The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-28 00:00:00

RAILWAYS,

The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented a petition from
Sir Percival Banks, Bart., praying for the interference of
their Lordshii.s to prevent a projected railway from passing
near his property in Kent. While he was on the subject of
railways he would ask the Noble Lord when he intended to
bring forward the resolutions which he had on the minutes of
the House respecting railways?
soonL asord BROUGHAM was anxious to bring them forward as
possible. lie hoped to be able to do so on Monday
next.

After a few words from the Earls of Wicklow and Devon,
and Lords Redesdale and Camoys, the Noble Lord ultimately
arranged to bring them forward on Thursday next.
TURNPIKE TOLLS.
The Duke of RICHMOND moved the third reading of
this Bill.
The Earl of ROSEBERRY moved as an amendment, that
the operation of the Bill be postponed till the 3d of April, 1847.
After a short discussion, the amendment was withdrawn, and
the Bill was passed.
DRAINAGE OF ENTAILED ESTATES.
The Duke of RICHMOND laid upon their Lordships'
table the report of the Select Committee appointed to inquire
into the necessity for charging entailed estates fer the pur-
pose of drainage, and moved that it be printed. 'I he Noble
Duke also introduced a Bill for carrying out the recommenda-
tion of the Committee, which was read a first time, and or-
dered to be read a second time that day week.
ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS CONSOLIDATION
BILL.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY brought up the report of the
Select Committee to whom this Bill had been referred.
The Bishop of LONDON, as one of the Committee, begged
to be understood, that he neither approved of either the prin-
ciple or the details of the Bill. He had very considerable
doubts as to the expediency of the measure.
Lord COTTEN HAM said the principle of the Bill had not
only been approved of by both Houses of Parliament, but by
Royal Commissions, which had been instituted on the subject;
the Select Committee en the Bill and others were unanimous
in its favour. Ile did not say that some persons would not be
injured by the Bill, but that was generally the case where im-
provements were adopted. The jurisdiction of the Ecclesiasti-
cal Courts with respect to marriages would remain the same,
no new principle was sought to he introduced. It should be
borne in mind that the law at the present moment gave many
lay officers the power of solemnizing marriages.
The Bishop of SALISBURY considered that if the remu-
neration of their officers were taken away, as it would be in a
great measure by the Bill, they would as a matter of course
have very inefficient officers. It was understood that
no measure affecting the Ecclesiastical Courts would
be introduced during de present session, and the Secre-
tary of State for the Home Department, on whom he
had waited on the subject, had so informed him. He went on
his visitation on that understanding, and the first he heard of
this Bill was through a newspaper ; and since that period the
Government had pressed on the measure with great haste
during the present session. He was of opinion that the powers
which it gave should be in the hands of the responsible advisers
of the Crown. He agreed in the opinions which the Right
Rev. Prelate had expressed.
Lord BROUGHAM said the measure was not a Govern-
ment one, as it was brought in by his Noble and Learned
Friend (Lord Cottenham).
The Bishop of LONDON said, in explanation, that the
measure would take away a great part of their jurisdiction, and
affected the Church of England to so great an extent, that no
Government, or any person, would have ventured, a short
time back, to introduce a measure having similar objects in
view. There was an understanding with the last Government
that no measure of a similar character to the one before their
Lordships should be introduced without the consent of the
Bishops. This measure ought to have been a Government one.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he brought in a Bill of
a more modified character than the one before them, which
was ultimately abandoned when the present measure was
brought in, he found it so analogous to the Bill he had intro-
duced that he could not have consistently refused it his support.
The Bishop of SALISBURY explained that he attended a
meeting of the prelates in Lambeth Palace on Ash Wednes-
day, 1842, respecting a Bill which had for its object the regu
lation of these courts.

.ord BROUGHAM- said that, the Lord Chancellor did no
engage to support every clause in the Bill which had been in.

troduced by^ his Noble Friend. He merely supported the
pi inciple.
TtiLt Bishop of LONDON thought that a Bill of such
pertance ought not to have been brought in unless by the
Government, and after a consultation with the bishops.
Lord CAMPBELL said, that the present Bill was exactly
similar to the 0112 which the Right Rev. Prelate (the Bishop of
London), as one of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, had re-
commended. He therefore thought that he had no ground
whatever for complaint.
The Bishop of LONDON said, that a person could not be
in that House for nineteen years without undergoing some
modification of his opinions. He thought, if he had an oppor.
tunity of telling their Lordships a story, he would be able to
account for the inconsistencies with which the bench of
bishops were charged in reference to that question. The
report was then received.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE then moved that the Commons'
amendments on the " Scottish Railway Clauses Consolidation "
Bill be taker, into consideration on Monday next.
Several Bilis were forwarded a stage, and their Lordships
adjourned at a quarter past seven o'clock.

3r.,u5E or COIiIIIONS. June 27.
The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four o'clock.

DARTMOUTH—NEW WRIT.
A new writ was ordered for the borough of Dartmouth, in
the room of .11r. Somes, deceased.
WHITBY AND PICKERING RAILWAY.
The Lords' amendments to the Whitby and Pickering Rail-
way Bill were agreed to.

- YORK AND NORTH MIDLAND RAILWAY.
The Lords' amendments to the York and North Midland
(Bridlington Branch) Railway Bill were agreed to.
BELFAST IMPROVENIENT BILL.
On the motion of Mr. EMERSON TENNENT, the
Belfast Improvement Bill was read a third time and passtd.
GREAT WESTERN (IRELAND) RAILWAY.
Mr. CLIVE brought up the report on the Irish Great West-
ern (Dublin and Galway) Railway Bill, which was agreed to.
The Rochdale Vicarage (Molesworth's Estate) Bill was
read a second time, and ordered to he committed.
LIVERPOOL AND MANCHESTER RAILWAY.
The Liverpool and Manchester Railway Bill was read a
third time and passed.
NORTH UNION AND RIBI3LE RAILWAY.
The North Union and Ribble Navigation Branch Railway
Bill was read a third time and passed.
The St. Helen's Improvement Bill was read a third time and
passed.
Heaviside's Divorce Bill was read a first, and ordered to be
read a second time en Monday.
GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY (IRELAND)
The Great Western Railway (Ireland) (Dublin to Mullingar
and Athlone) Bill, was read a third time and passed.
RUNCORN-AND • PRESTON -BROOK RAILWAY.
