The Sun.
London, England, 1829-02-04 00:00:00

—.—
SORE THROATS, HOARSENESS, &e.

RUTLER's ACIDUL ATED CAYENNE
LOZENGES are particularly recomwended fur
habitual sore Throats; relaxation of the Uvula; enlarge
merit of the To► Mils, and that description rof .11oarseuess
wh;sl► arises from relaxation of the membranes of the
Throat, and tho parts contiguous.
The Cayenne Lozenge has been found of great utility to
such Persons as are frequently in the habit of speaking- i►►
public ; fey may therefore be advantageously taken in the
Senate, at the Bar, and in the Pulpit, and the highest
testimony in the Musical World has been advanced in their
favour, especially in those wises, where, from the con--
shunt use of the voice, or the influence of a humid. at-
mosphere, the membranes have hecomerelaxed, and dimi-
nished in their tone.

These Lozenges are also recommended as a stimulus,
during Field Sports ; they are refreshing and prevent sore.
Threats, Hoarseness, &e. tnthose who are unaccustomed to
exposure in the morning, before the dew has passed off,
and in moist and foggy evenings.
Sold in Boxes at 2e. and 44. 6a. by itlessrs. Butler,
Chemists, Cheapside, corner of St. Paul's; Seaside-
street, Dublin t Princes-street, Edinburgh ; Savory and
Co., 13(i, New Bond-street;
.nail the principal Metlioine
Venders in the Kingdom.
Aek for BUTLER'S CAYENPI.LOZENGES..

CORRESPONDENCE.

CORRESPONDENCE lIETWEIN TIIE RIGHT HON. R. WILMOT
M.P., AND lIIE RIGHT REV. P. A. BAINES,
D.D., BISHOP OF SIGH, COADJUTOR, TO THE VICAR
APOSTOLIC IN THE WESTERN DISTRICT, DOMESTIC PRE-
LATE TO ins HoLINEss THE POPE, AND ASSISTANT TO

THE PONTIFICAL THEONE.
DEDICATION.

This " Correspondence " is respectfully dedicated
to the Members of the House of Lords and of the
House of Commons, under the conviction that it
will be found to contain matter of no common in-
terest, and in the confidence that, whatever vio-
lence may have been demonstrated by any parties in
the empire, who are placed in the attitude of mutual
opposition upon the Roman Catholic question, that
vital subject will be considered in a temperate and
conciliatory spirit within the walls of Parliament.
These letters sufficiently explain themselves to
make it unnecessary to accompany them with much
commentary. They have been translated into Ita-
lian, and published at Rome,—a circumstance which
must furnish a conclusive aniwer to any persons
who might be disposed to assert, that the letters of
Dr. Baines furnished no proof that his sentiments
had been promulgated -with the cognizance of the
Papal See. It is notorious that all publications at
Rome are subject to supervision, and that none, in-
volving political or religious subjects, can take place
without the knowledge of the Secretary of State,
whose sanction, therefore, is necessarily implied,
whenever the opinions of the Papal See are made
the subject of discussion. lam well aware that the
high character which Dr. Baines has long enjoyed
for distinguished abilities, combined with Christian
moderation of feeling, would in itself have afforded
a most satisfactory guarantee of the authority of his
assertions; but the fact of the actual publication of
tOse letters at Rome confirms that guarantee be.
yond the reach of doubt.*

I am willing to hope that these letters will-con-
vince the mind of every unprejudiced person how
easy it would be, were but the slightest encourage-
ment given by those in authority, to settle the Ro-
man Catholic question upon principles which could
not fail to satisfy the reasonable expectations of
both parties, by combining Roman Catholic free-
dom with Protestant security. Can any thing be
more satisfactory than the distinction drawn by Dr.
Baines between the temporal rights of the Sove-
reign and the spiritual jurisdiction of the Pope ?
Can any thing be more satisfactory to those persons
who are not satisfied with the solid and substantial
security which the cessation of religious differences
is certain to give, than the assurance that the Pope
would be the last man in Europe to offer objections
to any specific security which, without interfering
with the Roman Catholic religion, was circulated to
" secure to the established church the undisturbed
possession of rights and revenues ?" If it be found
practicable to continue to the Protestant the exclu-
sive right of legislation respecting those rights and
revenues, in what quarter can danger be supposed
o exist ?

The impossibility, as it appeared to me, of any
valid answer being given to that question, induced
me to suggest the protective security to which Dr.
Baines refers in his second letter. The principle of
that security was a prohibition to Roman Catholics
to legislate for the Protestant church ; and to that
principle Dr. Baines says " no Catholic could object,
as incompatible with his religion."
The opposers of Catholic Emancipation in the
two Houses of Parliament have, for many years,
with remarkable unanimity, rested their resistance
upon their apprehension of the consequences of le-
gislation on the part of the Roman Catholic for the
Protestant Church.- It is now in proof, that the
highest Roman Catholic authority offers no protest
against the enactment of a prohibition of such legis-
lation. On the contrary, it is in proof that Rome is
the last quarter in Europe from whence such a pio-
test may be expected to proceed. To entertain ap-
prehensions of the see of Rome, after such an ad-
mission, is, in my judgment, merely to may that six
millions of our Roman Catholic fellowsubjects shall
ba eternally excluded from their civil tights, whether
the Protestant Church be endangered or not. If it
be necessary to exact this prohibition, or any other
special.seculity, equally unobjectionable to the Ro-
man Catholics, for;the protection of the Protestant
church, simultaneously with measures for the re-
moval of their disabilities, let such protective secu-
rity be carried into effect by Parliament, without
tipped and without negotiation wiih any. party.
When such protective security 511011 have been

