Star.
London, England, 1830-02-24 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.

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Mr. BR( tUGHAM said he would take that opportunity of ask-
log a question of the right honourkble gentleman, the Secretary of
the Colonies. The right hon. gentleman would recollect, that in the
course of the last session he (Mi. Brougham) gave notice of a me.
Lion for leave to bring in a bill for the purpose of rendering slave
evidence admissible in the colonies ; but he was induatl to withdraw

that notice in consequence of a declaration made by the right hon.
gent. that it was the intention of government to introduce a gene-
ral measure for the improvement of the judicial administration in
all oar colonies, and that. amongst odic reforms, it would embrace
the admission of slave evidence. Now the question he wished to
ask was, whether it was the intention of the right hon. gentleman,
in the parr session, to redeem the pledge then given, and if so,
bow soon tha house alight eapm to hear what were the measures
which it was intended to introduce ?
Sic 0. MMULAY al* he recollected very well the circum-
assess to which the hon. and lased gentleman alluded, and the
answer he gave on the ocarina, which was as the honourable and
leased gentlemen had; stated. k was sal the intention of his

Lord JOHN RUSSELL a petition from Sheffield,
praying that the elective french might be conferred on the inha.
bitants of that town.
Mr. MARSHALL strongly supported the prayer of the petition,
and declared Sheffield well worthy of being allowed to return a re-
presentative to that house.
Mr. STUART WORTLEY, in obedience to the personal re.
quest of many most respectable persons, also expressed his opinion
in favour of the prayer of the petition. He would not then detain
the house on the question of Sheffield alone, as the whole discussion
was about to commence on the motion of the noble lord opposite,
but merely would say, that Sheffield bad as good a claim to send
representatives to parliament as either of the three towns which was
the subject of the noble lord's motion. It was a most ancient town,
and it was, besides, the chief seat of a manufacture almost peculiar
to this country—he meant the trade of cutlery.
The petition was brought up, read, and ordered to be printed.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved that the three orders of the day
of March 19, 1821, June 22. 1827, and 31st March, 1828, relative
to bills to transfer the elective franchise from boroughs convicted of
corruption, to Leeds, to Birmingham, and Manchester, should be en.
tered as read. This was done, and his lordship then addressed the
house as follows :—Although I feel not, Sir, the smallest doubt both
as to the justice and as to the expediency of the propositions which I
am this night about to submit to the house, yet I do feel • consider-
able degree of apprehension that these propositions may not meet
with that success which I should wish to see conferred upon
them by a majority of this house. lam aware that there are many
persons who are actuated by perfectly conscientious motives but who
have such a dread of reform, to which the old and accustomed epi-
thets of " wild and visionary," have often been attached, that they
view with suspicion any motion of which reform is the object.
To them I will only say, that if there was a proposition for reform
that was not wild and visionary, but that was practicable in its ob.
jest, practicable in the grounds on which it went, and practicable in
its results, It is that which I act about this night to propose to the
house. 1 likewise fear that some objections may be made to this
motion in the minds of those who are connected with the
landed interest of the country. lam aware that of late years there
has been a strong degree of suspicion and jealousy unwisely and
foolishly encouraged between the landed and the commercial in.
wrests. I hope that on this night, if not entirely laid aside, these
jealousies will be suspended, and that we shall come to the con-
sideration of this question neither with a view to the exclusive
advantage of the commercial or of the landed interest, but of
both ; the more especially at a time like this, of great public
distress, when it is more than ever expedient to unite, as much as
possible, persons representing every kind of property, and connected
with every kind of interest, in order to remedy the evils that now
oppress us, and to avert the dangers that may hereafter threaten the
country. I have, sir, likewise another apprehension that this moo
tion will be opposed,i as others of a similar kind have been, by the
influence of the government in this house. I confess I cannot but
think, that if some members of his majesty's government feel an ob.
jection to my motion, it would yet be wiser on the whole, if they
were not to array themselves as a body against a proposition of this
nature. It is a proposition that will tend to bring into this house
persons representing large classes of the population, and bearing a
large proportion of the public burdens. There is an old quotation
from Lord Bacon's works, which has often been heard within the
walls of this house on subjects of this kind, and in which it
is said that " time is a great innovator." If Lord Bacon
had lived to the present day, he might have changed his
maxim, and would have said " taxation is a great inno-
vator." Persons who bear great burdens are apt to look into them
to demand their causes, and to satisfy themselves that the govern.
went which imposes them is carried on with the strictest integrity, ,
and with a large and liberal purpose, which, perhaps, if they were
less heavily taxed, they would not think of requiring. The people
now look with more suspicion to the motives of this house than in
any former times. With this notice of the reasons that induce me
to bring it forward, I will now go to the motion I have to make, and
state its nature and extent. The motion Is for leave to bring in a
bill to enable the towns of Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds, to
send representatives to this house. Ido not intend that the repre.
sentatives thus sent shall form a permanent, but only a temporary,
addition to the number of members of this house. 1 intend to in-
sert a clause in the bill, by which, if any borough is hereafter
disfranchised on account of corrupt practices, the prerogative
vested in the Crown may be suspended till three boroughs have been
disfranchised, and the number of members in this house is reduced

