The Sun.
London, England, 1827-03-06 00:00:00

much evil was felt as the Noble Lord had stated. He knew o'
several examples of unanimity between the Catholic and Pro-
testants as to the palish expenoes; and, in one instance, a sum
of monr., which had been left in the hands of the thurch-
wardens, being more than was required, was given by, a vote
of the Vestry to the Parish Prieit, to assist in building a Catholic
Church.

Lord CLIFDEN acknowledged that the Act of
last Session, was intended to give relief to the Catholics, but it
was so badly drawn, that the remedy of appeal which it had given
could not be used. What he thought the Catholics might justly
complain of was, that the Cathedrals and Churches, when they
were taken from the Catholics and were given to the Protestants,
were in good repair, and had large revenues for keeping them in
repair; but these revenues had been otherwise employed, and
now the Catholics were taxed to repair and rebuild the Churches.
This was monstrous injustice. If the Catholics had been allowed
to retain their churches; they would have frequented them and
kept them in repair. The appeal, also, of which their Lordships
had heard, could only be made to Protestant Magistrates, who,
perhaps, had an interest in the matter.
The Earl of LIMERICK explained, that the Ca-
thedrals were in fact employed as parish churches, and as such
were repaired by the parish.
Lord KING explained, that he did not think 501.
a year too much for a clergyman performing the early service ;
but he thought 1001. or 1501. a year too much when levied on Ca-
tholics to pay two clergymen of the Established Church for per-
forming early service in a church in which there was no congre-
gation. He was afraid also, that the unanimity and concord of
which the Rev. Prelate had spoken existed some time ago, and was
not at present to he found.

Lord CARBERY said a few words, explaining the
law relative to building churches, which were not distinctly heard
below the bar. We understood his Lordship to say, that the Ca-
tholics would not he taxed to build a new church, nor to repair
an old one, unless it had been built 25 years.
Viscount STRANGFORD did not mean to fol-
low the Noble Baron through all his statements; but he happened
to he at Dublin last Easter, and at the Church of St. Thomas,
instead of the two old women mentioned, he saw a congregation
of 400 communicants, and at twelve o'clock there were 800 pre-
sent. What then became of the Noble Baron's assertion, that the
two women were paid to form a congregation ? What was the
value also, he would ask, of the Noble Baron's remark as to the
sum paid for sacramental wine ? Was 281. too much when there
were SOO communicants ?

Lord KING said he was not surprised at the num-
ber of communicants at that period, which ought not to be taken
as a criterion of the number of persons who generally comma-

nicated.

The petition was then read and laid on the table.

Mr. Johnstone, from the London Dock Company, presented at
the bar, the accounts of that Company from November, 1825, to
November, 1826.

The Earl of DARLINGTON presented a peti-
tion from the Ship-owne':a of Newcastle and South Shields, pray-
ing their Lordships tie appoint a Committee to inquire into the
Navigation LatvP._Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 5.
The Speaker took the Chair at four o'clock.—About twenty
Members took the oaths and their seats ; among them we noticed
Mr. Coke, Lord £brington, and Lord Lasceiles.

that the appendage of signatures in that manner was no ground
to charge a petition with inaccuracy. Although, strictly speak-
ing, no petition was supposed to be presented, which did not con-
tain the names affixed to it, in the handwriting of the subscri-
bers, yet it was permitted that a signature, such as the Hon.
Member described, should be taken as a test that the names had
been originally appended to the prayer. As to the petitions be-
ing in the same-band, it was by no means an unusual circum-
stance, nor did it invalidate the petition itself ; because the signa-
ture was a test, that the original petition had been agreed to by
the petitioners. _ _

CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.
Mr. COKE presented a petition signed by the
Archdeacons of Norwich and Sudbury, and by 2,000 of the
Clergy of the diocese of Norwich, praying for the removal of the

Mr. TIERNEY, observing that the petition was in
two sheets, wished to know, whether both sheets had been sent
round to those who placed their names to its prayer ?
Mr. H. MAXWELL said, that copies of the Pa-
rochial petitions had been sent round to every parish, so that
every person who signed it had an opportunity of knowing what
he signed.
The petitions were then read, and ordered to be printed.
The SPEAKER, when the petition was brought
up, took the opportunity to remark, that the prayer was repeated at
the bottom of the petition, so that those who signed could under-
stand its tenor, without examining the whole.

