The Sun.
London, England, 1845-06-17 00:00:00

TILE STIN, LO'NDON, Y.T-TESDAIr

the subject before the House at the earlieit'_ possille tame.
The hardship of this case was that the a,!verse decision of the
Committee did not ari-e from any denA•its in the measure
it-elf, but from ti:e tact of a clerical error—an error that had
escaped the notice of the original promo ers of the
Bill and also the Standing Orders Committee, and
which was not detected till the Bill was brouuld
under the cons derat ion of the present Committee
of Inqu;ry. the Committee, though they did not consider
the error as fatal to the merits of the measure, were ,ieverthele,s
bound to take notice of it, and re. ort in the manner they had
dune. This was a case of special and peculiar character, aid
called for the interference of the House. He . did not

call upon the House in dealing with the; case to
reverse the decision of the Committee, but to
grant further powers of inquiry to the Committee. As regarded
the power he proposed to vest in the Committee, he did not be-
lieve it would be exercised prejudicially either towards the par-
ties interested in the measure or the public. The powers he
prop :sed they should exercise were there which had been
exercised on several occasions by the standing Orders Com-
mittee. He could state.a few cases in which that Committee
had allowed the sections and the datum line to be corrected.

There was a case during last session in which an error similar
to the one in the present Bill was allowed to be corrected in a
branch of the Sheffield and Huddersfield Railway. In chis
present year the had been eight eases in which corrections had
been made. Of these he might in-sauce the Wakefield, Fontefract,
mid Goole, the Cornwall, the North Wales, and the Urightou
and Chichester Railway Bills. Ile saw no reason why a
power which had been exercised in these several instaimes
might not with perfect safety be extended to the present Com-
mittee. The merits of the competing lines was not the ques-
tion at present, but it was, whether it would not be julmous
and proper to extend, in this special arid important case, thu e
powers of reconsideration which had been exercised by the
Committee on Standing' Orders. Wei e this done, he was sure
the power would not be abused.

Viscount COURTEN AY said he was anxious to state a few
words before the House gave its decision. He might state
that the facts set forth in the petition were correctly
stated. It was true that an error was discovered in the Com.,
mittee in investigating the engineering evidence, but he was
forced to say it was merely a clerical error, and did not at all
affect the main features of the Bill. The interests of the land-
lords on the line were not prejudicially affected by the error to
which he had referred.
ESTCOURT said that it had been decided that cer-
tain notices should be given to that Houso and sections of
hoes lodged preparatory to the investigations of the Standing
Orders' Committee. It was also required that the
datum line should be marked. This had been
departed from inn the present instance. If the
error was a clerical error, they had had plenty of time to
correct it, and he did not think there should be any depar-
ture from the rules of the House in the present iustaace.
0, her parties had been called upon to comply
with the standing orders, and had been successfully
paying proper attention to the getting up of their sections and
their specifications, and if any mistake had occurred, they were
themselves to blame for it, as it had been occasioned by their
own neglect.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUET2 said he
thought it was a case i❑ which the House ought to interfere.
Statements had been made which showed that the error was
merely a clerical error, and did not affect the merits
of 'the Bill. As a great measure was involved
he did not think an error of this kind ought to interfere with
its progress. He should support the motion of his Hon.
Friend.

Lord G. SOMERSET was opposed to the motion. If
any re-investigation was to be made, the Bill should be
:eferred again to the Standing Orders' Committee.
Mr. W. PATTEN thoaght that if it was consistent with
the rules of the House it would be better to refer the matter to
the Standing Orders' Committee. He would rather support an
amendment of that sart than the motion of his Hon. Friend.
He would, however, wish to have the opinion of the Right
Hon. Gentleman in the chair on the subject
The SPEAKER said he did not think it would be eon.
sistent with the standing orders for the House to adopt the
suggestion of the Hun. Member for Cheshire.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the motion
Against it

77
... 118

Majority against the motion. -41
RUNCORN AND PR t..S I'ON RAILWAY.

The second ,eading of the Runcorn and Preston Brook Rail-
way Bill was agreed to, upon the motion of an Hon. Member,
whose name we could not learn.

LONDONDERRY AND COLERAINE RAILWAY.
Lord SANDON moved the ,iecond reading of the London
and Coleraine, Railway Bill, which i.va.sagreed.to,

BROAD AND NARROW GAUGE.

Sir GEORGE GREY said that, as there was a great deal
of anxiety felt by the public abroad, as to the time when this
House would take up the consideration of the very important
question of the broad and narrow gauge, he would wish to know
whether it was the intention of the House to take it up to-
inwrow?

Mr. :.RAMSTON said it was a question of great eon-
sequence, ana therefore he would propose that it be taken up
on 'I hursday.
After a few words from Hon. Members-on both sides of the
House, it was agreed upon to take up the subject on Friday.
The Agricultural and Commercial Bank of Ireland Bill was
read a third time.
SCOTCH BANKING BILL.