to the same state as at present. Such, Sir, is a simple statement of
the Bill I mean to introduce. With regard to the amount of quail.
fication I shall propose that it should be somewhere between ten and
twenty pounds a year, and I would not allow non-resident voters to
exercise their franchise at the election. I should recommend this
in order that elections may be as short as possible, and that the else.
dons of members for these towns may be in contrast rather than in
confirmation to the established practices of bribery and corruption that
prevail so much elsewhere. The grounds on which I propose this bill
are not very difficult for the house to understand. (Hear.) It is per-
fectly acknowledged that it was an admitted principle of the con-
stitution in former times that when there were any towns which did
not send representatives to parliament. and which were yet entitled
to do so on account of the property they possessed and the interest
they represented, parliament interfered, and by several acts eon.
heted the right on these particular places, in order (as it was said
with respect to Durham) to represent the condition of their county
to Parliament. It is, therefore, evident with respect to places
totally unrepresented, parliament has allowed the creation of new
elective franchises whenever these places have been in a condition
to cal/ for such an ace. But there is another point to which I
wish to call the attention of the hots*: and that is, that the bah
of which I required the entries to be read have, Ind' ast
mined the declaration to be true—that Manchester, sod
Birmingham, are not sufficiently represented in this house;
that it is desirable. whenever a vacancy shall incur, to give reproseatatires to these places. I have, therefore, established two poiata,•
The one is, that what counties and places have been totally um&
'mewed, is Is In our power, and it is our duty, to give them rept-
sentatives t the other. that in case of those places being disfrattoldsed.
the Rouse of Coalman* has already decided these towns bars a
good right to be regreaeoted ; and that when any vacancy happens,
it ought to be given to one of them. It will, therein', be seen .

tinned to MI tin beim _ the chirtee 1., the
Bak at Mgland ought at: ought not to be renewed ? Having laid