Mr. G. MOORE presented a petition from Dub-
lin, against the Catholic Claims.

Mr. H. GRATTAN, as the colleague of the
Right Hon. Member, thought it necessary to say, that although
the petition was signed by a number of respectable persons, resi-
dent in Dublin, yet he knew that the most considerable portion
of the wealth, talent, and rank of the Protestant inhabitants of
that city were favourable to the Catholic cause.—The petition was
then ordered to be printed.
Petitions in favour of Catholic Emancipation were presented
by Sir J. Newport from the Roman Catholic Inhabitants of the
Province of Munster ; by Mr. Brownlov-, from the Protestant
Traders, Merchants, and Bankers, of the Town of Belfast. The
Hon. Member observed, that this petition was signed by men
possessed of two millions of property, who prayed the House to
take into their serious consideration the penal state of the laws
regarding Roman Catholics.—The petition was ordered to be
printed.

Similar petitions were also presented by Mr. Brownlow, Mr.
Power, Mr. Canning, Mr. R. Martin, Earl Bective, Mr. R.
King, Mr. Portman, and Mr. V. Stuart.
Petitions against any further concessions to Roman Catholics
were then presented by
Sir J. BRIDGES, from Denham, in Essex.

Mr. WILSON from York, Tadcaster, and Boston.

A Member whose name we could not learn, trusted,
that the first of the three petitions just presented would not be
received, as the petition of the Inhabitants of the City of York.
It was merely signed by about forty persons, and had been got up,
not at a Public Meeting of the citizens, but in such a private
manner, as entitled him to describe it as a " hole and corner
petition."
The petitions were all received and read. Others to the same
effect were then presented by

Mr. R. FOUNTAINE WILS 3N, from Wether-
by, in Yorkshire : Mr. Waring Maxwell, from Down; Sir John
Astley, from Warminster ; Mr. G. Bankes, from Portland ; Lord
Oxinantown, from King's County ; Mr. G. H. Smith, from the
Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of Colchester—and also
two others from the County of Surrey ; Mr. Hart Davis, from
several parishes in the City of Bristol ; Mr. Wm. King, from
Monaghan; Lord Edward Somerset, from Clifton, in Glouces-
tershire ; Mr. Willoughby, from Newark-upon-Trent, in Not-
tinghamshire ; Mr. Curteis, from Sussex ; Mr. Stuart, from
Tyrone; Mr. Wells (who made a few observations, which, from
the very confused state of the House, were quite inaudible in
the Gallery), from Maidstone, in Kent ; Lord Stopford, from
Wexford..