Mr. HUME presented several petitions on the subject of
the Scotch Banking Bill, but amidst the confusion which pre-
vailed we could not collect the import.
A great number of petitions, relating to railway and other
private Bills, were also presented in a state of the House which
rendered it impossible to distinguish them.
BRIDGE OVER THE SEVERN.

Mr. ROEBUCK here rose and was on the point of ad-
iressing the House, amid the most intense silence, when
Captain BERKELEY said he wished to ask his Hon.
Friend opposite, the secretary to the Admiralty, if the bridge
over the Severn, which had already been objected to by the
Board of Admiralty, as calculated to obstruct the naviga-
tion of that river, would be allowed to be erected ?

.Jr. CURRIE ( who, from the excessive noise in the House,
was almost wholly inaudible) was understood to say that mea-
sures would be taken to prevent any interference with the in-
terests of the public by the contemplated construction.
Mr. HUME observed, that by a rule of that House, no
Bill which was objected to by the Admiralty, could pass with-
out the sanction of that Board. He believed, however, that
when the Bill in question was opposed by the Admiralty,
their objection was contravened in consequence of
their not appearing in person or by counsel before the Com-
mittee; he wished to inquire whether the letter from the Ad-
miralty prohibiting its erection, was not sufficient to prevent the
passing of the Bill.
Mr. BECKETT was understood to say, as Chairman of the
Committee before whom the Bill was heard, that no appear-
ance being made, the preamble of the Bill was declared proved.
Mr. HUME said be hoped the question would not rest there
because it was a matter of very great importance. The clause
had been introduced to remedy great inconvenience, and if the
subject were properly understood the Bill would not be allowed
to Vass.

Sir ROBERT INGLIS wished to ask a question of the
Under Secretary for the Colonies, viz., whether the represen-
tatives of her Majesty's Government in Ceylon }Ltd paid
honours, or in any way countenanced idolatrous worship in the
island of Ceylon.
Mr. HOPE in a few words replied that no such countenance
had been given to such worship. The Government offi-
cers had given directions to discountenance the idolatrous cere-
monies referred to.

Sir ROBERT INGLIS was satisfied with the explanation.
An HON. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, put a
question to the Secretary for the Colonies, whether he had
seen an edict issued at Hong-Kong, for the suppression of
Secret Societies there, awarding a sentence of three
years' imprisonment and hard labour, and branding on
the right cheek, after the manner of deserters
The following remarkable words concluded the edict, that if
any member of that society should be slain by the people in any
disturbance, no inquiries should take place as to the manner in
which the death of the individual had been occasioned.
Mr. HOPE was aware that such a society existed as that
mentioned by the Hon. Member. It was a society consisting
of a considerable Lumber of persons, who were all bound so-
lemnly by oath to obey the directions, whatever they might
be, of one person, whom they regarded as the head of their
establishinent. The society was a band of robbers and assassins,
and was a terror to all well-disposed Chinese, upon whom the
confederacy were in the habit of levying a species of black mail,
for the preset vation and protection of their lives and property.
It was also true, that the members of this society possessed
power to brand on the cheeks any persons who withdrew from
their association, but it was not correct to say that the punish-
ment of deserters in the royal army consisted of a visible brand
on the cheek—it was only a secret mark, by which they might
be ident lied on inspection. In all the jurisdiction of the
Tryad Society over the Chinese subjects their powers were re-
ported to have been supreme, and no notice would at present be
taken with respect to the power they possesed.
CHALLENGE TO MR. ROEBUCK.

Mr. ROEBUCK rose and said he had a very important
matter to bring forward with regard to a question of the privi-
leges of that House. He would w:sh to call the attention of
the House to a letter which he had received on Saturday last.
A carriage drove up to his door, and a person having knocked
at the door, the letter which he held in his hand was
left at his house. The letter was addressed to him
personally, and was dated from the Reform Club, The letter
was to this effect, that the writer wished to know if he (Mr.
Roebuck) had used these words as reported in the Morning
Chronicle, or words to that effect. Here the Hon. Member
',all the passage as enclosed by the writer of the letter, the
substance of which was, that he (Mr. Roebuck) had said that
the parties to whom he had al.uded, under the peouliar cir-
cumstances, deserved very little respect for their position or
their intellect. The writer then went en to say that if he
(Mr. Roebuck) used those words, the insult to him, the writer,
was plain. His second question, then, was, was he (Mr. Roe-
buck) prepared to justify them? He (the writer) presumed
that he (Mr. Roebuck) was too well read in the history of
chivalry to misinterpret the meaning of this word, which the
writer had underlined three times.—( Loud laughter.)
Sir V. BLAKE rose to order. He was ready to admit that
the Hon. Member (Mr. Roebuck) had an undoubted right to
express his opinions in the House, upon any measure brought
before it, but he had not a right to catechise or to lecture apy
Hon. Member who—(Loud cries of ‘f Order, order.")
The SPEAKER said that the interruption of the lion.
Baronet was most irregular.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.)
Mr ROEBUCK then proceeded to read the conclusion of
the letter, which was that the writer enplowl thp Murning
Chronicle, and had marked the passage. In answer to that
letter he had written what he would now read, and which he
delivered himself. The Hon. Member then read his answer,
which was to the effeet that he would answer the Hon. Mem-
ber's letter in his place in the House of Cninrnons ; that the
House should not be coerced in his person--,-(Cheers)—and
that he would take the proper means of punishing such threats.
Cheers.) He cone;uded by expressing a hope that the writer
of tiae PhAllepee was suMciently read in the law of his country,
not to nnsinterprei Copat lagghter pc! chprrg.) Sit,
I win now about first to move that the letter be read by the
clerk at the table.—(Cheers, and laughter.)
The SPEAKER asked whether the Hon. Member for
Sligo was in his place?