On the motion tl at the report be received on the Runcorn
and Preston Brook Railway and Docks Bill,
Mr. V. SMITH objected to the Bill, on the ground that it

, - information, derived little or no
,Jr. S. O'BRIEN, according to notice, put a question to emolument from i,ained all the
t. e editor was r. Kell, insec of
the Right Hon. the Secretary of Sta.e for the Home Depart.. letters, who stated in all his prefaces,M except the p
last one,tor that
ment, as to whether it is the intention of the Government to he was enabled, by the favour of the Postmaster-General, to
bring forward, with a view to their enactment during the pre- avail himself of peculiar resources, so as to render the
sent session, any of the measures recommended by the Irish work the most complete of the kind in existence.
Land Commissioners ; and if any, what measures will he so Now, he wanted to know whether the " Post-office Directory"
brought under the consideration of Parliament ? was an official or non-official work ? Was it a private or a
Sir J. GRAHAM said that a second Bill was in prepara_ public speculation ? If it was a private speculation, he wanted
lion. His Hon. and Learned Friend the Solicitor-General to know what right any person had to employ the servants of
had been in communication with the Earl of Devon upon the the Crown in a private specuiatien ? If the work was a public
subject of the Bill, which would at an early period be intro- work, and belonged to the public, it ought not to be made the
doted in the other House of Parliament. subject of private speculation and gain. Mr. Kelly, in his evi-
NEW SOUTH WALES. dunce, said that the work was carried on by a large private
Mr. SCOTT said, that he wished to put a question to capital, but was supported by official resources. Now, if it was
the Under-Secretary for the Colonies, whether it was the a private work and a private speculation, why should it be
intention of her Majesty's Government to introduce any supported by official resources ?In of 1,2001., the sum
measure with regard to the unsold lands in New South Wales ? realised by Mr. Kelly was nearly 8,00/. Was it riht that
Mr. HOPE said, that such was the intention, and the such an office should be held under those circumstancegs ? He
Secretary for the Colonies was in communication with persons wanted to know if it was right to the fair and honest trades-
in that country on the subject.
,r" Director y the
In answer to a question fron Mr. EWART, man ? For the large edition of the
chge wos. The letter-carriers, when they
Sir GEORGE CLERK said that the removal and not the goar round,as 3
if they dispose of any copies, are aln
from the insubordination of some of the pupils.
book
SIR VALENTINE BLAKE AND THE LAW OF The -
dismissal of one of the masters of the School of Design arose lowed ss. for each
copy. The tradesmen get a
allowance of 6s. ;
was thus charged 305., which, if left to the
ARREST.the price charged to them being 24s
public, might be supplied for 155., and then yield a large profit.
Sir VALENTINE BLAKE rose and said—Sir, seeing He would ask, was it proper for these men to go about from
jestyher Majesty's Ministers in their places, and seeing her Ma- place to place soliciting orders in the manner they were now
's Solicitor-General in his place, I will take the very great doing ?He would place the letter_carriers in a more inde-
liberty of putting a question, and thereby suggesting to the pendent position. He would lay down a scale of remuneration
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and all the Hon. and Learned for all those who were employed, founded on a graduated prin-
Gentlemen who took part in the debate last night, and who ciple, and of an efficient amount. He would propose that for
were present in this House—( Laughter)—that the proper the first 5 years, they should be paid 70/. ; from sto 10 years,
view of the question was not taken by this House or them. 80/. ; from 10 to 15 years, 90/. ;from 15 to 20 years, 00/. ;
The SPEAKER intimated that this was not putting a and from 20 to 30 years, 1101. This scale of remuneration he
question.
did not consider too much. At present the letter-carriers were
Sir V. BLAKE—The question I have to ask the Hon. and almost in a state of insubordination from being obliged to
Learned Gentleman is this : —supposing an Honourable Gen- leave copies of these books about. Besides, they were subject
tleman is sued to execution for a debt, and supposing he is to a penalty for hawking books. About 200 copies of the
arrested, what is the proper course then to be taken ? '' Directory" found their way to the Post-office, for which
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL—In answer to the question no doubt Mr. Kelly was paid ; and those, as soon as done
put to me by the Hon. Gentleman, I think the proper course with at the end of the year, were sent back, when they were
would be to take a legal opinion.—( Cheers and laughter.) again made use of for the succeeding year, and
CAPTAIN BOLDER°, MR. BONHAM, AND THE sent out at half-price. If the work was a public work,
SOUTH-EASTERN RAILWAY COMPANY. why did not the profits go into the revenue, as in other in-
Mr. HAWES then rose, and referring to a petition which stances of publications under the sanction of the Government ?
he had presented from the South-EGitern Railway Company, If the work was not a üblic but a rivate one, why did Mr.
said he thought he would be best discharging his duty by Kelly issue such instrupctions to thep subordinates as that he
simply moving for the appointment of a Committee to inquire held in his hand. The Hon. Member here read several ex-
into the allegations of the petition. tracts from a printed list of instructions issued to the letter-
Captain BOLDERO—I think, Sir, that I can best carriers, in relation to matters connected with the
perform my duty by following the example of " Directory." Upon that order coming out, the men issued
the Honourable Gentleman, and merely second the a counter-document. This address called upon the men to
motion. At the same time, as great anxiety say whether the order to which he had just referred was
is felt both by my friend Mr. Bonham and myself, I may ex- made on anthorlty. Were they the servants of a bookseller
press a hope that the Committee will be of the mast searching or the servants of the Queen. Were they to be the slaves
character.—( Hear, hear.)
of m
After a few further remarks from Mr. H a awEs and Sir R. on theonopolist ? The address concluded by calling
PEEL the motion was agreed to. men to start a Post-office Directory
of their own. Now, was it not disgraceful that such docu-
'THE LAND COMMISSION. ments should have been posted up for one hour. There were
Mr. REMY GTON begged to protest against any measures abuses:existing in that establishment that required inquiry and
which might be introduced by the Government as being con- correction. He believed that they had only to be published
sidered by Members of the House as coming from the Land Com- to be immediately corrected. It was for the House to say
mission, unless they were eati ifieel from the perusal of the whether the Committee, which he intended to move for, should
report that such measures were really based on it. be granted or not, He did not blame either Lord Lonsdale
DECORATIONS OF THE HOUSES OF
PARLIAMENT. or Colonel Maberly for these unseemly practices. The corn-
On the order of the day for going into a Committee of Su plaints of the aggrieved never reached their ears, but stopped
ply being read, p- half way at Mr. Kelly. If, however, an inquiry were duly in-
Mr. ROEBUCK rose to put a question to the Noble Lord stituted, those high officers would, he believed, learn a state
of tsranny and oppression practised in the inferior depart-
at the head of the Woods and Forests (Lord Lincoln) respect- ment of which they were wholly unsuspicious. With a view,
ing the Fine Arts Commission. It was well understood therefore, to give them that information, and an opportunity
that an exhibition of frescoes was about to take place to redress the evil, he should conclude by moving the resolu-
for the purposes of art, and for the purpose of deciding which de- skin of which he had given notice,
signs were proper for the Houses of Parliament. He under- Captain PECHELL having had. unusual opportunities of
stood that her Majesty hail been down that day and inspected knowing the grievances existing in the Post-office, but moreh
them. He was also informed that Members of both Houses especially in reference to the transmission of mails to t e
would have the privilege of inspecting them. If there islands of Scilly, should support the appointment of the
lSelectto
was to be any distinction at all, it should be fur public Committee. The official returnsa.ed showed that theefomreals
purposes, and not to gratify any personal curiosity. Ihe Scilly had sometimes been
itetthinose ixmonths their_
islands, in consequence of
question he had to ask was, whether it was required that Mem- transmission and delivery i
hers of the House should ask the Secretary for tickets of ad- the gross neglect of Mr. Cressessh.eilelhythoewPmot-tootffihceehraadtaErrxaeatgeer: mission ? He had been there last year, and had been told that The mails run most irregularly,d
the Post-office.g One clay or unless he had a ticket of admission, signed by Mr. East- ments of the Treasury an
to issue with tht.y. an-
lake,Admi-
he could not be admitted, and that, as a Member other they must COTe
irregularities sanctioned by them.