disabilities affecting his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects.
The petition, after a few words from Mr. WODEII()USE in
support of it, was ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed.
Petitions against any ffirther concessions to the Catholics, were CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.
presented from the Archdeacon and Clergy of Exeter, and from Sir F. BURDETT said, that when he recollected
six parishes in the neighbourhood of Exeter. the numerous and important discussions which at different tin-es
Mr. E. S. COOPER presented a petition from this great question had undergone; when he recollected that the
Sligo, praying that no further concessions may be made to the cause of the Catholics had received the sanction of the most emi-
Roman Catholics. nent men of the country ; when he recollected that it had been sup-
Mr. H. KING su orted the ray of the etition.
ported by Burke, by Fox, by Pitt, by Sheridan, and "last, not least,"
pp p p
by Grattan ; when he recollected that almost every individual di
Mr. V. FITZGERALD took that opportunity of tinguished for his intellect, had added his authority to the greatra-n
stating, that a petition signed by a great majority of the Protestant mass of opinion in its favour it appeared to him that that
Inhabitants of the County he had the honour to represent (Clare). must be possessed of singular confidence who, without the most
was on its way to his hands, but by some fatality, he had not re- mature deliberation, and the most profound reflection, and also
ceived it in time to lay it before the House that night. He begged, without the means and the ability to account for and justify his
however, to declare, that he had reason to believe it contained the conviction, could make up his mind, against such a weight of
'
au-
signatures of a vast majority of the property and rank of the Pro- thority, to resist the motion with which he (Sir F. Burdett)
testant Inhabitants, praying that the Catholics may be permitted to should have the honour to conclude. Let it also be recollected
enjoy their civil and political rights. a that all the great men whom he had enumerated, and many more
The petition from Sligo was then ordered to be printed. than it was possible for him to enumerate, must be considered as
Lord C. MANNERS presented a petition from possessing more authority from the fact, that on almost all other
Ely, against the Catholic Claims. subjects they were at variance. Many of them were in situations
IVIr. ASHURST presented a petition from Ox- in which ambition, be it good or be it bad, operated as a power-
ful incitement on their minds ; but on this subject where there
ford, against any further concessions to the Catholics, and from
was no alloy of ambition in the motive by which they were ac-
Oxfordshire,.with the same prayer.
Sir KNATCHBULL presented petitions mated, where the course they were pursuing was the reverse of
popular, where they had to stem the tide o long-established pre-
against the Catholics from Rochester, Ashford, and several other judices, they risked every other consideration, and advocated a
places in Kent, and from a parish in Lincolnshire. cause from advocating which they could hope for no advantage
Mr.LYTTLETON, in presenting a petition from except the gratification of their own feeling of the importance, of
the. Workmen of the Staffordshire Potteries, against the Roman the justice, and of the policy of concession.—(Hear, hear, har )
Catholics, said, he could not at all agree in the prayer of the peti- Their authority was therefore doubled. It was not merelye the
tioners ; but, as their petition was the only one presented from authority of their intellect, but it was also the authoritytheir
of
that county, he hoped it would not be considered too great a tres- conviction of what was due to a sense of right, an to the pub-
pass
upon the attention of the House, if he requested that it might lie, good and interest. It must be moreover considered that
be read at length. the great men to whom he had alluded had removed all the
The petition was then read, and ordered to be printed. principal difficulties by which the subject had been environed.
A Member (we believe Sir J. WROTTESLEY) They had dispelled the clouds of ignorance, they bad turned the
said, that from being particularly connected with the county of current of misrepresentation, they had•left the Legislature to fol-
Stafford, he was able to say a great majority of its inhabitants low the dictates of pure reason, unere-urabered by that learned
were in favour of concessions to their Catholic fellow-subjects. lore which it had required the efforts of their extraordinary powers
(Hear, hear.) to remove. Such had been their labours ; so that, at the present
day, the question was reduced to one of a plain, simple, common-
Sir D. PARNELL presented a great many peti-
tions from Meath, Athboy, Tyrone, Killala, and other places,
sense, practical nature. At the same time, and while he de-
praying the House to relieve them from their political and civil scribed the authority by which the cause of the Catholics had been
disabilities. sustained, it must not be forgotten that their claims rested on the
Mr. H. HUTCHINSON presented similar peti- strong and solid lfouadation—if good faith was a strong and solid
foundation of a "treaty •, as well as on considerations of reason,
.
tions from Cork. policy, and expediency. He hoped he should be able to describe
Capt. HUTCHINSON presented a• petition from
the true grounds on which
the question stood. But, before he en-
Tipperary, in favour of the Catholic Claims. e t red into any examination of them, he begged leave to implorethe
Mr. I. BERNARD presented a similar petition House to come to the discussion with minds free from all those feel-
from Ballyboy, in the King's County. ings of irritation and prejudice which he was sorry to observe on a
Mr. H. MAXWELL presented petitions from late occasion seemed to he but too prevalent. He intreated them'to
Kilmore, Donoughmore, and Nlonaglian, against the Catholic lay aside all personal feeling, and not to substitute it for argu-