•"• . ,
AO. . flop in hip planes Pl 4 11P.We4 lq tho Speaker.
The Clerk at the table then read the letter at length, alter
which,

Mr. ROEBUCK said, Sir, I am exceedingly sorry to
be obliged to adopt the course which I fi el it my cliAtA tR
sue. I feel it, however, a pararlioipt duty—not as regards
topelf, buF ay regarils the privileges of this House—to make
the following motion, "'That J. P. Somers, Esq., having
sent a challenge to a Member, for words spoken in this
House, is guilty of a contempt and breach of nrivilrzp
reasons for taking this coFze 1 tiba4l state' I's 'alency and
shortly as 1 cap. If' it'wer6 a question that regarded only
my elt, the law would have afforded me instant protection,
and 1 would be quite prepared to throw myself, in such a case,
on the law's authority. But this Is not rp;tte;• in wi,ich i
am concerned. It is the House that is concerned—and the
privileges of the Members—and the most valuable
of those privileges is the free expression of their opinions as to
the conduct of public men. Under these circumstance; I
claim the right of availing myself of the privileges of the House,
certain as lam that 1 myself have corfirrtitt.sil p broi•:0 pf iti
privileges. 1 thought peoper to refer to-tile superiority in intel •
lea of some of the Hon. Members in this House, and I have
received in consequence a letter sugge,ting that an Hon. Mem-
ber should be allowed to shoot at me.•—( Laughter and cheers.)
I do not think that that shows any superiority or that it proves
any superiority of the intellect. I throw aside all ether e9si7

MORNING, JUNE 1/0 J 845.