to The following is a copy of. the title-page of this publi-
cation :—" Corrispondenza:fra S. E. H. Wilmot Horton,
Membro del Parletnento e Consigliere Privato da Suit
Alaesta Britannica, e Monsig. Pietro A. Baines, Veseovo
di Sigi, Coml. Vic. Apost. nel Distretto Occidentale dell
In; ltiherra, Prelato Domestico a• sue Santita, ed Assistente
al Soglio Pontificia Boson, l8:29, al presso di."
t Vide extracts from the speeches of 51 Members olthe
two Ilouses_of,Parliament, in Appendix A to " Protestant
Securities Suggested." As, specimens of this unanimity,
I transcribe the following passaivsifromAhe speeches of the
late Duke of York and of Mr.. Peel. All the.other speeches
will be found to be,.more or less, in the same strain of ap-
prehension. Surely," said his Royal Highness,"" their
Lordships could not wish to place the established
of England upon a worse footing than any other Church•
within these realms; nor allow the Roman Catholics,
who not only refused to,submit to our rules, but who de-
nied any authority of the civil power over their Church, to
legislate for the established Church, which must be the.
case if they should be admitted to seats in either House of
Parliament." Mr. • Peel thus expressed himself.—" My
Right Hon. Friend asks, ‘ Are you afraid of the Pope in
these days?' lam not.afraid-of the Pope nor of the Pre-."
tender ; but I am afraid of a powerful internal party in this
country, of whom great numbers are dissatisfied, as they
must be, with our principles of religion; and I can never
think that they can be fit to enact laws respecting the
established religion."

enacted, if regulations with respect to the practical
exercise of.the Rinnan Catholic religion within the
realm (most improperly and inaccurately termed se-
•curities, and -which, he it observed, Wore: Sieve:
adopted by Protestant states for the special oltject
of protecting Prorc•lsti; intetc-r-) be stdl wanted,
• —a subject which involves considerations of the
most serious nature,—let such regulations be ob-
tiiiited,•asTother • Protestant nations have obtained
them from Rome Itself ; 'at- least, let them be ob-
"Ulric(' in conjunction With Rome as a friendly power,
and not imposed upon the l(ela.tn Catholics by the
force of Pat liament, while Rome, to which they owe
spiritual obedience, is compelled, under the perni-
cious etfeet of our present taws, to continue in the
character of a proscribed enemy.
It, then, a proltibition of legislating fur the Pro-
testant church cannot be reclaimed it:/ainst by the
Iloman Catholic as a Catholic, can it be reclaimed
against as too great an vitcrouchment on the sum of
his civil .righti ? This is a question for Parliament:
to decide, as well as- the renetal constitutionality and
practicability of such an eilar:vis,iit , • but,happily,
the decision does not involve idly consideration of a
religious or theological character; and the question
is thereby relievedhom what 'IRS always been found
to constitute its peculiar embamssment. If it can
be shown that such a prohibition is strictly in keep-
ing with the Constitution of 16S8, and with the
Government of England have made no less- than
three applications to the Pope fur a Concordatum.
The application was not made directly, for the law
of pnemunire prevented it; but it was done as ef-
fectually by the Hanoverian Ambassador resident at
Rome. These successive applications were made
to the Pspe.; and I am .now authorized to state the
answer of his Holiness. It was couched in terms
of kindness and. friendship towards the British Go-
vernment, but it ended with an emphatic declara-
tion, that, until the Catholics of Ireland were eman-
cipated, no treaty on the subject would be received
at Rome.--(lmmense cheering.)—The Catholics of
Ireland will join with me in praying for the blessing
of Almighty God on his Holiness for this declara-

don. Ire is the father of the Catholic Church; .he
will not enter into any arrangement regarding the
government of the church in this country, until the
freedom of the Catholics is established."
I feel convinced, notwithstanding such a state-
ment, that if such an .application, which I entirely
doubt, has been made, no :it eh answer can have been
returned. The laws prohibiting all communication
with the See of Rome, expose, or at least are popu-
larly presumed to exp se,, any British Minister lo
the penalties of a premunire wlto should make the
slightest application of an official nature to the See of
Rome. I can easily conceive that, until those perni-
cious and disgraceful laws shall have been repealed,
the See of Rome would be unwilling to enter into
any question involving the consideration of a con-
cordat, or of any arrangement affecting the ROman
Catholic religion in the. United Kingdom. 'But
that objections should exist to any comaitinication
with the British Government, founded upon- the
non-completion of the civil measure of Catholic
emancipation, is what I will not, and cannot credit,
until I have better authority for my belief. I shalt
therefore abstain from any conditional commentary
upon such u supposed answer, and limit myself to
the question to which I have already adverted.
Do you believe it to be true that the Pope has
ever decimal in an emphatic manner (to adopt the
phrase of Mr. O'Connell) to any persen, at any' time,
directly or indirectly, or even made use of words
which could under, env fair construction, imply, that
" no treaty with the :British Government (01 the
subject of a concordat would be received at Rome