Claims. Upon the question that the petitions be brought up, ment in considering the wisdom of the great measure upon which
Mr. H. GRATTAN rose and said, that before he they were now called upon to determine.—(Hear !)—Every can-
permitted these petitions to be received, he would be glad to know did man must be disposed to admit that, where the passions had
b
if they were signed by the persons whose opinions they pretended been long and strongly excited, where expectations had been long
and painfully delayed, where interests of the greatest magnitude
to represent ; for, if they were not so signed, he believed he was
in order when he said that they could not be received, and that it were at stake, occurrences might and must occasionally take
place that all must lamest. Much had been done, and still more
was the duty of the Chair to take care that they were not, unless
the forms of the House were observed. The Honourable Gentle-
had been said, which no man could go the length of justifying ;
and although perhaps less had been done and said than under
man presented, on Friday, twenty-seven petitions from different
such circumstances might have been expected, yet there was no
parishes, against the Catholic Claims, and, as it was asserted,
doubt much which was deeply to be deplored. All these considera-
numerously signed. Now, be had taken the trouble to look them
lions, however, would, he trusted, be allowed to merge in the
over at the Office, and he found that to fifteen of them there was
merits of the great and important question on which the House
no signature whatever.--(Hear, hear, hear !)—He was sure, how-
had now to pronounce; and from a deliberate examination of
ever, that the Hon. Gentleman was not aware of these circum-
which he trusted they would not be turned by the influence of
stances, and that he must have presented them in that state
any interests comparatively unimportant.—(Hear, hear, hear !)
from inadvertence. Six of the petitions professed to be from
The Honourable Member for the county of Derry had told the
the inhabitants of Kilbride, and some other places, and they
House that he would open to-night the first page of a new his-
were signed only by William Maxwell and Henry Maxwell,
111. P. and J. P.—(Hear, hear !)—The petition from Kil- tory of Ireland. He (Sir Francis Burdett) hoped that the new
history of Ireland would not be like the old one ; he hoped
lesandra had only one signature underneath the words " The pe-
that it would not be "atrox 'monis, discors seditionibus ;"
titioners have hereunto subscribed," and that signature was Farn-
but that it would be a history of peace, and of conciliation,
ham—Lord Farnham, Governor.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—That
and safety, and happiness, to all parties.—(Hear, hear, hear !)
signature was in the handwriting of the Noble Lord, but he be-
-It had frequently been objected to time Catholics, that their
lieved (as we understood) that the other signatures were not in
religion was inconsistent with civil liberty, and many men,
the hand-writing of the Hon. Member. All the petitions were,
otherwise of liberal minds, possessed with that opinion, opposed
however, in the same hand-writing, and as it was contrary to law
any further concession to them. But who that called to mind
that printed petitions should be presented, the petitioners seemed
the conduct of our Catholic forefathers, of those men of great
to have taken care, that if their petitions could not emanate from
renown to whom we were indebted for the civil liberty which
the same press, that at all events they should be the work of the
we enjoyed, but must concur in lamenting that names which
same clerk. He should therefore beg to know whether the peti-
rendered illustrious every page of our history, names without spot
tions then presented had any signatures, in order that it might not
or stain of any kind, should at the present day stand as the ap-
go forth to the world that many petitions were received, nume-
pellations of a proscribed race ?—(Hear, hear, hear !)--While
roualy signed, when, in fact, they had no signatures at all ; a pre-
we boasted of the Institutions for which we were indebted to
caution he thought the more necessary, when so many exertions
their glorious efforts--Institations which no true Englishman
were made to lead the young English Members to believe that
would surrender but with life—lnstitutions which, while they
the majority of the Protestants of Ireland were hostile to the
claims of their Catholic fellow-countrymen. constituted our own security and happiness, were the admiration
The SPEAKER said it was undoubtedly his duty of the world—we withheld justice from the descendants of their
immortal founders.—(Hear, bear!)—When the House recol-
to take care that no petitions were received in that House which
lected, that even under all the disadvantages and disabilities un-
mig ' ht be either informal in their construction, or inconsistent in der which the Catholics of the present day laboured, they never
their prayer ; but he would first beg to ask the Hon. Member failed us in the hour of peril and of combat ; when they recol-
one question—whether he intended to say that the fifteen peti- lected that many of the names of the heroes of Cressy and Agin-
tions of which he spoke were without any signature at all ? or court, were also the names of the heroes of Waterloo (the name
whether they were not presented on the authority of certain sig-
of Howard came at once strongly on hi memory) ; when they
natures, which were supposed to be annexed to them.—(Hear.)
also recollected that the Catholics disclaimed the imputations of
Mr. H. GRATTAN admitted that there were subservience.to a foreign power which had been Cast upon them;
some signatures on detached pieces of paper.—(Loud shouts of when they recollected the conduct of our Catholic forefathers
" gear, hear.") towards that power to which the Catholics of the present
- The SPEAKER beggea to explain to the House, i day were supposed to be slavishly submissive; he thought they