, es I feel as aM, mf
deratiot, ,thinner whet,. ' .er of this House that lam aeting ) Hr. ROEBUCK said he had been accused of using 'an-
in a intolyr 4.j...•.:0.,„i1', A pursue this con, se, anal,
thereiot e, gua.ge unfit to be head in the Hunters, and he thought the Hon.
assuming that • eotaree •/- ' will eioL deny mY right: todlo so, t Gentleman
.ought to be called upon to retract those expres-
I shall move the, ~. ''.!' .iich has already been received by ! sions.--e( Cries of " No. no," and " Hear, hear," and great
• the Hou.e., I contusion, in the midst of which),
Lord AsHr,EY said, I rise with great satisfaction to second. Mr. TURNER ruse, but not one word the Hon. Member
this motion with the n 1;5 : heartfelt thanks, not only for my- said reach,' us.
self, hui also or, I if. xi convinced, a great majority of the Lord J. MANNERS was understood to express a hope that
Members in this House, ; nd of right-minded persons through- the House would not call upon the Hon. Member for
ern the courar—the it A inks of these persons who look with Limericic to retract the language he had used.
alarm at any' breech isf the privileges of this House. 'file Mr. SAIFI'II O'BRIEN rose, evidently labouring under
ini.n 'go far to es' .ab dish not only a social, but a v-
concededry great excitement, and said that which had been to
gre'atci'slinistitutional pnivl 'ge. I can foresee, Sir, the time the Hon and Learned Member for Bath had been denied to
when, if this sys,em vv.nic 't , the Hon. and Learned tlembec for him. He had used most offensive language towards him, and
Bath has called our attenti o.n to, was introduced into this House, had nut retracted a single offensive expression which he had
and into a deliberative as sernbly—l can Fee the time when used towards him in the debate on Friday night. Was that
liberty of speech would 1 ir. a t on end, and whrn we should so or not ?
meet here as our rinoestor s me' here, not for the exhibition of The lion. Member sat down, expecting an answer from the
reason, but for violence :it.d to the sword.— (Che..rs). In Hon. and Learned Member for Bath, but the Hon. and Learned
seconding this motion, Ih. re:, we, Sir, I tender to the Honour.. aentieinan. assuming a particularly derisive look, turned his
able and Learned Memiseo• for t3ath, in my own name and in back to the Hon. 3lornber, and did not stand up. There-
the name of many gent' er ten of England, and as I said be- Lyon.
fore, in the siarnii of thot isands of his fellox subjects. Ido Mr. SMITH O'I3II.IEN said the position in which I stand
sender to Mos :ny most sin sere the talks for the manly, the coo- before thi., country is this, that I have been insulted, and the
rageous, and the constitr Atonal c nurse which he has taken.— Hun. anti Learned Member for Bath. winos, offensive ex-
( Loud cheers). pressions still remains unretracted and unexplained—( Order)
Mr SO.MERS there rose and said—Sir, seeing the feeling The SPEAKER—If the Hon. and Learned Member for
of the House, I have no hesitatiiin whatever in withdrawing Bath had made use of language of an unpirliamentary oho-
that letter wnieli he I..aa read. It was merely a letter of in- racier, it would have been my duty to call him to order._
quiry. —( Great laughter). The Honourable and Learned ( Hear, hear.) It did not appear to me that the lenguage
.it ember fer Bath d, d. not condescend to answer these in- used by the lion. and Learned Gentleman in the debate on
quirks. Ido riot call an question his motives for 1,01 doing- Friday night teas unparliamentary, and therefore I did not call
so. I tam here. Sir.. in the hands of tale Hoag, and I bow him to order. No Hon. Member, on that occasion, call, d the
with unaffected defer ence to the decision of the House. I lion. and Learned Gentleman to order, or in any nay signified
am lade incatted ten play with the authority of the Howe, that he was using language of an unparliamentary character.—
The sense of the Sieaker is paramount on all occasions. and ( Hear, hear.) I cannot, therefore, admit that either then, or
the sense of the II ruse I conceive is on all oceasems para. on the present oceasion, the Hon. Member for Bath used un.
mount. I certainly de deeply regret this matter. —( Loud parliamentary language.—(hear, hear.)
cheers). Ido deeply regret, that any matter so personal to Sir 11. W. BARRON—When language, said to he of an
myself should haee oce,vpied the attention of (he House for offensive character to Hoe. Members of this Helve, *as used
one moment. —( Cheer s). If the Honourable and Learned by the Hon. Member fur Co: 1: (Mr. O'Connell)— i
Member for Bath is satisfied with this explanation I trust the Just at
,this moment ,Ir. O'Connell himself entered the
House will be satisfied.. I think I can add nothing to what House, amid loud cheering and waving of hats from lion.
I have said. 1 trust, bowever, that the House will bear with Members on the Opposition side of the House, am! derisive
me for one moment.. while I call the attention of the Honour- laughter from the Ministerial benches. Mr. Brotherton, Al-
able arid Learned Member for Bath to the observations which he etennan Humphryes, Mr. Hawes, Mr. Roche, and others came
frequently makes. am ethe gross imputations which he occesionally over and shook hands with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman,
casts upon certain :ilembers of this House. I will take the as soon as he took his seat. There was great excitement for a
liberty of sayingthat the Hon. Gentleman's observations do not moment, or rather the excitement which previously existed
always cerrespend with—(Here the Hon. Gentleman hesi- was increased. The Hon. and Learned Member seemed in
tated for a moment) —I must take the liberty of saying it—do excellent health and spirits, and laughed heartily, apparently