until the Catholics of Ireland were emancipated ?"
I request, however, that before you give any
answer to this letter, you will explicitly unders-tand
that I am neither authorized nor advised by any
person to put this question to you, and that 1 have
acted upon this occasion, as on all others connected
with the Catholic question, upon my own sole and
undivided responsibility. I remain, my dear Sir,
with great regard, very faithfully your's,

The Right Rev. Dr. Bainee, &c.

R. W. HORTON.

IL-DIG BAINEs'b ANSWER.

Dec. 13, 1825.
My dear Sir,---Before I proceed to answer the
queries contained in your obliging communication
of the 10t1h inst., allow me to rcmaik, that as
member of the British Parliament, as a Plivy Coun-
cillor of his Britannic Majesty, as a tried and talewal.
supporter of the Catholic cause, both within and
without the walls of Pa rliament,l consider you fully
entitled to any information which I have the right
and power to communicate. On these accounts I
shall not shrink front the task you impose upon me,
though I clearly perceive that it is leading me upon
delicate ground, and exposing me to a risk which I
had never intended to lull, of becoming a party
amongst me►► of opposite opinions, and mixing in a
subject which, as belonging rather to politics than
religion, I would rather have left to others. After
this preamble, I will proceed to the subject of your
letter.

I entirely agree with you, that in the present
agitated and irrituble state of the public mind in
Great Britain and Ireland, on the subject of Catholic
Emancipation, it is highly desirable that the exact
truth should be known on all points calculated to
influence the decison of that momentous question. lit
fact, it could never have remained so long undecided,
to the wonder of all Europe, and the reproach of
England, had it been better understood by the
English public.

But, anxious as I feel, in common, not only w:th
every Catholic, but I will venture to add, with every
real friend to the country, for the success of the Ca-
tholic question, I would rather see it vanquished, as
it has hitherto been, by the mis-statements and dis-
figurements of its enemies, than consent to its triumph
by a single wilful misrepresentation on the part
of its friends. The same, lam persuaded, are the
sentiments of Mr. O'Connell; I admire that gentle-
man, as every one must, for his powerful talents; I
feel crateful to him, as I think every one ought, for
the distinguished use he has made of them in the
service of his unfortunate country; but I respect
him.ehieflyi because I belie% e him to be a man of
strict integrity, and incapable of a wilful misrepre-
sentation, whLtaver purpose it might appear to him
to answer.

On this account, when I read the statement in
Galignani's Paper, which makes Mr. O'Connell
assert that the Pope had " emphatically declared"
that he would not enter into any treaty with England
on the subject of a concordat, " until the Catholics
of Ireland were emancipated," I felt certain, either
that the reporters had mistaken Mr. O'ConnelPs
words, or that the latter had, in the hurry of the
moment, given credit to some erroneous information,
which a little more reflection would have convinced
him could not be correct.

After these remarks, it can hardly be nece,:sary
to answer your query, " whether I believe it to be
be true that the Pope ever declared, in an emphatic
manner
..(to adopt; the phrase of Mr. O'Connell), to
any person,.
,at any time, directly or indirectly, or
ever made use of words which could, under any fair
construction, imply, that no treaty with the British
Government, on the subject of a concordat, would be
received at Rome 'until the Catholics of Ireland were
emancipated."
Most certainly I do not think it true, that the
Pope ever made such a .declaration, emphatically or
otherwise, or ever used words -which could fairly be
construed into such a meaning. In making, how-
-1 ever, this dechuation, I beg it to be distinctly under-
stoOV, that I am expressing only my oWn private
conviction. I am:not, as you are aware,• authorized
to make do.. I hold nay office which entitles
me, in an ofli44:11 ,sense, to be 'acquainted with the
declarations of his 11,01inefiS, or with the cout-Imi-
nications which he may have with foreign. states;
and much.less do. I mean tunassoft, that there is a dis-
position in the Holy 'ere to netrdciatea concordat,
should such a prop'osition be made.
I merely speak to the 'matter of fact, and express
as my entire conviction, that if three, or 300 ap-
plications, were made by the British Government for