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ADO

6......7 F.."".• v• •
terem •••••••'.. r•-r--, 1 -- -- -- system,
—swear, gleans au non. men mow mm ken. w. =ant ma valor." Persons who bear great burdens are apt to hat into them le' ed by the boded interest ;
said that he could disprove the statements which had been tnade on to demand their causes, and to satisfy themselves that the govern- therefore they at least can Pori
but manufacturing intaests
never be said to hold their seats as the representatives of any menu- was to a certain extent represented,
~.cout
the
populations
this subject. What were those statements ? That the duties had inent which imposes them is carried on with the strictest integrity, et y: The landed interest, acteirding to the present
fee interest and are independent of any such. &sides they were scarcely fermented et all.
," run districts,
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risen and prices had fallen. Could his hot►. friend disprove that? He and with a large and liberal purpose, which, perhaps, if they were
was sorry to hear this taken up as a colonial 'abject, for it was not less heavily taxed, they would not think of requiring. The peole Mt not very
oace a gentleman becomes a county member, he generally remains toetion of the community, had no rePressomu
'ves in this house•
a colonial, but a national subject—(Hear, hear.) He had urged now look with more suspicion to the motives of this house than-in so foe better s stem of
dependent even upon those who do return them. When of which ware int nein, and which contemn the most tntewee•
present bill being to obtain • y
that the shutting out of East India sugar was an injury to the any former times. With this notice of the reasons that induce meparliaments ; and even though he be not able to attend Ten: object of the
his duties manyea, be does not in consequence lose his sate ar we have
country and no benefit to the West India bode; and so it was to bring it forward, I will now go to the motion I have to make, and semis:lapis in the case of the member for Lancashire. But suppose Lord SANDON next addressed the house, but, standing
the
Let both sugars come in, and let the duties be reduced to an ad state ►ts nature and extent. The motion is for leas to bring in • representation for those distsicts he would support it in all
nits stages
the county manila had the fullest inclination to do all in his power the gallery, and directing his voice towards the.speaker chair,
th:e
saran rate; and with this system be would have both trades as bill to enable the towns of Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds, to
free as possible, and let the colonists have the power of sending send representatives to this house. Ido not intend that the repre. for the manufacturing interests of the place he represented, how noble lord was utterly inaudible in the reporter's gallery. A
could be, and be alone, do all that might be required for his landed conclusion he moved the following amerdmat
their produce to any port they pleased. Our absurd regulations sentatives thus sent shall form a permanent, but only a temporary,
constituents, and at the same time attend to the numerous and •~ IflrstThat it is expedient that all boroughs tilt shall have
to
in this respect tended to impoverish, instead of enriching, our addition to the number of members of this house. I intend to in. cease plea innate of • large manufacturing and commercial been proved guilty of gross and notorious corruption shall
colonists. sat a clause in the bill, by which, if any borough is hereafter community ? In
Mr. HUSKISSON, said, he would not now touch upon the se- disfranchised on account of corrupt practices, the craned from bet-
s- - -0- -ve arenever able to attend to both ; and what is the consequence ?_ " Second—That' the right of returning members Laken
to
practise tt is seen that the county members exercise the right of returning members to this house.
vent important topic" connected with this question,because a mote fit vested in the Crown may be suspended till three boroughs have been that when an
y great question Is likely to come before the legislature roughs in which bribery and corruption shalt have been proved •
opportunity would occur for going into it, and because another im- disfranchised, and the number of members in this house is reduced materially affecting their inttmests, or when they desire to bring for- prevail be given to some of the unrepresented manufacturing towns
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portant subject was then' bout to be brought before. the house. As a to the same state as at present. Such, Sir, is a simple statement of
member for a town deeply interested in the condition of our West the Bill I mean to introduce. With regard to the amount of quail. ward anything of themselves, instead of maki known though their or large counties."
re tittles' in this house—the natural, I titan and censtitu- Lord Moarzen seconded the amendment. .
India colonies, be must state that the question was one which ought ecation I shall propose that it should be somewhere between ten and
to attract the serious attention of government, for the claims of those twenty pounds a year, and I would not allow non-resident voters to t mode ofcommunicating with the logic tute—a body of del:- The original motion and the amendment having ban read by the
ea are appointed, who come up to town and have interview. with speaker, on the question being put, '
colonies on its consideration were very strong. Among the many exercise their ftanchiie at the election. I should recommend this amendmrnr of the t.
classes in the community which felt the pressure of the general dis- in order that elections may be as short as possible, and that the else- all
and cottony and iron wades, and efforts are made to make those nil- noble lord who had just sat down, no less than to the motion of the
trees there were none who suffered more severely than those who tions of members for theft towns may be in contrast rather than in
_We
were embarked in the colonial trade. confirmation to the established practices of bribery and coeruption that I comprehend the interests of thoseand bring forwardnoble lord (1 rd John Russell) opposite ; and for the ante reason.
cparuse,