of Parliament, he could not be admitted without a ticket. ralty for the gross
athe whole of the expense of the packets
wouldWha t hehe
admittedwi shed to
to
-morrow
ra
rs
0,
wwhether o
tAtlieemk
ebtesr,soor f
whether
transportm onth
of
thef th 0
sheamn
i Governmentisto
Scilly,
absolutelyao and
texpendedhe
pay o
fl,t3hle9pLiloin
t
restriction would be placed upon the admission of Members of was actually more t
Theyh
thought
alsot
proper, proposed
w h
ia
et oo
tsendhe r
Parliament?
The Earl of LINCOLN had not been able to attend any of those packets at suchn times
of far inferior importance, had mails
the recent meetings of the Commissioners of the Fine Arts, places, such as Stor a
thereaY' was this difficulty in accomplishing
and therefore was not able to give any precise information on every day. Then .
at ythe head of the affairs of the Duchy
by the previous arrangemenats.
striation should be placed upon the admission of Members of the illustrious Prince theyt
the subject. He knew that it had been intended that no re- this object, and especiall when they saw that the influence of
Hon. and Learned Gentleman, however, relative to the occur- a conclusion that t
removed ;and he trusted, therefore, that the
either House of Parliament. In what had fallen from the of Cornwall could nhoetrreemwoaysewimi,
curtaineheaegoeuolodynhoethihoedlptchoem
rences of last year, he was apprehensive the same difficulties which ought to be
aote_. ing
to
might arise. He would, however, take care to see the Secre- inquiry would be granted.
d
that before the question was formally
Lary of the Commission in the course of the evening, and the Mr. HUME said
a few words, as he had been the
Hon. and Learned Member might rest assured that there would put, he wished
be no impediment thrown in the way of the admission of Mem- person who
.hadto saymoved,
hers of Parliament to the exhibit i 41.
returns to which so mu
eh r
esfee
rveenne e yearsad haegeon, forma d e
.t
.....h e
fetoe!
in public offices had been inquired.. f . p
beAaldr.mlilltieldlll?E_a(sLkaeodgihfut,rh.e)families of Members would also ( Hear.) Several years agothe principlehtto,aod of
ortecaeoivienogd
qui .te sure that an inquiry into that estab-
OthLeNadsianidissitohnatofth:leHmobner.s aunpdooLepaorhnieido
office, easntdabhleishwmasent had been inquiret into except the Post-
Baronet would not object to the motion.
admission of their families. that the Right Hon.
gGreoTnuhtnledemsE,aabnrulatosflkieeLddlNiftrnot think that public grounds required the blishment would be eminently
.useful, and he trusted therefore
BROAD AND NARROW GAUGE.
Hon. Gentlemen opposite had but little communication with
Mr. BERNAL was anxious to take that opportunity of the City, and therefore they
Ney___ were
greater boon had ever beenere not aware of the evils which
doing justice to the sentiments of an eminent engineer, on the existed in the Post-
_ .
comparative merits of the broad and narrow gauge. He had conferred upon any
stated on a former occasion that Mr. Walker had stated that ; general penny-rate of country than the !eduction to the
postage, but the old apparatus was not.
gauge, and he thought an inference had been drawn that Mr. ' incurred .by the rule
he was in favour of the broad gauge and against the narrow I adapted to -thes.•neve porfinecaiprll;',daenhdvearyg.realtt ivin.acsonhvoetnireignirl•et
thata•as
Walker,however,would not same footing, for no advantageought, in his to be taken
narrow. The evidence of Mr.
Walker was in favour of substituting the broad gauge for the all establishments, great and s' mall, ought. to
opinion,be placed on the
bear out such an inference. The question put to that Gentle- •o fa public establishment

,tgi pi iction whim ;ad
done honour to Ireland, he meant the essay of Mr. Petre on
the round towers in Ireland ; and what was the conclusion to
which he came, and which he offered as a justification of his
work ? It was, that he was actuated by a desire to rescue the
antiquities of his native country from oblivion, and give them
their just place. He showed that in this country, day by day.
they were allowing the most important remains of earlier pe-
riods to perish, and that the most beautiful structures were de-
caying, and that their fragments were occasionally carried off
to erect other buildings. The Hon. Gentleman then alluded
to the attention that was paid in France to these matters—
where there was a commission formed for the purpose of pre-
serving ancient monuments, and for the investigation of politi-
cal and moral sciences, and of ancient beauty. The public mo-
numents likely to perish they had restored, and
they were copied by the most distinguished ar-
tists. They ordered that on every building of any
antiquity, there should be described the historical events con-
nected with it. There was now a spirit existing in France for
the protection of everything connected with ancient Chris-
tianity in that country. He did not state this merely for the
purpose of panegyrising France; the same spirit existed in
Germany. With such examples before thorn, were they not
called upon to re-establish the old spirit of Christianity, by
protecting its oldest emblems in this country ? Last session
he was assured by the Secretary for Ireland that the Govern-
ment were not adverse to the promotion of this object. He
now asked for a Commission to prevent further dilapidation.
The Hon. Gentleman then concluded by moving an address to
her Majesty, that she will be graciously pleased to give direc-
tions for the establishment and maintenance of a museum of
national antiquities, in conjunction with a Commission for the
conservation of national antiquities.
Mr. HAWES seconded the motion, considering some
means necessary for the preservation of works of art. On the
north-west coast of England many monuments of ancient talent
had, to his own knowledge been sacrilegiously destroyed, and
the most curious specimens actually broken up to pave the
public highways.