• - t
• -
a concordat, the answer would not be that attributed
to the Holy See id the printed report of-l4lr. O'Con-
nell's speech. Whilst the law ex►sts „which -prohi-
bits all correspondence on the part of Government
with the Holy Sec, it is difficult to believe that an
English M'nister would make a proposal to that ef-
fect, and utterly incredible that_ the Holy See would
in that case, allege any other reason for declining a
treaty than the existence of such a law.
WhaLmight be done in the event of a legal com-
munication between the two Governments being
established, I cannot pretend to predict; but I know
sufficient of the principles of ;the Catholic church,
and have sufficient confidence in the wisdom of his
Holiness, to be.satistied, that should any treatyhere-
after be set on foot, he would be found at averse to
invade the temporal rights of his Britannic Majesty,
as to betray the spiritual interests of the Catholic
church in his Majesty's dominions.
I know not whether I have said sufficient to con-
vince you that Mr. O'Connell has been led into mis-
take respecting the declaration attributed to his
Holiness ; it not, I can only regret that my ignorance
respecting the details of the law of prcemunire
not allow me to run the risk of saying more ; I am
not, however, without hopes that Mr. O'Connell,
upon examining his information, will discover the
mistake into which he has been led, and himself
correct it. - :remain,. my dear Sir,

P. A. BAINES, 8p.,0f Sign..
The Right Hon. R. Wilmot llorton, &c.

111.--31 R. WILMOT HORTON'S SECOND LETTER. •
Rome, Dec. 15, 1828.,

My dear Sir,—l am extremely gratified to find
that it has been in your power to afford so satisfite-:
tory a correction of the statement made by Mr.
O'Connell, to which I called your attention in my
letter of the 10th inst. There is, however, another
statement made by that gentleman, or at least an
opinion very unequivocally expressed, which appears
to me 'calculated, if not contradicted, to produce the
most inconvenient consequences. This statement or.
opinion is evidently founded upon the entire mis-
conception which pervaded his mind in the former
instance. lam equally anxious that the exact truth
should transpire in this second instance. The state-
ment is as follows :
In Galignani's Messenger of the 15th of No-
vemt,er, I find the record of a late meeting of the
British Catholic Association, from whence it,ap-
pears that the' Duke of Norfolk had expressed him-
self in -the following terms :—" That he was fa-
vourable to firm language being made use of in the
petition of the British Catholics, but he trusted no
language would be made use of which would imply
that they rejected any measures which the Govern-
ment might offer them, because accompanied with
securities. Such was his opinion, and he lied
arrived at it after mature deliberation." On that
occasion, it appears, Mr. Eneas Macdonnell (whom
Mt. O'Connell has' subsequently described as the
agent of the Catholic Association in England) pro-.
tested agrinst this doctrine of the Duke of Norfolk
in the following terms:—
" One word as to unconditional emancipation.
He would declare his sentiments on that subject
succinctly and plainly, in justice to those by whom
he had been sent, and whom he represented; and
if' they should be dissatietied with his conduct, they
might instantly get rid of him. He should, how-
ever, consider the Irish Catholics as traitors to their
country, and acting dishonourably to themselves, if,
after what had taken place, they would consent, to
receive any concession short of full and uncondi-
tional emancipation. Ile considered emancipation,
with any securities that had hitherto been men-
tioned, a greater calamity than their present condi-
tion; and he should feel it his duty, however pain-
ful, if such a measure were proposed, not only to
abstain from being a party to it, but to get rid of
emancipation, securities, and alb"
With reference to these conflicting opinions, Mr..
O'Connell is recorded to have expressed his senti-
ments in the following words, in his speech which
appears in the Galignani of the 25th instant :
" nottAIia—CATHOLIC ASSOCIATION.
" A very nunagretts meeting of the Society took
place on Thursday ; John O'Connell, Esq. in the

chair.
" Mr. O'Connell, M.P., rose to propose the
thanks of the Association to Mr. Eneas Macdonnell,
for his fearless and uncompromising conduct upon
all occasions in which the interests of his country
were at stake, and particularly for his conduct at the
last meeting of the English Catholics. He also
begged leave to express his total dissent from the
Duke of Norfolk, and those of the Catholics who
were favourable to securities." .

