articles
stolen from a church.—(llear, and laughter.) In a
very few days after having indulged in one of those
sermons to his apprentice, a very suspicious, ill-looking
fellow came into the shop and offered a silver crucifix
and other articles of church plate-for sale. The silver-
smith recoiled with horror, and said he would not buy
them. " Not buy them," said the man, " Well, then,
will you melt them down for me?" " Oh, that is quite
another thing," said the old 113811—(Great laughter)—so
lie took the precious relics between the points of a tongs
and melted them down ; and then,turning to his apprentice,
he asked him did he not observe how carefully he bad
avoided touching the relics—(Renewed laughter.)" Now,
he contended, that this was precisely the conduct of the
Right lion. Baronet, in reverence to the slave-trade ;
and he would contend for it that nothing could have a
more immoral tendency than such quibbling with so
vital a question.—(Hear.) He would ask, why seem to
admire the doctrines of Mr. Fowel Buxton, or Dr.
Lushington, and not practice them ? He did not mean
to accuse the Right Hon. Baronet of hypocrisy, :but he
would say, he could not but regret the influence his
course would have on the public mind,—(Hear, hear.)
When he remembered the strnggle that had been made
in that House for the emancipation of the slaves, he si as
indeed astonished how any of the Hon. Members oppo-
site could lend the weight of their influence and abilities
to favour the present system.—(Hear, hear.) When the
Bill was brought in for the emancipation of the slaves,
the Right lion. Baronet said he could not take any part
in it, and begged to be absolved from any
share in the responsibility of it. And in the year 1833,
the late Vice-President of the Board of Trade said that
the reason such a cry had been raised about the differ-
ence between the amount of labour necessary for pro-
ducing coffee and tobacco, as compared to that of sugar,
aros6 from the peculiar properties of the different soils,
and cunt( tided that the grinding labour in this country
was much worse.

Mr. GLADSTONE was understood to deny that he
ever had said any such thing.
Mr. MACAU LAY—Ile could refer the lion. Member
to the n port a his speech, and he would find he had
quoted him corn ctly. But, speaking of the horrors of
the slat-e trade, he could not help txpressivg his surprise
at observing the manner in which Hon. Alemberi oppo-
site moval from side to side, instead of sticking to the
West India question.—(Hear, hear.) Having now stated
his reasons fbr the vote he should give, he would con-
clude by declaring it would surprise him much if Hon.
Gentlemen opposite could reconcile their conduct with.
their professions.—(Loud cheers.)
Mr. GLADSTONE :,aid that the Right lion Gentle-
man had brought a severe charge against him—namely,
that be had used conflicting arguments at one time or
another, as they might happen to promote the West
Indian interest. During the whole of these discussions
he (Mr. Gladstone) had never, to his knowledg, said