Mr. BERNAL suggested that the motion should be al-
tered, so as not only to include relics of art discovered in the
provinces of this country, but extend to all European nations.
't he province of Brittany in France presented the amplest op-
portunities of enriching our collections; and he could not
esmiseive how the genius of England could ever attain supre-
macy in that department, which he might call imaginative,
unless they were enabled to study the models so justly esteemed
as the masterpieces of the ancients.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (who from
the low tone in which he addressed the House, was almost in-
audible in the gallery) was understood to protest against the
discussion of such a question at that period of the session. Of
late years the artistic talent of this country bad been increas-
ing rapidly, and the taste of the public contemporaneously im-
proving, and he thought its growth would be rather ensured
by enterprise without than addresses within Parliament.
Mr. P. BORTHWICK regarded the question as one in-
volving not only the social elevation, but the religious feelings
of the country ; and could not concur with his Right Hon.
Ft lend the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the interference
and patronage of the State would be useless in the advance-
ment of taste. He urged the introduction of a Christian in-
stead of a pagan style of architecture and sculpture, and con-
cluded by expressing a hope that next session the Government
would entertain the motion.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. EWART complained that this was a third time that
the question bad been propounded, and a third time that it had
been met with an unsatisfactory opposition from the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer. The real object of the motion was,
to preserve the mouldering monuments of art in this country
from the ruin now almost inevitable, and it had been an-
swered that such relics needed no such care. Why, then,
were the Parian and Xanthian marbles guarded with such
anxiety ? Why should specimens of the ancients be preserved
with almost superstitious zeal, while the monuments of this
country's talent. were left to destruction or decay ? He was
satisfied that the motion had been appreciated by some Hon.
Members, whose opinion was entitled to respect, and he for
one should give it his zealous support.
The motion was then negatived without a division, and the
House went into a Committee of
SUPPLY.
Mr. WILLIAMS, on the vote of 223,0001. for the Ord-
nance estimates, objected, that the entire vote of this year had
amounted to `',287,0001., while in 1835 it was upwards of a
million less, and that thus the estimates had within
the last ten years been nearly doubled.—( Hear, hear. )
It was a well-known fact, that the household troops and foot-
guards did not perform the same duties as other regiments.
He had been told, that at one time as much interest was ne-
cessary to be made to get a captain's commission, in this par-
ticular regiment, as to get the command of other regiments.
The number of men in this horse brigade was 570 men and 46
officers, or at the rate of five officers for every three com-
panies; comparing those numbers with the number of officers
in the artillery, the difference was astounding. Then, again, 19
out of the 46 officers received extra pay for brevet rank ; while
in the artillery, out of 435 officers, the number who received such
pay was very few indeed. This corps might be of use in time
of war, but in time of peace it was of no service whatever.
But he need not follow up this line of argument ; but all he
would say was, that he did think those distinctions should be
done away with altogether. With these observations he would
detain the House no longer.
Captain BOLDER() defended the corps, and spoke in high
terms of their efficiency and usefulness, and stated the nature
of the different services in which some of the officers were at
present employed.
Sir H. DOUGLAS hoped the House would not listen to
the proposition of the lion. Member opposite, for he (Sir H.
Douglas) could, as an old artillery officer, speak of the efri-
eiency of this splendid corps. He then took a review of the
utility and achievements of the artillery services of different
continental nations, and then went through a history of the
1, feats of gallantry. daring, and usefulness of the British artil-
-1 lery during the continental campaigns, and denied that it would
be possible to get up such a branch of the service without
years of toil and scientific instruction, though the Hon. Mem-
ber opposite appeared to think that if it were disbanded it could
be easily raised again.

SITN, LONDON, SATURDAY 310HiNING JitTNTE 2M, I.

I was to enable an individual to make a railway, which he would man was, Yuppose no raihvays were constructed, and that we e Mr. CARDWELL said tl.at notwithstanding the perniasive The vo'e teas the i
.agreed to, PS were also the following
afterwards sell to the Grand Junction Company. were about to commence the-forma•ion of ra lw is's fir the first speech of the Hon. Member for Montrose, he could net accede sews :-208,573/., salaries for officers in the ordnance depart •
Mr. T. EGERTON believed that tl e c arse that was in• time, which gauge would you recommend ? To which Mr. tO the motion of the Hon. Member for Finsbury. With re- [tient ; 117,5504, wanes tor do. ; 213,246/, for the land and
1 tended to tßotbnewaselsorpid
ainththirisd etaimseehaanddbpeaesnseedf.ten adopted in the Walker replied, " the broad gauge eertain)y." This was very specs to the squabble which the Hon. ln had described sea service ;
89, 46 for the repairs of ordnance and bar-
After
of railway companies by individuals. different from recommending that the narr ov gauge should be as so contemptible, as to be only fore 51., the truth was that , rack-stores ; 89,1761. for the expenses of the Tosver• .
After some observations from Mr. Ricardo, Mr. Warburto 1, torn up in every locality and the broad gauge substituted in the Government
and Lord Sandon, the report was read, and the Rill was its stead.
orde ed to be engrossed.
POST-OFFICE ABUSES. ' mails to convey fit st-c'ass passengers at a certain rate of tea- i aod improving the fortifications at Portsmouth and other places.
, sortable charge, together with parcels for the inhabitants of i Captain BOLDER° explained, in reply to a question of Sir
BIRMINGHAM AND GLOUCESTER RAILWAY. On the motion that the order of the day be read for the the Scilly Isles, and for ships lying near them, and it was the 1 Howard Douglas, that the Government were building chapels
The Birmingham and Gloucester Railway (Gloucester Ex- House resolving itself into a Committee of Supply, J refusal of the owners of those vessels to grant this public con- iat Wcedon and other military stations, which expenses would
tension, Stoke Branch, and Midland Railway Junction) Bill Mr. T. DUNCOMBE rose, and moved, " That Returns, venience that had led to the dissolution of the connexion between Ibe incltoled in the vote.
was read a th rd time and passed.
The
ee Glossop Gas Bill was read a third time and passed.