do not wish to quote certain other expressions
which Mr. Connell employed upon that occasion„ in
support of his opinion ; nor should I have thought
myself justified in referring to this difference of opi-
nion between two persons, who each had a perfect
right to maintain whatever opinion he chose, had
not Mr. O'Connell availed himself, on that occa-
sion, of the authority of an opinion, to which he
appears to me not to have beer► in the slightest de-
g .ee entitled.
He says, in his speech already quoted in my first
letter, " That the best reply and admonition which
he can offer to the Duke of Norfolk and the security-
men in England, is the answer which the Pope had
given to the British Government." And he doea
not explain whether lie has quoted the whole of that
presumed answer, or only a part.
If there be a clear meaning, capable of being con-
veyed in language, it is here implied that a certain
answer, made by the Pope, the father of the Catho-
lic Church (as he is described by. Mr. O'Connell),
contained expressions of. admonition against any
Catholic, English or Irish, who might be prepared
to receive emancipation coupled with any security
whatever. Now, if this assertion or implication of
Mr. O'Connell remains unexplained, it will be be-
lieved, or at least it may be believed, that the Pope
bad pronounced an admonition, or at least was pre-
pared to pronounce one, upon this declared opinion
of the Doke of Norfolk. I do not doubt, nor haire
lever doubted for a moment, that the Pope; in the
event of any appeal being made to him, would be
prepared to object to any civil measure of emancipa-
tion, which should be accompanied with securities
trenching in the slightest degree upon the religious
faith of a Roman Catholic. But that he should
ever have pronounced an opinion against all propo-
sitions of emancipation, unless nneonditional—that
is, if accompanied by any security whatever—or
against those who were prepared to entertain such
propositions, is an assertion which 1 do not believe;
on the contrary, I believe this assertion, or impli-
cation, by Mr. O'Connell, to have originated from
that mistake which you have already corrected.
You are aware that I ion personally interested in
the elucidation of this point, as I have myself sug-
gested u security, not treoching,iii any respect, upon
the faith of a Roman Catholic, or in any incouve-
uient degree, upon the full sum of his civil rights;
while, at the game time, it was calculated specifi-
cally to obviate the main apprehension entertained
by Protestants, as the possible result of the removal
of Roman Catholic disahilities. If this opinion,
which Mr. O'Connell implies to be that of the Holy
See, be really so, it is clear that every attempt of
this nature to settle the question mast be more than
fret Hess.
I had considered myself as safe in the suggestise
of leis security on Catholic. grounds, under the au-
thority of Mr. Grattan, whaa.2 name will ever be
dear to Ireland, and who thus expressed himself in
the Imperial Parliament, is May, 1817
" With respect to safeguards, I think it is clapr
that there is no man, who when he procures rights
which he considers as inestimable, ,but ought to give
those securities which, while they do nor trench
upon the Catholic faith, afford stfength and security
a the Protestant religion,"
Jf Mr. Grattan had believed that these senti-
ments, so forcibly expressed by him, had been con-
trary, witch less in opposition, to those of the See of
Rome, he would have known that it was useless in
any practical point of view to have pronounced
them. I shall, ,therefore, repose with confidence
vpon these opinions of kir. Grattan, until I have

reason to believe that the Holy See (the only Ca-
tholic authority to whose commentary in proof of
such authority I should listen as a legislator) had
ever declared against them.
I hope I have succeeded in distinctly: brinking
before you th*9 poiuts upon which` I am desirous of
information, so us to enable you not .only tonsatisfy
my mind upon the subject, which is of little im-
portance, but also to satify the minds of millions,
who are watching with awful anxiety the course of
events I,vhieb have an influence upon the Catholic
question.
You will, however, be good enough to understand,
that I request .this information solely on account of
the introduction by Mr. O'Connell of the name and
authority of the Pope, in support of his own repro-
bation of the opinions of the Duke of Norfolk- For
I should say, that I have rarely met with any senti-
ments upon the subject of securities more satisfac-
torily expressed than those which Mr. O'Connell
himself entertains, as appears from another, part of
the' same speech. He says (vide Galignani, of the
25th of November :)--
" If any tangible proposition be offered for quiet-
ing the apprehensions of the most susceptible of my
Protestant countrymen, there is not one amongst
them who will be more ready to argue the question
with calmness and consideration-than myself."
I confess that there does not appear to me to be
any other meaning capable of being attached to this
phrase, than that of being ready to argue calmly and
considerately any proposition in the way of " seen-
.city," as it is popularly called, which does not trench
on the religion of the Catholics.
• I remain most faithfully yours,
The Right Rev. Dr. Baines; &c. -R. W. HORTON.

RAINJLS'S SECOND LETTER.
Rome, Dec. 17, 1828.

My dear Sir,—You seem to apprehend that the infer-
ences drawn by Mr: O'Connell, from the alleged answer of
the Pope to the supposed application of the British Go-
Vernment,.may create a belief in England, that the opinion
expressed by the Duke of Norfolk in the British Catholic
Association, on the 14th of November, had met with tl.e
disapprobatidn of his Holiness, and that asimilar disappro-
bation awaits all those .who may share the sentiments of
his Grace upon what are very vaguely and indefinitely
termed securities.