would feel ashamed of longer withholding from them a full
participation in the civil rights of their countrymen.—(Hear,
hear, hear!)—Let the House only look at the reign of Edward
the First, when the Pope endeavoured to interfere with the
temporal concerns of England ; and when that Monarch re-
plied that he would not admit of any interference in his king-
dom, on the part of the See of Home. On that occasion, the
Barons of England wrote a letter to the Pope, of which he (Sir
F. Burdett) had brought a copy with him to the House, al-
though he would not trouble them by reading rret.e than one
or two sentences, which, however, could leave no doubt on
the mind of any impartial man that the Catholics of that period
were not such submissive slaves to the Papal Authority as some
persons supposed. The Honourable Baronet proceeded to read
from the Barons' letter several paragraphs, the substance of which
was as follows :—" Our Lord the King will by no means he an-
swerable judicially to you regarding his rights of the kingdom, or
any of his other temporalities; nor will he submit to your sen-
tence in any manner, or allow his aforesaid rights to be questioned;
nor will he send for that purpose Procurators or Messengers to
your presence ; particularly when the premises would manifestly
lead to the diminution of the right of the Crown, and Royal
dignity of England, and to the notorious subversion of the state
of that kingdom, and also to the prejudice of the liberty, customs
and paternal laws, to the observance and defence of which, in con-
formity with the oath taken we are bound ; and that which we
are in possession of, we will, with the assistance of God, defend
with our whole power and strength. Neither do we permit, nor
shall we in any manner permit, as we cannot and ought not to
permit, the King our Lord aforesaid to do, or he any manner to
attempt to do, even if willing, such unusual, undue, prejudicial
and otherwise unheard-of things." He had quoted this letter
merely to show that the idea of submission to any extent to the
See of Rome by the Catholics had b'v'i at all times unfounded.—
With respect to the particular disqualifications under which the
Catholics at present laboured, the House would do well to call to
mind the circumstances in which those disqualifications originated;
and if it should appear, as in his opinion it must inevitably appear
to every candid and impartial man, that those circumstances were
insufficient to justify their infliction, it would be evident a
fortiori, that to continue to inflict on our Catholic country-
men a punishment, the alleged cause for wh;eli, at the time of
its origin was preposterous, would he altogether unjustifiable.—
Let it be recollected, that the act of depriving the Roman Catho-
lics of the power of holding certain situations in the State arose in
the time of Charles the Second, out of what was called the Popish
Plot. Let it also be recollected that at the present day little
weight was attached to that plot; although he would not say
that at the period he alluded to no danger was to be apprehended
to the Protestant interest, the King upon the throne being a pen-
sioner of France, and the next successor a Roman Catholic. Cm-
necting the notions of civil liberty with religious doctrine, it was,
perhaps, not surprising that, conceiving that all they valued was
at stake, the best and wisest men of that day proceeded to excesses
of which, if they lived at present, they would be greatly ashamed.
When it was recollected that most of the measures which were
adopted at that period were, to say the best of them, measures of
doubtful justice ; when it was recollected that the party spirit of
that period brought so good, so just, and so virtuous a man as
Lord Russell to the block ; when it was recollected that the dis-
qualifications of the Catholics were attributable to the same de-
scription of feelings to which the shedding of that Noble blood
was to be ascribed ; when it was recollected that within a short
period from the present moment Parliament had reviewed and
reversed the attainder of that innocent and unfortunate Noble-
man Lord Stafford; and when it was recollected that by that
act the Legiilature deliberately acknowledged the injustice of
the times in which the Catholic disqualifications originated ;
he trusted that it would not be too much to ask the
House, especially after the decision of three preceding
Houses of Commons, to think of some little reparation,
some attempt at recompence, to the descendants of those who were
so unjustly used ; some effort to rescue the country from the
stigma which that usage had impressed upon it—(Hear, hear,
hear !)—With respect to the present claims of the Catholics of
Ireland, he begged leave to say, that he thought the House was
hound by considerations of good faith to grant them. He al-
luded to the Treaty of Limerick, When he had formerly asserted
that, in his opinion the Catholics of Ireland were entitled by the
Treaty of Limerick to the enjoyment of a full participation in all
the civil rights of the community, the Right Honourable the Se-
cretary of State for the Home Department had said that he (Mr.
Peel) put a different interpretation upon the stipulations of that
Treaty, which appeared to him not to extend to public rights,
but to be confined merely to private property; and also intimated
that if it were required by considerations of good faith, he would
certainly give the Catholics the benefit of the Treaty. Now it
was important to remark the words of the Treaty ; and to him
it appeared that nothing could be plainer. The Treaty began
thus : " The Roman Catholics of this kingdom shall enjoy such
privileges in the exercise of their religion as are consistent with
the laws of Ireland ; or as they did enjoy in the reign of King
Charles the Second." After stipulating fur the secure possession
of their• estates of freehold and inheritance, the Treaty proceeded,
—" And all the rights, titles, and interests, privileges, and im-
munities, which they, and every or any of them held, enjoyed, or
were rightfully and lawfully entitled to in the reign of King Charles
the Second."