THE NORTII OF ENGLAND RAILWAY. • No. 72 and 248, made by the General Post •office, be referred ; them and the Government. The Hon. Gentleman was cer- The vote was agreed to ;as also was a sum of 62,7531. for
to a Select Committee, with a view of inquiring into the accu- ' tautly mistaken in stating that there had been any sufficient the scientific branch of the Ordnance de art
racy of those returns; also into the present mode of remune- complaint made at the Post.offiee, for it was notorious In answer to a question from Sir H. DOUGLAS, as to the
The North of England (Clarence and Hartlepool Junction) rating by fees and perquisites certain officers of the General that the Noble Lord at the head of the Post-office, progress of the Government survey in Scotland,
Post-office, and how far the duties of that establishment may and the Secretary of that department, were perfectly Captain BOLDER() replied that 4,123 acres had been
Richmond (Surrey) Railway Bill was read a third time be rendered more satisfactory to the public, and less easy of act ess, and they had no interest whatever surveyed.
and passed.
unequal and oppressive to the persons engaged therein." in refusing to rectify the complaints. The system of fees had The sum of 123,083/. for the non-effective service of the
Captain BERKELEY then rose, pursuant to notice, to This motion had no reference whatever to the questions which been entirely put down, except in this instance of payments Ordnance was next voted.
call the attention of the House to the hardship and injustice of had recently been the subject of discussion in that House. for early delivery. No evil whatever resulted from these early The next item was a sum of 41,328/. for the half-pay allow-
fe'mitting the promoters of railway schemes, proposing to cross At the close of the last session of Parliament he moved for a deliveries. The system was this :—The letter-carriers sorted ance of officers of the Commissariat department, which was
Or interfere with any tidal rivers, arms of the sea, and creeks, return of every person connected with the Post-office, the date their letters which they took out for the general delivery, and agreed to.
over which the Board of Admiralty have control, appearing of his appointment, the nature of his office, the duties he his heap being diminished by those for the early delivery, which The sum of 112,116 L was then proposed to be voted for the
before Committees of this House on Private Bills, without performed, and the amount of salary he received. He subse- were always the most numerous, the others were much sooner care of public buildings and gardens, including furniture, &c.
havirik first obtained the written sanction of that Board, timely moved for a return relating to the letter-carrier's disposed of than they otherwise would be, so that on the whole Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the vote, as he considered it
according to the provision of the Act 8 Victoria,c. 2'). fund. These returns, after much delay and great difficulty, there was no loss of time to the public. With regard to the very extravagant.
Some remedy ought to be found for this evil. His object in had at last been laid on the table. He was not, however, amount of information which would be derived from inquiry, The Earl of LINCOLN defended the rote•
calling the attention of the House to this matter was, that some satisfied with them, and he was desirous that they should be the lion. and Gallant Member for Brighton (Capt. Peehell) Mr. BERNAL complained of the way in which the public
instructions should be given to Committees as to the construe_ referred to a Select Committee for the purpose of inquiring had sufficiently shown that the information was sufficiently full, money had been applied in the purchase of pictures. He men-
tion of bridges over tidal rivers. Any bridge must annihilate into their accuracy. He maintained that there was inaccuracy as was already shown by the returns on the table; so that, in tioned the fact of 600/. haeing been paid fur a picture for the
the navigation, and there oas now no resource but to apply to in those returns, which had not been made accidentally but fact, the very best argument against the inquiry had National Gallery, attributed to llolbein, the celebrated German
the Board of Admiralty for appearance; and opposition before a intentionally, with the view of deceiving the public as to their beer, furnished by the mover for the Commit- painter, but which, he believed, had no
title to be attributed to
Railway Committee would, it was well known, entail immense true nature. He considered that the payment by fees instead tee himself.—( Hear.) Then there was the "Post-office his
pencil.
expense. He would leave the remedy to Hon. Gentlemen op. of a fixed salary of public servants in the employment of the Directory," which the Hon. Member had described as a very Sir ROBERT PEEL explained that pictures bought for
posite, but some course should be taken which would put a Crown was a most improper system, and one which would gross job. Now what were the circumstances of the case? the National Gallery were pictures of the highest repute. Still
stop to those needless expenses. He then concluded by mot- lead to great inconvenience and distrust, and in many This ,‘ Directory " was necessary for the public convenience, he was willing to admit that some few might be of a doubtful
ing that the question be referred to the Committee on Standing instances to cases of gross corruption, since he believed and the only parties 'who could obtain the information which character, and had better not be there. The inferior Pictures
Orders.
that there was no public department, with the exception of the would render it of utility were the letter-carriers. It had been to which he referred had generally been bequests by private in-
Mr. HUME said this was a question, of the greatest im- Post-office, from which the system had not been repudiated. otiginally projected by a person of the name of Sparkes. dividuals. The trustees had lately come to the resolution not
ject.Portance, and there ought to be some de?,ided rule on the sub- With respest to the payment of fees to the letter-carriers, there After conducting it for some time he was succeeded by Mr. to refuse any bequests, but with the understanding that such
—( Hear, hear.) What he wished was, that whenever the was not a single railway company who were not in the habit of Pritchard, and after him carne Mr. Kelly. Now Mr. Kelly pictures as they did not think proper to hang on the walls of
Admiralty had decided against any bridge, parties opposing the feeing the servants of the Post-office. He should like to know had originally been connected with the Post-office, and had the institution should be in the hands of the trustees, to lie
railway should not be compelled to do so before the Committee en what principle the system of giving fees to the servants of given a considerable sum for his appointment, and the privilege presented to any provincial town they might think fit,
at great expense. In this case a tunnel under the river was the Crown was upheld p He would draw the attention of the of publishing the " Directory." He had invested a lsrge sum that had a gallery ; the desire of the Government
intended, but of such a conoruction as would impede the int- House, in a few tniuutes, to the manner in which certain duties of money in this publication, and had, as the Honourable being to create a taste among the public for the
provement of that river. The decision of the Admiralty ought of the Post-office were performed—namely, to the mode in Gentleman allowed, very greatly improved it. The re- fine arts lie admitted there had been a picture which was
to be recorded in that House, so that there might be no need which the early delivery of letters in the City was conducted. turns for this publication were certainly considerable, attributed to a German artist, and painted three hundred
for further interference on the part of private individuals. There were certain districts marked out by the Post-Master- but they were the fair reward of a heavy mercantile years ago, purchased for 6001 ;and though it was difficult to
Sir G. GREY said the question was one of considerable general for the early delivery of letters, and he was ready to speculation, and to which the proprietor was fully entitled. decide whether a picture of such an age was a genuine produe-
importance, and he wished to call the attention of the House prove that this was the grossest fraud upon the merchant and This was the whole evidence of the job which could be ad- tion, there were some grounds for supposing that the picture
to the report of the Glasgow Junction Railway, in which a tradesmen that could be possibly conceived. This practice diced, and he must contend that in the right sense of the word was the work of Holbein. Still it was possible the trustees
similar course was pursued, and a similar object had been de- had been complained of over and over again, by merchants the term job could never be rightly applied to this transactionn. might have been mistaken, and, rather than a counterfeit
signed. The Bight Hon. Gentleman quoted the report, en- and other parties, to the authorities of the Post-office, arid Having disposed of the two portions of the Hon. Gentleman's should be on the walls, they had withdrawn the picture. They
forcing the necessity of the Admiralty sending in a special recently a memorial had been submitted to Lord attack which, in his judgment, appeared the most important, were row considering about calling in the assistance and skill
decision, which would be recorded, and so obviate the necessity Lon:dale from the merchants and manufocturers of London. he would just advert to the effect which this motion, if carried, of the most eminent dealers in pictures and judges, to learn
for further interference. The petitioners complained of the unfair distribution of the would have. They would, after a tedious and unnecessary in- how far the pictures were worth the prices affixed, and with
Mr. FITZ ROY said he thought the course suggested would early delivery, and believed it would not be sanctioned by law. quiry, just attain that which they already possessed, and would the view or having nothing but works of the highest order of
mittee, where he thought the onus of stopping such a project P
interfere with the functions of the Standing Orders Corn- They also complained of the system of paying quarterage,eso the be further disturbing the %hole arrangements of a large and merit in the Gallery.
