Star.
London, England, 1830-03-27 00:00:00

dotted other prospects and professions which they could not again
pursue, and that a fair compensation for the loss of those advantages
ought to be made. This was the case with Mr. Bathurst and Mr.
Dundas, who had abandoned the profession of the bar. The con.
missioners recommended that the cases of removal should be pro-
vided for by an allowance of two.thirds of the salary where the
service had been less than twenty years, and three-fourths where it
had been more. A smaller scale was fixed for the allowances
to subordinate officers, and upon that reduced scale the allow-
ances to these gentlemen were made. In granting that allowance,
the lords of the Treasury, in their answer to the Admiralty, re.
commended that the gentlemen should be appointed to the fint va-
cancies within the controul of the department from which they bad
been reduc.:d, so as to relieve the public as soon as possible frou;
the charge. Titus it was evident that the cases had been dealt with
by the treasury according to the rule► observed in former cases, and
he never would consent to the adoption of different principles ac-
cording to the rank of the parties.
Sir G. CLERK said that for the omission of the time of these
gentlerien's service in their respective offices he was the only person
to blame. The mistake had occurred by his not having accurately
tilled up the estimate before sending it to be printed.
Mr. C. WOOD said that this was the most extraordinary depar-
ture from the principles which ought to guide superannuations alit:
had ever come before the attention of the house. The committee
would not do its duty if it did not by its vote that night pronounce
ha utmost reprobation of such a system.
Colonel SIBTHORP condemned the case as one of a most fla-
gitious description, and contrasted it with the conduct of the govern-
ment in refusing a pension to an old sergeant, cn whose behalf lie
applied to them, after a service of upwards of thirty yaw. He
fully bdicved that these pensions would never have been granted
but for the family influence of ilia parties.
Mr. HOBHOUSE said, the Chancellor of the Exchequer might
have given more information respecting these objectionable appoint.
ments. It was unfortunate that the young gentlemen should stand i::
the situation they did, but it was also unfortunate for the country that
they should hold the pensions they did hold. He thought his Ma-
jesty's government had received liberal treatment from his side of the
house, and if the minister would cut away the support from under
them,he could only lament that confidence had been misplaced. These
appointments could not be defended ; the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer could not defend them. He thought he perceived a hlush on
the face of the right hon. secretary, arising front the inconsistency of
the ease. The question was, whether they should allow two cabinet
ministers to appoint their sons to office. He said nothing injuri.
ous to those gentlemen. He did not say that gentlemen of family
should not have their share of public employment and receive proper
emolument, but this was not such a case. Other meritorious indi-
viduals had been alluded to as enjoying superannuation allowances,
but not one could reasonably object to the provisions made for Cull.
ninghani and wheel. Those were useful men, entitled to the highest
praise; not one could object to the situation they held. The lion.
sentient= implored his majesty's ministers to consider whether
it would not he more creditable to themselves to leave this rote to
the free unbiassed opinion of the House. If the ministers could
reconcile to themselves to continue the allowance to these young
men, who had done nothing, it certainly would be a great fault.
lie asked the right hon. gentleman or.ce more whether he intended
to persevere in the motion. They had been charged with laughing
at the scion of a noble stock, who had adopted an honourable pro-
fession. but they did not laugh at those who had abandoned an ho-
noutable profession. All men had not talent for the bar, and it
they saw those who could not succeed as lawyers taking pensions
from the country in time of distress, they out at least to smile at
the transaction.