Mr. Secretary PEEL observed across the table,
that the stipulations of the Treaty did not refer to the Catholics
generally ; but only to those who were resident in Limerick, or
any other garrison then in the possession of the Irish.

(Ted them from England ;" and that " nothing could equal
the provocation the Catholics had received, particularly from that
race of conquerors, the Corporation of Dublin." As to the wish
of the Government of this country not to have their repime dis-
turbed by the affairs of Ireland, it was in vain. Ireland hid risen
into too great importance not to trouble us if we did not tiike just
and proper means to prevent her from doing so. The days had
passed away when Ireland could be neglected with impunity. The
interests of Ireland were now among the most vital interests of the
Empire. Until within a few years indeed the condition of Ireland
was most abject ; the laws were dreadfully oppressive, and were
efficiently administered. It was Mr. Pitt who saw the advan-
tage of introducing a system of conciliation ; and of endeavour-
ing to raise the people of Ireland in the scale of humanity.—
The Government of England had thought proper to pursue a
system of gradual concession to the Irish Catholics, which had
rendered them fit to receive a full participation in all the bene-
fits of the Constitution; it had elevated their minds to the
highest pitch of refinement ; it had made them susceptible of
the keenest impressions of their injuries; it had given them the
sense of knowing their wrongs ; and if the House refused to do
them that justice MIMI he (Sir Francis Burdett) demanded in
their behalf, nothing could be inure unwise than the conduct
that had been pursued towards them. Those who, by their
measures, had brought the Catholics to the highest degree of
improvement which qualified them to enjoy every civil right,
and honourable distinction, must have had in view that goal at
which the House had new arrived ; they must have meant to
complete and crown theft work by that great, that just and
wise measure, now under the consideration of Parliament. No-
thing could be more wise, nothing could be more humane, than
by degrees to raise up a fallen people ; nothing could be more
just and politic than to loosen the fetters that bound them to
the earth ; to strike off their shackles one by one ; to free them
by degrees, until they were at length fit for complete and full
action. Mr. Pitt evidently had this great final object constantly
in his view ; but, unluckily, he began his work at the wrong
end. It was contended by those who opposed Catholic Eman-
cipation, that it was too much to admit them into seats in
Parliament, and to extend political rights to the lowest people.—
Perhaps it was worse to follow the course they were following, in
relieving the people, and giving them power, whilst they denied to
the upper classes those reasonable and just rights to which they
were certainly entitled. It was the most preposterous thing that
could be imagined, to take from the Catholics those cruel laws
which prevented their acquiring landed property and exercising
liberal professions, but which bound their minds to their condi-
tion, and accustomed them to bear their wrongs, if it was not in-
tended at a subsequent period to grant them the full benefits of
that station, for which the removal of those cruel laws had
qualified them. Having been rendered free, except to the ex-
isting impediments, the genius of Ireland had made a rapid
stride—the Roman Catholics of that country were in no wise
inferior to the Protestants, in every intellectual acquirement,
or in every moral excellence, and they had succeeded in ac-
quiring power and wealth. England had already extended to
the lowest people political power, and, by the measure pro-
posed, no addition of such power would be conferred upon them.
When the Government had given the rights of election to the
people generally, it was quite preposterous to prevent a few Ca-
tholic Gentlemen being elected to seats in the House of Commons,
or to prevent Catholic Noblemen taking their seats in the House
of Peers. It was surprising that gentlemen, who professed
themselves followers of Mr. Pitt, and adopters of his principles,
should abandon the views of Mr. Pitt upon this great question ;