ostmen, which from some firms averaged, for highly important public establishment. From what the Hon. Mr. BERNAL had every confidenee in the good taste of the
should,
remain.
amounts to 17/. and 25/, per annum. He thought that some Gentleman had said, and from the paper he had read, it did Right Hon. Baronet, but he must say that he had seen the
Me. HUME said, respecting the bridge on the Glasgow attention ought to have been paid to this memorial, and that appear quite true, and he was ready to allow it, that there was nation lose good paintings for a small sum. Uths Right Hon.
Raiiway, the Admiralty had interfered, and effectually, to pre- some answer oukht to have been made to it, either by the su- some insubordination among the inferior officers of the Post- Baronet would walk down to Pall-mall, he would there flnd a
Mr. BERKELEY said there was no blame at all due to the
vent the construction of the bridge.
gperior cfficers of the Post-office, but it seemed as if it had alto- office, hut he could not ascribe it to the publication of the Di- picture of the King of Saxony—a real Holbein—which had
Admiralty from disinclination to interfere, as their capacity was ether been done away with. Some of those merchants lived rectory by Mr. Kelly, and he was quite sure that the proposed been purchased for a very small sum. It was now in the Bri-
three, four, and even five miles from the General Post-office, inquiry would not be at all instrumental in its diminution. fish Institution. There were three pictures there by the first
so limited.
and they received their letters earlier at their private resi- The discontent said to exist among them at the reduction of masters, which had been purchased at very small sums. He
Mr. FITZROY said there had been no consent given to the dences than they did at their offices in the City. One gentle. their salaries as they grew into years, was a rumour to which spoke comparatively.
project for the tunnel under the Severn. When it was pro- man, who lived on the other side of Blackfriars-bridge, received he would give no very ready or implicit credence. That re- Dr. BO WRING wished to ask what the Right Hon. Ba•
Posed they asked for the plans and sections, which had not yet his etters there earlier by half to three-quarters of an hour eduction originated in the choice of the easier walks, and was ronet meant by saying that a fit receptacle for paintings would
been inspected.
than he did at his shop in Fleet-street, although paid for made up for by other advantages. And with regard to any be
Sir. WARBURTON hoped that as the Board of Admiralty the early delivery there. The reason of this was hethat the complaints, the proper quarter to apply to was the office of the ance of the National Gallery, or did he mean to erect an in-
very desirable. Did he mean to alter the external appear-
were like others—fallible—that when they reported against letter deliverers in the outskirts were carried toward their Noble Lord at the head of the Post-office, or to the Secretor
such a bridge as that mentioned by the Gallant Officer, their walks by carts or omnibuses, and were thus forwarded, whilst of the establishment, by whom he was sure they would receive
3' stitution for works of art which would be worthy of the nation?
Mr. WARBURTON said all they had to do was to build a.
engineers should state the reasons for such opposition. the others, who had chiefly to supply the districts every attention. He should therefore feel it his duty to resist large gallery for the reception of great church piotsares, in the
Captain PLUMRIDGE said a few words, after which which were not favoured with the early deliveries, the inquiry.
Grandoise style—the grandest of all styles. He hoped the
ProjeSir G. CLERK said, the Railway Consolidation Act gave were left to sort what were called quarterlies and Dr. BOWRING thought that the Hon. Gentleman who Right Hon. Baronet would be prepared next year to re Admiralty the power of interfering, not only before the shams. These advantages,. he understood, were reserved had just sat down had not answered his Hon. Friend the mend the building of a great gallery for such a national exhi-
ct was commenced, but even when in course of operation ; for the older servants of the Post-office, and one of Member for Montrose, for he had not proved that there was not bition.
Sir R. PEEL said sometimes the disposition of the House
they might pull down any works which would in any the juniors had been dismissed because he refused to submit a difference made between the rich and the poor. He believed
way operate to the inconvenience or obstruction of to the oppression which he conceived he suffered from not en_ that the subordinates who could expose many abuses were was very economival, and sometimes very liberal.
Na most
the navigation of the tidal rivers. No parties of common sense, joying a portion of the benefit. Another objectionable prat- afraid to displease their superiors. And it was well known, magnificent site in the metropolis had been thrown away, as
knowing that this power lay with the Admiralty, would pro_ tine pursued in this office was, what was termed the " window that it was not the way to obtain favour in a public office to any one would see by standing on the steps of the National
teed with such works as that under consideration sinless they duty ;" a fee of some five or eight guineas paid by merchants point out abuses or to suggest remedies. Now that the Posit-
obtained the consent of the Admiralty. Therefore, he put it for obtaining an early delivery of their letters. Now, he office had become more popular than ever, it was time thayne Gallery.( Hear, hear.) He did not think much good could
to the Gallant Officer whether, under such circumstances, his wished to know whatright the Post-office department had to take distinction between the higher and humbler classes of society might done by laying out money on the exterior—they certainly
ght amend the cupola and improve the turrets, but after all
motion was not useless ? any money whatever beyond the one penny authorised by law, as is respect to accommodation ought to be done away with.