not always correspond' with the truth so as to entitle him to at the coincidence of his name being mentioned just as he en-
permanent respect. IT beg to apologise to the Howe generally tered. Soon after Mr. S. O'Brien went over to the lion.
for intruding on its attention. and for being the cause of en- Member, who shook his hand warmly.
Sir H. BARRON went on to say that when Mr. O'Con-
croaching se considerebly on its time.—( Loud cheers.)
Sir. G. GREY assured the House that he felt deeply for tell had used offensive language to Members of that House,
the Hon. Me-nhee who had last addressed the House,—_ Hon. Gentlemen opposite took a very different course from
(Cheers.) He understood him to say, at the commencement that which they now pursued. The lion. Member for the
pursued, Aembe ofr s using
o f lans
that
s
of his explanation, that be retracted the letter which had been University of Oxford told the Hon. and Learned Member fur
the origin of the present di-cussion; a rnoresat satisfactory
he gunge line
2ge of a;
Cork, on thatl offensive
occasion, that he
charactershould be
towards cautiousconduct,oitioui,iri,t h
, ceoudlotrlong rot
his duty
he
urusuott.d deprecate the practice House ; but the Hon. Gentleman had not given that es orlon to, still heconfessed
too often adopted of resenting supposed injuries. He thought the Hon. and Learned Member far Bath, which would be quite
the course adopted by the Horn. Member for Bath was the as welt placed; for it was notorious that the Right Hon. and
only one consistent with his dory to the House and to himself Learned Gentleman was in the constant habit of using Offen-
which he could have pursued ; and he at the same time hoped sive anddictatorial language towards Hon. Members.—(Order.)
that this, the second example presented to and by that Hon. The SPEAKER interfered, upon which
Member, would teach others to value a similar course, while Sir H. W. BARRON explained. He meant no personal
it w.erned himself to be more regardful of the feelings of others. offence. What he meant to say was, that an Hon. Member
—( Loud cheers.) He agreed with all that had been said by who used such language as the. Hon. and Learned Member for
him against the immoral and unchristian practice of duelling; Bath, ought not to be so choice about the language ued by
coo
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not to give or accept a hostile measure, instead of yielding to n
extended to the unwarrantable course he pursued on Friday
e
but his approval was limited to that one sentiment, and was not
night. While lion. Gentlemen made it a point of conscience
the feelings of indignation or resentment, they should at the of the House had been vindicated, and regretted that the Noble
same time be pirtieelarly sedulous of preserving the language Lord (Lord Howick) was resolved upon pressing his motion.
of gentlemen.--( Reiterated cheers.) He did not wish to give The Right Hon. Baronet instanced the case of Mr. T. Hope,
offence to the lion. Member for Bath, but he only felt he was now the Lord Justice Clerk, who had acted in a similar manner
doing his duty in reminding him that there was a tone and as the Hon. Member for Sligo, and whose apology was accepted
a gesture calculated to give offence.—( Prolonged cheer- by the House.
ing.) He heard his speech on Friday last with that After a few words from Lord SANDON and Sir V. BLAKE,
attention which the addresses of the Learned Gentleman inva. the resolution expressive of the approbation of the House at
riably demanded, but he felt at the time that it was calculated the course pursued by the Hon. and Learned Member for
to produce needless irritation. Truth might be spoken with Bath, and condemnatory of that taken by the Hon. Member
plainness and with honesty without wounding feelings or pro- for Sligo, and also the amendment expressive of the satisfaction
clueing offence. Such, however, was not the tone usually of the House at the apology of the Hon. Member for 'Sligo,
adopted by the Member for Bath ; it was net the tone adopted were put and carried.
on Friday last; and while he deprecated it he could scarcely The subject then dropped.
wonder at the emotion of feeling on the part of the Hoo. Mem- Mr. OSBORNE asked whether the Right Hon. Baronet the
ber for .Sligo.—( Cheers.) Secretary of State for the Home Department would bring on
Sir R. PEEL, observed that the Hon. Member for Bath the Academical Education question, in case the hour at
had taken a course consistent with true courage, at the same which the Irish Banking question concluded was late.
time heeeillingly admitted that the Hon. Member for Sligo had Sir J. GRAHAM said he would not pledge himself to the
made every reparation in his power.—(Cheers.) He bad House, buto would not certainly bring up the report on the
ret , acted the letter which Lad given cause to the present un- Academical Education question at a very late hour.
fortunate discussion, he had regretted the hasty course he haul ANNUITY TO SIR H. POTTINGER.
adopted, and had apologised to the House. A more complete Sir R. PEEL said that he believed that the unanimous
reparation could not possibly have been insde by any man.— feeling of the public, the appreciation of theconduct,character,
(Loud cheers.) At the saute time he thought, as the Bon. and public services of Sir Henry Pottinger were such, that
Member had made the fullest reparation in hit power, that the independent of the personal question of merits which were
Hon. and Learned Gentleman should be satisfied with the ex- universally acknowledged, his claims upon the gratitude of
planation which had been made. his country were equaliy well appreciated. He proposed that
Mr. B. ROCH .s did not rise for the purpose of prolong- the great services which Sir Henry Pottinger had rendered to