the greatest of his whole Administration, and upon the promise of
carrying which he accomplished the Union between England and
Ireland. Their respect for the authority of that Statesman ceased
just at the point wh-are his authority would be of the greatest ser-
vice to the State—there it was they cast him off.—(Cheers.)—
With all their pretended veneration for their former leader, upon
this subject they acted as if he had been a childish Statesman, who
was supposed to have no weight. The opinions of Mr. Pitt upon
this subject did not admit of the slightest doubt. All persons who
knew any thing of the state of the two countries at the time of the
Union, must perfectly well know to what a height animosities
were then carried ; and that the desired union of Ireland with this
country never would have been effected bet by the promise of re-
lieving the Irish Roman Catholics from their disabilities. That
relief had been hopelessly contended for in Parliaments chosen
agreeably to the political system of that country ; and the Catho-
lics thought that, supported by the great authority and talents of
Mr. Pitt, and by all the circumstae m then concurring in their
favour, they should obtain Emancipation. They were bnoyel
up in their hopes by Mr. Pitt professing to do all in his poWer to
effect their liberation. They reposed the greatest confidence in
the assurances of that Statesman ; and it was an act of shame and
disgrace if their hopes were finally destroyed. Mr. Pitt had
thought that Catholic Emancipation was indispensable to the.
safety and welfare of both countries. Finding he could not
achieve the object, he thought it totally inconsistent with his duty,
and a violation of honour, to continue any longer in office. InlBol
Mr. Pitt had said to the Catholics, that as for the merits of the
question, he and some of his colleagues felt it incumbent upon
them to declare the necessity of effecting Catholic Emancipation ;
and as such great opposition was made to the measure, he felt it
impossible, with respect to his duty and honour, any longer to
remain part of the Administration. In another paper, Mr. Pitt
declared that he had retired from his Majesty's service because
he had not been able to bring forward this measure in his Minis-
terial capacity. Mr. Pitt had assured the Catholics that he had
done the utmost to establish their cause. In his address to the
Catholics he said, " the Catholic Body will prudently consider
their prospects as arising from the persons who now espouse their
interests, and compare them with those which they could look to
from any other quarter. They may with confidence rely on the
zealous support of all those who retire, and of many who remain
in office, when it can he given with a prospect of success. They
may be assured that Mr. Pitt will do his utmost to establish their
cause in the public favour (though he could not concur in a hope-
less attempt to force it now), and prepare the way for their
finally attaining their object." He (Sir Francis Burdett)
had no doubt that that was the opinion of Mr. Pitt, and
that the Catholics generally confided in his promises, and be-
lieved that the Union would enable him to perform them. In
fact, unless this measure was carried, no real union between
the two•countries could be said to take place. A mere Act of
Parliament could unite no countries whatever. Mr. Pitt con-
templated that union which would alone take place when the
Catholic Question was carried—a union not of words or form;
but a union of heart, of interest—this sort of union could alone
produce such results as Mr. Pitt proposed ; a union which
would give prosperity to Ireland, and introduce into that
country capital, and many of those effects which he, at
that time, contemplated, but which never could take place
under the circumstances in which Ireland was now held.
Unless the great measure of Catholic Emancipation was car-
ried, Ireland would never cease to be what she was at the exist-
ing moment, a perpetual cause of embarrassment to England--a
ceaseless drain upon her finances, instead of a source of happiness
and strength. There did not exist a people more int,lligent than
the Irish. They, possessed every natural advantage a nation could
possibly possess. It was an indelible disgrace to England, that
she should be in possession of so fine a people to work upon, end
draw from them no better results. It was a reproach to an En-.
glishman, wherever he showed himself (hear, hear, hear!). The
Government of Ireland had always been modified to meet the views
of an interested and predominant faction in that country. Even as
a measure of economy, England ought to oppose what Mr.-Burke
called that " Junta of jobbers which had so long held an-ascen-
dency over Ireland." They had:possessed Ireland as their property,
pursued,
ed were
Irelandsure
as a fertile source of profitable jobbing, from the Government of
Lord Chesterfield to that of Lord Cornwallis. It was their interest
to blow up the coals of civil discord, and therefore they opposed
Emancipation, and every measure that could produce union and
tob
prosperity.e gainers.
nt
coursewhatever
ere this, would have been making ample returns to the general
welfare of the Empire. She would have been pouring wealth
int
of
o the
beingla pof a England,shame strengthening her resources ; in-
steadand disgrace to her name, she would have and had been up,p they
constituted her honour and glory—instead of a perpetual drain
upon her resources, she would have presented an inexhaustible
fund of . riches—instead of presenting a point of attack to the
enemy, She would have been a bulwark of defence.—(Loud
cheers.)--It was out of the power of any man to imagine a
worse system of Government than that pursued towards Ire-
land. No considerate or rational men could calculate upon
the continuance of the state of things which at present existed.
So far from it, they had heard from persons of every variety
of opinion—from men actuated by the most opposite motiies,
and of feelings the most hostile, that ' the present state of
things could not be allowed to 'continue much longer.
Whatever difference existed amongst men connected with
Ireland, or acquainted with her
,affairs, in this point they all
most readily and cordially agreed.—(Hear, hear, hear !)
He (Sir Francis) would say to all those who opposed the
measure be had now the honour of supporting, " if you will
not agree with what is prposed, the country has a right to call
upon you for some other proposition."—(Cheers.)—They had
been brought to a crisis, a point at which things could not