= With respect to the poiot
,of fact, I am perfectly con-
vinced that his Holiness has not pronounced in any way
upon
.the opinion of the Duke of Norfolk. Indeed, the
supposition of his having so pronounced, weans to rest
solely upon that of his having answered the British Go-
vernment, that he_would not treat upon the affairs of the
Irish 'Catholic church, " until the Catholics of Ireland
were emancip tted,"—a supposition which, I trust, I have
satisfied you is wholly unfounded.
I cannot persuade myself that Mr. O'Connell ever meant
to insinuate, that the disapprobation of the Pope was to
be apprehended by any one who merely thought, with the
Duke of Notfolk, that there was no obligation of rejecting
any measures of Government, merely because accompanied
with securities, before he knew what those securities were.
It is true that the term "securities" has hitherto almost in-
variably been employed, when speaking of the Catholic 'clues-
. tion, todesignate certain plans of vexatious if not mischievous
interference with the doctrines and discipline of the Catholic
church. Should the Duke of Norfolk pledge k imself to accept
of such securities, theta is no doubt he would deserve the dis-
approbation of his Holiness ; but the term securities surely
does not naturally nor necessarily imply a violation of
• Catholic principle, and therefore does not necessarily in-
volve the disapprobation of the church. Could arrange-
ments be nude (I speak merely hypothetically), which
leaving the Catholic Church wholly untouched, went
merely to allay the groundless apprehension of Protest-
ants, and to secure to the Established Church of England
the undisturbed possession of its rights and revenues, it
would be a most injurious libel upon the head of the Ca-
tholic Church, to insinuate that his disapprobation was to
be apprehended by any one who merely acquiesced in such
arrangements.
If, therefore, Mr. O'Connell is persuaded, as I presume
he is, that Catholic Emancipation can be carried without
even such secut sties, he is certainly right to oppose them :
for they are useless at beet, and convey an imputation upon.
the Catholic body which it does not deserve; bus, on the
other hand, if the Duke of Norfolk is of opinion that such
arrangements would forward emancipation, and thereby
aim idge the perils of the country : he may, no doubt, be
condemned by his fellow-subjects for an error in politics,
but as he is not guilty of any offence against religion, he
may ha wall assured that the Pope will be- the last person
to arraign his opinions. ,
I shall only arid, in reference to that part of your letter,
in which you allude to a certain plan of securities proposed
by Yourself, in the publication which you were so obliging
as to send me, that I have read that publication with great
interest; and though I do not consider myself at liberty
to decide how far your plan might be satisfactory to the
Brltiab ausl Jrish Catholics, in a political point of view, it
can hardly he ueeessary for the to remark, that there is
evidently nothing in its general outline which a Catholic
could object to as incompatible with his religion. Further
„marks on this subject 1 willl reserve to a future occasion ;
and, ia the mean time, I beg to subscribe myself, with
great egtittaii, your very obedient and faithful servaut,
I'. A. BAINES, Bishop of Siga.
The Right Hon. P. 4 Wilmot Horton, &c. &e.

MEETING OF THE INDCUNDENT BUR-
CMSSES OF COLCHESTER,

(From this Colchester Courier.)
On Monday the above emaual festival took place, pur-
ulent to public announcement, at tile Three Cups Hotel,
Colchester. The assembly room was au in which the
party dined, and soon after six o'clock allo,at three hun-
dred burgesses sat down to the excellent entertainment pre-.
pared for the occasion.
F. DANIELL, Esc': in the Chair. .
When the Chairman entered the room, he was aecons-
parried by D. ,W. Harvey, Esq. the worthy Representative
of the Borough, and several other gentlemen, amongst
whom we notieed the following : —Mr. Rouse, Mr. Dixon
Holmes, Mr. Warmingtan, Mr. Goode, Mr. Philbrick,
Jr.; Barber, Mr. Elliaden, Mr, Rlomfield, Mr. Alderman
Partridge, Mr.. David Wire, Mr. John V..,eorlall, Mr. Da-
niell, of nergholt, and Mr. Wade.
After the cloth was removed, the Cirmearaie peopnaed
as a toast " The Kiiig„ with three times three."
The toast was drunk arr..4t general cheering, while the
band played "God save the King, Sung, by Mr. Chaplin
—" The Kio, God bless him."
The CuArriatan, in rising to propose the tient toast,
said, that the British Constitution was so happily framed,
that whilst it preserved our loyalty, it tended to the happi-
ness of the people: he would therefore give f 5 The People,
the only true source of legitimate power."
Mr. Dixon Hao.alEs after descanting.on the services In
Parliament of Mr. Harvey, then observed that there was
one more subject which ha walled to mention, and be did so
with great delicacy, for it had neYW been touched upon at
any fiorner annual Meeting ; it was the Catholic Ques-
tion, (10,44 j;ies of hear, hear); their worthy repre4lita,
tive had never informed them of his opinion on that mo-
inentoua question, ae.-4 Its should have been glad if, on the
present occasion, it had not hula necessary to ask for it;
but such was the present state of public mind—such
the agitation it caused in the country—that 4 woold be
impoeeitele tinat the next Session of Parliament couln pray'
over without something being done. Much was the diver-
sity of opinion on the subject, and no doubt it was attend-
ed with many difficulties, aavJ there were many honest
prejudices to contend with, ;Rd he (Hr. Jj.) did not think
thong prejudices could be discussed in a meeting comnituted
like the pment ; lie therefore thought .(although he wish,
ed to hear the opiaziop of Air. Harvey upon the subject)
that their Representatiaie, ',4pr hearing the case coolly and
deliberately argued in tha House oi Commons, ought to be
left to the exercise of his own judgment; he ought not
to he shackled in the vote he thought it his duty 0
give, for lea was sure that vote, either for or against
the measure, tarnnid hp given with sincerity, and in-
fluenced solely 17 the evidence lYiej before Parliament; but
be need not say Mr. Harvey should ;ant le shackled, he
would not. He was an independent man, and waaid vote
nikstrah way ha thought right, and most conducive to the
welt*** a k,i; eountry. Mr. Holmes then read a resolu-
tion, which was rai en ho of his speech, and concluded thus.
With these feelings of genes aatigfaction at his public con-
duct, they forbear to express theirl.pioie4_4 KJ= the great
question which now agitates the public mind; laeauae
feel that the diversity of opinion which exists among timid.
selves, preciantes them from attempting to instruct their ex-
' cellent Representative. But trusting to his talents, his in-
tegrity, and his honour, they a./.4 rely on his judgment to
set and vote as tke evidence and the argau.-.7.1ts produced
may induce him, when the question conies hefor'e
ment. And they assure him, with the most pleasurable
sincerity, that they most ardently wish, and are determined
to preserve that unrestrained Con4da:nee in his talents and
integrity, which they have so long entertained.
KEN,nkr.r. saconded the resolution, which was re-
ceived with general acelantatipn.
The CIPPNAN then proposed •the,health of D. W.