: the great thing was to have the galleries so constructed as that
Captain BERKELEY would withdraw his present proposi.. the uniform amount of postage; originally the fee was given as Mr. WILLIAMS, who rose amidst loud and continued cries the pictures might be properly lighted. The matter was
tion ; his object was to save the expense of private individuals a remuneration to the carrier, for the credit he gave on the of " Divide," supported the motion.
under the consideration of the Government, and he trusted
in opposing great railway companies, but would, on Monday, payment of letters, but since the change of system it was ren- Mr. F. BARING did not think it would be the most that before many years elapsed the country would be in pos-
bring forward a motion for the protection of private individuals dared unnecessary, all letters, exzept foreign,
an
pre-paid. desirable course to submit these arrangements of the Post- session of a ,oeallery worthy of the reception of works of at—
opposing such schemes. By the present practice, however, Rowland Hill's system was office to a Committee of the House. He thought it would be (Hear, hear)—and thus hold out an encouragement to those
NEWRY AND ENNISKILLEN RAILWAY. virtually annulled, and a door was opened to an eotensive range better that the Government should take the inquiry into its who might be desirous of presenting pictures for the national
The Newry and Enniskillen Railway Bill was then read a of fraud and deception. They would find in the return that own hands. With respect to the "Directory," he could not benefit.
third time and passed. the senior letter carriers, who were forty years in the esta- aeree in all that bad.been said; but he would admit that those Mr. HAWES said a few words, and
The Hawkins' Estate Bill was read a second time. blishment. only received 14s. a week from the Crown, and the :Imbed the labour of collecting the information should partici- Lord MAHON declared he entirely approved of the tug-
. EGERTON presented a petition from the College juniors received from 203. to 235. a week ; so that the longer a pate in the gains. Yet, if the suggestion were adopted that the gestion of the Right Hon. Baronet, and hoped it would be ear-
of Surgeons, against the Medical Relief Bill. man remained in the establishment the less the pay became. public should have the whole advantage, the work would not .
.
. SMALL DEBTS BILL. Unless he had power and capital sufficient, and friends who long cont:nue to be as valuable as it was now acknowledged
On the motion of Mr. F. KELLY this Bill was read a first would give security for him, he might be twenty or thirty years to be.—( Hear, hear.) reed
fitnetro eaxeccountvioenrs.ation,
in which Mr. Redington, Lord
Mahon, Mr. Ewart, and Sir R. Peel, took part, the vote was
agreed to.
time. We did not hear the date for which the second reading in the establishment, and instead of the pay being 30s. a week, Sir C. LESION supported the motion.—( The Hon. Baronet
was appointed.
it would be only 14s. a week. There was no provision what- spoke amidst loud cries of "Divide.")
On the motion of the Earl of LINCOLN, that 6,500/.
STATISTICS OF IRELAND. ever for sickness. He might become superannuated if the Post- Mr. CURTEIS (amidst similar,
interruption) said that he should be appropriated to the support of the botanical gardens
Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL, seeing the Chancellor of master-General thought fit, and if he did not the postman would vote with the Hon. Member for Finsbury, for he thought at Kew,
the Exchequer in his place, he would take the opportunity of would have only IU a week-65. less than he had before, it monstrous that he should be obliged to pay 20s. a quarter, or Mr. COLLETT objected that those gardens were of no
putting the questions which lie had intended, according to The Crown gave a salary of 26/. a year to many who received whatever it might be, in order to receive the communications national importance whatever, and he would especially wish to
notice, to put to the Right Hon. Gentleman, on the order of from 1001. to 1201. They threw every impediment in the of his constituents in reasonable time.
know of what use a farm-house would be to the country?
the day for going into the Committee of Supply—" Whether way of those merchants who did not submit to those taxes for The House then divided—
The Earl of LINCOLN said that these gardens had, up to
30
the Government will take into consideration the propriety of the early delivery. They caused the letters to come to them For Mr. Duncombe's motion
the end of 1841, been left in a state which was a disgrace to a
adding to the statement of the expenditure of the United as late as possiLle. He would read a statement which he knew Against it . lO6 country like this. The necessity for botanical gardens had
Kingdom, given in the finance accounts of each year, ato be true, showing that this practice led to demoralisation and Majorilyt
special statement of the local expenditure of Ireland; to acts of dishonesty and corruption. There was one instance NA lONAL ANTIQUITIES.
country in Europe botanical gardens had been cultivated as well
that is, of all disbursements out of the revenue of Ireland, of admitted by the witness himself which showed the system put. On the readmission of strangers, we found
as in India. With respect to the farm-house, it was at first
whatever nature they may be, and a statement of the balance re- sued. A gentleman, who was on the early list, told the pest- Dlr. WYSE moving an address to her Majesty, that she will erected for the purl ose of receiving the great aloe, which had
milted to England ? Also, whether the Government will take man that he did not require to have the early delivery any more, be graciou•iy pleased to give directions for the establishment been imported about a twelvemonth ago; but it was in reality
into consideration the propriety of establishing
.some means of " When the man told me this," said the witness, " I desired and maintenance of a museum of national antiquities in con- intended for every description of tropical plants. He would
registry, for statistical purposes, of the nature, quantity, official him to go through his walk as usual, and to deliver that gentle- junction with a commission for the conservation of national take that opportunity of congratulating the Irish Members on
and real values of all articles of traffic passing between Great man's letters last." Soon afterwards the gentleman said to antiquities. The Honourable Gentleman argued that it was the fact, that it was about to be erected by one of their coun-
Britain and Ireland; and thus supply a deficiency much com- the postman that he thought he would take the early delivery of small effect to endeavour to elevate the people to an appre- trymen. He had accidentally heard there was a man of great
plained of by the Irish Railway Commissioners of 1838, by Mr. again. The.man said, " I thought so, Sir ; I knew you would ciation of high art and elevated pursuits, if measures were not experience in Dublin, and he had allowed him to enter into
Porter in his ' Progress of the Nation,' and by others ern- find out the inconvenience."—( Hear, hear.) Now a hat a also taken to preserve those monuments and! collections by
played officially or otherwise, in inquiries relative to the static. fraud was this ?—( Hear, hear.) To keep back the letters of a which the learning, the refinement, and the history of past ages competition with an Englishman of great experience, and the
contract had been fairly won. It was being erected in a most
tics of the United Kingdom ?" merchant till the last to compel him to contribute those dis- were as mnch preserved as in books. He dwelt upon the defi- admirable and liberal manner.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that on graceful fees.—( Hear, hear.) It was a system which ought to cieney which existed at present for supplying that kind of in- The vote was then agreed to.
the first question he had only to say, that in the financial re. be done away with.—(Leud cries of " Hear, hear.") struction. A gentleman, of the name of Dann, applied On the motion that the sum of 8,395/. be appropriated for
turns annually laid before the Hou,e the information was given No one could wonder that the men complained, and that the to the Trustees of the British Museum, to appropriate the erection and improvement of thereomit-rooms of both
which the Hon. Gentleman wished to obtain, as the amount of public complained of it.—( Hear, hear. ) The men did not a place in the new building far the preservation of Houses of Parliament,
Irish finance was published in a separate form. It would he want those fees. They wanted to have adequate salaries accord- the remains of ancient English architecture, to which Mr. WILLIAMS expressed a desi to know when the new
very inconvenient to depart from that form. With respect to ing to the recomMendation of the Commissioners of Revenue the
trusttrutees replied, that they. could not provide any place Houses were likely to be fit for occupation ?