ing this unpleasant discussion. They had entered into it with his country should be remunerated with a pensiou of 1,5001.
unwillingness. He thought his Hon. Friend (Mr. Somers) per annum, commencing from the date on which Sir Henry ,
had given all the reparation in his power. lie could not, how- Pottinger was to resign his cull pay as her Majesty's Plenipo-
ever, sit down without remarking that it would be very tenniary. He proposed that that pension should continue ab-
weßif the Hon. and Learned Member did not use such severe solutely for life. He proposed to grant this pension as a mark
language, anti if the [louse would, by a strong intimation, show of public acknowledgment for past services, and though future
that it was determined to discountenance all such attacks.— events should again render it necessary to employ Sir Henry
(Hear, hear.) It caused irritation and excitement not only Puttinger again in public affairs, he trusted that the feeling of
in that House but out of doors, and the repetition of such lan- the country would be that he had sufficiently merited the gra-
guage was by 110 means calculated to raise the character titude of his country.
of that House in the opinion of the public. A pledge had Mr. WILLIAMS had no wish to undervalue the services of
been given to the House of withdrawing the offensive words, Sir Henry Pottinger, but he mast say, that when he looked to
but he considered the Hon, and Learned Member for Bath the extent of those services, which were brought to a conclu-
would not be justified in withdrawing his motion. sion creditable to himself and beneficial to his country—when
Lord 110 Ne ICR agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet that he looked to the nature of these services, he was willing to go as
the matter should not be withdrawn, in consequence of the full far as any Hon. Member in that House, but he did not think
and ample apology tendered by the Hon. Member for Sligo. If that he alone should be remembered, while the services of
the matter were withdrawn it would appear on their minutes that others were nearly forgotten. He believed that the naval and
a Member of Parliament was justified in sending a hostile mes- scientific services of Sir William Parker could not well be ex-
sage to another Member for expressions employed in that ceeded, and yet that Gallant Admiral had only received a pen-
House on public business. He was not prepared to consent to sion of 300/.• per annum ; anti this, be it remembered, not for
the withdrawal of the motion. He considered that the motion a particular service, but for the greater portion of fifty year,,
liming been confirmed, the next course non dbe to form a the most part of which time he had been at sea. Sir Hugh
second resolution, to the effect, that alter the full and ample Gough, also, the Commander-in-Chief of the army, had riot
apology of the Hon. Member for Sligo, the House would not been pensioned in an equal degree for his public services ; and
take any further notice of the matter. it nought be established as a nangerous precedent, if every
Lord PALMERSTON submitted that, in his opinion, a public servant was to come down to the House, and for the
resolution pointing out a single individual would necessarily services he might have rendered in two years receive a pension
imply some opinion on the part of the House that blame and like the present.
censure had been incurred by that particular person named in Sir G. STAUNTON, while giving all credit to the services
that resolution. It appeared to him that the apology which of the army and navy, thought that the very important nego.
had been made to the House by the Hon. Member for Sligo nation which had been effected by Sir Henry Pottinger
was a sufficient amendment on his part to restrain the House ought not to be overlooked, and he certainly did not think
from any further proceedings. It further appeared to him that the degree of gratitude which the Government
_,ortaswdaiss-a
that the objections of his Noble Friend might be fully answered posed to show was disproportioned to his services. He c°-
byt
permitting the proposed resolution to he withdrawn, and to sidered, also, that the appointment of his succesee- •""
have, as a substitute, a general resolution, to the effect most valuable one, and he, as one Member ee-
p een
soi
of n thinto Right
ir HHe Hon.
what that it was a breach of the Parliamentary privileges of the would most willingly support the metioe et that House,
House, for any Member to take notice by a hostile message of Baronet.
.piartidaisa acmomerpeanmya,rakridofththeesepeoucina-1
what had pissed from any Member in that House. He quite Sir R. PEEL saidfbhttoohhaieitolautkhreedt
pursuedmb pr fo
inr
try's gratitude
twudaes
fnooro services
aßgartehettliest,, with,
eodthtehreir Hun.tha neklsemfutisre rsthteh irttoutrhsee
E.rendered_ in China. That gentleman
of such had left the service o
ff.a
edAelte
challeegee vi as to strike a blow at the constitutienal functions and peculiar serviees rendered to his country were not
of Parl,ament. There were many Hon. Members who if simitarlv only to be leoked
bringing the matter bsfore the House. Thite!eon(h.
te—the ha(ci
treated, might have been thriven to the destruction of them- tainted )ay bein-
g taken 011Yt, of the 0_ taOs look to the loss he had sus-
E t India Company's service.
selves and to the injury of their families. He thought that the The Government did not fo-
,. , get the services of the army anti navy,
House ought nut to try the lion. Member (Mr, Roebuck) with but these were pee:war services, and should be equitably
respect to his speech the other night. He (Lord Palinerston) rewarded.
wished to show the tine courage of his lion. Friend in coming Lord PALAIERST .