Sir F. BURDETT maintained, that the Treaty
was not confined in its operation, as the Right Hon. Secretary
contended. But the article to, which he wished especially to
call the attention of the House was the ninth. As if the Catho-
lics had anticipated the present injustice respecting the oaths re-
quired from them, they took care to stipulate in that article, that
the oath to be administered to such Roman Catholics as submit-
ted to their Majesties' Government, should be the oath of alle-
giance, and no other.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Now how could it
be said that we had preserved good faith with the Catholics, when
at present it was only by requiring other oaths than the oath of
allegiance that we excluded Roman Catholics from the Houses of
Parliament, and from various situations of trust and dignity—
(Hear, hear, hear.)? In his construction of this part of the
Treaty of Limerick, it was impossible but that the Right Hon.
Gentleman must concur with him. If the Right Hon. Gentle-
contended that the Treaty referred only to those Irish who were
in arms, he must at least allow that some of those Catholics had
descendants, who were entitled to the conditions made with their
progenitors. But so to limit the application of the Treaty was
contrary to all reason and probability. It would be most mon-
strous and preposterous that those who were not in arms, those
who had given the least offence, should be divested of the advan-
tages which were conceded to their more hostile countrymen.---
He felt himself therefore perfectly justified in contending that in
pursuance of the Treaty of Limerick, no other oath ought ever to
have been imposed upon the Catholics of Ireland but the oath of
allegianee.---(Hear, hear.) With respect to the Catholics of Eng-
land, they were among the best and most irreproachable members of
the community. Their conduct as a public body, and their charac-
ter as private individuals, were such as to render their exclu-
sion from civil rights utterly unjustifiable. If the House would
look at the names of the English Catholics they would at once
recognise some of the most illustrious in our annals. No class of
his Majesty's subjects could stand the test of scrutiny into their
public and private lives more triumphantly than the Catholics of
England. And yet these very persons, who were omni excep-
tions majores," were in a worse condition even than the Catholics
of Ireland ! All their good conduct had obtained for them
nothing. How could the House with common decency pretend
to refuse the Claims of the Catholics of Ireland because those
Claims had been pressed in a manner not quite palatable (which
was natural enough considering their irritation of feeling) ; while
at the same time they did not place another portion of Catholics
against whom no similar accusation had ever been preferred, even
on equal terms with the Catholics of Ireland ! Was not that to
proclaim to the Catholics of England that they ought to take a
different course ; for that so long as they chose to lie down and he
trampled upon, trampled upon they would be.—(Hear, hear,
hear.)--When he recollected how tenacious this country had al-
ways pretended to be of its good faith, he felt ashamed to reflect
that the only persons with whom it had not kept faith were so
large a portion of its own population. It was but a few days ago
that it was declared in that House, that the good faith of England
was pledged to maintain the family of Braganza on the throne of
Portugal. No one, whatever he might think of the policy of
adhering to the Treaty, denied that good faith required us to do so.
By that Treaty we had formed an alliance with the people of
Portugal. But was not an alliance with the people of Ireland of
infinitely more importance to us- than an alliance with the people
of Portugal.—(Hear, hear, hear.)?--Simply by doing an act
of justice, we might cement a most valuable alliance with six mil-
lions of faithful and attached Catholics in Ireland, an event that
would be incalculably more beneficial to this country than an
alliance formed in any other part of the world.----(Hear, hear,
hear. )—Coming down to a later period, he was sorry to say
with Mr. Burke, " that he had never known any of the suc-
cessive Governments, in his time, influenced by any passion rela-
tive to Ireland than the wish that they should hear of it, and of
its concerns, as little as possible ;" that the Government " had
abandoned Ireland to a junta of jobbers, who endeavoured to
secure to- themselves lucrative repose against the factions who
might oppose them there, or the rivals who might want to suc-

• Mr. Burke's Letters, forming an Appendix to " A Letter
to the Right Hon. G. Canning, on the Present State of the Ca-
tholic Question, from R. Therry, of the Honourable Society of
Gray's Inn."