. ._
Harvey, Esq. their werthye-Representative? .with three
times three. The toast was drunk arnidst the most RA-
thusiastic cheers, after which . .
Mr. HARVEY rose amidst continued cheering—jle had'
often, he said, experienced the kindness of his constituents
on occasions like they present, but never had he found it
' more indispensable to appeal to their kindness in giving
him "their indulgence for a short -time .(for. short it must:
be if measered by his strength) while he addressed a few
worts to them in connection with the resolution which
they had received, joined- as it was with his health, in a
manner such toccata., not fail to be most grateful to his
feelings.(Cheers.)—Advocates as they had always been,
and as they ever would remain of that which was termed,
although now almost exploded, Parliamentary Reform,
they would agree with him, that in no place could its ad-
vantages be better illustrated than in the borough of Col-
chester. One advantage which the friends of that mea-
sure would say would arise from its adoption would be,
thot of creating a more intimate and equal intercourse be-
tween the constituent body and their Representatives.
Now, if all the theoretical advantages of Annual Par-
liaments could possibly be realized, they could not even
then instil a more striking illustration of the benefits
of that measure 'than was shown by that which was
now enjoyed by the Burgesses of Colchester. From
the commencement of his connection with them, ex-
tending as it did over a great portion of their exist-
ence, and embracing as it did the spring-tide and the
noon-tide. of their. lives, it bad ever been his object to instil
into their minds the identity of the people with the re-
presentatives, and if an Act were passed to-morrow en-
joining Annual Parliaments, the annual intercourse which
would result could not be more strictly observed than it
I was then practically observed amongst themselves.-
- (Cheers. )—He could then truly say, that for his own part
he had never bent to any other power than that of the po •
pular sentiment. He was aware that it was called a 'dis-
organising principle, and a levelling doctrine to seek a re-
turn to Parliament by any other means than the power of
fortune and the influence of pride; but he disregarded the
assertions. He went to no official establishment to pur-
chase Burgesses by the heap—(Cheers and. laughter)—nor
had he attempted to reconcile great manufacturers to . in•
duce them to bring their creatures to the poll; no--s-but as
a freeman, he sought to become the representative only of
their free • choice.—(Cheers.)—He aline-sought that the
principles which thus guided his own conduct, might be
perpetuated when its founder should have been swept
away in the lapse of time ; and with that view he sug-
gested that a frequency of intercourse should be kept up
amongst themselves by means of distinct clubs, in nutubvre
sufficiently great to have the advantages of discussion, and
yet too small to adMit of tumult. Such clubs would be so
many local Parliaments, where the opinions which agiae4ed
tlie Senate might be canvassed, and limn whence the result
of their discussions might be communicated to their repre-
sentatives. The most refined system of republicanism
that had ever been, or that could be devised, could not stela
ge:t a more equitable or better mode ofeommunion between
the constitsenta and their representatives.—(Cheers.)
The present meeting was one of convenience; but it was
not without its power, as well as its utility; for at such a
meeting the kindred spirit of the associated clubs might be
expressed and communicated to the equally numerous clubs
of London ;. so that all might drink at the same fountain,
and make Colchester pre-eminent amidst the desolation of
corrupt boroughs, and to bold it .up as an example filr
imitation.—(COers.) It was the usual custom of repre-
sentatives (and its influence had once extended to Colches-
ter) to appear before their representatives a few days before
an election, and when they had settled all their arrange..
Imeats for the contest, the sum total of the burgesses in
their interest was cast up as so many numerals, and what-
I ever price was paid, was paid in the lump—(laughter and I
cheers)—so that they (lid not stand in the case of the bo-
rough of East Retford. It bad been alleged that he (Mr.
Harvey) would not come down on the present occasion but
with a view to his re-election, but such was not the case : he
had no occasion to dread an election—there was nothing aw-
ful in that sound to him. So long as he was guided by sound
principles, and so long as such principles continued to
he held in estimation by the Burgesses of Colchester, the
glittering display of parties who.might present themselves,
supported by wealth suspiciously obtained in remote coun-
tries, would be wholly unavailing. All he asked was, that
they would compare his conduct with their own principles,
and the inference must be in his favour; but if it should
so happen that the connection between them ever should be
severed, the disgrace and the regret should be their own.—
(Cheers.) He would not trespass so largely on their time
or on his own health, as to go over the various topical al-
luded to in the-resolution ; but he must explicitly declare,
that he was the first individual who had mentioned his de-