ON did not recommend that this vote
forward in the way in which he did. There was many an shoeld not be a precedent in any similar eases. He should be
Hon. Member in that House whose courage had not been tried, delighted
if
it were to be considered on and that it would
who had not been putt in a situation like his Hon. Friend, and lead them to re '
e,
ward in an equally liberal manner services of
who could not come forward arid throw himself on the House) sender importance. It had besaid Member
been by an Hon, . .
to vindicate not hanselt alone, bra the privileges of the Hoese, that the services of the a
He thought the remarks of the Hon. learoeet i I
Ill,alttaced, tion which resulted in China.yr aruHneave had led to the
(Lordnegotia-
Paimerston) did not
arid truly inapplicable on this occasion, Ho wished to know deny the services of the andstoy but this did not in the
whether this was a breach of privilege, and if it smallest degree injure theal character navioie .
which Sir
to ohist those services .
were, what should be the way of dealing with it. The Hon. Henry Pottiii.er had renderedHe entirely
ccountry.. . .
Member, in the commencement of his address, made every re- agreed with the Right le
on. Baronet as to the principles which
preen' it was possible for mast to do. It was not a question should regulate the choice of • persons for responsible situa-
inFriend (Mr. • •
which his HOD. - dons. He knew that it was impossible Ministers could be in-
terned, it was a question of the privilege of the OtMe, If his thence(' by party or personal considerations. It must be the
Hon. Friend was sorry he ought to have town set right on object of official men to appoint to confidential employments
Friday, and they then ought to hive tried hint for his impru- the most able and the fittest persons, without regarding what
denee, and for the manner in which he expressed his opinion might please any individual.—( Hear, hear.) And the
Minis-
on that subject. Had ho not been held up in a way in which tors had done themselves great credit by the appointment ofSir
the characters of others had riot been ; and was the Hon. Henry Pottinger. —( Hear, hear.) He would say again that
Baronet to lay down a rube as to how he was to express his he felt the greatest pleasure in supporting this grant which
feelings in that House. If they were to oonduot themselves would carry out the decided wish of the House of Commons
peaceably and quietly they should above all have freedom of who shared the responsibility in this case with the Govern-
opinion, and every man should be allowed to express his feeling ment.—( Hear, hear. )
of
erston the injury he ieceived, end if he acted wrong he (Lord Pal)
honed that they would call him to order. They were only of the House of Commons, 'out of the who 1
e country.—
not now to try tie Hen. Member for Bath, when the qeestion (Hear, hear.) He believed, from all that he had heard, that
was as to the conduct of another Hon. Gentleman. He thought such was the feeling of all the leading h o men in manufacturing
that his Hon. Friend deserved the therike of every gentleman and conitnerenal Concern —(
sHear, ear)—with the single ex-
in the House,
ceptien of his Hun. Friend (Mr. Williams)- h 'd h
o sal tbat t e
Sir R. INGLIS thanked his on. Friend for the Christian pension might have been avoided. 'N
' '
"
No man had ever been
manner in wheal) he seconded the motion. lie observed a more adverse than he (Mr. Hume) to unnecessary pensions.—
strong anticee opinion on both sides of the Eleuie, that, (Hear, hear.) But he had never expressed arty other opinion
if it shou be the pleasure of this House that the motion be than this, that although
withdrawn, the Honourable Member on the other side of the the power 1 •
House should express his regret. He hoped he would not be had alwa o! granting prodigal and unmerited pensions, yet he
that whenever it was proposed to give a pension
naistinderstoadeenaitiely, that he should apologise to the House, to a ma? who deserved it, he would support such a grant—
and to the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath, and exprese his (Hear h
, ear)—and such was the present case.—( Hear, hear.)
regret that the letter in question had been sent, Less titan that fe•
is Hon. Friend said that Sir Henry Pottinger had done no
would not satisfy the House,- or secere to soy Member of the more than his duty, and had received his salary for that duty.
House, as well as to the }inn, Winker for Bath that privilee Now he (Mr. Hume) would say that if the negociattons had
which he (Sir lis Inglis) regeeded the most essential of all their been frustrated, and the salary had been paid for ten or a
peieilegasee.ermsiely, the free expression of opinion in th t dozen years, the argument would have some force. But the
House.—( Hear.) He entreated of the House to attend to tit
greatest merit of Sir 11. Pottinger was that, with such a
observation of the Right Hon: Geritleman, the Member for people, and under such circumstances, he had brought matters
Devormort, and he hoped that if Hon. Members could t
of
be to a satisfactory and beneficial conclusion so soon.—( Hear,
held responsible for language used in the debates that hear.) He admitted the claim of the naval and military ser-
House, neither slionld they use those irritating and offensive\N vies s to the highest credit, but he did not think the great
epithet z—( Hoar, hear)—vs which gave unnecessary • '
out taking upon himself the task of acquittill7n.
tag Ltb- merits of Sir H. Pottinger, who directed all the movements,
nourable and Learned Member, he i
teetfolet 'that the In. were disparaged by that admission.—( Hear, hear.) And at
Io- the same time he would express his opinion that the pension
noureble and Learned Gentleman I t :