.eat s ministers ; and ennferenme are held upon the stool, Mr. HORACE 'MISS war opposed to the attendee
The Marquis of CIIANDOS said that he nod no intention of prevail so much elsewhere. The grounds on which I propose this bill th measures in parliament which the Interests or tights of the, that both pledged the house to a general princirle of titan)), e il-
taking ministers unawares on this question. So far tram it, he would era not very difficult for the house to understand. (Hear. It is per. appli ts squired. Haw infinitely better then that the people out a previous case of necessity having been established. couldl.l.e,r
of those districts should be !arty and constitutionally represented not with the noble lord (lead John Russell) that erh • the
say tbat the subject was before them for the last four months. he'll acknowledged that It toes ea admitted principle of the con' in this house; that Birmi m, Leeds, and Manchester, should articles of union with Scotland or Ireland afforded any Pretext we
The petition was then brought up and read. stitution in former times that when there were any towns which did
On the question-that it do lie on the table, not send representatives to parliament, and which were yet entitled return members capable of advocating their interests, and explaining interfering with our present system of legislation.. With. respect
at to.
their views. A due represeatatiou or those districts would also be Ireland, the noble lord was lnerror. or rather, his interenc.•t pd
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN TUE COLONIES. to do so on account of the property they possessed and the interest
Mr. Blti rUGHAM said he would take that opportunity of ask- they represented, parliament interfered, and by several acts con.
log a question of the right honourithie gentleman, the Secretary of fared the right on these particular places, in order (as it was said attended with this beneficial effect, that it would prevent the aliens- plied to England, were not borne out by fleet Till a recent period ttt
..1.1 den of the pulite mind of those districts from the House of Can: Catholics. a the noble lord well knew, were not :n possession of the
the Colonies. The right bon. gentleman would recollect, that in the with respect to Durham) to represent the condition of their county men'-it might be expected to excite a feeling a eon- elective franchise, and till a period still mete recent, though they
• and mks Ikea ds tomes of difficulty and distress look to hail been put into possession of the right of election, they were
coulee of the last sees= he (Mi. Brougham) gave notice of a utto- to Parliament. It is, therefore, evident with respect to places she elm and esuberadose of parliament, rather than legally ineligible to b: elected. The case was different as t° Eng.
Lion for leave to bring in a bill for the purpose of rendering slave totally unrepresented, parliament has allowed the creation of new m aw„rif ebilk own- Even in the t session ls.;d• lie was rather surprised evidence
ambleadmissi in the colonies ;but he was inducsd to withdraw elective franchises whenever those places have been in a condition likei7 trelegnme 1 to cane on in whist, wading end forward with a t measure of reform like that which he had lust
that nodes quence of a declration made by the right MN to cal/ for such an act. But there is another point so which I „.. Pm
made mail est.
MOO are inteseeted....the charter of the suntans to the house, that he had not previously
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when he heard the noble lord cane
gent. that it was the intention of government to introduce
. a gene- wish to call the attention of the hoe* ;and that is, that the bilis =cooopeur e gpiet ilismpia. coal 4 '
question like to the satisfaction of the boom, some particular grievance_ t Mc
of which I required the entries to be read have, in fact, ett deo ko gem* a wire* decided, without Ti' existing conthutional system of representation which would justify
ral measure for the improvemeut of the judicial administration in
all our colonies, and that. amongst other reforms, it would embrace mined the declaration to be trus—that Manchester, Leeds, and bung to.thn Vatic obi* tits repreentatiees of treks awns a measure of reform. it was true, that it was ftoeuendY asserted
the admission of slaw evidence. Now the question be wished to Birmingham, are not be
•fereseeted in this house •i gaiiaws eimusise. my*, mod whin* aseweispeso *ace feelings by boonrable members, that that house did not Moment the
of the
ask was, whether it was the lanolin of the right hoar gentlentans that it is desirable. whenever a vicaref shall neur, to glee ropro- 01 we awes* limonta,o,o are the le", wpm p How pop', of Wand. Li, by duly tenoned'', the male be the
in the prang 'mins to redeem the pledge then given, and if so, eemaiiree to these places. I have, therefore, established two poista.• mum ike,oomehm isf she ogle erith Italie god phis Chas be in, people of Endlsod it was meant that that bates should
bow non the house alight sap -. to hear what were the measures The one is, that wine CONIMMA and piscaa hays been totally taus Ty'alowi'w—T—eled Thug' duos aide ? Theo cast• dm banking mere index of the fluctuating opinions et chant people— opinionseso.
*ilia it was intended to in sea ? preeemed, it Is in our power, and it is our duty, to give them rept-
oe. Who so St to be 00 en* XilesiooP alibi repte- necessarily tersporary, as being at one time constant upon pai iti
Sir (). MUIdAY said, he recollected Tag well the circum' sentatiees =tie other, that in caner those places bangdisfranchien, imbibes of Leeds, of set I Who so distress, at engine tune oseestend by atoosoue views at their
Itaiseellansoer ti:wgoliaelta ootheZt___--..t.and limaird,
111,11igalwasticulaulli 11`—allhOaudeoduktill: saddl tgbosoditgacht of
to heCTerceseaaman._A.kaa; alreadye.a., decided any shear
eacainarlay
nappreja_r_i_aa. wined to sista the bettetTln lag w the china of the own interest—he, for one, would admit Oat the assereion was
learned genders= had; Stated. it was still the Intention of his it ought to be given to one of them. It •ill, therein', be lan .Lk of England ought or ought not to be renewed ? Having laid well founded ;he would go farther, and goateed that it was UM
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