termination to bring in a substantial shape before the
House of Commons the degraded situation of the Dis-
senters. They might remember that, at their last trium-
phant meeting, he had pledged himself not to let the ap-
proaching Session pass away without doing so. He was,
however, envious of no man's fame ; he was, on the con-
trary, only anxious to imitate a good 'example ;• if time
thing was to be done, no matter by whom :. it was the
part of a prudent man to endeavour that it should be chine
in the best way possible, and he was quite content to be
an humble labourer in the vineyard.—(Cheers.)—lndeed
no man can be better qualified to ensure success to such a
measure, as well from his high connections and his high
station in society, as from his general urbanity and un-
questionable talent, than the Noble Lord under whose
auspices it passed. (Cheers.) It was, however, very fre-
quently found to be the case that the best measures, and the
most essential reforms—(hear,)—had their origin in re-
tirement, and were suggested by men who would have
blushed to find fame attached to their own offspring; but
in.the case of the Test and Corporation Acts, it would
have been more for the interest of party tactics to have de-
ferred the measure, though when it was found front his
(Mr. ll.'e) declared determination that no choice was left
upon the subject, they adopted the wisest course, and suc-
cessfully carried the measure through both Houses of Par-
liament. With respect to the Borough of East Retford,
he should only then say that the question was still before
the House of Commons, and that he never would give his
vote to increase the power of the aristocracy, and cripple
that of the people.—(Great cheers.)—East Retford, with
all its faults, was fay better than a close borough. If Lords
could regularly value and sell their boroughs for 5,000/.
each---so regularly that they were amongst the muni-
ments of the Nobility with their piece, if not in motley,
in that which was far worse than honest payment.
But while Lords were allowed to do this, why should
time poor be laid hold of? He could never allow that
a Nobleman should be allowed to sell his borough
for ,000/., while fifty men should be punished who
had taken 100 k for their votes.—(Loud cheers.)—
If time Government of time cOuntry? be it Whig or be it Tory,
and in his heart he believed them hell} to be evally sin-
cere, were desirous of abolishing such practices, let Owen
go efficiently to work. If no man should commit such
practices, de not lace the poor man, who had received five
guineas as the prtee of his vote, under the infliction of pu-
nishment ; but let each r,epreeentatiie ef the people, as he
PJXAS to the table to be worn, swear that imp leas not paid
for a vote, directly oe indirectly. Nor has be, by promise
or insinuation, had opt that a future consideration sreeld
be given. Then they 'eight bare limpet evidence of e
sincere reformation.—(Cheers.)—lf he were caideal ripen to
name the act of his life in which he took the greatest pride,
he eveelrl refer to the time when Mr. Stewart prOposed
a clause to tOJ Alrapt in the Bill for disfranchising East
Retford. That clause wee; moved in a full House :
there were not less than three hundred Tories anq t.,7, hun-
dred Whigs ; and yet the only man who could be found to
walk out of the House to say " Aye" to that resolution,
wee. the web whom they had thought fit to return to Par-
liamnent.—(Clutere.),-tend yet there were to be found
those to say, in excuse for their ewn feehlene9,3 of charac-
ter, that he (Mr. Harvey) was unmanogeatie--aiat ilk
acted with no party, and that he took a one-eyed view of
ti;iprl.—(Cheers and laughter.)—The fact was, that he
earel not 'frene which side of the House a proposition came.
He looked at every leteaeni:e. 1.l .t was proposed, and tried
them all by one standard. Ile asked hinasell l,e sece,:ioo—
how is this likely to serve or to prejudice the people '-'/..---
The man who acts upon this principle never can do wrong
for hit on4itaepte. Ile may not do right for himself, ex-
cept so far as waiting iime eepepeal of his own conscience
and the gratitude of his representatives ; bet bit' prier doe?
wrong for them. There was another subject which' his
worthy friend (Mr. Holmes) had alluded to with great de-
homey; hut, fur his own part, he knew of no delicacy
upon the subject, an?) i,imeee was no inhabitant of the bo-
rough of Colchester but sanest konsai that he leee
treated as
he ought to be, when be asked for the opopinionn 4 his 4,•-•
presentative, and got it fairly and candidly. There was no
domestic subject whatever which was so pregnant with just
'tear ape .eiLth honest alarm as that which was designated
the Catholic einCstien. ilis worthy friend had said that he
(Mr. Harvey) had never voters on• sitar g:lestion, but he
could assure them that that did not trite 'Yom inditterem,e
or a love of ease. During four long debates he had been
tt'e greatest stickler to his seat—he had listened to proscrs
Without 6;gereg, and to eloquence with delight. From the
commencement of these deists et six o'clock in the even-
ing, until their close at six time next morning, he had
never left his place ; so that whatever a Man could
gain by speeches, made by men of the greatest
minds, it had been his good fortune to obtain. Nei-
ther bad he been indifferent to literary productions upon