Sir G. CLERK begged to call the attention of the committee to
the question, whether there was any thing in the case of these two
gentlemen that they should not have extended to them the sante in-
dulgence which had been uniformly granted to others ? Many persons
hearing the hon. member for Westminster might suppo,e that these
gentlemen had been removed for some irregularity. It was found ncces.
eery to reduce the navy board, and those gentlemen were selected be.
cause they were junior members. If any of the senior 'timbers had
been removed, could any one say they would not have been entitled
to a retired allowance. The committee would FCC that the two
gentlemen had received no more indulgence than was bestowed upon
other individuals. This allowance was purely of temporary na-
ture—it was understood that those persons were to fill up the two
first vacancies in the navy. Ile really could see no valid ground for
objection to the allowance, when such allowances had been univer-
sally granted in similar cases.
Colonel DUNDAS rose to make a few observations in c
qtence of an allusion made by the hon. baronet which could not be
misunderstood. In describing the noble relative of one of the young
gentlemen as viceroy of Scotland, the hon. baronet should have ex.
plained his meaning. He knew not what the hon. baronet meant,
unless it was that the noble lord received the support of the country.
If that was the meaning, he himself had a right to be proud of the
honour of his relation. The monament erected to the noble lord
hi Scotland was proof of the estimation in which he was held in il.at
part of the United Kingdom.
Mr. MABERLY said the question was one which called for the
unbiased opinion of parliament. The Chancellor of the Exchequer
was not to controul the house upon such a subject. He would
contend that the house ought to deal with the question upon its
merits.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said that the hon. gentleman had stated
truly that it was a question for the House of Commons to consider
—it was an estimate, and if the House of Commons thought it
ought not to be granted, the government would do its duty in with-
drawing it. He assured the hon. gentleman, the member for %Vest-
cninster, that he should ever be proud of the independent support he
had received from all sides of the house. M ith respect to the
question before the house, the facts were these : - His majesty's go-
vernment were occupied in revising establishments, and among Odle:
the commissioners of the navy board. If his majesty's govern.
ment had been disposed to show favour, they might have coutinutal
these offices to the individuals; but the course pursued by his ma-
jesty's government was that by which they took away offices *on.
them, and instead of giving them 8001. and 1,0001. per annuli:.
they gave them four and rive hundred pounds until another depart.
ment could be ready for them. If they had been continued in office.
his majesty's government would have been open to censure. The prin.
ciple upon which the reduction took place was established when
Lord Liverpool was in office. A treasury minute, dated the 2nd
of February, 1825, gave the allowance of half their salary to
those who had been reduced, not having served ten years. This
was no job done for sons of cabinet ministers. The house
might think the allowance too large, but it was not a novelty, but 6
measure in accordance with the rule for granting retiring allow.
ances. The right honourable gentleman expressed a hope that he
had confined himself to the facts, without any intention to bias the
house in its decision. So far as the vote was concerned, he did not
know how it could be set:led by any other than the ordinary way.
He begged to add, that his Majesty's government had not been in-
fluenced by any improper motive in the granting of these allowances.
Lord ALTHORP said his opinion was that government were
not to displace efficient for less experienced officers. The question
was whether these pensions ought to have been granted ? His opt-
nion was that they should not have been granted, aud, therefore, it
was his intention to support the motion.
The question being loudly called for, the committee divided :
For Sir R. Heron's motion 139
Against it
Majority against ministers....
The estimates were consequently negatived and withdrawn.
The sum 99,0001. having been proposed to defray the expense in
the Dockyards for 1830,
Mr. HUME objected to the application of 25,0001. for building a
naval hospital for the sick of Malts- The hoc. gent. knew that
Malta was remarkable for splendid palaces, one of which might be
converted Into an hospital without expense to the public.
Sir 0. CLERK said the polices alluded to by the hon. member
for Aberdeen would not answer the purpose.
Mr. MABERLEY considered the estimate objectionable, and
declared his intention to take the sense of the-house.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said if the hon. member was determined to
divide the house, the vote bad better be taken some other day.
After WON further discussion, it was postponed.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM asked whether it was the intention of
his Majesty's ministers to go on with the navy estimates.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was hi,
intention to go on with the navy estimates, and take the ordnance
when the navy were concluded.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM then gave notice that it was his inten-
tion, when they tame to the ordnance estimates, to move the aboli-
tion of the office of lieutanant-general of the oednanee.
The Crag having reported progress, the house resumed.
and the report was ordered to be received on Monday.
Mr. MABERLY moved that there be laid before the house a
ttopy of corespondent:4i reladng to the new hospital at Malta.—.
• The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House
adjourned at One o'Clock.
of

Both Houses of Parliament adjourn for the Easteror
Holiday, on Thursday the Bth of April, and are expected to
amenible on Monday the 19th, or Tuesday the 110th.
Aocounts are in town of the safe arrival of the Mar-
quis PALMILLA at Terceira, although the wand had been bloat.
aged by a strong Portuguese squadron. -
woPoosToreTTrooo.u—biltOoutX
RoT
ocClshTeTpodimosolot
tolyCotrproccodinprrry OF
yestaday,:we were unable to state the mos at the Member who
milrocated *the prayer of the petition pesionted by Sir Tamara
Writurnerox. We Ind that it was supported by Mr. Roam
sou, the Member for Worcester.
Prince Litman had a Grand dinner Party yesterday.
at Ashbumbem House, Defer.itralt.