evones, ail reflect'
that observations were made hy Ides. not only on Fridawn, feel
ought to date from the day when the treaty was concluded.
Friday night., After a few words from Mr. WILLIAMS, in explanation,
but in other delep es, gee no
other occasions, upon the condeet of The question that 1,5001. per annum be granted to her Ma-
Irieli Alemnere, which the necessity os the case did not jesty, for the purpose of bestowing a pension upon Sir Henry
demand or justify. lie did not mean to say that the conduct
Pottinger, was agreed to.
of the Irish Members was jusefialele, on the contest
I view that L disposed to agree in the genera. they were not
yhe was The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be
acting brought up on Thursday
neat.
properly in abeenting themselves from Parliament. He did
IRIS ANKING BILL.
hope that whilst on the one hand the House would interfere On the order of thef
dayy or the third reading of this Bill,
effectually to prevent such pernicious conduct, lien. Members Sir R. PEEL said (as we understood, for the Right Hon.
would feel the propriety of acting in a roanner so as not to give Baronet spoke
annecessary offence, and with a view to maintain the ch •
. . erecter tinct tone)—that the two amendments which had been intro-
of that Honsc in the option of the public.—( Hear. hearse
The tipE,A kER then read the minute which led been duced into the Bill would, he believed, prove satisfactory.
One of these related to the averages, and the other to the
made on the books of the House containiesee the Offensive exn
pressions le.fore stated, and the aspoleeey of' the Hon. Member issues.' Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN rose to move the amendment of
for Sligo already mentioned,
had already stated his opi-
which he had given notice. He .
Sir W. SOME" VILLE expressed a hope that, after the ful
ris
1 nions of the measure, and he would not now occupy the House
erpl emple apology which had been made by his Honourable cessarily He thought that if the Government had eon-
Vsiend, the House would permit him ttl pass without further uenne - . - lof the Bans of Ireland,
censure. During the time that lee (Sir W. Somerville) had ndedt itself to. and
thetheofmonop y
links, the measure would. been in the House he ltesl never, known his Hon. Friend to h•setie
beenorequiringfusecuri y
1 but in the circumstances of Ireland to
use . have been fo4ily of a single offensive or unparliamentary expres •He would not
" • r-14'would be • •
e restrict the circulation
anon,—( ear, heat.
Mr. t it detain the House by the discussion of the general principles,
that ROEBUCK said, he had set out with stating th '
, but would proceed to move—
was not upon his own accurst he brought this matter for. " That it shall be lawful for any bank now existing in Ireland,
ward, but in melee to vindicate the privileges of that House and which was not a bank of issue on the 6th day of May, 1844,
—celessr, iwar ) —and therefore, when the House declared that to invest in the Government Three-and-a-Quarter per Cent.
its' privileges had been satisfied, it was far from his wish to Stock, any sum whatsoever, and transfer the same to the Com-
interfere, or throw any impediment in the warof the
matter mi,sioners far the Reduction of the National Debt, or such
being brought to a close. litlt should be doing an injustice other persons as the Lords of her Majesty's Treasury by war-
to himself if he hall nclailited nn any degee that charge which rasa under their hands and seals, small direct, to accept of such
had tlere uieste effainst him by the Right Hon. Gentletneres transfer ; and thereupon the said Commissioners for the Re-
the•ltlembee for bevonport. He had expressed asp eieinson, duction of the National Debt, or such other persons, shall
that the conduct of certain Irish 'Shemin.; w„ most
mis-
issue a certificate to such hank of the amount of stock so
chievous to the interests of the e'en:lite—be then used that transferred, and thereupon it shall and may be lawful for such
language, which acelneelelY described his own feelings and bank to issue their own promissory notes payable to bearer on
°Pini2,,st ' iii had done no more—he had a right to do demand, to the amount of such stock so transferred : Provided
i hat—he repeated it—what 1-1
—e
at he said was a .curately true. e
es always, that there shall not be a sum less than fifty thousand
language had been gentle and guarded—( Leughtee)—yea, pouride of such stock so transferred at any one time. And be it
gentle and guarded as compared with the toolonsage of others enacted, that in theeventof the said bank stopping payment, or be-
who spoke of that House avid it; :,,lentibers individually else- coming bankrupt, that such stock shall be held in trust for the
wh.re.—(l-I,ar, hits, ',.4 As, however, the privileges of the persons creditors of the said bank, who shall be holders of the
tietlL hd i, P -,,,,en vindicated, he would say no more on tke
seid promissory notes of the said bank, at the time of such
matter. That was all he aseed.
stoppage of eaymeot or failure: provided always, that the
Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN said the Hon. Member for Bath said bank shall be entitled to receive the half yearly dividends
had used insuleng language .to him, arid treeted him with payable on the said stock, until stoppage of payment or bank-
" perfect contem,i'•"—( Older, order. ruptey : provided also, that the said bank shall make returns
Thu SPEAKER sate iii' Hi,l. elernber for Limerick could of their issues of notes as the several banks of issue in Ireland
not refer to lamseege used in former debates at which he was not shall be bound to make such returns under this Act, and that
1 I'4
p 170444. in case the issue of such bank shall exceed, at any one time, the