the other question, he would admit that the object desired by Inquiry. - The men ought to be paid on a graduated scale, for reservation of the remains of Gothic architecture. The Earl of LINCOLN said that the building certainly
the Hon. Gentleman would be of great value in a statistical proportioned to their services, and relieved from the necessity These were evils which were not merely of a general but of a could not be completed within the tome specified by the archi-
point of view ; but he did not think that the statistical value of going round from door to door, begging for what were called specific nature. They saw some of the most beautiful of the tent, but the House of Lords would be ready for occupation at
would compensate for the expense and inconvenience. " Christmas boxes."—( Hear, hear. Another great abuse specimens of Sir Christopher Wren allowed to hasten to decay, the commencement of the next session, without, however, its
After a few words from Mr. J. O'CONNELL in explana- was, the'manner in which that very able and useful work the and were obliged to be taken down and destroyed. Some Ho- decorations, which could not be prepared in time. The Hoe
ion, the conversation dropped. " Post-office Directory" was managed. The men, who did all nourable Gentlemen might have seen a producties Nhich lic
THE IRISH LAND COMMISSION. the work, and oat, -- - s • '•' - -

. .
of Commons would not be ready before the commencement of
the session after next. For the sake of the building, the archi-
tect, and the country, it was advisable that the work should not
be hurried, for when completed he believed that it would be
one of the finest buildings in Europe.
Mr. HAWES trusted that not one shilling would be ex-
pended in any temporary erections connected with the new
Houses of Parliament. He hoped, as improvements could not
be effected this session, that steps would be taken to give them
better accommodation during the next.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the sug-
gestion of the Hon. Member would be attended to.
Sir R. PEEL said those Members who had attended for
four or five hours a day on the Committees, had established a
strong claim to the gratitude of the House and of the country.
He could assure them that steps should be taken which would
conduce to their health and convenience.
After some conversation the vote was agreed to.
A vote of 85,000/. was proposed and agreed to towards con-
structing the new Houses of Parliament.
A vote of 14,000/. was proposed for altering and partially re-
building the Home-office and the Board of Trade.
Lord LINCOLN, in answer to questions with respect to the
plot of land immediately adjacent to the Treasury, said that as
yet the Woods and Forests had not come to a conclusion re-
speeting it.
Mr. \VAR BURTON hoped the grant was not to be ap-
plied for a temporary purpose.
Lord LINCOLN said the sum wood bo applied to im-
provements of a pemanent character.
The vote was agreed to, as were also-
-3,8361. for the Holyhead Harbour, and Shrewsbury-road.
50,000/. for the Caledonian Canal.
24,461/. for the Public Works of Ireland.
1,0001. for Kingston Harbour.
39,390/. for the officers of the two Houses of Parliament.
05,904. for the salaries of the Treasury Department.
17,420/ for the salaries of the officers of the Home-office.
21,000/. for the salaries of the officers of the Colonial-office.
39,000/. for the salaries of the officers of the Privy Council,
and Board of Trade.
2,000/. for the Privy Seal-office.
34,026/. for the Comptroller and Paymaster's-office.
15,919/. for the expenses of the Exchequer-office.
9,691/. for the expenses of the State Paper-office,
When 3,340/. for the expenses of the Ecclesiastical Commis-
sions of England was proposed,
Mr. WILLIAMS rose and objected to that vote. He said
he would take the sense of the House against it. He would
divide the House on any grant of money for the religious
education of Protestants or Roman Catholics, but he
had no objection to provide a merely secular education for all.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then made
a few observations in favour of the vote.
Dr. BOWRING said that the vote was really th's, that
public money should be taken not for public purposes. As it
was for the Church of England, it should be paid out of the
ecclesiastical funds.
Mr. REDINGTON thought that instead of taking the
money out of the public funds, they ought to spend all the
funds in the hands of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners,
After a few words from Mr. WILLIAMS,
The Committee divided, when there appeared--
For the vote
Against it
Majority for the vote —42
A vote of 13,400/. was next proposed to defray the salaries
of persons engaged in keeping the public record.t.
Mr. PROTHEROE observed on the absurdity of keeping
the public records in the roof of the House of Commons, and
inquired whether it was the intention of the Government to
appropriate a building for their preservation ?
The Earl of LINCOLN said that it had at one time been in
contemplation to erect a lo:incline. for the securing of the
public records, but the scheme had been abandoned as imprac-
ticable.
The sum was then voted.
A vote of 3,612/. was then proposed for the Jewel-office in
the Tower.
Mr. COLLETT objected.
The vote was agreed to.
A vote of 10,957/. was proposed to defray the expense of in-
spectors and sub-inspectors of factories.
The vote was agreed to.
A vote of 22,471/. was proposed to defray the expenses of
the Chief Secretary's Office in Ireland.--Agreed to.
A vote of 5,0181. was proposed to defray the expenses of the
civil service in Ireland.—Agreed to.
A vote of 7,063/. was proposed to defray the expenses of the
Board of Public Works in Ireland.--Agreed to.
A vote of 221,582/. was proposed for the printing and sta-
tionary in the Government offices in England.—Agreed to.
A vote of 4,550/. was proposed to defray the expenses of
printing, bith'ing, and stationary in Ireland.—Agreed to.
It was then moved that the Dog Stealing Bill lie brought
up.—Agreed to. '
SMOKE PROHIBITION BILL.
The report on the Smoke Prohibition Bill was postponed
until Monday.
Alderman COPELAND observed that when the Bill was
passed he must shut up his factory, and turn out of employment
1,000 people, and no manufacturer could then carry on his work.
He, therefore, requested its further postponement. The iron-
masters from South Staffordshire had arrived in town to-day,
and were in perfect consternation on the subject.
dent uari inquiry yt
of
bra etLf otlhrNei
this
this
jlNe3ciltlbwas t
begged
re oet
been
are
eldrienedai vdy
the
i t
Mr. JOHN PARKER trusted that there would be suffi-
o
cient
soendo ub re afohrl
before
Gentleman rrh e E
two Committees. With respect to the tronrrasters, the
Honourable Member for Sheffield and the -Honourable
Member for Sunderland were present, and it was therefore
futile to say that the iron interest was not represented. Mr.
Hawes had been on the Committee, and had become a convert
to the opinion that the object of the scheme was perfectly
practicable.
Mr. HAWES could not see what difference there was be-
tween a stationary-engine for a cotton manufactory, and
an iron •I'oundry.
Mr. WARBURTON said that an arrangement bad been
entered into with the ironmutere, azid on that arrangement